Obscure Cards with Latent Potential

[mlschuma]

I already built a "modern" version of the deck and played it in mtgo. It was fun. Next thing Im gonna try wishboard for it... :cool:

One of my all time favorite combos. Especially against new players who've never seen it before and have to wrap their minds around the combo. While bouncing it is fun, just riding the +20 Life and watching someone struggle withe Cumulative Upkeep is also great.

I've done it a couple ways: UW, with counter magic to stall and Enlightened Tutor for consistency.

Mono-U: with High Tide as a stand-in for Dark Ritual

Mono-U: with the stompy-lands, CoTV, 3sphere, Tangle-Wire, and the always underrated Parallax Tide

UW: Alternate win in Replenish with Seal of Removal, Parallax Wave, and Opalescence.

It's definitely not tournament quality (the last time I took it to one, Storm decks were called IGGy Pop). But it's a great casual card.

[rufus]

Sorry this might be a wrong thread, but I didn't feel like creating a new for this question.

I played against Illusions of Grandeur / Donate combo deck in mtgo. Is that some sort of old combo deck? I didn't get to see him go off but I saw both of the cards in his hand with gitprobe. I would be very grateful if someone could point me into a decklist or a thread that discusses that idea.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?9441-Deck-Trixorz

[thefreakaccident]

Impending Disaster

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=12426

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Impending Disaster

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=12426

That's some funny anti-Miracles sb tech. Frankly, this does very little against the CB lock and repeated board swipes, but I'd love to see some good old creaturegeddon action in action once more. :cool:

[Di]

Impending Disaster

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=12426

I played this card in my first Standard deck back in 1999. Someone PLEASE break this. For 13-year-old me.

[Echelon]

They did. It's called Armageddon.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

I always liked the Krovikan Horror and Tortured Existence engine that could recycle effects like Shriekmaw or Fleshbag Marauder. Sadly, it's total shit compared to much better engines that utilize the 'yard like Loam or Dredge, yet is hit even harder by all the splash damage.

Maybe one day this engine could get a shot in the arm. Until then, it's a really fun casual deck.

[rufus]

I always liked the Krovikan Horror and Tortured Existence engine that could recycle effects like Shriekmaw or Fleshbag Marauder. Sadly, it's total shit compared to much better engines that utilize the 'yard like Loam or Dredge, yet is hit even harder by all the splash damage...

I think Squee, Goblin Nabob was a more popular card that did similar things with Survival of the Fittest. They exist, but there aren't many situations where horror is going to be better. I could imagine a deck that runs four of both in combination with bulk discard effects like Zombie Infestation or Tolarian Winds.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Other foramts exist!
I played Krovikan Horror in GWB SotF EDH.

[Dr. No Face]

Any potential in Eyes of the Wisent?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eyes%20of%20the%20wisent

I doubt it, just curious.

[ahg113]

They did. It's called Armageddon.

M'eh. Impending Disaster sounds like something Burn could use to hate out Miracles or a BUG variant without Blood Moon. Or for bad lulz, Lands. If they reprinted it, with a damage component, it'd def be sideboard material. Even if it's only 1 damage per land.

[gainsay]

I remember a wacky deck that involved Spellweaver Helix (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/247.html) with cards like Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse and Raven's Crime (which mostly powered it) and I think Loam.

[Infinitium]

I've played that in a BGU control shell, using 4x Intuition to tutor out a Life from the Loam/Temporal Manipulation Spellweaver Helix which proceeded to take infinite turns and win off Worm Harvest. Basically you used your first Loam for an Academy Ruins/Engineered Explosives or Wasteland/Raven's Crime recursion engine depending on matchup and then proceeded to eot Intuition for an immediate way to close the game out before the opponent could break the lock. Funny and effective (especially as Helix was the only truly dead card required), but Jace and all the maindeckable graveyard hate the format could ask for quickly rendered it obsolete.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Any potential in Eyes of the Wisent?

I guess none. But I got my set, it's a nice card.

[apple713]

hidden gibbons
hidden herd

90% of legeacy decks are likely to trigger both of these completely undercosted creatures.

there are also others that trigger on opponent casting artifact, and controlling a creature with power 4 or greater. The above two are easily the best.

[MaximumC]

hidden gibbons
hidden herd

90% of legeacy decks are likely to trigger both of these completely undercosted creatures.

there are also others that trigger on opponent casting artifact, and controlling a creature with power 4 or greater. The above two are easily the best.

Those are great cards, but conditional 3/3s ground pounders for G are just not playable in today's eternal. See: all the Naya aggro decks not running around.

[gainsay]

hidden gibbons
hidden herd

90% of legeacy decks are likely to trigger both of these completely undercosted creatures.

there are also others that trigger on opponent casting artifact, and controlling a creature with power 4 or greater. The above two are easily the best.

Gibbons are used pretty often I think

[apple713]

Those are great cards, but conditional 3/3s ground pounders for G are just not playable in today's eternal. See: all the Naya aggro decks not running around.

even though they are conditional they are extremely likely to either trigger, or restrict your opponent.

if burn can earn some spots there is no reason why a deck with a bunch of 1 drop 3/3s couldn't make it work.

[apple713]

Gibbons are used pretty often I think
incorrect
http://i.imgur.com/XL6pddjl.png (http://imgur.com/XL6pddj)

[MaximumC]

even though they are conditional they are extremely likely to either trigger, or restrict your opponent.

if burn can earn some spots there is no reason why a deck with a bunch of 1 drop 3/3s couldn't make it work.

Huh? Wild Nacatal is a 3/3 for G with a similarly easy condition and it sees no play. Burn might play a dork or two at first but then goes over the top with damage spells for the win. None of this looks good for the Hidden family.

[TsumiBand]

All this talk of Naya cards that aren't seeing play anymore prompts me to recall Steppe Lynx -- I wonder if the potential for speed that comes out of a list of Steppe Lynx/Swiftspear and the usual burn suspects could steal wins from all these aggro Blue decks running around these days. Cats be like

turn 1 - Steppe Lynx
turn 2 - fetch crack (4/5 Lynx), Monastery Swiftspear, burn/PtE stuffs, swing for 6 / 7 (+burn damage could be 9 / 10 to the FASE, the most important PLASE for burns)
turn 3 - fetch crack, burn stuffs and/or PtE stuffs moar, have large angries, make life total drop, sad opponent die
turn 4 - get prize, eat, drive home

Nice Delver fishdick

[apple713]

All this talk of Naya cards that aren't seeing play anymore prompts me to recall Steppe Lynx -- I wonder if the potential for speed that comes out of a list of Steppe Lynx/Swiftspear and the usual burn suspects could steal wins from all these aggro Blue decks running around these days. Cats be like

turn 1 - Steppe Lynx
turn 2 - fetch crack (4/5 Lynx), Monastery Swiftspear, burn/PtE stuffs, swing for 6 / 7 (+burn damage could be 9 / 10 to the FASE, the most important PLASE for burns)
turn 3 - fetch crack, burn stuffs and/or PtE stuffs moar, have large angries, make life total drop, sad opponent die
turn 4 - get prize, eat, drive home

Nice Delver fishdick

turn 1 - Steppe Lynx
turn 2 - fetch crack (4/5 Lynx), Monastery Swiftspear, crop rotation (swift 2/3)-> fetch crack , berserk (lynx 16/9, swift 3/4) lightning bolt / PTE, fireblast, -> 28 dmg (23 without fireblast)

[rufus]

turn 1 - Steppe Lynx
turn 2 - fetch crack (4/5 Lynx), Monastery Swiftspear, crop rotation (swift 2/3)-> fetch crack , berserk (lynx 16/9, swift 3/4) lightning bolt / PTE, fireblast, -> 28 dmg (23 without fireblast)

T1 Lynx
T2: Fetch, Crack, Crop Rotate -> fetch, crack, Tainted Strike (Assault Strobe could work too.)

I want to see someone make an 'infect' deck with Steppe Lynx, Immolating Souleater and Kiln Fiend, with Bersek,Assault Strobe, and Tainted Strike - one from A, two from B for the win.

[TsumiBand]

...you guys left out the part where you eat and drive home
PTQ Ouagadougu is no place for a mighty warrior, you must go home

[H]

In the times before Mental Misstep, a friend of mine had been tearing up Standard FNMs with Boros Landfall, so when a Vintage tournament came around, I joked he should play it adding some Moxes and better equipment. He actually did and was 1 game win away from a top 8, but his opponent went Turn 1 Trinisphere on the play (for the second time that match).

Oh, and then we ate dinner and went home, :cool:

If I found a meta where no one played Sword to Plowshares I would play the hell out of that for teh LULz.

[NilsH]

Steppe Lynx and Swiftspear wants different deck shells. With Lynx you want some additional fetchlands, but with Swiftspear you want some additional cantrips (and thus reduced landcount). Same thing with Delver, it's a great creature but it can't be played in a heavy creature deck.

Regarding Steppe Lynx it's a good card. I've played it in Zoo splashing for Daze and Brainstorms. It doesn't seem good in the current meta as people are prepared for small creatures with cheap sweepers (Electricery, Pyroclasm, Toxic etc).

[apple713]

anyone messed around with academy rector? card is on the reserve list, and currently has 0 mainstream uses.

[Bobmans]

anyone messed around with academy rector? card is on the reserve list, and currently has 0 mainstream uses.
The Academy Rector used to be one of my favorite cards and still holds some nostalgia.

The problem with the card is that it is kind of slow, plus it is pretty easy to hate it. Swords to Plowshares prevents it from doing anything and Deathrite Shaman in response to the trigger also prevents its ability.

I have played the card in different NicFit shells running Rector in JUNK into Collective Blessing or Humility. Or a 4 color version with Omniscience and Ermakul (Saccing the Rector with Diabolic Intent fetching Emrakul).

As i said it is kinda slow, it is fairly easy to hate and it requires a large portion of the decklist. In the past it was also used in a RWb Sneak Attack list or Survival of the Fittest running Enduring Renewal, Goblin Bombardement and Shield Sphere.

[Meekrab]

Guttural Response seems like it should be seeing some more action, no?

[wonderPreaux]

Guttural Response seems like it should be seeing some more action, no?

What deck couldn't be running REB/P-Blast to greater effect than this card? Elves with Ruric often have a Taiga and Birchlore so as not to rely on Gutteral's split green

[Darkenslight]

What deck couldn't be running REB/P-Blast to greater effect than this card? Elves with Ruric often have a Taiga and Birchlore so as not to rely on Gutteral's split green

Because both cards hose both Force and BS? The Blasts have better functionality, but I see no reason why players can't hate on the Blue shell further. IT also stops Pierce and Daze cold like the Blasts.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Speaking of Guttural Response, has anyone tried Vexing Shusher? It seems like it could do work in the right shell. Obviously Elves could probably use it, not that they'd really need it with access to discard. Personally, I'd like to see people bring back Chalice Green now that green has access to 2 removal spells (2 whole spells!) at 3 mana and Root Maze is a thing that can happen to all the fetches. Maybe even more reason to run Hidden Gibbons? I'm sure a lot of it is goldfishing in Christmas Land, but the temptation will always be there for me, just a few hundred dollars away.

[ESG]

Because both cards hose both Force and BS? The Blasts have better functionality, but I see no reason why players can't hate on the Blue shell further. IT also stops Pierce and Daze cold like the Blasts.

Guttural Response fails to counter Treasure Cruise, Counterbalance, and Jace, which is a pretty large hole. I could see Guttural Response being played in a deck that couldn't splash red for red Blasts, but otherwise it's excessively narrow. If you're mono-green or something, you could just play Choke.


Speaking of Guttural Response, has anyone tried Vexing Shusher? It seems like it could do work in the right shell.

Yes, Vexing Shusher is basically a staple in Burn sideboards.


Personally, I'd like to see people bring back Chalice Green now that green has access to 2 removal spells (2 whole spells!) at 3 mana and Root Maze is a thing that can happen to all the fetches.

May I direct you to the Sylvan Plug thread?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28759-Sylvan-Plug-%28or-whatever-splashed-Green-stompy%29

[Pastorofmuppets]

Yes, Vexing Shusher is basically a staple in Burn sideboards.


I was actually wondering if a blue shell could run it, seems to go along with the draw-go aspect of some Delver lists. Being able to fight their removal with countermagic while simulataneously protecting your own counters seems pretty good to me.



May I direct you to the Sylvan Plug thread?


Not enough Obscured Orangutans or Underground Treepart Labyrinths for my silly tastes.

Totally stole this mention from digging through that thread but I remember making troll threads on other forums about stompy lists with Caltrops. Seems neat against Pyromancer now though. Legacy is a weird game, man.

[bruizar]

Caltrops is old tech. Caltrops was first used in Bridgewalker as a way to deal with Noble Hierarch under Ensnaring Bridge when maverick was still hot. Bridgewalker became UB Tezzeret. 2011..
Original thread here:
http://www.legacy-france.org/index.php?showtopic=6404

[Pastorofmuppets]

Caltrops is old tech. Caltrops was first used in Bridgewalker as a way to deal with Noble Hierarch under Ensnaring Bridge when maverick was still hot. Bridgewalker became UB Tezzeret.

Yeah, I figured. I've been out of the loop on some of the less-complained-about Legacy tech the past few years. Personally, I still like Zealous Persecution more but not every deck has access to the necessary colors. Does Caltrops actually hit TNN though?

[Fatal]

Answer is - NO it doesn't hit since you control Caltrops and it deals dmg - protection stops from:
Targeting, Dmg, Blocking, Enchanting.

[FoolofaTook]

Speaking of Guttural Response, has anyone tried Vexing Shusher? It seems like it could do work in the right shell. Obviously Elves could probably use it, not that they'd really need it with access to discard. Personally, I'd like to see people bring back Chalice Green now that green has access to 2 removal spells (2 whole spells!) at 3 mana and Root Maze is a thing that can happen to all the fetches. Maybe even more reason to run Hidden Gibbons? I'm sure a lot of it is goldfishing in Christmas Land, but the temptation will always be there for me, just a few hundred dollars away.

Vexing Shusher makes your stuff uncounterable at the expense of an additional mana (or two depending on the opponent's responses). That's not the problem right now for non-blue lists. The problem for non-blue lists is having no effective way to interact with things like Show and Tell outside of red and not being able to keep up with the blue shell's consistency over time.

If you play 4 of a great non-blue card like Sensei's Divining Top, Green Sun's Zenith, Aether Vial, etc you can easily get caught in the trap of having them show up in multiples when you don't need them. The blue shell fixes problems like that with ease. Everybody else labors under them. When there's a card or two you really want to see at some point, well the blue shell will see those cards much more often than non-blue. Then you have the problems related to distribution of lands in your opening hand and early draws. Again, the blue shell manages problems like these and almost all non-blue shell lists labor under them.

It's the blue shell that is the problem. It's got a monopoly on card consistency and strategic cohesion and only a small number of lists outside of blue can compete with the blue shell and even then from a position of minor inferiority.

Magic is a game of chance. The blue shell makes it less so but doesn't remove the chance element. As a comparison if you were playing hold-em and you had the choice of having a King or a Ten in the hole which one would you choose every time? Yeah, you can lose to a pair of Tens in that situation but you're always going to play the King as your opener on the table if you have the choice.

[apple713]

timesifter just thinking it might work well with stranglehold idk, something about taking extra turns and turning off fetch lands is appealing.

seems more like a EDH strategy but stranglehold seems legit in legacy right now.

angel of jubilation also seems alright to turn off fetch lands. aven mindsensor is clearly what ppl perfer but it's not being played as much now.

[Tylert]

timesifter just thinking it might work well with stranglehold idk, something about taking extra turns and turning off fetch lands is appealing.

seems more like a EDH strategy but stranglehold seems legit in legacy right now.

angel of jubilation also seems alright to turn off fetch lands. aven mindsensor is clearly what ppl perfer but it's not being played as much now.

4 mana is a lot to stop fetch lands. Aven mindcensor does it better most of the time as the fetch land is sacrificed and won't stay there until they remove our creature.

[rufus]

timesifter just thinking it might work well with stranglehold idk, something about taking extra turns and turning off fetch lands is appealing.

seems more like a EDH strategy but stranglehold seems legit in legacy right now.

angel of jubilation also seems alright to turn off fetch lands. aven mindsensor is clearly what ppl perfer but it's not being played as much now.

If you lose the timesifter 'clash' and stranglehold is in play, then the normal turn order will happen. (If both libraries are out of cards, does timesifter cause a tie game?)

I'm not sure how Angel of Jubilation would stop fetchlands.

[thefreakaccident]

If you lose the timesifter 'clash' and stranglehold is in play, then the normal turn order will happen. (If both libraries are out of cards, does timesifter cause a tie game?)

I'm not sure how Angel of Jubilation would stop fetchlands.

Can't pay life...

[gainsay]

timesifter just thinking it might work well with stranglehold idk, something about taking extra turns and turning off fetch lands is appealing.


A combo of a 4 cmc and 5 cmc card that doesn't essentially win the game isn't too great

[Scott]

Zirilan of the Claw :cool: Why, yes; I did spend my allowance collecting dragon cards when I was a kid.

Dragon unban bump? :really:

[kinda]

Black vise?

[ESG]

Black vise?

Black Vise faces several hurdles to playability:

1) It's strongest on the first turn of the game and when you're on the play. It's usually dead when you draw it after Turn 3 or Turn 4.

2) Force of Will. Force of Will is the most devastating and common answer, live on Turn Zero. Force of Will doesn't just counter your first Vise, though -- it also neuters your future Vises unless you have a way to force your opponent to draw cards, since your opponent is conveniently lowering his or her hand size.

3) Mulligans. Any mulligan your opponent happens to take weakens the Vise. This makes Vise's damage output more inconsistent even if you have it Turn 1 on the play.

4) Legacy is fairly fast format, which means your opponent can kill you long before Vise damage is relevant or can quickly empty his or her hand, making Vise irrelevant.

5) Vise needs to kill via damage, and life gain is conveniently stapled onto Deathrite Shaman, which is one of the more commonly played cards.

The most likely strategies to implement Black Vise are mana denial and Stasis. Creatures are usually a more reliable way for mana-denial decks to close the game out, and Deathrite Shaman is a pretty good foil to mana denial. Stasis is a relic that sees occasional play but isn't much more than a stunt deck. It's possible that Vise could be playable in a modified Death & Taxes shell or a Steel Stompy shell, but D&T probably would prefer creatures, and Vise conflicts with Chalice in Steel Stompy.

[bruizar]

Path to Mettle in some sort of Imperial Taxes list

[pettdan]

Path of Mettle for anyone unfamiliar with this card. You can add the [ cards ] and [ /cards ] tags before and after the card name to have it automagically linked.

[Megadeus]

That card would be sweet if it could kill a fucking true name. Unfortunately red sweepers are largely unplayable in part because of that piece of shit

[H]

That card would be sweet if it could kill a fucking true name. Unfortunately red sweepers are largely unplayable in part because of that piece of shit

I guess, but it's also not very good because it kills your own Mothers, Wisps, Revokers, and Recruiters, costs 3 to cast while Thalia, one of the few creatures you have exempt from the damage, is on the board.

[Wilkin]

That card would be sweet if it could kill a fucking true name. Unfortunately red sweepers are largely unplayable in part because of that piece of shit

I did recently see a funny Dragon Stompy list with 1 maindeck Jokaulhaups and one sideboard. Kills true name dead, plus leaves your Blood Moons, Blood Suns (don't know if that MTGO list played that one) and all your planeswalkers safe.

[Fox]

Path to Mettle in some sort of Imperial Taxes list
I think you're missing the most obvious shell: burn, they already run 8 haste critters. White mode on flip side says "choose at random...destroy" - that kills solo-attacking TNN (or can randomly kill group-attacking TNN). If they sit behind the TNN wall, you keep shocking opponent EoT.

Don't think anyone has mentioned it yet (search yielded no results), but Blood Funnel is a pretty silly card. Almost worded in such a way that Angel of Jubilation would work to prevent Mentor/YP from invalidating the Donate-type ideas.

[bruizar]

I think you're missing the most obvious shell: burn, they already run 8 haste critters. White mode on flip side says "choose at random...destroy" - that kills solo-attacking TNN (or can randomly kill group-attacking TNN). If they sit behind the TNN wall, you keep shocking opponent EoT.

Don't think anyone has mentioned it yet (search yielded no results), but Blood Funnel is a pretty silly card. Almost worded in such a way that Angel of Jubilation would work to prevent Mentor/YP from invalidating the Donate-type ideas.

Yes, Burn makes more sense. Path of Mettle such as insane card. I can see it make a huge appearance in standard in a boros ramunapless red deck. Ahn-Crop Crasher, Bomat Courier, Earthshaker Khenra, Hazoret the Fervent, Kari Zev, Skyship Raider and Glorybringer all have haste or first strike.

I used to have a blood funnel / donate deck back when people didn't run creatures in vintage. Used bitterblossom, frantic search, bloodghast and spellstutter sprites too, and the one of illusions of grandeur ofcourse. (Frantic Search for U is pretty good with bloodghasts). Also, donating Blood Funnel for U is nice. This was years ago.

[Fox]

Well I've skimmed through this entire thread. There was definitely a mention of Krovikan Horror, but I think the more playable is Bloodghast + Death Spark - it's incredibly questionable (just make a Grisel), but Death Spark will always protect Ghast from exile and will reliably put a creature directly on top for the value return to hand trigger. The mechanics at work are 1 dmg on Ghast, Spark to yard, check SBAs -> put Ghast on top of Spark.

There was a mention of Pedantic Learning, and while it is perhaps more interesting with Azcanta (unflipped) I don't see the need to have a value orgy with those two cards + Loam and Library...but you could do it. Probably the better interaction is Courser of Kruphix + Sylvan Library which maintains value regardless of yard hate. At this point in legacy people know about Liliana, the Last Hope, but there's probably a mechanically interesting Loam/Pox deck where you have this idea of dredging 3 cards off a Library trigger (so a mix of Darkblast and Loam) and put none back. Add Last Hope into the mix and you're ripping over 9 cards per turn and proceed to buyback one of your two Eternal Witness and then regrow some silver bullet (so a card like Deed). The wincon would be Last Hope ult or concession to land destruction? The point of this tangent is that sideboarding into Courser/Library synergy maybe makes a post-board game winnable through yard hate....but none of this changes the fact that Pedantic Learning is sweet. :cool:

There is a very strange vintage interaction of Time Vault and Teferi's Protection where you can give your opponent two largely meaningless turns in a row (your stuff is phased out, and you the player will remain effectively phased out) in exchange for two turns in a row of your own. Probably more interesting than playable, but it's definitely obnoxious.

I don't remember seeing a single mention of Skill Borrower, but it's a pretty easy combo with Bstorm/Griselbrand. You could also add Volrath's Shapeshifter into the mix.

Some pretty self-explanatory, silly two-card combos:
Song of the Dryads/Imprisoned in the Moon + Thespian's Stage (just don't copy a walker)
Avatar of Might + Varchild's War-Riders/Forbidden Orchard
To build on the previous example: Illness in the Ranks + Dingus Staff
Desert + Siegehorn Ceratops (feel free to play Nomads en-Kor for full-on lulz)
Orzhov Charm + Death's Shadow shell.
Vengeful Pharaoh + Predict
Shallow Grave + Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Winter Orb + Metallic Rebuke
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Stern Judge (or any Swamp hate)
Rainbow Vale + punisher effects like Price of Progress/Primal Order/Rivalry/Power Surge/Land Tax
Taniwha + instant speed 'Geddon or Balance (does not yet exist???)

Also found a real gem for people who don't like 4c piles: Mask of Intolerance
...and for the DnT players out there who can't stand TNN fogging your equipped guys: Mtenda Herder

[Claymore]

Taniwha + instant speed 'Geddon or Balance (does not yet exist???)


Impending Disaster is probably your best bet.

[Fox]

Impending Disaster is probably your best bet.

Intervening *if* clause. Both triggers would be on the stack, you'd phase out your lands, and then there would be less than 7 lands and Disaster would not strike.

[Barachai]

Intervening *if* clause. Both triggers would be on the stack, you'd phase out your lands, and then there would be less than 7 lands and Disaster would not strike.

Cascade into Restore Balance, phase out? Very mana intensive unfortunately.

ED: As Foretold helps. Still not sure if interaction is good.

[Claymore]

Intervening *if* clause. Both triggers would be on the stack, you'd phase out your lands, and then there would be less than 7 lands and Disaster would not strike.

Not if you're playing against Durdle Miracles or Lands...but good catch.

Edit: As Foretold with 'Geddon effects is probably good anyway. Impending Disaster, Armageddon, whatever.

As far as I know, the only other instant speed Geddon effect is decree of annihilation

[Fox]

Cascade into Restore Balance, phase out? Very mana intensive unfortunately.

ED: As Foretold helps. Still not sure if interaction is good.

You'd have to set up an honest Restore Balance and time it with a phasing-in of Taniwha, which isn't impossible. While everything would work with trigger stacking, the 6 turns of waiting would be the most suspect part of the plan. The instant-speed interactions are narrow: Omen of Fire and Boil which take advantage of floating mana in upkeep. There is a half-speed abuse in blue Stax using Mana Vortex but that's just worse than hard-locking someone with Dakmor Salvage. I'm fairly certain that Taniwha nonsense payoff card simply does not exist yet. :frown:

Decree of Annihilation was a good catch @Claymore. The cost is pretty prohibitive though...If WotC prints slips up and prints something like morph-Worldfire creature with ~1cmc and high unmorph cost, the trick might be legacy-costed given the power of the effect. (un-morph costs don't actually mean anything when you have a low cmc)

[kinda]

Paradigm shift, ancestral knowledge, and desperate research seem interesting. The latter two help you find food chain and exile scourge or Griffin.

[Mr. Safety]

A few cards I've been messing around with lately that I think *might* be legacy playable:

Smuggler's Copter
Hidden Stockpile
Ankh of Mishra


Copter seems to be good in a deck that is looking for an evasive threat that also has creatures that are valuable outside of combat (like Dark Confidant) and also need to filter draws into more action. Stockpile seems like it could be good in a Mardu based deck with Young Pyromancer and Goblin Bombardment, the scry seems very good and the tokens come right back. Ankh is old technology, but there are greedy mana-bases that are fetchland heavy in the DTB section (Czech Pile, Grixis Delver) as well as decks that play a lot of lands naturally (GR Lands, Nic Fit). Ankh has always been fringe playable, but Pile seems to be especially susceptible to a resolved Ankh.

[Von]

Dominate
good against flipped delver, good against 20/20s. Not weak to decay. Can be snapcastered/wished for if you have the mana.

[Whitefaces]

Dominate
good against flipped delver, good against 20/20s. Not weak to decay. Can be snapcastered/wished for if you have the mana.

Entrancing Melody is mostly an upgrade to Dominate. It's a sorcery, but costs one less.

[PirateKing]

Smuggler's Copter is no joke.

Played against a revived Painter's Stone deck that went t1 Ancient Tomb Smuggler's Copter, t2 Painter's Servant crew the Copter attack for 3, Mountain pass, held up REB for anything I played next.

[Mr. Safety]

Smuggler's Copter is no joke.

Played against a revived Painter's Stone deck that went t1 Ancient Tomb Smuggler's Copter, t2 Painter's Servant crew the Copter attack for 3, Mountain pass, held up REB for anything I played next.

I think the loot effect puts it in the playable category, because we can find better utility threats for almost any deck than a 3/3 flyer. When your key creatures aren't interested in attacking and aren't busy doing what they usually do, attacking for 3 in the air and looting is very appealing.

[PirateKing]

I think the loot effect puts it in the playable category, because we can find better utility threats for almost any deck than a 3/3 flyer. When your key creatures aren't interested in attacking and aren't busy doing what they usually do, attacking for 3 in the air and looting is very appealing.

It was working very well in that deck. As a replacement for Top, it gave them something easy to cast, gave Painter something to do besides sit there and enable the combo and blasts, it looted, and while not a Delver-aggro-to-death card, did put a clock on me to find answers. Not saying that Top isn't a better card, but in that deck, it was all upside.

[kinda]

Glint-sleeve siphoner due to its menace? It also won't kill you like bob...works OK with delve.

[Bosque]

Glint-sleeve siphoner due to its menace? It also won't kill you like bob...works OK with delve.

But also needs some other playable energy generator to be worth it since by itself, and assuming it's safe to attack, it will be 2 turns till you get your card, rather than one card like Bob. Is there another playable energy generator? I think I looked once and came away with thinking the answer was no...

[Erdvermampfa]

Custodi Lich. If Palace Jailer is good enough then this one has to be as well. Y'all been playing goodstuff value decks anyway

[Bosque]

Custodi Lich. If Palace Jailer is good enough then this one has to be as well. Y'all been playing goodstuff value decks anyway

Demon stompy...? But really, probably just Nic Fit.

[ESG]

Custodi Lich. If Palace Jailer is good enough then this one has to be as well. Y'all been playing goodstuff value decks anyway

Yep, I have this on my "one day" list. It can kill a True-Name Nemesis, which is something the Jailer could only dream of. We just need a metagame shift and the blink effects to pair it with.

[Fox]

Other than being a high-variance board-in against SnT, I think you'd probably be better off with something like The Scarab God over Custodi Lich. The recursion, yard shenanigans, pitch to FoW, and upkeep drain/scry has to be more reliable than Custodi, I'd think. In terms of other black 5-drop creatures, I think Archfiend of Ifnir is a better inclusion between cycling (into reanimation) or just this on board -> Faithless Looting....your team dies?

While Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is interesting, I'm not really sure what else you're doing to make this a reliable card draw engine other than maybe saying Greenbelt Rampager is good enough for legacy. Rampager definitely operates independently as a 1-mana 3/4 (though you might have to cast it three times) and revolt enabler [Fatal Push]...but it's less clear why you're allowing Rampager to steal slots from DRS/Delver/Goose or maybe even Tarmogoyf. You could definitely troll the format with say Crop Rotation for Swarmyard (Delver = insect) and Elephant Graveyard. Coming back to Siphoner, I'm just not sure how that card is getting played without Greenbelt in legacy - maybe there is some card that benefits from multiple castings of creatures (sure Glimpse of Nature works, but we're not seriously trying to assemble :g::g::g::g:). Would probably need to see something extraordinary to see this pair in legacy, one quick look and the only cards I'm seeing that could justify this (but are too slow) are Bygone Bishop, Hidden Stockpile, Lifecrafter's Bestiary, and Equilibrium - honestly, I think you'd have to see a mechanic or effect like ripple, legacy-costed, and on the Greenbelt to work our way backwards into the deck runs Siphoner because it could run the elephant. The more playable card almost certainly would have to be Asylum Visitor as it doesn't immediately have us asking "why aren't we playing the usual suspects?"

[Lord Seth]

Dominate
good against flipped delver, good against 20/20s. Not weak to decay. Can be snapcastered/wished for if you have the mana.Didn't they change it so that transformed cards still have their original CMCs?

[kinda]

Other than being a high-variance board-in against SnT, I think you'd probably be better off with something like The Scarab God over Custodi Lich. The recursion, yard shenanigans, pitch to FoW, and upkeep drain/scry has to be more reliable than Custodi, I'd think. In terms of other black 5-drop creatures, I think Archfiend of Ifnir is a better inclusion between cycling (into reanimation) or just this on board -> Faithless Looting....your team dies?

While Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is interesting, I'm not really sure what else you're doing to make this a reliable card draw engine other than maybe saying Greenbelt Rampager is good enough for legacy. Rampager definitely operates independently as a 1-mana 3/4 (though you might have to cast it three times) and revolt enabler [Fatal Push]...but it's less clear why you're allowing Rampager to steal slots from DRS/Delver/Goose or maybe even Tarmogoyf. You could definitely troll the format with say Crop Rotation for Swarmyard (Delver = insect) and Elephant Graveyard. Coming back to Siphoner, I'm just not sure how that card is getting played without Greenbelt in legacy - maybe there is some card that benefits from multiple castings of creatures (sure Glimpse of Nature works, but we're not seriously trying to assemble :g::g::g::g:). Would probably need to see something extraordinary to see this pair in legacy, one quick look and the only cards I'm seeing that could justify this (but are too slow) are Bygone Bishop, Hidden Stockpile, Lifecrafter's Bestiary, and Equilibrium - honestly, I think you'd have to see a mechanic or effect like ripple, legacy-costed, and on the Greenbelt to work our way backwards into the deck runs Siphoner because it could run the elephant. The more playable card almost certainly would have to be Asylum Visitor as it doesn't immediately have us asking "why aren't we playing the usual suspects?"

Vengevine is an interesting one with greenbelt along with buried alive/collective brutality.

[bruizar]

Yep, I have this on my "one day" list. It can kill a True-Name Nemesis, which is something the Jailer could only dream of. We just need a metagame shift and the blink effects to pair it with.

I've got custodi lich on my watch list too. Good body, draw engine and removal, all wrapped up in one card. I recently bought a Queen Marchesa because being the Monarch is nice.

[Von]

Didn't they change it so that transformed cards still have their original CMCs?

They did and that make this alot worse.

O̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶e̶ ̶P̶a̶l̶a̶c̶e̶ ̶J̶a̶i̶l̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶t̶u̶t̶o̶r̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶i̶m̶p̶e̶r̶i̶a̶l̶ ̶r̶e̶c̶r̶u̶i̶t̶e̶r̶.̶.̶.̶.̶L̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶. I however had no idea that being Monarch actually lets you draw cards eot, that is awesome to know.

Edit: I take that back...is it tutor able by the white one, because it check on toughness instead of power.

[kombatkiwi]

Yep, I have this on my "one day" list. It can kill a True-Name Nemesis, which is something the Jailer could only dream of. We just need a metagame shift and the blink effects to pair it with.

I have also considered it as a Grave Titan alternative in the SB of weird Lake-of-the-Dead monoblack reanimator decks

[Erdvermampfa]

Primal Order. I know that 4 is a lot and that it is restricted to decks with only or mostly basics but bruh...imagine dat against Grixis..

[Barook]

Primal Order. I know that 4 is a lot and that it is restricted to decks with only or mostly basics but bruh...imagine dat against Grixis..
You need to pay double the price and wait two turns to get the same effect as PoP. That just isn't good.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

You need to pay double the price and wait two turns to get the same effect as PoP. That just isn't good.

Ok, hear me out: a mono green deck that uses Mana dorks and
All those heavily pushed GGGGGGGGG creatures.

[Hopo]

Ok, hear me out: a mono green deck that uses Mana dorks and
All those heavily pushed GGGGGGGGG creatures.

You can immediately add those to downsides of playing Primal Order.

But why is no one playing Grim Discovery? I would have thought that at least Turbo Depths would at least try it out.

[rufus]

You can immediately add those to downsides of playing Primal Order.

But why is no one playing Grim Discovery? I would have thought that at least Turbo Depths would at least try it out.

I think something like Night's Whisper ends up being better, and even that basically sees no play.

[bruizar]

Runaway Steam-kin

[mistercakes]

Runaway Steam-kin

do you think steam kin is pretty good in a deck where you are just casting bolts? most it can be is a 4/4 without doing anything really crazy to get around it

[morgan_coke]

Nahiri, the Harbinger

- great abilities, ultimate is a game winner in two turns with Emrakul, just never seems to see any play.

[rufus]

Runaway Steam-kin

Considering the card is in a current set, I'm not sure it's that obscure.

There's a 3-card combo with Hazoret's Monument and Grinning Ignus. I imagine there's also some kind of necrotic ooze pile.

[rufus]

Reality Scramble seems like a card with potential. You could turn Jace, Telepath Unbound into Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, clue tokens into God-Pharaoh's Gift, or creature tokens into Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

[Cave]

Reality Scramble seems like a card with potential. You could turn Jace, Telepath Unbound into Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, clue tokens into God-Pharaoh's Gift, or creature tokens into Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

Looks spicy, but it has :r: :r: printed on it, and cmc4, and it also requires setup cards that either don't fit well in the format or don't fit well together (e.g. 4x Lingering Souls/Dragon fodder/Squadron Hawk + 4x Reality Scramble + 2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn).

I'll join the suboptimal train and and say Connive // Concoct. Same cmc of Sneak Attack+activate once, and it synergizes with Lim-Dûl's Vault and, of course, Brainstorm.
Make The Black Show happen.:laugh:

[Captain Hammer]

4 Basalt Monolith
4 Aphetto Alchemist
4 Wake Thrasher
4 Crackdown Construct

What would be the best shell for this two card combo? Blue Stompy alongside Intuition and FoW?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

4 Basalt Monolith
4 Aphetto Alchemist
4 Wake Thrasher
4 Crackdown Construct

What would be the best shell for this two card combo? Blue Stompy alongside Intuition and FoW?
You forgot power artifact!

[Captain Hammer]

You forgot power artifact!

What does power artifact add to the combo?

The 2 card combo makes infinite/infinite creatures. It doesn’t have any need or use for infinite mana.

[bruizar]

do you think steam kin is pretty good in a deck where you are just casting bolts? most it can be is a 4/4 without doing anything really crazy to get around it

i think it's a cheap, efficient beater that has utility. An added black lotus on it makes it ripe for abuse. I like Lava Dart with it, but there's plenty of stuff to play with this.

[filln]

What does power artifact add to the combo?

The 2 card combo makes infinite/infinite creatures. It doesn’t have any need or use for infinite mana.

I've too have been experimenting with these cards since Crackdown Construct was spoiled and I enjoy the extra avenue of attack that infinite mana provides. My favorite use of that mana is Walking Ballista, which is a great card in this deck anyway because the infinitely large creature have no evasion of any type and the Ballista can help clear the way.

[filln]

Reality Scramble seems like a card with potential. You could turn Jace, Telepath Unbound into Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, clue tokens into God-Pharaoh's Gift, or creature tokens into Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

I really want to jam Reality Scramble and Polymorph into a deck and make bad Sneak and Show.