[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[CovenantElite30]

Although the mirror is generally very unfun, I enjoyed this match. As I told Jeff in chat I didn't know the planeswalker rule kicked in early before the official release of IXL. I've since been playing a list with 3 chandra, pyromaster. Not a fan of 6 mana cards so I'm not playing flamecaller, and I like just playing more pyromasters vs cloister because it's more flexible and not an artifact.

Not in front of my PC at the moment but I'll post the list tonight. Got a 5-0 this morning with it, it's been strong. Also playing 3 sorcerous spyglass in the board and I'm going to try 4. It's been incredible at dealing with cards we traditionally struggle against, namely JTMS, EE, pernicious deed while also being flexible enough to always do something even when we're not naming a scary card.Do you have the deck list for your 5-0? Did you record your matches?


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[Manipulato]

Do you have the deck list for your 5-0? Did you record your matches?


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http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17027&d=305342&f=LE

[claulis]

Then again, it could be that the days of traditional stompy are over. I've gotten this notion after playing in several tournaments over the past year or two that our creatures, vis à vis wincons, are outclassed most of the time. Winning in the red zone isnt what it was. Perhaps the debate over rabbles vs garrison vs arc slogger etc is moot. Do we need to just go oops, all Chandras and bridges and sweepers? This is a legit question

I think so as well. As much as I like rable/garrison and smashing in. I played a lot of games the last 2 weeks with the garrison and then I cut them wanting a sweeper or lock or mana. I think the meta hate (online at least) has tuned to creatures and makes creature threats not the best right now. I am running 2/4 split pyromancer/torch and I am still running 2x Hazoret. With chalice on 1 and Indestructible I feel this is pretty safe, Hazoret has won the game itself with just the discard ability more than once for me.

Here is my list for reference
before
https://imgur.com/zYn7jRz
MD:
-4 Garrison
+1 Lotus Petal
+1 Fiery Confluence
+2 Rolling EQ

SB:
-1 Abrade
+1 Trinisphere

after
https://imgur.com/ucEDiPc

[korstructure]

Hey Stompinistas:

Tournament impressions for the advancement of the deck and your own play.

Mox Boarding House Legacy Preservation Series 1k
9/30/17
1st place (68 competitors)
5-1-1 in swiss
Moon Walker Stompy (inspired by JA Eliso's list here (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/770921#paper))
Watch the VOD here (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/178698993?t=08h53m00s) while you can

List:

4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Koth of the Hammer
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Hazoret the Fervent

4x Blood Moon
3x Magus of the Moon

4x Fiery Confluence
3x Rolling Earthquake

3x Trinisphere
3x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Sorcerous Spyglass

4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
11x Mountain

SB:
4x Faerie Macabre
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Pyrostatic Pillar
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Null Brooch
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
3x Chaos Warp
1x Ghirapur Aether Grid

Reasoning for this deck:

Meta. Despite my own solid results tinkering with a Grixis Control list for several 1k events, I decided to stop fighting fire with fire and instead use water - a soaking, drenching, tidal wave of water. Dragon Stompy tosses cold water all over my local meta which strongly mirrors the online meta (Czech Pile, flavors of SFM control, and creature decks). Furthermore, there are a number of "zaggers" who opt to try to beat those decks (Lands and Aggro Loam players, for example). Moon Stompy has a positive matchup against all of those decks and more, therefore I chose this deck. There were a few more "zaggers" than expected at this event and many Burn players showed up, thankfully I dodged most of them.
Recent deck advancements. The advancements in the deck have been phenomenal recently. Moving AWAY from creatures and embracing the direction to which Fiery Confluence naturally moves us is the BEST direction for us. Rolling Earthquake was a great find as Fiery Confluences #5, 6, and 7.
Rules changes and Ixalan. Chandra, Pyromaster is much better than Bottled Cloister (though I did very much enjoy playing the latter). Playing her side-by-side with our MVP Chandra, Torch of Defiance is a great feeling. Also, Sorcerous Spyglass from Ixalan is super real, which I'll expand on below.


Individual cards:

Chandra, Pyromaster. While I didn't go as far as the Chandra Stompy list posted earlier in the thread, I did include Chandra, Pyromaster in my list. I would go up to two next time. She is great and excellent alongside Chandra, Torch of Defiance. I never used her +1 but I could see where it might be useful. The planeswalker rules change is great. I haven't given any thought to using other Chandras, as Chandra, Pyromaster was an easy upgrade over Bottled Cloister. However, I wouldn't rule them out. Koth of the Hammer was solid but my next list will likely trim him to 1. I also might cut Hazoret in favor of another planeswalker.
Sorcerous Spyglass. This card is real. It dodges our own creature sweepers AND isn't a 1-drop (Chalice). The peek effect is surprisingly strong. Look, this deck is all about making sorcery speed choices NOW that will affect the rest of the game. When you get to look at your opponent's hand at any point in that continuum, you fundamentally change your own decision-making. Sorcerous Spyglass should be a staple in this deck going forward. With that said...
Faerie Macabre. Every out that my opponent's would sideboard in to beat me were designed to blow up permanents. Don't play more permanents, if you can help it. Faerie Macabre is better than Leyline of the Void for just that reason. Yes, there will be some % of games you lose because Macabre doesn't do enough, but I think the games you would lose because they can eventually beat your Leyline before your (slow) clock finishes them off are much more frequent.
Chaos Warp. Yeah, this card is just what the doctor ordered. I think the card speaks for itself. Great catch all against troublesome permanents. The "drawback" is whatever and pretty entertaining, to boot.
Rolling Earthquake. What a great find! Not sure who first implemented this card, but it complements Fiery Confluence. A few times I used it to "shorten" the game and KO my opponent. Besides its obvious creature sweeping effect, it also speeds up your clock to end the game instead of giving your opponent three or four more draw steps as you slowly deal 2 to them per turn with Chandra, TOD +1. Great card but I can see that three copies of it might be too much, depending on your meta.
Abrade. I'd like to try this card next time. There were a couple situations where I'd prefer to have Abrade over other cards in my SB.


General deck impressions:

Away creatures, hello prison. Yeah, we've been moving this way ever since Fiery Confluence became a four-of. Embrace it. Fiery Confluence is one of the best cards ever gifted to this archetype. It's anti-synergistic with goblins (whether caught or rabbled), revokers, rebels, etc. Just keep going with Rolling Earthquake. Embrace the sweep. Embrace the prison. I think that, if the meta were to be filled with Miracles in the future, a deck that incorporates creatures might be best... otherwise, let's please continue advancing the prison direction.
Burn is really hard to beat. Not sure what to do about this. I guess we just hope to dodge? I wonder if there are cards to shore up the UR Delver matchup that might also be good here...
ANT is really easy to beat. We can cut some SB hate and focus on other matchups.
Sneak/Show and OmniSneak. Let's use our SB space here. Ideas for best cards?
Add a lotus petal. I've seen this in recent deck lists and I like the change. Would consider for next time.
Yeah, this deck is great. The recent changes and updates have made this a more robust deck. Maybe we can keep it secret for a while longer...


This was a great event and I highly encourage you all to attend one if you're in the area! Plenty of knowledgeable and skilled opponents. Among my prizes included an invitation to the "Legacy Preservation Series Invitational", which will be held in July. If you like watching Legacy streams, Card Kingdom streams every week on Mondays and once a month on a Saturday for these 1k's. You can catch me casting on there regularly and I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Would love your guys' impressions. Enjoy the VOD. I've added a few notes in the chat to some of the more apparently "puzzling" lines I had in the finals. I'm no expert with the deck and I sometimes miss triggers (don't we all) but I hope you enjoy the ride! I play against a gamely and courteous Eldrazi Taxes opponent - some of the highlights include T1 Chandra, TOD and gain the Monarch with SSG!

[AceOfJacks]

Regular Rolling Earthquake = 60$ ...
FTV FOIL Rolling Earthquake = 4$ ...
And I fucking hate, abhor, detest, vehemently oppose, and loathe foils. Fuck ... my ... life ...

[bruizar]

If you're going with confluence AND abrade, I'd make a case for a one-off liquimetal coating. You can side in leyline of sanctity against burn but that's also not a guarantee. When you're sporting ancient tombs, burn is going to be tough.

[ZTurgeon]

If you're going with confluence AND abrade, I'd make a case for a one-off liquimetal coating.

I couldn't disagree more. In a deck with no selection, you shouldn't run bad cards to make good card better.

[korstructure]

I couldn't disagree more. In a deck with no selection, you shouldn't run bad cards to make good card better.

Agree with ZTurgeon. Though, there might be a future when there are enough of these split utility cards that a deck like this could work. There would have to be a hefty critical mass of quality cards at each CMC, though.

[Jelmerz77]

If Burn is heavy in your meta you could opt for a couple of Dragon's Claw in the Sideboard. Since both sides of the table play red that should keep you alive for a while.

[korstructure]

If Burn is heavy in your meta you could opt for a couple of Dragon's Claw in the Sideboard. Since both sides of the table play red that should keep you alive for a while.

Intriguing idea! Thank you. Another suggestion I heard was using Godo, Bandit Warlord along with Batterskull. Might be reasonable. Unfortunately for all of these suggestions: Burn sideboards in up to 4 Smash to Smithereens (and at least 2) against us. Regardless, it might be better than nothing!

[Jelmerz77]

Intriguing idea! Thank you. Another suggestion I heard was using Godo, Bandit Warlord along with Batterskull. Might be reasonable. Unfortunately for all of these suggestions: Burn sideboards in up to 4 Smash to Smithereens (and at least 2) against us. Regardless, it might be better than nothing!

Yes but their main smash targets will be your 4 Chalice of the Void and the 3/4 Trinisphere. Those will remain their biggest headache. I think if you can get them to "waste" as Smash on your Dragon's Claw that doesn't sound too bad :smile:

[jandax]

Yes but their main smash targets will be your 4 Chalice of the Void and the 3/4 Trinisphere. Those will remain their biggest headache. I think if you can get them to "waste" as Smash on your Dragon's Claw that doesn't sound too bad [emoji2]The real card we lose to is sulfuric vortex. That blanks dragons claw too. Therefore chaos warp would seem to be the best option available to prison and stompy alike. Burn can be winnable with sick draws but I am just a bye for it so more sideboard slots for me.



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[pinkfrosting]

2 5-0's so far with this ridiculous pile of garbage.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/780894#paper

This deck is no longer a random hate deck. We're big enough in the meta that decks are running basics now specifically to combat moon effects. Normally this isn't an issue, turning off 1 color or the ability to make two of a color is often enough backed by a threat. I've found this plan does not work though against czech pile and grixis control. They can too easily play every card in their hand with only one basic and a deathrite or two basics. Even cut off a color completely they can still answer many of the cards in our deck with just K-command. These decks dominate the meta right now making every league often 2 or 3 matches against a flavor 0f this deck. I tested virtually every modal card that can also destroy target land, out of those the best were Pillage and Violent Impact. Despite all the modes I too often found them not flexible enough.

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

[Lyle Hopkins]

Intriguing idea! Thank you. Another suggestion I heard was using Godo, Bandit Warlord along with Batterskull. Might be reasonable. Unfortunately for all of these suggestions: Burn sideboards in up to 4 Smash to Smithereens (and at least 2) against us. Regardless, it might be better than nothing!

I've seen some people run Sun Droplet, but I haven't tested it much myself. Unfortunately, it also gets destroyed by Smash to Smithereens.

If you want to go really deep with a sideboard card for "OmniSneak", there is always Confusion in the Ranks. :laugh:

Congratulations on the big win!


Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

I love your Burning Wish list! I'll certainly be testing something similar moving forward. :smile:

I've been thinking about the recent planeswalker builds and I'm reminded of these lists from 2014.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=76931

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13668&iddeck=100433

[pinkfrosting]

I've had success against burn with both dragon's claw and zuran orb when burn saw frequent play on MTGO.


Sneak/Show and OmniSneak. Let's use our SB space here. Ideas for best cards?

Ashen Rider is pretty solid, unless they can go off with cunning wish in response to the trigger, which the recent variants of omnisneak aren't really built to do, you're pretty ok sitting behind the rider. Sneak and Show sees so little play online that we MTGO grinders don't really run it often but I would definitely pack some in the Seattle meta, given that the previous 1K saw two in the top 8.

[ZTurgeon]

I've had success against burn with both dragon's claw and zuran orb when burn saw frequent play on MTGO.



Ashen Rider is pretty solid, unless they can go off with cunning wish in response to the trigger, which the recent variants of omnisneak aren't really built to do, you're pretty ok sitting behind the rider. Sneak and Show sees so little play online that we MTGO grinders don't really run it often but I would definitely pack some in the Seattle meta, given that the previous 1K saw two in the top 8.

If we are saying that we can't interact with the cunning wish instant kill, and looking for things just to put in off show and tell, then I would go with Overwhelming Splendor. That card is going to brick them most of the time and gets around them putting in an ashen rider. They also don't have the options of drawing 7-14 with Griselbrand before the trigger resolves to try and find a way to kill you.

[ZTurgeon]

2 5-0's so far with this ridiculous pile of garbage.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/780894#paper

This deck is no longer a random hate deck. We're big enough in the meta that decks are running basics now specifically to combat moon effects. Normally this isn't an issue, turning off 1 color or the ability to make two of a color is often enough backed by a threat. I've found this plan does not work though against czech pile and grixis control. They can too easily play every card in their hand with only one basic and a deathrite or two basics. Even cut off a color completely they can still answer many of the cards in our deck with just K-command. These decks dominate the meta right now making every league often 2 or 3 matches against a flavor 0f this deck. I tested virtually every modal card that can also destroy target land, out of those the best were Pillage and Violent Impact. Despite all the modes I too often found them not flexible enough.

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

Obviously you just kinda stuck whatever in the board to see what works, but I would consider Cave-In. It gives you access to an earlier and cheaper pyroclasm effect. Additionally, something like Call the Skybreaker may be useful as a way to beat any control deck or just have an actual threat out of the board, as expensive as it is.

[jandax]

Call the Skybreaker [emoji848]

I like this suggestion

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[LeoCop 90]

Man this Burning wish list is fantastic! i don't know if it's actually good but it certainly has potential and it will be fun to try new cards in it!

[hofzge]

Thankss for all the cool advances from the inital 4 Fiery Confluence to less and less creatures: I really like the direction of being a very dedicated prison deck.
Thanks also to the innovation of Burning Wish - this makes the deck so flexible.



Ashen Rider is pretty solid, unless they can go off with cunning wish in response to the trigger, which the recent variants of omnisneak aren't really built to do, you're pretty ok sitting behind the rider. Sneak and Show sees so little play online that we MTGO grinders don't really run it often but I would definitely pack some in the Seattle meta, given that the previous 1K saw two in the top 8.

How about Confusion in the Ranks? That can also be played of you mana and it is as hard a lock as Ashen Rider.

On a completely unrelated note: @pinkfrosting Why do you play Shattering Spree and not by Force? It can sometimes be harder to get red mana than colorless (maybe that is made worse by me playing a Gemstone Caverns instead of a mountaind and no Petal).

[jandax]

Shattering spree isnt exaxtly a nonbo with chalice because the copies won't get countered. Cheap, tutorable, creates card advantage

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[hofzge]

I was not suggesting it was a nombo but that it is very red mana heavy. Not being a nombo with Chalice is a low bar and for 2 mana both Spree and by Force kill 1 artifact, but in the case of by Force you can use your colorless mana for it.

[AmokPL]

2 5-0's so far with this ridiculous pile of garbage.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/780894#paper

This deck is no longer a random hate deck. We're big enough in the meta that decks are running basics now specifically to combat moon effects. Normally this isn't an issue, turning off 1 color or the ability to make two of a color is often enough backed by a threat. I've found this plan does not work though against czech pile and grixis control. They can too easily play every card in their hand with only one basic and a deathrite or two basics. Even cut off a color completely they can still answer many of the cards in our deck with just K-command. These decks dominate the meta right now making every league often 2 or 3 matches against a flavor 0f this deck. I tested virtually every modal card that can also destroy target land, out of those the best were Pillage and Violent Impact. Despite all the modes I too often found them not flexible enough.

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

great list. wouldn't Chandra, the Firebrand or Koth be better than Pyromaster in that list?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I was not suggesting it was a nombo but that it is very red mana heavy. Not being a nombo with Chalice is a low bar and for 2 mana both Spree and by Force kill 1 artifact, but in the case of by Force you can use your colorless mana for it.
Shattering Spree is counterspell resistant. Not a great argument considering the artifact-heavy decks are non-blue, but it is a point in favor of Spree over Force.

[pinkfrosting]

Shattering Spree is counterspell resistant. Not a great argument considering the artifact-heavy decks are non-blue, but it is a point in favor of Spree over Force.

My thinking was that it plays around both countermagic against stoneblade and teeg against maverick, although the latter doesn't see a ton of play. By Force is certainly worth considering though.

[pinkfrosting]

Obviously you just kinda stuck whatever in the board to see what works, but I would consider Cave-In. It gives you access to an earlier and cheaper pyroclasm effect. Additionally, something like Call the Skybreaker may be useful as a way to beat any control deck or just have an actual threat out of the board, as expensive as it is.

I added cave-in, it is pretty sweet. I swapped it for banefire which is fairly weak but I enjoyed throwing uncountable lethal damage at miracles opponents in the late game a couple times.

Overwhelming splendor can be good but show and tell is still running omni+wish, they just don't run the insta-win ants package anymore. So they can still free cantrip to a wish and bounce splendor.

Confusion in the Ranks is good but it suffers from some inconsistency, for instance if they drop a creature and we don't have one in hand or in play already confusion essentially whiffs, if I understand the effect correctly.

Rider always puts a trigger on the stack and while they can still cast cantrips and wishes in response if they drop omniscience they will likely still have to let the trigger resolve and won't be able to cast emrakul or griselbrand. They don't run trickbind or release the ants often anymore.

[SDBobPlissken]

2 5-0's so far with this ridiculous pile of garbage.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/780894#paper

This deck is no longer a random hate deck. We're big enough in the meta that decks are running basics now specifically to combat moon effects. Normally this isn't an issue, turning off 1 color or the ability to make two of a color is often enough backed by a threat. I've found this plan does not work though against czech pile and grixis control. They can too easily play every card in their hand with only one basic and a deathrite or two basics. Even cut off a color completely they can still answer many of the cards in our deck with just K-command. These decks dominate the meta right now making every league often 2 or 3 matches against a flavor 0f this deck. I tested virtually every modal card that can also destroy target land, out of those the best were Pillage and Violent Impact. Despite all the modes I too often found them not flexible enough.

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

I'm really liking the list. I'm a painter player that might jump ship to this now since the whole sdt ban. Any time I can burning wish for a rolling earthquake I am game.

[jandax]

So many painters in this thread! I wonder what everyone did with their recruiters, turned mine into ABU jank

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[hofzge]

Overwhelming splendor can be good but show and tell is still running omni+wish, they just don't run the insta-win ants package anymore. So they can still free cantrip to a wish and bounce splendor.

Confusion in the Ranks is good but it suffers from some inconsistency, for instance if they drop a creature and we don't have one in hand or in play already confusion essentially whiffs, if I understand the effect correctly.

Rider always puts a trigger on the stack and while they can still cast cantrips and wishes in response if they drop omniscience they will likely still have to let the trigger resolve and won't be able to cast emrakul or griselbrand. They don't run trickbind or release the ants often anymore.

You are right about the Confusion.

Let's Look at all outcomes and rank them along very subjective numbers:
S&T -> Omniscience: Confusion Best (4), Ashen Rider very good (3), Splendor mediocre (1)
S&T -> Sneak Attack: Splendor Best (4), Ashen Rider mediocre (1), Confusion mediocre (1)
S&T -> Emrakul: Ashen Rider Best (4), Splendor Best (4), Confusion good (2)
S&T -> Griselbrand: Splendor Best (4), Ashen Rider good (2), Confusion mediocre (1)

Splendor: 13
Ashen Rider: 10
Confusion: 8

From this list it might seem that Splendor is even better than Ashen Rider. It usually does not help against Omniscience, but makes winning with Emrakul impossible, so if the deck doesn't play Cunning Wish or even if it doesn't play Omniscience Overwhelming Splendor might be the best solution (along these totally subjective measures).

[Ace/Homebrew]

S&T -> Omniscience: Confusion Best (4), Ashen Rider very good (3), Splendor mediocre (1)
Even here, Confusion is only situationally better. If the opponent has the right instant(s) in hand, they can win in response to the Confusion trigger...

[hofzge]

Even here, Confusion is only situationally better. If the opponent has the right instant(s) in hand, they can win in response to the Confusion trigger...

True again, but half of the cantrips are Sorceries. But this just makes clear that Confusion is only good for the fact that it can be cast and that is a very weak point.

[jandax]

Is it a point at all if confusion isnt even meant to be cast? This assuming, like ashen rider, that it's meant to be cheated into play as well. Good conversation here!

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[NormalGuy]

Bridge and Trinisphere are pretty good against Omni. Confusion at least has a chance of working against Sneak Attack and Through the Breach. I would probably bring in Spine or Karakas over Ashen Rider or Splendor. Peacekeeper is another piece of tech that Imperial Painter used to run as extra virtual bridges.

[jandax]

In that vein, blazen archon would be better than peacekeeper.

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[NormalGuy]

Since we're going pretty deep here, if like to throw Sandwurm Convergence in for consideration.

[claulis]

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

I have been trying out this spice in the wish board:

1 Devastating Summons (Has not disappointed)
1 Landslide (With Moon Effects as a finisher, haven't got to cast it yet)
1 Sowing Salt (for Lands Matchup, haven't got to cast it yet but seems good against them)

[paradaxarada]

I do really believe that even on the Wish lists, we should probably run 4 Fiery Confluence MD

[Jelmerz77]

I have been trying out this spice in the wish board:

1 Devastating Summons (Has not disappointed)

In a deck that wants to resolve a Chalice of the Void at 1 and is comfortable sitting behind an Ensnaring Bridge, you want to be in a winning situation WITHOUT the cards mentioned before and then sack all (or at least the mayority of) your lands, survive the turn (with your elements), and then kill your opponent the next turn. Sounds not like the greatest plan...

[Jelmerz77]

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

Anarchy Seems like a good Wish target in the D&T match up

[SDBobPlissken]

Just got my first 5-0 ever in legacy league on Mtgo using pinkfrosting's exact list above. Played against storm three times. The deck definitely has a lot of gas with the wishboard. Played against a UW control and he pretty much had to counter everything I played or I would get too far ahead. Player Had to counter Chandra pyromaster, new Chandra, boiling seas, blood moon, chalice, trinisphere, and chalice all turn after turn. I feel like opponents are keeping in creature removal even though our only beaters are magus and spirit guide. Can we get away with 3 chrome mox? I hate drawing multiplesin the late game. Deck felt really good. Props to pinkfrosting for bringing this to the forefront.

In regards to Anarchy, I think I am going to try it in the board in place of the stone rain.

[jandax]

Seems like pinkfrosting has a winning list. I'm wondering if anyone has been playing spyglass with a burning wish package?

For reference my list:

4 moon
3 magus
4 cotv
3 3ball
3 spyglass
3 bridge
3 confluence
4 wish
4 chandra torch
2 chandra pyromancer
4 ssg
4 chrome mox
11 mountain
8 sol land

Wishboard: rolling earthquake, stone rain, pyroclasm, confluence, anarchy, roast, banefire, Boom bust

1 bridge
4 faerie macabre
2 kozileks return

[hofzge]

For reference my list:

3 spyglass


Wow! 3 main is a lot - but I now see there is so much to needle now that you also get to needle fetches: DRS, Jace, Vial, Mother of Runes, Sneak Attack, Charbelcher -> there is something in almost every deck except Storm.
I play 3 between main and side and I don't play the wish but something close to the 3 Rolling Earthquake list (about the Splendors: we have a lot of SnT players in my LGS):

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
3x Trinisphere

2x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4x Blood Moon

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
1x Gemstone Caverns
10x Mountain

4x Fiery Confluence
3x Rolling Earthquake

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide

Sideboard (15)
2x Abrade
1x Boil
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Kozilek's Return
1x Null Brooch
1x Null Rod
2x Overwhelming Splendor
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Trinisphere

[jandax]

Info is key for our sorcery speed deck. The spyglasses have been good in the late game as much as upping the turn one threat density. Albeit limited in physical testing, it's easy to trim while sideboarding and in practice so far its got more upside than down. It's a great new addition to our troll action

I just don't like the threat density of the deck right now. It's a completely different animal than Dragon stompy nowadays

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[frogger42]

Info is key for our sorcery speed deck. The spyglasses have been good in the late game as much as upping the turn one threat density. Albeit limited in physical testing, it's easy to trim while sideboarding and in practice so far its got more upside than down. It's a great new addition to our troll action

I just don't like the threat density of the deck right now. It's a completely different animal than Dragon stompy nowadays

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For the Bridge builds, is 4x Walking Ballista worth considering? It kills Thalia and Mom super easy, plus can potentially sit behind a Bridge and grow and ping. Not the greatest clock, but it’s certainly super flexible.

Burning Wish is brilliant. I had just mentioned it to a friend, and now someone has actually played it. Excellent call; it’s Red Stax’ version of Imperial Recruiter.

I’m not convinced regular Moon Stompy is dead. Not at all. I’ve been consistently placing with it at my LGS despite meta hate vs it, and I won a 20-man tourney with it. I do think Recruiter is fairly important to the deck, though. It’s basically your Fiery Confluence x4 - snags Manic Vandal and Sharpshooter out of the SB. Not needed 100%, but it’s a HUGE difference running the guy, esp with 5 equipment.

Moon Stompy also smashes DnT with a slight, probably 60%-40% favor.

[pinkfrosting]

I agree that traditional aggro lists aren't dead at all, it's 100% a meta call. I'd caution against going halfway though. The strength of the walker build is a stronger prison angle and essentially blanking creature removal. If you're going to go the aggro route in this meta you need to overload their removal, which means a ton of cheap threats and some number of threats that can't be killed by bolt or push. If I were to try a creature heavy list I'd probably move both the bridges and trinispheres to the side and really go threat heavy.

[hofzge]

you're going to go the aggro route in this meta you need to overload their removal, which means a ton of cheap threats and some number of threats that can't be killed by bolt or push. If I were to try a creature heavy list I'd probably move both the bridges and trinispheres to the side and really go threat heavy.

For the aggro build I would go as Dragon heavy as possible like this japanese list:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=24912&iddeck=195463

Territorial Hellkite is a kind of Fiery Confluence (4 mana for 6 burn :tongue:)

[jandax]

I agree, given the post top meta the Japanese have it right by going big over the top. Moggcatcher and friends just don't go wide enough to win a ground war, and the feelgoods from having Kiki and Settler out is a shadow of the feelbads as they normally die to any and all the removals. Dragon Stompy isn't dead, far from it. Thanks to recent printings the shell has morphed into a legit other archetype, Stax. Or Moon Walker. Semantics.



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[frogger42]

I agree that traditional aggro lists aren't dead at all, it's 100% a meta call. I'd caution against going halfway though. The strength of the walker build is a stronger prison angle and essentially blanking creature removal. If you're going to go the aggro route in this meta you need to overload their removal, which means a ton of cheap threats and some number of threats that can't be killed by bolt or push. If I were to try a creature heavy list I'd probably move both the bridges and trinispheres to the side and really go threat heavy.

I agree with this sentiment. Going halfway on both routes means that you do neither well. I think the best way to overload removal is with some tokens, ie Rabblemaster, and possibly Hanweir Garrison (which I don’t really play). Hazoret is amazing at dodging all non-White removal, too.

I don’t like that Japanese list either. Territorial Hellkite is garbo, straight up worse than Thunderbreak Regent (which I also don’t like). There’s a crazy high-end, and they run fewer lands than I do! (I run 29-30 mana sources to this guy’s 27.) I still get wrecked by two Wastes or Rishadan Ports every now and then; I’d be surprised if he ran into DnT ever. That Burning Wish list, tho...

This is my hot garbo list that’s served me well. I’m trying out a completely different deck, so it might be some time until I get back to it:


4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Zoetic Cavern
9 Mountain

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Manic Vandal
1 flex slot (Hanweir Garrison)

SB:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscouger
1 Scab-Clan Berserker

Some notes - 5 Seems to be the right number of equipment, as 6 I always get flooded with it in my opening hand. I don’t know why. Faeries in the SB can go down to 2-3. Settler has been sub-par. I tried Kiki-Jiki, but it’s uncastable. And Moggcatcher is a consideration, with Kiki, too.

[frogger42]

So any, any hints on silver bullets would be great. And I just remembered one of them which is definitely going in: Viashino Heretic .

[jandax]

If you're running recruiters to get silver bullets just browse through the painter thread, we've debated them all over the ages. Manic vandal vs heretic. Since you're running so much equipment that can protect a heretic I'd go for that, was always in the heretic camp. Fun card is fun.

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[frogger42]

If you're running recruiters to get silver bullets just browse through the painter thread, we've debated them all over the ages. Manic vandal vs heretic. Since you're running so much equipment that can protect a heretic I'd go for that, was always in the heretic camp. Fun card is fun.

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Thanks for the advice. I didn't see a whole lot there - Jaya Ballard and Spellskite solely for Painter. Phyrexian Metamorph always seems cool, but every time I play it it's underwhelming. And the ever-classic Wildfire Emissary. I'll keep puttering around, I'm sure there's some sweet toolbox or basher I want to run in as a 1x, something newer and more suited to Stompy. Might have to hit up Gatherer some more.

Something like Anger would be both hilarious and dreadfully awful. I'll have to research.

[claulis]

So any, any hints on silver bullets would be great. And I just remembered one of them which is definitely going in: Viashino Heretic .

Have you tried the goblin list? It is not too bad with the lock pieces. It does have some silver bullets. Revoker is always good.

Here is my take on the goblin stompy build that was mentioned earlier in the thread.


20 LANDS

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain

24 CREATURES

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stingscourger

16 OTHER SPELLS

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere


SIDEBOARD

4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Volcanic Fallout

[frogger42]

Have you tried the goblin list? It is not too bad with the lock pieces. It does have some silver bullets. Revoker is always good.

Here is my take on the goblin stompy build that was mentioned earlier in the thread.


20 LANDS

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain

24 CREATURES

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stingscourger

16 OTHER SPELLS

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere


SIDEBOARD

4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Volcanic Fallout

I like Moggcatcher, but the RR would make me have to rebuild the manabase (which is fine) but also reduce my threat count. I happen to own the Recruiters, and I feel they're superior to Moggcatcher because right away they net you card advantage. If your Moggcatcher dies while summoning sick, and it's pretty fragile without Chalice, then you didn't really get what you wanted, unlike Recruiter. SoFI is a big problem for this deck, I'd imagine, and another way to zap a sick Moggcather.

Recruiter oftentimes is another "must Force" threat, especially with equipment. It's even fine against white removal, doing the "Recruiter Combo."

But I like your list, again, I'd have to drop Zoetic Cavern to make the RR for Catcher. Zoetic has been incredible vs DnT for me, and is just randomly great. I think Cavern of Souls is awkward when you want to resolve a Rabblemaster or Blood Moon. I prefer just basic Mountain in the slot. Wasteland that, turn one!

I did find a piece of arcana that no one considered so far, mostly because no one runs equip: Squee, Goblin Nabob. I think that guy could potentially be a boss in my build, again, "dodging" non-white removal. I'mma drop Hanweir for that nutjob.

[fluuu]

I like Moggcatcher, but the RR would make me have to rebuild the manabase (which is fine) but also reduce my threat count. I happen to own the Recruiters, and I feel they're superior to Moggcatcher because right away they net you card advantage. If your Moggcatcher dies while summoning sick, and it's pretty fragile without Chalice, then you didn't really get what you wanted, unlike Recruiter. SoFI is a big problem for this deck, I'd imagine, and another way to zap a sick Moggcather.

Recruiter oftentimes is another "must Force" threat, especially with equipment. It's even fine against white removal, doing the "Recruiter Combo."

But I like your list, again, I'd have to drop Zoetic Cavern to make the RR for Catcher. Zoetic has been incredible vs DnT for me, and is just randomly great. I think Cavern of Souls is awkward when you want to resolve a Rabblemaster or Blood Moon. I prefer just basic Mountain in the slot. Wasteland that, turn one!

I did find a piece of arcana that no one considered so far, mostly because no one runs equip: Squee, Goblin Nabob. I think that guy could potentially be a boss in my build, again, "dodging" non-white removal. I'mma drop Hanweir for that nutjob.
Could u share Ur list? Thanks

[NormalGuy]

Thanks for the advice. I didn't see a whole lot there - Jaya Ballard and Spellskite solely for Painter. Phyrexian Metamorph always seems cool, but every time I play it it's underwhelming. And the ever-classic Wildfire Emissary. I'll keep puttering around, I'm sure there's some sweet toolbox or basher I want to run in as a 1x, something newer and more suited to Stompy. Might have to hit up Gatherer some more.

Something like Anger would be both hilarious and dreadfully awful. I'll have to research.

Off the top of my head from my painter days, some of the toolbox guys we looked at were Martyr of Ashes, Duergar Hedge-Mage, Manic Vandal, Gorilla Shaman, Defender of Chaos, Guma, Peacekeeper, Viashino Heretic, Spellskite, Goblin Welder, Phyrexian Revoker, Vexing Shusher.

A lot of these guys will be specific to painter to support the combo, or have synergy with painter's color changing, or be specific to a local meta, or be a non-bo with chalice. Personally I think recruiter is too slow in an aggressive stompy deck because of the mana constraints. If you get to the point where you have enough mana to cast recruiter and another creature, you should probably just cast a chandra or a thundermaw or moltensteel dragon or something.

[frogger42]

Off the top of my head from my painter days, some of the toolbox guys we looked at were Martyr of Ashes, Duergar Hedge-Mage, Manic Vandal, Gorilla Shaman, Defender of Chaos, Guma, Peacekeeper, Viashino Heretic, Spellskite, Goblin Welder, Phyrexian Revoker, Vexing Shusher.

A lot of these guys will be specific to painter to support the combo, or have synergy with painter's color changing, or be specific to a local meta, or be a non-bo with chalice. Personally I think recruiter is too slow in an aggressive stompy deck because of the mana constraints. If you get to the point where you have enough mana to cast recruiter and another creature, you should probably just cast a chandra or a thundermaw or moltensteel dragon or something.

Thanks NormalGuy. There are a couple here I hadn't seen on the thread, but stuff like Revoker and Shusher I've tried and wasn't super stoked about them. For me Recruiter takes the spot of Fiery Confluence, which you need in the build because you get wrecked by Sword of Fire and Ice. Having that shatter is super important, and Recruiter suits up better than Confluence (which is still a great card). It's a bit slower, but half the time I get more Rabblemasters, and it's flexible for the mana input - Faerie Macabre, Sharpshooter, even just grab itself (pwn).

I'll be honest, though - the cash you put into Recruiter isn't worth it. Just jam more Hanweirs and lose to a SoFI, I mean, ffs Recruiter is overpriced.


The list is right here fluuu:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=1026513&viewfull=1#post1026513

[NormalGuy]

Thanks NormalGuy. There are a couple here I hadn't seen on the thread, but stuff like Revoker and Shusher I've tried and wasn't super stoked about them. For me Recruiter takes the spot of Fiery Confluence, which you need in the build because you get wrecked by Sword of Fire and Ice. Having that shatter is super important, and Recruiter suits up better than Confluence (which is still a great card). It's a bit slower, but half the time I get more Rabblemasters, and it's flexible for the mana input - Faerie Macabre, Sharpshooter, even just grab itself (pwn).

I'll be honest, though - the cash you put into Recruiter isn't worth it. Just jam more Hanweirs and lose to a SoFI, I mean, ffs Recruiter is overpriced.


The list is right here fluuu:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=1026513&viewfull=1#post1026513

I've found Hangarback Walker to be pretty good against SoFI because of the ability to chump block multiple turns and swing in the air. Also bridges are good, and I side in abrade. Rabblemaster is bad against decks with SoFI because they will get jitte instead and your tokens will be forced to attack into it. I've replaced rabblemaster with garrison in my deck for that reason and it's resilience to sweepers.

[frogger42]

I've found Hangarback Walker to be pretty good against SoFI because of the ability to chump block multiple turns and swing in the air. Also bridges are good, and I side in abrade. Rabblemaster is bad against decks with SoFI because they will get jitte instead and your tokens will be forced to attack into it. I've replaced rabblemaster with garrison in my deck for that reason and it's resilience to sweepers.

Hangarback is actually a really good call there. I've been using Zoetic Cavern to delay a SoFI hit every now and then, which is super mana-intensive. But both blank Mother of Runes as well. I like that idea a lot.

[fluuu]

Thanks NormalGuy. There are a couple here I hadn't seen on the thread, but stuff like Revoker and Shusher I've tried and wasn't super stoked about them. For me Recruiter takes the spot of Fiery Confluence, which you need in the build because you get wrecked by Sword of Fire and Ice. Having that shatter is super important, and Recruiter suits up better than Confluence (which is still a great card). It's a bit slower, but half the time I get more Rabblemasters, and it's flexible for the mana input - Faerie Macabre, Sharpshooter, even just grab itself (pwn).

I'll be honest, though - the cash you put into Recruiter isn't worth it. Just jam more Hanweirs and lose to a SoFI, I mean, ffs Recruiter is overpriced.


The list is right here fluuu:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=1026513&viewfull=1#post1026513

Thanks, interesting one, i am trying right now to make a goblin stompie deck.

[Karhumies]

Had played 0 games of Legacy for the past 4 months. My friends convinced me last night to participate in Finnish Legacy Championships today. So I hurriedly made a deck last night and went.

"Aggro Stompy"
9th / 89 in points
12th / 89 with tiebreaker
5-2, losses to Burn and Pox. The meta was full of greedy 4 color decks & 3 color decks without red, so I got awful luck in the pairings lottery (4 monocolor decks, 3 not monocolor decks).

NOTE: "Prison Stompy" went 5-0, ID, ID into top8 (ongoing as I write). "Goblin stompy" was on 53rd place.

Main Deck (60)
Creature (18)
2x Glorybringer - terribly bad today. Should have been a Pia and Kiran Nalaar vs Pox.
4x Goblin Rabblemaster - MVP today.
1x Hazoret the Fervent - OK today.
1x Magus of the Moon - OK today. Never wanted more than 1 and frequently SB'd him out.
1x Quicksmith Rebel - good today.
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Sin Prodder - great today. could have used a 3rd copy. Maybe even 4th.
1x Stormbreath Dragon - good today. won the match vs DnT.
1x Territorial Hellkite - OK today.
1x Thunderbreak Regent - Bad today.

Planeswalker (4)
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance - MVP today.

Land (19)
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Cavern of Souls - never useful today. Should have been a basic Mountain to prevent PoP damage.
2x City of Traitors - 2 seemed like a great number today but could maybe use a 3rd.
1x Karakas - never useful today. Should have been a basic Mountain to prevent PoP damage.
11x Mountain

Artifact (10)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
1x Trinisphere - very useful today as 1of. Only vs Burn could have used more MD
1x Umezawa's Jitte - very useful today

Sorcery (5)
4x Fiery Confluence
1x Rolling Earthquake - useless today

Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon

Sideboard (15)
2x Abrade - Smash to Smithereens would have been better today
1x Boil - never casted, brought in vs 3 decks
3x Ensnaring Bridge - never casted, brought in vs 2 decks
3x Faerie Macabre - never used, brought in vs storm and Pox
1x Kozilek's Return - casted this vs DnT for great effect
1x Scab-Clan Berserker - never used
1x Sorcerous Spyglass - never useful although I brought it in vs Pox
2x Trinisphere - never casted, brought in vs storm
1x Volcanic Fallout - won g2 vs 4c control

Matches:
R1 2-1 vs DnT, 40min
Stormbreath Dragon + Jitte won the match vs MD SoFI. Opponent made a couple of small play mistakes.

R2 2-0 vs 4c storm, 15min
Easy beats. Opponent made 6 goblins out of desperation in g2 but I Fiery Confluenced them away.

R3 2-1 vs Burn, 45min
Horrible MU. MVP Jitte. Opponent had 10 year break from MtG previously & had a modern-ish burn list. He also had bad topdeck luck in g3.

R4 1-2 vs Monoblack smallpox control, 35 minutes.
Horrible MU. Won g2 on the play with t1 Rabblemaster who ttacked every turn. Otherwise, the opponent's mana denial and discard effects (Hymn + Liliana especially) kept me out from the game.

R5 0-2 vs Burn, 10 minutes.
Horrible MU. Experienced burn player with a decent list. He knew I was on stompy, I didn't know he was burn. G1 he won through Chalice @ 1 + Chalice @ 2 with Sulfuric Vortex into double Rift Bolt into Pyroblast.

R6 2-0 vs Ubgr midrange/control, 30 minutes.
Overloaded his counters and removal by having too many "targets". He got rid of my important stuff by Simian Spirit Guide beats and Goblin token beats continued until he died.

R7 2-0 vs storm, 15 minutes.
G1 won with Magus beats. My opponent failed to filter any business. I sideboarded incorrectly bringing Bridges in, thinking he was Sneaky Show based on Volcanic Island, basic Island, U fetch, Brainstorm, Lotus Petal I saw in g1. But I landed a Trinisphere in g2 on won anyhow. 3 mana LEDs got Fiery Confluenced away.

[Pikku]

Hi all, just registered here to post my report for the Finnish legacy championships with the deck.
I haven’t played the deck much and last time I picked it up was a year ago in the previous legacy champs as I don’t own the deck myself so I had to borrow quite few cards for it. Last year the goblin version was the popular version of this deck, but I played a version with some Chandras, Sin Prodders and Rabblemasters but that tournament didn’t go as planned...

Anyhow back to last weekend and this is what I ended up playing with.

The deck:

Artifact (16)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Trinisphere
1x Lotus Petal

Sorcery (6)
4x Fiery Confluence
2x Incendiary Command

Creature (8)
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide

Planeswalker (7)
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Chandra, the Firebrand
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Land (19)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain

Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon

Sideboard (15)
2x Chaos Warp
3x Kozilek's Return
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Null Rod
3x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Trinisphere

On Friday I participated in the Legacy FNM held in the same store where the Saturday’s main tournament would be.
FNM R1: Agro Loam
Playing against friend who I know is on Loam and I have a good feeling about the match up. Game 1 I win quite fast, Games 2 and 3 he finds all the answers. Well this wasn’t how I planned starting this journey.
0-1

FNM R2: Solidarity
Again I know the player is most likely playing solidarity. I haven’t played this match up before, but I had a good feeling about it. Well that good feeling went away quite fasts G1 and G2 ended in end of turn wish for Hurkyls and proceed to kill me on my next turn. I guess the match up wasn’t that great since Solidarity has quite a lot of time to set up his things, well lessons learned.
0-2

FNM R3: Agro Loam
Again I had seen that the player is on Agro Loam and I’m again feeling quite confident. Game one I win with Moon and things. Game 2 I mull to 5 and lose, Game 3 he finds all the answers. Well 0-2 against Agro Loams, not feeling too good about my deck choice anymore.
0-3

FNM R4: Bye
“yay”
1-3

Ok so the rehearsal before the premiere was a train wreck. I had doubts and spare decks to switch on to but I decided to keep to my choice and with my friend who was on Goblin Stompy we tweaked the sideboard a little for the main event.

FINNISH LEGACY CHAMPIONSHIP!

R1: Agro Loam
Oh agro loam again. Well yesterday’s performance had left me doubtful of this matchup. Game 1 Blood Moon wins the game. I side out chalices, commands and trinispheres and bring in leylines, kozilek’s returns and chaos warps . Game 2 Blood moon, Bridge and Chandra win the game. I ulted Chandra, Pyromaster just to wiff, oh well atleast I removed 10 blanks from the top. Yay yesterday’s bad karma is gone and now I’m feeling bit more confident.
1-0

R2: Eldrazi Stompy
Another familiar face, though I’m not sure what he is playing. T1 Blood Moon with chrome mox pitching Incendiary Command in game one is quite good, but he resolves walking ballista and I find only more lock pieces. I get Chandra Pyromaster and he spends 5 counters from Ballista to kill it. Great next turn I find confluence to kill the ballista. I cast Incendiary command to kill a land and dome him for 4. He then plays Chalice for 4 and follows it with Chalice for 3. I look to my grave and exile where both of my Commands are, do a deck count I got 30 cards he has 31, well should’ve made us discard and draw with that first Command.
On to Game 2. I sideboard in the nullrods, chaos warps and spyglasses. I can’t find Blood Moon but Bridge keeps me alive. The game goes to a race between End Bringers and Chandra, I manage to find 2 Fiery Confluences and end the game.
Game 3 I get T1 Magus of the Moon and proceed to beat down. This is going better than expected
2-0

R3: Solidarity
This is the same Solidarity from yesterday and I’m not feeling too good. We get deck checked but both decks are fine. He plays Island go, I play T1 chalice for 1 it resolves. He draws curses and passes. Wow he kept 1 lander without any can trips or forces. I play chalice for 2 and he scoops it up. I side out Blood Moons and Ensnaring bridges, bring in leylines, chaos warps and a sorcerous spyglass (maybe keeping one moon would be better). Game 2 I play fast trinisphere followed with Chandra which he remands several times, he seems to flood out a little. I resolve the Chandra finally +1 for mana and play sorcerous spyglass naming misty rainforest. I ulted Chandra next turn I plus Chandra for card and find Chalice, I play it for 2 he responds with high tide and lets it resolve, end of turn he plays wish but looks at the chalice and realizes it was on 2 and not for 1, takes peek with the wish, goes to his turn plays brainstorm curses a little and passes the turn taps my lands with turnabout I take mana from Chandra and play chrome mox from and and the emblem trigger kills him. He tells me after the game that he found 3 misty rainforests and because of the spyglass couldn’t shuffle away the cards with brainstorm. Anyhow this is now going way better than expected.
3-0

R4: 4Color Delver
Again familiar face that I know is most likely on delver, he doesn’t know what I’m on and keeps guessing on some graveyard deck. T1 Chalice for 1, followed up with trinisphere and moon goes to game 2. I side in trinispheres and spyglasses taking out some win cons. Game 2 I mull to 5 and he has the answers. To game 3, Chalice for 1 resolves again and followed with blood moon seals the deal. Again Chandra, Pyromaster ult found no instant or sorcery. Well that round went as planned and Im feeling even more confident at this point.
4-0

R5: Elves
Game 1 Chalice followed with all the lock pieces end up winning the game side in trinisphere and the sweepers, cutting down on the walkers and commands. Game 2 I mull to 5 with 2 mountain, bridge, confluence, Chandra hand. Decent hand if I find sol land, well I don’t find it and he Hoofs me away. Game 3 I get chalice for 1 and trinisphere, but can’t find a moon. I land a Chandra and he plays couple of elves with cavern mana which I both kill with K Returns to protect Chandra, I find magus and bridge, take fast emblem and manage to win the game with the emblem even though he got to resolve a Ruric Thar. Ok top 8 is now looking strong.
5-0

R6: Eldrazi Stompy
I get paired down but offer ID. Opponent doesn’t take it, he mulls to 5 and plays T1 chalice for 1, I play T1 blood moon and proceed to win the game. Opponent asks if ID is still on the table, I accept.
5-0-1

R6: Pox
ID
5-0-2

So I’m 4th on breakers since I got paired down twice.

Top8: Eldrazi Stopmpy
I know he is on Eldrazi Stompy and T1 Blood Moon wins the game, I side in the same as previous eldrazi game. Game 2 I keep hand with T1 blood moon and Null rod. He plays Tomb into Grim monolith. I go for null rod, he plays eldrazi temple and TKS, I show him 2 moons and 2 chandras and spirit guide, he takes the guide. I proceed to play moon and top deck lands for Chandra and that’s the match.

Top4: 4 Color Deathblade
Game 1 he has decays fows and dazes for everything and kills me with TNN and DRS’s. I side in same as in grixis delver match, this might be wrong in the end. Game 2 I get fast chalice and trini and he goes for TNN, I get magus of the moon and Chandra, he attacks Chandra down to 2 and chandras next +1 finds ensnaring bridge for the win. Game 3 I keep hand with 3 ancient tombs chrome mox, blood moon and chalice and trinisphere. T1 chalice and T2 Trinisphere are ok, he then decays my chalice and toughtseizes away my moon. I play sorcerous spyglass to see daze fow stop and land and I name DRS to the spy glass. Next turn I play ensnaring bridge that gets the fow. I have managed to draw chalice and magus of the moon, I play chalice for 1 to kill the stop and then play the magus, but he has drawn decay. I have taken a lot of damage from my lands and he then top decks batterskull, I need a bridge in to moon to stay alive in the game. I find the moon but have to chump. Then Jace seals the game.

I ended up 4th and 150€ in store credit.

Oh well I had a great run and was very lucky with my pairings. If not counting the Solidarity list, my other opponents that I played against had a total of 4 basic lands in their decks. Delver, Deathblade and the first eldrazi opponent had no basics. So I think my deck choice was quite good for the meta. In the end the tournament was won by Grixis Delver.
On the some unconventional card choices:
Chandra, the Firebrand. She was not that bad copying Fiery Confluence can be great to kill Goyfs and Gurmag anglers or just dome to opponent for 12, I think she is acceptable as a one-off even though her ”card advantage” is bit different from the other 2 chandras.
Incendiary Command. Well I did not want to play the Rolling EQ, first of all I couldn’t get my hands on them, but I didn’t like that it deals damage to me and can’t be copied with Pyromaster ult. I was also considering Beacon of Destruction in this slot, but decided that Incendiary command is more flexible. If I had chosen different modes in the first eldrazi game that would’ve won me the game, otherwise when I cast it, it really didn’t matter what spell it was. I’m not 100% convinced on this card but it was easy to side out in lot of matchups. If it would say destroy target land instead of non basic, then I would be all over this card, but now I'm still looking what to play in this slot.

Well I liked the deck that much that I started investing in the cards and will build this for myself. :smile:

[ZTurgeon]

R4 1-2 vs Monoblack smallpox control, 35 minutes.
Horrible MU. Won g2 on the play with t1 Rabblemaster who ttacked every turn. Otherwise, the opponent's mana denial and discard effects (Hymn + Liliana especially) kept me out from the game.


That matchup is actually pretty good. The key is to know that they have a real hard time dealing with Chandra or Rabblemaster. If you just stick a turn 1 rabblemaster, you are likely to win. Same if you stick a turn 1-2 Chandra.

[jandax]

You guys! We're a known quantity! [emoji1]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/efc7d362dc902566ddfd57a485d17903.jpg

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[NormalGuy]

Eternal Weekend Tournament report:

//Main
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 City of Traitors
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Fiery Confluence
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Hanweir Garrison
2 Lotus Petal
4 Magus of the Moon
12 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Sorcerous Spyglass

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Abrade
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
SB: 3 Kozilek's Return
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 Trinisphere


Match 1 - Grixis or 4-color?
- Win/Loss/Loss
All I remember about this match is a lot of Hymn to Tourach and Snapcaster+Hymn. In one of the games I played 2 mountains with a Chandra in hand, and he hymned the city out of my hand and I was stuck on mana for a bunch of turns.
(0-1)

Match 2 - ??? Something with DRS
- Win/Loss/Win
I didn't write down which deck this was, but my notes say that I named DRS with spyglass in game 2. From the life tallys it looks like I closed out game 1 with Hanweir Garrison and Game 2 with Rabblemaster without taking any damage in either of those games.
(1-1)

Match 3 - Turbo Depths vs Eli Kessis
- Win/Loss/Win
I think game 1 was a turn 1 blood moon but I can't tell how I closed out the game. Game 2 I think I played revoker on hexmage and he made a quick Marit lage with stage. Game 3 was pretty close, Garrison was the allstar here. I played a chalice on 1, then a garrison. He wished for a rec-sage to blow up chalice, then I played bridge. He played engineered explosives on 0 to blow up the garrison tokens, and maybe another rec-sage to destroy bridge, but I had just enough damage to kill him with garrison before Marrit Lage could attack.
(2-1)

Match 4 - Omnitell w/ Enter the Infinite, Sneak attack, Burning Wish
- Win/Loss/Loss
Game one it looks like I beat him down with magus and rabblemaster. He played out a sneak attack without anything to sneak in. Game 2 I'm beating him down, he sneaks in Griselbrand as a chump blocker to gain some life, I play an ensnaring bridge, then a few turns later he wishes for Void Snare, bounces bridge, and sneaks in emerkul for the win with 5 life left. Game 3 is kind of interesting. I play a turn 1 chalice on 1, he plays turn 1 island, petal, petal, show and tell. I show ensnaring bridge, he shows omniscence, plays enter the infinite, plays an emerkul and of bunch of junk. He tries to Void Snare my bridge, chalice counters it, then he's durdling around trying to figure out if he has any way to win. Eventually he realizes he can play Jace, then play a bunch of emerkul's over and over to take a bunch of extra turns and ultimate jace on me for the win.
(2-2)

Match 5 - UBR Reanimator
- Win/Win
I don't have many notes here, but it looks like both wins were garrison beatdowns. Probably trinisphere/chalice locks.
(3-2)

Match 6 - Burn
- Loss/Win/Win
Game 1 he burns me out very quickly, doing 10 damage on the last turn with some burn spell and double firebolt. Games 2 and 3 were turn 1 trinispheres and he never gets the mana to cast any spells.
(4-2)

Match 7 - Semi-mirror match
- Loss/Loss
This guy was playing with a chandra torch/koth/rolling earthquake build. Both of these games are pretty grindy. I'm playing out dudes to beat him down, and he's rolling earthquake'ing away my board. Were killing each others chandras with firey confluence. Game 1 he kills me with 1 life left. Game 2 I end up ult'ing Jaya Ballard to wipe out his simian's and kill his chandra leaving us both with empty boards. Then we play draw-go for a bunch of turns and he draws the first kill spell.
(4-3)

Match 8 - Eldrazi Stompy
- Win/Win
Fast blood moons win both of these games. Game 1 was pretty close, he gets a 5/5 Endless one equipped with a Jitte, but doesn't respect hangarback enough to kill it immediately, allowing me to pump it up and leave me with enough blockers to close out the game with 2 firey confluence. Game 2 I roll right over him with a T1 garrison, T2 blood moon.
(5-3)

Match 9 - UR Delver
- Win/Win
Game 1 I'm racing with garrison against 2 swiftspears, he's blocking the tokens and taking 2 damage every turn. I think I get down a second garrison and win the race. Game 2 he's beating me with swiftspears for a bit, I get down 2 garrison's then I Kozilek's return which gets countered, then Kozilek's return again to wipe his board and he scoops it up.
(6-3)

Match 10 - UB Reanimator
- Loss/Win/Win
Game 1 he's on the play, plays a swamp, I play a chalice on 1 and he entomb's griselbrand in response, then exhumes T2 and beats me down. Game 2 I spyglass naming griselbrand, and get down a garrison, he entomb's and exhumes tidespout tyrant but can't bounce things fast enough to race garrison/chandra/rabblemaster. Game 3 he reveals Chancellor of the Annex, plays a land and passes, I play T1 tomb, chalice on 1 and pitch SSG to pay for chancellor, then rabblemaster makes quick work of him.
(7-3)

Match 11 - UR Delver
- Loss/Win/Win
Game 1 he beats me down pretty quick with swiftspears and delver. I side out 8 moons and 2 spyglass for 3 K-Return, 2 Abrade, 3 trinisphere, and 2 jaya and sweep and abrade my way to 2 wins.
(8-3)

Final record is 8-3-0 which is enough to make 63rd place and win $125 credit. From the mirror matchup, rolling earthquake looks extremely strong, I'm gonna have to pick up a set of those to try out. I also like trinisphere in the sideboard more then maindeck. Firey confluence is amazing, I'll definitely be sticking with 4 maindeck from now on. I'm still not too sure about spyglass, I like being able to get information game 1, and it's usually able to name something relevant, so I'll probably stick with 2 for now, but it might just be better as something else.

I also got told by a judge that I needed to get checklist cards for garrison because the back was just barely visible through my petrol colored dragon shields, luckily I was able to find a set at one of the vendors, otherwise I would of had to re-sleeve into black sleeves or something.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Congrats! Way to represent. :wink:
If you want to keep your sleeves and not use checklist cards, Dragon Shield makes 'smoke' shields. They have a tinted back specifically to help hide DFC in tournament play.

[TLK]

Has anyone tried Price of Glory or Citadel of Pain in the board against blue-based decks? Seems awesome in a deck that operates at sorcery speed.

[ZTurgeon]

Has anyone tried Price of Glory or Citadel of Pain in the board against blue-based decks? Seems awesome in a deck that operates at sorcery speed.

We don't have infinite space, and for the most part beat up on blue decks.

[SDBobPlissken]

I'm playing the burning wish package version. Having a lot of trouble winning against a resolved jace the mind sculptor. Any pointers or suggestions? I usually bring in the 4th fiery confluence in place of a magus since the jace decks typically either play stp or fatal push.

[jandax]

Spyglass is your friend

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[cavalrywolfpack]

I know the discussion is from a fee weeks back, but I've been playing Moggcatcher for ~6 months or so. Certainly not long enough to master it, but enough to explain some of the key differences between it and traditional Dragon Stompy, which I have less experience with.

For starters, Moggcatcher has a much stronger late game. The presence of a tutor package gives the deck plenty of answers, so if something manages to come down through our prison pieces we can still deal with it. Moggcatcher can also grind out wins thanks to Kiki-Jiki. Copying cards like Murderous Redcap, Goblin Settler, and Siege-Gang Commander means we can out-value decks that don't care about whatever prison cards that are currently on the board. Even without copying them they can still grind out wins on their own. Additionally, the tutor package gives us extra sideboard hosers, like Goblin Sharpshooter.

Unfortunately, the curve is also higher. It's much harder to draw out of mana screw because our cards tend to cost more mana. We also end up running Cavern of Souls, which can be awkward because we play humans (Magus and Moggcatcher) and Chandra. While the utility of being able to name the creature type we need immediately, it puts us at the mercy of our draws to make it useable. It also tends to have more complex lines of play than traditional Dragon Stompy because of the ability to tutor whatever we need (not that Dragon Stompy is a particularly trivial strategy to play in the first place). It's easy to punt games away without knowing it until it's too late.

Personally, I prefer Moggcatcher because of its late game engine and capacity to to fight through the opponent's cards they manage to cast. Plus, Goblin Settler + Kiki-Jiki is a hilarious lock for those opponents who insist on attempting to play Magic this round.

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[NormalGuy]

I'm playing the burning wish package version. Having a lot of trouble winning against a resolved jace the mind sculptor. Any pointers or suggestions? I usually bring in the 4th fiery confluence in place of a magus since the jace decks typically either play stp or fatal push.

Chandra, rolling earthquake, firey confluence. Redirect player damage to Jace.

[frogger42]

I'm playing the burning wish package version. Having a lot of trouble winning against a resolved jace the mind sculptor. Any pointers or suggestions? I usually bring in the 4th fiery confluence in place of a magus since the jace decks typically either play stp or fatal push.

What's your wish board look like? I think Boiling Seas is the best you can do; I checked Gatherer, and you can't destroy any permanents in red (Dreadbore is as close as you get). At 7 mana, you get Call the Skybreaker as your only real option to fight a resolved JtMS.

If Jace is pretty prevalent in your meta, the more Stompy version should beat him up. PW'ers are always a pain to deal with without creatures. Something like Goblin Rabblemaster is a Brick House there.

@CavalryWolfPack - I think Moggcatcher isn't too bad. I think your assessment of the deck is fairly accurate; and I think Mountain is generally better than Cavern, in most builds of Mono-R, for the reasons you noted.
I never understood why the deck wanted to run Redcap when you have Siege Gang. I also tried running a tutorable 1x Settler, and never found it gamebreaking, or sometimes not even useful. I think the biggest thing Moggcatcher has is fetching Kiki-Jiki, which my deck can't do, because RRR is essentially uncastable. I run Sharpshooter and Stingscourger in the SB; but I think the better silver bullets you can find are outside of the Goblin creature type right now.

The reason I'm not running 4x Moggcatcher is the RR in the casting cost. My deck only aims to get a single Red source, and a tonna colorless. I've tried Catcher and found it tough to cast in my manabase; that said, I don't think adding Mountains will do anything other than dilute my threat density (sidenote - which is how you beat Jace).

If you haven't tried it, it might be worth trying a casting cost R2 version of Stompy, as it just runs smoother in casting spells. Moggcatcher is powerful, but makes you ramp up your manabase more and cut down on threats. My version folds to Engineered Explosives pretty aggressively, but it's really consistent otherwise!

[cavalrywolfpack]

Redcap can kill Delver without an additional mana cost, which is very useful in today's meta. Redcap is also a resilient win condition with Kiki-Jiki, on top of being able to kill 4 toughness creatures in combat. Finally, you can win with Kiki-Jiki + Redcap from behind an Ensnaring Bridge and also hold mana up. Cutting Kiki hurts your build of the deck a lot. It wins games in so many ways and is almost impossible to deal with thanks to our prison pieces. He's far too powerful to not play, and I would never register a list without him. Additionally, the Settler lock seems more clunky than it really is. Blowing up a lone basic land is fine, but repeating it is beyond obnoxious. At Settler's worst, it takes out a utility land. At its best, it stops the opponent from doing anything for the rest of the game. Cavern, despite being clunky, let's our most important tools dodge counter spells. I prefer to think of Cavern as a ritual: it is a one-time power surge that puts whatever we need into play.

Put another way, your list removed most of why you want the tutors, and then tried to keep the Moggcatchers in. That's like removing all the tools from a Swiss army knife and then keeping then carrying it with you for when you need a knife: it's no longer beneficial to keep it in use.

[NormalGuy]

Cavern, despite being clunky, let's our most important tools dodge counter spells. I prefer to think of Cavern as a ritual: it is a one-time power surge that puts whatever we need into play.

Maybe Vexing Shusher could work in place of Cavern?

[cavalrywolfpack]

Maybe Vexing Shusher could work in place of Cavern?Cavern outclasses Shusher because it's a land, and it costs extra mana to make the spell uncounterable with Shusher, effectively taxing us every turn. I did the math with a hypergeometric calculator, there's 76% chance we have a Moon in the first 8 cards, assuming you play 4 Moon 4 Magus. Those odds are pretty good, and if we take it down to 7 (in theory, we know one is Cavern, so we drop the sample size to account for that), that's a 71% chance. Cavern will end up being a Mountain significantly more often than not. Yes, it can be clunky, but I think buffing out the rough edges makes the deck work.

Now, there may be a case for Vexing Shusher in the sideboard for when we really want a Moon to stick, but keep in mind that's happening on turn 2 at the earliest (which is sometimes too late for Moon) and requires having the Shusher. Thus, we would want 4 copies (at the very least 3), but that's a lot of sideboarding. I find it difficult to sideboard out more than 3-4 cards before I start cutting into the core. How did Moggcatcher perform for you? You mentioned it wasn't amazing, but I'm curious none the less.

EDIT 2: Can you imagine tutoring a Shusher out in response to a counter spell? I can't stop myself from laughing just thinking about it!

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[pinkfrosting]

I'm playing the burning wish package version. Having a lot of trouble winning against a resolved jace the mind sculptor. Any pointers or suggestions? I usually bring in the 4th fiery confluence in place of a magus since the jace decks typically either play stp or fatal push.

In that deck if they let you resolve a wish banefire is pretty great.

However I've had trouble against control with every variation of this deck lately, wish or traditional. It feels like if I don't resolve a walker in the first 3 turns it's a huge uphill battle. As long as they are a decent player they will be very selective about what they counter, letting anything they have cards to deal with resolve and anything they can't they hold up a counter for. They know we run a high walker count so even behind trinisphere they will just play draw-go and hold up 3 mana to stop us from resolving a chandra. In addition new-miracles and stoneblade variants almost totally don't care about moon, and trinisphere's value quickly falls after the first few turns.

And as far as JTMS is concerned, if they can resolve one with counterspell backup for our turn and we haven't established a board, the game is essentially over.

I've toyed with several options. The spiciest is ricochet trap, basically a counterspell for R that can be cast through chalice. I've also paid 3R to redirect decays and hymns, and I've stolen the draw from ancestral. Fun card but can be very underwhelming.

I think honestly our best bet may be borrowing tech from red sneak and playing some number of defense grid in the board. Even with walkers and cloisters we can't compete with the draw and selection that blue offers, not to mention recursion with snapcaster. Our best bet is to protect the heavy hitters and resolve them early. The matches I win against this deck almost always involve trinisphere turn 2 into chandra turn 3, or just fast mana into a quick chandra force-check before they have a chance to cantrip for countermagic. Any game that goes past turn 5-6 without me successfully resolving anything feels totally unwinnable.

[frogger42]

Cavern outclasses Shusher because it's a land, and it costs extra mana to make the spell uncounterable with Shusher, effectively taxing us every turn. I did the math with a hypergeometric calculator, there's 76% chance we have a Moon in the first 8 cards, assuming you play 4 Moon 4 Magus. Those odds are pretty good, and if we take it down to 7 (in theory, we know one is Cavern, so we drop the sample size to account for that), that's a 71% chance. Cavern will end up being a Mountain significantly more often than not. Yes, it can be clunky, but I think buffing out the rough edges makes the deck work.

Now, there may be a case for Vexing Shusher in the sideboard for when we really want a Moon to stick, but keep in mind that's happening on turn 2 at the earliest (which is sometimes too late for Moon) and requires having the Shusher. Thus, we would want 4 copies (at the very least 3), but that's a lot of sideboarding. I find it difficult to sideboard out more than 3-4 cards before I start cutting into the core. How did Moggcatcher perform for you? You mentioned it wasn't amazing, but I'm curious none the less.

EDIT 2: Can you imagine tutoring a Shusher out in response to a counter spell? I can't stop myself from laughing just thinking about it!

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On an opening hand of 7 cards, I got a 34.5% chance of not having a moon in hand, which seems like a 65.5% chance of having one (about 2/3). I’m counting going on the play, since there’s a significant difference with Moon on the play vs. Moon on the draw (fetchlands).

I tried Moggcatcher - a playset over the Imperial Recruiters. In short, they did not perform. I couldn’t cast them most of the time, due to the RR, and when I had one in my opening hand, I generally lost (vs 4C Control). I still really like it, but I’m going to try 1x in the SB so I can snag it with Recruiter.

I still suspect Siege Gang is enough to deal with x/2 creatures, over a whole slot for 4 Mana Shock. If you find value in it, that’s fine, I still like my handful of SoFI/Jitte better.

Catcher is a super grinder, and the best part is def fetching out Kiki. I’m going to plan on bringing him in vs more grindy MUs (Miracles, I guess).

Also, I do strongly feel Recruiter is far better than Catcher. I think your analysis of the two is off - Catcher is summoning sick, and Recruiter snags something right away. This is hugely significant vs Sword of Fire and Ice, which even with Recruiter I tend to fetch out the Manic Vandal / Artifact Bullet right away. Every now and then I get a Magus, but usually I fetch out Rabbles with Recruiter, when SoFI isn’t a problem (so yeah, usually a Goblin).

Add to that Recruiter is only R in color requirements. I don’t want to drop 2-3 money spells to find more mountains for Moggcatcher. But don’t spend the $600 for them, god no. Make a friend who happens to have them :p

[jandax]

At 4-0 with chandrs stompy, Dutch legacy open. Theyre streaming at the time of this ppst on twitch

Edit: just lost a camera match to MuD but beat infect again to go 5 1 into the last round.

Edit edit:Got a top 8 and we split. Top 8 was 2 infect, 2 storm (JamieW89, 1 MUD, 2 Moon Walker (jelmerz77 and I) and Lands. Sweet ass meta. Went 5-1-1 drawing the last round as 4th seed with Jamie89 (on Storm). Beat Br Reanimator, Esper mentor, Eldrazi, infect twice, lost hard to MUD (anyone know more about this matchup??) and ID'd. Felt great all day, made a couple bad judgments during the day upon reflection.

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Burning Wish
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Trinisphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Boom//Bust

Jelmerz77 took the whole thing down! He opted to play Call the Skybreaker over Pyroclasm. For the control match but there wasn't much of that around today.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Nice! Congrats guys. :cool:

[Ace/Homebrew]

Picked up the Spyglasses I needed along with a card I've always wanted. :laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/e3im4UG.jpg

[jandax]

Dat Forcefield! How much if I may ask?

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[megaflippo]

Hello Jandax,

was also at dutch legacy open: opted for a more 'monored stompy list' (more or less like mtgtop8 Andrew Son's list) instead of 'monored chandra control'; did very very bad! 4-3: had to wait for friends in the car who top16'ed.

Losing to UR delver, (very close) loss to grixis delver, loss to UW control (do U have any suggestions for this MU?) and merfolk.
Won against turbo depths, MUD and Sultai Delver.

Just referring to the MUD matchup: First game I was quicker and won.
Game 2 I was lucky to keep a fiery confluence in hand. Hid behind one and even two ensnaring bridge (after sideboarding those in) and waited for metalworker to come out with platinum emperion, steel hellkite : Fiery confluence getting rid of those 3 artifact creatures in one play and then 'letting Chandra TOD and quicksmith rebel' hit him from behind the bridge... he scooped.

Not that I am a 'specialist in Legacy of monored stompy, just letting U know what worked for me tbh ;).

Any suggestions for the MU I losed to are very welcome: certainly merfolk, UR delver and UW control if U have any??

PS liked the list of the winner a lot. almost same as 'pinkfrosting' on MTGO. Trying that one now...
Hidding behind a bridge never felt better in every MU I played yesterday, except UR delver who can quickly get 'below the bridge' :wink: ...



At 4-0 with chandrs stompy, Dutch legacy open. Theyre streaming at the time of this ppst on twitch

Edit: just lost a camera match to MuD but beat infect again to go 5 1 into the last round.

Edit edit:Got a top 8 and we split. Top 8 was 2 infect, 2 storm (JamieW89, 1 MUD, 2 Moon Walker (jelmerz77 and I) and Lands. Sweet ass meta. Went 5-1-1 drawing the last round as 4th seed with Jamie89 (on Storm). Beat Br Reanimator, Esper mentor, Eldrazi, infect twice, lost hard to MUD (anyone know more about this matchup??) and ID'd. Felt great all day, made a couple bad judgments during the day upon reflection.

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Burning Wish
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Trinisphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Boom//Bust

Jelmerz77 took the whole thing down! He opted to play Call the Skybreaker over Pyroclasm. For the control match but there wasn't much of that around today.

[Jelmerz77]

Hello Jandax,

was also at dutch legacy open: opted for a more 'monored stompy list' (more or less like mtgtop8 Andrew Son's list) instead of 'monored chandra control'; did very very bad! 4-3: had to wait for friends in the car who top16'ed.

Losing to UR delver, (very close) loss to grixis delver, loss to UW control (do U have any suggestions for this MU?) and merfolk.
Won against turbo depths, MUD and Sultai Delver.

Just referring to the MUD matchup: First game I was quicker and won.
Game 2 I was lucky to keep a fiery confluence in hand. Hid behind one and even two ensnaring bridge (after sideboarding those in) and waited for metalworker to come out with platinum emperion, steel hellkite : Fiery confluence getting rid of those 3 artifact creatures in one play and then 'letting Chandra TOD and quicksmith rebel' hit him from behind the bridge... he scooped.

Not that I am a 'specialist in Legacy of monored stompy, just letting U know what worked for me tbh ;).

Any suggestions for the MU I losed to are very welcome: certainly merfolk, UR delver and UW control if U have any??

PS liked the list of the winner a lot. almost same as 'pinkfrosting' on MTGO. Trying that one now...
Hidding behind a bridge never felt better in every MU I played yesterday, except UR delver who can quickly get 'below the bridge' :wink: ...


Jandax and I worked together on the Lists we were running there is 1 difference between our lists and that is that I had a Call the Skybreaker and Jandax list contained a Pyroclasm, I opted for the Call as I expected more Control (and this seemed a good wish target for it) However did not face it and a Pyroclasm would have been better, so I am back to Pyroclasm in the board over the Call the Skybreaker other than that our lists are identical.
Against the MUD matchup Fiery Confluence is key. Being able to wish for 1 is also pretty good. Game 1 of the Semis I was able to destroy a Crucible of Worlds, Smokestack and Metalworker with it, which he couldn't recover from.
Game 2 he mulled to 5 and his comeback was too late.

As suggestions to your losses, they can happen, as you are more aggro you are also more prone to aggro. Sweepers can help but they would also hurt your side of the table. Versus UW Controll usually a resolved Planeswalker seals the deal. Baiting out counters with lockpieces, in order of importance. and following that up with a Planeswalker.
But still the matchup can be touch. I have some slots in the SB dedicated for the MU.

Hope this helps.

[megaflippo]

Hi Jelmerz,

First of all congrats for the win!
Saw your finals vs infect on camera.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Did U consider anger of the gods in the SB instead of 1 of the pyroclasms? Having 3 damage getting through might be interesting vs - amongst others - monastery mentor tokens who get 'prowessed'... Pumping them 3 times might be difficult even for the control player who mostly has more cards in hand than 'we' do...

How did U sideboard against the different matchups?
Any suggestions for the most common MU?




Jandax and I worked together on the Lists we were running there is 1 difference between our lists and that is that I had a Call the Skybreaker and Jandax list contained a Pyroclasm, I opted for the Call as I expected more Control (and this seemed a good wish target for it) However did not face it and a Pyroclasm would have been better, so I am back to Pyroclasm in the board over the Call the Skybreaker other than that our lists are identical.
Against the MUD matchup Fiery Confluence is key. Being able to wish for 1 is also pretty good. Game 1 of the Semis I was able to destroy a Crucible of Worlds, Smokestack and Metalworker with it, which he couldn't recover from.
Game 2 he mulled to 5 and his comeback was too late.

As suggestions to your losses, they can happen, as you are more aggro you are also more prone to aggro. Sweepers can help but they would also hurt your side of the table. Versus UW Controll usually a resolved Planeswalker seals the deal. Baiting out counters with lockpieces, in order of importance. and following that up with a Planeswalker.
But still the matchup can be touch. I have some slots in the SB dedicated for the MU.

Hope this helps.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Dat Forcefield! How much if I may ask?
$325, SCG had it listed as HP but the scan looked pretty clean. :smile:

Transaction was all trades though. I gave up:

4 Magus of the Wheel
1 Coercive Portal
4 Collective Brutality
4 Thought-Knot Seer (Foil)
2 Flametongue Kavu (Foil)
1 Batterskull (Grand Prix) (Foil)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (Prerelease) (Foil)
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge (Foil)
4 Combat Celebrant (Foil)
1 Dig Through Time (Foil)
1 Treasure Cruise (Foil)
2 Ingot Chewer (Foil)
4 Spellskite
1 Batterskull (Foil)
And a handful of dollar rares...

------------------------------------

On topic, good to see pinkfrosting's Burning Wish idea gaining traction! It gives the deck a versatility it hasn't had since Moggcatcher.

Jandax/Jelmerz, how often do you get to play your wish target the same turn you find it? Versus having to wait until the following turn?

[Jelmerz77]

On topic, good to see pinkfrosting's Burning Wish idea gaining traction! It gives the deck a versatility it hasn't had since Moggcatcher.

Jandax/Jelmerz, how often do you get to play your wish target the same turn you find it? Versus having to wait until the following turn?

The versatility is what attracted me to Moggcatcher and that is also what draws me to the Wishboard.
Usually I play it the next turn it did came up once I played it the same turn. Did not really matter for me.
I most of the time had to wish under a 3Ball anyway and Fiery Confluence was the usual suspect.

[Jelmerz77]

Hi Jelmerz,

First of all congrats for the win!
Saw your finals vs infect on camera.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Did U consider anger of the gods in the SB instead of 1 of the pyroclasms? Having 3 damage getting through might be interesting vs - amongst others - monastery mentor tokens who get 'prowessed'... Pumping them 3 times might be difficult even for the control player who mostly has more cards in hand than 'we' do...

How did U sideboard against the different matchups?
Any suggestions for the most common MU?

Thx :)

Did I consider Anger of the gods? No. There is only 1 Pyroclasm and that serves a purpose, you want to be able to wish for a particular answer. Anger is double red, which can be a pain. And if you want to do 3 damage Confluence is better imo. Being able to wish and cast
Pyroclasm in the same turn for 4 mana is key I think. (which is actually based on nothing since I failed to run Pyroclasm :tongue:)

We came up with a SB plan for about the top 20 decks we expected to face. But I know for a fact I didn't follow that plan, as I most of the time boarded vs what I saw. Maybe Jandax can share the list and his thoughts on it.

[jandax]

Sideboarding Plan Moon Walker
Aggro:

Grixis Delver
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Death & Taxes
Out: 2 Chalice of the Void 1 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Eldrazi Aggro
Out: 3 Chalice of the void
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
UR Delver
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Trinisphere
Burn
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Trinisphere
Maverick
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
BUG Delver / 4 C (Patriot)
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge


Control:

Grixis Control
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Stoneblade
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
UWx Control
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
Lands
Out: 3 Trinisphere 2 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 4 Faerie Macabre 1 Ensnaring Bridge
BUG Midrange (Incl Czech Pile)
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Loam
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge




Control

Dragon Stompy (Mirror) Aggro Version
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Dragon Stompy (Mirror) Control Version
Out: -
In: -
(mull to Fiery Confluence)
Metalworker
Out 4 bridge
In 4 faerie macabre (disrupt stax and crucible)

Combo:

Storm
Out: 2 Ensnaring Bridge 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 1 Trinisphere 4 Faerie Macabre
Show & Tell
Out: 2 Fiery Confluence
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Elves
Out: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Magus of the Moon
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Kozilek’s Return
Reanimator
Out: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass 4 Blood Moon 1 Chalice of the Void
In: 4 Faerie Macabre 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Dark Depths
Out: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Kozilek’s Return
Food Griffin
Out: 2 magus
In: 2 return
×cotv@1 is good, @2 may be necessary, 3ball is god. Moons hurt but they always set up to go off so all lock pieces must work together. Need to kill them


This is our adapted sideboard plan. This generally come or in packages. Spyglass is out against combo, 3ball out against midrange. Chalice out against chalice decks 😰

Wishing is mostly done not as a set up but as a same turn play. For instance you can also wish for a silver bullet in a match on an off turn and play mind games. I've also had to go wish->pyroclasm or Boom in the same turn so that's why those 2cmc cards are there. Also went Chandra ult into new chandra for 5dmg, burning wish for 5dmg, chandra uptick 2dmg pyroclasm 5dmg in one turn to end the game.

@Megaflippo

Regarding those match ups, I can't speak as to strengths or weaknesses to your deck, could you link a list? I think chalice @2 would be a game breaker for merfolk, confluence and bridge pulling work too. Ur burn is just a tough match for us. Control comes down to skill and a resolved planeswalker, not a match i want to face.

[megaflippo]

Hi Jandax,

thanks for the reply and advice.

Concerning UR delver: just to quick for me 2 games, smash to smithereens is also a big problem...which he drew every game :((
Merfolk was quick as I played a bridge but could not unload the hand quick enough. Did not draw enough mana to get COV to 2;
Control UW as said before...while playing monored stompy and not having enough control was - certainly after sideboard - extremely hard.


My List was a fusion of the list of Andrew Son (U can find it on mtgtop8) and dragon stompy (Kudaira Syouta - mtggoldfish : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-pirate-stompy-and-other-things )

MB:
3 captain lannery storm
3 goblin rabblemaster
1 sin prodder
2 Territorial Hellkite
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Magus of the moon
1 hazoret the fervent
1 quicksmith rebel
4 simian spirit guide

4 chandra TOD
3 F confluence
1 Return of Kozilek
1 magma jet

4 COV
4 blood moon
4 chrome mox

4 City of T
4 Ancient Tomb
4 cavern of souls
8 mountains


SB
3 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Farie Macabre
2 magus of the moon.
1 Jitte

Wanted to see if Captain Lannery storm was any good: idea was to play him or rabblemaster quick: or U are threatening with GRabblemaster a lot of damage, or U are ramping into almost certainly 4 mana next turn. If U do not blood moon first u have uncounterable quick threats on the board with cavern.
Getting that "2nd" red mana (through treasure tokens) as always a big advantage. And if they would consider countering him, than U have other treats who are coming into play, because they cannot counter all of your spells...

Afterwards trying to resolve Stormbreath Dragon (not abrupt decayable, immune to STP, and fatal push) or throwing in big damage with Territorial Hellkite (kind of F confluence numer '5 and 6'... Again cavern on 'dragon' also possible if no blood moon effect, and a lot of haste creatures...

Can tell U that Lannery Storm is certainly not bad at all: most of opponents do not dare to block it until at least 2 turns, giving U 2 extra mana: probably because they do not know what's coming and maybe due to the threat of losing a piece to damage of lannery with sack of treasure tokens (giving him+1/+0/treasure token) and possible magma jet or F confluence after combat. The ramp is a much more 'stable' and free mana delivery than otherwise for plays in your second main phase.

I am just convinced that U guys made a better choice with more control version in the current meta. Aggro stompy against a lot of aggro stompy can be though as U said...



Sideboarding Plan Moon Walker
Aggro:

Grixis Delver
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Death & Taxes
Out: 2 Chalice of the Void 1 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Eldrazi Aggro
Out: 3 Chalice of the void
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
UR Delver
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Trinisphere
Burn
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Trinisphere
Maverick
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
BUG Delver / 4 C (Patriot)
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge


Control:

Grixis Control
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Stoneblade
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
UWx Control
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
Lands
Out: 3 Trinisphere 2 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 4 Faerie Macabre 1 Ensnaring Bridge
BUG Midrange (Incl Czech Pile)
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Loam
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge




Control

Dragon Stompy (Mirror) Aggro Version
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Dragon Stompy (Mirror) Control Version
Out: -
In: -
(mull to Fiery Confluence)
Metalworker
Out 4 bridge
In 4 faerie macabre (disrupt stax and crucible)

Combo:

Storm
Out: 2 Ensnaring Bridge 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 1 Trinisphere 4 Faerie Macabre
Show & Tell
Out: 2 Fiery Confluence
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Elves
Out: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Magus of the Moon
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Kozilek’s Return
Reanimator
Out: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass 4 Blood Moon 1 Chalice of the Void
In: 4 Faerie Macabre 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Dark Depths
Out: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Kozilek’s Return
Food Griffin
Out: 2 magus
In: 2 return
×cotv@1 is good, @2 may be necessary, 3ball is god. Moons hurt but they always set up to go off so all lock pieces must work together. Need to kill them


This is our adapted sideboard plan. This generally come or in packages. Spyglass is out against combo, 3ball out against midrange. Chalice out against chalice decks 😰

Wishing is mostly done not as a set up but as a same turn play. For instance you can also wish for a silver bullet in a match on an off turn and play mind games. I've also had to go wish->pyroclasm or Boom in the same turn so that's why those 2cmc cards are there. Also went Chandra ult into new chandra for 5dmg, burning wish for 5dmg, chandra uptick 2dmg pyroclasm 5dmg in one turn to end the game.

@Megaflippo

Regarding those match ups, I can't speak as to strengths or weaknesses to your deck, could you link a list? I think chalice @2 would be a game breaker for merfolk, confluence and bridge pulling work too. Ur burn is just a tough match for us. Control comes down to skill and a resolved planeswalker, not a match i want to face.

[jandax]

Hi, looks like you just need some more rounds under your belt to learn the ins and outs of your build better. We're playing two different beasts, traditional stompy and prison, all of which share the same mana base and lock pieces. Ill be happy to rap about the Moon Walker deck some but I don't want to give you bad advice because i don't know enough of the deck myself

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[The Duressed]

Sideboarding Plan Moon Walker
Aggro:

Grixis Delver
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Death & Taxes
Out: 2 Chalice of the Void 1 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Eldrazi Aggro
Out: 3 Chalice of the void
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
UR Delver
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Trinisphere
Burn
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Trinisphere
Maverick
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
BUG Delver / 4 C (Patriot)
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge


Control:

Grixis Control
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Stoneblade
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
UWx Control
Out: 4 Blood Moon
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
Lands
Out: 3 Trinisphere 2 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 4 Faerie Macabre 1 Ensnaring Bridge
BUG Midrange (Incl Czech Pile)
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Loam
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge




Control

Dragon Stompy (Mirror) Aggro Version
Out: 3 Trinisphere
In: 2 Kozilek’s Return 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Dragon Stompy (Mirror) Control Version
Out: -
In: -
(mull to Fiery Confluence)
Metalworker
Out 4 bridge
In 4 faerie macabre (disrupt stax and crucible)

Combo:

Storm
Out: 2 Ensnaring Bridge 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 1 Trinisphere 4 Faerie Macabre
Show & Tell
Out: 2 Fiery Confluence
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Elves
Out: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Magus of the Moon
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Kozilek’s Return
Reanimator
Out: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass 4 Blood Moon 1 Chalice of the Void
In: 4 Faerie Macabre 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Dark Depths
Out: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
In: 1 Trinisphere 1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Kozilek’s Return
Food Griffin
Out: 2 magus
In: 2 return
×cotv@1 is good, @2 may be necessary, 3ball is god. Moons hurt but they always set up to go off so all lock pieces must work together. Need to kill them


This is our adapted sideboard plan. This generally come or in packages. Spyglass is out against combo, 3ball out against midrange. Chalice out against chalice decks 😰

Wishing is mostly done not as a set up but as a same turn play. For instance you can also wish for a silver bullet in a match on an off turn and play mind games. I've also had to go wish->pyroclasm or Boom in the same turn so that's why those 2cmc cards are there. Also went Chandra ult into new chandra for 5dmg, burning wish for 5dmg, chandra uptick 2dmg pyroclasm 5dmg in one turn to end the game.

@Megaflippo

Regarding those match ups, I can't speak as to strengths or weaknesses to your deck, could you link a list? I think chalice @2 would be a game breaker for merfolk, confluence and bridge pulling work too. Ur burn is just a tough match for us. Control comes down to skill and a resolved planeswalker, not a match i want to face.


Jandax, take a look at your sideboard strategies.

In 16 of 21 match-ups, you bring in your Ensnaring Bridge
In 15 of 21 match-ups, you bring in 2 Kozilek's Return. In another match-up, you bring one in.


These cards are clearly worthy of maindeck slots - you play way more games with them than without them, and bring them in against over 75% of the field. Determining what to replace will probably depend on your metagame's percentage of each archetype, but in general it kind of seems like Trinisphere comes out a lot. Maybe trim a Spyglass too.

Again, this is based purely on your actual sideboard strategies. I don't personally get too excited about trimming Trinispheres, but it might be right to cut down your number of maindeck Spyglasses or maybe a Magus of the Moon.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Normally I would agree with your suggestion and the method you've used to derive it. And I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with it now...

But playing Burning Wish kinda messes with the method because his sideboard is effectively 8 cards, 4 of which are graveyard hate. When you consider he's really only got 4 cards to tweak his deck with, it's not surprising that they come in so much.

I'm admittedly theorycrafting here because I'm still collecting pieces to try out the Burning Wish list. :wink:

[Jelmerz77]

Jandax, take a look at your sideboard strategies.

In 16 of 21 match-ups, you bring in your Ensnaring Bridge
In 15 of 21 match-ups, you bring in 2 Kozilek's Return. In another match-up, you bring one in.


These cards are clearly worthy of maindeck slots - you play way more games with them than without them, and bring them in against over 75% of the field. Determining what to replace will probably depend on your metagame's percentage of each archetype, but in general it kind of seems like Trinisphere comes out a lot. Maybe trim a Spyglass too.

Again, this is based purely on your actual sideboard strategies. I don't personally get too excited about trimming Trinispheres, but it might be right to cut down your number of maindeck Spyglasses or maybe a Magus of the Moon.

Your assesment is based on the fact that you know what your opponent plays (That is why this is a SB strategy list) You usually don't know game 1.
It is not that Trinisphere is bad (It usually does it's job.) however post board there might be better options to wreck your opponents gameplan.

I did this sideboard strategy based on the Metagame on mtgtop8.com and using Pareto Principle (which basicly means leave out the 1%ers)
I was aiming with this strategy for a larger tournament (say 100 or more players) any local variance may apply.

The Sorcerous Spyglass was a testslot that I actually liked, it is versatile and gives you information Game 1 which can make you adjust your sequencing.
At the moment the only change I made was -1 Call the Skybreaker +1 Pyroclasm but I was happy with all the other cards.

And indeed the wishboard makes it that you get rid of your "dead" cards in that particular matchup and replace them with the "usual suspects".

The Metagame is roughly devided in 40% Aggro, 30% Controll and 30% Combo. In my oppinion that 40% does not warrant maindecking Kozilek's Return, I would start thinking that direction if it goes more in the direction of 50%.

[jandax]

Your assesment is based on the fact that you know what your opponent plays (That is why this is a SB strategy list) You usually don't know game 1.
It is not that Trinisphere is bad (It usually does it's job.) however post board there might be better options to wreck your opponents gameplan.

I did this sideboard strategy based on the Metagame on mtgtop8.com and using Pareto Principle (which basicly means leave out the 1%ers)
I was aiming with this strategy for a larger tournament (say 100 or more players) any local variance may apply.

The Sorcerous Spyglass was a testslot that I actually liked, it is versatile and gives you information Game 1 which can make you adjust your sequencing.
At the moment the only change I made was -1 Call the Skybreaker +1 Pyroclasm but I was happy with all the other cards.

And indeed the wishboard makes it that you get rid of your "dead" cards in that particular matchup and replace them with the "usual suspects".

The Metagame is roughly devided in 40% Aggro, 30% Controll and 30% Combo. In my oppinion that 40% does not warrant maindecking Kozilek's Return, I would start thinking that direction if it goes more in the direction of 50%.I'll back this up and add @the duressed and ace_homebrew that our strategy is based about the numbers homebrew touched. His "theorycrafting" is fairly spot on. Given all this jelmer and I spiked the tournament (á 100 players with local flavor) we set out to. I'm certain that our list is good to go and will be open to discussing card swaps for different metas than ours.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[The Duressed]

Your assesment is based on the fact that you know what your opponent plays (That is why this is a SB strategy list) You usually don't know game 1.
It is not that Trinisphere is bad (It usually does it's job.) however post board there might be better options to wreck your opponents gameplan.

I did this sideboard strategy based on the Metagame on mtgtop8.com and using Pareto Principle (which basicly means leave out the 1%ers)
I was aiming with this strategy for a larger tournament (say 100 or more players) any local variance may apply.

The Sorcerous Spyglass was a testslot that I actually liked, it is versatile and gives you information Game 1 which can make you adjust your sequencing.
At the moment the only change I made was -1 Call the Skybreaker +1 Pyroclasm but I was happy with all the other cards.

And indeed the wishboard makes it that you get rid of your "dead" cards in that particular matchup and replace them with the "usual suspects".

The Metagame is roughly devided in 40% Aggro, 30% Controll and 30% Combo. In my oppinion that 40% does not warrant maindecking Kozilek's Return, I would start thinking that direction if it goes more in the direction of 50%.

When I look at this list, you guys bring in Ensnaring Bridge so often that the only times you don't want it are specific match-ups. Again, these are the minority of situations. You talk about focusing on the most frequent situations and ignoring or marginalizing the lower percentages - that's exactly what I'm trying to describe.

I'll break things down another way. The only match-ups in which you don't want that 4th Ensnaring Bridge are:

Storm
Food Griffin
Metalworker
Dragon Stompy (both variants)

Depending on the metagame, Storm may be up to 10%-15% (mtgtop8 puts it at 5% of top 8s). The rest of these decks are truly fringe players, unlikely to contribute more than 5% of the metagame even if you put all of them together. This means you want that Ensnaring Bridge something like 80% of the time. That sounds like a card I want in my opening 7 against an unknown opponent for sure.

I could be a bit more flexible in my stance on Kozilek's Return. It's more heavily a meta call, but again I'll write down the list of match-ups where you don't bring in at least one copy:

Storm
Show and Tell
Reanimator
Lands
Dragon Stompy - Control mirror

If these decks comprise the entirety of combo's 30% metagame share in your area, plus a little bit for Lands, you want a copy of Return in 65% of situations. Are you confident that whatever is in this slots is exciting and maybe game-breaking in at least 65% of match-ups?

I do apologize that I didn't look more closely at your 60 before my previous post, and I've got a question for you. In combo match-ups such as these, is Burning Wish a live card? Seems like the only thing it could do against Storm, Reanimator or S&T would be to get some targeted land destruction or Armageddon effects. Has that been working out well? (I assure you this isn't a critique repackaged as a question - I've never tested with Burning Wish in a Dragon Stompy shell).




Normally I would agree with your suggestion and the method you've used to derive it. And I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with it now...

But playing Burning Wish kinda messes with the method because his sideboard is effectively 8 cards, 4 of which are graveyard hate. When you consider he's really only got 4 cards to tweak his deck with, it's not surprising that they come in so much.

I'm admittedly theorycrafting here because I'm still collecting pieces to try out the Burning Wish list. :wink:

Ace/Homebrew, I'm trying to attack it from the other angle. When a player brings cards in from their sideboard, it's because they're better in the match-up than what's being replaced - usually much better. If Ensnaring bridge is better than some other card in 4 match-ups out of 5, then it's the other card that belongs in the sideboard to be brought in for games 2 and 3 in the 20% pairing. Wish-boards have little to do with that particular concept.

[jandax]

Seems to me like you're doing too much theory crafting. Drop the logic you're using that says "if X comes in so much it should be maindeck..."

The truth is with Burning Wish decks is that one doesn't have to sideboard much. To add to the truth, oversideboarding decreases the efficiency of this deck (mono red so it needs all the %'s possible)

The non wish cards in the sideboard could be flexible, for example kozileks return could be another wish target and/or more GY hate/permanent removal of another sort/ect. Our sideboard guide is just that, a guide. In the most common match ups, we're either in a fine position and don't have to board much, or in touch matchups we know just what is a dud maindeck and swapping cards out is easy. Sometimes its s question of whats worse maindeck, card x or a sideboard card then you make the swap given the match situation.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Jelmerz77]

When I look at this list, you guys bring in Ensnaring Bridge so often that the only times you don't want it are specific match-ups. Again, these are the minority of situations. You talk about focusing on the most frequent situations and ignoring or marginalizing the lower percentages - that's exactly what I'm trying to describe.

I'll break things down another way. The only match-ups in which you don't want that 4th Ensnaring Bridge are:

Storm
Food Griffin
Metalworker
Dragon Stompy (both variants)

Depending on the metagame, Storm may be up to 10%-15% (mtgtop8 puts it at 5% of top 8s). The rest of these decks are truly fringe players, unlikely to contribute more than 5% of the metagame even if you put all of them together. This means you want that Ensnaring Bridge something like 80% of the time. That sounds like a card I want in my opening 7 against an unknown opponent for sure.

I could be a bit more flexible in my stance on Kozilek's Return. It's more heavily a meta call, but again I'll write down the list of match-ups where you don't bring in at least one copy:

Storm
Show and Tell
Reanimator
Lands
Dragon Stompy - Control mirror

If these decks comprise the entirety of combo's 30% metagame share in your area, plus a little bit for Lands, you want a copy of Return in 65% of situations. Are you confident that whatever is in this slots is exciting and maybe game-breaking in at least 65% of match-ups?

I do apologize that I didn't look more closely at your 60 before my previous post, and I've got a question for you. In combo match-ups such as these, is Burning Wish a live card? Seems like the only thing it could do against Storm, Reanimator or S&T would be to get some targeted land destruction or Armageddon effects. Has that been working out well? (I assure you this isn't a critique repackaged as a question - I've never tested with Burning Wish in a Dragon Stompy shell).





Ace/Homebrew, I'm trying to attack it from the other angle. When a player brings cards in from their sideboard, it's because they're better in the match-up than what's being replaced - usually much better. If Ensnaring bridge is better than some other card in 4 match-ups out of 5, then it's the other card that belongs in the sideboard to be brought in for games 2 and 3 in the 20% pairing. Wish-boards have little to do with that particular concept.

I am fine about a challenge / discussion about why a card should be in the SB or in the maindeck, thing is that your approach is very black / white.
Yes I / we might board in the Bridge alot. That for me does not mean that it therefore warrants a maindeck slot.
I will take this the other way around, you say the 4th bridge has to go maindeck, so what has to go then?
If I look at the maindeck, I really like the manabase atm so that would be a no go area for me, so;

Manabase:
11 Mountain = no go
4 City of Traitors = no go
4 Ancient Tomb = no go
4 Chrome Mox = no go
4 Simian Spirit guide = no go

This is the core of the deck, if this starts to fall apart, it is time to change decks.
Prison Package:
4 Blood Moon = no go
3 Magus of the Moon = no go
3 Trinisphere = no go
4 Chalice of the Void = no go
3 Ensnaring Bridge = no go as that would be swap bridges :)

Wincons: (If I could I would even go up 1, but not a Pyromaster)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance = no go
2 Chandra, Pyromaster = no go

Various slots:
3 Fiery Confluence = no go, this is the "Allstar" in the deck this the nr 1 Wishtarget in the board.
4 Burning Wish (The versatility is the thing that I like here, get LD for their basic, get a sweeper, get artifact removal, get creature removal)
That leaves 1 card;
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
I like Sorcerous Spyglass, it is versatile, it gives you information, it is not a 3 drop (and for me this is HUGE atm) it gives you something to do next to Chalice of the Void with just 2 mana available.
So in this version of the deck I would leave the 4th Bridge in the board.
This is the way I see it now, and I tried to explain the reasoning behind it.

Jelmer

[frogger42]

I am fine about a challenge / discussion about why a card should be in the SB or in the maindeck, thing is that your approach is very black / white.
Yes I / we might board in the Bridge alot. That for me does not mean that it therefore warrants a maindeck slot.
I will take this the other way around, you say the 4th bridge has to go maindeck, so what has to go then?
If I look at the maindeck, I really like the manabase atm so that would be a no go area for me, so;

Manabase:
11 Mountain = no go
4 City of Traitors = no go
4 Ancient Tomb = no go
4 Chrome Mox = no go
4 Simian Spirit guide = no go

This is the core of the deck, if this starts to fall apart, it is time to change decks.
Prison Package:
4 Blood Moon = no go
3 Magus of the Moon = no go
3 Trinisphere = no go
4 Chalice of the Void = no go
3 Ensnaring Bridge = no go as that would be swap bridges :)

Wincons: (If I could I would even go up 1, but not a Pyromaster)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance = no go
2 Chandra, Pyromaster = no go

Various slots:
3 Fiery Confluence = no go, this is the "Allstar" in the deck this the nr 1 Wishtarget in the board.
4 Burning Wish (The versatility is the thing that I like here, get LD for their basic, get a sweeper, get artifact removal, get creature removal)
That leaves 1 card;
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
I like Sorcerous Spyglass, it is versatile, it gives you information, it is not a 3 drop (and for me this is HUGE atm) it gives you something to do next to Chalice of the Void with just 2 mana available.
So in this version of the deck I would leave the 4th Bridge in the board.
This is the way I see it now, and I tried to explain the reasoning behind it.

Jelmer

Hey Jelmer!
I think I'm going to play Dragon's Advocate here and ask Duressed's question. It looks like you SB out your Trinisphere a lot - basically, you keep it in for Combo MUs. Is that worth pushing into the SB and considering something else there?

And I'm honestly not sure why you'd take out the Trinisphere in aggro MUs, especially against Delver. That seems like a brick house there, way better than Bridge - shut off FoW, Daze, and sometimes just lock them when they're on 2 lands, which is turns #1-#7. I would definitely run 3-Sphere against Y Pyro especially, it's crazy not to, and drop Bridge against anything with reach (Bolt/Lightning/Smash/ maybe DRS too). Bridge is definitely not an all-star in all creature MUs - too many times I've been smashed by tokens or other weenies.

[jandax]

Its the player's call really, since this guide is more of a thought pattern than fixed swap of cards. You're right 3ball is wonderful in the match up. Leave it in if your opponent rolls over to it!

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[Jelmerz77]

Hey Jelmer!
I think I'm going to play Dragon's Advocate here and ask Duressed's question. It looks like you SB out your Trinisphere a lot - basically, you keep it in for Combo MUs. Is that worth pushing into the SB and considering something else there?

And I'm honestly not sure why you'd take out the Trinisphere in aggro MUs, especially against Delver. That seems like a brick house there, way better than Bridge - shut off FoW, Daze, and sometimes just lock them when they're on 2 lands, which is turns #1-#7. I would definitely run 3-Sphere against Y Pyro especially, it's crazy not to, and drop Bridge against anything with reach (Bolt/Lightning/Smash/ maybe DRS too). Bridge is definitely not an all-star in all creature MUs - too many times I've been smashed by tokens or other weenies.

Well in the Top 8 there were 2 Storm decks and 1 Infect deck and a Elves deck in the top 8, So I guess that this makes that a good decision. In the Netherlands there always has been a higher percentage of Storm players then average, so that is also something to consider.

And yes it might be better so sideout bridges in certain aggro matchups. (and I know for sure that I didn't even follow the guide all the time)

[Captain Hammer]

Excellent post Helmer

The only thing I disagree with is Chandra Pyromaster. Koth of the Hammer is faster and superior 9 times out of 10.

Is Fairie Macabre really the best way to answer graveyard decks or is Leyline of the Void better?

I wish there was a red sorcery that doubles as graveyard hate.

[jandax]

Disagree away but pyromaster is fairly good. Koth is inferior because he is an aggro card that doesn't fit in a prison shell. Try it, you'll see.

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[Jelmerz77]

Excellent post Helmer

The only thing I disagree with is Chandra Pyromaster. Koth of the Hammer is faster and superior 9 times out of 10.

Is Fairie Macabre really the best way to answer graveyard decks or is Leyline of the Void better?

I wish there was a red sorcery that doubles as graveyard hate.

In an Aggro build Koth of the Hammer is superior. In this particular Prison shell the +1 ability probably does nothing because you might hide behind a bridge. Since you go as low as possible on creatures Koth of the Hammer makes your manabase targetable by the opponents otherwise useless removal. The -2 is good if you have a Moon out otherwise it is just mediocre. The -5 ranges from good to great depending on Moon out or not.

The 0 ability s where Chandra, Pyromaster shines both other abilities are mediocre but can be usefull, picking off 1/1's etc (copying Fiery Confluence with the -7 ability is ofcourse the magical christmasland)

The downside of Leyline is that you can play around is (waiting for bounce etc) and you have to aggressively Mulligan for it and it is a horrible draw.
Faerie Macabre isn't a permanent solution but more of a speedbump, I am not sold on it either but I think it is be best option atm. Tormod's Crypt also might be an option.

I would like that sorcery too :wink:
I would also like a second top tier red planeswalker.

[jandax]

Or a fiery confluence on a stick( or planeswalker) ... [emoji848]

do want!

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[fluuu]

Can someone post a good goblin prison deck?
I would aprecciate so much

[frogger42]

Can someone post a good goblin prison deck?
I would aprecciate so much

Hey fluuu, this list is a little more than a year old, but I think it's the newest one out there:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=971468&viewfull=1#post971468

Having played Dragon Stompy without Moggcatcher, I've got a few comments about this list posted. #1 - I hate Cavern, because you have a split between Goblins and Humans, and humans are what you really want to resolve. If you're at 3 mana, and you have to, you drop Cavern for Gobos, and get locked out of Moggcatcher. I think Cavern should be more Mountains.
#2 - I tried playing Moggcatcher a few times, and some MUs make it absolutely dead - generally MUs with Jitte / SoFI / Punishing Fire. These all keep you from getting card advantage off of Moggcatcher, or from dealing with the offending cards that will lock you out of the game. Ensnaring Bridge is probably the best way to deal with SoFI, but only solves about half the problem cards.
#3 - Hazoret the Fervent. (Plus equipment.)

I think the Jittes are definitely awesome in a 20+ creature deck, and maybe a couple SoFIs can hit the SB. Keep in mind Jitte and SoFI can deal with Deathrites and other mana dorks that would normally get around Blood Moon.

I've got a non-Moggcatcher list and you don't *need* Recruiters, but they certainly help out a lot! Plus, Recruiters net you the card right away, unlike Moggcatcher, so you can smash the offending Jitte. If you find Moggcatcher weak in your meta, I'd just replace it with Fiery Confluence (to kill equip) and consider more beaters, like Hanweir Garrison.

[SDBobPlissken]

Still currently playing the burning wish package to relative success. Got absolutely slaughtered against sneak and show last week at my lgs. I was thinking of splashing black for slaughter games. Could be boarded in and also is a wish target game 1. Does anyone think it would be feasible? If I were going to do it I’d probably play 2 badlands with 4-5 fetch. I’m already playing one petal so maybe play two more in place of 2 chrome mox. Also with the black splash I was thinking of maybe cutting one or two magus of the moon in place of new daretti. I don’t think magus of the moon is winning the game and I usually end up cutting two of them even if my opponent is playing all nonbasics if they are playing red. If magus doesn’t get countered he can still get hit by removal.

During the Omni-tell dig through time days imperial painter would splash both white and black. The black was typically for slaughter games and engineered plague. That mana base worked using 1 badlands 5 fetch and 3 petals.

Any thoughts?

[jandax]

Sometimes a match just sucks, is changing the moonwalker deck might shore it up but would it be worth the compromise in other matchups that were already good?

Or maybe a black splash in the manabase and maindeck Slaughter Games instead of Spyglass because you know your matchups anyway, right? Hmm...either Christmasland dreams or a good option moving forward into a shifting meta. How much SnS do you see at a given tournament?

[SDBobPlissken]

Sometimes a match just sucks, is changing the moonwalker deck might shore it up but would it be worth the compromise in other matchups that were already good?

Or maybe a black splash in the manabase and maindeck Slaughter Games instead of Spyglass because you know your matchups anyway, right? Hmm...either Christmasland dreams or a good option moving forward into a shifting meta. How much SnS do you see at a given tournament?

There is always the same person running it at my lgs who I seem to always face especially in the later rounds (usually means we both have winning records. So I’d say guaranteed at least one person running it probably not more than three on a given night of 15-20 players.

My current list is

11 mountain
8 sol land

4 chrome mox
1 petal
4 ssg
4 bridge
4 Chandra torch of defiance
2 Chandra pyromaster
4 burning wish
3 fiery confluence
4 blood moon
4 magus of the moon
3 trinisphere
4 chalice

Sideboard:

4 leyline of the void
2 sourcerous spyglass
1 trinisphere
1 stone rain
1 banefire
1 rolling earthquake
1 boiling seas
1 roast
1 fiery confluence
1 shattering spree

Splashing black:

+2 badlands, +5 red fetch, - 7 mountains
+ 2 lotus petal, - 2 chrome mox
+2 new daretti, -2 magus

Sideboard:

+2 slaughtergames, -1 trinisphere, -1 stone rain.

[kinghrothgar12]

For the moonwalker sideboard, what is the rationale for faerie macabre instead of something more permanent than the black leyline of the void? Is it advisable to keep the faerie macabre or has anyone tested out the leylines of the void?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Faerie Macabre is a live card whenever you see it. Leylines can ONLY affect the game before it starts.

It is largely personal preference. Many users would advocate for Leylines. I prefer the faeries.

[AceOfJacks]

For the moonwalker sideboard, what is the rationale for faerie macabre instead of something more permanent than the black leyline of the void? Is it advisable to keep the faerie macabre or has anyone tested out the leylines of the void?

Re: Faerie Macabre:

Against dredge: Might not be good enough, because there's a lot of different things you want to hit. However, if you can land an ensnaring bridge and empty your hand, you might be able to hide against the important creatures and try to save the Faerie for key cards.

Against B/R Reanimator: You're screwed. There's a high chance your opponent will have turn 1 discard spell, so your Faerie or Tormod's Crypt will get discarded. Leyline forces them to answer if or look for a Show and Tell (if they sided those in against you.)

Against 1manaplaneswalker (Deathrite Shaman): You can usually get away with Faerie here, because they eat their own stuff, and try to use Snapcaster for value. A well timed Faerie can shut them down, or it could be something that shrinks a Goyf if they killed/countered your bridge.

Against Past in Flames decks: You already have trinisphere, chalice, and blood moon. I haven't needed to bring in grave hate against them.

I'm probably missing an important archetype out there, but as previously stated, it's personal preference. Just note that if you're siding in Leylines, you probably have to aggressively mulligan for them. Also, be prepared to hold any extra Chrome Moxen you draw, as you will need a way to ditch the other leylines you draw while hiding behind a bridge,

[Jelmerz77]

Re: Faerie Macabre:

Against dredge: Might not be good enough, because there's a lot of different things you want to hit. However, if you can land an ensnaring bridge and empty your hand, you might be able to hide against the important creatures and try to save the Faerie for key cards.

Against B/R Reanimator: You're screwed. There's a high chance your opponent will have turn 1 discard spell, so your Faerie or Tormod's Crypt will get discarded. Leyline forces them to answer if or look for a Show and Tell (if they sided those in against you.)

Against 1manaplaneswalker (Deathrite Shaman): You can usually get away with Faerie here, because they eat their own stuff, and try to use Snapcaster for value. A well timed Faerie can shut them down, or it could be something that shrinks a Goyf if they killed/countered your bridge.

Against Past in Flames decks: You already have trinisphere, chalice, and blood moon. I haven't needed to bring in grave hate against them.

I'm probably missing an important archetype out there, but as previously stated, it's personal preference. Just note that if you're siding in Leylines, you probably have to aggressively mulligan for them. Also, be prepared to hold any extra Chrome Moxen you draw, as you will need a way to ditch the other leylines you draw while hiding behind a bridge,

Exactly this, and it might come in handy vs Aluren to disrupt the combo.

[jandax]

Against storm Macabre also better than ensnaring bridge, keep them off PiF targets or off cabal ritual threshold for free. The rest of the deck is good to go against storm.



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[QQQ]

The main thing is, if they run them in their SB, people will always bring in answers to Leyline. Simply because it's highly probably those answers also are relevant against a great deal of the deck regardless of Leyline. They only might be able to deal with Macabre.

[Captain Hammer]

There is no such thing as having too many Burning Wish targets in the board. I generally leave in the two most important wish targets against any matchup in the board and then board in anything else from the wish board that can be useful against that matchup.

That said, I need suggestions to cut a card from the board. This is what my list looks like...

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Burning Wish
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Trinisphere
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Boom//Bust
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Shattering Spree
1 Call the Skybreaker

I love every single BW target but I want to cut one and I can't figure out which one is the most redundant.

I want to cut a card from the board to play a Ensnaring Bridge in the board and put a 3rd Sorcerer's Spyglass main deck.




Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Trinisphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Boom//Bust

Beautiful deck. But surely rolling earthquake (extremely versatile sweeper), call the skybreaker (singlehandedly beats control decks) and shattering spree (uncounterable if you have the mana to sink into it) deserve the sideboard slots more than Kozilek's Return, no?

Are both Stone Rain and Boom//Bust useful in the same board or is it too redundant? Are they there to give you the ability to take out two different basics?

[Jelmerz77]

There is no such thing as having too many Burning Wish targets in the board. I generally leave in the two most important wish targets against any matchup in the board and then board in anything else from the wish board that can be useful against that matchup.

That said, I need suggestions to cut a card from the board. This is what my list looks like...

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Burning Wish
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Trinisphere
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Boom//Bust
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Shattering Spree
1 Call the Skybreaker

I love every single BW target but I want to cut one and I can't figure out which one is the most redundant.

I want to cut a card from the board to play a Ensnaring Bridge in the board and put a 3rd Sorcerer's Spyglass main deck.




Beautiful deck. But surely rolling earthquake (extremely versatile sweeper), call the skybreaker (singlehandedly beats control decks) and shattering spree (uncounterable if you have the mana to sink into it) deserve the sideboard slots more than Kozilek's Return, no?

Are both Stone Rain and Boom//Bust useful in the same board or is it too redundant? Are they there to give you the ability to take out two different basics?

Stone Rain and Boom//Bust are both in there as targets for the single basics (I would not wish for these without a moon effect out)
I just wanted to have a second option and there is a marginal chance you want to play Bust at some situation)

My reasoning for the choice of sweepers was the following:
1 of the main reasons you need sweepers etc is Death & Taxes; it is the second most played Aggro deck and it can give Moonwalker serious problems. Mother of Runes can in case of a sweeper protection to there most important creature, and we will be stuck with that. Since Kozilek's Return is colorless you don't have that issue.
Yes Rolling Earthquake is extremely versatile (and expensive) but where do we want to use the sweepers against?
With Fiery Confluence and Pyroclasm available as wish targets everything with touchness 3 or less dies. All the larger creatures I don't want to kill, I just want to sit behind my Bridge and chill.
For the opponent that goes wide you need the sweepers, for the opponent that goes big you need the Bridges.

Call the Skybreaker was my option vs UW(X) Control in particular, however I didn't see it played as much as I anticipated.
Therefor I now run the Pyroclasm over it since that card was the only difference between between Jandax SB and mine.

Jelmer

[jandax]

There is no such thing as having too many Burning Wish targets in the board. I generally leave in the two most important wish targets against any matchup in the board and then board in anything else from the wish board that can be useful against that matchup.

That said, I need suggestions to cut a card from the board. This is what my list looks like...

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Burning Wish
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Trinisphere
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Boom//Bust
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Shattering Spree
1 Call the Skybreaker

I love every single BW target but I want to cut one and I can't figure out which one is the most redundant.

I want to cut a card from the board to play a Ensnaring Bridge in the board and put a 3rd Sorcerer's Spyglass main deck.




Beautiful deck. But surely rolling earthquake (extremely versatile sweeper), call the skybreaker (singlehandedly beats control decks) and shattering spree (uncounterable if you have the mana to sink into it) deserve the sideboard slots more than Kozilek's Return, no?

Are both Stone Rain and Boom//Bust useful in the same board or is it too redundant? Are they there to give you the ability to take out two different basics?Those are all valid wish targets, and in a different meta any of those options could go in. I think the returns should stay honestly. My maindeck is fairly settled right now and given the luxury of a wish board Im in the habit of taking loose cards and walking around the venue to scout things out. But if you do this keep those loose cards way away from your deck, the potential to cheat is great. Just don't forgrt to mark any swaps on your deck list!



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[Ace/Homebrew]

Yes Rolling Earthquake is extremely versatile (and expensive) but where do we want to use the sweepers against?
You should splurge and spend the $4! :tongue:

Edit: You guys made TCDecks!
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=25702&iddeck=201784
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=25702&iddeck=201791

[jandax]

Haha and mtgtop8 [emoji849]

It's not about the $4, we both play Arabian Nights Mountains...Rolling Earthquake was cut because of redundancy. It can easily come back in lieu of another reasibly redundant effect.

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[Ace/Homebrew]

If Jelmer was standing next to me as I said that, my elbow would have been digging into his ribs.
It's clear he didn't even consider the FtV version to be a playable Magic card. :wink:

Rolling Earthquake is a superior board wipe when your opponent has a Planeswalker on the board because you can redirect the damage to opponent to the walker. Not saying it deserves a spot over Pyroclasm, just adding to the dialogue.

[jandax]

Haha I know he wouldn't get caught dead with a FTV foil, and you're absolutely right against PW heavy decks it's quite good. But Banefire has priority bc of the uncountable.

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[frogger42]

There is no such thing as having too many Burning Wish targets in the board. I generally leave in the two most important wish targets against any matchup in the board and then board in anything else from the wish board that can be useful against that matchup.

That said, I need suggestions to cut a card from the board. This is what my list looks like...

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Burning Wish
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Trinisphere
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Boom//Bust
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Shattering Spree
1 Call the Skybreaker

I love every single BW target but I want to cut one and I can't figure out which one is the most redundant.

I want to cut a card from the board to play a Ensnaring Bridge in the board and put a 3rd Sorcerer's Spyglass main deck.

Shattering Spree - Fiery Confluence has the same effect. To make it "uncounterable" through a chalice, you need RRR. And RRRR to smash 3 artis.
Boom/Bust - Stone Rain to hit the basic. Bust looks like a long shot to cast.
Rolling Earthquaje - Confluence also sweeps and domes PW'ers.
Call the Skybreaker - I can't imagine anything short of a miracle allowing you to cast this. I'd think that the goblin version of Icatian Town would be better, and still not good enough. I guess it does pitch to FoW...

[jandax]

I'd like to address boom bust:
Boom is great when you have a moon out but if they already fetched or played one of few basics, set up your wish into boom sacrificing a City of Traitors before you play your land. This involves taking a turn off but if you have other lock pieces out (trini or bridge) then the time could be mitigated imho. Going long for Armageddon is also a game plan against control, where you'll need to set up a chrome mox or two before pulling the trigger. Being ahead of the control deck after a sweeper is about the only position to be in that'll let you win. These are marginal examples but do illustrate how a little creativity can turn a mediocre card into a game winner.

Call the Skybreaker is uncastable.

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[megaflippo]

Shattering Spree - Fiery Confluence has the same effect. To make it "uncounterable" through a chalice, you need RRR. And RRRR to smash 3 artis.
Boom/Bust - Stone Rain to hit the basic. Bust looks like a long shot to cast.
Rolling Earthquaje - Confluence also sweeps and domes PW'ers.
Call the Skybreaker - I can't imagine anything short of a miracle allowing you to cast this. I'd think that the goblin version of Icatian Town would be better, and still not good enough. I guess it does pitch to FoW...

Hello Guys,

played the exact list here above yesterday (4 bridges): 7 rounds of Swiss going 4-3:

- losing to infect (made mistake), losing to 9-post and Stoneblade;

- Winning against Burn, Merfolk, 4CLoam, Grixis Control.

A few thoughts and questions, since I have made quite a few mistakes (still need a lot of more play experience) IMO against all quite favorable matchups, only perhaps the last game against Stoneblade I might be disadvantaged due to a lot of basic lands ao...

- Sorcerous Spyglass: made mistakes concerning naming fetchlands to slow down opponent made me lose to infect, or at least reduce my chances to win. Any advice would be welcome which cards to name 'blind' if U do not have a legal target in their hand against different matchups.

- Played out Chalice of the void several times yesterday on "2" against merfolk, burn, 9-post (had to because of perilous voyage which bounces my moon / bridge, also against snapcaster/ sylvan library) and even UW stoneblade deck with burning wish still in my deck. I am not totally convinced this is a mistake since U have to slow them down, there are still enough options and win conditions in your deck... On the other hand Bwishing for a sweeper...is good if they do not counter it...

So which choice to make: leave the chalice on 2 'in your hand' (which can be a problem for your bridge) or play it on 2. I am totally convinced that it demolishes merfolk and gives burn a lot of trouble since they cannot "smash to smithereen" your other artifacts (or for example chalice on "one" which I had). But do U board the wishes out (for example replacing them with kozilek's return or others) to be able to play the chalice on 2 or do U leave both in the deck? It definitely slowed my opponents down with 9 post and UW stoneblade... gvinng me more chances to win.


So maybe the more experience Moonwalker players can help me out... ;)...!

[Ace/Homebrew]

Can't really comment on the Burning Wish questions, but Spyglass should name Inkmoth Nexus against Infect! :wink:

[jandax]

The fact that you're aware of the situations where CotV 2 is solid is already a good sign. Wish is a great card but if they just don't beat a CotV on 2 then go with that every time. You'll just have to prioritize how you win.

Still don't know how you lost to infect, they're such a dog. Board out your three spyglasses for a bridge, sphere and a return. Pyromaster is a house here, ping their infect critters and make them blow their pumps. Moon is a house. Cotv is a house. 3ball is a house. The whole deck just shits on their parade.



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[megaflippo]

The fact that you're aware of the situations where CotV 2 is solid is already a good sign. Wish is a great card but if they just don't beat a CotV on 2 then go with that every time. You'll just have to prioritize how you win.

Still don't know how you lost to infect, they're such a dog. Board out your three spyglasses for a bridge, sphere and a return. Pyromaster is a house here, ping their infect critters and make them blow their pumps. Moon is a house. Cotv is a house. 3ball is a house. The whole deck just shits on their parade.



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How I lost to infect:
Game 1: not knowing what I was up against : I played sorcerous spyglass turn one (which can give good info)... he had already forest out and had misty rainforest and blighted agent and pumpspells in hand. Did not name misty rainforest (= BIG MISTAKE I KNOW.... can't even remember what I named) and he went on to play the blighted agent and played pump spells through a trinisphere. I did not drew anything else that did not get countered or that could stop his blighted agent.

Game 2 he counters both my blood moon and magus of the moon and FOW or spell pierces something else giving him time and opportunity to beat me down with one creature he landed early and an inkmoth nexus...

So Game 2 really not that big mistakes, but definitely game 1 = I must admit ... big mistake, still learning a lot :eek::eek::eek:

[jandax]

How I lost to infect:
Game 1: not knowing what I was up against : I played sorcerous spyglass turn one (which can give good info)... he had already forest out and had misty rainforest and blighted agent and pumpspells in hand. Did not name misty rainforest (= BIG MISTAKE I KNOW.... can't even remember what I named) and he went on to play the blighted agent and played pump spells through a trinisphere. I did not drew anything else that did not get countered or that could stop his blighted agent.

Game 2 he counters both my blood moon and magus of the moon and FOW or spell pierces something else giving him time and opportunity to beat me down with one creature he landed early and an inkmoth nexus...

So Game 2 really not that big mistakes, but definitely game 1 = I must admit ... big mistake, still learning a lot :eek::eek::eek:I see, sometimes thems the breaks. I've played against it relatively often and you'll do fine running your hate out if you know how to prioritize. Magus gives you the most draw steps because he can block and shuts off nexus. Chandra is great here and sad you didnt draw into burn spells or bridge

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[Captain Hammer]

Call the Skybreaker is uncastable.

Why? 7 mana isn't that hard to get to versus control. The deck plays 23 permanent mana sources (and 4 Simian spirit guides).

It gives the deck inevitability vs control even and especially when you're mana flooded.


Overall, shattering spree seems like the weakest option, the one we can most easily get away with cutting since Fiery Confluence serves the same function. But maybe I'm mistaken. How have people liked the card?

[jandax]

I think just killing them is the key to control matchup. As the nonblue deck I don't want to go long

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[Captain Hammer]

I think just killing them is the key to control matchup. As the nonblue deck I don't want to go long

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That's not easy to do. Control just needs to counter your planes walkers and they retain control of the game. With no card selection, D. Stompy has no way to avoid mana flood or deal with excess lands in their hand. Control has no way to answer Call the skybreaker, since you can recast it every turn.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Control has no way to answer Call the skybreaker, since you can recast it every turn.
You can cast it every time you draw a land. :wink:

[Jelmerz77]

I think just killing them is the key to control matchup. As the nonblue deck I don't want to go long

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Well in the Goblin version you had the option not to go long (early Rabblemaster), in this build you don't have that option, and with just 6 Planeswalkers you will sometimes be forced to go long. Call the Skybreaker is far from ideal, but at least it gives "recursion".

[jandax]

Well should the second coming of Miracles arrive I think we got the tech to make it out of the X-1-1 bracket [emoji16]

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[frogger42]

Well in the Goblin version you had the option not to go long (early Rabblemaster), in this build you don't have that option, and with just 6 Planeswalkers you will sometimes be forced to go long. Call the Skybreaker is far from ideal, but at least it gives "recursion".

How does Call the Skybreaker beat Jace (fateseal + bounce)? Let alone when they eventually draw a threat. I think adding 3 Gobo Tokens can delay Jace a lot more efficiently than Skybreaker.

[jandax]

How does Call the Skybreaker beat Jace (fateseal + bounce)? Let alone when they eventually draw a threat. I think adding 3 Gobo Tokens can delay Jace a lot more efficiently than Skybreaker.Spyglass the jace

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[fluuu]

spyglass the jace

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whats the current list?

[Jelmerz77]

whats the current list?

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17624&d=309160&f=LE That is still the list

[Captain Hammer]

The 4th Ensnaring Bridge main deck has been a lifesaver for me actually. Far too many creatures running around to not play a full playset of Bridges main deck.

I really do want to play a 3rd Spyglass (the card is amazing) but I think my current list is optimal unless someone can make a compelling argument that something in the main deck is not essential. Should I just go with 61 cards in order to play 3 Spyglass?

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Burning Wish
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Trinisphere
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Boom // Bust
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Shattering Spree
1 Call the Skybreaker


Shattering Spree - Fiery Confluence has the same effect. To make it "uncounterable" through a chalice, you need RRR. And RRRR to smash 3 artis.
Boom/Bust - Stone Rain to hit the basic. Bust looks like a long shot to cast.
Rolling Earthquaje - Confluence also sweeps and domes PW'ers.
Call the Skybreaker - I can't imagine anything short of a miracle allowing you to cast this. I'd think that the goblin version of Icatian Town would be better, and still not good enough. I guess it does pitch to FoW...

Boom/Bust can double as a second Stone Rain when your opponent manages to top deck a second basic onto the board.

Yes, Fiery Confluence is generally as good as Shattering Spree and Rolling Earthquake in many situations. Rolling Earthquakes can hit a high loyalty planeswalker while also acting as a sweeper though, and Spree is uncounterable and I think both these things matter.

In addition, the deck plays 4 Burning Wish, so it's going to be nice to have a solid second Wish target when you get multiple Burning Wishes in the same game. Chandra's Ultimate casting 3 Burning Wishes will also make great use of extra Burning Wish targets in the board.

Regarding Call the Skybreaker a one of, I think being wish up a recurring threat when you're mana flooded is very useful.

Am I wrong?

[jandax]

I haven't tested it extensively. Dunno how the numbers would look in our favor, though. I see the card being good if more than a couple variables line up.

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[SDBobPlissken]

The 4th Ensnaring Bridge main deck has been a lifesaver for me actually. Far too many creatures running around to not play a full playset of Bridges main deck.

I really do want to play a 3rd Spyglass (the card is amazing) but I think my current list is optimal unless someone can make a compelling argument that something in the main deck is not essential. Should I just go with 61 cards in order to play 3 Spyglass?

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Burning Wish
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Side:
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Trinisphere
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Boom // Bust
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Shattering Spree
1 Call the Skybreaker



Boom/Bust can double as a second Stone Rain when your opponent manages to top deck a second basic onto the board.

Yes, Fiery Confluence is generally as good as Shattering Spree and Rolling Earthquake in many situations. Rolling Earthquakes can hit a high loyalty planeswalker while also acting as a sweeper though, and Spree is uncounterable and I think both these things matter.

In addition, the deck plays 4 Burning Wish, so it's going to be nice to have a solid second Wish target when you get multiple Burning Wishes in the same game. Chandra's Ultimate casting 3 Burning Wishes will also make great use of extra Burning Wish targets in the board.

Regarding Call the Skybreaker a one of, I think being wish up a recurring threat when you're mana flooded is very useful.

Am I wrong?

I am pretty much playing the same main deck except I opted for a 12th mountain instead of a 4th chrome mox. I don’t think boom bust is reallly great. Giving up your own land in the early game can squeeze you too much and if it’s the late game I’ve found that casting a boom/busy probably wouldn’t matter. I also decided to play pillage over stone rain for its versatility. I have not had a chance to cast call the sky breaker against control mostly because I’ve been able to seal the game before I would need to. In place of the boom/bust and trinisphere in the board I am playing two null rod which helps against the eldrazi manarock decks as well as shutting down the LEDs against storm. I feel like our big problem is still sneak and show and to be honest that deck isn’t going anywhere any time soon. If you go to big a event you should expect to play it and you are pretty much dead in the water.

[Jelmerz77]

I am pretty much playing the same main deck except I opted for a 12th mountain instead of a 4th chrome mox. I don’t think boom bust is reallly great. Giving up your own land in the early game can squeeze you too much and if it’s the late game I’ve found that casting a boom/busy probably wouldn’t matter. I also decided to play pillage over stone rain for its versatility. I have not had a chance to cast call the sky breaker against control mostly because I’ve been able to seal the game before I would need to. In place of the boom/bust and trinisphere in the board I am playing two null rod which helps against the eldrazi manarock decks as well as shutting down the LEDs against storm. I feel like our big problem is still sneak and show and to be honest that deck isn’t going anywhere any time soon. If you go to big a event you should expect to play it and you are pretty much dead in the water.

How do you mean dead in the water? You have Bridge where you can hide behind, and Trinisphere is Omniscience BFF (Not!) Sorcerous Spyglass on Sneak Attack. Also wishing for a Boiling Seas will have them pretty dead in the water. I would not call us dead in the water. (Not a cakewalk either, since they play basic islands)

[jandax]

I think stompy decks are way more of a dog to SnT decks than prison decks. We lock up as many angles as they attack from. As stated it's no easy match like infect or eldrazi, I feel we have the tools to get there.

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[SDBobPlissken]

How do you mean dead in the water? You have Bridge where you can hide behind, and Trinisphere is Omniscience BFF (Not!) Sorcerous Spyglass on Sneak Attack. Also wishing for a Boiling Seas will have them pretty dead in the water. I would not call us dead in the water. (Not a cakewalk either, since they play basic islands)

All they need to do is cunning wish for hurkyls recall or abrade and there goes whatever lock you had. Couple this with their counter magic, moon effects practically being dead cards, and multiple angles of getting a fatty into play and it is just a terrible match up.

[Jelmerz77]

All they need to do is cunning wish for hurkyls recall or abrade and there goes whatever lock you had. Couple this with their counter magic, moon effects practically being dead cards, and multiple angles of getting a fatty into play and it is just a terrible match up.

To me you are exaggerating a bit. Yes it isn't a great MU. But less then 50% of the S&S lists run Cunning Wish. (To be honest I have never seen it, let alone played against it) On average a S&S deck runs 3 Basic Islands so a quick Moon can still get them.
But maybe if this build runs around in your meta, you could think about dedicating a couple of slots to Confusion in the Ranks I know people played this cards vs S&S.

Jelmer

[SDBobPlissken]

To me you are exaggerating a bit. Yes it isn't a great MU. But less then 50% of the S&S lists run Cunning Wish. (To be honest I have never seen it, let alone played against it) On average a S&S deck runs 3 Basic Islands so a quick Moon can still get them.
But maybe if this build runs around in your meta, you could think about dedicating a couple of slots to Confusion in the Ranks I know people played this cards vs S&S.

Jelmer

Maybe so, but I think it is more that I am facing the same sneak and show deck every week at my lgs. Guy plays an unknown number of abrade main deck and has a full play set after sideboarding. He is not on the wish plan, but I feel like if I have a trinisphere he just show and tells or sneaks a fatty into play. If I have Bridge he show and tells omniscience or griselbrand and finds his answer. Chalice on 1? No problem he just needs to play his 3-4 drops.

How many confusion in the ranks would you play?

[Jelmerz77]

Maybe so, but I think it is more that I am facing the same sneak and show deck every week at my lgs. Guy plays an unknown number of abrade main deck and has a full play set after sideboarding. He is not on the wish plan, but I feel like if I have a trinisphere he just show and tells or sneaks a fatty into play. If I have Bridge he show and tells omniscience or griselbrand and finds his answer. Chalice on 1? No problem he just needs to play his 3-4 drops.

How many confusion in the ranks would you play?

Would play 3 I think. 4 if you want to make a statement. :tongue:

[Captain Hammer]

Shattering Spree - Fiery Confluence has the same effect. To make it "uncounterable" through a chalice, you need RRR. And RRRR to smash 3 artis.
Boom/Bust - Stone Rain to hit the basic. Bust looks like a long shot to cast.
Rolling Earthquaje - Confluence also sweeps and domes PW'ers.
Call the Skybreaker - I can't imagine anything short of a miracle allowing you to cast this. I'd think that the goblin version of Icatian Town would be better, and still not good enough. I guess it does pitch to FoW...

Ok I will cut the Call the Skybreaker for the 3rd Sorcerus Spyglass.

Shattering Spree is solid as an uncounterable or second artifact destroyer, helps wreck affinity and manarock decks. Artifacts are prevalent enough that having a second way to deal with them through counters seems prudent.

Boom//Bust is a second backup land destroyer (some matchups manage to get two basic lands out) that also works with city of traitors and provides an Armageddon effect late game (If you Bust when you have a chandra out, you win the game). It also functions as a low cast land destroyer if you they cast a Dark Depths that you need to blow up that turn.

Rolling Earthquake sweeps and domes planeswalkers better than Confluence

[Mr. Safety]

I played against the Chandra Stompy version yesterday at the local, no burning wishes. He was playing Bottled Cloister, which made my discard obsolete (sad panda.) He was also playing Abrade (sideboard) and Magma Jet (maindeck x4.) Not sure how typical that setup is, but it worked really well for him at killing DRS/Delver and the Cloister gave him extra options each turn. Pairing it with Chandra ToD was really hot.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I played against the Chandra Stompy version yesterday at the local, no burning wishes. He was playing Bottled Cloister, which made my discard obsolete (sad panda.) He was also playing Abrade (sideboard) and Magma Jet (maindeck x4.) Not sure how typical that setup is, but it worked really well for him at killing DRS/Delver and the Cloister gave him extra options each turn. Pairing it with Chandra ToD was really hot.
Dragon Stompy hasn't had an agreed upon 'best 75' since the days of Rakdos Pit Dragon... probably not even back then. The Bottled Cloister list was the topic of discussion just before Burning Wish started picking up speed in this thread. :smile:

Here's a couple of recent lists on TC Decks that use a few copies:

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=25287&iddeck=198505
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=25808&iddeck=202634
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=25742&iddeck=202165

[Zooligan]

Faerie Macabre is a live card whenever you see it. Leylines can ONLY affect the game before it starts.

It is largely personal preference. Many users would advocate for Leylines. I prefer the faeries.

Seems like if you are on the Bridge plan you want Faeries as drawn Leylines will get stuck in your hand, right?

[Curby]

4 Faerie Macabre
1 Trinisphere
1 Stone Rain
1 Pyroclasm
1 Banefire
1 Roast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Boom//Bust
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Shattering Spree
1 Call the Skybreaker

Could flexible answers like Pillage or Aftershock ever deserve a space? While single-use spells like Stone Rain/Roast are easier to cast, if you're running out of slots I think adding utility to a wish target could work. A shame that Chaos Warp is an instant.

[jandax]

That's totally valid if your meta calls for pillage! I like the option but 1RR is rather tough to consistently cast

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[Jelmerz77]

Could flexible answers like Pillage or Aftershock ever deserve a space? While single-use spells like Stone Rain/Roast are easier to cast, if you're running out of slots I think adding utility to a wish target could work. A shame that Chaos Warp is an instant.

Aftershock is a nice find! Forgot about that one.:smile: 3 damage could be an issue obv.

[Zooligan]

New Stompy player here! Put together a multiple Chandra version and got my ass laughably handed to me in a MODO league! :laugh: Lost to some Grixis-TNN thing (i assume Delver but never actually saw any Delvers...), D&T twice, Sneak-n-Show, and Eldrazi Stompy.

I put the list together expecting a much more counter-heavy meta and stuff like burn. Here's the list I ran:

2 Chandra, Pyromaster |
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance |<-- diversified Chandras to hedge against Surgical/Needle/Revoker/Spyglass/etc
1 Chandra, the Firebrand |
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Volcanic Fallout <-- maindecked this expecting a bunch of Delver/permission decks
1 Hazoret the Fervent <-- seemed really good, liked turning extra cards in to damage deuces and keeping hand empty for Bridge
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide |
4 Ancient Tomb |
4 City of Traitors |<-- 28 mana sources and still found myself wanting more. wtf?
3 Chrome Mox |
2 Lotus Petal |
11 Mountain |

SB:
2 Abrade
2 Dragon's Claw <-- thought these might be good against burn and in the mirror. probably better as 2 Kozilek's Return for D&T m/u
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Rolling Earthquake
3 Sorcerous Spyglass <-- seems like every opposing deck has at least a couple juicy targets, almost want 4...

So, aside from obviously needing more drive time with the deck and getting a feel for mulligan/keep decisions, any advice on tuning for the MODO meta? I've tried the Burning Wish package in other decks and not really feeling it, I never seem to be able to utilize it when necessary. I'm wondering about my decision to go for what i felt was an Ensnaring Bridge-friendly version, but Bridge did seem OK in the S&S, Eldrazi, and TNN matchups (for the single games i won in each). Thoughts?

BTW, is Mother of Runes bugged on MODO? In one game she gave Phyrexian Revoker pro-Red and it lasted the rest of the game, not just the rest of the turn. anyone seen that behavior before?

[frogger42]

New Stompy player here! Put together a multiple Chandra version and got my ass laughably handed to me in a MODO league! :laugh: Lost to some Grixis-TNN thing (i assume Delver but never actually saw any Delvers...), D&T twice, Sneak-n-Show, and Eldrazi Stompy.

I put the list together expecting a much more counter-heavy meta and stuff like burn. Here's the list I ran:

2 Chandra, Pyromaster |
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance |<-- diversified Chandras to hedge against Surgical/Needle/Revoker/Spyglass/etc
1 Chandra, the Firebrand |
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Volcanic Fallout <-- maindecked this expecting a bunch of Delver/permission decks
1 Hazoret the Fervent <-- seemed really good, liked turning extra cards in to damage deuces and keeping hand empty for Bridge
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide |
4 Ancient Tomb |
4 City of Traitors |<-- 28 mana sources and still found myself wanting more. wtf?
3 Chrome Mox |
2 Lotus Petal |
11 Mountain |

SB:
2 Abrade
2 Dragon's Claw <-- thought these might be good against burn and in the mirror. probably better as 2 Kozilek's Return for D&T m/u
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Rolling Earthquake
3 Sorcerous Spyglass <-- seems like every opposing deck has at least a couple juicy targets, almost want 4...

So, aside from obviously needing more drive time with the deck and getting a feel for mulligan/keep decisions, any advice on tuning for the MODO meta? I've tried the Burning Wish package in other decks and not really feeling it, I never seem to be able to utilize it when necessary. I'm wondering about my decision to go for what i felt was an Ensnaring Bridge-friendly version, but Bridge did seem OK in the S&S, Eldrazi, and TNN matchups (for the single games i won in each). Thoughts?

BTW, is Mother of Runes bugged on MODO? In one game she gave Phyrexian Revoker pro-Red and it lasted the rest of the game, not just the rest of the turn. anyone seen that behavior before?

I run the creature version of your deck, but let me make a few basic suggestions.

Chandra ToD is too good not to 4x her. She's the best red PW'er. So you may get her needled; big deal. You might even find a Confluence to get her back online. I'd switch a Firebrand for the 4th Torch in a heartbeat.

Some people here swear by Trinisphere. I used to run the card with Crucible/Waste lock, and I can say this: I hate the card - it only really hurts storm combo, and not as much as you think, depending on their hand. It's slow, durdley, and a total POS when you can't wipe lands off the field. Burning Wish is so so so versatile in this build of the deck that I can't impress upon you how useful it is. Look at some of the basic B Wish packages here - Confluence, Boiling Seas, and Pillage should all make it in your SB.

Lotus Petal should be the 4th Chrome Mox. No doubt. You need to cast multiple spells of your Petal to win the game - hence Mox. I feel the 2nd petal should be another Mountain. Some people play the one-of Petal here and swear by it. Truth is - you have no filtering, a Petal is only good in your opening hand... sometimes. And the Mountain is probably what you want T3+. It makes approximately 2% a difference in your deck. Still, I think Mountain is the right call.

*******

You'll notice some miserable hands where you don't have enough Red sources for your Confluences and stuff. The other version of this deck is more Stompy with a tonna creatures. You said 28 mana sources wasn't enough - stompy can run a few more, and there's definitely a way lower curve to the deck. Also, Stompy loves running 4 Magus, not 2-3, which is suboptimal - Magus + Moon is the only reason you're running this Chalice deck over any other colors.

Playstyles are really different - this Stax-ish build sits behind a Bridge. Stompy wants to swing in with Goblin Rabblemaster, and it has a very high threat density - more than 1/3 the deck is serious threats (over here you have really 6 threats). I've tried both, and a T1 Rabblemaster is like running 4 more Moons, it has to be stopped right away (usually with FoW too). But up to you which playstyle you prefer. I'd try both, as Imperial Recruiters are dirt cheap on MODO, and are in the optimal Stompy build. In paper, Recruiter can probably become Burning Wish or just Confluences.
-Frogs

[Zooligan]

How does the Bridge plan interact with the Rabblemasters? Seems sort of like a nonbo. Should Bridges live in the board just for big creature matchups (S&S, Eldrazi)??

[Ace/Homebrew]

How does the Bridge plan interact with the Rabblemasters? Seems sort of like a nonbo. Should Bridges live in the board just for big creature matchups (S&S, Eldrazi)??
Frogger plays the creature-heavy build, but kinda went back and forth (between his build and yours) on giving advice about the deck. Your Ensnaring Bridges stay in the main deck. His are in the sideboard against creatures with power 7 or greater.

I respect a 1-of Lotus Petal because it can be put into play off Chandra ToD's + whereas a Mountain cannot. But he's right; 4 Chrome Mox / 1 Lotus Petal is better than 3 CM / 2 LP.

[frogger42]

How does the Bridge plan interact with the Rabblemasters? Seems sort of like a nonbo. Should Bridges live in the board just for big creature matchups (S&S, Eldrazi)??

Yeah, with creatures, you generally don’t want Bridge. If you’re curious, Rabblemaster can swing through Bridge @ 2. It pumps after the swing. But that usually doesn’t come up. You can run Bridge in the SB with the creature build, but I don’t because nothing in life feels better than swinging a Hazoret with haste, esp into smashing a Liliana of the Veil. I still get shivers doing that. Jace obv can’t deal with the haste, either.

EDIT: With your PW’ers, keep the Bridges MD, definitely.

[Zooligan]

After playing with the 'walker version, I'm not 100% sure it's for me. Seems a little TOO slow. I'm not sure an all-in creature plan is for me either. Thinking a hybrid with 4 C,ToD, 4 Rabbledabble, a couple Hazoret, and the usual Magi and Apes. That would leave room for the Wish package or a grip of long-reach burn/sweepers.

Maybe something like this??
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Burning Wish
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Rolling Earthquake
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
SB:
1 Banefire
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Pillage
1 Pyroclasm
1 Roast
1 Rolling Earthquake
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Sulfur Elemental

Or a non-Wish version something like:
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere <-- seems appropriate to help keep Rabblemaster from getting Plowed/Pushed/Bolted before it blooms, right?
4 Fiery Confluence
2 Rolling Earthquake
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
SB:
2 Ashen Rider <-- SOMETHING to help the abysmal S&S m/u
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Volcanic Fallout
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Sulfur Elemental <-- D&T m/u

[frogger42]

After playing with the 'walker version, I'm not 100% sure it's for me. Seems a little TOO slow. I'm not sure an all-in creature plan is for me either. Thinking a hybrid with 4 C,ToD, 4 Rabbledabble, a couple Hazoret, and the usual Magi and Apes. That would leave room for the Wish package or a grip of long-reach burn/sweepers.

Maybe something like this??
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Burning Wish
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Rolling Earthquake
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
SB:
1 Banefire
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Pillage
1 Pyroclasm
1 Roast
1 Rolling Earthquake
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Sulfur Elemental

Or a non-Wish version something like:
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere <-- seems appropriate to help keep Rabblemaster from getting Plowed/Pushed/Bolted before it blooms, right?
4 Fiery Confluence
2 Rolling Earthquake
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
SB:
2 Ashen Rider <-- SOMETHING to help the abysmal S&S m/u
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Volcanic Fallout
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Sulfur Elemental <-- D&T m/u

I’ll mention a couple things about the Creature and the PW’er build.

The creature build - the more dudes you run, the more Umezawa’s Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice become active and game-swinging. I ran 4 Chandra and 4 Fiery Confluence originally with creatures, but when I got Imperial Recruiters I decided to leverage my equipment harder. What I found using Chandra and Confluence with my Rabble-build was that my gameplan wasn’t always in sync. I might have an equipment floating around without a body, or sometimes Magus and Chandra - which is great! - but you can’t really close a game that way versus most board states. One creature - a Thalia, TNN, or even worse, Batterskull - mucks up your winning hard.
I opted to make Chandra into Recruiter (which is expensive! But can be B Wish...) and Confluence into Zoetic Cavern. My list runs 30 mana-sources, and I never have to mulligan.

The PW’er build has some awkward spots where you’ll want to Confluence to hit a problem creature, and will end up wiping your own Magus off the field. Very awkward, and gets more awkward with 4 Rabbles. But it ostensibly runs more powerful cards - Bridge, Chandra, Wish, Confluence - just the DnT matchup is super rough on you. Note that Sneak and Show is probably easier with your 4 Bridges in the 75. I’ve expressed my preferences for the creature build on here already, but it depends on your meta. If you face a lot of cheated Emrakuls, some Marit Lages, and even Goyfs and Knights of the Reliquary, anything big and fat and cheap (or cheated) Bridge is going to be a brick house there. It runs sweepers to deal with the weenies it can’t handle (again, wiping your own Magus or Rabble). You can fight things like Elves, Infect, DnT and other weenie decks, but if you run creatures + Jitte instead, you can control the board for the rest of the game.

I mention the differences here because you’re pushing into mixing both builds, but not committing one way or another, which cuts you out of some of your most powerful cards. The creature build loves Equipment, but also Thorn of Amethyst, which is much better than Trinisphere - much quicker, and pounds all combo, not just Storm; the PW’er build leverages its board wipes much more effectively, in Confluence, B Wish targets, and even Rolling Earthquake.
You’ll win games just based on the power level of your cards, but when I ran a mixed list, it never felt streamlined or “complete” I guess.

And I’ll also mention not to run uncastable spells in your 75, even for Show and Tell. Ashen Rider should be just Ensnaring Bridge, yo. That switch will give you an option against Knight of the Reliquary decks, too. I’m not a fan of running it just for Marit Lages and stuff like that, but to each his/her own. Stingscourger - if you can’t fight ‘em, bounce ‘em. (Dead // Gone is actually really good, too)

[Zooligan]

Hmm... Interesting points. I'll have to think on this a bit. Don't think I can budget running Recruiter in paper anytime soon. :( In fact, I'm mostly an online player. Finding paper legacy around me is not something that happens regularly. i guess that means you could call "my" meta the MTGO meta.

[SDBobPlissken]

I’ll mention a couple things about the Creature and the PW’er build.

The creature build - the more dudes you run, the more Umezawa’s Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice become active and game-swinging. I ran 4 Chandra and 4 Fiery Confluence originally with creatures, but when I got Imperial Recruiters I decided to leverage my equipment harder. What I found using Chandra and Confluence with my Rabble-build was that my gameplan wasn’t always in sync. I might have an equipment floating around without a body, or sometimes Magus and Chandra - which is great! - but you can’t really close a game that way versus most board states. One creature - a Thalia, TNN, or even worse, Batterskull - mucks up your winning hard.
I opted to make Chandra into Recruiter (which is expensive! But can be B Wish...) and Confluence into Zoetic Cavern. My list runs 30 mana-sources, and I never have to mulligan.

The PW’er build has some awkward spots where you’ll want to Confluence to hit a problem creature, and will end up wiping your own Magus off the field. Very awkward, and gets more awkward with 4 Rabbles. But it ostensibly runs more powerful cards - Bridge, Chandra, Wish, Confluence - just the DnT matchup is super rough on you. Note that Sneak and Show is probably easier with your 4 Bridges in the 75. I’ve expressed my preferences for the creature build on here already, but it depends on your meta. If you face a lot of cheated Emrakuls, some Marit Lages, and even Goyfs and Knights of the Reliquary, anything big and fat and cheap (or cheated) Bridge is going to be a brick house there. It runs sweepers to deal with the weenies it can’t handle (again, wiping your own Magus or Rabble). You can fight things like Elves, Infect, DnT and other weenie decks, but if you run creatures + Jitte instead, you can control the board for the rest of the game.

I mention the differences here because you’re pushing into mixing both builds, but not committing one way or another, which cuts you out of some of your most powerful cards. The creature build loves Equipment, but also Thorn of Amethyst, which is much better than Trinisphere - much quicker, and pounds all combo, not just Storm; the PW’er build leverages its board wipes much more effectively, in Confluence, B Wish targets, and even Rolling Earthquake.
You’ll win games just based on the power level of your cards, but when I ran a mixed list, it never felt streamlined or “complete” I guess.

And I’ll also mention not to run uncastable spells in your 75, even for Show and Tell. Ashen Rider should be just Ensnaring Bridge, yo. That switch will give you an option against Knight of the Reliquary decks, too. I’m not a fan of running it just for Marit Lages and stuff like that, but to each his/her own. Stingscourger - if you can’t fight ‘em, bounce ‘em. (Dead // Gone is actually really good, too)


What does your list look like? I have recruiters that haven’t been touched since I was playing iPainter. It would be nice to sleeve them up again.

[frogger42]

What does your list look like? I have recruiters that haven’t been touched since I was playing iPainter. It would be nice to sleeve them up again.

I put it up somewhere on here, but I pm'd you the list. I have maybe 2-3 slots for Recruiter updated.

[CovenantElite30]

Anyone see the new Blood Sun Spoiler?

2R

When enters the battlefield Draw a card.

All Lands lose all abilities except for mana abilities.



Seems pretty good. Completely turns off fetchlands.

[Zooligan]

Anyone see the new Blood Sun Spoiler?

2R

When enters the battlefield Draw a card.

All Lands lose all abilities except for mana abilities.



Seems pretty good. Completely turns off fetchlands.

For this deck it seems like Blood Sun << Blood Moon tho. Why shut them off non-mana abilities when you can shut them off non-mana abilities and colors besides red??

[frogger42]

For this deck it seems like Blood Sun << Blood Moon tho. Why shut them off non-mana abilities when you can shut them off non-mana abilities and colors besides red??

https://i.imgur.com/de5eMNq.png

Blood Moon >> Blood Sun, yes. But so does Blood Moon >> Magus of the Moon. I think it could be a mini-Moon option, make it 12 Moons. And it cantrips, too. Definitely a possibility here. I'd hate to cut my Imperial Recruiters right now...

EDIT: Shuts off your City of Traitors sac ability...

EDIT 2: There's a buyout of Lotus Vale (but not Scorched Ruins). Thoughts? It's probably too cute to Blood Sun them into play, but let's see what people think.

[CptHaddock]

Blood Moon >> Blood Sun, yes. But so does Blood Moon >> Magus of the Moon. I think it could be a mini-Moon option, make it 12 Moons. And it cantrips, too. Definitely a possibility here. I'd hate to cut my Imperial Recruiters right now...

EDIT: Shuts off your City of Traitors sac ability...

I think that this card is very playable too. People who are comparing this to magus or blood moon are foolish, obviously those types of effects are going to be far and away the best nonbasic hate in the format. This card is just an additional prison piece like 3 ball, but has way more utility than 3 ball atleast imo.

[Zooligan]

But what 4 would you cut to add in sub-par moon effects 9-12?? I mean, if you feel the effect+card is powerful enough to bump other things, go crazy. Maybe it is what the deck wants instead of Bridges or 3-balls. I dunno, I'm the new guy around here.

I'm thinking this card (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Rivals+of+Ixalan/Dire+Fleet+Daredevil#paper) might be OK, esp against decks that play cheap counterspells.

[frogger42]

But what 4 would you cut to add in sub-par moon effects 9-12??

Trinisphere in a heartbeat. Prolly Spyglass to the SB, then. This not only cantrips, but shuts down all fetches, which keeps your opponent off of basics. Kind of the point of a T1 Spyglass, except vs Jace.

EDIT: I don't think it's good enough to jam Lotus Vale in the MD, right?

EDIT 2: The Snapcaster Red guy ain't good enough. All the things that run into Chalice will keep running into Chalice.

[CptHaddock]

But what 4 would you cut to add in sub-par moon effects 9-12??

Fam


I think that this card is very playable too. People who are comparing this to magus or blood moon are foolish, obviously those types of effects are going to be far and away the best nonbasic hate in the format. This card is just an additional prison piece like 3 ball, but has way more utility than 3 ball atleast imo.

[Zooligan]

Trinisphere in a heartbeat.
Haven't you already cut Bridges and T-spheres from your Recruiter version??


Prolly Spyglass to the SB, then. This not only cantrips, but shuts down all fetches, which keeps your opponent off of basics. Kind of the point of a T1 Spyglass, except vs Jace.
Spyglass seems pretty good vs. Vial, Sneak Attack, random walkers, etc also. Plus the info.


EDIT 2: The Snapcaster Red guy ain't good enough. All the things that run into Chalice will keep running into Chalice. ^^^ That is a really good point! TY.

[frogger42]

^^^ That is a really good point! TY.

Haven't you already cut Bridges and T-spheres from your Recruiter version??

Yup! Not sure what to cut for this Moon-ish thing, but I'm pretty sure I still run it. Recruiter is probably the weakest card in there, because it's the slowest... but I still need to zap good ole SoFI when it hits the table. We'll see what can go. Prolly not Hazoret.

[jandax]

I will be trying this card out for sure out of the board, probably swapping for spyglass or Magus

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[Karhumies]

Trinisphere in a heartbeat.

I disagree. Blood Sun makes Trinisphere effect non-symmetrical. Sun + Trinisphere is a backbreaking lock versus fetchlands. Opponents are unable to tap fetchlands for red under Sun to pay for Trinisphere; while our Sol lands still provide double colorless mana under Sun.

[Zooligan]

I'm still not sure if keeping opponents off fetches is better than keeping them off of a color on their naturally-drawn duals. Obviously both would be nice, but there's only so much room in a deck.

[Vicar in a tutu]

What do you guys think about cutting Magus of the Moon and playing Blood Sun instead? Doesn't Magus die quite often to removal, including Lightning Bolt, Punishing Fire and - in the case of Lands, although this is very fringe - Mana Vortex?

[Zooligan]

Doesn't Magus die quite often to removal, including Lightning Bolt, Punishing Fire and - in the case of Lands, although this is very fringe - Mana Vortex?

It does, but it is also a body that sometimes attacks, sometime blocks, and if it draws a bolt that's three you didn't take to the face.

[NormalGuy]

I actually really like Blood Sun because of it's interaction with City of Traitors. I seems like it could make a T1 city much less awkward. Getting mana-screwed by your own early moons is a real thing with this deck in my experience.

[Karhumies]

What do you guys think about cutting Magus of the Moon and playing Blood Sun instead? Doesn't Magus die quite often to removal, including Lightning Bolt, Punishing Fire and - in the case of Lands, although this is very fringe - Mana Vortex?

Prison Stompy build with MD Ensnaring Bridges didn't really want Magus all that much in the first place. Blood Sun + Moon allows a creatureless MD build to blank opposing creature removal.

t1 Sol land into Blood Sun makes our Sol land produce 2 instead of R on turn 2, which allows more mana intensive turn 2 follow up plays.

Sun also draws a card. Which is relevant. Especially in Big Red deck which goes into topdeck mode super early. IMO big red just got lifted up a tier just by replacing irrelevant filler cards (or even Blood Moons!) with Suns.

Blood Sun allows even splashing using duals, fastlands and petals. I made a thread about this into New & Developmental, titled "Ajani Sun". Too bad it's super difficult to find anything actually worth splashing though (as in super fun stuff for FLGS tournament, but not worth exposing yourself to Price of Progress in a competitive environment with burn variants expected). Ajani Vengeant is kind of meh, and Nahiri would benefit from having a really big guy in the deck which is more of a Big Red splashes white for Ajani thing.

[Zooligan]

Would 4 moon effects + 4 sun effects be better than 8 moon effects (considering 4 are stapled on to relatively fragile bodies)? Maybe 4 moon/2-3 magus/3-4 sun is right...

[Kobra_D]

Something I always wanted to try was to mash the 2 big stompy decks together, Eldrazi and Moon. However, they tend to be to be out of phase with each other since blood moon slows down Eldrazi considerably.

I am very green with the archetype, but this does seem like fun and something worth considering with Blood Sun helping.

//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Sin Prodder
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Goblin rabblemaster
3 Reality Smasher
1 Hazoret the Fervent

//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the void
3 Blood moon
4 Blood Sun

//Sorceries
2 Fiery Confluence

//Lands
6 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Wastes
2 Ash Barrens

[NormalGuy]

Something I always wanted to try was to mash the 2 big stompy decks together, Eldrazi and Moon. However, they tend to be to be out of phase with each other since blood moon slows down Eldrazi considerably.

I am very green with the archetype, but this does seem like fun and something worth considering with Blood Sun helping.

//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Sin Prodder
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Goblin rabblemaster
3 Reality Smasher
1 Hazoret the Fervent

//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the void
3 Blood moon
4 Blood Sun

//Sorceries
2 Fiery Confluence

//Lands
6 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Wastes
2 Ash Barrens


One major issue is that with blood moon out you will not be able to cast your eldrazi until you find your 1 Wastes, as you will have no way of generating colorless mana.

[frogger42]

Something I always wanted to try was to mash the 2 big stompy decks together, Eldrazi and Moon. However, they tend to be to be out of phase with each other since blood moon slows down Eldrazi considerably.

I am very green with the archetype, but this does seem like fun and something worth considering with Blood Sun helping.

//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Sin Prodder
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Goblin rabblemaster
3 Reality Smasher
1 Hazoret the Fervent

//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the void
3 Blood moon
4 Blood Sun

//Sorceries
2 Fiery Confluence

//Lands
6 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Wastes
2 Ash Barrens


It’s not enough mana sources. 8 of your 28 are pitch sources. The Bridge build tends to run at least 24 permanent sources, with 4 Chrome Mox. I think Blood Moon and Thought-Knot Seer are too anti-synergistic to run together.

[rlesko]

I actually really like Blood Sun because of it's interaction with City of Traitors. I seems like it could make a T1 city much less awkward. Getting mana-screwed by your own early moons is a real thing with this deck in my experience.

For real. In addition to not sac'ing your City to your own lands, savvy opponents cannot wasteland you either!

[Kobra_D]

It’s not enough mana sources. 8 of your 28 are pitch sources. The Bridge build tends to run at least 24 permanent sources, with 4 Chrome Mox. I think Blood Moon and Thought-Knot Seer are too anti-synergistic to run together.

Blood moon and eldrazi are a bit of a nombo themselves, I agree, but that is mostly what I am trying to mitigate with the ash barrens.

I thought about chrome mox but only a third of the deck can pitch to it which also seemed low.

All in all Blood Sun is probably not enough to push this deck forward but it seems like fun to keep on the back burner.

[Karhumies]

Prison Stompy brew (going for a close to creatureless build to blank opposing md removal. so no Magus):

// Core lock pieces (18)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Sun
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge

//Core sorceries (4)
4 Fiery Confluence

// Core planeswalkers (4)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

// Mana acceleration (8)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

// Flex slots (6)
2 Rolling Earthquake
2 Bottled Cloister
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Null Brooch

//Lands (20)
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain


Aggro Stompy brew (going for 4 Sun - 1 Moon because duplicate Moons are redundant):

// Core lock pieces (9)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Sun
1 Blood Moon

//Core creatures (16)
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin rabblemaster

//Core artifacts (4)
4 Chrome Mox

//Core sorceries (4)
4 Fiery Confluence

// Core planeswalkers (4)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

// Flex slots (4)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Smuggler's Copter
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Trinisphere

//Lands (19)
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
11 Mountain

I would put 4x Blood Sun into both builds for different reasons. Prison build thinks Magus can be killed. Aggro build thinks duplicate Blood Moons is bad and Moon can not attack the opponent.

[NormalGuy]

What do you guys think of Rekindling Phoenix?

[Jelmerz77]

What do you guys think of Rekindling Phoenix?

First thought is "Cute" and the double red isn't great. But recurring can be pretty nice.
Maybe someone can test it in the creature build.

[Ace/Homebrew]

First thought is "Cute" and the double red isn't great. But recurring can be pretty nice.
Maybe someone can test it in the creature build.
Yeah, it doesn't appear better than Thunderbreak Regent. The phoenix 'dies' to bolt. And Regent at least does some damage if it gets plow'd. Needed haste to be Legacy relevant (IMO).

[Zooligan]

What do you guys think of Rekindling Phoenix?

It's got cool art!

[Karhumies]

What do you guys think of Rekindling Phoenix?

Thunderbreak Regent has better utility against removal since it triggers also from exiling and bouncing. Also +1 toughness.

Territorial Hellkite has the haste it's missing. Also higher stats AND higher damage per turn ratio even though attacking only every second turn.

Archdemon of Paliano is the benchmark for 2BB 5/4 flying vanilla beater. 2RR 4/3 stats are not even close, and the ability is not worth the drop in stats IMO.

[pinkfrosting]

Due to a change in my work schedule I've had to take a break from paper legacy and MTGO lately, but I'm about to jump back in to prep for GP Seattle. Going to be testing blood sun and other tech. Excited to jam moons again.

[kombatkiwi]

Saying that having less toughness is a big downside seems weird, because any toughness-based removal used on it (or going into combat vs a 3/x) will cause it to come back anyway

It also matches up way better against Baleful Strix than Regent does, blocks any big creature forever (Tarmogoyf, Angler, Marit Lage), you're more happy to trade it in combat (admittedly there arent many creatures in legacy where this specific sizing is relevant, I can only think of TKS and Hooting Mandrills).

I guess that it's worse than Thunderbreak Regent when your opponent uses plow on it. But given that 'worse' only means "you dont' get a free lava spike" is that really such a big deal? Maybe the prevalence of DRS + Bolt limits the strength of this card but there are some serious upsides when compared to the dragon.

Disclaimer: I have no experience playing this deck I just thought the Phoenix looked like a cool/good card, and I know people have used Thunderbreak in the past and this seemed like a significant improvement

[NormalGuy]

It's also got a neat interaction with Feldon of the Third Path where when you copy the phoenix with feldon, then sac that token you get the phoenix 0/1 token, and then get to put the real phoenix card onto the battlefield. That's probably too cute, but seems pretty cool.

[solnox]

Anyone got their most recent Walker List handy?

I'm sort of close to building this deck on mtgo minus the Red Specific Pieces since I bought into Eldrazi Post and wanted more options to play fun and interactive magic

Thanks!

[CovenantElite30]

Anyone try the new blood sun yet?


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[jandax]

Im gonna sunday, at least two MD and if I can a third

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Edit:
Current Moonwalker List:

11 mountain
8 sol land
4 chrome mox
4 ssg
4 chandra tod
2 chandra pyromaster
3 fiery confluence
4 burning wish
4 blood moon
4 cotv
3 trinisphere
3 spyglass
3 bridge
3 blood sun

Side:
4 macabre
1 bridge
1 trinisphere
2 kozileks return
1 roast
1 fiery confluence
1 boiling seas
1 pyroclasm
1 boom bust
1 stone rain
1 banefire

As mentioned, testing out Blood Sun in lieu of Magus at a bi monthly local. I shall share my impressions of the card!

[jandax]

I've come to feel that subbing the Magus for Sun isn't the right direction to go in. That's still cutting a threat, I felt threat light today and when things lined up it went like clockwork. However I still wanted more action and after removing 3 wincons.

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[CovenantElite30]

I've come to feel that subbing the Magus for Sun isn't the right direction to go in. That's still cutting a threat, I felt threat light today and when things lined up it went like clockwork. However I still wanted more action and after removing 3 wincons.

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Remove 4 burning wish and add 4 Sin Proders and call it a day [emoji106]


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[Jelmerz77]

Remove 4 burning wish and add 4 Sin Proders and call it a day [emoji106]


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How about "Nope". Sin Prodder does nothing for the "Walker" List and Burning Wish adds a lot of versatility.

[CovenantElite30]

How about "Nope". Sin Prodder does nothing for the "Walker" List and Burning Wish adds a lot of versatility.

Burning wish is slow and would rather be doing something else with my mama. This is just my opinion. I prefer the more proactive lists.


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[jandax]

Remove 4 burning wish and add 4 Sin Proders and call it a day [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNope.

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[Ace/Homebrew]

would rather be doing something else with my mama. This is just my opinion.
Hahahahah! :tongue:


Two Stompy lists placed at the SCG Classic this weekend.

4th - http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=118419

Creatures (9)
2 Walking Ballista
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Planeswalkers (6)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Lands (19)
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Spells (26)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Lotus Petal
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
1 Abrade
4 Fiery Confluence


Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Abrade
2 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock
2 Volcanic Fallout




13th - http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=118393

Creatures (8)
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Planeswalkers (7)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer

Lands (18)
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Spells (27)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Rolling Earthquake


Sideboard
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Trading Post
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Abrade

[CovenantElite30]

Hahahahah! :tongue:


Two Stompy lists placed at the SCG Classic this weekend.

4th - http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=118419

Creatures (9)
2 Walking Ballista
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Planeswalkers (6)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Lands (19)
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Spells (26)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Lotus Petal
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
1 Abrade
4 Fiery Confluence


Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Abrade
2 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock
2 Volcanic Fallout




13th - http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=118393

Creatures (8)
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Planeswalkers (7)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer

Lands (18)
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Spells (27)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Rolling Earthquake


Sideboard
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Trading Post
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Abrade

Looks like burning wish did well here lol. I like the Walking Ballista going to have to try them out. I’m also surprised to not see any Blood Sun. I’ve been using them online with success.


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[ItsBill]

Hi, I was the pilot of the 4th place list at the SCG Classic this weekend. Will be writing a report soon but feel free to ask any questions. But want to say thanks to everyone that had been posting about this deck on here for the past 6 month or so. This was my first time playing it and I tried to read up on everything y'all had posted about.

[Jelmerz77]

Hi, I was the pilot of the 4th place list at the SCG Classic this weekend. Will be writing a report soon but feel free to ask any questions. But want to say thanks to everyone that had been posting about this deck on here for the past 6 month or so. This was my first time playing it and I tried to read up on everything y'all had posted about.

What was your reasoning for adding the Walking Ballista?
Particular matchups in mind?

Thx

Jelmer

[Ace/Homebrew]

Hi, I was the pilot of the 4th place list at the SCG Classic this weekend. Will be writing a report soon but feel free to ask any questions. But want to say thanks to everyone that had been posting about this deck on here for the past 6 month or so. This was my first time playing it and I tried to read up on everything y'all had posted about.
Congrats! And welcome :laugh:

In hindsight, what do you think of your sideboard choices? Anything you'd change?

[ItsBill]

SCG Classic Dallas/Fort Worth 1-21-18
Players: Close to 70
Rounds: 7

I will include Sideboard suggestions that I think can be good as I may not remember exactly what I did as I was still trying and learning as I went.

Round 1-Grixis Delver
G1- Was a close one that I was able to lock out with blood moon and bridge and chalice. Though my opponent did say he had an out to the single bridge so I assume Kolaghan's Command

Sideboard-+2 Volcanic fall out, 2 Kozilek's return, 2 sudden shock, 2 abrade 1 trinishpere
- 1-3 Magus of the Moon, 1-3 trinisphere(on draw), 1-2 Walking ballista

Thoughts are trinishpere on the play is another card that can be the nuts and protect your lock pieces but not as strong on the draw when they have daze and spell pierce available. Fallouts and sudden shocks just over more board and spot removal that is uncounterable while Kozilek's return is just an extra instant and cheaper board wipe for pyromancer +tockens, delver, and deathrite. The though on barista is normally leave it in as it can be a cheap way to deal with delver or pyro but get the extra board clear and uncounterable removal.

G2- He gets deathrite shaman and keeps me off blood moon and just drains me out of the with out me finding or resolving an answer.

G3- turn 1 trinisphere gets forced, t2 I play chalice for 1 with daze protection and then stick a blood moon, fall out his deathrite and young pyromancer and he concedes.

1-0
Round 2- Death an Taxes

This is a match up I tested most against just because my friend loaning me the deck is a longtime DnT player so I fell good about the match up.

G1- Is scary. I get a blood moon out which protects me from ports and but I get stuck on 4 mana while he has thalia on board and I have too many cards in my hand to make bridge good. Luckily when he stone forged he went for batterskull then recruiters for mirrian crusader and gets me to 4 and then I finally get my 5th mana and confluence for 2 and kill his vial. With the board cleared and now being able to empty my hand we move on to the next game.

Sideboard +2 Kozilek's return, 2 Volcanic Fallout, 2 abrade, 2 sudden shock
- 3 trinisphere, 2 CotV, 3 magus of the moon

After boarding the match up feels great. With all of the artifact hate and 6 mom proof answers (sudden shock, K Return and Walking Ballista) just make sure you have enough mana to not get out tempo by thalia.

G2- I kill everything he plays and stick a blood moon to make sure his Thalia stopped getting bounced by karakas.

2-0
Round 3-Alluren

G1- He get basics backed up by deathrite so we get into a long game battling over chalice trying to lock out 2 and 3(already had a bridge in play) to stop him from comboing and sit behind a bridge for a long time since I couldn't ping him with chandra pyromaster because of leovold. So I have to wait for Fiery confluence to clear his board and finally start killing him then find a Chandra Tourch and close it out quickly.

Sideboard +Trinisphere, 2 Volcanic fallout, 2 Kozilek's Return, 2 Sudden Shock, 2 Abrade
- I don't remember,just remember leaving in bridge which was wrong because he is a combo deck. I know I just wanted answers to his combo felt a lot of my hate pieces would be strong and while trinishpere doesn't stop his combo it does make them have to pay for everything and that gives us all the time along side chalice even when he has abrupt decay.

G2- I end up going for the kill to soon with fiery confluence while I have Fallout in hand and he combos me.

G3- fix my sideboard and take out bridges and I get a blood moon and kill his 2 deathrites, he is then stuck with 1 forest and 6 mountains and he couldn't do anything while I tick up Chandra's and have answers to anything attempt at comboing.

3-0
Round 4-Burn

G1-Win the roll and mull to a turn 1 chalice and get a Chandra he has to kill but I have another that closes the game.

Sideboard +Trinisphere, 2 chaos warp, 2 abrade , 2 koliek's return
-4 blood moon, -1 spyglass, -4 bridges

Just want to have answers to early creatures and and possible needles, Chaos warp was for vortex put revealed an extra purpose.

G2- he has smash for trinisphere along with turn 1 goblin guide and fire blasts me out.

G3- mull into a little bit slow hand but lots of gas. I play mountain go, he goes goblin guide I draw a city of traitor and play my trinisphere. he gets stuck on 2 lands and I stick a chalice on 1. 2 turns go by and I have chaos warp and figure out I can try and put him back on 1 land so I go for it end of turn and he gets a goblin guide. I fiery confluence to clear them and then land a walking ballista that I keep pumping and swinging to kill him before he can come back.

4-0
Round 5-U/W Stoneblade

G1- I play trinisphere followed up by blood moon and he has his only back to basics which hindered me quit a bit due to not drawing enough lands to freely do what I wanted but I am able to get bridge down and finally get my hand low enough to sit at 4 life. I can't draw a Chandra, ToD and so I just sit behind my bridge and keep pining away with chandra, pyromaster and just pray he doesn't have an out to my single bridge. I would of loved to try and kill him with her let but couldn't because of trinisphere making me pay for all of them and the fact I had already seen 3 so end the game with Chandra, Pyromaster having over 25 loyalty. My opponent and I laugh about it.

Sideboard +2 abrade and 2 chaos warp
- doubt really remember, again I just having a number of trinishpere versus the force and counter magic decks as it lets my important pieces resolve easier and I wanted the chaos warp for Jace, the mind sculptor.

G2- I get an early blood moon and them Chandra, ToD along with killing his equipments and he was never really in the game.

5-0
Double ID into top 8

Quarterfinals-Lands

Finally get to play lands which there have been about 5 or so around me all day. Opponent knows what I'm on and isn't happy to make top eight straight into a nightmare match up.

G1 I keep a hand that has bridge and trinisphere. I play mountain pass. He goes double Mox diamond loam thespian stage. I untap and play bridge and opponent just sinks know he was going to have a turn 2 dark depths into a spot he can't really win but we play till i blood moon and draw Chandra, ToD.

Sideboard +2 abrade
-trinisphere

not a lot to do in this match up since we already have such a lopsided match but wanted some more answers to his mana off mox diamond and any needle effects he brings in as well as tireless tracker. one thing I wanted to remind myself of was not to rely on just a magus of the moon with the new interaction of moon effects and lands that could give my opponent an easy 20/20 with 2 lands and a punishing fire.

G2- He mulls to 6 turn one gambles of mox diamond and has 4 cards. I have 25% chance to hit he tutor and I do which was molten vortex. didn't really matter since I have blood moon and spyglass and my opponent scoops them up.

Semifinals-Sneak and Show with Omni and Cunning wish

G1- I have a hand with spyglass and bridge. Turn 1 I spyglass and name sneak attack and just plan to make him show and tell my bridge in. Luckily I'm able to get a Chandra, ToD on board before he can draw a sunning wish and answer my single bridge.

Sideboard +2 abrade, 2 chaos warp
- trinishpere, walking ballista

Don't have much here and want to see if there is anything else that can help out.

G2- I have bridge in hand and able to spy glass him again. get a chandra down and a turn or 2 from chandra ult and winning but he finds wipe away and swings with emrakul.

G3- We both mull to 5 and I have what seems like a great start of spyglass into chalice into chandra and hey draws into show and tell grisel brand and i can't find bridge in time

I loved playing the deck for the event and it did exactly what I hoped it would do for me in the few match ups i wanted to see. Still a lot to learn on how I want to sideboard and what is really needed versus what is overkill.

Walking ballista was included from a lot of testing versus DnT. I also found I didn't like either rabble master or hanweir garrison since I was on the bridge main plan so ballista seems to fit the bill. It was an early option to answer delver who can sometimes kill us to fast before bridge matters, can sit behind bridge and helps a ton versus DnT and their sanctum prelate which if they drop on locks us almost completely out before boarding. This is also why I included 1 abrade main.

I am looking forward to playing more of this and digging more to see if there is any other cards that can help or if it is more about mulligan decisions. Sorry for poor formatting was typing this off an on today while watching my daughter. Can't wait for some feedback and suggestions.

[CovenantElite30]

Great write up. What changes would you make to the deck? Have you tried running 4 Walking Ballistas?


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[ItsBill]

Thanks and not sure yet but I know I want to look into solving any issues with overboarding and trying to better understand the needs for certain match ups.

I haven't tried 4 walking ballista simply because this was the first real event with the deck and I am not hundred percent sure on what the main shell of the deck is to better understand what flex spots I have.

[mr-x]

I got to top 8 at Top Deck's 2k. It was around 40 in attendance.



3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
4 Ensnaring Bridge

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Hazoret the Fervent

4 Blood Moon

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
12 Mountain
1 Crystal Vein

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer

3 Fiery Confluence
2 Rolling Earthquake

SB:
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Abrade
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Volcanic Fallout



Round 1 - Death and Taxes 2-0

Game 1: I lose the die roll. He opens with plains aether vial. I play ancient tomb and 2 SSG's for confluence to get rid of vial and do 4 damage. Turn 2 I land a blood moon and they did not draw a plains the rest of the match.
Game 2: I get out a moon turn one. This game went long, he kept building board presence and I kept wiping the board, I eventually had down 2 blood moons, 3 ensnaring bridge and chalice on 1. I got him down to 7 with Chandra and rolling earthquaked for 7.

Round 2 - U/G 12 Post 2-1

Game 1: I win the die roll and chalice on 1, then next turn chalice on 2, then Chandra.
Game 2: I go for turn 1 moon and he fetches a basic island. I played ensnaring bridge, he built up his board and then played echoing truth to get through.
Game 3: I played a turn 2 or 3 hazoret and conflunce for the win.

Round 3: 4c Pile or Delver? 2-0

Game 1: I lose the die roll and they played underground sea and Thoughtsieze. He takes a chalice and leaves blood moon because I didn't have the mana to turn 1 it out. I draw SSG and play the blood moon. He conceeds.
Game 2: I get thoughtsiezed I forget what he took. I played chalice on 1. I eventually play hazoret and get there with the 5/4 indestructible beats.

These games were quick so I never saw anything but deathrite, thoughtsieze and cantrips. Not sure what they were on.

Round 4: Belcher 1-2

Game 1: I lose the roll. I play chalice for 1 but they played through it.
Game 2: Turn one trinisphere.
Game 3: I play chalice for zero and he plays through it.

Round 5: The Epic Storm 2-1

Game 1: Win the roll. I turn one blood moon but he fetches some basics. I chalice him and won some how, I can't remember.
Game 2: I chalice, then blood moon and chalice gets echoing truthed and they go off.
Game 3: Leyline, chalice on 0 and chalice 1 turn 1. Then trinisphere. He plays ad nauseum and gets down to around 7 life to look for answers out of this. He moved to discard and wasn't able to echoing truth and go off the turn he needed to.

Round 6: Mono Blue Blazing Shoal Infect ID
We draw.

Top 8: I get stomped by the mono blue infect. I got turn 2'd and turn 3'd. I mulled to 5 both games. I don't even think I played a card either of those games.

The deck ran pretty hot until top 8, I'm pretty happy with this version. I got to talk to Acehomebrew at the tournament who was also on moon stompy, pretty cool running into him. Nice foils!

[Ace/Homebrew]

Congrats man! Wish my day was as good as yours. :wink:

Thanks for writing up a report.

[Fallen_Empire]

I got to top 8 at Top Deck's 2k. It was around 40 in attendance.



3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
4 Ensnaring Bridge

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Hazoret the Fervent

4 Blood Moon

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
12 Mountain
1 Crystal Vein

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer

3 Fiery Confluence
2 Rolling Earthquake

SB:
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Abrade
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Volcanic Fallout



Round 1 - Death and Taxes 2-0

Game 1: I lose the die roll. He opens with plains aether vial. I play ancient tomb and 2 SSG's for confluence to get rid of vial and do 4 damage. Turn 2 I land a blood moon and they did not draw a plains the rest of the match.
Game 2: I get out a moon turn one. This game went long, he kept building board presence and I kept wiping the board, I eventually had down 2 blood moons, 3 ensnaring bridge and chalice on 1. I got him down to 7 with Chandra and rolling earthquaked for 7.

Round 2 - U/G 12 Post 2-1

Game 1: I win the die roll and chalice on 1, then next turn chalice on 2, then Chandra.
Game 2: I go for turn 1 moon and he fetches a basic island. I played ensnaring bridge, he built up his board and then played echoing truth to get through.
Game 3: I played a turn 2 or 3 hazoret and conflunce for the win.

Round 3: 4c Pile or Delver? 2-0

Game 1: I lose the die roll and they played underground sea and Thoughtsieze. He takes a chalice and leaves blood moon because I didn't have the mana to turn 1 it out. I draw SSG and play the blood moon. He conceeds.
Game 2: I get thoughtsiezed I forget what he took. I played chalice on 1. I eventually play hazoret and get there with the 5/4 indestructible beats.

These games were quick so I never saw anything but deathrite, thoughtsieze and cantrips. Not sure what they were on.

Round 4: Belcher 1-2

Game 1: I lose the roll. I play chalice for 1 but they played through it.
Game 2: Turn one trinisphere.
Game 3: I play chalice for zero and he plays through it.

Round 5: The Epic Storm 2-1

Game 1: Win the roll. I turn one blood moon but he fetches some basics. I chalice him and won some how, I can't remember.
Game 2: I chalice, then blood moon and chalice gets echoing truthed and they go off.
Game 3: Leyline, chalice on 0 and chalice 1 turn 1. Then trinisphere. He plays ad nauseum and gets down to around 7 life to look for answers out of this. He moved to discard and wasn't able to echoing truth and go off the turn he needed to.

Round 6: Mono Blue Blazing Shoal Infect ID
We draw.

Top 8: I get stomped by the mono blue infect. I got turn 2'd and turn 3'd. I mulled to 5 both games. I don't even think I played a card either of those games.

The deck ran pretty hot until top 8, I'm pretty happy with this version. I got to talk to Acehomebrew at the tournament who was also on moon stompy, pretty cool running into him. Nice foils!


Do you know if the other top 8 deck's got posted anywhere? Mono-blue blazing shoal seems super interesting :D

[mr-x]

Do you know if the other top 8 deck's got posted anywhere? Mono-blue blazing shoal seems super interesting :D

I haven't seen it pop up any where except their facebook page for now. Not sure how to link the facebook post so I'll copy paste here:

CHAMPION: Daniel Miller
Deck:
4x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Predict
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Unexpectedly Absent
1x Council’s Judgement
4x Ponder
2x Portent
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Terminus
1x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
5x Island
1x Mountain
2x Plains
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
1x Volcanic Island
1x Back to Basics
3x Counterbalance
2x Search for Azcanta
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Entreat the Angels
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard
1x Containment Priest
2x Flusterstorm
1x Pithing Needle
2x Monastery Mentor
2x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Vedalken Shackles
1x Wear/Tear
1x From the Ashes

2nd Place – Christian Hazlett
Deck:
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Serra Angel
1x Omezawa’s Jitte
4x Flickerwisp
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Sword of Fire & Ice
1x Batterskull
2x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Palace Jailer
3x Karakas
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
9x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
Sideboard:
1x Orzhov Plantiff
2x Council’s Judgment
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Containment Priest
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Sanctum Prelate
2x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist

3rd/4th Place: Jacky Wang
Deck:
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Swamp
1x Island
4x Ponder
2x Preordain
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Duress
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Infernal Tutor
2x Dark Petition
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Past in Flames
1x Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard:
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Chain of Vapor
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Flusterstorm
2x Xantid Swarm
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Dread of Night

3rd/4th Place: Adam Schorr
Deck:
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
3x Preordain
4x Blighted Agent
4x Progenitus
2x Bringer of the Red Dawn
3x Blazing Shaol
4x Cunning Wish
4x Force of Will
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Pact of Negation
1x Flusterstorm
2x Show and Tell
7x Island
3x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Tolaria West
Sideboard:
4x Pithing Needle
1x Stifle
1x Mizzium Skin
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Ravenous Trap
1x Misdirection
1x Boomerang
1x Pact of Negation
1x Flusterstorm
1x Shadow Rift
1x Blazing Shaol
1x Searing Wind

5th-8th Place: Michael Wyckoff
Deck:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Lotus Petal
3x Trinisphere
2x Hazoret the Fervent
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Blood Moon
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
1x Crystal Vein
12x Mountain
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Koth of the Hammer
3x Fiery Confluence
2x Rolling Earthquake
Sideboard:
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Trinisphere
3x Sulfur Elemental
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Abrade
3x Volcanic Fallout

5th-8th Place: Ralph Betesh
Deck:
2x Truename Nemesis
2x Gurmag Angler
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Young Pyromancer
4x Brainstorm
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
1x Dismember
4x Ponder
1x Forked Bolt
2x Underground Sea
4x Flooded Strand
4x Wasteland
3x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
4x Misty Rainforest
Sideboard:
3x Cabal Therapy
2x Pyroblast
1x Dismember
1x Flusterstorm
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Price of Progress
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Diabolic Edict

5th-8th Place: Mike Noble
Deck:
4x Tinder Wall
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Rite of Flame
4x Burning Wish
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Land Grant
4x Manamorphose
4x Pyretic Ritual
3x Empty the Warrens
4x Chrome Mox
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Goblin Charbelcher
1x Taiga
Sideboard:
1x Goblin War Strike
4x Pyroblast
1x Shattering Spree
4x Xantid Swarm
1x Hull Breach
1x Infernal Tutor
1x Pyroclasm
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Reverent Silence

5th-8th Place: Zach Dooling
Deck:
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Rite of Flame
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
1x Underground Sea
1x Empty the Warrens
4x Brainstorm
4x Burning Wish
3x Duress
1x Ad Nauseam
4x Ponder
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Dark Ritual
3x Chrome Mox
1x Badlands
1x Volcanic Island
1x Swamp
1x Island
Sideboard:
1x By Force
3x Echoing Truth
1x Pyroclasm
1x Massacre
1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Thoughtseize
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Telemin Performance
1x Dark Petition
1x Grapeshot
2x Chain of Vapor

[fluuu]

I haven't seen it pop up any where except their facebook page for now. Not sure how to link the facebook post so I'll copy paste here:

CHAMPION: Daniel Miller
Deck:
4x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Predict
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Unexpectedly Absent
1x Council’s Judgement
4x Ponder
2x Portent
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Terminus
1x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
5x Island
1x Mountain
2x Plains
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
1x Volcanic Island
1x Back to Basics
3x Counterbalance
2x Search for Azcanta
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Entreat the Angels
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard
1x Containment Priest
2x Flusterstorm
1x Pithing Needle
2x Monastery Mentor
2x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Vedalken Shackles
1x Wear/Tear
1x From the Ashes

2nd Place – Christian Hazlett
Deck:
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Serra Angel
1x Omezawa’s Jitte
4x Flickerwisp
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Sword of Fire & Ice
1x Batterskull
2x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Palace Jailer
3x Karakas
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
9x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
Sideboard:
1x Orzhov Plantiff
2x Council’s Judgment
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Containment Priest
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Sanctum Prelate
2x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist

3rd/4th Place: Jacky Wang
Deck:
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Swamp
1x Island
4x Ponder
2x Preordain
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Duress
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Infernal Tutor
2x Dark Petition
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Past in Flames
1x Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard:
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Chain of Vapor
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Flusterstorm
2x Xantid Swarm
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Dread of Night

3rd/4th Place: Adam Schorr
Deck:
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
3x Preordain
4x Blighted Agent
4x Progenitus
2x Bringer of the Red Dawn
3x Blazing Shaol
4x Cunning Wish
4x Force of Will
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Pact of Negation
1x Flusterstorm
2x Show and Tell
7x Island
3x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Tolaria West
Sideboard:
4x Pithing Needle
1x Stifle
1x Mizzium Skin
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Ravenous Trap
1x Misdirection
1x Boomerang
1x Pact of Negation
1x Flusterstorm
1x Shadow Rift
1x Blazing Shaol
1x Searing Wind

5th-8th Place: Michael Wyckoff
Deck:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Lotus Petal
3x Trinisphere
2x Hazoret the Fervent
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Blood Moon
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
1x Crystal Vein
12x Mountain
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Koth of the Hammer
3x Fiery Confluence
2x Rolling Earthquake
Sideboard:
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Trinisphere
3x Sulfur Elemental
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Abrade
3x Volcanic Fallout

5th-8th Place: Ralph Betesh
Deck:
2x Truename Nemesis
2x Gurmag Angler
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Young Pyromancer
4x Brainstorm
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
1x Dismember
4x Ponder
1x Forked Bolt
2x Underground Sea
4x Flooded Strand
4x Wasteland
3x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
4x Misty Rainforest
Sideboard:
3x Cabal Therapy
2x Pyroblast
1x Dismember
1x Flusterstorm
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Price of Progress
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Diabolic Edict

5th-8th Place: Mike Noble
Deck:
4x Tinder Wall
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Rite of Flame
4x Burning Wish
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Land Grant
4x Manamorphose
4x Pyretic Ritual
3x Empty the Warrens
4x Chrome Mox
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Goblin Charbelcher
1x Taiga
Sideboard:
1x Goblin War Strike
4x Pyroblast
1x Shattering Spree
4x Xantid Swarm
1x Hull Breach
1x Infernal Tutor
1x Pyroclasm
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Reverent Silence

5th-8th Place: Zach Dooling
Deck:
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Rite of Flame
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
1x Underground Sea
1x Empty the Warrens
4x Brainstorm
4x Burning Wish
3x Duress
1x Ad Nauseam
4x Ponder
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Dark Ritual
3x Chrome Mox
1x Badlands
1x Volcanic Island
1x Swamp
1x Island
Sideboard:
1x By Force
3x Echoing Truth
1x Pyroclasm
1x Massacre
1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Thoughtseize
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Telemin Performance
1x Dark Petition
1x Grapeshot
2x Chain of Vapor

is anyone still playing the goblin prison deck??
whats the newest list? ty

[TLK]

There was one that 5-0’d on MTGO recently.

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain

1 Boartusk Liege
2 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Goblin Assassin
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Manic Vandal
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Sudden Shock

[fluuu]

There was one that 5-0’d on MTGO recently.

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain

1 Boartusk Liege
2 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Goblin Assassin
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Manic Vandal
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Sudden Shock

Thank you for the list. I dont really understand sb... why goblin assassin?
How Confusion in the Ranks Works?

[TLK]

Pretty sure Confusion in the Ranks is like a red Show & Tell. I’m guessing Goblin Assassin is used vs things like True-Name Nemesis.

[TLK]

That same list won this week’s Legacy Challenge.

[Darklingske]

Confusion in the ranks is SBtech against Sneak Attack and Omniscience. Drop a confusion off the Show & Tell from the opponent and switch the confusion for the attack or omniscience that your opponent just dropped. Or switch your Magus for the freshly entered Emrakul. Now profit :)

[fluuu]

That same list won this week’s Legacy Challenge.

Link?

[TLK]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-02-19

[frogger42]

Confusion in the ranks is SBtech against Sneak Attack and Omniscience. Drop a confusion off the Show & Tell from the opponent and switch the confusion for the attack or omniscience that your opponent just dropped. Or switch your Magus for the freshly entered Emrakul. Now profit :)

This isn't a terribly good option. If they drop Omni, a really skilled player would bounce Confusion, let the two exchange triggers fizzle, and then go off. Only good with a Trinisphere in play (in which case they're not going to Show in Omni).

If you steal Emrakul, in this list, your opponent can take your Rabblemaster. Then Rabble takes a token, and swap token back for Emrakul. Profit (for them).

[DNSolver]

I traded into this deck on MTGO to try it out for a bit. Based my list off the Legacy challenge list from a week ago, but didn't like the look of the sideboard or the Caverns in the main. Here's where I am now:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sulfur Elemental
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Karakas
3 Ensnaring Bridge

Not sure about the sideboard, though. Vs Sneak and Show, the best bet out of these kind of decks is assuming that they won't have Omniscience and trying to beat Show and Tell (the sorcery) when you can. I think that Bridge + Karakas is the best way to deal with that, other than putting Sorcerous Spyglass in (would have side use vs. D+T). Haven't played vs Sneak and Show yet, though. D+T has been the only concerning matchup that I've played against - does Fiery Confluence break that matchup open for us?

Has anyone played the Challenge list? Are the 4 Caverns necessary? What should be in the sideboard?

[korstructure]

Spyglass is excellent and good in many more matchups beyond SNT. I would recommend.

Fiery Confluence is great but it does not break open the D&T Matchup. That matchup is challenging and we can only play 4x Fiery Confluence (we need more like 7 sweeper effects to make it manageable). If you look a few pages back, you'll notice some talk on Sulfur Elemental - a pretty narrow card that's really only effective in the D&T Matchup.

Furthermore, using Fiery Confluence as a sweeper (and any other sweeper, in general) is anti-synergistic with specifically the Goblins build of Stompy. It works better with the Walker Build.

I haven't played this specific list so I won't comment on Caverns or the SB.

In general, I do think it's curious that THIS build had this type of success. The Goblins build is better when a stream of dorks is good (Miracles) and better than a stream of walkers (better against Czech Pile). Any thoughts based on your experience so far?


Not sure about the sideboard, though. Vs Sneak and Show, the best bet out of these kind of decks is assuming that they won't have Omniscience and trying to beat Show and Tell (the sorcery) when you can. I think that Bridge + Karakas is the best way to deal with that, other than putting Sorcerous Spyglass in (would have side use vs. D+T). Haven't played vs Sneak and Show yet, though. D+T has been the only concerning matchup that I've played against - does Fiery Confluence break that matchup open for us?

Has anyone played the Challenge list? Are the 4 Caverns necessary? What should be in the sideboard?

[DNSolver]

Yeah, I'm already playing 3 Sulfur Elemental. Could go to 4 because they have been pretty disgusting, especially in multiples.

Will consider the Sorcerous Spyglasses too.

[fluuu]

Yeah, I'm already playing 3 Sulfur Elemental. Could go to 4 because they have been pretty disgusting, especially in multiples.

Will consider the Sorcerous Spyglasses too.

I am interested in this list too. I wanna give it a try.

[DNSolver]

More traditional red prison stompy got 1st in the challenge yesterday (zturgeon).

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-02-26

[korstructure]

Curious why you're off Turbo Depths now(?) That deck seems quite good right now - lots of great finishes and excellent against the most "meta" decks.

Is there something about Dragon Stompy that feels better now?


Yeah, I'm already playing 3 Sulfur Elemental. Could go to 4 because they have been pretty disgusting, especially in multiples.

Will consider the Sorcerous Spyglasses too.

[DNSolver]

I can play whatever I want on magic online now that I've gone infinite off Depths. I like to have fun, and this deck is fun! <3

The only other time I've ever seen someone have an 80+% win rate is Zac Turgeon, playing red stompy of some sort or other. So why not pick this deck?

I might end up streaming a version of this deck next week.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Congrats Zac!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119282

[ZTurgeon]

Congrats Zac!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119282

Thanks

[korstructure]

Thanks

Any interest in giving a tournament report or anything like that? Would love to know if you'd make changes to your list, especially.

Also, how did the Open go for you?

[ZTurgeon]

Any interest in giving a tournament report or anything like that? Would love to know if you'd make changes to your list, especially.

Also, how did the Open go for you?

There isn't a ton to say. I faced 6 good match-ups and 2 bad ones, and managed to steal one of the bad ones.

R1: Sneak and Show : W
R2: Death & Taxes: L
R3: Eldrazi Stompy: W
R4: Turbo Depths: W
R5: Infect: W
R6: Grixis Delver: W
R7: ANT: W
R8: Eldrazi Stompy: W

T8: Lands: W
T4: Lands: W
Finals: ANT: W

I can go into more detail if needed, but other than against Death and Taxes, it was mostly the same story. Either you bombard them with lock pieces until one sticks and wins the game, or you have an aggressive hand that throws out a ton of damage before they can defend themselves.

As for my individual choices, it's the same list I won the MTGO challenge with last week, except I swapped the 3 graveyard hate cards for 3 Sulfur Elementals. There are just too many BR reanimator decks online to go without graveyard interaction, but in paper I feel that the Elementals are more needed, and also have some matchup versatility, while I literally only bring in my faerie macabres for exactly reanimator.

If anyone wants to know specifics on things, I will be happy to discuss anything. I just have been playing this for so long that I no longer know what is obvious or not anymore.

[arj]

Very much a fan of Scab-Clan Berserker as well. What other matchups than storm and delver do you board them in against?

[ZTurgeon]

Very much a fan of Scab-Clan Berserker as well. What other matchups than storm and delver do you board them in against?

I dont board them in against delver. I go bigger and become the control deck there.

But they come in against almost any combo deck, or deck that doesn't defend well on the ground, like Miracles.

[korstructure]

There isn't a ton to say. I faced 6 good match-ups and 2 bad ones, and managed to steal one of the bad ones.

R1: Sneak and Show : W
R2: Death & Taxes: L
R3: Eldrazi Stompy: W
R4: Turbo Depths: W
R5: Infect: W
R6: Grixis Delver: W
R7: ANT: W
R8: Eldrazi Stompy: W

T8: Lands: W
T4: Lands: W
Finals: ANT: W

I can go into more detail if needed, but other than against Death and Taxes, it was mostly the same story. Either you bombard them with lock pieces until one sticks and wins the game, or you have an aggressive hand that throws out a ton of damage before they can defend themselves.

As for my individual choices, it's the same list I won the MTGO challenge with last week, except I swapped the 3 graveyard hate cards for 3 Sulfur Elementals. There are just too many BR reanimator decks online to go without graveyard interaction, but in paper I feel that the Elementals are more needed, and also have some matchup versatility, while I literally only bring in my faerie macabres for exactly reanimator.

If anyone wants to know specifics on things, I will be happy to discuss anything. I just have been playing this for so long that I no longer know what is obvious or not anymore.

Thanks for the rundown! And congrats again! I checked out your twitter and saw your recap of the Open.

Listened to your podcast episode before continuing with any questions, as well.

Curious about the 2x Hazoret. Would you consider a split with anything else?

Also, curious about your Rabblemaster choice - it seems you have to defend this one a lot. Do you think that the 5-6x Walker version with Rolling Earthquakes is strictly inferior? Less of a chance to win in the expected meta? One thing I do like about Rabblemaster is that it gives Marit Lage decks less opportunities to find Krosan Grip and win. Along with your already solid explanation of reducing combo deck turns. I do think that, looking at recent Top 8's, combo decks may be less represented than usual. I wonder if the non-rabblemaster builds might be better in less-combo type of meta.

Next, in the podcast you talked about your win rate, your %'s. Is that something you could share? Would love to know what your matchup data looks like! Even if it's just your win/loss rates (without matchup data), I'd find that super interesting. DNSolver specifically referred to your win rate as being exceptional at times, yet I can't find that data on my own.

Lastly, could you share how you sb against each of the delvers? I think what to take OUT is the most interesting part, especially. Thanks in advance!

[SDBobPlissken]

What would your sideboarding look like for death and taxes? With your list I would bring in the 2 kozileks return, 2 abrade, 3 sulfur elemental, and 2 spy glass. But what would you cut? I know the chalices definitely. Maybe some number of moons? I don’t like cutting too many moons because wasteland and port can be difficult to get around especially with a Thalia out.

[ZTurgeon]

Thanks for the rundown! And congrats again! I checked out your twitter and saw your recap of the Open.

Listened to your podcast episode before continuing with any questions, as well.

Curious about the 2x Hazoret. Would you consider a split with anything else?

Also, curious about your Rabblemaster choice - it seems you have to defend this one a lot. Do you think that the 5-6x Walker version with Rolling Earthquakes is strictly inferior? Less of a chance to win in the expected meta? One thing I do like about Rabblemaster is that it gives Marit Lage decks less opportunities to find Krosan Grip and win. Along with your already solid explanation of reducing combo deck turns. I do think that, looking at recent Top 8's, combo decks may be less represented than usual. I wonder if the non-rabblemaster builds might be better in less-combo type of meta.

Next, in the podcast you talked about your win rate, your %'s. Is that something you could share? Would love to know what your matchup data looks like! Even if it's just your win/loss rates (without matchup data), I'd find that super interesting. DNSolver specifically referred to your win rate as being exceptional at times, yet I can't find that data on my own.

Lastly, could you share how you sb against each of the delvers? I think what to take OUT is the most interesting part, especially. Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the thought out response.

On Hazoret: As of right now, I wouldn't consider any other split in my configuration. She is just so absurdly strong in some matchups, and does a good job of turning weaknesses into strengths. She converts your extra lockpeices and mana into direct, untargeted damage. She also fills the same rabblemaster role of closing the game quickly when you struggle to get a full lock in place. I used to run 3, but the P&K are similar on power level and provide some other needed options, so I guess 2 Haz, and 1 P&K is my "split" already.

On Rabblemaster: I would not right off the other versions of this deck. I think the sweeper version could be better in some more defined metas. For me, I philosophically design for an open meta. Sure, its weighted in some ways, but I don't like the concept of trying to shark a specific room. As such, I favor questions over answers in game 1. In the sideboarded games, the rabblemasters will often come out because I know what answer to be using. One thing to take note of is that what we see are the high end finishes of a tournament, not the whole room. Right now, Delver is the top dog. As such, less combo decks will find their ways to the top table, as Delver beats up on most combo decks pretty badly. But that doesn't mean that the combo decks weren't in the event. The two main reasons I have stuck with my version are closing speed and higher floor. Basically, if I am wrong with the medium planeswalkers and sweepers version, I am unable to close games as quickly, thus making the lock more important. Additionally, if I am playing the sweepers version, I can be extremely punished by drawing narrow cards like rolling earthquake that have great power, but limited scope. A rabblemaster on the other hand, has less of a chance of being a dead card in my eyes, and in a deck with no selection, that is important to me.

On Win Percentages: Sadly, I don't keep them anymore. I will start again. However, I can tell you that it is pretty high. If I had to eyeball it, I would say somewhere in the 70-80% range. However, the matchups play a large part in this. This deck has the most polarizing matchups I have seen in a "competitive" deck. I have 6 losses to RG Lands in 6 years of playing only this deck, and I have played that matchup a lot. Meanwhile, Death and Taxes and Sneak and Show are like 20% for me. And I don't mean that in a exaggerated way. I would say I roughly win 1 of 5 matches against D&T. Basically, I won the classic because I was able to win one of my worst matchups. I don't want to say it's fate or anything like that, but you are extremely likely to win your good matchups and extremely unlikely to lose your bad ones. That said, if I am looking at the top 25 decks listed on MTGGoldfish, I consider myself the favorite in 20 of them, even in 2 of them, and wildly unfavored in 3 of them. DNSolver said 80% more as a joke at me for the record. We play locally together, and he is just constantly commenting on how he never sees me lose. 80% would be over what I eyeball it at, though I hope to get some real numbers back soon.

On Delver: I board basically the same against most delver decks. They are different decks, but they interact with me on an incredibly similar axis. On the play, I board out 4 rabbles, 1 hazoret and 1 bridge and bring in 2 K-Returns, 2 Quicksmith Rebels and 2 abrades. On the draw I cut 4 rabbles and 2 chrome mox. This is kinda experimental at the moment. My reasoning that that I will never be able to play around daze when I am on the draw, so spending action cards into moxs to get things dazed is going to cost you the game often. So instead I just play a slower game and take advantage of the fact that even at a slower pace, almost every spell is a nightmare for them.

[ZTurgeon]

What would your sideboarding look like for death and taxes? With your list I would bring in the 2 kozileks return, 2 abrade, 3 sulfur elemental, and 2 spy glass. But what would you cut? I know the chalices definitely. Maybe some number of moons? I don’t like cutting too many moons because wasteland and port can be difficult to get around especially with a Thalia out.

I bring in those 9 and also the two Quicksmith Rebels. I cut 4 Rabbles, 2 Trinisphere, 4 Magus, 1 Moon. I leave all the chalices in because my game plan is basically to build a house of cards. Chalice is very meh, but the ability to stop swords to plowshares is very important, as that card is there way of stopping sulfur elementals and quicksmith rebels. The matchup is bad, but you can steal games by soft locking them using some combo of bridge + chandra or chalice + Rebel/Elemental.

[korstructure]

Thanks for the thought out response.

On Hazoret: As of right now, I wouldn't consider any other split in my configuration. She is just so absurdly strong in some matchups, and does a good job of turning weaknesses into strengths. She converts your extra lockpeices and mana into direct, untargeted damage. She also fills the same rabblemaster role of closing the game quickly when you struggle to get a full lock in place. I used to run 3, but the P&K are similar on power level and provide some other needed options, so I guess 2 Haz, and 1 P&K is my "split" already.

On Rabblemaster: I would not right off the other versions of this deck. I think the sweeper version could be better in some more defined metas. For me, I philosophically design for an open meta. Sure, its weighted in some ways, but I don't like the concept of trying to shark a specific room. As such, I favor questions over answers in game 1. In the sideboarded games, the rabblemasters will often come out because I know what answer to be using. One thing to take note of is that what we see are the high end finishes of a tournament, not the whole room. Right now, Delver is the top dog. As such, less combo decks will find their ways to the top table, as Delver beats up on most combo decks pretty badly. But that doesn't mean that the combo decks weren't in the event. The two main reasons I have stuck with my version are closing speed and higher floor. Basically, if I am wrong with the medium planeswalkers and sweepers version, I am unable to close games as quickly, thus making the lock more important. Additionally, if I am playing the sweepers version, I can be extremely punished by drawing narrow cards like rolling earthquake that have great power, but limited scope. A rabblemaster on the other hand, has less of a chance of being a dead card in my eyes, and in a deck with no selection, that is important to me.

On Win Percentages: Sadly, I don't keep them anymore. I will start again. However, I can tell you that it is pretty high. If I had to eyeball it, I would say somewhere in the 70-80% range. However, the matchups play a large part in this. This deck has the most polarizing matchups I have seen in a "competitive" deck. I have 6 losses to RG Lands in 6 years of playing only this deck, and I have played that matchup a lot. Meanwhile, Death and Taxes and Sneak and Show are like 20% for me. And I don't mean that in a exaggerated way. I would say I roughly win 1 of 5 matches against D&T. Basically, I won the classic because I was able to win one of my worst matchups. I don't want to say it's fate or anything like that, but you are extremely likely to win your good matchups and extremely unlikely to lose your bad ones. That said, if I am looking at the top 25 decks listed on MTGGoldfish, I consider myself the favorite in 20 of them, even in 2 of them, and wildly unfavored in 3 of them. DNSolver said 80% more as a joke at me for the record. We play locally together, and he is just constantly commenting on how he never sees me lose. 80% would be over what I eyeball it at, though I hope to get some real numbers back soon.

On Delver: I board basically the same against most delver decks. They are different decks, but they interact with me on an incredibly similar axis. On the play, I board out 4 rabbles, 1 hazoret and 1 bridge and bring in 2 K-Returns, 2 Quicksmith Rebels and 2 abrades. On the draw I cut 4 rabbles and 2 chrome mox. This is kinda experimental at the moment. My reasoning that that I will never be able to play around daze when I am on the draw, so spending action cards into moxs to get things dazed is going to cost you the game often. So instead I just play a slower game and take advantage of the fact that even at a slower pace, almost every spell is a nightmare for them.

Wow, thanks for your responses. That's really helpful! And yeah, I didn't know your history with the deck until recently but I'm glad to get a bit of Stompy history through my research. Was cool to listen to your SCG Moggcatcher deck tech side-by-side with your recent podcast interview.

Much like your opinion on Rabblemaster... I have many questions to ask, haha. Feel free to respond/not respond to any of the following:

I see what you're saying about Rabblemaster, that makes sense. I think it's close. I'm considering this deck for GP Seattle. With that said, though the combo decks DO exist in this metagame, might a prospective Stompy player seek to gain % points in matchups they would likely encounter in later rounds? Those decks being fair counterspell/discard decks. Further, I wonder exactly how much better additional walkers and Rolling Earthquake are than Rabblemaster in those matchups. Hm, more pondering to do here.

Your comparison of this deck to Charbelcher is spot on. The idea that you're an all-in deck that gets to preserve some resources after "going for it" is an amazing comparison. I feel the same way. To that end, I've sometimes thought of using a card like Defense Grid (taking a page out of SnS's manual). Have you ever considered it? It could be our Xantid Swarm. I recognize that this takes away from our Turn 1 plan, but slowing down by a turn may be OK if it means ANY spell resolves. Just starting some conversation to see if it's worth exploring.

Sulfur Elemental - DNT is definitely a tough matchup (though made better by Rolling Earthquake). You also mentioned that Sulfur comes in against Miracles to provide an additional threat. Do you think it still might be too narrow/not impactful enough? I agree that if it's not Sulfur, Faerie Macabre is a good choice in that spot.

Discard - Not having enough experience with this deck, I'm not sure how threatening Hymn and Thoughtseize are. What are your experiences like? I've seen some builds with 8x Leylines and I could see Leyline of Sanctity being an OK choice. Any thoughts here?

One thing that I've started to develop as I've played this deck is a feel for mulligans and sequencing. Watching your streams has been tremendously helpful to see/hear your reasoning behind keeps and mulls and sequencing. Would it be too big of an ask to prioritize how you evaluate hands?

Something like:

The best hand can cast a t1 Moon effect with SSG for daze backup
If not, it can cast a t1 Rabblemaster
If not, it can cast a t2 Chalice, etc

And:

Against an unknown opponent lead with Chalice on 1
If not, then Blood Moon
If not, then Rabblemaster

[James_P]

@Zturgeon congrats first of all! I love the deck and love your 75 but let me ask you about a couple of cards as I am pretty sure you have already considered them.

- Walking Ballista: have you tried it? I think it may improve Delver and DnT matchups while also attacking through a Bridge. Was thinking as a 1 of instead of Pia and Kira or the 2nd Hazoret.

- Sword of Fire and Ice: if the plan is to put pressure and go aggro while setting up our lock (blood moon + chalice, etc) I think this is an extra boost. Draw card + 2 damage is pretty sweet. I think we have enough threats to justify this (a simple Simian with this is pretty dangerous) and also fits well with Pia and Kira flying tokens. Maybe 1 instead of the 4th Bridge as in this aggro version Bridge is sometimes a dead card in hand (maybe 3 is just enough).

- Volcanic Fallout: why Kozilek's Return instead? I see it is easier to cast and can beat Mother of Runs, but against delver decks it should be way worst than Volcanic.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I think I know the answer to questions 2 and 3, but I do not speak for Zac :laugh:

All his non-lock/non-mana pieces need to apply pressure by themselves. SoFaI is a bomb, but does diddly without something there to carry it.

Death & Taxes is a terrible matchup for this deck, meanwhile Delver decks are something this deck preys on. Given that, it makes sense to prioritize a colorless sweeper over an uncounterable one.

[James_P]

I think I know the answer to questions 2 and 3, but I do not speak for Zac :laugh:

All his non-lock/non-mana pieces need to apply pressure by themselves. SoFaI is a bomb, but does diddly without something there to carry it.

Death & Taxes is a terrible matchup for this deck, meanwhile Delver decks are something this deck preys on. Given that, it makes sense to prioritize a colorless sweeper over an uncounterable one.

Many thanks @Ace/Homebrew, it makes perfect sense to me!

[ZTurgeon]

Many thanks @Ace/Homebrew, it makes perfect sense to me!

He's right on questions 2-3.

As for Ballista, I did try it, but it never did much. It's cute and does some cool things, but unfortunately it just gets pushed most of the time. This deck is very good at doing things like stranding pushes and other specific removal, and Ballista plays against that. I could see it as a 1 of, but p&k have been really good and you get enough for your 4 mana upfront that the game normally ends by the time walking ballista would surpass it in damage potential.

[ZTurgeon]

Wow, thanks for your responses. That's really helpful! And yeah, I didn't know your history with the deck until recently but I'm glad to get a bit of Stompy history through my research. Was cool to listen to your SCG Moggcatcher deck tech side-by-side with your recent podcast interview.

Much like your opinion on Rabblemaster... I have many questions to ask, haha. Feel free to respond/not respond to any of the following:

I see what you're saying about Rabblemaster, that makes sense. I think it's close. I'm considering this deck for GP Seattle. With that said, though the combo decks DO exist in this metagame, might a prospective Stompy player seek to gain % points in matchups they would likely encounter in later rounds? Those decks being fair counterspell/discard decks. Further, I wonder exactly how much better additional walkers and Rolling Earthquake are than Rabblemaster in those matchups. Hm, more pondering to do here.

Your comparison of this deck to Charbelcher is spot on. The idea that you're an all-in deck that gets to preserve some resources after "going for it" is an amazing comparison. I feel the same way. To that end, I've sometimes thought of using a card like Defense Grid (taking a page out of SnS's manual). Have you ever considered it? It could be our Xantid Swarm. I recognize that this takes away from our Turn 1 plan, but slowing down by a turn may be OK if it means ANY spell resolves. Just starting some conversation to see if it's worth exploring.

Sulfur Elemental - DNT is definitely a tough matchup (though made better by Rolling Earthquake). You also mentioned that Sulfur comes in against Miracles to provide an additional threat. Do you think it still might be too narrow/not impactful enough? I agree that if it's not Sulfur, Faerie Macabre is a good choice in that spot.

Discard - Not having enough experience with this deck, I'm not sure how threatening Hymn and Thoughtseize are. What are your experiences like? I've seen some builds with 8x Leylines and I could see Leyline of Sanctity being an OK choice. Any thoughts here?

One thing that I've started to develop as I've played this deck is a feel for mulligans and sequencing. Watching your streams has been tremendously helpful to see/hear your reasoning behind keeps and mulls and sequencing. Would it be too big of an ask to prioritize how you evaluate hands?

Something like:

The best hand can cast a t1 Moon effect with SSG for daze backup
If not, it can cast a t1 Rabblemaster
If not, it can cast a t2 Chalice, etc

And:

Against an unknown opponent lead with Chalice on 1
If not, then Blood Moon
If not, then Rabblemaster


Discard normally isn't too bad. Obviously it will pick apart some hands, but you dump your cards so quickly that they have 2-3 turns to make you discard anything, and even then, you can normally peice together some type of lock or overwhelming board presence.

As for a flowchart of turn 1s, in the dark my options are as follows.

Moon with Chalice on 0
Magus with Chalice on 1
Moon
Magus
Chalice on 1
Trinisphere
Rabble

With all of the above, if you can also play Chandra, you should obviously do so. It only takes 5 cards to Chandra on turn 1 + chalice, so it happens more often than you would think.

[pinkfrosting]

Interesting cards for us from the Dominaria leak.

Damping Sphere
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
________

For how powerful the effect is I think it being a slight nonbo with sol lands hardly matters. We already turn them into mountains anyway. Hoses storm, elves, tons of decks. Even slows the tempo plan significantly if deployed early enough. Pyromancer therapy therapy costs 6 mana.
________

Karn, Scion of Urza
4
Legendary Planeswalker — Karn
5
+1: Reveal the top two cards of your library. An opponent chooses one of them. Put that card into your hand and exile the other with a silver counter on it.
−1: Put a card you own with a silver counter on it from exile into your hand.
−2: Create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with "This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control."

[korstructure]

Interesting cards for us from the Dominaria leak.

Damping Sphere
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
________

For how powerful the effect is I think it being a slight nonbo with sol lands hardly matters. We already turn them into mountains anyway. Hoses storm, elves, tons of decks. Even slows the tempo plan significantly if deployed early enough. Pyromancer therapy therapy costs 6 mana.
________

Karn, Scion of Urza
4
Legendary Planeswalker — Karn
5
+1: Reveal the top two cards of your library. An opponent chooses one of them. Put that card into your hand and exile the other with a silver counter on it.
−1: Put a card you own with a silver counter on it from exile into your hand.
−2: Create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with "This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control."

Damping Sphere: I think that our Elves and Storm matchups are already quite good. What we really need is some SNS and DNT hate. Being marginally good against Delver decks or other cantrip decks seems only... OK. I could be wrong about that last point.

Karn: What a sweet card. Unfortunately, I think Chandra, Pyromaster might be better. For the same CMC as Chandra, Torch, we only get some situational card advantage. The "win con" mode is a nonbo with Ensnaring Bridge, unfortunately. Though it might be OK if we need a 3/3 or 4/4 blocker?

Here is a more significant shift for this deck though...

Planeswalker Targeting Rule: This change makes it so that neither Fiery Confluence NOR Rolling Thunder can kill a planeswalker. Resolved Jaces, Lilianas, and opposing Chandras are now much harder to kill - we have to attack them or Spyglass them. I've never really tracked how often I do this, but it seems bad for us.

In light of this change, one potential card for us is a bonfire-type card:
Jaya's Immolating Inferno
XRR
Legendary Sorcery
(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)
Jaya's Immolating Inferno deals X damage to each of up to three targets.

This would require us to resolve and maintain a Chandra in play, and that might make this card strictly "win more" as a result.

Thoughts on how significant this change is for us?