The i don't got no Jace TM, blues!

[jazzykat]

So, I was preparing for a tournament that will go down in a few hours and have tested various decks and archetypes for a few months. I'm an old player and attend 1 tournament a month, if that. I have legacy staples and extras of most dual lands up for trade. I can't really find people to trade me these damn at even money. I think most people would agree an underground sea, 2 Taigas or 3 wastelands are around even money give or take a few $ of smaller playables. I really have an issue sinking $160 more dollars into a hobby that I don't really play much beyond MWS but it seems that in order for me to continue to play just about any deck with blue I will need at least 2 Jaces.

Also, why isn't everyone bitching about him yet. He costs as much as Tarmogoyf used to, and is played in just about every deck with blue. Is it because he is at least not as splashable as tarmogoyf. I mean, Tgoyf at least east to StP and PtE. Jace, TM on the table usually means you eat shit and die.

In order to keep this thread from being just another bitch session, I'll ask you guys a serious question: Bite the bullet and pony up for Jace (Yes I know I can ebay the duals and get the money but that is really irritating and I would rather spend my free time doing something else) or just wait it out until states results magically cause his value to drop to $50.

What do you guys do who don't have/can't afford Jace. Do you just bend over and get raped at the tournaments or do you play Merfolk?

[Felidae]

Actually I can't afford Jace 2.0, but some of my friends got a playset of him so it was usually never a problem for me to lend 2-3 copies. If I can't lend any then it's time for Ichorid.

[Deviruchi]

You can play Survival+Vengevine.dec (but I guess you will also have to buy VV) which is quite successful deck or try combo. Mostly you should focus on fighting with your “I’m old” attitude because it is a problem, not buying Jaces ;)

[Philipp2293]

@Jazzykat: Not sure if you read it before the tourney, but I could borrow (no sorry, not for sale/trade) up to 3 Jace TMS for the tourney, I'll take them with me anyway I guess.



What do you guys do who don't have/can't afford Jace. Do you just bend over and get raped at the tournaments or do you play Merfolk?

GW Survival with Vengevines MD kick Jace Decks pretty hard from my experience. But then again Vengevines are not so different from Jace TMS, I guess.

[Jonathan Alexander]

I'd rather get a few Jaces than Vengevines, even though I'd rather want to play something with Vengevines. The thing about Jace is, like jazzykat said, that it's in almost every deck with blue, whereas Vengevine is basically just played in U/G Madness and G/W Survival. As good as Jace is, I think he's a bit overrated and he's only good 'cause he's the best planeswalker out there, at least in Legacy. In a format that is as focused on creatures as Legacy is being able to kill without creatures is really pays off, which is basically the only reason I'd play Jace instead of Elspeth, Knight-Errant. The other good thing about Jace is that he's blue and you don't need to splash anything since all the decks that want him play blue anyway.

[jazzykat]

@ Phillip and Robert: Thanks for the suggestions/offers, but I've already promised my wife to go to the Albertina (Vienna is such an amazing city!). Good luck today guys, and I am sure you will have 8.

I don't have any Vengvines either but I will need to see about buying a couple of Jace very soon I guess.

[Rico Suave]

Jace is probably not going down to $50 for a considerable amount of time. It's still a commonly used card in Legacy and Vintage, and I'm sure it will be popular in Extended for at least a few years.

If you're really interested in playing a Jace deck, I would recommend just investing in them now. Ask anyone who invested in some Goyfs if that was a bad idea.

[sigfig8]

Actually, the best advice I can share is something you already revealed in your original post. That is, you can sell some of your excess duals on ebay and use the cash to buy Jace 2.0. It can be a hassle, but is it not worth it versus spending all that cash? You could make the ebay part easy on yourself if you didn't mind losing 5-10% value on the duals. You can list them as buy it now for the cheapest price (within reason) and they should sell within a day. Then you could use the cash and do buy it now on a Jace 2.0...they usually go for 70$ this way.

The only other option I can think of would be to go to a legacy tournament and try to trade there. Spread the word that you have extra Underground Seas and you may get lucky. But I've got a true story to share with you here: One day, I bought an Illusionary Mask on SCG (pre-unbanning) for about 55$. After un-banning, I sold for 120$ and was feeling pretty awseome. I decided to spend that cash on something on ebay that I could in turn trade for even more value. I bought 2 Underground Seas. That was 6 months ago, and the seas are still in my binder :(. Should have bought 2 Jace, TMS's.

Anyone want to make that trade???

[Shinwei]

I haven't really seen Jace in any major Top 8's in Legacy as of late. The two big decks right now that have blue in them - Vengevine Madness and Merfolk, both do not run Jace. Do you really want to play some kind of CounterTop or something?

[Deadweight]

I was under the same predicament about a year or so ago, when Goyf was dominating and was an auto-include in aggro/tempo decks. I didn't have the resources then but I wasn't too eager to play him either. I didn't even try trading and I picked up a different deck instead. The answer to your question is if you think you'd enjoy the card that much then I believe that justifies your effort.

I didn't believe the hype so it took me a couple of months before I pulled the trigger on 4 foil Jace, tMS's, sold a bunch of my staples. It was only after I keep playing against him and losing that I realized his potential.

Tarmogoyf, on the other hand is a mere rare vanilla beater (now at $50) and nothing compared to Jace, tMS which has sculpted the Vintage format more than Legacy. A Mythic, and Planeswalker with 4 of the sickest abilities a control deck dreams of. I never thought he will be immediately reprinted in M11, he's in fact too powerful to be reprinted and be standard-legal. Post rotation, I don't see people letting go of their Jaces easily.

[HAVE HEART]

Also, why isn't everyone bitching about him yet. He costs as much as Tarmogoyf used to, and is played in just about every deck with blue. Is it because he is at least not as splashable as tarmogoyf. I mean, Tgoyf at least east to StP and PtE. Jace, TM on the table usually means you eat shit and die.

I think people were sick of having to stuff Tarmogoyf into every deck imaginable. It got pretty annoying reading through a decklist thread only to end up seeing "needs moar goyf!!!"

[Offler]

to Jazzykat:

You are from Vienna. Try Czech city of Brno and the "Cerny rytir" shop there. They have 7 pieces of Jace the Mind Sculptor for 1490 Czech crowns thats approximately 60 Euro.

www.cernyrytir.cz

However if you dont speak czech i can assist you.

Edit: however US dollar is not as it used to be... i expected bigger difference in price (2 dollars cheaper as in cardkingdom howerer they are currently out of stock)

[Tangle.Wire]

Just run Jace #1, you can drop it for cc3, draw some cards, and as you said beside counter there is not much that removes jace so the 1:1 trade is more than fair.

[Purgatory]

I play Merfolk or UW Tempo, because I can't afford Jace. I used to say "I play Slivers because I can't afford Goyfs", but then I just bit the bullet and traded for a set. Unsure if I'm going to do the same with Jace2 before he rotates out of standard, partly because I don't own any more pricey cards since trading for Goyfs, and partly because I don't really want to play Blue_Control.dec.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Jace is worth less than Underground Sea on Ebay.
1: Find someone who sells cards on Ebay.
2: Offer to trade Underground Sea for Jace.
3: ????
4: Profit

Underground Sea is worth $50 to Starcitygames, Jace is worth $45.
1: Goto SCG $5k.
2: Stand near card buyer and offer Underground Sea for Jace.
3: ????
4: Profit

Underground Sea is worth more than Jace.
1: Find online trading forum.
2: Thread title "MY UNDERGROUND SEA FOR YOUR JACE:TMS"
3: ????
4: Profit

It's really not as hard as you make it sound. The problem is that likely most people near you don't want to trade Jace because they play more T2 than Legacy, which is the deal in most places. You just need to find the right place. I wouldn't sell Seas on Ebay to buy Jaces unless it's a last resort. If you sell something Buy It Now at around $75 between Ebay and Paypal you end up paying about $11 in fees.

[jazzykat]

First I would like to thank everyone that responded to this thread for their thoughtful responses. The trolls must have been still arguing over Tarmogoyf on another thread because none showed up here.

@holmes: Excellent points, I live in Vienna but can still get stuff from America so it isn't quite as easy as that for me. Also, that is an INCREDIBLE amount of fees that ebay and paypal takes. It is somewhere around 15% :eek:

So to end my whiny little saga, I won 2 Jaces on ebay and can apparently borrow as many as I need until they show up.

I started testing with him last night and when I dropped him it felt dirty. I haven't played a card outside of vintage, short of a lethal tendrils or brainfreeze that made me feel that kind of raw power. I would never say a piece of cardboard is worth $70 but it sure felt like it!

[raye]

I really hated the cost of Tarmogoyf. But I ponied up. Then 3 weeks later, the bottom fell out. It isn't as much a question of "Can I afford?" for me even though I am... without income. But rather, do I value it at that. Will I use it enough.

I don't think the answer is yes for Jace. At least for me. I'd like a set. But I'm not sure I would like it in a blue Legacy deck. At least not enough to drop that kind of money. If I get a job, might I pay for them? Probably. Not necessarily to use them. But I like having staple Eternal cards.

And you seem to know this already. But you didn't "win" 2 Jaces on Ebay. Ebay won the fees :(.

[dontbiteitholmes]

First I would like to thank everyone that responded to this thread for their thoughtful responses. The trolls must have been still arguing over Tarmogoyf on another thread because none showed up here.

@holmes: Excellent points, I live in Vienna but can still get stuff from America so it isn't quite as easy as that for me. Also, that is an INCREDIBLE amount of fees that ebay and paypal takes. It is somewhere around 15% :eek:

So to end my whiny little saga, I won 2 Jaces on ebay and can apparently borrow as many as I need until they show up.

I started testing with him last night and when I dropped him it felt dirty. I haven't played a card outside of vintage, short of a lethal tendrils or brainfreeze that made me feel that kind of raw power. I would never say a piece of cardboard is worth $70 but it sure felt like it!

Ebay + Paypal = $0.80 + 15% up to $50 then 9% after that for Buy It Now and $0.30 + 12% for a straight up auction as long as the price starts at under $1. It's pretty steep. Paypal is actually pretty reasonable it's the Ebay fees that get you.