Cheeri0s

[magiclovr]

Here's a deck I've played at a SCG 5k and two Jupiter Games events. While it's a very powerful combo deck, like most goldfish combo it hates Fow/Thoughtseize/Trinisphere, etc... The deck goldfishes pretty consistantly by turn 2, and almost always by turn 3. Every once in a while the Glimpse combo will "fizzle", but the good news is that the combo fodder is creature permanents, so they can chump for a while until Scapegoat restocks the hand or another combo piece comes out. The sideboard is transformative for this reason, as the deck can't effectively use hate that well. It does have the Brain Freeze as a way to combat Lands/Doomsday/Life/any other deck that can effectively negate damage. Anyway, here's the current list:


// The fodder:
4x Crimson Kobolds
4x Kobolds of Kher Keep
4x Crookshank Kobolds
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Phyrexian Walker
4x Skyshroud Cutter
4x Shield Sphere

// The mana:
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Lotus Petal
1x Savannah
1x Taiga
1x Tropical Island
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Verdant Catacombs

//The combo:
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Personal Tutor
2x Scapegoat

// The kills:
1x Beastmaster Ascension
1x Grapeshot

// Sideboard:
3x Beastmaster Ascension
1x Spawning Pit
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Brain Freeze
4x Contested War Zone
4x Signal Pest
1x Sylvan Library

[Paul Denton]

I experimented with a similar build a while ago, but I wasn't able to make anything more than a slower version of belcher that wasn't any more resilient to FoW and Thoughtseize.

I did have Xantid Swarm and a few other anti-hate cards on my sideboard though. I also have 1-2 less spirit guides and 1-2 more lands. How useful has the transformational sideboard been for you? Even post sideboard it seems it's still vulnerable to hate if they wasteland your warzone or counter your pest.

[magiclovr]

Yes, TES/ANT and Belcher are still faster and while this can (and has) gone off turn 1, it does so with a little less regularity than those two. It is noticibly quicker than "slow combo" like Painter/Stone, Reanimator, Elves, Thopter/Sword, etc. What I like about it in regards to "faster" combo is that it has a bit more resiliancy than those as the combo fuel aren't mana cantrips, but creatures. This gives the deck some legs in that it can just turn 'em sideways for the win if the storm piece gets stripped away/stifled.

I wouldn't do more lands, as then you get below 50% 0-cmc effective creatures, and every one below 30 does increase the combo fizzle % a fair amount. The only time I've ever had mana issues was against Stax (with Armageddon), and that's almost a bye for them anyway...

As for the SB, it's pretty effective agaist U based control. The biggest value from it is that people auto-dump their spot removal and their enchantment hate as all they see the first game is a storm kill (hopefully). So, by turning into an aggro deck post board (-4 personal tutor, -2 Scapegoat, -1 Grapeshot, -4 Shield Sphere, -2 Skyshroud Cutter, +4 contested war zone, +4 Signal Pest, +3 Beastmaster Ascension, +1 Spawning Pit, +1 Goblin Bombardment) you blank quite a bit and they're more likely to keep a hand designed to stop combo, not race aggro. I've seen lots of Leyline of Sanctity in G2 when I didn't have a single thing in my deck that could target them anyway... The Glimpses (post board) are just for value and I hope to get maybe 3-4 extra draws off them. Yeah, they may swords a pest or waste a CWZ, but then an ascension gets 'em. Once in a while you will still go off by hitting two or three glimpses, but it's rare and they're just there to get the card advantage. Against anything with Hymn to Tourach or Thoughtsieze, I'm bringing in the miser Sylvan Library as that can turn things around nicely.

[LegacyInferno]

The last mox tournament I went to, my first round I played against Cheeri0s. I was playing Goblins, and while I did great in my other match ups I lost miserably to cheeri0s the deck was much faster than my goblins. my opponent just overran me with BMA and even post board I still had a difficult time with his insane ramp.

[Lord_Cyrus]

Decks like this and Elves! are a good reason why you should consider playing Pyrostatic Pillar in your Gobbos deck instead of just Thorn of Amythyst or Mindbreak Trap. Pyro Pillar is incredibly hard for a combo deck to fight. It can be hard for them to remove it without taking lethal damage if you've already hit them a few times.

[magiclovr]

Yup, I definately hate to see the Pillar come in against me. That's when the game plan is to switch to plan B and hope to get an Ascension on line, or if you're boarding hate instead of an Aggro plan, the Nature's Claims and Krosan Grips come in. My only losses with the deck to R based aggro (Gobbos, Burn, Boros or otherwise) have been as a result of variance (glimpse fizzle, mull to oblivion, etc.).

[HokusSchmokus]

Yup, I definately hate to see the Pillar come in against me. That's when the game plan is to switch to plan B and hope to get an Ascension on line, or if you're boarding hate instead of an Aggro plan, the Nature's Claims and Krosan Grips come in. My only losses with the deck to R based aggro (Gobbos, Burn, Boros or otherwise) have been as a result of variance (glimpse fizzle, mull to oblivion, etc.).

Sorry, but what Claims or Grips are you referring to?Also why the Brain freeze and what do you do against chalice?

[magiclovr]

Sorry, but what Claims or Grips are you referring to?Also why the Brain freeze and what do you do against chalice?

Nature's Claim Krosan Grip The Brain Freeze is for decks like MUD running Emperion or any other deck that has a way of gaining a LOT of life. Also pretty handy against Lands running Glacial Chasm. I've used it during an Ant/TES or Belcher player while going off using their storm count to get them pretty good. Also great against Doomsday once they make a stack of Sheldock Isle, Emrakul, and cloud of Faeries.

Against Chalice on 0, just go off anyway as you don't need the Lotus Petals to win. Remember you get the glimpse triggers even if your 0cc creatures are countered. It certainly makes the BMA plan pretty lousy, so you're all in on the Grapeshot. Against Chalice on 1, you're pretty f**cked... If I see that game one, I'm going aggro. Chalice on 2 is a non-event, so they'll probably never do it.

[HokusSchmokus]

Nature's Claim Krosan Grip The Brain Freeze is for decks like MUD running Emperion or any other deck that has a way of gaining a LOT of life. Also pretty handy against Lands running Glacial Chasm. I've used it during an Ant/TES or Belcher player while going off using their storm count to get them pretty good. Also great against Doomsday once they make a stack of Sheldock Isle, Emrakul, and cloud of Faeries.

Against Chalice on 0, just go off anyway as you don't need the Lotus Petals to win. Remember you get the glimpse triggers even if your 0cc creatures are countered. It certainly makes the BMA plan pretty lousy, so you're all in on the Grapeshot. Against Chalice on 1, you're pretty f**cked... If I see that game one, I'm going aggro. Chalice on 2 is a non-event, so they'll probably never do it.

I know what the cards are ,I just cannot find them in your sb:p

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I've been testing a janked-out list that's sort of similar to this on MWS sometimes.

From my experiences, I can recommend trying these things: Gaea's Cradle possibly with 1 Crop Rotation thrown in for good measure (so you can tap one Cradle for obscene mana, and then Crop Rotation it for your second copy, in order to make "(obscene mana *2) -1".) This land enables you to run (or at least test) some crazy shit, like Banefire as an alternate win (I think it's the strongest thing to use alongside Cradle), Collective Unconscious, Biorhythm, etc. (And yeah, I'll concede these last two examples are probably 'win-more' they're just the first examples I thought of besides Banefire, which is the only one I've actually been using in my list.)

Also try out: Diabolic Intent... Seriously, WTF? Why not use this as at least a 1-2 of if your Plan A is "Grapeshot to the dome on the back of Glimpse of Nature"?? I realize this deck draws a shit-ton of cards with Glimpse, and you're not running black right now, but it seems really sloppy to not run any tutors, when you only run 2 cards maindeck that can actually win you the game.

Elvish Spirit Guide, although I can see how it might be a necessary evil (since neither Chrome Mox or Mox Opal would be quite right)... Looks ass-ugly. Would Land Grant be any better perhaps? Granted, they can counter it, but countering it would usually be the wrong play anyhow (as opposed to countering the Glimpse that it represents)... And it adds to Storm count. I think the question is, do you ever play Spirit Guide on your fundamental turn, as a creature, so you can draw an extra card? Because if not, I think Land Grant is better.

Also, I have to second the question on how good the transformational sideboard has been for you? Personally, my first instinct is to try things like Xantid Swarm, Nature's Claim, Shattering Spree, Red Elemental Blast, Serenity, and Autumn's Veil... Basically just go for the silver bullet approach. But IDK.

And finally, has Skyshroud Cutter been good? I've been playing a list with less free creatures (and wanting a few more), but he seems kinda 'meh' to me, in the sense that giving your opponent 5 life is kind of like giving yourself minus four Storm count (if Grapeshot is your primary win). Have you tried using Wild Cantor and/or Tinder Wall in his slot?

Anyhow... Nice list though, it makes me want to go back and fine-tune mine a bit, then test more. And definitely try out Gaea's Cradle, it's one of the more powerful plays a shell like this is capable of making, IMO.

EDIT: One more crazy idea out of left field would be to experiment with Pattern of Rebirth ->> Emrakul/Progenitus. But it would require a consistent number of cheap-ass creature sac outlets. (Culling the Weak seems like a good place to start if you want to try working in Pattern.)

DOUBLE EDIT: Another thing worth mentioning, although I'm not sure it will eventually make the cut, is that Cloudstone Curio gives you a pretty easy way to generate infinite Storm count with this deck. Unfortunately, the "nonartifact" clause really hurts it, but it might still be useful sideboard material... Somehow?

[magiclovr]

I know what the cards are ,I just cannot find them in your sb:p

Ah, got it. That was a reference to when I play with a more "hate filled" SB as opposed to the current "go aggro" SB. They're not in the list I'm playing currently, but have been in prior lists.

[magiclovr]

Good points:

Re: Cradle and Rotation - That's actually pretty close to the list I played at SCG 5k in Boston last year. The deck was built sub-optimal, but without the cradles and rotations it gained a lot of consistancy in going off. Cradle can be found in the SB if I'm expecting Tabernacle. It's also fun to have a cradle and a Terrastadon coming from the board.

Re: Diabolic Intent - I never knew this card existed... Wow, I just might buy... all of them. This is sick in a deck like this, and I have tested it with Bayou's, Cabal Therapy, and other assorted black goodness in the SB where this would fit in perfectly... Well, it's not like I'm not running any tutors. The 4 personal tutors are in there to make sure glimpse is either in my opener, or there next turn. As a side note, it's doesn't draw a ton of cards, it actually draws the whole library. When you're done going off, you have all but 1 or 2 cards of your library in your hand. No need for a tutor at that point. Yes, I have had a couple of times where one of the bottom two cards of my library was Grapeshot (thankfully only in testing), which is one reason the BMA is in there...

Re: ESG - Absolutely wouldn't cut this. I'd say it gets cast as a creature (while going off, as a last resort to keep the glimpse going) maybe 5% of the time. It does get cast in games 2-3 a bit more as a creature when things like Engineered Plague and Engineered Explosives come in. It's nice as an outlet, but that's not the main reason I run it. It's un-counterable mana that you can dump all at once as you collect them in your hand while going off. I tested all the moxes and land grant for a time, but IMHO ESG is definately the way to go for this type of a build. Storm count isn't a problem. I've gotten opponents up to 34 life on turn 2 by going off and needing to use the Skyshroud Cutters, and still gotten the storm to 34 to get them. This is also why I almost never get the glimpse count up to 3. Doing so will only let you get your storm count up to high teens, maybe above 20 as you'll deck yourself before it gets there.

Re: Skyshroud Cutter - Yup, he's a rockstar. The -5 storm count doesn't matter unless you fizzle (<10%) or have to use all 4 of them to keep a glimpse going (hasn't happened yet) as your storm count when you're done is in the 30's. He's also great in that it's a 4cc, so Counterbalance can't usually touch him and Engineered Explosives doesn't typically get him. I have won games with BMA and Cutters when my Grapeshot got Stifled and my 0cc's got EE'd. I've got a buddy who plays a very similar list, but has Shifting Walls and Phyrexian Marauders in there. His Scapegoats aren't as effective and he gets creamed by EE, but his fizzle % is a little bit lower. It's a trade off.

Re: Cloudston Curio - Tested with it for a while, but the real problem was that it was a 3cc. If it was 2cc, it certainly is crazy as you can cast it early enough and go off on 1 glimpse. I can't say I tested it (or played it optimally) the best it could have been, but the card certainly has potential. I think I cut it when I drew it and only had Memnite, Walker, and Ornithopter in play.

Thanks for the feedback! I do waffle between the "storm" build of this and the dedicated "BMA" build of this. While the BMA one is more fun, it then loses to other fast combo, which is annoying. It does, however, beat on U control pretty well.

[kicks_422]

Why not use Shifting Wall instead of Cutter? That way, you can even cut the fetches/duals in favor of Gemstone Mine and City of Brass.

[magiclovr]

Why not use Shifting Wall instead of Cutter? That way, you can even cut the fetches/duals in favor of Gemstone Mine and City of Brass.

Then Scapegoat becomes less effective, as you're almost always paying 0 for the walls and marauders so they aren't around to pull back in. Also, with the walls and shield spheres, you can end up with not enough attackers to trigger BMA in one swing for lethal...

One note on the fetches: I'm no math major, and I'm sure others can do the statistics, but the way I run the deck it's 53.3% 0cc main deck. To go off with a double glimpse, having two extra lands out of the deck on turn 2 when going off does actually make a statistical difference.

[KærvekTheMerciless]

as your storm count when you're done is in the 30's


Haze of Rage
Emblem of the Warmind

Replace BF and CWZ on the board. This combo is just silly.

Edit: Now that I think about this, storm 30's = ~22-27 creatures, +1 Emblem, +1 Haze, that's somewhere in the range of 8-900 damage. :-D

[Modus Pwnens]

I've been giving a thought about this deck... ins't it just better to run Goblin Bushwhacker instead of beastmaster ascension? i mean, you are gonna win anyway with 20+ creatures 1+/x that happens to have Haste


also... this deck can have some infinite mana/turns/cards if you add 1 Emrakul, the aeons torn, 1 Time Sieve, 1 Tireless tribe and 1 Spawning pit or 1 goblin bombardment (you can draw everything in your deck with glimpse by turn 2 or 3, anyway)... even Infinite Tokens/dmg!

the infinite mana comes from drawing all your deck everytime you discard emrakul, then you can use multiples Lotus Petal, and multiple glimpses, the infinite creatures comes from sacrificing your fodder to goblin bombardment or spawning pit, then discarding emrakul, just to buy everything again with glimpse. you can even hardcast emrakul, take how many turns you want with time sieve, or just kill with grapeshot anyway

[magiclovr]

A friend who plays a similar list does play with haze of rage and concordant crossroads/mass hysteria. What I don't like about it is that the crossroads/hysteria is another dead card when ur going off and if u open on it u want to cry...

I've tested it as a G/R with bushwhackers, living wishes, haze, simian spirit guides, etc. While that does make iit a bit more consistent, it does make it a little more brittle to disruption.

Not saying the SB is great, but having it be more resilient with repeatable sources I dont think is silly...

[gotohells]

Hi, I also had an idea of a similar deck, but the problem I had was not drawing glimpse, that's where I found another draw engine to support the first one: chalice of the void @ 0 + multani's presence
(wich let you draw cards from dead petal and chalices as you draw your deck)

I use Obstinate Familiar as a 1-2 of to make sure i don't die from drawing

I also use street wraith to play with a smaller deck

I tried storm entity in the deck (a fizzle with 10 storm count means a 2 turns clock) but I wasn't sure

I also like the idea of Beastmaster ascension + concordant crossroads for an aggro plan (maybe in SB)

here is my deck list:

4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Memnite
1 Obstinate Familiar
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Street Wraith

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Grapeshot
4 Lotus Petal
4 Multani's Presence

4 city of brass

[Mr. Safety]

I played against a Cheerios list on MWS a little while ago...Gaea's Cradle is effin' NUTS in the deck. Usually, it's the only land the deck needs to go off.

In 3 games I saw:

1) 2 games where they landed a turn 1 Garruk Wildspeaker, suspending the Overrun, and attacking FTW on the next turn
2) 1 game where they didn't get Cradle, but still Glimpse-ed about 10 dudes onto the table and landed Beastmaster Ascension on turn 3.

The deck is good, and fast. When you can Glimpse turn 1 and get about 10-12 creatures onto the table off of an Elvish Spirit Guide/Lotus Petal, you know that the deck is at least fast enough to compete. Turn 2 wins aren't uncommon, and turn 3 wins are pretty typical. That's fast enough to compete with Elves/TES/ANT and is faster than Sligh/Spring Tide.

[evanmartyr]

Cabal Therapy might deserve a home here. You have the means to cast it twice no problem, and since you usually don't care about crippling the other deck, just clearing the way, you can just get rid of the one thing keeping you from going off successfully and leave it at that.

Beastmaster's Ascension would be a good SB card (they side in anti-storm stuff, you side out your big combo enablers and just attack for the win) but it seems unnecessary in the maindeck, since you can just run Bushwhacker (which actually contributes somewhat to the combo before you've reached the point of winning).

I would make every effort to squeeze Therapies into the maindeck. I like Diabolic Intent a lot, but in this deck you're not actually using Ritual-esque things to accelerate the deck, so it doesn't really perform the desired function, which is ensuring a turn 2 Glimpse. Personal Tutor is a much better fit here.

Man, Chalice @ 1 and Mental Misstep just wreck you. I dunno if I'd have the balls to try this at a SCG over something that had a bit more immunity to that sort of thing.

[magiclovr]

Interesting stuff... I've never even heard of chalice/presence as a combo: That is pretty saucy! Sadly, I do believe the Mental Misstep will be a nail in the coffin for this kind of deck. It just relies way to much on resolving a 1cc (glimpse, tutor, scapegoat) that I just don't see it having the legs to get by a deck packing 4-ofs daze/fow/misstep. That will definately be a loss. Heck, even if I brought in Multani's Presence out of the board that would eat a misstep itself!

I am trying to build a G/b version of this with cabal therapy, duress, and assorted black disruption as a way to board effectively against U decks. By taking out all the 1-drops in the maindeck and going with a pure BMA kill condition, I think that it's viable. I just need to get the right ratios down. Unfortunately, I won't be at GP Providence due to a prior conflict, so I'll probably be waiting to see what lists that spawns to see how to effectively fight MM.

[magiclovr]

Interesting stuff... I've never even heard of chalice/presence as a combo: That is pretty saucy! Sadly, I do believe the Mental Misstep will be a nail in the coffin for this kind of deck. It just relies way to much on resolving a 1cc (glimpse, tutor, scapegoat) that I just don't see it having the legs to get by a deck packing 4-ofs daze/fow/misstep. That will definately be a loss. Heck, even if I brought in Multani's Presence out of the board that would eat a misstep itself!

I am trying to build a G/b version of this with cabal therapy, duress, and assorted black disruption as a way to board effectively against U decks. By taking out all the 1-drops in the maindeck and going with a pure BMA kill condition, I think that it's viable. I just need to get the right ratios down. Unfortunately, I won't be at GP Providence due to a prior conflict, so I'll probably be waiting to see what lists that spawns to see how to effectively fight MM.

[magiclovr]

Well, here is a small tourney report from the first tourney I've played in with the deck since Mental Misstep came on the scene. The MD 60 was the same, but the SB was as follows:

2x Gaea's Cradle
1x Vexing Shusher
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Xantid Swarm
3x Beastmaster Ascension
3x Signal Pest
1x Brain Freeze

Round 1: vs. Goblins
Game1: I knew he was on goblins, so I kept a fine hand and just waited two turns to maximize my creature count while not exposing lands to wasteland/rishadan port. Went off turn three with a storm count in the 30's.
Game2: He didn't have a sideboard, so I knew there was no mindbreak traps coming in against me. Same as Game 1.
1-0

Round 2: vs. Affinity w/ Tezz
Game1: Based on what I saw of his deck, I figured I would have 3 turns to sculpt before needing to go off for fear of an alpha strike from a cranially equipped artifact. This worked fine except I made a major face-palm error to throw the game. T3, with one glimpse resolved, I had drawn a few 0's, a personal tutor, a scapegoat, and a fetch land. Having used the savannah I had in play to cast the glimpse, I needed to play the fetch, crack for tropical island, play the tutor to draw the second glimpse, and then draw into any mana source with the remaining 3 0's in hand to play the scapegoat or the second glimpse and roll from there. Pretty good odds of this working like normal. Instead, I thought the savannah was untapped and fetched the taiga instead, since a scapgoat here is better than the tutor for glimpse without the extra mana source in hand. With no way to play the tutor or keep the glimpse going (except by drawing a lotus petal to play the scapegoat) I fizzled and died before being able to reset. VERY DUMB and a good example of why I'll never be a great player. A few 5/5 ornithopter hits ended me around turn 7 or 8.
Game2: No sideboarding. I opened on a pretty nut draw and killed quick as he didn't have misstep. I think it was my turn 1 or 2 on the draw.
Game3: No sideboarding. I knew from scouting that he was playing misstep from the board, so I knew I would have to wait until I could overwhelm him before trying to go off. I opened on a glimpse, creatures, and no mana sources. On the draw against a non-storm deck I figured I could wait. He came out pretty quick and countered my first glimpse on turn 3. Fearing mindbreak trap as well, I passed the turn rather than cast the second glimpse as my third spell. He hit me down to 5 and then I drew another glimpse for my turn. He countered the first, I resolved the second, but now knew the odds of getting the 4th glimpse were slim. I drew a bunch but didn't hit the glimpse in time before fizzling. Fortunately, the creatures I landed clogged up the board and he didn't have any direct damage. Once I was able to untap, I cast the scapegoat to pull 'em all back and then cast the glimpse to go off again and take it down.
2-0

Round 3: vs. G/B/u junk.
I knew this would be a bad matchup for me as my deck gets creamed by disruption with counter backup.
Game1: I open a on decent hand that quickly gets torn apart by fast thoughtseize/hymn to tourach. After turn 2 I was left with two memnites, a kobold, and a beastmaster's ascension in hand. He had gotten knocked down to 15 from his fetches/thoughtseize/FoW so I figured memnite beatdown would be the way to go! Also, if I drew land I could lay the ascension and maybe get there through removal! It almost worked as the memnites got him down to 5 before he stabilized and landed goyfs/confidants/terravores to turn the tide.
Game2: Sideboard: +3 xantid swarm, +4 Signal Pest, +2 Gaea's Cradle, +1 Garruk, +3 beastmaster's ascension, +1 vexing shusher, -4 personal tutor, -4 shield sphere, -1 scapegoat, -4 skyshroud cutter, -1 grapeshot. I opened on a nut draw (2 glimpses, a fetch, spirit guide, 3 kobolds) and he didn't have enough disruption. I drew most of my library and passed the turn with 16 creatures in play and my hand (after discarding) consisting of 2 gaea's cradle, garruk, 2 ascensions, 2 xantid swarm. He untapped, thoughtseized to make sure I didn't just keep one ascension, and conceeded. Double glimpsing is unusual after boarding as the fizzle % goes up quite a bit when the deck goes from 53% 0-cc creatures to 40% 0-cc creatures (plus 8 1-cc creatures) after boarding. Since the storm win goes out after board, the glimpses are usually just to make sure that you've got enough creatures to overwhelm with multiple ascensions or garruk.
Game3: No sideboarding. Similar to game 1, I had a good hand, but his was better as FoW/Misstep x2/Extirpate left me with not much after turn 3. Fortunately it left him without much either and I did have a good opening to rebuild quicker than he did (I still had all my 0's). He landed a Jace and started fatesealing me. Since I was holding a fetch in hand as well as a elvish spirit guide, I was just one mana away from being able to land a drawn ascension and put him on a quick clock. Three turns later, he fateseals, reads the card, and leaves it on top. I make the comment, "Huh, usually any card in my deck that needs reading automatically goes to the bottom..." and he shrugs. I draw the card and it's ascension! At this point, it's about my only win condition as my glimpses are gone (extirpate) and the grapeshot was boarded out. By this time I do have 4 kobolds, 1 ornithopter, 1 phyrexian walker, and 2 memnites on the board. If I draw a mana source and he doesn't counter ascension he's dead! Of course, he puts 2 lotus petals on the bottom with jace and I don't draw any of the other sources in 4 turns before he plays and pops a pernicious deed to clear my board. Afterward, I ask why he gave me the ascension and he mentioned that he didn't think I'd be able to cast it as he didn't see any mana sources and knew it cost 3. I think he forgot about the spirit guides and the fact I might have been sandbagging my mana in hand to dodge wasteland. He did admit to not having a counter in hand for it either. Oh, how I would have loved to peel any mana source to cast that ascension and alpha strike...
2-1

Round 4: vs. Merfolk
This is usually a terrible matchup for me as FoW/daze are quite good at keeping storm in check. With misstep and daze as well, I expected things to get ugly.
Game1: I get a gift as he mulls down to 2 after pitching hands with all or no mana. He knows what I'm playing and I'm pretty sure he was also mulling down to cursecatcher/daze/Fow/misstep. Turns out his 2 card had was daze and island, and the first card he drew was misstep. Not a bad way to come back from a mull to 2... I still managed to go off through the daze and misstep and combo'd out.
Game2: Sideboard: +3 xantid swarm, +4 Signal Pest, +2 Gaea's Cradle, +1 Garruk, +3 beastmaster's ascension, +1 vexing shusher, -4 personal tutor, -4 shield sphere, -1 scapegoat, -4 skyshroud cutter. Basically everything but the brain freeze comes in against merfolk as I try to transform from combo to aggro and just overwhelm. We both keep our 7's. He leads with a cursecatcher. Smile. I lead with 5 0-drops, a gaea's cradle, and an ascension. Later I find out that when he read ascension he thought it triggered with 6 counters instead of 7, and it changed how he played his creatures. I'm not sure it was going to matter as he couldn't have killed me the next turn and then was facing 25 points of combat damage. Anyway, I swing on turn 2 to get 5 counters on it. He kills 2 of my 0's and I pass after playing a xantid swarm and spirit guide. He puts down a couple of fish and passes back. I swing for 27 (one of the 0's was a memnite), he chumps what he can and goes down to 10. He dies on the next swing.
3-1

I still think fish is a bad matchup for me and things had to go my way to 2-0 a good merfolk player. The transformative board worked well as it blanks much of what they bring in by switching away from combo. Xantid swarm works well as if it resolves as it give you the freedom to just play around cursecatcher. If they FoW a glimpse game 2 it works out quite well in your favor as they can't 2-for-1 themselves and win easily.

At this point it was 9:30 and I had to get to volleyball practice, so I scooped to the merfolk player and dropped. I think I would have been the #2 seed for the top 4 playoff, but unfortunately couldn't skip practice with volleyball Nationals being so close. Oh well.

[magiclovr]

Just a quick update on Cheerios: I recently started playing om MTGO and buit the deck there to test and play with. I've been getting better with it (making less sub-optimal decisions) and it has been performing prett well. The only big issue it has with mtgo is that Skyshroud Cutter isn't an available card, so those have been replaced MD with two signal pests and two phyrexian marauders. This has helped the deck by being able to still win by signal pest even when glimpse gets countered. It is worse against engineered explosives however and that has come up a couple times.

For those interested in seeing the deck in action for a T1 kill, I did record a replay from a recent daily event. Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yUTqtxHzGc

[1maarten1]

Allright with Misstep banned this might be playable again! Lets start testing again :).

[Lancer]

Allright with Misstep banned this might be playable again! Lets start testing again :).


lol... Force of Will is still a problem child...

MY decklist:

0 chump creatures
3 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds

Damage Makers
2 Salvage Titan
3 Signal Pest

Instant Win Condition
2 Goblin Bushwhacker

Tutor/Draw
3 Burning Wish
3 Glimpse of Nature

lands/mana
2 Taiga
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Tinder Wall
3 Wild Cantor
3 Land Grant

Sideboard/Wishboard
Wish
1 Glimpse of Nature
1 Land Grant
1 Haze of Rage
1 Grapeshot

Side
3 Contested War Zone
4 Multani's Presence
4 (open)

[KidA]

Finished 3rd in a 57 man tournament (going 5-1) with this Cheerios list

4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Multani's Presence
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Songs of the Damned
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Force of Will

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou

//Sideboard
3 Beastmaster Ascension
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Signal Pest
4 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest


My match-ups were Mono-green something (combo'd before I could see what it was), re-animator (my only loss), U/B infect, R/B goblins, ANT, R/B goblins.

The sideboard was hastily thrown together in an attempt to have a plan B after the Tendrils of Agony plan might be revealed in game 1. Beastmaster Ascension was the only card I really made use of out of the sideboard and maybe a Forest vs. Wasteland. It has to be said that I got extremely favourable match-ups avoiding any discard or control heavy decks. Lucky, given there were many Snapcaster Mage/Stoneforge Mystic decks in the tournament. Also, the only discard effects that I faced were Surgical Extraction and a nasty Earwig Squad. My hands, mulligans and draws were also decent and it seems the deck relies a fair amount on luck.

The four Force of Will are there to combat opposing Force of Will and counters, as I cannot use Pact of Negation because of the Chalice of the Void @ 0 and Multani's Presence combination. Tutors to be considered in the main deck would be either Diabolic Intent or to replace one of the Bayou with a Tropical Island and use Personal Tutor. For a new sideboard I am considering using Pithing Needle vs. Wasteland and maybe Cabal Therapy, Autumn's Veil, Xantid Swarm, Nature's Claim.

Feedback and criticism is most welcome.

[Gocho]

Finished 3rd in a 57 man tournament (going 5-1) with this Cheerios list

xDD
Congratulations!

With only 4 blue cards (the 4 FOW), do you find 2 of them enough times to remove a blue card?
Perhaps Autumn's Veil could be a better choice

[KidA]

The four Force of Will are meant for when you have already drawn your entire deck, so that you have all four in your hand ready for if they try to counter your Songs of the Damned or Tendrils of Agony.

This was not a problem yesterday as the only deck I faced with counters was re-animator and the U/B infect deck sided some Spell Pierce, but did not draw them in time.

The four Force of Will could be replaced with one Forest and three Autumn's Veil, or maybe four Cabal Therapy. These slots I am not so sure about. Not sure about the sideboard either.

Maybe go with something like this

4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Multani's Presence
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Songs of the Damned
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Autumn's Veil

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
1 Forest

//Sideboard
3 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Nature's Claim
4 Pithing Needle
4 ????

[Gocho]

If your opponent is smart enough, he would try to counter Glimpse, not Tendrils :P

[Gocho]

If your opponent is smart enough, he would try to counter Glimpse, not Tendrils :P

[magiclovr]

I've been playing it online a bit and have some decent vids posted on Youtube. Search for magiclovr or mtg legacy cheeri0s and you should find it.

[Choux]

At least +1 mox opal. I played a retract and riddlesmith list ( for storming more, maybe a good idea but it depend ), and with also Frogmite *3 or *4.


My 2 ct

[magiclovr]

Just an update on the list as I've been playing it quite a bit online and have tuned it to a list that I'm pretty comfortable on right now. New Phyrexia and Avacyn Restored added a few goodies that help the deck out and here's the list I'm running currently:

Fuel:
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Skyshroud Cutter
1 Signal Pest

Combo:
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Personal Tutor
1 Scapegoat
1 Grapeshot
1 Beastmaster Ascension

Mana:
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Forest
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacomb

Sideboard: Since this is about as fast as any combo out there, the SB is geared mainly to beat control. Thanks to the Noxious Revivals, it does have decent splash hate against Reanimator/Dredge.
3 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Sprout Swarm
4 Noxious Revival
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Signal Pest

Basically the plan is to transform from combo to aggro beatdown with the extra Ascensions and Pests. The Sprout Swarm does come in handy as well as it can clog up a board and keep giving you chumpers for goyfs until you find business. The Revivals are great at giving you extra chances to glimpse if it gets countered/Thoughtseized away. They also are fun to bring in against Dredge (on the draw) as they can mulligan to Cabal Therapy and strip you of Glimpses. Works well against reanimator by sticking Griselbrand back onto their library when they attempt to Exhume.

[Philipp2293]

Concerning the "transformational" part of your SB, what do you take out when you bring in the beatdown stuff?

[Basara]

what about adding battle hymn+banefire , making ridicolous amounts of mana for the win?

[rstevens]

Cheeri0s (28)
4 crookshank kobolds
4 memnite
4 shiled sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Ornithopter
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crimson Kobolds

Combo peices (14)
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Multani's Presence
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Enlightened Tutor
mana producers (10)
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
2 wild cantor

The kill (2)
1 Songs of the Damned
1 Tendrils of Agony

Mana (6)
4 Misty rainforest
2 savanna
1 Forest

I just picked the deck up and was wondering what everyone thinks about this list.

Edit i put the PHP aound the cards and it did not work, so i removed them to make it more visible.

[kwis]

I'm a bit confused about why you opted for the fetchland package over something like a rainbow manabase. I feel like you'd probably be less vulnerable with City of Brass/Gemstone mines since I don't see you using your mana sources much more than your combo turns.

I didn't see land grant so I assume you cut it out because it is a weakness because if you rely on it and it tanks a force you tend to lose.

[Cybey]

If you're going for a beatdown package, why wouldn't you run a single Concordant Crossroads, Burst of Speed or even a Goblin Bushwhacker?

If you are really trying to show-off, use Mortal Combat as kill ;)

[rstevens]

If you're going for a beatdown package, why wouldn't you run a single Concordant Crossroads, Burst of Speed or even a Goblin Bushwhacker?

If you are really trying to show-off, use Mortal Combat as kill ;)

I have acually looked into Goblin Bushwhacker and signel pest as a one of in the deck, they are general usless 99% of the time.

I do like the idea of the ranbow lands though, Even though they do not thin my deck, it would nice to not have to warry about what land to get.

[trevaftw]

Hey guys!

I got interested in cheeri0s by reading about it on another site and after reading thourhg this thread and seeing crop rotation and gaea's cradle, it gave me an idea to change the mana sources. My current list is this:


mana sources - 15
1x tropical island
1x taiga
1x savannah
4x lotus petal
4x land grant
2x Summoner's Pact
2x Elvish Spirit Guide

Spells - 11
4x Glimpse of nature
4x Personal Tutor
3x Scapegoat
2x Wild Cantor

Win - 2
2x Grapeshot

Cheerios - 30
4x memnite
4x ornithopter
4x shield sphere
4x phyrexian walker
4x crimson kobolds
4x kobolds of kher keep
4x crookshank kobolds
2x shifting wall


I'm thinking though if I change the mana base to this

2x gaea's cradle
3x crop rotation
4x lotus petal
4x land grant
1x tropical island
1x taiga
1x savannah


It will easily allow for things with higher CMC, such as banefire, double beastmaster ascension, overrun, etc. etc. Lotus petal and wild cantor can provide mana fixing, too.

[grokh]

Hi,

Why not trying Muraganda petroglyphs as a win-condition ?

All your kobolds would gain the +2/+2 bonus for a big strike !

[MaximumC]

Hi,

Why not trying Muraganda petroglyphs as a win-condition ?

All your kobolds would gain the +2/+2 bonus for a big strike !

Because Beastmaster's Ascension is better and the deck doesnt want to run 8 of these effects?

[metamet]

http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MAG_GTC/ImmortalServitude.jpg

?

[trevaftw]

I really doubt this will be any good. It might (and that's pushing it) be worth playing as a 1-of if you're going to the Beastmaster Acension win and they wipe the board, but even then you need 3 white mana to do it which can be pretty hard (especially when your build might run only 3 lands and only one produces white).

[trevaftw]

Anyone have any thoughts on how well cloudstone curio would work in this deck? I feel like it might be worth as a one of so if glimpse fizzles into it, i have a guaranteed backup for storm.

[Hireax]

A question out of curiosity.

You cut the Pacts and Spirit Guides completely. Is this due to the availability of high CMC spells only? Or do you also forsee the potential countering of the Pact as an issue to drop it?

On another note, would Burning-Tree Emissary be an option for you? It replaces itself under a Glimpse and gives you the invested mana back as well to add to your storm count for free, essentially.

Cheer(i0)s,
Kevin

[trevaftw]

A question out of curiosity.

You cut the Pacts and Spirit Guides completely. Is this due to the availability of high CMC spells only? Or do you also forsee the potential countering of the Pact as an issue to drop it?

On another note, would Burning-Tree Emissary be an option for you? It replaces itself under a Glimpse and gives you the invested mana back as well to add to your storm count for free, essentially.

Cheer(i0)s,
Kevin

I've actually updated my list since then. While I don't own 4x cradles (only have one) I've been playtesting it on cockatrice a lot and like this much better.

Spells - 11
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Personal Tutor
3 Scapegoat

Mana sources - 16
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
4 Lotus Petal
4 Land Grant
4 Gaea's Cradle
1 Elvish Spirit Guide

Cheeri0s - 30
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
2 Skyshroud Cutter

Win - 2
1 grapeshot
1 Last-Ditch Effort
1 Simian Spirit Guide

SB: 3 Signal Pest
SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 4 Wispmare
SB: 4 Xantid Swarm

My problem with burning tree emissary is that it costs two (which I would rather use on grapeshot) and that it gives me only RG which means I can't play a scapegoat or personal tutor off of it. If I had to, I'd play wild cantor in it's place.

[FTW]

What about Beck & Call?

Too much mana? The additional draw effects mean you basically never fizzle, though maybe slower to assemble.


4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Personal Tutor
2 Beck & Call

4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere

4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Manamorphose
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah

1 Scapegoat
1 Last-Ditch Effort
1 Grapeshot


SB:
4 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Ingot Chewer
3 Wispmare

[ReAnimator]

While battling insomnia (i seriously never win that match up) i was brainstorming this deck, i have no idea why.
It occurred to me that the new legend rule makes Mox Opal pretty powerful in here as extra petals. Has anyone else tried this? There are 24 artifacts in here if we include them, so it seems reasonable to try out. Adding all 5 colours is great, and better than red spirit guide.

Has anyone tried Cabal therapy as some disruption? is it just better to be all in?

I was thinking Goblin Bushwhacker as the non targeted win con might work in the main, but you probably need to be on Burning Tree Emissaries to get enough power to actually kill.

Here is where i was going to start:


4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Personal Tutor
4 Beck & Call

4 Wild Cantor
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
3 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Crimson Kobolds
3 Elvish Spirit Guide

1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Grapeshot

4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Manamorphose
4 City of Brass
3 Gaea's Cradle

SB:
4 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Ingot Chewer
3 Wispmare

[Stuhl]

I just found this deck a few days ago. Love the concept! I will build this one as it is somehow cheap and seems to make a lot of fun.

I already tried some goldfishing and got the point that often my draw series (before i get the second glimpse running) gets interrupted by non creature cards or mana creatures. I think grapeshot as the only win condition is enough and the places for pest and goblin bushwhacker can be filled up with additional zeros. I mean, in the first game if the combo gets interrupted it is hard and unprobable to recover. I think this deck goes all in.
In the the second game one could change to goblin and pest instead of grapeshot as the opponent might board trap or in general against storm,
which then is more or less useless.

Just my first thoughts about the structure of this deck.


Stuhl

Sent from my HUAWEI U9508 using Tapatalk

[fredteded]

Anyway to work in Boseiju to make glimpse un-counterable? Maybe Crop Rotation? Or just rely on Xantid Swarm?

I don't think that works since glimpse/beck have no colorless mana in their costs. Would only really work if there was a thalia/glowrider in play.

[nedleeds]

4 Ornithopter
4 Tinder Wall
4 Signal Pest
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Memnite
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Scapegoat
2 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Curse of Predation
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Wild Cantor
4 Elvish Spirit Guide


some number of lands ...


3 Gaea's Cradle
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
2 Savannah


So there are 8 beastmaster like effects now ... only the new one doesn't just blow vs. abrupt decay. If they tap out you get the counters on your men.

[Mr. Froggy]

A friend of mine built Cheeri0s for shits and giggles (ft. Multani's Presence and Chalice@0), it's quite entertaining.

[nedleeds]

Actually. With Craterhoof / Cradle and Mistcutter ... the Beastmaster effects aren't even really needed. I've goldfished a turn 2 kill in 4 of 5 games.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l4PrQLzqlnQ/Un0tmDTyKVI/AAAAAAAACO4/51AWEoxtCnc/s1152/glimpse.png

[nedleeds]

Also I self inflicted 40 lashes for ever thinking anything less than 4 cradle's was acceptable.

[magiclovr]

Also I self inflicted 40 lashes for ever thinking anything less than 4 cradle's was acceptable.

To be fair, when i first piloted this deck, the legend rule was quite different (but I still played 4 cradles). I then shifted to only bringing cradles from the board when I tried to transform into the overwhelm/weenie plan with sprout swarm.

But yes, with the new legend rule 4 cradles are indeed back in the deck.

[PirateKing]

A friend of mine who runs this included Noxious Revival in his list, cutting down on Becks and Tutors for room.
He used it to Glimpse -> Revival -> Kobold -> ReGlimpse -> all the Kobolds often enough to what would otherwise have been a fizzley attempt.
Also allowed him to use mana & Tinder Wall to double Grapeshot his single copy out of an otherwise weak Scapegoat combo.
Seems better than Beck as Glimpses 5-8, despite not being able to start rolling off one, once you find 1 Glimpse you're good to go.

Thoughts?

[nedleeds]

It's not great but also has niche utility vs. DRS or a Surgical on your Glimpse.

[HardBrain]

any decklist with those hoof?

[Stuhl]

That is my current decklist:

spells:

4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Gamble
4 Noxious Revival
4 Scapegoat
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Gitaxian Probe

mana:

4 Lotus Petal
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Land Grant
2 Wild Cantor

lands:

1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground


cheeri0s:

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
1 Skyshroud Cutter

wincon:

1 Grapeshot

sideboard:

4 Xantid Swarm
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Autumn's Veil
1 Signal Pest
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Beastmaster's Ascension
1 Forest



Noxious Revival is a very important card! You get a lot of flexibility in getting double Glimpse or reusing a Lotus Petal in later combo for Scapegoat. Also using Summoner's Pact again offers a lot of options!
It is essential against discard and countermagic! Opponent thoughtseizes you -> end of turn on top again! Opponent forces you -> next turn on top again! Never play this deck without Noxious Revival!!!

I am not running Cradles as I think it not worthy it as they are just very expensive. This is a budget deck imo.
The issues are not getting more mana but getting around counterspells in a proper way.
Running Xantids in sideboard is against regular countermagic. Autumn's Veil works against Trap and Flusterstorm (after you comboed out, only to pretect the wincon) as you force your opponent to use his counter. Ok, in worst cases he might have 2 Traps in hand...
Ingot Chewer tries to get around a 0-Chalice.
Signal Pest/Bushwhacker/BMA/Forest and maybe additional Xantids are there to change the Glimpse mechanic to a more Glimpse-independent tactic which plays around Meddling Mage/Canonist. I have not tested this one often but it might work. Ok, here a Cradle might be useful but is, on the other hand unfetchable.

I don't like playing a lot of lands as it disturbs the regular combo. Land Grants offer a nice library thinning. Having i.e. two Land Grants in the opening hand means -2 Lands in library for the next turn. These numbers might change games as until you get a double Glimpse running every non-cheeri0 card might kill you.



nedleeds


4 Ornithopter
4 Tinder Wall
4 Signal Pest
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Memnite
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Scapegoat
2 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Curse of Predation
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Wild Cantor
4 Elvish Spirit Guide


some number of lands ...


3 Gaea's Cradle
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
2 Savannah

I don't think playing 12 lands is a good idea... Ok, the deck is not build around storm but you only can play one land each turn. So you draw into dead cards, while i.e. Lotus Petal offers the ability to play Scapegoat that same turn. This is important as you don't want you opponent to get too much time (i.e. to play Abrupt Decay or even mass removal after boarding).
Play a maximum of 3 lands and an additional 3 fetchlands/Land Grants. Both have pros and cons. Concerning Land Grant: I don't like revealing my hand to the opponent but otherwise I can thin out my library faster and get a storm count.
Another advantage of a more combo based storm cheeri0 is that you can use Summoner's Pact in a most effective way:
Either you get an ESG for mana
or you get a Wild Cantor to convert a green mana and get additional Glimpse triggers
or you get Skyshroud Cutter if you have no more mana and are going to fizzle.

The deck is all in. You can't wait until your opponent plays Jace...
The creature based deck above is not as consistently as a storm based speed version imo. Your decklist already reminds me of an affinity-like deck.

When I played my deck this weekend a lot of people I played against said: "Can you win a game without Glimpse?" and I said: "No!=)" (ok, getting a catchy tune right now...)
It's all about Glimpse... tutoring Glimpse, revive Glimpse, double Glimpse...
As I said I tried to do a "not so dependent on Glimpse" boarding with BMA and so on, but I didn't really tested it. Might work, might not. At least it might hit your opponent unexpected.

[PirateKing]

Stuhl

I'm really digging your list, apart from turning the shock lands into duals and the rogue Forest into a Trop to bring in with LabMan.

Goldfishing I've found turn 1-2s being able to go Petal/ESG -> Glimpse -> Revival -> Cheeri0 -> (Pact into or in hand) ESG -> ReGlimpse -> 2 or 3 cheeri0s in hand -> Win

What I've found is that once I'm under two glimpses, especially when they are from the same card, I struggle to get into initial mana sources, since you have 9 IMS, and only 8 you can play in the same turn (2 lands). I'm thinking some number of Chrome Mox could find a home to throw over excess Glimpses, Kobolds, Pacts or Land Grants. Often the only thing holding me back from winning that turn is a Wild Cantor in hand to make :w: for Scapegoat, and no way to play it, despite having a Glimpse & a Land Grant in hand (After having already used a prior one to fetch and play a land).

I like Gamble as a tutor, especially post Scapegoat when we have 20 or so cards in hand, but I've found that once a critical mass of momentum is built, it is easier to just draw the whole deck rather than tutor for the Grapeshot.

Thoughts?

[nedleeds]

Temple Garden? Stomping Ground? No Cradles? That's just awful. There's a budget section.


4 Ornithopter
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Phyrexian Walker

4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Beck // Call

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith

4 Summoner's Pact
4 Crop Rotation

1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Vine Dryad
1 Wild Cantor
1 Burning-Tree Emissary

4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Gaea's Cradle
1 Tropical Island

SB: 4 Slaughter Pact
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 4 Angel of Despair
SB: 4 Nature's Claim


I'm goldfishing the shit out of this. Maybe putting Beastmaster Ascension or Curse of Predation in the sideboard is better. Abrupt Decay is tough to play around.

[Poron]

althought Noxious Revival seemt a good idea.

[Stuhl]

@nedleeds: Concerning your card choices you really could just play combo elves... I mean, there's no difference, except that elves is a T1 deck.

For me playing shock duals is like trolling you opponent. In general it doesn't hurt. Cradle can't be fetched (no deck thinning) and is a dead land for tutoring/scapegoating. Of course, if you want to BMA/Craterhoof Cradle is needed but imo that misses cheeri0s alias kobold storm and should be played with elves.

[nedleeds]

@nedleeds: Concerning your card choices you really could just play combo elves... I mean, there's no difference, except that elves is a T1 deck.

For me playing shock duals is like trolling you opponent. In general it doesn't hurt. Cradle can't be fetched (no deck thinning) and is a dead land for tutoring/scapegoating. Of course, if you want to BMA/Craterhoof Cradle is needed but imo that misses cheeri0s alias kobold storm and should be played with elves.

Cradle can't be be fetched? Maybe I cheated my way to 3-1-1 tonight with Crop Rotation. You are playing fetchlands? Over super lotus? Welcome to my ignore list.

Also I can play whatever I want. I own everything. Why are you in this thread if you just want to point out that Elves is better? No kidding.

[serenechaos]

I believe you are both too hard-set on the different builds. Cradles are extremely expensive, yes, but Cradle builds are very powerful and explosive, and offer a lot of recoverability.

On the flip side, Cradles are not necessary to the deck. Cradle builds do what they do, and do it well, but other builds which don't run it, also don't need the mana. Once the initial G or GG is made, W is generally easy to get to, and the rest of the deck is free. Maindeck BMA/Mistcutter variants want Cradles and CRs, but decks going all-in on the turn 1 Grapeshot can eschew it.

In particular, 4 Cradle/4 Crop gives a lot of dead draws for those types of decks, since Cradle can only be an IMS if you expend more resources first.

As for the lists I've seen, Mistcutter is fantastic tech for Cradle versions, but Street Wraith is kind of bad. I do not recommend ever running any Cheeri0s list without 4 Noxious Revival.

Stuhl, your list could possibly run one less Land Grant, if you feel like Cutter can be supported by 2 Grant/2 Lands. Other than that, the only problem I see with it is the Cutter/Pact/Grant triangle problem that I still haven't resolved with my lists.

[PirateKing]

My list ran 2 Chrome Mox and 3 Scapegoat, and I found that storm 10 might as well equal storm 70, in that once you reach that certain moment of inertia, you're good all the way through. So with that, I found the Land Grants use to be identical to a fetch or even the land I would have been going to get in the first place, the only upsides being +1 storm, which was totally irrelevant, and imprinting onto the Chrome Mox, which did happen but wasn't a deal breaker. The downside of revealing my hand on turn 1 of game 1 cause more hurt than was required for what I was trying to do. Had I just put down a Wooded Foothills and passed, letting me go off turn 2 with a live land drop mid combo and my opponent unaware of my intentions before it's too late is a advantage that should be maintained if possible. I would recommend exploring something like this:

Dudes:

4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
2 Shield Sphere
1 Skyshroud Cutter

Stuff:

4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Gamble
3 Noxious Revival
3 Scapegoat
4 Summoner's Pact
2 Gitaxian Probe

IMS:

4 Lotus Petal
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Chrome Mox
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
1 Taiga

Other Mana:
2 Tinder Wall
2 Wild Cantor

Storm 20:
1 Grapeshot

[SpeedOfDark]

I personally think you should just play 4 xantid swarm in all cherri0s lists maindeck.

This is one of the only combo decks where xantid swarm actually fits in the main game plan. Is it a tiny bit slower than 0 mana creatures? Yes, but I think the benefit should outweigh it significantly.

Also, no gaea's cradle seems wrong to me. Not saying you necessarily need a full set, but I think 0 is not optimal.

If you play crop rotation, horizon canopy instead of dual lands is also a nice touch.

[serenechaos]

Also, no gaea's cradle seems wrong to me. Not saying you necessarily need a full set, but I think 0 is not optimal.


It's not really strictly better than duals in the Turn 1-focused decks. It can't fix colors, isn't a very good IMS, and once you're going off, you only need another GG at most, and not at the same time; ESGs and Petals do this as well as Cradle without taking up land slots and being dead draws. It's good. Really, really good. But optimal is a very strong word.

I agree that Xantid Swarms can be strong maindeck. I might do 3 and bring the 4th in. I also toyed around with a black list running maindeck Therapies.

[stage]

It's not really strictly better than duals in the Turn 1-focused decks. It can't fix colors, isn't a very good IMS, and once you're going off, you only need another GG at most, and not at the same time; ESGs and Petals do this as well as Cradle without taking up land slots and being dead draws. It's good. Really, really good. But optimal is a very strong word.

I agree that Xantid Swarms can be strong maindeck. I might do 3 and bring the 4th in. I also toyed around with a black list running maindeck Therapies.

Maybe 2-3 cradle so they don't compete as heavily for IMS slots

Scapegoat seems awesome

[magiclovr]

In playing this quite a bit against current meta on MODO, I do like the transformative board. Basically cutting the T2 glimpse-needed storm kill into a T4-6 overload kill. Also, with so many graveyard strategies running around (dredge and TinFins/reanimator specifically) I'm finding that playing 2 MD Noxious Revival and 2 more in the SB is quite handy. Since there is a LOT of blue played right now, playing them in the MD with a couple Xantid Swarms is pretty decent.

I do bring in 3 cradles (so much better now with the new legend rules) and the 4 Beastmaster Ascensions from the SB if facing a very counter-heavy/disruptive deck. Combined with the Noxious Revivals the deck does get many second chances. If playing against combo, just race them!

When I started playing this Miscutter wasn't even on the drawing board yet so I'll throw one of them in the SB to see if that works.

[Wangtopia]

So, with Dragons of Tarkir, it looks like we got a new toy...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/wangtopia/impacttremors_zpsbqjaqwyi.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/wangtopia/media/impacttremors_zpsbqjaqwyi.jpg.html)


Impact Tremors
R1
Enchantment
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, Impact Tremors deals 1 damage to each opponent.

Thoughts?

[MaximumC]

So, with Dragons of Tarkir, it looks like we got a new toy...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/wangtopia/impacttremors_zpsbqjaqwyi.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/wangtopia/media/impacttremors_zpsbqjaqwyi.jpg.html)

Thoughts?

It's like an inverse grapeshot. In this particular deck, it seems worse than grape for two reasons: (1) Grapeshot cannot be countered by most countermagic; and (2) Grapeshot wins when you play it after churning for awhile, whereas this requires you to keep churning at least a little bit after you cast it. Like, you need to scapegoat to win after dropping it. That suggests you need 1R earlier in the combo, and that's not totally irrelevant.

My Krenko EDH deck, on the other hand, is grinning pretty widely at this.

[Wangtopia]

After mulling it over, I think it helps in the cases when you fizzle. Instead of having to hit another glimpse, a scapegoat will give you that little extra bump that you need to deal the fatal damage. I have absolutely no idea what could be cut though.

[Obould]

After mulling it over, I think it helps in the cases when you fizzle. Instead of having to hit another glimpse, a scapegoat will give you that little extra bump that you need to deal the fatal damage. I have absolutely no idea what could be cut though.

I think Goblin Bombardment is just better in any cases.

[Wangtopia]

I think Goblin Bombardment is just better in any cases.

How so? Using bombardment means the creatures are hitting the graveyard, thus preventing you from using Scapegoat to return and replay them.

[disc]

I think Goblin Bombardment is just better in any cases.

I don't think bombard is strictly better. Bombard is good because it doesn't care when you play it, just sac to get your damage at target whatever so it can hit things like Thals to keep the combo going vs D&Tax or burn the face, while Tremors has the benefit of being able to get around leylines and allows sgoat to still work at the cost of not being able to hit things other than face and needing to be in play before creatures. (They both get the bonus of not caring about one of the sphere effects compaired to grapeshot but I don't remember the name.)

I might toy with it maindeck but I can definitely see myself running it in the sideboard since I tend to face more than my fair share of leylines in games 2-3.

[magiclovr]

Just an update as I played a local 8-person legacy 4-round tourney the other day. Played at a neat new store in Albany, NY that appears to be quite Legacy friendly, Next Level Gaming. Of note, the list I played was with 4x Personal Tutor, 4x Land Grant, the only MD kill was a singleton Grapeshot, and the only lands were 3 Tropical Islands. With that said, here's a brief recap of what went down:

Match 1: My opponent (Max) played (I believe) UWr control. I never saw a miracle or counterbalance, so I can't say it was, but it didn't need to. The two games he played Meddling Mage and named Lotus Petal. Yeah.... next time I'll keep a Taiga in the deck so I can produce red mana!!! I didn't have outs to it and that was that. Of note, I went off G1 and had five Glimpse triggers in a row AND DIDN'T HIT A SINGLE ZERO DROP! First time for that one in a deck that's at least 50% zeros...

Match 2: My opponent was a nice guy (Forrest) who unfortunately was missing a couple cards from his dredge list so he borrowed a buddy's D&T deck to play. I went off game 1 on T2 and got some raised eyebrows. G2 he played first and landed a Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist before I could get critical mass. G3 I kept a Tutor hand and read that he would have some hate by T3, so I went for it on T2 even though I had three(!) double Glimpse draws where I was empty handed, so I had a almost-fizzle a few times. Managed to hit two zero's in one and then it was autopilot.

Match 3: My next oponent (Sam) was someone who I'd played casually before and knew she was on 12-post. I didn't have to worry about blue spells, but sideboard hate was going to be rough... G1 I went off pretty fast (T1) and it was the first time she'd seen Cheeri0s combo. She was less than amused but dove into her sideboard with zeal! G2 she was on the play and landed a T2 Trinisphere; I scooped immediately to save time. G3 actually went for a while as I mulled to 5 and had to wait for combo pieces. Sadly, the one I found was a Tutor, and I had to tap my Tropical Island into a Choke to get the Glimpse. I then had 3 turns where any mana piece would have probably won me the game, but she found her second G source before I got mine and Primevil Titan wrapped it up in a hurry.

Overall a fun time and I'll pilot it again next week with a few modifications.

[Blastoderm]

Just an update as I played a local 8-person legacy 4-round tourney the other day. Played at a neat new store in Albany, NY that appears to be quite Legacy friendly, Next Level Gaming. Of note, the list I played was with 4x Personal Tutor, 4x Land Grant, the only MD kill was a singleton Grapeshot, and the only lands were 3 Tropical Islands. With that said, here's a brief recap of what went down:

Match 1: My opponent (Max) played (I believe) UWr control. I never saw a miracle or counterbalance, so I can't say it was, but it didn't need to. The two games he played Meddling Mage and named Lotus Petal. Yeah.... next time I'll keep a Taiga in the deck so I can produce red mana!!! I didn't have outs to it and that was that. Of note, I went off G1 and had five Glimpse triggers in a row AND DIDN'T HIT A SINGLE ZERO DROP! First time for that one in a deck that's at least 50% zeros...

Match 2: My opponent was a nice guy (Forrest) who unfortunately was missing a couple cards from his dredge list so he borrowed a buddy's D&T deck to play. I went off game 1 on T2 and got some raised eyebrows. G2 he played first and landed a Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist before I could get critical mass. G3 I kept a Tutor hand and read that he would have some hate by T3, so I went for it on T2 even though I had three(!) double Glimpse draws where I was empty handed, so I had a almost-fizzle a few times. Managed to hit two zero's in one and then it was autopilot.

Match 3: My next oponent (Sam) was someone who I'd played casually before and knew she was on 12-post. I didn't have to worry about blue spells, but sideboard hate was going to be rough... G1 I went off pretty fast (T1) and it was the first time she'd seen Cheeri0s combo. She was less than amused but dove into her sideboard with zeal! G2 she was on the play and landed a T2 Trinisphere; I scooped immediately to save time. G3 actually went for a while as I mulled to 5 and had to wait for combo pieces. Sadly, the one I found was a Tutor, and I had to tap my Tropical Island into a Choke to get the Glimpse. I then had 3 turns where any mana piece would have probably won me the game, but she found her second G source before I got mine and Primevil Titan wrapped it up in a hurry.

Overall a fun time and I'll pilot it again next week with a few modifications.

Cool stuff! Wasn't it four rounds? How are you finding the consistency of this deck compared to something like Belcher? (which is extremely consistent)

I've gone the more aggro (affinity style) route:

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Gaea's Cradle

11 Kobolds
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Signal pest

4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Beck//Call

3 Beastmaster Ascension
3 Curse of Predation

SB:

1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Curse of Predation
1 Goblin Bombardment
4 Wispmare
4 Ignot Chewer
4 Xantid Swarm

[nedleeds]

Tournament Report

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11214261_10153183269179215_37839887603071919_n.jpg?oh=20989b560ce46e40f330afe1f3cdc343&oe=5651ED5E

[P-E]

Go go go always interested in Pimped Cheerios report ^^ (and pics)

[Blastoderm]

Tournament Report

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11214261_10153183269179215_37839887603071919_n.jpg?oh=20989b560ce46e40f330afe1f3cdc343&oe=5651ED5E

Sick dude. What's your list and sb?

[nedleeds]

Go go go always interested in Pimped Cheerios report ^^ (and pics)

http://www.twitch.tv/tuskvision/b/678342894?t=1h19m16s

LOL, power goes out just as I am about to get Hydra Hoof ...

[P-E]

Hum tempting !! I should play this on saturday at my local store ahah

Same list as previous page?

[nedleeds]

No. I cut all the lands except 4 Cradle's (Arbor I guess). Added Krosan Wayfarer to make Cradle 2-4 not a brick while going off. Ditched Tinder Wall also, I never wanted a +1 red. So just Wild Cantor, Vine Dryad, Krosan Wayfarer, Hydraball, Dryad Arbor and Hoof as one off's. Even Arbor was underwhelming, might be better off as a Tropical to fuel Beck.

Edit: Obviously ditched Land Grant with no Trop.

[Darklingske]

Care to share your latest list Nedleeds?

[Lemon]

I've been jamming this version of the deck as my intro into legacy. At one LGS we're allowed proxies, so I've included the list I play there since it's mostly just direct upgrades from the modern cards I'm currently running.

1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Beck // Call
3 Force of Will
2 Grapeshot
2 Pact of Negation
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Artificer's Assistant
3 Noxious Revival
4 Retract
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Memnite
4 Shield Sphere
4 Ornithopter
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall

SB 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB 2 Flusterstorm
SB 3 Veil of Summer
SB 1 Gut Shot
SB 2 Hurkyl's Recall
SB 2 Naturalize
SB 1 Island
SB 1 Forest
SB 1 Noxious Revival

I've mostly been having problems with cards like Chalice of the Void, Wasteland, and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Has anyone come up with some good ways to combat these cards?

[Lemon]

Proxy Legacy Night Report
Decklist:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tree of Tales
2 Personal Tutor
4 Force of Will
1 Grapeshot
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Artificer's Assistant
1 Noxious Revival
4 Retract
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Memnite
4 Shield Sphere
4 Ornithopter
4 Frogmite
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall

2 SB Tormod's Crypt
2 SB Flusterstorm
2 SB Veil of Summer
1 SB Artificer's Assistant
1 SB Hurkyl's Recall
2 SB Return to Nature
1 SB Island
1 SB Forest
3 SB Cranial Plating


Round 1: Naya Cheerios 2-0
This player was just getting back into magic, so proxy night was a great call for him. His deck choice however not so much. He went for a Naya Cheerios list with 2 grapeshot \ 1 Bushwhacker as wincons and no backup Glimpse of Nature. He was however running some spicy Silence, which was really good against me. Since he proxied it up the day of, he hadn't gotten any goldfish games in and wasn't very good at piloting the deck. Both of his losses were because he didn't silence me on my combo turn. We played a bunch after since we still had 40ish min on the clock, and I walked him through lines and new cards he could add. Good player, if a bit rusty, but his brew was about 2 months behind mine.

Round 2: Maverick 2-1
Game 1 I comboed off turn 1 on the play and he died with no cards in play. I figured he was going to bring in storm hate, so I boarded in Cranial Plating as an alternative win con. Game 2 I jumped the gun and comboed on turn 2 only to fizzle with 3 creatures on board. I never found a second glimpse of nature and died to beats. Game 3 I got to keep my first 7 and used Personal Tutor to get a Glimpse and he died with 5 permanents in play. These games felt like I was playing more against myself than against an opponent. The only card in his deck that I cared about was Thalia, so as long as he didn't have one I could go off.

Round 3: Red Prison 2-1
I won the die roll and proceeded to not let him draw game 1. Game 2 however he landed a chalice of the void on 0 and went aggro to beat me down before I could find an answer. Game 3 was a lot closer where I had to use a Hurkyls Recall to bounce his chalice of the void and then noxious revival Hurkyls to go off. I got super lucky going off and was able to grapeshot for 28 for the win.

Overall Score: 3-0

Changes I made since last tournament:
-2 Beck +2 Personal Tutor
-1 Fetch +1 Tropical Island

I was unimpressed with Personal Tutor. It never felt particularly bad to draw, but I never drew it and was happy it wasn't a Beck, especially because Grapeshot, Tutor, and Glimpse are it's only targets. I think the answer here is to keep Beck on the basis of diversity. Since Beck has such a high CMC, it can combo through Chalice of the Void and also allows us to play through a Surgical Extraction. I was a fan of the 4th Tropical Island, and am sad that I now need 4 instead of 3. Breeding Pool will do for now though.

Post event changes:
-1 SB Artificer's Assistant +1 SB Chain of Vapor
-1 Tree of Tales +1 Seat of the Synod

[Weapon X]

Force of vigor is probably what you want.

[Lemon]

Force of vigor is probably what you want.

I'm a little worried my green count isn't high enough to support it, but I'll give it a go next week.

[FTW]

Another answer to Chalice @ 0 or Counterbalance is Multani's Presence. It's a Glimpse alternative where you don't need to resolve the cards to keep drawing, but it works better in the Kobolds build than the 4 Mox Opal build that relies on bouncing Opals for mana generation.