View Full Version : [Deck] Vader
//Creatures - 16//
3 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen finks
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Dark Confidant
//Sorcery/Instant - 21//
4 Glittering Wish
3 Vindicate
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Sinkhole
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Duress
//Land - 22//
3 Scrubland
3 Savannah
4 Bayou
4 Fetid Marsh
2 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Plains
//-Sideboard-//
1 Vindicate
2 Maelstron Pulse
1 Mortify
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Crime // Punishment
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Loxodon Hierarch
I think you need some way to deal with the counterbalance player who floats a 3-drop on top.
Maybe Qasali Pridemage or an Aura Mutation so you can tutor it.
I took out pridemage for deed, Im not sure what to take out of SB, maybe Ill even lose the extirpates.
radioactive yak
08-04-2010, 04:59 AM
why are there no goyfs in the deck. Did you forget them? how do you win, your creatures are not efficient at reducing your opponents life to 0.
Darkenslight
08-04-2010, 12:12 PM
why are there no goyfs in the deck. Did you forget them? how do you win, your creatures are not efficient at reducing your opponents life to 0.
You win by making people's board explode. You don't need much more than that. :D
You win by making people's board explode. You don't need much more than that. :D
I think you might. Goyf is a pretty cool guy, I'd find room.
And if all those sweet perminant destuction spells are "all multicolor and 3cc", aren't Birds of Paradise/Hierarch better that STE (T2 3 mana vs T3 4 mana)?
alright, found goyfroom at the expense of finks and one confidant
Mystical_Jackass
08-04-2010, 01:19 PM
"Here's a Decklist..."
"...Peace"
How does this deck play out, I see a lot of cards at 3cmc? Why raven's crime... why not better discard that won't just have them discard their least favorite card, or loam, or reanimate target!? I see the synergy with Loam, but really.. you can't choose, therefore it's crap having 3.
I don't really think it's a solid build having a wish board... but half your wish board is just general "vindicate" cards that'r already in your deck. Would it not be better just to have more Bob, maybe Sensei's DT and just fix your draw>?
Well I thought it was pretty self evident how it plays out. It has an entire wishboard that you can get for GW, the best removal spells, and recursion via helix and witness. Now, raven's crime is good because both loam for recursion, and helix to constantly activate Vindicate/pulse.
martyr
08-04-2010, 08:25 PM
So aside from Helix + Raven's Crime, which is a fairly inefficient engine barring some really impressive acrobatics to set it up, I see a few problems with the deck.
You have a Rock-type maindeck with no real power outside of versatile targeted removal for three mana.
You have a Glittering Wish centric strategy with no direction, which means you've essentially thrown all your eggs into the game 1 basket, since there will be no really effective sideboarding. Using Glittering Wish as a tool to provide versatility is a cool idea, and could certainly be a feasible one, but you've got to ask yourself whether it can get things that completely hose common decks, and whether or not this is the correct vehicle for that package.
As to the first question, from your sideboard I see three truly relevant cards: Pernicious Deed, Gaddock Teeg, and Vexing Shusher. The rest is just a list of vaguely powerful, situationally good spells that you're wishing for mostly because the maindeck is so watered down from having not included them.
As to the second question, I really doubt that it is. Against aggro your creatures won't buy you a lot of time. Your removal might, but the vast majority of it is 1 for 1 trades, or 1 + 2 mana for 1 trades, or sweepers for 5+ mana. Against combo, barring Glittering Wish for Teeg backed up with land destruction (assuming the opponent really cares about his lands at all) you're dead in the water.
Glittering Wish seems like the kind of card you'd want in a control deck as a secondary package; something to provide support for your 4x Brainstorm 4x Whatever search engine, to give you access to a few cards that might completely shut down opposing decks game one, with one or two options for removal or card draw or whatever if you end up seeing more than one.
Or it could go in a combo deck to both provide answers and to give you redundancy, but most combo decks have better Wish or Tutor options than Glittering. Living, Burning, Cunning, Personal, Grim, etc, all get either better cards or don't require you to run white.
Maybe a Cadaverous Bloom build, with Glittering Wish for either the engine or something to shut down opposing decks, since you'd probably be pretty slow compared to other decks?
Back to the Helix thing, I really, really doubt you can get it to work without either a dedicated Life from the Loam type setup (and if you're doing that there are better ways to win anyway) or some sort of Intuition- or Gifts-based deck. I've tried it with the Vindicate thing, and the best I could do was using two mediocre cards to Vindicate something every turn or so, which is fine, but...well you might as well play Destructive Flow or Nicol Bolas or something instead if that's your goal. I think it's just a bit too roundabout to be effective.
Yah, I always sort of knew that helix was too delicate and clunky to work effectively in the back of my mind, but the draw of cool things i suppose. I am going to remove it, and raven's crime, and possibly even loam. I might just retool this into a 4/5 color control deck, but I'd like to see if this could be optimized first.
removed knight of the reliquary, since I just have one loam in the deck. Iniquisition added as duress 5
Michael Keller
08-18-2010, 11:31 AM
At any rate, Wasteland is just horrible in this deck to support the colors you're playing; you have nineteen cards (nearly thirty-two percent of your first sixty) in your main build with multiple colors in their cost. Birds of Paradise or not, they rarely stick enough to support a full set of colorless mana. I'd make the attempt to rework your deck to function without Wasteland and subsequently add Swords to Plowshares (which I'm trying to reason why it isn't here to begin with).
Also, Maelstrom Pulse works better as a sideboard solution against miscellaneous things like Goblin tokens from Empty the Warrens. If you're going to recur something with Eternal Witness, you'd be able to get Swords back and cast it much faster to hit creatures and you already have Qasali Pridemage to hit really whatever artifacts or enchantments you're having problems with.
Take a look at Life from the Loam: You have nothing really worth doing except creating a late-game soft-lock with Wasteland which would become more and more redundant when you need to generate creatures to win the game instead of (more than likely) milling yourself and leaving you with a bunch of fetches sitting in your hand and nothing else. Your goal shouldn't be to "hang in there" and hope the cuteness of Glittering Wish will save you when you need it; you should be wanting to win and win as fast as possible. If you really, truly want to run Wasteland and Life from the Loam with the large amount of multi-colored cards you play, try adding Riftstone Portal.
Crippling an opponent's resources is effective; no one is doubting that. But consider your creature suite and what you're ultimately trying to accomplish and determine the best possible choices for your toolbox sideboard and whether or not you want to change the color schematics of the entire deck (perhaps to support blue or red) to maybe broaden the spectrum of effectiveness for your choices. I just think you need to explain yourself a little better than tossing up a list and masturbating to your own work, because that is all it seems like you have done. Give us some information so we can help you.
what I am trying to do is use the best cards CA wise and CC wise and overwhelm my opponents with the most efficient destruction/removal and being able to tutor for any question or answer all the time. swords being absent was really just a mistake tbh.
thanks for the feedback btw, helped a lot. Through testing i've found that wasteland is too much of a strain, plus it anti-ramps me which is a hassle when I need to wish then cast in the same turn. Keep the comments coming, I am tough and strong and can take criticism
I removed the 2 extirpates from board, entire board is wishable now. 2 Shushers allows me to board one in if I need it, I am considered three in board, since countertop can be a huge bane to me. Criticism wanted
heroicraptor
08-24-2010, 04:08 PM
It's Rock with a slant towards using Glittering Wish.
It's Rock with a slant towards using Glittering Wish.
sure is
Mystical_Jackass
09-10-2010, 01:25 AM
Come on man, do you want critique or do you want attention?
I would take out the Sinkhole, since you are not running Waste. Go up to 4 Swords. Try to get 4 Pridemage, I would lose the Mortify and "vindicate" spells before cutting the cat, same with goyf.
what do you think about wastelands and 1 Loam?
Mystical_Jackass
09-10-2010, 01:17 PM
I think you're going to have serious color issues then. You don't run enough fetchlands too.
Quoting Hollywood:
At any rate, Wasteland is just horrible in this deck to support the colors you're playing; you have nineteen cards (nearly thirty-two percent of your first sixty) in your main build with multiple colors in their cost. Birds of Paradise or not, they rarely stick enough to support a full set of colorless mana. I'd make the attempt to rework your deck to function without Wasteland and subsequently add Swords to Plowshares (which I'm trying to reason why it isn't here to begin with).
@ Life from the Loam
Take a look at Life from the Loam: You have nothing really worth doing except creating a late-game soft-lock with Wasteland which would become more and more redundant when you need to generate creatures to win the game instead of (more than likely) milling yourself and leaving you with a bunch of fetches sitting in your hand and nothing else. Your goal shouldn't be to "hang in there" and hope the cuteness of Glittering Wish will save you when you need it; you should be wanting to win and win as fast as possible. If you really, truly want to run Wasteland and Life from the Loam with the large amount of multi-colored cards you play, try adding Riftstone Portal.
You should really reiterate exactly how you want this deck to play out. Obviously you want to use good cards, but what synergy are you going for and what sorta advantage are you trying to gain over some of the other decks in the format.
My first thought is that you should drop the :b:, and just run :g::w:. But if you want to keep Maelstrom, Vindicate, & Deed as wish targets, I'd cut the sinkholes and possibly even the discard for simplicity.
I'd go through your list and pick out the STAPLES. The cards that should not leave...
Staples
Quasali Pridemage
Tarmogoyf
Glimmering Wish
Swords to Plowshare
Then start to throw in cards that might suppliment, such as...
Eternal Witness
Kichen Finks
Troll Ascetic
Noble Heirarch
Birds of Paradise
Drop of Honey
Natural Order
Sylvan Library
Harmonize
etc
But play to your decks strengths. If you're deck wanted to play fast and win by tempo, I'd say go wastes but it doesn't play well with wish. I'd try using cards like drop of honey and swords to plowshare to stall your opponent and gain CA early game by letting them overcommit, then once the board is in your favor, use your wish & superior creatures to crush them. That's a general idea of one way you could play it. Mixing in card draw is important too, especially controlling your card draw so I tossed in Harmonize & Sylvan Library as options. I'd deffinitely consider at least 2x Horizon Canopy as well, I've used it a lot in my deck and it works amazing.
Well, what the point of the deck to is to create an insurmountable and constant loss of board position for the opponent, making it so they can't bring any sort of threat or coherent board together, so I think sinkhole is pretty important. the 5-duress is there to prevent combo from going off or control (FoW especially) from getting in the way of this.
I want to avoid mainboard artifacts and enchantments to get virtual CA from any maindeck removal they may have (enemy pridemage etc)
Mizeri
09-10-2010, 04:25 PM
It looks like alot crammed into a little space. Glittering wish lets you go alot of ways, doesn't mean you have to. Imo, Thoughtseize should be played over duress, then duress. Inquistion falls short too many times.. I built something that looked like this before, i liked Volrath's Stronghold. Sinkholes might wanna be hymns, keep doing what you're doing instead of changing speeds. A 4th confident, some tops, and a few tombstalkers and it wouldn't be bad. :P
Btw, 1st post? Thought i'd try to be constructive.
It looks like alot crammed into a little space. Glittering wish lets you go alot of ways, doesn't mean you have to. Imo, Thoughtseize should be played over duress, then duress. Inquistion falls short too many times.. I built something that looked like this before, i liked Volrath's Stronghold. Sinkholes might wanna be hymns, keep doing what you're doing instead of changing speeds. A 4th confident, some tops, and a few tombstalkers and it wouldn't be bad. :P
Btw, 1st post? Thought i'd try to be constructive.
Tombstalker+confidant is a huge nonbo, doesnt work well with witness either. And i chose not to use thoughtseize because of the heavy lifeloss I already incur from confidants.
Mizeri
09-10-2010, 07:24 PM
If you run top, you should only take at most 1 damage from confident?
to tha top. Cut putrefy mainboard for pridemage 3
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