Ooze + Phyrexian Devourer question

[GGoober]

Supposed Necrotic Ooze is in play with Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer is in the yard.

First to confirm the commonly known combo:

You activate Ooze copying Phyrexian Devourer's ability. Devourer's oracle text reads "Exile the top card of your library: Put X +1/+1 counters on Phyrexian Devourer, where X is the exiled card's converted mana cost. If Phyrexian Devourer's power is 7 or greater, sacrifice it."

You avoid killing the Ooze by always ensuring that it never gets more than seven +1/+1 counter am I right? Either by reactivating the ability to put up to less than seven counters on Ooze, or to remove counters in between activations to stock up more?

Now the next question that I'm about to ask.

Suppose I activate Ooze multiple times, each time being in response, and before I resolve the big stack of activations, I Extirpate/Relic of Progenitus my Devourer away from the GY. Would the Ooze still get the +1/+1 counters? If it does, would it still die due to "If Phyrexian Devourer's power is 7 or greater, sacrifice it." even though the Devourer is now gone while the stack of activation resolves?

[Atwa]

It would, since the ability is already on the stack. Even if the source of an ability is no longer in play (or in this case, the grave) an ability on the stack will still resolve unless it's countered for a lack of legal targets.

For some reason, the power 7 or higher clause has been added to the activated ability, so even if Devourer is removed from the game, your Ooze still dies.

[f|i[p]]

Since its already here, I might as well ask away....

If I had a necrotic ooze in play already, I'm assuming that people would really have a hard time disrupting the combo with faeri macabre.Since removing devourer or triskelion can just be responded to with a survival activation to get another piece then discard that piece again to start the combo.

Am I right in assuming this?

[luma]

You can do that, or you can just respond to the Faerie Macabre ability by just using the Devourer ability again.

[Tempus]

Still about the power thing of Phyrexian Devourer:

The activated ability of Phyrexian Devourer would cause you to sacrifice it, if it's power is bigger than 7. Transfered to the Ooze this means you would have to sacrifice it, if you remove a card with cmc > 2.
But then this combo would suck. So I'm assuming the "trick" here is that you have to sacrifice Phyrexian Devourer, but the card activating the ability is Necrotic Ooze so this clause gets circumvented. Am I right?

[scrumdogg]

No you are not, the Ooze has gained the entire activated ability of the Devourer, the 'naming' of the card doesn't matter. And as for interrupting the combo in progress, you need to use a Split Second spell or the combo-ing player will simply respond to the spell/ability on the stack with a stream of further activations. The exception would be something similar to what happened here last weekend. Player A is playing Vengevival with Ooze combo and is trying to kill Player B with the combo. The game has gone for a while and Player B is at 36 life (Thopter Control) and has 2x STP in hand. Player B responds at several points in the combo to a 'successful' activation (CMC >2) by casting STP. Player responds to the spell on stack with further activations...but only ends up doing 35 damage before running out of library and having an STP resolve :)

[cdr]

Am I right?

No - Ooze has the activated abilities, it's Necrotic Ooze's ability.

The trick is that the card is revealed when you activate the ability, but the counters and sacrifice don't happen until the ability resolves. If you reveal something that would cause the sacrifice (CMC > 2 for Ooze), you can respond by activating the ability again. When you get a 1 or 2, you let the ability resolve and then use the Triskelion ability or the like to get rid of the counters. You can go through the rest of your deck stacking activations until you hit enough 1s and 2s.

[thranmonster]

No - Ooze has the activated abilities, it's Necrotic Ooze's ability.

The trick is that the card is revealed when you activate the ability, but the counters and sacrifice don't happen until the ability resolves. If you reveal something that would cause the sacrifice (CMC > 2 for Ooze), you can respond by activating the ability again. When you get a 1 or 2, you let the ability resolve and then use the Triskelion ability or the like to get rid of the counters. You can go through the rest of your deck stacking activations until you hit enough 1s and 2s.

First of all, I think this is a nifty combo. Just clarifying so I can get it, if I remove a card that had 4cc (something that would push the Ooze's power to 7 or higher), I would just need to do the ability again until I can get a 1 or 2cc card and let that one resolve? And wipe them off with the triskelion ability. What would happen to the 4cc card?

[GGoober]

It will resolve eventually depending if you are still activating in response to it. If you let it resolve, Ooze will die.

So suppose your opponent is at 10 life. You activate Ooze combo, flip a 4cmc, in response you activate it again to prevent the Ooze from dying. As long as your opponent is still alive, you will want to flip cards to ping him, and if you flip any card with CMC 3+, you need to reactivate to prevent Ooze from dying. After your opponent is dead, you win. If your opponent does not die after you exhausted your activations (e.g. Library used up), then each activation on the stack will be resolved, and the Ooze will die to whichever's the last CMC 3+ activation once that resolves.

[freakish777]

What would happen to the 4cc card?

It is exiled as part of the cost. It remains exiled regardless of whether or not the ability actually resolves.

So, in the event you have exhausted your library and haven't killed your opponent, and you have 10 activations of Ooze's Phyrexian Devourer ability left on the stack, the first one resolves putting say 5 +1/+1 counters on him (you Exiled a Force of Will), and then forcing you to sacrifice Ooze, you then have 9 activations left that are countered due to the card no longer being in play (but you already paid their cost, which was Exiling those cards).

[luma]

It is exiled as part of the cost. It remains exiled regardless of whether or not the ability actually resolves.

So, in the event you have exhausted your library and haven't killed your opponent, and you have 10 activations of Ooze's Phyrexian Devourer ability left on the stack, the first one resolves putting say 5 +1/+1 counters on him (you Exiled a Force of Will), and then forcing you to sacrifice Ooze, you then have 9 activations left that are countered due to the card no longer being in play (but you already paid their cost, which was Exiling those cards).

Actually, they won't be countered, the abilities resolve but don't do anything because ooze isn't on the battlefield anymore.