[Article] A Real Look at Legacy Deck Costs 2011Q2

[JACO]

Are you looking to get into Legacy, or are you looking to build up your Legacy collection or expand it a bit? If you’re just jumping in or seeking those last few staples for the decks you might want to play, you’ll no doubt find that prices are rapidly rising.

There has been an influx of new Legacy players across the globe as places like SCG and Wizards of the Coast and other large European tournament organizers have started really supporting Legacy by organizing what have turned into regular or semi-regular huge tournaments with attractive prizes. This has driven up demand, and along with it prices across the board for most things that rotated out of old Standard and Extended formats and have become staples of the surging Legacy landscape. Among the gnashing of teeth and speculation of the future of Legacy, a lot of people have been wondering, debating, and generally astonished at what it costs now to build a Legacy deck. So join Eternal Central as we dive in to analyzing the real costs of building a Legacy deck in 2011Q2.

http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=1462

In the article I link a spreadsheet which breaks down the sreet price of over 30 common decks in Legacy. If you have suggestions or request for specific decks to be added we’d love to hear from you in the comments section below or in the forums. Please let me know what you thought. Thanks for reading!

[Eksem]

Cool, I can build the two most expensive decks in the format. No wonder I have been doing so good at tournaments lately!

---

All kidding aside, nice data to have available for cost-discussions. Great job.

[SpikeyMikey]

This is good data to have. I use spreadsheets daily, so I know how much work goes into setting something like that up. It's definitely appreciated.

From reading the article, it sounds to me like you used the lowest prices available from a variety of sellers. Is it in fact the absolute lowball pricing or did you make any adjustments to the numbers? Because absolute lowball isn't an accurate representation of what your average person is paying. If you've got 5 recently ended auctions on EBay and the lowest is $55 and the other 4 are $62-$67, you can't say that everyone can get that card for $55; that particular data point falls pretty far out of the spectrum. So if those are averages (even weighted averages) of multiple sources, I think it's a useful article. If those are just the lowest prices you could find, then I don't think it's going to be of much use at all.

[cdr]

Yep, JACO is not clear where the prices he lists actually come from and I doubt those prices are realistic.

[Arsenal]

I'm assuming that this doesn't take condition into account other than the card must be tournament legal. If that's the case, these prices are completely reasonable and realistic. He cites a $55 Volcanic Island (again, assuming any tournament legal condition and Revised edition). I just ebay-ed, Buy It Now, and found a $59 Revised edition Volcanic Island in Excellent condition ready to ship.

However, if these prices assume that the cards are in Near Mint/Mint condition, I disagree with the prices that were cited. Clarify please?

[Koby]

I think the important point to make for this type of article is that this is just a guide!

Obviously anyone who is interested enough by the article to act should do their own research and find what's within their budget.

[Richard Cheese]

Can someone please point me to all the $57 Tarmogoyfs?

[Arsenal]

Can someone please point me to all the $57 Tarmogoyfs?

Ebay, as of 11:00am CST on 4-18-11, has a 59.99 BIN w/ Free Shipping, and a $59.50 BIN w/ Free Shipping.

[CorpT]

This makes me want to start playing on MODO again. I can get a reasonable deck and start winning from there. Thanks!

[sdematt]

The new infinite money Stax list needs to be up there, as well as 43 lands.

-Matt

[JACO]

This is good data to have. I use spreadsheets daily, so I know how much work goes into setting something like that up. It's definitely appreciated.

From reading the article, it sounds to me like you used the lowest prices available from a variety of sellers. Is it in fact the absolute lowball pricing or did you make any adjustments to the numbers? Because absolute lowball isn't an accurate representation of what your average person is paying. If you've got 5 recently ended auctions on EBay and the lowest is $55 and the other 4 are $62-$67, you can't say that everyone can get that card for $55; that particular data point falls pretty far out of the spectrum. So if those are averages (even weighted averages) of multiple sources, I think it's a useful article. If those are just the lowest prices you could find, then I don't think it's going to be of much use at all.Most of the prices are averages. For example, both the MOTL price guide and ApathyHouse's price guides are useful because they each use a seperate algorithm trending recently completed eBay auctions to create average prices for a card. In some cases (like Underground Sea) I'll double check eBay myself for the most recent data and make a slight adjustment. In that case Underground Sea was listed at $95.xx, but I was seeing most of them go for around $100, so I made the manual bump myself with what I felt was more realistic.


I'm assuming that this doesn't take condition into account other than the card must be tournament legal. If that's the case, these prices are completely reasonable and realistic. He cites a $55 Volcanic Island (again, assuming any tournament legal condition and Revised edition). I just ebay-ed, Buy It Now, and found a $59 Revised edition Volcanic Island in Excellent condition ready to ship.

However, if these prices assume that the cards are in Near Mint/Mint condition, I disagree with the prices that were cited. Clarify please?Prices are just an average for what I feel are tournament worthy cards. Most cards on eBay, people's binders, and even many online sellers are not truly Near Mint (unplayed from a pack, essentially). If you're buying them to play these prices are realistic. If you're buying them to collect in a binder gathering dust somewhere many of the prices are accurate, but thats not the target audience for this article. ;) Volcanic Island in particular is the strangest of all of the dual lands. There are a lot of sub-$50 Volcanics out there to complement the $60 ones. $55 is the average and very realistic, but if you are even remotely patient you can probably score them for $50 each.


Can someone please point me to all the $57 Tarmogoyfs?This took me all of two minutes:
1 Tarmogoyf $56.00 - http://cgi.ebay.com/Tarmogoyf-Future-Sight-MTG-/150590664487
1 Tarmogoyf $51.06 - http://cgi.ebay.com/Mtg-x1-Tarmogoyf-Future-Sight-Lightly-Played-/130507164680
1 Tarmogoyf $53.00 - http://cgi.ebay.com/Mtg-1x-Tarmogoyf-Future-Sight-/260765697141
1 Tarmogoyf $52.99 - http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-Tarmogoyf-Future-Sight-NM-M-/220764486396
4 Tarmogoyf $219.50 - http://cgi.ebay.com/4x-Tarmogoyf-x4-Future-Sight-MTG-Magic-SP-NM-/160569419172
4 Tarmogoyf 214.50 - http://cgi.ebay.com/4-MTG-Tarmogoyf-Future-Sight-Rare-SP-/110670564995
1 Tarmogoyf $56.00 - http://cgi.ebay.com/Tarmogoyf-NM-mtg-Futuresight-green-creature-Lhurgoyf-/230605175920
1 Tarmogoyf $50.00 - http://cgi.ebay.com/Magic-Gathering-Tarmogoyf-rare-card-/160571750939
4 Tarmogoyf $227.50 - http://cgi.ebay.com/Tarmogoyf-4x-Future-Sight-Rare-Mtg-Magic-Legacy-/110669888914
4 Tarmogoyf $227.50 - http://cgi.ebay.com/4x-TARMOGOYF-HuGe-MTG-SaLe-/170622698057
1 Tarmogoyf $56.55 - http://cgi.ebay.com/1x-MTG-Tarmogoyf-Future-Sight-MINT-/250797178810

There are a TON of Tarmogoyfs out there, with most ranging in price from $55-60 each. You should have zero trouble getting Tarmogoyf at the estimated price range.


The new infinite money Stax list needs to be up there, as well as 43 lands.

-MattMatt, hit me with some decklists and sources via email or PM and I'll add them for the next update. Thanks!

[teliot]

I play my own version of a Lands deck online and would be interested in seeing data for one of the 43 land variants. It's pretty expensive online but in paper I can only assume it's price is off the charts (Tabernacle?).

Below is the version I play, though it's not necessarily the standard.


1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
4 Brainstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Exploration
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Intuition
1 Island
4 Life from the Loam
2 Lonely Sandbar
3 Manabond
3 Maze of Ith
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mox Diamond
2 Smokestack
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Tolaria West
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Zuran Orb

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nature's Claim
3 Spell Pierce
3 Tormod's Crypt

[sdematt]

I'll PM lists within the next couple of days! :)

-Matt

[JACO]

I'll try to incorporate some Lands.dec lists in the next few days. I have my own versions, but those aren't necessarily what others play. It seems like there isn't really a consensus version out there, so if anybody has any ideas for a 'regular' version that's top shelf right now let me know.

UPDATES 04/18/2011:
- The price for Thoughtseize was linked wrong on the 'Team America (Confidant)' tab (was showing $48; linked to Savannah mistakenly; now linked correctly at $17), dropping the price of paper version of 'Team America (Confidant)'
- The price for Noble Hierarch was linked wrong on the 'Bant (Zenith NOPro)' tab (was linked to Preordain rather than Hierarch; now linked correctly at $4 MTGO $10 paper), increasing the price of both MTGO and paper version of 'Bant (Zenith NOPro)'

I have updated both the spreadsheet and the table here with the updated prices. If you see any other errors with the cross-linking please let me know and I'll get them fixed ASAP. Thanks!

[mchainmail]

I'll try to incorporate some Lands.dec lists in the next few days. I have my own versions, but those aren't necessarily what others play. It seems like there isn't really a consensus version out there, so if anybody has any ideas for a 'regular' version that's top shelf right now let me know.

Without being too self-centered, I think my version is the "standard" build for traditional 43 Lands, and at least puts you in the ball-park.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21390_Enlightened_Tutor_Lands_A_Complete_Primer.html

It's actually really reasonable on MTGO, relatively speaking.

[raye]

The Canadian Threshold tab seems to have Volcanic Islands at $10 each.

[supachai]

The Stoneforge Bant list has Sword of Fire and Ice/Light and Shadow both at under 10 dollars. Might have been possible a couple months ago, but SoFI is well over 30 and SoLS is around 20. Also, I don't think something like Tabernacle is necessary in the list and skews the actual cost of the deck.

[SpikeyMikey]

Very useful spreadsheet then. Looking at Bant prices makes me very glad I asked you to trade my Rock stuff for my Bant stuff. I trade about as well as old people fuck. I owe you a hooker and a steak...

[dahcmai]

I found the cheap decks interesting. Never knew burn was really that cheap. It's surprising that Dredge has never really gained much in price since it's inception. You'd think it would have considering it's cards are mostly from Ravnica.

It will be cool to have the really heavy hitters in there like Lands, richmanStax, or even that funky Eldrazi thing I see on Modo here and there. It's a pretty expensive deck on paper to be sure. If anything, I haven't seen a rich man stax list in a while. Bet that ones expensive as hell anymore.

[Uly Van Hammer]

SCG will get wind of this and start pricing Gogari Grave Troll at $15!

Hoard, Hoard, Hoard!

[vilik]

Great work, thanks.

Just a minor nitpick: the UB Tendrils Storm /w Grim Tutor popularized by Ari Lax has listed 4x Underground Sea, wheras the "optimal" decklist should have it only 2x. Add 2x blue fetch. More fetches feed Cabal Ritual and make you Wasteland immune.

Cheers,

- Vilik

[Zoomer3989]

Why was Moat listed as $1 in paper, along with Chain Lightning listed at $5 in paper? They've never been that low. Also, Karakas at $25 I've never seen.

[JACO]

The Canadian Threshold tab seems to have Volcanic Islands at $10 each.Noted, and fixed in today's update.


The Stoneforge Bant list has Sword of Fire and Ice/Light and Shadow both at under 10 dollars. Might have been possible a couple months ago, but SoFI is well over 30 and SoLS is around 20. Also, I don't think something like Tabernacle is necessary in the list and skews the actual cost of the deck.Noted, and fixed in today's update.


Great work, thanks.

Just a minor nitpick: the UB Tendrils Storm /w Grim Tutor popularized by Ari Lax has listed 4x Underground Sea, wheras the "optimal" decklist should have it only 2x. Add 2x blue fetch. More fetches feed Cabal Ritual and make you Wasteland immune.Noted, and fixed in today's update.


Why was Moat listed as $1 in paper, along with Chain Lightning listed at $5 in paper? They've never been that low. Also, Karakas at $25 I've never seen.Noted, and fixed in today's update. Also, the tab with the $25 Karakas was not supposed to be present and has been deleted entirely (it was correct on all other tabs where it appears).

UPDATES 04/20/2011:
- The price for paper Volcanic Island was linked wrong on the 'Canadian Threshold' tab (was showing $10; now linked correctly at $55), increasing the price of paper version of 'Canadian Threshold'
- The prices for SoFI and SoLS was linked wrong on the 'Bant (Stoneforge Tempo)' tab (now linked correctly at 13 MTGO $30 paper and 11.5 MTGO $25 paper, respectively), increasing the price of both MTGO and paper version of 'Bant (Stoneforge Tempo)'
- Added source information for 'Bant (Stoneforge Tempo)' list, as this was Ben Wienburg's exact list from a couple of events ago (hence the Tabernacle in the sideboard, even though it's unneeded in that list)
- The price for MTGO and paper MOAT on 'CounterTop Thopter (Guibault)' were not linked correctly (now correctly linked), increasing 'CounterTop Thopter (Guibault)'
- The price for paper Chain Lightning was wrong, and has been updated resulting in slight increase in price of the paper Zoo and Burn decks
- Changed manabase slightly for both 'ANT (UB no Grim Tutor' and 'ANT (UB with Grim Tutor)' lists to drop to 2 Underground Seas and another fetchland and basic, as this seems more common in the lists we're seeing in Top 8's the past few months, resulting in a price drop of both MTGO and paper versions of 'ANT (UB no Grim Tutor' and 'ANT (UB with Grim Tutor)'
- Deleted 'Death and Taxes' tab, which was not updated at all with modern decklist or prices; this will be revistited later during the next update with more decks

I have updated both the spreadsheet and the table here with the updated prices. If you see any other errors with the cross-linking please let me know and I'll get them fixed ASAP. Someone on EC suggested using the VLOOKUP function and in the future that's probably how I'll rework this in the future for fewer clerical errors. Keep the recommendations and comments flowing!

[raye]

Stoneforge Mystics listed under the Bant (Stoneforge Tempo) tab are listed at $0.50 on paper.

Under Enchantress, Replenish is listed as $0.01 for paper.

[Happy Gilmore]

I really don't know where you are getting these numbers from.

As of this very moment I can purchase all 40 Dual lands for $458. I can't figure out how your prices can vary so much.

My price check comes from Marlon MTGO, the biggest dealer in the whole digital magic world.

In comparison the same 40 duals costs $2965.83 With tax on Starcitygames (Using SP prices).

The cost is nearly 600% increase for the duals alone. I'm not sure what is going on, but the math doesn't Jive.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Jaco's list puts a value of $446 on an online playset of all duals. The main cost he attributes to online decks seems to come from other cards like Wastelands, Goyfs, Jace, LED and Force of Will.


And unless I'm missing something, Starcity doesn't sell online cards.

[Bardo]

The Stoneforge Bant list has Sword of Fire and Ice/Light and Shadow both at under 10 dollars. Might have been possible a couple months ago, but SoFI is well over 30 and SoLS is around 20.

:eyebrow:

http://www.blackborder.com/cgi-bin/prices/ex_prodshow.cgi?prodid=17437&sid=wklmQZYCKJ

I can't believe that. Every day, I wonder whether I should be helping on the supply side of the Legacy card price problem...

[Gocho]

Hey Jaco,

it's a huge work, and I think that I can help you to make it a little more easy. I would use the Affinity page for example.
I can see that you referees to the staples page with: =Staples!B93 ((Tezzeret in C11)

This works, but it needs that you put it manually in the cell, search manually for the Row of the current card and break all the pages when you resort the staples page. It would be better if you uses the VerticalLookUp formula. Put this in the C11 cell of Affinity page:

=VLOOKUP($B11;Staples!$A$2:$C$255;2;false)

The formula search for the text in B11 of the current page (Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas) in the Array A1:C255 of the Staples page, get the value in the 2nd column and return it. True says that the first column is sorted to find it faster, but i choose to put false so it gives you #N/A if the staple isn't in the staples page. I put A1:C255 so you can add more staples.

You can copy and paste it in every C Column of the decks pages, changing the first value (B11) for the current row (B2, B3, B4...), and you only need to change the staples page to let the spreadsheet sorted. You never linked wrong any prices if you put the correct cardname. If you put it in the first C cell and paste in all C column, the program autochange the first value.

If you need the Paper Cost price the formula is this:
=VLOOKUP($B11;Staples!A$2:C$255;3;false)

Almost the same, but you say that it get the 3rd column value of the A2:C255 array.

The drawback is that you need to add every staple to the staples page, but it could be made fast and you have a spreadsheet ready to add more decks easily.

If you need any help, ask for it.

[JACO]

I really don't know where you are getting these numbers from.

As of this very moment I can purchase all 40 Dual lands for $458. I can't figure out how your prices can vary so much.

My price check comes from Marlon MTGO, the biggest dealer in the whole digital magic world.

In comparison the same 40 duals costs $2965.83 With tax on Starcitygames (Using SP prices).

The cost is nearly 600% increase for the duals alone. I'm not sure what is going on, but the math doesn't Jive.I'm not sure what your point is about a 600% cost increase of dual lands between MTGO and paper. What is the point of that? We're talking about two different things. If you read the article you'll see where I sourced prices from. I merely included MTGO prices as a reference point for people who play Legacy on MTGO, and typically SuperNovaBots is the cheapest. But I do recognize that prices fluctuate, and on MTGO they tend to fluctuate daily.

For MTGO this as simple as searching MTGO “bots” and vendors such as SuperNovaBots (often the cheapest), MTGOTraders, CardHoarder, ABUMTGO, or any others you prefer. For paper Magic this means searching sites such as MOTL, eBay, CardShark, MKM, SCG, ABU, and other online vendors. The big online stores will occasionally have the best deal on a card, but more often than not you will get the best bang for your buck on eBay or MOTL for paper cards. A couple of valuable tools in gauging street prices are the MOTL Sales forum, the MOTL price guide (which averages out recently completed eBay items), ApathyHouse (which does the same with a slightly different algorithm), and eBay recently completed items themselves, which is often a good source for more granular information or to research specific up and down trends and hard to find items (foreign, foil, promo, etc.).



And unless I'm missing something, Starcity doesn't sell online cards.That's correct, StarCity doesn't, but I didn't say I was using SCG prices for online cards. ; )

For MTGO this as simple as searching MTGO “bots” and vendors such as SuperNovaBots (often the cheapest), MTGOTraders, CardHoarder, ABUMTGO, or any others you prefer.



Hey Jaco,
use VLOOKUPI will be using VLOOKUP for the next version, probably next quarter (after Bazaar of Moxen and SCG Indy) when I redo this (and after the format and decks are significantly changed by Mental Misstep).