[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Blastoderm]

The Moggcatcher based decks tend to be better vs Goyf than the Dragon and Planeswalker based decks. The ability for Moggcatcher to indefinitely answer a Goyf while also applying pressure is huge in those matchups. The deck is much weaker to damage based sweepers and bolts/punishing fire, so that is certainly a tradeoff. I was working on an artifact heavy version for a while to be the best of both worlds, but it was more prone to just dying to itself.

It really depends if the meta is full of goyf or miracles. In the case of GP SEATAC it was both... with shardless and miracles being the most played decks. So either choice would have been fine (goblin.dec or planeswalker.dec) but I probably would have tuned moggcatcher to include some Koth.

[Octopusman]

Koby also got a deck tech (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/deck-tech-dragon-prison-with-jacob-kory-2015-11-08)

Nice to see Stormbreath represent. Thought it was pretty ambitious to run the typical 18 land and then four 8 drops and three 5 drops without seething song. Glad it worked for you. Cool list. :)

[Koby]

Now that you mention it, I would probably rebuild the deck with 19 lands and cut Pia and Kiran Nalaar for another Mountain.

[Zupponn]

Yeah, I've been running 11 mountains for a long time now. I don't know how much it affects things, but it feels decent.

[Octopusman]

10 mountains vs 11. Doesn't seem like much but it can be.

http://peterniemeier.com/mtg/1.png

http://peterniemeier.com/mtg/2.png


Bonus stats for funzies (based on 8 sol lands, 4 moxen, 4 guides, 8 moons, 4 chalice, 4 trinisphere)

http://peterniemeier.com/mtg/3.png

[Koby]

10 vs 11 lands is the difference of mana screw of 1 in 30 games.
Given a Grand Prix has 15 matches, 30 games isn't irrelevant.

[ZTurgeon]

It really depends if the meta is full of goyf or miracles. In the case of GP SEATAC it was both... with shardless and miracles being the most played decks. So either choice would have been fine (goblin.dec or planeswalker.dec) but I probably would have tuned moggcatcher to include some Koth.

Personally, I have never found miracles to be a hard matchup once I started keeping in blood moons. It's intuitive because they have so many basics but I am convinced at this point that it is thr right call. They run tons of basics yet run double blue and double white cards, but can get away with it because of so many fetches. Stopping there fetches normally takes them off double white and probably double blue, but more importantly makes there brainstorms and tops into trash.


Yes, I have always had some slower card advantage cards in the board of the goblin version for them other grindy decks, but I have found a ton of my success against them revolves around landing a blood moon or chalice on 1 to take the top out of the equation and then forcing them to 1 for 1 with their removal. Once they don't have the top spinning them into the right spell every turn, they have real issues against the red stompy decks because they simply do not have the removal for every threat. When you cast a SCG and then have a plow, they are in trouble. When you land a moggcatcher and then need to terminus it, thats a win.

[ArielBlaze]

1st Place at South Florida Magic Legacy with moggcatcher yesterday.

Main:
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Bloodmoon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Trinisphere
3 Chrome Mox
2 Goblin Settler
2 Kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
2 siege-gang commander
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 murderous redcap
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountains


Board:
1 Goblin matron
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Stingscourger
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Chieftain
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sulfur Elemental


Outside of two rough rounds in a row where my head just wasnt in the game, I went undefeated.
Rd1: American Delver
-he mulled to 5 game 1 and still almost stabilized before I could run him over
-game 2, chalice on 1 followed by moggcatcher controlled the game
Rd2: Turbo
-8 maindeck moons and 2 settlers spelled a quick win
Rd3: Miracles(First match on camera)
-head was not in the game, game 3 I should have been a bit more aggressive with my moggcatchers since I knew I was running matron specifically for this matchup, still played it the safe way and lost because of it.
Rd4: Shardless bug
-game 1 never found a threat after landing a moon, lost to a 3/4 goyf
-game 2, never drew the colored mana source after scrying to the bottom
Rd5: Modified modern burn
-burn is not my strongest match even with jitte, ended up running over him with turn 1 trinisphere followed by rabblemaster both games
-kept magus in since he was running atarkas, boros, and destructive revelry. kept him from handling my hate cards

Top 8 Matches:
Quarterfinals: ANT
-Game 2 he has the turn one against my turn1 moon hand, he is on the play. He punts by saying black off his LED rather than red, few turns later and I run him over with siege-gang.
Semifinals: Turbo
-Surprisingly he has a very positive winrate against bloodmoon decks, he has a history of playing painter and werewolf stompy. The 8 moon+2 settlers in the main pretty much guaranteed the match was even heavier in my favor than it used to be. He lost to double magus+double bridge game 2.
Finals: American Delver
-He believes its nearly unwinnable but its a pretty solid match if I dont find the chalice and get a solid board presence against truename. He also wanted to go home and me not to play it super safe the final game(I normally play safe to avoid making terrible calls, so playing prison while getting in for the win is usually my goto route).

Normally, unless I see D&T in the room I wouldnt play sulfur elemental, and it was only sided in against miracles, in retrospec I would have preferred it was koth but those are currently out for getting signed at GP Pittsburgh. The 8 moon effects was surprisingly strong even with a pretty heavy amount of burn in the room(3/20 that I saw) and I am tempted to keep it that way. Not sure I like 2 settlers in the main but I do love the card and I can definitely play it how I feel that given day, alot of times I will play a chieftain or krenko/stingscourger in that spot. Jitte is just another way to hedge against D&T and burn but I find myself needing it less and less.
There were 0 sneak and show players in the room today, so I did not side against it.

[Zupponn]

Good job man! I like seeing different peoples' takes on the Goblin build. I'm not sure if I like the double Kiki-Jiki, but the rest looks solid.

[ArielBlaze]

I have been on the double kiki plan for awhile. Sometimes it is not what I want but I have no qualms about imprinting it since I have a second copy, or if one is stuck in my hand, or if I need to do some endstep 3 moggcatcher shenanigans(or blow up 2 lands in a turn or something similar).

[Redkid43]

I saw this list from an event in Conneticut. Love it

8 Sol
10 Mountain

4 SSG
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Rabblemaster
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon

3 Sudden Shock

1 Outpost Seige
4 Blood Moon

1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Koth

1 Fire and Ice
4 Mox
4 Sphere
4 Chalice


Sideboard

2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Shattering Spree

[lilevo]

@ArielBlaze is that you playing at 2:30?

http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/v/25949134

[Ace/Homebrew]

I took Koby's GP SeaTac list for a spin at my weekly.
There is evidence of my round 1 win against Manaless Dredge on the internet.

http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/v/26482539

Game 1 @ 7:00
Game 2 @ 18:00
Game 3 @ 28:00

[Zupponn]

I took Koby's GP SeaTac list for a spin at my weekly.
There is evidence of my round 1 win against Manaless Dredge on the internet.

http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/v/26482539

Game 1 @ 7:00
Game 2 @ 18:00
Game 3 @ 28:00

That Source playmat is sweet.

[Myelectronicdays]

Taking kobys list to my lgs on sat. Haven't played stompy for a bit so psyched to get back into it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[ArielBlaze]

@ArielBlaze is that you playing at 2:30?

http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/v/25949134

Yea it is,they were having updating difficulties with names/decktitles at the start of the round, I played an absolutely terrible game 3 that round, head wasn't in the game that or the next, atleast I came back to take first.

[rlesko]

I took Koby's GP SeaTac list for a spin at my weekly.
There is evidence of my round 1 win against Manaless Dredge on the internet.

http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/v/26482539

Game 1 @ 7:00
Game 2 @ 18:00
Game 3 @ 28:00

Missed his Chancellor on your chrome mox @ 7?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Missed his Chancellor on your chrome mox @ 7?
Nope!

We resolve mulligans and he announces Chancellor as a pre-game effect. I stare at it and comment that he is on Manaless Dredge and how it makes my (double Blood Moon) hand much worse. I play City of Traitors, then Chrome Mox. He again points out the Chancellor's trigger and I pay for it with City, floating :1:. He acknowledges that my mox resolves and I imprint Blood Moon. I tap the mox and exile a Spirit Guide (so I now have :1::r::r:) to play Blood Moon.

[Zupponn]

I did see you guys almost forgot to exile his bridge at that one point.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I did see you guys almost forgot to exile his bridge at that one point.
True. :wink:

Took Koby's list (with the changes he said he'd make; add a Mountain, drop mama + papa Nalaar) to the Top 8 of a small monthly event.
+2 Fiery Confluence
-1 Sulfur Elemental
-1 Pyrokinesis

R1, 2-1 win against Miracles
R2, 0-2 loss against Painters Servant
R3, 2-0 win against ANT
R4, 2-0 win against Reanimator
R5, ID with Elves

Top 8, lost 0-2 against Miracles

Only changes I'd make at this point are more Fiery Confluences in the board. :smile:

[ZTurgeon]

So since C15 came out, I am 17-4-2 in local stuff and a 52 man SCG IQ with this list, with the 2 draws being intentional, with all 4 losses coming to Death and Taxes. I'm going to be trying to change up the board to be better against it, but we will see what becomes of that. Rite has been good in the grindy or control matchups but it might not be needed. Magus of the Wheel has been a solid card with a big body, the ability to unlock cards spent on tempo and the ability to mess with miracles and Stoneforge activations and combo decks. Confluence has been amazing.

4x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Goblin Settler
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Magus of the Wheel
4x Moggcatcher
1x Murderous Redcap
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Siege-Gang Commander
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

4x Chalice of the Void
3x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
4x Blood Moon

4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain


Sideboard (15)
1x Boartusk Liege
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Fiery Confluence
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Null Rod
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Rite of the Raging Storm
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Stingscourger

[xdavisx]

i played legacy for the first time in about a year and powered my way into top 8 at a 50 person IQ. i got bounced by burn in the quarters of top 8, but the deck was pretty dope. the numbers might be a little weird mainly since i thought the IQ was gonna be standard so i had to throw a deck together in about 15mins.

3 abbot of keral keep
4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
4 rakdos pit dragon
4 avaricious dragon
1 moltensteel dragon

1 magma jet
4 chrome mox
4 blood moon
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
2 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of war and peace
1 sword of fire and ice

4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
2 cavern of souls
9 mountain

Sideboard
3 draconic roar
1 anarchy
2 boil
1 sulfur elemental
2 tormods crypt
1 Chandra pyromaster
2 sudden demise
2 smash to smithereens
1 phyrexian revoker

fortunately, the shop i was at streams their tournaments. i managed to get under cam for a couple of rounds. which is rad since there isn't enough dragon stompy coverage out there. http://www.twitch.tv/nerdragegaminglive/b/683442659?t=55m36s and again at 1:44:00.

also, myself and a fellow red mage do a podcast dedicated to red cards. we'll probably cover the tourney on this weeks pod. here's a another link for some info on the pod https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/3uh59o/discussion_red_deck_podcast_giveaway_contest_and/ . we're also giving away free stuff. so if you're into free stuff give it a peep.

[Zupponn]

How were the abbots? They don't seem that they would work too well in Dragon Stompy.

[nedleeds]

Went 4-0-2 and got to the semi finals in a ~50 person with blood moon this past weekend. Lost to elves on camera after he had his forest in his opener both games and played very well, I flooded out a bit as well and was on the draw. I think I'm a dog on the draw vs. elves if he's knows what I'm on. I expected 20% shardless derp, and we ended up with 9 BUG decks out of 48 people. 2 lands decks as well.

http://mtgpulse.com/event/22420#311764

watch me get wrecked here

http://www.twitch.tv/tuskvision/v/28585549?t=06h32m17s

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/l/t31.0-8/12363216_802086709917712_8848291034253087301_o.jpg

[Ace/Homebrew]

Went 4-0-2 and got to the semi finals in a ~50 person with blood moon this past weekend.
Congrats man!
Were both draws intentional?

Share your list. Derp!

[ZTurgeon]

Went 4-0-2 and got to the semi finals in a ~50 person with blood moon this past weekend. Lost to elves on camera after he had his forest in his opener both games and played very well, I flooded out a bit as well and was on the draw. I think I'm a dog on the draw vs. elves if he's knows what I'm on. I expected 20% shardless derp, and we ended up with 9 BUG decks out of 48 people. 2 lands decks as well.

http://mtgpulse.com/event/22420#311764

watch me get wrecked here

http://www.twitch.tv/tuskvision/v/28585549?t=06h32m17s

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/l/t31.0-8/12363216_802086709917712_8848291034253087301_o.jpg

Why did you opt to go with the smaller guys and equipment and lack of trinisphere?


I think that might contribute to the elves issue, as that match up is very good, even on the draw.

I've found that the equipment, no matter how powerful, is a fool's errand. When you are spending 2-3 cards to pump out a turn 1 lockpeice, you don't want to be left with an equipment with no creature. Additionally, when you are running stuff like magma jet main, this only compounds that issue as your creature count is lower. Scab-Clan and Flamespeaker just seem like worse rabblemasters. Yes, you probably can't run all 4 caverns if you go this route, but haveing a threat be 2R is so much better than having it be 1RR.


I really just don't understand why you chose that threat base, when it would seem to lack the raw power of Dragon Stompy and the flexability of Goblin Stompy.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Derp! List was in the first link you listed.

Creature [20]
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Avalanche Riders

Instant [4]
4 Magma Jet

Artifact [12]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantment [4]
4 Blood Moon

Land [20]
8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors


Sideboard:
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Stingscourger
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sudden Shock
1 Anarchy
2 Sudden Demise
2 Tormod's Crypt

[Octopusman]

Why did you opt to go with the smaller guys and equipment and lack of trinisphere?


I think that might contribute to the elves issue, as that match up is very good, even on the draw.

I've found that the equipment, no matter how powerful, is a fool's errand. When you are spending 2-3 cards to pump out a turn 1 lockpeice, you don't want to be left with an equipment with no creature. Additionally, when you are running stuff like magma jet main, this only compounds that issue as your creature count is lower. Scab-Clan and Flamespeaker just seem like worse rabblemasters. Yes, you probably can't run all 4 caverns if you go this route, but haveing a threat be 2R is so much better than having it be 1RR.


I really just don't understand why you chose that threat base, when it would seem to lack the raw power of Dragon Stompy and the flexability of Goblin Stompy.


I agree that trinisphere slows elves down quite a bit. However, I'm going to disagree on a few things here.
"Seems like" and reality aren't always the same. My empirical evidence is that equipment just wins games more often than when you have equipment and no threat or no equipment and another card.
Additionally, I suggest trying Flamespeaker and Rabblemaster. They're hard to compare. I think the 1RR has been demonized in this thread. After playing it for a while not, it's actually not very difficult to get.

I'll let nedleeds explain his card choices but you can go back some pages to get a more in-depth reasoning for including some of these cards.

Kind regards,

[nedleeds]

I essentially only lost because he raw dogged Forest in each opener. Other than that I destroyed the event, so I'm pretty sure the list is fine. Umezawa's Jitte and Double Strike / Trample is game over. My mana curve ends at 4 so I never get mana screwed. I have no interest in a Grey Ogre for 2RR that does nothing the turn he comes into play and gets boned by all kinds of hate cards. I had no interest in casting Seething Song and running a higher curve because I wanted to reduce awful top decks (of which there are still plenty in any stompy deck). My deck is mostly humans, which means in games when I don't resolve a Blood Moon or Blood Moon is awful I can still win. I have no interest in having a hodge podge of types if I'm running 4 caverns. Trinisphere is awesome, and I've cast it a billion times and crushed people with it but I wanted to play without it for the following reasons.

- I wanted to play Revokers main and you throw in 3 more colorless cards and Chrommox becomes very unreliable
- Trinisphere isn't very good on the draw in a room full of Deathrite. Go. I expected almost no storm combo in the room.
- I replaced it with Scab-Clan. Which can be almost as big a problem for storm anyway, and it pins under a mox, and its a clock, and it's uncounterable much of the time, and it eats planeswalkers for breakfast

I beat
Lands
Reaniderpator
BUG Agent
Omniderp (SCB dealing 18)
Shardless Aluren

I double drew in which in hindsight was a bad idea, I should have played for the top seed vs. Infect. Having the play is worth the risk. Regardless I won a tundra.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12295286_800747626718287_2515278344160588303_n.jpg?oh=27adc16f0f22f5095becf57f5a7fe1fe&oe=56DA3A90

[nedleeds]

Also, Anarchy was a piece of shit. Should have just been Boil or some better anti-miracles card, Omen of Fire maybe.

[nedleeds]

I agree that trinisphere slows elves down quite a bit.

It does, but mostly on the play. I'd argue a turn one moon or chalice one on the play is sufficient. DRS go on the draw has lessened 3balls efficacy a great deal. It's still the nuts vs. combo and if you are running more than 2 stone rains. I'm only running 2 stone rains.



"Seems like" and reality aren't always the same. My empirical evidence is that equipment just wins games more often than when you have equipment and no threat or no equipment and another card.


I agree. All but the high mana curve actual dragon stompy lists (of which I've had success with also) are full of Grey Fucking Ogres. I have 10 Grey Ogres if you include Avalanche Riders. Equipment is the best way to make them not dog shit. It's also defacto removal. I think SoFI vs. other SoXY is certainly up for debate. But the card draw prevents losing to just flooding which stompy decks tend to do. It lets you press the advantage. The shitty part is it makes chrommox shitty, thus cutting 3ball to get the red count to something more respectable.



Additionally, I suggest trying Flamespeaker and Rabblemaster. They're hard to compare. I think the 1RR has been demonized in this thread. After playing it for a while not, it's actually not very difficult to get.


Directly attributable to how reliable your chrommoxes are. I am running 4 Caverns. GRM is a good card but I just want my threats to be uncounterable. In a vacuum Rabblemaster is probably the better card, factor in equipment though and Flamespeaker is insane.

[ZTurgeon]

I agree that trinisphere slows elves down quite a bit. However, I'm going to disagree on a few things here.
"Seems like" and reality aren't always the same. My empirical evidence is that equipment just wins games more often than when you have equipment and no threat or no equipment and another card.
Additionally, I suggest trying Flamespeaker and Rabblemaster. They're hard to compare. I think the 1RR has been demonized in this thread. After playing it for a while not, it's actually not very difficult to get.

I'll let nedleeds explain his card choices but you can go back some pages to get a more in-depth reasoning for including some of these cards.

Kind regards,

I'm well aware of flamespeaker. I played him as a 4 of up until Rabble was printed. Rabble has just been better for me in every way since. And yes, the 1RR vs 2R is a big deal. With 20 colored sources (4 caverns/8 mountains/4 chrome mox/4 SSG) you have a 12% chance of missing double red by turn 3, while only a 1% chance of missing missing single red. That's a huge deal over the course of a long tournament. Yes, the Moon effects midigate this, but we are looking to win games when we don't have moons out, because the ones where we do are so heavily slanted in our favor already.

[Octopusman]

I essentially only lost because he raw dogged Forest in each opener. Other than that I destroyed the event, so I'm pretty sure the list is fine. Umezawa's Jitte and Double Strike / Trample is game over. My mana curve ends at 4 so I never get mana screwed. I have no interest in a Grey Ogre for 2RR that does nothing the turn he comes into play and gets boned by all kinds of hate cards. I had no interest in casting Seething Song and running a higher curve because I wanted to reduce awful top decks (of which there are still plenty in any stompy deck). My deck is mostly humans, which means in games when I don't resolve a Blood Moon or Blood Moon is awful I can still win. I have no interest in having a hodge podge of types if I'm running 4 caverns. Trinisphere is awesome, and I've cast it a billion times and crushed people with it but I wanted to play without it for the following reasons.

- I wanted to play Revokers main and you throw in 3 more colorless cards and Chrommox becomes very unreliable
- Trinisphere isn't very good on the draw in a room full of Deathrite. Go. I expected almost no storm combo in the room.
- I replaced it with Scab-Clan. Which can be almost as big a problem for storm anyway, and it pins under a mox, and its a clock, and it's uncounterable much of the time, and it eats planeswalkers for breakfast

I beat
Lands
Reaniderpator
BUG Agent
Omniderp (SCB dealing 18)
Shardless Aluren

I double drew in which in hindsight was a bad idea, I should have played for the top seed vs. Infect. Having the play is worth the risk. Regardless I won a tundra.


Thanks for the input and congrats on your prize! I'll have to take a closer look at your list. I've never used Scab-Clan Berzerker.

Thank you to ZTurgeon for numbers on chance to miss double red by turn 3.

[Zupponn]

Congrats nedleeds! It's cool to see the very different directions that you can take with the basic Stompy shell. I think that each version has its own merit depending on what meta you expect to walk into.

[Figurative]

Hey guys,

So I'm getting into legacy and am looking for a first deck (besides burn). I've always thought that dragon stompy lists were super cool, and they're well within my price range too. But how competitive are they? I always thought of this deck as solidly tier 3, however it looks like many people on this thread have been doing quite well with this deck recently. Would you recommend this deck to a spike-y player looking to get into legacy?

[WhiteHeart]

Hey guys,

So I'm getting into legacy and am looking for a first deck (besides burn). I've always thought that dragon stompy lists were super cool, and they're well within my price range too. But how competitive are they? I always thought of this deck as solidly tier 3, however it looks like many people on this thread have been doing quite well with this deck recently. Would you recommend this deck to a spike-y player looking to get into legacy?

That depends on what style of play you like. I am an advocate for stompy decks because by and large they are inexpensive and perform fairly well. Depending on your builds alot of times you are weak to soft permission and a quick threat also consistancy in your draws can be an issue with some builds (why I play 8 tutoring creatures in my moggcatcher list). If those arent things that bother you as a player then yes id say stompy shells are worth a try.

[Figurative]

That depends on what style of play you like. I am an advocate for stompy decks because by and large they are inexpensive and perform fairly well. Depending on your builds alot of times you are weak to soft permission and a quick threat also consistancy in your draws can be an issue with some builds (why I play 8 tutoring creatures in my moggcatcher list). If those arent things that bother you as a player then yes id say stompy shells are worth a try.

I do enjoy stompy decks, as I am part Timmy. I don't like inconsistency but I realize it's something that comes with the deck and I could live with it. Like I said before though, I want a deck that will put up results, enough to make going to 1Ks sustainable.

[Octopusman]

I do enjoy stompy decks, as I am part Timmy. I don't like inconsistency but I realize it's something that comes with the deck and I could live with it. Like I said before though, I want a deck that will put up results, enough to make going to 1Ks sustainable.

Inconsistency is definitely a thing.
Inexperienced players will lose often because their starting hand is "okay". Not being afraid to mulligan hard and often if necessary is essential to success with this deck.
Nedleeds' approach of trying to avoid crappy topdecks is a good one.

Dragon Stompy is considered Tier 2, but like any metagame deck, it's success depends on the prevalence of certain decks and the likelihood of what you're going to encounter.

You used to get paired against goblins constantly which wasn't great but that isn't really the case (at least in my area) anymore.
Additionally, you want to get paired against burn because chalice on 1 hits their deck like a truck. Trinisphere is also great here.

Also, I felt the deck struggled against Merfolk (vial/basic islands) though some claim it wasn't a bad matchup. Merfolk is also not exactly prevalent currently.

Unfortunately, Miracles is widely played and I, personally, have an issue combating it with this deck. However, greedy manabases are also at an all time high. Moons are strong right now and I don't see them getting weaker any time soon. If Miracles' popularity declines, it will be even better.

The deck is very fun and you can experiment with different threat packages. I highly recommend it and have played it with much enjoyment for many years.

Cheers,

[Figurative]

Inconsistency is definitely a thing.
Inexperienced players will lose often because their starting hand is "okay". Not being afraid to mulligan hard and often if necessary is essential to success with this deck.
Nedleeds' approach of trying to avoid crappy topdecks is a good one.

Dragon Stompy is considered Tier 2, but like any metagame deck, it's success depends on the prevalence of certain decks and the likelihood of what you're going to encounter.

You used to get paired against goblins constantly which wasn't great but that isn't really the case (at least in my area) anymore.
Additionally, you want to get paired against burn because chalice on 1 hits their deck like a truck. Trinisphere is also great here.

Also, I felt the deck struggled against Merfolk (vial/basic islands) though some claim it wasn't a bad matchup. Merfolk is also not exactly prevalent currently.

Unfortunately, Miracles is widely played and I, personally, have an issue combating it with this deck. However, greedy manabases are also at an all time high. Moons are strong right now and I don't see them getting weaker any time soon. If Miracles' popularity declines, it will be even better.

The deck is very fun and you can experiment with different threat packages. I highly recommend it and have played it with much enjoyment for many years.

Cheers,

Alright that makes sense. I have noticed that it hasn't placed very highly in many recent events, but I guess that's a result of what you just said. Is this deck a hidden gem, or does it deserve to be low in tier tier?

As for the builds, I was testing the one equipment build that has popped up. I know there's also a hellbent build and a goblin build -- any others I should know about? Is one just best right now?

Lastly, you said you have played this deck for a long time and enjoyed it. What build are you on? How well have you done?

Thanks.

[ChemicalBurns]

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oath-of-the-gatewatch/26215-chandra-flamecaller

So how does everyone feel about the new Chandra? I can only see it being potentially a one-of, because six mana is a heckuva lot, but its abilities fit pretty nicely with what we want to be doing. The zero is very powerful when we're out of gas, the minus is great because we typically don't have that many way to deal with creatures, and her plus can aid us when our opponent is locked out and we want to quickly clock them. Could just be only a sideboard consideration too, for matchups where our planeswalkers have always shone, like vs. Miracles etc. She then begs the question whether Koth or Chandra, Pyromaster are just better though.

[Zupponn]

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oath-of-the-gatewatch/26215-chandra-flamecaller

So how does everyone feel about the new Chandra? I can only see it being potentially a one-of, because six mana is a heckuva lot, but its abilities fit pretty nicely with what we want to be doing. The zero is very powerful when we're out of gas, the minus is great because we typically don't have that many way to deal with creatures, and her plus can aid us when our opponent is locked out and we want to quickly clock them. Could just be only a sideboard consideration too, for matchups where our planeswalkers have always shone, like vs. Miracles etc. She then begs the question whether Koth or Chandra, Pyromaster are just better though.

My first glance says that new Chandra is flat out bad. 6 mana for 6 damage, a Wheel of Fortune +1, or an Anger of the Gods? Crap. I seriously doubt that new Chandra will even see play in Standard. The only way that I feel that she'll impact any format is if she manages to create some broken combo with her 0, but again, we come back to that issue of her costing 6 mana. We tried to utilize Inferno Titan which has the same casting cost and he failed to pan out, so new Chandra is a no for us sadly.

It really sucks that blue gets stuff like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and red gets this piece of shit.

[Ace/Homebrew]

As for the builds, I was testing the one equipment build that has popped up. I know there's also a hellbent build and a goblin build -- any others I should know about?
Hellbent, Goblin, Werewolf, Human, Dragon... There's even a planeswalker control build around using main deck Ensnaring Bridge over Trinisphere. :wink:

This deck can completely wreck your 4-round weekly, but struggles when the tournament is 8+ rounds. I'd guess you lose at least 1 game in 6 rounds due to mulligans. If it's against an archetype you should beat, there goes your afternoon... cause there are definitely bad match ups (basically any other rogue strategy like Painter, Manaless Dredge, Goblins).

I've always struggled against Death and Taxes. I'd love a room full of Miracles. They usually have a tough time against me, but it really depends on your build.


I like the new Chandra... really, really like her. But she's an EDH card. She needed to cost :1: less.

[keys]

Pia and Kiran Nalaar should be a 2 or 3 of in this deck. That card is a house.

[Octopusman]

Hellbent, Goblin, Werewolf, Human, Dragon... There's even a planeswalker control build around using main deck Ensnaring Bridge over Trinisphere. :wink:

This deck can completely wreck your 4-round weekly, but struggles when the tournament is 8+ rounds. I'd guess you lose at least 1 game in 6 rounds due to mulligans. If it's against an archetype you should beat, there goes your afternoon... cause there are definitely bad match ups (basically any other rogue strategy like Painter, Manaless Dredge, Goblins).

I've always struggled against Death and Taxes. I'd love a room full of Miracles. They usually have a tough time against me, but it really depends on your build.


I like the new Chandra... really, really like her. But she's an EDH card. She needed to cost :1: less.

Here's the list I'm using now. I've had a lot of success with it but my Miracles matchup is not good. I used to play the Hellbent version with everything from Arc-Sloggers, Rakdos Pit-Dragons, Taurean Mauler.

city of traitors 4
ancient tomb 4
chrome mox 4
simian spirit guide 4
mountain 10
blood moon 4
magus of the moon 4
stormbreath dragon 3
seething song 3
goblin rabblemaster 2
Trinisphere 4
Chalice of the void 4
sword of war and peace 2
Prophetic Flamespeaker 4
Stone Rain 4

Cursed Totem 2
Bonfire of the Damned 2
Anarchy 2
Shattering Spree 2
Phyrexian Revoker 3
Pyroblast 4

Basically, I agree with Ace.

I think it's fair that the deck is low-mid tier as it is swingy. High risk - high reward. Sometimes you get bad hands or are manascrewed, but that's Magic. With this deck, until you focus on mulliganing when you need it, it will happen more often.

You can get on a lucky streak and crush everyone, but the higher the number of games you will play in an event, the higher the chance it that your luck will run out.

[The Crow's Eye]

@Octopusman: Tell me, what was your impression of the Hellbent version compared to the list you've just posted.

[Ace/Homebrew]

@Octopusman: Tell me, what was your impression of the Hellbent version compared to the list you've just posted.
I also started with the Hellbent version, so I'll throw my 2 cents in.

It's outdated. There was a time when Arc-Slogger was all you needed to take control of a game. Gathan Raiders and Rakdos Pit Dragon are the hellbent cards. Both are great when you are hellbent and are bad to average when you aren't. If you are hellbent and an opponent actually deals with them, then you are in a terrible position. Worse is that Lightning Bolt is ubiquitous and immune to Blood Moon and kills both if you don't have Chalice of the Void @ 1. Granted killing Raiders is tougher once hellbent.

[The Crow's Eye]

Thank you for weighing in, Ace. I was asking because I've got room for either Rakdos Pit Dragon or Thunderbreak Regent in a build that does not utilize Gathan Raiders. Your thoughts on which of the two might best fit? Doublestrike's nice, but I'm not playing equips at the moment.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Thank you for weighing in, Ace. I was asking because I've got room for either Rakdos Pit Dragon or Thunderbreak Regent in a build that does not utilize Gathan Raiders. Your thoughts on which of the two might best fit? Doublestrike's nice, but I'm not playing equips at the moment.
Neither have haste.
Regent has unconditional flying, is bolt-proof, and punishes an opponent that targets it with Swords to Plowshares.
Pit Dragon has firebreathing and conditional flying and doublestrike. It dies to bolt and is a waste of 4 mana if your opponent Swords it.

If you are not playing equipment I believe Regent is the hands-down favorite.
I would also recommend you consider Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
4 seems like a lot, but as keys mentioned above, that card is a house!

[Octopusman]

@Octopusman: Tell me, what was your impression of the Hellbent version compared to the list you've just posted.

Ace already said everything I would have.

Regent is seeing a lot of play, but I personally love Stormbreath Dragon for the faster clock and plow immunity. Regent is probably better if you're not running Seething Songs.

[Zupponn]

I'm trying to think of a good reason to run Thunderbreak over Stormbreath and I'm really drawing a blank here. Anybody have any ideas?

[The Crow's Eye]

I'm playing both in a list like the one from a few pages back with FTKs, RPD and TMaw Hellkite. Except with Regent over RPD and 3 FTK and 1 Rakka Mar. It's been fun and done well locally, though the Legacy meta's really kind of scattershot. There's a RUG, BUG, and then some random janky things that don't even have threads here. Instead of the Seething Songs I've opted for Magma Jets, and the Bonfire of the Damned slot is occupied by Rabblemaster. THhinking about it, my list is closer to the Demon Stompy that did well in Japan with the 3 Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath. Except with Stormbreath over Obby.

[nedleeds]

I'm trying to think of a good reason to run Thunderbreak over Stormbreath and I'm really drawing a blank here. Anybody have any ideas?

4 and 5. Comparing Thundermaw to Stormbreath, or Thunderbreak to Pia Nalaar or Hero is a more apt comparison. Comparing 4 drops and 5 drops is fruitless.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I took nedleed's list to the latest installment of the Philadelphia Legacy Series. I swapped a SoLaS for a SoWaP. I used Boil over Anarchy as ned suggested.

Creature [20]
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Avalanche Riders

Instant [4]
4 Magma Jet

Artifact [12]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantment [4]
4 Blood Moon

Land [20]
8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors


Sideboard:
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Stingscourger
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sudden Shock
1 Boil
2 Sudden Demise
2 Tormod's Crypt

There were 25 people. I ended the swiss at 4-0-1 in first place! I was 8-1 in games.

R1 - BUG, 2-0
R2 - Reanimator, 2-0
R3 - 4C Aggro Mentor
R4 - Grixis Pyromancer, 2-1
R5 - Aluren, ID

I thought my Aluren opponent was on Shardless BUG cause I saw Brainstorm and Shardless Agent when I was scouting the room. That cost me game 1 in the semi-finals.

Top 8 - Esper Mentor with :g: splash, 2-1
Top 4 - Aluren, 0-2

I ended up 3rd with enough credit to get a playset of Khans Wooded Foothills.

Top 8 was:
Blood Moon Stompy vs. Esper Mentor with :g: splash
Elves vs. Grixis Pyromancer
Painter vs. Belcher
4C Aggro Mentor vs. Aluren

Aluren took down Belcher in the finals and got a 1 round bye for Eternal Weekend.

Prophetic Flamespeaker was nuts all day. Scab-Clan Berserker didn't resolve the two times I cast her. The sideboard was fantastic against Reanimator.

The list was good! Would play again. :laugh:

[Octopusman]

I took nedleed's list to the latest installment of the Philadelphia Legacy Series. I swapped a SoLaS for a SoWaP. I used Boil over Anarchy as ned suggested.

Creature [20]
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Avalanche Riders

Instant [4]
4 Magma Jet

Artifact [12]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantment [4]
4 Blood Moon

Land [20]
8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors


Sideboard:
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Stingscourger
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sudden Shock
1 Boil
2 Sudden Demise
2 Tormod's Crypt

There were 25 people. I ended the swiss at 4-0-1 in first place! I was 8-1 in games.

R1 - BUG, 2-0
R2 - Reanimator, 2-0
R3 - 4C Aggro Mentor
R4 - Grixis Pyromancer, 2-1
R5 - Aluren, ID

I thought my Aluren opponent was on Shardless BUG cause I saw Brainstorm and Shardless Agent when I was scouting the room. That cost me game 1 in the semi-finals.

Top 8 - Esper Mentor with :g: splash, 2-1
Top 4 - Aluren, 0-2

I ended up 3rd with enough credit to get a playset of Khans Wooded Foothills.

Top 8 was:
Blood Moon Stompy vs. Esper Mentor with :g: splash
Elves vs. Grixis Pyromancer
Painter vs. Belcher
4C Aggro Mentor vs. Aluren

Aluren took down Belcher in the finals and got a 1 round bye for Eternal Weekend.

Prophetic Flamespeaker was nuts all day. Scab-Clan Berserker didn't resolve the two times I cast her. The sideboard was fantastic against Reanimator.

The list was good! Would play again. :laugh:

Congrats on your finish. Glad to hear Flamespeaker is doing work for you. Thanks for your post!
Picking up Berserkers now.

[Zupponn]

4 and 5. Comparing Thundermaw to Stormbreath, or Thunderbreak to Pia Nalaar or Hero is a more apt comparison. Comparing 4 drops and 5 drops is fruitless.

Oops, I meant Thundermaw and not Thunderbreak. I just couldn't think of a really great reason to run Thundermaw over Stormbreath outside of facing Bitterblossom.

[Tammit67]

R5 - Aluren, ID

I thought my Aluren opponent was on Shardless BUG cause I saw Brainstorm and Shardless Agent when I was scouting the room. That cost me game 1 in the semi-finals.

Top 8 - Esper Mentor with :g: splash, 2-1
Top 4 - Aluren, 0-2

I was fortunate that you hadn't led with blood moon in any of our games... and I had drawn the reclamation sage. There is no way the matchup is in my favor with your 8 moons.

Congrats on your finish!

[The Crow's Eye]

Nice job, Ace! Did you ever miss having your Trinispheres?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Nice job, Ace! Did you ever miss having your Trinispheres?
Thank you. :laugh:

In matches played, no.
I missed them greatly when I thought I'd be paired against Belcher in the quarter finals.

[The Crow's Eye]

I'll try some swords and jittes in place of mine. I have to say, I haven't missed Seething Song despite playing two Sarkhan Dragonspeaker and two Stormbreath. They either come out quick enough, or work as Mox fuel while Thunderbreath Regent and Flametongue Kavu hold the fort. Spite Bellows has worked well as a 'goyf killer. I'd forgotten about the 1RR Evoke ability. The singleton Rakka Mar is also still doing work with her elemental tokens.

My list:

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Rakka Mar
3 Flametongue Kavu
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

4 Magma Jet
3 Spitebellows
4 Blood Moon

4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep

SB: 15
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sudden Demise
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Trinisphere

[H]

Thank you. :laugh:

In matches played, no.
I missed them greatly when I thought I'd be paired against Belcher in the quarter finals.

I'm bored of playing my usual BUG decks and locals have resorted to making half their boards dedicated to beat me, so I'm up for throwing a curveball in the next couple weeks. I like the look of Nedleed's/your list, plus it will only cost me about $8 to get the few cards I need. The last time I ran this deck, I had Werewolves in it, :laugh: (although beating people to death with an Instigator Gang sure was funny).

Considering your statement though and knowing that my small local meta can have anywhere from 1-3 ANT/TES decks at a given time, how would you advise on fitting in Trinisphere(s)? Perhaps two out of the board?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Considering your statement though and knowing that my small local meta can have anywhere from 1-3 ANT/TES decks at a given time, how would you advise on fitting in Trinisphere(s)? Perhaps two out of the board?
Yeah, you can probably swap out Boil and either a Sudden Shock or a Sudden Demise to fit in 2 Trinispheres (or both if you want 3). :smile:

[H]

Yeah, you can probably swap out Boil and either a Sudden Shock or a Sudden Demise to fit in 2 Trinispheres (or both if you want 3). :smile:

Sudden Shock is usually to deal with Delvers?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Sudden Shock is usually to deal with Delvers?
Or Mother of Runes or Monastery Mentor.

[GoblinSettler]

Or Mother of Runes or Monastery Mentor.

Or anything with Infect.

[AEMarling]

@The Crow's Eye, the Flametongue Kavu might be what I'm looking for. I find that I sometimes have trouble reaching double red to cast a dragon, and I would like a 4-drop that's 3R. But then, if it's the only creature in play, it has to kill itself.

Is Ensnaring Bridge a poor sideboard choice? I don't like it very much against Sneak and Show. Perhaps Pyroblast would be better. I've also seen Confusion in the Ranks for tech against Sneak and Show, but perhaps it isn't worthwhile to hope.

[H]

Or Mother of Runes or Monastery Mentor.

Makes sense. The only card in the list I am unsure of is Avalanche Rider. Is it there more to take care of troublesome lands, like Gaea's Cradle or manlands? Or simply to take out their only basic(s) once Moon is down?

[ZTurgeon]

@The Crow's Eye, the Flametongue Kavu might be what I'm looking for. I find that I sometimes have trouble reaching double red to cast a dragon, and I would like a 4-drop that's 3R. But then, if it's the only creature in play, it has to kill itself.

Is Ensnaring Bridge a poor sideboard choice? I don't like it very much against Sneak and Show. Perhaps Pyroblast would be better. I've also seen Confusion in the Ranks for tech against Sneak and Show, but perhaps it isn't worthwhile to hope.

Pyroblast isn't really good in these type of decks. You want it in the blue matchups, but with a few exceptions, chalice is one of your best cards in the blue match ups because it takes away their cantrips, leaving decks with 25%+ air.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Is it there more to take care of troublesome lands, like Gaea's Cradle or manlands? Or simply to take out their only basic(s) once Moon is down?
Yes. :wink:


I only had 1 copy going into the tournament I reported on. The second was a Goblin Settler up until 5 minutes before the event (but a friend had a copy to loan me). The only reason I see that he is superior to Settler in the list is Human tribal synergy with Cavern of Souls. Haste did not make up for his echo cost. Being a 2/2 is mostly irrelevant in comparison with being a 1/1. But Human > Goblin in that list.

His use (or more accurately a Stone Rain effect), is like that of duct tape. It fixes many problems. If you have a Moon out, then their Cradle is a Mountain anyway, go for the Forest. If you don't have a Moon out and the Cradle will lead to your death next turn, kill the Cradle. Be wary of feeding DRS in either case. Don't give your opponent outs he otherwise wouldn't have.

[H]

Yes. :wink:


I only had 1 copy going into the tournament I reported on. The second was a Goblin Settler up until 5 minutes before the event (but a friend had a copy to loan me). The only reason I see that he is superior to Settler in the list is Human tribal synergy with Cavern of Souls. Haste did not make up for his echo cost. Being a 2/2 is mostly irrelevant in comparison with being a 1/1. But Human > Goblin in that list.

His use (or more accurately a Stone Rain effect), is like that of duct tape. It fixes many problems. If you have a Moon out, then their Cradle is a Mountain anyway, go for the Forest. If you don't have a Moon out and the Cradle will lead to your death next turn, kill the Cradle. Be wary of feeding DRS in either case. Don't give your opponent outs he otherwise wouldn't have.

Yeah, I can see how being a Human is definitely a bonus there. How did you feel about 4 equipment as opposed to 3?

I might try Trinisphere in place of Singscourger, because there is a noticeable lack of Show and Tell in our small meta. If my Flamesspeakers and Scab-Clans come in soon and I can make it, I'll probably try the list out on the 8th.

[Ace/Homebrew]

How did you feel about 4 equipment as opposed to 3?
I'm not against it. What are you trying to fit in instead? What are the 3 you are choosing?
The equipment make your relatively puny dudes into legitimate threats. Keep that in mind!


I might try Trinisphere in place of Singscourger, because there is a noticeable lack of Show and Tell in our small meta.
Stingscourger is also great against Reanimator! I'm not saying 'don't swap those', just pointing out that the goblin is useful in other matches. :wink:


If my Flamesspeakers and Scab-Clans come in soon and I can make it, I'll probably try the list out on the 8th.
Good luck! I'm interested in hearing how Scab-Clan does for you. I didn't really get to see her in action.

[H]

I'm not against it. What are you trying to fit in instead? What are the 3 you are choosing?
The equipment make your relatively puny dudes into legitimate threats. Keep that in mind!

I was thinking two Swords and a Jitte, possibly. Just trying to make some room for Trinisphere really.


Stingscourger is also great against Reanimator! I'm not saying 'don't swap those', just pointing out that the goblin is useful in other matches. :wink:

Hmm, that's true. Well, in theory though, if they are able to reaimate something, the ship may well have sailed, since if it's Iona we'd be hosed with no chance to cast the Goblin. If it's Griselbrand, they'll get a fresh grip of 7. If it's Elesh, well, that could be bad or neutral, depending on what stage of the game we're in. Stingscourger seems much better if it's off a Show and Tell though. Maybe I'm wrong though, was if often the case that you would get to cast it and have it be good?


Good luck! I'm interested in hearing how Scab-Clan does for you. I didn't really get to see her in action.

At least in theory, she seems like she'd be good in against creature light, spell heavy decks like Storm. Hopefully some Storm decks show and I can see for sure though.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Was if often the case that you would get to cast (Stingscourger) and have it be good?
In the event where I used nedleeds' list, it was the exact situation you described (Show and Tell -> Iona). CotV @ 1 kept him off Reanimate. If you run up against Reanimator, don't forget Phyrexian Revoker can turn off Lotus Petal.

[H]

In the event where I used nedleeds' list, it was the exact situation you described (Show and Tell -> Iona). CotV @ 1 kept him off Reanimate. If you run up against Reanimator, don't forget Phyrexian Revoker can turn off Lotus Petal.

The only person who runs Reanimator locally doesn't run Show and Tell (usually). Then again, I can't recall the last time I even saw him playing.

I feel like the risk of cutting it might just be worth it though. At least Trinisphere isn't exactly a dead card versus them in the worst case, just not very good. Then again, I might take your earlier suggestion and shave a Sudden Shock. In fact, I might even do both, fit three Trini's in. Few things worse than opening a good hand with acceleration but nothing game-breaking to accelerate into. I am liking the Sudden Demises though, because our meta can often have a bunch of GB/X decks.

I'm pretty versed on Revoker though, I spent a year on Death and Taxes and named Lion's Eye Diamond many a time, :laugh:.

[The Crow's Eye]

Question about the history of this deck: It was conceived to defeat Threshold builds, which ran 4 FoW and 4 Daze. The original builds of Dragon Stompy ran Seething Song...what allowed these decks to be successful in their use of Song, given that a Force or Daze against the Song could have shut out the DStompy player's Arc Slogger/Red Akroma?

Also - FTK is a meta selection. You can go smaller, more utility oriented with Revoker. You can follow the example of some other builds and run 2+ Moltensteel Dragon, or if you have Equipment you can go with Prophetic Flamespeaker. Or Rabblemaster if you run TSphere. There's also Rakka Mar, and she's great vs Goyfs.

Oh - running 11 Mountains, I've not had trouble hitting my RR for the four-drops.

[ZEROorDIE]

Took the mono humans list to a 2-1 finish at my local weekly event last week. Changed up the side board a bit(list will follow later, I'm on my phone). I've messed around a bunch with different stompy builds and while the over all power level of the threats in this build is lower, the equipment package is pretty brutal.

Avalanche ride was a champ under blood moon, helping remove their relevant lands(to prevent StP, terminus, decay etc) or utility ones without moon.

Scab clan was OK. Haste is strong in this deck and the renowned effect can get you a bunch of free damage if they don't have a quick.answer. but dies to everything and once they know you're playing equipment they will try to kill any creature you play.

Flamespeaker was a house, but not having haste made for some very poor scenarios where I couldn't actually get any point in with it.

Played Chandra and koth in the side so I had some game against control after they board in all their removal. Chandra was really good for spare cards and pushing through damage when I wanted.

Also played 3 magma jet, 1 fiery confluence main, 2 more confluence side. The card stole me a couple games either wiping the board or providing 6 points at instant speed to end the game.

Food for thought. Matches were aggro loam, grixis delver, miracles, loss was to loam.

[The Crow's Eye]

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19134&iddeck=145439

@Davis Merced - If you're in the house, can you discuss any changes you would make to this lineup? Avaricious Dragon is what I'm curious about...

[Octopusman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYEDUJoWsAEOy-o.png

Ok. So maindeck or sideboard?
Stops natural order, terminus, entreat, kills stuff.

[nonja]

Ok. So maindeck or sideboard?
Stops natural order, terminus, entreat, kills stuff.

Neither. Keep in mind, that this card is uncastable under B-Moon effect.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Neither. Keep in mind, that this card is uncastable under B-Moon effect.
That is my gut reaction as well. Cool card, but can't reliably cast it.

[Captain Hammer]

Quick question:

Can you imprint a colorless card/eldarazi onto Chrome Mox to have it produce colorless mana?

[H]

Quick question:

Can you imprint a colorless card/eldarazi onto Chrome Mox to have it produce colorless mana?

No, colorless is not a color, it's the lack of any color. There are only five colors.

EDIT: Just for clarity, there is no way to make a Chrome Mox tap for colorless by Imprinting anything on it.

[Captain Hammer]

No, colorless is not a color, it's the lack of any color. There are only five colors.

EDIT: Just for clarity, there is no way to make a Chrome Mox tap for colorless by Imprinting anything on it.

Thank you.

I was really hoping with the new errata of colorless mana with the diamond symbol and new land Waste type, this would no longer be the case.

That's a shame.

[H]

Went 2-2 at FNM with the Nedleed's Human build. I lost to Aggro Loam and Grixis Delver, won versus ANT and TES.

First round versus Aggro Loam I have to mull to 5, two hands that only had 1 lands. I keep 2 Ancient Tombs, 2 Chalice, 1 Jitte. I land both Chalices, but I never draw anything besides lands until he has 2 Knights and I lost. Game 2, I keep a turn 1 Chalice on 1, turn 2 Magus. He rips a Mox Diamond, then his one of Kolaghan's Command, and so I get blown out. I thought that I misplayed by putting the Chalice on 1 and not 0, but as it turns out he had a Swords to Plowshares, so I would have been screwed either way.

Second round versus Grixis Delver, turn 1 Chalice for 1 gets Dazed, turn two Blood Moon resolves, but his hand was literally all Red spells and he drew even more Bolts and Swiftspears and I can't stabilize. Game 2 uncounterable Magus on turn 1 or 2 ends it. Game three my turn 1 Chalice on 1 gets Forced, turn 2 I have Flamespeaker (because he found a Cabal Therapy and took the Magus I would have had to play here) and turn 3 I have Sword of Fire and Ice. He double cantrips and finds his one of Pithing Needle. The game drags on but he finds Angler where all I find is lands.

Third round is versus TES. Game one he mulls to 5, plays and LED and passes. I play Chalice on 0 and on 1 and he scoops. Game two Blood Moon gets Duressed. I have turn 1 Revoker, turn 2 SoFaI, turn 3 equip and draw Chalice which I play for 0. He desperation Ad Nauseams but he can't find the Rituals and dies.

Fourth round is versus ANT. He mulls to 5, plays nothing and passes. I play Chalice on 1 and he scoops. Game two he Probes me, cantrips, passes. I play Blood Moon. He plays and land and passes. I play Chalice on 1 and he scoops.

All in all, I the deck seems good. Had my first two opponents not drawn near-perfectly, I could have done a lot better. Can't really say too much though, most games went lock-piece into a concession. I'll probably play it again one day, perhaps with a bit better luck.

[apocolyps6]

I thought that I misplayed by putting the Chalice on 1 and not 0, but as it turns out he had a Swords to Plowshares, so I would have been screwed either way.

That's results based thinking. Loam plays their own chalices and is completely reasonable to expect 0 non-DRS 1drops from them. Both players should be taking out their chalices unless you think you can reliably play your chalice on two. Chalices on 1 and 0 are not necessarily better than Darksteel Relics in the matchup. Of course depending on what lands you saw your opponent might have still been on maverick against which chalice is probably good enough to keep, right?

[H]

That's results based thinking. Loam plays their own chalices and is completely reasonable to expect 0 non-DRS 1drops from them. Both players should be taking out their chalices unless you think you can reliably play your chalice on two. Chalices on 1 and 0 are not necessarily better than Darksteel Relics in the matchup. Of course depending on what lands you saw your opponent might have still been on maverick against which chalice is probably good enough to keep, right?

Well, in theory, yes, but he was not a "traditional" Aggro Loam deck, the fact that he had Swords is kind of evidence of that. In the first game, I saw Karakas and Grove of the Burnwillows, so I figure he had at least Punishing Fires, even when I wasn't sure of what he was playing. He also had a hard time deciding what to Abrupt Decay, between a Jitte and both Calices in game 1, which meant to me that he must have had some one drops or something. In the end though, it was probably still incorrect to have any Chalices in at all.

[Octopusman]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/886/200/283/635878487059720241.png

Good to kill Goyf/Walkers? Seems like a good answer. Thoughts on this?

[Zupponn]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/886/200/283/635878487059720241.png

Good to kill Goyf/Walkers? Seems like a good answer. Thoughts on this?

One thing that does seem interesting is that you could cast this, return a city, and then play a mountain. Then you can replay the city next turn and not have lost it.

[Koby]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/886/200/283/635878487059720241.png

Good to kill Goyf/Walkers? Seems like a good answer. Thoughts on this?

Would rather play Aftershock.

[nedleeds]

Would rather play Dead / Gone, and that card isn't very good.

[Zupponn]

If only we played fetchlands...

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/82/71/200/283/407617.full.jpg

[Octopusman]

Keeping the brewing alive.

I'm trying an experiment. Replacing all Mountains with Snow-Covered Mountains and running a few copies of Glacial Crevasses and single Crucible of Worlds.
Hoping not to die to Elves & Angels as often.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Hoping not to die to Elves & Angels as often.
I'm pretty positive Elves has no way to win through a Fortune Thief.
But it's not that great in any other match...

[Negator77']

I'm pretty positive Elves has no way to win through a Fortune Thief.
But it's not that great in any other match...

Deathrite Shaman and the many creature tutors they have to get it disagree.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Deathrite Shaman and the many creature tutors they have to get it disagree.
Ahhh that rascal!

[Ace/Homebrew]

Had some extra credit with SCG, so I picked up the final piece I needed (Shattering Spree).
Here is Koby's GP SeaTac list in foil:

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/AceHomebrew/creatures.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/AceHomebrew/others.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/AceHomebrew/lands.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/AceHomebrew/mountains.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/AceHomebrew/sideboard.jpg

I had to position the cards around the Brainstorm lady's face in order to prevent glare. :rolleyes:

I completed my foil playset of Moggcatcher, so that's cool.
Still some foil equipment away from being able to post nedleed's list in foil.

[Blastoderm]

Had some extra credit with SCG, so I picked up the final piece I needed (Shattering Spree).
Here is Koby's GP SeaTac list in foil:

...

I had to position the cards around the Brainstorm lady's face in order to prevent glare. :rolleyes:

I completed my foil playset of Moggcatcher, so that's cool.
Still some foil equipment away from being able to post nedleed's list in foil.

Nice! It's a shame they won't print City of Traitors as an expedition because it's on the reserved list. However, the art on the card is fantastic so it won't really be an upgrade anyway.

[Zupponn]

Love the foil loop mountains. It's too bad that there's no Pyrokinesis in foil.

[movingtonewao]

Nice! It's a shame they won't print City of Traitors as an expedition because it's on the reserved list. However, the art on the card is fantastic so it won't really be an upgrade anyway.

not sure how this works, but reserved list cards can be printed as judge foils BUT not expeditions?

There is city of traitors in foil though, but they are worth a ridiculous amount of money.

[wasabizod]

I've been exploring this but with more of an artifact bend, employing all three lock pieces (Chalice, Moon, and Bridge) and using Hangarback Walker + Pia and Kiran Nalaar to come through, along with Shrapnel Blast to use up extra artifacts. It's been okay in testing but I haven't taken it to an event yet. I'm hoping to take it to my weekly legacy event on Tuesday. Any suggestions from you more experienced folk?

Creatures (17)
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Spellskite

Instants (7)
4 Shrapnel Blast
3 Desperate Ritual

Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon

Artifacts (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ensnaring Bridge

Lands (20)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Mountain

[Ace/Homebrew]

Any suggestions from you more experienced folk?
I count 20 red cards (4 of which also want to be exiled to produce :r:). I believe you typically want 26-28 red cards to make sure you can reliably use your Chrome Mox.

[wasabizod]

I count 20 red cards (4 of which also want to be exiled to produce :r:). I believe you typically want 26-28 red cards to make sure you can reliably use your Chrome Mox.

That makes sense. I definitely feel a bit blocked sometimes. Would I be better off running Mox Diamond and 2 more lands?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Would I be better off running Mox Diamond and 2 more lands?
I think that would help you to reliably cast your spells, although I believe it is going to make you a turn slower a non-zero number of times. Someone here had a list using Diamond's over Chrome Moxen and used 24 lands to mitigate the 'pitch-a-land' requirement. Unfortunately I do not have any experience using Diamonds, so I cannot say with confidence. Perhaps someone else can comment on how many lands are needed to make Mox Diamond work at peak efficiency?

[wasabizod]

That's helpful, thanks!

As an alternative approach, would you suggest moving Revokers and something else to the Sideboard to make more room for red cards?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Creatures (17)
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Spellskite

Instants (7)
4 Shrapnel Blast
3 Desperate Ritual

Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon

Artifacts (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ensnaring Bridge

Lands (20)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Mountain

I'd say you could replace the Spellskites for the full set of Magus of the Moon. You are also heavy 1 Mountain (if you're sticking with the Chrome Moxen). If the goal is to hide behind a Bridge, I've always liked a singleton Jaya Ballard to turn dead cards into Incinerates.

I don't understand what the rituals are doing for you. Our mana should get us to 3 by itself. Replacing those doesn't solve the red-card issue though.

If you are swapping to Mox Diamonds, I'd keep your extra Mountain and replace the Rituals with more Mountains to get to 23. I think this is more of the direction you want to go in really. :wink:


Also, a tip on sideboarding with Chrome Mox: Moving artifacts like Revoker to the board is only helpful if the cards you are replacing games 2 and 3 are also artifacts. You really need to be conscience of your red count with that card...

[wasabizod]

Thanks Ace.

I could see replacing Rituals for Chandra, Pyromaster (same with Revoker). That might let me keep the Chrome Mox (if I add 1 more Magus - since I only have 3 so far). I'm taking this for a spin tonight, so I'll get more feedback that way (but anything you can share in the meantime is helpful).

Speaking of mountains, I'm also interested in swapping in some Darksteel Citadel (wasteland proof and is artifact fodder). I know I'm taking this in a different direction, but really appreciate the feedback.

Here's an update:

Land (21)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
9x Mountain

Artifact (17)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Lotus Petal
2x Trinisphere

Creature (16)
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Spellskite

Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon

Planeswalker (2)
2x Koth of the Hammer

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm taking this for a spin tonight, so I'll get more feedback that way.
So how'd it go?



On an unrelated note, Starcity has an Open in Philly next weekend and it's for Legacy. :cool:
I slapped this together last night. Curious to hear what the hivemind thinks!

Mana
4 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Dudes
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4 Magus of the Moon

Others
2 Boom // Bust
3 Stone Rain
3 Magma Jet
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Stingscourger
2 Shattering Spree
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Goblin Settler
3 Trinisphere
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Murderous Redcap

I should be able to get some testing in tomorrow and next Wednesday night.

[ZTurgeon]

So how'd it go?



On an unrelated note, Starcity has an Open in Philly next weekend and it's for Legacy. :cool:
I slapped this together last night. Curious to hear what the hivemind thinks!

Mana
4 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Dudes
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4 Magus of the Moon

Others
2 Boom // Bust
3 Stone Rain
3 Magma Jet
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Stingscourger
2 Shattering Spree
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Goblin Settler
3 Trinisphere
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Murderous Redcap

I should be able to get some testing in tomorrow and next Wednesday night.


I think the idea is more cute than good. Running the fetches with no splash just means you get to power up your opponent's deathrite shamans.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I think the idea is more cute than good. Running the fetches with no splash just means you get to power up your opponent's deathrite shamans.
That is extremely possible (being more cute than good), but the fetches were to make Boom // Bust one-sided. Feeding DRS is a legitimate concern, but theoretically Settler, Stone Rain, and CoT are already doing that.

Dark-Dwellers gives the option to use the Bust side if I have a favorable board position and nuking all the lands will ensure I keep it.

[wasabizod]

So how'd it go?

Pretty good. My sideboard was fairly mixed:
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Boil
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Roast
3 Shattering Spree
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinispher

Went 2-0 versus Infect, 2-1 versus Miracles, and 2-1 versus Merfolk.

There were a couple hands I had to mulligan because I only could do 1 thing and then durdle, and it wasn't always clear whether chalice, moon, or trinisphere was the right T1 play. Spellskite is a real beating for Infect. I think the deck needs a bit more power, which makes me curious about Shrapnel blast in the sideboard, or even hangarback, but it's just a little low on juice. I built it on MTGO so I can invest more in testing.

[Octopusman]

That is extremely possible (being more cute than good), but the fetches were to make Boom // Bust one-sided. Feeding DRS is a legitimate concern, but theoretically Settler, Stone Rain, and CoT are already doing that.

Dark-Dwellers gives the option to use the Bust side if I have a favorable board position and nuking all the lands will ensure I keep it.

I'm tired but are you saying you target your fetch and then activate it with Boom on the stack?

I've been dying to abuse songs with dark-dwellers but haven't gotten around to it yet. Can't wait to hear your report.

[caprino]

what do you think of this list came second in the Grand Prix Seattle-Tacoma 2015 - Undefeated Day 1


Creatures [23]
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Goblin Settler
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher

Enchantments [4]
4 Blood Moon

Artifacts [12]
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Lands [21]
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

side
1 Goblin Settler
1 Trinisphere
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Koth of the Hammer
2 Boil
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Sudden Shock

[sirgubster9]

This list looks really sweet and I really want to see it in action, but i haven't been able to find any videos of it. Do you guys know of any place to check this list (or at least some moggcatcher list) out to see how well all the different combos work?

[wasabizod]

what do you think of this list came second in the Grand Prix Seattle-Tacoma 2015 - Undefeated Day 1


Creatures [23]
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Goblin Settler
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher

Enchantments [4]
4 Blood Moon

Artifacts [12]
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Lands [21]
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

side
1 Goblin Settler
1 Trinisphere
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Koth of the Hammer
2 Boil
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Sudden Shock

Where did you see that? I can't find it on the Top 32 Decklists (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/top-32-decklist-2015-11-08).

Also, took this for a spin last night on MTGO after feeling like my list was a little lackluster:

Land (21)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
3x Wasteland

Artifact (14)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
2x Lotus Petal
2x Sword of War and Peace
2x Umezawa's Jitte

Creature (21)
3x Avalanche Riders
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Thunderbreak Regent

Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon

Umezawa's Jitte on Flamespeaker is just a beating. T1 Rabblemaster is also a huge beating. I beat dredge 2-0, Storm 2-1, and then went 1-1 with Reanimator before MTGO crapped out on me and I decided to sleep. Really loving this archetype.

[caprino]

Where did you see that? I can't find it on the Top 32 Decklists (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/top-32-decklist-2015-11-08).

Also, took this for a spin last night on MTGO after feeling like my list was a little lackluster:

Land (21)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
3x Wasteland

Artifact (14)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
2x Lotus Petal
2x Sword of War and Peace
2x Umezawa's Jitte

Creature (21)
3x Avalanche Riders
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Thunderbreak Regent

Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon

Umezawa's Jitte on Flamespeaker is just a beating. T1 Rabblemaster is also a huge beating. I beat dredge 2-0, Storm 2-1, and then went 1-1 with Reanimator before MTGO crapped out on me and I decided to sleep. Really loving this archetype.

day 1 tc deck

[Ace/Homebrew]

Are you saying you target your fetch and then activate it with Boom on the stack?
Correct! :wink:

There are some decks in Modern that have been doing it lately:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19538&iddeck=148718
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19533&iddeck=148625
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19462&iddeck=148063

[caprino]

what do you think of this list came second in the Grand Prix Seattle-Tacoma 2015 - Undefeated Day 1


Creatures [23]
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Goblin Settler
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher

Enchantments [4]
4 Blood Moon

Artifacts [12]
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Lands [21]
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

side
1 Goblin Settler
1 Trinisphere
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Koth of the Hammer
2 Boil
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Sudden Shock

I thought I'd replace the 4 sudden shock with 3 sudden demise and 1 Anarchy...what do you think?

[nosfex]

Hey there!
Just bringing a small report from Argentina to you guys!
Me and a friend help organize Legacy & Modern tournaments over here (in Buenos Aires), in which we give out staples as prizes (ranging from Counterbalance to Duals and everything in betwe:b:en for Legacy, and appropriate staples for Modern, like Blood Moon, Cryptic Command, etc). Anyhow, enough with the introductions, here is my list:


Lands (18)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain

Creatures (22)
4x Thunderbreak Regent
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
2x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Simian Spirit Guide

Enchantments(3)
3x Blood Moon

Artifacts(12)
2x Coercive Portal
4x Chrome Mox
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Chalice of the Void

Planeswalkers(5)
1x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
3x Koth of the Hammer

Sideboard(15)
3x Trinisphere
2x Faerie Macabre
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Staff of Nin
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Volcanic Fallout
1x Magma Jet
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Ensnaring Bridge


REPORT

Vs BUGStill:

G1: I win the roll, have a T1 moon effect, and he crop rotates for a basic forest, and draws a swamp. My moon gets decayed, but I keep drawing threats and walkers that survive his 2 consecutive Pernicious Deeds. Sarkhan takes the game, and we move forward to G2.
G2: Moon effect on T1. Follow up is a Rabblemaster, he concedes.

Vs Reanimator:
G1: I lose the roll, and he sets up his hand for a T2 Iona, which I cannot beat.
G2: I set up the lock, but he is able to Show and Tell an Elesh Norn which takes out my small beaters and I cannot race him.

Vs Miracles:
G1: I win the roll, and I cast a T1 chalice with a following T2 Chalice on 2. We have a few interactions until he is able to destroy my Chalice on 1 with a Council's Judgement. He draws blanks and we go to G2.
G2: Early moon and he has only 1 island in play. I resolve a Flamespeaker with a Jitte on the board and he goes for the handshake.

Vs 4c Punishing Fire (:w::b::r::g:):
G1: He starts with 3 Mox Diamond, 3 Lands, and a Sylvan Library, and blows me out of the water with some awesome draws on his side.
G2: I resolve multiple moons, and a Koth that sticks to get the game with the 4/4 all mighty mountain.
G3: I mulligan to 6 and my hand is pretty subpar. He wins.

Vs White Eldrazi:
G1: Early moon and some beaters take the game
G2: He puts the pressure early on and I stabilize with moons and the bridge, but he swarms the board while I still look for Koth and he eventually draws 2 disenchants to take down the bridge and the moon. I get smashed for about 10 million damage.
G3: I get an early moon and a Regent. We trade some damage, and he swings for 15, leaving me in 1. I have lethal on board and he realizes he did some awful math.

TOP 8

Vs Reanimator (Same from round 2):
G1: I'm on the draw, he has the entomb for Iona and fires it in response to my Chalice. I die.
G2: I go, we fight for some locks and stuff, but he basically has no creature, and goes for a Regent that got countered with his Animate Dead. He then procedes to play Teferi's Realm and gets punished for it. (I kept phasing the enchantments). I eventually draw a Stormbreath which closes the game going monstrous.
G3: He starts, but his hand is not great, and I can resolve a Regent, he resolves a Show and Tell and reveals an Elesh Norn, and I show a Hellkite. My clock is enough to put him away.

Vs Grixis Delver:
G1: On the draw, he resolves a Deathrite, I slam a Magus of the Moon but he has some great sequencing the following turn and Bolts it, with a Young Pyro on the board. I get rekt'd.
G2: He counters my initial stuff, and resolves a Young Pyro. I topdeck a Volcanic Fallout and hold out after the attack to wait and see if he slams something else. He plays some stuff, and ends up playing the 2nd Pyro. BEST. VOLCANIC. FALLOUT. EVER. I draw a few more lock pieces and he dies.
G3: I start with a T1 Magus and he is answerless. I follow up with a Sword of Fire and Ice while he tries to develop a board. GG.

Vs Lands:
G1: I resolve multiple moons but he has a perfect hand of Punishing + Krosan Grip. I get killed by a Marit Lage.
G2: He plays a seismic assault and blows out my Magus+Phyrexian Revoker naming Mox Diamond. The spoils go for the victor.

For my troubles, I got a Snapcaster Mage which I traded for a B/W Fetch and store Credit.

[wasabizod]

I'm newish to this archetype, but why do we have such an emphasis on playing goblins? It seems like goblins themselves are much better set up to do this with Aether Vial. I can see how things can kind of cascade upwards in terms of number of threats on the board, but isn't our hope to put a lock in place and then beat them with better threats?

I also play merfolk so I'm not against the swarm approach, but I've been pretty successful in the league recently with a bridge/chalice/moon approach and Koth, Rabblemaster, and Pia and Kiran.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ace/Homebrew]

@ nosfex - Nice job! Thanks for the report. :laugh:


I'm newish to this archetype, but why do we have such an emphasis on playing goblins?
We don't. Goblins in Dragon Stompy pretty much started when Blastoderm added Moggcatcher and 3 Siege-Gang Commander to an otherwise Goblinless list. Then Goblin Rabblemaster was printed and more and more people adopted Moggcatcher as a strategy.


It seems like goblins themselves are much better set up to do this with Aether Vial.
Vial Goblins has an abysmal matchup against combo (in general). The decks are pretty much apples and oranges for comparison's sake.



I wouldn't be surprised if Innistrad 2: The Second One had a 3-drop werewolf that made Werewolf Stompy worth exploring again...

[wasabizod]

Got it. That makes a lot of sense. I am hoping to go to GP Columbus with this deck so I'm been testing a lot online and will be taking it the LGS weekly.

I'm running a bridge/planes walker strategy right now, which has been good. Lots of people concede to two of the three lock pieces, but I'm trying to figure out what should be in the board versus main deck.

I had toyed with a hangar back/shrapnel blast version, but it felt very "win more" so I'm not sure what the creature suite should be.

Anyone else going to the GP or want to get some testing in on MTGO?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ace/Homebrew]

I had toyed with a hangar back/shrapnel blast version, but it felt very "win more" so I'm not sure what the creature suite should be.
Here are Ensnaring Bridge / Planeswalker lists from a while back:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15415&iddeck=114568
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13668&iddeck=100433

Man, I'd love to get to use Forcefield... :frown:

[Zupponn]

Hangarback seems really bad in a format where the premier removal is STP and Terminus.

I'm also wondering if equipment is really worth running at the moment with all of the control decks running around. I seems like it's easy to punish us when we play a non-threat for a turn.

[wasabizod]

Yeah, Hangarback is not ideal, but those decks look similar to what I'm running. Forcefield would be super interesting, may try for some (heyyyyyy ebay).

I need to pick up some Jaya Ballards and give her a shot. Seems like a great way to cycle your hand. I find Koth much better than Chandra, though I guess if I ran Slagstorm or Magma Jet, her ultimate would work.

What's the minimum amount of lands? I'm running Chrome Mox and Lotus Petal, which may be overkill.

Also, how do you deal with a resolved Elesh Norn? :-( Any good artifacts for that?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I find Koth much better than Chandra, though I guess if I ran Slagstorm or Magma Jet, her ultimate would work.
I lived the dream and ultimated Chandra, Pyromaster into Fiery Confluence once or twice. But I've wiffed with her just as many times... :rolleyes:

[wasabizod]

I lived the dream and ultimated Chandra, Pyromaster into Fiery Confluence once or twice. But I've wiffed with her just as many times... :rolleyes:

How well did Fiery Confluence work in the deck?

[Ace/Homebrew]

How well did Fiery Confluence work in the deck?
It was okay. It's a great sideboard card. I had thrown together a list with Qal Sisma Behemoth, Thunderbreak Regent, and Koth/Chandra. I didn't really tune the list, just threw it together for a weekly to see how good Fiery Confluence is.

I think if you build with minimal creatures or only use creatures with big butts, your sideboard should contain a copy or two. I'm on a Moggcatcher kick right now though and Desert Sandstorm doesn't play well with a team of 1/1s...

[ZTurgeon]

I'm newish to this archetype, but why do we have such an emphasis on playing goblins? It seems like goblins themselves are much better set up to do this with Aether Vial. I can see how things can kind of cascade upwards in terms of number of threats on the board, but isn't our hope to put a lock in place and then beat them with better threats?

I also play merfolk so I'm not against the swarm approach, but I've been pretty successful in the league recently with a bridge/chalice/moon approach and Koth, Rabblemaster, and Pia and Kiran.



It isn't about goblins, so much as it is about Moggcatcher. An unawnsered Moggcatcher will beat pretty much anything. While the other cards are all threats, Moggcatcher is both the threat and the answer.

If you need to deal with a big thing, get Stingscourger.
If you need to deal with a little thing, get Redcap.
If you need to block multiple things, get SGC.
If you need to Kill quickly, get Rabblemaster.
If you need to pump the team, get Boartusk.
If you need to reestablish a blood moon or trinisphere lock, get Settler.
If you need to take care of an artifact, get Scrapper.
If you need to do any of it again, get Kiki.

There are some weirder Sideboard cards as well, but basically, it is really hard to lose with an unanswered Moggcatcher on board, even if you are behind. The ability to get Seige Gang, and then Kiki to keep pumping out chump blockers simply overtakes most games.

Additionally, Moggcatcher kills extremely fast. Let's say you have a blood moon lock on and are looking to finish the game quickly before they draw out of it. You have a moggcatcher on turn 3. On turn 4, you get a rabblemaster and hit them for 1. Then the next turn you get a kiki-jiki and hit them for 15. That is a hell of a clock from your utility tutor package.

[wasabizod]

I lived the dream and ultimated Chandra, Pyromaster into Fiery Confluence once or twice. But I've wiffed with her just as many times... :rolleyes:


It isn't about goblins, so much as it is about Moggcatcher. An unawnsered Moggcatcher will beat pretty much anything. While the other cards are all threats, Moggcatcher is both the threat and the answer.

If you need to deal with a big thing, get Stingscourger.
If you need to deal with a little thing, get Redcap.
If you need to block multiple things, get SGC.
If you need to Kill quickly, get Rabblemaster.
If you need to pump the team, get Boartusk.
If you need to reestablish a blood moon or trinisphere lock, get Settler.
If you need to take care of an artifact, get Scrapper.
If you need to do any of it again, get Kiki.

There are some weirder Sideboard cards as well, but basically, it is really hard to lose with an unanswered Moggcatcher on board, even if you are behind. The ability to get Seige Gang, and then Kiki to keep pumping out chump blockers simply overtakes most games.

Additionally, Moggcatcher kills extremely fast. Let's say you have a blood moon lock on and are looking to finish the game quickly before they draw out of it. You have a moggcatcher on turn 3. On turn 4, you get a rabblemaster and hit them for 1. Then the next turn you get a kiki-jiki and hit them for 15. That is a hell of a clock from your utility tutor package.

ZTurgeon - thanks for that. I realized Moggcatcher was a bit of a utility but hadn't had it explained like that before.

I'm not on the goblins kick yet, but I'd love some feedback about sideboarding from all of you for tonight's weekly legacy event. Here’s the average meta for the past few weeks:

Death and Taxes
Shardless BUG
Grixis Delver
Eldrazi
Pox
Storm
RUG Delver
Infect
Hawk rack
Goblins
Dredge
Aluren
Miracles
Affinity


We usually have 20+ people show up, so it can be a mixed bag.

Here's what I was planning to run:

1x Batterskull
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Lotus Petal
2x Trinisphere
4x Blood Moon

3x Koth of the Hammer
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Spellskite

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
7x Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3x Boil
2x Dismember
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Shattering Spree
3x Thunderbreak Regent
4x Tormod's Crypt

This was pulled from what I've been playing on MTGO. I also have Batterskull (3), Sword of War and Peace (2), Umezawa's Jitte (2) and other swords. I may try running a Jitte as well or instead of the Batterskull since it allows me to sneak under the Bridge with my thopters and goblins, but would love feedback. I'd been running 21 lands up until recently, so I added a third Koth and the equipment.

[ZTurgeon]

ZTurgeon - thanks for that. I realized Moggcatcher was a bit of a utility but hadn't had it explained like that before.

I'm not on the goblins kick yet, but I'd love some feedback about sideboarding from all of you for tonight's weekly legacy event. Here’s the average meta for the past few weeks:

Death and Taxes
Shardless BUG
Grixis Delver
Eldrazi
Pox
Storm
RUG Delver
Infect
Hawk rack
Goblins
Dredge
Aluren
Miracles
Affinity


We usually have 20+ people show up, so it can be a mixed bag.

Here's what I was planning to run:

1x Batterskull
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Lotus Petal
2x Trinisphere
4x Blood Moon

3x Koth of the Hammer
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Spellskite

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
7x Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3x Boil
2x Dismember
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Shattering Spree
3x Thunderbreak Regent
4x Tormod's Crypt

This was pulled from what I've been playing on MTGO. I also have Batterskull (3), Sword of War and Peace (2), Umezawa's Jitte (2) and other swords. I may try running a Jitte as well or instead of the Batterskull since it allows me to sneak under the Bridge with my thopters and goblins, but would love feedback. I'd been running 21 lands up until recently, so I added a third Koth and the equipment.


You have so much mana. You are looking at 33 mana sources with this deck, which is way more than you need. Normally you are looking at 20-21 land, 4 guides and 3-4 mox. You have all of those maxxed, and have 4 petals on top of that. You could easily sneak in a few more lock peices or threats and still play them all consistently.

[Koby]

ZTurgeon - thanks for that. I realized Moggcatcher was a bit of a utility but hadn't had it explained like that before.

4x Great Furnace


The synergy with Pia & Kiren is not worth the possibility of being more vulnerable to Wasteland prior to Blood Moon, or generic artifact destruction.

[ZTurgeon]

The synergy with Pia & Kiren is not worth the possibility of being more vulnerable to Wasteland prior to Blood Moon, or generic artifact destruction.

Agreed. I can only see running those if you are in a full artifact package that uses them, perhaps with Daretti as well.

But making yourself worse for a 3 mana shock from a 3-of doesn't seems worth it.

[ZEROorDIE]

What's the minimum amount of lands? I'm running Chrome Mox and Lotus Petal, which may be overkill.

Also, how do you deal with a resolved Elesh Norn? :-( Any good artifacts for that?

20-21 lands, 7-8 acceleration

Re elesh norn- I just pick my cards

Edit: I was thinking of Iona, although I don't think this deck really has an answer to elesh Norn either.



How well did Fiery Confluence work in the deck?

Confluence was amazing for me. Played 1 main 2 in the board. So much utility. I played it in the mono humans build. Can also just be A strictly better lava axe to end games if they start to break through your lock before you've got em dead.

[wasabizod]

20-21 lands, 7-8 acceleration

Re elesh norn- I just pick my cards

Edit: I was thinking of Iona, although I don't think this deck really has an answer to elesh Norn either.



Confluence was amazing for me. Played 1 main 2 in the board. So much utility. I played it in the mono humans build. Can also just be A strictly better lava axe to end games if they start to break through your lock before you've got em dead.

I meant Iona, you're right. Iona makes me feel like the artifact route is better if Reanimator is strong in my meta.

Koby, ZEROorDIE, and ZTurgeon - Many thanks.

So, a few questions -> Should I run mountains or Cavern of Souls in place of the Furnaces?

If I remove the petals, do I go for more lock pieces, or is 4 Moon, 4 Chalice, 3 Bridge, 2 Trinishphere enough? I could see adding mountains, Prophetic Flamespeakers and some swords/jittes in place of the P&K package. That may allow me to sneak under the bridge. Or, I could add maindeck Phyrexian Revoker, Scuttling Doom Engine, and Shrapnel Blast and go the artifact route.

The Flamespeaker/Sword route seems easier and stronger, so maybe I'll give that a run tonight.

Really appreciating all the feedback.

[caprino]

It isn't about goblins, so much as it is about Moggcatcher. An unawnsered Moggcatcher will beat pretty much anything. While the other cards are all threats, Moggcatcher is both the threat and the answer.

If you need to deal with a big thing, get Stingscourger.
If you need to deal with a little thing, get Redcap.
If you need to block multiple things, get SGC.
If you need to Kill quickly, get Rabblemaster.
If you need to pump the team, get Boartusk.
If you need to reestablish a blood moon or trinisphere lock, get Settler.
If you need to take care of an artifact, get Scrapper.
If you need to do any of it again, get Kiki.

There are some weirder Sideboard cards as well, but basically, it is really hard to lose with an unanswered Moggcatcher on board, even if you are behind. The ability to get Seige Gang, and then Kiki to keep pumping out chump blockers simply overtakes most games.

Additionally, Moggcatcher kills extremely fast. Let's say you have a blood moon lock on and are looking to finish the game quickly before they draw out of it. You have a moggcatcher on turn 3. On turn 4, you get a rabblemaster and hit them for 1. Then the next turn you get a kiki-jiki and hit them for 15. That is a hell of a clock from your utility tutor package.

in the lists of recommended moggcatcher which side the destination that is currently located?

[Ace/Homebrew]

in the lists of recommended moggcatcher which side the destination that is currently located?
Can you ask again using different words? Your sentence did not make any sense.

[caprino]

Can you ask again using different words? Your sentence did not make any sense.

I meant a sample side

[Ace/Homebrew]

I meant a sample side
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18766&iddeck=142318

1 Goblin Settler
1 Trinisphere
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Koth of the Hammer
2 Boil
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Sudden Shock

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18598&iddeck=140868

3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sudden Demise
1 Stingscourger
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Pillage
2 Boil
2 Batterskull
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18298&iddeck=138319

1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Boil
4 Red Elemental Blast
1 Boiling Seas
1 Shatterstorm

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18283&iddeck=138205

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Anarchy
2 Boil
2 Bonfire of the Damned

[wasabizod]

I've been running the deck through a lot of open play on MTGO and it's been very successful so far. Rabblemaster is really worth his weight in gold. I've beaten Miracles, Eldrazi, Burn, Delver, Merfolk, and Elves, but keep running into trouble with Goblins and Reanimator.

How do you all tend to deal with Goblins? Anger of the Gods? I feel like I'm always behind in that matchup. Reanimator also feels like a challenge since chalice doesn't stop Exhume and they typically run swamps which gets around blood moon. Bridge can help, but Iona is a fierce overlord.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Koby]

I've been running the deck through a lot of open play on MTGO and it's been very successful so far. Rabblemaster is really worth his weight in gold. I've beaten Miracles, Eldrazi, Burn, Delver, Merfolk, and Elves, but keep running into trouble with Goblins and Reanimator.

How do you all tend to deal with Goblins? Anger of the Gods? I feel like I'm always behind in that matchup. Reanimator also feels like a challenge since chalice doesn't stop Exhume and they typically run swamps which gets around blood moon. Bridge can help, but Iona is a fierce overlord.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Goblin Pyromancer :)
Its hard to keep up with Ringleaders and hasty cost reductors tho. Caltrops perhaps?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I went 5-4 at the SCG Open yesterday. I built with the Eldrazi menace in mind. Of course the closest I came to playing it was sitting next to them...

10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge

3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Magma Jet
2 Sudden Shock
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

R1 - Tin Fins, 2-1
R2 - Rw Painter, 0-2
R3 - 12 Post, 2-0
R4 - RUG Delver, 2-1
R5 - Shardless BUG, 1-2
R6 - Death & Taxes, 1-2
R7 - The Gate, 2-0
R8 - 2-0, Something with Dark Depths, Sword of the Meek, Ensnaring Bridge, Chalice of the Void, Dimir Signet, Bayou
R9 - Burn, 1-2

It was shit luck getting paired against Painter round 2. My games against Shardless and D&T were close. I had outs, just couldn't get them in time. My last match against Burn was tough. Ancient Tomb is brutal for us there.

Fiery Confluence is an awesome card!

[Jelmerz77]

Hi Ace / Homebrew

Did you ever test that land destruction goblins version?

Regards,

Jelmer

[Ace/Homebrew]

Did you ever test that land destruction goblins version?
Not thoroughly... I got one weekly in and did poorly. I concluded that the fetchlands are too cute like ZTurgeon said. I'm going to continue experimenting with Boom // Bust though!

[wasabizod]

I went 5-4 at the SCG Open yesterday. I built with the Eldrazi menace in mind. Of course the closest I came to playing it was sitting next to them...

10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge

3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Magma Jet
2 Sudden Shock
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

R1 - Tin Fins, 2-1
R2 - Rw Painter, 0-2
R3 - 12 Post, 2-0
R4 - RUG Delver, 2-1
R5 - Shardless BUG, 1-2
R6 - Death & Taxes, 1-2
R7 - The Gate, 2-0
R8 - 2-0, Something with Dark Depths, Sword of the Meek, Ensnaring Bridge, Chalice of the Void, Dimir Signet, Bayou
R9 - Burn, 1-2

It was shit luck getting paired against Painter round 2. My games against Shardless and D&T were close. I had outs, just couldn't get them in time. My last match against Burn was tough. Ancient Tomb is brutal for us there.

Fiery Confluence is an awesome card!

Thanks for sharing! I'd love to know what you had in your sideboard? What kinds of changes would you make going forward? How was the split of Magma Jet and Sudden Shock?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Thanks for sharing! I'd love to know what you had in your sideboard? What kinds of changes would you make going forward? How was the split of Magma Jet and Sudden Shock?
Whoops!

4 Trinisphere
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Sulfur Elemental
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt

The Shocks weren't bad. I'd have played 6 Jets if I could... Scry 2 is a huge help. I'd love to feel like I have a fighting chance against D&T. I've always struggled against that deck.

[wasabizod]

Awesome!

Also, how did Jaya perform for you?

[Ace/Homebrew]

How did Jaya perform for you?
She was fine. Killed Jace, Vryn's Prodigy against Shardless. Otherwise she attacked once or twice and Incinerated a few times. I didn't see her every game and sometimes she was just a red card for Chrome Mox.

The Rabblemasters in the board should have won me my second game against Painter... I swapped them for Bridges and kept a 7 of Mountain, SSG, SSG, SSG, Rabble, Rabble, red card...

Played Rabble turn 1, swung for 1.
Opponent plays Painter's Servant and names red.
Okay, that's unusual...

I untap and draw another Mountain. Sweet! 2nd Rabblemaster, move to combat!
"Wait!" my opponent says... "Pyrokinesis removing Wooded Foothills."

*sigh*

[Ace/Homebrew]

My apologies for the double post.


What does the hivemind think we would have to do to support Thought-Knot Seer in the deck? I was trying to hybridize the Eldrazi deck with Blood Moon Stompy, but we really do not want lands like Eye of Ugin or Eldrazi Temple. If we don't want those, then we really cannot support many of the Eldrazi creatures. Thought-Knot is the only one that really warrants inclusion based on P/T stats and ETB ability.

To help with the thought experiment, here's a sample list:

9 Mountain
2 Wastes
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
2 Serum Powder

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Magma Jet
4 Koth of the Hammer
3 Fiery Confluence

Eh?
We get the possibility of Turn 1 - CotV@1, Turn 2 - TKS which is probably the strongest opener from Eldrazi Stompy, but we can still reliably land Blood Moon turn 1.
Alternatives to Serum Powder could be Talisman of Impulse or Talisman of Indulgence.

[wasabizod]

That's an interesting thought experiment, though after taking your open list for some spins online, I think I prefer the spell route to the creature route given that we're running 4 ensnaring bridges. I got a chance to play against death and taxes, a few versions of delver, stone blade, and a few rogue decks. Fiery confluence is an incredible card that has saved me in almost every situation. Once you get the bridges down being able to leverage your spells and planeswalker's feels like a much more powerful and resilient approach.


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[wasabizod]

(Sorry for the double post.)

I spent a bit more time spinning this one last night and ran into trouble with Elves (probably because I don't have a Grafdigger's Cage on MTGO), Pox, and Death and Taxes. I was able to hold off Death and Taxes for a while thanks to Chalice and Null Rod, but Flickerwisp is quite a pain.

What's our general plan for Elves? I try to kill off Heritage Druid and lock them out of 1cc, but basically just pray for double bridge to get around Reclamation Sage.

Would love any guidance.

[ZTurgeon]

(Sorry for the double post.)

I spent a bit more time spinning this one last night and ran into trouble with Elves (probably because I don't have a Grafdigger's Cage on MTGO), Pox, and Death and Taxes. I was able to hold off Death and Taxes for a while thanks to Chalice and Null Rod, but Flickerwisp is quite a pain.

What's our general plan for Elves? I try to kill off Heritage Druid and lock them out of 1cc, but basically just pray for double bridge to get around Reclamation Sage.

Would love any guidance.

...Do anything?

They struggle to beat a chalice, a moon effect, or a trinisphere. Same with Bridge and any creature engine.


I think your issue is that if you are playing a bunch of spells, you aren't killing them and giving them time to break free. Seriously, any turn 1 lock peice and then a Rabble/Moggcatcher/Pia and Kiren is normally enough to get the whole job done.

[Ace/Homebrew]

What's our general plan for Elves? I try to kill off Heritage Druid and lock them out of 1cc, but basically just pray for double bridge to get around Reclamation Sage.
Trinisphere is generally very good. Probably better than Ensnaring Bridge. Relying on Bridge (even multiple copies) can be dangerous because Wirewood Symbiote lets them reuse Reclamation Sage.
Unfortunately Green Sun's Zenith will always be a live card for them as long as they can generate :g:.

I've found Moggcatcher lists are actually often the strongest build against Elves. They are mostly Abrupt Decay resistant and good at spamming the board with dudes.


I think your issue is that if you are playing a bunch of spells, you aren't killing them and giving them time to break free. Seriously, any turn 1 lock peice and then a Rabble/Moggcatcher/Pia and Kiren is normally enough to get the whole job done.
That's sort of the issue, wasabizod is running a planeswalker control shell I listed previously rather than the aggro creature list you prefer.

Part of catching the format with its pants down is knowing what the meta will look like. Different builds of Blood Moon Stompy will have different *best* matchups.
Elves is a tougher matchup with this build because it doesn't win quickly and Elves has the tools to eventually break our locks if we don't capitalize on them fast.

[wasabizod]

Yeah, I've definitely been experimenting between the creature/equipment build and the build Ace listed above. I've got the Moggcatcher cards coming, so I'll give that a spin too. I really love Fiery Confluence in the main because it can deal with so much. I moved Trinisphere to the side, but I think I'd rather play 1-2 of those than a 4th bridge. I also miss having Rabblemaster to both attack and be able to protect a planeswalker.

As I mentioned, I really appreciate all the feedback and am trying to figure out what the ideal list is. My LGS meta is super diverse as I mentioned a few pages ago. The core of what I've been exploring is:

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge

The other 20 cards flex, with the Chandra/Koth/Jaya plan and spells versus the more proactive creature and equipment plan. With the spells approach, I definitely feel the lack of having things on the board, but I'm not sure what those threats are. It's probably a mix of Rabblemaster and Planeswalkers, so I'll give that a spin.

[Sunday Funday]

Pardon me as this is my first time posting in this thread. I've played this deck many years ago (still with gathan raiders, pit dragon) and was wondering why are we shying away from maindecking trinisphere? I feel like a turn one lock is super crucial. I would always start with:

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

Then later I would consider the win cons whether it is koth or gobiln rabblemaster etc.

[ZTurgeon]

Pardon me as this is my first time posting in this thread. I've played this deck many years ago (still with gathan raiders, pit dragon) and was wondering why are we shying away from maindecking trinisphere? I feel like a turn one lock is super crucial. I would always start with:

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

Then later I would consider the win cons whether it is koth or gobiln rabblemaster etc.

Because it doesn't do much against a bunch of decks. Yes, it can lock to people out and is great against most combo decks, but if you play a Trinisphere, it is a lock peice with an expiration. Most decks will draw out of it eventually.

Additionally, it is redundant with itself but doesn't pitch to Chrome Mox.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I [...] was wondering why are we shying away from maindecking trinisphere?
I've personally put 3ball in the sideboard because I feel it is weak against Lands/Miracles/BGx decks, and they comprise a good part of the meta. Lands and Miracles will get to 3 lands by turn 3 almost every game. So it is a very soft lock there. BGx decks run Deathrite Shaman and can often play unaffected by Trinisphere if they are on the play.

I've also been caught by my own Trinisphere more times than I'd like to admit. Whether it is playing it turn 1 with a City of Traitors, or having my opponent Wasteland my Ancient Tomb and then outdraw me on lands. Or even drawing multiple Chrome Moxen instead of the 4th land...

I bring it in on games 2 and 3 for the matchups where it outright wins the game, cause it still does that against certain decks.

[Koby]

Played some Goblin Stompy variant last nite at a weekly event. Nothing groundbreaking, ran Aftershock in place of equipment, but never cast it so I can't comment on whether its worth it.

Round 1 - UR Delver (2-1)
Round 2 - Colorless Eldrazi (2-0) - battle of the meek lol 2/1s vs 1/1 tokens
Round 3 - Elves (2-0) Pyrokinesis *flex*
Round 4 - ID go home and sleeeeeeep

Eldrazi can be a bit scary, and that's why I wanted to run Aftershock -- to handle TKS and Reality Smasher. Perhaps Fiery Conclusion could perform the same role (sweep the leg). I did notice getting to 4 and 5 mana was a bit tricky, even with 21 lands.

[TLK]

Played some Goblin Stompy variant last nite at a weekly event. Nothing groundbreaking, ran Aftershock in place of equipment, but never cast it so I can't comment on whether its worth it.

Round 1 - UR Delver (2-1)
Round 2 - Colorless Eldrazi (2-0) - battle of the meek lol 2/1s vs 1/1 tokens
Round 3 - Elves (2-0) Pyrokinesis *flex*
Round 4 - ID go home and sleeeeeeep

Eldrazi can be a bit scary, and that's why I wanted to run Aftershock -- to handle TKS and Reality Smasher. Perhaps Fiery Conclusion could perform the same role (sweep the leg). I did notice getting to 4 and 5 mana was a bit tricky, even with 21 lands.

What's your list? I'm planning on playing this deck for the first time tonight at a local weekly event. My meta is all over the place, so I'm not sure what to expect as far as matchups and such are concerned.

[Koby]

What's your list? I'm planning on playing this deck for the first time tonight at a local weekly event. My meta is all over the place, so I'm not sure what to expect as far as matchups and such are concerned.

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Cavern of Souls

3 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Seige-gang Commander
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Goblin Settler
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

4 Blood Moon
2 Aftershock (could be equipment if you don't anticipate Eldrazi)

SB:
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Boil
1 Anarchy
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Shattering Spree? (I forget, never used it perhaps)

I think the Boartusk Liege is not bad, maybe Goblin King would also be good (to give evasion with Moon effects).

[hofzge]

Hi all
I would really like to play this deck but the Ensnaring Bridge version. Has anyone recently played that?
How is Pia and Kiran?

Locally there are nearly no fair decks (2 Reanimator, 2 Lands, Storm, 4Color Loam, some other Blood Moon Decks) and I think this attacks from the right angle. I have played other Chalice decks before (4Color Loam, Eldrazi Aggro, Stax) but many of then struggle against Lands.

Here is about what I would play:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blood Moon
3x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Koth of the Hammer
3x Magma Jet
3x Magus of the Moon
10x Mountain
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
SB:
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Pyrokinesis
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere

What else do I need in the sideboard? This was just thrown together haphazardly - the only thing I am sure of is 4-5 gravehate cards.

[LeoCop 90]

What does the hivemind think we would have to do to support Thought-Knot Seer in the deck?

I don't know if it is a good idea, because we would add inconsistency to our already quite inconsistent deck. I mean, Seer is a good card, but our main plan is to slam moon/magus and that make it uncastable unless we draw other bad cards (powder/talismans) we added to the deck just to circumvent the problem. Maybe i underestimate Seer and his powerlevel is high enough to warp the deck a little bit, but i think overall is just better to keep the deck streamlined and play Thunderbreak regent/pia e kiran/moggcatcher/koth......

[wasabizod]

Hi all
I would really like to play this deck but the Ensnaring Bridge version. Has anyone recently played that?
How is Pia and Kiran?

Locally there are nearly no fair decks (2 Reanimator, 2 Lands, Storm, 4Color Loam, some other Blood Moon Decks) and I think this attacks from the right angle. I have played other Chalice decks before (4Color Loam, Eldrazi Aggro, Stax) but many of then struggle against Lands.

Here is about what I would play:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blood Moon
3x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Koth of the Hammer
3x Magma Jet
3x Magus of the Moon
10x Mountain
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
SB:
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Pyrokinesis
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere

What else do I need in the sideboard? This was just thrown together haphazardly - the only thing I am sure of is 4-5 gravehate cards.

I've been playing a Bridge/Chalice/Moon version on MTGO and at my LGS weekly event and I've been enjoying it. I used to run Pia and Kiran, Rabblemaster, and a few other creatures and equipment, but then shifted to a more spell-based version. I like what you have above as it's somewhere between the two.

I play a split of Chandra and Koth because I run 4 Fiery Confluence and ultimating Chandra for Confluence is really a wonderful feeling. That said, running confluence in your main may not be bad with so many decks that run important artifacts. I have a lot of D&T at my store and triple shatter for 2RR (or even 3RR with Thalia) is amazing.

The sideboard looks similar to mine, though if you're not dealing with a lot of creatures, Pyrokinesis may not be necessary.


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[TLK]

So I ran the list Koby posted on the last page (substituting a couple cards) at my local weekly event last night. Didn't go too well.

Round 1 vs Junk Maverick

Game 1 I basically only drew Rabblemasters, which don't fare too well against an active Mom and Thalia. Large Knights sealed the deal. Game 2, I had a T1 Rabblemaster which ate a Swords to Plowshares and I was basically screwed. I learned the hard way that this deck can be very explosive, but it requires a lot of the cards in your hand. If the threat/disruption you power out on turn 1/2 is immediately answered, you end up so far behind.

0-2

Round 2 vs Esper Blade w/Thopter Foundry combo

I play against this guy every week, so I knew what he was on. I didn't think the matchup would be as lopsided as it turned out to be. Game 1 I land an early Trinisphere and ride Moggcatcher -> Rabblemaster to victory. Game 2 an early Magus locked him out as Moggcatcher -> Rabblemaster sealed it again. Pretty easy.

2-0

Round 3 vs Infect

This was rough. Game 1 my turn 2 Magus gets Dazed, and he kills me on turn 3 with Blighted Agent + Invigorate + Berserk. Can't do much about that. Game 2 I land a turn 1 Chalice which buys me quite a bit of time. On turn 2 I drop a Goblin Settler to hit his Trop and leave him on one land. Next turn I drop a Redcap to take care of his Blighted Agent, and things are looking pretty good. I hard cast a Spirit Guide to keep the beats going. I'm one turn from lethal but he activates an Inkmoth + Invigorate + Invigorate + Become Immense. :/ I had a feeling I should've held onto my Settler for when he drops an Inkmoth, but at the time I felt the tempo swing would be enough to warrant playing it.

0-2

Are my losses typical? Are these bad matchups? There was nothing I could do about Infect game 1, and blowing my Settler early may have cost me game 2, but nonetheless the lack of removal seemed rough. I also wasn't packing Goblin Sharpshooter which definitely could've helped.

[wasabizod]

So I ran the list Koby posted on the last page (substituting a couple cards) at my local weekly event last night. Didn't go too well.

Round 1 vs Junk Maverick

Game 1 I basically only drew Rabblemasters, which don't fare too well against an active Mom and Thalia. Large Knights sealed the deal. Game 2, I had a T1 Rabblemaster which ate a Swords to Plowshares and I was basically screwed. I learned the hard way that this deck can be very explosive, but it requires a lot of the cards in your hand. If the threat/disruption you power out on turn 1/2 is immediately answered, you end up so far behind.

0-2

Round 2 vs Esper Blade w/Thopter Foundry combo

I play against this guy every week, so I knew what he was on. I didn't think the matchup would be as lopsided as it turned out to be. Game 1 I land an early Trinisphere and ride Moggcatcher -> Rabblemaster to victory. Game 2 an early Magus locked him out as Moggcatcher -> Rabblemaster sealed it again. Pretty easy.

2-0

Round 3 vs Infect

This was rough. Game 1 my turn 2 Magus gets Dazed, and he kills me on turn 3 with Blighted Agent + Invigorate + Berserk. Can't do much about that. Game 2 I land a turn 1 Chalice which buys me quite a bit of time. On turn 2 I drop a Goblin Settler to hit his Trop and leave him on one land. Next turn I drop a Redcap to take care of his Blighted Agent, and things are looking pretty good. I hard cast a Spirit Guide to keep the beats going. I'm one turn from lethal but he activates an Inkmoth + Invigorate + Invigorate + Become Immense. :/ I had a feeling I should've held onto my Settler for when he drops an Inkmoth, but at the time I felt the tempo swing would be enough to warrant playing it.

0-2

Are my losses typical? Are these bad matchups? There was nothing I could do about Infect game 1, and blowing my Settler early may have cost me game 2, but nonetheless the lack of removal seemed rough. I also wasn't packing Goblin Sharpshooter which definitely could've helped.

This doesn't seem unreasonable but it does feel unlucky. Versus Infect, the best thing you can do is T1 Chalice T2 Moon, but you need to be wary of FoW and Daze. I tend to mulligan hands that don't have at least one lock piece and one threat or two lock pieces. If I don't know what they're on, I tend to prefer moon + threat. But yeah, you can get some bad draws. I went 0-3 last week and then 4-0 this week. That said, I played Death and Taxes twice last week and I couldn't hate flickerwisp more.

[TLK]

This doesn't seem unreasonable but it does feel unlucky. Versus Infect, the best thing you can do is T1 Chalice T2 Moon, but you need to be wary of FoW and Daze. I tend to mulligan hands that don't have at least one lock piece and one threat or two lock pieces. If I don't know what they're on, I tend to prefer moon + threat. But yeah, you can get some bad draws. I went 0-3 last week and then 4-0 this week. That said, I played Death and Taxes twice last week and I couldn't hate flickerwisp more.

Yeah, there were a few D&T/Maverick style Mom decks last night. I didn't bring my Sulfur Elementals with me, but I'll likely be bringing a couple in the side next week. I did feel a little unlucky against Infect, but the Maverick matchup seemed very tough.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Yeah, there were a few D&T/Maverick style Mom decks last night. I didn't bring my Sulfur Elementals with me, but I'll likely be bringing a couple in the side next week. I did feel a little unlucky against Infect, but the Maverick matchup seemed very tough.
Maverick is tough! Don't try to outrace them. You'll lose that battle. You have to land a lock (Blood Moon is probably the best one) and attrition them out with Moggcatcher -> Siege-Gang -> Kiki (or Redcap -> Kiki)

Against Infect, you really want to mull to Blood Moon or Trinisphere. Chalice stops a lot of cards, but Blighted Agent and Inkmoth Nexus let them mostly play around Chalice. Trinisphere turns off all their 'free' pump spells. Don't imprint your Spirit Guides on Chrome Mox (on the draw) if you can help it because you can exile them to foil a Daze.

Also, consider only activating your Moggcatcher in response to an action your opponent takes or at the end of your opponent's turn. It is very tempting to fetch Settler at the first opportunity, but your toolbox gives you a lot of ways to respond to various situations. And you can always EOT fetch Rabblemaster, your turn fetch Kiki, copy rabblemaster, and swing for 12 out of nowhere.

[TLK]

Maverick is tough! Don't try to outrace them. You'll lose that battle. You have to land a lock (Blood Moon is probably the best one) and attrition them out with Moggcatcher -> Siege-Gang -> Kiki (or Redcap -> Kiki)

Against Infect, you really want to mull to Blood Moon or Trinisphere. Chalice stops a lot of cards, but Blighted Agent and Inkmoth Nexus let them mostly play around Chalice. Trinisphere turns off all their 'free' pump spells. Don't imprint your Spirit Guides on Chrome Mox (on the draw) if you can help it because you can exile them to foil a Daze.

Also, consider only activating your Moggcatcher in response to an action your opponent takes or at the end of your opponent's turn. It is very tempting to fetch Settler at the first opportunity, but your toolbox gives you a lot of ways to respond to various situations. And you can always EOT fetch Rabblemaster, your turn fetch Kiki, copy rabblemaster, and swing for 12 out of nowhere.

Thanks! Yeah, my Maverick opponent seemed to ALWAYS have a StP for anything I played. I had Siege-Gang + 5 goblins which I could basically use to blow up his board, and he StP my SGC on his following turn and basically rendered my goblin tokens as chump blockers. Once he equipped SoFaI to a large Knight, it was basically over.

[wasabizod]

Really coming out of left field here, but would it be reasonable to try and add Fanatic of Mogis and some number of Splinter Twin/Kiki Jiki to the deck? I've been exploring it in modern (similar build minus the Sol lands) and it's a really powerful finisher often.

I imagine it's a bit clunky otherwise, but I've been trying to explore how to close out games in different ways.


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[Zupponn]

Really coming out of left field here, but would it be reasonable to try and add Fanatic of Mogis and some number of Splinter Twin/Kiki Jiki to the deck? I've been exploring it in modern (similar build minus the Sol lands) and it's a really powerful finisher often.

The key with any creature that we run should be its ability to win the game or do something impactful by itself. It will be your only threat in your hand on occasion and Fanatic of Mogis is piss poor by itself. Kiki-Jiki is one of the few cards that gets a pass in our deck because of the immense synergy it has with almost everything else we play. Fanatic of Mogis is also not a goblin, which is a big strike against it in the Moggcatcher lists. Splinter Twin has even less use in this deck because of how few creatures that we already run and the fact that we don't want to expose ourselves to two-for-ones any more than we already do.

[hofzge]

Also Splinter Twin Jiki is no combo - Kiki cannot copy itself...

You would need Zealous Conscripts and that is also a bad card by itself...

[wasabizod]

Also Splinter Twin Jiki is no combo - Kiki cannot copy itself...

You would need Zealous Conscripts and that is also a bad card by itself...

I meant copy Fanatic, but the more I play this deck the more it's clear that each card should hold its own, as stated above.

I've been on a hot streak lately, beating Jeskai Stoneblade, UWR Delver, Grixis Delver, Elves, storm, reanimator, and Eldrazi Stompy. I also crushed 12 Post in back to back games of T1 Chalice T2 Blood Moon. The only close games were Stoneblade (which went to time and he conceded because he couldn't eliminate two bridges) and Elves. I'm taking the following (I think) to a win-a-box tomorrow:

"No Friends Red"

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Fiery Confluence
4x Magma Jet
2x Sudden Shock
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Koth of the Hammer

Sideboard (15)
2x Boil
2x Dismember
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Null Rod
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere

Null Rod obviously shuts off Chrome Mox, but I need it against D&T and other equipment-heavy decks.

Jaya hasn't been a great performer, and I'm tempted to run 1 less Mox, but overall things have seemed pretty good. I could run 1-2 Bonfire of the Damned though I'd love to find a way to fit 4 Rabblemaster back in.

Suggestions welcome.

[cidbahamut]

What's our general gameplan/sideboard tech for UWR Stoneblade? I've gotten blown out pretty hard the last few times I've come up against it.

[wasabizod]

What's our general gameplan/sideboard tech for UWR Stoneblade? I've gotten blown out pretty hard the last few times I've come up against it.

Which version of the deck are you playing? (Moggcatcher, Creatures + Swords, Planeswalker?)

With the Planeswalker version, G1 I try to hold my Magma Jet/Sudden Shock for Stoneforge Mystic to delay a Batterskull, land a chalice to prevent brainstorming/swordsing, and then leveraging Koth and Fiery Confluence to kill them. G2 I lean on Trinisphere and Null Rod to slow them down and prevent their equipment from activating. It's definitely a hard match without Bridge, and moon effects may not affect them much because of their basics (depending on the version). True Name is a beating, no matter what, so you have to hope to slow them down in the early turns and then lock them out.

If you're playing the creature version, I would hope for early Rabblemasters or Moggcatcher into Seige Gang and then hit them with little goblins.

[hofzge]

I meant copy Fanatic, but the more I play this deck the more it's clear that each card should hold its own, as stated above.
"No Friends Red"

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Fiery Confluence
4x Magma Jet
2x Sudden Shock
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Koth of the Hammer

Sideboard (15)
2x Boil
2x Dismember
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Null Rod
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere

Null Rod obviously shuts off Chrome Mox, but I need it against D&T and other equipment-heavy decks.

Jaya hasn't been a great performer, and I'm tempted to run 1 less Mox, but overall things have seemed pretty good. I could run 1-2 Bonfire of the Damned though I'd love to find a way to fit 4 Rabblemaster back in.

Suggestions welcome.

I posted this before:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blood Moon
3x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Koth of the Hammer
3x Magma Jet
3x Magus of the Moon
10x Mountain
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
SB:
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Pyrokinesis
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere

I think you run a bit short on wincons, as I would not count the Fiery Confluences as wincons. The problem you will get with Fiery Confluence in any version with Rabblemaster is that it kills your own stuff -> thus Bonfire.

Jaya, as well as Pia and Kiran have the advantage of being wincons with bridge as well as removal in stead of the Fiery Confluences.

[cidbahamut]

Which version of the deck are you playing? (Moggcatcher, Creatures + Swords, Planeswalker?)


I've recently switched over to the Moggcatcher build and I'm just sort of inexperienced in general so it's been a bit vexing. Sometimes they'll just have removal for my critters, other times the equipment will hit the board and I won't be able to draw an answer and once Batterskull or Jitte are fully operational racing becomes very difficult. Am I just losing to variance or are there specific lines of play I should be aiming for when facing Stoneblade?

[wasabizod]

I posted this before:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blood Moon
3x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Koth of the Hammer
3x Magma Jet
3x Magus of the Moon
10x Mountain
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
SB:
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Pyrokinesis
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere

I think you run a bit short on wincons, as I would not count the Fiery Confluences as wincons. The problem you will get with Fiery Confluence in any version with Rabblemaster is that it kills your own stuff -> thus Bonfire.

Jaya, as well as Pia and Kiran have the advantage of being wincons with bridge as well as removal in stead of the Fiery Confluences.

Yeah, after giving this a few more spins today, it's clear that I need to bring Rabblemaster back in, which probably means Confluence needs to move to the sideboard. I'm interested in your sideboard choices - especially Pyrokinesis and Rachet Bomb. I can see bomb as a good sweeper, but why Pyrokinesis when you're already running Bonfire? Free spell?

[hofzge]

Yeah, after giving this a few more spins today, it's clear that I need to bring Rabblemaster back in, which probably means Confluence needs to move to the sideboard. I'm interested in your sideboard choices - especially Pyrokinesis and Rachet Bomb. I can see bomb as a good sweeper, but why Pyrokinesis when you're already running Bonfire? Free spell?

Yeah that's a bit stupid. Just play whatever you like. We have a very warped meta at my shop with 1 Dragons Stompy list (Dragons), 1 Imperial Painter, 1 Reanimator, 2 Lands -> The one person I am worried about is the painter that is quite immune to much of my interaction, but killing the painter and destroying some artifacts should help -> another Fiery Confluence or a Pithing Needle should do the trick.

[Zupponn]

I've recently switched over to the Moggcatcher build and I'm just sort of inexperienced in general so it's been a bit vexing. Sometimes they'll just have removal for my critters, other times the equipment will hit the board and I won't be able to draw an answer and once Batterskull or Jitte are fully operational racing becomes very difficult. Am I just losing to variance or are there specific lines of play I should be aiming for when facing Stoneblade?
Look for an early lock piece to shut down part or all of their deck. If that doesn't work, you're going to look to grind them out with Moggcatcher and Siege-Gangs.

For sideboarding, Scrappers are super important as they can take care of equipment and golems. You could bring Bridges in if you want, but I'm not sure if they're the right call. They would be useful though. Anarchy can be useful to take care of a couple of cards, but probably not the best choice. Pyrokinesis seems like a very good option in this matchup as it takes care of a lot of opposing threats.

Something to keep in mind is that since Moggcatcher is your biggest game against them, it should be the last threat deployed. Run out Rabblemasters, Pia and Kiran, Rakka Mar, SGC first to draw out their answers then Moggcatcher should be able to survive and take over the game. Don't play around Daze as they don't run it and deploy your threats aggressively.

[Octopusman]

What do you guys think about Sin Prodder?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/shadows-over-innistrad/26804-sin-prodder

I'm liking it... A lot.

Menace means it's easier to connect.
Main board we have 26 zero cost cards. Everything else is 3+ (mostly three and a few 4/5 depending).
Sure, the opponent choosing is always bad but... a drawn card is a drawn card. Random is random and if they get rid of something it will potentially hurt a lot.
I think this is the 2R beater I've been waiting for and the (sometimes) card advantage I've been waiting for... RIP Flamespeaker.

Snap buying a playset.

[edit] Not to mention the art is badass and I've wanted a playable Devil for so long.

[Begle1]

"Punisher" cards are easy to over-estimate, but it's interesting here at least since how often this deck goes into top-deck wars.


Usually I have three/ four mana, which is all most builds really need, and I then usually drop a lock piece on the first turn, only not to find enough threats (or the right lock piece) to win.

Lets go through the scenarios:
Sin Prodder is played after first your lock piece, and there's some low-cost mana spell you don't have a use for (Mox or Land) on top of your library: regardless of whether your opponent mills it or lets it go to your hand (if they're trying to attack through your Bridge maybe?), you at least get to draw the card under it too. In effect, if your top card is a land or a Mox, you get the card under it. Since the deck is 1/3rd mana, this is going to happen a lot.

You land a Sin Prodder and you are trying to find a threat to win the game; most of your threats cost 3-5 mana. If they have an answer for the threat, you get it for free and whatever is under it. If they don't have an answer for it, then they bin it and Sin Prodder deals 3-5 damage to them. Best case is they pay life to remove the threat and you draw another threat, but most-likely case is they just deal with the threat in the way that's most efficient for them at the time. This isn't really a good thing... Even dealing 3-5 damage a turn I still don't think he out-races Rabblemaster.

You land a Sin Prodder and desperately need to find the right lock piece. If the lock piece you seek is on top of your library, you will never get it. Yes, the odds are such that the piece you need is as likely second from the top as on the top, but this still reduces your chances of getting that one card you seek. So in this situation the card is actively bad.

You are stuck on three mana (or two, with a Moon turning a Sol land into a mountain), and you need to draw another mana card. Sin Prodder makes it harder to draw the mana, but in a deck with 50% mana sources, your odds aren't terrible. So it's only a little bad here.



I started writing this post wanting to play Prodder, writing it out I think he kinda sucks. He'll win the games you would've won anyways, but he'll actively lose you some games where most other three-drops would've been okay.
He would be interesting if we had some sort of recursion element where we just want to see cards and don't really care if they're in the hand or yard. Like if we had some phoenixes, Life from the Loam, Delve or flashback spells. I don't think such cards exist. Maybe a Welder/ Daretti MUD thing that's looking for some early pressure/ velocity.

[Octopusman]

"Punisher" cards are easy to over-estimate, but it's interesting here at least since how often this deck goes into top-deck wars.


Usually I have three/ four mana, which is all most builds really need, and I then usually drop a lock piece on the first turn, only not to find enough threats (or the right lock piece) to win.

Lets go through the scenarios:
Sin Prodder is played after first your lock piece, and there's some low-cost mana spell you don't have a use for (Mox or Land) on top of your library: regardless of whether your opponent mills it or lets it go to your hand (if they're trying to attack through your Bridge maybe?), you at least get to draw the card under it too. In effect, if your top card is a land or a Mox, you get the card under it. Since the deck is 1/3rd mana, this is going to happen a lot.

You land a Sin Prodder and you are trying to find a threat to win the game; most of your threats cost 3-5 mana. If they have an answer for the threat, you get it for free and whatever is under it. If they don't have an answer for it, then they bin it and Sin Prodder deals 3-5 damage to them. Best case is they pay life to remove the threat and you draw another threat, but most-likely case is they just deal with the threat in the way that's most efficient for them at the time. This isn't really a good thing... Even dealing 3-5 damage a turn I still don't think he out-races Rabblemaster.

You land a Sin Prodder and desperately need to find the right lock piece. If the lock piece you seek is on top of your library, you will never get it. Yes, the odds are such that the piece you need is as likely second from the top as on the top, but this still reduces your chances of getting that one card you seek. So in this situation the card is actively bad.

You are stuck on three mana (or two, with a Moon turning a Sol land into a mountain), and you need to draw another mana card. Sin Prodder makes it harder to draw the mana, but in a deck with 50% mana sources, your odds aren't terrible. So it's only a little bad here.



I started writing this post wanting to play Prodder, writing it out I think he kinda sucks. He'll win the games you would've won anyways, but he'll actively lose you some games where most other three-drops would've been okay.

I think this kind of thinking happens a lot in Magic but the reality is that his ability doesn't reduce the chances of getting the one card you seek at all. It's not actively bad in that scenario and won't cause you to lose games because of it any more than any other game where you didn't top deck the card you needed.
"This doesn't affect the probability distribution of your normal draw". - credit Awkward_Torkoal
Your top card is random.

Benefit I can see vs. Rabble is the evasion.

This is a very polarizing card and I'm enjoying the back and forth. We'll see how it does in testing. :)

[Ace/Homebrew]

Yeah... I'm unconvinced this is a good card for us. But I am interested in hearing how your testing goes Octopusman. :wink:

[Octopusman]

Yeah... I'm unconvinced this is a good card for us. But I am interested in hearing how your testing goes Octopusman. :wink:

I'm excited for the first time in a while. Will definitely keep you posted.

[Gheizen64]

I think this should be seen more as a 3 drop that can race decently fast and is hard to block. Sorta like a Rabblemaster. Compared to rabblemaster however, if removed it leave nothing behind, and it can't either race as fast nor damage a planeswalker the turn it come out. It's however harder to block and can give you some card adnvatage in the cases where you flip like 3 high cmc cards in a row.

[sdematt]

I actually really like that guy, since I really hate casting Chandra into do-nothing.

I'm going to brew a Stone Rain + Avalanche Riders build, since I want to make my opponents hate me even more when I destroy their one basic land :D

[GoblinSettler]

I actually really like that guy, since I really hate casting Chandra into do-nothing.

I'm going to brew a Stone Rain + Avalanche Riders build, since I want to make my opponents hate me even more when I destroy their one basic land :D

This reminds me of the time I had just picked up a playset of Beta Stone Rain. Of course I sleeved that up next to a playset of Goblin Settlers and some other prison cards. Sit down ready to make some rude plays. Then my opponent chooses to draw first. I held eight Stone Rains against Manaless Dredge. What a miserable game!

[ZEROorDIE]

So, thoughts?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/shadows-over-innistrad/26832-goldnight-castigator

Goldnight castigator- (2)(R)(R)
Flying, haste

If a source would deal damage to you, it deals double that damage to you instead.

If a source would deal damage to Goldnight Castigator, it deals double that damage to Goldnight Castigator instead.

4/9

I'm intrigued.

[LeoCop 90]

This angel is an option for sure, survives bolt decay and dismember and hits real hard. But well, other good 4 mana creatures already exist and i'm not sure i want to lose to any opponent trying to race by doubling his damage output.

[TLK]

I must not have very good luck with this deck. Played it at my weekly event after taking a few weeks off from it, since the first time I played it didn't go well, either.

Round 1 vs Death & Taxes:

Game 1 I get a turn 1 Rabblemaster on the play. He's able to stabilize and thwart an attack step or two with a Batterskull until I land a Moggcatcher and fetch Tuktuk. He has enough mana to bounce Batterskull but the tempo swing was in my favor. I'm able to get in for some pretty big damage hits, and when he attempts to flash in Batterskull again I use Moggcatcher to fetch Kiki-Jiki and copy Tuktuk for the win.

Game 2 I get another fast Rabblemaster that eats a StP and I never really draw anything else. Sulfur Elemental out of the board shows up much too late.

Game 3 I keep a hand with 2 Pyrokinesis that likely would've won me the game as I had an early Siege-Gang coming, but he landed a turn 2 Absolute Law. :/

1-2, 0-1

Round 2 vs Infect:

I got wrecked by this guy the last time I played Dragon Stompy. This just seems like a miserable matchup. Mulling to 4 game 1 didn't help. I did have double Magus, but he had counters for both. Game 2 I keep a hand with Chalice, Cavern and Magus but he still wins. Sigh.

0-2, 0-2

At this point I dropped and wanted to throw this deck into the garbage. Am I just getting unlucky with matchups or what? I love stompy decks and this one seems to be one of the best available, but I can't quite seem to mirror the positive results that others seem to have with this deck.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Am I just getting unlucky with matchups or what?
Death & Taxes is a tough matchup. Especially when they find their one-of sideboard hate that reads "your opponent can no longer win the game".
This deck is more susceptible to death via mulligans than most. Chances are you'd lose most games where you mull to 4...

Bad matchups and draws happen. :rolleyes:

[TLK]

Okay, glad it's not just me. Maybe I just need to be a bit more patient. What's the plan of attack against Infect, aside from a turn 1 Moon effect?

[ZEROorDIE]

Okay, glad it's not just me. Maybe I just need to be a bit more patient. What's the plan of attack against Infect, aside from a turn 1 Moon effect?

T1 chalice

But other than that, magma jet, or some such spell. You need to be able to kill their creatures on sight.

I'm not sure what lists people are playing right now but jitte is also good as well as SoFaF.

Fiery confluence is sick but also sorcery speed

[TLK]

T1 chalice

But other than that, magma jet, or some such spell. You need to be able to kill their creatures on sight.

I'm not sure what lists people are playing right now but jitte is also good as well as SoFaF.

Fiery confluence is sick but also sorcery speed

Maybe Sudden Shock so our removal can't be countered/responded to with pump spells? I had a turn 2 Chalice on 1 in game 2 against Infect and that still wasn't enough, as he dropped a Glistener Elf on his first turn, then kept getting in with his turn 2 Blighted Agent, as my Magus couldn't block.

[L10]

Sakai Toshinori made Top 8 at BMO with this build:
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD06856S/

20 Lands
4 《古えの墳墓/Ancient Tomb》
3 《魂の洞窟/Cavern of Souls》
4 《裏切り者の都/City of Traitors》
9 《山/Mountain》

25 Creatures
4 《ゴブリンの熟練扇動者/Goblin Rabblemaster》
1 《Goblin Settler》
1 《鏡割りのキキジキ/Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker》
1 《群衆の親分、クレンコ/Krenko, Mob Boss》
4 《月の大魔術師/Magus of the Moon》
4 《モグ捕り人/Moggcatcher》
1 《残忍なレッドキャップ/Murderous Redcap》
2 《鍛冶の神、パーフォロス/Purphoros, God of the Forge》
2 《包囲攻撃の司令官/Siege-Gang Commander》
4 《猿人の指導霊/Simian Spirit Guide》
1 《タクタクの潰し屋/Tuktuk Scrapper》

15 Spells
4 《血染めの月/Blood Moon》
4 《虚空の杯/Chalice of the Void》
4 《金属モックス/Chrome Mox》
3 《罠の橋/Ensnaring Bridge》

15 Sideboard Cards
2 《映し身人形/Duplicant》
3 《フェアリーの忌み者/Faerie Macabre》
2 《ファイレクシアの破棄者/Phyrexian Revoker》
4 《難題の予見者/Thought-Knot Seer》
2 《アメジストのとげ/Thorn of Amethyst》
2 《三なる宝球/Trinisphere》

Purphoros, God of the Forge is a bomb. I also like the SB Thought-Knot Seer against MU where Moon is poor.

[ZTurgeon]

I must not have very good luck with this deck. Played it at my weekly event after taking a few weeks off from it, since the first time I played it didn't go well, either.

Round 1 vs Death & Taxes:

Game 1 I get a turn 1 Rabblemaster on the play. He's able to stabilize and thwart an attack step or two with a Batterskull until I land a Moggcatcher and fetch Tuktuk. He has enough mana to bounce Batterskull but the tempo swing was in my favor. I'm able to get in for some pretty big damage hits, and when he attempts to flash in Batterskull again I use Moggcatcher to fetch Kiki-Jiki and copy Tuktuk for the win.

Game 2 I get another fast Rabblemaster that eats a StP and I never really draw anything else. Sulfur Elemental out of the board shows up much too late.

Game 3 I keep a hand with 2 Pyrokinesis that likely would've won me the game as I had an early Siege-Gang coming, but he landed a turn 2 Absolute Law. :/

1-2, 0-1

Round 2 vs Infect:

I got wrecked by this guy the last time I played Dragon Stompy. This just seems like a miserable matchup. Mulling to 4 game 1 didn't help. I did have double Magus, but he had counters for both. Game 2 I keep a hand with Chalice, Cavern and Magus but he still wins. Sigh.

0-2, 0-2

At this point I dropped and wanted to throw this deck into the garbage. Am I just getting unlucky with matchups or what? I love stompy decks and this one seems to be one of the best available, but I can't quite seem to mirror the positive results that others seem to have with this deck.

Death and Taxes is a bad match, the worst in my opinion, but Infect is comically easy.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Death and Taxes is a bad match, the worst in my opinion, but Infect is comically easy.
That has been my experience against Death & Taxes too... And lately I've been maindecking 3 Fiery Confluences. It's still tough, especially if they find Absolute Law games 2 or 3. :frown:

Trinisphere might be better than a Moon because then Infect actually has to pay for all their spells. Follow up with a Moon or pressure.

[L10]

Werewolf Stompy has a new toy.

https://i.imgur.com/pG1Yj0e.png

Geier Reach Bandit - 2R (3/2)
Creature - Human Rogue Werewolf
Haste
At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform Geier Reach Bandit.

Vildin-Pack Alpha - (4/3)
Creature - Werewolf
Whenever a Werewolf enters the battlefield under your control, you may transform it.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast two or more spells last turn, transform Vildin-Pack Alpha.

Auto-transformation seems pretty good.

[Gheizen64]

Tbh, more than transformations i'd just play it because it's a human (good with magus and caverns) that is a 3/2 haste that will eventually flip into a 4/3 for 2R. Seems more interesting than prodder.

[Zupponn]

I still say that Werewolf Stompy is horrible.

@TLK: This deck is not consistent by any stretch of the imagination, so having bad luck from time to time is something to be expected. It took me many tries to finally have a decent showing with the deck at a tournament. I am interested in seeing what your list looks like though. Maybe there's something that can be tweaked to give you a little more of an edge.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Werewolf Stompy has a new toy.
Auto-transformation seems pretty good.
Too bad the flip side doesn't also have haste... It's arguably worse to drop the second one after the original has flipped. :frown:

[Gheizen64]

Flip is pretty much a non-issue, the unflipped side is really, really good. Human and haste. Also, i've seen Sin Prodder played a bit in limited, and yeah, it looked better than i assumed. Maybe i'll try it in again. In theory, maximing on 2R drops should give maximum consistency to the deck. In pratice, there's a limited number of slot in there so...

Also the flip trigger is a MAY so you don't have to flip it at all.

[Gheizen64]

4 Geier reach bandit plus 3 bandit of kruin pass plus the moggcatcher suite is the best version of Red aggro stompy there is imho. Both said creatures are good off the top, although for different reasons, and the moggcatcher suite is as good as always . Sin prodder Isn't a bad card, but it's not worth the trade off of not being able to cast him off chalice like, ever

[Blastoderm]

Both look terrible.

[Octopusman]

Sin prodder Isn't a bad card, but it's not worth the trade off of not being able to cast him off chalice like, ever

What do you mean?

--

I'm going to be testing this soon:

Main
Mountain 10
Seething Song 4
Trinisphere 4
Chalice of the Void 4
Blood Moon 4
Magus of the Moon 4
Sin Prodder 4
Goblin Dark-Dwellers 1
Stormbreath Dragon 3
Umezawa's Jitte 2
Goblin Rabblemaster 4

Board
Ratchet Bomb 2
Anarchy 2
Phyrexian Revoker 3
Pyrokinesis 4
Cursed Totem 2
Null Rod 2

Dark-Dweller shenanigans with Song.
Revealing Pyrokinesis with Prodder post-board. I want Fireblast so badly, but no room.
Jitte in for Sword of War and Peace only because it can come out with Song with another three drop. If I find I have 6 mana reliably, I will definitely go back to sowp.
Jitte with Rabblemaster.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I had intended to buy Breakneck Riders and Geier Reach Bandits, but the shop hadn't opened any Shadows boxes yet... I quickly assembled the cards below and ended the night 4-0.

Main
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Magus of the Wheel
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Magma Jet
3 Fiery Confluence

Sideboard
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Trinisphere
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker

R1: Shardless BUG, 2-0
R2: Eldrazi, 2-1
R3: Dredge, 2-1
R4: Eldrazi, 2-1

Games 2 and 3 felt unlosable against Eldrazi. Game 1s felt even.
I got to live the dream of T1 Chalice, T2 TKS. :cool:
Wheel Magus was a 3/3 for :3: that traded with a 3/3 Endless One the only time I saw it...

Flamespeaker was great all night.

[wasabizod]

I had intended to buy Breakneck Riders and Geier Reach Bandits, but the shop hadn't opened any Shadows boxes yet... I quickly assembled the cards below and ended the night 4-0.

Main
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Magus of the Wheel
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Magma Jet
3 Fiery Confluence

Sideboard
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Trinisphere
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker

R1: Shardless BUG, 2-0
R2: Eldrazi, 2-1
R3: Dredge, 2-1
R4: Eldrazi, 2-1

Games 2 and 3 felt unlosable against Eldrazi. Game 1s felt even.
I got to live the dream of T1 Chalice, T2 TKS. :cool:
Wheel Magus was a 3/3 for :3: that traded with a 3/3 Endless One the only time I saw it...

Flamespeaker was great all night.

This build looks sweet. Any changes you'd make moving forward?

[Ace/Homebrew]

This build looks sweet. Any changes you'd make moving forward?
I don't know how good Wheel Magus is... I put him in to be cute with Sword of War and Peace.


I'm a big fan of Thought-Knot Seer in the board, but it requires you to board out all your Blood Moons and Magus of the Moons.

My side boarding strategy was as follows:

Shardless
Out: Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Scab-Clan Berserker
In: Trinisphere, Thought-Knot Seer, Phyrexian Revoker

Eldrazi
Out: Chalice of the Void, Scab-Clan Berserker
In: Trinisphere, Phyrexian Revoker

Dredge
Out: Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Magus of the Wheel, Sword of War and Peace, Scab-Clan Berserker
In: Everything


I don't believe Blood Moon is bad against Shardless, but it was literally the first opportunity I had to use TKS. I opened with CotV @ 1 followed by TKS, so no regrets I suppose.

[Octopusman]

Hey guys,

Ran this at the weekly last night.

10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Sin Prodder
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Board
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Anarchy
2 Shattering Spree
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Cursed Totem

I wish I had a larger sample of games to talk about but I will get there. I like the list. A lot.

Goblin Dark-Dwellers is bad without song which is why I keep it as a one of. I don't ever recall holding one without also having a song in hand.
I was contemplating having it at 2 because the interaction with Song is so damn strong but even if I can imprint an extra copy, I want to minimize the number of games where I have it and no Song.
Jitte was put in to even out more song-dwellers-song plays.
I've resisted Rabblemaster for so long because I had bad experiences with him getting sent to jail by Thalia but he is straight fire.

Sin Prodder definitely needs more testing, however I was impressed due to being able to draw cards when they are low(ish) on life, netting me a few cards.
Since he's new, some people made misplays though I don't expect this behavior to last unless he continues to remain unplayed (letting me keep a land for example).

I'm liking Menace.

[Last thought] Almost didn't mention Stormbreath but should bring up again that this thing is just a house. A+ 10/10. Such a fast clock and semi-difficult to answer. Makes me cry a little bit for Pit-Dragon.

R1 vs. Storm 2-0
Unfortunately, I got paired with my buddy and this matchup is very heavily tilted in our favor. Nothing important to mention other than swinging for 14 with Magus of the Moon. 4 turn clock w/ Jitte.

R2 vs. Lands 1-2
Yup, I lost to lands. I consider this matchup to be absolutely heavily in our favor.
Game 1 I get early moon and run him over with Rabblemaster in a few turns.
Game 2 He manages to get Explosives on 3 with Academy ruins and easily assembles Marit Lage before I can kill him.
Game 3 He keeps a starting hand with basic Forest and Grip. He grips my T1 Moon and I never see another one. I'm under a Wasteland lock with 1 Mountain that he keeps tapped... or rather, I am tapping it to keep my 1 Goblin Token alive. Get him to around 4 before he gets Marit... he removed all of the counters manually. Ouch.

R3 vs. 12 Post
Game 1 He durdles with maps and doesn't really do much of anything.
Game 2 T1 Chalice, T2 Song-Dwellers-Song-Stormbreath, T3 bring him to 8 and play a Sin Prodder. He hardcasts Ulamog removing goblin and dragon. Sin Prodder gets in for 3 but then he plays Primetime and I'm only resolving a Magus to block his Ulamog. GG.
Game 3 Resolve a moon and run him over with Rabblemaster in a few turns.

More elaboration to come as I play the list more.

I was dabbling with a new Hellbent list something like the below to get value w/ Sin Prodder but it's probably too cute. I don't want to diversify my testing too much as to limit gaining proficiency with a certain approach but may try something like this later for fun after my main list above is as close to tuned as possible (i.e. It's possible that I can cut a Prodder and a Rabblemaster for a miser of Fireblast/Pyrokinesis).
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Sin Prodder
2 Avaricious Dragon
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Fireblast
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
2 Pyrokinesis

[Sergi]

Hi I'm new in this thread

Last Saturday I played a GP side event aprox. 60 people and ended 3-3 with the following list:

Main:
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
1 Sword of fire and ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Fiery Confluence
3 Magma Jet
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury

Sideboard:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Faerie Macabre
1 volcanic fallout
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Boil
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Anarchy
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Umezawa's Jitte

My 3 wins were against 2 Grixis pyromancer (both 2-0) and Dark depths (2-1)
My 3 losses were against Death and Taxes, BRG reanimator (griselbrand turn one...) and Agro Loam (turn one: mox diamond + sylvan library, turn 2: 4/4 knight...)

Akroma was the 61st card and was surprisingly easy to cast (koth also helps in flipping with 3 mountains) also allows to bypass cards like iona. All star card was fiery confluence. BG sword is really useful when you equip flamespeaker allowing to use your lands again with the exiled cards, also helps bypass tarmogoyf, gurmag...

I found really difficult remove big threats already in battelfield such as big kotr, gurmag angler or grave titan. Any advice? I thought in aftershock but seems quite slow.

Sorry I don't know how to put links to the cards in my deckist.

[Koby]

I found really difficult remove big threats already in battelfield such as big kotr, gurmag angler or grave titan. Any advice? I thought in aftershock but seems quite slow.


Stingscourger does a fairly good job in removing big creatures, even temporarily. For this reason, I've shifted towards the Goblin shells.

[Zupponn]

The flexibility the goblin builds provide give you game against many decks that you would have no business winning against with other builds.

[Ace/Homebrew]

The flexibility the goblin builds provide give you game against many decks that you would have no business winning against with other builds.
For instance? I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on which match-ups in particular are improved. And I guess which get worse.

[Koby]

For instance? I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on which match-ups in particular are improved. And I guess which get worse.

I think that Goblins has a better time against BUG/Goyf variants, and vs the new-comer Eldrazi than do the Dragon builds.
Goblins might be slightly worse against Miracles and StoneBlade variations, however.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I think that Goblins has a better time against BUG/Goyf variants, and vs the new-comer Eldrazi than do the Dragon builds.
Goblins might be slightly worse against Miracles and StoneBlade variations, however.

I agree that Abrupt Decay decks have a tougher time against Moggcatcher. Although Toxic Deluge is a blowout and is thankfully a 1-of sideboard card. I've actually found Elves! to be a better matchup when running Goblin Stompy although my sample size is small.

Moggcatcher against Miracles feels stronger to me because of Goblin Settler. If you destroy both basic Plains, they have a tough time winning. And the curve of Goblin Stompy tends to have a lot of 4's and 5's which makes Counterbalance/Top less effective.

I've only played against Eldrazi 3 times, all without Moggcatcher. I think that matchup may be so favorable that it doesn't really matter what turn-1 Blood Moon build you throw at it. If you aggressively look for a Moon, they can only play Phyrexian Revoker, Umezawa's Jitte, Eldrazi Mimic, or Endless One.

[ZTurgeon]

I think that Goblins has a better time against BUG/Goyf variants, and vs the new-comer Eldrazi than do the Dragon builds.
Goblins might be slightly worse against Miracles and StoneBlade variations, however.

I've found it better against Miracles because Moggcatcher and Seige Gang allow you to commit to the board without eating all your threats in your hand to do so.

From years of trying all the different versions, Goblins is better against everything except stoneblade, death and taxes and burn. But it is much worse against those deck because SoFaI or a bunch of burn spells just leave you with no threats where that isn't true with Dragons or the other bigger varieties.

[Blastoderm]

I've been playing 2x "Mom and Dad Chandra" in Moggcatcher with some success. I've also been thinking of moving Trinisphere to the SB and bringing 4 Revoker in the main... thoughts?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I've also been thinking of moving Trinisphere to the SB and bringing 4 Revoker in the main... thoughts?
I've been running with all or most of my 3balls in the sideboard for months without regret. Although I do run 3 Scab-Clan Berserkers main deck.

If my memory is correct, your Moggcatcher targets are exclusively Siege-Gang Commanders, right?
Revokers seem fine! I'm not convinced 4 are necessary though. Are you running equipment too? Which ones?

[LeoCop 90]

the goblin build is reallt weak to punishing fire. it really sucks losing your moggcatcher to a shock. overall i prefer it for its versatility

[Ace/Homebrew]

Another weekly came and went. Went a mediocre 2-2 this week.

Main
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Magma Jet
3 Fiery Confluence

Sideboard
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Trinisphere
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker

Changes from last time are:
-2 Magus of the Wheel
+1 Thunderbreak Regent
+1 Sin Prodder


R1: Miracles, 1-2
R2: Burn, 2-0
R3: Dredge, 0-2
R4: Eldrazi, 2-1

Game 1 for Miracles we both mulled to 5. I proceeded to win the cripple fight. Game 2 he lead with Top, I lead with Chalice @ 1. He went "land, go". I tried to resolve a TKS but he had Counterspell. Would have won that game if I was on the play. :rolleyes: Got mana flooded game 3...

My Burn match-up got better because Thunderbreak Regents are 4/4 and SoWaP gains me back some life. I was fortunate enough to land a Chalice @ 1 both games. Him getting stuck on 1 land in the second game certainly helped.

Game 2 against Dredge I started with Chalice @ 1 and it should have been Chalice @ 0. Oh well. Looks like last time I played Dredge (and won the round), my opponent mulled to 5 both games he lost. That didn't happen this time.

Eldrazi continues to look like an unlosable match-up. Seriously, I just mull to a turn 1 Moon on the play and win. It might as well be a 5 color deck.



Sin Prodder got exiled under Chrome Mox at least once during the night (maybe twice), and got boarded out in a few games. I actually cast it once against Eldrazi. One trigger showed a Blood Moon when I didn't already have one on board. That did 3 damage to my opponent. I missed the other trigger, but it would have been a land and the other card I'd have drawn wouldn't have gotten me out of the hole I was already in that game. Menace was relevant though. Still needs more testing.

[ZTurgeon]

the goblin build is reallt weak to punishing fire. it really sucks losing your moggcatcher to a shock. overall i prefer it for its versatility

It's not weak to punishing fire, in that you are very favored vs punishing fire decks on the back of the lock pieces. Decks like Lands and Jund that play the punishing fire engine tend to fold to the blood moon half of the deck.

Where it is weak is to Molten Vortex, and that might need to be addressed if people move to that route.

[LeoCop 90]

Yeah, usually punishing fire decks are weak to blood moon, but we don't always have that turn one moon and, especially against jund, they may strip it turn 1 with thoughtseize, or land a deathrite shaman, or just draw into their basics. In any case, if blood moon doesn't win the game, having say a thunderbreak regent instead of a moggcatcher could be crucial against a deck that plays punishing fire/lightning bolt.

[Zupponn]

For instance? I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on which match-ups in particular are improved. And I guess which get worse.

I guess the specific example I'm thinking of is the Enchantress matchup, although it's not extremely popular. Merfolk, Miracles, and anything with Liliana seem improved as well.

[rlesko]

Whats the verdict on Aftershock? Love the (potential) versatility. I just ordered some rabblemasters, Fiery Confluences, and scab clan berserkers :cool:

Also @ Ace / anyone can answer this

what Matchups does blood moon do the least work in? Thinking about the TKS sideboard.

Additionally, is there a recommended split of 3 drops vs 4 drops? I have so many different stompy "flex" cards, koth, rakka mar, chandra, rakdos pit dragon, gathan raiders, prophetic flamespeaker etc. I have no idea how to put them all together :confused:

It seems like most of the cards i've outlined above go into a "hellbent" build, thats gone out of flavor. But what about a card like Koth? Still good enough or no?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Went 3-1 this week!

Main
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sin Prodder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magma Jet
3 Fiery Confluence
2 Koth of the Hammer

Sideboard
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Trinisphere
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker

Changes from last time are:
-3 Scab-Clan Berserker
+1 Magma Jet
+2 Koth of the Hammer

Storm is on the decline. I made a last second call to drop the Berserkers.

R1: Imperial Taxes, 2-1
R2: RUG Delver, 1-2
R3: 4C Delver, 2-0
R4: Dark Maverick 2-0

Fiery Confluence stole game 2 against Imperial Taxes giving me the chance to win a third game.
The games against RUG were close. 4C Delver and Mav were not. :smile:

Fiery Confluence was the MVP this week, destroying a Jitte with 5 counters on it against Mav. Turns out Thunderbreak Regent is real good against Jitte counters. :wink:

Sin Prodder never entered my hand. But it was in my deck for every game I played this week.

@rlesko - I drop Moons automatically against Burn, Painters, Goblins, Imperial Taxes, any deck that can shrug off Blood Moon. I'm also likely to switch to TKS, Revoker, and 3Sphere against Storm combo and Dredge. Depending on how I'm feeling, or if I think I'll catch my opponent off guard, I'll do the same against Miracles or Elves.

I've really liked Prophetic Flamespeaker and Thunderbreak Regent lately.

[Esper3k]

If you like Flamespeaker, try him with Jitte or SoFI for extra insanity.

[Ace/Homebrew]

If you like Flamespeaker, try him with Jitte or SoFI for extra insanity.
Oh I have. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=922297&viewfull=1#post922297) :cool:

[The Crow's Eye]

Geier Reach Bandit

Has anyone tried this in the main? 3/2 hasty for 2R seems good.

Flamespeaker is the real deal, eh? It seems like it takes so long to get the guy fully tricked out with your equipment, but maybe its just me. That's what's deterred me from trying him out.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Geier Reach Bandit/Vildin-Pack Alpha
Has anyone tried this in the main? 3/2 hasty for 2R seems good.
I have foil playsets of that and Breakneck Rider/Neck Breaker scheduled to arrive Saturday. :smile:

I don't expect these to make Werewolf Stompy more playable than other versions of the deck, but I wanted to test it before writing it off.

[The Crow's Eye]

Thanks, I wasn't planning on going full werewolf; more like I just wanted another 3-drop that could explode at the drop of a hat. It seemed like GRB was my gal; she looks like she suffers from the same problems as Rabblemaster, that being the small toughness whereas the power is pretty , ah, powerful.

[Octopusman]

I have foil playsets of that and Breakneck Rider/Neck Breaker scheduled to arrive Saturday. :smile:

I don't expect these to make Werewolf Stompy more playable than other versions of the deck, but I wanted to test it before writing it off.

Bandit intrigues me for sure. I think following her up with Instigator Gang is probably better than Rider. Maybe we'll get some more/better werewolves next set.
Curious to hear how it goes!

[rlesko]

@rlesko - I drop Moons automatically against Burn, Painters, Goblins, Imperial Taxes, any deck that can shrug off Blood Moon. I'm also likely to switch to TKS, Revoker, and 3Sphere against Storm combo and Dredge. Depending on how I'm feeling, or if I think I'll catch my opponent off guard, I'll do the same against Miracles or Elves.

I've really liked Prophetic Flamespeaker and Thunderbreak Regent lately.

What about vs Miracles? Is shutting off their fetches in the face of SDT worth it? I could see switching to TKS + Revoker for your moons vs them. 3sphere also seems sub par vs them, correct?

How is 3sphere vs lands? One the reasons I'm drawn to this deck is the fact that is has very favorable match ups vs lands and eldrazi. If I was boarding vs lands, I would probably board in all the revokers, cut the magma jets, and I can see arguments to add faerie macabre as well as 3 sphere for the fiery confluences / koths?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Went 3-1 again last night.

Main deck:
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon

4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Koth of the Hammer

4 Magma Jet
3 Fiery Confluence


Sideboard:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Trinisphere
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker



Changes from last time are:
-1 Sin Prodder
+1 Prophetic Flamespeaker

R1: Burn, 2-0
R2: Shardless BUG, 1-2
R3: Mono :g: 12 Post, 2-0
R4: ANT, 2-1

No real comments this week...



@rlesko - I agree that 3sphere is sub-par against Miracles. Definitely bring in Revokers. I'd probably go:
-4 Blood Moon
-4 Magus of the Moon
+4 Thought-Knot Seer
+3 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Trinisphere

3sphere against Lands can be tricky. If you keep Turn 1 Trinisphere and they keep Wastelands, Ports, and Loam then you're in trouble. I'd keep in Fiery Confluence personally. Hitting their artifacts (especially Mox Diamonds) can keep them from getting back in a game, otherwise it throws damage at their face.

[square_two]

Went 3-1 again last night.
...
2 Sword of War and Peace
...


Do you feel like the 2 SoWP are the best equipments for Flamespeaker and Rabble? I'm pretty close to having cards for this list, might give it a try sometime if my local scene ever picks back up.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Do you feel like the 2 SoWP are the best equipments for Flamespeaker and Rabble? I'm pretty close to having cards for this list, might give it a try sometime if my local scene ever picks back up.
I don't think you can really go wrong with either SoWaP, SoFaI, or Jitte... I personally like the protection against :r: and :w: and believe SoWaP has higher potential to win a race while SoFaI and Jitte can better control the board. Your mileage may vary. :wink:

[rlesko]

@rlesko - I agree that 3sphere is sub-par against Miracles. Definitely bring in Revokers. I'd probably go:
-4 Blood Moon
-4 Magus of the Moon
+4 Thought-Knot Seer
+3 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Trinisphere

3sphere against Lands can be tricky. If you keep Turn 1 Trinisphere and they keep Wastelands, Ports, and Loam then you're in trouble. I'd keep in Fiery Confluence personally. Hitting their artifacts (especially Mox Diamonds) can keep them from getting back in a game, otherwise it throws damage at their face.

Good point about 3 sphere vs lands. It would seem dubious to try and go land drop for land drop in an 18 lands deck vs 36 :frown:

I see you lost to shardless bug this week, do you think that is a bad match up? I played shardless for a bit and I always hated playing vs blood moons.

As I said before having positive match ups vs eldrazi and lands is really drawing me to the deck. Can you comment on the pros / cons of your current list to the one you ran here? http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=922297&viewfull=1#post922297

I like a lot of things in that build, such as the avalanche riders to screw up any basics which have already made their way in play, or to continually deter them from making 3 lands to play through 3 sphere.

I've noticed 18 vs 20 lands (With the inclusion of 4 caverns, I see a heavy human tribal approach there).

1. Do you think running scab clan and trinipshere are mutually exclusive?
2. I like Koth as a threat thats not able to be answered via terminus / abrupt decay / other creature removal. Do you think you can't play Koth if you're playing the 8 mountain 4 cavern mana base?
3. Why is the list with a seemingly lower mana curve playing 20 lands vs your list which plays 18?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I see you lost to shardless bug this week, do you think that is a bad match up? I played shardless for a bit and I always hated playing vs blood moons.
My Shardless opponent hates playing against me, or at least says he does. :laugh:
Game 1 he kept 5 cards and I kept 7 (a no-lander with 2 moxen and 2 Spirit Guides, I was all-in on a turn 1 Flamespeaker). At the end of my first turn I had 1 card in hand. I won the cripple fight.
Game 2 I kept 5 and he kept 7 (he also resolved all 4 Ancestral Visions...). All things considered, I put up a good fight.
Game 3 I kept a hand that was all in on a turn 1 Rabblemaster with a Fiery Confluence and not much else. I believe he mulled to 6 and kept a hand with Force of Will. He countered my Rabblemaster and played a Goyf. Goyf hit me for 3 a turn while I drew land. :rolleyes:


As I said before having positive match ups vs eldrazi and lands is really drawing me to the deck. Can you comment on the pros / cons of your current list to the one you ran here? http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19745-Deck-Dragon-Stompy&p=922297&viewfull=1#post922297
The list I have been using lately is far more resilient to Punishing Fire. I have frequently used Fiery Confluence with either a Flamespeaker, Regent, or both on board to do 2 damage to creatures (and then hit face or an artifact), which is always a blowout.
I would argue that the Human list is better (game 1) against a meta where Storm combo has a presence. I believe the Storm matchup in my current list goes from even/draw dependent to highly favored after boarding (- Blood Moon, - Magus of the Moon, -2 Magma Jet/-1 Fiery Confluence; + Thought-Knot Seer, + Trinisphere, + Phyrexian Revoker).


1. Do you think running scab clan and trinipshere are mutually exclusive?
2. I like Koth as a threat thats not able to be answered via terminus / abrupt decay / other creature removal. Do you think you can't play Koth if you're playing the 8 mountain 4 cavern mana base?
3. Why is the list with a seemingly lower mana curve playing 20 lands vs your list which plays 18?
1. I do not, when I last used SCB I had a 2/2 split main deck (with the other 2/2 in the sideboard). Against Storm I would use all 8 cards. Otherwise I would usually use the better of the 2 games 2 and 3 while the lesser went in the board. The main thing SCB has going for it over Trinisphere is that it is a red non-artifact card (and therefore can be imprinted on Chrome Mox).
2. It is probably easier if you go 9 Mountain/3 Cavern or 10 Mountain/2 Cavern. I would say the more copies of Koth you run, the more Mountains you should use. If he's a one-of then you are probably fine with 8 and 4.
3. An argument could be made that the Human list is more mana-intensive (with echo and equip costs factored in), but I believe the main reason (the Human list is nedleeds', so honestly he'd have to explain his reasoning :wink:) is because of Cavern of Souls. You can't just cut 4 Mountains and add 4 Caverns. I suspect that upping the land count by 2 mitigates the potential damage of adding more non-basic Mountains. I have seen lists that use 4 Caverns cut 1 or 2 Chrome Mox too.

[rlesko]

The list I have been using lately is far more resilient to Punishing Fire. I have frequently used Fiery Confluence with either a Flamespeaker, Regent, or both on board to do 2 damage to creatures (and then hit face or an artifact), which is always a blowout.
I would argue that the Human list is better (game 1) against a meta where Storm combo has a presence. I believe the Storm matchup in my current list goes from even/draw dependent to highly favored after boarding (- Blood Moon, - Magus of the Moon, -2 Magma Jet/-1 Fiery Confluence; + Thought-Knot Seer, + Trinisphere, + Phyrexian Revoker).

Fiery Confluence does seem like an excellent main deck answer to cards such as Young P, Mentor, DRS, D&T etc and to keep board control. Storm has all but disappeared with the Eldrazi Menace around locally so I'm not too worried about that. On that same note, it seems like Goblin Rabblemaster is a bit random. I know he has excellent damage potential if unmolested but he dies to nearly ever form of removal and doesn't have haste. Is this just due to a lack of better options? Have you tried out additional dragons in that slot for synergy with thunderbreak regent or more prison elements such as 2 Trinisphere (thus freeing up sideboard slots).

Do you leave in blood moon vs D&T? On one hand I don't think I want to take 2 damage per ancient tomb activation. On the other hand, I might want the extra mana to play through thalia. On the OTHER hand (3 hands), Getting wasteland / ported out of the game seems awful. This seems like a bad match up, why not devote 2 Anarchy in the SB for it?

[Ace/Homebrew]

It seems like Goblin Rabblemaster is a bit random. I know he has excellent damage potential if unmolested but he dies to nearly ever form of removal and doesn't have haste. Is this just due to a lack of better options?
He's really an excellent card for this deck. He has the ideal mana cost (:2::r:) and under a lock (or stall) he can win the game on his own quickly. He also has the 'Goblin Guide Effect', where if you open on a hand with 2 and the ability to play them on turns 1 and 2, your chances of winning skyrocket. I had to be sold on him initially, but it was an easy sale once I actually tried him out.


Have you tried out additional dragons in that slot for synergy with thunderbreak regent or more prison elements such as 2 Trinisphere (thus freeing up sideboard slots).
Dragons mean increasing the average mana cost in the deck. There are definitely builds that could benefit from Stormbreath Dragon, but not this one (I think Stormbreath would be amazing in a list that uses full playsets of Seething Song and Koth of the Hammer). I suppose Taurean Mauler is a dragon, but without Regent out the Mauler is unimpressive.


Do you leave in blood moon vs D&T? On one hand I don't think I want to take 2 damage per ancient tomb activation. On the other hand, I might want the extra mana to play through thalia. On the OTHER hand (3 hands), Getting wasteland / ported out of the game seems awful. This seems like a bad match up, why not devote 2 Anarchy in the SB for it?
Anarchy is an amazing card that absolutely wrecks 1 match up... On top of that, sometimes they equip Phyrexian Revoker with SoFaI and are able to limit the effect of Anarchy. I've found I'd rather play Fiery Confluence.
If the opponent is on Imperial Painter, I'm more inclined to board out all my Moons. In the past I would often board out the Blood Moons while keeping in the Maguses against mono-:w: D&T. With my current build I would probably board out of Blood Moon and board into TKS, Revoker, and 1 Trinisphere.

[rlesko]

He's really an excellent card for this deck. He has the ideal mana cost (:2::r:) and under a lock (or stall) he can win the game on his own quickly. He also has the 'Goblin Guide Effect', where if you open on a hand with 2 and the ability to play them on turns 1 and 2, your chances of winning skyrocket. I had to be sold on him initially, but it was an easy sale once I actually tried him out.
Interesting. I guess I have a small aversion to him since he seems to be a nonbo with fiery confluence, dies to punishing fire, and doesn't trigger off thunderbreak. Do you find theres a lot of stalled out board states even without trinisphere?



Dragons mean increasing the average mana cost in the deck. There are definitely builds that could benefit from Stormbreath Dragon, but not this one (I think Stormbreath would be amazing in a list that uses full playsets of Seething Song and Koth of the Hammer). I suppose Taurean Mauler is a dragon, but without Regent out the Mauler is unimpressive.

What about Avaricious Dragon? I agree I don't like going to 5cmc without running seething songs or more lands. But another 4/4 flyer for 4 doesn't seem bad, and his drawback doesn't even seem like much of a drawback.



Anarchy is an amazing card that absolutely wrecks 1 match up... On top of that, sometimes they equip Phyrexian Revoker with SoFaI and are able to limit the effect of Anarchy. I've found I'd rather play Fiery Confluence.
If the opponent is on Imperial Painter, I'm more inclined to board out all my Moons. In the past I would often board out the Blood Moons while keeping in the Maguses against mono-:w: D&T. With my current build I would probably board out of Blood Moon and board into TKS, Revoker, and 1 Trinisphere.
Fair enough. Fiery Confluence seems like an All star...

[Ace/Homebrew]

Do you find theres a lot of stalled out board states even without trinisphere?
Definitely! A Blood Mooned opponent with basics in their library and 0-1 basic on the board is usually in a stall. Likewise, Chalice @ 1 is never a lock but often a stall.


What about Avaricious Dragon?
I have trouble getting past the situation where I cast it and pass the turn, discarding my hand. Then my opponent untaps and plows it...

Other than that, it's often a matter of space. I have eight 4 drops. I'd have to give up Koths or Confluences or raise my curve by cutting cheaper cards.

And if Rabblemaster is the low man on the totem pole, I still think it is better than Avaricious Dragon (while admittedly being easier to kill). The dragon comes down a turn later and takes 5 turns to kill with a single body. Rabblemaster kills in 4 turns with several bodies.

[Sergi]

What about Avaricious Dragon? I agree I don't like going to 5cmc without running seething songs or more lands. But another 4/4 flyer for 4 doesn't seem bad, and his drawback doesn't even seem like much of a drawback

My experience with avaricious dragon is that the dragon generates conflicts with magma jet and confluences as you can't keep in hand for using in the right moment. On the other side is excellent with ensnaring bridge.

For Goblin rabblemaster I have similar thoughts as Riesko, against cards as Thalia is almost useless. Maybe is time for Taurean again, as seems a good complement to Berserker.

[The Crow's Eye]

You will find a couple of DS decks that play 2x Avaricious Dragon over at MTC TC Decks. Here's what I'd do for a Stormbreath Dragon build. It uses the Hellbent skeleton, dropping the Hellbent elements for more reliable offense:

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Thunderbreak Regent
3x Stormbreath Dragon

3x Koth of the Hammer

4x Seething Song
4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
4x Chrome Mox

4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
11x Mountain

Numbers may need some tinkering here and there, but the idea is that you drop the Taurean Mauler for Rabblemaster, and Koth's there in place of Gathan Raiders while Regent takes the place of Rakdos Pit Dragon and SBD is there in place of Arc Slogger.

[TMPWDobs]

I have foil playsets of that and Breakneck Rider/Neck Breaker scheduled to arrive Saturday. :smile:

I don't expect these to make Werewolf Stompy more playable than other versions of the deck, but I wanted to test it before writing it off.

Mike Werewolf Stompy went 5-2 At GP NY sideevent missing top 8 on last round

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/4ihbwl/tournament_report_legacy_showdown_gp_ny_werewolf/

[Ace/Homebrew]

Mike Werewolf Stompy went 5-2 At GP NY sideevent missing top 8 on last round

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/4ihbwl/tournament_report_legacy_showdown_gp_ny_werewolf/
Nice find Zach! Interesting that he used Rabblemaster instead of more werewolves.

[The Crow's Eye]

How long does it take for you to start profiting from Prophetic Flamespeaker once you've cast him?

[Ace/Homebrew]

How long does it take for you to start profiting from Prophetic Flamespeaker once you've cast him?
Immediately?
You untap, attack to see what he reveals, then play any lands he shows and evaluate whether to play any exiled cards or cards from hand.

[The Crow's Eye]

Thanks, that's how I'd been using Flamespeaker too. Without any equipment, how often to you find him dealing damage to get his effect?

Also, I'm playing Gerardo Heidel's list - if you have your 3Sphere in the SB, I endorse the use of Coercive Portal - its really great combo'd with Flamespeaker and Chandra, Pyromaster.

[Sergi]

Why we are not icluding some number of red fetchlands? Maybe 6 mountains / 4 fetches? Lategame with moon on table they will be mountains anyway and could improve draws filtering. I don't know if this topic was already discussed.

[ZTurgeon]

Why we are not icluding some number of red fetchlands? Maybe 6 mountains / 4 fetches? Lategame with moon on table they will be mountains anyway and could improve draws filtering. I don't know if this topic was already discussed.

The filtering is so small that it negligible. Additionally, they fuel enemy deathrite shamans.

[Ace/Homebrew]

The filtering is so small that it negligible. Additionally, they fuel enemy deathrite shamans.
And Price of Progress. The math on this has been done... It's something like 4 fetchlands equate to one non-land card drawn over a land. Not worth it even if you could run 12 fetchlands to actually use 4 in one game.

@ Crow's Eye - Often! Basically any time it is unfavorable for the opponent to block. Most won't sacrifice their board presence unless it is a trade or when not blocking will kill them. My favorite reveal is usually a 2nd Flamespeaker. :wink:

[frogger42]

Hi! Long-time Chalice player, first time (possibly) red player. I was digging through some European lists this past BoM, and I think a couple of them really stuck out at me. They just kind of have upgraded a lot of the stuff going on.

And I'm going to be honest - not a huge fan of the TB Regent. It's 4/4 for 4... a lot of things are bigger at 2-3 CMC. I'd opt for something more versatile instead.

10 Mountains
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 FTK
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker


Card choices: FTK/Skarhan, the other FTK for creature removal. These both help your Rabblemaster get through and finish games in 2 turns.
SoFI - I love my Chalice @ 2, so dropping Jitte for SoFI seems weird, but I'm going to try it. Also, a lot of these guys are ground-pounders, so getting a True-Name in the way would really get me punk'd.
Scab-Clan - With only really 4 Chalice to thwart combo, Scab-Clan seems like the other 4 slots to stop them. Another card I bought this week was Sin Prodder, but I think this card is more consistent and maybe powerful, even.

I won't have time to really test this week, but the SB would have Revoker and T Crypt. Thoughts on anything obvious I'm missing?

EDIT: This list is called "1-Dragon Stompy"