[PaperTiger]CounterTez

[bruizar]

CounterTez
Original Post
This is a Paper Tiger, meaning zero testing has gone into this. This is a first draft that I´d like some feedback on. I don't claim this to be a good deck, but I´m trying to look for ways how Tezzeret 2.0 can be good outside of artifact centric decks.

So what exactly is it? It's a blend between Tezerator and CounterTop.

Update
Okay, so the deck plays out well. After some tweaks and exploring the best direction for the deck, I made a decent list.
Pending issues: Still debating whether or not to go for red splash or not. Time to test the deck first

Why is this deck good?

Moxen enable turn one Counter Balance and Lim-Dul´s Vault.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is nuts
Lim-Dul's Vault is an instant tutor that allows you to plan ahead and occasionally tutors for an entire combo package. Super synergistic with Counterbalance.
Easy to set up one of the many combo's available with Lim-Dul's Vault


There are several routes to victory:



Thopter Foundry & Sword of the Meek - Swarm with tokens
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - 5/5 Beats
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas & Darksteel Citadel - 5/5 Indestructible Beats
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas & Thopter Foundry- 5/5 Flying Beats
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Lethal Tendrils (Usually in conjunction with Thopter Foundry & Sword of the Meek, but can also be achieved with aggressive digging and Trinket Mage recursion.)
Counterbalance & Sensei's Divining Top - Softlock
Counterbalance & Lim-Dul's Vault - Hard counter and combo-setup, momentum shift
Jace, the Mind Sculptor & Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Animate your artifact, Bounce his creature-gambit, momentum shift
Counterbalance & Brainstorm - Chance Counter
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Softlock and ultimate
Jace, the Mind Sculptor & Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Remove Null Rod
Lim-Dul's Vault & Academy Ruins - Set's up E.E recursion
Trinket Mage & Engineered Explosives - Board sweeper
Trinket Mage & Darksteel Citadel - Mana Ramp if you haven't made a land drop already. Sets up Tezzeret beat down plan.
Trinket Mage & Mox Opal - Color Ramp if you made a land drop already.
List of Lim-Dul's Vault Combo stacks:
Trinket Mage, Academy Ruins
Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top
Thopter Foundry, Sword of the Meek
Darksteel Citadel, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Engineered Explosives, Academy Ruins
Thopter Foundry, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Counterbalance, Trinket Mage




MATCHUP ANALYSIS
coming soon

SAMPLE HANDS
coming soon

MOST RECENT LIST



//Mana:23
1 Swamp
2 Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Academy Ruins
3 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
2 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond

//Planeswalker & Creatures:7
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Trinket Mage

//CA & Search:8
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Brainstorm

//Counters/Disruption:11
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
3 Thoughtseize

//Artifacts:8
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek

//Removal:3
3 Diabolic Edict

//Sideboard:15
3 Engineered Plague
x Vindicate
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Perish
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle



Color Distribution
Blue Count:22
Black Count:15
Colorless Count:3

Color Weighting
:u::u::6
:wb::u::2
:u::b::7

Total Artifact Count: 17

Converted Mana Costs
:1: = 10
:2: = 10
:3: = 2
:4: = 5
:5: = 4

Mana Base
Blue Mana Sources: 19
Black Mana Sources: 16
White Mana Sources: 12
Colorless Mana Sources: 2


Single Card Explanation:


Thopter Foundry (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=183017) and Sword of the Meek (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=126215)
This combo doesn´t only swarm the board with artfact creatures, it helps make Tezzeret´s ultimate lethal immediately. That said, you don´t require Sword of the Meek to win. If you play a Thopter Foundry and have Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas in play, you can turn a couple of disposable artifacts into 1/1 Flying Thopters and boost them to 5/5 flyers. This is often enough to win very quickly, but if you don't have a Tezzeret, Sword of the Meek can win just as good. If your opponent can alpha strike you if you attack, just assemble the combo and use Tezzeret´s ultimate. It´s really easy to assemble with Lim-Dul´s Vault, so don´t worry about getting a 3 card combo online in these situations.



Engineered Explosives (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=50139)
With Moxen it's easy to cast it on anything higher than 2. Trinket Mage tutors it up. Recursion with Academy Ruins. You can easily play it for 1 and 3, though E.E. for 2 can hurt if you have Counterbalance on the table. Don't worry about Thopter Foundry. You don't need it and if you do, you can Academy Ruins it.



Lim-Dûl's Vault (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159832)
If you have Counterbalance online, this becomes a hard counter. Unlike Enlightened Tutor, this card can find anything you need at any time. It's not even a Counter with Counterbalance, it's a Counter Attack. You can search for a Force of Will to counter your opponent's Force of Will, and after he passes the turn, you draw a Force of Will. On top of that, you also guarantee that you will be topdecking better than your opponent for the next several turns. This is insane and completely swinging the tides in your favor. Because It´s not limited just to artifacts and enchantments, you get to tutor for Planeswalkers, creatures and Academy Ruins too, which is incredible. It also increases the likelyhood of seeing sideboard hate in game 2 and 3. The most nutsiest thing about Lim-Dul's Vault is that it randomly tutors for your entire package! I've had games go: Turn 1 Land, Mox, EOT Lim-Dul's Vault, stack Counterbalance and Top. Play Counterbalance, Next turn play Top. I've also had the same thing wih the Thopter Foundry Combo. It's just completely unfair to be able to get any card you need. Sometimes it works as 2 Enlightened Tutors, and you can curve out your draws insanely well by stacking fetchlands under the last bomb of the pile. This is the best card in the deck together with Tezzeret.



Thoughtseize (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=145969)
Removing creatures is relevant. I think this is better than a cheap Counterspell. If you play Duress and let their creature resolve, you will lose even more life. In the sideboard I'm running some Duress to deal with combo.



Trinket Mage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209040)
Get's your Top online after you resolve Counterbalance, but also gets a SB Needle for Aether Vials, an Engineered Explosives to deal with the board, a Mox Opal to get sunburst going, or a Darksteel Citadel if you need an indestructible Juggernaut. SB Tormod´s Crypt for graveyard dependent strategies. Perhaps Nihil Spellbomb is better for recursion with Academy Ruins. The reason for Nihil Spellbomb over Tormod's Crypt is that Academy Ruins forces you to essentially 'skip a draw', Nihil Spellbomb solves this issue by being able to draw a card upon activation. Also, Tezzeret can grab the card you put on your deck with Academy Ruins so you're not delayed. Trinket Mage really helps you ramp quickly. It´s not weird to go turn 1 Land Mox, turn 2 land Trinket Mage Mox or Artifact Land. Trinket Mage helps you curve out at 4 so you can afford your Planeswalkers.



Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214065)
This card is incredibly strong! It makes Jace look like crap.

It can cantrip the turn it comes into play, and grab a mox so you still have some mana open for Sensei´s Divining Top
It protects itself immediately, by making a 5/5 blocker the turn it comes into play. The second turn, you will have a sizable 10 power army
It can gain life. With artifact lands, moxen and trinket mage, you will be able to gain a lot of life with hardly any effort put into casting artifacts. I think you will surprise yourself with how much you can drain, even though this deck is not a typical artifact deck.
The ultimate is a great finisher in a stall.
Dropping a Sword of the Meek isn't necessary in this deck. If you draw a Thopter Foundry, making 2 Tokens is enough to kill with Tezzeret. 2 5/5 Flyers should end the game quickly, and you have enough disposable artifacts.
It can turn equipment cards into 5/5's. Although you generally don't want to give your opponent 5/5's, it can be an important trick to disable swords on flyers.




Jace, the Mind Sculptor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=195297)

Well, we all know the power of jace, so there's not much to say about it. This guy pales in comparison to Tezzeret, but he is still an important addition to the deck. Mainly because he interacts with Tezzeret so well. All abilities except his ultimate are very relevant.

He locks your opponent out of top decks.
He bounces creatures. This can be very important, because if you have Jace and Tezzeret, you can create a 5/5 and bounce a creature every turn, this greatly increases your board position.
He bounces Trinket Mage, so you can get an extra Engineered Explosives or dump some artifact mana on the board which could be just the mana/artifact ramp you needed. Think of Tezzeret's ultimate, but also high Explosives.
Tezzeret can animate Null Rod, Jace can bounce it, then swarm some Thopters.
You can dig really fast using Jace's Brainstorm and Tezzeret's Lim-Dul's Vault.
You can put back Artifacts with Jace's brainstorm, then use Tezzeret to look at the top 5, grab the artifact and put the rest on the bottom. This way I can ancestrall recall myself in a pretty busted way.



Didn't Make the Cut:

Thirst for Knowledge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218580)
Thirst for Knowledge is a great card. It's a 3 CC Counterbalance flip, it's great card advantage and it allows you to get rid of excess moxen, tops or artifact lands. I simply don't have the space to play it, and every time I would play one EOT, I would rather play Lim-Dul's Vault, b ecause it guarantees a bomb the next turn. Roiughly a third of the deck is artifacts, so I should always hit something.

Perhaps a splash for red with Goblin Welders and Wurmcoil Engine would be a good direction for the deck, but then Firespout really has to go, because it already hits my Trinket Mage and my Dark Confidant.



Firespout (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=153314)
At first, I had a red splash for Firespout. This is still possible, but the list is UB right now. If you opt for the red splash, you can run sideboard Red Elemental Blasts to give you an edge against other control decks. Firespout is great against fast aggro decks like Merfolk, Zoo and Goblins, although Merfolk will likely know how to play around it. Moxen make it pretty affordable and a lone Volcanic Island should be enough to get by. Remember, trinket mage can get a mox opal or mox diamond if you're out of colored mana. Right now, I'm simply using Engineered Explosives as my removal of choice.



Dark Confidant (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=83771)
There are a lot of things that hurt. In fact, too much. Force of Will, Tezzeret, Jace, Thoughtseize and Trinket Mage being the worst offenders. Although you can offset the lifeloss with Tezzeret's ultimate and Thopters, I simply don't see a place for Dark Confidant at the moment. This is in part because 3 Tezzerets and 2 Jaces provide enough, and better card draw than confidant.I think, with Lim-Dul's Vault and Sensei's Top you could get away with it. Lim-Dul's Vault can search for a stack with your desired card and a land, so that you don't get any damage. It's definitely possible to run Dark Confidant, but I'd rather have Trinket Mage, which does something the turn it comes into play and gives you value even if they Swords to Plowshare it.



Phylactery Lich (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205034)
This guy can come down on turn 2. He dodges sweepers, burn and some removal, but his mana cost is too much to play him effectively. He also doesn't dodge Diabolic Edict and Swords to Plowshares). His indestructible body is good at taking care of creatures, he doesn't up my artifact count and I already have Darksteel Citadel which I can fetch with Tezzeret, Lim-Dul's Vault and Trinket Mage. If you put a lich counter on Darksteel Citadel, you´re golden. However, the amount of selection this deck has makes Thopter Foundry a better deal. Being able to use +1 tezzeret to dig for thopter foundry is better, and thopter foundry has better synergy with Tezzeret as well and it also gives 5/5 Flyers in case you run into Moat.



Chrome Mox (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=47446)
Although it helps power out Counterbalance on turn one, and helps Metalcraft, you don´t want to trade business for speed.



Change log



February 11, 2011

-2 Counterspell
-1 Dark Confidant
-1 Thoughtseize
+4 Brainstorm





February 12, 2011

-3 Dark Confidant
-3 Thirst For Knowledge
-2 Firespout
+3 Lim/Dul´s Vault
+4 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Island





February 12, 2011

-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Trinket Mage
+1 Lim-Dul's Vault
+3 Diabolic Edict
+3 Phylactery Lich
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Relic of Progenitus
-1 Pithing Needle





February 12, 2011

-3 Phylactery Lich
+2 Thopter Foundry
+1 Sword of the Meek

[bruizar]

Reserved

[Iranon]

I'd play Brainstorm over some of the disruption. finding a Counterbalance is good, being used as a probably-counter if you have one out is good, the option to find a threat is good.

[bruizar]

What would you cut for it? This is the best cut I can think of.

-2 Counterspell
-1 Dark confidant
-1 Thoughtseize

+4 Brainstorm

EDIT:
Just to talk about Tezzeret 2.0 a litte bit more. I´d like to compare him to Elspeth, who also sees play.

He´s a 2UB drop
She´s a 2WW drop

He makes 5/5´s, losing them costs an artifact, but you will kill something
She makes extra 1/1´s, losing them costs nothing, but they won´t kill much

He can capitalize on a creature filled board as long as you have artifacts
She can capitalize on a creature filled board only when Humility or Moat hit

He can turn a clear board into a win in 2-3 turns.
She can turn a clear board into a win in a lot of turns.

She can win through Moat, by using her flying pump ability -> requires no set up, 5 turn clock (4/4 flying)
He can win through Moat, by using his ultimate -> requires set up, but once set up immediately seals the game. 5 artifacts = 10 life and 4 loyalty. This means you need 8 loyalty to ultimate twice. because he starts on 3 loyalty, this is a 5 turn clock. 10 artifacts is doable, because you have trinket mage, Dark Confidant, SDT, Jace and Brainstorm, and Tezzeret´s + ability can give you artifacts. You should be able to spam Moxen and artifact lands pretty quickly.

He can win through Ensnaring Bridge (In conjunction with Jace or by using his ultimate)
She can´t win through Ensnaring Bridge

She 'prevents damage' by chumping damage that would otherwise go to your head
He prevents damage by stalling your opponent, because he doesn't want to trade his creatures for yours. He also gains life through his ultimate.

If Elspeth sees play, I don´t see a reason why Tezz 2.0 can´t.

[forsmark]

I tested a few games with this thing and I must say I like where it is going. It's definitely a solid starting point. A few things that struck me while playing:

1) You are correct, Mox Diamond is super greedy with so few lands.
2) Mox Opal is awesome.
3) Tezz 2.0 is even more awesome.
4) Firespout (or the red splash as whole to be honest) seems out of place.
5) Dark Confidant hurts a lot in the deck. Between FoW, Tezz, Jace and even Trinket Mage and Thrist for Knowledge it is a major pain. In the few games I played (less than 5 admittedly) I experienced more than once that would have killed me if it wasn't for Top or that I couldn't play him out because my life total dwindled too fast.
6) Relic of Progenitus is not really worth it in the main, and neither is needle I think.
7) This deck screams "Splash white!!!". Seriously. Enlightened Tutor,Swords to Plowshares and the Thopter Combo is something I would strongly consider trying to get in. Along with that an Ensnaring Bridge. Jace and Tezz loves that.

Take it as you want, but that was my initial feelings playing the deck. Cheers.

- forsmark

[bruizar]

I tested a few games with this thing and I must say I like where it is going. It's definitely a solid starting point. A few things that struck me while playing:

1) You are correct, Mox Diamond is super greedy with so few lands.
It's incredibly hard to fix the mana base. I haven't found a solution for it yet.

2) Mox Opal is awesome.
Agreed

3) Tezz 2.0 is even more awesome.
Agreed

4) Firespout (or the red splash as whole to be honest) seems out of place.
Agreed, it's a very powerful card though. I feel like I will get trampled by zoo relying solely on Ensnaring Bridge, E.E. and Tezzeret, but that may be overreacting on my part

5) Dark Confidant hurts a lot in the deck. Between FoW, Tezz, Jace and even Trinket Mage and Thrist for Knowledge it is a major pain. In the few games I played (less than 5 admittedly) I experienced more than once that would have killed me if it wasn't for Top or that I couldn't play him out because my life total dwindled too fast.
Again, greed got the best of me. Playing black without Dark Confidant seems like a bad idea. I'm not sure whether to cut Confidant, or change the deck to support him.

6) Relic of Progenitus is not really worth it in the main, and neither is needle I think.
Agreed

7) This deck screams "Splash white!!!". Seriously. Enlightened Tutor,Swords to Plowshares and the Thopter Combo is something I would strongly consider trying to get in. Along with that an Ensnaring Bridge. Jace and Tezz loves that.
It's definitely a possibility, but again, what to cut? Here's a suggestion:

Fix manabase to support white
-1 Volcanic Island +1 Tundra
+1 Flooded Strand -1 Scalding Tarn

These suffer from dissynergy
-3 Dark confidant
-2 Firespout

This go into the sideboard
-1 Relic of Progenitus
-1 Pithing Needle

-1 Something else?

+1 Ensnaring Bridge
+2 Enlightened Tutor
+3 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Thoper Foundry
+1 Sword of the Meek

- forsmark

[Iranon]

@ Bruizar: sounds reasonable to me.

Something else: If your potentially-useless artifacts are as cheap as they are in this deck, I usually found Arcane Denial more attractive than Thirst for Knowledge. Not sure whether this applies here though... at first glance, both would seem slightly awkward in this deck.

[Mono_Thematic]

I've been working on a similar build, and after running a few games I definitely think you should run Etched Champion. Even w/o cranial plating he is amazing at keeping you alive, gets your artifact count up for Tezz's ultimate, and even survives your firespouts. With him in play your opp is going to have to commit highly to the board just to get through.
I'd cut the Thirst for Knowledge for him in a heart beat

EDIT: for fixing your mana: I've been using Talisman of Dominance in order to keep my non-basic land count low while keeping a high artifact count. It's worked really well for me.

[Eldarion]

bruizar: your -1 something else can be a trinket mage. you can also take out the other 2 trinket mages for 2 more enlightened tutors since they get you anything you want, basically, including assembling the thopter sword combo (and counterbalance-top!).

also Etched Champion instead of Thirst for Knowledge sounds really cool. with brainstorm, jace, and tezz, card draw shouldn't be a problem anyway. and the plus points of Tezz making a 5/5 pro all colors beater. :)

[forsmark]

bruizar: your -1 something else can be a trinket mage. you can also take out the other 2 trinket mages for 2 more enlightened tutors since they get you anything you want, basically, including assembling the thopter sword combo (and counterbalance-top!).

also Etched Champion instead of Thirst for Knowledge sounds really cool. with brainstorm, jace, and tezz, card draw shouldn't be a problem anyway. and the plus points of Tezz making a 5/5 pro all colors beater. :)

I think the blue count for FoW might get dangerously low if you do this. I am all for the white splash, but it's a diffucult deck to build I've found. You gotta strike the right balance between blue cards to support fow, room for the great white cards and still having enough artifacts for Tezz. With Tezz being blue and black, you'd also want to utilize the black color, however, I find it hard to really find black cards that are synergistic with the artifact shell.

[Mono_Thematic]

Just don't forget that you can't target Etched Champion with Tezz after you have metalcraft

[bruizar]

I don´t like Etched Champion. I don´t really see why I would need Etched Champion in the deck, I think he dilutes the plan. Turning him into a 5/5 is nice, but I think I would rather have 2 different bodies instead, so I wouldn´t have the time to animate him anyway. I think Darksteel Citadel is a much more effective plan, as it is free, uncounterable and indestructible too. It also doesn´t really eat slots, since I can trinket mage for it.

There are 2 distinct different routes to take with UB and UBW, so I will handle both seperately:

BLACK
Phylactery Lich - He can serve as the replacement of Tarmogoyf. It's painful that he can still get plowshared, but I think you just have to take that for granted. He gets a lot better with Darksteel Citadel in play. This build would require Trinket Mage so you can get indestructible zombies with some regularity. Perhaps I should also consider an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to make him easier to cast. Black can give me thopter sword combo.

Ideally, you want to do this:
Turn one Land Mox - Counterbalance or Sensei´s Divining Top or Thoughtseize
Turn two Trinket Mage for Darksteel Citadel
Turn three Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, animate Darksteel Citadel.
OR
Turn two Phylactery Lich

Black also gives me Lim Dul´s Vault. This could serve as a replacement for Enlightened Tutor. Lim Dul´s Vault is actually much better in conjunction with Counterbalance than Enlightened Tutor, because I will be a 100% sure to counter something and I get to stack my deck/dig for the cards I want.

WHITE
White brings me Swords to Plowshares, Enlightened Tutor, Terra Eternal and also the thopter sword combo (but easier to dig for with E.Tutor)

If I would replace Trinket Mage with Enlightened tutor, and cut Thirst for Knowledge, I slow down the deck tremendously. Trinket Mage puts the card in my hand, while being able to chump. Enlightened Tutor is card disadvantage, but it is still a very good card. I think Trinket Mage is especially strong because of the moxen I play. It enables me to play an extra spell that turn which speeds up the curve. Enlightened Tutor is very good with the combo finish of thopter/sword. If I go with Enlightened Tutor, I may want to test 1 Terra Eternal to turn all my lands indestructible. Enlightened Tutor is good with Counterbalance because it can serve as a semi-counterspell.

Phylactery Lich seems like a much better creature than Etched Champion. It would require me to stay UB, but I believe this wins much more games than having a 2/2 creature that´s incredibly hard to remove, but doesn´t really kill. Phylactery Lich is a threat that can only be dealt with using Swords to Plowshares or Diabolic Edict. Perhaps I would splash white for Swords to Plowshares and Vindicate, but nothing else I think.

[bruizar]

Okay, I think I have something good here.




//Mana:22
1 Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Academy Ruins
1 Vault of Whispers
3 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
2 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond

//Planeswalker & Creatures:10
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Phylactery Lich
2 Trinket Mage

//CA & Search:8
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Brainstorm

//Counters/Disruption:11
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
3 Thoughtseize

//Artifacts:5
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives

//Removal:4
4 Swords to Plowshares

//Sideboard:15
x Vindicate
x Ensnaring Bridge


Color Distribution
White Count: 4
Blue Count:22
Black Count:12
Colorless Count:3

Color Weighting
Double Blue:6
Triple Black:3
Black&Blue:6
Sunburst: 2
Total Artifact Count: 15

Converted Mana Costs
0 CC = 24
1 CC = 14
2 CC = 7
3 CC = 5
4 CC = 5
5 CC = 4

Mana Base
Blue Mana Sources: 19
Black Mana Sources: 16
White Mana Sources: 12
Colorless Mana Sources: 2


PENDING ISSUES

Phylactery Lich
This is not an issue. This card is a really big wall and another good win condition. I got the idea for Lich from the suggestion to run Etched Champion. For 3 CC, this guy is a lot bigger. He is slightly more vulnerable (plowshares, artifact removal) but the trinity of darksteel citadel + phylactery lich + tezzeret is game ending strong. Moxen and fetch help fix the mana cost. If you pop Engineered Explosives for three, this guy will stay on the board. This guy is also immune to Pernicious Deed IF you have him liched on Darksteel Citadel.

Lim-Dul's Vault or Enlightened Tutor
I´m unsure about Lim-Dul´s Vault and Enlightened Tutor. I am leaning Towards Lim-Dul´s Vault, to decrease my reliance on white mana, but a first turn E.Tutor into counterbalance could help the deck out in the early turns. I think E.Tutor is mainly good if you go Thopter Sword.

-Lim-Dul´s Vault is a hard counter with Counterbalance
-A tutor for any bomb I could need. It can get every card that Enlightened Tutor can plus more.
-It can help stack several turns of draws.
-It can get an academy ruins online for E.E. recursion
-It can get a Force of Will, Phylactery Lich, Tezzeret or Jace
-It can get Darksteel Citadel
-It is on color
-It is twice as slow as Enlightened Tutor
-Enlightened Tutor can be cast in response to a spell being played with Counterbalance, but it's not as good as Lim-Dul's Vault. I don't have a varied Artifact/Enchantment CC and E.Tutor allows me to trade the tutor for a spell and topdeck an artifact or enchantment. I have 0 and 1 mana artifacts. That just doesn't cut it. Lim-Dul's Vault can set up a counterspell while drawing several turns worth of bombs depending on the stack I get, allowing me to plan ahead much better than Enlightened Tutor would.


Thoughtseize & Daze
I am thinking of exchanging Thoughtseize for Daze. This is because I think my 2 CC slot is a little bit low and I still want to have a turn one play. With a mox out, I can hardcast Daze and still counter something on the play. Perhaps Duress / Thoughtseize should go in the sideboard against storm. Opening with a Seat of the Synod and no other source sucks with Daze.

Artifact Count and Swords to Plowshares
If I cut Swords to Plowshares, I would relieve some tension from my manabase. I could replace it for either Go for the Throat or Diabolic Edict but that would, like E.Tutor, slow my deck again. It would however also give me extra 2CC cards for Counterbalance. Perhaps, by keeping it UB I can up my artifact count by adding some Vault of Whispers and Seat of the Synods so that I can get more value out of Tezzeret Agent of Bolas.

[forsmark]

You can still play the thopter combo without white as Thopter Foundry can be paid with :u::b:.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion UB is the stronger version to play really. You get a much more stable mana base, and you can replace Enlightened Tutor with LDV and StP with either Smother, Go for the Throat or Ghastly Demise.

A card I am thinking for including somehow is Mishra's Factory. Should help the aggro matchup a bit providing an early blocker and can be an artifact for metalcraft and Tezz later on. Also, including Factory instead of say Lich, you get more lands making Mox Diamond way better. This of course begs the question if it's possible to include Wasteland + Crucible lock, but that I have no idea about.

EDIT:



Lim-Dul's Vault or Enlightened Tutor
I´m unsure about Lim-Dul´s Vault and Enlightened Tutor. I am leaning Towards Lim-Dul´s Vault, to decrease my reliance on white mana, but a first turn E.Tutor into counterbalance could help the deck out in the early turns. I think E.Tutor is mainly good if you go Thopter Sword.

-Lim-Dul´s Vault is a hard counter with Counterbalance
-A tutor for any bomb I could need. It can get every card that Enlightened Tutor can plus more.
-It can help stack several turns of draws.
-It can get an academy ruins online for E.E. recursion
-It can get a Force of Will, Phylactery Lich, Tezzeret or Jace
-It can get Darksteel Citadel
-It is on color
-It is twice as slow as Enlightened Tutor
-Enlightened Tutor can be cast in response to a spell being played with Counterbalance, but it's not as good as Lim-Dul's Vault. I don't have a varied Artifact/Enchantment CC and E.Tutor allows me to trade the tutor for a spell and topdeck an artifact or enchantment. I have 0 and 1 mana artifacts. That just doesn't cut it. Lim-Dul's Vault can set up a counterspell while drawing several turns worth of bombs depending on the stack I get, allowing me to plan ahead much better than Enlightened Tutor would.

I think the fact that LDV can "tutor" up anything is the all important thing here. Especially tutoring up Darksteel Citadel seems good. Also don't forget that LDV is blue itself, meaning it can be pitched to FoW!

I am gonna construct my UB list now and take it for a spin again.

[bruizar]

Hi Forsmark,

Thanks for your input and testing efforts. I appreciate it. I think I agree with going UB. There is plenty of spot removal in black. We can even pick the best converted mana cost for counterbalance depending on your local meta. We have these options

Slaughter Pact - (Not sure when this would be good enough)
Smother - (Kills metalworker and Manlands and is 2 CC)
Go For the Throat - (If you need more 2CC)
Ghastly Demise - (If you need more 1 CC)
Diabolic Edict - (Against Natural Order and Show and Tell)
Snuff Out - (Against other control decks? Flip to counter Jace or Elspeth, and use it to kill the goyf.)

LDV makes running Thopter Foundry very interesting, because it can randomly find both pieces of the combo by itself. Thopter Foundry would make excess Mox Opals more interesting, and it would make Tezzeret that much more dangerous. Spamming the board with artifact chumpers that gain life and increase the Tendrils of Tezzeret is certainly dangerous. With so many chumpers you won´t struggle to protect your Tezzeret. In dire situations you can even resort to make a 5/5 flying thopter that seals the deal for you. Sometimes you wouldn't even need sword of the meek, because 2 tokens can get in for 2, then for 7, then for 12. If you sack an artifact land and the foundry, you already have enough to go for lethal very quickly with tezzeret

That said, I do want to try out Phylactery Lich. I think he deserves some testing before he's discarded, because this deck looks tailor made for him. If he can't perform in this deck, I don't think he'll ever perform well.

EDIT:
With all that selection i think its better to go for the combo finish

[forsmark]

That said, I do want to try out Phylactery Lich. I think he deserves some testing before he's discarded, because this deck looks tailor made for him. If he can't perform in this deck, I don't think he'll ever perform well.

The reason I dislike Lich is mostly his mana cost. Yes, a 5/5 semi indestructible (sometimes fully) for 3 is good. But it's three colored manas. In a deck that wants to run mana sources like Seat of the Synod and perhaps Vault of Whispers (and in my version Mishra's Factory) I find hitting three black mana difficult. I am not sure what kind of deck the lich belongs to, but I don't think it's this one. You're also giving up one of the major advantages of a creatureless build by running lich. StP is kinda bad against this deck, because the only real target are the Tezz artifacts, but they are easy to make new ones, thus invalidating StP somewhat. By running Lich, you're turning him into the number one target. I wouldn't run him but that's just my 2 cents.

- forsmark

[bruizar]

@Forsmark: I have updated the list in the first post.

EDIT:
I tested the list and i gotta say i love it. Tezzeret is super. Fetching a land, or Mox Opal with Trinket Mage is also very nice, it really helps curve out and make up for the somewhat dodgy manabase.
Lim Duls Vault is the MVP of the deck. This card is stupid. Twice it happened that I had the Thopter sword combo in top 5 stack. Also, The +1 of tezzeret can really help you dig through your deck fast! With brainstorm, jace, tezzeret and lim-duls vault you are guaranteed to see what you need.

I also frequently had a Mox Diamond opening, giving me access to turn 1 Lim-Duls Vault or turn 1 Counterbalance.

[bruizar]

Updated the thread with a change log, and a more detailed explanation of interactions

[GGoober]

Nice list Bruizar. I don't know how much you've tested with Etched Champion, but I'm sold entirely on this guy in Legacy (if you can support him). He blanks Bant/Zoo completely out of the picture, and sometimes hold the line against Gobs/merfolks if you drop him early. That's only if you can support Metalcraft for him on turn 3 consistently, otherwise it's not worth it.

Phylactery Lich is much worse than Champion for two simple reason:
1) Manacost BBB is hideous
2) Plowable.

Your deck is on a much defensive role and although Lich can block and kill many dudes, being StP'able or bounceable by Jace makes him not worthy in the deck IMO. The mana cost is harsh. You mentioned that you don't want a creature taking up a separate slot but this argument is applied to Lich as similar to Champion. I have done quite extensive testing in the past month with Champion and all I can say that he is the reason why you can stabilize against better creatures in Zoo/Bant. Yours is a Countertop lock against those decks (mine is Chalice and Wastelock/Lodestone against those decks). However, on the other side, if you cannot hit metalcraft consistently, then lich is obviously better than Champion if you can hit BBB consistently (both are hard). You can use your countermagic on StP so all should be good, but in general, I like Champion because if I have 3-4 artifacts, he's NEVER going to die.

Otherwise I like the list and especially the Thoughtseizes. I can't stress how powerful this card is. If your meta is Zoo/Bant/Merfolk heavy, I'll opt for Inquisitions since they take out as much cards as Thoughtseize (Zoo's entire deck) without the relevant lifeloss, but aside from that Thoughtseize is clearly superior in most situations.

[bruizar]

Hi Metalwalker,

I previously tested Champion in another artifact deck, and I agree that he is completely nuts. I just don´t know if the strategy is synergistic with what my deck wants to do. My deck is weak to sweepers like Pernicious Deed and Engineered Explosives, and Etched Champion doesn´t help in that regard. That said, I think I will test him just for the sake of being thorough. If you say that he would be a really good fit, I don't want to discard it before I try it.

I am thinking of going back to the red splash. Firespout, Red Elemental Blast and Blood Moon help my deck tremendously. Blood Moon turns Seat of the Synod into an Artifact Mountain. It doesn't change the fact that it is an artifact, thus Mox Opal can still give me all the colors of the rainbow with Metalcraft. If I can get 1 basic island, before I cast Blood Moon, I can resolve Trinket Mage to get Opal. That would allow me to play every spell in my deck. Against some matchups, like Landstill, it will simply win me the game if I resolve it. I also have Mox Diamond to get underneath my own Blood Moon. Red Elemental Blast can help fight off Counterspells and Merfolk, and Firespout can help in various matchups too.

My first life-playing with the deck was 2-5 against 4c-Landstill. 2 wins may not seem like a lot, but this is what I noticed:

*I always wanted more than 1 Pithing Needle (Jace, E.E., Deed, Wasteland, Factory) (I boarded in 1 Needle 1 Trinket Mage, but I could use 4 needles in that matchup)
*It's hard to pierce through Counterspell, Landstill, Spell Snare and Force of Will, once you do, your resolved spells can still get sweeped with E.E: and Pernicious Deed.
*Mishra´s Factory never endangered my Planeswalkers
*I was missing 3-drops to flip with counterbalance. Pernicious Deed resolved because of it.
*Turn one Counterbalance is savage
*The games I won, was off the back of Tezzeret's animate. I lost games where I had resolved Jace.

My opponent said he had a lot of troubles handling this deck. Even though he did win the majority of the games, he was still struggling to get rid of bomb after bomb. He said Trinket Mage, together with Thoughtseize were my strongest cards in the deck and I agree that they are very powerful. This deck is new and undeveloped, and I had no prior experience piloting the deck apart from the gold fish, whereas my opponent played a tier 1 deck which he had extensive experience with for several months now.

[ReinVos]

I'm the Landstill player who Bruizar played in the live test games. I wanted to share my point of view as I'm intrigued by this idea. The deck has powerful acceleration for a control type deck. It tends to not have a lot of cards in hand, it rather tries to create powerful board presence and tries to win from there, by protecting the board or by closing the game through one of two combos in the deck.

The reason I found Thoughtseize and Trinket Mage to be particularly powerful is because the deck can easily cast a Thoughtseize and a planeswalker in one turn. This is what happened in one of the games we played, I was going first, keeping a hand with THREE Counterspells on the PLAY:

turn 1: land, go
turn 1: land, go
turn 2: land, go
turn 2: land, mox, trinket mage (counterspell)
turn 3: land, go
turn 3: land, jace (counterspell)
turn 4: land, go
turn 5: land, thoughtseize (counterspell), tezzeret (resolves)


He just broke down my wall of countermagic. Most of his spells are must-counters. The Trinket Mage especially because he can get Needle, which stops my Engineered Explosives. These are (combined with Factories) my only way of removing planeswalkers (I can legend-slay Jace 2.0 though). Also, Trinket Mage's body stops me from ever attacking with Factories. Trinket Mages compliment his bombs quite well.

I did win that game but I had to jump through a lot of hoops to do so (mainly because he simply can't needle down both Deed and EE and as a CA-oriented control deck I was accumulating incremental advantages. Standstill was such a good card in the match-up, the only reason I had a 5-2 record that evening was because I have so many spells that are just too powerful, I can get a lot of value out of most cards. But it's important to note that the games I lost were because of a relatively quick Tezz that did his thing unmolested for one or two turns. I simply died (both times with at least one copy of Standstill in my hand).

Yes, the lack of spells with cmc 3 in the deck is a serious problem. It allowed me to resolve Deeds and EE under Counterbalance!

[bruizar]

After another night of testing, I found a big problem with this list. The manabase is way too fragile. The deck needs another overhaul.

I am not sure if I would play Mox Diamond without the ability to get back my land with Crucible of Worlds. Your manabase is super sensitive to wasteland and Qasali Pridemage. What happened to me was that my metalcraft was turned off by blowing up a mox diamond. That is really painful.

I think this deck should be much more disruptive, and I would like to have 2-mana lands to help me ramp to Trinket Mage and Tezzeret. The times Tezzeret hit play were the games I won, but it hardly ever happened due to the fragile manabase. I would up the number of Thoughtseize to 4.

[GGoober]

I do think Thoughtseize is one of the best black spells in the format :)

Is Lim-Dul's Vault really needed in the deck? I understand the basis: synergy with Countertop, finding Countertop/Tezz etc. But IMO your list looks like it's struggling to establish Countertop or stabilize against aggro (you don't have enough removal against aggro v.s. the other UWx control decks out there which are having problems with aggro).

I feel that in those slots running more counterspell would be ideal. your deck already naturally digs well with Top/Brainstorm/Jace/Tezz so I feel that LDV is just reinforcing the digging plan, but those 4 slots could be solidifying the aggro matchups (combo/control you look good to go). I feel that solidfying aggro is not only important to not losing the game, but more importantly to establish your planeswalker safely. You don't want to end up not being able to play your planeswalker because they have 2-3 dudes out.

[bruizar]

The problem is that top and lim-dul's vault are essentially card disadvantage at the end of the day, and the lack of a real draw engine (early on) really hurts you. I keep leaning towards Dark Confidant because it's one of the best engines and it's black. Maybe if we up the count of Top to 4, you can simply reduce the damage to 1 max. Also, I believe Enlightened Tutor is better than LDV in hindsight, even though LDV is a stronger card. The reason for this is because turn one E.Tutor guarantees turn two Counterbalance. I tried Firespout and it never ever killed a goyf. I'm not a fan. I would rather play Damnation than Firespout, but that costs too much mana. I guess . I miss real aggro control cards like Sower of Temptation, Vedalken Shackles and Swords to Plowshares. I think that Executioner´s Capsule could be a good card in this deck. Engineered Explosives often kills your own Counterbalance, and with Dark confidant in the mix, you don´t want to blow up your 2CC board to deal with a Tarmogoyf. Executioner´s Capsule could be very strong with Academy ruins and Dark Confidant I believe. It´s also a card that you can animate and Trinket Mage up. I also want one Crucible of Worlds and 1 Dust Bowl.

+4 Dark Confidant
+1 Sensei´s Divining Top (to 4)
+2 Executioner´s Capsule
+3 Good creature removal, perhaps even white splash for Swords to Plowshares
+1 Crucible of Worlds
+1 Dust Bowl or +1 Academy Ruins
-2 Seat of the Synod (To one for trinket mage, you don't want to get wasted)
-3 Mox Diamond (Mana base is too greedy)
+3 Basic Land
-1 Darksteel Citadel (not neccesary, will still get plowed, animating Sensei´s Top is better because it dodges Plows)

-1 Engineered Explosives (You will just blow up your own board. The only reason to use this card is to get rid of creatures and jace. If jace hit play, you will probably not get an explosives in your hand because of fateseal.)


4 Lim-Dul´s Vault
Not sure about this yet. If I am going to keep this, I want atleast one ancient tomb, so I can tutor for it on turn 2 and power out a Tezzeret on turn 3 or play a trinket mage and have 1 mana open for using or casting top, or pithing needle or executioner's capsule.

The white splash is still very interesting I think. White gives enlightened tutor, swords to plowshares, but also perhaps Auriok Salvagers to further abuse Capsule / sideboard engineered explosives.

Right now, i am not sure what the right configuration is for this deck. The previous direction wasn't good enough so it needs tweaks. I think I would go to -1 Thopter Foundry to reduce the slots even further. You want to spend as little as possible on win conditions, because tezzeret is also a win condition. You need to control the board with powerful control cards.

[ReinVos]

The deck has too many card disadvantage spells for a control/combo strategy. Mox Diamond and Lim-Dul's Vault are examples of card disadvantage. Maybe an explosive planeswalkers deck would be better. Going all out on Jaces and Tezzerets and playing lands like Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors.

Chalice of the Void fits that strategy as well as your mana acceleration easily allows for turn 1 chalice and even two chalices in two turns, which is often devastating.

It looked like an early planeswalker was always very hard to deal with, why not aim to resolve it as soon as possible by dropping a lot of control elements like Counterbalance, Thopter and Sword? Just a bunch of Moxen, Chalices and artifact land to support Tezz and metalcraft. Kinda looks like a weird Planeswalker Stompy deck then, sweet..

On the other hand...

Aggro is probably still tough to deal with because a planeswalker can't beat the creatures legacy has to offer, so it often needs a control type shell to protect it, or to clear the board before resolving one. It's very difficult to fit Tezzeret in a blue control-type deck, because black is not the ideal control color in legacy as it doesn't have as many useful spells as white has (mainly Swords to Plowshares but cards like Elspeth, Humility and Moat are also very powerful tools for control).

Maybe a UWb list but your deck makes way too many concessions to play a card that doesn't reap the benefits it should.
You splash black to play Tezzeret (and to possibly play Seize and have more EE flexibility), then you need artifacts in the deck to enable Tezzeret as a legitimate threat, further putting restraints on the number of removals and counters you can play.
Finally, your deck tries to invest cards into card quality or quick mana development, making cards like Force of Will much weaker as you'll often find your only pitchable card to be a planeswalker or other important spell.

I'm not saying it's impossible to build a viable legacy deck with Tezzerets, but the current shell is too vulnerable to disruption and aggro. I think that's the first problem that needs to be addressed. Plows work, perhaps another EE, maybe something as crude as Wrath of God. I have no idea, but creatures are problematic. Or Damnation, although double black seems a bit tricky. Maybe.. Edicts and Damnations so you don't need white..?

[bruizar]

Theoretically, the ability to Trinket Mage executioner´s capsule is strong I think. I get +1 card advantage, trade my tutored capsule for their biggest goyf or knight, and use my trinket mage to chump or kill something small. It´s mana intensive (3, 1, 2), but I think it can be good. The biggest issue is developing your mana base unmolested.

Here´s a list

DENIAL
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize/Duress/Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Brainstorm

CREATURES
4 Dark Confidant
4 Trinket Mage
4 Tarmogoyf

REMOVAL
4 Smother
3 Executioner's Capsule
1 Engineered Explosives

3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance

PLANESWALKER
2 Tezzeret

MANABASE
2 Academy Ruins
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
4 Island

[Mono_Thematic]

Eight artifacts isn't enough to statistically utilize tezz's +1 ability. You need at 20% of your deck (12 cards) to be artifacts, if you except 1 out 5 cards revealed by tezz to be an artifact.
I'd strongly recommend the following
-4 tarmogoyf (and all the green mana)
-1 trinket mage (you don't need 4)
-2 executioner's capsule (its a silver bullet to be tutored up, not a something you want to see multiples of)
-1 seat of the synod (mana stability is the goal here)
-1 academy ruins
-1 engineered explosives
+3 etched champion
+2 vedalken shackles
+2 counterspell
+2 talisman of dominance
+1 SDT

That'll give you 12 artifacts, which is the bare-minimum needed to run Tezz.

[keys]

If I was gonna build UBx Tezz, it would look something like this:

4 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage
3 Painter's Servant

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Daze

3 Thoughtseize

3 Counterbalance
3 Top
1 Grindstone
1 EE
1 Pithing Needle

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Darksteel Citadel

[Oiolosse]

Interesting discussion but without testing I can see this being a tough one to build. When I first saw Tezz 2.0 I immediately thought of Chalice, Sol Lands, Mox Opal, Thoptercombo, Ensnaring Bridge, etc. LDV is sick, don't be dismayed by what ppl tell you, if you are keeping counterbalance and any sort of combo (or highly synergistic group) then keep it around and maxed out.