[Article] A Lesson in Humility

[Master Shake]

Hey, I've been trucking away over at Mana Naton turning out articles every week. I stopped doing the shameless self-promotion, for the most part; but this week I decided to do a bit of public service and wrote about Humility.

This article serves as a comprehensive, up-to-date and hopefully helpful resource that you can all access until the next time Humility is fundamentally changed. So I wanted to share it with all of you, and check out some of my other content on there, it isn't the worst (only one person can be the worst, so I'm just guessing that it isn't me.)

http://www.mananation.com/lesson-humility/

The end.

[Koby]

Great resource!

I now have a headache.

[Taurelin]

Great work! Thanks for that, first of all.

When talking about the layer-system in general, one should however mention the concept of dependency.


613.7. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is sometimes done using a dependency system. If a dependency exists, it will override the timestamp system.

613.7a. An effect is said to "depend on" another if (a) it's applied in the same layer (and, if applicable, sublayer) as the other effect (see rules 613.1 and 613.3); (b) applying the other would change the text or the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it applies to; and (c) neither effect is from a characteristic-defining ability. Otherwise, the effect is considered to be independent of the other effect.

613.7b. An effect dependent on one or more other effects waits to apply until just after all of those effects have been applied. If multiple dependent effects would apply simultaneously in this way, they're applied in timestamp order relative to each other. If several dependent effects form a dependency loop, then this rule is ignored and the effects in the dependency loop are applied in timestamp order.

[luma]

Some mistakes I found:


When a creature does something as you cast it, such as it enters the battlefield, such as Meddling Mage or Arcbound Ravager, these are effects, not abilities. We can tell they are not abilities because they don’t fit any of the criteria for the abilities listed above.

Those are static abilities, but because they work before the creature is on the battlefield, Humility won't prevent them from doing their job.


State based effects according to Humility.

Humility has nothing to do with state-based actions. The layer system is about the interaction of continuous effects, not state-based actions.

[Nidd]

Some mistakes I found:



Those are static abilities, but because they work before the creature is on the battlefield, Humility won't prevent them from doing their job.



Humility has nothing to do with state-based actions. The layer system is about the interaction of continuous effects, not state-based actions.
Everyone gets what he means, that was the point of his article.
It was written for players, not judges/rule advisors.

[Nonex]

Some things I see and don't agree with:


613.1a Layer 1: Copy effects are applied. See rule 706, “Copying Objects.”

Clone, Vesuvan Doppelganger and such cards choose which card to enter the battlefield as and will stay a copy of that creature. Not that important, but it can come up.

Layers are for continuous effects only. Clone and Vesuvan Doppelganger have replacement effects (they enter as a copy of something else), so they are not valid examples. Use Dimir Doppelganger or Unstable Shapeshifter instead.


613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.

Nothing to really discuss here in regards to Humility.

Why not? Sower of Temptation entering before Humility will keep an opposing creature under your control even if it loses all abilities afterwards.


613.1c Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 612, “Text-Changing Effects.”

Nothing here either.

Volrath's Shapeshifter comes to mind.


Mistform Ultimus, 1/1, no abilities, but is still all creature types as this is rules text on the card, not an ability.

It is an ability, a characteristic-defining one. Since it defines creature types, its place is layer 4.

[luma]

Everyone gets what he means, that was the point of his article.
It was written for players, not judges/rule advisors.

I understand, that the article is written for players, but that is no excuse for factual errors, especially if the truth isn't significantly more complicated.

[Hopo]

Everyone gets what he means, that was the point of his article.
It was written for players, not judges/rule advisors.

You obviously are not a competitive player. I would believe that most players actually prefer facts and correct explanations of rulings to false ones.
Minor errors, but errors anyway. No need to try to back them up with ill logic.

[Nidd]

You obviously are not a competitive player. I would believe that most players actually prefer facts and correct explanations of rulings to false ones.
Minor errors, but errors anyway. No need to try to back them up with ill logic.
Some people want to the exact rulings.
Some are confidant by knowing the outcome of vaying situations.

Both sorts of players can be competitive.