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View Full Version : What is and what is not stalling?



Offler
12-01-2010, 04:08 AM
Situation a:

I have 15+ mana, Future sight and Senseis divining top. Each turn I can play or draw 15+ cards. Each turn I am able to tap all opponents creatures.

Opponent has a lot of green beasts, including Terra Stomper. Single attack could mean victory for him, i need a single card to start an infinite combo.

I was able to defend myself for 5 turns, at sixth opponent left the game saying that if this would happen on tournament i would be disqualified. At that turn i drew the last card for infinite combo. Since my situation took drawing a lot of cards, playing some of them, discarding my turn took 2-3 minutes, opponent drew a card, played a land, attempted to attack which was prevented with cards like Cryptic command.

Situation b:
Stasis enters battlefield. Opponent autoconcedes or accuse me of attempt to stall the game.

Since it is german highlander the format creators reccomends 60 minutes or more for game (two victories of three games), however local organizers disrespect this reccomendation and there is 50 minutes time limit. Both situations are currently happening due time limits they set. There is nothing I can do when opponent autoconcedes, however the accusation of stalling with control game is bit... but it happened in the past.

Nihil Credo
12-01-2010, 04:21 AM
Your opponents were, quelle surprise, full of shit. The composition of your deck has nothing to do with whether you are stalling, slow playing, or neither. Playing 60 Islands.dec is perfectly legal.

If you keep playing at a reasonable pace, it doesn't matter if it takes you forever to win. E.g. if you have a Ruins/Mindslaver lock going and can only win by waiting for your opponent to get decked, that's perfectly fine as long as you don't waste time in performing the loop (tapping your lands one by one, that kind of thing). Even if all your win conditions have been removed and you're not going to be able to win, nothing requires you to concede, only not to play any slower - finishing you off in 50 minutes is your opponent's job. The exception are actions that do not advance the game state, Skyshroud Elf untapping itself being the classic example.

If you spend an unreasonable amount of time thinking, that is slow play, and if the judge believes that you are doing that on purpose, to abuse the clock, that is stalling. Rivers of e-ink have been written on what exactly is "unreasonable", but an average of 30 sec/turn is often taken as a guideline, and in theory you're not supposed to get extra time just because the board is complicated or because there is no danger of going to time (that's the official position which judges will tell you, but personally I find it's just not how it gets enforced, thankfully; if you spend 30 seconds on "draw, go" you will get warned for slow play, and if you spend two minutes on a complicated board in G3 after you played G1 and G2 in ten minutes, few if any judges will bother you).

Offler
12-01-2010, 04:47 AM
This is also a common problem here.

Average aggro can finish an opponent in 5-10 minutes at most. Deck consists of red goblins and spells. (still speaking of highlander eg Singleton 100). Average control needs 10-20 minutes, however if the third game occurs it means that time limit will be hit and causing last game to end in a draw.

Is there any way how can i force tournament organizers to strictly follow the tournament reccomendations? However it is non DCI format so...

Fuzzy
12-01-2010, 03:37 PM
Let's say I'm playing a control mirror. I won the first game after 40 minutes.

It's stalling if I mull to 6, pile shuffling, mull to 5, pile shuffling again, mull to ZERO and kill the time left in the process and winning, because my opponent will never kill me in 5 turns?

I suppose it is, but can I be penalized for this?

Julian23
12-01-2010, 03:45 PM
If you do so with the intention to drag out the game it is stalling.
If you do it because your hand sucks everything's allright.

Besides that, mull to zero will be stalling in like 99,99999999% of the times (Ebony Owl Netsuke interactions and the like aside).