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swarm187
08-19-2010, 04:51 PM
Hey everyone,
I have been playing Bant Survival for some time now, and after GP Columbus, I was looking to build a "fun" Legacy deck to tool around with...in other words, a pet deck.
I struck out to build something that is rooted in aggro strategies, as that appeals to me as a Magic player. That being said, I was looking for a deck that's more subtle and strategy-based than, say, Goblins. The best example I came across for this type of strategy was Zoo.
While I like that deck a lot, I didn't want to just throw a tournament ready deck together as a "fun" build. I wanted to challenge myself to build a deck out of the colors I wasn't currently playing in Bant Survival. That left me with black and red, which gave me solid options when it comes to Legacy staples and playable cards.
Knowing the strategy (aggro) that I wanted to shoot for, as well as the colors (black & red), I started tooling around with different synergies and card choices. The following is the list I've come up with:

Dark Zoo:
4x Dark Confidant
3x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Arrogant Bloodlord
4x Grim Lavamancer
3x Hellspark Elemental

3x Terminate
4x Snuff Out
4x Lightning Bolt

3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Mox Diamond
4x Aether Vial

4x Badlands
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wasteland
5x Swamp
4x Mountain


Again, this deck is based on the Zoo philosophy of laying cheap creatures that are bigger than your opponent's, faster than they can deal with them, while having spot removal in your hand.
This deck is extremely efficient at putting guys on the board and turning them sideways. Vampire Nighthawk and Arrogant Bloodlord are very strong early on, especially when coupled with a turn 1 or 2 Hellspark Elemental.
The real star of this deck is Aether Vial, for obvious reasons. The ability to lay down several threats during one turn is critical to a deck like this, but it's also extremely important to leave mana open for defensive/reactive spot removal. Vial helps in both of those respects.

The current sideboard, while not a firm list, contains more answers/removal. Here's what I have so far:

3x Engineered Plague
3x Shattering Spree
3x Diabolic Edict
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Volcanic Fallout

I've thought about throwing the Dark Depths/Hexmage combo in the sideboard as an alternate win-con in games 2 and 3, but it just takes up too much space.

This deck is a work in progress for sure, and like I said, it isn't meant to be Tier 1. I am, however, looking for help and suggestions to make it as optimal as it can be. Please feel free to post feedback or card suggestions if they come to you.

Thanks!

Gheizen64
08-19-2010, 05:24 PM
No protection from combo and Vial (on 17 creatures? you should run 20+ for vial imho) + Mox seems like odd choices to me. Lavamancer is also a fantastic sideboard card against Merfolk and goblin, but does little in other matchups.

kusumoto
08-19-2010, 05:28 PM
21 lands doesn't seem like enough for 4 mox diamonds.

Other than that, I can't make many more suggestions.

I look at that list and want it to be TMWA, but I guess that's a fairly different strategy.

I like the Bloodlord though. Seems fun.

Phoenix Ignition
08-19-2010, 06:47 PM
Arrogant Bloodlord just seems bad in Legacy right now. I get that you can burn all the small creatures off that would block him but that's not a good use of burn really since there are utility creatures in every relevant deck that you would face, and against combo and friends they just don't care.

justjake54
08-19-2010, 08:00 PM
Yeah, I agree. He definitely seems interesting but it seems like you'd be lucky to get any damage through with him against any goblin or merfolk deck. not to mention noble heirarch or tokens from bitterblossom. But I definitely am intrigued by the idea of this deck.

mujadaddy
08-19-2010, 09:22 PM
Bloodlord is sub-par. You're missing something else rather important, too...

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Bitterblossom
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thoughtseize
2 Terminate
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Taiga
4 Badlands
1 Bayou

//Sideboard
4 Extirpate
4 Innocent Blood
4 Krosan Grip
3 Pernicious Deed


...just beat Vengevine Survival 2-0 on MWS. Game 1 was epic -- t1 Heirarch meets Thoughtseize for his Survival. He dazes my Bitterblossom, then Forces a second 'blossom, beating me with the Heirarch. I Terminate the Heirarch and waste his Trop, putting him on a lone basic Island for a while (He had Wasted my initial fetched Badlands). Several turns of nothing, but I cast a Jitte (and draw a second), and Thoughtseize him for something-or-other, then a Tarmogoyf gets the Jitte, but he casts a mongrel & discards 2 Vengevines. uh oh. Then madness's 2 Rootwallas, and the gang's all here, but Tarmogoyf is 5/6. He attacks into me with the Vines, losing one, jitte+=2; Terminate the second Vine and both jitte counters on Mongrel, and he's out of cards. Tarmogoyf starts Jitte'ing, and two turns later he concedes.

Game 2, I sideboarded into an Extirpate and he didn't side at all, and hadn't expected me to, and conceded after I played it on his Vines.

makochman
08-21-2010, 03:43 PM
'Dark Zoo' is an odd name for B/R aggro...
I've been meaning to put together something similar once I buy the duals, here's a rough list:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Goblin Guide
3-4 Tombstalker
3 Vampire Nighthawk
0-2 Grim Lavamancer

2 Diabolic Edict
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Terminate

2-4 Chain Lightning
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach

0-2 Sensei's Divining Top

Manabase: 20-21 land

The idea is that you play the burn and discard as fast as possible to fuel a Tombstalker. Magma Jet should help you manage the hurt from Dark Confidant.

I don't think you need Mox Diamond or Aether Vial. Snuff Out seems too costly in a list that runs Dark Confidant, as it can potentially cost you 8 life. (And yes, Tombstalker can do the same - but it has a greater impact on the game, and anyway you should never have problems killing creatures cheaply with a B/R deck.)

swarm187
08-24-2010, 04:44 PM
Arrogant Bloodlord was my first stab at an aggressively priced black beater. After playing with it a little bit, I have to agree that he might not be the best option. I've looked into different options and found cards like Barrow Ghoul, Goblin Deathraider, Ashenmoor Gouger, and Shambling Remains that fit the bill. I'm just not sure if any of the drawbacks are worth the slots. I'm looking for legitimate 4 power for a CMC of 2 to optimize the Aether Vial gameplan.

makochman- I really like the idea of Goblin Guide. That seems like a very strong 1 drop critter to give me more options. The only problem is, he's the third choice if I draw him in the same hand as Vial and Lavamancer. Also, I called it Dark Zoo because, like normal Zoo builds, I'm trying to use aggressively cheap creatures and Grim Lavamancer to overwhelm the board. Coupled with spot removal and some silver bullets, that's what makes a Zoo deck work.

mujadaddy- the point of this deck, for me at least, is to stay in the BR color scheme. While Goyf and Deed are great cards, and powerful additions to this deck, I wanted to try to build it within two colors.

I've also forgotten one of the best creatures red has to offer in a deck like this; Keldon Marauders. I'm currently revising the list and I'll have it up before the end of the week. Thanks for the suggestions!

keys
08-24-2010, 04:51 PM
I was under the impression "Dark Zoo" was Zoo with a black splash for Dark Confidant. This looks like R/b Suicide aka "Red Death", which used to have its own thread.

Shtriga
08-24-2010, 06:56 PM
For the past couple of years I have got rid of most of my collection, but kept my pet deck to play casually with a couple of buddies. It lacks the Vial engine that yours features, but still shares the philosophy of the deck. This is my list:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Phyrexian Negator
2 Tombstalker

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach

3 Terminate
4 Seal of Fire
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
1 Incinerate

21 lands

I have been trying to replace the shades forever,I'm not totally sold on them. I have tried Lavamancer, Goblin Guide, Nighthawk, more Tombstalkers, Keldon Marauders, Mishra's Factories (!), Ashenmoor Gouger, Kiln Fiend, etc etc etc... but at the end of the day, I still go back to Shade, even if reluctantly. All the others have their own issues, some much bigger than spending my mana on shade. I hope one day I can replace them.

Some debatable card choices maybe (Negator, Seal, Duress), but there is a reason for my choice on those. Negator can be very good in an environment with no burn spells and where I have a large amount of removal (such as this deck), and also because it's a pet card of mine, even if it sucks sometimes. Seal because I can play them and not have to keep mana open to kill a small creature (and acting as a deterrant, since if I play one proactively my opponent sometimes won't play their utility x/1 or x/2 creatures right away). And Duress because I don't really need to remove creatures with Thoughtseize with all my removal, and the lifeloss matters sometimes with Bob (and because I don't own any anymore).

Looking forward to see your new and improved list!

Loxodon Baileyarch
08-24-2010, 07:06 PM
I'd go Jund colors, and if not then I would just play Zoo with the B splash. It just seems better.

jrsthethird
08-24-2010, 08:48 PM
No Ashenmoor Gouger? Seems a lot better than Bloodlord since it doesn't trade with Steppe Lynx.

troopatroop
08-24-2010, 10:35 PM
Mox Diamond, Aether Vial, AND Sensei's divining top in the same deck? That seems weak.