[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[ZTurgeon]

I really like the MD and I am running something quite similar. Think I have a +1 Hazoret +1 Confluence -1 Chandra -1 Magus. But I can see running your main as well.

I do have some comments / questions about the SB and boarding and wondering what your choices were regarding.
I see you have no GY hate in the SB. Is your SB plan vs UR/UB Reanimator and Dredge good enough with just 4 Scab-Clan Berserker and the maindeck Bridges? Or you just try to dodge them or roll over and die? (which can be a valid option if they are close to non existent in your meta).

I found that I would literally only bring in GY hate against Reanimator and Dredge, and none of the other decks that use the graveyard. So I decided it wasn't worth it. BR reanimator is mostly coin flip based, with it slightly in Stompys favor, but realistically a 50/50. Dredge is bad, but not unwinnable. Also, Dredge is just too rare to devote cards to.



Also vs Eldrazi:



Since they run Chalice of the Void themselves my first thought is to board these out over the 4
Goblin Rabblemaster. What is your reasoning to board out the Rabblemaster and keep the Chalices?

Otherwise the boarding is solid (with given SB obv) :smile:

The rabblemasters just dont do anything. They hurl 1/1s into their bigger blockers and at best, trade with there middling creatures. However, in postboard games, chalice on 2 is pretty powerful, locking out their Ratchet Bombs, Spyglasses, Revokers, Jittes, and Mimics, which are most of the cards they can cast through a moon. Once you have the Moon/Bridge/Chalice on 2 lock going, you just need to worry about a ballista finishing the job.

[ThermalLeech]

I could use a little bit of sideboarding help for my 2 local Metas

there is a TON of death and taxes and a ton of delver decks and stoneblade decks and I don't quite know what should be in my board.

on any given night I will need to play against Death and Taxes and at least 2 blue decks with Jace and because of this I haven't been winning very much lately. Mostly wondering what i should play or try to get around this.

[Wynk]

I could use a little bit of sideboarding help for my 2 local Metas

there is a TON of death and taxes and a ton of delver decks and stoneblade decks and I don't quite know what should be in my board.

on any given night I will need to play against Death and Taxes and at least 2 blue decks with Jace and because of this I haven't been winning very much lately. Mostly wondering what i should play or try to get around this.

I personally like Shard Pheonix as repeatable pyroclasm that can't be Sworded or Terminuted, but results may vary. Good luck!

[ZEROorDIE]

I could use a little bit of sideboarding help for my 2 local Metas

there is a TON of death and taxes and a ton of delver decks and stoneblade decks and I don't quite know what should be in my board.

on any given night I will need to play against Death and Taxes and at least 2 blue decks with Jace and because of this I haven't been winning very much lately. Mostly wondering what i should play or try to get around this.

Abrade
Sulfur elemental
Sorcerous spyglass
Kozileks return

Should all help against d&t

Scab clan berserker for blue control decks seems to be common right now

[ThermalLeech]

Abrade
Sulfur elemental
Sorcerous spyglass
Kozileks return

Should all help against d&t

Scab clan berserker for blue control decks seems to be common right now

I currently play all of these. Lately I just have been getting stuck on mana and end up having to run plays into daze every turn or risk falling too far behind

[Jelmerz77]

I currently play all of these. Lately I just have been getting stuck on mana and end up having to run plays into daze every turn or risk falling too far behind

Yes you do, you say a large part of your meta is D&T however you only run 2 Sulfur Elemental. If you look at ZTurgeon's Sideboard he runs 4. For a good reason because D&T has trouble dealing with it. If you run like you say 2 times a night into D&T you might want to go up to 3 or 4 (I would run 4)

Below his SB for reference.

Sideboard:
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Kozilek's Return

[Saboo]

Took my dragon shell to locals (the list below) and faced off against ANT, DNT, UR Delver, Classic RUG, WU miracles.

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Stormbreath Dragon

2 Sarkhan, Fireblood
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

3 Fiery Confluence

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Great Furnace
7 Mountain

SB
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Pyroblast
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Chaos Warp
3 Leyline of the Void

Lost to ANT bigly.

2-0 vs RUG

2-1 vs UW miracles

2-1 vs UR Delver

2-0 vs DNT

I got the Furnace idea from this thread. Seemed like a good idea with Karn's ability to generate a token that buffs from artifacts.

[ThermalLeech]

Hey guys how well do you think walking ballista would do for us main deck against death and taxes and other annoying things. Especially as another threat that kills under bridge?

[Jelmerz77]

Hey guys how well do you think walking ballista would do for us main deck against death and taxes and other annoying things. Especially as another threat that kills under bridge?

I tried it about a year ago pretty much for the same reasons you want to.
I found it way too clunky and too slow.
I also wouldn't know what to cut from the main for a walking ballista if I would want to run 1 or 2.

[ThermalLeech]

I tried it about a year ago pretty much for the same reasons you want to.
I found it way too clunky and too slow.
I also wouldn't know what to cut from the main for a walking ballista if I would want to run 1 or 2.

Damn, lately I've just been having such a hard time main deck dealing with everything. So I'm trying to find weird cards to fix problems. I even had considered trading post

[Valleysdai]

Hey guys how well do you think walking ballista would do for us main deck against death and taxes and other annoying things. Especially as another threat that kills under bridge?

I currently run 3 in my main deck and they are absolute lifesavers, I tried 4 but it was clunky. 3 seem to be just right.

At a GP I had to use it against BR reanimator to shoot Iona naming red.

[megaflippo]

I currently run 3 in my main deck and they are absolute lifesavers, I tried 4 but it was clunky. 3 seem to be just right.

At a GP I had to use it against BR reanimator to shoot Iona naming red.

Hi Valleysdai:

could U let me know how your '75' looks like?

Thx,

megaflippo

[Valleysdai]

Hi Valleysdai:

could U let me know how your '75' looks like?

Thx,

megaflippo

Certainly, I've recently lent the deck out so am probably forgetting a couple of cards

My current Dragon stompy list:

Main

4 Chandra ToD

4 blood moon

4 ensnaring bridge
4 chalice of the void
2 chrome mox
3 trinisphere

4 fiery confluence

2 pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 magus if the moon
3 walking Ballista
4 simian spirit guide

13 snow-covered mountain
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
2 gemstone caverns

Side
2 grafdiggers cage
2 pyroblast
1 cursed totem
1 spellskite
2 sorcerous spyglass
2 torpor orb
2 abrade
1 kozilek's return
1 damping matrix
1 boil

[megaflippo]

Certainly, I've recently lent the deck out so am probably forgetting a couple of cards

My current Dragon stompy list:

Main

4 Chandra ToD

4 blood moon

4 ensnaring bridge
4 chalice of the void
2 chrome mox
3 trinisphere

4 fiery confluence

2 pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 magus if the moon
3 walking Ballista
4 simian spirit guide

13 snow-covered mountain
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
2 gemstone caverns

Side
2 grafdiggers cage
2 pyroblast
1 cursed totem
1 spellskite
2 sorcerous spyglass
2 torpor orb
2 abrade
1 kozilek's return
1 damping matrix
1 boil

Hi Valleysdai,
thx for the list: can U tell me when to use 'cursed totem' from the SB?
Against what MU is it good?
Thx, megaflippo

[Darklingske]

can U tell me when to use 'cursed totem' from the SB?
Against what MU is it good?

Against all decks with lots of creature abilities, but certainly against Elves and Maverick.

[ItsBill]

Been awhile since I posted. Last time I played the deck was when I got top 4 at SCG Classic in Dallas and planning on going to the team open as the Legacy player.

Main
4-Blood moon
4-Magus of the Moon
4- Chalice of the void
4-Ensnaring Bridge
2-Trinisphere
3-Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1-Chandra, Pryomaster
2-Karn, Scion of Urza
2-Ghiraour Aether Grid
1- Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1-Walking Ballista
3-Fiery Confluence
2-Abrade
4-Chrome Mox
4-Simian Spirit Guide
11-Mountain
4-Ancient Tomb
4-City of Traitors

Sideboard
3-Tormod's Crypt
2-Volcanic Fallout
2-Kozilek's Return
2-Spine of Ish Sah
2-Sorcerous Spyglass
2-Choas Warp
1-Ratchet Bomb
1-Pia and Kiran Nalaar

I haven't really liked the rabble master lists as I feel there is a big difference between stompy and prison.

The biggest card I am wanting to try out is the Spine of Ish Sah to try and help the sideboard games of Sneak and show as an extra show and tell target plus can be boarded in for any of the really grind match ups and has the possible upside of being reused with Pia and Kiran Nalaar.

[ParisFlorian]

Nobody playing Blood Sun over Magus ? The latter is so easy to kill for many decks (Grixis Control, 4c loam...)
Plus, Blood Sun cantrips and let you take 2 mana out of your Sol lands. And it combines well with Fiery Confluence.

[Jelmerz77]

Nobody playing Blood Sun over Magus ? The latter is so easy to kill for many decks (Grixis Control, 4c loam...)
Plus, Blood Sun cantrips and let you take 2 mana out of your Sol lands. And it combines well with Fiery Confluence.

Yes you are right about almost all points. I found that you need a certain creature density if you want a creature to survive. I would play it if I could work out a completely creatureless build that would, either contain another "Hard" Lock piece over Trinisphere, so that I would have more time to kill with 1 or 2 Planeswalkers (Chandra or Karn) or another non creature kill-condition that would kill faster then the previously mentioned Planeswalkers.

Eldrazi Stompy however is on the rise. Magus kills them, Blood Sun does nothing vs them.

[Valleysdai]

Hi Valleysdai,
thx for the list: can U tell me when to use 'cursed totem' from the SB?
Against what MU is it good?
Thx, megaflippo

As well as the aforementioned elves and maverick it is extremely useful against decks like DnT, that utilise SFM. It can also replace dead cards against griselbrand decks. Mud gets hit by it too.

[Water_Wizard]

Been awhile since I posted. Last time I played the deck was when I got top 4 at SCG Classic in Dallas and planning on going to the team open as the Legacy player.

Main
4-Blood moon
4-Magus of the Moon
4- Chalice of the void
4-Ensnaring Bridge
2-Trinisphere
3-Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1-Chandra, Pryomaster
2-Karn, Scion of Urza
2-Ghiraour Aether Grid
1- Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1-Walking Ballista
3-Fiery Confluence
2-Abrade
4-Chrome Mox
4-Simian Spirit Guide
11-Mountain
4-Ancient Tomb
4-City of Traitors

Sideboard
3-Tormod's Crypt
2-Volcanic Fallout
2-Kozilek's Return
2-Spine of Ish Sah
2-Sorcerous Spyglass
2-Choas Warp
1-Ratchet Bomb
1-Pia and Kiran Nalaar

I haven't really liked the rabble master lists as I feel there is a big difference between stompy and prison.

The biggest card I am wanting to try out is the Spine of Ish Sah to try and help the sideboard games of Sneak and show as an extra show and tell target plus can be boarded in for any of the really grind match ups and has the possible upside of being reused with Pia and Kiran Nalaar.

Run Great Furnace with Aether Grid. It even counts as an artifact under moon effects. Confusion in the Ranks is also good versus Sneak and Show. It trades upon entry with a Show and Tell'd Sneak Attack or Omniscience and will force a creature trade when you cast one (they Show and Tell a fatty, you drop Confusion in the Ranks and next turn cast a creature to swap). I also would not play Abrade main because you can blow up artifacts with Fiery Confluence and there are better cards to run rather than those two.

[megaflippo]

Run Great Furnace with Aether Grid. It even counts as an artifact under moon effects. Confusion in the Ranks is also good versus Sneak and Show. It trades upon entry with a Show and Tell'd Sneak Attack or Omniscience and will force a creature trade when you cast one (they Show and Tell a fatty, you drop Confusion in the Ranks and next turn cast a creature to swap). I also would not play Abrade main because you can blow up artifacts with Fiery Confluence and there are better cards to run rather than those two.

Just as a general question: I never really liked Chandra Pyromaster... Ok draws U a card for '0' ability and pings your opponents, but the ultimatum is not that good neither (not sure U hit your FConfluence) .

I would just always put a Karn Scion of Urza in her place...

Any opinions why Chandra P is still good?

Any advice is most welcome!

[ParisFlorian]

Just as a general question: I never really liked Chandra Pyromaster... Ok draws U a card for '0' ability and pings your opponents, but the ultimatum is not that good neither (not sure U hit your FConfluence) .

I would just always put a Karn Scion of Urza in her place...

Any opinions why Chandra P is still good?

Any advice is most welcome!

I tried her (the nice Comic Con version :)) in a PW build, along with Karn and the other Chandra (and Blood Sun in place of Magus).
I have to say I am not a big fan. Chandra TOD is clearly better, and so is Karn. But I keep her as a 1-of, since I cant play 5 Chandra ToD, and I do not want a 3rd Karn (to keep my red cards count high enough for the Moxen).

[megaflippo]

I tried her (the nice Comic Con version :)) in a PW build, along with Karn and the other Chandra (and Blood Sun in place of Magus).
I have to say I am not a big fan. Chandra TOD is clearly better, and so is Karn. But I keep her as a 1-of, since I cant play 5 Chandra ToD, and I do not want a 3rd Karn (to keep my red cards count high enough for the Moxen).

The one reason I would consider playing her is pithing needle / sorcerous spyglass effect from the opponent: they always play it on Karn or Chandra TOD... so U still have 'an out'...

[bruizar]

Koth of the Hammer seems so much better as a second red planeswalker than Chandra Pyromancer. Even Sarkhan Dragonspeaker pulls more weight imo.

[megaflippo]

Koth of the Hammer seems so much better as a second red planeswalker than Chandra Pyromancer. Even Sarkhan Dragonspeaker pulls more weight imo.

@bruizar : I agree...

[Ace/Homebrew]

Well... this deck has returned to general obsurity post banning.

http://mythicspoiler.com/grn/cards/legionwarboss1.jpg

Thoughts? Not as strong as Rabblemaster, but creature type of goblin means there is some synergy.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Looks like interest here has really dried up. Hopefully this doesn't become a thread where I just babble to myself...

Ended up getting 3rd in the Duel for Duals at TopDeck Games in Haddon, NJ.
Was only a 32 person event, but I got a Tropical Island for my troubles. Only lost to 1 player and ended up 11-5 in games for the day.

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Goblin Chainwhirler
3 Stingscourger
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Abrade
2 Trinisphere
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Forcefield
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance


Round 1, Leon - UW Stoneblade 2-0
He wins the die roll, but I take the game. Game 2, I mull to 5 but still steal the win. Goblin Trashmaster was the MVP, and Moggcatcher made sure I could find him.

Round 2, PirateKing - Deadguy Ale 2-0
He wins the die roll but mulls to 6. I believe he stumbles on land, and I'm able to take advantage. Game 2 starts poorly as I have to aggressively use Ancient Tomb. But Moggcatcher lets me find back to back Goblin Chainwhirlers to destroy his Bitterblossom faeries and his follow up Lingering Souls that threatened to finish me off.

Round 3, Dylan - Dredge 2-0
I mull to 5 and him to 6. He leads with land, LED. I stick Chalice@1. He pops the LED and has dredgers and bridges but can't find any dudes. I snag a win. Game 2 he mulls to 5 and plays Careful Study into Faithless Looting. I remove his dredger and Looting with a Faerie and stick a Chalice@1. He can't recover.

So at this point I am undefeated for the day and feeling pretty untouchable. I have the opportunity to draw into Top 8 but I push my luck to get top seed.

Round 4, Matt - UB Death's Shadow 1-2
Matt offers to draw and I decline. I win the die roll and play Magus of the Moon. Matt thinks for a bit... He cycles Street Wraith, then another. Then he scoops up his cards. Game 2 I mull to 5 and him to 6. He counters anything relevant from me and wins pretty easily. Game 3 I look at an awful 7 and confidently put my cards on the table. "Would you still like to draw?" I ask. He knows better and punishes me for my greed.

Round 5, Robert - Enchantress, 2-0
I win the die roll and play Chalice@1. He and I battle it out for 30 minutes. The game kept wavering between me keeping him locked under Trinisphere and him bursting through it. Moggcatcher gives me inevitability though. Game 2 I play Moggcatcher turn 1 and confirm my intention to destroy every land he plays moving forward. He scoops.

Got there! I'm #2 going into the top 8. My Round 4 opponent is the top seed.

Quarter-finals, Tyler - Death & Taxes, 2-1
He mulls to 6 and I start. Goblin Chainwhirler blows out his board of X-1s and I get the first game. I keep a no-lander for game 2(!!) It has 2 Chrome Mox and the option to play Rabblemaster or Chainwhirler on my opening play. He decides it is Chainwhirler by playing a Mother of Runes. I eventually get a 3rd Chrome Mox on the board, but never see a single land before he kills me. Game 3 is a grind-fest which eventually has us both hellbent with a cluttered board. He finds a Recruiter of the Guard which makes 'being the Monarch' important. I steal the title and sandbag a Chainwhirler only to draw a 2nd at the end of turn. My hand is Chrome Mox, Chainwhirler, Chainwhirler and I have 5 Mountain in play. He commits his hand to the board and passes the turn. I draw a red card (Abrade), imprint it and double Chainwhirler him out of the game.

Semi-finals, Matt - UB Death's Shadow, 0-2
Ugh... this again. He ponders. I play Blood Moon. He Dazes. I show a Simian Spirit Guide. He casts Force of Will. I can't recover. Game 2 I mull to 3. It took all day, but my deck finally shit all over me. At least it got me to the semi-finals.


The list is a lot of fun. It was the same thing I took to SCG Philly where I was paired against Burn 3 times and the Bridge-Walker mirror once. I didn't see a single red deck this tournament and almost took it down.
I enjoyed talking anime with PirateKing and Dylan. TopDeck Games is a great store and my thanks to them for continuing to put on events. Though it was pretty disappointing to see the condition of the duals up as prizes... My HP Trop was the one in best condition.

[Saboo]

Looks like interest here has really dried up. Hopefully this doesn't become a thread where I just babble to myself...

Ended up getting 3rd in the Duel for Duals at TopDeck Games in Haddon, NJ.
Was only a 32 person event, but I got a Tropical Island for my troubles. Only lost to 1 player and ended up 11-5 in games for the day.

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Goblin Chainwhirler
3 Stingscourger
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Abrade
2 Trinisphere
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Forcefield
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance


Round 1, Leon - UW Stoneblade 2-0
He wins the die roll, but I take the game. Game 2, I mull to 5 but still steal the win. Goblin Trashmaster was the MVP, and Moggcatcher made sure I could find him.

Round 2, PirateKing - Deadguy Ale 2-0
He wins the die roll but mulls to 6. I believe he stumbles on land, and I'm able to take advantage. Game 2 starts poorly as I have to aggressively use Ancient Tomb. But Moggcatcher lets me find back to back Goblin Chainwhirlers to destroy his Bitterblossom faeries and his follow up Lingering Souls that threatened to finish me off.

Round 3, Dylan - Dredge 2-0
I mull to 5 and him to 6. He leads with land, LED. I stick Chalice@1. He pops the LED and has dredgers and bridges but can't find any dudes. I snag a win. Game 2 he mulls to 5 and plays Careful Study into Faithless Looting. I remove his dredger and Looting with a Faerie and stick a Chalice@1. He can't recover.

So at this point I am undefeated for the day and feeling pretty untouchable. I have the opportunity to draw into Top 8 but I push my luck to get top seed.

Round 4, Matt - UB Death's Shadow 1-2
Matt offers to draw and I decline. I win the die roll and play Magus of the Moon. Matt thinks for a bit... He cycles Street Wraith, then another. Then he scoops up his cards. Game 2 I mull to 5 and him to 6. He counters anything relevant from me and wins pretty easily. Game 3 I look at an awful 7 and confidently put my cards on the table. "Would you still like to draw?" I ask. He knows better and punishes me for my greed.

Round 5, Robert - Enchantress, 2-0
I win the die roll and play Chalice@1. He and I battle it out for 30 minutes. The game kept wavering between me keeping him locked under Trinisphere and him bursting through it. Moggcatcher gives me inevitability though. Game 2 I play Moggcatcher turn 1 and confirm my intention to destroy every land he plays moving forward. He scoops.

Got there! I'm #2 going into the top 8. My Round 4 opponent is the top seed.

Quarter-finals, Tyler - Death & Taxes, 2-1
He mulls to 6 and I start. Goblin Chainwhirler blows out his board of X-1s and I get the first game. I keep a no-lander for game 2(!!) It has 2 Chrome Mox and the option to play Rabblemaster or Chainwhirler on my opening play. He decides it is Chainwhirler by playing a Mother of Runes. I eventually get a 3rd Chrome Mox on the board, but never see a single land before he kills me. Game 3 is a grind-fest which eventually has us both hellbent with a cluttered board. He finds a Recruiter of the Guard which makes 'being the Monarch' important. I steal the title and sandbag a Chainwhirler only to draw a 2nd at the end of turn. My hand is Chrome Mox, Chainwhirler, Chainwhirler and I have 5 Mountain in play. He commits his hand to the board and passes the turn. I draw a red card (Abrade), imprint it and double Chainwhirler him out of the game.

Semi-finals, Matt - UB Death's Shadow, 0-2
Ugh... this again. He ponders. I play Blood Moon. He Dazes. I show a Simian Spirit Guide. He casts Force of Will. I can't recover. Game 2 I mull to 3. It took all day, but my deck finally shit all over me. At least it got me to the semi-finals.


The list is a lot of fun. It was the same thing I took to SCG Philly where I was paired against Burn 3 times and the Bridge-Walker mirror once. I didn't see a single red deck this tournament and almost took it down.
I enjoyed talking anime with PirateKing and Dylan. TopDeck Games is a great store and my thanks to them for continuing to put on events. Though it was pretty disappointing to see the condition of the duals up as prizes... My HP Trop was the one in best condition.

Nice work vs DNT. Can I get a rundown of your semi-mirror against the Bridge Walker deck?

In Modern Sarkhan's been doing work with dragons. This is my legacy port of the deck:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Mountain

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
2 Fiery Confluence

4 Sarkhan, Fireblood

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Glorybringer

Sideboard: 15
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Pyroblast
4 Abrade
2 Fiery Confluence

In Modern Sarkhan tends to be run with a good many of your 5-cost dragons to take advantage of the +2 mana off Sarkhan's ability. That's my logic and rational here.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Sure:

The loss against the mirror (Chandra/Karn/Bridge version) was brutal. I won the die roll and lead with City -> Chalice@1. That lost me game one because I couldn't catch up on mana since City kills itself... Game 2 I resolved 3ball turn 1 and my opponent couldn't catch up. Game 3 was heartbreaking because I had just stabilized at 6 life with a Trashmaster and Moggcatcher on the board with a 3ball out. My opponent had an empty board, with 3 lands and a Chrome Mox with 1 card in hand. I entered my end step and had to decide if I was going to worry about Fiery Confluence or not. I decided to fade Confluence and make a Siege Gang end of their turn for a lethal swing (cause Trashman lords) my next turn. I'm immediately punished when my opponent untaps and plays Confluence... What I should have done was EoT search up Settler, nuke a land, then sac the Settler to Trashman to destroy the mox, locking them under 3 ball. :rolleyes: Oh well.
I think the addition of Chainwhirler to the Moggcatcher list makes that matchup even. After sideboarding, it might even be favorable.

Good to hear Sarkhan is doing work in Modern! I think it is inevitable that he could do work in Legacy, but I it'll require another bomby 4-drop dragon or two...

[GAMEster52]

question to the moggcatcher people. why is nobody running goblin king as one-off? i think it works very well with our moon effects ... is there any reasoning?

[Ace/Homebrew]

question to the moggcatcher people. why is nobody running goblin king as one-off? i think it works very well with our moon effects ... is there any reasoning?
He was lackluster in my testing... He requires a pretty favorable board position to do anything (because he reads 'other goblins'). And the decks that are weak to Blood Moon don't typically require something to punch through damage.

But give him a try and let me know if you find different!

[megaflippo]

SPOILER ALERT = RISK FACTOR

I think we have a new card to test : definitely think this card draw can be amazing...

Also Jump Start... Looks like Combustible gear hulk without the creature.
I am excited: we need Karn now for card draw, this card might change this.
Also is an instant and not sorcery, three mana cost is easy with our mana base!

http://mythicspoiler.com/grn/cards/riskfactor.html

[Eldariel]

SPOILER ALERT = RISK FACTOR

I think we have a new card to test : definitely think this card draw can be amazing...

Also Jump Start... Looks like Combustible gear hulk without the creature.
I am excited: we need Karn now for card draw, this card might change this.
Also is an instant and not sorcery, three mana cost is easy with our mana base!

http://mythicspoiler.com/grn/cards/riskfactor.html

These types of cards have a history of being weak at best. Browbeat saw some play in Burn but even there, it was always questionable. Fact is, we aren't pressuring enemy life total enough: they will be able to afford to take 4-8 a significant amount of the time which turns this from a card advantage engine to a weak threat that they don't need to answer. Thus...I'm sceptical.

[Alfy]

After a series of heartbreakers in the Legacy Leagues on MTGO convinced me I am not currently good enough to win with the delver decks (I've been trying to get back in Legacy after a long drought), and with the amount of discard in the meta making my other favorite, Omni-Tell, unplayable, I decided to give this deck a whirl. I chose Mengucci' list, which I felt was well balanced between prison and aggro: https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/moon-stompy-legacy-channel-mengucci-2/. The only change I made was to replace one Abrade by another Trinisphere, as Miracle is rather prevalent on MTGO, and I'm still not sure about the remaining Abrade.

I met one Miracle, 2 UB Deathshadow, and 2 Storm/ANT. Not exactly a varied gauntlet, but the results were excellent: I went 4-1, losing a heartbreaker to Storm. In the last game, they had ANT'ed down to 2 life and passed the turn. I had Fiery Confluence and a Mox in hand, but no other red card and only one red on the field. Any red card or mountain would have clinched the win, and a Chalice or a Trinisphere might have done the trick too, but it was not to be.

Still, I was delighted with how the deck performed. Versus Deathshadow, the deck is just a beating. Turn 1 Blood Moon on the play has lead to insta-concede on two occasions. Beyond that, the threat of Blood Moon, Chalice, Trinisphere, conjugated to the fact they lower they life and then have to face Fiery Confluence or Chandra is a beating. Rabblemaster is formidable weapon against them, as they can't afford this type of clock. With the deck being so pervasive online due to its cheap cost, Red Prison is well placed to abuse their strategies.

Miracle felt a lot closer, and while I went 2-0, I can't help but feel I was lucky. Strangely, an early Blood Moon still hurts them a lot: they might play a lot of basics, but they still fetch for them, and it's a mana-hungry deck. I'm not sure if it's worth leaving 8 Blood Moon-type of effects in, but I did keep my opponent off Jace in our second game. Scab-Clan Beserker did an amazing job off the sideboard: it felt like a soft-lock, darn if you do, darn if you don't. But again, I won both games on the back of Rabblemaster, and I don't see myself playing without it. I just don't feel this is a deck that can be played for too long a stretch without putting down a threat, the locks are not that strong, especially against Miracles.

I'm really looking forward playing this deck more. I guess I will regret the choice when I'll meet Sneak and Tell and Reanimator, but it has a nice balance of putting extremely strong cards on the table turn 1 and 2, while still not feeling like it's just a gimmick. You still need to know your opponent's outs, you're still figuring out the best lines of play. All in all, it's a pleasure to play, and I'm really surprised it hasn't been picked up more.

Edit: after taking a few Swords of Fire and Ice in my face, I'm not questioning the need for 2 Abrades anymore...

[ZTurgeon]

question to the moggcatcher people. why is nobody running goblin king as one-off? i think it works very well with our moon effects ... is there any reasoning?

If you have a moon out, and if you have a moggcatcher out to search for him, you have already won the game. It provides almost nothing. If you need to push through 1 blocker, get stingscourger. If you need to push through many blockers, just set up seige gang and kiki and go over and around them.

[Alfy]

Well, I did manage to go 5-0 once in a league, although it felt in great part due to the strength of the deck, as I’m still making a lot of mistakes. Still, it felt great after a few 2-3’s. I would have some questions if someone with more experience can tell me:

- If you have the choice between a turn 1 Chalice on 1 and Blood Moon, what’s the correct choice when blind on the play in the first game? Blood Moon seems stronger overall, but when it does nothing, I often regret having slowed down my own mana...

- Do you leave Blood Moon in against Miracles? It still feels strong when played early, but it’s a horrible draw afterwards, I’m really not sure if it’s worth it.

- My matchup against Reanimator feels horrible. Blood Moon does very little, Ensnaring Bridge is fodder to a Tidespout and Wear and Tear, Iona is a better prison piece than any of mine, and I usually only win when my opponent makes a mistake (like going down to 6 or else with Griselbrand and taking a Confluence to the face). I have 5 SB cards against them (4 Faerie Macabre and a Surgical), but that’s just standard hate. Any advice would be welcome...

[Darklingske]

- If you have the choice between a turn 1 Chalice on 1 and Blood Moon, what’s the correct choice when blind on the play in the first game? Blood Moon seems stronger overall, but when it does nothing, I often regret having slowed down my own mana...
I go for the Chalice on 1, especially on the play and in the blind. Reason behind this: moon T1 has indeed bitten me in the ass more often and slowing ourself down is not so great (as you already stated).

- Do you leave Blood Moon in against Miracles? It still feels strong when played early, but it’s a horrible draw afterwards, I’m really not sure if it’s worth it.
I leave 1 moon in and side the rest out for Spyglasses and/or PW's. The new lists of Miracles play so many basics that it is more negative for us then for them. So extra kills and a faster way to deploy the threats and lock pieces are better (My 5 cents)

- My matchup against Reanimator feels horrible. Blood Moon does very little, Ensnaring Bridge is fodder to a Tidespout and Wear and Tear, Iona is a better prison piece than any of mine, and I usually only win when my opponent makes a mistake (like going down to 6 or else with Griselbrand and taking a Confluence to the face). I have 5 SB cards against them (4 Faerie Macabre and a Surgical), but that’s just standard hate. Any advice would be welcome...

Just accept it is a horrible MU (especially the UB lists) and move along. You can't win 'em all all the time.

[Alfy]

Ok, thanks for the answer! Good to know I’m not completely off, although I wished that was not true for Reanimator... :wink:

[Miscanthus]

Just accept it is a horrible MU (especially the UB lists) and move along. You can't win 'em all all the time.

Just curious, as someone new to this deck, what are our best and worst matchups these days?

[Alfy]

Just curious, as someone new to this deck, what are our best and worst matchups these days?

As far as I'm concerned, the new crop of UB Delver is the best matchup right now: they play no or few basics, tons of one drops for Chalice, have few ways to remove prison cards, and they hurt themselves "naturally" and so fall prey to easy Fiery Confluence victories. The rest of the Delver decks are also very good matchups, despite the main deck Kholaghan Commands main deck in the Grixis version.

I assume Lands and Turbo Depth are also very good matchups, although strangely enough, I haven't met a single one since I picked the deck up.

On the other extreme of the spectrum, I would put those combo decks that are not hampered by Blood Moon effects: Reanimator, Omnitell, and some versions of Storm. Obviously Ensnaring Bridge is really good against Reanimator and Omnitell, but even if you draw it, it only lasts so long, and I have found it difficult to kill them fast enough at times even with good top-decks on my side. The reason Reanimator is the worst is that they have a "natural" out in the form of Tidespout Tyran, a card that both fits they're main plan and destroys ours. Basically, you hope you get a chance to exile it or that they never see it nor an Entomb.

I'll let more experienced players confirm or infirm.

[Miscanthus]

As far as I'm concerned, the new crop of UB Delver is the best matchup right now: they play no or few basics, tons of one drops for Chalice, have few ways to remove prison cards, and they hurt themselves "naturally" and so fall prey to easy Fiery Confluence victories. The rest of the Delver decks are also very good matchups, despite the main deck Kholaghan Commands main deck in the Grixis version.

I assume Lands and Turbo Depth are also very good matchups, although strangely enough, I haven't met a single one since I picked the deck up.

On the other extreme of the spectrum, I would put those combo decks that are not hampered by Blood Moon effects: Reanimator, Omnitell, and some versions of Storm. Obviously Ensnaring Bridge is really good against Reanimator and Omnitell, but even if you draw it, it only lasts so long, and I have found it difficult to kill them fast enough at times even with good top-decks on my side. The reason Reanimator is the worst is that they have a "natural" out in the form of Tidespout Tyran, a card that both fits they're main plan and destroys ours. Basically, you hope you get a chance to exile it or that they never see it nor an Entomb.

I'll let more experienced players confirm or infirm.

Thanks for the response.
Curious about the storm assessment though. From my own experiences as a storm player, and from others I've spoken with, this deck is generally considered a tough matchup for storm. Have your experiences been different?

[Alfy]

Matchups against storm decks that don’t mind Blood Moon, like the newer crops of mono red Bonus Round storm decks, are going to come down to just a few pieces, namely Chalice and Trinisphere, and Scab Clan Berserker out of the side board. In my case, I only run 2 Trinispheres, so it’s really up to Chalice to slow them down.

I actually had a few such matchups, and it’s really an issue of speed: even with one Chalice down, I usually don’t kill them fast enough, they find an Abrade and it’s game over. It’s especially true when I have to mulligan to get that Chalice. If I do manage to get 2 pieces of hate down, then I usually end up winning.

I found it much easier to stop the more common crop of Grixis Storm decks. Chalice is still a key piece, especially on 0, but Blood Moon still makes it more difficult for them to use their blue cards when comboing off. Also, there are cases where they can’t finish their combo in one turn after an ANT and pass the turn thinking they will finish you off next turn, but came in range of a Fiery Confluence.

[redtwister]

Anyone excited about the Legion Warboss? Is a second set of Goblin Rabblemaster worth having in order to up aggression? Or do we really just want that second angle of attack from Pia and Haz?

Lands
11 x Mountain
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x City of Traitors

Creatures
4 x Goblin Rabblemaster
2 x Legion Warboss
4 x Simian Spirit Guide
4 x Magus of the Moon

Spells
4 x Chrome Mox
4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 x Blood Moon
4 x Fiery Confluence
4 x Ensnaring Bridge
3 x Trinisphere

Sideboard
3 x Scab-Clan Berserker
2 x Kozilek’s Return
2 x Sulfur Elemental
2 x Sorcerous Spyglass
2 x Abrade
2 x Surgical Extraction
2 x Tormod's Crypt

[LeoCop 90]

Legion warboss is certainly a fine card, and now that the deck is soft to planeswalkers (thanks wizards for nerfing hazoret, chandra and fiery confluence), having a more aggressive stance might be good. A couple years ago i was playing with 4 rabblemaster and 4 hanweir garrison, and warboss is probably an upgrade to garrison (unless you're playing against punisging fire that then completely wrecks you).

[mr-x]

I want to play a more aggressive build and move the bridges to the board. I'm thinking for the agressive creatures: 4 rabble, 4 Leigon warboss, 2 hazoret. What would be another good agressive 3 cmc ?

[megaflippo]

I want to play a more aggressive build and move the bridges to the board. I'm thinking for the agressive creatures: 4 rabble, 4 Leigon warboss, 2 hazoret. What would be another good agressive 3 cmc ?

Another good 3cmc agressor is 'Captain Lannery Storm' = gets your mana up to play a spell more easily next turn, also haste and the treasure tokens work well with Karn tokens = makes them bigger.

U can even consider splashing another color thanks to the 'mana of any color'.
U can even threaten to make himself bigger with the +1/0 effect and take down a bigger creature...
When I play it: often gets rid of a Jace TMS or Liliana on the other side of the board.

[Asthereal]

I want to play a more aggressive build and move the bridges to the board. I'm thinking for the agressive creatures: 4 rabble, 4 Leigon warboss, 2 hazoret. What would be another good agressive 3 cmc ?
Other options:
- Rampaging Ferocidon
- Sin Prodder
- Stromkirk Occultist
- Sulfur Elemental (more of a sideboard option)
- Taurean Mauler (used to be played in this deck, but probably not good enough anymore)
- Gathan Raiders (same problem)
- Satyr Nyx-Smith (probably too cute)
- Pia Nalaar (not sure about this one, seems a tad slow)

[arj]

First some context. I've piloted moon prison to two top 8s before the DRS restriction so now I'm naturally a little sad that it is not so well positioned in the current meta anymore. I've been thinking of Legion Warboss in a goblin list. Something like:

//Lands+Mana Sources
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide

//Creatures
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Goblin Thrashmaster
4 Legion Warboss
4 Moggcatcher
1 Stingscourger
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Chainwhirler

//Planeswalker
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

//Other
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

The list is totally untested, any ideas or suggestions?

[Ace/Homebrew]

The list is totally untested, any ideas or suggestions?
My two immediate reactions are:


Moon Stompy without Magus??

You are a bit light on mana sources, specifically fast mana.

I'd find room for the 4th Chrome Mox. The Chandras probably belong in the sideboard for control matchups.
I personally also no longer like Cavern of Souls in Blood Moon lists, since the rules change.

[arj]

My two immediate reactions are:


Moon Stompy without Magus??

You are a bit light on mana sources, specifically fast mana.

I'd find room for the 4th Chrome Mox. The Chandras probably belong in the sideboard for control matchups.
I personally also no longer like Cavern of Souls in Blood Moon lists, since the rules change.

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah, I'll probably make room for the last Chrome Mox. I checked my older control lists of they have 1 more mana source at 27.

Magus is really lackluster atm. The top 2 decks at the last turney was Miracles and DnT.

I have contemplating trying out lightning greaves. It has always positively suprised me when I added it to other lists and it seems really good with moggcatcher.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I think Greaves might be a trap...

Moggcatcher costs :4: plus :3: to activate. So assuming Greaves is already on the table, you'd need 7 mana to play and activate Moggcatcher.
Jitte is the better equipment based on the creature density and ability to control a game.

In defense of Magus...
Against Miracles, it shuts off fetchlands which makes their cantrips worse.
Against D&T, assuming 8 Moon effects, I'd actually recommend upping your # of maindeck Chainwhirlers. That card wrecks D&T. I'm currently playing 4. (2 Cratermaker)

[Ace/Homebrew]

I got 3rd again at a local event with Moggcatcher.
The big prize was a bye to Eternal Weekend, and that drew 13 hopefuls to what ended up being an 0.7K... :rolleyes:

From memory, the meta was:
4 Miracles
2 Grixis Control
2 B/R Reanimator
1 Pox
1 Moggcatcher
1 Grixis Pyromancer
1 BUG Nic Fit
1 Shortcake (Painter)

My list:

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
2 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Stingscourger
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Abrade
2 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance


Round 1, B/R Reanimator 2-0
I win the die roll but mull to 6. He reveals Chancellor of the Annex. I play City of Traitors, Chrome Mox, Chalice of the Void @ 1. He plays a land and passes the turn. I follow up with a Magus and it attacks until I find a real threat.
Game 2 he mulls to 6 and reveals Chancellor. He unmasks himself to pitch Chancellor and I discard Faerie Macabre when he goes to Reanimate it. Rabblemaster closes the game quickly.

Round 2, Grixis Control 2-0
He wins the die roll and we both mulligan, but he has to do it twice. Pretty sure I get Chalice @ 1 and Magus out turns 1 and 2. He isn't able to put up much of a fight. Game 2 we both keep 7. He gets basic Swamp and Island into play but I get Chalice @ 1 and Blood Moon. He cantrips with Baleful Strix and gets in 2 attacks before I land Moggcatcher. Moggcatcher finds Chainwhirler, then Settler, then Kiki. He draws Kolaghan's Command the turn after I destroy his Swamp.

Round 3, Shortcake 0-2
I win the die roll and he mulls to 5! Life cannot get better. He's able to combo with 6 life left.
Game 2 we both mull to 6. He gets enough to deal with the lock pieces I throw out, and Smuggler's Copter does work in the air while digging him into gas. He wins by crewing two Copters while I'm at 5 life.

Round 4, Miracles 2-1
He wins the die roll and has Plows or Forces for whatever I try to assemble. I scoop at 18 life after he's run me out of cards while maintaining a decent hand for himself.
Game 2 we both mull to 6. I get Chandra, Torch of Defiance but he answers her with Council's Judgment. Fortunately I have a backup Chandra, which ultimates the turn after he Entreats. I show him two Chrome Moxes and we move on to game 3.
Chandra comes to the rescue again game 3. I don't have it written down, but I think he mulligans and cannot recover from our initial card disparity.

Round 5, BUG Nic Fit 2-1
He wins the die roll but mulls to 5. I show him a Moggcatcher (which runs away with the game), but he doesn't see any lock pieces. Game 2 I lose after taking 8 damage to Ancient Tomb. He reveals he doesn't have a clue what I'm up to by naming Goblin Lackey with Cabal Therapy. Game 3 begins and remains in my control.

Cut to top 4.
1st - Shortcake
2nd - Moggcatcher
3rd - U/R Delver
4th - Grixis Control

I reject the group consensus to split prizes and immediately lose to a terrible matchup.

Semi-Finals, U/R Delver 0-2
I win the die roll and reject my initial 7 of Mountain and 6 cards. My 6 doesn't have a land. Neither does my 5. My 4 has an Ancient Tomb and Simian Spirit Guide. Unsurprisingly I lose.
Game two I only have to mull to 6 and he keeps a 1 land hand! Unfortunately his 1 land hand included a threat, 2 Force of Wills and 2 blue cards. He drew into Abrades to negate any of my attempts to put up a fight.

Painter beats Grixis in their game and the finals get split.
I get $100 in credit and use it on shit for EDH.


After the event, I think I'd return Chainwhirler to 3 (from 4) and up Cratermaker to 3 (from 2).

[HouseOfCards]

I got 3rd again at a local event with Moggcatcher.
The big prize was a bye to Eternal Weekend, and that drew 13 hopefuls to what ended up being an 0.7K... :rolleyes:

From memory, the meta was:
4 Miracles
2 Grixis Control
2 B/R Reanimator
1 Pox
1 Moggcatcher
1 Grixis Pyromancer
1 BUG Nic Fit
1 Shortcake (Painter)

My list:

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
2 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Stingscourger
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Abrade
2 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance


Round 1, B/R Reanimator 2-0
I win the die roll but mull to 6. He reveals Chancellor of the Annex. I play City of Traitors, Chrome Mox, Chalice of the Void @ 1. He plays a land and passes the turn. I follow up with a Magus and it attacks until I find a real threat.
Game 2 he mulls to 6 and reveals Chancellor. He unmasks himself to pitch Chancellor and I discard Faerie Macabre when he goes to Reanimate it. Rabblemaster closes the game quickly.

Round 2, Grixis Control 2-0
He wins the die roll and we both mulligan, but he has to do it twice. Pretty sure I get Chalice @ 1 and Magus out turns 1 and 2. He isn't able to put up much of a fight. Game 2 we both keep 7. He gets basic Swamp and Island into play but I get Chalice @ 1 and Blood Moon. He cantrips with Baleful Strix and gets in 2 attacks before I land Moggcatcher. Moggcatcher finds Chainwhirler, then Settler, then Kiki. He draws Kolaghan's Command the turn after I destroy his Swamp.

Round 3, Shortcake 0-2
I win the die roll and he mulls to 5! Life cannot get better. He's able to combo with 6 life left.
Game 2 we both mull to 6. He gets enough to deal with the lock pieces I throw out, and Smuggler's Copter does work in the air while digging him into gas. He wins by crewing two Copters while I'm at 5 life.

Round 4, Miracles 2-1
He wins the die roll and has Plows or Forces for whatever I try to assemble. I scoop at 18 life after he's run me out of cards while maintaining a decent hand for himself.
Game 2 we both mull to 6. I get Chandra, Torch of Defiance but he answers her with Council's Judgment. Fortunately I have a backup Chandra, which ultimates the turn after he Entreats. I show him two Chrome Moxes and we move on to game 3.
Chandra comes to the rescue again game 3. I don't have it written down, but I think he mulligans and cannot recover from our initial card disparity.

Round 5, BUG Nic Fit 2-1
He wins the die roll but mulls to 5. I show him a Moggcatcher (which runs away with the game), but he doesn't see any lock pieces. Game 2 I lose after taking 8 damage to Ancient Tomb. He reveals he doesn't have a clue what I'm up to by naming Goblin Lackey with Cabal Therapy. Game 3 begins and remains in my control.

Cut to top 4.
1st - Shortcake
2nd - Moggcatcher
3rd - U/R Delver
4th - Grixis Control

I reject the group consensus to split prizes and immediately lose to a terrible matchup.

Semi-Finals, U/R Delver 0-2
I win the die roll and reject my initial 7 of Mountain and 6 cards. My 6 doesn't have a land. Neither does my 5. My 4 has an Ancient Tomb and Simian Spirit Guide. Unsurprisingly I lose.
Game two I only have to mull to 6 and he keeps a 1 land hand! Unfortunately his 1 land hand included a threat, 2 Force of Wills and 2 blue cards. He drew into Abrades to negate any of my attempts to put up a fight.

Painter beats Grixis in their game and the finals get split.
I get $100 in credit and use it on shit for EDH.


After the event, I think I'd return Chainwhirler to 3 (from 4) and up Cratermaker to 3 (from 2).

Hey did you play at topdeck's legacy event in september also?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Yup (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=1055530&viewfull=1#post1055530) :wink:

[HouseOfCards]

we played the decider for who gets into top 8, I was on enchantress. Dude, your brew is sick. Love the moggcatcher. You should rock this at EW if you are going.

[Ace/Homebrew]

we played the decider for who gets into top 8, I was on enchantress.
I remember! I was looking for you Saturday. I was surprised that only two players from September made it out.

Hope to see you at the next one. :laugh:

Can't make EW unfortunately...

[Octopusman]

I got 3rd again at a local event with Moggcatcher.
The big prize was a bye to Eternal Weekend, and that drew 13 hopefuls to what ended up being an 0.7K... :rolleyes:

From memory, the meta was:
4 Miracles
2 Grixis Control
2 B/R Reanimator
1 Pox
1 Moggcatcher
1 Grixis Pyromancer
1 BUG Nic Fit
1 Shortcake (Painter)

My list:

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
2 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Stingscourger
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Abrade
2 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance


Round 1, B/R Reanimator 2-0
I win the die roll but mull to 6. He reveals Chancellor of the Annex. I play City of Traitors, Chrome Mox, Chalice of the Void @ 1. He plays a land and passes the turn. I follow up with a Magus and it attacks until I find a real threat.
Game 2 he mulls to 6 and reveals Chancellor. He unmasks himself to pitch Chancellor and I discard Faerie Macabre when he goes to Reanimate it. Rabblemaster closes the game quickly.

Round 2, Grixis Control 2-0
He wins the die roll and we both mulligan, but he has to do it twice. Pretty sure I get Chalice @ 1 and Magus out turns 1 and 2. He isn't able to put up much of a fight. Game 2 we both keep 7. He gets basic Swamp and Island into play but I get Chalice @ 1 and Blood Moon. He cantrips with Baleful Strix and gets in 2 attacks before I land Moggcatcher. Moggcatcher finds Chainwhirler, then Settler, then Kiki. He draws Kolaghan's Command the turn after I destroy his Swamp.

Round 3, Shortcake 0-2
I win the die roll and he mulls to 5! Life cannot get better. He's able to combo with 6 life left.
Game 2 we both mull to 6. He gets enough to deal with the lock pieces I throw out, and Smuggler's Copter does work in the air while digging him into gas. He wins by crewing two Copters while I'm at 5 life.

Round 4, Miracles 2-1
He wins the die roll and has Plows or Forces for whatever I try to assemble. I scoop at 18 life after he's run me out of cards while maintaining a decent hand for himself.
Game 2 we both mull to 6. I get Chandra, Torch of Defiance but he answers her with Council's Judgment. Fortunately I have a backup Chandra, which ultimates the turn after he Entreats. I show him two Chrome Moxes and we move on to game 3.
Chandra comes to the rescue again game 3. I don't have it written down, but I think he mulligans and cannot recover from our initial card disparity.

Round 5, BUG Nic Fit 2-1
He wins the die roll but mulls to 5. I show him a Moggcatcher (which runs away with the game), but he doesn't see any lock pieces. Game 2 I lose after taking 8 damage to Ancient Tomb. He reveals he doesn't have a clue what I'm up to by naming Goblin Lackey with Cabal Therapy. Game 3 begins and remains in my control.

Cut to top 4.
1st - Shortcake
2nd - Moggcatcher
3rd - U/R Delver
4th - Grixis Control

I reject the group consensus to split prizes and immediately lose to a terrible matchup.

Semi-Finals, U/R Delver 0-2
I win the die roll and reject my initial 7 of Mountain and 6 cards. My 6 doesn't have a land. Neither does my 5. My 4 has an Ancient Tomb and Simian Spirit Guide. Unsurprisingly I lose.
Game two I only have to mull to 6 and he keeps a 1 land hand! Unfortunately his 1 land hand included a threat, 2 Force of Wills and 2 blue cards. He drew into Abrades to negate any of my attempts to put up a fight.

Painter beats Grixis in their game and the finals get split.
I get $100 in credit and use it on shit for EDH.


After the event, I think I'd return Chainwhirler to 3 (from 4) and up Cratermaker to 3 (from 2).

Been dying to play a list like this for a while. This looks super fun! Thanks for posting! Kill any Eldrazi with Cratermaker?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Been dying to play a list like this for a while. This looks super fun! Thanks for posting! Kill any Eldrazi with Cratermaker?
Only artifacts so far. :wink:
Unfortunately I'm down to Legacy once every month or two.

[Ace/Homebrew]

This is likely to take a few days for me to finish, but all 622 decklists have been published from Eternal Weekend. That combined with the pairings and standings information gives us enough data to paint a picture of how this deck did that weekend. I've identified 20 decks that could reasonably be called Dragon Stompy, although some are very much a stretch. Twenty out of 622 means the deck was about 3.2% of the meta.

Philip Javier - 78th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Abrade
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Boil
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Torpor Orb
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 Quicksmith Rebel

R1 Won against James Scheibel piloting
R2 Won against Brian Riedel piloting
R3 Won against Tom Baker piloting
R4 Lost to Michael McKnight piloting
R5 Won against Marshall Arthurs piloting
R6 Won against Corey Cooke piloting
R7 Won against Deven Dupuis piloting
R8 Lost to Alexander Caviris piloting
R9 Lost to Matthew McCallum piloting
R10 Won against Ben Kendrick piloting
R11 Lost to Samuel Castrucci piloting

------------------------------------

Mark Skurka - 91st

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Abrade
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Boil

R1 Lost to Juan Depina piloting
R2 Won against Tyler Bailey piloting
R3 Won against David Ketterer piloting
R4 Won against Wilkin Chau piloting
R5 Lost to Ramy Mansour piloting
R6 Won against James Manges piloting
R7 Won against Patrick Burt piloting
R8 Won against Michael Reed piloting
R9 Lost to Brent Clawson piloting
R10 Won against Jimmy Kirsch piloting
R11 Lost to Nachiket Chauhan piloting

------------------------------------

Donovan Leary - 99th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sudden Shock
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Karn, Scion of Urza

R1 Won against Scott Vance piloting
R2 Lost to Matt Burnett piloting Dragon Stompy
R3 Won against Eric English piloting
R4 Lost to Trevor Nash piloting
R5 Won against Patrick Doyle piloting Infect
R6 Won against William Lee piloting
R7 Won against Dominic Casali piloting
R8 Won against Joe Nash piloting Dragon Stompy
R9 Lost to Derek Heinbach piloting
R10 Won against Kwan Han piloting
R11 Lost to Tim Wilder piloting Mentor Miracles

------------------------------------

Nick Garbers - 108th

4 Blood Moon
3 Blood Sun
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
3 Boil
2 Chaos Warp
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Quicksmith Rebel
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Trinisphere
1 Sin Prodder

R1 Won against Dylan Petter piloting Portent Miracles
R2 Won against Herbert Wilson piloting Death & Taxes
R3 Won against Sam Church piloting TES
R4 Lost to Dan Nelson piloting Czech Pile
R5 Lost to Nicholas Eiginger piloting B/G NicFit
R6 Lost to Robert Long piloting BUG Control
R7 Lost to Oran Kremen piloting Turbo Depths
R8 Won against Ryan Laplante piloting Czech Pile
R9 Won against Matt Horne piloting U/B Shadow
R10 Won against Roman Beran piloting 12 Post
R11 Won against Nicholas Patniyot piloting Pox Depths

------------------------------------

Kyle Gascoigne - 111th

4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Koth of the Hammer
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox
1 Crystal Vein
1 Lotus Petal

Sideboard
1 Sudden Shock
2 Blood Sun
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Chaos Warp
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Shattering Spree

R1 Won against Joe Nash piloting Dragon Stompy
R2 Lost to Thomas Lynch piloting Enchantress
R3 Lost to Daniel Seco piloting Czech Pile
R4 Lost to Steve Kappas piloting Manaless Dredge
R5 Won against Peter Graf piloting Infect
R6 Won against David Kearns piloting Elves
R7 Won against Ross Cooperman piloting Elves
R8 Lost to Tim Wilder piloting Mentor Miracles
R9 Won against Joshua Warren piloting Burn
R10 Won against Devin Nash piloting Death & Taxes
R11 Won against Dalton Copenhaver piloting B/R Reanimator

------------------------------------

Mark Evans - 119th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Abrade
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere

R1 Lost to Michael Darcy piloting Mentor Miracles
R2 Lost to Travis Shakoske piloting Ruby Storm
R3 Won against Steven Perciavelle piloting Mentor Miracles
R4 Won against Daniel Goetschel piloting Mentor Miracles
R5 Won against Andy Yeh piloting Reanimator
R6 Won against Jason Moon piloting Goblins
R7 Lost to Keith Newyear piloting U/B OmniTell
R8 Won against Kris Burningham piloting B/R Reanimator
R9 Won against William Gurowicz piloting ANT
R10 Draw against Andy Wu piloting Eldrazi Post
R11 Lost to Brad Gutkin piloting BUG Foodchain

------------------------------------

Joe Nash - 138th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Ensnaring Bridge

R1 Lost to Kyle Gascoigne piloting Dragon Stompy
R2 Won against Timothy Everett piloting
R3 Won against Matthew Ivans piloting
R4 Won against Brad Gerberick piloting
R5 Won against Ben Williams piloting
R6 Lost to Fucheng Jiao piloting
R7 Won against Russell Weeks piloting
R8 Lost to Donovan Leary piloting Dragon Stompy
R9 Won against Greg Kotscharjan piloting
R10 Lost to Nachiket Chauhan piloting
R11 Lost to Louis Fata piloting

------------------------------------

Rick Edmister - 177th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Abrade
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Koth of the Hammer

R1 Won, BYE
R2 Won against Austin Williams piloting Grixis Delver
R3 Won against Douglas Wilson piloting Shardless BUG
R4 Lost to Brendan Hagan piloting Elves
R5 Won against Matthew Falchetti piloting Grixis Delver
R6 Lost to Daniel D'Amato piloting ANT
R7 Won against Edward Chatwood piloting Sneak & Show
R8 Lost to Masataka Takahashi piloting ANT
Drop

------------------------------------

Randall Williams - 281st

4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
4 Fiery Confluence
7 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Icy Manipulator
2 Ratchet Bomb

R1 Won against Cody Gravelle piloting
R2 Won against Scott Ferguson piloting
R3 Lost to Devin Nash piloting Death & Taxes
R4 Lost to Ramy Mansour piloting
R5 Won against John Dess piloting
R6 Won against Unknown piloting Unknown (pairings don't mention Randall, but standings show a win)
R7 Lost to Joseph Mikiewicz piloting
R8 Lost to Andrew Vawter piloting
Drop

------------------------------------

Matt Burnett - 289th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Goblin Cratermaker
3 Sulfur Elemental

R1 Won against Travis Skaggs piloting Eldrazi Post
R2 Won against Donovan Leavy piloting Dragon Stompy
R3 Lost to Nicholas Eiginger piloting G/B NicFit
R4 Lost to Alex Bastecki piloting U/W Stoneblade
R5 Won against Eric Vergo piloting RUG Delver
R6 Won against Tyler Marklyn piloting Death & Taxes
R7 Lost to Chris Hafner piloting Mentor Miracles
Drop

------------------------------------

Yamine Gluchow - 290th

4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Volcanic Fallout

R1 Won against Ryan Nayar piloting
R2 Lost to Elton Wong piloting
R3 Won against Giovanni Valencia piloting
R4 Won against Matthew Rhett piloting
R5 Won against Jason Drooney piloting
R6 Lost to Axel Cobb piloting
R7 Lost to Michael Antrim piloting
R8 Lost to Douglas Wilson piloting Shardless BUG
R9 Lost to Brad Gerberick piloting
R10 Lost to Adam Ostap piloting
Drop

------------------------------------

Derek Gallacher - 302nd

3 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Traxos, Scourge of Kroog
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox
3 Wasteland
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Great Furnace

Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Boil
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Damping Sphere
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Magus of the Moon

R1 Lost to Chris Perciavalle piloting Mentor Miracles
R2 Lost to Patrick Vincent piloting Dredge
R3 Won against Jessa Ma piloting Czech Pile
R4 Won against Richard Vernon piloting U/W RIP/Helm
R5 Won against Collin Bornhoft piloting ANT
R6 Won against Gregory Ceccarelli piloting B/R Reanimator
R7 Lost to Masataka Takahashi piloting ANT
Drop

------------------------------------

Greg Kraigher - 339th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
12 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Anarchy
3 Abrade
3 Dead // Gone
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Starke of Rath

R1 Won against Gerald Pecora piloting
R2 Won against Shawn French piloting
R3 Won against Daniel Schreiner piloting TES
R4 Lost to Cassie Rose piloting
R5 Lost to Tyler Anderson piloting
R6 Lost to Phillip Steriopoulos piloting
Drop

------------------------------------

Jason Blume - 377th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Null Rod
3 Boil

R1 Lost to Daniel Schreiner piloting TES
R2 Won against Keith Morris piloting Infect
R3 Won against Adam Konkey piloting U/W RIP/Helm
R4 Won against Noah Bakri piloting Czech Pile
R5 Lost to Andrew Fiedler piloting Sneak & Show
R6 Lost to Keith Newyear piloting U/B OmniTell
Drop

------------------------------------

Eric Dobrosky - 413th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Quicksmith Rebel
4 Fiery Confluence
7 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Kozilek's Return
1 Quicksmith Rebel
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Sorcerous Spyglass

R1 Won, BYE
R2 Won against Ben Hunt piloting B/R Reanimator Storm (sorta Tin-Finsish)
R3 Lost to Brian Durkin piloting Antiquities War Painter
R4 Lost to Clair Bigelow piloting 4C NicFit
R5 Lost to Kelvin Wallace piloting ANT
Drop

------------------------------------

James Vogel - 421st

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Koth of the Hammer
3 Experimental Frenzy
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Abrade
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

R1 Won against Jesse Ma piloting
R2 Won against Keith Newyear piloting U/B OmniTell
R3 Lost to Cyrus Corman-Gill piloting
R4 Lost to Richard Cox piloting
R5 Lost to Steve Kappas piloting Manaless Dredge
Drop

------------------------------------

Jared Lentz - 441st

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid

R1 Lost to Greg Mitchell piloting
R2 Won against Seth Collum piloting
R3 Won against Devaney Henderson piloting
R4 Lost to Colin Krushinski piloting
R5 Lost to Kiran Krishnasamy piloting
R6 Lost to Joshua Volker piloting
R7 Lost to Brendan He piloting
Drop

------------------------------------

Andrew Frank - 450th

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Fiery Confluence
9 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ash Barrens
2 Talisman of Indulgence

Sideboard
2 Kozilek's Return
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Trinisphere
1 Null Rod
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Thorn of Amethyst

R1 Lost to Nicholas Germano piloting Death & Taxes
R2 Won against Chris Danis piloting Czech Pile
R3 Lost to Kevin Kelsey piloting Maverick
R4 Lost to Eric Vergo piloting RUG Delver
R5 Won against Camden Paolucci piloting Burn
R6 Lost to Patrick Doyle piloting Infect
R7 Lost to Anthony Peszek piloting Death & Taxes
Drop

------------------------------------

Ryo Jumonji - 578th

3 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Izzet Charm
3 Search for Azcanta
4 Deceiver Exarch
2 Pestermite
4 Splinter Twin
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
2 Mountain
2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Ash Barrens
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Abrade
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Blood Moon
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
1 Negate

R1 Lost to Jeff Green piloting
Drop

------------------------------------

Tony Gerardot - 606th

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Abrade
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 From the Ashes
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Sphere of Resistance

R1 Lost to Tyler Roth piloting Lands
R2 Lost to Sangar Suntah piloting Burn
R3 Lost to John Russell piloting G/W Death & Taxes
R4 Lost to Taylor Birrell piloting Czech Pile
Drop

------------------------------------

[megaflippo]

Hi Zac,

would U be able to give an update on this list, starting from the list U played and did well with on Leaving a Legacy tournament (including legion warboss)??




So over the past few weeks, a few different people have asked me for my current list and sideboarding guide. In Comp REL, I'm 14-3 since the bans, and am currently 113-52 in leagues since the ban.

Current List


Here is the current sideboards I commonly use for the most popular decks


Miracles
Add
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
Remove
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Magus of the Moon

Death and Taxes
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
1 Blood Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Trinisphere

RUG Delver
Add
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Sneak and Show
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Fiery Confluence

Lands
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
2 Trinisphere
2 Fiery Confluence
1 Karn, Scion of Urza

Storm (ANT &TES)
Add
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Ensaring Bridge
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Stoneblade
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
Remove
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Chrome Mox

Grixis Delver
Add
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Chrome Mox (Draw)
1 Karn, Scion of Urza (Play)

4c Loam
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Trinisphere
1 Chalice of the Void

Grixis Midrange
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence

Eldrazi Stompy
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
1 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Trinisphere

B/R Reanimator
Add
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
2 Blood Moon
3 Fiery Confluence

Infect
Add
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Ensnaring Bridge

Turbo Depths
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Trinisphere

Elves
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Karn, Scion of Urza (Play)
2 Blood Moon (Draw)

Burn
Add
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge


Questions/Comments/Concerns?

[ZTurgeon]

Hi Zac,

would U be able to give an update on this list, starting from the list U played and did well with on Leaving a Legacy tournament (including legion warboss)??

Sure.

My current list is:


4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
4 Legion Warboss
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Pia & Kiran Nalaar
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Fiery Confluence
7 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Chaos Warp
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Sulfur Elemental


The main change is the Warboss. With 8 rabblemaster, this allows the deck additional angles of attack and additional keepable hands. Now you function in almost a 3 pronged attack (keep in mind, you don't get to choose which one you are each game, due to the static nature of your draws).

First you have the classic prison gameplan. Very little changed here as you still have 14 lock pieces in the main deck.

Second you have the new aggro/combo plan. With 8 rabblemasters the odds of seeing 2 in your opening 7 are about 25%. So 1 of every 4 games you can set up games where you can kill your opponent on turn 3 if they don't defend themselves in the right manner. It certainly takes more effort and is shakier than other plans, but it is also a free side plan in this deck.

And lastly you have the midrange soup hands of the rest of your cards. Cards like Chandra and Karn play dual roles in being jayemdae tomes and powerful game ending threats. Confluence threatens to reset the board if you are behind and speed up the clock if you are ahead.

And obviously these things still mix and mingle together. Mostly, I have just found the deck to be much more aggressive and capable of putting your opponent in very hard positions. Because so many cards run away with the game or end it on the spot (4 Chalice,8 moons, 8 rabbles, 7 walkers, 1 P&K), I don't really fear Force of Will. Daze can still be an issue, but if your opponent is willing to pitch 2 cards to stop 1 card, eventually they will run out of answers given the current decks threat density. For instance I played a game online recently where I played a turn 1 moon against what turned out to be grixis control. They forced it pitching a cantrip. Then I played a turn 2 Warboss. They tanked for a minute and then forced the warboss again pitching a cantrip. On turn 3 I played a Karn and it resolved. I ticked it up and without even seeing the cards, they conceded.

I feel like more and more of my games are going in that direction, with every card just being enough of a threat that the game will end if they stick.


The other big-ish, change is the Scab-Clan Berserkers have become pyrostatic pillars. The reasons for that are 2 fold:

1) Scab-Clan is more easily answerable by miracles and Grixis Control. Grixis control has bolt, Strix or a well timed K-Command. Miracles has Swords, Terminus, and both have well timed snap blocks. Scab used to come in against these decks just to increase threat density and force them to take some extra damage if they couldn't respond at instant speed. It was fine, but nothing special. Now Pyrostatic Pillar is something special against these decks. Grixis simply canno't remove the card. This means they have 10 spells + Force + Jace to end the game. And that's not even counting damage you do or the 2-4 damage they take a game off fetches. This puts great strain on cantrips and cards like Baleful Strix. As for Miracles, they have recently moved into an insanely cantrip heavy version, with some versions going so far as playing 17 blue based cantrips. Jamming a pillar at them demands a force of will, or it will normally deal 6+ damage before it get's answered.

2) While it is less effective against storm combo decks, it is still the second best option as it fills almost all the same criteria as Berserker. It too isn't an artifact, so a single Recall can't return all of your hate peices in one go and it sticks around through pulverize. A card like Trinisphere is harder for them to win though, but easier for them to remove.

So the combination of wanting a better card against the cantrip heavy decks, yet still wanting a diversified hate piece against combo decks has lead to pillar being the right fit. With 8 rabbles, the lack of aggression from the scab clan's body is felt less. A set up of Pillar into A Goblin is going to leave them with little time and less life than needed to escape most of the time.

[megaflippo]

Hi Zac,

Thanks for the update!

What are your Sb guidelines U use in the different matchups?
Also how do U manage the dark depths MU? Board out the blood moon effects out or keep them in?

Thx for all the advice....




Sure.

My current list is:


The main change is the Warboss. With 8 rabblemaster, this allows the deck additional angles of attack and additional keepable hands. Now you function in almost a 3 pronged attack (keep in mind, you don't get to choose which one you are each game, due to the static nature of your draws).

First you have the classic prison gameplan. Very little changed here as you still have 14 lock pieces in the main deck.

Second you have the new aggro/combo plan. With 8 rabblemasters the odds of seeing 2 in your opening 7 are about 25%. So 1 of every 4 games you can set up games where you can kill your opponent on turn 3 if they don't defend themselves in the right manner. It certainly takes more effort and is shakier than other plans, but it is also a free side plan in this deck.

And lastly you have the midrange soup hands of the rest of your cards. Cards like Chandra and Karn play dual roles in being jayemdae tomes and powerful game ending threats. Confluence threatens to reset the board if you are behind and speed up the clock if you are ahead.

And obviously these things still mix and mingle together. Mostly, I have just found the deck to be much more aggressive and capable of putting your opponent in very hard positions. Because so many cards run away with the game or end it on the spot (4 Chalice,8 moons, 8 rabbles, 7 walkers, 1 P&K), I don't really fear Force of Will. Daze can still be an issue, but if your opponent is willing to pitch 2 cards to stop 1 card, eventually they will run out of answers given the current decks threat density. For instance I played a game online recently where I played a turn 1 moon against what turned out to be grixis control. They forced it pitching a cantrip. Then I played a turn 2 Warboss. They tanked for a minute and then forced the warboss again pitching a cantrip. On turn 3 I played a Karn and it resolved. I ticked it up and without even seeing the cards, they conceded.

I feel like more and more of my games are going in that direction, with every card just being enough of a threat that the game will end if they stick.


The other big-ish, change is the Scab-Clan Berserkers have become pyrostatic pillars. The reasons for that are 2 fold:

1) Scab-Clan is more easily answerable by miracles and Grixis Control. Grixis control has bolt, Strix or a well timed K-Command. Miracles has Swords, Terminus, and both have well timed snap blocks. Scab used to come in against these decks just to increase threat density and force them to take some extra damage if they couldn't respond at instant speed. It was fine, but nothing special. Now Pyrostatic Pillar is something special against these decks. Grixis simply canno't remove the card. This means they have 10 spells + Force + Jace to end the game. And that's not even counting damage you do or the 2-4 damage they take a game off fetches. This puts great strain on cantrips and cards like Baleful Strix. As for Miracles, they have recently moved into an insanely cantrip heavy version, with some versions going so far as playing 17 blue based cantrips. Jamming a pillar at them demands a force of will, or it will normally deal 6+ damage before it get's answered.

2) While it is less effective against storm combo decks, it is still the second best option as it fills almost all the same criteria as Berserker. It too isn't an artifact, so a single Recall can't return all of your hate peices in one go and it sticks around through pulverize. A card like Trinisphere is harder for them to win though, but easier for them to remove.

So the combination of wanting a better card against the cantrip heavy decks, yet still wanting a diversified hate piece against combo decks has lead to pillar being the right fit. With 8 rabbles, the lack of aggression from the scab clan's body is felt less. A set up of Pillar into A Goblin is going to leave them with little time and less life than needed to escape most of the time.

[ZTurgeon]

Hi Zac,

Thanks for the update!

What are your Sb guidelines U use in the different matchups?
Also how do U manage the dark depths MU? Board out the blood moon effects out or keep them in?

Thx for all the advice....

I don't have time at the moment to write them all down right now, but I will later.

But as for Depths, just board into a full prison deck. You want all the lockpeices, including all the moon effects (magus is better in the matchup) and you want all your spyglasses to name Deed. After board, they simply don't have enough ways to clear out permanent based hate, so just keep playing them and eventually the 5th or 6th piece will lock them out for good.

[Misdirection]

So over the past few weeks, a few different people have asked me for my current list and sideboarding guide. In Comp REL, I'm 14-3 since the bans, and am currently 113-52 in leagues since the ban.

Current List


Here is the current sideboards I commonly use for the most popular decks


Miracles
Add
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
Remove
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Magus of the Moon

Death and Taxes
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
1 Blood Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Trinisphere

RUG Delver
Add
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Sneak and Show
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Fiery Confluence

Lands
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
2 Trinisphere
2 Fiery Confluence
1 Karn, Scion of Urza

Storm (ANT &TES)
Add
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Ensaring Bridge
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Stoneblade
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
Remove
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Chrome Mox

Grixis Delver
Add
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Chrome Mox (Draw)
1 Karn, Scion of Urza (Play)

4c Loam
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Trinisphere
1 Chalice of the Void

Grixis Midrange
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence

Eldrazi Stompy
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
1 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Trinisphere

B/R Reanimator
Add
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
2 Blood Moon
3 Fiery Confluence

Infect
Add
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Ensnaring Bridge

Turbo Depths
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Trinisphere

Elves
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Karn, Scion of Urza (Play)
2 Blood Moon (Draw)

Burn
Add
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge


Questions/Comments/Concerns?

Guys, new to the deck, is Grixis Delver a bad matchup?
I found that the matchup seems to be quite poor after sb, especially they now have Abrade for our Bridge and Anglar is a pain...

[Saboo]

Guys, new to the deck, is Grixis Delver a bad matchup?
I found that the matchup seems to be quite poor after sb, especially they now have Abrade for our Bridge and Anglar is a pain...

I play a similar list to him; I keep Bridge in the SB and mulligan aggressively to shut down their lands and stick a big flyer that can race their fish.

[Alex_UNLIMITED]

So over the past few weeks, a few different people have asked me for my current list and sideboarding guide. In Comp REL, I'm 14-3 since the bans, and am currently 113-52 in leagues since the ban.

Current List


Here is the current sideboards I commonly use for the most popular decks


Miracles
Add
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
Remove
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Magus of the Moon

Death and Taxes
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
1 Blood Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Trinisphere

RUG Delver
Add
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Sneak and Show
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Fiery Confluence

Lands
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
2 Trinisphere
2 Fiery Confluence
1 Karn, Scion of Urza

Storm (ANT &TES)
Add
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Ensaring Bridge
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Stoneblade
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
4 Sulfur Elemental
Remove
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Chrome Mox

Grixis Delver
Add
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Chrome Mox (Draw)
1 Karn, Scion of Urza (Play)

4c Loam
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Trinisphere
1 Chalice of the Void

Grixis Midrange
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Fiery Confluence

Eldrazi Stompy
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
1 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Trinisphere

B/R Reanimator
Add
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
2 Blood Moon
3 Fiery Confluence

Infect
Add
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Ensnaring Bridge

Turbo Depths
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
1 Chaos Warp
Remove
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Trinisphere

Elves
Add
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Abrade
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Karn, Scion of Urza (Play)
2 Blood Moon (Draw)

Burn
Add
2 Abrade
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Sulfur Elemental
2 Kozilek's Return
Remove
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge


Questions/Comments/Concerns?

Are these sideboarding strategies still valid with the adding of Legion Warboss? I mean, before this new card, a lot of people preferred to side out Goblin Rabblemaster to play a more "control" game against decks like Grixis Delver. Now, with 8 cards that creates Goblins, what's the best thing to do?


Here's the Hiroyuki Kaga’s Red Prison from GP Shizuoka. He plays 8 Goblins and he hits the second place!

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Chrome Mox
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
6 Snow-Covered Mountain
5 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Sideborard:
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Abrade
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Kozilek's Return

[ZTurgeon]

Are these sideboarding strategies still valid with the adding of Legion Warboss? I mean, before this new card, a lot of people preferred to side out Goblin Rabblemaster to play a more "control" game against decks like Grixis Delver. Now, with 8 cards that creates Goblins, what's the best thing to do?


Here's the Hiroyuki Kaga’s Red Prison from GP Shizuoka. He plays 8 Goblins and he hits the second place!

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Chrome Mox
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
6 Snow-Covered Mountain
5 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Sideborard:
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Abrade
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Kozilek's Return

Sorry for the short replies, I have been fairly busy. The general idea is just ask "Can I race them?"

Against something like Delver, you can race them. An unanswered Goblin can race any single creature from there deck. So you can take the stance that if you both draw equally, you can race them. But in something like death and Tax's case, you can't race them. No amount of Goblins are going to beat cards with first strike and things like Batterskull. So you still need to go into full prison mode with them.

[Alex_UNLIMITED]

Sorry for the short replies, I have been fairly busy. The general idea is just ask "Can I race them?"

Against something like Delver, you can race them. An unanswered Goblin can race any single creature from there deck. So you can take the stance that if you both draw equally, you can race them. But in something like death and Tax's case, you can't race them. No amount of Goblins are going to beat cards with first strike and things like Batterskull. So you still need to go into full prison mode with them.
So is it a good choice to side out the 8 Goblins against D&T?

[ParisFlorian]

Actually you can race them with Chandra Pyromaster +1. This is a very smart addition to the 8 gobs build.

Envoyé de mon SM-G950F en utilisant Tapatalk

[ZTurgeon]

Actually you can race them with Chandra Pyromaster +1. This is a very smart addition to the 8 gobs build.

Envoyé de mon SM-G950F en utilisant Tapatalk

Eh. Its good against exactly death and taxes and miracles. I think Karn does a better job in all of your other matches, while still being good in that one. It's a solid idea, but im not sure it warents the spot right now. If D&T picks up, I can see it being needed.

[frogger42]

I have a paper to work on for tomorrow night, so I figure now's the perfect time to procrastinate.

Here's an old version of my deck that I'd won a few duals at tourneys with:

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Zoetic Cavern
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Rabblemaster / Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Walking Ballista
1 Manic Vandal
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 More Flex Slots, prolly Hanweir Garrison

SB:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Imp Recruiter silver bullets: Stingscourger; Viashino Heretic; etc etc

I've enjoyed some decent success with this build, but facing Jitte/SoFI and Gurmag Angler are the biggest weaknesses of the deck - the two equip kill just about everything in the deck, and Gurmag is bigger than anything I can throw in front of it. So I needed a way to deal with equip - Imperial Recruiter -> Manic Vandal in the maindeck.

And like 2 months after I realized Goblin Cratermaker was printed I realized it was a card. Eats the biggest threats, Jitte and SoFI, kills Moxen and Mother of Runes, etc.

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Zoetic Cavern
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Avaricious Dragon
4 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Umezawa's Jitte

SB: 4 Thorn
4 Faerie
2 SoFI
2 Sword Light and Shadow
3 idk

I cut down on the equip hoping the Dragon might draw me into some (though I should probably add a 3rd equip to the MD - makes Zoetic Cavern a threat), and SoFI doesn't combo well with Hazoret, unlike Dragon and Raiders. While I'm not positive the fatties are where I want to take this build. I playtested Cratermaker vs Miracles, and it's AWESOME to eat Monastery Mentors, too. The Grizzly Bears does a lot of work.

I figure I'd share the two builds in case anyone wanted to try them out. I'm not sure how well they're positioned in the meta currently, but they're def fighters, and not the kind of deck to sit behind a Bridge and durdle and lose to JTMS.

[Misdirection]

I have a question regarding hands that are playable:

In the dark, drawing first, will you keep a hand that can only produce a blood moon or chalice turn 2?
And may be a chandra or a goblin for example?
That seems too slow to me...

Will the decision change when you are on 6 cards for the same turn 2 blood moon?

For 6 cards, I will keep a hand that can only produce a chalice on turn 2.
With the amount of mana acceleration we have and two draw steps (scry+draw), I think we are favored to get the chalice into play on turn 1?

For 5 cards, I believe we have to keep a turn 2 Blood Moon or turn 2 Goblin hand nevertheless.....

Another scenario, but this time is playing first:
In the dark, playing first, will you keep a hand that can only produce a blood moon or chalice turn 2?
And may be a chandra or a Goblin for example?
That seems too slow to me...

Will the decision change when you are on 6 cards for the same turn 2 blood moon?

For 6 cards, I probably will mull to 5 to make a turn one play lock pieces

For 5 cards, I believe we have to keep a turn 2 Blood Moon or turn 2 Goblin hand nevertheless.....

[ZTurgeon]

I have a question regarding hands that are playable:

In the dark, drawing first, will you keep a hand that can only produce a blood moon or chalice turn 2?
And may be a chandra or a goblin for example?
That seems too slow to me...

Will the decision change when you are on 6 cards for the same turn 2 blood moon?

For 6 cards, I will keep a hand that can only produce a chalice on turn 2.
With the amount of mana acceleration we have and two draw steps (scry+draw), I think we are favored to get the chalice into play on turn 1?

For 5 cards, I believe we have to keep a turn 2 Blood Moon or turn 2 Goblin hand nevertheless.....

Another scenario, but this time is playing first:
In the dark, playing first, will you keep a hand that can only produce a blood moon or chalice turn 2?
And may be a chandra or a Goblin for example?
That seems too slow to me...

Will the decision change when you are on 6 cards for the same turn 2 blood moon?

For 6 cards, I probably will mull to 5 to make a turn one play lock pieces

For 5 cards, I believe we have to keep a turn 2 Blood Moon or turn 2 Goblin hand nevertheless.....

There was a time when I think this was right, but with the power level of the deck, I think you can keep a turn 2 hand basically all the time now. Obviously i dont keep a hand that has a turn 2 hand and nothing else, but unless the matchup dictates that you must be incredibly fast (like a combo matchup), I have found much more success in instead being able to go do things like turn 2 Moon, Turn 3 Magus, Turn 4 Chandra. Against many decks, a basic hand like that will force them to have 3 answers in a row, and they usually can't commit to the board if they need to stop you. Adding in the 8 goblin package, and suddenly you have lots of hands that demand answers and that is the best way to play this deck. If you are constantly asking questions, you are winning. Once you stop, it becomes a very hard game.

[Blink]

Hey people, Been a long time admirer of the deck and finally got the pieces to finish it in paper. I'm wondering if anyone can point me towards a sideboard guide for the latest versions of the deck with 4 Rabble/4 LWB. It doesn't need to be for my exact list just a general guide so i have a good starting point to create my own. Thanks !

[Packer]

I second Blink's request. I just picked the deck up and I'm planning on taking to the SCG Worcester Classic. So any information that more experienced players could provide would be greatly appreciated. For reference I'm currently running this 75:
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Legion Warboss
4x Magus of the Moon
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3x Karn, Scion of Urza
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
7x Mountain
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
2x Trinisphere
3x Fiery Confluence
4x Blood Moon

Sideboard (15)
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
4x Sulfur Elemental

[ZTurgeon]

I second Blink's request. I just picked the deck up and I'm planning on taking to the SCG Worcester Classic. So any information that more experienced players could provide would be greatly appreciated. For reference I'm currently running this 75:
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Legion Warboss
4x Magus of the Moon
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3x Karn, Scion of Urza
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
7x Mountain
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
2x Trinisphere
3x Fiery Confluence
4x Blood Moon

Sideboard (15)
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
4x Sulfur Elemental


Well, Seeing as that is my exact list, I guess I will do it.



Grixis Delver
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge

OUT
3x Karn, Scion of Urza
2x Magus of the Moon
1x Chrome Mox




Sneak and Show
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sorcerous Spyglass

OUT
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon





Miracles
IN
2x Chaos Warp
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
4x Sulfur Elemental

OUT
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Chrome Mox
4 Magus of the Moon





Storm (Both ANT and TES)
IN
3x Pyrostatic Pillar

OUT
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance





Grixis Control
IN
2x Chaos Warp
3x Pyrostatic Pillar

OUT
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Chrome Mox
2x Trinisphere




Eldrazi Stompy
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sorcerous Spyglass

OUT
2x Trinisphere
2x Chalice of the Void (Put it on 2)
4x Goblin Warboss





GB Dark Depths
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sorcerous Spyglass

OUT
2 Trinisphere
3 Fiery Confluence
3 Goblin Rabblemaster





Elves
IN
3x Pyrostatic Pillar

OUT
3 Karn, Scion of Urza





Lands
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sorcerous Spyglass

OUT
2x Trinisphere
3x Fiery Confluence
2x Magus of the Moon
1x Chalice of the Void





Reanimator
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sorcerous Spyglass

OUT
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon (Draw)
3 Fiery Confluence (Play)
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance (Play)





Eldrazi Post
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sorcerous Spyglass

OUT
2x Trinisphere
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Karn, Scion of Urza





UB Shadow
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge

OUT
3x Karn, Scion of Urza
3x Fiery Confluence





UW Stoneblade
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sorcerous Spyglass

OUT
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Goblin Warboss





Death and Taxes
IN
2x Chaos Warp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
4x Sulfur Elemental

OUT
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Goblin Warboss
2x Trinisphere
2x Magus of the Moon

[Packer]

Awesome thanks so much Zac. Needless to say I was impressed with yours and Tom Kessler's finishes at the LaL Open last month and decided to finally pick up the deck after wanting to play it for some time.

[caprino]

Well, Seeing as that is my exact list, I guess I will do it.

Very nice.

Vs burn, Ur delver, threshold and infect you side in and side out. Thanks

[guslandt]

4x Sulfur Elemental
ZTurgeon, first off, THANK YOU for posting this! I've been running a similar list for the past month at my LGS and always going 3-1.

Secondly, I'm curious as to why you run 4x Sulfur Elemental. I see you only bring them in VS Miracles and D&T. I'm assuming you bring them in VS Miracles just to have more bodies on the field, not because you think you'll get all 4 on the field to kill their angels. :tongue:

That makes me wonder - is the D&T matchup really so bad that we need 4 sideboard slots just VS that deck? I've been running Kozilek's Returns since I usually get paired up with a goblins player and I need the constant wipes.

I really want to give your list a try, but I'm nervous about running 0 Ensnaring Bridge main. I win enough game 1s just because of main deck ensnaring bridge.

[Misdirection]

Very nice.

Vs burn, Ur delver, threshold and infect you side in and side out. Thanks

Do you mean we are not changing in any card vs those decks?

[Misdirection]

ZTurgeon, first off, THANK YOU for posting this! I've been running a similar list for the past month at my LGS and always going 3-1.

Secondly, I'm curious as to why you run 4x Sulfur Elemental. I see you only bring them in VS Miracles and D&T. I'm assuming you bring them in VS Miracles just to have more bodies on the field, not because you think you'll get all 4 on the field to kill their angels. :tongue:

That makes me wonder - is the D&T matchup really so bad that we need 4 sideboard slots just VS that deck? I've been running Kozilek's Returns since I usually get paired up with a goblins player and I need the constant wipes.

I really want to give your list a try, but I'm nervous about running 0 Ensnaring Bridge main. I win enough game 1s just because of main deck ensnaring bridge.

The DNT matchup is quite bad as any equipment is hard for this deck.
4 Sulfur Elemental may be an overkill though.

Against Miracles, I lost way more to Jace than anything else. Hence I will not worry too much against Mentor.
So I would say Sulfur Elemental is more for DNT only.
Agree that Kozilek's Return is a more versatile card against the field.
Also, being able to kill Revoker, Stoneforge against DNT is sth to look at.

[ZTurgeon]

The DNT matchup is quite bad as any equipment is hard for this deck.
4 Sulfur Elemental may be an overkill though.

Against Miracles, I lost way more to Jace than anything else. Hence I will not worry too much against Mentor.
So I would say Sulfur Elemental is more for DNT only.
Agree that Kozilek's Return is a more versatile card against the field.
Also, being able to kill Revoker, Stoneforge against DNT is sth to look at.

Sulfur elemental is very important against Miracles as well as D&T. And yes, 4 Sulfur Elementals and 3 Karns has been basically the only way I have found to tip the D&T matchup to our favor.

But as for Miracles, Having a flash uncounterable 3/2 that messes up Mentor is very important. It's good at fighting against Jace, Mentor, Counterspells and restricts their timing on terminus. Additionally that matchup is won of the basis of Threats vs Answers. After board, you just are so threat dense, and have a good spread of threats (Creatures, Planeswalkers, and Enchantments) that they simply can't keep up with everything. Their deck is made so that they fall behind, then use terminus as a way to instantly level the field, they play from a position of power. With a card like the Elemental, it's not uncommon to make them Terminus 1 or 2 cards thanks to the killing power of the Goblins, then end step a sulfer elemental and untap and jam a planeswalker. It just puts the opponent in very bad places.

As for K-Return, it's really only good against D&T right now. If you have a goblins player running around, it's good there, but realistically, that matchup is unwinnable.

Also, for what it's worth, Sulfur Elemental often comes in in bad matchups where you have bad lock pieces but nothing to bring in. Not many points in it's favor their, but against something like burn, having access to additional threats is much better than having access to conditional answers.

[Saboo]

I've found that Rolling Earthquake makes the goblins match highly favorable. When it comes to Bridge, I've found it more a crutch than anything. We can usually put enough power in the red zone that the Bridge does more to benefit our opponents than to help us.

[Captain Hammer]

I've found that Rolling Earthquake makes the goblins match highly favorable. When it comes to Bridge, I've found it more a crutch than anything. We can usually put enough power in the red zone that the Bridge does more to benefit our opponents than to help us.

I think maindeck Burning Wish (perhaps in place of Bridge) makes a lot of sense. It can grab Rolling Earthquake and a bunch of other bombs from the board.

[ZTurgeon]

I think maindeck Burning Wish (perhaps in place of Bridge) makes a lot of sense. It can grab Rolling Earthquake and a bunch of other bombs from the board.

It's too slow. You need every card in this deck to do something because so much of the locked shell are do nothings. Spending time to try and burning wish the right thing is normally just worse than trying to apply more pressure and letting your opponent figure out what to do.

[Misdirection]

Deck is definitely gaining in popularity.
It has grown from non-existence (I am the only one playing the deck) to like 10-15% of my local metagame

With its nature as a blood moon deck, the metagame has adjusted to have more basic land decks like burn and uw miracles

[ZTurgeon]

Deck is definitely gaining in popularity.
It has grown from non-existence (I am the only one playing the deck) to like 10-15% of my local metagame

With its nature as a blood moon deck, the metagame has adjusted to have more basic land decks like burn and uw miracles

My current version is minor favorite against burn and a pretty strong favorite against miracles. Moving the bridges to the board and adding quick threats has allowed you to race burn, and present miracles with a must answer card every turn.

[Binkle]

Well, Seeing as that is my exact list, I guess I will do it.

Thank you very much for this!

As a humble noob who's never touched this deck in his life, I confess I'm a little put off by fiery confluence since the PW damage rules change. I'm stoked to see you're not playing 4; how important is the 3rd copy of this card, even?

[Blink]

ZTurgeon i'm wondering what your opinion is on the recent success of Hanweir Garrison. Is token factory 9,10 needed ?

[ZTurgeon]

ZTurgeon i'm wondering what your opinion is on the recent success of Hanweir Garrison. Is token factory 9,10 needed ?

It's not unreasonable. I don't think its quite needed, but it also doesn't seem bad. Just turning the toggle slightly more in favor of aggression.

[Fallen_Empire]

How good is blood sun in the current meta? Seems like there are a lot of basics running around, but being able to turn off fetches still seems really good plus we get to draw one and don't kill our cities. Has anyone done any serious testing with the card?

[ESG]

How good is blood sun in the current meta? Seems like there are a lot of basics running around, but being able to turn off fetches still seems really good plus we get to draw one and don't kill our cities. Has anyone done any serious testing with the card?

I have.

Why Blood Sun fails:

1) It's too slow.

Blood Sun is at its best Turn 1 on the play when your opponent is playing fetchlands or lands that have value due to their abilities. The only real way to hose fetchlands would be to print an anti-fetch Leyline, print zero-mana Stifles, or make Blood Sun cost one mana. At three mana, your opponent has usually cracked one or two fetchlands already, and that's all he will likely need to play Magic -- assuming he's even playing a deck dependent on fetchlands.

2) It's too conditional.

Blood Sun requires your opponent's deck to be full of fetchlands, but a look at Legacy manabases reveals that most decks play about half fetchlands, half non-fetchlands. If your opponent draws at least part of the the non-fetchland half, Blood Sun has done effectively nothing. Perhaps it has disabled one land, likely denying a single shuffle after a Brainstorm. That's not much.

3) It doesn't do enough.

Even though it shuts off your opponent's fetchlands, your opponent is playing Legacy, so his deck's curve is most likely low. This means he's still able to play out one-drops and two-drops and potentially still able to curve out on time. When your opponent draws his dual lands and/or basic lands, Blood Sun won't be doing anything.

4) It doesn't affect the board.

Assuming you draw Blood Sun after Turn 3, it's simply a three-mana cantrip, which is too slow for Legacy.


The fringe benefits of Blood Sun:

Blood Sun makes City of Traitors better, but this is kind of a trap because it makes you play more copies of that traitorous card, and if your attempt at T1 Blood Sun gets countered, you've likely set yourself up to lose the game because your next land drop will cause you to lose the City.


Blood Sun vs. Blood Moon

Blood Sun is better against fetchlands than Blood Moon is against nonbasics, since it makes them produce zero mana instead of one red mana, but the power level of Blood Moon is higher because it hits a greater percentage of lands in your opponent's deck.

[Kreeke86]

Hi All,

I play different versions of mono red prison / dragon stompy for almost 2 years and see it changing from control/lock to quite aggressive. Experimented with actual dragons, wishboard etc.
Below I copied an updated version which is 100% aggro and less prison.

Major changes:

Chandra ==> Karn, Scion of Urza
4 mountains ==> 4 artifact land
No more bridge mainboard ==> extra Captain Lannery Storm for speed and artifact creation

I would like to hear from this community what you think:

Mainboard:
4x city of traitors
4x ancient tomb
4x great furnace
7x mountain

4x chrome mox
4x chalice of the void
4x simian spirit guide
4x blood moon
3x trinisphere
3x fiery confluence
4x magus of the moon
4x karn, scion of urza

4x legion warboss
4x goblin rabblemaster
3x captain lannery storm

Sideboard:
4x ensnaring bridge
4x leyline of the void
4x sulfur elemental
3x scab-clan berserker

Tips and sideboard plans are welcome.

Ruud-Maarten

[frogger42]

Hi All,

I play different versions of mono red prison / dragon stompy for almost 2 years and see it changing from control/lock to quite aggressive. Experimented with actual dragons, wishboard etc.
Below I copied an updated version which is 100% aggro and less prison.

Major changes:

Chandra ==> Karn, Scion of Urza
4 mountains ==> 4 artifact land
No more bridge mainboard ==> extra Captain Lannery Storm for speed and artifact creation

I would like to hear from this community what you think:

Mainboard:
4x city of traitors
4x ancient tomb
4x great furnace
7x mountain

4x chrome mox
4x chalice of the void
4x simian spirit guide
4x blood moon
3x trinisphere
3x fiery confluence
4x magus of the moon
4x karn, scion of urza

4x legion warboss
4x goblin rabblemaster
3x captain lannery storm

Sideboard:
4x ensnaring bridge
4x leyline of the void
4x sulfur elemental
3x scab-clan berserker

Tips and sideboard plans are welcome.

Ruud-Maarten

I hate Lannery Storm. Not a brick house in terms of legacy power. IMO, it's not worth running the Great Furnace x4 just for Karn. With Furnace and City in your opening hand, you can get wasted out of the game easily. Also, be careful against Kolagan's Command; all your threats fall to that easily. I've lost to K Command + Snap + K Command again. Game (shake hand).

If you want the Furnaces, I'd do Storm -> Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Gives you 7-8 reasons to run the extra artifact, and PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).

With PnK, 3-4 Jitte in the SB is better than Sulfur Elemental. A metric fuckton more versatile, and harder for DnT and other decks to remove.

Nobody will like this, but Forcefield can let your Karn-germs attack through a Bridge-like effect. Bouncing a fattie with Dead // Gone is doable, too. (PnK also chumps for a couple turns, woot!)

[Kreeke86]

I hate Lannery Storm. Not a brick house in terms of legacy power. IMO, it's not worth running the Great Furnace x4 just for Karn. With Furnace and City in your opening hand, you can get wasted out of the game easily. Also, be careful against Kolagan's Command; all your threats fall to that easily. I've lost to K Command + Snap + K Command again. Game (shake hand).

If you want the Furnaces, I'd do Storm -> Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Gives you 7-8 reasons to run the extra artifact, and PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).

With PnK, 3-4 Jitte in the SB is better than Sulfur Elemental. A metric fuckton more versatile, and harder for DnT and other decks to remove.

Nobody will like this, but Forcefield can let your Karn-germs attack through a Bridge-like effect. Bouncing a fattie with Dead // Gone is doable, too. (PnK also chumps for a couple turns, woot!)


I agree with you on the points. Valuable feedback, thanks.

What do you mean with this?

PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).
PnK is legendary so that can be targeted by Karakas? And bounced?

Do you know if anyone has experience with 2x Crystal Vein so in total 10x a 2 mana land effect? so 19 lands, 10 x double collerless and 9 normal mountains?

[non-inflammable]

What do you mean with this?
PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).

PnK is legendary so that can be targeted by Karakas? And bounced?


yes, it's legendary and can be bounced but if your opponent does bounce P&K that means you've already gotten two flying tokens.
if your opponent wants to give you two more flying tokens when you RECAST P&K, then they can but that's to your advantage.

it's the "feeling" that P&K is karakas proof that helps since you just recast P&K for more value...

[Kreeke86]

yes, it's legendary and can be bounced but if your opponent does bounce P&K that means you've already gotten two flying tokens.
if your opponent wants to give you two more flying tokens when you RECAST P&K, then they can but that's to your advantage.

it's the "feeling" that P&K is karakas proof that helps since you just recast P&K for more value...

Got it. Great thanks.

Did you test with Crystal Vein. Adding 2 times so you have 19 lands. 9 mountains and 10 2 Collerless mana lands?

[non-inflammable]

Got it. Great thanks.

Did you test with Crystal Vein. Adding 2 times so you have 19 lands. 9 mountains and 10 2 Collerless mana lands?

i didn't test with crystal vein but there were many times i used fast mana (simian spirit or lotus petal) for an early play only to have it countered.
several games after fast mana was used, 4 drops were stuck in my hand and i needed one more mana.
granted, i only lost to BUG control, but i lost to it twice and my opponent even ran wasteland.

this is close to what i ran last week:
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/125478

[Kreeke86]

i didn't test with crystal vein but there were many times i used fast mana (simian spirit or lotus petal) for an early play only to have it countered.
several games after fast mana was used, 4 drops were stuck in my hand and i needed one more mana.
granted, i only lost to BUG control, but i lost to it twice and my opponent even ran wasteland.

this is close to what i ran last week:
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/125478

Nice. Did you try Chaos Warp. Any experience with it?
Why the split in mountain and snow covered mountain?

[non-inflammable]

Nice. Did you try Chaos Warp. Any experience with it?
Why the split in mountain and snow covered mountain?

no on the chaos warp, but the split is a hedge against miracles decks that run predict

[frogger42]

Do you know if anyone has experience with 2x Crystal Vein so in total 10x a 2 mana land effect? so 19 lands, 10 x double collerless and 9 normal mountains?

I've got a slightly different manabase (and angle) to Dragon Stompy. I run 22 land, 4 Chrome and 4 SSG. So some things I noticed with my own manabase:

I run 10 Mountain (plus Chrome and SSG) which is perfect for casting all your R2 effects. When I had 9, my mulligans based on not having red mana jumped up. I never had to mull at 10 Mountain, which seems the sweet spot for me, based on running single R spells.

For my 22 lands, 12 are colorless. So running a few Crystal Vein should be fine. I like the idea because you have the option to crack it for T1 plays, or not. Lotus Petal doesn't have that option. 2 Seems great. That's an opinion without playing it, though.

(FYI I'm not a huge fan of Great Furnace because if you drop it T1, you're going to get Wasted out of the game. For that risk I think you need more synergy.)

My manabase was perfect for a deck that ran almost all CMC2 and CMC3 spells, just 4x CMC4. It's my play preference and philosophy. I don't like mulling a hand where I can play a T1 Chalice but have no other follow-up.

[bruizar]

My list uses Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, Ahn-Crop Crasher and Goblin Cratermaker. This allows me both more explosive plays, better defensive plays, and I can keep applying pressure even when there's a Gurmag Angler staring down at me.

I ended up cutting Ghitu Encampment, but it's noteworthy that this card turns into a Warrior and the first strike comes in handy sometimes.

[frogger42]

My list uses Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, Ahn-Crop Crasher and Goblin Cratermaker. This allows me both more explosive plays, better defensive plays, and I can keep applying pressure even when there's a Gurmag Angler staring down at me.

I ended up cutting Ghitu Encampment, but it's noteworthy that this card turns into a Warrior and the first strike comes in handy sometimes.

Cratermaker is fantastic. Absolutely great, esp for killing Jittes and Swords of Fire and Ice. (Moxen, too.) Najeela I think is way worse than Garrison. Crasher seems really under-powered for Legacy.

[bruizar]

Cratermaker is fantastic. Absolutely great, esp for killing Jittes and Swords of Fire and Ice. (Moxen, too.) Najeela I think is way worse than Garrison. Crasher seems really under-powered for Legacy.

I like the curve on crasher + najeela. Ahn-Crop crasher allows me to push through Gurmag Anglers and Tarmogoyfs without having to sacrifice my board so I'm never pushed into a defensive role. The haste helps a lot. Turn 2 Najeela, Turn 3 Crasher attack = 8 damage, into turn 4 attack with everthing = 12 damage. Najeela turns every other creature in the deck into token generators, including the tokens themselves.

[frogger42]

I like the curve on crasher + najeela. Ahn-Crop crasher allows me to push through Gurmag Anglers and Tarmogoyfs without having to sacrifice my board so I'm never pushed into a defensive role. The haste helps a lot. Turn 2 Najeela, Turn 3 Crasher attack = 8 damage, into turn 4 attack with everthing = 12 damage. Najeela turns every other creature in the deck into token generators, including the tokens themselves.

I'm not a fan of Najeela because she bounces to Karakas, or you get 2-for-1'd off K Command. The goblins at least give you a chance to make a token if your opponent can't kill it on your turn (plus the token has haste, to deal with Lilianas).

Crasher seems like it just deals with certain fatties. That helps Rabble, true, but not if there's a second dork out. I'm not sure Crasher wants to be an aggro synergy piece in a deck with prison pieces and otherwise game-changing 3-drops.

[bruizar]

I'm not a fan of Najeela because she bounces to Karakas, or you get 2-for-1'd off K Command. The goblins at least give you a chance to make a token if your opponent can't kill it on your turn (plus the token has haste, to deal with Lilianas).

Crasher seems like it just deals with certain fatties. That helps Rabble, true, but not if there's a second dork out. I'm not sure Crasher wants to be an aggro synergy piece in a deck with prison pieces and otherwise game-changing 3-drops.

The weakness to karakas is unfortunate but so far I haven't suffered from it. Crasher only really works because of Najeela's tribal synergy. I've evaded not just Gurmag Anglers but also Veteran Explorers that try to chump block. To me it plays an integral part of the strategy because it never lures me into making a mistake by misassigning my role. It feels almost like a burn deck in that sense. i'm not sure whether it's actually better or just a different approach. Just wanted to get it out there and contribute to the hive mind.

[frogger42]

The weakness to karakas is unfortunate but so far I haven't suffered from it. Crasher only really works because of Najeela's tribal synergy. I've evaded not just Gurmag Anglers but also Veteran Explorers that try to chump block. To me it plays an integral part of the strategy because it never lures me into making a mistake by misassigning my role. It feels almost like a burn deck in that sense. i'm not sure whether it's actually better or just a different approach. Just wanted to get it out there and contribute to the hive mind.

Yeah, it's helpful to get different ideas out to try. I played a set of Hazorets instead of Najeela - what I really loved about that was it ate Strixes and Anglers all day long. But when it came time to face DnT, it was a huge 4 mana liability, and I kept siding them out all the time, just because one Karakas would make it so hard to recover. (I side out Chalices and Blood Moons vs DnT, so having 12 cards to take out is too much.) So that's my experience with Karakas. I love some of these Red Legendaries, but it's another nail in your coffin when DnT is a prevalent non-Blue deck.

It seems like Crasher is good synergy - would Jitte be better? More control/prison-y, plus it's better synergy with all the token generators.

[bruizar]

Yeah, it's helpful to get different ideas out to try. I played a set of Hazorets instead of Najeela - what I really loved about that was it ate Strixes and Anglers all day long. But when it came time to face DnT, it was a huge 4 mana liability, and I kept siding them out all the time, just because one Karakas would make it so hard to recover. (I side out Chalices and Blood Moons vs DnT, so having 12 cards to take out is too much.) So that's my experience with Karakas. I love some of these Red Legendaries, but it's another nail in your coffin when DnT is a prevalent non-Blue deck.

It seems like Crasher is good synergy - would Jitte be better? More control/prison-y, plus it's better synergy with all the token generators.

I think Jitte is a great card, haven't played with it for years so I'm a bit lost on where it stands in the meta.

Yesterday I went 3-1 and played another match that I won afterwards with Najeela. I played 1 Hazoret but it was underwhelming last night, but I don't think the card is bad.

1-2 on the draw Death Shadow -> I was on the winning hand in the third game, then stumbled after my Ancient Tomb ate a wasteland and I was stuck on 2 mountains.
2-1 on the draw Death Shadow
2-0 on the draw Mud
2-1 on the play Burn
----
2-1 on the draw Eldrazi

[Medea_]

I just won the Legacy Challenge with Red Prison. I played against combo in 8 of my 10 rounds, so I was highly rewarded for my deck choice. The decklist feels great (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1638313#paper) and is the same one that Butakov played to a 6th place finish a week or two ago. I'd probably swap the Cage for a Lotus Petal, Sorcerous Spyglass, or 3rd Bridge though if I were to run this back.

[Blink]

I just won the Legacy Challenge with Red Prison. I played against combo in 8 of my 10 rounds, so I was highly rewarded for my deck choice. The decklist feels great (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1638313#paper) and is the same one that Butakov played to a 6th place finish a week or two ago. I'd probably swap the Cage for a Lotus Petal, Sorcerous Spyglass, or 3rd Bridge though if I were to run this back.

Good work! What was the issue with cage? Conflict with chalice, were the leylines adequate.....?

[License2pill]

I just won the Legacy Challenge with Red Prison. I played against combo in 8 of my 10 rounds, so I was highly rewarded for my deck choice. The decklist feels great (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1638313#paper) and is the same one that Butakov played to a 6th place finish a week or two ago. I'd probably swap the Cage for a Lotus Petal, Sorcerous Spyglass, or 3rd Bridge though if I were to run this back.

Weree u recording? Would love to see a replay

[Medea_]

@blink

It's not like the card was bad, but I think I need a different card there to improve my other matchups across the board more than I need graveyard hate card #5. The reanimator matchup feels fine, as the generic hate cards plus leyline gives us a fighting chance.

@licensetopill
I didn't record, but I'm going to do a debrief tonight on Twitch at 7:30 PM EST and show the replays (or at least part of them) of a couple of matches. I'll post the Youtube video here tomorrow.

[License2pill]

@blink

It's not like the card was bad, but I think I need a different card there to improve my other matchups across the board more than I need graveyard hate card #5. The reanimator matchup feels fine, as the generic hate cards plus leyline gives us a fighting chance.

@licensetopill
I didn't record, but I'm going to do a debrief tonight on Twitch at 7:30 PM EST and show the replays (or at least part of them) of a couple of matches. I'll post the Youtube video here tomorrow.

Awesome wish I could tune in. Congrats!

[Medea_]

Here's the link to the debrief (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSr3iTH4RZ4&t=235s), which includes some matchup replays.

[J_K_F]

I'm still reading through the whole thread, so forgive me if it was mentioned much earlier and I just haven't gotten to it yet...

But has anyone tried Volcanic Fallout in SB?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Has anyone tried Volcanic Fallout in SB?
It depends on your meta, but Kozilek's Return is generally superior.

[guslandt]

I give Kozilek's Return the slight lead over Volcanic Fallout for no other reason than it does occasionally matter than I only need 1 red to cast Return. Uncounterable plus dealing 2 to opponent is a pretty compelling case for Fallout, and I wouldn't argue against its use.

[Fallen_Empire]

K return can get through a mom that can tap to give protection (colorless spell).

[Medea_]

Also of note, K. Return doesn't play well with chrome mox. It doesn't actually made red if you imprint it.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Also of note, K. Return doesn't play well with chrome mox. It doesn't actually made red if you imprint it.
True! But you're probably taking out CotV or 3ball to side them in.

[Misdirection]

I just won the Legacy Challenge with Red Prison. I played against combo in 8 of my 10 rounds, so I was highly rewarded for my deck choice. The decklist feels great (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1638313#paper) and is the same one that Butakov played to a 6th place finish a week or two ago. I'd probably swap the Cage for a Lotus Petal, Sorcerous Spyglass, or 3rd Bridge though if I were to run this back.

Congratulations to the finish!
How are the Lotus Petal treating you?

To all others red mages here, is Lotus Petal doing a good enough job for you? More fast mana = more explosiveness but meaning more possible flood....

[guslandt]

I’ve been on this deck for a year and a half, and this past weekend I went 10-2 over the course of 5 legacy side events at GP Madison.
I love Lotus Petal because it means more turn 1 3-drops, and also is easy to cast later on when I’m hiding behind a bridge.

My current list is:

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Legion Warboss
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

4 Blood Moon

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Lotus Petal

4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza

The metamorphs are crazy versatile. They’re an extra copy of a lock piece, a second goblin rabblemaster, and sometimes a Griselbrand or Batterskull!

[Octopusman]

@Medea_ if you stuck with Garrison in the SB, would you keep Garrison or consider the new Krenko kingpin?

[Titan2k11]

Hello Medea,

For a while I am playing at my local area red prison in Legacy.

I am really enthousiastic about your performance by winning the MTGO challenge in 02/19/2019.

Also I watched your videos on youtube.

Last sunday(05/19/2019) I played the following list:

Mainboard:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
5 Mountain
5 snow-covered Mountain

4 Chrome Mox
2 Lotus Petal

4 Blood Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion warboss
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Trinisphere
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Fiery Confluence
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the void
1 Hanweir Garrison
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Fiery Confluence
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Abrade

I played 5xMountain and 5xsnow-covered Mountain beacuse I want to make "predict" worse against me.

Before the event I made a little sideboard-guide.

D&T:+2xabrade,+2xsulfur elemental,+1xfiery confluence,+2xensnaring bridge,+1xhanweir garrison,
-4xchalice of the void,-4xblood moon:
D+T with red: ???

Sneak and show:+2xensnaring bridge,+1xhanweir garrison,-3xchandra,torch of defiance,

Grixis-control:+1xhanweir garrison,+3xscab-clan berserker,-2xfiery confluence,-1xPia and Kiran nalaar,-1xHazoret,

ANT: +4xleyline of the void,+3xscab-clan berserker,+1xhanweir garrison,-1xHazoret,-1xPia and Kiran nalaar,-2xfiery confluence,-4xchandra,torch of defiance,

Miracles:+3xscab-clan berserker,+2xsulfur elemental,-2xfiery confluence,-4xchandra,torch of defiance,

Elves:+1xfiery confluence,+3xscab-clan berserker,+2xabrade,-1xPia and Kiran nalaar,-1xHazoret,-4xchandra,torch of defiance,

UW-stoneblade:+2xabrade,+3xscab-clan berserker,+2xsulfur elemental,-2xfiery confluence,-1xHazoret,-4xtrinisphere,

Mono red burn:+1xhanweir garrison,+2xsulfur elemental,+2xabrade,+3xscab-clan berserker,-4xblood moon,-4xmagus of the moon,

BR-reanimator:+4xleyline of the void,-1xPia and Kiran nalaar,-1xHazoret,-2xfiery confluence,

Ub-reanimator: ???

planeswalker 15-post:+2xabrade,+1xhanweir garrison,+1xfiery confluence,+3xscab-clan berserker,+2xsulfur elemental,-4xchalice of the void,-4xtrinisphere,-1xchandra, torch of defiance,

Loam: ???

Lands:+1xhanweir garrison,+3xscab-clan berserker,-4xchandra,torch of defiance,

Eldrazi post:+2xensnaring bridge,+1xhanweir garrison,+2xabrade,-4xtrinisphere,-1xhazoret,

Maverick:+2xabrade,+1xfiery confluence,+2xsulfur elemental,-4xtrinisphere,-1xhazoret,

Grixis delver:+2xabrade,+1xhanweir garrison,-1xhazoret,-2xfiery confluence,

golgari depths:+2xabrade,+1xfiery confluence,+3xscab-clan berserker,-1xHazoret,-1xPia and Kiran nalaar,-4xtrinisphere,

UR-delver:+1xhanweir garrison,+1xfiery confluence,+3xscab-clan berserker,+2xabrade,-4xblood moon,-3xmagus of the moon,

Infect:+1xfiery confluence,+2xabrade,-1xPia and Kiran nalaar,-1xHazoret,-1xhazoret,

Mirror:+1xHanweir Garrison,+2xSulfur Elemental,3+xScab-Clan Berserker,+1xFiery Confluence,+2xEnsnaring Bridge,+2xAbrade,-3xchalice of the void,-4xtrinisphere,-4xblood moon,

Eldrazi stompy:+1xHanweir Garrison,3+xScab-Clan Berserker,+1xFiery Confluence,+2xEnsnaring Bridge,+2xAbrade,-4xchalice of the void,-4xtrinispheere,-1xHazoret,
That was the last tournament in my area.

Here you can find the metagame of the last tournament.

http://winadual.de/?p=1375

My tournament was characterized like this.

Round 1:vs. ANT: WIN:2-1;
Round 2:vs. maverick: WIN 2-0;
Round 3:vs.UW-stoneblade: LOSS 1-2;
Round 4:vs.UW-stoneblade: LOSS 1-2;
Round 5:vs.Eldrazi stompy: LOSS 0-2;
Round 6:vs. UR-delver: WIN 2-0

According this I got some questions:

1.)what do you thing about replacing 1xHanweir garrison by 1xKrenko, Tin Street Kingpin in the sideboard, because it may be better in combination with goblin rabblemaster and legion warboss?
2.)How does your current version with sideboard look like?
3.)May you help me an correct my sideboard-guide?

I wish you a nice week-end and I am glad by looking forward to your answer.

Best regards,

Titan2k11

[Final Fortune]

Do you guys think Alpine Guide is a card this deck could make use of, 2R for a 3/3 creature: Search your deck for a Mountain and put it onto the battlefield. Alpine Guide must attack each turn if able. If Alpine Guide dies, sacrifice a Mountain.


It's technically a 3/3 for 2 and ramps to 2RR on the following turn, seems better than the old Seething Song approach.

[Ace/Homebrew]

It's technically a 3/3 for 2 and ramps to 2RR on the following turn, seems better than the old Seething Song approach.
It's not a 3/3 for 2 because this deck cannot do anything for 1 red mana.* The ramp is nice, but is likely unnecessary given half the deck is mana. The 'must attack' clause is what will probably keep it from being a thing.

*Edit - My comment is based on playing it turn 1. But even playing it later in the game where it could effectively 'cost 2' seems weak against other cards the deck currently plays.

[guslandt]

I'm surprised there hasn't been much discussion here about building this deck with the new Karn, The Great Creator. This list took 2nd place (in Brazil I think):
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22185&d=350169&f=LE

I think it has some real potential. I especially like the 4x Abrade main deck with all the UR Delver running around now. I'm concerned about cutting so many goblins, but with SO MANY Dreadhorde Arcanists decks, I think going back to a more Prison style and away from aggro is worth a try.

Great Creator also allows us to store some artifact pieces in the sideboard.

[frogger42]

I'm surprised there hasn't been much discussion here about building this deck with the new Karn, The Great Creator. This list took 2nd place (in Brazil I think):
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22185&d=350169&f=LE

I think it has some real potential. I especially like the 4x Abrade main deck with all the UR Delver running around now. I'm concerned about cutting so many goblins, but with SO MANY Dreadhorde Arcanists decks, I think going back to a more Prison style and away from aggro is worth a try.

Great Creator also allows us to store some artifact pieces in the sideboard.

Karn is absolutely amazing. I ran a build with 5 equipment, took it all out for Karns, and it's totally busted. Even just Liquimetalling 1-2 basics is nuts. IDK why there's no Jitte in that SB. I haven't posted since no one's really on board with equipment on this thread. Eh.

[Pdingo]

Hei guys

i write it here. I'm selling a complete moon stompy on mtgo. PM if you're interested.

Greets

[Scott]

Robert Beatty took down the 121-player SCG Classic in Pittsburgh (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/Star_City_Games_Classic/2019-06-30_legacy_Pittsburgh_PA_US/1/) yesterday. Beat Miracles, Bomberman, and U/R Delver in the top 8 to win it.

// Creatures (5)
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// Planeswalkers (8)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Karn, the Great Creator

// Lands (19)
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

// Artifacts (17)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Trinisphere

// Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon

// Instants (4)
4 Abrade

// Sorceries (3)
3 Fiery Confluence

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Liquimetal Coating
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Walking Ballista
SB: 3 Scab-Clan Berserker
SB: 2 Boil

[Ace/Homebrew]

List looks interesting, and fun. The move away from Magus feels right given powerful new cards and the banning of DRS.

[frogger42]

I played 8 rds yesterday at a local legacy event. I faced:

Miracles
Mono R Goblins
RW Painter
BR Goblins
4C Aggro Loam
Mono R Moons
UR Delver x2

Blood Moon came out every round except Loam. Anecdotal evidence, but I suspect Moon isn't great in the meta currently.

[frogger42]

Robert Beatty took down the 121-player SCG Classic in Pittsburgh (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/Star_City_Games_Classic/2019-06-30_legacy_Pittsburgh_PA_US/1/) yesterday. Beat Miracles, Bomberman, and U/R Delver in the top 8 to win it.

// Creatures (5)
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// Planeswalkers (8)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Karn, the Great Creator

// Lands (19)
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

// Artifacts (17)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Trinisphere

// Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon

// Instants (4)
4 Abrade

// Sorceries (3)
3 Fiery Confluence

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Liquimetal Coating
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Walking Ballista
SB: 3 Scab-Clan Berserker
SB: 2 Boil


Not to take from his victory, but the T8 lists don't look optimal. Dovin's Veto in Miracles. Swiftspear in UR Delver. The lists from 6th place UR Delver and maybe Bomberman look good (though idk much about Bomberman, just guessing). I question how close we should trust this result.

[bruizar]

Not to take from his victory, but the T8 lists don't look optimal. Dovin's Veto in Miracles. Swiftspear in UR Delver. The lists from 6th place UR Delver and maybe Bomberman look good (though idk much about Bomberman, just guessing). I question how close we should trust this result.

Shouldn't optimal be defined based on the results and quantity of players competing in the tournament? I doubt 121 people were playing rogue decks.

[frogger42]

Shouldn't optimal be defined based on the results and quantity of players competing in the tournament? I doubt 121 people were playing rogue decks.

You’re definitely right about that, that we consider 121 people is a really good pool of players. But, ignoring the DS list, I think 5/7 of the T8 have sub-par builds. Just looking at the maindeck, I didn’t check the SBs. It’s kind of shocking. I’m not sure why that is, but I do know a lot of my legacy buddies skip the SCG classics because of the horrible EV. It’s the worst EV a magic tournament has. Even the side events make more sense to play in.

[frogger42]

I played 8 rds yesterday at a local legacy event. I faced:

Miracles
Mono R Goblins
RW Painter
BR Goblins
4C Aggro Loam
Mono R Moons
UR Delver x2

Blood Moon came out every round except Loam. Anecdotal evidence, but I suspect Moon isn't great in the meta currently.

I think I'm going to take that back. That tournament didn't see much Wrenn and Six, and Moon is a total blowout vs those greedy 3-4C decks. I faced W6 last night, and I think as we go on, there'll be more appearances by W6. The fact that Magus survives W6's minus one, and nullifies the +1, AND also attacks into W6 is absolutely devastating. I think jamming 4x Magus is the way to go.

Magus also survives Force of Negation (insert shrug emoji here). I smashed 4C Delver with a Blood Moon G2, then Magus G3 (though it's probably the only MU where Moon is an auto-win). I disagree with going down on Magus, as I generally find it stronger than Moon - I run equip - so I'll put that opinion out there. I side out Blood Moon before I hit Magus. Still, 8x Moon is the point we run accel, right?

[guslandt]

Surprised this wasn't posted yet. Last weekend's MTGO Legacy Challenge saw this list take 2nd place.
I think 6 moon effects is the minimum in the current 4c meta. I'm worried about losing Ensnaring Bridge from the main. I know Karn gets it, but then it isn't in play until turn 5 at the earliest, which can mean a lot of Delver damage.

// Planeswalkers (8)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Karn, the Great Creator

//Creatures (14)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// Sorceries (3)
3 Fiery Confluence

//Artifacts (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere

//Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon

//Lands (19)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

//Sideboard
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Winter Orb

[Captain Hammer]

Surprised this wasn't posted yet. Last weekend's MTGO Legacy Challenge saw this list take 2nd place.
I think 6 moon effects is the minimum in the current 4c meta. I'm worried about losing Ensnaring Bridge from the main. I know Karn gets it, but then it isn't in play until turn 5 at the earliest, which can mean a lot of Delver damage.

// Planeswalkers (8)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Karn, the Great Creator

//Creatures (14)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// Sorceries (3)
3 Fiery Confluence

//Artifacts (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere

//Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon

//Lands (19)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

//Sideboard
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Winter Orb

That identical list took BOTH FIRST AND SECOND PLACE. It's the best deck in the current Wrenn&Six meta.

Yeah, it would be great if there was room to squeeze Bridges into the maindeck but Fiery Confluence can buy time against aggro decks and it's never a dead card unlike Bridge.

The full 4 Trini and 4 Chalice should give Delver nightmares :)

[Medea_]

For anyone looking to pick up the deck again, I made a video primer about deck selection choices, matchup approaches, and sideboarding. Here's the link! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q957Q5qtS1o)

[bruizar]

Fantastic video

[Saboo]

My current build:

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thunderbreak Regent
1x Hazoret, the Fervent
3x Glorybringer

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere

3x Blood Moon
4x Fiery Confluence

2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain

[bruizar]

My current build:

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thunderbreak Regent
1x Hazoret, the Fervent
3x Glorybringer

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere

3x Blood Moon
4x Fiery Confluence

2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain


Do you have any results to share? I'm curious about the Glorybringers.

[frogger42]

My current build:

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thunderbreak Regent
1x Hazoret, the Fervent
3x Glorybringer

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere

3x Blood Moon
4x Fiery Confluence

2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain

Sarkhan the Masterless?

[frogger42]

Astrolabe makes Moons so so so bad. Which Chalice of the Void shuts off. Which Oko shuts off, and then smashes you even worse.

I'm moving over to Blood Sun, which I'm not super fond of, but it's usually a double Stone Rain on my opponent. (More like Stifle but that's not red.) Any thoughts on how to move forward in the Astrolabe/Oko meta?

[bruizar]

Astrolabe makes Moons so so so bad. Which Chalice of the Void shuts off. Which Oko shuts off, and then smashes you even worse.

I'm moving over to Blood Sun, which I'm not super fond of, but it's usually a double Stone Rain on my opponent. (More like Stifle but that's not red.) Any thoughts on how to move forward in the Astrolabe/Oko meta?

I'm currently playing a RB painter list with REBs, Astrolabe, Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and Angrath's Rampage. It's a different deck but you can learn from it. Rampage is especially effective as it hoses opposing Karn, Oko, Teferi, Jace, True Name Nemesis and the occasional Batterskull / Sword of Fire and Ice. I also suggest 4x Sorcerous Spyglass since you can often wasteland someone on the play with a proactive Spyglass on a fetchland. Spyglass is the cleanest answer because Brazen Borrower needs to target it to get 1 activation out of Oko. The Astrolabe decklists rely very heavily on fetchlands as they require both snow basics and duals.

[frogger42]

I'm currently playing a RB painter list with REBs, Astrolabe, Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and Angrath's Rampage. It's a different deck but you can learn from it. Rampage is especially effective as it hoses opposing Karn, Oko, Teferi, Jace, True Name Nemesis and the occasional Batterskull / Sword of Fire and Ice. I also suggest 4x Sorcerous Spyglass since you can often wasteland someone on the play with a proactive Spyglass on a fetchland. Spyglass is the cleanest answer because Brazen Borrower needs to target it to get 1 activation out of Oko. The Astrolabe decklists rely very heavily on fetchlands as they require both snow basics and duals.

I think you're in the right plan with REBs and Angrath's rampage. I'm not positive about Spyglass, though I totally forgot it, and it definitely merits a consideration. I run 8 spirit guides, so hitting 3 mana T1 for Blood Sun is super viable. And I think vs Oko, the only thing you should name with Spyglass is Oko. That makes things awkward - I hate duress effects because you always tempo yourself. Spyglass would effectively be worse tempo than that. But I'll give it a mull.

I have a RG moons deck I semi-like (I played it at this past Eternal Weekend on camera, wooo!) and I think Sun + Choke is a great way to attack them. But prolly not good enough to really beat Astrolabe + Oko. Mono R has always been a meta deck, and I think the meta zipped us by this year, really really quickly.

[bruizar]

I think you're in the right plan with REBs and Angrath's rampage. I'm not positive about Spyglass, though I totally forgot it, and it definitely merits a consideration. I run 8 spirit guides, so hitting 3 mana T1 for Blood Sun is super viable. And I think vs Oko, the only thing you should name with Spyglass is Oko. That makes things awkward - I hate duress effects because you always tempo yourself. Spyglass would effectively be worse tempo than that. But I'll give it a mull.

I have a RG moons deck I semi-like (I played it at this past Eternal Weekend on camera, wooo!) and I think Sun + Choke is a great way to attack them. But prolly not good enough to really beat Astrolabe + Oko. Mono R has always been a meta deck, and I think the meta zipped us by this year, really really quickly.

Although my painter list suffered a terrible combo match up, I beat all my Oko matches and 3 out of 4 delver matches (should have won all 4, grixis, ur, and a pteramander build, lost against UR once because arcanist took over which I cannot REB). I would consider moving Chalice to the sideboard for a bunch of REBs in Oko match ups. Sometimes you just got to kill your darlings. I also had a singleton chains of mephistopheles in the side for all those cantripping strixes, astrolabes and brainstorms.

[frogger42]

Although my painter list suffered a terrible combo match up, I beat all my Oko matches and 3 out of 4 delver matches (should have won all 4, grixis, ur, and a pteramander build, lost against UR once because arcanist took over which I cannot REB). I would consider moving Chalice to the sideboard for a bunch of REBs in Oko match ups. Sometimes you just got to kill your darlings. I also had a singleton chains of mephistopheles in the side for all those cantripping strixes, astrolabes and brainstorms.

I'm not a huge fan of REB'ing Oko in a Moons/Chalice deck. It feels really narrow. But I do like Spyglass a lot more. I'm trying to come up with ways to deal with Oko, since it's such a huge part of my LGS meta (about 1/3) and it's the main card I can't compete with. I feel the deck can deal with everything else I care for it to deal with (burn, Goblins, eh!)

Again, I'm RG, and these are the best cards I can think of to deal with Broko:

- Sorcerous Spyglass
- Reb/Pyroblast
- Choke/Boil + Blood Sun (restrict mana)
- Hibernation
- Cataclysm

The last two seem solid as they deal with a board state with a ton of Elk on field, too. I feel like R/G should have more ways to deal with nasty Blue cards, but I'm totally coming up short. Other thoughts for SB cards?

[bruizar]

I'm not a huge fan of REB'ing Oko in a Moons/Chalice deck. It feels really narrow. But I do like Spyglass a lot more. I'm trying to come up with ways to deal with Oko, since it's such a huge part of my LGS meta (about 1/3) and it's the main card I can't compete with. I feel the deck can deal with everything else I care for it to deal with (burn, Goblins, eh!)

Again, I'm RG, and these are the best cards I can think of to deal with Broko:

- Sorcerous Spyglass
- Reb/Pyroblast
- Choke/Boil + Blood Sun (restrict mana)
- Hibernation
- Cataclysm

The last two seem solid as they deal with a board state with a ton of Elk on field, too. I feel like R/G should have more ways to deal with nasty Blue cards, but I'm totally coming up short. Other thoughts for SB cards?

Decks that run Oko are immune to mana hate. They play Arcum's Astrolabe, they will just dodge Choke by fetching for a snow-covered forest and casting an Astrolabe. I went through everything there is. Your options are Angrath's Rampage in Rakdos, Spyglass or REB. The only card you could consider if you're playing welder which you are not if you're running dragonstompy, is the immortal sun, and that sucks too because you're better off welding Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Hibernation doesn't actually do much at all plus it's off color (and so is cataclysm).

Even a card like Magmatic Sinkhole doesn't kill Oko.

[frogger42]

Decks that run Oko are immune to mana hate. They play Arcum's Astrolabe, they will just dodge Choke by fetching for a snow-covered forest and casting an Astrolabe. I went through everything there is. Your options are Angrath's Rampage in Rakdos, Spyglass or REB. The only card you could consider if you're playing welder which you are not if you're running dragonstompy, is the immortal sun, and that sucks too because you're better off welding Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Hibernation doesn't actually do much at all plus it's off color (and so is cataclysm).

Even a card like Magmatic Sinkhole doesn't kill Oko.

I included Cataclysm and Hibernation as examples of cards to use outside the box. Neither of them are in my colors. I found a green card I def want to try against Oko, and I suspect if I get it down early enough, it'll be a brick house. Thanks!

[frogger42]

Here's my RG Moons I played Eternal Weekend 2019 in Pittsburgh (I went 7-3 with it, missed out on T8 to Tom, who won the tournament):


4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Taiga
4 Once Upon a Time
4 Land Grant

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Bonecrusher Giant
4 Seasoned Pyromancer
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Hazoret, the Fervent

SB:

4 Faerie Macabre
4 Reclamation Sage
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Walking Ballista
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt


Cut Hazoret for anything else, SoFI should be Jitte, SoLaS should be Sorcerous Spyglass (just for Oko). Like I said, there are so many decks out there that run basics and Astrolabe, that I don't feel confident in this pulling its weight anymore; just putting this up here for people who want to innovate. Thanks!

[tsabo_tavoc]

Here's my RG Moons I played Eternal Weekend 2019 in Pittsburgh (I went 7-3 with it, missed out on T8 to Tom, who won the tournament):

Cut Hazoret for anything else, SoFI should be Jitte, SoLaS should be Sorcerous Spyglass (just for Oko). Like I said, there are so many decks out there that run basics and Astrolabe, that I don't feel confident in this pulling its weight anymore; just putting this up here for people who want to innovate. Thanks!

Deck looks sweet, maximizing the chance to get a Turn 1 lock!
Land Grant does get around Moon, but why would you need G mana then?
Most curious about the Pyromancer, this deck gets no value from the grave, not much either from refilling 2 than other fair decks. Would Rabblemaster have won more games for you?

[frogger42]

Deck looks sweet, maximizing the chance to get a Turn 1 lock!
Land Grant does get around Moon, but why would you need G mana then?
Most curious about the Pyromancer, this deck gets no value from the grave, not much either from refilling 2 than other fair decks. Would Rabblemaster have won more games for you?

Thanks Tsabo! Green is only to cast ESG and Once Upon a Time. I opted for ESG over Louts Petal because it doubles as a body late-game; and Once over 4 basic mountains for the same reason. The core of this deck is basically Mono-R Moons with these swaps.

I played Rabblemaster for quite a few months, and I never found it all that resilient. It’s too fragile for my tastes (K Command, P Fire are the worst esp). Draw 2 from Pyro is actually really amazing - you blow 4 cards on a Karn, it gets Forced, and Pyro reloads you and puts you back in the game. 4 power for 3 mana is weird for this deck, and it lets me fight aggro MUs like Goblins and other bad MUs. The exile ability wrecks FoW too. Its biggest drawback is RR, which can be tough to get without a moon effect. But it’s the odd little effect that fits into odd MUs. I keep wanting to cut it for something more “prison-y” but it’s powerful and imo holds its own easily.

[cris_rj]

There is a discord group for dragon stompy? Dragon stompy comunity os a litle bit dead and the deck has been with some great results online

[Ace/Homebrew]

just putting this up here for people who want to innovate. Thanks!
Once Upon A Time really opens up some fun potential to maximize 3 mana on turn 1. I like the mana core of:

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Once Upon A Time
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Green opens up Veil of Summer for the sideboard. Trinisphere could be very strong too. There's potential here!

[frogger42]

Once Upon A Time really opens up some fun potential to maximize 3 mana on turn 1. I like the mana core of:

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Once Upon A Time
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Green opens up Veil of Summer for the sideboard. Trinisphere could be very strong too. There's potential here!

Thank ye. It's been pretty fantastic. The most awkward part is Land Grant - casting OUAT and hitting Land Grant instead of a land has been brutal. I replaced Grants with fetches. I'm trying Ash Barrens for funsies. Snowko still obliterates the thing.

EDIT: T1 Karn, the Great Creator happens about 1/3 the time you have Karn in your opener. What a beast!

[Ace/Homebrew]

I was going to suggest Wooded Foothills in the mana base, but haven't goldfished a list like it yet.

I've found a Lotus Petal in the sideboard really lets you capitalize on a turn 1/2 Karn by increasing the chance of a next turn Lattice. In theory, LED guarantees it at the cost of going 'all in' on the line...

[cris_rj]

Here's my RG Moons I played Eternal Weekend 2019 in Pittsburgh (I went 7-3 with it, missed out on T8 to Tom, who won the tournament):


4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Taiga
4 Once Upon a Time
4 Land Grant

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Bonecrusher Giant
4 Seasoned Pyromancer
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Hazoret, the Fervent

SB:

4 Faerie Macabre
4 Reclamation Sage
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Walking Ballista
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt


Cut Hazoret for anything else, SoFI should be Jitte, SoLaS should be Sorcerous Spyglass (just for Oko). Like I said, there are so many decks out there that run basics and Astrolabe, that I don't feel confident in this pulling its weight anymore; just putting this up here for people who want to innovate. Thanks!

Played with your list in Cockatrice today. made 3-0 over Dephts, 5c-oco and DnT.
Did you make any chances is this list? maybe it has a good potencial by mixing green stompy with moons effect.

[frogger42]

I was going to suggest Wooded Foothills in the mana base, but haven't goldfished a list like it yet.

I've found a Lotus Petal in the sideboard really lets you capitalize on a turn 1/2 Karn by increasing the chance of a next turn Lattice. In theory, LED guarantees it at the cost of going 'all in' on the line...

The SB is so tight I can't even run Sword of Fire and Ice, which I used to run for True-Name Nemesis. Now it's Sorcerous Spyglass specifically for Oko. Karn into Liquimetal Coating is plenty beastly, esp considering I usually jam Karn off a Sol land and a Chrome if I'm lucky. I can basically always cast Liquimetal, Lattice is too much of a stretch for T2.


Played with your list in Cockatrice today. made 3-0 over Dephts, 5c-oco and DnT.
Did you make any chances is this list? maybe it has a good potencial by mixing green stompy with moons effect.

I mentioned a few changes in the posts above. I'm not sure where the manabase will settle, but it's worth experimenting a bit. But keep in mind, CMC4 on T1 is pretty viable, so if you can think of something in R or G that will immediately prison or affect the opponent, put it on the list to try. I'm attempting Thought-Knot Seer but it upsets the manabase; that said, it's won me quite a few games on cockatrice. I have yet to try Karn, Scion of Urza mostly because I don't think Great Furnace is great in this deck.

Beware of Back to Basics.

[frogger42]

http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Kukka-Coppercoat-Outcast-265x367.jpg?x96163

No further comment.

In case it doesn't show for you: http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/lukka-coppercoat-outcast/

[Ace/Homebrew]

Comment further! I saw it too, but don't think it'll ultimately change Legacy (or this deck) in a significant way...

Trying to think of a deck tuned to abuse the new planeswalker, I'm imagining a mono-red build with Magus, Rabble, and Bonecrusher as the creature fodder. Then a 1-of monster (Emrakul? Griselbrand? Whatever, probably doesn't matter for this conversation).

The +1 and -7 do almost literally nothing. So it basically reads:

:3::r::r: Sorcery
Sacrifice a creature, search your library for Emrakul and put her into play.

Is that what the deck was missing?

[frogger42]

Comment further! I saw it too, but don't think it'll ultimately change Legacy (or this deck) in a significant way...

Trying to think of a deck tuned to abuse the new planeswalker, I'm imagining a mono-red build with Magus, Rabble, and Bonecrusher as the creature fodder. Then a 1-of monster (Emrakul? Griselbrand? Whatever, probably doesn't matter for this conversation).

The +1 and -7 do almost literally nothing. So it basically reads:

:3::r::r: Sorcery
Sacrifice a creature, search your library for Emrakul and put her into play.

Is that what the deck was missing?

This will not change any legacy deck other than my own. Looks 110% perfect for it.

Double Natural Order seems decent to me. The +1 is awesome, other than maybe hitting Emrakul x1.

[frogger42]

:3::r::r: Sorcery
Sacrifice a creature, search your library for Emrakul and put her into play.

Is that what the deck was missing?

I played against BG Lurrus junk and Emrakul made 3 appearances in 2 games. Seems really good against non-blue fair MUs. I took a round and lost a round vs UR Delver. Not "what the deck was missing," but I think Lukka's could be the nuts with Chalice esp. I don't see any reason not to run a powerful card.

[frogger42]

I take it no one's interested in updating the deck for the current meta?

[FTW]

This 5-0 list seems good:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3190504#paper

Maindeck Spyglass for Oko, Marit Lage, and friends.

[Reeplcheep]

This 5-0 list seems good:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3190504#paper

Maindeck Spyglass for Oko, Marit Lage, and friends.

I do like the list a lot but the 1 of confluence seems strange, would rather it be 4th karn or 4th giant.

[BirdsOfParadise]

I do like the list a lot but the 1 of confluence seems strange, would rather it be 4th karn or 4th giant.
Maybe it’s a way to break stalemates with the -9 ability on Chandra, Heart of Fire.

[FTW]

Maybe it’s a way to break stalemates with the -9 ability on Chandra, Heart of Fire.

That was my guess. Otherwise Chandra has 0 targets. Plus it's not a bad card in general.

[Reeplcheep]

That was my guess. Otherwise Chandra has 0 targets. Plus it's not a bad card in general.

Why is heart of fire chandra being played over 6 cmc uncounterable one? uncounterable one is at least not totally embarassing vs oko/uro and can handle goyfs/arcanists.

But the ultimate is definitely the reason for the 1-of, good catch

[BirdsOfParadise]

That was my guess. Otherwise Chandra has 0 targets. Plus it's not a bad card in general.
Is Bonecrusher Giant not a legal target? I don't know how Adventure cards work when they're in the GY/library.

OK, I answered my own question (and you were correct of course):
"While Beanstalk Giant is on the battlefield, just ignore the Adventure and all its text. While the card is in your hand, your graveyard, your library, even exile, it has only the characteristics of the creature, not the Adventure. For example, if you cast a spell that lets you search your library and find a creature card, you can find Beanstalk Giant. But if you cast a spell that lets you search your library and find an instant or sorcery card, you won't be able to find Fertile Footsteps."
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/throne-eldraine-mechanics-2019-09-04

[frogger42]

This 5-0 list seems good:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3190504#paper

Maindeck Spyglass for Oko, Marit Lage, and friends.

Seems pretty standard. With Muxus mucking about, Blood Moon sounds even worse in the meta. Good on him for the 5-0, but I really don't feel comfortable sleeving this one up.

I haven't played Spyglass MD yet. It looks decent T1 on the play, sinkhole your opponent most likely, but how good is it after your opponent gets a turn? I'm just curious. Like I said, I haven't played it other than to Karn it out.


I do like the list a lot but the 1 of confluence seems strange, would rather it be 4th karn or 4th giant.

Confluence x1 seems bad to draw when you want to +1 Chandra to draw three cards. I think the 2 Chandra should be Karn and Bonecrusher (that card is a BEAST) and Confluence could be a 4th Magus if you really find it all that powerful.

[frogger42]

Anyone playing Eternal Weekend on MTGO this weekend? I played 4 leagues and faced RUG Delver at least 5 times. I think UR or Grixis Delver another 2-3 times. I think I saw Astrolabe in a Yorion deck once; any thoughts as to sleeving this up?

[Captain Hammer]

Has anyone tried out the modal double faced lands in the deck?

Shatterskull Smashing
Song-Mad Treachery
Spikefield Hazard
Valakut Awakening

all seem quite good at improving consistency to avoid mana flood/mana screw.

[frogger42]

Has anyone tried out the modal double faced lands in the deck?

Shatterskull Smashing
Song-Mad Treachery
Spikefield Hazard
Valakut Awakening

all seem quite good at improving consistency to avoid mana flood/mana screw.

Shatterskull Smashing is amazing, and it 5-0'd a league or two already. I'm a huge fan of it, and I think maybe Valakut Awakening should be played in mono-R, too. I'm a fan of upping the mana count with these cards so your deck won't need to mulligan as often. Shatterskull should be at least a x3 imo; it's a land that kills Delver. Not many of those in Blood Moon.

[Reeplcheep]

Pelakka Predation has been quite good in my deck; the stronger spells might be better than the untapped one in stompy shells.

Chrome mox & no 1 drops removes a lot of the opportunity cost of running a tapped land.

[Captain Hammer]

Pelakka Predation has been quite good in my deck; the stronger spells might be better than the untapped one in stompy shells.

Chrome mox & no 1 drops removes a lot of the opportunity cost of running a tapped land.

You make a good point.

I think a 2/2 split of Valakut Awakening and Shatterskull makes a lot of sense as a starting point. Maybe even a Song Mad Treachery in the board vs Show and Tell decks

[Ace/Homebrew]

What the f?

Moon Stompy is a DTB in the era of perfect mana and snow basics?

Way to go big guy!

[Clark Kant]

What the f?

Moon Stompy is a DTB in the era of perfect mana and snow basics?

Way to go big guy!

Moon Stompy has been putting up solid results since Fireflux Squad got printed. Hope it will end up as a DTB again soon.

The below list just came 2nd in the challenge, piloted by McGuireCJ

Creature (24)
4 Bonecrusher Giant
4 Fireflux Squad
4 Fury
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Sorcery (4)
4 Shatterskull Smashing

Artifact (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere

Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon

Land (17)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Trinisphere
4 Dead // Gone
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Magus of the Moon

Most verisons of the above list play Anje’s Ravager or Kiran and Pia Nalaar or Seasoned Pyromancer or Hanweir Garrison or Magus of the Moon in the flex slots but Fury and Bonecrusher seems like solid inclusions here for the current meta.

The one other popular variant of this deck is the planeswalker variant utilizing Chandra and Karn instead of all these aggro creatures.

[FTW]

This deck is funny:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2022-04-17#momo_th_place

13 big mana wincons that can't be countered (and 3 Fry SB). Sure awkward for those 7 Force + 4 Pyroblast/Prismatic Ending decks. Also RIP Shivan Dragon

I am shocked that 0 Bonecrusher Giant is optimal though. It must be better than some of the other midgame stabilizing tech.

[Octopusman]

Been a while.
Are we really paying 3 life for a mountain. Aka we need that much overloaded planeswalker removal?
4 fury isn’t enough?

I’d like to discus Shivan Devastator.
In a vacuum, where you resolve a moon or chalice turn 1 and then play a turn 2 rabblemaster or a 4/4 devastator, rabblemaster wins the damage race and enables cool stuff like fireflux squad (which you can’t run squad and devastator obviously).
However, I’m thinking about games where a couple of damage… or 6-7+ damage can finish the game if the don’t have an answer. Haste is really important and the flexible mana cost gives it a lot of lines imo. Imaging sometimes mid-late game you just drop a huge devastator and win immediately or in 2 turns.

Thanks for reading and appreciate everyone still contributing.

[FTW]

Been a while.
Are we really paying 3 life for a mountain. Aka we need that much overloaded planeswalker removal?
4 fury isn’t enough?

It's a Mountain that pitches to Chrome Mox and Fury. It also topdecks much better than Mountain.

That means it's a way to cheat up on total mana sources (more red sources & higher opening hand consistency) without mana flood (what happens if you just add a bunch of lands to a stompy deck with no card selection). Black Stompy runs double-faced-lands for the same reason.

[Fox]

Like @FTW is talking about, it's raw CA. You mulligan less + don't waste draw steps on late game do-nothings. It is relatively rare to have to shock this land into play untapped. The general opener is ETB tapped + pass or put on a Chrome Mox or in a sequence like Tomb -> City -> big play -> ETB tapped.

A good exercise is to name off every single non-xerox [non-cantrip cartel] deck you can think of that checks one of these boxes:
A) green
B) big blue mana
C) big red mana

^with very few exceptions, they're all running land-spells (which includes channel lands). The reason we have to add 'big mana' prefix to red and blue is that Shatterskull and Otawara are more expensive than Boseju.

[Clark Kant]

ChatGPT, build me an update of the classic Dragon/Moon Stompy deck from a decade ago, but throw some actual dragons back into the deck...


//Dragon Theme
2 Invasion of Tarkir
2 Shivan Devastator
1 Terror of the Peaks
1 Goldspan Dragon
1 Atsushi, the Blazing Sky
1 Avaricious Dragon
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Karn's Sylex
1 Dragon's Rage Channeler

//Red Staples
4 Fury
4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
4 Blood Moon
2 Bonecrusher Giant
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Magus of the Moon

//Mana
1 Seething Song
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Shatterskull Smashing
1 Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance
7 Mountain

Sideboard:
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Dead/Gone
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Boil
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Into the Fire
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void


Ok, that list looks pretty awful. Does anyone have anything better, but a list that plays some actual dragons.

[FTW]

Not bad for AI!

I wonder if it has some rationale for moving Chalice to the SB and maindecking Bolts, based on what Initiative decks are doing. The dragon part is a mess. Understandably it doesn't have much to work with in terms of proven legacy results, but it did pick out a random assortment of dragons on curve that appear Legacy playable. Not bad at all.

More traditional approach:

//Dragons: 8
2 Invasion of Tarkir
2 Atsushi, the Blazing Sky
2 Terror of the Peaks
2 Glorybringer

//Prison: 10
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Magus of the Moon

//Red Staples: 14
4 Fury
4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
2 Bonecrusher Giant

//Mana: 28
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Shatterskull Smashing
1 Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance
7 Mountain

//Sideboard: 15
3 Dead/Gone
2 Karn's Sylex
2 Fiery Confluence
1 Into the Fire
3 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void


There aren't really playable dragons below 4 mana. Shivan Devastator was a respectable attempt - there isn't much else. So for curve reasons you need to keep low cmc staples (prison pieces, Fable, then probably Rabblemaster or Bonecrusher Giant to have some gas at 2R). Dragons would replace high CMC slots. But Fury and Initiative are still better than any dragons you could run, so those occupy some high cmc slots too. That doesn't leave a lot of room for dragons. 8-10 seems right.

Maybe instead of Bonecrusher/Rabble you just play Seething Song to ramp into 5 mana dragons? That's what the old deck did.

[z0anthr0pe]

The prison pieces would probably allow the seething song / dragon plan to work ok. Might have to try this and see if it's worth replacing the usual goblins.

[Dandalf]

I've seen cursed mirror showing up in a few lists recently. Can anyone enlighten me about what this card is for? Is it to keep pace with Reanimator or something?

Thanks!