Playing Landstill on Sunday at Legacy Tourny: Need Critique

[InResponseForceOfWill]

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I chose this forum. Sorry if it belongs elsewhere.

Hello everyone. I'm playing in a Legacy Tournament this Sunday with my Landstill deck.

First place takes home 4x Underground Sea, second gets a Moat, third gets 4x FoW, forth gets 4x Wasteland, and fifth through eighth gets Italian Karakas. Pretty sweet!

I'm an avid legacy player, but have never competed before. Please help me make my deck the best it can be. Unfortunately, I don't know what to expect for the meta, so I tried to make the side board be able to deal with a variety of legacy threats. Anyways, here's my list:

24 Land:

4x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
4x Mishra's Factroy
3x Wasteland
2x Windswept Heath
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Island
2x Plains
1x Faerire Conclave

36 Spells:

4x Force of Will
4x Standstill
4x Counterspell
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
3x Wrath of God
2x Fact or Fiction
2x Nevinyrll's Disk
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Spell Snare
2x Decree of Justice
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Pulse of the Fields
1x Chain of Vapor


Side Board:

2x Path to Exile
2x Spell Pierce
2x Meddling Mage
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Pithing Needle
1x Humility
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Hurkyl's Recall


Before everyone jumps all over me for running Pulse of the Fields, I will NOT remove it. It has dug me out of many holes and won me countless games. The chain of vapor can probably go, but I'm partial to it too since it's worked well for me. I guess I'm mainly looking for comments on my SB to make it strong against an unknown meta. Thanks in advance for your help.

[mossivo1986]

Take pulse out of your maindeck. .......




Play cunning wish.

[InResponseForceOfWill]

Play cunning wish.

Okay cool. So if I toss Pulse in the SB and run a Cunning Wish, what other targets in my SB might I want to include that Wish could fetch? Already, it can grab Pulse, Path to Exile, Enlightened Tutor (mostly useless), Mindbreak Trap, Hurkyl's Recall, and Spell Pierce (pointless). What are some other good targets that I should consider?

[Sims]

Okay cool. So if I toss Pulse in the SB and run a Cunning Wish, what other targets in my SB might I want to include that Wish could fetch? Already, it can grab Pulse, Path to Exile, Enlightened Tutor (mostly useless), Mindbreak Trap, Hurkyl's Recall, and Spell Pierce (pointless). What are some other good targets that I should consider?

Pulse, a removal spell is usually good, some type of counterspell (misdirection/forbid/something) is usually good for this type of wishboard. Ravenous trap is pretty good in the dredge match.. Wish for it after they've dredged their library in response to a dread return or a therapy and trap their yard.

I'm not quite sure 100% what to expect but I know there will probably be junk, merfolk, goblins, and probably CB/Top decks at this event... the rest will likely be pretty random.

[InResponseForceOfWill]

I'm not quite sure 100% what to expect but I know there will probably be junk, merfolk, goblins, and probably CB/Top decks at this event... the rest will likely be pretty random.

Sims, are you going? This is at Comic Depot in Wilton Mall (in fact, you were the one who pointed this store out to me). I've never been there before, until yesterday when I went to pre-register. (just moved from Clifton Park to Ballston Lake). Maybe I'll get to meet you there. But now you know what I'm playing! Crap!

[Sims]

Sims, are you going? This is at Comic Depot in Wilton Mall. I've never been there before, until yesterday when I went to pre-register. (just moved from Clifton Park to Ballston Lake). Maybe I'll get to meet you there. But now you know what I'm playing! Crap!

Yeah, I'll be there. I've been testing a few deck options and i've got it narrowed down to about 2 right now, still unsure which is going to win out. There's a few people on this site who will be there, I'm glad to see you'll make it.

[god_campbell]

I am going to guess you have no access to Jace Mindsculptors, as I did not see them in your list, which is the biggest hole I see, I would definetly add in a pair for the 2 fact or fiction.

If your looking to run cwish's, the pulse and the chain can be cut for 2 cwish.

Have you considered Red for firespouts? they are great against tribal, and running red allows you to run Engineered explosives for 3 which is a huge boon over the 2 colors, and you wouldn't be losing much if you cut down on the glacial fortress's and swapped the 2 heaths for scalding tarns or other blue fetch. then I would cut 1 wrath and a disk for 2 EE's.

Just a few suggestions I had, for more, Id consider looking at the U/W/x landstill thread under established decks http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?9280-[Deck]-UW(x)-Landstill.

[TheShaun]

Putting the tourney details right in the beginning definitely shows where you'll be playing, but I wouldn't worry about tipping your hand. Not like the whole field is gonna instantly meta you out of it. For the typical meta here I'd say mostly aggro and aggro-control. A few dedicated control, maybe 2-3 combo. Definitely be most prepared for merfolk, goblins, burn, and rock ish variants. I'd say those 4 make up more than 50% of the normal field. Although I have no info on any of the non-regulars.

[InResponseForceOfWill]

Pulse, a removal spell is usually good, some type of counterspell (misdirection/forbid/something) is usually good for this type of wishboard. Ravenous trap is pretty good in the dredge match.. Wish for it after they've dredged their library in response to a dread return or a therapy and trap their yard.

Dropped Pulse and Chain of Vapor onto SB for 2x Cunning Wish or 1x CW, 1x Humility (which would open another SB slot). New SB looks like:

2x Path to Exile (removal)
2x Spell Pierce (counter) (maybe 1x Forbid, 1x Spell Pierce. Never played with Forbid before. Seems bad.)
2x Meddling Mage (pro Jace)
1x Ethersworn Canonist (anti-combo, I feel I should have 2x though)
1x Capsize/Echoing Truth/Chain of Vapor (which is best? or neither I'm thinking Echoing Truth b/c it kills tokens) (bounce)
1x Tormod's Crypt (graveyard hate)
1x Pithing Needle
1x Humility (anti-aggro)
1x Mindbreak Trap (anti-combo)
1x Pulse of the Fields (game saver)
1x Disenchant
1x Ravenous Trap (graveyard hate)

I dropped Enlightened Tutor, Ethersworn Canonist, Hurkyl's Recall and Ghostly Prison. Should I not have dropped any of those? Is Humility pointless without Enlightened Tutor? Should I consider a Submerge? (I'm thinking no)


I am going to guess you have no access to Jace Mindsculptors, as I did not see them in your list, which is the biggest hole I see, I would definetly add in a pair for the 2 fact or fiction.

Yah, no Jace 2.0 here. I had one but traded it for 2x FoW.



running red allows you to run Engineered explosives for 3 which is a huge boon over the 2 colors, and you wouldn't be losing much if you cut down on the glacial fortress's and swapped the 2 heaths for scalding tarns or other blue fetch. then I would cut 1 wrath and a disk for 2 EE's.

I'll def look into a red splash, but likely not in time for this event. I have 2x EE in the mail on the way to me and I doubt I'll get them until midway through next week. You're suggestions are great though. I'd def drop a WoG and Disk for two EE and the Fetches and Fortress' for 2x Scalding Tarn and 2x Volcanic Island.


Putting the tourney details right in the beginning definitely shows where you'll be playing, but I wouldn't worry about tipping your hand. Not like the whole field is gonna instantly meta you out of it. For the typical meta here I'd say mostly aggro and aggro-control. A few dedicated control, maybe 2-3 combo. Definitely be most prepared for merfolk, goblins, burn, and rock ish variants. I'd say those 4 make up more than 50% of the normal field. Although I have no info on any of the non-regulars.

I see you're from Halfmoon! I grew up there for 17 years (behind Wal Mart-ish off Rt 9) and went to Shen. Do you plan to attend this event? You should, it's not too far!

Thanks for the advice.

[troopatroop]

Why am I not home to win this? Shucks.

I also went to shen, class of 07.

[InResponseForceOfWill]

Why am I not home to win this? Shucks.

I also went to shen, class of 07.

Class of 2005 here. You probably know my sister, she graduated 2007.




Here's an updated list of what I plan on running:

24 Land:

4x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
4x Mishra's Factroy
3x Wasteland
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Island
2x Plains
1x Windswept Heath
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Faerire Conclave

36 Spells:

4x Force of Will
4x Standstill
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
3x Counterspell
3x Spell Snare/Pierce
3x Wrath of God
2x Fact or Fiction
2x Humility
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Decree of Justice
1x Cunning Wish
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Nevinyrll’s Disk


Side Board:

2x Path to Exile
2x Spell Pierce
2x Meddling Mage
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Pithing Needle
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Ravenous Trap
1x Pulse of the Fields
1x Echoing Truth
1x Disenchant


Thanks for your help everyone! Wish me luck!

[mossivo1986]

This is my list

// Lands
3 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [B] Plateau
1 [B] Scrubland
1 [B] Underground Sea
4 [B] Tundra
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [B] Island (2)
2 [B] Plains (3)

// Spells
3 [OD] Standstill
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 [JGC] Decree of Justice
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [B] Counterspell
1 [TE] Humility
1 [B] Nevinyrral's Disk
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [B] Wrath of God
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
1 [DIS] Spell Snare

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [WL] Peacekeeper
SB: 1 [M10] Negate
SB: 1 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
SB: 1 [U] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [OD] Ray of Distortion
SB: 1 [MBS] White Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 3 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [6E] Enlightened Tutor

[kiblast]

I don't understand the singleton Karakas when you don't even play Tolaria West to fetch it. Also 1x Top seems sub optimal, if you want to play it, play it in 2-3x.

Edit: singleton Spell Snare?

[Master Shake]

I don't understand the singleton Karakas when you don't even play Tolaria West to fetch it. Also 1x Top seems sub optimal, if you want to play it, play it in 2-3x.

Edit: singleton Spell Snare?

Isn't that kind of like saying "I don't get the Peacekeepers in the sideboard when you're not even playing Eladamri's Call to tutor for it?"

[Patrick]

Hi there! I'm glad you've decided to play Landstill at your next tournament. I recently top 16'd the Starcity in Indy with a similar build and I think we have a similar play style. Here are some changes I would make to your list:

Play Engineered Explosives: This is better than Wrath of God. It kills all the things you will have problems with and you can recur it with Academy Ruins to lock an opponent out, or to not lose the game to a Jace activation.

Play 4 colors: This lets you kill Planeswalkers with your EE's, and lets you get red in your Wish board.

More Cunning Wish: This card is amazing. Run 3.

I changed the board a bit, things like bounce spells and Pithing Needle are useless when you play EE. Negate is amazing and Firespout hoses tribal aggro decks. If you dont' expect tribal cut the Firespout for Peacekeeper number 3.

Faerie Conclave is awful. Nothing can come into play tapped. Same with Glacial Fortress. You'd rather have Hallowed Fountain.

Enlightened Tutor is the most Wished for card. It gets Humility, EE or Crucible. It's great.

You can check out my list on starcitygames.com if you want. If you have any questions feel free to email me at Patrick.S.Becerra@gmail.com. Good luck!

4x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
3x Mishra's Factroy
3x Wasteland
1x Underground Sea
1x Plateau
1x Volcanic Island
2x Island
2x Plains
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Academy Ruins
1x Karakas

36 Spells:

4x Force of Will
3x Standstill
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Counterspell
1x Spell Snare
1x Wrath of God
2x Fact or Fiction
2x Humility
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Decree of Justice
3x Cunning Wish
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Jace Beleren
3x Engineered Explosives


Side Board:

2x Path to Exile
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Firespout
2x Peacekeeper
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Extirpate
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Ravenous Trap
1x Pulse of the Fields
1x Negate
1x Dismantling Blow

[Patrick]

I'm glad Shake got in here. Even if his comment was completely mastubatory.

[GGoober]

I don't understand the singleton Karakas when you don't even play Tolaria West to fetch it. Also 1x Top seems sub optimal, if you want to play it, play it in 2-3x.

Edit: singleton Spell Snare?

Singleton copies used to look weird to me in many lists, but in a well-tuned/designed list, singletons are very powerful optimal card choices. Most people are strongly aligned to running 3-4 offs and the occasionaly 2-offs but many people are not comfortable with the idea of singletons. I myself never understood the purpose but from playing a lot more games, you'll know that when your list is more reduandant, singletons become much more powerful i.e. they serve a similar role (spell snare as an additional counter) but being a powerful card for the specific role it does.

Take spell snare for example. It is incredible at countering 2cmc spells (which the format has plenty) but is more narrow than counterspell, but it is INCREDIBLE at dealing with 2cmc slots. Do I run 1,2,3,4 copies? Due to meta shifts, it makes sense to play no more than 2-3 Spell Snares post survival ban. However, many people don't get the idea of playing 1: "Why play 1? I can't draw into it on turn 2 when I need it". But this statement is the common statement failing to recognize that Spell Snare serves as an additional counter to the deck's need, and even though it cannot hit non-2cmc spells, it eventually will, and it's best at doing that job. But when you do draw that Spell Snare early game, it's just ages better than Counterspell, the question becomes, can I cut more slots for Spell Snares 2-3, if no, then it's fine to play just 1, as long as that slot is dedicated to the 9th counterspell.

For the very same reason, I actually like the recent lists with 1 Elspeth 1 Decree over 2 Elspeth. sure you won't draw that Elspeth as often by playing x1 instead of x2. But Decree functions similarly to Elspeth (much more advantage in 1-turn) and yet Decree is much stronger than Elspeth in specific scenarios (against tribal, creating a ton of tokens to chump and win). It is basically redundancy in lists that allow 1-offs to be played. However, the challenge is designing a list that is redundant and yet works. This is the toughest part.

The Karakas is the easiest way to analyze. There really is no reason why a karakas shouldn't be played. It does open itself to getting Wastelanded, but if an opponent drew a waste, you would have lost a land drop anyway even if it wasn't a Karakas. karakas is a bad plains against decks its not relevant with that pack wastelands. It's a plains against decks that its not relevant that don't pack wasteland, it's much better than a plains against decks that are relevant. Then why not play 2 Karakas? Because the risk of drawing the 2nd Karakas outweighs the risks of not drawing karakas against said-relevant-matchups.

@Patrick: I like the list and have adopted mine with a few changes based on your/Shake's list (i.e. adding the 3rd Wish and 2nd FoF and dropping to 1 Elspeth), but the only thing I disagreed with is the Underground Sea. It should be a Trop for the 4th color splash. Why? You do play a Firespout postboard, so might as well use that 4th useless color to something useful hitting a random ass matchup like Faeries or Merfolks with Kira.

EDIT: NVM you play extirpate. I coudl have sworn the SCG list did not have an extirpate.

My list as of today ('goldfished' ~30 games last night mainly sampling against Zoo/Gobs/Merfolks/Bant)

Lands: 24
2 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
3 volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Tropical Island

Draw: 12
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
3 Cunning Wish
2 Fact or Fiction

Removal: 11
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Helix
3 EE
1 Humility

Counter: 8
4 Counterspell
4 FoW

Win/Advantage: 6
2 Isochron Scepter
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Elspeth
2 Jace

SB:
1 REB
1 BEB
2 Path
2 Orim's Chant
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Negate
1 Ravenous Trap
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Etutor

SB-Combo: +2 Chant, +2 Negate, +1 Mindbreak Trap, +1 REB
SB-Control: +2 Negate, +1 REB, +2 Chant
SB-Dredge/Loam: +3 Relic leave Trap in SB and keep MD wishes (which can grab chant against Dredge if needed on a stick)
SB-Gobs: +1 BEB, +1 Path, +1 Etutor (favorable MD anyway)
SB-Merfolks: +1 REB, +2 Chant (maybe if you don't expect bounce)
SB-Zoo/Bant: +2 Path, +3 Relic of Progenitus (don't need this but I would cut Crucible and some wishes to play straight up removal)

WSZ is slow as balls but it's a decree on drugs when resolved. The only problem with it is it's really hard to Wish and cast WSZ on the same turn so you usually lose the surprise factor, but it's an impressive finisher that keeps coming back.

The maindeck is tweaked primarily to combat merfolks/goblins. I don't play the 9th counterslot because of the way my meta is: a lot more tribal than control/combo etc. A helix is essentially an answer similar to a counter against aggro decks. Helix has been spetacular at stabilizing games (I usually need about 15-25 life to win games). On a stick, it's just too unfair (I can ignore small attackers and just race them to the head). I do miss Wrath of God in a list with 2 FoF, so I might try to fit 1 Wrath in.

[kiblast]

Isn't that kind of like saying "I don't get the Peacekeepers in the sideboard when you're not even playing Eladamri's Call to tutor for it?"

He's playing 2 in sb. I appreciate PKeepers in SB and I think that the correct number (considering the amount of removal in almost any Landstill build) is 2-3. 2 is fine. If you don't get the difference between playing 1 copy of a card, or playing 2, you're dekbuilding your decks in a bad way, and maybe you never used a Restricted card in Vintage. Useless post indeed.

@Metal:

I could understand your ''singleton'' policy regarding cards, such as Humility, FoF, Forbid that you don't really NEED to see to win. But Spell Snare is too important in legacy to ever think of running less than 2x. If you think that after Survival Ban Spell Snare's power decreased, frankly you are wrong. It's one of the key spells in Landstill and playing it singleton is like playing 1 Standstill.

Karakas is a different thing. I mean if you want to play it it's ok, but in my opinion non fetchable singleton is useless. Cmon, how many times you will need it in a swiss- and most important thing menage to draw it!; and how many times in a swiss you would have loved a Glacial Fortress or a Plains instead? I think it's a rhetorical question. The fact is: you can certainly run it, but when you need it (1% of a tournament) you will never have it and when you don't need it (99% of the tournament) you will have it and have it Waste'd , or don't have it. It's not a great deal if you ask me.

[GGoober]

Take this for example:

I am building a landstill list with 51 fixed cards that I CANNOT change. Now I need 9 slots for counters. What can I run?

since I have to play 4 FoW, I'll go down to 5 cards that I have to pick from: Spell Pierce (aweful), Counterspell, Spell Snare.

I hope you understand what I mean that running 1 is no different than running 2, because at the point when you choose a 4/1 split of counterspell/snare, you are already recognizing that counterspell is still more important than snare (which it is in post-survival meta). However, if your meta demands more 2cmc answers, then you may do a 3/2 split or even a 2/3 split, or start asking what cards you can cut from the other 51 cards to make room for more than 9 counterspells.

It's all dependent on the list. If I can only spare 9 slots, then there's only 5 non-FoW counters I can play, and I weigh Counterspell v.s. Snare. If I came to a 4/1 split, it "looks" awkward but it is essentially the ideal configuration. This obviously depends on what the other 51 cards do to complement the split of counterspell/snares. If you have enough early removal/answers, then counterspell is stronger, but if yuor list is focused to a lot of high cmc bombs and less removal maindeck e.g. not running 5th stp or more turn 2 removals, you may need the snares to complement your late-game.

I don't think FoF/Wrath/Humility being 'bombs' differ any different from the reasoning on choosing cards optimally for your deck. You don't play control because I want to play Humility to own aggro. You play Humility because you need it against aggro based on your strategy (how you are winning, what the meta is positioned). You play Jace because you are planning to win with Jace not because he's good (that's a secondary effect of playing Jace). similarly you play the 1 snare because you simply cannot fit it in the 5 non-FoW slot without realizing that Counterspell is still more critical than spell snares. Obviously metagames will change whether snare > counterspell.

[Tinefol]

If you're running Cunning Wish, don't try to squeeze all the fancy stuff in your sideboard. You only need some specific cards, everything else should be sideboardable in as normal.

1 removal slot (PtE or Diabloic Edict if you run black)
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Art/Ench removal slot. I like Return to Dust the most
1-2 Grave hate slot. Extirpate and/or Ravenous Trap, both if you have black.
1 Etutor (I love tutor packages in the S/B - they save you space for hate, and you can wish for one if you need EE or Humility/Moat).

1 WSZ is something I haven't tested yet but it could be good.

For everything beyond that: run normal S/B. This is what I'm running in my UWb Walker deck:

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARC] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 1 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [5E] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 2 [WL] Peacekeeper
SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap

[Patrick]

I do not understand people wanting to play White Sun's Zenith. Decree of Justice is strictly better based on the facts that:

1: It cannot be countered.
2: If they want to Stifle the soldiers you aren't stuck sinking all of your mana into it.
3: It draws a card.
4: It can be done under Standstill.
5: You don't have to let your opponent know what you're about to do.

White Sun's Zenith either loses 3 guys or all of it's surprise factor, Decree of Justice comes out of nowhere and can Wrath your opponent out of the game OR draw you three cards (courtesy of Standstill). Zenith makes 2/2's only if Humility is not in play, and this is when Decree really shines. I can't get past the anti-synergies that Zenith creates or the fact that you have to burn a Cunning Wish for it and give your opponent time to get ready.

At the Wish board:

There is no reason to run Ravenous Trap and Tormod's Crypt. Crypt is pretty awful and Trap plus Extirpate are good enough to beat graveyard hate. In all of our testing with Cunning Wish we're something like 14-2 in matches against Dredge. CoP: Red seems like a joke, that is what Pulse of the Fields is for. Wheel of Sun and Moon falls in the same place as Crypt. Extirpate, Trap, Crypt and Wheel is waaaaaaay too much graveyard hate. 2 Enlightened Tutors seems a little shaky, but whatever. I'm mostly worried about your lack of Negate. Negate really shines in the control mirror, and against combo decks.

[TheShaun]

I see you're from Halfmoon! I grew up there for 17 years (behind Wal Mart-ish off Rt 9) and went to Shen. Do you plan to attend this event? You should, it's not too far!



Yeah I'll be there. I'm not actually from Halfmoon though, just live there now. I go to most of the Comic Depot tournaments. Looking forward to seeing you there, but not looking forward to playing you. This is a terrible terrible matchup for me.

[Iron Buddha]

I think White Sun's Zenith is played because you can wish for it.

[Tinefol]

I do not understand people wanting to play White Sun's Zenith
There is only one reason you want to run it: Decree isn't wishable, and WSZ is as close to win condition as you could get in a wish slot. The next best thing is something as shitty as Hunting Pack, lol. I haven't tested WSZ though, it might turn out to be a crappy wincon, being not worth the slot.


There is no reason to run Ravenous Trap and Tormod's Crypt. Crypt is pretty awful and Trap plus Extirpate are good enough to beat graveyard hate.
Wheel of Sun and Moon falls in the same place as Crypt. Extirpate, Trap, Crypt and Wheel is waaaaaaay too much graveyard hate.
I like flexibility. Crypt is there for ETutor because you can tutor it on your upkeep turn two and activate it the same turn. If you're not that pressed, you can tutor up a Relic/Wheel. You cant wish for Trap that quickly, can you?
And Crypt/Wheel are really there for Dredge, I rarely side it against anything else (Wheel against Loam). And lands maybe (nobody plays em, though). 5 graveyard hate slots is about as many as needed if you want to consistently beat Dredge. Last tournament had 5 Dredge players, damn them.


CoP: Red seems like a joke, that is what Pulse of the Fields is for.
Pulse is about too slow against Burn/Sligh, which is omnipresent in my meta. That's why I run CoP:Red (and its tutorable!). It also has an added bonus of splash-hitting goblins.


I'm mostly worried about your lack of Negate. Negate really shines in the control mirror, and against combo decks.
Not present in my meta :) As for combo, screw that, I'd rather tutor up a Canonist. I run 11 counters MD to protect it.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Comparing a Wishboard Zenith to Decree doesn't make any sense. It's not like you could Wish for a Decree. Once you run three Wishes, White Sun's Zenith is an easy way to make (pretty) sure you're not going to time out because you get an extremely fast wincon you have a lot of access to but that won't clutter up your hand (eight mana is easy for Landstill once it's ready to win and gives you ten power aka a two-turn clock).

Note that that doesn't necessarily mean you need to or even should run it, but it does mean "lol, WSZ is so much worse than Decree" is a non-sensical argument if you talk about WSZ as a Wish-target.

Unrelated to the Wish-board issue: The main reason I'd consider Decree better than Zenith is its synergy with Standstill. Without that, I think WSZ is probably a stronger card because it's much easier to trade 2/2s against opposing creatures early on than 1/1s (buying back the card drawn of Decree) and 2/2s provide a far more relevant clock against control than 1/1s do, making Zenith more than a glorified Fog/draw a card early game and a better finisher lategame.