[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Blastoderm]

hey guys, so i got 2nd in a scg iq on the 26th in dalton running stompy

list:

12 mnt
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors

4 chrome mox
4 simian spirit guide

4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the voice
4 blood moon
4 magus of the moon

4 hound of griselbrand
4 koth of the hammer
4 moggcatcher
3 siege-gang commander
1 tuktuk scrapper

sb:
2 anarchy
1 sulfur elemental
2 ratchet bomb
1 tuktuk scrapper
2 stingscourger
2 ensnaring bridge
2 pyrokeinesis
2 faerie macabre
1 goblin sharpshooter

i kept pretty bad notes from my actual games but of 5 rounds of swiss i went 3-1-1 into the finals

round 1: BUG: 2-0 blood moon'd both games, he played a total of two spells in the match
round 2: belcher 0-2 i was on the draw game one and kept a crappy one in the second game
round 3: delver 2-1 i made a mistake game one and got blown out by a stifle, but had blood moon in 2+3
round 4: reanimator 2-1 this was some terrible magic. g1 he mulls to 4, 0 spells. g2 i keep a terrible hand with faerie macabre. he goes for it on turn two and i blow him out, but i draw 0 lands. i never draw any in six turns. he casts exhume on a tidespout tyrant and i almost race with siege-gang. g3 chalice
round 5: ID

top 8
round 6: high tide: 2-0. g1 he mulls to 5. moggcatcher getting singleton scrapper gets him. g2 he goes off, but fizzles.
round 7: storm: 2-0. g1 t1 trinisphere, he tries to go off through it and whiffs. g2 t1 i get duressed he takes my trinisphere but i draw chalice off the top.
round 8: reanimator: 0-2 this was miserable. he has t1 (!) iona g1 and g2 i play bad imprint a moggcatcher to try and play around spell snare for a blood moon. i never draw a threat and he finds a show and tell four turns later.

People might wonder why no jitte, but I literally never wanted it in testing and it just clogged my hand up. It would have been pretty much worthless here.
Anarchy just felt like wasted space in the sideboard. Sulfur elemental would have been a much better slot. I will probably also convert psychokinesis to cave-in. I really could not find any confusion in the ranks, although I'm not sure what I would cut for it.

Regarding the threats - Koth and the Hound were both kinda eh. I found myself boarding them out a lot. Maybe Koth becomes Chandra, Pyromaster? I think I want to turn the hound into Rakka Mar. I mostly played against non-interactive decks, so maybe other people have had better experience. Overall, I like the moggcatcher build. I never lost a game after I tutored up a siege-gang, but then again, I already had lock pieces in play.

Which made me wonder if this deck needs to run thorn of amethyst.

Btw - if you're not running 4x SSG, 4x chrome mox, you are doing it wrong. it is so important to be able to trinisphere/moon/chalice on turn 1

Nice result! Against reanimator/show and tell I think you'll need 4 ensnaring bridge. It's more versatile than confusion in the ranks (only good against show and tell (not even good against sneak attack)?) and you can even bring it in in other matchups (merfolk, stoneblade, TNN decks). Koth really shines with it too. I wouldn't play thorn of amethyst. Play 3-4 Revoker sb (great against top, stoneforge, sneak attack, griselbrand, LED). If death and taxes gets played alot then yea sulfur elemental would be nice, otherwise cave-in/pyrokinesis will do. Not sure about ratchet bomb...seems a little slow to me. There's some miracles in my meta so I like koth (I play 2-3) alot as well as a couple boil in the sb. Hound of griselbrand is decent against goyf/batterskull/liliana, doesn't die to bolt either. Protecting Koth until his ultimate is sometimes my gameplan where I can't come back with creatures. Rakka mar is also useful against (again miracles) jace and liliana (makes a token, has haste). Liliana can be a pain if you can't deal with her right away.

Right now I'm playing your list -1 chrome mox -2 koth -1 tuktuk scrapper -1 hound +3 rakka mar, +2 instigator gang (don't want him too early, more of a late game finisher). Multiple chrome mox in my hand was pissing me off so I went down to 3.

When you play against interactive decks that can play through blood moon (maverick, miracles), you'll see how moggcatcher, rakka mar and hound pull their weight :)

[Zupponn]

One thing about Confusion is that it swaps for Omniscience if they drop that one.

[Entromancer]

Confusion is something you want to hardcast vs Show and Tell? Also, could a Sea/Faerie Stompy run a similar game plan, using 4 Seahunter and 4 True-Name Nemesis?

[Nitrospira]

Confusion is something you want to hardcast vs Show and Tell? Also, could a Sea/Faerie Stompy run a similar game plan, using 4 Seahunter and 4 True-Name Nemesis?
It merits testing, but I feel like Sea Stompy has enough win conditions in Sea Drake, Serendib Efreet, and Illusory Angel. This would probably be a better question for the Sea Stompy thread though :)

[Blastoderm]

Confusion is something you want to hardcast vs Show and Tell? Also, could a Sea/Faerie Stompy run a similar game plan, using 4 Seahunter and 4 True-Name Nemesis?

Except blood moon rapes this format and sea stompy doesn't play it.

[FTW]

What do you guys think about beating TNN by boarding in Meekstone or Ensnaring Bridge in Goblin Stompy? Those are tools that Dragon Stompy cannot exploit.

[Blastoderm]

What do you guys think about beating TNN by boarding in Meekstone or Ensnaring Bridge in Goblin Stompy? Those are tools that Dragon Stompy cannot exploit.

I always pack 4 bridges in my sb for this reason. It's so versatile!

[Zupponn]

Confusion is something you want to hardcast vs Show and Tell?

You could, and I've done it before, but if you drop Confusion off of Show and Tell, you get the instant swap of Omniscience for one of your enchantments. If they drop a dude, then you swap forone of your dudes, if you have any on the board.

[asjohnson]

I am newish to the deck and have been reading the forums around here. How is dragon stompy winning once ensnaring bridge is resolved? I definitely see how it is awesome against a ton of decks, but it stops us from attacking too. I suspect that I am missing something obvious, but I am definitely missing something.

[Nitrospira]

I am newish to the deck and have been reading the forums around here. How is dragon stompy winning once ensnaring bridge is resolved? I definitely see how it is awesome against a ton of decks, but it stops us from attacking too. I suspect that I am missing something obvious, but I am definitely missing something.

We usually have a card or two in hand, so Magus + Revoker beatdown can get there eventually. Otherwise, you can tick up Koth until you get to ping them to death with angry mountains. One nice thing about Bridge is that this deck doesn't need to play many spells, so we can slowly adjust our hand size as we see fit.

Opposing Bridges, however, are much harder to deal with since you opponent can empty their hand to stall. Once again, Koth wins through that though.

[Blastoderm]

I am newish to the deck and have been reading the forums around here. How is dragon stompy winning once ensnaring bridge is resolved? I definitely see how it is awesome against a ton of decks, but it stops us from attacking too. I suspect that I am missing something obvious, but I am definitely missing something.

In goblin stompy your guys are usually 2 power

[Rock Lee]

I don't frequent this thread, but figured I would toss out my build I putt around with and occasionally let the significant other destroy decks locally with. I call it "Human Stompy" but really the is the only revolutionary concept of it.

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
8 [TE] Mountain (1)

// Creatures
1 [V11] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 [ISD] Instigator Gang/Wildblood Pack
1 [WWK] Tuktuk Scrapper
1 [PLC] Stingscourger
1 [FNM] Murderous Redcap
3 [MOR] Taurean Mauler
4 [NE] Moggcatcher
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
1 [ST] Goblin Settler
2 [M10] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon

// Spells
3 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TSP] Sudden Shock

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [SHM] Everlasting Torment
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [JGC] Imperial Recruiter

[asjohnson]

We usually have a card or two in hand, so Magus + Revoker beatdown can get there eventually. Otherwise, you can tick up Koth until you get to ping them to death with angry mountains. One nice thing about Bridge is that this deck doesn't need to play many spells, so we can slowly adjust our hand size as we see fit.

Opposing Bridges, however, are much harder to deal with since you opponent can empty their hand to stall. Once again, Koth wins through that though.

That makes sense. I can see winning it with Koth or seige gang with kiki. I guess I just have this vision of playing it out against show and tell to buy time, but then he is sitting there with a Griselbrand, which would shut down attacking with 2 power dudes. I suppose a stingscourger to bounce him as well. Its got options, I just wanted to make sure it was on the hand size management and not some cool trick I missed. Thanks.

[Blastoderm]

I don't frequent this thread, but figured I would toss out my build I putt around with and occasionally let the significant other destroy decks locally with. I call it "Human Stompy" but really the is the only revolutionary concept of it.

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
8 [TE] Mountain (1)

// Creatures
1 [V11] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 [ISD] Instigator Gang/Wildblood Pack
1 [WWK] Tuktuk Scrapper
1 [PLC] Stingscourger
1 [FNM] Murderous Redcap
3 [MOR] Taurean Mauler
4 [NE] Moggcatcher
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
1 [ST] Goblin Settler
2 [M10] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon

// Spells
3 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TSP] Sudden Shock

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [SHM] Everlasting Torment
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [JGC] Imperial Recruiter

Looks good but I was never a fan of taurean mauler due to the decks #1 priority is to prevent the opponent from casting spells (and taurean mauler is good when your opponent casts lots). How are you finding sudden shock? I've cut my chrome mox down to 3 and added an extra mountain (Belcher has also cut down to 3 for consistency reasons). Are the one-ofs ever a problem? Currently I have stingscourger and tuktuk in my sb. Your sb also looks like it could use something vs sneak/show (ensnaring bridge, confusion in the ranks). Also..no blood moon!?

[Rock Lee]

Looks good but I was never a fan of taurean mauler due to the decks #1 priority is to prevent the opponent from casting spells (and taurean mauler is good when your opponent casts lots). How are you finding sudden shock? I've cut my chrome mox down to 3 and added an extra mountain (Belcher has also cut down to 3 for consistency reasons). Are the one-ofs ever a problem? Currently I have stingscourger and tuktuk in my sb. Your sb also looks like it could use something vs sneak/show (ensnaring bridge, confusion in the ranks). Also..no blood moon!?

Sudden shock means all the midrange decks and DNT fear me.

Mauler is there because of instigator gang, since the two of them both want opposite things from your opponent, so either way you're making out well.

Phyrexian Revokerx4 is there for sneaky Show. You just name Sneak Attack, and put in a Mogg Catcher off Show & Tell and they lose.

[Blastoderm]

Sudden shock means all the midrange decks and DNT fear me.

Mauler is there because of instigator gang, since the two of them both want opposite things from your opponent, so either way you're making out well.

Phyrexian Revokerx4 is there for sneaky Show. You just name Sneak Attack, and put in a Mogg Catcher off Show & Tell and they lose.

Ok cool. I've had success with 4 Ensnaring Bridge against many decks since your creatures can easily swing through it. Why no blood moon though? I've won countless games off turn 1/2 blood moon. The meta is perfect for this card right now.

[Rock Lee]

Ok cool. I've had success with 4 Ensnaring Bridge against many decks since your creatures can easily swing through it. Why no blood moon though? I've won countless games off turn 1/2 blood moon. The meta is perfect for this card right now.

x4 cavern doesn't enable auto-moons. If you NEED blood moon g2, then sb imperial Recruiters. I don't agree that Moon wrecks the format atm, thus the x4 moon count.

[MGB]

x4 cavern doesn't enable auto-moons. If you NEED blood moon g2, then sb imperial Recruiters. I don't agree that Moon wrecks the format atm, thus the x4 moon count.

Could you maindeck Imperial Recruiter in this deck? How do you feel about that (if someone has a playset of Recruiter sitting around and wants to build this deck).

Also, is there any chance we could see a mini-Primer on this deck and how the Moggcatcher plan works best vs the popular archetypes? I really like this deck *alot* and want to know the best way to play this when I finally build it.

Also, in a Stompy deck like this don't you think 20 Lands + SSG + Mox is a bit too much? I usually find the sweet spot in Tomb/City decks to be around 17-18 lands + 4 Mox. Were you getting mana-screwed alot with less land?

[Blastoderm]

Could you maindeck Imperial Recruiter in this deck? How do you feel about that (if someone has a playset of Recruiter sitting around and wants to build this deck).

Also, is there any chance we could see a mini-Primer on this deck and how the Moggcatcher plan works best vs the popular archetypes? I really like this deck *alot* and want to know the best way to play this when I finally build it.

Also, in a Stompy deck like this don't you think 20 Lands + SSG + Mox is a bit too much? I usually find the sweet spot in Tomb/City decks to be around 17-18 lands + 4 Mox. Were you getting mana-screwed alot with less land?

Back in the dragon stompy days I would play 19 lands 4 mox 4 ssg. Now I'm playing 20 lands 3 mox 4 ssg. Considering everything in the deck costs 3-4-5 I never want to be mana screwed. Casting siege-gang commander is common.

Imperial recruiter is too slow in my opinion. But if you really wanted you could play something like 2.

I suppose I could write something about moggcatcher but the original plan when I first built the deck was not to use toolbox creatures, just seal the game with siege-gangs. I've never been a fan of toolbox cards in a deck with no library manipulation but I understand why people like playing stuff like tuktuk scrapper main. But kikijiki and goblin settler? Please no. For reference you can see my original list and report here:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=734754&viewfull=1#post734754

I got the idea mainly from the Trinity Green decks from waaaaay back in the day. Or that weird GB deck with leyline of the void main because flash was legal. The plan was basically to get skyshroud poacher --> deranged hermit.

Keep in mind, my number one goal was to not autolose to planeswalkers. Jace and liliana were everywhere and dragon stompy wasn't cutting it anymore. A liliana or jace combined with a removal spell would make it almost impossible to come back from. Hound of griselbrand was there because liliana was everywhere as Jund just became a deck, don't think I'd play him now. I'ved replaced him with instigator gang. The sideboard was just thrown together but it didn't matter much...I held off souls tokens equipped with jitte and batterskull without artifact removal for a really long time and still almost won.

[wooboy11]

I'm still debating whether to keep the 3balls in the deck. I don't have much time to test, so I'm wondering what are your opinions on it.

Sometimes 3ball just feels like it could be another threat.

[Blastoderm]

I'm still debating whether to keep the 3balls in the deck. I don't have much time to test, so I'm wondering what are your opinions on it.

Sometimes 3ball just feels like it could be another threat.

- It's terrific against all delver decks (RUG, BUG, UWR) and really kills anything trying to tempo you. Cast a creature? Cast bolt/swords? Keep mana open for counter? They can only do one of these per turn.

- Amazing vs combo (ANT, TES, Elves, High Tide) and to a lesser extent show and tell/reanimator (stops counters, cantrips).

- Will mana screw people often since lots of decks play only 18-20 lands and only depend on ~2 in play.

- Protects your other spells from counters

[nedleeds]

3ball is another explosive start card that is a brick later in the game ... I mean any XXXX stompy deck suffers from the same glut of redundant cards and no Brainstorm to fix the problem. Dragon Stompy also contains 8 redundant moon effects, 8 potential grey ogres etc.. I think it's pretty obvious what the pro's and con's of 3ball are. You just have to decide to gamble on your match ups. I played Moon Stompy at Nashville and played against 2 decks that could give a fuck about blood moon (Sneak, and budget Veteran Explorer with like 8 forests and 4 swamps) and I got destroyed and dropped. If you pick this deck up for a $40 all day event you are gambling that you'll hit a bunch of delver decks, elves, lands, etc. You'll annihilate them (assuming you don't run garbage like Moggcatcher).

[Blastoderm]

3ball is another explosive start card that is a brick later in the game ... I mean any XXXX stompy deck suffers from the same glut of redundant cards and no Brainstorm to fix the problem. Dragon Stompy also contains 8 redundant moon effects, 8 potential grey ogres etc.. I think it's pretty obvious what the pro's and con's of 3ball are. You just have to decide to gamble on your match ups. I played Moon Stompy at Nashville and played against 2 decks that could give a fuck about blood moon (Sneak, and budget Veteran Explorer with like 8 forests and 4 swamps) and I got destroyed and dropped. If you pick this deck up for a $40 all day event you are gambling that you'll hit a bunch of delver decks, elves, lands, etc. You'll annihilate them (assuming you don't run garbage like Moggcatcher).

Or garbage like hero of oxid ridge, pit dragon, raiders, etc.

[nedleeds]

Yeah I think Raiders and Pit Dragon are garbage, Hero has Haste and there are quite a few things with 1 power running around that you can run past ... he's fine. He's also a human for cavern purposes. Why you wouldn't play haste guys at this point is beyond me, who wants to be going into turn 5 or 6 with this deck casting shitty hill giants that can be Revoked.

[wooboy11]

Thanks for the replies, it's about on par with what I had in mind. It's basically a metagame / gameplay preference call.

I got the Catchers and the Hero's, will be testing both packages this weekend, since I was playing werewolves and wasn't so happy with the Miracles matchup (which I happen to come across a lot). I'm pretty much convinced Koth is needed on this deck, alongside Revokers. I'm also enjoying Stone Rain quite a lot. Has anyone tested Avarax? 5 cmc is what's keeping me from it.

Hardest part on building this deck is to assemble a good (or decent) threat package.

[Blastoderm]

Yeah I think Raiders and Pit Dragon are garbage, Hero has Haste and there are quite a few things with 1 power running around that you can run past ... he's fine. He's also a human for cavern purposes. Why you wouldn't play haste guys at this point is beyond me, who wants to be going into turn 5 or 6 with this deck casting shitty hill giants that can be Revoked.

Do you have a list? I'm interested.

I always have these issues in mind when building moon/chalice stompy:

1. How do your creatures do vs Goyf, Batterskull, Jitte?
2. Can you win if your lock pieces aren't effective?
3. Do my creatures suck if I draw them late? (see: taurean mauler)
4. Can I draw something to get out of situation X?
5. Do Liliana and Jace negate all your creatures (which is why I assume you like hasty things)
6. Do I autolose in the late game? (see: rakdos pit dragon, gathan raiders)

While moggcatcher is a turn slower since it doesn't attack, it almost guarantees that you'll win the game if it's not answered immediately. With a normal beater however, if it's answered after a couple swings you're back to where you started. SGC can also be used as removal and to prevent lifegain from bskull or counters on jitte.

So the creatures I came up with in the attempt to answer all these issues were: moggcatcher, SGC, rakka mar, hound of griselbrand.

[nedleeds]

Thanks for the replies, it's about on par with what I had in mind. It's basically a metagame / gameplay preference call.

I got the Catchers and the Hero's, will be testing both packages this weekend, since I was playing werewolves and wasn't so happy with the Miracles matchup (which I happen to come across a lot). I'm pretty much convinced Koth is needed on this deck, alongside Revokers. I'm also enjoying Stone Rain quite a lot. Has anyone tested Avarax? 5 cmc is what's keeping me from it.

Hardest part on building this deck is to assemble a good (or decent) threat package.

I think @ 5 there's Stormbreath Dragon and everything else, can't be Swords, Bolted, Decayed, Evades and eats Planeswlkers for breakfast. Arc Slogger or maybe the aforementioned SGC just worse. If you are running a moon deck with Seething Song then I definitely think SBD is the weapon of choice at 5, as he also turns a mid game Seething Song glut into damage.

[wooboy11]

I think @ 5 there's Stormbreath Dragon and everything else. Arc Slogger or maybe the aforementioned SGC just worse. Also SBD is actually unkillable by 3/4 of the current DTB. If you are running a moon deck with Seething Song then I definitely think SBD is the weapon of choice.

Absolutely agree, although in my country it sits at a hefty 60 bucks. Will wait until it rotates out or something.

Is hasty creatures only there to attack the planeswalkers? If so, doesn't Revoker remedy that?

I've seen your list through your report, and really liked it. I just don't think Purphoros does any work.

[wooboy11]

So I tried out Moggcatcher and Hero today. Gotta say, I loved Moggcatcher, and I didn't quite like Hero. The deck becomes more controlish with Moggcatcher, but it just works well under a chalice @1 (doesn't even need to be turn1). Hero, on the other hand, is awesome against creature light decks, but those decks are usually the ones our hate impacts the most.

Keep in mind I played them both on the same deck and without 3balls (was on SB), so maybe that was the problem. What I REALLY missed, though, was a decent 3 drop threat. I am desperately thinking about Splatter Thug. Has anyone tried him? Slow, can't block, but hey.. better than a 1/5 defender that only flips when you already won with your locks. Also, I'm not using Seething Songs, could that be the source of this issue?

[Nitrospira]

What I REALLY missed, though, was a decent 3 drop threat. I am desperately thinking about Splatter Thug.

That's the problem I'm running into as well. I've done a ton of searches, and I've come up with a few options, all of which seem sub-par to me but here they are anyway

Splatter Thug is ok, being human is nice but not blocking or doing anything the turn it drops is meh
Goblin Assault wins quickly, but again provides no blockers and is useless the turn it comes down. It is largely removal-proof, though
Hammer of Purphoros also wins on its own, but requires you to constantly feed it lands and mana. The global haste is very nice
Grafted Wargear is the last one. It doesn't win on its own, but putting it on pretty much anything wins fast. Especially if that thing flies

On another note, I'm increasingly drawn to Moltensteel Dragon. Flying is good, firebreathing is good, and also being able to feed it your own lives is amazing (plus, the art rocks). An unanswered MsD could end a game in two swings. It's definitely something I'll be testing

[Blastoderm]

your 3 drops should be 8 blood moons, 4 trinisphere
I'd rather play more 4 drops than bad 3 drops.

[wooboy11]

That's the problem I'm running into as well. I've done a ton of searches, and I've come up with a few options, all of which seem sub-par to me but here they are anyway

Splatter Thug is ok, being human is nice but not blocking or doing anything the turn it drops is meh
Goblin Assault wins quickly, but again provides no blockers and is useless the turn it comes down. It is largely removal-proof, though
Hammer of Purphoros also wins on its own, but requires you to constantly feed it lands and mana. The global haste is very nice
Grafted Wargear is the last one. It doesn't win on its own, but putting it on pretty much anything wins fast. Especially if that thing flies

On another note, I'm increasingly drawn to Moltensteel Dragon. Flying is good, firebreathing is good, and also being able to feed it your own lives is amazing (plus, the art rocks). An unanswered MsD could end a game in two swings. It's definitely something I'll be testing

In all sincerity, I think what we need right now is not to figure out a 3 drop, but how to deal with having only 4cmc+ threats, 'cause all the 3 drops are just so... worthless. I'm not sure whether adapting to longer game or playing Seething Songs is the answer... or something else, of course.

I have my decklist pretty much set, leaning towards the Moggcatcher version, 3balless and songless. I'm trying to figure out the last four threat slots, which are taken by Hero atm.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

This deck used to play Sulfur Elemental. Is that not a satisfactory 3-drop? Also, the hellbent version plays Gathan Raiders, with its morph being the 3-drop. When I played this list, Seething Song was great when it was good and terrible when it wasnt. I think 3 is the right number in hellbent version, I've never played the Moggcatcher version.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Blastoderm]

This deck used to play Sulfur Elemental. Is that not a satisfactory 3-drop? Also, the hellbent version plays Gathan Raiders, with its morph being the 3-drop. When I played this list, Seething Song was great when it was good and terrible when it wasnt. I think 3 is the right number in hellbent version, I've never played the Moggcatcher version.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I hope you have fun playing against tarmogoyf and batterskull

[FTW]

I compiled a list of potentially playable 3-drops if people are looking for 3-drops beyond lock pieces.

Did an extensive Gatherer search of every red creature that costs 2R. I dug deep for these looking for some creative ideas. There are way too many garbage Gray Ogres floating around. The only remotely appealing options were:


Arc Mage
Pain Kami
Priest of Urabrask
Earthen Goo
Rage Nimbus
Satyr Nyx-Smith
Sulfur Elemental
Splatter Thug
Kragma Butcher
Hanweir Watchkeep
Taurean Mauler
Viashino Outrider
Imperial Recruiter
Goblin Sharpshooter


Depends on what match ups you are finding hard.

Arc Mage can clear away dorks like SFM, DRS, elves, etc, albeit at a steep cost. Jaya Ballard is probably just better unless you're taking out 2 Elves.

Viashino Outrider is a 4/3 for 2R (with echo). If you need more clocks, that seems like the fastest single-handed clock for 2R without relying on other draws. At least trades with 4/4 germ tokens. Kragma Butcher is similar, trading the echo for needing to attack every turn, but seems awful if opponent has anything decent out. Splatter Thug is probably the best 3/3 (sadly) but lacks that 4th power for the faster clock and to take out X/4s. Earthen Goo can get bigger but is too conditional on you hitting multple red sources or having a Moon effect stick.

Satyr Nyx Smith can make an army quickly if the opponent is locked out for a few turns but absolutely sucks if they can establish any board. Meh.

Rage Nimbus is interesting. If you don't need a clock but want to be able to deal with your opponent's creatures, it blocks and takes out (or trades with) pretty much everything in the format. You can lure dorks (e.g. Thalia, Bob, unflipped Delver, spirit tokens) to suicide into it or force dorks with abilities (e.g. Mom, DRS, Lavamancer) to use them right away. At least on paper I think it would play a non-awful control role.

Watchkeep might be OK. Blocks Goyf often. May flip. Beats Batterskull. Seems pretty conditional.

Sharpshooter seems good at least SB in the Moggcatcher builds.

Sulfur Elemental SB against Death and Taxes and Esperblade?

Taurean Mauler has already been discussed heavily. Some like, some don't.

Imperial Recruiter might just be the best 3-drop though. Given how absolutely terrible red's 2R creatures are (other than Magus and SSG), the best thing may to be either to tutor for a good 4-drop (e.g. Moggcatcher) or tutor for SSG if you have a great 4-drop but no sources to cast it or tutor for Magus if you have no lock piece out. Sadly this is less optimal outside Goblin builds.


Allowing 1RR that opens up not only Jaya Ballard but also:

Mindsparker
Kruin Outlaw


I tried playing Werewolf Stompy with Hanweirs, Kruins and Instigator Gangs (and Imperial Recruiters). I found it really smashed faces sometimes and really sucked other times. It's really conditional on you drawing a 2nd Mountain and having enough lock pieces to prevent opponent from ever casting 2 spells in a turn. I don't know if Red Stompy needs any more conditionality....

Mindsparker seems pretty strong. Better body than Splatter Thug (also 3-power first strike but can block) albeit worse mana cost. Ability sounds pretty amazing against a lot of decks. Potential?

Otherwise, IMO the best 3-drop is a lock piece or a Mountain to cast a 4-drop...

[Blastoderm]

Basically what FTW said. I'd rather have more mana to cast a 4 drop than a 3 drop. Unless that 3 drop is tutoring for moggcatcher and chumping a goyf/batterskull. Our second turn should be used to cast lock pieces. 3rd turn you should have 4 mana to cast a strong creature. Anyways, over in the elves thread Julian got 1st/~150 in a legacy side event at the GP. Finals (6th round)...against dragon stompy! Apparently he played Arc-Slogger, Rakdos Pit Dragon, Stormbreath Dragon, Koth of the Hammer, Gathan Riders. A pretty big mix of stuff. So yea, nice to see dragon stompy putting up a result! :))

[wooboy11]

Basically what FTW said. I'd rather have more mana to cast a 4 drop than a 3 drop. Unless that 3 drop is tutoring for moggcatcher and chumping a goyf/batterskull. Our second turn should be used to cast lock pieces. 3rd turn you should have 4 mana to cast a strong creature. Anyways, over in the elves thread Julian got 1st/~150 in a legacy side event at the GP. Finals (6th round)...against dragon stompy! Apparently he played Arc-Slogger, Rakdos Pit Dragon, Stormbreath Dragon, Koth of the Hammer, Gathan Riders. A pretty big mix of stuff. So yea, nice to see dragon stompy putting up a result! :))

Not sure it was a "result", since from his report, Julian said it was just round 6, not finals... Anyways, DS lost to elves.. I mean....

Back on topic, I would never play Imperial Recruiter. We need impactful cards, not more slowing down. Talking about mountains, how about 21st land?

[Blastoderm]

Not sure it was a "result", since from his report, Julian said it was just round 6, not finals... Anyways, DS lost to elves.. I mean....

Back on topic, I would never play Imperial Recruiter. We need impactful cards, not more slowing down. Talking about mountains, how about 21st land?

Not sure if there was a top8...going in to round 6 he was 5-0 so at least that says something.

[Zupponn]

Don't forget about Gathan Raiders in that 3 drop slot. He's probably the best beater for that mana cost.

Also, Stormbreath seems to be a popular guy these days. Maybe I'll give it a look and see how it plays, possibly with Bonfire of the Damned. I think I have an old list that ran Thundermaw a few pages back. Could be a good place to start.

[wooboy11]

Don't forget about Gathan Raiders in that 3 drop slot. He's probably the best beater for that mana cost.

Also, Stormbreath seems to be a popular guy these days. Maybe I'll give it a look and see how it plays, possibly with Bonfire of the Damned. I think I have an old list that ran Thundermaw a few pages back. Could be a good place to start.

The build I'm running atm wants to keep a few cards in hand, such as Stone Rain and Stingscourger. I don't see the need for Bonfire, there isn't much swarming in the format atm.

As for Stormbreath, yes he must be great. Thundermaw, not so much: if you're gonna spend 5 mana on a threat, it better be resilient.

[LeoCop 90]

Stormbreath dragon cast with cavern of souls is the most resilient threat we have..... can't be countered, survives bolt swords and decay.... the problem is always the same, it costs 5 wich pretty much forces to run seething song.

[chemfy]

Hello, I played dragon stompy on gp paris and this is a small report

Main Deck:
3x Arc-Slogger
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Koth of the Hammer
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Gathan Raiders
1x Umezawa's Jitte

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Blood Moon
3x Trinisphere
4x Chalice of the Void

4x Seething Song
4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain

SideBoard:
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Angel of Despair
3x Pyrokinesis


Main Event

So let's see how well I can remember based on my life total notes.
Match 1: Reanimator
G1: Turn two griselbrand I concede
G2: Turn 1 Tormod's crypt slows him down, he goes with show and tell I show angel and kill him the turn after.
G3: I had tormod's crypt is all I can remember
2-1 (1-0)

Match 2: Esper Miracles??
G1: Koth does work, koth goes ultimate, second koth comes into play
G2: Turn 2 Blood moon he casts lim-duls vault goes 7 life in and finds plains, swamp, vindicate. Dies a turn or two after casting vindicate.
2-0 (2-0)

Match 3: Sneak and Show?? Might be mixing match 4 and 3
G1: I win, cant remember anything
G2: I lose, can't remember anything
G3: He mulligans to 5 and keeps an all 1 casting cost hand, I have turn 1 chalice for 1 he doesn't do much for the rest of the game
2-1 (3-0)

Match 4: UWR Delver?? Might be mixing match 4 and 3
G1: Blood moon does work I win
G2: I go blood moon he fetches a basic plains and casts stoneforge mystic getting sword of fire and ice. I lose
G3: I go turn 2? blood moon he has scalding tarn gets a basic island, doesn't do much for the rest of the game
2-1 (4-0)

Match 5: Belcher
G1: He wins die roll, lot's of goblins I lose
G2: I have turn 1 chalice for 0, he shows a hand with no 0 casting cost spells and gets lots of goblins turn 1, I lose
0-2 (4-1)

Match 6: TES
G1: I go blood moon and chalice for 1, he concedes I only see volcanic island so I have no idea what he is playing.
G2: He casts blind cabal therapy names chalice of the void and hits, I got early pit dragon he goes goblins and wins
G3: Cant remember much but he goes goblins and I lose
1-2 (4-2)

Match 7: Red MUD
G1: I have turn 1 Stormbreath dragon, he gets goblin welder going when he is at low health. I cast arc-slogger to finish the game
G2: After mulligan I have 2x revoker 2x city of traitors and something hand, he goes t1 welder, I go revoker on it, he goes turn 2 grim monolith, I revoker it, he goes t3 metal worker, I can't stop it, he wins turn 4
G3: I keep good hand, can't remember exactly what it was, he attacks turn 2 with blightsteel colossus I lose
1-2 (4-3)

Match 8: Merfolk
G1: True name nemesis, I lose
G2: I get chalice for 2 but then he finds vial. He casts true name and I have 2x gathan raiders so I can keep attacking him until he gets vial to 2 and starts putting in phantasmal images as copies of nemesis, I lose
0-2 (4-4)

DROP

For day 2 side event I added sudden demise over pyrokinesis in the sideboard after losing so many times to goblin tokens.
SideBoard:
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Angel of Despair
3x Sudden Demise


Side Event

Match 1: UWR Delver
G1: Blood moon
G2: Trinisphere, Blood Moon
2-0 (1-0)

Match 2: Jund
G1: Blood moon?
G2: Blood moon?
2-0 (2-0)

Match 3: Cloudpost
G1: Show and tell Primeval titan I lose
G2: Show and Tell Primeval titan, I show angel kill titan and kill him before he can get anything more done
G3: A turn or two before he can hand cast primeval titan I top deck magus of the moon, cast it and he has no basics
2-1 (3-0)

Match 4: BUG Delver? Not sure if it was delver
G1: Blood moon
G2: He has lot's of ways to stop blood moon, after using them on trinisphere, blood moon, phyrexian revoker, I'm finally able to resolve a blood moon and I win
2-0 (4-0)

Match 5: Jund
G1: T1 Blood moon he concedes
G2: I get early Arc-slogger, he has pithing needle for it. I get a second arc-slogger and the board stalls, me with arc-slogger him with tarmogoyfs. Eventually he decays chrome mox which gets tarmogoyfs big enough to defeat arc-slogger. I get pit dragon, on my last turn I top deck mountain, give fliyng to pit dragon and cast seething song pumping it with 5 dealing 16 damage which is exactly enough.
2-0 (5-0)

Match 6: Elves
G1: Blood moon, chalice 1 and chalice 2, arc-slogger I win
G2: I keep a 6 card hand with mountain, simian spirit guide, seething song, arc-slogger, sudden demise. A few turns later no land but a second sudden demise, I use sudden demise with spirit guide to kill a few elves, I find a second mountain, then I use the second sudden demise again for 1 kill a few elves. Few turns later he gets graterhoof I lose
G3: I mulligan to 5, keep hand with 2 mountain can't get to 3 mana until he get's progenitus and I lose
1-2 (5-1)


Deck choice was really good, would play it again, Stormbreath dragon is the worst card in the deck. After making the sudden demise change after main event wouldn't really change anything, except replace stormbreath dragon if I found something I liked..

[wooboy11]

Hello, I played dragon stompy on gp paris and this is a small report

Main Deck:
3x Arc-Slogger
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Koth of the Hammer
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Gathan Raiders
1x Umezawa's Jitte

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Blood Moon
3x Trinisphere
4x Chalice of the Void

4x Seething Song
4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain

SideBoard:
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Angel of Despair
3x Pyrokinesis


Main Event

So let's see how well I can remember based on my life total notes.
Match 1: Reanimator
G1: Turn two griselbrand I concede
G2: Turn 1 Tormod's crypt slows him down, he goes with show and tell I show angel and kill him the turn after.
G3: I had tormod's crypt is all I can remember
2-1 (1-0)

Match 2: Esper Miracles??
G1: Koth does work, koth goes ultimate, second koth comes into play
G2: Turn 2 Blood moon he casts lim-duls vault goes 7 life in and finds plains, swamp, vindicate. Dies a turn or two after casting vindicate.
2-0 (2-0)

Match 3: Sneak and Show?? Might be mixing match 4 and 3
G1: I win, cant remember anything
G2: I lose, can't remember anything
G3: He mulligans to 5 and keeps an all 1 casting cost hand, I have turn 1 chalice for 1 he doesn't do much for the rest of the game
2-1 (3-0)

Match 4: UWR Delver?? Might be mixing match 4 and 3
G1: Blood moon does work I win
G2: I go blood moon he fetches a basic plains and casts stoneforge mystic getting sword of fire and ice. I lose
G3: I go turn 2? blood moon he has scalding tarn gets a basic island, doesn't do much for the rest of the game
2-1 (4-0)

Match 5: Belcher
G1: He wins die roll, lot's of goblins I lose
G2: I have turn 1 chalice for 0, he shows a hand with no 0 casting cost spells and gets lots of goblins turn 1, I lose
0-2 (4-1)

Match 6: TES
G1: I go blood moon and chalice for 1, he concedes I only see volcanic island so I have no idea what he is playing.
G2: He casts blind cabal therapy names chalice of the void and hits, I got early pit dragon he goes goblins and wins
G3: Cant remember much but he goes goblins and I lose
1-2 (4-2)

Match 7: Red MUD
G1: I have turn 1 Stormbreath dragon, he gets goblin welder going when he is at low health. I cast arc-slogger to finish the game
G2: After mulligan I have 2x revoker 2x city of traitors and something hand, he goes t1 welder, I go revoker on it, he goes turn 2 grim monolith, I revoker it, he goes t3 metal worker, I can't stop it, he wins turn 4
G3: I keep good hand, can't remember exactly what it was, he attacks turn 2 with blightsteel colossus I lose
1-2 (4-3)

Match 8: Merfolk
G1: True name nemesis, I lose
G2: I get chalice for 2 but then he finds vial. He casts true name and I have 2x gathan raiders so I can keep attacking him until he gets vial to 2 and starts putting in phantasmal images as copies of nemesis, I lose
0-2 (4-4)

DROP

For day 2 side event I added sudden demise over pyrokinesis in the sideboard after losing so many times to goblin tokens.
SideBoard:
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Angel of Despair
3x Sudden Demise


Side Event

Match 1: UWR Delver
G1: Blood moon
G2: Trinisphere, Blood Moon
2-0 (1-0)

Match 2: Jund
G1: Blood moon?
G2: Blood moon?
2-0 (2-0)

Match 3: Cloudpost
G1: Show and tell Primeval titan I lose
G2: Show and Tell Primeval titan, I show angel kill titan and kill him before he can get anything more done
G3: A turn or two before he can hand cast primeval titan I top deck magus of the moon, cast it and he has no basics
2-1 (3-0)

Match 4: BUG Delver? Not sure if it was delver
G1: Blood moon
G2: He has lot's of ways to stop blood moon, after using them on trinisphere, blood moon, phyrexian revoker, I'm finally able to resolve a blood moon and I win
2-0 (4-0)

Match 5: Jund
G1: T1 Blood moon he concedes
G2: I get early Arc-slogger, he has pithing needle for it. I get a second arc-slogger and the board stalls, me with arc-slogger him with tarmogoyfs. Eventually he decays chrome mox which gets tarmogoyfs big enough to defeat arc-slogger. I get pit dragon, on my last turn I top deck mountain, give fliyng to pit dragon and cast seething song pumping it with 5 dealing 16 damage which is exactly enough.
2-0 (5-0)

Match 6: Elves
G1: Blood moon, chalice 1 and chalice 2, arc-slogger I win
G2: I keep a 6 card hand with mountain, simian spirit guide, seething song, arc-slogger, sudden demise. A few turns later no land but a second sudden demise, I use sudden demise with spirit guide to kill a few elves, I find a second mountain, then I use the second sudden demise again for 1 kill a few elves. Few turns later he gets graterhoof I lose
G3: I mulligan to 5, keep hand with 2 mountain can't get to 3 mana until he get's progenitus and I lose
1-2 (5-1)


Deck choice was really good, would play it again, Stormbreath dragon is the worst card in the deck. After making the sudden demise change after main event wouldn't really change anything, except replace stormbreath dragon if I found something I liked..

So, you're THAT guy...

[sderenatore]

Hello everyone, first time writing about Dragon Stompy but a lot of effort and testing put in it.
I came up with a very solid list that is a big hoser to most Tier 1 and 2 of the format. Even though the skeleton of the deck is merely a goblin stompy, I worked to avoid as much as possible the "all in" approach and I headed to a more stable and controllish build, with some sort of manipulation. Here's the list with explanations:

Lands [19]:
11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Creatures [27]:
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Colos Yearling

Spells [14]:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Sudden Demise

Sideboard [15]:
3 Trinisphere
3 Anarchy
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Sudden Demise

No Trinisphere in the maindeck! That's right! I don't think it's as powerful as other cards we have maindeck. It is an autowin against Combo and some other blue decks, BUT it's not a threat per se hence stealing space to other things that could actually make us win!
Yes Imperial Recruiter! I was talking about a more controllish and STABLE version: here's your "how". Thanks to him you can tutor any single creature in the deck, also virtually upping your Blood Moon counter to 12. One of the biggest issues this card is able to solve (more than tutoring Moggcatcher for the win or other silver bullets) is fixing your mana. Do you remember the times when Dragon Stompy loses to himself because you didn't have that second red mana? well, get a Simian Spirit Guide and your day will get better. It may seem a waste, but it won me several games.
Colos Yearling, Do you like this card? I must say I learned to love him. It's my secret tech to win stalls, dropping an unblockable (8 moon effects + 4 tutors) critter who can get big. It looks bad and I considered already other possibilities like Dragon Egg, Basalt Gargoyle, Granite Gargoyle, Dragon Whelp, Furnace Whelp, Flame-Wreathed Phoenix, Fledgling Dragon, Lightning Dragon and so on. While among the 3-drops Colos is probably the best, it is debatable wether something like Furnace Whelp or Lightning Dragon could work better but, from my experience on the field, I can say that that one single mana does make a difference.
Sideboard and some maindeck choices (Sudden Demise) depend on my local meta, but I am open to any further explanation.
If you are interested I'll post matchups analysis later!

[GoblinSettler]

Hello everyone, first time writing about Dragon Stompy but a lot of effort and testing put in it.
I came up with a very solid list that is a big hoser to most Tier 1 and 2 of the format. Even though the skeleton of the deck is merely a goblin stompy, I worked to avoid as much as possible the "all in" approach and I headed to a more stable and controllish build, with some sort of manipulation. Here's the list with explanations:

Lands [19]:
11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Creatures [27]:
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Colos Yearling

Spells [14]:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Sudden Demise

Sideboard [15]:
3 Trinisphere
3 Anarchy
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Sudden Demise

No Trinisphere in the maindeck! That's right! I don't think it's as powerful as other cards we have maindeck. It is an autowin against Combo and some other blue decks, BUT it's not a threat per se hence stealing space to other things that could actually make us win!
Yes Imperial Recruiter! I was talking about a more controllish and STABLE version: here's your "how". Thanks to him you can tutor any single creature in the deck, also virtually upping your Blood Moon counter to 12. One of the biggest issues this card is able to solve (more than tutoring Moggcatcher for the win or other silver bullets) is fixing your mana. Do you remember the times when Dragon Stompy loses to himself because you didn't have that second red mana? well, get a Simian Spirit Guide and your day will get better. It may seem a waste, but it won me several games.
Colos Yearling, Do you like this card? I must say I learned to love him. It's my secret tech to win stalls, dropping an unblockable (8 moon effects + 4 tutors) critter who can get big. It looks bad and I considered already other possibilities like Dragon Egg, Basalt Gargoyle, Granite Gargoyle, Dragon Whelp, Furnace Whelp, Flame-Wreathed Phoenix, Fledgling Dragon, Lightning Dragon and so on. While among the 3-drops Colos is probably the best, it is debatable wether something like Furnace Whelp or Lightning Dragon could work better but, from my experience on the field, I can say that that one single mana does make a difference.
Sideboard and some maindeck choices (Sudden Demise) depend on my local meta, but I am open to any further explanation.
If you are interested I'll post matchups analysis later!

If you are spending 2R for mountainwalk, did you consider Goblin King? It can be fetched with Moggcatcher and would give most of the team mountainwalk, too.

[Blastoderm]

Why the Anarchy? Doesn't Sudden Demise destroy death and taxes? Or is there white stax in your meta? lol

[Zorker]

nice list "sderenatore", if you had to put the sphere mb what woudl you cut?.

Anyone think tha cavern of souls are ok in a mothematic type deck

[sderenatore]

nice list "sderenatore", if you had to put the sphere mb what woudl you cut?.

Anyone think tha cavern of souls are ok in a mothematic type deck

Well it's hard to say, cause I honestly think they are good only against combo and decks with a lot of permission. However, if your facing many of these decks i would cut:
-2 Sudden Demise and move the to sideboard
-1 Siege-gang Commander
-1 Phyrexian Revoker depending on your meta (many delver decks) you could cut 2 revokers and leave the 2 commanders in the list

I personally don't feel the need of cavern of souls, also remember that the second red mana (in some cases one single red mana) is often vital and you don't want to find yourself regretting not having a mountain cause you don't have goblins or humans in hand, so it's doable but risky and not synergic with your 8 Blood moon :)

[Zorker]

Thanks for clearing that up, i asked because most of my meta is filled with control or pseudo control(stoneblade) and most of the time is frustrating not resolving a spell.
Trinisphere and cos were a band aid for that problem, i'm going to playtest this list with a 61st card Koth of the hammer he's very nice XD.




Ps: i'll play this because i have almost all the cards the notable exception: Goblin settler( whe i ask about this card to dealers i got a blank stare), and the imperial recruiter( too expensive)

[grixx]

People say there aren't any good 3drops but Goblin Matron is a three drop, but that's only if you're running the goblin build.

What if, to increase consistency, we play imperial recruiter and goblin matron? It becomes decent if you're running the silver bullet creatures (Scrapper, Sharpshooter, etc.)

Anyway, a thought:

Commit to the G

12 Mnt
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Mood
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Moggcatcher
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Goblin Settler
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Goblin Matron

I like the idea of being able to "draw cards" with the recruiter and matron. Sometimes you throw out a 3sphere or moon on turn 1 and your opponent stumbles and then you awkwardly sit there until you get til 4 mana and they sometimes catch up. Creatures have also gotten much better. A 5/5 groundpounder for 3 isn't enough anymore and racing them with a dragon may not be enough either.

My current list is this but
-4 recruiter
-2 goblin matron
+4 koth
+2 rakka mar

I used to not be so impressed with goblin settler in the goblins build, but it is so backbreaking for an opponent with trinisphere in play. Especially since lands and jund lands have become popular it's nice to have something for their singleton basic forest.

[Zupponn]

Why the Anarchy? Doesn't Sudden Demise destroy death and taxes? Or is there white stax in your meta? lol

I always have Anarchy for the random Enchantress decks around. The matchup is slightly better now that we're using Moggcatcher and SGC, but I would still have them in the sideboard.

[Jelmerz77]

I've been toying arround arround with the Goblin Stompy build for about 6 months now.
I took it to a 51 men Legacy event today. Went 5-0-1 in swiss.
And lost in the semi's to Pox (No picknick)

I played the list below:

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Trinisphere
3 Flametongue Kavu
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
2 Rakka Mar
3 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Blood Moon
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Anarchy

I will do a quick write up of the the games. I have to do it out of the top of my head since I didn't make any notes.


Round 1 Storm:

G1:
Lose the die roll and get probed turn 1. I resolve the hated the turns thereafter and opponent scoops.

G2:
Get probed and Duressed and die to a tendrils a few turns later.

G3:
3Ball and Chalice do their job and Moggcatchers invites Kiki Jiki, Goblin Settler and Siege-Gang Commander to the party.

(1-0)


Round 2 RUG:

G1:
Thinking I'm playing storm again, I resolve Trinisphere, Magus and Chalice. Opponent scoops.

G2:
Boarded for storm, so a turn 1 Nimble Mongoose surprises me a little. I resolve a turn 2 Chalice at 1. I get bolted in response. Get pooked a little by the mongoose.
After resolving Magus and Moggcatcher my opponent desides he has enough. scoop.

(2-0)


Round 3 Elves:

G1: Have no clue what I play against, my opponent fetches a Bayou with a foothills. so rule number 1 kicks in "Resolve turn 1 bloodmoon" Ends up being elves. Finds his first basic forest turn 5 or 6 when its already to late.... dies to the hordes....

G2: He plays a few elves, I play a revoker on DRS and and end up with resolving an Ensaring Bridge. After resolving a Moggcatcher and shooting some elves with a Siege-Gang opponent scoops.

(3-0)

Round 4: Show and Sneak

G1: I resolve a turn 1 magus and followed by a turn 2 and turn 3 Magus of the Moon.... Yeah good old fashioned Magus beat down.... Opponent finds no gas and dies quickly.

G2: opponent casts a turn 2 Show and Tell, opponent drops Griselbrand, I drop Ensnaring Bridge. Opponent draws 7. but brigde does what it's supposed to do. Resolve Rakka Mar and start making tokens. then I make the stupid misstake of attacking too soon. Memo to self; Griselbrand has lifelink. Opponent blocks 2 tokens with a previously S&T Emrakul and a Griselbrand gaining 7 lives and drawing 7 cards again. DOH! Don't attack again. I resolve a Moggcatcher after that. Opponent desides to draw 7 again going done to 3 and crack a fetch. I search for a Siege-Gang and throw a goblin to his head.

(4-0)

Round 5: Thopter Foundry

G1: opponent counters my Bloodmoon and Plows the Magus but I resolve a Moggcatcher and my opponent casts 3 foundries in a row and starts poking me with 2 Thopters. since my opponents is light on lands (3) I deside to search for a Settler and a Kiki Jiki the turn after that and go after the manabase first. Siege-Gang finishes the Thopters first then the opponent.

G2: I resolve a Trinispere turn 1 or 2 and afterwards draw about 7 or 8 lands and a Chrome mox. Die to a Batterskull wearing a Jitte...

G3: Opponents mulls to 5 and I resolve a turn 1 Bloodmoon. Opponent has an Island. I have a Settler... opponent never recovers and I start beating with Settler and Revoker...
That was enough.

(5-0)

Round 6: Pox

ID, this is the same guy I lose to in the semi.

(5-0-1) get the nr 1 seed in the top 8 :-)

Top 8:

Quarter final: Belcher.

G1: Since I have top seed I can deside who plays first I know my opponent plays Belcher. So he is not playing first. I end up with a hand that has a turn 1 chalice at 1 and chalice at 0. After this I assemble a SoFaI on a critter and start beating.

G2: opponent mulls and mulls again. and can cast a turn 1 Charbelcher but no way to activate it. I have a turn 1 Phyrexian Revoker on Charbelcher. A turn 2 SoFaI finishes the job fairly quick.

(6-0-1)


Semi: Pox

G1: Mull to 5 and get hoosed by discard and Liliana. Get killed by a couple of bloodghast... guess this is the hopeless feeling my opponents had the previous rounds....

G2: I resolve a Turn 1 3Ball and a turn 2 Chalice at 1. then I stumble and a turn 3 Lilliana is the beginning of the end.... Bloodghasts finish the job again. Oh well I had a good run. It was fun.

Overal I like the deck as it is right now. Might want to find room for the 4th Trinisphere
But this is a fun meta game call. I liked it a lot.


Cheers

[Zupponn]

Good work there!

Just was wondering though, how were the FTKs?

[Jelmerz77]

Good work there!

Just was wondering though, how were the FTKs?

Exacty what you would expect of a utility creature like this. Never the MVP, sometimes the first to board out sometimes very useful.
Copying them if Kiki is not funny when you're at the opposing side of the table.
I am overal very happy with them in the deck, the only thing you can talk about is the number to include I guess.
I could see myself going down 1 or 2 copies if Miracles shows up in larger numbers.
So swapping them for main deck Koth of the Hammer would be good then I guess.
Koth would also help to a resolved Liliana of the Veil. Which is very hard for this deck to beat.

cheers,

Jelmer

[Zupponn]

That's been my experience with them as well, although they're great vs dredge as well. Target itself? lol

[k0mmand3rka7]

Hey guys,
So I am returning to playtesting werewolf stompy after going on a big MUD kick. I am taking this as a serious consideration for SCG LA. I did some playtesting against Jund, Tinfins, Sneak and Show, and Miracles, and I liked what I saw. Chandra, Pyromaster made it into my list and I find that card to be incredibly powerful. Stompy has always lacked CA and this really did it. I started off with Kabelis' list and this is what I got. I like the idea of dropping the Magma Jet for Sudden Demise to hose DnT and also be able to take down clutch things like goblin lackey. I am interested in playing the goblin build as well. One of the problems I foresee is the awkwardness of cavern of souls calls. Is this not the case? Any feedback is appreciated. Also thinking of including 4 x manic vandal in the board because he works on cavern of souls on human, and destroys the ever so popular stoneforge mystic targets.

4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 cavern of souls
8 mountain

4 hanweir watchkeep
3 instigator gang
4 simian spirit guide
1 rakka mar
2 flametongue kavu
4 magus of the moon

2 koth of the hammer
1 chandra, pyromaster

4 chrome mox
3 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
4 blood moon
2 magma jet
2 stone rain

[Nitrospira]

One of the problems I foresee is the awkwardness of cavern of souls calls. Is this not the case?

What do you mean by "calls"? If you mean naming a creature type, I've always been happy to name human. Giving wincons and magi protection from counterspells is one of this deck's greatest strengths

[k0mmand3rka7]

What do you mean by "calls"? If you mean naming a creature type, I've always been happy to name human. Giving wincons and magi protection from counterspells is one of this deck's greatest strengths
Exactly. In werewolf stompy human trumps all. But in the goblin version, you want human for magus of the moon and moggcatcher, and goblin for everything else. Just seems like it could bring up some awkward situations that's all.

[Jelmerz77]

Exactly. In werewolf stompy human trumps all. But in the goblin version, you want human for magus of the moon and moggcatcher, and goblin for everything else. Just seems like it could bring up some awkward situations that's all.

I doubt that I would play Cavern of Souls in a deck that tries to punish decks with a non basic manabase.
Sure a guaranteed resolve of a magus of the moon is nice, but not having access to red mana doesn't look like something the Goblin build can handle.

[Zupponn]

I would never play less than 10 mountains in this deck. Usually I play 11.

[FTW]

Hey guys,
So I am returning to playtesting werewolf stompy after going on a big MUD kick.

I get that you're already pretty heavy on 4-drops, but why only 3 WINstigator Gang? The "Win" is capitalized for a reason.

[wooboy11]

I doubt that I would play Cavern of Souls in a deck that tries to punish decks with a non basic manabase.
Sure a guaranteed resolve of a magus of the moon is nice, but not having access to red mana doesn't look like something the Goblin build can handle.

Besides, I don't know see this deck running without at least 2 Koths. Granted my meta is full of Miracles, and Koth is basically the only thing we can do.

[Entromancer]

I have a new and exciting take on Dragon Stompy. Just homebrewing around.

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Hound of Griselbrand
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Gathan Raiders
4 Zirilan of the Claw
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Dragon Tyrant
1 Nicol Bolas

4 Trinisphere

4 Seething Song
3 Blazing Shoal
2 Reforge the Soul

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain

SB:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
3 Anarchy
4 Phyrexian Revoker

Shoal, Raiders, Mox are all outs to any dragons that end up in the hand.

[Zupponn]

If you're gonna run dragons like that, you might as well run Utvara Hellkites for the extra dude it leaves behind.

[k0mmand3rka7]

Alright guys, I have been playtesting the goblin versions, and it is fun as hell. Been getting tons of goblin settler/ kiki-jiki, mirror breaker wins. I am heading to LA tomorrow for SCG and this is what I think I am taking as far as the list. The only changes that I can possibly think of is maybe back up to 4 cavern of souls, and maybe -1 koth of the hammer for a purphoros, god of the forge or chandra, pyromaster. Another thought I am having is the ensnaring bridge and confusion in the ranks debate. Also, what are people thoughts on the ratchet bombs? Have they been good for you? I played a very similiar list last weekend and did pretty well. I know now that I have to keep a blood moon hand against DnT and Goblins. This manabase is very fragile to wasteland/ Rishadan port. Let me know what you think, and thanks for any input.

3 cavern of souls
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
10 mountain

4 simian spirit guide
4 moggcatcher
4 magus of the moon
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 goblin settler
1 kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 siege-gang commander
2 boartusk liege

2 sudden demise
3 chrome mox
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
4 blood moon
3 koth of the hammer

SB
4 leyline of the void
2 confusion in the ranks
1 stingscourger
2 anarchy
1 batterskull
2 ratchet bomb
2 tuktuk scrapper
1 goblin sharpshooter

[k0mmand3rka7]

Hey guys I failed you. Sorry. Punted my round 9 game which would have gotten me top 16 at SCG LA with Goblin Stompy yesterday. Went 6-3 shoulda been 7-2. I'll post a report later and you guys can tell me what you think. placed 45 out of almost 400 players.

[k0mmand3rka7]

So hear it goes SCG LA tournament report. 6-3 after punting round 9 (you'll hear how bad it was)

The list
20 lands
9 mountain
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
3 cavern of souls

23 creatures
4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
4 moggcatcher
2 tuktuk scrapper
2 siege-gang commander
1 murderous redcap
1 goblin settler
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1 boartusk liege
3 purphoros, god of the forge

17 spells
4 chrome mox
3 trinisphere
4 blood moon
4 chalice of the void
2 sudden demise

Sideboard
1 anarchy
1 goblin sharpshooter
3 ensnaring bridge
3 confusion in the ranks
2 phyrexian revoker
2 pyrokinesis


Round 1: American Control
Guy gitax probes me "what is going on?" I land purphoros in the final game, he scoffs. I then grab siege-gang commander with moggcatcher to do 8 damage from triggers.
1-0

Round 2: ANT
This guy was really cool, his voice was fading from all the yelling both days but he was totally cool and chatted it up. Best line of the day "gitaxian probe….what the %^& is going on!?" I heard this line from a couple players.
Game 1: I get some chalice of the void action happening and goblin settler/ kiki-jiki, mirror breaker his lands keeping him off of black the whole game.
Game 2: He goes off just before me getting the killing blow.
Game 3: Trinisphere and Phyrexian revoker on lion's eye diamond. I get there with the phyrexian revoker and magus of the moon beats.
2-0

Round 3: American control
Not much to say in these games. I got a sweet sudden demise in game 2 after being mana starved against double delver of secrets and game 3 he drew the nut, he even admitted. Regardless 1 more land and I was catching moggs.
2-1

Round 4: American Control (Jesus are there enough of these going around?)
I get there with a magus of the moon being pumped by purphoros, god of the forge 3 times a turn.
3-1

Round 5: Sneak and Show
Game 1: I mull to like 4 but get a turn one blood moon. Opponent "Thanks for the red source bro" plays Island and t2 Show and tells an emrakul, the aeon's torn.
Game 2: Opponent casts show and tell. He reveals Emrakul, the aeon's torn, and I reveal confusion in the ranks. After a judge call and a crowd of viewers I get Emrakul, the aeon’s torn and kill him.
Game 3: I figured after game 2 he would side out show and tell. I was correct. He is 1 land short of through the breach. I phyrexian revoker lotus petal to buy me more turns to dig for an ensnaring bridge. He rips sneak attack and a sol land off the top and destroys my board with emrakul, aeon’s torn. I get my lands back up and cast ensnaring bridge but he has the spell pierce. I asked him about the phyrexian revoker call. He reveals his hand and showed me through the breach and said I made the right play.
3-2

Round 6: Missing opponent
Figured he was too scared of boartusk liege
4-2

Round 7: Sneak and Show (AKA oh go here we go again)
Game 1: I have purphoros, god of the forge and tuktuk scrapper in play. He casts show and tell revealing emrakul, aeon’s torn and I reveal boartusk liege making purphoros, god of the forge active and taking his health to 12. I am at 14 this looks bad. I swing with the team and emrakul, the aeon’s torn blocks purphoros, god of the forge. Get him to 7. I play murderous redcap trigger purphoros, god of the forge he’s at 3. He swings with emrakul, the aeon’s torn. I sac everything but chalice for 1 and purphoros, god of the forge. Murderous redcap persis triggers and triggers purphoros, god of the forge for 3 damage being lethal in the attack step. Close
Game 2: Opponent casts show and tell. He reveals griselbrand and I confusion in the ranks. Another judge call and some laughs and I get griselbrand. I play chalice of the void to get my phyrexian revoker back and the 2 get there.
5-2

Round 8: BUG Delver
Game 1: Can’t fight the 2 deathrite shaman and 2 delver of secrets
Game 2: Turn 1 blood moon. My opponent makes me play it out to see cards.
Game 3: I resolve a chalice of the void on 1 and a moggcatcher. I get murderous redcap to kill dark confidant and prevent a lilliana of the veil from doing anything.
6-2

Round 9: Belcher
Before the match even starts he calls a judge and asks for oracle text on confusion in the ranks and trinisphere.
Game 1: I mulligan and play a chalice of the void on 0. He casts land grant and gets his taiga. I play a goblin settler the next turn blowing up his land and he scoops.
Game 2: I mull to 4 but get turn 2 trinisphere so I keep. He gets 14 goblins on the first turn.
Game 3: He gets T1 goblin charbelcher. He has a taiga and chrome mox in play and a rit in hand. I draw ratchet bomb and play it because I don’t think I have third mana for the trinpshere in my hand. I play it and blow up his chrome mox and then saw the chrome mox behind the kiki-jiki, mirror breaker in my hand that I had forgotten about. If I had cast that then the game was mine. He then kept thanking me for the 50 bucks and told me I had plenty of time on the way home to PHX to think about how bad I misplayed. (He also kept telling all the viewers between g1 and 2 how big of a pile my deck was) Fun way to end the day.
6-3

Overall, I think the deck is competitive and no one knows what you have. I had cabal therapy casts on me and he called a card cuz he thought maybe there was a possibility it might be in my deck. That can give an edge. Purphoros, god of the forge is awesome vs planeswalkers and sudden demise is an mvp. Thanks for reading. Let’s make goblin stompy lists super tight!

[wooboy11]

@k0mmand3rka7

Congrats on your finish! As for the last player, he was playing Belcher, don't mind how they act: they're usually frustrated magic players.

[k0mmand3rka7]

@k0mmand3rka7

As for the last player, he was playing Belcher, don't mind how they act: they're usually frustrated magic players.

This is gold, thanks. Made me laugh when I woke up.

[Blastoderm]

Exacty what you would expect of a utility creature like this. Never the MVP, sometimes the first to board out sometimes very useful.
Copying them if Kiki is not funny when you're at the opposing side of the table.
I am overal very happy with them in the deck, the only thing you can talk about is the number to include I guess.
I could see myself going down 1 or 2 copies if Miracles shows up in larger numbers.
So swapping them for main deck Koth of the Hammer would be good then I guess.
Koth would also help to a resolved Liliana of the Veil. Which is very hard for this deck to beat.

cheers,

Jelmer

Koth is also great against Jace. Hound of Griselbrand I used to play when Lili was everywhere (half my meta was jund/bug so he was amazing).

[Blastoderm]

@k0mmand3rka7

Congrats on your finish! As for the last player, he was playing Belcher, don't mind how they act: they're usually frustrated magic players.

Maybe he was frustrated because he was knew to Belcher? I play Belcher myself and the two things you have to learn when playing the deck are:

When to mulligan.
Not to be frustrated, accept your losses. Maybe he was just hungry and forgot his bottle at home.

That being said, congrats! Look forward to more reports soon!

[Zupponn]

It's cool to see Purphoros in Legacy, although I would probably never run him myself. Good work on the decent record though!

[Howishotgun]

I decided i should go come back to this deck and try out a new list. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


4 Ancient Tombs
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountains

4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Magus of the Moon
3 Kruin Outlaw
3 Instigator Gang
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 LodeStone Golem

3 Magma Jet
4 Blood Moon
2 Koth of the Hammer
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of War and Peace


3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Mindsparker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Shattering Spree
1 Sulfur Elemental

[Zupponn]

I would definitely cut 2 equipment for the other 2 Magus of the Moons.

[Blastoderm]

Maybe sudden shock instead of magma jet?

[adrieng]

Is anyone playing dragon stompy over there ?
Everyone has shift to painter ?
I have just started playtesting the deck and it seems to be not so bad.
I am playing a version with Zirilan of the claw which is quite good.
I am liking koth and hound of griselbrand ; is there something better than hound against goyf/TNN/liliana ?
Maybe some moggcatcher but it doesn't protect directly koth what I have found to be annoying dies to bolt/punishing fire/liliana.
My side is quite random at the moment. Balefire dragon might be a two or three off, but I can sometimes hardcast it and
it is GG against tempo decks wrath each turn.
I don't like trinisphere.

11 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon

4 Zirilan of the Claw
4 Balefire Dragon
1 Nicol Bolas

4 Hound of Griselbrand
4 Koth of the Hammer

SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Null Rod
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Pyrokinesis


EDIT : I saw fortune thief in sb of one dragon stompy is it good enough ? It looks decent against BGx.decks and merfolk but don't know.

[litenkatt]

This deck is extremley interesting. Blood moon turn 1/2 wins against so many decks really if u think about it.

I feel like the problems with this deck is (have not tried it though):

Early threats like confidant, delver, tarmogoyf etc. How do we deal with these?

Counterspells and discard heavy decks also seems problematic. If we dont manage to resolve a bloodmoon or chalice right away, we're screwed.

I really like the moggcatcher idea. It solves some problems like fetching redcap to kill confidants, delvers etc

Against combo decks I feel like we have a decent matchup against almost every (except sneakshow i guess). Trinisphere and chalice are sweet-o

Anyways I feel like theres still a lot to explore here and Im gonna try some different builds

[Zupponn]

I can answer a few questions here...

Is anyone playing dragon stompy over there ?
There's a handful of us still around.

Everyone has shift to painter ?
Not everyone. They are 2 different decks that win in different ways, so they will both always be relevant, no matter how impactful they are to the metagame.

I don't like trinisphere.
It's a love/hate relationship for most Dragon Stompy players. It can give you free wins, but is a terrible topdeck later in the game.

I saw fortune thief in sb of one dragon stompy is it good enough ? It looks decent against BGx.decks and merfolk but don't know.
Fortune Thief is best in metas where there are a lot of people playing aggro decks with little or limited removal. A surprise morph can blow out some opponents. It's probably best with Gathan Raiders so that you can bluff it later on as well.



And number two...


This deck is extremley interesting. Blood moon turn 1/2 wins against so many decks really if u think about it.
This is the main reason to play this deck IMO.

Early threats like confidant, delver, tarmogoyf etc. How do we deal with these?
Hopefully either land a lock piece so they can't play them. Otherwise, Moggcatcher into Siege-Gang Commander can usually beat out all three of those with ease.

Counterspells and discard heavy decks also seems problematic. If we dont manage to resolve a bloodmoon or chalice right away, we're screwed.
Usually you can sneak something through their defenses. Otherwise, wouldn't this be true for all non-blue decks?

I really like the moggcatcher idea. It solves some problems like fetching redcap to kill confidants, delvers etc
He is the real deal.

Against combo decks I feel like we have a decent matchup against almost every (except sneakshow i guess). Trinisphere and chalice are sweet-o
You are correct here. Many times, Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon can screw them over pretty nicely as well.

Anyways I feel like theres still a lot to explore here and Im gonna try some different builds
Never stop experimenting. No deck is perfect.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Last night was weekly Legacy. Out of 17 players, 5 were on Miracles... :rolleyes:
Of 5 rounds (4, then top 8) I got paired up against Miracles 3 times, winning 1 and losing 2.

What has been everyone's experience in that matchup? Which builds have been most effective? What individual cards give them a hard time?

From my experience, Koth of the Hammer is difficult for them to handle. I also had very good fortune when I destroyed both basic Plains with Stone Rain, permanently keepin them off :w:. I believe Stormbreath Dragon is very powerful against them but have not had a chance to test how effective, or how many would be optimal...

I know Phyrexian Revoker on Top is killer against them, but last night they always seemed to have an answer. :mad:

[Sleight]

What do you guys think about eidolon of the great revel in this list? I've been testing it a bit in replace of trinisphere and like it most the time. It ends up benefitting me a lot, unless I already have a CotV out.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Zupponn]

What do you guys think about eidolon of the great revel in this list? I've been testing it a bit in replace of trinisphere and like it most the time. It ends up benefitting me a lot, unless I already have a CotV out.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Most likely, it's probably not worth it. I know that many people would love to see Trinisphere dropped from the deck, but IMO it wins too many games to warrant being cut. The other thing that makes me wary of the Eidolon is its RR mana cost, which is fairly rough with our mana base. The ability also says "3 or less" rather than "less than 3" so all your Chalices, Trinispheres, and Moons shock you, as well as anything else you're running with a low cost.

On the upside, he does have a 2/2 body attached and does work under a Trinisphere, which makes casting a 3 mana Brainstorm that shocks you especially brutal.

My biggest fear would be dropping this and then watching my opponent play a Goyf and then having to try to catch up, possibly taking large amounts of damage from both the Eidolon and Tombs.

[GoblinZ]

Is this deck still available for legacy? I recently found some lists from Japanese website and I am not sure if this could be considered as dragon stompy, but it seems interesting.

http://amclegacy.sakura.ne.jp/AMC_144.html

[OCPunisher]

Is this deck still available for legacy? I recently found some lists from Japanese website and I am not sure if this could be considered as dragon stompy, but it seems interesting.

http://amclegacy.sakura.ne.jp/AMC_144.html

Interesting list...kind of a hybrid between Dragon Stompy and MUD. Wonder why the pilot chose to put the Trinispheres in the board.

[GoblinZ]

Interesting list...kind of a hybrid between Dragon Stompy and MUD. Wonder why the pilot chose to put the Trinispheres in the board.

Based on the result of their other tournament, it seems there are a lot of SnT in their meta, so I guess maybe the pilot think trinisphere does little against SnT while chalice at least can shut down their cantrip?

[Zupponn]

The list seems incredibly greedy with 8 5CMC dragons and 8 6CMC Titans/Wurms.

But it got me thinking...

How about some "Dragon" Stompy?

4x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Thundermaw Hellkite
4x Scourge of Valkas
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Fledgling Dragon

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
4x Seething Song
4x Chrome Mox
2x Trinisphere

8x Mountain
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb

:D

[k0mmand3rka7]

It looks like you are just trying to jam cool dragons into a deck. What does Scourge of Valkas bring to the table? If I am resolving a Thundermaw Hellkite, I am probably winning anyway. If he is being used as removal wouldn't something along the lines of Sudden Demise or Cave In be better since nothing has a toughness of 2? Also, since all but 4 of the cards are permanents, how are you going to get threshold on the Fledgling Dragon? If your median curve for threats is going to be 5 it may be beneficial to add a couple more lands in place of those. Also, not running Magus of the moon seems like it's something that we don't want to be doing. I'm all about dragons, let's just stream line it a bit.

[Zupponn]

It looks like you are just trying to jam cool dragons into a deck.
That's exactly what I was doing. It was a silly idea that I figured would be terrible, but might get a chuckle out of a couple people.


What does Scourge of Valkas bring to the table? If I am resolving a Thundermaw Hellkite, I am probably winning anyway.
Not if they have a Batterskull on the board you aren't. Or any removal for that matter.


If he is being used as removal wouldn't something along the lines of Sudden Demise or Cave In be better since nothing has a toughness of 2?
Possibly. Scourge is probably bad, but I was hoping he could be like a repeating FTK that gets better and better as the game goes on.


Also, since all but 4 of the cards are permanents, how are you going to get threshold on the Fledgling Dragon?
Abrupt Decay and Wasteland help quite a bit. He's meant to be a late game threat sort of like a Tombstalker.


If your median curve for threats is going to be 5 it may be beneficial to add a couple more lands in place of those.
What, is 28 mana sources and Seething Song not enough?


Also, not running Magus of the moon seems like it's something that we don't want to be doing. I'm all about dragons, let's just stream line it a bit.
Not having Magus probably kills this deck half the time, but there is something to be said about having a bunch of big red flying dragons. Some decks will just fold to that.

[The Crow's Eye]

That list looks quite fun. Mine's a bit more serious:

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Moltensteel Dragon

4 Seething Song
4 Blood Moon

4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Mountain

Moltensteel has proven to be an excellent 4-drop. I favor Stormbreath as it can resist StP/PtE if Chalice fails. The biggest flex slots in my earlier builds were the three-drop slots. Two creatures presented themselves as possible candidates: Hanweir Watchkeep and Viashino Outrider. Both play well with Sol lands. Watchkeep can eat a Lightning Bolt and chump quite a few things. Bane of Hanweir is nothing to sneeze at. Outrider's aggressively costed; 2R for 4/3. But that freaking echo cost...

What's your go-to three-drop?

[Zupponn]

In my current list, the only 3 drop creature I run besides Magus is a single Jaya Ballard, Task Mage. The rest either cost 4 or 5. I prefer to run the goblin build.

[The Crow's Eye]

I see there's some who don't like Trinisphere. Try Defense Grid, especially if you're using Seething Song.

[Zupponn]

I see there's some who don't like Trinisphere. Try Defense Grid, especially if you're using Seething Song.

Defense Grid is not a good replacement for 3sphere. The biggest problem that 3sphere has is that it's a terrible top deck late, which is also true for Defense Grid. The biggest advantage of running 3sphere is that it can win games on its own versus decks that cannot meet the mana requirements. Defense Grid only really protects against counterspells. Your opponent can cast all of his other stuff on their turn.

A good example:

You're playing against Storm.

Option 1 - Play Defense Grid

Your opponent reads it, laughs, and then combos off after you pass the turn.

Option 2 - Play Trinisphere

Your opponent reads it, cries, and then scoops.

[Zupponn]

Has anyone else tested Prophetic Flamespeaker yet? So far he seems pretty good.

4x Gathan Raiders
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Arc-Slogger

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Blood Moon
3x Trinisphere
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain

I feel that the Flamespeaker might be better suited to a Hellbent shell than a Goblin shell, mostly because of his natural aggressiveness and the speed he provides when he is equipped. He also doesn't seem to play well with Moggcatcher as he wants you to keep mana open to use the extra cards, which might put a strain on a Goblin shell's manabase.

In this list Arc-Slogger could easily be either Siege-Gang Commander or Flametongue Kavu. I'm thinking that SCG might be correct and the best option here.


EDIT:

Actually, I think that I do like the Goblin list with Flamespeaker even more than the Hellbent list after testing.

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Moggcatcher
4x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Rakka Mar
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

11x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors

[nedleeds]

How do any of these creature discussions not start with 4 x Stormbreath Dragons? Why play all these terrible hill giants? It's a 4/4 hasted un plowable un boltable un decayable planeswalker eating beast.

[LeoCop 90]

Because 5 mana are a lot and we desperately need creatures that cost 3-4.
That said, i am a fan of stormbreath and i think it should be in this deck.... unless you are running hte goblin build that is different.

[The Crow's Eye]

Was it tough casting your Arc Slogger without Seething Song or Koth of the Hammer? I myself find that playing 11 sources of red, not countering SSG and Moxen, is often adequate. I myself favor Stormbreath, mostly because there's lots of white in the local meta. Also, sticking a Jitte on Hound of Griselbrand is a nice way to put your opponent on a clock.

[Zupponn]

Was it tough casting your Arc Slogger without Seething Song or Koth of the Hammer?

Not really, although a lot of times he just got imprinted onto Chrome Mox. I was actually more surprised that Prophetic Flamespeaker was fairly easy to cast with his 1RR cost.

[Sleight]

Hey guys, been testing this list with a lot going on in it. Its been a lot of fun but I don't know if playing painter is just strictly better. Here is the pile:

1 Soldier of Fortune
2 Instigator Gang
1 Hanweir Watchkeep
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Blood Moon
6 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Arid Mesa
3 City of Traitors
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Plateau

//Sideboard
3 Guerrilla Tactics
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Manic Vandal

[Zupponn]

I'm not 100% sold on the Soldier of Fortunes, and would probably try cutting them for a 4th Flamespeaker or some equipment. Your list would really like a Jitte or SoFI somewhere. They both help Flamespeaker beat down like a boss or give the Recruiter some combat legs as well.

[Zirath]

This list has showed up 3-1 a couple times:


Main Deck
60 cards

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
18 lands

2 Hound of Griselbrand
4 Kargan Dragonlord
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
18 creatures

4 Blood Moon
1 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
24 other spells

Sideboard
2 Anarchy
2 Boil
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Shattering Spree
1 Sudden Demise
2 Tormod's Crypt
15 sideboard cards

If those Hounds were Humans, we get to play Cavern. In addition, I would probably cut the Bonfire of the Damned. However, I'm not sure what Human to play. Lot of options, few good ones.

EDIT:

List of playable humans:

Academy Raider
Archetype of Aggression
Burning-Tree Emissary
Instigator Gang
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Priest of Urabrask
Rakka Mar

[Zupponn]

The list is identical to the one Caleb Durward talked about in his article:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-hot-flamespeaker-love-in-every-format/

According to the comments, there's a guy streaming this deck and another right now.


As for the list itself, I'm not much of a fan of both the light amount of threats the deck can lay down and the use of the Dragonlord, who I've always thought was a bad card for both Dragon Stompy and Legacy in general. I would much rather be casting Moggcatcher or even Gathan Raiders than him.

[nedleeds]

Because 5 mana are a lot and we desperately need creatures that cost 3-4.
That said, i am a fan of stormbreath and i think it should be in this deck.... unless you are running hte goblin build that is different.

If Moggcatcher was 1RR fine ... or ETB. But you have to pass. It has to live. You have to untap. You have to spend more mana to activate him. He brings in another small non-evasive thing. It's awful.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Stormbreath Dragon
nedleeds, what would your 60 or 75 look like?
I agree with you that SBD is the best threat, but have found it difficult to jam more than 1 or 2 into my maindeck...

[nedleeds]

nedleeds, what would your 60 or 75 look like?
I agree with you that SBD is the best threat, but have found it difficult to jam more than 1 or 2 into my maindeck...

Well, you have Chrome Mox and I'm assuming you are playing Seething Song. I think 3-5 5 mana spells is fine. If you aren't playing Seething Song or Grim Monolith then it's probably to high of a curve. Last time I played Dragon Stompy was Nashville and I played the full 4 Stormbreath. I also played 4 Caverns, and some games where you don't have a sufficient lock piece (Chalice 1 for example, or a Moon vs. BUG) you can just win with an un-counterable 4/4 Haste that certain decks can't kill or race. BUG can't kill it. Miracles has to Terminus it. It makes mid game songs and extra sol lands not complete bricks.

Mana bases like

8 x sol
4 x cavern
6-8 x mountains
4 x chrommox
4 x ssg
4 x seething song

That's a mana base that is designed to explode on turn one or 2 ... not dick about and play the long game. I think being explosive and lucky with opening hands and dice rolls is the only hope to get 7-8 wins in a 9 round SCG. It's a spoiler deck that is supposed to get a couple free wins out of fast chalice, fast blood moon. I think SBD and other fast hitters are the best bet to close to game as fast as possible. SBD also give you something to do on turn 5 or so if you've just bricked on top decks and drawn land, land, song which any stompy deck is ripe to do.

[Zupponn]

If Moggcatcher was 1RR fine ... or ETB. But you have to pass. It has to live. You have to untap. You have to spend more mana to activate him. He brings in another small non-evasive thing. It's awful.

Have you tested him? If he was terrible, I wouldn't be running him. And I believe that this is the first time I've ever heard of someone complaining about the lack of power Siege-Gang Commander brings to the table.

Besides, Stormbreath doesn't win the game on the spot. There are still many ways to beat him in all of the most common decks. For instance, if they drop a Batterskull, then you just lose unless you pull something else.

[nedleeds]

Paying seven mana over two turns (assuming your Grey Ogre for 2RR lives) for SGC is awful. If you like it then that's fantastic.

[Sleight]

You are playing mogg catcher on a bored that has some sort of prison effect on the bored. All you generally need is one or two triggers to build enough advantage to steal games.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[LeoCop 90]

Moggcatcher is not a stream lined threat like dragons, it is a repeatable tutor that is completely unbeatable if he sticks for a couple turns. Besides cheating in siege gang commander wich is always good, he can bring to the table artifact destruction (tuk tuk scrapper) land destruction (goblin settler, what about destroying their lone basic land under blood moon) , creature bounce (stingscourger, hello emrakul !) , plus other options i could be missing. And you can repeat the above mentioned effects every turn if you are running also a kiki-jiki.

He needs to survive, yes, and this is a problem because he dies to everything. But if he survives he's the best creature possible and let us recover from what opponents could have done before we dropped a lock piece down.

[nedleeds]

Moggcatcher is not a stream lined threat like dragons, it is a repeatable tutor that is completely unbeatable if he sticks for a couple turns. Besides cheating in siege gang commander wich is always good, he can bring to the table artifact destruction (tuk tuk scrapper) land destruction (goblin settler, what about destroying their lone basic land under blood moon) , creature bounce (stingscourger, hello emrakul !) , plus other options i could be missing. And you can repeat the above mentioned effects every turn if you are running also a kiki-jiki.

He needs to survive, yes, and this is a problem because he dies to everything. But if he survives he's the best creature possible and let us recover from what opponents could have done before we dropped a lock piece down.

Your opponent is just dead in a couple turns from a SBD? The Batterskull argument is bunk also, your SFM opponent will just get a Jitte to murder your Grey Ogre Tutor. You should kill the SFM or have a Revoker out. If you have the opponent locked under multiple pieces (a moon, a chalice 1) then you just want the hastiest most evasive threat. I don't understand the rationale for messing about with a 4CC 2/2 for a couple turns to start doing damage (assuming they don't revoke him and turn him into a bad hill giant). Enjoy yourselves.

[nedleeds]

You are playing mogg catcher on a bored that has some sort of prison effect on the bored. All you generally need is one or two triggers to build enough advantage to steal games.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

I'm bored of these bad arguments. If the board is locked then just get the fastest, hasted, evasive threat. Why get a slow crappy thing that dies to bolt / swords / everything? If you just have moon he still dies to bolt. If they snuck a shaman through he dies to plow / disfigure. They can cast revoker with mountains. Seems awful.

[LeoCop 90]

Opponent dead in a couple turns to stormbreath dragon ? I don't know your math , but it is 5 turns to actually kill opponent. During this time , i can guarantee moggcatcher would have done a lot more work than stormbreath.
Other problem is stormbreath costs 5 not 4, and playing seething song sucks. First turn ancient tomb, simian spirit guide, seething song, dragon..... take a force of will and you just lose. I don't like to lose like a belcher deck when i face a counterspell.

Mind that i actually like stormbreath dragon, but i think 4 of him in the deck with 4 seething songs just make a too much all-in deck.
I understand the problems with moggcatcher, but i think you are greatly undervaluing him. As i said, he can answer pretty much everything, and with him we can play also a controllish game instead of going only aggro - mode. He just makes the deck more flexible. He will never die to umezawa's jitte because you should be able to activate him to blow up jitte before opponent is able to attack with an equipped creature. He will die to bolt and plow, but we played a lot of creature like rakdos pit dragon which died to removals, and opponent will not always have counters for your chalice at one and removals to kill every threat you drop.

Having a giant unkillable beater is fantastic, but i don't think now we should dismiss every other option because of this. Mostly because this beater costs 5 and not 3-4.

[Zupponn]

The Batterskull argument is bunk also

I don't see how. They play Betterskull and you have to keep SBD back to block or you lose, and even if you monstrous him, you still have to keep him back to block or you lose. And all this time they are building up a stronger board than you are, because that's what happens when DS stalls.

If we play either SBD or MC turn 2 and it sticks, then they go turn 2 Stoneforge:

SBD:
They get Batterskull and sneak it in next turn. You've hit them for 8. Now, without mana to go Monstrous, you cannot attack profitably anymore. Your only option is to trade your dragon for their token, which doesn't sound good. You're also super behind in resources because you had to spend cards to accelerate SBD out, while your opponent got a free card from Stoneforge.

MC:
They get Jitte and sneak it in next turn. You find Tuktuk Scrapper and destroy it. Then you get SGC and you're so far ahead both in resources and on the board that you probably won the game.


Again, I stress, please test out Moggcatcher before coming to hasty conclusions about how good or bad he may be. He's not flashy, but he brings a lot of power with him.

[The Crow's Eye]

I find that Koth works just as well as Seething Song when it comes to casting Stormbreath Dragon. Flamespeaker has been putting in quite a bit of work. :wink:

Let's not forget that this is a meta-dependent deck. One threat may work better than the other depending on your local meta.

[nedleeds]

I don't see how. They play Betterskull and you have to keep SBD back to block or you lose, and even if you monstrous him, you still have to keep him back to block or you lose. And all this time they are building up a stronger board than you are, because that's what happens when DS stalls.

If we play either SBD or MC turn 2 and it sticks, then they go turn 2 Stoneforge:


I don't see how you are going to win either way if you let them resolve and use SFM unimpeded regardless. It's one of the reasons it's very tough to get 7-8 wins with Dragonstompy in a 9-10 round tourney. But a 2/2 for 4 without haste or any ability to do anything but die to literally every removal spell south of abrupt decay (bolt, stp, punishing fire, grim lavamancer, dis-fucking figure). You failed at "and it sticks" ... it has to stick and survive until your next untap. I think it's garbage, I'd play Koth a 1,000 times over before I played it and SBD 1,000 times before I played it. If you enjoy it, enjoy it I think it's awful. I'd rather play to win fast than dick around with a grey ogre. Even a pile of shit like Rakka Mar can maybe attack for 2. Beetleback chief leaves 2 turds behind when he gets bolted.

[LeoCop 90]

Man, if you are so convinced of your arguments then stop posting. We tried to explain in details why we like moggcatcher while you just keep saying he is a piece of shit because he dies to removals. So, just don't play him and end this discussion.


I find that Koth works just as well as Seething Song when it comes to casting Stormbreath Dragon.

I approve this. I'm so used to bash with 4/4 mountains or get emblems that i almost forgot that koth also ramps. Running koth together with dragon seems really interesting.

[Jelmerz77]

I don't see how you are going to win either way if you let them resolve and use SFM unimpeded regardless. It's one of the reasons it's very tough to get 7-8 wins with Dragonstompy in a 9-10 round tourney. But a 2/2 for 4 without haste or any ability to do anything but die to literally every removal spell south of abrupt decay (bolt, stp, punishing fire, grim lavamancer, dis-fucking figure). You failed at "and it sticks" ... it has to stick and survive until your next untap. I think it's garbage, I'd play Koth a 1,000 times over before I played it and SBD 1,000 times before I played it. If you enjoy it, enjoy it I think it's awful. I'd rather play to win fast than dick around with a grey ogre. Even a pile of shit like Rakka Mar can maybe attack for 2. Beetleback chief leaves 2 turds behind when he gets bolted.

The thing I hated with Dragon Stompy was that if you were behind on the board you you would almost never recover once you are in topdeck mode. Rakdos Pit Dragon didn't succeed in this in the past and Stormbreath Dragon doesn't do that now. Once you are in a hole a Stormbreath Dragon that is unanswered for a few turns will not dig you out of it. You will not hold off 2 4/5 Tarmogoyfs with a Stormbreath Dragon. A Moggcatcher will dig you out of that hole if unanswered for a few turns.... Siege Gang Commander + Kiki Jiki can and will block a lot of Tarmogoyfs and shoot flipped Delvers out of the air all day long. And also will neuter a Batterskull (but there are several goblins that blow up artifacts anyway.

But if Stormbreath Dragon does all that for you, then good for you. But simply dismissing other peoples well argumented choices by saying they are bad.... Meh...

[entreri_fans]

Hi, everyone! I am learning to play Dragon Stompy. this deck is really ridiculous.

But I find myself really have problems with chrome mox. many lists run a full set of chrome moxes. I know it could be great if we have mox in our opening hand, but I really hate to draw it once we're in topdeck mode, aka mid & late game. not to mention the opening hand of multiple mox is really bad. the card disadvantage is terrible. because we can't imprint mox on redundant chalice/trinisphere, I find myself often need to struggle to imprint mox on precious creatures in early game, which often leads to me mana flooded late game and having to wait long time to topdeck another threat.

Is it ok to replace those moxes with lotus petals? And if so, perhaps I should slightly increase my lands to avoid possible mana screw in early game?

Thanks in advance!

[nedleeds]

Man, if you are so convinced of your arguments then stop posting. We tried to explain in details why we like moggcatcher while you just keep saying he is a piece of shit because he dies to removals. So, just don't play him and end this discussion.



I approve this. I'm so used to bash with 4/4 mountains or get emblems that i almost forgot that koth also ramps. Running koth together with dragon seems really interesting.

If you are so convinced I'm wrong stop replying (see this can go on forever?). I ended most of my posts with if you like him, play him (or If you enjoy it, enjoy it I think it's awful) but I think he's awful and I gave multiple reasons (die to everything ost importantly bolt and punishing fire, does nothing upon entering battlefield, can be revoked/amced, needs a full turn, doesn't evade). Some people kept replying and white knighting him. You've got people debating Soldier of Fortune in here for gods sake.

[The Crow's Eye]

Hi, everyone! I am learning to play Dragon Stompy. this deck is really ridiculous.

But I find myself really have problems with chrome mox. many lists run a full set of chrome moxes. I know it could be great if we have mox in our opening hand, but I really hate to draw it once we're in topdeck mode, aka mid & late game. not to mention the opening hand of multiple mox is really bad. the card disadvantage is terrible. because we can't imprint mox on redundant chalice/trinisphere, I find myself often need to struggle to imprint mox on precious creatures in early game, which often leads to me mana flooded late game and having to wait long time to topdeck another threat.

Is it ok to replace those moxes with lotus petals? And if so, perhaps I should slightly increase my lands to avoid possible mana screw in early game?

Thanks in advance!

Test it and find out! You can also run Prophetic Flamespeaker if you've got some equipment.

[Zirath]

Hi, everyone! I am learning to play Dragon Stompy. this deck is really ridiculous.

But I find myself really have problems with chrome mox. many lists run a full set of chrome moxes. I know it could be great if we have mox in our opening hand, but I really hate to draw it once we're in topdeck mode, aka mid & late game. not to mention the opening hand of multiple mox is really bad. the card disadvantage is terrible. because we can't imprint mox on redundant chalice/trinisphere, I find myself often need to struggle to imprint mox on precious creatures in early game, which often leads to me mana flooded late game and having to wait long time to topdeck another threat.

Is it ok to replace those moxes with lotus petals? And if so, perhaps I should slightly increase my lands to avoid possible mana screw in early game?

Thanks in advance!

Unfortunately we need the permanent mana. It's a very big issue. I've tried lists with Petals and they just don't work. Many of your hands are just as bad if not worse because you cant' make any plays as the game goes on.

[Zupponn]

Hi, everyone! I am learning to play Dragon Stompy. this deck is really ridiculous.

But I find myself really have problems with chrome mox. many lists run a full set of chrome moxes. I know it could be great if we have mox in our opening hand, but I really hate to draw it once we're in topdeck mode, aka mid & late game. not to mention the opening hand of multiple mox is really bad. the card disadvantage is terrible. because we can't imprint mox on redundant chalice/trinisphere, I find myself often need to struggle to imprint mox on precious creatures in early game, which often leads to me mana flooded late game and having to wait long time to topdeck another threat.

Is it ok to replace those moxes with lotus petals? And if so, perhaps I should slightly increase my lands to avoid possible mana screw in early game?

Thanks in advance!
Test it out and see how you like it. It's never a bad thing to see how different cards play in a deck.

[entreri_fans]

@The Crow's Eye, @Zirath, @Zupponn

wow, thanks guys! yep, I am going to test it myself, and if works not well, I will be switching back to mox.

yeah, I also think prophetic flamespeaker is sweet in this deck. his draw ability is great, as we often run out of cards quickly:frown: I suppose his 1RR mana cost is not hard to reach as we have 8 moon effects in our deck:tongue:

if we need a draw engine, what about Chandra, Pyromaster? I know her ult maybe useless in our deck:frown:, but her second ability seems powerful:tongue:

thanks for any suggestions

[The Crow's Eye]

Chandra hasn't done anything much for me here. Koth, at least, gives me two sources of mana plus a 4/4. Chandra could just as easily turn up a useless card.

[Blastoderm]

Why are people still talking about Stormbreath Dragon? The card is complete trash. Please just stop. Thanks.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Why are people still talking about Stormbreath Dragon? The card is complete trash. Please just stop. Thanks.
What is this statement based on? It sort of seems like a knee-jerk reaction to nedleeds dissing Moggcatcher...

At last night's weekly, I ran:
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Seething Song
3 Instigator Gang
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Koth of the Hammer
in addition to the core of mana and locks.

3 Phyrexian Revoker and 4 Stone Rain were moved to the board.

SBD is far from 'complete trash' but is certainly not the answer this deck needs to destroy the meta. Over the course of the night SBD died to double Lightning Bolt, was bounced by JtMS, or just outright countered. It also beat for 4 (or 7 with a flipped Instigator Gang... Never got to make it Monstrous though) and won a game or two. Really Koth was the all star of my 3-1 evening in a 17 player weekly. I got knocked out of top 8 by 12-Post of all things. :cry: (mull to 4 in game 2. S+T won him games 2 and 3... *sigh*).

Last week I ran Werewolves for the first time (3 Instigator Gang and 4 Hanweir Watchkeep) after calling them 'complete trash' since they were released. They are no better or worse beaters than Rakdos Pit Dragon or Gathan Raiders as finishers. They all have their problems and they all do surprising amounts of damage out of nowhere. BUT the werewolves don't make you feel bad for keeping the extra 3sphere or Blood Moon in your hand.


I have not tried the Moggcatcher build since I tried it a few months ago and got destroyed. My misfortune had nothing to do with the build though. I never played a catcher and might have rage-quit after losing 2 and getting a bye... I forget. It is on my list of things to test in my quest to find an optimal build for this pile I can't help but love.

I am also interested in testing a build with Prophetic Flamespeaker and Chandra, Pyromaster at some point.

What else... Oh yeah! Nothing is more frustrating than having your game winning beater countered the same turn you dropped a Cavern of Souls that is only a Mountain under your own Blood Moon... :rolleyes:

[JPoJohnson]

I'm surprised that so many people are arguing Moggcatcher? Here are my thoughts on the matter:

Sure, he allows for a toolbox sort of deck as well as quickly end the game, but he's extremely easy to remove. He also requires constant mana investment that doesn't win the game, just works towards winning the game. I would prefer someone a bit more versatile personally. Otherwise you run cards that aren't optimal but are toolboxy and are horrible draws against certain decks. Plus, you end up drawing the card that you would have put into play with moggcatcher and that would stink. He's just... too cute.

Just run cards that are great in most conditions. Then you don't have to worry about what you're drawing and not.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Just run cards that are great in most conditions.
Why didn't I think of that! :tongue:
Any suggestions as to which cards?

[Blastoderm]

Why didn't I think of that! :tongue:
Any suggestions as to which cards?

3 Siege gang commander. Awesome when hardcast as well. No other moggcatcher targets maindeck.

No garbage toolbox cards like settler/kiki jiki.

[LeoCop 90]

Well , I think it is pointless running moggcatcher without a small toolbox. if you use him just to cast siege-gang , then you are better off running other threats .... or do you think siege-gang is more powerful than dragons/werevolves/other creatures ?

[wooboy11]

I think it is a matter of playstyle, afterall. What wins it for me is, as someone else pointed, Moggcatcher digs you out of holes. In my 60 I run 3 Koth's, 4 Hanweir, 2 Instigator's, 4 Moggcatchers and 2 SGC. This is a pretty versatile threat package, imo. I'm not running SBD because it is too expensive atm, but I would run it aswell.

Before testing, I wasn't too confident on Moggcatcher, but he seems to work, he digs you out of bad places pretty hard. Is it the surprise factor alone? Maybe. But I mean, if the opponent will keep the few removals he can cast to kill off Moggcatchers, you can take advantage of that.

And btw, no toolbox.

[Blastoderm]

I think it is a matter of playstyle, afterall. What wins it for me is, as someone else pointed, Moggcatcher digs you out of holes. In my 60 I run 3 Koth's, 4 Hanweir, 2 Instigator's, 4 Moggcatchers and 2 SGC. This is a pretty versatile threat package, imo. I'm not running SBD because it is too expensive atm, but I would run it aswell.

Before testing, I wasn't too confident on Moggcatcher, but he seems to work, he digs you out of bad places pretty hard. Is it the surprise factor alone? Maybe. But I mean, if the opponent will keep the few removals he can cast to kill off Moggcatchers, you can take advantage of that.

And btw, no toolbox.

This. Hardcasting Siege-gang gets you out of holes as well. Rakka Mar has performed extremely well for me with the same purpose. Another creature that says "remove me or lose".

[Tyrio]

I imagine Nedleed's point was that for the most part SBD can't be removed. I suppose SGC is somewhat better against Liliana and Jace (the latter of which can be killed by simply recasting SBD), but he seems a lot more mediocre against things like Tarmogoyf and TNN.

I imagine debate between SBD and Moggcatcher comes down to match-up and whatever lock piece you managed to land. If you managed to get Chalice on 1 into play, Moggcatcher is also pretty much unremovable. If it's Blood Moon or 3Ball then he can still be killed with Bolts and Swords. Some decks like Jund and Merfolk can also probably beat/race 1 or 2 SGCs (after removing Mogg) whereas they probably can't remove/race SBD in time.

If he has removal and no board, Moggcatcher loses and SBD wins. If he has no removal and a board, Moggcatcher probably has a slight edge over SBD since you can just start crapping out SGCs/toolbox (although SBD can race). If he has both, SBD is better because you can potentially race in a situation where Moggcatcher would just get removed. And if he has nothing then I imagine it doesn't really matter what you're killing him with. Ultimately I think SBD's resilience to removal is stronger than Moggcatcher's ability to crap out SGCs. If you're running the Moggcatcher toolbox he may be a little better against SFM decks since he can find Tuktuk Scrapper.

[nedleeds]

I imagine debate between SBD and Moggcatcher comes down to match-up and whatever lock piece you managed to land. If you managed to get Chalice on 1 into play, Moggcatcher is also pretty much unremovable.

God damn you for dragging me back in. But Moggcatcher doesn't do anything except imitate Grey Ogre when it lands. Hero of Oxid Ridge is better. It can be nailed by a few popular things on 2 like Punishing Fire and Phyrexian Revoker. Who knows, maybe someday they'll print a more efficient way of dropping large goblins on the board without paying their mana costs. We can only hope.



If he has removal and no board, Moggcatcher loses and SBD wins. If he has no removal and a board, Moggcatcher probably has a slight edge over SBD since you can just start crapping out SGCs/toolbox (although SBD can race). If he has both, SBD is better because you can potentially race in a situation where Moggcatcher would just get removed. And if he has nothing then I imagine it doesn't really matter what you're killing him with.

I'd also say Seething Song is a determinate (obviously) in how many 5's you play. I'd prefer to play any chalice.8bloodmoon.dec as aggressively as possible, the game doesn't improve for you the longer it goes. I also don't think you can top 8 a 8-10 rounder without hitting 4-5 decks that just cave to blood moon. The best deck that doesn't cave to blood moon is miracles (followed by SneakShow followed by maybe merfolks). Stormbreath murders miracles alongside 4 Caverns, SneakShow you need to get Chalice/Revoke things and win as fast as possible with big hasty guys and hopefully have some sideboard spots for the miserable matchup.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Is this (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13668&iddeck=100433) list close enough to discuss in this thread?

I took it* to a 42 player event today and had a mediocre 3-3 outcome.

R1 - Sneak/Show: Win 2-1
R2 - Merfolk: Loss 1-2
R3 - Sneak/Show: Win 2-0
R4 - Merfolk: Loss 1-2
R5 - Mono-Red Recruiterless Painter: Loss 0-2
R6 - BUG: Win 2-1

Ensnaring Bridge wrecks Merfolk but I had a lot of difficulty resolving it and did not mull aggressively for it like I did against Sneak/Show.

This list was the most fun I've had running 8 Moons in months. The combination of Magma Jet and Crystal Ball really felt like an improvement for the deck, letting you dig for what you need and setting up Bonfire of the Damned.



*I don't have a Forcefield so I used a 4th Magus of the Moon. I also used Ingot Chewer over Vandal, and a 4th 3sphere for the Magus I maindecked. I had no idea what he used Form of the Dragon for, so I used a 4th Tormod's Crypt.

[The Crow's Eye]

That's a pretty interesting list. Ensnaring Bridge seems like it'd be good for the Hellbent shell. Here is my latest take on the deck, combining threats and such.

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Hanweir Watchkeep
4 Hound of Griselbrand
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere

3 Koth of the Hammer

2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

[Ace/Homebrew]

Ensnaring Bridge seems like it'd be good for the Hellbent shell.
Except creatures that deal damage by attacking and Ensnaring Bridge is a nonbo. :rolleyes:

[nedleeds]

Ensnaring Bridge seems like it'd be good for the Hellbent shell.

I LOL'ed. Might have shat myself a little as well. Maybe stock up on Shrapnel Blasts so when your entire deck is stuck behind your own bridge you can explode your bridge and send the team over. Great work guys, these are all really good suggestions.

[Ninjawalrus88]

Creature (21)
1x Avalanche Riders
4x Imperial Recruiter
4x Instigator Gang Flip
1x Kargan Dragonlord
3x Magus of the Moon
1x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Prophetic Flamespeaker
1x Rakka Mar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon
Planeswalker (1)
1x Koth of the Hammer
Artifact (14)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
3x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Land (20)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
8x Mountain
Sideboard (15)
2x Anarchy
1x Avalanche Riders
2x Duplicant
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Manic Vandal
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte


This is the list I currently run. It runs almost entirely human creatures to utilize cavern, and almost every threat can be tutored with imperial recruiter. Cavern lets us cast an unconterable Magus of the Moon, which is reason enough to run it. The extra equipment lets us blow people out with Flamespeaker. I've found that in every situation, one threat is marginally better than another. Intigator gang is best when you have a board presence, Prophetic Flamespeaker is best when you need to rebuild, avalanche rider takes out basics, Rakka Mar allows us to utilize Intigator Gang as well as possible, and DragonLord is best when you are facing a bunch of blockers and need the evasion. Imperial Recruiter allows us to tutor all the above up, as well as magus, and sideboard silver bullets. Revoker is an all star, and beign able to tutor up multiple is fantastic. Faerie Macabre is tutorable graveyard hate. Duplicant is an awesome card against show and tell, and Emrakul-esque combo decks, that we can reasonably cast. Manic vandal hits batterskull and combo pieces, and is tutorable and a human. An extra avalanche rider helps us hit basics. An extra trinisphere for combo matchups. Koth for the grindy games. Jitte to sweep creature decks. Anarchy is practically only for the D&T matchup, which I have found difficult.


Any suggestions to improve "Human" stompy? Specifically with the Recruiter targets.

[Scott]

I had no idea what he used Form of the Dragon for, so I used a 4th Tormod's Crypt.

The list is fairly light on Sneak & Show answers--with just the four Ensnaring Bridges--so I'm sure it's mostly there for that, but I assume it's also there because it's castable against slower decks. I'm just unsure what you'd even want it against. I mean, the deck has plenty of ways to win without combat anyway, with Koth of the Hammer, Chandra, Pyromaster, Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, Magma Jet, Bonfire of the Damned. Maybe he just put it in as a fun option, or I'm forgetting uses.

[Zupponn]

Well, this is Dragon Stompy...

[Blastoderm]

So I came back to this deck. 4-0 tonight.
2-0 vs Junk
2-1 vs UWR
2-1 vs BUG pod
2-0 vs Esper stoneblade

Notes:
- tuk-tuk scrapper killed 3 batterskulls
- sudden shock was awesome against the dorks that plague legacy (delver, stoneforge, dark confidant)
- revoker shut off tons of annoying stuff
- moggcatcher destroyed everything



4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Moggcatcher
3 Siege-gang commander
3 Hound of Griselbrand
3 Rakka Mar
2 Instigator Gang
2 Koth of the Hammer

4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain

SB:
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sudden Shock
2 Boil
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuk-Tuk Scrapper

[Leyart]

I am planning to bring this list to a local tourney of around 100 people on sunday. I have problems with Death & Taxes and Sneak & Show though. Any suggestion?

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Hanweir Watchkeep
3 Instigator Gang
8 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Chrome Mox
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Kruin Outlaw
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Koth of the Hammer
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Anarchy
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 3 Ashen Rider

[kaizermikoto]

I am planning to bring this list to a local tourney of around 100 people on sunday. I have problems with Death & Taxes and Sneak & Show though. Any suggestion?

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Hanweir Watchkeep
3 Instigator Gang
8 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Chrome Mox
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Kruin Outlaw
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Koth of the Hammer
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Anarchy
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 3 Ashen Rider


Hi guys and sorry if my english seems poor, I m french.

I d rather play 3 Koth, he is really good vs control matchup.

You can deal with sneak show / omni show with ensnaring bridge and confusion in the ranks / trini. Is death and taxes really that bad?

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I am planning to bring this list to a local tourney of around 100 people on sunday. I have problems with Death & Taxes and Sneak & Show though. Any suggestion?

If your really having trouble beating Death & Taxes try out Pyrokinesis or Sudden Demise. You are simply going to have to outplay Batterskull if they get it though. Tough match-up.

I personally don't like Pyroblast in this deck. We are kind of "Tap out" control. Just jam it and get there. Ya' know? I'd definitely run Ensnaring Bridge before one of the two blue hate counters.

[Zupponn]

The goblin build generally eats D&T for breakfast.

[Jelmerz77]

If your really having trouble beating Death & Taxes try out Pyrokinesis or Sudden Demise. You are simply going to have to outplay Batterskull if they get it though. Tough match-up.

I personally don't like Pyroblast in this deck. We are kind of "Tap out" control. Just jam it and get there. Ya' know? I'd definitely run Ensnaring Bridge before one of the two blue hate counters.

Pyroblast??? Cards like that are a no no in decks that run Chalice of the Void.

[Jelmerz77]

I personally don't like Pyroblast in this deck. We are kind of "Tap out" control. Just jam it and get there. Ya' know? I'd definitely run Ensnaring Bridge before one of the two blue hate counters.

And Please read Ensnaring Bridge again.... Carefully.... I doubt you will be having a hand full of card running any kind of mono red stompy shell.:eyebrow:

[kaizermikoto]

And Please read Ensnaring Bridge again.... Carefully.... I doubt you will be having a hand full of card running any kind of mono red stompy shell.:eyebrow:

that s why koth and sgc are good

[Zupponn]

Pyroblast??? Cards like that are a no no in decks that run Chalice of the Void.

From the thread primer:


Pyroblast
Red Elemental Blast
On the first glance it looks anti-synergistic with Chalice 1, but you should keep in mind that you board out CotV against the decks this card is good [Merfolk, Jacestill, Show & Tell]. Furthermore, it should be noted that if you play more than 4, Pyroblast should always be maximized first, since you can cast it on own cards if you need Hellbent.

[Rad_Fishy]

Anybody come across videos of the Goblin version? I'd like to check it out.

[Jables237]

Hey all! Just took 1st at an SCG legacy IQ with mono red stompy. 32 players. Here is the list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/29-06-14-flamespeaker-stompy/[1]



4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
2x hound of griselbrand
4x Kargan Dragonlord
3x Koth of the Hammer
2x lodestone golem
4x Magus of the Moon
11x Mountain
4x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
4x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte

//Board://

3x Phyrexian Revoker
1x pyroblast
3x Pyrokinesis
2x red elemental blast
3x Shattering Spree
3x Tormod's Crypt



Only been playing this for about 3 weeks but its a super fun deck. Got the inspiration from a streamer twitch.tv/Pomegrant . He played it for a few hours and I had to build it. Have had moderate success at weekly legacy events. Went 0-3 last week and was getting ready to play stoneblade again but I figured I would give this deck one more chance. I am very glad I did!

Didn't take any notes so can't really do a detailed tournament report but here is what I played:

Round 1 Patriot delver
Bloodmoons, chalice and trinisphere are house here. Lost game 2 to turn 1 delver and a pile of counter magic. Won 2-1

Round 2 Sneak and show
Managed to win one game but this deck is absolutely in their favor. I only won because he had through the breach and Ashen Rider and that just wasn't enough. Lost 1-2

Round 3 Burn A hit or miss matchup. Game 1 had the play and turn 1 trinisphere. From there was just a matter of killing him. Game two, mulled down to 4 looking for chalice or trinisphere and he was able to smash it. Quick loss. Game 3 I pulled off by the skin of my Jitte. Had to -1/-1 my flamespeaker to attack through his ensnaring bridge and then pump for the win. Won 2-1

Round 4 Affinity
Got paired down to play a 2 and 2. He was kind enough to scoop and we played it out for fun. Trinisphere wrecks them. Won 2-0

Round 5 BUG
Very in my favor. 2 game with quick blood moons and trinisphere. He couldn't do much. Won 2-0

Top 8 round 1 Patriot delver from round 1.
Games pretty much played out the same. Had a game where 2/2 monkey beats with a jitte was what won it for me. He had me down to 4 or 5 life. Won 2-1

Top 8 round 2 Lands
Fairly easy matchup. Moons are king. Won 2-0

Top 8 round 3 Elves
Game one, chalice on 1 followed by trinisphere. Game two couldn't find any lock pieces. Even with a Mull to 4. Game three got the chalice, sphere, lodestone going. Won 2-1 for first place!

[OCPunisher]

Round 2 Sneak and show
Managed to win one game but this deck is absolutely in their favor. I only won because he had through the breach and Ashen Rider and that just wasn't enough. Lost 1-2

In hindsight, or in future events, what if anything would you do to shore up this matchup?

[Jables237]

In hindsight, or in future events, what if anything would you do to shore up this matchup?

I think the best sideboard hate is ensnaring bridge. It can be useful against other decks because it is very easy to empty our hands with chrome mox and mana monkey. Not sure really what I would take out for it though. Maybe tormod's crypt and we can bring in bridge vs dredge/lands/reanimater? That doesn't seem too terrible.

[OCPunisher]

I think the best sideboard hate is ensnaring bridge. It can be useful against other decks because it is very easy to empty our hands with chrome mox and mana monkey. Not sure really what I would take out for it though. Maybe tormod's crypt and we can bring in bridge vs dredge/lands/reanimater? That doesn't seem too terrible.

Bridge seems OK, or some other random monster like Ashen Rider or Phyrexian Ingester might also work.

How come there were no Cavern of Souls in here? I could about a dozen or so Humans...not quite tribal but still seems worth it.

Also, how did you like the Hounds and Lodestone Golems? Would you consider adding/subtracting either of those in the future?

[Jables237]

Bridge seems OK, or some other random monster like Ashen Rider or Phyrexian Ingester might also work.

How come there were no Cavern of Souls in here? I could about a dozen or so Humans...not quite tribal but still seems worth it.

Also, how did you like the Hounds and Lodestone Golems? Would you consider adding/subtracting either of those in the future?

I like hounds. They are a little harder to deal with for some decks (aka not STP). Lodestone was kind of a last minute addition. Its can slows down combos and removal spells. Not as hard of a lock as Chalice and trinisphere though. I have been bouncing around 2 and 3 of them. I think the big change I am debating is Going from 1 SoFi 1 Jitte to 2 or 3 Jitte. Double strike jitte wins games. Absolutely wrecks with Flame speaker and makes mana monkeys actually worth casting.

As to Cavern of souls I thought about it. Uncounterable magus seems so good. The deck can have some hard times on the red mana though. Koth and Hounds might be rough but could come out for one of the werewolves I suppose.

[ActionJunkie]

If you are so convinced I'm wrong stop replying (see this can go on forever?). I ended most of my posts with if you like him, play him (or If you enjoy it, enjoy it I think it's awful) but I think he's awful and I gave multiple reasons (die to everything ost importantly bolt and punishing fire, does nothing upon entering battlefield, can be revoked/amced, needs a full turn, doesn't evade). Some people kept replying and white knighting him. You've got people debating Soldier of Fortune in here for gods sake.

You are missing the point, dude. Moggcatcher works because of the consistent turn 1/2 Blood Moon/Magus/Chalice/Trinisphere that fill your opponents deck with blanks. You disrupt then drop a huge threat... who cares if it occasionally dies to one of the very few outs they have in their deck - you can follow up easily and they have to pray to the gods for the very few runner-runner removal/live cards. Koth/Raka/etc. are not going to get the job done fast enough whereas Moggcatcher can not only finish the game 1-2 turns faster (& increase board presence) but also has built in toolbox for your 75 cards (sideboard is key for Moggcatcher builds). Also, almost positive I wouldn't play Moggcatcher if it wasn't a Human - Cavern of Souls has improved this deck drastically both against counters and you WILL have tight land/mana situations where Cavern is required for your "huge threat." If you still don't see it, like most peeps have already recently said, go test yourself. Count me in the boat too who was very pleasantly surprised to see how well Moggcatcher actually performs.

Nice to see this thread is still going strong. I've stepped away from MTG for awhile but remember quite a bit of this Moggcatcher talk back when it started ~2 years ago. Anxious to test Flamespeaker + equipment :smile:.

[Blastoderm]

Yo guys,

Moggcatcher stompy 22nd at SCG this weekend!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69789

[Jelmerz77]

Yo guys,

Moggcatcher stompy 22nd at SCG this weekend!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69789

I would like to know the reason for that single Emrakul in the board. :)

[LeoCop 90]

I suppose you can side him in against show and tell, and against painter so that grindstone can't mill your deck.

[ActionJunkie]

Yo guys,

Moggcatcher stompy 22nd at SCG this weekend!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69789

Awesome!

Only two Caverns seems strange but I'm sure he tested more. I never had issues as four even let you put one on Goblins and one on Humans if need be.

[Jelmerz77]

Awesome!

Only two Caverns seems strange but I'm sure he tested more. I never had issues as four even let you put one on Goblins and one on Humans if need be.

I can only imagine it is not to be too vulnerable to Wasteland

[ZTurgeon]

I went 6-2-1 and got 22nd with the Moggcatcher Version at this weekends past SCG.

I didn't plan on writing a report or anything but enough questions have been asked of me so I figured I should put something out there. I didn't take notes so most of this is from my memory so it might be off slightly, but the meat of it is all there. Basically, it's what we already know. People are greedy and this deck punishes that, and if you untap with Moggcatcher, it is insanely hard to lose to anything but a Terminus.


Peter Repp – Manaless Dredge

After getting round 1 deck checked, I won the roll, and lead with a Chalice on 1. Sadly, he was Manaless Dredge and I didn’t have the tools to keep up.
In game 2 I end up pinning him out of his combo pieces with a trinisphere so he had to go on the bridge from below and ichorid plan. I get a Moggcatcher down and the next turn use it Murderous Redcap, which shot itself for 2, killing his bridges then picking off a narco. He scoops when I fetch up a Siege Gang and end his chances of getting through damage or ever having an active bridge again.
Game 3, I keep a literal unbeatable hand with a turn 0 leyline and a turn 1 trinisphere in case he has Reverent Silence but he just scoops to the turn 0 leyline.
(1-0)

Brent Gilmore – Miracles

Sorry, but the miracles and BUG decks all kinda blurred together. I know these wins came down to early blood moons pinning him on colors and chalices on 1 and starting the Kiki + Settler lock.
(2-0)

Brandon Pascal –Imperial Painter

I win the roll and lead with a turn 1 chalice. Thinking I am MUD, he slams down a turn 1 blood moon. My next play is to play a chrome mox exiling blood Moon and he knows things aren’t going to go well. I get a Moggcatcher online and he can’t win though the chalice before it starts raining Siege Gangs.
Game 2, he gets out a Painter and blasts all my now blue stuff and I miss some land drops. He beats me down to 7 before he finds the combo. I don’t think I can win in this board state so I scoop rather than show him emrakul and have him bring in rest in peace.
Game 3, I turn 1 a chalice and then land a jitte turn 2. He plays a ratchet bomb and blows it to kill the chalice, but a flamespeaker with a jitte makes quick work of him as his ensnaring bridge can never stop the equipped flamespeaker.
(3-0)

Josh Yonika - BUG Delver

Again, I don’t remember 100% of the specifics on the game other than him countering a lot of blood moons. I know in game 1 he stopped 3 blood moon effects and beat me with a goyf. I won game 2 with him having 3 unflipped Delvers in play. And he won game 3 with me being one mana short of -2ing Koth to play a Seige Gang and throw 2 goblins at his only 2 creatures and take over. Close games all around but sometimes they just have the tools to stop your powerful turn 1 plays.
(3-1)

Jonathan Morawski - RUG Delver

I lock him in game 1, and also in game 2 but he manages to draw 3 bolts to finish me off. In game 3 I end up keeping a slower hand but it has a turn 0 Leyline and a Turn 1 chalice. I reason that he can’t really do anything if the chalice resolves and when it does, he ends up putting up a fight. With them only having Goyfs, Delvers, Bolts and Mongooses as ways to win, he couldn’t put up an offense.
(4-1)

Reid Duke – Miracles

I walk up to the board and see I am playing one of the best players in the world and it’s one of my worst match ups. Fortunately, I get a bit lucky and catch him off guard in game 1. I get a blood moon down and Moggcatcher and start going hard at his colored sources. I am able to cut him off of blue quickly and dodge the terminus long enough for a Seige Gang to come down.
In game 2, another blood moon and natural settler keeps him off of white. He has manipulation but ends up never finding a plains before Koth comes down with a few other weenies to push through the needed damage.

Side note: He really is the nicest man in magic. He was asking me about the deck in a friendly manner, being very cordial about everything and was smiling when he was being chain stone rained. You can’t ask for more out of an opponent. But he still went beyond that and flagged down Andrew Shrout saying I should be featured on Camera. Shrout goes one further and puts me in a feature match and gives me a deck tech. You can see that at http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_monored_moggcatcher_.html
(5-1)

Erik Smith - Esper Deathblade

You can watch this one on the SCGLive Twitch channel archives at around the 30 hour and 30 minute mark. Basically it boils down to him thoughtseizing me after a mulligan and him finding his 3rd land the same turn I found a krenko which let him clique me and I never find another threat. Game 2 was me just locking him out and beating him to death with 2 flamespeakers (The announcers do correctly call me playing around dismember, which is something you need to remember when you are under blood moon). In game 3, I keep because of the density of threats and knowing that chalice on 1 and moggcatcher will win the game against anything he can do. But he tops the Lilly and I am a turn too late to start racing. Fun Fact: He said after the game that he did forget about the chalice when he played thoughtseize, and it ends up being the food for the deathrite.
There just is not a reasonable mono-red answer to True Name Nemesis. All I can say is “Dear Wizards. Please print a pyroclasm with a no damage prevention effect.”
(5-2)

Lloyd Kurth –Shardless BUG

We trade games one and two based on if he deals with blood moon. In game 3, neither of us do much. He ends up beating me down with some mediocre creatures like strix and deathrite, but I eventually stabilize behind a few crappy guys of my own and a Koth. The Strix is keeping Koth from making my mountains into pingers, but I eventually drop a siege gang. The next turn I -2 koth to have 12 mana and I throw my board at his head to kill him.
(6-2)

Thomas Smiley – American Delver

Neither of us are in a place to top 8 and 9th-32nd gets the same, so we just handshake it and lock both of us in the 9th-32nd pay bracket. I kinda wished I could have played it out just so I could jump into the top 16 lists, but let’s be real here.
(6-2-1)

Overall a pretty solid day. I wish I could have won that camera match but sometimes they draw the right card and you don’t. It happens. Still working on the list moving forward. Not sure exactly what to do right now. Rabblemaster seems promising and hopefully Khans brings some tools.

I know every legacy deck is improving as it gets more and more cards, but this one has one of the best chances to improve. Due to the low power level of some of the cards, they could be cut for better cards really quick while I don’t expect other decks to be replacing their threats any time soon.

And Yes, the Emrakul is for Show and Tell and Painter. I play online a lot and respect Painter. I think it’s greatly underplayed and having 1 sideboard spot be a marginal downgrade against show and tell for having a trump card in an otherwise even-ish match seems worth it to me.

As for the Caverns, I am still not sure of the right number. I am thinking it might be 3, but not having an actual red for blood moon does hurt, and with caverns, you are less likely to cast all the double red spells on time.

[LeoCop 90]

Congrats for the result ! I'll watch the feature match as soon as i can.

I actually like one emrakul in the side, because painter basically can not win against him without grave hate. Well, they can win against show and tell decks thanks to the beatdown plan together with 6+ REBs, but that plan is not realistic against us.

When i was testing a moggcatcher build similar to yours, 4 cavern of souls were too inconsistent, so i agree with playing two. I would play four cavern only on a mono-creature type deck, but you are casting double red humans as well as double red goblins and double red spells.... so i probably won't even go up to 3 caverns.

[Ace/Homebrew]

When i was testing a moggcatcher build similar to yours, 4 cavern of souls were too inconsistent, so i agree with playing two. I would play four cavern only on a mono-creature type deck, but you are casting double red humans as well as double red goblins and double red spells.... so i probably won't even go up to 3 caverns.

Congrats and thank you for the report!
How often did Cavern matter on Sunday? I agree 4 messes with the mana base too much, but I question if 2 is enough to see them when you need them... Are Caverns really necessary?

[ActionJunkie]

Congrats and thank you for the report!
How often did Cavern matter on Sunday? I agree 4 messes with the mana base too much, but I question if 2 is enough to see them when you need them... Are Caverns really necessary?

I started 4-0 @ a StarCity Open almost 2 years ago (then went 0-2-1) with Moggcatcher and Caverns was the MVP - think my tourny report is many pages back.

I get the argument that more basics could be better. But with 8 Moon effects and only having 2 creature types (3 if you run Revoker), the upside seems way better. I even remember beating a combo deck by putting Cavern on Construct and casting a Phyrexian Revoker that locked him out of his combo (he flashed me a counterspell after the game) until I could get in there for the win.

HOWEVER, this was all pre-Flamespeaker (the RR human) so that probably comes into play. Theorycraft away but no inclusion sounds like madness to me.

AND thanks, ZTurgeon, for the write-up!! Gratz again!

[ZTurgeon]

I started 4-0 @ a StarCity Open almost 2 years ago (then went 0-2-1) with Moggcatcher and Caverns was the MVP - think my tourny report is many pages back.

I get the argument that more basics could be better. But with 8 Moon effects and only having 2 creature types (3 if you run Revoker), the upside seems way better. I even remember beating a combo deck by putting Cavern on Construct and casting a Phyrexian Revoker that locked him out of his combo (he flashed me a counterspell after the game) until I could get in there for the win.

HOWEVER, this was all pre-Flamespeaker (the RR human) so that probably comes into play. Theorycraft away but no inclusion sounds like madness to me.

AND thanks, ZTurgeon, for the write-up!! Gratz again!

It's entirely on Flamespeaker. With 8 Double Red Humans and 5 Double Red Goblins, the caverns can be a bit of a liability at 4. Heck, 2 of the games during this event I needed to make a decision between the two as I sad with both in hand.

That said, when m15 comes on MTGO, I will be testing Rabblemaster for this reason. It's not as good of a card as Flamespeaker but it kills really quickly, especially in multiples and is better on the mana. Also, it has more of a possibility for the turn 1 slam against some slower decks.

[LeoCop 90]

Well, unfortunately including rabblemaster in place of flamespeaker doesn't address the fact that moggcatcher is still a human and still costs double red. If only moogcatcher was a goblin ... (but then it would be a bit too good)

[ActionJunkie]

Well, unfortunately including rabblemaster in place of flamespeaker doesn't address the fact that moggcatcher is still a human and still costs double red. If only moogcatcher was a goblin ... (but then it would be a bit too good)

Cavern should be on Human probably 80% of the time. Dropping an uncounterable Magus of the Moon is one of a handful of turn 1/2 plays (others being chalice/trinisphere/etc.) that makes or breaks this deck. So following up with an uncounterable Moggcatcher is a good thing. It's just gravy that the "goblin" stompy runs only two creature types so in those rare circumstances you can have an uncounterable goblin.

If red is really that much of an issue for your stompy deck, you probably aren't making good enough use of Blood Moon. Rabblemaster being a single red should be no problem at all... most people don't have issues with Koth at 2RR especially with many lists running Spirit Guides.

[adrieng]

I am starting to test the starcity version you played. I like the moggcatcher version.
I have some suggestion/question, did you test sandstone needle instead of city of traitors mainly for access to RR for flamespeaker/koth.
I am prefering a four of koth in the place of trinisphere ; is trinisphere really worth it ?
Why no pyrokinesis in side ? It seems to be one of the best card to me for the side. Are leyline of the void really worth it ?
Isn't grafdigegr's cage just a better card ?

[LeoCop 90]

Cavern should be on Human probably 80% of the time. Dropping an uncounterable Magus of the Moon is one of a handful of turn 1/2 plays (others being chalice/trinisphere/etc.) that makes or breaks this deck. So following up with an uncounterable Moggcatcher is a good thing. It's just gravy that the "goblin" stompy runs only two creature types so in those rare circumstances you can have an uncounterable goblin.

If red is really that much of an issue for your stompy deck, you probably aren't making good enough use of Blood Moon. Rabblemaster being a single red should be no problem at all... most people don't have issues with Koth at 2RR especially with many lists running Spirit Guides.

If you drop an uncounterable magus then moggcatcher will be counterable because cavern is a mountain. Beside this, i think it is a matter of consistency. Sometimes you will use spirit guides to power out turn one trinispheres. Sometimes you will be unable to hardcast siege-gang commander because you put a cavern on human to deploy a moggcatcher than then got killed. Sometimes you will put cavern on goblins to cast rabblemaster turn one then be unable to cast moggcatcher.

All in all, i value the possibility of being able to always cast my spells more than the raw power of cavern of souls. Cavern is a very good card and i would run 4 of it in a mono creature type deck, but if we are running humans and goblins and planeswalkers i think it is absolutely wrong to run 4 caverns, and i'm leaning to run 2 of them rather than 3.

[OCPunisher]

Question for those who have played more of this archetype than I: if I don't have access to a Goblin Settler, what is the best tribe for this archetype? Goblins, werewolves, dragons, etc?

[Jables237]

Question for those who have played more of this archetype than I: if I don't have access to a Goblin Settler, what is the best tribe for this archetype? Goblins, werewolves, dragons, etc?

Without goblins, I would say humans. Uncounterable Magus is a sweet play.

[OCPunisher]

So flamespeakers and kargans?

[ActionJunkie]

If you drop an uncounterable magus then moggcatcher will be counterable because cavern is a mountain. Beside this, i think it is a matter of consistency. Sometimes you will use spirit guides to power out turn one trinispheres. Sometimes you will be unable to hardcast siege-gang commander because you put a cavern on human to deploy a moggcatcher than then got killed. Sometimes you will put cavern on goblins to cast rabblemaster turn one then be unable to cast moggcatcher.

All in all, i value the possibility of being able to always cast my spells more than the raw power of cavern of souls. Cavern is a very good card and i would run 4 of it in a mono creature type deck, but if we are running humans and goblins and planeswalkers i think it is absolutely wrong to run 4 caverns, and i'm leaning to run 2 of them rather than 3.

Where's the issue? If you dropped a Blood Moon or Magus, you better be winning. There are narrow cases where they can get off a Lightning Bolt or Swords but you are playing high impact cards. So where's the issue with Cavern usually being Humans?

Yes, consistency is important. Guess I was just confused with some of your points about Moggcatcher being human and not having red for Goblins. 8 Blood Moons will lead you there :wink: (along with your ~8 mountains/chrome mox/etc.). There are definitely lists where 1-3 Caverns is correct especially with heavy Koth/PWs. And all the power to you if you like 2 - feel free to share findings but be ready for cordial/inquisitive arguments (which are a GOOD thing).


So flamespeakers and kargans?

Kargan maybe. Flamespeaker most likely as it's such high impact just hasn't been thoroughly tested. MTGdecks.net has a good list of mono-Red Stompy decks with evolution. If you go Humans, probably Werewolves. Check that website and look through mono-R Stompy decks of the last 1-3 years.

[ZTurgeon]

I am starting to test the starcity version you played. I like the moggcatcher version.
I have some suggestion/question, did you test sandstone needle instead of city of traitors mainly for access to RR for flamespeaker/koth.
I am prefering a four of koth in the place of trinisphere ; is trinisphere really worth it ?
Why no pyrokinesis in side ? It seems to be one of the best card to me for the side. Are leyline of the void really worth it ?
Isn't grafdigegr's cage just a better card ?

I haven't tried Sandstone Needle. I don't think lands that come into play tapped are where you want to be. More games are won off of using either Sol Land and Guide/Mox to power out a turn 1 Blood Moon than pretty much anything else. That and you can't turn 1 Chalice off of Needle.

Another Koth is the 76th card. I want to have another but I wouldn't cut another trinisphere. It took me 4 months of trying to cut the first and I am still not sure it's right. There are just some decks that can't beat it, and others that are so crippled by it they cannot correctly execute a game plan. Often you can hads capable of turn 1 Trinisphere or Blood Moon and that is obviously it's best place. Yes, it is worse later in the game, but it still heavily taxes decks trying to chain cantrip.

I have a love/hate relationship with pyrokinesis. It is either insane or you can't pitch cast it becuase of a lack of red cards. I wouldn't fault anyone for running it.

And Cage is a much better card, but not one we can use. It costs 1 and also shuts off Moggcatcher. Against 95% of graveyard decks, we want a chalice on 1, and that hurts cage, as well as it crippling our best card non-lock card.

[LeoCop 90]

Question for those who have played more of this archetype than I: if I don't have access to a Goblin Settler, what is the best tribe for this archetype? Goblins, werewolves, dragons, etc?

Well, it's not that you can't play goblins without goblin settler. He is not integral to the archetype. He is a nice tool to get rid of basic lands, and you can live the dream of going on the play turn 1 trinisphere, turn 2 moggcatcher, turn 3 search for settler blow up a land, turn 4 search for kiki-jiki and start copying settler every turn..... so that opponent never reach 3 mana to cast a spell. But honestly this still never happened to me, so i think you ca live without goblin settler.

[Blastoderm]

Well, it's not that you can't play goblins without goblin settler. He is not integral to the archetype. He is a nice tool to get rid of basic lands, and you can live the dream of going on the play turn 1 trinisphere, turn 2 moggcatcher, turn 3 search for settler blow up a land, turn 4 search for kiki-jiki and start copying settler every turn..... so that opponent never reach 3 mana to cast a spell. But honestly this still never happened to me, so i think you ca live without goblin settler.

I wouldn't play Goblin Settler even if I had it...maindeck my only moggcatcher target is siege-gang. I don't like having bad cards (kikijiki) in my opening hand.

[Zupponn]

Personally, I like having access to Tuktuk Scrapper in my main to deal with problrmatic artifacts game one. I've tried out Settler in the main and never wanted to search it up.

Kiki-Jiki has been good with FTKs. The ability to keep picking off an enemy creature every turn is pretty strong, which can give this deck huge game against decks like Death and Taxes and the Delver flavor of the month. If you don't have multiple FTKs main, I don't think Kiki-Jiki is worth it.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I've always thought Goblin Settler was in those builds for the relatively common match-up that is Miracles. Breaking those basics. Under that assumption, and Miracles is not really in your meta, don't run it.

[Zupponn]

I've always thought Goblin Settler was in those builds for the relatively common match-up that is Miracles. Breaking those basics. Under that assumption, and Miracles is not really in your meta, don't run it.

That would be about the best reason I can think of.

Miracles is an odd matchup for me. Sometimes I just roll it with DS, while other times I get crushed.

[LeoCop 90]

I'm surprised there is so much quiet in this thread after the printing of Goblin Rabblemaster. He is one of the best 2R creatures we ever had , and we were testing goblin builds anyway. He would certainly be a nice addition to the goblin stompy deck. Here are some thoughts of caleb durward about rabblemaster :

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-mastering-rabbles/


Does anyone here already play with rabble ?

[Sisyphos]

I have done some limited testing with Rabblemaster (8-10 BO3s against different decks), being that I commented on its possible use in Goblin Stompy in my respone to the set review of M15 by Mon, Goblin Chief.

So far, I have not been impressed, boarding it our quite frequently. Sure, landing it on T2 after a T1 Chalice or Moon sounds very nice and it closes the game out quite fast, but if your opponent can't handle the disruption, it doesn't really matter with what creature you attack. After getting a Moggchatcher online, I never searched for Rabblemaster over other targets like SCG, so its only use is when you draw it naturally. The casting cost is very nice, but comparing power-level, I have found Prophetic Flamespeaker to be so much better for the deck, that the more difficult casting cost of 1RR is more then balanced out.

When I get home, I will add the list I used.

Edit:
Here's what I tested:

2 Snow-covered mountain
2 cavern of souls
8 mountain
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb

4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
3 phyrexian revoker
4 prophetic flamespeaker
4 moggcatcher
2 Siege-gang-commander
3 goblin rabblemaster
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1 goblin settler
4 chalice of the void
3 chrome mox
4 blood moon
3 trinisphere

board
1 stingscourger
3 bonfire of the damned
2 umezawa's jitte
3 faerie macabre
2 ensnaring bridge
3 mindbreak trap
1 Tuk-tuk scrapper

Some Results I still remember (it's been a couple of weeks):
Wins: Rug Delver, Bug Delver, Elves, Junk
Losses: SneakShow, Shardless NO, UR Delver/Standstill-deck

[Zupponn]

I'm surprised there is so much quiet in this thread after the printing of Goblin Rabblemaster. He is one of the best 2R creatures we ever had , and we were testing goblin builds anyway. He would certainly be a nice addition to the goblin stompy deck. Here are some thoughts of caleb durward about rabblemaster :

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-mastering-rabbles/


Does anyone here already play with rabble ?
Honestly, I thought about it when the card was spoiled, but I didn't really take it seriously at the time. I'll have to look into it more.

Also, Gerry Thompson featured that 4-0 list as well:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29227_Daily-Digest-Goblin-Prison.html

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Honestly, I thought about it when the card was spoiled, but I didn't really take it seriously at the time. I'll have to look into it more.

Also, Gerry Thompson featured that 4-0 list as well:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29227_Daily-Digest-Goblin-Prison.htmlI've started trying him as a 2 of in modern jund (cutting the 4 drops) and if he's the only thing on the board the game just goes so quickly. He seems like a perfect fit in goblin builds.

[ivanpei]

The new red walker is super good in this deck. I'm currently going to try working on a Monored Superfriends deck between Koth Chandra and the new Red walker.

[CabalTherapy]

The new red walker is super good in this deck. I'm currently going to try working on a Monored Superfriends deck between Koth Chandra and the new Red walker.

True, this dude screams:"Play me with Chalice and Sphere, bro!"

[iamajellydonut]

The new red walker is super good in this deck.

He looks like an overcosted Koth with an inefficient creature kill ability. Remember when people used to run Chandra Nalaar just to kill Baneslayer Angel? This seems about as embarrassing.

[ivanpei]

It's much better than Chandra Nalaar. He's not quite Jace or Liliana level but he's the best red has unfortunately. Right now I'm thinking of trying this Superfriends shell to dodge removal. It tries to minimize creatures and run zero equips.

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus or the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

3 Dismember
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Flame Tongue Kavu

3 Chandra Pyromaster
3 Koth of the Hammer
4 Sarkhan Dragonspeaker

10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox

The deck tries to play control while dropping lock pieces. You throw our your lock pieces as early as possible then try and clear the early game drops like Delver or Deathrites with removal. What I like about Sarkhan is that he is a Removal Spell plus win condition in one card. He is just so good in this deck. Quite often one or two creatures that sneak through your lock Web will wreck you. A Delver or Goyf is just really hard to deal with early.

Rather than flat out aggro with a creature and equip build, I'm going to try a board control build where I sweep the weenies and drop walkers ftw. Also FTK can combo with Sarkhan in indestructible dragon form if there is nothing to fry. Or a Koth when you are land flooding after a swing with the 4/4.

[LeoCop 90]

In a mono planewalkers list ensnaring bridge would be very good. Problem is that sarkhan need to attack to do something. If only his emblem said "draw 3 more cards" instead of 2 it would have been the dream.... 4 cards in hand in your turn so you can attack with sarkhan and koth mountains..... 0 cards in hand at opponent's turn....

[Blastoderm]

None of the new cards look promising...rabblemaster doesn't do much vs tarmogoyf or batterskull.

I'm STILL using my original list from 2011 (the first Goblin list ever!):

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=734754&viewfull=1#post734754

Only change was -1 Koth +1 Tuktuk Scrapper in the main

My sb is the following:

2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Goblin Assault (for miracles)
3 Sudden Shock
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ensnaring Bridge

I recently went 3-1 with the deck. I lost to miracles but I played a more belcher style (turn 1 moggcatcher). I beat him 2-0 after we finished the match though. Goblin Assault was all-star!

I then had to grind out wins against mono black The Gate (no non basics) and Junk, UB decks with budget mana bases. I literally sided out blood moons EVERY MATCHUP (all 4) and trinisphere (in 3 matchups). Goes to show that the deck can pull out easy wins with the strong creatures (rakka mar is insane).

I'm still waiting to replace Hound of Griselbrand with something but he's been so sturdy at holding back Goyf, Batterskull and Liliana. Amazing in combat.

[Octopusman]

Can we have a pro vs con of Rabblemaster vs Assault, by match up if necessary? I'm curious.
[Edit] I realize chump block on Rabblemaster is a concern aside from being easier to remove but in context (under lock pieces) I'm still curious.

[Blastoderm]

Can we have a pro vs con of Rabblemaster vs Assault, by match up if necessary? I'm curious.
[Edit] I realize chump block on Rabblemaster is a concern aside from being easier to remove but in context (under lock pieces) I'm still curious.

Assault was there only for miracles. It also has "goblins attack each turn if able". It doesn't die to swords to plowshares or terminus like rabblemaster does.

[nodahero]

Has there been any consideration given to adding Imperial recruiter? It can fetch up Kiki-> kiki copy Recruiter-> fetch up Settler and then wreck mana bases all day.

[Vandalize]

I've been lurking this thread for a while, and after I playtested some versions (Pit Dragon, Moggcatcher, Equipment + Beaters), I've found any threat base to be enough. This deck wins on Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon.

90% of times, if you play 4 Trained Orgg you'll win the game, basically because our lock pieces are extremely good against the metagame.

Still, I don't like the Moggcatcher list that much. It's a heavy mana investment for a creature that requires another mana investment. SCG is good, Kiki is also good, but they're expensive. I'd rather give the beats with Rakdos Pit Dragon, Gathan Raiders, Moltensteel Dragon or even Thundermaw Hellkite, that can end the game in pretty much the same clock as the Moggcatcher, but without being fancy and requiring extra mana to work.

If you guys want the land destruction package, Avalanche Riders is also a good card to consider without a Moggcatcher shell.

[iamajellydonut]

The reason why Mogg Catcher is so good is because as fun and powerful as it is to drop a Trinisphere, Blood Moon, Chalice of the Void, and a fattie, the honest truth is that the consistency of that lock is lacking and there's a huge investment into such a plan making it very fragile. Not to mention that there are a good amount of decks that just don't give a shit. Moggcatcher is a solution to that problem. Not only can it end the game through beats if necessary, but if it untaps and fetches, you both have a fattie and recoup on a very good portion of your investment.

[The Crow's Eye]

Well, most of the beaters listed have the same color requirements as the Mogg Catcher. Kiki is a one-of, anyway.

[iamajellydonut]

Well, most of the beaters listed have the same color requirements as the Mogg Catcher.

That doesn't mean anything. The point is that you can play your Pit Dragon and go "hahaaa!" at the dome for a boatload of damage and maybe even another slap after that, but if they kill it at any point between twenty and one life, you're back to square one. Moggcatcher changes that. Moggcatcher changes that and spawns the meanest board that never stops kicking.

[Blastoderm]

Has there been any consideration given to adding Imperial recruiter? It can fetch up Kiki-> kiki copy Recruiter-> fetch up Settler and then wreck mana bases all day.

Blood moon does that for you. Recruiter is probably too slow.

[Blastoderm]

I've been lurking this thread for a while, and after I playtested some versions (Pit Dragon, Moggcatcher, Equipment + Beaters), I've found any threat base to be enough. This deck wins on Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon.

90% of times, if you play 4 Trained Orgg you'll win the game, basically because our lock pieces are extremely good against the metagame.

Still, I don't like the Moggcatcher list that much. It's a heavy mana investment for a creature that requires another mana investment. SCG is good, Kiki is also good, but they're expensive. I'd rather give the beats with Rakdos Pit Dragon, Gathan Raiders, Moltensteel Dragon or even Thundermaw Hellkite, that can end the game in pretty much the same clock as the Moggcatcher, but without being fancy and requiring extra mana to work.

If you guys want the land destruction package, Avalanche Riders is also a good card to consider without a Moggcatcher shell.

The point is that if your lock pieces fail (which they will occasionally due to people playing basics or just countering your stuff) you need creatures that can hold back goyfs and batterskull. Gathan Raiders doesn't do that, neither does Thundermaw Hellkite.

[ForlornEgoist]

It's much better than Chandra Nalaar. He's not quite Jace or Liliana level but he's the best red has unfortunately. Right now I'm thinking of trying this Superfriends shell to dodge removal. It tries to minimize creatures and run zero equips.

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus or the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

3 Dismember
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Flame Tongue Kavu

3 Chandra Pyromaster
3 Koth of the Hammer
4 Sarkhan Dragonspeaker

10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox

The deck tries to play control while dropping lock pieces. You throw our your lock pieces as early as possible then try and clear the early game drops like Delver or Deathrites with removal. What I like about Sarkhan is that he is a Removal Spell plus win condition in one card. He is just so good in this deck. Quite often one or two creatures that sneak through your lock Web will wreck you. A Delver or Goyf is just really hard to deal with early.

Rather than flat out aggro with a creature and equip build, I'm going to try a board control build where I sweep the weenies and drop walkers ftw. Also FTK can combo with Sarkhan in indestructible dragon form if there is nothing to fry. Or a Koth when you are land flooding after a swing with the 4/4.

I'm actually curious as to how this playstyle works out. DS has always had two obvious weaknesses: limited removal, limited gas. After our initial 7 we often enter topdeck mode and thus struggle to compete with decks that counter our early removal and then fall back on cantrips, not to mention we can easily get overwhelmed if enemy creatures are either stronger or have more utility than our own. I haven't touched DS in about 2 years as I felt like it was at a wall development-wise but at the time I was running an artifact build something to the effect of:


4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
6 Mountain

3 Mox Opal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
2 Batterskull
0-3 Umezawa's Jitte
0-2 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
1-2 Blood Moon

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Etched Champion
1-2 Akroma, Angel of Fury

I don't remember the exact build but this was rather close. The list could still possibly work given some minor tweaking, but it was very functional for me at the time. The artifact-focus meant I could take riskier T1 hands where I only had 1 or 2 Sol lands. Lodestone gave me a solid beater with an additional lock condition, and Etched Champion was essentially guaranteed his Metalcraft making him immune to nearly all removal (this was insanely powerful as BUG and Miracles weren't around).

I've actually considered dropping my modifications to Rock and returning to Stompy-based decks as Chalice and Moon effects are notably strong in the present meta.

Forlorn

[The Crow's Eye]

That doesn't mean anything. The point is that you can play your Pit Dragon and go "hahaaa!" at the dome for a boatload of damage and maybe even another slap after that, but if they kill it at any point between twenty and one life, you're back to square one. Moggcatcher changes that. Moggcatcher changes that and spawns the meanest board that never stops kicking.

My point was, if he can cast RPD, he can cast Moggcatcher.

[iamajellydonut]

Oh, fair enough.

[Jelmerz77]

Hi All,

Yesterday I took 4th place in a 35ish people tournament with the Goblin build below:

R1: Bye
R2: BUG (2-0)
R3: Jund (I think I saw Confidants, Hymn, Punishing en Goyfs) (2-1)
R4: Lands (1-2) WTF?!?!
R5: Storm (2-1)
R6: Sneaky Breach ID

T8:
1/4 UG Infect: (2-0)
1/2 Sneaky Breach (0-2)



8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
1 Goblin Settler
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard

3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Stingscourger
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Koth of the Hammer


All in all I like the deck, but I don't like Krenko, I am thinking about replacing him with Goblin King. We have a lot of ways to create mountains on the opposing side of the table.
I think i'm also replacing the Sword of Light and Shadow with a 3rd copy of Siege-Gang Commander.

[ZTurgeon]

Hi All,

Yesterday I took 4th place in a 35ish people tournament with the Goblin build below:

R1: Bye
R2: BUG (2-0)
R3: Jund (I think I saw Confidants, Hymn, Punishing en Goyfs) (2-1)
R4: Lands (1-2) WTF?!?!
R5: Storm (2-1)
R6: Sneaky Breach ID

T8:
1/4 UG Infect: (2-0)
1/2 Sneaky Breach (0-2)



8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
1 Goblin Settler
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard

3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Stingscourger
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Koth of the Hammer


All in all I like the deck, but I don't like Krenko, I am thinking about replacing him with Goblin King. We have a lot of ways to create mountains on the opposing side of the table.
I think i'm also replacing the Sword of Light and Shadow with a 3rd copy of Siege-Gang Commander.

You should swap out the flamespeakers for Rabblemasters. I was all about flamespeaker, and he was good, but rabblemaster just does so much more. The whole point of flamespeaker was to draw more gas because you need to drop so much in your opening moves, but rabblemaster will just win the game on his own as well as be a legitimate clock. Then ability to pump out guys, and adding a singleton piledriver has let me smash through true names and merfolk decks that I know I would have had issues with in the past.


Additionally, Krenko is the weakest card in the deck but he does have a purpose. Once he gets online, some decks can't beat him, or have to kump through hoops to do it. I'm hoping that Khans brings us a good goblin to put in his spot. I can see moving to a Goblin King as I have considered him in the past, especially now with Rabblemaster.

[Jelmerz77]

You should swap out the flamespeakers for Rabblemasters. I was all about flamespeaker, and he was good, but rabblemaster just does so much more. The whole point of flamespeaker was to draw more gas because you need to drop so much in your opening moves, but rabblemaster will just win the game on his own as well as be a legitimate clock. Then ability to pump out guys, and adding a singleton piledriver has let me smash through true names and merfolk decks that I know I would have had issues with in the past.


Additionally, Krenko is the weakest card in the deck but he does have a purpose. Once he gets online, some decks can't beat him, or have to kump through hoops to do it. I'm hoping that Khans brings us a good goblin to put in his spot. I can see moving to a Goblin King as I have considered him in the past, especially now with Rabblemaster.

I'll test out the Rabblemaster, I am hesitant because of the "must attack" for the other goblins. But I'll see if that will be an issue. If I cut the Flamespeakers for Rabblemasters then the need for equipment is less. That would free up space for the King and maybe a Piledriver. Cutting the Flamespeakers also eliminates the double red in the cost of the 3 drop issue.

[ZTurgeon]

I'll test out the Rabblemaster, I am hesitant because of the "must attack" for the other goblins. But I'll see if that will be an issue. If I cut the Flamespeakers for Rabblemasters then the need for equipment is less. That would free up space for the King and maybe a Piledriver. Cutting the Flamespeakers also eliminates the double red in the cost of the 3 drop issue. http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-daily-2014-09-08 has my current list. Hopefully it will be of some help.

[Jelmerz77]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-daily-2014-09-08 has my current list. Hopefully it will be of some help.

I will test the same deck minus -1 Jitte and 1 Krenko and plus 1 King and 1 SGC.

What is your thought behind the 1 Boartusk Liege in the SB? is it strickly for the +1/+1?

[ZTurgeon]

I will test the same deck minus -1 Jitte and 1 Krenko and plus 1 King and 1 SGC.

What is your thought behind the 1 Boartusk Liege in the SB? is it strickly for the +1/+1?

I took it from someone else in this thread. It's good at pushing your guys out of punishing fire without dying to it itself, and it is also good against elesh norn for the same reason. It's also a solid card to bring in when you just need extra cards, because it is never really bad, just inefficient.

[oliverpool]

I am still not getting much success with the latest version of this deck against miracles. First game, you might have a chance if you get a really good draw and they do not see terminus for the first few turns. But in the second game, in comes humility and with swords and terminus and counters... its pretty difficult to win.

[Jables237]

I am still not getting much success with the latest version of this deck against miracles. First game, you might have a chance if you get a really good draw and they do not see terminus for the first few turns. But in the second game, in comes humility and with swords and terminus and counters... its pretty difficult to win.

Miracles has been rough matchup for me as well. Koth is king. Chalice for 1 slows them down but does't crush them like other decks. Jace is also very hard to deal with. I was debating having 3 side board Uba Masks because I see a lot of Miracles at my LGS.

[Zupponn]

I'm not 100% sure about the sideboard, but this is probably what I would run at the moment:

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Moggcatcher
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Rakka Mar
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

11x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors

For the sideboard, I've been thinking about some number of Koths, Confusion in the Ranks, Anarchy, Pyrokinesis, and maybe a Sulfuric Vortex and an Emrakul.

There's also been a Goblin Settler sitting at a local store for the past couple of months. I'm still torn on whether or not I should pick it up.

I've also wanted to experiment with Fork or Reverberate vs Miracles. How awesome would it be to copy their Entreat the Angels? It's probably a terrible idea, but might be worth testing.

[Jelmerz77]

I'm not 100% sure about the sideboard, but this is probably what I would run at the moment:

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Moggcatcher
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Rakka Mar
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

11x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors

For the sideboard, I've been thinking about some number of Koths, Confusion in the Ranks, Anarchy, Pyrokinesis, and maybe a Sulfuric Vortex and an Emrakul.

There's also been a Goblin Settler sitting at a local store for the past couple of months. I'm still torn on whether or not I should pick it up.

I've also wanted to experiment with Fork or Reverberate vs Miracles. How awesome would it be to copy their Entreat the Angels? It's probably a terrible idea, but might be worth testing.


I'd cut 3 Mountain for 3 Cavern of Souls You are playing Humans and Goblins and I think that would be worth it.

[oliverpool]

I'd cut 3 Mountain for 3 Cavern of Souls You are playing Humans and Goblins and I think that would be worth it.

The other issue i am facing with my stompy deck is the red mana. As he has a few creatures with double red requirements, going down further on the mountains might not be a good idea. I alreayd reduced souls from 4 to 2 to increase my mountain count. I find a number of times that I had to mulligan my hand coz there was not enough red mana to cast my hand. The traitors can also help you or kill you. I have mana hands with magus and goblins and only tombs or traitors and one souls. Or something like that. Making it a very big risk. Take note that many red decks including the RUG or UR delvers also run Pyroclasm which kills all our board.

I am now running 2 Souls, 4 Tombs and 3 Traitors and 11 mountains. I been trying to fit goblin king and a few +1/+1 to all goblins but the double mana requirement is a problem that I have not solved.

[Blastoderm]

The other issue i am facing with my stompy deck is the red mana. As he has a few creatures with double red requirements, going down further on the mountains might not be a good idea. I alreayd reduced souls from 4 to 2 to increase my mountain count. I find a number of times that I had to mulligan my hand coz there was not enough red mana to cast my hand. The traitors can also help you or kill you. I have mana hands with magus and goblins and only tombs or traitors and one souls. Or something like that. Making it a very big risk. Take note that many red decks including the RUG or UR delvers also run Pyroclasm which kills all our board.

I am now running 2 Souls, 4 Tombs and 3 Traitors and 11 mountains. I been trying to fit goblin king and a few +1/+1 to all goblins but the double mana requirement is a problem that I have not solved.

Hound of Griselbrand is really underated. So is Rakka-Mar.

Rakka-Mar >>>>> Rabblemaster

[oliverpool]

Hound of Griselbrand is really underated. So is Rakka-Mar.

Rakka-Mar >>>>> Rabblemaster

Both Rakka and Hound are good. But they are 4 mana and need 2 red source. So cant really compare them to a 3 mana Rabblemaster which can come out in turn 1 or turn 2. Also Rakka and hound are human. So if you have them in your deck, you may need to reduce Mogg count in the deck? Maybe play a more human deck in stead if you play hound and rakka? Worth a test.

[ZTurgeon]

Hound of Griselbrand is really underated. So is Rakka-Mar.

Rakka-Mar >>>>> Rabblemaster

I can't agree with a word you said. Rakka-mar is a worse Moggcatcher. Anything will win when you lock them out, but when you don't the ability to get direct damage, artifact removal and seige gang is just so much better than a 3/1.

And Hound just isn't very good without support. He doesn't beat a goyf until he dies once, and he still dies to bolt when he comes back. Every time I tried him, I wished he was something else, unless I had equipment.

[Blastoderm]

I can't agree with a word you said. Rakka-mar is a worse Moggcatcher. Anything will win when you lock them out, but when you don't the ability to get direct damage, artifact removal and seige gang is just so much better than a 3/1.

And Hound just isn't very good without support. He doesn't beat a goyf until he dies once, and he still dies to bolt when he comes back. Every time I tried him, I wished he was something else, unless I had equipment.

Of course Rakka-Mar is worse than moggcatcher. I was saying that it was better than rabblemaster. And the point is to be able to win without a lock piece. Rakka-Mar has done that for me many times. If not dealt with quickly, you get a swarm of 3/1s

[ZTurgeon]

Of course Rakka-Mar is worse than moggcatcher. I was saying that it was better than rabblemaster. And the point is to be able to win without a lock piece. Rakka-Mar has done that for me many times. If not dealt with quickly, you get a swarm of 3/1s

But the issue is that Rabble and Rakka aren't compatible because of the wildly different costs. That second R makes her harder to cast, and her costing 4 just puts her up in the Instigator gang, Moggcater, and Moltensteel Dragon range. Try out rabble. He kills in 4 turns for 3 mana. That is the same rate as Hanweir Watchkeep. It's the fastest single 3 drop available in red.

[Zupponn]

I'd cut 3 Mountain for 3 Cavern of Souls You are playing Humans and Goblins and I think that would be worth it.

I wouldn't ever go below 10 mountains in this deck, no matter what the build. You need to be able to consistently land T1 Blood Moon if you have it and Cavern doesn't help with that. Plus I never want to risk drawing a Goblin if I have it on Human or drawing a Human if I have it on Goblin and I need it to produce red mana.

[Bobmans]

I wouldn't ever go below 10 mountains in this deck, no matter what the build. You need to be able to consistently land T1 Blood Moon if you have it and Cavern doesn't help with that. Plus I never want to risk drawing a Goblin if I have it on Human or drawing a Human if I have it on Goblin and I need it to produce red mana.

I agree that you will need to have maximum number of mountains in order to maintain consistancy. However Cavern of Souls is an important card to make sure stuff hits the board. It makes life so much easier. Cavern of SOuls is that card you wanna hold back untill you need to play it (Wasteland - Humans/Goblins?).
If you're talking about landing a three-drop on T1 then i would prefer to go for Cavern + Magus of the Moon any day over a Mountain + Blood Moon (unless against Lightning Bolt or decks that don't care about Moon effect's). I am not sure what line of play it is you have in mind, but going in with Mountain + 2x SSG or even 1xSSG + Chrome Mox is damn tricky. On top of that you don't need a mountain to pull that off. Also running into a FoW just costed 3-4 cards, which mostly means a scoop. Unless you know what you're up against i would never go in with that blind. Plus dropping a Ancient Tomb + SSG into a Blood Moon or a Trinisphere is always just so much better.

[MGB]

So new Sarkhan Vol seems like a nice addition to this deck. Removal and a 4/4 flier with haste? Not too bad.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/61/897/635450802065668538.jpeg

[Meekrab]

Much better than Koth, at least.

Also brings up the question of what rules apply to tapped Planeswalkers?

[Esper3k]

Much better than Koth, at least.

Also brings up the question of what rules apply to tapped Planeswalkers?

What do you mean what rules? It's the same thing as tapped artifacts, enchantments, Gideon Jura, etc.

[ZTurgeon]

Much better than Koth, at least.

Also brings up the question of what rules apply to tapped Planeswalkers?

I like the idea of him, but I don't think he's better than Koth. His removal option might make him more versatile, but he is much much worse against Miricles. If he gets swords'ed or terminused, he goes away. With Koth, the mountain goes away and Koth stays to throw another one next turn and still threaten his emblem.

[Scott]

Not strictly Dragon Stompy, but I tested him in that Mono Red Control list that had Ensnaring Bridge, Magma Jet, Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, etc and, at least in limited testing, I wanted him to be Chandra, Pyromaster or Koth of the Hammer more often than him. He wasn't bad, though, and I could see him fitting into the right list.

[Jelmerz77]

I like the idea of him, but I don't think he's better than Koth. His removal option might make him more versatile, but he is much much worse against Miricles. If he gets swords'ed or terminused, he goes away. With Koth, the mountain goes away and Koth stays to throw another one next turn and still threaten his emblem.

Exactly I have Koth in the sideboard for Controll match ups. The removal Controll plays is usually Swords and Terminus. In which case I rather sacrifice a Land to the holy cause of killing my opponent then a 5 mana Planeswalker (which I might add is also still probably a turn slower then Koth)

[Bobmans]

Not strictly Dragon Stompy, but I tested him in that Mono Red Control list...

Do you (or anyone else) happen to have a list or link to a possible red control list?

Although 5 mana for that Sarkhan is a bit slower then Koth, his ultimate is not to far out of reach and might break stalemate in the control match-up's. Might just run a 2/1 split between Koth/Sarkhan to see how it goes in reality.

[B4L4]

Has anyone tried to use a combo finish with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Lightning Crafter + Skirk Prospector or Goblin Bombardment ?

I always liked the 8 moon + chalice aspect of the deck, it's devastating in the right meta and Goblin Rabblemaster is a nice addition too (and this card can give a nice boost to Goblin Bombardment or Krenko, Mob Boss).
The worst part for me was to win via "fair" attack steps (actual dragons builds / werewolf builds). Moggcatcher is a nice step toward a more control / combo finish, it can fetch all the pieces of the 3 cards combo i mentioned above, but i still wonder if fetching SCG + Kiki isn't simply better in most cases.

[Scott]

Do you (or anyone else) happen to have a list or link to a possible red control list?

I was working from this list: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13668&iddeck=100433

[Bobmans]

I was working from this list: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13668&iddeck=100433

Thank you. I think that going in T1 with a Moon/3sphere/Chalice @1 is really strong. I have been brewing some lists to pull of Wildfire along with Crucible of Worlds. While testing i had Wurmcoil Engines, Inferno Titan, Steel Hellkites and other stuff, but the plainswalkers did provide better utility. Getting Wildfire to hit the board wasn't consistant enough so i decided to get a bunch of lower costed sweeper to protect the walkers like Pyroclasm, Volcanic Fallout and Mizzium Mortars[/cards]. In the end i never tested the last list, but i wonder where it would have gotten me. Might just slam it together and find out. Can't get the idea out of my head Trinisphere followed by a Wildfire, pfew.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I used that list - Forcefield (cause $$$) and + Crystal Ball (cause cheap and scry). I also had - Form of the Dragon, + Trinisphere in the board because I did not understand what Form was used against. Another 8-Moon Stompy enthusiast informed me it helps against stuff like Merfolk and Goblins.

List was pretty good. Main decking Ensnaring Bridge was awesome when I was paired against 2 Sneak and Show for the day.

I believe we are getting to a critical mass of sweeping removal and red planeswalkers where something similar to this list could work.

[LeoCop 90]

I would be enthusiast to run a control list with main deck bridge, but at the moment the only planeswalkers that can act as a win conditions are chandras and koth. Unfortunately sarkhan have no sinergy with bridge; even if you reach his ultimate, he cannot attack under a bridge.

[Captain Hammer]

Karn Liberated seems like a solid inclusion in a control D Stompy running a full playset of bridge. Bridge protects Karn and Karn gives a way to deal with noncreatures as well as a win condition.

[Jables237]

Karn Liberated seems like a solid inclusion in a control D Stompy running a full playset of bridge. Bridge protects Karn and Karn gives a way to deal with noncreatures as well as a win condition.

Karn seems way to expensive without a way to cheat him into play. If things are going right even sol lands get turned off by blood moon and magus.

[ComefromtheZoo]

I used that list - Forcefield (cause $$$) and + Crystal Ball (cause cheap and scry).


Forcefield is the shit. Somebody played that last week and a couple guys started clapping. GOd I love legacy.

[Bobmans]

A rough draft on a control list running Wildfire. My concerns are that it will be super grindy and takes loads of time before able to win. That's why i have taken out Chandra, Pyromaster out of the list. One card i have been testing was Chandra Ablaze and it was pretty awesome turning dead Simian Spirit Guides into Fireblasts. Her -2 is nice, especially when you have a Moon/3sphere lock on your opponent and he cant get rid of his card on hand. Also with Ensnaring Bridge it can still put fire on your opponent. And her ultimate is cool to. Just recast a Wildfire and a bunch of Seething Songs then empty your hand. Anyway, i liked her more then Pyromaster. Karn wasn't that hard to cast and was able to keep pressure on the opponent. Kinda like Liliana of the Veil, but better. His ultimate, however, is very situational and often not usable. One time i was able to exile an Emrakul, but my opponent playing Maze of Ith and was on the play i couldn't take that risk.
I understand the Ensnaring Bridges, but i don't like them to much. Sweepers might be plain better against most decks since the bridge is the only thing standing between them. Offcourse, 12post, MUD, Sneak, Reanimate, etc it's so much better.
I think that the new Sarkhan actually sucks in a control list. His +1 might be the only thing good unless under a bridge. His -3 is situational. But his ultimate is not to good. I don't see when you want to be casting 2/3 cards every turn in this list. In a aggro list with Moggcatcher it might be sooo much better.

Anyway, idea is simple. Open with a Moon/Sphere/Chalice, Sweep, Walker, Wildfire... When this goes there arent many decks that can recover and people just scoop when you hit the board with a t1 Trinisphere pretty often.


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
9 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song

3 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Pyroclasm
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Wildfire

3 Koth of the Hammer
2 Karn Liberated
1 Chandra Ablaze

SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Pillage
SB: 2 Cursed Totem
SB: 4 Magus of the Moon

[Jelmerz77]

No Offence but doesn't this start to deviate from the original topic (Red Stompy variants) and shouldn't this be in a Mono Red Controll topic in the development section?

Just my 2 cents

[Jelmerz77]

Has anyone tried to use a combo finish with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Lightning Crafter + Skirk Prospector or Goblin Bombardment ?

I always liked the 8 moon + chalice aspect of the deck, it's devastating in the right meta and Goblin Rabblemaster is a nice addition too (and this card can give a nice boost to Goblin Bombardment or Krenko, Mob Boss).
The worst part for me was to win via "fair" attack steps (actual dragons builds / werewolf builds). Moggcatcher is a nice step toward a more control / combo finish, it can fetch all the pieces of the 3 cards combo i mentioned above, but i still wonder if fetching SCG + Kiki isn't simply better in most cases.

I would stick to just fetching Kiki and SGC. All the other tutor objects are more to dig you out of a situation (or take advantage of one) but maybe that is just me.

[Blastoderm]

Has anyone tried to use a combo finish with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Lightning Crafter + Skirk Prospector or Goblin Bombardment ?

I always liked the 8 moon + chalice aspect of the deck, it's devastating in the right meta and Goblin Rabblemaster is a nice addition too (and this card can give a nice boost to Goblin Bombardment or Krenko, Mob Boss).
The worst part for me was to win via "fair" attack steps (actual dragons builds / werewolf builds). Moggcatcher is a nice step toward a more control / combo finish, it can fetch all the pieces of the 3 cards combo i mentioned above, but i still wonder if fetching SCG + Kiki isn't simply better in most cases.

Sounds god awful. Not even my Krenko EDH is that slow. Why would you dilute the maindeck with bad cards? If you're fetching a goblin every turn how is that any better than three siege gangs?

[Ace/Homebrew]

No Offence but doesn't this start to deviate from the original topic (Red Stompy variants) and shouldn't this be in a Mono Red Controll topic in the development section?

Just my 2 cents
I believe this is a topic worth discussing further (unless a Mod wants to make a supreme verdict for us)...

The control list Bobmans posted isn't any further from 'Dragon Stompy' than the Moggcatcher lists dominating the discussion now. They overlap the same cards (mana and lock pieces), only differing on the win-cons.

So do we want multiple X-Stompy threads scattered throughout Established and Developing (Dragon, Werewolf, Goblin, Control), or do we lump them all together as '8-Moon' Stompy and keep one thread?

[LeoCop 90]

One thread definitely. It's not like there are thousands people playing this deck, and separating each variant would make for semi-dead threads.

[Mr. Froggy]

I decided to build Werewolf Stompy as one of my legacy decks since my love for D&T is waning.

Was it a good choice?

I mean the creatures aren't expensive at all so I don’t mind if I have to switch to Goblin Stompt if it's the best version.

[Zupponn]

I've been starting to playtest Rabblemaster now and I love him to death. Finally there's a creature at 2R that isn't terrible.

I've been using my list from the previous page and I thought I'd post the sideboard that I'm using as well:

3x Anarchy
3x Confusion in the Ranks
2x Koth of the Hammer
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

[Blastoderm]

I decided to build Werewolf Stompy as one of my legacy decks since my love for D&T is waning.

Was it a good choice?

I mean the creatures aren't expensive at all so I don’t mind if I have to switch to Goblin Stompt if it's the best version.

The creatures are like 20 cents lol :P so as long as you have the staples (sol lands, 8 moons, chalice, trini...) you can test anything you want!

[Jelmerz77]

I've been starting to playtest Rabblemaster now and I love him to death. Finally there's a creature at 2R that isn't terrible.

I've been using my list from the previous page and I thought I'd post the sideboard that I'm using as well:

3x Anarchy
3x Confusion in the Ranks
2x Koth of the Hammer
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Did you pick up the Goblin Settler yet?

This is my current SB:

3x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Stingscourger
2x Sulfur Elemental
1x Boartusk Liege
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Koth of the Hammer

[uohoo]

Can someone explaime the reason for sb emrakul (only against painters??) And boartusk liege.

Enviado desde mi LG-P710 mediante Tapatalk

[Jelmerz77]

Can someone explaime the reason for sb emrakul (only against painters??) And boartusk liege.

Enviado desde mi LG-P710 mediante Tapatalk

Emrakul the Aeons Torn is for Sneaky Show and a nice trick vs Painter only that MU isn't bad with this deck.
Boartusk Liege is a lord that doesn't die to Firespout Pyroclasm etc etc

[Mr. Froggy]

The creatures are like 20 cents lol :P so as long as you have the staples (sol lands, 8 moons, chalice, trini...) you can test anything you want!

That's exactly what I thought. ;) I have all the staples so I should be good (would only need Kiki and Goblin Settler if I switch).

[ivanpei]

Not sure if my MUD 8 moon belongs here or the Metalworker thread. Anyway I'm running this list to great success, specifically to rape BUG.

4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
4 Lodestone
4 Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil
1 Sundering Titan
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Diamond

6 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Darksteel Citadel

The deck is basically MUD with moons. I've trimmed all the high casting cost stuff for moons because in this meta, resolved moon= gg. Doesn't matter if you can't cast your high cc stuff with a moon in play, if you resolve it you've won. It's also not too difficult to cast a Wurmcoil off basic mountains and a Grim Monolith or Metalworker.

Plan A is the Moon screw plan and Plan B is the MUD stompy plan. If the moons get countered or destroyed, the deck shifts to MUD monsters.*

Why not just play Dragon stompy? Because 3 cc and 4 cc Red creatures are terrible. Rabble master and mogg catcher? Cmon, they can't stand up to SFM, Tarmogoyf and Co.*

The issue I had with Dragon Stompy is that once plan A (Moon Plan) fails, the rest of the deck is too underpowered to put up a fight. By combining MUDs powerful base with moons, it's become a pretty strong wrecking ball.

[Barbed Blightning]

Not sure if my MUD 8 moon belongs here or the Metalworker thread. Anyway I'm running this list to great success, specifically to rape BUG.

4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
4 Lodestone
4 Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil
1 Sundering Titan
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Diamond

6 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Darksteel Citadel

The deck is basically MUD with moons. I've trimmed all the high casting cost stuff for moons because in this meta, resolved moon= gg. Doesn't matter if you can't cast your high cc stuff with a moon in play, if you resolve it you've won. It's also not too difficult to cast a Wurmcoil off basic mountains and a Grim Monolith or Metalworker.

Plan A is the Moon screw plan and Plan B is the MUD stompy plan. If the moons get countered or destroyed, the deck shifts to MUD monsters.*

Why not just play Dragon stompy? Because 3 cc and 4 cc Red creatures are terrible. Rabble master and mogg catcher? Cmon, they can't stand up to SFM, Tarmogoyf and Co.*

The issue I had with Dragon Stompy is that once plan A (Moon Plan) fails, the rest of the deck is too underpowered to put up a fight. By combining MUDs powerful base with moons, it's become a pretty strong wrecking ball.
Well, there were a lot of haters in the MUD thread, but I think this looks clutch as all hell. Personally I'd run more Wurmcoils over Forgemaster, like WCE is a beast.

[ivanpei]

Ya initially I wasn't running any Forgemaster and playing full set of Wurmcoil and some batterskulls. Unfortunately Wurmcoil was pretty hard to cast at 6 mana and batterskull while strong, was not a game over card.

What I like about Forgemaster is that if you untap with it or haste is with Greaves, you can power out Sundering Titan. If you have moon in play batterskull can win you the game same as Forgemaster but if you don't, Forgemaster into Sundering Titan is game over.

I've lost to jace or liliana on batterskull but I've never lost after a Sundering Titan of Forgemaster. If Forgemaster doesn't get sacked, another activation sacks Sundering Titan for another land d effect into a Lodestone golem is confirm game over. Batterskull just does not close games our as firmly as Forgemaster because you need to Durdle around and connect with batterskull 5 times to kill them. In that time they will find a way to deal with batterskull.

Forgemaster untap= gg. End of story.