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Tao
02-14-2011, 05:40 PM
Introduction

This thread is about a Black, Green and White Aether Vial deck. CorpT suggested a similar deck in the deadguy thread and his results/ideas have influenced my testing, too (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2597-[Deck]-Deadguy-Ale-%28B-w-Confidant%29&p=519270&viewfull=1#post519270).
After testing the deck for a while now I feel that this deck might be a future Legacy staple. The raw card power is very high because it gets the best out of three colors. I think two colored version deny themselves access to power for no good reason. The Mana works fine and all colors provide unique superior effects (f.e. Swords, Thoughtseize, Tarmogoyf).

The advantages of the deck are that it reliably beats Merfolk, has no overly bad matchups and can easily adapt to any Meta.

The Core

There are many options and possibilities for it, you could easily build a 75 card deck without losing much power, so I try to determine the core of the deck. By that I mean the absolute minimum. For example when I say "4 Discard spells" that means that 7 Discard spells could be good too, but not three.

- 4 Aether Vial: Test the deck once against anything with blue cards and/or Wastelands and you will agreewith this choice.
- 4 Thoughtseize / Inquisition of Kozilek: Games with a quick Discard spell are much easier than without it but multiples are often not good and they are bad topdecks. If your Meta is Aggro, don't be ashamed to play Inquisition over TS.
- 4 Swords to Plowshares: check
- 4 Tarmogoyf: check
- 3 Mother of Runes: It is a good card that helps the curve, eats removal, dominates the combat and forces last damage through. Protecting your creatures gains even more value when you want to equip them because getting a Goyf sworded in response to equipping sucks.
- 3 Stoneforge Mystic:The card is insane with Vial. An active Vial wins games under the Countertop lock through multiple Goyfs and War Monks thanks to the green Sword, Jitte dominates Tribal, Dredge and Burn decks and Control doesn't like Swords either.
- 2 Equipment: 1 Jitte and 1 Sword of your choice is the minimum. The Mangara list finished good with only one Sword recently, only on Magic League but since this is about the minimum I go with the lowest I've seen.
- 4 Wasteland: if you play with Vial, they give you a lot of value and also up your land count to use your Equipment without getting flooded too often.
- 18 other lands: I don't think this deck can get away with only 21 lands because in the non-vial games you will have to cast your spells of three colors from your hand and that is tough with 18 lands.

Other Options

Those 46 cards are the absolute minimum of the key spells. If you play more of some of them them you might already play 52 cards so there is not much room for the plentiful other good options.

- Dark Confidant: Probably close to an auto include but i could see reasons to not play him. He is vulnerable and bad in combat because of his weak stats and that makes him a tempo bump. So if I'd see a list without Confidant I wouln't call it strictly inferior to what is possible - unlike with the cards above.

- Knight of the Reliquary: The biggest problem with 3-drops is that once your Vial is to three most of your good topdecks cost Mana again and are counterable. On the other hand KotR is probably the most powerful creature you have access too. It is usually the biggest beater on the field, finishes the game much quicker than any other card with Equipment and can also tutor Wastelands to win by Mana denial.

- Serra Avenger: A powerhouse with Equipment plus synergy with Vial.

- Qasali Pridemage: It is probably not a 4-of because it lacks power, but having a solution in your deck makes things much easier. Also with the raise of Affinity, Thopter.dec and other people playing Stoneforge Mystic it becomes better.

- Tidehollow Sculler: The guy in the deadguy thread says it is good.

- Bitterblossom: Not syergistic with Vial and the lifeloss might cause problems when combined with Fetchlands, Thoughtseizes and Confidant. On the other hand great with Equipment and a source of card advantage.

- Gaddock Teeg: A good man who forbids the omnipresent FoW, stops problem cards like Natural Order, Dread Return, Engineered Explosives, Moat and Humility and forces combo to find a solution. It is hard to find room for him, though.

- Mangara of Corondor/Karakas: This turns it more into a DaT hybrid but it is possible. The problem is both cards on their own are not very good. Mangara is just a slow Vindicate but especially having to run multiple Karakas is risky in a 3 color deck that also wants to use Wastelands.

- Vindicate: Killing Tombstalker as well as Moat is nice. On the other hand Qasali Pridemage deals with problematic Artifacts/Enchantments faster, has synergy with Vial and pressures the opponent. Also you have other ways to deal with big creatures (Swords to Plowshares, Sword with right protection to evade it) so Vindicate is probably too slow for the deck.

- Sensei's Divining Top: Very synergetic with Vial. You can spend your Mana searching for creatures because you don't have to pay Mana for them. Also good at finding SB cards.


Example Decklist

// Lands
4 [MPR] Wasteland
1 [U] Bayou
4 [U] Scrubland
1 [A] Savannah
3 [JGC] Windswept Heath
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [TSP] Swamp (2)
1 [SOM] Plains (2)

// Creatures
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [SOM] Sword of Body and Mind
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [M11] Duress
SB: 2 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 4 [GTW] Path to Exile
SB: 3 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage


Discussion

- Equipment package: 3 Equipment is probably the right number. The Swords are very close to each other. I want one Sword that gives protection from Tarmogoyf and one that gives you value if unblocked.
Therefore I chose Sword of Fire and Ice because it is also the only Sword with a guaranteed good effect (plus it hoses both Tribal decks). SoLaS does nothing sometimes, SoFaF too and SoBaM sucks if you don't want to mill your opponent (Dredge, Reanimator, Loam, Sensei Top stuck with bad cards). The other Sword I choose is SoFaF because of the two Pro Green Swords it offers protection from a new color and is the best Sword against Combo. So no SoLaS despite being great sometimes.

- Mana Base: I like Horizon Canopy. Like Wasteland it lets you play more land and can protect from Mana Flood.

- Sideboard: Nothing special. Just some removal, Discard, Disenchants and Yard Hate.

jeanbathez
02-16-2011, 03:50 AM
That looks very interesting, i think i will test that list.
What about something like Living Wish, normally it would be to slow, but with Vial, it could work i'am not sure....?
In some way it reminds me, on the good old vengevine survival lists in the beginning ;-)
Can you tell some mor about your testing results, your matchups....that would be nice ?

mercs
02-16-2011, 04:00 AM
That looks very interesting, i think i will test that list.
What about something like Living Wish, normally it would be to slow, but with Vial, it could work i'am not sure....?
In some way it reminds me, on the good old vengevine survival lists in the beginning ;-)
Can you tell some mor about your testing results, your matchups....that would be nice ?

Sorry if I'm semiflaming, but how is this any different from dark horizons, BGW taxes, or PT junk? It seems like there's a good 6+ decks on this forum that has converged to very similar lists.

PS: i know there are few card differences like wayfarer and deed, but regardless, is that enough to make a whole new thread?

Tao
02-16-2011, 07:27 AM
Sorry if I'm semiflaming, but how is this any different from dark horizons, BGW taxes, or PT junk? It seems like there's a good 6+ decks on this forum that has converged to very similar lists.

PS: i know there are few card differences like wayfarer and deed, but regardless, is that enough to make a whole new thread?

Explained criticism is not flaming so don't worry.

I have been searching for a thread where this fits but I couldn't find one. Dark Horizons is more controlling than what I have in mind, and Rock and deadguy are something completely different. BGW taxes is the closest but I don't think posting a three colored deck without the Mangara combo in the DaT thread would result in anything but getting flamed/ignored.
So I made a new thread because I think the deck has potential.


That looks very interesting, i think i will test that list.
What about something like Living Wish, normally it would be to slow, but with Vial, it could work i'am not sure....?
In some way it reminds me, on the good old vengevine survival lists in the beginning ;-)
Can you tell some mor about your testing results, your matchups....that would be nice ?

My test results have been good so far. The deck seems to fit in the Meta and the new Green Swords gave it a little extra boost.
Merfolk is heavily favored. Mother of Runes plus good creatures, some removal and Tempo play is enough. They really don't do anything that is scary for you while you have tons of scary cards for them.
Countertop is slightly favored. If you resolve a turn one Vial you will almost certainly win the game with it on the back of Stoneforge Mystic or Confidant. If you don't, then you have to play aggressive against them so that you get on the board while they spend their Mana on Tops, Cantrips and Dazes. Once they get Countertop and enough Mana online it is over but it is a long way to that point.
Goblins is slightly unfavored. Often the die roll wins the game and you lose a few games to the usual Goblin shenanigans like Lackey or Wasteland/Port. If both players are in the game figuring out your role (aggressor, control player, a mix) is the key. CiP destroy Artifact Goblins are a pain.
Zoo is slightly favored. Especially post board with 4 Path to Exile it gets enjoyable.
Affinity is slightly favored. The matchup is very similar to Zoo, a better deck but you also have more Removal. Those are the only two decks against which you don't want to be the aggressor.
The Combo matchup is unfavored. Post board the example list has 9 Discard spells plus Teeg and later SoFaF so you have a solid fighting chance, though.

Tao
02-18-2011, 02:42 PM
So I have been tinkering a bit more and I think I found something. 2-color but I really didnt want to make a new thread lol. At first I never felt comfortable playing Vial and Noble Hierarch in the same deck with sufficient lands because I feared to get flooded regularly but with the GW Mana base and Equipments as Mana sinks this rarely happens. Having 8 lands to sac for a good effect makes a big difference and also those saclands synergize well with Vial in general.

Mirran Crusader is a recent addition, most testing was done with Elspeth in his slot but I am convinced that he will work out well. Protection from Goyf can't be wrong and with Equipment (plus Exalted) he should have the potential to be just as gamebreaking as Elspeth while having synergy with Vial.

Try it, it is really good!


// Lands
1 [M11] Forest (4)
1 [SOM] Plains (2)
4 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [A] Savannah
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [FNM] Qasali Pridemage
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
2 [MBS] Mirran Crusader

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
1 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [GTW] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity

4eak
02-18-2011, 03:03 PM
I have several nearly identical lists to this 2-color one. Rishadan Port has been fairly good in my experience, maximizing what Hierarch, Wasteland, and Vial do for you.

I am not convinced by the SoFoF. I haven't tested the Mirran Crusaders in this deck yet, so I don't have much of opinion yet. He hits like a fucking truck though.

Testing GSZ, despite the fact that Vial does nothing for it, it might be worth having.



peace,
4eak