Balanced Coatl

[TheG]

I don't play magic on real from a long time, and now i would start agin playing my favourite card game with an initial affordable expenditure. However i'd like to build a deck open to future improvements to be competitive in the Legacy format.
So i looked for a typical Aggro-control G/U based. For now i defined about the 80% of the main deck and i'm asking for help about manabase, some filings and, at last, the sideboard.

So, here is the list:

// Lands
11 [SHM] Island
7 [SHM] Forest

// For now i was testing with a basical manabase.....very cheap ;D

// Creatures
3 [10E] Quirion Dryad
3 [ARB] Lorescale Coatl

// The deck focus on spells like brainstom ponder and ptreodain with a low mana cost and very playable in each turn finding the Counter-Top or other low cost drawing spell....so they seem the best price/power option.

// Spells
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [CS] Counterbalance
// Classical Countertop configuration with a lot of cantrips :D
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [MM] Brainstorm
// Classical cantrip configuration
3 [4E] Sylvan Library
// An optimal Drawing - deck manipulation - coatl growing utility... maybe x2?
4 [DS] Echoing Truth
// A semi global bouncer
4 [DIS] Voidslime
4 [NE] Daze
// Counter department without FoW. daze could be an effective first turn defense, during midgame, instead, sensei and the others cantrips could help to not draw a useless one.

There are 6 empty slots, and some suggestions:

- More counters: with Rune Snag, Mana Leak, or a more specific Turn Aside
- Creature Evasion: with Rancor and/or Favor of the Overbeing
- Cantrip improvement: with Preordain
- More creatures: x4 of dryad and coatl
- Any Other Business: regrowth

what you think about? do you ave any other suggestions? thank you for reading :D

[eq.firemind]

Some basic advices

You absolutely need 8 fetchlands in order to squeeze 100% out of your Brainstorm and Top.
Misty Rainforest and Scalding Tarn are easy to find and not very expensive.

3rd Library should go out - you have enough tools to find one.

Voidslime should turn into Counterspell - 1 mana difference is HUGE in this format.

Spell Snare and Spell Pierce are extremely good in this format.

+1 Dryad and +1 Coatl is very good idea.

Auras are plain bad. Don't play them.

[TheG]

ok i'll try with those replacement first..for the fetchland maybe i'll have some trouble for cost..about 10€/each... :(

-4 voidslime > +4 Counterspell .... easy ;D

-1/2 Echoing truth > +1/2 Wash Out

+4 Spell Pierce

for the last 2 slot i prefer Rancor...cose if i have a huge coatl/Dryad i'll prefer my creature will trample opponent's ones rather then drawing another one....maybe i'm wrong..

Moreover Rancor doesn't make card disadvantage avoiding some cases of 2x1( with spot removals) or bouncing effects and is less mana intensive then casting another coalt leaving some mana free to be spent on counters or other cantrips for the win.
obviously IMHO...

[(nameless one)]

Spell Pierce would be really good if you dont have any Force of Wills.

[eq.firemind]

for the last 2 slot i prefer Rancor...cose if i have a huge coatl/Dryad i'll prefer my creature will trample opponent's ones rather then drawing another one....maybe i'm wrong..

Moreover Rancor doesn't make card disadvantage avoiding some cases of 2x1( with spot removals) or bouncing effects and is less mana intensive then casting another coalt leaving some mana free to be spent on counters or other cantrips for the win.
obviously IMHO...
First of all, you need more threats. 6 is too low number.
Now, the situation: you landed one of your six threats and opponent killed it on spot. Now instead of another creature you drew Rancor...
And 90% times your creature will be hit by removal spell in response to Rancor, making it 2 for 1.
You may test it if you will, but with only 6 creatures Rancor will be a dead card 99% of times.

[TheG]

First of all, you need more threats. 6 is too low number.
Now, the situation: you landed one of your six threats and opponent killed it on spot. Now instead of another creature you drew Rancor...
And 90% times your creature will be hit by removal spell in response to Rancor, making it 2 for 1.
You may test it if you will, but with only 6 creatures Rancor will be a dead card 99% of times.

mh.. you're right..however also with 8 creatures i sill feel the need for something evasive...this deck is not a full aggro so i can't count on massive attack.. otherwise a global bouncing (like the wash out i posted before )could be equally effective. the problem of the washout is the color choice..a good percent of aggro are green based (thx goblin :D) so we are bouncing our creatures as well... :(

Eq.fireming, i'm not angry with you, i'm only explaining my thinking for learn something :D , i appreciate very much your advices :D

Nameless One, thx you too, Spell Pirce implemented yet ;)(Forces are very expensive...maybe will come later) any other suggestion?

[kiblast]

in my opinion you should really look at canadian 3esh lists.
your deck really seems a subpar version of countertop thresh.
first of all 3 library are often a dead card. You already play 3 tops, and if you go -3 library +1 top you can have the same deck filtering skills while pumping your coatl if you need to. Also dropping a first turn top is much more important than turn 2 library.
Now you have 2 empty slots: +1 coatl and +1 dryad, since 6 creatures with no protection in legacy is suicide.
Also 4 voidslime seem pretty useless if you don't include wasteland, i mean if you want to shut down EE, Academy ruins, Pernicious it's ok, but let's be honest the main target of stifle effects in legacy are fetchlands (if you don't play Nought of course)...and it's a very sub par combination since you can play stifle.
So -4 voidslime + 4 stifle. This combination also lets you play daze even midgame .

Rancor and favor of the overbeing as stated above will make so much 2x1 in favor of your opponent....

Throw in some fetches.
-4 bouncers +4 spell pierce/spell snare is a good idea if you can't afford fows. Even Rune snag is better than a simple bouncer. If you only have 4 slots for counterspell, i would play 4 rune snag all day long. If you can go up to 6 slots, 3 spell pierce and 3 snare are a good combination. With only 4 slots is not worth to have the 2/2 split so snag is a much better option since provides an overall answer to everything.

[sporenfrosch1411]

I'd go up to playing 4 Sensei's Divining Top because even if you draw a second one, that means that your Coatl can get a +1/+1 counter for 1 mana.
( put top on top, draw the top with the other top and play the first top again ->1 mana)

But in general this looks like a bad Supreme Blue / Canadian List to me :/

[kiblast]

I'd go up to playing 4 Sensei's Divining Top because even if you draw a second one, that means that your Coatl can get a +1/+1 counter for 1 mana.
( put top on top, draw the top with the other top and play the first top again ->1 mana)

But in general this looks like a bad Supreme Blue / Canadian List to me :/

you could also have read above comments (like mine) and simply quote.... :)

[TheG]

ok here we are:


// Creatures
4 [10E] Quirion Dryad
4 [ARB] Lorescale Coatl

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [NE] Daze
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [CS] Rune Snag

// total: 40
//for the counters i preferred 1U ones to avoid mana screw, infact i moved to a 18 land configuration like the most of canadian ******** decks...this change gives 2 more free slot in the main, what shoud i pick?

x2 Nimble Mongoose
// 2 more threats but i'm not running red for bolts, fire\ice etc. or withe for sword o path...so i'm not sure to activate ******** in few turns and have a mongoose at the same time.

x2 Counterspell
x2 mana leak
x2 Turn Aside
- other countes -
// damn i have already 4+4+4+4= 16 counters manideck + CounterTop, is that not enough? however what do you think about Turn Aside like?

x2 Echoing Truth
x2 Wipe Away
// every 3shold deck i saw was running almost 2 bouncers ...they could be helpfull...Wipe seems to be slow a little and the UU sacres ;)

x2 Preordain
x2 Sylvan Library
// more manipulation - creature growing utility

x2 Birds of paradise
//or some kind of booster... maybe it has to be in x3 or x4 to be effective

x2 Regrowth
// multipurpose utility


Thaks to all for helping :D

[Blackmagic]

some other cards to consider, maybe:

Trinket mage (you can play one less top and add pithing needle + engineered explosives toolbox)
trygon predator ( very annoying for opponents and often will have to be dealt with)
cold-eyed selkie (synergy with lorescale)
umezawe jitte (blast your way clear for your creatures)
Ohran viper (pretty good synergy, draws cards and deathtouch against bigger tarmogoyfs)

for cheap lands try out flooded groves could be pretty decent if you're on a budget.
my 2 cents

[Meekrab]

Is adding black for Psychatog and Night's Whisper and some kind of removal an option? As it is your outs to a resolved Tarmogoyf are: blocking. :( Grow critters and Tog tend to get along well, because you grow them by casting Tog food. I'd probably cut Daze and Rune Snag, since you aren't really playing a Tempo-oriented gameplan, but more of a midrange 'huge beasties' type deal. And maybe go down to 3 Counterbalance, since it doesn't do all that much in multiples. Voila:


3 Forest
5 Island
2 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Evolving Wilds
(those can be Misty Rainforest/ Polluted Delta if you have them)

4 Lorescale Coatl
4 Quirion Dryad
2 Psychatog

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Night's Whisper

4 Spell Snare
4 Spell Pierce

Which leaves

4 Removal/Utility (bounce, creature kill, maybe Trygon Predator?)

Just a thought.

[muscleb]

Hey, first time poster here. I made a deck myself recently that resembles the ones posted here.

4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
2 Jace Beleren
4 Lorescale Coatl
4 Noble Hierarch
Creatures [14]
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
3 Into the Roil
4 Mana Leak
4 Rune Snag
3 Spell Pierce
3 Spreading Seas
2 Sylvan Library
Spells [26]
4 Flooded Grove
6 Forest
6 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
Lands [20]

Its quite possible to add the counter top combo to this deck if needed. The cool thing about this deck is the interactions between the noble, selkie and spreading seas.

Btw, I am not sure how to link the cards correctly. Could use som help thanks :)

[Qweerios]

This is the budget U/G list I made for my friend a while back and he did take a few games off of my legacy decks since.


4 Quirion Dryad
4 Lorescale Coatl
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
2 Trygon Predator

2 Rancor
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
4 Counterspell

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
10 Island

[Tainted]

I really like grow deck decks, but i think that nowadays Quirion Dryad grow too slowly to be a competitive creature, Cold-Eyed Selkie is just useless in legacy with all the blocker/creature removal of this format, Lorescale Coatl instead is great it takes +3/+3 each turn from Sylvan Library and another +3/+3 from Brainstorm, he is our ace and he become really big in no time, all we need to do is search him and protect him.
Green Sun's Zenith may help us to tutor it and grant us that it will not be countered, maybe some kind of accelerator like noble hierarch will help us to spell up a little and her exalted is also good.
Another Great card would be Jace, the Mind Sculptor, but we are in the budget forum than i think it's out of question have him
What do you think about inser Words of Wind for some board control, or Words of Wilding or if you want to splash with red Words of War, we draw a lot then we can just make all that draw even more usefull with all that words.
Another thought is "is really counterbalance a good choice nowadays?" with all the krosan grip (many decks run green only for tarmogoyf+krosan in sb) and Qasali Pridemage can it alone protect our beast?

[TheSleeper]

I made a similar deck recently just for casual purposes out of cards I had spare. Its a pretty standard UG Madness with Coatl deck. Anyways the one big thing I think you should be changing is dropping Rancor and fitting in 2 x Wonder. With all your manipulation you can easily find it and it makes your army fly over the top. Maybe you could go for something like:

4 Rootwalla
4 Hierarch
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Fauna Shaman
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Coatl
2 Wonder

3 SDT
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
2 Sylvan Library

8 Island
8 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest

[Zabov]

This is a list I'm trying to make competitive ever since I saw Lorescale Coatl for the first time...


3x Lorescale Coatl
4x Rhox War Monk
4x Werebear
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Repeal
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Force of Will
3x Mental Misstep
3x Daze
1x Sylvan Library
2x Rancor
2x Tropical Island
4x Misty Rainforest
6x Island
4x Forest
2x Plains
2x Terramorphic Expanse
2x Seaside Citadel

Obviously is not so low-budget and there are some little imperfections like only 1x of Sylvan Library... But I took my list just to bring some ideas. Let's start from the cards:

3x Lorescale Coatl
Our Man. It gets big just from the draw step itself but is more powerful than that. With draw capabilities of the blue it becomes enormous in a blink. So why only 3x ? Cause you really don't need to see him so much. One of these monsters on the ground is generally sufficient to victoriously have a walk over your's opponent teeth... What you really need is to sneak it into play and protect him AND survive in the process. That's why I also play

4x Rhox War Monk
A power house. His solid body outs him outside from the range of standard combat damage or single bolt-like effects. Its lifelink ability lets you stay alive and turns a surely lost game into a victory. I actually won more games for RWM than the Coatl thanks to life gain :P

4x Werebear
mana acceleration that become a 4/4 in late game. Very useful, especially in a deck like this where you need your lands open for draw spells.

4x StP
the reason I splashed White

2x Repeal
Awsome to get rid of that creature that could block your one-hit-win snake :P Also draws you a card AND pumps the coatl for 1.

4x FoW
Do I really have to explain?

3x MM
3x Daze
I found that the optimal balance between these counters is this one. They are wonderful in early negation of your opponent game putting you in a good advantage.

4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
Being attacked by two 5/6 tarmo. blocking one with your 3/3 coatl AND playing a brainstorm. Getting from the brainstorm a repeal and playing it on the unblocked tarmo. Priceless :D :D

1x Sylvan Library
+3/+3 on your coatl every turn for free AND library manipulation? Thanks please! Alas I possess only one of this gem :P

2x rancor
Very ggod evasion trick that also pumps your creatures and jumps back in your hand if the creature doesn't survive. I know auras shouldn't be played for many reasons but is the cheapest way I found to make evasive my coatl and at the same time to get it bigger.

... Lands ...
Well, these are quite obvious and what I put in my list is what I actually have, so... I'd really love to have almost another 2x of tropical and 4x of windswept heath instead of 2x forest and the expanse and the seaside citadel (very slow for they come into play tapped)

To make my deck more budget I'd cut the FoW for 4x counterspell, and 2x tropical for 2x island. The rest is pretty cheap.