Probe Therapy

[Jabari]

So this isn't technically a deck so much as half of one. I really want to play these cards together, they seem like a really strong core I'm just struggling with deciding on the kill condition.

Here is the core I'm thinking about:


4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mental Misstep
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Bloodghast
3-4 Intuition
4 Force of Will


In my opinion Probe and Therapy combo into a pretty strong T1 play, I'm just struggling with a way to capitalize off of it. Maybe Stifle has a place in the deck but as is there is a LOT of disruption. Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Mirrislegend]

Tombstalker seems good, since you seem totally hellbent of filling your graveyard asap. Also, Brainstorm because you're playing blue.

[Jabari]

I originally had Brainstorm and Tombstalker listed in the core but I decided not to list them for some reason.

Would Reanimator possibly be a good shell?

[perm]

I think this has some potential, NPH brought us some cool toys. In addition to tombstalker how about 2+ persecutors? Since you play therapies.


Would Reanimator possibly be a good shell?
no, because reanimator sucks :)

[Drac]

Your deck is black based, you cannot afford to run too many win conditions, you are in 2 collor and you run intuition..

Id say the best win conditions for this deck would most likely be 4 Demigod of Revenge and 2 Jace's

If you wouild run 4 Intuition and 2 Jace TMS your blue count would be @ 18.

[Gui]

I'd play it more like The Gate, monoblack style. Bitterblossom is nuts with therapy. and then you can use Innocent Blood and play a couple of Abyssal Persecutors.
Nice catch btw.

[Guy I Don't Know]

You could play Dark Confidant and Trinket Mage. I think Mage for collar to suit up Bloodghast seems cool. Demigod and FOW in the same deck is difficult unless you are playing urborg. I would play some equipment definitely if you go bitterblossom and bloodghast. I think the next step is to find your 20+ spells you want to play for FOW

[Gui]

You could play Dark Confidant and Trinket Mage. I think Mage for collar to suit up Bloodghast seems cool. Demigod and FOW in the same deck is difficult unless you are playing urborg. I would play some equipment definitely if you go bitterblossom and bloodghast. I think the next step is to find your 20+ spells you want to play for FOW

He already has 15... 5 is not that hard... and he didn't even add Daze or Brainstorm to that list. He can also use Careful Study. And then he can play Reanimate just because it is good even out of Reanimator Shell.

I still think Persecutor, with innocent blood backup, is the right kill con call.

Also, everytime I think about UB, I think about Psychatog (and Lobotomy, but that's not the case)... xD

[Sims]

Instead of getting too fancy and trying to just fit Probe and Therapy into other decks, why don't we update a deck like Dump Truck? For Reference, Ben Rubins winning list from GP Anaheim:



4x Caves of Koilos
4x Flooded Strand
3x Island
2x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
2x Skycloud Expanse
2x Swamp
2x Underground River

3x Exalted Angel
4x meddling mage
4x Shadowmage Infiltrator

4x Brainstorm
3x Deep Analysis
3x Diabolic Edict
1x Disenchant
4x Duress
2x Peek
3x Seal of Cleansing
1x Smother
1x Tsabo's Web
4x Vindicate

sb//
4x Chill
3x Chrome Mox
1x Damping Matrix
1x Energy Flux
1x Lobotomy
1x Sphere of Resistance
1x Upheaval
3x Vampiric Tutor

Obviously and 8 year old extended decklist doesn't really carry a lot of weight in todays metagame, but I know back in 1.5 we did some development on updating the deck to the cardpool then (this was the era of Mana Drain and Workshop being in the format.)

Peek combined with Cabal Therapy and Meddling Mage proved strong, but the deck just wasn't as good as Drain fueled Illusions Donate or landstill crapping out decree tokens with Drain mana. However in this format without drain, we could probably make some kind of Dump Truck Redux deck that plays the synergy of maybe 4-6 Probe/Peek effects combined with Duress/Therapy/Mage as disruption, backed by some counter magic protection, hell we'd even have access to Counterbalance now if we wanted, with updated wincons. Jace 2.0, Tombstalker, Demigod/Baneslayer/Assorted-5-mana-kill-critters could all be used to seal the deal when you gain control of the game.

Does this idea have merit or does this new Peek just making me remember the days when "EOT Peek, main phase Meddlign Mage naming the card in your hand that's going to ruin my day" was a badass play?

[Barook]

@Sims: One problem with Meddling Mage is that Lackey/Vial and similiar stuff can get around it.

If you want to go with a denial strategy by making certain cards useless, Phyrexian Revoker seems good as well.

[Sims]

@Sims: One problem with Meddling Mage is that Lackey/Vial and similiar stuff can get around it.

If you want to go with a denial strategy by making certain cards useless, Phyrexian Revoker seems good as well.

True, though in theory that issue can be alleviated by Force of Will, Misstep, Plow/path, revoker as you mentioned, needle... though in practice I know that can be an entirely different story.

I dunno, it just seems like it could be a fun expiriment to try and update the concept to a current control deck. What the hell, I might try it even though I've got a feeling it might not be as strong as I'd like.

[Gui]

What do you suggest, Sims? These are a lot of ideas, I can't put it all together... This looks like to play the way "UBw Fish" used to play (don't ask me, I have no clue why the name was fish).

The idea is definitely good, but I still like Bitterblossom+Cabal Therapy and possibly Innocent Blood. Also, Psychatog as kill condition, Careful Study and Deep Analysis looks so good, all together. And, of course, up to 8 Peek effects (which can easily be a few Duress/Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek). Besides, with some acceleration like Mox Diamond -> 1st turn Meddling Mage nailing hole strategies. And also, Extirpate/Surgical Extraction with knowledge of hand gets better, since you can remove cards from hand.

So many options, nice Brainstorm.

[Sims]

Haven't quite gotten that far, at work at the moment and haven't had an opportunity to really start brainstorming or adapting the old shell. Was just throwing the idea out there to see if anyone else thought it had some merit.

I'll see if I can come up with something a bit later on tonight, if no one beats me to the punch.

[Jabari]

I like the idea of Demigod and would easily bump Intuition to 4 if we decided to go that route, the problem is the cost seems sooo prohibitive when we don't run any red sources. Also a card no one has mentioned yet but seems perfect for this deck - Vendillion Clique

@ Gui: In relation to Bitterblossom, I feel like in order to capitalize off of it we would need to run an Equipment suite. This begs for the inclusion of either SFM or Etutor. It doesn't necessarily force us to go into white but it is definitely a strong incentive. In which case StP and Vindicate would be easy inclusions. With such a low curve, except for FoW, this type of deck could use Bob.

As is there are 12 open slots in the deck (if Intuition is a 3-of) which means the remainder of the deck would fill out something like this:

3 Bitterblossom
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice


I don't really like the looks of that though, Intuition would probably be cut in such a list leaving FoW with far too low of a blue count. I think I'm leaning more towards the Tombstalker/Demigod kill condition.

4 Tombstalker
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Vendillion Clique
3 Doom Blade



I really like Phyrexian Revoker in the list and I think it has some potential.

Another option for the remaining 12 could be:

3 Trinket Mage
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Stifle
2 Vendillion Clique

I'm terribly indecisive, do any of these additions look favorable to anyone?

[eq.firemind]

I like the idea of UBW fish with Revokers, Meddling Mages+Probe+Therapy, Mother of Runes and countermagic to protect stuff and Mystic+equips as wincon (SoLaS can return creatures you sacced to Therapy).

[Jabari]

Would the Abyss or Damnation be worth any consideration?

[Draener]

No to abyss... you rely on creatures to win. Sure its great if you have bitter blossoms... but if you don't? You have no other win condition. Abyss really needs planeswalkers or manlands to be effective.

[Sims]

No to abyss... you rely on creatures to win. Sure its great if you have bitter blossoms... but if you don't? You have no other win condition. Abyss really needs planeswalkers or manlands to be effective.

Or artifact creatures. Just for reference, The Abyss does say "non-artifact creature."

[Atwa]

Or artifact creatures. Just for reference, The Abyss does say "non-artifact creature."

And it targets, so creatures with shroud are fine as well.