Obscure Cards with Latent Potential [Archive]

wcm8

03-15-2011, 09:50 AM

Look at cards like Peacekeeper and Llawan. For many years these cards languished in dollar bins, and then suddenly once attention was focused on them, they skyrocketed to $10/apiece -- and they probably have more room for growth. I think that's a bit ridiculous for corner-case sideboard cards, but such is eternal Magic these days. Some cards were impossible to know that they were good until a future printing (e.g. Dark Depths before Vampire Hexmage). Even cards that were known to be good, but stayed at a relatively low price, end up jumping leaps and bounds in value (e.g. Maze of Ith).

What I'd like this thread to do is have a list of cards with -potential- use. Maybe they are very corner-case specific/narrow, maybe they seem 'impossible' to break, but the idea is for people to be aware of them and possibly get a playset while they are dirt cheap. I'd personally rather be out a couple bucks than miss the boat on some card getting broken down the line.

Some I've thought of:

Earthcraft -- when a banned card comes off the list, they tend to jump in value, even if it doesn't end up being spectacular (Grim Monolith for example)
Hermit Druid -- see above
Gustha's Scepter -- has an unusual effect, costs 0, and was once part of a combo deck.
Windfall
Tsabo's Web
Spinal Villain
Aboria
Damnation -- we see Wrath of God making its way into sideboards and maindecks, since Legiacy has slowed down a bit. It is not out of the question to see a black-based control deck make use of this sweeper

Any others people can think of? I'm sure there are plenty with undiscovered interactions waiting to be exploited.. I would have never guessed that Phyrexian Devourer would find use!

(nameless one)

03-15-2011, 10:25 AM

I have a feeling that Earthcraft is next to be unbanned. I think I will stock up on it (I totally missed out on Time Spiral when the local store had a playset for $5 each). I can see Earthcraft do really well in Elves Combo (if it ever gets unban).

Enchantress would use it to as an alternate win con or turning Argothian Enchantress into a mana-creature.

wcm8

03-15-2011, 10:39 AM

Also, buy your playset of Enlightened Tutors if you haven't yet! This card is just waiting to be exploited by a tier 1 strategy.

Re: Earthcraft, the card is very likely to come off the banned list in my opinion. While it can do broken things, it doesn't do anything worse or faster than a lot of other two card combos in legacy. Giving enchantress a boost is cool in my book too, I love to see niche strategies dominate more typical ones!

Greenpoe

03-15-2011, 11:49 AM

Garza's Assasin is a pretty neat alternative to Gatekeeper of Malakir. I built a deck around creatures that kill other creatures (Shriekmaw, Gatekeeper, Garza's Assasin, Vampire Nighthawk) plus Bob, Ritual and disruption with equipment (Jitte, SoFI) to buff them into win-cons. It worked well against anything that relied on creatures (including Emrakul and Progenitus), but I gave up on it because it had a number of horrific matchups (burn, control, enchantress). I also think Slaughter Pact is an overlooked alternative to Smother/Go For the Throat. When I've tested in as a 2-of in Eva Green, it's been much better than the ones where you have to pay mana immediately, just because there were so many times where my opponent would have two creatures out and I had removal in hand and creatures with only 3 lands. Then, you'd have to choose between either dropping a Goyf to block one and get hit by the other with a typical removal spell. With Slaughter Pact, it was always nice to drop a Goyf, then be able to block one and kill the other. Plus, if they decide not to attack because they're staring down a Goyf, you can save the removal for later.

Mr. Safety

03-15-2011, 12:13 PM

Mark Sun

03-15-2011, 12:28 PM

I think a card that is really flying under the radar ATM is Stillmoon Cavalier. It essentially has pro: all but red removal and has a couple of relavent abilities (pump and evasion) With Stoneforge Mystic getting so much attention recently (Deadguy Ale, Excalibur) Stillmoon seems like a great card.

Thoughts?

Seems really good, things with Pro-Swords generally do well when there is a lack of true board sweepers in the format. It can conditionally get around Firespout. About the Wrath of God/Damnation comment in the OP, I honestly haven't seen these in a competitive setting in so long that dedicated control is no longer a factor when I prepare for a tournament. Headed on a flight, I guess I'll troll the MWS database while I'm twiddling my thumbs.

Alexeezay

03-15-2011, 12:29 PM

android

03-15-2011, 12:31 PM

Michael Keller

03-15-2011, 12:38 PM

The one card that I've had my eye on forever is Thought Lash. Pretty sure it can auto activate Shelldock Isle. Unfortunately, I don't think you can wish back any of the removed cards but I'm thinking more along the lines of stack the bottom of your deck somehow (a bunch of cards do this - Commune with Nature, Ancient Stirrings, Impulse, Mindmoil, Mitotic Manipulation, Proteus Staff, scrye cards etc.).

2 x Conjurer's Bauble or SDT + Helm of Awakening + Storm?
Shelldrazi type deck (is Doomsday just better at this?)

Timesifter and Thought Lash was sort of a casual combo I was working on when it was first released. You use it in conjunction with cards like Field of Dreams, Soothsaying, or Lantern of Insight. The deck didn't pan out, but you mentioned Thought Lash so I thought I'd bring it up.

Of course, Brainstorm always helps too. But I tried making this work when Mana Drain was legal, so...

raijinnfury

03-15-2011, 12:53 PM

If Windfall weren't banned, it'd see a ton of play.

Gustha's Scepter does seem to be really interesting with Lion's Eye Diamond.

I'm surprised Gifts Ungiven hasn't been more abused, to be quite honest. Sure Intuition seems to be the blue tutor of choice, but Gifts can be pretty easily abused. Maybe it's simply the difference between 3 and 4 mana costs.

A few cards I've had my eye on for a while:
Arboria - Seems a lot like a Moat but for green. Plus since it says nontoken permanent, you could easily abuse this with something like Luminarch Ascension. :)
Land Equilibrium - Seems so abusable with things like Parallax Tide, City of Traitors and Crystal Vein. However, maybe it falls to the same plight as Stax, too little too late.
Goblin Wizard - A bit more controllish version of Goblins could heavily abuse this guy, especially when he could come down with Lackey on turn 2. Plus he has a relevant protection, pro-StP.
Suppression Field - I know there's a deck list floating around that uses this, but I'm just surprised it hasn't been explored further by deck builders. I mean from Top to Vial, fetches to equipment, this thing HOSES key spells in a bunch of decks.

android

03-15-2011, 02:03 PM

Winds of Change is another card with a huge effect and low cc. I have it in a crazy Psychic Possession deck with Consecrated Sphinx. Lots of bounce and counter (Arcane Denial is killer here). Then it wins with Niv-Mizzet or Spiraling Embers or Words of War or Conflagrate. I never have a problem with the card draw but it seems to be difficult to win sometimes. I need a better surefire way to end the game.

sco0ter

03-15-2011, 02:22 PM

(nameless one)

03-15-2011, 02:28 PM

Suppression Field - I know there's a deck list floating around that uses this, but I'm just surprised it hasn't been explored further by deck builders. I mean from Top to Vial, fetches to equipment, this thing HOSES key spells in a bunch of decks.

If only this only affected opponents. My pet deck, Quinn, could use something like this against Counterbalance and Top decks.

android

03-15-2011, 04:03 PM

How about Energy Field + Leyline of the Void + Leyline of Sanctity? You'd have to protect the leylines and drawing leylines later seems really bad.

bakofried

03-15-2011, 04:15 PM

You would need Planar Void to make it work.

Koby

03-15-2011, 04:22 PM

You would need Planar Void to make it work.

Planar Void is a trigger ability, which means both it and Energy Field would trigger, and you'd lose your protection.

bakofried

03-15-2011, 05:03 PM

Well, Leyline wouldn't work in either case. Leyline only affect's your opponents.

Uly Van Hammer

03-15-2011, 05:32 PM

Uly Van Hammer

03-15-2011, 05:33 PM

Didgeridoo
Someday... Wotc will make a minotaur block, and I will laugh deviously screaming "ITOLDYOUSO!!!!" to everyone.

kiblast

03-15-2011, 05:35 PM

Artificer's Intuition only waits for an Artifact Squee.

I was thinking that pitching 4 Sword of the Meek to search 4 Memnite means 4 2/3 Memnites for UUUU. That's fun.

obituary 95

03-15-2011, 05:54 PM

hunting grounds

Mr.C

03-15-2011, 06:33 PM

Didgeridoo
Someday... Wotc will make a minotaur block, and I will laugh deviously screaming "ITOLDYOUSO!!!!" to everyone.

Well, it does work with Lorwyn block shapeshifters.

Zork

03-15-2011, 06:55 PM

I have tried decks featuring many of these guys:

Panoptic Mirror
Mishra,Artificer Prodigy
Zur the Enchanter
Nomad Mythmaker
Ice Cauldron
Hecatomb
Teferi's Puzzlebox

and none of them have panned out. Fundamentally Stasis is also quite strong, but lacks enough cards that are both enablers and wincons. The closest I got to playable used artifact mana with Garruk and Tezzeret 1.0.

Carabas

03-15-2011, 07:20 PM

I saw a really interesting bant control deck that used enlightened tutor and energy field+wheel of sun and moon

It seemed like it had some potential.

Finn

03-15-2011, 07:27 PM

Transmute Artifact
Copy Artifact
Seeds of Innocence

...for starters. Transmute Artifact was $10 a few weeks ago. It is $20 now. There were very few of them printed. I have been telling people on this site to get them. It is cheaper than modern alternatives for what it does and it is a SEARCH card just waiting to be abused. Get them now or wish you had. Do Not Say I Did Not Warn You.

Nonex

03-15-2011, 08:03 PM

I'm tired of suspending Greater Gargadon and sacrificing Veteran Explorer, False Prophet, Academy Rector, Mindslicer, or pretty much anything equipped with Deathrender to it, apart from recurring things like Grave-Shell Scarab with Savra, Queen of the Golgari in play. Too bad that with the ban of Survival most of the black-based fun is lost. Now it's time for me to push Green Sun's Zenith to its limits, but that's another story.

Barook

03-15-2011, 08:23 PM

How about Energy Field + Leyline of the Void + Leyline of Sanctity? You'd have to protect the leylines and drawing leylines later seems really bad.

Samurai of the Pale Curtain works at least for permanents. However, you can't use spell-based proctection in that case and more something like Mother of Runes.

Fuzzy

03-15-2011, 08:46 PM

Artificer's Intuition only waits for an Artifact Squee.

Artificer's Intuition only waits a 1 mana or less Artifact Vengevine.

dahcmai

03-15-2011, 10:37 PM

Energy Field works just fine with Wheel of Sun and Moon btw.

I'm still waiting for people to catch onto Phyrexian Crusader. My god this guy is a beating. It's just too bad there's not much good infect stuff besides him. Throw a sword on him like the Body and Mind one and he just can't be stopped. There has to be a deck that can use that. It's flat unstoppable for most Legacy decks.

Transmute Artifact is one that I thought would eventually explode. It's one of the best tutors in the format now, especially due to the errata that changed the old sacrifice cost to be on resolution.

Aegis of Honor is another card I still use that has never got any fame. Best card ever for preventing Price of Progress or other extreme burn from hitting you.

Drop of Honey is stupid good vs Goblins, Merfolk, and Zoo. I proved that in Columbus. It's not bad against New Horizons and such either. I may not have done decent overall, but I sure beat the crap out of those decks when I hit them. Expensive and rare as hell is it's only problem.

Aura Fracture This one is a staple in any control build I have. I tend to make my control decks land heavy so it's always been perfect for the "Disenchant" slot I always have in a deck. Try it, it's golden vs anything with a bunch of enchantments.

Koth of the Hammer - You'd think that in Legacy we could make better use of a guy who can turn into a Hecatomb effect. Hecatomb was stupid good in it's day despite it's hideous cost. This guy should be seeing play just for that ability. Smashing lands into people or even just untapping them to re-use them seems pretty decent.

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas This guy WILL make it into Legacy. You can trust me on that.

Explore You'd think that with all the conversations about tempo, we'd use this more. It's pretty good at that whole tempo game. I picked up a set of foils of it lately since I am convinced there's a use for it. I saw a 3 color high tide deck using it lately no less.

Pyromancer Ascension This is on the edge of being a hell of a deck. Gerry T already was playing around with it. It's not going to take much to push it over the top. Anything that can run a ton of burn and counters and beat the hell out of a control deck should be examined heavily in Legacy.

Land Equilibrium I've tried so hard to break this card. Personally, I don't think it can be done, but it sure sounds like you should be able to. Maybe someday, someone will do it.

Telekinesis Another tempo style card. If you play standard, you know how devastating a Tumble Magnet can be. This is the Legacy version. It might actually be worth it. Very close to being extremely good.

nwong

03-15-2011, 10:56 PM

Um is there a reason I can only view the first page?

Wilkin

03-15-2011, 11:40 PM

How about Energy Field + Leyline of the Void + Leyline of Sanctity? You'd have to protect the leylines and drawing leylines later seems really bad.

How about instead of the Leylines, Wheel of Sun and Moon on yourself? If if someone where to say vindicate one of your lands, it would go to the bottom of your library instead of graveyard.

anonymos

03-15-2011, 11:41 PM

I was thinking that pitching 4 Sword of the Meek to search 4 Memnite means 4 2/3 Memnites for UUUU. That's fun.

Then you play the new Tezzeret and win?

TsumiBand

03-16-2011, 12:33 AM

I always thought Damping Matrix would be a good card.

Thousand-Year Elixir seemed always interesting in a Goblin Welder deck.
Artificer's Intuition only waits for an Artifact Squee.

And what about old Standard staples like Heartbeat of Spring?

Oh, and what about Leonin Arbiter? When this card was spoiled, people were super excited, "it hoses the entire format", they said... but I didn't really see it.

Artificer's Intuition seems like a card that's actually already broken, we just don't know how yet.

Heartbeat of Spring is like Howling Mine; your opponent untaps and uses it before you do. Therefore, meh.

Leonin Arbiter, I always figured doesn't get played because its effect is symmetrical, meaning you'd never want to play it with Stoneforge Mystic. Being a White Weenie and not having synergy with SFM is kind of a terrible idea right now.

rufus

03-16-2011, 01:43 AM

Artificer's Intution can work with Salvage Titan which isn't tutorable, but can be recycled multiple times per turn.

Thought Lash can be potent with top powered cards like Magus of the Future,Future Sight, and Skill Borrower (+Mirror of Fate?).

Gamble and -to a lesser degree- Wild Reasearch seem like they have potential.

Greater Good does have a pretty big casting cost, but the ability is potent. WotC recently printed Pact of the Titan and Briarhorn - both of which look pretty potent in combination with it, though Phyrexian Dreadnaught is the card that really breaks it.

The hideaway lands are laden with potential.

Holiday

03-16-2011, 02:48 PM

Didgeridoo... You could put a really big changeling into play with that I guess. What's the biggest Changeling?

Julian23

03-16-2011, 04:49 PM

Didgeridoo
Someday... Wotc will make a minotaur block, and I will laugh deviously screaming "ITOLDYOUSO!!!!" to everyone.

While we other players will stick with Aether Vial ;-)

Poxmaster

03-18-2011, 04:12 PM

I think "desolation" is a very understimate card

http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Visions/Desolation.jpg

Tacosnape

03-18-2011, 04:29 PM

Tammit67

03-18-2011, 04:37 PM

Food chain. Without a doubt. It was broken once, it will be again.

android

03-18-2011, 04:49 PM

Goaswerfraiejen

03-18-2011, 07:45 PM

Pride of the Clouds. It's quite good, but unfortunately not quite good enough with the current cardpool. I have a deck that tries to make good use of it (an updated UW Pride Parade), and it's decent, but not quite as good as it needs to be to compete. What's missing? I dunno--probably a flying equivalent of Wild Nacatl, either for one mana (growing to 3/3) or zero (growing to 2/2).

Also, Gilded Drake is pretty damn fantastic (especially with Jace TMS kicking around--it's basically removal for MUC, except that MUC neither wants nor needs 'The Drake'), but doesn't quite have a home. It works extremely well in my Pride Parade deck, but I don't think I quite manage to maximize its potential.

Barook

03-18-2011, 10:09 PM

My vote goes to Maralen of the Mornsong / Aether Vial or anything that gets her out on an end step.

Sexy with Leonin Arbiter, sexy with Mindlock Orb, sexy with Shadow of Doubt despite the loss of the cantrip effect, really weird with Teferi's Veil, and amazing against so many decks.

Yet still missing the key component to break her.

EDIT: Although with Karakas, this could get stupid. Then you can bounce Maralen after locking them, get your draw, re-Vial Maralen, repeat.
You could also throw in Mindlock Orb. Best thing about it is that Maralen actually tutors for it. Assuming your opponent is behind in life and can't race you, he's basically screwed due to life loss eventually.

Infinitium

03-18-2011, 11:04 PM

Slow Motion. Blue stax was the first deck i ever tried to build in legacy and by george I'm going to find something that enables it one day. Until then this will continue to be enticing recurring spot removal in blue that adds up with Tabernacle and Propaganda.

dahcmai

03-19-2011, 02:34 AM

Oh yeah, almost forgot about these two "Snow" gems.

Winter's Chill - This one I have always liked as it's a MUC type card that can surprise someone easily. It's quite good against Goblins as they like to tap out before attacking.

Glacial Crevasses Sac a land to Fog every turn? There's got to be a use for this thing. Crucible alone is a soft lock. It's in red of all colors though. I will put a use to that card one of these days, that's too easy.

Tacosnape

03-19-2011, 04:02 PM

You could also throw in Mindlock Orb. Best thing about it is that Maralen actually tutors for it. Assuming your opponent is behind in life and can't race you, he's basically screwed due to life loss eventually.

You do realize that the second card I named was Mindlock Orb, right?

Shawon

03-19-2011, 04:25 PM

Blood Funnel. Tried to make something with it but failed. I did hear of someone making with the purpose of using Blood Funnel to churn out a fast Biorhythm.

Offler

03-19-2011, 06:03 PM

Psychic Venom and Shared Fate are my obscure cards with potential... and already put into practice in my blue EDH/HL deck.

I was wondering when I have seen first Zendikon.

Even now on Gatherer are only comments like "Wind zendikon is good. 2/2 with flying in first turn". The best comment was "imagine this on a Fetch land". That was good point. However there are much funnier ways how to misuse an animated land.

Just Say... Tolarian Academy or lotus vale with Pemmins aura on it :D

Infinitium

03-19-2011, 06:11 PM

I remember testing Zendikon as a replacement for Goose in Ugr Tempo Thresh. Recurring Wastelands and allowing for Firespout maindeck was pretty sweet and all, but somehow it was never enough of a standalone threat to justify. Ah well.

blaat

03-19-2011, 07:14 PM

Glacial Crevasses Sac a land to Fog every turn? There's got to be a use for this thing. Crucible alone is a soft lock. It's in red of all colors though. I will put a use to that card one of these days, that's too easy.

I have a funny RG deck with this actually.
It uses Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle as win condition.
It includes Crucible/Loam, Zuran orb and Exploration (and some other "play additional land" effects) + mox diamond.
Just make sure you have the required amount of mountains in play + valakut and keep playing and saccing lands.

Zuran orb, Glacial Crevasses and maze of ith/constant mists should keep agro in check or lock them completely.
Krosan Grip should kill every problem card and a bolt/plow should take care of magus of the moon and others.

Uncoordinated

03-19-2011, 07:59 PM

(nameless one)

03-19-2011, 08:58 PM

As a Quinn player, I would say Scrying Sheets. Its like Library of Alexandria.

Grollub

03-19-2011, 10:26 PM

Replenish: There has to be a stronger home for it than Enchantress. I mean seriously.

Cire

03-20-2011, 12:48 AM

Blood Funnel. Tried to make something with it but failed. I did hear of someone making with the purpose of using Blood Funnel to churn out a fast Biorhythm.

how about blood funnel and donate

turn 1 mana elf --> turn 2 funnel and donate, sac the elf... opponent can't play spells with out saccing creatures...sounds decent...insta win against combo?

Zlatzman

03-20-2011, 10:36 AM

how about blood funnel and donate

turn 1 mana elf --> turn 2 funnel and donate, sac the elf... opponent can't play spells with out saccing creatures...sounds decent...insta win against combo?

"Whenever you play", in other words it doesn't affect opponents. If it were to find a home it would be in some sort of combo deck that wants to chain spells. Not sure what the draw engine would be though.

mrjumbo03

03-20-2011, 11:02 AM

Yup but when you donate it, doesn't the you pertain to the current owner of the card which is your opponent?

warallthetimne

03-20-2011, 11:45 AM

Replenish: There has to be a stronger home for it than Enchantress. I mean seriously.

there is! u/w with opalesence amd attunments. the deck was sick back in the day! blue control replenish off everything u pitch with attunment and opalesence to turn high cmc enchantments into dudes. wordship in there for protection agaimst dudes was a fun deck back in the day

Mr.C

03-20-2011, 03:24 PM

"Whenever you play", in other words it doesn't affect opponents. If it were to find a home it would be in some sort of combo deck that wants to chain spells. Not sure what the draw engine would be though.

You = the controller fyi

Grollub

03-20-2011, 06:41 PM

there is! u/w with opalesence amd attunments. the deck was sick back in the day! blue control replenish off everything u pitch with attunment and opalesence to turn high cmc enchantments into dudes. wordship in there for protection agaimst dudes was a fun deck back in the day
Exactly! It was so stupidly busted.

I think I attempt building a viable replenish deck every new set that arrives, but always fail - it's always lacking the last little bit of oomph. The card is so hideously strong that there has to be a tier 1 deck for it. WotC give me something please.

Some other cards:
Stormbind
Ceta Sanctuary

Litorers

03-20-2011, 08:09 PM

Aritificer's intuition + Salvage titan?
Also flood seems ridiculous

TheArchitect

03-20-2011, 09:12 PM

I think at some point something will be printed that breaks Mitotic Manipulation. Also kind of cool, it can put land directly into play untaped, something blue can't normally do. It's certainly not broken now but I can't imagine it will always stay that way.

ivanpei

03-20-2011, 10:21 PM

Defense of the Heart - I think this could assplode if you used it with Forbidden Orchard & something else to give them critters. It's like a cheaper Tooth and Nail.

Along the same lines, a hugely overlooked card: Victimize - seriously, why doesn't this card see play?

Seriously, some sort of Aggro-rock deck with Noble heirarchs, GSZ and dryad arbors + Fat dudes could abuse the hell out of victimise. I mean postboard, With victimize as your last card in hand you drop it, sac a mana dude and return KOTR + bob? Hell, it's like Natural order without having to play the hydra. But then again, Natural order would have done the same thing too. Frown Town :(

will

03-21-2011, 02:37 AM

Seasinger?

Seems like its power level is comparable to Old Man of the Sea or Vedalken Shackles (maybe, but probably not :P).

ivanpei

03-21-2011, 02:58 AM

Seasinger seems really good in the board. It's similar to Sower, but 1 mana cheaper and only good vs blue decks. I'd rather play a split between sower and llawan though. Seasinger doesn't seem to do anti merfolk or anti KOTR particularly well.

Aggro_zombies

03-21-2011, 03:08 AM

and only good vs blue decks.
I think this is why no one plays this card.

I've been wondering about Pyroclasm and Arc Trail lately. If the meta moves to fast aggro like I think it will, these cards seem really good in a Zoo deck because they represent card advantage while also clearing a path for your guys. Almost all of your creatures will survive a Pyroclasm, whereas a lot of the guys in Affinity or Goblins won't; similarly, Arc Trail can kill two utility creatures, or simply remove two untapped blockers to help force damage through. Pyroclasm definitely seems like the hotter of the two cards, but Arc Trail is always at least two to the face.

ivanpei

03-21-2011, 03:30 AM

Aggro_zombies

03-21-2011, 03:48 AM

I prefer arctrail though. It seems better especially if you are playing plenty of grims, nobles of your own. Pyro maybe better if you are playing quick zoo without nobles. Arc Trail is a good Fire/Ice. Pretty intereting.
Depends on what you want to do.

Zoo is a very winnable matchup for fast aggro, provided the latter decks are built correctly. Your goal is to slow down Zoo's clock with chump blockers while using your remaining creatures to force through lethal: cards like Mogg War Marshal in Goblins are great for this because they give Zoo's larger but non-trampling/evasive army fits by just blocking the crap out of its best attackers. When choosing Arc Trail or Pyroclasm, you have to keep that in mind.

Big Zoo probably benefits more from Pyroclasm because it keeps you alive long enough for trump cards like Elspeth and KotR to matter, and it helps your bigger guys break through ground stalls.

Cat Sligh probably benefits more from Arc Trail because it runs a lot of small guys itself and likes having the option to burn the opponent.

A "middle of the road" Zoo deck that runs a more traditional creature base and a bunch of burn probably benefits slightly more from Pyroclasm because most of your guys survive it and you don't have cards like Elspeth to break through stalemates.

Goaswerfraiejen

03-21-2011, 12:10 PM

Seasinger?

Seems like its power level is comparable to Old Man of the Sea or Vedalken Shackles (maybe, but probably not :P).

Gilded Drake is better! :)

The Wolf

03-21-2011, 03:43 PM

Drop of Honey is stupid good vs Goblins, Merfolk, and Zoo. I proved that in Columbus. It's not bad against New Horizons and such either. I may not have done decent overall, but I sure beat the crap out of those decks when I hit them. Expensive and rare as hell is it's only problem.

Porphyry Nodes would like a word. And yes, this card can be really good against stuff like gobs and zoo. The only issue is you get run over sometimes

Mr. Safety

03-21-2011, 04:39 PM

Since i saw the card, I always figured there has to be a way to make this card into a combo deck:Measure of Wickedness It's absolutely horrible...but come on, there's lots of smart people out there, how come it hasn't been done yet? lol, I jest...

I've been looking at Meekstone lately, a card that could concievably be abused greatly alongside Thopter-Sword and a tap-down effect. Along the same lines, Stoic Angel seems just about a millimeter short (well, a mana too much) of playable.

dahcmai

03-21-2011, 05:47 PM

Seasinger. I've actually been playing that. I use it as a pretty slick answer to those Show and Tell decks. You slap out Emrakul, I get seasinger. My turn?

ivanpei

03-21-2011, 08:39 PM

I had some success with Meekstone in my Countertop Deck at some point time. This was the no dudes version with Planeswalkers for the kill. I play Trinket Mages to search it out. Who needs basilisk collar? It's similar to countertop walkers. Elspeth Chumping goyfs/kotr and then them not untapping? Sweet! Same goes for chumping with trinket etc. Or you can just take the damage and they can treat their dudes like an overcosted burn spell. It's actually very good in the meta right now as most dudes are 3 power or more (including lorded folks).

ScatmanX

03-21-2011, 10:33 PM

It's actually very good in the meta right now as most dudes are 3 power or more (including lorded folks).
Too bad that they have a Merfolk that Untaps merfolks... and Goblins have quite low power before attacking.
I actually used it in my Goblin build years ago, but it fell short... But must be nice to be only hitted by Progenitus once! =]

Telekinesis

03-21-2011, 11:58 PM

Tithe. You get two cards, for one mana, at instant speed! It can even fetch Duals. There has to be a place for this.

Octopusman

03-22-2011, 02:21 AM

Meekstone

I feel this too.

kiblast

03-22-2011, 06:17 AM

Tithe. You get two cards, for one mana, at instant speed! It can even fetch Duals. There has to be a place for this.

Yeah, this card is indeed very strong.

Meekstone is playable, I mean each deck I built running Trinket Mage always had this somewhere between MD and SB.

thickasabrick

03-22-2011, 08:00 AM

Tithe. You get two cards, for one mana, at instant speed! It can even fetch Duals. There has to be a place for this.

Tithe is a bit of a pet card of mine, and I've played it a bunch. The major weakness with Tithe is that it can be Duressed/Thoughtseized/etc. away, leaving you in a major land bind. This can make mulligan decisions very difficult, it's harder to look at a hand and know if it has "enough" land.

When it works out, it can be amazing though.

Tinefol

03-22-2011, 08:52 AM

Knight of the Mists
A body + solution to Knight of the Reliquary/phyrexian/mirran crusader (or whatever other knight) in blue.

Mr. Safety

03-22-2011, 09:26 AM

Anybody else see some potential for Culling Scales and Porphyry Nodes?

From the aggro side of things, is there a reason nobody uses Hidden Gibbons anymore? I also want to see someone completely break Spawnwrithe wide open.

Lejay

03-22-2011, 11:35 AM

I've been having some success with stringhold gambit in the sb of reanimator. I'd see it being good in show and tell too. You can even work on a build with main deck ones and a lot of discard.

Cire

03-22-2011, 12:22 PM

Another fun donate target:

Symbiotic Deployment.

Give it to your opponent, they lose their draw step...

Heresy

03-22-2011, 07:25 PM

Another fun donate target:

Symbiotic Deployment.

Give it to your opponent, they lose their draw step...

Nice find! It's pretty mean but you'd have to run donate...

Infinitium

03-22-2011, 07:51 PM

Colfenor's Plans did intrigue me back in the days. One of the cheapest draw 7 in the game, and the drawback is workable should you pack enough sacrifice effects and/or donate.

Cire

03-22-2011, 10:41 PM

Lol it would be funny to have a modern Donate Deck

4 Donate

X Blood Funnel
X Symbiotic Deployment.
X Colfenor's Plans
X Illusions of Granduer
X Merchant's Scroll
X Personal Tutor
X Mana Elf's/ Dark Ritual's
X Protection/removal

20 Lands

Lol it doesn't look good, but it looks mean and fun...and it can occasionally randomly screw your opponent out of nowhere

samurai_socks

03-22-2011, 10:42 PM

Here are a couple red cards that have always intrigued me.

Shrieking Mogg, Goblin Settler and Control of the court/Goblin Lore.

-Cheers-

dahcmai

03-23-2011, 05:43 AM

samurai_socks

03-23-2011, 10:58 AM

I've tried to make Control of the Court work forever. I just can't get it to be usable. Red wants a draw card sooo badly too. I want a control red deck.

I want to see someone break Arboria. That card just screams for it, but I don't think we've had what we need to do it printed yet. You'd think with Dredge and all the other stuff that doesn't really require you to cast spells something would have stood out by now.

The closest I can get to control of the court working is using Squee and Goblin Welder to offset the downside.

Arboria is pretty good in EDH with Winding Canyons, Terrain Generator, Teferi, Chord of Calling, Flash creatures, etc.

-Cheers-

JustPAT4

03-23-2011, 11:42 AM

Pattern of Rebirth seems strong since the printing of Emrakul. Enchant a dude with with a free sacrifice activation or flashback Cabal Therepy and go to town.

Mr. Safety

03-23-2011, 12:53 PM

Anybody messed around with Lava Blister?

JustPAT4

03-23-2011, 02:33 PM

@Mr. Safety: Lava Blister is cute. I'll give it a whirl.

I've thought about Hidden Gibbons quite a bit actually. My concern is that it's mostly dead against tribal and I just can't justify fitting it into a sideboard currently. Hidden Herd might have more playability right now, though.

I don't know if this is obscure, but The Abyss seems like it can be a house in the right build. It bears a pretty healthy pricetag already...if it ever found the right deck I think it's a prime target for the "Candellabra Effect."

Along the pretty much the same lines, Nether Void seems like an insane lockout piece that sees a miniscule amount of play. If it were white or blue, Stax players worldwide would experience a collective orgasm after reading this card. (Although your opponent's Aether Vial laughs hysterically when you drop it...so maybe Aether Vial is a strong way to abuse this card?)

DukeDemonKn1ght

03-23-2011, 06:54 PM

Anybody else see some potential for Culling Scales and Porphyry Nodes?

Culling Scales has a fricking absurd power level IMO, but honestly, have you ever tried building a deck with that thing? I have, and it imposes some limitations that make it really hard to work with. The list of things you basically shouldn't use it with includes, but isn't limited to: Engineered Explosives, Thopter Foundry, artifact/creature-based mana accelerants (ie Noble Hierarch, Mox Diamond, etc), planeswalkers that make token creatures (Elspeth, Garruk), Pithing Needle, Counterbalance, Chalice of the Void, most of the "utility creatures" in Legacy, etc. It doesn't play nice with most of the other lock-piece artifacts of its type or most of the more commonly used permanent-based control elements in Legacy, and it restricts itself to decks that primarily use big threats. Also, it doesn't really belong in any deck that uses mana accelerants other than lands, instants, or sorceries. And most of the decks that would want its effect (although not all of them) use some mana accel.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure there has to be a home for it somewhere in Legacy. I could see a black aggro/control deck sort of like "The Gate" making good use out of it (except that The Gate uses Bitterblossom, so it's probably a no-go for that deck in particular).

As far as Porphyry Nodes, I'm pretty surprised this doesn't show up in more sideboards actually.

Greenpoe

03-23-2011, 07:14 PM

Porphyry Nodes and Drop of Honey even kill Progenitus and Mother of Runes since they don't target.

Gheizen64

03-23-2011, 07:29 PM

Problem is you have to give out a turn and they can counter those by just playing a creature. Not so hot. Card is too narrow.

Nidd

03-23-2011, 08:25 PM

Culling Scales has a fricking absurd power level IMO, but honestly, have you ever tried building a deck with that thing? I have, and it imposes some limitations that make it really hard to work with. The list of things you basically shouldn't use it with includes, but isn't limited to: Engineered Explosives, Thopter Foundry, artifact/creature-based mana accelerants (ie Noble Hierarch, Mox Diamond, etc), planeswalkers that make token creatures (Elspeth, Garruk), Pithing Needle, Counterbalance, Chalice of the Void, most of the "utility creatures" in Legacy, etc. It doesn't play nice with most of the other lock-piece artifacts of its type or most of the more commonly used permanent-based control elements in Legacy, and it restricts itself to decks that primarily use big threats. Also, it doesn't really belong in any deck that uses mana accelerants other than lands, instants, or sorceries. And most of the decks that would want its effect (although not all of them) use some mana accel.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure there has to be a home for it somewhere in Legacy. I could see a black aggro/control deck sort of like "The Gate" making good use out of it (except that The Gate uses Bitterblossom, so it's probably a no-go for that deck in particular).

As far as Porphyry Nodes, I'm pretty surprised this doesn't show up in more sideboards actually.
I once started a SCD on Culling Scales here, but the card is just too... fair. It's pretty much impossible to break it with the current card pool, as sad as it seems, because I really like the flavour of the card.

Infinitium

03-23-2011, 10:17 PM

Play Sensei's Divining Top, bouncing it with Scales ability targeting it on the stack if need be. Also don't play any 0cc permanents. Voila; indefinite scales at the low cost of 1 mana per turn. Still not good enough however.

Kolhell

03-24-2011, 12:18 AM

I've been dying to find a way to make Nether Void work in -any- deck for a while now. Black Stax, sure, but a) Stax sucks and b) white does a better job at said sucking :/

Mr. Safety

03-28-2011, 04:30 PM

@Mr. Safety: Lava Blister is cute. I'll give it a whirl.

I've thought about Hidden Gibbons quite a bit actually. My concern is that it's mostly dead against tribal and I just can't justify fitting it into a sideboard currently. Hidden Herd might have more playability right now, though.

My first playtest of Hidden Gibbons recently (in zoo) saw a Goblins matchup...probably the one matchup that it will GUARANTEE to suck, lol. Control decks, tempo decks = yep, pretty solid as a 4/4 beatstick for G. Goblins? Most don't even play Lightning Bolt, let alone any other instants. Mr. Safety was all frowny-faced that day...good thing it was just MWS.

Let me know what Lava Blister can do...it seems like it can be a powerful tempo play. Turn 1 mountain, turn 2 Wasteland to kill a land, turn 3 Lava Blister...to potentially deal 6 damage or FURTHER keep them off non-basics. Seems it could be pretty good targeting opposing Wastelands, too. Wasteland isn't so hot with a 6 life price tag, lol. Is there a place for Mono-Red Tempo? Could a ponza-style deck be viable? Crucible/Waste lock, Lava Blister, and Chalice of the Void. Hmmm....

ajax15613

03-28-2011, 06:40 PM

I think active volcano is a real descent card. May only be good to side board tho. and ive been looking at portcullis for a long time. Portcullis would be good with lockdown only though. or a creature with deathtouch.

DukeDemonKn1ght

03-28-2011, 10:16 PM

I kind of <3 this thread... Two more good ones:

In the Eye of Chaos-- Fuck you, Storm, Solidarity, and (to a lesser extent) Burn! That said, it's just way too narrow to justify sideboard space, IMO. Although I could almost see something like Eternal Garden, which has the world's most abysmal Tendrils of Agony matchup in existence, using something like this in order to pretend it had a clock... Hmm... I may actually test that on MWS. ^_^

Divining Witch-- Yeah... I didn't know it existed either. And I have no idea what deck would actually want to use Mr. Demonic Consultation-on-legs. (He's a little slow/ fragile/ unnecessary to most good combo decks I can think of.) But there has to be some potential behind a card gives you a ban-worthy effect multiple times. Right?

(nameless one)

03-28-2011, 10:38 PM

Divining Witch-- Yeah... I didn't know it existed either. And I have no idea what deck would actually want to use Mr. Demonic Consultation-on-legs. (He's a little slow/ fragile/ unnecessary to most good combo decks I can think of.) But there has to be some potential behind a card gives you a ban-worthy effect multiple times. Right?

That card is awesome.

I also want to see Maguses (from Time Spiral block) get broken too. Candelabra and Bazaar to be exact. I was thinking if using Magus of the Bazaar in a U/G Madness deck and Magus of the Candelabra in an Eldrazipost deck (instead of the artifact, possibly with Genesis Wave or Green Sun's Zenith.

Speaking of TSP block, I've always thought Heartwood Storyteller would be broken. Hopefully he can find a home.

Also with Survival of the Fittest gone, can we next abuse Tortured Existance?

DukeDemonKn1ght

03-28-2011, 11:12 PM

That card is awesome.

Speaking of TSP block, I've always thought Heartwood Storyteller would be broken. Hopefully he can find a home.

Also with Survival of the Fittest gone, can we next abuse Tortured Existance?

I played against a guy on MWS who had a mono black Tortured Existence deck with a lot of 187 creatures like Nekrataal and that one with evoke which I'm blanking on the name of. I wouldn't really say it was a top-notch deck, but it was way more powerful than I'm probably making it sound from that description.

Heartwood Storyteller is probably a viable sideboard card for Combo Elves at the very least right now. And any other Glimpse of Nature combo variants, if any of them are good enough to be real decks (genuinely don't know the answer to this.) And it seems like one of those cards that inevitably gets better the more creatures they print with bomb-ass abilities. (Clearly, they haven't been following that development paradigm. :rolleyes:)

And true dat, I think Divining Witch really could be awesome (or at least ridiculously cool) if it finds a home somehow. It seems like he could still be a pretty busted combo enabler, despite being four times as mana intensive and however many turns slower than Demonic Consultation. But every combo deck I can really think of is better without him/ has enough tutors or cantrips that it doesn't need him.

ReAnimator

03-30-2011, 03:02 PM

Justin

03-30-2011, 03:16 PM

(nameless one)

03-30-2011, 03:30 PM

Cloudstone Curio.

It's so close to ridiculous and one of my favorite EDH cards and multiplayer cards. It just requires a little to much work to get anything broken enough for legacy.

I've also always wondered about dovescape too.

Some Combo Elves variant run Cloudstone Curio.

I've seen an Enchantress list with Dovescape.

I've always liked Future Sight. It almost never sees serious play because it costs five, but I did see a top 8 CounterTop Thopter deck use it a while back. It's really nutty with Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm, Jace, etc. If you have Counterbalance, it's a Force of Will counter that you can fetch with Enlightened Tutor.

There was that Helm-Sight Combo (Helm of Awakening + Future Sight). Of course it used a Sensei's Divining Top. It can be fitted in a CounterTop deck and ran a single Brain Freeze as its win con. Though with Emrakuls and the decline of CounterTop, I don't think it could be a top notch strategy.

kiblast

03-30-2011, 03:52 PM

Future Sight is/was actually played in Vintage in some archetypes.

Nonex

03-30-2011, 05:42 PM

IMO Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is vastly underrated because people are too worried about the card your opponent draws. To me, a severely toned down Library of Alexandria is still a Library of Alexandria.

Jodahae

03-30-2011, 06:26 PM

Mystic Remora (http://magiccards.info/query?q=mystic+remora&v=card&s=cname) an effect powerful enough to see play in vintage but the legacy metagame never seems to settle long enough on a combo vs control.

sligh16

03-30-2011, 07:02 PM

Manriki-Gusari and Sun Droplet.

DukeDemonKn1ght

03-31-2011, 01:20 AM

Planar Birth. Any type of Cephalid Breakfast-esque combo to mill however much of your deck into the graveyard, then Banefire for the win next turn? This has to have some sort of potential... Hell, you could even get weird and slap a few Valakut, the Molten Pinnacles in there.

You could even use Recoup to let you play both of the cards from your graveyard. I think this is like the jankiest deck I've ever imagined!! ^_^

Uly Van Hammer

04-07-2011, 11:27 AM

It may or may not of been posted already, but I suggest that anyone who doesnt own a set of dream halls, gets on it. With it's ability and conflux being available, it's only a matter of time before it gets broken. 1 wrong card from wotc and the deck will explode. I got my set a couple weeks ago for $16. Heres to a hopeful investment!

Infinitium

04-07-2011, 02:52 PM

Meh. Dream Halls already have a surefire kill with Conflux in Progenitus + Time Stretch, and gets the none-too-shabby Show & Tell backup plan to go with it. The problem isn't winning with Dream halls in play, it's justifying running it in the first place (losing to Krosan Grip, 5 mana is still a lot etc etc).

elof

05-04-2011, 10:19 AM

Guided Passage is a card I actually think will be played in the future, it's basicly draw 3 for 3.

LostButSeeking

05-04-2011, 12:14 PM

Culling Scales has a fricking absurd power level IMO, but honestly, have you ever tried building a deck with that thing? I have, and it imposes some limitations ... The list of things you basically shouldn't use it with includes, but isn't limited to: . . . planeswalkers that make token creatures (Elspeth, Garruk),

See, whenever I've used culling scales, the problem has been that your opponent stops playing permanents until culling scales kills itself. There's some odd synergy between elspeth and culling scales if you drop elspeth the turn before the culling scales is going to die; you start assassinating your own soldier tokens (preventing them from playing their own creatures for fear of culling scales killing them) until you ramp up to Elspeth's ultimate and culling scales can stay on the table FOREVER, as you can point it at your soldier tokens all day. Eh, it's probably not worth it, although it looks nice in my head.

EDIT: Okay, I'm high on cold medicine. And possibly too dumb to go to college. This is really dumb. Please ignore.

I've thought about Hidden Gibbons quite a bit actually. My concern is that it's mostly dead against tribal

Most tribal decks have SOME instants and sorceries, depending on the tribe and the list. The monkeys is obviously a HOUSE against merfolk. I'm sorry, cursecatcher? Once you play a daze, MY one drop is a 4/4. Get out da way. Stranding Warren Wierdings or Lightning bolts (or swords to plowshares, or krosan grip etc.) in Goblins isn't bad, and Elves commonly runs GSZ, Summoner's Pact and Living Wish (not to mention glimpse) to help themselves combo out. Unless they're casting it on the turn they're winning (and they often need to cast one early to get mana for their combo), you're up a 4/4 for 1.

Mr_Miyagi

05-04-2011, 12:58 PM

Be careful with that cold medicine, Hidden Gibbons only triggers on instants:P

Malchar

05-04-2011, 01:33 PM

I've always liked Future Sight. It almost never sees serious play because it costs five, but I did see a top 8 CounterTop Thopter deck use it a while back. It's really nutty with Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm, Jace, etc. If you have Counterbalance, it's a Force of Will counter that you can fetch with Enlightened Tutor.

Future Sight was used in Standard to create the first storm deck, which was basically a primitive version of spring tide. It was quite fun to play actually.

The problem with Hidden Gibbons is that it's win-more. You can only play it if you already have board control. It does nothing when you're behind, because there's no reason why the opponent would have to cast an instant. The only exception is a combo deck, in which case a 4/4 won't save you. It's like standstill, except that it only triggers on a subset of spells, and you only break even in card advantage instead of getting +2. It might have been usable when a 4/4 for G was actually good. By the way, Goblins doesn't run any instants

perm

05-04-2011, 11:33 PM

Bosium Strip

This is a yawgmoth's will on a stick. I swear that it will be broken one day

bowvamp

05-05-2011, 12:10 AM

Custody Battle is a semi-unusual piece of creature removal in that it nullifies combat-centric creatures and does weird things with bob, pridemage, jitte, etc.
I also wonder why Seedtime doesn't see more play.Beckon Apparition is a decent piece of fu hate that doubles as a weenie.Disrupt is always going to be a fair trade for tempo, but it's a perfect tool for sniping cards.

NyxathidHorror

05-05-2011, 02:59 AM

Head Games is a card that I've been tinkering with; 5 casting cost is just a bit too much in Legacy. It's a blast for table-top magic, but not much else...

Awesome thread!

bruizar

05-05-2011, 08:30 AM

Some Combo Elves variant run Cloudstone Curio.

I've seen an Enchantress list with Dovescape.

There was that Helm-Sight Combo (Helm of Awakening + Future Sight). Of course it used a Sensei's Divining Top. It can be fitted in a CounterTop deck and ran a single Brain Freeze as its win con. Though with Emrakuls and the decline of CounterTop, I don't think it could be a top notch strategy.

Future Sight is played as a one off in UW CounterTop with 4x Enlightened Tutor to tutor for it in response to a Force of Will and to do Sensei's Divining Top Tricks

Oxmo39

05-05-2011, 08:58 AM

@ Artificier's Intuition : this card has indeed a great potential ! I don't think that there already is printed kill condition for this guy...but Artificier is ready for it :-)

TheShaun

05-05-2011, 09:05 AM

there is! u/w with opalesence amd attunments. the deck was sick back in the day! blue control replenish off everything u pitch with attunment and opalesence to turn high cmc enchantments into dudes. wordship in there for protection agaimst dudes was a fun deck back in the day

I think that the card that made this deck so strong though was Frantic Search. You'd have to run crap like Careful Study and I'm not even sure what else, to reliably get enough cards in the yard.

Climax

05-05-2011, 09:16 AM

@ Artificier's Intuition : this card has indeed a great potential ! I don't think that there already is printed kill condition for this guy...but Artificier is ready for it :-)

Take a look at Chimeric Mass for example

Or a combo setup with Sensei's Divining Top, Locket of yesterday, Brain freeze

LostButSeeking

05-05-2011, 10:37 AM

By the way, Goblins doesn't run any instants

Not to argue with the rest of your post, because my last post was uh . . . bad, but depending on the goblins list, it's reasonably common to see swords to plowshares, krosan grip, lightning bolt or pyrokinesis. There's also the . . . um, unusual RU goblins list floating around the goblin thread right now that plays daze and mental misstep.

Richard Cheese

05-05-2011, 11:14 AM

LED? Breakthrough?

Does anyone have that old list or a link to it for reference? This has to at least be worth building in Cockatrice for shits and giggles.

Lego

05-05-2011, 01:40 PM

am I right that the text of Gustha's Scepter changed? On magiccards.info it says: When you lose control of Gustha's Scepter, put all cards exiled with Gustha's Scepter into their owner's graveyard.
Before it said: When it leaves play or you lose control of...

You can only have control of permanents. So when it leaves play, you lose control of it.

Seasinger. I've actually been playing that. I use it as a pretty slick answer to those Show and Tell decks. You slap out Emrakul, I get seasinger. My turn?

Seasinger combos with Spreading Seas

The closest I can get to control of the court working is using Squee and Goblin Welder to offset the downside.

Gearhart once built a Goblin Lore deck with Squee, Goblin Nabob, Gamble and Zombie Infestation. It was pretty decent.

And true dat, I think Divining Witch really could be awesome (or at least ridiculously cool) if it finds a home somehow.

It combos with Shared Fate?

Cloudstone Curio.

It's so close to ridiculous and one of my favorite EDH cards and multiplayer cards. It just requires a little to much work to get anything broken enough for legacy.

This is my favorite EDH card as well (well, possibly second to Seedborn Muse.)

And for the record, my choice for this thread is Thirst for Knowledge.

Barook

05-05-2011, 07:32 PM

Winnow would have been fun when Goyf was way more prelevant. Still kinda cool with Phyrexian Metamorph.

Leyline of Singularity has a kind of interesting effect.

And Cornered Market is a really obscure card.

rufus

05-06-2011, 12:03 PM

The power level of Reap is positively stupid, but it's a bit conditional.

Plague Sliver

05-06-2011, 12:11 PM

Shenanigans with Painter's Servant that doesn't die to Pithing Needle...could be interesting.

(nameless one)

05-06-2011, 12:54 PM

Koby

05-06-2011, 01:08 PM

Remember Food Chain? Whatever happened to that card?

Counterbalance happened. =\

GGoober

05-06-2011, 02:05 PM

GiantGrowth

05-06-2011, 06:03 PM

how about
Mundungu (http://magiccards.info/vi/en/132.html)
could be used in some kind of tempo combined with similar counters

Rizso

05-06-2011, 06:51 PM

Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero. Remember when she used to dominate standard? I guess she needs a better supporting cast.

If you think of it, Masque block has a lot of potential cards. Remember Food Chain? Whatever happened to that card? Unmask doesn't see play anymore. A lot more mentioned above are from Masque block.

She just needs something to great to find, Going with Ramosian Sergeant into Defiant Falcon or Whipcorder then into a Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero but then after there it ends. If there would be released a great 2-4cc rebel card, I could see Lin Sivvi and Co return for more action.

Cards that I think are great but are played to little is Bloodmoon, Magus of the Moon and Cursed Scroll.

Guy I Don't Know

05-06-2011, 10:00 PM

Transmute Artifact. It can search for thopter foundry and silver bullets

dahcmai

05-07-2011, 01:43 AM

I have a fun deck that plays Transmute Artifact, saccing Su-Chi's and Grim Monoliths into Possessed Portals. No one said it wasn't only fun for me.

overpowered

05-07-2011, 10:33 PM

how about
Mundungu (http://magiccards.info/vi/en/132.html)
could be used in some kind of tempo combined with similar counters

Patron Wizard is just straight up better. Every wizard becomes a Mundugu, and Patron is a 2/2.

MDB

05-07-2011, 10:46 PM

There are quite a few that might or might not get there sometime in the future. some more.

Goblin Grenade : Not in gobbo's but in an artifact burn shell, with Kuldotha Rebirth, Galvanic Blast, Shrapnel Blast and .... Goblin Welder?

Children of Korlis : There must be an easy way to abuse this one.

Sapphire Medallion & comrads : With all the colored artifacts of late, and now phyrexian mana, these might be worth looking into.

Diabolic Intent : Seems solid with Bitterblossom. I'll take that over Divining Witch.

Compost : I'll give this one the nod over Reap.

Suffer the Past : Not really obscure, it's a new card. But I really like the idea of maindeck gravehate.

Ok now the really obscure...

Norwood priestess : Not that I know anybody who actually has this card, but I'd sure love to play it.

Soraya the Falconer : OMG if anybody finds out that the Birds have a banding lord.... ;)

(nameless one)

05-07-2011, 11:11 PM

Lin Sivvi and Children of Korlis can create a softlock against decks that uses the combat phase.

bowvamp

05-08-2011, 04:58 PM

On Mudungu vs. Patron Wizard:
Mudungu has a different mana cost, requiring two colors, but less colored mana overall. I think that this makes it superior in ease of use. Mudungu has the 1 life point vs. +1/+1 thing with Patron Wizard. I think that this makes it superior because Patron Wizard will mostly be used to get free dazes and probably won't start swinging until victory is obvious. This makes Mudungu superior because it pings them WHILE you're waiting. Patron Wizard does have the advantage of being usable the turn he comes into play though...

Children of Korlis combos w/ Hatred, Doomsday, Ad Nauseum, and Necrologia.

Which brings me to some other cards that I really like:

Necrologia I see this as easy to be abused in a wish-board setting. Cunning Wish -> Necrologia anyone?

Devastating Summons This seems like a really nice kill-con. IDK...

Offler

05-08-2011, 05:57 PM

Braids, Conjurer adept

I know this guy is pretty broken with all big nasty dragons, eldrazi, giants and so on... But I was recently looking for usage for him in monoblue wizard tribal and really - not sure about him... Also I have been told that when this guy is played first who usually takes the advantage of his ability is opponent. Any ideas?

Grimoire thief
This guy is annoying, and as a side effect if you can tap and untap him infinitely it will remove all libraries. Nice. veeery nice.

Darkness
Yes, Black Fog. Black Holy Day. Althougt not a new card, reprinted card this has always fascinated me. I think that black is only "complete" color. with all effects. direct damage, lifelink, some prevention...

Digital Devil

05-08-2011, 07:25 PM

No love for Cataclysm and Ankh of Mishra?

I think that black is only "complete" color. with all effects. direct damage, lifelink, some prevention
Who cares about game-breaking enchantments or artifact destruction? Damage prevention is soooooo strong. Also look at that Knight of the Reliquary - why would I want to play creatures like that when I could block 'em with my Nyp Gwillion and then BOOOM!!! cast Drain Life for over nine thousand next turn?

P.S. - No offense taken - I'm probably the worst player among the living, please don't take me seriously.

Guy I Don't Know

05-08-2011, 07:43 PM

How about Force Field, it costs a fortune($$), and when they attack with emrakul you say, Ill take one sir, and enter scoop phase :P

On the same note how about moments peace? Fog with flashback

oRen

05-08-2011, 08:17 PM

How about Force Field, it costs a fortune($$), and when they attack with emrakul you say, Ill take one sir, and enter scoop phase :P
you still have to sac 6 permanents :eyebrow:

Mystic Remora (http://magiccards.info/query?q=mystic+remora&v=card&s=cname) an effect powerful enough to see play in vintage but the legacy metagame never seems to settle long enough on a combo vs control.
i guess it is dependent on that fast mana you got in vintage to pay for the costs and still be able to cast stuff or counter spells.
anyway this could be pretty nice though i guess people already tried to properly use it.

Guy I Don't Know

05-08-2011, 08:27 PM

you still have to sac 6 permanents
That is why its bad and why you

enter scoop phase :P

How about Jewled Amulet. Helps with metalcraft and can be good next to mox opal if you trying to get to 4 or 5 mana.

Mr.C

05-08-2011, 11:02 PM

One of the most undervalued Legends rares out there is Land Equilibrium. There *has* to be a way to fit it in Stax, or anything that can make mana out of nonland permanents.

perm

05-08-2011, 11:31 PM

One of the most undervalued Legends rares out there is Land Equilibrium. There *has* to be a way to fit it in Stax, or anything that can make mana out of nonland permanents.

lol what terrible artwork

Barook

05-09-2011, 05:49 AM

Mystic Remora looks kinda good with Hex Parasite.

perm

05-09-2011, 05:57 AM

Bequeathal is one enchant creature that actually makes sense. Looks dece with things like pridemage.

oRen

05-09-2011, 08:45 AM

Mystic Remora looks kinda good with Hex Parasite.

actually I like this idea a lot. adding confis, forces, cb+top, MM and the other usual stuff could make a really nice deck out of this idea.

Malchar

05-09-2011, 02:37 PM

Bequeathal is one enchant creature that actually makes sense. Looks dece with things like pridemage.

There's also my favorite, Casting of Bones.
I also like Mindslicer a lot. Theoretically, it works great with stuff like pox and bloodghast.

Michael Keller

05-10-2011, 10:04 AM

actually I like this idea a lot. adding confis, forces, cb+top, MM and the other usual stuff could make a really nice deck out of this idea.

Don't forget that Parasite can knock off Planeswalkers without having to sacrifice itself, unlike Vampire Hexmage.

whienot

05-10-2011, 10:26 AM

Hex Parasite also interacts favorably with Death's Shadow. :laugh:

bowvamp

05-10-2011, 11:09 AM

Am I being trolled?
Hex Parasite removes counters. Death's Shadow gets -x/-x.

Infinitium

05-10-2011, 11:22 AM

You're not. Shadow has got an even better interaction with the Firebreathing Phyrexian.. shame that it's nowhere near playable anyhow. Mystic Remora continues to intrigue me however.

Sims

05-10-2011, 11:22 AM

Am I being trolled?
Hex Parasite removes counters. Death's Shadow gets -x/-x.

Activate the ability on Hex parasite multiple times removing 0, but pay 2 life instead of B.... lower your life total at will for death's Shadow.

Finn

05-10-2011, 03:20 PM

Hex Parasite and unstable mutation.

Mr. Safety

05-10-2011, 04:17 PM

Is anyone else eyeballing Noxious Revival?

I want to use that with a BUg setup with Loam, cycle lands, and Mental Missteps.

lorddotm

05-10-2011, 04:17 PM

Hex Parasite and unstable mutation.

Finn. Breaking formats wide open.

Mirrislegend

05-10-2011, 04:28 PM

She just needs something to great to find, Going with Ramosian Sergeant into Defiant Falcon or Whipcorder then into a Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero but then after there it ends. If there would be released a great 2-4cc rebel card, I could see Lin Sivvi and Co return for more action.
Chameleon Colossus?

As far as currently underrated: Phyrexian Revoker

kiblast

05-10-2011, 04:32 PM

Actually Death's Shadow has became almost playable with Phyrexian mana. Throw in Phyrexian Metamorph as Death's Shadow 5-8, Gitaxian Probe for free draw, Misstep for pro-Stp, and all 3 pump Shadow. You can even play Fow now, as you have enough blue count (I'd play Daze too, as Shadow decks tend to win or lose within the first 2 turns) in a deck made of 56 cards thanks to Street Wraith.The rest is black instant mana sources and Infernal Contract+ Cruel Bargains. Sounds fun.

Guy I Don't Know

05-10-2011, 04:38 PM

Mana Vortex is an interesting lock piece

Offler

05-10-2011, 04:47 PM

Noxious Revival
Are they kidding me? Semi-colorless reanimation. Playable for type 2, surely will be abused as an autoinclude card by some Highlander players I know.

Unstable mutation
What about putting it only small tiny creature such as Flying men and then do bounce with something like Mark of eviction?

Darkenslight

05-10-2011, 05:45 PM

Mirari's Wake
Gauntlet of Power
Gauntlet of Might

MAybe some kind of deranged Big Mana build that makes lots of tokens (like Beacon of Creation or Liege of the Hollows.

Rizso

05-10-2011, 09:15 PM

A card I feel is way underplayed is Shadowmage Infiltrator. Love that card.

lorddotm

05-10-2011, 09:57 PM

Mirari's Wake
Gauntlet of Power
Gauntlet of Might

MAybe some kind of deranged Big Mana build that makes lots of tokens (like Beacon of Creation or Liege of the Hollows.

The problem is, you have to run basics with the last two. Getting to 4 mana is not exactly the easier thing to do in Legacy when you are playing Mono-Red.

And Wake just loses hard to Grip, plus it costs 5, good luck resolving that.

Mr. Safety

05-11-2011, 12:50 PM

Noxious Revival
Are they kidding me? Semi-colorless reanimation. Playable for type 2, surely will be abused as an autoinclude card by some Highlander players I know.

It looks good to me...especially when you consider Life from the Loam making a larger portion of your deck available to you. Think Intuition and Life from the Loam.

It's not that it's 'just a reanimation spell'...it's an instant reanimation spell that can be cast for free, or cheap if need be. You don't have to play it, but I will.

A card I feel is way underplayed is Shadowmage Infiltrator. Love that card.

Agreed...I think it's the 3 mana cost. :frown:

Giles

05-11-2011, 01:57 PM

Reveillark needs to see some sort of play.

Rizso

05-11-2011, 04:59 PM

It looks good to me...especially when you consider Life from the Loam making a larger portion of your deck available to you. Think Intuition and Life from the Loam.

It's not that it's 'just a reanimation spell'...it's an instant reanimation spell that can be cast for free, or cheap if need be. You don't have to play it, but I will.

Agreed...I think it's the 3 mana cost. :frown:

Well unless you face combo decks that wins really early 1-3 turns 3 mana isnt real problem when it can be pitched to Force of Will as well. Also a creature that can get swords to hit for effect like feast and famine.

fallenphoenix

05-11-2011, 05:14 PM

If Shadowmage gets mentioned, I feel like Ohran Viper should be here, too.

But both are probably still worse than Cold-Eyed Selkie.

Barook

05-11-2011, 07:44 PM

For what it's worth, Phyrexian Etchings also kinda works with Hex Parasite, although it's not as strong as Mystic Remora.

TsumiBand

05-12-2011, 01:10 AM

Chameleon Colossus?

Heh, it's kind of a bummer that Chameleon Colossus is "the good Rebel", although now that I think about it, that deck did classically play Gaea's Cradle didn't it... hmmm.

The Phantom creatures from Odyssey Block are interesting. Phantom Centaur + Sword of (Protection from their relevant removal) = a 4/3 that can't be targeted by their removal spells and can't die to combat damage. Plus whatever the Sword effect is. I guess assembling that Voltron costs a billion mana, but you know you kinda want to.

Also, Lightning Rift. I guess there was a R/W 'Rifter' deck in Legacy for a minute, wonder what happened to that guy. Probably combo decks. Oh well, I still miss Lightning Rift.

It's kind of shitty but To Arms! is a Reset + cantrip for Elves :P

perm

05-12-2011, 02:01 AM

For what it's worth, Phyrexian Etchings also kinda works with Hex Parasite, although it's not as strong as Mystic Remora.

Phyrexian Etchings/Remora also work with Flickerwisp

ivanpei

05-12-2011, 03:01 AM

The problem is, you have to run basics with the last two. Getting to 4 mana is not exactly the easier thing to do in Legacy when you are playing Mono-Red.

And Wake just loses hard to Grip, plus it costs 5, good luck resolving that.

Anyone had any success with Scapeshift? I was very enthusiastic about that card when it first came out. They're all these exotic ways of ramping mana/winning while Scapeshift is a 1 card combo. Get a bunch of Cloud posts + Eye of Ugin= GG. A deck that ramps mana quickly with GSZ (Dryad Arbor), Sakura Tribe Elders, Explore, Veteran Explorer (Yes, another underplayed card), Primevil Titan into a Scapeshift into the nuts seems plausible. Splashing Red gives Burning Wish and Blue is good too for intuition/loam. Mono green Ramp with Scapeshift Seems fun:

4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Explore
4 Veteran Explorer
4 GSZ (Ramps into Dryad Arbor AND Primevil for the finish)

4 Primeval Titan
4 Scapeshift
1 Emrakul
1 Kozilek/Ulamog

4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
3 Top

2 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
2 Vesuva
4 Bayou
4 Verdant
4 Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Dryad Arbor

Seems fun at least. Legacy Ramp FTW!

perm

05-12-2011, 03:19 AM

there were somewhat viable scapeshift decks with valakut combo.

Heresy

07-24-2011, 01:54 AM

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=2753&type=card

rupus

07-24-2011, 03:34 AM

Noxious revival isn't good. I know some people tried to use it in solidarity. The problem is its card disadvantage. Idk why you are calling it a reanimation spell. It's clearly not.

Gheizen64

07-24-2011, 07:09 AM

Cryoclasm is a lava spike + stone rain for the same mana cost of stone rain in this format (who doesn't play neither plains or island?). Not strong, but cute as hell.

Julian23

07-24-2011, 07:20 AM

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=2753&type=card

One day I went through ALL the lands there are in Magic, looking for some possible cards to break in Lands.dec and this is the card that looked most interesting to me. Still, not good enough I believe. But has potential.

overpowered

07-24-2011, 09:19 AM

Mana Vortex is an interesting lock piece

+1. I think Mana Vortex with Crucible is insanely strong. I wanted to run blue stax just for that.

rupus

07-24-2011, 09:21 AM

One day I went through ALL the lands there are in Magic, looking for some possible cards to break in Lands.dec and this is the card that looked most interesting to me. Still, not good enough I believe. But has potential.

Yup. Not as good as tabernacle or maze of ith (or even glacial chasm I guess) at creature control. Cryoclasm is super cute ^_^

How about pyromancer ascension? It's basically a worse storm I think but I like that card. Also time warp effects. Ali Aintrazi (sp?) had a sweet turboland list on SCG that ran time warps and also infinite walk the aeons (via exploration/asuza and crucible). He even said it's probably too cute (the additional warps, walk the aeons is actually a good finisher there) but I do love taking extra turns. Some obscure cards with sideboard potential are compost and spiritual focus (got those from old vintage "The Deck" decklists on SCG). What about liquimetal coating? I saw some discussion of it in vintage shop decks over at themanadrain but a liquimetal/mycosynth lattice destruction deck might be cool (very cute though). Futuresight is a pretty busted card but not as busted as Jace and also not really obscure :( Stasis has always been one of my favorite cards and I would love to see a turbo stasis deck happen (I've tried very hard with no success to make it work). Tortured existence is a cool card (see The Nightmare Effect thread at MTGS). The bomberman combo (auriok salvagers + LED) seems really solid, I saw a suggestion somewhere (I think SCG) to have it as a backup in painter decks. Maralen of the Mornsong seems like she should be somewhere doing something. Dark Tutelage is a very powerful draw effect but worse than bob in everyway except being more immune to removal (maindeck removal at least). The last one I have is Riddlesmith. That dude seems sexy as hell and I remember lots of people wanting to break him in Vintage. Vintage is definitely a better fit but tons of looting could be cool in a welder deck or maybe even as a one of in UR imperial painter (or that liquimetal/mycosynth deck :D).

EDIT: Mana vortex is pretty hot. Speaking of interesting lock pieces Nether Void is so good. Or at least it used to be. Also the abyss.

Julian23

07-24-2011, 09:29 AM

Another thought:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/hl/26.jpg

with this:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/sok/158.jpg

Justin

07-24-2011, 09:37 AM

That's pretty funny. I don't imagine that this would be any good in serious constructed, but I can imagine the look of puzzlement on an opponent's face when you drop a turn one Pithing Needle naming Aether Storm. 95% of players probably don't know what it is. He'll probably think you are a noob and meant to say Aether Vial (which by the way gets around this little soft lock).

rupus

07-24-2011, 09:41 AM

That would be pretty funny. Also suppression field is cute with it too. All these cards could get together and be so cute that your opponent concedes because he doesn't want to hurt their feelings.

Shabbaman

07-28-2011, 07:23 AM

Unstable mutation
What about putting it only small tiny creature such as Flying men and then do bounce with something like Mark of eviction?

Unstable mutation on Flying men is a classic. You could try Melira, Sylvok Outcast :)

android

07-28-2011, 09:54 AM

Unstable mutation on Flying men is a classic. You could try Melira, Sylvok Outcast :)

Kor Spiritdancer? Seems strong. Could be attacking T2 with Rancor, Unstable Mutation and Flickering Ward. 11/11 Protected Trampler with WW-draw a card. Without a response you pretty much win.

Michael Keller

07-28-2011, 10:06 AM

Carnival of Souls.

.dk

07-28-2011, 03:21 PM

Carnival of Souls.

goes infinite with thopter/sword.

whienot

07-28-2011, 05:36 PM

goes infinite with thopter/sword.

So does Ashnod's Altar. It's colorless and lets you gain infinite life, but it's still bad.

lordofthepit

07-28-2011, 07:56 PM

Another thought:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/hl/26.jpg

with this:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/sok/158.jpg

That's funny because you're suggesting a Homelands card.

BKclassic

07-28-2011, 10:49 PM

In the Eye of Chaos showed up as 4 of in the sideboard a Hive Mind deck that went 3-1 on a MTGO daily. That card seems playable and is only 29.99 at StarCityGames, which seems pretty good considering its a Legends rare.

Michael Keller

07-29-2011, 02:30 PM

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/on/160.jpg

Used to love this card.

rufus

07-29-2011, 02:55 PM

Mystic Remora looks kinda good with Hex Parasite.

Maybe along with Sundial of the Infinite, and some other stuff like Glacial Chasm it can build a draw-go deck.

nedleeds

07-29-2011, 05:47 PM

Carnival of Souls.

Often rides shotgun with Suicide Kobold Storm (tm).

All we need are some good minotaurs ... and this reserved list rare shoots through the roof.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/hl/130.jpg

NetherDoo ... I can see it now

bruizar

07-29-2011, 05:51 PM

Can be fetched by Trinket Mage. We need an emrakul-sized minotaur.

(nameless one)

07-29-2011, 05:59 PM

I have faced against a Changeling deck that ran Didgeridoo and cheated them into play. He'd tutor for them via Goblin Matron as well.

nedleeds

07-29-2011, 06:40 PM

I have faced against a Changeling deck that ran Didgeridoo and cheated them into play. He'd tutor for them via Goblin Matron as well.

Tell me he at least ran a miser's Tahngarth?

Koby

07-29-2011, 06:47 PM

Tell me he at least ran a miser's Tahngarth?

Pffsh, Chameleon Colossus ftw.

honz

08-01-2011, 03:23 PM

It really bothers me that Recurring Nightmare isn't a mandatory 4 of in something. There are so many cards with amazing CIP / into grave abilities, that there really is no excuse for that card not to see play (shriekmaw, eternal witness, kitchen finks, reveillark, veteran explorer). Diabolic intent, fauna shaman, green sun's zenith, birthing pod as enablers. I think if you found the right toolbox of creatures, this could be a very solid post-survival of the fittest deck.

I would also second Maralen of the Mornsong. Karakas, aven mindcensor, aether vial. It seems really good in my head.

Heresy

08-01-2011, 10:14 PM

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3052&type=card

Michael Keller

08-04-2011, 09:46 AM

Maybe along with Sundial of the Infinite, and some other stuff like Glacial Chasm it can build a draw-go deck.

Seems like it would work decent in some sort of Hexmage-Depths deck. Remora, Hex Parasite, etc.

Julian23

08-05-2011, 05:21 PM

In the Eye of Chaos has been discussed as a possible 1 of in Enchantress' sideboard years ago. I think it falls into the same category as Chains of Mephistopheles, Nether Void or The Abyss: get it if you want but don't expect it to rise unless something crazy happens.

TheInfamousBearAssassin

08-05-2011, 05:50 PM

I agree on Oversold Cemetery + Recurring Nightmare, especially in this attrition heavy metagame, these cards really ought to see more play.

Namida

08-05-2011, 06:18 PM

I agree on Oversold Cemetery + Recurring Nightmare, especially in this attrition heavy metagame, these cards really ought to see more play.

What kind of deck would you put them in?

Tacosnape

08-05-2011, 06:25 PM

Didgeridoo also works with Artificial Evolution, if you want to be dumb and make it drop out Eldrazi or Angels instead of Minotaurs.

evanmartyr

08-05-2011, 07:38 PM

Didgeridoo also works with Artificial Evolution, if you want to be dumb and make it drop out Eldrazi or Angels instead of Minotaurs.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

My inner skeptic is wondering what makes this better than PainterStone, but my inner child doesn't give a shit, because Didgeridoo is fucking awesome.

Malchar

08-05-2011, 08:39 PM

Well, Painter's Servant is vulnerable to basically every form of removal. Didgeridoo and Artificial Evolution are a little harder to remove, but then again it's a 3 card combo until they print an overpowered minotaur.

TheInfamousBearAssassin

08-05-2011, 09:09 PM

What kind of deck would you put them in?

Some kind of attrition deck with Hymn to Tourach, probably, and creatures.

Alternately, you could throw it in Goblins, that would probably be fine and make it even more ridiculous vs all these fair decks.

Finn

08-05-2011, 10:49 PM

I dont think Didgerdoo works with Artificial Evolution. It only targets spells or permanents. A card in your hand is neither.

AngryTroll

08-05-2011, 10:56 PM

I dont think Didgerdoo works with Artificial Evolution. It only targets spells or permanents. A card in your hand is neither.

You'd use Artificial Evolution to change Didgeridoo to say "You may put an Eldrazi permanent card from your hand onto the battlefield.", not change your in-hand Eldrazi into a Minotaur.

wolfstorm

08-06-2011, 03:57 AM

Yosei, The Morning Star + Recurring Nightmare is pretty damn sick.

Dark Ritual

08-06-2011, 08:30 PM

I seriously LOL'ed hard when Tacosnape mentioned artificial evolution + didgeridoo to combo eldrazi into play. On the flip side, you could name golem on didgeridoo to cheat blightsteel into play or sundering titan or any golem's for that matter then again eldrazi are pretty sick when you swing with them. Only downside to eldrazi is that they're legendary so karakas gets them.

I'm actually tempted to make a deck with that janky combo now despite it taking 3 cards to pull off it would be funny to play didgeridoo, have opponent go "Wtf is this card...are you playing tribal minotaurs?" Then go artificial evolution into emrakul on them just would be priceless.

Hanni

08-06-2011, 09:41 PM

Sickus, Minotaur Overlordus
RRRRRBBBBBGGGGGUUUUUWWWWW
Legendary Minotaur
If Sickus, Minotaur Overlordus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, Exile it.
Protection from Everything, Indestructible.
20/20

(nameless one)

08-06-2011, 10:05 PM

Nonex

08-07-2011, 07:02 AM

Hanni

08-07-2011, 10:53 AM

Don't forget Show and Tell!

GGoober

08-07-2011, 01:55 PM

Lol awesome hanni, I got a good laugh (at the Show and Tell one :P)

@Taco: The deck would be good except that it loses to Mental Misstep and Chalice@1 :( I did not realize didgeridoo was 1cmc, you can totally play Trinketcontrol and tutor it up for a win-condition when you draw your Artifical Evolution.

dahcmai

08-07-2011, 03:48 PM

You guys can be proud now. I am going to live the dream. I added one Artificial evolution to my EDH deck. It already had a didgeridoo and a couple Eldrazis so why not. if I actually get that, I deserve that win.

Guy I Don't Know

08-07-2011, 09:17 PM

How about Word of command, making hive mind to play pact before they have hive mind in play :)

Justin

08-08-2011, 10:12 AM

LOL! You could get a turn one win against them if you can accelerate it out with a dark rit or mox. However, it's too inconsistant and they can play Brainstorm to hide their pacts after they have a blue mana. Angel's Grace or Sundial are still much better, but I would love to see the look on a Hive Mind players face after losing to Word of Command before they even get their first turn.

Dark Ritual

08-08-2011, 02:47 PM

That's why you misstep brainstorm ;) if I owned word of command and expected lots of hive mind I would play that card lol the techiest. The card is so janky but it's sweet against hive mind for obvious reasons. Get it on the play with dark rit or moxen and you get bonus points when you smash them with that word of command.

Koby

08-08-2011, 03:37 PM

Super bonus points for casting this in response to Intuition.
:evil grin:

Gheizen64

08-08-2011, 03:41 PM

Super bonus points for casting this in response to Intuition.
:evil grin:

Wow it's even an instant. SO GOOD.

(nameless one)

08-08-2011, 04:11 PM

Speaking of obscure cards with latent potential, what about Metalworker? So much hope and hype with the card when it got unbanned yet so weak and inconsistent.

Koby

08-08-2011, 04:22 PM

I think Metalworker is incredibly powerful. However, the deck that did well with him, is inconsistent. It usually can't even beat 1x Swords to Plowshares. While it's powerful in Vintage due to the lack of creature removal, in Legacy, this is a different animal.

Mr. Safety

08-08-2011, 04:24 PM

Has anyone toyed around with Baloth Cage Trap? It seems pretty good considering a metagame with a bunch of Affinity...and considering it's a GREEN 2-mana response to Batterskull. The artifact doesn't have to be played...just enter the battlefield under an opponent's control. Extra cookies if you have mana to cast both an artifact hate AND a Cage Trap the same turn...

I'm also eyeballing Ravenous Trap for grave hate again. It may not always be the best approach, but I like my grave hate to be:

1) Instant speed
2) FREE

I love Surgical Extraction for that reason, I've used Faerie Macabre with scattered success, and Ravenous Trap seems like a decent option as well. Tormod's Crypt is the classic free grave hate...but can't be dug out and played pronto via Brainstorm.

Gheizen64

08-08-2011, 04:48 PM

Baloth Cage Trap is worse than tarmogoyf even when it can be played for the trap cost, it just sucks. And it's not like there aren't better option for artifact hate (Smash to smithereen? Krosan Grip? Nature's Grasp? The shatter with G flashback? Shattering Spree? Viridian Shaman? etc...)

thecrav

08-08-2011, 10:52 PM

For the cost of the Baloth trap, you could just play 'goyf in your main phase. Also, I don't see a while lot of Affinity running around. While there's an artifact or two (Vial, Top, Sword of *and*), I really don't think that's enough to make trap good enough.

Mr. Safety

08-09-2011, 02:51 PM

I figured...it just seems cool to be able to play a 4/4 at instant speed. Sure there are better hates out there, but they are limited in what they can do. A 4/4 can smash face. I'm thinking more kitchen table here, but I think it's decent.

Any thoughts on Ravenous Trap?

android

08-09-2011, 04:10 PM

Is this card even good? I can't tell.

Necrologia

Mr. Safety

08-09-2011, 04:26 PM

Well, it's a one-shot Necropotence for 5. It SEEMS good, but falls a little too uncomfortable on the high end of playable converted costs (5) for legacy. The real question is: is this better than Ad Nauseum, it's closest equivalent? I would say no...but it could be a way for ANT to play 8 Ad Nauseums (but why would you want to do that?)

Do you have a use in mind for this android, or are you just keeping that hush-hush and holding out on us? :eyebrow:

android

08-09-2011, 05:05 PM

Nope, was just sorting some old cards and noticed someone out there bought up all copies at SCG.

I was making the same comparison in my head with AN but there are some obvious differences:

Anything over 7, your ditching (right?)
If you intend to win with it, you only care about instants
Any main phase flexibility is lost so your storm win needs to be an instant and win with a storm count of less than 20.

At least that was my deduction.

Koby

08-09-2011, 05:15 PM

Gocho

08-09-2011, 05:17 PM

Is this card even good? I can't tell.

Necrologia

We tried a deck around Necrologia and Insidious Dreams in the stormboards. Them are like Ad Nauseam and Doomsday at Instant speed and can play with Fow and 8 spirit guides maindeck.
It doesn't work. We can't get enough Instant Initial Mana Sources to chain rituals. Black mainly. And Quicken + Tendrils is an ugly win condition.
It could be ok if Wizards print Zombie Spirit Guide, but I doubt that they think about it.

Nonex

08-09-2011, 05:17 PM

I remember having toyed with Necrologia at some point. Its home should be a Solidarity shell with 4 Frantic Search and probably a white splash for Chant/Silence. Right now that's only viable in Vintage, and I don't think it's even casual. However, I firmly think that if Necrologia can be exploited, it has to be in a deck like that.

Mr. Safety

08-10-2011, 07:43 AM

I've been thinking about this...and what if it was just a really good draw spell, and not a tutor like we're assuming it would be? Draw 7 cards for 7 life and 5 mana? In standard, you get a whopping 3 card for 5 mana (that jace-flavored draw spell that hit in M11...) It's possible that it could be a way to start fresh with 7 new cards if your combo deck just got hated out badlyl. I'm thinking recovery, not initial combo attempt. *shrug* still sounds bad, lol...

scrubbysniff

08-10-2011, 11:40 PM

How bout
http://i.imgur.com/pYOq5.jpg

Perma voltaic key. I want to build some weird casual deck with mana elves, all decent mana artifacts(grim monolith, dynamo, basalth monolith) to get some stupid thing like phyrexian colossus into play, or colossus of sardia for that old school flavor(obviously emakrul/blightsteel are better, but it's fun to use my homeboy from sardia). Even better-phyrexian processor, pay 10 life, bam a 10/10. During their upkeep/endstep BAM another 10/10. This will be really fun in casual. What is the tinkerish card that lets you tutor for an artifact?

kiblast

08-11-2011, 03:55 AM

Scrubby, why don't you use an even bigger image so we can see the hidden potential of this card even better.

scrubbysniff

08-11-2011, 04:50 AM

Whoa hey sorry to ruin your day! I'll fix that straight away.

Mr. Safety

08-11-2011, 12:47 PM

Pneumatiker

08-11-2011, 12:59 PM

Or Transmute Artifact?

rufus

08-11-2011, 05:47 PM

We tried a deck around Necrologia and Insidious Dreams in the stormboards. Them are like Ad Nauseam and Doomsday at Instant speed and can play with Fow and 8 spirit guides maindeck.
It doesn't work. We can't get enough Instant Initial Mana Sources to chain rituals. Black mainly. And Quicken + Tendrils is an ugly win condition.

I tried to pencil something out with 4x Soul Spike + 4x Fireblast but it's also not there.

Fossil4182

08-13-2011, 07:31 PM

Virtue's Ruin (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Virtue%27s+Ruin&v=card&s=cname)
2B
Sorcery
Text: Destroy all white creatures

I've been slowing picking these up to use as a sideboard card in UB Tendrils. I've been testing in the board as there are several decks in my metagame that run Gaddock Teeg (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Gaddock&v=card&s=cname) and Ethersworn Canonist (http://magiccards.info/ala/en/10.html). The Canonists are especially annoying because they are used in BW and UW decks which both have Mother of Runes (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mother%20of%20Runes). This has made it difficult to use bounce or spot removal as an answer. I stumbled across this and its been testing well as an answer to these cards.

Dark Ritual

08-14-2011, 02:27 AM

There was a deck at one time called Necro 2.0 on the stormboards but once mystical tutor got axed it really went down the tubes. The people on the stormboards concluded that the deck was literally a set of manamorphose's away from being playable, since the goal of the deck was usually to cast necrologia, draw 18 cards off of it (you could still cast FoW afterwards then and before as well), remove some spirit guide's because it ran the full 8, get some black mana to chain some dark and cabal ritual's together to get to 4 black mana. Use manamorphose to get UU in the pool. Mystical tutor for tendrils. Put it on top. Cast quicken. Cast tendrils after drawing it off the top. But yeah, that was with mystical tutor. Now they have to raw draw the tendrils off the top without mystical tutor's help or just run more copies, lowering consistency in your draws. The deck probably isn't playable but here was the list from back when mystical tutor was legal:

// Lands
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
4 [8E] City of Brass

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Street Wraith
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [SHM] Manamorphose
2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
2 [GP] Quicken
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [EX] Necrologia
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
4 [FUT] Pact of Negation
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor

Obviously drawing 17ish cards is quite powerful but that decklist is obsolete due to the banning of mystical. And ad nauseam does essentially the same thing; it usually draws upwards of 20 cards for 5 mana at any time, not just the end step obviously.

I've been aware of virtue's ruin for some time. I really like the card; it's quite underrated IMO and is very useful like you said in storm combo for fighting hatebears. The only card it doesn't hit is phyrexian revoker I guess.

scrubbysniff

08-15-2011, 12:54 AM

Is it one of these?

Shape Anew
Fabricate
Reshape

Fabricate is the one I was thinking of. Thanks bro bro buddy man.

TheInfamousBearAssassin

08-15-2011, 03:16 AM

TheInfamousBearAssassin

08-15-2011, 03:18 AM

On that note why don't people play Massacre more.

Jak

08-15-2011, 03:23 AM

On that note why don't people play Massacre more.

Gaddock Teeg...

Dark Ritual

08-15-2011, 08:56 PM

If gaddock teeg didn't exist massacre would be sweet. Massacre also kicks you in the balls when you flip it to ad nauseam although I guess it's just one less damage with virtue's ruin. But yeah. Gaddock teeg screwed massacre over royally; it's why I play slaughter pact in doomsday instead.

kicks_422

08-15-2011, 11:49 PM

There was a deck at one time called Necro 2.0 on the stormboards...

Hi, I'm the deck creator. I think that deck's buried here in The Source somewhere, too.

Manamorphose 5-8 would be great, and a Zombie and/or Merfolk Spirit Guide even better, as the blue mana is the hardest to create at instant speed. However, since Mystical Tutor was banned, getting Necrologia into your hand became very difficult. In my latest versions before I scrapped the project, I had Gamble in there and upped the Quicken count to 4 so that I could still use that during the combo chain.

Even post-Mystical, when it worked, it went "Turn 1, play land. End Step Necro for 17. You FoW? I FoW back. Play spells. Quicken, Tendrils. Stifle? I PoN it, and show another PoN in hand just for good measure."

Then the next game it lost to 20 turns of an attacking Spellstutter Sprite.

It's probably 2-3 cards off from being remotely competitive at this point. I tried to revive it when Leyline of Anticipation rolled around, but then it became an ugly lovechild of TES and Solidarity.