[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[jbone2016]

Ohhhh....4 color walker nic fit list on color.

Against...omni-tell. ew.

[Megadeus]

Ohhhh....4 color walker nic fit list on color.

Against...omni-tell. ew.

Was it bad?

[jbone2016]

Was it bad?

Yeah. I think Omni-tell went off turn 2 or 3 game 1. Then had a leyline game 2 and went off on turn 2 or 3 or something.

[MD.Ghost]

Hey Nic Fit Players,

i tested a lot with Tao’s Punishing Build and made a few personal adjustments:

Main:
+1 Deathrite
+1 Pulse
+1 A.Decay
-1 Punishing Fire
-1 Deed
-1 Sensei’s

Latest Change was -1 Punishing and +1 Decay (from Sideboard), mainly because I want one more uncounterable Removal against Tempo Decks (Bladedecks on the rise), to also gain advantage over Equipment’s and other stuff. Fire is a good engine, but you don’t need it in the early turns (with more decay, fetch for Swamp + Forest is solid against Wastelands).
I also thought about -1 Huntmaster and +1 Wickerbought Elder (Miracle with Moat, Sneak Attack, Batterskull), but decided to keep both Huntmaster for now because I really like the creature and double access is sometimes “GG”. My Mainboard Maelstrom Pulse fulfill the same task, sadly not tutorable but also a creature/token swarm removal and only cost 3cc instead of 4-6 Mana for Wickerbought (4+Zenith+Activate).

Side:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Slaughter Games
4 Red Blast
1 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Golgari Charm

Pithing Needle was the latest improvement. It helps against some fast combo decks, Sneak Attack and Walkers. The 2nd Deathrite is a Test slot (Sylvan Ranger), it should also be a ramp option but offers additional help vs. (Grave)Combo. Without Sylvan you lose an option vs Miracle and Death & Taxes (the Basic Land Fraction), but this is also a reason to include needle to tweak these matchups if needed.

Works good so far, next tournaments include the option for some GP Paris Byes so I will try my best.

-----------------------

EDIT:

Some weird Stuff from BNG:

1RG
creature-Centaur and warrior
Trample
Tribute 1
when fanatic of Xenagos comes into play, if the tribute cost wasn't paid, fanatic of Xenagos gets +1/+1 and haste until end of turn
3/3

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150885&d=1389692260

3 Mana for a "4/4" Trample or a 3/3 Trample with Haste and +1 Pump? Not so bad for a uncommon Creature.

[pfiremc13]

Not for nic fit I don't think.

[MD.Ghost]

Not for nic fit I don't think.

Sure it isn't a viable choice, but it is funny that this guy is the first card from BNG i like. Solid design for an uncommon and "hey" a better green dude than any "tribut into 12/12 without evasion" stuff... hopefully we get a new toy with our 2-3 color "splash" nic fit decks.

[Megadeus]

I wish the devotion guys didn't need so much devotion to become active. Maybe golgari God will be playable.

[pfiremc13]

Depends on its other abilities I guess. Those can be good.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Pop Quiz: Which is better given the current meta main-deck: Maelstrom Pulse, Toxic Deluge, or Golgari Charm?

EDIT: Not really a quiz, just wanting to see what other Nic-Fit-Players thought.

[Megadeus]

Pop Quiz: Which is better given the current meta main-deck: Maelstrom Pulse, Toxic Deluge, or Golgari Charm?

EDIT: Not really a quiz, just wanting to see what other Nic-Fit-Players thought.

Probably pulse. Killing walkers seems good. Also hits equipment and such. I don't mind deluge either. I'm running one in my board

[civet five]

Pop Quiz: Which is better given the current meta main-deck: Maelstrom Pulse, Toxic Deluge, or Golgari Charm?

EDIT: Not really a quiz, just wanting to see what other Nic-Fit-Players thought.

I'm running a Golgari Charm in my board, and also want to find room for a Pulse since Jace can give you fits. Toxic Deluge feels redundant with all of the Deeds we run, but it would have saved me against Goblins, so I won't immediately dismiss it.

I think that at the point we're looking at Toxic Deluge, we might as well consider Damnation. I don't think its better per se, but at the point that we're looking for sweepers that aren't Deed, Damnation fits the bill pretty well.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Pop Quiz: Which is better given the current meta main-deck: Maelstrom Pulse, Toxic Deluge, or Golgari Charm?

EDIT: Not really a quiz, just wanting to see what other Nic-Fit-Players thought.

Maelstrom Pulse is the only correct answer.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Maelstrom Pulse is the only correct answer.

Why?

[Megadeus]

I actually am running all 3 in my board. Deluge is probably overkill, I just don't know what else to play. Pulse I board more for jace match ups. Charm is just an all star for those damn true name/death and taxes decks

Also, tested vs various combo decks and the board was pretty solid vs them even without force of will. After board I have 4 Therapy, 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Swan Song, and Glen Elendra. Which Glen Elendra plus the recurring nightmare that I already run is a very solid combo to hardlock opponents out of the game. Not sure if I want negate or not. It can be flexible and not only come in for the combo decks, but I could also board them in vs decks with Walkers.

[Jaredar]

Hey, quick question. All of the newer decklists I've been seeing are either splashing red for a scapeshift/punishing fire plan or blue for brainstorm/strix/other goodies. Are the white splashes for Academy Rector/Sun Titan a thing of the past?

[Megadeus]

Went 2-2. much salty about losing to shardless BUG featuring a billion basic lands. I was able to beat Sneak and Show. Swan Song was awesome at countering stuff. At one point in game 3 he emrakul'd me, but i was able to keep a pod, glen elendra and DRS and won. felt great. I lost to Jund Depths as well. G1 he got PFire going and then Depths me on turn like 5. G2 I won through ginding and hitting two liliana's and a deed with therapy. G3 I lost to him having infinite liliana's. Beat UB Dreadnought. It was slaughter. Then Lost to shardless BUG with many many basics, counterbalance, top, and lots of planeswalkers. I Therapy his hand, but he had BS'd back a Shardless Agent into Hymn and rape my hand. With 2 DRS I cast Recurring Nightmare and he blind flips maelstrom pulse to counter it, then pulses my Shamans. I've never wanted to punch a baby more in my life.

[civet five]

Also, tested vs various combo decks and the board was pretty solid vs them even without force of will. After board I have 4 Therapy, 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Swan Song, and Glen Elendra. Which Glen Elendra plus the recurring nightmare that I already run is a very solid combo to hardlock opponents out of the game. Not sure if I want negate or not. It can be flexible and not only come in for the combo decks, but I could also board them in vs decks with Walkers.

I don't view GEA as a replacement for Fow, because she needs 4+1 mana to come online and discard isn't enough to stop from dying before that happens. I'm considering upping my total to 3 or 4 at the expense of Pilferer, but I don't have enough games with Pilferer to be able to say if that's correct.


Hey, quick question. All of the newer decklists I've been seeing are either splashing red for a scapeshift/punishing fire plan or blue for brainstorm/strix/other goodies. Are the white splashes for Academy Rector/Sun Titan a thing of the past?

I really enjoy the Junk variations but they have horrible game to Combo (if you look on the The Council, there's a Junk Fit that did well recently but has like 14 SB slots to discard and GY hate). If you have confidence that your meta is a lot of fair decks and grindy control types, I think Junk has good game because Rector helps you find Recurring Nightmare of Recylcle quickly, and its pretty darn satisfying to play with Baneslayer Angel in Legacy.

[strom]

I'm currently testing a G/B/W version with heavy emphasis on walkers. Also starring: Academy Rector
So far testing looks promising. The deck is so much fun to play.
Nothing is better than using the ultimate of planeswalkers right away via Doubling Season.
Garruk Primal Hunter is awesome with DS in play. So is Sorin and Vraska.
The planeswalkers are pretty strong on their own, of course.
Vraksa has a vuilt in Pulse and wincon, Sorin and the Garruks create tokens to protect themselfs and Sorin's ultimate is pretty nuts, too.
Lingering Souls (and Deranged Hermit) create a nice wall to protect the walkers, especially vs flipped Delvers.

SB contains some enchantment-silverbullets plus a good amount of combohate.
I wish I had more space MD to fit in a Kitchen Finks, Thrun or Sigarda but dont wanna cut anything right know.
I hope I can bring this to our next local tourney.


4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Deranged Hermit
2 Academy Rector

1 Oblivion Ring
1 Doubling Season
3 Pernicious Deed

2 Vraska the Unseen
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Liliana of the Veil

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Lingering Souls
3 Green Sun's Zenith

21 Lands

SB:
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Humility

[Megadeus]

I don't view GEA as a replacement for Fow, because she needs 4+1 mana to come online and discard isn't enough to stop from dying before that happens. I'm considering upping my total to 3 or 4 at the expense of Pilferer, but I don't have enough games with Pilferer to be able to say if that's correct.



I really enjoy the Junk variations but they have horrible game to Combo (if you look on the The Council, there's a Junk Fit that did well recently but has like 14 SB slots to discard and GY hate). If you have confidence that your meta is a lot of fair decks and grindy control types, I think Junk has good game because Rector helps you find Recurring Nightmare of Recylcle quickly, and its pretty darn satisfying to play with Baneslayer Angel in Legacy.

Of course GEA isn't a replacement for FOW. She is the top end that if she resolves it becomes very very difficult for them to win. Swan Song is my cheap counter spell, and Therapy plus TS help me get to the later game. Also I p[layed a Singleton Negate last night out of the board, and despite me only getting to use it once, on a blood moon vs SNS, there were times that it was in my hand and it would've been good had I had blue mana. May actually bump Negate up to a 2 of and probably drop like Aetherling.

[litenkatt]

I'm currently testing a G/B/W version with heavy emphasis on walkers. Also starring: Academy Rector
So far testing looks promising. The deck is so much fun to play.
Nothing is better than using the ultimate of planeswalkers right away via Doubling Season.
Garruk Primal Hunter is awesome with DS in play. So is Sorin and Vraska.
The planeswalkers are pretty strong on their own, of course.
Vraksa has a vuilt in Pulse and wincon, Sorin and the Garruks create tokens to protect themselfs and Sorin's ultimate is pretty nuts, too.
Lingering Souls (and Deranged Hermit) create a nice wall to protect the walkers, especially vs flipped Delvers.

SB contains some enchantment-silverbullets plus a good amount of combohate.
I wish I had more space MD to fit in a Kitchen Finks, Thrun or Sigarda but dont wanna cut anything right know.
I hope I can bring this to our next local tourney.


4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Deranged Hermit
2 Academy Rector

1 Oblivion Ring
1 Doubling Season
3 Pernicious Deed

2 Vraska the Unseen
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Liliana of the Veil

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Lingering Souls
3 Green Sun's Zenith

21 Lands

SB:
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Humility


I used to play a similar list and, humility should be in main and why no Elspeth's? They fit much better in the deck than vraska IMO

[pfiremc13]

You need a token maker to win while humility is on the field. That might be hard in his deck.

Also gbw has sufficient tools with which to beat combo without devoting an entire sideboard to it.

[Ralf]

You need a token maker to win while humility is on the field. That might be hard in his deck.

Also gbw has sufficient tools with which to beat combo without devoting an entire sideboard to it.

Bitter blossom should join the party !

[Megadeus]

Play bitter blossom, play humility, cut deed?

Also DTB again. Great job guys!

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Play bitter blossom, play humility, cut deed?

Also DTB again. Great job guys!

Hell yeah!

Also, as far as a token generator goes, just go with Elspeth 1.0. After all, we are a control deck running humility, so generating tokens + not losing life + sending that 1/1 over at your opponent with +3/+3 and Flying is good stuff.

[pfiremc13]

That's probably the right way to go actually. Because fuck sneak and show.

[snorlaxcom]

when did this get moved to dtb? out of the loop for a while...

[Megadeus]

when did this get moved to dtb? out of the loop for a while...

At some point this morning I believe.

What do you guys think is best in BUG Pod for dealing with walkers? My friend just said I should play walkers myself. I understand over loading the board, but sometimes they just have too much removal. You think just pulse is fine?

[pfiremc13]

I'd say pulse, yeah.

[DireLemming]

Or TNN.

[from Cairo]

What do you guys think is best in BUG Pod for dealing with walkers? My friend just said I should play walkers myself. I understand over loading the board, but sometimes they just have too much removal. You think just pulse is fine?

Murderous Redcap can go after Lili or Jace depending on loyalty. I think it's Persist makes it best Pod candidate. In more traditional GSZ based lists I like Ifh-Biff Efreet.

[Megadeus]

I always thought about the efreet when I played straight GB but never got around to testing him. Walkers have basically been the only things that I have been losing to really the past couple of weeks. Time to play more pulse I suppose

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Thragtusk is the first thing that comes to mind for a Planeswalker killer, especially Jace 2.0 since his bounce actually allows you replay the Swag again.

Of course, if they have blockers, best bet is either Maelstrom Pulse or Creeping Tar Pit if running blue splash.

[tons of fun]

ok every one i have a bigg tourny coming up this sunday i am stuck on what i should play

i have a bug artifacts build that slaver lock people as well as other tricks.

i also have a jund version that has a infinate aggervated assult combo hat goes infinate

amd then i also have my dead eye build that i top eighted last time

[EpicLevelCommoner]

ok every one i have a bigg tourny coming up this sunday i am stuck on what i should play

i have a bug artifacts build that slaver lock people as well as other tricks.

i also have a jund version that has a infinate aggervated assult combo hat goes infinate

amd then i also have my dead eye build that i top eighted last time

May I ask for lists for each of these and your expected meta?

[tons of fun]

May I ask for lists for each of these and your expected meta?


the artifact build
4 veteran explorer
2 baleful strix
2 coiling oricale
1 eternal witness
1 treasure mage
1 glissa, the traitor
1 grand architect
1 phyrexian metamorph
1 solemn simulacrum
1 batterskull
1 thragtusk
2 wurmcoil engine
1 myr battlesphere
2 green sun zenith
2 tezzert the agent of bolas
2 jace the mind sculpter
4 cabal therapy
3 pernicous deeds
1 mindslaver
2 senseis divinning top
2 trading post
1 prototype portal
3 misty rainforest
3 verdant catacombs
3 bayou
3 tropical island
1 undergroundsea
3 forest
3 island
2 swamp
1 phyrexian tower
1 acadmy ruins


the aggravated assault build

4 veterans
2 sakura tribe elder
1 sproutin thrinax
1 eternal witness
1 feirce empath
1 shattergang bros
1 thrun last troll
2 huntmasters of the fells
1 thragtusk
1 thundermaw dragon
1 primevil titan
1 broodmate dragon

4 cabal therapy
3 pernicous deeds
3 aggervated assualt
2 natures will
2 bear umbra
3 greensun zenith
2 sensei's divining top
1 profane command
1 mealstrom pulse
3 bayou \
2 taiaga
1 badlands
3 wooded foothills
3 verdant catacombs
3 mountains
3 forests
2 swamps
1 kessik wolf run
1 pheryxian tower
1 volwrath stronghold

and my third lists the deadeye list i original posted and the sideboards are in work depend on which build i decide to go on

[EpicLevelCommoner]

the artifact build
4 veteran explorer
2 baleful strix
2 coiling oricale
1 eternal witness
1 treasure mage
1 glissa, the traitor
1 grand architect
1 phyrexian metamorph
1 solemn simulacrum
1 batterskull
1 thragtusk
2 wurmcoil engine
1 myr battlesphere
2 green sun zenith
2 tezzert the agent of bolas
2 jace the mind sculpter
4 cabal therapy
3 pernicous deeds
1 mindslaver
2 senseis divinning top
2 trading post
1 prototype portal
3 misty rainforest
3 verdant catacombs
3 bayou
3 tropical island
1 undergroundsea
3 forest
3 island
2 swamp
1 phyrexian tower
1 acadmy ruins


the aggravated assault build

4 veterans
2 sakura tribe elder
1 sproutin thrinax
1 eternal witness
1 feirce empath
1 shattergang bros
1 thrun last troll
2 huntmasters of the fells
1 thragtusk
1 thundermaw dragon
1 primevil titan
1 broodmate dragon

4 cabal therapy
3 pernicous deeds
3 aggervated assualt
2 natures will
2 bear umbra
3 greensun zenith
2 sensei's divining top
1 profane command
1 mealstrom pulse
3 bayou \
2 taiaga
1 badlands
3 wooded foothills
3 verdant catacombs
3 mountains
3 forests
2 swamps
1 kessik wolf run
1 pheryxian tower
1 volwrath stronghold

and my third lists the deadeye list i original posted and the sideboards are in work depend on which build i decide to go on

Best bet would be Deadeye in my opinion.

[tons of fun]

Best bet would be Deadeye in my opinion.

yeah i agree but i also wanna wanna take these as well for a spin
the artifact has been test in tournies and i have done good top four locally

[Qweerios]

The simplest Nic Fit decks are always the best. You should look for what makes Nic Fit successful again and extrapolate on that. My guess is that Deed and Lily are great in a TNN meta because of the high presence of midrange decks, Blade Control decks, and decks with 0 basic lands. Cards like Innocent Blood, which are highly synergistic with Explorer and very effective against these strategies should be reconsidered rather than reviving the Nic Fit trend of playing unplayable cards "just cuz were good again". Also, Punishing Fire.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

The simplest Nic Fit decks are always the best. You should look for what makes Nic Fit successful again and extrapolate on that. My guess is that Deed and Lily are great in a TNN meta because of the high presence of midrange decks, Blade Control decks, and decks with 0 basic lands. Cards like Innocent Blood, which are highly synergistic with Explorer and very effective against these strategies should be reconsidered rather than reviving the Nic Fit trend of playing unplayable cards "just cuz were good again". Also, Punishing Fire.

As much as I would love to see Veteran Explorer go lethal with Assault and Nature's Will, I have to agree with Qweerios here: there comes a point where you have to be honest with yourself and say, "This does not work well enough to win."

That's not to say innovation is unwanted: in fact because of Nic Fit's core, it actually allows a ton more innovation than most other decks. Just need to use both empirical and theoretical discretion to make the right decision.

[tons of fun]

As much as I would love to see Veteran Explorer go lethal with Assault and Nature's Will, I have to agree with Qweerios here: there comes a point where you have to be honest with yourself and say, "This does not work well enough to win."

That's not to say innovation is unwanted: in fact because of Nic Fit's core, it actually allows a ton more innovation than most other decks. Just need to use both empirical and theoretical discretion to make the right decision.

yes i agree but i tried it and its does alot the aggervated was for a lil extra the natures will work really well

[trollking21]

That's not to say innovation is unwanted: in fact because of Nic Fit's core, it actually allows a ton more innovation than most other decks. Just need to use both empirical and theoretical discretion to make the right decision.

What is the core of nic-fit. And what build are you on currently. I've lurked the threads for a while but never got around to building it.

[strom]

I used to play a similar list and, humility should be in main and why no Elspeth's? They fit much better in the deck than vraska IMO

Regarding my GBW Walker-List on Page 326 I have to disagree here. The deck is already pretty light on removal. In fact my list contains 3 Deed. That's it. Being the control deck we need to have more ways to interact with opposing permanents. Another point: The green Walkers are better at generating tokens, than Elspeth. Sorin gets the job done, too. Overall Vraska's second ability is exactly what my list wants.
I also have to disagree with humility maindeck. In fact I started my list with a MD-humility but it soon got cut. Humility shines in some matchups but is pretty useless against ohters. Overall, we are still NicFit and therefore Explorer and GSZ are set. Because of that, I don't see why we shouldn't use GSZ for full value and play the best green creatures in a sort-of toolobx. Humility shuts off that engine. That's why I think it belongs to the sb.

[Tao]

What is the core of nic-fit. And what build are you on currently. I've lurked the threads for a while but never got around to building it.

The only actual core cards of Nic Fit that every current version plays are 4 Veteran Explorer, 4 Cabal Therapy, a few Pernicious Deeds and Eternal Witness and Thragtusk. For most versions you can also add GSZ to the core but BUG Pod doesn't play it.
The other cards can vary but they are functionally similar to work in the specific deck. The core (Explorer, Therapy, Deed, Witness, Thragtusk) combined with a variety of value cards, synergies, value engines, removal and other disruption. Scapewish is a bit different in that regard because of the Combo Finish and the higher mana count.

[RainbowPenguin]

Hi,

I'm mainly a blue deck player, but I've been thinking about picking up GBW Nic Fit as a side project - In a perfect world, maybe I'd have preferred BUG or the Scapeshift/Valakut version, but I don't really have the duals for those colours, so personally I'd stick to GBW, probably. Since Eternal Witness and Sun Titan are already very playable in Nic Fit, I thought about adding Knight of the reliquary and the Depths/Stage combo, since it seemed like it would slot in pretty easily, kinda like the Natural Order/Progenitus package in the old NO RUG/Bant lists, and be easily salvageable to boot.
Here's a possible decklist:

23 Lands
1 dark depts
1 thespian's stage
2 wasteland
1 karakas
2 forest
2 swamp
1 plains
3 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
8 fetch

22 creatures
4 GSZ
4 veteran explorer
1 deathrite shaman
1 sylvan safekeeper
1 quirion ranger
1 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage
2 eternal witness
3 knight of the reliquary
1 fierce empath
1 thrun/sigarda/extra fierce empath target
1 sun titan

15 other spells
4 cabal therapy
3 aprupt decay
2 vindicate
2 pernicious deed
2 liliana
2 top

sideboard (tentative)
1 teeg
2 canonist
3 duress
1 liliana
2 zealous persecution
2 extirpate
2 nihil spellbomb
1 mindbreak trap
1 pithing needle

The Wastelands are there mainly to protect the combo from other people's wastelands, although potentially manascrewing an opponent with Wasteland/Vindicate seems sweet, too. Sylvan Safekeeper is there to protect the combo, and Quirion Ranger (could also be Scryb Ranger, don't think it matters too much in this deck) can shave a turn off it. The rest is pretty standard stuff, I think.

Do you have experience with Dark Depths in Nic Fit? What are your feelings about it? Did I overlook anything obvious (apart from Tilling Treefolk :tongue: )?

[Tao]

One reason why BUG Pod, Scapewish and Punishing Fire are successful is because they don't offer any good targets for Abrupt Decay or Swords to Plowshares.
That is why KotR is not good in Nic Fit. Against Combo it doesn't help much and against all other decks it will just get killed. That is why all decks that place in tournaments play stuff like Huntmaster or Baleful Strix, Eternal Witness, Thragtusk and Titans. You play a control deck without any card draw so your value has to come from creatures.

If you want to play GBW a rock-style control deck is imo the best approach. Look into things like Lingering Souls or Academy Rector and win grindy games. Maybe run a few Thoughtseizes or Inquisitions maindeck, maybe a 3rd Liliana, probably a 3rd Deed. I would always recommend a 3rd Top.

There is a combo finish with Archangel of Thune / Spike Feeder but I would not recommend it.

Also at least one Sigarda is mandatory in any white list, she is by far the best reason to play with white cards.

[RainbowPenguin]

Thanks for your answer. Stubborn enough that I might try it anyways, but I can definitely see your point.

Regards.

[Megadeus]

I think if I were theoretically trying to play dark depths, stage combo, that I would be in BUG for like intuition or gifts with like loam and a waste and stuff.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Hi,

I'm mainly a blue deck player, but I've been thinking about picking up GBW Nic Fit as a side project - In a perfect world, maybe I'd have preferred BUG or the Scapeshift/Valakut version, but I don't really have the duals for those colours, so personally I'd stick to GBW, probably. Since Eternal Witness and Sun Titan are already very playable in Nic Fit, I thought about adding Knight of the reliquary and the Depths/Stage combo, since it seemed like it would slot in pretty easily, kinda like the Natural Order/Progenitus package in the old NO RUG/Bant lists, and be easily salvageable to boot.
Here's a possible decklist:

23 Lands
1 dark depts
1 thespian's stage
2 wasteland
1 karakas
2 forest
2 swamp
1 plains
3 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
8 fetch

22 creatures
4 GSZ
4 veteran explorer
1 deathrite shaman
1 sylvan safekeeper
1 quirion ranger
1 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage
2 eternal witness
3 knight of the reliquary
1 fierce empath
1 thrun/sigarda/extra fierce empath target
1 sun titan

15 other spells
4 cabal therapy
3 aprupt decay
2 vindicate
2 pernicious deed
2 liliana
2 top

sideboard (tentative)
1 teeg
2 canonist
3 duress
1 liliana
2 zealous persecution
2 extirpate
2 nihil spellbomb
1 mindbreak trap
1 pithing needle

The Wastelands are there mainly to protect the combo from other people's wastelands, although potentially manascrewing an opponent with Wasteland/Vindicate seems sweet, too. Sylvan Safekeeper is there to protect the combo, and Quirion Ranger (could also be Scryb Ranger, don't think it matters too much in this deck) can shave a turn off it. The rest is pretty standard stuff, I think.

Do you have experience with Dark Depths in Nic Fit? What are your feelings about it? Did I overlook anything obvious (apart from Tilling Treefolk :tongue: )?

I would actually recommend a Junk/Bant Maverick shell as opposed to Junk/BUG Nic Fit for Stage Depths. Actually played against a list with Knights, Living Wishes, and Loams and lost due to the lack of Needles in the board.

[Razorwynd]

One reason why BUG Pod….

I am interested in reading some discussions of BUG pod, are those contained within this thread or should I look elsewhere. I keep seeing it mentioned in this Nic Fit thread.

[litenkatt]

Regarding my GBW Walker-List on Page 326 I have to disagree here. The deck is already pretty light on removal. In fact my list contains 3 Deed. That's it. Being the control deck we need to have more ways to interact with opposing permanents. Another point: The green Walkers are better at generating tokens, than Elspeth. Sorin gets the job done, too. Overall Vraska's second ability is exactly what my list wants.
I also have to disagree with humility maindeck. In fact I started my list with a MD-humility but it soon got cut. Humility shines in some matchups but is pretty useless against ohters. Overall, we are still NicFit and therefore Explorer and GSZ are set. Because of that, I don't see why we shouldn't use GSZ for full value and play the best green creatures in a sort-of toolobx. Humility shuts off that engine. That's why I think it belongs to the sb.

I still feel like Humility is worth it and here is why: It does shut off some GSZ creatures but in my build I feel like it's not that big of a deal. When humility hits the board, I've hopefully already "used" some of my GSZ creatures. I rely much more on my planeswalkers, elspeth, garruk, sorin and also lingering souls. Humility barley affects that while it makes your opponents creature miserable. I will gladly have humility in play against any tribe deck such as merfolk, goblin, elves. It's also decent against Maverick and D&t (if you manage to destroy Jitte which is important obv.) Any emrakul, griselbrand deck etc also have problems with this card. Maybe it's even decent against delver decks, but probably too slow. We make much more creatures than all these decks with PWs and Lingering souls. And for what it's worth, it does serve as a removal kind of..

These reasons are enough for me to have the card in the maindeck. I actually don't know any decks where it's completley dead (except for storm ofc). Also, my deck might be more humility-friendly than yours.

As for removal, I'm playing 3 deed 2 pulse 2 StP. Not completley sold on this yet, as I have to play test more

How come you're not running Nether Void in your SB? Budget reasons?

[Megadeus]

I am interested in reading some discussions of BUG pod, are those contained within this thread or should I look elsewhere. I keep seeing it mentioned in this Nic Fit thread.

It has been discussed a lot the last ten pages or so. I post a short "report" of my weekly event with it. Gtf finished 10th recently at an open as well. If you have any questions, feel free to ask

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I am interested in reading some discussions of BUG pod, are those contained within this thread or should I look elsewhere. I keep seeing it mentioned in this Nic Fit thread.

Yeah ... Nic Fit has several variations including Explorer Pod (typically BUG or Junk) and ScapeWish.

Good thing BUG Pod is more recent, so you won't have to dig too much back.

[Zinch]

I've just missed top 8 in the last round of a large event (145 players) with punishing Nic Fit. I finished 5-1-2.

I'll post my list and a report when I have time, but thank you Tao: my list was inspired a lot in your list (I don't have time to playtest, so I have to netlist... :frown:)

[EpicLevelCommoner]

What is the core of nic-fit. And what build are you on currently. I've lurked the threads for a while but never got around to building it.

Sorry for the late reply, but Tao pretty much answered your first question perfectly.

The build I'm on right now is pretty much classic BG Nic Fit with a "splash" of U for Jace 2.0 and Brainstorm. This probably weakens manabase, but I hate having extra Tops once I've got one out, especially during a crucial top deck moment.

My current list can be found in my sig (though give me a few minutes to update it).

[MD.Ghost]

Played a GP-Trial yesterday and got the byes with Punishing Fit.

Matchups Swiss:

1:2 vs Team America
2:0 vs Oops all Spells
1:2 vs Elves
2:0 vs Elves
2:1 vs Burn

Luckily enough Top 8, but my opponents always got the start-advantage in the next games.

Quarterfinals:
2:1 vs Team America (same Player of round 1, who was first after swiss)

Semifinals:
2:1 vs Sneak Show

Finals:
2:0 vs UWR Delver

So totally not the best matches at all, but sometimes you also need a right amount of luck to go ahead. Also nice that another Nic Fit player landed top 4 with his BUG-Pod List.

Some Notes:
Maindeck Deathrite Shaman saved my ass against Oops all Spells, because g1 he can't get all his combo pieces fast enough i found time to disrupt him. It was also an advantage against burn, which is a horrible matchup if you can't get some extra lifepoints. I also played a 2nd copy in my sideboard.

Surgical Extraction was also good enough, won me Game 2 against Oops all Spells because he starts with a turn 1 Combo Win. Extraction helped also against Sneak Show Game 2, because i opened with turn 1 discard (Sneak Attack) into Surgical Extraction.

Slaughter Games was a beast against Sneak Show. Sure it is some of the worst matchups and sometimes you can't do anything against the degenerate two cards combo, but if you survive a couple of turns with 1 mana disruption (discard, red blast, extraction, needle etc.) Slaughter Games is a huge "GG"Spell. I boarded in 13 cards against Sneak Show and got the right amount of disruption and grind it out till Slaughter Games or Extraction finished it up. Thanks to my teammate JPA who always give me some training rounds against this Matchup, if i need some hard slaps from the unfair demon and his eldrazi buddy.

Elves are also hard to beat, because they can go of turn 2 and have different ways to beat you. Like most combo matchups, it is incredible good to win the die roll. You need first turn disruption (Discard) and the next turns enough stuff to kill all the little dudes. It helped that í also played elves last year with a decent score, but as a fair deck it is hard if you can't use the different angels of attack (wasteland, removal, counter). Some Removal with 1 Mana (Innocent Blood) would help a lot, if you can't rip the theirs hand apart.

Special thanks to Tao who inspired me with his Primer to play Punishing Fit the last months.

[Megadeus]

I think innocent blood would be a fine card for us to be playing right now

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I only played against Elves! once before my hiatus, but it wasn't exactly a hard matchup from what I could tell (at least two out of three games: can't remember which games I won, just the match).

First, the trick against any mono-color or duo-color deck is to not pull the Cabal Explorer trigger too soon: they more than likely have enough basics so that our signature ramp engine will just not work as well. Therapy first, then flash it back when it's in your favor

Second, decks that tend to swarm the field with a ton of creatures are best handled with sweepers: no shit, right? Well, I'm saying this because I was running 2 Damnation and I believe 4 Deed when I played Elves!, and it really helped survivability against this particular list.

Third, the only positive thing about slow combo for Nic Fit is that they trade consistency for resilience: in other words, their nut hands require a ton of luck to get on turn 1 or 2. Take this opportunity to disrupt them as much as possible with Therapies and removal.

[Imperial]

While I may question the decision, congrats on making DTB guys! :smile:

[Zinch]

As I said yesterday, I lost the "win-and-in" round with punishing nic fit in a 145 players event.

My list was this:

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorers
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Kalonian Hydra (I realy hate Thragtusk in this deck)
1 Primeval Titan

3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fires
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Phyrexian Tower (I expected more Deathrite shamans, making the Stronghold useless, but I'll make this change back)
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Bayou (I am missing one bayou at the moment, so I played a Badlands. It didn't mattered in this tourney)
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain

Sideboard:

1 Abrupt Decay
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Huntmaster of the Fells (I couldn't find a Garruk Relentless)
2 Duress (I don't have thoughtseizes)
2 Golgari Charm
2 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Pyroblast

A little report (I don't have notes, the order of the matches can be a very missremembered):

Round 1 against UWr Landstill (1-0; 1-0-0)

In the first round I played a non competitive player with a version of landstills with red for lightning bolts and Baneslayer Angels as finishers.

The first game started with me playing a top and him playing a Standstill on his second turn without a Mishra's Factory in his hand. I spinned the top over some turns finding a lot of lands. When I had like 7 or 8 lands and he had 7 cards in hand, I broke the Standstill at the end of his turn with a Punishing Fire to make him discard. He then countered some of my bombs but was still unable to find a thread, so I started pinging him with a Fire. At some point he played a Baneslayer Angel and attacked once before I could crack a Pernishious Deed to kill it. Finaly, I found Thrun and he wasn't prepared for him (he played supreme verdicts).

This game took like 35 minutes. The second one started like the first one, but this time he found a factory and I was stucked at 4 lands, so I break the Standstill with a Slaughter Game for Baneslayer Angel (was the only thread I saw the firs game). He had also some Jaces but didn't found them. He beated me for some turns with a pair of factories and I had to waste a pernicious for only one of them (I was low on lives and he played lightning bolts) he then beated me with the other one up to 2 lives when I found a witness to replay the P. Deed. Being at 2 I was a lightning bolt away of losing this game and drawing the match, but he didn't found one and just before the turns were called I found the second witness to replay the Slaughter Games on Lightning Bolts. We finished the turns without him finding the way to kill me.

Round 2 against Punishing Jund (2-0; 2-0-0)

I don't remember a lot of these games but I beated him 2-0 without any major concern (one of the games I finished at 7 lifes more or less and the other with a lot more) he only assembled the grove-punishing combo on one of the games but it was too late. I won one game with Thrun and one with a Primeval

Round 3 against Rw Goblins (2-0; 3-0-0)

I won the die to go first and begun with a Inquisition to see a slow hand with Vial, Matron, Warchief, Chieftain and Siege Gang. I took the vial and played a Top and a therapy on Warchief. He played the chieftain and beated me for 2. I flashbacked the Therapy for his Siege Gang and he played the matron, searching a Piledriver, played it and attacked with the 3 goblins. I then proceed to play the deed I was holding in my hand and clear the table (he had one or no cards in hand).

In the second game he kept a bad hand with some hate, but it ended being totaly insuficient and I was not under any risk.

Round 4 against Elves (1-2; 3-0-1)

He opened with a zenith for a dryad arbor. I hit blindly the Wyrewood Symbiote with a therapy in my first turn and saw 2 Nettle Sentinels, 1 Quirion Ranger and lands. He played the quirion and a nettle. I flashbacked the therapy with a veteran explorer for the second nettle leaving him with only a land in his hand. He used a fetchland to search for the second dryad and started beating me for 5. I had a Top and was looking for a Pernicious or a Punishing Fire using any shuffle effect I could find without any luck. I stoped his army cold with some creatures but I couldn't find any creature killer. He played a Heritage Druid and we played draw and go for some turns without me finding any answer. He finaly top decked a zenith with the mana to play it for a Craterhoof (untapping his nettle) to kill me. I should have won this game, but this is how thing go sometimes...

The second game he kept a slow hand and played a first turn pithing needle on top. I found a Punishing a Grove and a Liliana and killed every creature he played. Eventualy he fetched for a dryad and played a Natural Order. He searched though his library and seemed upset. Then looked his sideboard and finaly put a Progenitus in play frustrated (he forgot to side in the Worldspine Wurm). I made him sacrifice the progenitus with Liliana and he conceded.

The third game he kept a slow hand again. He actualy didn't played anything on the 3 first turns, but I could find any discard spell. I was killing everything he played, but wasn't prepared for the wurm and I lost.

Round 5 against Patriot (2-1; 4-0-1)

These were some unfair games. Is a very favourable match up (even more if your opponent doesn't have any answer for the Punishing fires in his sideboard).

He won the second game because I was mana screwed and he draw like 3 or 4 wastelands while he attaked me with a delver and a Stoneforge (I therapied the Batterskull) and finaly a True Name Nemesis.

Rond 6 against Team America (1-1; 4-1-1)

He won the first game that took us like 25 minutes after drawing a Tombstalker that I had no answer for. We had been draw and going for like 10 or so turns in a row without finding any thread.

I won the second one and had like 7 or 8 minutes for the last one that we were unable to finish.


Round 7 against Patriot (2-1; 5-1-1)

I don't remember a lot, but it was an unfair match again.


Round 8 against NO-Bant (1-2; 5-1-2)

I won the first game without seeing a Natural Order, so I was unprepared for it in the second game (I didn't boarded in the Slaughter Games).

The third game I had a stellar start with a blind therapy on brainstorm hitting one. He kept a one land hand with a Stoneforge, a True name nemesis a Shaman and a Thoughtseize. He played the Deathrite Shaman and I proced to play a zenith for 1, saccing the veteran explorer to hit the True Name Nemesis and with the 2 lands play a Punishing Fire on the Shaman. He was unable to find a second land and I played a Top and a second therapy on Stoneforge mystic. I saw that he draw a Rest in Peace and a another True Name Nemesis. He draw a land and played the Rip exiling the Therapy. Then I made the mistake that costed me the top 8: I used the top in my main phase I saw a Slaughter Games, a Therapy and a Green Sun's Zenith. I put the S. Games on top and the Green Sun's Zenith second. I draw with the top and played the Slaughter Games on the TNN for fear of him drawing a third one. In the next turn I played the zenith for the Thrun and he obviously fetched a Dryad with a fetch and played a Natural Order for the Progenitus that I couldn't answer in time.

If I had draw the therapy with the top and played it on TNN and then the S. Games on Natural Order I would have won that game...


I think the deck is perfect for the current metagame (it was a sea of blue tempo decks even throught I only played 3) but I never boarded in the 2 Surgical Extractions, the Sakura-Tribe Elder and the Huntmaster of the Fells, so I am thinking in swapping the 2 Surgicals and the Huntmaster for some more answers against Natural Orders/Elves decks. I am thinking in 3 options:

- Gravedigger's Cage: It is a house against NO-Bant and the like and against Dredge (there were some in the hall) but against Elves we need the Deeds to clean the board...

- Damnation: It solves NO and is very good against Elves, but it won't be of any help if they search for the Worldspine Wurm...

- Play more Slaughter Games (I am playing 2 right now): It answer NO, but Elves can win without it and it costs 4 mana...

Wich is the better option?

[Svknoe]

Nice result! I haven't tried the Punishing Fire version in a tournament yet, so I can't quite tell what the best option is.

Since my last report of winning a tournament with BUG Pod I have taken it to two more tournaments. First a 48 person tournament where I got 3rd, going undefeated in the swiss. Then I won a 42 person tournament with it today, losing one match to Jund. It seems favorable, though. I played against UWR Delver, BR Reanimator ,Miracles, something I can't quite recall, Jund and BUG Delver again in the swiss. In the top 8 I played against Miracles again, and the Affinity. Finally I opted to split top2 with a Merfolk player. I may write a report. I think that the deck is good. Most match ups seem somewhat favorable. Miracles is probably bad, though.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Nice result! I haven't tried the Punishing Fire version in a tournament yet, so I can't quite tell what the best option is.

Since my last report of winning a tournament with BUG Pod I have taken it to two more tournaments. First a 48 person tournament where I got 3rd, going undefeated in the swiss. Then I won a 42 person tournament with it today, losing one match to Jund. It seems favorable, though. I played against UWR Delver, BR Reanimator ,Miracles, something I can't quite recall, Jund and BUG Delver again in the swiss. In the top 8 I played against Miracles again, and the Affinity. Finally I opted to split top2 with a Merfolk player. I may write a report. I think that the deck is good. Most match ups seem somewhat favorable. Miracles is probably bad, though.

Miracles is probably the only match up where we should play the beatdown right away. I hate to say it, but their control elements are bit stronger against us than ours are against them.

A few things for Miracles:

1. Do not pull the Cabal+Explorer trigger too soon. Not only do they run enough basics to mitigate the usual one-sided ramp, but it also thins their deck out, giving them a better chance to rip Entreat the Angels from a top deck, especially with Brainstorm or Sensei's Divining Top.

2. Since we are the beatdown, take every opportunity you can to stick a creature and swing. If you land a Deed, only crack it for 0 (Entreat tokens) IF you would have the creature advantage afterwards. Otherwise, crack it when it's in your best interest.

I don't think Miracles is favorable by any means, just that it's more even than unfavorable. Definitely forces us to play a different game than usual.

[Megadeus]

Haven't played vs Miracle with Pod yet. It doesnt seem like an overly exciting MU to me. With straight GB last year it was definitely a skill testing and probably negative MU though. That also was before Decay and DRS though as well.

[GtF]

Nice result! I haven't tried the Punishing Fire version in a tournament yet, so I can't quite tell what the best option is.

Since my last report of winning a tournament with BUG Pod I have taken it to two more tournaments. First a 48 person tournament where I got 3rd, going undefeated in the swiss. Then I won a 42 person tournament with it today, losing one match to Jund. It seems favorable, though. I played against UWR Delver, BR Reanimator ,Miracles, something I can't quite recall, Jund and BUG Delver again in the swiss. In the top 8 I played against Miracles again, and the Affinity. Finally I opted to split top2 with a Merfolk player. I may write a report. I think that the deck is good. Most match ups seem somewhat favorable. Miracles is probably bad, though.

Svknoe, congrats. It would be great if you'd write a report, I'd love to get some more thoughts on the deck. Are you still running the riptide pilferers in the board? I tested vs. miracles a bit and I agree it's not a great matchup. The last and best thing I came up with was boarding into pilferers (taking out some strixs and explorers) to pressure them early. Then at least they're working off the top of their library sooner. Like others have mentioned, cracking explorer early isn't the greatest play against them anyway. I also added the sideboarded Aetherling mostly for that matchup, though it hasn't come up yet in an actual tournament. It's possible that finding room for a needle would be better, though needle is awkward to bring in because you want to destroy counterbalance with your deeds and then that would blow up the needle as well. However, an answer to Top and Jace would be fantastic so it might be worth it (also nice to try to stem the bleeding against dark depths decks)

[Megadeus]

Svknoe, congrats. It would be great if you'd write a report, I'd love to get some more thoughts on the deck. Are you still running the riptide pilferers in the board? I tested vs. miracles a bit and I agree it's not a great matchup. The last and best thing I came up with was boarding into pilferers (taking out some strixs and explorers) to pressure them early. Then at least they're working off the top of their library sooner. Like others have mentioned, cracking explorer early isn't the greatest play against them anyway. I also added the sideboarded Aetherling mostly for that matchup, though it hasn't come up yet in an actual tournament. It's possible that finding room for a needle would be better, though needle is awkward to bring in because you want to destroy counterbalance with your deeds and then that would blow up the needle as well. However, an answer to Top and Jace would be fantastic so it might be worth it (also nice to try to stem the bleeding against dark depths decks)

I like the idea of needle. I have struggled with depths and jace. Needle is good at stopping both. Alternatively, randomly stone raining an opponent when they don't fetch seems fine as well

[KntrellCL]

I have a lot of experience playing against UWr Miracles. First of all, veteran + therapy does back fire inmediatly, and Thrun is godlike in this MU.... my list also plays Pod and a lot of creatures on CMC 3-4-5 to get rid off counterbalance (harmonic sliver, wickerbough elder and acidic slime). Slime works to destroy karakas also. Carpet of flowers is a MVP on sb (-4 explorer for 3 carpets).

My list is having a lot of troubles with tempo. So i decided to take out all the cards that are bad against those decks.

My original list had 3 drs (went up to 4), 2 decays and 3 deeds (change for 4 decays 0 deeds) and strangleroot geist as a cmc2 with undying... it is hard to cast with the GG cost on turn 2 and it is only a 2/1 haste that I never want... haste is just an useless hability on this deck... i took out -2 strangleroot and put a full package of SFM + 2 equipments main.

why? because I can... SFM is a roundhouse by its own... its easier to pay 1W than GG on turn 2, trading a veteran for SFM with pod is just nuts... activating SFM for Bskull and then trade it for a cmc 3 is also good. i got tired of playing subotimal cards on curve 2... BUG has baleful strix, I had wall of blossoms? elvish visionary? no thxs.

My final list seems something like this.



Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer = Nic fit Staple, 4 of.
4 Deathrite Shaman = Helps for Pod turn 2 and is just godlike.
4 Stoneforge Mystic = best cmc2 on my colors
1 Gaddock Teeg = hatebear for combo, GSZable
1 Scavenging Ooze = Hatebear against loam decks and counter opposing DRS
1 Kitchen Finks = just value with pod... fine attacker/chumpblocker
1 Eternal Witness = gut shots/value
1 Harmonic Sliver = good against sfm decks
1 Orzhov Pontiff = MVP against elves and tnn decks
1 Thrun, the Last Thrun = MVP against miracles and good equipped with bskull
1 Wickerbough Elder = CMC4 for trade with pod
1 Thragtusk = CMC5 good trade with pod for titan, leaves a body
1 Shriekmaw = take out emrakul with show n tell, goyfs, etc cant be spell pierced on turn 2 against delver
1 Grave Titan = good beater... could be sun titan?

Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith = good engine, helps to play pod turn 2 on the draw (dryad)
3 Birthing Pod = another engine, cant be decayed
4 Cabal Therapy = protection, synergy with veteran and thragtusk/finks
4 Abrupt Decay = best removal ever... i dont like to ask
1 Batterskull = since I lack of deeds main, these one can help in goblins MU and tempo
1 Umezawa's Jitte = same as bskull, but also helps against elves



Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

//SB [15]
4 Natural Order
1 Ruric
1 Progenitus
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Carpet of Flowers

[plogan]

So what's everyone's opinion on the Spirit of The Labyrinth as a sideboard card in rector? I like that I can tutor for it and its cheaper in cmc than nethervoid and happens to be a beat stick. Its probably not all around as useful as nethervoid, but it seems like it stops omnitell and elves somewhat.

[litenkatt]

Nice result! I haven't tried the Punishing Fire version in a tournament yet, so I can't quite tell what the best option is.

Since my last report of winning a tournament with BUG Pod I have taken it to two more tournaments. First a 48 person tournament where I got 3rd, going undefeated in the swiss. Then I won a 42 person tournament with it today, losing one match to Jund. It seems favorable, though. I played against UWR Delver, BR Reanimator ,Miracles, something I can't quite recall, Jund and BUG Delver again in the swiss. In the top 8 I played against Miracles again, and the Affinity. Finally I opted to split top2 with a Merfolk player. I may write a report. I think that the deck is good. Most match ups seem somewhat favorable. Miracles is probably bad, though.

Post your current list, please? (A)

[Svknoe]

Svknoe, congrats. It would be great if you'd write a report, I'd love to get some more thoughts on the deck. Are you still running the riptide pilferers in the board? I tested vs. miracles a bit and I agree it's not a great matchup. The last and best thing I came up with was boarding into pilferers (taking out some strixs and explorers) to pressure them early. Then at least they're working off the top of their library sooner. Like others have mentioned, cracking explorer early isn't the greatest play against them anyway. I also added the sideboarded Aetherling mostly for that matchup, though it hasn't come up yet in an actual tournament. It's possible that finding room for a needle would be better, though needle is awkward to bring in because you want to destroy counterbalance with your deeds and then that would blow up the needle as well. However, an answer to Top and Jace would be fantastic so it might be worth it (also nice to try to stem the bleeding against dark depths decks)

I will probably do that later today, then. Yes, I am still running the Riptide Pilferers. I still think that they are excellent, at least versus storm based and show and tell combo. I used them against TES in the last tournament, and I think they did fine there. The Miracles match up seems winnable, but it is not favorable. I ended up boarding in 7 cards (I'll try to list them in the report), taking out 7 of Explorer and Therapy. It seems fine to keep one therapy on the play to name top. I have hardly played the match up, so I don't know if my following line of reason is correct. Miracles play very well off the top, so I don't want to devote resources to making them do that. It is of course preferable to them having a full grip, but often enough they will end up playing of the top anyways. It is difficult to play around Terminus. We have to manage our board properly to be able to win. Based on my matches I think that 4 power on the board is pushing over extension (unless it is a single creature, of course). 3 seemed enough to kill a Jace or threaten their life total. The exact number will rely on our precise build and theirs. When we have achieved this slight pressure, they will eventually have to deal with it. In the mean time we can devote our resources to finding and resolving a Pod or a Deed. Because of Detention Sphere I would never try to have more than one of each of these in play simultaneously. I generally also try to not cast an important spell if it is possible that they will counter it. It seemed good to beat for 3 a turn while building up a critical mass of must counter spells in hand, to unleash them into a counter wall in a short time frame. If they are playing of the top, it seems hard to counter 2-4 important spells in a row. I think that our most important spells are Pod, Deed and Glen Elendra Archmage. I think that Envelop is great in the match up, as their two most important spells are Terminus and Entreat.

Regarding Strix and Pilferer. Because such a low amount of power is needed to pressure the miracles opponent, Strix is a fine secondary threat. When I have established a board presence, I expect them to terminus it away if it is important to them. I want to always be able to rebuild my board second main phase. Since it cantrips, Strix is a fine card. Good would be pushing it. I would guess that Pilferer is the better turn two threat, and Strix is better late game. Blocking an angel might be relevant, but not the most important thing to do. Note that I have not actually tried Pilferer against them yet.

I think that explorer is horrible against them in general. Cracking it is detrimental in almost all circumstances. I mostly view it as a 1/1 for 1. Due to death rite and Pod costing 3 mana, I think that BUG Pod is much less reliant on Explorer than other Nic Fit variants. It is still very good in most match ups, but not versus Miracles. My point is that we are fine siding it out. I resolved Ætherling once against them, and died to Entreat with Force back up two turns after that. It seems good, though. I think that it is even better against Shardless, which is still common in my area. Needle does seem a little awkward. My game plan includes blowing deed multiple times per game, making needle unreliable. For another plan it might be good. As for winning against Top and Jace, I did not try to answer them directly, but rather win through them. It seems very doable. We can when versus an online Jace over many turns. I am not saying that we shouldn't get rid of those cards if we can do that cheaply, though.

EDIT:

My current list:

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Shriekmaw
1 Eternal Witness
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Grave Titan
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk

2 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Brainstorm
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Birthing Pod

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Watery Grave
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island

SIDEBOARD
3 Riptide Pilferer
1 Thoughtseize
2 Envelop
4 Force of Will
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Aetherling

[RainbowPenguin]

Regarding the Miracles matchup, as seen from the other side: Planeswalkers and/or Chains of Mephistopheles are tough. Even something like Garruk Wildspeaker can be problematic. By all means run your own jaces if you can. Teeg can be nasty, too*. Basically, any threat that cannot be stopped by a single sweeper is good against that deck. On the other hand, the difference between a nimble mongoose and a grave titan isn't as big when playing Miracles as it it for most other decks.
Specifics will vary a bit though. Some run 3 force, 0-1 counterspells and 0-1 snapcaster, relying on stuff like counterbalance, flusterstorm and red elemental blast to control the stack, others have a greater number of generic counters. Some run 3 clique, 2 venser, others none of those. So how hard it will be to resolve a planeswalker or a Deed, and how hard it will be to keep it around, can vary a lot.
If you see enlightened tutor, they likely play the helm/rip-combo, but probably very few, if any, creatures.
I don't think many Miracles players have more than one Detention Sphere in their 75, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Sweepers take care of multiples of creatures, and against Show and Tell, being vulnerable to red elemental blast is bad. Even if you want the effect, you would often rather register an oblivion ring.
Exchanging Explorer for Carpet seems like a good idea.
Try to not be reliant on the graveyard if you can.
Against an unknown opponent playing something rock-ish, many Miracles players would default to taking out counters (sometimes all of them) in favour of more board control, so take advantage of that if you can.


*These are several different approaches to combat Miracles. No, of course I'm not telling you to load up on teegs, jaces AND chains. Pick your weapons.

[pfiremc13]

So what's everyone's opinion on the Spirit of The Labyrinth as a sideboard card in rector? I like that I can tutor for it and its cheaper in cmc than nethervoid and happens to be a beat stick. Its probably not all around as useful as nethervoid, but it seems like it stops omnitell and elves somewhat.

It also happens to be great against jace...

If anything, it would replace faith's fetters most likely. But faith's fetters is much better against other fair decks. Depends on meta I guess. I'll do some testing with it.

[plogan]

Ah yeah forgot about Jace. I think it probably warrants a slot somewhere in the 75/76.

[Qweerios]

What do you guys think of Nessian Wilds Ravager as a replacement for the Titans? GSZ-able 6/6 for 6 that either fights a creature when it comes into play, or gets 6 +1+1 counters.

[Svknoe]

I think that it seems worse than the titans. Letting you opponent choose is a great draw back. Even if you could have it always be a 12/12, I think I would prefer Grave Titan still for raw power.

[pfiremc13]

I think that it seems worse than the titans. Letting you opponent choose is a great draw back. Even if you could have it always be a 12/12, I think I would prefer Grave Titan still for raw power.

I agree, especially since the board will often be clear.

[Jaredar]

What do you guys think of Nessian Wilds Ravager as a replacement for the Titans? GSZ-able 6/6 for 6 that either fights a creature when it comes into play, or gets 6 +1+1 counters.

Doesn't seem good at all to me. The titans are great beaters that also generate massive board advantages if left unchecked. The Ravager is just a really good beater. If they answer a grave titan you still have zombies left. If they answer Ravager you don't have much to show for it.

[Megadeus]

Also, I'm a deck that commonly plays deeds and walkers and even random artifacts like ours, a lot of the time they may just have like a 6/7 goyf who this man can't even fight profitably then

[Blastoderm]

What do you guys think of Nessian Wilds Ravager as a replacement for the Titans? GSZ-able 6/6 for 6 that either fights a creature when it comes into play, or gets 6 +1+1 counters.

Polukranos, World Eater seems a bit better for it's cost. Plus it hits multiple targets.

[civet five]

Grave Titan generates tokens for Recurring Nightmare and starts Pod chains for DRS when necessary. I can't ever imagine cutting him from the current style BUG Pod lists.

If I'm going to run a 2nd 6CMC fattie, its going to be Aetherling, Oona or Massacre Wurm at this moment, and I'm alternating between them. However, I've also been experimenting with Fierce Empath, Spike Weaver, and a 2nd Scooze in that slot, and I'm pretty torn between all of them.

I like Spike Weaver a lot right now because it addresses 2 things I have issues with: Goblins and Merfolk. Weaver has been helping me buy time so that I can build board presence and setup a Deed-wipe that hits everything. Also if you can drop it before Elves goes off, you get to just sit there and laugh.

[Qweerios]

I have a lot of experience playing against UWr Miracles. First of all, veteran + therapy does back fire inmediatly, and Thrun is godlike in this MU.... my list also plays Pod and a lot of creatures on CMC 3-4-5 to get rid off counterbalance (harmonic sliver, wickerbough elder and acidic slime). Slime works to destroy karakas also. Carpet of flowers is a MVP on sb (-4 explorer for 3 carpets).

My list is having a lot of troubles with tempo. So i decided to take out all the cards that are bad against those decks.

My original list had 3 drs (went up to 4), 2 decays and 3 deeds (change for 4 decays 0 deeds) and strangleroot geist as a cmc2 with undying... it is hard to cast with the GG cost on turn 2 and it is only a 2/1 haste that I never want... haste is just an useless hability on this deck... i took out -2 strangleroot and put a full package of SFM + 2 equipments main.

why? because I can... SFM is a roundhouse by its own... its easier to pay 1W than GG on turn 2, trading a veteran for SFM with pod is just nuts... activating SFM for Bskull and then trade it for a cmc 3 is also good. i got tired of playing subotimal cards on curve 2... BUG has baleful strix, I had wall of blossoms? elvish visionary? no thxs.

My final list seems something like this.



Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer = Nic fit Staple, 4 of.
4 Deathrite Shaman = Helps for Pod turn 2 and is just godlike.
4 Stoneforge Mystic = best cmc2 on my colors
1 Gaddock Teeg = hatebear for combo, GSZable
1 Scavenging Ooze = Hatebear against loam decks and counter opposing DRS
1 Kitchen Finks = just value with pod... fine attacker/chumpblocker
1 Eternal Witness = gut shots/value
1 Harmonic Sliver = good against sfm decks
1 Orzhov Pontiff = MVP against elves and tnn decks
1 Thrun, the Last Thrun = MVP against miracles and good equipped with bskull
1 Wickerbough Elder = CMC4 for trade with pod
1 Thragtusk = CMC5 good trade with pod for titan, leaves a body
1 Shriekmaw = take out emrakul with show n tell, goyfs, etc cant be spell pierced on turn 2 against delver
1 Grave Titan = good beater... could be sun titan?

Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith = good engine, helps to play pod turn 2 on the draw (dryad)
3 Birthing Pod = another engine, cant be decayed
4 Cabal Therapy = protection, synergy with veteran and thragtusk/finks
4 Abrupt Decay = best removal ever... i dont like to ask
1 Batterskull = since I lack of deeds main, these one can help in goblins MU and tempo
1 Umezawa's Jitte = same as bskull, but also helps against elves



Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

//SB [15]
4 Natural Order
1 Ruric
1 Progenitus
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Carpet of Flowers

I like your Junk Pod list. It is reminiscent of the one I posted a few months back before TNN was released and shares the same core cards (4 GSZ and 4 Decay). It was a successful (not tier 1 though) and very rewarding deck to play. The main change here is that you changed the Rector package (Rector, Deed, Recurring Nightmare) for a SFM package. SFM was something I was contemplating for never got around to it because I would have to let go of the Rector package. It trades late game late debilitating interactions for a lower curve and gives the deck much needed life gain via Jitte and Skull. Here are the things that caught my attention:

-3 Birthing Pods. Playing less than 4 Pods in a non-blue Pod deck seems wrong.

-0 Wall of Blossoms and 4 SFM. Playing 4 SFM with 2 equipments and without Brainstorm generally means that the 2nd or 3rd SFM won't be able to fetch anything. You also have no good Pod bodies to GSZ for at 2 when you wish to Pod into a 3drop. You can do it with Teeg and Ooze but you will forfeit a free draw and lose a silver bullet in the process. Wall of Blossoms is definitely a good card all around for Pod because it is still one of the best 2drop Pod bodies availlable. I think a 3/1 split of SFM/WoB would augment your flexibility and consistency.

-4 Deathrites. Like you, I played both 3 and 4 copies of DRS and they are great t1 plays. Issues arise when I get more than 1 DRS and cannot convert them into anything else because I lack a Pod or have better things to do with my Pod than to pod into a 2drop. It is very difficult to make use of a single DRS at times and activating 2 DRS every turn is extremely rare because a single DRS will generally eat 1 land per turn in a GY and we will then struggle to find the mana to ping for 2 every turn when lands are depleted. I believe 3 DRS is the right number for a Pod deck with 4 GSZ for Arbor and 4 Explorers. The 4th copy is redundant and eats up space.

-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.

-1 Wickerbough Elder. I never liked this card in Pod or any Nic Fit deck for several reasons. The first is that artifact/enchantment removal is already well represented with 4 Decays, 4 GSZ, 3-4 Pods and 1 Harmonic Sliver. The second is that it is a virtual 5drop because you have to pay additional mana for its effect. At 5 mana, Acidic Slime is much better because it has Deathtouch and can destroy lands.

-0 Restoration Angel. This card is extremely good in any Pod deck in general for several reasons as well. I used to play it religiously in a Rector Pod list, but your version seems an even better fit for it given SFM. A 3/4, Flying, Flash body is a powerful tool in legacy and much needed in this deck. It blocks Delvers and Cliques, cannot be Bolted or Decayed, and carries equipments like a champ. Its flickering ability is great when coupled with virtually all of the Pod creatures as it triggers CiP abilities, leave play abilities, resets Persist/Undying, and saves creatures from targeted removal! Combine her with a Thragtusk or a Titan and you've pretty much clogged the board with value.

Questions and concerns:

How is Gaea's Cradle faring? I think it is an interesting addition but I don't know if the opportunity cost is worth it.

Is Volrath's Stronghold necessary? I know how good it is and how minimal of an investment it appears to be. However, Pod tends tend to only want creatures and lands.

Do you need 4 Forests and 3 Swamps? 8 basic lands is a lot for any Nic Fit deck and a healthy dose of basic lands tend to hover around 5-7. It seems to me like additional fetches would give you more color availability and you could definitely do without the 3rd Swamp and the 4th Forest (even the 3rd).

Why non-green fetches (Marsh Flats)? Green is your primary color and green fetches can grab Dryad Arbor to start Pod chains.

Do Pod decks really need a 6drop in general? Isn't Thrun + Equipments enough to take on most games without having access to any 6drops? I would personally take Sigarda over Grave Titan as a finisher on the top of my curve.

[Megadeus]

-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.



Alternatively, playing redcap inspired me to play recurring Nightmare and I have since loved the card.

[pfiremc13]

-3 Birthing Pods. Playing less than 4 Pods in a non-blue Pod deck seems wrong.

Pod isn't always amazing and the deck does run 4 gsz.


-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.

Agreed.


Do Pod decks really need a 6drop in general? Isn't Thrun + Equipments enough to take on most games without having access to any 6drops? I would personally take Sigarda over Grave Titan as a finisher on the top of my curve.

6-drops help

Nic fit needs to be threat dense with how much we tend to rely on topdecking

[KntrellCL]

I like your Junk Pod list. It is reminiscent of the one I posted a few months back before TNN was released and shares the same core cards (4 GSZ and 4 Decay). It was a successful (not tier 1 though) and very rewarding deck to play. The main change here is that you changed the Rector package (Rector, Deed, Recurring Nightmare) for a SFM package. SFM was something I was contemplating for never got around to it because I would have to let go of the Rector package. It trades late game late debilitating interactions for a lower curve and gives the deck much needed life gain via Jitte and Skull. Here are the things that caught my attention:

-3 Birthing Pods. Playing less than 4 Pods in a non-blue Pod deck seems wrong.

-0 Wall of Blossoms and 4 SFM. Playing 4 SFM with 2 equipments and without Brainstorm generally means that the 2nd or 3rd SFM won't be able to fetch anything. You also have no good Pod bodies to GSZ for at 2 when you wish to Pod into a 3drop. You can do it with Teeg and Ooze but you will forfeit a free draw and lose a silver bullet in the process. Wall of Blossoms is definitely a good card all around for Pod because it is still one of the best 2drop Pod bodies availlable. I think a 3/1 split of SFM/WoB would augment your flexibility and consistency.

-4 Deathrites. Like you, I played both 3 and 4 copies of DRS and they are great t1 plays. Issues arise when I get more than 1 DRS and cannot convert them into anything else because I lack a Pod or have better things to do with my Pod than to pod into a 2drop. It is very difficult to make use of a single DRS at times and activating 2 DRS every turn is extremely rare because a single DRS will generally eat 1 land per turn in a GY and we will then struggle to find the mana to ping for 2 every turn when lands are depleted. I believe 3 DRS is the right number for a Pod deck with 4 GSZ for Arbor and 4 Explorers. The 4th copy is redundant and eats up space.

-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.

-1 Wickerbough Elder. I never liked this card in Pod or any Nic Fit deck for several reasons. The first is that artifact/enchantment removal is already well represented with 4 Decays, 4 GSZ, 3-4 Pods and 1 Harmonic Sliver. The second is that it is a virtual 5drop because you have to pay additional mana for its effect. At 5 mana, Acidic Slime is much better because it has Deathtouch and can destroy lands.

-0 Restoration Angel. This card is extremely good in any Pod deck in general for several reasons as well. I used to play it religiously in a Rector Pod list, but your version seems an even better fit for it given SFM. A 3/4, Flying, Flash body is a powerful tool in legacy and much needed in this deck. It blocks Delvers and Cliques, cannot be Bolted or Decayed, and carries equipments like a champ. Its flickering ability is great when coupled with virtually all of the Pod creatures as it triggers CiP abilities, leave play abilities, resets Persist/Undying, and saves creatures from targeted removal! Combine her with a Thragtusk or a Titan and you've pretty much clogged the board with value.

Questions and concerns:

How is Gaea's Cradle faring? I think it is an interesting addition but I don't know if the opportunity cost is worth it.

Is Volrath's Stronghold necessary? I know how good it is and how minimal of an investment it appears to be. However, Pod tends tend to only want creatures and lands.

Do you need 4 Forests and 3 Swamps? 8 basic lands is a lot for any Nic Fit deck and a healthy dose of basic lands tend to hover around 5-7. It seems to me like additional fetches would give you more color availability and you could definitely do without the 3rd Swamp and the 4th Forest (even the 3rd).

Why non-green fetches (Marsh Flats)? Green is your primary color and green fetches can grab Dryad Arbor to start Pod chains.

Do Pod decks really need a 6drop in general? Isn't Thrun + Equipments enough to take on most games without having access to any 6drops? I would personally take Sigarda over Grave Titan as a finisher on the top of my curve.


Thanks for your response and you are right in a lot of points. I didnt like any of my CMC2 on GSZ so I just took them out (wall of blossoms, strangleroot geist, etc) so finally I put my SFM package. I made some changes today before the tournament.

1. I like Pod but drawing them in multiples early game is not good, plus 4 gsz you can fetch almost everything.
2. Doing a GSZ for Wall of blossoms was pretty lame for me... 1G 0/4 random draw vs 1G opposing goyf? no thxs... 1W 1/2 Bskull draw seems better.
3. DRS is godlike and helps for the curve (i had to go up to 7-8 fetchs for them)
4. Murderous Redcap just dont make the cut for me... i had 1 in sb though.
5. You are right, i talked to a friend and took out some of my silver bullets for some bombs... put Linvala instead of Wickerbough
6. I used to play Resto angel (2 copies) and I put them back today... they are just so very good, and flying is also a valuable thing with equipments... being cmc4 is good against decay also and out of bolt range...

Answers:

1. Not being able to fetch gaea cradle anytime I want was bad... it was very random and clogged some initial hands.
2. Volrath's Stronghold is good enough to ensure your top decks... but it is not necessary... just helpful
3. Today I played 3 forest 3 swamp 1 plains and 7 fetchs to feed DRS.
4. I took out marsh flats... not being able to fetch dryad was my main reason.
5. Again, you make your point... Grave titan is great... it must be for 6 mana... but leaving my curve to 5 seems good and I love sigarda as a beater... today I took some games with resto angel equipped... and I would be happy to trade resto for sigarda...

My final list is:

Pod Rock

Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor

Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Restoration Angel
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons


Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sb:
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Redcap Morderous
1 Orzhov Pontiff

[Qweerios]

I played the following list today:


Creatures (23)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Restoration Angel
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Others (18)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay

4 Birthing Pod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Lands (19)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Bone Shredder
1 Sin Collector
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


I went to time against Miracles, beat Smallpox in 3 games, got raped by T3 Marrit Lage against Hex/Stage Depth (cant win this matchup with any Nic Fit deck), and I lost to High Tide in 3 games after a mulligan to oblivion on G3.

The deck has potential but is way too inconsistent. Miracles and High Tide are definitely difficult matchups because Explorer helps them more than it helps us and they can recover from discard spells easily. I really missed Phyrexian Tower today and will certainly replace the 4th Pod with Tower. I liked the addition of SFM even though I never got to play any equipments out of her. Thrun feels out of place as I never want to Pod or GSZ for him. Sigarda is superior to Thrun 99% of the time.

Here's the next Pod list I will probably try next week:


Creatures (22)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman

3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg

1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks

1 Murderous Redcap
1 Academy Rector
1 Restoration Angel

1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw

Others (18)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

3 Abrupt Decay

3 Birthing Pod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Pernicious Deed

Lands (20)
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Bone Shredder
1 Sin Collector
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons


Any suggestions?

[litenkatt]

Re: Dark Depths. I agree here. That card was printed to kill nic fit. Sure, you can play a karakas or StP in your decks but they will only buy you a turn or two since those decks are normaly playing loam, wastelands and crucible (oh and if you destroy curcible they got academy ruins)

[Megadeus]

In the stage depths match up, getting active scavenging ooze seems to be the key.

[MD.Ghost]

In the stage depths match up, getting active scavenging ooze seems to be the key.

I play 2 Pithing Needle in my current Sideboard.

My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas. The Sorcery-Speed Solutions only work if you get a lifegain online (Thragtusk, Huntmaster etc.), so they can't "Oneshot" you with EoT Token and Attack.

Sideboard Support contains one more Deathrite, 2 Needles and 2 Extractions. Needles helped a lot to avoid the EoT-Attack-Kill. Extraction, Ooze and Deathrite can fight the loam plan, which is the common way (besides Crop Rotation) to get the Lands Combo in Play.

With Needles it is still a hard matchup but you get a opportunity to fight back. Without Needles you can only pray to catch them off-guard if they use loam and you get Ooze online.

[Ralf]

I play 2 Pithing Needle in my current Sideboard.

My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas. The Sorcery-Speed Solutions only work if you get a lifegain online (Thragtusk, Huntmaster etc.), so they can't "Oneshot" you with EoT Token and Attack.

Sideboard Support contains one more Deathrite, 2 Needles and 2 Extractions. Needles helped a lot to avoid the EoT-Attack-Kill. Extraction, Ooze and Deathrite can fight the loam plan, which is the common way (besides Crop Rotation) to get the Lands Combo in Play.

With Needles it is still a hard matchup but you get a opportunity to fight back. Without Needles you can only pray to catch them off-guard if they use loam and you get Ooze online.

Marit Lage is indestructible so Pulse won't work at all.
Everything else is correct.

[Zinch]

My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas.

The pulse doesn't work because the token is indestructible.

[KntrellCL]

I played the following list today:


Creatures (23)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Restoration Angel
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Others (18)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay

4 Birthing Pod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Lands (19)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Bone Shredder
1 Sin Collector
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


I went to time against Miracles, beat Smallpox in 3 games, got raped by T3 Marrit Lage against Hex/Stage Depth (cant win this matchup with any Nic Fit deck), and I lost to High Tide in 3 games after a mulligan to oblivion on G3.

The deck has potential but is way too inconsistent. Miracles and High Tide are definitely difficult matchups because Explorer helps them more than it helps us and they can recover from discard spells easily. I really missed Phyrexian Tower today and will certainly replace the 4th Pod with Tower. I liked the addition of SFM even though I never got to play any equipments out of her. Thrun feels out of place as I never want to Pod or GSZ for him. Sigarda is superior to Thrun 99% of the time.

Here's the next Pod list I will probably try next week:


Creatures (22)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman

3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg

1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks

1 Murderous Redcap
1 Academy Rector
1 Restoration Angel

1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw

Others (18)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

3 Abrupt Decay

3 Birthing Pod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Pernicious Deed

Lands (20)
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Bone Shredder
1 Sin Collector
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons


Any suggestions?



I really think 4 drs is the correct number. I would play at least 21 lands as minimum... i finally cut the volraths stronghold, but phyrexian tower is just a must have.

I dont feel comfortable playing wall of blossoms... is so underpower compared to others cmc2 (bob, goyf, etc), my deck list plays teeg and ooze to gsz... both of those cards wins against the matches i want them, if not, i will be happy to trade them with pod. May be some deeds on your 75? Also, thrun is great against miracles

[Qweerios]

Stages Depths is hard to manage when they go off with Living Wish/Crop Rotation for Hex Mage/Stage/Depths. There is only little interactions to be had there and it all occurs so fast. I don't think this matchup is worth trying to improve since it is so obscure and difficult. Compare it to 12 Post if you will.

@Kentrell,

During several games I couldn't use more than a single DRS' mana producing ability and had more pressing things to do than pay mana to ping my opponent. When you draw 2 you just hope your opponent removes him so you can get a bit of value out of your cards...

Wall of Blossoms is one of my most sought after GSZ and Pod targets when building a chain. You don't always want equipments, casting your equipments the following turns isn't always the optimal play, and Jittes/Batterskulls aren't always the most relevant things in every matchup. I favor Blossom over SFM in a lot of tempo matchups as well when I know my opponent is holding removal, then there is simply no value in drawing a Jitte or a BSkull when you are being pressured by a creature that Blossoms can block.

[Blastoderm]

I decided to try cutting rector. I'm replacing it with a diabolic intent which is useful in all matchups (gets SB cards like thalia or thoughtseize g2-g3). Rector was my go-to card in order to start recurring nightmare insanity against fair decks but without a pod its hard to get going. Intent for recurring nightmare seems like it could work. Considering that this deck is built to crush all fair matchups, would it make sense to include thalia or the new spirit maindeck? Right now I'm testing 3 thalia main and 3 spirit sb. I'm also considering another Teeg in the sb to to bring in vs combo and to help in the miracles matchup. I'm also going to test pithing needle. Here's my list so far:

3 deathrite shaman
4 veteran explorer

1 gaddock teeg
2 wall of blossoms
1 strangleroot geist
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 scavenging ooze

1 boneshredder
1 kitchen finks
1 eternal witness
1 harmonic sliver

1 thrun the last troll
1 restoration angel
1 murderous redcap

1 thragtusk
1 shriekmaw
1 sigarda, host of herons

4 green sun's zenith
4 cabal therapy
4 birthing pod
1 diabolic intent
1 recurring nightmare

lands (21)

1 dryad arbor
3 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
1 plains
2 swamp
4 forest
3 windswept heath
1 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacombs

sideboard:

3 thoughtseize
2 surgical extraction
3 abrupt decay
1 pernicious deed
1 orzhov pontif
1 fleshbag marauder
3 spirit of the labyrinth
1 Gaddock Teeg

[Jaredar]

I don't like multiple copies of thalia because we can't get value off of it by sacing it to pod or looping it with nightmare and it doesn't immediately win the game in certain matchups like Teeg or Canonist do. Though it's probably worth testing. I really like Spirit, it hurts almost every deck we struggle with at the moment.

Rector is really weird, because when you don't have a sac outlet she feels very underwhelming, but in the right moments she can be exactly what you need. I'm having a hard time evaluating her.

[Qweerios]

Pod doesn't really beat all fair decks. The assumption that Nic Fit is good against midrange is pretty much based on 4 copies of Deed, and Pod plays none. Thalia is a step in the wrong direction as it is usually as good against us as it is against our opponents. Lab Spirit is sweet but falls under the category of 2 CMC Silver bullets that cannot be GSZ'ed...

[pfiremc13]

Spirit can be rectored out.

[Ralf]

Courser of Kruphix 1GG
Enchantment Creature - Centaur (R)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
You may play the top card of your library if it's a land card.
Whenever a land ETB under your control, gain 1 life.
2/4

I like the guy...
What do you think ?

[Blastoderm]

Pod doesn't really beat all fair decks. The assumption that Nic Fit is good against midrange is pretty much based on 4 copies of Deed, and Pod plays none. Thalia is a step in the wrong direction as it is usually as good against us as it is against our opponents. Lab Spirit is sweet but falls under the category of 2 CMC Silver bullets that cannot be GSZ'ed...

I guess you're right about Thalia. Maybe the Spirit will be more worthwhile but I'm still not sure if it's worth it in the main. After all, 2 stoneforge + 2 equipments could be in its place. However, I am very sure it will improve the show and tell matchup (which is kind of terrible atm) to stop their cantrips early game and to shut off griselbrand. Plus it hits for 3.

In my experience, Pod still does extremely well vs fair/midrange due to pod into rector--> recurring nightmare ---> thragtusk/shriekmaw. It was even more stupid at the time when I played Reveillark/Sun Titan (when deathrite and RiP didn't exist). Adding stoneforge seems to make the matchup even better.

My main concern now is the Miracles matchup. I think we need Thrun and Sigarda in the main. Something I'm extremely considering is a maindeck Taiga with 4 Slaughter Games in the board. Every Jund Nic Fit report I come across always seems to include wins against miracles because of this card...not to mention it helps against combo as well! With Deathrites, Thrun, Sigarda, Abrupt Decay, Gaddock Teeg and Slaughter Games I think we have a chance.

[Megadeus]

Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.

What's your list like? Sounds like in both matchups could've been helped by boarding in Pithing Needles (first for Batterskull, then the second for Thespian's Stage).

[KntrellCL]

Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.

Why would you play fleshBAD marauder? Against tnn orzhov pontiff is better.... against show n tell, bone shredder can kill emrakul for the same cmc3.

Also, playing 4 drs gives you control of the gy (snapcaster)

[Megadeus]

What's your list like? Sounds like in both matchups could've been helped by boarding in Pithing Needles (first for Batterskull, then the second for Thespian's Stage).

The first match up was all one long game. It went forty five minutes. Yeah needle is a card I like a lot. I'm on BUG pod. Orzohv pontiff isn't really an option

[Zinch]

I realy think punishing nic fit is very well positioned in the current metagame.

Even without Grove, a single Punishing Fire could have helped you against the batterskull (he gains life, so triggers the fire), Liliana is a very good card against midrange decks (I don't know if your list had any), Volrath's Stronghold is perfect for the situation you are describing (again, I don't know if you play any), Thrun just eats alive the kind of reature hate you mentioned, etc.

Not having the deck diluted with silver bullets and playing red for the pyroblasts in the SB are also good think agaisnt decks like stoneblade.

In fact I would play this match up every round of any tournament if I could!


Against Jund Depths it is a little more trickier... If you don't have a sideboard answer is a very hard match up.

[Megadeus]

stronghold would have been very nice to have. And yeah I cut thrun a few weeks ago. Sad. It was just absolutely frustrating to lose that match. The depths one I knew was not a great match up. I did keep some greedy hands, but I knew that I would have to be lucky to have a shot. I think post board vs the esper blade deck I would've had a solid shot by bringing in Maelstrom Pulse, Negate, and Krosan Grip. Unfortunately by the time I started losing control of game 1, there were only like 15 minutes in the round and I didn't think I would have any shot of winning two games in that amount of time

[KntrellCL]

the only time I played against depths deck... i chump blocked with a resto angel and then copy marit lage with a metamorph

[DragoFireheart]

the only time I played against depths deck... i chump blocked with a resto angel and then copy marit lage with a metamorph

Yet, the giant tentacle creature can be chump blocked. Good way to troll the player using Marit Lage.

[tons of fun]

ok gentlemen im trying a new card the memoplasm so far i have turned it into a true name with a chameleon as it pluses, then in a game against a jund i took it as a bloodbraid with a 6/7 gof as its pluses so what u think fellow nic fiters with bug collors

[EpicLevelCommoner]

ok gentlemen im trying a new card the memoplasm so far i have turned it into a true name with a chameleon as it pluses, then in a game against a jund i took it as a bloodbraid with a 6/7 gof as its pluses so what u think fellow nic fiters with bug collors

Not a bad idea perse, but I'd run it as a 1-of with a full 4-of Green Sun's Zenith.

[tons of fun]

Not a bad idea perse, but I'd run it as a 1-of with a full 4-of Green Sun's Zenith.

great minds think alike i am running a 1 of only

[Megadeus]

Ive been somewhat brewing a NO list. Seems actually solid vs Reanimator

[litenkatt]

How to never lose a game of magic again, play this list:

CREATURES (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Dryad Arbor
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Pernicious Deed
SORCERIES (12)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
INSTANTS (4)
4 Punishing Fire
PLANESWALKERS (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (3)
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
LANDS (20)
2 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Taiga
3 Bayou
1 Badlands

Havent done the SB yet

[Ralf]

How to never lose a game of magic again, play this list:

CREATURES (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Dryad Arbor
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Pernicious Deed
SORCERIES (12)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
INSTANTS (4)
4 Punishing Fire
PLANESWALKERS (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (3)
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
LANDS (20)
2 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Taiga
3 Bayou
1 Badlands

Havent done the SB yet

Not enough lands and far too slow against combo.

[civet five]

How to never lose a game of magic again, play this list:

CREATURES (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Dryad Arbor
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Pernicious Deed
SORCERIES (12)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
INSTANTS (4)
4 Punishing Fire
PLANESWALKERS (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (3)
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
LANDS (20)
2 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Taiga
3 Bayou
1 Badlands

Havent done the SB yet

I've also been working on Natural Order lists as I've had similar issues as Megadeus just getting run over because when you don't get Pod online, you just have a bunch of crappy random creatures. I had been working via Junk colors as I think that having access to Gaddock Teeg and Harmonic Sliver is pretty good, and I kid you not I've actually been testing Silence in my sideboard (way too cute, but it is nice to Chantwalk someone and then drop a Progenitus). It basically looks like litenkatt's list but Junk colors and with Stronghold and Tower, and Primetime instead of Ruric Thar. Sideboard:

4 Silence
4 Thoughtseize
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Spike Weaver
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Scavenging Ooze (2nd in the 75).

The Silence would probably be better as a combination of Surgical and Extirpate, but I'm not entirely unhappy with this setup either.

I could definitely see myself switching to Jund colors though, as Ruric Thar is a beating and if you can drop him quickly its game over for combo them. The Jund-config sideboard probably doesn't look too far off from something like this:

4 Thoughseize
3 Surgical/Extirpate
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Kitchen Finks/Thragtusk
1-2 other targets like Viridian Shaman, Viridian Zealot, Teeg
1 DRS
2-3 Maelstrom Pulse to deal with other problem permanents and 'Walkers

[Megadeus]

I was thinking of NO BUG fit as it allows counter spells and of course brainstorm. Just can't figure out exactly what men to play. Coiling Oracle seems sweet, but also underwhelming

[civet five]

I was thinking of NO BUG fit as it allows counter spells and of course brainstorm. Just can't figure out exactly what men to play. Coiling Oracle seems sweet, but also underwhelming

NO BUG Fit was my first attempt, and without Pod you need GSZ, which puts you into a weird situation where your creatures need to be both blue and green. That really limits your options and all-but-forces Coiling Oracle. The only way around this is to forsake Force of Will, but I think that the entire point of running BUG is to have access to Force of Will (not just counters in general). Deck space is really tight, because we want the following:
8 slots for VE+CT
4 Brainstorm Main deck
12 other blue cards in the 75 (4 Force of Will, 4 Coiling Oracle, 4 Ponder/UG creature, etc)
5 slots for Natural Order+Progenitus

The more I durdle around, the less I think NO package has a home in Nic Fit shells.

[Qweerios]

There is no value out of sacrificing an Explorer to NO. You don't want to give your opponent the extra lands he needs to cast his Supreme Verdict or whatever outs he has to Progenitus. Blue is appealing to NO decks because Brainstorm is a great way to reshuffle Progenitus and additional NO copies. Clique is also a nice threat to ramp into and will usually secure NO on the following turn.

[civet five]

There is no value out of sacrificing an Explorer to NO. You don't want to give your opponent the extra lands he needs to cast his Supreme Verdict or whatever outs he has to Progenitus. Blue is appealing to NO decks because Brainstorm is a great way to reshuffle Progenitus and additional NO copies. Clique is also a nice threat to ramp into and will usually secure NO on the following turn.

Yup, plus Cabal Therapy is anti-synergistic with Natural Order, and Pernicious Deed might have some issues with sweeping your own creatures.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

There's a ton of anti-synergy between a Nic Fit shell and a Natural Order shell. Nic Fit is about controlling the game long enough to hardcast high-end win-cons, whereas Natural Order is about controlling the game long enough to cheat in a win-con. EDIT: I'd actually suggest that using Pattern of Rebirth in a Rector Fit shell might work though.

[MrShine]

There's a ton of anti-synergy between a Nic Fit shell and a Natural Order shell. Nic Fit is about controlling the game long enough to hardcast high-end win-cons, whereas Natural Order is about controlling the game long enough to cheat in a win-con. EDIT: I'd actually suggest that using Pattern of Rebirth in a Rector Fit shell might work though.

You should check out this thread for ideas: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21478-Deck-Zenith-Rebirth-Order-(ZeRo)-%97-Flashless-Hulk-Combo

I know XantidSwarm and he's had a lot of success with the deck, although its extremely difficult to pilot. If you're running Pattern then at least NO has synergy in terms of doubling up on targets. It IS still an extremely powerful tutor, as evidenced by the success of Elves.

Just for ideas and stuff.

[litenkatt]

You got liliana to shuffel Progenitus into your library if needed, and cabal therapy to know when the coast is clear to combo out. Of course against blue decks with mass removal you want to be careful, but even if they do counter NO or kill your progenitus, you can still cast a 2nd or 3rd later on in the game. As after all, you've got plenty of removal in the deck so you can stay alive for quite some time

And worse come to worse, you can still do some beatdowns :-D Although the deck isn't really designed for that but it's possible to add few more utility creatures to GSZ for

[monaco.errante]

I'm new to this deck, I'm playing with punishing nicfit and I like it a lot...
I'm asking to those that are more expert than me: does anyone considered Vexing Shusher against blu-based decks? pros/cons?

[tons of fun]

I was thinking of NO BUG fit as it allows counter spells and of course brainstorm. Just can't figure out exactly what men to play. Coiling Oracle seems sweet, but also underwhelming

ny list for dead eye fit has been amazing over all i habe about 85 - 90% game win chance i do not run pod and i been running coilings since i created the deadeye build and they have never let em down

[Razorwynd]

ny list for dead eye fit has been amazing over all i habe about 85 - 90% game win chance i do not run pod and i been running coilings since i created the deadeye build and they have never let em down

what is your list?

[Qweerios]

Took first place at a local tournament (23 players I think) with Birthing Pod after I shelved the deck before TNN came out. I squeezed in the SFM package and gave up on 6drops. Here's the list and results:


Creatures (22)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Restoration Angel
1 Academy Rector
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw

Others (18)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Birthing pod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Pernicious Deed

Lands (20)
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Bone Shredder
1 Sin Collector
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons


Swiss:

2-0 vs. BG Discard (Budget crappy deck)
2-0 vs. Death and Taxes
2-1 vs. Sneak Show
0-2 vs. Miracles with Moat/Humility
Draw into top8

Top8:

2-0 vs. Ledless Dredge (My friend dropped and gave me the game. I lost 0-2 when we played it out)
2-0 vs. Team America
2-1 vs. Punishing Zoo

Props:

-SFM, Jitte, and Batterskull against almost everything
-Wall of Blossoms as my best Pod enabler
-Ooze for his dominion over Pfire, Dredge, Goyf, and DRS
-Bone Shredder for seeing lots of play and being a great Jitte carrier
-Pontiff and Redcap for repetitively clearing the board
-Thragtusk for the reactions he causes
-Sigarda against anything with Punishing Fire and Liliana
-Phyrexian Tower for all the tight plays it enables (Explorer ramp, Persist triggers, Nightmare loops, prevent Jitte charges, prevent lifelink life gain)

Slops:

-Thalia for being mostly irrelevant and/or a bad canonist
-Kitchen Finks for being weak in Legacy
-Academy Rector for hiding throughout the entirety of the tournament
-Recurring Nightmare for being a dead card in every match except the last one (Thrag/Shredder/Blossoms loops against Zoo)
-Spirit of the Labyrinth for not being released yet as it would be a perfect SB hatebear for this deck

Going forward I would probably like to re-include the 4th Decay;
try and fit Sigarda in the main, perhaps instead of Shriekmaw;
maybe replace Finks with Bone Shredder;
get a combination of Spirit of the Labyrinth and Tidehollow Sculler as SB cards against combo decks to replace Sin Collector, Thalia, and maybe a couple of Thoughtseizes.

[KntrellCL]

How would it be Voice of Resurgence for cmc2?

[Qweerios]

How would it be Voice of Resurgence for cmc2?

I fail to see the appeal.

[KntrellCL]

I dont get it... do you think is a bad idea?

[tons of fun]

what is your list?

4 veteran
2 coiling oricale
1 baleful strix
1 feirce empath
1 eternal witness
1 kitchen finks
1 chameleon colossus
1 venser shaper savant
1 mystic snake
2 thragtusk
1 deadeye navigator
1 frost titan
1 consecrated sphinx

2 sensei's top
4 cabal therapy
3 green sun zenith
1 diabolic intent
3 living wish
1 recuring nightmare
2 maelstrom pulse
3 pernicous deed
2 jace the mindscuplter

3 bayou
3 tropical island
1 underground sea
3 island
3 forest
2 swamp
3 misty rainforest
3 verdant catacombs
1 phyrexian tower

side/
2 flusterstorm
1 toxic deluge
2 abrupt decay
2 carpet of flowers
1 eternal witness
2 glen elandra archmage
1 venser shaper savant
1 deadeye naigator
1 high market
1 bajoka bog
1 valrath stronghold

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Regarding Voice of Resurgence: although it'd be pretty easy for us to get the token out, there's one big problem.

It's an anti-control card, and we're typically playing the control role in most matchups.

[KntrellCL]

But all our cards are sorcery speed and is a good trade for pod. I must test it haha

[Megadeus]

But all our cards are sorcery speed and is a good trade for pod. I must test it haha

Makes me want to build like a Junk "Token Fit" deck. Every creature makes tokens like blade splicer and voice and like deranged hermit and recurring nightmare to just flood the board

[EpicLevelCommoner]

But all our cards are sorcery speed and is a good trade for pod. I must test it haha

Sometimes I forget that Nic Fit has a lot of different directions it can go in >_<

I admit it could be very useful in Pod Fit, mostly because Pod Fit runs more creatures than other forms of Nic Fit.

[KntrellCL]

Sometimes I forget that Nic Fit has a lot of different directions it can go in >_<

I admit it could be very useful in Pod Fit, mostly because Pod Fit runs more creatures than other forms of Nic Fit.

Sorry for not mentioned before... but im a pod player :P

[Qweerios]

The thing about Voice is that it competes with other 2drops. Most 2drops are all superior already and a deck can only play so many...

[MD.Ghost]

I had a very funny tournament @GPTrial Mainz/Germany (33 Players, 6 rounds)

Played the same Punishing Fit list which won me the GP byes the last week.

Matchups:
2:1 Reanimate
2:1 Manaless Dredge
1:2 RUG
0:2 bUrg
2:0 TES
2:0 TES

Fun Fact: – Lost against 2 Tempo Decks and beat 4 Combo Decks.

Against RUG (on camera) Game 1 he topdecked bolt for the win without a board, Game 3 My first black mana got wasted and I can’t gain another one early enough, so I did with 1 Liliana, 2 Therapys and 1 Decay in Hand…

Against bUrg we played a nice game but I am not full concentrated because my friend (sawatrix) needs the byes and it was clear that I will concede for him.

Last matchup against TES, we played it out and we know that the winner will take a top 8 place. He needed also the byes so I concede and get his (my) price because he takes my 6th place.

Against so many Combo Decks, my sideboard worked very good. Especially Slaughter Games and I thought about a 3rd Copy (maybe cut the 4th Red Elemental Blast or Garruk Relentless). The two Deathrites (1 Main 1 Side) worked also good enough, gaining advantage against Graveyard Decks, also drain life and important spells against Stormcombo.

GPTrial Mainz ended with a very happy Top8 Winner - my friend JPA got the byes with his relentless Sneak Show Deck - Congrats! :cool:

[Ralf]

Hi everyone,

Quick report for a "Scape show" where I lost in the semis of a Paris GPT with the following deck (61 players):
6 swiss rounds + Top 8.

1 Karakas
2 Bayou
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Badlands
3 Forest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Taiga

1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Thoughtseize
2 Scapeshift
2 Slaughter Games
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Sun's Zenith

SB : 1 Innocent Blood
SB : 1 Pyroclasm
SB : 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB : 1 Massacre
SB : 1 Toxic Deluge
SB : 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB : 2 Pyroblast
SB : 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB : 1 Slaughter Games
SB : 1 Scapeshift
SB : 1 Cabal Therapy

Round 1 TES (Loss 0-2)

Game 1:

I kept a fine opening hand vs fair.deck and died on his turn 2 (Ritual, ritual, LED -> IT -> BW -> ADN -> draw 10, play X -> Tendril /kiss)

Game 2

In 4 REB + 1 SLG (fatal error) + 1 Cabal. Out 3 deeds 1 Primetime 1 Thrag 1 Karakas

Both of us = Mull to 6 and I kept 2 REB + 1 Veteran + 1 Cabal + 1 BW + 1 Forest
Turn 1: played veteran and passed. Opponent played ponder and passed.
Turn 2: drew fetch (like a champ), fetch for badland, played cabal naming LED -> no led (TS, prob, prob, rite of flame, land, land). Flashback for TS. Opponent drew and played Probe -> met REB and passed.
Turn 3: drew Thragtusk and passed. Opponent drew and played Probe -> REB again and passed
Turn 4: drew land, played Thrag, passed (24 life). Opponent drew -> combo for storm count = 12...

If only I had left a SLG in the side...Wouldn't have been so fuuucked up with my BW in hand.

Round 2 Dredge (Win 2-0)

Game 1

Not much to say. Opponent mull to 4 and that was it. Not to mention that I kept an opening with my one-of "Ooze" -> crushed him

Game 2

Opponent kept 7, so do I. I tanked a bit until I introduce him with angry mountains for 18 (ouf, was dead by his next turn).

Round 3 Death and Taxes (Draw 1-1)

Game 1

I don't remember as game 1 lasted about 40 min, involving multiple board wipe with BW for massacre, bouncing of Thalia, the b..tch with my lone karakas; but I could not get rid of Batterskull and when I could scape him he was at 60. Eventually, I died under repeated flying assaults. Never got to cast Prime as it was stuck in my hand because of 3 rishadan ports..Pfewww.

Game 2

No Rishadan, no chocolate ! Primetime punished him the hard way ! As additional turns were called before game 3 started, we drew.

Round 4 Maverick (Win 2-0)

Game 1

Slug feast. 3 STP (on his side) and 7 lands later (on my side), the mass was said.

Game 2

Did I say "MASSACRE FTW" ? Well I just did. Bye bye fellow Aven Mindfuckers and "Hello Scapy scapy 36"


Round 5 BUG Delver (Win 2-1)

Game 1

"Red corner" involving early flipped double delver -> Secretly "gang-banged". Nothing I could do.

Game 2

What ??? You have never been introduced to Huntmaster. Well let me show you the flippy/flippy trick...
Yeah he is a badass :D

Game 3

Was dead on board (only 1 sensei), facing liliana, 1 delver (flipped), 1 Goyf and a DRS. My opponent decided to go hellbent with lili's +1 and finally met a scary scape for 21 (He was at 18 + 2 with DRS...pfewww)


Round 6 EsperBlade (Win 2-1)

Game 1

I quickly lost to an absurd amount of equipment on SFM...

Game 2

Huntmaster show ! Flip, flip, flip -> Paf. Yadaman !!!

Game 3

Blabla meddling mage on Scape, blabla Clique, blabla snapcaster -> BW for Massacre and shut up.
Eventually scape closed that one for me.

Quarters BUG Delver (Win 2-1)

Game 1

Absurb game where I had 2 Huntmasters in play by turn 4...

Game 2

Got crushed by hymn to tourach into an early Stalker. What a demon :-(

Game 3

Facing Liliana, double delver and Stalker, I managed to scape ftw !!!

Semi Punishing Jund (Loss 2-0)

Game 1

An unanswered Bob got him there with an absurd board. BBE into HTT took out my last 2 business spells and I drew lands after lands during 3 turns.

Game 2

Same as above. 10 lands out on my side and I kept drawing into more and more.

Conclusion:

I wonder whether or not carpet of flowers in SB are the right call at the moment. Mana denial strategy are on "decline". Throughout the day, I sided in Carpet in every delver matches but eventually it felt clunky/unecessary.
What are your feelings ? How can I improve both discard MU & Combo MU by cutting 3 carpet in my SB and maybe 1 REB ?

Thanks for your insights.

[SpeedOfDark]

Hi guys! Playing Nic Fit in a tournament 2 weeks from now; the list below is where I'm at atm. I built it with 2 things in mind:
1. I expect a metagame with plenty of tribal and TNN, so I want several sweepers main deck.
2. If I play geist and finks, I can potentially force aggro decks into overextending and I can give myself a better clock against combo postboard. (Also these creatures have sweet synergy with cabal therapy)

Feel free to suggest/critique!

---Deck---
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Shriekmaw
2 Grave Titan

1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Garruk Relentless

4 Pernicious Deed
2 Toxic Deluge

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

2 Swamp
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold

---SB---
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Duress
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Abrupt Decay

[pettdan]

@SpeedOfDark: Cool build, and very unorthodox. I'm by no means a Nic Fit guru but will share my first thoughts. I like how you combine extra discard with extra sweepers and the persist creatures. Seems like it will be generally good changes against combo and creature-based strategies, not least elves which is a combination of both.

With the heavy discard you may have a good game 1 against combo (relative to most other Nic Fit versions), but I'd like to see it with some kind of maindecked tutorable weak lock piece for you to follow up the discard with so you can get all those 20 points of damage in before the combo player manages to go off. One maindecked Gaddock Teeg? In those games you won't need Garruk Relentless anyway, and you could even play one before Gaddock.

Versus creature based decks you should be able to both put in pressure and keep pressure up after a Deed/Deluge. That's plenty of sweepers by the way, looks nice.

I'd suggest reducing the number of Geists (and/or Finks), you already have 4 Green Sun's Zenith so there'll be plenty of opportunities to get them into play, and change one into Gaddock Teeg or some other way of interaction.

A more traditional build would probably remove the Geists and put the Abrupt Decays in the maindeck. I'd consider swapping one, or for a Fink. But it kind of changes the nature of your deck from an aggressive version of Nic Fit towards a reactive. I'd try one to start with. You do seem a bit week to Pithing Needle, but perhaps you'll sideboard in your Decays against the decks that need protection from the Deeds.

Considering your Stronghold+Tower I would change one Grave Titan into a Primeval Titan. It's GSZ-able too.

Considering your heavy maindeck discard I would suggest you diversify the anti-combo hate in your sideboard, i.e. replacing one or more of the Duresses. Preferably with something that doesn't target. Chains of Mephistopheles, Spirit of the Labyrinth, one or two Surgical Extraction/Extirpate, Liliana of the Veil. Cranial Extraction/Memoricide doesn't work very well with the Gaddocks, however they should be pretty good vs Loam, Depths, Miracles, Dredge. That's always a tough decision.

Actually Liliana of the Veil would fit well with your sweepers and the high emphasize on low CMC creatures in your deck. You can get a couple of creatures out, clear the board (persist creatures returinging), play Liliana for ultimate board control and have your SDT's around for winning a topdeck war. At least in my magical Christmas land that's how it would play out. Something to consider for the maindeck, in place of some expensive creature for sure.

Recurring Nightmare also seems good in your deck, I'd suggest trying it as a one off at some point. Good enough with Tusk, Finks, Titans and all the sweepers (making for long games and lots of creatures in the graveyard). Recurring Geist isn't useless either, adds to your offense with the haste and all. And if you keep the Shriekmaw/Marauder in they should be good as well. And you have the extra discard [edit: and sweepers for Deathrites] to help you abuse it. Yes, I'd change a Fink into a Nightmare. Hope it doesn't water out your deck too much.

I don't like Fleshbag Marauder, but I can see that with all the persist creatures you're running and all the sweepers he fits relatively well. However Sensei's Divining Top seems more essential. I'd replace it, and probably the Shriekmaw too. There are already a lot of sweepers in your deck and the two Garruks for spot removal and a hoard of persisting chump blockers. And the two extra SDT's will help you find the sweepers which are better for your deck than spot removal AND the tops are useful vs combo and control. Come to think of it, your discard heavy build may need some more help with late-game topdecks than the usual Nic Fit decks, which further strengthens the argument for tops.

So, to sum up a few suggestions for tweaks to your deck that could be worth trying out:

Maindeck:
-1 Strangleroot Geist, +1 Gaddock Teeg
-1 Strangleroot Geist, +1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Kitchen Finks, +1 Recurring Nightmare
-1 Grave Titan, +1 Primeval Titan
-1 Fleshbag Maruader, +1 Sensei's Divining Top
-1 Shriekmaw, +1 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard:
-1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Chains of Mephistopheles (or once legal, Spirit of the Labyrinth)
-2 Duress, +2 Liliana of the Veil
All remaining Duresses into Thoughtseizes, if you have access to them.

Good luck with it! Hoping to read about your experiences with it!

[Tao]

Now that I have a bit of time I want to say that I am happy to see the deck in the DTB forum. Thanks and gratz to everyone who contributed in tournaments and in this thread.

@SpeedOfDark: I think pettdan made good suggestions. I'd keep Gaddock in the side though in that meta. You could try a Diabolic Intent, too. You have enough stuff to sac and can get Grave Titan, Nightmare or a sweeper as big targets.

@Spirit of the Labyrinth: This is a big card for us and a great reason to play White. I would estimate it is about the same power level as Red Blasts as a SB card and I think you should play 4 of them if you are White. It is great against Combo decks because it shuts down their cantrips. You often lost games after stripping their hand with Thoughtseize and Therapy to a topdecked Brainstorm. Clocking them for 3 is important, too, of course. I'd side it in against RUG too, it can trade with Mongoose and I don't care if they Bolt it. Against UWx I wouldn't bring it in, in this matchup it is bad if our stuff gets killed without valueand they usually have too much removal to get them with something like Spirit. In the BUG matchup I'd bring it in too I think. It would be bad if they kept Decays in and get it with it but the upside of shutting down a suspended or cascaded Vision, Brainstorms and Jaces is too big to ignore.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Since it seems to be a big thing for Jund Depths, what does everyone think about The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in Nic Fit? Specifically over Phyrexian Tower?

The way I see, sure it removes a nifty two-land recursive loop with Volrath's Stronghold and doesn't produce mana, but it also adds a permanent tax-control element that still works with Explorer or Rector.

[Megadeus]

Considering we are giving then mana to be able to pay for it it seems meh

[FTW]

What do you guys think of playing Infest Stompy?


//Creatures: 21
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Loxodon Smiter
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Grave Titan
1 Sun Titan

//Spells: 15
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Drown in Filth
1 Pernicious Deed

//Planeswalker: 1
Garruk Relentless

//Lands: 23
Volrath's Stronghold
Karakas
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Phyrexian Tower
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Forest


Infest backed by discard and some fat seems good.

[pettdan]

@SpeedOfDark & Tao
I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it but I couldn't stop thinking of the deck, it looks very promising to me. Here is how I would probably start out playing it (lacking a Savannah, a Verdant Catacombs and probably the Thoughtseizes, that's why):

Maindeck: (61)
Creatures: (15)
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Academy Rector (replacing a Deed)
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Acidic Slime
1 Gaddock Teeg

Sorceries: (13)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize

Instants: (2)
2 Abrupt Decay

Enchantments: (4)
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Pernicious Deed

Artifacts: (5)
2 Batterskull
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalkers: (1)
1 Liliana of the Veil

Lands: 21
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold



Sideboard:

SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Moat
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 2 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Rest in Peace


A couple of spots need consideration. The Strangleroot doesn't really seem necessary. I changed one into a Liliana, will try one Strangleroot and then perhaps switch to a second Liliana. Acidic Slime could be a Primeval Titan too, but hopefully Sigarda is enough (with plenty of Batterskull backup) and some land destruction feels good.

The sideboard looks promising too, since the maindeck already has sweepers and extra discard there is a lot of room to play around. Just put something together.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

Tao, I don't know how often you frequent this thread, but if you see this, I'm wondering why the punishing fire nic fit list in the opening post has 61 cards. I'm playing pretty much the same list but I don't know what card to cut to make it 60 to fit in the third liliana. I've heard people defend having a 61st card but its something I'm not used to and would like to keep it to 60. I made a few changes from that list in the sideboard, mostly putting in 2 sakura tribe elders in there for one sided ramp against jace decks. So far I've liked it better then carpet of flowers. Whenever I play carpet my opponent starts to fetch a bunch of non-islands and I often end up deeding it away anyway at some point so I'm not impressed with the card. Tribe elder seems better than sylvan ranger.

[Tao]

Unless I am counting wrong the list has exactly 60 cards. I am also on the side of always playing 60 cards because I think it is an easy optimization.

Playing Tribe-Elder over Sylvan Ranger is fine. I prefer the admittedly very small 2 for 1 over the ramp but it is really not a big difference. If you have more SB space that you use to fight Miracle decks or control-oriented Stoneblade in your meta I would suggest maybe a second Thrun. He is a nice GSZ target but he is even better (because of being one turn faster and uncounterable) when you draw him naturally.

I had the same experiences with Carpet of Flowers. It is insane in theory but in actual testing it was usually mediocre (except against Canadian where it is the best card available). Opponents playing around it or me being forced to kill it with Deed happened far more often than I expected so I cut it.

[Nitrospira]

Hey all,
I'm looking for a new deck, and Nic Fit has interested me for a while. I'm working on the two following lists (both basically netdecked):

Junk Fit:
1 Deranged Hermit
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wickerbough Elder
Creatures [16]
2 Liliana of the Veil
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thoughtseize
Spells [21]
3 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Windswept Heath
Lands [21]

Pros: Better top end, more easy GSZ targets, dryad arbor

or

Jund Fit:
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wickerbough Elder
Creatures [14]
2 Liliana of the Veil
Planeswalkers [2]
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Punishing Fire
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize
Spells [25]
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Forest (246)
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Mountain (242)
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp (238)
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
Lands [19]


Pros: Punishing Fire combo (makes Liliana +1 less painful too), Huntmaster, Innocent Blood for opposing fatties

With all the Mystics and Delvers in the current meta, I think that Jund might be a safer pick. However, going over the top with Titans also seems like a good way to outclass those shrimps.
Thoughts/opinions?

[SpeedOfDark]

@pettdan & @Tao:
1. Diabolic intent seems interesting. Not sure if its what I want, but if it fits in any build its definitely a creature heavy one like this, so I will probably have to try it.

2. I have singleton fleshbag and shreikmaw in the list because of a few cute interactions, namely:
- shreikmaw/fleshbag + volrath = recurring removal
- fleshbag + explorer/geist/finks = edict + utility + extra body (also fleshbag is excellent vs TNN and show and tell)
- shreikmaw is usually evoked as a terror, but can also easily be hardcast as a (usually) unblockable threat for 5 mana.
Although to be honest, these are kind of pet cards of mine so I may be overvaluing them.

I think I will probably try this configuration first:

-1 shreikmaw
-1 fleshbag
-1 finks
-1 grave titan
+1 abrupt decay
+1 recurring nightmare
+1 top
+1 primeval titan

3. For sideboard, I think I'll try something like this (work in progress):
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Headhunter
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Abrupt Decay

I have 5 thoughtseize, but 4 are being used by a friend and I have no liliana's. If I can borrow some of these, I will make these changes:

-1 headhunter
-1 gaddock teeg
-1 inquisition of kozilek
+2 liliana
+1 thoughtseize

Just for discussion's sake, this is another spicy Nic Fit list I was messing with (still in brainstorming stage):

---creatures---
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

---artifacts---
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Argentum Armor

---discard---
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize

---other spells---
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bitterblossom
2 Lingering Souls
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

---lands---
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains

In this list the argentum armor plays the role of finisher instead of a titan. With so many creatures and creature token generators, any equipment should really be able to help you end a game, but the argentum is the one that screams "deal with me now, or I'm gonna mess you up to the point of no return."

[HSCK]

So I saw a really interesting list in the Legacy Daily event from Saturday and was wondering if anyone else was working with Blue or if that's a discussion for another thread?

[EpicLevelCommoner]

So I saw a really interesting list in the Legacy Daily event from Saturday and was wondering if anyone else was working with Blue or if that's a discussion for another thread?

Link? I'm running a classic BG Nic Fit with a "splash" of U for Brainstorm and Jace 2.0.

Also, as far as Carpet of Flowers is concerned, would Search for Tomorrow be an acceptable substitute?

[Tao]

List is here, from Fizzeler, 3-1:

https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6683869

For blue in general Birthing Pod is very popular at the moment because blue gives you Baleful Strix, Phantasmal Image and Glen Elendra Archmage that go well with it.

For Non-Pod blue I tested a lot with Jace BUG. Blue gives you Jace and Brainstorm as extremely strong cards. Both cards fit the deck very well. Brainstorm is powerful in general and in Nic Fit the filtering is even stronger because the deck plays situational cards like Deed, Decay, Therapy and Explorer. Jace is imo the best "big" spell available for Nic Fit in all colors.

About the list I don't like that he plays Coiling Oracle. It seems not good enough in general, but it looks just bad when you have Baleful Strix as an alternative (and he runs only 1 more green than black mana so that's no reason for Oracle either). I would also like to see more removal, just 2 Decays and 1 Deed seems like too little. Edric and Damia both look awful.

[MrShine]

List is here, from Fizzeler, 3-1:

https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6683869

For blue in general Birthing Pod is very popular at the moment because blue gives you Baleful Strix, Phantasmal Image and Glen Elendra Archmage that go well with it.

For Non-Pod blue I tested a lot with Jace BUG. Blue gives you Jace and Brainstorm as extremely strong cards. Both cards fit the deck very well. Brainstorm is powerful in general and in Nic Fit the filtering is even stronger because the deck plays situational cards like Deed, Decay, Therapy and Explorer. Jace is imo the best "big" spell available for Nic Fit in all colors.

About the list I don't like that he plays Coiling Oracle. It seems not good enough in general, but it looks just bad when you have Baleful Strix as an alternative (and he runs only 1 more green than black mana so that's no reason for Oracle either). I would also like to see more removal, just 2 Decays and 1 Deed seems like too little. Edric and Damia both look awful.


In your opinion as a long-time NicFit player, is it worth going BUG without Pod? I dislike how you have to run a bunch of marginal creatures to start getting value out of 'Pod. I'm of a mind to run more removal (3 Decay / 2 Deed minimum) and top out with planeswalkers instead. Like you said, Brainstorm is really valuable in this kind of deck, and Jace is an excellent finisher when paired with board control in Deed. Not that it hasn't been done before.


So my question is: Is Pod really the best version of BUG?

[Razorwynd]

List is here, from Fizzeler, 3-1:

https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6683869


About the list I don't like that he plays Coiling Oracle. It seems not good enough in general, but it looks just bad when you have Baleful Strix as an alternative (and he runs only 1 more green than black mana so that's no reason for Oracle either). I would also like to see more removal, just 2 Decays and 1 Deed seems like too little. Edric and Damia both look awful.

you can GSZ for either a card or a land drop with oracle

[KntrellCL]

This is my final list of Junk Pod.

Lands [22]

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower


Creatures [22]

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Restoration Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Spells [16]

3 Birthing Pod
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte


Dryad Arbor count as a land but it is a "cmc 1" 1/1. So 22 lands (7 basics, a lot of fetchs) with 4 GSZ, 3 DRS, 4 Veteran Explorer would help me for explosives starts. My last cut (the 61 card) was Scavenging Ooze, since DRS can do a similar Job were Ooze is a MVP and move it to the SB.

On my CMC2, SFM package helps me out against tempo and this deck list has good carriers like sigarda, restoration angel and thrun. Voice of Resurgence is still on test, but has shown a good perfomance making opponents playing around its hability and is a nice trade for Pod. Teeg + 4 GSZ gives me a chance against combo.

CMC3... I truly believe Kitchen finks is my weakest card on the deck... but persist is a very good mechaninc with pod and doesnt make me to fetch a witness or harmonic when I do not have to... Harmonic Sliver used to be a Qasali, but it used the same amount of mana with GSZ (2G + 1 against 3G and keep a body for trade).

CMC4... Linvala being a 3/4 and a cmc4 has made a lot of progress to dodge decay and bolts... still getting Plow'd but nothing I can do about it... it shut down Mother of ruins, SFM, and specially... opposing DRS. Thrun is another beater good with equipments... sorry he doesnt have evasion but still pretty strong. Restoration Angel (also a 3/4 CMC4) can take down PWs, is another good carrier and does a lot of combat tricks...

CMC5... I cut off Grave titan since he can get plow'd and has no evasion on this TNN infested metagame... so I put back Sigarda making my curve lower and another flyer beater good with equipments... finally, thragtusk and shriekmaw are just value cards... baits for removal and good restoration angel targets.


Spells....

I like to keep it simple... I used to play BGx Nic Fit with Pernicious deed, Recurring Nightmare, Diabolic Intent, Swords to Plowshares etc... but I was just tired of my Tempo MU with pierce, daze, fow, stifle meanwhile I was getting beat by goyf, delver, stalkers, etc.... I just love decay and dont like to ask permisson... 4 Cabal Therapy (Core engine) some equipments and 4 GSZ to make it consistently...


Birthing Pod is hard to deal with since its a 4 drop and can make any bad top deck into a good one.... trading a veteran explorer into SFM is just nuts... then put a Bskull, trade SFM for finks and keep going... I like it a lot.


Has anyone here tried Spike feeder + Archangel of Thune combo? Im thinking cutting off Kitchen finks for Feeder and just put an Archangel... it has sinergy with DRS, Jitte, Bskull and thragtusk... so its not bad on its own....


I would be more than glad to receive any constructive comentary or advice.

[Tao]

you can GSZ for either a card or a land drop with oracle

You have about 30% chance to hit the land with Oracle so you can't count it as a mana target for GSZ. Damia seems bad in almost every matchup. Against agressive decks and combo she is too expensive and against UW control decks she will just get Sworded. The only matchups in which she has some potential are Jund and Shardless but I doubt that she is worth it. Edric might be a viable choice against Combo but against everything else he will almost never trigger.



In your opinion as a long-time NicFit player, is it worth going BUG without Pod? I dislike how you have to run a bunch of marginal creatures to start getting value out of 'Pod. I'm of a mind to run more removal (3 Decay / 2 Deed minimum) and top out with planeswalkers instead. Like you said, Brainstorm is really valuable in this kind of deck, and Jace is an excellent finisher when paired with board control in Deed. Not that it hasn't been done before.


So my question is: Is Pod really the best version of BUG?

I think BUG without Pod is worth it. I would run 3 Decay / 3 Deed minimum. I personally would run 4 Jace TMS because he is a key card and if he resolves and survies you can use his ability to shuffle him away (and if he doesn't, then you are glad to have more copies of him).

[Fizzeler]

You have about 30% chance to hit the land with Oracle so you can't count it as a mana target for GSZ. Damia seems bad in almost every matchup. Against agressive decks and combo she is too expensive and against UW control decks she will just get Sworded. The only matchups in which she has some potential are Jund and Shardless but I doubt that she is worth it. Edric might be a viable choice against Combo but against everything else he will almost never trigger.


I'll explain, the only reason I was running Oracle was because I could GSZ for it, and its Draw effect sometimes ramps you, but mainly that I can GSZ for it if needed. Damia can be any number of 5-7 Drops that you can GSZ for and win the game just tested her because the spot is flexible. That said I was able to cast her vs several aggressive decks and also blow up deed for 8

Edric overperformed he on average draws around 2-4 cards per game and gives your opponent the "kill this or lose" scenario, if they kill it, that is one less removal spell pointed towards my higher CMC threats

[Jaredar]

So I've decided to buy into Legacy with this deck, I just want to make sure the list is as good as I can get it. Here's what I have:

Creatures [18]:

1 Academy Rector
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Primeval Titan
1 Restoration Angel
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Tragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer

Enchantments [5]

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Rule of Law

Planeswalkers [1]
1 Garruk Relentless

Instants/Sorceries [15]
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Lingering Souls

Lands [21]

2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:

2 Pithing Needle
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Choke
2 Golgari Charm
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize

I've been thinking about finding a way to fit Thurn into it, been thinking about cutting kitchen finks for it but I like having good resto angel targets. I also don't know how viable a maindeck Rule of Law is. I wanna help my game 1s against combo as much as possible though. Input is appreciated.

[pfiremc13]

This is my final list of Junk Pod.

Lands [22]

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower


Creatures [22]

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Restoration Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Spells [16]

3 Birthing Pod
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

I like this deck.


Voice of Resurgence is still on test, but has shown a good perfomance making opponents playing around its hability and is a nice trade for Pod.

You can test it, but I think Arianrhod tested it a while back and didn't like it. I don't think you'll have enough creatures out at one time for it to be useful.


CMC5... I cut off Grave titan since he can get plow'd and has no evasion on this TNN infested metagame... so I put back Sigarda making my curve lower and another flyer beater good with equipments... finally, thragtusk and shriekmaw are just value cards... baits for removal and good restoration angel targets.

The only problem I can see with this is having trouble actually winning. Junk lists usually play sigarda and 6-drops.


Has anyone here tried Spike feeder + Archangel of Thune combo? Im thinking cutting off Kitchen finks for Feeder and just put an Archangel... it has sinergy with DRS, Jitte, Bskull and thragtusk... so its not bad on its own....

Yes, the combo is quite useful. I agree with you that the pieces are also useful without the combo. But cutting kitchen finks is probably not a good idea since it's a value creature and great against aggro and tempo. You need a lot of creatures to pod out of as well, and kitchen finks is great for that.

[pfiremc13]

Using meta info from mtgtop8.com, I calculated that the average legacy deck has about 6.4 maindeck cards that draw cards. I think Tao is right about Spirit of the Labyrinth: it is quite maindeckable and powerful (especially vs. combo).

[Nitrospira]

Using meta info from mtgtop8.com, I calculated that the average legacy deck has about 6.4 maindeck cards that draw cards. I think Tao is right about Spirit of the Labyrinth: it is quite maindeckable and powerful (especially vs. combo).
Judging by the results from the Maverick forum, SotL has been very underwhelming in actual testing. It has a huge target on its head, and can't attack without equipment if the opponent has any creature in play. Basically, 1 toughness bites.

However, this is not Maverick. I think SotL would more likely to survive in a Nic Fit deck, due to all the discard. On the other hand, it really is more of a prison/tax card which doesn't fit the general Nic Fit plan of dropping fatties.

[KntrellCL]

its probably more of a sideboad card than a main deck card.

[Tao]

Imo SotL is a pure SB card for Nic Fit. This is pure theorycrafting but I think there are two reasons why it works better in Nic Fit than in Maverick, at least against Combo decks.

The first is that we often don't have a clock at all while Maverick usually starts with something like Hierarch into Thalia and has a clock anyway. So in the combo matchup this is a big improvement for us while it is just another bear for Maverick.

The second reason is that we use Discard while Maverick uses other Hatebears and Wastelands. Cantrips like Brainstorm are good but they get even better after our Therapy/Thoughtseize Discard because they help the opponent find the taken pieces again. But they are less good than usual when that cantrip gets taxed by Thalia, double Wasteland and/or stuff like Canonist or Mindcensor.

[pfiremc13]

Imo it's a good thing if you spirit gets killed. Nic fit has a lot of big bombs that need answers, and having your opponent waste a swords on your spirit is helpful. Bolt is a different story, but it isn't dead or anything against the rest of our deck.

[tons of fun]

Loook i really dont think spirit is not that good for nic fit period its a death and taxes card and maverik i just see it being a waste of a 2 drop

[MD.Ghost]

Hi everyone, i will play Nic Fit at GP Paris and a little bit undecided which version I will run – Punishing Fire or Scapeshift – both have advantages and disadvantages.

Brewing about the details with “Ralf” over the last week. He gave me a good insight about the Scape-Build.

I want to ask some other players, why nobody (so it seems for Scapeshift) run Needles as a sideboard. Sure you can’t wish for it, but with Depths-Combo, Sneak Attack, Vial Decks and even Jace running around this card can shut them down pretty good. Sometimes it gets harmed from our deed, but against certain combo decks deed is switched for sideboard cards. As a one mana investment it can buy enough time to ramp into more game breaking stuff like Slaughter Games.

Ralf also mentioned, that Carpet isn’t as useful in the current meta, so maybe it can be replaced.

For a Scapeshift build my current test sideboard looks like:

1 Thoughtseize (2 Main)
1 Cabal Therapy (Wish for Sac and Discard)
1 Pyroclasm (creature swarms like elves)
1 Toxic Deluge (creature swarms, TNN or Teeg+Mother)
1 Massacre (against UWR or D&T)
1 Slaughter Games (2 Main)
1 Scapeshift (Wishtarget, 2 Main)
1 Maelstrom Pulse (catch all)
2 Innocent Blood (like it against Tempo and “big ones”, you can keep one as a Wishtarget)
3 Red Elemental Blast (Counter against all the blue stuff and important if Show&Tell run Leyline against Discard)
2 Pithing Needle (Sneak Attack, Depths-Thespian, Planeswalker, Loam-Waste etc.)

My current Punishing sideboard looks like:

3 Red Elemental Blast (most of the time only need 3)
3 Slaughter Games (added one more, because it won several games)
2 Golgari Charms (flex hate against Swarms, Elves, D&T, Sneak Attack etc.)
2 Pithing Needle (see above)
2 Surgical Extraction (Graveyard and Combohate)
1 Rakdos Charm (Graveyard, Combohate and something more against Equipment, Vials etc. – flex slot)
1 Thoughtseize (2 Main, enough discard is needed against combo)
1 Deathrite Shaman (1 Main, additional Graveyard hate, also good against Tempo decks, flexible enough to provide some “ramp”)

What do you think about the cards and the GP meta?

[venice]

Hi everyone, i will play Nic Fit at GP Paris and a little bit undecided which version I will run – Punishing Fire or Scapeshift – both have advantages and disadvantages.

Brewing about the details with “Ralf” over the last week. He gave me a good insight about the Scape-Build.

I want to ask some other players, why nobody (so it seems for Scapeshift) run Needles as a sideboard. Sure you can’t wish for it, but with Depths-Combo, Sneak Attack, Vial Decks and even Jace running around this card can shut them down pretty good. Sometimes it gets harmed from our deed, but against certain combo decks deed is switched for sideboard cards. As a one mana investment it can buy enough time to ramp into more game breaking stuff like Slaughter Games.

Ralf also mentioned, that Carpet isn’t as useful in the current meta, so maybe it can be replaced.

For a Scapeshift build my current test sideboard looks like:

1 Thoughtseize (2 Main)
1 Cabal Therapy (Wish for Sac and Discard)
1 Pyroclasm (creature swarms like elves)
1 Toxic Deluge (creature swarms, TNN or Teeg+Mother)
1 Massacre (against UWR or D&T)
1 Slaughter Games (2 Main)
1 Scapeshift (Wishtarget, 2 Main)
1 Maelstrom Pulse (catch all)
2 Innocent Blood (like it against Tempo and “big ones”, you can keep one as a Wishtarget)
3 Red Elemental Blast (Counter against all the blue stuff and important if Show&Tell run Leyline against Discard)
2 Pithing Needle (Sneak Attack, Depths-Thespian, Planeswalker, Loam-Waste etc.)

My current Punishing sideboard looks like:

3 Red Elemental Blast (most of the time only need 3)
3 Slaughter Games (added one more, because it won several games)
2 Golgari Charms (flex hate against Swarms, Elves, D&T, Sneak Attack etc.)
2 Pithing Needle (see above)
2 Surgical Extraction (Graveyard and Combohate)
1 Rakdos Charm (Graveyard, Combohate and something more against Equipment, Vials etc. – flex slot)
1 Thoughtseize (2 Main, enough discard is needed against combo)
1 Deathrite Shaman (1 Main, additional Graveyard hate, also good against Tempo decks, flexible enough to provide some “ramp”)

What do you think about the cards and the GP meta?

Personally, I would go with the Punishing Fire List. As for the SB question: I would definitely run Needles, most likely even as a 3of since they have such a broad application right now, just like you mentioned. Also, to have better game against Decks like Sneak Show, Reanimator, Dredge and Depths,dec I would go for a Crop Rotation package. (You know how well that worked for me in my Elves list, so I see no reason not to put in here aswell :wink:)
I would play something like:

3 Pithing Needle
3 Slaughter Games
2 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Golgari Charm

Deathrite Shaman #2 is definitely a mainboard slot for me, either as the 61st card or in exchange for Witness #2. Personally I would go for the 61st card, just to put the 3rd TS into the maindeck as well, over the 2nd Witness.

Looking forward to see you in Paris! Since we both have our 2 Byes maybe we can meet up for breakfast or sth like that. :smile:

[conboy31]

The spirit does give white some momentum. I am curious if and when that 4/4 flying destroy all other creatures at 4bw is legal. It seems like it could be better than sun titan and maybe even grave titan, though they are vastly different. In this shell gsz seems bad which might open the door for 3 or 4 liliana/sfm/lingering souls. The deck starts to take on a much different look.

[Nitrospira]

The spirit does give white some momentum. I am curious if and when that 4/4 flying destroy all other creatures at 4bw is legal. It seems like it could be better than sun titan and maybe even grave titan, though they are vastly different. In this shell gsz seems bad which might open the door for 3 or 4 liliana/sfm/lingering souls. The deck starts to take on a much different look.

what creature is this? I can't find anything that fits that description

[conboy31]

what creature is this? I can't find anything that fits that description


Magister of Worth. Was in a few born of the gods release packs across the world.

[pettdan]

Magister of Worth. Was in a few born of the gods release packs across the world.

There is already a similar somewhat worse card in Sunblast Angel which doesn't see much play, I've considered but never tried it. Of course you should try it if you want to, but it seems like Sun Titan can achieve a similar effect (by returning a Deed) and has a lot of flexibility by being able to return other cards and even multiple times.

[Nitrospira]

There is already a similar somewhat worse card in Sunblast Angel which doesn't see much play, I've considered but never tried it. Of course you should try it if you want to, but it seems like Sun Titan can achieve a similar effect (by returning a Deed) and has a lot of flexibility by being able to return other cards and even multiple times.

one nice thing about Magister over Sun Titan or Sunblast Angel is that it trumps Show and Tell into Emrakul (it doesn't beat S&T into Griselbrand, but what does?). Although Nic Fit's preventative measures should keep S&T off their combo

[somethingdotdotdot]

I've been playing around with a junk nic-fit list that's a more junk-ish than nic-fit. However, it still utilizes veteran explorers so I think that it belongs here instead of the junk thread.

3 Veteran Explorer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Toxic Deluge

3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
1 Dust Bowl
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist

The 3-3 split of deathrite/explorers is a concession to esperblade, miracles and other jace decks that have enough basics to make explorer symmetrical. The deck's curve is also a lot lower than usual because I often felt that the deck was super clunky--either you drew into too much acceleration or too much action. Knight makes the sneak show matchups a lot better postboard along a clock provided by SoL.

[Svknoe]

I will play at GP Paris as well. I intend to play BUG Pod. Scapewish is also a consideration, but I fear that there will be too much combo for that.

[helghast101]

Land: 22
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest

Critters: 20
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman

1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Wall of Blossoms

1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver

1 Restoration Angel
1 Academy Rector

1 Shriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

1 Grave Titan
1 Sun Titan

Non-Critters: 19
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Birthing Pod

Side: 15
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Duress
3 Pithing Needle
2 Golgari Charm
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke

What I might be making/playing for star city detroit. It's between this, merfolk, d/t, affinity. Basically the 900$ or less decks. Trying to decide on a good sideboard for an unknown meta. any thoughts are appreciated.

[Blastoderm]

@helghast

I'm pretty sure you can cut 2x pernicious deed. You probably also need the 4th pod to increase consistency as you always want one (especially if the first gets FoWed or pierced). You also need a 2 drop that you want to pod into with the intention to pod into a 3 drop. You can consider 1 wall of blossoms or 1 strangleroot geist. Thrun is pretty weak. I'd move him to the sb and put restoration angel in his place. Other creatures that I've been having success with are shriekmaw and bone shredder.

[Alexeezay]

& you definitely want Orzhov Pontiff! It's pretty good vs Elves (which is a bad matchup) and wipes the board with -2/-2. I would also splash it in BUG Pod.

How did you guys like your MD Slaughter Games in Scapeshift? Or do you just play Thoughtseize/Abrupt Decay in its place?
What about Headhunter in the SB vs Control or Combo? Anyone got experience with Riptide Pilferers so there's a reference?

[MrShine]

@Helghast- you're updated list looks pretty good. I wouldn't drop below 3 deed in a delver / dnt / elves heavy meta, it's crazy good. Coupled with 4 abrupt decay and you ensure dominance of the board. I agree that Pontiff could be neat, gets the dnt critters, TNN, and most of the elves; I might cut the Sakura for it. 2 mana to get a basic tapped is pretty lackluster when you could go for Explorer or GSZ into a shaman. And FWIW I think 3 pod is fine especially since you're runnin the full set of GSZ

[GtF]

If you wanted a more poddable creature that gets a land, you could try Sylvan Ranger. But you might not need it with the explorers anyway.
Riptide pilferer has been good in the blue version. Part of its utility is that it can be pitched to force of will. Without force, more immediate hand disruption might be better, like extra thoughtseizes.
Orzhov Pontiff seems great, it's the biggest draw to even playing white imo.

[Blastoderm]

@helghast

Your sideboard needs some work.

Try some Ethersworn Cannonist (2?), Thoughtseize instead of duress and spirit of the labyrinth. You can also consider some number of thalia.

Spirit is pretty important in the sneak and show matchup as it shuts off griselbrand and their cantrips. Thoughtseize can hit creatures as well.

[GtF]

Bug pod gets 10th at gp Paris!
Svknoe I assume this was you. If so congratulations. I really like the sb venser. A tourney report would be awesome. :cool:

[Moroklumpen]

It was Svknoe all right. =) Good job!

[Megadeus]

Congrats man. You seem to defy how I feel about the deck and its inconsistencies

[conboy31]

10th place decklist can be seen here: https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gppar14/welcome#0
I like how the deck runs a single 6 drop instead of 2 or even 3 which might even have a fierce empath.

The lack of any spirit of the labyrinths in the top 16 gives a little evidence that it might not be a strong enough card to put a junk version of nic fit back on the map.

[Megadeus]

Either that or players haven't properly tested it. I don't think it is actually that amazing. It's fine. Nothing earth shattering

[Svknoe]

Yes, I got 10th. Hurrah! Thank you all. I played 12-2-1 without any byes, and missed top 8 on tie breakers.

5-0-1 on day 2. I could have chosen a more aggressive line versus Death and Taxes and spared myself of the draw. I think that the deck is good. As for the side board Venser, I played in one trial on site and lost 0-2 to Jund Depths the first round. Some people at the tournament said that they expected a lot of it at the GP, and I didn't really think that I could win that match up. I have been shifting between Ætherling and Notion Thief in the last side board slot. Neither of them are essential, so that seemed like the natural cut for Venser. As for my worst match ups, I faced Elves on day 1, winning 2-0. I faced them again on day two, winning 2-1. I eventually also faced the dreaded Jund Depths later on day 2, winning 2-0. I used Pod to get Acidic Slime forcing him to combo in my main phase so that I could Sower of Temptation the token, winning.

I will try to compose a list of all of the match-ups shortly. I have been borderline sick all weekend, so a tournament report may take a few days.

[jbone2016]

Yes, I got 10th. Hurrah! Thank you all. I played 12-2-1 without any byes, and missed top 8 on tie breakers.

5-0-1 on day 2. I could have chosen a more aggressive line versus Death and Taxes and spared myself of the draw. I think that the deck is good. As for the side board Venser, I played in one trial on site and lost 0-2 to Jund Depths the first round. Some people at the tournament said that they expected a lot of it at the GP, and I didn't really think that I could win that match up. I have been shifting between Ætherling and Notion Thief in the last side board slot. Neither of them are essential, so that seemed like the natural cut for Venser. As for my worst match ups, I faced Elves on day 1, winning 2-0. I faced them again on day two, winning 2-1. I eventually also faced the dreaded Jund Depths later on day 2, winning 2-0. I used Pod to get Acidic Slime forcing him to combo in my main phase so that I could Sower of Temptation the token, winning.

I will try to compose a list of all of the match-ups shortly. I have been borderline sick all weekend, so a tournament report may take a few days.

Awesome job!

[Megadeus]

Yes, I got 10th. Hurrah! Thank you all. I played 12-2-1 without any byes, and missed top 8 on tie breakers.

5-0-1 on day 2. I could have chosen a more aggressive line versus Death and Taxes and spared myself of the draw. I think that the deck is good. As for the side board Venser, I played in one trial on site and lost 0-2 to Jund Depths the first round. Some people at the tournament said that they expected a lot of it at the GP, and I didn't really think that I could win that match up. I have been shifting between Ætherling and Notion Thief in the last side board slot. Neither of them are essential, so that seemed like the natural cut for Venser. As for my worst match ups, I faced Elves on day 1, winning 2-0. I faced them again on day two, winning 2-1. I eventually also faced the dreaded Jund Depths later on day 2, winning 2-0. I used Pod to get Acidic Slime forcing him to combo in my main phase so that I could Sower of Temptation the token, winning.

I will try to compose a list of all of the match-ups shortly. I have been borderline sick all weekend, so a tournament report may take a few days.

Sick. Venser actually does seem like a fairly reasonable answer to Lage. Never thought of that.

[Fizzeler]

Svknoe congrats on the finish!

Only question is why no Exarchs? (and I personally would run Deadeye somewhere maybe over Venser)

I updated my BUG Control list based on some testing and theorycrafting, mainly adding a second Deed to the main (possibly may even go up to 3) and a Scavenging Ooze. These replaced Glen-Elendra and Top respectively.

Damia continues to be sweet, although borderline on cutting her for Deadeye or Aetherling

[Svknoe]

Exarch might be playable. I have not tried it. I seems very bad to draw it without a pod, though. I am reluctant to play too many creatures that are outright bad by themselves.

[Cire_dk]

First of all @SVKnoe congratulations on the great finish. I played several versions of Nic Fit and never really liked the POD versions. But looking at your list I am getting very excited about it and will start testing with it again. How usefull was the extra Glen Elendra in the sideboard and how effective where the pilferers.
Anything you would change after such a great result?
Compared to other nic fit decks is it hard to play?

I am looking forward to you report so get well soon ;-)

[Svknoe]

The extra Glen Elendra is Very useful. Glen Elendra is good against combo and is one of out primary trumps against miracles. If you can stop the next two entreats or terminus, you are in great shape. Watch out for swords, counter, persist trigger, terminus in response. I don't know if combo is capable of dealing with a supported, active archmage. I think that the Pilferers are needed for the storm and show and tell match ups. I am looking to find a way to fit in the fourth Deathrite. It seems like a mistake to not play 4. GSZ and the fourth Explorer are the only cards of similar function that it is possible to cut. I want Explorer early, but I generally don't like drawing 2. Wood Elves is the worst card in the deck. It isn't very bad, but some good three drop could certainly replace it. It's functionality is sometimes needed, but it is still a little bit on the weak side.

Pod opens up a tremendous amount of lines of play. Almost all board states are solvable. The board often looks very bad, but it can be fixed with the correct line. Because you have so many options I think it is more difficult to play than the other Nic Fit decks. The other decks that I have played in tournaments is some Rector and mostly Scapeshift. I have tested some Punishing Fit as well.

My match ups were:

Day 1: BUG Delver, Reanimator, Miracles (loss), Jund, Elves, Death and Taxes, BUG Delver, TNN Bant (loss) and one deck I can't recall
Day 2: Death and Taxes (draw), Elves, UWR Delver, Jund Depths, Sneak and Show, Merfolk

[GtF]

The extra Glen Elendra is Very useful. Glen Elendra is good against combo and is one of out primary trumps against miracles. If you can stop the next two entreats or terminus, you are in great shape. Watch out for swords, counter, persist trigger, terminus in response. I don't know if combo is capable of dealing with a supported, active archmage. I think that the Pilferers are needed for the storm and show and tell match ups. I am looking to find a way to fit in the fourth Deathrite. It seems like a mistake to not play 4. GSZ and the fourth Explorer are the only cards of similar function that it is possible to cut. I want Explorer early, but I generally don't like drawing 2. Wood Elves is the worst card in the deck. It isn't very bad, but some good three drop could certainly replace it. It's functionality is sometimes needed, but it is still a little bit on the weak side.

Pod opens up a tremendous amount of lines of play. Almost all board states are solvable. The board often looks very bad, but it can be fixed with the correct line. Because you have so many options I think it is more difficult to play than the other Nic Fit decks. The other decks that I have played in tournaments is some Rector and mostly Scapeshift. I have tested some Punishing Fit as well.

My match ups were:

Day 1: BUG Delver, Reanimator, Miracles (loss), Jund, Elves, Death and Taxes, BUG Delver, TNN Bant (loss) and one deck I can't recall
Day 2: Death and Taxes (draw), Elves, UWR Delver, Jund Depths, Sneak and Show, Merfolk


Very nice, I see you beat a wide swath of decks over the weekend. How important was golgari charm for beating elves/DnT?
We've been testing out Fleshbag Marauder as a 3 drop over here and it's been decent. It's another way to kill true name nemesis and another sacrifice outlet for veteran explorer, which is pretty cool. I've also briefly tried out 4 deathrites and 3 veteran explorers because of what you said (drawing 2 is not great). It worked alright, though I only tried it for a four round tournament.

[wsurugby10]

The extra Glen Elendra is Very useful. Glen Elendra is good against combo and is one of out primary trumps against miracles. If you can stop the next two entreats or terminus, you are in great shape. Watch out for swords, counter, persist trigger, terminus in response. I don't know if combo is capable of dealing with a supported, active archmage. I think that the Pilferers are needed for the storm and show and tell match ups. I am looking to find a way to fit in the fourth Deathrite. It seems like a mistake to not play 4. GSZ and the fourth Explorer are the only cards of similar function that it is possible to cut. I want Explorer early, but I generally don't like drawing 2. Wood Elves is the worst card in the deck. It isn't very bad, but some good three drop could certainly replace it. It's functionality is sometimes needed, but it is still a little bit on the weak side.

Pod opens up a tremendous amount of lines of play. Almost all board states are solvable. The board often looks very bad, but it can be fixed with the correct line. Because you have so many options I think it is more difficult to play than the other Nic Fit decks. The other decks that I have played in tournaments is some Rector and mostly Scapeshift. I have tested some Punishing Fit as well.

My match ups were:

Day 1: BUG Delver, Reanimator, Miracles (loss), Jund, Elves, Death and Taxes, BUG Delver, TNN Bant (loss) and one deck I can't recall
Day 2: Death and Taxes (draw), Elves, UWR Delver, Jund Depths, Sneak and Show, Merfolk

I'd love to see your Sideboard Strategy. Is there one coming by chance?

[Svknoe]

Very nice, I see you beat a wide swath of decks over the weekend. How important was golgari charm for beating elves/DnT?
We've been testing out Fleshbag Marauder as a 3 drop over here and it's been decent. It's another way to kill true name nemesis and another sacrifice outlet for veteran explorer, which is pretty cool. I've also briefly tried out 4 deathrites and 3 veteran explorers because of what you said (drawing 2 is not great). It worked alright, though I only tried it for a four round tournament.

I sided it in against those decks. I think that I got an easy 2 for 1 with with it once. Death and Taxes seems very favorable regardless. I did not draw it against Elves, and somehow won regardless. I can't imagine it not being good. Deathrite and Nettle are a little annoying. I think that it is also fine versus TNN decks. Those are generally favourable too, though.

I have not tried Fleshbag Marauder. It seems interesting. I have one main concern. If it is your only creature while you have a Pod, you are not getting anywhere. I want all of my creatures to both be good with Pod and be fine without it. It is a fairly common scenario that I have a Pod, but no creatures. If I draw a creature, I will most likely win. Fleshbag Marauder is quite horrible to draw then. It may still be the best card for the slot. I'll try it out.

I have no written notes for sideboarding. So far I have figured it out match by match. I should probably write something. If I do, I will share it.

In general I sideboard out Finks and all of the bad 4+ drops versus combo. All of the combo hate comes in, with the exception of Pilferers versus reanimator. If they are not combo, I generally side in Deed and Jitte. Slime and Glen Elendra are very match up dependent, and are often sided out for one of those cards. I sometimes shave 1 Explorer, Strix or Cabal Therapy to make space. Versus miracles I side out as many explorers and therapies as I can. 7 in total is usual.

[Megadeus]

I sided it in against those decks. I think that I got an easy 2 for 1 with with it once. Death and Taxes seems very favorable regardless. I did not draw it against Elves, and somehow won regardless. I can't imagine it not being good. Deathrite and Nettle are a little annoying. I think that it is also fine versus TNN decks. Those are generally favourable too, though.

I have not tried Fleshbag Marauder. It seems interesting. I have one main concern. If it is your only creature while you have a Pod, you are not getting anywhere. I want all of my creatures to both be good with Pod and be fine without it. It is a fairly common scenario that I have a Pod, but no creatures. If I draw a creature, I will most likely win. Fleshbag Marauder is quite horrible to draw then. It may still be the best card for the slot. I'll try it out.

I have no written notes for sideboarding. So far I have figured it out match by match. I should probably write something. If I do, I will share it.

In general I sideboard out Finks and all of the bad 4+ drops versus combo. All of the combo hate comes in, with the exception of Pilferers versus reanimator. If they are not combo, I generally side in Deed and Jitte. Slime and Glen Elendra are very match up dependent, and are often sided out for one of those cards. I sometimes shave 1 Explorer, Strix or Cabal Therapy to make space. Versus miracles I side out as many explorers and therapies as I can. 7 in total is usual.

FWIW Fleshbag was extremely hit or miss when I played it. Probably not worth it unfortunately unless your meta is a bunch of Hexproof type men. Its fine vs Tempo. Dead vs Control, and kinda meh vs other normal midrange decks due to a lot of them running mana dorks

[MD.Ghost]

I also played at GP Paris – first of all, Congrats to Svknoe! Very nice run against a various field.

After my Success with Punishing Fit i trained with Scapeshift (thanks “Ralf “ for a lot of input!) as my GP choice (faster rounds, top deck combo wins, Slaughter Games against Miracle – they did well as I expected). Friday at the hotel room I got crushed 1:11 against a very good ANT player and decided (after a sleepless night..) to go “Back to Basic” and enter the GP with Punishing Fit. I have more experience with this, some real sideboard cards/boarding options and an overall better Combo Matchup (in theory – see above).

Short summary – GP Day 1
R1: Bye
R2: Bye
R3: 2:0 UWR Delver (Removal over Removal)
R4: 2:0 bUrg Tempo (crushed a german “Pro” with his secret "Bitterblossom Tech")
R5: 0:2 Omnitell (lost horrible against his god hands, mulligans never got me enough action here, also lost my spirit here...see above)
R6: 1:2 Dredge (G1 more than enough rounds, but never found deed or zenith/deathrite/ooze; G2 I got some hate; G3 Mull to 5 without good cards)
R7: 0:2 Elves (against Lukas Maurer – 2nd at GP Ghent - lost die roll and G 1 because I can’t activate deed, G2 he glimpsed away with an empty board the turn before I have Golgari Charm+Punishing online)
....dead
R8: 1:1 BUG Pod (really enjoyed this kind of mirror, Pithing Needle was very good here, at G3 I wasn’t focused enough with Punishing Fire to catch the Victory before Timeout)
R9: 2:0 UW Blade (Removal over Removal)

Total: 5-3-1

So reached the 419th place, lost all combo matchups really bad, multiple mulligan and without enough hate (never found a slaughter games, only get it against BUG Fit as i boarded a one off...)

Played the same list at Sunday sideevent:
R1: 0:2 vs Team America (G1 no removal vs Tombstalker+Delver and Explorer+Witness can’t race this…G2 missed the Rakdos Charm Play before he, Wasteland his own Dual to get his Tombstalker, no Lilianas or Livegain Creatures here…)
R2: 1:1 vs UWR Delver (can’t kill him fast enough G3, but Fleshbag was good enough here)
R3: 2:1 vs UB Tezz (10 Planeswalker vs me, hard grind but got him thanks too Deed, Decay and Fire)
R4: 0:2 vs ANT (G1 no interaction, G2 hard grind, he won with 1 life thanks to burning wish)
R5: 2:0 vs Team America (Removal over Removal)
R6: 2:1 vs Team America (a little bit unconcentrated G1, but got him G2+3 as expected)

My List:

//Lands
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Phyrexian Tower

//Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Primeval Titan
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Fleshbag Marauder

//Rest
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thoughtseize


//Sideboard
3 Slaughter Games
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Rakdos Charm

Really like the lines of play with Punishing Fit.

Fleshbag Marauder was good enough against the meta (see a lot of tempo and sneak show).

[Nithkar]

Is there any reason for you to play a fleshbag marauder instead of the 4th liliana?

Enviado de meu Nexus 4 usando Tapatalk

[MD.Ghost]

Is there any reason for you to play a fleshbag marauder instead of the 4th liliana?

Enviado de meu Nexus 4 usando Tapatalk

As i said:
-useable vs Show & Tell (Sneak Show + Reanimate)
-Spell Pierce proof (UWR often use a playset)
-can' t be hit from needle/revoker
-provides a 3/1 body, which can race delver, tnn, nimble, if you can sac another creature (explorer, witness, huntmaster token)
-good sac outlet for explorer (see above)

Liliana works on her own, but 3 are enough, because you didn't want to discard a spells (most of the time only punishing fire, which i reduced to 3 instead of 4). Liliana also needs double black. I never liked the playset Liliana and together with sensei you will see copies in most games.

It isn't a “liliana slot“, it works as an additional removal and is a flex slot for specific meta (lot of tempo and Sneak Show). As you can see, i cutted 1 pulse or 1 deed, which can also be played.

[Svknoe]

Too bad you didn't make day 2. I have also had a tough time beating combo with Punishing Fit.

In round three, I was playing against Miracles on your right. Your match somehow finished a while before mine, though. :P

[blindspotxxx]

Too bad you didn't make day 2. I have also had a tough time beating combo with Punishing Fit.

In round three, I was playing against Miracles on your right. Your match somehow finished a while before mine, though. :P

How does the deck fair against Miracles? How would you board against it? I'm not sure Veteran Explorers are good vs Miracles :)

[Svknoe]

How does the deck fair against Miracles? How would you board against it? I'm not sure Veteran Explorers are good vs Miracles :)

Miracles is hard. If you play well, I think that they are ever so slightly favoured. For boarding, veteran explorer is the worst card. They are good at playing off the top, and explorers are out, so cabal therapy is bad as well. My goal is to sideboard out as many as possible of those cards, and side in anything in the sideboard that is playable. Glen Elendra Archmage and Pod are our best cards. What I did last time was:

-4 Veteran Explorer
-3 Cabal Therapy

+2 Envelop
+1 Glen Elendra Archmage
+1 Pernicious Deed
+1 Golgari Charm
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Venser, Shaper Savant

[MD.Ghost]

@Svknoe: Thanks - sadly we don't crushed the field together at day two.

I will test your list, because it seems that blue has some interesting creatures to abuse with Pod.

Your plan against Miracles sounds solid, access to double Archmage seems very good.

Questions about your Sideboard:

How good is the random Jitte (no Stoneforge, no aggressive Creatures, online at turn 3 ? if you find it) – I know (as an elves player) that Jitte can be good, IF you disrupt enough to get it online. But Nic Fit seems not disruptive enough compared to Tempo decks.

Riptide Pilferer – I know it was discussed before and also adds a “Force Pitch” but if it comes online turn 2, you can only profit turn 3 (which seems kind of meh against Combo). No one fears a 1/1 “Beater”. Sure discard every turn isn’t so bad, but you need more disruption until the little Merfolk let you profit.

Is Vendilion Clique not a better Options? Also online turn 3, let you see the hand (nice because BUG Pod also use Counters) and with 3/1 a much better Beater/Clock. At worst you can Pod into Archmage/Venser.

Why Envelope over Swan Song? Against Elves (NO, Zenith, Glimpse) or Miracle (Terminus, Entreat) we also want Pernicious Deed which also kill the 2/2 Token. Swan Song can also counter Ad Nauseum, Sneak Attack or Miracle Stuff like Moat/Humillity.

I thought about to cut -3 Riptide and -1 Jitte (Envelope can be Swan Song or Flusterstorm etc. - but it isn’t the worst Spell) and add +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Vendillion Clique, which leaves to open Slots for additional Spells (more blue Stuff/Counters/+1 Fleshbag Marauder etc.).

Sample:
+1 Clique
+1 TS (2 total)
+1 Fleshbag/Clique (but I like Fleshbag as additional Tempo/Show&Tell/Creature hate – it is the Jitte Slot)
+3 Swan Song/Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce (if Envelope is also cutted)

Benefit is more earlier Disruption to get enough turns to develop the board and get real Stuff like Pod/Archmage/Venser/Clique online.

[civet five]

I had been running Uktabi Orangutan in the Wood Elves slot and have never regretted the switch. I've recently been testing out Clique in that slot and have liked it as well, but 1UU has been a little rough on the mana base and can really screw up some VE choices if its in your hand. Where my head's at now is that 1 of the Riptide Pilferers can become a Clique.



Sample:
+1 Clique
+1 TS (2 total)
+1 Fleshbag/Clique (but I like Fleshbag as additional Tempo/Show&Tell/Creature hate – it is the Jitte Slot)
+3 Swan Song/Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce (if Envelope is also cutted)

Benefit is more earlier Disruption to get enough turns to develop the board and get real Stuff like Pod/Archmage/Venser/Clique online.

I've considered Swan Song but still am running 2 Envelop, but if anything I would switch them to Negate. Swan Song isn't great in a deck like this because we cannot always ignore the token, so we're forced to expend resources to address it. All the while, the bad guy is still trying to combo-off again. Maybe I'm overreacting, but the typical play here is to get distracted and find a Strix while they filter with Ponders and Brainstorms, and then BOOM you're staring at Emrakul.

Negate's extra cost hasn't been as much of an issue other than not being available on turn1, and addresses the few weaknesses of Envelop - that it misses Sneak Attack, Ad Nauseum and Brainstorms.

[Brael]

Hi, first post here, and I'm fairly new to Legacy in general, I was interested in building the BUG Pod list since I like Pod and I already have most of the manabase from Modern. I was looking through possible cards and had a question about a couple of them. It seems to me like the core that makes this deck competitive is the whole Veteran Explorer/Cabal Therapy interaction (I've noticed the same thing with Young Pyromancer/Cabal Therapy making it's decks powerful). So I was looking for more ways to improve that interaction. I haven't really seen a whole lot when it comes to 1 cost guys worth sacrificing but I did come across the card Mask of the Mimic (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!mask+of+the+mimic&v=card&s=cname), it seems rather powerful in a deck that wants to generate a bunch of ETB/LTB triggers, and it functions as a counter of sorts against removal though it discourages 1 of's. Is this a reasonable card to try, or is it just asking to be blown out by FoW?

[Megadeus]

The problem with mask is that it wants you to be running decks with multiples of the same creature, and in this deck, a lot of the time the only creature that you run in multiples (especially in Pod lists) is Veteran Explorer and Deathrite Shaman. I do like the card though and would like to figure out a way to abuse it somehow elsewhere..

[pettdan]

An update of the status of my last posted decklist for Rock Nic Fit:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20983-Deck-Nic-Fit-%28GBx-Explorer-Zenith-Control%29&p=788044#post788044

--- Changes to the maindeck:
-1 Abrupt Decay, +1 Sensei's Divining Top
-1 Abrupt Decay, getting to 60 cards (not sure about this yet)
-1 Kichen Finks, +1 Courser of Kruphix (trying it out next time)

--- Changes to the sideboard:
-2 Carpet of Flowers
-1 Moat
-1 Ethersworn Canonist
-1 Chains of Mephistopheles
-1 Choke
+1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
+1 Engineered Plague
+2 Armageddon
+1 Thoughtseize/Inquisition
+1 Toxic Deluge


--- Comments on changes:
Running plenty of discard and sweepers late game topdecking becomes more imporant, that's why I upped to 4 SDT.

Abrupt Decay doesn't seem necessary, I mostly have it because I fear Chalice of the Void from MUD and to help against Counterbalance.

The Geddons are there to provide a better machtup (theorycrafting) against Cloudpost and Lands, while also very relevant vs any slow deck (Miracles) or any combodeck (with the addition of plenty of discard and Lilianas). The idea is to start out with some of the 8 discard, follow up with one of the 3 lilianas OR one of the cheapish creatures (finks, geist, courser, mystic or ooze) and then boom (!) Geddon. The Geddons are acting like Nether Void 4 and 5 I guess (counting Enlightened) but when I playtested a few games vs Cloudpost the Nether Void didn't help much. And since the geddon is very relevant vs a lot of other problematic decks (see above) I added two so far.

Canonist was mostly there for Storm and to some extent Elves (I just keep expecting Natural Order if I put Canonist into play) so I changed it into the eighth discard which is relevant in more matchups.

Night of Souls' betrayal is very relevant vs TNN, Snapcaster, Clique, Elspeth, Lingering Souls, Elves, Goblins, Pyromancer, Death and Taxes etc, and it kind of combos with the Humility which also has good synergy with the Batterskulls and the Ooze, all of which are tutorable (2 enlightened, 4 GSZ). The synergy is not why I chose the cards, I chose them because they are strong individually, and the synergy comes like an added bonus. There is some antisynergy with the persist creatures though. Still figuring it out.

So far I didn't need Sigarda much so she could probably be a Strangleroot Geist, Kitchen Finks or Courser of Kruphix. But I expect she'll prove her worth again before long.

Toxic Deluge helped me win two games vs Elves and is always relevant, so I added one to the SB.

Besides this I'm not sure how I would deal with opposing Dark Depths. Humility is my best idea so far.


--- Tournament results (local game store):
This idea has been working out well so far. I've run 3-1 in two local legacy tournaments with the following matchups. I'll write a few comments about the dubious card choices (i.e. Acidic Slime and Strangleroot Geist). Forgive any incorrectness and briefness in the reporting (I didn't take notes)!

Goblins twice (both with black splash): 1-1
Seems like a very favourable matchup, in one of the lost games I had 5-6 rounds with top and shuffling to find one of about 10+ outs and failed. Also not finding Mystic or Batterskull in these games.
From the won games one was in the last round of time with a GSZ for Strangleroot.

RUG Delver: 0-1 (0-2)
In both lost games I had 3 explorers/GSZ's in the graveyard that had been countered or stifled, 2 lands in play and several 3 mana answers in my hand. I probably lost one of the games because I therapied for FoW, not having seen Stifle for a long time. Also I didn't play around Daze much because I had so many relevant answers but he kept drawing really well. In one game I rid his hand of 3 Delvers with therapy, he has a Stifle and Daze stopping my Explorers/GSZ's and he topdecks a goyf and consecutive counterspells for anything I play. I guess that what happens when you remove Carpet from the sideboard.

Omniscience: 1-0 (2-1)
In one of the games I put pressure on him and he had to Show in an Omniscience without Cunning Wish backup, luckily I had the Slime in my hand.

Miracles (no Jace? only saw Elspeth): 1-0 (2-0)
Game one was a bit drawn out with a GSZ for Slime destroying Counterbalance and later in the game there was an opposing Elspeth ultimatum which probably Batterskull won through with me at 30-40 life points in the end.
Game two was won a bit luckily by t1 SDT (FoWed), t3 Liliana (countered), t4 Liliana and EOT Enlightened Tutor, t5 Nether Void.

MUD: 1-0 (2-1?)
He mulligans a lot. GSZ for Slime to destroy Bottled Cloister won me game 1. And another game was won by Cabal Therapy for Wurmcoil (over double Forgemasters), next turn Liliana killing Forgemaster no 1 and next turn GSZ for Slime to kill Ancient Tomb to prevent opponent from untapping Grim Monolith and playing the second Forgemaster (forgot some details in the sequence). - Oh yeah, he beat me down game two with an early Loadstone Golem, I never got to four lands to play a Finks, Deluge or other cards.

Elves: 1-0 (2-0/1?)
I don't draw any of my extra discard but win both games by turn three Toxic Deluge, once removing a Progenitus. And being able to follow up with Batterskull + Humility in one of those games. Since then I've added 1 Engineered Plague and 1 Toxic Deluge to the sideboard (replacing Massacre) which should help some.

Dredge (can't distinguish versions but he ran lands): 1-0 (2-1)
Lose game one trying to get enough green mana to stay alive with Ooze waiting to get my hands on a board wipe. Win a game post board with t1 enlightened tutor, t2 rest in peace, t3 GSZ for Ooze.

[tons of fun]

so i top foured a bazaar of moxen quifier at tales of advanture running the dead eye navigator list i created and for this tourny i decided to try the mimioplasm as my open 5 slot and he was an amazing card so utility and so very hard to deal with he quickly became a permenet fixture in my deck for going above and beyond good


r1 dredge 2-1

r2 stoneblade 2-0

r3 dredge 1-2

r4 ruw devlver 2-0

r5 omni tell 2-1

r6 stoneblade 2-1

r7 bug 2-1

r8 id


top 8

sneak attack 2-0

reanimater 0-2 yay god hand lol

[gato con botas]

Tons who is your deck list?

[tons of fun]

22 LANDS
3 Island
3 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower

18 CREATURES
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Coiling Oracle
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Fierce Empath
1 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Mystic Snake
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Frost Titan
1 Reaper of the Wilds
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 memioplasm
1 Thragtusk

13 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Living Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Diabolic Intent

8 OTHER SPELLS
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Recurring Nightmare

SIDEBOARD
1 Eternal Witness
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 High Market
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Abrupt Decay
2 fluster storm
1 toxic deluge
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold

[Razorwynd]

22 LANDS
3 Island
3 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower

18 CREATURES
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Coiling Oracle
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Fierce Empath
1 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Mystic Snake
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Frost Titan
1 Reaper of the Wilds
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 memioplasm
1 Thragtusk

13 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Living Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Diabolic Intent

8 OTHER SPELLS
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Recurring Nightmare

SIDEBOARD
1 Eternal Witness
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 High Market
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Abrupt Decay
2 fluster storm
1 toxic deluge
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold

I wish I could watch this deck in action… i struggle to see it being effective but clearly you are having good results

[Svknoe]

@Svknoe: Thanks - sadly we don't crushed the field together at day two.

I will test your list, because it seems that blue has some interesting creatures to abuse with Pod.

Your plan against Miracles sounds solid, access to double Archmage seems very good.

Questions about your Sideboard:

How good is the random Jitte (no Stoneforge, no aggressive Creatures, online at turn 3 ? if you find it) – I know (as an elves player) that Jitte can be good, IF you disrupt enough to get it online. But Nic Fit seems not disruptive enough compared to Tempo decks.

Riptide Pilferer – I know it was discussed before and also adds a “Force Pitch” but if it comes online turn 2, you can only profit turn 3 (which seems kind of meh against Combo). No one fears a 1/1 “Beater”. Sure discard every turn isn’t so bad, but you need more disruption until the little Merfolk let you profit.

Is Vendilion Clique not a better Options? Also online turn 3, let you see the hand (nice because BUG Pod also use Counters) and with 3/1 a much better Beater/Clock. At worst you can Pod into Archmage/Venser.

Why Envelope over Swan Song? Against Elves (NO, Zenith, Glimpse) or Miracle (Terminus, Entreat) we also want Pernicious Deed which also kill the 2/2 Token. Swan Song can also counter Ad Nauseum, Sneak Attack or Miracle Stuff like Moat/Humillity.

I thought about to cut -3 Riptide and -1 Jitte (Envelope can be Swan Song or Flusterstorm etc. - but it isn’t the worst Spell) and add +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Vendillion Clique, which leaves to open Slots for additional Spells (more blue Stuff/Counters/+1 Fleshbag Marauder etc.).

Sample:
+1 Clique
+1 TS (2 total)
+1 Fleshbag/Clique (but I like Fleshbag as additional Tempo/Show&Tell/Creature hate – it is the Jitte Slot)
+3 Swan Song/Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce (if Envelope is also cutted)

Benefit is more earlier Disruption to get enough turns to develop the board and get real Stuff like Pod/Archmage/Venser/Clique online.

The Jitte is okay. I side it in against most creature decks. If it gets online, it is very good. I can be a bit clunky, though. It won me a game against Elves. It is true that other disruption is needed first. I have not played a lot of tempo decks, but this deck seems quite disruptive post board. Elves is still a bad match up. In the GP I hit double glimpse blindly on Cabal Therapy versus both my opponents.

I have been pleased with Riptide Pilferer. On its own, it hardly does anything. You have to be able to slow them down enough with counters and discard that Pilferer can connect. Our way of beating combo is different from how the tempo decks beat combo. Tempo decks can slow down the combo deck with soft counters while killing them. We are not able to kill them reasonably quickly, so that plan doesn't work as well for us. More counters and discard in Pilferers stead will certainly help us to not die immediately. But from my experience the combo decks will generally be able to eventually overcome this if we have not got a credible threat, such as a Delver. In stead, I try to lock them out of the game. When they can't reasonably win, our various 1/1s and deathrite shaman will kill them. The purpose of our disruption is to buy time for us to play our lock pieces. If Glen Elendra Archmage or Riptide Pilferer sticks, it becomes incredibly difficult for our opponent to win the game. I am not sure that this is definitely the correct way to beat combo, but if I cut Pilferer I fear that it will become difficult to win without Glen Elendra in play. Pitching to Force is also good, of course. We have a bit too few blue cards. Vendilion Clique is interesting.

If you cut Pilferer, Swan Song is an option. If not, it is not. The bird blocks Pilferer. That is the most important difference. Amongst other things, I have noticed that Envelop counters almost everything that I care about. It is good against storm, miracles, elves and show and tell. The only important card that Envelop does not counter is Sneak Attack, which is also their best card against us in the match up. That is my main concern with Envelop. Other than that, I think that the bird is a very real draw back for us. If I have a board of Wood Elves and Witness, Miracles has to Terminus that away. If they get a bird, the counterspell has accomplished nothing. When we board in a lot of disruption for their combo, elves are capable of beating us down. We are hard pressed to survive their onslaught as well a the bird. I think that soft counters are bad in this deck, because we run Veteran Explorer. The combo dekcs often have basic lands. Giving them 2 lands puts especially Spell Pierce to shame.

Fleshbag seems like it could be good. I am tempted to main deck it. I could take Wood Elves' spot in the main deck.

Edit: GtF, what does your current sideboard look like?

[tons of fun]

I wish I could watch this deck in action… i struggle to see it being effective but clearly you are having good results

look i seems weird yes but this i have top 16 min the last 4 events i played with it

[GtF]

The Jitte is okay. I side it in against most creature decks. If it gets online, it is very good. I can be a bit clunky, though. It won me a game against Elves. It is true that other disruption is needed first. I have not played a lot of tempo decks, but this deck seems quite disruptive post board. Elves is still a bad match up. In the GP I hit double glimpse blindly on Cabal Therapy versus both my opponents.

I have been pleased with Riptide Pilferer. On its own, it hardly does anything. You have to be able to slow them down enough with counters and discard that Pilferer can connect. Our way of beating combo is different from how the tempo decks beat combo. Tempo decks can slow down the combo deck with soft counters while killing them. We are not able to kill them reasonably quickly, so that plan doesn't work as well for us. More counters and discard in Pilferers stead will certainly help us to not die immediately. But from my experience the combo decks will generally be able to eventually overcome this if we have not got a credible threat, such as a Delver. In stead, I try to lock them out of the game. When they can't reasonably win, our various 1/1s and deathrite shaman will kill them. The purpose of our disruption is to buy time for us to play our lock pieces. If Glen Elendra Archmage or Riptide Pilferer sticks, it becomes incredibly difficult for our opponent to win the game. I am not sure that this is definitely the correct way to beat combo, but if I cut Pilferer I fear that it will become difficult to win without Glen Elendra in play. Pitching to Force is also good, of course. We have a bit too few blue cards. Vendilion Clique is interesting.

If you cut Pilferer, Swan Song is an option. If not, it is not. The bird blocks Pilferer. That is the most important difference. Amongst other things, I have noticed that Envelop counters almost everything that I care about. It is good against storm, miracles, elves and show and tell. The only important card that Envelop does not counter is Sneak Attack, which is also their best card against us in the match up. That is my main concern with Envelop. Other than that, I think that the bird is a very real draw back for us. If I have a board of Wood Elves and Witness, Miracles has to Terminus that away. If they get a bird, the counterspell has accomplished nothing. When we board in a lot of disruption for their combo, elves are capable of beating us down. We are hard pressed to survive their onslaught as well a the bird. I think that soft counters are bad in this deck, because we run Veteran Explorer. The combo dekcs often have basic lands. Giving them 2 lands puts especially Spell Pierce to shame.

Fleshbag seems like it could be good. I am tempted to main deck it. I could take Wood Elves' spot in the main deck.

Edit: GtF, what does your current sideboard look like?

Yeah, I agree with everything you're saying about pilferer/envelop. It is really annoying that it doesn't counter Sneak Attack but other than that I think it's about as good as Swan Song. Pretty much every combo deck relies on key sorceries.
The other anti-combo sideboard plan I've considered is playing 4 swan song and 4 tarmogoyf, and just beating them down as fast as possible. However I think I like this plan better because it incorporates more blue cards to make Force of Will better.
I also think the Jitte is good but maybe not necessary. I have considered cutting it to make room for other cards to fight things that are particularly problematic for us. Specifically: Surgical Extraction to fight Punishing Fires (also nice vs. dredge/reanimator as a bonus) and Pithing Needle to fight dark depths (also nice vs. sensei's divining top and Jace the mind sculptor, but has anti-synergy with Pernicious Deed).

Here's the maindeck/SB I think I'd run right now:

2 bayou
2 tropical island
1 u. sea
4 v. cat
4. misty rainforest
2 polluted delta
2 forest
2 island
2 swamp


3 birthing pod
1 recurring nightmare
4 brainstorm
2 pernicious deed
1 abrupt decay
4 cabal therapy
1 Green sun's zenith


4 veteran explorer
4 deathrite shaman
4 baleful strix
1 kitchen finks
1 scavenging ooze
1 phantasmal image
1 shriekmaw
1 fleshbag marauder
1 eternal witness
1 thragtusk
1 murderous redcap
1 glen elendra archmage
1 acidic slime
1 grave titan
1 Sower of Temptation

SB:
1 Aetherling
4 Force of Will
2 Envelop
3 Riptide Pilferer
1 Glen elendra archmage
1 umezawa's jitte
1 Venser, shaper savant
1 Pernicious Deed
1 ????

(Cards I'm considering include: Abrupt Decay, Pithing Needle, Surgical Extraction, Thoughtseize, Vendilion Clique, Envelop.)
I played Golgari Charm for a bit and didn't like it because the -1/-1 kills a decent amount of our own creatures, and the other modes didn't seem to relevant and/or could be accomplished with other cards. But I could be convinced otherwise I suppose.

The maindeck is 61 cards. I have strongly considered the idea of cutting a veteran explorer, since they aren't very good to draw after the first. I will probably test that out soon.

When you were playing vs. elves, did you board in the FOWs? I think I would just board the envelops and rely on the rest of the discard and removal to disrupt them enough to win.

[MD.Ghost]

Last Weekend I played a 6 round tournament (37 players) with Punishing Fit to gain more skill/experience with this build.

Matchups:

R1 vs Bant Lands 2:0 (similar to GP lands deck, with Living Wish, Intuition and Force / he struggle with his draws and I get Deathrite and Ooze G2 working – Thanks to Huntmaster Lifegain and Liliana I dodge one Attack from the bad ass token)

R2 vs Team America 1:2 (can’t get a good score against this deck… / G1 I gain enough removal and answer everything he played, his last move was a Tombstalker which meets my Fleshbag Marauder / G2 can’t get enough stuff, he started with DS, Hymn, Liliana and crushed me / G3 I draw lands over lands and he disrupted me with hymn and smashes creature after creature – my only removal was a one use only Liliana…)

R3 vs UW Miracles 1:2 (My first Matchup with Punishing Fit against Miracles: G1 I didn’t trigger Explorer and get him down fast enough, G2 double entreat without deed, G3 I got Slaughter Games Turn 3 naming Entreat, followed with Slaughter Games Turn 4 naming Jace – sadly he has one Clique which beats me down under a Counterbalance Lock, my only removal in hand was double Red Blasts…never see Liliana, Decay, Punishing, Deed…what a game)

R4 vs Reanimator 1:2 (G1 he got Grisel which “draw7counters” my Liliana / G2 Deathrite faced his Needle, but some Discard + Surgical allowed me to get Ooze online / G3 After Mulligan I started with Thoughtseize, he responded with Entombs Iona + Daze my Discard…,Turn 2 I played Deathrite and he played Exhume – Iona naming Black – GG)

R5 vs BG Nic Fit 2:0 (G1 goes very long as expected, I played against a girl which hasn’t enough experience and forgot to abuse Recurring Nightmare, I get Deed only to clear the board and she never recovers / G2 she concede because we have only some minutes till timeout)

R6 vs UWr Miracle 2:0 (Again Miracle…this time against Helm+RIP, G1 a well-timed Deed won me the game / G2 – see above – Turn 3 Slaughter Games naming Jace because he hasn’t Sensei out, Turn 4 Slaughter Games naming Entreat, this time I have Deed and Decay and he can’t win it)

3:3 – not got enough. I won some bad matchups and lost some good, but a lot of 1:2 stuff here so it was a bit unlucky. I was glad to gain some training against Miracle. After GP we will see this deck more often.

As I thought, Slaughter Games is a very good option against Miracle and I would definitely play two at Maindeck if I ever chose Scapeshift again.

---------------

BUG Pod

@Svknoe and civet five - Thanks for your reply.
I cut and add some spells to test different BUG Pod cards - you still have some flexible solutions in this deck for personal playstyle. Last time i cutted 1 Wood Elves for 1 Vendilion Clique, 1 Reccuring Nightmare for 1 Garruk Relentless (really like his options, he is removal, permanent pressure against control, able to start a pod chain and a tutor in a 1off creature deck).
Sideboard - right Swan Song isn't good enough here. Current Countersuite has: 1 Flusterstorm, 3 Force of Will, 2 Negate and additional 2nd Glen Elendra Archmage (1 main), 2 Thoughtseize and 1 Venser. Negate may be to slow (but faster than any Riptide Boy) but with additional Discard like Thoughtseize you may gain enough time.

@GtF
I like Pithing Needle and woud never play my Punishing Build without it (Problems with Walkers, Sneak Attack, Dark Depths Combo etc.?). In Scapeshift or BUG Pod you can also naming Sensei if you play against Miracle which is really good. Sure it isn't nice with Deed, but you don't always see both and sometimes Deed goes out Game 2 and 3.

[Svknoe]

I agree about the Tarmogoyf plan. I also think that Tarmogoyf doesn't synergise to well with the rest of the plan. If Tarmogoyf kills them, we win. If it doesn't kill them, we lose. If Pilferer is not enough to stop them, it will still slow them down so that we can get more time to resolve a Glen Elendra Archmage.

Punishing Fire and Dark Depths can be a bit tough. Acidic Slime can be great for fighting both of them. 1 of each of Surgical and Pithing Needle seems okay. The anti-synergy with Deed should not be an issue versus Dark Depths, but could be a hassle versus miracles. I think that Ætherling is also cuttable. He is almost unbeatable versus Shardless BUG, and okay against Miracles. Sometimes they Entreat you out, regardless of Ætherling. Do you board him in in any other match ups? As for Thoughtseize, I like having the 5th discard spell versus combo. It's also nice to help Therapy hit later. While I like Abrupt Decay a lot, does it have enough of an impact as a sideboard card? Where would you board it in? I seems at it's strongest versus Delver decks, which are all borderline easy in the first place.

I board Golgari Charm in versus TNN decks, Elves, Miracles (Sometimes kills counterbalance, sometimes stops supreme verdict. We have a lot to board out.), Omnitell and Goblins (only on the play, to kill goblin lackey). I don't think that FOW is that good against Elves, and I leave it in the board. Our blue count is a bit low as well, without Pilferer. Envelop is very good. I also board in Jitte, Golgari charm, Glen Elendra, Thoughtseize and Deed.

How is the mana base working out? I am still playing:

2 bayou
3 tropical island
1 u. sea
4 v. cat
4. misty rainforest
1 polluted delta
3 forest
1 island
2 swamp

I somewhat frequently end up fetching all of the 6 duals. Does having only 5 ever pose a problem? Does the second Island get in the way? I sometimes want it for Sower of Temptation, but otherwise not.

I don't think that 61 cards is any good. The cards that are possible to cut are:

Veteran Explorer
Deathrite Shaman
Green Sun's Zenith
Recurring Nightmare
Abrupt Decay
Baleful Strix

If we cut anything else, our ability to function as a Pod deck is too greatly diminished. I do like all of those cards, and would prefer to keep all of them. I think that the least painful cut is 1 Veteran Explorer, followed by GSZ.


@MD.Ghost

Vendilion Clique seems good. I have two concerns. Its ETB ability is a little weak for the Pod chain and its 1UU cost seems a little hard on the mana base. Are these things problematic for you? I have not tried Garruk Relentless in Pod yet. I liked him in Punishing Fit. Recurring Nightmare singlehandedly wins the game, though. As a pod deck we often put strong creatures in the graveyard for it to abuse.

Is the sideboard enough to beat combo? How do you win the post board games that you win against storm and show and tell? I am worried that disruption is not enough, and that we need something to kill them. It seems that winning without Glen Elendra is difficult. If you include some cheap offensive creature (for example Pilferer or Tarmogoyf), I think that Negate will be too expensive. It is often important to hold up a counter while playing the threat early. The fourth Force also has to be correct.

[GtF]

I agree about the Tarmogoyf plan. I also think that Tarmogoyf doesn't synergise to well with the rest of the plan. If Tarmogoyf kills them, we win. If it doesn't kill them, we lose. If Pilferer is not enough to stop them, it will still slow them down so that we can get more time to resolve a Glen Elendra Archmage.

Punishing Fire and Dark Depths can be a bit tough. Acidic Slime can be great for fighting both of them. 1 of each of Surgical and Pithing Needle seems okay. The anti-synergy with Deed should not be an issue versus Dark Depths, but could be a hassle versus miracles. I think that Ætherling is also cuttable. He is almost unbeatable versus Shardless BUG, and okay against Miracles. Sometimes they Entreat you out, regardless of Ætherling. Do you board him in in any other match ups? As for Thoughtseize, I like having the 5th discard spell versus combo. It's also nice to help Therapy hit later. While I like Abrupt Decay a lot, does it have enough of an impact as a sideboard card? Where would you board it in? I seems at it's strongest versus Delver decks, which are all borderline easy in the first place.

I board Golgari Charm in versus TNN decks, Elves, Miracles (Sometimes kills counterbalance, sometimes stops supreme verdict. We have a lot to board out.), Omnitell and Goblins (only on the play, to kill goblin lackey). I don't think that FOW is that good against Elves, and I leave it in the board. Our blue count is a bit low as well, without Pilferer. Envelop is very good. I also board in Jitte, Golgari charm, Glen Elendra, Thoughtseize and Deed.

How is the mana base working out? I am still playing:

2 bayou
3 tropical island
1 u. sea
4 v. cat
4. misty rainforest
1 polluted delta
3 forest
1 island
2 swamp

I somewhat frequently end up fetching all of the 6 duals. Does having only 5 ever pose a problem? Does the second Island get in the way? I sometimes want it for Sower of Temptation, but otherwise not.

I don't think that 61 cards is any good. The cards that are possible to cut are:

Veteran Explorer
Deathrite Shaman
Green Sun's Zenith
Recurring Nightmare
Abrupt Decay
Baleful Strix

If we cut anything else, our ability to function as a Pod deck is too greatly diminished. I do like all of those cards, and would prefer to keep all of them. I think that the least painful cut is 1 Veteran Explorer, followed by GSZ.


@MD.Ghost

Vendilion Clique seems good. I have two concerns. Its ETB ability is a little weak for the Pod chain and its 1UU cost seems a little hard on the mana base. Are these things problematic for you? I have not tried Garruk Relentless in Pod yet. I liked him in Punishing Fit. Recurring Nightmare singlehandedly wins the game, though. As a pod deck we often put strong creatures in the graveyard for it to abuse.

Is the sideboard enough to beat combo? How do you win the post board games that you win against storm and show and tell? I am worried that disruption is not enough, and that we need something to kill them. It seems that winning without Glen Elendra is difficult. If you include some cheap offensive creature (for example Pilferer or Tarmogoyf), I think that Negate will be too expensive. It is often important to hold up a counter while playing the threat early. The fourth Force also has to be correct.

Aetherling might be cuttable. It's good against grindy decks like shardless and jund but those are already good matchups. The only matchup where it seems like it could really swing a game is vs. miracles. However, I haven't tested it with your SB plan so maybe it isn't needed there.
Abrupt decay is a nice one to have against delver decks and also vs stuff like elves and DnT to slow them down a bit. I suppose golgari charm is just better for that purpose though. I would also board it in against anything with counterbalance, and there's also fringe stuff like metalworker, food chain, or painter's servants that are nice to have additional answers to.

So far the manabase has been ok. I did debate for a while between the 3rd forest vs. 2nd island, I went with the island because of the addition of Sower of Temptation and sometimes needing more blue mana for Glen Elendra + holding up a blue postboard vs combo. I went with the 10th fetchland just so the Deathrites would have enough lands in the graveyard to activate for mana in the early game, since I moved up to 4 Deathrites. I haven't needed the 6th dual so far, but also haven't played with this configuration that much either.

[SpeedOfDark]

----- Tournament Report ------

This was supposed to be a 30-40 person tournament, but because of weather conditions it was only 15 people, which means 4 rounds and a top 8. This is the deck I played:

---Deck list---
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Strangleroot Geist
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
2 Grave Titan

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Garruk Relentless

4 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Phyrexian Tower

---Sideboard---
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Choke
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Duress
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth


---Games---
Round 1
Opponent: UWR Delver
Result: 2-0
Description: in game 1 my opponent kept playable hand that had mostly the top end of his deck (no delvers or bolts). He got batterskull off stoneforge on turn 3 and tried to support it to victory. After taking a few hits, I stabilized and played a grave titan. Game 2 I was siboarded all wrong because I thought he was playing something like deathblade, so I was pretty surprised when he opened with 2 delvers and starting beating me fast. He forced a deed but the second resolved and blew his board, ending the game a few turns later.

Round 2
Opponent: GBW depths
Result: 0-2
Description: the opponent was playing a dark depths combo/aggro brew, it was playing thoughtseize, living wish, hexmage, dark depths, thespian stage, wasteland, reliquary, teeg, thalia, scavenging ooze, mox diamond, etc. In short, this was a very bad matchup. I felt comfortable with my combo matchup because I had a ton of discard postboard, but it was not especially useful against this type of combo which had so many redundant copies of all its pieces and blockers to buy time. For the most part, games would play out as me bombarding him with discard and then hope he didn’t top deck out of it while I tried to beat him down. He did, twice.

Round 3
Opponent: Merfolk
Result: 2-1
Description: this felt like a decently easy matchup, where most of the games revolved around resolving sweepers. The two victories played out the same:
early game skirmish -> mass removal resolves -> outboard him -> win.
The only loss was from keeping a risky 6-card 1 lander that didn’t pan out.

Round 4
Opponent: Pox
Result: 2-0
Description: to be fair, we actually drew into the top 8. However, we played some matches anyways, and this is an extremely good matchup for nic fit. They destroy our lands, we make lands, they try to grind us, and we grind faster and harder. When you open with a veteran explorer and they have stuff like smallpox and sinkhole in their hand, it’s just a terrible spot for them to be.

Top 8 consisted of:
Miracles
Storm
Nic Fit (me)
Pox
Painter’s Stone
Shades (MB brew)
GBW depts (brew I played in round 2)
Stoneblade

For my first match of top 8, I got paired against GBW depths and lost 0-2 again. Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure this was my worst matchup in the top 8, but that’s the way it goes sometimes. Painter’s Stone won the tournament.

---Conclusion---
Overall, I had a good time and was pretty satisfied with the power of the deck. Every card in the deck pulled its weight at some point or another. The cards that felt the most powerful were mostly the obvious ones: veteran explorer, cabal therapy, pernicious deed and thrun. The cards that surprised me the most were kitchen finks and top; I knew they were good, but they both pulled a lot more weight than I expected. I would have loved to play against some of the other combo decks to test my postboard against hard combo. I was already interested in GBW Nic Fit before this event, and losing to Marite Lage 4 times only intensified this interest. That douche deserves to plow.

Based on my experience with the deck, I will be starting with this as the skeleton for all my future nic fit builds:
4 cabal therapy
4 veteran explorer
4 green sun’s zenith
4 pernicious deed
4 sensei’s divining top
1 scavenging ooze
1 kitchen finks
1 thrun, the last troll

I can understand playing some of the deeds in the sideboard, but in a TNN world I’d rather have a full playset for game 1. Similarly, 3 tops seems ok, but if you are running enough fetchlands you can always shuffle away extra copies so I would rather run 4. Tops make more starting hands keepable and drastically improve your grinding power by drawing into gas with excess mana.

[pettdan]

@SpeedOfDark: Nice to read how it's working out for you. I don't know if you saw my post above on this page from two days back, it's based on your deck from a few weeks back and it has the white splash. Humility is what I expect to use vs Depths, with two Enlightened Tutor to get it. And possibly Armageddon could help, but I think I'll exchange one Geddon for a second Humility since it seems very important in a couple of big creature matchups (Cloudpost, Sneak and Show, MUD, even used it vs elves).

I'm also thinking of adding two Living Wish to the main (in place of Sigarda, Inquisition, Thoughtseize or Deluge) for Karakas (vs Depths, Sneak and Show) and Tabernacle (elves etc).

[Cire_dk]

Regarding the ongoing discussion about 61 cards or not I would recommend reading this article from a friend of mine and see if it helps or confuses us even more :smile:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-is-playing-more-than-60-cards-always-a-bad-idea/

[Brael]

So I've been thinking more about building Bug Pod... In Modern I've played Melira Pod since the Overextended days and really like the idea of porting it over. I think I've identified most of the cards I want, but as I said in my previous post (with an idea that didn't pan out) I'm pretty new to Legacy so I have a lot of trouble evaluating cards for the format.

So far my deck outline looks like this... normally I'm not a fan of just listing lands without specifics but because the rest of the list isn't defined it doesn't seem worth specifying lands yet.
21 land
6 basic
6 dual
9 fetch

Creatures 23
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
2 Coiling Oracle
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Faceless Butcher
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Master Biomancer
1 Thragtusk
1 Frost Titan

Artifact 3
3 Birthing Pod

Spells 10
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Pernicious Deed

If you add up that list you'll see it comes to 57 cards. So I have 3 slots free and I have no idea what to include.

Stuff I like includes:
2 CMC
Zameck Guildmage - Seems neat, but it's kind of expensive, there's also an issue with getting it because there's only 4 1 drops and no other tutor spells besides pod so I get the feeling it's too unreliable. It doesn't help that it dies to everything and generates no value for a turn in most cases.

Living Wish - The number of green creatures I'm running seems too low for GSZ, and I get the feeling Chord of Calling won't work here either since it requires too much board presence so this looks like the best tutor, but it requires giving up sideboard space.

Scavenging Ooze - Seems like a good card to be running, but again I think I'm going to have a lot of trouble in tutoring for it in such a list. Is it still worth including as a 1 of then?

4 CMC
Dimir House Guard - I don't really know how to evaluate transmute in legacy. I keep thinking that this is solid though. Against Griselbrand and Emrakul it turns into Faceless Butcher or Venser, against Delver it turns into Redcap, against a fair deck it turns into Pod, and then it can sit in the GY to protect Havengul Lich (or pod into lich even). The sacrifice could even be potentially relevant with a Redcap/Finks+Guard/Lich+Biomancer combo. The only bad part about it seems to be that it's 2 power for 4 mana. I think the main strike is that I already have a lot of 4's.

5 CMC - I only have 1 5 CMC listed so far, I'm pretty sure I want 1 maybe 2 more.
Havengul Lich - Seems really useful, this deck makes a lot of mana so it shouldn't have a problem paying the cost. I wonder if I'm playing enough activated abilities though, that whole aspect of the ability is more or less unused here. Being a podable Recurring Nightmare strikes me as very good though.

Acidic Slime - Good utility but isn't truly broken unless it's being flickered which I'm not doing here.

Shriekmaw - It's removal, but it can't kill a Griselbrand off of Show and Tell or a germ token so I'm wondering if it's good enough.


Regarding the ongoing discussion about 61 cards or not I would recommend reading this article from a friend of mine and see if it helps or confuses us even more

My thought has always been that you're running your 60 best cards. If that's the case, then your 61st card is below the power level of your 60th card so including it is bringing the average power level of your deck down. I read this entire thread as part of researching the deck and saw a lot of debate about the 4th brainstorm as card #61, and I didn't agree with it. If the 4th Brainstorm is worth including because it's a higher than average power level, then it must actually be some other card that shouldn't be included.

[tons of fun]

So I've been thinking more about building Bug Pod... In Modern I've played Melira Pod since the Overextended days and really like the idea of porting it over. I think I've identified most of the cards I want, but as I said in my previous post (with an idea that didn't pan out) I'm pretty new to Legacy so I have a lot of trouble evaluating cards for the format.

So far my deck outline looks like this... normally I'm not a fan of just listing lands without specifics but because the rest of the list isn't defined it doesn't seem worth specifying lands yet.
21 land
6 basic
6 dual
9 fetch

Creatures 23
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
2 Coiling Oracle
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Faceless Butcher
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Master Biomancer
1 Thragtusk
1 Frost Titan

Artifact 3
3 Birthing Pod

Spells 10
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Pernicious Deed

If you add up that list you'll see it comes to 57 cards. So I have 3 slots free and I have no idea what to include.

Stuff I like includes:
2 CMC
Zameck Guildmage - Seems neat, but it's kind of expensive, there's also an issue with getting it because there's only 4 1 drops and no other tutor spells besides pod so I get the feeling it's too unreliable. It doesn't help that it dies to everything and generates no value for a turn in most cases.

Living Wish - The number of green creatures I'm running seems too low for GSZ, and I get the feeling Chord of Calling won't work here either since it requires too much board presence so this looks like the best tutor, but it requires giving up sideboard space.

Scavenging Ooze - Seems like a good card to be running, but again I think I'm going to have a lot of trouble in tutoring for it in such a list. Is it still worth including as a 1 of then?

4 CMC
Dimir House Guard - I don't really know how to evaluate transmute in legacy. I keep thinking that this is solid though. Against Griselbrand and Emrakul it turns into Faceless Butcher or Venser, against Delver it turns into Redcap, against a fair deck it turns into Pod, and then it can sit in the GY to protect Havengul Lich (or pod into lich even). The sacrifice could even be potentially relevant with a Redcap/Finks+Guard/Lich+Biomancer combo. The only bad part about it seems to be that it's 2 power for 4 mana. I think the main strike is that I already have a lot of 4's.

5 CMC - I only have 1 5 CMC listed so far, I'm pretty sure I want 1 maybe 2 more.
Havengul Lich - Seems really useful, this deck makes a lot of mana so it shouldn't have a problem paying the cost. I wonder if I'm playing enough activated abilities though, that whole aspect of the ability is more or less unused here. Being a podable Recurring Nightmare strikes me as very good though.

Acidic Slime - Good utility but isn't truly broken unless it's being flickered which I'm not doing here.

Shriekmaw - It's removal, but it can't kill a Griselbrand off of Show and Tell or a germ token so I'm wondering if it's good enough.



My thought has always been that you're running your 60 best cards. If that's the case, then your 61st card is below the power level of your 60th card so including it is bringing the average power level of your deck down. I read this entire thread as part of researching the deck and saw a lot of debate about the 4th brainstorm as card #61, and I didn't agree with it. If the 4th Brainstorm is worth including because it's a higher than average power level, then it must actually be some other card that shouldn't be included.

u dont have enough big drop u have a lot of stall with no bang, as well as if ur gonna runn the master bio mancer witch is what i started with deadeye with u gonna need things to make him more werth is and he needs to be more then a 1 of so u wanna look into deranged hermit AND HORNET QUEEN

[pfiremc13]

My thought has always been that you're running your 60 best cards. If that's the case, then your 61st card is below the power level of your 60th card so including it is bringing the average power level of your deck down. I read this entire thread as part of researching the deck and saw a lot of debate about the 4th brainstorm as card #61, and I didn't agree with it. If the 4th Brainstorm is worth including because it's a higher than average power level, then it must actually be some other card that shouldn't be included.

Well that's true but in a deck with tutors even though the 61st card may be worse when you draw it the extra option may be worth it. If you are running 61 I think that you need to tutor for #61 more than you draw it, and it has to be better than average in those circumstances.

[Brael]

Well that's true but in a deck with tutors even though the 61st card may be worse when you draw it the extra option may be worth it. If you are running 61 I think that you need to tutor for #61 more than you draw it, and it has to be better than average in those circumstances.

My preference in such a situation is to add in the extra card I want to tutor for, and then cut multiples of something for more tutors. As an example in my list if I wanted to add another 4 drop as the 61st card, I would probably also cut two 4 drops I'm running multiples of and add a Dimir House Guard (or some other relevant tutor) to serve as an additional copy of every other 4 drop increasing my toolbox and effective copies of each card while not pushing the list over 60.

In some super tutor heavy lists I could see going over 60, but if you're just running 4 dig spells, and 3-5 tutors I don't think that qualifies as heavy enough to go over 60.


u dont have enough big drop u have a lot of stall with no bang, as well as if ur gonna runn the master bio mancer witch is what i started with deadeye with u gonna need things to make him more werth is and he needs to be more then a 1 of so u wanna look into deranged hermit AND HORNET QUEEN

Like I said I come from Modern pod where we originally ran 7 drops like Sheoldred, then realized they didn't work so well and topped out at 6 drops. Today it tops out at 5 in the interest of streamlining things. I don't like running a 6 here but I'm high on 4's and don't see many good Show and Tell cards at 5, so 6 seems like a necessary evil (it also helps that the 6 is blue and Veteran Explorer is very reliable ramp which makes a hard cast easier). Like I said though, I'm pretty new to Legacy so it's entirely possible that my conclusions are way off. I don't like Deadeye Navigator because it seems to require too much blue mana. In the videos I've seen it's not that unlikely to get to 8 or 10 mana to cast it and hold up the exile, but requiring 4 blue in such a situation strikes me as being difficult on the mana. Deranged Hermit is ok at 9 power for 5 mana, but it's a pretty big blowout for the Hermit to die after paying the echo, it seems to me like that's too big of a weakness in a 5 drop.

Maybe I'll go higher on Dimir House Guard. I like the idea of being able to transmute it into a Pod, pod a Finks into a Biomancer, pod the Finks into a redcap, pod the Redcap into a Lich, and then have an infinite damage combo. It works in Modern to combo out of 3 activations atleast... I don't know if it works in Legacy though.

[Razorwynd]

I think if you are looking to combo out with pod you are better off podding a 4cc persist dude (Glen Elandra Archmage or Redcap) into kiki-jiki and zealous conscripts (i.e., something like RUG pod)

I think most of the BUG pod decks are mostly value as opposed to combo

[Razorwynd]

Yes, I got 10th. Hurrah! Thank you all. I played 12-2-1 without any byes, and missed top 8 on tie breakers.

I will try to compose a list of all of the match-ups shortly. I have been borderline sick all weekend, so a tournament report may take a few days.

Congrats! I hope you are feeling better. Can we still expect a tournament report from you or are we just going to have to be content with the random musing in the last few pages of this thread? I am really becoming interested in this deck and would love to read your thoughts.

[Brael]

I think if you are looking to combo out with pod you are better off podding a 4cc persist dude (Glen Elandra Archmage or Redcap) into kiki-jiki and zealous conscripts (i.e., something like RUG pod)

I think most of the BUG pod decks are mostly value as opposed to combo

It's not so much that I'm looking to combo as it seems like an option worth considering when all of the other cards are individually good, having a way to just win through board stalls seems useful, kind of like Melira Pod which in the hands of a competent pilot really only combos in 15-20% of it's games these days... it wins the rest through just spamming value creatures, the main advantage of combo in Melira is it's something you can threaten to force the opponent to make bad plays, like wasting a Lightning Bolt on a Melira which allows a Reveillark to actually win the game. Taking a route like that, a single Finks ends up being a huge threat that the opponent has to interact with, which then opens the path to just win through creatures on the board, otherwise you start to threaten all kinds of crazy things that are bad for the opponent. My biggest worry here is that Finks seems to be 1 power too small to profitably deal with something like a Batterskull, infact my entire decklist is other than the Thragtusk and Frost Titan (though the Strix can also block). I've seen that other lists only run the 1 Finks, and infact only run 2-3 3 drops total. I can't say that it's wrong because of my inexperience but I don't really understand the reasoning.

I can certainly accept that I'm just wrong here as my only experience with Legacy has been crushing fair decks for the past few years with Burn, and in return getting crushed by the unfair decks which are all over the local meta. But I need to see why I'm wrong... why something won't work.

Your suggested combo is certainly faster, but I'm pretty sure pod doesn't stand a chance at being competitive outside of the Nic Fit shell anyways, which means such a thing is going to be 4 colors, or more likely back to Jund, in which case it just seems worse than the scapeshift plan.

[Razorwynd]

It's not so much that I'm looking to combo as it seems like an option worth considering when all of the other cards are individually good I too any new to this archetype and for a while I had dreams of including a combo in the deck, but I think the combo enablers just do enough work outside of the combo. I couldn't wouldn't call simic biomancer or dimir house guard good cards when compared to other 4 drops like Sower, Glen elandra, or Venser.
I would be interested in what svknoe has to say about this topic.

[MD.Ghost]

@BUG-Pod

Vendilion Clique at Maindeck works good so far enough, you can pod into Clique for disruption (and if needed), pod again next turn into Archmage. I added a 2nd Island and 1 Flooded Grove for a more stable manabase with all the blue stuff.

Other Changes:
I also removed Shriekmaw as a 5mana Target and added 1 The Mimeoplasm (hey blue+green!), which is only dead against RIP – you can do some really absurd tricks with this creature and it also abuses the Pod-Chain into it.

Removed Acidic Slime (was way to slow most of the time) and added Viridian Shaman (mostly you want to answer Blade-Equipment or disrupt a fast Vial).

Sideboard is still a lot of testing. I also switched from 2nd Archmage to 1 Jace! With this I can play double Planeswalker against Control or switch Jace with Garruk if some “blue” Power is needed – for example Jace can work in Matchups( like Show&Tell) if Garruk is useless. I like to have some other high threat spells besides Pod to compensate some draws with our 1/1 creatures.

I like the playstyle with more “proactive” Disruption, so I also test a 2nd Vendilion Clique as a sideboard slot. As I mentioned, I like Clique over Riptide-Boy. Thanks to Deathrite you can slam a disruptive 3 power clock turn 2. Without Deathrite it will be as fast as Riptide – means “Disrupt starting from Turn 3”. If the game goes on you can Pod into a 4-drop (Archmage/Venser) if needed which can led to a Mimeoplasm to gain a “Game-Ending-Clique-Monster” or something else.

Next weeks I will also test the GBW-Pod Build to compare both in playstyle and results.

[Svknoe]

Regarding Combo Pod: I think that playing a combo kill in BUG Pod is a bad idea. It adds little and makes the deck inconsistent. If we have some creatures and a Pod in play, we are going to win the game almost every time. Introducing a combo kill into a game that is already won is pointless. What then, if we don't have a Pod? After all, the deck only plays 3. Pod also frequently gets forced. If we don't have a Pod, and we draw a bad card, such as Melira, we are probably going to lose. This is a value deck that frequently wins without Birthing Pod. If we start adding bad creatures to the deck, that won't be the case any more. I think that the deck is favoured versus almost of the fair decks, but the margins are slim. If we are to have a combo, all of the creatures have to be good on their own (not to say already the best choice for the slot). I don't that those creatures exist.

While this is a Pod deck, it is very important to win without Pod. If the deck is bad without a Pod in play, the deck is bad. The overall strategy is very powerful, but it is inherently situational. Pod is bad without creatures, and the creatures and the creatures are marginally sub par without Pod. This is a potentially great weakness that has to be minimised. If possible, all of our cards should be good on their own. We have to pick the most singlehandedly powerful creatures for each slot. Otherwise we are going to lose. All the synergy our creatures need is a powerful ETB effect. If your opponents is beating you down with a Delver, and you draw a Master Biomancer while you have nothing else, you are going to lose. This is not acceptable. We don't need cute synergistic creatures.

@Razorwynd

Thank you! You can still expect a tournament report. I will probably write something within a day. I may also write some general thoughts about the deck. I agree with you that biomancer and dimir house guard are bad as argued above. I think that the list that GtF and I use is a good starting point for BUG Pod. It has proven to be very successful on multiple occasions for the both of us.

@MD.Ghost

Mimeoplasm seems powerful, but a bit situational. In my experience, people already board in graveyard hate against me. I would like to not be overly reliant on the graveyard. Shriekmaw is my main way of dealing with Tarmogoyf, and its evoke mode is very relevant. At first I did not like Acidic Slime either. It is possible that you could go without it. Viridian Shaman would simultaneously solve the decks problem of having only 2 good 3 drops. I still like Acidic Slime, though. Since we plan for games to go long, it is nice to have an easily tutorable card that deals with almost any troublesome permanent. Examples include RIP, Mutavault, Batterskull, Jitte, Omniscience, Sylvan Library and Creeping Tar Pit. If it is not needed, I often side the slime out.

Jace is a powerful card. He has another function than Glen Elendra Archmage though. Archmage should be better against combo and Miracles. I would like to hear how your plan against combo works out. For reference I think that Reanimator and Sneak and Show are pretty favourable. Omnitell is very easy. I would guess that Elves and Storm are about 60-40 in their favour. The main strength of BUG Pod, compared to other Nic Fit variants, is that it beats combo.

[tons of fun]

My preference in such a situation is to add in the extra card I want to tutor for, and then cut multiples of something for more tutors. As an example in my list if I wanted to add another 4 drop as the 61st card, I would probably also cut two 4 drops I'm running multiples of and add a Dimir House Guard (or some other relevant tutor) to serve as an additional copy of every other 4 drop increasing my toolbox and effective copies of each card while not pushing the list over 60.

In some super tutor heavy lists I could see going over 60, but if you're just running 4 dig spells, and 3-5 tutors I don't think that qualifies as heavy enough to go over 60.



Like I said I come from Modern pod where we originally ran 7 drops like Sheoldred, then realized they didn't work so well and topped out at 6 drops. Today it tops out at 5 in the interest of streamlining things. I don't like running a 6 here but I'm high on 4's and don't see many good Show and Tell cards at 5, so 6 seems like a necessary evil (it also helps that the 6 is blue and Veteran Explorer is very reliable ramp which makes a hard cast easier). Like I said though, I'm pretty new to Legacy so it's entirely possible that my conclusions are way off. I don't like Deadeye Navigator because it seems to require too much blue mana. In the videos I've seen it's not that unlikely to get to 8 or 10 mana to cast it and hold up the exile, but requiring 4 blue in such a situation strikes me as being difficult on the mana. Deranged Hermit is ok at 9 power for 5 mana, but it's a pretty big blowout for the Hermit to die after paying the echo, it seems to me like that's too big of a weakness in a 5 drop.

Maybe I'll go higher on Dimir House Guard. I like the idea of being able to transmute it into a Pod, pod a Finks into a Biomancer, pod the Finks into a redcap, pod the Redcap into a Lich, and then have an infinite damage combo. It works in Modern to combo out of 3 activations atleast... I don't know if it works in Legacy though.

i have never had any prob with the deadeye in my deck but the hermit just to pop out 4 3/3 with a biomancer in play ur are running nic fit a decks average mana count in play is 6-10 i have never had any problems being at 6 or high mana laying

[GtF]

It's not so much that I'm looking to combo as it seems like an option worth considering when all of the other cards are individually good, having a way to just win through board stalls seems useful, kind of like Melira Pod which in the hands of a competent pilot really only combos in 15-20% of it's games these days... it wins the rest through just spamming value creatures, the main advantage of combo in Melira is it's something you can threaten to force the opponent to make bad plays, like wasting a Lightning Bolt on a Melira which allows a Reveillark to actually win the game. Taking a route like that, a single Finks ends up being a huge threat that the opponent has to interact with, which then opens the path to just win through creatures on the board, otherwise you start to threaten all kinds of crazy things that are bad for the opponent. My biggest worry here is that Finks seems to be 1 power too small to profitably deal with something like a Batterskull, infact my entire decklist is other than the Thragtusk and Frost Titan (though the Strix can also block). I've seen that other lists only run the 1 Finks, and infact only run 2-3 3 drops total. I can't say that it's wrong because of my inexperience but I don't really understand the reasoning.

I can certainly accept that I'm just wrong here as my only experience with Legacy has been crushing fair decks for the past few years with Burn, and in return getting crushed by the unfair decks which are all over the local meta. But I need to see why I'm wrong... why something won't work.

Your suggested combo is certainly faster, but I'm pretty sure pod doesn't stand a chance at being competitive outside of the Nic Fit shell anyways, which means such a thing is going to be 4 colors, or more likely back to Jund, in which case it just seems worse than the scapeshift plan.

The best way to deal with batterskull is to make them discard it with cabal therapy. I wouldn't call blocking and trading with the germ token a profitable interaction, even if kitchen finks could do this. Acidic slime is good because you can slime the skull and when they return it, make them discard it with a flashbacked therapy (along with many other reasons).
Finks is pretty good and I've definitely thought about bumping the number up to 2, but I just haven't found the room since I want so many SB cards for different matchups and Kitchen finks would just be an all-purpose good card. In terms of the way Svknoe and I play the deck it's not really necessary - there's no combo and Baleful Strix does enough work as far as defense and value, for less mana than finks.
So why isn't there a combo? There's two reasons. Svknoe pretty much covered it but the short answer is that the relative power of a card like kitchen finks is a lot less in legacy than it is in modern. Same with Melira, Dimir House Guard, Master Biomancer, etc. Cards really need to be good on their own unless you are a dedicated combo deck. This is related to the second reason: there is so much disruption in legacy and it's all extremely efficient. The baseline deck is RUG delver. It's a good matchup, but only because every card in our deck is devoted to making it good. If you are playing Melira and they daze your kitchen finks or something, all you are left with is a 2/2 for 2, which really is unaccaptable in a format of this power level (I've tried it). Because you see so much of your deck and the games grind out, having even one bad card will really be felt a lot of the time.
I think if you were to try and make a combo deck out of it, you'd have to play a lot more copies of cards like melira, kitchen finks, and sacrifice outlets. That way, at least part of the time you will kill them with the combo. However, I still worry about what will happen the other part of the time.
Modern Pod uses the combo to gain inevitability because it has to, but we have better cards that are more applicable in a wider range of situations. The main ones I'm thinking of are Recurring Nightmare, Pernicious Deed and Grave Titan (and of course Birthing Pod itself). Depending on the matchup, these will win you the game eventually, and are also fine cards to draw on their own (Recurring Nightmare has some requirements but they are almost always fulfilled without extra effort). There have been a few games where I had an active pod going for a long time and still couldn't win. These are pretty frustrating and make me want a combo in there. But, in these games the opponent had total control and any combo piece would have been removed to prevent it, so it wouldn't have helped anyway. If the individual combo cards were stronger on their own, I'd be on board, but in the context of legacy they just aren't.

[Svknoe]

I agree entirely about the disruption. I have not tried playing combo Pod myself. I think that you build does a very good job of playing individually powerful cards, but I still notice how painful it is if one piece of our synergy is taken away.

The line with the Batterskull is very important and I use it often. It feels like our UWR Delver match-up almost hinges on that one trick.

[Qweerios]

Is there any reason why Trinket Mage doesn't see play in BUG Pod? I would see no harm in having a single Sensei's Divining Top and Engineered Explosives in the main along with a few more bullets in the SB such as Pithing Needle, Nihil Spellbomb or Tormod's Crypt, and even Meekstone.

[Svknoe]

I hadn't considered that. If the artifacts are good enough to see play in the main deck, I would welcome Trinket Mage as the third 3 drop. The deck is very tight on space, though. I don't know what I would cut for them.

[GtF]

I hadn't considered that. If the artifacts are good enough to see play in the main deck, I would welcome Trinket Mage as the third 3 drop. The deck is very tight on space, though. I don't know what I would cut for them.

I've thought about top as well, and it seems ok, but is it better than any card you would cut it for? That's the question. Same with Engineered Explosives, which has the benefit over Pernicious Deed of being tutorable with 2 drop + pod + trinket mage, but has the downside of being just generally less powerful, especially in this deck. I don't know if you'd be improving the deck by putting in the trinket package even if it gives you more options.

It could be worth trying out, in which case the cuts would probably be the last abrupt decay, the fleshbag marauder and either an explorer or baleful strix for the trinket mage, EE, and divining top. I'd play Nihil Spellbomb in the board over the spot I was considering playing Surgical extraction in. A pithing needle would also be good. I Probably wouldn't play meekstone even though it's cool because you're relying on Pernicious Deed anyway in the matchups where you'd want it.

[Svknoe]

Cutting Strix and Abrupt Decay seems painful, especially if we are to make room for the fourth Deathrite Shaman. Top seems good, but definitely worse than Brainstorm. Engineered Explosives might be a bit to weak, but I haven't tried it.

I wrote a tournament report for GP Paris today. It is in the Tournament Reports forum: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27665-GP-Paris-10th-place-with-Pod

[Cire_dk]

Cutting Strix and Abrupt Decay seems painful, especially if we are to make room for the fourth Deathrite Shaman. Top seems good, but definitely worse than Brainstorm. Engineered Explosives might be a bit to weak, but I haven't tried it.

I wrote a tournament report for GP Paris today. It is in the Tournament Reports forum: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27665-GP-Paris-10th-place-with-Pod

Great report!! Obviously you are very skillfull at playing this deck. After playing other Nic Fit decks I will start testing your list and see if I have enough skills to be succesfull :smile:

[KntrellCL]

Im trying to port that Knight Pod deck which did top 16 in modern PT to legacy.

so far, I have this

Creatures [21]
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Spike Feeder
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Sun Titan

Spells [16]
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Birthing Pod
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands [23]
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland


I like nic fit shell for pod decks, and reliquary is a good cmc3 which enables depths combos...

[somethingdotdotdot]

I've been tinkering with the depths/stage combo in a bug control shell for a while. Its been decent at closing out games in bug control--but the deck itself is fundamentally weak to certain matchups as well as the clock. Intuition seemed to make the deck too top heavy to smoothly transition into the midgame with certain draws. Then I stumbled onto the nicfit thread again (seems like I come here every 1-2 months to cuz I like the engine so much) and thought that a bug nic-fit shell might be good to incorporate stage/depths into. The pod lists are too jam packed to really change, but the acceleration of explorers seems to be beneficial to the depths strategy (which uses up your land drops as well as putting you back land drops when you try to go off). This a rough draft but just something to toss out there with all of the other nic-fit variants.

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Bayou

1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Intuition is extremely strong because it finds both pieces of the combo+loam to recur it. Primeval titan also finds both parts with its etb trigger. Unsure about jace, but since this is a control deck I figured i might as well toss in 2 to see how he does.

EDIT: I'm also curious how the bug versions of this deck board versus the various combo decks. Mainly sneak, elves, and storm. I'm mostly curious if people board out the explorer package vs sneak since it accelerates them and if you guys ever board the big dudes out.

[Qweerios]

Got 2nd place at a weekly tournament with Junk Pod. Here are the results and list:

2-0 vs. Ur Standstill
2-0 vs. MUD
2-1 vs. Death and Taxes
0-2 vs. Team America

I got lucky vs. MUD (bad plays and bad draws from my opponent). I got unlucky vs. Team America (bad keeps, bad draws, opponent had phenomenal draws)


Creatures (21)
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer

3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze

1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Orzhov Pontiff

1 Murderous Redcap
1 Academy Rector
1 Restoration Angel

1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Others (18)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

3 Abrupt Decay

3 Birthing Pod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Pernicious Deed

Lands (21)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague


So basically I moved Teeg to the SB, added a 3rd Bayou, cut Bone Shredder and re-included the Rector package, and replaced the 4th Explorer with the 4th DRS. I am trying out an Enlightened Tutor board with targets that already work with Pod and Rector.

I was hesitant to move Teeg to the SB but this deck has almost no game vs. Combo decks G1 that I didn't find him worth it. Then again, this might be a mistake.

Adding the 3rd Bayou was welcomed as I often have issues making my land drops after T2-3. Making regular land drops and powering through Wasteland is extremely important.

The 4th DRS is definitely better than the 4th Explorer and I won't be looking back. Getting quick mana and reducing the amount of dead cards is crucial in a deck with such a disparate curve. Also, unlike traditional Nic Fit, Pod requires less mana to function and a single dork coupled with steady land drops is often better and more consistent than blowing up an Explorer. Getting more than 1 Explorer trigger is usually unnecessary.

I won most of my games without a Pod or an Explorer trigger. The enormous GSZ package combined with SFM makes this deck very powerful in the absence of its engines. Drawing an Explorer without a Therapy can be devastating and sometimes, even with a Therapy, the effect is unwanted.

Going forward I would like to re-include a terror creature in the form of Bone Shredder, Nekrataal, or Shriekmaw if possible. I would also like to include a single Birds of Paradise, perhaps instead of the 3rd Explorer. With only 2 Explorers left in the deck, Phyrexian Tower loses some of its appeal.

Any thoughts or comments?

[UseLess]

I've also switched to a Pod version that I gave a spin in a weekly legacy tournament. I agree with Queerios that 4 Veteran might not be necessary and DRS is really good. Interesting to see that others feel the same. What I struggle with at the moment is sideboarding, especially cards that are considered the 'core' of the deck. What match ups do you guys board out (any number of) Cabal Therapy, Veteran Explorer, Pernicious Deed etc. I have the feeling I am not siding out Cabal Therapy enough, as in some matches it is an awful card to draw late game and I might better replace it, even though it has great potential early on. Anyway about the list, I enjoy playing control versions, so no huge amount of creatures for me. The idea is that Nemesis, Thrun and Archmage give access to big targets such as Sigarda without letting the opponent interfere with your creatures (Hexproof/other protection). Overall the deck plays much nicer than just BUGfit with GSZ, so I'm definitely happy I made the switch.

Mainboard:
4x Veteran Explorer
3x Deathrite Shaman
3x Baleful Strix
1x Eternal Witness
1x True-Name Nemesis
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Thragtusk
1x Consecrated Sphinx

3x Birthing Pod
3x Pernicious Deed

4x Brainstorm
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Green Sun's Zenith

2x Jace, The Mind Sculptor

4x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Island
2x Forest
2x Swamp
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Sideboard:
4x Force of Will
2x Negate
2x Swan Song
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Golgari Charm
1x Engineered Plague
1x Glen Elendra Archmage

So far I'm quite happy with this first try. My main concerns are the Maelstrom pulse and Thrun maindeck. Pulse is only really good to kill opposing Jaces and then even if I would draw it, it most likely gets countered... So far it is just a slow and expensive removal spell. Thrun is a nice creature, but provides me with zero value when podding and I would like maybe either a second glen elendra or some other good 4-drop that either does something nice when entering or leaving the battlefield. While Murderous Redcap is often played I cannot yet see its (full) appeal. Isn't there anything better than a shock effect upon entering the battlefied? Jace is sometimes awkward as well, as it costs 4 mana and when counters set me behind pretty far. It is an absolute bomb under the right circumstances, but when I'm behind he hardly helps. Four mana brainstorm isn't that good.
In my matches I missed a bit of control/disruption of my opponents hand, either via discard or counters. I'm now thinking of exchanging Pulse for a Liliana of the Veil but optimally I would want a second Liliana. The only two cards I can think of to remove are an Abrupt Decay or a Veteran Explorer. Switching a Lily for a Jace seems a bit weird, as having only one Jace seems not very consistent. The same can be said about having too much 3-offs in the deck. I'm afraid that cutting a veteran or decay might hurt the consistency of the deck too much. Any suggestions here?

About the SB, I'm going to try envelop instead of Negate as it is one mana cheaper and I want to test Swan Song more as well. I had the unfortunate pleasure to have my storm opponent cabal me, and flashbacked cabal after I had used Swan Song to counter a Ad Nauseam. My deck is rather weak vs discard so giving storm decks more use of their cabals is not very appealing. However it is much better against Sneak attack, so I'd like to test it more.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

I went 3-1 Monday night with Punishing Nic Fit in my local game store's monthly legacy event. I thought I would offer a mini-report. My list is the same as Tao's in the op except -1 wooded foothills +1 Verdant Catacombs, -1 Sensei's Divining Top +1 Forest, -1 Eternal Witness +1 Garruk, Primal Hunter. My sideboard is a bit different, it looks like this.

3 Pyroblast
2 Slaughter Games
1 Golgari Charm
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Extirpate
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize

Round one I played against Miracles, and game one went long. I ultimated liliana, but he still had tons of lands in play. He played jace twice but I killed it both times with punishing fire. He eventually went for a large entreat the angels but I had a pernicious deed in play to take care of them. He was hellbent because of liliana, but we both had tops in play. I found a creature (I think primetime) and eventually killed him with it plus punishing fires after he looked at the top three cards of his deck and saw mostly nothing for a couple consecutive turns. We didn't have much time for game 2, but I brought in 3 pyroblast, 2 sakura, 1 garruk, 2 thoughtseize (probably should have brought in the decay for counterbalance but I didn't see one game one). He kept a one lander with top (I've done this a couple times and have regretted it every time when I top and see no lands). He saw no lands for 2-3 turns and by then I was just way ahead. It went to time but I was in a commanding position.

Round two was another miracles player. This guy is notorious for playing really slowly and taking a long time making decisions (and of course he always plays a control deck in every format). Again, game one was really long but later on nothing was really going right for me. I had a punishing fire for his v-clique and jace, a decay for his counterbalance, but could not find a single creature. I had a top in play and kept spinning it and seeing three lands. I put explorer on top of my deck with stronghold, recurred punishing fire and shot it to shuffle my deck (two turns in a row!) and still saw nothing relevant before I died to a large entreat. When I popped explorer the first time he didn't even fetch any lands because he played three basics and had already fetched them out. We had like 5-8 minutes for game two because of how slowly he played but I had him to 4 life from a thrun before an entreat the angels came and killed me in turns.

Round three was against pox, and I won 2-0. Veteran explorer was the all-star here, and he even cast innocent blood to trigger it. He had stuff like wasteland, smallpox, and sinkhole but it was not relevant when I had 6-7 lands in play already. He played an engineered plague on humans (which kills explorers, shrinks huntmaster, kills e-witness). He had 4 (!) mishra's factory in play and my huntmaster could not really get through, but I killed the one he activated with punishing fire in response to a pump from the only other one he had untapped. The night of soul's betrayal sank my team of garruk primal hunter tokens but eventually I pushed through enough damage to kill him. Game two he played a pithing needle turn 1 naming Garruk, Caller of beasts. I was just like, you mean primal hunter? And he's like, uhhh yeah. I mean I could have just said OK but I had one of him in my deck so I didn't really care and had a laugh about it. Another needle came down naming top but by then I had already triggered explorer and so was just looking for something to kill him. A huntmaster showed up, flipped, and I finished him off with it.

Round four I played against BUG delver. Game one he played a delver on one, and forced my punishing fire on two. I found a grove, and tried to return it, but he stifled. He stifled for a second time, but on the third try I finally got it back to my hand to shoot the delver. by then I was at 8. My favorite part of this matchup was explorer triggering and him getting 0 basics. I played a primeveal titan and fetched two more groves. Killed him with the titan +fires. Game two I got hymned to tourached on 2 and discarded prime time and an e-witness. I had punishing fire for his delver and deathrite and a decay for his goyf. He brainstormed and pondered a bit but found nothing and I finished him off with a huntmaster.

Overall the deck is good, but I feel like I miss maelstrom pulse at times. If anyone has any suggestions on how I can improve the sideboard for a better match-up against stoneblade and miracles that would be nice because that's most of my meta. After playing the deck again on Wednesday I wish I could squeeze in more graveyard hate because I got smashed by dredge.

[Svknoe]

Good to know that you liked the 4th Deathrite over Explorer. I will try it out as well in a couple of tournaments this weekend.

I seldom side out Cabal Therapy. I like it in most match ups. The notable exception is Miracles. Deed pretty much only comes out against combo. Veteran Explorer leaves versus Miracles, and I sometimes shave 1 against combo, if I need the space.

[blindspotxxx]

@Svknoe

I have shaved a fetchland for the 4th DRS. How crucial is having 21 lands? I feel like 21 is too much, also I lack Polluted Deltas so... lol

Tried this deck out yesterday, I had a tough time vs Miracles due to him siding in his Pithing Needle and Grafdigger's Cage to my Birthing Pod.. I also managed to draw 3 of the Pods and a Recurring Nightmare when he placed down his RIP lol

I feel like the Decks sometimes shits on itself when you draw you expensive spells and none of your early spells in the opening hand.

[Svknoe]

I think that cutting a land is not a good way to go. You would leave yourself open to be mana screwed too much. If you havn't got the 9th fetch land, I would play the second Island or the third Bayou (given my list).

Miracles is tough, but beatable. Don't overextend into Terminus, and don't die to Entreat. Playing well with Deed is important. As you mention, their hate permanents can be troublesome. It is difficult finding a balance between destroying them and safe guarding against angles.

I think that that very rarely happens. Correct mulligan decisions and correct use of Brainstorm usually makes the problem go away. If the hand can't reasonably resolve early game spells, it's a mulligan. Almost always shuffle away two actively unwanted cards with Brainstorm.

Edit:

@UseLess

A big problem is that the creature base doesn't work with Pod. This is important for Pod to be good. Pod requires a lot of creatures that generate some advantage all over the curve. I think that 3 at each of cmc 3 and 4 is needed. Sigarda is good, but not worth having when you can't cast her. Having dead cards stuck in your hand is to great a cost.

@Qweerios

I have been very pleased with Shriekmaw. It is good as a Pod target, and very flexible when you draw it. I agree that Phyrexian Tower does not seem that appealing, but I am not so sure about Birds. They are much worse than Deathrite.

[MD.Ghost]

@Boarding: You can easly do -3/4 Veteran Explorer and -4 Cabal Therapy vs Miracle. If you use Recurring Nightmare, you can also switch it with another card if you face Rest in Peace.

@Cutting Lands: It isn't the right Way, Nic Fit need lands and you can't always do an easy Explorer Ramp if your Opponent plays well enough. For a couple of turns, soft counters like Spell Pierce are good enough vs Nic Fit. Sure sometimes it didn't matter and we can also can Deed for 5< but in this case we already in a winning position.
I try Phyrexian Tower at BUG Pod and i like it so far. Additional Sac Outlet (which i like) for Explorer and works good with persist stuff.

@Shriekmaw: You can also try an uncommon Noxious Ghoul if your meta isn't good enough for Shriekmaw. Last time i killed two True Name Nemesis, because my opponent didn't expect this tech. Works also with: Recurring Nightmare, Fleshbag Marrauder, Grave Titan or Phantasmal Image.

@BUG Pod: My main problem is, that you can't have more Game 1 options against Combo (no Slaughter Games/Burning Wish, no Liliana, no Thoughtseize, no Gaddock Teeg). I tried Liliana, Clique and Trinket Mage (with Needle). Liliana is flexible enough, because it also can catch some Creatues, but 1 is very random. Clique can disrupt, but without counters it isn't scary enough game 1. Trinket Mage works good enough vs Sneak Show, Dark Depths and Miracle (Sensei/Jace) but need 2-3 Slots...

[Svknoe]

I think that having a good game 1 versus combo is going to cost us more than it is worth. Post board is pretty favourable. BUG Pod has by far the best combo match up of the nic fit decks that I have played (rector, scapeshift, p fire, pod). I am no more concerned about facing reanimator than jund, for instance.

[KntrellCL]

My Junk POD plays Teeg main and plays 3 thalia 1 canonist 4 thoughtseize in SB, making my combo matches much easier!

[Svknoe]

I have been wondering how good combo match up Junk Pod has. Is it any good? For me playing BUG Pod, combo overall seems positive.

[Qweerios]

@Svknoe,

Birds of Paradise doesn't compete with DRS. I am trying out a single BoP over the 3rd Explorer giving me 4 DRS 2 Explorers and 1 BoP. The more I play this deck, the less I want to draw Explorers and the more I want to draw T1 mana dorks.

I also cut the Phyrexian Tower and I am trying a Shriekmaw instead. I now have 20 colored lands (8 fetch, 5 basics, 6 duals, 1 Arbor) and 4 GSZ, 4 DRS, 1 BoP to kick start the deck.

As far as combo matchups go for Junk Pod, they have been very good for me. I recently beat T.E.S. 2-0 back when I played Teeg mainboard. I also played 6 games vs. SnT and won 3 out of 4 postboard games. Game 1 vs. SnT is almost hopeless. Having a Teeg mainboard goes a long way against Storm and High Tide during G1. Reanimator and Dredge are the combo decks I find the easiest.

The Miracles matchup for Junk Pod is better than the other Pod decks I have played. Having access to Choke, Pithing Needles, and a pair of Lilies postboard is a great asset. Rector, Pod, Enlightened Tutor, and GSZ put in a lot of work and I can easily side out my 2-3 Explorers and do a great job on mana development while I replace Therapies with Thoughtseize.

[DragoFireheart]

Some lists have blue.

Why not play True-Name Nemesis in the list?

[GtF]

Some lists have blue.

Why not play True-Name Nemesis in the list?

If you're talking about pod lists, typically you want your creatures to generate some kind of value either when they enter or leave play, so that if you pod them away, they've done something already. True-name is just supposed to get into play and start attacking, which is not really what the deck is about. It's basically a control deck, and the creatures are expendable pieces that gain control of the game while also incidentally helping to win by virtue of having power/toughness. Without equipment, True-name doesn't really give you any control, except by being a really good blocker, but the pod lists already play 4X baleful strix to do that. So even though it's a good card, it doesn't really fit with the game plan of the deck.

I won't speak about the non-pod blue lists except to say that one reason not to play TNN is that since they are ramping so much, true-name might just be a worse alternative to the big creatures you could ramp into.

[Nils Gutiérrez]

[QUOTE=somethingdotdotdot;796814]I've been tinkering with the depths/stage combo in a bug control shell for a while. Its been decent at closing out games in bug control--but the deck itself is fundamentally weak to certain matchups as well as the clock. Intuition seemed to make the deck too top heavy to smoothly transition into the midgame with certain draws. Then I stumbled onto the nicfit thread again (seems like I come here every 1-2 months to cuz I like the engine so much) and thought that a bug nic-fit shell might be good to incorporate stage/depths into. The pod lists are too jam packed to really change, but the acceleration of explorers seems to be beneficial to the depths strategy (which uses up your land drops as well as putting you back land drops when you try to go off). This a rough draft but just something to toss out there with all of the other nic-fit variants.

OOOH i have a similar build! here is my list:

1 Primeval Titan
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
3 Trinket Mage
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Expedition Map
3 Living Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Intuition
1 Underground Sea
1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 1 Thespian's Stage
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Fleshbag Marauder
SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb

I've only taken it in a tournament and got it into the final!