[Article]: Stifle and Wasteland

[Odd Mutation]

Hi all,

I thought this was an interesting and valuable read, worthy of some discussion:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/20836_Stifle_and_Wasteland.html

A lot of people have been saying:"You don't know how to build decks anymore! You are unaware of the basic principles of deckbuilding!" What they fail to do in my opinion is then to share their infinite wisdom with the rest of us. Drew Levin at least lifts the veil a bit and shares some reflections on the evolution of Stifle/Wasteland in the format. It's about having a battle plan and how to implement it. Notice a metagame trend and exploit it, then recognize how to evolve it.

If more people would share parts of the deckbuilding concept (better), maybe more of us could use that and start creating... and winning!

Robrecht

[Nessaja]

I agree, very good article. Gave some information about the evolution of threshold when I wasn't playing Legacy yet. And overall a good discription of the metagame evolution.

I believe, however - that Canadian Threshold outlasted Team America which was only a good (top) deck for a month or so, only to fall off the radar after that. Canadian Threshold stayed good much longer.
I also see no mention of Ubg Threshold and Dark Horizons which seems like a stronger choice then New Horizons right now.

[GGoober]

A lot of people have been saying:"You don't know how to build decks anymore! You are unaware of the basic principles of deckbuilding!" What they fail to do in my opinion is then to share their infinite wisdom with the rest of us.

This I agree entirely. Quite tired of cryptic posts that specify "No one knows tempo anymore", "This deck is bad, you guys are sticking to traditions".

And without any pressure for evidence, this never arise. I think Canadian Thresh is as viable as ever. It only shines against a number of decks due to it's 'Assassin'-nature. If a mono-colored, for example, its strength becomes weaker. These decks running Wastelands/Stifles succeed because they know bulk of the time, their strategy would work against most decks in Legacy.

[jazzykat]

I really enjoyed the article. It left me asking: "What's next?".

[Kirika]

Great article.

I have to agree that Dark Horizons seems to be better with the power of Bob and Duress effects. An unanswered Bob is often game winning.

One thing the article did not mention is the interaction of Stifle with Dreadnought which supports two archtypes Dreadstill and aggro stifle nought. Dreadnought gives you something to do with Stifle if there are no fetch lands to stifle or your opponent has enough mana out. Dreadnought although vulnerable can end the game in 2 swings if your opponent does not have an answer or if you can protect it.

I been running UBw dreadstill for quite some time and the sheer number of options it has is great. Counters, excelent card draw, mana denial and removal.

[Gui]

Pretty good article! Nice reference to Threshold... Good times... ^^

[Finn]

Those decks have all the same frailties that they hope to exploit around them. Canadian Threshold and Team America are going to have a hard time competing as long as Merfolk is strong. Merfolk is one of the biggest reasons those decks are not popular anymore. It does what they do right back to them, and is largely resistant to that same kind of disruption. Horizons is a deck that prays the opponent has never heard of it.

Oh, it may do well for awhile. I hear mouthpieces extolling the virtues of the 3-color tempo deck du jour every so often. But with players coming in and out of this game so rapidly, how many people really have perspective to make such claims, really? These decks come in and out of fashion. In this case, with no fliers, no basics, and a 2 packs-a-day grave yard habit, you can pick your favorite weakness and exploit it. With such gaping holes in its gameplan, this deck's popularity is owed as much to the fact that it came out of the NE United States as anything else.

Want to make a perennial winner? Come up with a solid plan in one color and splash only as an option. Decks with fewer colors and solid landbases are not as flashy, but tend to last a lot longer despite a weaker cardpool. A big reason why many-color decks come and go is because they are farting around with their thin-assed mana base as soon as the opponent throws anything at it. Best way to beat anything that smells like Threshold: make their Tops, Brainstorms, and Ponders look for land instead of answers or threats.

I do not know Mr. Levin, but it all sounds so familiar.

[Mana Drain]

Great article, and a good mini-history lesson of Legacy for people who never played against Tempo Thresh (UGr Threshold, whatever). I remember raging so many times to Mongoose backed up by multiple Dazes and Stifles on EE. To think, now he's almost irrelevant until late-game. How times change.

[Hanni]

He was a little off in his analysis about UGr Tempo Thresh, which didn't actually make a big splash on the scene until after Tarmogoyf got printed, but never-the-less, solid article.


Want to make a perennial winner? Come up with a solid plan in one color and splash only as an option. Decks with fewer colors and solid landbases are not as flashy, but tend to last a lot longer despite a weaker cardpool. A big reason why many-color decks come and go is because they are farting around with their thin-assed mana base as soon as the opponent throws anything at it. Best way to beat anything that smells like Threshold: make their Tops, Brainstorms, and Ponders look for land instead of answers or threats.


I disagree. The reason why Merfolk has and continues to perform much better than other 3-color "tempo" decks has nothing to do with being mono-colored vs multi-colored; it's not a manabase issue. The reason why Merfolk is a better deck, at least a better tempo deck, lies in its entire deck construction.

Tempo Thresh and Team America ran 8-9 threats, New Horizon's runs 10-11 threats. Those decks have plenty of ways to disrupt and slow down it's opponent's development, but no way to accelerate its own. Sure, you gain alot of tempo when you Stifle the opponent's fetchland, but if you're using that gained "tempo" by cantripping to find a creature, you're wasting it.

Likewise, in the case of New Horizons, Knight of the Reliquary costs 3 mana; sure, you may gain some tempo by Stifle'ing a turn 1 fetch, but the soonest you can gain any advantage from that (developing your own board position) is turn 3, often not until later because of Daze and Wasteland. In fact, Daze and Wasteland often set the New Horizon's player back in tempo even more than they set back their opponent.

With Merfolk, it can still slow the opponent's development down with Daze/Force/Pierce/Wasteland, but it also has the ability to accelerate its own development with Aether Vial. Merfolk also runs a large enough threat density to ensure that it gets a guy or guys on the board early enough to capitalize on the tempo it generates. Aether Vial itself allows Merfolk to use Daze/Wasteland without setting itself back. Of course, Merfolk is also built to get full value out of Vial, by running a large enough threat density and a beautiful curve.

While manabase stability may be another strong aspect of deck construction for Merfolk, that's not why it's tempo gameplan is so much better than other tempo decks. In fact, I'd argue that relying on 13 Islands to cast its UU spells, still leaves it with a shaky manabase when it doesn't hit Vial (and of course, this gets weaker for splash variations of Merfolk, like Saito's build).

If you take Merfolk's shell and cut the Merfolk for Bant creatures, you end up with a deck that still has Merfolk's amazing tempo, but has a much better creature base. This is something I've only recently discovered, and have been playtesting with. I'm suprised that no one else has thought of the idea and put it into motion. The deck beats Merfolk's bad matchups (Zoo/Goblins), and still beats Merfolk's good matchups (Control/Combo). However, I'll leave it at that, since I have a thread in N&D to discuss that deck (U/G/W Vial Bant (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19622-U-G-W-Vial-Bant)).

[4eak]

In addition to Hanni's UGW Vial Bant (or his BG Vengevine deck from last month), I also think we shouldn't forget to consider UW Tempo.

As to the actual article, I thought it was rather good. It is one that everyone new to the format should read. It isn't perfect (and what article is?). I think it mapped out an important era in Legacy.



peace,
4eak