[Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

[somethingdotdotdot]

My reasoning for this isn't budget--I already have 3 candles. I just haven't been super impressed w/ them. Maybe If i go to 3, I'll see the often enough to matter (I'm currently running 2 w/ 2-3 maps).

[Illissius]

Perhaps someone can point me to an earlier post discussing this, but with Top, Map, Needle, and Candelabra all being staples in the deck, do Trinket Mages really not deserve to be in it? I mean, that's a ridiculous number of targets.

[Rock Lee]

Perhaps someone can point me to an earlier post discussing this, but with Top, Map, Needle, and Candelabra all being staples in the deck, do Trinket Mages really not deserve to be in it? I mean, that's a ridiculous number of targets.

It is less that he doesn't deserve a spot and more that I prefer the early redundancy instead of relying on having stable mana my first 3 turns. The more I played the deck the more I realized that if you can achieve a stable board state by turn 3 then the game is greatly in your favor. So therefore keeping hands on Trinket mage I was greatly hedging my bets on him stabilizing that board state for me. I found that just running redundant amounts of his targets, or appropriate ratios to them, gave me stronger keep hands and endangered me less board-state wise on those swing turns.

If your meta doesn't have gads of rug, lots of wastes and quick clock decks like goblins, elves and combo, then Trinket mage is the better choice, since he'll let you solidify your games in the slower meta than I have. I simply need to respond to threats earlier.

[gobblor]

Hey Everyone. Just wanted to say that I think this deck looks fun, entertaining, and unique. Therefore I built this on MTGO.

I have a stream on twitch TV http://www.twitch.tv/gobblor

I will be streaming Modern tonight with a little bit of Legacy (This Deck) and maybe some Pauper tonight around 9:00pm EST maybe earlier if I am able.

I am relatively new to streaming and only streamed once (153 viewers not a bad start). I figured I would throw this post in here in case any of you were interested in watching this deck being played as I know legacy can be hard to come by on MTGO. I will warn you however, I have only played in one game with the deck so I will be in the learning process so do not expect super good play right away or anything.

Thats all, See ya!

[Rock Lee]

Hey Everyone. Just wanted to say that I think this deck looks fun, entertaining, and unique. Therefore I built this on MTGO.

I have a stream on twitch TV http://www.twitch.tv/gobblor

I will be streaming Modern tonight with a little bit of Legacy (This Deck) and maybe some Pauper tonight around 9:00pm EST maybe earlier if I am able.

I am relatively new to streaming and only streamed once (153 viewers not a bad start). I figured I would throw this post in here in case any of you were interested in watching this deck being played as I know legacy can be hard to come by on MTGO. I will warn you however, I have only played in one game with the deck so I will be in the learning process so do not expect super good play right away or anything.

Thats all, See ya!

Nice! I hope you get lots of views. I had never thought about streaming playing the deck before, but from what I hear from folks about the lack of success with the deck it might be worth me to start streaming it as well.

Let me know how it goes, I'll stop by and see if I can give some opinions as you go if I'm back in time.

[TheBoozeCube]

My reasoning for this isn't budget--I already have 3 candles. I just haven't been super impressed w/ them. Maybe If i go to 3, I'll see the often enough to matter (I'm currently running 2 w/ 2-3 maps).

Ok, I think that's the issue. I run 4x Map, 4x Crop Rotation, 4x Ancient Stirrings. The more land tutors your deck runs, the more consistently your Candelabras will matter early.

[TheBoozeCube]

Rock Lee:

I'm quite intrigued by your use of Cursed Totem. While probably not ideal for my local meta, it's definitely something I'm going to have to keep in mind for larger tournaments. What do you use it for besides Maverick?

[HoneyT]

I'm quite intrigued by your use of Cursed Totem. While probably not ideal for my local meta, it's definitely something I'm going to have to keep in mind for larger tournaments. What do you use it for besides Maverick?

Mostly Elves. Quite an abysmal matchup otherwise.

[Rock Lee]

Rock Lee:

I'm quite intrigued by your use of Cursed Totem. While probably not ideal for my local meta, it's definitely something I'm going to have to keep in mind for larger tournaments. What do you use it for besides Maverick?

I already replied to this multiple times, but Griselbrand and Elves mostly. I don't even side it in against maverick 100% of the time. build depending. For example, the white-centric builds with aven mindcensors and SFM are wasted on cursed totem.

[Raystar]

I'm going to play the deck again on Saturday and I'll sleeve the last build with 4 Repeals but with the following SB:

1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Flusterstorm
3 Spell Pierce
4 Elephant Grass
3 Cursed Totem

Last week I faced Goblins twice and I want to have a strong matchup against aggro post-side (there always is some maverick and merfolks presence).

Comments? Ideas? I'd love to hear your thoughts :)

[sublime love]

Rock lee.
Oh how I live reading this thread. People are playing post because they think its good, then ask for advise because they don't know who to ask, so they ask the guy who places with it at random tournament and talks to them in a thread.
They argue about the list, is show good, no its bad do I need candel, how many maps should I run?. Idiots
Its show, play it vrs a fair deck, and they lose. That is what show does, I put out a win, u play a goyf. Hahaha
This not the list u kids need to get right, there are 10 different ways to play it. The reason its good is its not a net deck. So your opponent does not know your 75 like you know there's.
12 post takes a style of play, and skill.
Its not the list u need to get right, its tight play and sideboardimg right.
they deck sits perfect in the meta game right now, lands, elves, bug control, ago loam, storm are the hard match ups. Everything else should be a win.
That simple

[Rock Lee]

Rock lee.
Oh how I live reading this thread. People are playing post because they think its good, then ask for advise because they don't know who to ask, so they ask the guy who places with it at random tournament and talks to them in a thread.
They argue about the list, is show good, no its bad do I need candel, how many maps should I run?. Idiots
Its show, play it vrs a fair deck, and they lose. That is what show does, I put out a win, u play a goyf. Hahaha
This not the list u kids need to get right, there are 10 different ways to play it. The reason its good is its not a net deck. So your opponent does not know your 75 like you know there's.
12 post takes a style of play, and skill.
Its not the list u need to get right, its tight play and sideboardimg right.
they deck sits perfect in the meta game right now, lands, elves, bug control, ago loam, storm are the hard match ups. Everything else should be a win.
That simple

More drunk texts from Daniel Hall.

But what he says is correct. The deck is strong because it has an incredibly high card-pool. The comments and suggestions I have given are towards the style of play I enjoy the most and have found the most success with, but they are by no means the have-all-end-all for the deck.

There are easily 15 different successful builds for this deck and the cardpool is phenomenally vast making the potential builds astronomically large.

Play what you want, no need to get upset. But I will always bias my opinions towards the build that I'm running at the moment.


That being said. Just won another weekly event in Windsor, CT. Huzzah. After expenses, I'm netting 100$ a week with Eldrazi and have been for over a year now. I love this deck so much! <3

[evanmartyr]

Any thoughts on Cyclonic Rift potentially replacing Repeal? It seems fairly solid.

[Rock Lee]

Any thoughts on Cyclonic Rift potentially replacing Repeal? It seems fairly solid.

I saw Cyclonic Rift, and it was interesting. This is definitely the only deck that could overload it. However, I feel like Repeal is an especially unique removal spell since it is active at all stages of the game and cycles. It would require something strictly better than it to replace it imo.

[Xtreme]

Rock lee.
Oh how I live reading this thread. People are playing post because they think its good, then ask for advise because they don't know who to ask, so they ask the guy who places with it at random tournament and talks to them in a thread.
They argue about the list, is show good, no its bad do I need candel, how many maps should I run?. Idiots
Its show, play it vrs a fair deck, and they lose. That is what show does, I put out a win, u play a goyf. Hahaha
This not the list u kids need to get right, there are 10 different ways to play it. The reason its good is its not a net deck. So your opponent does not know your 75 like you know there's.
12 post takes a style of play, and skill.
Its not the list u need to get right, its tight play and sideboardimg right.
they deck sits perfect in the meta game right now, lands, elves, bug control, ago loam, storm are the hard match ups. Everything else should be a win.
That simple

As I've been part of the discussion here, I'm taking this as party adressed to me. I think the decklist discussion is valuable. Although it might be possible to make many lists, there are still cards that make certain matchups better and some worse. Without further knowledge, the assumed decks to beat and strategy needs to consentrate on the DTB-sections decks here. With that said, there is in fact a superior list that has the best win % aggainst most of the field. This is all meta-knowledge aside.

I see you're trying to make a point, and even made one. However, If I were the writer of that wall of text, I would hesitate to call anyone else an idiot.

[Rock Lee]

I see you're trying to make a point, and even made one. However, If I were the writer of that wall of text, I would hesitate to call anyone else an idiot.

Dan Hall isn't known for his diplomacy. Just check his tumblr where he lauds his misplays and Judge-banking error in his favor as stomping people and calls out his opponents with more skill as Punks. He's not the most benign personality'd of players, but he does play my deck to moderate success, so I give him credit for that. =D

The purpose of my comment though, was I was just trying to address his points as valid. There are lots of builds, with lots of viability. I just strongly believe that whatever I'm running at the moment is poised best against the meta.

[Vacrix]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135264&d=1346731261

I'd like to mention this guy since its one of the more relevant cards to this archetype that was spoiled.

The advantage to playing this card is that you can GSZ for it in the GSZ focused builds.. but more so the fact that Karakas is an ever present part of the metagame. Everyone is siding it in and its much stronger against this deck than it is against Reanimator where they still get to draw 7-14 cards with Grizz or even SnT where Sneak Attack where the same thing happens. Also, KoTR can find maindeck Karakas as well if thats what they put into play off SnT when we play it in the SnT build.

Triple green is pretty steep and it also has to die rather than leave play for you to get the 5/5's.. but it does have the advantage of dodging the GGG in the hard cast when you just GSZ for it, and 12 mana is par with an Eldrazi. So my question is, should this guy work his way into GSZ builds as a 1'of or should the GSZ toolbox be more utility and Titan focused? I'm thinking this guy will probably just be win more; if you have the mana to GSZ you probably should have already GSZ'd for Titan and just win and if you get this guy instead of a Titan... then you don't get the advantage of finding 2 lands to secure their win if you run into a removal spell.


Also, on the topic of GSZ builds, I think that Terastodon deserves another look considering its versatility as either 18 power, blowing up troublesome permanents, or even locking your opponent out of the game by blowing up their lands and then playing Tabernacle.



I agree on Repeal > Cyclonic Rift. Even if you wanted to run a spell like Rift, I'd imagine Devastation Tide would be better than Rift quite often.

[Rock Lee]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135264&d=1346731261

I'd like to mention this guy since its one of the more relevant cards to this archetype that was spoiled.



I can't think of a single situation where I'd want to GSZ for a worldspine wurm over primeval titan. like. ever.

I like the worm, and it peaked my interest in the first few spoiled cards, but I think its niche is belonging in a natural order deck that runs therapy.

[HoneyT]

Exactly what Rock Lee said. This is about never better than a Titan. Also, Karakas does almost nothing against this deck. The bounce an Emrakul and we simply re-cast it on the extra turn, or draw more cards, or blow something else up. In Show and Tell situations, Titan is pretty much always better against Karakas decks anyway.

[TheBoozeCube]

I've never really played a GSZ-based build. But it seems to be a pretty rare situation where you would want to GSZ for 11 over just casting an Eldrazi - not to mention that hardcasting Worldspine Wurm requires GGG.

The only scenario I can think of is where (1) your opponent has removal, (2) he has lethal damage on board if you don't block, (3) his creatures don't have evasion, (4) you don't have any PrimeTimes in your library to get with GSZ, and (5) you have no Glimmerposts left in your library to get with PrimeTime. And even in this unlikely situation, All Is Dust would probably be better.

[TheBoozeCube]

So I went 3-1 at Thursday Legacy, which isn't unusual. What was unusual, however, was that I started out the night by beating Lands and Storm, the deck's two worst matchups.

Round 1: Lands
Game 1 was over quickly. I scooped about five minutes in after my opponent got out a Wasteland/Loam/Exploration lock.

Sideboarding: +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Pithing Needle, +1 Bojuka Bog, +2 Krosan Grip, -3 Maze of Ith, -1 Karakas, -3 All is Dust

Game 2 was also over very quickly. I played Pithing Needle on turn 1, naming Wasteland. I had Ulamog out a few turns later.

Game 3 was interesting. I kept a hand of Forest x2, Surgical Extraction, Top, Crop Rotation x2, Exploration. I used Top to make sure my early land drops were basic Forests (plus a Glimmerpost) while sculpting my hand into Eye of Ugin, Cloudpost x2, Vesuva, Crop Rotation x2, Kozilek. My opponent had Wasteland and Ghost Quarter. I played a Cloudpost, hoping to bait the Wasteland. My opponent hit it with his Wasteland, and I sac'ed it to Crop Rotation in response to get another Cloudpost, then used Surgical Extraction to exile all of his Wastelands. My opponent then hit my new Cloudpost with Ghost Quarter, so I tutored for a Forest and sac'ed it to the second Crop Rotation to get the last Cloudpost. I untapped, played the Cloudpost in my hand and Vesuva copying it, found a Candelabra with Top, then used it to cast Kozilek for the win.

Round 2: Storm
I started Game 1 with a very fast hand - Forest, Exploration, Cloudpost, Vesuva, Top, Candelabra, Ancient Stirrings. My opponent attempted to combo off on turn 3. I got a bit lucky in that he was just short of lethal storm with Tendrils, forcing him to Burning Wish for Empty the Warrens for 18 goblins. I used Top on my upkeep to find Eye of Ugin as my land that turn and set up an Ancient Stirrings for my next draw. My opponent swung for 18, putting me at 2. I cast my first Ancient Stirrings, finding the All Is Dust I needed as the fourth card down, then wiped the board. Kozilek and Emrakul came down shortly after.

Sideboarding: +3 Mindbreak Trap, +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Powder Keg, -3 Maze of Ith, -1 Karakas, -1 Forest, -1 Crucible, -1 All is Dust

Game 2, I kept an otherwise mediocre hand because it had Mindbreak Trap. My opponent attempted to combo out on turn 3 again, so I exiled everything on the stack. A few leisurely turns later, I had Ulamog blow up one of his two lands.

Round 3: BUG Tempo
Game 1 went pretty solidly in my favor. I had Mazes/Candelabras to deal with his Goyfs and Delvers until I wiped the board with All Is Dust. Kozilek came down; he Stifled the casting trigger, but had no answer to the Butcher himself.

Sideboarding: +2 Powder Keg, +2 Pithing Needle, +1 Boseiju, +1 Bojuka Bog, -3 Exploration, -1 Forest, -1 Karakas, -1 Crucible

Game 2, I snap-kept a very greedy hand and paid for it. Wasteland hit my turn 1 Cloudpost, which made the 2x Vesuvas in my hand much less exciting. I put up a fight for a while, using Powder Keg to kill a pair of flipped Delvers and gaining a reasonable amount of life off of Glimmerposts. Eventually, he got out 2x Goyfs and found Loam, keeping me stuck on 6 mana.

Game 3, I mulled to a strong 6, with Forest, Exploration, Cloudpost x2, Expedition Map x2. I got greedy, however, and played both of my Expedition Maps on turn 2 - which my opponent then hit with Maelstrom Pulse while I was effectively tapped out. I used a Bojuka Bog to shrink his Goyf, which turned out to be very fortunate because he had planned to use his graveyard to cast Tombstalker the following turn. We went back and forth for a while; I wiped the board a few times, he'd play more creatures. Eventually, I got up to a good amount of mana and found the Eye of Ugin, which I activated to find Emrakul when they called time. My opponent had a strong board position, but I wasn't too worried. He didn't appear to have lethal damage, while I would be able to take turns 2, 3, and 5 for the win... and then my opponent Brainstormed Temporal Mastery to the top of his library. I did not get to cast Emrakul.

Round 4: RUG Delver
Game 1 was pretty slow. I had to mull to five, but got a pair of Mazes early to keep his Delvers at bay while I waited to topdeck a tutor or Eldrazi. I topdecked Kozilek, which he countered, but still gave me Ulamog off the casting trigger. He did not have an answer.

Sideboarding: +2 Pithing Needle, +2 Powder Keg, +1 Boseiju, -3 Exploration, -1 Forest, -1 Crucible

Game 2, he had an early Wasteland followed by Surgical Extraction for Cloudpost. I've come back from this vs RUG before, but it did not happen this time.

Game 3, he had a strong start with a Goyf and a pair of Delvers and got me down to dangerously low life. I used Boseiju to make All Is Dust uncounterable and started trying to gain some life with Glimmerposts. I used Boseiju/All Is Dust again after he got a few more creatures out. It was getting late, so my opponent scooped after I had the Eye and tutored for Kozilek.

If anyone's curious, this is the list I've been using:

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Maze of Ith
9 Forest

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
3 Exploration
4 Explore
3 All Is Dust

Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Powder Keg
2 Pithing Needle

[Rock Lee]

So I went 3-1 at Thursday Legacy, which isn't unusual. What was unusual, however, was that I started out the night by beating Lands and Storm, the deck's two worst matchups.


I am never ceased to be amazed about how people think lands is even remotely unfavorable never mind one of the "worst matchups" for the deck. That is honestly such a joke. they lose to bojuka bog, they lose to show and tell, you maindeck needles and they run zero counters.

I would play against lands all day every day 100% of the time if I could. I have a teammate who plays lands and we just don't even test the two decks against each other anymore because he'll win maybe 1 out of 30 matches.

Also no wonder you're surprised about beating Storm. In addition to running the mono green version and only having 3 anti-storm cards in the sideboard, you don't even run tabernacle. /palm

To others reading this report. I love it, folks playing the deck is a great thing, but this is not an optimized list for the meta.

[Ellistann]

Has anyone tried slipping mindslaver (or 2x) and an academy ruins in a heavy blue build?

Seems low impact, you already have the maps to find academy ruins, and this could be a colorless temporal mastery and/or wincon

[Rock Lee]

Seems low impact, you already have the maps to find academy ruins, and this could be a colorless temporal mastery and/or wincon

I love mindslaver. really I really really really do. I played control slaver for 4 years without break and I won many many pieces of power with it. But sadly it is only good against matchups you already roflstomp like U/W miracles. You can't tutor it with Ugin, and it is way way too slow against the matchups you want it in. Ultimately, without tinker, I don't see mindslaver in this deck.

If you're looking for a 10 cmc wincon, I'd go with more Kozileks.

[TheBoozeCube]

I am never ceased to be amazed about how people think lands is even remotely unfavorable never mind one of the "worst matchups" for the deck. That is honestly such a joke. they lose to bojuka bog, they lose to show and tell, you maindeck needles and they run zero counters.

I would play against lands all day every day 100% of the time if I could. I have a teammate who plays lands and we just don't even test the two decks against each other anymore because he'll win maybe 1 out of 30 matches.

I've played against Lands a lot too -- there are three or four people who play this deck in my local meta -- and it's easily my deck's worst matchup.

Pithing Needle on Wasteland is at best a temporary solution. Rishadan Port and Ghost Quarter are just as destructive, and it's laughably easy for Lands to find Engineered Explosives.

Bojuka Bog (or any other one-shot graveyard hate) is also only a temporary solution, since it's unlikely that you'll see more than one Loam in the yard at a time (especially if they know you play Bojuka Bog).

I'll concede that S&T is a solid card against Lands (although Karakas then becomes much better against you too). Personally, I'm not a fan of S&T builds however; I prefer to dedicate more space to ramp cards.


Also no wonder you're surprised about beating Storm. In addition to running the mono green version and only having 3 anti-storm cards in the sideboard, you don't even run tabernacle. /palm

There's actually 7 anti-storm cards. Surgical Extraction hitting a ritual or tutor is decent disruption, especially if you know they put something they need on top with a Brainstorm. And Powder Keg deals with Goblin Tokens.

I don't have a Tabernacle yet, although it's next on my major acquisitions list. I'll probably run it in the main though.


To others reading this report. I love it, folks playing the deck is a great thing, but this is not an optimized list for the meta.

It depends on your local meta and playstyle.

The S&T version of this deck has a weaker matchup against decks like Delver, Maverick, Merfolk, Stoneblade, and such. It has less ramp and a weaker dig/tutor package and instead relies more on S&T, which leaves the deck much more vulnerable to disruption and countermagic. Its early-game defenses against creatures are also less robust (especially pre-board). And because it's U/G, it's more vulnerable to Wasteland and Stifle. S&T makes up for this by being able to play some countermagic and being able to cheat in creatures when it can resolve S&T itself.

My list plays very differently. It's a lot more ramp-oriented, with 7 cards that let you play multiple lands per turn and a full playset of Candelabras. It also runs a stronger tutor/dig package with full playsets of Expedition Map, Crop Rotation, and Ancient Stirrings (with a couple of Tops as well). This makes the deck a lot more resilient to disruption and Wasteland, since you can consistently find what you need quickly and cheaply. It also makes the deck much more resilient to countermagic; soft counters like Spell Pierce and Daze are usually irrelevant by turn 2. It also has stronger early-game defenses in Maze of Ith, especially when paired with Candelabra, and can easily wipe the board with All Is Dust (which it can find with Ancient Stirrings). And with the heavier emphasis on ramp, the deck can consistently generate the mana to hardcast Kozilek or Ulamog on turn 3 or Emrakul on turn 4 (or even a turn earlier with nut draws).

Without S&T or countermagic (other than Mindbreak Trap), my list does indeed have a harder matchup vs Lands and Storm. But it also has been about 80% vs decks like RUG, Maverick, and Merfolk. And I literally have never lost a match to Stoneblade (I think I've lost one or two games to it in the past year that I've been playing this deck). There's a very healthy Legacy scene here--I have the option to play sanctioned Legacy as often as 4 days per week--and I've been doing quite well with this list.

So again, it depends on your local meta and your playstyle.

[Rock Lee]

The S&T version of this deck has a weaker matchup against decks like Delver, Maverick, Merfolk, Stoneblade, and such. It has less ramp and a weaker dig/tutor package and instead relies more on S&T, which leaves the deck much more vulnerable to disruption and countermagic. Its early-game defenses against creatures are also less robust (especially pre-board). And because it's U/G, it's more vulnerable to Wasteland and Stifle. S&T makes up for this by being able to play some countermagic and being able to cheat in creatures when it can resolve S&T itself.

Strongly disagree on the UG analysis and I chalk this up to you being new to playing the deck and thus not being able to flesh out how to play it optimally. Running Trop doesn't mean you are more vulnerable to wasteland at all, as the same number of wastelands will be in play against mono green, just hitting loci, which you don't want at all. If anything U/G is stronger against wasteland since it offers them the ability to hit your Trops and Crop rotation'ing them out in addition to the deck having more card selection.

U/G Defenses are fine if you run repeal. Maze of Ith isn't mana so either stunts you or forces you to run disadvantage cards like exploration/explore. Mono Green loses even more to stifle than U/G since your ability to respond to tragedy is far lower than U/G.

All the decks you listed as being trouble decks are completely won off of Show & Tell -> Titan. In addition to having all the maneuverability and more that mono green has.


My list plays very differently. It's a lot more ramp-oriented, with 7 cards that let you play multiple lands per turn and a full playset of Candelabras.

...

It also has stronger early-game defenses in Maze of Ith, especially when paired with Candelabra, and can easily wipe the board with All Is Dust (which it can find with Ancient Stirrings).

Doing things differently does not mean more effective. The pitfall of being a deck designer is getting over the hump of other people having better ideas than you and clinging to the concept that individuality equals tournament success. I played a mono Green version for several months when the meta called for it. The reasons were logical and made sense. The current meta is too able to hinder mono-green's early game tenuous plays and thus it is a weaker version than U/G.

You even mentioned in your tournament report that you had a good hand, you just got wasted out of the game and were "stuck on 6 mana." U/G never gets stuck unless it is at 1-2 mana, so the potential outs are significantly greater.


Without S&T or countermagic (other than Mindbreak Trap), my list does indeed have a harder matchup vs Lands and Storm. But it also has been about 80% vs decks like RUG, Maverick, and Merfolk. And I literally have never lost a match to Stoneblade (I think I've lost one or two games to it in the past year that I've been playing this deck).

Rug, Maverick and Merfolk matchups can all be made very positive just by running a good build of U/G and practice. I agree that Mono Green's faceroll type of strategy is easier for newer players to the deck concept, but ultimately that faceroll linearity limits your high-skill thresholds you will need against good players and good draws.

Since running repeal I have only lost a single match to RuG over 2 major tournaments and 5 minor ones and that loss was due to greed. The deck gave me exactly everything I needed. I simply had to sit back and listen to it.

That's the point I'm trying to get to. U/G is a deck of answers and appropriate responses. I build the deck to allow for an answer to nearly every single contingency in the format solong as the pilot is willing to listen to the statistics. Mono green is strong in its brute force, but it requires significantly more chance, favorable statistics, and potential knowledge to achieve the same results as U/G, thus making it better for earlier players to the archetype, but weaker once a player wants to start playing to the Top 8/16 instead of The Swiss.

Zero hate at all. Play on. Enjoy it. The game is about fun. But as someone who has been on both sides of that court, when you are ready to step up your game I suggest you try out U/G. Probably the best reason to not play U/G is card availability. Show & Tell is disgustingly expensive at the moment and Trops aren't cheap either, but the worst reason if your goal is success is an emotional opinion about cards being unfair or unethical. If you believed that entirely then you wouldn't be interested in discussions about optimizing for tournament play.

[TheBoozeCube]

Well, Rock, we can agree to disagree. I've also been on both sides. I started out U/G and moved to mono-green because I think it's faster, more consistent, and more resilient.

I have no problem with S&T; I just find it easier to ramp and hardcast my Eldrazi in a meta saturated with Spell Pierce and Karakas.

[Rock Lee]

2/8 at DHG were Turbo-Eldrazi. My teammate piloting the deck missed out on being a 3rd Top 8 spot in the last round. Again the deck is making a great showing.

My pairings were Zoo, U/W Miracles, U/R Delver, Maverick, High Tide (only loss), OmniShow. Top 8 loss was to B/W control, which he admitted was an amazing statistical anomoly. In testing he won 1 in 25 rounds and that's about where my testing lay also.

[blindspotxxx]

2/8 at DHG were Turbo-Eldrazi. My teammate piloting the deck missed out on being a 3rd Top 8 spot in the last round. Again the deck is making a great showing.

My pairings were Zoo, U/W Miracles, U/R Delver, Maverick, High Tide (only loss), OmniShow. Top 8 loss was to B/W control, which he admitted was an amazing statistical anomoly. In testing he won 1 in 25 rounds and that's about where my testing lay also.

Can you link a report to this tournament, I'm really interested to create this deck :) Sounds awesome and fun and crushes control. I'd also want to see the decklists of the 2 top 8 turbo eldazzis thanks!

[Seirei]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to this forum and I'm also fairly new to Magic.
I made the mistake to build an old standard version of the Eldrazi Ramp (due to a lack of understanding the difference between legacy and standard) and I'm currently trying to upgrade my deck slowly to something more competetive.
The 12-post strategy already helped a lot, but I still have to catch up on a lot of the core cards.

Now if you don't mind I'd like to ask a few questions.

1. Is the Magus of the Candelabra a fair replacement to the Candelabra of Tawnos for the start?
I've already put some money down to get the eldrazi and getting the Candelabras would be a bit too much for a while.

2. After reading though most of this thread I didn't catch what the reason was to take the miracle cards out of the decklist. Some explanaiton would be realy nice.

3. How do you deal with Omni/Tell decks, somehow this and Merfolk are troubleing me the most.

and last but not least

4. Which cards are the core cards and 'first to get' in this deck?
I mean the eldrazi, the 12 post set and I guess the SDT are obvious, but what should I get next?

Just for completion I'll post my decklist here.

Please note that this list originated from a standard deck and is right in an evolutional phase, so it's far from being complete or optimal.

LANDS (29)
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Khalni Garden
7 Forest

CREATURES (18)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infnite Gyre
4 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Ondu Giant
4 Kozilek's Predator
4 Overgrown Battlement

SPELLS (11)
4 All is Dust
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore

ARTEFACT (2)
2 Expedition Map

I thank everyone in advance that is kind enough to help me out a bit. :)

Edit:
After reading a bit through the (latest?) Tournament Report I noticed something.
Would the following be possible:
T1 Cloudpost, Dryad Arbor
T2 Cloudpost, Painters Servant
T3 Forest, Natural Order into Emrakul?
Sure this wouldn't be too competetive since you can't expect to have Dryad Arbor, a Forest, two other lands and Natural order on your starting hand, but I find it intriguing.

[Rock Lee]

Can you link a report to this tournament, I'm really interested to create this deck :) Sounds awesome and fun and crushes control. I'd also want to see the decklists of the 2 top 8 turbo eldazzis thanks!

I didn't write a report and tossed my game notes a yesterday. Sorry -_-. I won't lie, I was somewhat frustrated at losing against quite possibly my best matchup in top 8. I usually only write a report if I get Top 4 or better.



Now if you don't mind I'd like to ask a few questions.

1. Is the Magus of the Candelabra a fair replacement to the Candelabra of Tawnos for the start?
I've already put some money down to get the eldrazi and getting the Candelabras would be a bit too much for a while.

2. After reading though most of this thread I didn't catch what the reason was to take the miracle cards out of the decklist. Some explanaiton would be realy nice.

3. How do you deal with Omni/Tell decks, somehow this and Merfolk are troubleing me the most.

and last but not least

4. Which cards are the core cards and 'first to get' in this deck?
I mean the eldrazi, the 12 post set and I guess the SDT are obvious, but what should I get next?

Edit:
After reading a bit through the (latest?) Tournament Report I noticed something.
Would the following be possible:
T1 Cloudpost, Dryad Arbor
T2 Cloudpost, Painters Servant
T3 Forest, Natural Order into Emrakul?
Sure this wouldn't be too competetive since you can't expect to have Dryad Arbor, a Forest, two other lands and Natural order on your starting hand, but I find it intriguing.

I know this might seem put-off-ish, but your questions will all be answered by reading more than the last 2-3 pages of this thread.

[Seirei]

I know this might seem put-off-ish, but your questions will all be answered by reading more than the last 2-3 pages of this thread.

Actually yes it does, I was just hoping someone could elaborate a bit on that, since I'm just not able to see the connections, well sorry for being new and asking for help.
And I already mentioned that I've read most of the thread. I just skipped some off-topic discussions and stuff like that.

[psrex]

I would add Crop Rotation and Glacial Chasm as soon as possible. Both cards are very inexpensive. You could try Magus of the Candelabra, but it's a very fragile creature, and you can't use it the turn you play it, so it may not be worth the slot.

Natural Order can only get green creatures, so you can't get Emrakul with it.

[dsck]

Natural Order can only get green creatures, so you can't get Emrakul with it.

He mentioned Painter's Sevant but I dont think that card fits into this deck in any way.

[blindspotxxx]

I didn't write a report and tossed my game notes a yesterday. Sorry -_-. I won't lie, I was somewhat frustrated at losing against quite possibly my best matchup in top 8. I usually only write a report if I get Top 4 or better.



I know this might seem put-off-ish, but your questions will all be answered by reading more than the last 2-3 pages of this thread.

What's your current build that made top 8? I want to pilot this to a top 8 in our country as well. Cheat Emrakul into play? No I will pay! lol

[Rock Lee]

Actually yes it does, I was just hoping someone could elaborate a bit on that, since I'm just not able to see the connections, well sorry for being new and asking for help.
And I already mentioned that I've read most of the thread. I just skipped some off-topic discussions and stuff like that.

I wasn't apologizing about it sounding put-offish. I was stating that it would be interpreted as such. The reason I reference people to the previous pages is that all these questions have been answered and more.

If you're breaking into the format with this deck, i.e. you do not have card staples such as Trops, Fetches, possibly Show & Tells, this deck will be expensive. It is one of the most expensive decks in the format right now, if not THE most expensive.

That caveat being said, here is my current list:

// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [M10] Pithing Needle
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [US] Show and Tell

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [VI] Elephant Grass
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas


If you want a list without Candelabras I would suggest running Temporal Mastery in its spot and running Devastation Tide over Repeal. Without knowing more about your meta (Supposedly Europe is super heavy storm combo, I don't know what the Phillipines is) I can't speak much more of tuning the list to your needs.

::EDIT:: Tried a list without Ulamog as posted above and I really dislike the lack of answers he provided. meta-dependent, but I would include him over the 4th Expedition Map.

[theillest]

...

1. Is the Magus of the Candelabra a fair replacement to the Candelabra of Tawnos for the start?
I've already put some money down to get the eldrazi and getting the Candelabras would be a bit too much for a while.

2. After reading though most of this thread I didn't catch what the reason was to take the miracle cards out of the decklist. Some explanaiton would be realy nice.

3. How do you deal with Omni/Tell decks, somehow this and Merfolk are troubleing me the most.

and last but not least

4. Which cards are the core cards and 'first to get' in this deck?
I mean the eldrazi, the 12 post set and I guess the SDT are obvious, but what should I get next?
...

1. No. Card selection based on expense does not make for a competitive deck.
2. There are different versions of the deck. Mono green does not play miracle cards. They are added or excluded based on preference and meta gaming.
3. Are you playing with a real list when you have these results?
4. Play online or use proxies until you have the physical cards.

[blindspotxxx]

I wasn't apologizing about it sounding put-offish. I was stating that it would be interpreted as such. The reason I reference people to the previous pages is that all these questions have been answered and more.

If you're breaking into the format with this deck, i.e. you do not have card staples such as Trops, Fetches, possibly Show & Tells, this deck will be expensive. It is one of the most expensive decks in the format right now, if not THE most expensive.

That caveat being said, here is my current list:

// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [M10] Pithing Needle
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [US] Show and Tell

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [VI] Elephant Grass
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas


If you want a list without Candelabras I would suggest running Temporal Mastery in its spot and running Devastation Tide over Repeal. Without knowing more about your meta (Supposedly Europe is super heavy storm combo, I don't know what the Phillipines is) I can't speak much more of tuning the list to your needs.

::EDIT:: Tried a list without Ulamog as posted above and I really dislike the lack of answers he provided. meta-dependent, but I would include him over the 4th Expedition Map.

Thanks for the link :) Meta here is a lot of blue decks, the non-blue decks are usually budget decks as some people can't afford the cards lol

[rxavage]

If I owned Candelabras I would be playing this deck. I was completely baffled at how to play against this deck piloted by Danny Hall at DHG while I was playing Omniscience. It turned out to be a fun 3 games and Danny won it hitting me with Krosan grip then Crop Rotating for Karakas bouncing my Emmy.

[sublime love]

If I owned Candelabras I would be playing this deck. I was completely baffled at how to play against this deck piloted by Danny Hall at DHG while I was playing Omniscience. It turned out to be a fun 3 games and Danny won it hitting me with Krosan grip then Crop Rotating for Karakas bouncing my Emmy.

Ha, ya it was a fun match up. That was my third time playing vrs onmi show.
Last time I had only one krosan in sb but due to artifacts and enchantments that hate post growing I up'd the count to 2. And it helps alot in the onmi match up.
Onmi is just OP.
karakas used to be enough to hold show n tell decks, but with onmi floating around it needs more hate now.

[Seirei]

Well, thanks for the answers guys!

I'll keep a close eye on this thread and look out for any further developement and probably re read this thread a few times to catch up on stuff I supposedly missed. :)

Btw, will there be cards in RTR that could go with this deck?

[Rock Lee]

Well, thanks for the answers guys!

I'll keep a close eye on this thread and look out for any further developement and probably re read this thread a few times to catch up on stuff I supposedly missed. :)

Btw, will there be cards in RTR that could go with this deck?

Nothing I've seen sofar. But I strongly suspect a meta shift in RTR, which will affect possible maindeck and sideboarding choices.

[TheBoozeCube]

1. Is the Magus of the Candelabra a fair replacement to the Candelabra of Tawnos for the start?
I've already put some money down to get the eldrazi and getting the Candelabras would be a bit too much for a while.

The Magus isn't in the same league as the original. He might be playable if you decide to build around Green Sun's Zenith, but he's still a vastly inferior substitute. He dies to Lightning Bolt and has summoning sickness.


2. After reading though most of this thread I didn't catch what the reason was to take the miracle cards out of the decklist. Some explanaiton would be realy nice.
Not sure what miracle cards 12-Post would even run apart from Temporal Mastery, and you appear to be in mono-green.


3. How do you deal with Omni/Tell decks, somehow this and Merfolk are troubleing me the most.
I find the best way to fight OmniTell is a combination of Krosan Grip and Karakas: kill the enchantment, bounce their Emrakul. Surgical Extraction or Bojuka Bog in response to Academy Rector's death also messes up their trigger.

What is it about Merfolk that's giving you trouble? Usually, that's a pretty good matchup for 12-Post. How have your games typically been playing out?



4. Which cards are the core cards and 'first to get' in this deck?
I mean the eldrazi, the 12 post set and I guess the SDT are obvious, but what should I get next?

It really depends on the type of build you want to go with (i.e., Green Sun's Zenith, U/G Show & Tell, MUD, etc.). To start, however, you'll definitely want a playset of Crop Rotation, some Pithing Needles, and a Karakas (expensive, but your best defense against a lot of decks). Personally, I'd also recommend getting a Maze of Ith or two.

A few quick observations on your decklist:

1. Khalni Garden does nothing for you in Legacy. It's just wasted tempo.

2. I recommend full playsets of Ancient Stirrings and Expedition Maps, plus a playset of Crop Rotation. The powerful tutor/dig package is really makes the mono-green version work. This also lets you play around with various utility lands and artifacts.

3. Relying on Overgrown Battlement for mana and All Is Dust for removal works against yourself. If you need early defense but can't afford Mazes, try Wall of Tanglecord. It's colorless, has high toughness, and you can give it reach to block Delvers.

[Seirei]

The Magus isn't in the same league as the original. He might be playable if you decide to build around Green Sun's Zenith, but he's still a vastly inferior substitute. He dies to Lightning Bolt and has summoning sickness.

Got my chance to playtest the Magus yesterday and now I see both, the advantage of playtesting and why he's so incredibly bad.
As I already expected he got killed/bounced/exiled before I even got to use him once, and also makes it hard if you want to play All is dust, but then you remember that he would die aswell. Again, I imagined that he wouldn't be that good, but I never imagined him being so bad.



What is it about Merfolk that's giving you trouble? Usually, that's a pretty good matchup for 12-Post. How have your games typically been playing out?

Well the last matchup that I had went pretty devastating for me, exept for the time I cleared the board with All is dust. :)
Maybe I just need to play a few more games with this matchup to realy get a good estimate.


It really depends on the type of build you want to go with (i.e., Green Sun's Zenith, U/G Show & Tell, MUD, etc.). To start, however, you'll definitely want a playset of Crop Rotation, some Pithing Needles, and a Karakas (expensive, but your best defense against a lot of decks). Personally, I'd also recommend getting a Maze of Ith or two.

My playset of Crop Rotation arrived just in time to test it aswell, I realy like the possibilities, like a quick end of turn heal with Glimmerpost to carry you for another round, which ultimatle helped atleast once to win a game.
It was probably even the reason for me to place as 6th out of 14 at yesterdays legacy, which is a good step ahead for me. :)
I can probably get the Pithing Needles from a friend until I get my own and which leaves Karakas and the Maze as my only investment for now, but that'll be expensive enough. ^^



A few quick observations on your decklist:

1. Khalni Garden does nothing for you in Legacy. It's just wasted tempo.

2. I recommend full playsets of Ancient Stirrings and Expedition Maps, plus a playset of Crop Rotation. The powerful tutor/dig package is really makes the mono-green version work. This also lets you play around with various utility lands and artifacts.

3. Relying on Overgrown Battlement for mana and All Is Dust for removal works against yourself. If you need early defense but can't afford Mazes, try Wall of Tanglecord. It's colorless, has high toughness, and you can give it reach to block Delvers.

Please note once again that some of the cards are just a relic of the original decklist-that I didn't got the chance to sort out yet.

As for the Ancient Stirring, would it be intelligent to throw them out and get a playset of Sensei's Divining Tops? I ask this, because I find myself often in a spot where I draw 5 cards and have a hard time to bury Emrakul and Kozilek under the library just to get another cloudpost on the field. Also the fact that it's a sorcery makes it probably inferior to the Tops.

Anyway this helped a lot and I'm realy thankful for the help so far, and hope I don't derive this thread too much and this will be helpful for any other new players that want to get into this deck. :)

[Rock Lee]

Seirei, use a wary eye when it comes to advice in this thread. A few of our posters have the best of intentions, but only 3-4 of the posters in this thread play this deck regularly and win with it with equal regularity. Sublime love and myself are the big players of the deck who post here with regularity. And although we don't always see eye-to-eye, we both have a strong amount of tournament testing under our belts and the experience to give personal accounts of what works and doesn't.

My suggestions for omnishow depend greatly on your build, but I have found that a krosan grip plan is greatly lacking. If you absolutely insists on a mono-green build, which a few of are posted in prior pages of this thread, then go with Spine of Ish Sah, Pithing Needle and Karakas. Pithing needle will always be on Griselbrand, Karakas is there for if they show in a dude, and you just hold Spine of Ish Sah in your hand for your show choice. The superior option, if you're running U/G, which you should be, is to run Karakas still, keep your needles in, and run Venser, Shaper Savant.

I have to board heavily against Omnishow since I run Show & Tell on the main, which sublimelove doesn't. I have tested Sublimelove's list against the field and am regularly boggled at how reliant it is at pairings for success. My build allows for significantly more pairing wiggle room, but requires running riskier cards like Show & Tell, which require this excessive sideboarding I am speaking of. If you still insist on a mono-green version and are looking for added utility out of your spine of ish Sah's, dont' be tempted to run cards like Core of Phyrexia. Just run more spines. I was running 3x Spine of Ish Sah in my sideboard for awhile for this exact reason.

You are wise to be afraid of Merfolk. Of all the tribal decks (minus elves, elves can go to hell) it is the hardest matchup. Fortunately, the existence of Maverick and Rug means that Merfolk is being ground into the ground beyond words. If you are finding you are still having Merfolk issues, I suggest going up All is Dust count or Devastation Tide count.

for reference, here are both Dan Hall and my current lists from the most recent event both of us top 8'd with:

Dan Hall:
2 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Primeval Titan
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
2 All is Dust
3 Devastation Tide
4 Temporal Mastery
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 vesuva

SB: 2 Krosan Grip
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Stifle
1 Bojuka Bog
4 flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Echoing Truth



Jer Rudolph:
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 bojuka Bog
4 Tropical Island
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Primeval Titan
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sensei's DiviningTop
4 Repeal
3 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm

sb:
2 Spine of ish sah
2 Elephant grass
2 Spell Pierce
2 Cursed Totem
4 Flusterstorm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell vale
2 Chalice of the Void

As you can see, two difference approaches. Dan attacks the problem with redundancy, and I do it with a combo aspect. Both ideas have merit and really come down to meta calls on what archetypes are dominant. You'll notice Dan has a sparse sideboard against combo whereas my entire 15 are devoted to combo. Just our own meta calls relative to our mainboard again.

Perhaps the most important aspect of Turbo Eldrazi is that because you are dealing with a deck that has an absurdly high mana-curve, the cardpool is incredibly large and thus wild and fantastic ideas are more viable than they are in other archetypes. This is both a blessing and a curse. I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the tried-and-true versions of the deck that are winning prize and events first before deviating down these paths and taking the advice of people who have also recently picked up the deck.

That being said, feel free to ask questions, I just abhor answering questions that could be answered with a single thread-search using the forum options.

[Seirei]

Wow that was a great bunch of information! Thanks for that! :D

On a quick sidenote: I don't insist on playing mono-green, it's just merely my only option untill I get my hands on the needed dual lands. I'll take a thorough look into both decklists and try to adapt to them.

Once again thanks for taking the time to explain everything in such great detail.

Btw, with only one Candelabra in your list, what exactly do you do if it gets countered or somehow lands in your graveyard? It seems like you have nothing to get it back again. Is that, because this usually only happens late enough in the game when your manapool is big enough?

[Rock Lee]

Btw, with only one Candelabra in your list, what exactly do you do if it gets countered or somehow lands in your graveyard? It seems like you have nothing to get it back again. Is that, because this usually only happens late enough in the game when your manapool is big enough?

I run low candelabra count because I feel that Wasteland-reliant decks are stronger in the format at the moment, aggro can be beaten without it (no merfolk with B2B for game 2), and Candelabra doesn't give you pivotal turns against combo (3 mana by turn 2) or control (2 mana by turn 2).

Ultimately, I find that candelabra is weaker in the format. I have tested builds without it, and I find them weaker. I've also tested builds with 2 candelabra, so I'm not even implying that Candelabra doesn't belong in the deck (sorry econo builders). The candelabra count is simply a reflection of the rest of the decks in the format and the deck's need to alter its speed relative to them.

To specifically answer the question though, I have never said to myself "god I just need my countered candelabra back," which is why I run a low count of them. Smarter players will counter the Sensei's Divining Tops or Expedition maps over a Candelabra of Tawnos, since less selection and fixing means that Candelabra is weaker, and significantly so.

[Seirei]

Good to know, so do I understand that right, that the candelabra is just another utility card, so it's very good but not the one and only 'key' card in this deck?
Because that was my assumption here, since it seemed increadably important.

Anyway that's good to know since I won't be able to get one for a while. ^^

[Rock Lee]

Good to know, so do I understand that right, that the candelabra is just another utility card, so it's very good but not the one and only 'key' card in this deck?
Because that was my assumption here, since it seemed increadably important.

Anyway that's good to know since I won't be able to get one for a while. ^^

yes Candelabra is an accelerent that has synergy with repeal, but that's about it. Its outlier purposes are countering rishadan port, back to basics, and choke. Additionally it eats lots of counterspells, which is a good thing.

[TheBoozeCube]

As for the Ancient Stirring, would it be intelligent to throw them out and get a playset of Sensei's Divining Tops? I ask this, because I find myself often in a spot where I draw 5 cards and have a hard time to bury Emrakul and Kozilek under the library just to get another cloudpost on the field. Also the fact that it's a sorcery makes it probably inferior to the Tops.


I would play both. Top is a fantastic card, but don't underestimate Ancient Stirrings. Digging 5 cards deep for one mana is an incredible rate. Ancient Stirrings isn't just about finding Cloudposts, however. It also finds answers (All Is Dust, Pithing Needle, etc.), win conditions (Eldrazi), tutors (Expedition Map, Eye of Ugin), and Tops. Exactly how powerful it is will depend on your build. My deck is about 75% colorless, which means I never truly miss; at worst, I'll get a forest. And I prefer to play more Ancient Stirrings than Tops because I'm always happy to see multiple Ancient Stirrings in hand, whereas I rarely want to see more than one Top per game.

The fact that Ancient Stirrings is a sorcery isn't a big deal - it's basically the deck's Ponder. And like Ponder, Brainstorm, and other similar cards, Ancient Stirrings is very much a skill-testing card. It's not a card you want to cast blindly - you should know what you're looking for before you go digging. Finding an Eldrazi when you want one usually isn't difficult in a mono-green build.

[TheBoozeCube]

Good to know, so do I understand that right, that the candelabra is just another utility card, so it's very good but not the one and only 'key' card in this deck?
Because that was my assumption here, since it seemed increadably important.

Anyway that's good to know since I won't be able to get one for a while. ^^

Candelabra isn't a key card in that you can still play without it, but it's very, very, very good.

The most important thing about Candelabra is that it lets you get by on fewer Posts, making you faster and less vulnerable to Wasteland.

With one Candelabra in play:
1x Cloudpost, 2x Glimmerpost = 7 mana (All Is Dust)
2x Cloudpost, 1x Glimmerpost = 12 mana (Kozilek, Ulamog)
3x Cloudpost = 15 mana (Emrakul)

With two Candelabras in play:
1x Cloudpost, 2x Glimmerpost = 9 mana (All Is Dust + Spell Pierce tax)
2x Cloudpost, 1x Glimmerpost = 16 mana (Emrakul)
3x Cloudpost = 21 mana (Eye activation + Emrakul)

In addition to mana, however, Candelabra has great synergy with Maze of Ith. A single Candelabra effectively doubles the number of Mazes you have on the field. One of the reasons I usually have very little trouble with decks like Merfolk or Delver is that this lets me keep their army at bay until I'm able to resolve All Is Dust.

Finally, it's not irrelevant that Candelabra can untap Eye of Ugin to let you tutor for multiple Eldrazi or get shuffle effects for Top. I can't count the number of games I've won by drawing a Candelabra off of Kozilek and using it to immediately ramp into Emrakul.

Also, if you're having trouble with Merfolk or other aggro decks, you might want to try out Powder Keg in your sideboard. It's very similar to Ratchet Bomb but can take out artifact lands (vs Affinity) and manlands (Mutavault). Most of Merfolk's creatures are CMC 2, making Powder Keg a solid turn 2 play. It's also great against Delver, Dredge, and Storm (for Empty the Warrens).

[somethingdotdotdot]

From my experience, the Merfolk matchup can be fairly challenging because it plays like a faster version of rug vs this deck. I've found elephant grass+tabernacle is usually enough to stall for a couple of turns to set up enough lands. I'm a bit wary of things like ratchet bomb and powder keg because of how long it takes to get up to 2 counters to wipe them and it doesn't really stop vial or anything else. (if you choose to blow it for 1, they'll just keep dropping lords which will quickly overwhelm you.)

Grip seems bad versus omniscience because, as was mentioned before, once they have the omniscience, they can cast something without passing priority, making the grip just look dumb. The only exception to this is if you put something down with a etb trigger and you can respond to the trigger with a grip. Before they get priority to cast w/e they want to.

[TheBoozeCube]

I'm a bit wary of things like ratchet bomb and powder keg because of how long it takes to get up to 2 counters to wipe them and it doesn't really stop vial or anything else. (if you choose to blow it for 1, they'll just keep dropping lords which will quickly overwhelm you.)

They're really only good vs Merfolk if you drop them right away, so that you can blow it at 2 counters by turn 4 (which is when their board presence usually reaches a critical mass of 2-drop lords anyway). Otherwise, I agree that it's too slow.

It's in my board mostly to blow up at 0 vs Delver, Affinity, Dredge, and Storm or at 1 vs Zoo and Delver. But it's not a bad card to have in your opening hand vs Merfolk, since so much of that deck is at the 2 slot.


Grip seems bad versus omniscience because, as was mentioned before, once they have the omniscience, they can cast something without passing priority, making the grip just look dumb. The only exception to this is if you put something down with a etb trigger and you can respond to the trigger with a grip. Before they get priority to cast w/e they want to.

Grip really only works here if it's paired with Karakas. Once they use Omni to cast an Emrakul, they have to pass priority before they can attack you (since they have to end the turn and take another). At that point, I usually bounce Emrakul and then Grip in response to Karakas. They still get their extra turn, but it tends to slow them down most of the time. It's not the most elegant solution.

[sublime love]

Hey rock lee,
I did not know die hard post the deck lists of top 8
Can u post a link for me please

[somethingdotdotdot]

If you have a karakas on the field, venser seems better on all counts (only if you're running blue ofc), but you can just in into play off of snt and bounce it in response to them casting another one. It's basically a lock versus the non rector versions.

[Rock Lee]

Hey rock lee,
I did not know die hard post the deck lists of top 8
Can u post a link for me please

the link (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24493-Lincoln-RI-9-22-DHG-September-Buncha-Duals!-16-Duals-FTV-Realms!-D&p=674858&viewfull=1#post674858).


If you have a karakas on the field, venser seems better on all counts (only if you're running blue ofc), but you can just in into play off of snt and bounce it in response to them casting another one. It's basically a lock versus the non rector versions.

I personally found that spine of Ish sah performed better. I am running venser atm, but only because I have FoW in the sideboard and want the blue count desperately. With Spine of Ish Sah, getting 2 cards out of their combo instead of giving them back half of it was stronger. Obviously the difference isn't that enormous if I'm willing to go to the weaker option simply for the sake of blue cards, but I suggest Ish Sah over Venser for the Omni/Sneaky matchup.

[TheBoozeCube]

I personally found that spine of Ish sah performed better. I am running venser atm, but only because I have FoW in the sideboard and want the blue count desperately. With Spine of Ish Sah, getting 2 cards out of their combo instead of giving them back half of it was stronger. Obviously the difference isn't that enormous if I'm willing to go to the weaker option simply for the sake of blue cards, but I suggest Ish Sah over Venser for the Omni/Sneaky matchup.

Do you pair Spine with Phyrexia's Core or use it purely as a one-time Vindicate against S&T?

[Rock Lee]

Do you pair Spine with Phyrexia's Core or use it purely as a one-time Vindicate against S&T?

My initial kneejerk reaction was 'omg deck of land tutors this will be great!' and then I realized that unlike karakas, phyrexia's core in hand is 100% dead when they cast show & tell. If you are running mono-green, and are considering spine, just add another spine where you would find room for phyrexia's core.

[TheBoozeCube]

My initial kneejerk reaction was 'omg deck of land tutors this will be great!' and then I realized that unlike karakas, phyrexia's core in hand is 100% dead when they cast show & tell. If you are running mono-green, and are considering spine, just add another spine where you would find room for phyrexia's core.

I'm thinking about adding Spines to the board to replace Boseiju and maybe Krosan Grip #4. Boseiju's been there for a while to push All Is Dust through hard counters in the Delver matchup, but I've realized that (1) I never actually tutor for it over a Maze or Bog, and (2) Delver's already a good matchup for me without it. Spine seems really sweet tech though, so I'm definitely going to try it out. And I think you're probably right about rather just having another Spine over a Phyrexia's Core.

[Piceli89]

I've read somewhere that Rock Lee mentioned a mono-blue list.
I'm already toying with a similar idea that features 3 Pithing Needle maindeck (a card that's incredibly busted when Tribal is on the rise again and Wasteland is played by a lot of good decks), probably 3 Thirst for Knowledge (replacement for Trinket Mage), 4 Expedition Map, and so on.
I know that giving up on Crop Rotation is a huge loss because of the tricks it allows, but I tend to play very conservatively not trying to put it all into an as-fast-as-possible, combo-esque fashion. I also enjoy never tapping out and playing 7 counters, so that I don't scoop cold to combo pre-board (running 3 Negates at the moment, they're behaving really good).
I feel this deck is very positioned as of now since no one knows how to fight it, has auto-wins against Miracle and provides great flexibility in deckbuilding; I just fear Abrupt Decay when it'll turn legal because it will be played on Pithing Needle by BUG variations that usually rely heavily on Waste-Loaming in the late-game, which may turn to be a problem.
Anyways, has anyone tried this route?

Edit: monoblue version really folds to Maverick, btw, despites Devastation Tide.

[Rock Lee]

Anyways, has anyone tried this route?

Edit: monoblue version really folds to Maverick, btw, despites Devastation Tide.

I've tried it a few times, and the reliability you get by running mono blue doesn't help you here since they'll still be slamming your lands. Giving up crop rotation is absolutely brutal, and having no way or hardcasting or even including a Primeval Titan is devastating.

At the moment, a mono blue list is not viable.

[TheBoozeCube]

I just fear Abrupt Decay when it'll turn legal because it will be played on Pithing Needle by BUG variations that usually rely heavily on Waste-Loaming in the late-game, which may turn to be a problem.

I've been having good success using Surgical Extraction in my board to fight Wasteland/Loam. There's a lot of Lands in my local meta, which uses Engineered Explosives at 1 to blow up Pithing Needles and Candelabras. Surgical hitting Wasteland and/or Loam has actually been more effective for me in long games than Pithing Needle (although Pithing Needle is better to buy a few early turns with a fast hand). I'm not sure if this will hold true in a build without Crop Rotations, but you can try Surgical if Abrupt Decay hitting Needle is giving you problems.

[Rock Lee]

I've been having good success using Surgical Extraction in my board to fight Wasteland/Loam. There's a lot of Lands in my local meta, which uses Engineered Explosives at 1 to blow up Pithing Needles and Candelabras. Surgical hitting Wasteland and/or Loam has actually been more effective for me in long games than Pithing Needle (although Pithing Needle is better to buy a few early turns with a fast hand). I'm not sure if this will hold true in a build without Crop Rotations, but you can try Surgical if Abrupt Decay hitting Needle is giving you problems.

For once I totally agree with TBC. If abrupt decay picks up and dominates the format, pithing needle will be significantly weaker and I would start running surgical extracts, possibly even on the main. From the testing I have done though, non-TeamAmerica builds of BuG don't give us problems at all, and Surgical doesn't hinder Team America enough.

You beat Team America by out-advantaging their tempo, which is a significant process that I would suggest cards like Divert, Envelop, Flusterstorm, Teferi's Response and Green Sun's Zenith are far better suited for.

[Rock Lee]

Meta predictions I usually stay away from, but since a meta shift directly affects the viability and builds of the deck, I'll give my thoughts after testing a good bit of abrupt decay on both sides.

The card hoses the two most represented archetypes, Tempo control (Rug) and permanent control (Maverick). Maverick is less hosed by abrupt decay specifically, but BuG lists can and should run deed, which maverick scoops to. The pivotal bit is because abrupt decay straight counters RuG, decks that RuG were keeping in check (Merfolk, Explosive Combo, Control, and Team America) can make a resurgence. Deed has no game against Combo, but Deed decks run hand permission, thus likely keeping combo on the low side. Merfolk scoops to Deed and uncounterable abrupt decay, but still has more threats than RuG did, so I see Merfolk seeing moderate play and infrequent but existent showings.

The two big heads to keep an eye on are Team America and Control. Terminus just became significantly stronger. I foresee a relative return to the Team America meta, which was U/W Control, Team America and extremely explosive combo.


How does this affect eldrazi? It is wonderful for it.

Despite Team America frequently being a horrid matchup back in the day, the addition of flusterstorm, which was only printed after the meta shifted away from Team America to RuG, gives you real game against their Hymn plan. They lose just as much to Show & Tell as Rug did, and they don't run as many counters. Often 8-10 compared to RuG's 12.

U/W has always been our best matchup and I see it doing very well in the future. Especially if it starts running Divert to counter abrupt decay, hymns, and combo's early hand disruption, I predict there will be good players piloting U/W to victory.


I am still keeping the list very similar to what I have been doing great with recently, which is repeal-centric, Show & Tell, and a sideboard of silver bullets.

[xfxf]

Do you guys have any links to videos of this deck? I remember clearly watching a match on YouTube but can't find it for the life of me.

[Rock Lee]

Do you guys have any links to videos of this deck? I remember clearly watching a match on YouTube but can't find it for the life of me.

There's a link 8-9 pages back of a Florida player who had several of his rounds filmed.

[Rock Lee]

As another thought of viable options over pithing needle main in the face of an abrupt decay meta, Skyshroud Blessing may be worth testing. I'll mess with it a bit. certainly for the mono green build, not sure about for the UG one. The disynergy with candelabra should be known, but shouldn't be relevant.

[cuthbertthecat]

As another thought of viable options over pithing needle main in the face of an abrupt decay meta, Skyshroud Blessing may be worth testing. I'll mess with it a bit. certainly for the mono green build, not sure about for the UG one. The disynergy with candelabra should be known, but shouldn't be relevant.

If you're going for that effect, you could play teferi's response. Doesn't stop multiple wastes in one turn, but draws more.

[Rock Lee]

If you're going for that effect, you could play teferi's response. Doesn't stop multiple wastes in one turn, but draws more.

Yes but teferi's response doesn't do what needle never did, which was cycle when it was dead. Incidentally you also turn off High Tide's candelabras. Since High tide might make a comeback in an abrupt decay meta, this is at least worth testing. Also running teferi's response in mono green seems difficult.

[Zeisse]

Sorry for my english, is not my native lenguage.


I've been 3rd in a tournament of 146 people this weekend in Cantabria (Spain)

I will write a report to be published on Wednesday in manainfinito.com



This is the list I played




Turbo Eldrazi - Eneko Mendibe
Lands (25)

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin

Creatures (8)

2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Primeval Titan

Artifacts (11)

4 Senseis Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos


Instants (12)

4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
4 Crop rotation

Sorceries (4)

4 Show and Tell

Sideboard (15)

3 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
2 Drop of Honey
3 Elephant Grass
2 Spine of Ish Sha
2 Cursed totem




Goblins 2-1

Goblins 2-1

ANT 1-2

Maverick 2-0

RUG 2-1

UW Miracles 2-0

Pox 2-1

Merfolks 2-1

(7-1)

Top 8 UWr Miracles 2-1

Top 4 Kuldotha MUD 1-2

[Rock Lee]

Sorry for my english, is not my native lenguage.


I've been 3rd in a tournament of 146 people this weekend in Cantabria (Spain)

I will write a report to be published on Wednesday in manainfinito.com



This is the list I played




Turbo Eldrazi - Eneko Mendibe
Lands (25)

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin

Creatures (8)

2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Primeval Titan

Artifacts (11)

4 Senseis Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos


Instants (12)

4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
4 Crop rotation

Sorceries (4)

4 Show and Tell

Sideboard (15)

3 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
2 Drop of Honey
3 Elephant Grass
2 Spine of Ish Sha
2 Cursed totem




Goblins 2-1

Goblins 2-1

ANT 1-2

Maverick 2-0

RUG 2-1

UW Miracles 2-0

Pox 2-1

Merfolks 2-1

(7-1)

Top 8 UWr Miracles 2-1

Top 4 Kuldotha MUD 1-2

Happy to hear of your success in a larger event! 140+ people is nothing to scoff at! MUD is a terrible terrible matchup. And I can see without chalice how ANT would be a beating and then some. How was Drop of Honey against goblins and merfolk? I haven't tested it yet at an event.

[thefreakaccident]

Drop of honey is BAD against goblins, seriously terrible... It is very good to cheat it into play against show-> progenitus though. That's basically all I ever use it for (well, prog and shrouded reanimator targets).

[Zeisse]

Here is the report

The article is in Spanish sorry.

There are videos of the quarterfinals and semifinals.

http://manainfinito.com/coverage/turbo-eldrazi-report-top4-open-44-duals-por-eneko-mendibe

Videos

http://manainfinito.com/videos/open-legacy-44-duals-cuartos-mendibe-vs-llano



I can't answer your questions because my English not allow me to express myself properly :frown:, although I understand everything you write

[Rock Lee]

Here is the report

The article is in Spanish sorry.

There are videos of the quarterfinals and semifinals.

http://manainfinito.com/coverage/turbo-eldrazi-report-top4-open-44-duals-por-eneko-mendibe

Videos

http://manainfinito.com/videos/open-legacy-44-duals-cuartos-mendibe-vs-llano



I can't answer your questions because my English not allow me to express myself properly :frown:, although I understand everything you write

Whenever I'm trying to have a conversation with Japanese/Spanish/Brazilian/Italian/Dutch/German players but the language barrier is too dense, I suggest we both use http://translate.google.com and imput our conversations there. The result is extremely childish and grammar is wrong, but the point is always conveyed. If you wanted to use it to communicate here no one would judge you and we'd love it. :smile:

[Xtreme]

report

Congrats!

[Vacrix]

So... when is this deck moving to Established Status? It's been sitting here in Developmental winning big tournaments left and right, as well as plenty of locals. I personally consider it one of the best decks in the current format. This deck falls into the SI category imo, where its an extremely viable deck but almost nobody plays it so it falls to the wayside. But SI managed to sneak in to Established during its heyday when a grand total of like 20 were playing it and now its starting to pick up steam again with around 20 players. I think Turbo Eldrazi is long overdue to move.

"For "finished" decks: Decks which are optimized and thoroughly tested. A deck is not required to have proven itself in a competitive tournament environment to be included in the Open Forum, but it is recommended. A thorough writeup including card choices, strategy, and matchup descriptions is required."

I think the mono-green list was thoroughly optimized until Show and Tell hit the scene and now Turbo Eldrazi players are adapting with the blue splash. Its proven itself in several competitive tournaments of +100 players. Also, considering Rock Lee is basically the authority on the deck and primary tester, props to you Rock for making this deck even a thing in the first place.


In other news, I'm still playing the mono-green list on Cockatrice but I'm looking at the blue splashes approvingly. Does it make sense to just splash for a few blue spells to retain the lands flexibility (so Brainstorm and perhaps Repeal) or to go all out and run Show and Tell, Repeal/Tide, etc. ? I feel like the deck becomes more vulnerable to countermagic when you run spells like Show and Tell over land tutors. Nobody counters the land tutors because they recognize that you play many. Show and Tell, however, is going to eat a hard counter. Then again, this deck is fantastic against control anyway so perhaps Show and Tell IS necessary to compete with combo decks. So what advantages does the mono-green list have over the blue splash? And matchups? This would be an interesting read worth putting in a new primer for when this deck finally moves to Established.

[Rock Lee]

So... when is this deck moving to Established Status? It's been sitting here in Developmental winning big tournaments left and right, as well as plenty of locals.

I have messaged several mods several times both on forums and via email about getting the deck moved to established. I have been ignored all times. I also know Leak views the thread with regularity so they are aware that this thread is the most viewed Developmental thread by far and has made several impressive showings at large events.

Out of my hands, but honestly if folks want to ignore the deck that's fine by me. More spoils for me, and the mirror SUCKS to play against.



In other news, I'm still playing the mono-green list on Cockatrice but I'm looking at the blue splashes approvingly. Does it make sense to just splash for a few blue spells to retain the lands flexibility (so Brainstorm and perhaps Repeal) or to go all out and run Show and Tell, Repeal/Tide, etc. ? I feel like the deck becomes more vulnerable to countermagic when you run spells like Show and Tell over land tutors. Nobody counters the land tutors because they recognize that you play many. Show and Tell, however, is going to eat a hard counter. Then again, this deck is fantastic against control anyway so perhaps Show and Tell IS necessary to compete with combo decks. So what advantages does the mono-green list have over the blue splash? And matchups? This would be an interesting read worth putting in a new primer for when this deck finally moves to Established.

I have played virtually every color-density variant from mono green to 22 blue cards on the main /w force of wills. They are all viable, but I always try to modify the deck to best suit the meta of the time. This thread has most of the decklists posted on that progression. I ran mono green in many forms, Mono green with only brainstorm (3 of them), brainstorm and repeal, with brainstorm and show and tell, Trinket Mage TFK Brainstorm Ponder Force Repeal, and several other variants. They all work.

Your comment about Show & Tell up against countermagic was how I originally beat Rug with consistency. I just ran 12 land tutors and played them in this order map, sylvan scrying, crop rotation, and by the time their counters were gone the coast was clear for landing primeval titan. Unfortunately, if you need to go quickly this plan doesn't work so it was only effective against "slower" aggro decks like RuG. Decks like affinity and goblins would rofl stomp my face. Show and Tell curbs those corners significantly.

[civet five]

J.R. is Rock Lee, right?

http://starcitygames.com/events/coverage/1251_legacy_open_top_8_profiles.html

[TheBoozeCube]

12 post is on-camera in the top 8 of scg providence!!!! Right now!!!!

[conboy31]

Congrats on his performance. Additionally, I hope he learns to play at a faster pace and not put food in the middle of the match table.

[Zirath]

Grats Rock. I noticed that you had a Phyrexian Revoker out. Very curious to see what list you picked for the SCG.

[TheBoozeCube]

So what advantages does the mono-green list have over the blue splash? And matchups?

There's two major flavors of mono-green: MUD and GSZ. I can't speak to the GSZ builds, but I've been playing a more MUD-like deck for a while now.

1. Mono-Green runs full playsets of Crop Rotation and Ancient Stirrings. With a higher percentage of the deck being colorless, Ancient Stirrings becomes an extremely powerful digging tool.

2. Mono-Green runs cards like Exploration and Explore, allowing you to play multiple Posts in a turn. In addition to being acceleration, this lets you follow a Cloudpost with Vesuva without passing priority to an opponent with an untapped Wasteland. These cards also let you drop utility lands like Maze of Ith without hampering your mana development. It also gives you interesting options with Crucible of Worlds (especially Glacial Chasm, Wasteland).

3. Running basic forests instead of Tropical Islands leaves you less vulnerable to Wasteland, Blood Moon, Price of Progress, and Back to Basics.

4. Oddly enough, one big disadvantage of mono-green is cost. While a colored manabase of basic forests is significantly cheaper, mono-green really needs 3-4 Candelabras to be consistent.

[Rood]

This deck should be moved to established. Many many T4 and T8 finishes as well as a finals showing at SCG today.

[blindspotxxx]

GO GO GO ROCK LEE!!!!!!!!!! Put the deck in the map! :)

[civet five]

The game-winning play in Game1 of the semi's was insane - who else but Rock Lee would have had the intimate knowledge of his deck to be able to buy that much time, and then go for that killer play? Hat's off, sir.

[lochlan]

This deck should be moved to established. Many many T4 and T8 finishes as well as a finals showing at SCG today.

There is nothing stopping anyone from creating a new thread in the Established forum.

[somethingdotdotdot]

Why the 3x revokers in the sideboard is my main question. It stops LED, but it seems like most things you need to stop are answered by a needle anyways.

[Philipp2293]

The game-winning play in Game1 of the semi's was insane - who else but Rock Lee would have had the intimate knowledge of his deck to be able to buy that much time, and then go for that killer play? Hat's off, sir.

What was the situation and play?

[Rock Lee]

I'll do a full writeup soon, but to answer some questions.


Congrats on his performance. Additionally, I hope he learns to play at a faster pace and not put food in the middle of the match table.

I will put my carrot all over and around your battlefield.


Grats Rock. I noticed that you had a Phyrexian Revoker out. Very curious to see what list you picked for the SCG.

Revoker was pivotal against Planeswalker stacks in the last round of the swiss, but I didn't see it where I would have needed it most, against Elves, MUD and storm.


The game-winning play in Game1 of the semi's was insane - who else but Rock Lee would have had the intimate knowledge of his deck to be able to buy that much time, and then go for that killer play? Hat's off, sir.

Thanks! That turn was incredible. I'm so glad there was someone recording exactly what was happening and I might steal some of his coverage in my report.


Why the 3x revokers in the sideboard is my main question. It stops LED, but it seems like most things you need to stop are answered by a needle anyways.

Hitting manasources, namely Metalworker, Heritage druid, LED, Lotus pedal, and griselbrand are its main role. only Griselbrand gets hit by needle.


What was the situation and play?

to be linked. It basically involved me casting Kozilek multiple times, ulamog'ing my own kozilek to shuffle my graveyard back in to enable me to go infinite with emrakul all while maintaining a glacial chasm.

[Xtreme]

Congrats on the big finish Rock! Gonna have to check out the SCG videos

edit: Damn.. had you had a cavern of souls last turn in the finals..

[SaberTooth]

nut draws by rug delver... congratz anyway!

[Michael Keller]

Oh, the irony:

The man goes from nearly losing his multi-thousand dollar deck in a college gym, and in a reversal of fortunes, finds it and reels off a legendary Open performance. Incredible.

Kudos to you, Jer; the Magic gods were clearly smiling on you that day.

And this deck belongs in Established - and should have been there a long time ago.

[(nameless one)]

Hats off to you Rock Lee!

Looking forward seeing this in the established subforums. You've returned my faith back in Legacy.

[zathe922]

Hi! I have been following this thread for a while but this is the first time posting. I have been playtesting the deck for about a month now and so far the deck has worked really well.

What do you guys think about Cyclonic Rift in this deck? It hits annoying permanents like chalice of the void and is able to bounce your opponents board at instant speed, i have been running 2 All is Dust in my list that i'm thinking about replacing, thoughts?

And congratulations Rock Lee, it was really exciting to watch you play in the top 8.

[ScatmanX]

Bombs and Carrots is a freaking cool name.

And the recorded plays were awesome. Congratulations.
Almost spit my coke for laughing when you got up to stretch on the finals. =]

[Rock Lee]

What do you guys think about Cyclonic Rift in this deck? It hits annoying permanents like chalice of the void and is able to bounce your opponents board at instant speed, i have been running 2 All is Dust in my list that i'm thinking about replacing, thoughts?

And congratulations Rock Lee, it was really exciting to watch you play in the top 8.

Currently I run zero sweeping removal in the deck and don't feel that it hurts me at all. As far as sweeping removal goes, Devastation Tide and All is Dust cover that role better than cyclonic rift. The overload cost is absurdly costed. If I were considering it more, I would want better eot applications and mana usages in the deck, so I would have reasons to sit on my heels and do nothing on my turn and then opt to bounce permanents. Perhaps a build with alchemist's refuge or Thirst for Knowledge, but both of those I don't see being as stable at the moment. More Testing could be required though and I'm not writing it off as a concept, just still reeling from glee about splitting that Open.

[TheBoozeCube]

Congratulations on the open, Rock. That was awesome! Way to represent.

[Arianrhod]

Congrats on the win - it's well-deserved. Hope to see this thread in Established soon - it's taken too long as it is, IMO.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

What's the optimal number of candles for this deck?

[Seirei]

Congrats Lee!

Just watched the video coverage and it's so nice to see this deck in action.

I also have to say, now that I've finaly got my hands on some Sensei Tops and Primeval Titans this deck makes a lot more fun to play. Now it's time to save up for the big bombs! :)

[Rock Lee]

What's the optimal number of candles for this deck?

I was asked this more and more as the day went by. I own a playset, and some of the time a playset is the number you want, some of the times 3, 2, and 1 are the right amount. I've played the deck with zero and it always felt like I wanted some number of them.

In my matches that day, when I had it I never said "this candelabra is holding me down," which I have in the past when running multiples. And in my Goblins matchup I drew the candelabra when I wanted it, which was when I had ~1/3 of my starting deck left, which statistically speaking is where you should be with running only 1.

Long answer: ^

Short answer: 1, for now.


Oh also. Report is posted for those interested.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24840-Split-the-Finals-with-TurboEldrazi-SCG-Providence-Open-Oct-14

[Rock Lee]

There is nothing stopping anyone from creating a new thread in the Established forum.

The point is I've asked mods to MOVE this thread to the Established thread. This thread contains all the questions that newfound deck builders and players would have with the deck. It is VERY rare that I don't get a repeat-question that hasn't been answered 5 times already in this thread. Moving it to Established would save the few people who are improving the deck a massive amount of hassle and headache in addition to acknowledging the deck as a viable archetype.

[lochlan]

I understand "the point" that you want this exact thread in the Established forum, but really: does it matter? The opening post is 1) from February 2011 and 2) is not a primer. If you want this deck in the Established forum so much then make a thread with an awesome primer as the first post. Link people to this thread in the opening post and if anybody asks repeat questions, direct them to this thread. As-is, if the thread is moved it won't have a nice primer as the first post, which I believe is the prerequisite for inclusion in the Established forum. I realize that, in practice, that isn't actually how it is--but some of the best threads (e.g. TES, Dredge, the Rock) follow this model, which I personally think works well.

I think everyone can agree that--particularly in light of your awesome showing at the Open yesterday--this deck can reasonably be called "Established". I just don't see the big deal in creating a new thread if you're that interested in giving this deck the pedigree (I guess?) of membership in the Established forum. Or don't, whatever. In any case, I think you've already proven your point that this deck is beyond the "New and Developmental" stage, regardless of where the thread lives. I do think it's possible that the thread will get moved now that you took 2nd at an Open, but if it doesn't you do always have the option of starting a new-and-improved one.

[Rock Lee]

I understand "the point" that you want this exact thread in the Established forum, but really: does it matter? The opening post is 1) from February 2011 and 2) is not a primer. If you want this deck in the Established forum so much then make a thread with an awesome primer as the first post. Link people to this thread in the opening post and if anybody asks repeat questions, direct them to this thread. As-is, if the thread is moved it won't have a nice primer as the first post, which I believe is the prerequisite for inclusion in the Established forum. I realize that, in practice, that isn't actually how it is--but some of the best threads (e.g. TES, Dredge, the Rock) follow this model, which I personally think works well.

I think everyone can agree that--particularly in light of your awesome showing at the Open yesterday--this deck can reasonably be called "Established". I just don't see the big deal in creating a new thread if you're that interested in giving this deck the pedigree (I guess?) of membership in the Established forum. Or don't, whatever. In any case, I think you've already proven your point that this deck is beyond the "New and Developmental" stage, regardless of where the thread lives. I do think it's possible that the thread will get moved now that you took 2nd at an Open, but if it doesn't you do always have the option of starting a new-and-improved one.

I've been digging about trying to find the source of this, but for some reason I was certain I didn't have posting privileges in the forum and decks had to be approved to get into that forum. Could have been years back though. I remember being told this as well so it was heresay on lack of research. I'll write up a primer tonight and maybe tomorrow depending on how long it takes.

[Rock Lee]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi

Established list made. I love this thread and was hoping for a movement, but was pressured by a mod and several persons to make a new thread with a primer as the first post.

Please redirect all questions there.

[TheBoozeCube]

What's the optimal number of candles for this deck?

Depends on your build. UG typically needs less than mono-green, especially if it's running Show & Tell and/or Trinket Mage.

For mono-green, I'd say at least 3x. I noticed a huge and immediate difference in consistency after I acquired my third. I also noticed a big improvement after adding the fourth, but nowhere near the marginal difference between 2x and 3x, which was truly night and day.

[Ehhh]

heyyy Long time no talk guys for those that don't remember me my name is John Kassari (look me up for older 12 Post lists) [Tried UG originally but now on Mono Green Post] and I just bought the 12 Post deck again on MTGO because i'll be grinding Legacy for next years Legacy GP's I usually stream on Twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Primeval Titan
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
2 Warping Wail

2 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Savannah
1 Vesuva
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost

3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Dawnstrider
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Thespian's Stage

[kirkusjones]

You may want to check the Turbo Eldrazi thread in the established decks forum for more up to date info. Nice necro, though.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi/page286