Monoblack Aggro

[DarthVicious]

Couldn't find a thread for this, and I figured there should be one, this deck has been around for centuries in various forms. I posted it in N&D because MBA has been far from the spotlight for a long time. If I am wrong and there is already a thread, lock/delete this one. I did run a few searches though.

Now that I got the little disclaimer out of the way, we can get to the main course.

First, the list.


4 Aether Vial
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Skittering Skirge
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Royal Assassin
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Vampire Nighthawk

16 Swamp
4 Wasteland


Sideboard depends on meta, obviously. Some nice synergies in there, like vialing creatures bypassing the Skirge drawback, and the sword recurring Fulminator every turn. That's vicious, especially with an active vial. Arena is better than Confidant in this deck, as 1 or 2 life loss per turn is better than three to six.

I also considered some spot discard, and some other creatures. Namely, Phylactery Lich and Tombstalker. My limited testing with this list shows being hyper aggressive is what the deck needs to do to win.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

[mugs]

dark ritual for starters

[Karhumies]

Couldn't find a thread for this, and I figured there should be one, this deck has been around for centuries in various forms. I posted it in N&D because MBA has been far from the spotlight for a long time. If I am wrong and there is already a thread, lock/delete this one. I did run a few searches though.

Arguably, you might be trying to reconstruct an established monoblack deck known as The Gate (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16885-%5BDeck%5D-The-Gate), so named after Gatekeeper of Malakir. The deck has become quite controllish out of necessity, as monogreen Berserk Stompy (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15020-%5BDeck%5D-Berserk-Stompy/page42) decks are just plain faster and black does not have access to UG Vengevine Aggro (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2571-%5BDTB%5D-UG-Survival-Vengevine-%28formerly-UG-Madness%29/page36)'s counterspells (no longer DTB after Survival gets banned in Jan 2011). To remain competitive in today's Legacy meta, it is essential to have a fighting plan vs DTW TES (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15028-%5BDTW%5D-T-E-S-The-EPIC-Storm/page69) and other combo decks with a fundamental turn 3. Your 4 Wasteland + 4 Hymn to Tourach does not achieve this, so I recommend to check the Gate thread for inspiration. Most of your MD cards have already been discussed - and dismissed - in that thread.

[DarthVicious]

Dark ritual would make it quick enough with spot discard and wasteland/hymn to fight combo. I've considered that, just haven't tested it.

However, I'm talking about an Aggro deck, not an aggro version of the gate. Gate is a controllish deck, and I believe black is weaker than blue, and even white, at playing the control.

Aside from the assassins, I'd like some more permanent based cards to stem other aggro. Stuff like E. Plague. I was considering Oblivion Stone but its way too slow for Legacy. No cute tricks, just the right cards with raw speed and efficiency.

[Mr. Safety]

Dark ritual would make it quick enough with spot discard and wasteland/hymn to fight combo. I've considered that, just haven't tested it.

However, I'm talking about an Aggro deck, not an aggro version of the gate. Gate is a controllish deck, and I believe black is weaker than blue, and even white, at playing the control.

Aside from the assassins, I'd like some more permanent based cards to stem other aggro. Stuff like E. Plague. I was considering Oblivion Stone but its way too slow for Legacy. No cute tricks, just the right cards with raw speed and efficiency.

I would say cards like Snuff Out and Ratchet Bomb should be on your playtesting list. I'm a little confused about your lack of 1-drop creatures, too. Vampire Lacerator and Carnophage are both classic aggro tech. There is a thread based on Death's Shadow, too, which attempts something similar to this, just no Aether Vials.

BTW, in a deck like this, you would be nutso to not include Dark Confidant over Phyrexian Arena.

[kiblast]

I would say cards like Snuff Out and Ratchet Bomb should be on your playtesting list. I'm a little confused about your lack of 1-drop creatures, too. Vampire Lacerator and Carnophage are both classic aggro tech. There is a thread based on Death's Shadow, too, which attempts something similar to this, just no Aether Vials.

BTW, in a deck like this, you would be nutso to not include Dark Confidant over Phyrexian Arena.

Yep.
-4 Phyrexian Arena
+4 Dark Confidant

Also Royal Assassin is awful nowadays. I'd switch to something better regarding cmc/power ratio . Something like Dauthi Slayer, since you are packing lots of equipments. A playset of Withered Wretch between main and side is needed to fight graves.
Fulminator mage? I don't think it is very useful if you plan to attack with your creatures. 4 Thoughtseize would be nice, taking removals and Tarmogoyfs / other random blockers / threats from opponents hands.

-4 Fulminator Mage
+4 Thoughtseize
-4 Royal Assassin
+4 Dauthi Slayer

Carnophage gets outclassed by everything now, people now argue that Nimble Mongoose is starting to become weak, how could Carnophage be better?
I'd try to squeeze at least 3x Duress too, maybe removing tourach. I'd rather play a threath on my second turn than have a Tourach. 1st turn targeted discard (for their removal) into 2nd turn beater sounds good. Also 7 1cc discard spells maindeck help you a lot against TES or ANT.

Hope this helps, I like classic Mono Black Aggro more than The Gate, even if just for the flavour.

[Mr. Safety]

Carnophage gets outclassed by everything now, people now argue that Nimble Mongoose is starting to become weak, how could Carnophage be better?

Agreed, but playing inefficient creatures like Fulminator Mage or Royal Assassin? You have to admit that Carnophage is at least BETTER than those 2.

[kiblast]

Agreed, but playing inefficient creatures like Fulminator Mage or Royal Assassin? You have to admit that Carnophage is at least BETTER than those 2.

I don't know if you read only that sentence or all my post. I know that Mage and Assassin are inefficent, but sadly so it is Carnophage. I'd rather play Dauthi Slayer, as I suggested above. Basically there are no really efficient turn 1 beaters for MBA anymore. Turn one discard makes turn two beater sure that it will effectively beat and not get bolted pathed or sworded. Who cares if you don't drop a creature turn 1?

Edit: oh, you should play fetches too. I think a number between 6-7 is good.

[Karhumies]

However, I'm talking about an Aggro deck, not an aggro version of the gate. Gate is a controllish deck, and I believe black is weaker than blue, and even white, at playing the control.

Dark Confidant, Vampire Nighthawk and Abyssal Persecutor are arguably the best black creatures in their respective cmc slots (given that you consider Tombstalker to be cmc 8- instead of cmc 2+). The Gate is playing a full playset of all three, while you are resorting to subpar creature choices. The Gate also has Jitte to back up the creatures, and 14 (or so) MD one-drops versus your four.

All in all, Gate is much much more aggro than your current MD. Even if you do consider that deck to be "too controllish", you should at least start your own list with the best black aggro cards available and move from there. The problem with black aggro decks, though, is that unless they run Hatred or other suicide-style quick finishers, they are bound to be destroyed by board wipes such as Pernicious Deed unless you run a heavy discard suite alongside your creatures. That's where it starts to get controllish in order to improve deck success rate across the wide "general Legacy metagame".

Black decks had a really bad survival MU because of mono-black's inability to exile stuff. Now that Survival is banned starting January, black does have a decent chance to become viable again.

Ratchet Bomb is probably a SB card. Fights for similar slots with slower Oblivion Stone and Nevinyrral's Disk. The problem is, you'd often like to have spot removal for artifact/enchantment which prevents your combat (Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Humility, Elephant Grass and such) but black usually has to wipe the whole board incl. your own creatures, which will most likely just result in your own loss.


Other MD card suggestions depending on where you want to go:

Dauthi Slayer + equipment
Bloodghast for sacrifice effects or discard costs
Entomb as 1-drop if you are able to figure out a way to exploit it
Tombstalker if you don't run Dark Confidant
Hunted Horror if you can figure out a way to deal with the opposing tokens
Black Knight if you need something that is not hit by StoP/PtE
Phylactery Lich if you can figure out a way to exploit it
Death's Shadow if you plan to pay lots of life very fast
Drinker of Sorrow, Arrogant Bloodlord or Avatar of Discord if you can afford their drawbacks
Nyxathid if you run a heavy discard suite
Drana, Klastria Bloodchief as a finisher if you can afford that much mana (Abyssal Persecutor is usually so much better because it costs :1: less)
Vampire Hexmage + Dark Depths for Marit Lage

[DarthVicious]

I've included ritual. Can't afford not to. Tombstalker would be good too. Thought about avatar of discord as well, considering the advantage arenas give. Good call on dauthi slayer too, I forgot about that guy. Maybe MD Lich. Those should increase the offensive potential.

I've locked people out with Fulminator, the sword, and vial@3. Ill keep two or three in the board for those matchups. Extirpate looks good out of the board too. Prolly MD some thoughtseize too.

Lots of good ideas.

[Mr. Safety]

I don't know if you read only that sentence or all my post. I know that Mage and Assassin are inefficent, but sadly so it is Carnophage. I'd rather play Dauthi Slayer, as I suggested above. Basically there are no really efficient turn 1 beaters for MBA anymore. Turn one discard makes turn two beater sure that it will effectively beat and not get bolted pathed or sworded. Who cares if you don't drop a creature turn 1?

Well put. I did read your whole post. :) I was assuming a deck without Dark Ritual, so having a blank turn 1 (you don't have a targeted discard in hand) would be worse than a 'bad' threat like Carnophage/Vampire Lacerator. I wouldn't call Carnophage inefficient either, you still get a 2/2 for B. Bad maybe, but not inefficient. I agree, turn 1 targeted discard, turn 2 threat is BETTER, or just using Dark Ritual to do BOTH on turn 1. We are on the same page I think, I was just looking at the 1-drop dudes as like a plan C (plan A = targeted discard, plan B = Dark Ritual into targeted discard OR 2-3 mana threat, maybe both, and plan C = if you don't have A or B, play an aggressive 1 mana dork so you can at least begin the clock)

BTW, I noticed your mtgfanatic tag on your signature...I am the same Mr. Safety from that site as well. Go mtgfanatic!

[merquise]

Have you considered Sarcomancy for that deck also...

[kiblast]

Well put. I did read your whole post. :) I was assuming a deck without Dark Ritual, so having a blank turn 1 (you don't have a targeted discard in hand) would be worse than a 'bad' threat like Carnophage/Vampire Lacerator. I wouldn't call Carnophage inefficient either, you still get a 2/2 for B. Bad maybe, but not inefficient. I agree, turn 1 targeted discard, turn 2 threat is BETTER, or just using Dark Ritual to do BOTH on turn 1. We are on the same page I think, I was just looking at the 1-drop dudes as like a plan C (plan A = targeted discard, plan B = Dark Ritual into targeted discard OR 2-3 mana threat, maybe both, and plan C = if you don't have A or B, play an aggressive 1 mana dork so you can at least begin the clock)

BTW, I noticed your mtgfanatic tag on your signature...I am the same Mr. Safety from that site as well. Go mtgfanatic!

With 4x Aether Vial , 4x Thoughtseize and 4x duress , I'd say there are plenty of turn 1 plays. 8 targeted discard at cc 1 seems that i'll discard something 90% of the times in my first turn. I dislike Ritual in decks with a so low curve.

[Mr. Safety]

Well reasoned...but I stand by the fact that Dark Ritual can make for insane (if overextended) turn 1 plays. You could also shave off 1-2 land that way and still viably get your business on earlier. Just a different perspective is all. Why play Aether Vial turn 1 with the potential of Daze/FoW hitting it when you could play Dark Ritual >>> Duress (rob force or weazel it out) >>> Aether Vial? Just my honest opinion is all. Good discussion! ;)

[kiblast]

Well reasoned...but I stand by the fact that Dark Ritual can make for insane (if overextended) turn 1 plays. You could also shave off 1-2 land that way and still viably get your business on earlier. Just a different perspective is all. Why play Aether Vial turn 1 with the potential of Daze/FoW hitting it when you could play Dark Ritual >>> Duress (rob force or weazel it out) >>> Aether Vial? Just my honest opinion is all. Good discussion! ;)

If opponent can Force Daze or Pierce your vial, will surely do the same on your Ritual. Everybody knows that the first thing coming out from Rit mana is a Duress or a Thoughtseize. I'ts a stupid play to have a turn 1 Ritual resolved. I understand the power of Ritual, but in this deck becomes useless after turn 3...unless you have over-curve bombs like Juzam Djinns or you have to feed your Tombstalkers.
Good discussion indeed :)

[DarthVicious]

Ritual can also give shades +3/+3.

Anyway, I'm changing some of the critters in the main. I'll update the OP later.

[Galroth]

Might I suggest reading through the Suicide Black thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3451-[Deck]-Suicide-Black

All of these topics have been covered extensively in that thread, and admittedly the thread is not as named, about Suicide Black. That arch-type for all purposes does not exist in legacy. Suicide Black is Mono-black Aggro - with The Gate being a very specific build of mono-black aggro that focuses on mid-game control.

DarthVicious, I think you'll find a trove of good info and ideas, plus tons of testing from many many people. It's a long read, and the beginnings of the thread date a few blocks back, so you might skim/skip the early postings.

[wcm8]

Ever look at Dark Depths combo in vintage? I think you could start with some of the ideas there and adapt it for legacy. A rough list:

4 dark confidant
4 vampire hexmage
4 gatekeeper of malakir
4 dark ritual
4 thoughtsieze
4 hymn to tourach
4 leyline of the void
2 helm of obedience
2 sensei's divining top
3 beseech the queen
3 diabolic edict
1 crucible of worlds
4 wasteland
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 dark depths
12 swamp

I know this idea has been thrown around a lot, but I think it could potentially work in a mono black shell.

[DarthVicious]

Anyway, I've done some testing. Lists are easier to read than changes, so I'll post my current list.


3 Skittering Skirge
3 Dauthi Slayer
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Avatar of Discord
2 Tombstalker
2 Phylactery Lich

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Aether Vial
4 Phyrexian Arena
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Umezawa's Jitte

15 Swamp
4 Wasteland


3 Withered Wretch
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Shriekmaw
3 Extirpate
3 Deathmark


Some targeted removal for the board, along with grave haters. Not sure about Deathmark as it only hits G/W, but that may be enough. I'm debating over whether Duress or Thoughtseize would be better than Hymn in the main. The deck has enough ways of generating card and board advantage that being able to nab their best card for one mana sounds really profitable, especially when it's the removal spell that would've hit your 5 power beater. Or some stupid artifact that stops you from attacking. Hymn is only really good early game.

[Mr. Safety]

I wouldn't play Avatar of Discord without a reanimation spell. The potential for a 3-for-1 lopsided exchange when someone plays Swords on it is really risky. A turn 1 5/3 flyer is great...but risky considering the discard effect.

If you were using Demigod of Revenge along with Bloodghast...that's a different story.

[DarthVicious]

I wouldn't play Avatar of Discord without a reanimation spell. The potential for a 3-for-1 lopsided exchange when someone plays Swords on it is really risky. A turn 1 5/3 flyer is great...but risky considering the discard effect.

If you were using Demigod of Revenge along with Bloodghast...that's a different story.

I would. I also wouldn't ritual him out first turn unless I knew my opponent was playing combo. I'd ritual into something like Slayer/Skirge and Vial, or an Arena. Ritualing out Arena is a key play.

I thought about Demigod, but decided against it because five mana is a lot to ask, even if you manage to get some in the yard with avatars. Fifteen land gets me about three or four by the time I should be winning, unless I get two arenas out.

[nedleeds]

Black Knight with a weapon is GG against many decks. For example, Black Knight with SoFI can't be killed by most Counterbalance decks. Lich is dookie without Chalice of the Void (he's not great even with Chalice).

The list above doesn't look very aggro at all, it's more mid range. Aggressive black creatures like

- Flesh Reaver
- Phyrexian Negator
- Bloodghast (also gives you some mid-game, lets you run Cabal Therapy instead of Duress)

should be somewhere in a MBA deck

[DarthVicious]

Black Knight with a weapon is GG against many decks. For example, Black Knight with SoFI can't be killed by most Counterbalance decks. Lich is dookie without Chalice of the Void (he's not great even with Chalice).

The list above doesn't look very aggro at all, it's more mid range. Aggressive black creatures like

- Flesh Reaver
- Phyrexian Negator
- Bloodghast (also gives you some mid-game, lets you run Cabal Therapy instead of Duress)

should be somewhere in a MBA deck

I've tested Negators and they cause more problems than they solve. I can't see Reavers being any better, just twice the body for the same cost with a drawback instead of evasion. Bloodghast I also tested with mild success. He's better as a sac outlet than a beater. Black Knight also has no evasion.

[DarthVicious]

Played in a weekly Legacy the last night, and I'm proud of the deck even though I went 1-2-1.
The main was the same as my last post, I think, except 4 Hymn was 4 Thoughtseize.
SB was 4 Withered Wretch, 4 Duress, 4 Shriekmaw, 3 Damnation.

Rnd 1 - Rock 2-1
Game 1 I get Rit->Arena first turn, and play a second on the third turn. Vial@3 was also in play. He couldn't keep up.
Game 2 He gets double Bob and I can't keep up.
Game 3 was actually a game. I don't remember much of it as I'm posting from memory, but I remember having Shriekmaw in the grave with a SoLS on a Slayer. Plus Arena in play.

Rnd 2 - Ichorid 1-2
Game 1 I have nothing relevant to stop him. He eventually Dread Returns Iona on black, as if it was necessary.
Game 2 I get Withered Wretch in play turn 1 off Rit, plus a Vial. He lost this game because killing my Wretch exiled two Bridges, and I had enough gas to keep going.
Game 3 ended with me having Vial@3 in play and 2 Hypnotics. He had Iona on black. I needed Nighthawk. I drew a swamp.

Rnd 3 - Gate 1-2
Game 1 I get way more creatures in play than he has removal for and swarm him. 1st turn Arena wins another game.
Game 2 He drops a kicked Gatekeeper every time I drop a creature. Then I'm stuck on two land with two Arena in hand.
Game 3 See Game 2.

Rnd 4 - Burn Draw
We agreed if we got paired in the last round we'd just draw and drop to go eat.


So... Things I've learned:
Withered Wretch isn't good enough. Back to Leyline, even though it can't attack.
Arena wins games. Get it into play. The faster the better. The more the merrier.
Vial is freakishly good. Too bad it can't put Arena into play.
I need more removal. Shriekmaw is good enough for the main.
Thoughtseize sucked. Hymn was ok, but this deck needs removal.

I'd like the removal to be some kind of creature, this was my reasoning for Royal Assassin. It is reusable removal, and usually it prevents your opponent from attacking you. Or he eats a removal spell (That would've been aimed at your other creatures) so your opponent can attack with something. Either way you have an advantage. But... he's a 1/1 for 1BB. I'll test him. Why not. Shriekmaw is good with Sword active. Maybe Garza's Assassin would be ok?

Phylactery Lich rarely proved worthy, I'll probably cut him for another Stalker and another Avatar. Got stuck in my hand once or twice, and Indestructible doesn't matter in a format that runs exile/sacrifice types of removal.

Rarely did I not want to cast Avatar when I had the opportunity. Two Arenas pretty much mean you can do whatever you want to, and one pretty much ensures you can cast him safely. Even multiples over several turns. He is a beast.

[DarthVicious]

Another report I have, this time from the Vestal Duals 1/22. This is the list I ran.


3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Avatar of Discord
3 Tombstalker
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Big Game Hunter
4 Shriekmaw
4 Dark Ritual
4 Aether Vial
4 Phyrexian Arena
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
15 Swamp
4 Wasteland

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Duress
4 Pithing Needle
3 Urborg Justice


R1: Zoo
Lost 1-2
I hate losing matches I should be winning, but I had lots of bad draws. Game 1 I get Arena and Vial@3 going and he can't keep up with all the removal. I almost lost this one until SoLS brought me back in. Game 2 he burns some of my dudes and a pair of 3/4 goyfs get him there while I have two BGH in hand. Game three he gets two goyfs at 5/6 and I don't see BGH to save my life.
This prompts me to make one of the changes I made, which may be obvious.

R2: Merfolk
Lost 0-2
Game 1 was really close. If BGH was relevant I would've won, but it was still one of the two best games of the day I had. Game 2 he just had all the right answers for the few relevant cards I drew, and I drew like crap. More bad luck.
This matchup was the other reason for the same change Zoo led me to.

R3: Lands
Drew 1-1
Game 1 goes for fifteen to twenty minutes before I scoop to Loam and three Mazes. I had enough of that shit. Game 2 I spot his only real threat to my chances in EE plus Academy Ruins, and I quickly Needle it. I keep him off his answers for Needle via Intuitions, while giving him answers to Leylines. Once we go into turns I finally draw a second Needle and I have enough board presence to attack for the win, drawing the match.
I really missed Fulminator during this match, but whatever. Needle and Leyline were enough.

R4: Kobold Combo
Lost 0-2
As soon as I recognized his deck I knew I had no chance. Chalice would've been great, but that's another story. Game 1 he fizzled three times, but had enough critters to Bushwacker me so Arena killed me on my turn. Game 2 he goes off from double Glimpse and drops twenty or so creatures, then casts Scapegoat. I couldn't watch any more.

R5: LED Dredge
Won 2-0
He dredges some stuff with Pimp and discards a second Bridge pretty early. I evoke Shriekmaw with no target and then drop an Avatar, end of story. Game 2 Leyline rules his world. He said he wasn't expecting it to show up today. Felt bad for the guy because he ended up against my brother the next round, who also has Leyline in the board.

R6: Reanimator
Won 2-0
After Reanimating Inkwell, he is at 9 and I have a Shriekmaw attacking next turn at 11 life. I drop another while swinging with the first to put him at six and he scoops. Game 2 he has no answer for Leyline because he took S&T out of his deck before the tourney. Lucky I guess.

R7: Countertop Jace
Won 2-1
Game 1 I win off the back of Arena and Vial@3. Game 2 I don't remember how he wins, maybe I didn't draw enough removal. Game 3 was with 17 left on the clock, and almost went to time. This was the other great game I played of the day. He counters my first turn Ritual, which leaves my second turn Vial unhindered, and I drop third turn Arena. He drops Countertop and Jace and I can play around both. Eventually I kill Jace and he drops another. I Needle Jace before he gets above six. He can't stick a creature to the board to save his life, and we get down to the wire with minutes left in the round, so I drop a second Arena. He counters my equipment, but that's not enough to save him.

Bad luck in the early rounds keeps me from doing really well, and I believe it stems from the targetting requirement of BGH. Some fatter creatures would've been nice, along with more equipment to pump the smaller ones. So... here are the changes I made.

Main:
-4 Big Game Hunter
Only good against certain decks, so I moved them to the board in favor of a fatter beater.
-4 Dark Ritual
Needed room to fit other cards. The early speed boost was hardly relevant in most cases anyway.
+4 Hidden Horror
The fatter beater who also synergizes with postboard BGH.
+2 Swamp
Hands with two or three land were almost always keepable, and this makes that happen more frequently.
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
Kinda obvious, I wanted more equipment, and the deck needs a reliable way to kill smaller dudes, like Lavamancer and random Fish-People. Pro Red & Blue will also be nice to have.

SB:
-4 Duress
Almost never boarded in, and never relevant when they were. Felt like a dead card because it doesn't accomplish as much as it should.
-3 Urborg Justice
Also almost never boarded in, even though it is a potential 2-mana instant speed Wrath. That potential was never realized, maybe someone else will get lucky enough to see this card work.
+4 Big Game Hunter
Kills fatties like a champ. Boarded in against S&T, Reanimator, Knights, Goyfs, the list is endless. So useful of a dude. I once Vialed him in to kill a 6/7 Goyf and chumpblock his attacker. Also mitigates the drawbacks of Avatar and Horror as long as your opponent has a creature for him to target. His only problems are being 1/1 and his inability to kill smaller dudes.
+3 Hecatomb
I feel the deck needs an answer to Artifacts and Enchantments, but the only ones that matter are the ones that stop it from attacking. Hecatomb is the black card that takes a page from Goblins book in that it allows you to use direct damage to kill your opponent, getting around things like Peacekeeper, Propaganda, Ensnaring Bridge, etc, much like SGC does. There is enough creatures in this deck to make it easily castable should it resolve, and if it doesn't you don't have to sacrifice them.

I think this deck can be a real contender, especially after the changes I made. Of course, suggestions are welcome.

By the way, I am aware of the fact that this deck has zero to no chance in the combo matchup.

[DarthVicious]

-4 Hidden Horror
He sucks. Royally sucks.
+1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
+3 Garza's Assassin

SB
-4 Big Game Hunter
Too cute to be really good.
For now, replaced with Secret Tech...

[bakofried]

You may want to try Revoker main. I'd do it.

[DarthVicious]

You may want to try Revoker main. I'd do it.

I thought about maindecking Revoker. I don't know, but that's basically an open slot. I figured more creature based removal would be good, but I don't have many options left.

Played in a weekly legacy last night and finished 3-1. Matchups were BUG stuff, Ichorid, WG Fauna Vengevine w/NO Progenitus, and CounterTop Jace. Tiebreakers keep me from winning anything but its ok as I just wanted to test the deck.

With Revoker MD ... I'd still run Needles in the board. Sometimes you need to name land. Although, Chalice out of the board would be good too.

With all these artifacts I want the Lich back, but I will have to test him.

[DarthVicious]

4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Shriekmaw
3 Avatar of Discord
3 Tombstalker
3 Garza's Assassin

4 Aether Vial
4 Phyrexian Arena
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

18 Swamp
3 Bojuka Bog


4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crypt Rats
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Hecatomb

[Greenpoe]

I tested a similar build with Confidant over Phyrexian Arena, but it feels too slow. Since the deck is only permanents, it was hard to feed Tombstalker. I like the idea of making a removal-centric approach (perhaps with Nighthawk + Ogre Marauder + Garza's Assassin + Shriekmaw), but it felt vunerable without Thoughtseize + Hymn to Tourach. Shriekmaw and Confidant do well with Ritual, as topdecked rituals will help you cast the extra cards you draw, pay for equip costs and pay the full 5 mana for Shriekmaw.

18 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Dark Confidant
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Shriekmaw
3 Garza's Assasin

2 Umewaza's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Inquisition to Kozilek

Sideboard:
3 Engineered Plague
4 Dystopia
3 Hecatomb
4 Phyrexian Revoker

More than half the deck will deal with your opponent's creatures, with 8 ways to kill Progenitus and Emrakul, Like I said, I like Shriekmaw because of the versatility to attack with evasion and kill something in the mid/late game. Garza's Assasin is pretty awesome too, recurring removal is fantastic. Ogre Marauder works suprising well because they must sacrifice a creature on the attacker step, so to actually block, they need at least 2 creatures, and since the deck has so much removal + Confidant, they usually won't. If they do have 2 or more creatures, there's a good chance that their creature dies to the Ogre's 3 damage. Also, there's synergy between the Ogre + Tomb of Urami. Gatekeeper and Nighthawk speak for themselves, but Nighthawk and Jitte are especially important in case Confidant+Garza's Assasin+Thoughtseize cost you too much life. 6 Discard spells because the deck lacks 1-drops, and Dark Ritual became superior to Vial with so many non-creature spells. The 4x equipment is also essential, as without equips, you have to swarm to win. I prefer the smaller creatures + equipment rather than Tombstalker or Avatar of Discord or Tarmogoyf due to resilience of equips as a win-con. I dropped Wastelands because the deck is manahungry with equipment, cards drawn off Confidant, re-casting Garza's Assasin or for playing Shriekmaw, and I got sick of not having BB on turn 2 for Hymn or BBB for Gatekeeper or Garza's Assasin.

[DarthVicious]

I tested a similar build with Confidant over Phyrexian Arena, but it feels too slow. Since the deck is only permanents, it was hard to feed Tombstalker. I like the idea of making a removal-centric approach, but it felt vunerable without Thoughtseize + Hymn to Tourach. Shriekmaw and Confidant do well with Ritual, as topdecked rituals will help you cast the extra cards you draw, pay for equip costs and pay the full 5 mana for Shriekmaw.

*list*

More than half the deck will deal with your opponent's creatures, with 8 ways to kill Progenitus and Emrakul, Like I said, I like Shriekmaw because of the versatility to attack with evasion and kill something in the mid/late game. Garza's Assasin is pretty awesome too, recurring removal is fantastic. Ogre Marauder works suprising well because they must sacrifice a creature on the attacker step, so to actually block, they need at least 2 creatures, and since the deck has so much removal + Confidant, they usually won't. If they do have 2 or more creatures, there's a good chance that their creature dies to the Ogre's 3 damage. Also, there's synergy between the Ogre + Tomb of Urami. Gatekeeper and Nighthawk speak for themselves, but Nighthawk and Jitte are especially important in case Confidant+Garza's Assasin+Thoughtseize cost you too much life. 6 Discard spells because the deck lacks 1-drops, and Dark Ritual became superior to Vial with so many non-creature spells. The 4x equipment is also essential, as without equips, you have to swarm to win. I prefer the smaller creatures + equipment rather than Tombstalker or Avatar of Discord or Tarmogoyf due to resilience of equips as a win-con. I dropped Wastelands because the deck is manahungry with equipment, cards drawn off Confidant, re-casting Garza's Assasin or for playing Shriekmaw, and I got sick of not having BB on turn 2 for Hymn or BBB for Gatekeeper or Garza's Assasin.


I didn't like Ritual because it's a one-shot effect. I also cut discard spells because they are one-shot effects, and they are relatively dead lategame. Also, I have Avatar and Stalker as big beaters that come out late to close the game, or if equipment gets answered, which does tend to happen. Vial gets your critters on the table for free, freeing up mana to play or attach equipment, while also preventing them from being countered. I chose Arena because enchantments are harder to answer than Bob and it allows me to run Tombstalker. Although, Wasteland may be better as something else, I also occasionally get frustrated by drawing them as my third land drop.

That's the basic idea though. The deck has millions of ways to kill any/every creature your opponent drops, and all of them are your own creatures. I try not to drop creatures unless it can kill one of theirs, or I have the advantage by dropping a threat.

Edit: Replaced Avatars with Stalker Hag. Evasion is much better than card disadvantage.