Kanan Weenie

[(nameless one)]

Alright, it's essentially a white weenie deck based on a Kanan Luce (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37495)'s Squadron Hawk Weenie build that came 15th at SCG Open: LA


8 Plains
6 Fetchlands
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port

4 Mother of Runes
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Stoneforge Mystic

4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Scroll Rack
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Umezawa's Jitte


So it essentially takes advantage of Squadron Hawks. Paired with Scroll Rack and you can cycle those birds for fresh cards. If you get Flickerwisp to replay the birds, then you get to cycle them again!

It also took the Wayfarer tech from U/W Tempo (which Kanan used in his SCG Open deck)

*unfortunately I'm on a phone right now, so the description is brief. Hopefully, I could get some useful comments and suggestions to make the deck more optimal.

EDIT:


Well, the reason why Scroll Racks are there is to abuse the number of Squadron Hawks in your hand. It also has that slight synergy with Weathered Wayfarer and shuffling effects of Fetchlands. Sensei's Divining Top cannot do this.

Its essentially a weenie deck that stole ideas from Randy Buehler's Tax Rack Weenie, the Original Death and Taxes and U/W Tempo.

....picture this:

You have Racks in the field, you play Birds. You look for your library for more Birds and put them in your hand. You activate Rack and 'brainstorm' those Birds back on top of your library to get 3 new cards. You can use Fetchlands (or even WWayfarer) to reshuffle your library. If you can Flickerwisp the Birds, much better.

If you did Flickerwisp the Birds, you get another 3 Birds in your hand, only to be 'brainstormed' by Racks again (not to mentioned that your library gets shuffled again). If you did the Fetchland (or WWayfarer) way, you will be drawing a new card thats not a bird.

Worst case scenario, you draw another Bird that your 'brainstormed' with the Rack, your replay that Bird again (netting you two cards) and you can 'brainstorm' them back with Rack to get two new cards.


See where the card advantage is coming from? I don't play Standard but I believe Caw-Blade does the same card advantage engine (using Super Jace to do the brainstorm trick with the Birds).

Yes, Super Jace is better than Scroll Rack but do you really want to risk your mana base for that? Like what I said, it stole some ideas from D&T and U/W Tempo (it stole the mana denial aspect of those decks). If I were to play blue with weenies, I might as well play U/W Tempo or CounterRebels.

Hopefully Kanan doesn't mind me stealing his name to name this deck. If you have something against it, let me know so I can call it a different name.

[Wizened Cenn]

This is what i'm running now:

8 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
4 Wasteland
1 Rishadan Port
1 Mishra's Factory
4 AEther Vial
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Serra Avenger
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Mother of Runes
1 Goldmeadow Harrier
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Leonin Relic-Warder

Sideboard is a mess at the moment, until I get some Enlightened Tutors.

[klaus]

-1 jitte
+1 sofi
For sure. Sofi may be overhyped but there still is a reason for its pricejump it simply is insane with fliers.

On the Flickerwisp topic: i love that card - it has so many applications and subtle synergies (ie. Removing one of your lands for another wayfarer activation), and i like the hawk synergie but a whole playset of wisps does not seem to be the correct number. I'd definitely go with 3 (beyond scroll rack + hawk it's actually only good with an active vial)
The free slot plus another two that you get by removing those rings will give you 3 slots for mangara, fulfilling oring's purpose while being reusable (keep in mind that wayfarer tutors for karakas!) as well as equippable and removing those permanents for good.
Thoughts?

[Wizened Cenn]

Does Scroll Rack do anything without a Squadron Hawk? There aren't a whole lot of dead cards to put back. Even with a Hawk, you have to pay 5 mana to get 3 fresh cards. Sensei's Top serves a similar purpose and is always usable. I don't think it is necessary to have some sort of 'combo' for Squadron Hawk to be good.

SoFaI is worth another try, but I was disappointed with it in LA. Jitte is more versatile, can be used on the defense, and they don't have to go unblocked. It can also kill something with P/T greater than 2, which is very relevant against Merfolk. Sword is also 1 mana more which really sucked. You have to wait at least one more turn to cast and equip, or use two turns to get it down. It is good to have another target for Stoneforge Mystic though.

I'll give Flickerwisp, Mangara and Karakas a try.

[(nameless one)]

Well, the reason why Scroll Racks are there is to abuse the number of Squadron Hawks in your hand. It also has that slight synergy with Weathered Wayfarer and shuffling effects of Fetchlands. Sensei's Divining Top cannot do this.

Its essentially a weenie deck that stole ideas from Randy Buehler's Tax Rack Weenie, the Original Death and Taxes and U/W Tempo.

The Mangara/Karakas/Vial lock is powerful but I don't see it shining in a format with varied threats. Having that card advantage (with Squadron Hawks) and card quality (with Scroll Rack) can address this.

Yes, Sensei's Divining Top is awesome, but what exactly can you do with those Squakbirds in your hand in junction with SDT? They're not going to be all useful in every matchup (the birds). Having to dig through your library with Scroll Rack, you have that chance of getting the cards you need. Also picture this:

You have Racks in the field, you play Birds. You look for your library for more Birds and put them in your hand. You activate Rack and 'brainstorm' those Birds back on top of your library to get 3 new cards. You can use Fetchlands (or even WWayfarer) to reshuffle your library. If you can Flickerwisp the Birds, much better.

If you did Flickerwisp the Birds, you get another 3 Birds in your hand, only to be 'brainstormed' by Racks again (not to mentioned that your library gets shuffled again). If you did the Fetchland (or WWayfarer) way, you will be drawing a new card thats not a bird.

Worst case scenario, you draw another Bird that your 'brainstormed' with the Rack, your replay that Bird again (netting you two cards) and you can 'brainstorm' them back with Rack to get two new cards.

Can you do that with Sensei's Divining Top?

[Wizened Cenn]

Scroll Rack still isn't great without a Squadron Hawk. Top allows you to find cards that aren't random, and without relying on another card. I don't know why people are so keen to try and get rid of the Hawks, most of the time four evasive bodies are good, even if they are 1/1.

Scroll Rack could be good, netting spells for lands from late game wayfarer activations, flushing away duplicate equipment/stoneforges and extra vials (and of course Hawks), but really I still think I'd prefer Top.

Neither Top or Scroll Rack net you any cards, so I think it comes down to how you value Hawk. I believe Hawk is actually a valuable creature, whereas you seem to see it as an Ancestral Recall that needs a combo.

Also I don't mind you using my name, but "Kanan Weenie" really doesn't sound great (in my opinion). Maybe "Luce Cannon"?

EDIT: We pronounce Luce 'loose' just in case that wasn't clear

[perm]

Scroll Rack is definitely a cool ad powerful card, and is criminally underused. I am glad to see it being used well here, much better than jace for that specific use. But have you considered blue? Brainstorm is just a good card in general and with fetches, and works especially well here. Squadron Hawk is indeed good, especially with the best equips in the game.

[(nameless one)]

Squadron Hawks don't need Scroll Racks to be good but sometimes, if you want cards other than Squadron Hawks, you can take advantage of Scroll Racks. Notice that I'm only running 3 Racks.

I see what you mean when about Tops and Racks not getting you card advantage. The truth is they don't and won't ever but they do fix your draws (better card quality).

[Wizened Cenn]

Brainstorm would be nice, but then you would probably be better off playing U/W Tempo. Being Mono-White allows you to play Rishadan Ports/Mishra's Factories.

[_erbs_]

Hello,
How about something like this..

Lands [21]
3 karakas
4 flooded strand
2 arid mesa
5 plains
4 wasteland
3 rishadan port

Creatures [25]
4 mother of runes
3 weathered wayfarer
3 phyrexian revoker / ethersworn canonist
4 squadron hawk
3 stoneforge mystic
3 serra avenger
3 managara of corondor
2 flickerwisp

Spells [14]
4 aether vial
1 jitte
1 sofi
1 sols
4 swords to plowshares
3 sensei's divinning top

I think phyrexian revoker is going to be nice if you plan on crippling your opponents mana, revoker can shut down mana dorks and pridemage, etc.
I've also added mangara in the mix as it could provide answers to random threats.
The problem i see right now is that up against traditional zoo the deck will struggle as the decks creatures lack muscle. The deck might have a problem in dealing with decks that packs lots of removals aswell. If the deck wasn't able to stall your opponents early on the deck will have a hard time dealing with other mid range decks aswell

I prefer sdt over scroll rack bec it comes down faster. they almost have the same function. rack removes dead cards from your hand while top searches answers in your library without touching your hand. they are both nice when the deck runs fetch lands.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

IMO, three Scroll Racks is too many. Multiple copies are horrible, and it really puts pressure on you to have a fetchland or an active Wayfarer to get good use out of it (not to mention it's a little lackluster without any hawks/ extra lands/ unnecessary Vials in hand to go along with it. I'd cut one for another creature/ answer.

Also, I agree that 4 Flickerwisp is probably too many, since you are light on ways to abuse them. I'd strongly consider going down to 2 or 3 copies of this. Knight of Meadowgrain or Figure of Destiny may be worth consideration, but it's also possible that I just have a soft spot for Kithkins. Knight of the White Orchid probably also deserves mentioning. Or you could always try another Stoneforge Mystic or something along those lines...

[(nameless one)]

I agree on Scroll Rack being to many. I was thinking of running 2 along with 3 Enlightened Tutor with possible silver bullets. This deck definitely needs thorough testing though I see it's potential.

[Wizened Cenn]

I wouldn't play with less than 4 Weathered Wayfarer. I'm not impressed by Mangara/Karakas (Although the list probably should have 1 Karakas, to be tutored with Wayfarer) it seems to slow and to easy to disrupt, although I guess it works out for Death and Taxes.

A few Revokers/Canonist MB would help the dreadful combo matchup (Speaking of which what would you run in the sideboard?) but seems weak against a lot of other things.

My Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

EDIT: If anyone wants to test with me over MWS, I'm available most evenings.

[_erbs_]

Im guessing the deck is weak against:
- mbc
- all forms of combo (less one if you have karakas & mangara vs show and tell)
- rock
- traditional zoo

@Wizened Cenn
the wayfarer are nice but running 4 copies form me seems over. in my proposed build i guess.

as for SB i would go for something like this:
4 leyline of sanctity
1 bojuka bog
1 tormods crypt
4 ethersworn canonist
3 burrenton forgetender
2 pithing needle / oblivion ring / relic warder

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I agree on Scroll Rack being to many. I was thinking of running 2 along with 3 Enlightened Tutor with possible silver bullets. This deck definitely needs thorough testing though I see it's potential.

Enlightened Tutor is a good sideboard card for strategies like this, but I think it has absolutely no place in the maindeck (if that's where you were suggesting putting it, I wasn't exactly clear). You need to focus on consistency and a quick clock, rather than go for too much of a controlling approach.

Here's some tough advice: Basically, I think in order to be successful you need to have solid plans to beat the strategies which have been keeping White Weenie down in this format: Zoo and Storm Combo. Basically, White Weenie doesn't have too many meaningful ways to interact with these decks. Against Zoo, their creatures are just beefier than yours, for equal or less mana than what the White Weenie player is paying for theirs. You need to find ways to make them overextend, resolve bombs, and gain card advantage over them to beat them. Storm Combo, on the other hand, is usually just able to ROFL-stomp White Weenie, because white has no relevant disruption against them (and usually a slower clock than the decks which are able to try to race Storm). To compensate for this, you need a bomb-ass sideboard plan for at least one of these decks, and possibly both of them. However, you should probably be willing to abandon one of these matchups, in order to still have some free sideboard slots.

Don't take this as discouragement... I freakin' <3 White Weenie strategies, and I'd love to see this deck evolve into sort of a more aggressive cousin of Death & Taxes, so there would be two semi-viable WW decks in the format. I just think you need to be aware of the fundamental problems that the strategy has to overcome.

[Wizened Cenn]

The deck is definitely weak against combo and the rock. (also Team America, which was like 20% in testing, but I won against 2 Team Americas in LA so I may have to reconsider that)
In very limited testing against zoo, the matchup is not one I want to see, but not miserable. Death and Taxes claims ~50% so that is a rough estimate of what we should have.
I've also had a bit of trouble with Counterbalance at my local store.
On the other hand, the deck is good against Merfolk, Goblins, Affinity and most other aggro/aggro control decks.

[_erbs_]

The deck is definitely weak against combo and the rock. (also Team America, which was like 20% in testing, but I won against 2 Team Americas in LA so I may have to reconsider that)
In very limited testing against zoo, the matchup is not one I want to see, but not miserable. Death and Taxes claims ~50% so that is a rough estimate of what we should have.
I've also had a bit of trouble with Counterbalance at my local store.
On the other hand, the deck is good against Merfolk, Goblins, Affinity and most other aggro/aggro control decks.

WG version

Lands [21]
4 windswept heath
3 horizon canopy
3 savannah
4 plains or + 1 kor haven / maze of ith
1 karakas
4 wasteland
2 rishadan port

Creatures [24]
4 mother of runes
3 weathered wayfarer
2 phyrexian revoker
4 tarmogoyf
4 squadron hawk
2 scryb ranger
2 stoneforge mystic
3 kotr

Spells [15]
4 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
2 pte
1 jitte
1 sofi
3 sensei's divinning top / scroll rack

[Wizened Cenn]

If your splashing green and already running Scryb Ranger, Fauna Shaman seems pretty good with Squadron Hawk.

[ReverentChastity]

I've also had a bit of trouble with Counterbalance at my local store.


Well there's only one person who plays Counterbalance there... :wink:

[Wizened Cenn]

Well there's only one person who plays Counterbalance there... :wink:

I do tend to get 'sporked' by Lyle

[Wizened Cenn]

Wrote a Tournament Report using the deck:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20608-4th-at-Knight-Ware-Inc-The-Story-of-a-Boy-and-His-Weenie&p=538962#post538962
What do you think of the black splash?

[Zlatzman]

Just noticed this thread, and wanted to make a few comments based on my own experiences with this deck. I've taken a black splash version to two tournaments with around 25 players each, won the first one and made T8 in the second one.

First, for reference, my decklist:

// Lands
4 [UNH] Plains
1 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [R] Scrubland
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Student of Warfare
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
3 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [M11] Squadron Hawk
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
1 [MBS] Mirran Crusader

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
1 [CFX] Path to Exile
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
2 [AP] Vindicate
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 4 [M11] Duress
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [TE] Diabolic Edict


I have noticed that more often than not the deck will assume a controlling role, trying to stall the game until it can get a flyer + an equipment active. The Mother of Runes along with Squadron Hawks did a good job for me against Goyfs, KotRs and goblins, managing to stall the game long enough for my own card advantage to kick in and beat them down.

I have also won many games on the back of Weathered Wayfarer, simply wasting them out of the game. This is especially powerful when followed up by a Vindicate on one of their lands. Still I would have liked some cards with more synergy with the Wayfarer, unfortunately they all seem to be in the wrong colours. As for utility lands I have been considering swapping out the Path to Exile with a Maze of Ith, but I dont thing it's worth the speed reduction.

When it comes to equipment the 1/1/1-split has served me well. SoFF would be the first to get cut if I wanted to reduce the amount of equipment in the deck. This would lead to less equipment-flooding, but so far I have liked having three equipment and three Stoneforge Mystics.

Dark Confidant. He is extremely powerful in this deck, ensuring that a steady stream of threats will be drawn. If I were to go mono-White again the I believe Confidant slots need to be an aggressive creature. Having the black splash has possibly cost me a match or two when I just couldn't find the black mana to cast him. Oblivion Ring comes out for Vindicate, as the latter is plainly a better card.

The singleton Mirran Crusader has also been good to me by being a good roadblock against Zoo and Goblins while also being awesome with any equipment. Currently wanting to increase the amount to two, but I cant find room maindeck to do so.

My sideboard if focused on combo decks which are rough matchups. I have managed to beat Dredge and ANT using a combination of sideboard- and maindeck hate, but I still wouldn't call these matchups favourable. In the future I would like some solutions to storm-combo maindeck, but it would need to be a flexible answer. I am currently leaning towards using Phyrexian Revoker but I am not sure what to cut for him. Against storm-combo he will usually name Lion's Eye Diamond to attempt to slow them down while I put on some damage.