View Full Version : Dreadstill Article and Tournament Report
The Atog Lord
09-16-2010, 11:41 AM
This article outlines my recent experience with Dreadstill. I recall the process of tuning the deck for different metagames, and give a report for a recent tournament report. It might be of interested to you, especially if you plan to attend the upcoming Star City 5K tournament.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/extended/20086_Whats_Peacekeeper_Do_First_Place_With_Ubw_Dreadstill.html
AngryTroll
09-16-2010, 01:23 PM
This article outlines my recent experience with Dreadstill. I recall the process of tuning the deck for different metagames, and give a report for a recent tournament report. It might be of interested to you, especially if you plan to attend the upcoming Star City 5K tournament.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/extended/20086_Whats_Peacekeeper_Do_First_Place_With_Ubw_Dreadstill.html
I really liked this article, and I thought the list was very interesting. I really like the board, with Perishes, Peacekeepers, and Spell Pierces. I have two questions for you:
How did you arrive at a configuration of 3 Dark Confidant, 3 Standstill, and 3 Counterbalance? You always seemed very happy with Bob, and I'm always a fan of the full set of 4 Counterbalances in the maindeck.
I'm also curious about the 2 Daze and 2 Spell Snare main. Did you find this to be the right number, or would you adjust it in the future?
The Atog Lord
09-16-2010, 01:31 PM
Excellent questions. 3 Bob and 3 Standstill has played nicely. They are both somewhat situational, but this has in testing and tournament play shown itself to be a good mix. The Daze/Snare configuration is entirely a function of the metagame. If you expect that a different suite of permission or removal spells better fits your expectations, by all means proceed with those cards. As for the fourth Counterbalance, I dislike them in the Merfolk and Goblin matchup; if you don't expect many of these, by all means run four.
Great article. Peacekeeper seems like really hott tech at the moment. Is Confidant worth the slots? To me it seems like a card that only solidifies matchups that are already in your favor.
Rico Suave
09-17-2010, 06:02 PM
To add some clarity, this deck does appear to have some "fuzzy numbers" at first glance.
Why 3 Standstill and 3 Dark Confidant? Why not a split of 4 and 2? How can 3 Counterbalance be correct? Why 2 and 2 of Spell Snare and Daze? In many ways it looks poorly constructed.
For starters, there is a lot to be said about variety. Drawing a combination of Dark Confidant, Standstill, Spell Snare, and Daze together will give us a wider array of options than if we were to have 2 Standstill and 2 Spell Snare. If our opponent is strong in one area, options allow us to attack him where he is weak. If we in a defensive position, options allow us to play out of it. Now, there does reach a point where this comes with a price. We don't want to play weak cards just so that we have more options. But I don't think anybody can fault this deck for running weak cards. It is full of cards that are quite good.
It is pretty clear that the correct number of slots that draw cards is right around 6. This could be any combination of 4/2, 3/3, or 2/4 with Standstills and Bobs. If you feel that running one combination is better than the others, then by all means play it. One reason to play 3/3 is because it easies sideboarding issues, such as when boarding out Standstill against Merfolk. Another reason is because Standstill is quite good against a deck like Zoo, so it may be sketchy to play only 2 for that match-up. In short, 3/3 feels right given the current metagame.
Why 2 Spell Snare and 2 Daze? Well, put simply we don't want to draw multiples of either one. Drawing 1 Daze is fine, drawing a hand without Daze is OK too, but we really don't want to have 2 Dazes in most situations - especially if our aim is to cast Jace. Spell Snare is another card we generally don't want to see in multiples, because if the first one is still sitting in our hand then we're going to be even less excited about the second one. There is also sideboarding to consider in that sometimes one counterspell may be weak while the other is useful, such as in a post-SB game where Spell Snare is much better than Daze when on the draw. It's important to maintain a certain threshold of early game countermagic, and 4 Force + 2 Snare feels much better on the draw than 4 Force + 2 Daze, or even worse just 4 Force.
3 Counterbalance is probably the most controversial slot. But to understand why to play 3 CB, it's important to understand what this deck does. If nothing else Dreadstill is a deck that wants to draw a lot of cards. Between Standstill and Brainstorm and Top and Bob, this deck will see a lot of cards and as a result it will feel like it's running more than just 3 CB. There is another important aspect in regards to CB/Top, which as a combo isn't *too* reliable until around turn 3 or 4 when we have cast both pieces and have mana up to make use of it anyway. As such, rushing for a turn 2 CB is fine and all but not that strong. Thus, we don't really want to see CB in our opening hand. If we spend our first 1-3 turns drawing cards, however, we are likely to have found a CB by the time we enter turns 3-4 at which point we can play CB and get immediate use out of it. There are 3 other things that affect CB in this deck:
1) The blue mana is lighter than other CB decks, because of the use of Waste/Factory. Getting UU up by turn 2 is more difficult than other CB decks
2) Drawing multiple CB is often fruitless
3) CB as a card is not too strong against certain strategies, such as Merfolk and Goblins
With all this in mind, it is tough to justify a 4th CB given that pretty much every other card in the deck is awesome. If the metagame were to adjust such that CB/Top and combo were everywhere, then I too would be more inclined to play the full 4 CB.
Bardo
09-17-2010, 09:13 PM
Loved the article, Rich. Good job.
Nice article Rich good explanations of your card choices. Peacekeeper is pretty savage tech from the board.
Rich this was a phenomenal read, thanks a lot! How necessary do you think Yard hate is at this particular moment, recently I haven't really found a huge need for it, Out of principle I would bored a single relic for Trinket Mage but I'm not entirely sold on the Crypt at the moment, what are your thoughts?
The Atog Lord
09-21-2010, 02:07 PM
JV, I never want to lose to Lands or Dredge because I didn't have those in the board. I think we're too vulnerable to a number of strategies if we forego any hate. Life from the Loam, Lands, Dredge -- these are all things that we can handle much better using a couple graveyard hate spells. Is one enough? It might be. But having those two cards makes me feel better.
Peacekeeper/Jace looks like a bomb in the tribal matchup, however it doesn't help much against Zoo. Ever since the printing of Pridemage and Path to Exile, the win % swung considerably in Zoo's favor, and I think this is the single deck preventing Dreadstill from returning to power. From my experience on both sides of the table, Dreadstill (without Goyf) only wins with a fast Nought + protection or very early CBTop lock, but post-SB Krosan Grip/REB is a blowout. Perhaps a full playset of Perish is necessary in addition to Swords, but it is still possible for Zoo to slow play their threats and avoid the 2-for-1, since you don't have any way to force them to overextend.
Great result with the deck, and props for the Peacekeeper tech, but I'm not surprised that you dodged Zoo. Do you have anything hidden up your sleeve for that matchup?
menace13
09-21-2010, 05:58 PM
Nice article and I like the list. Recently tested it against Goblins and went like 1-5 in matches on the day. Stingscourger,Arty hate post board and turn 1 Lackey on play was all blowouts. Think out of the 6 matches I won like 5 games, what do you board out for them on play/on draw?
I also have a theory on Inquisition of Kozilek against Zoo/Gobs. Seize would be better, but the life loss might be too much and Duress cant hit Pridemage,Stingscourger,Lackey,Mangara etc. Anyone tested this?
The dream would be Inquistion turn 1, Cbalance turn 2, Top+StifleNought turn 3
Rico Suave
09-23-2010, 08:34 AM
Peacekeeper/Jace looks like a bomb in the tribal matchup, however it doesn't help much against Zoo. Ever since the printing of Pridemage and Path to Exile, the win % swung considerably in Zoo's favor, and I think this is the single deck preventing Dreadstill from returning to power. From my experience on both sides of the table, Dreadstill (without Goyf) only wins with a fast Nought + protection or very early CBTop lock, but post-SB Krosan Grip/REB is a blowout. Perhaps a full playset of Perish is necessary in addition to Swords, but it is still possible for Zoo to slow play their threats and avoid the 2-for-1, since you don't have any way to force them to overextend.
Great result with the deck, and props for the Peacekeeper tech, but I'm not surprised that you dodged Zoo. Do you have anything hidden up your sleeve for that matchup?
We've discovered that the best way to defeat Zoo is to chain Standstill into Standstill and simply ride the card advantage to victory. There is little Zoo can do about a resolved Standstill, given that they do not play manlands, Wastelands, or other cards such as Aether Vial.
Another effective plan of attack is mana denial. Zoo is a 3 color deck that is heavily reliant on each color, and it also runs a fair number of non-basics and fetchlands so it is very susceptible to Wasteland and Stifle. Given that most Zoo decks tend to run very low on the mana count, it's not uncommon to throw them off their game.
Jace is also a card that is surprisingly good against Zoo. Jace can bounce a creature and force them to replay it through CB. Jace can bounce a creature while we follow up with Standstill. Jace can also just Brainstorm each turn and put the game away.
All of the above are all plans of attack that are generally not available in other aggro matches like Goblins or Merfolk. Tight play goes a long way in regards to the Zoo vs. Dreadstill match.
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