[Deck] Dragon Stompy [Archive] - Page 4

ForlornEgoist

03-27-2012, 07:55 PM

@ Wereodile:

If you're looking to resolve issues within your current meta I can certainly make suggestions, however I'm looking more at unknown metas/problem MU's/decks-to-expect at SCG/GP/Misc. Legacy events. The recent T8 in Indianapolis had 2 Mavericks, 1 Dredge, 1 Solidarity, 2 UW Stoneblade, 1 UR Delver, 1 Canadian Threshold. Frankly in the metas I've seen at least spread around my own area Maverick/Delver/UW Stoneblade have been rather prevalent, and as far as combo I've been seeing more and more Solidarity than anything else. Honestly, at this moment the meta has shifted away from decks which would warrant board sweeps like Pyroclasm/Firespout/Powder Keg/Ratchet Bomb. I, honestly, took out my Bombs from the SB nearly 6 months ago and haven't been punished for it thus far. Truthfully the average meta in its current form is more reliant on equipment/1-2 efficient beaters with spell back up than it does a swarm of tokens/creatures, and those somewhat more annoying creatures somewhat get resolved with the next suggestion.

@ heroicraptor:

Sulfur Elemental actually sounds like quite a legitimate card to consider once again for our deck. Part of the reason I've been so optimistic for Etched Champion is its ability to get around Mom and deal with KotR/Equipped Creatures, but the Elemental is a great alternative for people not running the artifact build like I am. Flash/Split Second essentially means it auto-resolves + means you don't have to eat up your own turn to cast it. Kills off Mom and Tokens via Lingering Souls which both are highely relevant, Mom moreso, in the Maverick MU. I never actually found need to use the Elemental myself as before these recent sets I never played DS when the meta was rampant with KotR-decks however perhaps someone else can provide experience with the card.

EDIT: @ Zuppon:

Sorry, I was typing a reply in the box and it appears you made a post before I finished mine, so I only just now saw your list.

Your list is rather standard for a Hellbent list (ah, the good ol' days) but I do have a few suggestions. Firstly, drop the Rakdos Pit Dragon. I know all about the amazing blow-outs of your opponent where you can Double Strike for 10-12+ however those rare instances don't make up for his inherent weaknesses. Firstly, 2RR is annoying to cast, particularly when 1/2 your mana base is Sol lands. Secondly, due to how mana intensive he is to make him something worthwhile you need to, on average, save RR to give him flying and/or invest several additional R to firebreathe him to a level that can kill creatures (this investment is especially heavy with all the static buffs from the equipment-heavy meta). What this means is that, pending you don't have Hellbent you're using up mana that could otherwise go towards giving you it. The final and perhaps most relevant weakness is his 3/3 body. Maverick and UR Delver are the DTB at the moment. Maverick has Mom/Equipment/Exalted via Hierarch/Qasali, so even in the worst of circumstance they can always trade with your RPD. UR delver can either sac a Delver, or use burn/Snapcaster recursion to kill of your RPD with ease. In either MU your RPD does little to affect the game.
Moltensteel Dragon, however, is the exact same cost (at 4cc pending you pay Phyrexian which I almost always do), is a 4/4 so he sits above burn, can be cast off 2 Sol lands, and has Flying which means after that initial investment you can start casting other threats. I know, that 4 life can be scary at times, but when you're not relying on mana everytime to make him good he becomes well worth the life.

Taurean Mauler

Works good for non-Song, low curve builds like your own as he fits nicely at a low curve and can get stupid big if cast early, however he takes a great deal of turns to become a threat. Maverick Mom/Maze both of which negate him as an offensive/defensive creature, and while hes slightly more relevant against UR Delver, they have stupid redundancy for counters/burn.

@ x8 Moon:

This actually makes some sense in your build as because you don't need to rely so heavily on Sol lands you can abuse their power more. However, as I said in my rather long post just above, the meta as it stands doesn't get punished that heavily by Moons. Yea, Dredge does, which is great, but Maverick/UW Stoneblade/UR Delver all have a decent number of basics to rely on, Delver only needs 1-2 U/1 R source to play the entire deck and Maverick has Birds/Hierarch to rely on with Solidarity just laughing that you wasted a turn casting Moon. Ultimately, Moon just isn't devastating.

@ No Seething Song

I've playtested/Meta-ed/debated with NecroYawgmoth long and hard and, although a Songless build is intriguing, thusly I've not seen it have any sort of success. Dragon Stompy's power comes in the early game. We use our stupid-powerful acceleration (SOL/Mox/SSG/Song) to drop several lock pieces/threats and attempt to win the game asap. Our goal isn't to take it to the mid-late game. We want to win now! We have no late game plans. No grandios board sweep, no amazing cantrips, we actually have a higher loss rate the longer the game progresses. Taking out acceleration which makes 5cc cards reasonable only hurts you in the long run, vis-a-vie my next point.

@ Batterskull

This is one of the most relevant cards for our deck as it recovers life loss, lets any creature, even SSG/Magus, become annoying threats, as well as providing said creature with Vigilance. Although this excels at being a mid-late game card (which I just argued against above) having Songs means you can drop this all-the-more earlier where it can be especially punishing.

@ Mountain Yeti

Good chap. Amazing card against Maverick. Well played. Now if we could just get some equipment on him... :D

@ Gathan Raiders

Fits nicely into your mana curve, but really, what're you expecting to accomplish with a 3/3-5/5 thats dependant on you throwing away every card you have in your hand? With equipment now at the forefront hes not going to be killing anything anytime soon and, although he fits at that nice 3 curve, tbh since he provides no utility hes just deadweight.

I realize you're trying to return DS to its roots and make it more efficient when it comes to the mana curve but DS's primary strength comes from just that: abusing acceleration other decks can't particularly use, and using said acceleration to make otherwise bad cards insanely powerful. By removing acceleration, you're crippling the decks power, and by using creatures like RPD/Gathan which aren't fixed to dealing with equipment you're essentially tying one hand behind your back. I don't want to keep you from exploring you're own particular take on DS, however even with Yeti/Mauler you're fighting an uphill battle against the current meta.

If you're set on this list, here are my suggestions in keeping with your Songless plan:

-4 RPD
-4 Gathan
-1/2 Blood Moon

+4 Moltensteel
+ 1/2/3 Manriki-Gusari
+3-4 Lord of SP

The Lord, while still annoyingly intensive, at least becomes a perma 6/6 after the investment with late-gate utility if you level him. The Manriki will enable you to essentially negate the equipment threat of your opponents. In fact, if you are seriously attached to the RPD you could even just run Manriki's with him as the Manriki does give a +1/+2 buff.

Well, hope that helps.

Forlorn Egoist

Zupponn

03-27-2012, 08:05 PM

Sulfur Elemental seems bad to me. It pumps and doesn't kill any creature that has a toughness greater than 2. Maybe it should be used mainly for an alpha strike to take out 1 toughness defenders like Mother and Thalia.

Now that I think of it, did anyone ever test Hero of Oxid Ridge?

ForlornEgoist

03-27-2012, 08:28 PM

Hey, Zuppon, I just edited my post responding to your list, check it out.

The problem with Hero of Oxid Ridge is that our problem white creatures are KotR/Mom/Stoneforge. Once any creature has equipment on it it becomes a viable blocker, thus negating Hero.

Forlorn Egoist

Zupponn

03-28-2012, 07:42 PM

Ok. I just saw your post. I'm gonna try and replace the Pit Dragons with Moltensteels and the Raiders with LoSPs. It never really occurred to me that those 2 cards wouldn't be necessary.:smile: Manriki seems like a SB card, though, and I'd rather just run Jitte for the added utility it offers. I also still want to see if DS can be good without Seething Song. I think that just having 4 creatures in its place would be better to try and flood the field with dudes rather than throw some guy out really fast. If we focus on having bigger creatures than our opponents, then I think that speed would be less necessary.

Also, on the note of Sulfur Elemental, if we run Anarchy in the board, wouldn't that just be better?

0dysseus

03-29-2012, 09:18 PM

...I also still want to see if DS can be good without Seething Song. I think that just having 4 creatures in its place would be better to try and flood the field with dudes rather than throw some guy out really fast. If we focus on having bigger creatures than our opponents, then I think that speed would be less necessary.

Don't necessarily throw some one guy out really fast with your song. Throw 2 things. Chalice - Trini. (Trini always second:)) Chalice - Mauler. Moon - chalice. Kargan - Trini. Magus - Jitte.

If the opponent counters the song, it is the same as countering one of your 4 extra threats. If he doesn't...well guess what: double - trouble. And one or two rounds earlier, of course.

That's how I play Song. I never do the "ramp out a turn one Slogger" thing, or play a single thing with Song, unless I can't do otherwise, or if one or two lockpieces have already resolved.

Remember Force of Will's blue card discard alternative cost...would you say that is really card disadvantage? No, you wouldn't. Same with Song I guess..

I think the only difference here is that we (the red guys) play actively (dust in the face and punch same turn), and the blue guys play reactively (counter out of nowhere).

Cut it and test...only by testing did I realise the difference. And if you find a better solution, please tell me asap:D There's a tournament here on Saturday.

But one thing is for certain: Speed is always good, whether you play vs aggro or control or combo.

I made a third list. Also non hell-bent. I call it "the reliable" list. It excludes the hellbent guys, the werewolves and the Maulers. Creatures that you can't predict how large they will be.
This list includes lots of board control - damage to the opponent:

2 Umezawa's Jitte,

3 Arc-Sloggers and
2 Jaya Ballard.

The rest of my 21 creatures are:

the 4 Magus and 4 SSG,
2 Revokers (tired of them being extra useful on half of the matches and on the rest doing nothing),
1 Moltensteel Dragon (don't want to see him more than once),
2 Kargan Dragonlord,
3 Lords of Shatterskull Pass

8 Moons total main and 3 Trinis, which may change to 7 -4.

Sideboard:

1 Moon/Trini
2 Phyrexian Revokers
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Ratchet Bomb
1 Anarchy
3 Red Elemental Blast

I wonder how good would Boldwyr Heavyweights be (SB of course) against burn, combo, or decks with weenies.
Quite a shitty choice vs many decks with large or "tricky" threats, but I'm always trying to think of ways to make DS deal damage even faster (and even more reliably).

Zupponn

03-29-2012, 11:18 PM

Taking some suggestions and ideas from here, I've been running this list on MTGO with some good success:

4x Mountain Yeti
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Lord of Shatterskull Pass
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Moltensteel Dragon
2x Hellrider

4x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Trinisphere
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Blood Moon

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain

Sideboard:
4x Anarchy
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Pyrokinesis
3x Manriki-Gusari

Yeti and Jitte have outperformed my expectations and I upped them from 3 to 4 because of it. LoSP is what he's always been: a solid beater who's oftentimes bigger than Goyf. Moltensteel, like 0dysseus said, is good, but worse in multiples, so I pulled one out, leaving 3. I put Manriki in the SB because the deck can have trouble against Stoneblade and Batterskull in particular. I also want to test Hellrider as he seems like a really good card for this deck, being a 3/3 hasty creature that hits for 4 and gives us a little reach. I haven't actually played him yet, but there have been times that I have wanted a hasty dude to come out, grab a Jitte and swing to dodge removal and get Jitte online. Also, Mauler turned out to be unreliable, just like 0dysseus said, so he got the axe.

0dysseus

03-30-2012, 08:45 AM

Hellrider seems like he will attack only to sacrifice himself and shock the opponent. Aaah...If, only if that damage was dealt to creatures, he'd be a LOT better.

I'd suggest: -2 Hellrider, +2 Kargan Dragonlord.
You surely can support them with your 8 Moons!

I like your "always have a Jitte at hand" idea. Of course a single Needle can take them all out, but the opponent won't know you dedicated 4 slots on Jitte, so he might name Lord, or Moltensteel. And there's always chalice at 1 of course, if you play first.

ForlornEgoist

03-30-2012, 03:47 PM

But tbh, how many people really SB in Needle/Revoker against us? I don't think that many people realize just how heavily our deck can sometimes rely on said equipment, and since Dragon Stompy is rarely played most people aren't even away of what to name. Yea, they might know about Kargan or Shatterskull after we play them G1, but realistically its assumed we'll essentially never get to their ultimates so the opponent is just looking at another creature that dies to every piece of removal or can be answered by a bigger threat of their own.
I don't think I've ever seen someone SB in Needle/Revoker against me. oO

I definitely approve of the x4 Jitte. I myself am running 3 and I absolutely love to see them every game. Its the best piece of removal for our deck, and making our SSG/Magus into threats is always nice, especially since I myself am much less reliant on them.

Forlorn Egoist

Zupponn

04-01-2012, 03:50 AM

I keep trying different things out in my list and right now have cut the Moltensteels, Hellriders, and Yetis for 4x Flametongue Kavu, 4x RPD, and 1x Anger. I've found that I've really liked having the Kavus against the more creature-based decks right now like Maverick and Stoneblade. For some reason I just seem to like RPD more than Moltensteel. The life loss from Moltensteel has lost me games, so I'm liking it less and less as I go. Anger I've wanted to try for a while as it seems pretty good with a Jitte and just running into combat naked. Next turn hasty Flametongue Kavu?:smile:

0dysseus

04-02-2012, 06:25 AM

I tried my "reliable" list (I describe it on the previous page) on the tournament. I finally played with 10 Mountains, 4 Trinis and 7 Moons main. Plus a Blood Moon sb. The full-foul package of hate.

Arc-slogger, Lord, Jaya, Jitte just kicked ass in each game, whether it was vs monocolored decks or decks an early Moon could handle (if I played first and no basic was fetched).

I beat Merfolk 2-0, and then we played another one and won that too. He played blue-white but I got him. Moon, Slogger and Lord were beasts. Those 2 fatsos cleared the board, once in each of the 2 games.

Game 2 I lost 1-2 vs Thopter - Sword of the Meek deck...and that was close. On the game I won, he Chilled me 2nd turn:)

Game 3 I won 2-0 vs doomsday combo. Highlight: he silences me for two rounds, but I keep leveling kargan dragonlord, who makes the kill. Next game I resolved a trini and a chalice, and all went well.

Game 4 I'd probably win 2-1 vs white-endless-life-deck. We were 1-1, an third game it ended a tie...the time was up. Jaya could burn him before he'd do the Nomads En-kor - Task Force - gain life card combo, if we had a couple more rounds. But the time was up and I had to leave. So just because I liked the concept of his deck, and maybe because I had delayed him a little, I gave him game 3, wishing him good luck!

(Game 5 I was gone)

More highlights:

- Revokers and other artifacts ignoring Chill.
- Early Trinispheres making the game slow just for the one-side (not mine:) and without the anxiety of getting hellbent with trini connected.
- Board control cards -that can deal fast dmg too, 2 in 1. (Sloggers, Lords, Jayas, Jittes)
- Just 2 Revokers main for the first game, 4 for the second if needed.

Missplays:

- Attacking with Jaya and level 0 Kargan, when Merfolk's board was clear, but he had charged up Vials.

- Not attacking Tezzeret with Revoker and Magus because he had a 5-5 artifact as a bodyguard. Notice here that my Revoker was disabling Thopter Foundry, but I had no other choice, I should have attacked, losing Revoker and Magus slowing down Tezzeret. He didn't have sword of the Meek yet.

- Not checking if the life-gain guy would lose by library death first, even though he had 500,000 life! He did play fetchlands..

Maybe I'll edit this post, to add more play mistakes, highlights, and sideboard choices if I remember any.

I was happy, my list worked well. And I had fun. I had the feeling I could even win the tournament, packing all those large guys that bombed the board or the opponent!

Zupponn: I'm really curious about the games that you lost due to Moltensteel's cost.

Please tell me, did that happen when you had to cast a second one?

Just one Moltensteel in the entire deck has been working very well for me!
Plus 2 Kargan Dragonlords.

Zupponn

04-02-2012, 01:40 PM

Octopusman

04-03-2012, 04:10 AM

Getting caught up on the thread.

It doesn't look like anyone is testing sword of war and peace since I was touting it a while ago. I'm surprised, seeing as how pro-white is more relevant than ever and the pro-red is better due to RU(G) Delver/burn popularity.

Another fellow was talking about just making the fastest DS deck possible. I also haven't seen much Priest of Urabrask in recent posts.

I'm going to modify my list so I won't bother posting but I'll give my 2cents. I'm not a fan of werewolves or other ambitiously costed 4/5CMC "bombs" that aren't really that reliable or great. DS is tricky enough (especially hellbent) without also having to pay that your opponent lets it flip. Kruin Outlaw could have been a different story had it costed 2R.
I'm torn on moltensteel dragon vs rakdos pit dragon.
For me, it's not just about having 4 toughness to survive bolt. If I don't play rakdos pit dragon I'm likely to not want to play gathan raiders either. Gathan raiders are so good in the hellbent list you might as well run rakdos pit dragon.
Even with Moltensteel, not having gathan raiders makes me concerned about the beef needed to seal the deal.

With DS, I honestly feel that if you're not running seething song and you're running lord of shatterskull pass you're doing it wrong if you are able to level him up to 6. Also, do you really find yourself having so many threats that the werewolf's buff adds that much damage? Given their equal vulnerability, questionable flipping nature at their CMC, and their cmc in general, I just feel other options are better.
DS wants to finish games quickly. It quickly runs out of gas with its abominable card disadvantage and lack of threat density (admit it, a wasteland on your tomb or saccing your City of Traitors has cost you games more than once).

Obviously, Priest of Urabrask is not a scary creature. However, I feel that it supports what Dragon Stompy wants to do, which is apply pressure as fast as possible. Plus, it's the nuts with equipment (meaning being able to cast/equip faster).

Captain obvious here, but in the early game you want to play a lockpiece and then win before they can recover. I'm pretty comfortable saying that if they can answer the lockpiece and your threats you're likely going to lose. DS only survives in the long game if they get lucky topdecks post board.

Priest of Urabrask and Sword of War and Peace have been more than amazing.
Trinishpere has always been a topic of conversation but I'm a huge advocate. I've rode a couple of priests and a magus of the moon under trinisphere to victory many times. Sowp gives us relevant protection and perhaps the most Dragon Stompy oriented triggered ability yet. Swinging for 10 with a magus of the moon while they have a fist full of cards will make a believer out of anyone.
The priests get more bodies on the field without slowing down the resolution of important lock bombs or other threats like gathan raiders. Let's say they answer your magus of the moon or gathan raiders. It's still easy to get a 2-4-6-maybe 8 damage in with that priest.

Dragon Stompy needs to race. There are just too many situations that exist in Legacy that will make a Dragon Stompy player scoop.
Unfortunately, I hate to say that going second is a major blow to this deck. They say that if the die roll is so important, then the deck has bad design. I believe this is true and displays Dragon Stompy's swingy nature. This deck isn't for the meek if you're not comfortable gambling on the G1 roll or mulliganing often if needed.

Sorry for the rambling nature. It tends to happen when I don't get to talk about Dragon Stompy for too long.

Quality locks:
Blood Moon
Magus of the Moon
Chalice of the Void
Trinisphere

Super explosive:
Sword of War and Piece
Priest of Urabrask
Gathan Raiders
Rakdos Pit Dragon

Flex:
Phyrexian Revoker (great in my meta)

That's what works for me.

Keep it up. Love this deck. Excited for a 3CMC (3 or 2R) creature to be printed with some kind of lock built it or ridiculously power creeped, as always.

Have fun,

0dysseus

04-03-2012, 11:05 AM

I had Ancient Tomb out and was using it to cast Moltensteel and Trinisphere, while my Chalice got Dazed, falling to 10 life. Moltensteel ate a piece of removal and Snapcaster and maybe another creature beat me down before I could recover. I believe that Force took out my second creature. Just not having those extra couple of turns to draw something relevant felt bad IMO.

That's one match:) If he didn't have that removal, you'd probably be amazed with this dragon. One bad thing is that the casting cost's life loss works against the amount of pump you can give, but again, he's a stable 4/4 flying firebreathing beater.

@ Octopusman: I do like your idea, and I haven't tested it. The current metagame seems suitable for sword of war and peace... My problems are:
1) I do not intend to give $120 for 3 swords..(although I can test it on workstation, I enjoy it more when I test lists I can actually play in a tournie).
2) I want to play things that are always (or almost always) useful, like Jitte. The swords give protection against certain colors. What if you play against Merfolk or The Gate?
However you have made me curious and so I will test before I say more.

How many swords do you play?..I'm guessing about 3-4?

I like Lord of Shatterskull Pass , and not because of his ulti. I like him because of his 6 toughness that is a lot better that 5 toughness imho. He can't be dismembered and the level up ability compensates for the poor topdeck mode of the deck (you can always lvl him up if you topdeck like shit). If you topdeck good he still is an excellent defender-attacker with just a single level-up.

If you play Priest of Urabrask, then yes, equipments seem like a good solution. I had tried priest along with a couple Phyrexian Metamorphs, which can copy him and let you play one more free spell if you play them both. But I didn't try equipment with that build, I should have.
Try adding 2-3 Metamorphs in the Revoker slots, and leave 2-3 Revos SB.

I got a little bored with hellbent's instability. If I were you I'd play 3 RPDs and a single Moltensteel.

I'd like to see your sideboard if you please.

Octopusman

04-03-2012, 01:59 PM

How many swords do you play?..I'm guessing about 3-4?

I'd like to see your sideboard if you please.

I think 4 is definitely too many. I generally like having a equipment every 2 out of 3 games or so. I run 2 sword of war and peace and 1 jitte.
To be honest, I can get frustrated with equipment because by the time you cast it and pay for the equip cost they can remove the creature and set you way back. I've also had a sowp on the table and no creature when just dropping one and connecting once would have sealed the deal.

Like I said, my curve stays pretty low, only going into 4CMC for the pit dragons, but I am kind of 3CMC heavy. I don't run seething song (it's difficult to then cast a three cmc spell and a two cmc spell turn one since I don't have a lot of two drops besides chalice, 1 jitte, and usually a few revokers). Also, since I generally plan on having one of my sol lands wasted or getting manascrewed, I can't rely on the turn 2 seething song + 1 mana into two 3cmc threats.

With all of the accel and the priests I definitely want to see one every game. However, I generally never want to see two and therefore I know it's not realistic to try to see it every game in a deck with no card advantage or brainstorms+shuffle.

If I do see two equipment, there's equal chance it will be a sword and a jitte.
Casting equipment off of priests feels good because it usually means you are able to attack while equipped as soon as summoning sickness wears off. In less bursty decks or SMF decks, sometimes they don't see the equipment cheated into play until a turn and a half after the creature hits play (though often it's a batter skull which is a different story).

Our mana goes from either 3 to 5, 2 to 4, 3(sol+guide) to 4, 2 to 3, or 3 to 4. Sometimes a wasteland can put you at a dreaded 2 or 1 mana.
The spells in your hand should enable decent plays based on what the mana situation is going to look like. I'm afraid that I feel Dragon Stompy isn't just about spamming 3cmc spell. Since we need to make the most of each card, you must eke out as much value per turn as possible.
Personally I just feel that 3, 3cmc, equips is too much since I haven't been running a full set of revokers as of late.
I quit playing arc-slogger (who is a champ) when I stopped playing seething song lists. Seething Song can kind of help enable hellbent, which I mentioned is still my preferred approach, however it can be replaced by priests which provide a body.

I try to make the deck as consistent as I can. I feel that dropping a sol, mox, song, and then an arc slogger or batter skull is kind of asking for it. That leaves you with a couple of cards and if they follow up with a plow + wasteland or answered slogger with a force of will that's pretty much gg.

Sure they can force your magus of the moon, trinisphere, or sword of war and peace cast off of a priest, but they would have done that anyway and it likely leads to some beats plus your next play is likely getting through. Maybe next turn you're dropping a jitte, equipping and swinging which puts you way ahead when it's as early as turn 2.

Sorry for not being more elaborate - I should be working.

Good luck. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think. I already know how good sowp is under magus/3sphere. :)

It is expensive. I picked up 2 for cheap a while ago and didn't notice they had gone up in price so much. Standard is to blame, I guess. Kind of silly that it'll probably not go down a lot once it rotates even though it's pretty unanimously the "worst" sword. Like I said, it just happens to work great in this deck.

The protections are gravy that stop most of the format's removal. I'm also not concerned with life gain since I'm likely going for hellbent. The real power lies in the fact that since you can power it out early while they're helpless, it just ends games. A non-buffed hellbent pit dragon can easily swing for 22.

I just feel that swinging for 10 with a gathan raiders or magus of the moon early should be done if the option is available.

I can't remember my exact board right now. I can tell you that there is affinity and mud in my area and therefore I was running shattering spree (great with priest ;) since it can push through chalice. Tribal in many forms is also around so I was running firespout and ratchet bomb for them to overextend into (though not so great against goblins). Tribal always tended to be a longer game if I didn't get swarmed by turn 4 while I look stupid with my 1 threat.
I know I have at least 2 Anarchy in the board but I'd probably add more these days.
I'll have to double check the rest but I know my preferred grave hate had been Crypt. However, since I also pilot dredge I know Crypt isn't that scary but it buys more turns than cage and I'm against cmc1 cards in the board for the most part anyway (spree is an exception since you can put copies on the stack). I have lost to Dredge with Dragon Stompy more than once and I'm not sure the best way to combat it outside of fringe answers like Silent Arbiter (and then they ancient grudge or natures claim him anyway). However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to run blasts to deal with Delvers...
The problem is, we're short on cards in this deck already. It's stupid not to run chalices against delver.dec however if you're on the draw, you kind of look like an ass holding chalice and not a blast. With only 4 chalice effect, your odds of finding one in your opening 7 isn't that great. You can run chalices and blasts to increase your chances of not bending over to an early delver but then you are potentially shutting off even more cards.

Not much that hasn't already been said.

My sideboard was mainly built to:
Sweep white permanents
Sweep token swarms
Blow up as many artifacts as possible with 1 card
Grave Hate
And sometimes risk killing my own creatures to Sweep with Firespout

Problems I would love to have answers for (in color):
Reanimator
Emrakul.dec
Progenitus
Hive Mind (although I'm not too worried about facing this deck these days but it is an autoloss - Sundial is stupid, kthx)
Liliana(?)
Snapcaster advantage
Moat

The above either win instantly or we just can't keep up against the reusable advantage they get over the course of multiple turns.
Although I did race and win vs. a progenitus with sword of war and peace ;)

Topor orb? meh
Chaos Warp? meh (not like you're casting it on iona, emrakul, or prog anyway).

Glad to see there's activity here. Sometimes this thread is dead for long periods of time when the meta isn't in a position for this deck to exploit.
I wish that moon hosed dryad arbor but most people aren't going for the natural order these days it seems.

ForlornEgoist

04-03-2012, 03:26 PM

@ Octopus:

Welcome back! I had wondered where you scampered off too.

In regards to some of your suggestions:

@ Sword of War and Peace: This seems like a fairly relevant sword for us to be running as its static defenses are what the field is main streaming right now. I've no particular issue with this. In fact, I may even test it out in the Jitte slot of my deck. But seriously? Sword is THAT high? Damn. It is the worst sword of the lot and as such I never even bothered getting one. -.-'

@ Gathan Raiders/Rakdos Pit Dragon: I'm not quite sure why you're so confident in Gathan as a creature. A 3/3 body is useless and a 5/5 may as well be considered useless with the prevalence of equipment. Even running your own equipment doesn't negate the power of Stoneforge decks.
The problem I have with RPD, as well as Hellbent is that it forces you to run weaker mid-late game cards in the hopes you'll get nuts draws in the opening 7. Sure, Opening up into solid acceleration that lets you empty your hand and throw a Hellbent RPD on the field is just swell, but in reality our deck rarely treats us this well. The fact of the matter with this deck is that most opponents, especially in this meta, are able to survive those initial few turns and then what are we left with but subpar creatures and acceleration? I'm not denying the strengths of RPD in those initial turns but to me he is a card that plays somewhat like Belcher does: Its nuts assuming you're opponent doesn't have 1 of many answers to it.
Moltensteel, although he can't push through quite so much damage, is a much safer card choice. At 4 colorless he can be much more readily cast than 2RR. He already has Flying, is above burn range, and can still fire breathe. Not to mention being an Artifact means he can't be answered by Mom. I know you don't think 1 toughness is entirely relevant, but considering how popular UR Delver has become yes, it is, because now to kill of a Moltensteel they either have to chump block/burn or use 2 burns to get rid of him. They can't just Bolt or throw a Delver at him like they might with RPD.

Ultimately our arguments just boils down to playstyles. Yes, I know, the decks design almost forces you to give up the mid-late game but its my opinion that you don't have to make that sacrifice. I've tailored my deck towards having a much stronger mid-late game while not sacrificing early game efficiency. I've still got much testing to perform with my lists but since doing such I've noticed my win ratio increase dramatically.
No, I'm not going to advocate everyone here switch to an artifact-based list like myself. I've been posting decklists and in-depth breakdowns to try and provide the pros and cons of my strategies. However, I will say that it is important to not just blithely assume based on past experience that this deck is always going to be strongest when using stupid acceleration in the early game. Sometimes it can be quite conveinant when you get past those initial turns and don't automatically enter into topdeck mode to shuffle through all the crap acceleration and lock pieces to find those few good creatures.

@ SB:
Phyrexian Metamorph is probably the best answer to Emrakul (Pehaps run a Conquering Manticore for funsies! Jk).
Pyroblast is what I use to great success against Snapcaster.
Obviously you know about Anarchy, Reds only real answer to any type of enchantment destruction. I'm assuming its for Enchantress that you're trying to deal with Moat, but perhaps if you wanted to stall the opponent out maybe Gravity Sphere? The card is essentially worthless but if the deck isn't Enchantress then this hurts them as much as it hurts you. :p

On a separate note, I was browsing through some old sets and found a couple cards. Figured I'd post this just for fun, not feigning they'll be competitive: Combust, Defender of Chaos, Omen of Fire.

Forlorn Egoist

Octopusman

04-03-2012, 03:43 PM

Omen of fire is hilarious.

I hear you loud and clear regarding the hellbent points.
I honestly feel that from personal experience that the longer the game goes on, the less likely I am to stabilize and win. Maybe this is because I'm hellbent. I've just always had a ton of success with the gathan raiders and the pit dragon.
I'm a little concerned about not being able to imprint the molten steel but if I replace main deck revokers with something red it will balance out, I suppose.

I'll try messing around with that. Don't get me wrong - I totally acknowledge the importance of 4 toughness over 3. I used to play Serendib Efreet :tongue:.

I'd like to try molten steel. Being an artifact makes me feel it's really fragile though. It's not like I'll have the revokers for the qasali pride mages, it seems.

Hmmm. Something to think about. I do love combust as well. Although the store is always out of them and I've been too lazy to order.

heroicraptor

04-03-2012, 07:04 PM

Not to mention being an Artifact means [Moltensteel Dragon] can't be answered by Mom.

What? Moltensteel Dragon is definitely red.

Octopusman

04-03-2012, 09:00 PM

I'm just so disappointed in Rados Pit Dragon's three toughness. It's balanced though.

Moltensteel scares the crap out of me because there are many games where I do a tremendous amount of damage to myself with Ancient Tombs as it is.

If you use one tomb you're at 14 or lower to cast this one creature. Seems so risky.

How aggressive do you get with the pump? Let's say you've cast it on turn 2. On turn three you're at 12 life let's say (Turn 1 Tomb plus mox or guide for a lock piece). On Turn three, do you pump it? If so, by how much?
Assume your opponent is around 18-20 based on fetching.

What if you know they're playing lightning bolt or price of progress?

If you pump it by 6, that puts you at 6 and then at 8-10. You could swing for the kill if they're below 10 on turn 4.

It's funny how many decisions it makes you make. If you pump it by a lot and they destroy it, you just f'ed yourself.

Even without molten steel I've been so low on life I couldn't cast spells due to tomb.

Decisions decisions. Oh well a playset of foil molten steel is like $8. :)

bganns

04-03-2012, 10:03 PM

For Sb cards what you guy's think of Mogg Salvage?

Octopusman

04-04-2012, 12:47 AM

For Sb cards what you guy's think of Mogg Salvage?

I like it. If you're getting whipped by stoneforge.dec maybe you could justify it. Are you? It's fantastic that it's free. If they got a batterskull that's a big gain. Decent for hitting vial against random folk?
It's great that it's for game 2 and 3 because they're likely fetching into islands once they know the deck so they're less likely to be mountains.

I would like to see a sideboard that focuses on beating our difficult match ups in a major tournament. It seems we're decently poised against the top decks already. Make those matchups better or try I make the miserable ones better? Not rhetorical. Appreciate thoughts on maybe multiple sideboards and reasons why you'd run one over another based on recent results. I don't have the time to put work into it now.

Maybe boil is good right now too.

Again, I think I'd still like to see a sideboard that prevents or can answer something like Iona on red. I don't think cage is the answer.

What funny? I think they'll have Karakas in FTV Realms because all of the best reanimator targets lately have been Emmy, Iona, Elesh, Jin. Coincidence?
EDH rejoice...

Wereodile

04-04-2012, 10:29 AM

For Sb cards what you guy's think of Mogg Salvage?

Free is always good and it dodges chalice but I think with G/W Maverick taking up such a large chunk of the meta Shattering Spree is still the best choice.

As mentioned though if you are up against a lot of Stoneblade then by all means side that in.

bganns

04-04-2012, 02:01 PM

Against Ionna i can see only two options: remove her from the grave in response or as son as she get there (Faerie, Tormod etc) or have a Torpor Orb in the field.

Octopusman

04-04-2012, 02:07 PM

I don't believe Topor Orb prevents Iona's naming of a color.

ForlornEgoist

04-04-2012, 03:04 PM

What? Moltensteel Dragon is definitely red.

Yeah.... you're totally right. At the time I was thinking about Etched Champion when I was writing and somehow got it in my head the same applied to Moltensteel. You are 100% right. Thank you for catching that.

@ Torpor Orb vs Iona, Shield of Emeria:

The Orb has no affect on Iona's ability because its a static ability which creates a replacement effect. Her ability says "As Iona ETB," not "When Iona ETB." Thus Orb doesn't affect Iona's ability.

Forlorn Egoist

from Cairo

04-04-2012, 03:16 PM

@ SB:
Phyrexian Metamorph is probably the best answer to Emrakul (Pehaps run a Conquering Manticore for funsies! Jk).
Pyroblast is what I use to great success against Snapcaster.
Obviously you know about Anarchy, Reds only real answer to any type of enchantment destruction. I'm assuming its for Enchantress that you're trying to deal with Moat, but perhaps if you wanted to stall the opponent out maybe Gravity Sphere? The card is essentially worthless but if the deck isn't Enchantress then this hurts them as much as it hurts you. :p

On a separate note, I was browsing through some old sets and found a couple cards. Figured I'd post this just for fun, not feigning they'll be competitive: Combust, Defender of Chaos, Omen of Fire.

I think Chaos Warp is worth considering for SB space. It works as a solution to Moat but also can take out Planeswalkers, Equipment or Creatures.

I'd consider Sulfur Elemental before Defender of Chaos. Nuking Mother of Runes and Lingering Souls seems like a bigger perk than First Strike.

Octopusman

04-04-2012, 03:21 PM

I like stingscourger for answering emrakul but it's worthless against iona and progenitus.

I think against show and tell and/or hive mind we don't have much choice but to run blasts.
What do we lose against show and tell / hive mind if we take out chalices? I don't think anything, really.
Would you leave in trinisphere or take it out? It might delay them a turn if they can't pact the same turn they drop hive mind, but that's probably not enough to race them.

I feel it's a losing situation vs. reanimator as well. A chalice at 1 slows them down a tiny bit if you're lucky enough to not have it countered or otherwise if you're lucky enough to land it before their entomb/careful study/reanimate. They've got other ways to dump cards in the gave + exhume.
Moons hurt them but just like the above example, a lot has to do with the die roll and if they're holding counters.

Tough problems to solve in mono-red. Still thinking...

ForlornEgoist

04-04-2012, 03:34 PM

Okay, so I edited my post with these suggestions but then the effing thing timed out so here I am.

As for dealing with Iona, GY hate (Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus/Faerie Macabre) are probably the best answer. You could also rely on Surgical Extraction to Exile her once she hits the GY. Arena of the Ancients is a pretty nice answer to Legends although it won't negate Iona by any means it can at least stall until you dig for an answer. You could also take her out with Phyrexian Metamorph.

For uncompetitive but funny suggestions: Crooked Scales, Duplicant is unrealistically expensive but at least it lets you retain the creature. Noetic Scales would do the job as well considering all their Reanimated creatures generally have power greater than 7, of course, you also have to be aware of your own hand total. Of course, if they never have blockers then you only need 1 creature thats attacking. Predator, Flagship also answers a great deal of annoying creatures with Flying including Emrakul and Iona.

I'm still working on the Proggy answer but as he isn't in my meta it'll take some time.

Edit: Y'know, Noetic Scales actually isn't quite so horrible a card as it answers KotR, Emrakul, Progenitus, Iona, nearly all Reanimator creatures, and whathaveyou. I'm not saying I'll plan on using it as my metas don't really have NO/Reanimator/S&T/SA decks, however, I could see it as being a viable card to playtest.

Forlorn Egoist

Octopusman

04-04-2012, 03:37 PM

Hmmm. Can't metamorp answer progenitus as well?

Looks like metamorph is the way to go.

ForlornEgoist

04-04-2012, 03:42 PM

Yep. Albeit I made some pretty silly suggestions just a post ago, realistically speaking Phyrexian Metamorph is probably the best answer to any cheated cretures like Emmy or Prog.

I still like Noetic Scales though. ^~^
Forlorn Egoist

Wereodile

04-04-2012, 03:50 PM

I think Chaos Warp is worth considering for SB space. It works as a solution to Moat but also can take out Planeswalkers, Equipment or Creatures.

I'd consider Sulfur Elemental before Defender of Chaos. Nuking Mother of Runes and Lingering Souls seems like a bigger perk than First Strike.

Do you think running a mix of Chaos Warp and Sulfur Elemental is worth siding in versus just running Anarchy?

Anarchy does everything Sulfur Elemental can do aside from leaving a body behind but Chaos Warp can hit a lot of non-white permanents like JTMS so may warrant some testing.

Octopusman

04-04-2012, 04:12 PM

Zupponn

04-05-2012, 02:19 AM

Do you think running a mix of Chaos Warp and Sulfur Elemental is worth siding in versus just running Anarchy?

Anarchy does everything Sulfur Elemental can do aside from leaving a body behind but Chaos Warp can hit a lot of non-white permanents like JTMS so may warrant some testing.

Anarchy is actually better than the Elemental as it can kill scary white fatties that the Elemental can't along with enchantments. Also, I've never really had many problems with JTMS as he dies from bouncing my creature 3 times or I kill him with 1 attack. He's mainly stall material for the opponent.

I've actually been thinking that the more removal we run, the better. How realistically can we race most decks in the format right now? I'm really liking having 4x Jitte and 4x FTK maindeck against tougher popular matchups like Maverick and Stoneblade. Both cards help us win those crucial creature wars.

ForlornEgoist

04-06-2012, 08:00 PM

Well, I'm just two weeks away from my local Starcity Legacy IQ and I've started some rampant brainstorming. The meta has shifted to Maverick/UW Stoneblade/UR Delver and, although my build has certainly been vastly improved with the latest changes to my deck, I am still hesitant to consider them good MU's. I've adapted my Rock deck to deal with Stoneforge decks (so a friend can play) but I'm still figuring out what might work for my deck.

Firstly, I'm considering removing/reducing my Moon count down to 5. As an avid and old school DS player I am somewhat iffy on dropping my Moon count below 6, however looking at the DTB right now none of them, honestly, get heavily punished by a Moon effect. Maverick is probably the most adversly affected as it runs Waste/Toolbox lands however it runs Hierarch and/or Birds to aid in color fixing. UW Stoneblade can easily fall back on basics, and UR Delver really only needs 2 Islands, and even shutting off the blue from their Volcanics still gives them the red they need for burn.
TBH since I'm running Lodestone + 3sphere I'm not necessarily losing hate, just prioritizing it.

In the empty slots of those Moons (+ my single Akroma, Angel of Fury) I'm considering MDing my 3 Shattering Spree. I know, at first sight Revoker seems like a better option, however I'm looking for utility that assumes the worst for me and isn't going to die to removal. Spree is highly relevant MD as most of the decks I'll face run the Stoneforge toolbox, and this way I always have an answer to the biggest threat against the deck.

Secondly, I'm honestly considering playtesting Combust. Its a nice, uncounterable way to kill off Delvers and even nix Mom/Stoneforge and possibly KotR + it has the added benefit of instant speed. If I'm running Spree this most likely will be SB material as I don't want to overload the MD with non-creatures. Still, more and more this card is beginning to interest me.

Well, I just wanted to stop by with these two thought points before I head out for errands.

Forlorn Egoist

Octopusman

04-07-2012, 02:54 AM

Mostly @Egoist: I'm interested to hear how artifact hate main works out for you.

I hate hoping to draw into something. Drawing into shattering sprees or holding them for when it's clutch to have it is great too. I guess after its dead vs delver you can side them out for combust.

I'm a huge fan of combust. I actually think there was some mention of it in a format thread but I think it was mostly in jest. I however don't think it's a joke. It does us great vs a bunch of decks that matter. Also, you might have revoker for birds/hierarch.

I still wish I got a chance to test out my Spinal Villains. :)
By the time Merkfolk has game again, it might be off the back of a tribal merfolk planeswalker or some crap.

At least we don't have to worry about ooze (though easily answered with revoker). What concerns me is Qasali Pridemage.
True, a lot of people don't have experience playing against Dragon Stompy (which serves us doubly well when moons are dropped), but a Qasali on a much needed chrome mox can be very bad in tandem with wasteland. Can you tell I'm afraid of wasteland?
Stifle an wasteland always come and go but for Dragon Stompy to be best I needs a meta with lots of non-basics and as little wasteland as possible. Most folks just want to know if the format is ready to be molested by moons at the moment.

Does anyone have experience trying to play a splash? I'm curious to know.
It seems like suicide with sol lands and moons but I still like to hear experiences and what color.

It's a sad day to drop to do few moons but you make an excellent point about delver. Adding sprees main isn't any worse than those cards being moons against them IMO.
I play UR delver and chalice is a beating. Wait, a BEATING (fixt).
I also play UW and think that sprees are better than revoker even though it lowers threat density. Too many answers out there and you can rely on having chalice to stop swords to plowshares on revoker naming stoneforge, swords, batterskull etc.
The only, rare, case I can think of is chumping a batterskull with a hellbent raiders or LoSP and then dropping revoker on PancakeBatterskull before they can unsummon it.

Tell us your results. Don't forget to side in revokers vs. storm.
Pray for no weird shit that catches you off guard. Bile urchin or nomads en kor can be a random beating.

I swear by revoker (especially when most opponents can tutor for artifact hate whenever they want or they're holding it) but I'm replacing it with things to answer legendary fatties. It's not like they're goin to name blue with Iona.
I think I can free up a few more slots. I am thinking of going up to two jitte (on top of sowp x 2). I just can't bring myself to cut any priests since they are sooooooo tempo goodness.
I wish magnetic theft made you the controller of the equipment. It would be a whole different world wouldn't it?

I like your like I thinking but I'm not sure about sprees effectiveness vs maverick or delver. You can blow them out with combusts g2 and 3 but... Hmm. Hope you get lots of moons vs maverick. Still running revoker in the side? No extra moons in the side it seems.

So, combust, grave hate? Anarchy? Revokers? What is your board going to look like?
Your list is more mud so I'm worried about people Qasali'ing you all day long. I think you should consider revoke main considering mavericks popularity. It also hurts stone blade but
That means you worst matchup is deliver (in DTB) which gets randomly hosed by chalice and you can side in combust for delivers. Blasts for snapcasters?

Sorry if I contradicted myself. I'm a notorious devils advocate and it gets worse when I drink. Best to consider all sides when deck building though, obviously.

ForlornEgoist

04-07-2012, 04:15 PM

Well, I'm not denying that Revokers wouldn't be amazing MD, especially considering the pro-arguments I made for Spree MD against equipment, but I honestly don't have room MD for Revokers. My creature base is effectively:

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Moltensteel Dragon

If I weren't leaning more towards a MUD build I'd throw them in the Champion slot in a second, however one of the primary reasons I've switched to the MUD-build of our deck is specifically to abuse Etched Champion as well as give myself a stronger mid-late game. Revoker, for me, has always been most useful as a SB card as there are dozens of instances when I never even opted for him, even against MU's like Maverick where you'd think he'd necessary.

As far as my SB goes I'm still fiddling around with it. As of late I've been noticing a growing trend in Solidarity/Dredge decks. While DS is a fairly good anti-combo deck, at least as far as Dredge is concerned I'm still worried. Reducing my Moon count means I'll be losing my most devastating answer against them (as it denies them their ability to cast spells beyond DR).

Yeah, I'll agree, Qasali has always been one of the most annoying creatures to deal with, however, the benefit of having a more MUD-style DS deck is I have so many more relevant artifact targets. Kill the Lodestone? Fine, I still have Chalice, 3sphere, or equipment. Kill the equipment? Okay, enjoy not being able to cast spells. Etc. Etc. Even my entire creature base is, essentially, artifacts, so I'll have a better chance that regular builds of keeping some artifact which is relevant to me.

For the most part I'm content with the MD (still waiting to order the Opals) so all that is left is to playtest Combust and then fiddle with the numbers. Thusly, here is what I'm considering:

1 Blood Moon
3 Combust
3 Anarchy
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Pyroblast

Since I'm MDing my Sprees I might decide to lose either a Revoker or an Anarchy for that 2nd Moon. I'm loathe to lose a nice board clear like Anarchy however as I'm running a fair amount of Equipment, Champion, + Combust have a board reset seems less needed, particularly since I'm not expecting Enchantress or Prog. which is what I originally had planned for them.
On this note I may even consider taking out a single Pyroblast since I might be running the Combust so being able to counter will be less relevant if I have an uncounterable kill spell.

Well, I'll be sure to give you updates on how my playtesting. Btb, not that anyone really cares but I am well on my way to foil out my entire DS deck. All thats really left is the Magus', Simians, Lodestones, and the Chalices. >:)

ForlornEgoist

Octopusman

04-08-2012, 12:49 AM

No gravehate in the board? Oversight? I know you have sprees which you could stack trough chalice but I'm not a fan of relic of progenitus with this deck since it can randomly screw your hellbent if you run that.
I like your creature base. Glad you're feeling the power of etched champion. I think he card is underrated since it plays offense and defense both really well.
I would be tempted to throw a sowp on it but my list is t as muddy.

How do you typically "turn on" the mox opals? What first couple turn plays do you usually make and when does metalcraft occur? Just curious since getting 3 mana on turn 1 is standard (not for you?) I don't see mox being active till turn 2. Am I missing something?
I guess turn 1 chalice for 1 or jitte (maybe - since you generally might not want jitte turn 1) if you're lucky and then an artifact land and then mox for 4 mana on turn 2? Sounds iffy since this requires getting 1 of a 4 of like 3 cards.

Never played opal so pardon my ignorance.

Also, when I read you don't being in revoker for maverick I mouthed "you're doing it wrong". Just my perspective. Revoker is molestation vs maverick.

ForlornEgoist

04-08-2012, 11:03 AM

In regards to playing Opal, yes, I generally don't get it active until Turn 2. Like I've discussed a huge weakness of this decks core is our weakness in mid and late game scenarios. This, I consider, is the reason I discard this deck in favor of other decks when contemplating tournament choices. I've always desired to make DS a deck I can take into tourneys without fear of just sacrificing my chances to win, so the MUD-style is my attempt to make it more stalwart in adversity. With my build I'm sacrificing that extra turn of speed (which has come back to bit me in the ass when I can drop a T1 lock piece) but overall its improved my durability. Lock pieces are still relevant regardless if they're dropped T1 or not.
Yeah, a T1 Chalice @ 1 can prevent a mom, a Thoughtseize, a cantrip, etc. however even if you drop it T2 its still negating all those 1cc cards which the opponent relies on. Don't misunderstand me when I say that its not relevant to drop a lock piece on T1. I'm not even going to deny there have been many instances where I would've had life much easier had I dropped a lock earlier. However, this build is my decision to sacrifice some acceleration in favor of a less greedy board position that ultimately gives me a better chance to compete against the DTB's. Will this build be for every DS player? I highly doubt it. Frankly, there are still countless times where I argue with myself about how many times I relied on that T1 Chrome Mox to give me the necessary acceleration. But thats just it, I guess. I started to dislike how reliant I was beginning to rely on that Mox, and the fact that my build was already starting to resemble a MUD deck more and more gave me less and less Red cards to Imprint. I guess I'm quite conflicted as to my preference at the moment, but thus far I can definitely say MUD-style is definitely worth testing for people.

As far as Revoker goes I think my primary issue is that I was never good at SBing against Maverick. Anarchy, Shattering Spree, and Phyrexian Revoker are all relevant against them. For this MU I was always so horrible at deciding what to SB in and what to take out so sometimes I overshot Revoker in favor of the Sprees and Anarchy's. I fully acknowledge how many relevant targets Revoker has, I'm just bad at Sbing. DS is honestly the hardest deck for me to SB with as I am still grasping what is the most relevant. I have it so much easier with Enchantress and Rock. ^^'

ForlornEgoist

Esper3k

04-09-2012, 06:36 PM

Any of you guys give Cursed Totem some consideration to help against Maverick?

ForlornEgoist

04-09-2012, 07:31 PM

I've actually never given Cursed Totem consideration, tbh, probably because it shuts off Lord of Shatterskull Pass/Arc Slogger, Moltensteel Dragon and Rakdos Pit Dragon.

That having been said, of those 3 creatures Moltensteel is probably the most heavily played and tbh firebreathing isn't that amazingly relevant. Contrariwise, Totem disables Mom/KotR/Stoneforge/Hierarch/Birds/Qasali so this card alone shuts off every creature in their deck, not to mention all of the other MU's it could be relevant (of which I won't name as Maverick's creatures are the most relevant of the DTB).

Interesting.... albeit I'm already content with my 75 to dealing with the DTB Totem definitely intrigues me...

Forlorn Egoist

Esper3k

04-10-2012, 10:34 AM

Yeah, I just remembered it being looked at by other decks a long time ago, but never went anywhere, but now Maverick decks are running Linvala as a similar card for the mirror, maybe it was time to revisit it.

Octopusman

04-10-2012, 02:06 PM

Don't forget it also stops ooze.

I just can't find space for totem.

ForlornEgoist

04-10-2012, 02:27 PM

Totem won't fit into my 75 as my MUD-build is much more greedy with its card count, not to mention I've already Metagamed the card choices to dealing with Delver and Stoneforge, however I don't think Totem would be unreasonable for you.

I've already argued in several posts above how Moon is probably your most subpar choice for a lock condition in the current meta. Perhaps you can run just 5-6 Moons and use the remaining 2-3 slots for the Totem. At the very least the card is definitely worth testing.

Forlorn Egoist

Octopusman

04-13-2012, 02:01 AM

I was excited when I heard there was a 2CMC red walker. Now I'm not excited. Boo hoo.

ivanpei

04-13-2012, 02:14 AM

It's actually a really fast clock if you want to play a full on mana screw version with tanglewire, trini and moons. T1 seething song into a screw piece plus the new walker seems evil. But of course its very conditional. Otherwise, it's pretty crap.

ForlornEgoist

04-13-2012, 02:19 AM

Okay, y'all, Red is starting to get some love in Avacyn Restored. Here are the 2 current cards which may have some viability in DS:

Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded RR
Planesewalker
+ 1: Draw a card and then discard a card at random.
-4: Tibalt deals damage to target player equal to the number of cards in their hand.
-6: Gain control of all creatures until end of turn. They have haste. Sacrifice them at the end of turn.
2

Bonfire of the Damned XXR
Sorcery
Bonfire of the Damned deals X damage to target player and all creatures they control.
Miracle XR (You may play Bonfire for its Miracle cost when you draw it if it was the first card you drew this turn).

I'm not sure how I feel the planeswalker. The RR is still annoying to cast for us. His +1 ability actually seems relevant to us as we're always hungry for more cards. His -2 seems weakened by this heavily aggro meta that looks to empty its hands asap. Realistically we'll never get him up to his -6.

As far as Bonfire goes I'm actually quite joyful at the possibilities. With the amount of mana we can ramp from Sol lands, assuming we cast it for the Miracle, We can reasonably do 5+ damage to an opponent/all creatures they control. Obviously this assumes we topdeck it, but lets face it, Dragon Stompy is already a topdeck-deck.

Based on initial thoughts I think these cards will be cast into the list of cards that just barely get cut from competitive Dragon Stompy (don't you DARE say that was an oxymoron :P). Much playtesting is required.

Forlorn Egoist

Octopusman

04-13-2012, 12:54 PM

assuming we cast it for the Miracle

Which is why it's crap. We have no fixing.
Also in regards to the walker. It's too slow and we can't risk losing cards we need since we already have no draw.

Seems awful!

ForlornEgoist

04-13-2012, 02:13 PM

@ Octopus:

Yeah.... I honestly think both cards are worthless. I'm well aware of their flaws and very much doubt they'll add anything to our deck. However, at each and every set release I always do my best to try and debate card choices, esp. when Dragon Stompy is concerned, in the hopes that red will get that meta-changing card like Green with 'Goyf or Blue with Jace 2.0/Mental Misstep. Damn you, WotC. Show Red some love, please. =(

EDIT: OMG, Octopus, I just now realized your avatar has the Majora's Mask/Moon eyes. Lol, its a good think I play Magic, a game in which observation is important. :p
Forlorn Egoist

Gammadoom

04-13-2012, 02:54 PM

Which is why it's crap. We have no fixing.
Also in regards to the walker. It's too slow and we can't risk losing cards we need since we already have no draw.

Seems awful!

Crystal Ball warrented some consideration at one point. Seems like a list that ran it might be able to run a couple of these.

Zupponn

04-15-2012, 03:28 AM

Bonfire of the Damned and Zealous Conscripts are the two cards that interest me so far in the new set, and maybe even Reforge the Soul to a lesser extent. Tibalt doesn't seem to fit the shell too well though. Bonfire interests me the most of them all so far, and I don't think we can simply write it off before doing much testing. Thinking about it, we might be just about the only deck in Legacy that can hard cast it for its XXR cost effectively. Here's to hoping for an awesome 2R costing creature!

heroicraptor

04-15-2012, 07:23 PM

-3 Things
+3 Reforge the Soul

ForlornEgoist

04-16-2012, 09:30 AM

Reforge the Soul 3RR
Each player discards his or her hand, then draws seven cards.
Miracle 1R

I most DEFINITELY approve of this card. Man, WotC is definitely giving some love to Red this set, even if most of the cards thus far haven't been suitable for DS. The two key weaknesses with this deck have always been lack of decent targeted removal and lack of cantrips. Well, this card most definitely resolves the 2nd issue. Albeit the 3RR is somewhat expensive, however this deck has already proven we can reasonably cast Arc Slogger when necessary, so it is quite reasonable to hard cast this card when necessary.

The primary issue to keep in mind, however, is making sure that A) We pack the necessary hate in our SB for the meta, and B) We use this card smartly, not just blindly when we want 7 cards. Its important to remember that Maverick runs a full suite of threats. Now, while nearly their entire board is dedicated white creatures (Hierarch/Ooze being the only real exceptions) Anarchy is really our only solid answer to a board (I'm excluding Pyrokinesis/Flametongue Kavu, and Combust). Meaning that if we don't luck out on the draw we've potentially drawn them into either threats or removal.
Its also important to be wary when playing against UR/RUG Delver-Tempo that we don't provide them with the burn they require to kill us. Afterall, many lists are running 6-8+ burn spells with x4 Snapcaster for redundancy.

This card, however, most definitely shows promise in DS and I plan to playtest it promptly.

Forlorn Egoist

Octopusman

04-17-2012, 01:59 PM

New land makes Chalice a lot weaker.

To be honest, the printing of the new land makes me kind of want to quit MTG after playing off and on since 1993.
I just realized it's been almost 20 years. Wow...

whienot

04-17-2012, 02:26 PM

I wouldn't freak out about Cavern of Souls too much. It only weakens Chalice as much as it strengthens Moon effects.

Wereodile

04-17-2012, 02:28 PM

I wouldn't freak out about Cavern of Souls too much. It only weakens Chalice as much as it strengthens Moon effects.

I was also initially disappointed by the cavern's possible effect on DS but I had not thought of the Moon effects and now I am happy again

Well done Sir!

overseer1234

04-17-2012, 02:56 PM

I wouldn't freak out about Cavern of Souls too much. It only weakens Chalice as much as it strengthens Moon effects.

Indeed, and tribal decks (the decks that mostly benefit from this land) usually ran aeter vial anyway. Which is more problematic as moon didn't fix that + vial is better against trinisphere than the land will ever be.

Greenpoe

04-17-2012, 03:41 PM

-3 Things
+3 Reforge the Soul

Might it be time to switch up the lock pieces so they really can't capitalize on the draw-7 by using cards like Aether Flash?

ForlornEgoist

04-17-2012, 04:03 PM

The issue with Aether Flash is that Unless you draw into a rather accomodating hand chances are the opponent will of had time to drop creatures before Flash comes out (Mom, Thalia, Hiearch, Pridemage, Ooze, Stoneforge, even possibly KotR). That having been said, as all of the creatures with exception to Knight will ETB as 1 of 2 toughness creatures, Flash isn't entirely unreasonable later.

I've even been looking at Cursed Totem as a replacement for either my 3spheres or my Moons as this card can easily be cast off a Sol land T1 and it shuts off all relevant creatures in Maverick, and even has utility if you can't auto-drop it T1-2.

Forlorn Egoist

Gui

04-17-2012, 04:18 PM

Use the Werewolf list and name humans -> Uncounterable moons and critters ^^

ForlornEgoist

04-17-2012, 05:08 PM

@ Gui:

I've nothing against the Werewolf list however the primary problems with running the land in said list are thus: Firstly, We're already running 8 nonbasics not to mention Moon effects, so not only would we be further opening ourselves up to nonbasic hate our own Moon effects would negate the land. Secondly, albeit counters are slightly more prevalent ala U/W Stoneblade/RUG-Tempo/UR Delver, they aren't so popular that I honestly consider counter suites our major priority. If we are going to lose against any of the DTB it will be, in my opinion, either due to RUG burning us to death or Maverick dropping too many threats.

If we honestly hope to survive this meta our primary goal should be, imo, to find ways of dealing with Maverick as that, ultimately, will be our Everest to climb. Even with burn Chalice @1/our creatures do a pretty good job of racing RUG tempo, we are already adept at handling Dredge/Solidarity, thusly finding ways to negate the Maverick's creatures (either by killing them or shutting off abilities) should be our primary focus.

EDIT: Y'know what I just realized? If Maverick (a deck filled with 1 and 2 drops) is such a big concern, why don't we consider Ratchet Bomb/Powder Keg once again? After all, nixes all of their permanants while leaving ours untouched, they are easily cast off Sol lands, and it is the best board reset we could ask for after Anarchy. Albeit it dies to Qasali, hover a Chalice @ 1 helps to negate GSZ and being as they only run 2 or so (with some bolder lists not even running GSZ) I definitely think we should consider returning to Bomb/Keg.

Note that in the context of the meta I think Keg would be the better option. Albeit it can't hit enchantments or planeswalkers, however I think this is a small sacrifice to pay in exchange for letting us pop the Keg in response to an attempted disenchant by the opponent (which we couldn't do if they got us off guard when we put a charge counter on the bomb).

Forlorn Egoist

heroicraptor

04-17-2012, 08:37 PM

"Chalice @ 1 helps to negate GSZ"

Only if they go for Dryad Arbor. While an X spell is on the stack, the X counts in CMC.

ForlornEgoist

04-18-2012, 03:10 PM

"Chalice @ 1 helps to negate GSZ"

Only if they go for Dryad Arbor. While an X spell is on the stack, the X counts in CMC.

Yeah.... thanks for catching that. o.O

Well, I think I'll definitely plan on taking DS to my Starcity this Saturday. What irks me, however, is that because I won't get the cards on time I can't play my MUD build so I have to go a different list.

As I've stated earlier the primary goal of what I am trying to metagame is Maverick. I am confident I can handle all other DTB including random decks, so Maverick is the contender. Here are a few cards I am contemplating for the MU:

Anarchy
Powder Keg
Ratchet Bomb
Firespout
Cinder Cloud
Cursed Totem
Nevinyrral's Disk
Sulfur Elemental

I'm still searching through my rather elephantine collection of cards but these are just a couple I've pulled out.

Anarchy is obviously already in the sideboard.
Powder Keg most likely will find a slot as well as its an affordable board clear (I prefer this over Ratchet because if they have removal such as Qasali I can at least Sac the Keg in response if we assumed the Ratched was tapped).
Firespout is a card I once loathed considering at the point it was popular I was sporting a Hellbent list meaning this card nixed all of my creatures as well but since obtaining Shatterskull/Moltensteel/Lodestone/BSkull I consider the effects of Spout to be essentially one-sided now. I may very well even MD this...
Cinder Cloud is hella expensive at 3RR and is the least likely candidate however noting how big KotR/Ooze can get this, assuming Mom isn't able to shield, will not only kill a creature but also hit the opponent for an average of 4/5+ damage.
Cursed Totem has similar arguments to 3sphere in that its the most amazing piece of hate you can play provided you drop it T1/2.
Nevinyrral's Disk, an EDH favorite, has possibilities as you can activate a board reset earlier than Keg/Bomb, however the issue being is that it ETB tapped so they can respond with a Qasali [b]AND[b] it removes all of your artifacts, not just 1 specific CMC like Keg/Bomb.
Sulfur Elemental seems nice in that he auto-kills Mom/Thalia although I am unsure if this is enough to warrant deckspace.

I'm still messing around with how I intend to beat the Maverick MU. I have some great card selections, but none of them are really auto-includes. I will have to force through a great deal of playtesting.

I am definitely intrigued by Totem as it shuts of ALL creatures in Maverick which leads me to consider taking out Revokers for it. I know, this seems like blasphemy as I am removing my ability to answer cards like Deed as well as certain combo pieces. However, looking at the meta what are the decks which have been popping up most prominently? Maverick, U/W Stoneblade, UR Delver/Canadian Thresh, Combo (Reanimator/Dredge/Solidarity) with some misc. stuff. Of all these decks the most prominent abilities we need to negate are creature abilities which Totem handles quite nicely. As a DS player I understand quite fully the power of Revoker not only in the utility of his Needle effect but in having an extra beater, however, its also important for us to look at the field and figure out exactly which cards we're afraid of, which NEED to be dealt with, and which we can play around.
Looking at the DTB and the Starcity deck reports I think its most important we deal with creature threats of which Totem handles in one fell swoop. True, we're losing our ability hit cards such as equipment (which is rampant in the meta) but that is the reason my list (as well as many others) also run Shattering Spree.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the route I will take for this Saturday however as I am modifying my deck I am looking at each and every card choice and attempting to decide exactly how important it is and frankly its Revokers turn. So, please feel free to provide arguments for or against its removal. I wish to know exactly which cards you consider mainstream that can't be answered by other hate we run or played around.

Forlorn Egoist

Zupponn

04-18-2012, 04:33 PM

ForlornEgoist

04-18-2012, 05:50 PM

4x Falmetongue Kavu
4x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Anarchy (Sideboard)

=Better Maverick matchup.

Also, I've been thinking that Risky Bet might be better than Reforge the Soul. Fervent Cathar also interests me a little.

How did I forgot FTK? Man, I think I may just run those MD over those friggin Shatterskulls.

Risky Bet definitely seems like a rather reasonable card for drawing.

@ Fervent Cathar: We kind of already have creatures which do that if you're interested: Goblin Rimerunner and Goblin Shortcutter. Albeit neither of these two has Haste, however at least as far as the Rimerunner goes I think there are few enough situations where Haste would be that relevant.

Forlorn Egoist

mercs

04-19-2012, 01:24 AM

Hey guys,

I've been inactive after taking a break from mtg last year, but holy crap. wizards seems to be doing DS some big favors with this new set. Yes, chalice is significantly weakened, but malignus, archwing dragon, bonfire of the damned, and reforge the soul all contribute to really interesting additions that could make dragon stompy fairly strong. plus, uncounterable moons definitely shifts some matchups back into our favor.

Wereodile

04-19-2012, 10:50 AM

How did I forgot FTK? Man, I think I may just run those MD

I have 4 MD and with the Meta the way it is I think it is a must. They help shore up many tough match ups like Maverick.

Zupponn

04-19-2012, 08:04 PM

Here's what I've been running for a little while now, and it seems to be doing well in this rough meta:

4x Flametongue Kavu
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Lord of Shatterskull Pass

4x Blood Moon
2x Seething Song

4x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
4x Chrome Mox

4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
10x Mountain

Sideboard:
4x Anarchy
4x Pyrokinesis
4x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Manriki-Gusari

mercs

04-20-2012, 01:47 AM

Here's what I've been running for a little while now, and it seems to be doing well in this rough meta:
...

I ran a very similar list in some tournaments with decent results too. have u tried out moltensteel in place of RPD? if so, do u prefer RPD a lot more?

Zupponn

04-20-2012, 05:54 PM

Yeah, I've tried out Moltensteel, but I really have little love for it. RPD is just more explosive and doesn't cost life which can be the deciding factor in games, especially when we're also running Ancient Tomb. Others here have tried Moltensteel and like him over RPD, so it's really a personal preference.

Esper3k

04-20-2012, 06:22 PM

Although I have much love for RPD, I think all the RUG Tempo decks in the meta right now make it worse than any of the 4+ toughness guys.

Zupponn

04-20-2012, 06:36 PM

I feel that RPD is better than Moltensteel vs Batterskull though.

ForlornEgoist

04-21-2012, 12:12 AM

Whelp, after much strenuous playtesting I think I've boiled down my deck into what I intend to take to the Starcity IQ tomorrow. Its not quite where I would like it to be, however as I could not obtain the necessary cards for my full-on MUD build this is what I've settled on:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Batterskull

4 Seething Song
2 Blood Moon

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Flametongue Kavu
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Moltensteel Dragon

3 Shattering Spree
4 Pyroblast
4 Powder Keg
4 Anarchy

Overall the list isn't too extraordinary. Until now I've been using that 11th Mountain as RAkroma however based on over an hour of goldfishing I've found myself throwing away otherwise good hands because I was a land short, and seeing as how my list has a higher curve I figured an extra land couldn't hurt.

I struggled somewhat on the SB. The Spree/Pyro/Anarchy we're already guranteed slots. It was the remaining 4, however, that gave me trouble. Now, players who have been following the DS thread know I'm a DS patriot when it comes to Phyrexian Revoker. That having been said, however, after looking at the field I honestly think Keg will be stronger versus the field.
I'm not denying exactly how many viable targets Revoker has in the meta. However, its important to determine which abilities ultimately screw us over and which abilities can either be ignored or played around. The primary combos are Dredge/Reanimator/Solidarity all of which couldn't care less about Revoker (other than Dredge's PImp which isn't really that damaging a target). The primary control MU's would be either Equipment-based (which Spree/Keg answer) or BUG/Jace 2.0. Pyro answers Jace, and while not being able to shut off Deed sucks its ultimately not a highly likely MU that I'll argue Revoker as a must for the sake of the MU. As far as aggro/aggro-control goes, that least RUG/Maverick. In regards to RUG Revoker really has no targets to speak. Maverick, however, does indeed have Mom/Qasali/Ooze/Birds/Hierach/KotR. In my opinion, despite its abundance of targets, the face remains that we only run 4 Revokers and thats too many relevant abilities to answer. True, if we rely on Anarcy we only have to consider green effects, however if it comes to shutting off a creature or killing it, I'd honestly rather remove the threat entirely. Yes, I sacrifice the 2/1 Revoker body, but Keg just seems like a much safer route as it kills their entire field, does minimal damage to us as we run no 1/2 cmc, plus being an artifact means their only option for removal is Qasali which, even with GSZ, isn't guranteed to be drawn in time.

After my head started to go numb I decided to have some fun experimentation time just for the fun of it and I upped the land count to 22, took out my Chrome and in their place added 3 Mox Diamond. I know, silly, right? I decided to try and build DS like Stax deck. It was actually quite fun to playtest as I threw away far fewer hands because I lacked mana. Of course, I think the deck was telling me not to play it like this because every game I goldfished my opening 7 either had 1 Mox/1 Land only, 2 Moxes/1 land, or it was mana flooded and had a single Magus in it. :P Still, pretty fun.

I was absolutely in love with my MUD build and found Etched Champion to be a powerhouse, especially against Maverick, and as such I'm going to attempt to go in early and trade for the remaining 2 Mox Opal's I need, or at the very least borrow them. Pending I suceed, here is the list I will pilot:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
6 Mountain

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Opal
3 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Batterskull

4 Seething Song
2 Blood Moon

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Moltensteel Dragon
2 Flex spots (Still deciding on this; Perhaps I'll do +1 Land/+1 Champion, or maybe +2 FTK I had considered running +2 Cursed Totem but I'm worried about sitting at 19 threats).

Sorry I've been hogging the thread with debate about my deck, however as this is the first ever Starcity I'll be taking DS to I'm rather nervous/timid. When I've tested my Deadguy Ale build against the meta I've almost always topped out with a higher-than-average win ratio. Even Enchantress faired rather well. DS is possibly one of the worst decks I could take into this meta. :P

Well, I'd best be heading to sleep. Good fortunes, everybody!

Forlorn Egoist

mercs

04-21-2012, 06:35 AM

ForlornEgoist

04-21-2012, 10:39 AM

How does FTK have anti-synergy w/Lodestone? :confused: If its because Lodestone denies their ability to play spells, well, FTK has always worked fine with 3sphere and considering Lodestone doesn't stack on top of 3sphere (sad panda) I haven't really tested anything real annoying.

As far as the Songs go, yes, It can be somewhat annoying, however I rarely begin the game with a T1/2/3 Lodestone. The Song is primarily to provide the acceleration in those first initial turns. After that the Songs are mostly used to drop multiple threats when my hand gets full or to negate some of the costs from Moltensteel. The MUD build honestly relies less on Songs since I don't need the R fixing, and can easily play most everything off Sol lands, 1 Mountain, and/or a Mox.

I just had a thought in regards to the 2 Flex spots in the MUD list. Maybe they should be Phyrexian Metamorph. Copies problem creatures and would probably be my only out to Emmie of which I know at least 2 or 3 people are taking S&T/Hive Mind/SA decks to the SC. Well, whatever.

I'm off to the tourney! Wish me luck, all.

Forlorn Egoist

Zupponn

04-23-2012, 06:29 PM

Hope you had luck, FE.

I just saw that this was spoiled:

Hound of Grislebrand
Creature - Elemental Hound 2/2
Double Strike
Undying

Moonsilver Spear might be something to look into also.

Vacrix

04-23-2012, 07:08 PM

Reforge the Soulseems like it could be pretty good as a 2 of in those flex slots. Hitting 3RR is nothing for this deck.

ForlornEgoist

04-23-2012, 07:43 PM

Well, overall I am rather exhausted.

As it turns out Monsters Den was having its monthly 1.5 Big Legacy w/dual prizes so only 10 people showed up to the IQ, all of which were people I play with at our weekly Legacy. Knowing that they were all going into the field playing mid-range Uxx control I felt rather confident in my ability to handle the field. Here is what it broke down into: Burn, Dredge, Rock, Canadian Thresh, Canadian Thresh, Thopter Combo, Lands, BUG, Maverick, Dragon Stompy (Me).

I went 0-4.

Looking at the field I felt rather confident beforehand so all the jitters about playing my deck went out the window, I fiddled with the SB, and registered my MUD build. I didn't take notes, so this will be short descriptions which, considering I got blown out totally, should be fast.

Round 1 Dredge
Game One: I know hes Dredge beforehand so I keep a hand thats something like Tomb, Opal, SSG, 3sphere, Jitte, Mountain, Magus. He T1 PImp, I T1 Moon. This shuts off his Gemstone, and the turn after his Cephalid. This proves moot, however, as by T3 he must've had some type of GOD deck stack because he nixes all 4 Bridges off a single Dredge effect and soon after gets his DR. So, I have to find a way to deal with Multiple Zombies and a DR 10+/10+ Golgari. I concede.
SB: -1 Chalice, -2 Bskull, +3 Revoker
Game Two: I T1 Revoker ->PImp which was smart as it turns out that was his planned T1 play. I get a T2 Jitte. T2 He does something to the effect of Breakthrough and gets DR/a bunch of dredges into the yard, including 2 Narco. I equip Jitte, swing (no blocks) and use 1 of the counters to kill a Narco. T3 he dredges getting 3 Bridges into the 'yard. After his last Dredge card from the spell he cast I used last Jitte token to kill my own Revoker, Exiling Bridges. He continues to dredge, gets his other 2 Narco, DR some creature from Ascension that when it or another creature ETB it deals 4 damage. I'm not sure what it was or how the effect reads, I just know I lose.

Round Two- Burn
Game 1: I open up with a T1 Moon. He drops a Mesa, taps it, then Bolts me for 3. Wow. I had kept a hand with 1 Tomb as my Sol land, and already tapped it on T1, so sitting at 15 already against a burn deck. Not good. Once I realizes hes on burn I look at my hand and instantly realize I'm fucked. I've got (after my draw): Furnace, Moltensteel (drew), Molteensteel, Lodestone, Mox, Jitte. Okay, obviously I need to get an active Jitte online asap. I drop my Furnace/Mox/Jitte, and pass. He Chains/Suspends Spike, passes. I draw another Tomb (sighs) Drop my Lodestone, pass. Spike hits Golem, he bolts Golem, drops a Lavamancer and passes. I topdeck a Magus, drop it, figure I'd go balls to the wall and equip it, putting me at 3. He topdecks a land and opts to Burn my face with Lavamancer, dropping me to 1. I swing, get Jitte counters. At E0T he burns me with a spell,. I use Jitte counters (?). He just responded with "Oh.... okay." Basically we continue such an exchange for 10 minutes. Apparantly Burn is the only deck he has, and hes not used to playing in a competitive meta where people actually have answers to his deck. Eventually, however, he topdecks Fireblast he needs to kill me off.
B]SB[/B]: -2 BMoon, -2 Moltensteel (NOTE: I was iffy on removing the Bmoon as they shut off my Tomb pain however I knew that I needed to be as aggro as possible so I added in Revokers. Figured they were a creature and that maybe I'd luck out and be able to nix Lavamancer or Cursed Scroll.
Game Two: I draw into Tomb, Song, Song, SSG, SSG, BSkull, Revoker. T1 Bskull seemed Legit against Burn, so I went for it. T2 He drops a mountain, Suspends Spike, passes. I swing in for 4, going up to 22. T2 Spike eats my face for 3, then he Smash to Smithereens my Bskull. OUCH! After this burn just eats my face all day long. --'

Round 3- Thopter Combo
The match started with the Judge asking to look at both our decks, so he and I spend 10 minutes just with idle banter. He had just gotten blown out by the Lands player who managed to stall out G1 to, like, 45 minutes. Then G2 he pulled off a 5 minute win. WTF. Seeing him play that round was what it must seem like when people watch me pretty much say random mana counts and throw cards on the table with my Enchantress deck.
Game One: Not much to say in Game 1. He counters my initial lock pieces before getting his combo online.
SB: -2 Moons/-4 Magus (because I saw his Lands match and knew he had around 6-8 basics), -1 Song, +4 Pyroblast, +3 Spree (Couldn't find any other cards to remove for Keg). I also know I sidded in Revokers by dunno what I took out.
Game Two: This match is where I completely get all control over him. I drop a T1 Tomp/SSG-> 3sphere forcing him to FoW->Thopter. He drops a land, Bstorm, passes. I drop a land Furnace, pass. He attempts a T2 Thopter. I PBlast, it resolves. I drop a T3 Moltensteel, it resolves. He drops a land T3. I drop a Jitte, he spell pierces (I Pblast). I attempt to equip Moltensteel, he StP. He drops a Jace 2.0 T4 (I Exile SSG->Pblast), countering Jace. I then establish an active Jitte on some creature and win. Wow, I lucked out on the Pblasts.
Game 3: He drops a Land, pass. I T1 Chalice @ 1, it resolves. He drops a land T2, Bstorm, passes. I attempt a Chalice @ 2. In response he destroys Chalice @ 1 (I forgot how) and Chalic @ 2 resolves. Now, here is where my deck totally trolls me. Chalice @ 2 literally shuts off nearly his entire deck with exception to Clique, Jace, Force, and cantrips. I considered it a win. My deck decides troll me and gives me nothing but 2 drops (Revoker Jitte). He gets a Jace 2.0 online LITERALLY one turn before I had planned to drop a Chalice @ 4. I literally spent 10-11 turns drawing nothing but lands and then he gets Jace and pulls of ultimate. Seriously, 10+ turns of nothing but lands. I neede JUST 1 creature, but nope. Ugh!

Round 4- Canadian Thresh
At this point I know I won't even get prizes if I go 2-0 against him but I figure I'd play considering this shit cost me $25 so I should get the most of it.
Pretty much both G1/2 have him counter my first 2 spells with him getting, like, T4/5 2 Goyfs/2 Thresh Mongooses.

So.... yeah. I'm definitely in the "dismantle this deck, treade off the pieces, and build UR Painter," kind of mood. Here are my thoughts:

The MUD build isn't necessarily a bad build, but it shines more in heavy control metas like back in Countertop days. We need acceleration, so relying on Chrome Mox is necessary. EChampion is a powerhouse, but it can be rather annoying to get Metalcraft. Honestly, the meta is just at a point where I can't find a build with which to be content. I think I'll just drop DS for a while, and spend some time messing around with Deadguy and UR Painter.

Forlorn Egoist

goblinroughtider

04-24-2012, 12:16 AM

So with Mad Prophet being spoiled for Avacyn Restored I wonder if anyone thinks it could help with getting dead cards out of your hand. I like the fact that it has haste and loots. Any thoughts or has anyone else seen something else that will help Dragon Stompy? I just started playing Stompy and I am loving it so far.

Zupponn

04-24-2012, 01:22 AM

I'm not sure if the prophet is really that great, but I can list the things that I've seen that look interesting to me so far:

Reforge the Soul
Hound of Grislebrand
Dangerous Wager
Bonfire of the Damned
Moonsilver Spear

Esper3k

04-24-2012, 06:10 PM

@Forlorn: In your G1 against Burn, were you still taking damage from your Tombs after you Blood Moon'd? I'm referring to when you said you played your Magus and equipped it with the Jitte, going to 3.

ForlornEgoist

04-25-2012, 08:13 PM

@ Esper:

I may be slightly off in the play-to-play breakdown. I just know that I eventually went down to either 3 or 2, within range of 1 burn spell.

Forlorn Egoist

NecroYawgmoth

05-22-2012, 10:19 PM

I seriously consider Cavern of Souls for this deck.

Uncounterable Magus of the Moon? Sign me in.
It also makes uncounterable:
all the Werewolves, Hanweir Watchkeep being the best of them.
Taurean Mauler
Kargan Dragonlord
Priest of Urabrask
Jaya Ballard

Basically the only drawback it has is that it cant provide {R} with a Sol-Land on turn 2 for Blood Moon.

I think Sword of War and Peace is the best Sword for the deck. It grants lifegain and fast beats, and is RIDICULOUS with Priest.

I don't quite get all the werewolf-hatery of you guys. You don't want that your opponent plays spells. They most likely don't do, so they flip and are fast beats. Even if you don't like them you must agree that Hanweir Watchkeep looks kinda good for it's cost.

on other AVR-cards:

While I really love Bonfire of the Damned I don't think it is good for us. The only card that could see play imo is Zealous Conscripts but only as a finisher or in a meta full of S&T decks.

regards...

Zupponn

05-29-2012, 03:11 AM

The werewolves were too inconsistent for me in playtesting. They're never flipped the right way when you need them. The Watchkeep is basically just a Gathan Raiders, but I would rather have Gathan Raiders because of how our deck works. Personally, I don't use either though. I prefer creatures with abilities over just a big body.

Tacosnape

05-29-2012, 03:39 AM

Explain to me why exactly we don't like Bonfire of the Damned, again?

Dragon Stompy is actually a fair choice right now for a deck, for two reasons. One is that Chalice of the Void is solid as balls right now against 2 of the 3 top decks in the format. The second is Bonfire of the Damned. This is a real thing.

First of all, it has very little drawback. It doesn't clog up your hand. It can get out of said hand for a mere 1 mana if need be, and it imprints on Chrome Mox like everything else in the world. It's also tolerable when cast for one. And when you miracle it turn 3/4, it's pretty sick.

Secondly, it's good against the right decks. It handles a lot of fringe aggro decks, can sweep Mongeese/Delvers, and is a behemoth against Maverick if they don't have a Teeg. Maverick's a moderately sketchy matchup anyway. You don't really ever win if they go first and have a Noble Hierarch, and some of the less explosive hands can still be a struggle, so anything that helps is a good thing.

With the tools it has, Dragon Stompy CAN manhandle almost every deck it runs across. It won't do so consistently, of course. It never does. But it's capable of it. Trinisphere is a monster against RUG Delver and Dredge both, which are two of the top decks around. Chalice is great against Maverick and RUG Delver, and actually fairly decent against Sneaky Show on occasion against the dig. Moon effects hurt RUG Delver and can occasionally mess with Maverick. Bonfire hurts any deck with small dudes. Show and Tell's your toughest matchup right now, and it's not unfeasible to overboard for them to get by.

EDIT: FWIW, I'd play MUD over this right now ALL DAY long. Cavern of Souls naming Constructs is >> This entire deck.

bganns

06-01-2012, 12:49 PM

What you guy's think of the news creatures that wiz realesead (Hound of griselband and the new M13 Fênix), i realy think that they could work in the deck, even more in the Jitte builds and the Mountain Yeti is a monster in that build too.

Ace/Homebrew

06-01-2012, 09:01 PM

Dragon Stompy is actually a fair choice right now for a deck, for two reasons. One is that Chalice of the Void is solid as balls right now against 2 of the 3 top decks in the format. The second is Bonfire of the Damned. This is a real thing.
I've been collecting DS pieces for the last few weeks because I felt it would be strong against the 1-drop decks and the 3-color decks that are seeing heavy play.

FWIW, I'd play MUD over this right now ALL DAY long. Cavern of Souls naming Constructs is >> This entire deck.
Okay... granted. But I don't want to play MUD =)
Taco, what would your Dragon Stompy build look like today? I agree with your assessment of Bonfire of the Damned. Do you feel Koth of the Hammer is a viable threat for DS to play?

Zupponn

06-02-2012, 03:03 AM

Koth, while a really good card, just doesn't fit into the Dragon Stompy shell too well. Bonfire of the Damned, on the other hand, is the butts.

Vandalize

06-02-2012, 04:28 PM

Hey. I've been toying arround with Dragon Stompy, simply because I love Chalice of the Void (and how it screws Legacy). I've been tunning a list, and this is what I've reached:

10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Flametongue Kavu

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Koth of the Hammer
3 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Bonfire of the Damned

SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Anarchy
SB: 3 Powder Keg
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 2 Chaos Warp
SB: 1 Bonefire of the Damned

Any comments or advices I should take? Thanks in advance.

Tacosnape

06-02-2012, 04:56 PM

I'll go a step further and just flat out say that Koth of the Hammer is a bad card, period. Also on the suck list - The new Phoenix, and Hound of Griselbrand.

Hound of Griselbrand is close, but just doesn't do enough. He's a five turn clock by himself - That's pretty shitty for Dragon Stompy. The ONLY thing I like about him is that he's great at eating Flametongue Kavu fire. But since the metagame's pretty bad for Flametongue Kavu also, I'd just skip the whole group.

Without just committing to MUD, here's what I'd play and why:

Manabase (See Below): You can run 11 Mountains if you really want. You can flirt with dropping a Spirit Guide or a Seething Song. It won't make that much difference in the long run. Nothing's ever convinced me that the deck's going to magically not lose to itself a bunch, so I go with what I feel is optimalized to make it just win to itself a bunch as well.
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song

Disruption and Non-Dudes: Chalice is pretty solid right now, as is Trinisphere. Blood Moon and Bonfire counts are more metagame guesses, and I'd be willing to gamble on 3 Bonfire/2 Moon in some metas. But Blood Moon's still a complete behemoth against RUG Delver, so stick with it.

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Blood Moon
2 Bonfire of the Damned

Guys: I still am not impressed enough with anything to not run Gathan Raiders and Arc-Slogger. Raiders' Hellbent Acceleration is so so crucial to damage races involving Dragon, and Arc-Slogger's the god of clocks. Either he's a 3-turn clock or he's a mid-size body with a built in path-clearing ability. Sulfur Elemental makes the cut for being incredible against Maverick's Moms and Thalias.

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc-Slogger

SB: Most of this is pretty self-explanatory. Crypt for Dredge/Reanimator. Revoker for anything you need it for, such as Sneak Attack. The random 1-ofs are increases to maindecks to up your chances, and Red Blasts are there for Show and Tell and the occasional Merfolk/High Tide deal.

4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Trinisphere
1 Blood Moon
1 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Red Elemental Blast

bganns

06-02-2012, 11:31 PM

I'm playing a hellband list too, but i realy dont like Koth and Swords in the deck and Sloger (heavy agro meta here read Maverick rs) so instead a play with 2 FTV and 2 Revokers main and realy considering put 2 Masticores in the main in the place of Molten Steal Dragons.

Zupponn

06-03-2012, 01:44 AM

@Tacosnape: Does that list have any testing put into it, or is it just a theoretical list? I'm not sure about a lot of the numbers you have there.

ForlornEgoist

06-03-2012, 09:43 AM

@Zuppon:

The list Taco is sporting is/was the standard Hellbent-DS list 1 or 2 years ago during/pre-Alara (Minus the Bonfire, of course). The numbers he has are correct for the build and I know hes been rocking the Hellbent list for quite some time so I think hes accurate when he provides opinions as to its effectiveness.

That having been said, I've always been more more attached to the MUD-style which sacrifices early game speed in exchange for mid-late game strength. I won't delve into a rant about the pros/cons of either list as I tend to do this every time the debate arises, however I will say that while Sulfur Elemental does have definite advantages, I am still reluctant to run a list that is susceptible to burn. At the very least I think each person should consider Elemental in their leasts as he does answer Mom/Thalia.

Forlorn Egoist

Esper3k

06-03-2012, 12:34 PM

As good as Sulfur Elemental is right now, is it really better than something like Anarchy though?

Tacosnape

06-03-2012, 01:07 PM

Esper3k

06-03-2012, 01:25 PM

Against a nonwhite deck? Sulfur Elemental's infinitely better. Against Maverick? It's 3 mana versus 5 if a Thalia's out. And I'd rather have guys that swing against Maverick. Sulfur swings and helps screw up that ridiculous slow grindy defensive attack thing Maverick does so so well The sideboard spot could be Anarchy, if you wanted. Or you know. Something else completely.

Gonna throw this out here: Don't be scared of Burn. We do run four Chalice of the Voids and X Trinispheres main.

The list I posted is what I would run if I played DS right now. Not going to lie and say it's tested in the current metagame, but I know the deck pretty well. I play it for the Hellbent mechanic and the deck's frequent ability to create irreversible game states by turn 1 or 2.

Also, I tested new Hypergenesis a little. I'mma go out on a limb and say that Hypergenesis is going to be a very, very real deck, which makes Dragon Stompy look a little better. Chalice and Trinisphere stop Hypergen (But not S&T, and it can/will show up in Hypergen), but still the situation improves a little there.

Oh yeah, I was mainly talking about Anarchy in the board vs Sulfur Elemental. Problem I have with Sulfur Elemental is that it doesn't deal with Knight, which is one of our biggest problems. I am less fearful of Thalia because typically most of our non-creature spells (Trinisphere/Chalice/Blood Moon) have to be played out early anyways to have any real effectiveness.

What makes you think Hypergenesis is going to be a real deck? I love Hypergenesis, but it seems like Sneaky Show is just better right now due to being able to play Brainstorm & Ponder? Plus, Stifle makes Hypergenesis a sad panda.

Zupponn

06-03-2012, 09:33 PM

I personally would probaly go down to 3 Arc-Sloggers in Taco's list and use FTK or LOSP in the main in place of Sulfur Elemental. I'm thinking Elemental is more sideborad material that could be brought in in place of the FTKs or LOSPs. I'm also not sure about the necessity of the Raiders to be able to play RPD. RPD stands on its own as good because of what we do. If the Raiders are good enough by themselves, then I think they deserve more consideration. Many times we only play 1-3 creatures all game, so I've been trying to make sure that those creatures are as good as possible so that they can earn us more wins.

ForlornEgoist

06-11-2012, 04:09 PM

So, I recently went to the monthly big Legacy here and I noticed a great deal of Maverick players in the meta, as well as how bad 3sphere is in general against curves like Maverick. So, I was thinking that perhaps if you really wanted to punish Maverick and it was prevalent in your meta perhaps SBing Damping Matrix might be an option. It literally shuts off every creature in their deck. I'm not sure how effective it would be as it doesn't kill already-large KotR/Ooze but still, being able to stop KotR tutors, Ooze's pump, Qasali's disenchant, SFM's Bskull cheat, AND Mom's protection seems like it at least makes the card worth considering.

Of course Matrix doesn't replace Anarchy, not to mention it also shuts off our equipment, at least it provides us with more than 3 slots to hose down Maverick.

Forlorn Egoist

bganns

06-11-2012, 04:20 PM

Cursed Totem is beter tham Damping no? it's cheap and lock the anoying Hierarch, and against equipments he alredy have the bigest artifact hate movepool off all colors.

ForlornEgoist

06-11-2012, 05:05 PM

..... WOW! I can't believe I just had that stoner moment, especially since I believe I suggested Totem a page or so ago. Yep. Nevermind about Dtrix. Thanks for pointing that out.

Forlorn Egoist

bganns

06-11-2012, 05:23 PM

Yeah, you sugested it two pages ago, if i'm not wrong, and i buyed then in the same day i read your post, and that's why i don't get the ideia of using matrix rsrsrs.

bganns

06-21-2012, 12:44 PM

Hey guys new dragon spoiled what do you think? against esper he's a machine but against the rest?

Ace/Homebrew

06-21-2012, 01:08 PM

Beat me to it!

For reference:

Thundermaw Hellkite 3RR
Creature - Dragon
Flying, Haste
When Thundermaw Hellkite enters the battlefield, it deals 1 damage to each creature with flying your opponents control. Tap those creatures.
5/5

Seems like a potential replacement for Arc-Slogger in the Hellbent lists. It all but guarantees hitting your opponent for 5 at least once right away.

jancz

06-26-2012, 02:28 PM

I really wish that dragon had his ability triggered like the titans so as to make him more viable against being chump blocked by delvers.

But he is certainly an interesting choice who warrants play testing. At the moment I like the control element that Slogger brings to the table though I may want replacements for moltensteel/Rakdos Pit Dragon.

jancz

07-23-2012, 02:18 AM

I was just at a tournament in philly at RedCaps Corner.

Played the following Deck and Went 3-3 and finished 27th out of 45

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon

4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Gathan Raiders
3 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
1 Moltensteel Dragon
3 Arc-Slogger

4 Flametongue Kavu
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
Please forgive the somewhat Adhoc Report. I didn't take good notes and its been a long day.

Matchups
Round 1: Esper Control
1-2
First game he was able to land an early Stoneforge that dropped a Batterskull I just couldn't answer after he put Jitte on it.

Second game I was able to overwhelm him with creatures.

Last game I faced all the removal and didn't have a chalice out. At some point he got Jace and ended my hopes at winning.

Round 2: Affinity with Stoneforge
2-0
First game a blood moon shut down his Inkmoths and I arcslogged down to 6 cards while annihilating all his creatures at some point. Was able to put it away with slogger

Second game I sided in revokers hitting Cranial Plating and overwhelmed with creatures.

Round 3:RWB Zombies.
0-2
First game I was caught off guard as I saw a swamp in response to a moon effect. Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawlers and blood artist and bitter blossom overwhelmed me. I had to hit a carrion feeder for 8 with slogger at some point and then got beat with bitterblossom + Goblin Bombardment.

Second game I went with a hand with more creatures and tried to race. Tragic slip hurts a lot more then I thought it would. At some point he had 7 tokens on the board and I could have swung with a Lord of Shatterskull pass @level 6 if I drew a mana source

Round 4: MUD
0-2
First game I was locked down with wasteland then a wurmcoil got out and Ate my face.

Second game I tried to rush him down with a first turn molten steel but again saw a wurmcoil ruin my plans.

Round 5:RWB Zombies again.
2-0
Unlike the last guy this guy couldn't seem to get his combo down well. Crushed him twice with creatures.

Round 6:Weird R/W Goblin Trenches Lingering Souls wut.dec
2-1

Round one I saw some weird stuff including lightning helix + Lightning bolt plus goblin trenches and got taken for a spin

Games 2 and 3 Moon T1 shut off his mana supply completely.

Thoughts: My moons just didn't hit where I thought they would hit. Instead of scores of RUG delvers and Maverick I saw an MUD,Crazy "I have a swamp first turn" Zombies,and Esper with Counters + Path to Exile and Swords to plowshares. Perhaps it wasn't my deck so much as the meta? If my 8 moon effects aren't hitting what they need to hit why run dragon stompy at all? Probably a bad meta call on my part. I may look for a more general deck soon. I have a burn deck lined up and that can sometimes sneak in wins.

Other thoughts: Thundermaw hellkite is apparently still a really valuble card. A shame I won't get to test him in dragon stompy soon. Arc-Slogger is Really an MVP. Some of the other creatures fail to affect the board as a whole but I am always happy to see seething song + slogger in my hands. I will probably up the count to 4 in the future.

ToasTer86

07-27-2012, 05:52 AM

Hey everyone,

I just registered today and this is my first post.

I read all 43 pages :) thanks to all for all your insight to Dragon stompy.
Tomorrow I have a tournament with 22 players. I am going to play with this list.

I do not know how to link cards but everyones knowledge is pretty high of the dragonstompy cards so I hope ppl have some comments to my list:

MAIN DECK:

10x mountain
4x City of traitors
4x Ancient tombs

4x Simian spirit guide
4x Chrome Mox
4x Seething Song

4x Chalice of the void
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Trinisphere
3x Blood Moon

4x Priest of Urabrask
3x Lord of the shatter skull pass
3x Moltensteel dragon
2x Arc slogger

2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Sword of body and mind

SIDE BOARD:

2x Anarchy
3x Pyrokenesis
3x Pyroblast
1x Blood Moon
1x Trinisphere
3x Tormod Crypt
2x Shattering Spree

When i was playing legacy in 2009 - 2010 I had the standard hellbend list. I am not so much a fan of the hellbend. To situational.
I prefer moltensteel instead of Rakdoss, because of many delvers decks in my current meta that can Lighting Bolt even when i have Moon effects going.
LoTP I am not sure if I really like this guy yet, but only running 4 hellbends Gathan Raider would not be good. Further more 5 mana for 3/3 body - 3 mana for 2/2 + discard isnt something i really like.
I choose 3x 3sphere cause i really had top decking them.
7 moon effects cause I normally grab one in my opening hand getting to much more isnt good.
2x arc slogger, i just cant let go of this guy. Great if you get him quick and running
I go for the priests instead of Tauren mauler so i can get my equipment going quickly. Really love the SoBM for evading goyfs and knights.

Just one question. If i have 39 cards in my library can I shoot 4 times with Arc-slogger finish of the opponent ? I know I would kill myself with my next draw. But is it even possible?

Thanks in advance for any responses

trivial_matters

07-27-2012, 06:29 AM

Just one question. If i have 39 cards in my library can I shoot 4 times with Arc-slogger finish of the opponent ? I know I would kill myself with my next draw. But is it even possible?

That would work only if you had 40 cards in your library. If you have 39 you can activate Slogger's ability only three times. Exiling the cards is part of the ability's cost. If you can't remove 10 cards, you can't activate the ability.

ToasTer86

07-27-2012, 06:48 AM

That would work only if you had 40 cards in your library. If you have 39 you can activate Slogger's ability only three times. Exiling the cards is part of the ability's cost. If you can't remove 10 cards, you can't activate the ability.

Thanks for explaining that. some ppl say other wise that is why I asked

What about my list what do you think?

Esper3k

07-27-2012, 10:24 AM

Just curious, but why are you running SoBM over a more aggressive sword like SoFI or a more defensive one like SoLS?

Milling your opponent can be a really risky proposition in a world of Reanimator, Tarmogoyf, and Knight of the Reliquary.

Also, you can use the [cards] tag to link cards.

ToasTer86

07-27-2012, 01:56 PM

Well at this moment I dont have SoFI. only SoBM and SoLS

Esper3k

07-27-2012, 02:39 PM

Gotcha. I'd play SoLS then. The most common removal spells in the format are Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt. Having a SoLS on one of your guys will protect them from both if you don't have a Chalice @ 1 out.

ToasTer86

07-27-2012, 03:32 PM

Koby

07-27-2012, 04:17 PM

I'm not sure why KotH is deemed bad in this deck. He provides a layer of consistency, as well as pressure and the off-acceleration that you would want. In the list I ran 18 months ago, he seemed to contribute to a number of the wins the deck was able to get. This was usually in conjunction with Moon effects.

Esper3k

07-27-2012, 04:33 PM

I was fine with Koth as well. I also liked Revokers since it gave you something other at Chalice @ 1 to play on T1 when you open with a Sol land but not another T1 mana source.

On top of that, Revoker naming Hierarch makes your Blood Moons a lot nastier against Maverick.

ForlornEgoist

07-27-2012, 09:54 PM

In regards to Koth I think it can be broken down simply that he isn't a priority threat. In your opening 7 how often do you really give him first picks in terms of hate? Moon or CotV are typically first selections followed either by a second lock or a series of creature threats. Koth, in my experience, is typically one of my last selections for cards to use.
Not only this, he doesn't have that auto-target that Liliana or Jace have nor does he immediately affect the board state. This means that if the opponent is far ahead of you in tempo or threats Koth is a moot card to be cast. Extra aggro isn't necessarily bad, but when the opponent is sitting with a pumped up KotR/Ooze or a Reanimated/Cheated creature, heck, even a mass of tokens (Dredge/Miracle) then suddenly getting an extra creature is useless and can even be a liability as it gives the opponent the ability to kill off your already unstable manabase.
His second ability ultimately only helps when you have an outlet such as RPD to pump the mana into, and even then its dependant on you having more than 1 Mountain which doesn't always happen when you need it.
His third ability is quite powerful for us as it resolves one of our prominent issues of lack-of-removal however the weaknesses of his first two abilities, the fact that they do nothing to affect the board state or give you extra utility, means that you need to keep Koth alive for several turns. If you're desperate to get his ability to pull yourself out of a pit, its doubtful the opponent will let him live 3 turns, and if you're ahead of the opponent then his ability is win-more.

If hes won games for you, congratulations. I'm sure thats more than many of us can say, but frankly Koth ultimately is a card that does little to resolve any of our decks primary weaknesses, nor does he shore up bad MU or improve other MU. Hes a cute card, particularly in those rare instances when you ROFLstomp an opponent with him, but hes just not strong enough to warrant a position IMO.

Forlorn Egoist

ToasTer86

07-31-2012, 05:49 AM

Regarding KoTH,

I must say I totally agree with Forlorn. He has been usefull a few times.
But this has also been when I already was winning, had my locks down and happily stomping them to death.
He however has never changed a loosing game to a win. If you play him solo vs any creature he will just die / slowly die and you will never get that emblem up.
I removed him from my deck because of this.

The only planeswalker that has been somewhat usefull in the past (for me) is: [Chandra Ablaze (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Chandra%20Ablaze)] her +1 ability can be nice if you run her in a hellbend version + Seething Song. Her -2 ability can be usefull if your creatures got removed or your out of fuel. Never was able to cast her -7 ability. But also this card was situational and i just ran 1 for funsies. But she has also been removed from my deck.

What do you guys think of [karn (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Karn%20Liberated)] casting the 7 mana can be done with Seething song. He basicly gives us 2 swords - or discard

Esper3k

07-31-2012, 10:12 AM

I don't think Karn is terrible (better than the Chandras, imo).

7 seems a little much, but if you can cast him, I think he'd be pretty nasty.

ForlornEgoist

07-31-2012, 01:11 PM

I doubt Karn is realistic for this deck. Period. I simply say that because 7 mana is beyond annoying to cast. As it stands many builds can barely support the 5 mana necessary for Slogger, Kazuul, or Covetous, let alone the 6 for a Chandra or 7 for a Karn. Yeah, if the game plays out to the mid-late game he'd be alright, but our deck hates dragging a game out. We WANT to end the game as soon as possible because our deck only becomes weaker the longer the game plays out.

Even my original build which focused on a stronger midgame worked on keeping my highest creatures costing around 4 (Lodestone, Moltensteel, etc.). Throwing in cards to help you later in the game become a self-fulfilling prophecy because now you've remove cards that are strongest in the early game, forcing your deck to try and survive until you draw that 1 card you added.

Karn is just too expensive to be useful.

Forlorn Egoist

L10

08-20-2012, 02:53 AM

How has this deck been fairing in the current meta game? With all the mono-color (elves, merfolk, goblins, DnT) and duo-color (maverick, uw stoneblade, uw miracle) decks, it seems many decks can simply dodge our moon effects quite effectively. Still, this deck looks very fun, so I want to give it a shot. Any suggestions are welcome. This is my current setup.

// Mana
10 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

// Beats (Werewolves)
4 Kruin Outlaw
4 Instigator Gang
4 Hanweir Watchkeep

// Beats + Removal
4 Sulfur Elemental
4 Flametongue Kavu

// Disruption
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Damping Matrix
3 Blood Moon

Damping Matrix seems pretty amazing. It harasses KotR, Mom, Ooze, Jitte, Batterskull, Top, Stoneforge, Griselbrand, Pridemage, MUD.dec, and a bunch of random stuff. Trinisphere is still good, of course, just not sure if that's what Dragon Stompy needs right now. Definitely SB material against combo and RUG Delver.

Since I am using Damping Matrix, the Hellbent route seemed silly, so I opted to use the next best thing: Werewolves! Werewolves are not bad, just a tad inconsistent. I may try to fit in Taurean Mauler or Pyrostatic Pillar to discourage people from casting spells.

I also wanted some form of removal. I decided to go for Flametongue Kavu and Sulfur Elemental. Sulfur Elemental can kill Mom, Thalia, and tokens, so he seems relavent. Plus, I can pull combat shenanigans with Flash. Flametongue Kavu deals four damage, just enough for Batterskull. With Damping Matrix, Batterskull becomes useless.

So yes, this is my current list and is subjected to change. Any suggestions are welcome. I am not terribly excited about Sulfur Elemental in the MD, but he fits perfectly in the SB.

Zupponn

08-27-2012, 03:45 AM

Here's something along the lines of what I would run now that we've been given a few goodies:

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
4x Flametongue Kavu
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Thundermaw Hellkite
3x Blood Moon
4x Seething Song
4x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain

Sideboard:
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Anarchy

I think that Thundermaw Hellkite takes the place that Arc-Slogger or Covetous Dragon had in the old versions. And along with Bonfire of the Damned it's just too good not to run. I like the look of the deck, but only have playtested it a little bit, so numbers might be off. I really like it though, and feel like it's the way to go in the future.

Entromancer

10-08-2012, 09:23 PM

I'd like to hear how this deck is performing. Its a blast to play...in goldfishing. Zuppon, why not run Moltensteel Dragon or Instigator Gang in place of Rakdos Pit Dragon? Instigator Gang seems like he'd shine in this sort of deck. Also, Zuppon, have you considered -2 Bonfire +2 Sword of Fire and Ice?

JMLL

10-09-2012, 07:41 AM

So I went with a MichaelP (from Mtgsalvation forums) variant of the Dragon Stompy deck, with some changes I may discuss now, after the deck:

Creatures 17
4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
4 thundermaw hellkite
3 moltensteel dragon
1 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
1 jaya ballard, task mage
Artifacts: 12
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
4 chrome mox
Other Spells: 10
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 seething song
1 pillage
4 stone rain
Enchantments: 3
3 blood moon
Lands: 18
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
10 mountain
Sideboard:
2 pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Koth of the hammer
2 phyrexian revoker
2 pyrokinesis
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 faerie macabre
2 anarchy

Changes I did to the MichaelP List:
-3 Pillage
3 Stone Rain
This was due to availability and avoiding the RR requirement: I only had 1 Pillage but on testing it was hard to get the RR for the Pillage
-1 Jaya Ballard
1 Lord of Shaterskull Pass
This is also to avoid the RR, although now I see it was a failure, the lord is not what I expected it to be.
-1 Moltensteel Dragon
1 Koth of the Hammer
I know that the dragon ends the game pretty quickly also, but I find Koth harder to kill, and I already added a "body" to my team with the change above. The main reason for the change was to take out an artifact and maybe add something more "stampable" to use for the Chrome Mox, if needed. Sincerely, I had this issue during the tournament also.

Side changes were availability of Revokers and I thought a Koth would be awesome Vs control. I was wrong, you don't need that, you need things that go faster, not Late Game. If you get to Late Game, you've lost anyway.

Performance

I decided to run this deck because is (accept it) more "brainless" that most of the decks that have a chance against combo. I wanted to kill Combo and Canadian, so I chose this deck. I ended 3-2, losing only to 2 TOP8'ers (they battled in Top8 and one got to finals, where he conceeded).

R1: 2-0 Canadian.
It was an "easy" win as I started 2nd both games but I could drop a Chalice G1 and a Trini G2 that gave me the games. In G2, I dropped the Chalice T1, he does pierce, I go Simian+REB, he goes Daze and I discard another simian to pay for it. Thank god he didn't have anything else.
R2: 0-2 Zombardment:
He started with Fetch>Swamp>Inquision, taking out my only red in my hand (Simian) so I had to stamp a Dragon in the Chrome mox in order to play the newly drawn Magus. He played dudes that kept taking my lives away and when I played the Moltensteel he had removal for it. I saw no oterh wincons.
G2, almost the same, no wincons for me, so I lost
R3: 2-1 Canadian:
If you drop a Chalice to Canadian, there's a good chance of winning. I did G1 and a Blood Moon T1 in G3, and lost G2 to all the agression possible.
R4: 0-2 Bant:
I can be quick here: T1 Chalice? FOW. T2 Trinity: Pierce. Noble and Reliquary did it fast GG. G2: Blood Moon T1? FoW. T2 Trinisphere? Pierce. Vendillion ended shortly after.
R5: 2-0 Reanimator:
Chalice at 1 and Trini shortly after can punish a lot. Then the Moltensteel ended the game quickly. G2: Magus did the job for me.

BEST:
- Winning Combo and Canadian, the purpose of the Deck
- Attacking with a Moltensteel with me at 12 and him at 15 and kill him that turn (4+5 (seething)+1(R)+5 (10 life)).
- Playing a deck that didn't punish my brain that much.

WORST:
- Waiting for the winning cards to arrive
- The bad feeling of facing Bant and losing without options.
- Mulligans: 3 to 6 and 1 to 5 in 11 games (3/11 + 1/11) because of mana shortage (shuffling better may help)

I don't know if there's a way of bypassing the losses, maybe there's one, maybe I should play more Vs Control, but I had that feeling of "C'mon, you have 4 in there, give one to me noooow" too many times. I may be too used to play blue :P

Tips and tricks will be welcome, as always.

JMLL

Entromancer

10-09-2012, 10:10 AM

JMML, are you saying that in the future you would remove Lord of Shatterskull Pass etc.?

We have Sword of Fire and Ice for carddraw. If you run something like Zupponn, you could use 2 Bonfire of the Damned and 2 Reforge the Soul.

Ace/Homebrew

10-09-2012, 11:23 AM

Report

Thanks for the report JMLL!
Sounded like top decking a Bonfire of the Damned would have helped against Bant. How useful was Stone Rain? Would you replace them with Pillage or something else?

Would you change or add to the 3 pieces of gravehate in the sideboard?
What sideboard cards did well?
What would you change about your board?

xdavisx

10-09-2012, 01:49 PM

i took this to like 40th something place at scg cincy this weekend. it's not really stompy, but i figured it would be worth the post and give ya guys something to discuss.

4 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
3 Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
4 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Sneak Attack
3 Through the Breach
2 Pyromancy
4 Seething Song
2 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the void
1 Lotus Petal

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
10 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Through the Breach
1 Jaya Ballard Taxe Mage
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
2 Pyroclasm

ForlornEgoist

10-10-2012, 12:30 AM

@xdavis:

Wow.... that's pretty much the standard Mono-Red SA list that was run over 6 years ago (minus the newer creatures, of course).

I'm glad you did a great report (esp. with a Mono R list which is difficult to do in this meta) however, this is the wrong place to post your list. Although you use similar control elements your deck archetype is combo and your game plan is ultimately much different than ours.

I'm pretty sure there's a Mono-Red thread several pages back, otherwise you might consider posting this in the UR Sneaky Show thread.

Forlorn Egoist

Opaco

10-10-2012, 07:07 AM

Speaking about cross-building, checking MUD thread some Godo lists with maindeck Magus started to look to me as some kind of hybrid with Dragon Stompy, so I thoght that it would be interesting to try the other way around, starting with a Dragon Stompy base and changing Songs with permanent sources, max Koths as accelerators/recurring threats and play high-end creatures. I have done little testing, but so far it has the same consistence issues every Stompy list usually faces, but an unanswered Godo or a recurring Batterskull is usually better than conditional hellbent/werewolf creatures or getting a threat killed and waiting for more.

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Blood Moon
3x Trinisphere

4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Chrome Mox
4x Grim Monolith/Thran Dynamo
4x Koth of the Hammer

4x Godo, Bandit Warlord
3x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
4x Steel Hellkite/Wurmcoil Engine/Moltensteel Dragon/Thundermaw Hellkite

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
6-10x Mountain
0-4x Cavern of Souls (human->Godo and Magus)

What do you think?

JMLL

10-10-2012, 10:41 AM

JMML, are you saying that in the future you would remove Lord of Shatterskull Pass etc.?
Yes, sure. I don't feel like it's been a great card. Imho, this deck plays a control game T1-T2 and then flips into a aggro deck and tries to run as hell before the opponent has answers to our threats. The problem is that the opponent may have something on the table when you proceed to lock the game, and you need a way to remove it before winning.
The Lord doesn't do it, it does not help you come back. We need another card to put preassure or defend ourselves.
Out of the bat, Flametongue Kavu may be a real option eventhough you need something to kill on the board or it fires itself. A Mox can be a good place for it if it doesn't fit the board.

We have Sword of Fire and Ice for carddraw. If you run something like Zupponn, you could use 2 Bonfire of the Damned and 2 Reforge the Soul.

Zupponn? Sorry I didn't find this card although I searched for it. The Sword of F&I acts as a carddraw and removal, soemthing you REALLY need. The issue is: Where do I attach it to? I'm already light on creatures. If Godo was cheaper, but CMC 6 is too much.
Talking about Bonfire, it's not a bad option at all, it does what I need it to do, mainly destroy his creatures and deal a bit of damage. Maybe I should try to use it, but beware that I need a PERMANENT wincon in order to win... Reforge may be what I need to refill my hand. I can use it to stamp it on a Mox if I get it Mainhand or turns 1-2. Not a bad idea, needs some study.

Thanks for the report JMLL!
Sounded like top decking a Bonfire of the Damned would have helped against Bant. How useful was Stone Rain? Would you replace them with Pillage or something else?
As posted above, the miracle cards may be good, but I need to make room for them AND keep putting preassure.
Stone Rain was good in the main deck. I didn't have any issue playing it and it made my some decks play counters in order to save their lands from them, so I could easily play other lock pieces. I thought it was a bad G2 play, as I had other cards outside that could fit more into the strategy (REBs, Revoker/Jitte against Zombardment...). Although the REBs were ace, the other cards were not that good, and a Stone rain would have won me that game as I could have destroyed his lonely swamp and let him out of colour. Maybe I sided badly, but I'm sure I need something to push for the win after I played my locks. Pillage wasn't needed for me, I didn't want to destroy an artifact and usually you don't need to. The most annoying one can be a Revoker that stops your Moxes, but you'll be screwed anyway. Maybe an Ingot Chewer, Oxidda Scrapmelter or a Battlehorn may o the job for you and put a body onto the ground so you can slam the opponent.

Would you change or add to the 3 pieces of gravehate in the sideboard?
What sideboard cards did well?
What would you change about your board?
For me, the 3 pieces of GY hate were alright and I wouldn't add more. I played them Vs Reanimator and win G2 easily. It's hard to counter that and it avoids your lock pieces. If you want to add a 4th one feel free, but it's not needed in my meta.
REBs did surprisingly well, More that I expected, and I would add the 4th for sure. Revokers were weak, 2/1 when I needed removal, and I didn't draw into Jitte or Pyrokinesis, so I don't know if they're good or not. The Koth in the side was out all day long, useless card.
Speaking of locks and similar stuff, Defense Grid may shut up a Blue Deck, or force a counter for it (we don't use cards in other turns anyway). This, with a form of removal would be the improvements I suggest, probably the Bonfire.

Thanks for the feedback, let's think about improvements!

JMLL

Ace/Homebrew

10-10-2012, 02:36 PM

Zupponn? Sorry I didn't find this card although I searched for it.

This made me laugh =)
Zupponn (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=668294&viewfull=1#post668294)

I agree with your assessment about the deck's need for a threat. I prefer the hellbent version of this deck but even that needs something more.
I feel that Bonfire of the Damned is exactly what the deck needed to keep up with aggro strategies. I'm just waiting for it to drop to the $20-25 range before getting a playset...

Zupponn

10-11-2012, 12:07 AM

This made me laugh =)
Zupponn (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=668294&viewfull=1#post668294)
:laugh:I'm a card now.

I'd like to hear how this deck is performing. Its a blast to play...in goldfishing. Zuppon, why not run Moltensteel Dragon or Instigator Gang in place of Rakdos Pit Dragon? Instigator Gang seems like he'd shine in this sort of deck. Also, Zuppon, have you considered -2 Bonfire +2 Sword of Fire and Ice?
Instigator Gang has been tried before and I believe that we've come to the decision that he's just too inconsistent for this deck that already lacks consistency. As for Moltensteel, I've just never liked him. Other people like him, but RPD has won too many games for me to just toss him aside. I've never been unhappy about playing RPD, but I have been unhappy about playing Moltensteel.

Entromancer

10-14-2012, 12:04 PM

Jaya Ballard, Task Mage might merit your consideration. She's proven to be a bit of a swiss army knife and helps Rakdos Pit Dragon. If we face Sneak-n-Show, is dropping a Chalice @ 3 or 4 the priority?

JMLL

10-15-2012, 05:48 AM

:laugh:I'm a card now.
LOL I was too focused on searching a solution that didn't even think it was a witer, not a card! My apologies.:tongue:

Speaking about Werewolves, the deck changes a lot, I tried that, as then a Seething Song is a bad card that flips your wolves back to normal, and you don't want that. So, if you wish to play 5CMC threats (the M13 dragon deserves it) don't go the Wolves route.

On Jaya, it has been pointed in several forums, maybe a 2nd and a 3rd slot can be a solution. Multiples belong to Moxes, so it's alright.

Entromancer

10-28-2012, 06:29 PM

Has anyone considered Mizzium Mortars as a good sweeper? Bonfire only seems good if we can Miracle it...or perhaps we should stick with our po'folks' Force of Will....aka Pyrokinesis?

ForlornEgoist

10-28-2012, 08:46 PM

Has anyone considered Mizzium Mortars as a good sweeper? Bonfire only seems good if we can Miracle it...or perhaps we should stick with our po'folks' Force of Will....aka Pyrokinesis?

To do card tags you need [ c a r d s]Card Name[/c a r d s]. Basically, you formatted it right you just forgot the "s," at the end of "cards."

As for Mizzium Mortars the primary problem with it is that the Overload, ultimately, is uncastable for us unless we get unlucky enough to be mana flooded or equally unlucky to have the game drag out. If it were 5R I might be more considerate of the card but as it stands our deck has enough difficulties fixing RR, let alone ramping up into 6 mana precisely when needed. Take away its Overload and all you're left with is a mildly applicable removal spell.

Volcanic Fallout, Firespout, heck, even Breath of Darigaaz are all much more reasonable sweepers for us. As far as general removal is concerned, for most small creatures 3 is enough of which we have other choices.

Forlorn Egoist

Zupponn

11-12-2012, 01:26 AM

Breath of Darigaaz

That made me smile.:smile:

Also, I've been playing around with the maindeck of my previous list a little and have been liking the look of this:

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
4x Flametongue Kavu
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Thundermaw Hellkite
4x Blood Moon
3x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain

I want to try cutting Seething Song and replacing it with Jittes and seeing how that plays, but I don't think that I want to use 4 Jittes right now, so I added in the 4th Blood Moon.

guidogulp

11-12-2012, 02:15 PM

So, it's been a long time since I checked the thread, mainly due to a decrese in local Legacy tournaments :S

I'd like to post a list I'm trying to improve, going for more stability on mid-late games. Please feel free to comment!

Main:
19 Lands:
11 Mountain
4 City of traitors
4 Ancient tomb

16 Creatures:
4 Magus of the moon
4 Simian spirit guide
3 Flametongue kavu
3 Lodestone Golem
2 Moltensteel dragon

5 Sorceries:
3 Stone rain
2 Burning wish

3 Instant:
3 Chaos Warp

14 Artifacts:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte

3 Enchantments:
3 Blood Moon

Sideboard:
1x Last Chance
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Boiling Seas
3x Shattering Spree
1x Pyroclasm
1x Firespout
1x Mark of Mutiny
3x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Blood Moon
2x Anarchy

I realize there's some inconsistency between Lodestone and Trinis, but in the worst case scenario you'd still have a 5/3 beater for 4 mana with no effect below 3cmc non-artifact cards.
On the other hand, I'd consider adding a 3rd Wish, but I'd like to improve the SD first. The reasoning behind putting two sweepers is the cmc, as you'd need 4 mana against 5 if you'd like to cast the wish and the sweeper on the same turn.

I've also considered Avalanche riders in the place of the Stone rains, but the latter improves your chances starting second and having no chalice no trinis.

Chaos Warp has proved to be really nice as far as i'm concerned, removing any threat for possibly nothing in return is something worth it... have you guys tried it?

Regards!

Zupponn

11-13-2012, 03:14 AM

This is an interesting take on the deck. I like that the Wish package provides you with some flexibility, but I think that Stone Rain probably should be cut either for Thundermaw Hellkite or Bonfire of the Damned. Both cards are almost too good not to run.

guidogulp

11-13-2012, 08:15 AM

The thing with the Hellkite is it almost demands a pack of Seething songs on the deck, and then it takes around 3/4 additional cards to play Hellkite.
The Bonfire is just too expensive for me in Argentina to play... around $150 here. Perhaps for later :)

The stone rains are somewhat a concern on the deck, it's mostly a dead card on the mid game... but so is Trinisphere. I guess it's more of a commitment to continue rocking the first turns packing trinis, CotV, Stones and Sol lands.

Zupponn

11-15-2012, 02:07 AM

Thundermaw does require at least 3 Seething Songs, but I've been liking them. They allow for some very explosive starts, which is something this deck is known for. Plus, you pretty much win when the dragon hits the battlefield every time.

Entromancer

11-16-2012, 04:45 PM

Thundermaw is too good to overlook, from my experience. However, instead of Stone Rain, maybe Pillage? RR aside, it lets you hit Aether Vial.

dillonkbase

11-27-2012, 09:10 PM

I figured I would post my list on the dragon stompy thread for once and see what you guys thought.

4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Mishra's Factory
6 Mountain

4 Mox diamond
4 Grim monolith

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Tangle Wire
4 Magus of the moon
1 Goblin Welder
2 Godo Bandit Warlord

2 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Karn Liberated
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Phrexian Metamorph

SB
2 Spine of Ish Sah (Sneak show) uw control?
3 Phyrexian Revoker (Storm, Bant, Mavrick, more if I think about it)
2 Cursed Totem (Mavrick, Bant)
2 Relic of Progenitus (dredge, gy based stuff)
1 Tormod's Crypt (storm,gy based stuff)
3 Silent Arbiter (tribes, Ichorid)
2 Impending Disaster (UW control, turbo eldrazi, lands)

I am thinking about replacing the welder and either a tanglewire or the Karn with Koth, but feel a little doubtful about supporting him manawise... 6 mountain+ 4 diamond and 4 magus.

I'd take any other comments too.

civet five

12-05-2012, 12:27 AM

I just noticed on TheCouncil that someone did well at a 100 player tourney: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9546&iddeck=69659

Personally I love the flavor of Akroma and Demigod of Revenge. If this deck configuration works well, I'd be curious how Deus of Calamity fits (my guess: not as good as Akroma or Demigod).

ForlornEgoist

12-05-2012, 05:47 PM

Overall I think the person performed well because they understood the meta. Notice that 4 decks in the T8 were Team America and 1 was Rock, both decks of which can be punished for greedy mana bases? Also to note was OmniTell which, given we have play, can be a superior MU for us? I think its a safe bet to say that many other decks in this given meta were of this variety.

The person's deck is designed to maximize the weaknesses of the meta. Creature recursion via Demigod/Kuldotha, 8 MD Moon effects helps to assure not only a decent lock against decks like TA but also lets the person play with only 2 Songs while still being able to afford RPD and Akroma.

Shatterstorm is a curious choice. I wonder if they were expecting to run into decks such as MUD.

The Pithing Needle are a nice selection. Most people prefer Phyrexian Revoker but there are times when having a difficult-to-remove lock can be relevant, not to mention those times when you might SB out Moon effects and still want the ability to nix lands. I presume, however, the priority target was SDT or Vial in most MU.

Props to the pilot of this deck for clearly understanding their meta. That having been said, there's nothing amazingly innovative about the list. The person did with this deck what you're supposed to: play it in a greedy meta. DS is an amazingly powerful deck if you play it in the right meta.

Forlorn Egoist

Entromancer

12-09-2012, 04:53 PM

I have been having some luck with a werewolf variation on Zuppon's build. I'm having a hard time finding some City of Traitor(s) locally; is Crystal Vein an adequate substitution untill I can acquire the Cities?

civet five

12-09-2012, 11:38 PM

NecroYawgmoth

12-09-2012, 11:55 PM

Guys...

What am I missing here?

I know that Bonfire is the nuts, and that it should be played at least 3 times, no question about that... but...

Thundermaw Hellkite?

Really...?

This is not Standard... ...and this is not Modern, where everyone and his mother is playing Lingering Souls.

Your argumention is that Thundermaw requires Seething Song. But if you do Seething Song into a critter turn 1 or 2 it's a all or nothing play.
I can't see Thundermaw being THAT much better than Slogger or [insert other good cc5 R DS-relevant creature] in that situation. Haste is huge, but flinging 8 damage wherever you want is better.

Also: People should start to run 2-3 Sulfur Elementals. It is extremely useful against Maverick, and being an uncounterable dork that beats Lingering Souls better than Thundermaw isn't bad either.

AmokPL

12-10-2012, 10:19 AM

sorry but...

Guys...
this is not Modern, where everyone and his mother is playing Lingering Souls.

and...

an uncounterable dork that beats Lingering Souls

NecroYawgmoth

12-10-2012, 03:18 PM

I know what you trying to say here, and I know I used the wrong words, but still...

Lingering Souls gets much less played in Legacy than in Modern. Also Lingering Souls only gets played in counterheavy decks. Do you think you resolve Thundermaw easier than Sulfur against an counterheavy deck? Sulfur should be played alone for the fact that it tears up Maverick, which isn't an easy MU at all. The Souls-killing is just an positive side effect. You could argument that the "killing effect" of the Dragon is just an side-effect either, but would you run a vanilla 5/5 with flying and haste?

Zupponn

12-12-2012, 02:57 AM

I don't play Thundermaw because of its ability to kill Lingering Souls. I play it because it's a 5/5 hasty flyer that guarantees you 5 damage. I feel that its tapping ability is so much better than its 1 damage ability. It clears the way for other dragons to bash in too, which can easily win you games. If your opponent is at 5 with a pair of blockers, Thundermaw wins you the game on the spot, where both Sulfur Elemental and Arc-Slogger will take at least another turn.

Sulfur Elemental is a great SB card, but even then I prefer to have Anarchy over it just because it's more devastating.

Ace/Homebrew

01-20-2013, 08:49 PM

The meta is looking ripe for Dragon Stompy.
I took the following list to Redcap's Corner for the monthly Philadelphia Legacy Series.

Mana
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Others
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Flametongue Kavu
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Koth of the Hammer

Sideboard
3 Cave-In
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Trinisphere
4 Phyrexian Revoker

This is a rather unimpressive report... Went 3-0-2 in a 23 player event. Durdled around in the top 8 and lost to myself =(
Immediately I would remove the Leylines and Cave-Ins from my sideboard. They did nothing for me.

Round 1 - Kipp with U/W Stoneblade 2-1-0
He took game 1. Game 2 I landed a Blood Moon turn 2 locking him into Islands and Mountains. Game 3 I land CotV@1 and he plays Stoneforge -> Batterskull. He gets as high as 32 life before my Pit Dragon starts doing some damage. Jitte helps me stabilize at 1 life and the Dragon gets the win.

Round 2 - Zach with Aggro Loam 2-1-0
Deck check gave me game 1 cause he forgot to put a card on his sheet... Game 2 he wins because my only lane for several turns was an Ancient Tomb. I side out 3 Trini and a Bonfire for 4 Revokers. Game 3 Koth kept the damage coming through while Bonfire cleared his field.

Round 3 - Eric with OmniTell 2-0-0
I clog the board with a Gathan Raiders, Jitte, and Pit Dragon before he Wishes for Show and Tell. He shows Emrakul and I show my other Pit Dragon. My turn I swing with everything. He blocked the Pit Dragon without the Jitte. I pumped the Dragon +3/+0 and then an additional +4/+4 after first strike which was enough for the W. Game 2 a Moon effect seemed to give him difficulties. A Pit Dragon pumped twice and a Gathan Raiders did 15 damage bringing him to 1. He drew his card and extended his hand.

Round 4 - Michael with Esperblade ID

Round 5 - Avery with Shardless BUG ID

Top 8
Round 6 - Allen with 4 color Stoneblade 0-2-0
Game 1 I landed a 3sphere which kept him from doing anything until turn 3... Game was lost after I played a Chalice@2 AFTER he resolved a Stoneforge -> Jitte. I top decked my Jitte but the Chalice kept me from playing it. Took out the 3spheres and a Bonfire for Revokers. Game 2 everything was going my way and after he mulled to 6 I bragged about how I had already won this game. I played an uncounterable Magus on turn 2 which left him with an island and mountains. Gathan Raiders came down. He tapped out for an Engineered Explosives for 3 and I answered with a Revoker. I lost when I attacked in with everything and he flashed a Snapcaster to block my Magus. I lost AGAIN when I failed to attack with my team when he was at 4 life and had 1 blocker...
Oh well, assuming the meta stays like this for a while I'll have a chance to redeem myself.

Esper3k

01-21-2013, 01:24 AM

Yeah all those DR Shaman decks with 0 basics just make me drool over T1 / 2 Blood Moons.

AmokPL

01-22-2013, 08:52 AM

how does single Koth/Caverns work for you?

Ace/Homebrew

01-22-2013, 02:54 PM

Both were last second changes. I took out a FtK for Koth and swapped a Caverns in my board for a Trinisphere.

For future lists I would probably put the Caverns back in the board for a maindeck Mountain. Caverns was very relevant against FoW decks. I may drop the total number to 3.
Koth was a test. I found myself with too many FtK and Trinispheres when playing out hands with my goldfish. Koth appeared 3 times in the event. He was countered twice and helped me win against Omnitell the other time. I'd say I'm happy with the single copy.

I'm going to be testing Price of Progress in the sideboard. Moon effects turn non-basic lands into Mountains, but they are still non-basic. Against control decks where games go long and they drop a land each turn, PoP might be the edge I need.

TheStallion0192

01-25-2013, 03:06 PM

What does everyone think of Etched Champion? Metalcraft is not hard to achieve and he has been working really well for me.

Tammit67

01-25-2013, 03:39 PM

Esper3k

01-25-2013, 05:08 PM

What does everyone think of Etched Champion? Metalcraft is not hard to achieve and he has been working really well for me.

I loved Etched Champion the last time I did testing with this deck. I did also play a heavier Equipment build though (2 Batterskulls main on top of Swords + Jittes) to make Champion really scary. The list I was playing was less explosive than your normal DS lists due to lack of as many Chrome Moxes (I played 3 Chrome Mox, 2 Mox Opal) and no Seething Song, but I felt it was more consistent at throwing bombs until they stopped moving.

Ace/Homebrew

01-25-2013, 09:22 PM

Congrats Mike

Thanks Matt =)

@Stallion - A list would be helpful. I wouldn't recommend Etched Champion if your list is like mine because it needs a critical mass of red cards so Chrome Mox can be used. If you run a robot list like Esper3k does with Mox Opals instead of Chrome Mox I could see it being worthwhile.

apple713

01-25-2013, 09:32 PM

I think this deck is a great meta choice, but i've been wanting to play with inferno titan and batter skulls. batter skulls are extremely good in this deck since it has the mana to power it effectively. the lifgain helps sooo much as well

Inferno titan is like a Ftk or Arc Slogger on steroids. Its not out of the decks casting cost and since the deck runs cotv to protect from lots of removal, a inferno titan usually means game. He kills multiple creatures upon casting and attack like death rite & bob, or thalia, mom, and noble. he really destroys menfolk and goblins too.

Khamul

01-26-2013, 06:30 AM

In the last few days, I've been wondering how to help Dragon Stompy not to loose to itself that often. I've seen a Dragon Stompy List doing well in Germany (sorry, don't have any link) and the Mono-R Painter List from SCG with some interesting techs, so I wanted to talk about those:

Magma Jet
Dangerous Wager

While Dragon Stompy can be extremely explosive, it mostly dies to bad Topdecks / well-placed Counterspells. Sometimes you can install all your lock pieces, but you don't draw an answer to the single creature your opponent has laid, and horribly die to it.
Sometimes, you lay down your big Baddies, but they get removed immediately, because you couldn't get any of your lock pieces through.
Sometimes, you're forced to imprint your only piece of Gas into a Chrome Mox, never drawing into any pressure again.
Or, you've got your opponent under a Moon Effect, but he doesn't even care because he's got a Mana Dork out!

Helping the card draw could handle those problems, so I want to discuss those cards:

Magma Jet:

Spot Removal can solve the problems of the small creatures that can ruin your gameplan. MichaelP from MTGSalvation tried Incinerate, now I suggest Magma Jet. The difference between 2 or 3 Damage is, IMO, not that important. Just think about it - which Creatures are the most annoying ones for Dragon Stompy?
I think they are Insectile Aberration, Deathrite Shaman, Noble Hierarch, Birds of Paradise, Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, and some others that didn't come to my Mind yet. Fact is, all these Creatures die to Magma Jet as easily as to Incinerate.
BUT Magma Jet allows you to rearrange the Top 2 Cards of your Library! You can just put 2 useless Cards on the bottom of your Library, thus skipping those turns of bad draws!

IMO, this great advantage of Magma Jet outweights the 1 less Damage output by far.

Dangerous Wager:

Dragon Stompy (as every Mono-Red Deck) has a lack of Card Draw. It either goes all-in, or has many Dead cards in Hand. Either way, some card draw would not hurt. So why not abuse the nature of this Deck? Dangerous Wager lets you draw two new cards, at the price of loosing the cards you held in your hand before. If you ask me, that's a minor drawback, because you'll either throw away unnecessary hand cards, or you don't have any cards in Hand except Dangerous Wager!

IMO, this Card is pure Card Advantage! And something that Dragon Stompy has been waiting for so long!

Well, and I'd also have the Idea putting a few Cavern of Souls in - especially in Werewolf lists, where nearly all Creatures are Humans... However, Dangerous Wager and Magma Jet might not Synergize with either the Hellbent or with the Werewolf Creatures... I'm just testing a list with all my three Ideas, and Werewolves, but I think it's still far away from being elaborated.

Thoughts on these Ideas?

apple713

01-26-2013, 11:55 PM

Magma Jet
Dangerous Wager[/Cards]

Thoughts on these Ideas?

these are pretty much dead ideas considering the deck needs to play cards with CMC 3+. Chalice is a great play on 1 and 2 and will always take priority to these cards... They don't do enough for you. Really if you wanted to take advantage of red card draw you could try to add 2-3 reforge the soul

Blastoderm

01-27-2013, 07:21 PM

Dangerous Wager is bad. I'd rather play a bomb creature instead. Magma jet can be pyrokinesis or pyroclasm in the sideboard.

I've been testing Hound of Griselbrand recently and he's been insane. Especially with the 2 jitte maindeck.

TheStallion0192

01-27-2013, 08:36 PM

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
7 Mountain

3 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Chalice of the Void

4 Etched Champion
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
3 Flametongue Kavu

4 Blood Moon

3 Koth of the Hammer

2 Mizzium Mortars

Zupponn

01-28-2013, 12:01 AM

I've been testing Hound of Griselbrand recently and he's been insane. Especially with the 2 jitte maindeck.

This sounds interesting. I will have to try it out and see how he feels. There's an old list before M13 came out that used Lord of Shatterskull Pass as one of the main attackers, so maybe I'll dig that one up and swap them out for the dogs. I think I ran 4 Jittes in that deck though.

Blastoderm

01-28-2013, 04:52 PM

This sounds interesting. I will have to try it out and see how he feels. There's an old list before M13 came out that used Lord of Shatterskull Pass as one of the main attackers, so maybe I'll dig that one up and swap them out for the dogs. I think I ran 4 Jittes in that deck though.

3R for a 3/3 and then an extra 1R for a 6/6 seems unimpressive. Although he's big, and stops goyf problems I find a double striker resistant (somewhat) to removal that isn't swords to be better, especially if you're running equipment.

Zupponn

01-29-2013, 01:36 AM

3R for a 3/3 and then an extra 1R for a 6/6 seems unimpressive. Although he's big, and stops goyf problems I find a double striker resistant (somewhat) to removal that isn't swords to be better, especially if you're running equipment.
Well, LoSP wasn't the best card in the world, but he was a lot better than you'd probably think. I've had him hold Batterskulls and Goyfs at bay numerous times. My first impression of playing with the Hound has been positive though. He provides a real problem for rock style decks that rely on cards such as Abrupt Decay, Liliana, and Maelstrom Pulse.

Ace/Homebrew

01-30-2013, 12:31 AM

cards
You've only got 20 cards that can imprint on Chrome Mox! That hasn't been a problem for you?
Otherwise your list looks like the Champion fits in.

I want to try out Thundermaw Hellkite as a 1 or 2 of. The hound having Undying is nice, but I'd prefer it if it was flying.

Blastoderm

01-30-2013, 09:59 PM

You've only got 20 cards that can imprint on Chrome Mox! That hasn't been a problem for you?
Otherwise your list looks like the Champion fits in.

I want to try out Thundermaw Hellkite as a 1 or 2 of. The hound having Undying is nice, but I'd prefer it if it was flying.

Yea flying has been so good in this deck. Moltensteel dragon has been proving himself worthy. I only run 3 copies though, as I never want to see two of them and I can't pitch it to mox. Hound has been great against all the BUG running around.

Woe_Bringer

01-31-2013, 03:14 PM

What about Kargan dragonlord. I have been running him to pretty good success. If not answerd he gets out of controll very quickly.

Jelmerz77

02-03-2013, 09:36 AM

Haven't played this deck for a while now but I feel with the BUG deck and the other greedy mana bases Legacy is all about that this might be the deck that catches people by surprise. :smile:

This is the list I will be testing in the next couple of weeks.

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Rakdos Pit Dragon
2 Flametongue Kavu
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Conch Horn
2 Umezawa’s Jitte

Sideboard

3 Cave-In
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Trinisphere
4 Phyrexian Revoker

Sideboard may vary.

Feel free to comment :smile:

Esper3k

02-03-2013, 11:37 AM

Conch Horn? Interesting! I'm surprised you don't want something like that Scry 2 artifact from M12?

You can link cards with the "[cards]" tag.

Jelmerz77

02-03-2013, 01:13 PM

Conch Horn? Interesting! I'm surprised you don't want something like that Scry 2 artifact from M12?

Well The thing with Conch Horn that it isn't scry. It lets me put a card from my hand onto my Library...
Which lets me miracle Bonfire of the Damned "on Demand" Well that is the theory at least :wink:

sderenatore

02-03-2013, 02:32 PM

Well The thing with Conch Horn that it isn't scry. It lets me put a card from my hand onto my Library...
Which lets me miracle Bonfire of the Damned "on Demand" Well that is the theory at least :wink:
Well, why don't you try Scroll Rack instead of Conch? Seems way better as long as its not mono-use, even though it doesnt grant card advantage but card quality.

Jelmerz77

02-03-2013, 02:51 PM

Well, why don't you try Scroll Rack instead of Conch? Seems way better as long as its not mono-use, even though it doesnt grant card advantage but card quality.

Well I think the additional card give it a slight edge over Scroll Rack

Ace/Homebrew

02-03-2013, 08:38 PM

I agree that Conch Horn is better in this deck than Scroll Rack (at least in hellbent lists).
Report back on your findings!

I was able to test out Price of Progress a little as a sideboard card. Needs more testing but so far it has been useful for cutting a turn off the time it takes to kill the opponent.

Blastoderm

02-06-2013, 11:41 AM

Went 3-1 at a local tournament. Here's my list:

4 gathan raiders
3 instigator gang
4 rakdos pit dragon
4 magus of the moon
4 hound of griselbrand
4 simian spirit guide

4 chrome mox
4 trinisphere
4 blood moon
4 chalice of the void
2 umezawa's jitte

sb:

3 tormod's crypt
4 ensnaring bridge
2 anarchy
1 viashino heretic
1 shattering spree
4 phyrexian revoker

Some things I realized:
- Right now with Jund and BUG running rampant, you want all 8 moons. Not 7. One will be countered, discarded or destroyed so you want your best chances at having one on the table at all times.
- I've tested many versions of the deck and the best versions are always the ones with less gimmicks and try to do less cute or creative stuff. You want locks and big beats, that is all. More threats the better. No room for seething song, the deck is already inconsistent enough; I don't want to be drawing seething song when my opponent has goyfs in play (this problem comes up already with drawing chrome mox and spirit guides).
- Hound of griselbrand has been awesome against Liliana and as well with Jitte. (I've one shotted countless shocked opponents with it equipped).

jin

02-09-2013, 03:33 PM

Hey guys, I've been working on the Dragon Stompy list again. I'm almost lurking on the Imperial Painter's forum and noticed they discussed Tibalt a bit. Has anyone considered playing him? I tried him out a bit from some goldfish hands and it seems like he can really help with the card quality. He also helps lots with the hellbent list. Of course, he'll make the Bonfire of the Damned worse, but I think the card quality he proves is stellar! I know some of you don't like playing with cards that are 2 drops, but I'd argue that he's almost as important as Umezawa's Jitte. I find that in the opening turns, he's as good as dropping any equipment. He can also do quite a bit of damage if we get our lock pieces down. What do you guys think? Check him out and give me some feed back! Thanks.

PS: I hope this hasn't been discussed already. I searched and only got 2 Tibalt results....

Zupponn

02-10-2013, 01:16 AM

jin

02-10-2013, 01:53 AM

The reason that Painter decks can use Tibalt is that they aren't Chalice based. Because of this, they don't require the screwy manabase that we do. As stated many times before by other people, RR is very difficult for us to come by during games and Tibalt doesn't play nicely with either a Trinisphere or a Chalice at 2. You also can't do any kind of damage with him, which is a huge drawback in such an aggressive deck as ours. So, based on all these reasons, Tibalt is just not for us.

On another note, I think that our Jund matchup is insane. FTK and Moon effects are really good against them.

This is what I'd run at a tournament if I had the chance:

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
4x Flametongue Kavu
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Thundermaw Hellkite
4x Blood Moon
4x Seething Song
3x Bonfire of the Damned
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
11x Mountain

Sideboard:
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Anarchy

Sideboard is a little iffy right now. I might want a couple of Pyrokinesis in there. Not sure.

I'm confused. Are we talking about the same card? As I recall:

-4 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded deals damage equal to the number of cards in target player's hand to that player.

I've been play testing him, and the more I play him, the more I feel like he's part of the core of the deck. He'll get you to business and he'll filter out your useless cards. He's also a damaging threat under Ensnaring Bridge. Chalice or not, it won't affect him as it doesn't affect Umezawa's Jitte. More over, he pitches to Mox, so it actually affects the deck less. He also comes down for 2 mana, which happens to smooth out the curve after a first turn Moon effect. I'm really liking him and am definitely willing to cut Bonfire of the Damned for it. My current list runs Pyrokinesis main instead of side to make up for the lack of Bonfire. Check him out before criticising.

He improves card quality and allows for a more deadly Rakdos. Please try. I've decided to play him as a 4-of now so that I can shoot people with Tibalt more often. It's awesome.

PS: thanks for sharing your list. I'm actually actively looking for SB options, as I feel like the current options aren't that great. So far, I've found Ensnaring Bridge as a definite inclusion as it answers many of the problem match ups. I also feel that Anarchy is necessary due to the inherent poor match up with white control decks. I'm not sure what else to include. I feel that the graveyard hate is not necessary because of Bridge. Dredge and Reanimator seem powerless against Ensnaring Bridge, especially multiples...

The REDblasts don't seem too stellar as it hurts hellbent lists and aren't great with Chalice of the Void (being a 1 drop is a lot more crucial). Other cards that I like include Jaya, Phyrexian Metamorph, Flametongue Kavu, and extra sphere/moon/pyrokinesis dependent on build. I read a few pages ago that someone wanted to try Price of Progress. Although, I feel that's a very scary play for the opponent, I can't but help to think that they'll play around your moon effect on the play anyway, so they'll get a basic or 2 in play before your POP goes off. That said, I don't think that attack their lands is a bad idea. I've been trying Boil and Flashfire to assault their basics. It's also probably guaranty to resolve after they counter the moon effects. I think that's great.

Zupponn

02-10-2013, 02:09 AM

jin

02-10-2013, 02:14 AM

Tibalt can't do very much damage under an Ensnaring Bridge that has any level of effectiveness. If they don't have enough cards in their hand to allow you to attack, then Tibalt isn't going to do much damage to them. If you want to draw cards, then go with either Dangerous Wager or Reforge the Soul. I think those are the best card drawing tools we have right now.

Ensnaring Bridge depends on the cards in YOUR hand not the controller of the creature's hand. The goal of a Dragon Stompy deck is to keep cards in their hands. Tibalt should do damage, or else the Dragon deck isn't doing the job.

Zupponn

02-10-2013, 02:31 AM

jin

02-10-2013, 02:38 AM

Ensnaring Bridge

Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded

Read Tibalt again. If your opponent has an Ensnaring Bridge out, then it will only be effective if he has few to no cards in hand. Tibalt doesn't do much damage to a player with few to no cards in hand. If your opponent has many cards in hand, then Tibalt is just worse than any creature who can attack through the Ensnaring Bridge.

I was thinking I'm using Ensnaring Bridge. I wasn't suggesting that the opponent has Ensnaring Bridge. Although that said, I suppose Ensnaring Bridge could be annoying for Dragon... LOL. I'll think of a solution for that later. Yes, Tidbalt does no damage if their hand is empty. If their hand is empty, then your Dragon list isn't doing anything to slow it down. You've already lost.

Although, upon further thought, I don't think anyone would board in Ensnaring Bridge VS dragon Stompy

Jelmerz77

02-10-2013, 04:09 PM

Ace/Homebrew

02-10-2013, 04:34 PM

someone wanted to try Price of Progress.

That was me. I found Stoneblade matchups to be difficult and so far my limited testing has shown Price of Progress to be effective against them. They are going to drop a land every turn and once we stick a moon effect, most will be non-basic Mountains.

Zupponn, have you tried Cavern of Souls to power through a Magus or Pit Dragon? I've been running 3 in the board and it feels right.

Blastoderm

02-10-2013, 07:00 PM

Sideboard is a little iffy right now. I might want a couple of Pyrokinesis in there. Not sure.

I'm sure pyroclasm is better. This deck has enough card disadvantage already. Pyrokinesis is terrible with trinisphere in play as well.

Zupponn

02-10-2013, 07:59 PM

Zupponn, have you tried Cavern of Souls to power through a Magus or Pit Dragon? I've been running 3 in the board and it feels right.
I haven't tried Cavern yet. I never thought that having a card that doesn't produce 2 mana or red mana for everything would be worth it.

I'm sure pyroclasm is better. This deck has enough card disadvantage already. Pyrokinesis is terrible with trinisphere in play as well.
Now that I think about it, I have to agree with you.

Blastoderm

02-12-2013, 05:47 AM

I haven't tried Cavern yet. I never thought that having a card that doesn't produce 2 mana or red mana for everything would be worth it.

Now that I think about it, I have to agree with you.

It's better vs 10 goblins as well :P I can't really imagine a situation where you would have sided in pyrokenesis to do a 3/1 split anyways.

jin

02-12-2013, 11:05 AM

Regarding Pyroclasm VS Pyrokinesis, I"ve always found that Pyroclasm isn't that great especially since most of our creatures have 2 toughness (Magus, morph dudes, Sulfur Elemental, Flametongue Kavu, Simian Spirit Guide, etc.) I think Trinisphere is not a big problem as if you have a 3sphere lock, you generally don't need to remove more than 1 creature so Pyroclasm would be irrelevant. However, if you had a Magus of the Moon, you might need to remove multiple creatures:

For example, vs Goblin decks, would you rather have Pyrokinesis on their goblins AND your Magus or would you rather Pyrokinesis? As I pointed out, Pyrokinesis is effective VS the swarm you want it because if you had 3sphere out, you wouldn't need to cast the pyrokinesis. Sorry if this post was confusing.

Card advantage is the only argument against Pyrokinesis, but then again, you need it for hellbent, or else your creatures are just terrible.

I am playing both Imperial Painter and Dragon Stompy (Depending on personal preference and meta choices) But I never wanted to play Tibalt in either decks... The discard at random is just soooo not good. And with Dragon Stompy I would minimize the 2 drops to a minimum anyway. And Tibalt will probably never be one of them...

Yeah, further testing against a competent opponent showed that the randomness screwed me over. That plan is out. I know Tibalt is not popular in iPainters. If it wasn't random, it would have been a lot better, but still, I couldn't protect Tibalt. Tarmogoyf is too much of a problem for this deck. Goyf was almost always a 6/7 against me. I twasn't fun.

That was me. I found Stoneblade matchups to be difficult and so far my limited testing has shown Price of Progress to be effective against them. They are going to drop a land every turn and once we stick a moon effect, most will be non-basic Mountains.

Zupponn, have you tried Cavern of Souls to power through a Magus or Pit Dragon? I've been running 3 in the board and it feels right.

Yeah, sorry, I was too lazy to check your user name. So, the way you use Price of Progress is only to lock in their non-basic lands so that they can take more damage from Price of Progress? Maybe I shall try that out too.

I really like your list, except I didn't understand Cavern of Souls too much, especially in the main. My problem with Cavern of Souls is that you can't play a lot of creatures with him. If you use him to protect your humans, then your dragons and simians are vulnerable. I did feel that they were better than Redblast though, as Redblasts usually aren't very synergetic with Chalice.

Psyqo

02-12-2013, 01:55 PM

Esper3k

02-12-2013, 04:10 PM

I don't mean to derail this, but with Blood Moon out non-basics become Non-Basic Mountains (for Price of Progress purposes)? If so I never knew that.. I always assumed Blood Moon/Magus turned off PoP.

That's correct. If you look closely at Blood Moon / Magus, they turn lands only into Mountains. If those lands did not have the Basic Land type before, they don't gain it, ie. become non-basic Mountains.

Artifact lands will also remain artifacts, just artifact Mountains :)

Zupponn

02-13-2013, 06:05 PM

For example, vs Goblin decks, would you rather have Pyrokinesis on their goblins AND your Magus or would you rather Pyrokinesis?

If you're that far behind a goblin player, casting Pyroclasm in that situation would be preferable IMO. Magus is really little more than a blocker against them. Same with elves. Neither deck uses many nonbasics, so Moon effects are not very effective against them.

jin

02-13-2013, 11:28 PM

If you're that far behind a goblin player, casting Pyroclasm in that situation would be preferable IMO. Magus is really little more than a blocker against them. Same with elves. Neither deck uses many nonbasics, so Moon effects are not very effective against them.

Far? Who said anything about far? You could be ahead. Maybe they only have a lackey and a piledriver or a lacky and a warchief. Pyroclasm would be terrible there. Pyrokinesis would be awesome. If you are "that far behind", then Pyrokinesis still gives you a chance to recover. For example, if they had ringleader, lackey, piledriver, war chief, you would be fine if you pyokinsis warchief and lackey and block piledriver. You'd take 2, but you'd still be fine.

If you pyroclasm vs Goblins, they can recover a lot faster than you off of a ringleader. Against elves, I think Pyrokinesis could help to contain the early drops. The point of this spell can be used to slow them down rather than blow them out.

Jelmerz77

02-14-2013, 09:35 AM

Far? Who said anything about far? You could be ahead. Maybe they only have a lackey and a piledriver or a lacky and a warchief. Pyroclasm would be terrible there. Pyrokinesis would be awesome. If you are "that far behind", then Pyrokinesis still gives you a chance to recover. For example, if they had ringleader, lackey, piledriver, war chief, you would be fine if you pyokinsis warchief and lackey and block piledriver. You'd take 2, but you'd still be fine.

If you pyroclasm vs Goblins, they can recover a lot faster than you off of a ringleader. Against elves, I think Pyrokinesis could help to contain the early drops. The point of this spell can be used to slow them down rather than blow them out.

No love for Cave-In? I think that would be my choice at the moment.

jin

02-14-2013, 11:16 AM

No love for Cave-In? I think that would be my choice at the moment.

I've never tried Cave-In, so I have no comment, but Ace/Homebrew showed his disatisfaction with it on page 46. I think it'll have the same problem as Pyroclasm - kills your own dudes.

Ace/Homebrew

02-15-2013, 01:55 AM

Yeah I was down on it because it never left my sideboard. But I believe it is commonly used as a board card for this deck; that's why I used it anyway. I'd probably drop it to just 1 or 2 though since I'm liking 4 Bonfire main-deck at the moment.

The way I've used Caverns is primarily to power through a turn 2 Magus. Once he sticks all your lands are mountains anyways. The 1-of main-deck was a last minute audible when I felt the deck was 1 land short. It's a Mountain now. So far 3 has been enough to see it when I want it after boarding.

Ace/Homebrew

03-11-2013, 08:35 PM

I'm gearing up for a large event in the area which means testing and tweaking!

Here's the list:

11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Trinisphere

4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
2 Flametongue Kavu
1 Thundermaw Hellkite

2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Serum Powder
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 ??????

SIDEBOARD
2 Spellskite
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Pyroclasm
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Trinisphere
1 Flametongue Kavu
2 ??????

So I'm missing a total of 3 cards, which I'm hoping you can help me with. I want the 1 missing card from the main deck to be red to keep my Chrome Moxes playable.
While practicing with the deck I lost too many games due to mulligans. 2 Serum Powder has really improved this without diluting the deck of business.

Esper3k

03-11-2013, 11:05 PM

I've always been a big fan of Moltensteel Dragons over RPD.

You could probably cut Koth and fill in the rest of the slots with more equipment (more Jittes or some Swords).

I don't like the Serum Powders but that's your choice if you're 100% sold on them.

Zupponn

03-11-2013, 11:19 PM

3x Jitte main is pretty good. Some Ratchet Bombs in the Sideboard might be good too.

Ace/Homebrew

03-12-2013, 03:57 AM

I don't like the Serum Powders but that's your choice if you're 100% sold on them.
I'm not 100% and I still have a few days so my opinion on them may change. For right now I am liking them although I hate that it removes the cards face up...

Some Ratchet Bombs in the Sideboard might be good too.
What match ups do you find yourself using Ratchet Bomb the most? Is it mostly to destroy tokens?

Thanks for the advice guys!

Esper3k

03-12-2013, 10:09 AM

Yeah right now, you look really light on equipment. I tend to like 5-6 pieces of equipment, usually including 2 Batterskulls in there since they double as amazing attackers as well.

Zupponn

03-14-2013, 01:32 AM

What match ups do you find yourself using Ratchet Bomb the most? Is it mostly to destroy tokens?

I would definitely bring them in vs Enchantress, which is our worst matchup out there, and probably both Goblins and Merfolk, which are both pretty bad also. At the very least the Bombs give you that little bit of removal that we generally lack in the mainboard. And since they are so flexible, they can really be used against anything.

Troll_ov_Grimness

03-14-2013, 04:43 PM

I think Phyrexian War Beast should be added to the primer,
because I think it is the best card that the deck can play.
It will attack with Magus Of the Moon or a Simian Spirit Guide for 5.
and it doesn't die to Lightning Bolt. Against Wasteland can hit the table quickly. and its drawback is negligible.
Also doesn't require Hellbent

Esper3k

03-14-2013, 04:48 PM

I would definitely bring them in vs Enchantress, which is our worst matchup out there, and probably both Goblins and Merfolk, which are both pretty bad also. At the very least the Bombs give you that little bit of removal that we generally lack in the mainboard. And since they are so flexible, they can really be used against anything.

If you're having issues with Enchantress, board in some Anarchy - that card really makes them scream!

Overall still a rough matchup though yeah.

Troll_ov_Grimness

03-14-2013, 05:01 PM

in any case, this deck is no longer viable due to Deathrite Shaman

Ace/Homebrew

03-14-2013, 05:04 PM

Your mom's no longer viable!

Troll_ov_Grimness

03-14-2013, 05:05 PM

I've been playing it online and haven't won a single game with it

and I've been trying different win conditions etc.

Its good against combo. Thats about it

Ace/Homebrew

03-14-2013, 05:08 PM

I'm going to chalk your losses up to user error.

Explain your prior statement involving DRS. I don't see how the printing of that card has any effect on this deck.

Blastoderm

03-14-2013, 05:14 PM

in any case, this deck is no longer viable due to Deathrite Shaman

What? I smile when I get matched up vs Jund or BUG. So easy.

Zupponn

03-14-2013, 11:58 PM

Dragon Stompy is a very hard deck to learn to play, and an even harder deck to learn to play well. It takes a lot of time to get to either of those levels, so don't think the deck is terrible just because you can't win a few games with it.

If you're having issues with Enchantress, board in some Anarchy - that card really makes them scream!
I'd board in both.:smile:

Megadeus

03-15-2013, 12:06 AM

Against Jund I feel like on the play you cant lose right? T1 Magus or Blood Moon. Game 2?

jin

03-15-2013, 01:28 AM

What is the correct number of Bonfire of the Damned? I never seem to get them when I need them, and I always seem to have them in my opening hand, which is pointless. I thought 4x is a must, but now I'm not so sure...

Ace/Homebrew

03-15-2013, 02:27 AM

What is the correct number of Bonfire of the Damned? ... I thought 4x is a must, but now I'm not so sure...
I thought so too but I'm only using 2 right now. 2 or 3 is probably correct when paired with other removal like FtK.

jin

03-15-2013, 03:21 AM

I thought so too but I'm only using 2 right now. 2 or 3 is probably correct when paired with other removal like FtK.

Yeah, I noticed you moved to 2x Bonfire (according to your list several pages back), but I'm not so sure about Flametongue Kavu. He doesn't always seem awesome and sometimes you have to drop him to get hellbent, but then you have to shoot a creature that you don't want to shoot. It just seems not so great with the plan.

I actually like the equipment plan, because I feel that all of the weenies don't do anything unless they have equipment. I like someone's suggestion of running 4-5 equipment because without library maniuplation, it's really hard to get to them. I used to run 3, but I might try to 4-5 equipment build (2 of them being Batterskull). The thing about equipment, is that it's very slow. So slow, in fact, that the time you bought with your initial lock might be not enough for Dragon Stompy to win. I've been having lots of equipment stuck in my hand with the 5x equipment build. I might try cutting one and moving down to 4. I do like how Batterskull is both a creature and armour for your weenies...

Oldskoolmosher

03-16-2013, 06:31 AM

Blastoderm

03-16-2013, 04:13 PM

Hi All,

I've just built this deck, and am wondering about some peoples sideboard choices - specifically Ensnaring Bridge.
I'm a bit of a noob, but assume it's for sneak and show? My question is this, who do you board it in against, and how do you sculpt your game around it?

You play it vs show and tell decks. Keep enough cards in your hand so you can attack with your swarm of dudes. You can also bring it in vs merfolk. They autolose to it.

Zupponn

03-17-2013, 12:26 AM

About Bonfire, I would probably rub 3 or 4. There's almost never a time that it's bad, right?

Ace/Homebrew

03-21-2013, 01:48 AM

I attended SCG DC this past weekend.

11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Trinisphere

4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
2 Flametongue Kavu
1 Thundermaw Hellkite

2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Serum Powder
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Fortune Thief

SIDEBOARD
2 Spellskite
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Pyroclasm
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Trinisphere
3 Ingot Chewer

Went 3-3 drop.

Round 1 - Ian on Pox 1-2
G1 he mulls and I start with CotV @1. Turn 2 I play a moon effect. Gathan Raiders gets there. All I see of him is Bloodghast, Sinkhole, Urborg, and Swamp. I put him on Zombardment. Took out Serum Powders and 3spheres for Revokers and Spellskites.
G2 I mull to 5 and he starts with Thoughtseize followed turn 2 with Hymn (taking Raiders and a City). I played a Magus which he made me sac after he played Liliana. I play a Revoker on Lili but he follows his turn with Smallpox. Liliana locked me out as he swings with a vampire and factory.
G3 I mull to 6 and start with nothing impressive. He Hymns me taking Thundermaw Hellkite and a Bonfire leaving me with 2 sol lands.... Liliana locks my hand and Crucible/Waste locks out my mana.

Round 2 - Curtis on 4-Color DRS 2-0
G1 Serum Powder, Serum Powder, playable 7. He mulls to 6 and starts with Deathrite Shaman. He dazes my CotV @1. I land a Blood Moon and he can't play anymore. I board in Cavern and take out City.
G2 I Serum Powder then mull to 6. He starts with Tundra, Delver. I go all in on a Trinisphere after playing a Mountain and two Chrome Moxes removing my remaining cards. He Forces it... He shows Decay off Delver and attacks after playing a second Tundra. I draw and play a Cavern on Human then a Cavern on Dragon. He keeps attacking and missing lands. FtK kills Delver and I win.

Round 3 - Dan on RUG Delver 2-0
I get a free 7 from Serum Powder and he mulls to 6. I play Magus turn 1 and he follows with Bolt. It gets to be me at 11 with a 5/5 Raiders and him at 7 with a 5/6 Goyf. Neither of us have a hand. I draw and play CotV @1. Next turn I play Magus. From there I build my board until I overwhelm and win. I take out Cities and Fortune Thief putting in Caverns and a Spellskite.
G2 he starts with a cantrip and Forces my Magus. I try a Blood Moon and it meets another Force. Pit Dragon meets Bolt. I land a Blood Moon, eventually a threat and win.

Round 4 - Joey on Miracles 1-2
I know Joey from Redcap's Corner. I know he's on Miracles which I feel is a bad matchup and have been testing against.
G1 I start after mulling to 6. I get turn 1 Blood Moon. He plays Top. Turn 2 I draw and play CotV @1. He plays Counterbalance, then Helm of Obedience, then Energy Field which stops my clocks after getting him to 4. As I wonder if I can deal with Energy Field, he plays Rest in Peace and it's over. I take out a 3sphere, 3 Cities, and 2 Kavus for 3 Revokers and 3 Caverns.
G2 I start with CotV @1. Turn 2 Koth followed by turn 3 Pit Dragon. Game over. I board out the Bonfires and a Fortune Thief for 3 Ingot Chewers.
G3 I resolve Magus. He gets a Counterbalance. Then a Helm. I play a Pit Dragon and Koth. He plays Energy Field after I get him to 6. Koth makes an emblem and I have 6 lands that are Mountains under Magus. I have 2 threats and 2 Spirit Guides in my hand. I draw Ingot Chewer! I tap a Mountain to evoke him. Chewer breaks the Energy Field and I attack. He miracles Entreat the Angels for some ridiculous number. Had I just used a Spirit Guide to evoke the Chewer I could have pinged him with my Mountains for the win... Oh well.

Round 5 - Broc on High Tide 2-0
He mulls to 6 and plays Misty Rainforest. He's salty about a prior loss and doesn't pay attention to my Magus. I ask if it resolves and he says it does. I pass the turn and he has a Mountain. He plays another Mountain and scoops as I beat with Magus.
G2 he cantrips before I play CotV@1. I establish a clock as he Cunning Wishes for Wipe Away then again for Intuition. He is forced to attempt to combo off turn 6 but only has 2 untapped Islands after playing High Tide. He Ponders then concedes.

Round 6 - Seth on Painter's Servant 0-2
He starts with a Mountain and I put him on Goblins. I play CotV @1. He plays Painter's Servant naming Blue. I play Blood Moon turn 2. He plays Imperial Recruiter for Jaya Ballard, Task Mage and it all goes downhill. I board in everything but Caverns and remove my Moon effects.
G2 we trade blows and Ingot Chewer made a big impression on me. When we are at 12 and 11 life, he combo's off. Oh well...

At this point the 3 hour head start on getting home sounded better than 3 more rounds of Magic.

The decks I expected to beat, I did. The rogue decks I have no experience against, I lost. And a bad matchup I threw away to a play mistake. :rolleyes: Oh well. It was the largest event I've been to at 268 players. I almost geeked out when I sat next to Jim Davis at the players meeting. As a Goblins enthusiast I had to shake his hand.

Ingot Chewer was a champ. I would play 4 next time. Fortune Thief didn't come up... I played it as a morph once. Serum Visions... helped? This deck can really shit on itself hard from mulligans. I was happy to look at the free hands the times I mentioned above. Bonfire for 2 damage was always awesome against creature decks. Even for 5 mana.

Esper3k

03-21-2013, 10:16 AM

He mulls to 6 and plays Misty Rainforest. He's salty about a prior loss and doesn't pay attention to my Magus. I ask if it resolves and he says it does. I pass the turn and he has a Mountain. He plays another Mountain and scoops as I beat with Magus.

It's always comedy gold when this happens.

Also, kudos to you having the balls taking this to a big tournament! :)

Countertoplol

03-21-2013, 01:22 PM

My roommate and I have been tuning this list for a few months now, and it's been amazing.

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Blood Moon

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Hound of Griselbrand
4 Goblin Guide
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
1 Moltensteel Dragon
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Avalanche Riders
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

SB: 4 Angel of Despair
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Silent Arbiter
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Pyroclasm

The sideboard is rough, and the avalanche riders probably aren't the best card (could be a flametongue kavu or something) but that's where we're at right now.

I know playing Goblin Guide in chalice.dec seems silly, but I can't can't the amount of times I've dropped a guide followed by chalice turn one and proceeded to win on it. Guide also draws spot removal if we can't blank it, and can win on his own with a jitte. Yes, drawing one after you've set a chalice on 1 kinda sucks, but he still can be put under a chrome mox, and I've found that the pros he brings greatly outweigh the cons.

Let me know what you guys think.

Esper3k

03-21-2013, 01:24 PM

Goblin Guide does seem really... weird...

Why not run something like Phyrexian Revoker that can be played off of your Sol Lands and disrupts your opponent?

Countertoplol

03-21-2013, 01:28 PM

Goblin Guide does seem really... weird...

Why not run something like Phyrexian Revoker that can be played off of your Sol Lands and disrupts your opponent?

Yea I know it seems really strange, but the deck feels a lot more powerful to me with the guides. I tried Revokers in the main, and I didn't really like them, but I definitely understand how powerful they are. I don't think I can convince anyone with words that Goblin Guide is a good choice, so I'll just suggest that you give them a try and let me know what you think.

Zupponn

03-23-2013, 02:28 AM

Countertoplol

03-23-2013, 02:35 AM

Interesting idea with the Guides. I'll have to try that out. I do think that both Koth and Avalanche Riders could be swapped for something else, like maybe Flametongue Kavu, Lodestone Golem, or Lord of Shatterskull Pass. Maybe even try moving some of the Phyrexian Revokers to the main alongside the Guides for some even more aggressive beatdown.

Those slots actually used to be flametongues, but I kept running into situations where there was no target for it to shoot. I love the idea of lodestone, I don't know why I haven't tried it yet, I'm definitely gonna test him out. Thanks for the suggestions.

jin

03-23-2013, 03:21 AM

Regarding Goblin Guide, do you think the power comes from the intel you gain or is it from the damage race? I've always felt that Dragon Stompy has been lacking in the early damage department. The Goblin Guides might help with that...

report

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have a question. What did you take out for the Serum Powders and which hands did you use the Powder? I ask this because I'm curious to know if you didn't take out those cards, would those hands have been keep-able?

What was so great about Ingot Chewer? Did you have a lot of trouble with Artifacts? For the UWx match ups, I have both Boil x2 and Anarchy x3 in my SB. It's a known fact that control decks are a bad match up and I feel those 2 are the main control colours, so that's why I'm so hateful against them. What do you guys think?

PS: I'm still unsure as to the correct number of Bonfire... I'm thinking if I only play 2 and I open with 1, I might be far less likely to miracle into the second. Maybe I should go back to 4...

Countertoplol

03-23-2013, 02:29 PM

Regarding Goblin Guide, do you think the power comes from the intel you gain or is it from the damage race? I've always felt that Dragon Stompy has been lacking in the early damage department. The Goblin Guides might help with that...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have a question. What did you take out for the Serum Powders and which hands did you use the Powder? I ask this because I'm curious to know if you didn't take out those cards, would those hands have been keep-able?

What was so great about Ingot Chewer? Did you have a lot of trouble with Artifacts? For the UWx match ups, I have both Boil x2 and Anarchy x3 in my SB. It's a known fact that control decks are a bad match up and I feel those 2 are the main control colours, so that's why I'm so hateful against them. What do you guys think?

PS: I'm still unsure as to the correct number of Bonfire... I'm thinking if I only play 2 and I open with 1, I might be far less likely to miracle into the second. Maybe I should go back to 4...

The info it gives is nice, but I think a lot of the power of the card comes from the early game damage + the ability to hold Jitte. Another very powerful function of the card is drawing removal. I've had plenty of games where my goblin guide gets forced or draws my opponents only spot removal which lets me force through the bigger threats.

jin

03-24-2013, 01:15 PM

The info it gives is nice, but I think a lot of the power of the card comes from the early game damage + the ability to hold Jitte. Another very powerful function of the card is drawing removal. I've had plenty of games where my goblin guide gets forced or draws my opponents only spot removal which lets me force through the bigger threats.

If it's just the damage, then I think there are other more synergetic ways to deal damage. I've been recently play testing Kargan, it led me to come to a realization. The reason why all of these Dragons are so good isn't because of their Fire breathing abilities or their double strike. What makes them good is because of their evasion. So now, I'm trying to build a deck around not massive red creatures, but red creatures with flight damage.

I think Gathan Raider is really good value, but the fact that we have to keep up Hellbent and the fact that it can be chump-ed by a 0/1 just annoys me. I'm trying to find a replacement for him, and decided that Big Red creatures like Lord of Shatterskull Pass (my old favourite in this deck) just can't deal damage well enough because of chump blockers. I ran into this thing called Firewing Phoenix and wanted to get the opinion of the people on the board. It's got flight damage. With moon effects, it comes back. It doesn't seem that bad. I wonder if anyone has tried it before?

What about Pardic Dragon?

Countertoplol

03-24-2013, 03:41 PM

If it's just the damage, then I think there are other more synergetic ways to deal damage. I've been recently play testing Kargan, it led me to come to a realization. The reason why all of these Dragons are so good isn't because of their Fire breathing abilities or their double strike. What makes them good is because of their evasion. So now, I'm trying to build a deck around not massive red creatures, but red creatures with flight damage.

I think Gathan Raider is really good value, but the fact that we have to keep up Hellbent and the fact that it can be chump-ed by a 0/1 just annoys me. I'm trying to find a replacement for him, and decided that Big Red creatures like Lord of Shatterskull Pass (my old favourite in this deck) just can't deal damage well enough because of chump blockers. I ran into this thing called Firewing Phoenix and wanted to get the opinion of the people on the board. It's got flight damage. With moon effects, it comes back. It doesn't seem that bad. I wonder if anyone has tried it before?

What about Pardic Dragon?

Firewing phoenix actually sounds good, I'm gonna try that one out in the spot of avalanche riders. As for Kargan and Pardic dragon, I think being able to put the guide out and swing turn one is incredibly valuable. Additionally, it's kind of tough sometimes to get RR turn one.

I think I misspoke when I suggested that the damage Guide gives is the reason for playing it. I play them for the damage along with the info (not the strongest part), as well for the fact that they draw removal or counters. It's amazing when your guide gets forced and you can drop a magus or hound of griselbrand turn 2.Another thing Guide brings to the table is making your opponent think you are on burn. It isn't gamebreaking, but it makes your opponent play differently which is valuable.

jin

03-24-2013, 08:01 PM

Firewing phoenix actually sounds good, I'm gonna try that one out in the spot of avalanche riders. As for Kargan and Pardic dragon, I think being able to put the guide out and swing turn one is incredibly valuable. Additionally, it's kind of tough sometimes to get RR turn one.

I think I misspoke when I suggested that the damage Guide gives is the reason for playing it. I play them for the damage along with the info (not the strongest part), as well for the fact that they draw removal or counters. It's amazing when your guide gets forced and you can drop a magus or hound of griselbrand turn 2.Another thing Guide brings to the table is making your opponent think you are on burn. It isn't gamebreaking, but it makes your opponent play differently which is valuable.

I should mention, [upon the advice of members on this board [boy, that sounds cools]) I'm running 8 moon effects, so double red isn't really hard to land.

Ace/Homebrew

03-25-2013, 09:09 PM

I have a question. What did you take out for the Serum Powders and which hands did you use the Powder? I ask this because I'm curious to know if you didn't take out those cards, would those hands have been keep-able?
I took a FtK and a Bonfire out for the Powders. I made up for it with 3 Pyroclasm in the board (which I don't believe I used at all). The hands I Powdered away were either not keepable or at least not as good as the opportunity to look at 7 new cards. Most times it was a 1 land hand. One of the Powders I used just because I didn't have something unfair to play turn 1. I was surprised how much I actually liked them. I believe 2 is correct. I will continue to test the card and report back how good/bad/indifferent they are.

What was so great about Ingot Chewer? Did you have a lot of trouble with Artifacts? For the UWx match ups, I have both Boil x2 and Anarchy x3 in my SB. It's a known fact that control decks are a bad match up and I feel those 2 are the main control colours, so that's why I'm so hateful against them. What do you guys think?
Chewer was great for me by destroying Helm against Miracles which broke his Energy Field and it took a couple relevant artifacts against Imperial Painter. I like the evoke cost of :r:, the actual CMC of 5, and that he's a creature. All of these help make sure he can be cast and resolve in a number of circumstances.

I'm still unsure as to the correct number of Bonfire... I'm thinking if I only play 2 and I open with 1, I might be far less likely to miracle into the second. Maybe I should go back to 4...
I found that hardcasting Bonfire for 5 (getting it to 2 damage) is still a great option against the creatures seeing lots of play. I'm down to 2 copies because I find myself hoping to draw a land a lot (to play out my hand, get hellbent, and swing for lots) and drawing Bonfire instead. In those situations it basically slows me down a turn for 2 or 3 damage.

I'm really enjoying this deck and like the Hellbent version. I don't believe I have the sideboard right yet but I'll get there. It is really easy to hand your opponent back a game you had won. I have another tournament in April and as long as the meta looks like it does I'm bringing this deck.

jin

03-26-2013, 07:54 AM

Serum Powder

Serum Powder as a 2 of, what happens if you draw it? Do you play it? It doesn't pitch to Chrome Mox, so I'm hesitant to add in more colourless cards. I hate when Chrome Mox is dead and you need to pitch for some mana.

Ace/Homebrew

03-26-2013, 08:36 PM

Serum Powder
I would like to use 29 or 30 red cards to reliably imprint a color onto Chrome Mox. I have the same concerns about Mox as you which is why I was adamant that the card in Fortune Thief's spot be red and non-artifact. My list currently has 27 red cards which is less than I'd like however I believe that the Serum Powders change the math somewhat.

I kept several hands with Serum Powder although I believe I took a new hand more than half the times I opened with them. In goldfishing this was not the case, but in the tournament it worked out that way. Serum Powder saw play if it was keeping me from getting Hellbent or if I needed to get to 4 mana. I remember that my primary discard fodder for Gathan Raiders was Powder, Mox, and Land.

My feelings on this deck is that the game is won or lost in the first 2 turns. Whether or not that is true, I keep that in mind when deciding to keep or throw away a hand. I look for a hand with 2 hosers and the mana to resolve them. Ideally this is CotV and Blood Moon. I'll also keep a hand with 1 hoser and 1 threat with the mana to play them. The hands I throw away are usually all or no mana.
When I look through my list I see ten spots that are "flex". They are currently:

2 Flametongue Kavu
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Serum Powder
1 Koth, of the Hammer
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Fortune Thief

Of them, the only ones I wouldn't consider other options for are Koth and Jitte. I like them both as 1-of's because they are never forced to sit in my hand that way. I am faithful that WotC will eventually print another mono-red planeswalker that will be good in this deck... The problem with cards like FtK and Bonfire is that they are either all-stars or dead cards depending on the match up. I would prefer to run Phyrexian Revoker main deck but we run into the Chrome Mox problem again.

Arsenal

04-04-2013, 02:45 PM

jin

04-05-2013, 03:26 AM

This was one of my first Legacy decks (entrance into the format for not a lot of $$$). I took it apart and want to put it back to together, just to have around as another Legacy deck to loan out, etc. Looking at tcdecks, I see that people have made the transition from the "traditional" Dragon core to more of a transforming Werewolf creature base. The taxing elements remain the same, but the beefy creatures seemed to have changed (maybe not?). Explain?

Hellbent is hard to get and is also bad as an MTG long term game plan. Rakdos is too much of a power house to not be played, but Gathan Raider is very much a flexible slot that can be replaced. I'm tinkering with that very idea right now.

I have a suggestion: since pure control decks with a fairly stable mana base is a concern for Dragon Stompy, has anyone considered playing Sulfuic Vortex as an alternative and resiliant win-condition? I'm trying 2 right now as I've made quite a bit of room from getting rid of equipment and Gathan Raiders. I'm playing 8 moon effects main with Level Up dudes, and flying dragons. The idea is to get damage through direction damage and flight damage. I'm trying to rely less on Hellbent, but am still running 3x Rakdos, because that guy is just plain scary for decks that can't answer him.

Masamune

04-16-2013, 12:49 PM

Hello everyone, sorry for long time, how you are you? Testing with DS yet? IMO in this current meta (full of BUG and RUG decks) DS would be a perfect deck to face all of then. I'm playing nowadays with Sneak Attack and Post-Ramp deck in Magic Online. Since I already have all sol lands in my collection I could purchase new cards to construct DS and play with it again. Plus showing all the experiences in MOL here, talking and sharing new ideas for us. Indeed many times have passed away and WoTC didn't release new Red cards to improve our deck. Lame. By the way are you playing with DS in big tournaments in weekend?

Anarky87

04-16-2013, 02:03 PM

Might be taking this to a tournament on Saturday, can anyone give some suggestions as to what a SB would look like for a largely unknown meta? I believe there will be 1 RUG Delver deck, a super budget ANT deck, and maybe a RIP+Helm control deck. Thanks in advance

Zupponn

04-16-2013, 05:41 PM

I'd have to say that something like this is always a good idea:

4x Anarchy
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Ratchet Bomb
3x Pyroclasm

Other cards to consider:
Pyrokinesis
Pyroblast
Red Elememtal Blast
Ingot Chewer
Manic Vandal
Shattering Spree

Masamune

04-17-2013, 12:07 AM

Zupponn

05-02-2013, 04:37 AM

Just had an interesting match on MTGO. Played against one of those werewolf variants of DS. I was running an older list with Arc-Sloggers and FTKs and RPDs. What I did notice was that the combination of Rakka Mar and Instigator Gang is really good. Hanweir Watchkeep did little to impress me though. He just felt like a lot like Gathan Raiders, which I've been trying to get away from as much as possible.

In the three games we played, Game 1 he had dudes and I had lock pieces, so I died. Then after I sided out most of my lock pieces, I won game 2 on the back of RPD and then Game 3 through an FTK and a Jitte-equipped Magus.

I've seen this Werewolf version of DS on TC Decks have some decent finishes recently, so maybe it's something to look into. At the very least, I'm going to try out Instigator Gang in a normal DS shell and see how he plays.

Anarky87

05-02-2013, 12:14 PM

I've had Instigator Gang in my list as a 3-of for awhile now, and I've always been impressed with him. He does pretty much what the decks wants, in that once you get your opponent in that stranglehold of lock pieces, he flips and ends the game extremely fast. 8 damage or more a turn is pretty legitimate. I've been running him and Hound of Griselbrand, which has seemed pretty decent so far, though I agree with Gathan Raiders being kinda meh.

jin

05-05-2013, 03:19 AM

Anarky87

05-05-2013, 04:37 PM

This is true, though it hasn't been a problem yet that I've experienced. Usually either a Moon effect has cut them off those colors, or if they had been able to hit the wolf, they still have a RPD or Hound w/Jitte coming at them as well. But it is something that can happen, which is why I don't play any of the others save for IG, and just a 3-of at that.

Ace/Homebrew

05-16-2013, 02:13 AM

Redcap's Corner started weekly Legacy! Never had the chance for weekly events but I'm excited that once a week I can get in some sanctioned play. It's only a half hour from work but over an hour home. :rolleyes:

I've been looking through TCDecks (http://www.tcdecks.net/tipo.php?archetype=Dragon%20Stompy&format=Legacy) for ideas and came up with the following list:

Mana (27)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
8 Mountains
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Locks (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Trinisphere

Beats (8)
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders

Miscellany (10)
3 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Rakka Mar
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Fortune Thief

Sideboard (15)
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Flametongue Kavu
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Trinisphere
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Tormod's Crypt

Maindeck Caverns naming Human was pretty good. I opted for graveyard hate instead of S+T hate. Might do a split next time instead. Ten player event.

Round 1 - Anthony playing Jund - 2-0
G1 - He starts game 1 with a fetchland. I play Mountain and pass. He fetches for a Bayou. His turn he Thoughtseizes seeing an Ancient Tomb and 2 Magus. He takes one but cannot deal with the one I play turn 2.
Out: Thief and Akroma. In: 2 FtK
G2 - I mull to 6 and keep SSG, RPD, 2 Raiders, a Cavern and a Mountain. He leads with Thoughtseize taking SSG. I draw Ancient Tomb and play Mountain. Turn 2 he Hymns which makes me discard RPD and a Raiders. I top deck Blood Moon and play it. He plays a Mountain and passes. I play a morph then discard to make him 5/5. He meets double bolt. That's all he's got though and a Monkey Shaman gets there.

Round 2 - Avery playing BUG Landstill - 2-0
G1 - I start with Magus of the Moon. He looks at his hand and scoops.
No boarding. I put him on Shardless BUG.
G2 - I keep City of Traitors, 2 SSG, Magus, Blood Moon, Raiders, and RPD. He starts with Thoughtseize. He doesn't have the counter for the Moon affect I'm playing my first turn and scoops.

Round 3 - Garrett playing Miracles - 1-1
Garrett and I have the same LGS. Most of my testing of this deck has been against his Miracles so I know this is a lousy matchup for me and want to win or lose the first game quickly so I can board in my Revokers.
G1 - I start with CotV@1 and it meets Force. He plays a Plains. I resolve Magus turn 2 and he plays Mountains over the next few turns. He has 2 Tops by the time I play Blood Moon. RPD sees the battlefield and he plays Helm. Helm gets him a Magus from the top of my library when I attacked with the team. He blocks my Magus and they trade. Terminus deals with RPD. I play a Raiders. It also gets tucked by Terminus. Bonfire gets him to 2 life. RPD meets Swords. 5/5 Raiders finally gets there.
Out: 3sphere and Thief. In: Revokers
G2 - He starts which lets him Spell Pierce my Magus. He passes and I play RPD turn 2. EoT he plays Enlightened Tutor for CoP:Red. We both read the card and decide he has to pay :1: for both strikes of a hellbent RPD. The enchantment keeps a Jitte carrying dragon at bay even after being joined by a 2nd RPD and a Raiders. Revoker is played to neutralize CoP but it gets Sworded. Terminus clears the field. A Blood Moon makes him Bolt himself with 3 fetch-lands but he never gets proper use out of his Tops because he cannot fetch at his leisure. Nothing happens for a while cause he boarded out too many win-cons. Rakka starts to make him worry but I still cannot get damage in through the CoP. Jaya destroys a Counterbalance before Terminus clears the board again. Eventually Jace does me in but the round only had a minute or two left.
I eventually caught on that a morph creature gets around CoP:Red!

Round 4 - Chris playing Omni-Tell - 1-2
I put him in U/R Aggro/Burn cause he's played it against me before.
G1 - I start with 3sphere and he Forces. He Brainstorms. Turn 2 my Koth gets Dazed. He Ponders. I play Caverns and stick a RPD. He plays Show and Tell. I put Jaya on the board but realize if he DOES show Omniscience, I shouldn't get another turn... He proceeds to play Em and Griz and kills me with his extra turn.
Crap... should have brought S+T hate. Out: 3 Bonfire, Thief. In: 3sphere and 3 Revokers.
G2 - I start with CotV@1 and he Forces. Caverns lets me resolve Magus. I play a Revoker on Petal since he had one on his side. He Wishes for Pyroclasm and wipes the board. I play Jaya and Jitte while he Wishes for S+T. Jaya starts beating for 6 and he can't find a monster to show me.
G3 - He starts and somehow I resolve a CotV@1. He shows Griz and I show something unimpressive.

I make Top 4. I get to play Chris again. :eyebrow:
I realize that Trinisphere stops him from comboing out with Omniscience and Petals of Insight
G1 - I get RPD on the field while he cantrips. He Wishes for S+T. He shows Omni. I shop 3sphere. He looks for a win-con while RPD chips him down to 13. He finds Emrakul and that does it.
Out: Bonfires. In: 3sphere and 2 Revokers.
G2 - I start and resolve Magus, then CotV@1. Win
G3 - He mulls to a good 6. I resolve a Magus. He Wishes for S+T. The RPD I show cannot deal with Emrakul...

I'm considering cutting Bonfire, 1 Revoker, and 1 grave hate from the board for 3 pieces of Show and Tell hate. The match up isn't devastating but the best way to beat it is to show something that deals with their threat because they will probably counter anything you try to cast.

Anarky87

05-16-2013, 12:41 PM

G2 - He starts which lets him Spell Pierce my Magus

Was it some other counter, because Spell Pierce can't hit creatures.

L10

05-16-2013, 04:56 PM

He probably meant to say Blood Moon.

Ace/Homebrew

05-16-2013, 08:24 PM

Yeah... I'd like to say I meant Blood Moon but my notes would indicate otherwise

me | him*
-----------------
20 AT | 20 FL
18 Magus | 19 Spell Pierce
RPDragon | 18 FL E Tutor

* means he went first
AT is Ancient Tomb
FL is Fetch Land

Looks like neither of us paid attention to the relevant text... Wah wah.
I'll be more alert in the future.

L10

05-16-2013, 09:29 PM

Hey, at least you are honest. I'd be careful though. I have seen people try to Spell Pierce creatures and see if they can get away with it. Just couple months ago, I was fighting this new guy at my LGS, and he tried to Spell Pierce my Metalworker on G1 (silly mistake), G2 (um, okay?), and G3 (really?). Never seen him since.

Arsenal

05-21-2013, 10:22 AM

For those still running the classic Dragon build, M14 spoiled a new potential inclusion:

Scourge of Valkas 2RRR
Mythic Rarity
Creature - Dragon
Flying
Whenever Scourge of Valkas or another Dragon enters the battlefield under your control, it deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the number of Dragons you control.
R: Scourge of Valkas gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
4/4

It firebreathes like most of the other dragons in the deck, but it also has reach in the form of ETB trigger. Thoughts? I think this may not be agressive enough (for the same cost, you can run Thundermaw Hellkite for 5/5 Haste that kills Lingering Souls tokens), but wanted to throw it out there to see what others thought.

Ace/Homebrew

05-21-2013, 03:55 PM

for the same cost, you can run Thundermaw Hellkite for 5/5 Haste that kills Lingering Souls tokens
Pretty much what you said there. I am hopeful that M14 will have some new toys for us though.

Zupponn

05-21-2013, 04:32 PM

Sure, it has the same CMC, but the RRR makes it virtually unplayable in this deck.

Ace/Homebrew

05-31-2013, 02:26 AM

Twenty people showed for weekly Legacy at Redcap's! Unfortunately I missed last week. There were a total of 19 different deck types. Talk about diversity! Decks included: Dragon Stompy, RUG Thresh, MUD, Merfolk, :u:/:r: Delver, Aluren, Jund, Lands, Dredge, :u:/:b: PW Stompy, Maverick, Team Italia, Enchantress, 2 Show and Tell, Shardless BUG, Budget Blue brew, Esper brew with Standstill, and Stiflenaught brew with Varolz.

We went 4 rounds => cut to top 8.

Mana (27)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
8 Mountains
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Locks (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Trinisphere

Beats (8)
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders

Miscellany (10)
3 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Rakka Mar
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Arc-Slogger

Sideboard (15)
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Flametongue Kavu
3 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Trinisphere
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt

Changes from 2 weeks ago include Arc Slogger for Fortune Thief in the maindeck. In the sideboard I made room for Show + Tell hate. -1 Revoker, -1 Crypt, -1 Bonfire, +3 CitR

Round 1 - Ed playing Show + Tell - 2-1-0
Game 1 I start with CotV@1. Next turn I try for 3sphere which meets Force. My turn 3 play is Jitte. Turn 4 I resolve 3sphere. My first threat is a Magus. Equip Jitte and swing. Raiders joins in and it's over.
In: 3 CitR, 1 3sphere. - Out: 3 Bonfire, Slogger.
Game 2 he starts after I mull to 6. He resolves Show and Tell showing Omniscience. I show something worthless like Spirit Guide. He casts Emrakul and I scoop it up.
Game 3 he mulls to 5 and I keep a hand with Confusion. I lead with Mountain, pass. He ponders. Another Mountain from me, then Jitte. He plays Show + Tell. He shows Omniscience, I show CitR and take his enchantment while giving him mine. He reads Confusion and plays a Lotus Petal to take my Jitte. My turn I cast Akroma and Thundermaw Hellkite for free. He scoops.

Round 2 - Sam playing Punishing Lands - 2-1-0
Game 1 I start with Blood Moon. He plays a Mountain. Turn 2 I land Koth and he picks up his Mountain to move to game 2.
In: 2 Ingot Chewer, 3 Revoker, 3 Crypt. - Out: 3 Bonfire, 3 Trinisphere, Slogger, and a Chrome Mox.
Game 2 he starts with Bayou, Mox Diamond, Sphere of Resistance. That is enough to put me behind on my plans. His Port makes things worse. Ingot Chewer dealt with the Sphere and I get a CotV@0 and Magus on the board. By this time he has a Confidant. Punishing Fire deals with Magus. He plays CotV@3 to keep me off a Moon effect. This continues to go downhill and I scoop up with 20 minutes left for game 3.
Game 3 I start with Blood Moon and CotV@0. I then get stuck on 2 lands for a hundred turns. He gets CotV@3 and @4. I start drawing lands and play Raiders for 5 mana. I keep playing them and swinging and it's enough to get there.

Round 3 - Avery playing :u:/:b: Planeswalker Stompy with Thopter/Sword - 2-1-0
I apologize if I am mis-naming this deck. Two weeks ago Avery was on BUGstill and scooped turn 1 to Blood Moon both games. He laughs as we sit down because this week he says he can play through a Blood Moon.
Game 1 he starts and ramps into an early Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. I stick a Magus but his mana rocks and basics let him play through it. Jace and Tezz tag team me with Ensnaring Bridge keeping them safe.
In: 3 Ingot Chewer, 3 Revoker, 2 FtK. - Out: 4 Chalice, 3 Trinisphere, 1 Slogger.
I've never boarded out half of my lock strategy... but it seemed correct.
Game 2 I start with City, SSG, Blood Moon. It meets Force and I think I'm about to lose game 2. I draw another Blood Moon, tap City, play my only other land (Mountain), and this Moon sticks but I'm behind on mana. Moon was enough and I win on the back of Jaya and a Revoker.
Game 3 I mull to 6 and he starts. I resolve Blood Moon. He gets a Signet allowing him to play Strix. Ingot Chewer blows up the Signet leaving him with only Mountains. He plays another rock and Revoker makes it useless. He cannot draw basics. Rakka Mar makes elementals that get in because he cannot empty his hand to get any use out of his Ensnaring Bridge. Jitte makes the clock quicker.

Round 4 - Joe playing Maverick - 0-2-0
I make Joe play it cause I'm a dick. Of course I lose!
Game 1 I mull to 6 and start with Blood Moon. He plays Savannah. I play land, go. He top decks a Forest and GSZ for Noble Hierarch. I get CotV@1 which keeps his hand full of unplayable cards, but the Forest and Hierarch are enough to keep Blood Moon from mattering. His Jitte equipped Knight of the Reliquary gets there.
In: 2 FtK, 3 Revoker. - Out: 3 Trinisphere, Slogger, Akroma.
Game 2 I start but mull to 5... Mountain, go. He plays Hierarch. I play Revoker naming Hierarch. He Swords the Revoker, plays another Hierarch, and jokes about Bonfire blowing him out. I miracle Bonfire for 1. That was all I had though. He stomps me good.

Top 8
Consisted of Dragon Stompy vs Shardless; Jund vs Show + Tell; Maverick vs MUD; and Esper vs RUG

Round 1 - Patrick playing Shardless BUG - 2-0-0
Game 1 I start after mulling to 6. All I have are Ancient Tombs. He plays Deathrite Shaman. He asks if he can Force a morph as I cast one. I confirm he can and he does. He plays Hymn to Tourach taking Jaya and Bonfire but leaving me a Magus and another card. I top deck a red source and slam Magus on the table. Eventually Raiders joins the party but Magus took him out of the game.
In: 3 Revoker, 2 FtK. - Out: 3 Trinisphere, Slogger, Akroma
Game 2 I mull to 6 and he starts with DRS. I play Blood Moon and he Forces it. Koth also gets Forced. He starts removing his forces to make me lose 2. I get a Pit Dragon and Raiders on the board and ride Hellbent to victory.

Top 4 was Dragon Stompy, Show + Tell, Maverick, and RUG Thresh. We split the prize 4 ways and went home.

I'm excited for the upcoming rules change. I believe I will bring Koth up to 3 and Jaya to 2.