What will happen? -- Mtgthesource crew's ability to predict the future

[Gui]

So, basically, what's your prediction about the 20th?

I don't care if you think (a) or (b) should be banned, just what you guess that WILL happen. ^^

Making it clear: Consider what WotC will do, not what you think is the right action.

- Vengevine gets banned;
- Survival of the Fittest gets banned;
- They both get banned;
- None of the above get banned;

Feel free to state your opinion below! :D

[practical joke]

So, basically, what's your prediction about the 20th?

I don't care if you think (a) or (b) SHOULD be banned, just what you guess that WILL happen. ^^

- Vengevine gets banned;
- Survival of the Fittest gets banned;
- They both get banned;
- None of the above get banned;

Vengevine remains untouched, that's for sure.
Survival isn't putting up extraordinairy results when compared to it's appearance. So when you look at those numbers it shouldn't be banned.
When you look at the following arguments, it might:
- one-card tutor, the set-back (discarding a creature card, being a permanent), is pretty low and even abusable (squee, vengevine and/or iona+recruiter etcetc.)
- Repeatable tutoring (multiple times in a turn)
- Important card for a lot of decks for certain I-win engines.
- Low-costed (gg1 for a single tutor is quite good)

Those reasons could be good enough for a ban, but I'm not so certain if it really has to be banned. Let them play a deck that is quite popular at the time.

It could be on the banned-list, but I'm not convinced by numbers if it's really necessary.

For useless info: I like survival a lot, but I really hate vengevival and I really really hate the deck even though I have no problems beating the deck.

[socialite]

Nothing should happen; if it does it will be Survival.

Banning Veg is just silly and goes against DCI's typical policy of banning the "engine".

[tsabo_tavoc]

December announcement:
Time Spiral is no longer banned;
Earthcraft is no longer banned.

Not to sway the discussion into the unbanning candidates, but really I expect a couple coming off the list and none jumping into the list.

[whienot]

Isn't there already infinite threads on this topic?

But look! This one has a new poll!!

[Gui]

Isn't there already infinite threads on this topic?

But look! This one has a new poll!!

Yup! So, what's your point?

This is somewhat different, tho. There are lots of people that think VV should be banned, and yet, noone seems to believe WotC would do that. Also, that's a way to see how accurate are the opinions around.

I like when someone thinks that a thread is useless, and given that, comes and state that in a useless way. xD

[rockout]

I'd rather see vengevine get banned but I know deep down in my gut that it will probably be survival. O well, I'll have to continue to rape with survival in edh.

[Julian23]

People, stop posting what you think should happen but what you think WILL happen. I can totally see the purpose of this thread.

For my part, I tend to believe nothing will actually happen regarding SotF/VV. Not to mention possible unbannings.

[Michael Keller]

Oh...my...GOD!

Get over it, already! This thread is just another derivative from all the other banning-speculative threads regarding Vengevine, Survival of the Fittest, or any combination of both. It is seriously getting really old. Really old. And the banning announcement hasn't even taken place yet! It's worse than O.J.'s trial. Does Vengevine need to try on a white glove to see if it truly was the perpetrator??? This thread will bring nothing new to the table other than a potpourri on some rhetoric about the format that has no distinct or precise subject matter except for the banning of the Exodus rare, its counterpart, and the so-called 'repercussions' to follow. I'm sorry, but reading the same thing over and over again gets really stale.

Except here we go - back to the Vengevine-Survival Complex again that keeps spinning out of control. Here are some "helpful" links, in case everyone has been living under a rock:

One place... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19485-Format-Discussion-The-Ban-List).
And another... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19482-%5BArticle%5D-Why-Survival-Shouldn-t-Be-Banned-But-Will-Be-Anyawy)
Try again... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19091-Survival-of-the-Fittest)
Might as well... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4476-%5BDiscussion%5D-The-Future-of-Survival)
In depth... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19475-%5BArticle%5D-Recurring-Nightmares-Impending-Doom)
Why not predict the market, too? (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19361-%5Barticle%5D-Should-You-Sell-Your-Survivals-A-Fiscal-Analysis)
If you really want to beat it... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19425-%5BArticle%5D-One-Game-Remix-Tendrils-vs-Survival)
For old time's sake... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19351-%5BBlog-Post%5D-Survival-in-Legacy)
The road less traveled... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19340-%5Barticle%5D-Survival-Doesn-t-Need-To-Be-Banned)
The absurdity continues... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19298-CFB-The-State-of-Legacy-Picking-Apart-Survival)
I don't want my fortune read... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19313-%5BFree-Article%5D-Survival-The-Experts-The-Engine-and-Legacy-s-Future)
"Oh noes"... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19256-Answering-Survival-Vengevine-%28-oh-noes-another-thread-on-this-archetype%29)
The legend continues... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19251-Survival-Vengevine-Poll)
Focus!... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19160-%5BArticle%5D-Focus-on-Legacy-Combating-Survival)
Fight!... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19129-%5BArticle%5D-Fighting-Survival-of-the-Fittest)

Comical at best.

This is ridiculous. It's even more annoying than Brett Favre indicating he may or may not retire these last three years. I'm sorry if I'm venting out a little bit here, but there is only so much one can take before you read the same thing over...and over...and over...and over again before you finally take a step back and ask yourself, "Do I care?"

I have nothing against any of the authors of some of these very well-written articles, but please people: speculation only goes so far and these threads just keep getting redundant with the same material until the 'meat' of the discussion is lost in a train of thought digressing back to this (now boringly) vehement topic. Is it important? Absolutely. Do we need to see or hear the same thing in a different vein over and over again until it loses its flavor? No.

Freedom of speech, I guess.

[whienot]

My point is that it has all be said before. This thread will inevitably deteriorate into the same arguments as all previous B&R threads. It's a tired subject. There's nothing left to discuss, just be patient.

For relevance: Wizards will unbann Gush and reban it in March.

Edit: +infinity Hollywood.

[Gui]

I guess if you don't want to read, and is tired of reading the same thing over and over again, be my guest and don't read.

This is a different poll from any of these you posted there, in which I intended to know whether people think the card will get banned or not, instead of the general "do you think it should be banned" question. Of course the Ban list isn't out yet, if it was so, this thread would have no meaning ><

I don't get it, if you don't want to make a valid point, why come here and say "Stop discussing, all of you that still want to do so.". Makes no sense at all. Just leave and go live.

This is a speculation thread, so what? I had no data on what people here thought that WotC might do, and now I have. It was informative and consistant. If you don't like it, go flame somewhere else.

[Michael Keller]

I guess if you don't want to read, and is tired of reading the same thing over and over again, be my guest and don't read.

Boredom gets the best of me sometimes, especially when I have no choice but to read the same things over and over again.


This is a different poll from any of these you posted there, in which I intended to know whether people think the card will get banned or not, instead of the general "do you think it should be banned" question. Of course the Ban list isn't out yet, if it was so, this thread would have no meaning ><

It's not a different poll at the basic framework of things. All it is is a reworded configuration of every other poll in this forum dedicated to the banning of either of those two cards.

You're right, the Ban List hasn't been revealed yet. Have you checked any of the other thirty threads to discuss it or read about speculation there?


I don't get it, if you don't want to make a valid point, why come here and say "Stop discussing, all of you that still want to do so.". Makes no sense at all. Just leave and go live.

I prefer to stay and live, if that's all right with you. All you're doing is opening a new thread with the same subject matter sugar-coated over again from the same tired rhetoric about the same argument being made in about thirty other threads.


This is a speculation thread, so what? I had no data on what people here thought that WotC might do, and now I have. It was informative and consistant. If you don't like it, go flame somewhere else.

I'm not flaming anywhere; I'm simply stating all this thread is is a complete rehash of countless other threads debating and discussing the same thing. It's cluttering, nonsensical, and leads to pointless speculation about a banning announcement that will take place in only a few short days. It's just repetitive and speculative and all it is doing is reiterating the same trivial rhetoric over and over again.

Point is, there are plenty of other threads that are talking about this very same issue. What is the purpose of yet another one?

[Doomsday]

I voted that Survival will be banned because WotC has shown that they're pretty bad at managing eternal formats.

[Gui]

Point is, there are plenty of other threads that are talking about this very same issue. What is the purpose of yet another one?

It is not the same very issue, but I don't blame you if you can't understand why this poll is different from the other 2 polls you posted there. I know there are endless topics on the matter, I know the first page is all flooded with the thing, but I wanted to know what People from the source actaully think that will happen, whether they like the decision or not, so that I can compare and see how accurate they were. There was no data on this issue, not the way this poll is now providing, and now there is.

Anyways, if you don't like the thread, you don't need to try to end it, do you? As far as I can tell, some people like it, and there are people contributing.

[majikal]

Just because people are posting in the thread doesn't mean they like it. They probably would have posted the same shit in any one of the 9000 other threads about the exact same thing that exist on this site right now.

[(nameless one)]

Well, that dude from the mothership did say that it all depends on the Worlds if Survival of the Fittest will get banned. 2/8 decks have it but is 2/8 too dominating?

Maybe they'll just unban a couple of things like Earthcraft and Land Tax.

[dontbiteitholmes]

After the 20th could some mod please lock every thread about Survival except for 1 new one where people cry about what did/didn't happen.

[Tacosnape]

I'm taking the longshot here and saying they actually get it right and ban Vengevine. For all the bitching people do about the powers that be, they tend to actually do the right thing far more often than not.

[Cenarius]

First, I miss the option: 'I like pressing on buttons and do therefore do not have an opinion'.
Second, this discussion/thread is totally irrelevant. We already got 4 thread's about the banning of either Survival, Vengevine or none of the above.

Greetings.

[Gui]

First, I miss the option: 'I like pressing on buttons and do therefore do not have an opinion'.
Second, this discussion/thread is totally irrelevant. We already got 4 thread's about the banning of either Survival, Vengevine or none of the above.

Greetings.

If you analise closely, this option exists! Unless of course you really believe they will ban both =P

And I've tryed to explain the thread reason already, won't do that again to avoid an even less useful debate. ^^

[socialite]

I'm taking the longshot here and saying they actually get it right and ban Vengevine. For all the bitching people do about the powers that be, they tend to actually do the right thing far more often than not.

Why do you feel this is the correct choice? You can provide links if you are too lazy; I assume you wrote about this already.

[Nidd]

I think they stick with their Mystical-Tutor-logic and ban SotF.

[Purgatory]

I think they stick with their Mystical-Tutor-logic and ban SotF.

+1, although I personally don't have a problem with SotF, nor do I really think it needs to be banned, I believe that is what will happen.

It'll be nice with a shake-up of the metagame again though (if SotF gets banned). I hope my Merfolks will be good again :)

[SurFitOfTheVine]

Lol at the single vote for "Both will get get banned".

[Tacosnape]

Why do you feel this is the correct choice? You can provide links if you are too lazy; I assume you wrote about this already.

I'm also too lazy to provide links. Writing's less effort. In short, because Survival hasn't been a remote problem in the slightest until Vengevine.

[Valrina]

*predicts future*

Surival gets the hammer
Burning Wish goes to the Watchlist
Land Tax is unbanned
Time Spiral is unbanned

[Lemnear]

Predictions till june '11

Survival gets banned ( -__- will Be a sad day)
LED gets banned (wish makes no Sense ... LED is the enabler)
Time Spiral stays banned (high Tide!)
Earthcraft unbanned
Land tax unbanned

Meta: Zoo/tribal-Aggro vs. Landstill-style-control

Me: quitting Legacy because of more dumb Play-creature-attack and focus on Vintage

[Gui]

I'm taking the longshot here and saying they actually get it right and ban Vengevine. For all the bitching people do about the powers that be, they tend to actually do the right thing far more often than not.

I feel somehow the same, I think they do the right thing most of the time, and I believe they will ban one of them, although I'm not sure which one is the right call. I still think that Survival is more bannable than VV, and is what they are going to ban.


@ Ertai's Familiar: Taco's opinion: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19482-
63rd post

[Grollub]

Given the results at Worlds I don't think anything will be banned. It seems much more likely they will unban something with Mind Twist and/or Earthcraft being the most obvious candidates (if they wanted Tax off, they could have done so, safely, years ago).

[Ozymandias]

I voted for no bans--at least this cycle.

[MMogg]

I voted for a Survival ban. If they banned Mystical Tutor because they thought Reanimator and ANT were too strong, I can't see them not banning an even more prevalent deck type. Survival has been putting up better numbers of large tournament wins than Reanimator or ANT did, so judging on their recent past, I guess they will ban Survival. The presence of Ooze Survival means banning Vengevine would be like banning Iona in Reanimator: there are other win conditions.

Regarding Worlds, the only Legacy played at Worlds (as in part of the main event, not a side event) was in teams and that has less to do with the quality and dominance of any one deck. For example, in the finals, the Slovak Republic was playing CounterTop and Australia was playing Merfolk. Of course Australia's Merfolk curbstomped CounterTop, but the Slovak Republic still won the championship because they pwned Australia in Extended and Standard and you only need to win in two of three formats. Also, team ratings were also based on their individual play. That means, if an individual player kicked ass at Standard, draft and Extended, the team was probably high in the team rankings, regardless of the Legacy deck quality. Did you guys even follow the podcasts and other coverage? Legacy was like the redheaded stepchild no one wanted to play in teams. Usually the most experienced player had to play it and threw together a deck. Team USA brought Elves for god's sake! Anyway, in short, Worlds is a horrible glimpse at a Legacy meta because it's primarily fueled by non-Legacy play.

[DragoFireheart]

Neither card is banned.
Earthcraft is unbanned.
Mind Twist is unbanned.

[dahcmai]

I really don't want to see Earthcraft back. That squirrel stuff really isn't the strongest thing around, but it sure is annoying to have a deck that spams millions of squirrels turn 3. I just don't like 2 card infinite combos. Makes black suck some more since it's one of the colors that really has no quick outs to something like that.

I could handle Mind Twist though. It wasn't even annoying when you had moxes with it.

Land Tax is such a comical topic in this anymore. I'll never know why it's stayed on as long as it has. They must know something I don't about that card.

[Meekrab]

I have three, independent predictions.

1) No new bans.
2) some crap card(s) will get unbanned and proceed to see no play
3) in two months people will be screaming for card X to be banned, where X is not Vengevine or Survival of the Fittest.

I think I'm gonna go at least 2/3. It would shock me to the core if I went 0/3, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to go 3/3.

[RexFTW]

I am betting on a basking rootwalla banning.

Edit: Land Tax + Brainstorm = Ancestral Recall. How does nobody get this? It is also insanely powerful with things like devastating dreams and sensei's top. If this gets unbanned it will spawn numerous insane decks.

[majikal]

I am betting on a basking rootwalla banning.
You know, a couple of weeks ago I would have laughed at you for this post, but after playing UG Madness without Survival for the last couple of weeks, I think that may just be a solid choice. It would definitely bring Vengevine back to the realm of fairness, and I don't think trying to cram Vengevines into Survival after that would be very effective either. UG Madness takes a hit, but that hasn't really been a competitive deck for a long time.

Also, kind of off-topic, but relevant in a way - did anyone read Brassman's article about Vintage Madness the other day? Apparently it's starting to pop up all over the place, and Basking Rootwalla is the centerpiece (apart from Bazaar of course).

[RexFTW]

Also, kind of off-topic, but relevant in a way - did anyone read Brassman's article about Vintage Madness the other day? Apparently it's starting to pop up all over the place, and Basking Rootwalla is the centerpiece (apart from Bazaar of course).

Anytime you get something for nothing there is a strong opportunity for being broken. Notice how almost all repeatable abilities have mana costs these days?

[Nidd]

I am betting on a basking rootwalla banning.

Edit: Land Tax + Brainstorm = Ancestral Recall. How does nobody get this? It is also insanely powerful with things like devastating dreams and sensei's top. If this gets unbanned it will spawn numerous insane decks.
Scroll-fuckin'-Rack, baby! Ancestral Recall every turn? Sign me up!

[Samantha]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113492&d=1292633720

only because I love you all, this is from Wizards.com

[Koby]

You know, a couple of weeks ago I would have laughed at you for this post, but after playing UG Madness without Survival for the last couple of weeks, I think that may just be a solid choice. It would definitely bring Vengevine back to the realm of fairness, and I don't think trying to cram Vengevines into Survival after that would be very effective either. UG Madness takes a hit, but that hasn't really been a competitive deck for a long time.

Also, kind of off-topic, but relevant in a way - did anyone read Brassman's article about Vintage Madness the other day? Apparently it's starting to pop up all over the place, and Basking Rootwalla is the centerpiece (apart from Bazaar of course).

To be fair, Bazaar is busted. Rootwalla included or not.

[Koby]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113492&d=1292633720

only because I love you all, this is from Wizards.com

Source? It's not up on the mainsite.

[Nihil Credo]

Salvation, supposedly found it by URL digging. That's happened before, so the probability of it being a really good photoshop seems far lower than the probability that it is real, and since the former leaves the probability of a Survival ban unaffected while the latter skyrockets it (Monday is only the announcement, not the discussion, so it's really unlikely that the card art would be there if R&D had 'decided, after long deliberation, to wait and see', and while the columnists may enjoy occasionally trolling their audience the DCI doesn't - at least, not intentionally), you should try to sell your Survivals now if you haven't already. Keep a singleton for EDH.

[majikal]

Fuck me sideways. Why do I even play this format? Every deck I pick up gets something in it banned. >:(

You know, for once I had a small sliver of hope that the DCI would do the right thing and handle a banning in a way that would have the least impact on the diversity of the format, but yet again they've proven themselves incompetent by swooping in and destroying an entire pillar of the format this time, not just a single problematic deck, just because they're too proud to admit they fucked up by printing a busted power creep dude.

The inevitable outcome of this is that cards will continue to be banned in a poor attempt to re-balance the format. You can't just destroy a pillar without everything else coming tumbling down. It's called a pillar for a reason.

Also, god forbid anything other than a blue deck dominate for a few months. This is ridiculous.

[Purgatory]

Fuck me sideways. Why do I even play this format? Every deck I pick up gets something in it banned. >:(

You know, for once I had a small sliver of hope that the DCI would do the right thing and handle a banning in a way that would have the least impact on the diversity of the format, but yet again they've proven themselves incompetent by swooping in and destroying an entire pillar of the format this time, not just a single problematic deck, just because they're too proud to admit they fucked up by printing a busted power creep dude.

The inevitable outcome of this is that cards will continue to be banned in a poor attempt to re-balance the format. You can't just destroy a pillar without everything else coming tumbling down. It's called a pillar for a reason.

Also, god forbid anything other than a blue deck dominate for a few months. This is ridiculous.

I thought that the Blue-Green Survival Madness was the build that performed best?

[majikal]

I thought that the Blue-Green Survival Madness was the build that performed best?
Only against other Survival decks. It hardly counts as a blue deck though. It only has exactly enough blue cards to support FoW.

[Purgatory]

Only against other Survival decks. It hardly counts as a blue deck though. It only has exactly enough blue cards to support FoW.

Granted, but it still had like a 60% win ratio against the rest of the field. I'd say it's the deck to play if you want to perform, at least at an SCG Open.

[majikal]

Granted, but it still had like a 60% win ratio against the rest of the field. I'd say it's the deck to play if you want to perform, at least at an SCG Open.
What? Do you have Asperger's or something? That's not even what we were talking about. The point is that it's disingenuous to call Madness a blue deck, because it barely has enough blue cards to support FoW.

[Purgatory]

What? Do you have Asperger's or something? That's not even what we were talking about. The point is that it's disingenuous to call Madness a blue deck, because it barely has enough blue cards to support FoW.

No, I responded to your closing statement regarding the blue decks dominating by proposing the list and you countered by saying that it;

a) Only performs the best against other Survival builds.

b) Isn't really blue because it barely has any blue cards.

Now, I adressed a) in my previous post, I thought I made myself clear, but alas, I failed. I apologize.

Regarding b), that is a completely different question, because that opens up an entirely different can of worms (counter questions: what is a "blue" deck? Does it win through a "blue" strategy, does it contain some "blue" element, or is it some magical number of cards that need to be blue in order for it to count as "blue"?)

Now, just to put this briefly because as I said, it isn't the main point: would UG Survival be a better deck as Mono-G Survival? I believe "no", I haven't seen a Mono-G Survival list perform well since Osaka Stompy. Thus, the deck benefits from being partly blue, and wins more through having blue cards and therefore is at least part-blue.

Not to say that this means that every deck that happens to Natural Order for Prog is 5c, most of the lists of UG Survival actually play FoW, as you said, and though they barely have enough cards, most of them (that I've seen) have around 15-17 at least.

And no, I don't have Asperger's. Argument ad hominem fail.

[majikal]

And no, I don't have Asperger's. Argument ad hominem fail.
It wasn't an argument ad hominem. It was a genuine question, because that would certainly explain why you feel the need to latch on to an insignificant detail and turn it into the focus of your discussion.

[Purgatory]

It wasn't an argument ad hominem. It was a genuine question, because that would certainly explain why you feel the need to latch on to an insignificant detail and turn it into the focus of your discussion.

But then I adressed the rest of your post above, and now you latched on to a detail in my post and responded to that, while ignoring the rest.

You trollin, man? Or do you just need a hug because Survival might get the axe?

[majikal]

Fuck yes I need a hug. Can I get a happy ending too?

[Purgatory]

Fuck yes I need a hug. Can I get a happy ending too?

If by "happy ending" you mean "Survival won't be banned", I can't really make any promises.

As I've stated before, I don't think that's what needs to be done, but I think that's what the DCI will do. Easy way out, kind of...

[Leftconsin]

Survival might just be the pic because it's the hot topic. Right? Right?

[Nidd]

I played ANT, they banned Mystical.
I play Bant Survival, now they ban Survival.

Bummers.

If I start playing 60Islands.dec, they'll ban Island, I'm sure!

[alphacat]

Fuck me sideways. Why do I even play this format? Every deck I pick up gets something in it banned. >:(

Well, the idea is, Legacy is such a big format, don't play the most dominating deck at the moment!

That aside, if this is real, I've really lost faith in Wizard's ability to maintain Legacy as a healthy format. Instead of banning VV and power-down one deck, they decided to ban Survival, which in effect KILLS 3+ decks. Although I was mentally prepared for this decision, I'm still taking it pretty hard. They better unban a lot of cards to counterbalance killing off this many decks.

[Tacosnape]

If by "happy ending" you mean "Survival won't be banned", I can't really make any promises.

So wait, if he actually means Happy Ending in the dirty way, you've got him covered?

[lordofthepit]

Fuck me sideways.


Fuck yes I need a hug. Can I get a happy ending too?


If by "happy ending" you mean "Survival won't be banned", I can't really make any promises.


So wait, if he actually means Happy Ending in the dirty way, you've got him covered?

I feel like I've stumbled across something very private... :eek:

Time to walk away and play it off cool... :cool:

[SurFitOfTheVine]

Omg

[Mark Sun]

Just fyi, the source of the picture was found: http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/features/feature122k_icon.jpg

Still up in the air in terms of exactly what it means, in my opinion.

[Koby]

This will set a dangerous precedent if it's true.

June 2011, Counterbalance and Sensei's Top banned, for being in Top 8.
September 2011, Lion's Eye Diamond banned for being colorless.
December 2011, Wild Nacatl banned for being too damn aggressive.
March 2012, Aether Vial banned for cheating at Magic.
June 2012, Brainstorm banned for drawing more than 1 card per turn.
September 2012, Ponder restricted for being the same mana cost as Brainstorm and looking at 3 cards.
December 20th, 2012 - End of the world.

You laugh now...

[alphacat]

This will set a dangerous precedent if it's true.

June 2011, Counterbalance and Sensei's Top banned, for being in Top 8.
September 2011, Lion's Eye Diamond banned for being colorless.
December 2011, Wild Nacatl banned for being too damn aggressive.
March 2012, Aether Vial banned for cheating at Magic.
June 2012, Brainstorm banned for drawing more than 1 card per turn.
September 2012, Ponder restricted for being the same mana cost as Brainstorm and looking at 3 cards.
December 20th, 2012 - End of the world.

You laugh now...

Like the good old saying, Wizards will ban everything until Rebel is good, then they'll ban Lin Sivvi.

[SlopeeJ]

or they could just ban the broken stuff, like cheap tutors that let you tutor over and over again for your win conditions

[alphacat]

or they could just ban the broken stuff, like cheap tutors that let you tutor over and over again for your win conditions

Right, because Bant and Elf Survival are oh so broken.

[Gui]

Survival might just be the pic because it's the hot topic. Right? Right?

This could be true, although rather unlikely. I'd put the picture of it even if it wasn't the card banned, was it me to take the decision on which pic to use.

[ryO!]

Like the good old saying, Wizards will ban everything until Rebel is good, then they'll ban Lin Sivvi.

sad but true.
Damn that is so nice to get back to a CBtop vs Merfolk vs Zoo meta, i mean change is EVIL and WRONG. That is to say something needed to be done. For the sake of pet decks please ban ban ban ban.
next => LED i mean if VV can kill on turn 4 with Sotf, why on earth LED isn't already banned i mean it can kills on turn 1 in a rather resilient shell ! (add cb&top, infernal tutors, fow, Etutor, BS, Intuition, any non basic land & islands ... well all "broken cards")
The future block after mirrondin² block, which will be called "The Rise of a Mindstabing Thrull Againt Rebel Crustacean & Friends" will lead to a nice aggro meta.
blue : merfolks & Homarids & Lobsters
red : goblins & Dwarfs & Minotaurs
white : Knights & Rebels & Monks
black : Thrulls & Vampires & Rats
green : Elves & Fungus & faeries

i am going to buy myself some box of fallen empire packs for xmas just in case.
Can't wait !

[Cenarius]

I wonder if Survival of the Fittest was on their watchlist already when they banned Mystical Tutor. I remember that one of the reasons for the banning of Mystical Tutor was, that it could enable a combo. I wonder if they thought the same thing about Survival of the Fittest.
I also wonder if the developing team of Rise of Eldrazi knew (or have thought about it in any way) that Vengevine could possibly be dangerous with Survival of the Fittest. Probably they knew Vengevine would be dangerous, because they printed a sem-like Survival of the Fittest in the form of Fauna Shaman. But maybe they didn't think it would be THAT dangerous.

Vengevine and Necrotic Ooze are relatively new to the format of Legacy, but they sure shook up the metagame. Our metagame (Netherlands) is pretty Survival-prove with a lot of combo decks floating around and sideboard cards like Pithing Needle/Krosan Grip, that can easily shut down the deck.

It's sad to say goodbye to Survival of the Fittest, but so be it. Jace, the walletsculptor will only get more expensive...

[death]

I feel like I've stumbled across something very private... :eek:

Time to walk away and play it off cool... :cool:

Same thoughts, amidst all the chaos in this forum, this made me giggles.:laugh:

[Lemnear]

This will set a dangerous precedent if it's true.

June 2011, Counterbalance and Sensei's Top banned, for being in Top 8.
September 2011, Lion's Eye Diamond banned for being colorless.
December 2011, Wild Nacatl banned for being too damn aggressive.
March 2012, Aether Vial banned for cheating at Magic.
June 2012, Brainstorm banned for drawing more than 1 card per turn.
September 2012, Ponder restricted for being the same mana cost as Brainstorm and looking at 3 cards.
December 20th, 2012 - End of the world.

You laugh now...

I could swear I said nearly the same in another topic on the board. Follow the timeline without dates:

- Survival gets banned, Meerfolk vs. Countertop again
- Top accused of being a repeatable and legal method of stalling
- Top gets the hammer and Zoo/Tribal vs. Landstill is the new metagame
- TES regains it's power due to the absence of Countertop and beats asses
- Zoo-Player complain that they can't beat TES and refuse to play cannonist or Teeg Maindeck cuz they are so "narrow"
- some idiots claims that TES has 70% against the field (data maybe out of a 30-man local tournament) and ALWAYS kill turn 1-2. They compare the deck to Burning Desire.dec aka Long.dec
- LED and Infernal get banned and Tribal/Zoo domiante with little Landstill trying to catch-up
- Zoo complains about Goblin's/meerfolk's aether vial and the mana-cheating it provides.
- Aether vial gets the hammer and Zoo rules supreme against a meta of 8 swords/ 8 wrath control

[DrJones]

That doesn't happen because Zoo is easy to hate.

Funny enough, Survival gets the axe, it doesn't surprise me. I was waiting for that to happen before start playing again.

The problem card is still Force of Will, which unsurprisingly also was a component in this deck. I actually predicted this would happen when the Mystical Tutor banning happened, and back before when the Flash banning happened. Look in the archives. I'm the singled-out guy that points to the problem but nobody listen to him because they don't like what he says.

[Koby]

I don't appreciate that when a new deck comes around (Entomb reanimator, Tier 1 Survival decks) the DCI is eager to ban archetypal components, but when CBTop and Forcebof Will and Brainstorm start dominating top 8s we have to continue to suffer with it. This policy is both inconsistent and unfair to the people who play the format for more than the 1 month SCG Open comes to town.

I really wish there was a way to get this thru to WotC.

[Purgatory]

I feel like I've stumbled across something very private... :eek:

Time to walk away and play it off cool... :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pamgat1Wro

[Solar Ice]

Voted Survival to get the chop. Sadly, I think that is what they will do. If that happens it would be a wrong choice at this point in time, imho. They could have waited 3 more months and then see what happened before taking action. Wrecking an archetype that has been fair for the past 5-6 years, over 1 problematic, recently printed card (whiclh they could ban without any legitimate complaints - again in 3 months time), very sad and more so very unfair. If Survival is indeed banned it is likely to be an irreversable desision. I truly hope that they will wait before pulling the trigger.

One thing that strongly points to a Survival banning is, if true, the pic that someone posted of the B/R announcement with the Survival pic on it. Another is that if they have a meeting on the B/R list weeks before the announcement, then the Worlds legacy results (in Survival's defence) wouild have no bearing on the desision.

[DragoFireheart]

One thing that strongly points to a Survival banning is, if true, the pic that someone posted of the B/R announcement with the Survival pic on it. Another is that if they have a meeting on the B/R list weeks before the announcement, then the Worlds legacy results (in Survival's defence) wouild have no bearing on the desision.

Dude, whomever made that pic is trolling us. I'm still holding onto my survivals.

[Julian23]

Dude, whomever made that pic is trolling us. I'm still holding onto my survivals.

Wizards of the Coast are trolling us?! It's on their server.

[DragoFireheart]

Wizards of the Coast are trolling us?! It's on their server.

Yup.

Did they do some cool pic for mystical tutor? No, not that I can remember at least. The pic means nothing and they know that doing so would get a reaction out of everyone that see's it. They are also aware that everyone is waiting on them to decide the fate of Survival. Hence, the pic.

Don't assume that the mood of the general public is going to decide the fate of SotF. Last time WotC banned something, many people on this site were either indifferent or disagreed with the ban.

[Solar Ice]

Yup.

Did they do some cool pic for mystical tutor? No, not that I can remember at least. The pic means nothing and they know that doing so would get a reaction out of everyone that see's it. They are also aware that everyone is waiting on them to decide the fate of Survival. Hence, the pic.
.

I hope you're right, dude. Though I have my doubts.

@ Topic:

Just want to add that I get the feeling that they will unban something as well. I think that Frantic Search is a strong candidate. Land Tax is a ridiculous banning but they would have removed it from the list a long time ago if they wanted to, so it will probably stay on.

So, final prediction:

Survival of the Fittest is banned in Legacy
Frantic Search is no longer banned in Legacy

[DragoFireheart]

I also have the theory that Land Tax staying on the banned list with SDT off it is another way WotC is trolling us.

[Solar Ice]

I also have the theory that Land Tax staying on the banned list with SDT off it is another way WotC is trolling us.

Haha, that could be true, man :P

They love Counterbalance too much to switch the Tax with Top :P (not saying they should do that, though)

[dahcmai]

I can totally understand having Land Tax stay banned while SDT is around. Can you imagine the frustration of playing against a really slow person that is playing Land Tax with a Top? It would be excruciating. They'd top during the upkeep, then tax, then top again afterward all before drawing a card just to give them the best chance of drawing something they needed. "Ugh, go already!" would be the tournament scenes new anthem.

Terrible thing is if Land Tax came off the list, that's exactly what deck I would put it in, one that already has tops in it.

[Captain_Morgan]

I'm guessing Tarmogoyf gets banned, just for the hell of it.

Survival's probably getting the ax too considering someone found a reasonable graphic.

[Atwa]

My guess is Survival getting banned and nothing coming of the list.

Seeing they could have taken off Land Tax some years ago now (and they told many times they hate the what the card does), I don't see it coming off anytime soon.

Also, I don't think cards like Hermit or Earthcraft coming off. I don't see them kill off one engine to replace it with another one.

[median]

I can't honestly see the dci banning survival this close to christmas.
Just imagine little timmy opening his present from Santa, a playset of vengevines that the elves worked so hard for. Then timmy cries, they're banned in legacy, rotating out, and no one wants them.
They have to be moral about these things or a lot of kids will be really upset.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I can't honestly see the dci banning survival this close to christmas.
Just imagine little timmy opening his present from Santa, a playset of vengevines that the elves worked so hard for. Then timmy cries, they're banned in legacy, rotating out, and no one wants them.
They have to be moral about these things or a lot of kids will be really upset.

Or they are one of the hottest cards in Standard right now short of Jace and Primeval Titan and they will not rotate out for almost a year then they will probably still see play in Extended. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Vengevine sees more play in Extended than Prime Titan and ends up be worth more than him after rotation.

[median]

ok then say timmy gets survivals, timmy has 4 copies of a card only good in EDH.

[Gui]

Ok, so The Source believes survival will be gone tomorrow with 60%+, followed far away by "Nothing will be banned" with ~30%, and Vengevine with less than 10%. Let's see how accurate are people claims here at the mighty The Source for legacy ^^

Good luck to us, I guess =P

[dontbiteitholmes]

ok then say timmy gets survivals, timmy has 4 copies of a card only good in EDH.

Yeah, I guess Timmy's pretty fucked then, but who gets $100 playsets of Legacy cards for X-Mas?

[Pich]

My bro is a Timmy. SAD.

[Barook]

So:

SotF got banned.
Time Spiral got unbanned.

[yawg07]

Official. BANNED. http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/122k

[Nightmare]

I'd be lying if I said I saw that coming...

[MMogg]

Time Spiral buying frenzy . . . commence!

[Nidd]

Fuck you guys, Time Spiral is sold out on MKM.

[DragoFireheart]

I'd be lying if I said I saw that coming...

I'm not surprised in the least, but I didn't know for sure either.

[keys]

Time Spiral is terrible... don't bother

[Valrina]

*predicts future*

Surival gets the hammer
Burning Wish goes to the Watchlist
Land Tax is unbanned
Time Spiral is unbanned

If you ignore one line .... called it ^^

;) nxt time listen to what I say ...lol

[Skeggi]

Looks like the majority of us are correct. Good thing to know :smile:

[Gui]

Looks like the prediction was right, then. Congratulations mtgthesource, the best place for legacy, indeed. ^^

I predict someone in a near future will be asking for its unban the same way they did for earthcraft and frantic search xD

[ddt15]

Time Spiral is terrible... don't bother
+1

[Meekrab]

I have three, independent predictions.

1) No new bans.
2) some crap card(s) will get unbanned and proceed to see no play
3) in two months people will be screaming for card X to be banned, where X is not Vengevine or Survival of the Fittest.
Well, I missed #1. But #3 is still in play.

Impress me, Legacy community.

[cjva]

Well, I missed #1. But #3 is still in play.

Impress me, Legacy community.

Yes.

They came first for Reanimator
and I didn't speak up because I didn't play Reanimator.

Then they came for Survival,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't play Survival.

Then they came for the next trend,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't play the next trend.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

I think that the crucial discussion we must have in the legacy community if we want a format that aims on keeping pillars, like the DCI's policy obv is about vintage "These decks you can play, and if you play somethign to good outside of these pillars we will ban it", or if we want a dynamic format where people are given the time to adept to any given meta.

Yes Survival was crazy good, but with a cardpool as deep as legacys, the answer is there. Survival was not a problem in Europe, Survival was not a problem in the history, and looking on how Solidarity goes back and forth in the history to adept to different metas, I start think about why the legacy community doesnt do the same. Control != Aggro-control. Aggro != Tribal.

[Gui]

Well, I missed #1. But #3 is still in play.

Impress me, Legacy community.

I predict that they will be claiming to ban Vengevine in some time soon ^^