doomsday pile help

[Catitas]

hi gyus i'm trying to play with this list but most of the times i don't know whats the piles for doomsday. If anyone nows i would apreciate the help.

creature [2]
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Street Wraith
instant [15]
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Orim's Chant
sorcery [17]
4 Doomsday
3 Duress
1 Ideas Unbound
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony
artifact [9]
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
land [17]
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
60 cards

[citanul]

https://docs.google.com/View?id=d3hxs7m_16cr3v59c9

You're welcome.

[ramanujan]

I don't know how much that doc will help as the piles that he will be constructing will use Ideas Unbound. For what it is worth, you should be looking in the storm boards as there are a variety of people that are actively working on those piles there. I can point out a few piles that will be helpful here though. In addition, this should be posted in the Fetchland Tendrils thread as that is where people have been doing work on this deck for this site.

Divining top in play
-> IU, LED, LED, Ponder, ToA
BBB+1UU (6)
8 Storm

-> IU, LED, LED, SDT, ToA
BBB+3UU (8)
9+ Storm

Divining Top in play + 1 card in hand
BS, LED, IU, LED, ToA
BBB+2U (6)
Storm 8

Brainstorm or Ponder
-> IU, SW, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+UUU (6)
6 Storm

-> IU, SDT, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+1UUU (7)
7 Storm

Two Tops in Play
-> LED, IU, LED, ToA, ---
BBB+2 (5)
6+ Storm

-> IU, LP, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+UU (5)
8+ Storm

-> IU, LED, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+1UU (5)
11+ Storm

2 of Brainstorm or Ponder
-> LED, IU, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+UU (4)
8 Storm

There are several more which are "corner cases" which can be made with more cantrips available, pass the turn strategies, and chain of vapor. Several of the piles that can be created can produce more storm with burning wish if you decide to go that route. The piles which do not use meditate in the document listed above will be of use for you as well.

I would advise learning about 15 piles really well that are common, then experimenting from there. For example, although it may not come in handy often, I have been working on a pile or two that can signal Emrakul and then finish with storm for twenty dammage. Of course, you need a Lion's eye diamond and lotus petal in hand, and a few land on the board for it to work. These piles are not ready for any list yet because I don't know how often, if ever, I will need them.

The point is that you should practice, use flash cards, and then learn to see Doomsday stacks as having casting costs (in terms of cards in hand, storm count going in to Doomsday, mana available, tops available, ect) in exchange for wins. Make no mistake the deck is extremely demanding of the pilot. The hardest thing that I have found to do with this deck is play it and still focus on playing good Magic (avoiding tells, and other non Doomsday stack related stuff... ), not just good calculations. Don't forget that Doomsday is not your only engine, ll Gotten Gains can win the game on its own with the right rituals and infernal tutors.

I would highly advocate dropping the cabal rituals in favor of more lotus petals as they are generally better for the deck according to a reputable source on the storm boards and my own personal experience.

-Peace

[Jeff Kruchkow]

1) It sounds like you're picking doomsday as your first combo deck. Not to disuade you, but you'd have a much easier time starting with like 3c TES and then going to DDay.

2) You should run meditate. Seriously, it makes so many piles so much easier.

[ramanujan]

"2) You should run meditate. Seriously, it makes so many piles so much easier. "

I would like to see you flesh out that comment. The comparison that I have seen put a good edge to Ideas Unbound.

[Catitas]

Thanks alot ramanujan and its not the first combo deck i played Jeff Kruchkow i've played adnauseam until the mystical tutor banned

[Oiolosse]

Damn, never tried to play DD, but after reading this I think that if Ramanujan can, nobody can.

[Azdraël]

"2) You should run meditate. Seriously, it makes so many piles so much easier. "



IU enables more piles with less mana requirement. IU> Meditate.

[kiwi]

Why has this deck list 1 Street Wraith ?

[Azdraël]

Cuz it enables some good DD piles dude!

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Divining top in play
-> IU, LED, LED, Ponder, ToA
BBB+1UU (6)
8 Storm

-> IU, LED, LED, SDT, ToA
BBB+3UU (8)
9+ Storm

Meditate has the same requirements for pile 1 and less mana for pile 2 if you use the Meditate/Led/Led/Petal/Tendrils or Wish Pile


Divining Top in play + 1 card in hand
BS, LED, IU, LED, ToA
BBB+2U (6)
Storm 8

Meditate wins here without a card in hand with that mana.


Brainstorm or Ponder
-> IU, SW, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+UUU (6)
6 Storm

-> IU, SDT, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+1UUU (7)
7 Storm

Pile 1 Ideas is better but for one more mana you can make a meditate pile
Pile 2 can be done just as well by Meditate.


Two Tops in Play
-> LED, IU, LED, ToA, ---
BBB+2 (5)
6+ Storm

-> IU, LP, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+UU (5)
8+ Storm

-> IU, LED, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+1UU (5)
11+ Storm

Pile 1 Can be done with Meditate just as well.
LED/Meditate/LED/LED/Tendrils

Piles 2 and 3 are both good for IU, although I might be missing a Meditate equivalent, which I probably am


2 of Brainstorm or Ponder
-> LED, IU, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+U (4)
8 Storm

Explain to me how this piles works?

Im not arguing against IU with this, I think its good in DDay especially if you run Wish to make it a Wishable Meditate. All I'm saying is that meditate opens up a ton of easier/more powerful piles by having it in the deck.

[Pulp_Fiction]

@Jeff: Just don't try at all. The information is easily available and most people look at the deck and think "mmmm, combo, Doomsday Emrakul, I got this". They then become frustrated when they can't figure the deck out and tweak it to fit their playstyle even though they have no idea what they are tweaking and just make it suck. Later they complain that the deck sucks and ANT is better, etc.

Bottom line, if u want to play Doomsday u have to put in the hours of goldfishing. The dude that created this thread has played ANT before ... awesome, I played Zoo, the Saito lists require about the same skill level. That means nothing, this is totally different. If u aren't willing to read all the articles AND some of the FT thread, then put in hours of goldfishing practice don't post about DD again. There is no cheap and easy way to learn how the shit works. U already like Ideas Unbound better .... cool, Meditate is far superior. Enables more piles, that have better storm, and minimal mana requirements. Read everything u can then goldfish, thats how u play this deck, starting a thread asking advice when there is a ton of information about DD out there ... already shows u will be playing Goblins sooner than later.

EDIT: @catitas: Do u even know what the IGG loop is?

[ramanujan]

Edited the last pile, must not have copied it correctly. It should require another blue mana. Anyway, I have no desire to try to prove that Ideas Unbound is better. In truth, there are situations where meditate is better and situation where Ideas Unbound is better. I believe that Ideas Unbound is better in the long run. Feel free to disagree. I think in the end we all agree that this deck is off the charts in difficulty. It is certainly not a deck that can be picked up on a random afternoon and then mastered. However, it is rewarding. I am certain that there is quite a bit more undiscovered Magic in the deck just waiting to be found by someone willing to put in the time.

[Azdraël]

Edited the last pile, must not have copied it correctly. It should require another blue mana. Anyway, I have no desire to try to prove that Ideas Unbound is better. In truth, there are situations where meditate is better and situation where Ideas Unbound is better. I believe that Ideas Unbound is better in the long run. Feel free to disagree. I think in the end we all agree that this deck is off the charts in difficulty. It is certainly not a deck that can be picked up on a random afternoon and then mastered. However, it is rewarding. I am certain that there is quite a bit more undiscovered Magic in the deck just waiting to be found by someone willing to put in the time.

+1
+ IU offers more situation to combo with less mana. No discussion. Proof is, lots of Meditate piles can be done with IU and with the same amount of mana. But you cannot do piles with BBB + 1U with Meditate as consistent as with IU.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Edited the last pile, must not have copied it correctly. It should require another blue mana. Anyway, I have no desire to try to prove that Ideas Unbound is better. In truth, there are situations where meditate is better and situation where Ideas Unbound is better. I believe that Ideas Unbound is better in the long run. Feel free to disagree. I think in the end we all agree that this deck is off the charts in difficulty. It is certainly not a deck that can be picked up on a random afternoon and then mastered. However, it is rewarding. I am certain that there is quite a bit more undiscovered Magic in the deck just waiting to be found by someone willing to put in the time.

The last pile still doesnt work.

[Azdraël]

2 of Brainstorm or Ponder
-> LED, IU, LED, LED, ToA
BBB+U (4)
8 Storm

the only efficient pile I know with Double Cantrip is:

LED IU LP DR TOA
BBB + UU
8 Storm

here is a god IU pile with less required mana ;)

[rufus]

I wonder if EOT Insidious Dreams is an avenue worth exploring. Also Cloud of Faeries seems like slick doomsday tech, sensei/sensei piles with Helm of Awakening don't seem that hard.

[Azdraël]

Cost one more than DD?
Need to discard some cards in order to pile up whereas you often need some extras cards for the post DD pile to work?
no dude, really, never, ever.

[emidln]

You people are missing this pile which cannot be replicated for Meditate at the same mana:

SDT in play + 1UUU

IU
LED
CoV
LED
ToA

This deals with troublesome enchantments and/or hatebears while still making a lot of storm. This costs 4 mana post-DD. The only similar piles with Meditate for enchantment hate involve Reverent Silence or more mana (5 vs 4).

If you allow cards in hand, you can get this spicy number:

SDT + 1 of the first four (removing it from the pile to make 5 cards) + 1UUU

IU
LED
LED
CoV
------
Ponder/SDT
Tendrils

This gets you 18 lifeloss from Doomsday on, doesn't use the graveyard, only requires 1 land in play to get the lifeloss, and with 2 lands nets lifeloss AND bounce an enemy permanent.

The 18 lifeloss alone is something Meditate won't do without using the graveyard for 4 mana.

Meditate has its place. It's very good against traditional control decks because of its added value in setup. IU is far better against most aggro decks due to ability to efficient deal with Teeg/white Leyline and is much better setup since its in effect, a deeper careful study.

FWIW, many of the IU players run Infernal Contract in the sideboard to get the easy Draw4 Discard or IGG piles while sidestepping Spell Snare and REB.

As always, the best resource for information on Doomsday piles is the Doomsday Piles thread on storm boards. This includes information about the classic piles that cheeseburger and I wrote, as well as double doomsday, doomsday->igg->doomsday, IU, Chain of Vapor, H.Recall, and other interesting piles that are the bread and butter of a successful doomsday pilot.