Is Spikefeeder + Cauldron Haze an infinite life combo?

[jhhdk]

Title says it. Cards linked here for reference:
Spike feeder
Cauldron Haze

[Brad Herbig]

No. Once the Spike Feeder persists once, it no longer has persist. So you can do one cycle, but then Spike Feeder can't persist again unless you cast another Cauldron Haze.

[cdr]

Specifically, when an object changes zones it's a completely new object. Once the creature you targeted with Cauldron Haze leaves play once, it no longer has persist.

[Valtrix]

Oh yeah, sorry about that. I feel dumb. Reading cards is good. Although that makes me have another question. Are there any instant sorceries that will give your creatures that give your creatures an ability like persist (or say first strike or lifelink) for the turn, regardless if they were in play or not when that instant or sorcery was cast? Or, are all of these types of cards worded with "gain" such that it will only affect creatures currently in play?

[luma]

611.2c. If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won't change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn't modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren't affected when that continuous effect began.

Example: An effect that reads "All white creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn" gives the bonus to all permanents that are white creatures when the spell or ability resolves--even if they change color later--and doesn't affect those that enter the battlefield or turn white afterward.

Example: An effect that reads "Prevent all damage creatures would deal this turn" doesn't modify any object's characteristics, so it's modifying the rules of the game. That means the effect will apply even to damage from creatures that weren't on the battlefield when the continuous effect began. It also affects damage from permanents that become creatures later in the turn.

A continuous effect from a spell or ability that gives creatures an ability modifies their characteristics, so only creatures that are on the battlefield when the spell resolves are affected.

[cdr]

Are there any instant sorceries that will give your creatures that give your creatures an ability like persist (or say first strike or lifelink) for the turn, regardless if they were in play or not when that instant or sorcery was cast? Or, are all of these types of cards worded with "gain" such that it will only affect creatures currently in play?

Continuous effects can occur on both spells/abilities and on permanents, but the set of objects a continuous effect from a spell/ability affects is locked in as the spell/ability resolves and the effect begins. Look at Burst of Speed versus Fervor (and ignore the irrelevant "until end of turn"). This is one of the reasons they came up with Emblems.

[DarthVicious]

Continuous effects can occur on both spells/abilities and on permanents, but the set of objects a continuous effect from a spell/ability affects is locked in as the spell/ability resolves and the effect begins. Look at Burst of Speed versus Fervor (and ignore the irrelevant "until end of turn"). This is one of the reasons they came up with Emblems.

Elspeth's ultimate ability is the only thing I can think of. It grants indestructibility to permanents that came into play after the ability itself is played. I believe it generates an Emblem that says the affected permanents are indestructible, as opposed to an Emblem that says they gain indestructibility. The former affects cards played after the ability, the latter only affects cards in play when the ability is played.

As far as Spike Feeder & Cauldron Haze, you'd be better off with Cauldron of Souls and some way to untap it when a creature enters/leaves play. An idea for another thread.

[jrsthethird]

I believe it generates an Emblem that says the affected permanents are indestructible, as opposed to an Emblem that says they gain indestructibility.

Except no cards in Magic contain the word 'indestructibility' in their Oracle text. The template for the ability is always "[relevant permanent] is indestructibile".

[DarthVicious]

Except no cards in Magic contain the word 'indestructibility' in their Oracle text. The template for the ability is always "[relevant permanent] is indestructibile".

True. If I had used flying it'd probably illustrate my point better.
A card that says 'Creatures you control have flying' will affect creatures that enter play after you play that effect (like discarding Wonder, or that enchantment I can't think of). A card that says 'Creatures you control gain flying' will only affect creatures in play at that time (usually instant speed until-end-of-turn effects).

[luma]

True. If I had used flying it'd probably illustrate my point better.
A card that says 'Creatures you control have flying' will affect creatures that enter play after you play that effect (like discarding Wonder, or that enchantment I can't think of). A card that says 'Creatures you control gain flying' will only affect creatures in play at that time (usually instant speed until-end-of-turn effects).

While this is true (because all such effects from static abilities are worded with "have" and one-shot effects with "gain"), it's because of the rules, not the choice of word that it works that way.

If you have a static ability giving the abilities (such as from an enchantment or an emblem), the effect will always apply to all creatures you control, regardless of whether you controlled them when the effect was created. Likewise, if the effect is created by resolving a spell or ability (and it changes the characteristics of objects), it will only apply to objects that existed when the effect was created. It wouldn't matter if "have" or "gain" was used.



611.2. A continuous effect may be generated by the resolution of a spell or ability.
--
611.2c. If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won't change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn't modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren't affected when that continuous effect began.

611.3. A continuous effect may be generated by the static ability of an object.

611.3a. A continuous effect generated by a static ability isn't "locked in"; it applies at any given moment to whatever its text indicates.