[SCD] Windfall

[perm]

Windfall
Sorcery 2U
Each player discards his or her hand, then draws cards equal to the greatest number of cards a player discarded this way.
I am trying to understand why this is banned but Time Spiral became unbanned.

[Bignasty197]

I'll assume because it costs half the mana that Time Spiral does. Just my first thought.

[perm]

I'll assume because it costs half the mana that Time Spiral does. Just my first thought.

I even copy pasted the rules text to make reading it super simple. Just set it and forget it!

Try reading what it actually does, hot shot.

[dahcmai]

Mainly due to a monster of a vintage deck that could kill turn 1 around 95% of the time even pushing through a Force of Will. It was one stupid deck. It played 4 Windfalls, Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, and a host of other goodies. It basically just hit you with an Abeyance, then proceeded to draw up your deck. It was easily the best deck ever. It was also one of the most short lived.

A ton of cards were banned from Legacy and restricted in Vintage at the same time to curb the "god deck" as it was called. Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Tolarian Academy, Windfall, Time Spiral, Stroke of Genius, Tinker, and even Dream Halls and Mind over Matter took the hit for being close to being replacements in the deck. Combo was crushed pretty hard all at once.

Either way, Windfall is fairly broken. It's basically a draw 7 for any deck that can dump out a ton of mana easily and quickly. Not likely to ever see that one back in Legacy.

[rufus]

I am trying to understand why this is banned but Time Spiral became unbanned.

It can easily be a draw 7 for 2:u:

[Amon Amarth]

I even copy pasted the rules text to make reading it super simple. Just set it and forget it!

Try reading what it actually does, hot shot.

Oh the irony! Did you ever try reading the card? Windfall is a draw 7 with no drawback. For 3 mana. Splashable. There ya go.

[perm]

Oh the irony! Did you ever try reading the card? Windfall is a draw 7 with no drawback. For 3 mana. Splashable. There ya go.
he insinuated that the card was time spiral, but for half the mana and no untap (that card is timetwister)

[LOurs]

Test a deck windfall in a spring tide build or in a UB.dec running 4 windfall / 4 liliana caress. You will have a good example of why it is still broken imo.

[Gheizen64]

Time Spiral require much more setup and 4 land into play to go off, Windfall is much easier to incorporate in storm builds as a meditate that draw usually 5~6 cards. Just no.

[(nameless one)]

I wouldn't be surprised if he posts another thread with the title: [SCD] Land Tax or [SCD] Frantic Search. I mean s/he already did Memory Jar (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20534-[SCD]-Memory-Jar).

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I would like Frantic Search! pushing spiral tide ftw!

[Admiral_Arzar]

I'm on the fence about this one. While it's definitely significantly more balanced than Memory Jar or any of the other cards that guarantee you seven card (Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune) it's still a lot of draw power for 3 mana. Unlike Meditate, it's also a sorcery, which means it can be wished for with Burning Wish. I mean, Slithermuse can often draw you seven cards for only one more mana (and nobody ever talks about that card), but it's not a sorcery and is more conditional. I'm not sure how the format would adjust to this being available as a 4-of, we could see Storm decks that don't require Ad Nauseum or Doomsday, which would be interesting but probably kind of ridiculous.

[Doomsday]

perm your next thread should be about Yawgmoth's Bargain or Tinker.

[(nameless one)]

perm your next thread should be about Yawgmoth's Bargain or Tinker.

No man, Yawgmoth's Will is the way to go!

[Volrath]

No man, Yawgmoth's Will is the way to go!

Actually i would love Yawgmoth's Bargain to return... It's one of my favorite cards ever..

But yes, Perm has yust shown us the art of trolling.

[Dark Ritual]

Because going burning wish, crack LED in response, this card nets you 7 fresh cards? This card is ridiculous with LED; it will never be unbanned, that I'm sure. Drawing 7 for 3 is one of the most powerful effects in the game and it doesn't cost double blue or anything the card only costs 1 blue and 2 colorless so it's sooooooo much better.

Wait, maybe the next one will be on tolarian academy lol that card is so busted. A deck with 4 copies of academy can go right through 4 force of will's lol.

[Grollub]

Wait, maybe the next one will be on tolarian academy lol that card is so busted. A deck with 4 copies of academy can go right through 4 force of will's lol.
So can a deck with 4 High Tide. ;-)

But yeah, Windfall will never come off the list - 'least not unless they suddenly ban all fast mana, and even then it's probably still a stretch...

[Dark Ritual]

A deck with 4 high tide's usually doesn't have 4 cards force of will'd in a single game though.

If they banned all the fast mana in the format to unban windfall it would be the stupidest move ever. Windfall would be fine if there was no fast mana in the format but really you would practically kill off combo as an archetype because there would be no fast mana to abuse windfall.

[Julian23]

No man, Yawgmoth's Will is the way to go!

I call Black Lotus, you heared it here first.

No really. Everyone who ever played Academy.dec knows about the power of Windall. And you don't even need Academy etc. to make Windfall work in Legacy because there's LED.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

I wouldn't be surprised if he posts another thread with the title: [SCD] Land Tax or [SCD] Frantic Search. I mean s/he already did Memory Jar (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20534-[SCD]-Memory-Jar).

Land Tax isn't busted as hell, though, as opposed to Frantic Search.

[perm]

Land Tax isn't busted as hell, though, as opposed to Frantic Search.
Frantic Search is only "busted" because of high tide effects, it's just a freeish instant careful study

also, i wasn't posting a thread considering unbanning memory jar, lol, just discussing it

[honestabe]

Its banned because Ad Nauseam doesn't need another ridiculous form of card advantage

[perm]

Its banned because Ad Nauseam doesn't need another ridiculous form of card advantage

it's definitely banned because it would just make combo more broken, but frantic search is by no means card advantage

[Jeff Kruchkow]

it's definitely banned because it would just make combo more broken, but frantic search is by no means card advantage

In a combo deck like Ad Nauseam or High Tide, the card selection from Frantic Search is card advantage. In a combo deck where there are most definitely cards that are useless or bad on the combo turn, trading 2 lands and Search for 2 useful cards is card advantage.

[Inkwizition]

Frantic Search isn't card advantage? Noob status, imo.

Just a little experiment:

1. Count cards in hand

2. Play Frantic Search

3. Count cards in hand.

[Ubiquitous Druid]

Cards in hand in is not the only measure of "Card Advantage." By using your own criteria:
1. Count cards in hand
2. Play Wrath of God
3. Count cards in hand.
Oh My God! Wrath of God is card disadvantage.

It's how Frantic Search progresses the game state of the deck that's playing it by either:
A. Putting cards you want in the graveyard, in the graveyard
B. Letting you see more cards and getting rid of less useful ones
C. Untapping lands
D. Adding to storm count
E. A, B, C, and D

[Doomsday]

I think although we all understand that this thread is terrible, you can't argue that Frantic Search is card advantage if you actually know what card advantage means.

[(nameless one)]

This thread is as moot as that 'help me pick a name (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20667-Help-me-pick-a-name)' thread or the kittens naming thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12439-No-more-hot-pussies-Part-Deux&highlight=Anus+mittens).

[4eak]

Single Card Discussion threads must follow the criteria outlined in the site rules. This thread failed.