[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Barbed Blightning]

Ya initially I wasn't running any Forgemaster and playing full set of Wurmcoil and some batterskulls. Unfortunately Wurmcoil was pretty hard to cast at 6 mana and batterskull while strong, was not a game over card.

What I like about Forgemaster is that if you untap with it or haste is with Greaves, you can power out Sundering Titan. If you have moon in play batterskull can win you the game same as Forgemaster but if you don't, Forgemaster into Sundering Titan is game over.

I've lost to jace or liliana on batterskull but I've never lost after a Sundering Titan of Forgemaster. If Forgemaster doesn't get sacked, another activation sacks Sundering Titan for another land d effect into a Lodestone golem is confirm game over. Batterskull just does not close games our as firmly as Forgemaster because you need to Durdle around and connect with batterskull 5 times to kill them. In that time they will find a way to deal with batterskull.

Forgemaster untap= gg. End of story.
Oh I know he's beastly, but I think Batterskull or Wurmcoil can still be pretty gg depending on matchup, especially if you are playing Moons and Chalices. I just think it is a bit too slow and easy to disrupt.

[ivanpei]

Oh I know he's beastly, but I think Batterskull or Wurmcoil can still be pretty gg depending on matchup, especially if you are playing Moons and Chalices. I just think it is a bit too slow and easy to disrupt.

Yes agree. Wurmcoil and batterskulls are gg against aggro like delver. Forgemaster more so against control and mid range. Really depends on the match up. But generally big robots are more gg than what red weenie have to offer at the moment.

If you want to go Forgemaster less, I would recommend cutting 4 Forgemaster, 1 titan, 3 Greaves for 2 batterskull, 1 Wurmcoil, 3 trinisphere and 2 revokers.

Either builds should be fine.

[Scott]

The most important point is that MUD rhymes with Blood, so it can be called MUD Moon.
Oh shit, just as I was writing that, I realized you go all Hogwarts and call it Mudblood.

[Mr. Froggy]

I tested Werewolf Stompy last night vs D&T and MBC; it was pretty rough, lol.

I noticed the deck is lacking in the late-game department but that was to be expected.

An active Lilly is hell, even with 4 Revoker main. I'd assume it's the same with most Planeswalkers?

Even if I lost 90% of my matches (in my defense it was the first time I played the deck and probably vs not the best match-ups) I found the deck so refreshing. And I found the deck so flavorful since I love Werewolves.

How are SBs built for this type of deck?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Koth of the Hammer is quite good against Jace and Lili!


How are SBs built for this type of deck?
http://www.tcdecks.net/tipo.php?archetype=Dragon%20Stompy&format=Legacy

I am not linking to TCDecks to be dismissive, but there are a variety of sideboarding strategies depending on your maindeck configuration. Unused lock pieces (usually 3sphere) and Revokers aren't in the main 60 sometimes, but are usually included in the 75.

Common themes are answers to graveyard strategies and Show and Tell strategies.

[Mr. Froggy]

Koth of the Hammer is quite good against Jace and Lili!

http://www.tcdecks.net/tipo.php?archetype=Dragon%20Stompy&format=Legacy

I am not linking to TCDecks to be dismissive, but there are a variety of sideboarding strategies depending on your maindeck configuration. Unused lock pieces (usually 3sphere) and Revokers aren't in the main 60 sometimes, but are usually included in the 75.

Common themes are answers to graveyard strategies and Show and Tell strategies.

I quite like MB 3Sphere but Revoker not so much. I think I might try out Koth.

EDIT: 666th post...

[LeoCop 90]

Hurry up and make a 667th one, or i wouldn't sleep calm tonight if i were you.

[Mr. Froggy]

Hurry up and make a 667th one, or i wouldn't sleep calm tonight if i were you.

Ain't got me worried anymore. ;)

On another note, I like Mondroden Shaman. She's strong.

[Zupponn]

Did you pick up the Goblin Settler yet?
No, but I don't think that it's going anywhere anytime soon. :tongue:

This is my current SB:

3x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Stingscourger
2x Sulfur Elemental
1x Boartusk Liege
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Koth of the Hammer
It seems like your sideboard is very similar to mine, with a few changes for personal preference. Bridge vs Confusion is something I've thought about a lot. It seems like it's a toss up between having a more permanent solution or having an answer to OmniTell. Plus, it's always funny to make them trade Emrakul for a goblin token.:laugh:

I'm currently not 100% sold on Sharpshooter myself, but maybe there's some merit to having one in the board. I just don't know what I would bring it in against.

It's also my personal belief that Anarchy is better than Sulfur Elemental. It just seems like there are more decks it's relevant against.

The Liege seems like a good card. Maybe I'll replace something in my board for one, but how common is EPlague these days anyways?

I've had few problems with dredge in my days with DS, but that was when I used to have 3 FTK main. Then they could just shoot themselves to remove bridges. Maybe I should add something in the side? Faerie Macabre seems good vs Reanimator because they're uncounterable, although Tormod's Crypt could work well too. But then the problem becomes what to take out.

Maybe nick the Sharpshooter and an Anarchy or Ratchet Bomb for a pair of Stingscourgers? These guys seem to do double duty vs both Sneak Show and graveyard based decks like Reanimator and Dredge.


Rabble master and mogg catcher? Cmon, they can't stand up to SFM, Tarmogoyf and Co.*
Then why do I keep beating them?



Also, I've been playing against a bunch of Miracles lately. The matchup seems even to favorable, but maybe I'm just getting lucky. Games vs them do seem to require a lot of skill though.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm currently not 100% sold on Sharpshooter myself, but maybe there's some merit to having one in the board. I just don't know what I would bring it in against.

Dredge, Elves, D+T, Goblins (Hah!)

Not sure that it would help, but I haven't tested it or the Goblin build.
Sharpshooter does the same thing against Dredge as FtK, just a turn slower. It also kills Ichorids and Narcomoebas. IF it is worth including (IF!), it'd be 1 in the sideboard.

[Mr. Froggy]

I played vs who ran Burn while I had Werewolf Stompy, it was fun. :)

He was able to kill me while I had him locked out with Chalice at 1 during one of our games. Double Fireblast and he had Eidolon out and all I drew werw 3CMC cards.. -_- was still awesome to see though :D

[ZTurgeon]

Dredge, Elves, D+T, Goblins (Hah!)

Not sure that it would help, but I haven't tested it or the Goblin build.
Sharpshooter does the same thing against Dredge as FtK, just a turn slower. It also kills Ichorids and Narcomoebas. IF it is worth including (IF!), it'd be 1 in the sideboard.

It comes in for Elves, D&T, Dredge, Storm, Belcher, Goblins, and decks that use Young Pyromancer. It's a good 1 of to have in the moggcatcher builds, and really shines against death and taxes, where it can force them board to stay still while you have a moggcatcher out. Many of my wins against D&T come down to these board stalls where they have a batterskull and are just using that and then sitting back with Mom's defending it. Then you EoT fetch up the Sharpshooter and on your upkeep try to pick off something, and when they use their mom to protect it, you search up Kiki, copy the sharpshooter and mow down their team. It's slow, but those matchups normally take forever unless you lock them out and quickly rabble them down.

[ZTurgeon]

No, but I don't think that it's going anywhere anytime soon. :tongue:

It seems like your sideboard is very similar to mine, with a few changes for personal preference. Bridge vs Confusion is something I've thought about a lot. It seems like it's a toss up between having a more permanent solution or having an answer to OmniTell. Plus, it's always funny to make them trade Emrakul for a goblin token.:laugh:

I'm currently not 100% sold on Sharpshooter myself, but maybe there's some merit to having one in the board. I just don't know what I would bring it in against.

It's also my personal belief that Anarchy is better than Sulfur Elemental. It just seems like there are more decks it's relevant against.

The Liege seems like a good card. Maybe I'll replace something in my board for one, but how common is EPlague these days anyways?

I've had few problems with dredge in my days with DS, but that was when I used to have 3 FTK main. Then they could just shoot themselves to remove bridges. Maybe I should add something in the side? Faerie Macabre seems good vs Reanimator because they're uncounterable, although Tormod's Crypt could work well too. But then the problem becomes what to take out.

Maybe nick the Sharpshooter and an Anarchy or Ratchet Bomb for a pair of Stingscourgers? These guys seem to do double duty vs both Sneak Show and graveyard based decks like Reanimator and Dredge.


Then why do I keep beating them?



Also, I've been playing against a bunch of Miracles lately. The matchup seems even to favorable, but maybe I'm just getting lucky. Games vs them do seem to require a lot of skill though.

If you are playing the Moggcatcher version, Murderous Redcap does the same work (better actually) that FTK did. Bridge triggers check to see if it is in the yard as the trigger resolves, so an active Moggcatcher means they can't combo off. You just instant speed up the Redcap, shoot himself, and then all the bridge triggers fizzle.

As for ensnaring bridge, it has been way better for me than any of the other "anti big dude" cards. Since it is so easily castable, you can both suprise sneak it in under a show and tell, or cast it early enough to matter against reanimator. That and it comes in for other matches like Elves, some TNN decks, and RUG delver. You would not believe how often RUG delver (which is admittedly a really good matchup already) can't beat a bridge. You spend the early game trying to push through lock peices, and if your successful, you win because they can't beat any of them. If you aren't sucessful, you have no hand and a bridge often means that they have 4 bolts to kill you.

[Zupponn]

As for ensnaring bridge, it has been way better for me than any of the other "anti big dude" cards. Since it is so easily castable, you can both suprise sneak it in under a show and tell, or cast it early enough to matter against reanimator. That and it comes in for other matches like Elves, some TNN decks, and RUG delver. You would not believe how often RUG delver (which is admittedly a really good matchup already) can't beat a bridge. You spend the early game trying to push through lock peices, and if your successful, you win because they can't beat any of them. If you aren't sucessful, you have no hand and a bridge often means that they have 4 bolts to kill you.

That's a good point. I'll probably have to pick some bridges up at some point then.

So the sideboard I'm thinking about now looks like this:

3x Anarchy
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Koth of the Hammer
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

I'm planning on running this near the end of the month for the Legacy portion of the Minneapolis SCG Open. I'm happy where I have my list right now (the maindeck is two pages back). It feels very strong and flexible and my comfort level with it is pretty high.

[ZTurgeon]

That's a good point. I'll probably have to pick some bridges up at some point then.

So the sideboard I'm thinking about now looks like this:

3x Anarchy
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Koth of the Hammer
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

I'm planning on running this near the end of the month for the Legacy portion of the Minneapolis SCG Open. I'm happy where I have my list right now (the maindeck is two pages back). It feels very strong and flexible and my comfort level with it is pretty high.

I would suggest dropping the Rakka Mar and a Seige Gang for a Settler, Krenko and a piledriver. The piledriver has been instrumental for me in breaking through both Merfolk, as well TNN. Krenko is just a searchable Rakka Mar in this deck. Both win the game when unchecked, but Krenko can be tutored and can sometimes come down and start out making 4-6 tokens that just lock up the game on the spot. And settler is probably my 2nd most searched for goblin (after kiki). You sometimes get the free trinisphere win with him but mostly he keeps people off of colors and is a huge part in beating miracles. If you keep them off of white via him and blood moon, then they can't get guys off the board and quickly run out of usable resources. It often reestablishes the lock, and lets you steal serve from people who got to go first and fetch up a basic.

[Zupponn]

I would suggest dropping the Rakka Mar and a Seige Gang for a Settler, Krenko and a piledriver.
I don't think that any of those cards are good in the deck. Settler is the closest to being playable, and every time I would go and search, I just want to get Siege-Gang over Settler.

The piledriver has been instrumental for me in breaking through both Merfolk, as well TNN.
Siege-Gang does just as good, if not a better job at beating TNN or Merfolk. He floods the board, shoots things, and makes blocking for the opponent useless. Piledriver also is terrible on his own, and both Siege-Gang and Rakka Mar are not. That is probably the first thing you have to look at when picking creatures for this deck.

Krenko is just a searchable Rakka Mar in this deck.
Again, Krenko is terrible on his own, and why would you ever want this guy over another Siege-Gang in this deck?

Both win the game when unchecked, but Krenko can be tutored and can sometimes come down and start out making 4-6 tokens that just lock up the game on the spot.
Siege-Gang can also win the game when left unchecked, can do it on his own, and leaves some goblin tokens around if they deal with him right away.

And settler is probably my 2nd most searched for goblin (after kiki).
The first should always be Siege-Gang Commander. The only time I ever search up Kiki-Jiki is if I run out of Siege-Gangs or I need an extra Tuktuk Scrapper.


I'm not as big of a stickler about the toolbox idea as Blastoderm is, but I feel that the reason we play Moggcatcher is because it can fetch up Siege-Gangs. You start diluting the plan too much and you're just slowing yourself down.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Siege-Gang does just as good, if not a better job at beating TNN or Merfolk. He floods the board, shoots things, and makes blocking for the opponent useless. Piledriver also is terrible on his own, and both Siege-Gang and Rakka Mar are not. That is probably the first thing you have to look at when picking creatures for this deck.


I've also found Goblin Piledriver to be rather sup-par. He takes the cake when you have board presence.. but you already have board presence, so win that way. I get that the protection from blue part is why some run him, but that's literally for fighting Merfolk. If they have 1-2 TNN, we were probably losing anyway. We didn't hinder their mana or lock them at all, and they got two of their best threats down. If merfolk is popular in your meta, bench him, otherwise draft a new player.

I personally have found Goblin Settler to be very, very good. Maybe it's play style difference? I tend to take a more controlling route, while it sounds like you go further into aggro.

I am still running a Krenko, Mob Boss and have found him to be slow. There are some relatively rare situations where Krenko, Mob Boss does more than Siege-Gang Commander, but all in all, I think I will be cutting him soon.

<Here is My list.> (http://www.essentialmagic.com/Decks/View.asp?ID=1014420)

1 Stingscourger mainboard because my LGS has 2 Sneak & Show players out of on average 9 players.

Edit: "Krenko, Mob Boss does more than Siege-Gang Commander" was originally, incorrectly: "Krenko, Mob Boss does more than Krenko, Mob Boss"

[Mr. Froggy]

I don't play Mogg Stompy but I wanted to ask something about Moggcatcher. Is she fast enough?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I don't play Mogg Stompy but I wanted to ask something about Moggcatcher. Is she fast enough?
To do what? :eyebrow:

[Mr. Froggy]

Just in general.

EDIT: My friend has Mogg Stompy (I have Werewolf Stompy) and he let me try it out vs a couple decks a while I thought it was extremely powerful I found it a bit slow.

[ZTurgeon]

Just in general.

EDIT: My friend has Mogg Stompy (I have Werewolf Stompy) and he let me try it out vs a couple decks a while I thought it was extremely powerful I found it a bit slow.

The deck isn't meant to be fast (though rabblemaster draws can kill on turn 3 if needed). The moggcatcher version does 2 two things well: Lockdown and inevitability. Plan 1 is to lock them out of playing cards, and while plan 2 is slow, it doesn't need to be fast. In my list you have 4 Rabbles, 4 Moggcatchers, 2 Seige Gangs, and 1 Krenko that can just take over the game and slowly win if not dealt with. It is almost impossible to beat Moggcatcher if it isn't removed and you are playing even a remotely fair game. Any of the tarmogoyf decks just fold to an active moggcatcher, even if it is slow. You just search up a gang and then block with the tokens, then search up a kiki to make sure they can never break through your tokens.


Basically, if you untap with a moggcatcher, it doesn't matter how slow you go, you will win 90% of the time.

[Mr. Froggy]

The deck isn't meant to be fast (though rabblemaster draws can kill on turn 3 if needed). The moggcatcher version does 2 two things well: Lockdown and inevitability. Plan 1 is to lock them out of playing cards, and while plan 2 is slow, it doesn't need to be fast. In my list you have 4 Rabbles, 4 Moggcatchers, 2 Seige Gangs, and 1 Krenko that can just take over the game and slowly win if not dealt with. It is almost impossible to beat Moggcatcher if it isn't removed and you are playing even a remotely fair game. Any of the tarmogoyf decks just fold to an active moggcatcher, even if it is slow. You just search up a gang and then block with the tokens, then search up a kiki to make sure they can never break through your tokens.

Basically, if you untap with a moggcatcher, it doesn't matter how slow you go, you will win 90% of the time.

Yeah I noticed that too, Moggcatcher was a must answer.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Basically, if you untap with a Moggcatcher, it doesn't matter how slow you go, you will win 90% of the time.

With the exception of game 1 against Sneak & Show, admittedly a bad matchup, where post Show and Tell your fresh Moggcatcher just can't quite answer Emrakul, the Aeon Torn-- To the sideboard Stingscourger!

Sorry, I have more than a couple memories of this happening.

Otherwise what you're saying is basically fact.

[Chatto]

I am considering to jump on the bandwagon called Goblin Stompy. Question: I am under the consumption that GS plays a tat different than Dragon Stompy. Is it more resillient? More consistent? I understand why people won't break the threat into two, but I was wondering if an seperate threat would do the different game-strategies any good.

Sorry if I stated the obvious, I'm just curious.

[Ace/Homebrew]

It's not like there are thousands people playing this deck, and separating each variant would make for semi-dead threads.
It doesn't matter if your win-con is Simian Spirit Guide. Your strategy is to play lock pieces.

Consider if Sneak and Show played Progenitus over Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The strategy remains the same even though the win-con is different.

[Mr. Froggy]

There's one thing though, aren't you guys afraid of overextending? Because while Moggcatcher is super strong, she needs help to win.

Its something I noticed trying it out.

[Ace/Homebrew]

aren't you guys afraid of overextending?
Into what? :eyebrow:



I don't mean to be glib with my short answers, but I want to demonstrate that your questions aren't entirely relevant to this deck.
For example:

Is she fast enough?

The deck isn't meant to be fast.

So let's assume I stick a lock piece my opponent can't deal with. I follow it up with a threat (let's say Moggcatcher). Do I not fetch up goblins in case they can get around the lock and wipe the board?
Now let's assume that I cannot stick a lock piece and my only play is to throw out a threat (let's say Moggcatcher). Do I not fetch up goblins in case they can wipe the board?


If you untap with Moggcatcher, you fetch up SGC. If you fear a boardwipe other than Terminus, you can just push your luck with your current board. If you feel the way is clear, I'd push my advantage until I win or my opponent scoops his cards!

[Chatto]

It doesn't matter if your win-con is Simian Spirit Guide. Your strategy is to play lock pieces.

Consider if Sneak and Show played Progenitus over Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The strategy remains the same even though the win-con is different.

Thank you for the clarification! :smile:

[ZTurgeon]

So let's assume I stick a lock piece my opponent can't deal with. I follow it up with a threat (let's say Moggcatcher). Do I not fetch up goblins in case they can get around the lock and wipe the board?
Now let's assume that I cannot stick a lock piece and my only play is to throw out a threat (let's say Moggcatcher). Do I not fetch up goblins in case they can wipe the board?


If you untap with Moggcatcher, you fetch up SGC. If you fear a boardwipe other than Terminus, you can just push your luck with your current board. If you feel the way is clear, I'd push my advantage until I win or my opponent scoops his cards!

It depends on the deck. You certainly always search something up. The three basic routes are:


1) Go get goblin settler, blow up a land, and then get kiki-jiki and continue to blow up lands while using moggcatcher to apply pressure. This is for decks like miracles where the lock is tenuous at best and it's possible that they just terminus it all away and stabilize. This line says that if they get out of the lock, they are down a few lands for it.


2) Go get rabblemaster, and then next turn get kiki and copy a rabblemaster. This is your quickest kill and used when you need to kill someone before they escape (like sneak and show). It is fragile and doesn't offer much besides damage but it will deal 16 the turn after your first search.


3) Go and get seige-gang and then use a kiki to copy it until your opponent concedes. Attrition decks like shardless and such simply can't beat this. This method is also great against batterskull as it lets you throw you blocked token so they don't gain life.


Also, once you have a moggcatcher down, unless you need a very specific piece, you pretty much activate him every turn. Your just losing mana, which is no big deal because every time he taps, it's like drawing a card. Best to have the best hand incase things go to crap.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Your just losing mana, which is no big deal because every time he taps, it's like drawing a card. Best to have the best hand incase things go to crap.

Or rather:

It's like drawing a card, during your opponents turn, giving it flash, and casting it off of a Cavern of Souls for :2::r:. So yea, it's better than that.

[Valtrix]

This might sound like a strange suggestion, but has anybody tried adding Punishing Fire and Grove of the Burnwillows to this deck? I find that the combo just destroys a lot in legacy right now and can almost single handedly win against certain decks. I think any deck that is running red and can support grove should run it, or at least highly consider running it. This deck definitely fits the bill. The obvious concern is "But blood moon!" Well, this shuts of your punishing fire recursion, but is a 2cc shock unplayable? Honestly, probably not. Especially since this deck doesn't even want to run 1cc at all because of chalice of the void. I think the deck could really appreciate some lower CC cards. This deck could probably actually use some interaction on the board.

Grove is basically a wastelandable mountain, but that seems like a low price to pay. The upsides feel pretty huge since the deck would have access to a very powerful engine for if the blood moon plan was not found/resolved/or useful.

[Jelmerz77]

This might sound like a strange suggestion, but has anybody tried adding Punishing Fire and Grove of the Burnwillows to this deck? I find that the combo just destroys a lot in legacy right now and can almost single handedly win against certain decks. I think any deck that is running red and can support grove should run it, or at least highly consider running it. This deck definitely fits the bill. The obvious concern is "But blood moon!" Well, this shuts of your punishing fire recursion, but is a 2cc shock unplayable? Honestly, probably not. Especially since this deck doesn't even want to run 1cc at all because of chalice of the void. I think the deck could really appreciate some lower CC cards. This deck could probably actually use some interaction on the board.

Grove is basically a wastelandable mountain, but that seems like a low price to pay. The upsides feel pretty huge since the deck would have access to a very powerful engine for if the blood moon plan was not found/resolved/or useful.

And you never resolve a Chalice of the Void on 2? Legacy is all about Greedy manabases and efficient costed spells. Mocht deck consist of 1 and 2 mana costed spells. This deck plays a manacurve that starts at 3 for a reason. Having dead cards in hand because you can't play cards due to your own Chalice of the Void is not the route you want to go I think.

[Valtrix]

Also, not being able to play cards at all because your curve starts at 3 is also not a way to go I think. Just because there are situations where you might want to chalice at two doesn't mean you should not even consider running 2cmc spells. I can think of very few commonly played decks where you'd ever want to chalice at two before chalice at one. And, if you have a chalice at one and chalice at two I hope that you just have that game locked out and are going to win anyway.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Also, not being able to play cards at all because your curve starts at 3 is also not a way to go I think.
Phyrexian Revoker is commonly played and is CMC2.

It's not so much that CMC2 spells aren't ideal in Moon Stompy (although they aren't ideal), it's more that a 2 mana Shock isn't really worth it considering the upside to Punishing Fire is 'turned off' if the deck actually resolves it's signature card. It also weakens an already shakey mana base.

Do you run a version of Moon Stompy? Want to try out your suggestion and report back?

[Zupponn]

I really don't care about whether or not Punishing Fire fits in the deck. Grove of the Burnwillows doesn't. I'm a firm believer in having no less than 10 Mountains in our maindeck (I prefer 11 myself) and that manabse is still fairly shaky. There's no reason to open ourselves up to more land disruption.

[Mr. Froggy]

I really don't care about whether or not Punishing Fire fits in the deck. Grove of the Burnwillows doesn't. I'm a firm believer in having no less than 10 Mountains in our maindeck (I prefer 11 myself) and that manabse is still fairly shaky. There's no reason to open ourselves up to more land disruption.

I feel the same way about Grove. Although I run only 8 Mountains and find i have plenty.

[Jelmerz77]

I feel the same way about Grove. Although I run only 8 Mountains and find i have plenty.

I run also run 8 Mountains atm and haven't ran into trouble yet.

[itrytostorm]

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Mountain
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Settler
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Moggcatcher
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 2 Koth of the Hammer
SB: 3 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Stingscourger
SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper


My current list. No mana issues at all. I have thought about 4 Leyline, though.

[Redkid43]

I've been bouncing between posts here as well as various deck aggregator sites for ideas to help me build Dragon Stompy. I've been back and forth on this deck for a while and I have some opinions about the various builds.

What got me interested in the deck are the werewolves because of how easy it is to turn them on under a lock piece. Traditional Hellbent decks really require you to jump through hoops to get your creatures anywhere close to be decent...but once they are turned on, they're just big beats. Goblin Stompy piqued my interest after seeing Rabblemaster making waves and beating up Miracles. However, the big problem for me is Moggcatcher and his obnoxious mana investment each turn AND initially. My experience with him has been okay, there have been games were untapping with him was a sure fire route to victory, but 7 out of 10 times he ate a removal spell. To me, catcher is the engine of the deck, and without him, the deck just falls apart. He adds the late game push Stompy needs, but at what cost?

This is where the Wolves come in. They don't require you to dump your hand or crazy mana taxing...you just can sit back on your Blood Moons and Chalices and you have 3 mana 5/5s for no other costs. No mana investments, no other bullshit.

Here's my list:

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Mountain

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Chrome Mox

2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Koth of the Hammer

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Hanweir Watchkeep
3 Instigator Gang
2 Mondronen Shaman
1 Avalanche Rider


So some explanations. First is Mondronen Shaman over Rakka Mar. Mar has been good, no doubt. But agin, her mana investment of 2rr was somewhat difficult for me to grasp. And whenever she came up, I was already in a position to win that she was actually a dead draw.

Think of her like this. She's a 2RRR creature that enters the battlefield tapped and you get a 3/1. It's good, not great.

Mondronen Shaman, when flipped, actively punishes basic lands and attempts to break lock pieces by shooting them for 2. She helps push the last points of damage in and can attack for 5. I see lots of lists throwing her away for Mar and more Gangs, but I think she's worth it.

Mortars is good, cheap removal that kills most things in the format outside of huge monsters. Dismember is the other option, but 4 life is steep when coupled with Ancient Tomb.

Ignoring my diatribe about 2RR costs, I really love Koth here. With less threats and spells, I think 2-3 is the right number.

Finally, I really enjoy Stone Rain effects here. I've seen some lists actually playing the card, but it can get countered and you'll waste a turn trying to cast it. So I added Avalanche Rider; with Cavern it's uncounterable and breaks any errant basics running around under Blood Moon.

I have no idea for a sideboard as of yet. I do feel as though I will probably dedicate a few spots to Show and Tell decks with Ashen Rider and the like. Everytime I sided in Boil it was awesome, and no one EVER sees Fortune Thief at all.

Thoughts?

[Zupponn]

However, the big problem for me is Moggcatcher and his obnoxious mana investment each turn AND initially.
I've always felt that 3 mana Siege-Gang with flash was insane, but that's your opinion.

My experience with him has been okay, there have been games were untapping with him was a sure fire route to victory, but 7 out of 10 times he ate a removal spell.
Now think about this: Every time Moggcatcher ate a removal spell, whatever else you could have played eats that removal spell too. Dies to removal is not a valid point, especially when Watchkeep and flipped cards die to Abrupt Decay.

This is where the Wolves come in. They don't require you to dump your hand or crazy mana taxing...you just can sit back on your Blood Moons and Chalices and you have 3 mana 5/5s for no other costs. No mana investments, no other bullshit.
Except that the bullshit is you time walking yourself to actually make them good. Otherwise you're playing a bunch of subpar threats. Also, if you already have a lock piece out, the threat you produce doesn't really matter. The important thing is how those threats work without lock pieces, which is why cards like Rakka Mar and Moggcatcher are popular.

So some explanations. First is Mondronen Shaman over Rakka Mar. Mar has been good, no doubt. But agin, her mana investment of 2rr was somewhat difficult for me to grasp. And whenever she came up, I was already in a position to win that she was actually a dead draw.

Think of her like this. She's a 2RRR creature that enters the battlefield tapped and you get a 3/1. It's good, not great.

Mondronen Shaman, when flipped, actively punishes basic lands and attempts to break lock pieces by shooting them for 2. She helps push the last points of damage in and can attack for 5. I see lots of lists throwing her away for Mar and more Gangs, but I think she's worth it.
Again, we come to the issue of which is better on its own. If Rakka Mar makes one token, she's better than the Shaman.

Mortars is good, cheap removal that kills most things in the format outside of huge monsters. Dismember is the other option, but 4 life is steep when coupled with Ancient Tomb.
The issues I have with Mortars is that it gets countered by Chalice at 2 and Flametongue Kavu is just better unless you're Overloading it (how often is this even a possibility?). Even then, FTK was only good part of the time, with the large amount of things that don't die to 4 targeted damage in the format.

Ignoring my diatribe about 2RR costs, I really love Koth here. With less threats and spells, I think 2-3 is the right number.
Koth only really seems good against control decks. He can't protect himself and is terrible when you're behind on the board. Against a threat light deck like Miracles though, his ultimate is a real thing.

[Mr. Froggy]

I guess it all comes down to playstyle? I find the Werewolves do a great job of finishing off my opponent same as Moggcatcher fetching answers to problem cards.

EDIT: Other than Watchkeep that can't attack, lets not forget the other Wolves don't have Defender so they can push through a couple points of damage while not being flipped.

[Redkid43]

What's the major consensus on Chandra, Pyromaster?

[Ace/Homebrew]

What's the major consensus on Chandra, Pyromaster?

I don't believe there is one...
My experience and testing shows she is playable, but not as a 4-of. She's better in controlling builds that main-deck Ensnaring Bridge.

[Blastoderm]

I guess it all comes down to playstyle? I find the Werewolves do a great job of finishing off my opponent same as Moggcatcher fetching answers to problem cards.

EDIT: Other than Watchkeep that can't attack, lets not forget the other Wolves don't have Defender so they can push through a couple points of damage while not being flipped.

Werewolves lose to batterskull and jitte.


And goyf.




And liliana.



And jace.



And true-name nemesis.

[Mr. Froggy]

Werewolves lose to batterskull and jitte.

And goyf.

And liliana.

And jace.

And true-name nemesis.

I tried Gobz Stompy at first, and I died to all those also. (Was my friends deck which got me interested in tge archetype)

[Blastoderm]

I tried Gobz Stompy at first, and I died to all those also. (Was my friends deck which got me interested in tge archetype)

How do you lose to liliana or jace by casting a sgc?

[ZTurgeon]

I tried Gobz Stompy at first, and I died to all those also. (Was my friends deck which got me interested in tge archetype)

The actually strength of the goblin build is that it is good against those type of cards. Jace is actively bad against moggcatcher version. He's bad against an active moggcatcher, any siege gang, any rabblemaster, and redcap.

[Mr. Froggy]

How do you lose to liliana or jace by casting a sgc?

Because he only ran 2 and I would never draw them.

Sure I would cast Moggcatcher and I would think things would be all fine and dandy until she would either eat removal or be bounced.

[Blastoderm]

Because he only ran 2 and I would never draw them.

Sure I would cast Moggcatcher and I would think things would be all fine and dandy until she would either eat removal or be bounced.

Same applies to werewolves but they can be removed later. You need creatures that do something if they stick for 1 turn. Rakka mar is the same thing... she does wonders vs planeswalkers. Also avoid playing garbage toolbox stuff like kikijiki and goblin settler. I'm considering playing 4 sgc, it's so good.

[Jables237]

Honestly I don't think the decks problem is with what creature package we use. I feel 90% of our wins come from landing the correct lock piece against the correct deck. There are numerous games where Hill Giants could have got me there just fine. Card disadvantage/card quality seems to be our biggest weak point. We invest so much into our lock pieces that losing them hurts and we generally can't come back from that. As the game progresses our draws are terrible. We don't have many good options for filtering our card quality. I started running 3 magma jets main deck and it helps but 3 cards with scry 2 will never compete with brainstorm.

[itrytostorm]

Same applies to werewolves but they can be removed later. You need creatures that do something if they stick for 1 turn. Rakka mar is the same thing... she does wonders vs planeswalkers. Also avoid playing garbage toolbox stuff like kikijiki and goblin settler. I'm considering playing 4 sgc, it's so good.


Kiki and settler have been amazing to me. They combo for the insta-win. Turn 1 Trini, turn 2 catcher, turn 3 search settler, turn 4 search Kiki. They never get around the Trini lock.

[ZTurgeon]

Kiki and settler have been amazing to me. They combo for the insta-win. Turn 1 Trini, turn 2 catcher, turn 3 search settler, turn 4 search Kiki. They never get around the Trini lock.

They are great for everyone except the person who said that, who seems to be heavily against them for some reason. I have had more instant concessions to getting the settler than any other card. It is the best card to grab against miracles and it guarantees the blood moon lock stays intact.

[Zupponn]

I haven't been too impressed with Settler, but do run Kiki-Jiki, Redcap, and Scrapper main. I feel that it would also be incorrect to not have at least one Stingscourger in the side for Sneak Show while I also run a Sharpshooter because it might come in handy sometime. Pretty much any other toolbox creature like Krenko or Piledriver is pure garbage.

[Mr. Froggy]

I played Dragon Stompy at my LGS weekly Legacy, to a rather unspectacular result. I only lost because I was manascrewed, being stuck on only 2 lands most of the time. The games I drew mana I felt great.

I noticed something though, it doesn't really matter what win conditions you use once you lock out the game.

The Werewolves did their job, trust me.

Also I wouldn't play out my guys without some piece of lock on the board. Once I had one down, the deck did what it was supposed to.

[ZTurgeon]

I played Dragon Stompy at my LGS weekly Legacy, to a rather unspectacular result. I only lost because I was manascrewed, being stuck on only 2 lands most of the time. The games I drew mana I felt great.

I noticed something though, it doesn't really matter what win conditions you use once you lock out the game.

The Werewolves did their job, trust me.

Also I wouldn't play out my guys without some piece of lock on the board. Once I had one down, the deck did what it was supposed to.

If you have a lock, anything wins. If you don't, would you rather have a toolbox of stuff to get and cards that make multiple guys, or conditional juggernauts with that condition being that your opponent doesn't play cards in legacy without you hindering them?

[Mr. Froggy]

If you have a lock, anything wins. If you don't, would you rather have a toolbox of stuff to get and cards that make multiple guys, or conditional juggernauts with that condition being that your opponent doesn't play cards in legacy without you hindering them?

Thats the thing though, I tried Goblin Stompy too, and if I just played Moggcatcher out like that, she just died or got countered or removed. The only goblin I was happy to play was the one-of Scrapper he had MD because it killed a Batterskull. The only real thing I like about Moggcatcher is her ability to tutor once locked out but after that happens there's no difference in what win cons you use because your opponent can't do anything.

If the deck doesn't lay down lock pieces its much harder to get rolling.

[MaximumC]

Thats the thing though, I tried Goblin Stompy too, and if I just played Moggcatcher out like that, she just died or got countered or removed. The only goblin I was happy to play was the one-of Scrapper he had MD because it killed a Batterskull. The only real thing I like about Moggcatcher is her ability to tutor once locked out but after that happens there's no difference in what win cons you use because your opponent can't do anything.

If the deck doesn't lay down lock pieces its much harder to get rolling.

To be clear, your objection isn't so much that Moggcatcher eats removal, but that it eats removal before it does anything relevant, right?

[Mr. Froggy]

To be clear, your objection isn't so much that Moggcatcher eats removal, but that it eats removal before it does anything relevant, right?

Yeah exactly that.

[ZTurgeon]

Yeah exactly that.

This doesn't make sense to me. The Werewolves have zero board effect if they eat removal as well. If anything, something like a siege gang would be better because it takes specific removal to be 1 for 1ed.

If your Instigator Gang flips, you give them 3 turns to find removal. If they do you need another kill piece.

If you untap with Moggcatcher, you give them 3 turns to find removal. If they do, they need to find more removal for the actual goblins you have been tutoring for in those turns.


Both will win the game, and both will do nothing if removed right away. But only one leaves behind friends and allows you to have tutorable answers to Batterskull, True Name, Delver of Secrets and Mother of Runes.

[Mr. Froggy]

This doesn't make sense to me. The Werewolves have zero board effect if they eat removal as well. If anything, something like a siege gang would be better because it takes specific removal to be 1 for 1ed.

If your Instigator Gang flips, you give them 3 turns to find removal. If they do you need another kill piece.

If you untap with Moggcatcher, you give them 3 turns to find removal. If they do, they need to find more removal for the actual goblins you have been tutoring for in those turns.

Both will win the game, and both will do nothing if removed right away. But only one leaves behind friends and allows you to have tutorable answers to Batterskull, True Name, Delver of Secrets and Mother of Runes.

I'm not saying that the Werewolves are better, I'm just saying that if I'm paying 4 mana for something, it better have board impact.

[Begle1]

As has been said, I've sorta come to the conclusion that if the locks work, almost any creatures can close it out.

To that end, I've been playing around with Prophetic Flamespeaker, Academy Raider and Goblin Rabblemaster as my creatures. The first two let me dig for cards, which this deck needs desperately, and the Rabblemaster can end the game very quickly all by himself. Further, they all cost 3 mana, they all rock with Umezawa's Jitte, and they can all easily play under Ensnaring Bridge, which I've been maindecking.

I've also been playing around with Chaos Warp. It gets rid of almost anything at instant speed, and the opponent has good odds of wiffing if playing any deck with lots of cantrips/ counterspells/ disruption (combo, Delver, control). It's also occasionally worthwhile to play on my own lands in the late game, as I have almost all permanents.

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Blood Moon
3x Ensnaring Bridge

4x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Academy Raider

3x Umezawa's Jitte

4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain
2x Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:

4x Chaos Warp
1x Blood Moon
1x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Koth of the Hammer
4x Shrine of Burning Rage

http://playtest.tappedout.net/28-07-14-red-stompy/

[Zupponn]

Interesting take on the deck. I would definitely cut a Jitte for a Sword of Fire and Ice if you have one. You might also look into shaving a land or two for something else. Other than that, I could get behind it.

On the subject of Chaos Warp, I'm not really sure how much it got tested, but I've always had it in the back of my mind. It just seems like such a good card, but then you have to remember that Brainstorm and Top are both legal.

That actually could be a pretty sweet idea. Brainstorm, Top, or Ponder, put Emrakul on top, Chaos Warp your Island, win?

[apple713]

That actually could be a pretty sweet idea. Brainstorm, Top, or Ponder, put Emrakul on top, Chaos Warp your Island, win?

you cannot take actions, like activating abilities or casting spells, while a spell or effect is resolving.


As has been said, I've sorta come to the conclusion that if the locks work, almost any creatures can close it out.

To that end, I've been playing around with Prophetic Flamespeaker, Academy Raider and Goblin Rabblemaster as my creatures. The first two let me dig for cards, which this deck needs desperately, and the Rabblemaster can end the game very quickly all by himself. Further, they all cost 3 mana, they all rock with Umezawa's Jitte, and they can all easily play under Ensnaring Bridge, which I've been maindecking.

I've also been playing around with Chaos Warp. It gets rid of almost anything at instant speed, and the opponent has good odds of wiffing if playing any deck with lots of cantrips/ counterspells/ disruption (combo, Delver, control). It's also occasionally worthwhile to play on my own lands in the late game, as I have almost all permanents.

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Blood Moon
3x Ensnaring Bridge

4x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Academy Raider

3x Umezawa's Jitte

4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain
2x Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:

4x Chaos Warp
1x Blood Moon
1x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Koth of the Hammer
4x Shrine of Burning Rage

http://playtest.tappedout.net/28-07-14-red-stompy/

i would strongly recommend

-1 trinisphere - usually just excess, more than 1 always sucks
-1 jitte - you want to draw this but never more than 1
-2 academy raider - inferior to sensation gorger IMO since the creatures you are using are mostly compatible save simian and magus.
-1 mountain - seems more than excessive since you curve out at 3...
+2 sensation gorger - seems superior as a red draw mechanic...
+2 koth - you need more threats and a way to win when ensnaring bridge is keeping you alive
+1 Sword of fire and ice / Batterskull - is there a better equipment? yes, batter skull because it doesn't require a creature... however if you have an ensnaring bridge out either of these are somewhat restricted. If you run sensation gorger you would have 4 cards at start of turn... sometimes.

[honz]

Ensnaring bridge seems odd here to me. Although your creatures are small enough to attack under the bridge, none of them (except 2x academy raider) have evasion (flying or whatever) to get around opposing creatures. So when bridge is relevant, ie your opponent has creatures, then you can't attack either since their creatures will be bigger/better than yours. The only place I see bridge being useful is against reanimator/show and tell/elves. And against reanimator, its pretty much useless since tidespout tyrant/iona/elesh win anyway, and greiselbrand just draws into one of them. I can see it in the sideboard against show and tell and elves though, but not much else. Am I missing something?


Random thought, but Godo, bandit warlord seems really good here as a 1 of, along with batterskull. Expensive at 6 mana, I probably wouldn't run more than 1, but he has great synergies with the deck. At worst, he grabs batterskull and eats a piece of removal, and you then have a free batterskull and your opponent is down a piece of removal. At best, you get a batterskull, and next turn equip it to prophetic flamespeaker, and attack for 26 damage, gain 20 life, draw 4, and still have a 5/5 double strike life-link blocker. Depending on the board state, jitte or SoFI are also viable options, especially since godo has pseudo double strike. Also note godo is a human, which is likely the most named thing with cavern of souls already. Has anyone tried this already?

[Blastoderm]

As has been said, I've sorta come to the conclusion that if the locks work, almost any creatures can close it out.

To that end, I've been playing around with Prophetic Flamespeaker, Academy Raider and Goblin Rabblemaster as my creatures. The first two let me dig for cards, which this deck needs desperately, and the Rabblemaster can end the game very quickly all by himself. Further, they all cost 3 mana, they all rock with Umezawa's Jitte, and they can all easily play under Ensnaring Bridge, which I've been maindecking.

I've also been playing around with Chaos Warp. It gets rid of almost anything at instant speed, and the opponent has good odds of wiffing if playing any deck with lots of cantrips/ counterspells/ disruption (combo, Delver, control). It's also occasionally worthwhile to play on my own lands in the late game, as I have almost all permanents.

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Blood Moon
3x Ensnaring Bridge

4x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Academy Raider

3x Umezawa's Jitte

4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
11x Mountain
2x Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:

4x Chaos Warp
1x Blood Moon
1x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Koth of the Hammer
4x Shrine of Burning Rage

http://playtest.tappedout.net/28-07-14-red-stompy/

Sudden shock has been stellar for me! I suggest you maybe fit some in instead of a full chaos warp playset.

[Begle1]

The more I play the more I feel like the best Dragon Stompy deck is probably the one with the most thorough boarding plan. I think that sideboarding theory is a major part to this archetype and definitely something I'd like some input on. I think the primer definitely needs it (and an update in general). What match-ups do we want to be heavy on threat density, and what lock pieces do we cut or max for what match-up, on the play vs. on the draw?




My theory has been put in all the lock pieces game 1, sideboard the least useful ones out game 2... Which probably isn't ideal, I admit. I would really like to have some threats I can move into and out of the sideboard to replace the useless lock pieces, when I want a bigger threat density against decks with heavy removal. I do think I want another 4 creatures that can attack well.



Ensnaring bridge seems odd here to me. Although your creatures are small enough to attack under the bridge, none of them (except 2x academy raider) have evasion (flying or whatever) to get around opposing creatures. So when bridge is relevant, ie your opponent has creatures, then you can't attack either since their creatures will be bigger/better than yours. The only place I see bridge being useful is against reanimator/show and tell/elves. And against reanimator, its pretty much useless since tidespout tyrant/iona/elesh win anyway, and greiselbrand just draws into one of them. I can see it in the sideboard against show and tell and elves though, but not much else. Am I missing something?


This deck wants a Jitte versus resolved fatties. Flamespeaker with a Jitte can solo almost anything (the first strike damage puts counters on the Jitte, and then can pump the Flamespeaker to a 5/8). Rabblemaster can keep putting the Jitte onto the token, and Academy Raider loves attacking under the Bridge with or without the Jitte.

If Ensnaring Bridge stalemates are likely, a Koth or Shrine out of the sideboard can win them without attacking. Again, sideboarding plan seems critical.

Is it be better to play a creature that can trade or evade their blocker, instead of playing the Bridge and hoping I can draw into a Jitte? Definitely something to wonder about... What cheap creatures can beat a fattie without help, though? Flametongue Kavu instead of Bridge? (It would be nice to have SOMETHING that didn't die to Abrupt Decay!)


Dropping a mountain, sideboarding a Trinisphere is probably the right call. The Koth's can run into problems with Bridge; would it be better to maindeck the Koth's? Probably, yes. My sideboarding plan definitely needs work.

I'd love to replace Academy Raider but I appreciate the ability to dig and get in Jitte'd hits. I wish Stoneforge Mystic was red. Or Enlightened Tutor. Or anything that would give us consistency. :frown: I don't think I have enough goblins for the Sensation Gorgers to be effective.


You know, I really wish there was an in-color way to give my creatures deathtouch. Deathtouch Flamespeaker is as good as Jitte'd Flamespeaker and deathtouch Sharpshooter is a blow-out. But Basilisk Collar costs 1 mana and Gorgon Flail and Quietus Spike both suck...


I was running Arc Trail at one point... I'm not sure if burn is where we want to be though, as opposed to mass creature control.



So here's the rogue crazy card for the night: Skyship Weatherlight! The cheapest way to search for the perfect lock-piece, creature or equipment for the job, for the low cost of eight mana spread over two turns! It's like a super-effective Jayemdae Tome! It's a card advantage engine and tutor all in one! It doesn't die to Abrupt Decay!

[Zupponn]

I believe Team Italia originally had Basalisk Collar + Grim Lavamancer as a mini combo.

[MaximumC]

This doesn't make sense to me. The Werewolves have zero board effect if they eat removal as well. If anything, something like a siege gang would be better because it takes specific removal to be 1 for 1ed.

If your Instigator Gang flips, you give them 3 turns to find removal. If they do you need another kill piece.

If you untap with Moggcatcher, you give them 3 turns to find removal. If they do, they need to find more removal for the actual goblins you have been tutoring for in those turns.


Both will win the game, and both will do nothing if removed right away. But only one leaves behind friends and allows you to have tutorable answers to Batterskull, True Name, Delver of Secrets and Mother of Runes.

I imagine Froggie's response is something like this:
"Sure, the Wolf is also useless if it gets Swords. However, at least there I am only out 3 mana instead of 5. I can dump a bunch of those before I could drop one Moggcatcher. That's a big deal because it means I am not relying on a curve-topping finisher that might do literally nothing."

[Rad_Fishy]

Is the general consensus Goblin Rabblemaster > Prophetic Flamespeaker in the Moggcatcher builds?

[Stomping Grounds G&H]

How is the D&T matchup?

[jancz]

How is the D&T matchup?
Having played against it at eternal weekend I wanna say poor for a few reasons.
1. They run basic plains which makes the 8 moon plan weak.
2. They run a lot of spells that cost 2+ mana which makes the chalice @ 1 plan weak.
3. Serra Avenger is a goddamn beating and I dunno if we have any creatures good enough to deal with it.
4. If you don't have a moon they blow up your sol lands.

On another note this deck took 13th at SCG Min so that is kinda cool that it put up a result somewhere

[Mr. Froggy]

I played Dragon Stompy at my local New Jersey GPT to a horrible finish, but I noticed that RPD wins games by himself. I hit for 16 in one turn with the Dragon equipped with SoFI.

The deck decided to shit on me because I mulled to 5 (even mulled to 4, and won) most matches but I still had fun. I did wish I had not forgotten my Sudden Shocks because I got killed by Delver a few too many times.

Also, a friend of mine played Mogg Stompy to a horrible result as well.

[Zupponn]

On another note this deck took 13th at SCG Min so that is kinda cool that it put up a result somewhere
That was me! (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=75193)

Having played against it at eternal weekend I wanna say poor for a few reasons.
1. They run basic plains which makes the 8 moon plan weak.
2. They run a lot of spells that cost 2+ mana which makes the chalice @ 1 plan weak.
3. Serra Avenger is a goddamn beating and I dunno if we have any creatures good enough to deal with it.
4. If you don't have a moon they blow up your sol lands.
I bring in 3 Anarchys against D&T, but find the matchup to actually be fairly even overall.

I'll get a report up for my finish when I get back home either tomorrow or the next day.

[Ace/Homebrew]

That was me!
Congrats Zupponn! :laugh:
I'm excited to read your report.

[Jelmerz77]

That was me! (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=75193)

I bring in 3 Anarchys against D&T, but find the matchup to actually be fairly even overall.

I'll get a report up for my finish when I get back home either tomorrow or the next day.

Congrats!

[Stomping Grounds G&H]

Really looking forward to the tourney report; I am strongly considering a list close to yours for the GP.

edit: Open Question: What is the plan vs dredge? Resolve Trin + Bridge? I've seen many lists with 0 graveyard hate.

[Zirath]

Grats on the finish. Glad to see the Moons rocking it.

How was Rakka Mar? Literally the only card I question in your MD as I've never been super impressed with her. Is she just Moggcatcher 5-6?

[Zupponn]

How was Rakka Mar? Literally the only card I question in your MD as I've never been super impressed with her. Is she just Moggcatcher 5-6?
I like Rakka Mar. I've never had issues with her and can build an army by herself very quickly. I guess that she sort of is Moggcatcher 5-6 in a way and can end the game quite fast by herself.

edit: Open Question: What is the plan vs dredge? Resolve Trin + Bridge? I've seen many lists with 0 graveyard hate.
When I faced Manaless Dredge, I brought in my 3 Bridges, 2 Pyrokinesis, 2 Stingscourgers, and my Sharpshooter. It didn't end too well. There could be an argument to maybe cut a Stingscourger and the Sharpshooter for some kind of hate.

Grats on the finish. Glad to see the Moons rocking it.

Congrats!

Congrats Zupponn! :laugh:
Thanks guys!

Really looking forward to the tourney report; I am strongly considering a list close to yours for the GP.

I'm excited to read your report.
Well, here we go:

I'm going to preface this by saying that my Saturday performance was quite poor. I ended up 2-3 drop in the Standard Open and 0-3 drop in the Legacy side event that I entered into for fun. I feel that the side event was a good help in changing my mindset from Standard to Legacy and I came to the first table feeling focused and excited that I would get to play this wonderful format. I kept some notes on what happened during the games, but I don't really remember how I sideboarded in some of them, so if I can, I'll put it in or guess as best I can.

The list for those interested. (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=75193)

Round 1 - Damien on Maverickish (I call this Maverickish because my opponent was new to the format and was playing G/W, but was running stuff like Fleecemane Lion, Skinshifter, and Figure of Destiny along with Mother of Runes and Stoneforge Mystic. Really nice guy though, as most of the people I played against and sat near were all day.)

Game 1 - Now, I don't remember this match quite as well as the rest, but I do remember starting with T1 Umezawa's Jitte and following that up with a Trinisphere. I got a Moggcatcher out and he followed with Mom. I fetched up Murderous Redcap to kill the Mom and he answered with Stoneforge fetching Batterskull. I fetch up Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and copy the Redcap to kill his Mystic and he can't get anything that can stop my next turn Siege-Gang Commander.

Sideboard - I have no idea what I did.

Game 2 - I honestly don't remember much about this game. I have "Chalice, Magus, Rabble" written down in my notes. I'll just assume that explains most of what happened that game.

W 2-0 (1-0)

Round 2 - Charles on Merfolk

Game 1 - I try the T1 Blood Moon which meets Force of Will. He then gets an AEther Vial off of a Mutavault. I get stuck on one red source and fall behind with no plays. 2 Mutavaults start beating me down and by the time I get Rakka Mar out he has True-Name Nemesis. I lose.

Sideboard - In come the 3 Ensnaring Bridges, out go 3 Blood Moons.

Game 2 - I land a T2 Goblin Rabblemaster and poke with the token for one. My opponent has Cursecatcher. I poke for 5 more, trading a token for the Cursecatcher, and follow with a Magus of the Moon. He drops a True-Name Nemesis. I send my 2 tokens in and the TNN eats one for two turns, taking him to 11. He drops a second TNN and hits me for 3 with the first one. I hardcast Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, copy Rabblemaster, and swing with everything. He blocks the nontoken Rabblemaster and I get in for exactsies.

Game 3 - My opponent starts with AEther Vial T1. I have Ensnaring Bridge, which meets Force of Will, exiling Echoing Truth. He drops Silvergill Adept, revealing Cursecatcher in hand, which he Vials in after I pass. He hits me for 3 and I go for the Moggcatcher on my turn. After he realizes he can't counter it with Cursecatcher, it resolves and I pass. My opponent untaps, drops a Merfolk lord and Vials in a Phantasmal Image, copying it. Then he attacks for 7, bringing me to 8 (I took 2 from an Ancient Tomb activation). I then play a second Bridge, which resolves, and drop a pair of Chrome Moxs, imprinting nothing, to bring my hand size to 3. I then fetch up Siege-Gang Commander and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker while keeping my hand size low so that he can't attack. I ping him to death with SGC.

A cool thing during this match was after I cast Rabblemaster in G2, Brad Nelson, who was at the match next to ours, asked me how great it feels to be casting Rabblemaster in Legacy. I responded with something like a "Pretty good".

W 2-1 (2-0)

Round 3 - Andrew on Omnitell (This guy was the guy who won the Standard Open)

Game 1 - He Show and Tells Dream Halls and combos from there T2 after my T1 Blood Moon. Rough.

Sideboard - I bring in my 3 Ensnaring Bridges, 2 Stingscourgers, and the Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Out went the Blood Moons, Umezawa's Jitte, and Sword of Fire and Ice

Game 2 - An early Goblin Rabblemaster backed by Chalice of the Void at 2 got there. He didn't really have anything.

Game 3 - Chalice of the Void at 1 gets Force of Willed. He goes for T2 Show and Tell and drops Omniscience, but this time I have the Trinisphere to put into play. I lay my T2 Ensnaring Bridge and he starts digging for an out with a cantrip (He specifically said that he was casting the card for free but paying the 3 mana for 3Sphere. We had a laugh at that). I get T3 Goblin Rabblemaster and get in for 1 bringing him to 18. He casts Enter the Infinite and draws his library and puts one card on top. I bash in for 6, bringing him to 12 and get a Chalice at 1 out. He untaps, draws his last card and then passes, discarding down to 7. I add my freshly drawn second Rabblemaster to the board and get in for 10, bringing him to 2. End of my turn he Cunning Wishes for Rushing River. He untaps and moves to his upkeep, where he casts the River, saccing an Island to kick it, and bouncing both 3Sphere and Chalice. Then he Wishes for Noxious Revival and Wishes again for Release the Ants, puts Enter the Infinite on the top of his library, and Ants me to death. So close. :(

L 1-2 (2-1)

Round 4 - Charlie on Manaless Dredge

Game 1 - He won the die roll and chose to draw rather than play, so I knew he was on Manaless Dredge. I made probably a big play error here by T1 Trinisphere off of Ancient Tomb and Chrome Mox, which exiled the only red card in my hand, Moggcatcher. The only action I had the rest of the game was a hardcast Simian Spirit Guide, which couldn't hold back the Ichorids and Zombie Tokens. Instead I should have waited a turn to T2 Trinisphere with my land heavy hand and then cast Moggcatcher to get Siege-Gangs and Kiki-Jiki to grind him out. I didn't really realize this until after the event though.

Sideboard - I brought in 3 Ensnaring Bridges, 2 Pyrokinesis, 2 Stingscourgers, and my Goblin Sharpshooter. Out went all the Blood Moons and Chalice of the Voids.

Game 2 - I kept a bad hand that had T2 Stingscourger to bounce one of his Zombie Tokens, but before my third turn, he comboed off by Dread Returning Balustrade Spy into Dread Returning Flayer of the Hatebound and Golgari Grave-Troll. I don't know if his deck could have ran any more perfect there.

L 0-2 (2-2)

At this point I was pretty discouraged after losing 2 in a row. I talked with my friend that I drove up with who went 0-3 with Burn and I was about to drop to go do a 2-Headed Giant Sealed event with him, but he wanted to do his Standard Win-a-Box event (which he split). I decided to keep going then.

Round 5 - Jim on U/G Infect

Game 1 - I start with T1 Trinisphere. My opponent drops Misty Rainforest. I go with T2 Goblin Rabblemaster and my opponent looks at his hand and scoops.

Sideboard - Since I don't know what he's on, I don't sideboard anything here.

Game 2 - He starts with T1 Noble Hierarch into T2 Pendelhaven and Blighted Agent. My slow hand can't keep up.

Sideboard - Now that I know he's on Infect, I bring in the 2 Pyrokinesis and Goblin Sharpshooter. I take out Tuktuk Scrapper, and I think the Rakka Mars, but I'm not sure about that one.

Game 3 - I have T1 Chalice of the Void at 1. Then I dropped a Blood Moon, which he responded by fetching an Island. He then dropped a Blighted Agent. I played Goblin Rabblemaster and started the beats. He took me up to 2 poison and I added a Trinisphere. Rabblemaster got there.

W 2-1 (3-2)

Round 6 - Ben on BUG Control

Game 1 - My opponent starts off with Island into Sensei's Divining Top and I play the T1 Blood Moon. He scoops.

Sideboard - I don't think I sided in anything here since I wasn't sure what he was on.

Game 2 - He plays a land and I have a T1 Magus of the Moon. I add Goblin Rabblemaster T2 and he scoops showing me the Swan Song he was holding for Blood Moon

W 2-0 (4-2)

Round 7 - Jeremy on Elves

Game 1 - He led with a Wirewood Symbiote. I played a land and passed. He then played a Elvish Visionary and attacked me to 19. I responded with a Trinisphere and passed. He cast Glimpse of Nature. I reminded him that it cost 3, which he paid, and then he attacked for 2, taking me to 17. I had nothing for the next turn, so he added a Heritage Druid and took me to 15. I played a Moggcatcher and passed. He played a Dryad Arbor and I followed with Murderous Redcap, killing the Dryad Arbor. He then Natural Ordered, saccing the Symbiote and got Craterhoof Behemoth and swung with his three guys for 16. Murderous Redcap reduced what I took to 14 and I was at 1 life. I untapped, drew my card and passed the turn. He attacked with his team and I fetched Siege-Gang Commander with Moggcatcher. I blocked one of the 1/1s with Siege-Gang and the others with two of the tokens, leaving him with only the Behemoth. On my turn I drew and passed. He did the same. At the end of his turn I fetched up Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and he scooped.

Sideboard - I brought in 3 Ensnaring Bridges, 2 Pyrokinesis, and the Goblin Sharpshooter. I took out all the Blood Moons, the Tuktuk Scrapper, and a Rakka Mar

Game 2 - He played Elvish Mystic and I had T1 Chalice of the Void at 1. He attacked for 1, taking me to 19 and then Green Sun's Zenithed for a Nettle Sentinel. I played Ensnaring Bridge and passed. He attacked for 3, taking me to 16. I cast Goblin Rabblemaster and Murderous Redcaped his Sentinel and won from there.

W 2-0 (5-2)

Round 8 - Bill on Reanimator

Game 1 - I have to mull to 5 here, which I'm not thrilled about, but do have a T1 Goblin Rabblemaster after his T1 Careful Study, which hits him for 1 with the token. He plays a land and Brainstorms. I get in there for 6 more, bringing him to 10, then cast a Magus of the Moon off of my Ancient Tomb and Mountain and it gets Dazed. I then sheepishly play the last card in my hand, a Mountain. My opponent then does something I've never seen before and casts Reanimate to reanimate my Magus, taking himself to 10. I add Trinisphere and just start hitting him with my 3 tokens a turn until he's dead.

Sideboard - I bring in 3 Ensnaring Bridges, 2 Stingscourgers, and my Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I take out Tuktuk Scrapper, Umezawa's Jitte, Sword of Fire and Ice and 3 Blood Moons.

Game 2 - He T1 Careful Studys into T2 Exhume getting Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. I just scoop.

Game 3 - I cast a T2 Trinisphere, which meets Force of Will. Then I try for Ensnaring Bridge, which meets Daze. I do manage to stick a Chalice of the Void at 1, but he goes for Show and Tell and puts in Griselbrand. I put in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He draws 7 and then draws 7 again, plays 2 Lotus Petals and scoops. Sometimes you just get lucky. Also, that's the first time I've ever dropped an Emrakul off of a Show and Tell in my life.:laugh:

W 2-1 (6-2)

Round 9 - Alex on 12-Post

Game 1 - I start with T1 Blood Moon into T2 Goblin Rabblemaster. Rabblemaster gets there.

Sideboard - I bring in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and 3 Ensnaring Bridges. Out goes all the Trinispheres and a Rakka Mar

Game 2 - I get Magus of the Moon and 2 Blood Moons out, but no additional pressure. He manages to cast and pop Oblivion Stone and then win with a pair of Primeval Titans.

Game 3 - I go T1 Chalice of the Void at 1, then follow it up with Magus of the Moon, and my opponent gets a fetched Island in response. I add Goblin Rabblemaster and take him to 16, then 8 and I add Chalice at 2. My Rabblemaster gets Repealed before combat and my attack takes him to 4. I then cast a Moggcatcher and pass. He casts Show and Tell, putting in Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and I put my Rabblemaster back into play. I fetch up Stingscourger on my turn to bounce the Eldrazi and I win.

W 2-1 (7-2)


I tried to recall as much as I can from my memory and my notes, so if you have any questions, please let me know and I'll try to help you clear them up.

[Blastoderm]

Congrats Zuppon! Nice to see this deck in the top 16 :)

[therenblaze]

Round 7 - Jeremy on Elves
Sideboard - I brought in 3 Ensnaring Bridges, 2 Pyrokinesis, and the Goblin Sharpshooter. I took out all the Blood Moons, the Tuktuk Scrapper, and a Rakka Mar


Just out of curiosity, why do you take out Blood moon in this matchup, most lists run only 1 forest so bloodmoon is still a solid lock piece.

Also, did you have a reason for not running goblin settler or cavern of souls? I feel like the miracles matchup gets alot weaker, and you suddenly have a shot of not having the critical cards resolving in some matchups.

Is there a match besides miracles where you want to have koth, or can he be safely replaced?

To add constructive info rather than just questions, this is my current thoughts on my own board:
1 emrakul
3 ensnaring
2 sulfur elemental
1 anarchy
2 faerie macabre
1 stingscourger
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 tuk tuk
2 pyrokinesis
1 flex spot for burn? batterskull, sun droplet, dragons claw, or maybe a third macabre

[Ace/Homebrew]

Just out of curiosity, why do you take out Blood moon in this matchup, most lists run only 1 forest so bloodmoon is still a solid lock piece.

Probably because he was on the draw. On the play, Elves is going to fetch for their one basic anyway. Once they have that, they can play any number of elves that tap for :g: and then you wasted your first turn playing an enchantment that won't do anything relevent.

I suspect he would put them back in on the draw to catch them being greedy or force them into mulligans to find the basic.


If you remember, a few weeks ago Elves placed highly in an SCG using Blood Moons in the sideboard. The thought being that they can cast it consistently on turn 2 and at that point they already have their forest out. :wink:

[therenblaze]

Ah, yes siding them out on the draw does seem like the correct move, missed that the first time around.

[Zupponn]

On the Elves matchup, I would probably take the Blood Moons out all the time, no matter if I'm on the play or the draw. The Bridges, Pyrokinesis, and Sharpshooter all just seem so much better and there isn't much else that seems terrible in the matchup. If you drop a Moon, sure you can possibly lock them out, but all they need to do is rip a basic Forest, of which they run many and Blood Moon is a dead card. At least Magus can participate in combat.


Also, did you have a reason for not running goblin settler or cavern of souls? I feel like the miracles matchup gets alot weaker, and you suddenly have a shot of not having the critical cards resolving in some matchups.
If you look back in this thread, I believe I was the one who suggested Settler and I almost immediately cut it. It's almost never worth searching for and I don't think I ever did. Plus, that lock is slow and clunky and by the time you get it online, you probably could have taken the game over with Siege-Gang.

Cavern seems great in theory, but our manabase is already shit, so I don't want to make it worse for a card that doesn't help land a Blood Moon and is just as effective at landing Chalice or 3Sphere as a basic Mountain. If they counter one of your creatures, you can probably find another one. Besides, you should usually be leading with a noncreature lock piece if you have it anyway.

Is there a match besides miracles where you want to have koth, or can he be safely replaced?
I wouldn't remove Koth. Miracles is a popular deck and having a card that they just can't beat no matter what they draw is extremely good. He also is good vs Enchantress, which can be a tricky matchup at times. You could probably also bring him in vs BUG Control since some of them like to try to win with only JTMS.

To add constructive info rather than just questions, this is my current thoughts on my own board:
1 emrakul
3 ensnaring
2 sulfur elemental
1 anarchy
2 faerie macabre
1 stingscourger
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 tuk tuk
2 pyrokinesis
1 flex spot for burn? batterskull, sun droplet, dragons claw, or maybe a third macabre
Why do we care about Burn? We have 7 cards that are almost GG against them in Chalice and 3Sphere.

I also think that Anarchy>Sulfur Elemental 100% of the time. In D&T, Mirran Crusader, Brimaz, Serra Avenger, Stoneforge, and a creature with Equipment can all dodge the Elemental. We can pay 5 for Anarchy with Thalia out no problem. Then we can also bring Anarchy in vs other matchups too like Enchantress and maybe even Miracles.

I like Faerie Macabre a lot, but not in this deck. Faerie is good against Reanimator shells, but sucks vs Dredge. I've seen people running Leyline of the Void as well, but still I'm not a fan there either. The problem with both of them is that they're pretty dead in a lot of cases. Since both Relic of Progenitus and Grafdigger's Cage cost 1 mana, those are probably out too, leaving us with Tormod's Crypt, which I think is our best option for graveyard hate.

[ZTurgeon]

On the Elves matchup, I would probably take the Blood Moons out all the time, no matter if I'm on the play or the draw. The Bridges, Pyrokinesis, and Sharpshooter all just seem so much better and there isn't much else that seems terrible in the matchup. If you drop a Moon, sure you can possibly lock them out, but all they need to do is rip a basic Forest, of which they run many and Blood Moon is a dead card. At least Magus can participate in combat.

Why do we care about Burn? We have 7 cards that are almost GG against them in Chalice and 3Sphere.



Blood Moon on the play is great against Elves. It only appears like they run a lot of forests because that is what they fetch for. If you look back at SCG Worcester, 4 Elves decks were in the top 16, and they had a combined 7 forests and no player had more than 2. It locks them out of the game until they can draw a 2 outer, and hopefully by then they are long dead.


As for Burn, it's actually a really unfavorable matchup for us. There costs are too staggered and they can kill anything we play. In board games they also bring in Smash to Smithereens which hurts the chalice on 1 plan. Because Delver has gotten so big with cruise, they all have main deck searing blazes and possibly even searing bloods which really hurt us.

[Mr. Froggy]

I play vs Burn often and have extremely good results vs the deck. Chalice or Trinisphere GG.

[bruizar]

Christmas came early


http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_xna2ntodzj.png

[Ace/Homebrew]

Christmas came early
Feels more like an office gift exchange then Christmas...

Pretty sure your opponent can target the same land and creature you do.

[B is for Big Job]

Feels more like an office gift exchange then Christmas...

Pretty sure your opponent can target the same land and creature you do.

They can but it is still good removal for big creatures and annoying lands like Maze, Port or Karakas if you don't have a moon effect out yet.

[bruizar]

Feels more like an office gift exchange then Christmas...

Pretty sure your opponent can target the same land and creature you do.

If this is the case, I'm going to cry

[Zupponn]

It doesn't say "another target land".

[Ace/Homebrew]

Zupponn, I took your list to my local last night and went 5-0 (well, really 3-0-2. But when the games were played out after ID-ing I won them).
39 players. 5 rounds and top 8 splits the prize support.

I had to make the following changes due to card availability:

Main Deck
-2 Goblin Rabblemaster
+2 Gathan Raiders

Sideboard
-2 Pyrokinesis
+2 Cave-In

-1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
+1 Goblin Settler

I beat High Tide, Miracles, 4C Treasure Cruise, 4C Punishing Mav, and BUG Cruise.

Drawing 3 CotV and a Trinisphere against High Tide games 2 and 3 helped.
Miracles mulling to 5 game one and a turn 2 Settler destroying a basic plains game 2 helped.
Jitte and a body (specifically Murderous Redcap, which is fun because the store is Redcap's Corner) beat 4C TC game 1. A misplay by my opponent while I cast Blood Moon gave me game 2.
Resolving Blood Moons beat the last two.

Thoughts:
Rakka Mar is good, but it was always the first card I considered taking out when sideboarding.
Settler is good and came in from the board after the first game of every round.

I don't play standard... Who'd have thought Rabblemaster was good? Even with only 2 in the deck I noticed how good he is.

Picked up a foil Monastery Swiftspear, a foil Dig Through Time, and a non-foil full art Zendikar Loop Mountain for my troubles. :cool:

[Captain Hammer]

Eventhough it only hits one land and one creature, since it's a 2 for 1 and LD is incredibly disruptive, it still could have potential alongside Trinisphere and/or Tangle Wire and/or Lodestone Golem possibly in a version of dragon stompy that augments it with any of the other LD options that red has access to...

Fulminator Mage
Stone Rain
Goblin Settler
Avalanche Riders

Don't have time to test this at the moment though. However I had been playing around with Daretti, Scrap Savant online and I find that...

Daretti, Scrap Savant has amazing potential in this deck. It's the planeswalker we've always been waiting for IMO. 3R is the perfect cost. It's +2 ability is extremely useful in Dragon Stompy in the many situations where our hands get clogged with either too many lands/chrome mox, too many blood moons/trinispheres, or threats that are too high cc.

The +2 is equivalent to casting a brainstorm (no actual card advantage but no card disadvantage either and a marked improvement in card quality). It addresses this decks greatest weakness, the lack of consistency.

The -2 is solid with the equipments already in the deck when combined with the +2, but would be absolutely amazing if we are willing to add more artifacts to the deck. Wurmcoil Engine and Lodestone Golem, or equipment.

I guess it would take us closer to a Stax direction but I think it's well worth going that route for the added consistency the +2 offers over the current Dragon Stompy variations.

[Jables237]

Went 4-0 (Technically 3-0-1 we split last round). Weekly legacy event. 16~ Players. Quick write up. Let me know if you have any questions.

Round 1 Maverick 2-0. No sideboard changes.
Very simple games. Resolved T1 moon both games. Game 2 he did get a plains and a forest and was able to play a couple pridemage and knight of the reliquary. Flamespeaker and jitte were too much though.

Round 2 MUD 2-1 3 Trinisphere and 3 chalice out for Revoker and Bridge.
Game 1 was blood moon and ended pretty quick. Game 2 I over extended into an All is dust. Never recovered. Game 3 was a bad keep but a fast dragon lord started damage. He had a metal worker which was magma jet'd. Leveled up the dragon lord to 4 and he slams wurmcoil. I respond with Ensnaring bridge and had 4 cards in hand. That let me attack but he couldn't.

Round 3 Storm 2-0 Magma jets and moon out for Revoker and tormod's
Game 1 He won the roll and made me discard trinisphere. I got lucky and he had a bad hand. Was able to get a flipped werewolf and kill him quick. I had no business winning this one. Game 2, turn 1 he cabal therapy'd and named chalice and missed. I drew one on my turn. Played it at 1. Then played revoker on LED, another revoker on petal, and a magus. Got there.

round 4 D&T 2-1 (We split) Trinisphere, bloodmoon, out for Revoker, bridge, and 2 pyrokinesis
Game 1 I won the roll. Chalice on 1. Flamespeaker with Jitte followed. Wrapped up quick. Game 2 I had a pretty bad keep. He got early equipment and I didn't have much to do. Game 3. Flamespeaker and Jitte took this one as well.


List:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blood Moon
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
2 Hanweir Watchkeep
3 Kargan Dragonlord
3 Koth of the Hammer
3 Magma Jet
4 Magus of the Moon
9 Mountain
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pyroblast
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt

[Zupponn]

Zupponn, I took your list to my local last night and went 5-0 (well, really 3-0-2. But when the games were played out after ID-ing I won them).
39 players. 5 rounds and top 8 splits the prize support.
Nice man! High five!

Sideboard
-2 Pyrokinesis
+2 Cave-In
Cave-In seems pretty good in the format right now. The big downside though is that you lose your whole board state in the process. I'll probably stick with Pyrokinesis myself.

-1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
+1 Goblin Settler
Because of how I beat Reanimator at SCG Minneapolis, I'll probably keep Emrakul around for a long time. If I would put a Settler in the board, I'd probably take out either an Anarchy or a Stingscourger for it.

Thoughts:
Rakka Mar is good, but it was always the first card I considered taking out when sideboarding.
Settler is good and came in from the board after the first game of every round.
I've always had the same feelings about Rakka Mar myself and never really saw her at the Open. If I'm looking for something to cut in the main, she's probably the first to go. If you find yourself using the Settler a lot, you might want him main. I've never really been the biggest fan of him myself, but then again the guys over in the Goblins thread have been experimenting with him. A Goblins list with Settler also did top 8 at last weekend's SCG Open, so maybe he's better than I give him credit for.

I don't play standard... Who'd have thought Rabblemaster was good? Even with only 2 in the deck I noticed how good he is.
Even after my testing that made me fall in love with Rabblemaster in this deck, I was surprised at how well he can race some of the best decks in the format. T1 Rabblemaster is hella scary. He can turn some really shitty draws into gold all by himself.

@Jables237: Looks like you have a solid list there. The biggest thing I wonder though is why Magma Jet? Are you looking for the 2 damage or the Scry 2? If it's mainly the former, Sudden Shock might be better, but if the Scry is making a big impact, then it might be worth it.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Nice man! High five! :laugh:


Cave-In seems pretty good in the format right now. The big downside though is that you lose your whole board state in the process. I'll probably stick with Pyrokinesis myself.
No argument here! I used Cave-In because apparently I sold off my Pyrokineses and now I have to find a new set...


Because of how I beat Reanimator at SCG Minneapolis, I'll probably keep Emrakul around for a long time. If I would put a Settler in the board, I'd probably take out either an Anarchy or a Stingscourger for it.
I also like Emrakul for Painter, which can be a difficult matchup. Again, if I had one he'd have been used. :smile:


I've always had the same feelings about Rakka Mar myself and never really saw her at the Open. If I'm looking for something to cut in the main, she's probably the first to go. If you find yourself using the Settler a lot, you might want him main. I've never really been the biggest fan of him myself, but then again the guys over in the Goblins thread have been experimenting with him. A Goblins list with Settler also did top 8 at last weekend's SCG Open, so maybe he's better than I give him credit for.
I'm going to experiment with 1 Settler main and 1 in the board. I'm also going to try to find room for the 4th Trinisphere in the board. My thought process there is Settler under a 3sphere is tough for someone to handle and punishes shakey hands that are light on mana. Plus it is always nice to have a way to remove basic lands that are stopping your Blood Moon lock.

[Jables237]

@Jables237: Looks like you have a solid list there. The biggest thing I wonder though is why Magma Jet? Are you looking for the 2 damage or the Scry 2? If it's mainly the former, Sudden Shock might be better, but if the Scry is making a big impact, then it might be worth it.

Magma Jet has been amazing. 2 damage is the key number in legacy. Delver, SFM, deathrite etc etc. I hate being on the draw and have the turn 1 moon but they played deathrite. Magma Jet kills what you need to and the scry 2 is amazing. This deck loses so often to just bad draws its extremely frustrating. Last night I went 0-3 because I just couldn't get anything going. Just how it goes for high variance decks though.

[Zupponn]

I also like Emrakul for Painter, which can be a difficult matchup. Again, if I had one he'd have been used. :smile:
Well, Painter is the real reason he's in there. I just wanted to stress how amazing that game felt.

[B4L4]

Magma Jet has been amazing.

Would you consider Fire Imp over it ?

[Jables237]

Would you consider Fire Imp over it ?

Hmm that is an interesting choice as well. Lose scry but get a body. I think I prefer the scry but I could see that being ok.

[Zupponn]

Picked up that Goblin Settler that's been hanging around my LGS after they dropped the price to $40. At the very least I'm going to cut Sharpshooter in the side for the Settler.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Picked up that Goblin Settler that's been hanging around my LGS after they dropped the price to $40. At the very least I'm going to cut Sharpshooter in the side for the Settler.

I've been testing 2 in the main, cutting Rakka completely. I'll let you know how it goes. :smile:

[bruizar]

Picked up that Goblin Settler that's been hanging around my LGS after they dropped the price to $40. At the very least I'm going to cut Sharpshooter in the side for the Settler.

Remember when I bought those for €0.10 each. Magic is beginning to get stupid.

[Zupponn]

Has anyone been thinking about Feldon of the Third Path in Red Stompy? I'm not too sure of it myself, but there is an argument for Feldon acting like an untutorable Kiki-Jiki and comboing with Siege-Gangs and Settlers and Scrappers and stuff.

[Chatto]

Remember when I bought those for €0.10 each. Magic is beginning to get stupid.

Wow... Cheap! I think Goblin Settler is going to be even tougher to get, now Vial Goblins is picking him up as well

[bruizar]

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=38997.105;wap2

Had them more than 5 years ago :x Many people told me the card was crap, as with a lot of other cards. Selling off part of my magic cards paid for my university. Thank you scarcitygames, for tricking nerds with good jobs into spending tons of money on your market cornering practices.

The same thing happened to Candelabra of Tawnos. At first, it made an appearance in high tide, and then when Rock Lee's turbo eldrazi deck won a tournament the price spiked and never came down because SCG leads prices for the 2nd market and benefits from inflating the market. I got them for €25 each. When Ben Bleiweiss bought my italian The Abyss off magiccardmarket, I immediately hunted for English versions. A few days later, doubled/tripled. He also bought a foil Burning Wish, and then I got some more from other vendors >>> profit. I actually did this myself with foil Dark Depths. Bought out all of them for $30-$35 each on magiccardmarket and abugames when Thespian Stage was spoiled, then relisted them on magiccardmarket for €60/€70. The card is now at €85 each (cheapest). Needless to say this was profitable. Other vendors will just follow the dominant vendor. Herd mentality at its finest :)

[Blastoderm]

moggcatcher in top 8 :):)

[Zupponn]

I think that the change in the format is great for this deck.

[ZTurgeon]

I think that the change in the format is great for this deck.
Went 5-0-2 in a field of 96 yesterday, losing in the quarterfinals. The deck is really good right now. I just hope that two weekends of scg top 16 in a row don't let the world know before the GP.

[Myelectronicdays]

yeah love the imperial recruiter version.. wish those things werent so damn pricey, always rather be spending my $ on other cards :/

[Alex_UNLIMITED]

How is the match-up against UR Delver with Mono-Red Moggcatcher?

[Jables237]

How is the match-up against UR Delver with Mono-Red Moggcatcher?

Chalice on 1 is basically in auto win. 3 ball slows them down but they still have a lot of burn so they can slam a pyromancer and just burn every dude we try to play. That is what I have found.

[Myelectronicdays]

after game 1, they board in atleast 1-2 smash to smithereens for the chalice.. so i find it far from an auto win... not to mention blood moons don't hurt that deck nearly as bad.

[Jables237]

after game 1, they board in atleast 1-2 smash to smithereens for the chalice.. so i find it far from an auto win... not to mention blood moons don't hurt that deck nearly as bad.
Unanswered chalice on 1 I should say. Obviously if they counter it and if they smash it. Most lists seem to run 1-3. They do have to find it naturally though because their cantrips will be turned off. If we are in magic christmas land we can also chalice on 2 as well.

[Myelectronicdays]

Unanswered chalice on 1 I should say. Obviously if they counter it and if they smash it. Most lists seem to run 1-3. They do have to find it naturally though because their cantrips will be turned off. If we are in magic christmas land we can also chalice on 2 as well.

totally agree. I lost to UR delver last thur (my weekly local legacy, went 2-2).. although i was playing dragon version this weekend instead of mogg (just for a random change of pace). Lost to UR delver.. although it went to a very close game 3. I had a terrible evening of getting turn 1 chalice's or blood moons all night.. no matter how hard I mulled. The tempo in that match is still pretty damn scary if they are on the play game 1.

[Jelmerz77]

An Imperial / Goblin Stompy hybrid made 6th place at SCG.

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/18362#259088

Would like to hear the reasoning behind some choices :)

What is the Gemstone Cavern in the SB for?

[Zupponn]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the list, but he did Top 8 with it.

[Vandalize]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the list, but he did Top 8 with it.

Maindeck seems fine. Sideboard seems terrible. But yeah, he made Top 8 (probably on the back of Moon Effects and Chalice than whatever else he was playing).

[bernie]

Been playing with this list at my LGS lately. Went 3-1 once in tournament but I have been out of town since then.

4x Magus
4x Moggcatcher
4x Spirit Guide
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Kiki-Jiki
1x Goblin Settler
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

4x Chalice
4x Trinisphere
4x Chrome Mox
1x Jitte
4x Blood Moon

2x Koth

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Cavern of Souls
7x Mountains

SB:
3x Pyrokinesis
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sulfur Elemental
2x Shattering Spree
2x Spellskite
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Stingscourger
1x Emrakul

Thoughts:
I ended up cutting a Sulfur Elemental (3 -> 2) and a SoFaI (1 -> 0) for 2x Shattering Spree, after a couple long and frustating games against Grafdigger's Cage. Although, I've been thinking about cutting a Pyrokinesis for a Sword of Fire and Ice but I've been having really good games with Pyro lately, so I'm kind of on the edge. Koth feels really great in the deck. Often -2 him after Moggcatcher is active to fetch Kiki-Jiki, copy Moggcatcher and fetch for SGC/Rabblemaster. Sharpshooter really slows down Elves and any token based deck that people play. I had troubles against Omnitell but I think I just didn't keep good enough hands. I went to six on with 3 lands, no trinisphere or chalice and didn't mulligan because I was scared of losing with a five card. He ended up exiling my turn 1 rabblemaster with Swords and then I durdled around for a couple turns before he finished me off. My buddy is running a list with 1x Rabblemaster and 4x Imperial Recruiter(At a different LGS) and has been liking it a lot, getting 4-0 quite a few times. I think he mentioned wanting more rabblemasters. I feel like Rabblemaster overshadows SGC, but SGC is much stronger against Stoneblade decks, or any deck where I need to be bringing in Ensnaring Bridge.

Has anyone else had fun with similar lists? I've really been liking these new goblin lists.

[maverick_87it]

Hi guys, I'm Italian so sorry for my english. I follow you from a long time because I play the deck from many years, from the hellbent-dragon version, to actually goblin, through werewolf.


Actually I'm playing goblin-stompy version, really I don't have much feeling with Moggcatcher, but now this is my best list that I came with this version:

12 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Moggcatcher
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Goblin Settler
4 Sudden Shock
1 Stingscourger
SB: 3/4 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Ricochet Trap
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3/2 Koth of the hammer
SB: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 1 Stingscourger
SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter

How we can see, I have cut Trinisphere from my list, for the strong redundancy of our "pole", I think that now it isn't fundamental as are moon or chalice (at least until printing a creature with trinisphere's ability :smile:).
I have lost a lot of game for this reasons: too many pole in my hand and no finisher, I died from a fast delver or from first creature that enter before chalice. So now I prefer sudden shock to trinisphere for a better control of the board.

What do you think about trinisphere?

[Zupponn]

I think cutting Trinisphere is a mistake. It's very possibly the best first turn play in the deck and really your only hope against Omnitell.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I think cutting Trinisphere is a mistake. It's very possibly the best first turn play in the deck and really your only hope against Omnitell.

I'm inclined to agree. I have more memories of getting a free win with Trinsisphere than I have with Blood Moon, on turn 1. It's also one of the couple of things we can do to beat combo. It's at its actual worst in creature match-ups and is still backbreaking early. I guess now that I'm thinking about it I end up shaving 1 to 2 when I board against those decks, but ultimately our opening hand is far more important than theirs, and I build with that knowledge.

[maverick_87it]

Ok but versus combo we have already CotV.
CotV stops almost all decks and Moon is often game win in addition to protect us from wasteland.
Trinisphere i don't find most fundamental, it's strong versus counter decks, but then I prefer play Red Elemental Blast or Trap to protect CotV or Moon.

Do not get me wrong, I love Trinisphere, I have play it always, gave the best in the werewolf version for Instigator and I played 4 Avalanche and 3 Stone Rain, so ok I can put it in my side like this:
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Ricochet Trap
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Koth of the hammer
SB: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 1 Stingscourger
SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshoote

But the question is if you consider Trinisphere essential to play in the maindeck

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Yes.

Yes, because it is live againat every deck.

Yes, because it plays off our golden mana (2)(r).

Yes, because when it's bad it's still straining their resources to roughly 1 play a turn.

And lastly yes, because I don't think just 4 Chalice of the Void is enough to get around the amount of interaction Force of Will and friends provide. Think redundency.

[kkoie]

I have been personally testing this deck for a few weeks, so I do not have the long term experience that some players have with this deck. I have found, in testing against a variety of decks, that trinisphere is rarely a dead draw, except when I happen to draw it in multiples.

I have also been trying out the goblin verion with imperial recruiters (I have a set, so I figured why the heck not), and while I found that running 4 seems to flood the deck, and cuts down on the number of useful goblins, I have been happy with running 2. They typically act as moggcatcher / magus of the moon #5 & 6; but have also helped me out when trying to hunt up sideboard creatures as well. Granted this is only a few weeks testing and I won't get a chance to try them out in any style of tournament setting until this weekend. In the end, I may end up cutting the rest of my recruiters in favor of more goblins.

[maverick_87it]

I have tested this night without trinisphere. In the side out 3 trinispher for 3 bridge.

I have played versus:

Bug shardless 1-2. Very strange list, in main he played a lot of basic lands and toxic deluge, he wins the last ones with 3 decay. I win with fast rabblemaster. I have side in bridge because Tarmo it's to big for us, but he have decay.

UR delver 2-1. G1 chalice rabble win. G2 side in ratchet bomb but mulligan to 5, Fow on moon, lost. G3 moon, ratchet bomb to 1, moggcatcher win.

Patriot 2-0. Chalice rabble win. G2 side in bomb because he have 4 delver 2 batterskull. Turn1 I play moggcatcher, meddling mage on moon, but it's easy for me.

Affinity 1-2. He started too fast, etched champion and cranial plating. G2 side out moon effect for bridge koth and ratchet bomb. Enter bridge and I win with sgc+koth. G3 He plays 4 spells, I ratchet bomb to 0 reset him, he restarts with 4 spells, I don't see bridge, rabblemaster can't nothing versus 3 etched champion.

So the conclusion is: tonight in which match I needed trinisphere? The reply is only versus affinity.

Ps: rabblemaster it's very very strong, if it enter and the first token not die, it becomes very big. So I'm considering to play taurean mauler, it's also a goblin and seems very good with rabble

[0dysseus]

Just bought my Moggcatchers and Kiki-Jiki 3:) I'll try only 1 Goblin Rabblemaster in the beginning though, trying to pair the goblin toolbox with Kargan Dragonlords, Stormbreath Dragons and/or 2-3 Prophetic Flamespeakers. (I don't know who plays Engineered Plague, but anyway.) I don't wanna miss 2 Bonfire either.

I've just found/remembered there is a budget oldie from Urza's and 7th: Goblin Gardener, just in case you don't wanna spend 40+ euros/dollars for Goblin Settler.

- cons:
It must be sent to the graveyard somehow (via Jitte, Siege-Gang, Sharpshooter, or surprise blocking through Moggcatcher)
It must reach the graveyard (and not be bounced or exiled, in response)

+ pros:
It has a power of 2, in comparison to Settler.
It also has a 1 toughness (can be easily killed), and can be cast with the same mana (3R).
It's about 10 jugs of beer cheaper.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Just bought my Moggcatchers and Kiki-Jiki 3:)
Congrats! :cool:


I'll try just 1 Goblin Rabblemaster in the beginning though.
I was an enormous skeptic regarding Rabblemaster because I kept evalutating him from a Vial Goblins standpoint (and because he pre-sold for $5 so it is difficult to pay anything higher than that...). He is arguably the best goblin in this build though.


I've just found/remembered there is a budget oldie from Saga and 7th: Goblin Gardener, just in case you don't wanna spend 40+ euros/dollars for Goblin Settler.

- cons:
It must be sent to the graveyard somehow (via Jitte, Siege-Gang, Sharpshooter, or surprise blocking through Moggcatcher)
It must reach the graveyard (and not be bounced or exiled, in response)

+ pros:
It has a power of 2, in comparison to Settler.
It also has a 1 toughness (can be easily killed), and can be cast with the same mana (3R).
It's about 10 jugs of beer cheaper.
Ghost Quarter is about 10 jugs of beer cheaper than Wasteland.
Just something to consider... Without a way to sac the Gardener, he's just a Goblin Bully that costs :3::r:.


Oh yeah! I had been testing 2 Settlers in the main. 1 or 0 is probably the correct number. 2 was too many.

[0dysseus]

Congrats! :cool:


I was an enormous skeptic regarding Rabblemaster because I kept evalutating him from a Vial Goblins standpoint (and because he pre-sold for $5 so it is difficult to pay anything higher than that...). He is arguably the best goblin in this build though.


Ghost Quarter is about 10 jugs of beer cheaper than Wasteland.
Just something to consider... Without a way to sac the Gardener, he's just a Goblin Bully that costs :3::r:.


Oh yeah! I had been testing 2 Settlers in the main. 1 or 0 is probably the correct number. 2 was too many.

Thanx! I'm eager to see them in action.

I understand that the Moggcatchers' abilities plus the tokens from Rabblemasters are perhaps the "card draw" we want. Evasion and tougher bodies are my concern mostly, but I may be exaggerating this.

I understand and agree with you that Settler is far better, since I imagine no one will play Torpor Orb against DS. But Gardener still has many ways to be "sacrificed" indirectly. Jugs aside, I am an amateur player and I dislike paying that much for just a single card.. It's fortunate I built the core of DS long ago, otherwise I wouldn't even be here. Glad you guys say that the deck can play well without Settlers -and Imperial Recruiters too.

[edit: a Kiki-Jiki-ed Goblin Gardener can also do the job EOT]

[Ace/Homebrew]

a Kiki-Jiki-ed Goblin Gardener can also do the job EOT
Excellent point!

I guess where I'm coming from is, Settler's value in the deck is still being tested beyond having one in the sideboard... so using Gardner is likely to skew your opinion towards bad any time the cons above are relevant. But either gets the job done with Kiki-Jiki. :wink:

[jrcelso]

Hey everyone!!

Just picked up the deck recently to play in local events -- my meta's kinda unusual, a lot of cloudpost going on. To start, I'm working with Zac Turgeon's (guessing it's "ZTurgeon" on this thread?) list from Buncha Duals in November 2014 because I liked the thought process of Jitte in the mainboard.

Question for him and the rest of the group here -- why Goblin Piledriver in the sideboard? My reaction was that it was to swing through True-Name Nemesis, but aren't the decks that play TNN have access to non-blue removal for Piledriver. Other thoughts I have as I'm typing this is both for Merfolk (not popular here) or Jace (seems reasonable if that's the case). Would SoFI be a reasonable replacement since we don't have much access to card draw while providing us some removal/damage in the process?

I can't wait to start jamming with this in some live events and to contribute to this thread! :smile::cool::laugh:

- Jon

[ZTurgeon]

Hey everyone!!

Just picked up the deck recently to play in local events -- my meta's kinda unusual, a lot of cloudpost going on. To start, I'm working with Zac Turgeon's (guessing it's "ZTurgeon" on this thread?) list from Buncha Duals in November 2014 because I liked the thought process of Jitte in the mainboard.

Question for him and the rest of the group here -- why Goblin Piledriver in the sideboard? My reaction was that it was to swing through True-Name Nemesis, but aren't the decks that play TNN have access to non-blue removal for Piledriver. Other thoughts I have as I'm typing this is both for Merfolk (not popular here) or Jace (seems reasonable if that's the case). Would SoFI be a reasonable replacement since we don't have much access to card draw while providing us some removal/damage in the process?

I can't wait to start jamming with this in some live events and to contribute to this thread! :smile::cool::laugh:

- Jon
It is (was, I have cut it since because all the true name decks now run 4 stoneforges) for true name, merfolk, and combo decks. I won many games by playing him, then using kiki to copy him and deal a ton of damage. Right now I have a bunch of smashes in my side because of that Jeskai Stoneblade deck and how bad of a match it is for us.

[Zupponn]

So the conclusion is: tonight in which match I needed trinisphere? The reply is only versus affinity.
This thread always seems to come back to the age old question of Trinisphere or no Trinisphere now and again. Personally, I've won too many games off of Trinisphere for me to cut it. T1 Trinisphere either eats up a FOW or gives you Time Walk for 2 or 3 turns. Either situation is extremely good for you as they help set up either a Moon effect or a Chalice. It also shuts down both Storm and Omnitell, which would both kick our asses without it.

So I'm considering to play taurean mauler, it's also a goblin and seems very good with rabble
Mauler is extremely bad. Don't try it.

I guess where I'm coming from is, Settler's value in the deck is still being tested beyond having one in the sideboard... so using Gardner is likely to skew your opinion towards bad any time the cons above are relevant. But either gets the job done with Kiki-Jiki. :wink:
I've been tinkering around a tad and have again come to the conclusion that I hate Goblin Settler in the main. Rakka Mar just feels better in most situations. Now, against a deck like Miracles or Show and Tell decks, I think that Settler seems better, so I cut my Sharpshooter for Settler in the Side. The other sideboard change that I've made has been to cut the third Anarchy for the third Pyrokinesis. Pyrokinesis is live against more decks than Anarchy and really good against the Delver decks, so it gets more of a nod for now.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I've got 4 Pyrokinesis in board and I'm not looking back. It' just absurd in too many places. I'd main it if we didn't already have that disadvantage in Chrome Mox and Simian Spirit Guide.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Inspired by a list I happened to come across on Cockatrice

Stompy Gobbos (or Of Moggs and Men)
13 Core
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Moggcatcher
3 Kikki-Jikki, Mirror Breaker

5 Toolbox
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Sting Scourger
1 Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

8 Moons
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon

8 MUDballs
4 Trinisphere
4 Sphere of Resistance

4 Burn
4 Tarfire

22 Mana
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain

---

Playing Dark Maverick against a list similar to this one, I can attest to the sheer brutality that is a Kikki-Jikki copying any other Goblin. And while I can see how it wouldn't be good to play him in a standard gobbos list, he's just brilliant with a stompy manabase backing him up.

So I posted a similar list in the Vial Goblins thread, but Olaf suggested I post in here with it instead. Basically, this is a mashup of Vial Goblins and Stompy Goblins, using KJ with Ringleader and Matron to generate lots of card quality/card advantage and teching an infinite combo with a single Zealous Conscripts in case we need to pull a win from behind.

[Ace/Homebrew]

What have people running the Moggcatcher build been doing against Burn?

I remember this being a fairly positive matchup when I ran the traditional Hellbent Dragon Stompy. But Gathan Raiders is much larger than any of the creatures in the Catcher build and I'm pretty sure I was running 4 Trinispheres maindeck (now I'm running 3, with 1 in the board)...

I've been boarding out 4 Blood Moon; boarding in a Settler, the 4th Trinisphere, Stingscourger, and a Pyrokinesis. I'm still having some difficulty though. My occasional win against them comes from landing Trinisphere then Moggcatcher >> Settler >> Kiki.

[Zupponn]

So I posted a similar list in the Vial Goblins thread, but Olaf suggested I post in here with it instead. Basically, this is a mashup of Vial Goblins and Stompy Goblins, using KJ with Ringleader and Matron to generate lots of card quality/card advantage and teching an infinite combo with a single Zealous Conscripts in case we need to pull a win from behind.
I see a few issues with your list. The first is that the manabase hardly looks like it can support your mana requirements. The next is that 3 Kiki-Jiki is a lot. You only ever want one of them, so you would probably be better off running 4 Moggcatchers and 1 Kiki-Jiki rather than 2 and 3. The final thing is that Ringleader is going to be pretty bad in your list. You're only running 19 Goblin cards. Your odds of whiffing on the Ringleader become pretty high with such a low Goblin count.

What have people running the Moggcatcher build been doing against Burn?
I've only played against burn once since the change from Hellbent to Goblin lists and I lost to Eidolon of the Great Revel. Many times in the past I've won games mostly through Trinisphere and Chalice plus pressure. One of my favorite plays of all time is:

Opponent: Mountain, suspend Rift Bolt, pass
Me: Ancient Tomb, Exile Simian Spirit Guide, Trinisphere

[Quasim0ff]

I've only played against burn once since the change from Hellbent to Goblin lists and I lost to Eidolon of the Great Revel. Many times in the past I've won games mostly through Trinisphere and Chalice plus pressure. One of my favorite plays of all time is:

Opponent: Mountain, suspend Rift Bolt, pass
Me: Ancient Tomb, Exile Simian Spirit Guide, Trinisphere
I'm sorry, but isn't that your favorite line in any matchup?

[0dysseus]

Excellent point!

I guess where I'm coming from is, Settler's value in the deck is still being tested beyond having one in the sideboard... so using Gardner is likely to skew your opinion towards bad any time the cons above are relevant. But either gets the job done with Kiki-Jiki. :wink:

Thank you :) I understand you try to help me not to see the G.Settler slot [or G.Gardener slot] with "false discrimination", due to the sub-par effectiveness of Gardener. Many people have suggested land destruction in the two Dragon Stompy threads (old & new). Problem is, the land-destruction-on-that-fetched-basic plan gets wasted when we face Vials, Birds, Hierarchs, moxes, deathrite shamans, etc. So, the reason I'm considering Settler/Gardener is that we also run Scrapper and Redcap, which can take care of other mana sources as well - if this is really the best solution, and not a Siege Gang! but anyway, I like the toolbox, and i'll test it maindeck for sure. I can always imagine (while playing) what would the immediate effect be if Gardener was Settler (or Siege Gang:laugh:) I also undestood why you played more than 1 Rabblemaster in the end...it does apply a lot of pressure and so very early.


[...]

Opponent: Mountain, suspend Rift Bolt, pass
Me: Ancient Tomb, Exile Simian Spirit Guide, Trinisphere

That's a sick turn 1 play vs burn ---^ I've done it too :) the card i personally fear most when I play vs Burn is Smash to Smithereens.
I'm trying to read as many of this thread's last pages, congrats on your 13th place Zupponn^^


I'm sorry, but isn't that your favorite line in any matchup?

No, it's not. If you know by t2 that your opponent runs Wasteland, then think twice about playing your sol land into chalice or Trini. I'd play Rabblemaster or a Moon t1, and then Trini or Chalice. Let him waste the wasteland on your sol land with a fast threat down and see what happens. Well, probably (s)he won't do it.


It is (was, I have cut it since because all the true name decks now run 4 stoneforges) for true name, merfolk, and combo decks. I won many games by playing him, then using kiki to copy him and deal a ton of damage. Right now I have a bunch of smashes in my side because of that Jeskai Stoneblade deck and how bad of a match it is for us.

Zac, congrats man :D I have a question, since your list had 4 Rabblemasters, wouldn't you rather play Goblin King than Goblin Piledriver? I know he isn't pro blue, but he can be surprise-Moggcatched at the end of declare attackers and make your Goblins unblockable (7-8 Moons) and +1/+1. I like your Boartusk Liege SB!


Guys, I think I'll totally cut all the equipment (had 2 Jitte and 1 SoFI/SoLS) and play 2-3 Bonfire of the Damned main. I love its immediate effect. Speaking about immediate effect, I also agree with Olaf about how good Pyrokinesis can be. But it's what u said, the card advantage vs. the turn/mana advantage that Pyrokinesis has to offer. Sometimes not an advantage with Trinisphere in play, but ok, that sounds minor when it occasionally happens compared to the speed/mana advantage. Still, Bonfire sounds better to me. If you had any ackward situations in which you'd prefer Bonfire to Pyrokinesis, please do share it with us xD And I'm asking you especially because you like Pyrokinesis.

Other things I consider are: a singleton Gemstone Caverns maindeck till I buy my Caverns of Souls, 1 Moltensteel Dragon (you only want to see him once due to phyrexian mana, but he can be a 2 turn clock). One only (or 2 max) Lodestone Golem, perhaps in the SB (extra Trini-like effect for the late turns. Fetched Goblins are unaffected and Rabblemasters are cheap. If you don't like it, then waste it as a blocker - and if there are no attackers then it's a 4 turn clock). 1 Lightning Crafter could also help, as an instant speed response to Terminus - mass removal effects: you fetch Crafter, champion your best goblin or rakka mar, and you have a threat down after the apocalypse.

An alternative SB with 3 Bonfire main could be:

3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst (extra taxes on the late turns, extra "trinishperes" on the early ones ---> exchange with Bonfires)
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre (reanimator uncounterable "counterspell")



@ jrcelso: have a good start! :smile:

[Zupponn]

I'm sorry, but isn't that your favorite line in any matchup?
Usually, but against the T1 suspended Rift Bolt, they won't be able to cast it T2 so it remains exiled forever.

congrats on your 13th place Zupponn^^
Thanks!

An alternative SB with 3 Bonfire main could be:

3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst (extra taxes on the late turns, extra "trinishperes" on the early ones ---> exchange with Bonfires)
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre (reanimator uncounterable "counterspell")
The biggest thing I see is that both Thorn and the Golem do not work well with Trinisphere. A Brainstorm with a Trinisphere and a Thorn out still only costs 3 mana. That's why people tend to only run one or the other in Dragon Stompy. I also would still recommend looking into Anarchy as a potential option. That card is super good against things that give us trouble.

[0dysseus]

[...] The biggest thing I see is that both Thorn and the Golem do not work well with Trinisphere. A Brainstorm with a Trinisphere and a Thorn out still only costs 3 mana. That's why people tend to only run one or the other in Dragon Stompy. I also would still recommend looking into Anarchy as a potential option. That card is super good against things that give us trouble.

Well, Anarchy really is one of my favorite cards :) It's one sided mass permanent removal, and it has an immediate effect. Some of the 4 Ratchet Bombs took its place, in that SB I propose. I always try to include 1 Anarchy and 1 Shattering Spree in my SB, along with 2-3 R-bombs (which have a slower, but generic effect).

I partially agree with you concerning Thorn of Amethyst. But what if the wording was a bit different? What if the text said:

"Non-creature spells that cost 3 or more, cost 1 more to cast."

Well, it does more that that. Suddenly Show and Tell costs 4, while Rabblemaster keeps spawning guys. I think we overfocus on the conflict it has with Trinisphere on those 0-1-2 converted mana cost spells.
I'd like to say that due to studies, my testing is minimal, so don't take my ideas as sth solid. But since I'm emotionally attached to this deck, I love to brainstorm a bit, so here I am :wink: The idea is that Trini and Chalice take care of the cheap spells, while Thorn takes care of (at least) the 3+ mana ones, while we deal dmg as fast and as hard as we can. Dunno, perhaps this proves to be not a good idea.

edit: if it's you who proposed Confusion in the Ranks, then kudos, I think it is a very good option. Not only it is good as an answer, it can also be hardcast on the later turns and it definitely kicks ass when paired with those Rabblemaster tokens. Plus, it may give some use to all those "dead" Blood Moons and Trinispheres (or even SSG/Magi) we may draw later.

[The Crow's Eye]

The jig is up and folks are now throwing counters at my Moggcatchers. Should I shift gears with the deck, or is it perfectly reasonable to cardcast our Kikis and Siege Gangers?

[Blastoderm]

The jig is up and folks are now throwing counters at my Moggcatchers. Should I shift gears with the deck, or is it perfectly reasonable to cardcast our Kikis and Siege Gangers?

I usually cast a siege-gang every match...perfectly reasonable. I play 3 main but no kiki as it's bad on it's own.

[Zupponn]

edit: if it's you who proposed Confusion in the Ranks, then kudos, I think it is a very good option. Not only it is good as an answer, it can also be hardcast on the later turns and it definitely kicks ass when paired with those Rabblemaster tokens. Plus, it may give some use to all those "dead" Blood Moons and Trinispheres (or even SSG/Magi) we may draw later.
I was running Confusion for quite some time, but more recently have switched to Ensnaring Bridge. Bridge is just more useful out of the sideboard as it is relevant against a wider range of decks. Confusion is mostly just brought in against Show and Tell strategies while Bridge can help vs dexks like Merfolk or Reanimator while still being good against Show and Tell (not counting Omnitell).

[0dysseus]

I usually cast a siege-gang every match...perfectly reasonable. I play 3 main but no kiki as it's bad on it's own.

I guess you prefer not to play equipment then, for the same reason? I generally agree with your "bad on it's own" logic, but here only partially. Yes, it is good to have threats that can stand their own ground. And that was the argument against Krenko, Mob Boss : if Krenko is alone or paired with 1 creature, he doesn't do much; and if he's paired with many then he's win-more - and you'd rather cast/Moggcatch a Siege-Gang in that scenario.
But Kiki is a bit different, because he doesn't just replicate 1/1 tokens, he also replicates the abilities from your goblins. Tap Kiki on Scrapper, and you have an artifact-destruction ability each turn (that deals 2 dmg, because copy is an Ally), if the game is still stalled. Tap Kiki on Siege-Gang and it's practically the same as fetching a Siege-Gang, or activating Krenko's ability. Tap Kiki on Redcap, and you have 2 extra direct damage per turn. Not to mention the possible Settler lock. Kiki seems to me like a small Staff of Domination in this deck, and I'd rather play Kiki than equipment, because fetchable Kiki also has legs and haste even if 2/2. Even if you have a sole Kiki on the battlefield, when you cast a creature after that it's a plus because you simply "send the zombie" ahead to attack/block. But my main point is that Kiki is extra useful for continuously duplicating the toolbox's abilities. Please tell me your opinion on this.
For anyone interested to test sth funny, there is an infinite damage combo with Kiki, Sharp shooter, and Lightning Crafter (championing any other Goblin/Shaman). Sharpshooter deals 1 dmg at target, Kiki copies Crafter, the copied Crafter champions Kiki, then the copy shoots itself, then when it goes to the graveyard (and before disappearing as a token) Sharpshooter's trigger is activated and he untaps, and also Kiki returns to the battlefiels untapped. And the loop goes on. The bad with Crafter, of course, is that you can't even play him on his own, so it's probably a SB choice as a Moggcatched answer to mass destruction.


I was running Confusion for quite some time, but more recently have switched to Ensnaring Bridge. Bridge is just more useful out of the sideboard as it is relevant against a wider range of decks. Confusion is mostly just brought in against Show and Tell strategies while Bridge can help vs dexks like Merfolk or Reanimator while still being good against Show and Tell (not counting Omnitell).

Ensnaring Bridge could be my top favorite card in magic, since the time I wanted to improve "The Sparkler" Tempest-block preconstructed deck I had :cool: And it is currently in my SB.
However, trying not to be sentimental but effective when I deck build Dragon Stompy, I think twice about Confusion in the Ranks. Thrice, basically, because I also have 2-3 Bonfire main and 3-4 Ratchet Bombs SB against mass creatures. We play Bridge vs. Reanimator's Show and Tell? I don't think it's that good. Ashen Rider or Tidespout Tyrant will eat Ensnaring Bridge for breakfast.
The same will happen to Confusion in the Ranks of course, but! it will happen after the exchange, and we will have a big dude on our side, or am I wrong? I am merely asking, because I've tested Bridge, but not yet Confusion. Let's say:

Opponent plays Show and Tell to "reanimate" Griselbrand. You "reanimate" Confusion. You probably have creatures, (s)he probably has only Putrid Imp. The Confusion triggers, and he knows you will exchange Magus (or sth small) for Griselbrand... so he most probably will use the "Pay 7 life" ability in response to the Confusion's trigger and before the exchange. He draws his ass, and then Grisy is yours. Next round Grisy will draw you cards too, and he will attack. And each time the opponent brings sth big, he will have to exchange the new big for his old stolen big, worst case scenario.
The best for him could perhaps be:
(A) to play another Putrid Imp, and take back his stolen big creature giving you the puny Imp, or,
(B) bring Ashen and destroy Confusion?

In (A) you'll have tons of small dudes to cast and steal the biggy again.
In (B) Ashen will be yours finally, because the Confusion's trigger will remain on stack even after it's destroyed, and so you'll steal Ashen Rider. Whereas Ensnaring Bridge would just be destroyed.. (and don't get me wrong, it's maybe my top favorite card as I said).

I'll test Confusion anyway, but please tell me if I err, either on the trigger rulings above, or in my comparison between Confusion vs. Bridge. Don't forget that a card choice can be judged as good/bad only if you compare it to the rest of your 75. If my list's a specialist at small creature removal (Bonfire/Bombs), then perhaps what Bridge offers is win-more, and so I can focus on anti-"Show-and-Tell-like" tricks.

I could copy-paste this to the Reanimator thread, but I thought I'd rather ask here first.

[Ace/Homebrew]

For anyone interested to test sth funny, there is an infinite damage combo with Kiki, Sharp shooter, and Lightning Crafter (championing any other Goblin/Shaman). Sharpshooter deals 1 dmg at target, Kiki copies Crafter, the copied Crafter champions Kiki, then the copy shoots itself, then when it goes to the graveyard (and before disappearing as a token) Sharpshooter's trigger is activated and he untaps, and also Kiki returns to the battlefiels untapped. And the loop goes on.

Sort of... :wink:

So Goblin Sharpshooter has already been on the battlefield a turn and is 'live'.
Kiki-Jiki, the Mirror Breaker is also already on the field.

You draw and play Lightning Crafter.
Lightning Crafter enters the battlefield and the Champion trigger goes on the stack (but you haven't chosen a target yet).

Tap Sharpshooter to deal 1 damage.
Tap Kiki-Jiki to make a copy of Crafter. Crafter copy enters the battlefield with haste. Champion trigger goes on the stack. Crafter copy champions Kiki-Jiki. Crafter copy taps to deal 3 damage to itself. This returns Kiki-Jiki to the battlefield untapped and also untaps Sharpshooter because the Crafter copy token goes to the yard triggering the untap before disappearing.

Repeat.
So you never actually need a 4th goblin for the original Crafter to champion.



Having said that, I don't believe Lighting Crafter warrants a spot in this deck. And Goblin Sharpshooter's spot is in the sideboard if it is included at all...

[0dysseus]

[...]

Repeat.
So you never actually need a 4th goblin for the original Crafter to champion.


Having said that, I don't believe Lighting Crafter warrants a spot in this deck. And Goblin Sharpshooter's spot is in the sideboard if it is included at all...

Cool xD Thanx 4 the trick! You can also do the auto-shoot copied-Crafter thing first, in case Sharpshooter is tapped, and start the combo from there. I also agree on what u said, that's why I named the combo as "sth funny": It doesn't seem competitive. Yet it takes about the same number of turns (if not cards) to activate as you'd kill with Koth of the Hammer's ability. But it's perhaps more fragile to Terminus, even if you Moggcatch your Goblins @ opponents EOT (otherwise you can always fetch Crafter and "hide" your best goblin).

Koth: (1) Cast Koth, +1 loyalty [,edit: attack with Mountain if it can], and Koth has to remain undamaged. (2) +1 loyalty (5 total). (3) -5 loyalty, get emblem, mountains start shooting (damage is not red+++) And also you probably don't play spells (4) Shooting mountains hopefully end the game, if opponent's life is relatively low.

Combo: (1) Cast Moggcatcher (same mana---^), he has to live (but it's easier). (2) You wait for opponent's EOT, Moggcatching Kiki/Sharpshooter. (3) You wait for opponent's EOT Moggcatching Shaprshooter/Kiki (the other) combo part. You don't have the control effect that shooting Mountains offer, but you can still tap Kiki to copy sth with a relevant ability. (4) You Moggcatch Crafter on your upkeep, and hopefully combo off.

edit2: u can do this even one turn later, by fetching SCG first, then Kiki, then Sharpshooter, and if you haven't won by then, play your insta-gib.

I understand that the best play would be Moggcatcher > Siege Gang > Kiki, copying Siege-gang (or Rabblemaster). And sacrificing copied Goblins EOT to Commander. But since Sharpshooter can have his uses, and Crafter is a good (and tutorable) answer vs. Wrath effects, I am definitely gonna give this a shot, now that I've discovered it, and tell you guys my results.

[Zupponn]

Yeah, Koth is in there solely for the Miracles matchup where he just wins the game when he hits. They might have a Council's Judgment or Detention Sphere, but really have no way to interact with him. He easily hits 5 loyalty, ults, and wins the game.

He's the only card that I have in the side vs solely one deck, but seeing how popular Miracles is and how dominant he is in the matchup, I think he's totally worth it.

Vs your combo we have 1 good card vs 1 good card and 2 subpar cards, so I think the slot efficiency wins out here.

[0dysseus]

Slot-efficiency-wise, Koth of the Hammer is better. Still, Lightning Crafter can be tutored. And most importantly, as a response to mass removal. Before I dismiss my idea, I want to know exactly how it is when a fetched Crafter champions our Siege Gang Commander, and Gang starts partying after the mass removal effect. Or, alternatively, it can champion a Rabblemaster.
Two things are for sure here:
1) Subparness is relative, not only to the win conditions of the game, but also to the opponent ("it's like 10000 spoons, when all you need is a knife" -A.Morisette), and,
2) I can't prove anything, 'till I do.

Rabblemaster stays x4. Moggcatcher too. 2 Siege Gangs work fine. 19 lands work fine, at least till now. Let me test more, and then I'll tell you what I got :smile:

[The Crow's Eye]

The rogue Mono Red Sneak Attack decks run Seething Song to help make their plays. What makes Seething Song work for their deck as opposed to Dragon Stompy variants running stuff like Stormbreath or Thundermaw Hellkite? Both seem to be on a similar gameplan of winning quick while establishing some soft prison elements, and both play a similar mana base, the difference being MRSA's use of Sandstone Needle as well.

[ZTurgeon]

The rogue Mono Red Sneak Attack decks run Seething Song to help make their plays. What makes Seething Song work for their deck as opposed to Dragon Stompy variants running stuff like Stormbreath or Thundermaw Hellkite? Both seem to be on a similar gameplan of winning quick while establishing some soft prison elements, and both play a similar mana base, the difference being MRSA's use of Sandstone Needle as well. It's just more moving peices. When it works, it will work well, but the more things that are bad top decks, and the more things that need other things to work, the worse this deck gets.


That is why people moved to the goblin build. Moggcatcher will end the game on its own if not dealt with. Same goes for Rabblemaster.


So the game plan has moved to cheaper threats that will still end the game under a lock piece, and are playable on turns 2-3 without an extra card. Because of our lack of card selection, we just can't afford to have any more dead draws late.

[Zupponn]

Yeah, the point of the Goblin builds is to increase consistency at the cost of explosiveness. Neither way is necessarily correct, but each player is going to lean towards their own personal preferences and playstyles.

[jmlima]

Guys, quick question. I'm playing the Goblin build and recently came upon a mono-b discard deck that puts in play Liliana's Caress + Underworld Dreams.

The deck escapes the Moon effects, since it only plays basics, puts in play the two enchantments above that for the most part escape an early chalice and also puts in play Vampire Nighthawk and hippy.

I could deal with the critters but in doing so the two Underworld Dreams in play put the clock ticking, coupled with the odd discard, put me in a losing proposition.

Big ramble to ask a simple question. The only out I can think to the above is by using Ratchet Bombs to blow the enchantments. Or am I missing something?

Thanks.

[0dysseus]

Guys, quick question. I'm playing the Goblin build and recently came upon a mono-b discard deck that puts in play Liliana's Caress + Underworld Dreams.

The deck escapes the Moon effects, since it only plays basics, puts in play the two enchantments above that for the most part escape an early chalice and also puts in play Vampire Nighthawk and hippy.

I could deal with the critters but in doing so the two Underworld Dreams in play put the clock ticking, coupled with the odd discard, put me in a losing proposition.

Big ramble to ask a simple question. The only out I can think to the above is by using Ratchet Bombs to blow the enchantments. Or am I missing something?

Thanks.

Okay jmlima, first I'm going to give you a link to a post by Tacosnape, from page 87 of the old Dragon Stompy thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?7622-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=307869&viewfull=1#post307869

Somewhere in that post he's speaking of Mono Black Control as a bad matchup. I don't know if the deck you describe is exactly "MBC", and of course many things have changed since then. But this deck, and color red in Magic has a problem against Enchantments by default. My suggestions to you would be:

1) Ignore the Enchantments. I think you are indeed doing something else wrong. Because you aren't running card draw, Moggcatcher's ability also doesn't count as card draw, and opponent's discard can be countered to a level by Chalice. [Just asking: How many times did you play against him, in order to make the inference that this is a bad matchup?]

2) Use the mana core of the deck to your advantage. The main core of the deck ain't Moons for me. The core of the deck are the cards that make it possible for Moons & other lockpieces to be such a devastating play turn 1. City & Tomb & Simian & Mox; aka speed. Try playing Goblin Rabblemaster turn 1, and then Chalice, using the deck's mana explosiveness. Run 4 Rabblemasters. On the previous page I had a doubt about this quartet, but they are too good to be true (and at the right mana cost - 2R). I'm a player that often fell into the danger-of-cool-things trap, and now I try to build decks as efficient as can be, with no emotional strings attached on specific cards. So, just take the initiative, and start pounding fast, making it for them necessary to race you with Vampire Nighthawk, and thus turning discard into a bad play (because Rabblemaster & Co. beats the shit out of them in the meantime). And thus turning the opp's enchantments into a bad play. Play your game faster that the opp plays his/her. Make him follow you instead, if you can.

3) Run 2-3 Jitte :) It can kill with the -1/-1, plus it gains you back your lost life. I don't use it right now, however if you are concerned that much about life loss, you can even playtest a singleton Batterskull, or a Sword of Light and Shadow.

4) Playtest Bonfire of the Damned, or Chaos Warp main, the latter can hit enchantments. Also play Ratchet Bombs SB as you say, Pyrokinesis is very good vs. creatures too.

And be mindful that there is no deck in Magic that can do it all; finally, that you need a lot of games against that opponent in order to say that his deck's really beating this one. It could just be your unlucky day. If you had his list, we could arrange some playtesting on MWS, if u like.

[jmlima]

Firstly, many thanks for your super-informative answer.

One small note, I was not making a sweeping statement of 'this is a difficult match-up' for this deck, just wondering because it was the first time I came against something I really had no clue how to tackle with the deck I had (let alone the cards in my hand!).

Your point was also most useful. I'm sort of new to this deck (some 30 matches with the rakdos dragon version and some 10 with the goblins one - much prefer the gobos) so I'm always looking for helpful pointers about how to play it.

Thanks again!

[0dysseus]

You are right, indeed you did not make such an inference (sweeping statement). My bad. A pleasure, if I can help with an extra opinion :wink:

[Zupponn]

Your point was also most useful. I'm sort of new to this deck (some 30 matches with the rakdos dragon version and some 10 with the goblins one - much prefer the gobos) so I'm always looking for helpful pointers about how to play it.

My advice would be to practice, practice, and practice. Legacy is a wide and diverse format and learning both how your deck runs and how other decks run is very important to being successful.

Personally, I believe that mulliganing is the most difficult part of playing this deck, as there are games where your opening hand will either win or lose you the game.

If you have any other questions, we are always more than happy to give you our input. I love seeing that we're getting new Dragon Stompy players. It reminds me that others enjoy smashing the snobby blue players' faces in as well.:laugh:

[0dysseus]

:laugh: +1 for that punchline ---^ (cause it is almost literally a punch-line:)) We have new and dynamic entrieeees (as well as rusty ones like meee..) in the DS thread, blue wizards beware!! :eek:

And +10 for the "practice, practice and practice" thing.

I'd like to add that just because mulligan is important here, the addition of 1-2 Mountains to the old 18-count does feel good. Now I'm trying to find out which is the least number of Mountains in the land count, in order to reliably have double red mana by turn 4. Counting Moxes as lands in this estimation as well. If anyone has done some math like this, please share.
If you google "expected number of lands", you'll find sites with spreadsheets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0 ,

and also personal sites like this: http://www.mtgoacademy.com/expected-results-a-stable-mana-base/ .

[jmlima]

Thanks for the welcome guys! :smile:

[jmlima]

Guys, another couple of newcomer questions:

a) Is there a 'guide' about how to set Chalice for the various match-ups? (I've got one but is from my Modern past, so, no good here, and could not find anything online, my google-fu failed me!)

b) If you are on the play and have no idea what you are facing, what is the best hate to play (or mulligan to...) on the first turn ? Chalice, Trinisphere or Moons? Or is it better to play a threat and decide on hate when you have an inkling of what you are against on T2?

Thanks!

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Guys, another couple of newcomer questions:

a) Is there a 'guide' about how to set Chalice for the various match-ups? (I've got one but is from my Modern past, so, no good here, and could not find anything online, my google-fu failed me!)

b) If you are on the play and have no idea what you are facing, what is the best hate to play (or mulligan to...) on the first turn ? Chalice, Trinisphere or Moons? Or is it better to play a threat and decide on hate when you have an inkling of what you are against on T2?

Thanks!

A) I've got these notes from when I first started playing legacy. Though it was for the 4 Chalice of the Void in the board of my Vial Goblin list.


Setting Counters for Chalice of the Void.

@*, Dredge/Hive Mind: Don't use it.
@0, Belcher: You may not have another turn to play it at 1.
@0, TES (The Epic Storm)
@1, TES (The Epic Storm): If they have played their 0cc cards already, play for 1 next turn because they want to Duress you to take it out of your hand before they Tendrils of Agony or Empty the Warrens. Also stops Orim's Chant.
@1, High Tide: Stops High Tide.
@1, Reanimator: Stops Entomb, Reanimate, Careful Study of the useful cards for their combo.
@1, Elves: You've got all of their "Cantrips" (Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves, Arbor Elf, Glimpse of Nature)
@1, AdnT (Ad Nauseam, Tendrils of Agony: You need to stop their cantrips. They don't have less 0cc cards than TES.
@1, Zoo: Because bad things look like this - Wild Nacatl, Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares ... you get the idea.
@1, Stiflenought: Stops Stifle and Phyrexian Dreadnought amongst other important things.
@1, (R)(U)(G) Delver: Stops Delver of Secrets, Brainstorm, Ponder, Lightning Bolt, Forked Bolt and feels good about it.
@1, Burn: Anything that halts a Lightning Bolt must be considered

You generally just want it at 1 though.

B) In the blind you just keep working hands. Because you don't know what you're up against just assume it's a normal part of the meta, which your deck is designed to fight. I could list things like, have a Moon turn 1 or 2, a threat and mana to cast it all, but you already knew that. Opening hands are very difficult in this deck and there is probably enough finesse to write a primer on it alone. Just keep jamming and read what it feels like.

[jmlima]

Thanks, that is really useful. :smile:

[Zirath]

For Dredge, that is inaccurate. 1 is also very important because of Cabal Therapy and Faithless Looting. It depends on your hand and how you want to play the game. 0 is fine if you have no other way of stopping an explosive start (no Sol land) but I would rather play it at 1 first.

[Zupponn]

B) In the blind you just keep working hands. Because you don't know what you're up against just assume it's a normal part of the meta, which your deck is designed to fight. I could list things like, have a Moon turn 1 or 2, a threat and mana to cast it all, but you already knew that. Opening hands are very difficult in this deck and there is probably enough finesse to write a primer on it alone. Just keep jamming and read what it feels like.
This is very true, but if you have all 3 of our lock pieces in your opening hand and could easily play any of them turn 1, I think the best order would be:

Trinisphere
Chalice
Moon

Of course, the variations of cards could make it so that this may not be the correct order. I always take a good look at what I can do with just the cards in my hand and then sequence accordingly. You can't guarantee that you will draw another red source if you only have SSG, for example. In that case chalice off of your Tomb is going to be the best T1 play, and then if you get a Mox or Mountain you can hold that SSG for a Moggcatcher while still being able to lay a Moon effect T2 no matter what.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

@Zirath
As I said, they were just notes. I do agree though

[jmlima]

Thanks guys!

[potatodavid]

Browsing around the social interwebs a couple days ago. Stumble across a photo. Game state has me completely baffled, so I assume it's some form of Dragon/Moon Stompy. Board state is as follows:

Magus of the Moon x2
Chalice with 1 Counters
Chalice with 0 Counters
Stranglehold

5 Lands.

Didn't think anything about it initially, but is stranglehold a staple in moonstompy lists? Is it a card that should be put in the consideration radar. It seems back breaking for a lot of decks, Dodges abrupt decay, hoses SFM/Fetches. Is it worth the Sideboard slot?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Stranglehold
Sure it wasn't Vintage?
Time Walk is a thing in that format. It was probably a Budget Moon Aggro (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24557-TMWA-Budget-Moon-aggro) style deck.


I always wanted to use Stanglehold, but it costs 1 mana too much. And Legacy doesn't really care about extra turns. :rolleyes:

[nonja]

I always wanted to use Stanglehold, but it costs 1 mana too much. And Legacy doesn't really care about extra turns. :rolleyes:

But it cares about library searching - this thing shuts down fetchlands, tutors, etc. But this deck already has too much hate: 8 moons, 4 chalice, X trinisphere, so Stranglehold is win more

[snoop_x]

Browsing around the social interwebs a couple days ago. Stumble across a photo. Game state has me completely baffled, so I assume it's some form of Dragon/Moon Stompy. Board state is as follows:

Magus of the Moon x2
Chalice with 1 Counters
Chalice with 0 Counters
Stranglehold

5 Lands.

Didn't think anything about it initially, but is stranglehold a staple in moonstompy lists? Is it a card that should be put in the consideration radar. It seems back breaking for a lot of decks, Dodges abrupt decay, hoses SFM/Fetches. Is it worth the Sideboard slot?

yeah, this looks like my board state the other day I was playing. I was actually playing against Hive Mind. Stranglehold actually won me that game. I was playing goblin stompy. I actually like playing stranglehold because it does hose so many cards in legacy and is not completely dead in later draws.

I know stranglehold seems clunky, but it's always been backbreaking when it hits play. I have had nothing but success with it and it's another must answer card. I rather see a stranglehold instead of another blood moon when I already have one down on the field. I'm not saying that it's an auto add, but I have found success with it.

Lands:
4x city of traitors
4x ancient tomb
2x cavern of souls
9x mountains

creatures:
4x moggcatcher
3x rabblemaster
2x siege-gang
1x kiki-jiki
1x goblin settler
1x murderous redcap
1x stingscourger
1x tuktuk scrapper
4x moon man
4x SSG

spells:
4x chrome mox
4x chalice
3x trini
3x bloodmoon
2x stranglehold
1x Chandra, pyromaster
1x jitte
1x SoFI

SB:
3x pyrokinesis
3x bridges
3x faerie macabre
1x stingscourger
1x goblin king
2x koth
1x scrapper
1x sharpshooter

[LeoCop 90]

There is also widespread panic that has the ideal cost of 2R and punishes people for searching library. I do agree with nonja that we already have plenty of hate pieces for the format. and if we want to include another one, it'd better be much more powerful.

[MGB]

The problem with all of these hate pieces that affect fetchlands - like Stranglehold, Widespread Panic, and Suppression Field - is that they are sorcery speed and usually come down no earlier than Turn 2. To be maximally effective, they need to be played Turn 1, on the play, with a Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal PLUS a Sol-Land. This situation is definitely less than 20% of situations in which you draw these hate pieces.

In the vast majority of situations in which you draw your Stranglehold, Widespread Panic, or Suppression Field, your opponent will have already played a fetch or two, and will fetch in response to the casting of the hate piece. And then he will probably either have another non-fetch land in his hand, or topdeck more. If that happens, you essentially played a blank card - not only losing card advantage, but losing out on tempo because you spent a whole turn's worth of mana on something that isn't doing anything for you.

These cards are deceptive because in that <20% of situations in which you get them in play, on the play, against an opponent with a grip full of fetchlands, they're AWESOME. But in *most* situations, they end up being liabilities.

[snoop_x]

I added stranglehold because it has a bit more application than just an early fetch stopper. It's still effective as a later play. It stops SFM, intuition, tutor pieces, and fetches that will be played later. I've had too many times where I drew moon after moon and decided that I don't need 8 moons. So I'm playing 7 moons. Was only playing one stranglehold, but decided to up it to two. I know I'm the minority on my decision on adding the card, but I like it's effect and that it's not completely dead on later draws.

[potatodavid]

I added stranglehold because it has a bit more application than just an early fetch stopper. It's still effective as a later play. It stops SFM, intuition, tutor pieces, and fetches that will be played later. I've had too many times where I drew moon after moon and decided that I don't need 8 moons. So I'm playing 7 moons. Was only playing one stranglehold, but decided to up it to two. I know I'm the minority on my decision on adding the card, but I like it's effect and that it's not completely dead on later draws.

Well, I got some insight. I thought it was a pretty neat idea, especially because there's plenty of ways to kill bloodmoon effects, thanks for posting your list. I plan on trying it out.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Had a fairly successful night at my LGS.

11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sudden Demise

Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Stone Rain
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
2 Sudden Demise
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

There were 34 players so the structure was 'the top 8 after 5 rounds split' rather than '4 rounds, then top 8 play it out'.
The decent turnout was probably due to GP Oaks, PA happening this weekend. :rolleyes:

Round 1: Khari with UWR Stoneblade. 2-0
He had no idea this deck was even a thing. 2-0 pretty easily.

Round 2: Brian with Dredge. 2-1
He was aware this deck exists but had never played against it. I took game 1 with turn 1 Chalice @1 followed by turn 2 Magus. Lost game 2 when I mulled to 4. Took game 3 on the back of turn 1 Chalice @1 followed by turn 2 Magus (go with what works, right?).

Round 3: Mike with Infect. 0-2
My turn to play a deck that I've never played... I lost game 1 when I mulled to 4. I lost game 2 on turn 3. Wah wah...

Round 4: Zach with Miracles. 2-1
Lost game one after getting stuck on 2 Mountains. I boarded in 3 Stone Rain, 2 Settlers, Kiki, my 4th Koth, and 4th Trinisphere. Game 2 poor Zach never had a chance once he let my turn 1 Trinisphere resolve. I followed it with a turn 2 Moggcatcher. Turn 3 I fetched up Settler. Turn 4 I searched up Kiki.
Game 3 two Stone Rains destroyed an Island and ate a FoW + :u: card.

Round 5: Jeff with Sneak and Show. 2-1
I mull to 5 but still pull out a win thanks to top decking back to back Rabblemasters. Game 2 he got Sneak Attack online. Game 3 he never really had a chance. I had an active Moggcatcher on the board just waiting to search up a Stingscourger if he cast Sneak Attack. In my hand was an Emrakul in case he played Show and Tell.

Won $42.50 in credit.
That plus the credit I got for trading in 4 The Dark Blood Moons along with my Onslaught non-foil Heath, Strand, and Foothills and a couple bucks got me Khans foil Windswept Heath, Flooded Strand, and Wooded Foothills for Cromat. :cool:

[Captain Hammer]

Has anyone tried out a version of this deck with a slight artifact splash along with Daretti, Scrap Savant. The card seems really solid and it fits in this decks curve perfectly.


The problem with the deck IMO isn't a lack of hate pieces, it's a card draw and the resulting lack of consistent threats.

That's why I was curious about your thoughts on two of the spoiled cards for potential use in this deck.

They are...

Vaultbreaker 3R
Dash 2R, When this attacks, you may discard a card then draw a card.
4/2

This deck has lots of dead cards in your hand that you can easily dump anyways. Plus the 4 power and the Dash make it very aggressive.

Outpost Siege 3R
Enchantment
At the start of each of your turns, reveal the top card of your library, you may cast it that turn.

I think it definitely adds some much needed consistency to the deck.

[Alex Holland]

Has anyone tried out a version of this deck with a slight artifact splash along with Daretti, Scrap Savant. The card seems really solid and it fits in this decks curve perfectly.


The problem with the deck IMO isn't a lack of hate pieces, it's a card draw and the resulting lack of consistent threats.

That's why I was curious about your thoughts on two of the spoiled cards for potential use in this deck.

They are...

Vaultbreaker 3R
Dash 2R, When this attacks, you may discard a card then draw a card.
4/2

This deck has lots of dead cards in your hand that you can easily dump anyways. Plus the 4 power and the Dash make it very aggressive.

Outpost Siege 3R
Enchantment
At the start of each of your turns, reveal the top card of your library, you may cast it that turn.

I think it definitely adds some much needed consistency to the deck.

IMO they seem trash.

I do like the red mythic:

Sorcerer of the great hunt- orc shaman 4/2 HASTE, if a creature u control deals damage +1/+1 counter and a for stompy irrelevant draw ability.

3R is kinda expensive but the haste makes up for this. Plus imagine attacking with rabblemaster and this making all your creatures even more fatter. Thats Good. Very Good!

[The Crow's Eye]

Not Dragon Stompy, but it does have a number of soft-lock pieces involved: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_angel_prison_with_jo.html

Is there anything that we could take from this deck's noncreature lineup? Notably, they play more lands and opt for Mox Diamond as opposed to Chrome Mox and seem to employ 3 CMC enchantments to help lock the field as we do with Blood Moon.

[potatodavid]

Had a fairly successful night at my LGS.

11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sudden Demise

Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Stone Rain
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
2 Sudden Demise
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

There were 34 players so the structure was 'the top 8 after 5 rounds split' rather than '4 rounds, then top 8 play it out'.
The decent turnout was probably due to GP Oaks, PA happening this weekend. :rolleyes:

Round 1: Khari with UWR Stoneblade. 2-0
He had no idea this deck was even a thing. 2-0 pretty easily.

Round 2: Brian with Dredge. 2-1
He was aware this deck exists but had never played against it. I took game 1 with turn 1 Chalice @1 followed by turn 2 Magus. Lost game 2 when I mulled to 4. Took game 3 on the back of turn 1 Chalice @1 followed by turn 2 Magus (go with what works, right?).

Round 3: Mike with Infect. 0-2
My turn to play a deck that I've never played... I lost game 1 when I mulled to 4. I lost game 2 on turn 3. Wah wah...

Round 4: Zach with Miracles. 2-1
Lost game one after getting stuck on 2 Mountains. I boarded in 3 Stone Rain, 2 Settlers, Kiki, my 4th Koth, and 4th Trinisphere. Game 2 poor Zach never had a chance once he let my turn 1 Trinisphere resolve. I followed it with a turn 2 Moggcatcher. Turn 3 I fetched up Settler. Turn 4 I searched up Kiki.
Game 3 two Stone Rains destroyed an Island and ate a FoW + :u: card.

Round 5: Jeff with Sneak and Show. 2-1
I mull to 5 but still pull out a win thanks to top decking back to back Rabblemasters. Game 2 he got Sneak Attack online. Game 3 he never really had a chance. I had an active Moggcatcher on the board just waiting to search up a Stingscourger if he cast Sneak Attack. In my hand was an Emrakul in case he played Show and Tell.

Won $42.50 in credit.
That plus the credit I got for trading in 4 The Dark Blood Moons along with my Onslaught non-foil Heath, Strand, and Foothills and a couple bucks got me Khans foil Windswept Heath, Flooded Strand, and Wooded Foothills for Cromat. :cool:


What's the Flying Spaghetti monster in the sideboard for?

[Ace/Homebrew]

What's the Flying Spaghetti monster in the sideboard for?

Our matchup against Painter's Servant isn't exactly favorable. We do similar things but they can combo kill us. Emrakul's shuffle clause gives us a 'freebie' because they shouldn't expect it on their first attempt to combo.

It is also decent against any deck playing Show and Tell. :laugh:

[Zupponn]

If you look back a couple pages at my SCG Open report, I won a game against Reanimator with it.

[Ace/Homebrew]

11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sudden Demise

Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Stone Rain
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
2 Sudden Demise
2 Phyrexian Revoker

Twenty-four player weekly. Went 3-1. Top 8 split cause it was late.

Round 1: Joe with Death and Taxes. 1-2
He wins the 3rd game off a CoP:Red, which would have been fine if I drew Rabblemaster instead of lands 5-9...

Round 2: Other Joe with Stiflenaught Homebrew. 2-0
Joe is a Modern player giving Legacy a try.

Round 3: Martin with UWR Stoneblade. 2-0
Game 1 is grindy. I end up outracing a Jitte-equipped TNN. Game 2 I land Blood Moon early. He scoops when I copied Moggcatcher with Kiki, then used each Catcher to find a Settler.

Round 4: Alex with Lands. 2-0
Poor guy.


Won $30 in credit.
Picked up a foil Treasure Cruise for Cromat as well as a Primeval Titan and Loop Mountain.

Revoker was a better use of 2 sideboard slots (over Chandra, Pyromaster).
What I have been doing most often is boarding out:
2 Koth of the Hammer
1-2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

and boarding in:
1-2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Trinisphere
3 Stone Rain

Any kind of grindy deck cannot handle the attack on their manabase. :laugh:

[potatodavid]

11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sudden Demise

Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Stone Rain
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
2 Sudden Demise
2 Phyrexian Revoker

Twenty-four player weekly. Went 3-1. Top 8 split cause it was late.

Round 1: Joe with Death and Taxes. 1-2
He wins the 3rd game off a CoP:Red, which would have been fine if I drew Rabblemaster instead of lands 5-9...

Round 2: Other Joe with Stiflenaught Homebrew. 2-0
Joe is a Modern player giving Legacy a try.

Round 3: Martin with UWR Stoneblade. 2-0
Game 1 is grindy. I end up outracing a Jitte-equipped TNN. Game 2 I land Blood Moon early. He scoops when I copied Moggcatcher with Kiki, then used each Catcher to find a Settler.

Round 4: Alex with Lands. 2-0
Poor guy.


Won $30 in credit.
Picked up a foil Treasure Cruise for Cromat as well as a Primeval Titan and Loop Mountain.

Revoker was a better use of 2 sideboard slots (over Chandra, Pyromaster).
What I have been doing most often is boarding out:
2 Koth of the Hammer
1-2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

and boarding in:
1-2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Trinisphere
3 Stone Rain

Any kind of grindy deck cannot handle the attack on their manabase. :laugh:

Okay... what the hell is a loop mountain

[Ace/Homebrew]

Okay... what the hell is a loop mountain

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/zen/244.jpg

[potatodavid]

Seems K

[Unassigned]

I've been testing this for some time now and likely going to be running the following list in Indy... Thoughts?

7 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Gemstone Cavern

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
2 Imperial Recruiter
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Blood Moon
2 Koth of the Hammer

SB: 3 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 Stingscourger
SB: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Goblin Settler
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel (Formerly 4 Thorn of Amethyst)

[potatodavid]

I've been testing this for some time now and likely going to be running the following list in Indy... Thoughts?

7 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Gemstone Cavern

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
2 Imperial Recruiter
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Blood Moon
2 Koth of the Hammer

SB: 3 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 Stingscourger
SB: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Goblin Settler
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel (Formerly 4 Thorn of Amethyst)

Have you really found Gemstone Caverns to be that good? They seem so much better as a pair of mountains.

[Unassigned]

Have you really found Gemstone Caverns to be that good? They seem so much better as a pair of mountains.

They've been solid enough for me. They started out as a sideboard slot from the November SCG Marshall Arthurs list and I slowly began to move them into the main. I'm +1 land than normal as well, so it's been just another way to land earlier threats.

I've considered adding 3 Goblin Rabblemasters into the sideboard as well, but unsure what I'd prefer to cut.

[Unassigned]

Outpost Siege is really, really good in this deck. I've been running a pair of them main, with a potential third if I move Koth to the sideboard.

[nodahero]

Hey guys!!

I just ran the following list back to a 3-1 record. The board was a joke and didn't really add match outside of the Pyrokinesis and the Ensnaring Bridge.

List
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Mountains
4 Simian Spiritguide

4 Bloodmoon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 (I don't remember)


Round 1--- Zach playing Dark Maverick
2-1
Game 1--- Turn 1 Blood Moon into turn 2 Chalice into turn 3 Moggcatcher fetching Siege Gang and then Rabblemaster. The bloodmoon essentially locked him out with the exception of the loan fetch and DRS he had access to.
Game 2 --- I he opened on Fetch into Forest into DRS and I never really got in this game. My only red source was a SSG and my only land was an Anicent Tomb (I was probably greedy on this keep).
Game 3--- I landed a turn 2 Rabblemaster into a turn 3 Rabblemaster into an Ensnaring Bridge to prevent counter swings from his Knight. I did cast a Pyrokinesis at one point in this game to clear away his blockers and then to let my Rabblemasters finish him off.

Round 2--- Clayton playing ANT
1-2
Game 1--- I land a turn 1 Chalice at one followed by a turn 2 Blood Moon and followed up by turn 3 Moggcatcher. He cast one spell the whole game and that was a turn 1 Preordain leaving a Duress and IoK on top since I tend to play control decks.
Game 2--- I land a turn 1 Bloodmoon on the draw however he has an Island and double Lotus Petal in hand and he kills me on turn 3 off of a Past in Flames.
Game 3--- I turn 1 Bloodmoon on the play however, he has both basics in his opener and cast turn 4 Ad Nauseam while I never drew land 3 to cast my Trinisphere I drew turn 2.

Round 3--- Darrel on Miracles
2-0
My notes on this match are very scarce…
Game 1--- I had a turn 2 Moonman off a Caves to protect it followed by a Moggcatcher that I road to a lot of free cards.
Game 2--- I land a turn 1 Trinisphere with no Top in play from him. He blind plays a turn 3 Counterbalance I follow-up with a turn 3 Bloodmoon. He plays a turn 4 Jace and I land a turn 4 Koth to which he has no answer and concedes.

Round 4--- Corrie on Misthallow Foodchains
2-0
Game 1--- I land a turn 1 Chalice on the play (first time I won a die roll all day). I follow that up with a turn 2 Magus to which he fetches Island. I land a turn 3 Gobblin Settler taking out his Island and just go straight beatdown. I wouldn't have known what he was playing for game 2 but, he cast the spell that exiles 3 cards of his choice and then I saw the Griffins.
Game 2--- I land a turn 1 Chalice on the draw with him having an active DRS. Most of my manabase is AT so my life dwindles fast however I cast a turn 3 Chalice for 4 with double SSG. He Decays the chalice on 1 so he can go beatdown with Heriarchs that were locked in his hand. I land a Bridge and start casting cards left and right so that I am the only player able to attack and eventually I start machine gunning down his dudes with SGC and Kikijiki.

[dte]

I do not get why not to play goblin settler with 4 trini, 8 moon-effects, Moggcatcher and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker ?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I also 3-1'd my local. :cool:

11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Koth of the Hammer
3 Sudden Demise

Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Stone Rain
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
1 Sudden Demise
2 Phyrexian Revoker

Twenty-four players again. Top 8 split cause it was late.

Round 1: Craig with Dredge. 2-0
He mulled to 5 both games and I had whatever I needed to keep him from getting a chance.
Moggcatcher for Murderous Redcap is so satisfying to do against Dredge. He clears bridges AND kills a Narcomeoba without giving them zombies. :laugh:

Round 2: Seth with Siege Rhino Maverick. 1-2
Lost game 1 cause stuck on 2 mana. Game 2 he never had a chance and scooped after a few turns. Game 3 I mulled to 5 cause 7 and 6 had only 1 or two lands... I kept 2x Mountain, 2x Sol Land, Spirit Guide hand figuring I had mana to play anything. I only drew lands and Spirit Guides though. :frown:

Round 3: Mike with Infect. 2-0
Rabblemaster for the win game 1. Game 2 he had FoW and Daze in hand with a Nexus and fetch on the table. I play a Blood Moon. He cracks the fetch and plays Daze. I show him Spirit Guide and he kicks himself for not Forcing it.

Round 4: Anthony with U/R Delver. 2-1
CotV @ 1 wins games!


Won $31.25 in credit.
Picked up a Primeval Titan and saved the rest.


I took SoFaI out of the maindeck since Treasure Cruise was banned. I replaced it with a Sudden Demise from the board. A 4th copy of Koth replaced the Demise in the board. Demise is fantastic! I don't want to play 4 maindeck, but I definitely want 4 in my 75.

[nodahero]

I noticed my Light and Shadow did minimal work yesterday; I had anticipated more creatures dying in combat than even REMOTELY occurred. So I will be cutting that... Maybe for a second Jitte although the idea of getting one stranded in hand is not ideal and lines like that drive me nuts so I will likely avoid that. Perhaps I will add a Feast and Famine as a means of more hate for combo and as a way to cast more spells.

How insane have the 4 Chrome Mox been for you? They seem a lot better in the classic D-Stompy variants where hellbent was highly important. Plus I don't recall many games where I really had excess red cards to pitch until the late game and lets face it, Chrome Mox isn't impressive at that point especially if you have a Trinisphere in play at that time also.

[potatodavid]

I noticed my Light and Shadow did minimal work yesterday.

I just run fire and Ice. The best removal spells in modern are STP, Abrupt Decay, and Lightning Bolt. Light and shadow doesn't do a whole lot when people exile your creatures via STP. The card draw from F&I = most bueno in this deck too.

[Ace/Homebrew]

The best removal spells in Legacy are STP, Abrupt Decay, and Lightning Bolt.
Fixed that for you. :laugh:


How insane have the 4 Chrome Mox been for you? They seem a lot better in the classic D-Stompy variants where hellbent was highly important. Plus I don't recall many games where I really had excess red cards to pitch until the late game and lets face it, Chrome Mox isn't impressive at that point especially if you have a Trinisphere in play at that time also.

How insane were the Cavern of Souls?
Chrome Mox are essential in powering out a game-breaking lock piece on your first turn. Sure they are bad in multiples! Sure they are terrible late game! But if you won by sticking your hate, who cares?

Game 3 of Round 4 in my report above, I kept a hand on the play of Stompy Land, Chalice of the Void, Something, Something, Mox, Mox, Mox. I sat and looked at it for 2 minutes before keeping because I needed to decide if 6 random cards were better than 4 cards and 3 moxen. I kept because resolving the Chalice would keep him from playing a majority of his cards. Turns out I made the correct call. :tongue:

I tried Cavern as a 2 or 3 of and cut Mox down to 3 but found Cavern not making :r: for Blood Moon made the deck MORE inconsistent. And inconsistency is already a known issue for Stompy decks.

But hey, if it worked for you tell us how and why! Congrats on the good results.

[potatodavid]

fixed that for you. :laugh:



thanks bud!

[nonja]

3-1 local tournament :)

8 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Koth of the Hammer

Sideboard
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Trinisphere
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Anarchy
2 Graffdiggers's Cage
3 Ensnaring Bridge

R1 - Shardless Bug
G1, T1 > Blood Moon. After few minutes, he scoops
G2, Cavern, naming humans > Mgus of the Moon. He sadly looks at all his counter-magic. GG
2-0
1-0

R2 - Elves
Chalice on 1, 3sphere, even Blood Moon are good against them. G2 he sided out 1 Craterfhoof and that was a mistake, because he NO Craterhoof no.1, which left me at 6 life, next turn resolved second one... just to find reclamation sage :)
2-1
2-0

R3 - Tin Fins
moon, 3sphere, cage, chalice... won dice roll. A very important thing in this MU
2-0
3-0

R4 - Vial Goblins
G1 Won dice roll, land, chalice on 1, magus of the moon, mogg catcher. He plays Pyrokinesis (yup, MD) and cleans my board. I draw more landz....
G2 A risky play T1 Moggcatcher. He didn't have a removal, so game ends fast here.
G3 He virtually destroys me at turn 4: he has Vial on 3, Goblin warchief, bunch of lands. I am sitting behind E-Bridge with Moggcatcher and Siege-Gang + three tokens. He plays:
Gobblin Warchief, Goblin Matron > Tuktuk Scrapper (bye, bridge), Pyrokinesis (bye Moggcatcher and Siege-gang).
1-2
3-1

MD: Didn't play any grindy MU, so it's hard to evaluate Settler + Koths. Not sure if I really need second Siege-Gang. Jitte didn't see play.
SB: Delver is not huge, so -2 Sudden Shock +2 Pyrokinesis/ Sudden Demise

[nodahero]

I think I had a game where the Cavern was an issue for casting my spells, however the protection it granted in ensuring either Goblins or Humans resolved was very clutch repeatedly. My meta is filled with counters and greedy mana so ensuring my Bloodmoon effects resolve is very important to a good performance.

I did find myself hoping for a "5th" SSG in a few situations on Thursday so I think I will test a single Chrome Mox due in part to not being sure of its value and the case of diminishing returns.

On the topic of SGC, I can see why people aren't a fan of 2 because it can clog the hand, however I can't think of another goblin I would really want access to game 1 using my list (although I am new to the deck and to attacking in general so I may be missing a marquee card). Considering a card, why is Murderous Redcap played in the deck? I had more creatures die to StP then anything that would send them to the grave.

Also, I appreciate the 1 of Emrakul in the board, however is Kozilek better since we can theoretically cast him SIGNIFICANTLY easier then an Emraukl if the game goes that long for some weird reason.

[nodahero]

I piloted the following list to a 3-0 record yesterday (the event was tiny due to a local PTQ, PPTQ and SCG all somewhat close). I faced BUG DELVER (2-0), Maverick (2-1) and Merfolk (2-1) in that order.

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
7 Mountain

4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Chrome Mox

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Bloodmoon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Settler
1 Stingscourger
1 Siege-Gang Commander

Sideboard
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin King (This over Liege because of the curve and the invasion ability. I have yet to have a player cast a Clasm agaisnt me)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (Theoretically castable unlike Emrakul and if I cheat him in he will likely have the same end result)

One thing of note, I was intending to test Chrome Mox however, my deck never saw fit to give me one in the 8 games I played so the value of Mox remains to be seen.


And here is my sideboard plan which is a work in progress... any input is greatly appreciated.


Reanimator
Out:
Jitte
Sharpshooter
Scrapper

In:
Stingscourger
Faerie Macabre
Ensnaring Bridge

Sneak and Show
Out:
Jitte
Sharpshooter
Scrapper

In:
Stingscourger
2 Ensnaring Bridge

Elves
Out:
Settler
Stingscourger
Scrapper

In:
3 Pyrokinesis



Storm
Out:
Stingscourger
Sharpshooter

In:
Faerie Macabre
Goblin King

Death and Taxes
Out:
Settler
Stingscourger
Scrapper

In:
3 Pyrokinesis

Delver
Out:
Stingscourger
Scrapper

In:
2 Pyrokinesis



Burn
Out:
Stingscourger
Sharpshooter
Scrapper
Settler

In:
Goblin King
2 Koth of the Hammer

Painter
Out:
Stingscourger
Sharpshooter
Settler

In:
Scrapper
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Koth of the Hammer

Dredge
Out:
Settler
Scrapper

In:
Faerie Macabre
Stingscourger



Maverick
Out:
Stingscourger
Scrapper

In:
2 Pyrokinesis

Miracles
Out:
Stingscourger
Sharpshooter
Scrapper

In:
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Siege-Gang Commander

------------
Out:


In:




------------
Out:

In:


------------
Out:

In:


------------
Out:

In:

[Zupponn]

It seems quite bad to be running Koth with only 8 mountains. Needing that double red will burn you guys more than a few times.


I do not get why not to play goblin settler with 4 trini, 8 moon-effects, Moggcatcher and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker ?
I wouldn't run 4 3Sphere because you only ever really want one. Settler in my testing has been pretty horrible. Sideboard material at best. Terrible topdeck, bad in combat, doesn't end the game in any reasonable amount of time, can maybe lock them out if you get the combo vs something slow like miracles. Every time I've searched up Settler, SGC would have been better. We are highly reliant on single threats to win the game, so things that leave tokens behind are great for us because they are difficult to deal with. If Settler is your single threat of the game, wish your opponent for a good tournament as you check loss on your results slip.

On the topic of SGC, I can see why people aren't a fan of 2 because it can clog the hand, however I can't think of another goblin I would really want access to game 1 using my list (although I am new to the deck and to attacking in general so I may be missing a marquee card).
Who wants to go down to 1 SGC? I mean, I'm not a fan of 2 because I think that people should be running 3.

Considering a card, why is Murderous Redcap played in the deck? I had more creatures die to StP then anything that would send them to the grave.
Redcap is easily fetchable removal that leaves a body behind. He really helps shore up the D&T matchup alongside Kiki-Jiki and SGC.

Also, I appreciate the 1 of Emrakul in the board, however is Kozilek better since we can theoretically cast him SIGNIFICANTLY easier then an Emraukl if the game goes that long for some weird reason.
You're never going to cast either card.

[nodahero]

I haven't had to many issues casting Koth actually. Don't forget SSG, Chrome Mox and Bloodmoon all generate red sources.

My biggest gripe with this deck has been when I draw a bunch of high curve cards back to back and simply can't do anything with them. It really become problematic against any deck where I want Ensnaring Bridge.

What would you add Zupponn in place of the 4 3Sphere to my list? I am leaning towards adding the aforementioned Redcap.

Also, Settler has been good for me because my meta does run a fair number of Miracle decks and also a decent number of Maverick decks with 2 to 3 basics.

[Zupponn]

Redcap would be a great choice in that slot, but you could also look at dropping Sharpshooter for him as well. Other cards to consider would be both third SGC and Rakka Mar, whom people seem to have forgotten about recently.

[kkoie]

Redcap would be a great choice in that slot, but you could also look at dropping Sharpshooter for him as well. Other cards to consider would be both third SGC and Rakka Mar, whom people seem to have forgotten about recently.

Both in tournaments and testing, I have found Murderous Redcap to be a very effective card. The surprise factor alone of tutoring up a Murderous Redcap in a legacy tournament is enough to get many players to pause.

[nodahero]

I think I cut a 3Sphere for Redcap and possibly the Sharpshooter for an additional red source since I am upping the curve and red requirement. I will then shift the sharpshooter to the board for something.

[Morzas]

I built the Werewolf version of this deck but I'm switching to the Goblin build. I'm having trouble with Nic Fit mainly because Veteran Explorer dodges Blood Moon pretty well. Is there anything I can board against it or is it just one of the bad matchups you have to accept? Or (more likely) am I doing something wrong? I got into Legacy about a month ago.

[kkoie]

I built the Werewolf version of this deck but I'm switching to the Goblin build. I'm having trouble with Nic Fit mainly because Veteran Explorer dodges Blood Moon pretty well. Is there anything I can board against it or is it just one of the bad matchups you have to accept? Or (more likely) am I doing something wrong? I got into Legacy about a month ago.

I was running the goblin build at SCG Indy and got destroyed by Nic Fit. My opponent received a game 1 loss for failing to de-sideboard and I still lost two games to him. Granted I had to mulligan down to 4 in one game, but it strikes me as a rather difficult match-up because they run so many basic lands.

[Unassigned]

I was running the goblin build at SCG Indy and got destroyed by Nic Fit. My opponent received a game 1 loss for failing to de-sideboard and I still lost two games to him. Granted I had to mulligan down to 4 in one game, but it strikes me as a rather difficult match-up because they run so many basic lands.

I faced a Nic Fit player as well in Indy. I was able to lock them out early due to Chalice on 1 and went all-in on the quick Settler/Kiki lock. It's not a favorable matchup by any means, but it is manageable.

[Zupponn]

Nic Fit isn't a matchup that I have too much familiarity with, but for sideboarding I think that I'd bring out the Blood Moons for more threats. Koth seems pretty good against them, both dodging Deed and Liliana. Rakka Mar is good here. Anything that lets you go grindier seems like the way to go also. Focusing on getting SGC out seems like a strong plan and this feels like a Settler matchup, so I'd bring mine out of my sideboard. An early Rabblemaster could also close the game before they set up anything.

I know that's a lot of rambling, but those are my thoughts. The Goblin build is the version of DS that can go the grindiest, so it seems like it would have the best chance vs a deck like Nic Fit.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Nic Fit isn't a matchup that I have too much familiarity with.
I second Zupponn's ramblings and will add a few of my own. :tongue:

CotV @ 1 is probably our strongest turn 1 play. Rabblemaster is also probably very strong.
Phyrexian Revoker is very good in this matchup because it shuts off Pernicious Deed.

It is worth knowing that if they stick a Veteran Explorer or sneak one in with GSZ, you cannot prevent the Cabal Therapy flashback cost of sacrificing a creature with CotV @ 1. The Therapy will be countered, but sac'ing a creature is part of the cost and happens anyway.

But yeah, board out Blood Moons and probably 3spheres if you have more relevant stuff in the sideboard.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I've been moving cards around to try and come up with a nice balance between consistent gameplan and toolbox utility.
After going 2-2 at my local weekly and adjusting the list slightly, it looks like this:

Mana
11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Prison
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

Creatures
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Removal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sudden Demise

------------
Sideboard
1 Goblin Settler
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
3 Koth of the Hammer
1 Trinisphere
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Anarchy
3 ???

My experience says 1 toolbox goblin is sufficient as Kiki-Jiki is effectively a 2nd copy for anything. My experience also says Goblin Rabblemaster is the workhorse of this deck and Siege-Gang Commander is more of a high-impact bomb than a must-have win-con. If I have a Goblin Rabblemaster and a Moggcatcher on board, I am more likely to tutor a 2nd Rabblemaster (or Kiki) than search for a Siege-Gang. I put Settler back in the maindeck because she wins any game where the opponent stalls on mana or has a single copy of their basic lands.

I am fairly happy with my maindeck, but need to work on the sideboard...
Anarchy is the most recent addition. I keep losing to Absolute Law. :frown:
I'm finally interested in dropping the Stone Rains. That gives me 3 spots to consider.



Zupponn and Blastoderm, would you mind posting the lists you have been using most recently?

[Blastoderm]

.........

Zupponn and Blastoderm, would you mind posting the lists you have been using most recently?

I haven't played this deck in a while (I've been testing brews lately) but I read the thread every time it's on the first page. My list is currently the following:

4 Moggcatcher
3 SGC
1 Tuktuk scrapper
3 Rakka Mar
4 Hound of Griselbrand (my meta is littered with BUG + decks with liliana which is extremely frustrating to play against)
3 Sudden Shock

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 cotv
4 3sphere

4 SSG
3 chrome mox
8 sol lands
11 mountain

SB:
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Koth of the Hammer
3 Tormod's Crypt

[Zupponn]

Well, my list hasn't really changed much since my Top 16:

4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Rakka Mar
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Feldon of the Third Path

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte

11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Sideboard:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Anarchy
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Settler
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

I haven't done much testing with this list, but in theory I like Feldon more than SoFI. I haven't been too impressed with equipment lately, so one or both of those slots is up in the air right now. For the sideboard, I've dumped Sharpshooter for Settler and an Anarchy for a Pyrokinesis. I've also been pondering dropping the second Stingscourger for something else. Dualcaster Mage has been on my mind lately as I think we could get away with running a singleton somewhere. The number of cards he hits is sort of silly:

Duress
Thoughtseize
Cabal Therapy
Hymn to Tourach
Force of Will
Daze
Entreat the Angels
Brainstorm
Ponder
Preordain
Dig Through Time
Lightning Bolt
Punishing Fire
Green Sun's Zenith (Board in Boartusk Liege?)
Swords to Plowshares
Reanimate

And that's just a fraction of the spells that he could hit. Some of those like Reanimate and Entreat the Angels almost sound like blowouts.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Thanks guys! :smile:


Ace

Mana
11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Prison
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

Creatures
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker



Removal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sudden Demise

------------
Sideboard
1 Goblin Settler
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
3 Koth of the Hammer
1 Trinisphere
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Anarchy
3 ???


Zupponn

Mana
11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Prison
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

Creatures
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Rakka Mar
1 Feldon of the Third Path

Removal
1 Umezawa's Jitte


------------
Sideboard
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Settler
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Anarchy
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


Blastoderm

Mana
11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Prison
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

Creatures
4 Moggcatcher
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk scrapper
3 Rakka Mar
4 Hound of Griselbrand




Removal
3 Sudden Shock


------------
Sideboard
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Koth of the Hammer
3 Tormod's Crypt

Thanks again! It is helpful for me to see where we differ.

Blastoderm - It appears you have not tried out Goblin Rabblemaster yet?

Zupponn - Looks like you overload on threats maindeck and board into removal if needed?

How reliant are you guys on using SGC's ability as removal?

[Zupponn]

Between SGC, Jitte, and Redcap, that gives me 5 ways to kill creatures, and then if you add Moggcatcher because he can fetch Redcap that makes 9. I don't really find myself lookong for more very often.

Most of the time SGC shoots at their face.

[Blastoderm]

Thanks guys! :smile:

Thanks again! It is helpful for me to see where we differ.

Blastoderm - It appears you have not tried out Goblin Rabblemaster yet?

Zupponn - Looks like you overload on threats maindeck and board into removal if needed?

How reliant are you guys on using SGC's ability as removal?

I'm quite reliant on it as I always chump+shoot against goyf/batterskull/jitte. I haven't tried Rabblemaster yet... too many deathrite shaman / stoneforge decks in my meta.

The sudden shocks are in the main as delver/stoneforge are the most popular decks at the moment. Koth used to be there when Miracles was everywhere.

[Blastoderm]

Split the finals of a local monthly today... Played vs all the basics :(

R1: MUD (why me??), lose 1-2
R2: Miracles, win 2-1
R3: Enchantress (oh god..) lose 0-2
R4: Merfolk (really??) win 2-1
R5: Junk (finally some nonbasics) win 2-1

Quarters: Food Chain win 2-0
Semis: Deathblade (with green) win 2-1

My list was the one mentioned in Ace's summary. Sudden Shock was awesome all day! Hound of Griselbrand was amazing as well vs Deathblade, Junk and Merfolk. Definitely keeping 4.

Rakka Mar was insane...I didnt draw many moggcatchers for some reason today but she helped finish most of my games. Hardcasting siege-gangs was also very common and usually game-ending. Three SGC is a good number.

My sb was:

3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Koth of the Hammer
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Anarchy
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Phyrexian Revoker

Going forward I might put tuktuk scrapper #2 in the SB. Trinisphere was bad but only because I didn't play against what I was expecting to. Usually very bad vs anything midrange but great vs miracles and delver.

[Morzas]

My list is mostly based off of Ace's.

Maindeck

Mana
11x Mountain
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

Hate
4x Blood Moon
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere

Wincon
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Moggcatcher
2x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Koth of the Hammer
1x Krenko, Mob Boss (have not gotten to cast him yet, will probably cut him)

Other
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Sudden Demise
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard
4x Pithing Needle (I have considered running Revoker, but one store I go to has a LOT of Lands players)
3x Stone Rain
2x Sudden Demise (insanely powerful)
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Trinisphere
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Stingscourger (fun fact: if you look at his art real closely, he is wielding a Man o' War (http://imgur.com/IGJvVhk))

Report

Round 1: Win

Was against a Jeskai Ascendancy deck. Basically, when I had the hate, I won. When I didn't, I lost.

Game 1, my opponent got really greedy and spewed out a ton of tokens with Young Pyromancer. I Sudden Demise for 1, then after a few turns he scoops.

I think I mulled to 5 game 2 into a hand that had very little gas. Opponent eventually got 3x Fatestitcher and 2x Jeskai Ascendancy and I scooped.

In the third game, the opponent fetched for a basic Island vs my hand that had City of Traitors, SSG, Blood Moon, a couple Mountain and a Rabblemaster. I was rushing the Moon out expecting it to eat a Force so I could drop Rabblemaster next turn, but it resolved. Turns out my opponent had kept a hand with multiple Wear//Tear but fetched an Island instead of a Plains, so I basically autowon that one.

Round 2: Lose

Was against D&T.

Game 1 was epic. My opponent was cracking jokes the whole time, like "YOU KILLED MY MOM!!!!" when I killed her Mother of Runes, then "YOU KILLED MY MOM AGAIN!!!" when I killed a second one. When she played a Phyrexian Revoker and named Koth of the Hammer, I was like "whoa, this is canon" because both of the cards were from Scars block. I can't remember exactly what happened because we were both laughing half the time at our lame jokes, but at one point I shot the Revoker with a Jitte activation, ultimated Koth, then it was GG after that.

Game 2, I'm pretty sure I messed up. I played a turn 1 Chalice on 1 when my hand had the support for a Chalice on 2 the next turn. I have the feeling that Chalice on 2 is much, much more powerful against this deck than Chalice for 1. Also I feel should have boarded out the moons for Stone Rain/Pithing Needle. The moons and chalices didn't really do anything against my opponent, and Needle shuts off cards like Mom, Sword of Fire and Ice, Batterskull, Stoneforge Mystic, etc.

I don't really remember Game 3.

Round 3: Win

Was against RUG Delver. I don't remember the games themselves too well. At one point, my opponent casted Stifle on my Moggcatcher while I had a Trinisphere and Chalice on 1 in play. By the time I noticed, they had already drawn a card. I need to learn to be more deliberate in my play. I STILL GOT THERE THOUGH, got back-to-back Siege-Gangs, gummed up the board, drew a Jitte and it was basically over after that.

Game 2, opponent had Turn 1 Delver and my hand was all hate and no threats or removal. I think I ought to mulligan hands with no threats when I'm on the draw vs a tempo strategy.

I don't remember much of Game 3. At one point, opponent casts Rough while he has two 4/5 Goyfs vs my board of Magus of the Moon, Moggcatcher, Rabblemaster and a token equipped with a Jitte and a Sword. I tutor up Murderous Redcap in response, remove some counters from the Jitte and he has nothing vs my Little Goblins That Could. It was over from there.

Round 4: Draw

Opponent agreed to an ID. Got ice cream with my friend who went 1-2 drop and wanted to go. I got $15 in store credit for going 2-1-1.

Overall feel:

This deck feels a lot more powerful than the Werewolf version. Dropping a Rabblemaster and getting in for some beats feels a lot better than sitting there waiting for my Hanweir Watchkeep to flip, which it rarely did because my meta is full of decks packed with cantrips. I don't even miss the Cavern of Souls because opponents are usually countering my hate and not my threats. It was only good against BUG Delver, basically. I also really like the equipment because they make Simian Spirit Guide a live draw and are insane with all the token generation. I have a Goblin Settler coming in the mail this week and I can't wait to make people scoop to Kiki-Jiki copying Settler every turn.

Questions: When do I board in Stone Rain? Is it good vs D&T?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Overall feel:

This deck feels a lot more powerful than the Werewolf version. Dropping a Rabblemaster and getting in for some beats feels a lot better than sitting there waiting for my Hanweir Watchkeep to flip, which it rarely did because my meta is full of decks packed with cantrips. I don't even miss the Cavern of Souls because opponents are usually countering my hate and not my threats. It was only good against BUG Delver, basically. I also really like the equipment because they make Simian Spirit Guide a live draw and are insane with all the token generation. I have a Goblin Settler coming in the mail this week and I can't wait to make people scoop to Kiki-Jiki copying Settler every turn.

Questions: When do I board in Stone Rain? Is it good vs D&T?

Congrats! :laugh:
The metagame at Redcap's Corner in Philadelphia was flooded with Miracles for months and Stone Rain is insanely good in that matchup. The room has changed from 4-6 Miracle players in a room of ~25 to only 1 or 2, so I recently cut the Stone Rains for grave hate. Unless my opponent was playing a Deathrite Shaman deck, I would also board in the land destruction whenever I had dead cards in the match up, or otherwise had few ways to interact with my opponent (Show and Tell).

I initially thought the Stone Rains would be good against D&T. Actual gameplay seemed to prove otherwise. While discussing the match up after rounds, it looks like our best bet is to go creature heavy in games 2 and 3. D&T is also a mana denial deck and they have Vials and a lower curve. If we try to fight them on that axis we will be outclassed most of the time. I would consider boarding out your Koths and some number of Blood Moons/Magus for the creatures in your board and the extra Sudden Demises.

I would also reconsider Phyrexian Revoker!
It can name Mox Diamond and Engineered Explosives against Lands. Blood Moon should take care of the rest. Otherwise it is another creature that is excellent against D&T (so many things you can name) and it carries equipment just as good as a Spirit Guide. You also will have CotV@2 much less often than CotV@1.

Enjoy using Goblin Settler!

[Blastoderm]

Congrats! :laugh:
The metagame at Redcap's Corner in Philadelphia was flooded with Miracles for months and Stone Rain is insanely good in that matchup. The room has changed from 4-6 Miracle players in a room of ~25 to only 1 or 2, so I recently cut the Stone Rains for grave hate. Unless my opponent was playing a Deathrite Shaman deck, I would also board in the land destruction whenever I had dead cards in the match up, or otherwise had few ways to interact with my opponent (Show and Tell).

I initially thought the Stone Rains would be good against D&T. Actual gameplay seemed to prove otherwise. While discussing the match up after rounds, it looks like our best bet is to go creature heavy in games 2 and 3. D&T is also a mana denial deck and they have Vials and a lower curve. If we try to fight them on that axis we will be outclassed most of the time. I would consider boarding out your Koths and some number of Blood Moons/Magus for the creatures in your board and the extra Sudden Demises.

I would also reconsider Phyrexian Revoker!
It can name Mox Diamond and Engineered Explosives against Lands. Blood Moon should take care of the rest. Otherwise it is another creature that is excellent against D&T (so many things you can name) and it carries equipment just as good as a Spirit Guide. You also will have CotV@2 much less often than CotV@1.

Enjoy using Goblin Settler!

To crush Miracles (and other UW/r control decks with basics like golddigger) I used to SB 2x Boil and 3x Goblin Assault (and had 3 Koth Maindeck). Now I don't really need/want to pack this much hate for one matchup. I tend to be favored anyways even if Blood Moon doesn't do much. It can screw them over if you land it early though as they won't have WW for Entreat the angels which is the scariest card in the deck.

Anarchy, Sudden Shock and Goblin Sharpshooter are all great against D&T.

[Morzas]

Thank you for the advice, I will make some changes once I get my Settler.

[Zupponn]

I usually bring in both Anarchy and Pyrokinesis against D&T. Murderous Redcap is really good against them as well. My plan is to kill their things. Without their things they die. Take care with your manabase though. Wasteland or Port can destroy you if you aren't careful.

Miracles seems like an odd matchup to me. I've had games where I've blown them out, games where I've been blown out, and super grindy games that have gone both ways. I like going grindy against them and T1 Rabblemaster on the play is good even if it gets STPed next turn. I once had the goblin token left behind deal somewhere around 6-8 damage because I just kept dropping lock pieces instead of threats and my opponent probably didn't want to Terminus or Swords the little guy. He was totally value. Koth is really strong versus them as well. I keep mine in the sideboard, but they are GG many times if they hit the board.

[Morzas]

Maindeck

Made the following changes to the maindeck:
-1 Krenko, Mob Boss
-2 Koth of the Hammer
+1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (I might move Kiki-Jiki to the sideboard, this was who I swapped out for Krenko)
+1 Tuktuk Scrapper
+1 Murderous Redcap (I like the Redcap against decks that pack Pernicious Deed)

Mana
11x Mountain
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

Hate
4x Blood Moon
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere

Wincon
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Moggcatcher
2x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

Other
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Sudden Demise
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard
4x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Stone Rain
2x Sudden Demise
2x Koth of the Hammer
1x Trinisphere
1x Stingscourger
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Goblin Settler

I tried out the Revokers and they feel a lot better than Pithing Needle.

Sunday Night Legacy, Green Lake Games
The atmosphere at GLG is pretty casual so I didn't bother recording how I sideboarded each round. Turnout is usually 6~10 players a week.

Round 1, Enchantress - Loss
I'm up against Stephen, and I'm excited because I've never faced his deck before, only spectated matches when my games were over. Enchantress is a really cool deck!

Game 1
I land a Trinisphere on turn 1, back it up with a fast clock and the game is over.

Game 2
I had to mulligan and kept a hand that had no hate, but a slight clock and a Sudden Demise that I kill his Argothian Enchantress with. He eventually lands Solitary Confinement, sits behind it and kills me with Rest In Peace + Helm of Obedience.

Game 3
I think I could have won this game. My opening hand was Moggcatcher, Mountain, Mountain, City of Traitors, Trinisphere, Sudden Demise. I play Mountain. He plays a Forest and Green Suns' Zeniths for a Dryad Arbor. I make a mistake here in playing City of Traitors. Instead of just blowing up his Arbor with Sudden Demise, I lay down Trinisphere, holding out for a 2-for-1. He plays a land and passes. I play my Mountain and drop Moggcatcher, destroying my City. I figure that the deck is about 50% mana sources at this point and I'm bound to draw one, and proceed to draw several Chrome Mox that I can't cast while he eventually assembles Leyline + Helm. All this could have been avoided if I'd killed his Arbor, then played City on turn 3 instead of turn 2. I tend to view City as a colorless Dark Ritual and value speed over resilience, but I'm learning that this deck isn't *just* speed, you can sometimes win a slow game by just playing big threats, and I have a habit of taking unnecessary risks because it gives me a thrilling feeling.

Round 2, Nic Fit - Win
I'm up against my friend Max, who crushed me last week. It's payback time!

Game 1
I land a turn 1 Chalice of the Void and it's basically game.

Game 2
Max deploys Veteran Explorer on turn 1. I go Ancient Tomb, Chrome Mox imprinting Siege-Gang Commander, Exile SSG, Goblin Settler. Turns out he kept a one-lander hoping that I would have to eventually attack into Settler. I eventually draw into a Moggcatcher, assemble the Kiki-Jiki + Settler lock, then deploy several Siege-Gang Commanders vs Max's board of a single Veteran Explorer that I refuse to attack into until I have an overwhelming alpha strike.

Round 3, Burn - Loss
I'm up against Casey. The last time we fought, I vividly remember having a Trinisphere and two Pithing Needles naming each of his fetchlands in play while he sat there, drew and passed each turn. This was not to be today.

Game 1
I mulligan aggressively for a hand that has either Trinisphere or Chalice of the Void, even though my initial seven had a turn 2 Moggcatcher and my six had a turn 3 Siege-Gang Commander. My five was a no-lander and my four was miserable, but playable. He burns me out.

Game 2
See Game 1, except I land a Chalice on 1 that eats a Smash to Smithereens.

I think I mulliganed too aggressively. I had several playable hands that I tossed back because they had no Trinisphere or Chalice.

Round 4, Infect - Win
I'm up against Shawn. He's a beloved member of Seattle's Legacy community -- lending out decks to people without them and he always has a smile on his face. Very fun guy to be around.

Game 1
Turn 1 Blood Moon, he has no Force. I kill him.

Game 2
I land a Chalice on 1. He plays a Seal of Primordium. At some point in the game, he Brainstorms and plays a Noble Hierarch while my Chalice is still in play. Turns out we both forgot about my Chalice of the Void set to 1 because he has a Seal of Primordium in play that we also both forgot about. We have a good laugh then he animates his Inkmoth Nexus, pumps it a couple times and eats my face.

Game 3
He mulls to five, and then I land a turn 1 Blood Moon and he has no Force. I kill him. We split prizes since he got paired down.

--------------------------------------------------

Monday Night Legacy, Card Kingdom
This shop is a bit more hardcore than Green Lake Games. The store credit payout is higher and it's in a cool neighborhood so it attracts a lot more sharks. Also, I forgot some of my opponents' names since Card Kingdom regularly gets turnouts of 20+ people so I don't know all of them yet.

Round 1, Show and Tell - Loss

Game 1
Had an early Trinisphere backed by a clock. He played an Engineered Explosives with two counters on it vs my Jitte-wielding SSG while he had 4 lands, my Tuktuk Scrapper blew it up. He casts another one and blows up the Jitte. I play a Magus of the Moon and swing, then a second Magus. He Burning Wishes for Pyroclasm and wipes my board. I eventually topdeck a Rabblemaster for the win. I don't know what my opponent is on, and this affects my next game. (In retrospect, the basic Island and basic Mountain heavily suggested Show and Tell. I thought it was some kind of Storm deck due to the Burning Wish.)

I board as follows:
+4 Phyrexian Revoker
+3 Stone Rain
+1 Koth of the Hammer
+1 Trinisphere
+1 Goblin Settler

-4 Blood Moon
-2 Sudden Demise
-2 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Tuktuk Scrapper
-1 Chrome Mox (I board out a single Mox every time I board in Revokers because I've found they sit dead in hand)

Game 2
He eventually casts Show and Tell. He gets Emrakul, I get Moggcatcher. Unfortunately, I didn't board in my Stingscourger -- didn't have the read. Lost quickly.

I board as follows:
+1 Stingscourger

-1 Umezawa's Jitte

Game 3
He eventually gets out Omniscience, but amusingly enough my Trinisphere forces him to pay 3 for each spell. Turns out that a 15/15 for 3 is still good value, though...

Round 2, BUG Delver - Win

Game 1
I land a Blood Moon on turn 1 and it's basically over from there. This deck is designed to crush Delver decks.

I board as follows:
+4 Phyrexian Revoker

-1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-1 Tuktuk Scrapper
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Chrome Mox

Game 2
He eventually resolves a Tombstalker, but 3x goblin tokens that were left behind after my Siege-Gang Commander got Disfigured + Tuktuk Scrapper + Magus of the Moon outraced it.

Round 3, MUD - Loss

Game 1
I play Mountain. He plays Lotus Petal x2, City of Traitors, Lodestone Golem. That 1 extra mana cuts me off from making any relevant plays. Four swings later, I'm dead.

I board as follows:
+4 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Trinisphere
+1 Goblin Sharpshooter
+1 Goblin Settler

-4 Chalice of the Void
-2 Sudden Demise (only kills Baleful Strix)
-1 Chrome Mox

Game 2
Mull to 5, Turn 1 Jitte, Turn 2 Monkey, Turn 3 Blood Moon. I swing a few times and get him down to 12. He lands a Dimir Signet to escape the Blood Moon lock and casts The Abyss, which kills my SSG. The turn after that he lays down a Tangle Wire. We both do nothing for a while but I eventually land a SSG and put the Jitte (with 1 counter) on it. All I need is to swing, and then I can kill his Lodestone Golem by -1/-1-ing it three times. Next upkeep, he forgets about the Abyss trigger. I'm about to swing on my turn but realize the SSG is supposed to be dead, so I kill it.

My reasoning for doing this is that my opponent was an unfamiliar face. I remember how angry I got when at my first night at this shop, an opponent cast a Thoughtseize on me for 1 mana while I had a Trinisphere and a Chalice in play. Even though I am under no obligation to remember his Abyss trigger, I would rather lose a game vs. a player than get a win and potentially make them feel unwelcome -- plus, I'm of the opinion that the cards you play ought to work. I realize that the previous rule re: triggers was annoying for some players felt the rules forced them to play for their opponent, but I believe that is a small price to pay to ensure that the game functions the way it is supposed to. So, my SSG died and his Lodestone Golem killed me a few swings later.

Now, if I ever played in a big tournament with cash on the line, I would totally let my opponent screw themselves out of a game via missed triggers. I dunno if I would do it against a fresh player over some store credit. Maybe a few months from now my tune will change.

After the game, I learned that my opponent hadn't played Legacy for about six months -- half the game they did things like forget that my Blood Moon turned all their Artifact Lands into Mountain, missed triggers on stuff here and there, etc. So, I was patient with them because this is a complex and difficult game. Was I right?

Round 4, Storm - Win
We're both 1-2, so it's a battle for honor, which is worth very little nowadays. We're both very relaxed since there are no prizes on the line.

Game 1
Chalice on 1 lol gg. He tries to sneak a Gitaxian Probe past it but I catch him.

I board as follows:
+4 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Trinisphere
+1 Goblin Settler
+1 Stone Rain

-2 Sudden Demise
-2 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Murderous Redcap
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Chrome Mox

Game 2
Turn 2 Blood Moon GG

A rather anti-climactic conclusion.

---------------------------------------

Stuff I Learned This Week

A deck that fetches for Basic Island + Basic Mountain is Show and Tell, not Storm. Also, I think my sideboard plan was incorrect (aside from not bringing in Stingscourger, which was DEFINITELY wrong. (One player commented that the shop had four Show and Tell players, so I ought to devote more slots to that matchup.))

When my opponent is trying to sneak a spell past my Chalice, they suddenly either start playing very quickly, or tank for an absurdly long amount of time before casting their spell that my Chalice trigger should counter. From now on, I'll just instinctively point at my Chalice after I see my opponents cast a spell after their playing speed changes as opposed to saying "OK" or "it resolves". I like playing at a fast pace, but being more deliberate will help me in the long run.

Questions I Have
Am I supposed to keep in the Blood Moons when I'm on the Stone Rain plan? I get the feeling swapping them out is completely wrong -- is the idea behind the Stone Rains is blowing up their only live colored sources while the Moons blank everything else? If so, what am I supposed to board out instead? The equipment?

Some people I know have suggested maindecking Stingscourger. Have any of you tried that?

I'd also just like any advice you all can give me. Thank you.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I tried out the Revokers and they feel a lot better than Pithing Needle.
I board out a single Mox every time I board in Revokers because I've found they sit dead in hand.
Typically if the Needle effect has to be played on your first turn, Revoker still gets the job done with all our fast mana and sol lands. Revoker stopping mana abilities also feeds our Blood Moon plan and neutralizes 'outs' like Mox Diamond and Aether Vial. It carries equipment and dodges Mother of Runes and Sudden Demise too.

I've found you need to keep about 26/27 red cards to reliably imprint a color on Chrome Mox and cast your red spell. I'm currently trying 4 Revoker main deck with all 4 Trinisphere in the board to maintain the colored card requirement.
I'm also trying a split of 3 Chrome Mox/1 Lotus Petal.


I make a mistake here in playing City of Traitors.
I tend to view City as a colorless Dark Ritual and value speed over resilience, but I'm learning that this deck isn't *just* speed, you can sometimes win a slow game by just playing big threats, and I have a habit of taking unnecessary risks because it gives me a thrilling feeling.
This is a lesson you can only learn the hard way!
I still just go for it occasionally. Sometimes you've got to raise the ante to get rid of the guys whose hands get better than yours after the flop.



A deck that fetches for Basic Island + Basic Mountain is Show and Tell, not Storm.
It also implies your opponent doesn't know what you are playing yet or isn't familiar with your deck. His only motivation to fetch a basic Mountain is if he's worried about Price of Progress or Wasteland. Why fetch a basic Mountain ever if your opponent main-decks 8 Moon cards? :cool:



One player commented that the shop had four Show and Tell players, so I ought to devote more slots to that matchup.
I'd recommend Ensnaring Bridge! Good against Sneak + Show, Reanimator, 12 Post.


Questions I Have
Am I supposed to keep in the Blood Moons when I'm on the Stone Rain plan? I get the feeling swapping them out is completely wrong -- is the idea behind the Stone Rains is blowing up their only live colored sources while the Moons blank everything else? If so, what am I supposed to board out instead? The equipment?

Some people I know have suggested maindecking Stingscourger. Have any of you tried that?
I put Stone Rain in the board whenever I get frustrated from losing to my opponent drawing into a singleton card or fetching it on the play or before I can land a Moon. It is also pretty good (and fun) against Miracles. So yes, swapping Stone Rains for Blood Moons would be wrong. I board out the equipment, Sudden Demise, or Siege-Gangs/1-of Gobs depending on how the rate in the matchup. I also just love playing Stone Rain and have a foil set of the Kamigawa art. Pet card in a pet deck. :wink:

I've tried Stingscourger in the main deck. I put it back in the board though. If you are expecting a room full of Emrakul, he seems pretty good to have in your 60.


After the game, I learned that my opponent hadn't played Legacy for about six months -- half the game they did things like forget that my Blood Moon turned all their Artifact Lands into Mountain, missed triggers on stuff here and there, etc. So, I was patient with them because this is a complex and difficult game. Was I right?


Now, if I ever played in a big tournament with cash on the line, I would totally let my opponent screw themselves out of a game via missed triggers. I dunno if I would do it against a fresh player over some store credit.
I think the inset quote is a healthy attitude to have.


When my opponent is trying to sneak a spell past my Chalice, they suddenly either start playing very quickly, or tank for an absurdly long amount of time before casting their spell that my Chalice trigger should counter. From now on, I'll just instinctively point at my Chalice after I see my opponents cast a spell after their playing speed changes as opposed to saying "OK" or "it resolves". I like playing at a fast pace, but being more deliberate will help me in the long run.
I say "countered by Chalice" and motion towards the card.


Good to hear about your experiences with the deck! :laugh:

[ZTurgeon]

Split the finals of a local monthly today... Played vs all the basics :(

R1: MUD (why me??), lose 1-2
R2: Miracles, win 2-1
R3: Enchantress (oh god..) lose 0-2
R4: Merfolk (really??) win 2-1
R5: Junk (finally some nonbasics) win 2-1

Quarters: Food Chain win 2-0
Semis: Deathblade (with green) win 2-1

My list was the one mentioned in Ace's summary. Sudden Shock was awesome all day! Hound of Griselbrand was amazing as well vs Deathblade, Junk and Merfolk. Definitely keeping 4.

Rakka Mar was insane...I didnt draw many moggcatchers for some reason today but she helped finish most of my games. Hardcasting siege-gangs was also very common and usually game-ending. Three SGC is a good number.

My sb was:

3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Koth of the Hammer
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Anarchy
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Phyrexian Revoker

Going forward I might put tuktuk scrapper #2 in the SB. Trinisphere was bad but only because I didn't play against what I was expecting to. Usually very bad vs anything midrange but great vs miracles and delver.

I will say that a settler turns enchantress from a bat matchup to a very very good one. Since they are slow and don't really have removal, you get to get the moggcatcher into settler into kiki combo online almost all the time and they can't beat it unless they were super far ahead. You just keep blowing up their lands with multiple enchantments and eventually they can't keep up. It feels weird because it is a completely different axis than normal, but I have won a ton of games with that against them because every turn after you get a rabblemaster and make dudes who can't attack because of a grass or confinement. The second they can't pay any more because of your settler lock, they die.

[Blastoderm]

I will say that a settler turns enchantress from a bat matchup to a very very good one. Since they are slow and don't really have removal, you get to get the moggcatcher into settler into kiki combo online almost all the time and they can't beat it unless they were super far ahead. You just keep blowing up their lands with multiple enchantments and eventually they can't keep up. It feels weird because it is a completely different axis than normal, but I have won a ton of games with that against them because every turn after you get a rabblemaster and make dudes who can't attack because of a grass or confinement. The second they can't pay any more because of your settler lock, they die.

Thanks. Yea I could see that working but you absolutely need to draw a Moggcatcher. I don't really like playing settler kiki main though...I might prefer it in the sb. Do you use this combo in any other matchup? I feel like SGC+SGC or SGC+kiki would just end games anyways; enchantress being the exception. And vs Miracles I tend to side in Boil.

[Zupponn]

Anarchy and Settler both destroy Enchantress. SGC is nice to let you get around things like Elephant Grass as well, so our Enchantress matchup is a hell of a lot better than it used to be. I'm not a big fan of either Chalice or Trinisphere against them and would probably take out some number of those guys in the matchup.

@Morzas: Get some bridges in the side. They're amazing against Show and Tell decks as well as Reanimator and I'd even bring them on against Merfolk. Also, if you ever see Pyroclasm, it's a fairly strong sign that you're up against Sneak Show. Im not sure what other Red and Blue deck would even run that.

[ZTurgeon]

Thanks. Yea I could see that working but you absolutely need to draw a Moggcatcher. I don't really like playing settler kiki main though...I might prefer it in the sb. Do you use this combo in any other matchup? I feel like SGC+SGC or SGC+kiki would just end games anyways; enchantress being the exception. And vs Miracles I tend to side in Boil.

I use it all the time. It blows up basics when blood moon is out, is my number 1 game plan against miracles and deals with problematic lands like maze of ith, grove, or dark depths. Mostly that legacy decks run so few land that taking out 1 or 2 normally ends the game.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Went 3-1 at my weekly. Total of 29 players.

Mana
11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Prison
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Phyrexian Revoker

Creatures
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Instigator Gang
3 Rakdos Pit Dragon
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

Removal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sudden Demise

------------
Sideboard
3 Koth of the Hammer
4 Trinisphere
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of the Void

R1: Scott on ANT. Win 2-0
Turn 1 CotV@1, turn 2 Magus, turn 3 Rabblemaster.
Next game was turn 1 3sphere, turn 2 CotV@2, turn 3 CotV@1 and a Revoker, which I forgot cost 2 mana (and therefore gets countered).

R2: Sam on R/G Lands. Loss 0-2???
He's on the play and I keep a turn 2 Blood Moon hand. He starts with Manabond, ends his turn putting 6 lands into play, including Stage and Depths...
Game 2 he lands a Seismic Assault. I was aware of this tech but learned a lesson that Revoker can stop it. Didn't matter though. I lost because I ended up with as many lands in play as he did...

R3: Alex on DDFT. Win 2-0
He's on the play and mulls to 6 both games. Neither game was close.

R4: Anthony on Patriot Delver. Win 2-1
I lost the first game due to counter magic and my Ancient Tombs.
Game 2 he scoops after I blow up his Jitte and play one of my own.
Game 3 was extremely close! 2 Revokers naming SFM and Jitte let me stablize. Lock pieces and Rabblemaster let me win.


The store had an Ugin and foil Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, so I originally intended to play for top 4 in order to get both. BUT they sold the Ugin and we were expected to get a ton of snow (we did) and I live an hour+ from this store... so I split top 8 getting $36.25 in credit which I put towards the Sarkhan and a Steel Overseer.

There is a Philadelphia Legacy Series tournament on Saturday. I made a bunch of changes in order to test some things out for that event. I am a fan of the 3 Mox/1 Petal split. Having all my Trinispheres in the board was also fine. 4 Revoker main deck wasn't bad.
I also like the synergy between Rabblemaster and Instigator Gang.

I am convinced Rabblemaster is an auto-include for this deck. I am not fully sold on Moggcatcher.

[Zupponn]

I am not fully sold on Moggcatcher.

And I wouldn't run anything else.

[Ace/Homebrew]

And I wouldn't run anything else.
Here's where I'm coming from regarding my statement on Moggcatcher:

Right now 'Dragon' Stompy is in a weird place because there isn't a 'best' version of it.

Dragon Stompy - Not really used anymore that I've seen (from TCDecks).
Werewolf Stompy - Allows use of Cavern of Souls (on Humans) better than any other version. Its creatures are generally the biggest.
Goblin Stompy - Allows for a toolbox and is the best at filling the board with creatures. Its creatures are generally the smallest.
Control Stompy - Main decks Ensnaring Bridge instead of Trinisphere and uses planeswalkers and boardwipes.


The problems I have identified with Moggcatcher are as follows:

A '2 damage to all creatures' spell resets your board.
Your opponent has to pass the turn before you get any value.
If you don't untap with Moggcatcher but need a 1 of goblin, you are pretty screwed.
Generally, having multiples in play doesn't do much for you.

Having said that, if you DO untap with Moggcatcher the game tends to swing in your favor quickly (barring a Pyroclasm effect from your opponent).
I have only gotten to test it in 4 rounds of real Magic, but the interaction between Goblin Rabblemaster and Instigator Gang is promising. The gang's :3::r: mana cost is also less of a stress on our mana base.

[Morzas]

I'd recommend Ensnaring Bridge! Good against Sneak + Show, Reanimator, 12 Post.

I'm gonna wait until after MM2015 to get my playset -- there is a chance, however small (point for its reprint: I don't think WotC wants this casual all-star card to cost $20; point against its reprint: unfun card in limited), that it could get reprinted there. In the meantime, I'll consider packing a playset of Confusion in the Ranks in my sideboard.

[Blastoderm]

Not sure if I'll ever stick with Rabblemaster. Moggcatcher has gotten me out of too many hardcast Batterskull/topdeck Jitte situations it's unbelievable. Same thing with playing 3 SGC. I don't like using a toolbox maindeck.

[Zupponn]

Not sure if I'll ever stick with Rabblemaster. Moggcatcher has gotten me out of too many hardcast Batterskull/topdeck Jitte situations it's unbelievable. Same thing with playing 3 SGC. I don't like using a toolbox maindeck.
I don't think that the question is Rabblemaster vs Moggcatcher or Rabblemaster vs SGC. It's more Rabblemaster vs whatever other random stuff we could run.

As for the Instigator Gang, I don't think that it's good at all. Remember that we want our cards to be high impact by themselves. IG is not that high impact. Sure, he's a big body at times, but unless you Time Walk yourself he's probably going to be nothing more than a 2/3 that attacks for 3. He does have great synergy with Rabblemaster, but if that's the main selling point then he's not worth it because he doesn't do enough by himself. Also, by playing him, you can no longer break Bridge like Moggcatcher and SGC can and go back to having an unwinnable matchup vs Enchantress. The flexibility and ability to grind with Moggcatcher are far more useful to have than another random beater IMO.

[Blastoderm]

I don't think that the question is Rabblemaster vs Moggcatcher or Rabblemaster vs SGC. It's more Rabblemaster vs whatever other random stuff we could run.

As for the Instigator Gang, I don't think that it's good at all. Remember that we want our cards to be high impact by themselves. IG is not that high impact. Sure, he's a big body at times, but unless you Time Walk yourself he's probably going to be nothing more than a 2/3 that attacks for 3. He does have great synergy with Rabblemaster, but if that's the main selling point then he's not worth it because he doesn't do enough by himself. Also, by playing him, you can no longer break Bridge like Moggcatcher and SGC can and go back to having an unwinnable matchup vs Enchantress. The flexibility and ability to grind with Moggcatcher are far more useful to have than another random beater IMO.

Same for Rakka-Mar. So much tarmogoyf/liliana/batterskull in my meta and she just CRUSHES it.

[zangoasyl]

I don't think that the question is Rabblemaster vs Moggcatcher or Rabblemaster vs SGC. It's more Rabblemaster vs whatever other random stuff we could run.


What I don't get is why nobody is discussing imperial recruiter at this point. There was only a single top8 finish in a major event of this deck in the last 5 years (Marshall Arthurs SCG Open Columbus 09/11/14 - http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8470&d=248627&f=LE ) and he ran 4 recruiters. It adds so much of the desperately needed consistency to this deck at the price of less direct threats. I think that is the point we should discuss!

I am not really happy with his SB choices (even though his report suggests a lot of good choices, especially flying spaghetti monster against reanimator). But the rest feels pretty solid. My testing over the last 2 month with this build only lead to -1 koth +1 rabblemaster.
Especially the caverns add value due to 12 important humans in the main 60 plus toolbox jaya in the side...

I know recruiters are expensive, but in my eyes they are definitely worth it!

What do you guys think?

[Zupponn]

I haven't tested Recruiter at all, so I can't really voice an opinion on him. I guess the advantage of him is that you have 8 Moggcatchers and a terrific gameplan against Miracles of just chaining Recruiters to negate their Terminuses. The biggest downside I see is that he doesn't end the game very fast, especially on his own, and I'm not too sure if that's an important thing or not. Also, if you're running Recruiter, what's the advantage of running this deck vs just going Painter-Grindstone? That just seems like a better place for him in my opinion.

Another thing that makes me not too interested in testing Recruiter is that I've been fine without him (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15082&iddeck=111836), so that's going to definitely influence my thought process. You talk about the only Top 8 this deck has had, but the only other recent Top 16 in a 200+ player tournament was my list without Recruiter. Sadly, we don't have very many results to go off of.

[zangoasyl]

Sorry for forgetting about this awesome result of yours!!
It's true, with recruiters it may happen that your game ending threat comes to play one round later. On the other hand it provides a perfect toolbox where every single creature in the deck is tutorable, which effectively feels like running 8 magus and 8 moggcatcher, 5 redcap and 5 SGC at the same time.

@painter:
Well, painter does not have that many nice prison elements and does not usually go for dork beatdown. Question of playstyle probably... But being an important card in another deck should not have a big influence on the discussion of whether this card can improve mono red moggcatcher or not... :-)

[kkoie]

Sorry for forgetting about this awesome result of yours!!
It's true, with recruiters it may happen that your game ending threat comes to play one round later. On the other hand it provides a perfect toolbox where every single creature in the deck is tutorable, which effectively feels like running 8 magus and 8 moggcatcher, 5 redcap and 5 SGC at the same time.

@painter:
Well, painter does not have that many nice prison elements and does not usually go for dork beatdown. Question of playstyle probably... But being an important card in another deck should not have a big influence on the discussion of whether this card can improve mono red moggcatcher or not... :-)

I have tested the list with Recruiters and found that I didn't need all 4. Running 4 cut down on the number of goblins, and I liked having 2 copies of siege-gang (I found it difficult to run more than 1 scg and 4 recruiters). I still haven't made up my mind about rabblemaster yet. I do run 1 copy of recruiter as my "5th" moggcatcher and that works fine. I have fluctuated between 1-2 recruiters. I think running 4 just takes away too many goblin slots.

[Octopusman]

I know the focus has been on goblin toolbox, werewolves, etc recently.

I ran this:

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
10 mountain
4 simian spirit guide
4 chrome mox
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
4 blood moon
4 magus of the moon
3 sword of war and peace
4 priest of urabrask
4 bonfire of the damned
4 seething song
3 Stormbreath dragon

Board:
3 Ratchet bomb
4 Goblin Sting Scourger
3 Anarchy
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ensnaring bridge


I went 1-2, but I was very flooded three games.

I'm very happy with my performance and the main deck.
I played enchantress, elves, maverick.

Bonfire is mvp, magus mvp, sowp mvp, Stormbreath Dragon mvp.

Just as I thought and nice to see it backed up.

Stormbreath + equip into song monstrous is game.

I will probably take out priests for rabblasters. Keep you posted.

[cin]

Hi guys,


My deck's current decklist:

Lands - 20
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
8x Mountain

Artifacts - 14
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
3x Chrome Mox
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Enchantments - 4
4x Blood Moon

Creatures - 22
4x Moggcatcher
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Prophetic Flamespeaker
3x Magus of the Moon
2x Imperial Recruiter
1x Goblin Settler
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Murderous Redcap


Sideboard
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Pyrokinesis
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Stingscourger
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Boartusk Liege
3x Confusion in the Ranks

Note:
*Imperial Recruiters helps you find phyrexian revoker when you need it most because this deck only has 1 revoker and take note, its on the main board.
*Tuktuk scrapper = destroys artifact when needed
*Murderous Redcap = mini spot removal
*Stingscourger = karakas type of creature, very effective against decks with biggies (sneakshow, reanimator)
*Settler = land destroyer, favorite target would be basic lands when you already have magus/blood moons online
*Siege-Gang Commander = favorite card to fetch using moggcatcher to overwhelm the opponent.
*Kiki-jiki = Keycard of the Goblin Stompy, This one card is very important since this copies your tools when they're already in play to double the their triggered abilities. Avoid pitching this for your Chrome Moxes! =)

Could be Mainboard / Sideboard
Shrieking Mogg - Taps all other creatures and it is very effective when you have moggcatcher to get this and copy it with kiki jiki every declare attacker's phase of the opponent

Lightning Crafter - Very good spot removal and can even perform combo when you have Skirk Prospector in play

Boartusk Liege - Very effective lord card for all your red creatures, take note that this deck not only runs goblins but also run some other creature types good thing this creature pumps red card and it is very effective against sweepers like pyroclasm.

Ingot Chewer - Can be used when the meta has mud players

Prophetic Flamespeaker - Very good extra card draws, You're like using chandra pyromasters/outpost siege ability twice. Very effective when you have Swords i.e. SOLAS, SOFI, Jitte

Imperial Recruiter - Very good toolbox finding card when moggcatcher's still offline. I suggest to put 2-3 of it if possible. because we hate graffdigger's cage

Sudden Demise - Good sweeping card but I suggest Pyrokinesis is much efficient than this because pyro is instant, and you dont have to use mana.

Goblin Rabblemaster - Aggro type of Goblin Stompy, This card can kill opponents fast.



What do you think?


Thanks!

[Ace/Homebrew]

What do you think?
There's nothing wrong with your main deck. :smile:
How has it performed for you?

I'm not sure you need Confusion in the Ranks though. Why not go to 4 Ensnaring Bridge and Tormod's Crypt? You could also fit another toolbox goblin in there if you cut CitR.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Went 4-1 at my weekly. Total of 19 players.

Mana
11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Prison
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Phyrexian Revoker

Threats
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Instigator Gang
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Sarkhan the Dragonspeaker

Removal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sudden Demise
2 Flames of the Firebrand

------------
Sideboard
3 Anarchy
4 Trinisphere
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of the Void


I dodged Show and Tell all night, which was good for me because I'm pretty dead against it with this list.

R1: ANT. Win 2-0
Benefit of playing a hateful deck in a local meta. I get a Phyrexian Revoker naming Lion's Eye Diamond turn 1 on the play. That slowed him down long enough to lock him under more hate.

R2: R/G RUG Delver Win 2-0
He mulls to 4 on the play. Game 3 he can't get his 2 Delver of Secrets to flip.

R3: U/R Delver. Loss 0-2
Both games Ancient Tombs contribute to his plan to burn me out...

R4: Esperblade. Win 2-1
He mulls to 6 looking for Force of Will which he uses to counter the Magus I pour 2 Simian Spirit Guides into. He Thoughtseizes a Revoker. I rip a Blood Moon from the top and he gets stuck with a Swamp and Mountains.
Game 3, Jitte and a Revoker naming Batterskull let me get too far ahead.

Top 8, R5: RGu Combo Lands. Win 2-1
Blood Moon.

Got $47.50 in credit. Put that, plus some cards, towards a Liliana of the Veil.

[cin]

There's nothing wrong with your main deck.
How has it performed for you?

I'm not sure you need Confusion in the Ranks though. Why not go to 4 Ensnaring Bridge and Tormod's Crypt? You could also fit another toolbox goblin in there if you cut CitR.

Here's my last tournament (40+ Players):
6 Rounds = 3Wins 3Loss

1st Matchup = BUG Delver 2-1
Note:
1st Game he won by killing me with goyfs
2nd Game I won because of Blood Moon Effect and he can't cast anything (no basic lands on the deck)
3rd Game I played Bloodmoon on the midgame, He already has 2 Deathrite Shaman and 1 Goyf, But my moggcatcher fetched siege gang commander on the Blockers step to block 2 DRS and 1 Goyf, I'm Down to 1 but I overwhelmed him with my Siege-Gang KikiJiki.

2nd Matchup = Junk 2-0
1st Game I won because of Bloodmoon effects and lock pieces (trinisphere and cotv)
2nd game same

3rd Matchup = Miracles 2-1
1st Game I won through Moggcatcher getting toolboxes and killin him
2nd Game He won by countering all my stuffs and having JTMS
3rd Game I won by having all the lock pcs (blood moon, cotv, trinisphere) Im down to 2 because of vendilion Clique attacking me 6 times because of no blockers available, I topped decked murderous redcap and casted it on my turn, and luckily he has no counterspells to counter my redcap, I killed his Vendilion Clique. I Aggroed him all the way.

4th Matchup = Maverick 1-2
1st Game I won through bloodmoon and lockpcs
2nd Game I lost because of him fetching basics and aggroing me up. (misplayed on my decision on playing Siegegang on 2nd turn instead of moggcatcher) If I was to play moggcatcher by then. I would have my toolbox kill him.
3rd Game same

5th Matchup = Sneak Show 0-2
1st Game I didn't have my Stingscourger on my Mainboard that time so basically im screwed once showandtell emrakul comes. and it didt happen so I lost.
2nd Game I did enter my stingscourger but I cant stop sneakattack from resolving. so basically dead too.

6th Matchup = Omni-Tell 0-2
1st Game Had no Idea he's on Omnitell so I go for my toolbox shenanigans and then boom. got me.
2nd Game I tried putting some of my SBs to prevent his deck. But I could stop the deck because of his bounce spells.

That's why i realized that I need to put Confusion in the Ranks on my SB.

Any insights and suggestions? Our meta is high on SNeak Decks and Delver Decks.

[Zupponn]

One tip against Omni-Tell is to hold 3Sphere in your hand. Never try to cast it for fear of counters. Their only way to win is through Show and Tell usually, so just wait to drop it off of that. Their lists vary, so be aware that Dream Halls is a thing and that it costs 5 mana and keep an eye on their lands. I feel that trying to aggressively going for a Settler plan would be correct in this matchup if you can, otherwise try to kill then ASAP.

Edit: Sneak Show is a pain in the ass. Bridge is your best friend. I also bring in an Emrakul of my own to try to live the dream (which I have). I tend to ignore Sneak Attack and focus on messing with Show and Tell. Dropping Moggcatcher off of SaT can let you fetch up Stingscourger on your following turn to bounce their threat, so it might not be correct to run it out too early.

[cin]

One tip against Omni-Tell is to hold 3Sphere in your hand. Never try to cast it for fear of counters. Their only way to win is through Show and Tell usually, so just wait to drop it off of that. Their lists vary, so be aware that Dream Halls is a thing and that it costs 5 mana and keep an eye on their lands. I feel that trying to aggressively going for a Settler plan would be correct in this matchup if you can, otherwise try to kill then ASAP.

Edit: Sneak Show is a pain in the ass. Bridge is your best friend. I also bring in an Emrakul of my own to try to live the dream (which I have). I tend to ignore Sneak Attack and focus on messing with Show and Tell. Dropping Moggcatcher off of SaT can let you fetch up Stingscourger on your following turn to bounce their threat, so it might not be correct to run it out too early.

Hi Zupponn, Yep You are right on Trinisphere against Omni-Tell, regarding on Sneak Show Decks, Show and Tell is less threat against our decks, but the Sneak attack is really a pain in the a** becuase they can sneak in creatures that will trigger attack first. if they have many manas open they can enter their creatures in play for 1 red during combat phase and we bounce their creatures using mogg-stingscourger effect but after bouncing it they can still enter their emrakul using 1 red mana again then boom annihilate 6. even if we bounce it again using kiki-jiki copying stingscourger, if its on the declarte attackers phase, the Annihilate will still resolve after passing the priority to him. they also have Ashen Riders! I hate that card, it destroys e.bridges lol. What do you think? That's why I put imperial recruiters and phyrexian revoker to nullify sneak attack.

[Zupponn]

I went on to TC Decks and looked at the top 16 Sneak Show decks in the past month. There have been 5 top decks in that category. In them they have 3 Echoing Truths, 2 Wipe Aways and 1 Ashen Rider all in the sideboards. That's not too many. Besides, it's already a bad matchup and I'll just stick with my Bridges. I'm not going to sacrifice my consistency and strong matchups against other decks to try and gain a couple extra percentage points against them.

Revoker has never seemed too great in this deck to me unless you slap equipment on him and if that's the case, then I would rather have something better that can be scary by itself without equipment, which I've slowly been cutting back on (I was running a full playset of Jittes back when Jitte killed your opponents' Jitte!).

By the way, if I ever get some free time, I'm going to test Dualcaster Mage. I love that card so much.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I got in some preliminary testing of Qal Sisma Behemoth! Two copies went in my maindeck.

I went 2-2 at my weekly, but I saw the card a few times and was surprised at the reaction from my opponents over his perceived strength. He met Force of Will or Swords to Plowshares every time I played him, which is fine with me because it lets me keep more important things.

I found with only 2 copies, I usually had the extra 2 mana to 'use' him if needed. Only once did I play him without the extra mana for blocks, but I was already dead on board so it wasn't a feel-bad moment.

Two copies felt right. He doesn't feel like a 4-of creature... Even 3 may be too many.

[Ziveeman]

Thoughts on Thunderbreak Regent in Dragon Stompy? A local player T8'd our Arizona Legacy Champs with Thunderbreaks in his deck. I haven't seen any discussion on it yet, but he seems good.

[Tokugawa]

Thoughts on Thunderbreak Regent in Dragon Stompy? A local player T8'd our Arizona Legacy Champs with Thunderbreaks in his deck. I haven't seen any discussion on it yet, but he seems good.

May have some synergy if stormbreath dragons already included in your deck?

Rabblemaster, Stormbreath dragon, Sarkhan, and this guy...is it a chance to introduce standard players to legacy?

[potatodavid]

Boil or Anarchy in the sideboard.

I'm considering running boil just because, ISLANDS! Probably will do a 2x2 split of it an anarchy. Anyone tried this yet?

[Zupponn]

Anarchy is awesome. It really hurts both Death and Taxes as well as Enchantress, which can both be difficult matchups. I've personally never had any need for Boil because in most of the games I'd want that their islands are already mountains.