Interaction between LED, Basking Rootwalla and Vengevine

[Philipp2293]

Hi, my question is if I have a LED in play and 2 Rootwallas and 1 Vengevine in hand and then crack the LED, does it work out that I play the Rootwallas (for madness cost) and also return the Vengevine from the grave, or is this not possible for some reason?

[Malchar]

702.32. Madness

702.32a Madness is a keyword that represents two abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with madness is in a player’s hand. The second is a triggered ability that functions when the first ability is applied. “Madness [cost]” means “If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but may exile it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard” and “When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesn’t, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard.”

702.32b Casting a spell using its madness ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e–g.


It should work because the madness ability doesn't even let you play the rootwallas until after they've been exiled. Basically, the rootwallas get exiled at the same time that the Vengevine goes to the graveyard. Then, the madness ability triggers and allows you to cast the rootwallas. When you cast the second one, Vengevine's ability will trigger.

[luma]

Yes, it works. Everything is discarded at the same time (Vengevine goes to graveyard and Rootwallas are exiled by Madness). Then Madness triggers and lets you cast the Rootwallas, so Vengevine is in the graveyard when you cast the Rootwallas, and you get to return Vengevine to the battlefield.

[DarthVicious]

So you get the LED mana before the madness trigger resolves? That's the only part I'm confused about. I thought madness went on the stack when you paid LED's cost, and the madness trigger resolved before you get the mana from LED.

My question isn't really applicable to the Rootwalla, his madness cost is 0. I'm thinking more along the lines of Obsessive Search, and others with a mana cost attached to their madness.

[luma]

With a regular ability, it would work that way (you have to pay for madness before the activated ability resolves), but LED has a mana ability, which resolves instantly without using the stack. Triggered abilities go on the stack when a player would receive priority, but because no one gets priority between activating and resolving a mana ability, the madness trigger is put on the stack after LED's ability resolves and you already have the mana by then.