[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Zirath]

With the printing of Smuggler's Copter, I really want to get back into this deck. I'd like to start here:

8 Mountains
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Hanweir Garrison
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Pia Nalaar
3 Scab-Clan Berserker

3 Smuggler's Copter

4 Magma Jet

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

I haven't started testing yet but does anyone have any opinions or advice that would help direct me?

[Koby]

I too played at Eternal Weekend's Legacy main event, using this list:

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

3 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Gobblin Rabblemaster
3 Hanweir Garrison
4 Thunderbreak Regent

2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
4 Magma Jet

SB:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Anarchy
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Phyrexian Revoker

I went 3-2, then dropped since I did not care about non-T8.

Round 1 - Elves (2-1)
Round 2 - D&T splashing Blue (0-2)
Round 3 - Infect (2-1)
Round 4 - D&T (2-1)
Round 5 - D&T (1-2)

Stoneforge Mystic continues to be a huge thorn on my side. I can deal with all other creatures they have, but Jitte/Batterskull/Sword of Pro:Red are just tough as nails to beat. I should have played a 2nd Fiery Confluence in the sideboard. I don't know what else I can cut.

[Zirath]

Stoneforge Mystic continues to be a huge thorn on my side. I can deal with all other creatures they have, but Jitte/Batterskull/Sword of Pro:Red are just tough as nails to beat. I should have played a 2nd Fiery Confluence in the sideboard. I don't know what else I can cut.

The only logical cut is a Crypt or a Bridge. I'm guessing Crypt is worse than Bridge however.

You could also try Unforge as well. It's very narrow and only makes sense in a metagame with tons of DnT/Stoneblade.

[L10]

I'd consider upping Fiery Confluence to three copies. It's a blowout vs. DnT. I'd cut an Anarchy for sure, because FC usually kills all creatures (minus mom protection, Serra Avenger, Brimaz) and one/two artifacts along the way, and has the same CMC. I'd also probably cut Sulfur Elemental or Pyrokinesis for the third copy.

[Ace/Homebrew]

jancz, what did you think of Pia Nalaar? Do you have any anecdotes from the tournament involving her?

koby, how do you sideboard against D&T with that list?
You have 12 cards in your sideboard that *could* come in... (everything but the Crypts)

I think your best option against D&T is to hide behind a bridge and ultimate your walkers.
I cut Rabblemasters against D&T because swinging into a Batterskull every turn sucks.

What did you think of Hanweir Garrison? and why did you opt for a playset of Regents, but only 3 Garrison?

[Octopusman]

I'm having a hard time vs. BR Reanimator. Best I've found so far is Faerie Macabre x 2 in the board but it's still weak. Chancellor of Annex shuts off other grave hate.

Ace - I noticed 2 Settlers... Can you talk about that a little bit why it got bumped up and how it's been working? I've been toying with the idea of going back to Stone Rain.
Did you stop testing Cruiser? Seems good on paper but you mentioned that you thought it was underwhelming.

[amppyou]

I'm having a hard time vs. BR Reanimator. Best I've found so far is Faerie Macabre x 2 in the board but it's still weak. Chancellor of Annex shuts off other grave hate.

Ace - I noticed 2 Settlers... Can you talk about that a little bit why it got bumped up and how it's been working? I've been toying with the idea of going back to Stone Rain.
Did you stop testing Cruiser? Seems good on paper but you mentioned that you thought it was underwhelming.



I went 7-2-0 today at EE5 in Baltimore, MD!
That was good enough to place 14th out of the 277 in attendance.

I wanted to give Pia and the Copter a try. But mostly I wanted to play Goblin Settler.
My biggest concern with traditional Moggcatcher lists is how high the curve is. Kiki-Jiki is great when you find him with Moggcatcher, but otherwise he is pretty awful... The SGC in the board was a last second audible and replaced the 3rd Faerie Macabre. Neither card really ended up mattering this tournament.

Pia Nalaar is the real deal! Smuggler's Copter is good, but I boarded it out almost every game... More testing required, I'm not sure my build is one where it can truly shine.

I'm looking to pick up a second settler right now myself.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm on a casual kick and haven't played Legacy in a few weeks. I've been waiting on my pre-ordered C16 stuff.

I ordered play sets of Ash Barrens and Frenzied Fugue. I am probably deluded but I have high hopes that 4x Ash Barrens 1x Wastes will open up cards like Thought-Knot Seer to us. Again, I am probably deluded.

I was happy with my Moggcatcher package. It was a small enough package with high CMC cards that it was easy to cut them for anti-combo matches that might be decided in a turn or two. Otherwise back-to-back Settlers or SGC => Rabble did what was needed. Against Stoneforge/Batterskull decks I cut 3 Rabbles and hide behind Bridge, throwing goblins at my opponent.

I chose two Settlers because one might get exiled to Mox, but mostly because I want to be able to nuke both Plains against Miracles without having to rely on Kiki-Jiki (who is both difficult to cast and terrible on his own).

Cruiser and Copter are still being tested... I think the ideal number of Cruisers will be 1, but I'm still looking for the optimal list for it.

Don't forget that Simian Spirit Guide negates Chancellor. That isn't very helpful... But it's all I got for now. I haven't run into B/R Reanimator since it picked up in popularity and the lists have been optimized.

[ZTurgeon]

I'm having a hard time vs. BR Reanimator. Best I've found so far is Faerie Macabre x 2 in the board but it's still weak. Chancellor of Annex shuts off other grave hate.

Ace - I noticed 2 Settlers... Can you talk about that a little bit why it got bumped up and how it's been working? I've been toying with the idea of going back to Stone Rain.
Did you stop testing Cruiser? Seems good on paper but you mentioned that you thought it was underwhelming.

B/R Reanimator is entirely about the dice roll, or who can break serve when the other one fails to do something on turn 1. I know after board I almost never keep a hand that can't turn 1 a Trinisphere, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Chalice, Ensnaring Bridge, Moggcatcher or has one of my Faerie Macabres. If you can do those and still drop a chalice on 0, do that as well. Bring in null rods if you have them.

You can't afford to lose the games when you are on the play and any time you see a chance to steal a draw game with a high risk play, take it. Keeping that one lander with Faerie Macabre or Leyline of the Void is fine. They need unmask to stop that. If they are thoughseizing you intstead of themselves on turn 1, then you have a shot of grabbing that land and slamming the hate and maybe escaping.

Additionally Chalice 1&2 end the game so even if you have two cities or something completely non-optimal, getting a chalice on 1 and 2 more or less ends the game (some have sideboard sneak attacks).

[zangoasyl]

B/R Reanimator is entirely about the dice roll, or who can break serve when the other one fails to do something on turn 1. I know after board I almost never keep a hand that can't turn 1 a Trinisphere, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Chalice, Ensnaring Bridge, Moggcatcher or has one of my Faerie Macabres. If you can do those and still drop a chalice on 0, do that as well. Bring in null rods if you have them.

You can't afford to lose the games when you are on the play and any time you see a chance to steal a draw game with a high risk play, take it. Keeping that one lander with Faerie Macabre or Leyline of the Void is fine. They need unmask to stop that. If they are thoughseizing you intstead of themselves on turn 1, then you have a shot of grabbing that land and slamming the hate and maybe escaping.

Additionally Chalice 1&2 end the game so even if you have two cities or something completely non-optimal, getting a chalice on 1 and 2 more or less ends the game (some have sideboard sneak attacks).
And exactly how many sb slots are you packing for reanimator? Sounds like something close to 15 ;-)

[ZTurgeon]

And exactly how many sb slots are you packing for reanimator? Sounds like something close to 15 ;-)

My current Sideboard is

4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Tuk Tuk Scrapper
2 Null Rod
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokenesis

So I bring in 9 cards, but it doesnt matter much because you can straight up cut cards that interact poorly with them because both decks are so linear. So I really only have 3 card FOR them, but they also get hit with my more generic splash hate.

[Wilkin]

Played at my local FNM Legacy with Dragon Stompy. 3-1.

4 blood moon
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Phyrexian Revoker

3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
3 Chrome Mox
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Fiery Confluence

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
14 Mountains

Board.
1 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sudden Shock
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Round 1. Burn. win 2-1
He wins game 1 rather easily. I've played him before but forgot he was burn. So I didn't have Chalice, so it gave the appearance that my deck could have been painter. Game 2 and 3 Chalice shows up. I barely win game 3....I have Chalice at 1 and 2 and I'm at 5 life. Luckily I didn't go any lower since he shows me a Fireblast.
Game 3 was memorable for me. I have a Koth in play with 3 mountains and an Ancient Tomb. I didn't want to use Tomb anymore so I tapped the 3 mountains for mana. I then untapped a mountain so I had 4 to cast Chandra. And with Chandra's +1 RR ability I cast a Chalice of the Void for 1 (which I drew that turn). I eventually Koth Ulitmate to ping my opponent to death.

Round 2. Eldrazi Win. 2-0
I scouted so I knew what he was on. My starting 7 had a Chalice on turn 1 opener but luckily I knew that was not gonna do anything. My 6 had a Turn 1 Blood moon via Chrome Mox, Mountain and a Spirit Guide. KEEP. I draw a bunch of non-mana sources so I got knocked down to as low as 2 from Eldrazi Mimics and his Simian Spirit Guide. I eventually establish 3 ensnaring Bridges with Koth and Chandra. Koth and Chandra, again allowed me to empty my hand and cast the other 2 bridges in the same turn.
Game 2. I think I established Kiki-jiki plus Goblin Settler lock.

Round 3. Miracles lose. 2-0
Blood moon doesn't do as much when he has double Island. Boo. PLus I'm an idiot and attack with Shusher into blue Amush Viper (aka Snapcaster).
Game 2, I knock him down to 3 with the help of Scab-Clan Berserker but he topdecks Terminus to get rid of the creature, otherwise he would have been dead the next turn.

Round 4. Elves. win 2-1
Game 1. He's on the play and I get Hoofed.
Game 2. Fiery Confluence and Kozilek's return later on sealed the deal
Game 3. More mass removal. I ulitmate Chandra and then killed him with a Fiery Confluence.

Notes:
-I really like the Berserker, I may try and fit it in main.
-Eldrazi was an easy matchup with 4 Moon and 4 Bridges
-Miracles matchup still seems a bit rough. Maybe I need Boil in there somewhere.
-Fiery Confluence is awesome. It can be a mini board wipe, direct damage and artifact removal all in one. Was great vs Elves and even ok vs Eldrazi (I killed a Jitte and dealt 4 damage to opponent).
-Mana Curve may be a bit high. A few games I was stuck, not being able to cast anything.
-Being able to ulitmate with both Walkers felt great. And the mana ramping was very relevant, allowing me to empty my hand so Bridge could work.
-Tuktuk Scrapper may be a bit redundant with 2 Fiery Confluence. Although being able to tutor for it is nice.

[tron]

Just curious if anyone has tried Vaultbreaker? It's sort of janky, but I've been testing it as an alternative to Smuggler's Copter.
Dash makes Vaultbreaker come down with haste and can surprise people taking out Planeswalkers.

Pros:
Red spell, can pitch to Chrome Mox
Can be a threat on it's own (vs equipment/vehicles)
Can be played for 2R mana via Dash and no double-red and has haste
Cycles cards in hand when attacking

Cons:
No Flying
Without Dashing, it's a 4 mana spell that is not really a big body with only 2 toughness.
Doesn't cycle if you're blocking
Dash can be mana intensive

[Wilkin]

Just curious if anyone has tried Vaultbreaker? It's sort of janky, but I've been testing it as an alternative to Smuggler's Copter.
Dash makes Vaultbreaker come down with haste and can surprise people taking out Planeswalkers.

Pros:
Red spell, can pitch to Chrome Mox
Can be a threat on it's own (vs equipment/vehicles)
Can be played for 2R mana via Dash and no double-red and has haste
Cycles cards in hand when attacking

Cons:
No Flying
Without Dashing, it's a 4 mana spell that is not really a big body with only 2 toughness.
Doesn't cycle if you're blocking
Dash can be mana intensive


For me no. My version runs 4 bridges main so if I'm attacking, it's with smaller dudes. I'm not saying the card is bad at all. It just doesn't fit in my deck because of the build.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Interesting list got posted to TC Decks. It got 9th of 169. It's the first time I've seen hellbent creatures in a while...

Creatures [21]
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Hanweir Garrison
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Enchantments [4]
4 Blood Moon

Planeswalkers [3]
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Artifacts [14]
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere

Lands [18]
1 Hanweir Battlements
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain

Sideboard [15]
1 Wild Ricochet
2 Sudden Shock
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Boil
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Shattering Spree

Source (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21567&iddeck=165522)
Based on the player names, I'm assuming the tournament occurred in Europe (probably Spain or Italy).

First impressions are that it is short on red non-artifacts (I count 24) and the curve is high considering only 26 mana sources. Still, results are results and the top 16 is full of competitive decks. I'm just happy to see Gathan Raiders. :laugh:

[Gheizen64]

Testing this list and liking it a lot right now:


4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Pia Nalaar
4 Thopter Engineer
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Arcbound Ravager

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
3 Simian Spirit Guide

SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Boil
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 4 Goblin Rabblemaster
SB: 4 Sulfur Elemental


Lots of little nice interactions with Pia, Thopter engineer and Hangarback+Ravager, cavern to push most humans out vs cb, lower mana count due to nothing costing more than 3 and smuggler copter smoothing draws and giving pseudo-haste to all our tokens generator, multiple way to cycle multiple moxens with pia/ravager/copter etc... A couple of great furnaces over 2 mountains could be worth it for extra damage and shit since they still are artifacts under blood moon.

Revoker is also pretty good right now. Name Top vs miracles, vial vs D&T, LED/Petal vs storm, Grizzly vs reanimator, DRS vs all the BG based decks etc... and with almost everything in your deck demanding removal on it (almost everything has a side effect/mana sink ability to let them grow over time), it's sometimes a bit hard for your opponent to answer everything, especially vs 8 moons and 4 cotv.

[Blastoderm]

Interesting list got posted to TC Decks. It got 9th of 169. It's the first time I've seen hellbent creatures in a while...

Creatures [21]
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Hanweir Garrison
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Enchantments [4]
4 Blood Moon

Planeswalkers [3]
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Artifacts [14]
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere

Lands [18]
1 Hanweir Battlements
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain

Sideboard [15]
1 Wild Ricochet
2 Sudden Shock
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Boil
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Shattering Spree

Source (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21567&iddeck=165522)
Based on the player names, I'm assuming the tournament occurred in Europe (probably Spain or Italy).

First impressions are that it is short on red non-artifacts (I count 24) and the curve is high considering only 26 mana sources. Still, results are results and the top 16 is full of competitive decks. I'm just happy to see Gathan Raiders. :laugh:

You can win with grey ogre if you lock your opponent :P
I think the point of moving away from these creatures is that they are bad if your lock pieces don't work or are removed. I do find it funny though that he can meld battlements!

[entreri_fans]

It seems we have a player who finished 9-0 day 1 in GP Chiba:tongue:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpchi16/9-0-players-2016-11-26

But still needs to wait until round 15 to see the decklist:frown:

[korstructure]

It seems we have a player who finished 9-0 day 1 in GP Chiba:tongue:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpchi16/9-0-players-2016-11-26

But still needs to wait until round 15 to see the decklist:frown:

First deck listed in this link: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpchi16/day-1-undefeated-decklists-2016-11-27

Thunderbreaks, 4x MD Fiery Confluence, 4x MD Sin Prodder, 3x Chandra, Torch, 4x Magus of the Moon.

Also, no Ensnaring Bridge. Though 1 Frenzied Fugue SB.

Cool list! I'm going to build this exact one and see what's up. I like the idea of MD Fiery.

Your guys' thoughts? I haven't been involved in this conversation. Was Sin Prodder tested already? What were the conclusions? Looks like this guy agrees with Koby on Thunderbreaks, at least.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Out of 2503 decks, two Dragon Stompy decks placed high enough for us to see their decklists!
Looks like a total of 5 players using Dragon Stompy made day 2. :laugh:

TAKAHIRO IKEDA'S DRAGON STOMPY - 37TH

Planeswalker (3)
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Creature (20)
3 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Shaman of the Great Hunt
3 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Sorcery (4)
4 Fiery Confluence

Instant (1)
1 Magma Jet

Artifact (10)
2 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon

Land (18)
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
60 Cards

Sideboard (15)
1 Frenzied Fugue
1 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Shattering Pulse
2 Pyroblast
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sudden Demise
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Chandra, Pyromaster



TAISHI AOKI'S DRAGON STOMPY - 39TH

Planeswalker (3)
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Creature (20)
3 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Sorcery (4)
4 Fiery Confluence

Instant (1)
1 Sudden Shock

Artifact (11)
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

Enchantment (3)
3 Blood Moon

Land (18)
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
60 Cards

Sideboard (15)
1 Frenzied Fugue
1 Sudden Shock
1 Shattering Pulse
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sudden Demise
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

The lists are very similar...
Takahiro opted for 2 Shaman of the Great Hunt (over a Sin Prodder and Thundermaw Hellkite).
He also chose Magma Jet over Sudden Shock and a 3rd Trinisphere over a 4th Blood Moon.

Sideboard differences are minor as well.

1 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Pyroblast

*versus*

1 Sudden Shock
2 Koth of the Hammer

[CptHaddock]

4 fiery confluence eh? These guys sure didn't want to lose to D&T.

[Zirath]

This is very exciting. It's also interesting how different their lists are to what we have been working on.

However, I'm not a huge fan of Shaman of the Great Hunt. It seems most powerful against combo decks, where we are more advantaged generally. In the fair match ups, our creatures aren't connecting unless we set up a lock.

[L10]

So the decks are set up like this:

Mana (26)
10 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Locks (14)
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3-4 Blood Moon
2-3 Trinisphere

Threats (12)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3-4 Sin Prodder
3 Thunderbreak Regent
0-2 Shaman of the Great Hunt
0-1 Thundermaw Hellkite

Removal || To the Face (8)
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Magma Jet || Sudden Shock

Sideboard
0-1 Scab-Clan Berserker
0-1 Sudden Shock
0-2 Koth of the Hammer
0-2 Pyroblast
1 Frenzied Fugue
1 Shattering Pulse
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Sudden Demise
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

I practice, Shaman of the Great Hunt has been stellar vs. Shardless, Miracles, and Delver, but weak against DnT. However, with so many removal spells, I can see it work. I want try a 1/1 split between Shaman and Hellkite.

[AceOfJacks]

First of all, I do not consider myself an authority or an expert in any form, however, I have a few opinions.

Of course there is no perfect deck. Every match relies a combination of luck, skill, and card selection. While I cannot deal with the skill or luck departments in this particular rant, I can state my opinion regarding the card selections for the above stated decks.

Shaman of the Great Hunt seems "high risk, high reward." 4 mana, 2 toughness, no evasion. Dies to any 2 power blocker, and DiceGods forbid they have first strike!

Also, I find the abundance of 4 drops, especially with RR in mana costs, very difficult to maintain with 18 lands. 8 Blood Moon effects will guard against Wastelands, but it is also a double edged sword. Shutting off double lands, missing land drops after using a Spirit Guide, in addition to the lower land count, seems very risky. You might land a Thunderbreak or a Chandra, but a lot of removal spells from your opponent, combined with you throwing only one haymaker out there by losing your City of Traitors or using that SSG, means that unless you can maintain 4 mana on the table, you might just lock yourself out of the game.

Why is there only 1 Scab-Clan Berserker in that sideboard? Assuming the only real "card draw" is Sin Prodder and Chandra, it seems very strange to have 1x Magma Jet, 1x Scab-Clan, 1x Sudden Shock, etc. We don't have the ability to Brainstorm, Scroll Rack, Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library, or "find the right answer at the right time" in a deck like this. We NEED CONSISTENCY, not 1x copies of cards that are gone once they've been cast or exiled.

Lastly, there are a lot of good matchups based on the card selection, such as non-red dual land decks, decks that rely on 1 mana spells, decks that do not have a high density of creatures, etc. However, there are a LOT of "inexpensive" decks out there, that give us some trouble. Mono colored decks can be a pain. DnT and Merfolk are both inexpensive to build, when compared to a lot of the "popular" decks out there. Eldrazi, if they get the right draw, does NOT care about Blood Moon. I found this out the hard way ON CAMERA at EE5. Any deck that has the right removal spells can potentially work around Blood Moon effects, and even kill them, and then continue unhindered.

If anything/everything I've said is completely off-base, then please enlighten me. I am 1000000% willing to learn from my mistakes and the experience of others. Thanks.

[Zirath]

If anything/everything I've said is completely off-base, then please enlighten me. I am 1000000% willing to learn from my mistakes and the experience of others. Thanks.

I don't think you're wrong but we have limited slots. To make room for Jet/Shock, we need to cut Confluence. The same issue comes in consideration for the board. I'm not sure why they wanted so much variety in cards but Japan also has a different metagame (much more Sneak Show and Esperblade). I would like to assume they tried to make sure as many cards doubled up on use as possible.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I would enjoy seeing a tourney report from either of the GP players, but that seems unlikely. I am guessing the high curve was partially to exploit Sin Prodder, but I personally have been caught with 3 uncastable Fiery Confluence in hand after turning off a sol land with Blood Moon or just failing to draw into a 4th land in a timely manner...

It is possible these players mulligan more/less aggressively to get the hand they need. The sheer length of the event (15 rounds) implies variance didn't screw them that much. My personal style likes having a 2 mana 'shock' against a format of X/2's, but if all you play in a tourney is Sneak and Show, Storm, and Lands, Fiery Confluence is the better card. :rolleyes:



Edit:
I've been thinking more on Shaman of the Great Hunt...

This card more than any I can think of gives us the ability to turn 3 a goldfish. There is a fair amount of Magical Christmasland involved... but it's almost December. :tongue:

As an example:
Turn 1 Goblin Rabblemaster => Make a token, swing for 1 (1 damage total)
Turn 2 Shaman of the Great Hunt => Make a token, swing for 10 (11 damage total), put +1/+1 counters on your 4 creatures
Turn 3, Swing for lethal (16 additional damage)

Or

Turn 1 Hanweir Garrison
Turn 2 Shaman of the Great Hunt => Swing for 8 (8 damage total), put +1/+1 counters on your 4 creatures
Turn 3, Swing for lethal (14 additional damage)

[benjiman13]

I like the 3 fiery main, maybe 4 is overkill...

Something missing (in my opinion) in the 2 lists of GP Chiba :
Ensnaring Bridge which in my testing is an all star! (Against Lands, Eldrazi, Tarmo, Sneak and Show, KotR, reanimator)

[amppyou]

The tilt away from Koth is interesting. I wish I owned 3 Chandra's to test them as a 3 of in the main.

[ZTurgeon]

I like the 3 fiery main, maybe 4 is overkill...

Something missing (in my opinion) in the 2 lists of GP Chiba :
Ensnaring Bridge which in my testing is an all star! (Against Lands, Eldrazi, Tarmo, Sneak and Show, KotR, reanimator)

It's much harder to play bridges when you don't have too many threats that win without attacking. Goblin Stompy can get away with it because it's high end threats do other things, but its real hard to slam a turn 2 bridge and then look at your thunderbreak regent in hand.

[AceOfJacks]

High likelihood it's a metagame call for Confluence, but the more I look at it, the more I hate it. 4 cmc, double red, seems bad against the decks it claims to be good against.

DnT, costs 5/6 mana, and Mother of Runes saves the dude they use to swing in for lethal next turn.
BUG, likely eats a Force of Will, or wipes the small dudes like Deathrite and Delver, but then that Goyf is free to hit you now that you wiped your OWN creatures as well.
Merfolk, doesn't do enough damage unless you lose all your creatures from attacks first. Then the TNN bends you over without a condom.
Eldrazi, kills Mimics? Ratchet Bombs? Maybe?
Lands, kills the mighty MOX DIAMOND! Omg broken card! /sarcasm


Unless there's something I'm not seeing?

[Zirath]

High likelihood it's a metagame call for Confluence, but the more I look at it, the more I hate it. 4 cmc, double red, seems bad against the decks it claims to be good against.

DnT, costs 5/6 mana, and Mother of Runes saves the dude they use to swing in for lethal next turn.
BUG, likely eats a Force of Will, or wipes the small dudes like Deathrite and Delver, but then that Goyf is free to hit you now that you wiped your OWN creatures as well.
Merfolk, doesn't do enough damage unless you lose all your creatures from attacks first. Then the TNN bends you over without a condom.
Eldrazi, kills Mimics? Ratchet Bombs? Maybe?
Lands, kills the mighty MOX DIAMOND! Omg broken card! /sarcasm


Unless there's something I'm not seeing?

There is also the race potential. It deals 6 to the dome. I imagine a number of games ended this way between Chandra and the highly aggressive suite.

4 is almost 100% the wrong number. It has to be 3. Max.

[Controlmasterksa]

This build has been doing me well in the last couple weeks in practice and live events.
Creatures
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thopter Engineer
3 Pia Nalaar
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Hangerback Walker
Artifacts
3 Smuggler's Copter
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
Enchantments
3 Blood Moon
Sorceries
3 Fiery Confluence
Lands
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Sideboard
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock

Ensnaring Bridge has been the MVP of the deck, with the thopter tokens able to bypass the bridge lock and over stalled blockers. The artifacts theme is a bit personal, but Thopter Engineer allows for faster games, keeping me from losing to miracles since the addition. The Fiery Confluence is back and forthed with the new Chandra, but haven't decided on final list before GP Louisville. Kozilek's Return in testing has been far superior to Sulfur Elemental against DnT.
I don't know if this build is for everyone, but works for me, and any others who like to bridge control with little fliers.

[AceOfJacks]

I like Thopter beatdown. I wonder if you could use some rogue card like Purphoros or maybe even Obelisk of Urd to catch your opponent off guard and alpha strike? Probably too "cute" and not powerful enough. Love the Aether Grid in the board too! You can hide behind the Bridge and ping them to death. Great concept.

[Controlmasterksa]

The Ghirapur Aether Grid side trick works a lot better than it would seem. Because a lot games post board drag on, the increased damage output betters the odd of not going to time. Also makes excess utility artifacts usable. I had tried using power boosting effects but couldn't get them into the 75. The Pia Nalaar boosting effect works well enough.
The main issues Iv come across is the flex spot in using Hangerback Walker. It was the new Chandra and another Pia and Kiran Nalaar, but having too many 4 costs slowed the deck down pre-board. It works well in stalled games, build up then sacrifice to get 3 or 4 tokens. It's good against eldrazi as it is usually bigger then the free creatures they get before a Moon lock. But the argument of new Chandra's ability as a PW is hard to dismiss. Could is in place of Koth in board but it's faster in stalled games. Miracles is the only long game where Chandra was better in testing.
Smuggler's Copter is what made the deck be able to function. The looting helped make dead hands have meaning, and the flying and low cost made for faster games. Most decks the the bridge is brought in against don't need a full hand commitment so it gets through the lock.
Fleetwheel Cruiser was in the original sideboard but needed help against reanimator, but it was a huge hitter against DnT and control decks.

[amppyou]

The Ghirapur Aether Grid side trick works a lot better than it would seem. Because a lot games post board drag on, the increased damage output betters the odd of not going to time. Also makes excess utility artifacts usable. I had tried using power boosting effects but couldn't get them into the 75. The Pia Nalaar boosting effect works well enough.
The main issues Iv come across is the flex spot in using Hangerback Walker. It was the new Chandra and another Pia and Kiran Nalaar, but having too many 4 costs slowed the deck down pre-board. It works well in stalled games, build up then sacrifice to get 3 or 4 tokens. It's good against eldrazi as it is usually bigger then the free creatures they get before a Moon lock. But the argument of new Chandra's ability as a PW is hard to dismiss. Could is in place of Koth in board but it's faster in stalled games. Miracles is the only long game where Chandra was better in testing.
Smuggler's Copter is what made the deck be able to function. The looting helped make dead hands have meaning, and the flying and low cost made for faster games. Most decks the the bridge is brought in against don't need a full hand commitment so it gets through the lock.
Fleetwheel Cruiser was in the original sideboard but needed help against reanimator, but it was a huge hitter against DnT and control decks.

do you ever miss Blood Moon in your 75? Is your meta just not as susceptible to moon, so you don't care to go all in? Also, have you tried Ravager? I saw another player who posted artifact stompy a few pages back mention it working well in his testing.

[Controlmasterksa]

Blood Moon is in it, 3 of them, just forgot to add to list (edited in).
Tried the Ravager, and for its strengths it did not have the same benefits Hangerback Walker has in terms of token generation, and it was counter productive with Ensnaring Bridge.
In terms of Blood Moon, it's the core of the deck strategy, so wouldn't go below 3 of them. They do get taken out before Magus of the Moon though.

[TLK]

Interesting Dragon Stompy list won a local 50+ person Legacy event:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Forgotten Cave
8 Mountain
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Wheel
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Chrome Mox
3 Lotus Petal
3 Trinisphere

1 Blood Moon
2 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Sulfur Elemental
1 Trinisphere

Magus of the Wheel is an inclusion I don't believe I've seen.

[Octopusman]

Hey hey, prodder getting some mentions. Still running 4 in my list.
The Rabblemaster plus Shaman seems hilarious. Will definitely be testing some of these variants. Seem so fun but going to miss Stormbreath.

Been a lot of talk about the count for confluence but didn't see anyone mention that we're often pitching cards to mox so 4 might be the right number.

I know some Japanese so I'll see if I can hunt these guys down on a Japanese forum. Are they homies? Their lists are so similar...

Exciting developments. I really want to see the decks they were paired against. Kind of important to see if confluence was an all star wiping the board against D&T, or if they mooned out greedy decks all day.

[Jakobian1010]

Here's some of the metagame breakdown for that event.
https://www.meta-chart.com/share/legacy-for-staples-fire-dice-12416

[ZTurgeon]

Interesting Dragon Stompy list won a local 50+ person Legacy event:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Forgotten Cave
8 Mountain
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Wheel
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Chrome Mox
3 Lotus Petal
3 Trinisphere

1 Blood Moon
2 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Sulfur Elemental
1 Trinisphere

Magus of the Wheel is an inclusion I don't believe I've seen.

I tried him for a while and he was okay. Being a 3/3 was huge, but his ability ended up going unused most games. It was too much of a risk of a draw 7 leading to lands going in the yard for deathrite or a fresh 7 having a basic land. It was normally just better to beatdown with a 3/3 and if we are doing that, prodder or garrison seems better. The best thing about Magus was you could break up terminus or stoneforges ability by wheeling away hands at the right time.

[korstructure]

Played a Chiba-amalgam to a 3-1 finish at local legacy, despite being a total Dragon Stompy noob. Luckily, I had most of the cards from various Modern and Legacy decks.

R1 - W (2-1) - RG Lands. G1 Manabond -> Six lands -> Pass -> Blood Moon.
R2 - W (2-0) - Dega Tainted Pact (highlander deck with planeswalkers). Chalice, Trinisphere, Blood Moon - any one of these was usually enough.
R3 - L (0-2) - Jund with Rabblemasters. Opposing Rabblemasters are really good against us! But Goyf or anything else would've ended with the same result. I made a mistake thinking that a Blood Moon, no matter how late, would be good - so I kept hands accordingly. I was wrong. A fast Blood Moon (not Magus) is great in this matchup, but nothing else really matters. I kept slow hands and got hymn'd, putting the game out of reach. Should have mulliganed harder.
R4 - W (2-0) - Bant Stoneblade. G1 Blood Moon. G2 Trinisphere + No second land for him.

Boy, do I like this deck! I think it's at its best in an evolved metagame such as mine - where nearly everybody has access to duals, etc. I wouldn't play this deck at some of the smaller venues where I play, where burn and D&T are more likely.

Chandra, Torch was my main draw to this deck and she was great every time I played her. HOWEVER, the game needed to get to a place where I could play her - getting to four mana consistently was harder than I expected in this deck.

On the other side of the coin, I liked 4x Fiery Confluence. That card always felt like a reasonable out. The 6-to-the-face option is great.

I played 1x Stormbreath Dragon (over 1x Thundermaw Hellkite) and I would have preferred the Shaman of the Great Hunts. I'm going to go: -1 Sin Prodder and -1 Stormbreath Dragon and +2 Shaman of the Great Hunt.

I'm a Dragon Stompy neophyte but I've enjoyed my first foray.


Hey hey, prodder getting some mentions. Still running 4 in my list.
The Rabblemaster plus Shaman seems hilarious. Will definitely be testing some of these variants. Seem so fun but going to miss Stormbreath.

Been a lot of talk about the count for confluence but didn't see anyone mention that we're often pitching cards to mox so 4 might be the right number.

I know some Japanese so I'll see if I can hunt these guys down on a Japanese forum. Are they homies? Their lists are so similar...

Exciting developments. I really want to see the decks they were paired against. Kind of important to see if confluence was an all star wiping the board against D&T, or if they mooned out greedy decks all day.

[apocolyps6]

Hi folks. I kinda admire stompy decks from afar, and sometimes play them on xmage to medium success. I had a small tournament today and my usual deck has a meh position in that meta, so I sleeved up this stompy list.

"Friday Stompy"

27 Mana
8 Mountain
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

14 Lock
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

8 Threats
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Hanweir Garrison
2 Phyrexian Revoker

9 Gobbo package
4 Moggcatcher
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuk Tuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap

2 Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Sideboard
2 Null Rod
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Fiery Confluence
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Leyline of the Void


I like the list in theory, but it really did not perform for me. I'd love some input about that. Here's a brief tournament report.

Lands
G1: I land a T1 Moon. He plays a Vortex. I then play Chalice on 1, 0, and 2, then Trinisphere, then 3 more moons. then I play X/2s into his vortex until on turn 50 or so I find a Chandra
SB: +3 Leyline, +4 Bridge -Gobbo package
G2: I keep a slow-ish 7 with a leyline. Opponent has 2 turns to set up to beat my moon with grip + tracker
G3: I mull to 4 and keep 2 lands and draw some leylines while my opponent T1s a Tracker and combo kills me with that + exploration.

Aluren
G1: I mull to a 6 that is 2x monkey, mox, magus, chalice, rabblemaster. I know my opponent watched my round 1 game and mulled to 6, so I put him on not losing to magus. I was wrong but the T1 rabblemaster ends up getting there.
SB: +Sharpshooter +2 Fiery Confluence -3 chalice
G2: I mull a 7 that has minimal action and the only keepable hand ends up being my 4. I don't draw lands to cast my spells and die.
G3: I get a fast moon and trinisphere. Opponent plays a revoker on Chandra, draws into a forest, and plays a scooze. The spells I drew were magus, revoker, and Chandra. I get down to 4 life, opponent gets an active DRS and swings with the 2 other creatures. I trade my dudes to not lose, cast chandra to kill scooze, and lose to the DRS.

Dredge
G1: I concede to a therapy because my hand isn't winning the game.
SB: +3 leyline +4 Bridge -7 moons
G2: I start with leyline, cast trinisphere, and establish a Chandra. Opponent casts Wear/Tear and then goes off.

I probably boarded out the wrong thing every time. The deck had a lot of trouble getting the mana to cast its spells. Is my curve too high? Leyline felt horrible. I hope I made a bunch of mistakes because the deck felt horribly inconsistent and I'd love for that to be an exception rather than the rule.

[Quentin Coldman]

I tried out Avaricious Dragon in this deck and was suprised how strong he performed. We're so often hellbent and then he's a straight a draw 2 each turn without any drawback. What you guys think?

[Zupponn]

Did a bit of testing with Sin Prodder. Seems pretty good in more aggressive lists.

I actually ran into the mirror on MTGO where I was running the Goblin version vs a newer player running something similar to the Japanese list a page back. My experience in that matchup is very little, but I will say that I don't have enough sideboard cards to bring in. In the end each game just came down to whoever had the faster opening.

[Ace/Homebrew]

"Friday Stompy"

Hey man! So the deck has built-in consistency issues, but statistically it shouldn't give you too much of a problem over a short event. Mulling at least one hand to oblivion happens, even in the short events...

What did you think of Moggcatcher? Your write-up didn't mention resolving him. That version's mana curve is typically going to be steeper because the toolbox goblins are mostly 4s and 5s.

Dredge:
Keeping a hand with Murderous Redcap can sometimes be enough against Dredge. If he shocks himself, your opponent's bridges get removed from their graveyard and he can ping a Narco when he persists. Based on the cards you brought, you definitely side in Goblin Sharpshooter over Tuktuk Scrapper. Sharpshooter is a house against Dredge!

Lands:
I've never liked Leyline of the Void in this deck... I prefer some sort of split between Tormod's Crypt and Faerie Macabre. Either of those would have served you better against Lands too. Other than turn 1, I'd argue the correct number for Chalice here is 2. Especially with the Goblin version since the toughness on all your creatures is 2 or less. Mulling to 4 is tough. :frown:

You didn't play with any Shocks (Magma Jet or Sudden Shock)! Magma Jet is probably as close as we get to library manipulation.

[apocolyps6]

Hey Ace, thanks for the reply.

I really like Moggcatcher in theory, but I never got to resolve it and untap. I drew into 2 G1 against Lands, but they quickly got shocked. The rest of the games I barely hit 4 mana. I don't want to cut the package unless its really incorrect not to, because Moggcatcher is good enough to take over games by itself, and makes 1of goblins matter more.

Leyline of the Void was definitely a mistake, but is Crypt the most powerful card I can play instead? Last time out of 8 players there was RG Lands, 5C Lands, and Dredge, at least two of which are likely to be at the next event.

I was thinking of moving the Chandras to the board over the Null Rods and playing Smuggler's Copter instead. Hopefully that would help with the consistency and curve issues. I'm not sure how much I like 1-for-1 removal in this kind of deck. How good/important is it?

I'd also appreciate suggestions on things to cut.
I'm playing 2 Trinisphere mostly for the Aluren matchup.
Phyrexian Revoker was me noticing how high the curve was and wanting cheaper interaction
I'm really liking the Bridge plan postboard, and Chandra kind of plays into that.
I also was not expecting miracles, but walkers and Moggcatcher are good against the deck, right?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I really like Moggcatcher in theory, but I never got to resolve it and untap. I drew into 2 G1 against Lands, but they quickly got shocked. The rest of the games I barely hit 4 mana.

This has been my issue with Moggcatcher as well. I know others will disagree as their experience has been different, and that's fine. The last time I included Moggcatcher, it was a 2-of and the package was 1 Siege-Gang Commander and 2 Goblin Settler (as well as the 4 Rabblemasters of course). I find Moggcatcher to be inherently unreliable because you have to untap with it to gain any measurable value. Once you get to that point, it's Valuetown... but you've still got to get to that point. That is also why I do not like Tuktuk Scrapper maindeck in Moggcatcher lists. Sure it can be the correct call depending on the meta, but against an unknown field including 1 Tuktuk as your artifact removal gives you a false sense of security. If your opponent Stoneforge's for a Batterskull or Jitte and your only answer is Moggcatcher, you have to get to 4 mana, hope they don't have StP, and then hope all the time that passed between their equipment hitting the field and you answering it didn't already put you in too deep of a hole. Fiery Confluence costs the same amount of mana as Tuktuk but has a much larger (and more versatile) effect, and you play more copies because you don't trick yourself into thinking you can find it when you need it.



Leyline of the Void was definitely a mistake, but is Crypt the most powerful card I can play instead? Last time out of 8 players there was RG Lands, 5C Lands, and Dredge, at least two of which are likely to be at the next event.

Keep in mind what this deck's true goal is! You are a turn 0 Blood Moon deck. If you play with that in mind, your matchup against Lands should be highly favorable. I like Ensnaring Bridges and Fiery Confluences over graveyard-hate every time. Would you rather make Loam unplayable by attacking their graveyard (which you are not optimized to attack), or their ability to cast spells in the first place?

Dredge is trickier, but again Fiery Confluence is pretty nuts.


I'm not sure how much I like 1-for-1 removal in this kind of deck. How good/important is it?

Depends on what you are taking out... Against a Deathrite Shaman threatening to give your opponent an out to Blood Moon? Yeah I want a 1-for-1 Shock every game. Again, I prefer Magma Jet because it can dig to or passed lands.


I also was not expecting miracles, but walkers and Moggcatcher are good against the deck, right?

Yeah, welcome to one of the fringe decks Miracles struggles against. :laugh:
They play Blood Moon, but they do it on their terms after establishing a few basics. If you land it right away, you might catch them off guard. At a minimum, it turns off the fetch-top interaction. CotV @ 1 is arguably the more important turn 1 play. Play out 1 threat at a time and don't commit a second until the 1st one was dealt with.

[apocolyps6]

Tbh not sure why I had a scrapper in my 75. If I thought to question it, it probably would not be there. I'm leaning towards not playing the gobbo package for the reasons you provided.

As for grave hate, I'm less concerned with Lands and more with Dredge. Maybe that's fine tho.

I'm considering replacing the gobs with something like 2 more garrisons 3ish copters and 4 jets.

A part of me also just wants to main 4 bridges and find some way to win through that without playing a bunch of 4drops

[Ace/Homebrew]

A part of me also just wants to main 4 bridges and find some way to win through that without playing a bunch of 4drops
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage and Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh, but mostly Koth and new Chandra...

[Quentin Coldman]

I just tried Smuggler's Copter in combination with Thopter Engineer and it was just insane. Looting through the deck and digging for answers is very good and helps with the consistency. Also moves like Turn 1 Engineer into Turn 2 double Thopter is a paar very hard to beat. Spotremoval becomes worse against cards like Thopter Engineer, Pia Nalaar and Pia and Kiran Nalaar, and u always have a crew for your Copter. Playing less of C4 cards helps, because u can play nearly all cards on turn 1. More artifacts give us also the oppurtunity to play Ghirapur Aether Grid in the sideboard against stuff like Miracles, Elves and D&T. Just think about the more agressive Thopter Engineer + Smuggler's Copter plan, I'm really a fan of it.

[TLK]

I just tried Smuggler's Copter in combination with Thopter Engineer and it was just insane. Looting through the deck and digging for answers is very good and helps with the consistency. Also moves like Turn 1 Engineer into Turn 2 double Thopter is a paar very hard to beat. Spotremoval becomes worse against cards like Thopter Engineer, Pia Nalaar and Pia and Kiran Nalaar, and u always have a crew for your Copter. Playing less of C4 cards helps, because u can play nearly all cards on turn 1. More artifacts give us also the oppurtunity to play Ghirapur Aether Grid in the sideboard against stuff like Miracles, Elves and D&T. Just think about the more agressive Thopter Engineer + Smuggler's Copter plan, I'm really a fan of it.

Interesting idea. What's your current list?

[Quentin Coldman]

Interesting idea. What's your current list?

//Lands (18)
10 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

//Creatures (20)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Thopter Engineer
3 Pia Nalaar
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Phyrexian Revoker

//Artifacts (12)
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smuggler's Copter

//Spells (10)
4 Magma Jet
4 Blood Moon
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

//Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Trinisphere
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid

I thought about playing Bridge main, but with Copter we can also be very agressive. Not sure if we really want 3 Pia, maybe 1-2 Imperial Recruiter would be nice in this deck, also a creature that can be crew for a Copter. With haste the Copter is really strong, I'll try the list soon at a tournament and maybe Aether Revolt brings us more toys :)

[Controlmasterksa]

After practicing my list of the Thopter build (few pages back), testing has shown its pretty op and makes up for the weaknesses the style of deck can have. The DnT matchup gets about 50/50, especially if Bridge is put it, as most people don't run Serra Avenger anymore. Miracles is an easy win, when half the creatures have are 2 for ones, people waste a Termious on 1 card, then play another, with majority out of average Counterbalance range. The "new" reanimator build of black red has been only hardship, with the debat over how to fight it post board. Bridges help but can't decide on Tormod's Crypt or the Faerie (or some other card). Trinisphere is still great, and with the Aether Grids makes games where the 4th goes in, never have dead cards. Koth isn't cutting it anymore, as Bridge locking is bypassed by the Thopter tokens, and the Aether Grid, doing an average more damage than the Koth emblem in the same amount of time.

[Quentin Coldman]

I just checked ur list, it's really close to mine I really like it. How worked the Hangarback Walker for u? It's not that easy to come on 4 Mana, so in most cases we just have to put in on 1.

[Controlmasterksa]

Hangerback Walker had its perks as it worked during stalled turns, could be the largest creature in the deck, and could produced a large air unit, but it did end up getting cut for new Chandra. The direct damage to bulked creatures was more beneficial than having a single large creature that takes a couple turns to get going.

Here's the current list, most likely where I'm at for GP Louisville:
Creatures
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thopter Engineer
3 Pia Nalaar
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Phyrexian Revoker
Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Torch of Defience
Artifacts
3 Smuggler's Copter
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
Enchantments
3 Blood Moon
Sorceries
2 Fiery Confluence
Lands
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Sideboard
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Kozilek's Return
3 Sudden Shock

Switched to Faerie Macabre as I'd get crushed by reanimator I didn't get a Bridge or Trinisphere turn 1. Kozilek's Return, although it clears most of my board, gets rid of Mother of Runes, which is an issue, as well as the instant speed against elves.

[Zirath]

I'm going to be playing this for a decent amount of time from now on. I've been testing the post Chiba lists (4 Prodder, 4 Chandra, 3 Confluence) and I'm trying to settle on the last three creatures. I know I will have at least 3 Regent but I'm trying to decide between 3 Shaman of the Great Hunt and 2 Stormbreath Dragon. I dislike Shaman because it feels winmore but 5 mana is hard to manage consistently in these builds (I'm on 19 land). Any thoughts?

I also really like the thopter builds but I don't like the combo with Confluence. I'll probably work on it in more depth tomorrow night but my rough list would be:

8 Moons
4 Engineer
4 Pia
3 Pia and Kiran
4 Copter

4 Chandra

4 Chalice
2 Trinisphere
4 Mox
4 Guide

8 Sol Lands
3 Cavern
8 Mountain

[Zupponn]

Why not Thunderbreak? Seems better than Shaman and is cheaper to cast than Stormbreath.

[Zirath]

This is the list I played at Mythic today.:

10 Mountains
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Sin Prodder
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

3 Fiery Confluence

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

Sideboard
2 Pyrokinesis
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Trinisphere
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sudden Shock

I went 4-2 (DeadGuy: W, Sneak Show: W, Food Chain: L, Red MUD: L, Miracles: W, RUG Lands: W). I had two games where I felt that I got truly screwed over by variance. All my other losses I can point to small mistakes. This new list feels incredibly smooth. Between two reliable draw engines that potentially end games (Chandra ult domed Miracles for 10) and a much better assortment of powerful spells (Dragons + Confluence), I am very happy with this list. Red MUD may be a truly bad match up but it comes up so infrequently that I'm not very concerned.

[Controlmasterksa]

I can't find something superior to Stormbreath Dragon. Also, Null Rod is 100% wrong but I can't determine what it is supposed to be.

Whenever I run the actually Dragons, it's been a 4/3/1 (before new Chandra) of Thunderbreak Regent, Stormbreath Dragon, and a Thundermaw Hellkite. It may not have the evasion level that Stormbreath Dragon has, but works to set a hard hit against fair decks that may be slowing you down.

In terms of the Null Rod, with all the testing I've been doing, Trinisphere has been an important asset against the rising combo and low-curve aggro decks. I know many don't like it due to the restrictions it imposes on the user, but it can win a game once it hits the board, so adding a third may be an option worth taking.

[Zirath]

Accidentally edited my post above instead of making a new one. A little tired today.

Moral: new list great. Very happy. Still gonna try the Thopter list.

[AceOfJacks]

Played at LGS today, and after several weeks of going 2-2 or worse with Hanweir Garrison and Smuggler's Copter, I decided to change up the list to play something I personally did not want to play.

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain

4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Blood Moon

4 Magus of the Moon
3 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sudden Shock
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ensnaring Bridge

Tonight I went 4-0, despite my initial doubts about the list.

Rd 1, Abzan, 2-1.
Opp started g1 on the play with Swamp, Thoughtseize g1, and for the first few turns I could not tell what he was on. Only after he swung the game heavily in his favor was I able to understand he was Abzan and not Jund or B/G Loam. Crushed him with Sin Prodder and Thunderbreak Regent games 2 and 3.

Rd 2, 4c Delver, 2-0.
G1 opp plays Polluted Delta, pass. I land t1 Blood Moon, he chooses not to fetch and it resolves. T2, he plays a second Delta. I play turn 2 Chalice for 1. He plays a THIRD Delta. I play Trinisphere. He plays a fourth blue fetch. I miss a turn 4 play. He plays a fifth blue fetch. I play Chandra, he concedes once I have a clock on the table.
I do not sideboard against him, as he literally only showed me blue fetches, and I have no idea what he is playing. G2 he starts off with the usual Ponders and Brainstorms, countering my lock pieces. Sin Prodder mvp's the game, and Thunderbreak seals the deal again.

Rd 3, Reanimator, 2-1.
I start off with Chalice for 1, he discards Griselbrand and passes. I immediately curse out loud. I try to lock his lands, but he draws the basic swamp and Exhumes a Griselbrand. I have Magus of the Moon, Sin Prodder, and Thunderbreak in play, and I mistakenly backswing with the entire team instead of leaving the Regent on defense. I Fiery Confluence him to 1 life, and he untaps, and swings with Griselbrand, killing me. G2 and G3 I did not see a single Leyline, but I manage to lean eavily on Chalice for 1 both games. Game 3 was close, as he Exhumed and Elesh Norn, killing my Magus and Sin Prodder, but I literally race him with a 2/2 Thunderbreak. Scary!

Rd 4, Esper Stoneblade, 2-1.
Opp is a buddy of mine, but he plays slowly against me every time we play. He claims my deck comes at him from many angles, but I think it's just that he doesn't play against anyone else who plays Blood Moon ... ever .... G1 we go down to 32 minutes on the clock, but he wins with 2x True-Name Nemesis. Game 2 I kill him with Chandra and Ensnaring Bridge, ultimating Chandra and using the emblem. 9 minutes left. Sideboard, mulligans, 7 minutes
I complain that he is playing slowly. I kill him with 2x Thunderbreak Regent with 25 seconds left in the round timer.

Thoughts:
1- Sin Prodder was surprisingly excellent tonight. Apparently Menace + damage to opponents face wins games, when followed up by lock pieces.
2- I thought I would have more problems getting to and maintaining 4 mana on the table, hence the 20th land. A few games were mulligans to 6 with 1 land, but somehow I found myself in Magical Christmas Land ... I guess I can only play this deck in December ...

I will play it again next week ... and complain more. (Even though I went undefeated. The noob wins and STILL complains ... what a loser!)

[korstructure]

Nice finish, Ace. As you can see - a page back - I, too, played this list and had good success. I have added a 20th land as well.

I think this is the real-deal direction and we should continue to see what types of results we can put up with it.

Agree - Sin Prodder is excellent. I recommend trying Shaman of the Great Hunt, as well. It looks only mediocre on paper but plays much better in reality.

One interesting note is that the Chiba lists were absent Ensnaring Bridge. I believe that this was deliberate. I know that it goes with the "lock" theme - but, much like other longstanding mainstays, perhaps it's time to rethink if we truly need the card. Would anyone care to talk about their experiences with the card? We all know what it does - but think critically about how the games play out... does it truly add that many % points to our winrate? Are we stuck unable to empty our hands? Might that SB slot be utilized for something more impactful?


Played at LGS today, and after several weeks of going 2-2 or worse with Hanweir Garrison and Smuggler's Copter, I decided to change up the list to play something I personally did not want to play.

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain

4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Blood Moon

4 Magus of the Moon
3 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sudden Shock
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ensnaring Bridge

Tonight I went 4-0, despite my initial doubts about the list.

Rd 1, Abzan, 2-1.
Opp started g1 on the play with Swamp, Thoughtseize g1, and for the first few turns I could not tell what he was on. Only after he swung the game heavily in his favor was I able to understand he was Abzan and not Jund or B/G Loam. Crushed him with Sin Prodder and Thunderbreak Regent games 2 and 3.

Rd 2, 4c Delver, 2-0.
G1 opp plays Polluted Delta, pass. I land t1 Blood Moon, he chooses not to fetch and it resolves. T2, he plays a second Delta. I play turn 2 Chalice for 1. He plays a THIRD Delta. I play Trinisphere. He plays a fourth blue fetch. I miss a turn 4 play. He plays a fifth blue fetch. I play Chandra, he concedes once I have a clock on the table.
I do not sideboard against him, as he literally only showed me blue fetches, and I have no idea what he is playing. G2 he starts off with the usual Ponders and Brainstorms, countering my lock pieces. Sin Prodder mvp's the game, and Thunderbreak seals the deal again.

Rd 3, Reanimator, 2-1.
I start off with Chalice for 1, he discards Griselbrand and passes. I immediately curse out loud. I try to lock his lands, but he draws the basic swamp and Exhumes a Griselbrand. I have Magus of the Moon, Sin Prodder, and Thunderbreak in play, and I mistakenly backswing with the entire team instead of leaving the Regent on defense. I Fiery Confluence him to 1 life, and he untaps, and swings with Griselbrand, killing me. G2 and G3 I did not see a single Leyline, but I manage to lean eavily on Chalice for 1 both games. Game 3 was close, as he Exhumed and Elesh Norn, killing my Magus and Sin Prodder, but I literally race him with a 2/2 Thunderbreak. Scary!

Rd 4, Esper Stoneblade, 2-1.
Opp is a buddy of mine, but he plays slowly against me every time we play. He claims my deck comes at him from many angles, but I think it's just that he doesn't play against anyone else who plays Blood Moon ... ever .... G1 we go down to 32 minutes on the clock, but he wins with 2x True-Name Nemesis. Game 2 I kill him with Chandra and Ensnaring Bridge, ultimating Chandra and using the emblem. 9 minutes left. Sideboard, mulligans, 7 minutes
I complain that he is playing slowly. I kill him with 2x Thunderbreak Regent with 25 seconds left in the round timer.

Thoughts:
1- Sin Prodder was surprisingly excellent tonight. Apparently Menace + damage to opponents face wins games, when followed up by lock pieces.
2- I thought I would have more problems getting to and maintaining 4 mana on the table, hence the 20th land. A few games were mulligans to 6 with 1 land, but somehow I found myself in Magical Christmas Land ... I guess I can only play this deck in December ...

I will play it again next week ... and complain more. (Even though I went undefeated. The noob wins and STILL complains ... what a loser!)

[Zirath]

One interesting note is that the Chiba lists were absent Ensnaring Bridge. I believe that this was deliberate. I know that it goes with the "lock" theme - but, much like other longstanding mainstays, perhaps it's time to rethink if we truly need the card. Would anyone care to talk about their experiences with the card? We all know what it does - but think critically about how the games play out... does it truly add that many % points to our winrate? Are we stuck unable to empty our hands? Might that SB slot be utilized for something more impactful?

I actually think that Ensnaring Bridge is even more viable in these new builds. Between Chandra and Fiery Confluence, we have the ability to win the game from behind Bridge. I can definitely say that I had multiple games where Bridge was a very important factor and I was very happy I played it.

I am actually more interested in talking about Trinisphere. Card felt pretty meh for me as usual on Saturday. Having played MUD for a long time, Trinisphere was very underwhelming there as well.

[AceOfJacks]

Ensnaring Bridge saved me in two matches last night. It gave me the ability to Chandra my opponent out against Reanimator, after he reanimated an Elesh Norn and unlocked his lands from me losing Magus. It helped against 2x True-Name Nemesis in game 2 against Esper Stoneblade, again winning via Chandra.

There are situations where holding the Bridge in hand ia correct, only using it as a "failsafe." Sometimes you wish to draw it asap, knowing the matchup is not going to favor you at all. Either way, it's very important. Sneak and Show, Reanimator, and even Thing in the Ice / Nahiri control, all need Bridge.

Edit: Just saw the comment about Trinisphere. I think it's possible to run 3 Trinispheres in the sideboard and free up some maindeck slots. It's required, but mostly against combo and counterspells, even if it's just bait for the counterspell itself. IT NEEDS to be run in a deck like this, since Burn, Delver, Storm, and Infect can all overwhelm us before we can establish some sort of board presence.

[Controlmasterksa]

Of all my testing for GP Louisville, using the thopter build, the only deck of top tier or excess popularity that I'm having issues with is non-blue reanimator. With sideboard modifications of 3 Ensnaring Bridge, 3 Faerie Macabre, and a 4th Trinisphere, I'm still not being able to safely deal with the deck. The addition of Collected Brutality helps keep reanimator decks from folding to Chalice of the Void, and the lack of blue (or green) makes the deck almost immune to moon effects. A turn 1 Trinisphere on the play seems to be the only way to win. Some lists board in artifact removal for Bridges, making it less relevant as a stop all. Am I just an unlucky person in practice, or are others having the same issues? Or should I not even worry as most people will not be prepared for a Chalice and Moon deck, as well as the randomness of a legacy GP?

[CovenantElite30]

Of all my testing for GP Louisville, using the thopter build, the only deck of top tier or excess popularity that I'm having issues with is non-blue reanimator. With sideboard modifications of 3 Ensnaring Bridge, 3 Faerie Macabre, and a 4th Trinisphere, I'm still not being able to safely deal with the deck. The addition of Collected Brutality helps keep reanimator decks from folding to Chalice of the Void, and the lack of blue (or green) makes the deck almost immune to moon effects. A turn 1 Trinisphere on the play seems to be the only way to win. Some lists board in artifact removal for Bridges, making it less relevant as a stop all. Am I just an unlucky person in practice, or are others having the same issues? Or should I not even worry as most people will not be prepared for a Chalice and Moon deck, as well as the randomness of a legacy GP?
What do you think about playing this card as a 2 of in this deck?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/f0c460977ddb94f36ea439f1f35b9cd0.jpg

[Controlmasterksa]

What do you think about playing this card as a 2 of in this deck?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/f0c460977ddb94f36ea439f1f35b9cd0.jpg

Unfortunately due to its cost, there'd be a lot of difficulty casting it, as a moon effect would deter a benefite to playing it, as the deck only has an average of 3 lands in play by turn 5. Without a moon effect, requiring triple red to cast can be difficult. The sad part though, is that most of what would be on the board, you don't want to destroy yourself to get a random outcome, and sorcery speed removal against your opponent that gives them a replacement isn't great when playing a prison style deck.

[Wichtelman]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/128/857/636193038525087983.png

what do you guys think about this card in a build with 2-3 jitte md?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I like her, but only as a 'fun-of'.
Probably wouldn't run 3 Jittes, but I agree that she's best in an equipment build (2 Jitte, 1 SoFaI/1 Jitte, 2 SoFaI/1 Jitte, 1 SoFaI, 1 SoWaP)

Otherwise this set was hot garbage for Blood Moon.dec.
Maaaaaaybe Heart of Kiran...

[korstructure]

I've noticed a dearth of GP Louisville reports on this deck.

Any reports? ControlMaster? Anyone?


Of all my testing for GP Louisville, using the thopter build, the only deck of top tier or excess popularity that I'm having issues with is non-blue reanimator. With sideboard modifications of 3 Ensnaring Bridge, 3 Faerie Macabre, and a 4th Trinisphere, I'm still not being able to safely deal with the deck. The addition of Collected Brutality helps keep reanimator decks from folding to Chalice of the Void, and the lack of blue (or green) makes the deck almost immune to moon effects. A turn 1 Trinisphere on the play seems to be the only way to win. Some lists board in artifact removal for Bridges, making it less relevant as a stop all. Am I just an unlucky person in practice, or are others having the same issues? Or should I not even worry as most people will not be prepared for a Chalice and Moon deck, as well as the randomness of a legacy GP?

[Wichtelman]

Of all my testing for GP Louisville, using the thopter build, the only deck of top tier or excess popularity that I'm having issues with is non-blue reanimator. With sideboard modifications of 3 Ensnaring Bridge, 3 Faerie Macabre, and a 4th Trinisphere, I'm still not being able to safely deal with the deck. The addition of Collected Brutality helps keep reanimator decks from folding to Chalice of the Void, and the lack of blue (or green) makes the deck almost immune to moon effects. A turn 1 Trinisphere on the play seems to be the only way to win. Some lists board in artifact removal for Bridges, making it less relevant as a stop all. Am I just an unlucky person in practice, or are others having the same issues? Or should I not even worry as most people will not be prepared for a Chalice and Moon deck, as well as the randomness of a legacy GP?

if you really want to beat reanimator and want to be strong vs show and tell aswell play some karakas in your sb... sure they may get a non legend but you could beat that and prevent it by holding your karakas till they play their fatty...

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/kld/235.jpg

seems bad for this deck cuz of multiple reasons but i dont know your build...

1. empty board and it does nothing
2. if you have one other creature all they have to do is kill it and it remains useless
3. if you are far ahead it is amazing true but then you would win anyways
4. probably stronger in decks with good amount of 0 or 1 mana drops like affinity

[goblinmasterblaster]

Well since korstructure asked for a gp report I guess I'll give one. Ended up going 11-4 with this list that I copied from Sean Brown:

4 goblin rabblemaster
4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
4 sin prodder
4 thunderbreak regent

3 chandra, torch of defiance
4 fiery confluence
4 chalice of the void
3 chrome mox
3 trinisphere
4 blood moon

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
11 mountain

sideboard:
1 shattering pulse
3 phyrexian revoker
2 sudden shock
3 thorn of amethyst
1 koth of the hammer
3 leyline of the void
2 pyrokinesis

Tournament, sorry ahead of time for the lack of detail; I didn't keep good notes:

Round 1, Eldrazi, 2-1
I win the dice roll and keep a hand that goes turn 1 blood moon, into thunderbreak. Opponent scoops after thunderbreak. Game 2 my opponent is able to deploy mimics and endless ones through my moon. I try to stabilize but end up dying to the swarm of chumps. Game 3 I moon turn 1 and opponent dies to turn 2 rabblemaster.

Round 2, Eldrazi, 1-2
I keep a turn 1 blood moon hand, hoping it was good enough. She ends up going mimic, into mimic, into endless one and I die to the non-colorless eldrazi. Game 2 I blood moon her turn 1 and beat her down with random dudes. Game 3 she goes matter reshaper. I go blood moon. She then plays mimic and beats me down again with the smaller eldrazi.

Round 3, Belcher, 2-0
Game 1 I win the die roll and keep a turn 1 chalice hand. I play the chalice on 1 and it resolves. My opponent draws a card and then concedes game 1. I think at this point hes on delver so board in my creature removal. Game 2 he makes 12 goblins on turn 1. I go ancient tomb pass. He hits me for 12. I draw the mountain I need to play fiery confluence to clear the board and beat him down with sin prodders.

Round 4, Esper blade, 2-0
Game 1 I lose the die roll and keep a turn 1 blood moon hand. He goes blue fetch pass. I play blood moon and he responds with fetch basic island, brainstorm. The blood moon resolves and I pass turn. He plays some lands and eventually scopes to the first threat I play. One of the lands he ended up playing was a scrubland so I put him on stoneblade deck. Game 2 he is able to fetch a bunch of basics but ends up losing to chalice on 1 into dudes.

Round 5, U/R Delver, 2-1
This match was rough because it was against a good friend of mine, who I was rooming with at Louisville. We both knew what deck we were on, so I mulled accordingly, getting rid of my 7 which was a blood moon hand. Game 1 I kept playing threats which he kept bolting, until I played thunderbreak, which ended up getting there. Game 2 I was able to stabilize and he burned me out. Game 3 I keep a reasonable hand with turn 1 chalice. I play the chalice which resolves and start deploying threats. He ended up having a smash for my chalice and proceeded to kill my stuff, while beating down with delver. I end up stabilizing by going thunderbreak into thunderbreak and winning from there.

Round 6, Eldrazi, 2-0
This match I don't remember what happened. My life pad seems to indicate I locked him out while beating him down with stuff.

Round 7, Eldrazi, 2-1
Game 1 I keep a hand that was blood moon into rabblemaster which ended up being good enough. Game 2 I go turn 1 magus which immediately ate a dismember. I then die to smasher into smasher. Game 3 I play blood moon into revoker naming rachet bomb. I beat him down with revoker and kill him with a fiery confluence.

Round 8, Sneak and Show, 0-2
This round I end up getting paired against Andrew Boswell. I remember seeing him play delver on the Starcity stream so I keep a hand with turn 1 blood moon. He won the die roll and goes turn 1 fetch into basic island into ponder. At this point I knew I probably guessed wrong. I then lose to show and tell into griselbrand. Game 2 I keep a hand that goes city of traitors thorn into sin prodder. thorn ends up resolving but he ends up forcing my sin prodder. From that point I fail to draw anymore lands and die to an eventual sneak attack.

Round 9, Maverick, 2-0
Game 1 I win the die roll and keep a turn 1 blood moon hand. It ends up being enough. My opponent was kind enough to play his lands out so I was able to see that he was probably on some maverick variant. Game 2 he fetches up a basic forest before I blood moon him. He goes turn 2 scrib ranger into tireless tracker. I play a rabblemaster and we start trading damage. My opponent keeps playing lands and cracking his clues and tireless tracker started to become a problem so I started to chump. I eventually play thunderbreak into another rabblemaster and force him to trade his tracker and chump with the ranger.

Round 10, Deathblade, 2-1
Game 1 I win the die roll and keep my first turn 1 moon hand of the day. I play the moon out and it resolves. My opponent draws a card and we go to game 2. Without knowing what my opponent was on I end up boarding in my pyrokensis' and sudden shocks and board out my confluences. Game 2 he forces my first play. He then goes stoneforge, getting a sofi. I don't draw the removal for the stoneforge and he equips it and kills me. Game 3 I go turn 1 moon and it resolves and he concedes the match.

Round 11, Eldrazi, 1-2
Game 1 I go blood moon on the play and he proceeds to go eternal scourge into jitte. I wasn't able to deploy anything before the jitte equip so I concede the game to him. Game 2 I keep a hand without blood moon but has turn 2 thunderbreak into fiery confluence. This ends up being fast enough to race him. Game 3 he goes mimic and then I moon him. He plays eternal scourge into a 3 power endless one and kills me before I could set up a board presence.

Round 12, Mirror, 2-0
Game 1 I keep a turn 1 chalice hand on the play. My opponent simply smiles at the chalice and plays ancient tomb. He ends up deploying double ensnaring bridge and sits back with planeswalkers, stopping my thunderbreak from attacking. I end up drawing fiery confluence in time to kill both his bridges and kill his Koth off. Game 2 he puts a leyline of the void into play during pregame actions. I realize I'm under a clock now and try to beat him down as fast as I could. His helm ended up being 2 turns away, when I killed him.

Round 13, Mono Red Sneak, 2-1
Game 1 I go blood moon into thunderbreak, double fiery confluence. The blood moon luckily ended up slowing him 1 turn for me. Game 2 I keep a hand that went sin prodder into sin prodder into hopefully chandra. He ended up playing a sneak attack with no mana to activate it. He was at 8 life and I needed either to draw a red source to cast chandra for lethal, him to take at least 2 of a sin prodder or for me to draw a revoker for the sneak. None of these ended up happening, although my opponent almost gave me a chrome mox off of one of the prodder triggers but then thought better of it. Game 3 I think my opponent mulled to oblivion and I beat him down with rabblemaster.

Round 14, Death and taxes, 1-2
Game 1 I keep a turn 1 blood moon. He proceeded to play all plains and kill me with an army of white creatures. Game 2 I was able to play chalice on one and kill with thunderbreak and fiery confluence. Game 3 I keep a hand with revoker and chalice. He goes land vial. I play chalice on 1. He ticks vial up and passes. I play revoker naming vial. He plays seal of cleansing, kills my chalice and swords my revoker. He vials in stoneforge getting batterskull and I immediately shock it. I then play a rabblemaster which he answers with another swords. I then make mistake here by not playing the chalice I drew, and instead play another revoker. He has another swords for my revoker. He then plays recruiter, getting flickerwisps. He starts flickering recruiter finding more flickerwisps. While this is happening, I'm being caught off mana by double port. I end up drawing pyrokensis killing 3 flickerwisp and his recruiter in response to a flickerwisp trigger. He then deploys his batterskull. With his ports tapped I'm now able to fiery confluence killing his batterskull, and his vial. He then plays a land and cast serra avenger, with enough mana to have double port. At this point I'm at 3 life and my outs are another pyrokensis or a sol land so I can cast chandra to kill the angel. I draw neither and lose.

Round 15, miracles, 2-0
Game 1 I keep a turn 1 chalice hand on the play. I play chalice it gets forced. I then play thunderbreak and it gets forced. I then play rabblemaster on an empty board. He has a sword for the rabblemaster but is slowly getting beat down by a couple tokens. He eventually finds terminus. I deploy some more threats and beat him down. Game 2 I able to sneak a chalice for 1 on turn 1. I then cast chandra and chandra wins the game off the back of her +1.

All in all the deck was a blast to play. I get pretty lucky that my 8 moon.dec matched up pretty nicely vs my 5 eldrazi and 2 blade opponents.

[Controlmasterksa]

So sad report from the GP. On Friday, sat down for a GPT, was surrounded by 5 Death and Taxes decks. Lost, then lost to a Show and Tell deck. Next GPT used a list close to the general build (dragons and Sin Prodder), but lost again to a Nic Fit deck and my wife with Lands (built to take on Blood Moon and Back to Basics Miracles). Scouted the games and determined that too many decks were set to take on Blood Moon Miracles, or piloted Blood Moon themselves, as well as about 45% DnT in a 3 running GPTs. What I saw and played against pushed me to play stoneblade saterday (married to a magic player have to do what she says), did ok but lost to a rush of rogue decks.
To long story short, there was an abundance of DnT decks, not that many Miracles, and too many rogue decks (neither Tier1 or 2), making it rough to determine what the meta really was. What I got was the format isn't dead, better luck would have helped, and DnT decks wreck this one. But in all it was a fun weekend, Sunday played Dragons again and won a couple side events. The copter build is fun but a bit too gimmicky; the dragons worked a faster clock.

[korstructure]

GoblinMasterBlaster - Great report and great finish despite having no byes! I, too, am really close to the Sean Brown list. Any thoughts on changes you'd make to the deck?

Too bad two of your losses came to The Eldrazi Menace :(

And ControlMaster - sounds unlucky! I have sometimes made adjustments based on my grinder performances, too - and I often find that the grinder meta is nothing like the GP meta at-large.


Well since korstructure asked for a gp report I guess I'll give one. Ended up going 11-4 with this list that I copied from Sean Brown:

4 goblin rabblemaster
4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
4 sin prodder
4 thunderbreak regent

3 chandra, torch of defiance
4 fiery confluence
4 chalice of the void
3 chrome mox
3 trinisphere
4 blood moon

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
11 mountain

sideboard:
1 shattering pulse
3 phyrexian revoker
2 sudden shock
3 thorn of amethyst
1 koth of the hammer
3 leyline of the void
2 pyrokinesis

Tournament, sorry ahead of time for the lack of detail; I didn't keep good notes:

Round 1, Eldrazi, 2-1
I win the dice roll and keep a hand that goes turn 1 blood moon, into thunderbreak. Opponent scoops after thunderbreak. Game 2 my opponent is able to deploy mimics and endless ones through my moon. I try to stabilize but end up dying to the swarm of chumps. Game 3 I moon turn 1 and opponent dies to turn 2 rabblemaster.

Round 2, Eldrazi, 1-2
I keep a turn 1 blood moon hand, hoping it was good enough. She ends up going mimic, into mimic, into endless one and I die to the non-colorless eldrazi. Game 2 I blood moon her turn 1 and beat her down with random dudes. Game 3 she goes matter reshaper. I go blood moon. She then plays mimic and beats me down again with the smaller eldrazi.

Round 3, Belcher, 2-0
Game 1 I win the die roll and keep a turn 1 chalice hand. I play the chalice on 1 and it resolves. My opponent draws a card and then concedes game 1. I think at this point hes on delver so board in my creature removal. Game 2 he makes 12 goblins on turn 1. I go ancient tomb pass. He hits me for 12. I draw the mountain I need to play fiery confluence to clear the board and beat him down with sin prodders.

Round 4, Esper blade, 2-0
Game 1 I lose the die roll and keep a turn 1 blood moon hand. He goes blue fetch pass. I play blood moon and he responds with fetch basic island, brainstorm. The blood moon resolves and I pass turn. He plays some lands and eventually scopes to the first threat I play. One of the lands he ended up playing was a scrubland so I put him on stoneblade deck. Game 2 he is able to fetch a bunch of basics but ends up losing to chalice on 1 into dudes.

Round 5, U/R Delver, 2-1
This match was rough because it was against a good friend of mine, who I was rooming with at Louisville. We both knew what deck we were on, so I mulled accordingly, getting rid of my 7 which was a blood moon hand. Game 1 I kept playing threats which he kept bolting, until I played thunderbreak, which ended up getting there. Game 2 I was able to stabilize and he burned me out. Game 3 I keep a reasonable hand with turn 1 chalice. I play the chalice which resolves and start deploying threats. He ended up having a smash for my chalice and proceeded to kill my stuff, while beating down with delver. I end up stabilizing by going thunderbreak into thunderbreak and winning from there.

Round 6, Eldrazi, 2-0
This match I don't remember what happened. My life pad seems to indicate I locked him out while beating him down with stuff.

Round 7, Eldrazi, 2-1
Game 1 I keep a hand that was blood moon into rabblemaster which ended up being good enough. Game 2 I go turn 1 magus which immediately ate a dismember. I then die to smasher into smasher. Game 3 I play blood moon into revoker naming rachet bomb. I beat him down with revoker and kill him with a fiery confluence.

Round 8, Sneak and Show, 0-2
This round I end up getting paired against Andrew Boswell. I remember seeing him play delver on the Starcity stream so I keep a hand with turn 1 blood moon. He won the die roll and goes turn 1 fetch into basic island into ponder. At this point I knew I probably guessed wrong. I then lose to show and tell into griselbrand. Game 2 I keep a hand that goes city of traitors thorn into sin prodder. thorn ends up resolving but he ends up forcing my sin prodder. From that point I fail to draw anymore lands and die to an eventual sneak attack.

Round 9, Maverick, 2-0
Game 1 I win the die roll and keep a turn 1 blood moon hand. It ends up being enough. My opponent was kind enough to play his lands out so I was able to see that he was probably on some maverick variant. Game 2 he fetches up a basic forest before I blood moon him. He goes turn 2 scrib ranger into tireless tracker. I play a rabblemaster and we start trading damage. My opponent keeps playing lands and cracking his clues and tireless tracker started to become a problem so I started to chump. I eventually play thunderbreak into another rabblemaster and force him to trade his tracker and chump with the ranger.

Round 10, Deathblade, 2-1
Game 1 I win the die roll and keep my first turn 1 moon hand of the day. I play the moon out and it resolves. My opponent draws a card and we go to game 2. Without knowing what my opponent was on I end up boarding in my pyrokensis' and sudden shocks and board out my confluences. Game 2 he forces my first play. He then goes stoneforge, getting a sofi. I don't draw the removal for the stoneforge and he equips it and kills me. Game 3 I go turn 1 moon and it resolves and he concedes the match.

Round 11, Eldrazi, 1-2
Game 1 I go blood moon on the play and he proceeds to go eternal scourge into jitte. I wasn't able to deploy anything before the jitte equip so I concede the game to him. Game 2 I keep a hand without blood moon but has turn 2 thunderbreak into fiery confluence. This ends up being fast enough to race him. Game 3 he goes mimic and then I moon him. He plays eternal scourge into a 3 power endless one and kills me before I could set up a board presence.

Round 12, Mirror, 2-0
Game 1 I keep a turn 1 chalice hand on the play. My opponent simply smiles at the chalice and plays ancient tomb. He ends up deploying double ensnaring bridge and sits back with planeswalkers, stopping my thunderbreak from attacking. I end up drawing fiery confluence in time to kill both his bridges and kill his Koth off. Game 2 he puts a leyline of the void into play during pregame actions. I realize I'm under a clock now and try to beat him down as fast as I could. His helm ended up being 2 turns away, when I killed him.

Round 13, Mono Red Sneak, 2-1
Game 1 I go blood moon into thunderbreak, double fiery confluence. The blood moon luckily ended up slowing him 1 turn for me. Game 2 I keep a hand that went sin prodder into sin prodder into hopefully chandra. He ended up playing a sneak attack with no mana to activate it. He was at 8 life and I needed either to draw a red source to cast chandra for lethal, him to take at least 2 of a sin prodder or for me to draw a revoker for the sneak. None of these ended up happening, although my opponent almost gave me a chrome mox off of one of the prodder triggers but then thought better of it. Game 3 I think my opponent mulled to oblivion and I beat him down with rabblemaster.

Round 14, Death and taxes, 1-2
Game 1 I keep a turn 1 blood moon. He proceeded to play all plains and kill me with an army of white creatures. Game 2 I was able to play chalice on one and kill with thunderbreak and fiery confluence. Game 3 I keep a hand with revoker and chalice. He goes land vial. I play chalice on 1. He ticks vial up and passes. I play revoker naming vial. He plays seal of cleansing, kills my chalice and swords my revoker. He vials in stoneforge getting batterskull and I immediately shock it. I then play a rabblemaster which he answers with another swords. I then make mistake here by not playing the chalice I drew, and instead play another revoker. He has another swords for my revoker. He then plays recruiter, getting flickerwisps. He starts flickering recruiter finding more flickerwisps. While this is happening, I'm being caught off mana by double port. I end up drawing pyrokensis killing 3 flickerwisp and his recruiter in response to a flickerwisp trigger. He then deploys his batterskull. With his ports tapped I'm now able to fiery confluence killing his batterskull, and his vial. He then plays a land and cast serra avenger, with enough mana to have double port. At this point I'm at 3 life and my outs are another pyrokensis or a sol land so I can cast chandra to kill the angel. I draw neither and lose.

Round 15, miracles, 2-0
Game 1 I keep a turn 1 chalice hand on the play. I play chalice it gets forced. I then play thunderbreak and it gets forced. I then play rabblemaster on an empty board. He has a sword for the rabblemaster but is slowly getting beat down by a couple tokens. He eventually finds terminus. I deploy some more threats and beat him down. Game 2 I able to sneak a chalice for 1 on turn 1. I then cast chandra and chandra wins the game off the back of her +1.

All in all the deck was a blast to play. I get pretty lucky that my 8 moon.dec matched up pretty nicely vs my 5 eldrazi and 2 blade opponents.

[Octopusman]

Has anyone tried Pia without copters with bridges/Chandra, Torch?

[TLK]

Anyone see this list that 5-0 'd a League in late January? Looks so spicy.

4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Sin Prodder
3 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Blood Moon
11 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

4 Sulfur Elemental
4 Firebolt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void

[Ace/Homebrew]

Anyone see this list that 5-0 'd a League in late January? Looks so spicy.
Last night I 4-0'd my local with a similar-ish build after a month or so break from Legacy.

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Sin Prodder
1 Qal Sisma Behemoth
1 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
1 Pia Nalaar
1 Heart of Kiran
1 Smuggler's Copter
1 Magma Jet
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Thunderbreak Regent

Sideboard
4 Trinisphere
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Frenzied Fugue
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sudden Demise
2 Shattering Spree

R1 - MonoRed Sneak Attack, 2-1
R2 - Aggro Loam, 2-0
R3 - Miracles, 2-0
R4 - 4C Delver, 2-0

1-of Copter was good when I saw it against Miracles.
Ogre was a quick clock against Aggro Loam (and too big for him to kill with burn).
Chandra is real good.

Sin Prodder has been showing up more and more in lists these days.

Never got to use Kari Zev or Heart of Kiran.
Fugue was a 2-for-1 against Miracles. Opponent was at 4 life with a Clique on board. I had a goblin token and a Koth. I go to Fugue the Clique and he draws with Top in order to StP his own Clique. :tongue:

[TLK]

How'd you like only 1 Koth? It seems a big reason to play this deck is to land a 4-drop walker (Chandra/Koth) early.

[koten]

Is anyone here still on Moggcatcher? If so, if you don't mind sharing your list I would love to sleeve up an updated/tuned list and take it for a spin.

[Ace/Homebrew]

How'd you like only 1 Koth? It seems a big reason to play this deck is to land a 4-drop walker (Chandra/Koth) early.
Seemed fine! I'm not saying additional Koths are wrong, but he can't protect himself and I hate casting him onto a hostile board.

I think I'd have played at least 1 more Chandra if I had one.


Is anyone here still on Moggcatcher? If so, if you don't mind sharing your list I would love to sleeve up an updated/tuned list and take it for a spin.
No goblins have been printed in a while... so I'd imagine the updated list is still pretty close to what had been working.
Here's the most two recent goblin lists (November 2016) on TC Decks:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21623&iddeck=166056
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21608&iddeck=165868

[ZTurgeon]

Is anyone here still on Moggcatcher? If so, if you don't mind sharing your list I would love to sleeve up an updated/tuned list and take it for a spin.

Creature (24)
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Goblin Settler
2x Hanweir Garrison
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Moggcatcher
1x Murderous Redcap
2x Siege-Gang Commander
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Stingscourger

Land (20)
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain

Artifact (10)
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere

Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon

Sideboard (15)
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Null Rod
2x Pyrokinesis
3x Sulfur Elemental
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

[koten]

Thanks! When is Goblin Settler being tutored up for? I imagine Blood Moon is taking care of most problematic lands.

Edit: Looks like he combos with Kiki-Jiki to blow up all of their lands...

[ZTurgeon]

Thanks! When is Goblin Settler being tutored up for? I imagine Blood Moon is taking care of most problematic lands.

Edit: Looks like he combos with Kiki-Jiki to blow up all of their lands...

You don't kill problematic lands, as much as basic lands. One of the strengths of the Goblin version over the others is that you get to strangle opponents out of the game, where the other versions might die to some lucky topdecks. Things like aggressively targeting plains out of Miracles. Once they lose access to Entreat, or even better if you can just take them off white entirely, you have a real hard time losing.

[BR3N7]

I tried this a while ago and the deck just lost to itself to much. Was playing White Eldrazi for Thalias(since Thalia 2.0 came out) and that deck started to feel the same way. I would get ahead then have to depend on lack of card draw and top decks leading to loses. Well I think AIR Stompy is the most well primed right now(over Eldz/Soldiers etc..) as its able to have ways to maintain leads and solid comeback potential. The last 2 cards to enter the deck fixed 1/2 major issues with the deck with card draw in Sin/Chandra. The only flaw since I started reusing it has been the games where I have the win but lack the 4th land which is only real flaw left well that and blood moon or magus being dead.

Here is what I am running:

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
4 Thunderbreak Regent

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4 Fiery Confluence
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
2 Trinisphere
1 Magma Jet

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sudden Shock
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Flex Spot - Currently Shattering Pulse

I have considered cutting the 4th Regent for another Mountain and or moving the Trinispheres to the board for 1 more Magma Jet and 1 more Mountain to try and fix draws. Right now its not terrible but 1/12 games I find myself on the top deck a mana source to win.

Cards that I keep flipping on:

Ensnaring Bridge: Its good and I always make excuses to use it but I don't like it to much right now. If Show and Tell became overly huge again I would consider them but BR Rean is the most popular fatty deck and TNN isn't enough in the overall Meta to justify this right now I think.

4 Leyline OTV vs 3 Macabre and 1 more Flex Spot: If I need room for 1 more card like If I wanted to go with 2 Ensnaring Bridge I would switch back to Macabre and run 3.

Koth and Chandra: I hate Koth personally and Chandra at any less than 4 seems wrong as she is one the main reasons the deck can win more than it should now. She allows you take have 8 Removal Spells with the Confluence which should also be at 4 since at its worst its just a Ultimate Lava Axe. I have cut all Koths but again that 4th Regent could easily be the 1 Koth and that might still be correct. Also Chandra's Mana Ability helps to keep a lot as well as so many times you can play her than something else to protect her.

8th Moon Effect: I used 8 but kept running into 2 Blood Moons to often. Magus is ok in multiples but Blood sucks. I think 8 is fine but personally I like the 7.

Magma Jet vs Sudden Shock: Magma helps so much with the scry and Shock is well um good. Small thing to think about but on that list of tinker stuff. Currently on 1/2

Pyrokinesis vs Sudden Demise: Pyro is fucking good at what it does. I would not run 4 but not less than 3. In most matches where is good your usually able to hard cast it at one point. Demise when I cast always feels lackluster and Pyro leads to odd blowout kinda of plays since people play into it when your tapped out.

Right now the deck is good overall with only fatty decks being terrible matchups and of course TNN can be a pain. The deck got the needed tools in Prodder/Chandra since I last played it but it could use a upgrade to Regent. A Regent who can tap for Mana :).

[Quentin Coldman]

Yesterday I won local tournament with the following list:

//Lands
12 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors

//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Thopter Engineer
3 Pia Nalaar
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar

//Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Smuggler's Copter

//Other spells
4 Blood Moon
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Sudden Shock

//Sideboard
3 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Matchups:

2:0 vs Miracles
2:0 vs Punishing Zoo
2:1 vs Grixis Delver
2:0 vs BUG Deathshadow/Stiflenough
2:0 vs Infect

Deck performed really great, 8 Moons are just amazing in the current meta. Als Copter + Thopter Engineer is still extremly great and Chandra the red Jace is just a mustplay in Dragon Stompy. I also wouldn't go out with Bridges and Fiery Confluence in my sideboard, both cards just win games. I'll play the deck more often and see how it will perform at bigger tournaments. Anyone else here playing Copterlist?

[CovenantElite30]

Yesterday I won local tournament with the following list:

//Lands
12 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors

//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Thopter Engineer
3 Pia Nalaar
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar

//Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Smuggler's Copter

//Other spells
4 Blood Moon
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Sudden Shock

//Sideboard
3 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Matchups:

2:0 vs Miracles
2:0 vs Punishing Zoo
2:1 vs Grixis Delver
2:0 vs BUG Deathshadow/Stiflenough
2:0 vs Infect

Deck performed really great, 8 Moons are just amazing in the current meta. Als Copter + Thopter Engineer is still extremly great and Chandra the red Jace is just a mustplay in Dragon Stompy. I also wouldn't go out with Bridges and Fiery Confluence in my sideboard, both cards just win games. I'll play the deck more often and see how it will perform at bigger tournaments. Anyone else here playing Copterlist?
Anyone try this list out yet?

[BR3N7]

Anyone try this list out yet?

Yes and Smugglers are great when its great and terrible when its bad. His deck would be better if Pia's were not Legendary and currently I am somewhere in the middle of the of both.

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
1 Pia Nalaar
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Quicksmith Rebel

3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

2 Trinisphere
2 Sudden Shock
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Sudden Demise
1 Pyrokinesis
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Chaos Warp
2 Pyroblast

Prodder is better than Copter and Pia's are great but I can't see running more than 1 each. Quicksmith Rebel has been nice as its usually just a Flametongue Kavu but also can also just win games. I do like Revokers in the main a lot more than Trinispheres especiallty with the Rebels and Pia package.

My SB feels correct and I don't want to change anything. Ensnaring Bridge is that card I keep tinkering with wanting to add and if I would add 1 it would be as a haymaker but outside of TNN really creatures are not that big of a deal and sneak/show is already a bad matchup so i would rather just bring in the pyros and thorns to just gain time and they are more genially good like thorn helps a lot vs a deck like burn. Chaos Warp is underplayed in this and I see why people would not like it but its ability to be our only viable disenchant option and is never dead as I have enough games with a shuffle of my deck into a creature or Chandra.

[Sergi]

Yes and Smugglers are great when its great and terrible when its bad. His deck would be better if Pia's were not Legendary and currently I am somewhere in the middle of the of both.

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
1 Pia Nalaar
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Quicksmith Rebel

3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

2 Trinisphere
2 Sudden Shock
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Sudden Demise
1 Pyrokinesis
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Chaos Warp
2 Pyroblast

Prodder is better than Copter and Pia's are great but I can't see running more than 1 each. Quicksmith Rebel has been nice as its usually just a Flametongue Kavu but also can also just win games. I do like Revokers in the main a lot more than Trinispheres especiallty with the Rebels and Pia package.

My SB feels correct and I don't want to change anything. Ensnaring Bridge is that card I keep tinkering with wanting to add and if I would add 1 it would be as a haymaker but outside of TNN really creatures are not that big of a deal and sneak/show is already a bad matchup so i would rather just bring in the pyros and thorns to just gain time and they are more genially good like thorn helps a lot vs a deck like burn. Chaos Warp is underplayed in this and I see why people would not like it but its ability to be our only viable disenchant option and is never dead as I have enough games with a shuffle of my deck into a creature or Chandra.


Currently I'm testing 2 Everlasting Torment against TNN decks (paired with MD fiery confluence).
At worst helps me cast dismember via chrome mox avoiding 2 damange.

[Wichtelman]

Currently I'm testing 2 Everlasting Torment against TNN decks (paired with MD fiery confluence).
At worst helps me cast dismember via chrome mox avoiding 2 damange.

hm why no sword of fire and ice or sword of body and mind to push your creatures instead?
ensnaring bridge is another option vs tnn as already said...

everlasting torment seems bad even in modern burn vs lifegain or protection...

[jandax]

4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
9 mountain
3 cavern
4ssg
4 chrome mox
4 moon
4 magus
4 rabble master
4 moggcatcher
1 kiki
2 sgc
1 settler
1 stingscourger
2 chandra
2 feiry confluence

///
4 bridge
3 macabre
2 boil
2 sudden demise
2 anarchy
1 chandra
1 sharpshooter

Played this list at the sunday legacy battle at GP utrecht 3-1 losing to burn nut draws in the last round. Played bug lands, seismic lands, infect and burn. Lost to burn despite landing chalice on 1 and 2 in one game and sulfuric vortex in the other. Over all the deck did well, it seemed well positioned given that the tournament was well balanced regarding deck variation. Playing for 4-0, we were the only mono colored decks with dnt undefeated as well

[BR3N7]

hm why no sword of fire and ice or sword of body and mind to push your creatures instead?
ensnaring bridge is another option vs tnn as already said...

everlasting torment seems bad even in modern burn vs lifegain or protection...

Outside of Fish most of the TNN decks are very bad vs blood moon.
The 2 pyroblast I have been using have been just fine to help.

So finally decided to play on MTGO again about 2 weeks ago and here are some general notes.... I have a very good winning % vs all decks not named Burn which I am 0-15 against. This match up might be a 0.25/9.75 match up. Of the 15 loses 9 have been 1-2 but this really is close unwinnable and this will single handily detour me from playing Leagues as the consistency will impossible to make it a free roll because so burn is so popular. The more budget the deck the worse it is to. Seriously this really sucks.

Here is what I am on:

2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
1 Pia Nalaar
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Quicksmith Rebel

3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Sudden Demise
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Chaos Warp

2 still figuring out
Currently I am working on the board as I have made a pretty detailed out for the top 30 decks and am working on what I need the most for the last slots.

The deck really needs a 4 drop but quicksmith has been serviceable along with Pia and Kiran.

[Wichtelman]

Outside of Fish most of the TNN decks are very bad vs blood moon.
The 2 pyroblast I have been using have been just fine to help.

So finally decided to play on MTGO again about 2 weeks ago and here are some general notes.... I have a very good winning % vs all decks not named Burn which I am 0-15 against. This match up might be a 0.25/9.75 match up. Of the 15 loses 9 have been 1-2 but this really is close unwinnable and this will single handily detour me from playing Leagues as the consistency will impossible to make it a free roll because so burn is so popular. The more budget the deck the worse it is to. Seriously this really sucks.

well talked about equipments vs everlasting torment but as you said pyroblast should be fine + can be boarded vs show and tell and your list is more controlish...

hm ya this deck is a meta deck and has to adjust to be most effective... my version wrecks burn pretty hard cuz of the creature mix and md jitte...
do you really think you need more 4 drops?
seems cluncky...

[TLK]

Quick (maybe stupid) question: Why is it that a lot of the 5-0 lists on MTGO use Snow-Covered Mountains instead of regular ones? Is there a benefit to this? Is it just a stylistic preference? Always wondered that.

[biglongjohns]

Just played Dragon Stompy to a 5-2 performance for 14th place out of 80 people. Here is a link to the tournament report for anyone interested: Freebirds MtG (https://freebirdsmtg.com/)

[TLK]

Just played Dragon Stompy to a 5-2 performance for 14th place out of 80 people. Here is a link to the tournament report for anyone interested: Freebirds MtG (https://freebirdsmtg.com/)

Nicely done. Love the writeup. Is there a link to KeeperX's writeup?

[biglongjohns]

Nicely done. Love the writeup. Is there a link to KeeperX's writeup?
Thanks! Yea the article is linked in my tournament report but here it is for everyone's convenience.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/5uoxf8/200_matches_with_dragon_stompy_my_experiences_and/

[CovenantElite30]

Just played Dragon Stompy to a 5-2 performance for 14th place out of 80 people. Here is a link to the tournament report for anyone interested: Freebirds MtG (https://freebirdsmtg.com/)
Great write-up, question for you. Why Stormbreath Dragon over Thunderbreak?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[biglongjohns]

Great write-up, question for you. Why Stormbreath Dragon over Thunderbreak?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

bahaha...because I get a lot of those 4-5 drop dragons confused. I actually did play Thunderbreak Regent and that should be fixed now on the site.

[CovenantElite30]

bahaha...because I get a lot of those 4-5 drop dragons confused. I actually did play Thunderbreak Regent and that should be fixed now on the site.

Any thoughts on playing pia and kiran Nalaar over Thunderbreak Regent? Maybe play 2 pia and kiran Nalaar and 1 trinisphere?

[biglongjohns]

Any thoughts on playing pia and kiran Nalaar over Thunderbreak Regent? Maybe play 2 pia and kiran Nalaar and 1 trinisphere?

That's one card I've seen people testing that I haven't tried yet. It seems a little slow, but worth a shot especially since it can do work behind a bridge. If I were to add in Pia and Kiran I would either play two and then a third Trinisphere or I have even seen somebody test a one-of Collective Defiance which seems pretty sweet. It could act as a fifth pseudo-Confluence or another form of card draw later in the game when you draw into Chrome Moxes that you do not need.

[BR3N7]

Any thoughts on playing pia and kiran Nalaar over Thunderbreak Regent? Maybe play 2 pia and kiran Nalaar and 1 trinisphere?

I was using Pia and Kiran and Quicksmith Rebel up until 2 days ago and I just went back to a more streamlined version. My winning % reflected it was a positive change. Regent is the best 4 drop and hopefully one day we will get a great 4 drop. Seriously I went full circle over the last month and am back at what I first was playing before toying around.

Have some events over the next 2 weeks and here is what I will be playing with zero changes.

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thunderbreak Regent

1 Rolling Earthquake
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon

3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Dragon's Claws
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Revoker

[Karhumies]

Went 4-0 in local 9 player tournament today with this dragonless list:

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker (had only 3 Magus)
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Quicksmith Rebel (got 0 Thunderbreak Regent and decided that any Nalaars are just much worse than Rabblemaster or Rebel)

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Starstorm (had only 3 Fiery Confluence)
4 Blood Moon

3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
3 Sulfur Elemental
1 Pyrokinesis
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Chaos Warp

R1 vs Shardless BUG, win coin flip, win 2-0 with g1 t1 magus and g2 quick moon effect + Chandra
R2 vs Infect, win coin flip, win 2-1 with g1 t1 moon effect, g3 opponent mulls to 5 and I get t1 moon effect
R3 vs Charbelcher, lose coin flip, win 2-1 with t1 Trinisphere g2 and t1 Revoker in g3
R4 vs Grixis delver, lose coin flip, win 2-1 with g1 Moon effects, g3 Chandra and Chalice 1

Thoughts:
+ Chandra and Sin Prodder were awesome.
+ md Trinisphere was awesome.
+ SB Pyrokinesis was awesome. There should be 2-3 in the sb.
+ 11th Mountain was awesome.
+/- Revoker was awesome, but I would prefer it as 1-2of in the sb. Should be upgraded to 4th Magus MD.
+/- Quicksmith Rebel was OK but I would prefer it as 0-1 of md.
+/- I did occasionally draw into double Chandra, but playing the second one to get rid of the first or pitching one to mox always felt ok.
- Starstorm was used only for cycling and pitching to Mox. Should be upgraded to 4th Confluence or Rolling Earthquake md. Probably Earthquake for 1-outer vs t1 goblin token swarm.
- I never casted any pyroblasts before getting the Chandra emblem, at which point they were not relevant anymore.
- I never wanted to cast Ensnaring Bridge even after drawing them.
- I dodged reanimator MU so never boarded in macabres.
- I dodged D&T MU so never boarded in Sulfur Elemental. 3 slots seems too much.

Potential md filler card: 1-2 Manamorphose. This would "thin the deck" and allow us to turn a colorless mana from Tomb/City into a red mana.

Would probably want to run something like this:
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Rolling Earthquake or 4th Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon
3 Flex slots: Any split of Manamorphose, Tsabo's Web, cmc4 creature(s) of choice (0-1 Quicksmith Rebel) and 3rd Trinisphere.

2 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

SB
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Flex slots:
2nd Phyrexian Revoker or Ensnaring Bridge or Winter Orb or 3rd Faerie Macabre or Chaos Warp or Sudden Demise or Aftershock or 3rd Pyrokinesis or Ratchet Bomb or Umezawa's Jitte or Ricochet Trap or Stingscourger or Goblin Sharpshooter or Confusion in the Ranks or Dragon's Claw or Ali from Cairo or Fortune Thief

[BR3N7]

Have some events over the next 2 weeks and here is what I will be playing with zero changes.

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thunderbreak Regent

1 Rolling Earthquake
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon

3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Dragon's Claws
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Revoker

Did change the 2 Dragons Claws back to Thorn and Revoker. I am debating going up on Sulfur Elementals as its so universally good at the very least just being semi uncounterable.
Went 4-0 today.

Round 1: Elves - 2-1
Round 2: Maverick - 2-1 (mull to 3 and almost won the loss)
Round 3: Miracles - 2-0
Round 4: Bug Delver - 2-1 (lose game 1 on draw to turn 1 delver and had 3 turns at one point and hit lands)

General notes: 3 different times today I drew 5 straight lands/Mox+ *won 1 of those vs Miracles and others were loses* very bad variance.
Rolling Earthquake is boss.
Online win % has been very high as well.
Only change I would consider would be -1 Thorn for +1 Sulfur but really not sure its needed and not going to change yet but Sulfur been so good way to many times to count.
Thundebreak is also very good and the prerelease promo is sexy but no where as sexy as Prodder if that means anything :).

[CovenantElite30]

I may be playing this deck at the SCG Open in Mass in April. What do you guys think as far as paper meta for this deck?

Should I play dragons in main or something else?

I expect to see a lot of reanimater.

[Karhumies]

I may be playing this deck at the SCG Open in Mass in April. What do you guys think as far as paper meta for this deck?

Should I play dragons in main or something else?

I expect to see a lot of reanimater.

Paper meta:
- The recent rise in BUG popularity (delver, shardless and non-delver non-shardless midrange) benefits this deck greatly.
- Fast combo decks can be difficult to deal with if you lose the coin flip. Rolling Earthquake randomly helps against tokens. Additionally, the more Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst and Phyrexian Revoker (naming e.g. Goblin Charbelcher, Sneak Attack or Griselbrand) you run in the 75, the better those MUs become.
- Death & Taxes can be a grindy and difficult MU. The more Sulfur Elemental and Pyrokinesis you can afford to run in your 75, the better.
- Faerie Macabre is your best card against Br Reanimator.

Dragons vs. something else: Personally, those 3 flex slots we have in the MD do not make a huge difference in most cases. Preferably, you would run either a win con which survives Lightning Bolt (e.g. Thunderbreak Regent, Hanweir Watchkeep, Stormbreath Dragon), card advantage generators (e.g. Quicksmith Rebel) or a card which either replaces itself or filters (e.g. Smuggler's Copter, Manamorphose, Tsabo's Web).

For corner case scenarios:
- Thunderbreak Regent, Quicksmith Rebel and Stormbreath Dragon deal with an opposing delver
- Thunderbreak Regent, Quicksmith Rebel and Stormbreath Dragon can win through a Moat
- Thunderbreak regent and Quicksmith Rebel can win through Maze of Ith
- Stormbreath Dragon can attack through D&T and angel tokens
- Thunderbreak Regent, Stormbreath Dragon and Hanweir Watchkeep survive a Lightning Bolt

[CovenantElite30]

Paper meta:
- The recent rise in BUG popularity (delver, shardless and non-delver non-shardless midrange) benefits this deck greatly.
- Fast combo decks can be difficult to deal with if you lose the coin flip. Rolling Earthquake randomly helps against tokens. Additionally, the more Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst and Phyrexian Revoker (naming e.g. Goblin Charbelcher, Sneak Attack or Griselbrand) you run in the 75, the better those MUs become.
- Death & Taxes can be a grindy and difficult MU. The more Sulfur Elemental and Pyrokinesis you can afford to run in your 75, the better.
- Faerie Macabre is your best card against Br Reanimator.

Dragons vs. something else: Personally, those 3 flex slots we have in the MD do not make a huge difference in most cases. Preferably, you would run either a win con which survives Lightning Bolt (e.g. Thunderbreak Regent, Hanweir Watchkeep, Stormbreath Dragon), card advantage generators (e.g. Quicksmith Rebel) or a card which either replaces itself or filters (e.g. Smuggler's Copter, Manamorphose, Tsabo's Web).

For corner case scenarios:
- Thunderbreak Regent, Quicksmith Rebel and Stormbreath Dragon deal with an opposing delver
- Thunderbreak Regent, Quicksmith Rebel and Stormbreath Dragon can win through a Moat
- Thunderbreak regent and Quicksmith Rebel can win through Maze of Ith
- Stormbreath Dragon can attack through D&T and angel tokens
- Thunderbreak Regent, Stormbreath Dragon and Hanweir Watchkeep survive a Lightning Bolt


Great summary. I haven't seen anyone play Hanweir Watchkeep but it definitely looks interesting. The more recent lists I've seen online haven't being playing Thunderbreak Regent. I'm not sure if I agree with this but they seem to be having success. But again Quicksmith Rebel seems enticing if your playing main deck trinisphere.

[TLK]

Won my weekly event with KeeperX's list from the previous page.

Round 1 vs Merfolk:

Lots of dead cards in my deck (8 moons) but I manage to get there with Sin Prodder and Regent flying over his threats.

2-0, 1-0

Round 2 vs Elves:

Game 1 I land a turn 1 moon effect, followed by a Rabblemaster. He's forced to chump with Deathrite Shaman, which effectively locks him out of green mana. Game 2 I durdle too much and get overwhelmed by Elves. Abrupt Decay was a beating. Game 3 I land an early Chalice on 1, followed by double moon and eventually Chandra emblem him to death.

2-1, 2-0

Round 3 ID to split prize

Deck seems great. Turn 1 Chalice/Moon/Trinisphere just gives you so many free wins. Chandra is amazing, and Sin Prodder worked well as a poor man's Dark Confidant. Menace was actually very relevant.

[Karhumies]

Great summary. I haven't seen anyone play Hanweir Watchkeep but it definitely looks interesting. The more recent lists I've seen online haven't being playing Thunderbreak Regent. I'm not sure if I agree with this but they seem to be having success. But again Quicksmith Rebel seems enticing if your playing main deck trinisphere.

Hanweir Watchkeep used to be a md staple in Werewolf Stompy:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-werewolf-stompy-legacy

Moggcatcher + md Kiki-Jiki + md Goblin Settler + sb Goblin Sharpshooter toolbox engine would turn us into Goblin Stompy:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/246197#online

Qal Sisma Behemoth and Koth of the Hammer are old-school / niche options into last md flex slots.


Basically, Fiery Confluence, Sin Prodder and the new Chandra are so good that there is no longer "Dragon Stompy", "Goblin Stompy" or "Werewolf Stompy" with distinctive, slightly synergous but nevertheless awkward creature packages. All of those lists pretty much tossed out 10-12 of their weakest cards for 3-4 Confluence, 3-4 Chandra and 4 Prodder to become a homogenous "monored stompy" decklist. Compared to the decklist differences of the past, choosing Thunderbreak Regent vs. Smuggler's Copter vs. Quicksmith Rebel vs. whatever filler card does not essentially make much of a difference. We are all essentially playing the same 52-56 cards list md now. IMO, you could even smuggle in a couple Phyrexian Revoker into those couple last md slots (naming g1 DRS, Vial, LED, Stoneforge Mystic, Mother of Runes, Sensei's Divining Top) to gain more sb slots and still be equally successful with the deck performance.

[BR3N7]

Basically, Fiery Confluence, Sin Prodder and the new Chandra are so good that there is no longer "Dragon Stompy", "Goblin Stompy" or "Werewolf Stompy" with distinctive, slightly synergous but nevertheless awkward creature packages. All of those lists pretty much tossed out 10-12 of their weakest cards for 3-4 Confluence, 3-4 Chandra and 4 Prodder to become a homogenous "monored stompy" decklist. Compared to the decklist differences of the past, choosing Thunderbreak Regent vs. Smuggler's Copter vs. Quicksmith Rebel vs. whatever filler card does not essentially make much of a difference. We are all essentially playing the same 52-56 cards list md now. IMO, you could even smuggle in a couple Phyrexian Revoker into those couple last md slots (naming g1 DRS, Vial, LED, Stoneforge Mystic, Mother of Runes, Sensei's Divining Top) to gain more sb slots and still be equally successful with the deck performance.

This is the great part I have said a few times other places. The deck is like 50 cards locked in and the other 10 are preference and same with the sideboard. This is great for overall deck development. Also this is making weekly placings at many events and rightfully so. I have also said that Eldrazi is a 2016 model of Chalice and this is the 2017 model because it can steal games and still win as consistently as the Draz.


The more recent lists I've seen online haven't being playing Thunderbreak Regent. I'm not sure if I agree with this but they seem to be having success. But again Quicksmith Rebel seems enticing if your playing main deck trinisphere.

This is subjective 100%. I play on MTGO but not leagues because Burn is such a bad matchup and you see most of them having to run 4 anti-burn cards and its for that reason.

I like Quicksmith and Regent.
I just like Regent slightly better right now personally.

[CovenantElite30]

This is the great part I have said a few times other places. The deck is like 50 cards locked in and the other 10 are preference and same with the sideboard. This is great for overall deck development. Also this is making weekly placings at many events and rightfully so. I have also said that Eldrazi is a 2016 model of Chalice and this is the 2017 model because it can steal games and still win as consistently as the Draz.



This is subjective 100%. I play on MTGO but not leagues because Burn is such a bad matchup and you see most of them having to run 4 anti-burn cards and its for that reason.

I like Quicksmith and Regent.
I just like Regent slightly better right now personally.

I agree with all the delver running around now have the flyer is really nice.

What's your opinion on why people have stopped playing Cavern of Souls?

Granted my version of the deck was playing more humans. But still getting a uncounterable blood out seems to be good?

[Karhumies]

What's your opinion on why people have stopped playing Cavern of Souls?

- Getting RR for Chandra and Fiery Confluence, which are some of the best cards in our deck now
- Devil Sin Prodder, Goblin Rabblemaster, Simian Spirit Guide (yes we do hardcast the ape quite often), Human Magus of the Moon, Dragon Thunderbreak Regent. Sol land + Cavern opening hand (2 lands total) is much more awakward than Sol land + Mountain. Uncounterable Magus is probably the best use for Cavern, but if the opponent Lightning Bolts it down, we might be left with triple colorless mana instead of 2R and no more humans.

[Karhumies]

Btw, if someone wants to experiment with a "light goblins package" in the MD flex slots, you could try:
2x Moggcatcher
1x Kiki-Jiki
1x Goblin Settler

T1-2: Durdle with Chalice, Moon, Trinisphere, Sol lands
T3: Play Moggcatcher
T4: Moggcatcher gets Goblin Settler to blow up a basic land
T5: Moggcatcher gets Kiki-Jiki, Kiki-Jiki makes a copy of Goblin Settler to blow up a basic land
T6+: Kiki-Jiki makes a copy of Goblin Settler to blow up a basic land, Moggcatcher gets a Rabblemaster

+ Goblin Settler is excellent at color screwing and mana denial in combination with Moon effects and Trinisphere
+ Kiki-Jiki has multiple uses, e.g. copying Sin Prodder in opponent's end step to get an extra upkeep "draw"
+ Moggcatcher allows us to run niche/toolbox options in the 75, like Goblin Sharpshooter, Tuk-tuk Scrapper and Stingscourger
+ Unanswered Moggcatcher can snowball the game for us

- 2RRR Kiki-Jiki can be problematic to hard cast
- Kiki-Jiki is useless into an empty board
- The goblin package does not deal with opposing flyers or Moat
- Moggcatcher can be shut down by Lightning Bolt ( Thunderbreak Regent is not)
- Moggcatcher can be shut down by Phyrexian Revoker (Thunderbreak Regent is not)
- Drawing into multiple Moggcatchers can be bad because they take up 3 mana to activate

[LeoCop 90]

I agree that chandra and fiery confluence are amazing and everyone should be playing at least 3 of each between main and sideboard.

I don't agree that much about sin prodder. I mean, it's a good card, but not a staple in my opinion, and i personally prefer hanweir garrison, for the simple fact that garrison is like rabblemaster: he has to be answered immediately or you will bury opponents with tokens. Sin prodder is not a must answer, they can afford to leave him on the battlefield for a couple turns. Menace is relevant, but so is being an x/2 rather than an x/3 when you face punishing fire.

I am also a big fan of pia and kiran. They help stabilize if you're behind, they can kill creatures or shoot irrelevant artifacts to the face. I don't know if they're better than thunderbreak, but since i play ensnaring bridge they definitely belong in my list. I'm quite sure they're better than quicksmith rebel, though.

[Karhumies]

Menace is relevant, but so is being an x/2 rather than an x/3 when you face punishing fire.

I am also a big fan of pia and kiran. They help stabilize if you're behind, they can kill creatures or shoot irrelevant artifacts to the face. I don't know if they're better than thunderbreak, but since i play ensnaring bridge they definitely belong in my list. I'm quite sure they're better than quicksmith rebel, though.

I have personally faced 0 Punishing Fire decks within the past 5 years in my paper metagame, so I am biased in my x/2 preference.

My personal dislike with Pia and Kiran is that typically, you won't have the activation mana the turn you play it (whereas Quicksmith Rebel activates an artifact immediately), and spending the activation mana on future turns slows down the development of the board by having less mana for playing all the extra cards drawn from Sin Prodder triggers. For three mana, you could be tutoring Goblin Rabblemasters with Moggcatchers instead of sacrificing your permanents. Again, the x/2 of Quicksmith has never been a relevant downside for me and I am typically not running Ensnaring Bridge, so I am biased here.

[CovenantElite30]

I have personally faced 0 Punishing Fire decks within the past 5 years in my paper metagame, so I am biased in my x/2 preference.

My personal dislike with Pia and Kiran is that typically, you won't have the activation mana the turn you play it (whereas Quicksmith Rebel activates an artifact immediately), and spending the activation mana on future turns slows down the development of the board by having less mana for playing all the extra cards drawn from Sin Prodder triggers. For three mana, you could be tutoring Goblin Rabblemasters with Moggcatchers instead of sacrificing your permanents. Again, the x/2 of Quicksmith has never been a relevant downside for me and I am typically not running Ensnaring Bridge, so I am biased here.

In my list from last year I was playing hanweir garrison over Sin Prodder and using Smuggler's Copter for card advantage.

This was good with cavern because I had 8 humans in the deck which made it worth running. hanweir garrison blocks a of creatures surprisingly.

I haven't been testing much playing Sin Prodder over hanweir garrison, but I get the idea.

[Karhumies]

hanweir garrison blocks a of creatures surprisingly.

I get that Hanweir Garrison & Pia and Kiran Nalaar act as defensive walls to slow down the opponent, aiming to turn the game into a long one. This has nice synergy with using Chandra to grind out a slow yet unevitable win.

Sin Prodder is the exact opposite, wanting the game to go short by pressuring the opponent with upkeep trigger damage + Menace combat damage. If you manage to start off the game with T1 Moon effect or Trinisphere, T2 Sin Prodder, the opponent will have an extremely difficult time to find answers to the Moon effect or Trinisphere in time before becoming killed or buried with card advantage from Sin Prodder.

[TMPWDobs]

Think new Chandra is very good in deck. Here are 2 different builds that recently went 5-0 in leagues online https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/583826#online and https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/583818#online

[CovenantElite30]

Question to the group. What are the most difficult matchups for this deck and should you pack sideboard hate for it or ignore the matchup? I was thinking burn and show N tell are probably the two worst. Reanimator is probably a close 3rd. I know I run 4 Leyline for the reanimator matchup and I run 2 Ashen Ride for the show N tell matchup. But burn I just hope I get a chalice out with a Trinisphere and hope for the best.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Karhumies]

Question to the group. What are the most difficult matchups for this deck and should you pack sideboard hate for it or ignore the matchup? I was thinking burn and show N tell are probably the two worst. Reanimator is probably a close 3rd.

Burn, Merfolk, super fast combo decks (Belcher, Oops, T1 Reanimator / Tin Fins), any budget deck operating with basic lands (e.g. monoblue delver), Elves. Burn, Merfolk and monocolored budget decks I choose to ignore. Against super fast combo decks, I hope to win the coin flip and have Phyrexian Revoker + Thorn of Amethyst + Fearie Macabre SB. Elves MU will depend on whether they run Natural Order or not, and how much SB space you want to allocate.

[Mafu13]

Quick and Small Tournie report:


Round 1: Burn 0-2

RIP me, drew no chalices or Trini and had an Ancient Tomb both games. It is what it is.


Round 2: ANT Storm 2-0

Kept a hand of 3 lands, Trinisphere and 2 Blood Moons. He G Probes Into Cabal naming Blood moon because he only had duel lands in hand. He lost to Trinisphere. Game 2, Leyline. I get Duress'd, but he can't take the magus ;). Turn 1 Magus, his only land was Bayou. This feels like a decent match up most of the time, but i guess they can take your lock piece and just go off.


Round 3: Mentor Miracles 2-0

He was fairly new and was borrowing the deck off a friend. He lost game 1 to a Turn 1 chalice as he had a hand of one drops. Game 2 was more drawn out, but he made a few errors such as forgetting he could hard cast FoW my only threat, and he kept brainstorming with JTMS while my hand was empty. Beats eventually got there.


Round 4: DnT 2-1

A matchup I had been wanting to avoid all day. Game 1 he does his thing and I just cant keep up. Game 2, I get a fast start with Sulfur Elementals and Sin Prodders and overwhelm him with board presence. Game 3 was the intense match. I only own 1 Ensnaring Bridge, and I drew it at a really good time. It stalled the game out for a long time, and I was slowly stacking up Sulfurs and Prodders. The one of Quicksmith Rebel I was trying out did so much work, as I slowly pinged him down behind my bridge with my chalice. At one point he played a Revoker naming Chalice of the Void, but I soon found a sudden shock to keep the pings going. He managed to not draw Recruiter of the Guard or Flicker wisp, which was very good for me. I will now definitely be buying more Bridges for future games.


Overall decent result, ended 3rd because someone drew their match. Played the current standard list, but instead of x3 Thunderbreak Regent, I was trying x1 Pia and Kiran, 1x Quicksmith Rebel, and a 3rd Trinisphere. Make me think we should stop calling it Dragon Stompy? Maybe 8 Moon. But until then, Dragon Stompy is an awesome deck right now and I'm having great fun with it.

[ZTurgeon]

Burn, Merfolk, super fast combo decks (Belcher, Oops, T1 Reanimator / Tin Fins), any budget deck operating with basic lands (e.g. monoblue delver), Elves. Burn, Merfolk and monocolored budget decks I choose to ignore. Against super fast combo decks, I hope to win the coin flip and have Phyrexian Revoker + Thorn of Amethyst + Fearie Macabre SB. Elves MU will depend on whether they run Natural Order or not, and how much SB space you want to allocate.

Elves is one of the easier matchups. They do not like playing the game under chalice, moon, magus, or trinisphere. Additionally, the beatdown versions have 4 firey confluence that they can't ever beat, and the goblin versions can constantly pick off guys once the ball gets rolling. They also don't like getting caught behind an ensnaring bridge.

[CovenantElite30]

Elves is one of the easier matchups. They do not like playing the game under chalice, moon, magus, or trinisphere. Additionally, the beatdown versions have 4 firey confluence that they can't ever beat, and the goblin versions can constantly pick off guys once the ball gets rolling. They also don't like getting caught behind an ensnaring bridge.
What do you think is the correct number of bridges in the sideboard? I play 2 currently.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Karhumies]

Elves is one of the easier matchups. They do not like playing the game under chalice, moon, magus, or trinisphere. Additionally, the beatdown versions have 4 firey confluence that they can't ever beat, and the goblin versions can constantly pick off guys once the ball gets rolling. They also don't like getting caught behind an ensnaring bridge.

Budget manabase basic forest elves is a worse MU than "real elves". Most elves players I have run into have been running budget elves as a cheap entry deck into Legacy. Budget players tend to be bad MUs for us in general: budget burn, budget basic forest elves, budget mono u delver. I used to play old school goblin stompy back when elves were maindecking Progenitus as their MD NO target. I guess the old school elf lists were actually worse maychups for us than what Elves are currently running.

Nevertheless, NO elves can even nowadays win the coin flip, t1 fetch basic forest into mana dork, t3 NO. We have very few cards in the 75 which affect this plan at all in time, meaning t1-t2 when they are on the play. Ensnaring Bridge is our out against NO fatty until they can find a Reclamation Sage.

[Sergi]

Last weekend I ended 10th (4-2) in a 53 ppl event with the following list:

10th - Dragon Stompy

Maindeck:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Sin Prodder
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Fiery Confluence
2 Stone Rain
2 Trinisphere

Sideboard:
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Dead // Gone
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Everlasting Torment
1 Mortarpod
1 Orbs of Warding
1 Tormod's Crypt

My wins were: ANT, 2 sneak and show and Burn.
My losses were: Maverick and Shardless BUG

Regarding Sideborard: Mortapod and Everlasting torment are under testing. Mortapod will be out for sure. Another Tormod's will be added just to fight knights of the reliquary and tarmogoyfs. Orbs of warding are good against storm and burn (also have uses against elemental tokens, empty the warrens tokens ) I don't have a lot of time to test so I test some fringe (2) slots in real tournament.

Regarding MD: Was my first time with Sin Prodder and didn't convinced me at all. Our Maindeck CMC average is 1,95 (26 cards with CMC=0) this means few damage in average and if we land prodder early, opponent will cause us issues with mana (happened against Maverick) Also Gaddock + thalia + sactum prelate at 3 were a nightmare. Against BUG Tarmogoyf was a wall.

Stone rain maindeck give me 3 games, toghether with fiery counfuence, trinisphere, and thunderbreak regent are the fastest way to close games. Stone rain to their only forest or stone rain + trinisphere is really broken against some decks.

[jandax]

In this case I think the reach you lack would be found in the goblin build. With it you can shock opposing hatebears, get around prelate with moggcatcher, and still blow up lands with goblin settler.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jandax]

.

[ZTurgeon]

Last weekend I ended 10th (4-2) in a 53 ppl event with the following list:

10th - Dragon Stompy

Maindeck:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Sin Prodder
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Fiery Confluence
2 Stone Rain
2 Trinisphere

Sideboard:
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Dead // Gone
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Everlasting Torment
1 Mortarpod
1 Orbs of Warding
1 Tormod's Crypt

My wins were: ANT, 2 sneak and show and Burn.
My losses were: Maverick and Shardless BUG

Regarding Sideborard: Mortapod and Everlasting torment are under testing. Mortapod will be out for sure. Another Tormod's will be added just to fight knights of the reliquary and tarmogoyfs. Orbs of warding are good against storm and burn (also have uses against elemental tokens, empty the warrens tokens ) I don't have a lot of time to test so I test some fringe (2) slots in real tournament.

Regarding MD: Was my first time with Sin Prodder and didn't convinced me at all. Our Maindeck CMC average is 1,95 (26 cards with CMC=0) this means few damage in average and if we land prodder early, opponent will cause us issues with mana (happened against Maverick) Also Gaddock + thalia + sactum prelate at 3 were a nightmare. Against BUG Tarmogoyf was a wall.

Stone rain maindeck give me 3 games, toghether with fiery counfuence, trinisphere, and thunderbreak regent are the fastest way to close games. Stone rain to their only forest or stone rain + trinisphere is really broken against some decks.


Sin Prodder doesn't influence your ability to draw lands at all. If you start the turn with 45 cards in your deck and 15 of them are lands, the odds that your top card is a land is 1/3rd. Your odds that the second card of your deck is also a land is also 1/3rd. Infact, at that moment, the odds of any individual card in your deck is 1/3rd that it is a land. So it doesn't matter if you are drawing the first card (a field without Prodder) or the second card (a field with Prodder) that second card will remain the same card and it will have had the same chance of being a land as the card you flip to Prodder.

[Wichtelman]

Budget manabase basic forest elves is a worse MU than "real elves". Most elves players I have run into have been running budget elves as a cheap entry deck into Legacy. Budget players tend to be bad MUs for us in general: budget burn, budget basic forest elves, budget mono u delver. I used to play old school goblin stompy back when elves were maindecking Progenitus as their MD NO target. I guess the old school elf lists were actually worse maychups for us than what Elves are currently running.

Nevertheless, NO elves can even nowadays win the coin flip, t1 fetch basic forest into mana dork, t3 NO. We have very few cards in the 75 which affect this plan at all in time, meaning t1-t2 when they are on the play. Ensnaring Bridge is our out against NO fatty until they can find a Reclamation Sage.

well as "AllInRed" or whatever you want to call our deck is built to beat the metagame you have to adapt to be most effective... that said there will be no "correct or best" 60-75 card list in a vacuum...

did you never race a t3 progenitus vs elvs?
you could also start with t1 beater t2 beater t3 beater without disruption and wreck their "playing around chalice" slow hand...
(even if your moon does nothing vs mono green basic lands elvs)

if you play vs burn it also depends on your list if it is hard or easy to beat them and which hands or lets say which start you have... do you think burn beats t1 garrison/rabble/scab-clan berserker t2 garrison/rabble/scab-clan berserker t3 jitte or sword of whatever?
(if burn is on the play your correct plays might change ofc)

you can not beat everything and you have to be ok with that fact if you build your deck or enter a tourney... all you can do is avoid misplays and have a plan for each situation...


Sin Prodder doesn't influence your ability to draw lands at all. If you start the turn with 45 cards in your deck and 15 of them are lands, the odds that your top card is a land is 1/3rd. Your odds that the second card of your deck is also a land is also 1/3rd. Infact, at that moment, the odds of any individual card in your deck is 1/3rd that it is a land. So it doesn't matter if you are drawing the first card (a field without Prodder) or the second card (a field with Prodder) that second card will remain the same card and it will have had the same chance of being a land as the card you flip to Prodder.

this is true... prodder is more about you see more cards in your games = higher potential to draw gas or dealing dmg faster...

[TLK]

Sin Prodder doesn't influence your ability to draw lands at all. If you start the turn with 45 cards in your deck and 15 of them are lands, the odds that your top card is a land is 1/3rd. Your odds that the second card of your deck is also a land is also 1/3rd. Infact, at that moment, the odds of any individual card in your deck is 1/3rd that it is a land. So it doesn't matter if you are drawing the first card (a field without Prodder) or the second card (a field with Prodder) that second card will remain the same card and it will have had the same chance of being a land as the card you flip to Prodder.

This isn't true. Once you flip the first card, if it's a land, there are now 44 cards in your deck and only 14 of them are lands. That's a smaller percentage than 1/3. In this instance, Prodder helps you dig for gas because you're seeing more cards.

[Karhumies]

Once you flip the first card, if it's a land, there are now 44 cards in your deck and only 14 of them are lands. That's a smaller percentage than 1/3.
Once you flip the first card, if it's not a land, there are now 44 cards with 15 lands and the chance is more than 1/3. You are going through your deck faster with Prodder but the odds from natural turn draw effectively do not change because of it.

What changes is that the opponent may choose to not take face damage from extra nonlands to give you extra "business spells" in addition to the turn draw.

[Karhumies]

... do you think burn beats t1 garrison/rabble/scab-clan berserker t2 garrison/rabble/scab-clan berserker t3 jitte or sword of whatever?
(if burn is on the play your correct plays might change ofc)

you can not beat everything and you have to be ok with that fact if you build your deck or enter a tourney... all you can do is avoid misplays and have a plan for each situation...

ANT is so popular around here that I should probably purchase some copies of Scab-clan berserker and try it out. Cool card. D&T is also very popular, so running a 1of Jitte somewhere in the 75 is probably a good idea as well.

And yes, I agree, there is no one best decklist for the full 75. But the meta can be strongly against this deck if a lot of people have basic land decks. I would rather play something else if that is the case rather than try to struggle with almost dead Moon cards in my MD.

[TLK]

Once you flip the first card, if it's not a land, there are now 44 cards with 15 lands and the chance is more than 1/3. You are going through your deck faster with Prodder but the odds from natural turn draw effectively do not change because of it.

What changes is that the opponent may choose to not take face damage from extra nonlands to give you extra "business spells" in addition to the turn draw.

That's correct. I was just responding to the statement that the odds remain 1/3 even if the first card revealed is a land. For the record, I'm in the pro-Prodder camp.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I got to play at EE6 this weekend. The first half of the day was excellent, then I completely fell apart in the afternoon ending 4-4-0.
Based on my pairings, I should have gone 7-1-0 because my opponents were 3 Miracles, 3 BUG (2 Shardless, 1 Delver), 1 4C Delver, and 1 Sneak and Show.

This was the first event I've played with 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance, previously I've only used 2. Chandra was a huge printing for us. She's the real deal and this deck will likely warp around her in the future. There were several instances where I was behind, resolved a Chandra, and ended up winning.

My build ran 4 Sin Prodder, 4 Fiery Confluence, and 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Most of the recent lists posted to TCDecks have used this shell, so I figured they were on to something.

Despite my performance, the day was fun. I got to meet a few Source members as well as 3 of the top Legacy players from the east coast.




Moving forward, I believe Ensnaring Bridge deserves consideration as a staple in the sideboard. I find battles against Tarmogoyf and Stoneforge Mystic very difficult to win, and the decks playing those cards have trouble killing a planeswalker without combat damage. I'll have to put my brewing pants on and see what I come up with, but I'm always interested in hearing everyone's thoughts. :smile:

[BR3N7]

Have some events over the next 2 weeks and here is what I will be playing with zero changes.

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thunderbreak Regent

1 Rolling Earthquake
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon

3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Revoker

Skipped one event but went to 3rd event today and went 4-0-2 (5-1-2) to Top 4 in a 60 player event.
Same decklist.

Round 1: BUG TNN - 2-1
Round 2: 4c Loam - 2-1
Round 3: Burn 2-0
Round 4: B/R Reanimator 2-1
Round 5: Storm - Intentional Draw
Round 6: Aluren - Intentional Draw

Top 8:
B/R Rean - 2-1

Top 4:
Eldrazi 1-2
G1: He went nuts
G2: I went nuts
G3- Had 12 outs to just win facing lethal and at least 25+ to keep the game alive and I drew the bloody land. He hit 3 TKS and Ratchet bomb on 3(killing both blood moons I had, he top decked the bomb right after I played the 2nd one) and oddly he kept in 1 Thorn of Amethyst that slowed down Chandra and made the rolling earthquake take forever. I was all smiles when it was played and all sadness when it oddly slowed me down.
Kinda took a perfect storm of events and I still have outs to just win or keep it alive and I guess thats variance at its best as I beat B/R rean twice and Burn but lose to the good matchup :).

No real notes and would not change any of the cards in the deck yet and especially the main.
Went 1-3 on dice roll and played both top 8 matches on draw as the 8th seed.

The deck is 100% legit and should be considered low end tier 1 at this point and what I feel really is the best Chalice deck right now.

[Wichtelman]

Moving forward, I believe Ensnaring Bridge deserves consideration as a staple in the sideboard. I find battles against Tarmogoyf and Stoneforge Mystic very difficult to win, and the decks playing those cards have trouble killing a planeswalker without combat damage. I'll have to put my brewing pants on and see what I come up with, but I'm always interested in hearing everyone's thoughts. :smile:

well most tarmo/stoneforge decks have maindeck solutions vs bridge and sb more stuff to also deal with moon... pretty common that they just fetch the needed basics for disenchant or decay etc and slow down after sb... ive tested cards like icy manipulator vs show and tell but that card could tap down their basic under a moon and also a big goyf + it is decay proof... that said if we just talk about little creatures the better solution are probably equipments like jitte or swords... else your board is a lot of the time packed with permanents that do not win the game and your topdecks are similiar or your starting hands are not explosive anymore if you understand what im talking about...
(multiple bridge, trini, chalice, moon, mox)

[ZTurgeon]

This isn't true. Once you flip the first card, if it's a land, there are now 44 cards in your deck and only 14 of them are lands. That's a smaller percentage than 1/3. In this instance, Prodder helps you dig for gas because you're seeing more cards.

This isn't me writing, but its the quick math on it

"Short answer: no it does not change the chance of drawing a land
Long answer:
Let's say you want to draw a land, and 33% of your remaining cards in library are lands.
If you don't have Sin Prodder: 33% chance of drawing a land.
If you do have Sin Prodder:
22,11% chance of revealing a land then drawing a non-land (33% * 67%)
10,89% chance of revealing a land then drawing a land (33%*33%)
22,11% chance of revealing a non-land then drawing a land (67%*33%)
44,89% chance of revealing a non-land then drawing a non-land (67%*67%)
So if you add up the two scenarios there you draw a land, you get 10,89% + 22,11% = 33%, exactly the same as if you didn't have a Sin Prodder.
What people need to understand is that yes sometimes Sin Prodder will mill away the land you need from the top, but in other cases Sin Prodder will mill away the non-land you don't need from the top and the two scenarios cancel each other out in the probability of drawing a land."

Unless you manipulate the deck between the trigger and your draw step, the Sin Prodder does nothing to make your chances of drawing a land worse.

[AEMarling]

Chandra has renewed my interest in this deck. In my list I'm playing Phyrexian Revoker over Sin Prodder. I'm also considering 2 Stormbreath Dragon. Chandra helps ramp to it and its monstrous ability. Also, it's immune to the single-target removal in the format.

There's some tension in the deck between playing big dragons (that can't get past sideboarded Ensnaring Bridge) and thopter creatures (that can but die to Fiery Confluence). Not certain if it can or should be resolved.

My main question for this board is about mulligans. Has anyone written up a mulligan guide for this deck? Is it ever correct to keep a 7 card hand without a first-turn lock piece? How about a 6 card hand without one? And so on.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[fireiced]

Chandra has renewed my interest in this deck. In my list I'm playing Phyrexian Revoker over Sin Prodder. I'm also considering 2 Stormbreath Dragon. Chandra helps ramp to it and its monstrous ability. Also, it's immune to the single-target removal in the format.

There's some tension in the deck between playing big dragons (that can't get past sideboarded Ensnaring Bridge) and thopter creatures (that can but die to Fiery Confluence). Not certain if it can or should be resolved.

My main question for this board is about mulligans. Has anyone written up a mulligan guide for this deck? Is it ever correct to keep a 7 card hand without a first-turn lock piece? How about a 6 card hand without one? And so on.

Thanks for your thoughts.

4 mana is a stretch, 5 is even worst.

Mulligans, I aggressively mulligan for lock pieces + acceleration. The only hands I keep without lock pieces are 5 card hands with threat + acceleration. Else I just take it the rng gods showed me no favour that game.

I play Thunderbreak Regent cause it makes sideboarding easy. Vs fast deck / combo deck? Toss him out for interaction. Not much sideboarding needed vs slower decks except cutting some moon magus for revokers vs miracles.

[Darklingske]

It's been since Taurean Mauler and Rakdos Pit Dragon that I've played this deck, but with the printing of Chandra 2.0 & Fiery Confluence I'm picking this up again. The excitement of locking someone out on T1 has always tickled my fancy. And this weekend I'm playing a small legacy event with it. I'll post my list in a few minutes.

[Wichtelman]

Chandra has renewed my interest in this deck. In my list I'm playing Phyrexian Revoker over Sin Prodder. I'm also considering 2 Stormbreath Dragon. Chandra helps ramp to it and its monstrous ability. Also, it's immune to the single-target removal in the format.

There's some tension in the deck between playing big dragons (that can't get past sideboarded Ensnaring Bridge) and thopter creatures (that can but die to Fiery Confluence). Not certain if it can or should be resolved.

My main question for this board is about mulligans. Has anyone written up a mulligan guide for this deck? Is it ever correct to keep a 7 card hand without a first-turn lock piece? How about a 6 card hand without one? And so on.

Thanks for your thoughts.

well try to think about it that way... if you have a lock piece it does not matter that much which creatures u play to kill your opp BUT if you do not have disruption it gets a little bit tricky + you dont want 4 or 5 mana stuff vs combo if it does not wreck them on the spot... more higher cost = your hands get cluncky and daze or mana denial is a pain... that said if you have chandra already in play do you really need a 5 mana dragon?

sure it seems to be strong vs d&t for example but they play judgement and what is their strat with wasteland + port again?
sure it is a big flyer that is sword + decay proof BUT miracles or bug etc can still kill it or just race your slow hand...

mulligans depend on the situation... into the blue in g1 you have to be really agressive... g2 and g3 you could keep hands without disruption to counter your opps strat of basic basic or solutions to moon + chalice hands with like t1 critter t2 critter t3 critter...

actually it is really hard to write a guide for this deck if you have to adapt with like 14-18 cards to be most effecive in a metagame... sideboarding and how matchups play out vary a lot cuz of that...

[Karhumies]

Chandra has renewed my interest in this deck. In my list I'm playing Phyrexian Revoker over Sin Prodder. I'm also considering 2 Stormbreath Dragon. Chandra helps ramp to it and its monstrous ability. Also, it's immune to the single-target removal in the format.

There's some tension in the deck between playing big dragons (that can't get past sideboarded Ensnaring Bridge) and thopter creatures (that can but die to Fiery Confluence). Not certain if it can or should be resolved.

My main question for this board is about mulligans. Has anyone written up a mulligan guide for this deck? Is it ever correct to keep a 7 card hand without a first-turn lock piece? How about a 6 card hand without one? And so on.

Thanks for your thoughts.

The problems I've had with MD Revoker is that it dies to Fiery Confluence AoE @ 1, naming stuff to multiple revokers in g1 can be difficult guesswork since we don't run spot discard or other effects to see what our opponent is playing (T1 moon and opponent plays U fetchlands as mountains and passes gives us almost 0 information), and it races badly. I'd prefer 0-1 main with extras coming in from sb once I know what to name.

Stormbreath Dragon can be good in D&T and Miracles heavy meta where prot white is relevant. In other metas where prot white is not as relevant, 5 mana is more than 4 mana, making Thunderbreak Regent a great alternative.

On the play, you can keep a t2 lock piece hand if the hand is otherwise super good and you feel like the opponent is not playing T1 combo. T1 basic mountain go can make the opponent place you on burn, thinking you are holding back a Lightning Bolt. But this does give the opponent a chance to t1 fetch a basic.

[Darklingske]

Has anyone played with Avaricious dragon? I like the extra carddraw, but I'm not sure if it is worth the slot over Regent. I'm testing it out tonight, so hopefully I will get the answer tomorrow.

[CovenantElite30]

What's your guys opinion on just dropping the 2 sideboard cards Ashen Rider for the show and tell matchup?

I would rather just sure up some of my other matchups.

Just so you have an idea my sideboard is the following.

4 Leyline of the void
4 sulfur elemental
3 sudden shock
2 ensnaring bridge
2 Ashen Rider

I'm considering cutting the 2 Ashen Rider and adding 1 ensnaring bridge and 1 phyrexian revoker.

[Wichtelman]

Has anyone played with Avaricious dragon? I like the extra carddraw, but I'm not sure if it is worth the slot over Regent. I'm testing it out tonight, so hopefully I will get the answer tomorrow.

on paper it looks good if you can empty your hand but probably get screwed by a single removal eot...
(you have to cast fiery confluence no matter what if you draw it for example)


What's your guys opinion on just dropping the 2 sideboard cards Ashen Rider for the show and tell matchup?

I would rather just sure up some of my other matchups.

Just so you have an idea my sideboard is the following.

4 Leyline of the void
4 sulfur elemental
3 sudden shock
2 ensnaring bridge
2 Ashen Rider

I'm considering cutting the 2 Ashen Rider and adding 1 ensnaring bridge and 1 phyrexian revoker.

the matchup is anyways horrible even if you play 2 riders... if your meta has a lot show and tell you should play something else sadly... just imagine you play like 8 sb cards vs show and tell but you will lose g1 most of the time... g2 and g3 get better but if your opp is smart he will not cast show and tell into your solutions without backup... soo can you afford 8 sb slots to have a shot g2 and g3?
ye one of the 2 riders can steal games once in a while and in a big tourney like +100 players i would play "something" vs show and tell in my sb but else ill just ignore it and hope to dodge the matchup...

[L10]

I got to play at EE6 this weekend. The first half of the day was excellent, then I completely fell apart in the afternoon ending 4-4-0.
Based on my pairings, I should have gone 7-1-0 because my opponents were 3 Miracles, 3 BUG (2 Shardless, 1 Delver), 1 4C Delver, and 1 Sneak and Show.

This was the first event I've played with 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance, previously I've only used 2. Chandra was a huge printing for us. She's the real deal and this deck will likely warp around her in the future. There were several instances where I was behind, resolved a Chandra, and ended up winning.

My build ran 4 Sin Prodder, 4 Fiery Confluence, and 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Most of the recent lists posted to TCDecks have used this shell, so I figured they were on to something.

Despite my performance, the day was fun. I got to meet a few Source members as well as 3 of the top Legacy players from the east coast.




Moving forward, I believe Ensnaring Bridge deserves consideration as a staple in the sideboard. I find battles against Tarmogoyf and Stoneforge Mystic very difficult to win, and the decks playing those cards have trouble killing a planeswalker without combat damage. I'll have to put my brewing pants on and see what I come up with, but I'm always interested in hearing everyone's thoughts. :smile:
I went from 3 Chandra up to 4 Chandra since the last time I played you with Painter. She is a bomb, and hiding behind Ensnaring Bridge is great. So I can tell you first hand that it is a legitimate strategy. Against DnT though, Prelate is usually on 4 vs. you guys, so Chandra and FC may be unreliable if they put you on the Japanese list. I am currently playing 3 Sulfur Elemental and 2 Pyrokinesis in my SB and are doing tremendous work. Sudden Shock is also great since it gets around Mom. I think Big Red needs 5-7 cards dedicated in the SB vs. DnT. Ensnaring Bridge + Rabblemaster works surprisingly well when you are ready to unleash the hoard.

[Karhumies]

What's your guys opinion on just dropping the 2 sideboard cards Ashen Rider for the show and tell matchup?

I would rather just sure up some of my other matchups

If you want SB cards which are useful vs Sneaky Show as well as other MUs:

- Pyroblast counters SnT, FoW, TNN, Counterbalance, Jace TMS, Brainstorm and other blue cantrips, etc.
- Phyrexian Revoker gets to name Sneak Attack, SDT, Mother of Runes, Stoneforge Mystic, Liliana of the Veil, Goblin Charbelcher, LED, etc.
- Ensnaring Bridge is similar to Ashen Rider but you can actually cast it in other MUs as well
- Stingscourger is a niche option, especially if you are running MD Moggcatcher

[CovenantElite30]

What's your guys opinion on playing 3 Pyrokinesis in the sideboard over Sudden Shock ?

So I was originally playing Sudden Shock and found the card to be too slow vs burn and D&T.

I know your 2 for 1 yourself with Pyrokinesis, but you don't need to leave up mana to play it.

Am I wrong here? I don't see Pyrokinesis played at all really.

[Karhumies]

What's your guys opinion on playing 3 Pyrokinesis in the sideboard over Sudden Shock ?


Worse against Monastery Mentor and Counterbalance, you need to be careful vs BUG Daze/Pierce, typically better against the rest of the field.

Versus D&T I want to bring a mix of both in because Sudden Shock kills an active Mother of Runes. But then again, Sulfur Elemental is better than Sudden Shock in that MU.

[Darklingske]

This is the list I tested yesterday against BUG-Still:
11 Mountain
4 Tomb
4 City
4 Prodder
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Rabblemaster
2 Regent
4 Chandra
4 Confluence
4 Moon
4 Mox
4 Chalice
3 Trini

SB:
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Bridge
1 Boil
1 Crumble to dust
1 Rolling Earthquake
2 Revoker
4 LotV

The MU felt horrible. I lost every game preboard (played 3 games) and only managed to win 2 games after boarding (out of 10). Resolving a moon on T1 was crucial in both winning games. But every other time it went like this: T1 DRS with a basic swamp, T2 Decay your moon effect, T3 push your threat, T4 Standstill, T5 and following turns just drop lands and then resolve Jace and counter everything I play. I blame it on variance :)
Some conclusions:
Regent: never saw him, so don't know if it's good. I'm seriously thinking in replacing him with Revokers MD, but unfortunately then your Confluences are worse.
Prodder: whenever I played him, he got to swing once and dealt an average of 3 damage over several draws. To say the least, I'm not overly in love with the little dude, but hey, maybe sunday it will prove me wrong?

[Wichtelman]

Ensnaring Bridge is similar to Ashen Rider but you can actually cast it in other MUs as well

this is true but you also have to consider that bridge just stalls and you still have to finish the game before they draw their solution...


The MU felt horrible. I lost every game preboard (played 3 games) and only managed to win 2 games after boarding (out of 10). Resolving a moon on T1 was crucial in both winning games. But every other time it went like this: T1 DRS with a basic swamp, T2 Decay your moon effect, T3 push your threat, T4 Standstill, T5 and following turns just drop lands and then resolve Jace and counter everything I play. I blame it on variance :)

so if your list or strat had something like this... t1 shock drs, t2 chandra or thunderbreak, t3 chandra or thunderbreak do you think he would have won the same amount of games?
anyways how did you sb or which hands did you keep and do you bring in sulfur vs counter heavy control?

[LeoCop 90]

Well, bug decks can beat us just because of the line you described, t1 fetch basic into deathrite shaman. Overall i think we are favored though, because if we are on the play they basically need a force of will or risk to lose on the spot, if we are on the draw they still need to have either force of will or deathrite. I mean, if they always have deathrite + counterspell we usually lose (not always because we can still win a normal game of magic with chandra and friends), but they need to have those cards and sometimes they have to mulligan to find them.

I'm glad that this deck is picking up in popularity, i just hope we don't become too popular or everyone will start playing basic lands.

[AEMarling]

Given the importance of a turn-one lockpiece, I added a Lotus Petal. Believe it's better than other options, such as Crystal Vein (would be the 20th land), or Elvish Spirit Guide. When I have Bridge in play, I want to see more lands, so perhaps the 20th one is a consideration.


Against BUG Delver all I want is Ensnaring Bridge. Don't think racing their curve is reasonable option. Locking them out with Blood Moon is of course the A plan. I like Fiery Confluence in many spots but I find myself siding it out against Delver. It feels almost uncastable, compared to Pyrokinesis. Currently am playing 2 FC maindeck, along with 1 Rolling Earthquake, 1 Ensnaring Bridge. Would like to play more Bridges but I worry it's not proactive enough against Miracles.

[TLK]

Given the importance of a turn-one lockpiece, I added a Lotus Petal. Believe it's better than other options, such as Crystal Vein (would be the 20th land), or Elvish Spirit Guide. When I have Bridge in play, I want to see more lands, so perhaps the 20th one is a consideration.


Against BUG Delver all I want is Ensnaring Bridge. Don't think racing their curve is reasonable option. Locking them out with Blood Moon is of course the A plan. I like Fiery Confluence in many spots but I find myself siding it out against Delver. It feels almost uncastable, compared to Pyrokinesis. Currently am playing 2 FC maindeck, along with 1 Rolling Earthquake, 1 Ensnaring Bridge. Would like to play more Bridges but I worry it's not proactive enough against Miracles.

What's your 75 looking like

[Zirath]

Played this at Mythic today. Went 4-0-2 in Swiss (W: 4C Delver, W: Miracles, W: UB Landstill, W: Sneak Fit, ID, ID) and won my quarterfinals match against Elves. I played the same list I had played sometime ago (December?):

10 Mountains
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Sin Prodder
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

3 Fiery Confluence

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

Sideboard
2 Pyrokinesis
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Trinisphere
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sudden Shock

Deck felt IN...sane. Even games that were variance heavy, I didn't feel out of control at any point.

The dragons didn't feel amazing however. Thunderbreak Regent is just the best creature at its cost (maybe Pia and Kiran could be better) but Stormbreath Dragon was friends with Chrome Mox all day. Based on what people are doing online, the intelligent change to try is probably -2 Stormbreath Dragon, -1 Thunderbreak Regent, +1 Fiery Confluence, +2 Pia and Kiran.

It's possible my sideboard is slightly off. Sudden Shock and Umezawa's Jitte never did much.

Also, online 3 Trinisphere is fine. On paper, I would have likely lost because of it. This is a very big consideration to anyone transitioning from MTGO to paper.

[TLK]

Played this at Mythic today. Went 4-0-2 in Swiss (W: 4C Delver, W: Miracles, W: UB Landstill, W: Sneak Fit, ID, ID) and won my quarterfinals match against Elves. I played the same list I had played sometime ago (December?):

10 Mountains
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Sin Prodder
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

3 Fiery Confluence

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

Sideboard
2 Pyrokinesis
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Trinisphere
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sudden Shock

Deck felt IN...sane. Even games that were variance heavy, I didn't feel out of control at any point.

The dragons didn't feel amazing however. Thunderbreak Regent is just the best creature at its cost (maybe Pia and Kiran could be better) but Stormbreath Dragon was friends with Chrome Mox all day. Based on what people are doing online, the intelligent change to try is probably -2 Stormbreath Dragon, -1 Thunderbreak Regent, +1 Fiery Confluence, +2 Pia and Kiran.

It's possible my sideboard is slightly off. Sudden Shock and Umezawa's Jitte never did much.

Also, online 3 Trinisphere is fine. On paper, I would have likely lost because of it. This is a very big consideration to anyone transitioning from MTGO to paper.

Well done! So you're saying 3 Trinis is a must in the board?

[TLK]

Also, do Chrome Mox and/or Spirit Guides ever get sided out?

Re: Dragons, I've been running 2 Koth in the place of Stormbreath. Gives another wincon while hiding behind Bridge.

[Zirath]

Trinisphere never came up for me though 3 is probably the right number in a unknown or big meta.

Usually I find I board out threats that don't work before boarding out other things. I'll try to write out my logic for a couple match ups.

Boarding out mana is tough since it is what allows us to be explosive.

I'd like to try Pia and Kiran because they can throw Bridges at problems.

I don't like Koth. I have played him many times before but he always disappoints me. He's bad on offense because he gets out scaled or chumped, and he's bad on defense because he doesn't protect himself or advance our board. His ultimate ends the game but two turns is hard to justify for a card that doesn't impact the board. If Miracles was a worse match up, I'd have a different opinion but that's not the case.

[TLK]

How does this deck beat Infect? Seems miserable. Just got steamrolled by it in a GPT.

[jandax]

Their nut draw doesn't beat our nut draw. We got moons and chalice and 3 ball turn one. Their nutdraw involves turn zero force our lock piece turn one threat we can't immediately deal with, turn two alpha ftw. All we have to do is land at least one lock piece before the end of turn two and maintain pressure. I've also won by going t1 rabblemaster t2 rabblemaster. Try to get the player to think they need to play the control in the match. Either we lose out of the blue, and that happens, or we apply pressure every turn til they run out of gas. Their deck is relatively threat light


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[Mafu13]

Julian Knab mentions in his latest article of the MKMseries of a R/B Dragon Stompy list he vs'd using Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast. I think it was piloted by Jiri Tuma. Sounds real interesting. Would anyone know where to find a list?

[TLK]

Yeah, I think I just got unlucky then. I had the chalice/3sphere early, but one ate a FoW and I couldn't draw a red source.

[TLK]

Lost in the top 4 of the GPT to Miracles. Ugh.

[CovenantElite30]

Lost in the top 4 of the GPT to Miracles. Ugh.
Deck list?

How many rounds did you play?

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[AEMarling]

Did ok today with the deck at a GPT today. Made the top 8. Wanted all my threats to play well with Bridge. Even so, Bridges make the deck more defensive by taking up slots. Tend to think Ensnaring Bridge is the best answer to Nemesis and Tarmogoyf. To my mind that meant I should play four, though I wasn't sure they all belonged in the maindeck. I guess if I'm siding in Bridges I have to side out the Revokers / Trinispheres to keep my red-spell count high enough.

4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Quicksmith Rebel
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

2x Fiery Confluence
1x Rolling Earthquake
1x Ensnaring Bridge

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
4x Blood Moon

4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Chrome Mox
1x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain



Sideboard (15)
2x Boil
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Pyrokinesis
4x Sulfur Elemental
1x Trinisphere

[AEMarling]

Is racing the Tarmo / Angler / Nemesis crowd the better option with aggressive threats followed up by Fiery Confluence? As opposed to the Ensnaring Bridge strategy.

[AceOfJacks]

Greetings.

The weekend my LGS had a GPT for Las Vegas. We had 38 participants. 6 rounds of swiss, cut to top 8. I top 4'd this event. I went 4-1-1 in the swiss (rd 1 loss, rds 2-5 win, I.D. rd 6.) I played the following list:

3 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sudden Shock
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Null Rod


Last week, and the week before that, there was a lot of Reanimator, DnT, and Delver in the weekly Monday night events. As such, I went into this event with EXTREMELY low expectations. I honestly thought this would be a waste of time and money, but this weekend the room was FILLED WITH LEOVOLDS (which I was very excited to face all day.)


Rd 1: Royce - BUG ANT loss 1-2
G1 All I see from opp is Git Probe, Swamp, Therapy (takes 3ball), delta for USea, then opp died. As such, there were too many possible decks, and I sideboarded incorrectly for g2.
G2, he comboed out after casting turn 1 therapy, again taking trinisphere, turn 2 abrupt decay killing rabblemaster.
G3, I had t0 leyline, t1 chalice on 0 (to stop early petal/led shenanigans,) turn 3 i drew a null rod, so i deployed that as well. He does some shenanigans involving decaying the rod, chaining the chalice, then combing off. Apparently he had all the rituals in his hand.

Rd 2: Sam - Jund win 2-0
G1 opp didn't really have much. He fetched a few lands, abrupt decayed my sin prodder after it hit him, and punishing fire'd me once under a blood moon.
G2, he fetched a bayou, got locked under moon. He throws a bolt at me, then thunderbreak plus rabblemaster seal the game.

Rd 3: Andy - Leovold.deck win 2-0
I had the advantage of watching this opponent go to time at the end of the previous round, so I knew he was playing Leovold control.
G1 is pretty much FoW my t1 threat, fetch, brainstorm, fetch again, land a TNN, and we race. In the end, Sin Prodder and Thunderbreak Regent beat TNN plus Baleful Strix.
G2 he Thoughtseizes Magus of the Moon turn 1. He Snapcasters the Thoughtseize turn 3 and gets my Blood Moon. I have 3 hits from his snapcaster before sin prodder value overwhelms him. I land too many threats and race his life total before he can do anything meaningful. I drew 0 additional moon effects, but his cantrips did nothing under a trinisphere.

Rd 4: Harrison - BUG ANT win 1-2
G1 opponent combo'd out turn 2. Whatever.
G2, Leyline, Trinisphere, Null Rod, Rabblemaster. Opp dies while digging for removal.
G3, Leyline, Chalice on 1, Blood Moon. Opponent resolved git probe, 2 fetches, and ... dies to creatures.

Rd 5: Brook - Tezzerator / Thopter Foundry win 2-0
G1, opp plays Ancient Tomb, Talisman of Dominance. I play Mountain, Chrome Mox x2, Magus. Opp plays a second Ancient Tomb, second Talisman, Thopter Foundry. I play land, Fiery Confluence, killing his 3x artifacts. He never gets board presence. Giggles and random "blowout" comments from the people watching our match (we were at table 2, and table 1 split, so we had the spectators.)
G2 opponent plays fetch, gets basic island. I land a Blood Moon. He plays second Island. I start hitting him with Sin Prodder. He resolves JTMS, bounces Thunderbreak, I kill JTMS with the trigger. He dies with basic Islands, fetches he can't crack, and a hand full of black cards.

Rd 6: Sam (Roukas!) - Intentional Draw

Top8: I was 6th seed
Virgil (3 seed) - Grixis Delver win 2-0
G1 opp Git Probes me, sees 3ball, Chalice, B Moon, and lands. He pitches TNN to FoW my t1 3ball. He lands a Delvr, I land. Sin Prodder. He lands. Pyromancer, I land a Fiery Confluence, killing Pyro. Sin Prodder races Delver and I win with 4 life.
G2, we trade some removal. I kill a DRS with a Confluence, he kills my Rabble with a Bolt. He lands a 2nd DRS, I land a 3ball and a Rabble. He has to use his DRS to stay alive and for mana, while I have 7 mana and 2 Thunderbreak Regents on the table

Top4:
Adam (7 seed) - Loss to W/U RIP/Energy Field/Helm Combo.
G1: I had a decent start, but I literally could not stop his Energy Field / RIP combo once it hit the table.
G2: I had zero sideboard cards against him, but I shuffled in 15 cards and pulled out 15 cards anyway. I play Chalice @ 2, he counters it. He hits RIP, but nothing for the next few turns. I try another Chalice @2, he counters that as well. Next turn, he drops Energy Field. Again, I cannot win, and I have a Sin Prodder in play, so even if he does NOTHING all game, I deck out first.

In the end, the top 4 match would have come down to 2 sideboard slots that I changed literally last minute. I could have put Anarchy and/or Ratchet Bomb in those 2 flex slots, but I ended up putting the 3rd Sulfur Elemental and the 3rd Sudden Shock, because of my read on the Monday night meta for the past few weeks. A LOT of DnT in the room over the past month, and apparently people have realized the correct number to call for Sanctum Prelate is four, which means all my removal is dead except for sideboarded sudden shocks. Ratchet Bomb is too slow against that, because they can flickerwisp it, or relic-warder it. Sudden Shock seemed like a better sideboard card based on what I thought I was going to see in the room. Apparently the meta was just about "flavor of the month" decks, as there were more Leovolds than basic Plains in the decks for this event.

[Darklingske]

I played a small tournament (17 participants) with the dragons yesterday. It was horrible.
R1 Bye
R2 Miracles 0-2
G1 T1 he forces my Moon. T2 Rabblemaster gets terminussed after 2 attacks. T5 Chandra dies to Monks and so do I. G2 I land a T1 Moon and it slows him down, but I see only lands and die to a duo of Mages.
R3 Sneak & Show 1-2
T1 Show & tell from him and he drops Omni, I drop Trini. I slow him down, but I can't find a 4th land and die to a sneaked Emmie & Grizz. G2 T1 trini followed by T2 Rabblemaster and that was enough. G3 T1 Show onto Emmie.
R4 Bant 1-2
G1 he goes T1 Noble off a Tropical and my T1 Moon slows him down, but I can't find a Confluence or beatstick and die to Goyf + Jitte. G2 T1 moon and that was enough. G3 again T1 Noble, T2 Goyf, T3 Jitte against my Moon and flooded manabase.
I lost every dieroll and my opponents had all the right answers. I guess that happens sometimes.

[Wichtelman]

How does this deck beat Infect? Seems miserable. Just got steamrolled by it in a GPT.


Their nut draw doesn't beat our nut draw. We got moons and chalice and 3 ball turn one. Their nutdraw involves turn zero force our lock piece turn one threat we can't immediately deal with, turn two alpha ftw. All we have to do is land at least one lock piece before the end of turn two and maintain pressure. I've also won by going t1 rabblemaster t2 rabblemaster. Try to get the player to think they need to play the control in the match. Either we lose out of the blue, and that happens, or we apply pressure every turn til they run out of gas. Their deck is relatively threat light

well depends if you or they are on the play and which list you play... if they are on the play most lists cant do anything about their nuts... if you run sudden shock md + pyrokinesis sb that matchup is a joke...


Loss to W/U RIP/Energy Field/Helm Combo - I literally could not stop his Energy Field / RIP combo once it hit the table.

one more reason to add ratchet bomb to a sb that can deal with a lot of problems...

[Ace/Homebrew]

http://i.imgur.com/SshQ9eo.jpg

We still know nothing about what 'exert' could be, but this dragon and it's ability isn't nothing.
Haste is huge and repeatable removal is always welcome.

[Ace/Homebrew]

We still know nothing about what 'exert' could be.

Okay, 'Exert': You make the decision whether to exert a creature as you declare it as an attacker. If you choose to have it exert, an ability will trigger and grant you some bonus. As a trade-off, the creature won't untap during your next turn. It's tired. Needs a nap.

Certainly neuters the card, but may not completely invalidate it...

[TLK]

Deck list?

How many rounds did you play?

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4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Sin Prodder
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Rolling Earthquake
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Chrome Mox (couldn't find a 4th)
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
11 Mountain

4 Sudden Shock
3 Sulfur Elemental
1 Pyrokinesis
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge

R1 - Bye (1-0)
R2 - Infect (0-2, 1-1)
R3 - High Tide (2-0, 2-1)
R4 - D&T (2-1, 3-1)
R5 - ID (3-1-1)
Top 4 - Miracles (0-2)

Thunderbreak Regent seemed meh all day long. Never got to cast Rolling Earthquake. Sin Prodder was awesome. Fiery Confluence was insane vs D&T. As for the board, never got to cast Pyrokinesis, so I can't really comment.

[AEMarling]

How are the Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard? I've begun to test without them. Racing Tarmogoyf is a near thing. It's hard to keep Chandra alive without Bridge (and her parents for chump blocks). So, I'm looking at siding out Chandra against decks with huge threats. Not sure if that's good or not.

[Zirath]

How are the Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard? I've begun to test without them. Racing Tarmogoyf is a near thing. It's hard to keep Chandra alive without Bridge (and her parents for chump blocks). So, I'm looking at siding out Chandra against decks with huge threats. Not sure if that's good or not.

You shouldn't ever need to board out Chandra if you can help it. Remember that if they are attacking Chandra, they aren't attacking you. As a result, you can continue the race.

[AceOfJacks]

Re: Bridge and Chandra:
Chandra becomes your main win condition once you stick a Bridge. If you plan on bringing in Bridge, I would cut your bigger threats, such as Thunderbreak. The odds of you attacking with a 4 power creature and then still keeping Chandra alive with a Bridge seem incredibly low.


Unrelated:
I played in my Monday weekly at the same store yesterday. I fully expected my "curse" to be in full effect. Every time I do well in an event, I usually end up bombing for 4-6 weeks average after that. It didn't happen this time, but I expect it will kick in on Thursday, when I play my crappy Modern deck.

List:
3 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sudden Shock
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Null Rod

Rd 1: George K - DnT - loss 0-2
G1: He is at ONE life, but ends up gaining a boatload of life via a freshly ripped Batterskull. I draw ... Trinisphere x 2, land x 2. He lands Sanctum Prelate, says the number 4, and I no longer have a way to kill his Batterskull. I concede.
G2: After sideboarding in Sudden Shocks, Sulfur Elementals, and Null Rods, I get him down to 4 life. Somehow, he manages to find all of his Swords and all of his Stoneforges, before I can find a single artifact killer. I managed to Sulfur away his 1 toughness creatures, but Serra Avenger with a SoFI kills me before I can deal with his sword. Also, the Sanctum Prelate thing happened again.

Rd 2: Raphael - Eldrazi Stompy - win 2-0
G1: Magus of the Moon. He plays Matter Reshaper, but we BOTH do not realize that he couldn't actually cast it (we were discussing other matters since we are good friends, and didn't think about the matchup.) He gets in one swing before I land a Sin Prodder and a Thunderbreak Regent. HE cannot cast anything and concedes.
G2: I cast a Blood Moon, but he has a Mimic and an Endless One (2/2) on the table. I eventually find a creature and he is forced to hold back his attacks. I win at 12 life, but Sin Prodder delivers a victory yet again.

Rd 3: George B - Manaless Dredge win 2-1
G1: I cast Chalice @ 1, he discards Phantasmagorian. I lament and moan and complain loudly. I proceed to attempt to race him. I get him to 3 before his dredges actually work and he overwhelms me with Zombie tokens.
G2: Leyline turn 0, Trinisphere turn 2. He cannot cast any removal spells, he concedes before I can attack with any creatures.
G3: Leyline turn 0, but no pressure after that. I ended up sideboarding in Null Rod because I was not sure if he had an alternate transformative sideboard, such as Belcher or anything cute. He Sickening Shoals some creatures, Soul Spikes a couple more, but he cannot find removal for the Leyline and eventually dies.

Rd 4: Split with opponent, but decided we would play for the "free" pack anyway
G1, opponent plays Plains, Aether Vial, pass. DnT, NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo...... SOMEHOW I manage to win, due to him having relatively bad draws. Sin Prodder was the VIP of this game, until it got StP'd with my opp at 2 life.
G2: Sulfur Elemental, Sin Prodder, and a well timed Fiery Confluence save my ass. He went up to 18 with that Batterskull, but the Confluence wrecks him, and he cannot deal with the pressure on the table fast enough. NOW YOU KNOW HOW IT FEELS DEATH AND TAXES PLAYERS. *insert curse word here*


Actual 3-1, official 2-1-1.
Afterthoughts:
1- I need to find another way to deal with problematic DnT things that cost less than 4 mana. Sudden Shock is nice to have in the board, but Sanctum Prelate on 4 is insanely good against this version of the deck.
2- I might try 19 lands and a 2nd Koth? Or maybe a Stormbreath? Every time I play 19 lands I end up hitting the variance curse, and either draw 2 lands or 7 ...

[CovenantElite30]

Has anyone tried to get a hold of Jiri Tuma and get his Rakdos Dragon Stompy list from him? I've curious what his list looks like.

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[AEMarling]

Took some notes, and over 27 turns with Sin Prodder, it did an average of 4.8 damage per turn. For this calculation, I converted cards the opponent was forced to let me draw due to their low life total into damage tallies. I didn't count cards they let me draw because they were redundant lockpieces.

I may have run a bit hot with the Prodder, but it does at least 4.5 damage average per turn, thanks in part to its evasion and a format with fewer creatures. That said, I found I was siding them out against Miracles in favor of Scab-Clan Berserker. Do you find yourself siding them out against Miracles?

The reason I'm mulling over the Prodder is because it seems quite bad combined with Ensnaring Bridge. Not sure if I should only play one or the other.

[AceOfJacks]

I originally thought it was a bad idea to use Bridge and Pridder at the same time, but I actually think it's not bad at all. Mostly because you can kill your own Sin Prodder by landing Bridge, getting 2 cards from Prodder, attacking into an obviously bad combat, and then doing stupid things like Fiery Confluence or pkaying multiple Chalices for 0.

That's all a worst case scenario though. I keep the Prodder in the deck primarily to dig through the deck a little. The absolute worst case is you rip multiple lands and you cannot play them all, thus your opponent can attack through a Bridge. Best case is you find the Bridge and you beat your opponent with a Menacing dude that burns them every (other) turn.

You also have to considet what you're siding out when you side in bridges. You should be siding out higher cmc things, so the cards you draw are lock pieces, removal spells, or just plain lands. Your threat base becomes the Sin Prodder and the planeswalkers of choice. I guess it is possible that you can flip multiple Chandras and then you have to get creative with dropping your entire hand ...

[Zirath]

The reason I'm mulling over the Prodder is because it seems quite bad combined with Ensnaring Bridge. Not sure if I should only play one or the other.

Sin Prodder is a source of damage under Bridge consistently. You shouldn't need to board them out. Rabblemaster is usually a better choice.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Against Lands, Reanimator, and Show and Tell you can keep in both Sin Prodder and Ensnaring Bridge without a second thought. Against mid-range decks where the possibility of drawing multiple lands you cannot completely ditch occurs, I'd side out Prodders but keep in Rabblemaster.

Rabble under a bridge in a draw-go scenario with your opponent lets you build up a critical mass of goblin tokens until you represent lethal even with their blockers.

[TMPWDobs]

Deck is trending upwards as far as legacy meta goes. http://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=78&meta=39&f=LE

[CovenantElite30]

In case you guys missed this article from mtggoldfish he talked about a Dragon Stompy list by Jeremy Edwards who finished top 8 in the Mox Boarding House on 19/03/17.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-smaller-tournaments-around-the-world

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 City of Traitors
3 Hanweir Garrison
4 Magus of the Moon
12 Mountain
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Sudden Shock
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Chaos Warp
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Smash to Smithereens
1 Zuran Orb


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[Nocioni88]

New big god in Amonketh


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[Ace/Homebrew]

New big god in Amonkhet

Initial reaction is that he's a great mid-late game top deck.
Indestructible sounds like a great ability until you consider that this is Legacy and he'll either be Terminus'd or Plow'd...

Haste is huge and his activated ability is nice.
But he's a 4 drop, so he's got stiff competition for space. Maybe a 1-of, competing for the same slot as Pia and Kiran Nalaar.

[ZTurgeon]

Initial reaction is that he's a great mid-late game top deck.
Indestructible sounds like a great ability until you consider that this is Legacy and he'll either be Terminus'd or Plow'd...

Haste is huge and his activated ability is nice.
But he's a 4 drop, so he's got stiff competition for space. Maybe a 1-of, competing for the same slot as Pia and Kiran Nalaar.

I think he's better than that.

Yes, indestructible isn't quite as good in legacy, but between blood moon and chalice, this deck has the best shot at stopping those cards from ever getting played anyways. The indestructible in combat means that he can certainly tussle with anything, which is always one of the bigger issues (getting stuck behind a Tarmogoyf or Angler "Abyss"). But not only is he a fiarly big beater and blocker, but he's a maindeck way to win behind bridge. That is very important for the makeup of the deck.

Right now, as most have moved away from goblin stompy and to a more aggressive version, matchups that need Bridge have gotten much worse with only Chandra and Fiery Confluences to finish the job. This card could mean that the deck has a 2nd big way to close a locked up game.

[Zirath]

Initial reaction is that he's a great mid-late game top deck.
Indestructible sounds like a great ability until you consider that this is Legacy and he'll either be Terminus'd or Plow'd...

Haste is huge and his activated ability is nice.
But he's a 4 drop, so he's got stiff competition for space. Maybe a 1-of, competing for the same slot as Pia and Kiran Nalaar.

The attack or block restriction is huge I think. It's insane as the game goes long and it makes the Bridge plan even better but I am unsure at this exact moment.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Fair enough, but I'm not sure she's superior to Pia and Kiran Nalaar, even in the situations you described.

Without a bridge, with a Chandra: She's got to be 'on' in order to provide any defense. P&K do not have this downside, although they can only block a single threat 3 times before you need another solution.
With a bridge, with a Chandra: She's got an activated ability that shocks and synergizes with Bridge, however P&K makes 2 flyers that can attack after you draw, then be sac'd as needed to close out the game.

Both are terrible facing a Terminus, but P&K is better against Swords to Plowshares.

Hazoret and Sin Prodder don't play exceptionally well together, so it looks like lists would need to be tweaked a little instead of just slotting the new card into an existing list.
I'd say Hazoret is superior to Purphoros, God of the Forge and could potentially see play. I personally want this deck to move towards "resolve and protect Chandra" and this card would fit into that style deck.

[BR3N7]

I think Hazoret is very good on paper and yes it does not go all that well with Sin Prodder but thats not a big deal. This card would be better if it could target creatures but it at least on paper seems playable. Will go try it on Untap later before I look to buy pre-release foils.

Still its does almost everything we want while being indestructible stopping all but STP.

Even with Prodder your likely to have 3-6 mana to dump 1-2 cards if they are lands.

My early not a single game played conclusion is I will have 1 in my deck in a month but of course I will test it.

[ESG]

In case you guys missed this article from mtggoldfish he talked about a Dragon Stompy list by Jeremy Edwards who finished top 8 in the Mox Boarding House on 19/03/17.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-smaller-tournaments-around-the-world

Yep, that's my list, with its many unorthodox choices arrived at through testing. I lowered my curve to play well with Prophetic Flamespeaker, and that worked out at the event. I didn't want Rabblemasters, so I explored other creatures. I mainly played the deck to punk all the BUG and four-color decks I expected to see at that 1K. That went as predicted. I ran the Sulfur Elementals in the main to make the Death & Taxes matchup easier. I didn't end up getting paired against D&T, but it was the most-played deck in the room that day, so I feel that was also a correct call. My Swiss rounds were BUG Delver (2-1), Tin Fins (2-0), Sneak & Show (0-2), 4c Loam (2-1), Miracles (2-1), Tin Fins (2-1).

I was the second seed going into the elimination rounds and had the misfortune of playing against Burn. Game 1 I had Turn 1 Chalice at 1 and took the game easily. Game 2 I had Turn 1 Chalice at 1, but he had started with a Goblin Guide and curved into Eidolon. I killed the Eidolon with Sudden Shock, and he played a backup Eidolon. I killed that one, too, but the Guide never hit a land and I had to play my Ancient Tomb to play a creature, and then promptly got Priced out. Game 3 I mulled to four or five in search of either a fast hand or a Chalice and found neither. The matchup is pretty unfavorable, so it was a bummer to not face Miracles, White Eldrazi, or Grixis Delver in the quarters.

As far as today's Amonkhet spoiler, Hazoret isn't better than Chandra, Torch of Defiance. I also would rank Pia and Kiran Nalaar above Hazoret. The only cards indestructibility is helping you dodge are Fatal Push and Maelstrom Pulse, and Pulse is barely played. The main ways other decks are going to interact is with counterspells or discard, or comboing out and not caring. Swords to Plowshares, Terminus, and Council's Judgment are the removal spells to note. I could see Hazoret getting the nod only in matchups like Burn where you would be trying to race, which is when Haste would matter.

[CptHaddock]

Yep, that's my list, with its many unorthodox choices arrived at through testing. I lowered my curve to play well with Prophetic Flamespeaker, and that worked out at the event. I didn't want Rabblemasters, so I explored other creatures. I mainly played the deck to punk all the BUG and four-color decks I expected to see at that 1K. That went as predicted. I ran the Sulfur Elementals in the main to make the Death & Taxes matchup easier. I didn't end up getting paired against D&T, but it was the most-played deck in the room that day, so I feel that was also a correct call. My Swiss rounds were BUG Delver (2-1), Tin Fins (2-0), Sneak & Show (0-2), 4c Loam (2-1), Miracles (2-1), Tin Fins (2-1).


It's pretty cool seeing flamespeaker do well in a stompy shell, i've been trying for a while to get him to work in a janky equipment based build but never had much luck with him. What matchups do you think that he is better than rabblemaster? Hanweir Garrison does seem a lot better if you were expecting a lot of d&t.

[ESG]

It's pretty cool seeing flamespeaker do well in a stompy shell, i've been trying for a while to get him to work in a janky equipment based build but never had much luck with him. What matchups do you think that he is better than rabblemaster? Hanweir Garrison does seem a lot better if you were expecting a lot of d&t.

The reason Flamespeaker worked for me is that I lowered my curve. I wanted to be able to play most of the cards I would exile with it, and that's not feasible in a list running four-drops and five-drops. In a field with more Miracles, I probably would've run some number of Chandra, Torch of Defiance.

I'm not a fan of Rabblemaster. It has a place in Goblin Stompy because it's tutorable, but I didn't want it in my deck. It's a fast clock that's at its best on an empty board, but having to suicide-attack goblins every turn really isn't gaining value. If I was going to maximize Rabblemaster, I would run Sudden Demise, Dismember, and/or Magma Jet to clear out blockers. Or I would focus more on the prison aspect and run Trinisphere. Being able to play Turn 1 Trinisphere into Turn 2 Rabblemaster is where the card is strongest, but I didn't think Trinisphere was well-positioned, so I didn't run any. One of my findings through testing was that X/3 creatures were better-positioned in general. Prophetic Flamespeaker and Hanweir Garrison can attack into a Thalia, and they don't have to worry about trading with a flashed-in Snapcaster Mage. The True-Name decks I expected to see would have horrible manabases that I could turn off with Moons, so I wasn't expecting to have to deal with that card, and I didn't see Merfolk (zero players on that deck in a 56-person tournament). I expected to be able to beat the greedy decks with Moons, and against decks where Moons weren't great, I wanted X/3s instead of X/2s. I also wanted to be proactive, which I why I didn't play any of the flip Werewolves.

Clearly, from the posts in this thread and from well-placing lists in other parts of the world, there are a lot of ways to build a Blood Moon deck and be successful. The key is to always have a plan for each matchup and to have a good idea of what the rest of the field looks like. I don't think I would ever choose to run this at a large event full of unknown decks.

[Mafu13]

I am definitely keen to try at least a 1 of Hazoret. Definitely good in the late game. I think the thing I dislike most about this card is that it can't ping creatures. But it's pretty decent behind a bridge, or when you're in top deck mode. (which we are a lot).


Definitely worth testing.

[CovenantElite30]

By turn 4 I'm generally down to one card anyway. This deck emptys it's hand very quick. Sure Kia is probably a better card but which card would you rather top deck? Hazoret in top deck mode is generally going to be a windmill slam for 5 and probably the game at that point. Hazoret Can close the game out so fast because the next turn your hitting for at least 7 because you just discard and attack. I plan on trying out 2 main.

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[Wichtelman]

I'm not a fan of Rabblemaster.

+ if you play jitte or swords rabble is not really great with it but flamespeaker becomes a lot stronger and garrison does not die to punishing fire and the extra toughness is also better in this version... :cool:
well there are pro and con but i gues as almost always it is just personal or metagame choice...



As far as today's Amonkhet spoiler, Hazoret isn't better than Chandra, Torch of Defiance. I also would rank Pia and Kiran Nalaar above Hazoret. The only cards indestructibility is helping you dodge are Fatal Push and Maelstrom Pulse, and Pulse is barely played. The main ways other decks are going to interact is with counterspells or discard, or comboing out and not caring. Swords to Plowshares, Terminus, and Council's Judgment are the removal spells to note. I could see Hazoret getting the nod only in matchups like Burn where you would be trying to race, which is when Haste would matter.

hm can also see a lot of weird situations with him and to add stuff to the removal list liliana or toxic deluge... still has to be tested in an adjusted list...

[TLK]

Tested the Garrison/Flamespeaker build a little last night. Garrison seemed awesome. The 3-toughness does really make a difference. Flamespeaker wasn't anything crazy. Gets blocked by a lot of things.

[zangoasyl]

Don't ignore trample plus double strike... Many blockers just die and you still deal one damage plus you get one time the exile trigger!
The rr-part of the cost is a huge bummer, though...
I had so many situations in my testing where a few 3-drops with rr on the hand didn't seem too bad first, but I ended up mana screwed way to many times for me still liking the package (with a crome mox being destroyed or something similar)...

On the up side: flamespeaker plus jitte is just neckbreaking, as it is a 2 turn clock that doubles as a more or less board sweeper

[ZTurgeon]

I played Flamespeaker back where there weren't other options, and while the card is good, it just has 3 glaring flaws that I think makes it a worse choice than all the other 3 drops.

1) RR in the cost on a 3 drop is hard. It means that it is incredibly hard to cast ahead of schedule. The less double red on 3 drops the better.

2) The deckbuilding cost of adding in equipment. The true power of Flamespeaker is with equipment. On a flamespeaker, it's basically game over if they don't have removal. That said, you need to have them in your deck, and it's very risky having equipment or vehicles in a stompy style deck. You can often end up with a card doing nothing and that's real bad in this type of deck, especially when the artifacts can't pitch to chrome mox.

3) The lack of speed against combo decks. Flamespeaker is a snowball. It starts later than the other aggressive cards, and only hits for 2, but each turn you are also "drawing" two cards and getting further and further ahead. But against combo decks, it is way better to be able to play a turn 1 rabblemaster (or garrison or sin prodder) than it is to play a turn 2 Flamespeaker and need to hope that the cards you hit with it are castable disruption.

[TLK]

I played Flamespeaker back where there weren't other options, and while the card is good, it just has 3 glaring flaws that I think makes it a worse choice than all the other 3 drops.

1) RR in the cost on a 3 drop is hard. It means that it is incredibly hard to cast ahead of schedule. The less double red on 3 drops the better.

2) The deckbuilding cost of adding in equipment. The true power of Flamespeaker is with equipment. On a flamespeaker, it's basically game over if they don't have removal. That said, you need to have them in your deck, and it's very risky having equipment or vehicles in a stompy style deck. You can often end up with a card doing nothing and that's real bad in this type of deck, especially when the artifacts can't pitch to chrome mox.

3) The lack of speed against combo decks. Flamespeaker is a snowball. It starts later than the other aggressive cards, and only hits for 2, but each turn you are also "drawing" two cards and getting further and further ahead. But against combo decks, it is way better to be able to play a turn 1 rabblemaster (or garrison or sin prodder) than it is to play a turn 2 Flamespeaker and need to hope that the cards you hit with it are castable disruption.

I agree with all of this. The RR cost was a glaring issue. And yes, it was very slow.

[BR3N7]

So anyone else happy wear/tear is going bye-bye from miracles? Nice little free gift for us.

So I tested Hazoret in 10 games and its very good when you drop it turn 1 or 2 but really it was underwhelming overall, not terrible just felt worse than Thundebreak Regent or K/P or Quicksmith. If you could go to the dome like the ladder it really would of been nice or have evasion and bolt built it.

[Ace/Homebrew]

So anyone else happy wear/tear is going bye-bye from miracles? Nice little free gift for us.

How do you figure? I'm under the assumption Miracles will continue to play a 2-for-1 in the sideboard, but now the rules say showing it with a Counterbalance will counter our 3 mana spells.

[L10]

Yeah, the rule change is better for Painter than it is for Dragon Stompy. I doubt many people will switch over to Disenchant because Miracles would actually like more three drops anyways, especially since Predict Miracles has the one and two drops pretty much well covered.

[Noctalor]

https://i.gyazo.com/12df9a0d15126581b10f9416093a62c6.jpg

[potatodavid]

https://i.gyazo.com/12df9a0d15126581b10f9416093a62c6.jpg

Might be rabblemaster's BFF.

[potatodavid]

Well that and how 2 of them is 3x combat phases, and 4 is 5x combat phases....

[ZTurgeon]

He hits like a truck and might be worth it, but trading with a DRS is some real downside.

[Ace/Homebrew]

His biggest upside is the interaction with Goblin Rabblemaster (extra tokens and extra power added to Rabble). His biggest downside is that Rabblemaster exists and is an all around better card. :rolleyes:

Edit: On the plus side, he 'goes infinite' with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Maybe there's something there?

[AceOfJacks]

This Monday I had 2 copies of Everlasting Tormemt in my sideboard. It was hilarious against Sneak and Show. Opponent brought in a Griselbrand, and couldn't gain life to stabilize. Sin Prodder slipped past him and killed in one hit.

The real reason I tried it was specifically for the lifegain. There have been a lot of Batterskulls and Griselbrands in my store for the Monday weeklies. Let's see how it pans out.

[Sergi]

This Monday I had 2 copies of Everlasting Tormemt in my sideboard. It was hilarious against Sneak and Show. Opponent brought in a Griselbrand, and couldn't gain life to stabilize. Sin Prodder slipped past him and killed in one hit.

The real reason I tried it was specifically for the lifegain. There have been a lot of Batterskulls and Griselbrands in my store for the Monday weeklies. Let's see how it pans out.

Together with fiery confluence is an excellent unpreventable sweeper. Has uses against d&t (bypass moms) bug - true names, levolds, etc.
With rabblemaster blocked tokens can reduce tarmogoyf seize.

[Wichtelman]

This Monday I had 2 copies of Everlasting Tormemt in my sideboard. It was hilarious against Sneak and Show. Opponent brought in a Griselbrand, and couldn't gain life to stabilize. Sin Prodder slipped past him and killed in one hit.

The real reason I tried it was specifically for the lifegain. There have been a lot of Batterskulls and Griselbrands in my store for the Monday weeklies. Let's see how it pans out.

well why everlasting torment then?
if your prob is something like that a card like icy manipulator would deal with it but would not be dead if they put in emrakul... also deals with mother or any protection and can tap goyf + 20/20 indestructible tokens or basic lands...
just to compare both cards with everlasting you still can lose the dmg race but dmg based removal gets stronger VS 1 mana activation of icy manipulator that will win you the race against almost anything... :-P
okok you could kill leovold or true-name IF you also have removal at that point but thats still a 2 card combo to deal with 1 problem and else it is useless...

[zangoasyl]

well why everlasting torment then?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/131/143/200/283/636270050316551992.png

might be a better alternative as well

[Wichtelman]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/131/143/200/283/636270050316551992.png

might be a better alternative as well

hm you can not target true-name with the second half and confluence + insult = 7 mana... picking narrow cards wont help much cuz most of the time you will not get the other part and lose cuz you just do nothing... dont get me wrong here if everlasting would deal with true-name on itself ok but else i just do not see it... even a card like sun droplet is stronger on its own vs true-name... a card like meekstone also deals with it if you dont want bridge...

[CovenantElite30]

Any of you guys make it to the Worcester Starcity open?

I didn't see any lists in the top 32.

[ZTurgeon]

Any of you guys make it to the Worcester Starcity open?

I didn't see any lists in the top 32.

Scrubbed in day 1. Beat bad matchups, and got really in losing to some good ones (Eldrazi had the turn 1 dismember for Magus into TKS, Bricked off for 9-10 turns against 4c control and died to a single deathrite shaman with a moon out, Belcher mulls to 6 and gets 16 goblins beating my turn 1 null rod before I could play the trinisphere)

[BR3N7]

So Harsh Mentor totally seems legit.

[CovenantElite30]

So Harsh Mentor totally seems legit.
I thought about it. It's definitely a sideboard card against miracles. What would you play this over?

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[Zirath]

I thought about it. It's definitely a sideboard card against miracles. What would you play this over?

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Thunderbreak Regent. It hoses the same decks and promotes our burst damage plan well. It also puts pressure under Bridge.

With Eldrazi falling, Regent is definitely becoming weaker and Mentor is strong against the other decks that Regent was strong against.

[Wichtelman]

Thunderbreak Regent. It hoses the same decks and promotes our burst damage plan well. It also puts pressure under Bridge.

With Eldrazi falling, Regent is definitely becoming weaker and Mentor is strong against the other decks that Regent was strong against.

hm while the cards seems to be decent im not so sure it fits in our deck... it really just shines if you have no other lock-piece or is terrible in combat and does not work vs planeswalkers...
lets say you play vs d&t put him into play t1 and opp has mother + stoneforge into batter = ignore the 2-4 dmg OR if they get jitte they take 4 dmg and kill it...

which combo does it shut down? one upside vs top is that it is red compared to revoker...

[BR3N7]

I took Suppression Mentor to Untap and I think its good but not sure if its better than Revoker.


Pros after 5 games:
It's Red
Made Fetches do 3
Worked well against lands like WL/Port when moon wasn't live.
It Rekt Top and was great vs DRS.

Cons:
Not being able to hit Plainswalkers

Like its good but I would rather of had Suppression Fields effect than the Damage which is why as of right now I don't see it working better than Revoker. I could see this working better in my pet White Soldier Stompy deck and making it more Human based.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Harsh Mentor deserves a second look, but I'm not sure it warrants a spot in the main deck. It looks like a fairly good sideboard card (D&T and Miracles come to mind), but it would be better if it stopped or resisted rather than dealt damage.

[Karhumies]

I think that Harsh Mentor is a more versatile MD card in our 1-3x flex slots than Thunderbreak Regent because it's not as dead vs. combo decks. If you are looking for hoser cards in this slot, MD Phyrexian Revoker is probably what you are looking for; for filtering effects, Smuggler's Copter seems solid. But Harsh Mentor seems "not awful" in any MU in g1, which IMO makes it a strong contender for MD. Not dying to Fiery Confluence AoE 1 (like Revoker dies to it) is a nice bonus as well.

Post SB, IMO we have stronger SB hosers available for specific MUs.

[TLK]

I took Suppression Mentor to Untap and I think its good but not sure if its better than Revoker.


Pros after 5 games:
It's Red
Made Fetches do 3
Worked well against lands like WL/Port when moon wasn't live.
It Rekt Top and was great vs DRS.

Cons:
Not being able to hit Plainswalkers

Like its good but I would rather of had Suppression Fields effect than the Damage which is why as of right now I don't see it working better than Revoker. I could see this working better in my pet White Soldier Stompy deck and making it more Human based.

Technically, it can indirectly hit 'walkers by redirecting the damage. I know you meant 'walker activations, but this is at least something.

[Valleysdai]

Has decree of annihilation been discussed for the cycling against various decks from the sideboard?

[CovenantElite30]

Has decree of annihilation been discussed for the cycling against various decks from the sideboard?
What decks would you bring this in against?

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[Valleysdai]

What decks would you bring this in against?

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Miracles for one, maybe eldrazi if you can get blood moon out. Apologies if it seems stupid, I'm trying to think outside the box to improve the deck

[Zirath]

Miracles for one, maybe eldrazi if you can get blood moon out. Apologies if it seems stupid, I'm trying to think outside the box to improve the deck

The only issue is that those are both favorable match ups so a card like decree isn't necessary.

[Valleysdai]

What is the latest stock list?

[jandax]

His biggest upside is the interaction with Goblin Rabblemaster (extra tokens and extra power added to Rabble). His biggest downside is that Rabblemaster exists and is an all around better card. :rolleyes:

Edit: On the plus side, he 'goes infinite' with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Maybe there's something there?

He's not tutorable though so that isnt good synergy

[ZTurgeon]

He's not tutorable though so that isnt good synergy

He has plenty on synergy. You just can't run it as a tutorable bullet.

If you have him and any other threat, you basically get to kill on an uninterrupted board. Any combo of this and/or Rabblemaster kills on turn 3.

If you play rabble on turn 1, and rabble on turn 2, by turn 3 you will have dealt 30 damage.

If you play Celebrant on turn 1 and Celebrant on turn 2, by turn 3 you will have dealt 20 damage.

If you play Celebrant on turn 1 and Rabble on turn 2, by turn 3 you would heave dealt 26 damage.

If you play a turn 1 Rabble and a turn 2 Celebrant, by turn 3 you would have dealt 32 damage.


If you are playing 4 Rabbles, 4 Celebrant, 19 lands (including 8 sol lands), 4 chrome mox and 4 Simian Spirit Guide, you have just under a 20% chance to have one of these combinations happen. This means that against a deck like like sneak and show, if you are on the play, they now need to kill you on their turn 2 (or have a force of will) 1/5th of the time. That is a huge upside on what is a bad matchup, and for the cost of running a card that already seems good in the deck.

If you were to try and fit them in the Moggcatcher build to have max access to a infinite combo finish, the deck can just barely squeeze them in.



4x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Goblin Settler
4x Combat Celebrant
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Moggcatcher
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Siege-Gang Commander
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Stingscourger

4x Blood Moon

2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
2x Trinisphere

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain



It's certainly an avenue that I am looking at in the future.

[Valleysdai]

Top has been banned, thoughts?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Time to break out the Trinispheres! :cool:

[P210]

Hellbent strategy viable again?

[CovenantElite30]

Top has been banned, thoughts?
Well I can free up some sideboard slots now that I mainly had for the miracles matchup. Cards I'm considering cutting now are boil, a couple sulfide elemental and a revoker. Any other suggestions I'm open to.

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[Valleysdai]

Well I can free up some sideboard slots now that I mainly had for the miracles matchup. Cards I'm considering cutting now are boil, a couple sulfide elemental and a revoker. Any other suggestions I'm open to.

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What are you thinking of replacing them with?

[BR3N7]

So this either got substantially better or stays the same.

If Elves,Lands,Leo decks,ANT,TES and even Burn are the biggest benefactors then we got nothing but positives out of this outside of Burn, the flip side is if SNT becomes a very popular deck, not the worst but not the best thing either.

Our big hope is Elves is a top 3 deck, this is for 2 MAJOR reasons. A) Its a great MU and B) It pushes DnT which a bad MU down a bit.

I think my deck won't change much but as mentioned above I feel Revoker and Sulfurs are not as strong as they were before this but cards like Thunderbreak/Rabblemaster became a LOT stronger as Verdict is now the main sweeper and the moon effects make that VERY hard to cast:



4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thunderbreak Regent

3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon

3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Revoker

Main Deck Cards I think I can change now or don't seem as good: 1 Rolling Earthquake (While the Sweeper effect is nice I really liked it vs Miracles as a mana sink), if your running the 4th Chandra I feel 3 is correct now.

SB: 1-2 Revoker, 1-2 Sulfur Elemental.

Cards that seem a lot better are Ensnaring Bridge, Mindbreak Trap, Thorn of Amethyst, Jitte, Sudden Shock, moon effects, Fierys and Thunderbreak/Rabblemaster.

I can see going with 2 Magma Jets in the main and shaving the 11th mountain but Sudden is so much better vs DRS which will be running rampant so I might just put 1 of those in the main over the Rolling EQ.

I think I won't change to much and take the wait and see approach, got a event in 2 weeks and I will be running 70/75 and will finally be making changes after a few months of me liking the 75.

[Zirath]

I think with Miracles being dead there's even less reason to play Thunderbreak Regent. In my experience, it's biggest draw was as an answer to Jace as well as impossible to remove safely. I'm going to try swapping them for Harsh Mentor in the interim knowing that Miracles was one of the best match ups for it, but I expect Elves to be one of the three decks that will be big (alongside DnT and Lands). If fast combo inundates the meta (other than Elves), I will probably bring Trinisphere back into the main deck (no more than 2 copies). Depending on the meta shift, Thunderbreak may come back in but I always found myself not overly thrilled with him since we have become a Bridge deck frequently.

Sulfur Elemental could be cut completely now if you are expecting little DnT. It's an extra boost against them but Fiery Confluence is monstrously strong.

I do have a concern for Stoneblade/Maverick re-entering the format since they are traditionally match ups that gave us trouble. However, given that we have so many new tools, this may not be a big deal (praise Fiery Confluence, destroyer of boards).

In addition, based on the fact that this deck has not only radically changed from the 2011-2012 era where it died, do we need a new primer? Necro hasn't been on in a very long time and the current primer is extremely outdated. As this deck has been my primary focus since GP Chiba, I would enjoy writing up a new skeleton.

[ZTurgeon]

I think with Miracles being dead there's even less reason to play Thunderbreak Regent. In my experience, it's biggest draw was as an answer to Jace as well as impossible to remove safely. I'm going to try swapping them for Harsh Mentor in the interim knowing that Miracles was one of the best match ups for it, but I expect Elves to be one of the three decks that will be big (alongside DnT and Lands). If fast combo inundates the meta (other than Elves), I will probably bring Trinisphere back into the main deck (no more than 2 copies). Depending on the meta shift, Thunderbreak may come back in but I always found myself not overly thrilled with him since we have become a Bridge deck frequently.

Sulfur Elemental could be cut completely now if you are expecting little DnT. It's an extra boost against them but Fiery Confluence is monstrously strong.

I do have a concern for Stoneblade/Maverick re-entering the format since they are traditionally match ups that gave us trouble. However, given that we have so many new tools, this may not be a big deal (praise Fiery Confluence, destroyer of boards).

In addition, based on the fact that this deck has not only radically changed from the 2011-2012 era where it died, do we need a new primer? Necro hasn't been on in a very long time and the current primer is extremely outdated. As this deck has been my primary focus since GP Chiba, I would enjoy writing up a new skeleton.

I've actually been working on a new Primer for a little while now, but was waiting for the new set because of the high rate of possible red cards entering the deck. It certainly needs one.

[Zirath]

I've actually been working on a new Primer for a little while now, but was waiting for the new set because of the high rate of possible red cards entering the deck. It certainly needs one.

Let's coordinate. I can PM you and we can push something out in May to prep for Vegas.

[jandax]

He has plenty on synergy. You just can't run it as a tutorable bullet.

If you have him and any other threat, you basically get to kill on an uninterrupted board. Any combo of this and/or Rabblemaster kills on turn 3.

If you play rabble on turn 1, and rabble on turn 2, by turn 3 you will have dealt 30 damage.

If you play Celebrant on turn 1 and Celebrant on turn 2, by turn 3 you will have dealt 20 damage.

If you play Celebrant on turn 1 and Rabble on turn 2, by turn 3 you would heave dealt 26 damage.

If you play a turn 1 Rabble and a turn 2 Celebrant, by turn 3 you would have dealt 32 damage.


If you are playing 4 Rabbles, 4 Celebrant, 19 lands (including 8 sol lands), 4 chrome mox and 4 Simian Spirit Guide, you have just under a 20% chance to have one of these combinations happen. This means that against a deck like like sneak and show, if you are on the play, they now need to kill you on their turn 2 (or have a force of will) 1/5th of the time. That is a huge upside on what is a bad matchup, and for the cost of running a card that already seems good in the deck.

If you were to try and fit them in the Moggcatcher build to have max access to a infinite combo finish, the deck can just barely squeeze them in.




It's certainly an avenue that I am looking at in the future.

This is all good math, but are you saying that going forward aggro with the inclusion of celebrant is the way to go? I like the list but would argue to add more disruptive cards like trinisphere and confluence, but that's more from a gut feeling because i don't have any data to back if up. Gonna play the goblinbuild Sunday and see what the new format looks like

[ZTurgeon]

This is all good math, but are you saying that going forward aggro with the inclusion of celebrant is the way to go? I like the list but would argue to add more disruptive cards like trinisphere and confluence, but that's more from a gut feeling because i don't have any data to back if up. Gonna play the goblinbuild Sunday and see what the new format looks like

I don't know if it's right to play this version, but its certainly an option to take. I will say you need less disruptive elements with the goblin builds, as moggcatcher is disruptive in addition to being a threat (bounces, shatters, stone rains, fogs and shocks). But yes, with the way things are going, it's possible you need more disruptive elements.

I'm certainly trying the Celebrants once they are legal to see if the additional aggression can make up some for some issues against A+B combo decks.

[Wichtelman]

I've actually been working on a new Primer for a little while now, but was waiting for the new set because of the high rate of possible red cards entering the deck. It certainly needs one.


Let's coordinate. I can PM you and we can push something out in May to prep for Vegas.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/696135-primer-air-all-in-red-aka-dragon-stompy

updating it but it is a lot of work to do alone and if english is just your second language...

[Valleysdai]

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/696135-primer-air-all-in-red-aka-dragon-stompy

updating it but it is a lot of work to do alone and if english is just your second language...

I just finished reading it, it's good, I am happy to help if you need any.

I noticed that you don't have a bridge stompy version, this version would have several different match ups from what I can tell. Are you keeping miracles there to show how the match up was?

[Wichtelman]

I just finished reading it, it's good, I am happy to help if you need any.

I noticed that you don't have a bridge stompy version, this version would have several different match ups from what I can tell. Are you keeping miracles there to show how the match up was?

well it was written in may 2016 and ive not updated it since the top ban... there is a bridge version even if there are just 3 in that build... "sample-version-2"

just have written it to update the mtg salvation primer as the creator wasnt seen since ages... sadly moderators or admin is not able to update the primer till the forum gets an update... little bit strange but whatever...

would be happy about any input... specially after the top ban matchups will be different and i havnt played vs foodchain for example...

maybe im able to buy all cards on mtgo and also stream it that way i could be up to date in the matchup section...

[jandax]

I don't know if it's right to play this version, but its certainly an option to take. I will say you need less disruptive elements with the goblin builds, as moggcatcher is disruptive in addition to being a threat (bounces, shatters, stone rains, fogs and shocks). But yes, with the way things are going, it's possible you need more disruptive elements.

I'm certainly trying the Celebrants once they are legal to see if the additional aggression can make up some for some issues against A+B combo decks.
Gobbos is a preference of mine and it suites my play style. On top of that I'd argue that the deck needs more disruption to play gobbos because while moggcatcher is a do-all toolbox it has to get on line first meaning one needs time to do all those shenanigans

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[Mafu13]

Assuming I am running the Stock Standard List (prodders, Chandras, Rabbles, 2-3 Trinis, ThunderBreaks), what main deck alterations would I need to make to move E-Bridges to the Maindeck? Would I remove Rabbles? Do I play Koth?


I also saw in Railbird Gamings latest vid, he had 4 Leyline of White (Sanctity?) in the SB as well as Leyline of Black, to help improve Storm and Burn matchups. Thoughts on that?

[AceOfJacks]

Assuming I am running the Stock Standard List (prodders, Chandras, Rabbles, 2-3 Trinis, ThunderBreaks), what main deck alterations would I need to make to move E-Bridges to the Maindeck? Would I remove Rabbles? Do I play Koth?


I also saw in Railbird Gamings latest vid, he had 4 Leyline of White (Sanctity?) in the SB as well as Leyline of Black, to help improve Storm and Burn matchups. Thoughts on that?

Thunderbreak plus Bridge is a bad idea. I usually cut TBreak when I side in Bridge.
Leyline of the Void is a good card for us, but Sancitity is unnecessary. Trinisphere usually does the job when combined with Chalices on the correct numbers.
I also believe 1-2 Koth of the Hammer is correct. 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance minimum, 4 recommended.

[Karhumies]

Leyline of Sanctity sounds like anti-burn, anti-spot discard and anti-Belcher/storm targetting tech to me. It's a niche card which can steal games if it catches the opponent with their pants down. Especially against t1 combo decks when we are on the draw. But unless you are running Smuggler's Copter or another filtering tool, drawing into copies means deawing into dead cards. Thorn of Amethyst and extra copies of Trinisphere are feasible alternatives.

[Wichtelman]

Leyline of Sanctity sounds like anti-burn, anti-spot discard and anti-Belcher/storm targetting tech to me. It's a niche card which can steal games if it catches the opponent with their pants down. Especially against t1 combo decks when we are on the draw. But unless you are running Smuggler's Copter or another filtering tool, drawing into copies means deawing into dead cards. Thorn of Amethyst and extra copies of Trinisphere are feasible alternatives.

aswell as mindbreak trap if you have to worry about t1 combo... if it is vs burn trini + jitte should be enough paired with chalice...

[Karhumies]

Played in a 9 player 3 round tournament today, post top ban. Lost all coin flips but went 3-0. The meta was Monored stompy (me), Opalescence combo (r1 2-0), Imperial painter (r2 2-1), 2x Grixis delver (r3 2-1 super tight MU thanks to losing coin flip and Young pyro + Probe + Pierce + Angler + Therapy), 4c goodstuff, infect (only one that went 0-3), Food chain and Dredge. I had no idea what my opponents were playing g1 and neither did they because we played in individual tables, the rounds ended semi quickly due to only 4 matches simultaneously and there were insufficient opportunities to scout.

What I knew about the meta when making last minute changes was 1 infect, 1 dredge, most likely 0 D&T, most likely 0 elves, most likely 0 reanimator, most likely at least 1 delver deck when I was making last moment SB changes.

Core 39:
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

Typical extra 16 (non Moggcatcher, non Werewolf):
4 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Trinisphere

Flex 5:
4th Chandra (was semi-useless, drew into multiples too many times)
4th Fiery Confluence (got my 4th one 2min before tournament started. exceeded my expectations, always great card in multiples unless no RR mana available)
1 Thunderbreak Regent (underperformed: drew it once, got Dazed)
1 Quicksmith Rebel (never drew this)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (never drew this)

SB:
Core 9:
2 Faerie Macabre (never SB'd in but essential to have)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (always so great, even vs DRS, that I keep running 0-1-2 in MD flex slots occasionally. Not sure if running 0 md 2 sb was the right meta call, could have been 1-1 or 2-0 instead of the 0-2.)
2 Pyroblast (never drew this)
2 Pyrokinesis (never SB'd in)
1 Ensnaring Bridge

Last minute calls - 6:
2 Thorn of Amethyst (was completely useless)
2 Sudden Shock (underperformed)
1 Rolling Earthquake (never drew this)
1 Chaos Warp (catch-all for weird metas)
0 Sulfur Elemental (typically I have 2 for DnT)
Faerie Macabre 3 -> 2

All in all, I feel like we have extra SB space now which is difficult to fill. I am not thoroughly convinced by Sulfur Elemental, Sudden Shock, Thorn of Amethyst in post-top meta. Mindbreak Trap/Trinisphere over Thorn? Sudden Demise/Rolling Earthquake/Pyroclasm/Volcanic Fallout/Tears of Valakut over Sudden Shock? Jitte/Batterskull/Ensnaring Bridge over Sulfur elemental?

Avalanche Riders/Stone Rain/Goblin Settler to deal with basics?

How are we dealing with Angler/Tombstalker/bloated Tarmogoyf post SB?

[Wichtelman]

All in all, I feel like we have extra SB space now which is difficult to fill. I am not thoroughly convinced by Sulfur Elemental, Sudden Shock, Thorn of Amethyst in post-top meta. Mindbreak Trap/Trinisphere over Thorn? Sudden Demise/Rolling Earthquake/Pyroclasm/Volcanic Fallout/Tears of Valakut over Sudden Shock? Jitte/Batterskull/Ensnaring Bridge over Sulfur elemental?

Avalanche Riders/Stone Rain/Goblin Settler to deal with basics?

How are we dealing with Angler/Tombstalker/bloated Tarmogoyf post SB?

1. always depends on your metagame... i try a lot of stuff and can tell that it is really random... if you think thorn was useless then try trap or trini but keep in mind that each card has its weakness and strenght and its the same for removal but i like pyrokinesis...

2+3. if you are not playing the goblin version those choices seem pretty weak... i try icy manipulator in that slot cuz if deals with both and is ok vs reanimator or show and tell or also vs the 20/20 token...



maybe im able to buy all cards on mtgo and also stream it that way i could be up to date in the matchup section...

my first impression is that the more aggressive version has more issues in the new meta cuz of the stoneblade return and their tons of basics... while the more controlish version has more issues to draw gas if opp can deal with 1-2 lock pieces and you know most of the time multiple bridges or trinis are terrible... that said atm i think you have stronger hands and better win % with the bridge/trini control version...

[onemancannon]

What started as a way to cast Leyline of the void against GY based strategies turned into something interesting:

My current mana base is 8 sol-lands, 7 mountain, 4 badlands
Maindecking Badlands was a way to mitigate my frustration drawing a Leyline later. It would take two moxen imprinting LotV plus a third in hand to be able to hardcast the thing.

What happened against non-reanimator builds was interesting. For example, an opponent was more willing to Wasteland a Badlands before targeting a Sol Land. I'd like to assume that they thought they were cutting me off of :b:. T1 mox + Tomb followed by T2 Badlands. Being wasted surprisingly still left me 3 mana to cast stuff.

Granted, this has only come up in a couple games, but it caught my attention. Running more non basics doesn't make Burn any worse of a matchup than it already is. I have yet to open with a Badlands T1 and get cut off of R for the following turns. Food for thought I suppose.

I was at Worcester, started 0-2. Rd1 loss to D&t, Rd2 loss to miracles (Probably a giant misplay of racing a Snap with Chandra down in G3. His Tops were phenomenal, I'll cut multiple times but won't shuffle another persons deck after Bryant Cook's BS got destroyed). And then I went on a killing spree for 5 rounds against ANT, 4c Delver, Miracles (in 9:50 :laugh:) , RB Goblins, URB Tezz Control before a third loss to D&t in Rd8.

[Valleysdai]

Took a monstrosity of a dragon stompy list (no rabblemasters or chrome mox) to fnm, went 2-2.

Round 1:
BW tokens 2-1

Won with pia and Kiran, siege-gang commander (yes he was a replacement for 1 rabblemaster). Chalice on 2 wrecked him game 3.

Round 2:
Burn 2-1

Lost game 1 to double fireblast after I didn't tap ancient tomb for several turns.

Chalice on 1 and then on 2 wrecks them especially with a trinisphere.

Round 3:
Jund 0-2

Game 1 was a really close battle, I even survived a lili ult. Then he sacced his own bob when on 3 life. Then he top decks a maelstrom pulse and kills me with tarmos.
Game 2 I get mana screwed (stuck on 2 lands with bridge in hand).

Round 4:
Elves 1-2

Completely locked them out game 1.

Game 2 kept a hand that was too slow.

Game 3 got mana flooded with a bridge on board (3 cities in hand).

Overall pleasantly surprised but ecstatic that I got 4 rabblemasters and a 2nd pia and Kiran.