Hulk Combo

[median]

So I was playing around with some friends and this deck came up. I've been asked to post it so here it is.

sac hulk
//spells

4 natural order
4 personal tutor
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 mind swords
4 misdirection

//lands

4 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 island
1 forest
4 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacombs
1 dryad arbor
//creatures

4 birds of paradise
4 noble Hierarch
4 llanowar elves
1 Kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1 karmic guide
1 carrion feeder
1 body snatcher
1 progenitus

1 Protean hulk

It's basically a very bad flash hulk. The deck wins on turn 3 but dies to every piece of disruption in the format. It's fun. If you haven't figured it out, you cast natural order to get out hulk, then sacrifice hulk to mind swords and loop karmic guide and Kiki-jiki. The whole thing can be tutored with personal tutor. I don't see it doing well but I'm sure it could become something.

[Gocho]

You forgot the Hulk in your list :)

You have 8 Fow, How can it dies to every piece of disruption?

[median]

Your right, I forgot the hulk entirely and that has been fixed. The FoW 5-8 are misdirections and aren't really as good as FoW (they're really only good against burn and countermagic). On the surface the deck doesn't entirely roll over and lose to any individual piece of disruption, but every card used as disruption in this format hits it. There are two problems with that, not only will your opponent have a very good sideboard against you but a lot of hate maindeck. The one upside is that you have a much more solid win in progenitus should you see that hate coming.

[Gocho]

What kind of disruption worried you?
Discard?
Creature Removal?
Countermagic?

[median]

Stifle, wasteland (you need a swamp to cast mind swords), burn ( it can interrupt the kiki-jiki loop), discard, countermagic, hate bears (teeg/canonist etc), instant speed bounce, board sweepers (pyroclasm) with elves out, grave hate, moon effects.
If we can deal with half of those the deck will be tier one.

[Shai tan teh reaper]

I was looking at list and it looks really solid but, why mind swords over cabal therapy?

[Dark Ritual]

Second the cabal therapy way of thinking. That adds more protection to the combo and therapy can answer every card in the format. So you're thinking of swordswing the kiki in response? No chance since I'll therapy you before kiki hits play, naming swords. Misdirection is also valid against spot removal because you redirect it to another worthless creature like mana producers in the form of hierarch, birds, and lawn mower elves. Overall the deck looks interesting looking forward to developments

[Gocho]

Stifle, wasteland (you need a swamp to cast mind swords), burn ( it can interrupt the kiki-jiki loop), discard, countermagic, hate bears (teeg/canonist etc), instant speed bounce, board sweepers (pyroclasm) with elves out, grave hate, moon effects.
If we can deal with half of those the deck will be tier one.

Stifle isn't very played in the last Tier lists, so you don't be worried about it. You can go for NO-Progenitus if you think that your opponent could have in his hand.
As Shai tan teh reaper and Dark ritual say, Cabal Therapy is the common sacrifice effect for Hulk. It doesn't affect you and you can cast it after a Wasteland. You need to cast it before NO, but seems a lot of better than Mind Swords. And you can change Hierarch for Elves of Deep Shadow to get more black effects so you can fetch for basics.
Vs Burn, grave hate and instant bounce, I don't remember all the Hulk kills but you have someones that doesn't die to them. You only need to search it a little in SCG and change your slots.
Discard isn't very relevant. You can Personal Tutor for Natural Order the turn before you are ready (T2 or T3) and cast it throught discard.
You have 8 Fow effects for countermagic, but seems that only 16 effects are very little to use it. You must test it.
If Board sweepers is very relevant, you can add some Manawalls (Vine Trellis, Wall of Roots and Overgrown Battlement). Wall of Roots can give you mana the same turn you cast it and block a T1-T2 creature.

And for Moon effect, you can add more basics or change to 2 colors. You lose the sacrifice effect, so you must use a bad card like Metamorphosis, Mask of the Mimic or one of the cc=2 artifacts
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3A%22sacrifice+a+creature%22+c%3Ac+cmc%3C%3D2&v=card&s=cname

I'll search the alternative Hulk kills and I'll post an updated list

EDIT:
You must read the Entomb Hulk post for a good kill combo:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?14940-%5BDeck%5D-Entomb-Hulk&p=383814&viewfull=1#post383814

So I'll go with this:

NO Hulk
//spells (24)
4 natural order
4 personal tutor
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 Cabal Therapy
4 misdirection

//lands (18)
2 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 island
2 forest
1 Swamp
4 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacombs
1 dryad arbor

//creatures (18)
4 birds of paradise
3 noble Hierarch
3 Wall of Roots
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Body Double
2 carrion feeder
1 Reveillark
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 progenitus
1 Protean hulk

Maybe would need Body Snatcher, but you have Brainstorm to deal with the combo pieces in your hand.

[median]

thanks,
I had chosen mind swords because it was faster, cabal therapy is fine. Therapy also deals with combo pieces in hand, so body snatcher won't be as necessary. I like where this is headed. What about,

//spells
4 natural order
4 personal tutor
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 Cabal Therapy
1 innocent blood
4 misdirection

//lands
2 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 island
2 forest
1 Swamp
4 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacombs
1 dryad arbor

//creatures
4 birds of paradise
4 noble Hierarch
3 Wall of Roots
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Body Double
1 carrion feeder
1 Reveillark
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 progenitus
1 Protean hulk

[Gocho]

You need 2x Carrion feeder to prevent that the opponent Burn your Carrion in response to sacrifice Body Double (Hulk), you search for a 2nd Carrion and you can keep chaining creatures.

But try it, it seems like you can win vs many decks. I see very little Graveyard Hate in my meta.

[Dark Ritual]

How about for the kill combo with hulk you simply fetch out necrotic ooze, phyrexian devourer, triskelion, and carrion feeder? Then it only takes up 4 slots and you don't need to attack to finish them. Protection slots would be benevolent bodyguard(s) for when the opponent tries to swords/path/nonblack removal the necrotic ooze. Did I mention ooze has protection from pretty much every black removal spell in legacy? Smother, snuff out, vendetta, and ghastly demise all cannot target black creatures/necrotic ooze.

[Gocho]

You can't:



When Protean Hulk is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, search your library for any number of creature cards with total converted mana cost 6 or less and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

All this creatures are 4+6+6+1 = 17 cmc

[median]

It would work if necrotic ooze acquired triggered abilities, but as I understand it it wouldn't work.
On a side note, I did some testing against UG vengevival and TES (ubr). NO hulk lost one game in ten to vengevines and had an exactly 50/50 win loss rate against TES after 8 games.
The big difference was that therapy made force of will useless for vengvines and life loss was irrellivent until the final point for NO hulk.

[Gocho]

According to the test thread, if you want to get a decent percentage you must play 30 games ;)