[DECK] Steel Stompy

[GGoober]

==STEEL STOMPY==

Steel Stompy is an artifact Stompy (chalice-aggro) deck that is focused primarily on maximizing tempo advantage in games, achieved by three channels:


Speed: Explosiveness from the Stompy shell.
Tempo: Disrupting an opponent’s tempo development.
Redundancy: Synergy and consistency.


Keeping the thread as concise as possible, I'll walk through the contents and key components of Steel Stompy:




DECKLIST
INTRO AND HISTORY
CORE STRATEGIES
CARD CHOICES
MATCHUP AND STRATEGIES
CONCLUSIONS & CREDITS





1. DECKLIST

Decklist as of 04/11/2011


Lands: 23
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Inkmoth Nexus

Creatures: 19
4 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Master of Etherium
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem

Non-creatures: 19
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard: 15
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tangle Wire
1 Winter Orb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Perish



Original Decklist since 02/20/2011


Lands: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of Synod
1 Island
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus

Creatures: 20
4 Steel Overseer
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Master of Etherium
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem

Non-creatures: 17
3 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Cranial Plating
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard: 15
4 Ratchet Bomb
2 Winter Orb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Razormane Masticore
3 Tormod's Crypt or 3Tangle Wire





2. INTRO AND HISTORY

The development of Steel Stompy began with the motivation of playing Stompy decks built completely out of artifacts for two key reasons:

Increased consistency with the Stompy manabase without overly worrying about color-requirements on playing colored spells.
Improved synergy within the creature base, accelerants, and prison+aggro strategies.


This motivation was initiated from experiences based on piloting traditional Stompy decks in Legacy (Dragon Stompy, Green Stompy, Faerie Stompy, Demon Stompy) to successes and failures.


The success of traditional Stompy decks fall primarily on resolving game-winning lockpieces such as Trinisphere and Blood Moon before being able to push its creatures through safely for the win. There were inherent issues with such strategies:


Sequence: If one resolves the lockpieces and beaters in the wrong order, then the deck faces a string of problems from opponents.
Consistency: Inconsistencies with drawing multiple lockpieces or having the wrong cards at the wrong time (aka the Stompy syndrome).
Relevance: Lockpieces that do not matter in various matchups.
Sustainability: Locks in traditional Stompy are never sustained, therefore traditional Stompy has to win within the tempo created by temporal locks in order to secure wins. (e.g. Trinisphere and Blood Moon are temporary locks until an opponent hits 3 mana or draws a basic).


For a more detailed coverage on the nature of traditional Stompy and developments towards Steel Stompy, I refer the readers to partake on a mini-article (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19919-[Mini-Article]-Stomping-Old-Habits) that I had written on developing this ‘new kind’ of Stompy. The article and decklist may seem somewhat outdated in relation to the current decklist and philosophy, but it serves as an important stepping stone to approaching Stompy from a different philosophy/playstyle. Despite being the deck’s primary engineer and having written an extensive analysis on the ‘new kind’ of Stompy, I am still constantly learning the ins and outs of the deck/archetype, discovering strategies that make the deck more resilient and successful in Legacy.


WHY PLAY STEEL STOMPY OVER DECK X?

Here's a list on why someone might want to take on Steel Stompy. Comparisons against other decks are by no means comparisons between the strengths/weaknesses of these decks, but rather, they are comparisons on playstyle, implementation and philosophy.

You play Steel Stompy because you enjoy the explosiveness of Stompy decks over non-Stompy decks first and foremost.
You play Steel Stompy over other Stompy variants because you don't enjoy card disadvantage (Simian Spirit Guide, Chrome Mox pitching business spells, Elvish Spirit Guide), i.e. I claim Steel Stompy to be one of the more consistent and synergistic Stompy variant out there in Legacy.
You play Steel Stompy over other Stompy variants because you prefer to win by applying constant pressure rather than playing bombs e.g. Meandeck MUD
You play Steel Stompy over MUD-Stax/Prison because you want to be the aggressor in games instead on being the control deck.
You play Steel Stompy over Affinity because you don't want to autolose to combo and possibly control decks.
You play Steel Stompy because you are fearless in metagames with little artifact/affinity hate.





3. CORE STRATEGIES

IDENTIFYING STEEL STOMPY’S ROLE IN LEGACY

The biggest catalyst for the recent iterations of Steel Stompy, was the recognition that Steel Stompy, despite its classification under the Stompy family, was fundamentally a deck that should be played as a tempo-beatdown deck. A prime example of a tempo-beatdown deck is Merfolks. I would recommend readers to not think of tempo in terms of the selection of cards that define a tempo deck e.g. playing with Stifles, Tarmogoyf, Daze etc. I am using the term 'tempo' in its very sense i.e. how fast you are developing your game state and board position in relation to your opponent’s. It so happens that there are many decks not running tempo cards (Stifle, Daze) that ultimately base their primary strategies around gaining tempo advantage e.g. Merfolks, Goblins.

Consider Merfolks, we all know by now that the true success of Merfolks lies in its ability to quickly develop a board with Aether Vial and dropping Lords which increases the board position with minimal resource expenditure. Merfolks not only develops with Vial and Lords, but it also disrupts an opponent's development with free spells such as Daze and Force of Will, making it a very powerful deck in tempo development. They spend their mana building their board while disrupting an opponent’s board position with free counterspells. For many people who still don't understand how Merfolk is truly successful, and continue to attribute its success primarily to Lord of Atlantis' islandwalking ability, I think that they have missed the point on the true synergies and beauty the deck is built upon.

Similarly, Goblins develop the same way by cheating creatures with Goblin Lackey, Aether Vial, Goblin Warchief while disrupting opponents with Wasteland and Rishadan Port. Although on paper Goblins seems to run less disruption than Merfolk, the huge tempo generated from a connected Lackey offsets the limited number of disruption they play. In addition, the lack of disruption is also compensated by a much faster clock with Goblin Piledriver and superior card advantage with Goblin Ringleader, which ensures that Goblin can maintain the game state and tempo advantage all the way up to the late game.

One last example to observe is Zoo. Zoo plays quality creatures that are tremendously undercosted in the format e.g. Wild Nacatl, Tarmogoyf and burn. Despite the fact that Zoo does not play any form of disruption, it still strongly maintains superior tempo development in most games simply because they play creatures that are the best in every turn of the game. If an opponent cannot match a Wild Nacatl on turn 1, they will be taking 3 damage a turn until they can answer it. When an opponent does play a creature that matches Zoo, Zoo's burn/removal takes it out, forcing an opponent yet to find another answer while Zoo continues to develop and push through. This is Zoo's strategy of generating tempo.

These three aggro-decks are commonly played in today's meta and we are well-familiar with how these decks perform. The challenge is to observe whether any fruitful lessons learned from playing these decks can be used to improving Steel Stompy. The bigger challenge, however, is to avoid falling into the danger of "lying to oneself thinking that Steel Stompy can be played as Merfolk/Goblins/Zoo". I would like to stress that when designing Steel Stompy, the greatest challenge was to enforce humility and to not lie to myself that the list was capable of becoming a carbon-copy of Merfolks. However, an understanding on how various decks fundamentally work can provide insights on how one should or should not be playing selections of cards in a deck.


STEEL STOMPY AND THE MERFOLKS MODEL i.e. TEMPO-BEATDOWN

A few recaps on why Merfolks is a successful deck

Ability to develop fast with minimal resources utilizing Vials, manlands, lords.
Multiple Lords are a key component to Merfolk's success because playing a single creature whose power level is on-the-curve ends up increasing the overall power level of all creatures in play for very little mana investment.
Disruption in the form of Wasteland, Force, Daze, keep opponents behind the game state and tempo development while Merfolks continues to build up.
Merfolks forces an opponent to deal with their threats but makes it hard for them to do so with disruption.


There are many strategies in Steel Stompy that already capture these features in Merfolks. Previous attempts at working out a controllish/prison shell failed simply because Steel Stompy was naturally fitting in the aggression role more than the prison-role. Tying this back to the observations in Merfolk, we see that Steel Stompy finds a lot of similarities (some weaker, some stronger):


Steel Stompy can develop very fast with minimal resource utilizing Sol-Lands (i.e. Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors). This is a well-known fact that a Stompy deck can typically out-develop any other deck in Legacy given its explosive manabase. Steel Stompy also develops very fast by simply dropping manlands that scale in size with its lords.
Steel Overseer and Master of Etherium are the Lords for Steel Stompy, and end up increasing the overall force on the board for little mana investment. The advantage Steel Stompy Lords have over Merfolks lords is with Steel Overseer, who will persistently grow guys, and Master of Etherium who conveniently happens to be a huge beatstick.
Disruption in the form of Wasteland, Chalice of the Void, Phyrexian Revoker, Lodestone Golem keep opponents’ board development under control while Steel Stompy continues to build up.
Steel Stompy forces an opponent to deal with its threats but makes it hard for them to do so under disruption.


We see how similarly Steel Stompy functions in relation with Merfolk. The method it employs is different (running Chalice/Lodestone/Revoker instead of Force/Daze), but the core-strategy is the same: Keep developing a board while making it hard for opponents to develop theirs. Utilize lords and synergies to improve board position with minimal resource-expenditure and from there try to incrementally gain tempo advantage.


STEEL STOMPY V.S. AFFINITY V.S. MUD-PRISON

Many times, people have asked me, and this includes myself, what is the main difference between Steel Stompy, MUD, and Affinity. There is a key difference in all three decks. To draw a useful analogy, imagine the comparison for: Merfolks, the Rock, and Goyf Sligh. I would say that Steel Stompy follows the playstyle and philosophy of Merfolks, to build a force while disrupting. MUD follows the playstyle of the Rock, to establish control in the mid-game, and Affinity follows the playstyle of Goyf Sligh, to kill an opponent as fast as possible.

This is a simple analogy (not a good one), but the important point is to demonstrate that even though some selection in card choices may tend towards classifying Steel Stompy as a MUD Prison or Affinity deck, the truth is, the same selection of cards are utilized different based on the deck’s functions. For example, Chalice is used in MUD Prison as an early game defense to continue to lock an opponent while they bring other lockpieces out, whereas Chalice in Steel Stompy is primarily used as a tempo advantage against other decks, and to protect its own creatures from opposing removal. As a result, changes in the decklist usually will face heavy scrutiny simply because suggested cards have to be analyzed based on what the core strategy of the deck is seeking to employ. Would a card like Brainstorm be amazing in Merfolks? It definitely would be, but the goals of Merfolks as a tempo beatdown deck demands a higher threat density than card selection. Similarly, cards like Metalworker and Trinisphere (popular suggestion for Steel Stompy) simply do not work with the deck’s goal on being the tempo beatdown deck. As I had mentioned before, when the deck was leaning towards a more control-prison deck, it tended to fail, this is because aggressive cards like Master of Etherium, Cranial Plating do not pair up strongly with slower prison cards like Trinisphere and Metalworker. More details will be provided in the later sections.




4. CARD CHOICES

In this section, I will group the selection of cards into multiple engines/blocks that synergize strongly with each other. In this way, I hope the readers will understand the role of each card and how they function within the deck rather than individually. This allows us to avoid obvious yet vague statements like "Turn 1 Trinisphere is brutal in Legacy so you need to play it". I hope criticism will be based on analyzing how a card fits or does not fit in a deck and its strategy, rather than analyzing the functions of the individual card.

I am also working on spreadsheets that give exact statistical implications on running certain cards. These will be uploaded over time as the deck evolves on Google docs, so stay tuned in the future! I will first run through the core cards and card-choices for Steel Stompy, followed by a short section on other less-frequently played cards that are viable within Steel Stompy depending on metagames.


THE STOMPY MANABASE



4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

The infamous Stompy manabase that power out fast board development is the main reason one should ever consider playing the Stompy archetype in the first place. 8 Sol-lands are a must in the deck despite how crappy drawing multiple Tombs/Cities can get. Unlike other Stompy deck, Steel Stompy utilizes Mox Diamond over Chrome Mox. The drawback is to play a higher land count. This issue is, however, resolved with the deck design itself where the manlands (Inkmoth Nexus) function with Overseer/Master/Plating/Tezz 2.0, 4 Wastelands pair up synergistically with Lodestone Golems (giving you two turns of tempo advantage) and Crucible of Worlds. By avoiding running Chrome Mox, Steel Stompy can always ensure that it has enough business spell to keep the pressure on. Mox Opal has been a gift from Scars of Mirrodin, being the only Mox in Legacy without any drawback (it's essentially a Power 9 Mox in the deck!).

Core of the deck is colorless (50+ non-colored permanents), and this gives huge consistency with the Stompy manabase and you rarely have to worry about color issues where other Stompy decks may complain. Even Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is easily castable with the manabase, requiring you to draw 1 of 8 artifact lands and 1 of 6 Moxes to resolve a game-winning Planeswalker (maths will be worked out eventually)

*RESERVED FOR CALCULATION*

Without Simian/Elvish Spirit Guide, you may lose some explosiveness, but recall that the deck is primarily designed to minimize its dependence on turn one 3cmc spells. As such, there are no risks to drawing multiple accelerants late game that become dead cards (exceptions are the 3 Mox Opal, but when you consider the power level of Mox Opal in this deck to Spirit Guides in its role as being a permanent accelerant, metalcraft enabler, pumping boosts to Plating/Master, you’ll see why the overall choice to go artifact Stompy already eliminates a ton of inconsistency problems experienced in traditional Stompy).


THE COLORS OF STEEL STOMPY



4 Seat of Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal


BLUE-SOURCES
10-sources producing blue to consistently cast Master of Etherium. Sometimes you may not be able to cast Masters, but there are very few games ~5% (*RESERVED FOR CALCULATION*) where you are holding onto dead Masters since you still have plenty of other spells to play out while having an uncastable Master.

BLACK-SOURCES
10-sources producing black to consistently support 3-4 Perish in the sideboard, and the less frequent ability to equip Cranial Plating for BB at instant speed. The Vault of Whispers was the latest improvement for the deck. After realizing that the deck can support UB as easily as supporting just U (since you have the same amount of colored-sources producing U or B), the Vault of Whispers have been a huge asset in improving turn 2 Metalcraft, and boosting Cranial Plating and Master of Etherium, and also being able to support Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (since all you need is to draw either artifact land and a Mox to cast Tezz 2.0).

MOX DIAMOND/OPAL RATIOS
Regarding the 3/3 Mox Diamond/Opal split, I have done extensive testing for 4/2 and 3/3 split. The 3/3 split is in every way superior to the 4/2 split. Steel Stompy’s design was primarily developed to avoid the dependence on turn one 3cmc spells such as Trinisphere and Blood Moon, as a way to improve tempo development when hands that do not support turn one 3cmc spells are drawn (Steel Stompy can still easily generate three mana on turn one, but the deck’s design is trying to limit its dependence on such plays). As a result, Mox Diamond one turn one is usually not required if you have a Sol-land out. Mox Diamond is still critical since it greatly improves getting two mana on turn one in situations where you do not draw a Sol-land.

Mox Opal is in every way superior to Mox Diamond in this deck since fast mana on turn one is not a primary objective in Steel Stompy. Steel Stompy does not need three mana on turn one, but it very well needs the extra mana on turns two and later, and this is where Mox Opal provides the same benefit as Mox Diamond without the card disadvantage. When drawing the second Opal may seem as a bad dead card, remember that the second Diamond drawn is worse since resolving the second Diamond would have meant that you have invested a total of four cards to the second Diamond (first Diamond, second Diamond, two pitched lands, not counting the other lands in hand dedicated to land drops). The second Diamond drawn is in every way worse than the second Opal drawn. Opal is one of the best cards in the deck, and in my opinion, is a much underused card in the format (I think that decks that can support Opal should play Opals due to its sheer power).

*RESERVED FOR CALCULATION*

There’s recent interests in testing a 2/4 or a 2/3 Diamond/Opal split which could prove to be a solution to the deck’s desire to maintain land drops consistently. I am working on spreadsheets to work out the final best ratios and will be documenting these here when they are completed. Recent testing of 2/4 Diamond/Opal has shown great promise in increasing the occurences of early Mox Opal, but the main problem was not drawing double Mox Opal in the 2/4 configuration, rather, it was the lack of opening 2 mana hands when you don't open with a Sol-land where the 3rd Mox Diamond would have benefited more than the 4th Opal.

*RESERVED FOR CALCULATION*



THE TEMPO-BEATDOWN STRATEGY



3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Cranial Plating
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

The ratio of 19 creatures to 5 equipments proves the deck tends towards an beatdown-aggro deck. On top of that, there are 3 flying Inkmoth Nexus manlands, which receive the same pumping benefits (actually x2 effect due to infect) from Lords. Associating this with the Merfolk model, Merfolk runs about 20 creatures with 4 manlands and usually zero-equipment. If Aether Vial is outside of the picture, the tempo/board development of this deck should be on par or exceed Merfolk's development.

However, we don't play Vial, but we do get flying manlands, equipments, unblockable Champions and huge Masters. Drawing some similar functions to Merfolks:
- Phyrexian Revoker ~ Silvergill Adept (2/1 body that nets +1 advantage when played)
- Steel Overseer/Master of Etherium ~ Lord of Atlantis/Merrow Reejery (Lords that pump your army, Merfolk has more tempo/evasive lords while Steel Stompy has bigger bodied-lords that continually grow your army)
- Etched Champion ~ Coralhelm Commander (Merfolk gets yet another Lord and evasive beater and Champion is the deck's commando just like Coralhelm is Merfolk's Commando that can get games just by himself)

With such a dense creaturebase which receives synergistic pumps from 8 lords, the strategy of beat-down is similar to Merfolks. You either curve out with Lords and overrun your opponents with 3/2 or 4/3 Phyrexian Revokers, 6/4 or 7/5 Lodestone Golems and a bunch of 2/2, 3/3 flying manlands or you can sit back and defend while Etched Champion and flying manlands get in there the way Coralhelm Commander does.

MASTER OF ETHERIUM, ETCHED CHAMPION
Master Etherium and Etched Champion are the main win-conditions in the deck. When resolved, very few decks can handle the P/T of these dudes. Master is a little more fragile to removal (Grip/Pridemage/Ancient Grudge), but for 3-mana, he is well capable of matching the big beaters of Legacy (Knights, Goyfs). Etched Champion is by far the spell you need to resolve against any deck playing aggro or control. Once in play and with metalcraft on, only a few number of spells can deal with him. Etched Champion is unconditionally your best win-condition against most decks due to his inbuilt protection from colors (think of him as a mini 2/2 progenitus in the format). When paired up with Overseer/Plating/Jitte/SoFI, he becomes a very dangerous threat that an opponent can only hope to race you in 1-3 turns.

STEEL OVERSEER
Steel Overseer is perhaps the weakest card in the deck, but his importance is crucial to the deck’s core strategy. Steel Overseer, for just 2 mana, is capable of providing much more than a 2 mana investment could ever provide in the deck. It’s a repeating lord effect that permanently grows everything. It is this reason that a turn one Overseer that doesn’t bite a removal is going to create huge headaches in the next two turns for many aggro decks. Overseer’s biggest strength is applying its effects on Etched Champion, Inkmoth Nexus and Lodestone Golem (putting it out of the x/3 P/T bracket). A turn one Overseer is going to gain the deck a lot of value. The philosophy behind Overseer is: It looks weak on paper, but when playing the deck out, you are constantly growing your guys where other decks are playing creatures with fairly static/preset power/toughness. If you can grow your guys outside of that bracket, they are no longer in a position to attack/defend and are set back in tempo. Pairing this philosophy together with a disruptive lockpiece strategy with Wastelands/Lodestones/Chalice, you can see how Overseer gains even more value when an opponent is being slowed down. It is for this reason that Overseer is the key card to winning a Lord-heavy Merfolks matchup. They have to invest more than 1 card to ever match 1 Overseer, who does all the lord effects you will ever need in just 1 card.

PHYREXIAN REVOKER
Phyrexian Revoker, despite feeling underwhelming in many situations on having a frail 2/1 body, is still quite a central piece to the deck. Notice that many artifact-based decks usually are forced to run Revokers maindeck/sideboard as an out to a devastating Pernicious Deed/EE. Affinity tends to run a number of Pithing Needles in the SB against decks that target artifacts. Revoker is basically a redundant slot that freed up four sideboard slots, while still being able to focus on the overall strategy of the deck to disrupt and beatdown. When you draw a hand of Overseer + Revoker and that resolves, your Revoker could get into a good position to start swinging. Even then, many creatures in Legacy are better than Revoker, and many opponents find it not worthy enough to trade with a 2/1 Revoker (e.g. Bob/Pridemage). The main philosophy on playing Revoker is: your opponents are going to play cards like Aether Vial and Top. When their Vial and Tops no longer work, you are essentially shutting down the most important cards in their deck. When they do remove Revoker, that’s one less removal for your Golem and Champion and Master, and these guys are the ones bringing you home the wins, not the Revoker.

LODESTONE GOLEM
Lodestone Golem is the bread and butter for this build. In the past, I felt that 4cmc was hard to achieve even with the Stompy manabase and had to enforce playing the Golems strictly with Metalworkers. It was until heavy playtesting that I realized the flaw to that logic. Drawing a turn one Metalworker hand accelerating into Lodestone Golem on turn two is far more situational than playing Lodestone Golem naturally with Steel Stompy’s manabase. *RESERVED FOR CALCULATION*. I will present the maths if interested, but it takes a lot of testing, and logical thinking to notice such flawed beliefs that I once found hard to shake off. Lodestone’s main strength is the immediate pressure he presents. When you have a good board position, your opponent is forced to spend a removal on him (usually costing a turn especially if they only left one mana open on your turn when you cast the Golem). This is good enough even at the worst case scenario when Golem is removed. If Golem is not removed, chances are you will be pulling ahead in the game very soon. You have another 3 Golems and 4 Wastelands to further push their development back. Being able to finally convince myself from MUD Prison strategies and focus on the beatdown aspect for Steel Stompy is the main reason I started appreciating Golem’s role in the deck. When you pair up Wasteland with Golem, your opponents will usually find themselves more than two turns away from your (unfair Stompy-based) board development. In addition, receiving just +1/+1 from any lord in this deck puts Lodestone in a terrifying 6/4 beater, dodging a lot of creatures and removal. Some of the best line of plays for this deck include: Turn 1 Chalice/Overseer, Turn 2 Lodestone, Turn 3 Wasteland + Master/Champion/Plating etc. In such a situation (especially with Chalice), they are set back two turns with the synergy of Wasteland + Lodestone Golem.

INKMOTH NEXUS
Inkmoth Nexus has been the solidified replacement for Blinkmoth Nexus/Mishra’s Factory. Many people are concerned with the breakdown of damage v.s. Poison, potentially leading to winning issues where damage would had been much appreciated. The analysis done in finally deciding on Inkmoth Nexus was quite extensive, and Inkmoth won the margin by far. I’m quite convinced that future Affinity lists will be converting to Inkmoth Nexues as well in the future:

In situations where you have no pumps/Platings, Inkmoth wins much faster than Blinkmoth. The only exception is if your opponents are already down to 10 life, and it is at this point where Inkmoth breaks even with Blinkmoth. If they are more than 10 life, Inkmoth in every situation without a pump is going to win faster than Inkmoth. If you have a single Lord effect out, Inkmoth is pulling ahead of Blinkmoth.
Against decks that have a form on gaining life (Pulse of the Fields, Cephalid Breakfast etc, random crap), Inkmoth can entirely neglect life totals when it comes to winning.
With a Cranial Plating, Inkmoth can win games in just one swing (very common)
The synergy of Inkmoth + Crucible is not just unfair on the defensive, but rather a scary offensive that keeps coming back.
Inkmoth is much stronger in this deck compared to Blinkmoth because Steel Stompy is fundamentally two turns slower than Affinity. Therefore the desire to go all out on damage is not a big one. A big advantage of Inkmoth in a less aggressive deck (compared to Affinity) is forcing your opponents to have answers for two modes of attack, where in the Affinity case, the opponent only has to worry about life totals.


CRANIAL PLATING
Cranial Plating is unargubly the best equipment in the format, yes even better than Jitte and SoFI. The only drawback to Plating is to play an artifact deck. The reason why Plating is in every way the best equipment in an artifact deck is its ability to close games MUCH faster. There is no real reason to get Jitte counters and slowly win inevitably when you could have closed games 2-3 turns faster. Cranial Plating can easily turn a losing game into a winning game, and as many Legacy players have played against Affinity, one of the most feared cards in the deck is specifically Plating. Cranial Plating works great with Inkmoth Nexus (usually providing 1-hit wins out of nowhere) and pairs very strongly with Etched Champion for 2-3 hit wins. At worst, on the defense, you can slap a Plating on a 2/1 Revoker and prevent an opponent from attacking unless he's wililng to trade his Goyf with a Revoker.

TEZZERET, AGENT OF BOLAS
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' inclusion in Steel Stompy was not a natural move. The 2UB manacost 'looked' very prohibitive in a deck primarily playing 72 colorless permanents. However, the suggestion came from multiple suggestions on the thread, but was primarily initiated from my personal annoyance at the yet-still unfavorable matchups against GWx decks. Back in SCG Dallas, I knew that Steel Stompy could beat Bant and Zoo comfortably but there were still situations where the deck simply lost to Knight of the Reliquary and Pridemage. Witnessing the sheer power of Perish against GWx decks from watching AJ Sacher being set back by Team America's Perish, and having played Perish myself in my Landstill lists, I mused about playing 4 Perish in the SB for Steel Stompy. Surprisingly, it was then when I realized that playing 4 Perish in the sideboard is just as easily castable as 4 Master of Etherium in the MD as long as I ran another 4 Vault of Whispers. After that enlightment, I re-explored Tezz 2.0's contributions for the deck, and comparing against the winning Tezzeret Affinity list in SCG Dallas, I realized that I could cast Tezz 2.0 just as easily as Tezzeret Affinity. In truth, Tezz 2.0 is just a little more difficult to cast than Master of Etherium/Perish, however, with the configured colored manabase of 8 artifact lands and 6 Moxes, you are very likely to see at least 1 artifact land and 1 Moxen in the course of the game, which casts Tezz 2.0 as long as you have any artifact land and a mox in play.

*RESERVED FOR CALCULATION*

Now, before Tezz 2.0 made it to the list, Steel Stompy was inherently a fair deck i.e. there were no 'broken' cards unless you consider Cranial Plating to be a broken card. Steel Stompy had some pretty broken starts (Turn 1 Chalice/Overseer, Turn 2 Golem, Turn 3 Wasteland + 3cmc dude), but there was inherently no unfairness to the deck when compared to other Legacy decks. However, with the dawn of Tezz 2.0, the deck finally had some unfair plays. Casting Tezz 2.0 on turn 2 is as feasible as casting Lodestone Golem outside of double Sol-lands i.e. Turn 1 Ancient Tomb + 2cmc artiact, Turn 2 Artifact land + Mox (Diamond or Opal doesn't matter) = Turn 2 Tezzeret. A Turn 2 Tezzeret is most likely going to win you the game right there if uncountered. Even a turn 3-4 Tezzeret is still unfair, considering that your defense for Tezzeret includes Etched Champion, huge Masters of Etherium, chump blockers. Once you get Tezzeret out, you want to immediately use the following abilities:

+1: Dig 5 cards and put an artifact in your hand. There is NO card in the existence of the format that grants Stompy deck to dig this much. Tezzeret's +1 is what truly breaks this deck. Over 1-2 turns, you will be seeing 5-10 cards deep, grabbing Platings for the win, more Lodestones for sustained locks, multiple Masters of Etherium for beatdown, or more Etched Champions on the defense.
-1: This is his least used ability. I typically only use this ability if Tezz is helpless with no creatures on the board, or if I am swinging for the win with lethal damage by animating an artifact land or mox. The reason why this ability isn't used is because of his next ability:
-4: Tendrils of Agony your opponents equal to the number of artifacts you control. Similar to Affinity, Steel Stompy is very capable on having at least 6-8 artifacts by turn 4-5. Once you hit his ultimate, you should have the game, if not, set your aggro opponents so far behind that they can no longer race you. Note that this ability has tremendous synergy with Etched Champion even if you can't Tendrils for lethal. Etched Champion will just sneak in the remaining damage for the win while you have a buffer of life to accomplish this. Most of the time, his ultimate is fetching a 12-16 point lifeswing with just a single turn passed from using his +1 ability.



THE PRISON STRATEGY



4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Wasteland

This is the core-prison collection maindeck. The selection was mainly designed to have applications flexible for either control/combo/aggro. The prison-strategy is enhanced from the sideboard with 4 Thorn of Amethyst and 2-3 Winter Orbs against control/combo decks. Since the goal of the deck is to fundamentally win tempo/board development, the prison-strategy is a supplement strategy to slow opponents down while you develop your position. Note the importance on minimizing cards that are bad when drawn in multiples e.g. Trinisphere and Blood Moon. Crucible is the only card that is bad in the deck when drawn in multiples. Wasteland is powerful enough to win some games by itself, and becomes unfair when paired up with Lodestone Golem and/or Crucible of Worlds. It is important to note that 8 of the prison-strategy are creatures, which all benefit from the lords the deck run. In particular, Lodestone Golem being a 6/4 after pumped by Overseer/Master becomes a terrifying threat for most decks to deal with.

The prison-strategy is a very important one, despite not being the main-focus of the deck. It synergizes very strongly with Overseer. In scenarios where you are on equal footing on board development, the prison-strategy will slow your opponents down, allowing you to take turns growing your guys with Overseers until they exceed your opponent's board development. What I mean by this is: If your opponent has a board of 2/x's, then growing your guys to x/3's are sufficient to win the board development because they will have to start doing 2-1 trades to answer your board. If your opponent has a board of 3/x's, then growing your guys to x/4's trump the board once again. Without the prison-strategy, you will not be able to have time to develop that board position, and will be forced to play a fair game (or unfair game because your opponent plays better creatures than you).

Postboard, against combo/control, note the importance of the deck switching its roles. Instead on taking the primary role of utilizing aggressive aggro beatdown by tempo advantage, the prison-strategy will be your main strategy with the aggro-strategy backing that up. It is important to identify what roles you are playing and the sideboard is the selection of cards that improves that strategy. It is this very fact that Goblins have finally trumped its problematic Zoo matchup when historically the matchup was a terrible one for Goblins. By switching roles from being the aggressor and finally learning to board out Lackeys and Piledrivers against Zoo, goblins are enjoying tremendous success against a once impossible matchup. In the same light, understanding what Steel Stompy is achieving in games, and what it is capable of achieving in games is the key component to securing wins.


OTHER CARDS WORTH CONSIDERATION IN VARIOUS METAGAMES



SUPPORT CARDS:
Umezawa's Jitte
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Body and Mind

In metagames where there's a ton of tribal, 2 maindeck Jitte is very strong. If it's more Merfolks than Goblins, SoFI is stronger. In metagames where decks are primarily GWx, SoBM is a strong addition (allows you to swing in unblocked, get a 2/2 blocker and repeat-rinse)



LANDS:
Blinkmoth Nexus
Mishra's Factory
Rishadan Port

For lists that desire to be a little more resilient against Pernicious Deed, Null Rod, Serenit, Energy Flux etc, I would opt to cut black and Tezz 2.0 to run more manlands. Factories and Ports aren't too spetacular as possible cards for the deck, but against control-heavier metagames, ports are great.



CREATURES:
Ornithopter

Ornithopter is a great creature for the deck, the same way Affinity utilizes Ornithopters. However, make sure to play enough Cranial Platings (at least 3-4) if you opt to play 2-3 Ornithopters in the deck. Ornithopter also enables metalcraft nicely for the deck, but for most parts, there are just better creatures that you play over Ornithopter in Steel Stompy



LOCKPIECES:
Tangle Wire
Sphere of Resistance
Trinisphere

Depending on your metagame, if it's heavy combo/control, you can use more Sphere of Resistance and/or Trinispheres in the SB. Tangle Wire is a great card in Steel Stompy since Steel Stompy can play very well under Wires. The only problem is Tangle Wire doesn't really solve any matchup at a significant level. It's good as a tempo advantage over decks that need the multiple turns (e.g. Enchantress, combo, Show and Tell), but cutting cards for Tangle Wire usually translates for a loss of tempo on your side as well when deciding what to card. Tangle Wire was mainly played in the past to delay Show and Tell/NO decks, and to slow Pernicious Deed down. With the printing of Phyrexian Metamorph, you now have a decent NO/Show matchup, and it's not worth playing Wires to try to salvage the Pernicious Deed.dec matchup.



OTHER COLOR OPTIONS:
Ethersworn Canonist
Oblivion Ring
Stoneforge Mystic

The white splash is an interesting splash. However the main reason why I tend to avoid it is because I value Perish much more in positively increasing the more problematic GWx matchups than Ethersworn Canonist, who only helps beat the matchups you are already good at (control/combo). Oblivion Ring should be the main reason for playing white (against Deeds/Emrakul) but once again, the printing of Phyrexian Metamorph has solved the NO/Show matchup to a large extent the white splash isn't needed.



4. MATCHUPS AND STRATEGIES

TOURNAMENT RESULTS

For the following matchup, I'll post the strengths/weaknesses of the deck against deck X in boxes and make comments on why/how the matchup is favored and the relevant strategies against such decks.


ZOO
60-40 (favorable)



STRENGTHS

Chalice at 1 will win you games most of the time, with Revoker backing up Chalice naming Qasali Pridemage
Drawing Etched Champion blanks their Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary.
Drawing a Master of Etherium matches Tarmogoyf and Knight (Master is usually still bigger).
Wasteland/Crucible/Lodestone combination hinders their development.
Cranial Plating is used on the defensive to make trades with Zoo's big creatures (since your creatures are usually smaller) or on the offensive with Inkmoth/Champion to usually win in 1-2 turns while your other forces chump/block.
Steel Overseer is not too stellar in this matchup due to removal, but if he gets past the 3/3 body and put your other creatures outside the x/3 range, you can start winning the attrition war and doing favorable trades.
Phyrexian Revoker pro-actively names Qasali Pridemage, and can reactively name Grim Lavamancer and Knight of the Reliquary. For most parts, if my hand is prone to getting out-tempo'd by Pridemage (e.g. a hand that relies on Jitte), then I will name Pridemage, otherwise naming Knight is almost always better since KotR is one of the few cards that really beats Steel Stompy (incredibly large creature and a mini-wastelock on Steel Stompy's manabase).
Perish in the SB beats GWx decks.





WEAKNESS

Turn 1 Wild Nacatl most often gets there if they are on the play. If you are on the play, you can still survive Nacatls with either Chalice in opening or fast Etched Champions. Regardless Etched Champion/Master of Etheriums are required to solidfy your defenses.
Not drawing Chalice does weaken the matchup but only if they draw a heavy Nacatl/burn hand. If they are drawing tons of Knights and Goyfs, they are relatively slow in their board development and you have many answers to a slow Zoo deck e.g. Recurring Inkmoth Nexus, growing dudes bigger than their board, Etched Champion/Master of Etherium, or just racing in the air or with Champion using Cranial Plating.
Postboard, the extra hate they bring in the form of Krosan Grips isn't too relevant but since they are most likely cutting some 1cmc spells, your Chalice plan is weaker while they bring in more hate. Grip is ultimately still 1-1 at 3cmc, so it is not ideal against you. Problems I encountered was Vexing Shusher as a solution to Chalice.



The Zoo matchup isn't unfavorable and for most part is favorable for Steel Stompy due to Steel Stompy's fast board development while slowing down an opponent's development. However, it is one of the harder matchups to play correctly despite being a favorable one. You need to always be aware on what Zoo can burn/remove your plays and this can create huge tempo losses. Sometimes you cannot prevent your creatures from getting burned, but you will have to bait the burn in the correct order. For instance, Steel Overseer is generally bad against Zoo since he is too slow to be safe outside of the x/3 P/T range. However, scenarios are different if you led with a Chalice@1, or a Wasteland screwing them out of mana. Overseer is still critical to winning the game because you need him to grow your 2/1 and 5/3 guys out of the bolt-toughness range, but do not keep hands where Overseers are too slow to do anything against their aggressive gameplan.

For most parts, Lodestone Golem is extremely powerful against Zoo, yet extremely fragile. Depending on your hands, you want to throw out Overseers/Revokers to bait removal to allow Golem to survive. More importantly, you need to keep every Master/Champion alive to avoid losing to their big creature. With the printing of Phyrexian Metamorph, you not only get more copies of Master/Champion, but you can also now take on their Goyf and Knights, which are stronger on your end because they receive pumps from 8 lords in your deck.

Good hands to keep against Zoo are hands with a few of the cards listed below:

Etched Champion + anything
Chalice + anything
Master of Etherium + Revoker naming Pridemage
Master of Etherium/Steel Overseer + Lodestone Golem (putting him outside of 5/3 into 6/4 immediately)
Crucible + Wasteland/Inkmoth/Lodestone + fast-mana


I am still learning how to board correctly against Zoo. Ratchet Bombs may come in to deal with the potential 1cmc creatures that are problematic (Grim Lavamancer and Wild Nacatl). What I have observed is that Ratchet Bombs are weak on the play against Zoo and decent on the draw against Zoo. This is because on the play, you should be leading off with aggressive starts into Chalice/Crucible/Overseer/Champion/Master and force them to answer your threats. If they choose to play Nacatl, the value of the cards mentioned earlier increases and you will match their board development shortly. On the draw, they will definitely lead off usually with Nacatl/lavamancer which blanks out Chalice's effectiveness (you still keep 4 Chalice in). Ratchet Bomb here will catch the eary culprits that will put your life low.


MERFOLKS
(65-35 favorable)



STRENGTHS

Etched Champion is once again very solid on the defense and offense.
Jitte/SoFI presents a big threat.
Overseer is the best card in this matchup, matching their board development of Lords. Merfolks need more than one lord to match Overseer, who provides an ongoing pump effect that forces Merfolks to draw and draw lords i.e. one Overseer in Steel Stompy requires Merfolks to draw more than one card to match him.
Phyrexian Revoker is important naming Vials/Coralhelm.
Master of Etherium and Lodestone Golem are safe beaters (5/3 is a good body against Merfolks).
Standstill is a dead card in their deck unless they lead with an active Vial.





WEAKNESS

Merfolks can out-tempo you with Daze/Wasteland/Vial so always keep that in mind, i.e. do NOT keep hands that lose to Wastelands.
Coralhelm Commander is their trump card so Revoker is critical against him unless you can race the clock.
Merfolk can curve out better than this deck.
Quite a number of dead cards: Crucible of Worlds, Chalice of the Void (only use is to stop Vial, usually not worth it and should be boarded out).



I truly enjoy this matchup despite my hate for Merfolks. The matchup for most parts is in your favor. If they draw a combination of Vial/Force/creatures, it's in their favor. If they draw either of Vial/Force + creatures, the matchup is 50-50. If they draw no Vial/Force and just creatures, I am very favored. Both decks are aggressive, with Steel Stompy usually being more aggressive due to bigger-sized creatures. However, when lords are involved, combat gets very different. The key thing here is to realize that Lord-math really influences the matchup. If they draw more Lords than you do, then you are forced to do unfavorable trades or take some free damage. Similarly, if Overseer comes online faster, Merfolk simply has trouble keeping up with Steel Stompy's army size.

Steel Stompy gets more options with Cranial Plating and Jitte to win the stalemates, and the flying manlands are key when board position is under stalemate. Postboard, boarding out Crucibles and a number of Lodestones (and Chalice if I'm on the draw) is ideal when bringing in 3 Ratchet Bombs and 2 Jittes to improve the matchup. I will not board out Cranial Plating against Merfolks. It's the only unfair trump card you have to break the symmetry between the two decks (the two decks have very similar tempo and board development). Ratchet Bomb is not just effective in answering Vial, but it is critical in sweeping their 2-drops/3-drops.

The goal here is to abuse the fact that Merfolk plays FoW. You want Merfolk to use FoW whenever they can because this means one less creature against you, which from testing has proved to be highly critical to break the symmetry of board position. The best you can hope for against this matchup that makes it a cakewalk is if they draw a creature-light hand, then you will simply beat them down (the same goes against you, so it's best to mull to aggressive hands with enough threats to match theirs, this is why forcing them to pitch a creature to FoW is very worth it).


BLUE-CONTROL (Landstill, Countertop, Jace-control)



STRENGTHS

Wasteland/Crucible/Rishadan Port/manlands is a big problem for control.
Phyrexian Revoker names Top/Jace/EE which forces them to spend an StP or another removal on Revoker while your bigger threats get in.
Etched Champion is immune to everything sans Mishra's Factory, Maze of Ith and EE.
Master of Etherium functions as a Merfolk Lord creating a big force and beating hard by himself
Lodestone Golem is MVP in the matchup when resolved and shines when Wastelands are paired together.
Chalice@1 rocks hard.
Steel Overseer is the greatest threat (with/without flying manlands).
They can sweep your board but you will still end up with flying manlands (possibly with Overseer counters) that get past Humility/Moat.
A resolved Tezzeret means that they will lose the turn after Tezzeret comes online.





WEAKNESSES

Really none, but sometimes control can get in there with Planeswalkers after countering a ton of stuff and having multiple sweepers.
You need to watch out for Firespout and if they do recur EE, it's time to scoop it up unless you have enough manlands.



This matchup is very very favored for Steel Stompy. The key reason why Steel Stompy enjoys a much stronger control matchup is due to its philosophy. Unlike other Stompy decks e.g. Dragonstompy, Steel Stompy is not focused on powering out huge threats with a ton of resources (cards/mana). Steel Stompy is focused on minimizing resources yet maximizing its board position. Against control, you have over 20 creatures (Revoker and Lodestone being disruptive, Master and Overseers being must-answers, Champion being immune to most removal) to pressure control. On top of that, you are creating even more pressure from Chalice and Crucible and Wastelands. Contrast this to decks like Dragonstompy where they spend 3-4 cards powering out 1 lockpiece and 1 threat. When these are handled, the deck starts to fold and lose its position. Steel Stompy plays out similarly to Merfolks against control: keeping the pressure up while disrupting. The backup plan when they do finally gain control is to rely on flying manlands to finish the job.

Postboard, it becomes very unfavorable for Control if they do not pack relevant hate-cards. You will have a new suite of 4 Thorn of Amethyst and 2-3 Winter Orbs (boarding out Equipments) against them. If they are playing Thopter Foundry/Decree/Elspeth, Ratchet Bombs are always helpful. Always FoW-bait whenever possible to tax their resources/cards or to make them play FoW incorrectly. Tezzeret 2.0 now also provides an additional win-condition outside of the combat phase if the control players ever play too many Moat/Humility/Ensnaring Bridges.



TOURNAMENT HISTORIES

Top 4 split: 3-1 (14 man)
Round 1: Merfolks (2-0)
Round 2: Bant (2-0)
Round 3: Zoo (1-2)
Top 4: ???

1st place: 4-1 (9 man)
Round 1: UB Merfolks (2-1)
Round 2: Zoo (1-2)
Round 3: Junk and Taxes (2-0)
Top 4: Zoo (2-1)
Top 2: UB Merfolks (2-1)

2-2 (8 man)
Round 1: Countertop (2-1)
Round 2: CABJace (1-2)
Round 3: ???
Round 4: UB Merfolks (1-2)

Top 4: 3-1 (10 man)
Round 1: UB Merfolks (2-1)
Round 2: Big Zoo (1-2)
Round 3: Enchantress (2-0)
Round 4: Lands (2-0)
Top 4: Big Zoo (1-2)

SCG Legacy Opens DFW - 27th Place 5-3: (~150-200 man)
Round 1: Belcher (2-0)
Round 2: Death and Taxes (2-1)
Round 3: GW NOrder (1-2)
Round 4: Team America (0-2)
Round 5: Bye
Round 6: Merfolks (2-0)
Round 7: Goblins (2-0)
Round 8: Imperial Painter (0-2)

GP Providence Trial: Top 4: 4-1 (17 man)
Round 1: Merfolk (2-0)
Round 2: Junk (1-2)
Round 3: RB Goblins (2-1)
Round 4: Pox (2-1)
Round 5: TES (2-0)
Top 4: Drop since I'm not going to the GP and don't want to compete for byes from my buddies

Top 4: 4-0 (13 man)
Round 1: Spiral Tide (2-1)
Round 2: Imperial Painter (2-0)
Round 3: NO Bant (2-1)
Round 4: Enchantress (2-0)
split top 4


CREDITS AND CONCLUSIONS

Many thanks to:


Friends at Asgard Games who help me test the deck.
Drew (drewliusmaximus) who has ordered pieces for the deck :P
Jeff (Esper3k) and Thomas (admiral_arzar) for providing feedback on the deck.




Plm: suggested Playing Inkmoth Nexus over Factories/Blinkmoths, and emphasizing the power level of Cranial Plating.
bruizzar: randomnly introducing the idea of Tezz 2.0 which I dismissed, although he was opting entirely to play a different deck, but the idea to play Tezz 2.0 was still provided from him :P
rukcus: Suggesting the 2/4 Diamond/Opal split, and testing the deck.
knightelite: Testing lists, and pointing out Tezz 2.0 + Inkmoth Interactions don't work the way I wanted it to be (i.e. keep a 5/5 flying infect :P)
alterego: making me explore more evasive creatures, which led to inclusion of Ornithopter, which led to the realization of the importance on turn 2 Metalcraft, which led to further iterations down the road.
spooks: advocating for Tezz 2.0
mayckol and many others for reading, and having an interest in the deck!

[Clark Kant]

Why not play 4 Metalworkers so that you can dump your entire hand the very next turn while leaving you plenty of spare mana to pump your manlands. At the very worst, it will draw a removal spell that would have hit one of your other creatures instead.

[perm]

I'd say MW is a sideboard possibility, to SB in for revoker, but that's at best.


Anyway, I implore you to consider Sphere of Resistance and 2-3 Esperzoa. Sphere stacks wonderfully with golem and has very little drawback for you as colorless is plently, and esperzoa is great for bouncing relatively inert and replayable artifacts for a super efficient beater and cranial carrier.

[Windux]

I definitly would fit in Thoughtcast. Draw 2 cards for U is the best draw, you can have in legacy.

[GGoober]

@Clark: MW has been tried in other stompy builds that I tested but does not go in the overall strategy of this deck. MW is best used in decks that are truly powering out critical threats that win games e.g. Forgemaster, Wurmcoils, Smokestack.

The list I've proposed is basically a cluster of efficient beaters in the artifact family. I've not tested MW in this list personally but I've tested MW more than enough to know that he won't do much for this deck. The only slot he would replace is Revoker but Revoker is currently doing much more for this deck than MW simply because I have nothing to abuse with MW and if I wanted to add stuff to abuse with MW, it would develop into a different approach and a different deck. MW decks tend to want to overextend and play out huge bombs, and this deck isn't about playing bombs, it's playing cards that are skewing tempo development (your lords pump, your other dudes disrupt).

Even if I could find space, the list will sometimes play Metalworker out turn 1 to dump hands on turn 2 which is great, but if Metalworker cannot be played turn 1, it would dump my hands on turn 3 and later, which this deck is already achieving without Metalworker. Most importantly, I don't really have anything to abuse with Metalworker and if I cut something for Metalworker, my curve is shifting towards a heavier 3cmc, which puts more condition on playable turn 1 spells. If I do want to play MW, I would need Grim Monoliths to increase his playability turn 1, but that turns the deck into a different deck.

@perm: I've tested Spheres in 9-12ball in Legacy. It was considerably weak. Currently, it will have great synergy with Lodestone and/or Wasteland, but Sphere has always been a win-more in matchups that I am already winning. What I mean is this: Against Vial/Noble Hierarch, Sphere does nothing, against decks without Vial/Noble Hierarch, this deck is capable of fighting those decks pretty favorably and Sphere will improve the favored matchups more. Sphere hasn't been able to make the weaker Vial/Noble Hierarch/Lackey/Goyf matchups better. There were many times where I can go Ancient Tomb->Sphere and I lose to a well-timed Wasteland (although this build runs more lands so it's worth testing again). The problem with 9-12ball in Legacy was simply: If you don't draw your lockpieces before they land Hierarch/Vial/Goyf, you're out of the picture since you run little threats that can answer the threats your opponents landed earlier.

I do love Spheres in the SB, where if I'm on the play, they're insanely powerful or they function best in matchups where they are best in (i.e. control/combo). If there's another taxing effect to try out, it's Rishadan Port. I'm still working on testing 3 Ports over 3 Blinkmoth Nexus. 4 Manlands and 20 creatures should be enough synergy with Overseer, but I really like having 7 manlands for extra board development without spending any additional resources since an online Overseer/Master pumps these critters for free.

Esperzoa is great, but I can't support another 3-4 blue cards without adding blue sources or cutting other lands.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I definitly would fit in Thoughtcast. Draw 2 cards for U is the best draw, you can have in legacy.

Thoughtcast is pretty good. The problem is, this list is incredibly tight. Everything has interlocking synergy with everything else, and there's not really anything that can be cut, other than lands. However, this is built on consistency, and cutting lands would decrease that significantly. In addition, only ten blue sources isn't really enough to consistently cast more blue cards.

Also, Metalworker should not be in here because it pushes the deck more towards dropping stupid bombs at the expense of consistency. Notably, this deck has no stupid bombs to drop in with the guy. If you want that, visit the Meandeck MUD thread. This deck doesn't care if you remove its first disruptive dude as it will just play more. If you rely on Metalworker, your strategy starts to collapse when it dies.

[GGoober]

Admiral, you said it right completely. The list is very tight now. The only slots I can really cut are Crucibles/Accelerants/Equipments. Crucible itself will give more card-advantage (with lands/manlands/wastelands) more than Thoughtcast, and Jitte is by itself another source of advantage. Plating is really there to win games faster.

Anyway, I did find some interesting ways to improve the existing list. I tested out Rishadan Ports (goldfishing about 50 games, will have to do real testing this saturday) and it turned out to be very strong pairing up with Wasteland, Moxens, and Lodestone (postboard Port with Winter Orb+Moxen and Port with Thorn is another big tool using your lands as tools against control/combo).

The changes I made with reasoning are:
-1 Island
-3 Blinkmoth Nexus
+4 Rishadan Port

-1 Crucible
+1 Mox Opal

Dropping to 4 manlands loses some synergy with Steel Overseer, however, in games where you do not draw Steel Overseers, the Blinkmoth do nothing. It's also sometimes hard to have the mana to attack with 7 manlands in the deck and this deck is always almost constantly playing creatures everyturn (creature count is very high in the deck). Ideal case maybe to drop 3 Nexus for 3 Ports and the Island for the 5th manland (Blinkmoth) to retain the synergy to some extent, but I feel that Port has been really stellar in testing.

You can get the openings of Mox Diamond->Port which acts as a Pseudo wasteland. I've cut the Crucibles to 2 now with the changes. There are times where double Crucibles are drawn, and most games wastelock is win-more anyway. With the addition of Port, Port itself acts as a pseudo mini Wastelock since you are always tapping down 1 land (this time a basic!). There is a drawback to ports, since it is tempo trade on your board development as well, but so far the synergies of port in a list with 3 Diamonds, 3 Opals and 8 Sol-Lands offsets this drawback to some extent.

The more games I play, the more convinced I feel that Mox Opal is a completely unfair card if you're playing an artifact deck in Legacy. It is essentially a Vintage Moxen (only if you play artifact.dec so metalcraft isn't an issue.

I've upped the Opal to x3, and there are times where I draw x2 Opals, but that has been about 7/50 games. Regardless, I want to see a turn 2 Opal almost all the time. From more testing, I found that the 4/2 Diamond/Opal split is weaker than the 3/3 Diamond/Opal split. The reasoning being:

4 Diamond leads to more consistent turn 1 openings with Diamond whcih is great, but it also greatly increases the drawing of x2 Diamonds. 3 Opal does not lead to as often x2 Opal-draws compared to running 4 Diamonds. When you do draw the 2nd Diamond, it's usually almost a dead-card. Since playing that 2nd Diamond involves pitching yet another land (so you have used 1 land a diamond, played a land, and now playing another diamond pitching a land, that's a total of 5 cards to generate 3 mana on turn 2. Contrast this with 1 Opal + 2 land giving the same 3 mana on turn 2). The more I play this deck, the stronger I see Mox Opal in artifact decks, and it's finally made its way into a 3/3 split. I've considered cutting the lone Island instead of the 3rd Crucible to play a 3/3 split but this deck is very land-hungry for some reasons. I really hate drawing less than 2 lands in this deck, which STILL FUCKING happens. It's like Landstill hates me and wants to punish me for playing 24 lands by mana-screwing me. I also considered dropping Cranial Plating to x2 instead of x3 to fit the third Opal, but the Plating has proven to be a valuable tool against aggro and control matchups. It gives your small Revoker a big power to do favorable trades, and just wins instantly with Champion/Inkmoth when online.

Regardless, the changes show quite a lot of potential. The list for this saturday would be:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Seat of Synod
4 Inkmoth Nexus (this card is absurdly good in the deck, 1 turn wins with plating, 2 turn wins with Overseer)

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem

3 Cranial Plating
2 Umezawa's Jitte

3 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds

SB:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Winter Orb
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Tangle Wire
2 Razormane Masticore
1 Sword of Fire/Ice

[Mr. Safety]

I can't help but think "what can Ethersworn Canonist do for this deck?" I know, I know. The list is tight. Splashing a 2nd color isn't even a real option. Still, it would be so cool to play with impunity while your opponent is sitting on one spell a turn. Seems like it would help the combo matchup immensely.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I can't help but think "what can Ethersworn Canonist do for this deck?" I know, I know. The list is tight. Splashing a 2nd color isn't even a real option. Still, it would be so cool to play with impunity while your opponent is sitting on one spell a turn. Seems like it would help the combo matchup immensely.

As I am the combo player that he generally tests against, I'm going to go out on a limb and say his postboard doesn't need to get any better against combo. 4 Chalice, 4 Revoker, 4 Lodestone Golem, 4 Thorn of Amethyst, plus Wasteland, Winter Orb, Rishadan Port, and Tanglewire? That's absolutely absurd. Canonist is completely unnecesary, as this deck just hoses basically any combo deck postboard. It's quite capable of getting there preboard as well, with correct mulligans and a little luck (same as any chalice deck, except this one packs Wasteland/Port, Revoker, and Lodestone Golem in addition). Honestly, the only way you lose to combo post board (short of just bad lack) is them getting the nuts and comboing before you drop lock pieces, or them drawing so much disruption that they counter/discard away all your relevant cards and then kill you.

EDIT: @ Metalwalker: I'm interested in how the Ports perform. It seems like the extra disruption would work wonders in some matchups, but without AEther Vial it might slow you down an unnacceptable amount at times.

[Plm]

Hi,

What happenened to the lone island ? With 6 moxen you won't be wasted out of the blue, but I liked the idea of not turning path to exile into a better sword to plowshare. Why not playing 3 synod / 1 island ? lord of atlantis? metalcraft? moe?

Glad to see you finally saw the strengh of inkmoth.

Going to 4 manland is a bit on the light side, isn't it ? When playing with the full 12 manland I have enjoyed smashing the control mach up, but thats true that half of them served to power on the others, so I can understand swiching to port.

Cranial is back!!! That's the right choice, it s so powerfull with champion/inkmoth, but mostly you can trade revoker or a small overseer against Goyf ( or any random fatguy) where the swords don't do as much .

I really enjoy where the deck is heading, will continue to play it, will post a report if next tournament is insightfull.

[GGoober]

Hey guys,

Small tourney (8 man) did bad 2-2.

Once again, needs testing because 4 Ports looked like tits on paper, but in practice didn't perform as well. It was real hot tapping down Maze of Ith though.

I played
Countertop (2-1)
My deck actually semi-folds to active Countertop. Postboard I try to change that: +2 Winter Orb, +4 Thorn, +3 Ratchet Bomb. Game 2 I had him locked under Orb and beat him down. Last game, Orb came back as well, but he owned me with 5 basics into Back to Basics off an Etutor. He was still short on lands. I played port, tapped his lands down and try to get in with 4/4 Overseer (he was at 16 when overseer was 3/3, I grew overseer to 4/4 and rode him to victory over 4 turns).

CABJace (1-2)
had him down to 1-life before he EE-lock me out with Ruins and Wastelocked me with Crucible. Both games he had me EE AND Wastelocked out. Was tough. Maze of Ith stalled that one crucial turn.

Forgot the next matchup, but I won.

UB Merfolks (1-2)
He leads with Aether Vial every game I've played against him. Steel Overseer and Inkmoth drops him to 6 poison counters. He wastes inkmoth and has 2 vials active. Proceeds to dump dudes. I topdeck Inkmoth 2 turns later while stalling with my board. I grow Inkmoth EOT to 2/2, Swing in with Inkmoth pump to 3/3 and with Master's passive, wins with 4 poison to 10. He was at 19 life that game, I was at 3 life :P

Postboard Razormane masticore lost me both games. Terrible card against Merfolks. It's not going to resolve anyway lol. Last game I drew quite a lot of land, but had Razormane + Champion + Overseer. Still not enough since everything else was lands.

However, some important lessons learned from that tourney:

1) Merfolk is still very much favorable (much better than 50-50 than I previously tested) but my postboards end up screwing me over.
- Razormane Masticore is horrible. The UB Merfolk list I played against had Snuff Outs SB (which btw is amazing in UB Merfolks i.e. spend all my mana developing my board, spend all my free spells as disruptions/counters/removal). Razormane 2 games actually costed me both games. It was slow, and card-disadvantage and tempo dis-advantage. I would be packing 2 SoFI in the SB instead of Razormane from now on.

2) Rishadan Port is great, but not as great as 6-7 manlands.
I would say that had my Ports been manlands, I could have won the matchups I lost to Countertop/CABJace more favorably. Port is great when they are on a lock, or you are working towards a lock. But once they start making land drop it's significantly weaker. What's amazing about the manlands are they fly, and will present big problems against control lists playing Firespout/EE/Ensnaring Bridge/Moat (Bridge was annoying)

Current manabase configuration would be:
4 Seat
4 Inkmoth
2 Blinkmoth
2 Ports
4 Wasteland
4 City
4 Ancient Tomb

I think 6 manlands is quite necessary. Ports looked really good on paper, but in practice, having a manland on turn 1-3 to be pumped by Overseer/Master was more invaluable as both defense/offense. More critically, the manlands fly, which presents a huge threat to Planeswalkers, breaking stalemates on the ground.

Cranial Plating was stellar. I'm quite convinced it's more powerful than Jitte in the deck although the deck needs 2 Jittes against Gobs and Zoo. The 3/3 Diamond/Opal split was great. I only drew double Opal twice, and thankfully not see double Diamonds if I were to run the 4/2 split. The 3rd Crucible was missed since Crucible is so good. With 6 manlands now, I might try to find space for the 3rd Crucible since it's strong with manlands.

@Plm: I cut the Island because only Zoo plays Path. Bant sometimes in the SB. There are quite a ton of decks in Legacy, and I have rarely seen Path outside of Zoo, which you will kill Path if you played a Chalice (so further narrowing the chances you see Path). I accept that my deck loses to Wastelock (which was how CABJace beat me twice). Other than that, I can't deal with Wastelock so that's an inherent weakness of the deck I won't change since it will dilute its strategy too much.

3rd Opal feels like cheating when you draw one frequently on turn 2. There is still a fundamental problem with the deck. Having the 6th-8th Artifact land will greatly improve metalcraft. I usually get metalcraft turn 2-3, but not guaranteed turn 2. This has presented some tempo loss in the form of developing my board. Perhaps I should drop the ports and go with 2 Dark Citadel to support Metalcraft. That would make the tempo development on turn 2 stronger, but I'm not sure yet. All I know is sometimes I do not hit metalcraft turn 2, and that has costed me a few games (i.e. 1 swing from winning, or a turn slower where Lodestone/Crucible would had been more backbreaking).

Thanks for testing the list Plm. Your suggestions are very important so far. Basically I was heading in a more prison-controllish approach where you are going for the throat with 12 manlands. I ended up realizing that the deck is most similar to Merfolks-aggro than any other form of aggro, so when I identified the role of the deck, I went ahead on optimizing card selection. A lot more testing needed, but I think Factory is a waste in the deck. Does not break stalemates, can't kill Jace when needed, and doesn't win games in 1-2 turns. Inkmoth is just stupid good in the deck. Its actually one of the few cards that makes me like a Standard card. I might revert back to 7-8 manlands, but I'm at the same time working out statistics for the deck.

One big thing that I could probably never get to pilot this deck to its fullest is based on two curses I have with MTG:
1) Losing die rolls (I think on average, I win 25% of dice rolls, or less). I really feel like quitting MTG because of this (like seriously, not even joking, it's like freaking try hard and end up not worth it because you can't even make 40%-50% of your die rolls).

2) Drawing less than 2 lands opening hands in over 40% of games. This has been a bane since I started playing Landstill. I always played with 24, because I just can't draw lands opening hands (and no, it's not Wasteland, it's lands in my hand). With this deck, 24 lands, I have mulled 4/9 games last weekend, due to drawing 0-1 lands in my opening hands. Please remind me why I should play MTG when the maths doesn't add up lol. If it's a shuffling technique, I don't care and need to learn how to stack my deck. I need to learn how to RANDOMIZE my deck so I can trust the maths/statistics..

Here's the calculations (easy one I did):
Drawing X Lands in Hand
Lands in Deck

5 4 3 2 1
26 9.56% 23.16% 31.22% 23.42% 9.05%
25 8.19% 21.44% 31.18% 25.22% 10.51%
24 6.93% 19.64% 30.87% 26.94% 12.10%
23 5.80% 17.82% 30.29% 28.56% 13.84%
22 4.79% 15.98% 29.43% 30.02% 15.73%
21 3.90% 14.16% 28.33% 31.31% 17.74%
20 3.13% 12.39% 26.98% 32.37% 19.88%
19 2.47% 10.70% 25.41% 33.18% 22.12%
18 1.91% 9.10% 23.65% 33.70% 24.45%
17 1.45% 7.61% 21.73% 33.90% 26.84%
16 1.07% 6.24% 19.68% 33.74% 29.24%
15 0.77% 5.02% 17.55% 33.22% 31.63%
14 0.54% 3.93% 15.38% 32.30% 33.95%
13 0.36% 3.00% 13.21% 30.98% 36.14%
12 0.23% 2.22% 11.08% 29.26% 38.13%


As you can see, with 24 lands, the highest probability to draw X lands is X=3, followed by X=2 lands. Obviously, I always draw X=1 lands with 12% probability. The chances of me drawing less than 2 lands is: 12.10% + probability of drawing no-lands (~4%). Go figure.

[Admiral_Arzar]

2) Drawing less than 2 lands opening hands in over 40% of games. This has been a bane since I started playing Landstill. I always played with 24, because I just can't draw lands opening hands (and no, it's not Wasteland, it's lands in my hand). With this deck, 24 lands, I have mulled 4/9 games last weekend, due to drawing 0-1 lands in my opening hands. Please remind me why I should play MTG when the maths doesn't add up lol. If it's a shuffling technique, I don't care and need to learn how to stack my deck. I need to learn how to RANDOMIZE my deck so I can trust the maths/statistics..


Pile shuffle in seven piles, then make two piles out of those, and riffle them together seven times. Alternate riffling directions so you bend cards both ways, resulting in no bending. This is what I do, and I rarely mulligan due to manascrew, even in decks with 14-16 lands. Also, make sure your sleeves are decent.

As for the changes, I agree that manlands are probably more important than Ports, at least pre-board. Winter Orb/Tanglewire is what makes Port really brutal. Your 6 manlands/2 ports sounds like a good split. I can see Razormane being bad against Merfolk lol, SOFI should be much better.

[SMR0079]

You could follow the SFM plan and go in an entirley different direction. You could customize it quite a bit, but the idea is to move away from the pump effects and just play a solid disrupt and beat strategy with explosive possibilities. Seems like a nice compromise between the Bomholt deck and a consistent beatdown strategy. Also has good game agaisnt combo which is great when you are aggro.

3 SFM
4 Metal Worker
4 Lodestone Golemn
4 Wurmcoil
4 Steel Hellkite

4 CotV
4 Trinisphere
3 Crucible
4 Equipment???

4 Monolith
2 Mox Diamond?
4 Waste
8 Tomb/City
4 Adakar
4 Plains

SB:
4 Revoker
4 Canonist
4 Crypt
3 Rachet Bomb

[GGoober]

The main success of Bomholt's deck is packing keys with monoliths. Without key, you will have to rely almost solely on Metalworker or hands with multiple Sol-lands and Monoliths to power out Hellkites and Wurmcoils.

I could see Key being cut in his list, but once that's gone, it becomes less appealing to run Wurmcoils and Hellkites that come out 1-2 turn slower. And I think we all fully understand why every turn matters to Stompy, it's not really about your opponents getting an extra hit with Goyf or an extra turn to answer your threats, it's really about the extra turn that critically outweighs their options at that turn. Bomholt's deck is based on that philosophy: churn out stuff ASAP on turn 2. If you cut the keys, you're going to be much less likely to churn these threats out.

My only problem with Metalworker is: aside from Bomholt's MUD list, he has been subpar in any other stompy build. And when he is good, he is deceivingly good i.e. you would have won those games without Metalworker anyway. The reason being: there is always removal for metalworker, but the issue isn't if you can connect him before removal hits (like Lackey), it's about what you're pairing him up with your entire deck. Metalworker has sucked quite bad in all the iterations of Stompy we've seen until Bomholtz, and even then, Bomholtz does not solely rely on Metalworker to power out threats. In your list, Grim monoliths are fine, but they lose a ton of power without key, being a bad Dark Ritual/Lotus Petal that gets past Chalice at 0.

From my experience prior to Bomholt's decklist (Bomholt's list provides a lot more insight as to why other stompy variants failed where he succeeded), I can safely tell you that running Metalworker in a deck of prison-cards e.g. 3 Trinisphere + 3 crucible + more prison card is a bad idea. Why? If you are leading with turn 1 Metalworker, you could have well played out a lockpiece in the first place. Bomholtz demonstrated that his list was successful, and some analysis signals that the very high bomb-threat in his deck is directly co-related to playing with Metalworker and Grim Monolith. Why has MW and monolith builds not succeeded previously? Because they were focused on some bombs but unlike bomholtz, there was just not enough bomb. metalworker simply became: accelerate drop lockpiece than hope to draw a beater or probably just draw lockpieces and sit there being a 1/2. Bomholtz list allows him to keep dropping threats/bombs, with Lodestone being a disruptive threat on an impressive body (the reason why I run this guy because he's that impressive).

What is Adakar? It's an interesting list though, but I want to stress the approach of Steel Stompy is to be as consistent as possible, and when I mean by consistent it's like drawing hands that don't have to rely on specific cards to be good i.e. you can always keep a hand as long as it's not mana-screw/flood, and only need to mull when you are paired against a specific matchup.

In testing, Overseer has pretty much amusingly been the best card in the deck. There are a number of matchups where you want to board him out, and that's against Sligh, combo, and combo and combo. Otherwise, he matches aggro decks on par in terms of overall tempo development (he sucks early game, but after 2 turns, he's the greatest pain if no one has removed him).

One big thing I need to really work on, is figure ideal sideboard/maindeck slots i.e. how do i board correctly to win matchups. last week, Tangle Wire was completely useless, and on paper I can think of matchups where they are good, but when actualyl playing, I still don't have slots to board them out against said-matchups. I would say that if I had a 3rd Winter Orb, and other relevant SB cards, I could have done better last week.

[Zork]

Adarkar = Adarkar Wastes?

Seems unnecessary in a deck with no blue. I'd play Ghost Quarter or Flagstones first.

[SMR0079]

Good analysis of Key's role in Bomholtz brew. I cut it because it's the least relavant card on it's own but it may be the "glue" that holds that deck together as you suggest.

[GGoober]

My analysis is only based on blarknob's statement "Key cannot be cut", and limited playtesting, but yeah, it is quite critical in what the deck needs to get accomplished. For very similar reasons, my current list is really tight. I've been trying a couple of cards with the Crucible/Equipment/Accelerant slots and still optimizing it. Sure, you can cut 4 Etched Champion or 4 Revokers/Overseer, but since the list was built mainly on synergy, that will be compromised (for the same reason you can cut Keys in Meandeck MUD no problem, but there will be less synergy in generating huge mana early). Last week I played with 2 Crucibles, and definitely felt the need for 3 back. It's not just powerful with Wasteland, but was much needed for its own instability with Mox Diamond/City of Traitors/Opposing Wastes and increasing the power of manlands.

I'm back to 3 again in the most recent list (posted above). Until I find a way to consistently beat the Zoo/Merfolks/Gobs cluster (which I probably won't in the near future without knowing exactly what is needed for Stompy to beat these decks, i.e. I'm trying to really step out and observe how Zoo/Merfolks/Goblins win games and attacking their weak point instead of thinking the old-saying "turn 1 Trinisphere ggn00bs" because such thinking has proven to be true when it works and totally untrue when it doesn't work, and sadly this strategy really doesn't work as often as it used to). All I know is 2 Jitte is a must since it's a good card against these 3 aggro cluster. Cranial Plating maybe questionable but the testing so far is a little ambiguous i.e. I don't know for sure if my games are won with Plating via fast attack/racing or if Cranial Plating isn't crucial for me to win those matchups e.g. Plating on Champion/Inkmoth. Still a lot more testing to do. Control/Countertop is still quite favorable although last week proved that good Legacy cards can beat mediocore cards. My sideboard was terrible and worthless last week aside from 4 Thorns and 2 Winter Orb.

Despite creating the initial core of the deck and understanding the basis on where this deck is heading, I'm still learning quite a lot from this deck itself, and it goes to prove that there is more to the deck/archetype that can be optimized. E.g. When I went for more controllish approaches to aggressive matchups like Zoo, I tend to lose. The way to beat Zoo is to be even more aggressive e.g. mulling aggressively into Champion or Chalice or Crucible/manlands. I would have never figured out that being more aggressive against the Merfolk matchup is better than being on the defensive keeping 4 Chalice maindeck trying to shut out Vials on the play. In fact, recent playtesting, I've entirely boarded out 4 Chalice on the play/draw against Merfolks. The key reason being: Merfolks can only draw that many cards (+1 Adept, +3 Standstill which doesn't work against this deck). Running Chalice makes it only worthwhile on the play against Vial. AGainst Merfolks, the successful strategy was to be more aggressive: pack more creatures (bigger ones so that you force them to draw lords to match yours, this is where Overseer is the best card against the deck), and run more equipment to outclass their creatures. Force them to FoW/Daze and offset tempo. Since they only draw that many cards against you, you are quite on par, and start gaining advantage once the board is equivalent or you get Champion/Inkmoth out. This is entirely opposite to Goblins, where I HAVE to play 4 Chalice on the play. It shuts down Lackey + Vial, which is key. Goblins, unlike Merfolks will be able to outdraw you, race you faster, so the initial game is important, and it's harder to maintain the gamestate against Goblins when Vial is in play. AGainst Merfolks, once again, they can only draw that many cards, so you really should be happy to see them pitch a creature to their FoW and having made 2 land drops and a Vial in play aka they have 2 creatures in hand and you have about 3-4, plus all the equipment you're going to start drawing.

All these observations won't be possible without playtesting and feedback, so there is still a ton for me to learn how to accurately view my matchup against various decks, and work out a good sideboard. Thanks for all the feedback/suggestions though.

[ivanpei]

This is interesting and fun. I think you are stretching your mana base too much for Master of Ethirium though. I agree he is the tits, but is the splash really worth it? You could play totally mono brown with arcbound ravager instead of Master. Ravager seems pretty decent with Overseer as ravager can sack itself to give other dudes +1/+1. Now you have more drops at 2cc, making the 2cc creature Turn 1, Equipment T2 plan much more feasible.

Your manabase could look like this:
4 Waste
4 Factory
4 Blinkmoth
4 Darksteel
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

And the rest of the deck would look like this:

4 Steel
4 Revoker
4 Ravager
4 Champion
4 Lodestone

4 Chalice
2 Opal
2 Diamond
3 Crucible
3 Cranial
2 Jitte

You can then cut your Diamonds and opals down to 2 each to prevent drawing multiples. Now you have up to 8 manlands without worrying too much about your coloured count. I personally think factory is better. This deck is aggro, and you want your manlands to deal real damage and not poison counters. I know that inkmoth is better at defense where you can recur it and shrink creatures, but on the aggro end, I prefer mishra's.

[GGoober]

Ivan,

Regarding mana issues with Master, that has not cropped up much. In a total of perhaps 100+ games tested since the deck's inception, There were about 5-7 games where I had truly dead Masters in hand. What I mean by truly dead Masters is: my hand has nothing else to cast except Masters and I don't draw the blue source. This number is generally small, and over the course of time, I will draw the blue source to play the Master. Most of the time, I always have something to play (since the deck isn't 1/3 accelerants bent on powering out threats the way Dragonstompy is).

What makes Master an important pivotal piece to the deck is the following reason (and the reasons are based off testing):
1) You need Master to match Goyf.dec. Decks playing Goyfs/knights/big dudes can be solved with Etched Champion, but 4 Etched Champion isn't dense enough to handle the matchups. Master counts as the 5th-8th answer against such creatures, and many times I have to draw either Champion/Master to start winning. No other creature aside from Master in the artifact familiar fulfills this role (no creatures that are castable without Metalworker/monolith that is)

2) Master as the 5th-8th lord is highly critical in the deck's winning strategy. Over time, when analyzing what this deck wants to do, I came to the conclusion that my win-strategy was to: Overwhelm, have creatures with P/T in the range of forcing opponents to make unfavorable trades. Master is the faster Overseer in the deck i.e. he will come down apply lord effects instantly, and beat for huge damage himself. Overseer is obviously more powerful over turns, but Master puts the pressure right there when he's in play.

3) Pumps Lodestone to 6/4 is critical in Legacy avoiding the 3 damage range from Nacatl, bolts, and kililng 6/6 knights or 5/6 Goyfs. Pumping Champion also allows you to start killing Zoo/Merfolk lords when needed.

Why Ravager was not played anymore:
Before MBS was spoiled, Ravager was the only good 2cmc slot before Phyrexian Revoker and was the slot I played. Even before then, Ravager was subpar. Here're the reasons:

1) He disables or restricts Metalcraft, i.e. you can never sac enough artifacts while balancing Metalcraft
2) He goes against the very principle of the deck (biggest reason) to have a superior board position.
3) He only truly shines against removal i.e. nullifying removal by saccing, but even then, you usually need Chalice out to stop StP before you move counters over to inkmoth/champion.
4) Ravager is actually very very weak without Disciple. I played Ravager pre-MBS and he was good at certain times, but most of the time he was either costing me my board position (saccing artifacts without Disciple has much less value than it looks), or winning-more. The greatest strength of Ravager was to dodge removal for your other dudes.

When the deck started focusing on building up similarly to Merfolks and applying lord effects, ravager became obvious that he was going against that principle.


Inkmoth v.s. factory:
I have tested over 70+ games with factories, and only about 30+ games with Inkmoth, but all I can say Inkmoth is very superior over factory. Inkmoth is much weaker if you don't play Platings so if for some reason you need to cut Platings for better MD cards or relevant cards against a specific metagame, I'd go with Factories. But it is hard to cut Plating given the synergy with champion/Inkmoth, and just in general being the most unfair equipment when playing an artifact deck.

Factories over 70+ games are only good if you have overseer in play i.e. growing them bigger than goyfs to start swinging in. Inkmoth/Blinkmoth do not need the requirement of drawing lords/overseer. Once you have a neutral ground board position, you can start winning in the air. Regarding the poison/damage split, I was worried about this as well, but I decided to test against that worry (as suggested by Plm) and it turned out much better. The reason is:

1) In situations where factories cannot attack (a lot of the time), you are wasting turns not being able to swing in. In such situations, Inkmoth goes in. If you have 1 Lord (master) then it's a 5 turn clock. If you have Overseer, it's a 3 turn clock, if you have Plating it's a 1-2 turn clock
2) Irregardless, Inkmoth is still superior to Blinkmoth. The reason being, assuming no lords, the 1 damage from Blinkmoth is almost negligible despite the damage already done to players by ground units e.g. If an opponent is at 10 life with blinkmoth, Inkmoth still outraces Blinkmoth. Once a lord is involved, or Plating comes in, Inkmoth is ages faster.
3) Inkmoth, contrary to what you think, is way better on the aggression than defense. I don't block with Inkmoth unless I am planning to shrink dudes so that my ground forces make opponent's trades unfavorable in future turns. With a lord out, you can shrink units -2/-2. The only time you want to use Inkmoth on the defensive is when you are attempting to win the ground battle by making your dudes bigger than opponents and force them into unfavorable trades, or if you draw Crucible/Inkmoth, which is quite powerful.

[Koby]

I think that 24 lands may be too many. I've been running 22 with 5 moxen and that works out really well. We already have Crucible to replay lands, and with have moxen to accelerate. The full 8-Sollands are helpful here to that effect as well. The problem I've been facing in my testing is that I draw into mana clumps with no action.

I don't see why Thoughtcast can't also be included. It's a very beneficial card in this deck that doesn't get affected (greatly) by Golem, Chalice, and the SB Thorns.

[GGoober]

22-23 lands should be ideal, and I agree with you, but I just cant draw lands myself (like seriously) so I've been playing 24 (and still getting mana screwed v.s. mana flooded). Regarding the correct ratio of counts. I'll be able to figure that out in a month. I have a spreadsheet that is calculating all the optimal number of cards I should be playing in the deck (obviously this is the theory, but the practice is to play the deck and test it out).

Thoughtcast will most likely make it in if I have spare slots. I could run Faerie Mechanist, but Thoughtcast is way faster, and draws more cards. It's sad there's really not a lot of good artifacts unless you plan to cheat the high cmc cost ones in with MW/Monolith.

[Esper3k]

Shuffle better! :)

Mechanist is interesting. While it draws you less cards, it does give you another evasive body to put Cranial Plating on.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Shuffle better! :)

Mechanist is interesting. While it draws you less cards, it does give you another evasive body to put Cranial Plating on.

Mechanist is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how I feel about another four-drop. Especially one that requires colored mana - what would be cut to fit it? Lodestone Golem is probably too good to cut, and that would be a lot of four-drops.

[GGoober]

I'll cut 1-2 lands, because running 24 lands with 5-6 moxen is overkill (apparently not for my case when I play it becase running 24 lands always seem to draw less lands than reanimator running 16-18 lands).

Ideally I want to drop to 23 lands with 3 diamond, 3 Opal. The 3rd Opal has been very important to playing the 4 drops before turn 4 and playing faster 3cmc drops. Sometimes I'm able to achieve turn 2 golems, but that's still a little rare. My only worry is the blue-sources. 4 Seat + 6 Mox is pushing it to the verge of instability but since there's only 4 blue spells, by turn 3, I should usually see a blue source. Running 2 more blue cards might unbalance the ratio.

However, the best card-draw engine for the deck is neither Thoughtcast/mechanist. It's simply Sword of Fire and Ice. SoFI was great 2 weeks ago, but I dropped them in favor of Plating. Still up in the air about the configuration. If the meta is truly infested with Gobs/Folks, then I'll be dropping the 3 Plating + 4 Inkmoth for +1 jitte, +2 SoFI and +4 Factories (probably still keep Inkmoth although they are much less impressive without Plating).

Yesterday I tested Darksteel Citadel instead of Ports. It was very nice although we had limited testing (total 12 games). However, 2 out of 12 games had Darksteel Citadel enabling Metalcraft on turn 2 more consistently. Not having Metalcraft on turn 2 for Champion or Opal is a tempo loss and this is one of the big concerns I'm trying to tackle with the current configuration in the deck. Because I can say that I've lost games where I waited 1-2 turns to get champion online with metalcraft. Unlike meandeck MUD and Affinity, this deck isn't completely metalcrafted until turn 3 where the other decks are safely metalcrafted on turn 2.

[AlterEgo]

Cheers, I took this little gem for a walk today.
My list:
//Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 City of Traitors
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Island
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Wasteland

//Creature
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Master of Etherium
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer

//Other
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Cranial Plating
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

//Side
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Ratchet Bomb

1st round: (Cat-)Sligh - 0:2
I lose the first game due to a missplay and get screwed in the second.

2nd round: Dredge 2:0
First game I overrun him with a Golem, second game is saved by a timely Crypt... that enabled a First turn Chalice off Mox Opal and a Seat.

3rd round: Tell-and-Show 2:1
First game he only draws some cards and Forces a Revoker - I have no idea what to board, so I blindly swap the Swords.
Second he Shows an Emrakul on Turn four, and I only have a Revoker and some lands.
Third game he Thoughtseizes once - after I dropped a turn one Master of Etherium off Tomb and Mox. Two turns later Nexus attacks for 2 poison, and then I topdeck Plating, making it an exactly lethal 8/2.

4th round: WB Deadguy 2:0
He leads with a Vial, but I get the riddiculous start: Mox: discard Inkmoth, Mox: discard Blinkmoth, Mox Opal, Master. This is followed by two subsequent Golems. Those three eat two Confidants, one Mother of Runes, and a Stoneforge Mystic (got SoFI). His Vindicate doesn't help because he stopped on 4 lands.
Game two is a little closer, as he gets much more removal (I get a slow start) and Kitchen Finks. Ultimately he has to StoP a lethal 8/2 Inkmoth only to see me drop two Champions. I win in my last EXTRA TURN...!

5th round: GWu "Survival"... well, KotR.dec 0:2
First game is riddiculous - he gets THREE Wastelands in his opener and draws the fourth. I never stand any chance and die quickly to a couple of Knights.
Second game he Krosan Grips one Crucible and lets his Pridemage eat the second. I concede to a pair of Lhurgoyfs - after rescuing myself to 1 life by Crypting his grave.

6th round: Dredge 2:0
I keep a slow hand, make a stupid missplay, but so does my opponent. He concedes after 5 turns, facing a Master and a Golem.
Second game, I play Crypt and a Chalice@1 in the first turn, sacc it in his upkeep (three bridges got removed earlier as my Inkmoth blocked his pumped Tireless Tribe). My opponent concedes the turn before I can drop a Golem.

End result: 4-2-0, 13th out of 35, thanks to bad OppScore.
But I'm okay with that, because my goal was to reach at least a 3-3-0.

Some things I noticed:
- Island is unnecessary - the only game I could have fetched it, I had it in my hand.
- Blinkmoth Nexus did almost nothing for me, except discarding to Moxen and once enabling Metalcraft for Champion.
- Wasteland is BAAAAD, if I have it against me.
- Revoker was unimpressive most of the time (but maybe I just did it wrong)
- The deck needs more card advantage
- SoFI did well

Next time I'll try Thoughtcast instead of Revokers and Darksteel Citadel instead of Blinkmoth and Island.
Although that next time won't be too soon - MUD and Affinity seem to be on the rise again here.

[GGoober]

Some things I noticed:
- Island is unnecessary - the only game I could have fetched it, I had it in my hand.
- Blinkmoth Nexus did almost nothing for me, except discarding to Moxen and once enabling Metalcraft for Champion.
- Wasteland is BAAAAD, if I have it against me.
- Revoker was unimpressive most of the time (but maybe I just did it wrong)
- The deck needs more card advantage
- SoFI did well

Thanks for the report and taking the deck for a spin. And it is nice to see conclusions come from the other side of playtesting where I bring up mine. I brought Steel Stompy for another round despite wanting to play Landstill desperately against an aggro field. My friend mentions that I should playtest whatever I want to bring in a big event, and this is a deck that I feel has potential so I decided to playtest a little bit more.

I'll provide feedback on your analysis based on mine accumulated over 1-2 months of testing, because you definitely make points that are highly valid, which I had gone through as well (although I've been testing this for months, so sometimes to you, one tournament maybe insufficient to draw conclusions).

- Island is indeed unneccesary. This deck loses to Wastelock although most of the time, you are virtually putting a lot of pressure such that Wastelock becomes expensive or unfeasible for the opposing deck. However today was a good example of Big Zoo drawing KotR and Wastelocking me out 3 lands in a row (that is as good as a Wastelock for the course of the game). 1 Island will not change the fate of Wastelock. The only outs are 3 Opals + 3 Diamonds, which will do fine. We have to accept Wastelock is one of the weaknesses of the deck, and cannot be improved without sacrificing other synergies card choices. But I had dropped the Island since 2 weeks ago, and never turned back. There is only currently 1 deck in a given meta that plays Path MD and that is Zoo.

- Blinkmoth Nexus has been in and out for me. I still feel that 6 manlands (flying of course) is the right density if you play 3 Platings. There had been many games where my opponent (big Zoo) is wasting and burning Blinkmoth over Inkmoth simply because Blinkmoth's pump ability is the most threatening when paired with Inkmoth or when going alone adding damage from other sources. When I cut Blinkmoth against Countertop, the matchup became much tougher when they got a Planeswalker online. I was waiting for manlands to seal the deal against Countertop. Similarly, CABJace/Landstill variants have also shown that having 6 manlands was critical to the backup plan. Regardless, I had tested 2 Darksteel Citadel over the manlands and it provides a lot of additional benefits/syerngies to the deck. You lose a little more consistent flying lands with the lord pumps, but you gain an indestructible land that supports metalcraft (much better) on turns 2, and giving Plating and Master both a +1/+1 boost (this is the biggest reason to play Citadel). I'm still testing Blinkmoth Nexus and Citadel, but the list I ran today was 4 Inkmoth + 2 Blinkmoth + 4 Seat + 1 Citadel + 12 staple lands.

- Wasteland is BADDD against me. Yupp. Today Knight of the Reliquary owned me. My games against Big Zoo were pretty close ones though, even though his board position was better. Having my lands cut off while having a big beater against me limited me to power out champions

- Card advantage: Every deck needs card advantage, but yes you are right that this deck needs more cards. However, for this list, I would recommend testing out Faerie Mechanist over Thoughtcast. Mechanist draws 1 for 3U. But it is yet another evasive body that gets pumped by 8 lords, carries plating/SoFI/Jitte over, and scrys away useless lands (when you hit 4 mana, lands become bad draws unless they're Wastelands or Manlands and to some extent artifact lands to pump Master/Plating).

- SOFI did very well today: I ran a 2 Jitte/2 Plating/1 SoFI in my MD today with 1 SoFI in the SB. From testing, it has been interesting to realize that SoFI is actually better than Jitte when for a period of 1-2 months, I thought otherwise. The reason being: SoFI gives +2/+2, which adds to a much faster clock, and in most scenarios, on a Champion/Inkmoth is ALWAYS going to be 1 turn faster than Jitte (waiting a turn to use the counters you gained from Jitte). I'll be running a 3 Plating/2 SoFI in my MD now, and shift 2 Jittes in the SB. I have actually wanted SoFI much more in games than Jitte. SoFI is awesome a good card advantage engine with Etched Champion.


The list I played today:
4 Tombs
4 Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat
4 Inkmoth
2 Blinkmoth
1 Darksteel Citadel

3 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond

3 Crucible of Worlds (I want to cut the 3rd, but this card has been quite important, even though sometimes another card could fulfil the purpose better)
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Revoker
4 Overseers
4 Etched Champion
4 Master
4 Lodestone

1 SoFI
2 Jitte
2 Cranial Plating

SB:
3 Tangle Wire (pretty solid so far)
3 Winter Orb
4 Ratchet Bomb
1 SoFI
4 Thorn of Amethyst


Match 1: UB Merfolks
Game 1:
He wins the first game with Island Vial->Daze my Overseer, Chain 2 standstills. I get Champion with SoFI online but his lords get in there while my Ancient Tomb helps out his game.

-1 Crucible, -4 Chalice, +4 Ratchet Bomb, +1 SoFI.
Game 2: Turn 1 Overseer, turn 2 Overseer, turn 3 Etched Champion + manlands was too much pressure for Merfolks.

Game 3:
I kept an insane hand of Overseer, Champion, SoFI, Jitte. He leads with Vial, Dazed Overseer, Wastes my land, so I'm quite setback. I baited with Jitte which he forced and resolved Champion which stops Reejerey. Slapped on a SoFI and start frying some fish and chips. When he was down to 10 life, he Hurkyl's Recalled me (starting to see narrow hate against my artifact deck :P), and I had to rebuild for 2 turns since I had 2 lands bounced as well. He couldn't keep up with Champion + Sword and I win this easily.

1-0 (2-1)

Match 2: Big Zoo
Game 1:
I don't remember much but I lost the tempo war i.e. I play dude, he EOT bolts/Punishing Fire, and starts dropping big dudes, Knights get in there and locks me out of good lands. Punishing Fire Big Zoo is an incredible deck, extremely well-designed and positioned for a meta of Zoo/Gobs/Merfolks/Countertop. It doesn't help that Punishing Fire owns my deck pretty hard if Overseer/Master doesn't get my guys out of x/2 toughness range

Game 2: -1 Overseer, -3 Crucible, -2 Plating, -1 Jitte, +1 SoFI +3 Winter Orb, +3 Tangle Wire
I boarded out Jitte for SoFI since he was playing PFires. For a similar reason, I wanted to tax Big Zoo with Winter Orb (something weird that I reasoned since Winter Orb isn't good against regular Zoo but he seemed to be playing a heavy PFire engines 3PFire/3 Groves I believe)

This was brutal. Winter Orb did lock him out of lands, and I got in there

Game 3:
He led with Hierarch and I lead with Revoker on Hierarch with Winter Orb in hand ready to lock him out. He drops Goyf Knights while bolting off my Overseer and dudes and I am forced to play Winter Orb->Tangle Wire to buy some turns. He was down to 8 life at that point, and Tangle Wire did a good job keeping his board from developing and he went for a slow painful PFires under Winter Orb (not ideal, but he will push +1 damage every 2 turns with Orb in play). At this point, I had 2 more Tangle Wires in hand so Tangle Wire + Winter Orb can definitely buy me time. I just needed to draw a Champion to start beating the last 8 damage through. Did not happen and he got this

1-1 (4-3)

Match 3: Enchantress
Game 1: Bad matchup for me but I led with quite an aggressive hand. Turn 1 Chalice@1, Turn 2 Revoker naming Sterling Grove + Champion (I emptied my hand at this point), turn 3 I topdecked Plating and went in for lethal with Plating on Inkmoth (1 hit 10 poison). Inkmoth is insanely good lol.

Game 2: +3 Winter Orb, +4 Thorn, +4 Ratchet Bombs, -4 Steel Overseer, -3 Crucible of Worlds, -2 Jitte, -1 SoFI, -1Etched Champion
My best game in MTG ever: Turn 1 he opened with Wild Growth. Turn 1 Thorn, Turn 2 he played Argothian without Thorn drawback, Turn 2 I played 2nd Thorn. He frowns passes turn. Turn 3 Lodestone Golem. He puts his hand on his face and starts thinking deeply for 30s and it was over. I killed his hand of Oring, Aura of Silence, Prescences, lol.

2-1 (6-3)

Match 4: GUr Lands
Game 1: He goes with Explorations and the regular stuff. I lead off with double Overseer + Lodestone Golem that beat the combat maths in 2 turns. I had wastelands in hand for any Tabernacle/Mazes he played.

Game 2: +3 Winter Orb, +4 Thorn, out equipments can't remember
I went for turn 1 Overseer again, turn 2 Orb. He gets stuck on some lands but it did not matter since I had Tangle Wire in hand which I did not play during Game 2 since I was holding it for the turns where he would dump more lands out. Winter Orb is so powerful against decks that need a lot of lands (Landstill/Enchantress/countertop/Lands)

3-1 (8-3)

Top 4: Big Zoo
Game 1: Same player. I lead with Chalice @1, Etched Champion, Overseer in that order. I think if you've read my reports/primer, you should know that this game gets in there with Chalice + Champion

Game 2/3: KotR just owns my manabase so hard. I did not see Revoker, but more importantly, Punishing Fire was the culprit to making his Zoo matchup much more powerful against my deck than other Zoo matchups. Both him and I made a couple of mistakes (e.g. he gripped wrong cards ending up with dead cards against an active Chalice etc). Regardless, he gets in there. I was not expecting Punishing Fires, and it definitely made an impact for Zoo. Classic Zoo without Punishing Fire tended to rely more heavily on 1cmc spell, which was a reason why Steel Stompy has good success against Zoo despite their fast starts. Big Zoo + Punishing Fire was not only able to play around Chalice, it had an inevitable burn engine that was strong against my deck. More importantly, PFires was a great free answer for Inkmoth/Blinkmoth, nullifying my backup strategy. Classic Zoo had to burn burn spells to answer my Inkmoths, but PFires was a free burn that keeps my manland strategy in check. It was tough. One game I could have won but once again showing how PFires was relevant:

I had Chalice @1. He was at 6 poison (I swung for 6 poison on turn 3). I cannot swing with Inkmoth because he has PFire mana open to burn a Plated Inkmoth. I drew a Wasteland which was pivotal since he only has 2 mana open. I wasted Grove, he floated colorless in response, and I was still stuck in the same position. My chalice @1 would have stopped any of regular Zoo's removal (Path/Bolt) but it could not stop PFires. I could not get in there with Inkmoth + Plating where I could against other Zoo variants. It was a tough match. Games were close, but his strategies nullified mine. Very enlightening matchups though :)

3-2 (9-5)

Overall, was a fun day, and I was really impressed by Big Zoo + PFires/Groves. Regarding the deck, the thoughts that I've gathered are:

SoFI > Jitte for game 1 unknown opponents. It kills faster, is able to pump Lodestone/dudes out of bolt range immediately. It is always 1 turn faster than Jitte because Jitte has to get counters first. Jitte might be moved to the SB now purely against goblins/tribal. I've been boarding Jitte out quite often against Zoo/Countertop etc.

Revoker is a little weak at times. Against Zoo, he was good against LAvamancer/Pridemage/KotR, but being a 2/1 is only going to be a temporal solution until he's removed. Punishing Fire killed the Revokers in my hands today. I'll relook into playing Revokers. Personally, he's fantastic against Merfolks (Vial/Coralhelm), and mediocore against Goblins (Vial/Siege/Incinerator!) but he is amazing against control, forcing them to blow an StP on him instead of Master. Shutting down Top/Vial is Revoker's main priority, although otherwise he currently the weakest slot.

I will have to relook to playing a few other 2cmc artifact creatures to replace him. Ravager is not too viable an option since he goes against the deck's principles on board position and metalcraft. Faerie Mechanist and Esperzoa are good potential cards to be played, although the mana curve has to be reworked if such a change is implemented. Thanks for testing AlterEgo and thanks for reading everyone!

[Esper3k]

I was the Big Zoo player that Metalwalker played against yesterday (we've known each other for a few years now so I did have an advantage in knowing generally how the deck worked).

This deck is very scary to play against. Even though it has some succeptibility to removal on your lower toughness guys, you can get nasty explosive starts with Etched Champion and equipment that are just very tough to deal with (I lost a game yesterday to that keeping a hand with double Goyf and Punishing Fire combo thinking I was safe).

Wastelands can hurt you, but it can be tough to play them fromyour opponent's perspective as well. Steel Stompy is so fast that you oftentimes have to make the choice if you want to risk killing their manabase or if you want to play some pressure of your own. It's the worst when Steel Stompy has an Ancient Tomb and Mox Diamond out and you Wasteland the Tomb, only to have them drop another Sol Land and keep going. I think Wasteland is only good against Steel Stompy at mid-late game if you see that they aren't making their land drops or you use the Wastelands as removal for their man-lands.

Re Blinkmoth Nexus: I was indeed scared of these guys in our games because of their ability to pump Inkmoths. I oftentimes found myself holding back because I needed to have removal for potentially pumped Inkmoths due to Blinkmoth. If Blinkmoth had been Darksteel Citadel, I would have been more aggressive in many of our games. I think in only one game it could have mattered (where I Gripped your Champion and you couldn't activate the Blinkmoth to give it Metalcraft). However, in that particular case, we had already established it was correct for me anyways to Grip the Chalice @ 1 then Plow the Champion. In that case, having the Nexus be a Citadel would not have mattered.

Regarding basic Island: How often do you find that this hurts you? I think that keeping 1 is just fine to at least get something back from PTE. You do run the small risk of having an Island against Merfolk, but I think that is a pretty rare occurrence.

[GGoober]

Not playing the Island did not hurt at all. You'll lose to wastelock, but since you have no way to fetch that lone Island, with/without it does not make a huge difference in changing the fate of wastelock. But it'll take your opponents some resource to wastelock you out e.g. via Loam/Crucible. Against Loam decks, just board 3 Winter Orb. Against Crucible (Landstill/Stax), you lose. The games I lost to CABJace are purely due to Wastelock (him drawing the lone Crucible in his deck). At that point, you can't do much, it's the same deal as other decks can't do much when you get the Wastelock out. The decks that play PTE currently are: Zoo and some Bant Aggro list running PTE sideboard. If Zoo paths my creatures, I'll treat it as if they've bolted my creature. There's definitely a plus to run Island against PTE decks than not running the basic, although not many decks play PTE. My Island showed up 3 games against 6 matches against Merfolks lol, but that's just bad luck.

Anyway, the main reason to play the Island is basically to up blue count. It's a non-wasteable source of blue, which makes PTE a fair removal. For the current list, I might have to revert back to 1 Island simply because I'm upping the blue count.

Lands: 23
4 Wasteland
1 Island
4 Seat of Synod
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Creatures: 21
4 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Faerie Mechanist

Resistors: 6
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds

Equipment: 5
3 Cranial Plating
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

SoFI is just ages more aggressive than Jitte. I've tested 3/2 Jitte/SoFI, 3/2 Plating/Jitte, 2/2/1 Jitte/Plating/SoFI builds, and the builds with SoFI tend to stand out much better than builds without. On paper, Jitte is in everyway better than SoFI, but as a friend (Esper3k) pointed out, and with playtesting. The main reason Jitte is better than SoFI in most decks is because of being 2cmc v.s. 3cmc. For a stompy deck, that 2cmc-3cmc line becomes less clear i.e. you need your equipment on turn 3 usually (you are playing dudes/lockpieces before then), so on turn 3, 2cmc-3cmc has no difference compared to other decks where playing Jitte/SoFI for 2cmc v.s. 3cmc makes a much bigger difference.

The thing to note is that SoFI kills much faster than Jitte. If you are just racing, Etched Champion is doing 2/2 +2/+2 +2damage and drawing a card v.s. 2/2 getting 2 counters for next turn to set up 2/2 +4/+4 damage without drawing card or using the counters for removal. SoFI is in general much better than Jitte against tribal (always connects since its pro UR). Jitte is better against the Zoo matchup than SoFI but that matchup is primarily won with Champion/chalice (if you don't draw Champion/Chalice, nothing else will make the matchup easier).

With this change, and the new changes to +2 Mechanist, I have a total of 4 Inkmoth, 2 Blinkmoth, 4 Champion, 2 Faerie Mechanist = 12 Evasive beaters carrying Equipments that kill fast (SoFI/Plating). I'm excited to test this out.

I've dropped 4th Revoker and 3rd Crucible for +2 Faerie Mechanist. In testing, the 3rd Crucible has always been in and out. Crucible is a very powerful card in this deck, but I think the list can do fine without it. So by running 2, I'll get stronger games when I do draw one, but still do fine without it, and not risk drawing double Crucibles. Revoker has been amazing, but sometimes felt weak being a 2/1 against bigger creatures. If I draw multiple Revokers and no Overseer/Champion/Master, it feels underwhelming (such draws are not common but do occur).

Mechanist IMO is stronger than Thoughcast. At best, Thoughtcast is U drawing 2 cards (awesome btw). But raw cards is not what this deck needs. Unlike Affinity, your lands are usually not artifact lands aka, you don't get huge synergies from drawing cards as compared with AFfinity which can use even their lands as damage for Ravager/Disciple/Master. To cast Thoughtcast for just U in this deck happens around turn 3 at best (requiring 4 artifacts, remember you only have 4 artiact lands v.s. affinity's 16). At turn 3, you can easily cast Golem/Mechanist, which is why I decided on Mechanist. Sure, Thoughtcast costs just U, but assuming you were spending U and drawing business/creatures, you would still be spending at least :3: on a spell post-thoughtcast. mechanist combines the draw and creature all in one card. Most importantly, she flies, which is quite central to breaking ground stalemates and increasing the power of Plating/SoFI.

Lastly, raw card is not what this deck needs. Card filtering by digging 3 and picking the most relevant artifact seems to be good. All in all, I hope to squeeze 3 Mechanist in, but so far it seems impossible with the setup. I've not run into too much issues with 4Master/2Mechanist v.s. 3Opal/3Diamond/1Island/4Seat. Since Mechanist is usually casted after turn3, the games where colored mana is an issue has not changed compared to the older builds running just 4 Masters.

[AlterEgo]

Maybe it's just a bad idea... but could Arcbound Stinger be an option?
It has Flying and when it dies you do not lose power if you control at least one other creature (or an untapped Nexus).

As I said, I was not impressed by Phyrexian Revoker - whether it has 1 power or 2, it doesn't matter in a format, where you can have an average 3/4 for two mana. Most of the time he just sat there staring at some Lhurgoyf or Imp. IMO he's better left in the sideboard.

[GGoober]

Hmm, the funny thing is: Ornithopter is much better than Arcbound Stinger. I have never really tested Ornithopter, but now that I think about it, it's kind of good

1) Evasion (a nice plus)
2) enables turn 2 metalcraft (very important actually)
3) grown by 8 lords (offsets a 0/2)
4) Carries Plating/SOFI (offsets a 0/2)

Not sure if it'll replace Revoker's MD slot and move Revokers to the SB. I doubt so, but I definitely have something worth testing that slipped my mind. Still doesn't solve the card advantage problem although it does add a ton more evasion and attack-power to the deck. It's free, doesn't clash with Chalice @1 (otherwise Signal Pest would be quite easily included in this deck as minilord 9-12), and with an equipment/Overseer, becomes quite stupid.

[AlterEgo]

(bump)
Hi there - my latest list:


//Creatures
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 Faerie Mechanist
4 Etched Champion
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Master of Etherium
4 Steel Overseer

//Mana (only)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod

//Other
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Cranial Plating
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Wasteland

//Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tormod's Crypt


some notes:

Faerie - just great!
Revoker - have never missed it, but it stays in the board
SoFaI - this beats Jitte in terms of card advantage - only sad it won't ever kill anyhing bigger that X/2.
Crucible - if I ever decide to go more aggro, these become SoFaI #3 and some creature.
Wasteland - still have only three. Without CoW they'll become two Blinkmoths and one Citadel.

[GGoober]

Hi! looks solid, I'm sharing my list I'm bringing for this weekend (couldn't play last weekend) but I've been tweaking and learning the deck alot, to understand its fundamental strategies.

@AlterEgo:

Mechanist was great, but I found that 3 was a tad too much to support with the manabase. 3 is fine because you only need blue sources around turns 3-4, which is sufficient given the number of moxens in the deck. I would recommend 2 though. However, this is where I entirely shifted away from Mechanist.

Remember that card-advantage can be solved in Stompy decks at a price: diluting the core strategy. Mechanist doesn't really dilute anything because it's a great Ponder on a 2/2 flyer that carries equipment, but at the same time, Mechanist hasn't flowed too smoothly for myself. The reason being, this deck tends towards aggressiveness and beatdown rather than mid-game. The mid-game phase is usually reached simply because you are playing lockpieces early, but irregardless, it's a very fast beatdown deck once a plating/master is involved.

I still hold onto the approach that consistency for this deck is not solved with card-advantage/draw, but rather with more synergy. The greatest issue/block that I ran into testing varying card choices for this deck is: Not being able to hit Metalcraft on turn 2. Sometimes you do, but with the initial list (Opening post, 2nd decklist), metalcraft was hard to achieve on turn 2. This limited a lot of potential plays (turn 2 Lodestone, turn 2 Etched champion, getting 1 more crucial mana on turn 2 for mox Opal).

I am inclined to say that 2 Darksteel Citadel fits the slot of 2 Inkmoth Nexus better, but in testing, 6 manlands was the ideal configuration to not throw the control mirror to a 50-50 matchup (You want your control mirror to be about 60-40 at least because you have about 50-50 matchups against aggro decks, so you want to make sure you at least have an ace card in bigger events).

To solve the Metalcraft problem, we discussed the option on playing more evasive beaters (fundamentally how this deck truly wins), and since I've settled on the 3;2 plating/SoFI configuration, evasive beatdown has become a huge boost to the deck's winning strategy. The metalcraft problem has finally been resolved with the inclusion of 3 Ornithopters. I'll present my current decklist (obviously still need testing), but in the testing I've done, the biggest boon was facilitating turn 2 metalcraft, therefore reducing tempo losses, and at the same time, be a huge threat with Plating/Overseer/Lords;

Lands: 22
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 city of Traitors

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Creatures: 22
3 Ornithopter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem

Equipments: 5
3 Cranial Plating
2 SoFI

Resistors: 6
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds

I've trimmed down to 22 lands. 24 is practically too much, and I think I've gotten a hang on learning how to shuffle/randomize my deck, so 22 lands has been good in testing so far.

To help you understand my core philosophy and strategy for the deck, I'll break down into the functions of cards from the posted decklist:

Accelerants: 16
3 Mox Opal
3 Mox diamond
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

This is what makes your deck significantly broken to non-Stompy decks. Mox Diamonds/Opals IMO is much better than Chrome Mox in other stompy variants, but there is no clear cut comparison since the decklists are fundamentally different, but it's nice that we have Opal aka vintage Moxen with no drawback for this deck, and Diamond which doesn't pitch gas/business spell. The reason why this deck needs all the accelerants it can smoothly fit is because getting the relevant threat/resistor down a turn earlier means everything (e.g. turn 2 trinisphere is quite worthless compared to turn 1 trinisphere, similarly, against merfolks, a turn 1 resolved Overseer is generally very bad news for them)

Pumps/Lords: 13
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
3 Cranial Plating
2 SoFI

The deck is inherently similar to the Merfolk Model, having 8 lords to pump a field of creatures, and scaling attack power very fast. The additional benefit it has over Merfolks is playing 5 equipments that are easily castable with a Stompy manabase than decks not playing Stompy manabases. Having 13 pump effects for 22 creatures, makes sure that every creature drawn is eventually very likely to be useful in terms of combat trading or blocking/attacking.

Creatures: 22, Beefsticks: 8
4 Master of Etherium
4 Etched Champion

These are the biggest threats in your deck, common beefsticks in legacy include creatures that are cost-efficient that are big and tough to deal with e.g. Goyf/Knight of the Reliquary/Terravore. This deck needs at the very least 8 beefsticks. The reason is any less e.g. dropping Master means that against opposing Beefsticks, you need to situationally draw into Overseer/Equipments to match their creatures. you want to have at least 8 creatures that do not rely on anything else to match their 8 creatures.

Evasive beaters: 13
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 Ornithopter
4 Etched Champion

This is where the deck's winning strategy shine. Bulk of the time, you win with this strategy (there are other times where you win with resistors accumulating e.g. Wasteland + lodestone) and swinging with a beefy Master. However, the Evasive beaters allow you to stall the ground while winning evasively. There are many games where Steel Stompy is forced on the defensive (e.g. against multiple goyfs/merfolks), and the goal is to do the combat maths and calculate how many turns you can win with evasive beaters while holding the ground if your resistors failed

Resistors/disrupters: 15 (+2)
4 Wasteland
4 lodestone Golem
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Chalice of the void
(+2 Crucible when Wastelock is relevant)

The goal of the deck is to play your creatures normally, and since most of the stuff you are playing naturally tends to slow your opponent's down, this is the disrupting strategy of steel stompy. You want to play your game normally while forcing their game to a slower crawl. Even if Lodestones get removed, remember that they are spending an extra mana on removing him, potentially missing a mana to drop a creature etc. The goal of disruption is simply because your opponent's deck is very likely to overpower your deck if not disrupted (after all, this is a deck of 'cute' creatures). However, to think of this deck as 'cute' with Overseer tricks is sometimes missing the point on how this deck was built. Overseer is indeed 'cute', but when paired up with mana acceleration (ancient tombs), and disruption slowing opponent's gameplay, every turn you buy is significantly increasing Overseer's value in the deck, and since you are ultimately approaching combat-aggro as your win-condition, scaling your creatures to make your opponents trade unfavorably starts becoming yet another foil to their normal gameplan.

These are the core strategies that unite the deck, or at least I am still trying to figure out the optimal configuration.
Recap:
Resistors/disrupters: 15 (+2)
Evasive beaters: 13
Beefsticks: 8
Pump/lords: 13
Accelerants: 16

I am not too mathematical about the breakdown, but on paper, this looks good into always consistently drawing either resistor/evasive beaters/beefsticks/pump/accelerant in every game. Since the deck is ultimately synergistic i.e. drawing multiples of cards in the deck is never bad (unless it's diamond/lands), over the course of the game, the consistency is maintained, without playing any form of card draw/filtering (SoFI is really there to kill, not to draw cards, at least that's how I value SoFI. Most of the time, the extra card wasn't needed, it's the killing speed of SoFI and its relevant pro colors that makes it incredible).


I do need some advice:
junk has been a bad matchup (so much discard/removal/Pernicious Deed). It's a hard matchup pre-board, but I'm not sure how I can make it better postboard.

Thought to consider: Sword of Body and Mind might be better than SoFI but I have not tested this. It is much stronger against Zoo/Bant/Junk decks giving yet more proG (on top of Etched champion and Master of etherium matching their creatures). It is still very strong against Merfolks (since it gives you a 2/2 for free on top of the 22 creatures you are churning out). It's my opinion that Pro UG is a much better color combination than Pro RU, but I need to test this. SoFI's card drawing ability is great, but most of the time, my board position is usually always superior against aggro decks. I can see SoFI being more relevant against control than SoBM, but SoBM can rebuild an army with just manlands after sweepers.

Not sure yet.

Last note: 3 Ornithopter is another 3 temporal out against Lackey on the play. I think the deck's worst matchups are now (in order)
- Junk
- Goblins
- NO Show/Sneak (haven't tested this too much)

Current SB:
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Winter Orb
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Umezawa's jitte
4 Thorn of amethyst


UPDATE: some RL-testing done yesterday, will update opening post someday:

Junk pre-board: 4-6
Junk with Deeds maindeck is very unfavored. You need broken starts to beat the deck (e.g. turn 2 Lodestones or fast platings)

SCG Zenith Zoo preboard: 4-5
The same thing goes, you draw Chalice and Champion you win easily, otherwise you have a hard time. GSZ is very scary though, since KotR is really good against Steel Stompy (wasteland nullifying your manlands strategy yet being a huge creature). KotR maybe simply one of the best creatures in this format right now.

Sidenote: Observing the Zoo decks these days, I think it's great to play 4 Relics against them (in control Decks). It shuts off 4 Goyfs, 4 Knights, 4 Lavamancers.

Show and Tell pre-board: 0-3
This is the list playing Lotus Petal, ESG into Eureka and Show and Tell, very fast, impossible matchup. The ESG and Petal are key to this build. I did get Lodestone on turn 2 and Wastelands in one of these games, but he went off with ESG (Elvish Spirit Guide)

Show and Tell post-board: 2-2
sideboard +4 Thorn, +3 Tangle Wire. Still unfavorable since it gets past Thorn with ESG. This time I have Tangle Wire to play after their Emrakul. It worked sometimes, but you need hands that have big beaters/damage to put them on a clock, survive an emrakul attack and win. Tangle Wire is less effective against Eureka, but those version of the deck aren't too well played.

As I expected, the tough matchups are:
1) junk with Pernicious Deed
2) show and tell, natural order decks.

I mused up a variant of this list, which I might get to testing in the future, however it loses the huge beats from Master but in the process gains more relevant cards in white:

Lands: 22
4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Inkmoth
2 Plains

Creatures: 21
3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
3 Glow Rider
4 Lodestone Golem

Equipments: 5
2 Sword of Body and Mind/Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Cranial Plating

Resistors: 6
2 Crucibles
4 chalice

accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

SB:
Karmic Justice
Oring
Armageddon
Thorn
Winter Orb

I have no fucking idea how to optimize the white list. Looks good in theory with multiple golem/glowriders/canonist/revoker and having a good clock, but yesterday, Master of Etherium showed me why he's retardedly required for the deck to function:

Zoo Board position: Two 20/20 KotR, 1 Terravore (22/22)
My Board position: Two 16/16 Masters, 1 12/12 Overseer, 1 16/14 Lodestone, 2 Platings making me able to kill KotR if he swung in. Nothing else in this game is an artifact creature and match KotR and Goyf when it comes to mana cost. It's hard to drop Master of Etherium (you also cast him faster in this deck compared to regular affinity).

[GGoober]

UPDATE: some RL-testing done yesterday, will update opening post someday:

Junk pre-board: 3-6
Junk with Deeds maindeck is very unfavored. You need broken starts to beat the deck (e.g. turn 2 Lodestones or fast platings)

SCG Zenith Zoo preboard: 4-5
The same thing goes, you draw Chalice and Champion you win easily, otherwise you have a hard time. GSZ is very scary though, since KotR is really good against Steel Stompy (wasteland nullifying your manlands strategy yet being a huge creature). KotR maybe simply one of the best creatures in this format right now.

Sidenote: Observing the Zoo decks these days, I think it's great to play 4 Relics against them (in control Decks). It shuts off 4 Goyfs, 4 Knights, 4 Lavamancers.

Show and Tell pre-board: 0-3
This is the list playing Lotus Petal, ESG into Eureka and Show and Tell, very fast, impossible matchup. The ESG and Petal are key to this build. I did get Lodestone on turn 2 and Wastelands in one of these games, but he went off with ESG (Elvish Spirit Guide)

Show and Tell post-board: 2-2
sideboard +4 Thorn, +3 Tangle Wire. Still unfavorable since it gets past Thorn with ESG. This time I have Tangle Wire to play after their Emrakul. It worked sometimes, but you need hands that have big beaters/damage to put them on a clock, survive an emrakul attack and win. Tangle Wire is less effective against Eureka, but those version of the deck aren't too well played.

As I expected, the tough matchups are:
1) junk with Pernicious Deed
2) show and tell, natural order decks.

I mused up a variant of this list, which I might get to testing in the future, however it loses the huge beats from Master but in the process gains more relevant cards in white:

Lands: 22
4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Inkmoth
2 Plains

Creatures: 21
3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
3 Glow Rider
4 Lodestone Golem

Equipments: 5
2 Sword of Body and Mind/Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Cranial Plating

Resistors: 6
2 Crucibles
4 chalice

accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

SB:
Karmic Justice
Oring
Armageddon
Thorn
Winter Orb

I have no fucking idea how to optimize the white list. Looks good in theory with multiple golem/glowriders/canonist/revoker and having a good clock, but yesterday, Master of Etherium showed me why he's retardedly required for the deck to function:

Zoo Board position: Two 20/20 KotR, 1 Terravore (22/22)
My Board position: Two 16/16 Masters, 1 12/12 Overseer, 1 16/14 Lodestone, 2 Platings making me able to kill KotR if he swung in. Nothing else in this game is an artifact creature and match KotR and Goyf when it comes to mana cost. It's hard to drop Master of Etherium (you also cast him faster in this deck compared to regular affinity).

UPDATE UPDATE:
From Matt Elias' article:
Cursed Totem is the card that I am very interested in testing out at this moment. It hits: Lavamancer/Pridemage/Knight of the Reliquary/Hierarch/Coralhelm/Incinerator/Siege-gang/Elves

Most importantly this card single-handedly shuts down the problematic creatures run in Zoo (combination of Lavamancer/Pridemage/Knight beats your combination of Chalice/Revoker naming pridemage). Overseer is actually quite weak against Zoo (they will most likely remove him before he gets to a 4/4). So once overseer is out, all your other creatures have no activated abilities, while Zoo still has 4 lavamancer, 4 knights, 4 pridemage (+4 Hierarch if they play big zoo). Possible SB configuration is:

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Tangle Wire (or 3 Ensnaring Bridge against Emrakul decks or 3 Ratchet Bomb)
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Winter Orb
3 Cursed Totem

I have not boarded in ratchet bombs in ages. I'm not sure if Bridge is better than Tangle Wire. Bridge is argubly very very narrow where Tangle Wire is great against any deck you're trying to apply more disruption e.g. against control/combo/elves/merfolks. It's less powerful against Emrakuls, but still has limited applications since Show decks don't have a ton of permanents, it gives 1 turn against them, on top of disruption and a fast clock. Probably just give up on the Emrakul matchup and play Tangle Wires.

I've been having some problems with KotR matchups. This is the card I'm looking for, and on top of that, I am testing SoBM in the meta of Junk/Bant/Zoo/Merfolks/Goblins. I think it's going to prove worthwhile, and being able to not get chumped forever by Elves (a bad matchup if I faced one lol)

[Esper3k]

Metalwalker got to give an interview about his deck at SCG Ft. Worth!

[GGoober]

I went Lodestone Golem (5/3) in SCG Dallas Fort Worth. Report coming up tonight or tomorrow, stay tuned!

The deck was great aside from myself being a bad pilot (punting 1 game costing me the game), and drawing a total of 3 creatures against Team America in 2 games. There's quite a lot of potential in the list. Very rarely did I feel underwhelmed except when my opponents were playing GWx decks packing both Zenith + Natural Order (reason being Knight and Natural Order are the weakspots for this deck. Other than that, the deck did almost exactly what it was supposed to do from 2 months of testing and tweaking. I felt that I could have gone a solid 6-2 bracket in the event if I played more carefully. But mistakes like these will always force me not to make them again in the future!

The list I played was:


LANDS:23
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Ancient Tomb
4 city of Traitors
4 Wasteland

creatures: 20
4 Steel Overseer
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem

accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Equipments: 6
2 Cranial Plating
2 Umezawa's jitte
2 Sword of Fire/Ice

Lockpieces: 6
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:15
3 cursed totem
3 tangle wire
3 ratchet bomb
2 winter orb
4 thorn of amethyst


MD/SB was a configuration primarily designed to beat:
- Merfolks
- Goblins
- Combo/control

And improve matchup against:
- GWx deck (with cursed totems)
- Outs to counterthopter, belcher tokens, enchantress (ratchet bomb)
- Not autolose to Show and Tell (Tangle Wire)

[Spooks]

Hey Metalworker, i really like this list and i think i'll be trying it out sometime soon. Good work with all the effort you've been putting into it and congrats on your tourney result!

I have 1 question though, is there a reason most of your lsts are 61 cards MD?

[GGoober]

Thanks!

61 card may look off. In testing 22 v.s. 23 lands did seem to make a difference (over 100-200 games total from 2 months). 22 lands seem ideal on paper, but when playing against wastelands etc, 23 lands felt more secure.

The 61st card is the 23rd land is Darksteel Citadel.

The same question was raised during the interview I had and my answer was:

1) I'm a person who believes in math. The 61st card will definitely influence % of cards drawn for other cards, but when I worked the maths out on a spreadsheet (which i did), the % were small. I was willing to accept 1-1.5% drawbacks to drawing the Citadel against the 2-3% improvements to improving metalcraft on turn 2 and 3, and having a more consistent opening with 3 lands.

2) Despite the maths leaning towards running the 61st card as Darksteel Citadel, what really solidified the decisions was tons of playtesting. I usually test alot of builds with 61 cards (this only applies to decks running 23-24 lands, for any other deck, I stick to a strict 60 card). Playtesting really pissed me off when I miss a land drop or needed an extra land when playing with 22 lands.

They mentioned that Gerry Thomspon won the Standard SCG Opens with 61 cards as well and I joked "I'm no GT but there ya go! There's a reason for the 61st card :P"

The real deal is it's just incredibly hard to cut cards. I would possibly cut 1 SoFI and 1 Jitte and play a stock 60 in regular metagames, but for that SCG event, I knew I was going to see many gobs/merfolks, and I felt even the SoFI/Jitte as the 61st card (if you see it in that way) is very well worth the 1-1.5% drawbacks when playing the 61st card.

I typed out my report, then magically hit the BACKSPACE button to reset all that I've typed. So I'm a little pissed lol (report was kinda long). I'll try to have the report up by today.

[Spooks]

Well that explains it nicely mate, i'm into mathematics myself and i understand your reasons for playing like that!

My 5/3 artifact goodstuff deck has been a bit lacklustre recently and this is exactly the sort of thing i've been looking into turning it into, hopefully i can get some good testing in at my local meets and i'll post my results up. However i only get to play Legacy once a month, but any input i can give is bound to help right? :) Hopefully want to get several great Legacy decks built up for Grand Prix Amsterdam in October!

I think if i had to cut that list to 60 i'd go -2 Jitte, +1 Cranial Plating, just as it's the nuts on a Etched Champion or Inkmoth.

Have you considered Duplicant on the SB for Show and Tell shenanagans?

Too bad about your lengthy report man, but these things will happen >.< I'll look forward to reading it if you manage to repost it.

[Plm]

Metalworker, I have a few questions about the list you did bring to scg dfw.

Mainly @ ornithopter , you convinced me that thopter was good as an evasive attacker ( and it is indeed, with a sword or a plating it totally rock) as well a blocking lackey or even chumping emrackhul ( yeah I know corner case.). Why did you dump him ?

@ jitte : I know jitte is good but it's worse than SOFI and less brutal than plating ( specially when equipped to thopter, but you didn't play those ...). so why did you split your equips like that ? In testing it happened too much that the opponment would legend rule my jitte, and once I got to test SOFI I wouldn't go back ( mostly because SOFI pump is active all time and card draw is at a premium is stompy shell)

@ khull : why no bridge sideboard? does tangle wire win enough time to win before the fliyng annihilator monster get a swing ?

As for your report and hitting backspace : GUYS use opera, and you won't have this problem.

[GGoober]

I've actually never thought about Duplicants because it seems to be only good in metalworker decks (being too costly). To drop it against show and Tell also means that you need to play about 3-4 to consistently play with their show and tells. I think Arena of Ancients and Ensnaring Bridge are best outs, but even then I was more wililng to accept these as unsalvageable matchups than try to jeapordize my other matchups. I do have a 50/50 chance against show and tell at best with TAngle Wires and Thorns + Wastelands.

I agree that Plating is the best equipment. There were many games where I felt that if my equipments were just plating, I don't have to worry about life totals and future combat maths when I can win in 2 turns (pumping +7 to +9 power when it's online is simply unfair).

@Plm:
I cut the ornithopters because I was worried about a few things:
1) Grim Lavamancers (played as answers in other decks to the meta of gobs/folks/zoo mirror)
2) Junk with Deeds
3) Fighting the MD slots with 2/2/2 jitte/plating/sofi (biggest reason)

I think overall, the safer route would have been to play 2 Ornithopers with 4 Plating/2SofI in the list for SCG FW. To answer your question on why I went the hybrid 2/2/2 split, I had extensively tested 3/2 plating/jitte, 3/2 plating/sofi, 3/2 jitte/sofi with this deck and I found I enjoy the 3/2 plating/sofi the most. I will probably revert to this configuration. The reason why I went -1 Plating +1 jitte and cut the 3rd crucible for the 2nd jitte was because I felt that Jitte was quite important in a meta of gobs/merfolks/hierarch/dryad arbors. Jitte did save my ass against gobs after a chained Lackey (as I will mention in the report).

I think I'm going to do more testing with 2 Ornithopers and 4/2 Plating/Sofi. The reason I decided against Thopter was also because I've only played with 2 Ornithoper in 1 event (9 games) so I wasn't willing to let 9 games of testing delude myself from the more stable list that I've tested for over 2 months.


EDIT: report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20351-A-5-3-Lodestone-Golems-story-at-SCG-FW&p=531411) is up! Thanks to those for following and developing this deck so far!

[Spooks]

Regarding the addition of Tez 2.0 mentioned after the report, i've been tryin to squeeze them into my build. Underground Sea or Darkslick Shores works great alongside Seat of the Synod, but in your build i think you might get away with replacing the seats for them, relyng on the 6 Moxen or a second copy of a Dual for the second colour on Tez? However i'll have to test this to see how much it effects the Metalcraft.

Great job on the tourney report btw!

[GGoober]

So I had a revelation 2 days ago (2 days after SCG), pondering on my matchups against GWx decks.

Sometimes when you become too focused on certain card choices, you entirely fail to see other potential cards that trump certain matchups. Long story short, the previous MD/SB configurations to handle GWx decks with Knights/Goyfs/Pridemage/Hierarch benefited greatly from playing Cursed Totem. Yet at the same time, Cursed Totem is still not an answer to a growing knight from fetches, nor does it stop the more problematic matchups: Natural Order.

During SCG DFW, I witnessed the sheer power of Perish again when playing in the Legacy Challenge event. During the Legacy Opens, I saw Chris Elrond cast a timely Perish against AJSacher, and many other matchups where decks playing Perish (even though they were running green creatures) had the upper edge.

Here's the funny thing. I was too caught up on supporting the Overseer Strategy in the deck and not weaken my control/countertop matchup that I was reluctant to cut down the 2 blinkmoths. The real funny thing is that Steel Stompy already has quite favorable matchups against control, so the question becomes what would I cut the Blinkmoths for?

The answer now becomes clear. 2 Blinkmoth + Darksteel Citadel is turning into 3 Vault of Whispers (another huge bonus to turn 2 metalcraft and pumping Master/Plating). Now, with the Vaults, I can play Perish in the sideboard, which greatly improves my GWx matchups. I can also play Plague against Thopters/Goblins/Elves/Merfolks/humans if I needed to. Regardless, i am quite certain that on paper, this is the new direction for the deck. 6 manlands is great, but its biggest strength was against control decks. I guess I'll say that I'm willing to sacrifice a little on good matchups to greatly improve my chances against poorer matchups.

Now, with the changes, Plating/Master/metalcraft all become much stronger. There is the option to now insta-equip Plating as well (by a Mox + vault). This is a small bonus that is great. The last piece to the puzzle that I will get down to testing is playing with 2-3 Tezz 2.0 (as suggested by 2 forum members).

i want to remind the people reading/testing that black is not played for Tezz. Black is played for Perish, and supporting metalcraft primarily. Tezz 2.0 becomes something great if it works in the list. The color configuration seems a little tough to pull off Tezz 2.0's UB cost, but many games, I know that I draw Mox + artifact land quite frequently. Thank god that Mox Diamond and Mox Opal give any color (compared to Chrome Mox), so I know that running 2 Tezz should not be a problem at all. The greedy version will be to squeeze 3 Tezz (which I'm not willing).

Tezz 2.0 is a huge addition for the deck (if it works, needs testing again)
- He impulses for more threats and sets up for ultimate to win next turn.
- He immediately makes a 5/5 beater (either an insane Inkmoth or growing up your Lodestone/Revokers to comfortable toughness)
- His ultimate is what makes him broken in an artifact deck. The life gain will set you up from all the Tomb activations, or put a huge tempo advantage against other aggro decks, however, most cases, the ultimate is going to kill an opponent.

SCG DFW's winning Affinity list was built with such a principle: smash as much damage and with the 4 Tezz in the deck, either win with the ultimate while chumping blocking, or set the game life totals so apart that you have the win anyway.

Here's a sample list that I'll be testing today and on saturday

Lands: 23
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
(the card to consider cutting is 4th Wasteland, 4th vault, 4th City and I decided that I can't drop wasteland, and vault can't be cut since you need to support Perish in the SB. City is argubly weak in multiples, although the way to fix this maybe to cut the 4th Vault keep the 4th City and play 4 Diamonds. I need to playtest these configurations more).

Creatures: 19
4 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker (in metagames where Revoker is more crucial, I'll drop 4th Overseer/Golem for the 4th Revoker)
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Equipments: 5
3 Cranial Plating
2 Sword of Fire//Ice

Resistors: 6
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible

Planeswalker: 2
2 Tezz 2.0

SB: 15
4 Perish
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Winter Orb
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Engineered Plague or Ratchet Bomb etc

I'll test a bunch for the next few weeks but gut feeling is Tezz 2.0's and Perish going to be the nuts with this new take. I could be very wrong though. This build is definitely more fragile to Powder Keg, Disk and Deeds though.

[LegacyInferno]

After reading this primier the last few days and finally joining today I really have to express the that I love the conceptual design of the deck. I took this into account tonight when I was writing for my latest blog entry about how I would build this deck.

I think I took into account many different aspects of artifact construction from over the years of play to what I believe would utilize the stompy factor with added control.

Legacy Inferno Steel Stompy V.1.0

Lands: 24
4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

Creatures: 20
4 Metalworker
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Etched Champion
4 Steel Hellkite

Non-creatures: 16
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Tangle Wire

Sideboard: 15
3 Engineer Explosives
2 Winter Orb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Perish

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Surprising. I've been playing something similar to this deck on MWS but with more MUD and less Stompy.

Lands (24):

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Blinkmoth Nexus

Creatures (20):

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion

Non-Creature Artifacts (16):

3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Mox Opal


I really couldn't imagine running something like this without the Trinispheres and Ports.

[GGoober]

Hey guys! Did a revamp on the opening post, trimmed up the post to make it more logical flowing (although it's more wordy than it used to be). I organized it in more sections/blocks to aid readers in understanding the basis of the deck.

@LegacyInferno:
Glad to see you like the concepts of the deck. I would say that the decklist is only about 20% of the work I put into this deck. 30-40% comes from playtesting and calculations/statistics, and the other 30% comes from analysis on functions of cards in the deck that apply to the deck.

Ever since I realized that playing 4 Master was consistent off 4 Seats and 3/3 Opal/Diamond, and realizing that a 2nd color can be splashed with ZERO issues as long as you are running another 4 artifact lands, there's a whole new dimension for the deck in terms of design. Canonist can definitely be played in a white splash, and would greatly solidfy matchups where it's needed. However, the main reason I still see that Master of Etherium being much more valuable than Canonist is simply that the deck needs win-conditions that are independnt on other cards. In addition, postboard, Steel Stompy with Thorns should be able to handle the matchups where Canonist is concerned (combo/control). against aggro decks, Canonist will be a retarding 2/2 body that eventally does nothing. IT's the same reason why Revoker sometimes feel underwhelming in the deck.

The big issue in trying to play decks that require imposed conditions on other cards is:
If you are doing so, you better make sure the combination of card is back-breaking enough e.g. Countertop, Natural Order + green dude, Show and Tell, Metalworker in Meandeck MUD. The only thing I don't like in your list is Metalworker. Trust me, I love Metalworker and it's one of my favorite cards in MTG, but I'm done trying to make him work. The simple fact is, Metalworker only works if your deck is built around it, and Steel Stompy's main philosophy is to avoid building decks upon a bent strategy. It primary wants to play every spell the way it is, powerful and full of potential and only be interested in synergies, and not dependencies between cards. Now, there is nothing wrong with Metalworker in Stompy/MUD, but I'll highlight that it is not for Steel Stompy, and the discussion be best improved on the other MUD threads. My only advice even if you plan to test Metalworker is to play 4 Diamonds (since you want to get turn 1 Metalworker. Turn 2 Metalworker is highly unimpressive when bulk of the spells in the deck can already be casted without Metalworker.

I do enjoy Steel Hellkite, and wonder if playing 2 in the Sideboard is stronger than playing the ratchet bombs. It's a little slow, but against matchups where it matters (Moat/Enchantress), it's quite a beast, I'm still leaning to Ratchet Bombs since they're great against Dredge/Belcher.

If there's one thing that I've learned from 4 years of playing legacy, and hearing comments that Stompy/Stax suck, I've finally learned why. The fundamental reason why Stax isn't too successful in Legacy as it is in Vintage is because of the heavier aggro component in Legacy. Stax has multiple outs to aggro (Magus + Geddon, Oring, Ghostly Prison), but the most important fact that none of these are absolute outs. And many times, the outs onl work when cards are paired together (Armageddon + Ghostly Prison, argaeddon + tabernacle effect). This is the reason why Stax faces a harder time against aggro and blue-based control would be the better control-role in Legacy against aggro. Stax does enjoy the upperhand of beating combo easily unless they go first and thoughtseize out a 3sphere.

The problem with Stompy, was fundamentally it was an aggro beatdown deck that could only win firmly when a lockpiece is involved. If Stompy simply played creatures without disruption, then it is very likely to lose (there's a reason why Legacy is filled with creatures like Goyfs instead of arc-sloggers and abyssal persecutors). The problem eventually became: you can never ensure that you can cast a turn 1 lockpiece unless you ran at least 6-8. However, running 6-8 lockpieces do not guanratee you draw them every game, or have the ability to play them turn 1 every game. Not to mention playing against decks that play Vials/hierarchs. The entire strategy crumbles when you draw below average or they have a counterstrategy inbuilt in their decks.

After this analysis (lots of experience as well), I decided I was willing to give up the bomb-approach of traditional stompy (sadly not being able to win games with blowout turn 1 Trinisphere is something to grieve over), and focus on a more beatdown approach with disruption. It took me awhile (1-2 months) to figure out that Steel Stompy played best as a tempo beatdown role (e.g. Merfolks). If I played it differently, the deck had to change towards either affinity or MUD-prison, and would cease to be what the list is today. all your suggestions have been great, and I've definitely missed out on previousl suggested cards e.g. Tezzeret 2.0, Inkmoth Nexus so keep them coming! But I hope you guys understand the unwillingness to change parts of the deck isn't due to ignorance, but rather I have to really think through the implications it has on the entire deck, and you can probably tell why I reject cards like metalworker so readily because if you've followed my train of thought, you'll understand why metalworker isn't too hot in the deck.


@darkshineknight:

I really really really like your list. If I were facing a more combo-heavy and control-heavy metagame, I'm 100% sure your list functions better than my list. In fact, the older list I played had 4 Wasteland, 3 crucibles, 3 Ports, and the only slots that differed from yours was having 4 Platings instead of 3 Trinisphere in the maindeck.

You may argue that Trinisphere is better than Plating, but I want to point out that I feel strongly that Plating is superior in a general metagame. Trinisphere loses to Vial/Hierarch on the draw, and since the deck isn't full MUD or full Affinity, the lockpieces that are played out need to be maintained in order to be effective. Since Steel Stompy is tending towards a beatdown deck for most parts, I usually prefer to win much faster with Plating.

hoever your list is definitely a good spin on a metagame tending towards more control/combo and less vial/hierarch.

[daugarten]

Hey Metalwalker, just wanted to finally post to let you know I've been following your post since Day 1 and appreciate all the work you put into the primer. It's clear that you not only want to show the community what a great deck you've created, but you write with the intention that others will hopefully pick it up and give it a whirl. If I had the budget this would be my deck for sure. Keep the updates coming :)

[GGoober]

Thanks daugarten, will continue to try to improve the deck. It's still pretty underdeveloped as there's quite a lot of tweaking in terms of the correct ratio of cards.

Rukus on the forums suggested a 4/2 Opal/Diamond split that I had been ignoring due to "emotional" feelings tied to playing 4 legendary copies of a card v.s. 3. I went ahead and did some calculations. The reason why things that don't look good without calculations can entirely change our views is because the concept of how many cards should be played ties directly what you want to do with the card.

Take for example the 4 v.s. 3 copies of Opal. What is the goal of Opal for this deck? I'll list out exactly what this deck wants out of playing Opal i.e. the goals of Opal that I feel make the deck strong and therefore the statistics should fit into these goals if possible
1) Draw ONE Opal by turn two (i.e. if I have turn two Opal, I feel that this deck should be pulling ahead in games)
2) Draw ONE Opal for turns three and four (i.e. I don't want to see two Opals on turn three and four ideally since I want to draw business spells)
3) Draw more than one Opal on turn 5 or later (i.e. by turn 5, I should have emptied my hand, and drawing any card is irrelevant at that point i.e. you could draw lands, opals, useless cards but the priority is to ensure that multiple Opals should be drawn on turn 5 or later).

Obviously if you change the goals for Opal, the maths changes, but I feel that I'm laying out realistic goals for Opal and then working to check which ratio of 4 v.s. 3 copies of Opal is ideal to hit these goals.

Here're the results from calculations:
Running 4 Opals

Opals Drawn....3..........2..........1..........0
Turn 1:........0.36%.....5.76% .....33.27%....60.60%
Turn 2:........0.57%.....7.39% .....35.91%....56.11%
Turn 3:........0.84%.....9.15% .....38.11%....51.88%
Turn 4:........1.17%.....10.99% ....39.91.%....47.89%
Turn 5:........1.58%.....12.91%.....41.31%....44.13%
Turn 6:........2.07%.....14.87% .....42.37%....40.60%
Turn 7:........2.63%.....16.86% .....43.09%....37.29%


Running 3 Opals

Opals Drawn....3..........2..........1..........0
Turn 1:........0.10%.....3.15% .....27.83%....68.92%
Turn 2:........0.16%.....4.12% .....30.63%....65.09%
Turn 3:........0.23%.....5.20% .....33.16%....61.41%
Turn 4:........0.33%.....6.38% ....35.43%....57.86%
Turn 5:........0.46%.....7.64% .....37.44%....54.46%
Turn 6:........0.61%.....8.99% .....39.21%....51.19%
Turn 7:........0.79%.....10.40% .....40.74%....48.06%


To analyze this data, we compare it to the goals (note the bolded data above relates to the goals)

Analysis for 4 Opals minus 3 Opals [analysis for 1 Opal drawn in "[ ]" brackets] (analysis for 2 Opals drawn in "( )" brackets)
Turn 1: [5.44%] (2.61%)
Turn 2: [5.28%] (3.27%)
Turn 3: [4.95%] (3.95%)
Turn 4: [4.48%] (4.62%)
Turn 5: [3.87%] (5.27%)
Turn 6: [3.15%] (5.89%)
Turn 7: [2.34%] (6.46%)

We see that playing 4 Opals, we will have 5.44%, 5.28%, 4.95%, 4.48% more chance to draw it on turns 1, 2, 3, 4 than from playing 3 Opals. There is the risk of drawing double Opals on turn 1, 2, 3, 4 with the risk being 2.61%, 3.27%, 3.95%, 4.62%.

From turns 5, 6, 7, the chance to continue to draw just 1 Opal by playing 4 Opals over 3 Opals is 3.87%, 3.15%, 2.34% and the risk of drawing double Opal is 5.27%, 5.89%, 6.46%.

Now, I'm not sure how to analyze risk, but for argument's sake, let's pretend that each % point in drawing 1 Opal is the same as drawing 2 Opals (sometimes you can say that the % point value for risk of drawing double Opal should be higher since it's a dead card, but the games won by drawing the 1 Opal instead of drawing none could be huge as well, so I'm not going to debate how to assign values to % point. In the future, I would like to work out some equations on how to assign 'values' to cards, i.e. how important certain cards are based on how many games they win you the game etc)

Back on topic, assuming each % point in value from drawing 1 Opal is the same as the % point in risk from drawing double Opal:
We see that by playing 4 Opals over 3 Opals,
Turn 1: [5.44%] - (2.61%) = +2.83%
Turn 2: [5.28%] - (3.27%) = +2.01%
Turn 3: [4.95%] - (3.95%) = +1.01%
Turn 4: [4.48%] - (4.62%) = -0.14%
Turn 5: [3.87%] - (5.27%) = -1.4%
Turn 6: [3.15%] - (5.89%) = -2.73%
Turn 7: [2.34%] - (6.46%) = -4.12%

The benefits of playin 4 Opals over 3 Opals breaks even on Turn 6 to turn 7. On Turn 6, the overall value of playing 4 Opals over 3 Opals is the sum of these % values = +1.58%. On Turn 7, the overall risk on playing 4 Opals over 3 Opals is now -2.53% and gets worse as the turn drags on (since you'l draw more Opals the longer the game drags).

But this analysis has been very interesting for me. Remeber that the result of the analysis is dependent on what we expect and how we set up the goals for the scenario. In the 3 Goals I have provided above, it seems that for turns 1 to 6, playing 4 Opals is more ideal than 3. Playing 4 Opals will allow you to see 1 Opal on turns 2 to 5 much more frequently, and although there's the risk of drawing double Opals earlier as well, we see that this does not set in until turn 7. If you assign more value in drawing an Opal early and less value than drawing double Opal (which I personally do), then this analysis skews even more in favor for playing 4 Opals over 3.

Lastly, I tested over 10 games with a friend with the 4/2 split. I liked it better. I tested another 30+ goldfished games before I slept just to get a feel, and it felt better. The main reason isn't really just entirely drawing Opal early frequently (40 games is not enough to tell), but the big plus was I no longer have the feeling I'm out of lands. For some god-damn reason, Mox Diamond still sucks with a high land count. i.e. cards disappearing (card disadvantage) is a horrible feeling. I think that 2 Diamonds is still great, in making sure you have 8 Sol-lands + 2 Diamonds = 10 ways to grab 2 mana on turn 1. Anyway, the computation will be tougher when Diamond isin the picture figuring out the 4/2 split. But that's for another time. I'll try to tabulate my results on Google docs in the future, but I'm usually lazy and just want to play video games. I know these analysis have to be done at one point though. I have always disliked the 'hand-wavy' arguments I think you should play 3 instead of 4 etc. I fall into that trap a lot, so thanks to you guys keeping the suggestion and letting me test these out. The way I think about MTG is: The maths and everything technical is inbuilt in deck design. The choices of cards/ratios are all determined by maths nothing else. When this is optimized, the rest is on the hands of the player i.e. playskill. Since I know that I'm not a good player (hopefully will get better), I want to know that my deck does what it's supposed to do, and any fault is pushed to the player/myself for not piloting the deck correctly. In summary, I don't want to tie emotions to my gameplay i.e. I bitch that I draw mutliple Opals in maybe 10% of games where those Opals had helped me win 80% of games because I got them out early. It's always easy for us to recognize the bad side of experiences than the good ones, and this whole analysis is to avoid that.

Anyway, I think Opal is pretty busted in Legacy decks that can support it. It's like playing Power 9 Moxen against decks without it. I always joke to my buddy that I draw Opal you lose. Most of the time it's true (since you just cast everything a turn faster without card disadvantage), but sometimes better cards and sweepers get in there :P

[tsabo_tavoc]

To analyze this data, we compare it to the goals (note the bolded data above relates to the goals)

Analysis for 4 Opals minus 3 Opals [analysis for 1 Opal drawn in "[ ]" brackets] (analysis for 2 Opals drawn in "( )" brackets)
Turn 1: [5.44%] (2.61%)
Turn 2: [5.28%] (3.27%)
Turn 3: [4.95%] (3.95%)
Turn 4: [4.48%] (4.62%)
Turn 5: [3.87%] (5.27%)
Turn 6: [3.15%] (5.89%)
Turn 7: [2.34%] (6.46%)

We see that playing 4 Opals, we will have 5.44%, 5.28%, 4.95%, 4.48% more chance to draw it on turns 1, 2, 3, 4 than from playing 3 Opals. There is the risk of drawing double Opals on turn 1, 2, 3, 4 with the risk being 2.61%, 3.27%, 3.95%, 4.62%.

From turns 5, 6, 7, the chance to continue to draw just 1 Opal by playing 4 Opals over 3 Opals is 3.87%, 3.15%, 2.34% and the risk of drawing double Opal is 5.27%, 5.89%, 6.46%.

Now, I'm not sure how to analyze risk, but for argument's sake, let's pretend that each % point in drawing 1 Opal is the same as drawing 2 Opals (sometimes you can say that the % point value for risk of drawing double Opal should be higher since it's a dead card, but the games won by drawing the 1 Opal instead of drawing none could be huge as well, so I'm not going to debate how to assign values to % point. In the future, I would like to work out some equations on how to assign 'values' to cards, i.e. how important certain cards are based on how many games they win you the game etc)

Back on topic, assuming each % point in value from drawing 1 Opal is the same as the % point in risk from drawing double Opal:
We see that by playing 4 Opals over 3 Opals,
Turn 1: [5.44%] - (2.61%) = +2.83%
Turn 2: [5.28%] - (3.27%) = +2.01%
Turn 3: [4.95%] - (3.95%) = +1.01%
Turn 4: [4.48%] - (4.62%) = -0.14%
Turn 5: [3.87%] - (5.27%) = -1.4%
Turn 6: [3.15%] - (5.89%) = -2.73%
Turn 7: [2.34%] - (6.46%) = -4.12%

The benefits of playin 4 Opals over 3 Opals breaks even on Turn 6 to turn 7. On Turn 6, the overall value of playing 4 Opals over 3 Opals is the sum of these % values = +1.58%. On Turn 7, the overall risk on playing 4 Opals over 3 Opals is now -2.53% and gets worse as the turn drags on (since you'l draw more Opals the longer the game drags).

Very nice analysis! Also, it applies to all decks running Opals, like Affinity and Painter:) Just to add, if the number in parantheses are changed to the differences in drawing multiples (instead of drawing 2), the zero point of the difference stays between Turn3-4, but that of difference sum will move to Turn 5-6. 4 Opals are still superior by your arguments, but less overwhelming.

[GGoober]

Good catch! Yes when typing it out here, I only considered 2 Opals drawn and not 3 to 4 because on my spreadsheets the numbers were very small (less than 1%), but that definitely adds in for the complete picture. Also forums don't let you 'tabulate' data (at least I dont' know how) so it's painful to type out another 2x7 entries of data :p

In the future I'll be uploading a lot of analysis on google docs. I think it's nice to have these information out for the community. Just to highlight the importance on the goals of analysis affecting the analysis.

Imagine in the above information that we are considering 4 Goyfs instead of 4 mox opal.

All the statistical data is the same, but the result will be different, because on how we set the goals e.g. I want to draw multiple goyfs, so that makes the analysis result different from above. I.e. playing 4 Goyfs will always be better than playing 3, unless you don't want to see Goyfs as frequently on turns 6+ (you're crazy then). If it's an analysis about 4th Goyf v.s. 3rd Knight, that would be much more complicated to set up, but not impossible, just have to isolate certain fields and make a few assumptions.

[daugarten]

Quick question: Your analysis was based on 61 cards, correct?

The numbers will probably all inflate ever so slightly for a standard 60-card deck, I think.

[Tacosnape]

If they are more than 5 life, Inkmoth in every situation without a pump is going to win faster than Inkmoth.

I'd like this explained. If an opponent is at 8, for example, Blinkmoth wins in 8 swings, Inkmoth wins in 10.

[GGoober]

typo error there taco :P

And yes analysis was with 61 cards. 60v.s. 61 cards affect 4-card analysis by about 0.4% to 1.2% depending on how many turns have passed.

[Koby]

Another awesome analysis Metalworker! The part I really love about Opal in this deck is that it enables such a quick clock as early as turn 2 Lodestone. I am definitly in the camp that will be running both black and blkue for Tezz and the better sb. Look out for me testing this deck on MTGO. I'll keep a spreadsheet with test games and notes and then we could run some analysis on the results to validate the setup.

[Spooks]

My buddies are on the way over for some testing, i'm expecting to be playing this list versus Boros, Stasis, Ravager Affinity and maybe some rogue decks. I'll let ya'll know how it pans out, and a big thank-you to Metalworker for all your efforts getting this list looking so tidy!

[KnightElite]

Thanks for this very cool decklist Metalworker, I really like it (and appreciate the amount of effort you've put into it). I've been playing Meandeck MUD in legacy for the last little bit, and workshop aggro in Vintage since before Lodestone Golem got printed, so this is definitely the kind of deck I like to see. I may well try this out at the local legacy tournament next weekend.

That said, I noticed one significant flaw in your primer, that being this line:


With the recent inclusion of Tezzeret 2.0, Inkmoth has found itself yet another strong reason to be played over Blinkmoth. Even if you are not able to swing in, you are having a 5/5 flying infect blocker that will immediately shrink any dude on the defense. This is where a 5/5 Blinkmoth may sometimes be incapable of dealing with larger Goyfs/Knights and very often be a chump blocker.

Inkmoth Nexus + Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas interracts in such a way that it is impossible to get a 5/5 infect on your opponent's turn. Here's how this works:
On your turn, you turn Nexus into a 1/1 infect flyer. You then hit it with Tezzeret's -1 ability, and he is now a 5/5 infect flyer artifact creatre land until the end of the turn.
At the end of the turn, the nexus's "I am 1/1 infect flyer" ability stops working. Nexus is now a 5/5 non-flying non-infect artifact creature land.
Your opponent attacks you, and you want to block with your 5/5 Nexus. When you animate it, its ability makes it a 1/1 flying infect creature again (since both Tezzeret's and Nexus' power/toughness abilities are set at the same layer, timestamp order is applied, with nexus' effect being more recent). Nexus becomes a 1/1 creature, instead of 5/5.
This means that two uses of Tezzeret's -1 ability are required to make nexus 5/5 flying infect twice to hit for 10 poison.

Hope this hasn't been too important to your testing with Tezzeret in the list :).

[Koby]

I'm keeping an active log through my playtesting.

Click here to view (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0An9giloPs1B4dHVXcmtaeEx6OXhqOVRhTlBkNVdvNkE&hl=en&authkey=CJjll4EN). Please let me know if there's any suggestions for stuff to keep track of, such as drawing a specific card, or opening hands.

[GGoober]

Hey KnightElite, thanks for that great piece of info! I'll update the primer to include this. Like I said, I'm a terrible player, so thanks for pointing this valuable information out. Better to scrub out online in theorycrafting than actual games :P

@Rukcus, that is a great log (I need to start doing those myself). I usually don't have patience to keep a log and report for tournaments I play but this will be great. I think a great thing to keep track of is:

1) Opening hands with X lands playing 22-24 lands in the deck. How many lands did you keep e.g. 2 or 3, how many of those hands you kept that lost to an opposing Wasteland (this deck's curve is pretty high).
2) How many hands with Mox Diamond did you feel was underwhelming i.e. do we really need fast mana on turn 1? Or is it better to mull the no-Sol-land hands to find a Sol-land and a 2-drop.

Basically, think of the TLDR of the analysis 3 post above as:
Imagine that you drew an opening hand of 2 Opals. That's bad. Now, Imagine you drew an opening hand of Mox Diamond. Assume you don't need the Mox mana on turn 1, casting the Diamond is the same as having a dead card (i.e. the land discarded was the card disadvantage). Now, you do get to recur the lands back with Crucible, but putting Crucible outside the picture, the only benefit that Diamond has in this scenario is providing turn 1 mana that Opal doesn't to no-Sol-land hands, or to be played later while discarding lands. Regardless, the initial startup cost is the same as a dead card where 2 Opals were drawn. For this very reason, I understand why I hated Chrome Mox so much in Stompy decks. I felt I was losing a lot of gas too fast while my opponent still had a huge hand of answers. I still think at least 2-3 Diamond is needed in the deck because to ensure higher chances on hitting 2 mana without sol-lands to cast post-board hate to combo, and to start with 2 mana in most games. But it stresses the huge power level between Diamond and Opal.

Got my foil Tezzerets in today, so I'll be able to play this list tomorrow :) I tested over 15 games with RB Goblins today. All pre-board games i.e. I have no 2x Jitte, he has no Tuk Tuks and maybe Pyrokinesis or Shattering Sprees.

He won about 7 games, I won about 8 games. They were pretty even games with myself pulling a little ahead. I think 4-5 games he won with turn 1 Lackeys and me not having blockers/outs/bounced/edicted blockers. The other games where Lackey is out of the picture, I won. If Goblins is unable to get Lackey, you can beat it fairly easily without Jitte. He won 1-2 games with fast Warchiefs and chaining Ringleaders, but I think the matchup is very favored for Steel Stompy if Lackey is out of the picture (Vial is still too slow against Steel Stompy), and very unfavored for STeel Stompy if Lackey connects.

Rukcus, I disagree with the SB plan against goblins. I would keep Chalice in if I'm on the play. Being able to draw Chalice@1 on turn 1 = win when both Lackey and Vial are out of the picture.

Favorite opening against aggro decks without removal on turn 1 for Steel Stompy:
Turn 1 Overseer, Turn 2 Lodestone put +1/+1 counter on both dudes, turn 3 Master/Champion/Revoker/Plating/etc + Wasteland = 2 turns behind and facing a 7/5 Golem and 3/3 Overseer + turn 3 play GG

[Koby]

@CotV SB,
I suppose this is a force of habit with Chalice decks vs Vial. 100% agree that on the draw, CotV loses much of it's utility vs Merfolk and Goblins. SoFI might be the right call here, but is still expensive. Champion also does a good job stemming these matchups, esp with our own Jitte.

Right now, my deck is build with 22 lands - 3 Vaults 2 Blinkmoth 1 Factory (don't have Inkmoths yet)

[GGoober]

@Rukcus:

I think Chalice@1 on the play/draw is not worth it against Merfolks. To just shut Vial down isn't worth it, and Merfolks is quite favored for us even if they get Vial (still have Revoker as outs and Overseer and lots of other dudes + Jitte/SoFI). Ratchet Bomb is VERY good against Merfolks. It gives you 3 Bomb + 4 Revoker against Vial, and sweeps their 2cmc board. I board out -2 Crucible, -2 Tezz, -2 Plating, +2 Jitte, +1 SOFI, +3 Ratchet today.

On the other hand, against Goblins:
On the Play, I don't board out Chalice. It hits 4 Lackeys, 4 Vials, well worth it if I drew it. If I don't draw it, then it's a dead card most likely, but no other sideboard card has the best chance to deal with Lackey on the play (even Jitte isn't as powerful as Chalice on the play against gobs when you need to shut off Lackey).

If there's any sideboard plans/strategies that you feel is superior/flawed please discuss it, because these are my thoughts, but sometimes I feel taht I'm boarding wrong against matchups, e.g. sometimes I feel that the maindeck as it is is strong against certain matchups instead of trying to board cards in out and diluting the original strategy.

On the Draw, I board OUT Chalice. It's dead in every way once they get either/and Lackey/Vial in play. I board in 2 Jittes, 1 SoFI and keep everything in. RAtchet Bomb is bad against Goblins since the critical cards to hit are actually 3cmc cards i.e. Warchief. You can block Piledriver all day long but Warchief is what makes them have a huge edge since they are 2 turns faster for every creature dropped.

I probably won't type a report, but I took '2nd' Place for the GP Providence Trial at my local store. We had 17 players (not a lot but still about 5 rounds), so some brief notes. List is in the Opening post (most current list).

Match 1: UB Merfolks (2-0-0)
G1: Chalice@1 shuts his 2 Vials + 1 Cursecatcher hand. Overseer + Dudes get in there
G2: Keep double Ratchet Bomb hand (so awesome). Play Overseer resolves, he resolves Vial, play Bomb and clear Vial, Golem gets online next dodging Daze, Wasteland on Sea GG. He had 2 LoA, 1 Coralhelm, 3 Daze stuck in his hand. Golem killed all those cards and Sol-lands dodged the daze for Golem.

Match 2: Junk (1-2-0)
G1: Junk is the worst matchup for this deck. I sigh. He does what Junk does kills every creature and discard my hand. I manage to sneak a Plating, and 2 hit with Inkmoth FTW.
G2: I mull to 5 from no lands, still a weak hand. He wins it easily with a Hymn
G3: Game was intense, too lazy to go to detail. But basically Jitte is a good counter to Steel Stompy (Inkmoth and Champion). I have Revoker naming Jitte + Etched Champion in play so his Knight can't swing in. He plays Elspeth makes a dude. I have plating in hand going to go in with Champion to kill Elspeth in 1 hit. He plays EPlague naming Horror killing Revoker, jumps soldier with Jitte, kills Champion, GG. EPlague naming Horror was game winning :(

Match 3: Goblins (2-1-0)
G1: He has no turn 1 Lackey. Theorem 6 in Steel Stompy: If Goblins has no Lackey in play, I win. QED (i.e. proof proved!).
G2: He has Lackey, I have Overseer to block. He has removal, he has siege gang. The reverse of Theorem 6 holds true it seems (I lose if they connect with Lackey and if I have no Jitte active).
G3: He has no lackey again, but this time I bring in the pain with Jitte. He had the choice to get double Warren's Wierding to stop Jitte from getting counters but he opted for Warchief instead. Jitte gets counter and it was too much for Gobs to handle. Even if he did double Weirding me, I still had 3 more dudes in hand. He has to answer Jitte this game which doesn't seem like he could get enough Matrons for Weirdings and tuktuks (not sure if he was playing one) but I think he was tied on mana when I dropped Golem after his matron

Match 4: Pox (2-1-0)
G1: He mulls to 5. I keep a nice hand of 7 with Champions. He tempos me with removal, innocent blood on Champion, plays a Chimeric Mass for 4, kills me with a 4/4. He probably drew really well to have removal for every dude I played and maintaining 4 land drops :/
G2: I rage, Turn 1 Chalice, drop Opal. He hits 2 mana Ratchet Bombs Chalice + Opal. I rage and play Winter Orb in my opening hand. He untaps 1 land, I untap Tomb, play another Opal + Land, Lodestone him. He untaps another land (misses a land drop), I waste his land swing 5. He untaps land ( only 2 untapped). I untap and drop 2nd Lodestone GG
G3: He has double Bloodghast eating in on me. My Chalice@1 Resolves with REvoker on Ratchet Bomb. Master + Revoker > Double Bloodghast and 3 Innocent Blood locked under a Chalice@1.


Match 5: TES (2-0-0)
G1: I keep hand: Ancient Tomb, Overseer, Chalice, Seat, Double Plating, Opal. He wins die roll. If he has Duress I cry. He starts the game with USea, tap for black and make me cry. I drop Overseer turn 2. Turn 3 I equip 1 Plating hit him down to 13. Turn 4 I kill him with double plating. His brainstorm was crappy so he couldn't go off turn 3. I would not have won without Double Plating in this scenario

G2: I mull to 6. Keep a hand of Turn 1 Thorn + Wasteland + Golem + Ratchet + Revoker. I play Turn 1 Thorn, followed up with Revoker on Petals (didn't name LED since I felt it was hard for TES to storm up without removing Thorns so LED wasn't relevant where Petal was more relevant in fighting Thorns to grab hate). I hit 4 mana drop a Lodestone, wasteland it was GG. Clock was 3 turns. I love Lodestone Golem aka Trinisphere + 5/3 in one card. AMAZING!

I dropped the Top 4 to let my buddies have a shot at the byes for GPT. My result standing was 2nd place (4-1-0), with Junk having a record of (4-0-1)


PROPS:
- Tezzeret was pretty powerful in games where I resolved him. He's really really quite broken in this deck. However, since I played Pox/TES, I actually boarded him out due to bad synergy with Thorns, and being a little slow, but otherwise he's quite a powerful force. I usually use his +1 80% of the time unless his -1 allows me to swing for lethal. It's much better to keep drawing threats, and using him as a distraction while you play even more distracting pieces (usually you want to impulse with his +1 and find Plating/Golem/Champion/Master).
- Solid Combo matchup
- Beat Goblins if they don't have lackeys
- Plating is broken.
- Lodestone is quite nuts on turn 2.

SLOPS:
- Junk is very unfavorable. The only way to win is with Plating, nothing else. Perish isn't good against Junk since they don't ever need to overextend when your board is always empty. If they play Deeds, it's just tough. I think AFfinity has much better matchup against Junk despite being more fragile to Deed than this deck, because it just kills them faster before Deed is ever relevant
- Losing to a mulled-to-5 Pox.
- Perish not being useful today.

Just a disclaimer, Steel Stompy is still in its infant stage. The black splash gives you 2 Tezz 2.0 MD with Perish in the SB. The white splash is another very strong alternative, giving you 4 Canonist over 4 Revoker MD, and in the SB you can play Karmic Justices against decks taht rape you (e.g. Junk) or Hanna's Custody. However, I think the white splash doesn't offer as the black splash in terms of card value, but the most exciting thing is, we still have new phyrexia to look forward to, to more SB/color options. White is huge potential with 4 Canonist (you don't replace any slots except for Revokers), and depending whata New Phyrexia gives. Here's hoping Karn Planeswalker doesn't suck. So far Tezz fits very nicely in what the deck needs. Impulse for 5 is really strong. I impulsed twice with Tezz to dig for a plating (that's digging 10 cards in 2 turns in a Stompy deck! WTF?!)

[Mayckol]

Hi there!

I'd like to tell you about my experience with this deck....first of all, I think this is a very good deck, maybe not a tier1 but it's very good and interesting deck to play in a field with almost none traditional zoo.... like mine

Last sunday I went to a qualifier to Brazilian National Legacy Championship decided to get this deck (I've been testing the Ub version for 1 month....) a chance.

I finished 14th of about 70 players.... with a result of 4-2.

this is the list I played.

lands:
4 Tomb
4 City
4 Synod
4 Vault of whispers
4 wasteland
4 inkmoth

acceleration
3 opal
3 diamond

creatures
4 overseer
4 golem
4 master of etherium
3 revoker
4 champion

control
4 chalice
2 CoW

equip:
1 Jitte
1 Cranial
1 Fire and Ice
1 Light and Shadow

2 tezz, agent of bolas

side
3 thinisphere
3 perish
3 relic of prog
3 ensnaring bridge
1 thopter foundry (I forgot to take it off after some tests in the day before....)
2 ratchet bomb



My parings:

match 1: teammate with GW Taxes

It's not a good game for steel stompy in my opinion. It's better than mono w death & taxes but qasalis are terrible....

game1 - I couldn't do anything good and he draw 3 qasalis and a KotR....
game2 - I made my great mistake.... I didn't sided in the perishs, only bombs and relics. This game stand too long and in the late game my draw sequence was: land, land, champion, land, land, land, while he played KotR, Gaddock, Qasali and something else..... I lost

0-1

Match 2: BGW Junk

Another bad match.....
game1 - I thought he was playing goblins. I started with chalice>1 and he played a swamp, I played a land and a overseer and he a Hymn to Tourach, he removed my overseer, play goyf, KotR, I lost

Game 2 - side in Perish, relic. I started with chalice@1 again, lodestone turn2, overseer and a equip turn3..... win

Game 3 - He seize my golem (I think), after he HtT and I didn't have cards in my hand.... lost

0-2

I was very disapointed with the deck, I really wated to give up and just watch my teammates playing, but I kept playing, and deck rewarded me...

Match 3: Goblins Rb

Game 1 - he played a mountain and passed (it's a burn, I thought). I played a land (I think) and passed. He played a Piledriver, me a overseer, he another piledriver, me a Master and a revoker. He played two Goblin Guide and attacked with all.... I blocked killing Piledrivers and 1 GG, he gave up.

Game 2 - Side in 3nisphere - he played a guide that took me 6 life but my creatures became very big very fast and I won.

1 - 2

Match 4 - New Affinity

I thought it'd be a complicated match because of affinity is very fast, but I was a little bit wrong.

Game 1 and 2 were similar: he played some creatures and a signal pest, bit me to low life (about 4-5) and I controlled the game with CoW and Wasteland recursive, chalice@1 and 3nisphere (this is the best card against this deck in my opinion).....

2-2

Match 5 - Enchantress

I really didn't know how to play against this deck (I've never tested this match).

Game 1 - He played a forest and a aura over his forest (I don't remenber what). I played a chalice@1, he did a presence. I did a golem and stomped him.

Game 2 - Side in bomb - turn 2 he played a Aura of silence (I really didn't like it...) but I draw a inkmoth and I had a overseer in battlefield.... 3 turns and he was infected.....

3 - 2

Match 6 - Thopter control

Game 1 - I couldn't realize what he was playing in game 1 until he played a thopter foundry in turn 1x.... I killed with two or three big creatures I don't remember.

Game 2 - no side - This game was very long too.... he played Jace TMS, needle, bloodmoon, ensnaring bridge and a lot of things to delay me....and.... I play Tezzeret and he said (Oh, I lost.... but lets play) two turns after that I had 10 artifacts in play and ultimated him..... It was awesome.

4 - 2

I liked to see how this deck is against the major os most popular decks in my field. After the championship I tested against combo (won 3-1), monored control (won 4-1), new affinity (won 2-0).

Probably I'll get this deck another chance in the next championship...

So it's all...

Sorry my english mistakes and my memory for details....

See ya

[GGoober]

Hey there congrats for the performance. Yes anything with GW is usually automatically a 50-50 matchup if not worse. If they play Pridemage it's 50-50 or worse. The worst matchup is Junk. It's near impossible to win unless you draw the nuts and win the die roll. Nuts being Turn 1 Chalice, Turn 2 Golem, Wasteland, or getting multiple Champions fast. There is a way to salvage the matchup and that involves Cranial Plating, the same way Affinity beats Junk before Deed is relevant.\

It sounds that you drew very below average against GW Taxes and he drew the nuts in Game 1, and you misboarded. Otherwise I think you would have had a good shot against GW Taxes. There's really nothign much against Junk, you will usually lose in most scenarios. I think your 4-2 performance was a strong one, considering you could have went 5-1 if you drew better. And I don't really blame this on Steel Stompy being Stompy because GW Taxes isn't say the most consistent deck of all time, in fact Steel stompy should be as consistent as GW Taxes in terms on what the deck is supposed to do with the given card ratios/choices in the deck. Variance is just a bitch sometimes :)

Zoo is actually quite favorable. The harder Zoo matchups are Big Zoo running Punishing Fire, otherwise it's usually 50-50 and usually 60-40 or better for Steel Stompy.

It's awesome to hear your Tezzeret in action. By the time you cast him, you usually have 6-8 artifacts in play, so it's a huge lifeswing. I myself have been happy to realize that the list supports Tezz and works great, allowing you to beat random Humility/Moats. The more I play, the more I feel that 24 land is still required (as the list you are playing). The deck really needs 4 mana consistently. When it hits 4 mana, it hits like a truck, otherwise it is playing subpar.

Dont get too upset with the Junk matchup. I personally find that Steel Stompy almost autolose to 2 decks: Junk/the Rock and Show and Tell. Everything else is fair game or in our favor. How was the Thopter Foundry testing that you've done? I really enjoy it on paper but never really tested it. I haven't had the thought to try a white version of Steel Stompy (Canonist replacing Revoker, and playing 2 Maindeck Thopters which work great with Overseer/Champion). The reason I'm staying with UB at the moment is the sheer power of Tezzeret 2.0. There's no card in existence that allows Stompy to dig 5 cards a turn and this is his biggest strength, not to mention his ultimate has so much synergy in the deck. I've gotten turn 2 Tezz 2.0 online quite a number of times and it's pretty backbreaking.

[GGoober]

UPDATES: need some comments for the following changes.

I goldfished about 50+ games yesterday (Sick so can't make it out to do some real-testing although tournament's tomorrow):

The more I draw into a Tezz 2, the more I feel that I win the game when he resolves. Currently the list is doing well with 2 Tezz but still runs into mana issues casting Tezz 2. The following changes I made (opening post list) is:

Lands: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Island
(not sure if Underground River is better since you don't risk losing to random Lord of Atlantis, otherwise Sea is strictly better than River outside of LoA)

Creatures: 19
4 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Master of Etherium
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem

Non-creatures: 18
2 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Cranial Plating
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard: 15
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Winter Orb
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Perish

I'm back up to 24 lands. My friend has been constantly urging me to play 24 lands and being the greedy magic player, I have been playing with 22-23. I took his advice and will probably settle on 24 lands again for the next few testings. The reason being: This deck folds to chaining Wastelands. Even if Wastelands are out of the picture, the deck is still very mana hungry, and doesn't want to afford any missed landdrops. The deck works best when you hit 4 mana, that's when you can fully dump your hand fast and apply threats and get Lodestones online instead of waiting for landdrops. I am working on some analysis, but playing with 24 lands allows the opening hand of 3 lands to be seen with greatest frequency. I realized in most games that as long as I have 3-4 lands in my opening hand, I should be set in most games, whereas games where I lead with 2 opening lands, I risk a lot of tempo loss from waiting for another land drop. The fundamental reason is that this is a stompy deck, without accelerants from Spirit Guides/Seething Song, so sometimes it's hard to hit the mana.

Im still keeping the 4 Opal 2 Diamond configuration. Drawing double Opal is still much better than drawing double Diamonds, and to some extent is not too bad when compared to drawing 1 Diamond (1 Diamond also translates to 1 dead card i.e. discarded land).

The original changes to the above list was -1 Vault, -1 Island, +2 Underground Sea, but I've decided on the current iteration because 2 Seas made myself more open to Merfolk's Lord of Atlantis, whereas the lone Island would have some benefits against random decks playing Paths or wastelock. The 4th Vault also gives a lot more bonuses to Master/Plating/Metalcraft/Tezz2.0. However, the other option is to play 2 Underground River but I'm not sure how good that is.

During the 50 games goldfished yesterday, Tezz 2.0 is castable to a better extent wiith this manabase. Ideally I would drop to zero Inkmoths, and have a rock solid manabase to play the UB suite in this deck, but Inkmoths themselves have won me about 30% of my games that I feel that proves enough of their relevance in this deck. However, one can drop the Inkmoths and drop Crucible for potentially better cards. I'm not sure yet. The synergy of Crucible increasing the value of wastelands/City of Traitors/Mox Diamonds and Inkmoth recurring has been great.

I used to playtest 3 Overseers, and that is definitely the wrong call. Overseer as a 4-off is definitely needed int he Maindeck. Turn 1 Overseer, turn 2-3 dudes = out of control very soon. Recently I've also been re-evaluating my line of play. E.g. When I open with a hand of Tomb, Overseer, Dudes, Chalice, I usually play out my Chalice@1 even when I'm on the draw. I'm starting to feel that if my hand is threat dense, giong for turn 1 Overseer and chaining dudes might be worth it against decks light on removal (e.g. Bant/Merfolks). The huge amount of value you get from a turn 1 Overseer might outweight the tempo gains from playing Chalice. I'm not sure yet though, but the situation all depends on your hand, what decks you're playing against, if you're going first or second, how many threats you can dump out on turn 2-3 with a turn 1 Overseer, whether you want to bait their removal on Overseer and letting Master/Golem push through. In most cases Chalice is the right play, but I can see how Overseer can be the rightplay in the right situatino.

[KnightElite]

I played your list in the last post (with Winter Orb swapped for Trinisphere, since I don't have orbs) at a tournament in town here on Saturday (12 people, so not real big) and got 2nd.

Here's how the tournament went:

Round 1: Dredge

Game 1: He does his thing and crushes me, since I didn't get a Chalice of the void early.

I SB in Ratchet Bombs to deal with his Zombies.

Game 2: I am sitting on a hand that can cast Chalice at 0 and 1, but I forget about Lion's Eye Diamond and just cast a single Chalice at 1. He procedes to annihilate me with his LED opener into deep analysis or something like that.

0-1

Round 2: Dredge Again

Game 1: He misplays several times (most significant being not responding to my casting Phyrexian Revoker by discarding with his Putrid Imp, letting me shut down his discard outlet), and lets me drop several large guys into play and I am able to race him.

Game 2: He does what dredge does again, and kills me.

Game 3: Turn 1 Chalice slows him down considerably, followed by Ratchet bomb and Revoker. Then Lodestone Golem and Cranial Plating defeat him, after I get him to chump block a 5/5 chalice of the void so his 3 Bridge from Below get exiled.

1-1

Round 3: Tezzeret Affinity

Both games he keeps land-light hands and I am able to wasteland away/chalice him such that his hands are not all that effective, and he can never cast the Tezzerets that are in his hand. Notably in game 1 Turn 1 revoker on the draw naming Cranial Plating basically won me the game, since I knew his list doesn't run Disciple of the Vault/Arcbound Ravager so plating was definitely the biggest threat.

2-1

Round 4: ANT

Game 1: I get a slower start (and I thought he was playing Merfolk, since that is what he usually plays), and he combos me out on turn 2.

Game 2: Turn 1 Chalice, Turn 2 Trinisphere followed by Lodestone Golem does him in, as he can never get quite enough mana to cast Rebuild

Game 3: I keep a chalice, ancient tomb, inkmoth , mox opal, mox diamond, Master of Etherium hand. He Duresses me on turn 1, takes the chalice. I draw another chalice, and cast chalice at 1, two moxes, and revoker naming Lotus Petal since he cast two petals on turn 1 to avoid Trinisphere later. Revoker, Master of Etherium and Cranial Plating get there.

3-1.

Semi-Finals: Mono-Blue Merfolk

I can't recall the games exactly here either, though the deck basically did what it's supposed to do in this matchup by going bigger than he did, and winning.

4-1
Finals: Counterbalance Thopter

Game 1: I get out some early guys, and eventually get there despite him sending 2 of my Lodestone Golems farming.

Game 2: I am feeling like I am doing well (Revoker naming top, Chalice at 1, Lodestone) and he casts Serenity and wrecks me, since it destroys my whole manabase except an inkmoth nexus.

Game 3: Similar to the last game, I get crushed by his one land hand with Serenity, since he eventually draws a second land.


Assessment:
I really like the deck so far, and may continue to play it, though artifact hate cards are tough. I think the thopter/counterbalance matchup is a little better than it seems, since at least his list only plays one Serenity (and one Engineered Explosives), and 4 tutors to go get them, which Chalice of the void shuts down reasonably well. Serenity was a card I had trouble beating when I was playing Meandeck MUD as well.

[GGoober]

Hey knight, thanks for the report.

I on the other hand, played a miniscule 8-man tourney and scrubbed out going 1-2 :P

Match 1: Meandeck MUD not a good matchup for sure (Golem + Champion being the pivotal cards in my deck are entirely dead) although I was very close to winning game 1.
Match 2: Show and Tell Eureka. I punted swinging into an INDESTRUCTIBLE Blightsteel Colossus with a 15/2 Plated Etched Champion thinking I'll trade with the colossus. Brainfart.
Match 3: RB Goblins win. Game 1: Chalice@1 = no lackey = I win, Game 2: He no lackey = I win.

Then I drowned my anger/sorrow by testing multiple landstill matchups against Junk, and surprisingly did better than 50/50 in pre/postboard games. My friend and I were surprised because this used to be a matchup in his favor.

Anyway, regarding your report:
I will be sad to say that Steel Stompy inherently has a few problematic, almost unsalvageable matchups i.e. 30-70 matchups. I think Steel Stompy still can't really be played as a Stompy deck in most metagames because like all Stompy decks, it's really good at killing certain decks. I'll share the matchup analysis for the community on what this deck beats and loses to.

70-30
- TES/Tide/DDFT/Belcher Combo postboard (especially if on the play). The order of combo you beat best are:
Belcher > TES/ANT > DDFT > Tide
- Merfolks, unless they get the NUTS hand, which they always do for some fucked up reason, so let's move this to the 60-40 bracket.
- Goblins if Lackey is not involved
- Little Zoo, sometimes this is hard if they have 2 Nacatls and you don't draw Champions.

60-40
- Merfolks
- Countertop
- Control
- Bant
- GW decks
- Aggro Loam (surprisingly)
- Big Zoo/Zenith Zoo

50-50
- Dredge preboard/postboard (I don't have hate except for Ratchet Bombs, you need to play +4 Thorn of Amethyst as well in this matchup and as much Jittes as you can afford).
- Death/Junk and Taxes. Basically you have to disrupt them before they get Mangara combo out, otherwise easy deck to beat.
- Team America/Threshold, if they out tempo you and you have a bunch of Revokers and Overseers in hand, you lose, if you resolve Thorn/Chalice and have a Maser/Champion/Golem, they lose.

40-60
- Meandeck MUD, if they draw greaves, you probably can't match them. Just let them mull to oblivion in most cases.
- Natural Order decks, this is now better with 3 Perish postboard, but still tough. I recently added Tangle Wires once again to help also in the Show and Tell matchups, and try to survive against Junk

30-70
- Junk junk junk, the rock. God damn stupid deck. Unsalvageable. You need to draw this kind of hand on the play to crush them: Turn 1 Chalice (hope they don't have Mox Diamond hand), Turn 2 Golem, Turn 3 Wasteland + Dude GG. Actually, this is like the god-hand for this deck so whatever :P
- Decks playing maindeck/SB Serenity and Pernicious Deed (my latest list with 8 artifact lands doesn't help this for sure).
- Emrakul decks (show and tell/sneak), you only have Tangle Wires as an out, and multiple Thorns/Golems hopefully, or draw a super aggressive hand and Show and Tell Champion into play and slap a plating win next turn (done this before)

The recent train of thought I had was to give up on 2 Tezz 2.0, play a white splash for Oblivion Ring. This is actually pretty amazing on paper since it answers to some extent the poorer Junk/Deed/Serenity matchup (play Oring) and also provides an out against Emrakul. The maindeck would probably be inclusions of Ethersworn Canonist instead of Revoker. I discarded the idea because Revoker is still better than Canonist MD since Canonist is only improving the matchups that I am already strong at. The Oring option is definitely somethign i'll explore again in the fture since it's the only way to beat my worst matchups. But once again, I fall back to the statement that if you sense plenty of said bad matchups above in your meta, don't sleeve this deck up. I'm putting this deck aside for a little while since it's not worth fighting against multiple Junk decks :P

If your meta ever becomes Countertop/Merfolks/Goblins/Zoo/Bant/Combo (which it should be!!), take this again for a spin :P

[KnightElite]

Yeah, you're probably right. I'll have to try something really different next time (no artifacts maybe? :)) to mess everyone up, since I basically always play MUD in Vintage/Legacy, so they won't expect Reanimator or whatever :).

[GGoober]

Heh, the current list is the more powerful list i.e. with Tezzeret 2.0 and Perish in the SB and very strong metalcraft turn 2. If artifact hate is a huge problem in limited decks, I'll opt for the older lists with 6-8 manlands and more Platings (don't cast Plating unless you're winning). It's not an autoloss, still worth the fight, but not worth the fight if you feel 1/3 of your meta has NARROW hate ready for you (Narrow = Ancient Grudge, Serenity, Energy Flux)

[perm]

Have you ever tried testing sphere of resistance over 3sphere? It stacks with lodestone golem unlike trinisphere, and is only worse as a single permanent with 0cc or 1cc. Also, multiples stack and dont become dead cards

[GGoober]

@Perm: I did test out 1 Sphere of Resistance Maindeck to increase the overall Lodestone-sphere effects to 5. This increased the overall Wasteland + Sphere effects to 9. I decided against this the night before SCG Dallas since I was suspecting more aggro/junk/tribal/zoo. If combo and non-aggro decks are prevalent, you can always play 2 more spheres maindeck. The reason I liked the 1 Sphere maindeck is it also gave me a denser sideboard against combo without wasting sideboard space.

I have not tested 4 Sphere of resistance and I do not intend to. I've done multiple 8-12Orb testings in the past, and everytime you get a sphere online, you lose to an opposing wastelands. The key reason is: A wasteland on your Ancient Tomb is much worse than your wasteland on their dual. Your deck functions off the accelerated mana, and if it's cut, you are behind. It's the same philosophy why every stompy deck should be playing 8 Sol-lands. There's hardly any excuse because the easiest flaw to spot in those excuse is "Look at your mana-curve, without a Sol-land, are you playing Legacy with a turn 3 3-drop?" No. It's also the same philosophy why I am more happy with the 23-24 land configurations even though 22 lands seem ideal on paper. This deck has to hit 3-4 lands to hit like a battering ram. If you miss just a land drop, you'll be a turn behind on the tempo you were originally trying to capture.

[Parax]

Hey metalwalker, i've been following this since the inception and have been considering running the lists.

However i have 1 question for you. How much better is the list that is running the TAoB? I don't have any at the moment but have or can get the rest of this deck pretty easily. So i was just wondering how much does Tezz really help? Should i run the colorless artifact land to up the chance of getting to Metalcraft earlier? Sorry if theseseem stupid, i know Tezz is wonderful, just how wonderful is he?

[GGoober]

@Parax:

The list works fine without Tezzeret. I'll recommend going -2 Tezz, +1 Revoker, 24th land, cut the Vault of Whispers to 3 and play with 6 manlands (4 Inkmoth, 2 Blinkmoth). I would still recommend playing 3 Vault of Whispers over 3 Darksteel Citadel for 2 reasons:

1) Perish in the SB against your weaker (40-60, 50-50) GWx matchups.
2) Occasional insta-speed equip cost for Plating matters in some games.

If you do not opt for Tezz, a white splash is actually quite good. Replace the vault of whispers with ancient dens and play Oblivion Rings in the sb. ORing gives you an out to Pernicious Deed (not a good one), Serenity, and Emrakul, all of which are your bad matchups.

However, I recommend not to take Steel Stompy to a metagame with more than 25% of decks running hate-cards like Pernicious Deed/Serenity. Steel Stompy is essentially like Affinity, except with better control and combo matchups, and has more resiliency rather than explosiveness (it can be freaking explosive though :P).

Regarding playing WITH Tezz:
1) You can power him out turn 2 (Turn 1: Ancient Tomb + 2cmc artifact, turn 2: Mox + artifact Land Tezz. This is as frequent as powering out a turn 2 Lodestone Golem since that also requires the same setup as mentioned earlier. Lodestones are more castable with 2 Sol-lands on turn 2 as an additional benefit.
2) Tezzeret's +1 is worth 2UB in this deck. There is no other card, except Peer Through Depths that allows you to dig 5 cards for the most powerful artifact. This is his MOST powerful ability in the deck, being able to dig through 10 cards in 2 turns is something you can never do in other Stomp decks.
3) Tezzeret's -1 can swing and end games fast when you get early Masters/Platings.
4) Tezzere'ts -4 (which happens immediately after his +1) usually tendrils for 16 damage from testing. It is rare that you will only have 5 artifacts in play in this deck when you cast Tezz. His -4 is important because it can create wins against aggro out of nowhere (puting you back to a favorable life position after all your Ancient Tomb and racing life totals). It is great against Humility/Ensnaring Bridge/Moat decks.
5) Overall: Tezzeret has strong synergy in this deck, with Etched Champion being able to defend him, and being castable with fast Sol-land mana, and lastly having all abilities that are relevant for the deck (namely the +1 and -4). His ultimate is almost completely unfair if you can protect him for one turn.
6) Steel Stompy has no real 'unfair' plays except for Chalice@1 in Legacy. Tezz is basically an 'unfair' card for this deck, a bomb if you would say.

But the list can play without Tezzeret. I've been trying to squeeze 3 Tezz in. I can't play him consistently. I don't understand how Blake (SCG Winner for SCG Dallas) played 4 Tezzeret with 4 Seat + 4 Vault + 4 Opal + 3 Springleaf beacuse my manabase is essentially the same with Springleaf being replaced by Mox Diamond. In practice, 3 Tezz is still great, but I want to avoid the situations where I have a dead Tezz in hand. Playing UB in this deck is almost the same as playing a U spell because in most course of the game, you'll hit at least 1 Artifact land (you run 8) and 1 Mox (you run 6).

[Parax]

I wouldn't mind going with Tezz, as i know he's great, i just have a feeling that after Zen Rotates, and the focus becomes more on the next set, i can see his stock falling some, then some more after the Mirrodin rotation. So its really more a "don't want to buy into his hype" thing that a not understanding how good he is. If i can find someone to borrow 2 i will.

I saw that you still had your old original list up. Is that the optimal tezz-less list? Thanks for not really shooting me down for not wanting to play Tezz, as most people here see not wanting to play card X, as not allowable.

[GGoober]

Firstly, I think Tezz 2.0 is probably going up in price when ZEN rotates due to Jace being pushed out making more decks viable. Brian Kibler and some Tezz lists in Standard are doing decent, so with the next artifact set, there's even more potential yet.

However, I would advice to play a list not based on speculation. Speculating card prices is outside on optimizing decklists. But if it's a cost-factor that you're concerned with, the no-Tezz build is definitely viable. The benefit of the Tezz build (i.e. UB version) is the ability to play Perish in the SB, better Metalcraft enablers and Tezzeret being incredible in games when resolved. I'll recommend you testing out both builds if you want to compare (like proxy it up etc). Now, the WEAKNESS of the Tezz build is losing even worse to Affinity hate-cards (since your manabase is highly unstable to Pernicious Deed/Serenity/Ancient Grudge). Other than that, I would probably opt to play the newer Tezz build if you don't expect too much narrow hate in your meta.

The 2nd list on the OP is the very first list I made. It's not optimal, but I put it there to watch how the deck has evolved, which sheds some light as to how the deck is developing based on the original.

Here's a no Tezz-list that served me pretty well. My SCG Dallas list can be found on the tournament report (a few pages back).

Lands: 23
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus

Creatures: 20
4 Steel Overseer
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Master of Etherium
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem

Non-creatures: 17
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
3 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard: 15
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tangle Wire
2 Winter Orb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 flex slots (Trinisphere, Tormod's Crypt etc)

[Parax]

You're list is very close to the list i was thinking of running.

Artifact
4 x Chalice of the Void
3 x Cranial Plating
3 x Crucible of Worlds
4 x Etched Champion
4 x Lodestone Golem
4 x Master of Etherium
3 x Mox Diamond
3 x Mox Opal
3 x Phyrexian Revoker
4 x Steel Overseer
2 x Umezawa's Jitte

23Land
3 x Blinkmoth Nexus
4 x City of Traitors
4 x Inkmoth Nexus
4 x Seat of the Synod
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x Wasteland

Was the list that i had thinking. Basically i thought that Jitte was faster than Swords, and opted for 2 of them instead of breaking up for Sword of Fire and Ice. Also you have to consider that we don't have anything to really fetch the sword for us, so splitting them 1/1 seems kind of Meh. What happens if you wish your Jitte was a Sword, or your sword a jitte. I think you should run 2 of one or the other. But its just a small in decision.

[Koby]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117417&d=1303185738

Seems like a natural fit into this deck, and the alternative casting cost is marginal for the added benefit on only costing "three" mana. It seems insane cloning Master of Etherium, and doesn't require the blue mana to cast either, giving you more flexability.

Bonus points for cloning Emrakul :D

[Holyste]

Is nexus really so good?

[Mr. Safety]

Attach a Cranial Plating to a Nexus and you tell ME whether or not they are any good...one has the potential to win in one turn, the other in 2 turns...without even having a creature on the board.

[GGoober]

Guys I'll reply to posts later, but right now I'm overly happy with the new spoiled card:

Phyrexian Metamorph


3[PU]
Artifact Creature - Shapeshifter Rare
[PU can be paid with U or 2 life]
You may have Phyrexian Metamorph enter the battlefield as a copy of any artifact or creature on the battlefield, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types
0/0

It solves the bad Show and Tell and Emrakul/Progenitus matchup!!! Now, I only really need to worry about Junk and narrow artifact-hate in SB!! This is amazing!

Don't forget that if you copy their Goyfs/KotR, yours is better because you play Masters/Overseers that pump your new Goyf/KotR. It also copies wurmcoils/Jittes/Aether Vial (lol)/Top (lol), and so much stuff. Makes postboard Tangle Wires a beast, and having 8 Masters and 8 Golems is amazing when copying your own Master/golem. This is an even stronger contribution that Phyrexian Revoker made for this deck.

I'll come back to answer replies later, I'm too busy dancing in the clouds right now!!

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Ho-ho-holy shit. BRB, breaking into WotC's headquarters to steal a playset of Metamorphs.

[GGoober]

You're list is very close to the list i was thinking of running.

Artifact
4 x Chalice of the Void
3 x Cranial Plating
3 x Crucible of Worlds
4 x Etched Champion
4 x Lodestone Golem
4 x Master of Etherium
3 x Mox Diamond
3 x Mox Opal
3 x Phyrexian Revoker
4 x Steel Overseer
2 x Umezawa's Jitte

23Land
3 x Blinkmoth Nexus
4 x City of Traitors
4 x Inkmoth Nexus
4 x Seat of the Synod
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x Wasteland

Was the list that i had thinking. Basically i thought that Jitte was faster than Swords, and opted for 2 of them instead of breaking up for Sword of Fire and Ice. Also you have to consider that we don't have anything to really fetch the sword for us, so splitting them 1/1 seems kind of Meh. What happens if you wish your Jitte was a Sword, or your sword a jitte. I think you should run 2 of one or the other. But its just a small in decision.

The reason I settled with a maindeck 1/1 Jitte/SoFI is due to 2 reasons:
1) In games where neither Jitte/SoFI is needed, SoFI is the superior card i.e. it kills faster
2) In games where Jitte is good e.g. Goblins/Merfolks/Elves/Bob, Jitte is superior, that's where you board the 2nd Jitte from the SB
3) 1/1 split never risk drawing double Jittes or double SoFI. In truth, you probably don't even need Jitte/SoFI maindeck, but they're mainly played to give some flexibility and card slots in the SB.

The decision is actually not a small one. Running 2 Jittes or 2 SoFI or a 1/1 split isn't a small difference. It reflects highly on what your SB plans are and your strategy against an opposing field of deck is. I recommend 1/1 split because it is never bad (no multiples) and I've explained in the 3 situations above, where Jitte is better than SoFI and others where SoFI is better than Jitte, then when you postboard in, you get an optimal configuration. Now, Plating is much stronger than SoFI but I still opted to drop down to 3 Plating + 1 SoFI for good reason. I feel that with 1 SoFI + 2 Tezz, I have 3 ways to draw additional cards, since fitting the 3rd Tezz over the SoFI was a little greedy with the manabase.

@Holyste: Inkmoth Nexus has won me more than 1/3 of all the games I played (well to be fair, Cranial Plating on Inkmoth Nexus did, but it goes to show that Inkmoth is highly relevant since those games won't be closed with Blinkmoth Nexus). 50% or higher of the games won by Inkmoth + Plating involved 1-hit swings. I think time will tell that regular Affinity lists (especially those with Ravagers) will be swapping to Inkmoth Nexus very soon, when they do some testing. Although Affinity kills so fast that Blinkmoth is comparable to Inkmoth when you factor in the other damage coming from earlier sources of other creatures.

@Rukcus, yeah this is a great card for the deck. I think it's much stronger than what Revoker did for the deck before MBS was spoiled. I still LOL at my very first list without Revokers. It's really nice to see how "Spawn More Overseers" has developed into Overseer Stompy and into what we would now classify as a subgenre of a Stompy deck: Steel Stompy. I'm going to be testing 2-3 copies of the card. I doubt it's highly busted to be played as a 4-off, mainly because the card is worthless on its own if you have nothing yourself to copy. But in general, if you're playing against aggro or control, you always have something to copy on their board (creatures, Top, etc).

It's just pretty amazing how this card itself is an artifact, which adds more to the Overseer/Master of Etherium lord plan, both receiving pumps and providing pumps, and how it can assymetrically copy an opposing Goyf/knight and letting you pump them up with your own lords. 3 mana is great at the cost of 2 life. The only caution is not getting 2-1'd by an opposing StP when you try to copy your own Masters/Golems. Don't forget that this guy can copy Golem/Master/Overseer AND Etched Champion. Copying Overseers may seem weak, but there are many games if you resolve double Overseer you just beat any aggro deck in the format not playing Emrakul/Progenitus.

And yes, this guy catches Progenitus too. I'm assuming it wipes Emrakul/Progenitus out because of the legendary rule? he's quite hilarious against Show and Tell now :P

[zflag]

@Metalwalker
Can't get 2 for 1 since it doesn't target like Clone/Sculpting Steel. It's even better :smile:

[GGoober]

DOH! CLONE IS SO WEIRD.

Awesome lol.

[Koby]

This card's even better than Clone, you will undoubtably have an artifact to copy no matter what. If the creature in question somehow disappears, you will still get at worst, a Land, or a Mox.

[Clark Kant]

I really like this deck idea and the new set just leaked.

Porcelain Legionaire, Phyrexian Metamorph and Moltensteel Dragon are all exactly the kick in the pants this deck needed. Metamorph duplicates your Dragons, Wurmcoils and your opponents Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Progenitus and Emrakuls.

Legionnaire is a fantastic two drop due to the first strike.

Moltentail is a solid 4 drop artifact dragon since it flies and you can trade your life to pump it and do the last bit of damage.

Moltensteel Dragon 4PP
Artifact Creature - Dragon
4/4
(P) can be paid with R or 2 life
Flying
P: Moltensteel Dragon gets +1/+0 until end of turn.

Replace the crappier cards with these and this deck is ready to fly.

[GGoober]

That creature will be really hard to cast with Ancient Tombs + PP and it's red lol. Anyway, a post-New-Phyrexia list would look like this:

Lands: 23
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Creatures: 22
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem

Resistors: 5
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void

Broken shit: 5
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Cranial Plating

SB:
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Perish
3 Tangle Wire
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ratchet Bomb (flex slot)

NOTES:
I would love to play 2 Crucibles since Crucible is really strong in the deck, but I think Phyrexian Metamorph is in general much more powerful, also no risk on drawing double crucible hands now. I really like the fact with the current decklist, that aside from lands/moxen/chalice (no deck can avoid this situation actually), drawing multiples of cards in this deck is completely un-dead now. Also the fact that I had to cut down on Manlands now slightly weakens Crucibles.

I really like Porcelain Legionare. A 2P 3/1 first strike with a Stompy manabase is actually quite impressive in Legacy (only weakness is removal). However, I'm not sure if I'm going to be cutting Revokers. Steel Overseer cannot be cut that's for sure. He wins any non-combo matchups right there by himself. A variant of Steel Stompy ith Procelain Legionare could opt with +2 more equipment (preferbly Jitte) and maybe drop down on Tezzeret/Crucibles for better consistency. The current list has 22 creatures, 8 lords, 3 Metamorphs (potentially another 3 lord), so the threat density has definitely increased.

Porcelain Legionare is definitely on my radar. Because the UB Tezz build is a little shakier in terms of consistency, and dropping UB Tezz to go for straight up beatdown maybe better since it's far more consistent. However, UB Tezz build has tremendous advantages that it's hard to shake off for now (Perish in the SB, able to win through Moat/Humility when needed, and winning attrition wars with Tezz's +1).

Would clone/phyrexian metamorph kill legends when copying legendary permanents? i.e. if my opponents show and Tell Progenitus/Emrakul, do I kill it and my own phyrexian metamorph when I put it in play? Or do I get a copy of it? (Here's hoping I don't kill it so I can stompy face!)

[mrjumbo03]

I'm pretty sure it will legend rule those 2 fatties... Keep up the great work on the deck... It's about to get huge love once the new set comes out...

[Koby]

Would clone/phyrexian metamorph kill legends when copying legendary permanents? i.e. if my opponents show and Tell Progenitus/Emrakul, do I kill it and my own phyrexian metamorph when I put it in play? Or do I get a copy of it? (Here's hoping I don't kill it so I can stompy face!)

This card is no different from Clone (http://magiccards.info/m11/en/49.html), except it's got the option of copying artifacts just like Sculpting Steel (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/342.html) too.

[AlterEgo]

Would clone/phyrexian metamorph kill legends when copying legendary permanents? i.e. if my opponents show and Tell Progenitus/Emrakul, do I kill it and my own phyrexian metamorph when I put it in play? Or do I get a copy of it? (Here's hoping I don't kill it so I can stompy face!)

The name of a card as well as its type line is part of its copiable values. Therefore a Clone or Metamorph will always have the same name and supertype(s) of the copied card. So the legend rule will kick both to the 'yard.

BUT, if you put it onto the battlefield with Show and Tell, you can't choose to copy the Emrakul, your opponent puts in with that same SnT, because both enter the battlefield at the same time and what to copy is a choice made immediately BEFORE it enters.

[Koby]

The name of a card as well as its type line is part of its copiable values. Therefore a Clone or Metamorph will always have the same name and supertype(s) of the copied card. So the legend rule will kick both to the 'yard.

BUT, if you put it onto the battlefield with Show and Tell, you can't choose to copy the Emrakul, your opponent puts in with that same SnT, because both enter the battlefield at the same time and what to copy is a choice made immediately BEFORE it enters.

That's not entirely true. There was a ruling from 2004 that states:
"10/4/2004: If the cards being put onto the battlefield also require choices, those choices are made after all players choose their card. The active player makes choices for their card (if any), then the other players (if any) in turn order."

Source: http://magiccards.info/us/en/96.html

[DrHealex]

That's not entirely true. There was a ruling from 2004 that states:
"10/4/2004: If the cards being put onto the battlefield also require choices, those choices are made after all players choose their card. The active player makes choices for their card (if any), then the other players (if any) in turn order."

Source: http://magiccards.info/us/en/96.html

Pretty sure you can't copy it. I am no rules buff. I just go off personal experience rulings... but if i my opponent casts show and tell and they choose emrakul and I choose lignify... i won't be able to enchant it, whereas i would be able to if emrakul was already in play.. seems like the same rule would apply in that situation. come into play abilities work against show and tellers... as it comes into play does not.

[Koby]

Pretty sure you can't copy it. I am no rules buff. I just go off personal experience rulings... but if i my opponent casts show and tell and they choose emrakul and I choose lignify... i won't be able to enchant it, whereas i would be able to if emrakul was already in play.. seems like the same rule would apply in that situation. come into play abilities work against show and tellers... as it comes into play does not.

Also wrong. Lignify would enter the battlefield, then attach as a permanent to a valid target. Note that it no longer considered a spell when it targets now. Casting Lignify must target on announcement; but sneaking it into play gets a different treatment.

"6/15/2010: Emrakul may be affected by colored spells that don't target it or deal damage to it, including those that cause it to become blocked. Abilities of colored permanents (such as Journey to Nowhere) may target it. Auras may be moved onto it by abilities or by colored spells that don't target it (such as Aura Graft)."

[Namida]

You are incorrect. At least, I know this is true about Auras.

"Although the choice of card to put onto the battlefield is made in turn order, all the permanents are put onto the battlefield simultaneously. Since Auras enter the battlefield attached to a legal object or player, the choice of what object or player it enchants has to be made at the instant before it enters the battlefield. At this point, Emrakul is not on the battlefield, so it can't be chosen."

I've asked this question to a judge before, and this is the answer I received. If you choose an Aura for Show and Tell, if that Aura didn't have a legal target in play before Show and Tell resolved, the card stays in your hand. And in this hypothetical scenario where it actually came into play, if you think about it, SBE would be checked after Show and Tell resolved, and it would see an Aura that isn't attached to something--and I don't think there is a rule saying that Auras in play that are attached to nothing get to magically attach themselves to the permanents you want them to.

[AlterEgo]

And this is why one should not quote rulings, but the actual (comprehensive) rules.


On the aura problem:

CR.303.4f
If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects.

The bolded word "as" signals a replacement effect, which is applied BEFORE the aura actuelly enters the battlefield. The following rule 303.4g further specifies this (it states, that an aura without anything to enchant remains where it was).


On the Clone problem:
Copying objects is a pretty long rules section (CR.706) and CR.614.1 states, that Clone's ability indeed creates a replacement effect and how to deal with it. In short I already explained what is happening, and why.

[Koby]

Perhaps I am misinterpreting the rules for specific scenarios with Show and Tell/Hypergenesis. I stand corrected in boths cases - Metalwalker asked the question in a new thread on the Rules forums, so we'll see what cdr thinks.

[Richard Cheese]

I believe the difference is between "as ~ enters the battlefield" and "when ~ enters the battlefield". This is why you can target whatever your opponent puts into play with SnT with Woodfall Primus or O-Ring, but can't target it with a clone or the average Enchant Creature ("aura" can just go to hell)

Anyway, my actual question about this deck is: what is the plan against Null Rod? It's probably going to see a lot more play with more Affinity, MUD, and decks like this showing up, and I don't see any outs against it in Metalwalker's latest list.

[GGoober]

The new UB Tezz build folds to Null Rod I won't lie.

If you want a resistant Rod-deck, the pre Tezz deck (specifically the one I took the SCG and add some tweaks from the new set) will laugh at Null Rods. Before I went UB, Null Rod only shut down Steel Overseer (which I boarded out), Platings and Seat of Synod. Everything else functioned under Rod (this deck is really just big vanilla beaters with some disruptive ability slapped on them e.g. Champion/Master/Revoker/Golem/Phyrexian metamorph).


Lands: 23
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Creatures: 22
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem

Resistors: 6
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void

Broken shit: 4
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Cranial Plating

cards in the non-UB Tezz listturned off by Null Rod:
4 Steel Overseer (board these out)
4 Equipment (I'll keep plating in, at worst it feeds metalcraft, and at best it kills them before they get a chance to respond)
6 Moxens (board down to 3 Opal/2 Diamond, use them on turn 1-2 to power out some dudes, and if they tap out turn 2 for Null Rod, that means you have big creatures and they don't andjust beat them down)

You should fear Pernicious Deed/Serenity/Ancient Grudge much more than you should fear Null Rod. Steel Stompy is much more resilient to Rods than Affinity and Meandeck MUD is, thats a nice benefit. Meandeck MUD usually beats Rod with a strong hand on the play i.e. dump everything before Rod comes online.

[Richard Cheese]

Any plans against Null Rod for your newer UB-Tezz build? It seems more powerful overall, just has that one achilles' heel.

[GGoober]

Sadly, I dont know what an artifact deck can deal with Null Rod except to be built to dodge it :/

If you have any ideas let me know. Ratchet Bombs don't work, Karn Planeswalker is too expensive for this deck.

There's the white splash that offers Oring against Deed/emrakul matchups and Null rod but it is overal weaker than the UB Tezz build, not to mention Rod will shut off your source of white mana as well.

It's just one of those drawbacks on playing an artifact deck. You get some crazy nuts going, but you also die to narrow hate. I would say no-Tezz build could be worth playing against a field of hate, but at that point, I rather not bring this deck to a big tourney. However, in all fairness, if people are seriously just hating out artifacts if they're not that dominating in metagames yet, that's their loss. But if there is just too much hate around, it's not worth playing Meandeck MUD/affinity/Steel Stompy.

And yeah, Tezz 2.0 is really backbreaking when he comes online turn 2 or turn 3.

[GGoober]

Got some testing with Phyrexian Metamorph. The card is pretty hilarious. I played 3 Metamorphs in the list I posted earlier. Here were some hands I drew against an opponent (only listing hands/games where Metamorph is involved)


Game 1:
Copied a turn 2 Master on turn 3 and swung in for 27 damage playing a plating on turn 4.

Game 2:
Turn 1 Chalice off a tomb, Turn 2 City into Lodestone, Turn 3 Metamorph copying Lodestone followed by a Wasteland (hot)
(actual game here was: Chalice got pierced, Lodestone got StP'd, Metamorph copied a topdeck'ed master)

Game 3:
Turn 1 Revoker naming Top, Turn 2 Revoker naming the deed he dropped off double Mox Diamond, Turn 3 Metamorph naming EE. Turn 4 Draw master swing for 12 (+6 more damage from last few turns)

Game 4:
Against Painter, the preboard has some trouble (you need Ratchet Bombs in the SB) but there was a point where I was a turn slower with Metamorph. you can actually copy Grindstone which was really interesting

Other situations:
I could copy opponent's Crucible/Top at some point but I opted for beatdown copying my creatures instead. Copying Top is actually really hilarious. Most of the time, they will want to bounce their top to prevent you from copynig top, but since you have so many other targets with this deck (your master/golem), they'll just let you copy golem/masters instead. Regardless, copying a Top is still quite good because it gives you the card quality that stompy never gets. If your opponents do tap top to draw a card, if you now have a Chalice @1 in your hand that they dodged, you can use that to lock out the top now.

I think a 3-of metamorph in the deck is pretty solid. Upping lord/golem counts, and essentially always having available targets. I am a little worried about hands with just metamorphs and nothing else, but since you're playing stompy, you need to mull those hands. I'm not sure if 2 metamorph and a lone jitte replacing the 3rd metamorph would do better while putting the 3rd metamorph in the SB. My intuition tells me this should be the best configuration but I'll have to get down to more testing.

Only drawback of Metamorph is it's blue, so it's a little more prone to REB, but meh.

[GGoober]

Went 4-0 today (12 men small local tourney)

Match 1: Spiral Tide with Candelabras
Game 1: Turn 1 Revoker naming Candelabra. I was going to name Pernicious Deed because he usually plays Junk but I spotted his Mox Diamond sleeves that he had been testing with Spiral Tide instead of his Mox Opal sleeves where he plays Junk. A turn 2 Master + Golem followed up to quickly seal the game.

Game 2: I kept a hand with Chalice + Lodestone + Champion and he managed to rebuild me, go off to draw 8 cards with 2 Meditates, resolves a Spiral and I pack it up.

Game 3: This game was really close as well. I lead with Chalice and follow up with fast beaters (a 7/7 Master and a 3/3 Champion in play). When I attempt to play Thorn of Amethyst, he rebuilds in response so he doesn't die this turn. Thorn in turn resolves since he only had 3 mana open. I replayed my dudes and got in there barely. He was 1 mana short to win through Thorn.

1-0 (2-1-0)

Match 2: Imperial Painter
Game 1: Was a long dragged out game. He resolved Grindstone and a Painter. I resolved Chalice and Revoker pinned Grindstone. He has no outs now except to draw Jaya. Eventually I get to 6 mana and Chalice@3, shutting my deck down to some extent, but shutting his ways to get out of this situation entirely. He scoops it up since he can't play anymore dudes with Etched Champion blocking and an Inkmoth getting in. NOTE: You can't equip Platings on Champion when Painter is out since Plating is now blue-colored.

Game 2: He leads with Grindstone and follows up with a Painter. I waste his City and he does not draw lands for 7 turns which is enough time for me to beat him down. I stole this game due to his bad luck.

2-0 (4-1-0)

Match 3: NO Bant
Game 1: He mulls to 5. I go first with Revoker naming Pridemage (hand consisted of Jitte which I can drop+equip on turn 2 that I wanted to ride to victorY). He GSZ for Arbor pass turn, and I punished that with Jitte going in and killing the arbor and setting him very far behind.

3-0 (6-1-0)

Game 2: I keep a hand of Chalice + Master + Ancient Tomb + Opal + Perish + Champion. I lead with a Chalice which he resolves (he has the FoW but he said Chalice was irrelevant for that hand and since he also runs Trygon/Pridemages he's good). He drops out Hierarch + Arbor + Warmonk. I play a 6/6 Master which he FoWs leaving him hellbent and putting him in a good position to race. I topdeck Master play it out. He follows out with a Goyf to apply pressure, I draw my 2nd Perish and Perish Hierarch + Arbor + Goyf + RWM. Perish is unfair O_O He wasn't expecting Perish since we haven't tested out the black splash

Match 4: Enchantress
Game 1: Bad matchup pre-board. But I got in there with Revoker needling Sterling Grove, and beating him down fast enough before he can get anti-creature cards out.
Game 2: Close games. I get him down to 1 life, and he locks me out with Moat and Runed Halo naming Blinkmoth. I can still have an out with Tezz but that didn't happen when he drew Sigil. I had Chalice@2 and 3 to lock his card-engines/removal/tutors so we were on par to drawing outs (He needed to draw Sigil/Replenish, I needed to draw Tezz)
Game 3: Tomb -> Revoker naming Sigil, He plays Wild Growth and Mirri's Guile I believe with Chrome Mox. I have the option to go turn 2 Tezzeret but decide to Wasteland his Serra's Sanctum that was probably going to be a Tolarian Academy in Legacy. I made the right choice. He doesn't draw lands and neither could I cast Tezz, but Golems + Thorn get in there.

4-0 (8-2-0)

We split top 4. Tested some games against Junk, matchup is definitely still terrible ~30-70 in Junk's favor. The matchup % for GWx decks are Bant (65-35) > Zoo (55-45) > Junk (30-70)

[mrjumbo03]

Revoker naming Sigil? I'm assuming it's Sigil of the Empty Throne, but that's a triggered ability right?

[GGoober]

I meant Sterling Grove. Mistyped there.

[OuterCrow]

Well done on the result. I currently play Dragon Stompy, but I think I'll give this a shot - looks like a lot of fun. Definitely looking forward to the release of Phyrexian Metamorph, for both decks, although it seems a touch better in this (since we're not running Chrome Mox).

[Beautiful-Decay]

So what list would you use atm? - and what updates have you been doing? (I'm about to buy the rest of the deck so I can help evolve it.)

[GGoober]

Hey thanks guys for the interest!

@outercrow: Steel Stompy plays very differently from Dstompy. It's not about playing turn 1 bombs, for first parts, and it's not about going all-in on powering out huge threats or hell-bent strategy. The explosiveness from Dstompy wins games, but at the same time loses it some. To be fair, the lack of explosiveness from Steel Stompy sometimes loses games (because it feels you are playing a fair deck when compared against Dstomy), but the consistency makes up for it in bigger tournaments where you are not losing to your own bad draws and mulligans. So take that in mind when you playtest Steel Stompy, i.e. you have to sidestep on the Dstompy playstyle/mentality to pilot this deck to better success. If anything, think of Merfolks when you play this deck, that every decision you make is to develop your board fast and slow theirs down, and sneak in the damage and clock accordingly.

@Beautiful-Decay:

The ideal list if you are ignoring artifact hate is currently:

23 lands:
4 Seat of Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Inkmoth Nexus

6 Moxen:
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

21 Creatures:
4 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
2 Phyrexian Metamorph (from New Phyrexia)
4 Lodestone Golem

Bombs: 6
3 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Tezz 2.0

Lockpieces: 5
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds

SB: 15
4 Perish
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Flex slots (Trinisphere/Winter Orb/Tangle Wire etc)

If you need explanations on the configuration/ratio of cards MD/SB, feel free to ask. This is what I would take for a varied metagame.


I've also had some recent thought into just playing a straight MUD with blue splashed for Master (like the older lists). The reason being the list above is prone to artifact hate like Null Rod and Pernicious Deed/Serenity. The fragility is due to the manabase where Rod/Deed/Serenity sets you back way too much. The older lists I played were very much resilient to Null Rods/Deed/Serenity (most resilient to Rods because I only played 5 artifact lands)

I'd be interested to try the no-Tezz build simply for its ability to not fold to narrow-artifact hate cards. It's also a little more consistent when it comes to casting spells because there are situations where you can sit on Master/Perish/Tezz 2.0 in your hand when you're drawing one of the colors that don't matter.


23 lands:
4 Seat of Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

6 Moxen:
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

22 Creatures:
4 Steel Overseer
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
2 Phyrexian Metamorph (from New Phyrexia)
4 Lodestone Golem

Bombs: 4
3 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lockpieces: 6
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds (+1 crucible since manland count is up now)

SB: 15
4 Hibernation (not as good as Perish, but for most parts against GWx decks, you are either winning with big creatures or stalling back with Masters/Champions, and EOT Hibernation allows you to swing for the win. It's a little weaker because there are situations where you can't kill your opponents after an alpha strike, and they rebuild and you're in a stallmate again. It does bounce green permanents, so it has a little more application against Enchantress)
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Flex slots (Trinisphere/Winter Orb/Tangle Wire etc)

[Nihlus]

For the mana base, do you consider cloudpost (+ glimmerpost) too slow?

[OuterCrow]

Thanks for the detailed post Metalwalker, I'll keep that in mind.


For the mana base, do you consider cloudpost (+ glimmerpost) too slow?

Too slow, too fragile - for Legacy anyway. Perhaps if Wasteland was never printed...!

[unicoerner]

Hey guys,
i like this deck a lot. One point i don't get is, why we don't run our 4 chalice, 4 Trinis.
Chalice is better than Trini, i am aware of that, so they get the first 4 slots, but Trini could still work very well in this deck, without any 1 drops

[unicoerner]

Hey guys,
i like this deck a lot. One point i don't get is, why we don't run our 4 chalice, 4 Trinis.
Chalice is better than Trini, i am aware of that, so they get the first 4 slots, but Trini could still work very well in this deck, without any 1 drops

[unicoerner]

I play pretty much Metalworker4s list right now:

23 lands:
4 Seat of Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Inkmoth Nexus

6 Moxen:
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

20 Creatures:
2 Steel Overseer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem

Bombs: 5
1 Cranial Plating
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Tezz 2.0

Lockpieces: 6
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds

SB: 15
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Perish
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Steel Overseer

The only card i am really unhappy with is the Plating. We have just one creature with evasion, which weakens this card a lot.

I am unsure about Nexus, perhaps these could be ghost quarter or rishadan ports.

Could there be a slot for some memnites? They are good with opals and oversser.

[Parax]

Nexus carries the plating prety well also. You can pretty much win on almost one swing with that guy with the infect. VERY potent.

[Beautiful-Decay]

hello Metalwalker.

I've been looking alot on your two lists. So far I don't see why the non-blue deck is more resilient to artifact hate. Please enlightend me :D

[KnightElite]

hello Metalwalker.

I've been looking alot on your two lists. So far I don't see why the non-blue deck is more resilient to artifact hate. Please enlightend me :D

It's because it doesn't run as many artifact lands, so you can actually still have mana after serenity blows your stuff up. Null Rod also doesn't lock your lands down in that version quite as much.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I play pretty much Metalworker4s list right now:

The only card i am really unhappy with is the Plating. We have just one creature with evasion, which weakens this card a lot.

I am unsure about Nexus, perhaps these could be ghost quarter or rishadan ports.

Could there be a slot for some memnites? They are good with opals and oversser.

Plating is probably the best card in the deck as it turns ANY creature into a game-ending threat for very little mana. It is also extremely good with Nexus, which can allow you to one-shot people quite easiliy. Also, Etched Champion + Plating is positively stupid.

Ghost Quarter is fucking awful, please don't mention that card ever again. Rishadan Port, while good, has been tested in this deck and found to be inferior. Memnite is horrible as it does basically nothing (this deck does not play cards with affinity). Ornithopter is better than Memnite if you feel the need to run a 0-mana dude - the issue is what to cut from an extremely tight list.

Seriously, people. READ METALWALKER'S PRIMER. He has already tested most of these cards and answered the majority of these questions.

EDIT: Metalwalker your new primer is BADASS. And it even mentions my name ZoMG!111one!

[GGoober]

@unicoerner: Cutting Plating is fine. I've done that before but I found that the less plating I ran, the harder I could close up games that dragged on a little bit. Don't forget that like any other Stompy deck, the longer your game drags, the more likely you're going to lose since Stompy plays really terrible creatures that are only terrific when they come in fast on turns 1-4. I don't believe that 3-4 Plating should be the religious number but I do believe that for most parts, it's the ideal number in a VARIED metagame. If your meta is primarily Goblins/Merfolks or burn, then Jitte is your best bet. If it's really Merfolk heavy, cutting Plating for Jitte + SoFI is even better than platings. However, for most cases, you want Platings for any meta that is out there (it's terrific against combo/control, and is still insanely good against Gobs/Fish if you slap it on an Inkmoth/Champion). At worst, Plating makes your little Revoker a 10/1 that HAS to be blocked. If you put Plating on a Master, they have to chump it all day while you keep playing more creatures.

@Beautiful-Decay:
First things first, I like to be honest, and if I can at best be humble, this deck folds to artifact hate. The more narrow the hate your opponent is playing, the more likely you're going to get pushed out of a given tournament. I try to avoid comments/statements where I go "Steel Stompy does not die to artifact hate unlike Affinity!!" when clearly it does. That was not my intention so I apologize if I voiced it in that manner.

What I mean to say that if you go the no-Tezz (just 4 Masters as your blue spells), then you gain a lot more resiliency than if you opted for the UB Tezz build, or opted to play Meandeck MUD or opted to play Affinity.

If you refer to my no-Tezz list, the cards that get affected by narrow hate are:

Null Rods: 19
3 Opal
3 Diamond
4 Overseer
4 Seat of Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
3 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jiite

Deed/Serenity/Energy Flux: your entire deck except non-artifact lands

Against Rods, you side out your equipments and 4 Overseer, therefore reducing the cards affected by rods to: 11
3 Opal
3 Diamond
4 Seat
1 Citadel

11 is still a large number, but this is significantly better than what Meandeck MUD/Affinity can ever accomplish against Null Rods. however, those decks have the blessing to go first and dump their hand before Rod comes online but Steel stompy cannot do this as well (although I've many games where I lost to artifact hate game 2 e.g. EE/deed, and I mulled aggressively to a strong opening on game 3 and just won very quickly). However, as long as your manabase survives, every other creature you cast is big beefy and still applies pressure. Also don't forget that your opponents have only 4 Null Rods (if they run 4) and you have 11 cards that get affected (sometimes you can even get 1 mox activation before Rod comes online) so things are not as bad.

Obviously, nothing can be done against Deed/Serenity/Flux. It's the price you pay to play this deck, to play Affinity, to play Meandeck MUD. Aside from Deed, I would classify Serenity and Energy Flux as supremely-narrow hate i.e. if your opponents are playing hate this narrow in a big event, that's probably just bad luck on your part. No competent deck designer will play narrow hate unless the meta was artifact heavy (then don't play this deck) or if they're playing ETutor package, which you are somewhat resilient against because of Chalice + Thorns postboard.

The deck's main weakness is Junk/Team America, in addition to their maindeck discard (hurts way too much), wastelands on sol-lands, and pin-point removal/Vindicates, postboard Deeds just makes it unbearable. Aside from Deed/Junk/TA, your worst enemy is also Ancient Grudge, everything else is fair game (see the point on Null Rod by playing the no-Tezz build, and the point on Flux/Serenity being narrow hate-cards that you shouldn't expect to see unless they're playing Etutors.decs).

EDIT: another terrible matchup is any deck that is playing Artifact decks e.g. Meandeck MUD/Affinity. ForAffinity, Revokers is pretty hilarious against their Ravagers and Platings (Ratchet bombs from the SB and Jittes help too), but Meandeck MUD is a bad matchup unless they mull to oblivion. The reason why artifact decks are weaker matchup is obvious. Look at your Golems and Champions, look at their deck, look back at your Golems and Champions... Aww yeahhh!

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Here's a post-NPH update to my list:

Lands (22):

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Rishadan Port
3 Blinkmoth Nexus

Creatures (22):

4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

Non-Creature Artifacts (16):

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mox Diamond
3 Trinisphere
3 Mox Opal

This is a variant for a combo-heavy meta.

[ThoSha]

Any thoughts about mental misstep yet? I think it would be a fine include.
Chalice might be better on the play, but on the draw a Mental Misstep can save the day.

[Gheizen64]

Trinisphere sucks in legacy, please don't run it. Without mean to consistently cheat it into play T1 (jewelry + shops) it will more often than not be played on T2.5 when your opponent will already have a relevant creature or 2 into play and you'll suck it big time, ex.; vial, merfolks, Nacatl, Goyf, not to talk about Knight of the reliquary and every creature ever that cost 3. CotV is amazing, Trini is bad in this format where spell control isn't as important as creature control.
Currently i'm playtesting Vault Skirge in the deck, his cmc of 2 but effective mana cost of 1 make it good at helping metalcraft and give us another T1 play where more often than not you don't do anything relevant. Also it's an amazing Plating Carrier, making life for aggro downright impossible if they don't remove it. I'm using it in place of the overseer of which i'm not fond of (always played too slow to me).

Mental misstep is good for us in the sense that will replace spell pierces in most lists and that will give a lot of deck 4 card that do absolutely nothing against chalice aggro.

[GGoober]

Any thoughts about mental misstep yet? I think it would be a fine include.
Chalice might be better on the play, but on the draw a Mental Misstep can save the day.

No, this deck does not need Mental Misstep. Granted that a Spell Snare and Thoughtseize opening by an opponent somewhat wrecks this deck, your opening of Chalice wrecks your opponents much more in return. Mental Misstep is a 1 for 1, Chalice is an x for 1, and fits much more into this deck's desire to buy some turns by either turning off your opponent's cards, or allowing you to beat in for 1-2 turns with your creatures unmolested by removal.

The true enemies for Steel Stompy are actually not 1cmc spells, they're cards like Null Rod, Ancient Grudge, Pernicious Deed, Wasteland, Knight of the Reliquary, basic lands, artifact.dec. The worst 1cmc spells that can be played on you are Spell Snare and Thoughtseize if your opponents are on the play, otherwise Steel Stompy is mainly using Chalice to slow an opponent and turn off removal for a few turns.

@Gheizen64: for most parts I'll agree that 3Sphere sucks in a varied meta, which was why I shifted away from playing 3spheres maindeck. In combo-heavy metagames, there's no drawbacks to playing 3spheres maindeck, and if the meta was a little heavier on combo, I'll still play 3sphere sideboard. However, in general, I feel that opening hands overly reliant on 3Sphere can cost you games if they go turn 1 Thoughtseize or Wasteland your Sol-land.

My reason why I don't play 3Sphere in my 75 is because against combo, Thorn + Wasteland + Chalice + Golem (now +3 Metamorph) is good enough for the combo matchups. I want to really focus on my aggro matchups, to which some of them still give me problems. Sadly, 3Sphere is pretty bad against aggro decks of today: Hierarch, Vials, 3cmc Goyfs and 3cmc Knights still seem good.

There are a number of somewhat favorable aggro matchups e.g. Merfolks, Bant, Zoo (sometimes but I need either Chalice/Master/Champion drawn to have a chance). Aggro matchups are the toughest matchups for this deck, and the reason is simple, non-Stompy decks simply play better creatures. We should be thankful that Master of Etherium, Etched Champion are pretty impressive creatures for a Stompy deck. I can't stop mentioning how huge Master is in the deck, and how unsituationally big he is that he gets 1-2 free beats in because an opponent is reluctant to chump it in the early game, and then either you draw more Golems/Master/champion/Plating to seal the game, or somehow they manage to survive Masters.

Darkshineknight's list is actually what I would play in a combo/control heavy meta, which I believe is what he stated. Nothing wrong with that, but if you expect more aggro than combo/control, it's in general much better to just opt for a more aggressive gameplan than try to slow them down (since 3Sphere is only truly effective when you are on the play doing turn 1 3Sphere against aggro, otherwise it becomes a slower and more expensive Sphere of Resistance effect).

[unicoerner]

Vault Skirge could be a decent addition to this deck. We will have another good carrier for plating. Perhaps we can then play 4 platings and 0 jittie.
Perhaps we will have too much lifeloss in the deck then, but Skirge could help out there....
Could Thoughtcast find a place in this deck? I don't think so, but we might atleast consider it...

I will def. test the Skirge

[Admiral_Arzar]

Any thoughts about mental misstep yet? I think it would be a fine include.
Chalice might be better on the play, but on the draw a Mental Misstep can save the day.

ARRGHH!!!!! BRAIN ON FIRE...MM + CHALICE = FAILZOR...

I just realized under your name, it says "Chalice in Wonderland." Dude, awesome. However, that doesn't give you a get-out-of-making-retarded-comments-free-card, unfortunately. So please, if you would, shut the fuck up about Mental Misstep in CHALICE DECKS. *Elvis Impersonation* Thank you very much.

[ThoSha]

ARRGHH!!!!! BRAIN ON FIRE...MM + CHALICE = FAILZOR...

I just realized under your name, it says "Chalice in Wonderland." Dude, awesome. However, that doesn't give you a get-out-of-making-retarded-comments-free-card, unfortunately. So please, if you would, shut the fuck up about Mental Misstep in CHALICE DECKS. *Elvis Impersonation* Thank you very much.
I was refering of MM IN THE PLACE OF CHALICE man! But ok, it was just a suggestion and after testing the deck
i like chalice way better. So calm down and get laid or something, i guess you really need to. Maybe sell a wasteland to pay a whore instead of flaming around. Thank you.

Back to topic.
I placed 2nd today with the above list of the primer in local legacy, except -2 wasteland +1 inkmoth nexus due to card avaibility. I'll give a short report with matchup analysis if anyone cares:

First Match: Show and Tell with Natural Order
Game1: I win dice roll and start with chalice 1. Resolved. After that i dont see any play of him for like 3 rounds,
in which i get out a lodestone golem and an etched champion. He scoops it up.

Out -1 Steel Overseer, -3 Revoker, -2 Crucible, -2 Platings
In +4 Thorn of Amethyst, +4 Perish

Game2:
So he starts with Noble Hierarch and i somehow regret boarding out Revokers. But well, cant have it all.
So i go off with Thorn of Amethyst and pass my turn. He brainstorms for 2 and isnt quite happy about it, then wastelands my city. Ok i go for mox opal and nexus, casting a Jitte. He isnt quite happy with amethyst so he plays Qasali Pridemage. I draw a tomb and head for lodestone golem. I think right there he gripped my jitte and attacked with mage for 4, i take it. Next turn i draw into perish, but decide to save it for later. So i get in for 5 and pass my turn.
Next turn he gets me with qasali again and GSZ for Dryad Arbor. Ok now thats better to perish. Next time i tap my 4 mana and perish, but he forces. I got for another 5. Somehow my life got quite low and i think about blocking qasali, but in the end i decide to take it. 2nd main phase he goes for show and tell, and casts a terastodon, targeting his dryad, a land from me and.... AMETHYST! I start to grin so fucking hard because i have a 2nd perish in hand. He passes his turn and perish wins me the game. Damn his hateful look was so nice. :D <3 Perish.

2-0

Second Match: Mono Red Burn
Ok here i thought this could get complicated, as a burn with a solid curve just wrecks this deck.
Otherwise i thought chalice on the play would give me a huge advantage. So we dice roll and i really get to begin.
Hand is quite solid and i go off with City + Chalice 1 + mox opal. He suspends a rift bolt and passes. Now i draw into my 4th mana source for tezz but decide to wait a little longer, playing etched champion. Rift bolt resolves and he suspends another one. Hm. I go for Master and attack with Champion. He wants to target the master and realizes in the last second that he is already out of burn range. So he targets me, runs out of options and just passes. Ok thats fine, i cast tezzeret and +1 into another chalice. Master and Champion bash in. So its his last turn and he passes with 3 mana open. I topdeck and play chalice for 2. I go off with Artefact Tendrils and win. After the game he showed me his price of progress which would be the bomb against my deck normally. I loled for having both moxes out and only city as a land.

Out -2 Crucible -3 Revoker
In +4 Thorn of Amethyst +1 Winter Orb

Game2: He goes off with Lava Spike. Phew, no goblin guide. So i go with chalice 1 again. He heads for another mountain and passes. I play thorn of amethyst and in response he magma jets or something. Fine. So from now i have total control and anything i would cast would prolly race him. The anything happened to be Tezz again paired with the steel overseer i held and i somewhat overkill him with lots of non creature artefacts on the board.

2-0

Third Match: Merfolk
Sigh, this it where the "fun" really begins. Did i ever mention i hate this matchup?

Game1: I keep a somewhat ok-ish hand and he won dice. So he goes with cursecatcher and i dont really care.
I nothing on turn 1, but on turn 2 an etched champion with 1 mana open for daze. He goes for the carddraw guy.
I play another land and cast a Lodestone Golem. From now on Golem gets in every turn and i leave Etched Champion for blocking. I get him to 5 when i realize that i fucking misplayed as a mutavault hits the table. I was at 8 life, etched champion was my only blocker now and he plays a Lord of Atlantis to support his Rejeray and swings for 9 with his fishes. Ok first game lost today. That blows.

Out -2 crucible -3 cranial plating
In 2 jitte, 3 Ratched bombs

Ok Game2 i go off with chalice for 1 off a city. Resolved. Wow, that feels great. He only plays mutavault and passes. So now i get confident by tapping the city for 2 and put a seat of synod in play for a 3rd mana for Etched Champion. No daze available to him, but still catches a force. So his turn he goes for wasteland and hits my only land. ARGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Brainhurts x1000. I pray to god while topdecking a mox opal. Ok thats better than nothing, i might still get there. So what happens? Exactly, nothing. I dont draw into lands the next 5 turns which is enough for him to evolve his board and beat me down with factory and mutavault. Silly game, really.

0-2

Fourth Match: Countertop Superfriends Control
Now i got excited at how well this deck does against control.
Game1: I start with chalice, he forces. And what do my tired eyes see? Pitch target was Jace lol. So he plays a top and passes. I play mox opal and etched champion next turn. He plays a counterbalance. Ok fine. No other card comes trough his counter madness but the champion still beats him up every turn. So with all the countering he cant find a threat himself and just dies to a champion + another champion who happened to resolve lately.

Out -2 Steel Overseer -5 equip
In 4 thorn of amethyst 3 ratchet bomb

Game2: He begins with Top. I go off with mox opal and seat of synod. 2nd turn he passes. I play my sol land and happen to be dumb enough to cast the thorn of amethyst before the ratchet bomb(i am stupid, i know) leaving me with only that on the table. At least it resolved and next turn he brainstorms for 2. Right here i draw a Tezz and cast the ratchet bomb, resolved. He gets kinda nervous but is amused at how i ping myself all the time. Following turns were like another ratchet bomb, tezz -> force, etched champion, next tezz brainstorm, in respond i nuke a bomb, and in respond he puts his top on top and he doesnt find another counter. So tezz resolves, i +1 into another Chalice again and play it for 0 with my last mana. He draws and passes. I activate Inkmoth Nexus and then go for Tendrils. He doesnt do anything so he takes 16 damage right here. Champion does the rest.

2-0

Tops: Really good synergies and can be tricky with Inkmoth/Chalice. Really, really strong choice in a meta without artefact hate. I really liked Tezzeret and Etched Champion today, they win games alone. Lodestone Golem was a huge bomb too of course.

Flops: Crucible, Steel Overseer. Not like the crucible was bad at all, it was just me failing with 2 wastelands only. And the only game i really needed it i happened to board it out. But whatever.. The Steel Overseer didnt make games actually, he was just win more all the time. But i guess he is the best at what he does for this slot.

After all the deck is really good and viable, i would play it again at a tourney for sure.

[GGoober]

Nice Thosha, and yes the deck is pretty strong when you don't face a ton of narrow hate. After reading your report, I'll comment on things because I feel that you boarded wrong (I don't blame you because it's your first time with the deck and you probably don't know what's right to board in matchups).

@NOShow:
You boarded out: -1 Steel Overseer, -3 Revoker, -2 Crucible, -2 Platings
+4 Thorn, +4 Perish.

I would board out: -4 Overseer, -2 Tezzeret, -1 Jitte, -1 Crucible

Reason: Overseer's main reason he's in the maindeck is for aggro decks. If you're playing combo/big creatures e.g. Reanimator, NoShow, Overseer has almost zero value in the deck. Revoker at the very least shuts down Petal/Hierarch/Birds/ESG (if they ran these). I board out 2 Tezzeret because he doesn't do much in this matchup. He also becomes insanely dificult to cast with Thorns + Golems. I never board out Plating in this matchup, because if they do go Show and Tell, you can easily ride a creature + Plating to victory and force them to block it with Emrakul (killing it), or if Plating is on a Champion, they lose to it. I've won a number of NOShow games this way i.e. I dropped Champion and raced with a Plating. Think of Plating as Goblin Piledriver racing an opposing Progenitus.

@Burn: This matchup is iffy like Zoo. If you draw Chalice, it's like Zoo, they can't win (well it's very hard for them to win). Unlike Zoo, Burn really loses to Chalice. Postboard, you try to go first (if you lost game 1) and ALWAYS mull until you find Chalice or Thorn (or at least a super fast clock in hand). Do not keep bad hands at any costs.

@Merfolk: I think you boarded wrong, so this maybe a factor. Also, Merfolk has to draw above average to beat this deck's average draws. The sad fact is: Merfolk ALWAYS draws above average because all Merfolk players I played with draw really well (and no, it's not the deck that is built to draw well, when I mean they draw well, they have the god-draws all day long). I've tested this matchup enough to know that it's in Steel Stompy's favor given average draws. In fact your god-draw is comparable to theirs.

Anyway, you boarded out -2 Crucible, -3 Cranial Plating. I would keep the Platings against Merfolk. On the draw, I'll board out Chalice of the Void and on the play I would also board out Chalice + Crucible before Plating in this matchup. The reason is, Chalice only stops 1 card that gives you problem i.e. Vial. It's not worth it. If you board out Chalice, you'll have 4 Revokers + 3 Ratchet Bombs to deal with 4 Vial, also if they don't draw Vial, you won't be sitting on a dead Chalice in this matchup. Goblin is however an entirely different story. Your 4 Chalice on the play can shut off 8 cards (Lackey being the only card that gives Goblins a chance against you, and 4 Vial)

Also, the turn where you played Seat into Champion and getting FoW'd and Wastelanded is an example that you need to play the matchup a lot more to know how to play it out. In this scenario, I'll point out that:

1) Losing the City of Traitors on turn 2 to power out a threat that gets FoW'd is very risky. If your hand had more playable 2cmc spells, I usually don't want to sac my City of Traitors if I can avoid it. Especially against Merfolks that plays Wasteland, if you sacced your City on turn 2, their next wasteland will set your manabase 3 turns behind. That is a HUGE tempo loss. In this scenario, I'll be playing out 2cmc spells (the deck has plenty), and bait FoW, when you reach a stable number of lands/moxens, you need to calculate how many turns you'll lose if you sacced the City, if you can follow up with plays after losing your city and factoring Wasteland, go ahead, but otherwise, against Merfolks, you really need to be aware on your hand and manabase.

It's hard to put it in words but you'll figure out what I mean by playing more.


@Overseer: Overseer is in the deck for ONE purpose: To give the deck a chance against aggro. The only aggro matchups where Overseer is terrible is against Zoo, where they have plenty of removal, otherwise Overseer is a trump card against many aggro decks when resolved early. Most opponents don't want to remove him, but find out how bad that ends up. Overseer does something that no other creature does in Legacy. He is a persistent pump that breaks the symmetry of power/toughness in combat phase. Your opponents are for most parts playing static power/toughness creatures (unless it's Goyf/Knight), and every activation from Overseer puts them in an unfavorable position.

I've been recently thinking on cutting Overseers, and opting for Porcelain Legionaire (2{PW} 3/1 First strike. {PW} = phyrexian mana). This has huge potential because 3/1 first strike is going to beat most creatures in the format, and when you slap a Jitte/Plating on, it will start hitting like a truck. However, I have to play test this because if I ran him + Phyrexian Metamorph + Ancient Tomb, that maybe too much life loss.

@Crucible: I only play 1 Crucible now. It's never a dead draw beacuse it makes your Wastelands/Inkmoth/City of Traitors much stronger and weakens your opponent's manabase and Wastelands. I used to play 2 but I found myself boarding them out a little too often because the maindeck had enough hate against decks that lose to Crucible. With 1 Crucible, I never have to worry about drawing the 2nd one.

Keep up the good work, and I'm mostly taking a break from the deck until New Phyrexia is out. Metamorph I've tested a couple of times and it's really really impressive, and thankfully it's much stronger in Steel Stompy than in other artifact/Stompy decks.

[Koby]

I'm keeping an active log through my playtesting.

Click here to view (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0An9giloPs1B4dHVXcmtaeEx6OXhqOVRhTlBkNVdvNkE&hl=en&authkey=CJjll4EN).

I played a couple of matches against Dredge last nite, and found some interesting resutls. Revoker is really good in this matchup, as is Chalice @ 1. Keeping Wasteland + manland is a good way to take out bridges, if you're lucky enough to have that much time.

Anyone have any more ideas how the Dredge matchup would go?

[Admiral_Arzar]

I played a couple of matches against Dredge last nite, and found some interesting resutls. Revoker is really good in this matchup, as is Chalice @ 1. Keeping Wasteland + manland is a good way to take out bridges, if you're lucky enough to have that much time.

Anyone have any more ideas how the Dredge matchup would go?

This deck definitely has the weapons to disrupt Dredge's average draws, you just have to hope they don't get one of their "T1 discard outlet, unzip, thud" openers.

[ThoSha]

Nice Thosha, and yes the deck is pretty strong when you don't face a ton of narrow hate. After reading your report, I'll comment on things because I feel that you boarded wrong (I don't blame you because it's your first time with the deck and you probably don't know what's right to board in matchups).

@NOShow:
You boarded out: -1 Steel Overseer, -3 Revoker, -2 Crucible, -2 Platings
+4 Thorn, +4 Perish.

I would board out: -4 Overseer, -2 Tezzeret, -1 Jitte, -1 Crucible

Reason: Overseer's main reason he's in the maindeck is for aggro decks. If you're playing combo/big creatures e.g. Reanimator, NoShow, Overseer has almost zero value in the deck. Revoker at the very least shuts down Petal/Hierarch/Birds/ESG (if they ran these). I board out 2 Tezzeret because he doesn't do much in this matchup. He also becomes insanely dificult to cast with Thorns + Golems. I never board out Plating in this matchup, because if they do go Show and Tell, you can easily ride a creature + Plating to victory and force them to block it with Emrakul (killing it), or if Plating is on a Champion, they lose to it. I've won a number of NOShow games this way i.e. I dropped Champion and raced with a Plating. Think of Plating as Goblin Piledriver racing an opposing Progenitus.

@Burn: This matchup is iffy like Zoo. If you draw Chalice, it's like Zoo, they can't win (well it's very hard for them to win). Unlike Zoo, Burn really loses to Chalice. Postboard, you try to go first (if you lost game 1) and ALWAYS mull until you find Chalice or Thorn (or at least a super fast clock in hand). Do not keep bad hands at any costs.

@Merfolk: I think you boarded wrong, so this maybe a factor. Also, Merfolk has to draw above average to beat this deck's average draws. The sad fact is: Merfolk ALWAYS draws above average because all Merfolk players I played with draw really well (and no, it's not the deck that is built to draw well, when I mean they draw well, they have the god-draws all day long). I've tested this matchup enough to know that it's in Steel Stompy's favor given average draws. In fact your god-draw is comparable to theirs.

Anyway, you boarded out -2 Crucible, -3 Cranial Plating. I would keep the Platings against Merfolk. On the draw, I'll board out Chalice of the Void and on the play I would also board out Chalice + Crucible before Plating in this matchup. The reason is, Chalice only stops 1 card that gives you problem i.e. Vial. It's not worth it. If you board out Chalice, you'll have 4 Revokers + 3 Ratchet Bombs to deal with 4 Vial, also if they don't draw Vial, you won't be sitting on a dead Chalice in this matchup. Goblin is however an entirely different story. Your 4 Chalice on the play can shut off 8 cards (Lackey being the only card that gives Goblins a chance against you, and 4 Vial)

Also, the turn where you played Seat into Champion and getting FoW'd and Wastelanded is an example that you need to play the matchup a lot more to know how to play it out. In this scenario, I'll point out that:

1) Losing the City of Traitors on turn 2 to power out a threat that gets FoW'd is very risky. If your hand had more playable 2cmc spells, I usually don't want to sac my City of Traitors if I can avoid it. Especially against Merfolks that plays Wasteland, if you sacced your City on turn 2, their next wasteland will set your manabase 3 turns behind. That is a HUGE tempo loss. In this scenario, I'll be playing out 2cmc spells (the deck has plenty), and bait FoW, when you reach a stable number of lands/moxens, you need to calculate how many turns you'll lose if you sacced the City, if you can follow up with plays after losing your city and factoring Wasteland, go ahead, but otherwise, against Merfolks, you really need to be aware on your hand and manabase.

It's hard to put it in words but you'll figure out what I mean by playing more.


@Overseer: Overseer is in the deck for ONE purpose: To give the deck a chance against aggro. The only aggro matchups where Overseer is terrible is against Zoo, where they have plenty of removal, otherwise Overseer is a trump card against many aggro decks when resolved early. Most opponents don't want to remove him, but find out how bad that ends up. Overseer does something that no other creature does in Legacy. He is a persistent pump that breaks the symmetry of power/toughness in combat phase. Your opponents are for most parts playing static power/toughness creatures (unless it's Goyf/Knight), and every activation from Overseer puts them in an unfavorable position.

I've been recently thinking on cutting Overseers, and opting for Porcelain Legionaire (2{PW} 3/1 First strike. {PW} = phyrexian mana). This has huge potential because 3/1 first strike is going to beat most creatures in the format, and when you slap a Jitte/Plating on, it will start hitting like a truck. However, I have to play test this because if I ran him + Phyrexian Metamorph + Ancient Tomb, that maybe too much life loss.

@Crucible: I only play 1 Crucible now. It's never a dead draw beacuse it makes your Wastelands/Inkmoth/City of Traitors much stronger and weakens your opponent's manabase and Wastelands. I used to play 2 but I found myself boarding them out a little too often because the maindeck had enough hate against decks that lose to Crucible. With 1 Crucible, I never have to worry about drawing the 2nd one.

Keep up the good work, and I'm mostly taking a break from the deck until New Phyrexia is out. Metamorph I've tested a couple of times and it's really really impressive, and thankfully it's much stronger in Steel Stompy than in other artifact/Stompy decks.

Yeah thanks for your feedback, i really appreciate it.
Of course you are right that it needs a certain skill and experience already when it comes to boarding.
I felt like the boarding choices i made were alright at least with crucible, but i admit i failed terribly on merfolk.
In fact he started to play actual merfolks on turn 3 which had been A LOT of time to feed him with 2CC drops i had in my hand. Playing risky is not the way with Steel Stompy i guess, its much more Dragon Stompy's way.
About the Steel Overseer, he was kind of useless because i didnt face any aggro deck at all..
Maybe porcelain is the better choice in my meta, i will test it for sure. Seems lethal with equipment.
I dont think that life matters too much here, as we are some kind of "Suicide Art" already and it fits our playstyle, saccing life for superior board position anytime.

About crucible i actually do want it all the time, as we are really vulnerable to an early wasteland.
I did misplay on that, but how many games have you lost to wasteland already? I bet it could have been the reason this deck could possibly lose in the first place. Beside the fact that we fold to artefact hate, our manabase seems like the biggest weakness. =(

[GGoober]

I've only played 6 games total against Dredge. All games I don't play hate like Cryps/Relics. And without GY hate, I still pull out 50/50 wins postboard. Here are my comments:

Cards you need in Steel Stompy that 'beat' (parenthesis because it doesn't beat it like GY hate does, but it slows it down enough to make DDD-style Dredge look bad):
- Chalice@1: If you're on the play, this shuts off their discard outlets forcing them to go DDD i.e. super slow
- Thorn of Amethyst: This definitely comes in since it has the same function as Chalice. It's weaker against PImps and Tribes, but with 4 Thorns + 4 Golems + 4 Wasteland, you slow down the speedbumbs of Therapies/Breakthroughs/Dread Return. Matchups that I beat dredge involved Golems locking him out of spells. Him getting a couple of 2/2s a turn isn't too impressive
- Jitte: Stop moebas and Ichorids somewhat. You don't want to let them benefit from the advantage with moebas/Ichorid. More importantly, this also pings off your own dudes.
- Revokers: This is not too useful because a good dredge player will dump his hand in response to revoker. They still have 8 creature discard outlets v.s. 4 Revokers so you might miss sometimes.
- Wastelands: just too good. Fizzles their bridges, but locks them under Thorn/Golem and forces them to go very slow.
- Ratchet Bombs: I play 3 because it stops the speedbump they get on turn 1-2. Sometimes where you can't slow them down enough, Bombs are there to give you an out to their fast hands.

Cards that own you:
- Ancient Grudge (this hurts very very bad)
- Nature's Claim (not really if you get Chalice/Thorn out)

Personally the Dredge matchup I tested aren't too representative, because the pilot of the dredge deck is a little renowned for looking at his opponent's deck and trying to land-screw you. And Im not ashamed to post it here, because I feel that people with intentions of cheating should feel bad about themselves, especially when you're kinda old and have a job. Oh well, this is the internet after all.

Nice log Rukcus, inspiring me to get some logs myself. Btw guys, I'm getting some spreadsheets up soon: % statistics for basic scenarios, Doomsday piles (filterable and interactive), and hopefully eventually some spreadsheets on matchups :P

[GGoober]

Beside the fact that we fold to artefact hate, our manabase seems like the biggest weakness. =(

There you listed out yourself on when people should and should not play this deck :)

Also, manabases is the real reason why Stompy isn't as good as it can be. If there's another Sol-land that is better than Crystal Vein (i.e. a sol-land with any drawback except somehow saccing itself or coming into play tapped), Stompy can be much more consistent. This is the real reason why Stompy struggles hard, because it depends on 8 cards in its 60/61 to power out optimal plays, where everyone else in the format is depending on 17-23 lands in their 60/61 to power out optimal plays. However, Steel Stompy is as best as you can get with a consistent manabase without playing card disadvatnage cards like CHrome Mox and Spirit Guides/Lotus Petal.

[ThoSha]

There you listed out yourself on when people should and should not play this deck :)

Also, manabases is the real reason why Stompy isn't as good as it can be. If there's another Sol-land that is better than Crystal Vein (i.e. a sol-land with any drawback except somehow saccing itself or coming into play tapped), Stompy can be much more consistent. This is the real reason why Stompy struggles hard, because it depends on 8 cards in its 60/61 to power out optimal plays, where everyone else in the format is depending on 17-23 lands in their 60/61 to power out optimal plays. However, Steel Stompy is as best as you can get with a consistent manabase without playing card disadvatnage cards like CHrome Mox and Spirit Guides/Lotus Petal.

I agree on that.
Steel Stompy just suffers from regular stompy inconsistency AND nonbasic hate as we run artifact lands too.
But that weakness seems so be fair since we dont have card disadvantage as you say.
This stompy build is by far the best i have played until now and it gets even better with NPH.
I feel DS gets the closest from all stompies at being competitive after that, but lets see.

[GGoober]

I personally think the best stompy deck is Faerie Stompy (underplayed for some reason).

The only reason that is holding Faerie Stompy back is a lack of discussion and re-examination of the deck, and the huge card disadvantage with FoW and Chrome Mox. I feel that when Faerie Stompy takes an approach towards more blue-colored artifacts supporting FoW and shifting Chrome Mox to Mox Opal, it could get significantly stronger, after all Master of Etherium is one of the best creatures in the 'stompy' archetype, being 3cmc and having a huge ass body matters. Another big problem that Faerie Stompy has besides Chrome Mox (this sucks worst in FStompy) is the lack of big beaters. Efreets and Drakes are really solid, but when you compare against them to Master and Lodestone, they really seem weak for what they cost. I think that Phyrexian Metamorph could revive FStompy, but that involves them looking into the Chrome Mox issue all over again. One of the strength of Steel Stompy is to be able to play with a Mox accelerant (Opal) without bitching about the color/artifact count that other stompy players get since they have to balance non-artifact colored spells with artifact spells.

If I ever get any development done with Faerie Stompy, I'll be interested to bring it up. I've thought about mish-mashing Steel Stompy and Faerie Stompy, but the mix is Deep Blue, which is worse than either deck. However, I think Deep Blue could use some discussion after Mox Opal has been spoiled. The thread has been dead since then. However every time I work on Deep Blue variants, I prefer the route that Steel Stompy took, i.e. just straightforward aggressiveness (you don't get to play FoW but you just try to win faster).

Porcelain Legionare might be a good replacement for Overseer. I haven't tested him out, but from enough testing, Overseer is mainly there for aggro matchups, and I am starting to think if that's the reason for playing Overseers, than Porcelain Legionare might be included. However, I think cutting Overseer is still wrong in the deck, so it's probably some other slots that will be cut to fit a total of 22-23 creatures maindeck and play much more aggressively. I have some thoughts but will work it out eventually if I get to test it.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I personally think the best stompy deck is Faerie Stompy (underplayed for some reason).

If I ever get any development done with Faerie Stompy, I'll be interested to bring it up. I've thought about mish-mashing Steel Stompy and Faerie Stompy, but the mix is Deep Blue, which is worse than either deck. However, I think Deep Blue could use some discussion after Mox Opal has been spoiled. The thread has been dead since then. However every time I work on Deep Blue variants, I prefer the route that Steel Stompy took, i.e. just straightforward aggressiveness (you don't get to play FoW but you just try to win faster).


Faerie Stompy has always been underplayed. I would be interested in reviving it at some point, it's a fun archetype but suffers from a number of big weaknesses as you enumerated. I think the deck got a lot better with the printing of big Jace, there just hasn't been an real development other than me randomly playing a list with Jaces like once. Most of the content in the FS thread here is just awful anyways, so we'd probably need to start from scratch. MOAR artifacts is probably the way to go though (Esperzoa + Master lulz). Another part of the issue is that Sea Drake and Serendib Efreet, while good, just don't measure up well to modern beaters (Knight of the Reliquary lol).


I agree on that.
I feel DS gets the closest from all stompies at being competitive after that, but lets see.

The issue with DS is the same as it always has been. Without a radical restructuring of the deck and its priorities (at the expense of power, typically) it is stilll extremely inconsistent, has a lot of inherent card disadvantage, and lacks card advantage other than the virtual advantage generated if your lock pieces are doing their job. The new stuff in NPH doesn't really do anything to fix these core issues, although the deck certainly has more tools to play with I don't know if it will be enough.

[ThoSha]

The main reason Steel Stompy is better than Dragon Stompy is the remaining position of an early resolved Champion.
Against control losing Chalice 1 to hate pratically means you lose the game, as your only threat on the board is only one StP away from getting handled, which your opponent probably held since turn 1. So.. if DS would play Defender of Chaos it would solve the Problem with white removal, but not nearly as good as Etchet Champion wrecks target removal. So most likely DS will lose to Maelstrom Pulse then. In any particular situation the Champion is just BETTER as any creature DS runs. I tried to include him to DS but people were not fond of it, and I myself find him way better in SS.

Can't speak about a new version of Faerie Stompy though. It might have potential with Jace, but the lack of good beaters in modern legacy just sucks.. And Force is no excuse to play blue in this case. Still i would like to see a new version that comes close at being
competitive again.

[unicoerner]

That's my actual List:
Lands
3 [HOP] Vault of Whispers
4 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
3 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MPR] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
3 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
4 [SOM] Etched Champion
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
3 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [NPH] Vault Skirge

// Spells
3 [SOM] Mox Opal
2 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [HOP] Cranial Plating
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [M11] Steel Overseer
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb

I like Skirge as a "one" drop, because he can help our starting hands when we just have City+1 other land.
Skirge is an awesome carrier for plating, which is the reason i maxxed them both.
Skirge has a very good synergy with Overseer aswell.

I am not sure about the 1 Crucible in the main so far.

If i face early Bobs i am losing pretty much every time. Any ideas to solve this?

[Koby]

I actually like the idea of Skirge in here. Its a card that can be played for "one" mana, while not being countered by cotV @1, which is important. That being said, it doesn't really feel like it fits, as it has no utility aside from beating face and racing. I'll run some tests when the set comes to MTGO (boooo end of May boooooo) and I'll report how it plays out.

RE: Faerie Stompy meets 5/3 aka Deep Blue
I've had a lot of fun piloting a list that includes Etherium Sculptor as a way to accelerate out the 3 & 4 drops. However, the added blue mana cost is often times a hinderance. I'll put together my old list and run a few games using the newer cards (Oracle, Revoker) and report back. I love being able to cast Plating for one mana off Sculptor. I think in this version Tezzeret does not belong, due to his restrictive mana cost. The Deep Blue list does run Thoughtcast however, as the deck tends to empty its hand far too easily. Speaking of which, are there ways to offset this?

EDIT: Found my last posted list:

(12/28/10)
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod

3 Voltaic Key (bomb! may want 4)
4 Mox Opal
4 Grim Monolith

3 Vedalken Archmage (test slot, difficult to cast)
4 Etherium Sculptor
3 Etched Champion
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium

4 Pithing Needle (disruption, very iffy)
3 Cranial Plating
3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Thoughtcast

Sideboard
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Myr Battlesphere
4 Relic of Progenitus

Now obv this deck isn't refined looking back. Revoker can replace Needle (adding more bodies), Voltaic Key and Monolith can probably be cut altogether in place for 1 more plating and 1 of either Jitte or SoFI. Metamorph gets the auto include as 2-3 of as well. Top is kind of weak, but combos wellwith Sculptor and offers mid-game filtering. Lodestone probably needs to be added for more disruptiong, and CotV is somehow altogether missing. Like I stated, unrefined. But it's a good look back and maybe some new ideas on how to move forward.

[Admiral_Arzar]

If I were to build Faerie Stompy right now, I think I would start with something like this. This is just a brainstorm, and is definitely not optimized, and probably not good either.

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Esperzoa
4 Master of Etherium
4 Trinket Mage
4 Phyrexian Metamorph/Sea Drake/Serendib Efreet

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Opal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle/Sigil of Distinction

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
6 Island
2 Darksteel Citadel

The issue is, once we start running a bunch of artifacts, we may as well go all the way and play Steel Stompy, which is probably better anyways. Fast Esperzoas + Equipment are pretty good though.

[Koby]

EDIT: Reading is tech. Missed Trinket Mage.

I do like that FoW is enabled again thanks to all the blue artifacts. But Chrome Mox is a little suspect with FoW already being in the deck.

[Admiral_Arzar]

LOL forgot how many colored cards I was cutting. That would require more lands, which would require us to play...Steel Stompy. lol.

[GGoober]

The idea I had (I've been having this idea since Metamorph was spoiled but the biggest reason I was going against it is I feel that FoW is in fact a weak card in Steel Stompy because you already have great matchups against combo/control and 4 FoW is not going to change the bad matchup against Junk i.e. FoW does not beat their initial discard of Thoughtseize/Hymn since you're helping them achieve that).

I most definitely would not be playing Chrome Mox in Deep Blue or a Faerie Stompy + Steel Stompy bastard child. You'll lose too many cards to Chromes and FoWs and running too many artifact is creates awkward situations where you want to tear your chrome moxes.

Here's the list that I was brewing a few weeks back but scrapped it because I felt Steel Stompy was just straightforward and more consistent.

Lands: 23
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Darksteel Citadel
5 Island
4 Wasteland

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond

Creatures: 20
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Esperzoa
4 Master of Etherium
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Etched Champion
3 Lodestone Golem

Permission/locks: 8
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will

Bombs: 4
2 Jace the Mindsculptor
2 Umezawa's Jitte

The basis of the list is preserving the configuration of 23 lands (4 wastelands) + 3/3 Diamond/Opal, the configuration that I've tested to be best with. There's 17 blue cards to pitch to FoW, and since you don't have manlands or 4 Champions, Jitte replaces Platings. The only advice I have against this list if you want to test it is:

If you feel like you're winning games with this list, stand back and not lie to yourself that this list is superior or awesome. Playtesting often clogs you up with emotions that tend you to think that this is the best configuration. Why I'm saying this is: This list has more bomby cards than Steel Stompy e.g. FoW/Jace. Resolving these in games may create the false impression that the list is successful when it has a number of flaws e.g.

a) Much lower 2cmc spells compared to Steel Stompy. This ultimately affects your amount of turn 1 playable spells. This in turn ultimately affects the metalcraft on Opal/Champion on turn 2, which affects the entire deck. For those who have played enough Steel Stompy, you'll know that the Turn 1 2 cmc spell, Turn 2 Metalcraft is based entirely on having a play out on turn 1. Therefore, the bastardization of Faerie sTompy with artifacts is quite challenging and presents a lot of consistency issues if you're trying to port Champions/Opals over. In general, Champions/Opals will be much weaker than in Steel stompy for very simple consistency reasons.

b) FoW is always awesome in decks that can support them. This list can support FoW, but the true question is, does an archetype like stompy really need FoW? Faerie Stompy barely squeezes in FoW, and I would say for most parts that FoW does something critical (well that's what FoW does), but in the Stompy archetype where you are primarily spending a lot of card disadvantage (Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond) to power out threats, FoW sometimes backfires when you find yourself having no more hand/threats on turn 2-3 and proceed to lose. I would say that for most parts, Stompy archetype does not need FoW. It is tremendously costly to support FoW in an archetype that is losing its hand way too quick, and it is also hard to support FoW on the blue count. Faerie Stompy is lucky enough that enough great blue creatures exist, but the port to Steel Stompy is a little tricky. You can still support it but cards like Esperzoa, taking the slots of Champions for the sole purpose of supporting FoW, may eventually be a much weaker inclusion.

c) Just really challenging to balance everything: Metalcraft, artifact count, blue count, cmc ratios. Take e.g. Esperzoa. He's a good beater, nice synergy with Opals, but overall still quite a situational card when his upkeep cost turns into a drawback i.e. bouncing Seats/Chalice/other good artifacts i.e. tempo loss. In theory, you would want to play 4 Platings in a build with Champion + Esperzoa, but then you also want to maintain high blue count, so in the end you have to sacrifice something. In the above list, I choose to sacrifice Champions 3-4 and 3-4 Platings for higher blue count for FoW. Is it worth it in the end? Probably not because if I simply ignored FoW and played with Champions + 4 Platings, I would have won a lot more games where my Esperzoas were killing too slowly or dieing to removal.

I'm definitely not against the idea of Deep Blue/Steel Stompy/Faerie Stompy, but I find that it is very hard to balance the requirements of the deck, and in all honesty, I rather not have FoW at all when playing Stompy (you beat control/combo, well Steel Stompy has a much better matchup against control than other Stompy variants because it does not play on card-disadvantage cards). I've had the thought in the back of my head, but always just returned to Steel stompy because everything fits nicely without too much sacrifice.

Last comment: I feel that the UB Tezz build is overall more powerful, but I would be for most parts playing just the blue version. This gives increased stability against artifact hate, and also better consistency without the black color. Hibernation could well replace the Perish slot, and would fulfill similar functions (as long as you are clocking your opponents so that EOT Hibernation is just as powerful as a Perish when you swing for the win).

@Vault Skirge is a very interesting card. Comparable with Porcelain Legionaire (2{PW} 3/1 First Strike). I am in favor of the Porcelain Legionaire over the Skirge because without secondary cards, he beats faster and with a Jitte, is almost unkillable. He is also a good blocker against Zoo when they don't draw removal where Skirge can only focus on attacking (and does a weak job unless it gets some pumps). The lifelink would matter, and I will get to testing both Skirge and Legionaire when I have time.


If I were to build Faerie Stompy right now, I think I would start with something like this. This is just a brainstorm, and is definitely not optimized, and probably not good either.

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Esperzoa
4 Master of Etherium
4 Trinket Mage
4 Phyrexian Metamorph/Sea Drake/Serendib Efreet

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Opal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle/Sigil of Distinction

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
6 Island
2 Darksteel Citadel

The issue is, once we start running a bunch of artifacts, we may as well go all the way and play Steel Stompy, which is probably better anyways. Fast Esperzoas + Equipment are pretty good though.


Thanks for the suggestion, keep them coming, because New Phyrexia is bringing a lot of tools for the archetype, but more importantly I want to stress everyone to remember that, it's not testing new cards that changes the deck, but rather testing how these new cards interact with the entire deck (affecting ratio of cards played, overalll cmc requirements etc, improved clock/defense) that eventually find changes made to the maindeck. This is always a good reminder to testing new cards for ANY deck, because cards only do so much by themselves, it's the interaction and connections with the deck that truly makes the card do what it does to win games (e.g. read my section in the primer on how Chalice has an entirely different function in this deck than say something in MUD Prison. In fact, Chalice has more of a tempo importance in this deck than in Dragonstompy because DStompy cares about tempo, but also they care a lot more about their threats being removed where Steel Stompy can afford some threats removed i.e. Steel Stompy does not lose games as bad as Dragonstompy does when it doesn't lead with Chalice. Hope you get my drift).

[GGoober]

@unicorner on bob: Yeah Steel STompy just loses to bob (another reason why I've lost a ton of games to Junk is because I can't deal with a resolved Bob outside on drawing 1-2 Jittes in the deck). Sideboard you want more Jittes/SoFI if you pack any.

[JaredDS]

Just threw this list together for some testing. Planning to play some version of Steel Stompy at the GP in Providence in a couple weeks. Got in 11 games last night and went 7-1 vs Merfolk and 3-0 vs Junk. Deck is still very rough and I think I may be missing out by not running more equips. I kind of agree that FoW may not be good but going to test it more before I replace it, probably with more beaters. Even if I play Steel Stompy I think I'd want more planeswalkers then in most of the lists on here. They have been amazing and cover the huge weakness of the deck which is you play out your hand and then cannot refill. Phyrexian metamorph has been an absolute beast, probably the best card in the deck, I would not run less than 4 no matter what version I ended up playing. Porcelin Legionaire has been great. I was running 3 but think the deck needs 4. He puts on a fast clock and really improves the creature matchups. I've also found with the mana base that midgame you can hardcast FoW so its not always a 2 for 1.

4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Underground Sea

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Jitte
3 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Force of Will
3 Tezzeret Agent of Bolas
2 Big daddy Jace

4 Master of Etherium
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Porcelain Legionnaire
3 Etched Champion

Board:
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Perish
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tanglewire
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Crucible of Worlds

Anyways again this is very rough and FoW may be a bad call. But I really think everyone should consider running Jace+Tezzeret side by side. There were a # of games that I won just by dumping one of them on the table turn 2-3, and given the threat density of the deck they are easy to protect and generally win you the game once they are resolved and unmolested for a turn or 2.

I really do not like Vault Skirge or running too many equipments. Yes they do provide explosive draws but they also weaken your threat density by letting your opponent just answer your creatures. I do not like running a ton of cranial platings but could see adding a couple. Again this may be a mistake I have no done a ton of testing. I'm interested in testing the following cards as well:
1) Dismember: nice to have just a good basic removal spell that kills almost every creature in the format. Maybe only a board card but could really shore up some of the creature matchups
2) Thoughtcast: More draw is always nice and I like it when run in combination with the planeswalkers just b/c it gives you a lot of ways to refill your hand.

Thoughts on this build?

[GGoober]

Nice list JaredDS. I've tried a no manlands approach (playing exactly the manabase you're using) with 3 Tezzeret in the deck and have liked it somewhat. I went back to testing the stock list that I'm testing with mainly because I've done more testing with the older lists and want to polish it up. I did like the no manlands approach with 3 Tezzeret and I think it maybe nostalgia with winning over 1/3 of games with Inkmoth that I'm refusing to abandon it.

In all honesty, I think your list is a good stepping stone for a potential change and success with Steel Stompy. With regards to your list, I would actually cut:

-2 Jace (he is in every way weaker than Tezzeret in this deck, he wins way too slow, brainstorming sucks v.s. Peer Through Depths)
-1 SoFI
+3 Cranial Plating

I can promise you with Platings, you will win games much faster than playing with 2 Jace. Don't forget that sometimes winning the game fast is better than playing broken cards, and Plating IMO is one of the most broken cards in the deck (sometimes you are digging with Tezz for a Plating).

I am currently testing Porcelain Legionaire v.s. Vault Skirge. I like Legionaire for what he does in Legacy (3/1 first strike is very impressive on turn 1-2 on the offense/defense and if you slap a Plating/Jitte, it's nightmare for aggro decks) but I think Vault Skirge is overall more powerful for helping the deck (lifegain = some tempo while you evasively race your opponents). Vault Skirge is a little weak without equipments so in the list playing Skirge, I will definitely playing up to 4 Platings again.

I'll post my list sometime this week. I'm a little torn between the UB Tezz and mono-blue build. I think your list giving up Inkmoth is a good reference point for a UB build because it greatly inreases the castability of Tezz. I like the mono-blue build for now because my meta is starting to pack Rebuilds/Hurkyl's Recall and other hate on top of Deeds, and it is close to impossible for the UB build to recover when they hit your moxes/lands.

[JaredDS]

I will give your changes a shot. I'm interested in what you think of cutting/moving to the board the phyrexian revokers. I have felt they are the worst slot in the deck since they are not always a good turn 1 play but you want to have enough good 2 drops to be good turn 1 plays. They do provide a good game vs vial decks but goblins should be dropping even more in popularity with MM being printed. I think merfolk is a good matchup with or without revoker and I would think vault skirge would be better in these matchups since they have few flyers and an equip on him would be devastating my main issue with him is like revoker he just doesnt do much on his own. One of the things I liked about my build of the deck is each card you play is a threat that they much deal with and counter, vault skirge would be a card they can just ignore, compared to something like porcelain legionaire which opposing creature decks often must deal with since he creates a fast clock.

I agree that Jace TMS is straight up worst then Tezzeret, what are your thoughts on just 4 Tezzeret?

I think Force-->Lodestone Golem is a fine change. Force has been great sometimes and dead other times. I think you have a better combo matchup with it and worse other matchups. Testing has shown junk to be 50/50 with the matchup mainly revolving around whether they stick a dark confidant. I'd like dismember/dispatch some kind of simple removal somewhere in the main/side just because I think having it will improve all your creature matchups.

[GGoober]

@Revokers: I tried moving them to the sideboard because sometimes drawing them against irrelevant matchups suck for a 2/1 body. But in most cases, Revokers have accomplished what this deck seeks to do (read the OP primer) i.e. disrupt and buy time while being a threat. A 2/1 Threat isn't huge, but against Vial, Hierarch, Top, you can almost always sneak in 1-2 free hits. If they trade with your Revoker with a Pridemage/Lord of Atlantis etc, then you have gotten a few hits and traded your weakest card in your deck for some of the cards that are good in their deck. If they get something like a Goyf online, then Revokers suck but as long as it's naming something that disrupts, they will have to do something to him i.e. one less removal for your bigger dudes.

@Legionaire v.s. Skirge. Both have their pros but I have to do more testing:
Legionaire Pro:
1) Unequipped: 3/1 first strike infinitely beats 1/1 flying lifelink.
2) Lord pumps: 4/2 first strike infinitely beats 2/2 flying lifelink.
3) Great on the defense while Skirge is terrible on the defense. This is a very relevant point because for the same reason Goyf is a good 'tempo' creature, so is Legionaire i.e. you play Goyf/Legionaire, they can't swing in because Goyf/Legionaire kills attackers, then next turn you swing in they can't block i.e. you get half a turn slowing your opponents down and gained half a turn with one attack.
4) Super Jitte carrier (not a super Plating carrier but definitely an insanely strong Jitte carrier)

Skirge Pro:
1) 1/1 Lifelink is weak but if you pair it up with Plating, this is much stronger than Legionaire since your opponents do not have the option to block
2) Lifelink matters somewhat in this deck
3) Much easier to cast (this is the biggest reason). Allows you to keep non Sol-land hands, non moxen-hands although I recommend mulling these hands in the first place. Porcelain Legionaire reads: :2: pay 2 life for a 3/1 First strike (since we don't have white sources outside of Moxens).

@4 Tezz: Yes, you should opt for 4 Tezz over the 1-2 Jace in your UB build. Refer to Tezz Affinity for a good reference point, and I honestly think Tezz is better in this deck because you can power him out 1-2 turns faster with Sol-lands.

@FoW/Golem: I prefer Golem. As I mentioned, playing FoW in Stompy decks is like playing MM in Zoo/Goblins (you'll see my opinions on MM in Zoo/Goblins from this post). FoW is a great card, and MM is a great card. FoW and MM could be great in Stompy as MM could be great in Zoo/Goblins. But the thing is, what is Steel Stompy or in general Stompy truly afraid of? For Steel Stompy, it's really just artifact hate, Bob, Jitte and Deed. For Zoo, it's really just Dark Ritual->Tendrils. Does FoW fit naturally into the Stompy shell? No because Stompy is a deck functioning on card disadvantage (chrome mox, mox diamond, spending multiple mana sources to power out 1 overcosted threat). Does MM fit naturally into Zoo/Goblin? No because it does not kill an opponent nor is it a Goblin. MM and FoW analogy here are similar. People are open to disagree, but I want to emphasize that playing cards for what they're worth doesn't do 100% for the deck. For example, Trinisphere, Metalworker are powerful cards for Steel Stompy, but really doesn't accomplish anything the deck needs, so for the same reason, FoW in Steel Stompy really only just tries to stop turn 1 Thoughtseize, Bob, Pernicious Deed. Compare to a card like Golem, which is only dead when you play against Affinity/MUD/Steel Stompy, while being assymetrically unfair to your opponents, and having both an additive disruption ability with the rest of the deck, and being a huge 5/3 body that grows with lords/equipments etc. I hope you get the drift :) I mean most of the time when I'm casting Golems early, I feel like a dirty cheaty, especially when my opponents agree and frown at the turn 2-3 Golem :P

@Bob/Junk: This matchup is unwinnable if they resolve Bob. Your only out is race Bob fast (sometimes doable, and that is why you need 3 Platings in the deck, because it just races unwinnable matchups and give you free wins e.g. Zoo/show and Tell/Progenitus). The only other way is to get Jitte online, but other than that Junk is perhaps one of the worst matchup for this deck, mainly because Stompy suffers much more from targeted discard than any other deck (take the Mox Opal and have a shitty hand, or take the 2cmc/3cmc drop that makes your hand and curve look like crap). Junk runs Wasteland, Bob, Knight, Discard, Vindicate, all of these cards are perhaps the best answer against any stompy variant out there (except Dstompy where you can sometimes catch them off with turn 1 moon).

[Admiral_Arzar]

@Legionaire v.s. Skirge. Both have their pros but I have to do more testing:
Legionaire Pro:
1) Unequipped: 3/1 first strike infinitely beats 1/1 flying lifelink.
2) Lord pumps: 4/2 first strike infinitely beats 2/2 flying lifelink.
3) Great on the defense while Skirge is terrible on the defense. This is a very relevant point because for the same reason Goyf is a good 'tempo' creature, so is Legionaire i.e. you play Goyf/Legionaire, they can't swing in because Goyf/Legionaire kills attackers, then next turn you swing in they can't block i.e. you get half a turn slowing your opponents down and gained half a turn with one attack.
4) Super Jitte carrier (not a super Plating carrier but definitely an insanely strong Jitte carrier)

Skirge Pro:
1) 1/1 Lifelink is weak but if you pair it up with Plating, this is much stronger than Legionaire since your opponents do not have the option to block
2) Lifelink matters somewhat in this deck
3) Much easier to cast (this is the biggest reason). Allows you to keep non Sol-land hands, non moxen-hands although I recommend mulling these hands in the first place. Porcelain Legionaire reads: :2: pay 2 life for a 3/1 First strike (since we don't have white sources outside of Moxens).



Judging from your pros/cons analysis, it seems like Legionaire is much stronger. Skirge is really only good in two situations:

A.. You have plating and they don't have removal (you're already winning regardless).
B. Your hand is bad and you should mulligan.

Taking it a step further, since Skirge is really only good at carrying Plating, you might as well just play Ornithopter, which is easier to cast and blocks 1/1s without dying.

[GGoober]

Yupp, without a Plating, Skirge is a weak 1/1, or a 2/2 (if pumped by lord). 2/2 lifelink is not going to offset the opposing aggro of Goyf/Knights whereas a 3/1 first strike or a 4/2 first strike (pumped by a lord) is going to get in.

I previously thought that Skirge is a better Jitte carrier until I realize that Legionaire does the same job since First Strike with Jitte is really stupid (you will always kill a 5 toughness creature with a 3/1 Legionaire + Jitte if they blocked).

The only true benefit that Skirge has is easier to cast i.e. you can cast it without Sol-lands. The lifelink is just a small benefit. Legionaire is pretty easy to cast, but often incurs a lot of life loss from tombs and opposing aggro. I'll need to test both cards out, but right now I'm leaning towards Legionaire. Both dudes die to bolt, but meh, one less bolt for Lodestone Golem.

I played 2 Ornithopter last week because NPH is still not legal yet. I would say Skirge is better than Ornithopter, but I think Legionaire is definitely better than Ornithopter. There maybe no room in the maindeck except to cut Overseer, and something tells me that I will regret that when I test it. Overseer is one of the glue that holds the deck together (well against aggro and control matchups). There's really not a lot of artifact creatures at the 2cmc cost that provides that much power/effect as Overseer does.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Yupp, without a Plating, Skirge is a weak 1/1, or a 2/2 (if pumped by lord). 2/2 lifelink is not going to offset the opposing aggro of Goyf/Knights whereas a 3/1 first strike or a 4/2 first strike (pumped by a lord) is going to get in.

There maybe no room in the maindeck except to cut Overseer, and something tells me that I will regret that when I test it. Overseer is one of the glue that holds the deck together (well against aggro and control matchups). There's really not a lot of artifact creatures at the 2cmc cost that provides that much power/effect as Overseer does.

Agreed on both points. I really believe you should keep overseer in as it is what enables this deck to go all fishy on your opponent and just stack +1/+1 counters ftw.

[unicoerner]

I think the point of Skirg costing just one mana is very underestimated.

1) We can play hands with City + other land more smoothly2
2) We have lots of good 2 and 3 drops where Porcelaine is probablky the worst of them
3) If we have a spare mana in the early turn we can play him quite easy
4) Easiyla enables turn 2 Mox, so we can cast Lodestone

[GGoober]

Most definitely agree with you, which is why I'm going to test the 2 cards heavily. Legionare is much more aggressive card and is stronger in combat than Skirge, but Skirge has some inbuilt synergy for the deck (regaining life lost, improved turn 1-2 plays without staring at awkward turn 1 pass the turn hands, setting up for stronger turn 2s). In summary, Skirge's strength is improving the smoothness of the deck's early plays, while presenting itself as a good evasive beater that offset aggro lifeswings, while Porcelain Legionare is a less situational beater that is a little awkward without Sol-land opening but is not as situational as Skirge when it comes to combat. Playtesting will tell whether the deck should desires smoother starts with Skirge (leading to better mulligan decisions) or take the same mulliganing principles (i.e. mull hands with no acceleration/sol-lands) and dominate the combat aspect stronger with Porcelain Legionaire.

[ThoSha]

The only thing i really considered was switching overseer to the sideboard and going for 4 Legionaires main.
Almost the same would work with revoker tough. I am not fond of the black flyer, as he is to conditional in my opinion. If we run like.. 8? equipments he would be nice but.. no way.

[JaredDS]

I think the point of Skirg costing just one mana is very underestimated.

1) We can play hands with City + other land more smoothly2
2) We have lots of good 2 and 3 drops where Porcelaine is probablky the worst of them
3) If we have a spare mana in the early turn we can play him quite easy
4) Easiyla enables turn 2 Mox, so we can cast Lodestone

The issue is we are running 20ish creatures and taking up 4 of these slots with a creature which is not good on his own is a serious problem. The power of the deck is that every creature/planeswalker/equipment you play is a must counter/deal with. Skirge can just be ignored without an equip unlike legionaire/etched champ/metamorph/master of eitherium/lodestone golem etc. With the mana acceleration and equips we don't want to be running more cards a control deck can ignore.

Porcelin Legionaire does more damage works even better with equips and is a threat on his own.

[Drac]

I finished top 4 yesterday with Steel Stompy, i have cut all the steel overseers in my list for metamorph's and the abyss. This is my list


4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 The Abyss
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Etched Champion
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Cranial Plating
4 CHalice of the Void
4 Master of Etherium

My sideboard was metadependant with too much combo hate, some perishes, jitte's and silent arbiters

These where my matchups

round 1 Doomsday Tendrills 2-1 win
round 2 Affinity 1-2 loss
round 3 Merfolk 2-0 win
round 4 Dark Tempo Thresh 2-1 win
round 5 Enlightened tutor countertop, thopter foundry with moat+humility and pithing needle 1-2 loss
round 6 The rock with deed, vindicate, pridemage 2-1 win


Lucked into the top 8 with most resistance

Top 8 Zoo 2-0 win
Top 4 Affinity 0-2 loss

I only saw my Abyss in the top 8 vs zoo, but it was amazing, it showed to be insane in testing aswell.
Affinity with the vault skirge and signal pests is a horrible matchup for this deck.. they have more evasion and an extra plating + they are faster.

In both games vs rock/junk/dark horizons whatever you want to call it i copyd his dark confidant on turn 2-3 with phyrexian metamorph which was awesome. Also copyd a vendillion clique to kill it, and and adept when i needed to draw a 4th mana source. Vs combo it also copyd my chalice providing me with chalice on 1 and on 0. The metamorph stays an artifact after u copy somehting so it doesnt die to abyss, and u can pump it with tezz. Beat the rock guy to death with 5/5 confidant :D

[zabuza]

First of all say that you have done a very good work with the deck. I like it a lot as it´s now but I think it has some problems that we must try to solve.

Long time ago I tried to build something similar to this deck (in essence there weren´t lot of the cards of the new sets so I have not enough tools to accomplish it) but left the deck unfinished because I couldn´t find some pieces that are crucial.

I like the list you are playing, it seems very sexy ;).

There are several cards I don´t like at all and I know the deck has some problems that needs to be answered and cards that I don´t like at all.

I´m going to try to explain this:

The deck has no removal of any kind. It´s a problem because there are cards that must be answered at any cost. They are: peacekeeper, null rod, kataki, serenity, pernicious deed,..... All decks need something to get rid of the cards that destroy it phylosophy. I think we must play any kind of removal.

Some cards you can consider are:

all is dust (lot of expensive):
Spine of Ish Sah (idem)
Ratchet bomb (a couple MD).
Powder keg
....

The are cards that albeit are good are not good enough in my opinion. They are

Master of Eterium: This guy is only a silly beater. It has a high casting cost (because sometimes the colour requirement is a headache and 3CC is not as good as 2 XD) and a huge body but has no evasion, no protection and sometimes the color requirement is hard to achieve. I´m not sure about this slots.

Tezzeret: Is a very good card but having UB in the CC is a true pain. I´m not very sure about this slots.

Sword of fire and ice and jitte: two pices of equipment that can´t be searched and few situational. The only (and the better equipment you can play is craneal plating which I wouldn´t play less than four of them).


On the other side I like the idea of playing the abyss. IS a great card in this deck (a one side removal) that doesn´t affect us. Definitely i have to test them.


I would write more later, now I have to leave. I really like this deck so i hope we can improve it more (if possible).

Sorry for my english ;)

[GGoober]

Grats Drac:

The list looks pretty damn amazing. I think your decklist could be optimized with -3 Inkmoth, +3 Underground Sea/River (play River if you have a lot of Merfolks otherwise Sea is ideal). The reason is, you have the Abyss, Tezzeret as bombs you want to always be able to play out. I've tested no manland builds and liked them but I reverted back to the manland build because I wanted to streamline those builds before exploring others.

Just a few weeks ago, I was thinking about Abyss in Landstill as an ETutor target. The card is a very underrated card (in control decks), but taking some food for thought from Tezzeret Stax, this seems to fit perfectly in Steel Stompy. What you have done here is bringing actual results to the Abyss while I have not even begu testing it! I'm definitely looking forward to test it (it's a one-sided card in Steel Stompy once again! lol non-artifact creatures FTW, it hits bob and tombstalkers!!!!)

I'm impressed you pulled victories against Dark Tempo and Junk. Would you mind giving some matchup details against those decks if you remember? I see Dark Tempo being slightly easier since a Chalice/Thorn just completely dominates them but Junk is still pretty rough (considering you fought through Deed, Vindicate, Pridemages)

Yeah AFfinity is a pretty 50-50 matchup (in their favor if they go first 2 out of 3 games). Your outs are: Draw Revoker naming Plating and you win this much easier since your creatures have bigger bodies. Also, Ratchet Bomb is a must in this matchup (set at zero). I think the matchup is now tougher since they play Skirge, which allows them to have a more varied CMC that dodges Chalice@0 and Ratchet Bomb. You can't win this without Revoker unless you can slow them down with Chalice/Bombs.

@Zabuza: Thanks, the deck has gone through a lot of changes, in philosophy, implementation and optimization. In fact, it's going through another huge one. It's with all the input/help from everyone that we're starting to see this approach of decreasing card-disadvantage, retaining speed, being more aggressive than defensive when executing Stompy strategies that become truly successful. Steel Stompy is a deck that really, just follows these principles. The rest is optimizing and picking the right cards/shell for specific metagames.

Removal for this deck is always a problem. You tend to lose to Bob before Peacekeeper/Kataki (since bob is more commonly played). 2 Jitte in the MD was the deck's only way to fight against Bobs in the past. The newer sets have been pretty amazing for us. Metamorph doesn't really remove creatures (except for legends) but it does give us their best creatures on top of Steel Stompy's ability to play threats/disruption much faster than other decks.

The cards you listed can't be played (All is Dust + Spine is too expensive, you can only realistically cast these around turn 6+ since hitting 4 mana on turn 3 is still a problem for this deck assuming opposing WAstelands). Ratchet Bomb is in the SB, Powder Keg shouldn't be played since it GG's your artifact lands. 3 Ratchet + 2 Jitte is usually sufficient removal. Don't forget that this deck plays threats very fast, and since youre threats are huge e.g. Master/Golem/Etched Champion, Steel Stompy has a very big advantage over other stompy decks because our threats are much more mana efficient for their size (and much easily castable).

@Master of Etherium: He's a vanilla beater, but he's a fucking big vanilla beater. There's a white version for Steel Stompy (Ivory Stompy also in N&D right now) that I've worked on but the main reasons I don't play any color outside of a blue splash is really due to Master of Etherium. He is a huge threat in this deck that they have to have the removal (don't forget you play Chalice/Wasteland/Golems) otherwise they will be pressured to lose in 2-3 turns. What I also enjoy is to bait with Masters to get plowed so I can resolve a Golem next turn with a Wasteland. Master is a creature that deserves every attention they can get, because it is most often bigger than their Knights/Goyfs on turns 2-4. Every turn they delay, Master will either force them to chump (you're +1 on card advantage if they chump) or they take 5-7 damage (you're up a turn on the clock).

@Tezzeret: Drac's list is super nice. This is the key step I think the deck may take. The UB build has one big inherent weakness: It dies to artifact hate the same way Affinity does, but I think Drac did a really good job in fitting even more power into the UB shell. In his list, I'll drop the 3 Inkmoths entirely and focus on 3 Underground sea (some resiliency against Rods/Serenity/Deed). The Abyss is really incredible. If you can sneak it out super fast (yaay Stompy manabase) against any aggro deck, it doesn't matter if they have artifact hate because they can't really remove the Abyss anymore (unless they're playing Junk/Pridemages).

I've been away for awhile, the list I was intending to play this weekend (I was out of town so probably playing this for next weekend is)

Lands: 23
4 Inkmoth
1 Blinkmoth
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of Synod
1 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wastelands

Creatures: 22
4 Porcelain Legionare
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem

Equipments: 5
3 Cranial Plating
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Others: 5
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds

Accelerants: 6
3 Opal
3 Diamond

SB:
4 Hibernation
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Winter Orb

Drac's list is what I think I will be testing because I think it is just overall much stronger, but the monoblue list has its merits if you have a lot of Junk/Deed/Rod hate in your meta (probably just don't play this deck at all, although Drac's list with changes could still function great)

Drac's UaByss list :P

23 Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Underground Sea/River (River if your meta has enough merfolks ~15% of field)

Dude: 19
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem

Others: 4
4 Chalice of the Void

Accel: 6
3 Opal
3 Diamond

Bombs: 9
2 The Abyss
3 Tezzeret
3 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte

61 card list because I've worked it out to be optimal for most parts (on a spreadsheet)

I really want to find place for Porcelain Legeionare, but I think the combination of 2 Abyss + 1 Jitte + 3 Metamorph + 4 Revoker + 3 Tezzeret adds to a lot of 'indirect' removal for the deck. I am going to suspect that for Drac's UB list, if cutting Plating to opt for the 2nd Jitte and some Porcelain could improve the deck but I highly doubt so.

Great results for the Abyss. I'm excited now! However, the mono-U list I posted will also be testing. It's a more direct way on just killing your opponents by the combat phase. Obviously you lose entirely to something like Moat/Humility/Ensnaring Bridge except with manlands, but the mono-U build is more stable and has a lower cmc curve that is fit more against aggro metas. Porcelain on turn 1 is sometimes more powerful than a turn 1 Nacatl (assuming no removal for both Nacatl and Legionaire in both cases). Porcelain + Equipment = nightmare if they don't have a removal. If they do have a removal, then your Masters/Golem also get a little happier :) The UB list has more ability to fight against opposing decks whereas the mono-U list has less ability to fight against opposing strategies e.g. UB list can win through Ensnaring Bridge with Tezz, and can win attrition wars in the mid game whereas the mono-U list is really geared to be more consistent and played with more combat tempo in mind.

[Admiral_Arzar]

The Abyss is a beast. I played $tax this weekend, and that card is absolutely absurd. The look on an aggro player's face when you drop that and they have no enchantment destruction is beautiful sweet music for my eyes. In this deck, it's completely asymmetrical and kills pretty much any creature we don't like (with the exception of Progenitus). I'm actually amazed and ashamed that none of us thought of this before now :(.

[GGoober]

Same here. And I think it's even more beastly in Steel Stompy than Stax simply because:

1) If they are behind your aggro plan, they straight up lose to combat.
2) If they are on par, they are now going to lose and lose and lose (since the Abyss is one-sided in this deck)
3) If they are ahead, then you are pulling ahead slowly.

It also helps that on point 3), if they are ahead, Abyss + your blockers can force you to buy more turns, and ever turn bought = Abyss going towards point 2), and 1).

You know why we hadn't thought of the Abyss? Because most people, including myself, think of cards the way cards function. Abyss is a card that functions as a removal card that is commonly identified in control decks (MBC, and recently being a little surfacing for non-MBC decks). It takes one heck of a mind to look at what the card says: "Non-artifact creatures, connect the dots to an artifact creature deck that only plays artifact creatures, that plays super fast mana acceleration" and then connect the dots into a laser-beam that says this-card-is-way-one-sided-than-anything-seen-so-far. It's the same way people need to look at Chalice in this deck functioning differently than Chalice in Stax, or even in a deck like Dragonstompy, Chalice in this deck really isn't as critical as it is in Dragonstompy where their gameplan breaks down when a single creature is removed.

God damn it. This is why I love feedback for any decks. You get the discussion going, and this is definitely one of the key cards (sadly an expensive one) that makes the UB build even stronger. Still doesn't solve the weakness of the UB build though (susceptibility to Deed/Rods/Grudge/Flux) but I think playing with 3 Seas should help that, and also improve consistency in casting Tezz/Master/Perish/Abyss.

Oh, Abyss + Metamorph can now really laugh at Emrakul decks. Progenitus is still a problem but Metamorph + Perish definitely help. Unless they hardcast it but Wastelands kinda deal with those decks (Shelldrazi/Turbodrazi).

[mrjumbo03]

No more love for Steel Overseer then? And yes, the Abyss was tailor made for this deck! If only it was a little cheaper. Can't wait for this deck to rape the Mental Mistep Meta!

[zabuza]

I like the inclusion of the Abyss because as we said is a mono-directional removal ;), but i think removing the inkmoth is not good at all. They are giving me LOT of games so I sense that removing them is not the right way to go. Manlands let you wint through moat and are an evasive and efficient beater, giving as another alternate win condition (poison) , being possible killing the oppoenent that has lot of life (decks like life or so).

The match against Affinit is very rought so perhaps could be useful having more tools to such kind of decks.

I´m thinking on several cards that could fit in this deck to give it a more comboish approach ;) or giving it more flexibility:

Silent Arbiter : Lot of used in vintage muds and can slow a lot other decks while beating with our plated champion or plated inkmoth ftw.

Copper Gnomes: this little card fit in the 2CC and paired with Blightsteel colossus can be a truly festival.

Quicksilver amulet: paired with the gnomes above to easily cast colossus.

Anyways, the deck splash seems stronger to me than the blue one (because the only blue card is needed to play is metamorph and it can be casted without U ;) ). Black gives perish, THE ABYSS (great discover dude),...

The only thing about losing blue is the master, but .......

What do you think?

[Drac]

Oke lets see if i can recall the 3 games vs the rock..

Game 1 he wins the die roll and my chalice gets discarded. I drop revoker naming Pridemage, he gets a confidant online, but i copy it with metamorph. He drops a goyf and in the next two turns i drop etched champion and tezzeret and double waste him. He dies to my 5/5 confidant ^^

Game 2 He has the nuts, going turn 1 discard, turn 2 confi, and he has 2x pridemage 2x swords and a deed to drop this game. I still almost killed him with an etched champion, but deed kinda reset most of my board. A knight finished meoff.

Game 3 I look at my hand and i have only mox diamond, city of traitors and another land in hand.. i thought this could be annoying vs wasteland.. the rest of my hand was 3x master of etherium 1x metamorph. So i played turn 1 master.. he played a inquisition of kozilek taking a master. Turn 2 i drop yet another master.. He drops a tarmogoyf and i proceed to drop turn 3 metamorph, copying master.. He scooped shortly after since my masters where 7/7 in my turn 3

Vs Dark Thresh

Game 1 i blow him out on the play going turn 1 chalice 1 which is already almost gg followed by turn 2 tezz.

Game 2 takes forever but i was abit screw and he boarded in dreadnought which pounded my 8/2 etched champion.

Game 3 this game is drawn out abit, but i have a tezzeret and i believe 2 etched champions to protect him from some goyfs.. He proceeds to outtap for a goyf and a dreadnought. But then i race him with inkmoth nexus giving him exactly 10 poison with help fro tezz+plating. We where both on 20 life... he didint have fetch and i didint have tombs

I liked how everybody was playing mental misstep, i played this on saturday( the first day MM was legal )
With the hype about it, and the spoiling of phyrexian metamorph i decided to buy 2 The Abyss and try this deck.

I have liked the inkmoth nexus, they where most helpfull, but indeed i would also like to see Underground Sea in the deck. Ill tinker some with the land configurations

Do not cut blue from this deck, master and tezzeret are such power houses.

[zabuza]

I think the best configuration is the actual one, with UB, because lof of good cards are everywhere.

In fact, I like your list a lot (even I´ve bought two The abyss too (italian ones (Abysso) :( ).

How good where having 3 tezz MD? Aren´t they a lot of?

I think (like you ) that we must not cut the inkmoth. they are awesome ;).

Perhaps you could cut some art lands (perhaps 1 black and 1 blue to play a couple of undergrounds, but not sure).

I liek metamorph a lot. I think it is the nuts ;)

Can you explain a bit more how the abyss was in your matches and how were your matches against affinities?

[Drac]

I only saw the abyss in the top 8 match vs zoo.. for the rest i didint see them the whole day. But they where awesome, they blew him out of the water. In testing they have shown to be a powerhouse vs creature decks, even the ones that run qasali pridemage, you have so much to target and have revoker.

Affinity is horrible... They have signal pests, vault skirge, more platings then you and archbound ravager if you revoker the plating. They are just faster. Also they play Tezz just like u

I think Affinity is a horrible deck, but it is the nuts vs this deck. I never saw my boarded jitte's vs affinity tho.

I do not think that you should cut artifact lands from my list, for metalcraft reasons, i play only revoker on the 2 slot. Maybe ill try cutting 1 inkmoth for 1 Sea.

[zabuza]

And cutting one tezz?? You are playing 3 and in my build (I only play 2 of them) is going fine. Or perhaps one revoker?? I suggest you this because I´ve never said "Oh, damn it an inmoth nexus",because they are awesome but if said this sometimes where tezz stuck in your hand because you have not black/blue.


I´ve thought of increasing the number of metamorphs because are so great.

Any other ideas???

[Drac]

The revokers and metamorphs have both been very nice for me. But i do not think that wi will be cutting a Tezzeret, since it is such a powerhouse. And finding room for more collored mana sources and cutting tezzeret doesnt seem to be synergy. I want to keep tez, definitly if i up my collored mana

[GGoober]

As I can also testify to Drac's results on you-can't-cut-Masters. Sometimes when you draw multiple masters your opponents just have to sit back and lose. The power of Masters and Golems are much stronger now given that we have Phyrexian Metamorph for this deck. The nice thing about this deck compared to Affinity is that most affinity lists actually can't support Masters (if they're opting for the sligh versions of Affinity with Signal Pests). It's a pity that Masters are sometimes a little slow in Affinity, but in Steel Stompy, your sol-lands + Opal/Diamond make Masters almost two turns faster than in Affinity most of the time.

@mrjumbo3: I don't like cutting Overseer, but Overseer was primarily there for one reason: aggro matchups. Against Zoo/Bant/Junk, Overseer is still somewhat weak. AGainst Merfolks, Overseer is one of the best cards against Merfolks. Against Gobs, Overseer is great on the play but trades with a lackey on the draw. I have not done enough testing,but Legionaire in the mono-U build fulfills much more than Overseer against the weaker matchups (Zoo/Bant/Junk), and is still great against Merfolks (they need 4 toughness to start trading with this guy at all, and if you get a Jitte at any point in the game, it's going to be bad for them). Legionaire is much better against turn 1 lackey against Goblins as well. Obviously the more broken play is to go turn 1 Overseer, Turn 2 Lodestone so by cutting Overseer, Golems are naturally not going to be 6/4 for most of the time. However, since Overseer was for most parts geared to fight against opposing aggro decks, Porcelain Legionaire still does a great job. Overseer is much stronger over 2-3 turns than Legionaire but Legionaire is going to be good on himself for about 2 turns in the early game and still retain power in the mid-late game when you have equipments online.

A lot more testing needs to be done, whether Overseer v.s. Legionaire should be played in the mono-U builds. I was just thinking through last night, that the Abyss should really be a SB card. My main fear is that the current configuration in Drac's list is a little too heavy on the 4cmc drop (3 TEzz + 2 Abyss + 4 Golem v.s. just 4 Golem in the monoU list). This will affect mulligans for sure, but I think the raw power maybe worth it. I was thinking if cutting Golems or Abyss to the SB would be better and can't convince myself to cut Golems above Abyss (because Golem is not only a big beater win condition, but he applies himself to every matchup out there: combo/control/aggro where the Abyss is only applied to aggro matchups). A lot of testing needs to be done, but that's a pretty nice list Drac's got there. I would hate to cut Inkmoth, but I think with that many 4cmc spells and focus on colored mana, you really want to consistently cast Abyss/Tezz/Masters/Perish (in the past you only cared about 4 MoE/Perish + 2 Tezz).

[zabuza]

If you play "the abyss" then Overseer is some way redundant to fight against aggro because the need to swarm really fast to avoid the abyss effect (only goblins seems capable of doing that), but anyways your guys are there to void it connecting. Beside of that you can play Silent arbiter to improve the "anti-swarming" weapons, but I think it´s not needed yet.

Anyways Overseer is good because it has the right cost (2) and because pumping golems to put far way it´s thoughtness from bolts range is nice.

I wouldn´t remove golems. They are so powerful to relegate them to the side. I only suggested removing one tezz because most lists play only a couple and in mi case I always have one in the first turns of the game (i´m thinking they are teached to do that ;) ).

Affinity´s are really fast and although we have masters they have lot of unblockable dudes (signal pest, ornithopters, champions..) so usually putting a big body in front of you is not the solution. Anyways people doesn´t play affinity a lot because it is very easy to hate them (as we are, but this deck at least put some obstacles to do it).

You are 100% right on the fact that increasing the casting cost of your spells hurt and having lot of 4CC is not a good option, but the deck (as I can see) only would have 8 cards with that cost (4 golems, 2 abyss and 2 Tezz).

Your are right that masters are sometimes the metamorph´s best friends. I think I´m goin to leave them in a configuration of 4/3 or so.

[Koby]

Wow I can't believe I didn't see The Abyss as an option too. Talk about blinders hah!

The one issue I foresee with running eight 4cc cards is having them glut your hand and being uncastable. To this regard, it may be necessary to run 2 Crucible of Worlds to offset any Wastelands or City of Traitors self-sac. I would also consider increasing the land count by 1 or 2 as well.

[into_play]

Drac, what sideboard were you running with your Abyss build? And also, do you ever put out a Chalice of the Void for 2 or do you avoid it for fear of messing with your own Revokers/Platings?

[Drac]

My sideboard was geared at beating combo, last 2 big tournaments before this one about 30% of the metagame was combo, with 25%+ Doomsday/ANT/TES.

So my board looked like this

4 Leyline of Sanctity(providing a good out to Rebuild/Hurklys Recall
4 Mindbreak Trap (i like attacking storm combo from different angles, because with the banning of mystical tutor they can't efficiently hate vs different types of hate. They have to reduce chants/duress for bounce spells vs this deck, which if they have will be the max number of rebuild/hurkyl.)
3 Perish
2 Jitte
2 Silent Arbiter

I do not consider this a good board if you do not face rediculous amounts of storm combo, sadly at my last tournament, the first day mental misstep was legal, all the combo players decided to see if MM was going to be overhyped, and played something else.

I do recommend using both Jitte and Arbiter, they work really well.

I never fear putting chalice on any number. This is all about the matchup and game situation. Vs tempo thresh i would love a chalice 2 next to my chalice 1 Regardless of any cards i put myself off.

And if i am in a position where only deed would wreck me i would gladly put it on 3.

[zabuza]

I´ve been testing more the deck and Deed is the worst card we can face to. Anyways no much people plays them nowdays ;).

I like the deck a lot in the last configuration I´m testing (similar to Drac´s list, but with two tezz instead 3) and 3 revokers so playig a couple of steel overseer.


How are going your testings? Can anybody provide more data form testing. THX

[GGoober]

It is incredibly hard to fight Deed if you're playing any form of artifact deck (Affinity/MUD/Steel Stompy). Actually, it is incredibly hard to fight Deed if you're not playing a deck with fast clock or card advantage (i.e. all decks lose to Deed but the better decks bant/zoo/junk do not lose as bad because they have other forms of strategies/card advantage to fight a resolved deed).

I'll probably have more game results by tonight or the weekend. Rukcus is right that if you want to play 3 Tezz + 2 Abyss + 4 Golem, you need to play about 24 lands with 2 Crucibles, just to make sure you can always hit 4 mana on turn 3-4. Despite UB's broken bombs, I've been much happier playtesting the mono-U build that I posted with Porcelain Legionaire. It's just way more consistent and doesn't need to worry about losing everything including its manabase to artifact hate.

Regarding Chalice@0,1,2,3. I mentioned this in the primer that Steel Stompy's main goal is to focus on just tempo'ing and beating in. If you feel that dropping that Chalice@2 can buy you enough turns against relevant decks (e.g. UGb BobThresh, Bant), then do it. All you care when playing Steel Stompy is how you are going to win. If you can afford that Porcelain Legionaire going in by himself and shutting down all other legionaires and further plating looking at a hand of a few Masters, then set the Chalice@2 if your opponents are more affected than you are. Chalice is a tool used to buy tempo, nothing more. If your opponents are affected by it more than you are, it is already doing the job. Just make sure to have enough practice with the deck and its matchup to know that you are not screwing yourself over.

There was a game against Imperial Painter where I had Chalice@1 and Chalice@2 and a hand of 3cmc creatures. I set the Chalice@3 knowing that he can no longer win on the ground with my Etched Champion in play, and setting Chalice@3 shuts off Jaya and any other possible way he could win. I knew that I could well win because I can just draw Golem/manlands to win. So it's really about knowing your matchups, what you can do with your own deck that makes the decision.

[zabuza]

I think 2 Tezz are enough (even I´m considering them) so perhaps is not needed to increase the manabase at all.

In fact I´m thinking on cutting Tezz(because double colour requirements) and only playing Abyss and Golems. On this scenario I would play som,ething like your "blue" list but with a little splash to black for abyss and perish (on sdb).

I´m thinking on:

Lands: 23
4 Inkmoth
3 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wastelands

Creatures: 21
3 Porcelain Legionare
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem

Equipments: 4
4 Cranial Plating

Others: 7
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 The Abyss

Accelerants: 6
3 Opal
3 Diamond


Or something similar.


I know about deed. One of the decks I usually play have 4 deeds MD and when they appear the game is over. Anyways , if deed doesn´t appear or I begin fastly this deck can win.

Against other decks I have to test this deck is a beast so I´m happy with it ;).

I´ll be waiting for more tips and notices from you ;)

[Guy I Don't Know]

I started with Planeswalker Stax and have been slowly taking out the subpar cards for good cards and it is slowly turning into Steel Stompy! Recently cut thopter foundry/sword of the meek for Master Etherium/Etched Oracle. The Main Difference is playing enough blue cards for Force of Will. I could see moving the FOW to the board and getting rid of Jace for more artifacts and mainboard The Abyss.

So here is the list:

3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Master Etherium
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void

3 Etched Champion

1 Mox Diamond
3 Lotus Petal

3 Jeweled Amulet

2 Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Underground Sea
4 City of Traitors

3 Ancient Tomb

4 Darkslick Shores
2 Darkwater Catacombs

SB:
3 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
4 The Abyss
4 Vendilion Clique
4 Hurkyl’s Recall

Also the manabase could be improved. Right now it is consistently able to play spells. I would like to be able to put in some number of wastelands. Also Jeweled Amulet, Mox Diamond, and Lotus Petal may change but right now they work well to power out Jace and Tezz on turn 2. I don't like Mox Diamond as more than a one of because I get too many hands that are like: land sol land mox mox and I stare at my planeswalkers and can't cast them. Sideboard is self explanatory except for Clique which is against primarily combo and control.

[Guy I Don't Know]

Double Post

[zabuza]

I seriously think that fow and jace doesn´t belong to this deck at all.

In fact the list that Drac played seems very strong (and the mono U of metalworker too).

How good are the Porcelain in your testings?? Better than overseer??

[GGoober]

I started with Planeswalker Stax and have been slowly taking out the subpar cards for good cards and it is slowly turning into Steel Stompy! Recently cut thopter foundry/sword of the meek for Master Etherium/Etched Oracle. The Main Difference is playing enough blue cards for Force of Will. I could see moving the FOW to the board and getting rid of Jace for more artifacts and mainboard The Abyss.

So here is the list:

3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Master Etherium
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void

3 Etched Champion

1 Mox Diamond
3 Lotus Petal

3 Jeweled Amulet

2 Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Underground Sea
4 City of Traitors

3 Ancient Tomb

4 Darkslick Shores
2 Darkwater Catacombs

SB:
3 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
4 The Abyss
4 Vendilion Clique
4 Hurkyl’s Recall

Also the manabase could be improved. Right now it is consistently able to play spells. I would like to be able to put in some number of wastelands. Also Jeweled Amulet, Mox Diamond, and Lotus Petal may change but right now they work well to power out Jace and Tezz on turn 2. I don't like Mox Diamond as more than a one of because I get too many hands that are like: land sol land mox mox and I stare at my planeswalkers and can't cast them. Sideboard is self explanatory except for Clique which is against primarily combo and control.

Hi Guy I Don't Know. First off, I just got back from Rochester (I was born there) :P

To your decklist. I want to caution that it is a terrible bad habit to try to mish-mash decks and transform decks from one deck to another by swapping cards. This is because this entire process is based on the idea that: "This card is good, there I can play it in deck X or Y". What you have done is to try to take out cards and put in cards to try to keep the strengths of both Steel Stompy and Planeswalker Stax, but it won't work because both decks are optimized based on the deck's needs.

I'll go ahead and say that even with Drac's list, which has a ton of raw power, I've tested it to be somewhat less synergistic than the original lists I played. The deal is that sometimes raw bombs maybe better than synergy for various matchup, but this involves a tremendous amount of playtesting or preference for playstyle and the given meta which finally determines which build is stronger.

In your build, the first few comments that I'll make is:
1) Lotus Petal is strictly inferior to Mox Diamond. Diamond is card disadvantageous but it most definitely pays itself off for playing future spells. Stompy/Stax is a deck that needs the permanent manasource since we are stuck in an archetype that actually doesn't have enough ideal manabase to support the archetype. The main problem of Stompy/Stax comes from its manabase. 8 Sol lands is still not statistically enough for the deck to play out consistently the way it wants. Regarding your bad draws with Mox Diamonds, those are just cases where you drew them bad. The statistics show otherwise when you play around 23-25 lands with 3-4 Mox Diamonds that for most parts this configuration does you more good than bad.

2) 3 Ancient Tomb is most definitely wrong (see my point in 1 on needing 8 sol-lands if you're playing Stompy/Stax). Every less sol-land you play is every way inconsistent to the game plan trying to bust out 2-4cmc spells in the early game. Sure drawing multiple Tombs/Cities suck, but not drawing Tombs/Cities suck even more.

3) I don't like Darkslick Shores and Catacombs. I most definitely won't play Catacombs since 4 Underground Sea in your list will mean that the catacombs usually come in tapped. I've mentioned in the Planeswalker stax that Underground River is another good alternative

4) Llawan in the SB: If you really want to beat Merfolks, just play the regular Steel Stompy list, this will free up Llawan in the SB.

5) I feel your list is highly unfocused, but I think that comes from you trying to mish-mash Steel Stompy with Planeswalker Stax. Clique could be good, but is difficult to cast with the manabase consistently, and it also doesn't do enough for the deck.

Anyway guys, I've been thinking that Hibernation in the mono-U build has turned out to be just a little more flexible in testing. In particular, in postboard games against Junk where you are trying to tax them with Wastelands/Golems/Thorns from resolving Deeds etc, Hibernation actually gives you one more turn against Deed. That was a case-scenario which I utilized in a few playtested games.

Lastly, I think I'm going to go ahead with a lower cmc configuration and have 2 Abyss in the SB. I convinced myself that I value Golem morein the MD than Abyss (there's also disynergy with Golem casting Abyss/Tezz 2.0) since Golem affects every matchup that isn't Affinity or MUD.


Here's my latest list for UB

Lands: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Underground River

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Dudes: 19
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem

Lockpieces: 6
4 Chalice
2 Crucible of Worlds

Bombs: 6
3 Tezzeret
3 Cranial Plating

SB:
2 Abyss
3 Perish
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Sphere of Resistance/Trinisphere (for 5 thorn effect)
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Umezawa's Jitte

I might actually really considering going up to 4/3 Diamond/Opal split now, but that maybe a tad too excessive. But with the higher cmc curve, having 4 Diamonds and 3 Opals for more acceleration, with 2 Crucibles and 24 lands may prove to be more powerful.

I really hate hate hate cutting Overseer. Any ideas if it's worth it to move the Revokers into the board and have Overseers in the MD? I don't want to do something like -1 Tezz, -1 Crucible -1 land for +3 Overseer since I think the whole point of this new list is to accomodate for the higher cmc curve where the 2nd crucible and 24th land is more relevant, and the 3rd tezz will naturally fit into the more consistent manabase.

Now, with the mono-U list, you really don't have to fret too much about card space and selection. It is a lot more consistent and smooth to play, but lacks the huge bombs that might make up for various matchups (e.g. Tezz/abyss). It's a very aggressive aggro version and utilizes strongly on equipments to get in there.

Lands: 23
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod

Accelerants: 6
3 Opal
3 Diamond

Creatures: 23
3 Steel Overseer
3 Porcelain Legionaire
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Master of Etherium
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem

Equipments: 5
3 Cranial Plating
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Others: 4
4 Chalice of the Void

SB:
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Hibernation
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 flex slots (3Sphere/Crucible/Winter Orb/4th Revoker etc)

In a more aggro field, I recommend playing the mono-U version. Drawing multiple overseers early is a GG to aggro decks (a lot of times when you have turn 1 and turn 2 overseer, aggro decks are very behind). This list is where Legionaire + Overseer/Master + Equipment shines).

[Guy I Don't Know]

Changes to decklist posted above: Main -3 Etched Oracle +3 The Abyss SB -4 The Abyss +4 Leyline of the Void


Hi Guy I Don't Know. First off, I just got back from Rochester (I was born there) :P
3) I don't like Darkslick Shores and Catacombs. I most definitely won't play Catacombs since 4 Underground Sea in your list will mean that the catacombs usually come in tapped. I've mentioned in the Planeswalker stax that Underground River is another good alternative

5) I feel your list is highly unfocused, but I think that comes from you trying to mish-mash Steel Stompy with Planeswalker Stax. Clique could be good, but is difficult to cast with the manabase consistently, and it also doesn't do enough for the deck.


Darkwater Catacombs is from odyssey and doesn't come into play tapped. Clique is easily castable with the manabase in the decklist I posted and is for matchups that don't play many creatures (Landstill, Combo) to replace The Abyss. I don't understand your comment about lack of focus, The deck's focus is to turn 2 or three a Planeswalker. There is a disruption package to get you to turn 2 or 3 and 10 open slots that at least half should be blue. I think playing artifact creatures has synergy with tezzeret and I think having blue spells has synergy with FOW. There are only a handful of cards that have both requirements that are playable. They are Master Etherium, Phyrexian Metamorph, and thopter foundry.

I do agree that making new decks are usually less powerful than preexisting decks. I like magic because I can make new decks, and every once in awhile I do really well with them. If I wanted to win I would just play URG Tempo or Merfolk.

[zabuza]

I think like metalworker does. THe deck is good as it is. Mixing other decks with it make it worse.

And beside of that you probably will have problems with blue.

Anyways and keeping the metalworker list in mind, has anybody tested it more? I´ve played several games today with it and liked a lot. I´ve faced against rock (which is 50-50 (if they deed you loose, if don´t you win ;) ), against burn which is easy with chalices and golems (but be careful with shattering spree on side ;( ) and with a kind of white weene (i win (abyss), but it would be helpful having something for removing bad things like equipments, enchants (pariah, blessing,..)

I was thinking on brittle efligy for having targeted removal on side, but it seems worse than anything we play now.

thoughts?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Brittle Effigy would be good if we didn't play Chalice.

[zabuza]

I´ve been testing the deck again but today with the porcelain and I´m not sure about them. I´m doubting between overseer and porcelain and I don´t know which is best to play.

Porcelain has no 2CC so can´t be countered by spell snare, has FS which is very useful and doens´t need other dudes for being good. On teh othe side he usually cost 4 life (which is a lot in this deck) because tomb+ porcelain is not a good play. Beside of that has little thoughness and is susceptible to lavamancers, fanatic, lava dart, fire ice,.... .......

Overseer is only good with other dudes which are pumped by him. It´s useful to grow golems (keeping out them from bolt range) and champions/nexus (for more beating). On the other side he is not good alone and is not very good in combat.

I don´t know which of them is better :( (although I´m thinking on going back to overseer).

Another bads thing is that my lista has 63 cards and I don´t know which one discard. It is:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Inkmoth Nexus

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Dudes: 21
3 Steel Overlord
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem

Lockpieces: 5
4 Chalice
1 Crucible of Worlds

Bombs: 8
2 Tezzeret
2 The Abyss
4 Cranial Plating

SB:
3 Perish
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Sphere of Resistance/Trinisphere (for 5 thorn effect)
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Tormod's Crypt


I like playing abyss MD because they are good almost everytime I play them. The same for tezz and 4CC is not being a problem at the moment.

At the same point I wouldn´t run less than 4 inkmoth and 4 craneal because they are awesome and good in multiples too.

Metamorphs are in the 3CC (almost everytime) the same as champion and I can´t reduce it´s number.

What can I cut?

Any more ideas or testing rsults from anybody???

[tsabo_tavoc]

What can I cut?

Any more ideas or testing rsults from anybody???

Cut a combination of Tezzeret and Abyss because 8 4cc is too much.

I play 3 Porcelain / 4 Revoker. Remember you can cast Porcelain off a Mox to avoid life loss in longer games.

[GGoober]

I brought this list to my tourney today:

23 Lands:
4 Tomb
4 City
4 Waste
4 Inkmoth
2 Blinkmoth
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of Synod

Creatures: 23
3 Revoker
3 Overseer
3 Legionaire
4 Champion
4 Master
2 Metamorph
4 Lodestone

Equipments: 5
3 Plating
2 Jitte

Others: 4
4 Chalice

Accel: 6
3 Opal
3 Diamond

SB:
3 Hibernation
3 Rushing River ('tech' against Rod/Humility/EBridge/Serenity/Deed, it buys a turn essentially, pairing nicely with the more aggro MD)
4 Thorn
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Revoker
1 Metamorph

The Porcelain Legionaire was great, but Overseer was much better. It made me realize that cutting Overseer isn't just cutting Overseer, it's really cutting a card that makes all your other dudes much stronger. Granted Overseer only works great if you're playing high number of creatures i.e. more than 20, if your list opts for less creatures, I can see cutting them for other creatures.

The maindeck was pretty solid. Legionaire was often pay 4 life initially but it was 'unblockable' for over 3 turns (people have to play a 4-toughness creature to block him so if you're going first with Legionaire, he's almost going to get in for 6-9 damage by himself and once you get a Master/Overseer, they need 5 toughness to trade). Legionaire was really really good on the defense as well (basically you're gaining a turn of combat by dropping him with your opponents unable to swing in). AGainst Merfolks, he almost acted like an Etched Champion on the defense/offense.

I didn't play UB today because I didn't like the playtesting with the super high curve. I felt that the monoU version I post here runs much smoother.

I need to test Legionaire more but the life does matter. However, if you do draw Moxes, you're good to go in the mid-late game. Brief matchups:

Match 1: TES
Kept a no disruption hand but it had Revokers. Turn 1 Revoker, Turn 2 Master, Turn 3 Master with a Wasteland gets in there. He Shatter sprees 2 artifacts before finally losing in 2 turns.

Game 2: Turn 1 Revoker naming LED again (should have named Petal since it's easier for them to initiate with Petal and hard for them to go off on LED) but don't matter. Turn 2 Metamorph copying Revoker on LED again. Turn 3 Master + Wasteland it was over again. Sometimes you don't even need to draw real hate :P

Match 2: RB Goblins
Game 1 he wins the die roll lackey. I drop turn 1 Porcelain he doesn't have removal. He plays a normal Onslaught Goblin game. I drop Champion, Overseer then Jitte and got in there.

Game 2 he draws the nuts. Lackey, Spree my Mox Diamond and Seat, then Wastelands my City and I lose with nothing on the board.

Game 3 I chalice@1 awesome. He runs out a turn 3 Null rod and I stare at a hand of Champion/Master/Jitte. I kept an explosive Mox hand not anticipating Null Rods. Didn't draw the other 23-5=18 artifact land sources and proceed to scoop it up.

Match 3: Pox
Game 1: He innocent bloods some stuff, Pox twice and I pack it up. I had an aggressive beat with Masters and Champion but he cleared everything.

Game 2: I turn 1 Chalice and shut off a ton of his card. I paid a total of 2(Chalice)+4(Legionaire)+4(Legionaire) = 10 life and he got free hasty bloodghast in play. I beat him down to 10, draw a Jitte and felt awesome. However, I misplayed and punted so bad that I make Legacy look like a bad format. He has 6 power on board (1 Bloodghast and 2 Factory). I swung in putting him at 7 life with 2 Jitte counter and me at 2 life. Do the math? I lose because I'm a n00b and should have left 1 Legionaire to block and the other to accumulate counters. I have no idea what I'm thinking here. Legionaire blocks everything too!!

So I'm 1-2 but otherwise would have had a good chance at Pox. I tested 4 games after post-board and won 3/4 games. Thorn of Amethyst helps but more importantly with Legionaire and 6 manlands, their innocent blood and sac effects don't work too well since I just sac manlands.

Match 4: Team Italia
I'm 1-2 so I gave him the win. We played it out and I won 2-1.

Wasteland really hurts this deck, and Revokers + Metamorphs are amazing against his Stoneforge Mystic or copying his Sword equipments. Chalice@1 also hurts the deck a ton. I ran out my threats fast (Legionaire + Overseer is really strong together)

Comments:
Overall I think this maybe one of the smoothest list I've played. I know that cutting Overseer seems to be everyone's choice but I've tested with no Overseer and found that all my other dudes were performing weaker (Golem and Champion in particular). The 8 lord theme is quite central. I've dropped to 7, accommodating the Legionaires, which were great in a creature/pump heavy build. 2 Jitte + 3 Plating with the Legionaires make a lot of sense and 2 games a Legionaire carried a Jitte to victory :P

I'll have to test the UB build some day, my Abysses haven't arrived yet, but I'm certain that unless you play 24 lands with 2 Crucibles, you would have to sacrifice some slots when it comes down to deciding whether you want Tezz/Abyss/Golem maindeck. I've opted for Abyss in the SB but I'll have to see how the manabase can be improved.

Also, artifact hate screws this deck :( Haven't played Rushing River postboard game, but in theory it should be the best out you can have for monoU without playing Pithing Needle. you should be able to pressure them down to lower than 10 life, and EOT Rushing River bounce Rod/Deed/Humility/EBridge to swing in for a win. Not a lot of people should expect this and it's the deck's only out to an otherwise impossible situation. I've considered Echoing Truth as well, but it seems that River can bounce up to 2 permanents and this could be much more relevant.

[mrjumbo03]

@ Metalwalker, I don't think you can produce U mana with Null Rod out. But I agree that it works for the other things though. Not to mention saccing a City of Traitors when you're about to lose it is sweet as well.

[zabuza]

I´ve gone back to the overseer version. It looks better to me. Porcelain is really good but loosing all this life for only a 3/1 first striking (the problem is that it´s low thoughtness makes it easy to kill whith any kind of direct damage/-1/-1 counters) seems too risky for me.

On the other side playing 8 spells with CC4 is not so risky. We are playing 23/24 lands plus moxes, but anyways, it a personal preference. I´m still thinking which ones I can put in my SDB.

Abyss is so great making the opponent having few creatures while you can grow your army.

Tezz is a good finisher, but must be protected and sometimes it´s difficult (against certain decks like kuldotha, gobbos,..).


Pox seems difficult to beat because all the discard and destruction, but seems that you haven´t been very lucky this time.


Can you tell more things about the matches and your thoughts?
I can see in your matches that (not thinking on your missplay ;) ) sometimes is hard to get an stable board in which you can develop your position. In the goblins match, i you haven´t had the porcelain you would be forced to block with your overseer to lackey and probably (if you had an opal) it would make you be slower.

Team itali seems to be a hard match because lavamancers (our overseer revoker, even golems are easily "killables" so I think in this kind of matches is where abyss shines.

[GGoober]

Pox/Disacard/heavy creature removal decks are generally tough. You need a combination of Chalice or Golem to stand a chance. I personally find a deck like Pox to be most difficult, that's because they are Wasteland resilient most of the time, and discard hurts Stompy. non-targeted creature removal also gets rid of Champion. Your goal is to be able to keep aggressive hands with Chalice or Thorn in the SB. If you play the older builds with 6 manlands and 2 Crucibles, this matchup becomes much easier.

For the Goblin matchup, I've tested enough and conclude 2 things:
If they have Lackey in play and they connect, you will lose, and maybe struggle for a win if you have a Jitte.
If Lackey is not involved, you are very favored.
If Jitte is in play, you are winning.

In this sense, it's usually a 50-50 matchup dependent on the die roll. As long as they lead with Vial and no Lackeys, you should be doing much better in this matchup, otherwise Lackey is the only problem the deck sometimes cannot handle. Legionaire was great because it's a turn 1 answer to Lackey without losing itself (unlike Revoker/Overseer).

Team Italia is hard if they sneak in Lavamancer. Team Itali is very much like the Zoo matchup i.e. more burn than other decks, but I think the matchup is much easier than Zoo. SFM isn't a problem now that you have Metamorph. I rather fight against Team Italia than a deck with Pridemage+KotR (these 2 cards are very good against Steel Stompy). And Zoo is a deck that so happens to play Burn+Pridemage+KotR and is still around 45-65 or 50-50 for Steel Stompy. The same deal goes: If you draw Chalice/Champion, you are going to really screw up their gameplan. Team Italia seems to fold to Wastelands much more readily than Zoo and their dudes are not big enough to race Steel Stompy sometimes.

[mrjumbo03]

How's the testing coming, Metalwalker? I still don't feel comfortable with the Legionnaire mainly because the pay 4 life opening hurts so bad, coupled with a few more uses of your Ancient Tomb. It makes it harder to be aggressive when they can swing back and you're helping them with damage. Also, how is Rushing River?

[GGoober]

I haven't been able to play/test MTG the past 1-2 weeks but Legionnaire has been great, but the lifeloss is going to be a free win for other aggro decks. A lot of times, Ancient Tombs are pushing your opponents to win when they only need to deal 10 damage to you. I know for sure that Overseer is still better than Legionaire. Overseer gives you the ability to win some games where Legionaire can't i.e. games where you are stalling for a few turns, or games where you have a bunch of 2/1, 1/1, 2/2's that start growing too fast for an opponent to handle.

Another option is to try out Gheizen64's Ivory Stompy, running Steel Stompy with a white splash instead of blue for Master. I don't fully agree with this because Master is the reason this deck actually works (4 MoE and 4 Champion on the defense/offense is very important to match opposing big quality creatures). The white splash he is working on has it spros though: tutoring with SFM and playing with Legionaire which has great synergy with SFM tutored equipments too. I'm definitely open to that option. I know that UW Steel Stompy is probably weaker than UB Steel Stompy, so it's basically thinking if monoW or monoU or UB builds are better. I'm still leaning for UB these days. All variants lose to hate and Deed, just the deck's only bad matchups.

I've decided that this deck is going to be a niche deck, akin to Dredge/Affinity. You slug it out when no one runs narrow artifact hate or Pernicious Deed, otherwise uphill battles are not worth it. I've full confidence that aside from narrow hate cards, the deck is well positioned to take on quite a number of decks out there. I'm going to work more on the UB build because I feel that mono U is much consistent, but it can't get itself out of situations where UB could.

[whiley85]

Hi,
I read this thread a few weeks ago and thought this deck has a great potential. It does so much against all that tier decks that are played atm, so I decided to bring it to a local 34 man tourney last sunday. I went 4-2 with the UB version because of a missplay in the 3rd game. Could have been 5-1 otherwise.
I'll post my decklist later due to some changes that change the whole gameplay of the deck in my opinion.
When I playtested the U version and the UB version, I realized that U without Tezz and Abyss is much more explosive. In most cases you are the aggressor and put pressure on the table.
The UB version is more reactive with playing bombs such as Tezz and Abyss.
The UB version has even maindeck a lot of outs against so many decks but I felt to biuld the manabase more consistently.
I cut all the colorless lands beside tomb and city and also cut mox diamonds to a 1of beside 4 opals.
You never ever want so see your bombs in hand not able to cast so I went with U River and Glimmervoid in a 3/2 split. Mox diamond makes you one turn faster for 1 card less. I felt that this acceleration is not worth in the UB build.
If I find time soon I'll post the decklist and a little report of my matches.
Just want to say I even won against Null rod. It hit the table 2 times and I won both of them due to the manabase.

[GGoober]

hey congrats!

Post #173 showed my intentions on what you were describing as well i.e. if we want to play UB, we need more lands, and consistent ability to cast 4cmc bombs on turn 2-3 with little resistance. The move is to play 3-4 UB lands that are not artifact lands (I opt for Underground River over Seas because you don't want to give free wins to Merfolks when it's a favorable matchup)



Here's my latest list for UB

Lands: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Underground River

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Dudes: 19
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem

Lockpieces: 6
4 Chalice
2 Crucible of Worlds

Bombs: 6
3 Tezzeret
3 Cranial Plating

SB:
2 Abyss
3 Perish
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Sphere of Resistance/Trinisphere (for 5 thorn effect)
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Umezawa's Jitte


That was my list a month ago which I didn't have time or testing to work with the past two weeks so I'd be very interested to see yours, and how you would combat Deed/Rods/EFlux. I know the problem can be relieved by playing more non-artifact UB lands. But at that point, some cards will be weakened (Champion/Opals/Master), but that's a tradeoff to support Tezz and the Abyss. If you opt for more UB non-artifact lands, playing Jace could also be an option. I do hope that your strategy doesn't involve cutting the 'aggressive' cards in the deck e.g. Golem/Champion/Master, because that wouuld tend the deck to go too controllish and into a Planeswalker Stax build, which would play entirely very differently. You are very right about monoU being much more aggressive, and 3 weeks ago, I tested monoU with Porcelain Legionaire and had some promising results. I wasn't too happy with the fact I have no outs other than smashing face. UB you can win with Tezz or force them to be locked under Abyss if both sides can't really win and eventually you bring out a Tezz and win.

[whiley85]

Here's my decklist:



4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Underground River
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Opal
2 The Abyss
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Glimmervoid
2 Arcbound Ravager
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
2 Etched Champion
4 Steel Overseer
1 Mox Diamond
SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Winter Orb
SB: 4 Perish
SB: 3 Rushing River


short tourney summary (excuse me for my bad english):
Match 1 (UB Reanimator, 2-0)
G1: I was on the play and he played careful study discarding big guys. I played Chalice for 1 and slammed him to 0 with some golems.
G2: He reanimates Iona being at low life and choosing blue. I had overseer and a champ with metalcraft on the table with a lot of useless artifacts due to null rod but also enough nonartifact lands. I attacked with champ and played the abyss (L'abisso sounds much cooler) which he responded with double brainstorm, fetching and force. He didn't realize that I could go for lethal next turn and so I did.

Match 2 (Elvish combo with Staff and Emrakul, 2-1)
G1 he combos turn 3 with crossroads, priest and 100000 elves + emrakul hardcast.
G2 I hold a hand with double opal but also ravager. Turn 2 I have great acceleration thanks to opal-> sac-> opal and bring down l'abisso. He can't spread that fast so golem does his job.
G3 L'abisso plus perish do what they should with elves. gg

Match 3 (painterstone with morphboard Show'N'Tell Emrakul, 1-2)
G1 I did the missplay. I realize what he is playing so I tried to be fast with disruption + beatstick. I had a golem with jitte online + overseer pumping golem. Before my last turn he blocked my golem with painter and played trinket mage in his turn searching his combo. On my turn I goldfished ravager and was happy cause I can go for lethal. I sacced 2 vaults and ravager pumping golem who removed mage with jitte in order to go for victory. Then I see that 1 dmg was missing to kill him but dmg was already dealt. I could have sacced jitte for win but missplayed very hard.
G2 Chalice for 1 and 0 plus golems + master = gg.
G3 I wasnt prepared for emrakul and boarded out my metamorphs...

Match 4 (GW aggro, 2-1)
G1 I hold a bad hand with double ravager and draw just all 4 cities. I have to overpace with a huge drawback and loose when he stabilizes his board.
G2 Turn 2 null rod makes him smile but me even more when a 5/5 jitte goes for lethal a few turns later. Thanks Tezz! Your such a powerhouse all day!
G3 was close and l'abisso made the difference. He gripped my lands and played revoker on my mox. I stucked with 3 mana and abyss in my hand. When he felt comfortable he attacked with KotR and equipped revoker. Thanks to my master he made my revoker big enough to trade with his revoker. On my turn I smashed l'abisso in his face followed by another master next turn. He showed me his hand with 7(!) cmc1 cards. Chalice did so many games till now. Nearly every round you shut down opponents removal completely.

Match 5 (GW aggro, 2-0)
G1 + G2 my dudes were faster and bigger than his.

Match 6 (TA with confidant + SB deed, 0-2)
G1 I hold a risky hand with 4 lands. He smothers my metamorphed goyf and played hymn. I loose every business and draw more land.
G2 after another hymn steeling my business a 7/8 Goyf stalls 2 Golems, I topdecked a champ and want to kill him slowly. He finds 5 mana for gripping one golem... He plays deed and I decide to keep my 2nd champ in hand. He played very very well and activates deed for 0 so my champ looses his protection, then smothers it and forced me to block with my golem. After all he thoughtseizes my champ in hand. Should have played so he had to sweep the whole board...

All in all the deck performed well and had often good answers to various decks.
I felt comfortable with the stable manabase for my colored bombs. One time I saw mox diamond but didn't use it cause speed was not necessary in that moment and I had to fear null rod postboard.
Ravager did nice combat tricks and makes your opals boost up even more.
I had the feeling that overseer is a bit to slow in some cases. I think Legionaire would have been better. The role to stop aggro makes l'abisso 100x better, this card was so amazing that it deserves a third slot. Same is for Tezz. He makes wins possible on his own.
Master+Golem are pure pressure + golem slows your opponent excellently down.
With so many must counters you don't have to fear forces or dazes. The drawback hurts them even more when you keep on laying business on the table.
Champ is a bit week without a plating and is not worth it in my opinion when you dont play much equipment. Chalice protects ALL of your beatsticks with a better clock as well.
Masticore was a funny one of and never saw play. He could be good though because he can be aggro and can be control. I wanted to be as much flexible as possible switching from aggro to control mode immediately. That worked just fine. The high amount of cmc4 spells is not wrong in my opinion. I was constantly able to cast them turn 2-3.
Recommendations are welcome

[GGoober]

Nice report!

I think your ability being able to cast 4cmc spells without too much resistance is tied to the matchups you played. In general, once you start meeting a field of discard/Hymns/Wastelands, it really starts hurting Stompy that they are sitting with dead cards in hand when you can't cast things. Your list runs 21 lands, a little scary for my taste. I still have problems with 23 lands these days even against Wastelands. The thing is a Wasteland on your City/Tomb hurts much more than your Wasteland on theirs.

Ravager looks interesting in the list, and I'll agree with you Overseer is hit or miss these days. Against relevant matchups with no removal or tend to want to win with 8 creatures that are big, the Overseer makes for stronger Golems/Masters/Revokers/Champions. You mentioned that Etched Champion was weak in your list and I can fully see why. Cutting Platings definitely diminish the power of Champion. However, since I think it makes sense for the UB list to cut Inkmoth (due to color consistency), cutting Plating makes a little sense without a density of Inkmoth + Champion. I would still advice to keep Champions. It's your only way to consistently match against GWx decks by blocking their big dudes and stall until you get Perish/Abyss. Champion allows you to force them to overextend, because they have to be up on another creature to swing in. Then you just Perish them.

Sounds like Abyss is doing what it's supposed to do against non-artifact aggro: pure ownage.

In the past, before we worked on UB builds, Elves was a horrendous matchup. I'm not as worried anymore with Perish + Abyss. Did you end up using Rushing Rivers to good measures? Against decks with hate considering you have a pretty stable manabase to actually play Rushing River? I don't agree with the Masticore simply because it's hard to keep it alive in this deck, unless you have an online Tezz (which means you should win the game :P)

Nice list though, and definitely looks good towards optimizing our existing lists. Based on your report and reading your matchups etc, I think the list I will be testing will be:

LANDS: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
2 Underground River
4 Wasteland

Creatures: 21
4 Porcelain Legionaire
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Master of Etherium
3 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem

Accelerants: 5
3 Mox Opal (I wouldn't play 4-1 split since I'm not playing Ravagers)
2 Mox Diamond

Bombs: 11
4 Chalice of the Void
2 The Abyss
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Umezawa's Jitte


SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Winter Orb/Ratchet Bomb (flex slot)
SB: 4 Perish
SB: 3 Rushing River

The main changes from a philosophical/abstract standpoint is: For a UB build (unlike the monoU build), we have to cut Inkmoth to allow for very consistent casting of Tezz 2.0. This diminishes the power of Plating since Plating was great on evasive Inkmoth/Champion. We now cut Plating since we only play 3-4 Champions, and we fit in 2 Jittes, which is universally good against many decks (particularly tribal), and due to the early game stablizing and requirements on a good defensive position, we try to squeeze in Legionaire instead of Overseer. Legionaire now happens to work great with Jitte. The life loss from Legionaire and Tombs is offseted with some Jittes, but the tweaking of the manabase moving away from Inkmoth to colored non-artifact lands, in particularly glimmervoid (usually sustained in this deck unless Deed is online, but we lose most things anyway when Deed is online) which produces W can make casting Tezz/Abyss/Legionaire with greater ease.

I don't know why I didn't think about Glimmervoids over Underground River... Glimmervoid should be easily sustained in this deck. I cut down -2 Vault and +2 Glimmervoid since the only way Glimmervoid is bad is when Deed hits play, to which Vaults get destroyed by Deed anyway. Glimmervoid is much stronger than Vault against Rod/EFlux hate cards.

I have kept the Wastelands because it is very good in the deck/format. Many decks automatically lose in short time to Golem + Wasteland (2 turn tempo advantage, which also means 10 free damage usually).

Let me know what you think I think this is turning into something more optimized. There's going to be 2-3 styles to Steel STompy. The monoU build that is aggro-aggressive and has a strong edge against aggro decks, while the UB build with more bombs that struggles a little against aggro decks but when it stabilizes and casts out bombs, can win more matchups and has a better chance against matchups that are otherwise unwinnable (Moat/Humility/Ebridge)

[ThoSha]

I dont have time writing big columns, but cutting Cranial Plating is TERRIBLY wrong.
Even with the latest changes you cant cut the only broken card that makes Artefact Decks so much more powerful than any other Aggro Deck.

On Steel Overseer: I went 3-2 last tournament facing 2 Merfolk players and i must say that Overseer is really awesome in this matchup. While the new 3/1 dude seems nice with first strike, he doesnt improve this matchup like 1st turn overseer does. Most wont even counter it because of you big business stuff. I suggest running Revoker in the sideboard and still playing Overseer, it can be really worth it.

[Greenpoe]

On Steel Overseer: I went 3-2 last tournament facing 2 Merfolk players and i must say that Overseer is really awesome in this matchup. While the new 3/1 dude seems nice with first strike, he doesnt improve this matchup like 1st turn overseer does. Most wont even counter it because of you big business stuff. I suggest running Revoker in the sideboard and still playing Overseer, it can be really worth it.

I agree. Before Tezz came out, I ran Steel Overseer in Affinity and he always wrecked Merfolk. They could put down some lords, but Steel Overseer gave a lord effect every turn. Overseer turns those little Revokers into serious threats.

[JaredDS]

3-2 vs Merfolk seems real bad with this deck. In my testing I am destroying preboard games while postboard games are closer due to Energy flux which is basically an autowin for them. I am about 75-80% preboard vs merfolk, and closer to 60% postboard depending on how many energy fluxes they have and if they draw them. Porcelain legionaire is basically the best creature in the deck in this matchup.



On Steel Overseer: I went 3-2 last tournament facing 2 Merfolk players and i must say that Overseer is really awesome in this matchup. While the new 3/1 dude seems nice with first strike, he doesnt improve this matchup like 1st turn overseer does. Most wont even counter it because of you big business stuff. I suggest running Revoker in the sideboard and still playing Overseer, it can be really worth it.


He improves this matchup a lot more then you think if you drop him turn one they generally cannot get their guys bigger then 3 power until turn 4-5 which means he has taken out half their life total, thats assuming you don't draw any equipment, which makes him effectively impossible to block.

There are a number of possible starting hands where overseer can be worse. Say you have 3 creatures total in the first 10 cards of your deck (about average since we run 20 creatures in 60). If you curve overseer into master of eitherium into lodestone golem for example there are a # of merfolk draws that can ruin this with counters. Say daze on master, force on lodestone. Leaving you with just an overseer in play. On the other hand Legionaire can consistently attack and do a ton of damage while overseer is just pumping your guys. He is significantly faster and works on his own which can matter a lot vs decks with a lot of countermagic or removal.

Thats said, I play both. I think maindeck revokers are a bad idea. Yes its important to have good answers to Deed and they are solid vs merfolk but they are also dead in some matchups. More important than anything else unless you know your opponents deck playing revoker turn 1 sucks ass yet you often have to do it for curve considerations. There are decks in legacy that can disguise what they are on turn 1 so even on the draw he can be tough. Versus vial, deed, jace he is a great card but I cannot understand mainboarding him at all after testing. Versus Team america, non-deed landstill, Zoo (just gets burned), any bant deck (just turns off pridemage), dredge, junk... he is bad. To me this is the definition of a non-maindeckable card. I run 4 legionaire, 3 overseer and wouldn't change it for the world. I have 4 revokers in my board and bring them in when necessary.

I am interested also what people think of playing pithing needle over him. One of the first things my opponents side out is their mental missteps meaning needle is only forceable unless they bring the missteps back in. Also, once in play its much more difficult to remove unlike revoker which can be killed by all removal spells or bounced with jace. I get the nombo with chalice of the void but think I may give it a test run anyways. Thoughts or is this insane?

[JaredDS]

Nice report!

I think your ability being able to cast 4cmc spells without too much resistance is tied to the matchups you played. In general, once you start meeting a field of discard/Hymns/Wastelands, it really starts hurting Stompy that they are sitting with dead cards in hand when you can't cast things. Your list runs 21 lands, a little scary for my taste. I still have problems with 23 lands these days even against Wastelands. The thing is a Wasteland on your City/Tomb hurts much more than your Wasteland on theirs.
[quote]
I would still advice to keep Champions. It's your only way to consistently match against GWx decks by blocking their big dudes and stall until you get Perish/Abyss. Champion allows you to force them to overextend, because they have to be up on another creature to swing in. Then you just Perish them.


I have not found this to be the case. I tested 6 games vs the GP winning deck this evening and went 5-1. Yes knight and gofy can be big but so can master of etherium, lodestone golem, etched champion, metamorph, any guy with an equip. My experience was our guys are bigger then theirs.


LANDS: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
2 Underground River
4 Wasteland


I like glimmervoid but wouldn't go below 8 artifact lands yes they can be a liablity but they also turn on mox opal much earlier in the game which can be key.



Creatures: 21
4 Porcelain Legionaire
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Master of Etherium
3 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem


Even with 0 equipment I wouldn't cut an etched champion. There are decks where he is an autowin.



Accelerants: 5
3 Mox Opal (I wouldn't play 4-1 split since I'm not playing Ravagers)
2 Mox Diamond


I would go to 2 mox opal before I went to 2 diamond. City, Tomb, Mox Diamond provide the best starts since they let you start dropping cards turn 1. Opal usually doesn't.



Bombs: 11
4 Chalice of the Void
2 The Abyss
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Umezawa's Jitte


Convince me on maindeck Abyss. I tested it a good bit so far and yes it basically can win you the game vs a lot of creature decks. But a lot of decks in legacy aren't creature decks, it costs 4 which means its tough to resolve sometimes vs decks with waste and it can be dead vs things like affinity. If we are going to run maindeck removal I would think dismember would be a much better choice.



SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Winter Orb/Ratchet Bomb (flex slot)
SB: 4 Perish
SB: 3 Rushing River


I really dont get why we need 4! perish and don't understand the rushing river. Null rod is ok versus us but hardly gamebreaking, so basically I'm looking to bounce jace, deed, equipment, energy flux? Convince me what matchups I am bringing this in for and why its so important. I would rather run a few more blue cards main and bring force of wills in from the board instead.



The main changes from a philosophical/abstract standpoint is: For a UB build (unlike the monoU build), we have to cut Inkmoth to allow for very consistent casting of Tezz 2.0. This diminishes the power of Plating since Plating was great on evasive Inkmoth/Champion. We now cut Plating since we only play 3-4 Champions, and we fit in 2 Jittes, which is universally good against many decks (particularly tribal), and due to the early game stablizing and requirements on a good defensive position, we try to squeeze in Legionaire instead of Overseer. Legionaire now happens to work great with Jitte. The life loss from Legionaire and Tombs is offseted with some Jittes, but the tweaking of the manabase moving away from Inkmoth to colored non-artifact lands, in particularly glimmervoid (usually sustained in this deck unless Deed is online, but we lose most things anyway when Deed is online) which produces W can make casting Tezz/Abyss/Legionaire with greater ease.


I run 2 plating, 1 jitte, 1 sword of fire and ice (probably becoming a plating or jitte) and I have to say I think around 3-4 equips is the right # and I dont think it matters much what they are. Yes plating can be a beating and it increases your clock a lot so I like it but I think 4 is too many because jitte is basically just better in every creature matchup.

[whiley85]

There are a number of possible starting hands where overseer can be worse. Say you have 3 creatures total in the first 10 cards of your deck (about average since we run 20 creatures in 60). If you curve overseer into master of eitherium into lodestone golem for example there are a # of merfolk draws that can ruin this with counters. Say daze on master, force on lodestone. Leaving you with just an overseer in play. On the other hand Legionaire can consistently attack and do a ton of damage while overseer is just pumping your guys. He is significantly faster and works on his own which can matter a lot vs decks with a lot of countermagic or removal.

Thats said, I play both. I think maindeck revokers are a bad idea. Yes its important to have good answers to Deed and they are solid vs merfolk but they are also dead in some matchups. More important than anything else unless you know your opponents deck playing revoker turn 1 sucks ass yet you often have to do it for curve considerations. There are decks in legacy that can disguise what they are on turn 1 so even on the draw he can be tough. Versus vial, deed, jace he is a great card but I cannot understand mainboarding him at all after testing. Versus Team america, non-deed landstill, Zoo (just gets burned), any bant deck (just turns off pridemage), dredge, junk... he is bad. To me this is the definition of a non-maindeckable card. I run 4 legionaire, 3 overseer and wouldn't change it for the world. I have 4 revokers in my board and bring them in when necessary.


Totally agree with legionaire since I had the same thoughts. I don't agree with your opinion of revoker. First you can't see him as a turn 1 drop despite of its cost. I personally had a lot more matches in which i wished a revoker in hand than not. He can be pure tempo protecting your big guys from sweeping abilities or removal like pridemage. He additionally can beat ass too.


I have not found this to be the case. I tested 6 games vs the GP winning deck this evening and went 5-1. Yes knight and gofy can be big but so can master of etherium, lodestone golem, etched champion, metamorph, any guy with an equip. My experience was our guys are bigger then theirs.

totally agree


I like glimmervoid but wouldn't go below 8 artifact lands yes they can be a liablity but they also turn on mox opal much earlier in the game which can be key.

totally agree

Where would a 2/2 Champ be an autowin?
To your opinion to abyss: Yes it is really good vs creature decks.
Vs non creature decks, I don't know as much as with them, you already have a great matchup due to chalice, golem, revoker, thorns in sb (is this really worth it waste 4 slots?) In those matches 1 dead card in hand doesn't loose you the game.
You really have bombs for any kind of deck I think.

I try cutting all the mox diamonds since I really don't like card disadvantage. I always want that great power 9 mox which usually goes online turn 2. You're right with a little less explosivness though (in MonoU I would always play diamonds)

Hence I play a 4of opals I tried to find a solution to suffer from the copies in hand. Therfore the try with ravagers and masticore. Ravager has been really great and can be an instant pump for lethal what overseer can't in the midgame.
I will still give the new masticore a chance. He's the second best cmc4 creature in our deck. He can stall, he can shoot creatures, he can bring 8 dmg a turn to opponents face. You can support him without extra draw cause you don't have cast spells unless he's removed in most cases.
Your thoughts?

[GGoober]

Thosha, your Merfolk matchup should be at the very least 6:4 or better preboard. If they have Rods/Eflux, then it's not a Merfolks matchup but a matchup v.s. hate. I am well aware how strong Overseer is against this matchup. 3 weeks ago I took the monoU list with Legionaires posted last page and it was a beating against aggro decks. Most creatures in the format do not have a toughness of 4 until turn 3 (the only case I can think of is a 3/4 Goyf after they dazed your artifact creature or a 3/4 RWM on turn 2 off a Hierarch) but aside from that Legionaire does two things: it negates their combat for an entire turn and you can swing in, this gives you full turn of tempo in combat. The only drawback to Legionaire is playing against Lavamancers, but Overseer doesn't fair too well in this case too. Once Legionaire gets a single pump from Overseer or a single pump from Master, the combat maths gets hard for the opponents again. The current drawbacks to Legionares are:

1) If you don't have a Moxen white source, he can be extremely painful if you draw multiples and are forced to play them early (2 Legionaires paying 8 life is borderline decision, but they still swing in for 6, which will quickly close the gap, the issue becomes if my opponents are playing aggressive decks e.g. Merfolks/Zoo, then the 8 life could matter)

2) Not enough testing or optimization. Ideally you want to run Legionaire in a shell with 3-4 equipments, a full set of 8 lords. Any less would make him less powerful (even though he's still amazing). The thing is, it becomes incredibly hard to cut cards. People are talking about cutting Revokers which I am open-minded to, but that card has done more good than bad things as far as I know. I do know that if we cut Overseers for Legionaire, Revokers get ALOT worse. In the past you will usually lead with a turn 1 Overseer, and sometimes play out Revokers and they can go the distance as 3/2 and 4/3s.

@Jared:

I was comfortable with 5-6 artifact lands in the monoU version. 8 is definitely all the more consistent, but 6 gives no problems. The issue isn't really on the artifact lands (they really matter), but the sequence on getting Sol-land 2cmc artifact turn 1 is the bottleneck. If you don't have this play, you will not be able to get Metalcraft turn 2 even if you played out 2 artifact lands for both turn (unless you draw Opal). I would probably up it back to 7 artifact lands. The thing is the lands are also the weakness of the deck, postboard hate really ruins the deck if you go for an affinity manabase.

@Mox Diamond v.s. Opal. I understand your point, but I would in everyway still play more Opals than Diamonds. Having the ability to go turn 1 2cmc spells without a sol land is valuable but for most parts, I have just been mulling slow hands i.e. without Sol lands away. Diamond is a great card, but Opal is stronger. There are a ton of 2cmc drops the deck has which has been tweaked to lean away from 3cmc spells and increase the 2cmc spells to facilitate turn 2-3 metalcraft. I won't be playing a 2-3 Opal/Diamond split but if I'm forced to play 3 Diamonds, I'll be opting for a 3-3 split cutting some other card. Opal is one of the best cards in the deck, and IMO is much more powerful than Diamond. There is no card disadvantage to Opal, which is huge.

@maindeck Abyss. I used to put it in the SB, but Legacy is primarily aggro-based these days. If you do meet a matchup that is non-aggro, then it's good for you! Steel Stompy has an inbuilt favorable matchup against non-aggro decks, it has always been aggro decks that have been the harder matchup (Bant/Zoo/Goblins/Black-based deck/Junk)

I would probably have to cut the 4th Perish given the 2 Abyss. You are probably right that 4 is overkill given that we have Metamorph + Perish + Jitte these days.

The biggest challenge is always:

What card do you cut to fit in all the things you are mentioning: 4th Champion, 3 more equipments. The monoU version has no problems with card slots except the debate between Overseer/Legionaire/Revoker. 3week ago, list I ran a 3/3/3 split which ran very smooth. The main challenge for the UB build is what to cut. There are too many good spells/bombs in the UB build. Also, since this deck was primarily built on synergy and interactions with every card in the deck, cutting cards tend to weaken other cards e.g. in my list posted above, I've weakened my Champions and speed with the deck (no platings), but the drawback to that is getting to play 3 Tezz + 2 Abyss. Whether it's worth it? I don't know yet, need to test. The thing is I was trying to keep the power of the cards still fairly high, since I lost Platings in the above list, I had to have some form of good equipment e.g. Jitte to make up for it. But Jitte on just Champion doesn't seem as strong as initial lists with Platings, so I opted for 4 more Legionaires (instead of Overseers) to give the entire package more synergy and power.

I won't be playing this deck today because I'm still waiting on Glimmervoids to come in but I hope to get some playtesting done today in between games.

[Greenpoe]

Is Tezz even worth it at all? By cutting Tezz, you make everything easier vs. opposing Wastelands and you get room for the 8-lords. The Revoker/Legionnaire/Overseer/MOE synergy lets you take a more aggro role and allowing the deck to win before Tezz would become relevant, or when Tezz would be win-more by that point anyway.

[whiley85]

Is Tezz even worth it at all? By cutting Tezz, you make everything easier vs. opposing Wastelands and you get room for the 8-lords. The Revoker/Legionnaire/Overseer/MOE synergy lets you take a more aggro role and allowing the deck to win before Tezz would become relevant, or when Tezz would be win-more by that point anyway.

In my opinion he's worth it all day. Opponents Wastelands are not that problem with the "new" manabase unless they're recurring and often gain you speed since he destroys your land already been tapped for action.
My experience says Tezz is 2UB for a 5/5 or 6/6 with MoE with haste and second turn its the same for 0! In my eyes this is aggro. When the board is stalled he can also make CA and has an alternate win con.

[JaredDS]

Guess I will just post my current list. There is still a lot of flux and I am open to a lot of changes. I have played a ton of games over the past few months and have a ton of experience so far with Merfolk, Junk, Zoo, Goblins, Landstill, Deedstill, Bant, NO Bant but haven't gotten many games in versus combo decks yet so still a lot more testing to go.

Land: 23
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea

Creatures: 21
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Master of Eitherium
4 Etched Champion
3 Lodestone Golem (really would like a 4th but dont like too many 4 drops)
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

Accel: 5
3 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal

Other: 11
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Jace, TMS
2 U. Jitte

Board:
1 Phyrexian Metamorph (locked in)
4 Thorn of Amythest (locked in)
4 Force of Will (testing this out)
2 Perish (not sure how many)
2 The Abyss (locked in)
2 Dismember (testing this out)

Not currently in board:
1 Phyrexian Revoker (seems good vs deed)
2 Pithing needle (been considering this for a while to combat deed)

Some questions I have:
1) Do we have enough combo hate? I have a lot of testing to do vs these matchups still before I make my decision. Interested in what other people's testing has shown
2) Is there a real way to deal with hate that isn't rushing river? I don't want bounce I want to remove their hate pieces. Been trying out Force of Will.
3) Should I be running plating over Jace? I like plating but have found there are just matchups where it's terrible I'm almost never sad to resolve turn 2 Jace unless its against Zoo. I really hate hands where I have too many equips and not enough creatures.

Basically the over version I have been considering is:
-3 Jace TMS, -1 Jitte (move to board), +3 cranial plating, +1 lodestone golem. Cut force of will from board for another anti-hate piece

Some changes I am considering:
1) Cutting Jace TMS, running some anti-hate piece over Force of Will
2) Cutting wasteland for inkmouth, and underground for glimmervoid
3) Moving Revoker to board for Overseer
4) Running 4 dismember between maindeck and board instead of the abyss

Sorry for the long post/lots of posts but have a few local legacy events coming up in the next few months and I want to win :). Really interested in all your thoughts.

[whiley85]

Some questions I have:
1) Do we have enough combo hate? I have a lot of testing to do vs these matchups still before I make my decision. Interested in what other people's testing has shown
2) Is there a real way to deal with hate that isn't rushing river? I don't want bounce I want to remove their hate pieces. Been trying out Force of Will.
3) Should I be running plating over Jace? I like plating but have found there are just matchups where it's terrible I'm almost never sad to resolve turn 2 Jace unless its against Zoo. I really hate hands where I have too many equips and not enough creatures.


1) With Thorns in board you should never have a problem with combo. Even preboard you got Chalice, Golem and Revokers.
2) with UB I donn't know any better solution but I feel comfortable with rushing river. It fits in the curve, is a pure tempo card and city can be a nice kicker when you play a land afterwards anyway. I think of strong locks i.e. moat, humility, e.bridge. Normally you need only one turn to win against it.
3) Jace is a mighty card and I never want to see him against me. I don't think its the best choice in steel stompy though. When I tap out for 4 mana, I want to win in the next 2 turns or force the opp to find a solution the next turn. Golem has the potential to do that, Tezz of course has it, but what does jace? He can bounce a creature for 4 mana, or he can brainstorm for 4 mana. He really becomes good in 3-4 turns so he's a heavy control card in my eyes. Tezz can be control AND aggro so can Golem. Without testing it I would say he doesn't fit well in steel stompy unless I need blue cards to support FoW. Every non artifact weakens Golem which is an auto 4 of in my opinion.

[Greenpoe]

Anyone else playing Confidant in the SB? I know he has almost synergy with the deck, but drawing cards just wins games, even if you are flipping 4-drops, those 4-drops will kill your opponent before Confidant's lifeloss does. I side him in more often than any other card.

[JaredDS]

My issue with rushing river is it doesn't help at all vs energy flux which is probably the #1 sideboard card in the #1 decktype in the format, Fish. Vs moat, humility, e. bridge we have outs tezzeret (and jace if you run him). And all these cards are pretty much regulated to a couple select control archtypes. Some of these control archtypes also run some energy flux in their board. Versus something like null rod 10 of our U sources are turned off (seat of the synod, mox opal, mox diamond), leaving us with 3-4ish lands to basically bounce the rod for a turn?

I don't get it.

[whiley85]

I didn't care about null rods since I ran 5 nonartifact sources of coloured mana at the tourney and I don't care with now running 6 sources (4 Glimmervoids and 2 rivers, cutting the last mox diamond). I don't know why I have to play wastelands weakening my manabase for opps wastelands.
Energy flux is a card I can't handle atm. I didn't play against it for long time cause null rod is the first choice in my meta. I could imagine running seal of cleansing in the board due to having 8 sources for W now. If you have a lot of fish in yours why you run useas btw?
Also here abyss can shine with a flux on the board paying every turn for your single legionaire to victory ^^

[zabuza]

Hi,
I think we are going on the wriong direction. In my testings champions and inkmoth nexus have been great so I think cutting them is a wrong movement.

I don´t think there is lot of people playing cards like energy flux or null rod in legacy because these cards are so specifical that only in a meta full of artifacts i could see it´s inclusion. Anyways we are an artifact deck (and because of that the great sinergy between it´s cards). If you try to cut them to solve this problem you are weakening your deck because masters are smaller, tezz deals less damage, platings pumps less,...

In my testings the nexus have been great. They provide an evasive creature that can win the game in an alternate way. I´ve faced with decks like "life" and the new melira´s decks and won because the infect is so great even if they have infinite life.

Champions are really good. they stall the game, are unblockable and with the platings finish the game in two turns.

Having in your deck these three cards make the deck better.

If you are afraid of flux play annul on your side. It would hurt rods, deeds, serenitys and fluxes which are the hate cards for this deck. Anyways if you want to play more UB lands I think you my consider playing Creeping Tar Pit cause althought it comes into play tapped you usually are not going to play it on the first turns and after that it can beat equipped with a plating ftw. Other options could be Darkslick Shores , Darkwater Catacombs, or another non-socking lands because more damage (beside of tombs and porcelain) could be lethal.

In my testings champion, inkmoth and craneal have been the best options winning the games so I don´t think cutting them is the eay to go.

[Greenpoe]

Energy Flux shows up because of Enlightened Tutor decks running it as a one-of. Null Rod, though, comes in a lot of SB's because it nullifies equipment, Vials, LED/Petal, Top, etc.

What do you guys think are the most important creatures in the deck? I ask because there's so much variation between what should be 3-ofs and what should be 4-ofs. I would say Lodestone Golem>Porcelain Legionnaire>Phyrexian Revoker>Steel Overseer>Master of Etherium>Etched Champion.
Porcelain Legionnaire is strong. Zoo's turn 1 Nacatl is scary, but how about a turn 1 Nacatl with first strike? He gives the deck a very quick clock, and he's a potent blocker. Etched Champion has seemed a tad underwhelming, but he's still good.

[GGoober]

@Zabuza: you are correct that Champion/Platig/Inkmoth are huge synergistic cards that win games, but the issue becomes for the UB-build, how do you incorporate a list without losing too much. Sadly, you gain a lot more from consistently casting Tezz/Abyss than Inkmoth in the UB list. However, for the monoU list, there is little question that you should be droping Plating/Inkmoth/Champion. I agree that no matter what, you shouldn't be dropping Champions to 3. The only thing that answer Champions that are commonly played are manlands and Jitte.

@Jared nice list!


Guess I will just post my current list. There is still a lot of flux and I am open to a lot of changes. I have played a ton of games over the past few months and have a ton of experience so far with Merfolk, Junk, Zoo, Goblins, Landstill, Deedstill, Bant, NO Bant but haven't gotten many games in versus combo decks yet so still a lot more testing to go.

Land: 23
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea

Creatures: 21
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Master of Eitherium
4 Etched Champion
3 Lodestone Golem (really would like a 4th but dont like too many 4 drops)
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

Accel: 5
3 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal

Other: 11
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Jace, TMS
2 U. Jitte

Board:
1 Phyrexian Metamorph (locked in)
4 Thorn of Amythest (locked in)
4 Force of Will (testing this out)
2 Perish (not sure how many)
2 The Abyss (locked in)
2 Dismember (testing this out)

Not currently in board:
1 Phyrexian Revoker (seems good vs deed)
2 Pithing needle (been considering this for a while to combat deed)



I would drop Jace in your list. Jace is good, but when you compare him to Tezz, there is no way that Jace beats Tezz in any possible way except for bouncing (which sucks because he's not netting loyalty to kill your opponents). Tezz is going to go +1 and win the next turn (since you can just alpha strike for the remaining hp). And Tezz's +1 is infinitely better than Jstorming. It scrys off 5 for the best card while Jstorm doesn't really help filter through 'bad' cards. If you want the 4-5 Planeswalker, it should be 4 Tezz. Drawing multiple isn't an issue because it's a card that wins you the game when you play him.

With 3 Jace freed out, I'll opt for the 24th land, and 2 more dudes or whatever you seem fit.



Some questions I have:
1) Do we have enough combo hate? I have a lot of testing to do vs these matchups still before I make my decision. Interested in what other people's testing has shown
2) Is there a real way to deal with hate that isn't rushing river? I don't want bounce I want to remove their hate pieces. Been trying out Force of Will.
3) Should I be running plating over Jace? I like plating but have found there are just matchups where it's terrible I'm almost never sad to resolve turn 2 Jace unless its against Zoo. I really hate hands where I have too many equips and not enough creatures.


1) Maindeck Golem + Wasteland + Chalice is not too favored against combo (40-60 for them), but if you do get turn 2 golem, it could win you games right there. Postboard, they have to fight through Golem + wasteland + Chalice + Thorn (with 12 cards playable off turn 1: Wasteland/Chalice/Thorn). The combination of Thorn/Waste/Golem makes it a lot harder for combo to recover than trinisphere where they can just hit 3 lands and still win. Postboard is most definitely (70-30 for you).

2) The reason I suggested Rushing River in the previous posts was because there's really no other good way to remove hate outside of Oblivion Ring (white splash) or Grip (green splash), both colors that can't offer much considering we are shifting to playing UB colors. Ratchet Bomb is a good out but does nothing against artifact hate. Rushing River doesn't solve the problem but most of the time, I am able to alpha strike in situations where my opponents pull up hate cards. This deck has a fast clock with Masters/Golem and one more turn usually makes a big difference. however, River is probably weaker if you don't play with Platings. River is also capable of dealing with 2 Permanents. In case control games drag on long where they get 2 hate-piece online, River is relevant here. River is also really good against Team America or decks where you sometimes need to bounce opposing creatures to swing in for wins (creature 'removal'). If you have another suggestion to deal with hate-cards that's that Rushing River, let me know. I haven't been able to think of one yet.

3) See comments on Tezz v.s. Jace. I would play 4 Tezz before playing with any Jace. If there's extra Jace, you can run it, but I think I'll still prefer Golem/Plating before Jace (assuming you maxed 4 Tezz). But maybe 4 Tezz/2 Jace could be a strong configuration. Then this deck basically becomes aggro Planeswalker Stax :P




Basically the over version I have been considering is:
-3 Jace TMS, -1 Jitte (move to board), +3 cranial plating, +1 lodestone golem. Cut force of will from board for another anti-hate piece

Some changes I am considering:
1) Cutting Jace TMS, running some anti-hate piece over Force of Will
2) Cutting wasteland for inkmouth, and underground for glimmervoid
3) Moving Revoker to board for Overseer
4) Running 4 dismember between maindeck and board instead of the abyss

Sorry for the long post/lots of posts but have a few local legacy events coming up in the next few months and I want to win :). Really interested in all your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

1) maindeck River isn't bad, but I don't know what to cut, deck is super tight (what she said)
2) Wasteland cuts are wrong. This deck was primarily built to exploit tempo. The reason you're playing Stompy is inherently tempo exploitation when you get the broken starts. Wasteland is way stronger than Inkmoth. If you cut Wasteland, you weaken Golems, and you weaken the deck's ability to fight against combo/control and other decks that rely on 2cmc/3cmc creatures after you chaliced @1). You guys can try the list without wastelands, I'm sure it works fine but it'll play like most other Stompy decks where you can't sustain sphere locks. Cutting Wastelands also weaken your SB thorns against matchups that play 8 or less creatures (TA/combo/Stax/Enchantress/control/Tempo decks).
3) I am very open to this idea. I think this is the only way to solve the maindeck space issue. The reminder is: Steel Stompy has good matchup against combo/control and its weak matchups are really aggro decks. Revoker is great against GWx aggro decks but against any other aggro decks it's not too spetacular. I'm open to this idea on moving Revoker to the SB to streamline the maindeck against aggro decks (which seem to be the bulk of Legacy decks these days)
4) Dismember is 1-1 that makes you lose games because you paid 4 life on top of all the Ancient Tombs and damage from opponents by not having an early Master/Champion online. The Abyss is x-1 assymetrical unfairness that is harder to cast, but isn't too hard considering the stompy manabase. Abyss KILLS EVERYTHING!!! Sadly it's quite an expen$ive card, but definitely worth it if you have any copies lying around.

[GGoober]

Energy Flux shows up because of Enlightened Tutor decks running it as a one-of. Null Rod, though, comes in a lot of SB's because it nullifies equipment, Vials, LED/Petal, Top, etc.

What do you guys think are the most important creatures in the deck? I ask because there's so much variation between what should be 3-ofs and what should be 4-ofs. I would say Lodestone Golem>Porcelain Legionnaire>Phyrexian Revoker>Steel Overseer>Master of Etherium>Etched Champion.
Porcelain Legionnaire is strong. Zoo's turn 1 Nacatl is scary, but how about a turn 1 Nacatl with first strike? He gives the deck a very quick clock, and he's a potent blocker. Etched Champion has seemed a tad underwhelming, but he's still good.

Depends against which decks, but in general, Master/Champion are the most important.

1) Master is most important because it functions like a Goyf (except it's much bigger and pumps everything else). It's good for the reasons Goyf is good, Vanilla undercosted creature that wins games when opponents don't have removal. I always value a creature that wins games fast more than any other creature (this is coming from a control player's standpoint, i.e. if I can't remove it, I lose). Master is the big reason why you play an artifact Stompy deck v.s. something like Dragon Stompy/Elephant Stompy. Dragon Stompy pays 3 for Gathan Raiders that's a 5/5 with a condition or a 3R 3/3 Levelling to a 6/6. Contrast that to Master which is 3cmc and does much more than just being a 6+/6+

2) Champion is second most important because it's the temporal out to opposing fast 'goyfs'. Every turn you delay in the game is making your army more threatening (you have more Champions/Master, which demands them to grab more creatures), then every turn you delay means Overseer/Master/Abyss/Tezz has more turns to do more crazy shit. This is the main function of Champion, to give you a great defensive position which you would otherwise have lost games.

The other creatures are all really good situationally, but I believe the deck cannot function without Master/Champion.

Golems are great but 4cmc is the only drawback. But if you have resolved hands with Turn 1 Chalice/Overseer, Turn 2 Golem, Turn 3 Wasteland + something, most decks cannot recover. Golems are subpar on the draw, but are great when on the play (if you can get it turn 2, isn't too hard with Sol-lands and moxen/metalcraft). I usually board down to 3 Golems on the draw against aggro decks but keep 4 at all times on the play (and on the draw against non-aggro decks)

Legionaire is the recent creature that is AMAZING against aggro decks. It's still really strong against control/combo due to its fast unconditional clock. It is as good as Overseer against Merfolks. Most aggro decks in Legacy (if they don't have removal for Legionaire) cannot match a turn 1 Legionaire until turn 3 or later. Most people are inclined to cut Overseers for Legionaires but I think this is wrong. I think after much consideration, I am moving Revokers to the board. Revokers maybe the weakest creature in the deck. It's still an amazing creature for what it does (it often forces removal bait because it is neutering a card), but against decks that aren't relevant (primarily aggro decks), revokers are fairly weak. The combination of Legionaire + Master + Overseer is too good to pass. Every pump Legionaire gets, is another toughness opposing aggro decks have to attain, and since most decks play static P/T creatures (except Merfolks which can't outgrow Overseer), I think it's important to run Legionaire side by side with Oveerseer. Overseer is really the glue of the deck, making every other creature better. Most decks have to remove Overseer or they lose to it. If Overseer bites a removal, it's all good because everything else is a threat. I think the main reason I'm moving Revokers to the board is because my opponents have removed overseers leaving me with a 2/1 body that can't even defend :( Legionaire can at least still defend for a few turns.

The Revoker SB list that I'm going to test is:

LANDS: 24
4 Glimmervoid
2 Underground River
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland

Accelerants: 6
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Creatures: 20
3 Steel Overseer
3 Porcelain Legionaire
4 Master of Etherium
4 Etched Champion
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem

Others/bombs: 11
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 The Abyss

SB: 15
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Phyrexian Metamorph (flex slot)
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Perish
3 Rushing River

Metamorph for most parts is a gift, not a neccesity. It's a neccesity against Emrakul/Progenitus decks, but otherwise with the current maindeck, it's a reinforcer in the maindeck, not a primary condition for the deck.

[mrjumbo03]

Would you advocate for moving the Revokers to the side in the Mono-U lists as well?

[GGoober]

Probably not, what would you play over the Revokers in the monoU list? The last list i ran did a 3/3/3 Overseer/Revoker/Porcelain which worked decent. You could go up to 4 Overseer/4 legionaire but it means that you are going ALL out on the aggro route. I haven't tested Revoker SB but I'll intend to do so over the next few weeks if my glimmervoids come in :P

[zabuza]

I´m still thinking that not using craneal and inkmoth is a mistake ( i can give you lot of game's results in which these cards saved me). Anyways I hope testing goes right.

What about using annul on sideboard to combat : serenity, deed, rod, flux......

Another thing I´m not sue at all is why playing porcelain in a aggro format like legacy. I mean, you are going to lose 4 life (1/5 of your life) for playing a dude that any fanatic, lavamancer, bolt,.... can remove, and in my meta there is lot of zoo so I can´t play it at all.

[whiley85]

2) Champion is second most important because it's the temporal out to opposing fast 'goyfs'. Every turn you delay in the game is making your army more threatening (you have more Champions/Master, which demands them to grab more creatures), then every turn you delay means Overseer/Master/Abyss/Tezz has more turns to do more crazy shit. This is the main function of Champion, to give you a great defensive position which you would otherwise have lost games.


I almost agree with all of your points but not with the argument for champion.
He is almost unblockable and can stall like a champ but he's obviously a 2/2. Opponents often can't handle them but do they need?
In most matches Steel Stompy is on the offense. So I don't need a defender.
Against fast goyfs Metamorph does that job even better as being an artifact goyf with the chance to be bigger than opps goyf. Its so versaitle all in all.
With cutting plating for jitte in the UB list which I still think is the right choice, champ looses a lot of its power. You can't race with him alone. In addition jitte is used to be one turn slower than plating on the aggro route whereas jitte is quiet harder to handle.

On the other hand I will also test replacing revokers by overseers in the MD and putting revokers to the SB. But I'm still on the revokers side.

[JaredDS]

After reading all the replies to my earlier posts this is the list I intend to do some extensive testing with this week. I think the main problem matchups will end up being Zoo (40/60 big Zoo, very unfavorable goyf-sligh), Hive Mind, Painter's stone, BUG landstill and Dredge. Suggestions on how to improve these matchups are welcome. But getting to the point where the maindeck is pretty set. So not there yet on making this into an ultra-competitive deck but I feel I'm at the point where its solidly tier 2.

I have found merfolk, goblins, junk, Bant, g/w aggro, Team America, TES, and other random decks to range from favorable to extremely favorable.

Accel: 5
2 Mox Opal (hate drawing a 2nd
3 Mox Diamond

Other: 10
2 Cranial Plating
1 Jitte
3 Tezzeret Agent of Bolas
4 Chalice of the Void

Creatures: 22
4 Etched Champion
4 Porcelain Legionaire
3 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Eitherium
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

Land: 23
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Vault of Whispers
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid

Board:
4 Thorn of Amythest
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 The Abyss
3 Perish
2 Dismember
1 Jitte

Zoo:
I've found the less burn/removal they run the better we can do. Will always be a slightly unfavorable match but definitely winnable by sticking a chalice at 1 early or having them draw a hand thats removal light. Drawing etched champion/chalice is generally all that matters in these games.

Hive Mind
Highly unfavorable. Preboard we just don't have a lot of ways to interact unless they just go on the emerkal plan. Postboard they have things like firespout which can give them infinite time to go off. Yes it can be a draw reliant matchup on them drawing Hive Mind but when they do its generally time to scoop them up since they usually can get to 6 mana before we can kill them.

Painter's stone
Just have a faster clock then us and we dont have a ton of ways to interact. Sticking a chalice at 1 can be gamebreaking if they aren't running any answers but they should be. Thorn of amythest doesn't help much in this matchup as all their important cards are already very cheap and the only way we have to stop the combo is by dropping a revoker and hoping they have no answer which doesn't usually work.

BUG landstill
4x Deed backed up by other removal. We can get game 1 sometimes because they keep hands involving snare and misstep but revoker on deed only works when they cant kill it with other cards or Force it which I've found they usually can.

Dredge
Same old Dredge story. We have almost no way to turn off their Bridges and their clock is faster then ours and we aren't running any hate in our board. Sticking a chalice at 1 g1 can help a lot but I'm losing a lot more then I'm winning. The end.

In other matchups I've tested problems only come in postboard when they bring in hate or Deed.

Thoughts and suggestions about how to improve the deck beyond this are welcome. One of the things I've considered is running ravager over steel overseer. Ravager improves the Dredge match significantly on his own, can create a way faster clock vs combo when needed and helps us dodge removal vs Zoo.

Another is adding Meddling Mage to the board for the Painters, Hive Mind matchups as well as another out to Deed.

Thanks for all the comments guys, really feel like the deck is at a much better place compared to where I had it a few days ago.

[JaredDS]

Metamorph for most parts is a gift, not a neccesity. It's a neccesity against Emrakul/Progenitus decks, but otherwise with the current maindeck, it's a reinforcer in the maindeck, not a primary condition for the deck.

I disagree on this point. He copies the most important creature in a matchup. The most turn 3 scoops I get are from metamorph draws. Turn 1 chalice, into lodestone, into metamorph or turn 1 legionaire into etched champion, into metamorph copying etched champion. Or turn 1 legionaire, into master of eitherium, into metamorph copying master.

The redundancy he provides isn't a gift its a way to overwhelm an opponents removal package while providing an out to Prog/Emerkal at the same time. It's a way to improve a # of combo matchups without sacrificing almost anything from the maindeck. I think whenever you have a chance to do that in legacy you usually want to, in the same way cursecatcher is the nuts for merfolk because of all his does against combo metamorph is kind of the same.

Not counting the one time I beat painter's/grindstone by wastelanding him a couple times then copying a grindstone and always leaving 3 mana up to mill them in response to them milling me. Doubt that will happen again but man it was awesome.

[AlterEgo]

PainterStone:
Even better than a Revoker on Grindstone is Metamorphing it and mill them out. :P

Dredge:
I had no big problem fightning Dredge - but my version was mono-U and had the sideboard Crypts. Thorn can help a little, too.

[GGoober]

From my playtesting in the past and experiences:



Zoo:
I've found the less burn/removal they run the better we can do. Will always be a slightly unfavorable match but definitely winnable by sticking a chalice at 1 early or having them draw a hand thats removal light. Drawing etched champion/chalice is generally all that matters in these games.

Correct, Little Zoo is much orse than Big Zoo. Punishing Fire Zoo is probably your worst matchup. However, Little Zoo gets blown out more by Chalice@1. In the primer, I mention how this really depends on the die roll, and if you can get Chalice@1 or Champion, you should win this unless you draw and use too much Tombs. If you can't get Chalice/Champion fast, you lose.



Hive Mind
Highly unfavorable. Preboard we just don't have a lot of ways to interact unless they just go on the emerkal plan. Postboard they have things like firespout which can give them infinite time to go off. Yes it can be a draw reliant matchup on them drawing Hive Mind but when they do its generally time to scoop them up since they usually can get to 6 mana before we can kill them.

Really? I haven't played this but I'd imagine you have a lot more outs than you would think (Wasteland/Golem,Chalice@ZERO, Metamorph on Emrakul). Postboard bring in Thorns. I know show and Tell used to be a horrible matchup but with Metamorph, it's not autolose these days. Chalice@0 is a big benefit against this deck compared to regular Show and Tell decks which IMO are harder to beat.



Painter's stone
Just have a faster clock then us and we dont have a ton of ways to interact. Sticking a chalice at 1 can be gamebreaking if they aren't running any answers but they should be. Thorn of amythest doesn't help much in this matchup as all their important cards are already very cheap and the only way we have to stop the combo is by dropping a revoker and hoping they have no answer which doesn't usually work.

You are correct, They cannot beat a Chalice@1 if it resolves (at least you'll have enough time to kill them). Ratchet Bombs are good in this matchup (setting @2 is preferred but 1 does the job as well). I've playtested the Imperial Painter matchup more than the UR versions and IMO Imperial Painter is a harder matchup (they can get out of the Chalice lock with Jaya/Painter). These days, Painterstone packs Trinketmage for EE so it is not going to be as easy, but they are sacrificing speed for some answers, which is good for us.



BUG landstill
4x Deed backed up by other removal. We can get game 1 sometimes because they keep hands involving snare and misstep but revoker on deed only works when they cant kill it with other cards or Force it which I've found they usually can.

I can only imagine this game being very tough. However, postboard, if you have some Winter Orb, your prison effects should make it very taxing and you should steal some games.



Dredge
Same old Dredge story. We have almost no way to turn off their Bridges and their clock is faster then ours and we aren't running any hate in our board. Sticking a chalice at 1 g1 can help a lot but I'm losing a lot more then I'm winning. The end.

If you don't have ratchet Bombs in the SB, this will be hard. I've had 40-60 matchups against dredge postboard without any graveyard hate and just utilizing Ratchet Bombs and Thorns. Fast Golem/Wastelands/Sphere effects slow their clock by many many turns, enough for you to go the distance and get Jitte/Tezz online.



Thoughts and suggestions about how to improve the deck beyond this are welcome. One of the things I've considered is running ravager over steel overseer. Ravager improves the Dredge match significantly on his own, can create a way faster clock vs combo when needed and helps us dodge removal vs Zoo. In such a meta, Ravager is better than Overseers. If your meta consists of mostly control/Merfolks/no-Zoo, Overseer triumphs. I'm personally not a fan of Ravager since he makes Master/Jitte weaker, but I think moving away from the synergy of manlands+Overseers+creatures for the UB build, Ravager maybe a good option again. He's also a better answer to turn 1 Lackey for most parts.



Another is adding Meddling Mage to the board for the Painters, Hive Mind matchups as well as another out to Deed.

Thanks for all the comments guys, really feel like the deck is at a much better place compared to where I had it a few days ago.

Meddling Mage will be hard to cast, and generally not worth it. If you do want a splash, I would go with white for Oblivion Ring, it's a little slow against Painter and won't work against Hive Mind, but it hits hate, it gets Emrakul. But really, against Hive Mind, you just have to play a couple more games. Don't forget that mulliganing aggressively for the right hands against the matchup of concern is more important than keeping good hands don't do anything against that matchup.

[Admiral_Arzar]

@ Metalwalker: COTV @ Zero does NOTHING against Hive Mind. Chalice only counters the original spell that gets cast, not the copies. The end result is: you still lose, and now the Hive Mind player doesn't even have to pay for his pacts if for some reason you DON'T lose.

[GGoober]

Ah good point, the copy kills you. Lame. That deck is really cheesy, but man being kinda immune to Chalice and having 4Pon+4FoW maindeck protection seems pretty strong for a combo deck that dodges MM all day.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Ah good point, the copy kills you. Lame. That deck is really cheesy, but man being kinda immune to Chalice and having 4Pon+4FoW maindeck protection seems pretty strong for a combo deck that dodges MM all day.

I think the only hope in that matchup is to stack golems/thorns and hope that delays them a turn or two. Keep in mind that we can use moxen to pay off-color upkeeps if we can limit them to only one pact.

[JaredDS]

Ah good point, the copy kills you. Lame. That deck is really cheesy, but man being kinda immune to Chalice and having 4Pon+4FoW maindeck protection seems pretty strong for a combo deck that dodges MM all day.

Chalice @1 can still slow them down a lot since they run 4 brainstorm, 4 ponder, but I've found it difficult to keep them off 6 land since they run monolith and so many basics and show and tell as ways of cheating hte hive mind into play. A lot of games start out with them just dropping 4 lands into play, and playing an intuition or a show and tell and then me dying. Usually they are at low life but my clock is not fast enough.

Postboard with firespout its tough to get an efficient clock and your goal is to land revoker on monolith, and drop as many thorn and lodestone effects as possible. The deck doesn't run a ton of land so I've found you can just lock them out sometimes but not often enough.

Anyways kind of rambling so I'll stop lol. Seems like I need to take a 2nd look at winter orb, tanglewire/ratchet bomb like effects for my board.

[JaredDS]

New list I tested out tonight that worked very well for me. Let me know what you guys think. Still working on manabase/right equips/sideboard

Accel: 5
2 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond

Other: 11
1 Batterskull
2 Cranial Plating
1 Jitte
3 Tezzeret Agent of Bolas
4 Chalice of the Void

Creatures: 21
4 Etched Champion
4 Porcelain Legionaire
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Master of Eitherium
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

Land: 23
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid

Board:
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thorn of Amythest
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Perish
2 The Abyss

[whiley85]

I often played against Mystic Toolbox and never was afraid, cause they were too slow for ya. Batterskull is pure control and I understand this deck as aggro.
Also against mystic/batterskull Abyss shines, so it weakens your copies as well.
The manabase doesn't look like that consistent. But when you already play W maindeck, why no seal of cleansing for null rod/flux in SB?

[GGoober]

SFM is pretty decent in Stompy.dec if you can splash and consistently cast it. It's a form of card advantage that wins games. I feel that the abusive SFM lists in Legacy are the ones that can accelerate into SFM (Bant/Vial/Stompy). If you naturally cast SFM without accelerants, it's a little slow for the format but still solid.

I'm willing to test SFM but i'm not sure if you can support 3 colors consistently, and even if you drop to 2 colors, I'm doubtful SFM is more powerful than Tezz (both start going active on turn 2 assuming a turn 1 SFM and turn 2 Tezz, but Tezz wins the game much faster and gives more card advantage than Mystic).

It's interesting you play 3 colors, but first thing I'll consider is upping Mox Opal to 3. And probably force yourself to drop down some Seats to accomodate even more rainbow lands. However, doing so greatly weakens fast Metalcraft, which is part of the consistency issues in dropping artifact lands. I know that from testing, 6-7 artifact lands is good enough to support turn 2 Metalcraft if you can open with a Sol-land into a 2cmc artifact turn 1, followed by 2nd turn with Metalcraft on playing another artifact with either Mox/Opal.

Let me know how that testing goes. I think I'm liking Revokers in the SB from testing as well. The reason being Steel Stompy's weaker matchups are aggro decks, where Revoker doesn't have too much targets outside of Bant/Zoo (usually against Zoo he dies).

[JaredDS]

I'm working on the landbase for 3 colors definitely not perfect yet. I understand the apprehension behind wanting to go 3 colors and whether or not its really a good idea. Here is my thinking behind it. With the last 2 drop spot I'm looking to get a creature thats good against aggro, and stoneforge mystic is the best creature out there. stoneforge for batterskull forces them to have removal right away for the stoneforge and in this deck its very easy to hardcast a batterskull turn 3-4. A batterskull is pretty impossible to beat for most aggro decks out there and the 2 for 1 off of stoneforge does a great job of dealing with their early removal and letting you land your midrange creatures without having them just die.

I do need more testing for sure, but I feel he may be better then overseer/revoker just because of how well he shores up the aggro match. Whether its him or overseer the creature is going to get removed right away assuming they have it and stoneforge gives us a card after that removal.

Its also another creature that autowins us the merfolk match since they have no real way preboard to beat batterskull. Versus Bant outside of progenitus batterskull is just bigger then all their creatures and an etched champ+batterskull is game over. Also I like how batterskull provides an out to Deed/board sweepers since it costs 5 and you can bounce it back to your hand in response.

This also gives us the option of playing 1x a couple swords in the board for particular matchups as well as playing ethersworn canonist if we want to shore up the combo matchup.

I will be doing a bunch more testing today and come back with some results.

[JaredDS]

I often played against Mystic Toolbox and never was afraid, cause they were too slow for ya. Batterskull is pure control and I understand this deck as aggro.
Also against mystic/batterskull Abyss shines, so it weakens your copies as well.
The manabase doesn't look like that consistent. But when you already play W maindeck, why no seal of cleansing for null rod/flux in SB?

Yeah the manabase needs work. I am thinking I will have to go something like this:

4 Glimmervoid
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
1 Vault of Whispers
2 Scrubland
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

This gives us 13 W sources, 13 B sources and 14 U. Which I think is pretty solid.

Seal of Cleansing awesome and I didn't think of that I will definitely have 3 in my board and I really like how it provides a proactive answer to hate. Yes mystic toolbox is slow but they dont have AT, CoT, Mox Diamond and Mox Opal. This means hardcasting a batterskull early is much more realistic and it can shore up your games versus aggro significantly. It also provides more card advantage which in stompy is always good since you can burn out your hand quickly.

[ThoSha]

Anyone thought about cutting Chalice yet? If you go for the Mono U list it might be good post NPH now that everyone is cutting back on onedrops because of Misstep anyway. I know Chalice is great, but i haven't had much use out of it lately.
I tried this list out and it worked well in testing:

24lands+6 mox

4 steel overseer
4 porcelain legionaire
3 phyrexian revoker
4 etched champion
4 master of etherium
4 lodestone golem
4 cranial plating
2 jitte
1 crucible of worlds

sb
3 metamorph
4 thorn
3 rushing river
1 tangle wire
1 phyrexian revoker
3 ratchet bomb

It beats the shit out of aggro on paper and still taxes Control like it should.
Of course this has nothing to do anymore with regular Stompy, its just an Artifact Aggro deck that doesn't fold to Null Rod like Affinity.
Any suggestions?

[GGoober]

Hey Thosha, in your list, I'll move the Revoker to the SB and have the Chalice main. Chalice disrupts much better than Revoker, no arguments to that. Chalice not only provides some tempo advantage, but it also turns off your opponent's removal.

In fact, these days, EVERY deck seems to be playing MM, and actually either keeping the same cmc1 spells or upping them while playing WITH MM.

Other than that, the list looks solid for the monoU that you have there.

I was brainstorming and deckbuilding some variants to solve the 'inconsistency' issues with Steel Stompy (even though it is probably still the more consistent stompy variant out there), and I did a little analysis, followed by multiple (goldfished) games after I got home because I was primarily playing Dreadstalker last night with friends.

Check this list out:
4 Steel Overseer cmc2
4 Dark Confidant cmc2
4 Etched Champion cmc3
4 Master of Etherium cmc3
3 Metamorph cmc4
3 Lodestone Golem cmc4
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas cmc4
2 Umezawa's Jitte cmc2
4 Chalice of the Void cmc0
4 Mox Diamond cmc0 (4 Diamonds to get turn 1 bob more frequently)
2 Mox Opal cmc0
24 Lands cmc0

Lands consists of:
4 Glimmervoid
2 Underground River
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

AVG cmc of deck: 1.31




Compare this against:
JUNK:
4 Bob cmc2
4 Goyf cmc2
4 KotR cmc3
4 Thoughtseize cmc1
4 Hymn cmc2
4 Vindicate cmc3
4 StP cmc1
3 GSZ cmc1
3 TOP cmc1
1 Elspeth cmc4
3 Mox Diamond cmc0
22 lands cmc0

AVG: 1.1 (Junk is one of the best decks to play Bob with)



UWB Stoneblade
3 Clique cmc3
4 Dark Confidant cmc2
4 SFM cmc2
3 Jace cmc4
2 Batterskull cmc5
1 SoFF cmc3
1 Jitte cmc2
4 Brainstorm cmc1
4 FoW cmc5
4 MM cmc1
3 Spell Snare cmc1
4 StP cmc1
23 Lands cmc0

AVG cmc: 1.45 (this deck has been successful lately, but to be honest, it doesn't pair well with Bob in terms of average cmc, but it nullifies that with 4 Brainstorm and Batterskull lifelink)

Steel Stompy's AVG cmc is actually not that terrible considering that you have 4Chalice + 6 Mox that lowers the overall cmc of the deck. I gave Bob an experimental shot because of how powerful the card was when I played against Bob in all kinds of decks. Once Bob starts drawing a card, the game is swung heavily. For most parts, this list can run out a turn 1 Bob or protect Bob with Chalice, or at worst, Bob baits a removal that paves way to stronger creatures.

You can lower the CMC of the deck further if you decide to not play Metamorph maindeck (which I can't justify), but the analysis above shows you that Steel STompy, unlike other stompy variants, has a much lower curve (it's designed around 2cmc spells to maximize the amount of plays you can play out on turn 1 with/without a sol land).

I'm going to experiment with this build more. It's been pretty incredible, still retaining all the important bombs and strategy, but together with Bobs + Tezz, you are getting a card drawing compared to other builds. If we take a look at the creature base, we see that there are no 'bad' creatures. Every creature is either a must-answer and gives huge value:

1) Bob (can't argue with Bob)
2) Overseer (2cmc investment that makes your board retarded)
3) Etched Champion (defense/offense)
4) Master (best artifact creature with stompy manabase)
5) Metamorph (copies your Master/champion/lodestone/overseer, double overseer/master/lodestone is quite stupid in particular)
6) Lodestone Golem (very strong with Wastelands)

Lastly, I did give SFM a try in the deck (UBw with 2 Scrublands). It was decent, but I still run into mana issues (obviously if 12 lands are colorless lol). I felt that at the same cmc, Bob might not be as good as SFM in fetching jitte/batterskull/Plating to win/stabilize games, but at the same time, just drawing 1 card off bob and baiting 1 removal is totally worth the mana cost of 1B. If they don't draw the removal, they lose. I dropped to 3 Lodestones because of 3 Metamorph maindeck and with 3 Tezz in the UB build, you want to drop down on the 4cmc slots. I've moved Abyss to the SB for this build. Overall, I decided against SFM because UB is almost a must if you're intending to splash a color to the monoU build. It gives Perish/Tezz, which are worth much more than SFM. Tezz is completely unfair when he comes online (if you had already dealt 2-6 damage), his +1 into -4 kills an opponent immediately, pending Stifles.


Feel free to ask any question, but I'll recommend giving the list some playtesting. I've only done goldfished games so far, and about 70+ games of seeing how Bob flips cards in this deck, and surprisingly, you get a lot of 0cmc flips (you have a total of 34 zero cost cmc spells). If you do flip a Lodestone/Tezz/metamorph, then it's still great, because you got a big business spell off bob that they have to deal with. When bob is losing you life, your board is getting bigger faster, and there is always the increased chance of drawing Jitte/Tezz to gain a couple more life. For most parts, flipping Master/Champion/Overseer are all not bad things considering you have a stompy manabase that is casting out threats fast, and pairs nicely with the card draw from Bob. The mathematics is already provided above, and it shows that contrary to what our intuition tells us, we are reminded that Steel sTompy's curve is significantly lower than other stompy decks.

[Koby]

It's starting to look like AEther Vial might be a good idea in this deck with all the added creatures. I understand (and often feel) that it's underwhelming in such a deck. I do remember that there was a :u:-based Affinity Stompy build from last November that featured AEther Vial with the old Deep-Blue list that made everyone give it a strange look. It might be good to test it out either way - MM be damned.

[ThoSha]

@Metalwalker
I do understand your point with Chalice, but while actually playing this deck i was facing a shitload of jaces and stoneforge mystics recently, and Chalice did absolutely nothing for me in these matchups. Compared to Revoker its a real bad topdeck as the game goes on and it doesn't even catch counters that much(except 1st turn force on the play ofc)while Revoker gets amazing the longer the game lasts. I dont like Chalice anymore in this deck, as equally i dont like Tezzeret for mana inconsistance. Going for Abyss seems ok, but needing 2 colors in a stompy deck to actually cast 1 permanent sucks big time. =/ So many times I had Tezz on my hand with only a City/Tomb and just 1 Mox, while not drawing into another color source, ending up losing cause of card disadvantage where just another Legionaire would have gotten there.
So far I had much fun with the mono U list i posted, and i'll post some results soon.


Towards your new list it seems real gorgeous. I like the inclusion of Bob, as i faced problems getting all my stuff countered and playing from the top.
Please keep up the good work and let us know how this work out, i might give it a shot too. The only thing i still dont see is 3x Tezzeret: I would go with 3x Abyss or 2 Abyss and 1 Crucible all day over Tezz. He just lost my sympathy as mentioned. =P

[GGoober]

Yeah if your meta is a ton of Stoneblades, 4 Revoker main with 4 Metamorph is pretty funny. Adjust accordingly but in general, Chalice is just as powerful, if not more powerful than it used to be (since some decks are actually playing more cmc1 spells in addition to their own mental misstep to force things through).

Did you try Tezz with the 4 Glimmervoids + 2 Underground River + 4 Seat + 2 Vault + 6 mox configuration? It has been incredibly easier to cast Tezz with Glimmervoids (which also give you postboard answers to artifact hate if your playgroup is hating on you).

The monoU build is very straightforward, and just smashes face, primarily using Champion/Legionaire backed up by Overseer/Master/Equipments. Steel Stompy still suffers from the same problems other decks do though: If your opponents is on the play, draws Spell Snare/FoW/Wasteland, it's hard to beat them.

I think for most parts I'm leaning towards UB these days. I absolutely hate Bant (with NO) so Perish makes me happy :D (The perish plan is actually made better by the fact that you play Champions/metamorph on their Goyfs or on your Champions), forcing them to overextend if they want to swing in. I currently have some problems agaisnt cliques in Bant. A turn 2 Clique against us is devastating. It swings for 4, takes our play for turn 2 (which sadly is going to affect us for many other turns since Stompy really needs every card to do something).

If they print another Sol land that's better than Crystal Vein, I'll probably switch back to monoU but I'll tinker around with Bobs in the UB build for some time before deciding.

@Rukcus: I considered vial in the past (pre MM), making the deck go for a more aggro style very similar to Merfolks but without Counterspells. Back then I worked on a list with 4 Overseer + 4 Signal Pest + 4 Master with 4 Vial and it was pretty strong, but I didn't go further into developing it because pre MM, combo as still pretty popular and just having Wasteland/Lodestone/Revoker wasn't enough. now that MM is in the format, I didn't think about trying out Vial, because being MM-immune is a huge thing right now. Vial is pretty sick in the list though, because unlike other stompy builds with creatures with cmc all over the place, Steel Stompy is very 2-3cmc centric, which fits perfectly with Vial (refer to the Merfolks model). But I'm not sure if I want to gamble on having more broken starts with losing a turn 1 play that just ignores what your opponent is playing. I'm more than willing to adjust according to the meta, but given that MM is everywhere, killing every opponent's MM in game 1 seems more valuable to me, since you're playing Stompy, it's not like you have a terrible time casting your threats, outside of not drawing lands or getting Wastelanded (not-drawing lands always happen for me despite playing 24 lands).

Now, I'm more than open to try it though, having Vials instead of Chalice, because you can just bet that if they don't answer Vial, you are negating more than just 1cmc spells against blue decks, you're negating their ENTIRE deck, which is huge. I'll be willing to test it out, also seems good to get Bob/Overseer in play EOT for a fast draw/pump.

[ThoSha]

No, i actually played a configuration of 3 Vault, 4 Seat, 3 Mox Diamond, 3 Mox Opal and just 1 Underground River. I went for Darksteel Citadel now instead of Black sources, making us a bit more wasteland/deed proof.
Actually I didn't give up on the plan of Inkmoth Nexus w/ Platings, as it really wins games out of nowhere. I would never cut this gameplan just for Tezz.

As for the vial discussion, this SEEMS really good somehow: Imagine turn 1 Bob + Vial =D autowin somehow.

[whiley85]

I'm very interested in the SFM/Bob suggestions and their results, here are my doubts:
- Both are not 1st turn plays. The only way you can support 1st turn play is mox diamond. You probably don't have both cards in start hand very often. But both cards are strong and needn't to be played 1st turn. You just reduce the number of 1st turn plays in your deck.
- As a pro Abyss player, it really often had the oracle text: from now on I win, nonartifact creatures are the second best choice.
- SFM is a pure defense card, you always tutor for batterskull. BTW I can't follow the argument against deed. It's hard to bounce and cast again a batterskull after they destroyed your mana and your token by sweeping even for 0. SFM is control since it is very flexible. This flexibility often steals you one full turn. If you want jitte, play more jitte, if you want platings, play more platings.
- Mighty Bob needs no arguments and the average cmc is interesting. What I'm worried about: i.e. Stoneblade has nearly the same cmc, but with brainstorm and lifelink. We have tombs, legionaires, metamorphs... it really deserves testing. I can imagine that your lifecount sucks too often.
- When I feel I need draw in this deck, my first impression would be thoughtcast. Usually it says 2 cards for U, plays around chalice, golem and thorns. A perfect fit in my eyes.

[GGoober]

Whiley, I just pieced up a more optimized list. I had to make a lot of changes that were unexpected, but the change was as unexpected as cutting Inkmoth in the UB build, and how the deck has been evolving. Let me just say that with Bobs + Tezz, you now have a chance at topdecking Bob/Tezz and be in the game, or just drawing one early and forcing an opponent to have an answer or lose.

Here's my optimized list (still optimizing but I went through a lot of practice games to see what was needed and not needed in such a build)

Lands: 24
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Vault of Whispers
2 Underground River
4 Glimmervoid (this land has been pretty amazing. It sucks against artifact hate but artifact lands are bad against artifact hate)

Disruption: 4
4 Chalice of the Void

Accel: 6
4 Mox Diamond (I really love 3/3 split, but there is now morevalue to go turn 1 Bob/Chalice than before, also Bob will easily offset the card disadvantage from Diamond if he sticks, and flipping multiple opals is not as good as flipping multiple diamonds)
2 Opal

Creatures: 20
4 Dark Confidant
4 Steel Overseer (I tried Legionaire/Overseer/Revoker, Overseer still wins, I'll explain why: 12 Overseer/MAster/Metamorph allows you to really go all out on a lord strategy when you are delaying the board position and building up assymetrically with your lords and pushing opponents out of combat maths)
4 Champion
4 Master
4 Metamorph

Bombs: 6
3 Tezz
3 Jitte

SB:
2 Abyss
3 Perish
4 Thorn
3 Golem
3 Revoker
(Abyss/Thorn/Perish are flex slots depending on meta)

First off:
The average cmc of this optimized list is even lower: 1.23 (compared to a junk list of 1.11 and stoneblade of 1.45). I advise you guys to TEST the list, instead of theorizing, because it was very untuitive for me to come to the guts to test bob in this list. I had the idea but theorizing pushed me away from it since in theory stompy with Bob is a terrible idea.

Now, why hasn't bob been played in other stompy variants? Because unlike Steel Stompy, every other stompy deck in existence runs Chrome Mox, and is forced to be mono-colored. Splashing 2 colors in other stompy variants is difficult. They can run mox Diamond but they'll have to up the land count and decklists won't function as well. Steel Stompy is very lucky, to recently have powerful spells (Tezz) in the color U and B. We are also very lucky that this is a deck that cannot afford missing land drops (hence the high land count), and it is a Stompy variant that actually consists of a creature base that does a lot for a lower cmc compared to other stompy variants e.g. Master/Champion/Metamorph/Overseer are all very undercosted creatures for what they do. We are also very fortunate to have our accelerants actually providing mana of ANY color, allowing us to play with dual-color splash much easier than any other stompy variant. Now, the only other stompy variant that can splash and play bob is demon stompy, which is probably the weakest of all existing stompy builds, so that's out of the picture (not to mention they play way too many 4cmc spells, I played demon stompy so I know this).

It took me a little curiosity and actually doing some fast maths (5min) and over 100+ games to get a feel what bob does in the deck. It requires you to change gears a little. With Bob, you are a little more concerned about your mid-game, whether you can continue to fuel creatures to match your opponents, and have a mid-game plan where bob draws you into Jitte/Tezz to refuel some lost life from Tombs/Bob flips. With such a build, I realized that with combo being a little less prevalent these days, I moved Lodestones to the SB (I'll explain on the philosophy shortly), and focused very primarily on 3 creatures that win games for Steel Stompy: Champion, Master, Metamorph. Champion stall games, but what I realized the more I play, it is the sequence of Champion + Metamorph into another Champion or Masters + Overseer that win the game. With Bob, if he ever sticks, you will get a lot of games where you will keep drawing a mix of CHampion/Master/Metamorph.

After playing a ton of playtesting games, I know that Metamorph is completely important in this build. If you are dropping bob early, a Metamorph will allow you to copy their most aggressive creature so that you have a little defensive position while you set yourself up with Bob. What I noticed that this deck has a great ability of dropping Champion/Master/Metamorph which are great on the DEFENSE when they're summoning sick, and then when you swing in, they are great on the OFFENSE as well. This really stalls back opposing aggro. I realized that I should never drift away from full playsets of Champion/Master/Metamorph. These creatures allow you to develop a board and retard an opponent's attack phase, then you swing in and follow up with yet another creature.

Bob in this deck can be seen in 3 views:
1) If you get a turn 1/2 Bob that sticks, then your opponent loses soon (this is true for any deck playing Bob). This is how Bob is an unfair card in Legacy: you force your opponents to answer him or lose. In most cases, your opponents should have a FoW/StP for Bob, which brings me to the next point.
2) Bob in this deck benefits greatly from turn 1 Chalice@1 the same way aggro loam pushes Bobs to resolve against opponents. At this point, if you've Chaliced@1, your opponents spell snares/StP are turned off and they have to solely rely on FoW and less commonly played means to remove Bob (GFTT is more popular these days but that sucks against your entire deck lol)
3) The worst case scenario is Bob eating a removal, then that's 1 less removal for a big Master/Metamorph which are the true beaters that win you games. But your opponents always have to remove bob, because he'll just draw you more win-conditions.

When testing a ton of those games, what I realized was, the situation where you can lead with Chalice into Bob is pretty often. I did multiple games where I'm assuming opponents had no FoW for Chalice and removal for Bob, and did another set of games where my opponents out-tempo'd my every play. And I feel that the games where Bob sneaked in under Chalice or just coming in too fast with the STompy manabase while having other threats played out, are very well worth the inclusion.

What finally concluded me was: the list now has 7 ways to keep up with the game. It is unreal they printed Tezz 2.0. Tezz 2 used to be a little weaker because the manabase wasn't designed to support him. WE played the bare minimum (TEzz Affinity manabase) to support him. With the new manabase of 4 Glimmervoid + 4 Seat + 2 Vault + 2 /underground River + 6 moxes, Tezz has become much easier to cast.

I'll advice you guys to test out Bob. I've done quite a lot of testng and after a short break from playing this deck, I feel that I might actually have a shot again with this new list. One more thing to note. My sideboard is now devoid of answers to artifact hate cards like Flux/Rod/Serenity. Rushing River works great, but I figured that it's just not worth it to fight hate. The way to fight hate is to win faster, and sometimes they just don't draw the hate. Also, Bob/Tezz puts you in a better position to recover if you played with them.

Boarding advice with the new list: THe maindeck now doesn't play REvoker nor Golem, so this is a huge move away from the very initial philosophy of the list. The maindeck is really focused on the aggro plan with 3 Jitte not just stabilizing yourself, but just being the best weapon against Merfolks/Goblins/Elves/Zoo (even better if you draw into them with Bob!). AGainst your weaker Bant/GWx matchups packing Pridemages + Exalted + KotR + quality creatures, you want to bring in Perish/Abyss. Abyss is weaker against GWx builds playing Pridemage so always prioritize Perish above Abyss. However, with the current maindeck, you can really drag out games with Metamorph + Champion that Abyss becomes very assymmetrical (the more turns they can't swing, they just keep losing more creatures).

Against control/combo, your maindeck still has some chance. AGainst control, you are still fairly strong and aggressive but against combo you're weaker without maindeck golems. The postboard plan against any deck playing less than 8 creatures is to board in Golems + Thorns (even against Team Amerca, do this, and keep Metamorph in against their Tombstalkers). You board out 3 Jitte + 3 Tezz for 3 Thorns + 3 Golems against the control/combo matchup (It's sad you board out Tezz but it's not as synergistic with the 4Thorns/3Golems/4Metamorph adding all the sphere effects up).

The maindeck is now decent against Merfolks/Goblins without a sideboard plan.

The list seems to run a lot smoother now, mainly because of the improved manabase, and Bob just randomnly winning games all by himself (along with Chalice).

I'm excited, and would like to test more and play in the tourney this weekend. Keep me updated on your testings and thoughts. A lot has been changing. The monoU build isn't obsolete. It's better situationed in aggro metagames, but I feel the UB build just has more raw power to get out of nastier situations where the monoU build is weak against (Natural Order, Show and Tell, Bant, etc).

[whiley85]

Really nice post. I can follow all your arguments and your tons of changes make sense in the end.
Nevertheless I try to bring my list on 1-2 tourneys this weekend and prove myself or negate myself, whatever.
I'll try to give feedback as good as you do.
The developement of steel stompy goes so much different ways, but several ways are unexpected good ^^

[tsabo_tavoc]

Dark Confidant is a nice find! This is my personal take after some testing


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitor
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
1 Swamp
1 Glimmervoid
3 Wasteland
4 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal

4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Crucible of World
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

I believe this deck should play 4 Golem. He not only screws combo, but is stellar against Aggro and Aggro-control, and fairly well against Midrange and Control. As nearly all legacy decks have tight mana bases, he normally deters 3-mana and 4-mana bombs by 2-3 turns and synergises so well with Wasteland and Revoker. Should he eats a removal, his tax effect refuses to let your opponent time walk. With 4 Golem, the more conditional Metamorph needs not to be a 4-of in MD.

I am going on to argue Inkmoth Nexus is very important in the deck. We play 23-24 lands and our threat density would be too low if there were no manland in between, which can not be offset by Tezzeret's sheer power. To support a single Tezzeret, I opted cutting a Wasteland for Glimmervoid before any Inkmoth. Besides being a finisher, Inkmoth chumpblocks flyer (kills pesty Clique) and is an Artifact when tapped but not dies to mass Artifact hates, so versatile! I can see putting another Tezzeret somewhere in the 75, but not at the expense of Golem/Inkmoth.

I am not sure on the 2cc slot though, and in which MU do you think Steel Overseer is essential /good enough/worse than a Revoker?

I read Hollywood commenting on The Gate being a viable deck because of Dark Confidant and Wasteland. Now, we make both cards work in Steel Stompy and I believe it will not take long for this deck to top8 a large event.

[ThoSha]

After some testing i felt UW is more viable than UB or UWB atm.
Playing a Stoneforge toolbox in this deck is good as we can save slots and add flexibility. The white splash also offers Artefact/Enchantment Removal in the board.
Another conclusion might be standstill. I often feel like it would be a strong back up after starting with a T1 Legionaire or Etched Champion.

A list like that could look as following:

4 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Standstill
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Crucible of Worlds

SB:
3x Seal of Cleansing
4x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Body and Mind
2x Cranial Plating
4x Phyrexian Revoker

[GGoober]

I tried Standstill before (many pages back). It was really funny and quite good with 6 manland build. However, I dropped it because:

A competent opponent knows that Standstill only draws cards in this deck, and not dig into counterspells. This is the main reason I stopped playing Standstill. Your opponent sculpts a hand, drops Show and Tell Emrakul/Deed/Bomb-you-name-it. You lose because Standstill is just drawing cards in this deck, but not allowing you to abuse Standstill on your opponent's turn to answer threats etc.

I think UW is really strong as well, especially with the more aggro-direction. The equipment helps a lot in attrition fight and the mid-game, gives you a good shot against artifact hate, and makes every dude a threat.

I've taken a break from the deck because:

1) I cannot win die rolls. I won 1 die roll over the course of 2 weeks.
2) My opponent plays GFTT against my deck (lol), killing Bob then hymns me so I'm ragequitting for awhile :P
3) This deck loses to Hymn :(

Other than that, I really liked Bob in the deck. Tsabo. I agree with you that Golem should be maindecked. It felt as if I was boarding in Golems in frequently 2 weeks ago. (I went 1-3 2 weeks ago, getting paired up against GFTT Team America with Hymns and Meandeck MUD, which is like the worst matchup ever)

I punted in the Meandeck MUD matchup by not Jitte shrinking an in-response-greaved Blightsteel Colossus. I had the metamorph in hand which was MVP in this matchup.

I think the good thing about UW build with SFM, is that you can play both 4 Metamorph and 4 Golems, without worrying about life loss, and SFM is essentially providing card advantage, and a winning/recovering strategy. That's something I will be testing as well, but not soon. Let me know of any results :)

[Michael Keller]

3) This deck loses to Hymn :(

You could always try running Metrognome as a four-of in the sideboard. Seems good against Standstill if it hits the board, too. It's a bit narrow, but it's something to consider. It cleans up your mulligans a bit too; if your opponent is running Thoughtseize or Duress, keeping a hand of two of those with five lands isn't necessarily a bad thing in the right match-up.

Also, running Standstill in this deck doesn't seem like a good idea. It's a Stompy variant at heart, and wants to win as soon as possible. Expediting the process using a card forcing your opponent to wait out and sculpt their hand really isn't an ideal situation when you're really just trying to steamroll them.

[ThoSha]

Yeah, i agree that standstill is subpar for this deck in the end.
I am messing around with Thoughtcast a bit, seems pretty good so far.

[Michael Keller]

Also, for the record, Dark Confidant is terrible in this deck. The fact is you can't reliably expect a 2/1 creature to do any relevant damage to an opponent, rather only to yourself with the curve of this deck rounding out a bit higher than most take into account for. Getting nailed for seven to eight damage (over the course of two turns) isn't really that good of an idea when all you're able to produce before dropping another threat is a 2/1 vanilla guy staring down a massive force of Fish or Goblins. Just because you stick a Bob for two turns doesn't mean you automatically win the game; that's just not how it works. You need strong, evasive threats with a decent removal suite in order to get in enough damage in a hurry. Adding Bob might only shore up some removal or a counter from an opponent, which is fine, but he really isn't that great in a deck with a higher curve.

Now, if you were running a variant predicated on a lower curve abusing Swords (of F/I, LaS, etc.) and zero to one cost creatures, that would make for an interesting concept. This would make Dark Confidant much more effective and give you an opportunity to save some life in the process. The fact is in Legacy most people just dump their life totals to gain any sort of edge they can. Life becomes more and more valuable as the turns progress, so you really don't want to throw it all away too early - especially when running cards like Ancient Tomb with it.

[GGoober]

The fact is you can't reliably expect a 2/1 creature to do any relevant damage to an opponent, rather only to yourself with the curve of this deck rounding out a bit higher than most take into account for.

The damage that Bob does isn't 2 damage a turn. If he swings for 2 a turn, that's even better. The real damage that Bob does is drawing cards, and that puts your opponents back more than taking 2 a turn. When you have a faster draw rate into drawing Champions/Masters/Tezz/Metamorph, you don't even need Bob to swing at all because your opponents are always 1-card behind you, and 1-permanent behind you (since Bob draws permanents in this deck).

The AVERAGE cmc of the deck is fairly low as I've worked it out. If you're arguing that the DISTRIBUTION of the deck is skewed and being a non-bell, you are correct. Junk is the best deck to play Bobs due to a heavy skew of 1,2,3cmc spells. Instead of theorizing that the distribution of the deck isn't good, I'll work on actually calculating taht when I get home. For myself it's really easy to see how that's not neccessarily true. In the earlier list I was playing, the 4cmc spells include 3 Tezz, 4 Metamorph and 34 0cmc slots. Contrast that with Stoneblade with 3 Jace, 4 FoW, 1 Batterskull and less 0cmc slots but more 1-2cmc slots. This is just a rough analysis, I can work out the actual results when I'm home.

I used to think I'll take a ton of damage from Bob, but that's not true. It only happens when I flip Metamorph/Tezz which wins me games (very much like Bob flipping Jace/FoW).

I think you are dismissing Bob without actually testing him. But I'll grant you this: The real loss of playing Bob is not being able to play 4 Metamorph + 4 Golems in the deck. I could, but that would be trending to what you were describing as taking too much damage since the average cmc for such a deck is around 1.3 to 1.4. The UW build suggested on earlier pages is a good suggestion, because you keep 4 Metamorphs/4Golems, and play SFM in place of Bob (which function as a tutor to win games or in short a card that generates card advantage). The drawbacks of the UW build is not being able to play Tezz/Bob/Perish, which is a trade off because you get to play 4Metamorph/4Golems/SFM/Seal of Cleansing etc. I will have to test which build is stronger or answers the weaker matchups.

[Michael Keller]

The damage that Bob does isn't 2 damage a turn. If he swings for 2 a turn, that's even better. The real damage that Bob does is drawing cards, and that puts your opponents back more than taking 2 a turn. When you have a faster draw rate into drawing Champions/Masters/Tezz/Metamorph, you don't even need Bob to swing at all because your opponents are always 1-card behind you, and 1-permanent behind you (since Bob draws permanents in this deck).

Depending on which build you are referring to, Dark Confidant can do a serious amount of damage to player using it in a hurry. You're already looking at anywhere between eight to twelve cards at CMC3/4, which is quite relevant. Decks like Zoo, Merfolk, and Goblins can eradicate any sort of "card-advantage" gained off Confidant in a hurry, because in reality you're not really gaining anything due to the inherent lack of permission paralleled with the surplus of threats mounting against you on the opposing side. So in essence, you're not really doing anything except accumulating three and four-drops in your hand while getting beaten down to nothing.


The AVERAGE cmc of the deck is fairly low as I've worked it out. If you're arguing that the DISTRIBUTION of the deck is skewed and being a non-bell, you are correct. Junk is the best deck to play Bobs due to a heavy skew of 1,2,3cmc spells. Instead of theorizing that the distribution of the deck isn't good, I'll work on actually calculating taht when I get home. For myself it's really easy to see how that's not neccessarily true. In the earlier list I was playing, the 4cmc spells include 3 Tezz, 4 Metamorph and 34 0cmc slots. Contrast that with Stoneblade with 3 Jace, 4 FoW, 1 Batterskull and less 0cmc slots but more 1-2cmc slots. This is just a rough analysis, I can work out the actual results when I'm home.

It doesn't change the fact the archetype does in theory run a higher curve. If it didn't, there would be no relevant reason to run Tombs and Cities; you could make do with Opals just fine. I'm not sure what you're running, but the lists I've seen piled up here are all curved upwards of three to four mana and running Bob as a desperate means to generate card advantage could actually come back to haunt you when you're staring down lethal damage.


I used to think I'll take a ton of damage from Bob, but that's not true. It only happens when I flip Metamorph/Tezz which wins me games (very much like Bob flipping Jace/FoW).

People who flip Jace and Force off Bob generally put themselves in the predicament of forcing an attack with Dark Confidant in a desperate attempt to make up for the massive loss of life and to run him into a set of potentially lethal blockers to save life points. Anyone smart enough in this opposing predicament would let him live and push more damage forward, putting some serious pressure on the table. Dropping Jace is fine, but Jace in this archetype seems terrible when you consider your primary objective with the deck is to steamroll ahead. Jace is the heart of any control deck, and this archetype really only uses control elements as a de facto source of pushing damage forward. Double-colored spells should never exist in a deck using a full compliment of Sol-lands - unless there is a very good reason in justifying so.


I think you are dismissing Bob without actually testing him. But I'll grant you this: The real loss of playing Bob is not being able to play 4 Metamorph + 4 Golems in the deck. I could, but that would be trending to what you were describing as taking too much damage since the average cmc for such a deck is around 1.3 to 1.4. The UW build suggested on earlier pages is a good suggestion, because you keep 4 Metamorphs/4Golems, and play SFM in place of Bob (which function as a tutor to win games or in short a card that generates card advantage). The drawbacks of the UW build is not being able to play Tezz/Bob/Perish, which is a trade off because you get to play 4Metamorph/4Golems/SFM/Seal of Cleansing etc. I will have to test which build is stronger or answers the weaker matchups.

I actually have done extensive testing with Bob, but my list I'm quite sure varies from yours in what could be considered as a "Steel Stompy" variant. I run cards like Phyrexian Walker and Ornithopter with an abundance of Swords to turn them into lethal attackers before serving as good blockers. I also use Steel Overseer and Dark Confidant, with Mystic Remora as a means of turning extra Sol-lands into good upkeep production. I also use Lodestone Golem as a win condition and lock-component. Remora is the only CMC1 card in the deck to nullify Misstep's effectiveness, with a full compliment of Chalice of the Void. My deck runs a total of twelve "pump effects": eight Swords and four Overseer. Eight spells at CMC3 is reasonable, but again - I don't know what your official list looks like.

[Greenpoe]

Bob draws blockers, which make up for the lifeloss. Bob draws threats, which close the game that much faster, which makes up for the lifeloss. Still, I'm leaning toward Bob as a sideboard card. I've been running him in the SB for a while in this deck since he can win games by himself, but game 1, I'd rather be more focused on forming locks through Revoker, Wasteland, Chalice, The Abyss and Lodestone Golem, then following it up with Steel Overseer, MOE or Tezz to finish the game. Part of my problem with maindeck Bob is how he overlaps with Tezz. 2UB vs. 1B isn't that big of a difference in a stompy deck. Both draw a card a turn. Often times you do not want to rush out a Bob, because dropping a lock piece is a higher priority.

[Michael Keller]

Bob draws blockers, which make up for the lifeloss. Bob draws threats, which close the game that much faster, which makes up for the lifeloss. Still, I'm leaning toward Bob as a sideboard card. I've been running him in the SB for a while in this deck since he can win games by himself, but game 1, I'd rather be more focused on forming locks through Revoker, Wasteland, Chalice, The Abyss and Lodestone Golem, then following it up with Steel Overseer, MOE or Tezz to finish the game. Part of my problem with maindeck Bob is how he overlaps with Tezz. 2UB vs. 1B isn't that big of a difference in a stompy deck. Both draw a card a turn. Often times you do not want to rush out a Bob, because dropping a lock piece is a higher priority.

After reading all of these posts and noticing where the direction everyone is taking this deck, is this really a Stompy deck anymore, or some B/u(x) Artifact-Control deck?

I'm just a little confused.

I know Lodestone Golem serves double-duty, but it still largely reflects itself as being a deck locking players out of the game rather than going straight beat-down like any true Stompy deck normally would.

[GGoober]

@hollywood:

I defined it in my primer that Stompy is a Chalice aggro deck, Steel Stompy is an artifact-based Chalice aggro deck. I don't think I/we have drifted from the core of the idea. Also, the directional development that Steel Stompy has taken initially begun by shifting away from traditional stompy, which were primarily based on playing out huge bombs fast by incurring card disadvantage (SSG/ESG/Chrome etc). Most Stompy builds also tend toward a low land count using Chromes where Steel Stompy plays a much higher land count with Wastelands and Mox Diamond (due to restrictions of color and synergy with the manabase etc).

Steel Stompy is still most definitely a stompy deck. It's still Chalice aggro (4 Chalice, 8 Sol lands, 2-3cmc drops instead of 1 drops). There was some interest in forgoing Chalice altogether to play Vials/Signal Pest (12 lord build) but I wasn't sold on it since Chalice steals a lot of games. If we ever drop the 4 Chalice, 8 Sol lands, you're probably right this is no longer a stompy deck.

Most Stompy decks, unlike what you say don't really go true beatdown. If they did, they'll lose because the other variants are powering out big threats with a lot of card disadvantage. Once the single threat is answered, you lose. Steel Stompy's threats are powered out easily (because they are mostly 2-3cmc instead of 3-5cmc). It is not as painful for Steel Stompy to lose a creature here or there because you did not spend 2-3 cards trying to play a threat.

In all honesty, I love Lodestone Golems, but I still feel that it is incredibly hard to lock a player out in Legacy with Lodestone than it is in Vintage. since Legacy is primarily an aggro-based format (ironically for an eternal format), Lodestone isn't as shining as it is in Vintage. Sometimes you get the god-hand of turn 1 Chalice, turn 2 Lodestone, turn 3 Wasteland + play. This is the only scenario where you really lock someone out. It's happened a few times for me but most of those times, I lose my die roll (as usual), go second and have the entire play destroyed: Opponents thoughtseize, Hymn, GG lol.

I'll comment on your list and Bobs later. No time today until I get home :P

EDIT: If I were to summarize what kind of deck this 'rogue' Stompy deck is, I'll put it this way:

Steel Stompy is a deck that plays like Merfolks. You want to keep dropping dudes and pressure your opponents, and at the same time have some way to slow an opponent down (Chalice/Waste/Golems). The goal is to apply board pressure constantly and eventually race an opponent when they cannot keep up with you (this is why 8 lords is critical in this deck, and 8-12 lords in Merfolks). In some ways, Steel Stompy is a tempo-beatdown deck that is just concerned about smashing in, ignoring if an opponent StP's your dudes because you have more coming. Sadly the tempo-beatdown strategy is within a Stompy shell, which is highly inconsistent by nature of its manabse (8 sol lands is really not enough to consistently support this archetype for now), but does has its merits sometimes (Chalice, playing out big threats that cost more and can't be played outside of Stompy.decs).

[ThoSha]

Well I ended up cutting the Wastelands, Golems and Mox Diamonds for Springleaf Drums, early Thopters/mems, more Threats and Stoneforge Mystics + Thoughtcast. I guess its just the best way melting affinity and steel stompy altogether. No real need for Chalice except in Sideboards.
I was satisfied with the result so far, but time will tell.

[GGoober]

So after playtesting a bunch of games last nights with friends (I wasn't playing Steel Stompy but my friends were all playing SFM-based decks and NORUG/Merfolks etc), I came to realize how powerful SFM has become as a strategy in Legacy. The difference between SFM and Bob is: For Bob, you can afford him to come into play and kill him with removal or let Bob draw 1 card and you'll still be fine (if he sticks longer than that you probably lose). For SFM, you cannot afford the SFM to come into play. You can kill it if they tutored Batterskull etc, but for most parts, the damage is done. If SFM is not countered and the SFM grabs an equipment, every subsequent threat he plays is now a bigger threat with the equipment.

Taking the ideas raised earlier by the forum-mates and relooking into Rukcus' suggestion on playing Vial over Chalice and laughing at the post I made earlier that Steel Stompy still maintains a Chalice-aggro build, I decided to work out a list that tries to fully maximize aggressiveness/card-advantage and minimize the issues of inconsistency where you don't open with Mox/Sol-land (shit happens sometimes even if you play 14 slots to ensure you have a turn 1 2cmc play).

Here's a list first before I comment (long post coming :P)

Lands: 23
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Ancient Den
2 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Inkmoth Nexus

Accel: 6 (might drop the 3rd opal because I'm playing Vial, and up the Metamorph to 4, but still testing)
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

Creatures: 22
3 Steel Overseer/Legionaire (leaning to Overseer due to mana issues and Legionaire not being as good with Vial)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

Others: 6
4 Aether Vial
2 Crucible of Worlds

Equipment: 4
1 Plating
1 Batterskull
1 SoFI (flex slot but this is the best sword thanks to Champion)
1 Jitte


SB: 15
3 Seal of Cleansing
2 Oblivion Ring (flex slots other options Hanna's Custody against pinpoint artifact removal e.g. Grudge, you don't care about Grips, or Canonist in combo-heavy metas)
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
1 SoFF
1 Phyrexian Metamorph


I'll go over details:
WHY VIAL OVER CHALICE?
This is the experimental stage and I'm not making the claim that we should cut chalice, but for the particular build I posted above, Vial is much stronger than Chalice.

Firstly, playing Vial opens us up to opposing MM where not playing Vial would have completely killed 4 cards in an opponent's deck. At the same time, even if you run out a Vial into a MM, you are fine since this deck has functioned perfectly without Vial. Just like Merfolk is a deck that functions much better than Gobs without Vial, Steel Stompy can do fine without Vial, but like all Vial decks, if Vial resolves when your opponent does not have the MM, they are going to be losing the match very soon. This deck is capable of gaining board position very fast the same way Merfolk does (you play lords like they do and your dudes are bigger or are mini-progenitus). I hope I addressed the point of view where I emphasized Vial is not critical to the deck's success, but it does 4 things that's highly important for this build:

0) Vial functions as a 'sol-land', what I mean by this is Vial is another central piece to improving the mana-to-threat consistency of Stompy. I think Stompy really needs another sol-land to be truly viable, but I doubt WotC will print one anytime soon. Vial functions as a way to maintain consistency outside on depending entirely on drawing Sol-lands/Moxes. Vial is surprisingly decent in Steel Stompy because unlike other Stompy variants, our threats are well-distributed to be used with Vial (very similar to Goblins).
1) If it resolves, it will cheat 2,3,4cmc creatures on a well-distributed cmc curve to further improve on the 'tempo' plan on racing opponents. It is completely bonkers with SFM/Champion (Champion is now uncounterable and mini-progenitus lol)
2) It allows the deck to play 2 threats a turn instead of 1, or spend the mana equipping and actually using manlands to swing.
3) It sets up smoothly for turn 2 Metalcraft. If you have Vial turn 1 (always playable unlike Chalice turn 1), you can setup for Metalcraft on turn 2 as easily as before.

In addition, your opponents have a choice to keep their MM in against you postboard. If they do, you should be happy because aside from Vial, MM does not hit anything else. There are situations where MM hits your vial, then further MM in their MD do nothing but take up slots. If MM does not hit vial if they don't draw it, you are heavily favored. If they boarded out MM, then Vial becomes even better. It's the same reason as how keeping MM against Merfolks is sometimes questionable but for most parts you do keep it in postboard games since they bring in Spell Pierces making them have a total of 12 1cmc drops to counter (4 Vial/4cursectacher/4Pierce). For this deck, your opponents keeping 4 MM against 4 Vial does not look very ideal when everything else you play is non-MM'able

Now, not playing Chalice means that we lose the potential to entirely kill our opponent's 1cmc spells. at the same time, there are games where Chalice isn't very good on the draw, or if you drew one late. Chalice is great against decks that fold to it (Burn/Little Zoo/combo/control to some extent) and is much weaker against the current meta that is very focused on 2-3cmc spells (our playgroup talked about how 2 is the new 3 i.e. Bob/SFM have pushed KotR and other 3cmc creatures out of popularity). I decided that Chalice was great against many decks, and decent against control and some aggro decks, but I feel that for the same slots, Vial just completely destroys control if resolved, and gives you a better shot at aggro decks than Chalice could offer. I think moving Chalice to the board is an initial experiment but only more playtesting can tell.


WHY WHITE SPLASH OVER BLACK?
I think we have all gone through that black offers a ton for Steel Stompy: Bob/Tezz/Perish/Abyss. I'm still reluctant to cut black for most parts (have you guys resolved Tezz? He's the most powerful planeswalker in the format if you're playing an artifact deck, he kills the next turn right away and his +1 is ages stronger than Jstorm etc). I would be sad to lose Perish/Abyss, and Bob. However, I think the white splash more than makes up for it.

The slots of Perish/Abyss that are lost are recouped with the ability of SFM to fetch relevant equipments that neutralize the aggro decks. Grabbing Batterskull against Merfolks, SoFI against folks/Gobs/Elves, SoFF against green-based decks, Jitte against everything, this fills up the loss of Perish/Abyss. The loss of Bob is replaced by SFM, which as I mentioned earlier in the opening post, it's my opinion that SFM is actually much harder to deal with than Bob (Bob allows an opponent to let it through and answer via removal but SFM demands that you counter her or the damage is done). For this deck, a single relevant equipment is a form of card 'advantage'. If you grab a Jitte against folks/gobs, or a Batterskull against Merfolks, that's about all the card 'advantage' you need because the opponents have to spend turns delaying and finding an answer while you continue your gameplan normally.

The loss of Tezz cannot be replaced, but the question becomes whether white offers more than black and the loss of Tezz. For the white splash, you have great sideboard cards: Seal of Cleansing that lands a turn faster than Deed, Rod (if you're on the play), Energy Flux, Humility/Moat/Ensnaring Bridge etc. Oblivion Ring is a more expensive version of Seal of Cleansing but it works great against Emrakul decks etc. The black splash does not offer much against these anti-artifact hate but offers Tezz to win games under opposing Humility/Moat/Ebridge etc.

All in all, I think the white splash still gains a lot despite losing the bombs that black offers. What I like about the white splash is the ability to play 4 Golems/4 Metamorphs MD without worrying about lifeloss from Bob. In the UB build I played with Bob, I can only afford 4Golems or 4Metamorphs maindeck and not both or the curve will be too high. The white splash entirely avoids this and can play up to a full set of golems/metamorphs.

Lastly, it's my opinion that SFM tutoring equipment is a strong strategy in this deck. The very fact that Champion himself has great synergy with equipments, is a reassuring fact that this is a good synergy. There are some scenarios that I was brainstorming yesterday which this build is capable of fighting.

When your opponents are boarding in Null Rods, you can easily play around Rods by cutting out all equipments and Overseer and board in Seal of Cleansing/Oring (casted off Glimmervoid or cast a pre-emptive Seal). You keep vials because you can get 1-2 activations before it gets stopped and if you resolve seal, vial is active again. All equipments except Batterskull is boarded out because under Rod, all the other equipment is dead but Batterskull still works under SFM under Rod. Even hardcasting Batterskull for 5 is not difficult in this deck with the stompy manabase. Every other creature in your deck is a beater that does not require an activated ability and is easily casted of Sol-lands and Glimmervoids/Wastelands/Inkmoth so this version does not fold as easily to Null Rod.

If your opponents are playing Deed, you want to board in all Seals and Oblivion Ring because they are most likely to tap out playing Deed and having these 'disenchant' will stop the Deed from going off next turn.

You board in Chalice against: combo/little zoo/burn/high tide but I think you don't board them in against control or any other deck. This is because the maindeck with SFM/Overseer/Champion/Vial/Wasteland/Crucible/Golem/equipments IMO is strong enough to deal with control. You can board in Thorns for control, Thorns for combo, and any deck that runs less than 9 creatures e.g. Team America/Thresh.

As always, really excited for this deck. The fact that your moxes tap for any color rather than 1 color gives Steel Stompy much more potential to develop and evolve than other Stompy variants. I just need to practice winning the die roll more often.

Once I get solid results with UB/UW/MonoU builds, and know the best build for each, I'll be revamping the opening post someday. Sorry that the opening post isn't updated and is long and cluttered with now 'obsolete' cards. We did have 2 previous sets that printed a ton of options for this deck, and the forum people brainstorming new ideas that are always great suggestions!

[mrjumbo03]

Any new results with the different lists? I actually haven't tried the UW list but it looks very promising.

[GGoober]

Haven't done testing with this deck since the last posting. Still scarred from GFTT killing my bob and winning the game for my opponent lol.

I goldfished the UW list back then. It was neat with Vial/SFM. However, I felt Vial is a little too slow for this deck (considering your manabase casts everything quickly), but Vial gives you hands where you can curve out the way Merfolk does, and ship in a Jitte/Batterskull unharmed. I like how you can play 4 Metamorphs and 4 Golem in the UW build.

Although honestly, playing the UW list doesn't feel as broken as the UB list. Resolving Mystic doesn't do as much damage as resolving a Bob, or a turn 2-3 Tezz. I'll see if I can play the deck again this weekend. There's been random black discard decks the last few weeks showing up sporadically and I want to avoid those matchups (discard/pox/edict.decs/mono-colored-non-wasteable lands) are this deck's weak matchup.

[Beautiful-Decay]

How about Buried Ruin, wouldn't it fit the deck combined with our Crucible of Worlds. (turns our creatures into recur also like our lands does.) - though it only produces colourless, so we would need to fit our land-base once more.

[GGoober]

Hey guys, I haven't been posting here because I have no results or negative results. I feel the deck is strong enough to contend as a tier 2 deck, but since I have not done well with it (even at local small metas), I've refused to do an update until I feel it was necessary. Here's the latest list that I'm running and a few comments for those still interested:

Lands: 21
4 Ancient Den
2 Seat of the Synod
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Glimmervoid

Creatures: 25
3 Steel Overseer
3 Porcelain Legionaire
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Lodestone Golem

Accelerants: 9
2 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
4 Aether Vial

Equipments: 5
1 Batterskull
1 Cranial Plating
1 Sword of Fire/Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte

SB: 15
3 Seal of Cleansing
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Thorn of Amethyst
6 flex slots (1 SoFF/3 Hibernation/2 Revoker)

COMMENTS:
SFM - A Beast. You usually tutor Jitte/Batterskull/Plating. With Jitte/Batterskull every game seen by drawing them or tutored via SFM, this offsets the lifeloss from Phyrexian mana and Tomb

Overseer - still easily the best card in the deck for an aggro strategy. I'm thinking of cutting the 3rd Legionaire for the 4th Overseer. Let's just say that I lost to Merfolks because he sower'd my Overseer.

Legionaire - Really solid on turn 1, but sometimes clunky with Vial. However since Vial should be set at 3 and 4 (similar to goblins), it's still decent in the late game. Legionaire with Batterskull/sword/Jitte is pretty silly.

Batterskull - I hardcasted a turn 3 Batterskull with 2 Sol-lands and a Mox. Batterskull synergizes very strong with Champion, giving you a 6/6 Lifelink Vigilance Progenitus (happens to race Progenitus easily :P) When you get to equip Batterskull on Champion, you can't lose to aggro decks unless the equipment is removed. Another interesting note about Batterskull in this deck is: You can copy it with Phyrexian Metamorph, triggering a Living Equipment germ token again. That's pretty amazing as you set up with multiple batterskulls in play when the need arises. Batterskull fits into the UW build very nicely. It provides the lifelink that is much needed for the deck, it completely dominates when you get Champion or copy it with Metamorph. It's easily hardcasted/bounced/re-casted.

Aether Vial - This is the latest innovation to the deck, suggested by some forum people (rukcus etc), the greatest thing was that Vial worked better with the SFM build, allowing you to sneak in SFM. More importantly, Chalice is no longer as powerful as I once believed it to be. Sure on the play you can ruin control or Zoo, but against non-combo and non-burn/zoo matchups, Chalice doesn't do much. Since combo/Zoo is on an all time low, I feel Vial is much stronger. Vial will single-handedly beat control if they don't deal with it (Chalice does not). Vial also allowed me to drop down to 21 lands instead of 24 lands, adding more steam to the deck, Vial allows the deck to curve the way Goblins does, and even better, if my opponents keep 4 Misstep in against me in games 2/3, good for them (this deck doesn't need vial to cast threats)

White - Oblivion Ring + Seal = great against Deed/Energy Flux/Emrakuls. Hibernation functions alright against green/Progenitus.

All in all, these are the summary of how the deck has developed. I haven't been doing well, partly from taking a break from Magic, also partly because the deck is stompy (it can only get this good) and my opponents sometimes just draws the NUTS (double FoW on my 2 SFM tutoring a Jitte, 2 basics, 2 Hierarchs and topdeck Brainstorm to shuffle Progenitus to Natural Order for one D:). I really like the current list though, Vial/SFM/4 Metamorph is the key highlight to the newer style/take of the deck.

@Buried Ruins: It's too slow for this deck and would involve playing with Crucibles. It's not a bad idea, and I think it would work best in a monoU or monoW shell with 2-3 Crucibles maindeck and at least 4-6 manlands.

[AggroSteve]

@ metalworker: how would a monoU version of the deck look like in your opinion, and what cards could be used in that case to offset the lifeloss of phyrexian mana and ancient tombs?

[AlterEgo]

I came across a somewhat weird situation today and I thought I'd share it with you:

I (still playing the old Mono-U list) control Master of Etherium and have Phyrexian Metamorph as the only artifact in the graveyard.

My opponent has a Goblin Welder
Welder Oracle text:

Tap: Choose target artifact a player controls and target artifact card in that player's graveyard. If both targets are still legal as this ability resolves, that player simultaneously sacrifices the artifact and returns the artifact card to the battlefield.

Because of the word "simultaneously", I can have Metamorph enter the battlefield as a copy of the artifact being sacrificed to the same ability (in this case, MoE). The reason is the same as why you can't copy an Emrakul that enters the battlefield via the Show and Tell, that brings Metamorph: A replacement effect is applied before the event (etb+Sac in this case) actually happens. And in this moment, the Master is still there to be copied.