[Article]: In the Lab - Legacy Transformers

[piZZero]

The In the Lab articles are a series of texts that speak about innovative strategies that could work perfectly in a defined metagame. Given the current meta, filled with Survivals, Vengevines, Goyfs and such, Transformers (as I like to call it) seems like a fun but solid deck based on the milling strategy. Wait, what? Milling? Did that ever work? All those questions get their answers in the article, that covers almost every aspect of a deck design: History, Maindeck structure, Mana sources, tutors, creatures, etc.. Sideboard options, and finally 10 sample hands and how they were played.

I really hope you guys enjoy this bite of freshness:

[Article]: In the Lab - Legacy Transformers. By Jordi Amat (http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=1163)

Cheers!

piZZero - Jordi Amat

[ReAnimator]

Cool article and a really fun deck.

I can't help but wonder why you don't run force, it's not like you can't support it.

I'm also curious about the Champion, isn't something like Thopter Sword a better plan B? it's in colour and you have tutors for it and it takes up less space.

I think a lot of your tutor targets are a little redundant like meekstone and ensnaring bridge, why run both?

Are answers to problems like pithing needle really better than catch all bounce spells or something? you are the proactive one who can win at any time, why sit back and play a controlling long game?

I think it would be pretty easy to trim some cards and just run +4 Force +2 Thopter foundry, and +1 Sword. I think that would give you a way stronger deck.

I think the shell and engine and main idea are really cool and strong, i think it just needs some tweaking.

[piZZero]

Thanks a lot for your comments.

The deck is on a very Beta stage. I'm sure it can be improved a lot and there's plenty of room for that in this deck. As you said "Why not run Force of Will?, Why not run Thopters/Sword? Why running Champions?, etc...". Personally, I treat this deck (as you said) with a very proactive approach. It can win you the game any turn, any time. BUT, a deck also needs to be able to recover from a bad situation (lost too many spells to multiple counterspells, or got couple lands destroyed, etc...), and for that I like cards like Ensnaring Bridge, Meekstone or Etched Champion. Speaking of which, EC (same initials as Eternal Central, so that's a +1 xD) has won me several games thanks to the excellent evasion he has. I aso thought of the possibility of running 1 single Sword of Fire/Ice to speed up the beat down with champions if needed.

If you desire, we can open a thread to talk about the deck, improve it and discuss possible options. I'd love to see more Transformer lists!

[ScatmanX]

Very nice deck. Looks a lot fun!

How does it deal with a deck that SnT decks that run 4 Emrakul though?
Thanks.

[LordEvilTeaCup]

Very nice deck. Looks a lot fun!

How does it deal with a deck that SnT decks that run 4 Emrakul though?
Thanks.

He addresses that in the article.

[ScatmanX]

He addresses that in the article.

I can see 1 Tormod's solving the problem of 1 Emrakul.
Can't see how he deals with 4...
Edit: Oh! Not on the article, but on the comments! Thanks for pointing that out.

[majikal]

I can see 1 Tormod's solving the problem of 1 Emrakul.
Can't see how he deals with 4...
Edit: Oh! Not on the article, but on the comments! Thanks for pointing that out.
Why wouldn't it take care of all of them? They all go into the graveyard from one activation and trigger at the same time, then you nuke them with Crypt.

[PanderAlexander]

Cool deck Jordi, I definitly see it improving. Can't wait to see pictures of this deck pimped out :)

[jazzykat]

I worked on something similiar in June of this year with a team mate. The big problem was lots of creature removal, a lot of counterspells, faster combo, and progenitus/Emrakrul (much easier to get around). Thanks to the downswing of combo, the most popular decks having less and less removal, and decks with lots of counterspells often losing, the decline of fatty decks/Natural Order somewhat, and the errata of TA to not be a 2:1 if countered this deck has much more potential than 4 months ago.

My biggest critique is that I'm not sure if I would ever play 4 of anything legendary unless it won me the game.

[Doomsday]

and the errata of TA to not be a 2:1 if countered this deck has much more potential than 4 months ago.

This errata pisses me off. Nature's Claim, Disenchant, Naturalize, Qasali Pridemage, et al. now counter it.

[jazzykat]

This errata pisses me off. Nature's Claim, Disenchant, Naturalize, Qasali Pridemage, et al. now counter it.

Yes and no...before the sac was part of the cost so any counterspell 2 for 1'ed you. While now an artifact destruction card will cut off one option if you have multiple artifacts in play you can still get something.

[ReAnimator]

Thanks a lot for your comments.

The deck is on a very Beta stage. I'm sure it can be improved a lot and there's plenty of room for that in this deck. As you said "Why not run Force of Will?, Why not run Thopters/Sword? Why running Champions?, etc...". Personally, I treat this deck (as you said) with a very proactive approach. It can win you the game any turn, any time. BUT, a deck also needs to be able to recover from a bad situation (lost too many spells to multiple counterspells, or got couple lands destroyed, etc...), and for that I like cards like Ensnaring Bridge, Meekstone or Etched Champion. Speaking of which, EC (same initials as Eternal Central, so that's a +1 xD) has won me several games thanks to the excellent evasion he has. I aso thought of the possibility of running 1 single Sword of Fire/Ice to speed up the beat down with champions if needed.

If you desire, we can open a thread to talk about the deck, improve it and discuss possible options. I'd love to see more Transformer lists!

If you want to open a thread go for it, if you could provide a link here though as i mostly just visit this part of the forum.

Etched champion does evade well but so will thopter tokens, and they will be a faster clock and pad your life total better, other than the casting cost, to me it looks like a strict upgrade, i just don't see 2/2 beats being a very good plan B, though a SoFI would help with that, i'm not sure if that's really the path you want to go down, as you can't equip it if you have a painter in play =(

I agree that you need some answers in here, i'm definitely not advocating no answers, i just think that you shouldn't have redundant answers or so many of them even if you have lots of ways to find them, i think Meekstone and Bridge do the same thing, and one is clearly better than the other.

[piZZero]

I've done the following changes to the deck and it's even more sick :D

-4 Etched Champion
-1 Meekstone (even though I love this card due to the low cost it has and the ability of Trinket mage to fetch for it)

+3 Tezzeret the Seeker
+1 Voltaic Key
+1 Sensei's Divining Top

Voltaic Key is awesome while in play and it allows pretty cool tricks with Top and Monoliths. And the Tezzeret the Seekers are the nuts in the deck! They can be easily played on turn 2 and fetch absolutely anything. And it's a true plan B of the deck. On the mid/late game, Untap artifacts and get the horde of artifacts to do the job for you.

I'm still not convinced yet about Thopter/Sword as we are adding another 2 card combo here but as a plan B. Plans B need to be easy to obtain because we probably come from a position (bad situation) where we are still recovering from.

[ReAnimator]

Tezz seems like a fine plan B, and helps a lot with plan A, it is probably better than Thopter, nice thinking on that one.

Key will need some testing, i'm thinking it will be fine when it comes up naturally but probably something you never want to tutor for.

[Sigar]

I haven't tested the matchup, but it looks like aggro decks like zoo will crush you. Especially if they play pridemage. Have you considered wrath in the board?

Brainstorm without fetch lands seems sketchy.

Nice deck btw! I like the basic concept.

[ReAnimator]

I haven't tested the matchup, but it looks like aggro decks like zoo will crush you. Especially if they play pridemage. Have you considered wrath in the board?

Brainstorm without fetch lands seems sketchy.

Nice deck btw! I like the basic concept.

You still have 12 shuffle effects.

[Sigar]

Turn 1 or 2 brainstorm digging for land/whatever is such a key play, that counting trinket mage and transmute artifact as good shuffle effects would be fairly misleading. Brainstorm is so important to avoid mana flood or screw, and also to get rid of spare moxes etc., which means you must have a shuffle effect.

It's easy to cut the lone (path to exile) island and the city of traitors for 2 fetch lands. I would play more lands, so cutting 1-2 cards for 2 more fetchlands would be ideal.

[Sigar]

Have you guys considered Auriok Salvagers for this deck? 1 Spellbomb + 1 Lion's Eye Diamond and you are good to go!

[Rico Suave]

I played a few games against this deck, and I must admit that it seems incomplete without Force of Will. There are enough blue cards to support it, it fits into the deck's strategy perfectly, and it's one of the strongest cards ever printed. What is the reasoning not to include this card?

[piZZero]

I played a few games against this deck, and I must admit that it seems incomplete without Force of Will. There are enough blue cards to support it, it fits into the deck's strategy perfectly, and it's one of the strongest cards ever printed. What is the reasoning not to include this card?

To me it seems like a terrible topdeck when you'll likely have 1/2 of your combo already in play/hand. This deck works similar to the (Vintage) Steel City Vault, where you throw bomb after bomb and if you run out of gas, then you draw7. Here you have plenty of bombs, and if you run out of gas you play a sick amount of tutors that will ensure you find more bombs. That's my theory behind the decission.

I'm sure some guys have already tested the deck, and I'd like to know their feelings about the FoW matter. Personally I never felt the need for them, and even though I've got 1,2 or more bombs countered, I've managed to win the game.

[android]

A couple cards that might be considered:

Reshape
Artificer's Intuition

Reshape might be a bit weak due to Sorcery speed but it does offer the versatility of fetching a wider variety of cc. And again, in it's defense, for 3 mana, it does the same thing as Trinket Mage but it puts the artifact into play. You can argue about what happens if it gets countered or that you can't play X cost artifacts like you can with TM tutors, etc. I've seen these cards in for TM as you don't really care about the body and in AI's case, it's at least repeatable.

[piZZero]

A couple cards that might be considered:

Reshape
Artificer's Intuition

Reshape might be a bit weak due to Sorcery speed but it does offer the versatility of fetching a wider variety of cc. And again, in it's defense, for 3 mana, it does the same thing as Trinket Mage but it puts the artifact into play. You can argue about what happens if it gets countered or that you can't play X cost artifacts like you can with TM tutors, etc. I've seen these cards in for TM as you don't really care about the body and in AI's case, it's at least repeatable.

You do really care about the body, as trinket mage is an excellent blocker that might save you 1-2 turns sometimes. His body also provides an alternative way of winning. It happens rarely, but I can assure you I've won more than one game beating down with the 2/2's and the 1/3's.

[android]

You do really care about the body, as trinket mage is an excellent blocker that might save you 1-2 turns sometimes. His body also provides an alternative way of winning. It happens rarely, but I can assure you I've won more than one game beating down with the 2/2's and the 1/3's.

Yes, I've won with Trinket Mage before and I suppose that is his saving grace otherwise we would all be playing Fabricate (ha, or not). Reshape either loses you an artifact in play or can't be cast for lack of an artifact (not likely to happen with this deck) but if you're going to win the turn it resolves, that shouldn't matter. So there's certainly a trade-off there.

Artificer's Intuition is Survival for artifacts with a significant drawback (1 or less). So vs. Trinket Mage, you have a breakdown of;

Repeatability -> advantage AI
Body -> advantage TM (fog, bear, whatever)
Card Advantage -> advantage TM
Creature vs Enchantment -> draw, maybe slight advantage to TM in Survival meta
Cost -> draw

Not sure how often you need to tutor more than once but I get the impression that this deck isn't really going to want to stick around and duke it out with a dedicated aggro deck (is that advantage TM or AI?). Mini beatdown plan would not even be in the playbook if I were piloting this deck but this is Legacy so strange things can happen. I'll put the deck together and get a feel for whether I'd rather try the blind rush to combo or if I feel comfortable slow rolling it.

I trust that your experience with the deck makes you the expert so I'm just tossing in ideas you may have already considered and discarded. I like the general strategy and it's close to the type of decks I prefer to play (semi-stable combo decks with utility). I don't really like to win over several turns, rather all at once.

[Rico Suave]

To me it seems like a terrible topdeck when you'll likely have 1/2 of your combo already in play/hand. This deck works similar to the (Vintage) Steel City Vault, where you throw bomb after bomb and if you run out of gas, then you draw7. Here you have plenty of bombs, and if you run out of gas you play a sick amount of tutors that will ensure you find more bombs. That's my theory behind the decission.

I'm sure some guys have already tested the deck, and I'd like to know their feelings about the FoW matter. Personally I never felt the need for them, and even though I've got 1,2 or more bombs countered, I've managed to win the game.

That deck also has Force of Will.

Your reason to not include Force is because it's...a terrible topdeck? Then why does every other blue deck in the format run a full 4 copies of it? Because they can afford bad topdecks? I'm confused.

[dahcmai]

I tried the list out today verbatim and I can see why he doesn't want Force. You really never seem to want it aside from Combo matches, though I think it's going to end up being a necessary evil. You can't afford to have some commonly played things hit the table even if you can get rid of them multiple times. I ended up taking out the Champions for them and felt a little comfortable doing so. It did help a lot with GW survival and the multiple pridemages. My largest whine about doing that is not having the largest target for transmute in.

I like the Meekstone in this a lot. Truly inventive card to fetch up. It was well worth it's slot. i would like a better way to get Academy ruins though. I think a single or 2 Tolaria Wests might be in order. At worst it gets Moxes, Synods, and EE so it's not too bad. I'll try 1 for a starter. I figure it will stay at that number, but I will try 2 if it works out well.

Artificer's Intuition might be worth it if you play Humility instead of Meekstone as creature control. It slows most creature decks to a crawl if you slam it down fast enough. Humility also allows a Painter's servant to still work. Layer 5 is where painter is and Humility is layer 6&7 so it trumps it if you were wondering. Intuition would have to replace Trinket Mage if you go this route and that really sucks so it's probably not worth going in that direction, but it's a thought. E Tutor does bring it up which is nice.

Goblin Welder is a serious thought. You already are serious wasteland bait so why not go the whole route and add red. He seems pretty silly. At the very worst he takes some heat off the servant for bolts and swords. I'd add a singleton Sundering titan at that point. Transmute my mox, geddon you. Oh is synod not an island? How bout that.

[piZZero]

@Rico Suave: Vintage is a total different style than Legacy. In Vintage you can't affort not running FoWs unless you either lock your opponent in turn 1-2 (MUD) or win consistently on turn 2 (DREDGE). When MUD runs out of gas, what does the deck do? Topdeck. If topdecks are bombs, MUD chances to win increase notably, and obviously MUD would never like to see a card like a Force of Will in this deck (independently of the card color requirements, etc...). DREDGE works different though, as its engine is recursive and self feeds by dredging the same dredgers again and again. Both MUD and DREDGE are aware that an opponent FoW can ruin their early game and to stop that they don't pack FoWs, right? They just need to keep putting preasure by throwing more bombs or speeding up their clock.

Steel City Vault runs Force of Will because it can't afford losing turn 1/2 VS Vault Key, Multiple Spheres, etc... Vintage is a much more complex format than Legacy. We all love the sentence "Vintage is the format where broken things happen". That sentence resumes a bit the essence of the format and explains why most of the decks need FoW.

On the other hand, Legacy is a total different format and really predictable. With transformers you can expect a turn 1 Daze, turn 2 Counterbalance and a Force of Will, and still win without much troubles. Why? Because the guy that plays all that hate will probably NEVER kill you in a short amount of turns. The deck runs so much gas in form of combo pieces, tutors and enablers (BS & Thoughtcast) that it doesn't really care about your opponent counterwall. You have triple the amount of bombs than he's got counters, so, all you wanna do is find them and be able to play them (that's why we play lot of Moxen, monoliths, etc...).

As dahcmai mentioned: You really never seem to want it aside from Combo matches. And why is that? Because ANT/TES/(Belcher) is probably the only deck in the format that could consistently kill you before you do. No other deck in the format presents a thread to Transformers that couldn't be addressed with the solutions that we've packed in.

I hope my answered helped understand why I don't like FoW in this deck and why Transformers performs that well and is such a thread for the other decks in Legacy.

[Rico Suave]

You talk about having enablers and tutors and gas and business. You act as if you are going to overwhelm a counterwall with sheer numbers. I understand this and in many instances I enjoy this approach. But not here. Let me explain.

Most blue decks are not sitting behind a wall of counterspells, they are sitting behind Counter/Top. In these instances, does it matter that you have a Grindstone, E.Tutor, and Brainstorm? No, because you are still not going to get that Grindstone into play. In a sense, a resolved CB/Top is very close to GG for this deck. Force allows you to fight over the CB and prevent it from entering play.

The strategy focuses on the goal so much that is has become narrow, and what I mean is that you have a lot of tutoring to find the Painter/Stone combo but this leaves the strategy susceptible to unanticipated defenses. You may be able to overwhelm 2 counters, but what do you do about a single counter backing a Pithing Needle naming Grindstone? Now the fight is no longer about your cards but it is instead about your opponent's cards. All the Transmute Artifacts and Grindstones in the world won't save you from that Needle, but a Force would.

And of course there are some decks that are just faster and your only defense is a prayer.

These are all examples of the same thing: sometimes you have to deal with your opponent's cards even if they're not directly killing you. And a single EE is woefully inadequate.

[piZZero]

The Pithing needle case was brought into discussion yesterday by some mates too, and we agreed that in the end it's not that big of a thread as you can recursively get rid of it via EE and Academy Ruins. Testing prove we were right cause the deck is capable to overcome that maindeck needle with no troubles. You also have to think that, it's lot easier for us to find the answer to a Pithing Needle (or any other thread) than for them to actually get it.

One of the issues we've found that the deck needs to address is that sometimes it could be hard to find the Ruins, so, we are thinking of adding 1-2 Tolaria West to see how they work. IF, you can't get rid of that Pithing needle, you shouldn't worry that much, seriously. I don't think the trade you are making here is worth adding the Fows, I mean, when you pitch a "Brainstorm/Transmute Artifact/Thoughtcast/Trinket Mage" to FoW, you are pitching cards that are (or potentially can be) giving the answer to that Pithing Needle. So, we agreed that, depending on the situation and the gas that still remains on your hand it's good to get rid of the needle, but sometimes you just start setting up your plan B. Current version of the deck plays 3 Tezzeret main deck which provide such a good alternative way to win.

The CB case is addressed the exact same way. If the situation allows you to solve the problem -> Trinket Mage for EE, and cast EE for 2 paying 4-5 mana (which you usually can), then go for it. Else, play around it the best way you can and start setting up the plan B while you secure the board before (start getting Bridge, etc...). The sideboard usually provides answers to that kind of matchups and should always focus on those pairings (like CounterTop) that present more troubles. I'm currently playing Seal of Cleansing due to its inmunity to Null Rod, but a fetchable Dispeller's Capsule could also be a great addition to the Transmute Artifact Kit :)

Anyways, I totally understand your concerns about the fact that the deck runs no Fows but, you need to play it a bit the deck to understand that they aren't excellent in this build (notice I said "In this deck", FoW is probably one of the best cards of all times), the same way it's not excellent in MUD/Dredge/Belcher/etc... Not because you are playing blue means you have to play FoWs.

[dahcmai]

If you really stop and think about it, Etched Champion is actually a decent answer to counterbalance. It's 3 mana, comes down really fast, and doesn't die to much of anything from a CB deck. Only the BUG Landstill can kill it with any regularity. Amusing as hell if you think about it. They don't run wrath too often. Dumping a Dreadnought from a Dreadstill deck is the best answer? Funny. Though the sword thopter versions can probably keep up with not much problem. Stupid lifegain.

I think I am going to put the Forces in the board alongside some Ethersworns for storm and belcher. EC isn't all that bad. It looks like crap on paper, I will admit that. It just sticks out like a sore thumb and says "this is crap, pull me" and then you play it and realize how handy it can be. It's really funny.

Anyway, tournament day today so I'll write more when I get home.

[Rico Suave]

If you really stop and think about it, Etched Champion is actually a decent answer to counterbalance. It's 3 mana, comes down really fast, and doesn't die to much of anything from a CB deck. Only the BUG Landstill can kill it with any regularity. Amusing as hell if you think about it. They don't run wrath too often. Dumping a Dreadnought from a Dreadstill deck is the best answer? Funny. Though the sword thopter versions can probably keep up with not much problem. Stupid lifegain.

I think I am going to put the Forces in the board alongside some Ethersworns for storm and belcher. EC isn't all that bad. It looks like crap on paper, I will admit that. It just sticks out like a sore thumb and says "this is crap, pull me" and then you play it and realize how handy it can be. It's really funny.

Anyway, tournament day today so I'll write more when I get home.

Etched Champion was a non-factor in my games. Mishra's Factory held it at bay with ease.


The Pithing needle case was brought into discussion yesterday by some mates too, and we agreed that in the end it's not that big of a thread as you can recursively get rid of it via EE and Academy Ruins. Testing prove we were right cause the deck is capable to overcome that maindeck needle with no troubles. You also have to think that, it's lot easier for us to find the answer to a Pithing Needle (or any other thread) than for them to actually get it.

One of the issues we've found that the deck needs to address is that sometimes it could be hard to find the Ruins, so, we are thinking of adding 1-2 Tolaria West to see how they work. IF, you can't get rid of that Pithing needle, you shouldn't worry that much, seriously. I don't think the trade you are making here is worth adding the Fows, I mean, when you pitch a "Brainstorm/Transmute Artifact/Thoughtcast/Trinket Mage" to FoW, you are pitching cards that are (or potentially can be) giving the answer to that Pithing Needle. So, we agreed that, depending on the situation and the gas that still remains on your hand it's good to get rid of the needle, but sometimes you just start setting up your plan B. Current version of the deck plays 3 Tezzeret main deck which provide such a good alternative way to win.

The CB case is addressed the exact same way. If the situation allows you to solve the problem -> Trinket Mage for EE, and cast EE for 2 paying 4-5 mana (which you usually can), then go for it. Else, play around it the best way you can and start setting up the plan B while you secure the board before (start getting Bridge, etc...). The sideboard usually provides answers to that kind of matchups and should always focus on those pairings (like CounterTop) that present more troubles. I'm currently playing Seal of Cleansing due to its inmunity to Null Rod, but a fetchable Dispeller's Capsule could also be a great addition to the Transmute Artifact Kit :)

Anyways, I totally understand your concerns about the fact that the deck runs no Fows but, you need to play it a bit the deck to understand that they aren't excellent in this build (notice I said "In this deck", FoW is probably one of the best cards of all times), the same way it's not excellent in MUD/Dredge/Belcher/etc... Not because you are playing blue means you have to play FoWs.

It's not even just about Pithing Needle. If your opponent can do *anything* meaningful, you will want to stop it. If your opponent is half decent and includes cards that can force interaction with you, it is to your benefit to play Force of Will.

If Force of Will isn't good, your opponents are not casting spells. And then who cares what cards you are playing?

But I'm done arguing. Arguing for someone to play Force of Will in their blue deck is like trying to convince people the sky is blue. If they don't believe me, they aren't going to start believing me anytime soon.

[Sigar]

Wow, that's really narrowminded logic!

[dahcmai]

Well, either way, this has definitely spawned a new deck idea for me. Not much like the original, but I really love how Transmute works now. Definitely an improvement to it. I hadn't noticed how much of a difference the new wording makes.

Oh and CB? Not much of a problem at least it wasn't for me. EE does do the trick when you can recur it. Add the tolaria west. You will thank me later for that one. I kind of want a Crucible now. The deck doesn't like mass LD much and it's a sitting duck for it with all the non-basics.

[Michael Keller]

I've actually been working on my own variation of a Transmute Artifact-based deck. I'll be running it at Star City Games' Open Invitational in Richmond. The card has a great deal of untapped potential. It has been running very smoothly.

One issue I've noticed with the card is that it requires a powerful assortment of supporting cards to uphold the way it plays so it doesn't collapse under the weight of a single card (Transmute Artifact).

Transmuting into Sphinx of the Steel Wind has been, well, pretty damn good.

But I am not a fan of the OP's list; I just personally feel a more aggressive direction really abuses the cards potential. Searching for combo pieces is fine and it works, but at Sorcery speed, it is hard enough to setup a combo element and protect Transmute while having to activate subsequently. I noticed how dead-set the OP's list was on certain cards in the article (like Etched Champion), only to completely change perspective shortly thereafter. What direction you decide to go in ultimately decides the effectiveness of Transmute Artifact. It's not a bad list, but this card has had such a suggestive past of unproven success that with the new wording, it can hopefully do some serious damage.

[samurai_socks]

Thanks for posting this article if for no other reason than I am glad to have read something that was not about Survival.

-Cheers-

[Amon Amarth]

I've read the new oracle text; what is the difference? I can't tell?. Isn't it functionally the same.

[godryk]

Thanks for posting this article if for no other reason than I am glad to have read something that was not about Survival.

-Cheers-

Greatest QFT ever.

[Gheizen64]

I've read the new oracle text; what is the difference? I can't tell?. Isn't it functionally the same.

They don't 2-for-1 you with a counterspell, the artifact is sacrificed on resolution instead of being an additional cost as before.

[piZZero]

Thanks to everyone for the good feedback that the article and the deck has received.

What's surprising me the most these days is that a lot of people on Cockatrice is actually playing the deck and you can tell they are really loving it. The deck wins and people do like to win, so, I'm happy about this little contribution to the format. I'm not a great deck designer but I do like to tinker with ideas, and that's why we have the "In the lab" series of articles. Magic needs innovation in order to get fresh meat in to the formats, else everything is just an evolution of current decks that adapt the new staples that are being printed.

I'm currently thinking on making a second part of the Transformers article to gather all these cool ideas people has brought into this topic. More versions, more cards, FoW VS No FoW debate, etc... What would you like to read in the follow up article? Maybe a tournament report? Videos of the deck in action? (I can record myself playing on Cockatrice). Is anyone planning on going to the SCG tournament with Transformers? Have you tested the deck lately? What are your feelings? How does your decklist look like?

Thanks in advance!

[Amon Amarth]

They don't 2-for-1 you with a counterspell, the artifact is sacrificed on resolution instead of being an additional cost as before.

Ahh cool. There is so much text it boggles my simple little mind :P

[Michael Keller]

Thanks to everyone for the good feedback that the article and the deck has received.

What's surprising me the most these days is that a lot of people on Cockatrice is actually playing the deck and you can tell they are really loving it. The deck wins and people do like to win, so, I'm happy about this little contribution to the format. I'm not a great deck designer but I do like to tinker with ideas, and that's why we have the "In the lab" series of articles. Magic needs innovation in order to get fresh meat in to the formats, else everything is just an evolution of current decks that adapt the new staples that are being printed.

I'm currently thinking on making a second part of the Transformers article to gather all these cool ideas people has brought into this topic. More versions, more cards, FoW VS No FoW debate, etc... What would you like to read in the follow up article? Maybe a tournament report? Videos of the deck in action? (I can record myself playing on Cockatrice). Is anyone planning on going to the SCG tournament with Transformers? Have you tested the deck lately? What are your feelings? How does your decklist look like?

Thanks in advance!

I will be attending Star City's Invitational in Richmond with my own version of a Transmute Artifact-based deck. It does not run Force of Will and I have been testing the deck for close to a month now. My list (at the moment) is relatively tight, and I have been trying to exploit Transmute Artifact's weaknesses against the deck's worst match-ups to try and get a better understanding of what cards work best in the most dire of circumstances.

My list (currently) looks something like this after a month of testing:

[4x] Transmute Artifact
[4x] Thirst for Knowledge
[4x] Swords to Plowshares

[4x] Metalworker
[4x] Goblin Welder
[1x] Platinum Emperion
[1x] Platinum Angel
[1x] Sundering Titan
[1x] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
[1x] Wurmcoil Engine

[4x] Grim Monolith
[3x] Lightning Greaves
[2x] Mox Diamond
[1x] Sword of Light and Shadow
[1x] Gilded Lotus
[1x] Ensnaring Bridge
[1x] Pithing Needle

[4x] Seat of the Synod
[4x] Ancient Den
[4x] Ancient Tomb
[4x] Glimmervoid
[4x] Great Furnace
[1x] Darksteel Citadel
[1x] Island

//Sideboard
[3x] Trinisphere
[3x] Peacekeeper
[3x] Ghostly Prison
[2x] Ethersworn Canonist
[1x] Ratchet Bomb
[1x] Pithing Needle
[1x] Tormod's Crypt
[1x] Tsabo's Web

So far, it has run rather efficiently. I'm still in the testing process but this is very close to the list I will be playing at the Invitational. I rarely like posting lists before playing in tournaments of any sort, but this is an archetype on the rise and I thought I'd share my own two cents.

[voltron00x]

Greatest QFT ever.

You'll love my next article, its the word "Survival" repeated 3997 times, and then "of the fittest!"

Its a metagame report.







Kidding, I'm actually writing up a full list of all the viable Legacy combo decks from 2010, of which there are many; too much focus on TES lately. So, kind of an anti-Survival article. Hope you'll like it.

PS Survival!

[jazzykat]

@Hollywood: Thanks for the list, I will try it out ASAP. StPl is a nice touch, but would you be better served with FoW instead?

[Nekrataal]

Thanks for the nice to read article first of all. I can imagine that playing the deck is a lot of fun. I also can imagine that FoW is not necessary because instead of protecting spells your fallback plan is to have more tutors to find some more gas and do your combo regardless. However I feel that if somebody knows the deck and which spells should be countered/ destroyed immediatly it is easy to delay you comboing too early and either get control of the board or swarm/burn you before you go off.

[ReAnimator]

I don't know if i buy the whole "more tutors and bombs are better than force" tutors and bombs take up extra time and mana, like if you looking at a pridemage on the stack they can spend a lot of time making your life miserable while you try to get them to activate it, or overload it, neither of which is really better than a force. ETutor and Transmute are really powerful but they aren't without their drawbacks.

[Michael Keller]

I'm actually gearing towards trying out an Enlightened Tutor package with the Thopter/Sword combo. I've found it to work excellent, but it is still a serious work in progress.

[godryk]

Pretty cool list Hollywood, I had completely missed all the cool interactions between Transmute Artifact, Goblin Welder and Metalworker. And those Lightning Greaves are serious tech (I've been fapping to them on MWS). We should start a thread about this deck/archetype. Maybe after Richmond.

[Zork]

I have been testing various iterations of welder/worker/transmute, as well as combinations of just 2 of the 3. My problem in every iteration was an issue of either being too slow or being inconsistent considering a field of storm, zoo, merfolk, and vengevine. Have you been posting good results against each, or are there some that play out unfavorably in general?

[piZZero]

I've tested Hollywood list and, comparing it to Transformers, I found it was slower and not that solid. His deck is very cool but the way(s) he has to reach the win needs some extra set up and extra turns (you need to attack). With this I don't mean it's a bad deck, what I'm saying is that his list has lot of room for improvement. For example: His deck is a lot more mana intensive than Transformers. When you transmute an artifact, you are going to need UU + 6 colorless most of the times. That to me seems an issue. With Transformers, when you transmute something the most mana you are going to spend is UU + 2 (unless you want to transmute for an Ensnaring Bridge).

This is the current version I'm testing of Transformers right now:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
1 Island (This could be a Tolaria West, but I love having a basic land for the Path to Exile).
1 City of Traitors
4 Mox Opal
4 Painter's Servant
4 Trinket Mage
4 Thoughtcast
4 Brainstorm
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Transmute Artifact
4 Grim Monolith
1 Academy Ruins
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Voltaic Key (This I'm not 100% convinced of, and might changed it for the 2nd SDT)
1 Dispeller's Capsule

SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 Ghostly Prison
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Dispeller's Capsule

Will go through this list on a follow-up article about Transformers, but feel free to ask anything about card choices, etc...

[Nekrataal]

I don't know if i buy the whole "more tutors and bombs are better than force" tutors and bombs take up extra time and mana, like if you looking at a pridemage on the stack they can spend a lot of time making your life miserable while you try to get them to activate it, or overload it, neither of which is really better than a force. ETutor and Transmute are really powerful but they aren't without their drawbacks.

I agree that does not need to be better but just playing 4x Fow as your only protection doesn't sound like muchl, so I understand that the deck's inventor rather chose to fully load the deck with tutors and card advantage. Anyway bringing in FoW or not still is subject to tests as I read. I think that is an important result to wait for.

[Michael Keller]

I think the concept here we need to focus on is maximizing the utility of two to three-cost artifacts to optimize Transmute's effectiveness. This is where it gets difficult; the card is so difficult to build a deck around. But it is just begging to be broken.

Hitting double Blue is key. That's the big trick. Also, the list I posted earlier has been getting iffy results. It's a skeleton list, and I've essentially changed just about everything around. There was too much focus on Welder tricks than a more straight-forward approach.

[Zork]

Ok, glad to know someone else has been having trouble getting just the right balance.

One other thing I noticed while playing the other day was that while Goblin Welder and Metalworker both cheat artifacts into play, they do so in opposing manors. Metalworker wants the cards in your hand, while Welder wants them in the yard, and when I tried to play to both, neither one was "bomby" enough on its own.

[Rico Suave]

I haven't been able to craft a masterpiece of the Welder/BS/TFK trifecta that would draw me away from what I feel is the best deck in the environment, but I wouldn't feel ashamed to bring such a deck to a tournament either. I don't want to bring this thread too off topic, but I'll briefly mention a few ideas that may help bring you success.

I'm not the biggest fan of Metalworker, particularly since I like to run more blue spells than Metalworker would truly appreciate. Maybe if I were to incorporate Lodestone Golem and more artifacts, or perhaps go take a Smokestack/TangleWire/Meditate route like the old days, I might like it more. It's not a bad card though.

I did, however, very much appreciate Riddlesmith. Riddlesmith conveniently sets up Welder by playing a cheap artifact, so we are able to filter an expensive artifact into our grave while also getting a free draw in the process. 1st turn Welder, 2nd turn Riddlesmith, 3rd turn Sensei's Divining Top? Not too bad and it works without the "nut" draws involving Grim Monolith or Ancient Tomb.

Speaking of Sensei's Divining Top, I really can't say enough about using such a card in a deck full of artifacts. We can find mana if we need it. We can find expensive artifacts if we need them. We can smooth our draws. With Key or Welder it serves as a draw engine in the absence of TFK/BS. At worst, it is an artifact to fuel Metalworker or TFK or Transmute Artifact.

Lastly, I'd like to add that I very much enjoyed playing Jace too. If the deck can support UU plus extra colorless mana for Transmute Artifact, it's almost a crime not to play Jaces on top of that.

[Michael Keller]

I haven't been able to craft a masterpiece of the Welder/BS/TFK trifecta that would draw me away from what I feel is the best deck in the environment, but I wouldn't feel ashamed to bring such a deck to a tournament either. I don't want to bring this thread too off topic, but I'll briefly mention a few ideas that may help bring you success.

I'm not the biggest fan of Metalworker, particularly since I like to run more blue spells than Metalworker would truly appreciate. Maybe if I were to incorporate Lodestone Golem and more artifacts, or perhaps go take a Smokestack/TangleWire/Meditate route like the old days, I might like it more. It's not a bad card though.

I did, however, very much appreciate Riddlesmith. Riddlesmith conveniently sets up Welder by playing a cheap artifact, so we are able to filter an expensive artifact into our grave while also getting a free draw in the process. 1st turn Welder, 2nd turn Riddlesmith, 3rd turn Sensei's Divining Top? Not too bad and it works without the "nut" draws involving Grim Monolith or Ancient Tomb.

Speaking of Sensei's Divining Top, I really can't say enough about using such a card in a deck full of artifacts. We can find mana if we need it. We can find expensive artifacts if we need them. We can smooth our draws. With Key or Welder it serves as a draw engine in the absence of TFK/BS. At worst, it is an artifact to fuel Metalworker or TFK or Transmute Artifact.

Lastly, I'd like to add that I very much enjoyed playing Jace too. If the deck can support UU plus extra colorless mana for Transmute Artifact, it's almost a crime not to play Jaces on top of that.

I agree with most of those points, except on Sensei's Divining Top. With hardly any shuffle effects, it is really not an optimal card to be using here. It's not bad because it does open up options, but in a deck like this more shuffle effects should be prevalent.

[deadlock]

Î want to reemphasize the inclustion of Thopter Sword overPainter Stone. Painter seems very vulnerable with no way to protect it, whereas the Thopter combo is immune to spot removal. Also Thopter increases the blue count to enbale FoW, which is underrated in this thread till now imo. Third reason is that Thoper has a bigger synergy with Transmute in my opinion, because you can transmute away the Sword to get Thopter and then sac any spare artifact to retrieve it from the yard. Sword makes Thirst more worthwhile too, because you can always pitch it and return it later with Thopter Foundry in play.

Going for Transmute + low casting cost artifacts in a possible route, but i would distinguish it from Welder / Riddlesmith lists, where you try to put huge artifacts into play. Both concepts need different support cards and till now I see no advantage to mix both together.

[Purgatory]

I really like the deck, it looks awesome and a lot of fun to play. I can't wait to sit down by my own computer to give it a whirl on MWS.

[keys]

I've been following this and other threads dedicated to artifact aggro/combo and I think that your efforts to incorporate Transmute Artifact are holding back the deck. Just look around-- there are enough mana accelerants that DON'T force you to pay UU: City of Traitors, Monolith/Key, Metalworker, Opal, Diamond... I can make a MUD list with more bombs and a much more stable manabase than either of these lists.

[Michael Keller]

I've been following this and other threads dedicated to artifact aggro/combo and I think that your efforts to incorporate Transmute Artifact are holding back the deck. Just look around-- there are enough mana accelerants that DON'T force you to pay UU: City of Traitors, Monolith/Key, Metalworker, Opal, Diamond... I can make a MUD list with more bombs and a much more stable manabase than either of these lists.

The effort to include Transmute Artifact has nothing to do with "holding back the deck"; the deck itself is specifically designed around Transmute Artifact - and Enlightened Tutor - as a solid tutor package to basically retrieve anything necessary to win the game at a particular moment in time. The trouble is, most of these lists (including my own) are too focused on trying to break the card when we should be more focused on avoiding cute tricks and going right for the throat.

This is why I fully believe Transmute Artifact to be a valid combo necessity in new-age Artifact-based decks such as the previous lists posted. I highly doubt a MUD list would be any more effective than either of the lists posted; MUD has been a no-factor in the format for a relatively long period of time now (sans Armageddon Stax, if you count that even).

Combo is winning these days, and this archetype can and should become more dedicated to that structure as the potential is certainly there for people to break this archetype wide open with Grim Monolith and Transmute Artifact. Trick is, surrounding the deck with the best possible supporting cast.

[piZZero]

I agree with Hollywood here. MUD can pack as many bombs as you wish to but with 0 deck manipulation/tutors you are gonna have too many bad hands/draws and will never be able to seal a game, not to mention how dependent MUD is on Metalworker. You can bring to discussion that Painter's Servant also dies to StP or PtE but the difference is that Painter's servant wins the game while Metalworker doesn't. Metalworker acts exactly the same as Goblin Welder, it's a great card but it's not a win condition.

Regarding the manabase, I'm not sure if you read the whole article, so let me just quote the paragraph where I cover this aspect:


Regarding the mana base I wanted something solid and that wouldn’t die to Wastelands that bad. Yeah, I know that I’m only playing 1 basic Island and absolutely no fetchlands. How on earth could I think the mana base isn’t dying to Wasteland? Ok… first of all, the basic Island is there basically for Path to Exile. Second, you should have a look at the sexy 4 Mox Opal and 4 Grim Monolith. That’s like 8 lands inmune to Wasteland. Ok, they are not lands but they work as such for me. Besides, why on earth would you play more than 16 lands in a Legacy Combo deck? What you definitely don’t wanna see on your opening hand are 3 lands. And what you definitely DO wanna see are 3 Grim Monolith (see the last sample hand at the bottom of the article).

Let's talk about the amount of blue sources:

4 Mox Opal
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Island

8 of those are tutorable by Enlightened Tutor and Trinket Mage. Finding the second blue source has never been an issue as not only you can tutor it but also you can dig into it via Brainstorm/Thoughtcast/SdT. Also, let me point out that Seachrome Coast is played instead of Tundra to improve the Merfolk Matchup, and the testing has proven to be GREAT change.

What makes Transformers so effective is that your gameplan is clear from the very beginning. You are likely to have 1 or 2 combo pieces in hand and if not, you are gonna have tutors. So all you need to do is understand VS what you are playing and what's its tempo. Ask yourself things like: Is it a deck that can disrupt you? If so, then you'd better cast those BS/Thoughcasts before going all-in. Is it a deck that allows you to goldfish? (in example, most of these survival decks that pack no FoW/Daze so you are just playing vs 4 Swords to plowshares). Is it a deck that attacks your manabase? Etc... All those questions are addressed towards the main game plan. If that plan fails, and you are moving into the mid/late game, then you need to ask yourself other things like: How can I secure the board? Tutor for cards like Pithing Needle, Explosives or Ensnaring Bridge. Can I still win using the Painter's/Grindstone? If not, start setting up your plan B.

For example: You are playing VS an Emrakul deck. You've managed to mill him on turn 3 and he got his Emrakul to shuffle his deck. Next steps:
1- Find Ensnaring Bridge so you don't die. There's 4 Enlightened Tutor, 4 Transmute Artifacts and 3/4 Tezzeret to find such card.
2- Once we got the board safe, your opponent is gonna try find his only bouncer (if he has any), and he'll have to do that via BS, Lim Dul's Vault, Ponder, etc... So at this point we need to start setting up our plan B and make it before he manages to find his bouncer.
3- Win via beatdown with either 2/3/4 Painter's Servant + Academy Ruins, so you can recursively bring in one attacker to pass over the defending Emrakul and damage him for 1/2/3 points of dmg per turn (or more if you can bring in some Trinket Mages) OR prepare your Alpha Strike coming from Tezzeret (make sure you have 5 cards in hand b4 doing so, else you won't be able to attack if you have the bridge in play :P).

[odabella]

sources:
...
4 Mox Opal
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Island
....


It is obvious, that playing against Blood Moon Effects is very though. Only Mox Opal save us. Is there any way to improve this without losing to much consistency?

Mabye:

1 Island
3 Flooded Strands
1 Tundra
(4 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod)

But this may be bad vs Merfolk and it is not realy stable. Or must we accept Blood Moon as autoloss not having Painter/Grindstone or Mox Opal?

[keys]

The effort to include Transmute Artifact has nothing to do with "holding back the deck"; the deck itself is specifically designed around Transmute Artifact - and Enlightened Tutor - as a solid tutor package to basically retrieve anything necessary to win the game at a particular moment in time. The trouble is, most of these lists (including my own) are too focused on trying to break the card when we should be more focused on avoiding cute tricks and going right for the throat.

This is why I fully believe Transmute Artifact to be a valid combo necessity in new-age Artifact-based decks such as the previous lists posted. I highly doubt a MUD list would be any more effective than either of the lists posted; MUD has been a no-factor in the format for a relatively long period of time now (sans Armageddon Stax, if you count that even).

Combo is winning these days, and this archetype can and should become more dedicated to that structure as the potential is certainly there for people to break this archetype wide open with Grim Monolith and Transmute Artifact. Trick is, surrounding the deck with the best possible supporting cast.

Transmute is pretty bad in decks that try to ramp and/or recur fatties, like the list you posted a page back.

As a tutor for things like Painter/Grindstone, sure it works.

[Michael Keller]

Transmute is pretty bad in decks that try to ramp and/or recur fatties, like the list you posted a page back.

As a tutor for things like Painter/Grindstone, sure it works.

In case you missed my most recent post, I said that my list was falling flat because I was testing it out. That much is clear.

Right now, I'm working with the Thopter/Swords combo.

EDIT: I've also been annihilating Vengevival (G/u, G/u/w) for the last three days with a new list I've been testing. It is more aggro-based, which is exactly what I've been trying to get together. If we can give ourselves a good shot against almost half the field (comprised of Vengevival and Merfolk), then we have something to start with.