[article] Tendrils v. Merfolk

[frogboy]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/20020_Ideas_Unbound_The_TendrilsMerfolk_Matchup.html

I wrote about the Tendrils/Merfolk matchup, using the lists of Saito, Bryant Cook, and Ari Lax.

[alderon666]

I must suck then, because I lose to Merfolk with TES all the time!

People just keep getting got hands against me!

Merfolk is the 1-of deck. If it get exactly 1-of each of its cards it's unbeatable. I'm never lucky enough that my opponent keeps FoW + land and creatures and is stone cold to a Duress. And sometimes I just feel like I can't beat taxing effects, Wasteland + Cursecatcher + Daze + Spell Pierce are just too good against a deck that basicly replaces lands with rituals.

[AriLax]

He is right. Storm isn't as massive of a favorite as it is against something like Zoo, but it is still pretty favored. The main way for my list to lose at least is them drawing multiple Forces + a good clock and me not getting the second Duress in time.

[ramanujan]

Really enjoyed the article. This article is more relevent for me than most as my meta is about half Merfolk. I have Doomsday experience but sometimes I want to play a Tendrils list that is faster. I think I will build the Ari Lax version as it seems to get the most value from Cabal Rituals (More fetches and cantrips) and I enjoy having a higher number of basic lands.

[median]

One thing I want to point out, that Max didn't elaborate on, was that while T.E.S. Has a weaker land base, it also has more non land mana, namely chrome mox, that aren't susceptible to basic hate. It also plays through daze/spell pierce easily with these.

I hadn't seen ari's list before the article and thought it was extremely innovative.

Great read.

[Bahamuth]

I hadn't seen ari's list before the article and thought it was extremely innovative.



It's old ANT with Preordain instead of MT and 2 bad tutors...

[LostButSeeking]

"Though Ill-Gotten Gains is commonly derided for being atrocious if your opponent has Force of Will, if your opponent only has a single Force of Will, you can generate extra mana and include a Duress in your post-Gains hand to deal with the Force. "

This seems pretty wrong. I tried for twenty minutes to think of a situation where IGG would be the right play vs. Folk (when they have a force of will that you duressed into the yard) and couldn't manage it. I tried really complicated you-need-more-storm-to-go-off situations, but by that point I was (by necessity) at ten mana before going for IGG, and you needed Infernal tutor and burning wish in hand, and I'm certain there are better plans of attack than IGG there.

[Rune]

"Though Ill-Gotten Gains is commonly derided for being atrocious if your opponent has Force of Will, if your opponent only has a single Force of Will, you can generate extra mana and include a Duress in your post-Gains hand to deal with the Force. "

This seems pretty wrong. I tried for twenty minutes to think of a situation where IGG would be the right play vs. Folk (when they have a force of will that you duressed into the yard) and couldn't manage it. I tried really complicated you-need-more-storm-to-go-off situations, but by that point I was (by necessity) at ten mana before going for IGG, and you needed Infernal tutor and burning wish in hand, and I'm certain there are better plans of attack than IGG there.

Sometimes it's actually the best/only line of play that comes up. Have done it a few times, but it's not very common.

[AriLax]

"Though Ill-Gotten Gains is commonly derided for being atrocious if your opponent has Force of Will, if your opponent only has a single Force of Will, you can generate extra mana and include a Duress in your post-Gains hand to deal with the Force. "

This seems pretty wrong. I tried for twenty minutes to think of a situation where IGG would be the right play vs. Folk (when they have a force of will that you duressed into the yard) and couldn't manage it. I tried really complicated you-need-more-storm-to-go-off situations, but by that point I was (by necessity) at ten mana before going for IGG, and you needed Infernal tutor and burning wish in hand, and I'm certain there are better plans of attack than IGG there.

In the UB build scenarios come up if you mulligan or need to go off before casting all of your cantrips and don't want to risk not hitting a ritual where you may be 1-2 storm off of a Tutor chain but can IGG. This is especially relevant around turn 4, where your life total is too low to Ad Nauseum. There are also scenarios where IGG beats a Daze but a Tutor chain does not.

[LostButSeeking]

"Though Ill-Gotten Gains is commonly derided for being atrocious if your opponent has Force of Will, if your opponent only has a single Force of Will, you can generate extra mana and include a Duress in your post-Gains hand to deal with the Force. "


In the UB build scenarios come up if you mulligan or need to go off before casting all of your cantrips and don't want to risk not hitting a ritual where you may be 1-2 storm off of a Tutor chain but can IGG. This is especially relevant around turn 4, where your life total is too low to Ad Nauseum. There are also scenarios where IGG beats a Daze but a Tutor chain does not.


Sometimes it's actually the best/only line of play that comes up. Have done it a few times, but it's not very common.

But you're not netting MANA, which is what the article says. If you include a duress in the IGG pile, there's no way you can come out with more mana than you started with, and are going to have a damned difficult time tutoring for a kill after the IGG in any case.

[4eak]

Thanks for the article. As usual, I enjoyed reading what you had to say.

I think you should have emphasized (stronger than you did) the differences in skill curves and caps of both decks to give more context to your conclusions. In my experience, for the vast majority of people reading your article, Merfolk is usually going to be favored against both Storm decks.

As a small sidenote, I think Merfolk can be built much better as an attempted metagame foil to Storm, but it requires cards which generally aren't amazing against the rest of Legacy, and it still isn't going to make Storm brokenly in Merfolk's favor (which is what I expect a true foil to accomplish).




peace,
4eak

[frogboy]

But you're not netting MANA, which is what the article says. If you include a duress in the IGG pile, there's no way you can come out with more mana than you started with, and are going to have a damned difficult time tutoring for a kill after the IGG in any case.

Er, you generate more mana before casting IGG, so that you can afford to get back and cast Duress. Sorry for being unclear.