Dear Starcity.

[Kasa]

Okay, I'm a long time lurker (One year+) of this wonderful website, and, now, while I hate to do this, I'm going to use this as an open forum to share my feelings about some things said today in the SCG Legacy event today in Louisville (Or, luhville to the natives).

First off, Decree of Justice isn't some swingy new tech. In fact, at least 3 copies of DoJ have made it in the top sixteen in the past year of Starcity events. It is, in fact, old tech, and correct tech. (As in, much better than playing a standstill, only to break your own standstill later because wastelands invalidated your only strategy for operating under it.) Oh, and DoJ was widely played 'back in the day'.

Second, Chris Kronenberger wasn't 'taking a page out of Gerry Thompsons book.' unless the page was just Mental Misstep. In fact, I believe Chris has been playing MUC for a little while now. I know this, because I've lost to him. I simply think this is quite unfair, and credit should be given where credit is due.

I just wish you guys could be a little more accurate in your descriptions of...well, everything. That 'No Bant' list is funny, because I see no white.

[HokusSchmokus]

This.
Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in Coverage of SCG Events.
You cannot really blame them for most things though, e.g. the Live Coverage of the folks from ggslive.com.
While they don't know anything about Legacy as a format and I get the impression they don't know much about magic, too, they are still covering interesting matches of magic in a very high quality. And that is a very huge favor they do to the community, so I accept the "Drawbacks".But some things are just flat out ridiculous.
What really hurts are the comments they give on the decks/plays that happen while they speak.
For example, UB Faestalker: " This deck seems to have a very weak matchup against Control." - 4 Bitterblossum Main. And all the good Faeries.
I don't really think it can be changed without changing the staff that does the commentary though.

What indeed CAN be changed ( and should be) are the Decklists...it is not a great pile of work to get the names of the Archetypes and decks of the top 16 in general right. That needs some polishing.

[Amon Amarth]

Some of the commentators are just... bad. I don't expect everyone to know who to attribute credit to certain decks but it seems like they just make stuff up sometimes. Not to misinform, I think, but just to look like they are credible.

[phonics]

I remember when it was ggslive (with rashad, ray, brian usually) that did the commentary they were much better. They also got a lot of high level players to sit in on matches too. One of the biggest gripes I have with the commentary now is that they dont seem to know whats going on half of the time. It seems like they look away from the action all the time and then come back without a clue. In addition the knowledge (esp in the legacy portion) is not there to provide good commentary. As it stands the commentary doesnt do a good job of play by play (like whats in hands, discarded or other stuff that is difficult to make out on the stream), a step back from when ggslive did it.

With that said though it is an awesome service that they provide for free, and I do enjoy watching new content almost every week.

[HokusSchmokus]

Uhm, isn't still done by ggslive?
At least you can watch the archived videos from SCG events at ggslive.com

[phonics]

The backend is done by ggslive, I was referring more to the commentary and whatnot. I think all the recent scg events (from LA onward) are on scg.blip.tv instead of ggslive.

[Cthuloo]

I don't follow the live commentary, but, from what I have been reading in the reports, you are definitely right. The feeling I have is that they think that this bizarre thing called Legacy was born with their tournament series. They proudly ignore any previous history of the format, and seem to be convinced that every single tech is due to the incredible cleverness of their pros. I'm not sure how much of it is due to sheer ignorance (and arrogance) and how much it's a marketing move to make newcomers believe SCG = Legacy, when of course it's not, but it's very annoying for anyone who was playing the format before 2010.

[godryk]

I played Legacy before it was cool.

[dahcmai]

They are just brand pushing hard with people who really aren't all that knowledgeable about the format. Nothing new really. Problem is having a lot of these players acting like they are the long time pros of the format when most of them weren't out of Kindergarden when Legacy started. That part is kind of annoying.

Legacy is mainly a lot of the old Vintage players who switched over either before or right after the restricted list being separated. Well, at least here it is.

I won't bash them much though since they do provide some exposure we never had before, though I do weight it against the fact that it's own popularity is pushing things a little faster than we could want. I liked it better when they pushed Vintage more though.

[jandax]

They are just brand pushing hard with people who really aren't all that knowledgeable about the format. Nothing new really. Problem is having a lot of these players acting like they are the long time pros of the format when most of them weren't out of Kindergarden when Legacy started. That part is kind of annoying.

Legacy is mainly a lot of the old Vintage players who switched over either before or right after the restricted list being separated. Well, at least here it is.

I won't bash them much though since they do provide some exposure we never had before, though I do weight it against the fact that it's own popularity is pushing things a little faster than we could want. I liked it better when they pushed Vintage more though.


This.

The thing to keep in consideration is that no one trained them how to do this. The Open series came from within the company, it started with an idea that was put into fruition through a lot of hard work.

Since WotC has little control over the secondary card market, businesses within the market are free to do what they will within the confines of business ethics, contractual agreements, etc.

This Open series is well on its way to becoming a second hand Pro Tour, and SCG is making business out of it. More and more people are gaining exposure to these popular formats, and newer players are entering every week/month. SCG realized it needed to make its name synonymous with Legacy/STandard tournaments.

The people they employ to run their shows either draw from personal experience, or are obviously learning as they go. It's a new thing, really, and I can't fault a bunch of guys pursuing a dream job of theirs.

They could, however, have a little more attention to detail. I never watch coverage footage any more, because it's always some talking head sitting infront of the webcam responding to chat inquiries and appologizing for technical difficulties.

They are loose with their crediting, like lazy players are with their sideboarding. Always looking to last week for something to talk about this week. Insert-Top8Player's-name gets credited with a "new" deck, or "new" tech, my ass.

That coverage is only worth the results it contains. No journalistic quality. They could "take a page from WOTC's book" and practice covering events like the pro's have been doing for years now.

[cdr]

You cannot really blame them for most things though, e.g. the Live Coverage of the folks from ggslive.com.

You can't blame GGSLive - the commentators are SCG commentators. GGSLive provides the streaming tech and Rashad does the technical production, but everything else is 100% SCG.

SCG is even currently hiring a video producer of their own, so at some point no one from GGSLive will be involved at all in SCG events.

[jandax]

They've stolen the ggslive business model, time to produce coverage from within for better expense write offs.

[cdr]

GGSLive never had a "business model". It's a fun hobby for the people that participate in it.

Rashad would no doubt love to not have to fly out to every single SCG Open weekend - he probably wants SCG to take over doing their streaming more than SCG does.

[jandax]

Well, to turn their hobby into something more, like they did, they'd definitely need planning to turn it into a business. Reasons being for sustainability, and to make it worth while for their own efforts. They should have just made it an LLC, then sold out to SCG after proving this is a service the Open Series needs.

Business model.

But I digress. Sounds cool to fly around to all the Opens but such work takes more than it gives back. At least the grinders get to game for their loot.

[Koby]

I agree that some of the SCG commentators are pretty dense. Not nearly as bad as some of the "guests" such as the moppish-haired "like" guy from yesterday. Ugh... such inane dribble.

I usually discount anything the commentators say (and often mute in downtime), and only pay attention to the actual matches.

[Arew]

Second, Chris Kronenberger wasn't 'taking a page out of Gerry Thompsons book.' unless the page was just Mental Misstep. In fact, I believe Chris has been playing MUC for a little while now. I know this, because I've lost to him. I simply think this is quite unfair, and credit should be given where credit is due.

I thought this was pretty dumb as someone who's been playing against Chris for three-fourths of a year.

[CorpT]

This is for Orlando, but you can give SCG feedback (http://www.esurveyspro.com/Survey.aspx?id=582b4d7d-966c-42ac-bb5b-7754f970d992). They're asking for it, so it is likely that they're actually reading it.

Not sure if they'll have a Louisville one or not.

[troopatroop]

Is there an application process? I would like to see them take the commentator jobs more seriously, because it's unnatractive for experienced Legacy players to listen to primarily Legacy observers, and there are people that could do a great job with it.

I nominate Myself and Nightmare for the job, where do I sign up? Filled out the survey, wrote a RANT at the bottom...

[CorpT]

I think the issue is that they've basically ported Standard players over to Legacy coverage. And it's different. Different Legacy commentators than Standard commentators is probably a good idea. Or at least some screening process to make sure the Standard commentators know what they're talking about.

On the flip-side, I tend to cut them slack and not get too upset about this stuff because filling 10 hours is rough.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Wait, did they really describe DoJ in Landstill as new tech?

That might actually be the oldest tech left in the format. Like, I mean it's older than Vial, creature type human and the new card face. It's older than Legacy being Legacy for that matter.

[cdr]

Is there an application process? I would like to see them take the commentator jobs more seriously, because it's unnatractive for experienced Legacy players to listen to primarily Legacy observers, and there are people that could do a great job with it.

I nominate Myself and Nightmare for the job, where do I sign up? Filled out the survey, wrote a RANT at the bottom...

My understanding was that they privately asked some people, then announced. When people asked about commentating after SCGLive was announced - some of them very good - they were told that all the slots were filled for this year.

Hopefully they'll at least cut the underperforming commentators after this year, and be more flexible at letting other people commentate.

[Forbiddian]

... Decree of Justice ... MUC....

I just wish you guys could be a little more accurate in your descriptions of...well, everything. That 'No Bant' list is funny, because I see no white.

Calling it "MUC" is funny because I actually see white.

[GexxX]

I've heard some funny things during their coverages during the last couple of months.
Loving Storm and pretty much each and every Deck that does abuse Tendrils, Empty and Grapeshot I do understand that most people don't pay attention to how different even those Decks abuse the strategy and how different they work. I am also very often confronted with statements like "this isn't, Magic, but solitaire" or "You don't interact..." and so on and I know most Legacy Players don't like combo.

When a guy then says he likes Storm and he played it in tournaments, but does not tell the other person he does the coverage with that TPS and TES are not only different in Strategy, but that TES usually plays orim's chant and claims it to be the main difference it's just bad coverage (not to mention that TPS is a Vintage Deck...). It's hard to know all about the format and I personally know very little about control Decks (since a lack of interest) I still don't say Team America and Bant are the same, but one plays white, the other one plays black...

I think the very best coverage I've seem so far was with Gerrard Fabiano, because he was funny and when he did not know something he was asking his co-moderator or someone else AND if the question was not answered satisfying he stood up, went to someone he knows being able to answer the question and got him into the booth. Even though he was wandering arround a lot he still was a lot of fun to listen to and much more informative than most of his colleagues.

thanks for reading. :P

[anonymos]

I'm fine with the commentators not knowing everything. I'd rather they just admit to it.

What I don't like is Adrian Sullivan. He'll see one card in someones deck come up mid match and go on a tangent for the rest of the match about how great it was a decade or more ago. While he's doing this, there is no coverage of the match. Whoever he does commentary with needs a foam bat or squirt bottle or something to attack him when he goes off on a tangent.

The other thing I'd like them to do is mark both sides of the viewing area so players quit going outside of it. It'd save on a lot of confusion. That and getting cameras on ALL the feature match tables so when one ends, they can flip a switch and go to the next one or let the ones that aren't being shown just record. Instant replays of things like that counterwar between Chris and AJ would've been lost if it weren't on camera. One of the better moments thus far.

[cdr]

The other thing I'd like them to do is mark both sides of the viewing area so players quit going outside of it. It'd save on a lot of confusion. That and getting cameras on ALL the feature match tables so when one ends, they can flip a switch and go to the next one or let the ones that aren't being shown just record. Instant replays of things like that counterwar between Chris and AJ would've been lost if it weren't on camera. One of the better moments thus far.

It is marked and always has been. Some players just don't care.

Also, cameras + mounts + other hardware are pretty expensive and consume a fair bit of space, which matters for both the venue and for transporting it. They may decide to add a second rig eventually, but it's not a completely trivial thing to do. Also, Rashad/GGSLive owns the equipment being used currently, and it's unlikely he'll spring for a second rig. I wonder whether SCG is buying their own hardware when they take over the video production.

[Tammit67]

It would greatly surprise me if they don't fix this issue, considering how much more profitable it could be if they were better at this.

+1 on Nightmare doing this, but it might be contingent on him shaving...

[Pastorofmuppets]

It would greatly surprise me if they don't fix this issue, considering how much more profitable it could be if they were better at this.

+1 on Nightmare doing this, but it might be contingent on him shaving...

I'd like to see IBA and Cavius do it.

[Kage]

Well, I got used to Adrian Sullivan (who can't even recognize a fucking Misty Rainforest), but what he's doing with this chick right now is absolutely atrocious. But hey, at least we got a decent match where the Goblin player doesn't attack for 2 turns with a winning army in play.

OOOOOOHHH he's attacking with Mangara!!!44!four!!!




Nooooo, wait he's removed the Vial, oh wow, what a huge play!!