[SCD] Surgical Extraction

[Solar Ice]

This was spoiled on Mtgsalvation today:

Surgical Extraction

Pay 2 life or B to cast

Instant
Rare

Choose target card in a graveyard other than a basic land card. Search its owner's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and exile them. Then that player shuffles his or her library.


So, an Extirpate without Spit Second but an alternate free casting cost. I think it will see play, especially since it can lead to a powerful T1 Duress, Extraction play. Excellent card, imo. It can be more powerful against ANT/TES than Extipate due to the free CC as well as being another card that Spiral Tide has to worry about. Overall, Split Second is powerful, but it's definitely worth considering playing Extraction over (or in conjunction with) Extirpate.

Discuss.

[perm]

the transition from 1CC to 0CC is a FAR bigger step in power increase from 2cc to 1cc or 3cc to 2cc etc...

this is a more powerful extirpate for sure. As you mentioned, the t1 potential is massive, as well as the tapped out information assumption opponents have.

Extirpate will still have its niche in SB

[practical joke]

the transition from 1CC to 0CC is a FAR bigger step in power increase from 2cc to 1cc or 3cc to 2cc etc...

this is a more powerful extirpate for sure. As you mentioned, the t1 potential is massive, as well as the tapped out information assumption opponents have.

Extirpate will still have its niche in SB

this will replace extirpate in most decks, a very selective few ammount of decks will keep extirpate in there because of "split second" which does still makes that card excellent.

[perm]

I really hope wizards does more of this thing to revitalize sui black. Was such a cool deck before the absurd and unforgivable power creep of "lol turn right till win" cards far outweighed risk vs reward cards like carnophage

[Solar Ice]

Personally, I like any card that fights Counterbalance. We can never have enough of those, imo. If I were to label a card as being "unfair", Counterbalance would be the definition of unfairness.

[jam3sbob]

what is the converted mana cost of a phyrexian mana? is it 1 or 0?

[J.V.]

what is the converted mana cost of a phyrexian mana? is it 1 or 0?

It would be 1. Assuming it is the same as the (B/2)(G/2) type things having a converted cost of 4 when they were revealed to things like Dark Confident but there converted mana cost on the stack is probably what you pay for it similar to an X card.

[Gui]

I was kind of predicting a good grave hate from this edition just because Dredge was putting too much results... maybe there's no connection, but the good grave hate came anyways.

Since this card is non-black, any deck shall be able to use it, which is good, but black decks will probably preffer extirpate, since :b: is almost nothing, unless you are siding it against ANT/TES.

[perm]

Has anyone thought of the possibilities with unmask? I am probably overestimating it since unmask is a sorcery, but it could quickly turn the tides against combo where nothing else could

[Nihil Credo]

Wizards, please stop pushing Pitch World.

[Infinitium]

So Extirpate in any color? Wizard sure doesn't like control decks no more huh? Also this looks way better than extirpate in sui black style decks or team america and similar decks that cares about targeted discard and land destruction. And it has synergy with Cabal Therapy as well, which in turn plays well with Bloodghast, and Smallpox, and The Rack. Hmm.

Well, I'll try it out for one.

EDIT: Oh, and it has additional utility versus Spiral Tide as that deck generally needs more than 1 tide effect to combo out efficiently, and brainstorming to hide tide from targeted discard only gets you that far.

[Arsenal]

Although I generally disagree with Extirpate and it's ilk, I do like the fact that they're going to be pushing alternate costs in the form of phyrexian mana. This design makes me happy, and I will concede that a Turn 1 discard+ Extraction play may be pretty decent versus combo.

[Gui]

It would be 1. Assuming it is the same as the (B/2)(G/2) type things having a converted cost of 4 when they were revealed to things like Dark Confident but there converted mana cost on the stack is probably what you pay for it similar to an X card.

202.3c When calculating the converted mana cost of an object with a hybrid mana symbol in its mana cost, use the largest component of each hybrid symbol.

I'd say Surgical Extraction cmc = 1 even on the stack

[kiblast]

Yay! just the month after I bought foil Extirpates :(
Anyway,I don't know how much could be important the lack of split second...

This card is nuts in T2. 25$ mark for sure.

[workingdude]

Copy and pasted from the New Phyrexia thread:

Vs Extirpate:

In the Legacy metagame, I believe Extirpate is the better choice. The obvious difference is splitsecond vs free/colorless. In most cases, the life is not really a consideration due to its effectiveness mainly against control and combo decks. If you need the hate in another color than clearly extraction is better.

However, in black decks, extirpate is the better choice. Lets look at the reasons why you'd use this effect in a deck. In the following analysis, I use the term "effectiveness" to describe the ability for extirpate/extraction to have a legitimate, game-changing effect.

Against combo, stripping decks of their high tide and painter's servants and other combo pieces are great effects. However, these cards have to hit the yard first. This means that the "free" cost plays little to no role in the early game, which is the time when mana counts the most. The cards must hit the grave before this comes into play. Turn one thoughtseize, extraction is a solid play against high tide. This assumes however, that there is no force in the opponents hand. The relevant combo decks that this effect is good against, often has counterspell/force backup. Furthermore, assuming that the thoughtseize hits turn one, there is no loss in effectiveness if you go turn one thoughtseize, turn 2 extirpate. Extirpate is a stronger play against slower, more resilient combos. Against fast combos, these cards often have very little use.

Against control decks, this effect is used to remove combo finishers (thopter foundry) or one of the few win conditions that a deck may run. For example, decks like this (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=813906). This means that split second is essential to get past countertop/counter backup to remove a win condition. After the few win conditions have been dealt with, their decks can do nothing but deck themselves (which is due to their cantrips).

Against general aggro decks, this effect is very limited in effectiveness.

Against dredge, extraction is clearly better as it allows you to work a turn faster. However, it is debatable whether or not extraction is better against dredge than other, more general, graveyard hate.

Also, whats up with the design of this set? There are so many cards that are just old cards with the set mechanics attached to them. (Blightsteel, inkmoth, extraction)



Assuming your opponent starts out with a dual land:

T1: Wasteland, this, exile all copies of said dual.

Could even hit copies in their hand if you're lucky. Other than that, you still made their fetchlands significantly worse, especially if they're light on good, fetchable alternatives.

And this combo is playable in all colors.

This play was not good when extirpate was available, and I doubt it will be now. The situation you are describing sounds like you are playing this card in the mainboard, which I'm fairly confident this will not see play in. If this is coming in from the sideboard, I sincerely hope that it is not for this land destruction purpose, but for destroying combos.

Also, once again, there is little loss in "effectiveness" with extirpate, even in this fringe scenario. A majority of players will tend to hold back on their dual lands after a quick wasteland. Even though this is not usually the optimal play, and many pros know that the answer to opposing wastelands is to play MORE duals, these opponents are often scared into dropping basics instead of duals for a couple turns. If all the opponent has in his hand is one more land, and its a dual land, you are in good shape anyways.

[mishima_kazuya]

Yay! just the month after I bought foil Extirpates :(
Anyway,I don't know how much could be important the lack of split second...

This card is nuts in T2. 25$ mark for sure.

Prolly will settle at $10 as a niche rare.

[tsabo_tavoc]

Yay! just the month after I bought foil Extirpates :(
Anyway,I don't know how much could be important the lack of split second...

This card is nuts in T2. 25$ mark for sure.

No because it is rare AND the buy-a-box promo. Sympathy on your foil Exitrpates, at least you can sell them now and keep the balance.

[Arsenal]

Celestial Colonnade was a Buy-A-Box Promo, it's the most widely used dual land in Standard right now (Cawblade), and it's about $5. Surgical Extraction will be $2-3 at most.

[makochman]

SCG has it for preorder for $15 and Ebay sellers want $80+ for a playset, which is a bit silly. It certainly won't go under $8 anytime soon. But I don't see this as obsoleting Extirpate since Split Second is so good. Great card for non-black decks though...

[GGoober]

The split second on Extirpate is what really makes Extirpate good (if you are playing black-splash in your lists). There's just not much you can do to stop Extirpate and a well-timed Extirpate without worrying about getting countered can wreck games. This card would have been great back down when Survivals were around though. This card, will still run into the Extirpate issue: Extirpate is not a good maindeck card, Extirpate is still a little narrow in the SB to be used to its full effectiveness. IMO cranial extraction, like Extirpate, will shine when the meta demands for it e.g. a lot of High Tide decks, a lot of control decks playing only Jace as their win-condition, Aggro Loam, etc.

[Koby]

SCG has it for preorder for $too much

They also presold Koth for $50, and Karn for $50, and Sarkhan Vol for $30.

Presale means nothing, unless you pre-ordered Stoneforge Mystic for $3.

[Arsenal]

Or Jace at $25, but alas...

Yeah, like I said, I think it should settle down around the $2-3 mark. It's a niche rare that will fulfill a niche function in Standard (the format that truly drives prices of Standard legal cards). Maybe if it wasn't a buy-a-box promo, it'd be a bit more expensive, but even then, it'd probably top out at $5-6. Celestial Colonnade is in HUGE demand thanks to Cawblade, and it's only $5-6 right now. Whoever thinks Surgical Extraction is a $10-20 rare is fooling themselves and trying to speculate into profit.

[dahcmai]

I figure it's $2-3 dollar mark also. the hype on cards is getting pretty silly anymore. Some deserved, most is not.

It's only a regular rare. It took Stoneforge Mystic and Fauna Shaman to push over the $10 mark. Somehow I don't think this card is as format bending as those. Even a Mythic like Molten-Tail Masticore is getting only $4 now. It has to be fairly spectacular for a regular rare to go above 10 ever. Wait until the hype dies down if you want a set for some reason. I'll just trade for mine. Not worth picking up for cash in my book.

For Legacy, I would rather have the Split Second, but against a Loam deck, it sure is nice to have Extirpate 5-6 if you really fall over and die to those decks. Being free to cast doesn't really make it better to me. Split second is just unfair really.

[Mr.C]

SCG has it for preorder for $15 and Ebay sellers want $80+ for a playset, which is a bit silly. It certainly won't go under $8 anytime soon. But I don't see this as obsoleting Extirpate since Split Second is so good. Great card for non-black decks though...

It's a regular rare with a promo version. It will be $2-$3.

[mossivo1986]

This card will see more play with it's release then as a real contender in the format. The people who are saying that it's real power is it's free are right and wrong.

Its powerfull because any-archetype can play it. Remember all those times where you thought, "he's playing black, i'm alittle ahead; if he pates me this could hurt." Yeah, now you have to fear the reaper from every angle. The real difference is one you can't counter, and another you can.

if you could counter an extirpate, Would you really?

Most of the time i'm pretty sure I wouldn't.

[GGoober]

Depends, if the Extirpate is not hitting a key spell in the deck, then no. Also, if the Extirpate is stripping 1-2 cards in my hand as a result or giving information critical to my opponent that affects my gameplay then yes.

It's the same reason as FoWing a Thoughtseize is usually bad, but there are situations where preserving the other cards or preserving information is still more important than the card disadvantage.

I see it settling at about $5. The deal is, Phyrexian Revoker is good in Vintage, and some extent Legacy, and is still playable in Standard. It went from $10 to $4. I had some hopes for Revoker tanking at $7 minimum but it seems that it's still not a good out to Planeswalkers in Standard (being a creature definitely doesn't help in Standard).

[bracer028]

in legacy, i'm thinking the new card extraction is better than extirpate.

the only time suicide black/eva green Boards in extirpate is when you go against 1. dredge and 2. combo. Those decks don't really have counters anyways.

[Tacosnape]

This is probably a bit better than Extirpate. The difference 1 mana makes in a format this fast is astronomical, and will be a factor more often than Extirpate's split second. Aggro Loam and Lands are less scared of it, as they can cycledredge in response to it, but Dredge is probably more scared of it than Extirpate. Any deck packing Cunning Wish LOVES this thing. Most aggro decks will like not having to tap out, and my feeling is that a lot of them will arrange a split between this and Tormod's Crypt to better evade Cabal Therapy from Dredge. And it's tied for the second fastest yard hate in the format with Ravenous Trap, behind only Leyline of the Void. It's worth noting that the few U/B Reanimator decks still out there will love this card being printed, as it's hittable with Force, Seize, and occasionally Daze.

Faster is better in Legacy. And while this will not be the begin all end all of graveyard hate, it will rank up there.

[2Rach]

The difference 1 mana makes in a format this fast is astronomical, and will be a factor more often than Extirpate's split second.
One less mana? The fact that this fits into any color(s) of deck means this will see a ton more play.

[rufus]

This is probably a bit better than Extirpate. The difference 1 mana makes in a format this fast is astronomical, and will be a factor more often than Extirpate's split second. ...

Also, cheaper is always better in counters. This card is pretty strong vs Intution and topdeck tutors like Enlightened Tutor.

I find myself wondering if there's potential for a Ratuator deck built around pulling cards from your own library.
Relentless Rats
Extirpate
Surgical Extraction
...
Chrome Mox
Careful Study
Ideas Unbound
Smallpox

[teliot]

Celestial Colonnade was a Buy-A-Box Promo, it's the most widely used dual land in Standard right now (Cawblade), and it's about $5. Surgical Extraction will be $2-3 at most.

Agreed but only because Vengevine is not very popular right now and it's rotating soon.

Personally I feel that Extirpate is just a bad card, and while Surgical Extraciton is better it's still not all that good in Legacy. I don't think playing this is a good idea in any maindeck because it's close to useless against zoo, merfolk, goblins, and any of the white stoneforge variants. In sideboards I feel like more impactful cards are better.

[I am the brainwasher]

I think the deck where this card can do a really good job is Canadian Threshold. Extirpate effects can be really powerful on KotR or Life from the Loam which normally annoy the decks like hell. Hitting other key-cards could do a very decent job for the decks strategy also. I really disliked the Crypt in the deck for several reasons besides playing against Dredge (and the MU will still stay not that great even with those). I wouldnt be too surprised to see it in there after a few weeks/months.