[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[HoneyT]

A few things:

Re: Ruination vs Plow Under

If Turbo Eldrazi is your big concern with that slot, going with the card that just kills them is wayyy better even at the cost of a couple of your own lands. They can always Crop Rotation away one of the Plow Under targets anyway and that's super miserable. Plow Under is certainly better against the other grindy fair decks however, but I don't think you need it to win those games most of the time. Also the mana difference can certainly be a problem vs those decks.

Re: PFire vs Scapewish

TheArchitect and Arianrhod pretty much got it between the two of them.


And you give up the ability to win a game where you have only lands, zero cards in hand, and low life while your opponent is at 30 and has a jace, bskull, and etc.


If this ever happens playing PFire, you played wrong or kept a terrible hand. PFire absolutely rapes the Stoneblade decks.

The biggest pull towards playing Scapewish is you have the "oops, I win" button. This comes at the expense of a sideboard able to beat combo decks and a slightly weaker manabase.

As Arianrhod said, with practice, either one should trounce any kind of fair deck. If you're fine losing to combo, Scapewish is perfectly reasonable, otherwise, you're going to want a real sideboard.

@Arianrhod:

I also missed day 2 by one round in Indy. I was on GBw at the time. I was 5-0 in Denver then lost all three win-and-ins to make day 2. Untimely mulligans and a few Griselbrands and Emrakuls later and I was out =/

I haven't played it in awhile, but the GB list in my signature is within a few cards of what I would play today.
No changes at the moment to PFire. The SCG KC list is still awesome. It'll change with the meta, but right now, it's where it should be.

Also I'll be more than willing to help you write about some of the subarchetypes you haven't played.

[drfontaine]

Still cannot abandon the idea of playing BUG nicfit with main FOW...

What you guys feel about this list?


2 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
2 Curfew
2 Counterspell
3 Force of Will

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ponder
3 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Pernicious Deed

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Island
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 3 Counterbalance
SB: 1 Skeletal Scrying
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Sensei's Divining Top

19 Blue cards main now which is kinda how low i'd ever go to play fow main :/, however kinda unsure about counterspell since UU cost..

Any suggestions?

[Lemnear]

Suggestions? Don't start a Nic Fit deck by chopping Explorers and Zeniths

If you go for blue snapcaster should replace Whitness completely

[Zombie]

@ HoneyT
That sideboard. Jesus. Do you board in 15 cards vs. combo or something? :D
That list looks super sweet, gotta test it out. One question, though: What land would you replace if you absolutely had to cram Stronghold in, and is it's absence more of a "doesn't do much, land might as well be colored" or a "the lack of coloured mana actively makes the deck a good bit worse" kind of thing? /recursionaddict

[drfontaine]

Suggestions? Don't start a Nic Fit deck by chopping Explorers and Zeniths

If you go for blue snapcaster should replace Whitness completely

Sorry, forgot the fact you should stick to the tradition here and inetsad of actually developing something new ask for suggestion of a decklist that just recently won scg open except you replaced one maelstrom pulse with an abrupt decay. Now those list could actually use some suggestions no?

Btw whole intention was the interaction of curfew with the strong enter battlefield creatures commonly used in nic fit therefore both 2x witness and snappy.

[Lemnear]

Sorry, forgot the fact you should stick to the tradition here and inetsad of actually developing something new ask for suggestion of a decklist that just recently won scg open except you replaced one maelstrom pulse with an abrupt decay. Now those list could actually use some suggestions no?

Btw whole intention was the interaction of curfew with the strong enter battlefield creatures commonly used in nic fit therefore both 2x witness and snappy.

Don't think you want to keep replaying Zenaga or Thragtusk over and over because they'll likely win by hitting once the battlefield. Zenaga without having Tusk already in play is underwhelming and feels like a Win-more. If you want a big blue card drawer, try Consecrated Sphinx. I would max the synergy of snapcaster/jace (bluecount) and spot solutions like Abrupt Decay than running a parallel angle with Whitness to rebuy Creatures and deeds, which both don't interact with MegaMan. That said, i still prefer the synergy of Abrupt Decay, Whitness and Zenith for a stream of destruction.

Reducing the copies of Zenith and Explorer doesn't make any sense because they carry the concept. Chopping LED's and Dark Rituals in TES would be a similar mistake

[litenkatt]

@ HoneyT
That sideboard. Jesus. Do you board in 15 cards vs. combo or something? :D
That list looks super sweet, gotta test it out. One question, though: What land would you replace if you absolutely had to cram Stronghold in, and is it's absence more of a "doesn't do much, land might as well be colored" or a "the lack of coloured mana actively makes the deck a good bit worse" kind of thing? /recursionaddict

I played a GPT to finals with p-fire nic fit with 15 anti-combo cards in SB. I conceded the finals though since i'm not going to Strasbourg(?) so he could have the 3 byes.

Also that tournament I _ONLY_ played against combo decks(serious).

Reanimate
"New" reanimate (tin fins?)
Cephalid Breakfast
Sneak and show
High tide

So yeah, I think p-fire with anti combo sb is the best way to go if u want to win against combo. It's boing as hell, granted, but better than losing

[Star|Scream]

Dang, I was hoping the Gruul fuse spell was going to be a viable wish target...


Armed {1}{R}
Sorcery
Target creature gain +1/+1 and double strike until end of turn.
/ <Fuse>
Dangerous {3}{G}
Sorcery
All creatures able to block target creature do so this turn.
Uncommon

[eldpojken]

Hi! Newly regged user. Lurked for a while. Been playing Magic since Ice Age. Nic Fit is cool so now I join the discussion!


Suggestions? Don't start a Nic Fit deck by chopping Explorers and Zeniths

If you go for blue snapcaster should replace Whitness completely

I think this is a very narrow minded way to think about deck design. Every card in every deck is there (or at least SHOULD be there) for a reason. Now obviously both Explorer and Zenith yfill important roles for Nic Fit as an archetype but automatically dismissing any list without 4 of each seems dubious.

As for drfontaine's specific list I can definately see reasons for trimming both numbers. The overall curve of this list seems lower than most Nic Fit builds and does not seem as dependant on ramping as other lists which needs something like 6+ mana in order to win because this list plays 4 Jace that can be cast (as evidenced by many other archetypes) without explorer ramp. Also with Snapcaster and Curfew this list can interact more than usual in the early stages of the game. Vs some decks, as most here seem to realize, ramping with explorer is not even what you want to be doing, and in the late game Explorer can often be a bad draw. 3 seem fine since you need to make sacrifices somewhere in order to be able to play FoW with a reliable enough blue count and I feel Explorer is a fine trim. Similarily Zenith seems trimmable as this list doesn't play that many targets as some other lists, Explorer isn't as crucial as I have already explained and with Brainstorm and Jace can be found more reliably.

I also don't think Zegana is win more and even with just a Witness or Snapcaster in play, drawing 3 card's should be a strong enough play to solidify the gamestate in your favour. Playing a Zenithable threat (that is also blue) I feel is MUCH better than playing a Consecrated Sphinx even though that obviously is also a very powerful card (I don't like Empath fwiw). However my concern is that Zegana still might be a bit underpowered and that something like Primeval Titan would be better. Still the issue of the bluecount is very relevant.

As for Witness I think it is very strong in this list with Curfew, Brainstorm, Jace etc, both for returning them and for blocking. Snapcaster is strong as well but I wouldn't want to play too many as there aren't that many targets and he can't be Zenithed.

All in all seems like a solid list with better game 1 against combo than most other Nic Fit lists I've seen but maybe it does give up a bit much vs other archetypes?

Further discussion would be interesting!

[Bobmans]

Is Sarkhan Vol ever considered in the PFire version or is it tooo cute?
His +1 speeds up GSZ target, hasty Primetime sounds cute.
The -2 Ability looks usefull in different scenario's. Like S&T drops Emmy and passes turn.
And his ultimate is kinda like Garruk PH, but are smaller and have evasion and combined always deal 20 damage unblocked.

[Viridia]

Still cannot abandon the idea of playing BUG nicfit with main FOW...

What you guys feel about this list?


2 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
2 Curfew
2 Counterspell
3 Force of Will

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ponder
3 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Pernicious Deed

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Island
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 3 Counterbalance
SB: 1 Skeletal Scrying
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Sensei's Divining Top

19 Blue cards main now which is kinda how low i'd ever go to play fow main :/, however kinda unsure about counterspell since UU cost..

Any suggestions?



List looks interesting, however i agree that cutting Explorers really hurts the deck. Most games that i can't get started quickly enough is simply because of not getting Explorer online.
Only 1 Spotremoval is alos really pushing it, you're relying on Deed or Counters to get everything done is really difficult.
Snapcaster Mage also isn't very amazing, considering that there are only 10 spells in the deck you'd really want to flashback, aka Counterspell, Ponder, BS, Curfew and the 1 Pulse, however, i do like the idea of Curfew for Witness Shenanigans.


I'd try starting with something like :
-1 Ponder
-2 Snapcaster
-1 Underground Sea

+1 Veteran Explorer
+1 Maelstrom Pulse/Abrupt Decay
+1 Tropical Island
+1 Vendilion Clique/Venser, Shaper Savant - these also work really well with Curfew, and are badly needed for the blue count.

That leaves you with 17 Blue cards, which should be enough for 3x FoW to work.
If you feel you're light on Blue cards, i'd probably cut the Sensei's Divining Tops for either Coiling Oracles or more Cliques/Vensers. Having 1 Coiling Oracle makes zenithing for X=2 something you can actually do aswell if needed.




That said, here's the list i'm probably taking to GP Strasbourg:


23 Lands

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Creeping Tar Pit

12 Creatures

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
1 Thragtusk
2 Eternal Witness
1 Terastodon

8 Instants

4 Brainstorm
2 Gifts Ungiven
2 Abrupt Decay

6 Sorceries

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Enchantments

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare


7 Planeswalkers

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Karn Liberated
1 Tamiyo, the Moon's Sage

Sideboard

3 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Force of Will
1 Memoricide
1 Flusterstorm
2 Negate
1 Damnation



The mainboard feels quite good, it has a couple of spot removals to get you through the early-game if you can't ramp up, the Strix' are amazing Recurring Nightmare Fodder and the best blockers/planeswalker protectors ever :)


The sideboard is mainly geared towards beating Combo, and an extra Damnation vs Tribal/Aggro, so that you can also Gifts for either 4x Removal or Deed/Damnation/Witness/Recurring Nightmare.

[HoneyT]

@ HoneyT
That sideboard. Jesus. Do you board in 15 cards vs. combo or something? :D
That list looks super sweet, gotta test it out. One question, though: What land would you replace if you absolutely had to cram Stronghold in, and is it's absence more of a "doesn't do much, land might as well be colored" or a "the lack of coloured mana actively makes the deck a good bit worse" kind of thing? /recursionaddict

Haha it depends on the combo deck. Against High Tide absolutely! Against TES it's a mere 12 =P

In all seriousness, this is a good a time as any to talk about my sideboard seeing as how there's quite a bit of discussion about it.

This is the basics of the deck: Rape the fair decks. Lose most game 1's to combo. Do not lose games 2 and 3 to combo. That's it in a nutshell. The fact of the matter is my Punishing Fire list is so good against the fair decks, it allows me to dedicate my sideboard space to combo where the help is greatly needed. That being said, Legacy is a very broad format. Sideboard space is valuble and each slot needs to be thought out carefully. The cards need to overlap if possible to strengthen other matchups to make the most efficient use of your space. I'll give a quick rundown of my current sideboard to explain what I mean.

2x Thoughtseize - Great against combo of all varieties and also used in fair matchups when I board out some number of Explorers/Therapies.
3x Surgical Extraction - Obviously good against graveyard decks, but very good against other combo decks too in conjunction with the discard spells. You can really make it difficult for some decks to win by making them discard a key card then getting rid of the rest of them too.
2x Slaughter Games - Similar to Extractions, these are also great against Miracles as an uncounterable way of stripping their very few win conditions.
3x Red Elemental Blast - Insane against Show and Tell and High Tide as far as combo goes, and great against the fair blue decks as well. Nuking cantrips out of Storm is perfectly fine when it's backing your discard.
3x Carpet of Flowers - This one is actually mostly for the fair decks in which I board out Explorers or want the additional ramp vs RUG, but again serves multiple purposes as it also is great against Island based combo a la High Tide, Show and Tell, etc..
2x Mindbreak Trap - This is the only card in the board that doesn't really serve multiple purposes. The maindeck is so favored against the fair decks that we don't need to spend much sideboard space to deal with them. This allows us to play a few narrow cards that just kill some combo decks. Storm is the most prevalent combo deck where I'm at, so Mindbreak Trap is where I'm at. This slot could just as easily be dedicated slots to Sneak and Show in some metagames as that's my list's current biggest weakness. There's not much of it in my meta, so I'm not dedicating any slots to it. It's very hard for them to win post-board if they don't find Leyline of Sanctity anyway.

TL;DR: We kick the shit out of fair decks. Use most sideboard space for combo.

@ Zombie:

As for the Volrath's Stronghold, as much as I love the card, it's just not needed right now. The colored requirements in this deck are a big deal and Kessig Wolf Run is a way better colorless land. I wouldn't cut a land for it, it would be a spell slot or the 61st card if I felt the deck needed it.

@ Bobmans:

I've considered Sarkhan Vol. He just doesn't seem like he does enough. The deck doesn't play that many creatures to make his 1st ability that great. He doesn't really do anything on an empty board, where Garruk just takes over the entire game. The second ability would be cute if you're guaranteed to kill them or have a Phyrexian Tower or Therapy in the yard, but again doesn't do anything by himself. Overall he's just not worth it. I'd rather play the more powerful planeswalker.

@ drfontaine:

That list certainly looks interesting. It's certainly worth toying around with, though I agree with the initial changes Viridia suggested.

@ Viridia:

Good luck in Strasbourg! Make sure to keep us posted!

[Tao]

- My advice would be to not ever reduce the numbers of GSZ and/or Explorers below 4. I have done it before because I thought I needed the room and it was always a mistake. GSZ is nothing but a blessing for this deck: In the opening hand it is the difference between a keep and a Mulligan and in the late game you are happy when you topdeck it. There is no way in hell you can find 57 better cards than GSZ.
This is an Explorer deck so play 4 of them. It also lets you maximize the number of Explorer/Therapy starts. Explorer and GSZ also have synergy: if you have both you can make a big GSZ instead of using it for Explorer.

- Imo Sarkhan Vol and Prime Speaker Zegana are both bad. Planeswalkers have to defend themselves AND create value. Sarkhan does neither... And 6-drops have to be good even if they hit the board by themselves because that will frequently happen in a deck full of Deeds in a format full of Removal and Countermagic.

[jbone2016]

- My advice would be to not ever reduce the numbers of GSZ and/or Explorers below 4. I have done it before because I thought I needed the room and it was always a mistake. GSZ is nothing but a blessing for this deck: In the opening hand it is the difference between a keep and a Mulligan and in the late game you are happy when you topdeck it. There is no way in hell you can find 57 better cards than GSZ.
This is an Explorer deck so play 4 of them. It also lets you maximize the number of Explorer/Therapy starts. Explorer and GSZ also have synergy: if you have both you can make a big GSZ instead of using it for Explorer.

- Imo Sarkhan Vol and Prime Speaker Zegana are both bad. Planeswalkers have to defend themselves AND create value. Sarkhan does neither... And 6-drops have to be good even if they hit the board by themselves because that will frequently happen in a deck full of Deeds in a format full of Removal and Countermagic.

I'm going to try a Deathrite shaman instead of a 3rd top for the scg this weekend. Either that or cut a thoughtseize or the starved ruskla.

[Tao]

For Rector question you have to ask Arian. I haven't played with it in a long time.

@BUG players: What are your experiences with FoW in the SB? Against TES/ANT it happened relatively frequently that I would have FoW + Negate/Mindbreak Trap and they would probe+Therapy me. Then they could take the Trap/Negate with Therapy and kill me with a dead FoW in hand. I also don't want to bring in Mindbreak Trap and Negate against Elves but then I don't have enoguh blue cards to support FoW (which I would want to stop Glimpses).

I think of cutting it for a mix of Thoughtseizes and Carpets.

[eldpojken]

Taking everyones suggestions into consideration regarding drfontaine's BUG list I tinkered a bit with it and came up with this:

CREATURES (14)
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Coiling Oracle
4 Baleful Strix
2 Eternal Witness
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

ENCHANTMENTS (3)
3 Pernicious Deed

SORCERIES (8)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun’s Zenith

INSTANTS (9)
4 Brainstorm
2 Curfew
3 Force of Will

PLANESWALKERS (5)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage

LANDS (21)
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Island

SIDEBOARD
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Thoughtseize
2 Chill
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Engineered Plague
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Force of Will

The list has a blue count of 20 maindeck. I am not a huge fan of Coiling Oracle but it's a blue card that is Zenithable at least. 21 lands with 2 Tar Pit might be pushing it but I think that playing Primeval Titan is the most reliable but still powerful threat when playing Zenith and is really strong with 2 Tar Pit. I cut Snapcasters due to low target count. Strix I think really puts this list together as it is a blue card that is quasi removal which allows you to hopefully get away without any Decays, Pulses or otherwise and instead stall with Strix/Oracle and Curfew shenanigans until you can Deed.

Tamiyo was added to be another blue bomb but might not be good enough. 4 Jace seems really good for this list. I am skeptical about the complete removal of Sensei Top (which was made to get blue count satisfactory) but might be possible due to 4 Brainstorm and 4 Jace, which both don't have the best synergy with Top.

I kept 4 Explorer and 4 Zenith but I still think that for this type of list (with fewer top end cards and potentially less need for the ramp) it could be possible to trim them for more blue cards or maybe put in some Tops again.
I have too little experience with BUGfit to really make good judgements about the mana base so maybe I have too few duals, maybe their numbers should be swapped, maybe tweak the amount of basics, and maybe add another land total.

For the board I put in an extra Clique and Venser to pad bluecount vs combo as well as the 4th Force. Chill was added in spite of bad synergy with Deed to give some potential vs Burn strategies but is probably not enough. I also put Thrun in the board as my experience is that he is mostly a roadblock rather than a beater and with 4 Strix and Oracle you already have plenty of that in the main, but hexproof can be really strong so I like having the effect in the 75.

Thoughts?

[eldpojken]

For Rector question you have to ask Arian. I haven't played with it in a long time.

@BUG players: What are your experiences with FoW in the SB? Against TES/ANT it happened relatively frequently that I would have FoW + Negate/Mindbreak Trap and they would probe+Therapy me. Then they could take the Trap/Negate with Therapy and kill me with a dead FoW in hand. I also don't want to bring in Mindbreak Trap and Negate against Elves but then I don't have enoguh blue cards to support FoW (which I would want to stop Glimpses).

I think of cutting it for a mix of Thoughtseizes and Carpets.

This is a big reason why I dislike FoW in the board and playing less than 19-20 blue cards maindeck when playing it. It is also why it is so hard to build a deck with both Brainstorm and GSZ, Nic Fit or not, since it puts so much constraint on the overall deck design. If there could ever be a Nic Fit list with say 22 blue cards maindeck with FoW, still have 4 Therapy and healthy amounts of Explorers and Therapy, and enough good threats for Zenith then I think it would be a strong contender for "best" deck in Legacy, even though that is obviously a very abstract and contextual concept.

[Tao]

I really like this one for Rector versions and maybe for others too:

Varolz, the Scar-Striped 1BG
Legendary Creature - Troll Warrior
Each creature card in you graveyard has scavenge. The scavenge cost is equal to its mana cost.
Sacrifice another creature: Regenerate Valroz, the Scar-Striped.
2/2

Just one more Mana than Starved Rusalka (if you count the activation cost) and it gives much better value. Scavenging Explorers for one Mana is solid and at some point you might just Scavenge a Titan. Not insane but solid and might make the difference in grindy games.

[Arianrhod]

I really like this one for Rector versions and maybe for others too:

Varolz, the Scar-Striped 1BG
Legendary Creature - Troll Warrior
Each creature card in you graveyard has scavenge. The scavenge cost is equal to its mana cost.
Sacrifice another creature: Regenerate Valroz, the Scar-Striped.
2/2

Just one more Mana than Starved Rusalka (if you count the activation cost) and it gives much better value. Scavenging Explorers for one Mana is solid and at some point you might just Scavenge a Titan. Not insane but solid and might make the difference in grindy games.

Strongly agreed. The only thing that I don't like about him is that his decision trees are going to be very complex. Rector in particular is based heavily about graveyard recursion due to the presence of, and ease of access to, Recurring Nightmare. So by scavenging dead creatures, even things you might not usually want to get back ever like Explorers, you can end up harming yourself in the long run.

That's not saying that I think he isn't playable or any such -- just that we can't willy-nilly scavenge freely like we might want to.

I'll likely start by testing him alongside Rusalka and see if/how often the 1 extra mana makes a difference. I know I've (rarely) been sufficiently up shit creek mana-wise that being able to Zenith@1 and then pay for Rusalka's sacrifice on my next turn has sometimes been a thing. I'll also want to evaluate how often I scavenge in real game scenarios vs how often I want to keep options open for Nightmare.

Note: I think that this guy is insane for the more creature-heavy aggro-based G/B versions of yore....the ones that used to run like Strangleroot Geist and were much more aggressive in general. I'm not sure he's enough to resurrect the subarchetype, but it's possible.

[Ayotte]

For Rector question you have to ask Arian. I haven't played with it in a long time.

@BUG players: What are your experiences with FoW in the SB? Against TES/ANT it happened relatively frequently that I would have FoW + Negate/Mindbreak Trap and they would probe+Therapy me. Then they could take the Trap/Negate with Therapy and kill me with a dead FoW in hand. I also don't want to bring in Mindbreak Trap and Negate against Elves but then I don't have enoguh blue cards to support FoW (which I would want to stop Glimpses).

I think of cutting it for a mix of Thoughtseizes and Carpets.

I loved it. I've played your BUG list in the past couple of local tournaments and I've had FoW win me a match vs. Aluren and one vs. TES. I did lose a match to ANT because of the situation you describe. I have two more local tournaments before Milwaukee where I will continue to test it out. If I don't play FoW, it's very tempting to just play Scapeshift.

[Tao]

I loved it. I've played your BUG list in the past couple of local tournaments and I've had FoW win me a match vs. Aluren and one vs. TES. I did lose a match to ANT because of the situation you describe. I have two more local tournaments before Milwaukee where I will continue to test it out. If I don't play FoW, it's very tempting to just play Scapeshift.

One or two pages ago someone asked why the deck doesn't play 4 Deeds and for BUG I had no answer. So I added a fourth Deed and also a 4th Decay and removed the 2 Inquisitions.

With this I think that replacing Liliana with Vendilion Clique could be good. With 4 Decay/ 4 Deed maindeck you still have a lot of Removal. The deck gets weaker against high CC creatures but there aren't many Tombstalkers at the moment. This would give more blue cards for the FoW count. The difference between 17 and 19 is quite noticeable.

I am also still undecided between Engineered Plague and Damnation. Damnation is good against Merfolk, RUG and decks with Tombstalker, Plague is good against Goblins, Elves and Dredge. Both are good against Mother of Runes + Phyrexian Revoker.

Overall I think the deck is almost perfect, just a few little adjustments are needed.

[Star|Scream]

Body (Left) 3BG

Sorcery Rare

Exile target creature from a graveyard, put X +1/+1 counters on target creature. X equal to the power of target card you exiled this way.

Blood(Right) RG

Sorcery Rare

Target creature you control deals damage equal to its power to target creature or target player.

Fuse (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand.)


Possible wish target? It doesn't do anything that reanimate or maelstrom pulse can't already do, but they are on the same card. Seems doubtful to me.

[Arianrhod]

Seems incredibly dubious, and I'm more than a tad disappointed that that's our fuse card -- at rare, nonetheless!

I mean, really? One activation of Scavenge for 3BG? =/

Making a really big dude doesn't do anything for me -- I'd rather run Reanimate and get the come-into-play triggers (and the ability to steal from your opponents' graveyard). Soul's Fire doesn't really do anything for me either. Best case you spend 2 cards and 4 mana to do 5-6 damage to something, which doesn't seem worth it.

[guelahpapyrus]

Vralz would combo really well with Death's Shadow if there was a way to incorporate that into an aggro nic fit.

[Bobmans]

Does anyone have a recent list of the 4c rector version?

[Viridia]

My list hasn't really changed, should be able to find it still :)




Mainboard (60)

22 Lands
2 Bayou
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs

15 Creatures
3 Academy Rector
3 Baleful Strix
2 Eternal Witness
2 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Thorn


21 Other spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Moat
1 Omniscience
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vindicate
1 Abrupt Decay


2 Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (15)

1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Memoricide
1 Nether Void
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Damnation
1 Something - probably anti-Deathrite

[Zombie]

Finally sleeved up HoneyT's Punishing Fit (the 60 cards because I forgot the Stronghold D:). Based on a few games, this thing feels odd. My first instinct is that I want more discard and/or card draw. Probably discard, so I can get more information.

Also, I've never played an Explorer deck before - my Highlander is highly similar to Rector Fit but Explorer is just not viable in that format. I'm especially puzzled as to how you're supposed to utilize Explorers G1 vs. things like UW Miracles/Landstill or UR Delver.

[Qweerios]

@Tao,

I probably wouldn't touch Liliana in a BUG list with Jace because double black is too prohibitive, especialy if you are trying to make FoW work. Clique is a good idea for a replacement, I did play a couple of Cliques in my first attempts to BUG and it works fine.

What do you think of a split between Decay and Far // Away? I think the new card has potential in BUG Fit because it comes down fast enough, offers instant sac ability which can be lacking when Liliana is removed, and fusing the card is a small feat for Nic Fit. It can also act as a double removal spell when you are able to flash a Therapy. I also love how smooth it is to get rid of 2 attackers at the end of an opponent's turn just to slam a Jace during your own. Not only is it good to cripple your opponent, it is also great to generate value and/or save creatures when the Far portion of the spell is applied to Clique/Thragtusk/Witness/Snapcaster and the Away part on your opponent. I am looking forward to see how Far // Away will affect Nic Fit, perhaps it will enable FoW more consistently

[slikwilly]

What do you think of a split between Decay and Far // Away? I think the new card has potential in BUG Fit because it comes down fast enough, offers instant sac ability which can be lacking when Liliana is removed, and fusing the card is a small feat for Nic Fit. It can also act as a double removal spell when you are able to flash a Therapy. I also love how smooth it is to get rid of 2 attackers at the end of an opponent's turn just to slam a Jace during your own. Not only is it good to cripple your opponent, it is also great to generate value and/or save creatures when the Far portion of the spell is applied to Clique/Thragtusk/Witness/Snapcaster and the Away part on your opponent. I am looking forward to see how Far // Away will affect Nic Fit, perhaps it will enable FoW more consistently

That card looks pretty sweat. Best thing I think I've seen spoiled. Each half is good, we can afford to pay the combined cost, and each half has synergistic applications for us with death triggers and ETB triggers which means it's not even completely dead vs decks that don't win via combat. Seems like a good addition to push BUG versions forward.

[Ayotte]

Tao: I spent 8 hours today jamming games vs Stoneblade and ANT with your BUG list (-3 Extraction, +2 Extirpate, +1 Thoughtseize in board) trying to see how good those matchups were compared to Scapewish. People at my LGS don't really play those decks much so I wasn't that experienced.

ANT was obviously a better matchup than with other Nic Fit lists, but the problem was, even with all of the counterspells, he was able to go off almost every game because I lack an early clock. He was boarding in Dark Confidant, which I'm not sure is normal, and it was REALLY good post-board. My clock was basically Ooze, Thrun, or Jace, and if I couldn't stick one early, that was it. I often couldn't stick one early because I needed to keep hands with counterspells and/or discard, which he was still able to fight through with his own discard and good play. Boarding for this, I was taking out the fat creatures, Deeds, and 3 Veteran Explorers for the blue cards, leaving in Abrupt Decay for the Carpet of Flowers/Bobs that he was bringing in. I don't like Explorer in this matchup because it basically just gives him a free ritual for the rest of the game, and since I was boarding out the big creatures, there wasn't really anything to ramp to.

Stoneblade seemed close to 50-50, with them favored post board. He brought in geists, and since I didn't really have much to bring in, his deck was the much better Jace deck with geist, lingering souls, and mystic. How would you board for this matchup? I always brought in 2 Extirpate and 1 Thoughtseize for 3 Abrupt Decays. I also tried boarding out Liliana or Explorers for negates. Even though it sucks to give him mana to batterskull/snapcaster/jace early, I think we need to keep in explorers because the games I won were those with Therapy/Explorer/Thrun or Thragtusk hands.

I have a feeling that my sideboard plans might have been pretty far from optimal. If they weren't, I think I'll just play Scapeshift at Milwaukee tomorrow.

Edit: Anyone at Milwaukee, I'll be in the crowd of people with the Mox Mania shirts. Come say hi.

[Qweerios]

Here is my latest attempt at BUG Nic Fit with Far // Away:


Creatures (8)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

Spells (30)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
2 Far // Away
3 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Pernicious Deed

Lands (22)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
3 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Negate
1 Force of Will
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

[plogan]

So I ran the following Rector list in a local 32 man today and went 2-3 so attached is a short report and the list. Any advice would be much appreciated!

The Deck

Creatures[U]

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Academy Rector
2x Baneslayer Angel
2x Eternal Witness
1x Sigarda
1x Thragtusk
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sun Titan
1x Fierce Empath
1x Starved Rusalka
1x Yosei, the Morning Star

[U]Spells

4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Recycle
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Moat

Lands[U]
3x Forest
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Windswept Heath
2x Phyrexian Tower
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland

[U]Sideboard

3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Extripate
1x Humility
1x Nethervoid
1x Curse of Death's Hold
1x Ifh-Biff Efreet
1x Angel of Despair
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Memoricide
1xCranial Extraction
1x Divine Intervention (this is an attempt at a super troll for some people and could be a potential emergy eject button)

Round 1 Rug Delver (0-2)

G1: On the draw I don't know what I'm up against blind therapy a brainstorm off of a bayou. Promptly draw phyrexian tower and dryad arbor and have the bayou wasted. I'm presented with a tough situation to either flashback therapy hitting his double daze and taking me to 2 lands with a pulse and rector and deed in hand to his flipped delver and mongoose. I pass up the chance and proceed to get crushed.

G2: On the play I keep a decent 7 and proceed to set of an explorer with no top end. I quickly die to triple lighting bolt and double mongeese.

Round 2: Combo Elves (Craterhoof/Natural Order variant) (2-0)

G1: The rust falls off as he opens with fetch to basic to drs. I slam top when I have both therapy and explorer in hand. His second turn he fetchs another forest and right as it dawns on me that hes playing elves, he drops glimpse. He only draws like 2 cards and I imeadietly follow with a therapy naming glimpse (hit) and see craterhoof. I then flashback on the explorer taking it. Rector shenaningans happen shortley after resulting in a moat staring down a single deathrite shaman. About 6 shuffle effects later I finally find the Garruk to grab a flyer and cause him to scoop.

G2: I keep a therpy 7 and wiff naming glimpse and see his 2 symbiotes a crop rotation and a quiron ranger. I proceed to memoricide his glimpes (hitting all 4 in his deck) and then drop moat. I find a sigarda much more quickly this game and he scoops.

Round 3 Goblins (2-0) (aka the reason why rusalka isn't getting the axe upon dragon's maze)

G1: I win the die roll and proceed to see a piledriver dropped on my face. Fortunately my hand contains all three pernicious deed. The first couple of deeds buy me enough time to finally dig for the moat staving him off with me at 6. He then matrons for siege-gang commander to my sigarda. I spin a top at the end of his turn find a fetch and not much else, however he only has 2 mountains in play so I have a turn to not die, however he is at 9 at this point and I can't push the damage through as the eternal witness is in play is grounded. So I cracked the fetch and re-spun the top finding Green Sun's Zenith. This in turn leaves me with enough mana to search for rusalka and leave 2 green up. I get it swing with sigarda, and take him to 4. He draws a card and passes. On my next attack step he attempts to kill me with me at 5 and him able to do 6 damage. Ruslaka then eats eternal witness and itself leaving me at 1 and him at -1 with the sigarda swing.

G2: I keep a solid hand of explorer, lands, deed maelstrom pulse, and empath. He doesnt have lacky so I drop explorer, which promptley gets path to exiled. Next turn I drop empath finding Sun Titan. He drops more goblins (including double piledriver) some attack happen and i drop to 12. Pernicious Deed drops and explodes. There is little backlash to the deed, which is quickly followed by Sun Titan recursion.

Round 4: Elves (0-2) (Emrakul Classic Style)

G1: He starts with an agressive hand and I immeadietly pick up on the elves plan. This time I therapy on glimpse and wiff seeing summoners pact. I then proceed to miss a couple land drops until eventually I drop a rector and sac it finding moat. This then stalls him out for a while, but eventually he finds the glimpse and I'm dead to a giant tentacle monster

G2: I use the appropriate therapy names and wiff. He ended up keeping a slow hand to which i eventually cast a nethervoid. His board state is fairly large at this time so I deploy a deed to attempt to not die, this in turn dies to his one of two abrupt decays while I'm tapped out. Eventually a Green Sun's Zenith with a total cost of 12 is dropped which leaves me a craterlike position.

Round 5: Jund (0-2)

G1: I mull to 5 as the first hand was a 1 lander and the second a no lander. I quickly die to some combination of goyf, deathrite, and bloodbraid elf.

G2: I keep a decent hand containing both moat and sigarda. Sigarda got discarded by a hymn and moat then happens. Eventually I find a deed and drop it to his double deathrite shamans and bloodbraid elf. I then drop Sun Titan with the intention of reccuring deed only to have my dreams promptly crushed by a Liliana. To put some salt in the wound, the next turn I drew Memoricide. Eventually I die to a combination of punishing fires and deathrite.

All in all it was a fine tournament and the deck handled pretty well. The main deck I've noticed I'm having trouble with is jund. The meta were several Delver decks, several Elves decks, 4 Dredge decks, and primarily Stoneblade. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Bobmans]

Spoiler from Dragon's Maze Varolz, the Scar-Striped in combination with Phyrexian Dreadnought


I am seeing this in some kind of BUG fit list with Stifles and other stuff. Owh man how i love to see Full English Breakfast back on its feet in Legacy.

http://i.imgur.com/uikC1jL.png

[Tao]

@Ayotte:

- Against Stoneforge always side out Wurmcoils first. They will just get Sworded for a giant Tempo loss. Bring in Negates, too.
- When I made the SB Stoneblade was not a thing. This has changed a lot recently. So I would play with 3 Carpet of Flowers in the SB now. They are great against RUG and BUG, too. SB slots are an issue.

This would be what I would play today:

3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Creeping Tar Pit

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Damnation
4 Brainstorm
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap



Esper Stoneblade:
- 3 Veteran Explorer
- 2 Damnation
- 2 Abrupt Decay
- 2 Wurmcoil Engine
+ 3 Surgical Extraction
+ 3 Negate
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers

TES / ANT / Sneak and Tell / High Tide:
- 4 Abrupt Decay
- 4 Pernicious Deed
- 2 Damnation
- 2 Wurmcoil Engine
- 1 Thragtusk
- 1 Thrun
- 1 Swamp
+ 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Negate
+ 2 Mindbreak Trap
+ 2 Surgical Extraction
+ 0-3 Carpet of Flowers (Depending on deck. Also you might want to keep Deeds in the deck for Empty the Warrens or like you said Decay for Confidants.)

RUG:
- 1 Primeval Titan
- 2 Jace TMS
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers


BUG Delver:
- 1 Primeval Titan
- 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers

BUG Control / Shardless BUG:
- it really depends on how Aggro they are; maybe side out Explorers, maybe keep them
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers
+ maybe Negate

[jbone2016]

So far, 1-1 in milwaukee. Beat punishing jund and lost to sneak/show. Somebody is play eggs here. I hate them.

[jbone2016]

So far, 1-1 in milwaukee. Beat punishing jund and lost to sneak/show. Somebody is play eggs here. I hate them.

1-2. Lost to trinsphere/tezz/smokestack. Very ew.

[Ayotte]

1-2. Lost to trinsphere/tezz/smokestack. Very ew.

2-2 with scapewish. beat ant and stoneblade. lost to a uw standstill/counterbalance/mystic brew and combo elves. also, yeah, the eggs player doesnt only hate himself, he hates everyone in the room.

[jbone2016]

2-2 with scapewish. beat ant and stoneblade. lost to a uw standstill/counterbalance/mystic brew and combo elves. also, yeah, the eggs player doesnt only hate himself, he hates everyone in the room.

Heh. 3-2 now. Beast esperblade twice

[HoneyT]

BUG Nic Fit on camera right now at SCG Milwaukee!

Anybody know if he's one of ours?

[conboy31]

I disagree with most of his technical plays. Make him have the 2nd snapcaster g1 and if not he gets to eat the ponder and another card. Failing to get 2 lands off the 2nd titan activation. G2 his clique play, can let him use up both fetches and clique in response to activation instead of in front of the first fetch. Glad hes done well enough to get the feature match though.

[Ayotte]

Heh. 3-2 now. Beast esperblade twice

4-2. beat miracles then sat next to jbone and beat ant again. i havent beaten ant more than twice with this deck in my entire life before today

[HoneyT]

4-2. beat miracles then sat next to jbone and beat ant again. i havent beaten ant more than twice with this deck in my entire life before today

Good job! Keep it up guys!

[Ayotte]

lost to dredge :( slaughter games got him game 2 but leyline of the void got me game 3.

[Ayotte]

lost to dredge :( slaughter games got him game 2 but leyline of the void got me game 3.

threw match 8 as hard as i could by killing my top with deed. feels real bad.

[Arianrhod]

=( Shitty.

Hopefully things go well in the rest of the day for you guys -- either way, I look forward to hearing your reports / thoughts over the next few days. I'll put up my report from my top 8 at Mythic tomorrow morning, as usual.

[Ayotte]

=( Shitty.

Hopefully things go well in the rest of the day for you guys -- either way, I look forward to hearing your reports / thoughts over the next few days. I'll put up my report from my top 8 at Mythic tomorrow morning, as usual.

lost round 9 to a dude with a UW control deck where literally every card was miscut and every one that could be was foil. i was starstruck. Edit: found pictures (http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/025483.html)

in 9 rounds i never once saw my random 1 of wurmcoil engine.

edit: i didnt have ruination and neither did the dealers or my group so i played tsunami instead. multiple games, my opponent had wastelands up and i had scapewish and burning wish but couldnt get ruination.

[Arianrhod]

@Ayotte -- Ruination probably wouldn't have helped anyway, unless all of your lands in play were basics.

Okay, so Mythic report time.

I decided Friday night that I was going to YOLO and run Scapewish into Mythic's traditionally combo/PFire-heavy meta. I wasn't particularly happy about it, but I was basically loaning out the rest of my collection to various people for various decks, and my only other option was Rector -- which has a few issues, I've realized, and needs some fixing before I can play it again.

I did make a few changes.

I ended up cutting the Garruk, Primal Hunter from the main, because as a 1-of it's basically just useless, and I don't have a 2nd slot to dedicate to another copy (which would arguably be the perfect solution). I batted around a ton of different ideas of things to try, but I eventually settled on evaluating the Kessig plan, and went:

-1 Garruk
-1 Huntmaster of the Fells
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+1 Kessig Wolf Run

I then also made the sideboard change of:

-1 Collective Voyage
-1 Ruination
+1 Huntmaster of the Fells
+1 Pulverize

Pulverize was LITERALLY because I just wasn't in the mood to lose to MUD/Staxxxx on Saturday. Ended up that there were 0 copies of either archetype in the room. Whoops. But hey, if I had run into it, I would have been prepared, dammit!

Thoughts at the end.

R1: Timur with Watchkeeping (the werewolf-based Dragon Stompy that's been running around lately).

This match ended up being some of the most retarded magic I've played in recent times. Game one we literally settle in with a bunch of werewolves on either side and just dance back and forth, flipping like crazy. He has a Moon on me, so I can't Scapeshift, but he also can't attack into me profitably. Eventually Deed happens, and we're off to game two.

I board in the 3rd Huntmaster...not sure what I took out.

Game two he gets me under a Chalice on 1, and then drops a Revoker naming Deed. Somewhere along the way a Moon joins the party. He can't find any pressure, though, and I had time to Wish for a Pulse to take out the Chalice, which lets me go Exploring, getting me further out from under the Moon. Somewhere along the way I reanimate my Eternal Witness to get back my Pulse to kill his Revoker, to blow Deed. I'm dead to Bonfire for several turns, but Timur floods out and I just kill him. I did have one derp moment where I forgot that he had a moon in play and thought that I had him actually just dead because of Wolf Run.....and then remembered as I swung that Wolf Run was a mountain =(

R2: Gary with RIP Miracles.

I remember this guy as playing Esperblade the last time I saw him at Mythic, so I'm content. Game one he leads with Top. I lead with Explorer to bait out a Swords, and he obliges. I ramp a bit with Tribe-Elders and Wood Elves while he Stoneforges for Batterskull. He forces something irrelevant, and I drop Deed. I manage to deed away his Batterskull at some point, but he drops RIP and Helm + activation all in the same turn. Well then.

I bring in the REBs, Slaughter Games, and the Huntmaster (in what continues a long tradition of boarding in that Huntmaster). Couple Explorers came out, as did 1x Therapy. I also boarded out the Phyrexian Tower here, because I didn't care as much with the Explorers out of the deck.

G2 He goes SFM -> Batterskull. I Burning Wish for Therapy, naming Batterskull. I Slaughter away his Helms, and then his Jaces. He can't win the game before I kill him by dropping Avenger of Zendikar, and then saccing one of the plants to Therapy away his Terminus. Classic game vs Miracles.

G3 he gets me under a quick Blood Moon. He has 1 Island and 1 Plains, so he can still do stuff, too. I had a basic Swamp after a Tribe-Elder, but no basic Forest. I end up going Burning Wish -> Reanimate -> Sakura-Tribe -> Forest. We go back and forth a bit. I Slaughter out his Helms and Jaces again, leaving him with just his Entreats (again). He has a seemingly endless stream of removal, but I eventually run him out and kill him. I purposefully never got rid of his Blood Moon, because ironically his Blood Moon probably won me the game, as he was locked off of double white. This marks the second time RIP Miracles has Mooned me and specifically lost because of it.

R3: Eli Kassis with RIP Miracles.

Moar miracles. Game one he wins the dire roll, and proceeds to go Top->RIP->pass->Helm with Force backup. Nice draw >_>

Same boarding scheme.

Game 2 I mulled to 5. I got a bit of ramp, but had no business. He had CounterTop, with a Jace in play. Eventually he started fatesealing me. I had a Scapeshift and a Therapy in hand from my opening hand, and was at 6 lands. He was within range of a 7-land shift. I played a Deed, and it managed to resolve through Counterbalance. Eventually, Eli let me keep a card on top. I deduced that it was a land, so EoT I blew Deed to get rid of Counterbalance and put a brick on top of his deck. I then untapped, drew and played my 7th land, and Therapied him, naming Counterspell since he had already Force/pitch Force earlier. I whiffed, but saw no countermagic....just a Brainstorm. I dropped the Scapeshift. He Brainstormed and didn't find a counter. Off to game three!

Game 3 he has a t1 Top t2 Counterbalance, which was a problem because I had one of those awkward "support card" hands. My Zenith@1 got blind counterbalanced, and then I was pretty much behind the 8-ball for the rest of the game. I eventually get a pair of Hunts out and am applying pressure, but he has a Helm in play and just needs to find RIP. I get him to something like 10 or 12 by the time his Top hits RIP. Rough beats =(

R4: Nick Patnode with Shardless BUG.

Nick pulls to 5 game one, and I have a nutty double Explorer -> Pyroclasm -> Scapeshift (Forced) -> Scapeshift draw.

Game two Nick sort of gets to play magic, but this matchup is so atrociously in my favor that it's never really close. I just hold the fort with ramp guys until Nick overcommits -- then Deed happens, then bad things happen.

R5: Doug McKay with U/R Delver.

I'm pretty concerned about this match going in. It's either a really good matchup, or a really bad one -- just depends on what hands I get and what hands he gets.

I have to mull away a GORGEOUS hand because it doesn't have green mana. It was something like Explorer, Tower, Thragtusk, Huntmaster, Zenith, Therapy, Mountain. I actually contemplated just raw-dogging it and hoping to get there, but I ended up being a good magic player and mulling it per the "no green mana" rule. He ends up having a ton of burn and my hand doesn't do enough to stop it.

Game two I have to mull to 5, and get a hand with a ton of ramp but nothing to ramp into. I ramp it up regardless, and am rewarded by drawing a Zenith to get Thragtusk after Deeding away 2 Delvers and a Grim Lavamancer. I'm still pretty low on life, and Doug's at 9. I topdeck a Scapeshift. Doug has one card in hand. I decide that the odds of me being just dead if he draws a Snapcaster next turn are greater than the odds of his 1 card being Price of Progress. His one card is Price of Progress, AND the top card was Snapcaster. Sometimes you literally just can't win.

R6: Nich with sort-of-Italia.

I went over the breaker math a bit, and a few people confirmed that if I won r6, I could probably make top 8 at 7th or 8th seed (38 people in the event, but people weren't IDing much, so the math was weird).

I've played Nich several times now, and it never ends well for him -- he always gets me close to death, and then I derp-win. Same thing happened game 1. We shredded each others' hands, and we both had a Top in play. He starts to aggro out while my Top shows me my other 2 Tops. The literal turn before death, my Top shows me Scapeshift as the 3rd-card down. I pop it and kill him.

Only board here was the Huntmaster that should have been main in the first place.

Game two pretty much follows game one's model, except this time Nich's Top is the one betraying him -- showing him useless Cabal Therapies. He's got me almost dead again from Grim Lavamancers and burn, but I keep stabilizing with Huntmasters, and threatening lethal because of Wolf Run. He runs out of removal, and dies.

I squeak in top 8 at 8th place.

Top 8: Junk

I don't remember the guy's name, sadly -- I know it was the first time I'd seen him at Mythic. His specific junk build had Mox Diamonds but no Hymns; the usual Deathrites, swords, KotRs, Goyfs, Bobs, and so on. He also had a singleton Elspeth, a couple Lingering Souls, and a few other interesting choices.

I mull to 5 because I can't hit lands in my opening hand. He leads off with a Marsh Flats and ships back. I do some ramp stuff, he makes a Bob and a KotR and proceeds to double-waste me. Knight gets big, and I proceed to draw literal nothing other than lands and ramp creatures. He's busy overcomitting like a motherfucker, but my deck opts not to punish him by drawing a Deed or a Wish. Or anything else, for that matter.

I mull to 5 because I can't hit lands in my opening hand, again. I do ramp things via Explorer/Therapy. He has his singleton Elspeth in hand. Pretty soon there's a pair of KotRs, and I'm, again, drawing nothing but lands. He deals me exactly lethal the turn before I was going to draw Scapeshift and kill him.

Very frustrating to lose such a good matchup just because I couldn't keep a hand or draw cards that did anything. But, meh. It happens. Considering that I wasn't expecting to top 8 on the day, I'll take it.

Now, as for the changes.

Thrun was useless. Again.
Wolf Run was useless.
Why the fuck was the 3rd Huntmaster not maindeck.
I missed Collective Voyage, as there were a few situations where I wanted a ramp wish target.
I also actually wanted an artifact/enchantment kill GSZ-guy for the first time ever; same with a Reverent Silence in the board, although I'm less sure about that one.

So, Thrun isn't staying, and nor is Wolf Run. Huntmaster #3 goes back maindeck, which means I have 1 maindeck open slot, and 2 sideboard open slots.

At this point I'm thinking either Collective Voyage + Damnation or Collective Voyage + Reverent Silence for the board, and some kind of naturalize-guy for the maindeck. I'm still undecided on whether or not I ACTUALLY want it, or whether that was just a product of my matchups. I really, really wish there was some kind of green creature that drew cards =(

[jbone2016]

Savageborn Hydra
XRG
Creature - Hydra Mythic Rare
Double Strike
Savageborn Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
1 (r/g): Put a +1/+1 counter on Savageborn Hydra. Activate this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.

Well...

[Star|Scream]

Since it's 0/0 you can't GSZ for it. Realistically it'll be a 6/6 or less when it etb from your hand. It can grow by 4 a turn, which is good, I suppose. But isn't a GSZ into a primetime into a wolf run just better?

[Ayotte]

@Ayotte -- Ruination probably wouldn't have helped anyway, unless all of your lands in play were basics.

Once at least, I remember thinking of that and realizing that I had 6 basics in play and could hold the nonbasics in hand until post-Ruination.

[TheArchitect]

I also went to mythic but played punishing fire instead of the usual scapeshift. I just lost a lot so I'm not going to bother with a report. Besides my round 4 Match where I played terrible, I actually played pretty well I think and there was just nothing I could do.

R1 TES 0-2
R2 UB Tezz 2-0
R3 Reanimator 0-2
R4 BUG tempo 0-2
R5 TES 0-2
R6 Drop

The deck is great, I just shouldn't play it at mythic where 1 in 3 people is playing tendrils of agony or griselbrand.

I dropped, played in a grinder and qualified for the Invitational though so that's all that really mattered.

[Star|Scream]

Went 3-0-2 locally with Scapewish

Goblins 2-0
Big zoo 2-0 (he had a game loss for deck reg game 1)
Miracles 1-1 (Game 3 started as time was called)
Rug 2-0
ID round 5

Lost 0-2 to the same Rug player in top 8.

Same list as Arianhrod before his changes. At one point I actually wished that I did have Thrun. Something to repeatedly chump mongeese and goyfs that couldn't be bolted would have been nice.

[jbone2016]

Alrighty, report from Legacy (combo) challenge first.

Round 1: Sneak/show. with maindeck stifles
Game 1: Early beats got him down to 11 but sneaky grisel does me in. In: thoughtseize, humility, extirpate, surgical, cranial extraction, o-ring, gaddock teeg?
Game 2: I mulligan once. He shows in a FSM but I have a rector and tower in play. So I rector in humility before the attack and proceed to beat him down with 1/1's
Game 3: Breached FSM does me in quickly.

Round 2: ANT
Game 1: He sculpts his hand until he wishes for diminishing returns and tendrils me out. In: 2x Leyline of sanctity, thoughtseize, 2x traps, both extractions, teeg, extripate, curse of exhaustion
Game 2: I strip his hand a bit and drop the curse. He can't get out of it.
Game 3: Mulligan for him.....and pretty much the same as game 2.

Round 3: Reanimator
Game 1: Grisel does me in pretty early. In: Humility, extractions, thoughtseize, extripate, o-ring, batterskull
Game 2: I think I extracted his Grisel after a discard and proceed to win from there.
game 3: He had the nuts: entomb grisel, reanimate.....yeah....fair magic....

Round 4: Dredge
Game 1: Some early dredges for him but I get sun titan/deed lock going. In: Extirpate, surgical, thoughtseize, batterskull?
Game 2: Ramped up into an early Baneslayer and she cleaned house from there.

3 crappy matchup and 1 decent one. 2-2.
The list is still pretty close to Ari's rector list (-1 elder, +1 deathrite, -1 baneslayer, +1 thrun, -1 moat, +1 lily, -1 vindicate, +1 abrupt decay, -1 recycle, +1 thoughtseize)
SB is: elspeth x1, sorin x1, teeg x1, batterskull x1, surgical x1, extirpate x1, o-ring x1, thoughtseize x1, cranial extraction x1, 1 humility, 1 curse of exhaustion, 2 mindbreak trap, 2 leyline of sanctity

[Arianrhod]

I'm on an "improve Rector" binge at the moment. At the moment, I literally can't find a reason to run Rector over Scapewish, and that's bugging me. The primary issue is that Rector is incapable of killing your opponent effectively. It can sit there and durdle for days, but it usually can't actually close the deal. Additionally, Scapewish has a legitimate beatdown option as provided by Huntmaster and Thragtusk, which Rector can't really emulate. Consider the 4-drops, which I hold as the "core" of most Nic Fit decks:

Huntmaster
-) Buys time (2/2 token, gains 2 life)
-) Threatens to flip, applying pyschological pressure
-) If it flips, kills an x/2 and beats for 6 total (including token)
-) Can then be caused to flip back, generating even more value
-) Is weak to Punishing Fire and basically nothing else

Rector
-) Laughable combat ability
-) Can be used to assemble potent enchantment-based engines
-) If the opponent can't exile it, it can scare people off of attacking into it
-) Is weak to graveyard hate, Deathrite Shaman, and Swords to Plowshares

Now, something I realized last night: most of the best things that Rector can get, are banned. Bargain, Necro, Survival, etc -- there's only a few enchantments of that power level that are usable. And if you're not using Rector to establish an engine of some kind, you're automatically losing.

Options:

-) Recurring Nightmare

Arguably -the- most powerful graveyard recursion engine in the game. When used properly, it's immune to enchantment destruction and Abrupt Decay. Can be countered or discarded -- but also costs 3, and thus can be brought back with Sun Titan.

-) Recycle

We're not abusing this card to the full extent to which it should be abused. Glimpse of Nature for everything is an insanely strong effect. If we aren't comboing with it, however, I think that I've found a better draw engine.

-) Greater Good

This is one that I missed. Greater Gifts was a deck for a long time, and we're already running Yosei. I'm thinking that if Rector has a shot at maintaining viability, it's through Greater Good. [More later]

-) Debtors' Knell

Still exists. If you can get to it, it can overload a lot of decks very quickly. Seems kind of meh to me though -- it's also actually just dead against a lot of decks.

-) Abundance

Guaranteed nonland draws is decent, I suppose -- and constantly putting all of the lands on the bottom of your deck is good for Top. I feel that this doesn't do enough compared to either Recycle or Greater Good, though.

-) Doubling Season

Insanely strong effect, especially with planeswalkers. Garruk Primal, Elspeth, Sorin, Liliana of the Veil -- all are beyond fantastic with Doubling Season out.

-) Mirari's Wake

Another potent enchantment. Probably would encourage some kind of Living Wish combokill with Maga. I think that while the effect is powerful, though, there isn't a good shell for it. Rector has a lot of powerful sideboard options, and I wouldn't want a Wishboard in it.

-) Greed

The closest thing to Bargain that exists and is still legal. Paying 2 life for a card would be doable. But 2 life + B is probably too steep. It would also require significant building around.

These are all of the on-color enchantment-based "engine cards" that Rector can fetch and that are at all playable. Blue has Future Sight, Omniscience, and a few other options, but I don't like the idea of running them without blue mana, or splashing cards with a triple blue requirement.

Of all of these options, I believe that Greater Good is the most interesting, followed by Doubling Season. I made the following changes last night and did some goldfishing to see how the "combo" flowed:

-1 Recycle
-2 Baneslayer

+1 Greater Good
+1 Kokusho
+1 Mycoid Shepherd

Big Mike was primarily so that you can pay 5 mana to draw 5 cards and gain 5 life off of a Green Sun. There's probably something better for the slot, but I figured he was worth trying.

A few things I noticed --

Greater Good sucks bawls with Rector and Explorer unless you have a lot of dead cards in hand or are set up such that Rectoring for Nightmare just wins. Eternal Witness with Greater Good was acceptable -- Bazaar can be kind of rough sometimes, but it's workable. Anything beyond those, however, it nuts. I also noticed that once I started the Yosei bullshit with Greater Good, I was almost 100% to keep it going until they were just dead. Saccing Yosei to time walk + draw 5 and then pitch 3 blanks was usually good enough -- I'd draw into a Witness, or a Rector (for Nightmare), or Nightmare, or a Green Sun for Witness to get back Yosei, and so on. Just those couple of changes DID give the deck much more of a combo feeling. You basically just Time Walk lock them until you hit Kokusho and Nightmare, and then you kill them. I'm unsure of how fragile the engine is -- I will say that GG costing 4 mana is a wonderful thing. I'll be doing some testing tonight at my local in between rounds to see how it plays in an actual game scenario where I'm not just goldfishing to victory.

If anyone else has ideas, I'd love to hear them. I'm very close to running out of fucks to give with Rector, which has me pretty depressed considering the amount of work that I've put into her.

[XdeckX]

Eventhough I do acknowledge the work you put in Rector I've personally never got it to work as it was supposed to. I've run it in a couple of tournaments (and a GP) but while it was strong in not losing (especially against combo compared to other NicFit build when the BUG fit lists werent really around yet) I always felt it lacked the required punch to finish the game in time or before getting run over (even with the Sun Titan and the 2 BSA)

Yes, you can get some awesome enchantments into play that noone else plays in Legacy but that cant be the reason to run Rector. Rector has to bring something to the table that no other build can and kill as reliable as the other versions we currently have.

Dont get me wrong but right now Rector sounds like it's getting to the 'danger of cool things'. Trying to get improve it is never wrong but perhaps the current meta is just not suited for a Rector build and trying to tweak the build by trying other enchantments

To be honest I haven't looked at or even considered playing RectorFit for a long time. But that might be linked to my playstyle and succes I've had with ScapeWish. I just do better with that build :)

come to think of it... I haven't been active in here (although I'm never a really active person on public forums) nor have I been playing allot of magic due to personal situation and health issues (I've been ill for about a month now with a flu that I cant seem to shake....) Last time I played a tourney was a GTP for Strasbourgh where I didnt even play Nicfit (I top8 with Jund...) and next sunday I'm running TurboEldrazi so still no Nicfit... :P

[venice]

I recently found a list that played Omniscience as a Rector target. I like the idea. Maybe that would be a good approach. I mean Emrakul can also be fetched out by Empath.

[slikwilly]

I recently found a list that played Omniscience as a Rector target. I like the idea. Maybe that would be a good approach. I mean Emrakul can also be fetched out by Empath.

"I don't like the idea of running them without blue mana, or splashing cards with a triple blue requirement."

Omni takes too much. If you run it w/o the blue sources you need a Scroll Rack and we don't have room and there are gonna be times you draw that Omni and have a Rector and never hit the Scroll Rack and it is going to suck.

Sorta agree on Rector. I switched off it a few weeks ago. I really hoped for a decent Orzhov tool for it out of GTC and got nothing. Saw the new spoiled enchantment on the mothership this morning and was all stoked, "A six mana enchantment that is on color!?" And then I read the card, shed a little tear and thought about changes to make to my Esper deck before this weekend. It sucks because the deck has been a large investment and it's really fun to play, but at a certain point.... Ugh. It's a toolbox w/ too much box and not enough tools. Maybe YMTC gets us something sweet, but that is a long way off.

[Zombie]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=193492&type=card

[XdeckX]

I recently found a list that played Omniscience as a Rector target. I like the idea. Maybe that would be a good approach. I mean Emrakul can also be fetched out by Empath.

That might be Viridia's 4c omnifit list which basically wanted to go rector->diabolic intent and fetch omniscience and emrakul in 1 go. I dont know if its being worken on still but iirc it was just a really cool list if you wanted to play a cool wacky deck but not something to take to a high end tourney and expect to do well. Correct me if im wrong.

[TheArchitect]

The inherent problem with rector is that it has too many cards that are only situationally good.

Look at scapeshift. It has only 2 cards that dont do anything most of the time you draw them: scapeshift. But those 2 cards also instantly win you the game if you get them at the right time. Prime titan, thrag, HM and therapy also can often not do anything initially if you dont have enough lands at that point in the game or your opponent is in topdeck mode.

But wait? How can you say drawing a huntmaster is often bad? Well compared to scapeshift its not as bad, but there are going to be times where you have hand like this:

Huntmaster, thragtusk, Huntmaster, Cabal therapy, Burning wish, forest, badlands.

90% of the other cards in my deck Id rather have than have those HMs or thrags with that hand. So yes huntmaster is good card, just like rector but there are going to be times I just wish that huntmaster was a abrupt decay (or something else universally useful).

Rector has ALOT of cards that dont do anything, or anything particularly useful, if you draw them at the wrong time. And the pay off of having them at the right time is good, but not super impressive. Unlike how scapeshift instantly wins, but is useless without 7+ lands, Sun titan is useless for most the game but then can drastically improve your board presence over the course of a few turns but loses power to most removal/GY hate. Rectors get nullified often by STPS, deathrite, cards EVERY deck is running. Sigarda gets outraced by a goyf. And then it has cards like empath, ruskalka, recycle/greater good, etc, that can do really powerful things, but often you'll wish you drawn something else when you see them.

I want rector to be good, because its awesome. But what it really needs is to have as little situationally good cards as possible, and make sure the situationally good cards in there are not just good, but game winning. I think something like this might not be that bad:

-2 BSA
-2 Spirit dragons
-1 Empath
-1 rusulka
-1 recycle/greater good
-1 Sun Titan

+0-1 Armada Wurm (not sure this is even needed)
+2-3 Leyline of the void (very relevant against most decks)
+2 Helm of Obedience (at its worst, steal a goyf, but it has the MASSIVE payoff of the insta win)
+1 Etutor (bad card, but again the payoff I think will be worth it again, it can also get tops or deeds)
+X Efficient always-good cards so you can get to the point in the game where you can rectors and stuff (thoughtseize, decay, stps, etc).

SB for control/midrange matchup:
+1 Phyrexian arena (easier to cast, isnt dependant on other cards like recycle/good)



Not many decks have any way to interact with leyline+helm. Most decks are leaning on decay, and cutting other artifact/enchantment removal.


Also, unban survival already.

[Arianrhod]

The inherent problem with rector is that it has too many cards that are only situationally good.

Look at scapeshift. It has only 2 cards that dont do anything most of the time you draw them: scapeshift. But those 2 cards also instantly win you the game if you get them at the right time. Prime titan, thrag, HM and therapy also can often not do anything initially if you dont have enough lands at that point in the game or your opponent is in topdeck mode.

But wait? How can you say drawing a huntmaster is often bad? Well compared to scapeshift its not as bad, but there are going to be times where you have hand like this:

Huntmaster, thragtusk, Huntmaster, Cabal therapy, Burning wish, forest, badlands.

90% of the other cards in my deck Id rather have than have those HMs or thrags with that hand. So yes huntmaster is good card, just like rector but there are going to be times I just wish that huntmaster was a abrupt decay (or something else universally useful).

Rector has ALOT of cards that dont do anything, or anything particularly useful, if you draw them at the wrong time. And the pay off of having them at the right time is good, but not super impressive. Unlike how scapeshift instantly wins, but is useless without 7+ lands, Sun titan is useless for most the game but then can drastically improve your board presence over the course of a few turns but loses power to most removal/GY hate. Rectors get nullified often by STPS, deathrite, cards EVERY deck is running. Sigarda gets outraced by a goyf. And then it has cards like empath, ruskalka, recycle/greater good, etc, that can do really powerful things, but often you'll wish you drawn something else when you see them.

I want rector to be good, because its awesome. But what it really needs is to have as little situationally good cards as possible, and make sure the situationally good cards in there are not just good, but game winning. I think something like this might not be that bad:

-2 BSA
-2 Spirit dragons
-1 Empath
-1 rusulka
-1 recycle/greater good
-1 Sun Titan

+0-1 Armada Wurm (not sure this is even needed)
+2-3 Leyline of the void (very relevant against most decks)
+2 Helm of Obedience (at its worst, steal a goyf, but it has the MASSIVE payoff of the insta win)
+1 Etutor (bad card, but again the payoff I think will be worth it again, it can also get tops or deeds)
+X Efficient always-good cards so you can get to the point in the game where you can rectors and stuff (thoughtseize, decay, stps, etc).

SB for control/midrange matchup:
+1 Phyrexian arena (easier to cast, isnt dependant on other cards like recycle/good)



Not many decks have any way to interact with leyline+helm. Most decks are leaning on decay, and cutting other artifact/enchantment removal.


Also, unban survival already.

If they ever unban Survival, I'll be RecSuring so fast your head will spin. Probably in a Nic Fit shell still, but...yeah. Yeah.

Also, I don't disagree with your assessment, but I'm not convinced that Helmline is the way to go. Helmline just seems really anti-synergistic with the rest of the deck ... at best, it's merely "there." It doesn't really do anything with anything else.

We'll see what my testing tonight shows regarding the Greater Good plan. If it ends up not really changing much of anything, which is a distinct possibility, I'll likely end up trying the Doubling Season shell -- planeswalkers are always good, and they're good without Doubling Season being necessary. It just pushes them ridiculously far over the top. If THAT fails, then I'll likely end up disassembling Rector for the time being. I do think that there's something to the core concept -- but it needs better options to exist than currently do.

[TheArchitect]

Idk if helm is good either, but its the best compact thing I can think of. My justification is that rector is already cheating enchantments into play and wouldnt mind running etutor, like how scapewish is already ramping and doesnt mind running burning wish, so having a card that just wins if your already doing what your deck is good at seemed like the best option. Its definitely not as elegant or non-interactive as scapeshift though.


I wish Form of the Dragon was good or golden wish cost 2.

[Arianrhod]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141425&stc=1&d=1366139669

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Star|Scream]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

trollolol... What a great card against brainstorm... In brainstorm decks!

[Viridia]

That looks like fun :D

[Qweerios]

Progenitor Mimic looks very interesting too. It's a GSZ-able answer to Legendary creatures and it produces some ridiculous value with Thragtusk and Witness. Not half bad against SnT either, and it pitches to FoW.

[HoneyT]

I want rector to be good, because its awesome. But what it really needs is to have as little situationally good cards as possible, and make sure the situationally good cards in there are not just good, but game winning. I think something like this might not be that bad:

-2 BSA
-2 Spirit dragons
-1 Empath
-1 rusulka
-1 recycle/greater good
-1 Sun Titan

+0-1 Armada Wurm (not sure this is even needed)
+2-3 Leyline of the void (very relevant against most decks)
+2 Helm of Obedience (at its worst, steal a goyf, but it has the MASSIVE payoff of the insta win)
+1 Etutor (bad card, but again the payoff I think will be worth it again, it can also get tops or deeds)
+X Efficient always-good cards so you can get to the point in the game where you can rectors and stuff (thoughtseize, decay, stps, etc).

SB for control/midrange matchup:
+1 Phyrexian arena (easier to cast, isnt dependant on other cards like recycle/good)

Not many decks have any way to interact with leyline+helm. Most decks are leaning on decay, and cutting other artifact/enchantment removal.


So you're suggesting cutting situational cards for different situational cards?


Progenitor Mimic looks very interesting too. It's a GSZ-able answer to Legendary creatures and it produces some ridiculous value with Thragtusk and Witness. Not half bad against SnT either, and it pitches to FoW.

I've been thinking the same thing here as well. Also Notion Thief doesn't seem that bad in a BUG shell. Notion Thief + Clique is dirty.

[Zombie]

An idea just popped into my head. Sam Black's BW Humans or the like with a ton of sacrifice for value style effects and most importantly lots of targeted discard. Rector. Conscription. Hulksmash?

EDIT: Also I'm fucking disgusted that Notion Thief is blue.

[TheArchitect]

So you're suggesting cutting situational cards for different situational cards?
.

Im suggesting lowing the number of situationally poor cards and then making sure the ones there are going to win the game. Im not sure leyline helm is good in nic fit, but no ones really tried it and it seems decent on paper.




Also ya, the Chains of Mephistopheles looks cool. If any legacy deck can play it, its nic fit. The simic clone every turn also does seem really good. Even at its worst copying an opponents goyf or clique every turn could be devastating.

[DireNTropy]

I was playing UGb Explorer in the 6th round feature match at SCG Milwaukee. It was my first big tournament (more than 5 rounds), so please excuse the misplays on camera :laugh:.

SCG Milwaukee Tournament Report

Decklist

Spells(24)
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Pernicious Deed
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Green Sun's Zenith

Creatures(15)
4x Baleful Strix
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan

Lands(21)
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Swamp
2x Forest
2x Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest

Sideboard
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Counterbalance
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Extirpate
1x Darkblast
1x Engineered Plague

I originally played GB Nic Fit (using Diabolic Intent), but after losing to T.E.S. and combo elves last December, I was determined to add Force of Will to the list and this is the current state of the deck. Last minute changes came from adding counterbalance to the sideboard and making the following changes to the main (+2 Vendilion Clique, +3 Sensei's Divining Top, -3 Liliana of the Veil, -2 Ponder). This helps the already stretched mana base of the deck, as Liliana was the only spell requiring double black mana.

Deck Notes:
-The deck revolves around protecting Jace, the Mind Sculptor through both Pernicious Deed and creatures.
-Plan B is to resolve a Primeval Titan, fetching a Volrath's Stronghold and a Creeping Tar Pit (or 2). The singleton wasteland is an out to Maze of Ith and just to provide general utility.
-Thrun was a last minute addition in order to fight Punishing Jund. I had cut him from my original list very early on but was having issues with the Jund matchup. I'm still unsure about this decision.
-Thragtusk is my hedge against Burn/Aggro decks and may be switched to the sideboard, as I usually would want to wait for Primeval Titan after hitting 6 mana with Green Sun's Zenith.
-I cut a Phyrexian Tower since it's subpar without the Veteran Explorer and leaves you vulnerable to wasteland while producing only colorless mana. It allows for explosive starts but I felt it hurt the consistency of the mana base too much and would have to take a spell slot rather than a land slot. In addition, I had cut all the spells requiring double black mana.
-I wanted at least 17 blue sources for Force of Will.
-I wanted to try to include the Counterbalance in the sideboard against combo/burn decks.
-I only included 2 Green Sun's Zenith since this deck includes 4 Brainstorm in addition to 3 Sensei's Divining Tops, allowing the Veteran Explorer to be found more easily.
-Vendilion Clique and Cabal Therapy have some synergy.
-I only ran 5 basics, as brainstorm can shuffle away extra Veteran Explorers.


Match Reports:
note: sideboarding and game notes are from memory; I only recorded life totals and cards in hand from Cabal Therapy/Vendilion Clique

Round 1 (BUG Delver)
Game 1: He wins the die roll and plays Deathrite Shaman into Hymn, hitting 2 lands. I can't get off of 2 lands and a 6/7 Tarmogoyf gets there. (Loss)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Veteran Explorer
1x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: Deathrite Shaman into two Tombstalkers is bad for a deck relying on Deed and Abrupt Decay. (Loss)

(0-1) (0-2)


Round 2 (SI)
Game 1: He wins the die roll and tries to use fast mana to cast Infernal Contract, which meets a Force of Will. I play Cabal Therapy and see a hand of Ill-Gotten Gains, Infernal Contract, Elvish Spirit Guide, Infernal Tutor, and Summoner's Pact; the flashback takes the Summoner's Pact. I play Jace and fateseal away any mana sources. Creeping tar pit and Eternal Witness (returning Force of Will) attack for the win. (Win)

In:
3x Counterbalance
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Extirpate
1x Engineered Plague

Out:
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
1x Thrun, the last troll
4x Baleful Strix

Game 2: I keep an initial 7 with Force of Will and Pernicious Deed. He mulligans to 5. I hit two land drops with a top in play and decide to let a Cabal Ritual and a Lotus Petal resolve since I should be able to handle an Empty the Warrens. He plays an EtW for 8 goblins and I Force of Will one (probably the incorrect play). A Cabal Therapy shows me a hand with Empty the Warrens, Goblin Charbelcher, and Cruel Bargain. I never get off of 2 lands even after brainstorm and top, which doesn't matter anyways since he is able to cast Cruel Bargain and drop a Charbelcher, activating it with an LED for the win. (Loss)

Game 3: I again open with a Force of Will (3 out of 3 games!) and keep. I play a Veteran Explorer and start swinging in for one every turn. He plays a Carpet of Flowers while I have two islands. I play Cabal Therapy and see a hand of Ill-Gotten Gains, Cabal Ritual, Cruel Bargain, and Goblin Charbelcher. I flashback Cabal Therapy and take Goblin Charbelcher. I Force of Will a ritual to keep him off of 4 mana. He casts Ill-Gotten Gains and I am able to get back a Force of Will and a Brainstorm. I am able to get a Counterbalance into play, which blind flips to counter an LED. I eventually get the countertop lock with double Force of Will backup and we go to turns with me at 17 and my opponent at 12. Veteran Explorer and Creeping tar pit are able get me the win. (Win)

(1-1) (2-3)


Round 3 (Goblins)
Game 1: He wins the die roll and plays a Goblin Lackey. I don't have a Veteran Explorer (Green Sun's Zenith in hand) so a Goblin Warchief and Mogg War Marshal hit the board on turn 2. I go down to 5 life before stabilizing with a Deed. I play a Scavenging Ooze which gains me 8 life whlie becoming a 10/10. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Darkblast
1x Engineered Plague
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
4x Force of Will
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: He keeps a 1 Wasteland and Aether Vial hand and again leads with a Goblin Lackey. This time I do have the Turn 1 Veteran Explorer which is bounced by a Stingscourger. I play two Veteran Explorers and am able to play and activate Deed. I cast Jace, fatesealing anything that isn't a land and cast another scavenging ooze which again grows to 10/10. (Win)

(2-1) (4-3)


Round 4 (Merfolk)
Game 1: He wins the die roll and leads with an Aether Vial which is met by a Force of Will. I stall with 2 Baleful Strix and force him to overcommit to the board. Since I drew creeping tar pit to provide blue mana, I am able to avoid fetching islands. Deed clears the board. Silvergill Adept allowed him to redevelop a board presence very quickly, but in the mean time I play a Vendilion Clique, Primeval Titan, and 2 Creeping Tar Pits in addition to a Cabal Therapy to reveal his hand prior to attacking for the win. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Darkblast
1x Engineered Plague
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Game 2: I play a Carpet of Flowers on turn 1 and am able to avoid fetching Islands. I play Cabal Therapy and see Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Daze, Phantasmal Image, Cavern of Souls, and an Island. I play two Baleful Strix, and face a board with Cursecatcher, Kira, and a Phantasmal Image copying a Strix. I Abrupt Decay the Kira and trade Baleful Strixes. Vendilion Clique and Creeping Tar Pit get there. (Win)

(3-1) (6-3)


Round 5 (4 Color Cascade)
Game 1: I don't remember this match very well. A Cabal Therapy revealed 2x Abrupt Decay, Shardless Agent, Tarmogoyf, Punishing Fire, Lightning Bolt, and Dark Confidant. A flashback later on reveals a Scavenging Ooze. I think I played a Scavenging Ooze and a Primeval Titan. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Carpet of Flowers

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Veteran Explorer
1x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: We trade creatures and removal spells, ending up with him having a single Tarmogoyf in play. I play a Jace and bounce the Tarmogoyf and discard it with a Cabal Therapy. I start fatesealing with Jace, leaving lands on the top. I draw and cast a Thragtusk. Time is called with Jace at 8 loyalty. I leave a Tarmogoyf on top of his library which is blocked twice by Thragtusk and a beast token. I Abrupt Decay the Tarmogoyf. He draws a bolt and hits Jace at 12 loyalty to draw the game. (Draw)

(4-1) (7-3-1)


Round 6 (Esper Stoneblade) Feature Match!
Game 1: I realize that this is a terrible time to have my first match ever against Esper Stoneblade. Getting the Top Spell Pierced hurt. Misplays include missing a couple of Scavenging Ooze activations, activating the Deed too soon, and missing a Primeval Titan trigger. (Loss)

In:
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Engineered Plague
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Counterbalance
3x Carpet of Flowers

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Veteran Explorer
2x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: Misplays!
1. I should have fetched a blue source to cast Vendilion Clique on my 3rd turn to grab the Batterskull. Also, I meant to cast Vendilion Clique in response to the 2nd fetch to avoid Counterspell, but I was a bit confused about the shortcut (in addition to being nervous due to being on camera).
2. I should have drawn both the Cabal Therapy and the Veteran Explorer to try to shuffle away the Sensei's Divining Top or draw out a Force of Will.
3. I tapped my mana incorrectly and was unable to keep regeneration up for Thrun, which cost me 5 life.
4. I should have flashed back Cabal Therapy on Force of Will and played Maelstrom Pulse on the Stoneforge Mystics.
5. Not a misplay, but seeing all three Sensei's Divining Top is terrible. (Loss)

(4-2) (7-5-1)


Round 7 (RUGw Tempo)
Game 1: I don't remember much about this game. A Cabal Therapy reveals 2x Lightning Bolt, Spell Pierce, Delver of Secrets, Wasteland, Ponder, and land. I think I played a Deed; Primeval Titan gets there. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Carpet of Flowers

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Veteran Explorer
1x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: His Delver of Secrets doesn't flip for at least 5 turns. I play a Deed and start fatesealing with Jace. I also play an Ooze that hits 7/7. I ultimate Jace for the win. (Win)

(5-2) (9-5-1)


Round 8 (Punishing Jund)
Game 1: I play a Jace on an empty board and fateseal to prevent losing Jace to burn. I end up losing Jace to Punishing Fire and Bloodbraid Elf anyways. He plays a Liliana of the Veil and protects her with Punishing Fire. Liliana ultimates, leaving me with 3 lands and a deed (other pile was 4 lands). Punishing Fire alongside Deathrite Shaman burn gets him the win. (Loss)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
4x Force of Will
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Game 2: He plays Liliana with creature backup. I play Vendilion Clique in response to Liliana's Discard, shipping a Punishing Fire to the bottom and putting Liliana down to 1 loyalty. I play Cabal Therapy blind and hit two Bloodbraid Elves. 2 Deathrite Shamans and Punishing Fire get there. (Loss)

(5-3) (9-7-1)


Round 9 (Combo Elves)
Game 1: He casts a Glimpse of Nature on Turn 2 which is met by a Force of Will. I am attacked/Deathrite Shaman burned down to 3 life before I am able to stabilize with a deed. He bounces an elf and a Dryad Arbor in response and I cast an Eternal Witness, returning the Pernicious Deed. After the second Deed, I cast Jace and begin fatesealing, leaving lands on top. I ultimate Jace for the win. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Darkblast
1x Engineered Plague
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
1x Primeval Titan
1x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
4x Baleful Strix

Game 2: I keep a hand with a Maelstrom Pulse, 2 Abrupt Decays and a Wasteland while he mulligans down to 5 cards. He is able to get 2 elves, a dryad arbor and a Bayou into play. I cast Abrupt Decay and accidentally show him a Maelstrom Pulse (it looks so similar to Abrupt Decay). He casts Cabal Therapy naming Maelstrom Pulse and flashes it back to take the remaining Abrupt Decay. I Wasteland the Bayou and use Darkblast and a Pernicious Deed to clear the board. I land a Jace and start fatesealing away any lands. I draw a Scavenging Ooze, which quickly grows to an 8/8. (Win)

(6-3) (11-7-1), good enough for 44th




Overall Thoughts:
The deck is very strong against fast combo and tribal decks due to Force of Will and Pernicious Deed, respectively. I need to find room for a 4th copy of Pernicious Deed. I think 4 copies of Force of Will (either in the mainboard or sideboard) is correct, as the point of including it is to be more resilient against fast combo. This deck is also capable of hardcasting Force of Will in the late game.

I noticed I sided out Force of Will in 7 out of 9 rounds. While it was never terrible in game 1, it was much less efficient than 1 for 1 removal against creature decks. I'm not sure if it's correct to have Force of Will in the main or sideboard, since having it in the main improves the combo matchup significantly while only hurting the 'fair' matchups by a small amount.

The deck leans very heavily on the Pernicious Deed for removal and had problems dealing with fast value creatures (Dark Confidant and Deathrite Shaman) and efficient creatures (Stoneforge Mystic and Bloodbraid Elf) as by the time Deed becomes relevant I was already very far behind. In addition, the deck cannot afford to go 1 for 1 with Pernicious Deed. Abrupt Decay makes playing Deed against a GBx deck much more difficult as you should have enough mana to activate it on the same turn it's played.

Both Creeping Tar Pit and Vendilion Clique were great, pressuring planeswalkers and providing a clock. Vendilion Clique almost guarantees that you're able to get your next play to stick as well as having some synergy with Cabal Therapy.

Baleful Strix is both great and terrible against Tarmogoyf. If removed, the Strix usually grows the Tarmogoyf; between Baleful Strix, Pernicious Deed, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I was consistently being hit by 6/7 Goyfs and even seeing a 7/8 once.

The deck is very weak to discard. Since the deck's best threats cost at least 4, most of the time they're vulnerable in your hand unless you have a brainstorm for protection.

Deathrite Shaman is difficult to deal with, not so much for the Turn 2 Liliana, but more because of the T2 Wasteland + Hymn to Tourach play. Specifically in Jund, Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant punish waiting to have enough mana to both play deed and activate it, which plays straight into Abrupt Decay.

I should have tested the Esper Stoneblade match up. It was the only deck I was expecting to face that I haven't played against. I played against RUG Tempo a lot the week before and felt very confidant about playing around stifle, daze, and spell pierce.

My opponents were a lot of fun to play against. Thanks for making my first SCG Open such an enjoyable experience!


Possible changes to decklist:
-1 Thrun, the Last Troll (sideboard)
-1 Thragtusk (sideboard)
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Innocent Blood


I'm also working on another variant of BUg Nic Fit to try to have a better matchup against the midrange decks.

TLDR:
BUG Delver (0-2)
SI (2-1)
Goblins (2-0)
Merfolk (2-0)
4C Cascade (1-0)
Esper Stoneblade (0-2)
RUGw Tempo (2-0)
Punishing Jund (0-2)
Combo Elves (2-0)

[learntolove6]

I was playing UGb Explorer in the 6th round feature match at SCG Milwaukee. It was my first big tournament (more than 5 rounds), so please excuse the misplays on camera :laugh:.

SCG Milwaukee Tournament Report

Decklist

Spells(24)
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Pernicious Deed
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Green Sun's Zenith

Creatures(15)
4x Baleful Strix
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan

Lands(21)
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Swamp
2x Forest
2x Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest

Sideboard
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Counterbalance
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Extirpate
1x Darkblast
1x Engineered Plague

I originally played GB Nic Fit (using Diabolic Intent), but after losing to T.E.S. and combo elves last December, I was determined to add Force of Will to the list and this is the current state of the deck. Last minute changes came from adding counterbalance to the sideboard and making the following changes to the main (+2 Vendilion Clique, +3 Sensei's Divining Top, -3 Liliana of the Veil, -2 Ponder). This helps the already stretched mana base of the deck, as Liliana was the only spell requiring double black mana.

Deck Notes:
-The deck revolves around protecting Jace, the Mind Sculptor through both Pernicious Deed and creatures.
-Plan B is to resolve a Primeval Titan, fetching a Volrath's Stronghold and a Creeping Tar Pit (or 2). The singleton wasteland is an out to Maze of Ith and just to provide general utility.
-Thrun was a last minute addition in order to fight Punishing Jund. I had cut him from my original list very early on but was having issues with the Jund matchup. I'm still unsure about this decision.
-Thragtusk is my hedge against Burn/Aggro decks and may be switched to the sideboard, as I usually would want to wait for Primeval Titan after hitting 6 mana with Green Sun's Zenith.
-I cut a Phyrexian Tower since it's subpar without the Veteran Explorer and leaves you vulnerable to wasteland while producing only colorless mana. It allows for explosive starts but I felt it hurt the consistency of the mana base too much and would have to take a spell slot rather than a land slot. In addition, I had cut all the spells requiring double black mana.
-I wanted at least 17 blue sources for Force of Will.
-I wanted to try to include the Counterbalance in the sideboard against combo/burn decks.
-I only included 2 Green Sun's Zenith since this deck includes 4 Brainstorm in addition to 3 Sensei's Divining Tops, allowing the Veteran Explorer to be found more easily.
-Vendilion Clique and Cabal Therapy have some synergy.
-I only ran 5 basics, as brainstorm can shuffle away extra Veteran Explorers.


Match Reports:
note: sideboarding and game notes are from memory; I only recorded life totals and cards in hand from Cabal Therapy/Vendilion Clique

Round 1 (BUG Delver)
Game 1: He wins the die roll and plays Deathrite Shaman into Hymn, hitting 2 lands. I can't get off of 2 lands and a 6/7 Tarmogoyf gets there. (Loss)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Veteran Explorer
1x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: Deathrite Shaman into two Tombstalkers is bad for a deck relying on Deed and Abrupt Decay. (Loss)

(0-1) (0-2)


Round 2 (SI)
Game 1: He wins the die roll and tries to use fast mana to cast Infernal Contract, which meets a Force of Will. I play Cabal Therapy and see a hand of Ill-Gotten Gains, Infernal Contract, Elvish Spirit Guide, Infernal Tutor, and Summoner's Pact; the flashback takes the Summoner's Pact. I play Jace and fateseal away any mana sources. Creeping tar pit and Eternal Witness (returning Force of Will) attack for the win. (Win)

In:
3x Counterbalance
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Extirpate
1x Engineered Plague

Out:
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
1x Thrun, the last troll
4x Baleful Strix

Game 2: I keep an initial 7 with Force of Will and Pernicious Deed. He mulligans to 5. I hit two land drops with a top in play and decide to let a Cabal Ritual and a Lotus Petal resolve since I should be able to handle an Empty the Warrens. He plays an EtW for 8 goblins and I Force of Will one (probably the incorrect play). A Cabal Therapy shows me a hand with Empty the Warrens, Goblin Charbelcher, and Cruel Bargain. I never get off of 2 lands even after brainstorm and top, which doesn't matter anyways since he is able to cast Cruel Bargain and drop a Charbelcher, activating it with an LED for the win. (Loss)

Game 3: I again open with a Force of Will (3 out of 3 games!) and keep. I play a Veteran Explorer and start swinging in for one every turn. He plays a Carpet of Flowers while I have two islands. I play Cabal Therapy and see a hand of Ill-Gotten Gains, Cabal Ritual, Cruel Bargain, and Goblin Charbelcher. I flashback Cabal Therapy and take Goblin Charbelcher. I Force of Will a ritual to keep him off of 4 mana. He casts Ill-Gotten Gains and I am able to get back a Force of Will and a Brainstorm. I am able to get a Counterbalance into play, which blind flips to counter an LED. I eventually get the countertop lock with double Force of Will backup and we go to turns with me at 17 and my opponent at 12. Veteran Explorer and Creeping tar pit are able get me the win. (Win)

(1-1) (2-3)


Round 3 (Goblins)
Game 1: He wins the die roll and plays a Goblin Lackey. I don't have a Veteran Explorer (Green Sun's Zenith in hand) so a Goblin Warchief and Mogg War Marshal hit the board on turn 2. I go down to 5 life before stabilizing with a Deed. I play a Scavenging Ooze which gains me 8 life whlie becoming a 10/10. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Darkblast
1x Engineered Plague
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
4x Force of Will
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: He keeps a 1 Wasteland and Aether Vial hand and again leads with a Goblin Lackey. This time I do have the Turn 1 Veteran Explorer which is bounced by a Stingscourger. I play two Veteran Explorers and am able to play and activate Deed. I cast Jace, fatesealing anything that isn't a land and cast another scavenging ooze which again grows to 10/10. (Win)

(2-1) (4-3)


Round 4 (Merfolk)
Game 1: He wins the die roll and leads with an Aether Vial which is met by a Force of Will. I stall with 2 Baleful Strix and force him to overcommit to the board. Since I drew creeping tar pit to provide blue mana, I am able to avoid fetching islands. Deed clears the board. Silvergill Adept allowed him to redevelop a board presence very quickly, but in the mean time I play a Vendilion Clique, Primeval Titan, and 2 Creeping Tar Pits in addition to a Cabal Therapy to reveal his hand prior to attacking for the win. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Darkblast
1x Engineered Plague
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Game 2: I play a Carpet of Flowers on turn 1 and am able to avoid fetching Islands. I play Cabal Therapy and see Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Daze, Phantasmal Image, Cavern of Souls, and an Island. I play two Baleful Strix, and face a board with Cursecatcher, Kira, and a Phantasmal Image copying a Strix. I Abrupt Decay the Kira and trade Baleful Strixes. Vendilion Clique and Creeping Tar Pit get there. (Win)

(3-1) (6-3)


Round 5 (4 Color Cascade)
Game 1: I don't remember this match very well. A Cabal Therapy revealed 2x Abrupt Decay, Shardless Agent, Tarmogoyf, Punishing Fire, Lightning Bolt, and Dark Confidant. A flashback later on reveals a Scavenging Ooze. I think I played a Scavenging Ooze and a Primeval Titan. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Carpet of Flowers

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Veteran Explorer
1x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: We trade creatures and removal spells, ending up with him having a single Tarmogoyf in play. I play a Jace and bounce the Tarmogoyf and discard it with a Cabal Therapy. I start fatesealing with Jace, leaving lands on the top. I draw and cast a Thragtusk. Time is called with Jace at 8 loyalty. I leave a Tarmogoyf on top of his library which is blocked twice by Thragtusk and a beast token. I Abrupt Decay the Tarmogoyf. He draws a bolt and hits Jace at 12 loyalty to draw the game. (Draw)

(4-1) (7-3-1)


Round 6 (Esper Stoneblade) Feature Match!
Game 1: I realize that this is a terrible time to have my first match ever against Esper Stoneblade. Getting the Top Spell Pierced hurt. Misplays include missing a couple of Scavenging Ooze activations, activating the Deed too soon, and missing a Primeval Titan trigger. (Loss)

In:
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Engineered Plague
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Counterbalance
3x Carpet of Flowers

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Veteran Explorer
2x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: Misplays!
1. I should have fetched a blue source to cast Vendilion Clique on my 3rd turn to grab the Batterskull. Also, I meant to cast Vendilion Clique in response to the 2nd fetch to avoid Counterspell, but I was a bit confused about the shortcut (in addition to being nervous due to being on camera).
2. I should have drawn both the Cabal Therapy and the Veteran Explorer to try to shuffle away the Sensei's Divining Top or draw out a Force of Will.
3. I tapped my mana incorrectly and was unable to keep regeneration up for Thrun, which cost me 5 life.
4. I should have flashed back Cabal Therapy on Force of Will and played Maelstrom Pulse on the Stoneforge Mystics.
5. Not a misplay, but seeing all three Sensei's Divining Top is terrible. (Loss)

(4-2) (7-5-1)


Round 7 (RUGw Tempo)
Game 1: I don't remember much about this game. A Cabal Therapy reveals 2x Lightning Bolt, Spell Pierce, Delver of Secrets, Wasteland, Ponder, and land. I think I played a Deed; Primeval Titan gets there. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Carpet of Flowers

Out:
4x Force of Will
3x Veteran Explorer
1x Cabal Therapy

Game 2: His Delver of Secrets doesn't flip for at least 5 turns. I play a Deed and start fatesealing with Jace. I also play an Ooze that hits 7/7. I ultimate Jace for the win. (Win)

(5-2) (9-5-1)


Round 8 (Punishing Jund)
Game 1: I play a Jace on an empty board and fateseal to prevent losing Jace to burn. I end up losing Jace to Punishing Fire and Bloodbraid Elf anyways. He plays a Liliana of the Veil and protects her with Punishing Fire. Liliana ultimates, leaving me with 3 lands and a deed (other pile was 4 lands). Punishing Fire alongside Deathrite Shaman burn gets him the win. (Loss)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
4x Force of Will
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Game 2: He plays Liliana with creature backup. I play Vendilion Clique in response to Liliana's Discard, shipping a Punishing Fire to the bottom and putting Liliana down to 1 loyalty. I play Cabal Therapy blind and hit two Bloodbraid Elves. 2 Deathrite Shamans and Punishing Fire get there. (Loss)

(5-3) (9-7-1)


Round 9 (Combo Elves)
Game 1: He casts a Glimpse of Nature on Turn 2 which is met by a Force of Will. I am attacked/Deathrite Shaman burned down to 3 life before I am able to stabilize with a deed. He bounces an elf and a Dryad Arbor in response and I cast an Eternal Witness, returning the Pernicious Deed. After the second Deed, I cast Jace and begin fatesealing, leaving lands on top. I ultimate Jace for the win. (Win)

In:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Darkblast
1x Engineered Plague
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scavenging Ooze

Out:
1x Primeval Titan
1x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
4x Baleful Strix

Game 2: I keep a hand with a Maelstrom Pulse, 2 Abrupt Decays and a Wasteland while he mulligans down to 5 cards. He is able to get 2 elves, a dryad arbor and a Bayou into play. I cast Abrupt Decay and accidentally show him a Maelstrom Pulse (it looks so similar to Abrupt Decay). He casts Cabal Therapy naming Maelstrom Pulse and flashes it back to take the remaining Abrupt Decay. I Wasteland the Bayou and use Darkblast and a Pernicious Deed to clear the board. I land a Jace and start fatesealing away any lands. I draw a Scavenging Ooze, which quickly grows to an 8/8. (Win)

(6-3) (11-7-1), good enough for 44th




Overall Thoughts:
The deck is very strong against fast combo and tribal decks due to Force of Will and Pernicious Deed, respectively. I need to find room for a 4th copy of Pernicious Deed. I think 4 copies of Force of Will (either in the mainboard or sideboard) is correct, as the point of including it is to be more resilient against fast combo. This deck is also capable of hardcasting Force of Will in the late game.

I noticed I sided out Force of Will in 7 out of 9 rounds. While it was never terrible in game 1, it was much less efficient than 1 for 1 removal against creature decks. I'm not sure if it's correct to have Force of Will in the main or sideboard, since having it in the main improves the combo matchup significantly while only hurting the 'fair' matchups by a small amount.

The deck leans very heavily on the Pernicious Deed for removal and had problems dealing with fast value creatures (Dark Confidant and Deathrite Shaman) and efficient creatures (Stoneforge Mystic and Bloodbraid Elf) as by the time Deed becomes relevant I was already very far behind. In addition, the deck cannot afford to go 1 for 1 with Pernicious Deed. Abrupt Decay makes playing Deed against a GBx deck much more difficult as you should have enough mana to activate it on the same turn it's played.

Both Creeping Tar Pit and Vendilion Clique were great, pressuring planeswalkers and providing a clock. Vendilion Clique almost guarantees that you're able to get your next play to stick as well as having some synergy with Cabal Therapy.

Baleful Strix is both great and terrible against Tarmogoyf. If removed, the Strix usually grows the Tarmogoyf; between Baleful Strix, Pernicious Deed, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I was consistently being hit by 6/7 Goyfs and even seeing a 7/8 once.

The deck is very weak to discard. Since the deck's best threats cost at least 4, most of the time they're vulnerable in your hand unless you have a brainstorm for protection.

Deathrite Shaman is difficult to deal with, not so much for the Turn 2 Liliana, but more because of the T2 Wasteland + Hymn to Tourach play. Specifically in Jund, Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant punish waiting to have enough mana to both play deed and activate it, which plays straight into Abrupt Decay.

I should have tested the Esper Stoneblade match up. It was the only deck I was expecting to face that I haven't played against. I played against RUG Tempo a lot the week before and felt very confidant about playing around stifle, daze, and spell pierce.

My opponents were a lot of fun to play against. Thanks for making my first SCG Open such an enjoyable experience!


Possible changes to decklist:
-1 Thrun, the Last Troll (sideboard)
-1 Thragtusk (sideboard)
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Innocent Blood


I'm also working on another variant of BUg Nic Fit to try to have a better matchup against the midrange decks.

TLDR:
BUG Delver (0-2)
SI (2-1)
Goblins (2-0)
Merfolk (2-0)
4C Cascade (1-0)
Esper Stoneblade (0-2)
RUGw Tempo (2-0)
Punishing Jund (0-2)
Combo Elves (2-0)

I love stoneblade and i've been playing it for ages, but BUG fit is awesome and I want to let you know that I was rooting for you the entire feature match! 44th ain't bad either, so well done!

[Tao]

Overall Thoughts:


Congrats to the result. You can look into my signature list for ideas.

- Force of Will: Don't play Force of Will maindeck. It is only good against Combo and absolutely terrible against everything else. So siding it out 7 out of 9 games is pretty normal.
- Removal: I think having 4 Abrupt Decay in the maindeck is the right choice at the moment. Deathrite Shamans, Dark Confidant, Goyfs, Delvers, Counterbalances, Sylvan Libraries and Stoneforge Mystics are everywhere. For the mass removal I like a 3/2 split between Damnation and Deed. Damnation is great if you face Tombstalker or Mother of Runes + Phyrexian Revoker (they know to name Deed).
- Discard: Playing a lot of removal helps. If you kill your opponent's threats and you both go into topdeck mode you are the favorite.
- Green Sun's Zenith: GSZ is the second best card in the deck after Brainstorm and you should play 4. Great in the opening hand, great topdeck later on. Do not cut Thrun and Thragtusk, that is the wrong approach.
- Don't play Volrath's Stronghold. A second Tar Pit is a much better choice. Stronghold sounds nice in theory but it just doesn't ever do anthing. I had it far too long in test lists until I realized that I haven't actually returned anything with it in a hundred games or so.

[Cire_dk]

Congrats to the result. You can look into my signature list for ideas.

- Force of Will: Don't play Force of Will maindeck. It is only good against Combo and absolutely terrible against everything else. So siding it out 7 out of 9 games is pretty normal.
- Removal: I think having 4 Abrupt Decay in the maindeck is the right choice at the moment. Deathrite Shamans, Dark Confidant, Goyfs, Delvers, Counterbalances, Sylvan Libraries and Stoneforge Mystics are everywhere. For the mass removal I like a 3/2 split between Damnation and Deed. Damnation is great if you face Tombstalker or Mother of Runes + Phyrexian Revoker (they know to name Deed).
- Discard: Playing a lot of removal helps. If you kill your opponent's threats and you both go into topdeck mode you are the favorite.
- Green Sun's Zenith: GSZ is the second best card in the deck after Brainstorm and you should play 4. Great in the opening hand, great topdeck later on. Do not cut Thrun and Thragtusk, that is the wrong approach.
- Don't play Volrath's Stronghold. A second Tar Pit is a much better choice. Stronghold sounds nice in theory but it just doesn't ever do anthing. I had it far too long in test lists until I realized that I haven't actually returned anything with it in a hundred games or so.

I played a GP in Strassbourg this weekend and wished I would have had a FOW many times in my first game. It is very frustrating to be on the draw and being killed before I could even do a thing. Even if you have to sideboard it I still think it deserves a MB spot in the current Combo heavy meta. Maybe different meta at your end?

Apart from that I agree with all your other points.

@DireNTropy Of course congratz on great result and thanks for the report

[vilnico]

Hey guys,

Long time not been here
Went to Strasbourg and ended 6W-2L-1D, and missed D2 by nothing, playing a "dangerous cool thing" that is viable if you ever wonder.


60 MAIN DECK

2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Academy Rector
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Starved Rusalka

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed

1 Pattern of Rebirth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Diabolic Intent


4 Cabal Therapy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

2 Garruk Relentless

1 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
1 Omniscience


SIDEBOARD 15

SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Faith's Fetter
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Leyline of Sanctity

I am not quite sure about the Relic as the 15th card, but whatever...

Lost to TES round 1, drew vs BUG R2, and lost to BUG R8 when the deck literally abandoned me (no lands on G1, no creature on G2 although I had Top...). Such a shame when I know the MU vs BUG is favorable to me.
Won vs Pox, UWb Rector, Esper, BUG, ANT and UW Rip/Helm (no Miracles there, but Misthollow Griffins weirdo...)

About my list, Gaddock was metagame call, as I expected a lot of Storm. I used to play 3 GSZ and 4 Decay, which seemed better to me. I wonder if I should be playing a 4th Top...
Need to get ready for Bazaar of Moxen !

FYI there was a GB Nic Fit list ending 68th, playing Helm/Leyline fo the Void*4 MD

@Notion Thief: Dirty dirty little boy :D makes me wanna play BUG
@Arianrhod: you forgot Future Sight the enchant list!, personally I would try the Doubling Season stuff with PWs.

[Arianrhod]

I'm not going to quote everyone's results because this page is already enormous, but congratulations to all =)

Only ended up 2-2 at my local last night -- got paired vs Reanimator (almost unwinnable) and my 12post list (deck abandoned me). However, I had a blast vs Reanimator, because I got to reanimate several of his things and at least made the matchup interesting; and more importantly, I finally figured out that goddamn open slot: Chameleon Colossus.

Yes, it doesn't have trample. I acknowledge that. However, it's an incredibly, insanely fast clock which also happens to play nicely with the tons-of-lands style of the deck. Multiple times on the night I had a Cham swinging for 16; once I could have hit 32 but opted to do something main2 because it was getting chumped anyway. It demands answers, in a deck full of things that demand answers. It also can make blocking incredibly awkward for people, especially when there's something that they really want to kill, like a Huntmaster, which is swinging alongside it. Pro-black was relevant on the night as well, because of the resurgence of popularity of Maelstrom Pulse as people are realizing that Abrupt Decay doesn't kill everything. Pro-black also won me a game because my opponent's Batterskull germ couldn't block (black creature). Absolute worst case, it's a Zenithable Abyss. Coupled with Deeds, though, it's usually much better. Definitely planning on testing it more going forward.

I also got in some testing with the Greater Good package, and, as feared, it ended up being vastly too derpy. When it went, it fucking WENT -- but it just wasn't stable enough, and it did nothing to fix the problems that Rector is having. Onward to brewing with Doubling Season, I guess.

[DireNTropy]

I love stoneblade and i've been playing it for ages, but BUG fit is awesome and I want to let you know that I was rooting for you the entire feature match! 44th ain't bad either, so well done!

Thanks! It was definitely a great first tournament and the deck was really fun to play.


Congrats to the result. You can look into my signature list for ideas.

I was just thinking that Wurmcoil Engine would be amazing against both Jund and Esperblade. How have the 2 copies been performing? Do you have issues with drawing too many 6 drops?


I played a GP in Strassbourg this weekend and wished I would have had a FOW many times in my first game. It is very frustrating to be on the draw and being killed before I could even do a thing. Even if you have to sideboard it I still think it deserves a MB spot in the current Combo heavy meta. Maybe different meta at your end?

Force of Will:
I agree with Tao. While Force of Will probably won me two game 1's (one against SI and one against Combo Elves), against all the other decks it was probably the worst card on my list. Having 6-7 mainboard discard, other disruption (Vendilion Clique, Liliana of the Veil, or Jace, the Mind Sculptor), and a fast clock gives BUg Nic Fit a decent chance to take game 1. And in games 2 and 3, you can sideboard in 4 Force of Will, 3 Negate (or other blue disruption); at which point the games should be in your favor.

I like using Counterbalance in the sideboard as it allows you to interact with discard, counterspells, and permanents. Combo decks are able to fight counterspells (Silence effects, discard), discard (Brainstorm, Ponder, etc), and permanents (bounce, Abrupt Decay), but may have a more difficult time dealing with multiple types.

[slikwilly]

Force of Will:
I agree with Tao. While Force of Will probably won me two game 1's (one against SI and one against Combo Elves), against all the other decks it was probably the worst card on my list. Having 6-7 mainboard discard, other disruption (Vendilion Clique, Liliana of the Veil, or Jace, the Mind Sculptor), and a fast clock gives BUg Nic Fit a decent chance to take game 1. And in games 2 and 3, you can sideboard in 4 Force of Will, 3 Negate (or other blue disruption); at which point the games should be in your favor.

Isn't it worth it to be better against combo and G1 and slightly worse against 'fair' decks if the matchup against fair decks is still good enough to win? Which is what your report suggests. G1 the deck is good enough to beat non-combo even with the not-so-great FoW in the deck. That seems to say that it's not worth it to take out the FoW. Why improve a matchup you're already going to win if doing so means weakening a matchup that needs every edge it can get?

[Qweerios]

Re-sleeved BUG this week after a long break. I have been on a streak of Landstill and Stoneblade for the past couple months and after facing Jund 3 rounds in a row at my last event, I decided to go back to my roots.

The list:


Creatures (10)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

Spells (27)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay

4 Pernicious Deed
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (23)
1 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
2 Thoughtseize
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Negate
4 Force of Will


R1: 2-1 vs. Merfolk
no sideboard

Tough matchup as always with BUG. Avoid Islands at all costs, and if you resolve a Deed you win.

R2: 2-0 vs. UWrb Counterbalance/Thopter Control with Entreat
-4 Therapy, -4 Explorer, +4 FoW, +4 Negate

Played a tight G1 and completely crushed G2 in the Jace/Counter war

R3: 0-2 vs. UBr Tempo
-1 Witness, +1 Selkie

Lost to 3 Tombstalker swings both games. I failed to find Jace/GSZ/Selkie/Deed@8. We played a couple of games before the tournament and I won them all so I will blame it on chance.

R4: 2-1 vs. BGw Pod Fit
-3 Explorer, -1 Deed, -4 Decay, +4 FoW, +4 Negate

Lost G1 to Recurring Nightmare/Thragtusk loop due to a misplay. Took G2 and G3 convincingly with Ooze/Jace with counter backup.

Finished 2nd.

Overall I am very pleased with the addition of Gitaxian Probe. It streamlines the deck quite a lot, gives me loads of information and is generally a blowout with Therapy. Paying 2-6 life for Probes is a non-issue because it allows me to make the best choices under pressure which usually leads to less life loss.

@Slikwilly

FoW main is not a bad idea because it is realistically hard-cast-able but the issue is with the blue count. It is currently impossible to have as much domination over fair decks when you have to include cards like Counterspell, Coiling Oracle, or Baleful Stryx when the deck could clearly support better options.

[Arianrhod]

A few people who have me on Facebook already know that I've come to this decision, but I figured I'd post here as well and just make it nice and official. After grappling with the problem of Rector's obsolescence for the past couple months privately, and week/two publicly, I've decided that Rector, as I play it and enjoy it, is not relevant to the metagame moving forward -- Scapewish is better in at least 85% of situations. I built a Doubling Season list, but to incorporate the maindeck planeswalkers and their attending packages, I had to cut almost everything about the deck that gives the deck its core identity in my mind. To me, the Soul of Rector, so to speak, is best summarized by something that I did an opponent at Jupiter last fall: I passed Eternal Witness through Nightmare loops sufficiently that I vindicated every red source in his deck, and was moving on to the black sources (my opponent was playing 4c Superfriends....so slow, but powerful). Those kinds of shenanigans are no longer possible in competitive legacy, I feel -- and even if they may one day be better, I still can't come up with a good enough rationalization for why I SHOULD rather run Rector, as opposed to why I would WANT to run Rector.

As such, I am personally suspending development on Rector as an archetype. You guys are of course more than welcome to continue on your own, and feel free to ask me questions about things I've tried in the past and so forth -- but I'll be focusing on going deep with Scapewish.

I'll miss you, baby =(

[Star|Scream]

So how do we make Scapewish better? I think 2 areas to evaluate are the ramp dudes and the midrange creatures. Are 3 huntmasters correct? What about Thrun or Ooze?

[TheArchitect]

Maybe some day it will be good again. But right now, you are right. Scapewish is just better. Im also probably going to be taking a bit of a break from nic fit (at least outside of casual events). Right now there is just too much combo in upstate New York. I played against TES 6 times, and other combo decks 4 times, in the past 15 rounds of competitive legacy I played. I'm going to play something blue. I'm not getting rid of scapewish though. It is still, easily, the most fun I've had with a legacy deck.

While we are on the topic of improving scapewish. Has any tried Primal growths? Ive always wondered why this isn't played, and just been too lazy to test it myself. Im guessing its a dead cards often, but if it was a 3-4 of, it would enable the turn 3 kill ALOT more often.

[vilnico]

@Arian: don't let her down ! at least try the Omniscience list :p

kiddin'
but I guess Red splashes have better sideboard vs combo than BGw has. In that sense I admit this must be better.
I still miss some Wood Elves to build and try it. ^^

[TheArchitect]

Gaze of Granite XBBG
Sorcery (R)
Destroy each nonland permanent with converted mana cost X or less.

Deed that kills jace and lily and is wishable.

Although if we can wish for this and cast it for more than 2 in the same turn we could just win instead. But still could be good in GBx or maybe its playable as a wish target in Scapewish.

[Arianrhod]

Instantly better than Damnation.

[Qweerios]

7 Mana to kill a Jace, I am not impressed.

[Bobmans]

7 Mana to kill a Jace, I am not impressed.

Karn Liberated also does that for 7 (colorless) mana.

[Arianrhod]

7 Mana to kill a Jace, I am not impressed.

For you yeah. Scapewish likes it a lot, though.

[MrIggins]

Did pretty poorly with Scapewish yesterday at NELC, though I got 2 very poor matchups in TES, where I couldn't draw hands with interaction and he killed me before I did anything relevant, and Belcher, which Belcher-ed all over everything. Lost to Shardless BUG as well, had trouble drawing action or tops in both games.

I think I'm going to try out a Regrowth in the wishboard. There were several games where I wanted access to that effect after my wish target got discarded or countered, or was topdecking wishes that didn't do anything because I was low on mana or my other targets didn't do anything. It may be too mana intensive but there were definitely several situations where I wanted it, so we'll see.

Also didn't have the Collective Voyage that Arianrhod has been advocating, so that's on deck for testing as well.

[Bobmans]

I've put together this list, thoughts?


4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Primeval Titan

2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Karn Liberated

4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse

1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta

//SB:
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Counterbalance
2 Flusterstorm


No FoW: don't like in a deck with such a few blue count. Counterbalance should be taking care of combo, along with Flusterstorm, Thoughseize and expirpate/surgical.
1 Trop: just don't have two.
Volrath's Stronghold: I do like to play this one and i actually used it a lot on DRS/Ooze/Witness
DRS: i like this card, since siding out Veteran Explorers sometimes misses ramping/colorfixing.
Ooze: is like a one card combo against a lot of decks.

The rest speaks for themselves i guess.

[Zombie]

Drown in Filth :b::g:
Sorcery
Choose target creature. Put the top four cards of your library into your graveyard, then that creatures gets -1/-1 until end of turn for each land card in your graveyard.

In the vein of porting Standard decks into Legacy: Dredge/Durdle-Fit? Or should this just be played in aggroloam?

[Ayotte]

Got top 8 today playing Scapeshift at my LGS's 1k event with around 50 players. I didn't take notes, but I will post what I remember at work tomorrow.

[Arianrhod]

Grats, Ayotte =)

I had a rough day at Jupiter this time -- went 3-3 and then dropped for the last round so I could take care of trades for myself and friends. Just gonna do a flashpoint summary:

R1 UWR Geistblade -- favorable matchup, but I draw literally no gas either game and he just kills me while I play lands and ramp critters. I stalled for a long time in g2, but I just couldn't draw into anything. I never saw a Top, a Deed, or a Wish in either game IIRC.

R2 Bye AKA Affinity (Ravager/Disciple build) -- Huntmaster RUINS him game one by flipping back and forth killing all of his things and making chumpers. Then mountains. Game two he mulled and never saw blue mana for the thoughtcasts and masters of etherium that were stranded in his hand. I never drew a Deed to completely ruin his mood, but BW->Damnation did pull some work where Pyroclasm wouldn't have gotten there.

R3 U/R Delver -- sick of playing against this thing, lol. We go to three, splitting the first two in very close manor both times. He screws up game three -- we're both pretty low on life, but I'm feeling very unsafe. I've been drawing literally nothing but lands -- at one point, I had 5 lands in my hand in addition to 7 or so in play. Goblin Guide may have had something to do with this, but still. I topdeck a Scapeshift, and decide to go for it. He tanks and eventually Forces -- I find out after the game that he had Price in hand but didn't know that he could Price in resp. to the Valakut triggers. A turn or two later Huntmaster happens, and then happens again. I win from there -- dodged a bullet, though. The increasing popularity of this deck is annoying me.

R4 Sneak/Show -- I've played against Graham a bunch, and they're always interesting games, although it's Sneak, so I mean, blah. Game one I mull to 4 trying to find any kind of interaction. My 4 is Therapy, Avenger, Badlands, Mountain. I GUESS. I lead with Therapy, blind hitting Brainstorm. I see Griselbrand and Sneak Attack, along with a few lands. I draw a Veteran, but have no way to play it. He drops a Top and ships back. I draw a non-green land and pass; he plays a Lotus Petal and a land to play Sneak, but can't activate it. I tap the top of my deck and I get there: Mangrovensumpf for the win! Slam down Vet, Therapy him. He blind-draws off Top hoping to hit a Force, and instead draws a 2nd Griselbrand. Awkward. I procede to draw more lands while he durdles for a few turns. I hit 7 lands and attempt to play Avenger, but he has a Force. A turn or two later he finally hits business, and Intuitions for triple Emrakul. I tank the hit with a Thragtusk and 0 lands left in play. I swing when he passes back, and put him to 1. He rips Griselbrand off the top and gains 7. I put him back to 2, and he draws ANOTHER Griselbrand to kill me. The depths of my tilt. I almost won on a mull to 4 dammit!

Game two is textbook -- I find out that he's running Leyline of Sanctity and my mood immediately drops...but luckily I found it out via a Therapy and not t0 (he drew one for his first turn...awkward). I weave a hymn of Therapy and Slaughter Games and slowly remove his ways to win. We eventually get into the position where he has a Griselbrand in play from Show and Tell, but no longer has Emrakuls or Force of Wills left in his deck. Without Forces, I Shift to victory.

Game three I don't remember exactly off the top of my head. I do remember that it was another very, very close game (where Leyline also did not make an appearance). Unfortunately, he got there in the very end -- I got him close, but I couldn't quite finish. A hasty Emrakul finished me off. I put up one hell of a fight, and am really proud of this match against one of our greatest nemeses.

R5 Esperblade -- vs a good friend of mine. Game one I bricked a ton of draws and he got there. Game two I made the questionable call of Slaughter Gamesing away his Stoneforged Sword of Feast/Famine because I didn't have a discard spell handy. I then won from there. Game three I got to instant-speed sac a Veteran to use a Mountain to shoot a Clique in response to a Batterskull equip, and then took down the game from there after a pair of timely Red Elemental Blasts; the first on Jace TMS and the second on a Venser (with Riptide Lab in play).

R6 U/W Blade -- same as round one. I proceed to draw all lands and mana critters while goes nuts with Jacestorm and Clique beatdown. I still manage to get game two via Scapeshift, and Slaughter Games shows me that he has a TON of stuff for Burning Wish (Snares, BEBs, etc), so I reboard for game three to put the Wish targets in and take the Wishes out. Game three I make a critical mistake where I REB an early brainstorm that I read as being a "dig for lands" situation. A turn later I don't have the REB for his Jace, and things go downhill from there, as he gets to brainstorm every turn while I'm drawing lands.

Fairly good meta for Scapewish at Jupiter this time -- deck just decided that it didn't feel like winning. Lots of Blade, and most of the combo was Show and Tell based, which is oddly winnable for Scapewish due to the REBs/Games. Not something you WANT to play against, but it's at least winnable...as long as they don't have Leyline of Sanctity too.

---------------------------

Collective Voyage was never used, mostly because the situation that it's in the deck for never came up. I switched Perish to Virtue's Ruin again because of the resurgence of DnT (and indeed, there were a few DnT decks present), but I never used it in my matches (nor would I have used Perish, either). I successfully got to Bramblecrush a Jace, which felt awesome and hilarious. Chameleon Colossus was a horrifying monster several times on the day, and pro-Batterskull is amazing, as was pro-Vindicate vs Esper. Unfortunately Swords and/or Supreme Verdicts were found before he got to go too insane, but he applied a ton of pressure and did some pretty good work. I can also see situations happening where Show and Tell puts out Griselbrand and you drop Chameleon and just kill them.

Happy with where things stand overall for Scapewish. Gaze of Granite will definitely replace Damnation in the wisboard -- I expect that I'll lose a game now and then because it isn't Damnation and it costs too much to Wish+use in most situations; but I also expect that it'll win me some games that Damnation wouldn't have, so it'll balance out. Overall, I'd rather have Gaze as I think that it's better in more situations.

I don't see anything else in Dragon's Maze that's relevant for Scapewish. Drown in Filth is interesting, but seems more at home in something like Aggro Loam if it's going to see play anywhere.

[Star|Scream]

Congrats Ayotte! Can't wait to see your list.

So I'm trying to brainstorm this new deed sorcery. Here are some situations I'm considering.

X=0 to kill goblin tokens, flipped delvers, or souls. Pulse is easier to cast here.

X=1 to kill mongeese, delvers, goblin guide, lackeys, shaman, veteran, etc.
Pyroclasm hits all of those cheaper.
Perish/Virtue are cheaper and hits tougher creatures.
Damnation costs the same but also hits their tougher creatures.
However you can use it as a one-sided damnation here since your creatures (usually) cost more

X=2 to kill goyfs, thalia, stoneforge, also rest in peace, etc.
Damnation is cheaper, but this can at least save your creatures.

X=3 to kill Equipment, Liliana, and MOST legacy creatures
I believe this is the card's sweet spot--taking out multiple permanent types your opponents control, including planeswalkers, while leaving your guys relatively unharmed.

x=4 to kill Jace, leylines, helm.
Now you're talking 7 mana, not counting 1R to wish for it. As was previously stated, if you have 9 mana in one turn, scapeshift is the better out, except vs a leyline, I suppose.

[TheArchitect]

I dont think Gaze will be playable as a wish target. If you can wish+gaze for 2, you can just win instead. Maelstrom pulse can deal with tokens/helm/jace/leyline, etc. Damnation/pyroclasm/perish/ruin can deal with creatures.

I think the UR matchup is really good. You have just had some poor luck. Kind of like RUG, unless they draw the actual nuts, none of their threats matter and thragtusk and huntmaster beat their whole deck.

[Ayotte]

So yeah, my LGS is less than a year old and the owner, who is a really cool guy, has decided to start doing monthly $1k+ tournaments alternating between Legacy and Standard. This sunday, he had one, and I played Scapewish. Identical to Arianrhod's list except:

+1 Wood Elves
+1 Kessig Wolf Run
+1 Verdant Catacombs
-1 Forest
-1 Chameleon Colossus
-1 Avenger of Zendikar
SB:
-1 Bramblecrush
-1 Virtue's Ruin
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Ruination

Round 1: Enchantress with RIP/Helm combo
Game 1 he combos off on turn 3 or something before I even get a chance to play+pop deed
Game 2 he is stuck on 2 lands so eventually I deed him and kill him from there
Game 3 I don't remember at all but I win
Matches 1-0 Games 2-1

Round 2: Miracles with Punishing Fire
Game 1 I cast Thrag, then GSZ@6, both of which he counters, which was all part of the plan because I Scapeshift him the next turn (was turn 5 or so)
Game 2 I don't really remember but I won
Matches 2-0 Games 4-1

Round 3: Goblins
Game 1 He gets a nut draw with Lackey into matron into double warchief ringleader and I die on turn 4.
Game 2 I win with deeds and thragtusks
Game 3 I win with deeds and thragtusks
Matches 3-0 Games 6-2

Round 4: Affinity
Game 1 comes down to him using Tezzeret ult, then me casting Scapeshift for 18 and him scooping the turn before I die to plated fliers. While shuffling for next game, he remembers that Tezzeret's ult gains him life, which I didn't even know. He calls a judge and tries to get me to concede the game to him but I'm like "you already scooped." The judge is like "you scooped, what do you want?"
Game 2 he gets double plating and turn 3s me.
Game 3 is a close one but deed and scapeshift get there. I offer him a handshake but then he goes off on me about how I don't deserve it and how I cheated by lying to him about his life total game 1 and how I'm a scumbag and he'll be watching me for cheating for the rest of the day. Ok bro.
Matches 4-0 Games 8-3

Round 5: Show and Tell
This match goes exactly as one would expect.
Matches 4-1 Games 8-5

Round 6: UR Delver
Both games, he gives me a bunch of lands off of goblin guide into my SDT, which means I'm casting Thragtusks and Huntmasters and there's not much he can do against that.
Matches 5-1 Games 10-5

Top 8 Round 1 vs Combo Elves
Game 1: I keep a 5 card hand with no green source and turn 3 natural order kills me before I have a chance to wish for pyroclasm.
Game 2: I keep a 6 card hand with no green source but with top and deed so I keep. Deed gives me the time to set up scapeshift.
Game 3: My starting hand is veteran explorer, veteran explorer, phyrexian tower, bayou, therapy, burning wish, huntmaster. I double therapy him and leave him with regal force and glimpse of nature in hand, with me having huntmaster in play, 6 lands, and a land and a burning wish ready for the kill next turn. He top decks the second glimpse, then goes off with quirion ranger/symbiote and kills me.

Overall, fun tournament, except for the kerfuffle on round 4. I really like what the LGS owner is doing for our Legacy community. He has 2 weekly $5 tournaments that draw 12-20 players, and this one had people from Iowa/Chicago/Milwaukee all driving over to play.

[Arianrhod]

I dont think Gaze will be playable as a wish target. If you can wish+gaze for 2, you can just win instead. Maelstrom pulse can deal with tokens/helm/jace/leyline, etc. Damnation/pyroclasm/perish/ruin can deal with creatures.

I think the UR matchup is really good. You have just had some poor luck. Kind of like RUG, unless they draw the actual nuts, none of their threats matter and thragtusk and huntmaster beat their whole deck.

Yeah@U/R -- I never had a problem with it in the past, historically. Then at some point a few months ago, they started magically always having a Price of Progress in their hand to stop me from Shifting, and a fast enough clock that getting to Huntmaster/Thragtusk is not a certain thing. It's like they just stopped drawing basics and dazes completely and every draw they have all game is live, which is a miserable feeling (and how we lose to burn, incidentally). I know it isn't a bad matchup, and it's not like I'm planning changes to better plan for it or something....I'm just bellyaching, lol.

As for Gaze, I look at it a little differently. Consider the wishboard. Each option needs to have a unique purpose...to give Burning Wish a different Mode, if you will....ala Cryptic Command:

1R+B: Each player sacrifices a creature. Necessary as a black-based Explorer sac outlet; also to remove problem creatures on an empty board (Show and Tell, post-sweep)
1R+B: Reanimate for value, to get back E.Wit to get back something else, their Griselbrand/other fatty, etc.
1R+B: Target player reveals their hand, you lose 2 life and make them discard a nonland. Burning into discard is good vs combo (obv) and also for getting rid of pesky equipment from Stoneforge Mystic.
1R+G (+x): Ramp. Voyage is essentially a pass-the-turn option, since you don't want to waste the 2 mana from the Wish as a rule. A ramp option needs to present, still not sure if Voyage is correct.
1R+1R: Weenie sweeper. Tokens, Delvers, Lavamen, and so on.
1R+2B: Teeg killer. Also useful vs DnT or Elves, depending on which way you go; either option also kills Progenitus and obliterates Maverick.
1R+xBBB: General purpose sweeper for when you need sweep vs non-green/white options. Merfolk is a prime offender, as is Junk, BUG, and Blade: scenarios where Pyroclasm won't get it done, and the colors are either too evenly divided or not right.
1R+2GG: Destroy target Glacial Chasm, Jace, Academy Ruins, Riptide Lab, Karakas, Batterskull, Jitte, Sword of Dumb/Dumber, and so on.
1R+2GG: Win the game.
1R+2RB: Win the game (vs different decks).
(+5 REB/additional Games)

Some of these are pretty terrible. Bramblecrush in particular emerges looking atrocious: 6 mana for a non-creature vindicate? Really? But, keep in mind something about Burning Wish: it's not always used as a Cryptic Command. Sometimes it's used as a down payment. Lots of times vs DnT I'll Burning for Virtue's Ruin on t2 and then slam it on t3, which is significantly better. In the same way, consider Slaughter Games. I don't think there's a person playing this deck who will say that Slaughter Games is bad. In fact, I think most will agree it's pretty damn awesome. But 1R+2RB is miserable. That's why the more common line is to Burning for it earlier, then play it on the next turn. This is exactly how I see Gaze of Granite going. It's a "pass the turn pile," so to speak. You Burning for it, then next turn you slam it down and everything goes away. Now, I'll grant you that for X=4 you need to have 7 lands in play, at which point you can usually just win. But sometimes, you can't. Sometimes they've had a batterskull trucking away, or they have an onboard Wasteland. Sometimes they've got a Swords in their hand and can Swords their KotR to gain a million life. Etc.

It may end up not being good enough. But I'm at least going to try it and make that evaluation before giving up on it sight unseen.

---------

I will say, though, that my modern deck is very happy about it. Glittering Gifts ftw =D

[Arianrhod]

So yeah, my LGS is less than a year old and the owner, who is a really cool guy, has decided to start doing monthly $1k+ tournaments alternating between Legacy and Standard. This sunday, he had one, and I played Scapewish. Identical to Arianrhod's list except:

+1 Wood Elves
+1 Kessig Wolf Run
+1 Verdant Catacombs
-1 Forest
-1 Chameleon Colossus
-1 Avenger of Zendikar
SB:
-1 Bramblecrush
-1 Virtue's Ruin
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Ruination

Round 1: Enchantress with RIP/Helm combo
Game 1 he combos off on turn 3 or something before I even get a chance to play+pop deed
Game 2 he is stuck on 2 lands so eventually I deed him and kill him from there
Game 3 I don't remember at all but I win
Matches 1-0 Games 2-1

Round 2: Miracles with Punishing Fire
Game 1 I cast Thrag, then GSZ@6, both of which he counters, which was all part of the plan because I Scapeshift him the next turn (was turn 5 or so)
Game 2 I don't really remember but I won
Matches 2-0 Games 4-1

Round 3: Goblins
Game 1 He gets a nut draw with Lackey into matron into double warchief ringleader and I die on turn 4.
Game 2 I win with deeds and thragtusks
Game 3 I win with deeds and thragtusks
Matches 3-0 Games 6-2

Round 4: Affinity
Game 1 comes down to him using Tezzeret ult, then me casting Scapeshift for 18 and him scooping the turn before I die to plated fliers. While shuffling for next game, he remembers that Tezzeret's ult gains him life, which I didn't even know. He calls a judge and tries to get me to concede the game to him but I'm like "you already scooped." The judge is like "you scooped, what do you want?"
Game 2 he gets double plating and turn 3s me.
Game 3 is a close one but deed and scapeshift get there. I offer him a handshake but then he goes off on me about how I don't deserve it and how I cheated by lying to him about his life total game 1 and how I'm a scumbag and he'll be watching me for cheating for the rest of the day. Ok bro.
Matches 4-0 Games 8-3

Round 5: Show and Tell
This match goes exactly as one would expect.
Matches 4-1 Games 8-5

Round 6: UR Delver
Both games, he gives me a bunch of lands off of goblin guide into my SDT, which means I'm casting Thragtusks and Huntmasters and there's not much he can do against that.
Matches 5-1 Games 10-5

Top 8 Round 1 vs Combo Elves
Game 1: I keep a 5 card hand with no green source and turn 3 natural order kills me before I have a chance to wish for pyroclasm.
Game 2: I keep a 6 card hand with no green source but with top and deed so I keep. Deed gives me the time to set up scapeshift.
Game 3: My starting hand is veteran explorer, veteran explorer, phyrexian tower, bayou, therapy, burning wish, huntmaster. I double therapy him and leave him with regal force and glimpse of nature in hand, with me having huntmaster in play, 6 lands, and a land and a burning wish ready for the kill next turn. He top decks the second glimpse, then goes off with quirion ranger/symbiote and kills me.

Overall, fun tournament, except for the kerfuffle on round 5. I really like what the LGS owner is doing for our Legacy community. He has 2 weekly $5 tournaments that draw 12-20 players, and this one had people from Iowa/Chicago/Milwaukee all driving over to play.

How was Wolf Run this time?

Also, I think I would cut the 3rd Wood Elves before cutting Chameleon. That guy has been REALLY impressing me.

Shame about the Elves match -- I've noticed that Elves has a tendency of doing that (you're fine, then they rip Glimpse and just kill you). Not much we can do about it other than hope that they don't get it, though.

I've never met a legacy Affinity player that I've liked yet (in about 6 years now of playing legacy). They're universally douchebags and the less interaction one has with them, the better. #ReasonsToPlayDeed.

[Ayotte]

How was Wolf Run this time?

Also, I think I would cut the 3rd Wood Elves before cutting Chameleon. That guy has been REALLY impressing me.

Shame about the Elves match -- I've noticed that Elves has a tendency of doing that (you're fine, then they rip Glimpse and just kill you). Not much we can do about it other than hope that they don't get it, though.

I've never met a legacy Affinity player that I've liked yet (in about 6 years now of playing legacy). They're universally douchebags and the less interaction one has with them, the better. #ReasonsToPlayDeed.

I really like wolf run. I used to have it in place of a colored land, which sucked, but after putting it in instead of a guy, I really like it. It's great to have random Sakura-Tribe Elder topdecks not be completely irrelevant late game. About Wood Elves: I feel like the reason I lose games with this deck is usually because I couldn't ramp fast enough. Wood elves helps with that, while Chameleon doesn't really. Also, it wasn't really a decision on what to cut, it was just a decision not to add Chameleon :). I haven't tested him at all.

[UseLess]

At the moment I am still tinkering with my BUG fit list. Thinking about adding more control in the form of MB FoW and counterspells. Couple of questions (that have been answered a zillion times before, I know). How many blue cards do you need for 3 or 4 FoW's? Currently Im thinking of running 17-18 blue cards, but deck space is REALLY tight atm, so if I could do with less that would be a relieve.
What other counters might be good MB in nic fit? I like Daze in SB vs combo and stuff, but I feel it's gonna be dead half of the times in the main. Spell pierce and negate seem both so so, but UU for counterspell is not ideal either. So kind of a dilemma here. Maybe something like a 2/2 negate/spell pierce split could work?
Final question: are there any good UG creatures? Ideally I could add some sort of finisher that is Zenithable and pitchable to FoW. Gatherer didn't reveal much on first sight, but maybe I have overlooked one.

Final remark, Im gonna try out Notion Thief as a 2 off. He seems pretty cool and castable in Nic Fit. It would be hilarious in response to Brainstorm, because if Im correct they still need to put two cards from their hand back. Also going to test Far//Away as a one off, really like that card. Will let you know once I have some results.

[marumari]

At the moment I am still tinkering with my BUG fit list. Thinking about adding more control in the form of MB FoW and counterspells. Couple of questions (that have been answered a zillion times before, I know). How many blue cards do you need for 3 or 4 FoW's? Currently Im thinking of running 17-18 blue cards, but deck space is REALLY tight atm, so if I could do with less that would be a relieve.
What other counters might be good MB in nic fit? I like Daze in SB vs combo and stuff, but I feel it's gonna be dead half of the times in the main. Spell pierce and negate seem both so so, but UU for counterspell is not ideal either. So kind of a dilemma here. Maybe something like a 2/2 negate/spell pierce split could work?
Final question: are there any good UG creatures? Ideally I could add some sort of finisher that is Zenithable and pitchable to FoW. Gatherer didn't reveal much on first sight, but maybe I have overlooked one.

Final remark, Im gonna try out Notion Thief as a 2 off. He seems pretty cool and castable in Nic Fit. It would be hilarious in response to Brainstorm, because if Im correct they still need to put two cards from their hand back. Also going to test Far//Away as a one off, really like that card. Will let you know once I have some results.

I've had decks with as few as 16, but it's very unreliable at that point. In my opinion, 18 is the reliable minimum, although I've seen arguments for 17. It's a real shame that RTR Block didn't give us any great Simic creatures. The deck has a real synergy problem if you run both GSZ and Force of Will.

I do like Notion Thief as a 2-of in BUG Nic Fit. It's a casual 6-for-1 against Brainstorm and that's generally going to be enough to completely end a game most of the time.

[60641k]

Yesterday I killed showandtelled emrakul via wish into damnation in tests) so I don't think I will change it to sorcery deed in wishboard=)

Reading this thread for long time. I want to thank Kevin (Arianrhod) for his enormous contribution to the development of this deck:wink: Especially for my favorite rector build! I had some success with it in my locals so it is very sad for me that you left rector indefinitely.
I'm not a great specialist in legacy and do not play for a long time this format. But this year I'm going to BOM. Is there any chance for the rector in the supposed metagame or better give it up and play with Scapewish?

[Star|Scream]

Yesterday I killed showandtelled emrakul via wish into damnation in tests) so I don't think I will change it to sorcery deed in wishboard=)


That is awesome, but innocent blood would have handled that for less, and you really should have one in your side as an early out to flipped delvers, bobs, and emergency ramp through explorer.

[Arianrhod]

Yesterday I killed showandtelled emrakul via wish into damnation in tests) so I don't think I will change it to sorcery deed in wishboard=)

Reading this thread for long time. I want to thank Kevin (Arianrhod) for his enormous contribution to the development of this deck:wink: Especially for my favorite rector build! I had some success with it in my locals so it is very sad for me that you left rector indefinitely.
I'm not a great specialist in legacy and do not play for a long time this format. But this year I'm going to BOM. Is there any chance for the rector in the supposed metagame or better give it up and play with Scapewish?

As Starscream already noted, Innocent Blood does that job better. I'll reiterate that I'm planning on just testing Gaze and seeing how it goes -- not like OMG REPLACE IT NOW.

As for Rector at BoM -- the question is how much Esperblade is going to be there. Rector is still a fine choice vs Esperblade -- the issue is that Deathrite Shaman and RIP cause problems......and most of the rest of the meta (non-DRS, non-RIP) is combo, so they just don't care.

I've laid out my problems with Rector since RtR in pretty good detail in the past few pages, so I won't go through all of that again. Basically, the question is what % of the meta is DRS, what % is RIP, and what % is combo. Whatever the remainder is, you're good against. You can beat Miracles (even with RIP) with Rector if you have ET+ Helm in your sideboard. DRS.dec is a crapshoot, as is combo. Scapewish is generally favored against the same remainder, vs Miracles, and vs most iterations of DRS.dec -- and it CAN be combo, it's just rough.

I will close by noting that if you're really familiar with Rector and not Scapewish, you should probably stick with Rector unless you're able to put in a lot of testing time between now and BoM. Familiarity with a deck is paramount in my book -- and Nic Fit in general rewards familiarity. I've said in the past that if you want to win events with Nic Fit (of any stripe), you need a good 6-12 months of experience with the deck -- and I mean good, solid tournament experience. Switching from Rector to Scapewish will shave a few months off of that timer, just by base familiarity with Nic Fit...but Scapewish requires different decision trees and different understanding than Rector does, and it can take time to build that (as Iggins learned at Jupiter this weekend).

[60641k]

That is awesome, but innocent blood would have handled that for less, and you really should have one in your side as an early out to flipped delvers, bobs, and emergency ramp through explorer.

obv I had inblood too but he had 2 creatures on the battelfield in that time:smile:

[Star|Scream]

obv I had inblood too but he had 2 creatures on the battelfield in that time:smile:

2 Creatures from Show and Tell? Was the other one Grisselbrand? And you still got to push through a wish and a damnation? Yikes!

[Arianrhod]

2 Creatures from Show and Tell? Was the other one Grisselbrand? And you still got to push through a wish and a damnation? Yikes!

My guess would be 12post.

[Star|Scream]

My guess would be 12post.

Well specifically in that case, new card sux.

[Arianrhod]

Well specifically in that case, new card sux.

Specifically in that case, most cards suck ^_^

[benofzongo]

I'm sure this has already been discussed somewhere in the 4600+ posts to this thread but I was just wondering: has anyone brewed some sort of mashup between Nic Fit and either Natural Order or living wish/depths/hexmage? Seems like there might be some synergy there...or is it just dilution of both without added benefit?
Thanks,
Ben

[Qweerios]

Gaze of Granite has no worth, even for Burning Wish. Pulse and Damnation are much better for 99.9% of cases.

@Benofzongo,

Wish overlaps with GSZ. NO is a plan, but perhaps not the most reliable one.

[TheArchitect]

I'm sure this has already been discussed somewhere in the 4600+ posts to this thread but I was just wondering: has anyone brewed some sort of mashup between Nic Fit and either Natural Order or living wish/depths/hexmage? Seems like there might be some synergy there...or is it just dilution of both without added benefit?
Thanks,
Ben

Ive tried GB with natural order and it wasnt very good. NO is better in decks with a few creatures and blue, or a ton of green creatures. It wasnt awful, but just not amazing. You can play NO if you have a green dude to sac for 4, or you can just play thrun or grave titan no matter what your board presence is and not worry about countermagic as much.

I think some kind of GBW or BUG good stuff deck with living wish and depths might not be that bad. Im not sure anyones tried it though.

[sherko7]

Played Punishing Nic Fit in a local tourney (14 players, it was just a side event) and went 1-2-1 (1 win was because of a bye :(). This was the first time I played the Punishing list in a tourney (was using HoneyT's list with a slightly modified SB).

Drew round 1 against UW CouterTop/RiPHelm/Miracles. The number of misplays I made was just crazy. Not to mention the boarding mistakes. I could have played better, and honestly the pilot was great as well. Venser Karakas was crazy good.

Round 2 was against Burn. 50-50 matchup due to Skullcrack running rampant. We went to game 3 and after keeping a hand of 3 non-basics and chump blocking his Vexing Devil with 2 Veteran Explorers, my turn 3 Thragtusk met a Skullcrack and I received 2 Rift Bolts and 2 Price of Progress to the dome FTL.

Round 3 was SnT. Game 1 I scooped immediately after turn 2 Emrakul. Game 2 I kept a hand with Grove of the Burnwllows, Mountain, Pyroblast, Extirpate, Carpet of Flowers, Cabal Therapy and Slaughter Games. His turn 2 SnT met an unchallenged Pyroblast. Double black on my turn 3 off of Carpet of Flowers which I used to Extirpate his SnT and Cabal Therapy his Brainstorms. Finally, Turn 4 Slaughter Games on Sneak Attack and he scooped immediately. Game 3 I mulled to 4 looking for hate. Found 1 Pyroblast and kept. Another turn 2 SnT, Pyro met FoW and that was that.

Round 4 - bye :(

I really love Garruk PH, especially in my old GB list. I really want space for a 2nd piece in the Punishing list, but I can't seem to find room. Someone suggested I cut 1 SDT (dropping to 2). Nope, not even thinking about it. Feels like I have to cut the lone Garruk PH for now though. Yes its crazy good, but having just a lone piece makes it a bit inconsistent. Its not GSZ-able as well. I'm thinking of a 3rd Huntmaster or a 2nd Thragtusk for now.

Thoughts?:smile:

On a side note, any other decks I can easily build with the cards I already have in Punishing Nic Fit? I know Nic Fit doesn't have many cards usable in other archetypes, but I wanna work with what I already have. :)

[Star|Scream]

I would say that the deck that shares the most cards with punishing nic fit would be punishing jund. I don't know if you have bobs, goyfs, or liliana, but hopefully modern masters will help with card availability with the two former cards.

[plogan]

I recently have been testing HoneyT's punishing list with a second Garruk PH in place of the second Bayou. I haven't noticed any sort of land screw as a result and though it opens the deck up a bit more to wasteland, the second Garruk is amazing as in my opinion it is one of the strongest cards in the deck. As I play rector normally, the card feels like this versions recycle with added benefits of being able to make dudes.

[Asatas]

I'm sure this has already been discussed somewhere in the 4600+ posts to this thread but I was just wondering: has anyone brewed some sort of mashup between Nic Fit and either Natural Order or living wish/depths/hexmage? Seems like there might be some synergy there...or is it just dilution of both without added benefit?
Thanks,
Ben

actually i am doing the Hexmage Depths thing in BGw. i only have a rough draft and my SB is junk, but the main deck packs a lot more random win percentage than "ramp to 6 and win with a Titan" while keeping its control identity.
sb rly needs work though, Don't know what to run MD and what SB between GSZ, Fauna Shaman, KotR and Living Wish...
http://www.mtgvault.com/asatas/decks/deep-nic-fit/

[sherko7]

I would say that the deck that shares the most cards with punishing nic fit would be punishing jund. I don't know if you have bobs, goyfs, or liliana, but hopefully modern masters will help with card availability with the two former cards.

Unfortunately I do not have those. I've been thinking about getting Goyfs and Bobs for a while, but they're just not my cup of tea. :tongue: I'd rather build a Merfolk deck than buy those 2 sets of cards :P Price is close enough anyway.

[waSP]

Did you guys all abandon Cryptic Command in the blue lists? It's at worst a cantrip Fog against most decks.

I was playing with a Panoptic Mirror list for awhile and eventually dropped the Mirrors for more Time Warp and Cryptic Command. I don't think this deck can profitably run FoW main without more explicit card advantage.

Lands:
3 Forest
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Underground Sea

Creatures:
4 Eternal Witness
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Thragtusk

Removal:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse

Blue cards:
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Cryptic Command
4 Time Warp
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard:
4 Engineered Plague
3 Negate
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Memoricide

The lack of Green Sun's Zenith is probably the most obvious thing about this list. It was in the earlier lists (along with Shardless Agent, Primeval Titan, et al.), but got cut for more removal and more good blue cards. It just didn't fit the curve. I had Force of Will in the sideboard but replaced it with Thoughtseize due to lack of blue cards. I would REALLY like to fit in Karn Liberated. I'm considering cutting a Jace for it. Another potential tweak would add Vendilion Clique for one Time Warp.

You get to do fun stuff with the bounce effects (Cryptic Command and Jace) and Eternal Witnesses. Makes me wish Venser, the Sojourner was good enough to run in this deck.

The sideboard is tuned for the terrible meta on MWS.

[kabards]

Chains of Mephistopheles is now very good against deck using extra draw, but chains already skyrocket its price to $200 :eek:

[Claymore]

Voice of Resurgence + Recurring Nightmare?

[kingtk3]

Voice of Resurgence + Recurring Nightmare?

I think Kokusho would still be better with recurring nigthmare.

[Claymore]

Voice in general might be a nice back up tool for when Nic Fit can't find those Explorers

[plogan]

I think Rector would appreciate another threat in the two drop slot so I could see voice being viable

[plogan]

Hey all I'm having a bit of an issue with Jund using a pretty generic Rector build. Any suggestions on how to make the matchup more winnable?

[drfontaine]

BUG nicfit

3 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Thragtusk
1 Prime Speaker Zegana

3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Dimir Charm
2 Curfew
2 Far // Away

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Pernicious Deed

2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
3 Forest
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs


SB: 2 Notion Thief
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze

What you guys think of this fresh dragon maze BUGfit list? SB just kinda random atm, since havnt playtested it enough to really know what it needs.

The removal suit is very bounce heavy although it synergizes well with witness/thrag/clique and cabal and i've played similair lists before maze and think the far//away addition is actually quite sweet and really makes sense in a BUGfit list trying to MD force, since it helps alot with bluecount.

This list is Beta however and could definetly use some help from you guys although i really belive it has nice potential!

[sherko7]

Hey all I'm having a bit of an issue with Jund using a pretty generic Rector build. Any suggestions on how to make the matchup more winnable?

G1 is usually difficult but in our favor, like 51-49 lol. Not sure about Rector though. Keep a hand with good disruption and removal even post-Thoughtseize and you should be fine. I like Obstinate Baloth, but it seems a bit too narrow for my taste. Thrun is the hero here. :laugh:

[Ayotte]

BUG nicfit

3 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Thragtusk
1 Prime Speaker Zegana

3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Dimir Charm
2 Curfew
2 Far // Away

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Pernicious Deed

2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
3 Forest
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs


SB: 2 Notion Thief
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze

What you guys think of this fresh dragon maze BUGfit list? SB just kinda random atm, since havnt playtested it enough to really know what it needs.

The removal suit is very bounce heavy although it synergizes well with witness/thrag/clique and cabal and i've played similair lists before maze and think the far//away addition is actually quite sweet and really makes sense in a BUGfit list trying to MD force, since it helps alot with bluecount.

This list is Beta however and could definetly use some help from you guys although i really belive it has nice potential!

I like the idea and I will probably test it out at some point.

[kabards]

I finished 11th on last tournament May 5, 2013 with a total of 70+ players using my Punishing Nic-Fit. Got lost to RUG mana flood, and OmniTel topped deck a burning wish :(
here's the list that i used.

Punishing Nic-Fit

Creatures : 13

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Primeval Titan

Spells : 24
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

Lands : 23
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Sideboard : 15

3 Thoughtseize
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Slaughter Games
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Red Elemental Blast

here my match ups

2-0 Esper Blade
2-0 Esper Blade
2-0 Merfolk
1-2 RUG
1-2 OmniTel
2-0 Sneak Show
2-0 Hive Mind but definitely a 2-1 game he just gave me a sweep so i can move up to the standing.

[Megadeus]

Looks VERY similar to my old PFire list (pre Abrupt Decay though). I like it a lot. Garruk Primal Hunter is insane.

[Allenthar]

So I'm working on building out Scapewish right now, and I could use some advice on the creature base.

In terms of the "core" set of creatures, it really seem like it's this:

4 Veteran Explorer
1-2 Wood Elves
1-2 Sakura Tribe Elder
1-2 Eternal Witness

After that, what are people favorite options? Mostly one-of's, and relying on Green Sun's Zenith to fetch what you need? Or more redundancy?

The options I'm looking at right now are:
Huntmaster of the Fells
Thrun, the Last Troll
Thragtusk
Primeval Titan
Avenger of Zendikar

Are there are any particular options I'm missing that you like? Or a particular mix that people feel is "optimal"?

[Rizso]

BUG nicfit

3 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Thragtusk
1 Prime Speaker Zegana

3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Dimir Charm
2 Curfew
2 Far // Away

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Pernicious Deed

2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
3 Forest
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs


SB: 2 Notion Thief
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze

What you guys think of this fresh dragon maze BUGfit list? SB just kinda random atm, since havnt playtested it enough to really know what it needs.

The removal suit is very bounce heavy although it synergizes well with witness/thrag/clique and cabal and i've played similair lists before maze and think the far//away addition is actually quite sweet and really makes sense in a BUGfit list trying to MD force, since it helps alot with bluecount.

This list is Beta however and could definetly use some help from you guys although i really belive it has nice potential!

Progenitor Mimic also seem like a perfect card for the bug version a gsz:able clone that will end up taking over the game. And becomes insane with with recurring nightmare as you can stack up the "it gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, if this creature isn't a token, put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of this creature."".

[Star|Scream]

Progenitor Mimic also seem like a perfect card for the bug version a gsz:able clone that will end up taking over the game. And becomes insane with with recurring nightmare as you can stack up the "it gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, if this creature isn't a token, put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of this creature."".

What if there are no creatures on the battlefield and you top deck this card?

[Rizso]

What if there are no creatures on the battlefield and you top deck this card?

Pretty much the same you do with Zegana.. Waiting. With nothing on the board you arent exaclty pressured to play it anyway.

[Star|Scream]

Pretty much the same you do with Zegana.. Waiting. With nothing on the board you arent exaclty pressured to play it anyway.

What if there's a planeswalker on the other side of the board or against a combo player? What I'm getting at is it does nothing on its' own in a deck that's supposed to have the best top decks in the game.

[Savardpower]

I am playing a GB Version of nic fit, been piloting it for like a year and i won the mdss in quebec city back on december, since then my deck have changed alot but with all the modifications i made, still love the aggressive version... so here are my 3 versions of G/B nic fit that i playtest for like a while... give me your advice and thanx for the help.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PUNCH-ing Nic-fit
Creatures (19):
1x Starved Rusalka
2x Deathrite Shaman
4x Veteran Explorer
3x Strongleroot Geist
2x Scavenging ooze
2x Eternal Witness
1x Wickerbough elder
1x Thrun the last Troll
1x Derranged Hermit
2x Grave titan

Other spells (20):
1x Diabolic Intent
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Pernicious Deeds
4x Green sun's zenith
2x Garruk, primal hunter

Lands (21):
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Verdant catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Bayou
5x Forest
3x Swamp
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
G/B Control Nic-fit
Creatures (13):
1x Deathrite Shaman
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Savenging ooze
2x Eternal Witness
1x Trhun the last troll
1x Kodama Of the north tree
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan

Other Spells (24):
3x Sensei's divining top
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Hymn to tourach
2x Maeltrom pulse
3x Pernicious deeds
3x Green sun's zenith

3x Lilliana of the veil

Land (23):
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath Stronghold
2x Treetop Village
4x Verdant catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Bayou
5x Forest
3x Swamp
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hybrid G/B Nic-Fit
Creatures (14):
2x Deathrite Shaman
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Scavenging ooze
2x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun the last Troll
1x Thragtusk
1x Grave titan
1x Primeval Titan

Other spells (25):
3x Sensei's divining top
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Hymn to tourach
2x Maelstrom pulse
3x Pernicious deeds
4x Green sun's zenith

3x Lilliana of the veil

Lands (21):
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath Stronghold
4x Verdant catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Bayou
5x Forest
3x Swamp

So here are 3 deck that i played between since december... btw sorry i dont know how to put the irl of the cards... first post so!

[zendo]

I am playing a GB Version of nic fit, been piloting it for like a year and i won the mdss in quebec city back on december, since then my deck have changed alot but with all the modifications i made, still love the aggressive version... so here are my 3 versions of G/B nic fit that i playtest for like a while... give me your advice and thanx for the help.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PUNCH-ing Nic-fit
Creatures (19):
1x Starved Rusalka
2x Deathrite Shaman
4x Veteran Explorer
3x Strongleroot Geist
2x Scavenging ooze
2x Eternal Witness
1x Wickerbough elder
1x Thrun the last Troll
1x Derranged Hermit
2x Grave titan

Other spells (20):
1x Diabolic Intent
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Pernicious Deeds
4x Green sun's zenith
2x Garruk, primal hunter

Lands (21):
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Verdant catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Bayou
5x Forest
3x Swamp
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
G/B Control Nic-fit
Creatures (13):
1x Deathrite Shaman
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Savenging ooze
2x Eternal Witness
1x Trhun the last troll
1x Kodama Of the north tree
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan

Other Spells (24):
3x Sensei's divining top
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Hymn to tourach
2x Maeltrom pulse
3x Pernicious deeds
3x Green sun's zenith

3x Lilliana of the veil

Land (23):
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath Stronghold
2x Treetop Village
4x Verdant catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Bayou
5x Forest
3x Swamp
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hybrid G/B Nic-Fit
Creatures (14):
2x Deathrite Shaman
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Scavenging ooze
2x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun the last Troll
1x Thragtusk
1x Grave titan
1x Primeval Titan

Other spells (25):
3x Sensei's divining top
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Hymn to tourach
2x Maelstrom pulse
3x Pernicious deeds
4x Green sun's zenith

3x Lilliana of the veil

Lands (21):
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath Stronghold
4x Verdant catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Bayou
5x Forest
3x Swamp

So here are 3 deck that i played between since december... btw sorry i dont know how to put the irl of the cards... first post so!

Its great to see the strangleroot geist in a Nic Fit list. I ran them for a while and really liked them. I'm not sure how effective they were due to my poor playing, but; I do know that the initial derision they met by opponents on game one, was not there on game two.

[sherko7]

I finished 11th on last tournament May 5, 2013 with a total of 70+ players using my Punishing Nic-Fit. Got lost to RUG mana flood, and OmniTel topped deck a burning wish :(
here's the list that i used.

Punishing Nic-Fit

Creatures : 13

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Primeval Titan

Spells : 24
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

Lands : 23
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Sideboard : 15

3 Thoughtseize
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Slaughter Games
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Red Elemental Blast

here my match ups

2-0 Esper Blade
2-0 Esper Blade
2-0 Merfolk
1-2 RUG
1-2 OmniTel
2-0 Sneak Show
2-0 Hive Mind but definitely a 2-1 game he just gave me a sweep so i can move up to the standing.

Cerberus Open? Congrats on the finish! Sad I couldn't go, there was a sudden family thing :(

I have exactly the same main deck except +1 Eternal Witness -1 Abrupt Decay but I'm about to cut the Witness for another Garruk :D

SB I'd play TS if I had them, but I was planning on playing -3 TS -2 Chains +1 Pyroblast +2 REB +2 Innocent Blood LOL :tongue:

[kabards]

Cerberus Open? Congrats on the finish! Sad I couldn't go, there was a sudden family thing :(

I have exactly the same main deck except +1 Eternal Witness -1 Abrupt Decay but I'm about to cut the Witness for another Garruk :D

SB I'd play TS if I had them, but I was planning on playing -3 TS -2 Chains +1 Pyroblast +2 REB +2 Innocent Blood LOL :tongue:

i'll be changing my SB list this coming june will be using choke and duress :cool:

[Megadeus]

Hey guys. Thinking about getting back into Nic Fit because it really is my favorite deck in the format. What is an updated Scapefit variant?

[Arianrhod]

Hey guys. Thinking about getting back into Nic Fit because it really is my favorite deck in the format. What is an updated Scapefit variant?

My sig is still up-to-date. I haven't found anything to change (aside from periodically shifting the board for meta concerns). Everything has been fantastic.

[Megadeus]

Is chameleon collossus really that good? It seems underwhelming

[Arianrhod]

Is chameleon collossus really that good? It seems underwhelming

Chameleon has been insane -- arguably better of an addition than the Avenger, even. It operates off the same principle as the Avenger -- you turn your manabase advantage into a clock when you don't have access to a Scapeshift for whatever reason. 8 lands (common in the deck) represents a potential 16-power Colossus. I have periodically made it 32. Pro-black is surprisingly relevant -- it can't be Pulsed or Vindicated; nor can Batterskull's Germ Token say anything to Mr. Chameleon. With enough lands, it's easily possible to just race a Batterskull.

There is an argument that could be made for cutting both Chameleon and Avenger for a pair of Garruk Primal Hunters -- if you would want to try that out, I wouldn't have any opposition. Avenger has been very strong just as a late-game Zenith to kill someone, but it's PROBABLY the weakest card in the deck at the moment. That's saying something, lol. If I came up with a 2nd card to card for the 2nd copy of Primal Hunter, I would probably test -1 Avenger -1 mystery card for the pair, but before I tried Chameleon I was on a 1-of Primal Hunter, and he was atrocious as a 1-of. PH needs to be a 2-of. I personally don't believe that Chameleon is the cut for the 2nd Primal, but I mean, I don't have anything else to advocate, so....an ye harm no-one, do what ye will.

[Megadeus]

I'm willing to try it! Yeah avenger seems odd as well. But ive learned to never count out any card in nic fit

[XdeckX]

I've got the same feeling regarding Avenger. Eventhough he's loads of fun he's just mediocre most of the time. He costs a boatload of mana+ needs lands to be relevant. Yes I've killed people with it when I was unable to kill with Valakut with Leyline of Sanctity out. Building 8 7/8 plant tokens is quite hilarious but its just a cornercase where Avenger is good.
I've been toying with that slot. Currenly I'm running Thrun but he really wants access to Kessig Wolf Run. But running Wolf Run makes to manabase less stable. Trample is a really relevant ability

Other dudes I'm going to test:
-Broodmate Dragon
-Ant Queen
-Creakwood Liege
-Deity of Scars
-Essence of the Wild
-Graveshell Scarab
-Wolfir Silverheart

but thats just me browsing through Gatherer.

[Arianrhod]

I've got the same feeling regarding Avenger. Eventhough he's loads of fun he's just mediocre most of the time. He costs a boatload of mana+ needs lands to be relevant. Yes I've killed people with it when I was unable to kill with Valakut with Leyline of Sanctity out. Building 8 7/8 plant tokens is quite hilarious but its just a cornercase where Avenger is good.
I've been toying with that slot. Currenly I'm running Thrun but he really wants access to Kessig Wolf Run. But running Wolf Run makes to manabase less stable. Trample is a really relevant ability

Other dudes I'm going to test:
-Broodmate Dragon
-Ant Queen
-Creakwood Liege
-Deity of Scars
-Essence of the Wild
-Graveshell Scarab
-Wolfir Silverheart

but thats just me browsing through Gatherer.

To be honest, the biggest strike against Avenger of Zendikar is that I've added Chameleon Colossus to the deck. Both slots operate off of the "I have more mana than god, but I can't Scapeshift you. What do?" theory. Avenger CAN get you out of some really nasty board states where your opponent overcommited and you haven't drawn a Deed. That IS a thing that happens. But overall, Chameleon just does Avenger's job better.

Also, I can save you the trouble with a few of those.

-BOORDM8 DARGON: was in the original Scapewish list, however long ago that's been. Was incredibly mediocre ranging to bad. Got cut within a couple months...and I even had a german foil =(

-Ant Queen: takes wayyyyyyyy too much durdling to do its thing. Oftentimes you bring it out and have either 0 open mana to make an Ant, or like enough to make 1-2. Then it gets killed somehow, and you're sadpanda. Queen can totally take over a game if it's left alive, and in that regard it's just one more instance of such a creature in this deck (everything in here can do that). But IMO, creatures in Scape either need to do something immediately (comes into play triggers), or else is a phenomenal beatstick (Chameleon-level).

-Wolfir Silverheart: is actually playable. A friend of mine from Ithaca has been experimenting with Wolfir in a number of Nic Fit shells, and it's been doing good work for him. It falls into the class of "Chameleon-level Beatstick." It needs things around it, though -- it basically mandates that you run Thrun, Kodama/North, and/or Wolf Run. YOu can stick it in your deck as-is and it'll be okay -- but it's better if you build around it. IMO, it's more of a toy for

I haven't tried any of the other options, but looking at them, I'm pretty skeptical. Deity is not Chameleon-level -- in fact, I would sooner just run a 2nd Chameleon Colossus. Essence of the Wild actually seems detrimental, since it will override the come-into-play triggers of our other creatures, which is usually going to be more relevant than having a vanilla 6/6.

Scarab and Liege are actually somewhat interesting, and probably worth a try. Looking at Liege, I feel like Master of the Wild Hunt would be better, but it's probably still worth the test.

-----------

Oh, also, I've done some testing with Ruric Thar, and he was miserable. He'll probably be fine as a Reanimator target for vs combo, or in Elves to NO for, or something -- but he is definitely NOT what Scapewish wants, even remotely.

[TheArchitect]

Id still strongly advocate just using 2 abrupt decays in that slot. RiP miracles and BUG tempo can still give this deck trouble. This deck already has plenty of powerful things to do with its mana. Having a way to un-interactively deny tempo or miracles win strategy is invaluable. I once tried cutting decays for Avengers and another wood elves and lost to tempo decks and miracles when I shouldn't have. KotR (fetching wastes) and Liliana can also be trouble when we are still stumbling out of the starting gates. Decay stops them as well. I'd have 4 abrupt decays if scapewish had more room for stuff.

[Arianrhod]

Took 8th at Jupiter after a pretty sad semis match, with Scapewish. Details to follow on Monday, as usual.

[Nithkar]

Hey guys, I need a little help. I play with a punishing nic fit very similar to HoneyT's list (BTW, thank you for that awesome list), but my question is about sideboard. I don't like carpet of flowers very munch and I've always been thinking on what putting in the place of the three sideboard copys of them. How do you feel about three blood moons? If that's not a good idea, can someone please teach me how to deal with the 12 post matchup? Since a friend of mine made a mono green version of that deck, I haven't win a single match, and I'm starting to feel dumber than the advisable to play with nic fit.

[CRich3]

I am a Rector fit player and I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on the new cards from M14 Primeval Bounty and Ajani's Chosen.

The trouble I am having with Rector fit is that is the early game. If I can't keep things under control early then my late game is useless. I am thinking of taking out Maelstrom Pulse and Vindicate for Abrupt Decays. Still trying to figure out what else I can change out to help out my early game a little more.

[guelahpapyrus]

I am a Rector fit player and I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on the new cards from M14 Primeval Bounty and Ajani's Chosen.

The trouble I am having with Rector fit is that is the early game. If I can't keep things under control early then my late game is useless. I am thinking of taking out Maelstrom Pulse and Vindicate for Abrupt Decays. Still trying to figure out what else I can change out to help out my early game a little more.

Rector is generally the slower member of already slow family.

[Tao]

Hey guys, I need a little help. I play with a punishing nic fit very similar to HoneyT's list (BTW, thank you for that awesome list), but my question is about sideboard. I don't like carpet of flowers very munch and I've always been thinking on what putting in the place of the three sideboard copys of them. How do you feel about three blood moons? If that's not a good idea, can someone please teach me how to deal with the 12 post matchup? Since a friend of mine made a mono green version of that deck, I haven't win a single match, and I'm starting to feel dumber than the advisable to play with nic fit.

12-post will always be a bad matchup for Punishing Nic Fit. Not much you can do. Unless the meta is infested with the deck, I would not recommend spending any SB slots for it.

Carpet of Flowers is an integral part of Punishing Nic Fit's SB plans. You side in 3 Carpets against UWx control decks for 3 Explorers. That way you still have enough enough mana for your cards without giving them the mana boost for Jaces and Entreats. It is also amazing against RUG because it helps you overcome their mana denial, and a solid addition against BUG and Merfolk.

[Arianrhod]

12post is a bad matchup for any Nic Fit. Scapewish can arguably take it down it best of the family, because of the combo -- it just becomes a race to stupid amount of mana. But even then, if they Crop Rot into Glacial in resp. to the triggers, you can just randomly lose. Definitely not a fun time.

-----------

Jupiter report, as promised. I played the Scape list in my sig, with the following modifications:

Main:
-1 Avenger of Zendikar
+1 Scapeshift

Board:
-1 Damnation
-1 Bramblecrush
+1 Reverent Silence
+1 Maelstrom Pulse

As noted previously on this page, Avenger has been merely fine but not amazing, since Chameleon largely does what Avenger does, but better. I grappled for quite a while with what I wanted to add, and I decided that increasing my Derp, Win count was probably correct. The combo can pull you out of situations that you should never win, and drawing multiple Scapeshifts is never really horrible -- vs blue decks, you can just run the first one into whatever counterspell they have and then proceed to kill them, and vs nonblue decks you like having extra copies because of their discard.

The rationale for the sideboard changes was that 1. Enchantress is picking up in popularity a lot right now for some reason, and 2. Leyline-based combo is becoming increasingly prevalent. Reverent Silence is thus a better option than it has been in the past, because you can side in all 3 Slaughter Games, leaving Rev Silence as your go-to Wish target, to nuke their Leylines. With Bramble leaving the board, then, the Damnation -> Pulse switch was obvious, because you still need a wishable "Destroy target thing" card. Neither of these changes ever even came up.

I got to the venue fairly early; around 10 or so, picked up my order on-site (which contained my 4th, nonfoil Scapeshift *tear), and hung out with friends while waiting for the event to start.

Round 1: Rob with Maverick

Wonderful, I get a teamkill round one.

Game one Rob keeps a slightly shaky hand off a mull to 6. I Therapy calling Knight of the Reliquary, and see Green Sun, Mom, Waste, Cradle. He untaps into Mom #2 and Wastes my Bayou. I just play another green source, drop my Explorer, take his Green Sun, and proceed to move to the win phase while he floods out.

Game two he has a highly aggressive start, including a Thalia, but I have ramp dudes into Deed. His life total stops at 17, which means the mountain got to be furious.

Round 2: Timur with Jund

Hey look. More friends that I need to beat.

Game one is a crazy slugfest with each of us being completely in topdeck mode, and proceeding to rip bomb after bomb after bomb. He gets Punishing Grove online, though, he keeps wiping out my board while beating with Goyfs. I eventually rip a land when I needed to rip a Wish or a Shift (hadn't seen a copy of either yet, sadly), and die summarily.

Game two is a much quicker affair where the mountains got angry and Timur couldn't really do anything about it.

Game three was another slugfest which was primarily determined by Huntmaster. I had a double Explorer opener, but no sac outlets for them, so I just kept beating down his turn 2 Lily with one while leaving the other on Moat duty. Eventually Deed happened, followed by a Huntmaster landing while Timur was hellbent and did not have Punishing Grove online. I proceed to control his flips over the next few turns, and generate enough advantage and enough aggro that Timur can't recover even when he draws into double Goyf.

Round 3: different Rob with Burn

This was Rob's first legacy event after having sold his standard cards to break into the format. I had watched his last match as we were sitting next to each other, and as such I knew exactly what to expect. He also seemed like he knew what he was doing in terms of playing Magic, if not legacy.

Game one Rob opened with one of the most horrifying things that burn can do to Nic Fit: the keepable one-lander. He melted my face off in very, very short order.

Game two he had a much slower hand, and I was able to ramp safely into a Thragtusk. My life total never went below 14 this game, and I introduced him to my mountains in short order when he tapped out for a Hellspark and like a Chain Lightning.

Game three I was definitely more worried, as he was both on the play and had commented after I Shifted him that "now would be a really good time to have a Price of Progress in my hand," which meant that he knew that keeping a hand with Price would be a good thing whereas previously he'd pretty much only ever seen basics. He had a really odd triple Hellspark draw, and was aggroing out. I ramped a bit by blocking things with Veteran Explorers, and used a Deed to force him to slow-roll his Hellsparks while also taking out his Vexing Devil. Eventually it came down to the following board state:

He has one card in hand, with two Mountains untapped. He's at 20, I'm at 5. He still has 2 Hellsparks in the graveyard. I have 7 lands in play, with Green Sun and Scapeshift both in my hand, but no discard anywhere. I also have the Collective Voyage that I Wished for the previous turn (as I wasn't drawing the 8th land naturally to kill him with Shift). I resolve Voyage for 1, and he opts not to pay mana, leaving 2 up, which is obviously representing Price. I tank for a while, trying to figure out if he's bluffing or not. I eventually come to the conclusion that if I Zenith for Thragtusk, I'll go to 10. He'll unearth both Hellsparks and swing, which will put me 7 after I block one. Then depending on what is in his hand / what he draws for turn, I could very easily be "just dead." If he has any non-Price burn spell in hand, Scapeshift wins on the spot.

I ended up gambling and went for it. I was relieved when he flashed me the mountain that he was holding his hand -- he then proceeded to look at the top card of his deck, which was definitely a Price. Talk about dodging bullets!

Round 4: Paolo with RUG

I'm feeling very confidant as I sit down, because if I win here, I can double ID into top 8; and it's RUG, so I have a good matchup.

Game one he has double Stifle double Force with Delver, Goose, and Goyf for beatdown. Sick life. Note: this is the reason to play RUG. It has hands where it LITERALLY can't lose.

Game two I proceed to throw fantastically. I resolve a Sakura-Tribe early, and decide that looking at my hand is for chumps while searching. As such, I search up basic Swamp when I had plenty of black duals in my hand, and two double-green cards which I am now unable to cast. Wonderful. I then make another horrible misplay later in the game where I put my Top back wrong, and was unable to REB his flipped Delver as a result. He dropped me to 5 and then casually double Bolted me for the win.

:|

Round 5: Doug McKay with Living Death

The last time I played against this particular Doug deck, I was playing Dreadstill. It seemed like he'd made some improvements to it, as he was tearing the room up -- he had also been X-0 in R3, then lost to Nick Patnode on Elves. Unfortunately for Doug, his deck opted to not show up in either game, really. I don't remember the specifics of the matchup really, other than it was pretty free wins. Game two I employed one of my favorite sideboarding tricks, which is to side out a Therapy to then Wish for, which then cleared the way for my lethal Scapeshift.

Round 6: Patnode with Elves

Patnode opts to play it out, both because he wants the top seed (as Paolo is IDing in) and because he thinks that if he wins, Doug might be able to still sneak in at X-2. I'm sad, but I understand his logic. All I can do is hope that if I lose, it doesn't knock me out (a reasonable assumption since my breakers were already insane, and adding Patnode to them would make them even better).

Game one, he wins the die roll, and I open with a somewhat slow hand that has Burning Wish and mana. I reason that if I make it to turn 3, he loses instantly because Pyroclasm. I don't make it to turn 3, and die with the Pyroclasm in my hand.

Game two I mull to 4 vs his hand of 7. I forget what exactly the hand was -- I think it was like land, land, Therapy, Deed. I lead with the Therapy, calling Glimpse, and hit one. That slows his hand down enough that I draw into an Explorer, which gets me Deed, which wraths him, which gives me enough time to build up to a Scapeshift for the win.

Game three I mull to 6 looking for action, and see another mana + Pyroclasm hand. This one also has a Therapy, though, so I can curve Therapy->Wish->Clasm. He leads with a dork and ships back. I Therapy him, naming Glimpse. I brick, seeing a Crop Rot, 2 Heritage Druids, and a Green Sun. He plays out a topdecked elf and one of the Druids and passes back. I wish for the Clasm, and he proceeds to use mana elves + Rot for Cradle + Green Sun to Hoof me for exactsies after fetching for a Dryad Arbor. Awkward.

I end up in 8th seed going into the top 8, with something like 68% breakers. That's great, but it also means I'm paired up against #1 Seed, which means I get a rematch with Patnode.

Quarters: Patnode with Elves, #2

Game one I open double Therapy, double Explorer, with Deed and the lands to play it all. I wipe out his hand while accelerating like crazy, sweep him when he builds a bit of a board, then land Primeval and slow-roll Valakuts.

Game two my hand is kind of mediocre, but it has some disruption. He quickly goes into double Craterhoof despite me taking away his draw source (a Beck), and I die really quickly.

Game three I keep the following:

Swamp
Thoughtseize
Therapy
Explorer
Deed
Deed
Green Sun

My rationale is that it's a play on the math. I have 13 green sources in deck. Once my opening hand is taken out of consideration, I have approx a 1/4 chance of drawing a green source. Considering that I get to lead with Thoughtseize, and then have a guaranteed Therapy hit on turn 2, I figure that the odds favor me drawing a green source within the first 3 turns (prob somewhere around an 80-85% chance). I also know that mulling is dangerous here, because you need 3 things to actually beat Elves: discard, ramp, and a sweeper; and this hand has all three.

I lead with Thoughtseize, and see triple Natural Order and a couple of dorks. Therapy obviously takes out the Natural Orders -- painfully for Patnode, in his one intervening draw phase he managed to somehow draw the 4th NO. We're both severely crippled at this point, and we limp along playing draw/go/beat with a pair of 1/1s for a few turns. I think on something like turn 6 or 7 he finally gets going, and Zeniths up a Hoof to kill me. I somehow managed to not draw another land that whole time. Top card of my deck was a Taiga when I died.

Sometimes playing the odds backfires =(

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and all -- and equally obviously, with Patnode's keep, literally any Therapy hand would have won me the game if I had lands to cast spells. I probably should have played it a bit safer, but the early disruption is just so critical against Elves that it's hard to say no to both two pieces of discard -and- the potential to just go nuts upon hitting the green. Either way, I still walked with a set of Scrublands and another Jupiter Top 8 to my name (my 4th now), so I can't exactly be displeased.

[Claymore]

Doug McKay with Living Death


So... Any insight on this deck?

[Arianrhod]

So... Any insight on this deck?

I mean, Doug was doing what he does -- he cycling Tuskers and so on and getting ready to do things....but he just kept drawing lands and cantrips, and not anything that was actually doing anything. I was ready for him with Phyrexian Tower out and untapped, so if he tried to Living Death I could make sure that my best creature (Thrag I think at the time) was coming back too. He just never drew anything against me. He still finished like 10th I think at x-2.

[TheArchitect]

Congrats Kevin! Glad to see Scapewish still doing well. Its nice you didn't run into any storm/S&T decks. How was the extra scapewish?

[Arianrhod]

Congrats Kevin! Glad to see Scapewish still doing well. Its nice you didn't run into any storm/S&T decks. How was the extra scapewish?

I think I saw it once on the entire day, to be perfectly honest (and I could tell, since it was the only one that wasn't foil). I'm probably going to continue testing with it for a little while (and would encourage others to do so as well, so I can get more feedback from more players on it) -- but I dunno if it's actually as good in person as it is on paper.

Chameleon was also less good this weekend than he has been in the past, but that's primarily because of the decks I played, I believe. I remember him winning me game 2 vs Timur, but otherwise Saturday wasn't a Chameleon kind of day. I didn't play against Batterskulls, really.

[Zirath]

Chameleon was also less good this weekend than he has been in the past, but that's primarily because of the decks I played, I believe. I remember him winning me game 2 vs Timur, but otherwise Saturday wasn't a Chameleon kind of day. I didn't play against Batterskulls, really.

Honestly I think any creature killed me there. Chameleon just gave me the least time. Why Grove, why do you hide when I need you most.

[Arianrhod]

Honestly I think any creature killed me there. Chameleon just gave me the least time. Why Grove, why do you hide when I need you most.

Granted, but that's a reason to favor Chameleon in the list. On an open board, he usually kills within 2 turns.

[Tao]

Gratz to the finish Arian.


In M14 there are three interesting cards so far. None of them an auto-include but they are worth looking into.

1.
Primeval Bounty 5G
Enchantment
Whenever you cast a creature spell, put a 3/3 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, put three +1/+1 counters on target creature you control.
Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you gain 3 life.

Like someone mentioned this could be a Rector target. It doesn't go nuts like Recycle but it is more consistent. It produces value every turn like a Planeswalker. Fetchlands gain 5 life, late Explorers gain 6 life and make a beast. Pump abilities are usually not that useful in Rector because you are somewhat locking them but three counters is a lot. And it works well with Divining Top. With one Top you gain three counters every turn on top of what you do anyway and with two Tops you have a nice little combo. 6 Mana for +18/+18.


2. Archangel of Thune 3WW
Creature - Angel
Flying, lifelink
Whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.

I don't think this is a thing but it is worth noting that this is an infinite combo with Spike Feeder. It also makes Kitchen Finks come back whenever they die. It also works nice with Primeval Bounty. I could see it maybe in the place of Baneslayer in Rector, not as a 1-1 replacement but something similar. I don't think it is good enough but maybe someone can get something done with it.


3. Shadowborn Demon 3BB
Creature - Demon
Flying
When Shadowborn Demon enters the battlefield, destroy target non-Demon creature.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are fewer than six creatures in your graveyard, sacrifice a creature.
5/6

This card has a lot of potential. 5/6 Flying is just huge, that is important. The sacrifice drawback can be worked around with Tokens or even abused (Rector).

[LeaPlath]

There is another enchantment that is rather intresting.

Into the Wilds 3G
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, look at the top card of your library. If it's a land card, you may put it onto the battlefield.
"Wonders hide where the trees grow thickest."
—Mul Daya proverb

It can be hit on turn 2 if need be and with top it can advantage (set it up so you have land, card you actually want to draw, something else) for a free land every turn that helps you power through your deck a little faster. At the same time, it isn't really that amazing and there are probably better cards for any slots.

[eldpojken]

None of the aformentioned cards seem particularly interesting to me and not worth working for. The effects don't seem powerful enough compared to alternatives, they all seem too slow for too little impact and even though Nic Fit is a deck designed to go over the top of most decks and play a strong lategame, the core of the deck, like any Legacy deck, has to be focused on early game interaction. What you win with when you have established some kind of control or advantage needs to be powerful and/or fast and not just cute. New set, new toys and new ideas lead to innovation but also overly optimistic evaluations in my experience. But by all means, try everything! :)

[Arianrhod]

Gratz to the finish Arian.


In M14 there are three interesting cards so far. None of them an auto-include but they are worth looking into.

1.
Primeval Bounty 5G
Enchantment
Whenever you cast a creature spell, put a 3/3 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, put three +1/+1 counters on target creature you control.
Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you gain 3 life.

Like someone mentioned this could be a Rector target. It doesn't go nuts like Recycle but it is more consistent. It produces value every turn like a Planeswalker. Fetchlands gain 5 life, late Explorers gain 6 life and make a beast. Pump abilities are usually not that useful in Rector because you are somewhat locking them but three counters is a lot. And it works well with Divining Top. With one Top you gain three counters every turn on top of what you do anyway and with two Tops you have a nice little combo. 6 Mana for +18/+18.


2. Archangel of Thune 3WW
Creature - Angel
Flying, lifelink
Whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.

I don't think this is a thing but it is worth noting that this is an infinite combo with Spike Feeder. It also makes Kitchen Finks come back whenever they die. It also works nice with Primeval Bounty. I could see it maybe in the place of Baneslayer in Rector, not as a 1-1 replacement but something similar. I don't think it is good enough but maybe someone can get something done with it.


3. Shadowborn Demon 3BB
Creature - Demon
Flying
When Shadowborn Demon enters the battlefield, destroy target non-Demon creature.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are fewer than six creatures in your graveyard, sacrifice a creature.
5/6

This card has a lot of potential. 5/6 Flying is just huge, that is important. The sacrifice drawback can be worked around with Tokens or even abused (Rector).

Thanks, Tao =)

The demon and angel are both interesting, although I'm not sure of where they fit in (probably not in any developed subarchetype). The enchantment doesn't seem as good as Recycle to me, although you can just slam it ASAP unlike Recycle, which you typically need to set up for. Unfortunately the 3 1/1 counters trigger would resolve before Green Sun Zenith would resolve. Otherwise that would actually be a very strong interaction. It's probably worth testing for those who are still playing Rector, honestly. Not needing to have setup for it might actually swing the balance in its favor over Recycle, and Bounty would be playable vs Jund (indeed, it would probably break that matchup by itself) whereas Recycle is typically the first thing to get boarded out.

[Viridia]

In regards to the new beloved Angel, i think i'd like to try another Junk-like list:

Mainboard (60)

21 Lands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath

16 Creatures
1 Armada Wurm
2 Angel of Thune
2 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Spike Feeder
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer



23 Other spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize


You cut back on Deed a little bit so you can more easily dumb dudes without them dieing to Deed, but up the Discard/Spot removal package to compensate.
Basically, you're trying to stall the game with a bunch of life gaining dudes and removal and try to find the Angel. At that point all you need is Zenith - Spike Feeder to gain infinite life and infinite P/T creatures, which should end the game :D

Ideally i'd try to get another 1-2 lands in, possibly cutting back on StP/Thoughtseizes, but i'm not 100% sure that's needed.

What do you guys think?

[Arianrhod]

At first blush, I'd say it's a good place to start. A few deeper comments:

-) Armada Wurm seems patently unncessary. Sigarda should be plenty sufficient as your Zenithable game-ending bomb.

-) Diabolic Intent is probably fantastic here. Perhaps emphasize it a bit more? Put in a 2nd Intent, and like a Strangeroot @2 and a Dreg Mangler@3?

-) I'd still split 1/1 Pulse/Vindicate, but meh. I'd also want the 3rd Deed. There also probably isn't room for everything I want, as usual.

---------

And here is where I have the realization: Archangel of Thune (+Spike Feeder) and potentially the Shadowborn Demon, too, could potentially reinvigorate the old Pod lists. Both of those cards seem insane in such a list -- AAoT because it gives you a legit 2-card infinite combo that just wins 99% of the time, and Demon because it's a Pod-able removal spell that eats Emrakul (sadly not Grizzle, though), and in Pod, the upkeep wouldn't even be an issue.

I'll try to brew a list when I get a moment -- work's been crazy busy lately (which, incidentally, is why I've been posting less).

[from Cairo]

If building a GWB shell with the +1/+1 counter theme I would heavily consider the top fungus Ghave, Guru of Spores. I ran him in a few small events about a year ago in fairly stock junk list and was very happy with his abilities. He combos phenomenally with Kitchen Finks. Having Spike Feeder and Angel of Thrune should only improve his power level in such a shell.

[Arianrhod]

I don't have a full list that I'm ready to show yet for this nebulous Archangel Pod deck, but I did notice an interesting interaction that I'm trying to figure out if I want or not:

Pod in play, any dork in play, Rector in play / being played for turn.

Pod Rector
Rector trigger resolves, puts Pattern of Rebirth on dork
Pod trigger resolves, tutors up Fallen Angel
Still holding priority, sacrifice dork to Fallen Angel
Pattern of Rebirth trigger resolves
???

??? can be Hulk shenanigans, Emrkaul derpness, or if you have a Feeder or a Finks in play already, you can just tutor up Archangel and win on the spot. Not sure yet.

[Tao]

Ha! The sac-Rector-into-Pod reminded me of something:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20983-Deck-Nic-Fit-%28GBW-Explorer-Zenith-Control%29&p=577099&viewfull=1#post577099

You can search for Corpse Connoisseur and Recurring Nightmare and reanimate any creature of your choice. I found that before Griselbrand was printed, though, so I forgot about it because Iona and other cards simply weren't good enough to justify the investment. Griselbrand on the other hand... it takes only 2 slots in a Pod list (Corpse Connoisseur and Griselbrand because you play Rector and Nightmare anyway).

[TheArchitect]

Phyrexian Tower just got better with the rules change. We could maybe run more than 1/2 now since we really want to see one like every game.

[Arianrhod]

Phyrexian Tower just got better with the rules change. We could maybe run more than 1/2 now since we really want to see one like every game.

Tower didn't get any better at all really, other than random mirror match shenanigans.

@Tao: I'm not sure that the Connoisseur/Nightmare package is actually worth it. Like, I mean I guess it gets you any creature in your deck (assuming no Deathrite or Ooze or anything, obviously). But I'm not sure that grabbing any creature from your deck is necessarily better than Hulking out, for example, or even just grabbing an Emrakul with Pattern and staring at your opponent.

[slikwilly]

Tower didn't get any better at all really, other than random mirror match shenanigans.

There's a slight improvement in that you can do things now like use Tower, then play second Tower nuking the tapped one so you can get a second activation in one turn. I wouldn't plan on ever actually doing it though ;)

After watching PT coverage the other day, I'm wondering why no one has suggested Ætherling in the BUG variants. Seems like a pretty good finisher in those colors and is tough to remove. Also good on defense since you can block and blink. It does want a lot of U though.

RE: Primeval Bounty: it is my dream to get this and Recycle going concurrently. Is there a hexproof manland? For some reason I have that in my head for capitalizing on the counters. Landing Primetime with this on board seems pretty awesome too.

[Arianrhod]

Okay. Here's where I'm at so far for this Pod list.


(1s)
4 Veteran Explorer

(2s)
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast

(3s)
1 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Spike Feeder
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped

(4s)
2 Academy Rector
2 Murderous Redcap

(5s)
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Fallen Angel

(6s)
1 Sun Titan

(7s)
1 Protean Hulk

3 Birthing Pod
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith

2 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Pattern of Rebirth

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp

//SB
3 Carpet of Flowers
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
7 Other Cards


Synergies / combos:

Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder = infinite life / infinite power/toughness creatures
Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder + Murderous Redcap = Sac Redcap to anything, hold priority in response to the Redcap's CiP trigger, gain infinite life / infinite power/toughness, resolve Redcap's trigger for infinite damage.
Melira combo -- naturally or via Hulk = Finks/Melira/sac outlet or Redcap/Melira/sac outlet

Pod chain:

Sac Rector, resolve Rector to get Pattern of Rebirth on any dork, resolve Pod to get Fallen Angel;
Sac Dork to trigger Pattern, getting Hulk;
Sac Hulk to Angel, getting either Redcap + Melira to win on the spot, OR Rector #2 + (anything), Sac Rector 2 to Angel to get Nightmare, proceed to be derpy.

-----------

I'm sure there's a lot of things that I haven't thought of yet // things that could be done better with this list, but it does seem like the potential is there. Voice is kind of questionable at the 2-drop slot, but I figure he serves the same purpose that he does in Modern Melira Pod -- he provides some serious bulk with all the little dorks in the deck, giving you a legit beatdown plan and something else that the opponent needs to worry about while you build towards combo.

[Tao]

For your Pod list:

- Phyrexian Plaguelord and Sadistic Hypnotist both seem better than Fallen Angel. Outside of the combo Plaguelord is oldschool but still solid. Hypnotist has higher variance but can really "get them" if they have no removal. Hypnotist sounds really solid against Combo decks and Control. He can't sac at Instant speed but that makes no big difference mid-combo because you don't have to pass priority. I'd go with the Hypnotist.

- I would not play Voice of Resurgence. The Token won't do much for you. I'd rather go with value cards like Sylvan Ranger and Wall of Blossoms that bring you closer to comboing.

[Arianrhod]

For your Pod list:

- Phyrexian Plaguelord and Sadistic Hypnotist both seem better than Fallen Angel. Outside of the combo Plaguelord is oldschool but still solid. Hypnotist has higher variance but can really "get them" if they have no removal. Hypnotist sounds really solid against Combo decks and Control. He can't sac at Instant speed but that makes no big difference mid-combo because you don't have to pass priority. I'd go with the Hypnotist.

- I would not play Voice of Resurgence. The Token won't do much for you. I'd rather go with value cards like Sylvan Ranger and Wall of Blossoms that bring you closer to comboing.

They can still respond to the activation of the Hypnotist, though, correct? I guess that's largely moot because they could respond to any of the triggers involved in the combo, though.

I considered Plaguelord, but dismissed him because I didn't want to have to rely on having a fall guy in play. Hypnotist likely gets the nod.

I've actually considered running Goyfs in lieu of Voices, just to have that beatdown plan, and to have something that actually plays nicely with Varolz, who is serving the role of Green Sunnable sac-bitch as opposed to being an actual card in the deck. Additionally, this version has less removal (2 Deed and no spot unless you count Redcap) than most other Nic Fits, so being able to wall opposing Goyfs wouldn't be a horrible thought.

[Tao]

This would be my first approach: focus on the Angel combo because it is the best. Should be enough to win the game almost always because besides the life it also pumps the team to infinity. Pod is not good in this version because most creatures give no EtB or leaves play value but Chord seems good.

4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Chord of Calling
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Spike Feeder
4 Archangel of Thune
2 Eternal Witness
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Spellskite
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Peacekeeper
SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 1 Wickerbough Elder
SB: 1 Sin Collector

[Bobmans]

What do you guys think of Skylasher?
It's 'un-jace-able', uncounterable, stops flipped Delver of Secrets, Vendilion Clique and Geist of Saint Traft, can chump block any other flyer and is Zenithable for x=2.

Sounds to cute, or is it valid in the right meta?

[Kich867]

What do you guys think of Skylasher?
It's 'un-jace-able', uncounterable, stops flipped Delver of Secrets, Vendilion Clique and Geist of Saint Traft, can chump block any other flyer and is Zenithable for x=2.

Sounds to cute, or is it valid in the right meta?

That card doesn't belong in Nic Fit.

In other news, I borrowed Siiig's Scapeshift deck for a few games against Deathblade, and I ended up hitting him for 115 damage with Avenger of Zendikar and his 10 homies. That was -pretty- cool. I think I'm going to throw together Junk-Fit for funsies and fill it with a handful of silly combos.

[Bobmans]

That card doesn't belong in Nic Fit.

good argument...

[Greenpoe]

Anyone tried using the whole DD+Stage combo to combine P-Fire-fit and Scapewish into one deck? All you need to do is take Punishing Fire Nic Fit, add in 0-2 Scapeshift, 0-4 Burning Wish, 1 Thespian's Stage and 1 Dark Depths. The main thing is it takes up way less deck space than the Valakut combo (only 2 cards for the combo itself). It's got some vunerabilities, but its worth it since Scapeshift becomes a 1-card combo that you don't need to build around, and it's faster than waiting until you get 7 or 8 lands for the Valakut combo. However, in Scapewish it can really hurt you if you draw one or both Valakuts, with Stage/Depths, its fine - and Stage does not come into play tapped either. I guess you could pay the pay through DD too, since Nic Fit can make a lot of mana. Lots of cool deck building space has been created with this new little combo.

[plogan]

Wouldn't it just be easier to run 1-2 primetimes to find the stage and dark depths or am I missing something?

[Greenpoe]

That works too, but its quicker to Scapeshift it out, and Burning Wishes are good on their own, so you could just run like 3 Burning Wish and zero Scapeshift in the main, + Primetime as a GSZ target and suddenly Punishing Fire Nic Fit can just win on turn 5-6. (Wish on turn 2, Scapeshift on turn 3/4, copy the land a turn later, then swing and win).

[goblinsplayer]

Just wondering, is G/B nic fit any good?

[Kich867]

good argument...
Sorry what other argument needs to be made? Its not a very good creature and does absolutely zero things Nic fit wants to do. Read successful decklists and ask what that card is doing for what list of Nic fit.

It has no powerful etb triggers, its not a super busted 4-6 drop, it dies easily to deed, it dies to everything without providing any benefit.. Great sable stag exists and it equally doesnt belong in this deck archetype.

And straight g/b Nic fit is very good against fair decks and very bad against combo decks. That was always its biggest flaw.

[Qweerios]

Is Intuition ripe again with the legend rule change? Perhaps Dark Depts is a good enough combo finish now?

[Blastoderm]

Is Intuition ripe again with the legend rule change? Perhaps Dark Depts is a good enough combo finish now?

Primeval titan grabs it too!

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Primeval titan grabs it too!

And blue makes Notion Thief possible :D (i just want it to work) and Jace (*cough* Reap Intellect and Plasm Capture *cough*)

Did anyone test with the Thief already?

[Futjee]

And blue makes Notion Thief possible :D (i just want it to work) and Jace (*cough* Reap Intellect and Plasm Capture *cough*)

Did anyone test with the Thief already?

Ive tried out Notion Thief as a 1off in main and 1 in sideboard playing BUG nic fit where the blue is basicly jace/brainstorm in main and sideboard cards. Played 2 tournaments with it and you have no idea how amazing it is vs the Gerry T BUG deck, was pretty good at closing out a game vs storm too since my plan is Lilliana/discard/negates and when they try and recover with top/cantrips you steal their cards nomnom!

In reality it felt a lot like a win more card :(, granted I didnt get to play vs many jaces these days. Mostly I just cast it from my hand as 3/1 that prevented them from casting brainstorm all game, which is good too I guess.

[Arianrhod]

Incoming spam. Casually 1-0 so far after scaping junk twice in brief fashion. G1 he went t2 lily...I had double explorer into pyroclasm into kill you. Lots of bug junk jund esper etc here...we'll see if I can hit it and dodfe the combo. Also saw a punishing fit player....looked like tims list.

[goblinsplayer]

Incoming spam. Casually 1-0 so far after scaping junk twice in brief fashion. G1 he went t2 lily...I had double explorer into pyroclasm into kill you. Lots of bug junk jund esper etc here...we'll see if I can hit it and dodfe the combo. Also saw a punishing fit player....looked like tims list.

Nice job Kevin. Hope to see you on feature match.

[Arianrhod]

2-0 vs green deadguy after keeping double keepable 1-Landers. Am on fire....hopefully more fair decks :)

[Arianrhod]

2-1. Got elfed into a very close match.

[Arianrhod]

Oops double post because phone. -_-

[Arianrhod]

3-1 after esperblade

[Arianrhod]

4-1 beat sneak. Four more rounds to go.

[goblinsplayer]

4-1 beat sneak. Four more rounds to go.

Go 3-0 and top 8! Besides, is the guy that beat you with elves was on feature match round 5. I think....

[Arianrhod]

Fuck I hate the internet here. Sorry about the doubles :(

[Osmin]

Arianrhod, hope to see your play on video.

[Arianrhod]

God granted me affinity. 5-1.

[bruizar]

Hope you get a feature match!

[goblinsplayer]

God granted me affinity. 5-1.

come on, that's pretty much a bye

[jbone2016]

I believe he is playing vs. sneak and show this round.

[Megadeus]

Lol at Playing affinity in the 4-1 bracket..,.

[jbone2016]

To get away from Ari for a moment. i went 4-1 with a Junk Walker Fit yesterday. I was able to get Doubling Season/vraska kill. Twice.

[Megadeus]

To get away from Ari for a moment. i went 4-1 with a Junk Walker Fit yesterday. I was able to get Doubling Season/vraska kill. Twice.

... I dont follow this forum much anymore... but list? Lol

[TheArchitect]

To get away from Ari for a moment. i went 4-1 with a Junk Walker Fit yesterday. I was able to get Doubling Season/vraska kill. Twice.

Living the dream! Nice. What did your list look like?


Also, hoping to some angry mountains on camera soon.

[Arianrhod]

Lost to a very lucky sneak player. 5-2 :(

[jbone2016]

Lost to a very lucky sneak player. 5-2 :(

Bummer. :( Win the last to get some more cash!

[Megadeus]

Lost to a very lucky sneak player. 5-2 :(

Makes me sad... I havent seen a top 8 with a Nic Fit deck in awhile :/

[jbone2016]

Living the dream! Nice. What did your list look like?


Also, hoping to some angry mountains on camera soon.

4x Veteran Explorer
1x Starved Rusalka
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Thragtusk
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Sun Titan

3x Pernicious Deed
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Thoughtseize
1x Doubling Season
1x Elspeth
1x Vraska
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1x Ajani Goldmane

3x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
3x Forest
3x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard
1x Humility
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Batterskull
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Extirpate
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thoughtseize

Beat American Aggro, Lands (twice), and Death and Taxes. Lost to a Shardless BRUG deck. Lost top Countertop Helm in top 8.

[Arianrhod]

Beat dredge. 6-2

[Arianrhod]

Lost to reanimator due to a punt. Still finished 32nd for $100. Very close good games through the day....report will follow tomorrow.

[Star|Scream]

Good job Arianrhod.

Someone was playing rector locally in Pittsburgh on Saturday. A source member?

[HoneyT]

Lost to reanimator due to a punt. Still finished 32nd for $100. Very close good games through the day....report will follow tomorrow.

Grats on the finish! Looking forward to the report, as always!

[Arianrhod]

Good job Arianrhod.

Someone was playing rector locally in Pittsburgh on Saturday. A source member?

His name's Pat -- I think he's posted on here once or twice, but he basically does his own thing. He has a very different philosophy on the deck than I do, and we've had a number of discussions about whether Teeg belongs in the list, for example, and arrived at separate conclusions. From what I hear from my friend (Brian Coval), he has a propensity for making amusingly horrible plays, too -- but he also seems to top 8/top 4 down there fairly consistently, so hey, all's good.

Typing up my report now -- expect it in a few hours. I actually took some amount of notes for once in my life!

[plogan]

Yeah that's me and I do make some terrible plays from time to time, for example, in the finals against Brian on elves I had teeg down and decided to kill him with reccuring nightmare so that I could use my GSZ to find Sigarda and kill him faster. Little did I know he had his own Zenith and Natural Order in hand oops. Everything usually works out though and this week I went 3-0-1. What were you playing Starscream?

It also helps that in the last two weeks there were only two combo decks in the whole room (High Tide and OmniTell) and I havent had to play them.

[Arianrhod]

Alright. So going into the event, I was playing the list in my sig with the following changes:

Main:

-1 Avenger of Zendikar
+1 Scapeshift

Side:

-1 Red Elemental Blast
-1 Damnation
-1 Bramblecrush
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Reverent Silence
+1 Haunting Echoes

I've already explained the rationale behind every change except one: trimming the 3rd REB in favor of the Haunting Echoes. My thought process therein was that I wanted an extra bomb for the Esper/Jund/BUG matchups, which have a tendency of lasting approximately forever. It was never meant to be Wished for -- it was an actual legit sideboard selection. The theory is you just board it in and then between Topping and just naturally drawing/thinning, you should hit it mid-late game by which point your opponent will have done a ton of things, and then you just lower the boom and exile 2/3 of their deck. I made this change upon hearing from friends on-site that there was a metric shitton of Jund in the Legacy Challenge. I was already expecting a meta of Esperblade, Maverick, Deathblade, Jund, and Shardless, with Show and Tell (both Sneak and Omni) and Elves being the leading two combo decks in an otherwise fair room. Echoes seemed like a decent choice going in.

I had to get up at the asscrack of dawn (530 AM) to grab a quick shower before hitting the road at 6. I quickly collected the other members of my car, and we were off. About 3.5 hours later, we arrived at the venue. The Baltimore Convention Center is definitely one of the better venues SCG likes to frequent, so props to them for that.

Round 1: Nate with Junk

My opponent opens with a land and ships back. Over the next few turns, he deploys a turn 2 Liliana courtesy of a Mox Diamond, but then proceeds to flood out while I Wish for a Pyro to kill my 2x Veteran Explorers, and then cast the Scapeshift in my hand for the kill.

Out: 1 Therapy
In: Haunting Echoes

Game two he once again makes a very fast Liliana (t2) and proceeds to start +1'ing her. He tries aggressively mana screwing me, with double Wasteland (one of which was Living Wish'ed for) and a Vindicate. I have an Explorer in play with like one land remaining, but no way to off it, and no hand. My opponent has like 2 or 3 lands and a Liliana, and no hand. I proceed to draw lands off the top, while he plays a Chalice@1 and otherwise also draws lands (and Mox Diamonds) off the top. At some point I draw a Therapy and discard it to Liliana, but as I have no hand, I decide that keeping the Explorer in play in case of a Liliana ult is a better line. A few turns later I draw Primeval Titan, with 4 lands in play. Hey lookit. I flashback my Therapy (which gets countered...whatever), and drop Titan. He's obviously going to -2 his Liliana to get rid of it, but I felt that getting the 2 lands out of my deck was worth trading in my Explorer. So yeah. He nukes my Titan, and then I rip Eternal Witness off the top -- which conveniently gets back a Scapeshift that had been discarded to Lily earlier in game. GG.

Round 2: Slade with Green Deadguy

I lead with Forest->Explorer. He leads with a Thoughtseize, and sees my shaky keep of no further lands, but approximately all of the business (including Thragtusk, Huntmaster, Burning Wish, Therapy, and some other good stuff). He takes the Wish. I naturally rip a black source for my Therapy, and Therapy him seeing Souls, Deathrite, Wate, Karakas, Marsh Flats, and a Jitte. The flashback takes the Jitte. We go back and forth for a while. I eventually just run him out of gas (even with an active Bob that he drew after my Therapy...zzzz....), and he dies to Thragtusk beats.

Out: 1 Therapy
In: Haunting Echoes

Game two I keep another silly hand, which, to be fair, I SHOULD have mulled. If it was on the play, sure, snapkeep. But on the draw, it was a mistake....I just got lucky and drew out of it. My hand was Bayou, Top, Therapy, Deed, Green Sun, (cards). He opens with Inquisition and takes my Top. I rip an Explorer, and opt to go for the Therapy first, as my deck runs more green sources than black sources (in case of Wasteland). I call Dark Confidant, and brick, seeing Elspeth, DRS, Jitte, Batterskull, Verdant, Karakas. He doesn't draw the Wasteland, and I'm in the game. He drops his Deathrite and ships back. I Explorer into flashback Therapy (taking Elspeth), and play my Deed. After some back and forth, I end up Deeding away his board of some Souls, the Deathrite, and the Jitte. He then taps out to play Batterskull on an empty field. I Wish for Pulse and nuke it. Huntmaster, Wolf, Eternal Witness, and a double-pumped Chameleon Colossus kill him in one shot from 23 to dead.

Round 3: Ross Merriam with Elves

This was a fake-feature match, and the only one I got all day because I'm not an SCG pro. As I saw the pairings, my mind was preparing for Elves. I can't even remember why I associated the name Ross Merriam with Elves, but I felt that he'd done very well at an SCG open or some such with the deck. I later researched and saw that he in fact has quite a string of SCG top 8s with Elves, including a 3/4 finish at the Invitational at Atlanta.

Game 1 I open a "race you" hand, with double Explorer, Therapy, Wish, and the lands to cast it all. He leads off with Verdant->Bayou->Deathrite. I here make my first serious misplay of the day: I don't follow my gut. Ignoring my gut which is SCREAMING Elves, I Therapy him calling Liliana of the Veil for some ungodly reason. Even if he was on Jund, my hand wasn't scared of a t2 Liliana because I could just race him. No idea what I was thinking. Anyway, I see a hand of Glimpse, NO, Nettle, Green Sun, Bayou, Misty. He makes some elves and passes back. I flashback the Therapy to take away the Glimpse, and play out Explorer #2. He Natural Orders out Hoof without playing any more elves, and smacks me with just the Hoof for 8. I chump with Explorer #2, and drop to 13. He then ships back. Now, I can't quite kill him yet, as he's at 19. I have 7 lands in play, and need him to either fetch to 18, or to draw another land to actually kill him. As such, I opt to play Thragtusk and pass, which I still feel is correct. I could have Wish->Pyro, but that would have only taken out like 3 elves and left me with a 5/5 and no board presence -- it also uses my only way of actually killing him. He ends up casting Natural Order #2 for Craterhoof #2, and swings for 29. Awkward.

As the game turned out, if I had Wish->Pyro, then I could have survived (he couldn't have Hoof #2'd me that turn). I would have dropped to 8 on the swing, then gone back to 13 post-Tusk and been able to trade with his Hoof. Then it would have just come down to which one of us drew better. I do still think that my line was correct in 75-80% of circumstances, though. I'll also note that if I'd stuck to my gut like I knew I should have, the blind Therapy would have hit Glimpse, and then the flashback would have hit both Natural Orders, which means I would have won the game easily.

I missed my board notes here. I know that I brought in Thoughtseize, Pulse, and the 3 Slaughter Games. Wish in this matchup is purely for Pyroclasm and/or Scapeshift. Period.

Game two is actually just insane, and takes forever. I don't even know how to best sum up the game, so I'll say that it revolved around two thing:

I'd Therapied him, and saw 3 lands and a Hoof. On the flashback I got rid of the Hoof. He blind rips Glimpse, and goes APESHIT. He has multiple Symbiotes, multiple Nettles + Heritage, multiple Visionaries, etc. What he DOESN'T have is Natural Orders (courtesy of Slaughter Games), OR a 2nd Craterhoof, which I knew he boarded out to bring in the Progenitus courtesy of said Slaughter Games. He realizes this about halfway through his combo turn, and proceeds to cast somewhere around 2/3 of his deck before stopping. I had no hand, with 6 lands in play. He had also discarded my Pryoclasm earlier in the game, as I had Wished for it t2 and he had the Thoughtseize.

He finally passes, and I say, "okay, let's see if my topdeck can match yours."

It's a fucking Green Sun's Zenith. Which gets me Eternal Witness, which gets my Pyroclasm, with exact mana, to wrath away literally 2/3 of his deck.

He obviously saves some stuff with Symbiotes, and I'm not in great shape, but fuck man, I'm still alive. We both realize over the next few turns that his out is to Zenith Progenitus (he'd boarded out his Birchlore, because grindy matchup not combo race matchup). I try to keep his board as small as I can with a Huntmaster flipping back and forth while looking for a Deed, a Scapeshift, a Wish, a 2nd Huntmaster, or a Slaughter Games. He draws the Progenitus a few times, and ends up having to Thoughtseize himself once to get it back in his deck. He also Glimpsed off a few times to get enough cards in his hand to move to discard to shuffle it back in. I hit a late Therapy, and call Green Sun, hitting 2. He draws the 3rd off the top and finally gets Progenitus out. Naturally I draw the lethal Slaughter Games that turn, now that it no longer matters. I still have 2 more turns to draw an out (Scapeshift or Wish would do it, and Top would help). Instead, I brick on back-to-back land draws.

Oh, and he ended the game at like 4 life after using Deathrites to eat creatures to barely stay alive while Huntmaster kept shocking him / swinging with Trample.

Absolutely insane match, and a ton of fun. Misplay #1 still sucks, but game 2 was so much fun that it kind of washed out the salt from that wound.

Round 4: Warren with Esperblade

Warren is a friend of mine from the Mythic Games crew, and we both knew going in exactly what was going to happen. I don't even really have much to say about this match....it went exactly as it's supposed to. We were also goofing off like crazy and probably being a huge distraction to the people on either side of us, because fuck it, we were having fun.

Oh, one cool trick that I did in game two here -- he had an active Jace, and an active Jitte with like 4 counters on it equipped to a Snapcaster. I had approximately infinite life after he'd Snap/Swords'd my Colossus and I pumped in response. I had a Top and a Sakura-Tribe in play, with junk on top of my deck. He decides that he wants to swing through next turn, so he pings off my Tribe-Elder. I have a Wish floating on top of my deck that I want to use to Scapeshift for the win, but I don't want the other two cards. I proceed to (holding priority) Activate Spin, Activate Tribe-Elder, Activate Draw off Top. This allows me to draw the Wish, then shuffle and get a land, then look at the top 3. I stack the top 3 (top) Deed -> Primeval -> Forest. As expected, he fateseals me and puts the Deed on the bottom. I then play Primeval, which gets Forced, and then he leaves the Forest on top. That Forest allows me to Scapeshift him for 36 next turn, which was necessary because his Jitte had 5 counters on it and could gain him 10 life. I felt pretty proud of that.

I don't recall my board. I know the REBs, Echoes, and I think two of the Slaughter Games came in. I know I boarded out at least one and probably two Explorers, and one Therapy. Don't recall the other two boards.

Round 5: Hao with Sneak Attack

I kept a spicy hand with Explorer, Huntmaster, and double Therapy -- but no black source. He spends the first few turns playing Volcanic Islands and cantripping, which immediately tells that he's either the old Burning Wish Omni or Sneak. I finally hit a black source and Therapy him, which he allows to resolve. I name Omniscience, which was a bad name because Show and Tell is in both decks. Slight misplay there, but it ended up not mattering. He had Intuition, Show, Emrakul, Force, Island, Pierce x2. I flashbacked the Therapy, which was met with a Force pitching Pierce. I then Therapied again, which resulted in him Intuitioning for Force x3, to then Force pithing Pierce #2. I then played Huntmaster and ate the wolf to make him get rid of his Show and Tell, leaving him with just Island + Emrakul. He doesn't get there in time before a pair of Huntmasters close the deal.

In: Reb x2, Slaughter x3
Out: Thragtusk x1, Huntmaster x1, Deed x3

Game two we DEMOLISH each others' decks. I kept a slightly slower hand that had Top, mana, and double Slaughter Games. He was obviously a more cautious player, and I figured that he would take some time to get himself set up / have protection. I'm just dead if he has Leyline (unless I can find a Wish to Reverent Silence), or if he goes like Tomb Petal Show. However, my read was correct, and sure enough, he spends the first two turns cantripping while I play lands and a Sakura-Tribe Elder. He plays a Sneak Attack on his turn 3, which finally resolves for me whether he's playing bad-Omni or Sneak. I trade in my Tribe Elder, which gets me 4 mana on my turn 3 to resolve Slaughter Games. I take away his Emrakuls, hitting one in his hand and showing me another Sneak, Breach, and Intuition. He Intuits for triple Griselbrand and Sneaks one out, which has me cackling inside because he doesn't realize that by getting triple Griselbrand, he's reducing his outs to 1 remaining Griselbrand + Show and Tell. He then proceeds to Surgical my Slaughter Games, which takes away my next-turn-win. We durdle for a few turns while he digs and I disrupt with Therapy as best I can / assemble pressure I eventually hit a Burning Wish, and plan to Wish for Reanimate to take one of his Griselbrands, but he Brainstorms into a Force of Will for it, and then Surgicals my Wishes, too! The game finally ends with him at 1 life after shuffling a Ponder and blind-drawing. He slumps ever so slightly in his chair, which clues me in that he drew the Griselbrand but can't Show it this turn because he only has 2 mana untapped, and thus doesn't have a Petal. I Therapy the Show (math dictated that Show was the smart name as he had all of his Shows left and only 1 Griselbrand in deck), and then flash it back with the obvious intention of hitting the Griselbrand, which has the desired result of forcing him to Sneak out the demon, which ended the game in my favor as he realized that he didn't have anything left.

Round 6: Andrew with Affinity

My opponent was being very, very cagey with his shuffling and was also absolutely stonefaced, which is a trait that I've noticed out of a lot of combo players, so I was pretty nervous going in. When he led off with Vault of Whispers, Memnite, Springleaf, Signal Pest, it was like a ray of sunshine peaking over the horizon. I had slain the Sneak and Show menace, and god rewarded me with a bye.

My notes are nonexistent, with one word scrawled hastily across the bottom of the page: "Deed." Such was the epitaph on his tombstone.

Round 7: Chas (2nd place finisher) with Sneak Attack

I apparently had too much fun with Affinity guy, and god now decided to instead punish me.

Game one I kept a odd hand of 5 lands, Explorer, Top. The only thing I knew about my opponent was that he had an Echoing Truth in his sideboard, because I'd happened to be talking to Ross at the end of the last round, who'd happened to be standing next to Chas while he was de-siding. Now, in my mind, when I see an Echoing Truth, I think that my opponent is probably playing BUG -- something like my landstill deck, maybe (which often has a Truth in the sideboard to deal with Blood Moons because 1-of Basic Island and 22 nonbasics). In those kind of matchups, Top and mana is your best friend. So when my opponent vomits out a Sneak Attack on turn two with double Lotus Petal (scared of Therapy, I think), I was immediately like OH SHIT.

I quickly changed my Topping, and found a Burning Wish to Slaughter out his Emrakuls. I saw that he had a Show and Tell and a Lotus Petal in his hand. I then Topped next turn into Eternal Witness, to Slaughter his Griselbrands, too.

My boarding was the same here.

Game two he opens the stone nuts, with t0 Leyline of Sanctity + t1 Show and Tell. I just scoop.

Game three he does not have Leyline, which means I actually get to play a game of Magic. I am also actually the saltiest about this game, and remain salty to this moment. I lead with Therapy, calling Show and Tell. I hit, and see the following hand:

Sneak
Breach
Griselbrand
Ponder
Brainstorm
Ancient Tomb

Yes, there is no colored mana there. Yes, I understand why he kept it (he was a HYPER aggressive Sneak player...complete opposite of my earlier opponent). Sneak and Show also doesn't run that much mana, and has 6-7 more colorless lands in the deck. So when he naturally drew a basic Island off the top of his deck, I was pretty irritated (it also turned on his Brainstorm, which made my flashback Therapy poor). Long story short, I eventually made a Huntmaster and went to 22, and applied what pressure I could. I couldn't find a Slaughter Games this time, and my opponent quickly Snuck out Griselbrand. He then proceeded to draw 14 cards, going 3, then cantripped twice, fetched to 2, and Brainstormed, Brainstormed AGAIN, and the Emrakul was the 3rd card down on the last cantrip. Petal->Sneak->22 you for exactsies.

This game still makes me furious. It also killed my top 8 hopes, by putting me to 5-2.

Round 8: Isaac with Dredge

My opponent leads with a Putrid Imp. Lovely. I quickly introduce him to how good Sakura-Tribe Elder is against his deck, poofing two Bridges as he passes priority when moving to mainphase 1. I unfortunately am a victim of irony, as my hand contained double Wish, double Huntmaster -- all of which got Therapied away. My topdecks did not keep in my game vs a pair of Ichorids and some Narcos.

I boarded in the two Slaughter Games, and the Haunting Echoes, because OH MY GOD I WANT TO DO THAT. I rationalize that Echoes is better as a chance to draw/top into in the main as opposed to costing 7.

Game two I have a hard "race you" hand, and kill him on I believe turn 3. Explorer is also hilarious against Dredge, because he's basically a 1-mana Moat.

Game three he mulled to 5, and even then had issues getting his engines going. He finally did get running off of an LED, but it was too little, too late. Chameleon Colossus smacked him down to 7, which led me to get a "style win," as I drew Burning Wish. I could have Wished for Scapeshift and just won. OR, I could go for the style kill, which I mean come on, when you get the chance to style kill, you go for it. So I wished for Reanimate, Reanimated his Angel of Despair, killed his Nacromoeba, and smacked him for 8 with Colossus.

Round 9: Seth with Reanimator

I was 13th on breakers going into this round, and my opponent wanted to play for the glory of getting his name in the top 16 decklists. I was annoyed (as I would have rather ID'd and been guaranteed top 32, whereas a loss [to 6-3] would likely knock me out.

Game one I open one of the most disgusting hands I have ever seen. It was Forest, Tower, Explorer, Explorer, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Wood Elves, Scapeshift. Snap-keep. He leads with basic Island, Lotus Petal. Fucking lovely. I drew a second Scapeshift for my turn. Oh yes, this is happening. I Tower my Explorer, play Wood Elves, play Tribe-Elder, play Explorer. EoT I trade up Tribe-Elder, while he just plays land and sits there. I proceed to eat my Explorer off Tower, and Scapeshift. He hardcasts a Force. I Scapeshift again, and this time, he dies.

Now, the downside is, I have no fucking idea what I'm playing. I've seen basic Swamps, basic Islands, Lotus Petals, a cantrip I think, and a Force of Will. For some reason, my frustrated and addled brain decides that he's probably on OmniTell or Sneak and Show splashing black for Thoughtseize.

Yeah, I don't know either.

No board notes, because fuck my life.

Game two I therapy him calling something horribly wrong, and see Force, Delta, Swamp, Ponder, Study, Exhume. He cantrips and passes back. I attempt Explorer, which he Forces (denying me both mana and the chance to flashback my Therapy). He Entombs, binning Iona, and then Exhumes it on his turn. He calls Green. He also Entombs again for some reason, and bins Griselbrand.

Now, here I make Epic Misplay #2, aka the Great Punt, aka FUCK. I flashback the Therapy and check for Force of Will, because he has 2 unknowns and I don't want to get dicked over with what I'm about to do. I brick, and see Show and Tell + Elesh Norn.

For some godforsaken reason, I decide to yolo and go ahead with my plan: I'm going to Burning Wish -> Reanimate his Griselbrand. He obviously Shows out Elesh (I Show Thragtusk), and then swings with his now substantially-larger-than-my-demon Iona. I chump, obv, and then I quickly die.

If I had been intelligent and actually thought things through, I would have grabbed Innocent Blood, getting rid of the Iona and freeing the rest of my hand. Then NEXT turn I could have used my second Burning Wish to Reanimate Iona (which I would've had the life for after Showing Thrag), naming black and completely shutting down his deck. DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP.

Game three wasn't even a game. He opened the classic t1 Entomb t2 Griselbrand hand, and I summarily died.

Happily, I ended 32nd because my breakers were good, which was still good for $100 and 4 more invitational points, which brings me to 8 total on the year. I have 3 more SCG Opens this month coming up (both halves of Columbus, and the legacy half of Philly). Hopefully I can get a total of 8 points between those 3 events, and manage to qualify for the invitational at Somerset. Depending on how Columbus goes, I might even say screw Jupiter and go down to Philly on Saturday to lock up the Invitational (because even if I only get 2 points per open, which is the minimum, that's 8 points + my current 8 is 16, which you need 15 to qualify). Hopefully I can manage to at least top 32 at Columbus as well, though, which will lock it up without me needing to go to Jupiter.

---------------------------------------------

To conclude:

Punted g1 vs Elves, but that match likely would have been a draw anyway because game 2 took forever. Also, Ross would've been on the play in 3, and if I didn't get a good enough hand, that deck can be horrifically explosive, and I may have lost regardless.

Horrible luck (or godly luck for my opponent) vs Sneak #2. Sneak with Leyline of Sanctity is one of the absolute worst matchups for Scapewish, though, and getting that close in general was good.

Epic punts g2 vs Reanimator, which is the OTHER absolute worst matchup for Scapewish. This match ended up not even mattering, though, and while it would have been nice to get 10th place (where I would've finished on breakers had I won) and get my list published again, I can't be TOOOOOO broken up about it.

As for the deck....

Haunting Echoes was unnecessary. I never saw it once on the day, and even when I did get paired vs the grindy matchups, I think that adding the 3rd maindeck Scapeshift actually serves the function of increasing threat density without actually needing to have an extra bomb in the board.

Speaking of which, the 3rd maindeck Scapeshift is nonfoil, because I couldn't find a foil one when I wanted it a few weeks ago. This has the side effect of me knowing exactly when I draw that slot, which allows me to evaluate mentally whether I'm happier if it's Scapeshift vs when it was Avenger. Let's just say that had that slot been Avenger, I would have had a much, much worse day. That particular Scapeshift racked up a lot of kills.

I never saw a REB on the day. I'm not sure if that's a side effect of going down to 2 (although realistically trimming 1 copy shouldn't have had that much of an effect). I'm also unconvinced whether REB is even necessary anymore. Jace hasn't been an issue for me lately, and I mean yeah it's good to counter Show and Tells and/or blow up Omnisciences in response to Enter the Infinite, or whatever---but I'm not actually sure that REB is even a good choice at the moment. God that feels weird to say.

More thoughts later -- been typing for like 2 hours.

[Star|Scream]

Yeah that's me and I do make some terrible plays from time to time, for example, in the finals against Brian on elves I had teeg down and decided to kill him with reccuring nightmare so that I could use my GSZ to find Sigarda and kill him faster. Little did I know he had his own Zenith and Natural Order in hand oops. Everything usually works out though and this week I went 3-0-1. What were you playing Starscream?

It also helps that in the last two weeks there were only two combo decks in the whole room (High Tide and OmniTell) and I havent had to play them.

I was not at the tournament this week. I'll probably be at the next one. If I play Nic Fit it will be Scapewish.

[Svknoe]

Excellent report, I enjoyed it. I have taken your Rector list to a few local tournaments and intend to try my hand at Scapewish at two more later this month. I wish you good luck getting to the invitational. It would be a pleasure to see Scapewish on the scg coverage again.

[Wake]

Here's my latest build:
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x bayou
4x Cabal Therapy
4x deathrite shaman
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Eladamri's Call
1x fierce empath
1x Forest
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x liliana of the veil
4x living wish
4x pernicious deed
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x qasali pridemage
2x Savannah
2x sun titan
2x Swamp
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x thoughtseize
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Veteran Explorer
1x wasteland
3x Windswept Heath

I'm not sure why anyone would ramp into anything but Sun Titan. It get even better with the new legendary rule because you can chain Lilianas.

[CRich3]

I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but I was curious if faith fetters is worth playing with the new legendary rule change?

[Arianrhod]

I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but I was curious if faith fetters is worth playing with the new legendary rule change?

In a word: no. O-Ring becomes strictly better -- sucks that Ring gets Deeded away frequently and Decay'd, but at least it is also Sun Titan-able.

[plogan]

I was debating cutting fetters for the new mythic enchantment I'll probably test it in a tournament and if it doesn't go well oblivion ring it is!

[TheArchitect]

Congrats Kevin! I think the 3rd scapeshift is a good move. Also, I think I see now why you have such good success with your more bomb heavy list (Compared to mine running MD abrupt decays and more REBs/thoughtseizes in the SB). You play more risky, and are rewarded for it! I always take the safer path. Like your esper game, Idk the exact board state, but I probably would have kept top at all costs if I still had a life/jace counters I could let esper burn through.

[Arianrhod]

Congrats Kevin! I think the 3rd scapeshift is a good move. Also, I think I see now why you have such good success with your more bomb heavy list (Compared to mine running MD abrupt decays and more REBs/thoughtseizes in the SB). You play more risky, and are rewarded for it! I always take the safer path. Like your esper game, Idk the exact board state, but I probably would have kept top at all costs if I still had a life/jace counters I could let esper burn through.

In Scapewish (in particular, although I did this to an extent with Rector as well), I view Top as a "tutor." I use it to look for things that I want, then when I find something, I generally want to keep that thing. Like vs Esper, Burning Wish is very important (or Scapeshift, if you find one of those). Scapeshifting is usually the best way to defeat Esper, because they are uniquely situated to stave off our ground aggression, but have so few counterspells that they are ill-equipped to fight the combo. So if I'm in a situation like there where I find a Wish, but the other 2 cards on top are junk, I'll employ Top Tricks to keep the Wish and then set up my next three -- if I can't find a 2nd bomb to bait counters in 3 fresh cards in this deck, that's just unfortunate.

Note@All:

I'll be attending GP Providence this weekend (actually leaving today to give ourselves a bit of relaxation time). As always if you see me feel free to stop and talk shop. I don't actually know if I'll be Scapeshifting much in the win-a-boxes or not -- Scapewish was a fine meta call in Pittsburgh, but New England has an awful lot of 12post players because of Jeremiah Rudolph living there and having great success. Not sure I feel like putting myself through that, lol.

[ZimAshe]

Curious to know what the community thinks about Vrolz in Nic Fit. I was considering putting him in my Junk list. Not sure what to cut for him though. Was thinking I might cut one of my two Eternal Witness or the Vindicate. Thoughts?

[Bobmans]

I've been pondering about a land oriented GBW list. Taken in count the coming rules changes i've added Deths/Stage combo and KotR, Loam and PrimeTime as Enablers. This also enables the use of Karakas and Bojuka Bog as extra control elements. This is what i came up with.

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vindicate
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Life from the Loam
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sun Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Kitchen Finks

1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

SB
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip


Cards that i also would like to include are:

2 Crop Rotation
1 Recurring Nightmare


Thoughts?

[TheArchitect]

Im sure there are things that could be improved about that exact list, but a GBW nic fit with the dark depths combo seems like it might be really good. It will give that deck the "oops i win" ability that it has been desperately needing.

I'd like to somehow squeeze another knight or 2 in there and at least 1 wasteland. Probably can cut the loam, StpS. And thrag>finks.

[Bobmans]

Im sure there are things that could be improved about that exact list, but a GBW nic fit with the dark depths combo seems like it might be really good. It will give that deck the "oops i win" ability that it has been desperately needing.

I'd like to somehow squeeze another knight or 2 in there and at least 1 wasteland. Probably can cut the loam, StpS. And thrag>finks.

I did not include wasteland cus i feel its slow and mught be to cute. Also with wasteland i think you need Crop Rotation and Loam to have it work as an engine for better effect.

I agree on the Knights.

The finks have synergy with sun titan. Although tusk is better.

If i cut loam and 1 stps i have room for 2 extra knights.

[TheArchitect]

The waste would not be to actively deny mana or to waste people out of the game. It would just be a way to deal with problem lands like karakas, academy ruins, glacial chasm, valakut, etc. Also, I think bog is good enough to maindeck.


4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Vindicate
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Garruk Primal Hunter


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sun Titan

24 Lands:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wasteland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

SB:
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Plague
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Swords to Plowshares


I was thinking something like this perhaps.

[Bobmans]

The waste would not be to actively deny mana or to waste people out of the game. It would just be a way to deal with problem lands like karakas, academy ruins, glacial chasm, valakut, etc. Also, I think bog is good enough to maindeck.


4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Vindicate
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Garruk Primal Hunter


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sun Titan

24 Lands:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wasteland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

SB:
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Plague
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Swords to Plowshares


I was thinking something like this perhaps.

Looks solid. Although 4 lands produce colorless, and one doens't produce anything. Perhaps the one-off utility lands might make opening hands kinda clunky. Volrath's Stronghold seems the weakest link here.

Also the thought of Crop Rotation as a two-off might be worth considering. I see a line of play where you EOT opponent's turn activate KotR for Depths or Stage then respond to Crop another land to the other one. Then activate Stage to drop Marit lage EoT opponent's turn to have it attack in yours.

I would suggest -1 Stronghold and -1 Sakura, Tribe Elder for +2 Crop Rotation.

I like thoughtseize in the 60 to fight combo a bit more/better.

[guelahpapyrus]

@TheArchitect

I would drop Garruk PH for another Sun Titan since you have no way to tutor for either.

[TheArchitect]

Looks solid. Although 4 lands produce colorless, and one doens't produce anything. Perhaps the one-off utility lands might make opening hands kinda clunky. Volrath's Stronghold seems the weakest link here.

Also the thought of Crop Rotation as a two-off might be worth considering. I see a line of play where you EOT opponent's turn activate KotR for Depths or Stage then respond to Crop another land to the other one. Then activate Stage to drop Marit lage EoT opponent's turn to have it attack in yours.

I would suggest -1 Stronghold and -1 Sakura, Tribe Elder for +2 Crop Rotation.

I like thoughtseize in the 60 to fight combo a bit more/better.


I'm not sure I like crop rotation. The deck is solid without it. All of the cards besides dark depths are good in themselves, where crop rotation can be totally dead sometimes. Its great when it fizzles wastelands, but it feels really bad if it gets countered. I'd rather have a 4th knight than a crop rotation I think. Knight is good in himself and doesnt 2-1 you if he gets countered. A instant speed 20/20 with flying for 2 mana and losing 2 lands isnt SO nuts in legacy, that its worth playing generally bad cards to force the combo through faster. Rotation might be better in a blue shell, where you have some countermagic backup so going "all in" a 20/20 can be protected from StpS or whatever.

I think the depths stage combo should just be in the deck for the "oops I win" factor, not a central strategy.

I agree that stronghold is the weakest link. It got a lot worse with DRS and RIP too, the grindy matchups it was once good in. Cutting it for another fetch is not a bad idea. Dont think of depths and waste as lands though. Depths doesnt make mana and waste usually wont be making mana. Thats why theres 22 real lands +those 2.



@TheArchitect

I would drop Garruk PH for another Sun Titan since you have no way to tutor for either.

That seems reasonable. The PH is really there to beat grindy DRS or UW decks sporting RIP often, which often sun titan can get boned from. But I could see an argument for either though.

[Megadeus]

Nah Im a huge fan of Primal Hunter. That dude is SWEET

[Bobmans]

Nah Im a huge fan of Primal Hunter. That dude is SWEET

Garruk, PH bests Jace, TMS.

[sherko7]

Went 1-3 drop at a local 70 something man tourney today with below list:

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Obstinate Baloth
SB: 2 Liliana of the Veil

It was a bit disappointing really.

Round 1: Esper Stoneblade

R1: A 35-40 minute game. I kept a slow hand with 2 Groves, 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Bayou, 1 GSZ and some other stuff. He played T2 SFM into Batterskull. Fast forward a few turns later he had A Batterskull equipped with a Jitte. I had a Thrun that was stalling like a champ. He was up at about 38 life when I tapped out after combat and he Supreme Verdict'd. SDT revealed 2 Pulses which destroyed Jitte and Batterskull. Garruk PH + Kessig Wolf-run swung for 10 a turn to finally end the game. G2 I stalled with Huntmasters against his Lingering Souls tokens with 1 equipped with SOFAF and an active Batterskull. Top deck'd Deed blew him away then time was called. He recovered with SFM into Jitte, and I top deck'd a Cabal Therapy to get it out of his hand. He drew an Academy ruins returning SOFAF but he was short 1 damage and the game ended in a draw, me winning the match 1-0-1.

R2: Sneak Show
I had a 13 card board for this game but I still blew it. G1 was quick, Griselbrand on T3 ended the game fast. G2 I mull'd to 5 to find Cabal Therapy, 2 LotV, Grove of the Burnwillows and SDT. He opened turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity. Needless to say, I lost 0-2.

R3: RiP Helm Miracles
G1 I blew an Explorer through Cabal Therapy which met FoW on T2 and helped him play a T2 JTMS which was immediately answered by Grove + Punishing Fire. I had answers to everything except the last Entreat for 4, I never drew Deed and lost. G2 a misplay caused me the game. I had kept a rather slowhand with Punishing Fire and Slaughter Games. A few turns into the game I drew another Slaughter Games and I had managed to remove his Jaces (on T4) and RiPs. Just when I was about to setup for a big GSZ, he Cliqued and nabbed it. Now here's the misplay. The following turn I decided to Punishing Fire his Clique and didn't notice the Karakas. This enabled him to nab the Deed I was saving up for next turn. He played a CB on the next turn and a 7-angel Entreat. I managed to find a 2nd Deed but it met a Clique upon CB activation and it was GG.

R4: Omnitell
Another terrible, terrible game. I flooded both games and missed all my Therapies due to BS in G2.

Overall, I am quite happy with the tweaks I made to the MD. Removing Broodmate Dragon which was almost always underwhelming and adding in the 3rd Abrupt Decay meant I had more answers at my disposal G1. What I lost though, was a clock. I am perfectly comfortable with this as against fair decks we're usually control early on anyway and I'd much rather play a Thrun or Huntmaster after a Deed. They're both enough of a clock already for me.

I think my SB needs some tweaking though. I'm planning to give up on pure combo hate SB and focus on improving 50-50 matchups (Miracles, Punishing Jund). SnT is the deck's worst matchup IMHO. I've beaten Storm as they don't play Leyline of Sanctity. Any suggestions?

On a side note, kabards is X-0-1 when I left. Wish him the best of luck and hope he gives Punishing Nic Fit another top 8! (First prize in the tourney is a set of JTMS. Not bad for a 500 PHP or about 12-14 USD entrance fee tourney).

[Megadeus]

Thats rough beats. Sucks to hear about the SNT games. It really just is an impossibly difficult MU. I want to say that more targeted discard would be good in the SB, but Leyline seeing so much play makes it rough.

[Megadeus]

Garruk, PH bests Jace, TMS.

Also this. I dont think I lost a game where I resolved Primal hunter. +1 to make a 3/3 is AWESOME.

[plogan]

To anwser the varloz question he is awful I actually lost a game because I was screwed out of black and couldnt cast the varloz with 3 explorers in play. He was always too over costed to effectively used as compared to rusalka as usually the need to use rusalka the same time you find it isn't usually present.

[kabards]

got 16th place out of 81 players using punishing nic-fit again. with 4-2-1 record to losses comes from a bad draws in the last 2 end games. abrupt + pernicious deed + maelstrom pulse doesn't show up.

[Arianrhod]

Only got to do one Legacy win-a-box (out of the 5 that fired the whole fucking weekend) on Sunday -- 4 of them fired on Saturday when I was busy with trades. Pretty miserable. I played Tezz for that one; crushed Deathblade g1, then he nut-drew me g2 and I failed to find any colored source in g3 after Chalicing him out of the game for many turns. Like 8+ turns of no colored land or any of the 6 mana rocks. Pretty lame. I was going to play Scape in the next one since I saw like, 1 Reanimator deck as the only combo in the field....but there never was a next one, with circumstances surrounding the lack of the next one that I find suspicious. I really don't enjoy PES-run GPs.

Sidenote: I'm writing articles for http://www.mythicgameselmira.com/Forum/news.php now. They're just being put up on the main page for the moment -- I'm hoping that eventually I can get the store owner to add in a section just for the articles so that they are possible to link directly to and so forth, but yeah. The first one was about Punishing Maverick, which is probably not of interest to anyone here. What can I say....I like brewing -.-

Only got two really nice pickups for Scapewish on the weekend -- one I was hoping/half expecting to find (a NM German FBB Taiga, which is 1/4 for me), and then something I never ever expected to find: a German foil Thragtusk, which I snap-bought for $25. Still doing a little tuning for Columbus this weekend, but I'm a bit for more worried about tuning my standard deck for that half at the moment, since I'm still pretty happy with where Scape's at for the moment.

[ZimAshe]

so I lent one of my friends my Junk Nic Fit deck to play in a Legacy event. He doesn't play legacy at all (in fact he's pretty new to the game in general and really just plays standard.) So after the event he fell in love with the deck and in the process of putting together Punishing Nic Fit so he can play in more Legacy events. Converted another player. Achievement Unlocked.

[Siiig]

Sup People, Haven't posted in a while.

Played yesterday at Tuesday Night Magic, and went 4-0. From Kich:

Kich867: did you write a report for your ballin 4-0?
Devin: Nah, think I should?
Kich867: fuck yeah

So a report on my epic 4-0, which felt pretty good.

//My Deck\\
Go read Kevin's list. I run Avenger over Chameleon (because I don't have one), 3x Fetches over Stomping Grounds / Bayou, and +1 Phyrexian tower over... I believe the 4th forest.

My SB Has 4 REBs 3 Extirpates and 2 Slaughtergames (now shiny!)

//The Report\\

We actually had a really good turnout considering it's TNM. I wound up being the last person to arrive, and was trying to put together a rushed version of Affinity for my GF. 9 people in attendance, including some of the best people in our area. After passing my girl a copy of GRIXIS affinity, which had Ancient Dens, Carion Feeders, and a Blood Artist, I sat down across from a familiar match...

Round 1 - Rameus on LED Dredge

Rameus is a good dredge player, and I play him almost every week at TNM. We've bounced back and forth, and I've consistently reanimated SOMETHING from him every week.

G1: I keep (I believe) 7, and he goes to 5. I win the roll, open forest -> vet, pass. He goes LED -> crack pass. I kept in not wanting to go to 4, and just hit nothing all game.

G2: This was much more tight. I get a sac elder down to taunt his bridges, pop it to smash one out of his library. Ichorid punches me once I think. The final board place (and "big" play) was an extirpate on his dread returns when he had everything he needed to flayer me in the face. Hunts are good, GG 2-0. No reanimates on grizzlebear =(

Round 2 - Max on The Rock Dead Guy Pox

Max has been building Deadguy for a while, and Rich (our local stoneblade god) decided to loan him cards to make the deck better. Goyf, Waste, Fetches... I was unprepared for this.

G1: These games are harder to remember. I believe we both kept 7, I held onto a deed. Turn 4 or so he's got Goyf + Vampire Night Hawk + Sword of Feast and Famine. Deed does what deed does, wipes the board. I empty my hand to make his discard worthless (and because that's the deck we play) and eventually I find shift.

G2: More of the same. He did a very good job keeping me at 6 or less lands, but eventually "land for turn" beats that plan. To many targeted kills + discard against Nic Fit on his side to really take me down. Goyf never Goyfs me. 2-0

Round 3 - Blayne on Omniclash

When the pairings are announced for me to play Blayne I let my heart drop a little. It's omni-clash, it's not the fastest combo, but it's good and it's faster than shift. I sit down and expect the worst. My only advantage (and for us Cabal Therapy Players, it's a big one) is that I know what he's playing, and I know how it works.

G1: He combos, I lose, Uneventful.

G2: I board in REB, Extripate, and 2x Slaughter Games, He mulls to 6(?), and I keep fetch -> REB/REB/Exripate. Since I'm on the play, I do one of the most bizarre things I've ever done with fetch lands in NicShift, and fetch a Badlands. If Blayne had thought about it a little more, it's dead obvious what I'm holding. He does the cantrip thing for a bit, I REB a show and tell--then extirpate it, and slaughter games his Dream Halls. I believe he scooped at that point.

G3: Game goes similarly, except longer. Eventually he intuitions for dream halls, and I do the thing in reverse. One turn--an enabler and a win-con go buhbye. Turns out he was holding 3x Show and Tell looking for business to slam. 3-0

Blayne is a combo player, and it's actually nerve wracking how well I generally wind up doing against him. It tends to give me hope that Shift has a reasonable match vs the combo decks. Also he reads this forum is a good friend. <3ubro

Round 4: Janene on Maverick

It's a local tournament, everyone here is my friend! Janene is also the best Maverick player I know, and took second place up a Jupiter not to long ago. That being said, I also tend to lose to her despite what's said about the matchup.

G1: Fairly normal game goes back and forth. Therpy some stuff, pernicious deed some dudes, burning wish for damnation to get rid of Aven Mindcensor (iirc), and shift for the game.

G2: ARMAGEDDON, WHY U HATE ME!? Another normal back and forth, deed deals with her entire board short of Thrun, she Armageddons, and rides to victory on the back of the troll of trolls. This loss was actually very frustrating. If at any point I had pulled something to produce G, I had a Vet in hand ready to bring it back with wish for innocent blood. But alas, Scapewish is a brutal mistress.

G3: The nice thing about assuming your going to lose, is you don't get tilted. On the play I had Vet/Therapy and some other nonsense, and I used my brilliant mind to remember what I read in Kevin's primer. So I slammed down my swamp and screamed to the heavens "NOBLE HIERARCH"!!. Not quite the 1 lander and nobles I was hoping for, but I did rip 2 out of her hand. Without the acceleration I just play dudes and run through her. I believe the final board state looked something like... Eternal Witness, Ravager of the Fells, 3x Wolf, Avenger of Zendikar, and 8 plant tokens.

//Closing Thoughts\\

I believe I'm coming up on my 6 months (or maybe have passed?) of playing Scapewish. That was the time period Kevin advised I would need to burn through in order to start playing the deck well. The deck is amazing, and making live plays always feels incredible. This was the first time Slaughtergames has proven its worth to me heavily, and I like it even more for showing me what it can do. I currently run the second one in the board so I can bring both in when I want them, instead of relying on wishing for them. No one in meta attacks me with surgical, so I'm comfortable on Fetch lands. Avenger of Zendikar has done more for me than any other short term addition ever has. He slams SO hard when you need blockers or just to beat someone up. I haven't gotten to try out Chameleon yet, but I have every intention to.

Cheers!

-Quick Edit-

Stage/DarkDepths combo is going in my deck. I see people mentioning it above and just wanted to say I'm 100% trying it in scapeshift.

[Bobmans]

Congrats on your result.

Stage/Depths will be overplayed and there will be bannings for sure...

[Arianrhod]

@Devin: Grats on your finish -- and glad you survived the "trial period," so to speak =)

Few thoughts --

Vs Janene, since you know she runs Geddons, I think that I would adopt the tactic of holding 1x green source in hand, even if it means missing your land drop. Like, unless slamming that green source will enable a Scapeshift kill that turn (that she can't break up with Wasteland), screw it. Having a redundant green source so that you can rebuild seems way more important.

Vs Omniclash, you mis-Slaughtered IMO. If you CAN Slaughter them (fuck Leyline, seriously), -always- name Omniscience. This is because their only out at this point is Show and Tell -> Emrakul. Literally. That's it. They can't Ant you, because they can't recast it over and over again (even with Dream Halls). Likewise, they can't Dream Halls their Emrakul, because "colorless" is not "a color." You can't just pitch a Petal or a land or something to Dream Halls Emrakul.

What are you running for your board, that you're able to run 3x Extirpate? Obviously the 4 REB / 2 Games split is just a tweak, but you had to cut 3 targets for the 3 Extirpates, and I'm very interested in your logic therein. Is it something just for locals because combo/dredge? Or have you not been missing whatever you cut enough that you would run it that way at something like a Jupiter or an SCG?

I also do want to try to incorporate Depths/Stage, but I'll be damned if I have any idea on how the fuck I'm going to find room for them. I suspect that the combo will end up being highly subpar for Scapewish, but I want to at least try it at a local and verify that with my own eyes.

Also, are you going to be at Jupiter this time? I noticed that you guys weren't at the last one.

[Bobmans]

Any Jace/BUG Nic Fit players getting some results?

[Arianrhod]

Almost to columbus for scg....gonna be battling both days this time. As always, feel free to track me down (just look for kevin mckee on the pairings). I'll be updating round by round on sunday, as usual. Running scape on sunday and a blue reanimator brew tomorrow. Progenitor mimic is a hell of a drug.

[Bobmans]

Back in the days of Survival of the Fittest there was Full English Breakfast. Here is a random list for reference:

3 Dark Confidant
1 Eternal Witness
1 Flowstone Hellion
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Shriekmaw
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Volrath's Shapeshifter

4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Stifle
4 Survival of the Fittest

2 Bayou
2 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
4 Island
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Wooded Foothills

Since Varolz, the scar-striped came out i have been toying with the idea of merging StifleNought into a BUG Nic Fit list in order to get a glimpse of what used to be one of the funniest deck i have played.
I'm working on the list below, but i am getting stuck. Do you guys have tips or idea's?


4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Counterbalance

2 Jace, the mind sculptor
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

4 Stifle

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Eternal Witness
1 Varolz, the scar-Striped
1 Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the last Troll

1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
3 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Verdant Catacomb
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest

[TheArchitect]

A similar deck just took 9th at the last SCG open, however, I think if you are trying to cheat fatties into play without paying much mana, the vets are kind of pointless. Besides garruk everything in that deck is 4 or less. Why not just drop therapies and vets for DRS and other discard?

[Bobmans]

That version running goyfs, bobs and drs looks solid. But its just a combination of bug tempo and stiflenought. I am specificly looking to import the deck into a nic fit shell.
But it must be meaningfull.

[guelahpapyrus]

When Varolz was spoiled, I wanted to do the same thing, but after building a couple of decks, testing, philosophizing about them - Nic Fit just doesn't need Varolz. My game plan with Nic Fit is clear their board, land a fatty, keep their board clear until they're dead. Varolz wants to be a midrange combo kill and it doesn't do anything to further our gameplan of wiping their board. Why cast Varolz, who needs a second card to be effective, when you can cast Primeval Titan, Thragtusk, Thrun, or Huntmaster?

Additionally, Varolz seems to be better suited for decks that don't have 5 lands on turn two.

As far as Win More combo kills go, I liked Jarad better. Still though, outside of a few corner cases where I couldn't seal the deal, Jarad wasn't very useful.

[TheArchitect]

That version running goyfs, bobs and drs looks solid. But its just a combination of bug tempo and stiflenought. I am specificly looking to import the deck into a nic fit shell.
But it must be meaningfull.

Whats the point of the nic fit shell though? What is the point of ramping if the game plan is cheat alot of power out for little mana.

[Arianrhod]

Sloughed through all ten rounds of standard today for an entertIning but disappointing 5-5 end record. Prepare for the spam tomorrow as I keep everyone updated :)