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View Full Version : Finals with Elf Combo at PlayTheGame



Q 221
01-01-2011, 05:15 PM
This was my first time taking this list to an event, so I was pleasantly surprised with how it turned out. I've been pretty convinced that the list was solid, but due to school and other things I haven't been able to get in the amount of testing I'd like.

Without any further ado, the list:

ElfChain

17 Forest
4 Priest of Titania
4 Multani's Acolyte
3 Llanowar Empath
1 Brass Herald
1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Fierce Empath
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Food Chain
SB: 1 Myojin of Night's Reach
SB: 4 Joraga Warcaller
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Terastodon
SB: 3 Gaea's Herald
SB: 3 Caller of the Claw


This is a fairly standard take on the Army of Ancients deck that was kicking around N&D a while back. I much prefer it to standard Food Chain combo as it's a lot less reliant on resolving the enchantment, since it has a couple backup plans. The sideboard is terrible, I really didn't know what I had to deal with going in and as a result it's not anywhere near as tuned as I'd like.

Round 1- Dredge
Not my favorite matchup ever, it basically comes down to who can combo out first... and it's usually them. Add in the fact that I didn't have GY hate in the board, and I'm not a happy camper.

Game 1- I get a fast combo off before he can really do anything, and it's on to G2!
Sideboarding: nothing, there's really nothing that can help me enough to consider weakening my combo speed.
Game 2- I take a couple hits, and then combo out, dropping Emrakul and Kozilek together. He uses Bridges to get a blocker for Kozilek (although thinking back, I'm not sure if we did that right since the Annihilator triggers would resolve one after the other) and for a little while I'm concerned that he might be able to combo out on his turn and take me out, but he doesn't have what he needs.

1-0



Round 2- I'm very annoyed at myself because I know I asked this guy's name twice, but managed to forget it since then. He's playing a homebrew mix of New Horizons and Show and Tell.

Game 1- I chip away at his life total a bit with Elves, but then he drops a Progenitus in play with Show and Tell. Unfortunately I don't have anything important to drop with Show and Tell. Progenitus hits twice, and we're done.

Sideboarding- Not sure what I took out, but I remember boarding in Joraga Warcaller. Show and Tell is a very risky proposition for him: if I have an Eldrazi in hand when he casts it, he's pretty bad off. As such, the battle's probably going to come down to straightforward combat, where Warcaller shines.

Game 2- He drops an early Goyf, and I don't have the Food Chain. There's a point where I'm able to use my card-advantage elves to stall both his Goyfs without really losing much, since they replace themselves. I make a stupid play mistake where I drop a reasonably-sized Warcaller and promptly have to chump with it to avoid dying, and I really don't see anything I need to turn the game around.

1-1



Round 3 vs. Adam with Aeon Bridge
Game 1- Neither of us really do much combo-wise, and I eventually beat him down with elves.

Sideboarding- I put in Gaea's Herald to ensure I resolve creatures, and I believe Caller of the Claw, taking out some Multani's Acolytes and Llanowar Empaths. I'm not really sure how fast his deck usually combos off, and since the beatdown path seemed to work last game, I'm going to make it possible to try again.

Game 2- I keep a hand with a scattering of elves and no Food Chain, thinking I can set up a fairly strong board presence. He uses a Thoughtseize to weaken my hand, and quickly sets up Dreadnought-Stifle with a Lim-Dul's Vault. I don't find what I need to combo, and Dreadnought beats me down.

Sideboarding- Took out the Heralds, realizing there wasn't really any creature I'd have a huge problem with him countering. Brought in Warcaller to try and pump a faster beatdown.

Game 3- I keep a hand I should have pitched: it's got a Llanowar Elf and a cantrip elf, but nothing else but lands. An early Thoughtseize weakens it even further, and I'm losing valuable time going land-go. I drop a Fierce Empath and grab Emrakul to neutralize a Show and Tell, but I'm not even close to being able to cast it. Eventually I topdeck and cast a Food Chain, but don't have any card-advantage elves to work with. He then drops an Engineered Plague, taking out the two elves I have on the field and severely weakening my chances of comboing off. I topdeck a Sylvan Messenger, and cast it. It flips another Messenger, and an Archdruid. I pop the Messenger to Food Chain, drop another one. It flips a third Messenger. Third Messenger goes down, finds me another Archdruid, a one-drop Elf, and the fourth Messenger. With all the extra mana from chaining Messengers and the elves I've picked up during, it's relatively easy to combo off into the Emrakul still in my hand. The whole thing was pretty much incredible luck, but sometimes that's all you need.

2-1


Round 4 vs. Zach with Merfolk
I'm glad I got to play this matchup, I had a feeling it was pretty good but it's hard to tell unless you're testing it on the tournament floor.
Game 1- He hits me once with a lord or two, and then he doesn't have the Force for when I combo off. I left a land untapped trying to play around a Daze, and managed to keep that land open for the entire combo. Turns out he did have the Daze, so it was a good call.
Sideboarding- Took out the Empaths and Acolytes again for Warcallers and Callers of the Claw. Didn't know if he was playing the black splash, but Callers don't cost the deck much to run, since they work as Food Chain fodder. And Warcallers are the nuts in the Merfolk matchup.
Game 2- He hit bad hand after bad hand, eventually mulling down to 4. He Forced my initial Food Chain, but couldn't apply much pressure as I set up a fairly powerful Elf board. I eventually topdecked another Food Chain and comboed out.

3-1



Top 4- Geoffery with GW Survival.
Game 1- I was on the play. I went land-go, he dropped a Hierarch. I dropped a Priest of Titania, he dropped another Hierarch, a Birds, and hit for 2. I dropped a Food Chain and comboed out. I made a stupid play by not tapping the Priest for mana before popping it for Food Chain, but I had a hand strong enough that it didn't matter.

Sideboarding- I boarded out Acolytes and Empaths again, I think bringing in Callers. I saw almost none of his deck, so I was trying to decide whether he was playing Rock or a variation on PRO Bant.

Game 2- He dropped another Hierarch, I dropped an Elf. He dropped a Birds and hit me with Hierarch, I dropped Food Chain and comboed out. I think I played around Daze again, despite the fact that I don't think he had two mana up, and I'm pretty sure he didn't have an Island.

4-1


Finals: Split with the guy from Round 2.

A pretty good start, although I really need to figure out where my sideboard's going. It's tricky to build for this deck because you run into the problem Goblins has: running non-Goblin cards is a very risky proposition, as it reduces the power of Messenger. I did notice I've been greatly overestimating how often Food Chain gets dealt with: every time it resolved, I won the game. I've been expecting it to get dealt with a lot more often, so I've been expecting my backup plans to have to be used much more often than they are.

RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
01-02-2011, 10:31 AM
Congrats :) great read.

4eak
01-02-2011, 12:50 PM
Congratz. Nice report. I'm not saying you were an underdog, but it is always fun to see Elves (in any form) do well in Legacy. It reminds me how much I like this format.


peace,
4eak

Pastorofmuppets
01-02-2011, 01:53 PM
It's good to know I was right about Myojin in here.
Congratulations!
Also, 1000 posts, etc.

jrw1985
01-04-2011, 03:27 PM
This deck looks ridiculously fun.

jrw1985
01-04-2011, 09:03 PM
Seriously, I just ordered a playset of Food Chains off Ebay. I think I'll run Regal force instead of Myojin and I am also thinking of fitting in a few Wirewood Hivemasters. Getting extra creatures to exile to Food Chain might be awesome. I'm really looking forward to start testing.

Atwa
01-05-2011, 12:30 AM
No love for Deranged Hermit? That card is totally crazy with Food Chain, it gives you blockers against Aggro and you can use it for a quick beatdown.

Fuzzy
01-05-2011, 10:23 AM
No love for Bloodbraid Elf?

jrw1985
01-05-2011, 02:26 PM
No love for Bloodbraid Elf?

The Oracle text on Food Chain says you can only add mana of any ONE color, so playing multicolored creatures becomes problematic. Otherwise BB would be awesome in this deck.

jrw1985
01-05-2011, 02:37 PM
Note to self:

Skyshroud Sentinel
Masked Admirers

Koby
01-05-2011, 02:41 PM
Getting to 15 mana isn't entirely difficult.

Getting a Fierce Empath or a way to draw Emrakul is however.

Q 221
01-05-2011, 05:33 PM
No love for Deranged Hermit? That card is totally crazy with Food Chain, it gives you blockers against Aggro and you can use it for a quick beatdown.

I haven't personally tested it, but I agree with the rationale of the deck's designer: if you've already got five mana and a Food Chain down, you basically want to be chaining card-advantage elves. Jumping from 5 to 10 mana is nice, but it only helps at a very specific point in the combo, a point where the deck usually doesn't have much trouble due to all the elves that replace themselves.


Seriously, I just ordered a playset of Food Chains off Ebay. I think I'll run Regal force instead of Myojin and I am also thinking of fitting in a few Wirewood Hivemasters. Getting extra creatures to exile to Food Chain might be awesome. I'm really looking forward to start testing.

While the Hivemaster plan does actually sound kind of awesome, I'm not convinced he's going to be worth taking out other stuff. It's the same situation as the Hermit: the deck needs cards, not mana. Every Elf is a Pyretic Ritual in addition to its CIP effect once you've got Food Chain down, and the idea is to have redundancy by making everything draw into more things. If you started cutting cantrip elves for stuff like Hivemaster, the deck would have a harder time comboing off an early Food Chain.

As far as Regal Force goes, keep in mind that the deck rarely has a lot of creatures in play. Myojin generally draws me at most 6-7 cards: I've considered replacing it with another Kozilek, but he more or less guarantees four cards (two Forests, himself, Food Chain) and only goes up from there. Regal Force probably wouldn't give you more than 2-3 cards tops, unless you're drawing it after you've already burned through a couple Messengers and have a hand absolutely loaded with Elves: in other words, when you've won the game.



Note to self:

Skyshroud Sentinel
Masked Admirers


I'm not convinced Masked Admirers is better than any other card-advantage elf in the deck: you won't be able to recur it, and it costs more, meaning it hurts the T2 combo off a Food Chain.

Skyshroud Sentinel is kind of clever, though, thinning your deck and generating a decent amount of mana. The problem is that it does nothing for you outside of a Food Chain, whereas cantrip elves can at least start giving you extra cards for a Food Chain or Eldrazi.




Getting to 15 mana isn't entirely difficult.

Getting a Fierce Empath or a way to draw Emrakul is however.


In my testing, it hasn't been that problematic. Llanowar Empath, Multani's Acolyte, Myojin, and Elvish Visionary all have at least a chance of flipping an Eldrazi into your hand, and between Brass Herald, Sylvan Messenger, and the aforementioned cards I usually see a Fierce Empath or two. Depending on what you're playing against, flipping a Kozilek or just a boatload of elves into play may be an option, too.

Infinitium
01-05-2011, 06:14 PM
I don't really see the advantage of Myojin/Kozilek over more Brass heralds (or even better Wirewood Symbiote) if you want to draw more cards since the later are at least nominally hardcastable when you're up against disruption and need to go for the manplan. Symbiote especially rapidly gets out of hand when you have another draw elf on the table (and untaps you mana elves for the bonus) and protects your other drops. I wouldn't play any Elf deck without it.

Q 221
01-05-2011, 10:17 PM
I don't really see the advantage of Myojin/Kozilek over more Brass heralds (or even better Wirewood Symbiote) if you want to draw more cards since the later are at least nominally hardcastable when you're up against disruption and need to go for the manplan. Symbiote especially rapidly gets out of hand when you have another draw elf on the table (and untaps you mana elves for the bonus) and protects your other drops. I wouldn't play any Elf deck without it.

First of all, realize Myojin and Kozilek are one-ofs, so the number of times I actually have them in my hand when I don't want them are minimal.

Second, the deck runs 17 lands: if I'm getting up in the 6+ mana range without Food Chain, it'll be with Priests/Archdruids, and 10 mana probably isn't that far off. If I'm going to be dropping something off Priests, I'd rather have something that wins the game if not answered (i.e. Kozilek) than something that just chumps a Goyf or draws me into a few more cantrip elves.

Both Kozilek and Myojin have advantages over Brass Herald at times: both can give you Emrakul or extra Food Chains off their draws, and Kozilek is a nasty threat on his own while Myojin usually nets you a card or two extra. I much prefer having access to any of them with a Fierce Empath, because there are times when other threats just don't cut it.

As I mentioned before, thought, I am considering another Kozilek in place of the Myojin, since I'm not sure how often those extra couple cards win me the game. I'll be counting how often what I drew off a Myojin vs. a Kozilek won me a game versus how often I wish the Myojin was another Kozilek next time I play the deck.

As for Symbiote: if it was an elf, I'd run it in a heartbeat. As it is, though, it's a dead flip off a Herald or a Messenger, and while it does get nuts with Messenger/cantrip elf outside of the main combo, if they're playing disruption there's really nothing stopping them from just killing the Symbiote. The nice part about playing so many cantrip elves is that non-counter removal isn't too effective anyway: sure, they can Bolt/Swords/Path my guys, but a lot of them already replaced themselves. It's something I've considered, though: it was in the sideboard at one point and might be again.

I can't really see running it maindeck though, and it's definitely not a replacement for the fatties. It's not tutorable with Empath, it's a net loss of mana during a Food Chain combo unless you happen to have a few elves and Priest/Archdruid sitting around (read: pretty much already won), and it actually requires you to have a Messenger to net any real card advantage. Myojin/Kozilek reload your hand mid-combo when you just need a few more to get Emrakul, and Kozilek serves double-duty when Annihilator 6 and 15 damage aren't enough to guarantee a win.

jrw1985
01-21-2011, 02:07 AM
So I put this deck together and went 2-2 with it at tonight's tournament. I definitely could have played it better. E Plague took me out 1 game after I wasted K Grip the turn before on his Counterbalance when he had no Top in play. Dumb.

R1
I beat Staxx 2-0. Trinisphere T1G1 didn't even slow even matter. The Elves were high enough in casting cost anyway that Trinisphere didn't matter, so i ramped into Emrakul. I sided in Gaea's Harolds and K Grips. Same thing the next game, only I played a Gaea's Harold before chaining off, since he had Chalices. He T1 Trinisphere, T2 Chailce for 2. I T3 K gripped the Chalice then played Gaea's Harold then won easily.

R2
1-2 against Counterbalance. I got locked out G1, Comboed out G2, and G3 ended before it began when I KGripped his Counterbalance only to see him play an E Plague the very next turn. D'oh!

R3
2-1 againt a R/B tempo deck with Vials and Mesmeric Fiends and Ball Lightnings. I comboed G1, almost won with beatdown G2 (which was very difficult for me), and comboed out again G3.

R4
Lost against AggroLoam, 0-2. I kept a pretty weak hand G1, and paid for it with a loss. It's just hard to win when you try to out aggro an aggro deck. It wasn't pretty. G2 I was planning to combo off when my opponent preemptively cast Pithing Needle, calling Food Chain. I then proceeded to do nothing until I was a turn from losing and his buddy looks at the board and says, "What's Pithing Needle calling?" "Food Chain." "Can you DO that?" Then I remembered that Pithing Needle doesn't stop mana abilities. My opponent made a huge mistake when he sided in Needle, and I made a huge mistake when I went right along and didn't bother playing my Food Chain despite the fact that I still could have used it. I didn't bother to pause and think about what Needle actually did. It probably didn't help that his card was foreign to boot, so i couldn't get the visual reminder when he played it. I punted so hard, and lost out to a misplay on his part that became a fucking Jedi mind trick on my end.

Anywho, after playing with the deck my thoughts were...

- The aggro plan is absolutely horrendous. Food chaining into a Joraga Warcaller sucks. You play him with a couple of counters and you're left with no elves to get the bonus from him. Just awful in a field with so much spot removal.

- Elves not having haste sucks. I want SO badly to find a way to make this concept work with Glimpse of Nature so there were actually 2 card generating engines, but I don't think they can be mixed.

- I wonder if the Tribal concept is really necessary. Wouldn't the deck be a lot less susceptible to E Plague and Perish if it didn't rely on a creature base of elves? But can the concept of such a creature heavy deck be playable without a tribal theme?

- I want Fetchlands. Hitting lands with Brass herald and Silvan Messenger was infuriating. The deck could easily support 4-8 fetches, i think.