[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[potatodavid]

Heh, that didn't even brain for me. I have the dumb.

[Morzas]

I 2-2'd my last weekly tournament (W, L, L, Bye (pity win's still a win!)). Round 1 was vs BUG Delver, which was an easy win. Then I faced Aluren, back-to-back (only two people in the tournament were on it) and got crushed. I think the biggest mistake I made was keeping a hand that had turn 1 + turn 2 Rabblemaster -- this kind of aggro hand can crush some decks, but I found that Aluren isn't just the combo, it also has a lot of strong early plays that disrupt an aggro hand pretty well. In your experience, is it better to aggressively mulligan to a disruptive hand against Aluren?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I think the biggest mistake I made was keeping a hand that had turn 1 + turn 2 Rabblemaster.
It's difficult to send back that hand as it has the potential to end the game quicker than any other start we have... How did they fight through it? Removal?

Depending on the cards in your maindeck, I would treat them as a combo deck and mulligan to Trinisphere, or keep a hand with a moon effect and chalice. I believe most lists only run 4 basics, so a turn 1 moon hurts them because they need :g::g: to cast Aluren. I am not familiar enough to know how badly CotV@1 hurts them. In fact, CotV@2 may prevent them from winning because I think their bounce card is CMC2.

[Morzas]

Early Baleful Strix meant Rabblemaster couldn't swing in, and they had the FoW for the 2nd one. A few turns later, they landed Aluren and it was GG.

I had a couple games where I got a Chalice on 1 and it didn't really disrupt them. All it does is stop DRS, and the core cards of their deck cost 2 and 3. I agree with the plan of mulling until you get 3Sphere or a Moon.

[Jakobian]

Why aren't any of the moggcatcher-centric lists running a 1-of goblin king as a moggcatcher target? Mountainwalk + blood moon/magus of the moon seems amazing. I am going to try it this week, I'll post results and my list if it goes well.

[Zupponn]

Probably because if you have a moon effect down then you've most likely already won the game.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Goblin King?
I am going to try it this week, I'll post results and my list if it goes well.
You should post the results either way. :wink:

I tried it out last night and never once fetched for it (played against RUG, Sneak & Snow, TES, and D&T). I imprinted it on a Chrome Mox once...
Certainly not extensive testing on my part, but my current opinion is 'Meh...' :rolleyes:

[kinda]

Why aren't any of the moggcatcher-centric lists running a 1-of goblin king as a moggcatcher target? Mountainwalk + blood moon/magus of the moon seems amazing. I am going to try it this week, I'll post results and my list if it goes well.

Gon get shell docked and false cured.

[nodahero]

I tested GKing a while back, the issue is that he is significantly more fragile than his Gruul cousin against mass removal such as Clasm/Spout and the mountain walk is fairly moot 9/10 times.

[Morzas]

Do you all board out Moon effects vs Miracles? I used to board them out because they regularly fetch basic Island against me, but I'm finding that I win the games where I have a Moon in play because it stops their fetches, making Brainstorm and JTMS a lot less powerful. Also, they help in cutting off the double-white they need for Entreat the Angels. What are your guys' sideboard plans against Miracles?

[Nuke is Good]

Do you all board out Moon effects vs Miracles? I used to board them out because they regularly fetch basic Island against me, but I'm finding that I win the games where I have a Moon in play because it stops their fetches, making Brainstorm and JTMS a lot less powerful. Also, they help in cutting off the double-white they need for Entreat the Angels. What are your guys' sideboard plans against Miracles?

I don't play Dragon Stompy, but I play painter which has similar strategies with Blood Moon. I keep blood moons in but I sometimes cut Magus of the Moon. Shutting off fetches and their duals helps a bit, but you need to weigh your options. If you can throw down a turn 1 Trinisphere I'd probably do that first over a Blood Moon against a heavier basic deck like Miracles.

[LeoCop 90]

I found moons to be pretty good against miracles. They need double blue, double white and they need fetches to shuffle.
I can see cutting one moon to avoid getting flooded with them, and i wouldn't cut maguses because a disruptive threat is exactly what you want against a control deck.

[Zupponn]

I drop the Blood Moons for an overload of threats. I want Miracles to interact with me early and often as I play one must kill threat at a time until they run out of resources.

I remember one game where I turn 1 Rabblemaster, which makes a token and gets in for 1 damage. The Miracles player Swordsed the Rabblemaster, but that token stayed around for 5 or 6 turns, pinging for one damage the whole time. He eventually got Swordsed as well.:laugh:

The point is, even if you drop a single Rabblemaster or Rakka Mar or Moggcatcher, they could be forced into using something like Terminus to basically 1 for 1 you. With cards like those, you don't need to drop anything else until they deal with your threat. Then you drop the next one and play the same game all over again. If they don't have an answer, then you win quickly.

I like Settler in this matchup and Koth is almost unbeatable vs them. Their only answer might be Council's Judgement and if so, they probably only run one.

[LeoCop 90]

My experience of moon being good comes from playing painter. Dragon stompy has more effective threats and for sure what zupponn said is right, but i just assure you that i won against miracles keeping terrible hands with a turn one moon that prevented them to develop their gameplan effectively. Sometimes they get completely locked, more often though they are just stuck with one blue mana and one white mana if they are lucky, and need to topdeck because they can't shuffle their library. Meanwhile they can't play jace, clique or entreat the angels which is basically all their win conditions. Sure, it might happen that you drop a moon and they have all the basics, but to be fair it happened to me once out of a lot of games.
I don't know, if you feel your threats are enough to seal the deal and nothing is worse than moon in your deck against miracles, then power to you. I didn't play this deck recently so i'm not in the position to convince anyone, but i'm just sharing my experience.

[Ace/Homebrew]

All the advice given is good! I want to point out that stopping Brainstorm and Jace, the Mind Sculptor usually isn't as important as stopping (or weakening the value of) Sensei's Divining Top. I will typically cut Trinisphere before Moons against Miracles (they're going to hit 3 mana by turn 3 every single game) although usually creature removal comes out first.

I am also very liberal with Ancient Tomb against Miracles. You're life is a great resource against that deck and I will willingly trade 2 life for :2: every turn until they die. :laugh:

[Lyle Hopkins]

I'm interested in what the Dragon Stompy community thinks of a more control oriented build, à la Michael Sommer (http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/73375) and Zach Dobbin (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=76931). I've been testing a similar list with some success and I would appreciate some feedback from anyone who has experience with this deck.

This is my current deck-list:

4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Magma Jet
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Blood Moon
4 Koth of the Hammer
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Crystal Ball

SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Bonfire of the Damned
SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Magus of the Moon
SB: 3 Anarchy
SB: 3 ?


I'm not entirely sure what to include in the sideboard yet.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm interested in what the Dragon Stompy community thinks of a more control oriented build, à la Michael Sommer (http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/73375) and Zach Dobbin (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=76931).
Hah! Zach and I are Dragon Stompy buds. :laugh:
I might see him tonight. I'll tell him to comment here.

I am a huge fan of a planeswalker control DS list. It's the sole reason I want a Forcefield.
Crystal Ball is always amazing (like scrying away a land and a Chrome Mox amazing), but drawing the 2nd one sucks.

Would you ever consider Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker? It's a nonbo with Ensnaring Bridge, but no worse than Koth's +1 is...

It looks like you have an extra Mountain instead of the Forcefield (based on Sommer's list). Any reason you went with the extra Mountain over the 4th Magus? Forcefield costs a fortune, so I understand why that isn't in your list. Man, I want one so bad...

[ZTurgeon]

I don't play Dragon Stompy, but I play painter which has similar strategies with Blood Moon. I keep blood moons in but I sometimes cut Magus of the Moon. Shutting off fetches and their duals helps a bit, but you need to weigh your options. If you can throw down a turn 1 Trinisphere I'd probably do that first over a Blood Moon against a heavier basic deck like Miracles.

It is very play/draw dependant. If I'm on the play, I jam the blood moon 100% of the time. They can't afford to mulligan to basics because they lose the games where they run out of cards, regardless of if they have lands or not.

Plus them never getting to brainstorm or top with fetches is a huge deal. They frankly are a very bad deck if they can't shuffle every other turn.

[Lyle Hopkins]

Hah! Zach and I are Dragon Stompy buds. :laugh:
I might see him tonight. I'll tell him to comment here.

I am a huge fan of a planeswalker control DS list. It's the sole reason I want a Forcefield.
Crystal Ball is always amazing (like scrying away a land and a Chrome Mox amazing), but drawing the 2nd one sucks.

Would you ever consider Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker? It's a nonbo with Ensnaring Bridge, but no worse than Koth's +1 is...

It looks like you have an extra Mountain instead of the Forcefield (based on Sommer's list). Any reason you went with the extra Mountain over the 4th Magus? Forcefield costs a fortune, so I understand why that isn't in your list. Man, I want one so bad...

I feel like I want more land in the deck, but I could be mistaken. I'd be interested to hear Zach's opinion on the deck. Also, I found a more recent list (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9027&d=251434&f=LE)from Michael Sommer. The Bottled Cloister seems neat to me. I'm not entirely sure if I would replace Crystal Ball with it, but Bottled Cloister definitely has some nice synergy with Ensnaring Bridge. It's terrible against Show and Tell though.

[PollePotDK]

I started playing the Mono Red Sneak Attack deck, which relies heavily on a combo finish, but have lately started looking into Dragon Stompy, since I like the idea of a board presence in a creature and not at two card combo (Sneak/Breach and fatty), plus more prison locks.

I play a DS build with Rabblemaster, Stormbreath Dragon and Hound of Griselbrand with Koth i SB, but I really like the idea of a Planeswalker build with Ensnaring bridge. However, I can't seem to figure out the PW setup.

Koth is an auto include, BUT I am split on which Chandra I want. Chandra Pyromaster pings and is card advantage, but the Ultimate are meeh ... or am I missing something?

Chandra Firebrand can a little of it all, but no card advantage.

Chandra Nalaar I don't know what I think about, and Chandra Ablaze is too expensive.

Sarkhan with Ensnaring Bridge is not so good. Koth can at least tick up to the useful Ultimate.

Tibal and Daretti is a no go or what?

/PollePotDK

[Gikkman]

Tibal and Daretti is a no go or what?

/PollePotDK

I don't know... I like the idea of playing Daretti somehow and switching a Chrome Mox or the similar for a discarded Wurmcoil (or the similar). I just can't seem to get it to work.

Tibalt... maybe he's playable. I know I often find myself top-decking with nothing but air in hand. His plus would at least increase the odds of finding something in that situation. The negative side is that almost none of his abilities do anything.

[Lyle Hopkins]

I started playing the Mono Red Sneak Attack deck, which relies heavily on a combo finish, but have lately started looking into Dragon Stompy, since I like the idea of a board presence in a creature and not at two card combo (Sneak/Breach and fatty), plus more prison locks.

I play a DS build with Rabblemaster, Stormbreath Dragon and Hound of Griselbrand with Koth i SB, but I really like the idea of a Planeswalker build with Ensnaring bridge. However, I can't seem to figure out the PW setup.

Koth is an auto include, BUT I am split on which Chandra I want. Chandra Pyromaster pings and is card advantage, but the Ultimate are meeh ... or am I missing something?

Chandra Firebrand can a little of it all, but no card advantage.

Chandra Nalaar I don't know what I think about, and Chandra Ablaze is too expensive.

Sarkhan with Ensnaring Bridge is not so good. Koth can at least tick up to the useful Ultimate.

Tibal and Daretti is a no go or what?

/PollePotDK

I've been testing 2 copies of Chandra, Pyromaster and it seems good. Daretti, Scrap Savant might be worth checking out too.

[Zupponn]

If you were to go a controling route, then I think only Daretti and Chandra, Pyromaster are even worth looking into. Sarkhan is maybe an option, but doesn't seem to fit too well with the others. Tibalt is garbage and Koth doesn't do much to really help a control strategy. The rest of the Chandras sort of suck also. You'd almost be better off splashing a color to give you access to stuff like Dack or Ajani Vengeant.

[Dziga Murnau]

I always loved to play Chandra Nalaar in red stompies. But that was in times when Seething Song was a must have. Fast Nalaar completely destroys creature decks, removing both attackers while we establish our lock and blockers when our finishers hit the board. Late Nalaar helps to clear the battlefield also - and if we managed to lock the opponent, she just beats face in three turns.
But five mana without Songs is something pretty unreachable and unneeded in the days of Moggcatchers...
I even called the deck Big Red Riding Hood with all the lock pieces viewed as cakes I feed to my opponent.

[LeoCop 90]

Well, it is true that koth is not a control card at all .... but i think the supporters of a "control build" here just want to play a deck that hiding behind ensnaring bridges and mass removal kills the opponent with planeswalker. With control build they basically mean a creatureless build, or build that win without attacking with creatures. Koth is ideal in this strategy because he close games so fast with his ultimate ; since we can't hope the ensnaring bridge lock to last forever (most decks have answers to it), we need things that win fast anyway.

I just think we miss one last planeswalker for such a build. Koth is good, chandra pyromaster is ok (not the best because winning by pinging for one every turn is very very slow, but she also provides card advantage. maybe she could be better in a build with some burn spells to make use of her ultimate? ). The last good red planeswalker is sarkhan, that unfortunately does nothing in a deck that wants ensnaring bridge .... and his ultimate does nothing to win the game. In the meantime jaya is a good alternative although she gets easily killed..... but we ca hope for the red planeswalker in magic origins to be good !

[Dziga Murnau]

Well, it is true that koth is not a control card at all .... but i think the supporters of a "control build" here just want to play a deck that hiding behind ensnaring bridges and mass removal kills the opponent with planeswalker. With control build they basically mean a creatureless build, or build that win without attacking with creatures. Koth is ideal in this strategy because he close games so fast with his ultimate ; since we can't hope the ensnaring bridge lock to last forever (most decks have answers to it), we need things that win fast anyway.

I just think we miss one last planeswalker for such a build. Koth is good, chandra pyromaster is ok (not the best because winning by pinging for one every turn is very very slow, but she also provides card advantage. maybe she could be better in a build with some burn spells to make use of her ultimate? ). The last good red planeswalker is sarkhan, that unfortunately does nothing in a deck that wants ensnaring bridge .... and his ultimate does nothing to win the game. In the meantime jaya is a good alternative although she gets easily killed..... but we ca hope for the red planeswalker in magic origins to be good !
So why not Chandra Nalaar? Bang-bang-bang 12 damage in the face! Koth helps to cast her, she protects Koth from creatures. What a pair!

[Gikkman]

Well, it is true that koth is not a control card at all .... but i think the supporters of a "control build" here just want to play a deck that hiding behind ensnaring bridges and mass removal kills the opponent with planeswalker. With control build they basically mean a creatureless build, or build that win without attacking with creatures.

Yes, this is my impression too. I want to say though that I support a good control build. A control build might be able to circumvent the main problems I've encountered:

I have tested a few Stompy lists by now (R/W, Dragons, Werewolves and Goblins) and the common there for them seem to be that 1) You have a hard time against an early threat (say a t1 Delver or Deathrite Shaman) or 2) You have a hard time against other "fair" decks (such as Maverik, Jund and possibly Nic-Fit) and lastly 3) Lilliana of the Veil wrecks you (planeswalkers in general is a huge problem).

Then again, I am kinda new to this so I might be wrong in my obersvations.

[Zupponn]

I have tested a few Stompy lists by now (R/W, Dragons, Werewolves and Goblins) and the common there for them seem to be that 1) You have a hard time against an early threat (say a t1 Delver or Deathrite Shaman) or 2) You have a hard time against other "fair" decks (such as Maverik, Jund and possibly Nic-Fit) and lastly 3) Lilliana of the Veil wrecks you (planeswalkers in general is a huge problem).
I have not noticed any of those issues with the Goblin version, especially Liliana since the deck is built to survive her. Honestly, I think that Punishing Fire is probably the most difficult card to play against.

[LeoCop 90]

Yeah, chandra nalaar could be a good option, at least she can act as a real removal spell that kills more than x/1's.

[TMPWDobs]

Hey Zach Dobbin here friend told me this thread was talking about my list ask away I'll try to answer any questions...

[Ace/Homebrew]

Thanks Zach. :cool:

I'm going to try out your list on Wednesday.

How important is Bridge against D&T/Maverick, Delver, and Blade decks? Would you mull to a Bridge or just hope to draw it?
What would your sideboard look like now? Would you still use Ashen Rider and Form of the Dragon?

[Gikkman]

Hey Zach Dobbin here friend told me this thread was talking about my list ask away I'll try to answer any questions...

Could we get the current list? :smile:

[TMPWDobs]

Thanks Zach. :cool:

I'm going to try out your list on Wednesday.

How important is Bridge against D&T/Maverick, Delver, and Blade decks? Would you mull to a Bridge or just hope to draw it? Bridge is good versus those decks but you mostly want to blood moon those decks out. Against delver you keep a hand if it has chalice or blood moon. With Crystal Ball and even Magma Jet which is amazing killing early delver/stoneforge you actually can fix your draws with deck which is issue for traditional stompy list...
What would your sideboard look like now? Would you still use Ashen Rider and Form of the Dragon?
Ya the sideboard was mostly meta built for the event Ashen Rider was because I knew there would be 3 show and tell decks in the room card is very good in a show and tell meta Emrakruel was there for painter and Form of the Dragon was there as a joke lol

The planeswalker build gives you a better matchup vs D & T

Also I will try to post an updated list/sideboard choices based on meta you might encounter in addition to a more traditional creature build stompy list later tonight

[Ace/Homebrew]

I took the Planeswalker Control build to Redcap's last night. Got 5th out of 24 after 4 rounds (3-1) then got knocked out by Miracles in the Top 8.

Sideboard was:
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Trinisphere
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Fortune Thief
1 Stranglehold

I lost the first round to OmniTell. I beat EsperBlade, Miracles, and RUG Lands.
I had a chance to tie it up against Miracles in the Top 8, but got flustered by the Miracle trigger for Bonfire of the Damned. I miracle it for X=2 rather then just drawing it and turning it into an Incinerate with Jaya Ballard, Task Mage. Instead he used his only basic to cast Snapcaster Mage and block my attacking Magus of the Moon. That trade turned all his Mountains back into fancy lands and he ran away with it from there.

I think I've finally given up on trying to make Stranglehold work as a sideboard card...
Ensnaring Bridge was awesome.
My loss to OmniTell wasn't terrible. I got game 2. None of the games felt like blowouts, but Dig Through Time is soooo good. :rolleyes:

Zack, my Miracles opponent in the Top 8 was a nice guy. After he knocked me out of prizes I went to the counter to buy a DD Chandra Nalaar. As I handed my cash over to the store, Zach offered to pay for it with the credit he won. :laugh:
Thanks Zack!

[TMPWDobs]

I took the Planeswalker Control build to Redcap's last night. Got 5th out of 24 after 4 rounds (3-1) then got knocked out by Miracles in the Top 8.

Sideboard was:
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Trinisphere
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Fortune Thief
1 Stranglehold

I lost the first round to OmniTell. I beat EsperBlade, Miracles, and RUG Lands.
I had a chance to tie it up against Miracles in the Top 8, but got flustered by the Miracle trigger for Bonfire of the Damned. I miracle it for X=2 rather then just drawing it and turning it into an Incinerate with Jaya Ballard, Task Mage. Instead he used his only basic to cast Snapcaster Mage and block my attacking Magus of the Moon. That trade turned all his Mountains back into fancy lands and he ran away with it from there.

I think I've finally given up on trying to make Stranglehold work as a sideboard card...
Ensnaring Bridge was awesome.
My loss to OmniTell wasn't terrible. I got game 2. None of the games felt like blowouts, but Dig Through Time is soooo good. :rolleyes:

Zack, my Miracles opponent in the Top 8 was a nice guy. After he knocked me out of prizes I went to the counter to buy a DD Chandra Nalaar. As I handed my cash over to the store, Zach offered to pay for it with the credit he won. :laugh:
Thanks Zack!

Good job was the list was then Zack Zack Mullen? If so I've known him for awhile and he is a real nice guy. The miracle trigger with Bonfire can be tricky...

[Ace/Homebrew]

Good job was the list was then Zack Zack Mullen? If so I've known him for awhile and he is a real nice guy. The miracle trigger with Bonfire can be tricky...
The very same! :laugh:
He has obviously spent a lot of time and effort on his deck. I saw a lot of Asian text and his German Brainstorms had been altered.

There really isn't anything too tricky about the Miracle trigger... I just had a spaz attack. I'm sure it was funny to see. I dropped it like it burned me because I didn't want to miss the trigger by having it touch my hand. Then I tapped my 3 mana before analyzing whether it was the best move to make. Once I made the mistake I should have just passed the turn, but I got greedy and attacked him knowing full well he may have had a Snapcaster Mage in his hand.

What is your boarding plan against Miracles? I did not make any changes in my Top 8 match...
In round 2 I made the mistake of boarding out Bridges and Bonfires (for Crypts and 3spheres). This was a mistake because apparently Miracle's new tech is to board in Monastery Mentor knowing the opponent is likely to board out removal. I got a reminder that Tormod's Crypt is not an effective hate card for Dig Through Time. Game 3 I returned the deck to normal. I used the lessons from round 2 for my games against Zack but made other mistakes that cost me prize support. :rolleyes:

[Blastoderm]

Yes, this is my impression too. I want to say though that I support a good control build. A control build might be able to circumvent the main problems I've encountered:

I have tested a few Stompy lists by now (R/W, Dragons, Werewolves and Goblins) and the common there for them seem to be that 1) You have a hard time against an early threat (say a t1 Delver or Deathrite Shaman) or 2) You have a hard time against other "fair" decks (such as Maverik, Jund and possibly Nic-Fit) and lastly 3) Lilliana of the Veil wrecks you (planeswalkers in general is a huge problem).

Then again, I am kinda new to this so I might be wrong in my obersvations.

Which is why I play Sudden Shocks in the main and all my creatures are resilient against planeswalkers. Siege Gang Commander wrecks the shit out of fair decks.

[TMPWDobs]

Sudden Shock is good because of split second but I prefer Magma Jet for the scry effect since main issue with deck is your draws at least in my experience...

[Lyle Hopkins]

For people running the control/planeswalker build, what are some sideboard cards you would suggest for the current metagame? Also, what do you typically board out?

[Blastoderm]

Sudden Shock is good because of split second but I prefer Magma Jet for the scry effect since main issue with deck is your draws at least in my experience...

Killing delver or stoneforge with no fear of it being dazed/pierced is pretty important imo..

[TMPWDobs]

Killing delver or stoneforge with no fear of it being dazed/pierced is pretty important imo..

Playing around daze isn't that bad against delver stoneforge decks usually if you lock a hate piece early blood moon chalice game will end quickly... I would say you lose that matchup to bad draws and timely forces...

[Ace/Homebrew]

Just returned from the latest installment of the Philadelphia Legacy Series. This time was at Redcap's Corner. Twenty-Nine players made it out for the event, so the turn-out was equivalent to a really good weekly there... :rolleyes:

I brought Eight Moon Stompy.

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge

4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

4 Magma Jet
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Crystal Ball

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal

Sideboard
2 Chandra Nalaar
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Trinisphere
4 Tormod's Crypt

I ended up 4-1 in Swiss, which was good for 1st place before Top 8.
I was paired up against Storm combo 5 out of 7 rounds! :laugh:

R1 Zach 2-1 Ad Nauseum Tendrils
I put Zach on Miracles because that is what he plays. He got game 1 because I kept a hand to play against Miracles...
I win games 2 and 3.

R2 David 2-1 The Epic Storm
He got game 1 with 14 Gobs and I couldn't get cards out of my hand quick enough to hide behind my Bridge.
I win games 2 and 3.

R3 Jack 0-2 Ad Nauseum Tendrils
I put him on a Force of Will deck because what are the chances I'd play Storm 3 times in a row?? I slow rolled a hand of Magus, Mox, Mox, red card, red card, Mountain, and Magma Jet in fear of FoW. He fetches for a basic Swamp his first turn and it was downhill from there...
Game 2 I mulled to 4...

R4 Roy 2-1 Dark Maverick
Chalice and Moon game 1. He got game 2. He mulled to 5 game 3.

R5 Avery 2-1 Food Chain
I got the first game. He combo'd off the 2nd game. I kept a Moon-man hand the 3rd game and he mulled to 6. Moon-man slowly got there.

Top 8
I was the top seed. The Top 8 consisted of:
Eight Moon Stompy
OmniTell
Miracles
U/R Delver
Ad Nauseum Tendrils
Jund
Dark Punishing Maverick
The Epic Storm

R6 Martin 2-0 The Epic Storm

R7 Jack (again...) 1-2 Ad Nauseum Tendrils
I got him game 1. He got me game 2. Game 3 I kept a hand of CoT, CoT, Trini, Trini, Crypt, 6, 7. I drew a Mountain to play the 2nd CoT, then I didn't draw land for pretty much the rest of the game. Long enough for him to find 2 Abrupt Decays and go off. :cry:

I got $70 bucks in credit. I put it towards a Liliana of the Veil cause I want to build Modern Eight Rack.

[Blastoderm]

Moggcatcher made day 2 at the SCG open this weekend :)

[TMPWDobs]

Just returned from the latest installment of the Philadelphia Legacy Series. This time was at Redcap's Corner. Twenty-Nine players made it out for the event, so the turn-out was equivalent to a really good weekly there... :rolleyes:

I brought Eight Moon Stompy.

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge

4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

4 Magma Jet
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Crystal Ball

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal

Sideboard
2 Chandra Nalaar
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Trinisphere
4 Tormod's Crypt

I ended up 4-1 in Swiss, which was good for 1st place before Top 8.
I was paired up against Storm combo 5 out of 7 rounds! :laugh:

R1 Zach 2-1 Ad Nauseum Tendrils
I put Zach on Miracles because that is what he plays. He got game 1 because I kept a hand to play against Miracles...
I win games 2 and 3.

R2 David 2-1 The Epic Storm
He got game 1 with 14 Gobs and I couldn't get cards out of my hand quick enough to hide behind my Bridge.
I win games 2 and 3.

R3 Jack 0-2 Ad Nauseum Tendrils
I put him on a Force of Will deck because what are the chances I'd play Storm 3 times in a row?? I slow rolled a hand of Magus, Mox, Mox, red card, red card, Mountain, and Magma Jet in fear of FoW. He fetches for a basic Swamp his first turn and it was downhill from there...
Game 2 I mulled to 4...

R4 Roy 2-1 Dark Maverick
Chalice and Moon game 1. He got game 2. He mulled to 5 game 3.

R5 Avery 2-1 Food Chain
I got the first game. He combo'd off the 2nd game. I kept a Moon-man hand the 3rd game and he mulled to 6. Moon-man slowly got there.

Top 8
I was the top seed. The Top 8 consisted of:
Eight Moon Stompy
OmniTell
Miracles
U/R Delver
Ad Nauseum Tendrils
Jund
Dark Punishing Maverick
The Epic Storm

R6 Martin 2-0 The Epic Storm

R7 Jack (again...) 1-2 Ad Nauseum Tendrils
I got him game 1. He got me game 2. Game 3 I kept a hand of CoT, CoT, Trini, Trini, Crypt, 6, 7. I drew a Mountain to play the 2nd CoT, then I didn't draw land for pretty much the rest of the game. Long enough for him to find 2 Abrupt Decays and go off. :cry:

I got $70 bucks in credit. I put it towards a Liliana of the Veil cause I want to build Modern Eight Rack.

Awesome Good job man ;) Also from a play point don't fear force of will if they have it they have it don't be afraid to jam turn 1 moon or chalice most time if it sticks you win on the spot...

[Zupponn]

There are things you can play around and things you can't. Daze can be played around. FoW can't. Either way, we play very similar to an aggro deck. Don't hesitate when looking at the T1 lock piece. At worst they can 2 for 2 you with their FoW and at best you win the game. I think in that situation you just outthought yourself.

[Ace/Homebrew]

At worst they can 2 for 2 you with their FoW and at best you win the game. I think in that situation you just outthought yourself.
Well... FoW would have been a 2 for 5 in that specific scenario.

Chrome Mox + red card
Chrome Mox + red card
Magus of the Moon

Plus the Mountain, I'd have been left with 1 card in my hand. I suppose you could argue it's a 2 for 3 since I get to keep my moxen... :rolleyes:

Jack is someone I've played against frequently and I know he has access to all deck types.
I weighed losing game 1 to fast combo against losing to FoW. I guess my scale was off. I'll go back to screaming YOLO as I windmill slam stuff on the table. That's what I enjoy doing anyways. :laugh:


My experience on Saturday showed me the Ensnaring Bridge build is completely viable. It was an important part of my success against the two non-Storm decks I faced. Unfortunately Bridge requires some building around so you can't just jam it in the board and hope it wins you games.

[TMPWDobs]

Well... FoW would have been a 2 for 5 in that specific scenario.

Chrome Mox + red card
Chrome Mox + red card
Magus of the Moon

Plus the Mountain, I'd have been left with 1 card in my hand. I suppose you could argue it's a 2 for 3 since I get to keep my moxen... :rolleyes:

Jack is someone I've played against frequently and I know he has access to all deck types.
I weighed losing game 1 to fast combo against losing to FoW. I guess my scale was off. I'll go back to screaming YOLO as I windmill slam stuff on the table. That's what I enjoy doing anyways. :laugh:


My experience on Saturday showed me the Ensnaring Bridge build is completely viable. It was an important part of my success against the two non-Storm decks I faced. Unfortunately Bridge requires some building around so you can't just jam it in the board and hope it wins you games.

As someone who has had success with bridge I can say it is a very strong card it doesn't win games by itself but usually it buys you enough time to complete lock or give you time to win....

[MGB]

As someone who has had success with bridge I can say it is a very strong card it doesn't win games by itself but usually it buys you enough time to complete lock or give you time to win....

Zach, what are your thoughts on Goblin Rabblemaster in this deck?

[TMPWDobs]

Zach, what are your thoughts on Goblin Rabblemaster in this deck?

Goblin Rabblemaster is extremely powerful I've played the goblin build I have never tried him with bridge style builds... The card is extremely powerful if left unanswered and can end game quickly only prob with him is he is very fragile as he usually needs a chalice to be effective since he dies to popular removal in format...

[MGB]

So new card spoiled in Origins looks like an interesting fit in this deck:

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/magic-origins/25294-avaricious-dragon

Avaricious Dragon 2RR
Creature - Dragon

Flying
At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card.
At the beginning of your end step, discard your hand.

4/4


This deck doesn't mind being Hellbent, likes 2RR flying 4/4s, and could benefit from a source of card draw.

[Ace/Homebrew]

So new card spoiled in Origins looks like an interesting fit in this deck.
Swords to Plowshares/Removal after I discard my hand makes me feel bad. :cry:
Card has potential, but the other 4/4 dragon for 4 that bolts the opponent when removed seems better and doesn't get played...

[MGB]

Swords to Plowshares/Removal after I discard my hand makes me feel bad. :cry:
Card has potential, but the other 4/4 dragon for 4 that bolts the opponent when removed seems better and doesn't get played...

Well, ideally when the "discard" trigger occurs you have already played everything from your hand. You build the deck so there is very little you want to "keep" in hand past Turn 4. This deck used to play Rakdos Pit Dragon which incentivized going Hellbent.

Comparing this guy to the Regent that bolts opponent upon targeting is a good comparison to make. The key difference here is that card advantage trumps >>>>>>>>>> damage in games of Magic almost always. A 2RR 4/4 Flying Dark Confidant in this type of deck is basically several levels more powerful than a 4/4 Flying guy that might Bolt the opponent once before it dies.

[Octopusman]

This dragon has me highly skeptical since it still gets plowed and you discard your hand before you ever get to draw an extra card as mentioned.

I often want to have that backup moon for when one gets decayed.

The entire deck would have to be rebuilt. Faithless looting?

In Dragon Stompy, RR2 is just as hard to get as RR3, doubly so if you run seething songs which play into the hellbent strategy. I've been having a lot of success with Stormbreath dragon since it also survives bolt, decay, ignores plow, and gets in for 4 right away.

I was going to pick these up just to brew but the only set is $60 right now.

[edit] nevermind Starcity has preorder for $10 but very hesitant to pull the trigger even at that price.

[Bahra]

I often want to have that backup moon for when one gets decayed.


Your Blood Moons gets unexpectedly decayed how? The only decks that plays Abrupt Decay are Shardless BUG, BUG Delver and Jund. All those decks have a very difficult time decaying a blood moon that has already been on the table for a turn. And even if they somehow manage to do that, why don't you just play out 2 Blood Moons instead of holding 1 in hand?

The new dragon seems awesome and I think it goes into some versions of the deck for sure.

[Octopusman]

Your Blood Moons gets unexpectedly decayed how? The only decks that plays Abrupt Decay are Shardless BUG, BUG Delver and Jund. All those decks have a very difficult time decaying a blood moon that has already been on the table for a turn. And even if they somehow manage to do that, why don't you just play out 2 Blood Moons instead of holding 1 in hand?

The new dragon seems awesome and I think it goes into some versions of the deck for sure.

It's not unexpected. It's expected. And I'd prefer to have a backup for when it happens off of a Deathrite Shaman which is actually quite common and happens between the moon being on the battlefield and the option to drop a 2nd (not that it'd matter if there are one or two in play if they're casting decay off of a basic and a drs).

Like I said, the deck would have to be rebuilt. I'm interested in seeing lists.
I'm struggling to find the benefit of coming up with RR2 for a creature that will hellbent me after my combat phase (in the event I have gathan raiders), doesn't deal immediate damage, doesn't impact the board, "only" swings for 4. At least with Pit-Dragon, which died to bolt, you could usually swing for the kill if you were hellbent.

Just because I'm struggling doesn't mean I'm not trying.

Currently looking at:
Devastating Dreams
Faithless Looting
Scrap Mastery
Goblin Welder shenanigans.
To include the dragon means working out of the graveyard as a contingency at the minimum.

[Bahra]

So I decided to try out 8-moon stompy in a Legacy daily on Magic Online and here's how it went and the list I played:

http://i.imgur.com/4xt0PuW.png

I didn't have the 4th Rabblemaster or the 4th Grove of the Burnwillows so I played a Sudden Shock and a Mountain instead.

Round 1: UWR Delver 2-1

Game 1: I mulligan to 5 in my very first game with this deck, get my lock pieces FoW'd and then die to True-Name Nemesis. Great...

Game 2: Same business with the FoW'd but eventually I land Blood Moon and a Magus of the Moon and grind my way through a Batterskull with Jitte on the Magus.

Game 3: Early Blood Moon + Chalice + Spirit Guides bring it home

Round 2: 4c Delver 2-0

Game 1: He plays 2 Gurmag Anglers and a True-Name Nemesis, I play a Jitte and a Hound of Griselbrand, he hits me to 1 and I attack into his 2 Anglers with Jitte-equipped Hound. I let first strike resolve, then punishing fire the damaged angler, then pump the hound to 7/7 (it was bolted earlier to trigger undying) and then we stare at each other for a few turns and I land a Chalice. I then find Prophetic Flamespeaker that easily hits through True-Name Nemesis when it has a Jitte equipped.

Game 2: Early Chalice + Magus of the Moon seals it.

Round 3: ANT 2-1

Game 1: I keep a turn 2 Trinisphere on the play and he goes turn 1 Ad Nauseam. He strips my hand and passes the turn at 2 life, I top deck Punishing Fire and he's done.

Game 2: I keep a hand with a turn 1 Goblin Rabblemaster but no disruption, figuring I can draw one of my 16 pieces before I die. I don't and die on turn 3.

Game 3: I play turn 1 Chalice on 1, turn 2 Magus of the Moon, turn 3 Rabblemaster and he's done.

Round 4: Ponder Miracles 2-0

Game 1: I keep 1 Mountain on the draw with 2 SSGs, Magus of the Moon, Koth of the Hammer and Prophetic Flamespeaker I draw another Flamespeaker for my turn. I decide to go for broke and play turn 1 Flamespeaker. It Resolves. On turn 2 it hits him and show Mountain + Chalice. I play them, next turn I hit land + Blood Moon and that is game.

Game 2: I go turn 1 Chalice, Turn 2 Blood Moon, Turn 3 Flamespeaker. He has a Monastery Mentor but concedes to the Flamespeaker.



I really had fun playing the deck, and really got in touch with the Blood Moon side of me and that felt great. I will try it again another time, but with a more optimal list. Although I think it was close to a very good list. Worst cards by far was Goblin Rabblemaster. Everything else was great.

Edit: Just realized I was playing a 13 card sideboard. The 2 last slots were supposed to be Pyroclasms but I guess the client didn't load the deck properly. Oh well, hardly needed the pyroclasms anyways.

[Redkid43]

I can assume that Flamespeaker and Jite was about as disgusting as it seems.

Would new Dragon replace Hound? Or is double strike that good?

[Bahra]

I can assume that Flamespeaker and Jite was about as disgusting as it seems.

Would new Dragon replace Hound? Or is double strike that good?

Double Strike is super good, but I suspect the dragon is just better.

[Morzas]

Went 3-0-1 at Card Kingdom with Moggcatcher Stompy tonight. Faced Miracles, Grixis Delver, Food Chain and drew with Infect (probably could have beaten him but I wanted ice cream.) Got $50 store credit. I feel like I'm getting better at the deck. Funniest opening hand of the night was 2x Chrome Mox, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the Moon, Chalice of the Void, Sudden Demise, Moggcatcher. T1 Magus into T2 Chalice made my opponent scoop.

[Bahra]

Went 3-0-1 at Card Kingdom with Moggcatcher Stompy tonight. Faced Miracles, Grixis Delver, Food Chain and drew with Infect (probably could have beaten him but I wanted ice cream.) Got $50 store credit. I feel like I'm getting better at the deck. Funniest opening hand of the night was 2x Chrome Mox, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the Moon, Chalice of the Void, Sudden Demise, Moggcatcher. T1 Magus into T2 Chalice made my opponent scoop.

List?

[Morzas]

Maindeck

19 Lands
11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

8 Fast Mana
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

15 Hate
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

13 Kill
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Moggcatcher
3 Koth of the Hammer
2 Siege-Gang Commander

5 Other
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sudden Demise
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard

4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinisphere
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

-------------

The main difference between my list and other ones I've seen is that I run three pieces of equipment maindeck. I like them a lot because they make cards like Simian Spirit Guide and Magus of the Moon into legitimate threats. I had a player last night that had to FoW a hardcast Spirit Guide because I had a Jitte in play :smile:

I also maindeck Koth because I'm in a control-heavy area.

[Zupponn]

It's really not a horrible idea to maindeck the Koths in the utility goblin slots. Really depends on the expected meta.

[nodahero]

Well, it has been a long time since I have gotten to play legacy, basically 6 months sadly. Due to this pause in play the following list is my starting point for a Legacy event I am playing in today...

Lands
8 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
Quick Mana
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox
Creatures
1 Rakka Mar
1 Goblin Settler
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Moggcatcher
Disruption
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
Equipment
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Koth of the Hammer
1 Trinisphere
4 Phyrexian Revoker

I have absolutely no idea what the meta will look like at the event today so I scrolled through the forum and found my old list and my comments at that time and then modeled this version off of it. The sideboard is a bit hodgepodeged, however due to a lack of legacy lately I just wanted a more rounded board so I wasn't caught with my pants down. Any last second thoughts, concerns or comments are always welcome as is general overall feedback.

RESULTS
3-1 overall.
I lost to BG Nic Fit in round 4 and beat Foodchains then Grixis Delver and then Sneak and Show before finally losing. My loss was a real heartbreaker due to the turnout only being diehard Legacy players as there were PPTQs all over the area so our even only had 5 players and since I never got the bye my breakers were miserable unlike the other 4. GRRRRR

THOUGHTS
I think cutting Scrapper from the main is a solid option and also the Rakka Mar... possibly for 2 Phyrexian Revokers in the main to further the disruption plan. Overall, I think those two while decent, simply are not where we want to be game 1.

[Zupponn]

I'm not so sure about cutting Scrapper. He's always been solid in the main for me. There's usually a big target like a Jitte that you need to be able to handle game one. I run Settler in the side instead of the main because I only really want to see it in a few matchups. I just hate drawing Settler as he feels so underwhelming when sitting on the board without Kiki-Jiki.

[nodahero]

I have the exact same feeling with Scrapper, as you do Settler. I prefer Settler though, because she plays ball with the 3Sphere and Blood Moons, where as Scrapper can just be dead outside of a few specific cases.

I think it really boils down to the fact that if I had to top deck one randomly, Settler is basically never dead and Scrapper can be.

[LeoCop 90]

My honest opinion is that if we are playing the moggcatcher version, we choose it due to its flexibility over the raw power of other creatures (let's say "dragons"). If i am playing moggcatcher, i want to have at least one kiki-jiki, one scrapper and one settler in my list. Getting cute with too many situational effects, like stingscourger or sharpshooter main deck, is dangerous, but blowing up artifacts and lands is an effect that it's very often useful and i'm willing to sometimes draw a dead card in the matchup to gain some maindeck flexibility.
Otherwise i would just play thunderbreak regent, stormbreath dragon, rabblemasters and don't care about casting a 4 mana 2/2.

[danpo]

Another potential Dragon Stompy card in origins:

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/piaandkirannalaar.html

Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
(Chandra's parents, I guess.)

2RR for a 2/2 human artificer.

When ~ etb get two 1/1 colorless flying artifact Thopters.

2R, sack an artifact: ~ deals two damage to target creature or player.

...

Flyers to carry Jitte, option to throw the flyers at random annoying bears or people's faces, plus also when you draw dead Chrome Moxes you can fling those, too? At minimum I'd say it outclasses Beetleback Chief.

Yep.

[Zupponn]

At minimum I'd say it outclasses Beetleback Chief.
I love this sentence.

The card definitely has potential. I like it more than the Dragon that was spoiled so far.

[ChemicalBurns]

Hey everyone, new-ish Sourcer but long time lurker here, just thought I'd post up my current Dragon Stompy list.

Creatures: (22)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Qal Sisma Behemoth
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Rakka Mar
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon

Non-Creature Spells: (19)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Chrome Mox
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands: (19)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

Sideboard: (15)
3 Sudden Demise
2 Boil
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Manic Vandal
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tormod's Crypt

I've been playing Goblin Stompy for some time and have been quite happy with it, but was pretty excited when I saw Qal Sisma Behemoth released. although a bit mana-intensive, you can slam him on turn two (or one) and he kills incredibly quickly, and means that you don't have to overextend the rest of your hand. With this in mind, I basically took him and all the other red creatures that are incredibly powerful singular threats and shoved them in a deck. This version I feel is less all-in, especially compared to traditional Hellbent versions, and allows you to ride a single threat to victory until they can answer it, after which you just play another threat that is ready to spiral out of control. I've found the matchup against Miracles, in my limited testing, to be pretty good because with a Chalice on one all your threats demand a Terminus, or else the Miracles player will quickly fall behind.

Also, the new stuff from Origins looks very exciting. Avaricious Dragon looks strong in a traditional Hellbent shell, while the Nalaars might be good with some kind of Daretti/Great Furnace kind of package?

Nonetheless, thanks for your thoughts everyone. ^_^

[Redkid43]

Just a thought...

Could a hellbent version of Stompy be a thing with the new Dragon? Perhaps forgoing equipment and Flamespeaker for it? It would turn on Raiders and Pit Dragon right away and the deck can function while it's hellbent.

Something like

4 Magus
4 SSG
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Pit Dragon
4 Avarcious Dragon

4 Chalice
4 Mox
4 Sphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Punishing Fire

8 Mountain
8 Sol Lands
4 Grove

[Morzas]

Hey everyone, new-ish Sourcer but long time lurker here, just thought I'd post up my current Dragon Stompy list.

Creatures: (22)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Qal Sisma Behemoth
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Rakka Mar
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon

Non-Creature Spells: (19)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Chrome Mox
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands: (19)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

Sideboard: (15)
3 Sudden Demise
2 Boil
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Manic Vandal
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tormod's Crypt

I've been playing Goblin Stompy for some time and have been quite happy with it, but was pretty excited when I saw Qal Sisma Behemoth released. although a bit mana-intensive, you can slam him on turn two (or one) and he kills incredibly quickly, and means that you don't have to overextend the rest of your hand. With this in mind, I basically took him and all the other red creatures that are incredibly powerful singular threats and shoved them in a deck. This version I feel is less all-in, especially compared to traditional Hellbent versions, and allows you to ride a single threat to victory until they can answer it, after which you just play another threat that is ready to spiral out of control. I've found the matchup against Miracles, in my limited testing, to be pretty good because with a Chalice on one all your threats demand a Terminus, or else the Miracles player will quickly fall behind.

Also, the new stuff from Origins looks very exciting. Avaricious Dragon looks strong in a traditional Hellbent shell, while the Nalaars might be good with some kind of Daretti/Great Furnace kind of package?

Nonetheless, thanks for your thoughts everyone. ^_^

This list seems pretty interesting, I will try it out tonight.

[Ace/Homebrew]

This list seems pretty interesting, I will try it out tonight.
Interested in reading your report! List does look interesting ChemicalBurns. :wink:

Four Qal Sisma Behemoth sounds like one too many, but I haven't tested more than two.

Just picked up Goblin Settlers 3 and 4! I've always wanted to try a list with four. :cool:

[Morzas]

I ended up playing D&T tonight (3-0-1, $50 store credit), but I will run that list next week.

[Morzas]

I played ChemicalBurns' list at Green Lake Games and went 1-3, but a big reason for that is right before the tournament began, I gave another player my two Sulfur Elementals since he needed two copies. Of course I run into D&T and Maverick that night!

On the plus side, I finally got the sweet, sweet feeling of resolving Boil against Miracles. Haha. I'll try ChemicalBurns' list again at Card Kingdom tonight.

First thing I felt when playing last night was that the double-red on Flamespeaker and Rakka Mar were really restrictive compared to the amount of punch I get in those slots in my normal configuration. I also feel like one of the Chrome Mox ought to be a Lotus Petal. I also don't like all the 2-ofs in the sideboard -- you can get away with that in decks packed with cantrips/tutors, but in a deck like this you want consistent hate. I'll keep the list as it is for now but if I were to change it, I would up the Revokers to a 4-of.

Also, I definitely want to try a Hellbent build once Avaricious Dragon is legal. I dunno if it'll be good or not but it looks fun.

[ChemicalBurns]

Glad the list seems pretty reasonable to you Morzas, just wanted to address a few of your points.

I definitely think the list, like Goblin Stompy, feels incredibly soft to Death & Taxes (I play D&T myself, just like you, and have found the match against Dragon Stompy a cakewalk), as you're completely crushed by Umezawa's Jitte unless you get yours online before theirs. Sulfur Elemental is what I've been using to address this problem, but it doesn't answer Stoneforge which can often be the crux of the problem. Anarchy may be a consideration in this slot, in addition to bringing in the Demises. Nonetheless I think some kind of dedicated D&T hate is required, because it's a real uphill climb otherwise. You're probably correct in terms of the sideboard slots though - I can easily see shaving the Vandals for more Revokers since they fulfill a reasonably similar role, which is stop Jitte, and also have a lot of other utility, especially against Miracles.

In terms of the double red on creatures, I think its a reasonable consideration to change the Rakka Mar to something else (I'm not sure what, maybe can move Koth to the main and free up sideboard space), as long as it fulfills the criteria of being a threat that doesn't need help to spiral out of control. Flamespeaker though I have found incredibly valuable, and would not think of cutting him - being able to generate some form of card advantage while clocking the opponent is amazing, and I've found he usually finds more locks to ensure the opponent is completely disabled. Not to mention when he finds one of your equipment... Then the opponent is really dead.

How did you find Behemoth so far? Although four may seem too many, since you're generally just playing out one threat at a time I haven't found it to be much of an issue when I have a glut in my hand, since I'll only be playing the second one when the first one dies. They can get really awkward against Rishadan Port decks though, I'd highly recommend boarding them out there. ^_^

[nosfex]

Hello guys!
Longtime lurker, first time posting here.

This is my list for Dragon Stompy:
Main

Fast Mana
4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide

Planeswalkers
3x Koth of the Hammer
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker

Creatures
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Magus of the Moon
2x Inferno Titan
2x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Thundermaw Hellkite

Artifacts
1x Coercive Portal (looking for a 2nd)
4x Chalice of the Void

Enchantment
3x Blood Moon

Instant
2x Magma Jet
4x Seething Song

Lands
10x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors

Sideboard
3x Trinisphere
1x Staff of Nin
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Volcanic Fallout
2x Faerie Macabre
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Ensnaring Bridge

Match ups so far

vs D&T
Batterskull is a bit of a problem, however, you play the control game here. Most of their denial is useless against you.
vs BUG
T1 Moon drains them or auto wins. Rarely had a problem
vs Storm
Smash Vial, win. Side trinispheres for more hate.
vs Lands
Seismic assault can be a problem in G2 - G3. Always board hate, and keep an eye for their life from the loam
vs Miracles
Tough MU. That's the reason for the Staff in the board. Moon isn't useless here, as they rely a lot on fetches, and you can screw them there. If they can assemble the lock, it gets a bit more difficult. In my experience, really bad draws from your side can make this difficult, else, it's winable.
vs Merfolk
Moon can really nullify them, if they have a Cavern / Muta hand. Hard match up, relies a lot on getting agro fast, or a Titan.
Sneak & Show
Tough, reliant on locking them with moon + vials, or game 2-3, bridges + revokers
Reanimator
Iona wrecks you. Chalice + Trinisphere can destroy them, + graveyard hate

Well, that's all for now, please let me know what you guys think!

[Morzas]

Ran ChemicalBurns' list at Card Kingdom, went 2-2. Don't remember too many of the details.

Round 1 - GWb Maverick - Win

I'm against my friend, and we both know what the other is on.

G1: I lock him out with a Chalice on 1 followed by a Chalice on 2.
G2: Don't remember, but I lost.
G3: I don't remember much of this game aside from hearing "man, if you hadn't topdecked that Qal Sisma Behemoth", which made me laugh.

Round 2 - Elves - Loss

G1: I land a turn 1 Magus of the Moon and it's GG.
G2: I'm on the draw, so my opponent got a basic Forest out early and was able to eventually recover with Wirewood Symbiote + Elvish Visionary.
G3: I mull to 5, land an early Trinisphere and hope to draw a kill condition before they can start vomiting out Elves. No such luck.

I found myself really missing my Siege-Gang Commanders. I have fought Elves a few times before and every game I didn't win because of a lock piece was won because of the board control that card gives me.

Round 3 - UR Delver - Win

This is the kind of deck we're designed to beat. Game 3 was pretty humorous: they were locked out by a Blood Moon + a Chalice but were still able to play three Young Pyromancer. He swung in a couple times but when I landed a Prophetic Flamespeaker his aggro was shut down. Flamespeaker is a lot more powerful than I thought.

Round 4 - Jeskai Stoneblade - Loss

I basically never play around Daze or Spell Pierce and got punished for it here. I think I could have won this match with better play.

------------------

All in all, I think it's a pretty powerful list and I might try it again some time. If I were to play it again I would run 2 Sudden Demise in the main since I want some more board control and more Phyrexian Revoker in the board. I never used Tormod's Crypt so those are easy cuts, but Card Kingdom's meta is pretty developed; I rarely see any graveyard decks.

I also really wish there were a red Stoneforge Mystic, then Flamespeaker would be an absolute house.


How did you find Behemoth so far? Although four may seem too many, since you're generally just playing out one threat at a time I haven't found it to be much of an issue when I have a glut in my hand, since I'll only be playing the second one when the first one dies. They can get really awkward against Rishadan Port decks though, I'd highly recommend boarding them out there. ^_^

I didn't play Behemoth enough to really get a feel for it.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Weekly report.

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Stone Rain
4 Goblin Settler
4 Trinisphere

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Qal Sisma Behemoth
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Fire Imp
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Tormod's Crypt

R1 - ANT, 2-0
R2 - RUG Lands, 0-2
R3 - U/R Delver, 0-2
R4 - Grixis Delver, 2-1

I sideboarded incorrectly against Lands and used Ancient Tomb too aggressively in game 1. My fault. I deserved the losses. :rolleyes:
Need to work on the sideboard more!

[Ace/Homebrew]

Another weekly report. Twenty-six players.

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Stone Rain
4 Goblin Settler
4 Trinisphere

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Qal Sisma Behemoth
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Fire Imp
4 Pillage
1 Arc Lightning
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Sulfur Elemental

R1 - BURG Delver, 2-1. There's still 30 minutes left in the round when we finish.
R2 - Dark Punishing Maverick, 1-2. I get game 1 off 3 sequential Stone Rain. Games 2 and 3 Mother of Runes protects his mana dorks and he's able to power out more threats. Should have boarded in Sulfur Elemental. :rolleyes:
R3 - RUG Delver, 2-0. He mulls to six game 1 and four or five in game 2.
R4 - 12 Post, 2-1. I mull to five game 1 and don't play Magic. He mulls to four game 2 and doesn't play Magic. Game 3 I mull to 6 and Pillage his Expedition Map. Then proceed to play 3 Stone Rain a Settler, Phyrexian Revoker (naming Candelabra of Tawnos) and 3sphere before finally finding a Rabblemaster.

Top 8
R5 - OmniTell 2-1. He starts and chains Gitaxian Probes until I kill him with consecutive Rabblemasters. Game 2 he boards in Young Pyromancer and steals a win. Game 3 he mulls to six and a Blood Moon plus land destruction give me the win.


Picked up $65 in credit, getting 2 Thoughtseize and an Abrupt Decay.
I like Pillage in the sideboard over Ingot Chewer. I'm not sold on the three 1-of's. Qal Sisma Behemoth pulled his weight. I like 3 in the maindeck right now.

[Gheizen64]

Cryoclasm is probably just better than stone Rain in this format

[Veebs]

Just returned from the latest installment of the Philadelphia Legacy Series. This time was at Redcap's Corner. Twenty-Nine players made it out for the event, so the turn-out was equivalent to a really good weekly there... :rolleyes:

I brought Eight Moon Stompy.

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge

4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

4 Magma Jet
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Crystal Ball

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal

Sideboard
2 Chandra Nalaar
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Trinisphere
4 Tormod's Crypt



Hey all - I am working on various builds of moon/goblin/stompy and like the MO of "hide behind bridge - kill without attacking" (aka, the control / planeswalker build). Someone mentioned Pia and Kiran Nalaar from origins as an idea. What are your thoughts?

It's a mana intensive way to bring down your opponent (R2 per shock) and removal can hit him.. However, hiding behind a bridge you get the two 1/1 flyers. If you're facing no flying blockers, you can fly at him for 2 before unloading your draw for the turn. Also lets you "eat" many of the duplicate artifact draws that would otherwise be dead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Ace/Homebrew]

Someone mentioned Pia and Kiran Nalaar from origins as an idea.
I like them for exactly the reasons you mentioned. :smile:
I intend to pick up 3 shiny copies, and now I'm hesitant to sell off my Cavern of Souls...


Cryoclasm is probably just better than stone Rain in this format
I disagree here. Sure the format has a lot of Islands and Plains, but Forests are typically the basic land that I worry about seeing because Green Sun's Zenith is very good at breaking whatever lock I have going.
Besides that, part of the strategy is to keep the opponent locked under a Trinisphere. If the lands are Moon Mountains, or just otherwise not an Island or Plains, Cryoclasm sits in my hand as a dead card. Three damage isn't nothing, but I'd rather destroy any land than deal some incidental damage. :cool:

[Gheizen64]

I like them for exactly the reasons you mentioned. :smile:
I intend to pick up 3 shiny copies, and now I'm hesitant to sell off my Cavern of Souls...


I disagree here. Sure the format has a lot of Islands and Plains, but Forests are typically the basic land that I worry about seeing because Green Sun's Zenith is very good at breaking whatever lock I have going.
Besides that, part of the strategy is to keep the opponent locked under a Trinisphere. If the lands are Moon Mountains, or just otherwise not an Island or Plains, Cryoclasm sits in my hand as a dead card. Three damage isn't nothing, but I'd rather destroy any land than deal some incidental damage. :cool:

If you play 7 moons, sure. It may be interesting to play some Peak Eruption then :P

[PollePotDK]

@Ace/Homebrew: Fire Imps in sideboard - why and when? Wouldn't a sweeper be better like pyroclasm? Like the list though - to bad Goblin Settler is a damm expensive card :-(

/PollePotDK

[Ace/Homebrew]

@Ace/Homebrew: Fire Imps in sideboard - why and when? Wouldn't a sweeper be better like pyroclasm?
Pyroclasm kills all our creatures too... If Moon Man is keeping things from getting worse for us, I prefer to keep him alive. :smile:

FImp goes in against creature decks (D&T, U/R Delver, Maverick, Grixis). For mono-color or decks heavy in red, I take out Magus. Otherwise it's something like -1Trinisphere, -1 Settler, -1 Stone Rain, -1 Behemoth. If I would use a sweeper, it'd probably be Sudden Demise.

[Dr_D]

Ace/Homebrew do you go to Redcap's every wednesday? I just started going there and the place is great.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Ace/Homebrew do you go to Redcap's every wednesday? I just started going there and the place is great.
Typically every other week. But if I'm on a hot streak, I'll go every week. :wink:

Redcap's is a great store with a strong Legacy scene. I heard the store will be moving down the street in a few weeks, FYI.

[MGB]

Typically every other week. But if I'm on a hot streak, I'll go every week. :wink:

Redcap's is a great store with a strong Legacy scene. I heard the store will be moving down the street in a few weeks, FYI.

How is parking around that area? I live in the Reading, PA area and always wondered if going down to Redcap's was worth the drive. One of the big hang-ups I would have is if I have to park my car in a "bad" part of town and then leave at night. Is there safe parking around Redcap's?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'll have to let you know once I've seen the new location. Currently there is plenty of street parking. Well 'plenty' is probably reaching... Let's say adequate street parking. The parking gets harder to find as you approach 6:00 and the typical last-minute MtG player shows up. Most of the open spots are metered ($0.25 for 15 minutes :rolleyes:) but there is free street parking nearby once you know where to look. If you get there at 5:30 you won't have any trouble.

The 'badness' of the area is sort of relative... My wife wouldn't feel comfortable, but I've never had any issues or concerns. I do have to pass through a section I wouldn't want to break down in on the way there and back though.

Of course none of what I said will matter in a few weeks when the store relocates.

[Dr_D]

How is parking around that area? I live in the Reading, PA area and always wondered if going down to Redcap's was worth the drive. One of the big hang-ups I would have is if I have to park my car in a "bad" part of town and then leave at night. Is there safe parking around Redcap's?

There's residential streets a block over with plenty of spaces.

[Morzas]

I played Dragon Stompy at Card Kingdom, one of my matches was on stream. I'll link to the VOD when/if it's up later.

Total record for the night was 2-1-1. Beat Storm, beat Aluren (on stream, round 2 (http://www.twitch.tv/cardkingdom/b/677690166) (skip to the 01 : 13 : 30 mark if you want to see my match), lost to Stoneblade, ID'd with Maverick but won when we played for fun.

EDIT: I also picked up a playset of Avaricious Dragon, I plan on testing out the Hellbent build with them next week! Excited to bust out some Gathan Raiders.

[danpo]

Went 2-2 tonight with this build:

4 phyrexian revoker
4 magus of the moon
4 goblin rabblemaster
4 avaricious dragon
2 pia & kiran nalaar

3 umezawa's jitte
4 blood moon
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void

4 simian spirit guide
4 chrome mox
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
11 mountain

and a horrible mess of a sideboard that involved 3 tormod's crypt and a mix of flames of the firebranda and sudden demise.

I lost 0-2 to Omnishow. I knew he was Omnishow and mulled an okay but not great seven down to a six that had no land but did have Trinisphere, which is pretty good against him but the hand was unkeepable. The five-card hand was a five-card hand. Anyway I got out Moon effects and got Chalice FOW'd but in the end he has no problem casting Intuition/Show & Tell etc.

We played a couple more games after I signed the slip and I did not win a one. Where Trinisphere is a thing it just stalls him to the extent he has to spend an extra turn or two Wishing for Wipe Away.

My second match was against a G/W/R Collected Company/Melira concoction. In one game he got out a fast Knight of the Reliquary but hands involving Blood Moon were aces against him.

I then played against Mono-R Daretti Stax, which was annoying. I won the first game but he brought in a Duplicant and used it on an Avaricious Dragon I was in the process of riding to victory. Ratchet Bomb was also pretty good for him the time I got both Rabblemaster and Nalaars out. Punishing Fire is a problem too.

Last round I played again Oops All Spells. Trinisphere makes his cheap mana bad and in game two my opening seven had two Tormod's Crypts and my opponent decided he couldn't win.

-

Recap: Lost to Omnitell, beat G/W/B Collective Company, lost to Daretti Stax, beat Oops All Spells.

I feel tempted to cut the eleventh Mountain and a Jitte for two copies of Sword of Fire and Ice.

Thoughts?

Suggestions for the sideboard are welcome too.

EDIT: Worth mentioning that against Omnishow, if I get Avaricious Dragon out, which I think I want to so I hit more gas, I cannot play the game where I sit with Trinisphere in my hand and wait to Show & Tell it into play. Because I chuck my hand to the Dargon on my endstep. Yep.

[Wasteland]

I think you were a bit unlucky to hit a deck like red staxx... While of course omnishow is by far the worst tier1-deck matchup i still think you could beat it with playing 2-3 boils in the board which rly shine against omnishow after putting in a trinisphere... Of course you still will loose to a directly put Emrakul... -> I think we have to live with the fact, that this matchup is terrible...
For the deck, the list seems quite solid but i still think, thunderbreak regent is the choice to go and not avaricious dragon... 4mana 4/4 flying is exactly what you want, but without the hellbent-effect (in my opinion).
I'm testing following list, which i rly like much due to the fact, that it turns the 10% d&t-MU into a 80-90% mu with sulfur elementals, which are great vs miracles too...

//mana (27):
4x ancient tomb
4x city of traitors
11x mountain
4x chrome mox
4x simian spirit guide

//creature-base (19):
4x magus of the moon
3x goblin rabblemaster
3x phyrexian revoker
4x sulfur elemental
4x thunderbreak regent
1x pia and kiran nalaar

//other (14):
4x blood moon
2x umezawa's jitte
1x sword of fire and ice
4x chalice of the void
3x trinisphere

//sideboard:
4x tormod's crypt
4x thorn of amethyst
2x boil
2x shattering spree
3x sudden demise

=> Still unsure about the board... I would love to bring in there 2 duplicant or something other to put vs s&t but unsure, whether boil isn't just better cause more flexible (and being the total blowout for miracle together with moon...)
The maindeck i rly like due to the fact, that nearly all the stuff has a quite low mana-curve (for dragonstompy^^) and only the 4 dragons need to have 4 mana (or 5 to be daze-proofed). Not sure too about Pia Nalaar vs. Jaya Ballard, which is an excellent option to put in against s&t with a thorn or trinisphere online...)

Greetz from Germany
Marius Hausmann

[Morzas]

I went 1-3 this week, but one of the losses was to mulligans and the other was to play errors. I'm gonna keep testing Avaricious Dragon. It feels very strong so far. Not sure if I like going Hellbent with it though, might be better to just run it as a value creature with Rabblemasters and Koth. I like those two a lot more than Gathan Raiders and RPD.

I'll post my list when I have the time, currently on mobile.

[danpo]

Sulfur Elemental, Boil and Thorn of Amethyst are all helpful ideas, thank you! I was boarding Anarchy because there's always a guy with D&T but I imagine the Elemental is a better fit here. Shattering Spree might be strong in my board too but I'm tempted by Smash to Smithereens.

The thing I like about Avaricious Dragon is playing it after I've jammed my initial pile of dudes and lock-pieces and my opponent is frustrated but not yet dead. Avaricious Dragon takes big bites out of life totals and doesn't care about Bolt, Delver or Abrupt Decay and finds you additional lock pieces so even if it dies you're still further ahead. Apart from not being able to slow-roll Trinisphere I haven't hated the downside much so far.

Thunderbreak is tempting, but so too is Stormbreath Dargon...

[Lyle Hopkins]

I've been working on a control list for a while and I managed to go 3-1 tonight at my local game store.

Decklist:
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
15 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Koth of the Hammer
4 Mox Diamond
4 Trinisphere
1 Buried Ruin
4 Magma Jet
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Goblin Rabblemaster
SB: 1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
SB: 4 Bonfire of the Damned

Round 1: Merfolk 2-1 (1-0)
Round 2: B/G Dark Depths 2-1 (2-0)
Round 3: Death & Taxes 2-0 (3-0)
Round 4: Reanimator 1-2 (3-1)

Bonfire of the Damned has been pretty clunky for me and I'm thinking of replacing it with Sudden Demise. I've also been toying with the idea of playing Boil in the sideboard, but I'm not entirely sure what to cut yet. Feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Wasteland]

Hi there,
i played yesterday a local event in Ingolstadt with 4 rounds + top8 (16 players), piloting the list i posted 3 posts ago... Ended up to be 1. after swiss but lost unlucky in the 2.finals. Deck feals great, though i would cut the 1of SoFI (keeping the 2 awesome Jittes) and replace it with a 4. rabblemaster or a 2. Pia Nalaar, which both were rly great...

Round1: Death and taxes.
G1 he starts with plains vial. I have already the revoker in my hand but prefer to 1. play the chalice to be swords-proofed. T2 i bring in the revoker while he has mother and Thalia. I play the thunderbreak regent while he goes for stoneforge into Jitte. 3 turns later the dragon has put him on 8 and he has managed to get 4 Jitte-counters but can't use them against the dragon. When a second dragon enters the battle, he scoops.
G2 he has Thalia + mother + stoneforge and attacks greedy with all, which allowes me to clear the board with sudden demise. Unfortunaly for me he has an avenger + the searched Jitte and i draw nothing relevant, so i loose this.
G3 i start with chalice 1 into chalice 2 and he does not find a flickerwisp or another 3drop in time so 2 sulfur elementals go for the win.

Round 2: 4c delver.
G1 he mulls to 5 and has ponder go, while i play ancient tomb into chalice. He dazed, which i pay with ssg and he scoops already.
G1 he again starts with ponder, while i again go for chalice and again he dazes^^ - this time i can't pay for it so he goes for a delver the following turn. I slay a rabblemaster which resolves. His delver does not flip and i Play City + another rabblemaster which lets him scoop again.

Round 3: Alexander Beiersdorfer with 4c loam.
We draw for being both in the top8 but play nevertheless to test the matchup. G1 he goes for land chalice 0 to prevent me from a chrome mox start. It's good th have a ssg + city to play the moon nevertheless t1 and he Scoops cause he can't even go for a mox diamond anymore due to his own chalice.
G2 i don't have a fast moon but instead 2 thunderbreak regents which are too much for his lonely maze of ith and his knicht, which got slowed down by a tormod's crypt (i rly don't like that card but there is no other gravehate which synergized with chalice of the void) - and no, i don't want to play leylines in a deck which can't cast them :-)

Round 4: Benni Gachstetter with esper blade
G1 i have a chalice followed by moon which makes him scoop t5 or so.
G1 he has managed to get a basic island and a confidant into play when my magus enters the game. I have some more beaf 4 turns later but loose unfortunaly when he just hardcasts his batterskull.
G3 i have no moon but chalice on 1 + a fast Pia Nalaar which grips a Jitte and decides this game.


Quarterfinals: Florian Hess with miracles
G1 i have an early chalice + some random beaters which are enough
G2 i can't find something relevant in time and die to a mentor which beats me to death, while a blood moon + trinisphere got destroyed by a wear/tear - outch...
G3 i play quite patient with 2 mountains and a tomb in play while i beat several rounds with a sulfur elemental. He finds a terminus for it but eot the nxt elemental comes in and continues the beatz. 2 turns later he goes for a 3:1 mentor which can't produce tokens and game is over when the 3. elemental comes down, the mentor dies and my opponent the following turn.

Semifinals: again Alex Beiersdorfer with loam.
G1 i have the blowout hand with 1. round moon AND chalice for 0 which makes him scoop directly.
G2 we play quite a long game, several moon-effects are neutralized and finally he gets a Liliana into play but has nothing else in hand or on the battlefield. I don't manage to get something relevant for 6 turns and then just scoop to the Liliana and a knight of the reliquary, while having a jitte but no creature in play.
G3 i have again 1. round magus + chalice but this time he has fire for the magus and he stabilizes while i'm out of gas and loose some turns later - would the magus have been a blood moon, i would have won this :-)

So summed up: Great tournament, great deck, which is rly good against theese multicoloured dig-bla-through-bla-time-bla-decks. Only rly bad matchup seams to be omnishow. Of course a deck like dragonstompy will never be the most consistant deck and sometimes draw the wrong half of the deck, but since there rly have been printed good beat-sticks like rabblemaster and thunderbreak regent, i like it a lot. AND i didn't have to take quite a lot Mulligans, since the manacurve of the deck has become quite low (most of the stuff costs 2R) - and one has not to play crappy cards like rakdos pit dragon etc. anymore.

Greetz from Germany
Marius Hausmann

[danpo]

Played this again tonight, same list as above minus 1 Mountain and 1 Jitte for 2x Sword of Fire and Ice. That card’s good. Also put Sulfur Elemental and Thorn of Amethyst and Smash to Smithereens in the board.

1) Beat B-W Leyline/Helm control 2-1
2) Beat Elves 2-1
3) Lost 0-2 to MUD/Metalworker. Played three more games post-board (remove four Trinispheres and two Chalices, put in 3 Smash to Smithereens and three Sulfur Elemental, because those at least trade for Razor Golem and can also be flashed out while Tangle Wire’s trigger is on the stack) and ultimately ended up 2-3 against him.

4a) Guy I would've played the last round with wanted to leave early so I agreed to draw with him before pairings were even up. I’m nice like that.

4b) Then handed my deck to a friend while I pulled out 4c Delver with Deathrite Shaman and zero basics. We played three games, all pre-board, and 4c Delver won 2-1. Lightning Bolt is fine against Magus, but only Blood Moon can be Spell Pierced. Dragon Stompy did get screwed one game by Abrupt Decay on Chrome Mox and Wasteland on Ancient Tomb, deal with it. Avaricious Dragon is just a house.

I want this deck to be awesome but it feels super matchup-dependent and I’m not sure my Monday-night meta is the best prey. Sitting at the top table for round 3, I was a 4x Chalice deck paired against another 4x Chalice deck. To my left was the Red Stax/Daretti (read: 4x Chalice) player who beat me with this last time. To his left was a Merfolk player also mainboarding 4x Chalice.

That is 16 copies of Chalice among six players right there.

Anyway, thoughts?

[Lyle Hopkins]

...if you have all 3 of our lock pieces in your opening hand and could easily play any of them turn 1, I think the best order would be:

Trinisphere
Chalice
Moon

Assuming you don't know what your opponent is playing, does this sentiment still hold true?

[civet five]

Assuming you don't know what your opponent is playing, does this sentiment still hold true?

I still think this is true, but SSG+City of Traitors requires special consideration because its very all-in, and I'd probably risk Blood Moon in that case (definitely would jam it if I was on the play).

[ForlornEgoist]

Assuming you don't know what your opponent is playing, does this sentiment still hold true?

Much as I'm loathe to say, 'twould be situation which one has the most utility. Generally speaking I would say Blood Moon would be the ideal first choice (if we assume I know nothing about the opposing deck or the remaining cards in my hand). Blood Moon experiences severe diminishing returns as the game progresses since an opponent will steadily develop their board position and mana base. Chalice and/or 3sphere are essentially interchangeable in terms of what you might like to cast T2/3. But casting a T2/3 BMoon can give your opponents the time they require to stabilize their mana base and play around a Moon effect which, while annoying, ultimately won't stifle their ability to play. The meta as it stands is abound with decks that having mana bases that are ripe for moon aggression, so I would rather play to capitalize on this immediately rather than give them an opportunity to potentially make null and void the 5-8 Moon effects the average DS player runs (I haven't played DS in a while but when last I was playing I believe I was running 5 MD with an additional 1 in the SB).

Of course, certain other decks like, say, Infect or DnT would merit a T1 Chalice followed by 3sphere far more than a Moon effect.

Forlorn Egoist

[Octopusman]

Small report. Apologies in advance for it being bare bones.

LGS: 2-1-0 (played out id for fun)

List:
Main:
10 mountain
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
2 sword of war and peace
4 prophetic flamespeaker
1 goblin rabblemaster
1 destructive urge
4 stone rain
3 seething song
3 stormbreath dragon
4 magus of the moon
4 blood moon
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
4 chrome mox
4 simian spirit guide

Board:
4 bonfire of the damned
3 cursed totem
2 phyrexian revoker
2 anarchy
1 goblin rabblemaster
1 seething song
1 stormbreath dragon
1 shattering spree


Round 1 vs Storm combo - 2-0

Game 1 on the play:
I turn 1 magus, left holding 2 chalice of the void.
He probes and therapys for chalice.
I top deck trinisphere and play it. He scoops.

Game 2:
He duresses taking trinisphere.
I topdeck chalice and play it.
I beat with a magus and a spirit guide.
He tendrils for 6 to stay alive.
I equip sowp and swing for 12.


Round 2 vs Miracles - 2-1

Game 1 on the play:
T1 chalice.
T2 magus of the moon - gets forced.
T3 trinisphere.
I stonerain his only island and beat with another magus ftw.

Game 2:
He whupped my butt with a clique and a monastery mentor. Don't remember much.

Game 3:
T1 Stormbreath Dragon.
T2 Stormbreath Dragon - gets forced.
Play a magus.
I stop attacking with magus because he has a snapcaster on the board.
I get him low and he vensers the dragon.
Dragon gets countered when replayed.
Another Dragon gets countered.
Beats me up with a clique.
I'm dead next turn but I topdeck a bonfire ftw.
He can't clique it with miracle on the stack because karakas is a mountain.


Round 3 vs Elves - 2-1

Game 1 on the draw:
He natural orders before I know what happened.

Game 2:
I play out two magi, get a chalice on one, and beat him up with stormbreath.

Game 3:
I play a magus and a chalice on 1.
I play a prophetic flamespeaker.
I drop a cursed totem.
Topdeck a sowp and swing for ~16.


Thoughts:
Main:
Destructive urge will probably be replaced with another rabblemaster. I need an additional threat and for the games where urge turns it into an absolute blowout, the deck probably would get more wins getting that extra threat to close out the game when needed. Also, lol two for ones. Upside, no one sees it coming.

I've been using Stormbreath Dragon for a while now and I honestly can say that it is the best "big" threat I've ever had playing Dragon Stompy for many many years. Although, if I were to cut the songs, I wouldn't try it. As it stands, I've been going between 3 and 4 copies.

I've been wanting to play Stone Rain for a long time and I'm not sure it would have performed in other builds but it definitely was soul crushing to opponents with 1-2 basics. This version is very aggressive so taking out one or two land set them so far back they couldn't stabilize.

Prophetic Flamespeaker is insane. I've never been able to have access to this many cards in this deck until now. Getting more land drops is not to be understated. Of course, Sword of War and Peace on a Flamespeaker is game over. Once I start connecting with a Flamespeaker, I generally overwhelm them and take over the game with stone rains or seething out a stormbreath dragon.

Sword of War and Peace: I've been talking about this card in this thread for some time. Ignoring double strike, it's not uncommon to swing for 10 on a magus of the moon. I don't recall ever losing after connecting with a Flamespeaker. Protections are extremely relevant and since it comes down early, the triggers are for big damage. I wish I still ran three sometimes. I'm really surprised that no one else is championing this card in a deck that denies the opponent the ability to play cards while also protecting the threat against plow, white creatures, and burn.

Board:
My board always needs work. Elves has proven to be a tough matchup for me so the bonfires and the totems really give this deck an edge. You're always racing Natural Order. Incidentally, Bonfire is not bad against mentor. It's not fabulous with Flamespeaker, but Flamespeaker is worth it. Plus, lucksack wins.
I bring in the 4th dragon against control. Monstrosity off of extra songs is a thing. Closes out games fast and is hard to remove. Kills planeswalkers like a boss.
Anarchy is great vs what you'd expect. Sucks vs. miracles.
Revoker is alright for planeswalkers and top.
I bring in the other rabblemaster vs control. It sucks big time when facing down a Thalia. They're great but short on room. I can't justify taking out Flamespeakers or stormbreath dragons.

Hope this is useful to someone.

[Lyle Hopkins]

I went 3-1 again at my local game store with my Mono-Red Control list.

Decklist:
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
15 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Koth of the Hammer
4 Mox Diamond
4 Trinisphere
1 Buried Ruin
4 Ratchet Bomb
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Crystal Ball
SB: 1Koth of the Hammer
SB: 4 Goblin Rabblemaster
SB: 1 Magus of the Moon
SB: 4 Sudden Demise

Round 1: RUG Delver 0-2 (0-1)
Round 2: RUG Delver 2-0 (1-1)
Round 3: Storm 2-0 (2-1)
Round 4: Mono-Black Pox 2-0 (3-1)

I've made some changes to the deck since I last posted it. I cut Magma Jet and moved Ratchet Bomb to the maindeck. I've also moved a Magus of the Moon to the sideboard and added an additional Jaya Ballard, Task Mage. As always, feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Octopusman - Excellent points about Sword of War and Peace. I found the info useful. :smile:

Lyle Hopkins - Can you talk some on your use of Mox Diamond? Do you only use it because you run a control list or would you recommend them over Chrome Mox in a traditional list as well? How did you come up with using 23 lands? Is there some formula when running Diamond?
Have you considered using Pia and Kiran Nalaar? They seem like they play well with Ensnaring Bridge. :laugh:

[Lyle Hopkins]

Lyle Hopkins - Can you talk some on your use of Mox Diamond? Do you only use it because you run a control list or would you recommend them over Chrome Mox in a traditional list as well? How did you come up with using 23 lands? Is there some formula when running Diamond?
Have you considered using Pia and Kiran Nalaar? They seem like they play well with Ensnaring Bridge. :laugh:

Mox Diamond was recommended to me by a control aficionado friend of mine (user: DOLPHY). I think Chrome Mox is best for conventional aggro, creature based lists, but with my control oriented build, Mox Diamond feels like an improvement. I don't think Mox Diamond is necessarily where you want to be in a creature based list. I feel like those decks need a higher creature density to operate, and cutting creatures for lands might not be a great idea. That being said, I've only played the card in a control shell, so I'm not entirely sure. I'm actually running 24 lands with a single copy of Buried Ruin (it's usually just a mountain, but in some matchups where I board out the Moons, Buried Ruin can be helpful). From what I gather, 24 lands seems to be the minimum for a playset of Mox Diamond. One of the main reasons I made the switch to Mox Diamond was to facilitate more artifacts in the deck i.e. less things that can be imprinted on to Chrome Mox. Mox Diamond can also help smooth out some awkward City of Traitor hands and pitching lands instead of spells seems better in my list.

I haven't tested Pia and Kiran Nalaar, but my inclination would be that I rather play Jaya Ballard, Task Mage.

The one thing I am considering is swapping Goblin Rabblemaster for Sulfur Elemental. I'd like to improve the Death & Taxes matchup and the elemental seems strong against Monastery Mentor too. Anyone have much experience with Sulfur Elemental?

[Zupponn]

I always have run Anarchy over the Elemental in the sideboard of my lists. I like the ability to hit Enchantress hard as well as D&T.

[Saboo]

How much work is Thunderbreak Regent putting in for those running it?

Is 3 the sweet spot for Qal Sisma Behemoth?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Is 3 the sweet spot for Qal Sisma Behemoth?
In my testing, yes. But my testing has been limited.

[danpo]

Small report. Apologies in advance for it being bare bones.

Game 3:
T1 Stormbreath Dragon.
T2 Stormbreath Dragon - gets forced.



This is making me want to cut my Jittes, Nalaars and insurance lands and jam 4x Stormbreath and 4x Seething Song and party like it's 2009.

You have until Monday night to save me $5 on this concept so I can retreat to the banal horrors of aggro-control/pretending there might be game against Omnishow...

[Octopusman]

This is making me want to cut my Jittes, Nalaars and insurance lands and jam 4x Stormbreath and 4x Seething Song and party like it's 2009.

You have until Monday night to save me $5 on this concept so I can retreat to the banal horrors of aggro-control/pretending there might be game against Omnishow...

Get the Stormbreaths and Seething Songs. You'll be glad you did. I've gone back and forth running 3 or 4 of each.

Hoping to hear some success stories from other players. Stormbreath is going to be difficult to replace as the deck's "large" threat imo.

[Octopusman]

Get the Stormbreaths and Seething Songs. You'll be glad you did. I've gone back and forth running 3 or 4 of each.

Hoping to hear some success stories from other players. Stormbreath is going to be difficult to replace as the deck's "large" threat imo.

I'd also suggest picking up Flamespeakers while they're cheap. Card is so underrated I can't even believe how overlooked it is.

[Octopusman]

Friends and I are having a disagreement.

They say that game 1 I should t1 chalice or 1 on the play instead of t1 moon against unknown opponent.
Just curious as to the analysis. The more players with experience to chime in the better.

I say moon is the better play since it shuts off fetches and is more crippling if they kept a greedy hand/have few basics.
Argument is chalice all but guarantees they can't play something on their next turn.
However, they can fetch for a basic which makes the 8 moons much less scary.
I believe the odds that moon will wreck them happens more often than getting the chalice down a turn later has a drastic effect on the game long term.

Would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Friends and I are having a disagreement.

They say that game 1 I should t1 chalice or 1 on the play instead of t1 moon against unknown opponent.
Just curious as to the analysis. The more players with experience to chime in the better.

I say moon is the better play since it shuts off fetches and is more crippling if they kept a greedy hand/have few basics.
Argument is chalice all but guarantees they can't play something on their next turn.
However, they can fetch for a basic which makes the 8 moons much less scary.
I believe the odds that moon will wreck them happens more often than getting the chalice down a turn later has a drastic effect on the game long term.

Would really like to hear your thoughts on this.
You are correct. :smile:
CotV will almost always blank their first turn play, but a Moon can potentially lock them out of the game. Moonman isn't as guaranteed, so I can see the argument of laying down CotV@1 to turn off bolt/plow first. Likewise, there is an argument that CotV is the correct play on the draw. But on the play against an unknown opponent, Blood Moon is the correct play.

[danpo]

Tried this again at my local last night. Four rounds, 14 dudes, this list:

4 phyrexian revoker
4 magus of the moon
4 goblin rabblemaster
4 avaricious dragon
4 stormbreath dragon

4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere
3 blood moon

4 simian spirit guide
4 seething song
4 chrome mox
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
10 mountain

4 thorn of amethyst
3 smash to smithereens
3 sulfur elemental
2 tormod's crypt
2 sudden demise
1 trinisphere

You could argue this curve is steep, but in my mind it's the same as when we ran 4x Arc Slogger (Stormbreath) and 4x Rakdos Pit Dargon (Avaricious) and 4x Seething Song, which to be honest I'm not sure why that last card got cut. Anyway:

Round one against Reanimator:
G1 I win the roll and open with Seething Song into Blood Moon and Chalice on 1. He does not have FOW and scoops.

G2 he mulls and keeps a hand with T1 Duress. He sees a hand with Chalice, sol land, Chrome Mox, Rabblemaster and some other cards. He takes the Chalice. On my turn I topdeck Magus and slam sol land, imprint, moon you? He has FOW but is now down to two cards in hand. On his turn he plays Thoughtseize I think for Rabblemaster and then casts Reanimate on Rabblemaster, but I'm able to get an Avaricious Dragon out and eventually trade a Revoker for Rabbleman and bury him.

I feel dirty?

Round two against Omnishow:
G1 he just always has the FOW and/or Spell Pierce when he needs it. I would like to drop Trinisphere in off S&T but I never see it. He goes off the turn before I dead him.
G2 I board out Blood Moons and I guess Maguses (can't remember [[EDIT: It was Revokers. They're real pointless here.]]) for Thorns, the fourth Trinisphere and Tormod's Crypt bc Dig Through Time.
He FOWs my T1 Thorn. A couple turns later I have Avaricious Dragon and Crypt and he is at 10 life, two lands and four cards in the graveyard. I consider popping his yard but figure if he cantrips or plays/cracks a fetch I'll still have time to blow up his graveyard before he's eligible for delve. This line of thinking fails to account for City of Traitors, which he is then able to play, Dig Through Time and release a bunch of ants on the spaghetti I'm covered in.

Cry.

Round three against Death-n-Taxes.
This is around when I got too sad to take very good notes but basically I mulled to five G1 and went T1 Trinisphere / basically hellbent / staring contest, sit and stare awkwardly while wishing I could afford my own Revoker, eventually get out a Stormbreath but fail to race Batterskull?

G2 I mulled again and lost. We played two more and I went 0-4 against Death-n-Taxes. In one game Sulfur Elemental made two Stoneforge Mystics 2/1s I was unwilling to trade with. I smashed both pieces of equipment to smithereens but wound up losing to my own Ancient Tombs anyway.

-

Round four against Miracles variant feat. Back to Basics.
I gave up on notes at this point but I lost G1 and stole games 2 and 3 with resolved Chalice of the Void and mean clocks like Rabblemaster and Stormbreath Dragon.

2-2

This deck is neat and does fun things but having now gone ~2-2 with it on three different occasions and seeing no hope for ever beating the Omnishow man or the Death-n-Taxes guy I am breaking up with it.
Good luck have fun,
-Dan

[Octopusman]

Sorry to see you go. Three occasions is a small sample size but I can understand your frustration. I assume you went up to 4 trinisphere vs. omni? Avaricious Dragon seems pretty bad vs. that deck and to be honest I'm not a fan of that card in general. Hope you had fun with Stormbreath and got to see its potential. It races D&T very well but that voting card (forgot the name) can still rfg it.

Hit us up again if you try the deck in the future.

[Morzas]

Has anyone ever brewed with Crystal Vein? I've been thinking of trying it out but I want to hear what you all think first -- no sense in trying it if others have and had poor results, or if my idea is just plain bad.

[jmlima]

Has anyone ever brewed with Crystal Vein? I've been thinking of trying it out but I want to hear what you all think first -- no sense in trying it if others have and had poor results, or if my idea is just plain bad.

I've done, and it was variable, sometimes it worked as well as any of the 2 mana lands, sometimes I blew it up for the 2 mana and then regretted it. Overall, not consistent.

[Zupponn]

I'll still hold my 3Sphere, Chalice, Moon order.

3Sphere is by far the best T1 play as it becomes Time Walk for a turn or two if it sticks. This can let you set up that second lock piece or early threat with no fear of an answer and put you far ahead in the game. It's also the safest to run out first to draw out a counterspell since it is the least relevant later in the game.

Chalice gets second for very similar reasons as on the play it can be Time Walk for a turn again and you would rather have it countered over a moon effect.

Moon comes last because it is the most important and if they fetch for a single Island, who cares? That's probably the only basic they'll have all game and it means they still can't cast their Goyf.

Now, these would only be a fairly static order against an unknown opponent and with a perfect hand. We rarely get a perfect hand and mana matters to us quite a bit. Always plan out your manabase a turn or two early so you don't screw yourself. And against known opponents you're going to sometimes do match specific things like almost never casting 3Sphere against Omnitell because you just drop it off of their Show and Tell.

[Octopusman]

I'll still hold my 3Sphere, Chalice, Moon order.

3Sphere is by far the best T1 play as it becomes Time Walk for a turn or two if it sticks. This can let you set up that second lock piece or early threat with no fear of an answer and put you far ahead in the game. It's also the safest to run out first to draw out a counterspell since it is the least relevant later in the game.

Chalice gets second for very similar reasons as on the play it can be Time Walk for a turn again and you would rather have it countered over a moon effect.

Moon comes last because it is the most important and if they fetch for a single Island, who cares? That's probably the only basic they'll have all game and it means they still can't cast their Goyf.

Now, these would only be a fairly static order against an unknown opponent and with a perfect hand. We rarely get a perfect hand and mana matters to us quite a bit. Always plan out your manabase a turn or two early so you don't screw yourself. And against known opponents you're going to sometimes do match specific things like almost never casting 3Sphere against Omnitell because you just drop it off of their Show and Tell.

Appreciate this.

[Redkid43]

Just a quick idea. it's probably pretty bad but i kind of like it.


4 SSG
4 Moonman
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 thunderbreak regent
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox

4 Seething Song

1 Umezawa's Jite
1 Sword of...
1 Coercive Portal

8 Sol Lands
10 Mountain


I've seen some decks playing Coercive Portal and i kinda like it. It's card draw in a deck that needs it and it's also a wrath effect in case if anything goes horribly wrong. The sword spot is flex i think---either Fire and Ice or War and Peace.

[Octopusman]

Just a quick idea. it's probably pretty bad but i kind of like it.


4 SSG
4 Moonman
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 thunderbreak regent
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox

4 Seething Song

1 Umezawa's Jite
1 Sword of...
1 Coercive Portal

8 Sol Lands
10 Mountain


I've seen some decks playing Coercive Portal and i kinda like it. It's card draw in a deck that needs it and it's also a wrath effect in case if anything goes horribly wrong. The sword spot is flex i think---either Fire and Ice or War and Peace.

Flamespeaker is bonkers. However, he is already taking up the "difficult" to cast spot with his RR. Song helps but is also in demand from Stormbreath. Worried about the cost of these when all used together with Regent.
Regent is slow so that could be balanced with Stormbreath or Flamespreaker+Sword but Stormbreath isn't targeted that much and I'm not sure that's the kind of synergy that list is looking for. To be honest, I think I would run Eidolon of the Great Revel before Regent.
I'm very worried about how useful Portal would be since you're blowing up your own moxen and lock pieces. :O

Curious to know how it works out!

[LeoCop 90]

Men, Coercive portal in a 1vs1 game only has the option of drawing an extra card, assuming your opponent is not an idiot.
You get an extra card if homage has more votes or the vote is tied, so you just vote homage and then it doesn't matter at all what your opponent does.
Now assume you need to wipe the board : you vote carnage, then any opponent with a brain will vote homage and since the vote is tied you will just draw an extra card.
Basically, it is a bottled cloister without the "minor" downside that you could lose your hand.

[Redkid43]

So after some testing with my list I really felt like i needed to shy away from XRR casting cost things and move into a tighter build.

This is what I've arrived at post testing--I like the way this looks more

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Seething Song

4 Blood Moon

4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte

8 Sol Lands
10 Mountain

Jitte on a double strike creature is crazy insane damage-but I think I may cut that number down to 2 and bring in a Sword of X and Y. Not sure which one-FaI can cause some serious damage and draw a bunch of cards (plus Flamespeaker's ability when he connects) but WaP can straight kill them if their hand is greater than 4 cards. I'm leaning more towards FaI.

I have a few different sideboard options:

Idea 1
3 Uba Mask
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Manic Vandal
1 Viashino Heretic
2 Outpost Siege
2 Chaos Warp
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Idea 2
1 Trinisphere
2 Outpost Siege
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Icy Manipulator
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ashen Rider
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Sudden Demise

Idea 3
2 Outpost Siege
1 Stranglehold
2 Icy Manipulator
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Volcanic Fallout
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Shattering Spree

Thoughts?

[Delvis]

Have you considered Sword of Feast and Famine to pair with your Flamespeaker?

Untapping your lands after getting two of his triggers seems okay. Plus if the first card flipped is an instant or has flash, you can cast it before the second untap trigger. The protection abilities are really nice, too, helping you dodge Goyfs, Delve creatures and Abrupt Decays.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Untapping your lands after getting two of his triggers seems okay. Plus if the first card flipped is an instant or has flash, you can cast it before the second untap trigger.
I don't see any instants or cards with flash in his list or 3 potential sideboards. And discard isn't enormously relevant, although getting 2 cards is hard to ignore the impact of...

I'm personally starting to like SoWaP although I have not tried it yet. Octopusman's point of "our #1 goal is to lock opponents out of playing spells, so why not punish them for having cards in hand" really resonated with me.

[Redkid43]

Under that paradigm, I can get behind War and Peace--and considering it has the potential to possibly kill the opponent with Flamespeaker's double strike is appealing.

As for sideboards, i really like the first one. Although Viashino Heretic is a bit slow. I'm gonna try out Stranglehold in it's place.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I have a few different sideboard options:

Idea 1
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Idea 3
1 Stranglehold

Thoughts?
I have experience with some of those cards you may find useful.

Why 2 Emrakul? 1 is all you need against Painter's Servant combo and it isn't very good against OmniTell. I haven't seen Sneak and Show in a while, maybe it is big in your meta?

Strangehold is a wasted slot in my experience. I have tried it several times and want it to be good, but it isn't.


I also have a question:
Why so many Uba Mask? Is it just to turn off permission?

[Redkid43]

I have experience with some of those cards you may find useful.

Why 2 Emrakul? 1 is all you need against Painter's Servant combo and it isn't very good against OmniTell. I haven't seen Sneak and Show in a while, maybe it is big in your meta?

Strangehold is a wasted slot in my experience. I have tried it several times and want it to be good, but it isn't.


I also have a question:
Why so many Uba Mask? Is it just to turn off permission?

Theres a good amount of blue in my meta so Uba Mask is for them.

[Delvis]

I don't see any instants or cards with flash in his list or 3 potential sideboards. And discard isn't enormously relevant, although getting 2 cards is hard to ignore the impact of...

I'm personally starting to like SoWaP although I have not tried it yet. Octopusman's point of "our #1 goal is to lock opponents out of playing spells, so why not punish them for having cards in hand" really resonated with me.

I'm on board with Tolstoy. The basic plan of the deck is to force them to have dead cards in hand, and W&P capitalizes on that. OTOH, F&F's discard lets them discard the cards in their hand that they can't cast anyway.

The instants comment was more offhand hypothetical than actual plan. If there were instants, F&F might be better, but even so I think W&P fits in too well with the deck's gameplan. Of course I'm just a random outsider.

Can we call it Tolstoy instead of SoWaP or W&P, though? I would be so happy.

[Octopusman]

Haha. Tolstoy. I can get behind that. I'll start spreading that around my lgs whenever I kill them the same turn it's played.



RedKid, your last main deck looks very similar, if not identical to a build I tried. I think you'll be happy with it. I dropped Rabblemasters for maindeck land d, but Rabblemaster can get out of hand if left unchecked for just a turn... multiplicatively so if you drop a 2nd.

Very, very excited to hear about your results/experiences with Flamespeaker and Stormbreath. Jitte has the benefit of costing 1 less, which is actually a really big deal. Though, the removal activations are less important since you're usually just killing them as soon as possible. It can't hit important stuff like True-Name, but it does kill Thalia. The appeal of activating the +2/+2 after a first strike and before normal combat damage is great since you're now able to clear large threats like Goyf. I'd say if you're gaining life, you're poorly positioned. If you have the Sword of War and Peace, I'd really suggest trying it. But, why not try both? I could see Jitte being a potential better choice in a list focusing on Rabblemaster. Since it's not unreasonable to cast and equip a Jitte the turn after landing Rabblemaster.

Viashino Heretic does seem very slow. I see you already have Shattering Spree in another sideboard. It's hard to beat the value of spree.

Chaos Warp is bad. Emmy doesn't do much when they drop Omniscience and extra turn on their free Emmy. There's a enough of omnishow in my meta.
Have you tried Ensnaring Bridge?

Gotta run,

[Blastoderm]

Tried this again at my local last night. Four rounds, 14 dudes, this list:

4 phyrexian revoker
4 magus of the moon
4 goblin rabblemaster
4 avaricious dragon
4 stormbreath dragon

4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere
3 blood moon

4 simian spirit guide
4 seething song
4 chrome mox
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
10 mountain

4 thorn of amethyst
3 smash to smithereens
3 sulfur elemental
2 tormod's crypt
2 sudden demise
1 trinisphere

You could argue this curve is steep, but in my mind it's the same as when we ran 4x Arc Slogger (Stormbreath) and 4x Rakdos Pit Dargon (Avaricious) and 4x Seething Song, which to be honest I'm not sure why that last card got cut. Anyway:

Round one against Reanimator:
G1 I win the roll and open with Seething Song into Blood Moon and Chalice on 1. He does not have FOW and scoops.

G2 he mulls and keeps a hand with T1 Duress. He sees a hand with Chalice, sol land, Chrome Mox, Rabblemaster and some other cards. He takes the Chalice. On my turn I topdeck Magus and slam sol land, imprint, moon you? He has FOW but is now down to two cards in hand. On his turn he plays Thoughtseize I think for Rabblemaster and then casts Reanimate on Rabblemaster, but I'm able to get an Avaricious Dragon out and eventually trade a Revoker for Rabbleman and bury him.

I feel dirty?

Round two against Omnishow:
G1 he just always has the FOW and/or Spell Pierce when he needs it. I would like to drop Trinisphere in off S&T but I never see it. He goes off the turn before I dead him.
G2 I board out Blood Moons and I guess Maguses (can't remember [[EDIT: It was Revokers. They're real pointless here.]]) for Thorns, the fourth Trinisphere and Tormod's Crypt bc Dig Through Time.
He FOWs my T1 Thorn. A couple turns later I have Avaricious Dragon and Crypt and he is at 10 life, two lands and four cards in the graveyard. I consider popping his yard but figure if he cantrips or plays/cracks a fetch I'll still have time to blow up his graveyard before he's eligible for delve. This line of thinking fails to account for City of Traitors, which he is then able to play, Dig Through Time and release a bunch of ants on the spaghetti I'm covered in.

Cry.

Round three against Death-n-Taxes.
This is around when I got too sad to take very good notes but basically I mulled to five G1 and went T1 Trinisphere / basically hellbent / staring contest, sit and stare awkwardly while wishing I could afford my own Revoker, eventually get out a Stormbreath but fail to race Batterskull?

G2 I mulled again and lost. We played two more and I went 0-4 against Death-n-Taxes. In one game Sulfur Elemental made two Stoneforge Mystics 2/1s I was unwilling to trade with. I smashed both pieces of equipment to smithereens but wound up losing to my own Ancient Tombs anyway.

-

Round four against Miracles variant feat. Back to Basics.
I gave up on notes at this point but I lost G1 and stole games 2 and 3 with resolved Chalice of the Void and mean clocks like Rabblemaster and Stormbreath Dragon.

2-2

This deck is neat and does fun things but having now gone ~2-2 with it on three different occasions and seeing no hope for ever beating the Omnishow man or the Death-n-Taxes guy I am breaking up with it.
Good luck have fun,
-Dan

Which is why dragons.dec is bad. Losing the race to a batterskull should be expected when you play bad cards. I find D&T to be a good matchup. Sneak and Show also used to be good but it's slightly worse due to people switching to Omnishow.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Does this appeal to anyone?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/479/635775614184870436.png

I have to give WotC credit for giving us a :2::r::r: flyer in each of the last few sets.
Haste is nice but Swords to Plowshares and Terminus make the Landfall ability underwhelming.

I'm thinking it's not good enough at 3/3 since it has to attack each turn...
but I like the sound of Phoenix Stompy. :tongue:

[potatodavid]

Does this appeal to anyone?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/479/635775614184870436.png

I have to give WotC credit for giving us a :2::r::r: flyer in each of the last few sets.
Haste is nice but Swords to Plowshares and Terminus make the Landfall ability underwhelming.

I'm thinking it's not good enough at 3/3 since it has to attack each turn...
but I like the sound of Phoenix Stompy. :tongue:

Would rather just play Stormbreath

[Octopusman]

Would rather just play Stormbreath

Going to have to agree here. Which is not exactly fun to just throw out there because there is a CMC difference.
I like the haste, but it's 3 and even then it's extremely easily removed and I don't want to be paying that much mana to get another 3/3.

Always looking for new toys each spoiler season but goodies are few and far between, especially in the 2R cost. Innistrad was good, though.

[Zupponn]

The phoenix is bad. I'm not sure if it will even see play in standard. The body is too small for the cost and the landfall ability costs way too much mana. I mean seriously, 6 mana? Plus a landfall? That thing is never coming back fast enough nor reliably enough to be relevent.

[Juice11]

Here's the list I have been testing out. I have seen some really good things so far, but there are still a few spots that I'm not 100% sold on yet. No Dragons, but this was the only place I could find to post a list. I would love to hear some opinions. Has anybody else tried Hangarback yet?

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Magma Jet
2 Urza's Rage

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain

I don't know if the 4th Trinisphere is needed. I also am not sure about the eidolons or the urza's rage. I do like both of them so far, but I am wondering if anything else would be better.

Cards I am considering are Rabblemaster, Phyrexian Revoker, Koth of the Hammer, and Bonfire of the Damned.

As far as sideboard, I do like either Eidolon or Sphere of Resistance as added combo hate. I also like Sulfur Elemental, Tormod's Crypt, Sudden Demise, a single Emrakul, Shattering Spree, Boil,

[Redkid43]

Hangarback seems really good to blank liliana

[Blastoderm]

Here's the list I have been testing out. I have seen some really good things so far, but there are still a few spots that I'm not 100% sold on yet. No Dragons, but this was the only place I could find to post a list. I would love to hear some opinions. Has anybody else tried Hangarback yet?

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Magma Jet
2 Urza's Rage

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain

I don't know if the 4th Trinisphere is needed. I also am not sure about the eidolons or the urza's rage. I do like both of them so far, but I am wondering if anything else would be better.

Cards I am considering are Rabblemaster, Phyrexian Revoker, Koth of the Hammer, and Bonfire of the Damned.

As far as sideboard, I do like either Eidolon or Sphere of Resistance as added combo hate. I also like Sulfur Elemental, Tormod's Crypt, Sudden Demise, a single Emrakul, Shattering Spree, Boil,

I'm a huge fan of Trinisphere. It's a must counter. It serves not only as protecting your own spells vs cheap disruption but it prevents them from playing spells as well. I always play 4.

[nodahero]

I think Hangarback is good, but Rablemaster does a decent impression and can apply more pressure in a short time which is ideal given the lock pieces we generally play.

As for the 4th trinisphere, the faster you close out the game, the less of a liability the 4th one is. In a slower variant where you are aiming to use Hangarback I would avoid it as the dead draw will bite you a lot more than in faster variants.

[Redkid43]

I think decks playing Pia and Kiran Nalaar, AKA Beetleback Chief 2.0, would want to at least consider Hangarback.

[Koby]

Feels so good to Moon people on Turn 1. Sometimes, even on Turn 2 then Magma Jet their 1 drop. :cool:

[Octopusman]

Here's the list I have been testing out. I have seen some really good things so far, but there are still a few spots that I'm not 100% sold on yet. No Dragons, but this was the only place I could find to post a list. I would love to hear some opinions. Has anybody else tried Hangarback yet?

4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Magma Jet
2 Urza's Rage

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain

I don't know if the 4th Trinisphere is needed. I also am not sure about the eidolons or the urza's rage. I do like both of them so far, but I am wondering if anything else would be better.

Cards I am considering are Rabblemaster, Phyrexian Revoker, Koth of the Hammer, and Bonfire of the Damned.

As far as sideboard, I do like either Eidolon or Sphere of Resistance as added combo hate. I also like Sulfur Elemental, Tormod's Crypt, Sudden Demise, a single Emrakul, Shattering Spree, Boil,

I've been too chicken to test hangarback. Glad you seem to like it.
Can you speak to its effectiveness versus stuff like Lilliana as postulated?

I really like bonfire a lot. Never tried Urza's rage but it seems okay. Against permission, what are you trying to bolt? Against agro, would prefer a sweeper like Firespout, Bonfire, even pyroclasm before urza's rage, I think. Maybe it's better in your burn-centric build.

If you use revokers, I'd keep them in the side. If you can't get golems to stick, your list looks very toothless in the threat department and I'm not convinced there is enough burn or eidolon triggers to pull out a win without doing some beating. How big are your hangarbacks? 4 mana for a 2/2 or 6 for a 3/3 seems lackluster. Is the real value in the post dying flying beats? How often does it die versus exiled?

Thank you for your list! Looks fun!


If you've got 8ish moons, 8 sol lands, 4-12 other lock pieces, this is the right thread regardless of there being dragons in the list or not unless you're running painter's servant/grindstone. The name is basically the archetype not necessarily related to the creatures at this point. Werewolf and Goblin variants are some pages back.

[Clark Kant]

I really like the idea of playing Endless One in Dragon Stompy. About a third of the games I play, I seem to get mana flooded with the deck and it would be amazing to be able to sink all that mana into a 9/9. And it could still be played as a 4/4 or 6/6 in other games where the deck isn't mana flooded.

[Juice11]

I really like the idea of playing Endless One in Dragon Stompy. About a third of the games I play, I seem to get mana flooded with the deck and it would be amazing to be able to sink all that mana into a 9/9. And it could still be played as a 4/4 or 6/6 in other games where the deck isn't mana flooded.


It's just a 9/9 though. No evasion, no extra abilities, it seems just ok to me.

[Redkid43]

Update to build :cool:

4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Rabbles
4 Thunderbreak Regent

4 Seething Song

4 Blood Moon

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jite
1 Sword of War and Peace

8 Sol Lands
10 Mountains

Sideboard
2 Anarchy
1 Emrakul
2 Manic Vandal
2 Outpost Siege
2 Sudden Demise
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Uba Mask

I saw a list on a deck aggregator website (MTG Goldfish) that was playing Flamespeaker in a deck with the old tech of Raiders and RPD. While I certainly like that build too, and the player was also on Punishing Fire+Grove too, I feel like Raiders and RPD are dated tech. He was also playing REB and Pyroblast in the side and that made me cringe. I replaced them with Rabbles and Thunderbreak Regent. I'm testing Regent but he seems like a better upgrade to RPD--I was playing Stormbreath before and even with Seething Songs, five mana seemed a bit of a stretch for me.

Or it could have just been me--I'm super out of practice with Dragon Stompy so I have to practice it more and more again. Ugh the deck is so unforgiving! But i digress.

Sideboard for me needs so much work. Uba Mask has been good, but not great. I will probably keep 2, and cut the 3rd. I really want to play Pyrokinesis.

Also, nothing from BFZ has really piqued my attention for this deck. Ugh.

[Octopusman]

Update to build :cool:

4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Rabbles
4 Thunderbreak Regent

4 Seething Song

4 Blood Moon

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jite
1 Sword of War and Peace

8 Sol Lands
10 Mountains

Sideboard
2 Anarchy
1 Emrakul
2 Manic Vandal
2 Outpost Siege
2 Sudden Demise
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Uba Mask

I saw a list on a deck aggregator website (MTG Goldfish) that was playing Flamespeaker in a deck with the old tech of Raiders and RPD. While I certainly like that build too, and the player was also on Punishing Fire+Grove too, I feel like Raiders and RPD are dated tech. He was also playing REB and Pyroblast in the side and that made me cringe. I replaced them with Rabbles and Thunderbreak Regent. I'm testing Regent but he seems like a better upgrade to RPD--I was playing Stormbreath before and even with Seething Songs, five mana seemed a bit of a stretch for me.

Or it could have just been me--I'm super out of practice with Dragon Stompy so I have to practice it more and more again. Ugh the deck is so unforgiving! But i digress.

Sideboard for me needs so much work. Uba Mask has been good, but not great. I will probably keep 2, and cut the 3rd. I really want to play Pyrokinesis.

Also, nothing from BFZ has really piqued my attention for this deck. Ugh.

I've very interested to hear about specific experiences with Uba Mask.

Also, I put three Pyroblast in my board for tonight's weekly. I'm finally going to bite the bullet and take out the chalices to have a chance at countering some important spells against my horrible match ups (omni, miracles). This debate rages on so I guess I just have to see how it works out.


How has your experiences with Flamespeaker and Sword of War and Peace going? How does it favor versus Jitte?

You don't prefer Stormbreath over Regent? Curious to hear reasons since you have the songs for it. Thanks for keeping us updated.
I'll try to put up a report for tonight's event with my updated list. Still messing around with sideboard as always. I need some fresh tech for omni & miracles (thorn?).

[potatodavid]

Is the moggcatcher version of this deck viable any longer? Or is it just dead?

[Blastoderm]

Is the moggcatcher version of this deck viable any longer? Or is it just dead?

It's more viable than Dragon.dec. Unless you like losing to goyf, batterskull and planeswalkers.

[Redkid43]

The songs help do degenerate things like turn 1 Blood Moon and Chalice at 1. I feel like that is more pressuring than Stormbreath.

Without Chalice at 1, a Swords Regent causes a 7 point swing in our favor (gain 4, they loose 3).

Again, my distaste for Stormbreath simply comes from inexperience. I need to get the deck more under my fingers before I start making my own misenformed choices. Ack.

Tolstoy with Flamespeaker is great. It comes up rarely, but it's wild when it works. You can basically 1 shot them which is right in vein with what the deck wants to do. The problem is Abrupt Decay--let's test Feast and Famine I guess?

Uba Mask is good, not great. Comes in against blue decks with brainstorm, but it's stellar against Miracles. They can't hide stuff with Top well or do fancy tricks like Terminus mid combat off of a Top draw. That happened one game and boy oh boy did it make the match up a little better. Rabbles is already good against them and messing their draws and top of deck helped way more.

It FEELS like Chains, but 4 mana is a lot and you need to invest a turn into it.

[potatodavid]

It's more viable than Dragon.dec. Unless you like losing to goyf, batterskull and planeswalkers.

Yeah i don't have too many of those in my meta. Lots of lands, lots of combo. I figure if i can drop a turn 1 moon/chalice/3ball i should be okay.

[MGB]

It's more viable than Dragon.dec. Unless you like losing to goyf, batterskull and planeswalkers.

Moggcatcher Stompy loses to Goyfs and Batterskulls?

[Admiral_Arzar]

I feel like the issues people have described with both Omnitell and Miracles are solvable by just playing a bunch of Boils and/or Boiling Seas in the sideboard. I haven't played this deck in a while (but am looking to get back into it), has anybody tested that solution?

[Blastoderm]

Moggcatcher Stompy loses to Goyfs and Batterskulls?

It doesn't... dragons.dec does.

Rakka mar takes care of all those things as well.



I feel like the issues people have described with both Omnitell and Miracles are solvable by just playing a bunch of Boils and/or Boiling Seas in the sideboard. I haven't played this deck in a while (but am looking to get back into it), has anybody tested that solution?

I haven't played vs Omnitell yet but it's probably awful since ensnaring bridge and stingscourger don't do anything anymore. Boil can help I suppose but I'd rather play Ashen Rider (even that doesn't guarantee a win). However, Boil does apply in other matchups like Miracles and Grixis Control.

I never found that I needed that much help in the Miracles matchup, especially if you play Koth. Another gem vs miracles is Goblin Assault. Stormbreath Dragon seems fine in the Miracles matchup but horrible vs everything else, and not much better than SGC.

[jake556]

It's more viable than Dragon.dec. Unless you like losing to goyf, batterskull and planeswalkers.

Stingscourger/ Tuk-Tuk Scrapper/ Murderous Redcap/ Kiki Jiki, would like to say hi.:tongue:

[potatodavid]

I have all the cards for the Moggcatcher variation of this deck. Considering slapping it together just to Bloodmoon everyone in my meta out. And slowly kill them with with Goblin Settlers. Just wasn't sure if it was a favorable deck anymore. I assume it's not because I have not seen that variation in a long time.

[Blastoderm]

Stingscourger/ Tuk-Tuk Scrapper/ Murderous Redcap/ Kiki Jiki, would like to say hi.:tongue:

Yup perhaps I wrote it wrong... I'm all in favor of moggcatcher. I've CRUSHED stuff like clique equipped with batterskull + jitte. Stormbreath would shed tears.

[Blastoderm]

I have all the cards for the Moggcatcher variation of this deck. Considering slapping it together just to Bloodmoon everyone in my meta out. And slowly kill them with with Goblin Settlers. Just wasn't sure if it was a favorable deck anymore. I assume it's not because I have not seen that variation in a long time.

It is but don't play random targets like Settler. Maindeck I only play 3x SGC and 1x TukTuk.

[potatodavid]

It is but don't play random targets like Settler. Maindeck I only play 3x SGC and 1x TukTuk.

Are you playing Rabblemaster then?

[nodahero]

Rabblemaster is a HUGE boon to the goblin variation--- personally I think it is the best reason to play that version.

[Blastoderm]

Are you playing Rabblemaster then?

No. My original list (first ever goblin stompy list) from 2013 for reference:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=734754&viewfull=1#post734754

I usually play something similar to this. Currently I don't play Koth main and 19 lands instead of 20. +4 Sudden Shock due to my local meta being infested with the typical Delver mouthbreathers.

I haven't tested Rabblemaster yet so I don't really have an opinion. When I'm choosing creatures to play, I always decide based on the following questions:

Does it beat/race Tarmogoyf? Can I hold down two Tarmogoyfs?
Does it beat/race a resolved and activated stoneforge? (Basically Batterskull) None of the dragon cards can race a Batterskull.
Is it good vs Liliana and Jace? If I have an empty board can I topdeck creatures to get passed Jace bounce and Lili sacrifice?
If he topdecks removal like bolt after 1-2 turns am I still in the game?

Rakka Mar is absolutely insane vs everything because you make 3/1s every turn (they dont die EOT ) which satisfies all of the above conditions. It also has haste. Same for SGC because he makes tokens that can chump and shoot stuff (I hardcast them very often). Hound of Griselbrand is a bit weaker but he's great in combat vs aggro decks as well as vs Liliana / Lightning Bolt.

Rabblemaster seems good vs Liliana/Jace but bad vs Tarmogoyf/Deathrite Shaman/Batterskull/Young Pyro. To be honest, he's probably better in the SB as a quick clock vs combo decks and Miracles. If you do decide to play him main I highly suggest Sudden Shock to clear the way.

[potatodavid]

No. My original list (first ever goblin stompy list) ,... my local meta being infested with the typical Delver mouthbreathers.

I wish i my meta was full of delver.

[Blastoderm]

I wish i my meta was full of delver.

It's incredibly easy with Sudden Shocks lol. What does your meta look like?

[potatodavid]

It's incredibly easy with Sudden Shocks lol. What does your meta look like?

C-C-C-C-Combo and lands

[Blastoderm]

C-C-C-C-Combo and lands

Lands should be a bye no?

Vs Combo you can have a SB of:

Phyrexian Revoker (vs ANT)
Tormod's Crypt
Confusion in the Ranks
Boil
Stingscourger (vs Show and Tell as a 1-of target)

[Octopusman]

I feel like the issues people have described with both Omnitell and Miracles are solvable by just playing a bunch of Boils and/or Boiling Seas in the sideboard. I haven't played this deck in a while (but am looking to get back into it), has anybody tested that solution?

It's been a long time since I used Boil. Perhaps it's time to try again. I never found it to be particularly devastating but I'll let you know in a few weeks.

Kind regards,

[Blastoderm]

It's been a long time since I used Boil. Perhaps it's time to try again. I never found it to be particularly devastating but I'll let you know in a few weeks.

Kind regards,

Vs Miracles I found Koth and Goblin Assault quite effective. I think I had a couple of Boils too. Omnitell I expect to be difficult. The days of sneak/show have passed where you can just drop Ensnaring Bridge or Moggcatcher--> fetch stingscourger. Maybe Ashen Rider or confusion in the ranks?

[warfordium]

Feels so good to Moon people on Turn 1. Sometimes, even on Turn 2 then Magma Jet their 1 drop. :cool:

Amen. 3-0 then double-drew in the GPT i played yesterday with Koby's list. Owned 4c Delver in T8 then variance caught up with me—mulled to 5 G1 then 4 G2 on the play against Burn in T4. Had only mulled once before that in the 3 matches I played. 3-ball is an insane card. Goblin Rabblemaster is also a great clock. I'm not so into the Thunderbreak Regent but i warmed up to Chandra in the end. I went to 4 Jet since I was short the 4th Magus on the day ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It was a sweet metagame deck.

[Octopusman]

Not going to give a full report, just some feedback regarding Tuesday's weekly.

Ran this:

main:
city of traitors 4
ancient tomb 4
chrome mox 4
simian spirit guide 4
mountain 10
blood moon 4
magus of the moon 4
stormbreath dragon 3
seething song 3
goblin rabblemaster 2
Trinisphere 4
Chalice of the void 4
sword of war and peace 2
Prophetic Flamespeaker 4
Stone Rain 4

side:
Cursed Totem 2
Bonfire of the Damned 2
Anarchy 2
Shattering Spree 2
Phyrexian Revoker 3
Pyroblast 4

Went 2-1

Round 1 vs. Twin
1-2

I mulled down to 4 G1.

G2 just beat him up with magi and flamespeakers.

G3 I conceded when I saw he had 4 mana open after resolving a pestermite and found out later he didn't have twin. Lesson learned.


Round 2 vs. Nic Fit with Siege Rhino
2-1

Forgot most of this but won by doing 16 with equipped flamespeaker and another game with equipped stormbreath

Round 3 vs. Maverick
2-1

He mulls to 4 or 5 G1 but keeps drawing land and plays 3 pridemages and beats me down with 5/4 Thalia.

G2 & G3 I kill him with Flamespeaker and then Stormbreath dragon.


Stone Rain still a boss. Flamespeaker and Stormbreath still winning games. Never saw a Rabblemaster. No plans to change the main right now.

[Octopusman]

Should we play Black Vise? Yay or nay?

[rlesko]

Should we play Black Vise? Yay or nay?

Probably not because it costs 1...right?

[potatodavid]

Kind of a prison lock win card. We have elements of that but we're more of an attrition based aggro deck. doesn't fit our mold.

[Morzas]

Pretty interesting marriage of Goblins (4x Matron) and Stompy going on in this list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=92452).

[Ace/Homebrew]

Pretty interesting marriage of Goblins (4x Matron) and Stompy going on in this list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=92452).

For ease of reference:


Goblin Stompy by Hunter Briggs
7th Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 10/4/2015

Creatures (24)
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
1 Murderous Redcap
3 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Krenko, Mob Boss

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (21)
9 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Sandstone Needle


Spells (14)
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
1 Umezawa's Jitte


Sideboard
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Boil
4 Red Elemental Blast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Shatterstorm


Sandstone Needle seems like an interesting card worth some discussion. I've seen it in Mono-:r: Sneak Attack lists, but never in Stompy. It is replacing City of Traitors in this list.

Worth noting:
only 1 Magus of the Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
only 3 artifact fast mana (Chrome Mox)
28 mana sources, 21 of which are lands
Not sure if Matron is Moggcatchers 5-8 or if Moggcatcher is Matron 5-8. :tongue:

Congrats Hunter!

[rlesko]

I have a question about REB in the sideboard. Obviously this conflicts with Chalice on 1. Is the idea that you take the Chalices out for REB or you use them in conjunction with Chalice to be able to stop their spells entirely (you now gain stack interaction)?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I have a question about REB in the sideboard. Obviously this conflicts with Chalice on 1. Is the idea that you take the Chalices out for REB or you use them in conjunction with Chalice to be able to stop their spells entirely (you now gain stack interaction)?
I have the same question for Hunter if he reads the Source...

Also, why 1 Boil and 1 Boiling Seas? (as opposed to 2 Boil)
How often is Matron your first play? How exactly are you using Matron in this deck (proactively? reactively?)

[potatodavid]

I have the same question for Hunter if he reads the Source...

Also, why 1 Boil and 1 Boiling Seas? (as opposed to 2 Boil)
How often is Matron your first play? How exactly are you using Matron in this deck (proactively? reactively?)

I am guessing he planned on seeing a lot of sneak and show. Matron is a great flip to show and tell. Go get your stingscourger and bounce whatever they play.

*EDIT He isn't even running the stingscourger so that makes me even more confused*

[rlesko]

I have the same question for Hunter if he reads the Source...

I've seen other lists running REB so perhaps someone can chime in even if Hunter does not check these forums.

[rlesko]

I am guessing he planned on seeing a lot of sneak and show. Matron is a great flip to show and tell. Go get your stingscourger and bounce whatever they play.

*EDIT He isn't even running the stingscourger so that makes me even more confused*

He has it in the board.

[Ace/Homebrew]

*EDIT He isn't even running the stingscourger so that makes me even more confused*
He has 1 in the sideboard.

But even looking through his toolbox, the only goblin that is better in his hand than directly into play is Gempalm Incinerator.
I'm missing the Sandstone Needles and a handful of sideboard cards (Sphere, Shusher, Incinerator, Seas) but plan to pilot this list at my weekly to see if Matron's role is intuitive of if I need to be spoon-fed his strategy.

[potatodavid]

His list is really unique to begin with. Might just be tutoring up a rabble and starting the beats or if he needs to, they might be moggcatcher 4-8. Its not a bad strategy its just interesting.

[Lyle Hopkins]

Pretty interesting marriage of Goblins (4x Matron) and Stompy going on in this list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=92452).

Wouldn't you be better off with Imperial Recruiter instead of Goblin Matron? I guess more often than not, Goblin Matron will be uncounterable with Cavern of Souls, but Imperial Recruiter can grab Magus of the Moon and possible non-goblin sideboard cards such as Phyrexian Revoker, Jaya Ballard, Task Mage etc. This my not be that significant for Briggs' list, and maybe it's negligible for most Moggcatcher builds, but I think it's something to consider.

[potatodavid]

Wouldn't you be better off with Imperial Recruiter instead of Goblin Matron? r.

Possible budget decision

[Ace/Homebrew]

This may not be that significant for Briggs' list.
I'm thinking this is correct. The only cards Imperial Recruiter gets over Goblin Matron is Moggcatcher and Magus of the Moon.
There is also an argument that can be made regarding Cavern of Souls, but it isn't strong because Recruiter is a member of the Human tribe along with Catcher and Magus.

[Octopusman]

Sometimes I will board out Chalices if I bring in REB or Pyroblast and sometimes not. Depends on the matchup.

The keep it simple, if I'm mostly just blanking cantrips and maybe plow, I'll take the chalices out. They can cantrip away and I will sandbag blast for S&T, Jace TMS, FoW.
If there are high impact 1 drops like delver, top, etc I will include all.

Often, chalice is countered or removed so the conflict is a minor issue for the powerful possibility to blast. Blasts just wins games.

[iamajellydonut]

Often, chalice is countered or removed so the conflict is a minor issue for the powerful possibility to blast. Blasts just wins games.

Sooo... the ol' "dies to removal"?

Edit: I reread and actually understand what you're saying now about REBs. Still really confused as to your general outlook on boarding Chalices tho.

[potatodavid]

Wat?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Sooo... the ol' "dies to removal"?
Smart ass. :tongue:
O-man's feedback was more nuanced than you are giving credit for.

He was pointing out that in certain matchups REB/CotV don't necessarily conflict because if one works, the other isn't necessary. Or if one fails, the other is there as backup.

It is similar to running Aether Vial and CotV in Merfolk. You're happy landing either one. If you get a Vial in before CotV, bully for you. If not, you have the Vial ready in case they find an answer to CotV.

[iamajellydonut]

Smart ass. :tongue:
O-man's feedback was more nuanced than you are giving credit for.

He was pointing out that in certain matchups REB/CotV don't necessarily conflict because if one works, the other isn't necessary. Or if one fails, the other is there as backup.

It is similar to running Aether Vial and CotV in Merfolk. You're happy landing either one. If you get a Vial in before CotV, bully for you. If not, you have the Vial ready in case they find an answer to CotV.

Yeah, I just read that again. My b. :V

[Mystical_Jackass]

I'm not sure I completely understand the odd 3/3/3 splits, but I guess I can't argue with results :cool:. It just seems kind of odd he's running 21 lands with a split like that, for example if I was building I'd either run 4 chrome mox and less lands or run 4 mox diamonds and a couple more lands in case he decides to pitch another Tomb and/or Needle. It's sort of a double edged sword 'cause I understand multiples are bad, but keeping a no Mox hand and drawing into it turn 3 is almost worse.

Matron with Cavern kind of makes sense, but I still feel like just about any non-blue match Recruiter is far better-- you can get EXACTLY the card you need, so if its Magus, Revoker, Jaya or even something like Metamorph or Duplicant, you could get any silver bullet. You're already running Chalice/3sphere, rhetorical question but how much worth it are those extra caverns?

[potatodavid]

I am going to try something similar and see how it goes. I feel like this was a budget deck that just went on a tear and landed in all the right MU's for the day.

[rlesko]

I am going to try something similar and see how it goes. I feel like this was a budget deck that just went on a tear and landed in all the right MU's for the day.

I hate to blame someone's success on luck but I have to agree, just don't see how a lot of these deck building choices are optimal.

[potatodavid]

Was just messing around with the matron list. it honestly feels extremely awkward. Decided to change things up a bit and drop all 4. Suggestions are needed. Hoping to optimise this a little more before thursday.

4XTomb
4x City
9x Mountain
3x Chrome Mox
4x Cavern

4x Mogg Catcher
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Settler
1x Tuktuk
1x Kiki Jiki
2x SGC
1x Krenko
3x Rabblemaster

4x Moon Men
4x Moon

2x Jitte
4x Chalice
4x 3 ball.



I think if I see a lot of S&T. I will try the Matron Build. Seems really strong if you can search for any number of answers.

[Blastoderm]

Was just messing around with the matron list. it honestly feels extremely awkward. Decided to change things up a bit and drop all 4. Suggestions are needed. Hoping to optimise this a little more before thursday.

4XTomb
4x City
9x Mountain
3x Chrome Mox
4x Cavern

4x Mogg Catcher
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Settler
1x Tuktuk
1x Kiki Jiki
2x SGC
1x Krenko
3x Rabblemaster

4x Moon Men
4x Moon

2x Jitte
4x Chalice
4x 3 ball.



I think if I see a lot of S&T. I will try the Matron Build. Seems really strong if you can search for any number of answers.

Moggcatcher does the same (grabs stingscourger). I would -1 Krenko and +1 SCG in your list.

[WhiteHeart]

I will do my best to attempt answering everyone's questions if I leave something out let me know.

Sandstone needle is slower than city of traitors but in no way limits your land drops and provides a color of mana that is more appropriate for the amount of RR casting cost cards.
Red blast is just good enough in the current meta that it's non-bo with chalice is worth having them both. at times it may be removed from board if dig being baned makes tons of problematic blue cards irrelevant but until then its a good answer to countermagic on your important spells and hate for TNN and such.

Matron is being played strictly as moggcatcher 5-8 also a budget option as imperial recruiter is just way to pricey for me to bother with however the added benefit is its better synergy with Krenko, catcher, SGC, and so on.

the 3 of chalice was because I had three of them on me at the time T-sphere and chalice as four of made me run into either more than I cared to although in the future I will likely be running 4 chalice as it was by far the best performing lock piece between the two.

Magus of the Moon is just Blood moon #5 I had almost 0 instances of ever wanting to tutor for it as blood moon is a better permanent and with 4 MB shows up most games.

The use of cavern of souls as a 4 of is catering to the tribal nature of the deck and thus far has been very useful. the guarantee of resolving your threats through balance and force of will is not something that can be downplayed in my opinion.

As for Boil/boiling seas I understand that boil is strictly better however I only had one of each...

As for my amount of luck in the tournament I had a lot of good draws. the biggest advantage you have as a strategy like this is catching your opponent off guard. most people we're only vaguely familiar with the moggcatcher lists and bloodmoon is a very powerful card in a format of tricolor decks and fetchlands, and of course I am very familiar with the format so I was knowledgeable about all of the decks I played against all of which worked in my favor.

As for the land vs mana producing permanents and such I can only say that extra mountains are much much better against wastelands, and that chrome mox is a mediocre card that trades card advantage for an extra mana source. I dropped my fourth after much playtesting and despising it every time I drew into sans my opening hand (slight exaggeration)

There are several changes I would make to the deck for future use:
-1 Chandra + one chalice: Chandra while being a decent card is really just a howling mine that can do a bad staff of nin impersonation her ultimate is useless in my list and I felt like lowering the curve to include a fourth chalice would be stronger.
-1 sandstone needle + one city of traitors: I find sandstone usually better but to many makes it a bit slow plus A-tomb # 5 is nice to have

[Ace/Homebrew]

I will do my best to attempt answering everyone's questions.
Thanks for sharing man. Congrats on your performane and welcome to the Source! :cool:

[WhiteHeart]

Thanks for sharing man. Congrats on your performane and welcome to the Source! :cool:

Thanks been here alot before but didnt have an account

[potatodavid]

Thanks been here alot before but didnt have an account

will definitely be trying something similar to your list out. Especially after looking at your changes. Congrats on your good results!

[WhiteHeart]

will definitely be trying something similar to your list out. Especially after looking at your changes. Congrats on your good results!

Thanks let us know how it works for ya I definitely think the deck can use some tweaking

[Octopusman]

Sooo... the ol' "dies to removal"?

Edit: I reread and actually understand what you're saying now about REBs. Still really confused as to your general outlook on boarding Chalices tho.

Thanks to Ace/Homebrew for articulating what I did poorly, apparently.

I'll side chalice out when I'm going to bring in blasts to do work against cards that chalice can't deal with. If I'm not playing the chalice in my hand so that I can blast the Show and Tell that will end me if it resolves, why isn't the chalice a different card? I'm very open to hearing other opinions with examples if anyone thinks taking chalices out for blasts if ever a bad idea.

[ZEROorDIE]

Played the following list to go 2-2 last night. First time playing it, super fun deck, definitely needs tweaking though. I also had a sideboard built from scraps with only half a plan towards the meta I usually see.

List
Creatures:
4 revoker
4 magus
4 rabblemaster
4 thunder break
4 stormbreath

Accelerant
4 chrome mox
4 seething song
4 ssg

Prison
4 chalice
3 blood moon
3 trinishpere

Lands
4 tomb
4 city
10 mountain

Thoughts: the redundancy was important with some cards, but others it was too much. I know this is a pretty simple list. Going forward I'd like to cut 1 stormbreath, 2 magus, 1 seething song. Probably fill in with 2 rakka Mar, 1 koth and 1 sword/jitte. Also considering pulling 2 mountain and 2 city of traitors for 2 needle and 2 wasteland.

Matches;
Bug delver 2-0
G1 turn 1 moon meets FoW, turn 2 moon gets him to scoop
G2 moon him on t2 he has death right and 2 flipped delvers by t3, on t4 I start playing thundetbreaks ftw

Some junk/maverick/true name deck
Game one result in me dying to TNN being pumped by 2 noble hierarch
G2 thunderbreak on t2 w/ ssg protecting it from daze followed up by bloodmoon shut the game down quick.
G3 he has quasali pridemage and two hierarch with a jitte on the pridemage I pyroclasm, but he still has a counter on jitte, I lose

Burn
G1 turn 1 chalice into trinishpere into thunderbreak
G2 I take a lot from tombs and as I'm set up for the win the following turn at 8 life he double fireblasts me
G3 chalice trinisphere and rabble master take care of business

Omnitell
G1 almost had him, then he released the ants on me with omniscience on top
G2 emrakul after a million cantrips all I had on board were lock pieces and moon men

[rlesko]

With the likely uptick in Sneak and Show are people going to start running revoker main?

[Octopusman]

With the likely uptick in Sneak and Show are people going to start running revoker main?

Not sure how large a portion of the meta will be sneak but someone from the Source was already playing it at my weekly last night.
I think we'll see more BGx which will have interesting targets for Revoker as well. Deed being the main one as it seems to be seeing a lot of play and it nukes our 3CMC collection quite nicely.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I tried out Hunter's list tonight with the following changes:

Main deck:
-1 Goblin Rabblemaster
-1 Krenko, Mob Boss
+2 Magus of the Moon

-1 Chandra, Pyromaster
+1 Chalice of the Void

-2 Sandstone Needle
+2 City of Traitors

Sideboard:
-1 Sphere of Resistance
-1 Vexing Shusher
-1 Red Elemental Blast
-1 Boiling Seas
+1 Ensnaring Bridge
+1 Sulfur Elemental
+2 Phyrexian Revoker

I went 2-2 and know where I made mistakes. Lessons were re-learned (it has been a while since I've played Moggcatcher and even longer since I've used Goblin Matron.

Sandstone Needle isn't a terrible card. I don't know that it is better in the deck than City, but I will continue testing it.

Goblin Matron surprised me greatly! I liked it a lot. Imperial Recruiter may be the better card, but I do not see the improvement Recruiter adds in this version of the deck being worth $698...

I'd like to test the Lightning Crafter combo (probably in the sideboard) and think Goblin Chirurgeon is the better sac outlet than Skirk Prospector.

[potatodavid]

Goblin Chirurgeon is the better sac outlet than Skirk Prospector.

No.

Keep in mind the chirurgeon taps whatever it regenerates.

[Drizzy]

No.

Keep in mind the chirurgeon taps whatever it regenerates.

This is incorrect. The target is tapped only if it would actually be destroyed.

[dte]

No.

Keep in mind the chirurgeon taps whatever it regenerates.

And? For the combo, you can always sac the token championing Kiki-Jiki and target the chirurgeon himself.

So it's more up to the better illustration of the chirurgeon (and maybe its ability to regenerates your important critters) vs the mana producing ability of the prospector. I think the mana can be very important here.

[Blastoderm]

Why play these cute combos that remind me of my Krenko EDH when you can just get siege-gang each turn?

[lilevo]

I played a mono red stompy list last night that resembled the list Bahra posted a few months ago, to a 0-2 record in the Legacy DE, I really wanted to try Avaricious Dragon and to be honest I don't think he is very good at least not as a 4 of like I tried. Now my question is how do you approach the miracles MU? or what cards should I have in my deck in order to have an advantage in this specific MU?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Why play these cute combos that remind me of my Krenko EDH when you can just get siege-gang each turn?
Engineered Plague, Ensnaring Bridge, Zealous Persecution, Golgari Charm, Goblin Sharpshooter, Electrickery, Empty the Warrens... Reasons exist, although they are admittedly narrow.

Don't get me wrong, SGC wins games! And is overwhelmingly what should be found with Moggcatcher.
I'm just talking about dedicating 2 sideboard spots for a potentially surprising combo win that doesn't use the attack step. I'm not even recommending it at this point! Just interested to try it out. It helps that both cards aren't necessarily useless.

[Blastoderm]

Engineered Plague, Ensnaring Bridge, Zealous Persecution, Golgari Charm, Goblin Sharpshooter, Electrickery, Empty the Warrens... Reasons exist, although they are admittedly narrow.

Don't get me wrong, SGC wins games! And is overwhelmingly what should be found with Moggcatcher.
I'm just talking about dedicating 2 sideboard spots for a potentially surprising combo win that doesn't use the attack step. I'm not even recommending it at this point! Just interested to try it out. It helps that both cards aren't necessarily useless.

Ah for the sideboard I suppose it's fine. I just hate putting these 1-of "toolbox" creatures in the maideck (kikjiki, goblin settler, etc). However I do have a Tuktuk scrapper in the main since blade will most likely become a thing again. My toolbox creatures of choice are only sided in if thought to have a significant impact:

- 1x Sharpshooter vs D&T/Elves/token decks
- 2x Stingscourger vs Reanimator/Show and Tell/Big things
- An extra Tuktuk scrapper - vs whatever necessary

Also don't get me wrong... huge fan of goblin combo since my Krenko EDH is a pure combo deck :) If you decide to play lightning crafter I think Rabblemasters are a must in the main in order to be able to cast it. This I can get behind since it's awesome even by itself.

[Ace/Homebrew]

If you decide to play lightning crafter I think Rabblemasters are a must in the main in order to be able to cast it. This I can get behind since it's awesome even by itself.
There are actually a bunch of decent Champion targets in Hunter's list. Matron, and Redcap are the ones I'm thinking of.

I also live for ridiculous crap like:
Kiki and Redcap on the board, play Crafter.
Copy Crafter with Kiki, copy champions Redcap, tap to bolt face.
Original Crafter's Champion trigger resolves, championing Crafter copy, returning Redcap, shocking opponent. :tongue:

[WhiteHeart]

[QUOTE=Blastoderm;908618]Ah for the sideboard I suppose it's fine. I just hate putting these 1-of "toolbox" creatures in the maideck (kikjiki, goblin settler, etc). However I do have a Tuktuk scrapper in the main since blade will most likely become a thing again. My toolbox creatures of choice are only sided in if thought to have a significant impact:

I mostly agree with this to many one of toolbox creatures makes akward draws more and more likely which works against the consistency of matron and moggcatcher. I left alot of those cards in sideboard because largely they werent useful enough save a few matchups. That being said there are probably other main deck combos that could be exploited in lieu of kikki-jikki that ones just my personal favorite. I will say one thing though SCG and rabblemaster were by far the best all around cards to be using in most situations.

[potatodavid]

Played a few rounds tonight with the following list:
______________________________
4X Chalice
4X 3 ball
4X Blood Moon
3x Moon Man

4x Moggcatcher
3x Rabblemaster
1x Redcap
1x Tuktuk
1x Krenko
1x SGC
4x Matron
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Kiki Jiki
1x Settler
2x Stone Rain

3x Chrome Mox
8x Mountain
4x Cavern
4x Tomb
4x City

SB
1x Emrakul
1x Ensaring Bridge
1x Boil
2x Revoker
1x sharpshooter
1x Stingscourger
3x pyrokenesis
1x pyroblast
1x shatterstorm
2x sulfur elemental

_________________________________



Round 1: BUG good stuff

1. Bloodmoon turn 1. He asks if he can fetch or if they were just mountains, then scoops.
2. He gets a goyf and a drs out. Counters my redcap. I bloodmoon. His 2 creatures get there as I draw nothing but land
3. Bloodmoon, turn 1. Moonman turn 2. Stone Rain turn 3. scoops.


Round 2:
Digless Omnitell.

Game 1. Turn 1 rabblemaster is a clock. He show and tells turn 3, which i sandbag a 3 ball when he shows omni.
Game 2. He plays a pyromancer... wat? Cantrips for a few turns. I get a krenko out, he releases the ants on me.
Game 3. Turn 1 rabblemaster. He probes. See's I have emrakul, and ensnaring bridge. Passes back. I go to attack, he bolts my rabblemaster precombat. I deal him one. Play a moggcatcher. Moggcater fetches another rabble while he plays cantrips all of his cards. I keep waiting for him to release the ants and kill me. He doesn't. I fetch Kiki Jiki, copy rabble. Swing for the win.



Deck was fun. Changes: -1x Krenko, +1 Rabble.

Rabble is just a clock. I am looking forward to playing this deck more.

[Zupponn]

Yeah, Krenko is horrible in this deck.

I'm not a huge fan of either Matron or Recruiter in this deck because they don't require your opponent to answer them. I prefer to force my opponent to have answers to everything I play or lose.

By the way, here's what my list looks like now:

4x Moggcatcher
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Rakka Mar
1x Stingscourger

4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte

11x Mountain
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb

Sideboard:

3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Anarchy
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Koth of the Hammer
1x Goblin Settler
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Stingscourger
1x Dualcaster Mage

Chandra's parents have been seeming better than the second Rakka Mar lately. They seem to add a bit more utility to the deck IMO. I'm also down to one equipment, having cut the SoFI a while back.

In the sideboard, the third Anarchy has been in flux with a third Pyrokinesis for a long time now. I can't really decide which I like better. The Dualcaster Mage is in there for hilariousness. He can really mess with decks like Reanimator and Miracles.

[Blastoderm]

Yeah, Krenko is horrible in this deck.

I'm not a huge fan of either Matron or Recruiter in this deck because they don't require your opponent to answer them. I prefer to force my opponent to have answers to everything I play or lose.

By the way, here's what my list looks like now:

4x Moggcatcher
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Rakka Mar
1x Stingscourger

4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte

11x Mountain
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb

Sideboard:

3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Anarchy
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Koth of the Hammer
1x Goblin Settler
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Stingscourger
1x Dualcaster Mage

Chandra's parents have been seeming better than the second Rakka Mar lately. They seem to add a bit more utility to the deck IMO. I'm also down to one equipment, having cut the SoFI a while back.

In the sideboard, the third Anarchy has been in flux with a third Pyrokinesis for a long time now. I can't really decide which I like better. The Dualcaster Mage is in there for hilariousness. He can really mess with decks like Reanimator and Miracles.

No goblin sharpshooter? This is great vs D&T... are you having that much trouble vs mono W?
Why the stingscourger maindeck?

I too have been wanting to try Mom&Dad Chandra. Maybe they'll replace a hound of griselbrand or two in my list.

[WhiteHeart]

I'm not a huge fan of either Matron or Recruiter in this deck because they don't require your opponent to answer them. I prefer to force my opponent to have answers to everything I play or lose.
-this was supposed to be a quote-

I would like to take a second to stress that the moggcatcher list is not a standard stompy deck its a deck geared much more towards the prison archetype. The use of tutor effects like matron are to gain what the other versions lack which is consistancy and value oriented lines of play. The idea is that your not overly reliant on your lock pieces and can play a normal game where you have more of a game plan than play a 4/4 hope it kills you. Im not in anyway trying to pick on anyone I just felt from a number of comments people were viewing it through the wrong lense.

[Blastoderm]

I'm not a huge fan of either Matron or Recruiter in this deck because they don't require your opponent to answer them. I prefer to force my opponent to have answers to everything I play or lose.
-this was supposed to be a quote-

I would like to take a second to stress that the moggcatcher list is not a standard stompy deck its a deck geared much more towards the prison archetype. The use of tutor effects like matron are to gain what the other versions lack which is consistancy and value oriented lines of play. The idea is that your not overly reliant on your lock pieces and can play a normal game where you have more of a game plan than play a 4/4 hope it kills you. Im not in anyway trying to pick on anyone I just felt from a number of comments people were viewing it through the wrong lense.

I think Recruiter can be good as it can fetch basically anything in the deck including all our threats. Matron is strictly worse: goblins are always 2 power or below...

[potatodavid]

I found matron to be extremely useful. Had a guy put a needle on my mogg catcher on friday. matron helped me search up the scrapper.

I also found it to be the best S&T drop. They drop a grislguy. I drop a matron search up a stingscourger. Seems alright.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Matron is strictly worse: goblins are always 2 power or below...
Admittedly so, but a playset of Imperial Recruiter costs $728.36 (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Judge+Promos/Imperial+Recruiter#paper). A playset of Goblin Matron costs $1.96 (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Urzas+Saga/Goblin+Matron#paper).

Blastoderm, are you arguing the increased versatility of Recruiter is worth $726.40 in a deck that is mostly Goblins (WhiteHeart's list had 5 humans)? :eyebrow:

[zangoasyl]

Blastoderm, are you arguing the increased versatility of Recruiter is worth $726.40 in a deck that is mostly Goblins (WhiteHeart's list had 5 humans)? :eyebrow:

It definitely is, especially when you consider that a deck with multiple moggcatchers, recruiters and magus allows you to play a staple of cavern of souls and put them into play announcing humans!

[Ace/Homebrew]

It definitely is, especially when you consider that a deck with multiple moggcatchers, recruiters and magus allows you to play a staple of cavern of souls and put them into play announcing humans!
According to MtG Goldfish, buying WhiteHeart's 7th place list from scratch (maindeck) costs $710.26. A playset of Imperial Recruiters costs more than the rest of the deck! And it allows you to fetch 2 other cards (a 4-of and a 1-of). It also hurts the current strength of naming Goblin with Cavern of Souls.

I do not doubt Recruiter's strength as a card. I am pointing out that in WhiteHeart's list, Goblin Matron does everything Recruiter would do except grab 5 humans (which isn't actually true... Recruiter cannot fetch Krenko, Mob Boss).

Remember when replying in a forum that the conversation usually involves the last several posts. Yes Zango, Recruiter is a good card. But WhiteHeart's 7th place finish with his list was unlikely to improve had he added 4 cards that cost more than the other 56 in his deck.

[ahg113]

According to MtG Goldfish, buying WhiteHeart's 7th place list from scratch (maindeck) costs $710.26. A playset of Imperial Recruiters costs more than the rest of the deck! And it allows you to fetch 2 other cards (a 4-of and a 1-of). It also hurts the current strength of naming Goblin with Cavern of Souls.

I do not doubt Recruiter's strength as a card. I am pointing out that in WhiteHeart's list, Goblin Matron does everything Recruiter would do except grab 5 humans (which isn't actually true... Recruiter cannot fetch Krenko, Mob Boss).

Remember when replying in a forum that the conversation usually involves the last several posts. Yes Zango, Recruiter is a good card. But WhiteHeart's 7th place finish with his list was unlikely to improve had he added 4 cards that cost more than the other 56 in his deck.

I enjoy your posts. Should've hoped on the stompy bandwagon when I first saw you play it back in 2012, now I'm effectively priced out (but I bought a new watch, so I got that going for me.)

What makes me even happier- came for your take on Stompy, delighted to find a light pissing match discussing Goblins (still stompy, but not dragons).

Joy :smile:

[Blastoderm]

If I had Recruiters I still wouldn't play them (don't like how it slows the deck down). I was merely pointing out that I find it better than Matron since it can find Magus of the Moon and Moggcatcher. I didn't know "budget" was a constraint in this discussion (we aren't in the Cavius budget forum). Reminds me of the time when I suggested in the pox thread that it should play 3x Tabernacle maindeck. My suggestion wasn't welcome and was shot down.

Edit: I tested mom&dad nalaar, was great!

[Ace/Homebrew]

If I had Recruiters I still wouldn't play them (don't like how it slows the deck down).
That is completely fair!


I was merely pointing out that I find it better than Matron since it can find Magus of the Moon and Moggcatcher.
And I agree if the only goblins you use are 3 Siege-Gang Commanders and a Tuktuk Scrapper!


I didn't know "budget" was a constraint in this discussion (we aren't in the Cavius budget forum).
Budget wasn't a constraint, but it is a factor. If you see a list with Moat, Chains of Mephistopheles, or Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale they usually appear as singletons.

The only constraint was that we were discussing WhiteHeart's list.
You stated "Matron is strictly worse", and it is more nuanced than that.

The list (not including Matron/Recruiter) uses 5 humans and 11 goblins. There are another 4 goblins in the sideboard.
If you use Recruiter, the mix is 9/11.
If you use Matron, the mix is 5/15.

When you are using Cavern of Souls, you want as much of your creature base to be homogenous as possible.
Krenko in the list also adds a point in Matron's favor because Matron can get it but Recruiter cannot. THEN factor in the +$700 card difference.

[potatodavid]

Someone for the Love of God Play a Moat//Chains List.

[WhiteHeart]

In my case it was sort of a budget issue but after testing I prefer matron to recruiter primarily for the cavern of souls choice being easier and to tutor for krenko. In all fairness however they are both viable optuons and likely come more to a matter of personal preference rather than which is better.

[WhiteHeart]

Oh also matron can be moggcatchered for and recruiter cant (the sweet synergy) not that it matters much.

[Blastoderm]

Oh also matron can be moggcatchered for and recruiter cant (the sweet synergy) not that it matters much.

Lol you tutor for a goblin to put into play which tutors for another to put into your hand.

I'd rather spend my turns playing threats instead of tutoring for them.

[WhiteHeart]

Lol you tutor for a goblin to put into play which tutors for another to put into your hand.

I'd rather spend my turns playing threats instead of tutoring for them.

Its technically a source of card advantage and also can help you prepare to recover after a supreme verdict ot terminus. So yes in rare instances it is the proper line of play.

[WhiteHeart]

.
There are several changes I would make to the deck for future use:
-1 Chandra + one chalice: Chandra while being a decent card is really just a howling mine that can do a bad staff of nin impersonation her ultimate is useless in my list and I felt like lowering the curve to include a fourth chalice would be stronger.
-1 sandstone needle + one city of traitors: I find sandstone usually better but to many makes it a bit slow plus A-tomb # 5 is nice to have

I have since made the aforementioned changes to the list and so far they are working well while im not a big city of traitors fan its a somewhat necessary evil.
I've aldo dropped a krenko in favor of a third rabblemaster Krenko is powerful but having more than one wasnt making it better since he's best against the decks that already have trouble removing him.

[warfordium]

dropped by this thread to see if i could make a couple suggestions after using Rabblemaster and Regent in the 3- and 4-drop slots. Nice to see Rakka and Flamespeaker already getting some love.

How about Outpost Siege in the Chandra slot and Awaken the Ancient at the 4-drop slot? The latter seems a hell of a lot better than Griselhünd…

[Zupponn]

dropped by this thread to see if i could make a couple suggestions after using Rabblemaster and Regent in the 3- and 4-drop slots. Nice to see Rakka and Flamespeaker already getting some love.

How about Outpost Siege in the Chandra slot and Awaken the Ancient at the 4-drop slot? The latter seems a hell of a lot better than Griselhünd…

Outpost Siege is definitely an interesting card to consider if you're looking to generate card advantage. It is easier to cast than Chandra if you're running her, so that's a plus. 3R is far superior in this deck than 2RR. I could see sexy combo shenanigans with the Dragon side and token generators, while the Khans side is straight up good on its own. This does provide some flexibility in the card as it could be used at any point in the game fairly well. Chandra's main advantage would be the unblockability that she offers with her +1, so I think it both depends on your playstyle and your build to determine which card would be superior in most situations.

Awaken the Ancient is really bad. First, it costs 1RRR and that color requirement basically makes it too inconsistent to be worth it. On top of that, a generic 7/7 with haste is nothing too special in the world of Swords to Plowshares and trying to find one of your 10 or 11 Mountains to enchant is going to problematic. Then if your opponent kills that Mountain your manabase could be royally screwed because of how heavily we rely on those Mountains to give our landbase some sense of stability. So, after all that, we look at the card and see that the costs are far too high to be worth running.

[cidbahamut]

I've been lurking on this thread for a couple months and finally got the all the pieces for the shell of the deck together and took it for a spin last night. For my first serious foray into the Legacy format(as opposed to laughing at everyone with my coin flip deck), I think I did pretty well to go 2-2. Anyway, figured I'd give a report on what's effectively a first draft of the deck and ask for some feedback.

List
____________________________________
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Phyrexian Revoker

4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Hanweir Watchkeep
2 Acolyte of the Inferno
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar

2 Stone Rain
1 Pillage
2 Darksteel Pendant

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Pyroblast
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Trinisphere
2 Flametongue Kavu
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Shatterstorm



1st match: UR Stoneblade
Blood Moon did work but not enough. Between missing chalice triggers and Jitte being an absolute house I just kinda folded.

2nd match: Reanimator
Game 1 Magus of the Moon early on shuts my opponent out. Game 2 I'm baddie and don't drop turn 1 Tormod's crypt because I think I'll have time to bait him into dumping more things in the yard to nail with it, so he drops Iona, Shield of Emeria on turn 2. Game 3 Blood Moon is a sweet card you guys.

3rd match: Combo
I saw a whole lot of tops in game one, which were used to seriously slow down Hanweir Watchkeep, but the lock pieces eventually got there. Game 2 consisted of him sitting there staring at a trinisphere, eating a Stone Rain and then proceeding to not draw a third land. Also of note: Darksteel Pendant did a lot of digging while he was durdling with top, which probably resulted in me getting enough live draws to capitalize on the lock pieces.

4th match: Blue Stompy?
I'm not really sure if the deck was an established archetype but it had a whole lot of serum powder, sol lands and blue. I made a lot of misplays and didn't have an answer to Jitte which basically solos my deck. Afterwards my opponent told me that the Hanweir Watchkeep seriously messed with his play sequencing, so I suppose it might function more as a lock piece in some matchups?

Overall I think my main issue is my sideboard. It's a bit of a mess right now and even with clear choices of things to bring in, I don't have a good sense of what to side out in most situations. Suggestions are welcome.

I felt the two Stone Rains did a fair bit of work last night. Two feels like a good number for the deck. It's not something you want overly often but it can ruin someone's day when people are keeping hands with low land counts or to knock out their sole basic.

Pillage seemed good on paper but ramping into it doesn't work and I found myself siding it out fairly often. The idea of having at least one artifact hate card maindeck is appealing, but this card just did not pull its weight.

Darksteel Pendant: did work. Nice to be able to drop it off a turn one sol land if need be. I'm not entirely sold on it, but being able to dig for threats/answers after establishing a lock proved to be surprisingly useful.

Mom and Dad do work. I don't know if I would want to run more than 2 in the deck though, as multiples are semi dead draws.

Acolyte of the Inferno: Honestly I was expecting more chump blockers to show up and I really just want this card to be better than it is. Gonna cut him and try something else.

Hanweir Watchkeep: In a similar vein, I expected more Tarmogoyfs to block with this guy's five toughness. As a threat he just feels too inconsistent, and burning your own turn not casting spells to flip him just is not reliable if you don't have Chalice or Trinisphere online.

Jaya Ballard: Was better when I was derping around the format with a half built shell and blowing up Omniscience. I've got a soft spot in my heart for this card and want to find a home for it, but it didn't do as much heavy lifting as I'd hoped. Dunno if I'm ready to cut it, but it might need a slightly different shell to really shine.

[Zupponn]

I can get behind most of your choices except for the big threat selection. I would replace the Watchkeeps, the Acolytes, and at least one Jaya (maybe 2) with different threats. Good choices could be Rakka Mar, Rakdos Pit Dragon, and Goblin Rabblemaster.

I'm also not sure about the Pendants as they don't seem to do enough for me. Maybe they could be better as some kind of equipment like Jitte, SoFI, or SoBM. Even just adding more threats could be nice.

No matter what you do, build towards your own playstyle. Only you are going to know how the cards work within your deck.

[Koby]

I am 7-2 in GP SeaTac with Dragon Stompy.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I am 7-2 in GP SeaTac with Dragon Stompy.
Fuck yeah man! :laugh:
Keep it up. Looking forward to seeing your list.

[Koby]

It's more or less the same list I posted a few months ago from Knightware:

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Magma Jet
3 Trinisphere

[Morzas]

Get there.

[Zupponn]

Like the list. Best of luck!

[Barook]

Koby also got a deck tech (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/deck-tech-dragon-prison-with-jacob-kory-2015-11-08)

[Koby]

Fact: Wizards can't Math.

[Blastoderm]

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18766&iddeck=142318

Goblin stompy was undefeated day 1 lol. Glad to see those sudden shocks in the SB.

[Ace/Homebrew]

It's more or less the same list I posted a few months ago from Knightware.
Koby,
Looks like the differences are:

+ Pia and Kiran Nalaar
+ Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

- Sword of Fire and Ice
- Koth of the Hammer

Could you comment on how Sarkhan treated you? Would you continue using him?
Were there any matches other than Reanimator/Sneak n Show where you would bring in Ensnaring Bridge?

[dte]

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18766&iddeck=142318

Goblin stompy was undefeated day 1 lol. Glad to see those sudden shocks in the SB.

I really like this list. With the 3x goblin settler along moon effects, you should crush control so easily.

[Blastoderm]

I really like this list. With the 3x goblin settler along moon effects, you should crush control so easily.

Boil and Koth in the SB are the final nails in the coffin :P

My meta surprisingly has only 1 Miracles so going this route isn't what I want to be doing. But this player certainly made the right meta call for this GP.

[Koby]

Koby,
Looks like the differences are:

+ Pia and Kiran Nalaar
+ Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

- Sword of Fire and Ice
- Koth of the Hammer

Could you comment on how Sarkhan treated you? Would you continue using him?
Were there any matches other than Reanimator/Sneak n Show where you would bring in Ensnaring Bridge?

Pia and Kiran never came up. I think they can also be SCG but I wanted something a little cheaper for when I'm tight on mana. Never cast it all tournament though.

Sarkhan was good as a third Stormbreath. Only used the +1 mode, and it was great vs Baleful Strix.

Ensnaring Bridge also came in vs Shardless BUG decks because wtf how do we deal with Goyf? I lost 3 matches to Tarmogoyf beatdowns.

[apocolyps6]

Speaking of goyf beatdowns, what do people think of aftershock? The card isn't super amazing against beatdowns for obvious reasons.. but hey, it is the red vindicate.

[Blastoderm]

SGC and Rakka Mar are great vs Goyf.

[ZTurgeon]

The Moggcatcher based decks tend to be better vs Goyf than the Dragon and Planeswalker based decks. The ability for Moggcatcher to indefinitely answer a Goyf while also applying pressure is huge in those matchups. The deck is much weaker to damage based sweepers and bolts/punishing fire, so that is certainly a tradeoff. I was working on an artifact heavy version for a while to be the best of both worlds, but it was more prone to just dying to itself.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I was working on an artifact heavy version for a while to be the best of both worlds, but it was more prone to just dying to itself.
Plus you'd need to find an alternative to Chrome Mox. I wanted to explore Crumble to Dust in a build with Boom // Bust, Stone Rain, Fulminator Mage, Goblin Settler, and Ravaging Horde but I'd need to switch to Mox Diamond and I do not have any of those yet... :rolleyes: