Tarmo vs FOW

[comandantenorton83]

Hi to everybody.

I usually read this forum, but never write, because I've been out of the game for about 10 years. I know about the cards people usually play nowadays because of reading ths forum.

Recently I've been thinking about coming back to the game, and a friend of mine just offered a trade: I give him my 3 old and beloved Force of will and he gives me 3 tarmogoyfs.

Do you guys think that it is a fair trade? I remember Force of will was one of the best cards back in the 2000, and then Tarmogoyf did'nt exist yet. I also know tarmogoyf is a powerhouse in the current Legacy, but I'm not sure if it is at the same level as FOW. I've searched different online stores to check prices, and both cards seem to cost the same (aprox).

Do you think I should keep the FOW, or it is worth to get the tarmos?

Thanks to all.

[Nelis]

Keep the FOWs. Fow's will only get more expensive while goyfs probably wont.

[GGoober]

I disagree. For now, Goyf is still higher than FoW. FoW is climbing up, and will probably bypass Goyf, but it's likely that FoW will see a reprint (as a promo/FTV/judge) before Goyfs.

Even putting that aside, popularity of Goyfs is on the rise again, with multiple decks using Goyfs being highly successful (or just staple decks that have always been out there):
Junk
Bant
Zoo
NOShow
Countertop

[pippo84]

First thing to think is what deck would you play? After deciding you will have the answer.

Anyways I would keep FoW, it will get more expensive if it doesn't see a reprint..

[jamesh]

uhh, if you wanna come back to the game and play legacy you'll need both

so the trade is pretty much pointless

[dahcmai]

I would personally keep the Forces, but it's a fair trade either way. Forces have the better potential to go up in price faster later on, though both are quite good. Personally, I would see which is easier for you to obtain in your area, forces or goyfs and keep the one you can't seem to find as easy. Since eventually you are going to want both cards. They are both entirely too useful in this format.

[Tacosnape]

You keep the Forces. If no new formats are created, no reprints happen, and nothing off the wall happens, Force of Will will break $100 within two years, and Tarmogoyf will be down to around $30 and barely playable in Legacy.

[Octopusman]

I think Tacosnape makes a pretty safe prediction.

However pippo84 makes the best point. Figure out what you want to play first. Nothing else considered, I would make the trade. If you have no intention of playing green, keep the FoW. If you have no intention of playing a blue deck with FoW then get the goyfs if you're ever planning on using green.

There's a difference between what is the economically smart trade versus trying to acquire cards that you need for decks. If you do decide that you want to play green and not FoW then I would definitely take the trade as it's in your favor.
Looking at the long term is pointless if you want to start playing now.

I, myself, have FoW but no Goyfs. Because of this, I have made a choice not to use green. However, I prefer to play decks that use FoW > using green.

Some decks that run FoW:
Merfolk
Counter Top
Bant Agro/Control
UW Tempo
Etc

Some decks that run Goyf:
Any deck with green mana
[edit] (thought I would add that I was being facetious to get +10 forum troll resistance)

[comandantenorton83]

First of all, thanks for your answers.

It's true that I need to decide wich color I want to play, and then go on or stop the trade.

I've always played blue, and it's my favourite color. I feel comfortable playing control or aggrocontrol, and don't like playing combo or a very aggro deck. However, playing blue means I'll have a hard time getting the duals, because U duals are the most expensive ones. I only have 2 tropical, 1 tundra and 2 scrublands.

After reading all these forums (decks to beat, established decks), I feel The Rock is one of the decks I like the most, so it is a possible choice, and then it would imply to go on getting the tarmos, and look after some other trading options to get the most expensive cards (maybe 2 tropicals for 3 bayous).

But, despite all of this... it is soooo difficult to say good-bye to my holy FOWs... :cry:

Peace!

PS: very interesting reading your predictions about possible reprints.

[dahcmai]

You do know that Mono-U is actually a viable choice still? It's not bad at all. Merfolk is a hell of a deck and Forces are the largest part of it's expense. I'm playing a deck that's pretty damned cheap aside from Forces and Wastes. Oh ok, there's a couple Jaces in it, but anyway. You can get away without running the duals easily if you stick to fetches and maybe one Ravnica dual to fetch when it really matters. Basics sometimes can actually be a boon.

I'd still keep the Forces anyway despite my love of goyf.

[Jonathan Alexander]

There's also the possibility of trading the Forces for Goyfs and then selling the Goyfs to get new Forces. I think this is what I would do. If that's too risky for you or whatever, keep the Forces. I would never trade my Forces.

[colo]

Will they ever print a better counterspell than Force of Will? No, they won't - because permission is boring (to the casual crowd).

Will they ever print a better critter than Tarmogoyf? Maybe - because creatures are fun.

[warallthetimne]

Always remember that goyf was a future shifted card in futuresight, so there is a very good chance he will ne reprinted. FOW will never be reprinted in a FTV or other non judge foil due to the current change to the wotc change on policy on printing promo versions on cards on the do not reprint list.

[tsabo_tavoc]

FOW will never be reprinted in a FTV or other non judge foil due to the current change to the wotc change on policy on printing promo versions on cards on the do not reprint list.

Except FOW is not on the reserve list for being an Alliance uncommon. However, WotC would certainly take the chance of a reprint to grab some fortune, that is, in some restricted form like FTV, so that the price of FOW is unlikely to be hit.

[Dragon_Whelp]

Always remember that goyf was a future shifted card in futuresight, so there is a very good chance he will ne reprinted.

No, it's actually pretty unlikely. Goyf was created late in development because Planeswalkers had to be cut due to time restrictions (They even had a symbol for the corner and everything), and was not playtested much before being released. It was meant to be a weird Lhurgoyf variant and merely a novelty which was to tell us about the Planeswalker cards before they were released, since they were not in FS.

[Solaran_X]

No, it's actually pretty unlikely. Goyf was created late in development because Planeswalkers had to be cut due to time restrictions (They even had a symbol for the corner and everything), and was not playtested much before being released. It was meant to be a weird Lhurgoyf variant and merely a novelty which was to tell us about the Planeswalker cards before they were released, since they were not in FS.
Actually, it's looking more and more likely every block as the quality of creatures approaches Goyf in that rarity slot (rare). We'll probably see Goyf coming up soon in a few blocks, and I for one relish the moment he is confirmed as a reprint.

So I can feast on the tears of Standard and Extended players again.

[death]

Do you think I should keep the FOW, or it is worth to get the tarmos?


The answer will be plain and simple if you're sure what deck you want to play if you are set on getting back to the game.

FoW is more scarce than Tarmo. Why? Because the artist herself (T.Nielsen) has been hoarding the card for her alterations. lol.

[SlopeeJ]

I'm not going to speculate on what wizards is going to do (who the hell knows, prolly not even them) but forces seems to hold there value better and are going up. But like others have said it depends on what you want to play.

Seems better to just keep your cards and buy the other cards you need for the deck you want. Trading doesn't really seem to get you anywhere because you will need both sets if you want to play legacy (for the most part)

[comandantenorton83]

Thanks to everybody, your replies are interesting and, of course, full of sense.

I know that I first need to decide wich deck to use. I'm not planning in building an unbeatable deck, because I'm just going to play at my local shop, so I don't plan to invest a large amount o money (I'll never go to a GP or something like that). I want to trade as much as I can to build up a deck as competitive as possible, but, as I said, just to play at local tournaments.

I have 3 Fows, wich may be the most difficult cards to get when building a Merfolk deck, so it could be a possibility.
I also have some cards to build a Rock/Junk deck, as i.e. some discard, Sensei's divining top, some KotR, 5 fetches, StP, 2 scrublands and 3 goyfs, if I trade for them using my FOWs -> so here is my question again :-D

Also have some other cards not suitable in these decks, being 2 tropical islands and 1 tundra the most valuable ones; not a great treasure, I know :-(, but may be useful to get some cards to build a deck.

So, after being out of legacy for such a long time, I would like to trade some cards, buy some others (the less, the better) and get a deck able to play at my local shop nowadays; not need to be the best there, but at least not to be the worst :-)

Thanks again, nice to read you.

[Dragon_Whelp]

FoW is more scarce than Tarmo. Why? Because the artist herself (T.Nielsen) has been hoarding the card for her alterations. lol.

But FoW is uncommon.

[Admiral_Arzar]

But FoW is uncommon.

Yes, but remember that the print run of Alliances was many times smaller than that of Future Sight.

To the OP: Keep FOW. It's currently on a meteoric spike in price that will make it difficult to get ahold of it again. Goyf, on the other hand, is not increasing to that degree.

[from Cairo]

I'd definitely keep the Force of Wills from a long term point of view of card value. As many have mentioned if you want to build Rock/Junk then the trade shifts from being an assessment of value/playability to one of what you're actually putting to use.

Blue based Force of Will decks have always been a cornerstone of the format. One can speculate that either of the cards will see reprinting at some point; I think there's merit to each of the positions as to why either or both would appear in some way in the future. Creature power creep has definitely been aparent for a few blocks though - to me it seems much more likely that other similarly powerful creatures will continue to see print, where there will likely never be a new counterspell printed on par with Force of Will.