[Deck] Krark-Clan Ironworks

[Stifle]

Krark-Clan Ironworks

I. What is this and where am I?

Pause. You are not high. You are not drunk. You are not seeing things. Or maybe you are.

But I'm trying to bring that old fringe combo deck in the days of Affinity summer some odd half a decade ago into the competitive format of Legacy.

II. Wait, why, Stifle? WHY?!

For nostalgia reasons. For shits and giggles. But mainly for the sake of creating a niche deck that may find a certain level of success in a specific metagame.

III. So chop it up then.

With the advent of the Scars block, MUD decks began to rise thanks to nifty artifacts such as Kudoltha Forgemaster. I began to observe what makes those type of decks into a success and realized the answer is because of stompy lands & mana acceleration. Next, I began to consider how I could abuse the quick mana ramp in different ways. After some contemplation, a friend randomly joked that he should play Krark-Clan Ironworks in Legacy. A mental light-bulb flickered on in my head and so I fused elements of the two together.

IV. Now show us your brew, dewd.

Lands: 20
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Academy Ruins

Artifacts: 25
4 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Opal
3 Thopter Foundry
3 Mox Diamond
3 Metalworker
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Krark-clan Ironworks
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Goblin Cannon
1 Myr Incubator

Spells: 15
4 Transmute Artifact
4 Thoughtcast
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Braingeyser

Sideboard: 15
4 Echoing Truth
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Kudoltha Forgemaster
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Myr Battlesphere

One thing that you may have noticed by now is the transformative sideboard. I like it when a deck is able to completely change modes after the first game. TRANSFORMERS ROBOTS IN DISGUISE DA DUN DA DA DUN.

V. What's that one card that I don't like doing in your seventy-five?

It's almost one in the morning as I type this and I'm delirious as hell. I'll elaborate on card discussions when I can.

Hope I've sparked enough interest to merit discussion and constructive feedback.

[Darkenslight]

Why use Banefire, when you can just use Blue Sun's Zenith?

Moreover, I'm guessing the use of the Incubator is for more fuel for the fire, as it were.

[perm]

banefire is uncounterable is my guess

[I am the brainwasher]

I tested a KCI version (which looks way more faster than this build, no offense) a few weeks ago because I was kinda in the mood to dust off the old T2 deck and tune it to Legacy to see if its still competetive...aaaand it isnt. Sry to disappoint but after testing against Goblins and beeing slower on the play turned me off the deck. A combo deck that need to fix its aggro-MU via sideboard is, lets say, kinda awkward.
I am still hoping to get the final thought that can make this deck competetive again but my mind hasnt been enlightened so far.
For everyone who is interested, I tested the following list:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Great Furnace
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ancient Den
2 Tree of Tales

4 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Talisman of Dominance
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Myr Incubator
1 Goblin Charbelcher

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

1 Banefire
4 Thoughtcast
4 Preordain
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Fabricate
4 Force of Will

The deck performed surprisingly well against Control/Aggro-Control cause the big number of mustcounters, the resistance to counterbalance and Force of Will. Against Aggro it was most of the times 1 turn to slow before whoopping ass with Incubator.
I came to the following conclusions:
-Tezzeret is THE BOMB in this deck, even if I think that he belongs in the sb against all non-aggro/combo decks, otherwise hes just too slow.
-The deck needs Grim Monolith, having a Cabal Rit isnt the worst IMO.
-Preordain is so much better than Brainstorm or Ponder in this deck. You dont have any fetches nor many shuffling effects that its worth to play another CC1 Cantrip. Preordain is perfectly fine here.
-Enlightened Tutor sucks hard because of virtual carddisadvantage and cant be pitched to force of will.
-The deck plays the best cardadvantage spells of the format (well nearly) in form of Thist for Knowledge and Thoughtcast and its card-quality is amazing, if the deck gets a full turn faster it CAN be competetive.

I think its possible to tune the deck and I am still working on it. I got the impression that the sideboard really needs to fix some MU, but is possible of doing so and I am looking forward to one of my favourite T2 decks beeing playable in Legacy.

-Greetings

[Admiral_Arzar]

I tested a KCI version (which looks way more faster than this build, no offense)

This build looks way slower than the OP because it has no Mox Diamond, no Grim Monolith, no Metalworker, and no Stompy manabase and instead plays awful acceleration cards from old T2. It also doesn't play Chalice, which is amazing when you have a ton of ways to drop it one turn one and no one-drops. T1 Chalice is exactly what this deck needs to slow aggro, although honestly this deck should be able to race aggro. The old T2 KCI killed on turn 3-4, and this build has access to far better accelerants.

To the OP: You may want to replace Intuition with Fabricate, as everything in this deck is an artifact. As for why Banefire over BSZ:

a. Only one colored mana
b. Uncounterable
c. Lethal at 19-21 mana, rather than 50+ mana

I would consider packing an artifact means of winning immediately (i.e. a Goblin Cannon) so you can Fabricate for the win if you can't wait to attack with dudes (sweepers, flying clock, whatever).



Moreover, I'm guessing the use of the Incubator is for more fuel for the fire, as it were.

Incubator most often will just make a horde of guys that get there, Empty the Warrens style. The old T2 lists would often play Goblin Cannon, so you make a bazillion dudes, Fabricate for Cannon, and then machine-gun your opponent for a ton of damage.

[I am the brainwasher]

"This build looks way slower than the OP because it has no Mox Diamond, no Grim Monolith, no Metalworker, and no Stompy manabase and instead plays awful acceleration cards from old T2. It also doesn't play Chalice, which is amazing when you have a ton of ways to drop it one turn one and no one-drops. T1 Chalice is exactly what this deck needs to slow aggro, although honestly this deck should be able to race aggro. The old T2 KCI killed on turn 3-4, and this build has access to far better accelerants."

-After finishing the post I also got the impression of beeing a bit overeager, people make mistakes, honesty helps here:wink:.
I ment not the goldfish mode but beeing a bit more resilient, which might be wrong allover but it seemed to me that way because of blanking the opposing deck for having 0 creatures in it and beeing able to interact with Force, even if the other one tries to do the same with Chalice@1&2. I think it needs more testing to compare both versions to make more competent statements and then it can be said which one is faster in terms of really resolving the combo and beeing successfull with it in front of different archetypes. As said above this list needs work and is different. I hope others dont take this the wrong way.
The list that was posted 1st looks a bit like Meandeck MUD which kills (or tries to do so) with Incubator instead of huge guys with evasion and it needs to be tested if its worth to going that route rather than play normal MUD-decks IMO.
Curious what combined work will point out, again I am not on the "my-list-is-soo-much-more-powerful" train.

[Darkenslight]

That's a point: why no Time Sieve for an 'instant' win? Add in some filter cards possibly (Chromatic Star preferably, as it draws a card going to the bin).

[Admiral_Arzar]

That's a point: why no Time Sieve for an 'instant' win? Add in some filter cards possibly (Chromatic Star preferably, as it draws a card going to the bin).

It might be worth a look, but honestly it's probably overkill. It does enable you to go drop a million dudes + attack, but you have to draw sieve or be able to tutor for it. It also costs two colored mana, which blows when you're just saccing artifacts for colorless.

I personally prefer something like Goblin Cannon as an alternate win because it gets around hate like Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, etc. And it's not like you can activate Time Sieve profitably without having activated a Myr Incubator - you just lose too many permanents.

[Richard Cheese]

Lands: 20
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod

Artifacts: 25
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Krark-clan Ironworks
4 Myr Incubator
3 Mox Opal
3 Mox Diamond
3 Metalworker

Spells: 15
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtcast
3 Intuition
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Banefire

Sideboard: 15
4 Echoing Truth
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Kudoltha Forgemaster
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Myr Battlesphere


Fixed.

[lorddotm]

Maybe I'm missing something, why do you have Intuition? Seems pretty much strictly worse than Fabricate.

Also, your plan on winning the game involves casting a 4 drop, saccing most of your board, casting a 6 drop and activating for 6. Seems a little loose against Stifle/Trickbind. You are assembling a 16 mana combo that doesn't win the game on the spot. Do you not see the problem with that? This deck honestly just seems terrible. I cannot imagine wanting to be sitting with this deck in a room full of Legacy decks.

PS.

Explain to me the rationale behind the Banefire. You have a grand total of 0 ways to get it into your hand from your deck.

[Stifle]

So I just woke up to find that I apparently made a thread on Krark-Clan Ironworks last night on mtgthesource.

Mulled things through in the thread and made some revisions.

Admiral_Arzar's idea on adding Goblin Cannon is probably the right call as it allows this deck to omit red in it's entirety since there's no use for it save the miser Banefire.

The initial mentality behind Intuition over Fabricate was that Intuition is instant speed but apparently that doesn't matter much in a deck where it can easily hit like 8 mana on the first few turns.

Also bumped the land count down to 16 in total and added some Trinispheres to add resilience and give this deck time to go off. It has the additional bonus of punishing decks with a low-curve. This may seem like a bad idea at first with all the Moxen in the deck but those typically hit play before Trinisphere. Haven't had an issue with the land count yet but it seems like it could happen.

Need suggestions on cards that will allow this deck to hit a blue mana source more consistently. And no, basic lands are not an option.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Need suggestions on cards that will allow this deck to hit a blue mana source more consistently. And no, basic lands are not an option.

I would play Chalice, but not T-Sphere as it makes topdecked mana sources bad. It's an option of sideboard though, especially as it's generally awful on the draw. As for blue mana, you could try Pentad Prism which somebody mentioned earlier I think. I remember playing that card in the standard version of this deck. Chromatic Star is also an option.

[GGoober]

Goblin Cannon is also tutorable with Forgemaster. Seems much better than Banefire (untutorable)

[I am the brainwasher]

Banefire and Goblin Charbelcher are useful outside the combo turn what might occur not that good/important but the testing showed that it really does a better job. I had games where I burned out the opponent via KCI and Banefire even without the Incubator and Belcher is also tutorable and wins directly if you play without City/Tombs and can be used the turns before and has killed some dudes what changed some game states, really.
Sure Banefire isnt tutorable but if you have the chance to do so just grab Belcher (or Cannon if you play with the 2 Mana lands) and win, no problem there IMO.
PS: Luv how actice this has become:smile:

[Pastorofmuppets]

You should probably have some method of making green mana without artifacts so you can have Krosan Grip for Null Rod, bro.

[AllIsDust]

Doug Mckay has a KCI deck that uses the thopter combo as his kill condition, he also uses Transmute artifact

[Stifle]

I'm unsure about the thopter combo because it seems to deviate with the core of this deck but if you could provide a decklist, it'd be very much appreciated.

Transmute Artifact sounds like a fantastic idea and it seems like an optimal choice to replace with in the fabricate slot.

Currently posting this at work so I'll do some tweaking and playtesting with it when I get back.

[4eak]

I love KCI (played it a ton when standard legal), but this deck rolls over to permission (a set of your own FoWs isn't enough). And, if you can't drop'n'pop Incubator on the same turn, it also rolls over to artifact hate (which has seen an increase in play lately). This deck doesn't stand much of a chance against someone who knows how to play against it. Even in fairly specialized metagames, I expect most decks to beat this as it is.

Don't hear me discouraging work on it though -- far from it. Incubator (although maybe not KCI) really might have a niche, I just think a lot more work will need to be done to find the deck in which it belongs. Thopter Combo seems like a very good idea, especially with so much mana. You can't afford to be a 1-trick pony (Even Belcher.dec is a 2-trick pony). 1 Academy Ruins wouldn't be a bad thing either. I think Intuition's role must be strengthed in this deck if it is going to work. Goblin Welder also merits consideration (despite your desire to run Chalice).


peace,
4eak

[Stifle]

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

I've taken much of your comments and applied it to this deck and in play-testing. It seems a lot more consistent and powerful with the Thopter-combo now that it's no longer a one-trick pony. This deck should no longer run Intuition/Fabricate seeing as how Transmute Artifact is a much better search engine and it even puts the artifact of choice in play for one less mana.

My latest changes include:

+3 Wasteland
+3 Thopter Foundry
+2 Sword of the Meek
+1 Academy Ruins

-3 Trinisphere
-3 Myr Incubator
-2 Krark-Clan Ironworks
-1 Chalice of the Void

Running Transmute Artifact made me question if a set of Myr Incubators/KCI is even necessary so I cut some copies out and use the KCI-combo as tutor targets instead since after the first one resolves, the extra copies are more or less dead cards.

Also loving the combo with KCI & Thopter-Sword. Infinite life + Infinite tokens? HELLZ YEAHHHHH

[Darkenslight]

Also loving the combo with KCI & Thopter-Sword. Infinite life + Infinite tokens? HELLZ YEAHHHHH

Isn't it also infinite mana?

1) Sac a token for 2;
2) Sac Sword to the Foundry;
3) Get Sword back; (1 mana in pool)
4) Repeat Ad Nauseam

[Sturtzilla]

Greetings All,

Stifle, I was wondering if the list at the top of the page is the most recent version of the deck? If not would mind posting your new, most current decklist? I just stumbled upon this thread and really enjoyed the read. I too used to play KCI in standard and I wouldn't mind tweaking my build a bit and surprising some friends with it.

EDIT: Is there a specific reason that Braingeyser is on the list? Wouldn't it be better to be able to draw at instant speed with like Stroke of Genius?

[Wrong Trousers]

Hi Folks,

I don't often post but I thougt I would bring my decklist to the fore for potencial discussion improvement, so here it is:

4 KCI
1 Semblance Anvil
4 Ichor Wellspring
4 Elsewhere flask
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Kaleidostone
4 Tsabo's Web
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Open the vaults
4 SDT
3 Grim Monolith
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 ThopterFoundry
3 Mox Opal

4 Ancient Den
3 Crystal Vein
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors

Try it out, it fun....