[Deck] Goblin Sligh

[troopatroop]

Who said Legacy is devoid of viable budget decks? :D


Back when the Legacy banned/restricted list was first introduced, Goblin Sligh was one of the first decks to distinguish itself as a contender in the new format. Todays format is also fresh in that Mystical Tutor and Survival are gone. With everyone trying to fly under the radar, what better time to bust out old tech? With Counterbalance on the supposed decline, and tribal decks / combo on the uprise, building a faster Goblin deck seemed logical. This involved removing great slower cards, like Aether Vial, Goblin Matron, and Goblin Ringleader. This is what I arrived at.

updated list as of 4/21/11

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Grenade
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

20 Mountain



Goblin Grenade is a card that is fairly understated, and the #1 reason to play Goblin Sligh. I remember playing with the card back in the day, and I thought it was bad because of the card disadvantage, but it won so many games! I was right to an extent, as it's only good when you're winning, but it's also exceptional at winning the game. 2 Grenades, Bolt, Fireblast is 17 damage! This deck can deal the early creature damage, keep up in the midgame, and reach them out very well.

Goblin Sligh has been around for ages, and there are some downsides to playing it over Vial Goblins. You're worse against dedicated control decks, such as Counterbalance and Landstill. As long as Lightning Bolt is good against the deck you're playing however, Goblin Sligh has a solid approach to winning the game. Metagames full of Merfolk and Goblins are good, because they can't really play defense against you for long. Goblin Guide can put the hurt on and Lightning Bolt lets Goblin Lackey connect. The deck can deal 20 quickly almost every single time, and I've enjoyed playing it against newer Legacy players! The deck is really consistent, budget friendly, and strong against some of the upper tier.

At least half the room isn't boarding Chill anymore! :D

Thoughts or Comments?

[Angelfire]

I would run another 1 drop such as Tattermunge Maniac and also get Chain Lightning in your list. I have run Goblin Sligh on MWS with great success before. I was running it when Counterbalance was very popular so I ran 3x Vexing Shusher main. Being able to protect spells like Grenade, Price and Fireblast from counter is extremely powerful.

I also feel like a business spell is stronger than Wasteland in this deck.

[troopatroop]

I replaced it with Chrome Mox on second look. It's alot less expensive, and makes the deck more explosive imo.

I hadn't realized Tattermunge Maniac was a Goblin! Could you suggest a list?

[Slag]

I think goblin bushwhacker would go well in goblin sligh. It can tack on an extra 2-5 damage in the early turns, or create an alpha stike out of nowhere.

[GGoober]

I think Instigator is a little too slow for Goblin Sligh. Turn 2 play it, turn 3 swing for 4. I'd replace them with more Chieftains. I think the card you're looking for may also be Reckless Abandon.

My friends and I tested Chrome Mox to some extent in regular Goblins and the general consensus it was not worth the speed sacrificing consistency and cards. If you're opting the slight route, you probably need to maintain more business spells than pitch them off.

[Hanni]

There are fundamental differences between Vial Goblins and Sligh, and if you're going to cut one of the most powerful cards in the format (Aether Vial), you need to compensate.

SCG is never getting hardcasted, and if you reach the point where it's possible to, you probably lost that match. Keeping SCG in just because it's a powerful play off of a Lackey trigger isn't worth it.

To the maindeck list you posted, I'd go:

-3 Warren Instigator
-3 Siege-Gang Commander
-3 Gempalm Incinerator
-3 Chrome Mox

+2 Goblin Chieftan
+4 Mogg War Marshal
+4 Chain Lightning
+1 Fireblast
+1 Mountain

[troopatroop]

I think that's a really solid maindeck change, and I fully agree with you. What do you think of Tattermunge Hanni?

[klaus]

I have to second Hanni on the addition of Warmarshall - he simply is too cute with grenade.
Not sure about the other suggestions though. Cutting SGC for good seems odd for instance..
Anyway, upping the Chieftain count should be reasonable I guess
-
I have to say, I don't like those Moxen either - on paper that is. They might pull their weight in actual play, but on paper they do look subpar to 2 Mountains and another Burnspell. Bare in mind that upping the mountain count will increase the chance to cast 2 Fireblasts when needed.

[Angelfire]

My List from MWS (from memory)

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Goblin Chieftain

4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Searing Blaze
4 Goblin Grenade
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

4 Fetches
14 Mountain

3 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Vexing Shusher
3 Shattering Spree
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Other cards

[Sims]

My gut still says to see if you can find room for Flunkies..... we played him in 04 and I still play him in pauper.. but that might be going a bit too cute. MWM is likely the better card in the end.

[Ziveeman]

What about Kuldotha Rebirth? Max out on the Chrome Moxes and add Great Furnace. Works really well with Bushwhacker and Chieftain.

[neoryujin]

Kuldotha Rebirth is a blast in the current Standard Kuldotha Red / Goblin deck. But I agree with a couple posts before, that Chrome Mox is wasting a spell, and probably not worth it. That leaves only 4 Great Furnaces for fueling Kuldotha Rebirth, that's too few. Perhaps Mox Diamond ?

[trivial_matters]

Price of Progress should find its way into the deck, at least in the sideboard.

[ScatmanX]

My build that I've been wanting to try in this meta is:

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Instigator
3 Goblin Bushwacker
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Chieftain

3 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Goblin Grenade
3 Fireblast

20 Mountain

4 Price of Progress
4 Shattering Spree
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Red Elemental Blast

Is really hard to lose to agroo with this.

[troopatroop]

My gut still says to see if you can find room for Flunkies..... we played him in 04 and I still play him in pauper.. but that might be going a bit too cute. MWM is likely the better card in the end.

I honestly thought about it. I still love Mogg Flunkies, but there might just be better options today.

I don't think Vexing Shusher needs to be mained anymore, although its a powerful SB card. Same with Price of Progress.

Kuldotha Rebirth asks your deck to be warped to support it, and doesn't do anything powerful to Legacy standards.

[(nameless one)]

What about Goblin Wardriver? It's essentially a lord but cheaper than Goblin Chieftain. Yes, it has no haste and it's not a static pump but having it earlier makes up for it. And like Bushwacker, it can additional 2-5 damage.

[Hanni]

Honestly, I'd be looking at Goblin Wardriver over Goblin Warchief, not Goblin Chieftan. Since this is a Sligh deck, by the time Warchief comes down, the reduction in cost for other Goblins is much less relevant. Of course, putting a Warchief into play off a Lackey trigger is awesome, but Goblin Chieftan significantly speeds up this decks clock much faster than Goblin Warchief does. At any rate, Goblin Wardriver looks alot more promising than Goblin Bushwhacker.

[troopatroop]

Wardriver is sick, I didn't know he existed. War Marshal is alot better than I gave it credit for, especially with Goblin Grenade.

4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Chieftain

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Fireblast

20 Mountain


Seems pretty brutal. I can't think of a better budget deck for the current metagame, outside of T.E.S.

[Hanni]

Looks like a solid deck you've got there. I wouldn't consider TES a budget deck, though...

[perm]

For any list that runs goblin chieftain, there is simply no reason not to run Mogg war marshal. Also I am having trouble understanding the advantages over vial besides the virtual ca

[Hanni]

Sligh is a fundamentally different deck concept than Vial Goblins. I'd be asking what advantages that this deck has over Cat Sligh before asking what advantages this has over Vial Goblins. Or what advantages this has over Fast Zoo, for that matter.

For starters, I can say that this deck has a much stronger manabase than both Cat Sligh and Zoo. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

[troopatroop]

Hanni is right, Cat Sligh and Fast Zoo both seem to outclass this deck, although it's hard to say. This deck has much more synergy between all its creatures, it runs more of them, and has suprise factor in the form of Goblin Grenade. Swarming Zoo or Bant doesn't seem like it would be hard to do, especially if they walk into Price of Progress, or allow you to remove their creatures with Burn.

Vial is card disadvantage, and without clunky Matrons and Ringleaders it would be far too slow to be useful. Doesn't work in Sligh, basically.

And as Hanni said, being immune to Stifle and Wasteland is always a plus.

[troopatroop]

Double Post, for content and irony! I was just citing immunity to wasteland and stifle, but I've been exploring the white splash.

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Guide
3 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Chieftain

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
3 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
3 Path to Exile

2 Plateau
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
10 Mountain

Theoretical SB
2 Price of Progress
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Runeflare Trap
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Absolute Law
1 Tormod's Crypt
Armageddon
Pyrokinesis
Sulfuric Vortex

Path to exile is good against Tarmogoyf/ Knight of the Reliquary decks, which seem to make up alot of Legacy. Goblin Grenade can often kill those creatures as well, but you'd rather be throwing that goblin at their life total. Burning them out is plan A, so STP is basically out of the question.

I went -1 Wardriver, -1 Chain Lightning, -1 Fireblast for the 3 Paths. Obviously they're not good against some decks, but you can always board them out. Speaking of sideboards, White provides alot actually. I was considering Armageddon, because it's totally GG against Control and High Tide, which is really cool. Enlightened Tutor is the single best card in Legacy at creating value out of quality SB cards. Absolute Law is some good against Pyroclasm and Firespout, obviously doesn't come in against most decks, but blanking Firespout is worth it imo. Cannonist and Crypt for Storm and Graveyard strategies. Runeflare trap is insane against Brainstorm/Standstill/Tide decks, Storm often walks right into it as well.

I'm considering the merits of the other splash colors, but white seems to have me atm. Maybe I'll play Path's in the board. Does Green have more to offer than White? I can't think of anything past Tin-Street Hooligan and Krosan Grip, but that doesn't really sell me. Any cases?

[evanmartyr]

It occurs to me that "Sligh" kind of exists in the wacky purgatory between vial aggro and burn. Your creatures need to be slightly more durable than Burn's, and slightly cheaper than Vial aggro's, since your plan is to ride the first 2-3 dudes you drop to victory on a wave of removal and supplemental burn. Basically, I'd say anything you play that has an actual cost of 2 mana or more you're going to need a LOT of rationalizing to retain in the list.

A quick gander at the last few 5ks gives you a pretty good idea of what you can expect: combo, some aggro (zoo, some merfolk), and landstill variants. This bodes well for a slight build if it stays this way, since you have a better game against combo decks that rely on their life total than Zoo, you've got a more solid mana base than Zoo (beating up on Landstill becomes easier), and your sideboard options against anything slow-ish and blue are phenomenal. But, if people catch on and start playing CounterTop again, you may have a harder time of it. Fighting through a Counterbalance @ 1 is tricky, and can usually stall you long enough for them to have enough mana to develop their game plan while keeping you off 1 and 2cc spells.

But I think my main point was play some 1cc creatures, play 2cc creatures that either immediately impact the game OR are synergistic to put you over the top on turn 3, and don't play creatures after that, as that's when other decks start reliably answering your threats. At that point, you need to have either won already or pushed them over the "can be burnt out" threshold. Really, you're playing Goblin Grenade, so this is kind of an all-or-nothing deck anyway, might as well run crap like Price of Progress or more targeted burn to maximize your chances of a blowout in the early turns.

[troopatroop]

The best one drops this deck has are definitely Lackey and Guide. You're making me consider Tattermunge Maniac again for being 1cc. Maybe a couple? Goblin Wardriver has been underperforming in some of my draws, and it makes me wonder if he's too slow. Counterbalance on the decline is something this deck needs to see, and the meta does seem to be shifting that way. Price of Progress main is probably a safe call.

[Jabari]

Theoretical SB
2 Price of Progress
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Runeflare Trap
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Absolute Law
1 Tormod's Crypt
Armageddon
Pyrokinesis
Sulfuric Vortex
[/cards]

You should probably re-read Absolute Law, it doesn't seem too optimal in a red deck.

[troopatroop]

So, Mental Misstep was just spoiled, and it's an amazing card for aggro decks.

4 Goblin Lackey
3 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Grenade
2 Fireblast
4 Mental Misstep

3 Taiga
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
11 Mountain

sb
2 Choke
3 Price of Progress
2 Krosan Grip
3 Searing Blaze
4 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Ancient Grudge


Mountain -> Lackey -> Go just got scarier. Free countermagic in Goblin Sligh is fairly ridiculous. Protecting Lackey from StP and Bolt for 0cc is 0_0

I cut Mogg War Marshal from my deck for Tattermunge Maniac, because 2cc isn't fast enough. You need a Wardiver, Piledriver, or Chieftain to get any sort of value out of Marshal, which is always going to be slow, and Tattermunge does well with those cards himself. Dropping this guy made my deck much faster, and I am killing turn 3 more often.

Green is for Choke, Grip, and Hooligan. Counterbalance and Chalice are this deck's worst fears, and it should pay to board for those strategies.

[boneclub24]

Two things I came here to say:
1) The main reason to run this over the other Sligh options is Goblin Grenade. The Lords aren't a bad reason, either.
2) Have you guys tried Ember Hauler yet?

[ScatmanX]

Goblin Bushwhacker is amazing here. Please try him out.

[kinda]

Hm, could u play mogg maniac+fire convenant in here? (yes joke)

[Litorers]

Have you considered returning to mono-color and using contested warzone? It doesn't seem like you're going to be pinged by creatures particularly often, and the power boost is huge.

[perm]

If you're running 4 Goblin Chieftain and 4 Goblin Wardriver without 4 Mogg War Marshal, you are doing something very wrong

[Skeggi]

Is Contested War Zone worth testing in this deck?

[perm]

Is Contested War Zone worth testing in this deck?

having to adjust your open attackers/blockers for the fear of -2 tempo seems pretty bad... I dunno, definitely try it

[Iare]

I kind of like the idea of playing an all in red deck with the goal of winning ASAP. It really fits my play style perfectly and since I am a sucker collecting all the red legacy playables I have most the cards. I am thinking of going with something like this:


Creatures -20
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Goblin Bushwacker
4 Goblin Piledriver

Stuff- 21
4 Chrome mox
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Mental Misstep
3 Fireblast
2 Final Fortune

Lands- 19
4 Taiga
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Barbarian ring
6 Mountain

sb
4 Red elemental blast
4 Krosan Grip
4 Tormod's crypt
3x Mindbreak trap

Going to proxy it up and take it for a spin :)

[troopatroop]

Contested War Zone is interesting! I hadn't seen the card before, it could be good. Wardriver doesn't like it, however.

Mogg War Marshal is bad! I'm telling you from experience, you do not want to be casting this card in Legacy anymore. You do not need to run it alongside Chieftain and Wardriver, because it's only good with them and it's terribad on its own. Goblins can play it because of Goblin Warchief, but this deck doesn't want that card, so you'll always be paying 2 mana for it. Turn 2 War-Marshal? Trust me, it's not good.

Goblin Bushwacker is also MEH. Turn 3 he's only good with Maniac/Cohort and a Wardriver in play. That's not enough applications early in the game, where this deck wants to be winning. Goblin Cohort also seems risky. Guide already has haste, and Lackey gives you 12 1 drops

Chrome Mox was bad for me. The card disadvantage is just not good for this deck. Mountains are fine.

[evanmartyr]

Signal Pest? A faster Wardriver, with the added bonus of being sacrifice-able to Kuldotha Rebirth and Shrapnel Blast, should you choose to play it.

[troopatroop]

Meh. It does 0 damage on it's own, and you're investing a card in that? I wouldn't play it.

[Nameless Two]

Playing artifacts does open up kuldotha rebirth and maybe shraphnel blast?. But I guess we'd need to start adding things like Jitte, artifact lands and the like then... Probably not worth it.

Tuktuk is too slow I guess although he is awesome grenade fodder...

How about 2 goblin lookouts?

[Prkchpsndwiches]

Built this deck based off of reading this thread. Definitely very rough. Haven't built it yet. Not sure about some card selections, i.e. Memnite and Immolating Souleater. I like Memnite because he helps ramp up metalcraft easily for Mox Opal and Galvanic Blast and provides one power. I also feel that if I get a Immolating Souleater out early I can deal some good damage with him and clear away blockers with my burn if needed. Was mostly looking for creatures that can be put out early, swarm with Goblin Bushwhacker and can be sac'd by both Reckless Abandon and Shrapnel Blast (so artifact creatures). Was basically trying to fit the most damage efficient spells in here that I could. Still need a SB too. Definitely packing 2 more Price of Progress. It is Legacy after all, LOL. Also thought about Smash to Smithereens. Null will be an issue for me; Shutting off 7 cards in my mana base. As I test I'll see if I can cut the Great Furnaces down to 3.

4 Perilous Myr
4 Immolating Souleater
4 Memnite
4 Goblin Bushwacker

4 Chain Lightning
4 Reckless Abandon
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast


13 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
3 Mox Opal

SB:
2 Price of Progress
? Smash to Smithereens

EDIT: 6/6/11 May try Porcelain Legionaire instead of Immolating Souleater.

[Climax]

What about a 2/2 Split between Tattermunge Maniac and Goblin Cadets? Each has its own advantages/disadvantages.

[Prkchpsndwiches]

Built this deck based off of reading this thread. Definitely very rough. Haven't built it yet. Not sure about some card selections, i.e. Memnite and Immolating Souleater. I like Memnite because he helps ramp up metalcraft easily for Mox Opal and Galvanic Blast and provides one power. I also feel that if I get a Immolating Souleater out early I can deal some good damage with him and clear away blockers with my burn if needed. Was mostly looking for creatures that can be put out early, swarm with Goblin Bushwhacker and can be sac'd by both Reckless Abandon and Shrapnel Blast (so artifact creatures). Was basically trying to fit the most damage efficient spells in here that I could. Still need a SB too. Definitely packing 2 more Price of Progress. It is Legacy after all, LOL. Also thought about Smash to Smithereens. Null will be an issue for me; Shutting off 7 cards in my mana base. As I test I'll see if I can cut the Great Furnaces down to 3.

4 Perilous Myr
4 Immolating Souleater
4 Memnite
4 Goblin Bushwacker

4 Chain Lightning
4 Reckless Abandon
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast


13 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
3 Mox Opal

SB:
2 Price of Progress
? Smash to Smithereens

EDIT: 6/6/11 May try Porcelain Legionaire instead of Immolating Souleater.

Played this versus Hive Mind. Souleater was golden when it hit the board. It was a must counter card for them. The games I lost were usually a turn short from winning. My opponent mentioned that it looked like I was trying to play two decks (Affinity and Burn). Onlookers felt that getting two-for-one'd with a Shrapnel Blast or Reckless Abandon was too risky. Still a fun deck. Going to keep tweaking it.

[troopatroop]

What about a 2/2 Split between Tattermunge Maniac and Goblin Cadets? Each has its own advantages/disadvantages.

These two cards are not the same, Tattermunge is just better. Goblin Cadets can't attack into anything.

Cadets are just a huge headache, and I'm never upset that I have to attack. This deck generally wants to do that.


Played this versus Hive Mind. Souleater was golden when it hit the board. It was a must counter card for them. The games I lost were usually a turn short from winning. My opponent mentioned that it looked like I was trying to play two decks (Affinity and Burn). Onlookers felt that getting two-for-one'd with a Shrapnel Blast or Reckless Abandon was too risky. Still a fun deck. Going to keep tweaking it.

Or you could just take their advice, and not play a bastardized decklist. That deck dumps its hand as fast as it can, so Hive Mind should actually be one of its good matchups. Decks that can punish you for overextending are licking their chops, because Memnite isn't scary on its own, and you have no choice but to run everything out. I would contest that straight Burn and Affinity are better decks than that, and it's not really that close.

Also, Immolating Souleater, Perilous Myr, and Memnite are each AWFUL individually. 2cc for 1/1's in Legacy is a joke. They're also NOT GOBLINS.

Goblin Bushwhacker does not make your deck Goblin Sligh. ANT is a much better all-in deck, and it kills at least 2-3 turns faster.

[Grollub]

Also, Immolating Souleater, Perilous Myr, and Memnite are each AWFUL individually. 2cc for 1/1's in Legacy is a joke. They're also NOT GOBLINS.
I wouldn't be too fast on judging the Souleater as awful. The mere fact it can swing for 10 on turn three is worth exploring - giving Sligh the ability to actually, with relative ease, race combo (or force a pre-mature gambit at going off) is something to respect.

[Climax]

These two cards are not the same, Tattermunge is just better. Goblin Cadets can't attack into anything.

Cadets are just a huge headache, and I'm never upset that I have to attack. This deck generally wants to do that.


But the Cadets also havent to attack in an opposing Goyf.

[troopatroop]

I wouldn't be too fast on judging the Souleater as awful. The mere fact it can swing for 10 on turn three is worth exploring - giving Sligh the ability to actually, with relative ease, race combo (or force a pre-mature gambit at going off) is something to respect.

I see that you can overextend into removal with it. I see that it's a terrible blocker. You talk about it's use against combo, but what about real decks, with answers and stuff? It's just not good enough for legacy at 2cc, where Tarmogoyf is a 4/5 for no effort. Zoo laughs at this card, Control too. You have no way of knowing if you should lose more life, and he's only good when you're ahead!

Why would you play this card in your Constructed Legacy Deck? Combo is more afraid of Lackey.


But the Cadets also havent to attack in an opposing Goyf.

You still have the option of using Goblin Grenade with it, or in the case of a 4/5 burning it postcombat. You might get other creatures through in the process, and be closer to burning them to death. This deck really doesn't want to slow down for anything, so holding Goblin Cadets back shouldn't be attractive to you! I'd rather 2 for 1 and keep swinging.

First, it's important to note that Goblin Cadets also doesn't do anything in that situation either. Yes, I guess you can hold it back for a big swing turn, but not attacking is the spot this deck doesn't want to be in. I suggested a white splash build for Path, because Tarmogoyf and Knight are that annoying for this deck. You're right that needing to attack into a big guy sucks. You have burn in your deck, deal.

Now, Think of all the other situations where Goblin Cadets are worse. Tattermunge can at least BE expendible, attack into creatures for Dmg, and sometimes result in a trade. ANY blocker is a huge problem for Goblin Cadets, and you're giving the opponent a chance to disrupt you inately! He's a reasonable choice, but it seems much worse against Merfolk if you're burn light, and Tattermunge is just as fast.

Running 2 and 2 means you're hoping for the right one in the right situations, but variance doesn't happen that way. If Tattermunge is superior, and even only by a small margin, it deserves the full number. I think my latest list only plays 3 of them. Goblin Cadets against creature decks? Yuck

[Qweerios]

What about using Infiltration Lens? It makes you want to swing even more when your opponent begins to stabilize with creatures. Perhaps two copies mainboard would be worth a shot? Decks that won't block any of your creatures will probably meet a swift death. Also, how about using Mutavault over something like Wasteland? It is an added goblin in the form of a land drop, plays through Standstill, benefits from lord effects, and can act as food for grenade.

[Mr. Safety]

Is Contested War Zone worth testing in this deck?

I've tested the deck with both War Zone and Teetering Peaks...both are sub-par to a Wasteland-proof mana base. The deck wants dudes with synergy in order to pile on the speed, the more dudes, the better. Finish with burn. Teetering Peaks is somewhat better, simply because even if it gets wasted, it has done it's job as a free pump spell. I'm still testing out 3.

Goblin Bushwhacker, btw, is probably THE BEST card to play if you're using Mogg War Marshal (which I do.) Two dudes for 1 card is awesome, and I've even gone to the point of using Dragon Fodder for the same reason.

I've played roughly 25-30 games with this, and so far it's been surprising how GOOD cards like Wardriver and Grenade are. Fireblast, IMHO, is a definate 3-4 of in the deck. With Grenade and Fireblast, you can potentially put out 9 damage outside of combat with only 1 mana. If your 1-drops/Bolts draw out Mental Missteps, you can usually power through well enough.

My current list:

4x Goblin Guide
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Dragon Fodder
4x Goblin Wardriver
4x Goblin Chieftain
3x Fireblast
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Lightning Bolt
18x Mountain
3x Teetering Peaks


Sideboard

3x Sulfuric Vortex
3x Shattering Spree
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Vexing Shusher
3x Pyrostatic Pillar


I think that Goblin Piledriver is probably neccessary in a setup like this, due to the token generators. I've also toyed around with Shared Animosity, but I think that needs Goblin Chieftain in order to make sure haste is more prevalent. It's a pseudo-lord that is mildly resistant to removal and stacks big similar to Goblin Piledriver.

Honestly, I have Tattermunge Maniac on my mind for a 1-drop...because of the extra damage it can put up early. Less explosive than Lackey, but more consistent. Probably not smart, I'm leaving Lackey for now.

Mogg Fanatic...I wish it were better. I've tested it out in Lackey's spot, and it's nice to be able to deal with early Bobs and mana-dorks...but if you see him that way, he's just a bad Lightning Bolt.

Shattering Spree could concievably be Meltdown or Smash to Smithereens, but so far so good. Potential for Pyrokinesis in the sideboard as well.

Hope to hear more discussion, as this is a fun deck, if not tier 1.

[Grollub]

Not playing 4 Wastelands just look so wrong, the deck is strongest in the early game and thus it'd seem logical you'd want to prolong it as long as possible. Having the random 2 Wasteland GG, isn't bad either. Losing a land drop shouldn't be terrible as the deck has plenty of dudes that cheat in other dudes.

I haven't tried the pure goblin Goblin Sligh (that sounded funny) build, so I could be wrong - but I know in traditional (Lackey or Regular) Sligh, I'd never leave home without 4 Wastelands.

Dragon Fodder? Thoughts on it? To me it looks sort of underwhelming.

[ScatmanX]

@Mister Safety:
like your list.
If you haven't, please try Searing Blaze. It's just awesome. Having +4 removal and +4 burn cards, its great.

[troopatroop]

My thoughts exactly on Dragon Fodder. Unplayable dude, what are you smoking...

I feel the same way about Mogg War Marshal! We don't play Warchief, and while I see that you're trying to maximize your value out of Wardriver/Bushwhacker and especially Chieftain, these 2mana 2 1/1 goblin spells are too slow in most cases. Teetering Peeks as well, im sorry, coming into play tapped ruins it. It's not the worst card to be playing, but in 2 land hands it just really hurts your speed. Storm Combo bats their eyes at these cards. Wasteland gives you a chance against them too, play it. I understand the card is $60 now, and that's ridiculous, but the card is that good.

Goblin Piledriver IS necessary. He's a boon for Goblins, don't leave home without 4.

[Octopusman]

Edit: Realized my comment was lousy.

No vandal's or tinkerer in the board?

[Richard Cheese]

I suggested a white splash build for Path, because Tarmogoyf and Knight are that annoying for this deck.

Might want to look at Flash of Defiance in the board. I know it seems janky, but it's cost is well suited for the deck, has flashback so each one you board in has the potential to get you two unanswered swings, and basically effects every fatty in the format besides Tombstalker, Emrakul and Batterskull.

[Greenpoe]

Pyrokinesis is pretty amazing in the SB for regular Goblins, so why not for Sligh? Free burn/removal and clearing the way for your guys is always nice.

[ScatmanX]

Pyrokinesis is pretty amazing in the SB for regular Goblins, so why not for Sligh? Free burn/removal and clearing the way for your guys is always nice.
Regular goblins can handle well the card disadvantage, his deck can't.
Regular goblins don't usually have low cc fast removal, this deck has tons.

[Pinoy Goblin]

I think wardriver is slow as hell without chieftain/bushwacker for a @@ red drop might as well play ember hauler that is a 2/2 body that has burn. Also include 3 smoldering spires so that lackey may connect if ever opponent has a lone blocker.

[troopatroop]

I think wardriver is slow as hell without chieftain/bushwacker for a @@ red drop might as well play ember hauler that is a 2/2 body that has burn. Also include 3 smoldering spires so that lackey may connect if ever opponent has a lone blocker.

I do play Chieftain, just not Bushwacker. Ember Hauler is unplayable. Smoldering Spire is bad.

[kicks_422]

I think wardriver is slow as hell without chieftain/bushwacker for a @@ red drop might as well play ember hauler that is a 2/2 body that has burn. Also include 3 smoldering spires so that lackey may connect if ever opponent has a lone blocker.

He's got burn to clear the way, unlike Vial Goblins. Also, an etbt land would be pretty bad in a deck that's aiming to maximize its mana every turn.

[Mr. Safety]

My thoughts exactly on Dragon Fodder. Unplayable dude, what are you smoking...

I feel the same way about Mogg War Marshal! We don't play Warchief, and while I see that you're trying to maximize your value out of Wardriver/Bushwhacker and especially Chieftain, these 2mana 2 1/1 goblin spells are too slow in most cases. Teetering Peeks as well, im sorry, coming into play tapped ruins it. It's not the worst card to be playing, but in 2 land hands it just really hurts your speed. Storm Combo bats their eyes at these cards. Wasteland gives you a chance against them too, play it. I understand the card is $60 now, and that's ridiculous, but the card is that good.

Goblin Piledriver IS necessary. He's a boon for Goblins, don't leave home without 4.

Haha, nothing great, but thanks for asking... :wink: Regarding Wasteland...does burn/Sligh use Wasteland? I don't think they do...I haven't seen it anyways. I treat the deck the same way as those, as it is more akin to sligh than a true Vial-Goblins deck (in my opinion...)

The deck is a toy for me...it surprises me with some cool wins, but is predictable in it's power level (as in not fantastic.) Dragon Fodder is a 2-for-1, even if just a bad one. I like that it provids a way to attack for 6 with Bushwhacker. Again, toy deck...not competitive.

Didn't I say something along the lines of 'it's a fun deck, but not competitive?' Hrmm....

[troopatroop]

Okay, then why don't you just get the cards you're missing to make your deck better? If you were playing it in a tournament, what list would you play then? The world doesn't care about your experiences, they care about bettering the deck, so they can play it to win. That's what this board is about, please don't be offended. Building the best deck possible is all that matters.

[Mr. Safety]

Thanks for that, and definately no offense taken.

In that case, I think Piledriver is the go-to option:

4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Guide
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Wardriver
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Goblin Grenade
3x Fireblast
1x Gempalm Incinerator
20x Mountain

I'm only holding onto MWM and Bushwhacker for testing purposes...other options include:

Chain Lightning
Price of Progress
Grim Lavamancer
Gempalm Incinerator (more)

Honestly, MWM and Bushwhacker seem 'cute'...Most likely they need to go in favor of PoP and Chains. That would still leave 20 gobbos to feed Grenade. I'm still not sold on Wasteland in sligh...maybe you can convince me?

[troopatroop]

Every single deck in tier 1 legacy is playing non basics. I can't think of one deck that doesn't have targets.

Wasteland basically reads.

0cc
sorcery

You may not play this if you played a land already this turn

Destroy target nonbasic land. You may not play Lands this turn.

This ignores Stifle of course, and you can "hold" a Wasteland, but this is what the card does. In any aggressive deck, one in which you're playing creatures with the desire to attack, wasteland gets additional value. By destroying your opponents land, you've done yourself a serious service toward winning the game, for a multitiude of reasons (Tempo, Variance, Utility, w/e). In Sligh, Wasteland is incredible. Why wouldn't you run a card that said that, above? Seems better than Mental Misstep, even. Wasteland also taps for colorless mana. Some creatures even cost that! ;P

Also, you want Tattermunge more than Bushwhacker. Maybe I have an irrational hatred for the card, but I just hate it. It's a 2 mana effect to be played after a creature for the turn, and we play a hasted 1 drop! It just reeks of win-more, imo. I'd play Chain Lightning as well. Price is fine SB.

[Mr. Safety]

How do you feel about Gempalm Incinerator's? The deck has literally NO WAY to create card advantage, it's all gas.

Essentially I can swap MWM for Chains, and then swap out Bushy for Maniac, and you feel that would be an optimum list?

I'm was also considering 19 lands and a 2nd Gempalm...but if Wasteland gets included, I think 20 will probably be the wisest land count considering 2-4 Wastelands.

What are you thoughts?

EDIT: Bushy loses all of it's appeal if MWM goes away. I wouldn't play one without the other, as it's the amount of goblins that counts. That STILL leaves 24 goblins (if my math is right...) for Grenade and potential for multiple aggressive drops a turn (Lackey).

[Admiral_Arzar]

How do you feel about Gempalm Incinerator's? The deck has literally NO WAY to create card advantage, it's all gas.



Sligh does not need or want card advantage. Everything in your deck needs to either attack or go to the dome for damage.

[troopatroop]

Gempalm Incinerator is a great card, and I've considered playing it.

It's just not good enough. Dead against Combo + Control, and only good against Creature decks when you're winning. Chain Lightning is a better spell than Incinerator, although I could see the power against Merfolk or Maverick, but it's purely situational. It doesn't compete with Fireblast.

Now you need to fit Mental Misstep in too, imo. It's just tooo effective at being disruptive and protecting your guys. It's a metagame decision, at this point. 3 Tattermunge is fine, as it gives you "11" of the 1-drops you NEED to be starting the game with. Guide + Lackey are obv superior, but you can't always open with them. Bushwhacker doesn't increase your 1 drop density, and I think you'll be pleased with Maniac. It's a Jackal Pup ;)

===AN EXAMPLE OF WHY WASTELAND IS GODLY ====

Turn 1, Mountain, Tattermunge Maniac

their 1, Tropical Island, Noble Hierarch

Turn 2, Waste the Tropical, Bolt the Hierarch, Attack for 2.

Talk about brutal. 2 Mana sources down for the opponent, and you're swinging already. It's like going back in time, and your Tattermunge got hungry waiting. There's no reason not to want Wasteland in this deck. It's sensational on the play, stretching the early game by a full turn. The only reason I could see not playing it would be Goblin Guide. Not playing Wasteland doesn't lose you your games before they've started. Mountains work fine. But when Wasteland is good, it's the best card in Legacy. You can quote me on that.

[Mr. Safety]

Sligh does not need or want card advantage. Everything in your deck needs to either attack or go to the dome for damage.

I completely understand, I misworded it...i simply add in 1-2 of something that can give a deck reach in most of my slidh decks (I should have said reach, not card advantage...silly nooby me.) Drawing into another dude/burn spell could provide that reach, especially if it's Fireblast or Goblin Grenade. Without Grims, the deck loses that sort of end-game reach. I was thinking along the lines of Sylvan Library in zoo (even some cat sligh versions use at least 1 Library) The hand replenishment was what I was looking for...and it seemed better than Browbeat or Magma Jet.

Regardless, I think Gempalm isn't for this deck. A better option needs to be found.

@ troopatroop: Mental Misstep maindeck or sideboard? It's juicy with Wasteland, but I can't help but feel like it is more like a tempo-controlling deck rather than a tempo-DRIVING deck at that point. I understand where you're coming from (I've lurked your Blue Zoo thread) but is that the way to go with Goblin Sligh? I figure 3x Wasteland could really benefit GS, but I'm not entirely sold on Mental Misstep yet. I suppose it could take 4 more goblin slots away (leaving 19-20 for Grenade and aggressive drops) and then work in Chains.

Interested in what your list would look like exactly with both MM and Wasteland...care to indulge me?

[Grollub]

@Wasteland: You'll never ever want to go below 4 - the land is just that good, the ability to manascrew, delay your opponent, take out troublesome lands and save burn against manlands is just too important.

I've played Sligh in all formats, and ever since Tempest never wanted to play less than 4 Wastelands when I had the option without getting DQed. It's important to realize that Sligh by heart and nature actually is aggro/control with the option to flip into God of War mode and be hyper-aggressive (where conventional aggro/control usually can switch into a less extreme mode on both sides), Wasteland is an exceptional card in both modes.

Historical you can see that the winning Sligh lists always use Wasteland if legal. The card is pivotal to Sligh's mission of early game pressure.

Regarding the mana configuration, I've always been happy with a 17/4 split.

@Pyrokinesis: It's only card disadvantage if it kills one creature, which often times is not the case. Regardless if it do kill only 1 creature, it's usually a creature you couldn't have answered without Pyrokinesis or gives you a tactical edge/prevents disaster by killing it right then and there. If you have space in the SB, it's definately a viable option.

[Qweerios]

What do you guys think about a black splash for Dark Confidant and Goblin Deathraiders? Raider is simply a good 2drop for a goblin deck and Bob still beats for 2 while fueling your hand. This is the list I came up with recently:


Creatures (28)
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Deathraiders
4 Dark Confidant
4 Goblin Chieftain

Spells (12)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Grenade

Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
3 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa

Sideboard (15)
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
3 Shattering Spree


I see no reasons NOT to play Wasteland in a sligh deck, Goblin Guide is not an argument.

***EDIT*** I took out Goblin Cadet for Goblin Arsonist and added my sideboard. I don't know which is better between Tattermunge Mania and Goblin Arsonist but I know they are both better than Goblin Cadet.

[troopatroop]

Man that list is rough... I think Dark Confidant could be good, but I wouldn't play Deathraiders.

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Wardriver
3 Goblin Chieftain 19

4 Dark Confidant
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
3 Chain Lightning
2 Terminate "19 otherstuff"

4 Wasteland
18 land

howabout this? sorry I've gotta run, will work on this later.

[Qweerios]

I did quite a lot of testing last night on cockatrice with friends and the results were very positive. One of the most surprising matchups was against BUG Control with Jace and Deeds. The games extend to about turn 15-20 and the games are always close. What was remarkable was the zoo-like constant pressure that the 28 creature count could apply while Dark Confidant kept the cards coming. Vedalken Shackles is the hardest to deal with. I went 3-2.

General equipment aggro/control is positive as well since all of their creatures are bolt sized and anything bigger than a grenade never hits the board before they are doomed. I took down bant aggro, deadguy, maverick, NO bant.

ANT and Belcher are not favorable in the least. Dredge on the other hand, is quite easy when you dont let them abuse bridge (grenade does a great job at removing it).

I have loved Goblin Deathraiders so much, especially with a Chieftain on the field. 3 power coupled with trample makes a great 2drop for sligh, adding haste just makes it so much better. I think Wardriver is a terrible card for sligh because it hurts so little for its cost and getting to attack with 3+ creatures only ever occur when the game is already decided.

Dark Confidant, Goblin Lackey, and Goblin Chieftain are the heart and soul of this deck IMO. The most lacking cards in the deck right now are probably Arsonist and Goblin Grenade. Goblin grenade makes a great surprise and strong finisher but seeing multiples is usually a dissapointment, it also turns Mental Misstep into a devastating card. I think the deck could use at least 2 more lords (Mad Auntie?) and could probably change 1 or 2 grenades for Jitte or instant-speed removal such as Magma Jet. Goblin Bushwhacker, Goblin Vandal, Spikeshot Elder, and Knucklebone Witch all look like good replacements for Arsonist.

[Greenpoe]

If you've been disappointed with Grenade, have you thought about Snuff Out? Free removal seems good for this deck.

[Qweerios]

-Jitte is too slow and mana intensive for this deck.
-Terminate is a must for Goyf, KotR, Tombstalker, Obliterator, Rhox War Monk, etc... It's too easy to lose to a T2-3 fatty.
-Tattermunge Maniac is really good, much better than I thought.
-Mad Auntie is great. With 8 lords, lackey is much more menacing and Auntie's regeneration ability is nothing to scoff at. My only complaint is that she kinda screws up the mana curve.
-Goblin Grenade is crap...

My list:


Creatures (28)
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Mad Auntie
4 Dark Confidant

Spells (12)
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate

Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
3 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Extirpate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Shattering Spree


I think I fell in love.

[Freggle]

-Jitte is too slow and mana intensive for this deck.
-Terminate is a must for Goyf, KotR, Tombstalker, Obliterator, Rhox War Monk, etc... It's too easy to lose to a T2-3 fatty.
-Tattermunge Maniac is really good, much better than I thought.
-Mad Auntie is great. With 8 lords, lackey is much more menacing and Auntie's regeneration ability is nothing to scoff at. My only complaint is that she kinda screws up the mana curve.
-Goblin Grenade is crap...

My list:


Creatures (28)
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Mad Auntie
4 Dark Confidant

Spells (12)
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate

Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
3 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Extirpate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Shattering Spree


I think I fell in love.

Qweerios. This list looks really good. I'm lovin' the Extirpates in the SB. I have been running them for a little while now with great success.

They are not only good for normal Yard MU, but control as well as once they use a counterspell you can grab the other 3.

Why Thoughtseize over Inquisition of Kozilek? ...Force of Will?

You have sold me on Inquisition so I'm sure you have it in there for a reason. Running it along side a healthy smattering of fetch, Bob, & Chain Lightning does not seem overly risky, but may not be needed.

Seems a little weak on answering bomb enchantments. I'm not sure what enchantment outside of deed, moat, or humility that would give you too many issues, that your opponent could drop and use in time, but it's an observation. Likely the colors of the deck though.

Post board I guess you have Thoughtseize to yank them pre-cast, and you do have Revoker for deed too. Just something to look at.

Edit: How about you drop an Extirpate & 2 Shattering Spree for 3 Chaos Warp

[Qweerios]

Thoughtseize > IoK because its a sligh deck. People don't attack into sligh, they defend against it. Grabing FoW is a bad idea but Ad Nauseam, Ill-Gotten Gains, Tendrils, Belcher, Warrens, Moat, Humility, Elspeth, Jace, WoG, Damnation, Emrakul, NO, Phyrexian Ob, etc... are all things you don't want to see. Also, if I draw 4 Bobs, i will play all 4 of them for the extra cards.

As for Chaos Warp, If its sole purpose is to remove enchantments, I would play Dystopia instead.

I like Shattering Spree because it is practically uncounterable and takes care of Chalice @1, Affinity, and Equipment packages (Batterskull, Jitte, SoFI).

[GoblinZ]

I am interested in this deck, how about goblin cadets, mogg fanatic or mogg conscripts?

[Mikeleroi]

I was thinking about a deck similar, but splashing green-> rancor, land grant and bequeathal. But, wooded foothills and stomping ground are needed :rolleyes:

My deck is:

4 Tattermunge maniac
4 Mogg conscripts
4 Goblin cohort
4 Goblin guide
4 Gempalm incinerator
3 Mogg war marshal
3 Goblin arsonist

4 Land grant
4 Rancor
4 Bequeathal

4 Lightning bolt
3 Magma jet
3 Goblin grenade

4 Wooded foothills
3 Stomping ground
4 Mountain
1 Forest

It is not going to win any tournament, but... is fun :tongue: