12goyf.dec

[JCLe]

So, this might have been the best idea i've had in awhile (probably better than trying to abuse Gustha's Scepter with Lion's Eye Diamond and Balancing Act).

The idea is this : Get Myr Superion into play with the help of man lands such as Mishra's Factory and Mutavault for consistency fixing. It makes it a virtual 3 mana cost if you have a Dryad Arbor or Noble Hierarch out.

Result : You get virtually 8 goyfs + 4 Green Sun's Zenith and a good amount of manlands/threats while keeping a high number of permission and a possible interaction with standstill. Dropping a turn 3-5 standstill with the low CC per threat can close out a game or put you ahead.

As for the testing, I don't trust MWS, and I only tested against like 3 different decks + random crap, at least I didn't lose too much so it passes the first test. I will be coming up with a better list tonight.

U/G seems fine for now but a Bant or RUG shell might be needed to help creature match ups, I don't know how good you can actually stall the board versus Knight tempo for example. Swords to Plowshares or Lightning Bolt might be needed.

I usually tune these decks better but for now it's pretty much random numbers thrown around (and some random cards, standstill might actually suck here, don't hate it too much for now), I will continue playing this for sure as it is pretty fun, just need to make sure it's viable. I really need to fit some sorceries (ponder is the obvious choice, something else might work) in there or goyfs stay too small against decks with none...


// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [GUR] Island
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [B] Tropical Island
2 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
4 [NPH] Myr Superion

// Spells
2 [NPH] Mental Misstep
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [NE] Daze
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith

Thanks for looking.

[Forbiddian]

Love the deck title :-P.

[JCLe]

Love the deck title :-P.

Of course, ironically U/W Tempo was the first deck I actually played seriously

[Barook]

Considering that you already run Wastelands and manlands, I would include about two copies of Crucible of Worlds.

If you splash white, KotR could fit into that shell as well.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Tarmogoyf isn't played because he's the best creature ever printed on the board, he's played because he's really easy to cast. By only having twelve dudes that can cast him, all of whom add to the total cost and are vulnerable to creature disruption, you take away this advantage. It's questionable what at all would be gained from this and why you wouldn't just straight up play 3-4cc guys that have more bonuses than being big dumb beaters, like Thrun or Wickerbough Elder or something, cards that could also be grabbed with Green Sun's Zenith too. For that matter, Knight of the Reliquary is just functionally the same cost and much better at being big dumb beats, besides grabbing utililands.

Myr Superion is just a smidgeon above Hunted Horror in terms of actual efficiency.

This is like playing Dream Cache and calling it "8 Brainstorm.dec"

[oblivion4560]

I was actually coming up with the same deck idea as soon as the Myr was spoiled, although I had one mechanic that clearly makes the deck worth running: Aether Vial. That card is a must add in this deck.

Turn 1: Island, Aether Vial. Daze the force or MM their MM. End of their turn, Vial in a Dryad Arbor since the Vial has 0 counters on it and it's a creature with 0cc.
Turn 2: Counter on Vial. Land, Goyf. End of their turn, Vial in a Noble Hierarch.
Turn 3: 2 Counters on Vial. Land, Cast Myr with Dryad and NH, cast Goyf with your other two lands, Vial in a third "Goyf".

Of course, that's quite the god hand, but Aether Vial offers so much in the deck. It Vials in Dryad Arbor for 0 creating mana ramp, and Myr is only worried about being cast, so Vialing it in at 2 counters is just fine.

Other ideas: adding a third color (W) wouldn't be terrible. I somewhat agree with KOTR, and I feel like STP has a place somewhere since there's no actual spot removal yet.
I'm not quite sure if Mutavaults and Mishra's Factories are the way to go. You need to turn them into creatures to make their mana work for Myr. I mean, the reason to play Myr is because it's 2cc for a 5/6. Having the arduous task of activating your lands to then cast Myr is a waste of time because that effectively turns it into a 4cc with nothing else special other than he's a dude, which legacy has no room for. 4cc's need to have more punch than just a body, such as Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Moat, etc.

Keep testing it out, and good luck!

[TsumiBand]

If GSZ would actually fetch the Myr, there might be something going on here. As it is, the manabase is at odds with itself in that you're stuck relying on Dryad Arbor and god forbid Mutavault to cast Myr Superion. I would almost rather ditch the Superion and be casting, like, Eladamri's Call; you want a billion access to Goyf apparently, and your other methods of casting the Superion are arguably at least as slow as just tutoring for Goyf and casting it turn 3.

I feel like with enough playtesting and changing around this deck would probably just turn into Yet Another WUG Aggro/Control thing with the usual Goyfs, KotR, the free coutner package, etc... because otherwise you're playing colors and a strategy which works only as proof of theory next to the usual Threshold or Bant stuff.

[perm]

So you end up casting superion for 4 via manlands?

[JCLe]

How many people don't understand that there is more than the man lands to put him into play? I haven't paid 4 to cast the myr once, but I guess if you're bad and can't use fetchlands or GSZ that's what you end up paying. God forbid them using removal on your dryad arbors, then your goyfs can live but we really don't want that happening do we.

On another note adding KOTR might be right, or maybe just jaces...

[RexFTW]

So, awesome idea: Elvish Spirit Guide is a creature that makes mana! TADA!

Also dont gorget about Lotus Cobra

This deck has been very successful for me, winning tons of tourneys. Maybe you could use this as a base for your new deck.


// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Dryad Arbor
16 Forest (1)

// Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Progenitus
4 Spawnwrithe
4 Noble Hierarch

// Spells
4 Natural Order
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith

// Sideboard
4 Choke
3 Creeping Corrosion
1 Trygon Predator
1 Loaming Shaman
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Dauntless Escort

[kiblast]

If I could choose the best thing to put into play when my Aether Vial is @2, I'd vial in Serra Avenger above everything else (in some situations Revoker).In addition Serra Avenger is actually playable from your hand without building an apposite sub par deck to accomplish this task, while Myr Superion is incredibly clunky to play. C'mon, this creature is crap.

[Mr_Miyagi]

Regarding Elvish Spirit Guide: It won't work when it comes to casting Myr Superion. It's counts as a creature card in hand, not a creature. In think Myr Superion is a weak card that only would work in a myr deck or something similiar, but this is just an opinion... so I could be wrong.

[Darkenslight]

Regarding Elvish Spirit Guide: It won't work when it comes to casting Myr Superion. It's counts as a creature card in hand, not a creature. In think Myr Superion is a weak card that only would work in a myr deck or something similiar, but this is just an opinion... so I could be wrong.

Vedalken Engineer? Missing a huge trick between this and Grand Architect.

[Mr. Safety]

Deck needs Aether Vials...that way your beats get into play uncountered and Myr Superion becomes your Goyfs #5-8. Green Sun's Zenith is likely the better route though, as it's got so much more potential at toolboxing.

If you want to play Superion, max out on Vials and add in hatebears. Seems solid to me that way, but this way seems like it's just dumb beats, and dumb beats without a stompy setup or control shell like Bant seems strictly worse than tribal aggro or zoo.

[Richard Cheese]

4x GSZ in a deck with only 10 targets?

[Mr_Miyagi]

Vedalken Engineer? Missing a huge trick between this and Grand Architect.

Sometimes synergies between obviously mediocre cards make a nice trick or combo. I'm still convinced that this isn't good enough. Although it might work if the majority of the deck is built around these interactions.

[JCLe]

Deck needs Aether Vials...that way your beats get into play uncountered and Myr Superion becomes your Goyfs #5-8. Green Sun's Zenith is likely the better route though, as it's got so much more potential at toolboxing.

If you want to play Superion, max out on Vials and add in hatebears. Seems solid to me that way, but this way seems like it's just dumb beats, and dumb beats without a stompy setup or control shell like Bant seems strictly worse than tribal aggro or zoo.

What do you cut for vials then? Just seems like a more clunky and card disadvantage way to put the Superion's into play, at least the manlands do something...

The problem also is as follows, you put vials in and you just become a bad vial deck, just like adding KOTR would do. This deck has more chances being a pseudo-supreme blue from earlier years than any of the modern tempo bant or vial decks. Goyfs are better walls than attackers against most matchup's, this is why Jace works better here, in combination with manlands etc, to win the Jace wars.


4x GSZ in a deck with only 10 targets?

Don't see why this matters, it ain't Force of Will...


Sometimes synergies between obviously mediocre cards make a nice trick or combo. I'm still convinced that this isn't good enough. Although it might work if the whole deck is built around these interactions.

Yea, trying to abuse the manlands as much as possible here...

[TsumiBand]

How many people don't understand that there is more than the man lands to put him into play? I haven't paid 4 to cast the myr once, but I guess if you're bad and can't use fetchlands or GSZ that's what you end up paying.

I know you're not talking about GSZ to put an artifact creature into play, so unless you snuck in Aether Vial while no one was reading your list, please explain how you are casting Myr Superion without manlands, Dryad Arbor, and/or Hierarch.

I mean like srsly, do pardon me for missing some implied synergy in your decklist besides counterspells + GSZ abuse, which honestly is probably the thing that makes your deck good and not the Superion.

[TheSleeper]

What about something like this:


// Lands
3 [M11] Forest (4)
2 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [U] Savannah
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [6E] Plains (2)

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [NPH] Myr Superion
1 [4E] Birds of Paradise

// Spells
1 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [NPH] Sword of War and Peace
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
1 [4E] Sylvan Library
4 [DS] AEther Vial

[rufus]

On some level the 'beatsticks and hatebears' approach appeals to me. I'm just not sure how much quality of either you can get. FWIW, Epochrasite and Talara's Batallion may be better cards than Myr Superion for the Aether Vial/cheat into play game plan. I'm also not sure what the options are for quality hate bears: Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Cannonist certainly have good potential to ruin someone's day, but the list from there gets a little shorter.

They're both probably too slow, but Werebear is, at least conceptually, not a terrible fit since it's a mana critter and a beatstick and Hunting Grounds offers another way to cheat bodies onto the table, though that's very limited.

[Richard Cheese]

Don't see why this matters, it ain't Force of Will...


Because it shuffles itself back in, so every time you cast it you end up with less cards in your library, less targets, but the same number of GSZs.

[Mr. Safety]

What do you cut for vials then? Just seems like a more clunky and card disadvantage way to put the Superion's into play, at least the manlands do something...

The problem also is as follows, you put vials in and you just become a bad vial deck, just like adding KOTR would do. This deck has more chances being a pseudo-supreme blue from earlier years than any of the modern tempo bant or vial decks. Goyfs are better walls than attackers against most matchup's, this is why Jace works better here, in combination with manlands etc, to win the Jace wars.

I didn't say it was a GOOD idea, it was just the best option if you really want to abuse Myr Superion. The guy is pretty bad outside of Vial Affinity IMHO. I made sure to say that if you want to run more Goyfs, there are better ways to do it (Bant, Zoo)


Reread the quote...I said if you want to use Myr Superion, run Vials AND HATEBEARS. That way your Vials always have a great target to put into play along with Superion, rather than relying on Vial just to PLAY Superion. The second part was in reference to your CURRENT LIST, not the list I suggested. I stand by what i said, too (you can quote me on it): Dumb beats alone can't get you there, you need support to make it work. Bant and Zoo do it so much better than this setup.

And if you think Aether Vial is card disadvantage, you are officially my new hero. Or mascot. Either way, that was funny...

[Dark Ritual]

Why not just cut superion for phyrexian metamorph? It copies tarmogoyf, knight, crucible of worlds, aether vial, etc. etc. and is essentially goyf 9-12 after GSZ tutors for a goyf. It can also copy vendilion clique, terravore, progenitus, emrakul, or any number of dudes. Myr superion is a pile and as a topdeck card to get out of a situation is usually fail especially if your opponent knows you're running it.

Also, vial card disadvantage? Big whoop. Every creature is uncounterable afterwards and the creatures gain flash as well. Seems sick. Vial is one of the most broken cards in legacy. Goblins and merfolk run 4 and without vial those decks would be piles of shit. It cheats mana. Need I go on?

[JCLe]

Because it shuffles itself back in, so every time you cast it you end up with less cards in your library, less targets, but the same number of GSZs.

Honestly... Do you really think this deck is gonna put all of the targets into play and then draw an additional zenith after that? I'd love to see the statistics on that in a normal game. Hypothetically, this'll only happen with a JTMS running, which means you can brainstorm them back in. Now, if you are stuck with 3 zeniths on top and no fetches, you might as well quit MTG, I know I would for a while. Even then, you could just cast for X and fail to find (Not 100% sure on this, never experienced a fail to find with GSZ, just saying).


And if you think Aether Vial is card disadvantage, you are officially my new hero. Or mascot. Either way, that was funny...

How is this funny, running vial with 8 creatures = clear card disadvantage. Your gonna run a turn 1 vial to put that 1 goyf in your hand for free? Sure it goes around counters, cool. It's quite possible you actually don't need to play around counters too you know, and you might also just really don't need it with the extra permission or cantrips you'd get. Vial in the deck would be like the worst 2 card monte ever, if I'm gonna play a two card combo I'll just keep playing storm or painter.

It's like you've never played merfolk against zoo and go land vial and dont actually need to use it ever. Note that this is one example out of many I could give you.

If you'd like to actually use real terms and say something relevant to argue you would be very welcome to.

Also, I read what you said but you just suggest hatebears in a blue deck, please tell me how this would be good, even noble fish rarely runs maindeck hatebears except for qasali (and trygon but it's not really a bear), and the vintage metagame is much more narrow.


Why not just cut superion for phyrexian metamorph? It copies tarmogoyf, knight, crucible of worlds, aether vial, etc. etc. and is essentially goyf 9-12 after GSZ tutors for a goyf. It can also copy vendilion clique, terravore, progenitus, emrakul, or any number of dudes. Myr superion is a pile and as a topdeck card to get out of a situation is usually fail especially if your opponent knows you're running it.

Also, vial card disadvantage? Big whoop. Every creature is uncounterable afterwards and the creatures gain flash as well. Seems sick. Vial is one of the most broken cards in legacy. Goblins and merfolk run 4 and without vial those decks would be piles of shit. It cheats mana. Need I go on?

Interesting suggestion, I actually thought about this the other day. Problem is the Superion is often bigger than goyf in this deck. I still have to test it though and it might be worth a split or just swap.

I am completely with you on the vial points, I know it's good in tribal. Thing is I don't want to curve the deck into something else, and I'd rather have the higher threat/blocker count that manlands give me. I mean, vial + hatebears makes it into some kind of bad maverick with FoW or something of the like... Thanks for actually posting why you think it's not disadvantage, if you can enlighten me on the points I posted above go for it, perhaps I should have posted my thoughts when I posted it but I didn't think it'd disturb people this much.

[Mr. Safety]

How is this funny, running vial with 8 creatures = clear card disadvantage. Your gonna run a turn 1 vial to put that 1 goyf in your hand for free? Sure it goes around counters, cool. It's quite possible you actually don't need to play around counters too you know, and you might also just really don't need it with the extra permission or cantrips you'd get. Vial in the deck would be like the worst 2 card monte ever, if I'm gonna play a two card combo I'll just keep playing storm or painter.

It's like you've never played merfolk against zoo and go land vial and dont actually need to use it ever. Note that this is one example out of many I could give you.

If you'd like to actually use real terms and say something relevant to argue you would be very welcome to.

Also, I read what you said but you just suggest hatebears in a blue deck, please tell me how this would be good, even noble fish rarely runs maindeck hatebears except for qasali (and trygon but it's not really a bear), and the vintage metagame is much more narrow.

You're still not getting what I said, maybe due to the fact that I'm not explaining myself well: I feel Myr Superion is only good with Aether Vial, and if Vial is your primary way to play Superion, then you need to saturate your deck with 2-drops. You have Goyf x4 and Superion x4, that's the STARTING 8 dudes...but I would NEVER play Vial in a deck with only 8 creatures. I would suggest 20 at a minimum. REMEMBER, I'm not saying this is a good idea, I"m just saying it's the only way I can see Superion being actually competitive. I play decks that pack a lot of removal/disruption (Tempo Faeries, Zoo, Rock) and the one card that is really GOOD vs. those decks is Vial. Those decks will rape you if you don't have vial...their game plan is just so much better.

Here is a decent list of bears I'd use with Vial/Goyf/Superion:

Ethersworn Canonist
Gaddock Teeg
Tidehollow Sculler
Dark Confidant
Phyrexian Negator
Stoneforge Mystic
Qasali Pridemage


I think that in particular, a setup with Bobs, Pridemages, and some mix of Canonists/Negators would be strong. That gives you your 20 dudes to go with Vial and could create a strong strategy that could support Myr Superion.

Concering hatebears in a blue deck: why not? At least you'd be doing something DIFFERENT. When your Vials are putting your threats into play, your countermagic/library manipulation gets exponentially more powerful...because you don't have to tap your lands to play dudes, you can control the game.

My comment about 'that was funny...' was because it sounded like you were saying Aether Via, in a general sense, is card disadvantage. I was laughing because its one of the best card advantage engines you can play in legacy.

[eq.firemind]

Aether Vial... one of the best card advantage engines you can play in legacy.
Are you seriously?
You can call it mana cheating, tempo gain, sometimes virtual card advantage (like when opponent sits with a hand full of counterspells or chalices and trinispheres), but "one of the best card advantage engines"? Really?

[Mr. Safety]

Are you seriously?
You can call it mana cheating, tempo gain, sometimes virtual card advantage (like when opponent sits with a hand full of counterspells or chalices and trinispheres), but "one of the best card advantage engines"? Really?

Mana cheating IS a form of card advantage. If one card can do the work of 2 (or more) you are gaining card advantage. Vial effectively lets you play your threats without using mana...allowing that mana to be used to cast important spells. Looks like card advantage to me...

[JCLe]

REMEMBER, I'm not saying this is a good idea, I"m just saying it's the only way I can see Superion being actually competitive.

I think you just answered yourself here...

In general, hatebears serve the role of your blue cards, that is the major reason why you don't often see the two combined, and in theory it sounds awful, that's why I don't want to try it.

If you do the setup you mentionned, what do you do without vial when you have Superion? Superion in my deck is never stuck in my hand.

The vial part has been adressed already, but I think you need to realize that it is SOMETIMES card advantage (more like some kind of tempo gain) cause without it you couldn't cast your spell at all or just cast them in an optimal way. Sometimes, it just rots on the table after the board has stalled, or you just get firespouted because it wasn't a lord, etc. That's MTG, there is luck, variance, different matchups, situations, etc.

To put it more in perspective of a card advantage card : You see a vial in your starter, or even two, you don't snap keep that hand. Now let's take real card advantage like brainstorm, if your down at 6 cards and you see one in your hand, you will keep no matter what, at 7 with a land and a brainstorm you might keep it, if you have a fetch also it's snap keep. I'd start every game with 4 brainstorms in my hand if I could, and it's more or less the same with any library manipulation cards like ponder or top (don't want multiples tops, but you can shuffle them away), but not vial. If you make the same example with vial, and isolate only 2-3 cards in your hand + vial, you can't keep in the dark like you would with card advantage engines. You need creatures, and not too many lands, maybe tempo spells like daze, which makes the spell SITUATIONAL. Also keep in mind that the vial could have been a land instead, and you probably could have casted all your creatures anyway...

[Mr. Safety]

Point taken...I won't argue with you.

All I meant was Hatebears + countermagic COULD be a pretty consistent deck. When the board is clear and you've hated out the different archetypes, anything will do to finish up...even 2/2 bears.

Thanks for the discussion!