Hatebear Stompy Brainstorming

[ivanpei]

With the printing of Mental Misstep, Chalice Stompy decks will definitely be pretty effective at taking down Misstep Running decks (+ 4 dead cards). Dragon Stompy and Faerie Stompy are all pretty well established decks. I feel that these decks have some consistency issues like all Stompy decks do. If you deal with the lock pieces, the deck ends up being a bad Equipment Stompy deck. There are simply too few game ending/swinging threats in those colours. I also realised that white has a bunch of hate bears that have alot of synergy:

The Bears:

4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Phyrexian Revoker

Are all very useful bears that messes with the opponent's mana. These cards have the potential to be devastating in conjunction with Trinisphere in locking down an opponent's fetchlands and spells.

The Hate:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

Chalice is obviously the best card in a Stompy deck and Trini is usually not very good on the draw, but in this build it is a key lock down piece to keep the opponent from playing spells. Trini along with Arbiter/Mindcensor/Wasteland/Revoker can keep the opponent from playing any spells.

The Flex and Finishers:
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Elspeth
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Baneslayer Angel

Oblivion Ring is a great all around answer and Elspeth/Jitte are obviously great game swingers. Baneslayer may look out of place but she is a monster. If you've played her in Standard, you'll know how swingy she is. She just wins games, period. Drop her against any aggro deck and they're going to find it hard to race her.

The Mana:
4 Mox Diamond
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Plains

Manabase is pretty straightforward. Diamond instead of Chromes because the deck has insufficient white cards and I want to run Sol lands + Wastelands + 12 plains.

Is this crap? Maybe, but I think that Elspeth + Baneslayer >> Gathan Raiders, Rakdos Pit Dragon, Sea Drake, Serendib Efreet. Power Creep has really weakened previously powerful creatures as modern monsters like KOTR, Stalker and Goyf are just plain bigger. Baneslayer can race any of these monsters and O-ring is the ideal removal spell in this kind of deck. It can take out Vials (when your aim is to mana screw/lock them) and other threats that other Stompy decks can't. Elspeth is quasi equipment and also a nightmare for control decks. A pumped Baneslayer will also win any damage race! Thoughts?

[TheSleeper]

Angel Stompy is already a deck and the thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2635-%5BDeck%5D-Angel-Stompy) could probably use a revival. I tried a few versions of it with hatebears (before Revoker) when Vengevine/Survival was dominating. I agree with you in that Baneslayer is underrated (it can race a Show&Tell'd Progenitus) and white has some nice hate bears as well as good evasion creatures at the goldilocks casting cost (2W).

[ivanpei]

I was looking for the Angel Stompy thread, thanks for the link. Glowrider seems pretty good. As the list is pretty tight? What do you think about Glowrider vs Arbiter? Also, does Glowrider stack with Trini, Making non-creatures 4 mana and above?

[_erbs_]

How about something like this..

Distruption [17]
3 suppression field
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
3 oblivion ring
3 cataclysm

Beaters [16]
4 leonin arbiter
3 phyrexian revoker
3 aven mindsensor
3 exalted angel
2 banselayer angel
1 eslpeth knight errant => can be 3rd baneslayer angel

Mana [27]
3 Mox Diamond
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Plains

@Glowrider
example an opponent casts lightning bolt under glowrider and trinishpere the cost is still 3 not 4.

[Koby]

does Glowrider stack with Trini, Making non-creatures 4 mana and above?

It only stacks if the spell being cast is already 3 cmc. Otherwise, Glowrider adds 1, then Trinisphere adds to make it cost 3, thus defeating the extra resistance effect. Same applies to Thorns of Amethyst and Sphere of Resistance (namesake effect).

[ivanpei]

That's what I thought too, so Glow + Trini is pretty much a non-bo eh? I prefer Arbiter because of this too. @ Erbs, I like Cataclysm, I thought about playing it for a while too, but Elspeth is not good with Cata, I think the Elspeth could definitely be a 3rd Slayer. Some of those plains should be flagstones too if you are running Cata. Suppression field been good for you? I should give it a try. I dunno about exalted angel though. 7 mana is alot. I'd prefer to be casting hate cards early game and a huge Baneslayer late game. Baneslayer + Cataclysm= Wet dreams. (Literally, I mean a hot Angel and Me alone in a post-apocalyptic world? I like)

[klaus]

4 cities seems greedy without crucible.

[ivanpei]

True, but I guess you could pitch extra cities to Mox if you draw too many of em. Maybe I'll swap a city for a plains. Cheers.

Edit: What about Windborn Muse? That looks like an insane Tax effect against Aggro. Probably belongs in the board.

[_erbs_]

That's what I thought too, so Glow + Trini is pretty much a non-bo eh? I prefer Arbiter because of this too. @ Erbs, I like Cataclysm, I thought about playing it for a while too, but Elspeth is not good with Cata, I think the Elspeth could definitely be a 3rd Slayer. Some of those plains should be flagstones too if you are running Cata. Suppression field been good for you? I should give it a try. I dunno about exalted angel though. 7 mana is alot. I'd prefer to be casting hate cards early game and a huge Baneslayer late game. Baneslayer + Cataclysm= Wet dreams. (Literally, I mean a hot Angel and Me alone in a post-apocalyptic world? I like)

suppression field is very good. as it stops the following:
• fetch lands
• 1st turn vial
• wasteland from your opponents so you could stabilize your mana
• equipments
• SDT
• pernicious deed
etc...

exalted angel can be casted in the morp form, thats why i added her. a 1st turn trini, 2nd turn morp, 3rd turn unmorph, 4th turn cataclysm is what the ideal play...

-1 leonin arbiter maybe add 1 crusible of worlds or 1 armageddon

yeah 3 flagstones would be nice.., i forgot to add them. hahaha

[Admiral_Arzar]

Mindcensor + Arbiter seems really redundant. Ethersworm Canonist might be better in the Arbiter slot IMO, although I think either of them will work. Glowrider + Trinisphere is a nombo yes, but remember that you won't always have Trinisphere, and Glowrider also attacks. It's worth looking into I think. Also, before anybody brings it up for the sake of nostalgia or whatever, Baneslayer >>>>>> Exalted. I'd much rather beat Tombstalker and race everything that's not Emrakul or Blightsteel than be able to morph, thank you very much. That's in addition to being able to take down things like gigantic Piledrivers without dying.

[ivanpei]

@ Admiral_Arzar I agree with you, Baneslayer >>>> Exalted Angel. I failed miserably in some goldfish testing. The deck falls on itself like a knife. Dragon Stompy has SSG and this deck doesn't, which makes a huge difference in the effectiveness of Trinisphere. To get that MAX use out of a sphere, you have to be on the play with Tomb/City+ Diamond in hand. This is not easy to do especially since you don't want to be playing a city of Traitors T1. I usually cast Trini on T2 and when on the draw, it was the absolute crap. My curve is also a shit-block and I can't really unload things quickly so I'm going to make some changes.

One thing I noticed is that I can't abuse Ancient Tomb fully on the 1st turn. Only Chalice and Revoker can be cast T1 off a tomb and Revoker is not great on the play T1 by going blind. Porcelain Legionnaire fits this T1 Tomb, dude go strategy nicely. But he really needs equipment to be any good. With a Jitte/Sword, the legionnaire becomes scary and even unequipped, he can first strike down fishies, goblins and kitties. Here's my equipment-centris list with minimum screw:

4 Chalice
4 Revoker
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Oring
2 Elspeth
1 Jitte
1 Sofi
4 Baneslayer

4 Mox Diamond
4 City
4 Tomb
12 Plains (Should I have some Karakas/Canopy/Flagstones in here)

What do you guys think about Karakas/Canopy in the MD? Or are just simple basics better? What about flagstones? The deck looks alot like Angel Stompy now and I'm fine with that. Chalice, Revoker and Mindcensor should still give combo fits and Trinis out of the board will rape them hard too.

[Barook]

If you run Stoneforge Mystic, I don't see any reason to not include Batterskull:

Batterskull :5:
Artifact - Equipment
Living weapon
Equipped creature gets +4/+4 and has vigilance and lifelink.
:3:: Return Batterskull to its owner's hand.
Equip :5:

It's a 4/5 Vigilance beater with lifelink that Mystic can both fetch and cheat into play. Due to being colorless, it's also easier to hardcast.

[ivanpei]

Nice catch, I'd probably trim a baneslayer for a batterskull. Being able to cast it off 2 Sol lands + another source is ridiculous. Any thoughts on Crucible? Or does it not further the Aggro plan as much. I'd probably keep a pair in the board as a Gas/Disruption bomb against control.

[LegacyDan]

Norn's Annex would be a nifty hoser, with the option of hitting the first or second turn.

[NecroYawgmoth]

...is this thread already dead?

The starting approach of this deck was really good... However, I think Batterskull just doesn't make the cut... You nearly never want to tutor it up. And Baneslayer is >>>> Batterskull.

A few Questions regarding to the deck:

1. Is Elspeth really worth it? Many players tend to autoattack PWs, and just as a Token-Generator Elspeth looks a bit meh =(

2. Is Mox Diamond really better than Chrome here? I can understand Opal in a 23-24 Lands Build with 4 Wastelands [included in the 23-24 lands ofc], but without that, or without any reuse of Wastelands IMO the standars 18-19 lands / Chrome Mox shell makes more spots for good mainboard cards.

@Ivanpei: What were the reasons to kick Wastes from the OP to your actual list?

3. While Porcelain Legionaire seems pretty good, and everyone likes him. What about Blade Splicer??? No love for him?

[makochman]

Trying to play devil's advocate.

IMO 2-drops and Stompy are almost mutually exclusive. Trinisphere makes you pay 3 mana instead of 2, and you can't drop a Chalice@2, which is something you want to do against certain decks, e.g. Junk.

Another criticism would be that the deck will topdeck very poorly. Of course this is true of all Stax and Stompy decks, but actual Stompy is supposed to win before topdecks start to matter, and Stax can afford poor topdecks while the opponent is already locked out of the game. This deck in its current shape tries to do both, but I'm afraid it won't be very good at either.

@ Blade Splicer

Irrelevant in this thread, but I want to put her in a Mimic Vat in Standard.

[NecroYawgmoth]

Well... Dragon Stompy plays Revoker Jitte, and some play Kargan Dragonlord. Green Chalice Aggro plays Tarmogoyf AND 1 mana elves...

I don't see Chalice being that bad with only Revokers and SF-Mystic as 2 drops...

[Mr. Safety]

I could see doing this 2 ways, but this is my own personality talking:

1) Aether Vial instead of Chalice. You could play both together, but If you land t1 Chalice (like you want) your Vial's get really bad. The upside is that Vial + Trinisphere is really solid. You could land a turn 1 Vial, then concentrate on Wasteland/Swords/Weathered Wayfarer until you can land a Trinisphere. Ghostly Prison seems like a natural addition as well. I would want Momentary Blink effects so I could 'cheat' on the search function (so cards like Flickerwhisp and Momentary Blink would be needed...probably 3-4 slots dedicated to it.) Now you're getting so close to Death and Taxes...but with a Trinisphere focus.

2) White Weenie Hatebears - Honour of the Pure could be pretty hawt with a bunch of hatebears. Hatebears have always had a tendancy to stifle tempo/board development but finish the game too damn slowly. Board pumps can help with that. Elspeth would be great here, and possibly Cataclysm.

EDIT: I'm retarded, I should have read the whole primer...sorry!!!