View Full Version : Mono Green Infect
I got this idea, building MonoGreen infect without berserks would make the deck pretty budget, and it goes letal pretty fast due to the cheap pumps available, so I was thinking about tweaking a monogreen infect to a somewhat competitive level.
The infect creatures available are:
Glistener Elf
Ichorclaw Myr
Plague Myr
Necropede
Blight Mamba
and to a lower extent Cystbearer or Rot Wolf
This is enough to build a stompy-like deck, the problem is the massive 2cmc cost of the creatures, so I thought about a playset of Elvish Spirit Guide
Since they are all 1/1 creatures, one or two Pendelhaven could be ok too. (not sure on the price of these)
And then the growth spells available:
Might of old Krosa
Invigorate
Rancor
Vines of Vastwood
Giant Growth
Mutagenic Growth
Briar Shield
Seal of Strength
Wild Might
Symbiosis
Groundswell
Sylvan Library // used to fetch for pumps
I can suggest sideboard as well, with Seal of Primordium being a card that could make it into the maindeck to fight cb+tops, Chalices, Jittes, Standstills...:
Green ones:
Seeds of Innocence
Reverent Silence
Avoid Fate
Compost
Seal of Primordium
Krosan Grip
Gleeful Sabotage
Colorless ones:
Tormod's crypt
Mindbreak Trap
Mental Misstep
[ Update ]
The cake recipe for a list would be like this:
// Lands [~16]
10-16 Forest
0-4 Pendelhavem
// Accelerators [4~8]
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
0-4 Lotus Petal
// Creatures [~15]
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blight Mamba
0-3 Plague Myr
0-3 Necropede
// Business [4~10]
0-4 Mental Misstep
4 Vines of Vastwood
0-2 Sylvan Library
// Pumps [11~21]
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
3-13 Other Green Pumps || Spells
// 4eak's List
// Mana Sources - 22
10 Forest
4 Pendelhaven
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
// Infectzor- 16
4 Necropede
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blight Mamba
// Protection - 8
4 Mental Misstep
4 Vines of Vastwood
// Pure Pump - 14
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
3 Prey's Vengeance
3 Might of Old Krosa
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
// My list
// Manasources [20]
14x Forest
2x Pendelhaven
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
// Critters [15]
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
4x Blight Mamba
3x Plague Myr
// Anti-control [10]
2x Sylvan Library
4x Mental Misstep
4x Vines of Vastwood
// Carbohydrate + Protein + Cafein + BCAA [15]
4x Invigorate
4x Rancor
3x Giant Growth
4x Seal of Strength
I played a pauper (well, almost, i had 4 uncommons in the board) version of Infect at a small local tournament over the weekend to a win and think this could easily work. For reference here was the list:
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
4x Blight Mamba
4x Rot Wolf
4x Invigorate
4x Rancor
4x Giant Growth
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Groundswell
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Lotus Petal
16x Forest
I didn't have trouble with having creatures, but leaving the pauper concept and having Necropede (and probably Pendlehaven) seems like a really good idea. If you're going to run a 3cc guy, Rot Wolf is it. You're going to need to waste a pump or vine to keep it alive through a bolt just like with Cystbearer, but at least when he goes in and you rip through chump blockers he'll be drawing you cards, which can matter.
You want 4x of Mutagenic Growth and Invigorate because they are your best pumps. The fact that it's only +2/+2 on growth doesn't really matter much because the fact that you can play multiples without having to tap mana is beyond worth it. Might of Old Krosa vs. Groundswell is a player call. I don't like casting my pump mainphase and only once had an issue not finding landfall for the bonus on groundswell, but ymmv.
Just my experience with the deck, I was killing people turn 2 off turn 1 Glistener or petal + 2cc infector pretty regularly. Small sample size of games, but still fun as hell.
You want 4x of Mutagenic Growth and Invigorate because they are your best pumps. The fact that it's only +2/+2 on growth doesn't really matter much because the fact that you can play multiples without having to tap mana is beyond worth it. Might of Old Krosa vs. Groundswell is a player call. I don't like casting my pump mainphase and only once had an issue not finding landfall for the bonus on groundswell, but ymmv.
I see you had more pumps and less creatures than I do, and played 16 lands, so you had less trouble finding pumps. Which also reminds me of Sylvan Library as 2x, to dig further pumps. I believe it's still a budget card too.
I know, Groundswell looks great as a +4/+4... probably worth playing both as 4-of
Something more like this:
14x Forest
2x Pendelhaven
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
4x Blight Mamba
3x Plague Myr
2x Sylvan Library
4x Invigorate
4x Rancor
3x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Groundswell
4x Vines of Vastwood
Could be a better starting point?
Edit: Also, no trouble casting Rot Wolf? He looks strong, in theory, but looks hard to cast.
And Sims, did you play it at a Legacy tourney to a win? o0
I believe 1 game I did have rot wolf sitting in hand when I didn't have the resources to cast him. If I were to play the deck again in a Legacy tournament, staying mono-G, that would either become Necropede or Plague Myr likely just to compact the curve.
I did play it and prize split first and second place at a small "Legacy" tournament with the deck posted above, but that performance must be taken with a grain of salt (or two.) It is a small local tournament that is being hosted by one of the stores to get his community into Legacy, not the store I normally go to for my competitive legacy fix. The other players were playing Burn, Aggro Elves (priests/archdruids, lords, Nissa), Standard eldrazi ramp, aggro vampires with ritual and hex-depths, etc.. So I knew going in I wouldn't have to worry about STPs on my guys, which was part of the reason I played this deck.
I lost 2 games on the day, both game ones. Game 1 against the elf player while i had a slow hand and had to cast turn 2 blight mamba and turn 3 rot wolf while flooding mana wise and not having enough pump, and game 1 against the burn player who just had the goods. The rest of my games in the tournament I either won on turn 2 or turn 3.
So yes, I did play it and win out overall at a Legacy event, but no it wasn't a developed metagame or a highly competitive event. So take that as you will, but i think with tweaking it's a solid budget option that, much like burn, can just win.
evanmartyr
05-18-2011, 02:48 PM
For some reason the SCG Orlando coverage is off the main page but not yet in archives, so I can't link to the list, but there was a dude that did decently well with a Gu Infect deck. He ran the standard green creatures, some pump, and a decent amount of super cheap countermagic along with the unblockable 2cc 1/1 blue infect guy.
I realize that suggesting a 4x Tropical Island list isn't budget, and I'll try to find it somewhere, but it might be something you could trade/win up to after starting with a mono-green build.
He also ran Berserks, which is a bit outside of the budget range as well, but his list was awesome. I had some issues with it that i would have changed personally but overall i was impressed with it.
For some reason the SCG Orlando coverage is off the main page but not yet in archives, so I can't link to the list, but there was a dude that did decently well with a Gu Infect deck. He ran the standard green creatures, some pump, and a decent amount of super cheap countermagic along with the unblockable 2cc 1/1 blue infect guy.
I realize that suggesting a 4x Tropical Island list isn't budget, and I'll try to find it somewhere, but it might be something you could trade/win up to after starting with a mono-green build.
Actually I had post a GUb list at the proper thread, at N&D thread "Infect Pump", which looked a lot like that one. I've read the mini-article about that "tech list" too, and a friend also told me that someone used a deck that looked like mine xD.
That list is promising, but not budget. And I reckon no list, not even monogreen with zerks, is budget enough to catch the interest of new players. I do own Berserks on my own, but I kinda like these Stompy budget lists...
I am trying to build a Peasant version of this deck at the moment and I like your version more than mine :) What do you think of Gitaxian Probe? I found it to be okay, looking at your opponent's hand can be quite useful when timing Vines of Vastwood.
I don't have Pendelhaven in the deck, but I want to fit them in. I'm afraid that invigorate might become inconsistent if I drop anymore forests.
// Mainly Mana Sources -24
12 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
// Creatures - 16
4 Necropede
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blight Mamba
// Spells - 20
4 Rancor
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Invigorate
peace,
4eak
To be honest, I dislike the manlands. They are 0cc creatures, ok, but you virtually spend 2 mana into making them alive every other turn (tap a land for mana, tap manland to attack). I preffer running more creatures in the spot.
And the thing with too much accelerators is that it is amazing when you are able to get everything right. But my testings in past has shown the same issue the old 9-land stompies had with consistancy. Maybe the synergy of the manlands and the 8 accelerators is worth it, I didn't test it that way... I'm interested in what you find out by your testings.
Man-lands allow you to effectively run more mana sources than you normally could. It makes the mana-base more stable in many ways, letting you keeping opening hands that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to keep (for lack of another land or lacking a creature).
Inkmoth isn't amazing, you are right. It does maximize threat density, and it helps mitigate sorcery speed removal. The fact that it flies is impressive. It solves a lot of corner cases and provides longevity as well.
I'm not sure if it is unfair to think of it like this (I'm probably missing an essential caveat), your initial list runs:
21 mana sources, 19 infect win cons, and 20 pump spells
Mine runs:
24 mana sources, 20 infect win cons, and 20 pump spells
When it comes to colorless mana production, my deck is more consistent. It is uncommon to open hands that can't produce 2 mana. Less mulligans happen because of this.
The trick is that you really want a permanent green producer (Forest, Pendelhaven) in your opener. I trade-off some consistency of opening a permanent green producer for increased speed and overall increased colorless mana production. More mulligans happen because of this.
I think the speed is really necessary. This deck needs a turn one infect creature. The difference is tremendous, in my view. I can see -4 Inkmoth, +2 Pendelhaven, +Plague Myr. I'd keep the mana acceleration still. It has been good in my testing.
peace,
4eak
I'll post it here -- I will most likely try this list as soon as I can (which usually isn't much soon), but 4eak is doing a fantastic job @ his budget thread already, so...
Mono Green Infect
// Mana Sources - 21
1 Pendelhaven
13 Forest
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Lotus Petal
// Infect Creatures - 15
3 Necropede
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blight Mamba
// Strictly Pump Spells - 16
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
// Protection and/or Pump - 8
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Mental Misstep (for various reasons, some may prefer to replace this with pump, and that's fine)
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
Like Dredge, this is really close to what I think optimal deck looks like. I think some number of Inkmoth Nexus would be in the optimal build, but that card really doesn't add much for the money. I've ended up going for a slightly less combo playstyle with this deck after testing (moving away from cards like Mutagenic Growth and Berserk) -- the deck has more staying power than one might initially presume. I can easily see metagames where going for the pure combo is simply better. The mana-base is explosive because you really want a turn 1 infect creature, but I'm pretty picky about which pump spells to play. I wouldn't play Berserk anyways at this point (horror of all horrors!). Rancor is a pimp, ditto for MMisstep. Pretty simple deck. Don't underestimate your ability to win combat wars. Noteworthy, the very top-end, non-budget build is likely a UG or UGb build, but it really isn't much better (not worth the money, in my view).
Thanks 4eak for the tweaked list
I will be testing more Pendelhavens. It might require some other changes to the deck, but it really might be worth it.
peace,
4eak
I didn't believe it would be a good idea until I tried it. Pendelhaven's are an auto-4x after testing. Don't fear multiples, wasteland exists. You pretty much want 1 every game. It gives your dudes some toughness to win combat wars, as a form of card advantage often enough.
I decided to record some goldfished hands. Here is the list:
// Mana Sources - 22
4 Pendelhaven
10 Forest
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
// Infect Creatures - 16
4 Necropede
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blight Mamba
// Pump Spells - 22
4 Prey's Vengeance
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Mutagenic Vault (not a big fan of it)
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
This is neither the fastest build nor the most protected.
While goldfishing, I didn't look for specifically fast hands, but I did mulligan when I didn't have a creature or I didn't have the mana to play one in my opening hand.
On the play, this is very roughly what you might expect from this deck:
http://i.imgur.com/LOhUS.png
This shows my mulligans as well. I fizzled twice, and neither went towards the average. This means that 98% of the time, you get the average, and the other 2% you fizzle.
On the draw, I only looked at my 7-cards, chose mulligans, and played the hands I kept. I expect the 'on the play' stats to fill in the gap here. So, a mull-to-6 on the draw should have reasonably similar results as keeping a 7-card hand on the play (obviously, not perfect, but I'm conserving time).
So, on the draw:
http://i.imgur.com/XkQXJ.png
This looks to be a very consistent turn 3 deck, if left unchecked. It wins a lot of combat wars and has reasonable resistance to disruption. Seems like a much better deck than I thought it was going to be.
--------------------------------------
I also want to convey my dissatisfaction with Berserk once again. The card's power is conditional, and it is overextends when you don't need to overextend. Yes, it turns your +4 pump spells into autowins if left unblocked, and the trample is awesome. It doesn't, however, play nice when you don't have a perfect hand or your opponent has answers in board or in hand. I think the card is 'win-more'. It doesn't help you when you are down well enough.
Lastly, I'll be testing 1-2 Sylvan Libraries.
peace,
4eak
I play Pauper and the problem is that without some strong protection and also as much unblockability as possible its really hard to win through the disruption and blocking.
I would Berserk makes a HUGE difference: first it gives you easy squeezy one-shots and, secondly, it gives trample.
The problem is that if you start adding stuff like Apostle's Blessing you are watering down the deck so much.
I think its much like Berserk Stompy in that it seems like it should dominate Pauper..but it really doesn't. Which has to speak to how it will fare in Legacy to some degree I think.
Oh, I'm certainly not of the opinion that Mono Green Infect would dominate Legacy. For 30 bucks though, it packs a serious punch. A highly consistent turn 3 deck is still impressive in Legacy, and it doesn't fold as quickly as many might think. Perhaps I do think it is better than you though, I'm not sure.
peace,
4eak
I've changed my list to test, using mine as raw, so I didn't test pendelhaven as 4-of as 4eak says. I get consistant protected t3 and t4 kills. Mental Misstep is really strong, so is Vastwood, what makes me wanna test a couple of Avoid Fate MD.
Berserk is not missed at all, and oh, I advise whoever is testing this list to use a couple of Sylvan Library MD. It can bring games back against removal-ish controls.
And Krosa/Groundswell, I missed them being Giant Growth a few times, so I changed them
Seal of Strength is REALLY good fixing T1 play to a T3 kill.
// Manasources [20]
14x Forest
2x Pendelhaven
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
// Critters [15]
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
4x Blight Mamba
3x Plague Myr
// Anti-control [10]
2x Sylvan Library
4x Mental Misstep
4x Vines of Vastwood
// Carbohydrate + Protein + Cafein + BCAA [15]
4x Invigorate
4x Rancor
3x Giant Growth
4x Seal of Strength
P.S.: 4eak, from what you've played, no problems with Wasteland and Legendary Rule with 16 Lands + 8! accelerators? I run less accelerators, dunno if it is wise to test 4 PHs
I'd like to point out that this deck has now, somehow, what I like to call a "Core". Not a fixed core, as goblins, but some are:
// Lands [~16]
10-16 Forest
0-4 Pendelhavem
// Accelerators [4~8]
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
0-4 Lotus Petal
// Creatures [~15]
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blight Mamba
0-3 Plague Myr
0-3 Necropede
// Business [4~10]
0-4 Mental Misstep
4 Vines of Vastwood
0-2 Sylvan Library
// Pumps [11~21]
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
3-13 Other Green Pumps
Pendelhaven is almost certain to be worth at least as 2-of, and Plague Myr vs Necropede are almost the same so I call this the base of the deck:
// Base Mono Green Infect deck:
10 Forest
2 PendelHaven
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blight Mamba
3 Necropede/Plague Myr
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
This is a 43 cards core, which I believe to be very solid, and can be used as default for tests.
On this base, 4eak's adds are:
Base
+4 Lotus Petal
+2 Pendelhaven
+1 Necropede
+4 Prey's Vengeance
+4 Might of Old Krosa
+2 Mutagenic Growth
While mine is more controlish:
Base
+2 Sylvan Library
+4 Seal of Strength
+4 Mental Misstep
+3 Giant Growth
+4 Forest
And Sim's list, which couldn't use ESG and Necropede, switching them for what is being used, we have:
Base
+4 Forest
+4 Groundswheel
+4 Giant Growth
+1 Necropede
+4 Mutagenic Growth
Cool to see the differences and similarities, and how the deck is being built. :D
Edit: Also, with an inner look, I realize +7 "other green pumps" is core, as long as you don't care about the difference between: Giant Growth, Seal of Strength, Might of Old Krosa, Groundswheel and Prey's Vengeance
PS: Props to the way goblins thread organize their list with a core xD
I was just testing that list to get a good indication of average speed of the deck (hard to measure the value of MM) -- but, in the end, it isn't the correct build, imho.
This is the list I currently use:
// Mana Sources - 22
10 Forest
4 Pendelhaven
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
// Infectzor- 16
4 Necropede
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blight Mamba
// Protection - 8
4 Mental Misstep
4 Vines of Vastwood
// Pure Pump - 14
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
3 Prey's Vengeance
3 Might of Old Krosa
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
I'm considering adding 1 Forest. I think I'd take out either 1 Necropede, Might, or Prey.
4eak, from what you've played, no problems with Wasteland and Legendary Rule with 16 Lands + 8! accelerators? I run less accelerators, dunno if it is wise to test 4 PHs
Test my exact list. Pendelhaven is excellent. You want one every game. Wasteland makes me want to run 6, not 2. Legendary rule is very uncommon.
You are playing (or building, rather) this deck all wrong without the full 8 accelerators. It looks like you've come around to agree with me on the Berserk issue (meaning, we are glad not to run it). Try my exact list out.
It wins combat wars a lot, Pendelhaven and Prey's let you crush a lot of decks that would otherwise successfully throw out chumpblockers as a form of removal. It is still very fast and consistent.
I will continue to test Library and Giant Growth (which, I think, is substantially better than Seal) -- I think -3 Might +3 Giant Growth might be correct.
peace,
4eak
Hmmm... Maybe there's something too, I always have a T1 move, since I run Seal where you run 4 Petal. You end up having a T1 creature more often (I have 8 ways, you have 12), and I end up having more business (I don't spend a lot of resources and then cry against a daze so often). Seal has been great in testing, and GG vs Seal, to me, is Seal all day, because you can play it with the spare mana and make it a decent T1 play. Anyways, I'm running both Growth and Seal atm.
I'll have to test your exact list to see how it goes with 4 Pendelhaven + 8 accelerators. I'm kind of afraid that I can't keep a Forest-less hand, not only because of wasteland or legendary rule, but for Invigorate's alternate cost as well. Testings shall tell.
I'd like to know what you are testing against, and what are results so far. I tend to test a lot against random decks (actually a lot of Stoneforge + Jace decks), since my main test engine is MWS =/
P.S.: You said you want to rise the forest count. I can do mulligan info on the land counts if you want.
With 10 Forest, you don't get a forest in the opening seven 1 out of 3.8 games. With 11, you'll get no forest 1 out of 4.5 games. With 14, that goes for 1 out of 7.26.
Also, with mulligan, both will most likelly always get a forest within the 6 ( won't get in 1 out of 13 games for 10 forest)
Anyways, this may be irrelevant, 12 is plenty dredgers for dredge, with 11 being just almost as plenty, so I guess 11 is ok, and you afford to mull a little more. Besides, you can always keep a hand with haven and count on either draw forest or not using invigorates.
I still like the way I never mull xD
Edit:
It looks like you've come around to agree with me on the Berserk issue (meaning, we are glad not to run it). Try my exact list out.
What do you mean? I started this thread to build this deck without Zerk oO
Oh, ok, I get it, meaning I wouldn't run it even if that was the case... hmmm
Yeah, well, that would be a different build. I'd still run Berserk with counterspell backup, or dircard, etc... But I agree, it's not that good @ monogreen, since our protection for the chained spells are meh.
Zalren
06-29-2011, 04:53 PM
What about using Spellskite as your protection over Mental Misstep? That way it will protect your guys from all targeted removal, not just StP.
I have been playing G/U infect build and it has been working for me so far.
Almost all targeted removal is StP, PtE, and Bolt. The vast majority of the time, the difference is literally 2-mana (a gigantic amount for this deck)! Furthermore, you're often able to combo where the only relevant removal is 1cc removal anyways.
Spellskite also telegraphs your play, giving far too much information advantage to your opponent.
I think there are also other reasons...Misstep stops opposing combos, etc.
peace,
4eak
Besides, Avoid Fate looks better in the spot, and even it is hard to fit with mm and vastwood
Mr Pirakos
07-26-2011, 05:45 PM
I've sorta been toying with this idea the past few days. I haven't had a chance to do any testing but I'm leaning towards a GB build using hand disruption as the protection so I can get all ten counters through at once.
Kinderschreck
08-01-2011, 12:35 PM
You know that berserk could be a option?
With Invigorate/might of Old Krosa you create a creature that must be stopped or it's GG.
My list would be somethinge like that:
Creatures:
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Glistener Elf
4 Necropede
4 Blight Mamba
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
Spells:
4 Berserk
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Invigorate
4 Mental Misstep
2 Mutagenic Growth
Artifacts:
4 Lotus Petal
Enchantments:
4 Rancor
Lands:
10 Forest
3 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
I really would like to try Tezzeret's Gambit but got not free space for it...Maybe cuting the Mutagenic Growth for 2. Drawing 2 cards when you really need some push is neat, adding a poison counter to your opp and increase the -1/-1 Counter on his creatures is a nice extra!
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