[Deck] Goblins

[TsumiBand]

Bit of an elephant in the room for me: why aunties hovel?

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I don't want to put words in the OP's mouth, but I'd venture to guess that it's either:

a budget concession at one point or another - the list also has Cavern of Souls, which I guess puts it after Innistrad Block yeah, so Blood Crypts being the next best land for the job may have been in high demand; they 'had them lying around' and they are probably at least as playable as most alternatives; there are very few other two-color lands that don't ETB tapped unconditionally, or don't require life in some way.
Speaking from experience a couple years back, it's embarrassing and stupid when your aggro deck (in my case Naya Zoo) gets out-aggroed by something that it shouldn't (...Merfolk) because you ended up paying 6+ life because you had to crack fetchlands for untapped shocklands. Honestly in a dedicated tribal deck that doesn't care about land types (eg, no Kird Apes or lousy 'Domain matters' effects) those Lorwyn lands are fine mana fixers.

They aren't Badlands, but they are far more playable than many other cards.

[ScatmanX]

On the 15th I'll be attending a big tournament (200+) here in Brazil (which I believe ScatmanX is also going to play, hehe), so I'm testing a list designed to beat a combo-heavy meta like the one I'm predicting.
Your list is good for Rw. I'd find room for at least 1 Tarfire md though, going -1 Piledriver.
Also, if your equipment prediction is right, having a Tuktuk somewhere on the list, probably in place of 3rd Wear/Tear, might be very good.
The rest of the deck/side is fine.

I'll see you there =]

@Barbed Blightning: He only have 1 Badland.

[Sandro95]

Hi everyone, so I went 4-0 in the local legacy tournament today. We were ten players, and I won about 20 dollars in store credit. So I'm pretty happy about that! Anyway, round 1 I was up against Maverick with a black splash and a natural order package.

R1 GWb Maverick
My opponent kept a one-lander and bricked for a couple of turns, and things went pretty smooth from there. G2 I lost to a big KotR followed up by a NO for Progenitus. I made a misplay here in running out a Krenko when my opponent had a lethal KotR in play and I had a Chieftain. My opponent plowed Chieftain in response and I was forced to chump. I should have cast something else first and played Krenko next turn instead. That way I would have gotten him online even through a StP. I won G3 with a Tarfire on Dryad Arbor and a Wasteland for my opponents Dual though, so I moved on to r2.

R2 UW Miracles
G1 went long, with me playing around Terminus and the Entreat the Angels that he somehow never saw. Late in the game I feared my opponent would simply make a ton of 4/4s and end the game on the spot, but he didn't, and I won.
G2 I played a CotV on 1 t2. After that I played hastelord > Krenko + Piledriver. My opponent had two STPs in hand that he couldn't cast.

R3 I faced merfolks. Not much to say here, it's a very favorable matchup.

R4 Tezzeret

Turns out this is quite a good matchup for goblins, as it doesn't have too much interaction with us. G2 I managed to hit 2 Tezzerets with a blind Cabal Therapy. That also felt pretty sweet. I feel confident about my list, though I'm still trying things out, tweaking the numbers.

I tested the one-of Sparksmith MB, and he was good against the Maverick deck. Other than that I didn't face the decks I wanted to try it against, so not much data here. It's possible it should be a 2nd Tarfire instead.

[magicmerl]

I think it's not fair to make a distinction between "Winstigator lists" and "versions that are winning". In fact WInstigator lists are just as successful as others (ref. to my analysis) - it's only that you won't find them on weekly SCG tourneys (for whatever reason).
Sure, I remember the Winstigator lists put up results in your analysis. Has that changed over time? What about recently?


Second, I find it wrong to state that CLASSIC lists play inherently more powerful cards than WInstigator lists.
You're right. I was really talking about the lists that splash white, because of the power that white brings in shoring up all of the decks bad matchups.

RIP is the best GY hate. Thalia is the best Storm hate. Wear//Tear is the best Disenchant effect. etc. TBH I think that the goblin shell is almost incidental to the deck (which is why I see this as being similar to a D&T deck. just sub in a different engine and the matchups don't change terribly).


I'm advocating the B splash too. Earwig Squad is indeed insane and I think he's got MD potential. I mean: even IF you can#t rip something meaningful he will at least be a freaking 5/3 body for 1B or 2B in 99% of the cases. We should not forget that you technically CAN put him into play via Lackey/Winstigator, although it's not optimal.

Second reason for B splash would be Cabal Therapy. This card is so freaking powerful. However given the decks we have to beat right now I think that Cabal Therapy will only be comin in against combo (Storm and S&T) and maybe SFM.dec.

Third: Perish is such a good SB choice right now. I know I'm repeating myself, but just take a look at the popular creatures. DRS, Goyf, Scavooze, Mongoose...Elves. Also I think that Sudden Demise is strictly worse than Perish (and Pyrokinesis). What I like about Perish is that it doesn't make compromises. Cast it, resolve it, go to attack phase. I don't want to find myself in such awkward situations where you cast it for 3R just to kill DRS, and probably a small Ooze ...and Tarmogoyfs survives. You should realive that you never actually get to kill Tarmogoyf with it (and probably neither 3/3 Mongoose or Scavenging Ooze). It's certainly good against ELves and some other random non-green aggro deck, but I don't think that this superior to Pyrokinesis in those MU, because, you know Pyrokinesis costs 0 mana. And is an instant.
I hate to be intellectually lazy like this, but have black lists been putting up results ever? Sorry, I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything, but if the list was good, wouldn't it have results? I tried the black splash. What I found was that I'm not nearly good enough as a magic player to play Cabal Therapy well. When Krenko came out all desire I had to run Wort vanished and hasn't been seen since. Earwig Squad was too slow for me at 3 mana (really, our current combo hate feels too slow at 2 mana as well....). And Perish is good. Just not as good as the white splash.


I cut a 1-of goblin chieftain for skirk prospector, since true-name nemesis might make a big appearance
Um, I'm a fan of Prospector over Chiftain, but not because of TNN.


Would like to hear your thoughts about the list and the sideboard.
4 CitR seems like an enormous amount of fear of S&T. You can probably cut at least one of them, since you will be bringing in Tear as well, right?
Chalice of the Void has been good for me, and I think I like it more than your REBs or the 4th CitR.

Other than that, pretty solid deck. I agree with Scatmax, suggestion of a Tarfire over Piledriver #4.

[GreenShorty]

Sneak and show decks are everywhere around here, lol.

I also like cotv a lot, but chalice + thalia seems wrong to me. Wouldn't it be a bit too much against storm/burn etc? Idk, seems that way to me... On the other hand, a 3-3 split between cotv and CitR could hit a bigger chunk of the meta. Yeah, now I'll have to think about that, lol.

Aside from combo (specially those based around SnT), I believe equipments will show up a lot, so that's why prospector + 3 wear/tear were brought in. Doesn't matter if prospector won't stop TNN, as long as he stops every other equiped creature. =P

I'll try to test the 1-of tarfire over a piledriver and see if it works. =)

Thanks for the feedback!

[jrw1985]

I played a Rb list tonight and went 3-1.

4 Lackey
4 Vial
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Tarfire

2 Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
3 MWM
2 Warren Weirding

3 Gempalm
4 Matron
4 Warchief

4 Ringleader
1 Krenko
1 Tuktuk

3 Earwig Squad

4 Waste
4 Port
4 Cavern
3 Mountain
3 Badlands
4 Fetch

SB

3 Cabal Therapy
1 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Relic
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Piledriver
1 Sharpshooter

R1 D&T
2-0
I realized before this tourney (and posted on this forum) that Tuktuk definitely needs to be MD right now. Tuktuk destroyed a Jitte G1 and Earwig stripped the Batterskull. The game went pretty smoothly after that.

R2 Jund
0-2
This continues to be the most atrocious Match Up. G1 I manage to strip his Punishing Fires with Earwig Squad. Then I draw a bunch of lands and get too far behind. There was a moment where Sharpshooter could have gotten me back in it. I forgot that about Shapshooter. He lets you even out the board when you've gotten behind. If only for that he should be included MD. G2 I side in 3 Relic and 1 Surgical Extraction and 1 Extirpate. But he has the Abrupt Decay for my Vial, and I can't draw what I need to get back in it. I Matron for a Krenko (my only real hope at that point) and a Bloodbraid Elf Cascades into a Lilliana to make me discard Krenko. Blech.

R3 Goblin Welder (MUD)
2-1
I mull to 6 G1 and just get crushed! I only play a Waste, then scoop so he doesn't know what I'm on. Mana denial was clutch to help me win G2 and 3. I was able to run the game pretty well through Port and Waste. Pyrokinesis was also a huge plus, since it let me blow-up his huge guys quickly.

R4 Belcher
G1 I mull to 6 on the draw. My hand is Piledriver, Warchief, Ringeader, and 3 lands. Totally keepable. My opponent makes 6 goblins T1 and I do some math and realize I'm not dead. We play it out and a couple MWMs keep me in it, then a Krenko overwhelms the board. For G2 I side in CT and MbT. He shows his hand of 2xBelchers T1 (Land Grant) but doesn't cast either. I rip a CT off the top and strip them. He can't win. He Wishes for Pyroclasm and kills my board. I get back in it.

I learned today that the MD doesn't want or need 3 Earwig Squad. I think 1 is playable MD, but not 3.
Warren Weirding was great all day. It did work against DnT and MUD.
Tuktuk did a lot of work.
Jund is still terrible to play against. Every single card they play just sucks for us. Fuck it. I'll start siding Perish.

[Sandro95]

I played a Rb list tonight and went 3-1.

4 Lackey
4 Vial
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Tarfire

2 Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
3 MWM
2 Warren Weirding

3 Gempalm
4 Matron
4 Warchief

4 Ringleader
1 Krenko
1 Tuktuk

3 Earwig Squad

4 Waste
4 Port
4 Cavern
3 Mountain
3 Badlands
4 Fetch

SB

3 Cabal Therapy
1 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Relic
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Piledriver
1 Sharpshooter

R1 D&T
2-0
I realized before this tourney (and posted on this forum) that Tuktuk definitely needs to be MD right now. Tuktuk destroyed a Jitte G1 and Earwig stripped the Batterskull. The game went pretty smoothly after that.

R2 Jund
0-2
This continues to be the most atrocious Match Up. G1 I manage to strip his Punishing Fires with Earwig Squad. Then I draw a bunch of lands and get too far behind. There was a moment where Sharpshooter could have gotten me back in it. I forgot that about Shapshooter. He lets you even out the board when you've gotten behind. If only for that he should be included MD. G2 I side in 3 Relic and 1 Surgical Extraction and 1 Extirpate. But he has the Abrupt Decay for my Vial, and I can't draw what I need to get back in it. I Matron for a Krenko (my only real hope at that point) and a Bloodbraid Elf Cascades into a Lilliana to make me discard Krenko. Blech.

R3 Goblin Welder (MUD)
2-1
I mull to 6 G1 and just get crushed! I only play a Waste, then scoop so he doesn't know what I'm on. Mana denial was clutch to help me win G2 and 3. I was able to run the game pretty well through Port and Waste. Pyrokinesis was also a huge plus, since it let me blow-up his huge guys quickly.

R4 Belcher
G1 I mull to 6 on the draw. My hand is Piledriver, Warchief, Ringeader, and 3 lands. Totally keepable. My opponent makes 6 goblins T1 and I do some math and realize I'm not dead. We play it out and a couple MWMs keep me in it, then a Krenko overwhelms the board. For G2 I side in CT and MbT. He shows his hand of 2xBelchers T1 (Land Grant) but doesn't cast either. I rip a CT off the top and strip them. He can't win. He Wishes for Pyroclasm and kills my board. I get back in it.

I learned today that the MD doesn't want or need 3 Earwig Squad. I think 1 is playable MD, but not 3.
Warren Weirding was great all day. It did work against DnT and MUD.
Tuktuk did a lot of work.
Jund is still terrible to play against. Every single card they play just sucks for us. Fuck it. I'll start siding Perish.

Hehe, nice one versus Belcher there! Conserning Warren Weirding, in what ways do you think it was superior to a tarfire? I'm playing the black splash myself, so naturally, I'm considering the card. :)

[Sasan]

Warren Weirding can help in the TNN meta.

[Sandro95]

Warren Weirding can help in the TNN meta.

That is very true! I'll make sure to get some playtesting in against TNN before my next larger tournament. Has anyone here had any games versus it? What are your conclusions/speculations? I can see it being very good at carrying a Jitte against us. :)

[Ingo]

I played a Rb list tonight and went 3-1.
I learned today that the MD doesn't want or need 3 Earwig Squad. I think 1 is playable MD, but not 3.


I found the reports of RB goblins very interesting, since RB doesn't seem to be played much anymore.
The conclusion regarding Earwig Squad I thought was strange though, seems like you did some relevant stuff with it (extracting Pfire, stripping batterskull).
Could you elaborate on it? Wouldn't you also want to maindeck it as preboard hate vs combo?
I think the problem of EWS is that it comes down too late, but running more skirk prospectors could improve it (as its both a turn-two attacker, and sacs itself for an extra mana).

In RB-sideboard, I have good experiences with surgical extraction along with cabal therapy, and I replaced relic with it as there's perish to compensate against goyfs and mongeese.

[Sandro95]

I found the reports of RB goblins very interesting, since RB doesn't seem to be played much anymore.
The conclusion regarding Earwig Squad I thought was strange though, seems like you did some relevant stuff with it (extracting Pfire, stripping batterskull).
Could you elaborate on it? Wouldn't you also want to maindeck it as preboard hate vs combo?
I think the problem of EWS is that it comes down too late, but running more skirk prospectors could improve it (as its both a turn-two attacker, and sacs itself for an extra mana).

In RB-sideboard, I have good experiences with surgical extraction along with cabal therapy, and I replaced relic with it as there's perish to compensate against goyfs and mongeese.

Surgical Extraction is interesting in combination with Cabal Therapy (and other discard spells as well, for that matter). I'd like to here more opinions on this. Also, what do people think of Extirpate vs Surgical Extraction? How many do you think it is correct to play?

Edit: Besides being able to exile all their copies of a relevant spell, Surgical Extraction would also work very well when your opponent responds to your discard spell with a Brainstorm, hiding their best cards. This really makes me want to try it out. :)

[max_goblin]

@jrw1985: Congrats on your results =]
I will think about running one tuk tuk MD probably in my flex slot (I was trying pyromancer and next would be mirror entity, but as the field is moving to more artifacts, I guess artifact hate MD is a really smart choice).

In Jund game, wouldnt better, in G1, remove grove of burnwillows instead? You can only remove one card, so if they draw it, it will work anyway, and you dont have gravehate MD, but you have waste MD, taking off their lands + waste/port in this match up seens really good.

I guess in most cases disrupting their mana base really seem solid when you can remove 3 old duals and attack the third with a waste or lock with rishadan port, well, in the early game, because after that, that should not work.

Did you think Earwig Squad is worth at MD? I want to hear your oppinion here too =]

Thankyou!

[GoboLord]

I hate to be intellectually lazy like this, but have black lists been putting up results ever? Sorry, I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything, but if the list was good, wouldn't it have results?
Several responses apply here.
* First, I remember Cedric Philips placing well with the B splash some time ago (probably more than a year ago).
* Rb Goblins won the first or second SCG tournament in ..uhm...2012 it was. Undefeated, as far as I'm concerned
* I have never piloted a Rb list to a result worse than Top 8.
* see jrw1985's latest tournament report
* see my latest tournament report

I don't know if those are viable arguments though - probably not. The thing is that I have always been looking to improve the deck (mostly with SB choices, which ulimately require splashcolors) and so far the B splash was the one that offered the most powerful cards. That is not to say that splashing W is not good or anything. It's just that from time to time your have to sit back and analyze the metagame and see what it brings. I got the impressions that there is an (1) incredible number of problematic, green creatures (including Elves) and (2) popular (storm)-combo decks. On that basis I was looking for cards to deal with the situation most effectively and Perish and Cabal Therapy are the most effective candidates IMO (I want to point out that recently someone else brought up Cabal Therapy as a solution to diversity of combo decks). Earwig Squad is open to discussion and I admit that part of my reason for playing him was "for the LOLs". However, Cabal Therapy and Perish both are very strong and efficient cards that are well suited for the current metagame requirements.

Another reason is that I don't feel comfortable with Thalia; neither do I think that we need excellent graveyard hate (RIP) right now. So, if I was to splash W it would only be for Wear//Tear. "my" Rb list is trying to make up for the missing Artifact/Enchantment hate with what you called "blinding speed" and ...well...Earwig Squad.

Oh, and about being intellectually lazy: I don't have problems with that. But, I like to invite people to ask their question differently (not for me but for themselves) - or at least ask more and more detailed questions. In addition to asking "has the B splash performing well recently?" you could also ask "has the B splash performing BAD recently?".

[Ingo]

Surgical Extraction is interesting in combination with Cabal Therapy (and other discard spells as well, for that matter). I'd like to here more opinions on this. Also, what do people think of Extirpate vs Surgical Extraction? How many do you think it is correct to play?

Edit: Besides being able to exile all their copies of a relevant spell, Surgical Extraction would also work very well when your opponent responds to your discard spell with a Brainstorm, hiding their best cards. This really makes me want to try it out. :)

The more discard, the better Surgical Extraction (and cabal therapy) gets. But relying on discard too much can be onesided (you can get bypassed by Leyline of Sanctity, or stormcombo can go of by topdecking the right card).
Also, in combo matchups, if you pack too much hate you thin your army and win too slow. SE is the weakest SBcard here, as it needs other discard to be (really) good. Also SE can be kinda winmore, as you preferably use it after a discard spell (and so already disrupting your opponent) and perhaps it should be a goblin instead.

Nevertheless, I am now on 4 CT, 3 SE and 2 Thoughtseize in my board. Discard buys me time to cast Earwig squad (who's in the main).
SE comes in with discard against storm combo, but not against show and tell.
I also run 3 perish. 3 flexcards remain (I am testing 2 Slaughter Games).
I prefer SE above Extirpate because its free, so I can cast goblins and port. But I have to admit that I did not test extirpate.

[jrw1985]

Hehe, nice one versus Belcher there! Conserning Warren Weirding, in what ways do you think it was superior to a tarfire? I'm playing the black splash myself, so naturally, I'm considering the card. :)

WW is superior to Tarfire because it kills everything. Lackey-WW openers are pretty ridiculous because you know Lackey is connecting t2. You can use Gempalm and Tarfire to clear the small creatures and WW off the big ones.

[jrw1985]

The conclusion regarding Earwig Squad I thought was strange though, seems like you did some relevant stuff with it (extracting Pfire, stripping batterskull).
Could you elaborate on it? Wouldn't you also want to maindeck it as preboard hate vs combo?
I think the problem of EWS is that it comes down too late, but running more skirk prospectors could improve it (as its both a turn-two attacker, and sacs itself for an extra mana).


EWS was relevant, but it was clunky. I resolved it against DnT both games, and I nearly lost g2 despite it. Against Jund EWS didn't do anything of relevance. It was just an overpriced blocker. And against Belcher it was too slow. So I'm not sticking with running 3 MD. I'll probably cut all three entirely and just accept that Earwig falls into the Danger of Doing Cool Things category. Yes, Jester's Cap is cool. No, it does not win games in Legacy.

[jrw1985]

@jrw1985: Congrats on your results =]
I will think about running one tuk tuk MD probably in my flex slot (I was trying pyromancer and next would be mirror entity, but as the field is moving to more artifacts, I guess artifact hate MD is a really smart choice).

In Jund game, wouldnt better, in G1, remove grove of burnwillows instead? You can only remove one card, so if they draw it, it will work anyway, and you dont have gravehate MD, but you have waste MD, taking off their lands + waste/port in this match up seens really good.

I guess in most cases disrupting their mana base really seem solid when you can remove 3 old duals and attack the third with a waste or lock with rishadan port, well, in the early game, because after that, that should not work.

Did you think Earwig Squad is worth at MD? I want to hear your oppinion here too =]

Thankyou!

Tuktuk did some work and was definitely worth the MD slot.

@Jund you're probably right. I should have stripped the groves. It would not have mattered anyway as I was never in a position to win either of my Jund games.

@Earwig is a little too cute for MD. If your going to run a 5cc card it would be nice if it either won you the game, was great at any stage of the game, or was at least on color. EW didn't really match that criteria. It is cool looking through your opponent's deck though.

[Sandro95]

WW is superior to Tarfire because it kills everything. Lackey-WW openers are pretty ridiculous because you know Lackey is connecting t2. You can use Gempalm and Tarfire to clear the small creatures and WW off the big ones.

I agree. What I am pondering is wether or not it is worth it to not be able to kill one-drops right a way, while on the draw, even though you can use WW against cards like Goyf, Mongoose, TNN & GoST. Obviously, there are several other factors at work at here as well (WW requiring black mana for example, or being less effective against elves). Both Warren Weirding and Tarfire are sweet cards though!

On the subject of Surgical Extraction (or Extirpate), I think that Extirpate would be better versus High Tide, because of the split second. High Tide isn't that common though. Versus other storm decks you could also use either of them to disrupt a Past in Flames turn.

[Barbed Blightning]

I don't think surgical (or extirpate) is where this deck wants to be. Honestly, in none of the matchups I've played in all the decks I've played with extraction effects has this card won me a game--or, for that matter, affected the game that much

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[jrw1985]

I don't think surgical (or extirpate) is where this deck wants to be. Honestly, in none of the matchups I've played in all the decks I've played with extraction effects has this card won me a game--or, for that matter, affected the game that much


I agree with you. SE and Extirpate are probably best in decks with Snapcasters anyway. The only time Extirpate was ever really good was for stripping Vengevines back when Survival was a card.

[Humphrey]

I agree with you. SE and Extirpate are probably best in decks with Snapcasters anyway. The only time Extirpate was ever really good was for stripping Vengevines back when Survival was a card.

Extraction won me enough games against dredge and reanimator (and some against Storm.) But since both decks pretty much left the meta, I prefer other options.

[Ingo]

I agree with you. SE and Extirpate are probably best in decks with Snapcasters anyway. The only time Extirpate was ever really good was for stripping Vengevines back when Survival was a card.


Extraction won me enough games against dredge and reanimator (and some against Storm.) But since both decks pretty much left the meta, I prefer other options.

I think it depends on the rest of your sideboard (and personal preference ofcourse).
If you have perish, you can board this against Goyf, mongeese or KOTR, instead of relic, and then SE is for me the most efficiënt gravehate without losing tempo.
Against storm I had occasional wins with SE, extracting lotus petal, infernal tutor or LED in response to Ad Nauseam or Past in Flames.

I think thoughtseize, CT and SE can be multifunctionally good against many decks, making your sideboard tighter.
CT can be an answer to Stoneforgedecks too.
Chalice, Trap of Confusion take a lot of sideboardspace, since theyre limited to specific matchups.

[GreenShorty]

4-1'ned a 32 players tournament yesterday using the RW list I posted the other day. My matches were:

BUG Delver (0-2);
Storm (2-0 - yes, Thalia and rishadan port are awesome);
Nic-fit (2-0, won by combo'ing prospector + warchief + mwm + infinite mana + chain matron + krenko + piledriver);
Shardless BUG (2-1, Thalia and rishadan port won me this one also);
Maverick using thespian stage + dark depths combo (2-1).

Unfortunately my round 1 loss made me finish on 6th, enough to win 3 booster packs (1st got a taiga, and 2nd and 3rd got a plateau each). Fortunately, I opened the 4th mutavault I needed for my modern pool, lol.

On the first game my opponent had answers to everything I played, and hymn to tourach made it impossible to get back in the game. It was tough because I lost waaaay to fast, however the four straight wins made me feel confident about the list again. This is definitely the better list on a field full of combo.

Side notes:
- My ringleaders were crap. Even though the list uses 33 goblins, most of the time I was revealing only one everytime I dropped him. My impression was that the shuffle effect from fetches influences way more than the filtering effect. Could be only bad luck, though.
- Skirk prospector shined every match. I sided sharpshooter out some games, but never took prospector from the main. It feels good to play like you're about to drop a grapeshot or empty the warrens after casting 10 goblins on a single turn, LOL.

[magicmerl]

WW is superior to Tarfire because it kills everything. Lackey-WW openers are pretty ridiculous because you know Lackey is connecting t2. You can use Gempalm and Tarfire to clear the small creatures and WW off the big ones.
Seconded. Once you're decided to be running black, Warren Weirding is definitely superior to Tarfire.


Several responses apply here.
* First, I remember Cedric Philips placing well with the B splash some time ago (probably more than a year ago).
* Rb Goblins won the first or second SCG tournament in ..uhm...2012 it was. Undefeated, as far as I'm concerned
* I have never piloted a Rb list to a result worse than Top 8.
* see jrw1985's latest tournament report
* see my latest tournament report

I don't know if those are viable arguments though - probably not. The thing is that I have always been looking to improve the deck (mostly with SB choices, which ulimately require splashcolors) and so far the B splash was the one that offered the most powerful cards. That is not to say that splashing W is not good or anything. It's just that from time to time your have to sit back and analyze the metagame and see what it brings. I got the impressions that there is an (1) incredible number of problematic, green creatures (including Elves) and (2) popular (storm)-combo decks. On that basis I was looking for cards to deal with the situation most effectively and Perish and Cabal Therapy are the most effective candidates IMO (I want to point out that recently someone else brought up Cabal Therapy as a solution to diversity of combo decks). Earwig Squad is open to discussion and I admit that part of my reason for playing him was "for the LOLs". However, Cabal Therapy and Perish both are very strong and efficient cards that are well suited for the current metagame requirements.

Another reason is that I don't feel comfortable with Thalia; neither do I think that we need excellent graveyard hate (RIP) right now. So, if I was to splash W it would only be for Wear//Tear. "my" Rb list is trying to make up for the missing Artifact/Enchantment hate with what you called "blinding speed" and ...well...Earwig Squad.
Yeah, and I guess I have similar concerns about Earwig Squad. It was lackluster for me a long time ago, and when it did something in jrws report it seemed to be making general value plays. Thalia can be a similarly dead play, but I think that in general legacy is only ever going to be faster as a format going forward, and Thalia makes the unfair decks play an inherently fairer game, so that we can keep up.


Oh, and about being intellectually lazy: I don't have problems with that. But, I like to invite people to ask their question differently (not for me but for themselves) - or at least ask more and more detailed questions. In addition to asking "has the B splash performing well recently?" you could also ask "has the B splash performing BAD recently?".
You're right, although I would assume that people tend to underreport their bad results using decks of all stripes. It's only when I top8 a big tournament that I'm bursting to come home and post a report. If I've been playing badly (or have something like a headcold) I usually know even before the tournament starts that I'm unlikely to do well, so half the time I won't post those.

[prateta]

Hello everybody,

here's some data I've collected while testing my goblins on Cockatrice. I've collected data while playing against UR and RUG decks containing True Name Nemesis, in order to find out if this new card is any threat to our precious goblins.

The list I play:

Lands:

10x Mountain
4x Wasteland
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Plateau

Instants & sorcerys:

3x Tarfire

Creatures:

2x Krenko
2x Chieftain
2x MWM
1x Sharpshooter
1x Stingscourger
3x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Lackey
4x Warchief
4x Matron
4x Ringleader
3x Piledriver

Artifacts:

4x Aether Vial

SB:

1x Tuktuk Scrapper
4x R.I.P.
4x Red Elemental Blast
3x Pyrokinesis
3x Wear//Tear



I've collected data from 114 games against controls/aggrocontrols playing TNN. (2 games per opponent in average)
My results are: Games lost because of TNN alone (sometimes two or three of them) (12), games lost because of TNN with Jitte (39).

Based on this "research" I concluded that TNN alone is no big deal for goblins. Jitte + TNN is problem, or even Jitte alone, but everybody knows that. This makes my next move to test some kind of maindeck artifact hate, I guess that SB tuktuk is going MB. Just wanted to make this clear, I hope my post helps someone :-)

Have a good day!

[ScatmanX]

If I've been playing badly (or have something like a headcold) I usually know even before the tournament starts that I'm unlikely to do well, so half the time I won't post those.
Well, then changing this might be a good idea. Write about both your good and bad tournaments. Bad tournament reports actually help people to improve more then succesfull ones.
There are alredy a lot of guys over here that write small reports like "went 2-3 today" or "went 1-4 losing to...and to ... because of ...". That's good data too.

@prateta: Thanks for the info. Pretty much what I thought would happen.

[rufus mcdufus]

Well, then changing this might be a good idea. Write about both your good and bad tournaments. Bad tournament reports actually help people to improve more then succesfull ones.
There are alredy a lot of guys over here that write small reports like "went 2-3 today" or "went 1-4 losing to...and to ... because of ...". That's good data too.

@prateta: Thanks for the info. Pretty much what I thought would happen.

On that note Ive done 8 daily events with goblins in the last couple weeks with the following results:

2-2- Jim Davis' list from Sep Scg open
1-2 Drop- Added Krenko, Chieftain, Tarfire, Stingscourger
4-0 - Went back to Davis' list
3-1- Davis' list Againi
2-2 - Again with the Krenko and company version but no tarfire.
1-2 Drop- Davis version but with Stingscourger
3-1 -List Ive settled on for GP...Davis' list but -1 REB, -1 Mindbreak for +2 Chalice of Void
3-1 -Same list as above


Random thoughts:
What I learned was Miracles is almost a joke unless its the RIP/Helm version. BUG is also favorable as is TES and ANT with a proper board (I bring in 3 Thalia, 2 Mindbreak Trap, 2 Chalice and board out sharpshooter, hooligans and gempalms). Sneak and show is still rough...I use the same board plan but bring in 2 REB over Minbreak. Stingscourger wasnt doing enough for me. Similarly Krenko always felt worse than Seige Gang.

When I lost matches my most common misplay was playing a goblin aggressively when I should have ported for 1 more turn.

I am still having issues against good RUG players.

Also when leading with a vial on turn 1 I'll play it off a waste or port if possible game 1. Cabal therapy will always whiff thinking you are on death and taxes.

[Barbed Blightning]

The thresh matchup should still be pretty good, but a lot of it hinges on stable mana development (basics, avoiding stifle) and mwm buying you time to overload the board with dudes, esp. Krenko tokens. Obviously good RUG players will still be tough, but so long as you avoid death by delver or goyf, you're good

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[GoboLord]

The thresh matchup should still be pretty good, but a lot of it hinges on stable mana development (basics, avoiding stifle) and mwm buying you time to overload the board with dudes, esp. Krenko tokens. Obviously good RUG players will still be tough, but so long as you avoid death by delver or goyf, you're good

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I don't think that the RUG or bURG MU is "pretty good". For me it's been slightly negative - even (at best). Skill of your opponent is an important variable here. These decks really need some practice to play well, but if your opponent is above a certain level of experience the MU comes down to this:

* whether you stick Aether Vial on Turn 1/2 or not is crucial. Games without Vial are much tougher than games with Vial in early turns.
* the number of burn spells you opponent is playing with. bURG decks tend to replace some Pyroclasm effects with Fire Covenant. So aiming for their lifepoints in early game is essential
* don't let your lifepoints drop below 10 so easily, because at that moment they might opt to gather some Lightning Bolts and aim for your life total instead of for your creatures
* I've found that the games that we win are usually won very EARLY (like, when they can't handle Lackey into Ringleader) or very LATE (in situations where you start dropping more than one creature each turn). Theses decks can't stand if you get cardadvantage, so make sure your ringleader resolves and your Gempalm Incinerator doesn't "fizzle" by letting your goblin count be dropped below a crucial level in response to it's triggered ability.
* kill their creatures whenever you can. these decks run a total of 12 creatures, which means killing one decreases their wincondition significantly

[rufus mcdufus]

I don't think that the RUG or bURG MU is "pretty good". For me it's been slightly negative - even (at best). Skill of your opponent is an important variable here. These decks really need some practice to play well, but if your opponent is above a certain level of experience the MU comes down to this:

* whether you stick Aether Vial on Turn 1/2 or not is crucial. Games without Vial are much tougher than games with Vial in early turns.
* the number of burn spells you opponent is playing with. bURG decks tend to replace some Pyroclasm effects with Fire Covenant. So aiming for their lifepoints in early game is essential
* don't let your lifepoints drop below 10 so easily, because at that moment they might opt to gather some Lightning Bolts and aim for your life total instead of for your creatures
* I've found that the games that we win are usually won very EARLY (like, when they can't handle Lackey into Ringleader) or very LATE (in situations where you start dropping more than one creature each turn). Theses decks can't stand if you get cardadvantage, so make sure your ringleader resolves and your Gempalm Incinerator doesn't "fizzle" by letting your goblin count be dropped below a crucial level in response to it's triggered ability.
* kill their creatures whenever you can. these decks run a total of 12 creatures, which means killing one decreases their wincondition significantly

I agree with all of that. I feel that RUG more than any other top tier deck varies greatly based on the skill of the pilot. I may just be biased since at the legacy gp in atlanta a couple years ago i was 6-1 going into round 8 and got squashed back to back by RUG delver decks (a match which I beat two times earlier that day).

I will also add to some tips, respect stifle. Once you have a counter on vial tap your vial during your opponents end step every turn, even if you have nothing. Good players wont fall for this but you lose nothing. Getting a matron or ringleader stifled sucks.

I like relic in this match, it neuters 8 of their 16 threats.

Port their trops during their upkeep, waste their volcanics when they are tapped out (respect stifle).

I usually board out tin street x2, piledriver x2, and sharpshooter...aside from relic I havent reached a decision on what I like more between Thalia and Chalice.

I like pyrokinesis and/or REB for delvers on the draw instead of lackeys.

[woodjt5]

I played in a local 13-man GP DC warm up tournament last night. I finished 3-0-1 as top seed after the swiss. Unfortunately, 2 of the guys in the top 4 needed to leave so we just split. I played the mono-red list that I posted a few pages back, with a sideboard changed thanks to suggestions from this thread.

Round One: Fish (win 2-1)

Game 1 on the draw i keep a 6 with one land and a vial. I probably should have gone to 5, but I was hesitant to mulligan for a second time. He plays fetch-go. I play cavern-vial, which he spell pierces. I never drew another land and just got run over by lords.

Game 2 he forces my turn 1 lackey. We get to a situation where his board is island, mutavault, cursecatcher against my mountain, mountain, piledriver. He drops a standstill. I play wasteland to kill his mutavault and we attack back and forth for several turns. Eventually, I Gempalm his cursecatcher, and continue to attack for 1 a turn. Once both of our hands get to 6 or 7 cards I decide to break the standstill with Warchief -> war marshal, chieftan. Even with the 3 extra cards, he can't handle the onslaught.

Game 3 I don't remember too clearly except that we both had turn 1 vials. Eventually he gets me to 3 with a few guys left on board after trades. I drop Krenko and he has a 1 turn window to do something relevant before the Mobb Boss just takes over. He can't find an answer and the game turns quickly as he gets swallowed by the swarm.

Round 2: Punishing Maverick. (win 2-0)

Game 1 is a long affair. He has triple knight, Thalia, Mom, and some other creatures. I waste two red sources and he never really has enough mana to abuse his engine thanks to his own Thalia. I spend most of this game chump blocking until he gets Mom online to sneak through the knights with pro-red. I use two Gempalms to take care of Mom, and I am able to chump for 10+ turns. Three Ringleaders later and I haven't found much offense. Finally I'm able to win the war of attrition and alpha strike with 40+ Goblins. Thalia + Punishing Fire was a real non-bo.

Game 2 he gets the engine going with a 6/6 knight but I'm able to catch two punishing fires and all the land in his graveyard with a single Tormod's Crypt. I then wipe Mom, Scryb Ranger, and Ethersworn cannonist with a single Pyrokinesis and I'm able to win from there. He brought in cannonist because he didn't have anything better, and it almost won him the game. He was a little careless with his fires and with his Mom, otherwise I could have lost this one.

Round 3: Reanimator (win 2-1)

Game 1 he reanimates Iona against my board of 7+ dudes. My land is cavern, port. (I already used a waste). I stare at the gempalm in my hand as it does nothing and I lose.

Game 2 I have turn 1 crypt, lackey. I interrupt his first attempt at reanimation and kill him before he can go off again.

Game 3 is interesting. My 7 has stingscourger, cage, needle, 3 land, and MWM. I go turn 1 cage, turn 2 War Marshal, and start beating down with 1/1s. Turn 3 I play needle on grislebrand, chalice on 1. Eventually I'm able to cast Krenko and he is forced to use his Echoing truth to stay alive instead of using it to win.

This was a fairly lucky result. Yes, I have 7 cards to bring in, but this is not a good match up. We played 6 game-1s before the tournament started and I only won 1.

Round 4 was UWR Delver. We intentionally drew but played 2 game 1s while we waited for the top 4. Both games he had a turn 2 stoneforge that he was able to ride out to win the games. both games went long, and were won on the back of his jitte. I cast multiple matrons in both games and we both agreed that I would have won both if I had an artifact destruction goblin in the main deck. With all of the SFMs running around, not to mention vials in D&T, I am seriously considering making this change for DC. I'm just not sure what to cut.

Top 4 was 1. Goblins (me), 2. UWR, 3. Storm, 4. RUG Delver. I wanted to get some more practice, but they decided to split instead.

I hope this was interesting/informative.

[magicmerl]

He was a little careless with his fires and with his Mom, otherwise I could have lost this one.

I would have won both if I had an artifact destruction goblin in the main deck. With all of the SFMs running around, not to mention vials in D&T, I am seriously considering making this change for DC. I'm just not sure what to cut.

I hope this was interesting/informative.
Good points, and I agree with both of them.

In terms of bringing in new cards, the 'flex' slots to me seem to be taken up by Tarfire and the 5th Lord....

[Stomping Grounds G&H]

It looks like REB is really only brought in vs Sneak N show or maybe miracles. Would Show and tell hate (such as Ashen Rider) be better instead?

[GoboLord]

So, it seems I didn't update the TOURNAMENT REPORTSsection for a solid 5 month now. I finally got some time to browse through the thread and collect your tournament reports (which were quite a lot, you freaky, little, goblin-lovers). Here's the 2013 November Update of the primer:

Update notes

November 13th 2013

ADDED THE FOLLOWING TOURNAMENT REPORTS TO THE OPENING POST AND DELTED SOME OLDER ONES
* June 10th 2013, ScatmanX, 2-2, Rb Living Death Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=730303&viewfull=1#post730303)
* June 17th 2013, jrw1985, 3-0-1, Mono R CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=731649&viewfull=1#post731649)
* June 17th 2013, magicmerl, Top 4, Rwg THALIA Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=731666&viewfull=1#post731666)
* June 26th 2013, goblinsplayer, 5-3, Mono R CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=733488&viewfull=1#post733488)
* July 14th 2013, GoboLord, 2-3, Mono R CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=737624&viewfull=1#post737624)
* July 16th 2013, Schokosensei, 2-1, Mono R CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=737891&viewfull=1#post737891)
* July 19th 2013, jrw1985, 0-2, Mono R CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=738399&viewfull=1#post738399)
* July 20th 2013, jrw1985, 2-1, Mono R CLASSIC Goblins with 1-off Goblin-board (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=738683&viewfull=1#post738683)
* July 21st 2013, LeoCop 90, Finals, Rwg THALIA Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=738890&viewfull=1#post738890)
* July 25th 2013, jrw1985, 2-1, Rb CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=739672&viewfull=1#post739672)
* July 25th 2013, fimo, 3-1, Rw "Averaged" Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=739835&viewfull=1#post739835)
* August 4th 2013, AlmostGrown, 4-2, Rg CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=741733&viewfull=1#post741733)
* August 28th 2013, jrw1985, 2-1 Rw THALIA Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=746248&viewfull=1#post746248)
* August 28th 2013, Sandro85, Rb CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=746756&viewfull=1#post746756)
* September 1st 2013, max_goblin, 3-1, Mono R CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=747755&viewfull=1#post747755)
* October 13th 2013, GoboLord, 4-1, Rb WINSTIGATOR Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=757695&viewfull=1#post757695)
* October 20th 2013, ScatmanX, 3-1, Mono R CLASSIC with Chrome Moxen (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=759604&viewfull=1#post759604)
* October 21st 2013, max_goblin, 2-1, Mono R CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=759707&viewfull=1#post759707)
* October 26th 2013, magicmerl, Semifinals, Rw THALIA Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=760846&viewfull=1#post760846)
* November 11th 2013, jrw1985, 3-1, Rb CLASSIC Goblins (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=764067&viewfull=1#post764067)


CHANGED THE DESIGN AND POSITION OF THE UPDATE NOTES.
You will now find them at the top of the opening post. This should make it easier for you to keep track of changes to the OP.


I ADDED THE FOLLOWING POSTINGS TO "LITERATURE/GOOD READS"
* Testing results (updated on a regular basis) (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-Deck-Goblins&p=751262&viewfull=1#post751262) by cronos

[magicmerl]

Thanks GoboLord.

If we summarise the results (I classified the Average and Bidding lists as Rogue) we get the following:


Archetype #Played W-L WinPct
CLASSIC 13 34-18 0.654
THALIA 4 14-8 0.636
WINSTIGATOR 1 4-1 0.8
Rogue 2 5-3 0.625

[orcanmail]

My point is the following. I play 2~3 tarfires because I dont see myself tutoring for tarfire, so I want to just draw them, or have them in my hand. I believe that usually, tarfire is better against a random field, because it answers the most played creatures faster than skirk/sharpshooter, and to that work, I dont need 1of, I need 2~3 so I can draw them, and not tutor, what would be slow (2R matron + R tarfire = 2RR, not good enought for a shock).

Legacy is getting faster, if you try to just wait, for matron at turn 3, and sharp + skirk turn 4... ouch, you are probably going to die anyway.[/QUOTE]


Which is why I have just decided to drop my vials in my aggro chrome mox winstigator list and replace them with 3 pyrokenisis main deck, to supplement 4 tarfires, 3 gempalms, and 2 stingscourgers. I need to deal with Deathrites, delvers, SFM etc as a matter of urgency and connect with lackey effects.
The SB now has extra space for REB to combat show'n tell.

[rufus mcdufus]

No vials?! That sounds like madness...Im curious to see how that works out. Please post testing data when you have some for that build.

[ScatmanX]

And post the list, please?

@GobboLord: thanks for the work, as always.

[Barbed Blightning]

No vials must mean no ports as well. Seems bad, though there have been worse choices in Legacy.

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[Sandro95]

Hi everyone! I went 4-0 in todays weekly legacy tournament. That's 4-0 and first place two weeks in a row! Anyway, I'll post a report tomorrow, when I have more time. Here are the decks I faced in order.
Omnitell 2-0
Restore Balance Combo 2-0
Death and Taxes 2-1
Punishing RUG 2-0

[Eleven]

Hey guys it's been a long time since I haven't posted anything. My question now is: How do you guys deal with True Name Nemesis? The only thing that came to my mind is having 4 REB / Pyroblast on the Sideboard to counter them (Since it will be useless once they are on the field). Do you guys have any more ideas?

[Sandro95]

Hey guys it's been a long time since I haven't posted anything. My question now is: How do you guys deal with True Name Nemesis? The only thing that came to my mind is having 4 REB / Pyroblast on the Sideboard to counter them (Since it will be useless once they are on the field). Do you guys have any more ideas?

I haven't played against the card yet. I see Warren Weirding as a potential solution. Other than that, I don't see it being too good against us without equipment, so something that neutralises those could be good. This means that WW and Tuktuk Scrapper/Hooligan are the cards I come to hink of that could be useful against it maindeck. Sideboarded, REBs and Pyroblasts (as you said) and more artifact/equipment hate could be worth having in against a TNN deck.

[ScatmanX]

Hey guys it's been a long time since I haven't posted anything. My question now is: How do you guys deal with True Name Nemesis? The only thing that came to my mind is having 4 REB / Pyroblast on the Sideboard to counter them (Since it will be useless once they are on the field). Do you guys have any more ideas?
Playtested some against UW blade. Was easy.
Step 1: Don't let them or deal with the equipment they find.
Step 2: Activate Krenko / chain Ringleaders.
Ignore TNN the whole time while doing everything else.

[rufus mcdufus]

You cant block TNN but TNN cant block your piledrivers. As previously said just focus on the equipment and ignore the fish. You definitely want all the piledrivers you have in your 75 here (im still fan of the full set of 4 md due to the abundance of combo these days).

[Barbed Blightning]

Playtested some against UW blade. Was easy.
Step 1: Don't let them or deal with the equipment they find.
Step 2: Activate Krenko / chain Ringleaders.
Ignore TNN the whole time while doing everything else.

Lol, agreed. Played in a small event a couple of nights ago, ended up against Esper with TNN. Both games were a cake walk, I just ported him off white, played a few ring leaders then Krenko just ran off with the game. Everyone I talked to was surprised, but it makes sense: TNN is just one unstoppable juggernaut, while Krenko makes very, very many expendable troops.

Other matchups I played:

Burn (2-0):
he doesn't bolt lackey turn one and pile driver deals 9 damage a few turns later. He does bolt my lackey game two and pile driver deals 15 damage a few turns later anyway (putting him at -17, but I had war chief out and wanted to smash harder). Chalice at 1 helped.

NicFit (budget, still 0-2)

It's a terrible matchup. Deeds infinitely and Sigarda.

MeatHooks (0-2, same dude who showed up a while back on SCG coverage) every creature is a lord, has shroud and flying. Just can't keep up. I think I will try sudden demise if this becomes a regular thing.

[Sandro95]

Tournament report - Went 4-0 in the weekly legacy tournament (16 players)

R1 Omnitell

G1 I'm on the draw. My opponent usually plays Pox, so I'm feeling pretty good about this game, until my opponent leads with Island>Preordain>Gitaxian Probe. Uh-oh, Show and Tell. However, my opponent doesn't see a second land for a couple of turns, so I'm able to race him, even with my slow keep.

G2 I boarded in Cabal Therapy and Chalice of the Void. Turn one lackey followed by turn two CT is a pretty great start, and I proceed to win from there.

R2 Restore Balance Combo

In both games my opponent mulliganned a lot, and didn't do much besides playing lands. It wasn't until after the match that I found out what he was playing. I put him on Hypergenesis and boarded in Chalices and Cabal Therapies.

R3 Death and Taxes
I know and have played versus this person before. I very much respect him as a player (although I'm used to seeing him play storm).

G1 We both start with land>Vial. I draw all my five removal spells this game, and win the game.
G2 I get stomped by a germ token wielding a Sword of Fire and Ice.
G3 is pretty close. On the last turn, my opponent has two Flickerwisps in play, while I'm at four life. If I play my ringleader, I can attack and force him to block. However, to do so, I will have to fetch, going down to three life. The turn before I had wastelanded my opponent. I topdeck a pyrokinesis though, and swing for lethal.

R4 Punishing Rug

G1 I play around Grove of the Burnwillows and daze by saving my Wasteland and casting my creature a turn later than usual. After some turns, the goblins prevail.
G2 I begin with two Leyline of the Voids in play. On my first turn I play a Vial, which resolves, then a Chalice on one the next. Soon I start to chain Ringleaders and set a Chalice on two after that. I won.

To summarize: Basically, I drew very well, especially in the last to rounds, and my opponents drew poorly in the first two. I liked my card choices in general, and will try out a pair of Dread of Nights in the sideboard. Cabal Therapy is both a really good and a really fun card to play.

[Pans-Advocate]

Is anyone else intrigued by the prospect of a 1x Purphorous, God of the Forge? I know it sounds janky but it synergizes with the deck surprisingly well.

[ScatmanX]

Is anyone else intrigued by the prospect of a 1x Purphorous, God of the Forge? I know it sounds janky but it synergizes with the deck surprisingly well.
It does sound junky, but if your tried it, please share your experience.

[Tokugawa]

Is anyone else intrigued by the prospect of a 1x Purphorous, God of the Forge? I know it sounds janky but it synergizes with the deck surprisingly well.

At least, he works better than Thassa did in Legacy merfolk decks!:tongue:

[jrw1985]

Purphoros is certainly Janky, but if you think about it there are some excellent opportunities to utilize his abilities.
First off, he's indestructible. That means he can't be killed by anything except bounce, remove from game, and edict effects. So he's difficult to answer. He blocks Goyf and Skull all day. He survives Deed.
Secondly, he turns all your gobbos into Shocks, so he provides a non-linear win condition. This both accelerates your win AND plays around Moat effects.
Third, his pump ability is the shit if you have a board.

His abilities mean you have an ability to survive most board sweeps. And rebuilding your board with him in play deals extra damage to your opponent.

I see Purphoros providing a real benefit against NicFit decks and Punishing Fire decks. He's also surprisingly good against Lilliana, because she can't make you sac him when he's your only permanent because he's not a creature then. And you can redirect the damage he deals when you play a creature to Lilliana. He could actually be worth a sb slot or two.

I'd love to hear from folks that have played him about his benefits.

[Barbed Blightning]

The benefits are all true, but he's not coming down until turn 4 at the earliest. Idk, I'd sooner run lightning crafter than him

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[Asgar]

Drew Levin writes:

Goblins is a much worse version of Death and Taxes nowadays. Goblins suffers from the linearity problem—it plays too many cards that form a cohesive and synergistic game plan and too few cards that disrupt an opponent's (much faster) game plan. It is an unfortunate relic of a bygone era when Legacy was slow enough to get attritioned out by Goblin Ringleader. Those days are behind us for now.


What should we respond to this?
Our 1 drop is outclassed by the 1-Mana planeswalker 1 3rd is playing.
1 3rd is Combo Decks, that we have a Bad MU against.
Wich leaves uns with 1 3rd (Tempo Decks) that we can Beat regulary.

[GoboLord]

What should we respond to this?
Our 1 drop is outclassed by the 1-Mana planeswalker 1 3rd is playing.
1 3rd is Combo Decks, that we have a Bad MU against.
Wich leaves uns with 1 3rd (Tempo Decks) that we can Beat regulary.

You make it sound like this:

Deck X runs Deathrite Shaman: We have a bad MU against this deck (which is not true)
Deck Y is a combo deck: We have a bad MU against this deck (which not true either)
Deck Z is Tempo deck: We beat them regulary (again: not true).

I respond with this:
Don't look at what someone says and twist your reality that it fits the way he presents his oppinion. Rather: look at the results. Results are telling me that Goblins is a competitive deck. Just for the LOLs: read through the last 15 tournament reports (opening post) and look what goblins do with combo decks.
Of course the idea of Goblins is old, but that does not necessarily make it a bad deck (which is what Drew Lewin points out. The deck has changed quite a lot since it's first creation in legacy. Thats what goblins do: adapt. Goblins can run every splashcolor. Goblins can run a wide variety of SB cards. Goblins have more than one strategy to play and win. All of these are FACTS. Which is what I would respond to someone who tries to break down the deck to just being fast.
Stating that Goblins is a much worse version of D&T tells me that he doesn't have the insight into the deck that one needs to make the comparison - which would explain a lot of his oppinion on Goblins.

Still, it is true that the format is getting faster and that we have to keep up. I think running Chrome Moxen in MD (probably alongside with Warren Instigator) is a very plausible future direction for the deck.

[Pee-Dee-2]

Hey,

These days a tested a lot around True-Name Nemesis, with him (in Merfolk and Stoneblade) and against him with Goblins.
What I found out is, that Tre-Name Nemsis on its own is not more than a Wall against Goblins. It often stays in the defense without Equipment and with Jitte oder SoFaI, it bacomes a beater.
So, we don't have to fear it until it wears something.
But: Don't rely yourselve on Piledriver? Normaly, each Opponent know its power and will sword it as soon as he/she can, because that is the creature to beat TNN.
The other way, to deal with TNN, if you fear it, must be, to have Solutions for it's equipments. So each Goblin deck should have an tutorable out against it (whatever you Chose, Scrapper, Hooligan or Tinkerer), and maybe a second in the Sideboard.

Purphoros: Nice Card, I love it. But it's not more than a sideboard card. Obviously it seems to be nice with MWM and other Cards, but this is the problem. Purphoros is nice against decks like Miracle, but MWM is not, so they don't interact. Mostly, Purphoros is win more and there are better Cards.

These are my results so far.

To what Drew Levin said: GoboLord +1

One last Thing: I am a huge fan of the bluesplash. It helps in many matchups and I often one games, I lost to in the past. Remember, I succesful play Goblins in Germany for years and I tried every splash Color in all variations. At the moment, U for me seems to be the best (especially with Swan Song).

[ScatmanX]

Drew Levin writes:

Goblins is a much worse version of Death and Taxes nowadays. Goblins suffers from the linearity problem—it plays too many cards that form a cohesive and synergistic game plan and too few cards that disrupt an opponent's (much faster) game plan. It is an unfortunate relic of a bygone era when Legacy was slow enough to get attritioned out by Goblin Ringleader. Those days are behind us for now.


What should we respond to this?
How about I respond it by making top8 of Brazilian Natz with monored Goblins?
In the swiss I beat Elves, Sneak Show, Lands, UW Miracles, UR Delver and Merfolk, losing to UWr TrueBlade, IDing with Canadian.
Top8 will be in 2 hours. I'm fighting Sneak Show, and there are 2x Canadian, AnT, UR Delver, UW TruBlad and TES.
Wish me luck.

[Sandro95]

How about I respond it by making top8 of Brazilian Natz with monored Goblins?
In the swiss I beat Elves, Sneak Show, Lands, UW Miracles, UR Delver and Merfolk, losing to UWr TrueBlade, IDing with Canadian.
Top8 will be in 2 hours. I'm fighting Sneak Show, and there are 2x Canadian, AnT, UR Delver, UW TruBlad and TES.
Wish me luck.

Congratulations on making the top 8! Good luck, I look forward to seeing you win the whole thing. :)

[LeoCop 90]

I suppose Levin's words have been said a lot of times by a lot of people... but goblins are still competitive in legacy.

Yes, we suffer a bit the speed of the format and probably we would need a bit of support from wizard.... for example, if thalia was a goblin, i think our deck would be awesome and miles and miles better than death and taxes. Instead we are forced to splash for thalia and make our deck lose a bit of consistency..... but i really don't see goblins in trouble for now.

[Tokugawa]

“Prison” or “tax” effects usually belong to white…Sorry, “Gobbo Thalia” seems not reasonable.

However, maybe goblins really received few supports in recent years. E.G. goblin had asked for manic vandal's goblin brother for…3 years?5 years? And he still didn't arrive.

[cronos]

Updated my last post (here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19931-DTB-Goblins&p=751262#post751262)) with new results against many decks!

- Fifth update (11-17-2013)
vs. Threshold UGr: 2-0
vs. Punishing Threshold: 0-2
vs. Punishing Lands: 2-1
vs. Reanimator: 1-2
vs. Sneak Attack (MonoR): 2-1
vs. Affinity: 0-2/1-2/1-2/0-2
vs. Loam Pox: 2-1
vs. Patriot: 1-2
vs. Death and Taxes: 2-1
vs. Burning ANT: 1-2
vs. Imperial Painters: 2-0

Regards.

[GoboLord]

“Prison” or “tax” effects usually belong to white…Sorry, “Gobbo Thalia” seems not reasonable.

However, maybe goblins really received few supports in recent years. E.G. goblin had asked for manic vandal's goblin brother for…3 years?5 years? And he still didn't arrive.

Well, thats not true.
We got Cavern of Souls. We got Krenko. We got Wear//Tear. We got Thalia. And we got Rest in Peace. While 4 of them are strictly speaking not tribal-goblin cards they are very good options for Goblin decks.

Honestly, I don't even feel like we need a powerful new tool for the deck. Goblins are as flexible as they never were before.
Most people are playing with W splash.
ScatmanX just top 8ed with a monoRed version.
I strongly advocate the B splash (for oldies like Perish and Cabal Therapy).
And Pee-Dee just pointed out that U is a valid option (for the - recently printed - Swan Song, Flusterstorm and Izzet Charm)

[jrw1985]

How about I respond it by making top8 of Brazilian Natz with monored Goblins?
In the swiss I beat Elves, Sneak Show, Lands, UW Miracles, UR Delver and Merfolk, losing to UWr TrueBlade, IDing with Canadian.
Top8 will be in 2 hours. I'm fighting Sneak Show, and there are 2x Canadian, AnT, UR Delver, UW TruBlad and TES.
Wish me luck.

Fuck yeah, dude! Way to go!

[Barbed Blightning]

Re: Drew Levin's opinion-- he's also said that stifle is a terrible card for RUG, and is regularly made fun of for it on the CanThresh thread--for good reason. Stifle gave me free wins and utility that other cards simply couldn't. So, in short, he's definitely not the first person I'd look to for legacy advice/analysis.

@scatmanx: get there dude!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[Avatara]

Ok, you can't be serious when you say that goblins doesn't need any upgrades.. most goblins we have are from an era where Nimble Mongoose was the strongest one drop we faced.

Take a moment to consider this upgrade to Goblin Matron:

Goblin Matriarch 1R
Creature - Goblin (rare)
When Goblin Matriarch enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a Goblin Creature card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
1R, Tap: You may put a Goblin Creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.
1/2

Too strong? No! Powerful sure.. but not anymore than Stoneforge Mistake.

//edit:

Or maybe even something like this:

Goblin Matriarch 2R (or maybe even RR)
Creature - Goblin (rare)
When Goblin Matriarch enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a Goblin Creature card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
Other Goblin creatures you control get +1/+1.
2/2

[magicmerl]

Or maybe we just need a 10/10 goblin with haste for R?

SMH.

[Dice_Box]

Or maybe we just need a 10/10 goblin with haste for R?

SMH.Unless it deals damage in Poison counters it's just not good enough to see play.

On the topic. I think goblins could use a boost. I would love to see a return to a full tribal set. Future sight had "Llanowar Reborn" as a card so I am holding out hope it happens.

[jrw1985]

Ok, you can't be serious when you say that goblins doesn't need any upgrades.. most goblins we have are from an era where Nimble Mongoose was the strongest one drop we faced.

Take a moment to consider this upgrade to Goblin Matron:

Goblin Matriarch 1R
Creature - Goblin (rare)
When Goblin Matriarch enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a Goblin Creature card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
1R, Tap: You may put a Goblin Creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.
1/2

Too strong? No! Powerful sure.. but not anymore than Stoneforge Mistake.

//edit:

Or maybe even something like this:

Goblin Matriarch 2R (or maybe even RR)
Creature - Goblin (rare)
When Goblin Matriarch enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a Goblin Creature card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
Other Goblin creatures you control get +1/+1.
2/2

Just don't forget to ask Santa for it this Christmas.

[orcanmail]

Still, it is true that the format is getting faster and that we have to keep up. I think running Chrome Moxen in MD (probably alongside with Warren Instigator) is a very plausible future direction for the deck.

Which is what I have done and even taken further, as I was finding my deck too slow and losing even with Chrome Moxen and Warren Instigators.

So I also dropped Aether Vial ( we still have cavern of souls ) and main decked 3 pyrokenesis, alongside 4 tarfire, 3 gempalm and 2 stingscourgers for removal to clear the way for lackeys and warren instigators. I also added a singleton skirk prospector which was fantastic.

The extra SB space was the used for 4 REB/Pyroblast. These were great against brainstorms, jace, delvers, stifle....and of course counters.

The result was i went from 0-4 one week to 4-0 the next in my small local tourney!

It was down to speed, removal, lackeys, then getting to the mid game for maton/ringleaders, and also disruption coming out of my SB

[woodjt5]

ScatmanX - Congrats on he Top 8 finish! It's always good to see Goblins put up results, especially when it is a Source regular.

I'm here to share a somewhat less successful result with you guys. This weekend I attended GPDC with zero byes. I lost my win-and-in for Day 2 to finish 6-3. Here's the list I played:

4 Goblin Lackey
3 Goblin Piledriver
2 Mogg War Marshal
2 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftan
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Krenko, Mobb Boss
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Tarfire

4 Aether Vial

12 Mountains
4 Cavern of souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port

Sideboard:

4 Ashen Rider
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

I made some changes to the list heading into the tournament. After much testing, I decided that I needed artifact destruction in the main because of D&T and the Blade decks with TNN. I dropped a Skirk Prospector from my list in favor a Tuktuk Scrapper. I also felt that combo would be prevalent in DC, so I dropped the MWM in favor of the third Piledriver. To go along with that change, I cut the 4th Gempalm Incinerator for a 2nd tarfire. I never really missed the prospector, but I have always liked him in the past. I didn't face a blade deck all day, so the maindeck scrapper was sided out in almost every round.

I had Mindbreak Traps in the board until Friday night. I replaced them with 2 Chalices, then cut a chalice for the 4th Ashen Rider. Since the 2nd Tuktuk moved to the main deck, I had another open spot. I went with Legion Loyalist on the advice of some very knowledgeable legacy players at my local shop. Giving Piledriver trample and First strike is a big game. I had D&T in mind when i put this in my board, but I didn't face it at the GP.

Pyrokinesis was an all-star. I boarded it in a lot and it was great every time i drew it. When I didn't draw it, I wanted to. The GY hate was all good, and I liked the configuration. The chalice single-handedly won me a match, and came in in several others. I would consider going back to 2. Ashen Riders never came in becase somehow I never faced Sneak and Show. Sharpshooter was awesome. It wiped 12 Empty the Warrens tokens and gave me a fighting chance against TES. The needle never came in, but it fights a wide range of decks. Tuktuk also never came in because I never saw a Stoneforge Mystic. I boarded in Legion loyalist a few times just because i needed more dudes. It never really had a chance to shine.

I don't remember the intricacies of every game, but I'll give you a round up of my matches:

Round 1: Affinity (loss 1-2):

This was not the way I wanted to start my tournament. In game 1, He crushed me with a turn 2 cranial plating. I gempalmed his attacker, but he was able to move the plating before damage and hit me for lethal before I could crack back. Game two was a blowout the other way. A turn-1 Lackey connected, dropped in a Warchief, and then I played piledriver + MWM and he never really had a chance. Game 3 was back and forth. Eventually he landed 3 etched champions and I just couldn't break through. He eventually got Steel Overseer active and Hit beat me to death with unblockable robots. 0-1.

Round 2: Miracles (win 2-0):

This was not close. He wasn't playing the energy field/RIP/Helm/Enlightened tutor version. Instead, he was on the traditional plan, and both games were heavily in my favor. Krenko finished him off in Game 2. 1-1.

Round 3: TES (loss 1-2):

This is obviously a bad matchup for mono-red. This was an awesome match. In game 1 I played a turn 1 lackey. He pondered and passed off of an Underground Sea. I don't know why, but I put him on grixis delver instead of storm. I connected with a lackey and dropped something (maybe a matron?). I played a Piledriver after combat. On his turn, he went off and emptied the warrens for 16 tokens. I played a mogg war marshal and attacked with lackey. He chumped with a token. on his turn, he attacked with everything. I tarfired one and blocked as many as i could. I'm not sure exactly how we traded over the next two turns, but eventually i attacked him down to one with a swarm that included a matron. I dropped the matron into play and got the second tarfire, and shocked him for the game win. So close. In game 2 he stumbled and I was able to waste and port him a little bit. I kept a vial, lackey hand, but couldn't find much gas. He got me with tendrils on turn 5 or 6 when he was at 5 life. This was one of those games that you HAVE to win against storm. He was slow to go off and gave me an opening to kill him. I just couldn't find any guys to apply pressure. I had sided in GY hate in game 2 (which i drew instead of guys). I am familiar with ANT but I wasn't sure if TES relied on Past in flames, so I sided the yard hate out in g3. Game 3 was epic. I mulliganed to 4. He knows I'm on 4 so settles for 12 goblin tokens on turn 3 or 4. At this point, I don't think i had anything but a lackey and a vial on the board. The next turn, he attacked with 11 guys, putting me to 10 after I tarfired or gempalmed one. On my turn, I gempalmed his blocker, hit him with lackey, and dropped matron, getting my SHARPSHOOTER, and vialed it in. He cracked back. I traded with my matron and went to 1. I untapped and wiped his board with Sharpshooter. He didn't realize it worked like that. It does. I proceed to hit him with lackey and some MWM token for a few turns but again can't find any gas. 4 turns later, he goes off again and kills me. This was a really fun match, but I felt like I wasted an opportunity to steal a match from Storm.

At this point, I am somewhat resigned to my fate. I realize that winning 6 in a row is not very realistic, but I decide to do my best to make the best of it. 1-2.

Round 4: Burn! (Win 2-0)

This guy had a fire and lightning event box and Chandra sleeves. I told him that he should have worn a red shirt too. He was a fairly inexperienced player and could have taken game 1 if he made different decisions. He bolted a chieftan after i attacked with my hasted team and later bolted a lackey instead of a piledriver when i had one card in hand and a ton of guys already on the board. If it were FNM, I would have explained to him that he should have done things differently, but this was a GP and I was playing for my tournament life. I stole game 1, and then blew him out in game 2. He had a price of progress draw and i played all mountains. 2-2.

Round 5: RUG Delver (Win 2-0)

This round I played against a nice guy from Roanoke that works for SCG. I think his name was Allen, but I'm not sure. Game 1 he forced a turn 1 vial and was behind the whole game. I got ahead and was able to grind him out fairly convincingly. I boarded in 1 chalice, 1 relic, and 1 pyrokinesis. I think this is the right configuration. All of those cards are good against them, but so is most of the main deck, so it's hard to bring in much more. I killed a 4-toughness goyf by pitching tarfire to pyrokinesis. I was ahead but he had rough/tumble to wipe my board. I cast a ringleader and hit land-land-relic-vial. ouch. I eventually drew a matron and got another ringleader, which yielded better results. Again, I got ahead of him and just finished him off. This was my most enjoyable match of the day. I got a little sloppy in one fo the games when i connected with a lackey. He said "okay." I picked up my deck and started searching it. He said "what?" I said oops and put the matron from my hand into play that i forgot when the lackey connected. I was a step ahead in my mind and forgot to physically put the matron into play. He understood and let me go with it, but I'm pretty sure that if he wanted to be a dick he could have called a judge on me. 3-2.

Round 6: Shallow Grave Reanimator (Win 2-1)

This was an interesting match. My opponent had a hearing disability and was wearing a hearing aid, so there were a lot of hand motions. He was pleasant and seemed to be a strong player. In game 1 I had a quick lackey start and was able to slow him down with port + wasteland. He was pondering and brainstorming and lim-dul's vaulting. I had no idea what he was on, but I knew it was some sort of combo. he goes off and reanimates Emrakul, attackes, and wipes my board, putting me to 5. He is also at 5 and I'm left with Mountain, Matron. I peel stingscourger, attack for 4, and put him to 1. He has no answers and we go to game 2. Game 2 was a route. Grisledaddy and Emrakul teamed up to crush my face in short order. In game 3, I mulled to 6 and had turn 1 lackey, tun 2 chalice on 1. He had the kill, but Chalice stopped him for long enough for me to kill him. 4-2.

Round 7: Dragon Stompy (Win 2-0)

His game 1 turn 1 was tomb-> chrome mox pitching jaya ballard -> blood moon. He looked pleased. My turn 1 was mountain -> lackey. He was less pleased. Both games were heavily in my favor. 5-2.

Round 8: Dredge (win 2-1)

I lose game 1. It's dredge, so this isn't really very surprising. In game 2 I drop a turn 1 Cage. He can't find an answer and dies. Game 3 was crazy. I look at my 7 and see a good hand with a lackey, but no hate cards. I think for a while and ship it. My plan was "mulligan to hate," can't chicken out now. I had 4 GY hate cards and 4 creatures with echo. I wanted to find one of those cards. I also boarded in Pyrokinesis to shoot my own guys in a pinch. My 6 is 6 red creatures. Let's go to 5. My 5 is vial, land, land, ringleader, land. Nope. Let's go to 4. Mountain, Mountain, pyrokinesis, MWM. Sure. I'm on the play. Mountain pass. He plays putrid imp and passes. I draw....CRYPT! I play cyrpt and MWM. He loots, finds no dredgers, and puts a bridge in his yard. MWM dies to the echo trigger and I tell him to exile his bridge. He didn't recognize that MWM would get his bridge, and curses himself while exiling it. I draw tarfire and attack for 1. On his turn he casts careful study. There are 5 cards (maybe 6) in his yard. he plays nature's claim on my crypt, i respond with a tarfire on his imp so that if he pitches anything else to it, i can get whatever it is with the crypt. He lets it die and i get his GY. I attack him for 2 a turn for a few turns and eventually play some more pressure, and he concedes. Whew. 6-2. Playing for Day 2.

Round 9: Elves (Loss 0-2)

In game 1 i have a tarfire and wait patiently for a symbiote to kill. My draw is double vial, not a lot of guys. At some point i try to waste his Dryad Arbor to keep him off a potential combo the next turn. He saves it with Quiron Ranger (D'oh). I draw Krenko the next turn and can't cast it because i stone rained myself the turn before. I eventually have Krenko, Chieftan. I die to Natural Order -> HOOF one turn before I would have killed him with tokens. My wasteland cost me the game. I have a TON of hate for elves. Chalice, Cage, Sharpshooter, double pyrokinesis, and all my main deck removal. I mull to 6 and keep a decent hand with no hate cards. He has a trong draw and goes off on turn 3 or 4 despite me killing one of his guys with tarfire. I probably should have mulliganed farther. It was a disappointing loss because I love playing Legacy and felt really good about. I finished 6-3.

The event was a blast and the deck felt good. I played 9 different archetypes, none of which were sneak and show or blade decks. I think I want a second chalice in the board, but I'm not sure what I would drop. I'll leave tuktuk in the main for now--Blade decks were everywhere at the event, I just didn't play them.

Next time I'll get to Day 2. Some byes would obviously help.

[Surfkatt]

Still, it is true that the format is getting faster and that we have to keep up. I think running Chrome Moxen in MD (probably alongside with Warren Instigator) is a very plausible future direction for the deck.

I agree with this, but being a new legacy player I don't know how valid an opinion this is haha. I feel Warren instigator and chrome mox really help our combo matchup by being faster. Black also really helps the matchup with Cabal therapies and earwig squads to tear their deck apart. Also, being new to goblins, why is the vial so important? It just seems slow and durdely alot of the time...

[Barbed Blightning]

I agree with this, but being a new legacy player I don't know how valid an opinion this is haha. I feel Warren instigator and chrome mox really help our combo matchup by being faster. Black also really helps the matchup with Cabal therapies and earwig squads to tear their deck apart. Also, being new to goblins, why is the vial so important? It just seems slow and durdely alot of the time...

Vial is a "mana engine;" that is to say that each counter you add to it gives you more free virtual mana for your creatures. This allows your lands to be used for denial/utility, since you aren't relying on them to cast spells--or it can allow you to double up on land drops.

It also gives your dudes uncounterability and flash, which is why it is the second most countered/removed thing we play (behind lackey). TBH, there have been matches where I started off with vial and port+mountain and knew I was going to win (and did).

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[mrblueduck]

So there is a new commander card that has me interested. Sudden Demise (http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/commander-2013/sudden-demise) . I don't know if it is a better option than Pyrokinesis out of the SB, but it is something to at least consider as a 2-1, 1-1 split. It is certainly better in many instances then Pyro. I am just curious if anyone has tested this card, or seen it actually be played.

[GreenShorty]

How about I respond it by making top8 of Brazilian Natz with monored Goblins?


LOL, best possible answer. My results were far worse (1-4 drop, after an 0-3 start), and I believe this was due to a complete miss on my meta evaluation (I was fearing combo too much, and used artifact hate only on my SB).

I won't post a report cause I believe it's not worth it, but my matches were D&T (loss after mull to 5), affinity (:frown:), tin fins (two turn 1 kills) and dragon stompy (my only win. took me about 5 min total to end both games).

On a side event I managed to make 4-2-1, losing to bant and combo elves. Won matches against omnitell, tezzerator, D&T and jund.

All in all, it was a blast to bring goblins to such a big tournament, and it was even better to see you making top 8 of it again.

It was a pleasure to meet you there, and I hope you keep innovating and making good results. As for me, well... I started building a UWR true-blade list, but I'm not planning to give up on my fellow green dudes.

Ps.: ScatmanX, where's your full report and deck list? I'm pretty sure ppl will find your list crazy, just like I did (lol).

[ScatmanX]

ScatmanX - Congrats on he Top 8 finish! It's always good to see Goblins put up results, especially when it is a Source regular.
Thanks =]

The needle never came in

He crushed me with a turn 2 cranial plating.

He eventually got Steel Overseer active

Grisledaddy and Emrakul teamed up to crush my face in short order

for a symbiote to kill

He saves it with Quiron Ranger
Just pointing out some targets and games where Needle should be brought in.


Ps.: ScatmanX, where's your full report and deck list? I'm pretty sure ppl will find your list crazy, just like I did (lol).
Will be posted tomorrow. Thanks. It was awesome meeting you too.

[woodjt5]

Touche.

[jrw1985]

So there is a new commander card that has me interested. Sudden Demise (http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/commander-2013/sudden-demise) . I don't know if it is a better option than Pyrokinesis out of the SB, but it is something to at least consider as a 2-1, 1-1 split. It is certainly better in many instances then Pyro. I am just curious if anyone has tested this card, or seen it actually be played.

Already received mine off eBay. Looking forward to trying it out.

[jrw1985]

So there is a new commander card that has me interested. Sudden Demise (http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/commander-2013/sudden-demise) . I don't know if it is a better option than Pyrokinesis out of the SB, but it is something to at least consider as a 2-1, 1-1 split. It is certainly better in many instances then Pyro. I am just curious if anyone has tested this card, or seen it actually be played.

Already received mine off eBay. Looking forward to trying it out.

[andrebonotto]

How about I respond it by making top8 of Brazilian Natz with monored Goblins?
In the swiss I beat Elves, Sneak Show, Lands, UW Miracles, UR Delver and Merfolk, losing to UWr TrueBlade, IDing with Canadian.
Top8 will be in 2 hours. I'm fighting Sneak Show, and there are 2x Canadian, AnT, UR Delver, UW TruBlad and TES.
Wish me luck.


Congratulations, Marcelo! The Top-8 was a great achievement! What Duals did you get as prizes? :smile:

I played at the BR Nationals too, but with a different tribe: Elves.
Did 5-3. Nothing exciting, but I was proud I beat a Miracles deck by 2x0, surviving a couple of Terminuses, a Moat and a Humility. Tough one... :tongue: But it was a shame that I lost to all the tempo decks I faced... :frown:


Would you be willing to make a report of your matches? (Or at least of the most remarking moments?)

^
EDIT: Nevermind the above request. Just read your reply saying that you'll post it. :smile:


(P.S.: Now, after reading the two last pages of this thread, I can understand the "message" you gave on your Top-8 Profile Interview (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=685501748141655&set=a.685501394808357.1073741874.405738072784692&type=3&theater), as answer to this request: "Para finalizar deixe um recado para os leitores..." {"To end it, leave a message to the readers..."} :laugh:)

[ScatmanX]

As you already know, I decided to play Goblins in Brazilian Natz this year again. The tournament is not that big of a thing, compared to ones that usually happen in Europe/Estates (I mean, it’s even smaller than a normal SCGO), but it’s the largest Legacy event we have to play around here.
The list is the one I’ve been playing with for the last couple of months, but changed a little after some of Cristhians insights, and after TNN was released. Here it is:

4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
9 Mountain
2 Chrome Mox

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Mogg Warmarchall
1 Goblin Piledriver

2 Krenko, Mob Boss

3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Tarfire
1 Stingscourger

1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
Sideboard:
3 Confusion in the Ranks

2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Chalice of the Void

1 Boartusk Liege
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker

So, on to the rounds:
Match 1: Elves
Game 1 – I lead with Lackey, he with Needle Sentinel of Bayou. I Port him. He never draws a 2nd land. Waste + Kenkro T4 speed my clock and I win.
In: 3xCotv, 1xShooter, 1xCrafter, 2x Needle, 1x Revoker. Out: 4xVial, 1xRingleader, 1x MWM, 1x Tuktuk.
Game 2 – He plays Shaman, I Tarfire it. He plays na elf, Cradle, and passes. I Waste Cradle. He plays Wirewood Simbiote, I play CotV@1 and Port the shit out of his basic. That wins the game after some dudes.
-Got quite luckythere, but the elves manabase does got a lot worse trough time. No shame on taking advantage of it.
1-0

Match 2 – Sneak and Show
Game 1: He cantrips and Daze my Vial. The he replays Island, Island, Mountain, Fetch -> Sneak, Simian Grisel, and I die, not being able to do anything the 4 turns he gave me. (funny thing is that I was hitting him with a Chieftain. If he went SnT > Grisel, I’d won, of Krenko activating twice + Gempalm. <3 Krenko)
In: 3x Confusion, 3x CotV, 2x Needle, 1x Revoker, 1x Boartusk. Out: 3x Tarfire, 3x Gempalm, -1 Ringleader, -1 Vial, -1 Tuktuk, -1 MWM
Game 2 – I keep a Confusion and Vial hand, with Revoker, and Port and Waste him. Drew all 3 Vials, always keeping one @2. Pyroclasm clears my board once, but Krenko lives. 2 Turns later he plays a Petal. Ok. He plays a 2nd one. I vial in Revoker for Petal. He had a 3rd one, but no other R mana. I port his mountain and kill him 2 turns later.
Game 3 – Keep Lackey, Confusion, Vial, Kikijiki, lands. Lackey gets there and I have a Chieftain out there 2 turns later. He wipes my board. I rebuild a little, Porting 2 lands a turn, having Wasted one. He has to go for SnT, Confusion gives me a 7/7 Demon to win the game.
2-0

Match 3 – Uwr TrueBlade (List that I created played by a teammate)
Game 1: His T2 Brainstorm fails to find his 3rd land. He plays 3 Stoneforges, I kill 2 of them, and he dies a horible death with only 2 lands into play after Sting bounces de Batter token.
In: 1x Tuktuk, 2x Needle. Out: -1 Warchief, -2 MWM
Game 2: My Vial is Pearced, Lackey doesn’t connect trough T2 stone, into Batter, into Sword UR + Equip T4. I don’t get a land for Tuktuk and die.
In: 1x Revoker. Out: Don’t know…
Game 3: Lackey is StP’d, T3 Matron (Mountain, 2xWaste) gets Ringleader on hand with Tuktuk, Warchief, Tarfire, something. He plays T3 Nemesis,and T4 Jitte equipping. I never draw a 4th land and die.
2-1

Match 3 – Lands
Game 1: He mulls and have a tapland. I have lackey. He has Maze, I have Waste + Krenko + Prospector. Easy from there.
In: 2x Needle, 1x Revoker, 1x Shooter, 1x Crafter, 1x Tuktuk. Out: -2 Gempalm, -3 Tarfire, -1 Sting.
Game 2: He has a T1 dark confidant and gets Punishing/Grove going by T2. Never got a chance to Revoker his Mox Diamond (only other R Source), and lose to it.
Game 3: I keep a Vial hand, going MWM into Matron for Ringleader, that reveals 2 more. Meanwhile I Waste him twice, and get 2 Port. He Waste/Locks me, but went low for the beating, and I have 2 basics out. When I draw my Caverns I don’t play it (no 3 drops), hit, and Tarfire him. Next Ringleader (3rd) reveals Chieftain (after I draw a 2nd Tarfire), which dies to P.Fire, But I get him to 3, having Ringleader, Tuktuk, Crafter, Kiki-Jiki, Matorn and Tarfire in hand. He Tolaria’s West for Glacial Chasm (Zuran Orb was in the graveyard becaue of dredging Loam), casts and pass. I up my Vial to 5 and pray. Upkeep he sacrifices Chasm. I Vial in Kiki, Copy Matron, search for Tarfire, and cast both of them. Feels awesome killing people with Tarfire! (Yeah, you DO search for it sometimes!)
3-1

Match 5 – UW Miracles
Game 1: He starts. Vial resolves. He does nothing. I up Vial. He does nothing. I tap vial with Gempalm, Kiki, Chieftain, Warchief and lands. He Cliques me in response. (hehehehe) taking Gempalm,and assembling CB lock next turn. Afterall he doesn’t find StP OR Terminus, and my dudes kill him (drew MWM and Piledriver after Clique, and it was enough).
SB In: 2x Needle, 1x Revoker, 1x Shooter, 1x Crafter. SB out: -3 Tarfire, -1 Sting, -1 Gempalm.
Game 2: I mull to 5, keeping Matron into Ringleader. He T4 plays Humility. I actually end up doing a lot of dmg, but not enough.
SB in: 3x Tarfire. SB Out: 2x MWM, 1 Tuktuk.
Game 3: I get him to 9, and he casts Humility. 3 Goblins hit him, and I cast another. He takes 3, blocking 1 with Venser, going to 3. I play around Terminus, take him down to 1, with 2 dudes in hand. He doesen’t find an out (1 mana short to Top + Tutor + Brainstorm + Moat), and I get him.
4-1

Match 6 – UR Delver
Game 1: He goes to 6 and I to 5. 2nd turn Guide start hitting, but he uses 2 burs on 2 Chieftains. I have a Vial going up, and draw Matron when Vial reaches 4. Draw 4 goblins and win from there.
In: 3x CotV, 1x Boartusk, 1x Crafter. Out: -1 Kiki, -1 Tuktuk, -1 Prospector, -1 Chieftain, -1 Piledriver.
Game 2: I keep a Vial hand, and it gets Smithed into Smitherins. He then plays a Grim Lavamancer, which I’m aunable to kill with Gempalm, having 2x Chieftain + Warchief. He the Brainstorms, get 2 Delvers, flip’em, and I die.
Game 3: T1 nothing, T2 MWM, T3 pay Echo, T4 Tarfire a Delver and Gempalm the other, T5 Ringleader while he had an empty table. Curved quite well here.
5-1

Match 7 – CounterFolk
Game 1: Keep 2xVial, Mountain, Caverns, Waste, Ringleader, Gempalm. T1 Vial is Dazed after a Cursecatche. T2 Vial is FoW’d. He Wastes my Waste. I play Waste, he waste my waste. I play Caverns, he Wastes it. I get a Lackey, he get Counterbalance. I play something, he plays Top. The game progresses in a way that I go down to 12, while he has a Lord, TNN, and I have only 3 lands, Lackey, Prospector, Ringleader, while he is tapped out. I make a mistake and play MWM, having Tarfire/Piledriver/MWM/Lackey/Ringleader and others in hand. He has a 2cc on top. I should have Tarfired first. If he flipped Top I’d have a lot of mana with MWMs… Well. I then Tarfire his Lord, and he lets it resolve! Mistake for 1 matched mistake from the other. When I attack, he realizes he hat CB and Top, and tilt. I get Piledriver out. For the next 3 Turns I don’t draw lands, but play Ringleaders with Prospector mana. When I find a Gempalm my army is able to kill him, in 2 turns, because of Piledriver.
In: 1x Shooter, 1x Crafter. Out: 1x MWM, 1x Sting
Game 2: My Vial is Fow’d, Lackey trade with Silvergill, Piledriver is Dismembered. With 4 mana I cast Matron, and 5 casts Ringleader for a bunch of cards and no resistence. That sealed it.
6-1

Match 8 – Canadian
ID
6-1-1

TOP8:
Game 1: I mull, keeping Lackey, Vial, Chieftain, Krenko, 2x Mountain. He Preordains, and FoW my Lackey. He plays land and passes. I have Lackey + Vial next turn (Draw Gempalm). He Brainstorms, play land, Petal, SnT > Sneak. I drop Krenko. Next turn I draw Prospector, hit with Lackey, drop Chieftain. He gets Griesel into play, pay 14, drop Emrakul, and swing. I activate Krenko, Gempalm his Griesel, sac 6 permanents, take 15, and kill him on the sing back.
1-0
SB: same as other SnT
Game 2: He leads with Volcanic, I with Waste + Vial (Confusion in the Ranks hand), that is Dazed. He plays Mountain and Petal. I play MWM. He replays Volc. I don’t pay Echo and have CotV @1. He has Sneak next turn, droping Emrakul, and Progenitus next turn.
1-1
Game 3: He mulls. I have Needle for Sneak Attack. He draws and passes. I drop Caverns, Mox, play Chieftain, having Krenko and Ringleader as y last 2 cards. He plays land. I draw Ringleader (#1 miss), hit and pass. He plays City of Traitors. I draw Vial (#2 miss), hit, play it, and pass. He cast another City, and Trough the Breaches an Emrakul (that would not have mattered if I had drawn a land). I draw only another land, while he draws 2 others to play cantrips, Sneak, and another Emrakul.
1-2
Game 4: I have Needle for Sneak again. He plays Volc, Petal and Top. I play land and Needle on Top. He plays land and passes. I have a MWM. He cantrips, and cantrips again. I find my 3rd land, with Matron in hand, buthe has only 2, one being a City, and I’m Porting it, and decide to continue doing so. I get rewarded with 2 more lands, and Matron for Chieftain, casting it next turn, dropping him to 5. He breaks City to play another land to Pyroclasm my army. I have another land and Krenko follow up, still Porting him. He passes. I play Ringleader and swing. He has a Echoing Truth for Krenko, going to 2 due to a Fetchland. Next turn he doesn’t find an answer, and scoop.
2-2
Game 5: I keep land, Mox, Needle, MWM, Ringleader, CotV, Chieftain. He plays land. I play Land + Mox + Needle@ Sneak and CotV@0. He plays land. I play MWM (#3 miss land). He plays Sneak Attack. I draw and hit for 1 (#4 miss), and pass. He pass. I draw (#5 miss), hit and pass. He passes, discarding Petal. He ends up discarding 2x Sneak, 2x Petal, while I discard Matron (#5 miss) Ringleader (#6 miss) and Krenko (#7 miss), then drop a CotV @1. Too bad it was 1 turn before he found a Top. 2 Turns later he finds a Trough the Breach AND an Emrakul, to wipe my table, going to2 doing so. TWO!! The only permanent I keep is Needle@ Sneak. I draw a land 2 turns later, but he finds Echoing Truth for Needle, and hat a Griesel to finish me off.
2-3

Got really bummed after this one. If anyone of those 7 misses were a land, or more relevant cards to cast (more MWM/Lackeys/Vial/Prospector/Needles game 5, any 3cc or less creature OR card game 3) I’d have won the best of 5. Too bad my luck don’t seem to continue in top8 of Natz…

The metagame breakdown showed me I was accurate in the SB, and got glad for it. The 2 most played decks were Shardless and Canadian, where I keep the plan of playing with 34 goblins and win via C.A. . The 3-5 decks were Sneak, DnT and Elves, so Needle was a really good choice, as was CotV, as both combo and Elves hate. The only last minute changes were -1 Liege, -1 Confusion, +1 Tuktuk, +1Revoker, and they paid out. TrueBlade is a favorable MU, but a TNN with Batter/Jitte/UR sword can win the game very fast, so 2nd Tuktuk was nice to have, so were Needles.

I got a pleyset of Scrublands for my troubles, joined a Cube Draft after, went 4-0 and won a Jace, The Mindsculptor. Good day for me! After that went with SuperBizarros to eat and celebrate. It was also nice to meet some of the fellow Sourcers out there. Really liked it.

Thanks for reading, for the cheers and for the support!

[GoboLord]

Hey there,

nice finish and thank you for the report.

I just remembered something. Look at your report from last year (Brazil Natz 2012)


So, after the 6-1-1 yesterday, lost on the top8 =/.
[...]
Match 8 – Canadian
ID with a friend.
6-1-1
[...]
Top8: Sneak Show.
[...]
And that’s that. Got 4 Scrublands for it.



Now look at your report from this weekend (Brazil Natz 2013)




Match 8 – Canadian
ID
6-1-1

TOP8: SneakShow
[...]

I got a pleyset of Scrublands for my troubles,


Some people really have difficulties with breaking their habits :-D



Oh, and on-topic:
Don't you think Perish would be a good idea, given your accuarate meta-analysis (looking at the top decks: Elves, BUG Cascade, Canadian) instead of Pithing Needle and Revoker? I don't know, but I just can't get warmed up with Needle and Revoker. Obviously they served you really good, so I'm not expecting you to drop them :-). But maybe you can (once more) try to explain what makes them valuable for you?

[ScatmanX]

Oh, and on-topic:
Don't you think Perish would be a good idea, given your accuarate meta-analysis (looking at the top decks: Elves, BUG Cascade, Canadian) instead of Pithing Needle and Revoker? I don't know, but I just can't get warmed up with Needle and Revoker. Obviously they served you really good, so I'm not expecting you to drop them :-). But maybe you can (once more) try to explain what makes them valuable for you?
Don't get me wrong. I do like Perish. Against both Elves and Canadian I think it's awesome (not so much against BUG, since the only dude we really care about is Goyf. Everything else is 2/2, 1/1, 1/2...), but I don't like the strain it puts on our manabase. Ever since Caverns I've not been a big fan of splashing non-creature off-color cards. Both Wasteland and Stifle punish us real bat, and so Price of Progress in lesser extend. I know we can dodge this, and most actually do, but I love the resilient manabase I have. For instance, against Folk I was Wasted 3 times G1, almost costing me the match, and managed to win G2 having played 5 straight Mountains, and he finished with 3 Wastelands out. So as much as I like the card Perish, I rather increase my % of wins having a better manabase.
Other than that, my plan against fair decks has shifted sometime ago. Rather than bring powerful non-goblins cards (like RiP, Perish, Kinesis, etc), I choose to do not dilute the deck and win by card advantage. We can out-CA Jund/BUG/Canadian/whatever if we have 34 goblins on our deck even after sideboarding. That's my take on it.

@Needle: It is, imo, the most versatile card there is in monored today. Legacy is a jungle. I seriously don't know what we might face going into a big event. Look at woodjt5s report. I can't think at any other card that could win games against Affinity, Elves and TinFins, and adding up with mine, SnT too. The cost-efficiency is also hardly matched by other cards we can use.
I don't expect Needle to win me the game on the spot, but it us easy to use, don't invest more resources or damages on our gameplan, and slows down enough decks to give us real shots at winning the game.
Don't really know what more I can add. Guess that it'll prove to be worth it on next tournament reports.

[(nameless one)]

Have you guys tried the following for the sideboard:

Grafdigger's Cage: it's okay against Dredge (still doesn't stop Zombie tokens) but it does take care of Ichorid and Dread Return targets. Early Cage followed by a swarm of goblins? Not to mention it disables GSZenith and Natural Order for Elves. This was taken from the Canadian Thresh thread:
If you want to shore up both Elves and Dredge matchups, Grafdigger's Cage. As an Elves player, few things annoy me as much as a Cage on the board. Imagine someone turning all your cantrips into blanks. That's what it feels like playing vs. Cage. That is to say, please burn all Grafdigger's Cages you encounter, we will reward you handsomely.

Ensnaring Bridge: not sure how fast you can get this online but it's not as dependent as Ashen Rider against Sneak/Show decks. I mean you're going to be attacking with 1/x and 2/x goblins right. Also goes well with Piledriver as you attack with a 1/2 and the trigger happens after it attacks, getting around bridge.

[Sandro95]

Hi everyone! I played in the weekly legacy tournament today. This time we were 9 players.

R1. Sneak and Show
G1. I didn't know what my opponent was on and kept a seven without a onedrop but with Mogg War Marshal + Chieftain and a lot of mana denial. My opponent was on Sneak and Show and I was too slow.
G2. A Chalice of the Void on 1 keeps my opponent on one land and I win.
G3. My opponent has a fast hand and without Cabal Therapy it's too much. I lose.

R2. Esper Stoneblade (with TNN)
G1. This is a very close game. My opponent gets a TNN into play. I have Vial and some Goblins. I port him for a turn or two to delay him from playing his SoFaI. Once he get's it into play I matron for a Tuktuk Scrapper to get rid of it. He soon plays a second TNN and a Jitte. I have a SGC and my opponent is at a low life total. If I had had some more lands in play I could have finished him off this way. I played a Prospector a couple of turns earlier which was propably a mistake, it could have generated enough mana.
G2. My opponent doesn't have an answer for Lackey, which is allowed to hit twice. It takes a while for me to win, but my opponent isn't able to stabilize.
While shuffling for game 3 time is called. I conceided the game (I had been paired up) and went home to eat instead.

Reflections: R1 I wanted an answer to Griselbrand/Emrakul (my list doesn't include Stingscourger). R2 an answer to TNN would have been nice. I'm considering adding a Warren Weirding to the main deck, but I'm not sure what to cut. Maybe I should split it 1/1 with the Tarfire. I like playing more removal maindeck (4 gempalms, 2 Tarfires, 1 Sharpshooter atm) as it makes the matchups vs most fair decks better, and the sideboard hate versus combo is way more effective. I'll see what I come up with. As always, if you have any suggestions I'm happy to hear them, feedback is always appreciated. :)

[GoboLord]

@ScatmanX
Thank you for the reply. Was - as always - very insightful.


Hi everyone! I played in the weekly legacy tournament today. This time we were 9 players.

R1. Sneak and Show
G1. I didn't know what my opponent was on and kept a seven without a onedrop but with Mogg War Marshal + Chieftain and a lot of mana denial. My opponent was on Sneak and Show and I was too slow.
G2. A Chalice of the Void on 1 keeps my opponent on one land and I win.
G3. My opponent has a fast hand and without Cabal Therapy it's too much. I lose.

R2. Esper Stoneblade (with TNN)
G1. This is a very close game. My opponent gets a TNN into play. I have Vial and some Goblins. I port him for a turn or two to delay him from playing his SoFaI. Once he get's it into play I matron for a Tuktuk Scrapper to get rid of it. He soon plays a second TNN and a Jitte. I have a SGC and my opponent is at a low life total. If I had had some more lands in play I could have finished him off this way. I played a Prospector a couple of turns earlier which was propably a mistake, it could have generated enough mana.
G2. My opponent doesn't have an answer for Lackey, which is allowed to hit twice. It takes a while for me to win, but my opponent isn't able to stabilize.
While shuffling for game 3 time is called. I conceided the game (I had been paired up) and went home to eat instead.

Reflections: R1 I wanted an answer to Griselbrand/Emrakul (my list doesn't include Stingscourger). R2 an answer to TNN would have been nice. I'm considering adding a Warren Weirding to the main deck, but I'm not sure what to cut. Maybe I should split it 1/1 with the Tarfire. I like playing more removal maindeck (4 gempalms, 2 Tarfires, 1 Sharpshooter atm) as it makes the matchups vs most fair decks better, and the sideboard hate versus combo is way more effective. I'll see what I come up with. As always, if you have any suggestions I'm happy to hear them, feedback is always appreciated. :)

Could you post your list please? I'm especially interested in your list since I'm on B splash too, right now. ALso, it's easier for people to give you feedback then. Thank you!

[Windmill]

Hello Goblin players!

I am a an opposing fish player, new to legacy. I versed goblins, and I got destroyed in the first game - the second game was close, but they just won. The card advantage is insane!

I've got a question for you guys. What cards in mono-blue Merfolk decks are you most afraid to see? What is it, that makes your life hard in this match-up (including sideboard cards). It would really help me a lot to understand this match-up. Thanks! :)

[GoboLord]

I've got a question for you guys. What cards in mono-blue Merfolk decks are you most afraid to see?

In this order:

1. Umezawa's Jitte
2. True Name Namesis
3. Coral Helm Commander

Essentiall anything with evasion abilities.

Merfolks can also steal games when they counter early pressue. Merfolk is better in games where both players play only 1 creature each turn.

[Sandro95]

Could you post your list please? I'm especially interested in your list since I'm on B splash too, right now. ALso, it's easier for people to give you feedback then. Thank you!

This is the list I played today. :)

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Goblin Piledriver
2 Tarfire
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-gang Commander

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan port
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Badlands
4 Snow-covered Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Fire Covenant

The Fire Covenant was just something I wanted to try out last week, and I think there are better options.

[Windmill]

In this order:

1. Umezawa's Jitte
2. True Name Namesis
3. Coral Helm Commander

Essentiall anything with evasion abilities.

Merfolks can also steal games when they counter early pressue. Merfolk is better in games where both players play only 1 creature each turn.
That is interesting. In my game I almost won, my Coral Helm Commander was my general who almost took me to victory. The problem though is that what you're describing - a low number of goblins - just didn't happen. My opponent had a board FULL of them - much more than me. It was my first ever legacy match and I suspect I let him play in a way that let insane numbers get onto the board. But its like, OK, I can get out 3-4 of my guys, but then he gets out 6-8 and so it becomes hard to stabalize.

[GoboLord]

That is interesting. In my game I almost won, my Coral Helm Commander was my general who almost took me to victory. The problem though is that what you're describing - a low number of goblins - just didn't happen. My opponent had a board FULL of them - much more than me. It was my first ever legacy match and I suspect I let him play in a way that let insane numbers get onto the board. But its like, OK, I can get out 3-4 of my guys, but then he gets out 6-8 and so it becomes hard to stabalize.

Well, the Matchup isn't that complicated. I suggest you to ask your opponent to play some more games for fun after you finished your "official" tournament games. You will quickly get a feeling for how the matchups works. What you described just now is stereotypical for the MU, and I'm sure you will find it hard to beat the green guys consistantly.

/EDIT: I think its very important for Merfolks not get into lategame ad to curve out in the first 4 turns. WHen you manage to have all your lands tapped at end of turn AND if you have 3-4 ands by turn 4 you should be having less troubles. It's easy to fall behind in the MU.

[Windmill]

Well, the Matchup isn't that complicated. I suggest you to ask your opponent to play some more games for fun after you finished your "official" tournament games. You will quickly get a feeling for how the matchups works. What you described just now is stereotypical for the MU, and I'm sure you will find it hard to beat the green guys consistantly.
I will do that. Thanks! I guess I just need to know when to block, and when to let damage go through. I'm guessing that in general, I'll use my merfolk for blocking and stablizing - then aim to bring out evasion and even better, equip with Jitte and use that to win.

[LeoCop 90]

I will do that. Thanks! I guess I just need to know when to block, and when to let damage go through. I'm guessing that in general, I'll use my merfolk for blocking and stablizing - then aim to bring out evasion and even better, equip with Jitte and use that to win.

I think you misunderstood gobolord's answers; i'll try to make things more clear, hoping to be experienced enough to do this... if i'm wrong, then our Lord can correct me :)

When you play against goblins with merfolk, you are the aggro deck, and we are the control deck. Goblins want to stabilize and then win the game in mid-late game thanks to the card advantage of matrons and ringleaders... very few decks in legacy can win against goblins in late game.
The cards you and Gobolord mentioned (jitte and coralhelm) are very important and could win games against us, but ONLY if you manage to put up enough pressure in the early turns, so that we reach mid-late game with a low life total. That was what gobolord meant when he said you need to curve out in the early turns.

other advices: if you can, kill piledriver (with dismember or blocking him with mutavault). Never let lackey connect. Counter our 1st turn aether vial. if your mutavault is a creature, it adds to the count of our gempalm incinerator damage.

I hope this can be helpful.

[Windmill]

I think you misunderstood gobolord's answers; i'll try to make things more clear, hoping to be experienced enough to do this... if i'm wrong, then our Lord can correct me :)

When you play against goblins with merfolk, you are the aggro deck, and we are the control deck. Goblins want to stabilize and then win the game in mid-late game thanks to the card advantage of matrons and ringleaders... very few decks in legacy can win against goblins in late game.
The cards you and Gobolord mentioned (jitte and coralhelm) are very important and could win games against us, but ONLY if you manage to put up enough pressure in the early turns, so that we reach mid-late game with a low life total. That was what gobolord meant when he said you need to curve out in the early turns.

other advices: if you can, kill piledriver (with dismember or blocking him with mutavault). Never let lackey connect. Counter our 1st turn aether vial. if your mutavault is a creature, it adds to the count of our gempalm incinerator damage.

I hope this can be helpful.
Ah, thank you! This analysis was very helpful. Also quite disheartening. Unless I get a 'nut draw', it seems that beating Goblins is going to be very hard. We're trending towards 3 mutavaults instead of 4, our only way to block piledriver and it escapes tidebender. Dismember is less useful now because we have other cards to fight non-goblin decks, so I think that dismember will probably be trending out as well. Still - your post and the front page of this was AMAZINGLY helpful, I now understand what all of the different pieces do and their ultimate goal plan. Thanks!

[jrw1985]

So there is a new commander card that has me interested. Sudden Demise (http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/commander-2013/sudden-demise) . I don't know if it is a better option than Pyrokinesis out of the SB, but it is something to at least consider as a 2-1, 1-1 split. It is certainly better in many instances then Pyro. I am just curious if anyone has tested this card, or seen it actually be played.

I played Rb Goblins tonight and ran 2 Sudden Demise in the sideboard. R1 I was paired against Elves! Sudden Demise was pretty boss, never worse than a 2-for-1 for R1. Too bad I lost G1 thanks to a mull to 5 and G3 because I couldn't hit a 3rd land. So it goes.


As you already know, I decided to play Goblins in Brazilian Natz this year again.
...
Thanks for reading, for the cheers and for the support!

You're a fucking legend Marcelo! Congratulations.

[andrebonotto]

(...) I decided to play Goblins in Brazilian Natz this year again. (...)
(...)

Match 1: Elves
(...)
Game 2 – He plays Shaman, I Tarfire it. He plays an elf, Cradle, and passes. I Waste Cradle. He plays Wirewood Simbiote, I play CotV@1 and Port the shit out of his basic. That wins the game after some dudes.
-Got quite luckythere, but the elves manabase does got a lot worse trough time. No shame on taking advantage of it.
(...)

Thanks for reading, for the cheers and for the support!

Thanks for the report! It was a nice reading.

IRT you "manascrewing" the elf deck, I must confess it happened to me once, while I was playing with the forest guys, and one should always take advantage of it when it happens, LOL... :laugh:


IRT your Top8 match... that was a tough one. Shame that you didn't take that last game. But variance is a thing, to the better or the worst :frown:

All in all, congrats on your performance, again!

[Sockosensei]

I haven't posted here in several months, but I've been following the thread throughout.
I've been playing the Kenny Dungar list with Thalia and 5 haste lords, but have done worse with it than with any other list I've tried. Not blaming the list as I'm still very much a Warchief-in-Training. Nevertheless, I need a change and have been inspired by the Warren Instigator lists posted by Gobolord recently, ScatmanX some time ago, and the Cedric Phillips list from 9/2012.

Here's what I've got at the moment:

Goblins (34)
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Warren Instigator
3x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

2x Tarfire
2x Warren Weirding
3x Gempalm Incinerator

Other (4)
4x AEther Vial

Land (22)
3x Badlands
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Cavern of Souls
3x Mountain
4x Wasteland
4x Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Earwig Squad
3x Perish
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Tuktuk Scrapper


I've tried to keep the number of one-drops, two-drops, and total goblins (34) as high as possible.
I'm open to replacing two lands with Chrome Mox for speed. Will test it both ways.


Questions

Warren Weirding is proving to be very effective. Yet at the same time, having those as the only black cards in the main means I'll frequently need to reveal the black splash in game 1 just to access this card. --> Is it worth it?
Ringleader & Shuffle effects: On the one hand, fetching lands out before playing Ringleaders should give an improvement, however marginal. On the other hand, once you've stacked the bottom of the deck with non-goblins after Ringleading, the last thing you want to do is shuffle those back in! Has this been analyzed and number-crunched, and if so, could you point me to it? How many shuffle effects are optimal? Should I replace some fetches with a 4th Badlands and perhaps an Auntie's Hovel?
How many slots should I devote to the 'finisher' goblins, Krenko, SGC (or Lightning Crafter/Kiki-Jiki) that I hope to cheat into play with my 8 Lackey effects?


I'm looking forward to your feedback.

[woodjt5]

I'll try to respond to your questions:

1. I don't think that revealing the black splash in game 1 is that big of a deal. I can't imagine very many Legacy players sideboarding or playing much differently in games 2 and 3 because they see the black.

2. I don't remember who did it or when, but the numbers have been crunched. If you aren't splashing, your ringleaders will be better with fewer shuffle effects. For example, I run no fetches in mono-red for this reason. You don't want to shuffle the chaff back in.

3. I play 2 finishers in a more traditional version. I use 2 Krenko. However, with more lackey effects, you probably want this number to be higher. Maybe 2 Krenko, 1 Siege Gang, 1 Kiki-jiki. When I played a WInstigator list, Krenko wasn't printed yet. I think I played 2 Siege Gang and 1 Kiki-jiki.

I hope this was helpful.

[ScatmanX]

I'm looking forward to your feedback.
1 - Don't worry about revealing B. The games don't play out that differently. One of the most relevant things I can think of is people not overextending into Perish, but since you have lots of Lackeys, they have to have lots of dudes to attack and block, or lots of removal, so no biggy there.
2 - Fetch when it's safe. Fetch before Ringleaders. Try not to fetch after them. The % of cards you win is extremely small, and is not worth being less/more susceptible to Waste/Stifle then what your color requirements demand. Construct a manabase that makes you feel safe, and play according to it.
3 - 2-3 'finishers' would be my pick, like traditional lists. The deal is that Instigator connecting is WAY more powerfull than Lackey, so even if you have just a Matron or Ringleader in hand, you'll pretty likely be winning the game. I usually like a Kiki-Jiki in the Gator build. Droping Matron>Kiki, then Kiki, and you get to search for whatever you want next turn is great. Also, Gator dropping Piledriver/Chieftain + Kiki is a 2 swing kill.
Another thing is that with 4 Chieftains there is a good chance of having more than 1 out, making almost all your other goblins into 'finishers

[jrw1985]

@ScatmanX: I tried out 2 Chrome Mox in a mono red build last night. I must say, I was pretty impressed. It gave a nice speed boost which might be just what we need these days. It lets you do some silly things like Waste plus one drop or Tarfire T1. I just need to find a way to cram 2 Tarfire in now! The build I played last night ran 7 lords, which is pretty much the shit. But they make the rest of the list pretty tight.

I also ran 2 Tuktuk maindeck. They were boss as well. So long as every SFM deck runs Jitte and batterskull why not run 2 tuktuk? In decks that run equipment those equipment cards are usually the only relevant threats to us, so why not just shut them off with Tuktuk?

[ScatmanX]

@ScatmanX: I tried out 2 Chrome Mox in a mono red build last night. I must say, I was pretty impressed. It gave a nice speed boost which might be just what we need these days. It lets you do some silly things like Waste plus one drop or Tarfire T1. I just need to find a way to cram 2 Tarfire in now! The build I played last night ran 7 lords, which is pretty much the shit. But they make the rest of the list pretty tight.

I also ran 2 Tuktuk maindeck. They were boss as well. So long as every SFM deck runs Jitte and batterskull why not run 2 tuktuk? In decks that run equipment those equipment cards are usually the only relevant threats to us, so why not just shut them off with Tuktuk?
Pretty much the conclusion I get on the 1st part. Also, T1 WMM, or T2 Warchief can speed the deck a LOT.

@2 Tuktuk: Don't know if we really need 2 MD. If TNN is not around, Batter is just not that scary. If it is, and they reach 5 mana, then we really are screwed. Still, think that running 2 Tuktuk MD will decrease your chances of winning against more decks than it will increase against just 1 archetype, that we're quite good against nonetheless. Try running the 2nd on the SB, and tell me if I'm wrong or not later.

[max_goblin]

Hello,

Yesterday I was able to play a small legacy tournament, and went 2-2,
My list was

4 port
4 waste
4 cavern
10 Mountain

4 aether vial

4 lackey
4 MWM
4 Pile
3 Warchief
2 Chieftain
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 krenko
1 tuktuk

2 tarfire
4 gempalm
1 stingscouger

SB
1 tuk tuk
1 Boar
2 Needle
3 Pyro
4 Relic
4 CotV

Well, lets talk about the games.

R1, D&T
G1, I won the roll, go mountain lackey, he dont cast a drop1, lackey connects => ringleader => removal, gg.
SB: out 4 lackey, in 3 pyro + tuktuk. on draw.
G2, He starts and was able to wast + port me, after that, jitte comes and I have never found more lands to use my tuk tuk in hand.. (rage).
SB: Out 4 vials, in 4 lackeys, on play.
G3, I start again, he has sword to my lackey, but I am able to develop a better board position and kill all his creatures, so he cant equip, and I win.
1-0
R2, True Merfolk.
G1, I dont remeber very well, but after a mulligan i kept a slow hand, well, I know he was merfolk and I had removal so I kept. He also starts slows, making lords and a true, I kept killing the lords while trying to not die to true, after that, I just overload the table with haste goblins + piledriver = win.
G2, Out 2 lackey, 1 tuk tuk. In 3 pyro. I really think that, if you kill the lords, True is too slow and we can win.
G2, I mull into decent 6 + removal, he goes vial, I lackey, he goes dismember, I try to win some time with MWM, he founds true + non-lords merfolk, and start to kill me, I chump the best I can, found removal, kill thel lords he play, and again, overload the table + piledriver. Ok, I love this guy =].
After the game I said to him that he should play jitte for True, he shows me 2 jitte that never saw the day light.. ouch.. and I took tuktuk out.

I was pretty confident right here at 2-0, but them my nightmare begans!

R3, D&T.
G1, He starts. He goes very strong, with mother turn 1, that meets tarfire, turn 2 port, turn 3 gaga + SoFI, turn 4 creature equips, creature, creature..gg. Its really hard to win from D&T when they find they equippment and a lot of creatures. I had tuk tuk in hand, but couldnt cast it, because he waste + port a lot.
Out 4 vial, in 3 pyro + tuktuk.
G2, I go lackey, that drops a ringleader, after that we trade some creatures with removals, but we end with him play gaga for jitte, and I at 3 mana again... The wastelands and ports kept me off tuk tuk again, and I lose with 2 tuk tuk in my hand for just a crusader with SoFI and Jitte..

R4, Esper Blade.
G1, I believe he goes for delver, I go for lackey, he drop a land and pass, I tarfire his delver he swords my lackey. I pass, he founds gaga for jitte, I try to kill his creatures he found more and I didnt find more removal, I lost to gaga + jitte a lot of turns later, chump blocking a lot, but never enough.
Out, 4 Vial, in 3 pyro + tuk tuk.
G2, It was already 2 a.m., and I didnt remember much, all I know is that he starts bad, swords in a lackey, drops 2 delvers and a grim lavamancer, I kill both delvers, and kept playing goblins after goblins, he try to kill some, but he finds a SoFI, i destroy it with tuktuk, he them top decks his batter, I chump trying to find something usufull, found krenko, but before I can cast it he just found his jitte and I give up..

I belive I made some mistakes, playing after midnight is really tiring, what I found was this:
Pyro is good/decent most of the time. Tuk tuk MD is really a must! In 4 rows I found 4 jitte!
Against equippment decks, if you can kill their creatures, most of the time we can win in the long of the run.
TNN is really not that scary, it made merfolk match a bit more problematic, but not impossible, he is too slow, if you destroy equippment or kill the lords, you have a lot of time to just out race them.
I really hate Jitte, all games I lost was because of this card. The problem is that: If you cant destroy jitte or dont have removal, you lost. You can try to survive, but in the long of the run, it will have a lot of counters and every swing is at least one goblin dead.
I thought in skirk prospector in the tournament, but every time I imagine him at the table I just found that he would grab me more time or just be sworded, but not enought time to solve the problem.
I found that 22 lands can be not enough. If they do not play 4 wastes, + 4 ports, that is not that much of a problem, but at least in 4 games I lost because I had no mana to cast my creatures, or was mana screwed by my opponent, just in one game I really didnt draw more lands.

Am I playing wrong against Jitte? Do you guys have any advice?
Sorry about the writting, I am a bit lazy to search for mistakes.
Cya.

[Sockosensei]

Much obliged for the replies.


I'll try to respond to your questions:
1. I don't think that revealing the black splash in game 1 is that big of a deal. I can't imagine very many Legacy players sideboarding or playing much differently in games 2 and 3 because they see the black.
1 - Don't worry about revealing B. The games don't play out that differently. One of the most relevant things I can think of is people not overextending into Perish, but since you have lots of Lackeys, they have to have lots of dudes to attack and block, or lots of removal, so no biggy there.
Okay, I'll try not to overthink this. I just remember Gobolord mentioning it a long time ago.



2. I don't remember who did it or when, but the numbers have been crunched. If you aren't splashing, your ringleaders will be better with fewer shuffle effects. For example, I run no fetches in mono-red for this reason. You don't want to shuffle the chaff back in.
2 - Fetch when it's safe. Fetch before Ringleaders. Try not to fetch after them. The % of cards you win is extremely small, and is not worth being less/more susceptible to Waste/Stifle then what your color requirements demand. Construct a manabase that makes you feel safe, and play according to it.I'll try -2 Fetch, +1 Badlands, +1 Auntie's Hovel and see where that leaves me. On a related note, I goldfished about 20 hands of your build from Brazilian Natz, ScatmanX, and had the most consistent Ringleaders I've ever seen. Could have just been a hot streak, but it really got me thinking about the effects of shuffles and the goblin-to-nongoblin ratio. If anyone has a link to that analysis woodjt5 mentioned, please let me know.



3. I play 2 finishers in a more traditional version. I use 2 Krenko. However, with more lackey effects, you probably want this number to be higher. Maybe 2 Krenko, 1 Siege Gang, 1 Kiki-jiki. When I played a WInstigator list, Krenko wasn't printed yet. I think I played 2 Siege Gang and 1 Kiki-jiki.
3 - 2-3 'finishers' would be my pick, like traditional lists. The deal is that Instigator connecting is WAY more powerfull than Lackey, so even if you have just a Matron or Ringleader in hand, you'll pretty likely be winning the game. I usually like a Kiki-Jiki in the Gator build. Droping Matron>Kiki, then Kiki, and you get to search for whatever you want next turn is great. Also, Gator dropping Piledriver/Chieftain + Kiki is a 2 swing kill.
Another thing is that with 4 Chieftains there is a good chance of having more than 1 out, making almost all your other goblins into 'finishers
I was concerned at even running SGC since I didn't want 5cc goblins (don't want to tick Vial to 5), but the game ending potential of Kiki is undeniable. I'll try one each of Krenko, SGC, and Kiki.

Thanks again, and congratulations ScatmanX on the big top 8!

[Bardu]

I took this deck to GP Columbus back in '07 when it was a DTB. I have been largely away from the game since then.

I've been playtesting Jim Davis' lis (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5594&d=232388)t from SCG Philadelphia this year (almost identical to Joey Andrew's from Cleveland). The only new developments he includes are Cavern of Souls and MWM, so it is very comfortable for me, being so similar to the deck I had piloted for so long. I have tested against Canadian Thresh, UWR Delver, Show and Tell, ANT, Elves, and D&T as well as other random jank (I have not tested against Shardless BUG or Jund). I was very happy with the results.

My opinions on a few of the newer adoptions of the deck, feel free to flame. :)
-Warren Instigator: The reason Lackey is good is because it costs R.
-Goblin Chieftan: Glorious Anthem is not the strongest effect. I can see including him for redundancy, but even so he is a three drop.
-Krenko: This one I don't understand at all. He costs four, needs to tap, needs board position, and dies to Lightning Bolt.
-Tarfire: Kills Delver, hatebears, elves, etc. I can understand it as a tutor target, but Shock was never the best card.

Also, where is the love for SGC? Lackey->SGC is one of the reasons to play this deck!

How do you feel about the "classic" list?

[GoboLord]

I've tried to keep the number of one-drops, two-drops, and total goblins (34) as high as possible.
I'm open to replacing two lands with Chrome Mox for speed. Will test it both ways.


Questions

Warren Weirding is proving to be very effective. Yet at the same time, having those as the only black cards in the main means I'll frequently need to reveal the black splash in game 1 just to access this card. --> Is it worth it?
Ringleader & Shuffle effects: On the one hand, fetching lands out before playing Ringleaders should give an improvement, however marginal. On the other hand, once you've stacked the bottom of the deck with non-goblins after Ringleading, the last thing you want to do is shuffle those back in! Has this been analyzed and number-crunched, and if so, could you point me to it? How many shuffle effects are optimal? Should I replace some fetches with a 4th Badlands and perhaps an Auntie's Hovel?
How many slots should I devote to the 'finisher' goblins, Krenko, SGC (or Lightning Crafter/Kiki-Jiki) that I hope to cheat into play with my 8 Lackey effects?


I'm looking forward to your feedback.


(1) You should definitely run Chrome Moxen. At least 2 in MD and I advice 1 more in the SB. That has proven good for ScatmanX and for me (you bring in the #3 Mox mostly in combo MUs and vs. Elves)
(2) Revealing B splash G1. I can't tell for sure if you want Warren Weiridng, but revealing the B splash is definitely not an issue.
(3) Ringleader-reshuffle vs. fetchland-thinning the deck out: It has been analyzed and it makes no difference that we could observe in a regular tournament.
(4) In my oppinion 1 or maximum 2 slots should be enoug for the 'finisher' goblins. I can imagine even devoting 0 slots here, since Goblin Ringleader is quite the matchwinner too. Especially in lists that run 4 Piledrivers and 4 Goblin CHieftain, I think you got a sufficient number of finishers.

[prateta]

Hello, my first tournament report here, although I have been reading this thread for years :-)

Today I went 3-1 on small tourney in Prague. I played budget list of RW goblins (no wastes, no ports). Please excuse the grammar mistakes as english isn't my native language.

Decklist:

Spells & Artifacts

3x Tarfire
4x Vial

Creatures

1x Sharpshooter
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
3x Gempalm
2x Krenko
3x Warchief
3x Piledriver
4x Ringleader
4x Matron
2x Chieftain
2x MWM
4x Lackey

Lands

1x Plateau
4x Cavern
4x Bloodstained Mire
14x Mountain

SB:

1x Rest In Peace
3x Relic of Progenitus (wanted to play 4x RiP, but somehow couldn't get my hands on a playset the evening before the tourney started... so I decided to improvise with this - imo good - alternative)
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Pyrokinesis
4x Wear//Tear
1x Stingscourger


Now the games...

Round 1 - RGB with punishing fire (don't know the exact name of the deck... it included such cards as goyfs, confidants, bloodbraid elf, maelstrom pulse, thoughtseize, ooze, liliana...) - 2:0

G1: I am on play, keep very nice hand with vial, 3 lands, chieftain, warchief, ringleader. He mulls to 6. I open with mountain, vial and let him play. He starts with thoughtseize for my ringleader and passes the turn. I draw piledriver, +1 vial, play piledriver and let him play. He then puts second land and plays two! more thoughtseizes, getting me off my chieftain and warchief. I thought this didn't go well, then I realised he has almost no board position and I don't care about some discards. I got lucky with topdecks then, topdecked ringleader into 4 goblins (some haste lord, krenko, removal). He starts playing oozes and goyfs who all eat my removals, until few turns later I win the game with krenko tokens.

G2: He starts, keeping his 7, neither do I. He plays t1 land and thougthseize (again? seriusly?), discarding my matron. I topdeck my only RiP in first draw and play it the turn after. He never got into the game after this (couldn't find abrupt decay for RiP), so I just proceeded to kill all his useless oozes and goyfs, and once again, finished with Krenko few turns later. This was a supreme start for me, I kissed Krenko's face, went for a cigarette just 5 minutes before round 2 started. Perfect timing.

1 - 0

Round 2 - GW Maverick - 2:0

G1: I'm on play once again. I keep insane! hand containing: lackey, 3 lands, warchief, ringleader, krenko. I go mountain, lackey, pass. He plays savannah, hierarch and passes. I topdeck gempalm, put mountain into play, burn hierarch and connect with lackey which resolves for warchief. Next turn he plays another savannah and one more hierarch, pass. I topdeck tarfire, burn second hierarch, and go 3 damage (lackey + chief), lackey resolves once again, this time for Krenko, pass. He plays scavenging ooze and pass, I make some tokens at the end of his turn. In my turn I play ringleader into 3 goblins (2 of them matron), then I don't remember what happened exactly. All I know is that once again I won with board full of 1/1 tokens from krenko. He couldn't find sword, poor guy.

G2: I'm on draw, keeping average hand, rather bad and slow. It's due to be noted I'm afraid to mulligan. He starts with t1 mother, t2 sfm for jitte, then in next turns he has every single good card from Maverick on board. Sfm, jitte, mother, ooze, hierarch, reliquary (like 8/8 at the time he was relevant). I'm chumpblocking as a motherfucker, trying to establish at least some board position. I remember him getting me down to 5 life, when I managed to get my hands on matron into tuktuk, getting rid of jitte. I also removed Relic, to get rid of reliquary and stingscourgered his Ooze. This was a long game (like 25 minutes). My biggest advantage was that he was so sure he was going to win, that he spent his swords for killing tuktuk and those shits, just to kill me fastest as possible with his big creatures. I managed to drive into lategame, where I managed to get a board position looking apx like this: few 1/1 goblins (matrons, tokens from MWM), 2 chieftains, 1 krenko. I play krenko's ability at the end of his turn, then in my turn topdeck krenko, play first krenko's ability, legend rule him out, play again with new krenko. From not-so-good position I stormed out with 32x 3/3 goblins in one turn.

2 - 0

Round 3 - Canadian Threshold - 2:0

G1: I am on play again (what a luck), keep very good hand with lackey, removal, matron, ringleader. Play lackey, he plays something, I remove it next turn and connect. Like 5 turns later I win the game with double piledriver and some minions, this was very easy game for me, once again I was gifted with awesome topdecks versus him topdecking lands 3 turns in a row.

G2: I'm on draw, I keep rather slow hand (like G2 against Maverick) with Relic of Progenitus. He plays t1 goose, t2 two gooses. He gets threshold by turn 4, way too fast for me and starts grinding my ass. In order to get this threshold he had to wasteland his own dual land, but after my insane g1 speed he thought this is the only way to beat me. He almost succeeded, killing and countering my goblins with three shroud monsters on board, I go down to 5 life. Then magic happens, he has 1 land in play (UG I think), 3 cards in hand. I finally get to play some goblins and start blocking those crazy squirrels. Even killing some of them during the combat. As it always is, goblins rock late game. I win few turns later with swarm of Krenko's tokens. Afterwards he shows me what 3 cards he had in hand. He is furious of anger, because those 3 cards were 3 lightning bolts and I had 5 life. He never got his hand on a red source, such a bad luck.

3 - 0

Round 4, final round - High Tide - 0:2

G1: I get him down to 7, then he goes off. I haven't come prepared for this shit.
G2: I side in 3 pyrostatic pillar and all grave hate (don't even know why, I kind of gave up when I saw him playing high tide deck). I get him down to 3! thanks to pyrostatic pillar and some attack. Turn after I got him down to 3 (with 1 tarfire in hand and 1 mana untapped), he bounces my pillar and goes off. I hit his head with tarfire in response to time spiral, draw another tafire, but have no lands to cast it.

3 - 1

So that's it, I finished second, beaten only by high tide. I got foil Scavenging Ooze and 2 booster packs for my effort.

My notes from the tournament:

1) Tarfire counts as BOTH tribal AND instant for goyf. Good to know, I tried to burn down goyf in one game, all graves empty and thanks to this he didn't die.
2) Sharpshooter is awesome against Maverick.
3) Tuktuk MD is a must.
4) Don't go to a tournament with cards you are not familiar with. I wanted to play 4 RiP, ended up playing 3 relics which I didn't know the proper interactions for. That almost costed me a game against canadian, I was so bad using it.
5) It's impossible to beat high tide without proper sideboard. 3 pyrostatic pillars were rather useless in this match, next time I shall focus on more combo hate.
6) Krenko is the best finisher I can imagine. There hasn't been a game where I'd rather see Kiki/SGC on board instead of Krenko.

I hope you enjoyed my report and survived all those grammatical mistakes :-) I wanted to share it with you, because this forum has been a great source of information for me. Therefore I wanted to give something IN too. Have a good day!

[Sandro95]

Hello, my first tournament report here, although I have been reading this thread for years :-)

Today I went 3-1 on small tourney in Prague. I played budget list of RW goblins (no wastes, no ports). Please excuse the grammar mistakes as english isn't my native language.

Decklist:

Spells & Artifacts

3x Tarfire
4x Vial

Creatures

1x Sharpshooter
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
3x Gempalm
2x Krenko
3x Warchief
3x Piledriver
4x Ringleader
4x Matron
2x Chieftain
2x MWM
4x Lackey

Lands

1x Plateau
4x Cavern
4x Bloodstained Mire
14x Mountain

SB:

1x Rest In Peace
3x Relic of Progenitus (wanted to play 4x RiP, but somehow couldn't get my hands on a playset the evening before the tourney started... so I decided to improvise with this - imo good - alternative)
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Pyrokinesis
4x Wear//Tear
1x Stingscourger


Now the games...

Round 1 - RGB with punishing fire (don't know the exact name of the deck... it included such cards as goyfs, confidants, bloodbraid elf, maelstrom pulse, thoughtseize, ooze, liliana...) - 2:0

G1: I am on play, keep very nice hand with vial, 3 lands, chieftain, warchief, ringleader. He mulls to 6. I open with mountain, vial and let him play. He starts with thoughtseize for my ringleader and passes the turn. I draw piledriver, +1 vial, play piledriver and let him play. He then puts second land and plays two! more thoughtseizes, getting me off my chieftain and warchief. I thought this didn't go well, then I realised he has almost no board position and I don't care about some discards. I got lucky with topdecks then, topdecked ringleader into 4 goblins (some haste lord, krenko, removal). He starts playing oozes and goyfs who all eat my removals, until few turns later I win the game with krenko tokens.

G2: He starts, keeping his 7, neither do I. He plays t1 land and thougthseize (again? seriusly?), discarding my matron. I topdeck my only RiP in first draw and play it the turn after. He never got into the game after this (couldn't find abrupt decay for RiP), so I just proceeded to kill all his useless oozes and goyfs, and once again, finished with Krenko few turns later. This was a supreme start for me, I kissed Krenko's face, went for a cigarette just 5 minutes before round 2 started. Perfect timing.

1 - 0

Round 2 - GW Maverick - 2:0

G1: I'm on play once again. I keep insane! hand containing: lackey, 3 lands, warchief, ringleader, krenko. I go mountain, lackey, pass. He plays savannah, hierarch and passes. I topdeck gempalm, put mountain into play, burn hierarch and connect with lackey which resolves for warchief. Next turn he plays another savannah and one more hierarch, pass. I topdeck tarfire, burn second hierarch, and go 3 damage (lackey + chief), lackey resolves once again, this time for Krenko, pass. He plays scavenging ooze and pass, I make some tokens at the end of his turn. In my turn I play ringleader into 3 goblins (2 of them matron), then I don't remember what happened exactly. All I know is that once again I won with board full of 1/1 tokens from krenko. He couldn't find sword, poor guy.

G2: I'm on draw, keeping average hand, rather bad and slow. It's due to be noted I'm afraid to mulligan. He starts with t1 mother, t2 sfm for jitte, then in next turns he has every single good card from Maverick on board. Sfm, jitte, mother, ooze, hierarch, reliquary (like 8/8 at the time he was relevant). I'm chumpblocking as a motherfucker, trying to establish at least some board position. I remember him getting me down to 5 life, when I managed to get my hands on matron into tuktuk, getting rid of jitte. I also removed Relic, to get rid of reliquary and stingscourgered his Ooze. This was a long game (like 25 minutes). My biggest advantage was that he was so sure he was going to win, that he spent his swords for killing tuktuk and those shits, just to kill me fastest as possible with his big creatures. I managed to drive into lategame, where I managed to get a board position looking apx like this: few 1/1 goblins (matrons, tokens from MWM), 2 chieftains, 1 krenko. I play krenko's ability at the end of his turn, then in my turn topdeck krenko, play first krenko's ability, legend rule him out, play again with new krenko. From not-so-good position I stormed out with 32x 3/3 goblins in one turn.

2 - 0

Round 3 - Canadian Threshold - 2:0

G1: I am on play again (what a luck), keep very good hand with lackey, removal, matron, ringleader. Play lackey, he plays something, I remove it next turn and connect. Like 5 turns later I win the game with double piledriver and some minions, this was very easy game for me, once again I was gifted with awesome topdecks versus him topdecking lands 3 turns in a row.

G2: I'm on draw, I keep rather slow hand (like G2 against Maverick) with Relic of Progenitus. He plays t1 goose, t2 two gooses. He gets threshold by turn 4, way too fast for me and starts grinding my ass. In order to get this threshold he had to wasteland his own dual land, but after my insane g1 speed he thought this is the only way to beat me. He almost succeeded, killing and countering my goblins with three shroud monsters on board, I go down to 5 life. Then magic happens, he has 1 land in play (UG I think), 3 cards in hand. I finally get to play some goblins and start blocking those crazy squirrels. Even killing some of them during the combat. As it always is, goblins rock late game. I win few turns later with swarm of Krenko's tokens. Afterwards he shows me what 3 cards he had in hand. He is furious of anger, because those 3 cards were 3 lightning bolts and I had 5 life. He never got his hand on a red source, such a bad luck.

3 - 0

Round 4, final round - High Tide - 0:2

G1: I get him down to 7, then he goes off. I haven't come prepared for this shit.
G2: I side in 3 pyrostatic pillar and all grave hate (don't even know why, I kind of gave up when I saw him playing high tide deck). I get him down to 3! thanks to pyrostatic pillar and some attack. Turn after I got him down to 3 (with 1 tarfire in hand and 1 mana untapped), he bounces my pillar and goes off. I hit his head with tarfire in response to time spiral, draw another tafire, but have no lands to cast it.

3 - 1

So that's it, I finished second, beaten only by high tide. I got foil Scavenging Ooze and 2 booster packs for my effort.

My notes from the tournament:

1) Tarfire counts as BOTH tribal AND instant for goyf. Good to know, I tried to burn down goyf in one game, all graves empty and thanks to this he didn't die.
2) Sharpshooter is awesome against Maverick.
3) Tuktuk MD is a must.
4) Don't go to a tournament with cards you are not familiar with. I wanted to play 4 RiP, ended up playing 3 relics which I didn't know the proper interactions for. That almost costed me a game against canadian, I was so bad using it.
5) It's impossible to beat high tide without proper sideboard. 3 pyrostatic pillars were rather useless in this match, next time I shall focus on more combo hate.
6) Krenko is the best finisher I can imagine. There hasn't been a game where I'd rather see Kiki/SGC on board instead of Krenko.

I hope you enjoyed my report and survived all those grammatical mistakes :-) I wanted to share it with you, because this forum has been a great source of information for me. Therefore I wanted to give something IN too. Have a good day!

Congratulations on your results! In my personal experience High Tide isn't a very bad matchup, it is possible your opponent just drew well. Normally, they're a fairly slow combo deck, in other words, one we can race. Anyways, once again, congratulations and thanks for an informative report.

[goblinsplayer]

Hi, i did not do well on the legacy challenge today and i wonder if there is something i need to change with my list. Espically the sb. Can you help me tune it for the open tomorrow?

4 lackey
4 matron
4 ringleader
4 warchief
4 mwm
3 piledriver
3 gempalm
2 tarfire
1 shooter
1 chieftain
1 krenko
1 stingscourger
1 tuktuk
4 vial

4 port
4 wasteland
4 cavern
10 mountain

Sb
4 cotv
3 reb
2 mindbreak trap
3 relic
3 pyrokinesis

[andrebonotto]

Hello,

Yesterday I was able to play a small legacy tournament, and went 2-2,

(...)


R1, D&T
G1, I won the roll, go mountain lackey, he dont cast a drop1, lackey connects => ringleader => removal, gg.
(...)


R3, D&T.
(...)
G2, I go lackey, that drops a ringleader, after that we trade some creatures with removals, but we end with him play gaga for jitte, and I at 3 mana again... The wastelands and ports kept me off tuk tuk again, and I lose with 2 tuk tuk in my hand for just a crusader with SoFI and Jitte..

(...)
Am I playing wrong against Jitte? Do you guys have any advice?
Sorry about the writting, I am a bit lazy to search for mistakes.
Cya.

Hi max,


I couldn't help but notice that more than once you've dropped a Ringleader from a Lackey that connected very early.

I know that the idea of reaching some (more) early removal through Ringleader is a tempting one, to try to control the board.
However, maybe this early Ringleader is related to your lack of getting enough lands to continue developing your board (and playing your Tuk-Tuk, as you mentioned).

(i.e., you may get your goblin-attached removal, but at the same time you may not get the lands that you needed to draw, since you throw them at the bottom of your library).

What do you think about it?

Maybe you could test some games where you try to hold your Ringleaders a bit longer until you draw some more lands, and see if that makes any difference?

It was just something that occurred me...

Best wishes,

- André

[Barbed Blightning]

Hi, i did not do well on the legacy challenge today and i wonder if there is something i need to change with my list. Espically the sb. Can you help me tune it for the open tomorrow?

4 lackey
4 matron
4 ringleader
4 warchief
4 mwm
3 piledriver
3 gempalm
2 tarfire
1 shooter
1 chieftain
1 krenko
1 stingscourger
1 tuktuk
4 vial

4 port
4 wasteland
4 cavern
10 mountain

Sb
4 cotv
3 reb
2 mindbreak trap
3 relic
3 pyrokinesis

Not much to rune, tbh, but the rebs have never felt good in this deck, IMHO. What about CitR?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[goblinsplayer]

Not much to rune, tbh, but the rebs have never felt good in this deck, IMHO. What about CitR?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

JC, I don't have access to citr and don't know how to play them. Thanks for the advice though. How are you doing in seattle?

[Sockosensei]

(1) You should definitely run Chrome Moxen. At least 2 in MD and I advice 1 more in the SB. That has proven good for ScatmanX and for me (you bring in the #3 Mox mostly in combo MUs and vs. Elves)
(2) Revealing B splash G1. I can't tell for sure if you want Warren Weiridng, but revealing the B splash is definitely not an issue.
(3) Ringleader-reshuffle vs. fetchland-thinning the deck out: It has been analyzed and it makes no difference that we could observe in a regular tournament.
(4) In my oppinion 1 or maximum 2 slots should be enoug for the 'finisher' goblins. I can imagine even devoting 0 slots here, since Goblin Ringleader is quite the matchwinner too. Especially in lists that run 4 Piledrivers and 4 Goblin CHieftain, I think you got a sufficient number of finishers.

(1) I'll certainly test it. Sometimes the choice I need to make with it just breaks my fragile heart.
(2) I'm very happy with the effectiveness of Warren Weirding as a card. The issue is more the risk of fetching a Badlands early and exposing myself to Wasteland.
(3) Great, thanks!
(4) Understandable, and indeed this is indeed something I'm considering. 7 hastelords supporting crazy card advantage engines and powerful two-drops seems powerful on its own.
Thanks!



-Warren Instigator: The reason Lackey is good is because it costs R.
No doubt that's the key to Lackey's power. No one's talking about replacing one card with the other. Rather it's one in addition to the other, giving you 8 early creatures with such effects. By running 4 Lackey, 4 WI, 4 Piledriver, you've got 12 early creatures that opponents MUST deal with, 8 of them immediately, and the Chieftains make them that much harder to kill. Whether the WI lists find the consistency of the Classic lists is still under investigation; the potential power is awesome.

[GoblinSettler]

(i.e., you may get your goblin-attached removal, but at the same time you may not get the lands that you needed to draw, since you throw them at the bottom of your library).

I've had the same thought, but I don't think it's valid. The chances of having X lands in your top 4 cards is the same as having X lands in cards 5-8. You may see the perfect distribution of lands go to the bottom and weep. But that doesn't mean you won't peel lands after the ringleader either.

It's different if you are looking for a particular land. If you need to top deck the last Cavern in the library that's four draws at sending it to the bottom.

[max_goblin]

Hi max,


I couldn't help but notice that more than once you've dropped a Ringleader from a Lackey that connected very early.

I know that the idea of reaching some (more) early removal through Ringleader is a tempting one, to try to control the board.
However, maybe this early Ringleader is related to your lack of getting enough lands to continue developing your board (and playing your Tuk-Tuk, as you mentioned).

(i.e., you may get your goblin-attached removal, but at the same time you may not get the lands that you needed to draw, since you throw them at the bottom of your library).

What do you think about it?

Maybe you could test some games where you try to hold your Ringleaders a bit longer until you draw some more lands, and see if that makes any difference?

It was just something that occurred me...

Best wishes,

- André

Thx for reading it =]
I think in the same way as GoblinSettler, but, I agree that dropping an early ringleader is not optional.

Most of the time I try to make my lackeys accel the best of my game, so dropping a 4cost creature is better than dropping a 3cost one. But I lost a lot of games with a full hand, but no board pressure. The problem I found is the following:
Most of the time I have to choose, drop a 2drop from a lackey, or, drop a matron/ringleader, but a two drop is something I can easily cast, but ringleader/matron are cards that I want to cast later in the game, so I can bring my CA to work.

The changes I would like to try:
-1 Gempalm +1 tarfire (ScatmanX cant be wrong, and this really sound good for me).
and I want to bring one more chieftain, so my MWM, Lackeys and Matrons are good even in the late game. I believe that what made me lose was the fact that I didnt have enough board pressure =/

[ScatmanX]

-Warren Instigator: The reason Lackey is good is because it costs R. And the reason Instigator is good is because he has Double Strike. Don't get the point
-Goblin Chieftan: Glorious Anthem is not the strongest effect. I can see including him for redundancy, but even so he is a three drop. Haste is also pretty good in goblins too you know... and turning your 1/1s into 2/2s in a world of 1/2s is actually quite good (imagine if there was a way to pump a double striking goblins... that'd be awesome uh?
-Krenko: This one I don't understand at all. He costs four less than our other finishers), needs to tapSo, great with more haste enablers right? wonder where we can find those...), needs board position(If by 'board position' you mean him and any other goblin, then right...), and dies to Lightning Bolt(guess you shouldn't play goblins if you want to play a deck where your guys don't die to Lightning Bolt...).
-Tarfire: Kills Delver, hatebears, elves, etc. I can understand it as a tutor target, but Shock was never the best card (Mogg Fanatic was, and this is a straight upgrade in a world with Stoneforge, Delver, Shaman, Bob, yadayada... Don't underestimate the 'being a goblin' part. Read some reports.

@prateta and max: Thanks for the reports.

Hi, i did not do well on the legacy challenge today and i wonder if there is something i need to change with my list. Espically the sb. Can you help me tune it for the open tomorrow?
Nothing wrong with the decklist. Maybe posting how you lost the games and how you sideboarded can help more than changing it outright.


I've had the same thought, but I don't think it's valid. The chances of having X lands in your top 4 cards is the same as having X lands in cards 5-8. You may see the perfect distribution of lands go to the bottom and weep. But that doesn't mean you won't peel lands after the ringleader either.
This is accurate.


SO,
Check what I played yeasterday:
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Caverns of Souls
1 Karakas
2 Plateau
6 Fetchland
4 Mountain

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief

3 Mogg Warmarchall
1 Goblin Piledriver

1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Tarfire

3 Restorarion Angel
SB:
2 Chalice of the void
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ethersworn Cannonnist
3 Thalia

2 Boartusk Liege

1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Wear / Tear
1 Oblivion Ring

YEAHH! Restoration Angels ! That card is insane in goblins!
Here’s how it played out:

Round 1: Spiral Tide
Game 1: Slow hand got combo’ed out.
In: 8 combo-hate, 2 Boartusk. Out: 7 Removal, 1 Tuktuk, 2 Ringleader
Game 2: Mull and kept Lackey, Matron, Canonist. Lackey connects, Matron>Piledriver, but He counters it. Had Caverns in hand, but wanted to protect Canonist. Draw Thalia, cast it and a Vial, and Port him. Draw CotV, play@1 while having Vial@2. Pretty much locked here.
Game 3: Mull into the same start, but He blocks my Lackey T3 with a Snapcaster. I get CotV@1, and have Piledriver and Matron hitting, with Port out. He has the combo, but has to bounce CotV. In his 6th turn (lost a land drop on the 4th) I did not Port him. He had 5 lands now. Used 2 to bounce CotV, then used 1 to cast High Tide. I responded Porting an Island. He could only produce 3 mana, and needed 4 to go off. Had I ported him on his upkeep, I’d have lost.
Kill him on the comeback.
1-0

Match 2: DnT
Game 1: Win the roll, Lackey gets to connect twice.
In: 2 Wear/Tear, 1 O.Ring, 1 Tuktuk, 1 Shooter. Out: 4 Lackey, 1 Piledriver
Game 2: I kill a T1 Mom but He has another, followed by 2 Mirrand Crusader. I Matroned, and had Ringleader in my hand only, and made the terrible choice of searching for Sharpshooter. He casts and equips Sword U/R and I die.
In: 2 Wear/Tear, 1 Tuktuk, 1 Shooter. Out: 2 MWM, 1 Angel, 1 Piledriver
Game 3: We both have Vial, but I Wear/Tear his (card is awesome!). The 2/1 flash dude almost catches me of guard, but I find a Mountain on the top 4 cards. When Vial reached 4, I had Ringleader, 2x Angels and Krenko. Angels stopped his attacks and blinked Ringleader. It was more than enough. Finished the game with 7 cards on my hand.
2-0

Match 3: 12 Post
Game 1: Lackey into Matron>Piledriver. He has Needle @Waste, then @Vial, then Crop Rotations into Chasm. Chasm takes him to 12, until He sacs it, and plays Kolziek. I had some onther goblins on the table, play Stingscourger, and win.
In: 1 Tuktuk, 2 Wear/Tear, 1 Shooter, 1 O.Ring, 2 CotV. Out: 3 Tarfire, 3 Gempalm, 1 Angel.
Game 2: Needle @Port and @Waste. I have Lackey. He bounces it. I play it again. He plays Tabernacle. I pay, swing, and Matron>Piledriver. He plays Elephant Grass. I pay for my 3 dudes, play Plateau and Wear/Tear the Elephant Grass. Hit and drop Tuktuk, bringing him to 11. He had SnT, but not the mana to cast it, and I steal this one too. (MY GOD, Wear/Tear is AWESOME!)
3-0

Match 4: UW Stoneblade
Game 1: He leads with Stoneforge. I Tarfire it, then Port him. T4 he plays Geist. I Don’t port him and pass with 4 mana open. He doesn’t swing (Angel Power!), tap all lands and play Batterskull. I play Angel eot, untap, play Cavern and Kiki-Jiki and COMBO HIM OUT! Yeah! The deck is SICK!
In: 1 Tuktuk, 2 Wear/Tear, 2 Liege. Out: 3 MWM, 1 Angel, 1 Piledriver.
Game 2: I mull and have Vial. He gets Stoneforge into Batter, but is stuck with 2 lands. I get Tuktuk his Batter. From there Ringleader draw some dudes, Angel draw some dudes, and it’s over.
4-0

Hell yeah! Restoration Angel is AWESOME! Next Time I play him though Will probably trim it down to 2, and maybe add a 24th land (Port). The curve was significntly increased here (9 4drops and 1 5drop MD).

Also, hereby I purpose a challenge. I want people to suggest an awesome list tat you haven’t have the time to test, for me to try out this Wednesday. Monored, or any combination of b, g or w (don’t have Volcanics). If it sounds great I’ll play it.
Cheers.

[GoboLord]

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/lw/267.jpg
Hey there fellow Chieftains,

today it was tournament time again. I finished 2nd after 5 rounds with a solid 4-1 (again). I played Rb WINstigator Goblins (again) and performed some minor tweaks to my list.

MANA (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Chrome Mox

CORE (23)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader

OTHERS (15)
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weiridng
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Sideboard (15)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Earwig Squad
3 Perish

The changes to my prior list were this:
MD: +1 Chrome Mox, -1 Scalding Tarn
MD: +1 Tuktuk Scrapper, -1 Krenko
MD: +1 Warren Weirding, -1 Tarfire
SB: +1 Chalice of the Void, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Round 1 BYE
I cheer a friend playing Merfolk in the parallel Modern event.

1-0

Round 2 Christian with Spanish Inquisition
G1: I knew he was on Spanish Inquisition (for those of you who don’t know the deck: it’s a BG Turn-1-Glasscannon Combo Deck, similar to Rg Belcher, just half a turn faster). I pondered if I should concede G1 without showing him any card, since I would likely lose anyway. I decided to try it. He goes off Turn 2.

IN: 4 Chalice, 1 Chrome Mox, 3 Earwig Squad, 4 Cabal Therapy
OUT: 4 AEther Vial, 5 Spotremoval, 3 Ringleader

G2: I knew I had to take mulligan to Chalice of the Void OR to Turn 1 Cabal Therapy. SO there we go.
Draw 7: Turn 1 Lackey, no hatecards. Mulligan.
Draw 6: No lands, no Chalice. Bye-bye.
Draw 5: T1 Lackey again, but no hatecards. Mulligan
Draw 4: 3 Lands, 1 Matron. Nope.
Draw 3: Nope.
Draw 2: Nope.
Draw 1: Auntie’s Hovel.
Well, what can I say? I won this game. Like…honestly, I won this game with a fucking mulligan to 1. I would REALLY love to tell you that my overwhelming Jedi-Force or some insanely well played card won me this. But that was not the case. I drew Cabal Therapy, Warren Instigator, Chieftain, Lackey and some lands. That’s the whole story. Cabal Therapy. Flashbacked with Lackey. True story.

G3: my hand was like this:
Goblin Lackey,
2x Warren Instigator
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Lands.

The game went like this:
Christian: *plays Lotus Petal* *plays Dark Ritual* “Well, since I go first and you don’t have any counters I just pull off my combo here, ok?”
Me: “Well, you can do that as long as you ask me to respond after you cast your third spell.”
Christian: “Hum. So you got a Mindbreak Trap.” *casts Cabal Therapy naming MBT* *play Dark Ritual* *plays Cruel Bargain to draw 4 and go to 10* *plays Chrome Mox* *plays Mox Opal*. “Go.”
Well, I beat him on turn 3, which was an easy task as he had only 10 life left.
Needless to say I was a little confused after this Round.

2-0

Round 3 Alex with UWR Patriot
G1: Lackey out of a Caverns connects into Warchief + Chieftain on turn 2, followed by a Ringleader on turn 3. Alex scoops.

IN: 4 Chalice of the Void
OUT: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Warchief, 1 Krenko

G2: Delver on turn 1, Bolt for my Lackey on turn 2. Wasteland + Daze delay me long enough for Delver and True Name Nemesis to fish me off.

G3: I start with Mountain, Chrome Mox, Chalice @ 1. GG!

3-0

Round 4Markus with Punishing Maverick
G1: Markus has pretty strong raw with Death Rite Shaman, Mother of Runes, Grove of Burnwillows, Punishing Fire AND Life from the Loam (for recurring Groves). On turn 2 I attacked with Lackey and Chieftain into an untapped Deathrite Shaman, while markus had 2 lands untapped. I knew I could be screwed pretty badly by Punishing Fire (@Chieftain) there, but I think it was correct to take the risk. Well, Markus had Punishing Fire, which pretty much ended the game for me.
I’d like hear some reactions on that situation!

IN: 3 Perish, 1 Chrome Mox
OUT: 4 Aether Vial

G2: I kept a pretty strong hand with T1 Lackey and lots of stuff to put into play. Markus screwed up my plans with another Deathrite Shaman, followed by Mother of Runes, 2 Punishing Fires, Wasteland and Ajani Vengeant. This, plus not drawing a third manasource pretty much sealed the deal.

3-1

Round 5 Marcel with BG something
G1 he quickly collapses under the pressure of Warren Instigator and Goblin Chieftain.

IN: 3 Earwig Squad, 1 Chrome Mox
OUT: 4 Aether Vial

G2: I keep a risky hand with 4 lands, 1 Lackey and 1 Earwig Squad. His Thoughtseize on T1 sets me back...just a little. Eventually I happen to draw 4 cards out of my Goblin Ringleader and finishing his Liliana. He appears to stabilize with Toxic Deluge, but by that point I have enough Chieftains, Piledrivers and Ringleader in my sandbag to easily build up a lethal board position.

4-1

Thoughts:
* I’m positive that 68/75 cards are just right in the decklist. The spots that I’m sure about are those:

”SETTLED” (56)
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Chrome Mox
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weiridng

OPEN SLOTS (4)
X Chrome Mox
X Scalding Tarn
X Tuktuk Scrapper
X Krenko Mob Boss
X Tarfire

Sideboard (15)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Perish
3 OPEN SLOTS

I don’t think that my choices for today were bad. They were “okay” - I’m just not sure if they are the best thing I can do with the list. How would you fill those 4 MD and 3 SB slots?

* MVPs were Chieftain and Goblin Ringleader again
* Warren Weirding good
* Krenko was not needed and not wanted
* Chrome Mox #3 was cool. There was NO point in the whole tournament where it would have been BAD to draw another Chrome Mox instead of another land.
* Tuktuk was not needed either, except for Round 3 where I mistakenly boarded him out (luckily I didn’t get punished for that)
* Earwig Squads were not match-winning, but they were not bad either. I still think this slot could be used better. But then again…it’s a freaking 5/3 body for 2B and I’m starting to believe that this is his actually value (stripping cards does not matter as much as I want it to)

Thank you for reading. Questions are, as always, appreciated.


@ ScatmanX: My suggestion would be the list above. Feel free to design the 7 open slots according to your wishes.

[Holly]

On turn 2 I attacked with Piledriver and Chieftain into an untapped Deathrite Shaman, while markus had 2 lands untapped. I knew I could be screwed pretty badly by Punishing Fire (@Chieftain) there, but I think it was correct to take the risk. Well, Markus had Punishing Fire, which pretty much ended the game for me.

Well what did you risk? Even if he kills Chieftain with the Piledriver trigger on the stack he can't kill your Piledriver by blocking.. and if you hadn't attacked he still could've killed your Chieftain end of turn so did I miss something/did you forget something?

[GoboLord]

Well what did you risk? Even if he kills Chieftain with the Piledriver trigger on the stack he can't kill your Piledriver by blocking.. and if you hadn't attacked he still could've killed your Chieftain end of turn so did I miss something/did you forget something?

I'm sorry it was LACKEY and Chieftain there. I edited the original post.
So, yeah, I had something to lose there (and something relevant to put into play. Don't remember what it was though)

[Holly]

I'm sorry it was LACKEY and Chieftain there. I edited the original post.
So, yeah, I had something to lose there (and something relevant to put into play. Don't remember what it was though)

Ah okay that makes sense.. well I would still probably go for it, chances are that your Lackey won't do anything this game anymore if he untaps with 3/4 mana anyway although he does have a lot of outs between Fire/Decay and him not casting anything with 3 mana is suspicious.

[Shawon]

Anyone watching Jim Davis vs. Ben Feingerish on SCGProv right now?

Game 2, I think he should have attacked with the Prospector, and if Ben blocked with DRS, he could have then cast Pyrokinesis to remove all of Ben's creatures, nullifying Ben's Cradle. Thoughts?

EDIT: Jim just lost. Ben recovered and cast NO-> Pro in two turns. I think leaving that Visionary alive saved Ben since it let him operate Cradle. It was downhill for Jim anyway, but I think Jim could've lasted a lot longer.

[Yio]

Hello everyone, Rg Classic player here (want to splash w too). I've been following this thread for some time, and decided to make an account.

I have questions regarding two cards.
First of all, is the split second-ability of Krosan Grip important enough in the current metagame to be played? I haven't seen it in any list, but I thought it might be useful against Jitte, Batter and Top. Is Wear//Tear significantly better? Does anyone have experience with Krosan Grip?

Second of all, how good is Lightning Crafter? Almost same story as KGrip. Is he playable in combination with enough Warchiefs/Chieftains?

[superspaceshooter]

ScatmanX: I played Restoration Angel Goblins at the last SCG: Open I played, going 5-4, losing to burn twice, Tin Fins, and BUG (barely). I had 24 land and 2 Angel as per your update. The reason I liked Angel was not only for the combo kill (blink Matron, grab Kiki, etc), but the fact that the Angel's body is actually perfect in Legacy, especially in poor matchups. Against decks like Jund or BUG, it dodges common removal spells such as Punishing Fire, Lightning Bolt, Abrupt Decay, and even Engineered Plague. I had no issues with the Angel itself other than having to play white mana. I didn't really draw it throughout the tournament other than my last round loss to BUG where in game 3 it almost pulled me back into the game against a Chill.

You wanted decklists to test, so here was one I was pondering for awhile if it "peaks" your interest (no foreshadowing to Teetering Peaks or Peak Eruption :P):

Mirror-Entity Goblins
---------------------

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Mirror Entity
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Siege-Gang Commander
---32 Goblins---


4 AEther Vial
---4 Non-Goblins---


4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishidan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Plateau
4 Mountain
---24 Land---


3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wear // Tear
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Boartusk Liege
---15 Sideboard Cards---


Essentially, the maindeck is built as your typical fair value-driven Goblin deck with a minor token theme. What separates us from other similar builds is the power of Mirror Entity, which is a splashy but on theme (it's a Goblin!) card that does the following for the deck:

1) With enough mana we can vial it in and either protect our creatures from Lightning Bolt or kill them out of nowhere. This part is obvious.

2) It can turn our non-Goblin creatures into Goblins to favor cards like Gempalm Incinerator, Goblin Piledriver, and Krenko, Mob Boss. At the moment I didn't include maindeck Thalia but it would do this in Game 1's if you did.

3) My favorite: With just a single Tuktuk Scrapper in the deck, you can only take out one of the 2 heralded equipment from a Stoneforge deck. But with the power of Mirror Entity's changeling ability, with a Scrapper already in play, you can take out the second one! What's more: If you pay a mana with the ability on the stack, it will deal damage to the opponent equal to the number of total creatures you have in play since it turns all of them into Allies. This can possibly give you a win against a Moat if the circumstances are perfect, or help kill a Jace, but it's super sweet.

Mirror Entity is about the only thing exciting about the deck, but I thought it might be worth trying out!

[Avatara]

Mirror Entity is about the only thing exciting about the deck, but I thought it might be worth trying out!
Mirror Entity has already been tested by several people and it was found to be underwhelming, if I remember correctly.

[goblinsplayer]

Went 5-4 into nothing at scg providence. Started 4-0 then it went downhill.I don't think I could have controlled how it all went down. My last round opponent was a total dick. Will post list and report later.

[jrw1985]

Went 5-4 into nothing at scg providence. Started 4-0 then it went downhill.I don't think I could have controlled how it all went down. My last round opponent was a total dick. Will post list and report later.

Bummer, dude. Sorry to hear it.

[goblinsplayer]

Bummer, dude. Sorry to hear it.

It's fine. I don't mind losing anyways. The worst thing is that my last round opponent was a douche. Had lots of fun though. I'm glad I had gone 4-0 and I will leave it at that. Thanks though.

[GoboLord]

Sorry for being so persitent, but I'd like some reaction those parts.




Round 2 Christian with Spanish Inquisition
G2: I knew I had to take mulligan to Chalice of the Void OR to Turn 1 Cabal Therapy. SO there we go.
Draw 7: Turn 1 Lackey, no hatecards. Mulligan.
Draw 6: No lands, no Chalice. Bye-bye.
Draw 5: T1 Lackey again, but no hatecards. Mulligan
Draw 4: 3 Lands, 1 Matron. Nope.
Draw 3: Nope.
Draw 2: Nope.
Draw 1: Auntie’s Hovel.
Well, what can I say? I won this game. Like…honestly, I won this game with a fucking mulligan to 1. I would REALLY love to tell you that my overwhelming Jedi-Force or some insanely well played card won me this. But that was not the case. I drew Cabal Therapy, Warren Instigator, Chieftain, Lackey and some lands. That’s the whole story. Cabal Therapy. Flashbacked with Lackey. True story.




Round 4Markus with Punishing Maverick
G1: Markus has pretty strong raw with Death Rite Shaman, Mother of Runes, Grove of Burnwillows, Punishing Fire AND Life from the Loam (for recurring Groves). On turn 2 I attacked with Lackey and Chieftain into an untapped Deathrite Shaman, while markus had 2 lands untapped. I knew I could be screwed pretty badly by Punishing Fire (@Chieftain) there, but I think it was correct to take the risk. Well, Markus had Punishing Fire, which pretty much ended the game for me.
I’d like hear some reactions on that situation!



Thoughts:
* I’m positive that 68/75 cards are just right in the decklist. The spots that I’m sure about are those:

”SETTLED” (56)
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Chrome Mox
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weiridng

OPEN SLOTS (4)
X Chrome Mox
X Scalding Tarn
X Tuktuk Scrapper
X Krenko Mob Boss
X Tarfire

Sideboard (15)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Perish
3 OPEN SLOTS

How would you fill those 4 MD and 3 SB slots?

[ScatmanX]

Round 2 Christian with Spanish Inquisition
G2: I knew I had to take mulligan to Chalice of the Void OR to Turn 1 Cabal Therapy. SO there we go.
Draw 7: Turn 1 Lackey, no hatecards. Mulligan.
Draw 6: No lands, no Chalice. Bye-bye.
Draw 5: T1 Lackey again, but no hatecards. Mulligan
I'd stop around here. Haven't played against SI, but against Belcher/other combo, I'd stop here. Just topdeck something sweet, and try to kill them by T4.


Round 4Markus with Punishing Maverick
G1: Markus has pretty strong raw with Death Rite Shaman, Mother of Runes, Grove of Burnwillows, Punishing Fire AND Life from the Loam (for recurring Groves). On turn 2 I attacked with Lackey and Chieftain into an untapped Deathrite Shaman, while markus had 2 lands untapped. I knew I could be screwed pretty badly by Punishing Fire (@Chieftain) there, but I think it was correct to take the risk. Well, Markus had Punishing Fire, which pretty much ended the game for me.
I’d like hear some reactions on that situation!
Attacking is probably right. What do you acomplish by not attacking? Save a Lackey (he'd kill Chieftain either way)? Would that have helped you that much to win the game? Now, what if he doesn't have it? Well, then you put yourself in a very good position to finish the game.


houghts:
* I’m positive that 68/75 cards are just right in the decklist. The spots that I’m sure about are those:
Tested that list a lot yeasterday against Canadian, pre and post sb, with +1Mox, +1 Tarfire, +1Weirdings, +1Kiki, +1 Scrapper, -1Piledriver. SB Had 3 Squads.
Gotta say, was really disapointed there. Mox make splashing really hard. The mana doesn't work as well as Rg or Rw, because you want to cast multiple B spells during games, and fighting Stifle + Wasteland was really, really tough. And that's unfortunate, because Instigator + Weirdings sound really sweet...

[GoboLord]

Tested that list a lot yeasterday against Canadian, pre and post sb, with +1Mox, +1 Tarfire, +1Weirdings, +1Kiki, +1 Scrapper, -1Piledriver. SB Had 3 Squads.
Gotta say, was really disapointed there. Mox make splashing really hard. The mana doesn't work as well as Rg or Rw, because you want to cast multiple B spells during games, and fighting Stifle + Wasteland was really, really tough. And that's unfortunate, because Instigator + Weirdings sound really sweet...

Thanks for the reply. I have a few questions.

(1) What exactly did you bring in/out against Canadian?
(2) What exactly where you dissapointed about?
(3) Fighting through Stifle should not be tough if you are talking about the manafixing. I'd play 0 fetchlands if I had the ful playset of Badlands. What exactly was your issue with the manafixing there?
(4) In don't quite get that sentence: "The mana doesn't work as well as Rg or Rw, because you want to cast multiple B spells during games," Would you like to explain yourself?

[ScatmanX]

Thanks for the reply. I have a few questions.

(1) What exactly did you bring in/out against Canadian?
(2) What exactly where you dissapointed about?
(3) Fighting through Stifle should not be tough if you are talking about the manafixing. I'd play 0 fetchlands if I had the ful playset of Badlands. What exactly was your issue with the manafixing there?
(4) In don't quite get that sentence: "The mana doesn't work as well as Rg or Rw, because you want to cast multiple B spells during games," Would you like to explain yourself?
°+3 Perish, +3 Squad, +1M<ox, -1 Tuktuk, -1 Kiki,-1 Piledriver -4 Instigator. Now that you've asked, maybe CotV can be really good along with Mox...
° Was disapointed about not winning.Guess SB plan was not optimal.
°I wouldn't. At least around here, since there is much more Wasteland than Stifle, and searching for basics the first 2-3 turns can make the game way easier for you. It's not that Stifle doesn't hit anything else from us... (in that sense, Mox Version might be better against Stifle than others. Well, imprinting a B card on Mox was an issue in more than a game too...)
°My W splash is only for combo (no Waste) and Wear/Tear, which you usually only cast 1 per game (same with Angel), then it is ok getting your W source Wasted. You don't need it that much anymore. On the B splash, I had Weirding, Squad AND Perish, so I wanted B fairly the whole game, otherwise could topdeck an uncastable card. Granted, you play of playing 8 duals might help mitigate this problem, but I don't like that concept that much.
Hope it helped clear out my ponters, either we agree this time or not.

Anyhow, how do you SB against Canadian here? It change on the play or on the Draw?

[GoboLord]

°+3 Perish, +3 Squad, +1M<ox, -1 Tuktuk, -1 Kiki,-1 Piledriver -4 Instigator. Now that you've asked, maybe CotV can be really good along with Mox...
° Was disapointed about not winning.Guess SB plan was not optimal.
°I wouldn't. At least around here, since there is much more Wasteland than Stifle, and searching for basics the first 2-3 turns can make the game way easier for you. It's not that Stifle doesn't hit anything else from us... (in that sense, Mox Version might be better against Stifle than others. Well, imprinting a B card on Mox was an issue in more than a game too...)
°My W splash is only for combo (no Waste) and Wear/Tear, which you usually only cast 1 per game (same with Angel), then it is ok getting your W source Wasted. You don't need it that much anymore. On the B splash, I had Weirding, Squad AND Perish, so I wanted B fairly the whole game, otherwise could topdeck an uncastable card. Granted, you play of playing 8 duals might help mitigate this problem, but I don't like that concept that much.
Hope it helped clear out my ponters, either we agree this time or not.

Anyhow, how do you SB against Canadian here? It change on the play or on the Draw?

First of all thank you for making things clearer. I think I got you wrong on the mana-fixing thing.

My boarding plan vs. classic, RUG Canadian Thresh would be

+1 Chrome Mox, + 4 Chalice
-1 Stingscourger, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper, -1 Krenko, -2 Warchief

That would be my plan if I'm on the play.

If I'm on the draw and he plays a list with 8+ green creatures it would be

+3 Perish
-1 Stingscourger, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper, -1 Krenko

I don't think I would be boarding Chalice on the draw. AND I would not bring in Chalice AND Perish at the same time, for goblin-count issues. Plus, I'm not sure about whether to board out Warchief or Instigator in first scenario, probably one of each if I'm not sure. What I'm absolutely sure of is that we want to be the aggro-deck in this MU. And I'm also quite sure that whether you aqre on the play or on the draw matters a lot more in this MU than in most others. This deck (or rather this archetype) has always given me headaches.

[Sockosensei]

Round 2 Christian with Spanish Inquisition
G2: I knew I had to take mulligan to Chalice of the Void OR to Turn 1 Cabal Therapy. SO there we go.
Draw 7: Turn 1 Lackey, no hatecards. Mulligan.
Draw 6: No lands, no Chalice. Bye-bye.
Draw 5: T1 Lackey again, but no hatecards. Mulligan
I'd stop around here. Haven't played against SI, but against Belcher/other combo, I'd stop here. Just topdeck something sweet, and try to kill them by T4.

SI's chance of killing you on turn 1 if you don't interact is 30-60% depending on whether it's the quicker Pact build or the slower robot build (0/6 walls and Cabal Therapy), against which Lackey is unlikely to connect without assistance.
If you give them 1-2 more turns without interacting it's very very rough and even our beloved Lackey, SGC, Piledriver draw will likely be too slow. Mulling further for hate was probably the right move, though it reaches a point where you're better off relying on Jedi Mind Tricks:wink:

SI does occasionally self-destruct since it pays life to draw 16 cards. It can also mull to 4 and kill you on T1. As an SI player, I was embarrassed to hear the deck lost vs your mull to 1. The fact that your opponent went for it early on your mull to 1 vs no pressure tells me he was either overconfident, inexperienced, eager to have to match be over, or most likely, just joking around.

Last point, Belcher's usually the 3rd option for SI behind Tendrils and goblin tokens.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

@Gobolord


G2: I knew I had to take mulligan to Chalice of the Void OR to Turn 1 Cabal Therapy. SO there we go.
...
Draw 1: Auntie’s Hovel.

I think I'm in full support of what you did, that is the mulligan into oblivion. in a match up like Belcher or Spanish Inquisition very few cards in our 75 become relevant. I think it is of the utmost of importance to mulligan until you find the relevant cards and run with them.

This may be an Appeal to Coincidence (http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#coincidence), but I too have a memory of Mulling to 1, though against Belcher. He won the Die roll and based on his face he didn't like his keep, I took that to mean a turn 2 or 3 "Belch". I mulled until I found Chalice of the Void, drew a fetch on my first turn, and a mountain on my second, a Piledriver on my third. I won that game.



Round 4Markus with Punishing Maverick
G1: Markus has pretty strong raw with Death Rite Shaman, Mother of Runes, Grove of Burnwillows, Punishing Fire AND Life from the Loam (for recurring Groves). On turn 2 I attacked with Lackey and Chieftain into an untapped Deathrite Shaman, while markus had 2 lands untapped. I knew I could be screwed pretty badly by Punishing Fire (@Chieftain) there, but I think it was correct to take the risk. Well, Markus had Punishing Fire, which pretty much ended the game for me.

As for your attack into his Deathrite Shaman so long as you didn't read him having it I support this line. Be aggressive, and jam that attack. If he doesn't have it he is in a worse position than before. If he has it then you are losing Chieftain to burn anyway. Lackey is irrelevant at this point in the game. I'm not saying he can't work, just didn't appear to have much chance to continue being relevant.



Thoughts:
* I’m positive that 68/75 cards are just right in the decklist. The spots that I’m sure about are those:
...
OPEN SLOTS (4)
X Chrome Mox
X Scalding Tarn
X Tuktuk Scrapper
X Krenko Mob Boss
X Tarfire

Your missing main board slots for me would look a bit like the following for me.
1 Fetch
1 Tarfire
2 Rakdos Charm

It may be simply because I love Rakdos Charm or simply because I love Shatter, there is something about main board grave and artifact hate that I love. I also enjoy the option of turn 2 hitting with Lackey, at End of Turn if need be.

Whenever I don't know what I want my spare sideboard slots to be I either add Pithing Needle or Mindbreak Trap. I'm never sad to see either in my board. It is just more insurance against the unknown and combo, the only two things to fear. If you do try out the Rakdos Charms be sure to run a Single Tuktuk scrapper sideboard.

Typos

[ScatmanX]

@Gobolord

I think I'm in full support of what you did, that is the mulligan into oblivion. in a match up like Belcher or Spanish Inquisition very few cards in our 75 become relevant. I think it is of the utmost of importance to mulligan until you find the relevant cards and run with them.

This may be an Appeal to Coincidence (http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#coincidence), but I too have a memory of Mulling to 1, though against Belcher. He won the Die roll and based on his face he didn't like his keep, I took that to mean a turn 2 or 3 "Belch". I mulled until I found Chalice of the Void, drew a fetch on my first turn, and a mountain on my second, a Piledriver on my third. I won that game.
Still don't think going to 1 is the right call. How many turns does a tipica mull to 1 takes to kill our opponent. What if we don't draw lands? What if we don't draw Lackey/Vial/Piledriver? We'd wait until we draw 3 lands to make our first attack? How many cards has the opponent drawn by then?
Stopping at a 5 card hand with a 4 turn clock is imo better than going to 1 and hoping to kill your opponent T9, if lucky. That's 5+ live draws you give him, so even if he faces disruption, he'd have way more time to build up again.
Another thing is that you also get to draw cards on your mull to 5. So get some topdeck skils!
All in all, Sockosensei was right. The opponent must've missplayed here. I too have mulliganed to 4 and beaten Belcher with Mindbreak Trap. The deal is that he was under no pressure what-so-ever, so he could've easily played 2 spells per turn, and Belched me on his T3. Guess I'm glad there are so many bad combo players out there afterall.

[mrblueduck]

Here is the decklist I am working on and testing for a local 1k and SCG Oakland with the intention of playing it at the SCG Invitational in Las Vegas:

1 Drops
4 Goblin Lackey
4 AEther Vial
2 Lightning Bolt

2 Drops
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Mogg War Marshal
3 Warren Instigator
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Gempalm Incinerator

3 Drops
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Blood Moon

4 Drops
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Goblin Ringleader

5 Drops
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Land
5 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
2 Plateau
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn


Side Board
SB: 1 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 Sudden Demise
SB: 1 Pyroblast (Pending, Could be anything)
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 1 Raging River
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Goblin Settler
SB: 1 Anarchy
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist

I would appreciate any feedbeck on the list. Thanks

[ScatmanX]

...SB: 1 Raging River...


I would appreciate any feedbeck on the list. Thanks
Hey,
don't have much to say about the list. Looks weird too me playing Thalia + Instigator, but might be good. I'd suggest only Tarfire over Bolt, and dropping Blood Moons, since they haven't really been playing well (at leats for me)

Raging River is a card that stands out on the list. Someone commented on it here a while back, but never got to my attention. Re-reading it tough, it sounds really cool. If the opponent has only 1 dude out, he would not be able to block, right? That sounds cool. Would probably like to test it as a 2-3 of. Probably replacing Blood Moons?
Tell us how it goes.

[superspaceshooter]

Mirror Entity has already been tested by several people and it was found to be underwhelming, if I remember correctly.

I wouldn't doubt it, but I did offer up valid reasons for its inclusion (and remember that I've also adjusted many of the slots to mold to its being in the deck, so it's not just the Mirror Entity that should be discussed.)

[GoboLord]

I wouldn't doubt it, but I did offer up valid reasons for its inclusion (and remember that I've also adjusted many of the slots to mold to its being in the deck, so it's not just the Mirror Entity that should be discussed.)

First of all: you call "adjusting slots"; I would call it a "regular" goblin decklist. While I can see that your reson to run cards as Tuktuk Scrapper in the MD is Mirror Entity, it is in fact quite common to have Tuktuk Scrapper in the MD for other reasons. So, to me it does not seem like your adjustments are "customized" to Mirror Entity.
Second, even if you ran decklist that was highly customized to take 100% advantage of MEntitiy, I still think that the card doesn't do enough for the deck, for several reasons. To make good use of it you should be dumping 3+ mana into it's activated ability and that is something you usually won't do more than once a game. If you like the pumping thing I'd suggest to run more Goblin Chieftains (or at least compare MEntity to Chieftain whenever you draw/tutor it during your testing sessions to see which card you like more).

[superspaceshooter]

First of all: you call "adjusting slots"; I would call it a "regular" goblin decklist. While I can see that your reson to run cards as Tuktuk Scrapper in the MD is Mirror Entity, it is in fact quite common to have Tuktuk Scrapper in the MD for other reasons. So, to me it does not seem like your adjustments are "customized" to Mirror Entity.
Second, even if you ran decklist that was highly customized to take 100% advantage of MEntitiy, I still think that the card doesn't do enough for the deck, for several reasons. To make good use of it you should be dumping 3+ mana into it's activated ability and that is something you usually won't do more than once a game. If you like the pumping thing I'd suggest to run more Goblin Chieftains (or at least compare MEntity to Chieftain whenever you draw/tutor it during your testing sessions to see which card you like more).

That's true. I actually forgot to include Chieftain in my list, as I was building it on the fly rather than tuning it for several days like I usually do.

It is a typically Goblin list, but again, there are other slots that I've altered because of Mirror Entity's presence, such as 4 Mogg-War Marshal and the 24th land.

I haven't tested this, just was offering it up for others to try. :)

[liamb]

SB: 1 Goblin Settler

I have to ask about this - in what matchaps you would like to side in goblin settler?

[andrebonotto]

IRT: On the early game, keeping Ringleaders in hand until one naturally draws more lands:



I've had the same thought, but I don't think it's valid. The chances of having X lands in your top 4 cards is the same as having X lands in cards 5-8. You may see the perfect distribution of lands go to the bottom and weep. But that doesn't mean you won't peel lands after the ringleader either.

It's different if you are looking for a particular land. If you need to top deck the last Cavern in the library that's four draws at sending it to the bottom.



(...)
This is accurate.

Okay, that makes sense.

I need to think better about these sort of things before posting my first thoughts about them, :laugh: .

[jrw1985]

Quick tourney report! Went 0-2 drop at my LGS big monthly. I was playing MonoRed Gobbos and could not have been less prepared for the field. I was gunning for midrange and the players were all packing combo.

The List

4 Vial
4 Lackey

1 Stingscourger
2 piledriver
3 MWM

2 Tarfire
3 Gempalm

2 Tuktuk Scrapper

4 Warchief
3 Chieftain

4 Matron
4 Ringleader
2 Krenko

2 Chrome Mox
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of souls
8 Mountain

SB
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Mindbreak Trap
3 Relic of rogenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Sudden Demise
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Blood Moon

Round 1 Big Red
G1 I lose the roll. He leads with Mountain, go. I have Vial and Lackey in hand, so I lead with Vial since I read him as being on Burn and figure I'll get further with T1 Vial then Lackey. Then he gets T2 Sneak Attack. Ah. T2 I tick up vial and play a 2nd land. T3 he kills me. G2 I sided in Chalice and MbT. I lead with Lackey and connected into Warchief and won shortly thereafter. G3 he goes T1 Crystal Veins, Lotus Petal > Seething Song > Sneak Attack + SSG >> Grisselbrand + Worldspine Wurm, gg. I haven't been t1'd in a long while, and never by a deck that wasn't killing with Storm. Wasn't even upset about that one.

R2 Painter Servant
G1 Again, I lose the roll. Again, my opponent leads with Mountain, go. huh. I have Lackey, Lackey, Matron, Matron, Gempalm, Cavern, and Chrome Mox. I draw a Port. I cast Lackey off Cavern, then decide if I'm up against Burn then having a 2nd Lackey will be of benefit T1. So I play the Mox, remove a Matron, then cast the 2nd Lackey. He can't handle all that Lackey pressure and loses shortly thereafter. G2 and G3 he just combos me out with Painter + Grindstone. I have no needles nor quick artifact removal to deal with it all. Blech.

Anywho, there were a bunch of combo decks at the LGS today. I really should have been rocking some Thalias and a Rw list. Wear // Tear would have been excellent. Karakas would have done work. I could have had a chance under those circumstances. Next time, I guess.

[goblinsplayer]

Rough. Anyways, if everyone was packing combo, the white splash would not have made too much of a difference. It's still a bad matchup. The combo decks you played do not really mind Thalia or anything in the white splash. Although wear//tear would have been good against painter.

[Sandro95]

Hello everyone! I went to a legacy tournament yesterday, with 42 players in total. Here's the list I played.

R/B Goblins

Lands:23
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Badlands
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills

Spells:37
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Goblin Piledriver
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tarfire
1 Warren Weirding
4 Gempalm Incinerator

Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Engineered Plague
1 Perish
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Extirpate
1 Shattering Spree

R1 Miracles with Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull
R2 Esper Stoneblade
R3 U/R Delver
R4 Shardless BUG
R5 Esper Stoneblade
R6 UWR Delver/Patriot

I went 3-3, losing to both Esper Stoneblade decks and the UWR Delver/Patriot deck.

G1 versus my R2 opponent I had managed to get my opponent down to 1 life when he dropped a Batterskull. I drew Vial>Vial>land>land and my opponent stabilized. A couple of turns later I drew a Matron and Vialed it in during my opponent's turn, found a SGC which was also vialed in (ticked up aether vial the same turn). A token blocked the germ and was catapulted by SGC, hitting a Vendilion Clique. I made an odd misplay this game, if you can call it that. As you know, caverns doesnt make Warren Weirding uncounterable. However, I played a WW to have my opponent sacrifice his germ, and my opponent asked "Did you use cavern to play that?". I think a question like that pretty clearly indicates that he thought it would make it uncounterable. Had I actually used the CoS I could have simply responded "yes" and my opponent likely wouldn't have cast FoW.

G3 versus my R4 opponent I manage to win by matroning for a Tarfire to the face. :)

My three losses this tournament was against Stoneforge Mystic decks. I realize that variance plays a part here, however, I do think I need a better plan against them. I'm considering adding a Taiga, enabling me to run two Tinstreet Hoologans mainboard and one or two Ancient Grudge sideboard. What is your plan against these decks? What do you board out, what would you bring in?

[ScatmanX]

My three losses this tournament was against Stoneforge Mystic decks. I realize that variance plays a part here, however, I do think I need a better plan against them. I'm considering adding a Taiga, enabling me to run two Tinstreet Hoologans mainboard and one or two Ancient Grudge sideboard. What is your plan against these decks? What do you board out, what would you bring in?
You know, Tuktuk Scrapper is a card. No need to splash G. If you have 1 MD, and 1 SB, you became very favorable against Stoneforge decks.
If it was your list, against them I'd take out 1 Piledriver and the Sharpshooter, then maybe the other Piledriver if you had something to bring in. In my list I bring in the 2nd Tuktuk, a Bortusk Liege and the Lightning Crafter (could bring in Needle too, 2 at most).

[Sandro95]

You know, Tuktuk Scrapper is a card. No need to splash G. If you have 1 MD, and 1 SB, you became very favorable against Stoneforge decks.
If it was your list, against them I'd take out 1 Piledriver and the Sharpshooter, then maybe the other Piledriver if you had something to bring in. In my list I bring in the 2nd Tuktuk, a Bortusk Liege and the Lightning Crafter (could bring in Needle too, 2 at most).

A second Scrapper sideboard seems like a good idea, I'll make sure to try that out.

Also: Upon reading this I realized I had forgotten to write Tuktuk Scrapper in my list (I play 1 maindeck), so I edited my post.

[jrw1985]

I found a few goblins videos on youtube today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4sQJnCgcdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe0SfqcYw0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMFBi2m9Zf8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIPgz15zrrk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3nZ4gZXnmM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSPAW0t5Pkc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZI7HZrqxaQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgYq4GcztlA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1fZdn6XmUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjAlCix6s-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_RRplaPigU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHVoe4nmKXQ

[prateta]

Awesome videos, he plays goblins very well. Watched them all, I loved how ho experimented with not-so-favorable initial hands and eventually ended up winning the almost lost games. I learned a lot from these videos, thank you :-) if you know some more videos like this, please post them here.

Sent from my Lenovo S920_ROW using Tapatalk

[lavafrogg]

Will goblins rise from the ashes again? With a strong card advantage suite, artifact removal, attackers that nemesis cannot block and can easily race, it seems like loading up on combo hate in the boards and then sleeving up could be an acceptable plan. The UWR decks could suck to lay against but what else can wreck the little green men?

[LeoCop 90]

I think, like lavafrog, that goblins is quite well positioned in true-name-nemesis metagame. To be honest, goblins is well positioned anytime the meta shifts heavily towards blue decks with counterspells.

In fact i think i'll play goblins on sunday in a local event (40-60 people expected), but i am unsure about some choices. I would like to play thalia main deck for the combo matchups, but this means shaving some piledrivers that i feel are good against nemesis. I would also like to play one shatter goblin main and one in sideboard, so the green splash for hooligan would be good, or i will have to play 2 tuktuk scrapper. Another question is wether to play tarfire or not, because i expect to see less deathrite shaman than usual, but i know tarfire is good also against mystic. So, in your opinion, wich cards are more important at the moment in the main deck ?

-goblin piledriver
-thalia
-shatter goblin
-tarfire

And, since i have little experience with tuk tuk scrapper, is viable to play one in main and one in sideboard, or is it too clunky? (i am always unhappy playing a 4 mana cost shatter goblin).

Last question: is piledriver really good against true name nemesis? Ok, he can't be blocked by nemesis, but since i had no opportunity to test i don't know if this really makes the difference.

[ScatmanX]

And, since i have little experience with tuk tuk scrapper, is viable to play one in main and one in sideboard, or is it too clunky? (i am always unhappy playing a 4 mana cost shatter goblin).

Last question: is piledriver really good against true name nemesis? Ok, he can't be blocked by nemesis, but since i had no opportunity to test i don't know if this really makes the difference.
1 - 2 Tuktuks is not clunky. You really want them against Stoneforge, specially now that people are running UR Sword and TNN. The bad part is playing 1 MD, but imo it is too good when is good, that overgheits when it's bad.
2 - Piledriver is really good against TNN. Still, Krenko is better. 1 Piledriver has been searving me well in my last tournaments.

[raikenxy]

Last question: is piledriver really good against true name nemesis? Ok, he can't be blocked by nemesis, but since i had no opportunity to test i don't know if this really makes the difference.

haveing just built the deck, i was doing a lot of testing with my friend last weekend on playing this exact scenario. My friend rotated between esper stoneblade and br delver. honetly the only time nemesis makes much of a difference is if you have not developed a board state that can overwhelm them. the second you start swarming with goblins jitte and nemesis is just to slow. every game i won was on the back of an alpha strike with piledriver. there was on game where he was about stablize where i had one piledriver on board and me and him both agreed the only way i won was if i top decked either a piledriver or a mogg war marshal so i could attack for lethal. thanks to the redundancy of the deck i top decked a piledriver lol... these were all preoboard games and i wasn't running either scrapper or tin street hooligan.

[lavafrogg]

I think, like lavafrog, that goblins is quite well positioned in true-name-nemesis metagame. To be honest, goblins is well positioned anytime the meta shifts heavily towards blue decks with counterspells.

In fact i think i'll play goblins on sunday in a local event (40-60 people expected), but i am unsure about some choices. I would like to play thalia main deck for the combo matchups, but this means shaving some piledrivers that i feel are good against nemesis. I would also like to play one shatter goblin main and one in sideboard, so the green splash for hooligan would be good, or i will have to play 2 tuktuk scrapper. Another question is wether to play tarfire or not, because i expect to see less deathrite shaman than usual, but i know tarfire is good also against mystic. So, in your opinion, wich cards are more important at the moment in the main deck ?

-goblin piledriver
-thalia
-shatter goblin
-tarfire

And, since i have little experience with tuk tuk scrapper, is viable to play one in main and one in sideboard, or is it too clunky? (i am always unhappy playing a 4 mana cost shatter goblin).

Last question: is piledriver really good against true name nemesis? Ok, he can't be blocked by nemesis, but since i had no opportunity to test i don't know if this really makes the difference.

I think if you have the tuk tuk for the equipment I don't think that nemesis does anything that isn't combo is that hard of a matchup. Miracles could be fin but vial and ringleader should just out draw and kill them. I am looking at lists without piledrivers and more chieftains/seige-gangs currently.

[Humphrey]

I found a few goblins videos on youtube today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4sQJnCgcdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe0SfqcYw0E


Stopped watching after he chumps with Piledriver instead of Ringleader when he has the next turn win on his hand.

[jrw1985]

Stopped watching after he chumps with Piledriver instead of Ringleader when he has the next turn win on his hand.

Yeah, not a very next-level play.

[Avatara]

Yeah, not a very next-level play.

Yet he wins (almost) every match without Cavern of Souls

[Sandro95]

Hi, I made second place in today's local legacy tournament (11 players).

R1 Dark Maverick 2-0

G1 my opponent got mom online, and then a SoFI on a Dryad Arbor. I managed to turn the game around by attacking with a token, and in response to mom activating to protect itself and block I tarfired it. Then I played a WW to get rid of his Dryad Arbor. I think I may have gotten a Krenko into play.
G2 I kept a slow vial hand and turned the game around with a Perish. I also managed to keep my opponent of Natural Order mana.

R2 Elves 0-2

G1 Elves Overwhelm me.
G2 I keep a 7 with two wastelands as my only mana sources, a Perish and an Engineered Plague (both one-ofs). I don't draw any colored mana sources.

R3 Miracles 2-0

G1 I play fairly conservatively/patiently and my opponent doesn't make many land drops (for a miracles deck). I win by going Matron > Chieftain, attack > Tarfire when my opponent was on 5. Earlier this game my opponent made 2 angels. I gempalmed one and got the other one with WW.
G2 I get to a point where my opponent is at 16. I play a Matron for Skirk Prospector, attack with the team, putting my opponent on 3. I put the Skirk prospector into play with lackey, sacrifice some goblins to play a Siege-Gang Commander, then fling goblins some at my opponent.

R4 Death and Taxes 2-1

G1 My opponent is on the play.
O: Port>Vial
Me: Fetch, mountain, Lackey.
O: Thalia
Me: Gempalm, swing, put in Krenko. My opponent draws and scoops.

G2 mom gets online and I can't do much about it. She's soon joined but a couple of fliers too.

G3 I draw a lot of removal and manage to grind my opponent out with Vial, Gempalm, Ringleader and Krenko, while taking care of his Stoneforge Mystics, Serra Avenger and Mirran Crusadet with my removal, and porting my opponent's mana. Turns out my opponent had a cataclysm in hand which would have been pretty good against me.

[jimmythegreek]

With "combo-esque" decks getting most of the attention what are the odds wizards un-bans Goblin Recruiter? If legacy continues to progress it seems that" combo-goblins" isn't too far fetched.

[End3r000]

The chances of Recruiter being unbanned any time soon is slim to none. They're already worried about unleashing a mistake on the Legacy metagame, why would they unleash another?

[jimmythegreek]

The chances of Recruiter being unbanned any time soon is slim to none. They're already worried about unleashing a mistake on the Legacy metagame, why would they unleash another?

Do you really think wizards considers eternal formats during r/d? Wizards created tnn with the intention of it being played in a multi-play er format. Wizards covered both angles by giving eternal players a new toy and casual players much the same. When eternal players complain wizards can say it was created with focus of commander, if people applaud tnn then wizards makes everyone happy.

[prateta]

With "combo-esque" decks getting most of the attention what are the odds wizards un-bans Goblin Recruiter? If legacy continues to progress it seems that" combo-goblins" isn't too far fetched.

Interesting idea, given that Goblin Recruiter is now very cheap, it might be a good move to get a playset. It's like $5 investment (whole playset) in my country, and if he gets unbanned his price might get a lot higher. Thinking about this gives me shiver, glorious return of Goblin Recruiter, let there be goblin domination! :-D (Exterminate, exterminate! *Dalek voice*)

But... I'd like to ask you, I've had some problems against Nic Fit lately. Lost few games at some tourneys, cockatrice testing against this deck haven't gone so well also. Do any of you have some usefull tips & tricks when playing against Nic Fit? The best tactics I've invented so far is: Side in 4x RIP, 3x Pyro, activate Krenko ASAP. Krenko is the boss who always won me the game against nic fit, because his swarms can effectively fight their titans, thruns and basically whatever they play. RIP solves Punishing Fire issue, Cabal Therapy and Goyfs. Cheers!

[OlegtheSuper]

Goblin Recruiter will never be unbanned. He is too slow for MtG. Need a lot of time to choose goblins and place them right(too many variations).

4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tarfire\Mogg War Marshal\Stingscourger

4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Plateau
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills

SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2 Confusion in the Ranks
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap

i'm going to play in Moscow TopDeck Opet in next saturday. Hope it will be ~100 people.

I want you friends to help me in sbin\out plans.
Classic Shardless BUG with no TNN

If i win first i SB in:
+3 relic
+3 pyro
-4 lackey
-2 mogg
P.S: i dont want to sbin krosan grip in second game if i win first because dont want dead cards if there is no plague.

If i lose first
+2 relic
+2 pyro
+2 wear
-4 lackey
-2 mwm

game after lose and i know that there are only plugeus.
+2 pyro
+2 wear
+2 relic
-2 mwm
-1 skirk
-1 lackey
-1 tin street hooligan
-1 sgc

Game after loose and i know that there are only jittes
+3 pyro
+2 relic
-1 lackey
-2 mwm
-1 shooter
-1 warchief

OR

+3 relic
+3 Thalia
-1 Lackey
-2 MWM
-1 Warchief
-1 skirk
-1 dont know what more


Game after lose and i know that there are plagues and jittes
+3 relic
+2 wear
-1 shooter
-2 mwm
-1 warchief
-1 SGC

Game after win and i know that there are only plagues
+2 wear
+3 relic
+2 pyro
-4 lackey
-2 mwm
-1 skirk

Game after win and i know that there are only jittes
+3 pyro
+3 relic
-4 lackey
-2 mwm

Game after win and i know that there are plagues and jittes
+2 wear
+2 relic
+3 pyro
-4 lackey
-2 mwm
-1 skirk
-1 SGC

I think that SCG is bad when there are plagues and you have to wait wear.
not sure about thalia vs BUG.
What do you think about it

[chemfy]

Stopped watching after he chumps with Piledriver instead of Ringleader when he has the next turn win on his hand.

Thanks for pointing this out, was in full defensive mode and him at so high life didn't even consider profitable attacks. Also since I was in full defensive mind set I would rather have a 2/2 than 1/2 and that is why I chumped with piledriver.

And yeah, my videos aren't for those who want high quality play.

[ScatmanX]

4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tarfire\Mogg War Marshal\Stingscourger

4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Plateau
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills

SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2 Confusion in the Ranks
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
Gonna give my 2cents (SB plans agains Shardless BUG, no TNN)
SB on the Draw with no info on his deck:
+3 Relic, +2 Kinesis, +1 Wear/Tear
-4 Lackey, -1 TSH, -1 Piledriver

SB on the Play with no info on his deck:
+3 Relic, +2 Wear/Tear
-2 TSH, -1 Prospector, -1 Piledriver, -1 Sharpshooter

Taking MWM feels wrong when fighting against a deck that has Goyfs and Lilianas. Lackey on the play you can keep it in. Despite running 0-1 Tarfires yourself, your opponent usually only has 4 Shamans, and maybe 2 or 3 T1 answers for it. No reason not to try and win with it. Also, I think that on the play you'll be able to assemble a board position easier, so the Kinesis is not that important, and you bring Wear/Tear in case of hate. Last case scenario it kills Strix or Agent.

On the Play. They have Plague:
+2 Wear/Tear, +2 Relic, +X Kinesis
-1 Prospector, -2 TSH, -1 Shooter, -X MWM

On the Draw. They have Plague:
+2 Wear/Tear, +3 Relic, +3 Kinesis
-4 Lackey, -1 Prospector, -1 Shooter, -2 TSH

MWM gets worse here, but on the draw you have to assemble some board position and hope they simply don't have it. TSH and Prospector get worse. Shooter too, and might be too slow. SGC may still help you kill them faster then they can get Plague out. Keep'em in.

On the Play. They have Jitte:
+3 Kinesis
-1 Shooter, -2 Piledrivers

On the Draw. They have Jitte:
+3 Kinesis, +2 Relic
-4 Lackey, -1 Piledriver

Jitte is easily handled with 2 TSH, 1 Prospector and Shooter. No need for Wear/Tear here. Just kill them. Still, Piledriver is just ok still. Swarming seems the best option. No need to waste time durdling with Relic.

On the Play. They have everything:
+2 Wear/Tear, +2 Kinesis
-1 TSH, -1 Shooter, -1 Piledriver, -1 MWM

On the Draw. They have everything:
+2 Wear/Tear, +3 Kinesis
-4 Lackey, -1 Shooter

On the Play I just trim where I can. Maybe cutting TSH is bad, since there are lots of targets, so maybe taking out Sting could be ok.
Actually, coming to thing about it, I'd always take ot Sting on the Draw. No Lackeys to force trough, and the only creature you really want to bounce is Goyf, and even that is not that awesome, since Relic is better on the Draw (it is actually better on the play, but you have more powerfull stuff to do there).

Having written all this, Shardless BUG is a tricky deck to side against, and the guide is usefull merely to discover what is good and bad against them. Don't follow it strictly. For all I know, Thalia might be great against them, dodging Plague and holding off Jitte on some dudes. Haven't tested her here, but don't want to take out too many goblins.

[jrw1985]

Thanks for pointing this out, was in full defensive mode and him at so high life didn't even consider profitable attacks. Also since I was in full defensive mind set I would rather have a 2/2 than 1/2 and that is why I chumped with piledriver.

And yeah, my videos aren't for those who want high quality play.

Thanks for posting regardless! I always enjoy watching folks play goblins (unless they are cringe-inducing, like that guy that played Goblins on camera against Gerry Thompson's Hypergenesis deck who didn't bother to read Hypergenesis so he didn't put anything in play while Gerry dumped his hand. For fuck's sake).

[Barbed Blightning]

Lol really? Damn.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[jrw1985]

Two games in a row! At first I was all "Yeah! Goblins!" Then I was all "Oh God Dammit!"

[OlegtheSuper]

ScatmanX, thank you very much!= Большое спасибо!

[LeoCop 90]

Thanks for pointing this out, was in full defensive mode and him at so high life didn't even consider profitable attacks. Also since I was in full defensive mind set I would rather have a 2/2 than 1/2 and that is why I chumped with piledriver.

And yeah, my videos aren't for those who want high quality play.

i watched all the vids and i thought you play goblins quite well. I recognized some mistakes as well but this is obvious, i don't think someone among us never ever make mistakes. So don't worry for quality play, we are all happy that new people post here and personallt I'm always happy watching goblins being played !

[Blakroc]

I played a few games on Cockatrice and got my ass handed to me by a guy with an Aluren deck. Is this a bad matchup or was I just unlucky?

Artifact
4 Æther Vial

Creature
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Warren Instigator

Land
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
14 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Wasteland

SB
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sudden Demise
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

[GoblinSettler]

I played a few games on Cockatrice and got my ass handed to me by a guy with an Aluren deck. Is this a bad matchup or was I just unlucky?

Artifact
4 Æther Vial

Creature
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Warren Instigator

Land
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
14 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Wasteland

SB
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sudden Demise
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

I don't think it's a particularly bad matchup. Aluren is a turn 4 combo, right? So you have to race them and/or keep them off mana.

Did they have DRS to accelerate the combo or slow your Lackeys down?

Maybe try going to 23 lands and adding a Tarfire or the fourth Incinerator.

[prateta]

I played a few games on Cockatrice and got my ass handed to me by a guy with an Aluren deck. Is this a bad matchup or was I just unlucky?

Artifact
4 Æther Vial

Creature
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Warren Instigator

Land
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
14 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Wasteland

SB
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sudden Demise
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Just a question - why are you playing Snow-Covered Mountains?

[jrw1985]

I played a few games on Cockatrice and got my ass handed to me by a guy with an Aluren deck. Is this a bad matchup or was I just unlucky?

Artifact
4 Æther Vial

Creature
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Warren Instigator

Land
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
14 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Wasteland

SB
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sudden Demise
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Your deck is not at all set up to defeat Aluren, but don't beat yourself up about it. Aluren is a about 0.0000001% of the real-world meta. Goblin Sharpshooter is actually great for beating Aluren because all their combo pieces are x/1's, so Sharpshooter can win you the game single-handed. Also, a W splash would help since Thalia makes their Alurens more expensive. W also gives you access to Ethersworn Cannonist in the SB which they must answer in order to win.

[fashion]

hi all
next week sunday its the open national legacy in the netherlands and this is the list i wanted to play
4x Æther Vial
3x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Goblin Warchief
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
2x Mogg War Marshal
1x Siege-Gang Commander -
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Arid Mesa
1x Badlands
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Cavern of Souls
3x Mountain
2x Plateau
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
2x Warren Weirding

Sideboard

1x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Stingscourger
2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Rest in Peace
3x Pyrokinesis
3x Wear // Tear

i have added warren wierding because iam afriad of seeing a lot of TNM,s
should i ad a fetch for 1 platau

[GoboLord]

Hey folks,

today I played on another tournament. It was Rb Winstigator Goblins (again) and I finished 4-1 (again). The list was 100% the same as last time.

MANA (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Chrome Mox

CORE (23)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader

OTHERS (15)
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weiridng
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Sideboard (15)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Earwig Squad
3 Perish

MVPs were (once again) Goblin Chieftain and Goblin Ringleader. I still think that Earwig Squad is a reasonable SB option, but I still have the feeling that these 3 slots can be used better. I'm open for suggestions on that issue. Chrome Mox #3 in the MD was cool again and didn't cause any troubles. Krenko was not overwhelming but not bad either. I am still not content with this card, but for as long as I have not found another cmc1-4 card to take his place he will still be the Boss.

Here is a short overview of the matchups.

Round 1: Erik with TinFins (2-1)
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/avr/106.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/mr/39.jpg

Round 2: Timur with Ubw Faeries (1-2)
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mt/58.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/lw/89.jpg

Round 3: Simon with ANT (2-0)
http://magiccards.info/scans/de/ala/63.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/sc/75.jpg

Round 4: Tobias with UR Young Delver (2-1)
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/isd/51b.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/m12/145.jpg

Round 5: Christian with Pox (2-0)
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ts/131.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/fe/12.jpg

Taken together with my approach a little earlier this year I won 15/19 rounds (or 32/47 games) in my last 4 events with a WInstigator list. That is not meant to show how cool I am or something like that. Rather I want to highlight how consistently the deck performs well in a variety of MUs.

Thanks for reading. Questions are - as always - welcome.

-GL

[Pee-Dee-2]

@GoboLord: I don't know why you don't answer my pm but thats another Thing. To the Topic: Could you please explain why and how you lost against Timur (Faeries) and you won against Storm?

[Teluin]

Is Tarfire's tribal synergy with Ringleader worth playing it over Lightning Bolt/helping goyfs?

[Teluin]

Sorry, I'm sure it's been discussed at some point in the thread but didn't want to search for it.

[Blakroc]

Is Tarfire's tribal synergy with Ringleader worth playing it over Lightning Bolt/helping goyfs?
I think so, but its a matter of personal choice. It has synergy with Ringleader and Matron can tutor for it, which can save your ass. Plus it kills tons of relevant creatures like stoneforge, confidant, deathrite, insectile abberation, most of D&T, lavamancer, etc.

[Teluin]

Very true. Thanks.

[Potdindy]

@Gobolord. Has the extra aggression of your Winstigator build helped pressure Storm opponants to combo off before they are ready? Also, as much as people are seeming to like 3 or fewer Piledrivers lately, you are playing 4 of them and zero Mogg War marshall. Obviously it is working, but what are your reasons for this...unless we already talked about this.

[magicmerl]

@Gobolord. Has the extra aggression of your Winstigator build helped pressure Storm opponants to combo off before they are ready? Also, as much as people are seeming to like 3 or fewer Piledrivers lately, you are playing 4 of them and zero Mogg War marshall. Obviously it is working, but what are your reasons for this...unless we already talked about this.
I think that the only people that are cutting Piledrivers are replacing them with Thalia, which has a similar effect in terms of which matchups it's good against (Thalia slows them down, Piledriver speeds you up).

That said, I think that the reason for MWM being cut is to fit Warren Instigator into the list.

[Potdindy]

That said, I think that the reason for MWM being cut is to fit Warren Instigator into the list.

How much worth is playing some number of Chrome Moxes is you're not playing Warren Instigator? I'm thinking of buying some, so I'm wondering if they work also in classic builds. It definitely helps us drop Ringleaders and such, a bit earlier and lessens one of the biggest problems of our deck, being that it can take forever to get going sometimes. But in a land of abrupt decay, it feels like a blowout sometimes.

[lavafrogg]

Im now testing a build with zero piledriver and 3x tar fire and 4x gem palm and have been just destroying most of the fair decks right now. The only one playing tarmogoyf is tempo and Death and Taxes hates to see a vial on the other side of the board as much as anyone.

The removal also helps ensure lackey will connect…which is always good.

[prateta]

Hello everybody,

lately, while testing on Cockatrice, I've lost several times to a deck playing LoTV (or RIP) + Helm of Obedience combo. This deck also featured Sensei + Counterballance and Energy Field (plus Terminus, Mishra's Factory...), which always locked me up just right a turn before I could kill him. I tried to side in CoTV (@2 to stop Energy Field etc), Wear//Tear etc, but no proper results so far. Couldn't figure out a good strategy how to play against this kind of deck.

Have you figured out a strategy how to beat this deck? If so, I'd very much appreciate if you would share it here, thanks :-)

[max_goblin]

Hello everybody,

lately, while testing on Cockatrice, I've lost several times to a deck playing LoTV (or RIP) + Helm of Obedience combo. This deck also featured Sensei + Counterballance and Energy Field (plus Terminus, Mishra's Factory...), which always locked me up just right a turn before I could kill him. I tried to side in CoTV (@2 to stop Energy Field etc), Wear//Tear etc, but no proper results so far. Couldn't figure out a good strategy how to play against this kind of deck.

Have you figured out a strategy how to beat this deck? If so, I'd very much appreciate if you would share it here, thanks :-)

I believe its UW control, I really like this control and think it is the best control deck in legacy nowadays. Fortunately, very few people bring it to championship, since control is usualy bad in legacy lately. But we have a good chance if they dont find their combo pieces, usually I put some pressure on the table, but keep some fuel in hand, so if they terminus, you can rebuild fast. REB is a good SB card too, bur Wear//tear should be enough, usually a Wear//Tear at their RiP is enough to give you time to win.

But there is a long time I dont face this match.
Cya.

[Potdindy]

REB is a good SB card too, bur Wear//tear should be enough, usually a Wear//Tear at their RiP is enough to give you time to win.

Against Countertop, doesn't Wear//Tear lose to CB with the Top on top? Or does the split card thing make it harder to counter.

[GoboLord]

Against Countertop, doesn't Wear//Tear lose to CB with the Top on top? Or does the split card thing make it harder to counter.

Well, "Tear" does, but "Wear AND Tear" doesn't.
When you decide to cast both halves they fuse into one spell with CMC 3. You should target SDT and RIP in this case.

[Potdindy]

Well, "Tear" does, but "Wear AND Tear" doesn't.
When you decide to cast both halves they fuse into one spell with CMC 3. You should target SDT and RIP in this case.

Shoot, that makes the card so much better, wow. Didn't realize that. I think that warrants dropping G spash entirely unless ppl like Tin-street hooligan.

[TheOnlyNahlej]

First, I want to thank all that have kept this board up and going, it is a great place to get info and ideas for my little green guys.

I have a Legacy tournament coming up this weekend for a Candelabra, and they are having a pre-tourny tourny tomorrow night. Should I play my normal goblins list, try some new changes, or play an entirely different list to keep those who would meta against me off of my true deck?

My normal list is:
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Goblin Chieftain

4x Aether Vial
1x Tarfire

4x Plateau
4x Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain
3x Arid Mesa
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Rishadan Port
2x Wasteland

SB
4x Rest in Peace
3X Thorn of Amethyst
4x Wear/Tear
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Tarfire
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Stingscourger

[prateta]

Well, "Tear" does, but "Wear AND Tear" doesn't.
When you decide to cast both halves they fuse into one spell with CMC 3. You should target SDT and RIP in this case.

Wow, didn't know that... this is the main the reason why I lost so many games against this deck, because he always put his Sensei back on top -> counter and there was nothing I could do about it, since I didn't know it's possible to change CMC of the card by fusing it together. Should've thought about it, I hate when I play my cards wrong. Thank you VERY much! This changes everything :-D (at least in this matchup, Wear//Tear is even better now).

[orcanmail]

Went 4-0 again with my mono red Winstigator List.

I beat elves 2-0, delver 2-1, pox 2-0, and a white list with morphed lifelink angel 2-1

The key was the speed, 4 tarfires, 3 pyros, 2 chrome moxes, 3 instigators, 4 lackeys, 1 skirk prospector, which gave me time to play into 2 piledrivers, 3 MWM, 2 stingscourgers, 3 Gempalms, 2 warchiefs, 3 Chieftains, 4 Matrons, 4 Ringleaders, 1 Krenko, 1 SGC. 4 caverns, 4 wastelands, 11 mountains.
61 cards as 1 for luck which i know is technically incorrect!

Also SB of 4 pyroblasts/REB essential, and 4 chalices, 3 thorns, 1 tin street, 1 tinkerer, 2 boartusk Liege ( as e.plague common in my meta )

So I don't play vials or ports, and i have more success playing aggro with removal for lackey effects and ringleaders for card advantage. I would consider a sharpshooter in my SB for a boartusk if the meta was different.

This list is explosive and effective for me. It has many answers in the SB and does well against a wide field of decks.

[fashion]

First, I want to thank all that have kept this board up and going, it is a great place to get info and ideas for my little green guys.

I have a Legacy tournament coming up this weekend for a Candelabra, and they are having a pre-tourny tourny tomorrow night. Should I play my normal goblins list, try some new changes, or play an entirely different list to keep those who would meta against me off of my true deck?

My normal list is:
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Goblin Chieftain

4x Aether Vial
1x Tarfire

4x Plateau
4x Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain
3x Arid Mesa
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Rishadan Port
2x Wasteland

SB
4x Rest in Peace
3X Thorn of Amethyst
4x Wear/Tear
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Tarfire
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Stingscourger

Looks sharp to me. But i would change one thing -1thaila +1krenko mob bos he is soooooo asome and game winning!

[fashion]

Also i like pyrokenisis in the side board
You should give lighting crafter a try its funtions a a rescue for a valuble ceature
And if you champion a ringleadr to it your oppo thinks twice before removing it
Its scare the s**** out of most of my oppo.s.
Plus i like the bolt its carries for the last dammage or spot removal
And if you run out of gas bolt its self and the ring leader comes in to play.

[GoblinSettler]

Went 4-0 again with my mono red Winstigator List.

I beat elves 2-0, delver 2-1, pox 2-0, and a white list with morphed lifelink angel 2-1

The key was the speed, 4 tarfires, 3 pyros, 2 chrome moxes, 3 instigators, 4 lackeys, 1 skirk prospector, which gave me time to play into 2 piledrivers, 3 MWM, 2 stingscourgers, 3 Gempalms, 2 warchiefs, 3 Chieftains, 4 Matrons, 4 Ringleaders, 1 Krenko, 1 SGC. 4 caverns, 4 wastelands, 11 mountains.
61 cards as 1 for luck which i know is technically incorrect!

Also SB of 4 pyroblasts/REB essential, and 4 chalices, 3 thorns, 1 tin street, 1 tinkerer, 2 boartusk Liege ( as e.plague common in my meta )

So I don't play vials or ports, and i have more success playing aggro with removal for lackey effects and ringleaders for card advantage. I would consider a sharpshooter in my SB for a boartusk if the meta was different.

This list is explosive and effective for me. It has many answers in the SB and does well against a wide field of decks.

What was your technique in the Elves match? Is your main deck pyro card Pyrokinesis? It seems like that would help.

I'm on a similar list. But against Elves I've only gotten there via SB cards.

Another question, what are your thoughts regarding MWM in an aggressive list? I have opted to keep 4 Piledrivers.

[jimmythegreek]

Although hands without vial or lackey are not optimal I've come to the realization that other, sometimes slower hands can be keepable. This all may sound obvious but I've mulled myself to death with this deck, many times my mull to five will consist of ringleaderx2 a couple land and a matron. So whats my point you ask? Recently I've been keeping hands that may be a tad slower yet contain some mix of warchief and/or war marshall. Sometimes a hand with lackey or vial is sub-par to a slower more threat dense hand that can just out creature our opponents. I cant stress enough that learning to mulligan correctly with this deck is of an ut-most importance when a large portion of our deck is made up of unusually high mana costing creatures.

Ps. Does anyone else find it more gratifying beating someone with goblins compared to other decks, I love this deck.

[Sockosensei]

I played RB Instigator at my local shop last night.
Just a simple report as I know GoboLord likes to have both the good and the bad for completeness.

Goblins (34)
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Warren Instigator
3x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

2x Tarfire
2x Warren Weirding
3x Gempalm Incinerator

Other (4)
4x AEther Vial

Land (22)
4x Badlands
1x Auntie's Hovel
4x Fetchland
4x Cavern of Souls
3x Mountain
4x Wasteland
2x Chrome Mox

Sideboard
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Earwig Squad
3x Perish
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Chrome Mox


Rd1: 2-0 vs UW Countertop Miracles.
G1: He stalled me with Ensnaring Bridge, but I had a swarm and a Matron for Tuktuk.
I didn't see many of his cards but my guess was Miracles.

Sideboarding OUT: 3x Gempalm, 2x Tarfire, 1x Warren Weirding, 1x Stingscourger;

IN: 3x Therapy, 2x Earwig, 1x Tuktuk, 1x Mox
G2: The game ended with all four Ringleaders swinging in for the win. I'd prowled in Earwig earlier taking both copies of Entreat and a Jace, and my hand was full of goblins in case of Terminus.


Rd2: 0-2 vs Death & Taxes
G1: mull to 5. Get owned.
G2: mull to 5. Get owned.

SB: can't remember exactly but I took out 2x Piledrivers.


Rd3: 1-2 vs Pox (mono-black LD Nether Void version)
G1: He gains complete control and I find myself with no land, no creatures, and no hand. I scoop to save time.

SB: my sideboard is terrible for this matchup. I took out most removal, bringing in 1x Tuktuk, 2x Earwig, 1x Mox, 3x Therapy.
G2: Multiple Vials plus Warren Instigator, 2x Chieftain, and a massive storm of goblins result in me swinging for 18 even with Engineered Plague out.
G3: his early Cursed Scrolls with Engineered Plague, and Pithing Needles on Vial and Krenko, prevent me from establishing any board presence.

Finished: 1-2 in rounds, 3-4 in games.


SGC hasn't hit the board once in 15 games, including practice games. That means either it's not needed, or I should be Matroning for it instead of something else.

The D&T round was vs my friend. We played about 8 games on the day, of which I won just one. The other 7 were nightmare blowouts in his favor. He was able to consistently deal with my early threats, establish a superior board (usually with equipment), put Revoker on my Vial or Gempalm, and Port my lands. This matchup was a complete nightmare. Pyrokinesis and additional, cheap artifact destruction were sorely missed. I'd appreciate any tips.

[GoboLord]

The D&T round was vs my friend. We played about 8 games on the day, of which I won just one. The other 7 were nightmare blowouts in his favor. He was able to consistently deal with my early threats, establish a superior board (usually with equipment), put Revoker on my Vial or Gempalm, and Port my lands. This matchup was a complete nightmare. Pyrokinesis and additional, cheap artifact destruction were sorely missed. I'd appreciate any tips.

I don't have any tips, but there are cards available in RB that are very effective against D&T.


Goblin Sharpshooter
Pyrokinesis
Electrickery
Dread of Night

The last may be too narrow/specific. Pyrokinesis is not the most optimal card in a Winstigator build, so Electrickery would be an in-between solution. Sharpshooter should do quite well too, but I personally don't like this guy.

Apart from that I would board Chrome Mox #3 (in case you didn't do that) and keep in as many spotremoval as possible. Maybe I have more to say about this MU after the weekend. I do think that it's problematic though. I actually rather want to be paired against storm-combo than against D&T (mostly because I don't like plaiyng against deck where my strategy isn't all that clear to me).

[ScatmanX]

DnT is indeed a trick MU. RW is more suitable for it imo, since Wear/Tear is great, so is Rg with TSH, but you need G to destroy the artifact, which can be problematic. Tuktuk Scrapper is ok, but you have to be sure you can kill Revokers to use your Vial, and that's just another reason why I love Tarfire.
They have only 4 Spot Removal MD, and 1-2 on the SB. They don't usually kill Lackey, but rather block it. That means he stays on the board. So IF you want to keep pushing B splash, Rakdos Charm is a possibility. Destroys artifacts, which is great (crucial actually) and may work as a 'Dark Ritual' to instantly cast Krenko or Ringleader.
If you want to be more specific, there is Virtue's Ruin or Anarchy, but I'd recommend neither.

My plan agains them, with monored is to be the agressor. Try to be fast. They can't mana-denial you so easily early, specially with lots of basic Mountains, and you have cheap removal, and hopefully Mox to speed things up.
On the Rw buil I try to be more controlish. I have more removal, and the only really relevant cards are equipament and an activeMother of Runes. If you have Wear/Tear and O.ring and Tuktuk for equips/Vial/Revoker, and Tarfire/Gempalm/Whatever for Mom, eventually you'll be able to get your CA going, and roll over them.
Guess that the B splash would be more similar to the monored version. Don't really know.

[Admiral_Arzar]

The D&T round was vs my friend. We played about 8 games on the day, of which I won just one. The other 7 were nightmare blowouts in his favor. He was able to consistently deal with my early threats, establish a superior board (usually with equipment), put Revoker on my Vial or Gempalm, and Port my lands. This matchup was a complete nightmare. Pyrokinesis and additional, cheap artifact destruction were sorely missed. I'd appreciate any tips.


I don't have any tips, but there are cards available in RB that are very effective against D&T.


Goblin Sharpshooter
Pyrokinesis
Electrickery
Dread of Night

The last may be too narrow/specific. Pyrokinesis is not the most optimal card in a Winstigator build, so Electrickery would be an in-between solution. Sharpshooter should do quite well too, but I personally don't like this guy.

Apart from that I would board Chrome Mox #3 (in case you didn't do that) and keep in as many spotremoval as possible. Maybe I have more to say about this MU after the weekend. I do think that it's problematic though. I actually rather want to be paired against storm-combo than against D&T (mostly because I don't like plaiyng against deck where my strategy isn't all that clear to me).

If Death and Taxes is big in your meta, just play Dread of Night (I play it as a 3-of in my ANT board nowadays). Ain't nobody got time to lose to Mother of Runes + Thalia. I suppose Engineered Plague is an option as it also deals with True-Name Nemesis. Not sure how much this deck cares about that card though, as I haven't played Goblins in forever.

[Anvil]

Greetings all.

First of; I registered here just for this thread, planning on restarting my own goblin legacy deck ( it's been partially assembled but lacks some key cards ).

I have a few questions;

When I first spoke to several players, they suggested a card that I seem to miss here; Fling.

It seems like a good card versus moat and other can't attack mechanics.It is however counterable and as such probably a less than adequate choice.

What I also 'miss' here, is a mention of auntie's hovel and other B/R lands ( graven cairns / blood crypt come to mind ) that might be usefull ( rakdos carnarium and other "comes into play tapped"-lands obviously aren't contenders here ).

So, hopefully some of you can help me out here :)

p.s: please ignore or forgive any misspellings, as English isn't my native language ;)

[Sandro95]

The black splash can offer several tools for the Death and Taxes matchup.

Cabal Therapy can be used to discard equipments fetched with SFM.
Dread of Night fights their white creatures.
So does Virtue's Ruin.
Warren Weirding is good against them, but so is most removal.
Rakdos Charms seems descent.
Engineered Plague could be set on several creature types, propably most often on human though.

I think the black splash can be good for fighting DnT. In fact, if you're really willing to commit to the matchup, I think it is the best splash, because of Dread of Night. Otherwise, I think it's still descent, although it's not as good at fighting equipments, but red already has a lot of artifact destruction available.

On the matchup in general. I think DnT is generally favored, and it's a pretty close matchup. They have a lot of tricks that one should learn how to play around. They are also less dependant on having a vial online. Our card advantage is superior to theirs, so we are very happy to trade 1 for 1.

[Sockosensei]

I wouldn't say D&T is big in the meta--in fact, this is only the second time I've ever faced it at the local shop--so I'm not looking to dedicate sideboard slots specifically to the matchup. But I am happy to know cards that could be strong here while still being useful in other matchups, so thank you. Oh, and I did board in Chrome Mox #3 hoping for that extra touch of speed. I tried to prioritize with the Tarfires, usually on Mom, but then something else would Vial in and equip and I was soon dead.

Other questions:
Is TSH useable in Instigator builds off a single Taiga+Caverns, or is the anti-synergy with Instigator a deal killer? I sure would love to free up that 4-mana slot!

@GoboLord: you once mentioned that if you had a full set of Badlands you would cut fetches entirely. Do you still feel that way? I sure do love having ways to grab basic mountains.

Is anyone else besides GoboLord and me testing Earwig Squad? What do you think?

[Sandro95]

Greetings all.

First of; I registered here just for this thread, planning on restarting my own goblin legacy deck ( it's been partially assembled but lacks some key cards ).

I have a few questions;

When I first spoke to several players, they suggested a card that I seem to miss here; Fling.

It seems like a good card versus moat and other can't attack mechanics.It is however counterable and as such probably a less than adequate choice.

What I also 'miss' here, is a mention of auntie's hovel and other B/R lands ( graven cairns / blood crypt come to mind ) that might be usefull ( rakdos carnarium and other "comes into play tapped"-lands obviously aren't contenders here ).

So, hopefully some of you can help me out here :)

p.s: please ignore or forgive any misspellings, as English isn't my native language ;)

I don't think Fling has a place in this deck. Consider that most of our goblins are 1 or 2 power guys, so then we might as well play another tarfire which can also be very useful in more commons situations (thankfully, Moat is very uncommon, although Siege-Gang Commander can do some work versus it).

Graven Cairns is a good card, but we don't need double black, and the lands we have that tap for black tap for red also. Blood Crypt is a worse version of Badlands, but could be used as a budget alternative. Auntie's Hovel has seen some play, but has a few weaknesses compare to Badlands/Fetch.

[Anvil]

I don't think Fling has a place in this deck. Consider that most of our goblins are 1 or 2 power guys, so then we might as well play another tarfire which can also be very useful in more commons situations (thankfully, Moat is very uncommon, although Siege-Gang Commander can do some work versus it).

Graven Cairns is a good card, but we don't need double black, and the lands we have that tap for black tap for red also. Blood Crypt is a worse version of Badlands, but could be used as a budget alternative. Auntie's Hovel has seen some play, but has a few weaknesses compare to Badlands/Fetch.

I think mostly the fling is to fling a fully buffed piledriver into your opponent's face.

I see some weakness to Auntie's Hovel, it not being fetchable.But for those people ( like me :P ) that don't want to buy duals just for 1 deck ( this would just be an occasional legacy deck ), do you think that Auntie's Hovel,Blood Crypt and Graven Cairns would do the job?

Graven Cairns does more than just supply BB in my eyes.Should you end up with a swamp,Graven Cairns,vial,etc in your hand, it's possible to drop swamp, vial T1, cairns T2 and you have acces to red mana ( albeit it limits some playchoices ).Anyone have any experience with this?

[max_goblin]

Why play fling over Goblin Grenade? =]
Its really disappointing that they never printed Goblin Grenade as a Sorcery Tribal - Goblin... that would be insane.. I would tottaly bring 3~4 to MD, the fact that you can deal 10 damage after an attack is really a big issue, but the fact that you cant draw it with ringleader crush it.

I dont think D&T are a problem, i think Blade decks in general are a problem. Even with 2 goblin artifact hate in MD/SB is hard to deal with a solved jitte on any creature. D&T has a lot of first strike creatures and other blades have delver.. it is really complicated. Hope I am playing wrong in this match ups, because in my last tornament I found 3 blade decks (2 D&T and one UWr blade), win one, lost two games.

I guess I will move to a black splash =]

[prateta]

Why play fling over Goblin Grenade? =]
Its really disappointing that they never printed Goblin Grenade as a Sorcery Tribal - Goblin... that would be insane.. I would tottaly bring 3~4 to MD, the fact that you can deal 10 damage after an attack is really a big issue, but the fact that you cant draw it with ringleader crush it.

I dont think D&T are a problem, i think Blade decks in general are a problem. Even with 2 goblin artifact hate in MD/SB is hard to deal with a solved jitte on any creature. D&T has a lot of first strike creatures and other blades have delver.. it is really complicated. Hope I am playing wrong in this match ups, because in my last tornament I found 3 blade decks (2 D&T and one UWr blade), win one, lost two games.

I guess I will move to a black splash =]

What splash are you playing now? Because I play RW Thalia goblins and I win most of the matchups against blade decks.

1x Tuktuk MD
3x Wear//Tear SB
1x Shattering Spree SB

As long as you can kill SFM (tarfirem, gempalm), they can't play those blade so soon. Then you have enough time to bring in Tuktuk with matron/ringleader or draw wear, shattering. Or just use your pushing methods/removal spells to keep them out of creatures. They usualy don't play too many of them, no big deal to kill them all. Also, if I don't have some kind of artifact removal in my initial hand, I often try to mulligan to 6 if I get lucky. Most of the time I do, then it's quite easy to beat them.

[magicmerl]

First, I want to thank all that have kept this board up and going, it is a great place to get info and ideas for my little green guys.

I have a Legacy tournament coming up this weekend for a Candelabra, and they are having a pre-tourny tourny tomorrow night. Should I play my normal goblins list, try some new changes, or play an entirely different list to keep those who would meta against me off of my true deck?

My normal list is:
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Goblin Chieftain

4x Aether Vial
1x Tarfire

4x Plateau
4x Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain
3x Arid Mesa
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Rishadan Port
2x Wasteland

SB
4x Rest in Peace
3X Thorn of Amethyst
4x Wear/Tear
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Tarfire
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Stingscourger
I think that 4 Thalia is overkill (3 is more typical) and I would want some Krenko/SGC in there, maybe over the 4th copies of your other two-drops? I quite like having a toolbox of value vs various decks like Prospector, Sharpshooter, Stingscourger etc. 4 Wasteland is also standard as well.

[TheOnlyNahlej]

I think that 4 Thalia is overkill (3 is more typical) and I would want some Krenko/SGC in there, maybe over the 4th copies of your other two-drops? I quite like having a toolbox of value vs various decks like Prospector, Sharpshooter, Stingscourger etc. 4 Wasteland is also standard as well.
I had prior used a toolbox approach with stingscourger, sharpshooter, Krenko, and Seige-Gang, but dropped them for 4 Mogg War Marshals. I have recently cut down on the Thalia to 3 and put the Krenko back in it's place.
If I was to up my wasteland count, should I cut down on the number or fetches or something else?

[LeoCop 90]

You can easily cut 2 plateau (or 1 plateau, 1 fetchland) and one mountain for 2 wastelands and the third rishadan port. Then if you want to run also the 4 port you should add a 23rd land, but with thalia main deck is not necessary in my opinion.

[OlegtheSuper]

I'm going to play big legacy tournament in this Saturday. Could you teach me how to sb against DTB?

my list:
4 lackey
4 vial
1 skirk
1 sting
4 driver
2 MWM
2 TSH
4 gempalm
4 warchief
4 matron
1 shooter
1 krenco
4 ringleader
1 SCG

6 fetchland
3 mountain
4 port
4 wasteland
1 plateau
1 taiga
4 cavern

SB:
2 chalice
2 thalia
2 confusion in tha ranks
2 wear/tear
3 kinesis
3 relic
1 trap


vs D&T
+3 kinesis +2 WT
-4 driver -1 mwm


vs RUG(no TNN)
on draw
+3 relic +3 kinesis
-1 scg -2 tsh -1 shooter -2 driver
on turn
-1 scg -2 tsh -1 shooter -1 driver -1 skirk


vs S&T
+2 thalia +2 confusion +2 WT
-2 tsh -4 ringleader


vs Maverick no plague, no pushfire:
+3 pyro

or i need to add +3 relic against knights, ooze, shaman, if it is so what do i need to sb out?

on draw:
-2 driver -1 mwm

on turn:
-1 driver -2 mwm

plague, no pushfire:
+3 pyro +2 WT
-2 driver -2 mwm -1 sting

pushfire, no plague:
+3 pyro +3 relic
-4 driver -1 sting -1 skirk


vs Tem America
on draw no info:
+3 relic +3 pyro -1 TSH -4 lackey -1 shooter

on draw plague: +3 relic +3 pyro +2 wear -1 shooter -1 TSH -4 lackey -1 skirk -1 scg

on draw jitte:
+3 relic +3 pyro -4 lackey -1 scg -1 shooter

on draw all:
+3 relic +3 pyro +2 wear -4 lackey -1 skirk -1 shooter -1 driver -1 scg

on play no info:
+3 relic +3 pyro +1 wear -1 TSH -1 mwm -2 driver -1 skirk -1 shooter -1 scg

on play plague:
+3 relic +3 pyro +2 wear -2 TSH -1 skirk -1 shooter -2 driver -1 scg -1 mwm

on play all:
+3 relic +3 pyro +2 wear -1 TSH -1 skirk -1 shooter -1 scg -1 mwm -2 driver -1 ?


UWR delver(Owen's list)
+3 pyrokinesis -2 mwm -1 sting


Jund+pushfire
on draw no info:
+3 pyro +3 relic -4 lackey -2 tsh
on draw+plague:
+3 pyro +3 relic +2 wt -4 lackey -2 ths -1 sting -1 skirk
on draw+jitte:
+3 pyro +3 relic -4 lackey -1 sting -1 skirk
on draw+all:
+3 pyro +3 relic +2 wt -4 lackey -1 skirk -1 shooter -1 tsh -1 sting

on play no info:
+2 pyro +3 relic +1 wt(if i've lost first) -1 skirk -1 tsh -1 shooter -1 sting -2 driver
on play+plague:
+2 pyro +3 relic +2 wt -1 skirk -2 tsh -1 shooter -1 sting -2 mwm
on play+jitte:
+3 pyro +3 relic -1 shooter -1 sting -1 skirk -3 driver
on play+all:
+2 pyro +3 relic +2 wt -1 shooter -1 skirk -1 sting -2 mwm -2 driver

[orcanmail]

The Great Escape. A game to remember.

So I was playing Show and Tell in the Final of the local Tourney, and he goes first in the last duel and manages to cast Show and Tell and drops Emrakul turn 1 smirking. ( I later found out he was holding a force of will )
I dropped a matron and fetched up Stingscourger.

So my go, I dropped a mountain, then a Chrome Mox, then my second Chrome Mox that i top decked. I then cast Stingscourger to bounce Emrakul, which he tried to Force, but with my 1 open red mana I cast REB!
His face dropped in disbelief. My remaining card was a wasteland which I used next turn to destroy his solitary land, and then with 2 moxes and a mountain I started to draw into Goblins and overwhelmed him quickly for the win.

Lucky yes, but would never have happened without acceleration of Chrome Moxes, and REB from sideboard.

[prateta]

The Great Escape. A game to remember.

So I was playing Show and Tell in the Final of the local Tourney, and he goes first in the last duel and manages to cast Show and Tell and drops Emrakul turn 1 smirking. ( I later found out he was holding a force of will )
I dropped a matron and fetched up Stingscourger.

So my go, I dropped a mountain, then a Chrome Mox, then my second Chrome Mox that i top decked. I then cast Stingscourger to bounce Emrakul, which he tried to Force, but with my 1 open red mana I cast REB!
His face dropped in disbelief. My remaining card was a wasteland which I used next turn to destroy his solitary land, and then with 2 moxes and a mountain I started to draw into Goblins and overwhelmed him quickly for the win.

Lucky yes, but would never have happened without acceleration of Chrome Moxes, and REB from sideboard.

Haha, nice play he surely didn't expect that :-) That's the beauty of goblins. They can do surprising shit like this and they're unstoppable. They always come back, you just can't get rid of them. They're so awesome I'd marry every one of those little green bastards.

[GoboLord]

They're so awesome I'd marry every one of those little green bastards.

Just think about Christmas with the family. They have sooo many relatives... And weird Uncle Krenko has the bad habit of inviting random fellas...

~...Silent Night...~

//EDIT: Oh, and then you hear Mogg Fanatic shout out of the kitchen: "Screw you, youngsters. When I was your age, combat damage would still go on the stack!!!"

On topic of "Games to remember"

Last weekend in the first match against Pox I was watching my opponent work on my mana and my hands. Ultimately I had "only" two Vials in play ticking every round, but no goblins on the field or in hand. Ultimately I drew 2 Warren Instigators in 2 consecutive turns. So, my Opp had his guard up in form of a Mutavault to Block one Winstigator. EOT I bring in the other via Vial. Then, in my turn I draw Matron.

So, on his turn I had 1 WInstigator in play, 2 Vials and 1 card in hand.
At the end of my next turn I had 1 Winstigator, 1 Matron, 1 Ringleader, 1 Chieftain, 1 Krenko, 6 Goblin Token and two Vials in play and another Chieftain in hand.

[Sandro95]

I went 1-3 with goblins yesterday.

R1 Death and Taxes (Loss)
I remember having two vials turned off by a Revoker g1, while only having two lands.

R2 A brew with Nic fit Characteristics (Win)
I won g1
G2 My opponent lands a Moat, but doesn't have much of a clock. I get Krenko + Skirk Prospector online to allow me to chain ringleaders to go through my deck. My opponent drops Engineered Plague + Orzhov Pontiff, but I have Chieftain + Boartusk Liege, and on my turn I make a dozen tokens with Krenko, and then Skirk Prospector + Goblin Sharpshooter finishes it. I think my opponent was somewhere close to twenty life. Beating Moat + Plague felt pretty sweet!

R3 Infect (Loss)
I misplayed G1 by wastelanding a Blinkmoth Nexus when he had mana open to cast Vines of the Vastwood, a pretty bad play considering I'm at least relatively familiar with what an infect list looks like.
Chalice helped a lot G2, but I lost the third game.

R4 Four color good stuff WBRG (Loss)
I wasn't playing my best here, being 1-2 in a four rounds tournament. However, that's no excuse for bad play!
G1 (I think) My opponent had two Lands, a DRS and a Bob. He tapped out for an O-ring(I think) targeting my vial on three. I responded by vialing in a Goblin Chieftain, gempalmed his Bob, untapped and played two lackeys with double ringleader in hand. Yeah, that was pretty explosive.
My opponent misplayed by playing O-Ring when I only had prospector and he only Lily, but I didn't even see the play. As I said, I wasn't very focused, but in my opinion, when I find myself in such a state I should refocus, rather than play badly.

My Sideboard was a work in progress as I wasn't sure about the last few cards (although Boartusk Liege turned out to be quite useful!).
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Perish
1 Engineered Plague
1 Shattering Spree
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Red Elemental Blast

[prateta]

Just think about Christmas with the family. They have sooo many relatives... And weird Uncle Krenko has the bad habit of inviting random fellas...

~...Silent Night...~

//EDIT: Oh, and then you hear Mogg Fanatic shout out of the kitchen: "Screw you, youngsters. When I was your age, combat damage would still go on the stack!!!"



Brilliant :-D if you think about it, goblins have everything you need for a good christmas party. Mother is the cook, Stingscourger is there for the new year's eve firecrackers, Lackey to serve the quests. The only problem may occur if adopted child Thalia starts seducing the clan Chieftain, which may result to Goblin Piledriver breaking her neck.

I'm afraid that this kind of party could get a little bit out of control. God forbid their neighbours are elves.

[ScatmanX]

I'm afraid that this kind of party could get a little bit out of control.
Don't worry, we can always ask Krenko to make more goblins, or Ringleader to gather some more.
But not Recruited. He can't show up after what he did...

[GoboLord]

Stingscourger is there for the new year's eve firecrackers

Good thing Grandpa Goblin Pyromancer is not invited.

On a different note:

Although have been quite successful with RB WInstigator lately I want to give Rishadan Ports and Mogg War Marshal a try. However I'm pondering about one or two issues.

This is what I definitely want to have in the MD

//MANA (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Badlands
13 Others lands

//extended CORE (28)
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 MWM
4 Chieftain
4 Matron
4 Ringleader

//OTHER (10)
1 Warren Weirding
1 Stingscourger
8 Other cards

SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
7 Others cards

The metagame will be very open. I think the top contenders will be Storm, Show&Tell, Esperblade and Elves.
What would you design the manabase and the remaining 8 MD and 7 SB slots with those four decks in mind?
Note that it might be the case that I have no Chrome Moxen available, bc a buddy of mine wants to play Belcher.

I'm looking forward to hear your suggestions and explanations!

[Davran]

The metagame will be very open. I think the top contenders will be Storm, Show&Tell, Esperblade and Elves.
What would you design the manabase and the remaining 8 MD and 7 SB slots with those four decks in mind?
Note that it might be the case that I have no Chrome Moxen available, bc a buddy of mine wants to play Belcher.

I'm looking forward to hear your suggestions and explanations!

If you're expecting elves, Sharpshooter and Pyrokinesis should make an appearance somewhere in your 75 for sure.

I also think you need some form of artifact hate for the Blade decks and other random Jittes. I'd probably run one in the main for Matron to grab and at least one more in the board.

[OlegtheSuper]

Tooday I have done 5-8 place in the big tournament(91 people)
2-1 ant
2-1 grixis pyromant delver
2-0 show and sneak
1-1 mirakl
0-2 TA
2-0 loam
2-0 elfs
Top8 0-2 TA

[prateta]

So... I've got this Kiki-Jiki on my desk and it's driving me crazy I ain't able to play him. I tried to play him, but he truly is just a win-more. Played like 20 games online with him and there were only like 1-2 games when I was glad having him in my hand/topdecking him/wanted to tutor for him. Krenko was always better and faster at finishing the game. Hell even SGC would be better.

Any of you guys have any idea how to integrate him to the deck? Maybe some kind of combo worth playing? Because I really want to play this sweet card (I am an altered card fetishist).

http://i40.tinypic.com/34j3o93.jpg

Btw, played a lot of games (+- 60) on Cockatrice lately with no Stingscourger maindeck or SB because of some changes and there was just no space for him to fit in. So I decided to give it a try and cut him off. Never actually missed him, I remember maybe one game when I felt like having him would be good. Just a food for thought.

[Sockosensei]

Any of you guys have any idea how to integrate him to the deck? Maybe some kind of combo worth playing? Because I really want to play this sweet card (I am an altered card fetishist).


Just a few pages back, ScatmanX posted a tournament report running Kiki-Jiki with Restoration Angel for combo plays and blinked Ringleaders. It sounded incredibly fun.

Interesting to note on the Stingscourger.

@GoboLord: I've sleeved up the 75 you posted in your previous report. Looking forward to 7 hastelords.

[Asgar]

@gobbolord
1st things First. If you want to Play Basics, You will have 11 Black sources at most, if you want to Play caverns its the Same, if You Play no(!) basics.
With 4 Cabal Therapy against Storm You always want T1-2 Black Mana. Against Sneakshow caverns is One of the better cards in your deck. You have to keep this in mind by Building they Manabase.
I would suggest something along the Lines of 5 Mana-Screw Lands, 2 caverns 3 Basic Mountain --> 12 Black sources.

A friend of Mine and ne Testes the Deathblade MU and over Time it went from acceptable to bad. We Figuren out a tech, how you can Beat them a Lot better.
The Games Play Out Kind of like this:
He get's deathrite You Händle or ignore him, he Lands Stoneforge and you have to answering every threat or the Equipment from now on, eh get's TNN and eh locks us out of the game, because we were Controlling Till then and dont have a Lot of Board presence. Then we turn on the ca-Machine, while he's Beratung is down with deathrite activations and Nemesis. This Works, because he has saved his disruption Till now (because we were playing control) and can kill/discard the Important creatures with a 3-5 turn clock on the table.
Krenko is One of the few ways out. Often je get's a Second Stoneforge, wich Equipment we have to handle and we have to Play Control again, while he's killing us with nemesis.

The Way Out: just play on Control, but with cares, that can handle gis entire board. Something along the Lines of: 3 Massacre, 2 Shattering pulse.

Havent testet it yet, but whipe his Board into Warchief, piledriver, Piledriver, gg seems pretty hard to beat. Shattering Pulse kills Jitte and SoFI, while traiding 5 of your mana with 5-8 from him.

[cooljets]

I've had the core of this deck for a long time, but I finally manged to trade for 4x Wasteland and 4x Rishadan Port. This is the list I took to a local Legacy tourney last weekend. I dropped the Kiki-Jiki and Siege Gang in favor of a 2nd Krenko, as I never wanted to be tempted to tick my Vials up to 5, and I replaced a few non-goblin things in the sideboard (Pyrokinesis, Pyroblast) in favor of creature control that can be flipped via Ringleader (Sharpshooter and Lightning Crafter).

//MANA [22]
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern Of Souls
10 Mountain

//CORE [23]:
4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader

//Others [15]:
3 Mogg War Marshall
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector

//Sideboard [15]
4 Relic Of Progenitus
3 Chalice Of The Void
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Lighting Crafter
1 Goblin Sharpshooter



Round 1 vs Storm (0-2)

Game 1 I have a slower start and he wins on turn 4.

-3 gempalm -1 tuktuk -1 stingscourger -1 sharpshooter -1 prospector
+3 chalice +4 relic

Game 2 I keep 1x Chalice 2x Waste. He has therapy for my chalice, luckily I topdeck a 2nd one and set it to 1. Then I waste both of his lands. We draw go for a bit while I get mana to play my only goblin at the time (ringleader). I draw into a few more guys, but on the turn before I can swing for the win he goes off with 3 Cabal Rituals's and I lose.



Round 2 vs D&T (1-2)

Game 1 I probably make a pretty bad play and swing my lackey into his untapped vial at 2. I thought for some reason I needed to be aggressive and hope he didnt have something to win, but looking back on it now, it was probably a huge punt. After this he just has more/faster guys than me w/ Jitte, etc.

-1 stingscourger -3 piledriver
+2 tuktuk +1 crafter +1 sharpshooter

Game 2 I manage to get a vial going (he uses that 2/1 pithing needle guy on it, but I have gempalm) and start overwealming him. Near the end he threatens to get a jitte going, but matron into lightning crafter w/ a hastelord on the table prompts him to scoop.

Game 3 I think I mulled into a mediocre 6 card sans vial and I'm unable to keep mom and a doublestriking guy from getting too many counters on jitte.



Round 3 vs some random red homebrew (2-0)

Now that I was in the bean bracket, I was faced with a guy piloting a non tested deck. It had maindeck chalice, trinisphere, and blood moon, none of which I really cared about that much. The rest was double sided red werewolf guys that were way too slow for goblins. There isn't much to say because he scooped pretty quickly both games.



Round 4 vs Pox (0-2)

Even though it didn't matter because we weren't in contention for top 8, this was a pretty frustrating experience. I had practiced against this player in quite a few games the day before and won almost all of them. But for some reason I ran out of steam against Lilliana game 1 and then game 2 lost to double engineered plague. Ugh.



A frustrating day, to be sure, but I've learned a few things. First of all, against decks like D&T, I need to remember to assume a more controlling role. Secondly, considering the meta here is pretty heavy on midrange equipment decks, I should think about giving up the 2nd Krenko and Sharpshooter/Prospector for a set of Tarfires. Maybe working a single Lightning Craft into the main would be possible as well, as keeping equipment off of x/2's seems more important (and likely) than getting to abuse Sharpshooter and Crafter gives me a second shot at my matron or ringleader if/when he hits the bin.

I do have fetches and Bandlands, so a black splash for Warren Weirdeing and/or Earwig Squad's is also doable. I really like the idea of having as much of my sideboard as possible be goblins so not to dilute my ringleader percentages, as I really think that is key to the deck. Is there a reason why Weirding is better than Stingscourger? I'll admit, the times when I've used Scourger is very low, although I have yet to encounter a Sneak And Show deck. Gobbolord's Winstigator list looks pretty nice, I might try to head that direction. Thanks for reading, let me know if you have any thoughts.

[prateta]

Hello,

I think you play too little removals in your deck. Usual number nowadays is like 6, because we need to respond to early DRS/Mother/SFM etc...

I'd suggest you to add 3 Tarfires to your 3 Gempalms. They are really awesome, also can clear the way for Lackey. To get a space for them, maybe remove Stingscourger? I played Sting for a long time, until I recently realised that except against S&T there are always cards I'd rather play than Sting. He now seems more like a 1-of sideboard card to me. And there is not many S&T decks in my meta, ofc this depends on your playing environment.

For the other two slots (to have 6 removals, ergo 3 Tarfires) I'd remove 1 MWM and 1 Chieftain from your list.

Give Tarfire a chance, maybe test it online and decide if it's any improvement for you or not.

P.S. Talking about splash, I am a big fan of white splash. Rest in Peace is insane card nowadays and Wear//Tear is also brilliant. Black offers interesting cards like Perish, but since we lose to equipment and grave-exploiting decks, white seems more appropriate to me.

[mrblueduck]

I played quite a bit of goblins this last 3 weeks, playing in 2 SCGs Legacy opens, the SCG Invitational, and a monthly Legacy 1k at Channel Fireball. I figured you guys would appreciate a brief recap of how things went.

1k at Channel Fireball.
List of the event:

1 Drops
4 Goblin Lackey
4 AEther Vial
2 Lightning Bolt

2 Drops
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Mogg War Marshal
3 Warren Instigator
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Gempalm Incinerator

3 Drops
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Blood Moon

4 Drops
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Goblin Ringleader

5 Drops
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Land
5 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
2 Plateau
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn

Side Board
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 Sudden Demise
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Raging River
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Goblin Settler
SB: 1 Anarchy
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist

This was a very similar list I posted a few weeks ago. The field is usually around 40 people and pretty soft, so felt I could experiment a little here.

Rd1 W
12 Post (2-1)
Game one was a tad rough, and lost with a slower vial oriented opening. With the knowledge of what I was playing, Settler and Blood moon were beatings and was able to win the next two relatively easily.

Rd2 W
Goblins (2-0)
Drew a fair share of Gempalms, and went for value ringleaders since I wasn't running sharpshooter nor Krenko.

Rd3 W
UW Miracles (1-0)
He came in with a game loss and I knew what he was playing going in. Was a pretty easy and quick win.

Rd4 L
UW Miracles (0-2)
A good match up that was a tad unlucky. Ran into 2 Termunus and then a miracle entreat on turn 5-6 both games.

Rd5 W
Goblins (2-0)
A local player who always plays goblins, but is pretty bad. Doesn't really understand how to use wastelands or what to fetch with Matrons.

Rd 6 Draw

Top 8
Burn (1-2) L
With no Zuran Orb, a shakier landbase, and multiple fetches I know I am not favored on the draw. I get very lucky to win game 2, but should have won games 1 and 3. Just how it goes sometimes, and finished with a disappointing top 8.

Blood moon in the main was pretty bad, and the sideboard needed work. I liked the idea of Sudden demise and Raging River, but they were way to narrow. Pyrokinesis was just so much better. I would have to come up with something else for the River, and I did for the next event.

Next up was the Legacy SCG Oakland
1k at Channel Fireball.
List of the event:

1 Drops
4 Goblin Lackey
4 AEther Vial
2 Lightning Bolt

2 Drops
1 Stingscourger
1 Mogg War Marshal
3 Warren Instigator
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Gempalm Incinerator

3 Drops
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Chieftain

4 Drops
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Settler

5 Drops
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander

Land
4 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
2 Plateau
1 Badlands
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn

Side Board
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 REB
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist

I went 5-3 with my last loss playing for what I thought was top 16. It ended up being 17 or 18th, but cashed at like 40th anyways. I don't remember all of my wins, but my loses were to Dark Maverick, Charbelcher, and a very close round 8 lose to Sneak N' Show.

I wasn't thrilled with my Massacre SB plan, and ended up switching for the LV events. I ended up 2-0ing the TNN Legacy decks without drawing it anyways. This was my final list, and I am still happy with it afterwards:

1 Drops
4 Goblin Lackey
4 AEther Vial
2 Lightning Bolt

2 Drops
1 Stingscourger
1 Mogg War Marshal
3 Warren Instigator
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Gempalm Incinerator

3 Drops
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Chieftain

4 Drops
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Settler

5 Drops
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

6 Drops
Pyrokinesis

Land
5 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
2 Plateau
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn

Side Board
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 REB
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Anarchy

Invitational
Rd5
UWR Owen Delver (2-0) W
Two main deck tuktuk scrappers dominated this matchup.

Rd6
UWR Owen Delver (1-2) L
I am able to battle both Batterskull and Jitte in so many matchups, but a TNN are a low life total usually puts me away, and does so again.

Rd7
Enchantress (2-1) W
This match up was awesome. Game 1 I had no idea what he was playing, but a turn two Thalia was able to help win with a slow start. Game two, he was able to race a turn 4 a settler lock with Thalia backup. He was able to cast one spell aturn to draw 3 cards, and after I bottomed anarchy off a ringleader I knew I couldn't really win. Game 3, I had thalia with a setter lock once again. I ended up casting Anarchy, which is pretty much always GG against enchantress.

Rd8
TNN Bant (1-1-1) D
This was a hard match up, lots of equipment, with multiple Jittes and TNN. Kiki was able to provide so much card advantage that I was able to race multiple TNN and a host of equipment. Game 3 drew after he replayed another Jitte after the first one got scrapped, and I was looking for answers. We both finished 3-4-1. Not good enough for day 2.

I ran the list back for the Legacy two days later.

Rd1
Storm (2-1) W
Thalia, Port, and Setter. A good team.

Rd2
Storm (2-1) W
I win game 1 on the draw on a mull to 4. Thalia, Settler and Port , with Pyroblast and mindbreak trap backup cleanup the easiest win I have all tournament game 3.

Rd3
Miracles(2-0) W
A very good player known for his play on SCG with Miracles. I kept a very slow hand with too much land, perfect for this matchup. And in game 2, I was able to create the settle lock, Kiki + Settler and created a scoop.

Rd4
Elves (1-2) L
Game 1 is very difficult to win. One of your worse match ups. You just cant interact fast enough. Game 2 canonist provided a beating, and Game 3, a timely prokineiss cleared up his board and nearly emptied his hand. Scavenging Ooze was able to hold the board, and the turn before I killed him, he drew Natural Order to win. Ugh.

Rd5
Esper TNN (2-0)W
Game 2 I was facing down Jitte, Batterskull, and Academy Ruins. I wasn't entirely sure how I was going to win, but knew scrapping his equipment was a start. I guess he forgot to use his Ruins until it was too late, and I barely won after a wrath and some TNN.

Rd6
RUG + TNN (0-2) L
Drew very poorly and found myself facing a turn 3 TNN.

Rd 7
Omnitell (2-1) W
Lose game one, but Thalia and Settler let me win game 2 and 3.

Rd 8
RUG (0-2) L
I feel like this is a solid matchup, but couldn't get anything going. No land game 1, too much game 2. Nothing too unusual.

Rd 9
UW TNN Control (1-2) L
Facing down both Jitte and a Batterskull, was able to scrap his Jitte, and almost raced his Skull. These games are just such a grind, and game 3 a turn 4 humility basically ended the game for me. I boarded in Anarchy and took it out g3 after not seeing enough white. Ops.

Pretty disappointing overall, but I am very happy with the list. Lost last round playing for a min-cash. Won alot of very bad matchups and lost some easier ones.
MVPS: Settler. Geeeeez, I knew this card was the real deal, but wow it over preformed. I Kiki-settler locked multiple games up, and it was the best card not named Thalia or Lackey in my storm matchups.
LVPS: Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge. Moon was dazed both times it would of been game ending, and Bridge only came in one matchup all weekend. Although it did instantly win me the game, not exactly the card I was to devote 2 slots to.

[max_goblin]

Round 3 vs some random red homebrew (2-0)

Now that I was in the bean bracket, I was faced with a guy piloting a non tested deck. It had maindeck chalice, trinisphere, and blood moon, none of which I really cared about that much. The rest was double sided red werewolf guys that were way too slow for goblins. There isn't much to say because he scooped pretty quickly both games.

-.-

If you dont know the deck dont say that. I have this deck and is pretty sad someone saying it is a "random red homebrew".
It is called Werewolf Stompy, or, All in Red. Its is based on Dragon Stompy, basically, its a deck oriented to win against heavy combo fields and decks with 3 or more colors, using hate MD, Chalice, Trinisphere and also Blood moon, with a lot of ramp (ancient tomb e city of traitors) that gives the deck a good start, usually, followed by a good beater.
Is sad to say, but the deck is really not finding any good results, against goblins it has a really bad match up, cavern and vial cancels the trinisphres e chalices, Blood Moon is useless.. so yes, he cant beat you, usually.
But is a fun deck =]
I love red decks, and try to play all that I can =]

Btw, sorry to hear about your report, sometimes goblins just dont work, i really dont know..
Oh, another thing, have you guys the feeling that blade decks are an issue nowadays?

[fashion]

-.-

If you dont know the deck dont say that. I have this deck and is pretty sad someone saying it is a "random red homebrew".
It is called Werewolf Stompy, or, All in Red. Its is based on Dragon Stompy, basically, its a deck oriented to win against heavy combo fields and decks with 3 or more colors, using hate MD, Chalice, Trinisphere and also Blood moon, with a lot of ramp (ancient tomb e city of traitors) that gives the deck a good start, usually, followed by a good beater.
Is sad to say, but the deck is really not finding any good results, against goblins it has a really bad match up, cavern and vial cancels the trinisphres e chalices, Blood Moon is useless.. so yes, he cant beat you, usually.
But is a fun deck =]
I love red decks, and try to play all that I can =]

Btw, sorry to hear about your report, sometimes goblins just dont work, i really dont know..
Oh, another thing, have you guys the feeling that blade decks are an issue nowadays?

jup dragon stompy is asome!!!!!
i have played for 2 years and i luv it t 1 bloodmoon is normaly scoop vs esperstoneblade/jund/junk/ all 3 collor decks its killing



past sunday i have played a smal tourny, 3-3-1
macth 1 vs 12post
g1 on the play lacky into warchief into double piledriver backed up with a ringelader gg
port and thalia (g2) dit the trick.
1-0-0

match 2 vs tezzerator
2 verry long games witch resulted i a draw krenko did the trick

1-0-1

match 3 u-r young pyromancer
game 1
lacky conected -into chieftain
next i drew a second tarfire used them both on 2 flipped delvers gg!
game 2 he was just to fast bolted down and beated down
game 3 god like openings hand turn 4 gg !

2-0-1

game 4 shardless bug (blegh)
this was my badest 2 games hey ansewerd all my treads it was a hummiliation
2 losses
how do we play against this???????
2-1-1

game 5 D&T
i love this matchup its always a close call noting specials happend but i did loose game 3 with a difference of 1 life
it was a great match.

2/2/1

game 6
vs vial knights with stoneforge an mom
2 verry dissapointing games lost all my gobbo,s due first strike hey maked twice the kille with hero of the bladehold

2/3/1

game 7 vs burn
nothing special to say sward the board with gobbo,s gg

3/3/1

my deck:
http://www.nedermagic.nl/deck_item.asp?deckid=123173

next i want to try the winstigator list with 3 x mox i have seen a lot of control blue based decks so i think i can use extra speed (mox an winstigator) and i will bring my tarfire count to 4 because it was a game changer for me in alomst every game
ill keep the white splash
take out the skirk/tuktuk/sharpshooter, tarfire deals with stuff ;) just keep them from equiping a jitte!

[Sandro95]

Hi everyone! I went 3-1 today, resulting in third place (11 people playing)

R1 Maverick (2-0)
G1 I have lackey, he has GSZ for Dryad Arbor. I have wasteland and he is stuck on one land with lackey connecting.
G2 I keep a slow hand because I have a lot of cards that are good against him in the long game, Sharpshooter, Krenko, Ringleader, Chieftain. He gets a mom online but no real clock, I'm able to take it out with sharpshooter + gempalm.

R2 BUG control (1-2)
I win G1, then keep a sketchy hand G2, and lose G3 with a decent hand.

R3 ANT (2-1)
G1 He goes off quickly.
G2 He mulligans and I play a Cabal Therapy while going Vial > MWM > Warchief. I have a Chalice of the Void in hand but choose not to show it to him as he had only two cards. He manages to Tendrils for 10, going up to 16, but I draw and Vial in Boartusk Liege and swing for 8.
G3 Chalice wins the game. The thing is, my opponent showed me how he could have beat it if had played around it earlier by playing his lotus petal t1. Not giving my opponent the information payed off here. :)

R3 TES

G1 He combos t2. (2-1)
G2 I mulligan to five. A chalice on 0 makes him unable to do much as he's stuck on one land and has to discard eot for several turns.
G3 I keep a hand with Chalice, though a bit of a slow one. Then I draw the second Chalice and it's game. :)

Thoughts on the deck:
Chalice shined, and I like playing four, as you want them early and don't mind having several copies versus most deck you bring it in against.
Boartusk Liege was good, as another card that impacts the board. I could see it beeing good if people are packing Plagues to fight TNN. On that note I think people playing answers to TNN in the form of Zealous Persecution and Golgari Charm makes Chieftain a better choice (I play the three-two split with warchief). I think the WW is nice to have versus TNN, though otherwise, Tarfire is usually better. I like the split for now. The same holds true for Krenko and SGC. Also, I would like to try a second Scrapper in the sideboard sometime. I would like one more red source in the deck, although that would mean cutting a port or going to 24 lands. It's not a huge problem though, just something to think about.

[prateta]

Hi everyone! I went 3-1 today, resulting in third place (11 people playing)

R1 Maverick (2-0)
G1 I have lackey, he has GSZ for Dryad Arbor. I have wasteland and he is stuck on one land with lackey connecting.
G2 I keep a slow hand because I have a lot of cards that are good against him in the long game, Sharpshooter, Krenko, Ringleader, Chieftain. He gets a mom online but no real clock, I'm able to take it out with sharpshooter + gempalm.

R2 BUG control (1-2)
I win G1, then keep a sketchy hand G2, and lose G3 with a decent hand.

R3 ANT (2-1)
G1 He goes off quickly.
G2 He mulligans and I play a Cabal Therapy while going Vial > MWM > Warchief. I have a Chalice of the Void in hand but choose not to show it to him as he had only two cards. He manages to Tendrils for 10, going up to 16, but I draw and Vial in Boartusk Liege and swing for 8.
G3 Chalice wins the game. The thing is, my opponent showed me how he could have beat it if had played around it earlier by playing his lotus petal t1. Not giving my opponent the information payed off here. :)

R3 TES

G1 He combos off t2. (2-1)
G2 I mulligan to five. A chalice on 0 makes him unable to do much as he's stuck on one land and has to discard eot for several turns.
G3 I keep a hand with Chalice, though a bit of a slow one. Then I draw the second Chalice and it's game. :)

Thoughts on the deck:
Chalice shined, and I like playing four, as you want them early and don't mind having several copies versus most deck you bring it in against.
Boartusk Liege was good, as another card that impacts the board. I could see it beeing good if people are packing Plagues to fight TNN. On that note I think people playing answers to TNN in the form of Zealous Persecution and Golgari Charm makes Chieftain a better choice (I play the three-two split with warchief). I think the WW is nice to have versus TNN, though otherwise, Tarfire is usually better. I like the split for now. The same holds true for Krenko and SGC. Also, I would like to try a second Scrapper in the sideboard sometime. I would like one more red source in the deck, although that would mean cutting a port or going to 24 lands. It's not a huge problem though, just something to think about.

hello, thanks for the report :-) would you mind posting your decklist here?

[Sandro95]

hello, thanks for the report :-) would you mind posting your decklist here?

Sure! Here's the list I played.

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Goblin Piledriver
2 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander

1 Tarfire
1 Warren Weirding
4 Gempalm Incinerator

2 Badlands
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Engineered Plague
1 Perish
1 Shattering Spree
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Red Elemental Blast

I like the maindeck, the sideboard is still a work in progress though. The one REB seems a bit random, A second Scrapper may very well be better than the Shattering Spree, and I would like to have some graveyard hate. :)

[Anvil]

Do you guys think duals and fetches are a real auto include? I don't have that much cash to dish out on lands, so maybe graven cairns, blood crypt are more affordable alternatives?

[Sandro95]

Do you guys think duals and fetches are a real auto include? I don't have that much cash to dish out on lands, so maybe graven cairns, blood crypt are more affordable alternatives?

If you can't afford duals and fetches, there are other options. You could play mono red. Otherwise I would recommend playing Auntie's Hovel, then maybe 1 Blood Crypt and whatever red fetches you can get your hands on. :)

[prateta]

Bloodstained Mire are the budget fetches for us right now, since zendikar fetches went through the roof with modern.

Sent from my Lenovo S920_ROW using Tapatalk

[fashion]

Do you guys think duals and fetches are a real auto include? I don't have that much cash to dish out on lands, so maybe graven cairns, blood crypt are more affordable alternatives?

Mono red issnt bad;)
Though i recommend port/wastland.

[prateta]

I like the maindeck, the sideboard is still a work in progress though. The one REB seems a bit random, A second Scrapper may very well be better than the Shattering Spree, and I would like to have some graveyard hate. :)

Well, since you're running the black splash, I'd try Leyline of the Void or Relic of Progenitus. Rest in Peace is the best grave hate available right now imo, but that would require different splash for you. Since I'm playing the W splash, Wear // Tear is obvious artifact removal for me, for your black splash I'd try adding to the count of Scrappers as you suggested.

About Shattering Spree - I experimented with 3 Wear // Tear and 1 Shattering Spree, because my meta involves affinity and MUD - and there's nothing as sweet as shattering half of their board just the turn before they wanted to make the lethal attack. It's also kind of difficult to counter thanks to the replicate :)

Btw, why the Snow-Covered Mountains? I've noticed many time people play them even when there are no cards in their deck to use the snow-covered feature. Is it just pimp or is there something more sophisticated behind? Like confusing an opponent that there might be coming some super snow-powered dude?

[Sandro95]

Well, since you're running the black splash, I'd try Leyline of the Void or Relic of Progenitus. Rest in Peace is the best grave hate available right now imo, but that would require different splash for you. Since I'm playing the W splash, Wear // Tear is obvious artifact removal for me, for your black splash I'd try adding to the count of Scrappers as you suggested.

About Shattering Spree - I experimented with 3 Wear // Tear and 1 Shattering Spree, because my meta involves affinity and MUD - and there's nothing as sweet as shattering half of their board just the turn before they wanted to make the lethal attack. It's also kind of difficult to counter thanks to the replicate :)

Btw, why the Snow-Covered Mountains? I've noticed many time people play them even when there are no cards in their deck to use the snow-covered feature. Is it just pimp or is there something more sophisticated behind? Like confusing an opponent that there might be coming some super snow-powered dude?

For me the Snow-Covered Mountains are just for pimp. I used to play leylines, and I like them. I might go back to them, although then I should propably play four. Relic, Grafdigger's Cage and Surgical/Extirpate are possible candidates also. Thanks for your advice! i find it very informative, and I'll try to implement some changes once I am at home and have my deck with me. :)

[Anvil]

If you can't afford duals and fetches, there are other options. You could play mono red. Otherwise I would recommend playing Auntie's Hovel, then maybe 1 Blood Crypt and whatever red fetches you can get your hands on. :)

Well, I have wastes and ports ( from before I got married ), so those are automatically included. For the rest I have 2 graven cairns, 1 autie's hovel, 2-3 crypts and 1 bloodstained mire.

Would sulfurous springs do any good?

[Nelis]

If money is an issue I would go for mono red and try to trade those BR lands for 4 cavern of Souls.

[Anvil]

If money is an issue I would go for mono red and try to trade those BR lands for 4 cavern of Souls.

Already have 1 cavern trough trading on NM ( since you're from NL ;) ), so those are slowly but surely coming in.

So the general consensus is that straight up duals are not a must have, but it's just a little harder without them?

[ScatmanX]

So the general consensus is that straight up duals are not a must have, but it's just a little harder without them?
Nop. As you can see on the Tournament Report session on the OP, many of us have the possibility to splash, but decide often times (even in my Nationals last month) to run monored, because it is, sometimes, the best option.

[jrw1985]

I'm thinking of cutting 2 Caverns and running 2 more basic Mountains instead.

What are your thoughts on the necessity of Caverns?

[Blakroc]

I would never go below three unless the meta changes. Cavern negates Daze and FoW from thresh and other decks, so there is virtual card advantage there because the counters are dead cards. Also, Cavern allows you to play Lackey with a Chalice on one.

[ScatmanX]

I'm thinking of cutting 2 Caverns and running 2 more basic Mountains instead.

What are your thoughts on the necessity of Caverns?
I wasn't running them befora that ridiculous Top8 at SCG INVI with 4-5 SnT decks. Right now I'm with Blakroc.

[Avatara]

I would never go below three unless the meta changes. Cavern negates Daze and FoW from thresh and other decks, so there is virtual card advantage there because the counters are dead cards. Also, Cavern allows you to play Lackey with a Chalice on one. Getting your early game lackey/warchief countered by a fow = card advantage. Getting dazed is tempo advantage. Decks running counters were never a problem for Goblins. The strength of CoS is pushing through mid game card advantage and silver bullets.

You should also weight the disadvantages of CoS.. like getting it Wasted or PoP-ed.

I personally dislike running four CoS except vs combo decks with counters.

[prateta]

Occasional Daze and Fow won't stop us. I play 4x CoS because of Chalice and CounterTop. Hell ain't it sweet to set Chalice @1, disable enemy and still play your lackeys, vials, tarfires, prospectors... ;-)

Also it's an autowin against countertop decks.

Sent from my Lenovo S920_ROW using Tapatalk

[Nelis]

Occasional Daze and Fow won't stop us. I play 4x CoS because of Chalice and CounterTop. Hell ain't it sweet to set Chalice @1, disable enemy and still play your lackeys, vials, tarfires, prospectors... ;-)

Also it's an autowin against countertop decks.

Sent from my Lenovo S920_ROW using Tapatalk

You can't play Tarfire with Caverns, it says creature spells.

[prateta]

You can't play Tarfire with Caverns, it says creature spells.

Yeah sorry, didn't realise it at this moment :-) just meant goblin 1 drops.

[jimmythegreek]

What was the overall consensus on sparksmith? I'll be playing at my local store tomorrow and I'd like to test one in place of the fourth gempalm.

[OlegtheSuper]

GPT Paris second place 21 december 2013
1t 2-1 uwr delver
2t 2-0 RUG
3t 2-0 reanimator
4t 1-2 grixis pyromant
5t ID
1/8 2-1 UWR delver
1/4 S&T 2-0
final 1-2 UWR delver

list
4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Plateau
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills

SB: 2 Confusion in the Ranks
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 WearTear
SB: 3 Pyrokinesis

[jrw1985]

GPT Paris second place 21 december 2013
1t 2-1 uwr delver
2t 2-0 RUG
3t 2-0 reanimator
4t 1-2 grixis pyromant
5t ID
1/8 2-1 UWR delver
1/4 S&T 2-0
final 1-2 UWR delver

list
4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Plateau
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills

SB: 2 Confusion in the Ranks
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 WearTear
SB: 3 Pyrokinesis

Congrats! I love your list. 2 TSH looks great. Really well done.

What happened in the finals?

[GoblinSettler]

Congrats! I love your list. 2 TSH looks great. Really well done.

What happened in the finals?

Also interested in hearing about the reanimator match. Was Relic and a Stingscourger enough to get there?

[OlegtheSuper]

Congrats! I love your list. 2 TSH looks great. Really well done.

What happened in the finals?

In last game in the final I mull to 2 cards(

In match vs reanim in first he got gamelose, then mull to 5 then I won in 4th turn