Welderstone Survival 2.0

[GGoober]

Hi I'm back again, and those of you who followed my 2-page Welderstone Survival deck, here's a list to share with a SoM spoiling for Riddlesmith

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6894/riddlesmith.jpg

This is such a cool card that I set to work on my old Welderstone Survival (old old list) that has quite a few powerful synergies.

2 Tree of Tales
4 Forest
3 Tropical Island
4 Taiga
1 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills

3 Aether Vial
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Grindstone
4 Survival of the Fittest
3 Intuition

4 Birds of Paradise
3 Riddlesmith
3 Goblin Welder
3 Painter's Servant
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Trygon Predator
1 Squee
1 Anger
1 Sundering Titan
1 other robot (Wurmcoil Engine/Inkwell/Reaper King best slot IMO yes laugh but he wins me games :D)

Sideboard:
3 REB (go to 6 if it's blue/combo heavy meta)
3 BEB/Spell Pierce
3 Krosan Grip
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Llawan
1 Jaya
(other slots: genesis, relevant robots e.g. platinum angel against combo, Ensnaring Bridges!!)


My old list was GWr utilizing Pridemages and ETutors. There was little reason to run blue for just TfK/Intuition since the deck could not support FoW. With the spoiling of Riddlesmith, blue becomes a much more natural color. Previous GUr versions I tested could only support 3 TfK or Intuition, and seldom both without running to too many 3cmc cards. The huge benefit of Riddlesmith is that it functions as a static-mini TfK in play that is a creature count towards Survival. It's ability is not as strong as TfK but it sticks there and has great synergy with Top and the rest of the deck. I'll get into the synergies of the deck.

Riddelsmith
- Riddlesmith + Top = :1: cycle.
- Riddlesmith + Squee + Top = :1: draw a card
- Riddlesmith + things to discard: any artifacts (welded back eventually), Squee, extra copies of tops etc.
- Riddlesmith + artifact spell: dig further for synergies.
- Riddlesmith + Intuition: grab squee/artifacts (tops, robots) and start digging or anything you want to discard.
- 2 or more Riddlesmith: dig even faster, lots of things to discard in the deck anyway.

Goblin Welder
- Welder + Riddlesmith = non-Survival/Intuition way to recur robots.
- Welder + Intuition: Cheap wins.
- Welder + Survival (anger) = the name of this deck.
- Welder + Top: Tap top draw a card in response weld it out (just a small one).
- Welder + Vial@2 + Survival = I don't need to cast spells to win the game, the engine does not require any spells to be cast.
- Welder + Reaper King (if you play reaper king, he's awesome and people lose to him) = Painter's Servant not only wins with Grindstone but recurring Servants with Reaper King Vindicates for free!

Painter's Servant
- Usually discarded in the yard. Activate Grindstone in response weld grindstone out for Painter (doesn't require full mana cost for Grindstone combo to work). Painters in yard is one of the biggest resource in the deck
- Painter + Grindstone yeah
- Painter + REB/BEB postboards
- Painter + Llawan/Jaya + Survival

Intuition
- Intuition + Riddlesmith: setup card advantage/recursion (Squee,robots) engine
- Intuition + Survival: setup survival
- Intuition + Welder:

Sensei's Top
- Top + Grindstone = scry bad cards away
- Top + Survival = shuffle
- Top + Riddlesmith = :1: cycle

How to play the deck:
The deck has many synergistic engines so drawing just 1-2 combination of cards sets the deck going in motion:

Here are a combination of hands that the deck commonly draws
Hand A: Survival + creatures + 2 lands
I usually go for Welder + Titan + Anger against control decks if Survival resolves after grabbing Squee.
Against aggro, I'll set up wurmcoil engine asap and make sure to not activate Welder avoiding the Wurmcoil getting Pathed, or I can chain Goyf walls and beat later.
If the control player is seemingly dealing with Survival, you want to setup for Grindstone combo, discarding 1 Painter in your yard and holding the Welder in your hand and baiting counters then resolving Welder to win the game.

Hand B: Survival + Grindstone
This hand is what I feel to be a solid hand. Reason being if either Grindstone/Survival sticks, you are in good shape for the next few turns. If Survival sticks, gg. If Grindstone sticks and Survival is dealt with, then any painter you draw and resolve wins it, if they're countered, then Welder resolving wins it. There'a a ton of ways to bring the engine together in this deck. Previously, my GWr version is weak in this since it has no digging power, however with the printing of Riddlesmith, you can dig very fast and discard 'useful' cards in your GY, and having intuition as another powerful tutor/engine to speed things up

Hand C: Intuition + Welder
Resolve Welder first, and if Intuition resolves, fetch up robots/Survival depending on the matchup. If you suspect removal on Welder soon, then go for robot engine, otherwise if you suspect your opponent fizzling Welder activation, go for Survival. If the matchup isn't something like 2 turns against combo, I usually grab Survival since it gives a more inevitable mid-game, but this depends on what your opponent is playing

Hand D: Intuition + Riddlesmith
Grab a combination of Top/Squee/Robot or 3 Survival depending on the matchup. Against control, I would go for 3 Survival if they're dry on counters, otherwise grab Top/Squee/Robot for more digging. If you already have those cards in hand, go and grab Welders. If you have Welders, grab Aether Vials etc. Hopefully you get how this deck is working.

Hand E: Goyf + something
Just go beat down style or stall against matchups and setup engines.

Hand F: Top + stuff
Keep because Top is very strong in the deck (welder/Riddlesmith, digging into Survival, more engines). If you have Top + Riddlesmith, it's a strong hand.

Hand G: Top + Grindstone
Worthwhile to keep due to powerful digging, and Grindstone on yourself works with your Welder engines. Note that Grindstone is a powerful answer against opposing Tops (when they tap out of mana after topping but be careful not to help your opponents scry bad cards away).

Hand H: Welder + BoP + nothing useful
Problems with this deck is it will draw crappy hands like these i.e. small creatures and no potential to grab engines fast. I mull these hands away. The big problem I had with my GWr old list was this very fact. I can get my engines going but once disrupted and topdecking, I can just draw useless 1/1s, 0/1s and lose very fast. With this new build, there is so much more digging, and this problem is less severe, hence why I'm excited to pick it up again.


Matchups (no testing done yet, speculating based on old results with my GWr list
Zoo:
Somewhat 50/50 depending on your hand. If you have Survivals, you're favored. If you just have 1/1, 2/1 dorks, they're going to eat you fast. Drawing the Painter Grindstone godhand works for you too. Focus on setting up Survival engine and noting Pridemage i.e. plan for Pridemage and make sure your hand wins fast (grindstone combo) or chain goyfs to stall while resetting up engine. Postboard board they should be more favored with Krosan Grip, so you really need to mulligan aggressively and be aware of Pridemage + grips

Merfolks:
Favored 60/40. Everything you cast is going to win the game since they have no active removal. They can only proactively counter your threats. If a Vial/Survival/Welder resolves it's over. Since you don't play many green creatures, UB builds packing Perish don't do much. Postboard REB and Jaya + Llawan makes this very favorable for you while retaining your engines

Goblins:
40/60. No removal against lackey means GG for this deck game 1 unless you have strong and fast hands going into Welder + Wurmcoil or Painter + Grindstone. Postboard, REB + Jaya + llawan helps a little. Focus on getting Wurmcoil out against them but be careful not to let them disrupt your Welder activating with vialed Stingscourgers or cycled gempalms, not a favorable matchup unless they get an average Lackey hand and not a broke one, then Survival engine wins strongly against them.

Landstill
60/40 All you care is playing around EE/Deeds. Everything else, you should dominate. I'm a landstill player and this matchup is quite tough for Landstill. They have to deal with: Vial/Grindstone/Survival/Welder. And honestly, Riddlesmith is a huge threat to them since you are digging faster into threats than they are into answers. Recurring Sundering Titan is what beats this matchup all day long.

Combo
35/65 to 40/60 Not a favorable one game 1. Game 2 Platinum Angel + Sundering Titan + REB/BEB is still a little too slow. Possible to sideboard according to meta with Mindbreak Traps but matchup isn't worth improving. You can get a god hand of Painter Grindstone against them uness they're playing Shelldock Isle DDFT.

Countertop
60/40 Same as Landstill MU but more favored unless they're packing Trygons MD. Counterbalance resolving before any of your engine resolving is quite deadly. But statistically, you will get either one of Vial/Survival/Grindstone/Welder before they can get out Counterbalance so from that perspective you are good. I would go for Survival engine -> Welder + Titan against them, especially if they're running UG versions so your lands are preserved.

NO: Progenitus/Iona/Emrakul
Depends on how fast they get it out and what you have on board. Should usually be 45/55 since you setup your win-conditions by turn 3. Postboard REB against SnT, Llawan/Jaya deals with Emrakul well with Painter. Progenitus is a problem but NO decks get it out consistently on turn 3, and takes 2 turns to win, so you have just enough time to win as well. Bant NO is the tougher of these MU to play against but REB is pretty strong against them.

Stax:
45/55 Not too favored but resolved Welder/Vial is what beats this. Welder is a huge beating for stax.

Black discard/tempo
40/60 Quite tough since Survival is mana heavy. I'll opt for Vial hands and keeping Riddlesmith online is crucial to stabilizing your hand back in shape fast.

Tempo decks: CT/TA/New-Horizons
45/55 Resolve Survival, grab Wurmcoil engines stabilize and win. Their disruption may get to you though. CT is a tougher matchup because of burn reach and hitting Painters, but that deck is not too played ATM. New Horizons is much more favored since they have less removal and their threats come later. Crypt is great against NH as well. REB postboard for this matchup helps you a ton.

Other thoughts/shells:
Since the spoiled card is new, there are many other shells that I'm exploring with

Shell A: (UBr Countertop Grindstone/Reanimator)
This shell is probably the strongest but I have an attachment to my homebrew Welderstone Survival. I'll play this version in a combo-heavy, fast-paced metagame.

- Welder
- Riddlesmith
- Bob
- Painter
- Grindstone
- Top
- Entomb
- Robots
- Reanimate
- FoW
- Brainstorm
- Counterbalance
- Intuition

Shell B: (Same shell as Welderstone Survival but more aggro approach)
I'll play this list in a slower, more controllish metagame (i.e. less zoo, more countertops/lands)
- include 4 Vengevines somewhere, good synergy with Survival/Riddlesmith

[GGoober]

Reasons to play this deck
- You love Welder and you're pissed he is not too great in Legacy (IMO he's only viable in Survival shells giving him haste)
- You like Survival-based decks.
- You want to play a Survival-based deck that can win without the combat phase.
- You like tons of recursion/synergistic engines that can be fitted to 1 deck (Welder + artifacts, Survival + Welder, Intuition + Welder, Painter Grindstone + Survival, Painter Grindstone + Welder, Intuition + Painter Grindstone)
- Playing a rogue deck that no one knows how to play against (e.g. Reaper King people scream WTF? Then you block their 3/3 Cat with your 2/4 Painter since they forget RK pumps scarecrows +1/+1, that and it vindicates with Welder + Painter recursion).
- Having the flexibility to change unlike streamlined DTB/Established decks that work based on tight card choices.
- If you hate Allies in Legacy.

-Peace

Reasons to not play this deck
- Without any engines, the deck is very very weak. But as I have mentioned, it has so many synergistic engines that just drawing 1-2 cards sets it up. Riddlesmith is the biggest reason that I worked the deck out again since I can be more consistent in resetting my engines if they've all been dealt with
- Bad combo matchup, bad goblin matchup, average matchups overall but a tricky and freaking tough deck to pilot. Being the designer, I still make a lot of play mistakes. There is ALOT of decision trees that can be made with the deck. It has lots of answers/flexibility but it takes time to know all of them and how to use whatever mana's available to play the best strategy/engine.
- You are a boring person and enjoy streamlined DTB/Established :P
- You like Allies in Legacy.

[sco0ter]

First of all, I am glad, you reposted your deck to discussion. I love your deck (or synergistic Survival Decks in general).


There was little reason to run blue for just TfK/Intuition since the deck could not support FoW. With the spoiling of Riddlesmith, blue becomes a much more natural color.
[...]
It's ability is not as strong as TfK but it sticks there and has great synergy with Top and the rest of the deck.

So, basically you replaced TfK by Riddlesmith, but then you say TfK is stronger. Furthermore you still can't support FoW, but argue that this was exactly the reason you didn't want to run blue in the past. This looks a little bit paradox.


I also thought about running Riddlesmith in Welder Survival, but I wonder if Fauna Shaman isn't better here!? It tutors and should work more consistently, because you run more creatures (22) than cheap artifacts (13) to trigger Riddlesmith.
The only upside I see, is that he can attack _and_ draw and doesn't cost 1 mana to activate.

[GGoober]

@sco0ter, you make a good point with Fauna Shaman.

I have not tested her at all and she might be viable. Since the spoiling of the card I have really not tested her out in any survival build since on paper she looks bad (anyone with testing information please let me know how she does). She requires a full turn to become useful and she cannot chain activations, which is a big issue for the deck since you want to 'combo' out asap. It's usually not removal on fauna shaman that's the problem, it's just the overall speed of the card that deters me. I guess you can say the same thing with Riddlesmith since it's not a tutoring effect but a digging effect.

Shaman would free up blue but I feel that you have to run either blue/white for Predator/Pridemage maindeck.

On the TfK/FoW/Intuition/Riddlesmith comment:

What I meant was that TfK's inclusion in v1.0 was in and out. To run just TfK + Intuition still didn't make the deck strong for a number of reasons:
1) The creature count was significantly lowered or I swapped out Top/Vial instead of creatures. After some playtesting, Both Top and Vial are quite strong in the deck.
2) TfK was great if you had fat dudes that needed to be discarded without Survival, but if you TfK'd and then drew the big dudes, the problem still persist.
3) TfK is 2U, and competes against the 3cmc slot for Intuition, too many 3cmc slots was clunky.
4) FoW is just a bad card in this deck without diluting the strategy/power. It would either mean cutting down creatures/Vial/Top, and playing subpar blue creatures with U in their mana symbols.

The above reasons was why TfK was not played, and white with ETutor and Pridemage/Teeg was played. The issues that GWr Welderstone Survival ran into was:
1) No digging power and was very focused on getting Survival out (Etutor etc, I can see the same problem with Fauna Shaman)
2) Sideboard choices are weak (Teeg is strong, but other than that white doesn't give too much).

I would say that pridemage MD gave the deck a very aggro strategy when needed and is super with vial

The benefits of playing with Riddlesmith when compared against TfK's weakness (numbered correspondingly)
1) Riddlesmith fills in as a mini TfK but in the form of a creature (maintains creature count for Survival.
2) Riddlesmith v.s. TfK is a little like Putrid Imp v.s. Careful Study in dredge. Riddlesmith sticks in play as a discard outlet but also serves as a draw engine
3) Riddlesmith is 2cmc, and this is a turn faster than TfK (less explosive digging power but more digging power over game). Multiple Riddlesmiths in play dig very very fast, and at 2cmc, this is the important number for vial (vial@2 for goyf, painter)
4) FoW is still a bad card in this deck.

[sco0ter]

@sco0ter, you make a good point with Fauna Shaman.

I have not tested her at all and she might be viable. Since the spoiling of the card I have really not tested her out in any survival build since on paper she looks bad (anyone with testing information please let me know how she does). She requires a full turn to become useful and she cannot chain activations, which is a big issue for the deck since you want to 'combo' out asap. It's usually not removal on fauna shaman that's the problem, it's just the overall speed of the card that deters me. I guess you can say the same thing with Riddlesmith since it's not a tutoring effect but a digging effect.


I tested Shaman a few games on MWS. It got its job done. It's no Survival, but I think it is better than Riddlesmith.



Shaman would free up blue but I feel that you have to run either blue/white for Predator/Pridemage maindeck.


No. They are good, but mono green offers enough answers as well. Wickerbough Elder, Viridian Zealot, Sylvan Replica.

Yeah, FoW is unsupportable in this deck. I played it, it was ok, but not good, due to low blue count (17) and card disadvantage. Cabal Therapy is much better in the disruption slot.

[GGoober]

I'll give both Riddlesmith and Fauna Shaman a test. Mind posting a sample list? Are you still running GWr or GBr?

[sco0ter]

This was the list, I was testing on MWS recently.


// 22
4 Taiga
3 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Tree of Tales
3 Chrome Mox

// 24
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Goblin Welder
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Shield Sphere
1 Eternal Witness
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Triskelion
1 Duplicant

// 14
3 Aether Vial
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top


Fiend has always been a nice tutor target. Vial was not that good, since the creature curve is so low. I never want more than 1 Vial in play (it is nice but not needed), maybe 2 is even a better number.
I tested 3 Thoughtseize in their slot, which worked quite well.

3 Shaman should be enough, too.

Eternal Witness wasn't good either. Scryb Ranger is probably one Ranger too much.


If I played with Grindstone, I'd try this:


// 21
4 Taiga
3 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Tree of Tales
2 Chrome Mox

// 23
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Fauna Shaman
4 Goblin Welder
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Shield Sphere
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Painter's Servant
1 Sylvan Replica
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
1 Duplicant

// 16
3 Grindstone
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Entomb
3 Sensei's Divining Top


Entomb could be interesting for fetching Grindstone/Painter or Fatties, to be more Survival independant.

[DireLemming]

Fell in love with the deck the moment I saw it. Finnally had the chance to try it out properly and even experiment a bit. Some changes I tried:

+1 Academy Ruins
Synergies:
* Intuition
* Can reload "empty" Survival/Riddlesmith/Welder

+1 Life from the Loam
Synergies:
* Riddlesmith
* Welder (either as reloading Tree of Tales or filling the graveyard with artefacts)
* Top+Grindstone (on self)
* Intuition+Academy Ruins
* Fetchlands
* Top

+2 Memnite
+3 Vengevine
It might be better to go all the way with a full playset of Vengevines, 2-3 Basking Rootwalla & 1 Memnite

+1 Trinket Mage
Synergies:
* Survival can assemble the whole Painterstone combo.
* Vengevine (fetching Memnite). Conversely, probably not worth it without Vengevine.
* Intuition becomes somewhat more flexible.

+1 Eternal Witness
Especially good when fighting hate. With this in mind, it might be better in SB.

To make space I cut some combination of:

-1 SDT
-4 Tarmogoyf
-3 Aether Vial
-1 other robot

Vial never did it for me. It was either too slow or I used it only once (and with 1-2 counters at that).
Goyf is a nice plan-C but nowadays it rarely wins games on it's own. If I can mount additional pressure, this means I assembled one of the engines. If so, I can also do better than Goyf.

Stuff I want to try:

* Engineered Explosives

* Tezzeret the Seeker + Ensnaring Bridge (+ EE)

* Chrome Mox

* Magus of the Moon

* Quirion Ranger

[ivanpei]

I love this deck, it seems insanely fun and somewhat innovative (welder survival has been around a long time). I haven't tested, but on paper, fauna-> riddlesmith. It needs 3 activations to get a robot out with fauna.

Activation 1: Find robot
Activation 2: Pitch robot for welder, cast welder
Activation 3: Find random cheap artifact with Fauna. Weld stuff in.

That take a total of 3 turns after fauna lands before it does anything.

I would rather just:

Activation 1: Find iona,
Activation 2: Pitch Iona, find retainers, cast retainers, win

Or
Activation 1: Find triskelion
Activation 2: Find Devourer
Activation 3: Find ooze, cast ooze, win.


Sorry to rain on the parade but great deck nonetheless! On a constructive note, if you switch to fauna, maybe a trinket mage as a target is useful? You can tutor trinket, cast it, find stone + block and survive. Next turn find painter and win.

[Meekrab]

This deck seems awesome... for casual play. But awesome nonetheless.

[GGoober]

Thanks guys :)

I call it Jank Survival in my playgroup. As much as it seems casual and Iona/retainers and many other Survival combo seems much more devastating, the strength of this deck is the huge power to attack from many angles. A ton of angles in fact. The Riddlesmith version is inferior, and it is much stronger to just play +2 Fauna Shaman to get something in yard/hand even if disrupted to win eventually.

I usually do alright with this deck, but it has an abysmal combo matchup that I cannot solve.

I'm posting a new list soon in the next week.

[Esper3k]

If combo is the only real worry, can you dedicate like 8 slots or something to it?

The problem I've had working with combo these days also is that it's actually so diverse it's hard to have a single type of sideboard card to fight it.

Having to deal with Storm combo is considerably different than dealing with Emrakuls being cheated in.

[GGoober]

The new list is GBrw and is, on paper the only way to successfully deal with combo without depending on the slow turn 2-3 hate-bear/Survival that isn't fast enough. I think those GB(x) Survival decks are the only decks that can decently fight combo. With black, you get Shriekmaws for Emrakul as well. Still cooking up a list, but sadly, it boils down to 4Bobs v.s. Painter/Grindstone combo, and I'm leaning towards Bob at the moment aka (Welder, Goyf, Bob, Survival, Vial, uhm everytrhing in your deck needs to be answered lol). The GB package so far is interesting, still cooking up. Triskelion Necrotic Ooze combo has a redundant Triskelion slot in the Welder package.

[GGoober]

This is the new list that I have been working on and planning to test at my local scene.

The concept is the same: Play a Survival deck with Welders but don't be too overly reliant on the Survival engine. I recommend the GWr list if your meta has little or no combo. The GWr list takes a shit on most aggro or control lists but has a weak matchup against gobs without the removal against Lackey, but then you'l have to gamble if you can stabilize while letting lackey chain, probably not very likely.


GWr Jank Survival (Top 4 local tourney, did well overall, but auto-lose to turn one 10-14 warren tokens)

3 Tree of Tales
4 Taiga
3 Savannah
1 Plateau
3 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath

4 Birds
3 Welder
1 Quirion Ranger
2 Fauna Shaman
3 Painter's Servant
4 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Squee
1 Anger
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel (Platinum Emperion's much better)
1 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Survival
4 Aether Vial
3 Grindstone

SB:
3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 REB
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Genesi

I was joking that if I had Loyal Retainers (was going to snag one for $70 but decided not to now I regret it D:), This will be the Jank Survival deck with every competitive combo in Legacy: NOgenitus, Iona Retainers, Painterstone, Welderstuff lol.

Anyway, great matchups are non-gobs, non-combo matchups. Merfolks might get scary but usually you have your own vial to gain speed. The deck attacks from a ton of angles. Dropping an early grindstone bluffing/setting up for Painter with Survival or/and instead just shitting out Wurmcoils instead confuses the hell out of opposing play and anticipation. Sometimes the deck confuses myself too. I'll go on confidently to say that Wurmcoil Engine is the card that single-handedly improved this deck, Fauna Shaman > Riddlesmith if you're playing with Vials. You want to set Vial@2 in most cases, that way with an active Vial + Survival, you can pretty much resolve any spells without having to cast them. Some neat tricks are: Grindstone in play, Painter in yard, Welder in play (most common situation when Survival is out), 3 mana open, activate Grindstone, weld out Grindstone for Painter to win.

Welder is very DEADLY in this deck. If they don't StP it you win because of the high chances on drawing a Survival/Painter/Grindstone effect. The philosophy of the deck: "Everything needs to be countered-dealt with" include Welder, Survival, Vial, Goyf, Painter/Grindstone. The only bad points of this deck are: drawing shitty hands like "Welder, BoP, Lands, Grindstone", "Painter, Goyf, Lands, BoP". I guess they're not shitty, but it pales in comparison to hands like "Welder, Survival, BoP, Lands", "Vial, Survival, Lands", "Painter, Grindstone, Lands", "Survival, Grindstone, Lands" etc.

Here's a very interesting list that I cooked up and I personally think it's superior. I'll share it first and will need some advice as to whether Ooze-package/Bobs/Grindstone package is the strongest

22 Lands:
3 Tree of Tales
3 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Swamp
4 Bayou
3 Taiga
2 Savannah

24 Creatures:
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Goblin Welder
2 Painter's Servant
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Squee
1 Anger
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devorer
1 Wurmcoil Engine


14 non-creatures:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Grindstone
3 Aether Vial
4 Survival of the Fittest

SB:
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Extirpate/Crypt (crypt is better no mana needed)
1 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Thoughtseize
3 Sylvan Replica/Krosan Grip (I like the Replica for re-Welding purposes and with Vial you can't counter it)
2 Shriekmaw
1 Duplicant
1 flex slot

I would like to squeeze the 3rd Welder and Sculler if possible, but not sure if dropping to 21 Lands is the right play, or cutting the 4th bob. Comments on the new list:

- Main strategy unchanged: "Play a deck where everything needs to be dealt with". Welder or Bob is quite potent since everything is in fact a removal magnet. Bob may have been the very missing thing that this deck needed: Digging power when the board looks ugly after permission wars. You still have: Welder/Survival combo, Painter/Servant Combo, Survival beatdown, and an added Ooze package.

- Ooze package involves the ugly slots of Triskelion/Ooze/Devourer, but so far, Triskelion is a relevant target in Welder Survival builds, so that's a plus. Ooze itself is a good card, and serves as the 3rd Welde. Devourer is the only true dead slot. I might play a 61 card list with Devourer as the random extra slot, but I'm still debating on the package. 1 true-dead slot in a deck isn't too bad considering Emrakul decks pack 4 true-dead slots. Ooze package wins instantly, and in the black shell, discard is going to protect it through, otherwise you can always do the deadly ->Tidehollow Sculler check hand into Ooze ftw.

- The loss of Duplicant MD is sad indeed because that card wins games, but if you suspect a meta of Knights and bigger creatures, drop a creature and put him in (maybe 3rd bob to not die from too many 6cmc spells). I have Duplicant and 2 Shriekmaws SB against Emrakul/Iona decks, but the goal is to just race them with your combos before they connect (turn 3-4 usually).

- There's some cute lock synergies that are not too hard to achieve: Welder + Tidehollow sculler locks your opponent out of cards. You need either Vial + Welder or 2 Welder to pull this off. Opponent draws, you vial Sculler and in response to ETB trigger weld it out, LTB triggers and you return nothing to your opponents, ETB trigger comes in and removes the card for good. You could do this with 2 scullers (one in yard one in play) or have 2 welders in play to cycle through. Even without fully removing the card, you can still 'thoughtseize' buy some time to either win or setup a lock.

- The deck is now GBrw and may run into mana issues, but the only w cards are Sculler which are usually not casted. They are often vialed/Welded (after dumping into yard by Survival). The R cards are solely Welder and the Anger in the yard. You may say cut Anger, but I am a strong believer that Welder is a strong card in Legacy IF AND ONLY IF it has haste. No haste no Welder.dec. As simple as that. There are games where Squee is not even relevant and you just want to fetch out Anger and get Welder out a turn faster instead of setting up card advantage. Welder will win you games, if he comes out ASAP uninterrupted.

- Other considerations. Bob may not be the best way to go, and if Bobs are dropped, I can add in 1 Shriekmaw, 1 Duplicant, 3rd Welder or Quirion Ranger and the 3rd Sculler. But I feel I rather just have those slots be Bob and have him been answered and if he's not answered, than my Ooze/Welder/Goyfs/Sculler stick in play to try to win the game. Also Bob will draw a lot faster into one of the three combos, or just overwhelm an opponent. I've been disatisfied with Bob lately in other decks, but I think he's worth a good shot and has a better staying power in a deck that runs discard.

The whole revamp into GB(x) shell was to answer the combo matchup. Discard is not the best way against combo, but I feel that turn 2/3 hate-bears with/without Survival is not the way either. It's just too slow. At least black post sideboard I'll have: 4 Cabal Therapy, 4 Thoughtseize, 2-3 Sculler, maybe a Teeg against combo. I think that should at least give me a 50/50 win. If not, I can still slow them down by 1-2 fundamental turns giving me enough time to setup my combo (Painter/Grindstone) and Ooze combo in the new decklist.

Discuss and Jank Survival FTW! It may not be the best, but it's definitely being innovated as we speak, and adapting to answer its problems, yet be the more fun decks out there on the Source.